The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 iSteve BlogTeasers
My IQ FAQ
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments

Way back in 2007, I wrote a Frequently Asked Questions list about IQ for VDARE. I’m sure it’s somewhat out of date by now, but here are some excerpts, slightly edited:

Q. Is IQ really all that important in understanding how the world works?

A. In an absolute sense, no. Human behavior is incredibly complicated, and no single factor explains more than a small fraction of it.

In a relative sense, yes. Compared to all the countless other factors that influence the human world, IQ ranks up near the top of the list. …

Q. Isn’t character more important than intelligence?

A. I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence. (Of course, when it comes to making money, less endearing personality traits like aggressiveness also play a big role, but we’ll leave that aside for now.)

Can I quantify that? Well, that’s where things get tricky …

Q. So why not test for work ethic and the like instead of IQ?

A. We do test for it, in many different ways. Consider the process of applying to college. The two most important elements in the application are high school GPA and the SAT or ACT score. The SAT and ACT are more or less an IQ test, while high school GPA is driven by a combination of IQ and work ethic.

But demonstrating work ethic via GPA is a time-consuming prospect for the applicant … and even for the admissions committee. …

In contrast, the SAT takes only a few hours, while the widely used Wonderlic IQ test (mandated by the NFL for all pro football prospects) takes only 12 minutes. …

Q. So, do IQ tests predict an individual’s fate?

A. In an absolute sense, not very accurately at all. Indeed, any single person’s destiny is beyond the capability of all the tests ever invented to predict with much accuracy.

Q. So, if IQ isn’t all that accurate for making predictions about an individual, why even think of using it to compare groups, which are much more complicated?

A. That sounds sensible, but it’s exactly backwards. The larger the sample size, the more the statistical noise washes out. …

Q. So, you’re saying that IQ testing can tell us more about group differences than about individual differences?

A. If the sample sizes are big enough and all else is equal, a higher IQ group will virtually always outperform a lower IQ group on any behavioral metric.

One of the very few positive traits not correlated with IQ is musical rhythm—which is a reason high IQ rock stars like Mick Jagger, Pete Townshend, and David Bowie tell Drummer Jokes.

Of course, everything else is seldom equal. A more conscientious group may well outperform a higher IQ group. On the other hand, conscientiousness, like many virtues, is positively correlated with IQ, so IQ tests work surprisingly well.

Q. Wait a minute, does that mean that maybe some of the predictive power of IQ comes not from intelligence itself, but from virtues associated with it like conscientiousness?

A. Most likely. But perhaps smarter people are more conscientious because they are more likely to foresee the bad consequences of slacking off. It’s an interesting philosophical question, but, in a practical sense, so what? We have a test that can predict behavior. That’s useful.

Q. Can one number adequately describe a person’s intelligence?

A. Sort of. …

Q. How can something be true and not true at the same time?

A. How can the glass be half-full and half-empty at the same time? Most things about IQ testing are partly true and partly false at the same time. That’s the nature of anything inherently statistical, which is most of reality.

Humans are used to legalistic reasoning that attempts to draw bright lines between exclusive categories. For example, you are either old enough to vote or you aren’t. There’s no gray area. But the law is artificial and unlike most of reality. Many people have a hard time dealing with that fact, especially when it comes to thinking about IQ.

Q. Enough epistemology! How can you rationalizing summing up something as multifaceted as intelligence in a single number?

A. Think about SAT scores. Your total score says something about you, while breaking out your Math and Verbal scores separately says more. A kid who gets a total of 1400 out of 1600 (Math + Verbal) is definitely college material, while a kid who gets a 600 isn`t. That’s the big picture. For the fine detail, like which college to apply to, it helps to look at the subscores. …

A few years ago, the SAT added a third score, Writing, but many colleges aren’t sure how useful it is, and there’s some sentiment for dropping the Writing test as not worth the extra time or cost. In other words, there are diminishing marginal returns to more detail. [The College Board has since dropped the Writing test from the SAT.] …

Q. Is IQ hereditary?

A. At the moment, we only have a vague idea of which genes affect IQ, but the data are pouring in. James Watson figures no more than 15 years until the main genes driving IQ scores are nailed down. It could be faster.

In the mean time, we have a lot of circumstantial evidence, such as twin and adoption studies. Almost all of it points toward IQ having a sizable genetic component.

Q. What does it mean to say IQ has a genetic component?

A. It means that identical twins tend to be more similar in intelligence than fraternal twins, who are more alike than first cousins, and so forth. That appears to be true.

Q. So, everybody in the same family gets the same IQ?

A. No. Think about siblings that you know and you’ll likely notice moderate differences in intelligence among them—unless they are identical twins (and thus have identical genes).

Q. Is IQ solely determined by genes?

A. No. Consider, for example, the need for micronutrient supplementation. For example, here in America, manufacturers have been adding iodine to salt and iron to flour since before WWII to combat medical syndromes (such as cretinism) that lower IQ. In poor countries around the world, hundreds of millions of children still suffer cognitively from lack of iodine and iron. …

Q. Are there differences in average SAT scores among racial groups?

A. Yes. Ashkenazi (European) Jews appear to average the highest—maybe around 110-112—followed by Northeast Asians (105), and then by gentile white Europeans and North Americans (100). The world mean is around 90, Hispanic-Americans are at 89. African-Americans traditionally average around 85 and Africans in Sub-Saharan Africa around 70.

Q. Aren’t all IQ researchers white supremacists who just want to show their race has the highest IQ?

A. If they are, they’re doing an awfully lousy job of it. (See above.)

Q. How can anybody talk about race and IQ when race doesn’t exist?

A. It’s funny how these objections don’t come up in regard to affirmative action. Scientists gather race-related data the same way colleges and bureaucrats hand out affirmative action goodies. They let people self-identify.

I spent a lot of time years ago trying to prove that affirmative action is unworkable because there’s too much overlap between the races to decide which race somebody belongs to, but I eventually gave up because, at least at present, the situation’s good enough for government (and scientific) work. …

Q. Are global differences in IQ caused solely by genetics?

A. No. As I wrote in VDARE.COM back in 2002:

“A clear example of how a bad environment can hurt IQ can be seen in the IQ scores for sub-Saharan African countries. … This suggests that the harshness of life in Africa might be cutting ten points or more off African IQ scores.”

Q. Are IQ tests biased against African-Americans?

A. Not in the most important sense of predictive validity. White and black Army recruits with 100 IQs on the Armed Forces Qualification Test, for instance, will perform about equally well on the job.

Any kind of non-functional bias against minorities in test design has been radioactive for decades, so all the questions that were “unfair” to minorities were removed long ago. …

Creating an IQ test on which there’s no black-white gap has been the Holy Grail of test designers for 40 years. Any test company that could pull it off would make a fortune, because every school district in the country would dump their current test and switch to the “non-racist” test. It’s been attempted repeatedly, but it can’t be done without destroying the test’s predictive powers.

Q. But I see all these black people on TV being highly entertaining. They look pretty lively upstairs. Could IQ tests be missing something?

A. Yes. IQ test questions, by their nature, must have fixed, objective answers. If African Americans are better at subjective, improvisatory responses than they are at objective problem-solving, then IQ will fail to predict fully their patterns of success in the real world. And, indeed, we see much evidence for that every time we turn on the TV (e.g., Oprah). …

Q. What’s the real story behind the crushing of James Watson?

A. The Establishment knows that evidence is piling up for the Bell Curve theory that they’ve denounced so vociferously for so long. So they are just trying to postpone the day of reckoning on which it becomes widely understood that they are fools, liars, and smear-artists by silencing anyone like Watson who speaks up. The frenzy will only increase as the genome data comes flooding in.

Q. What can we say for sure about racial gaps?

A. That they’ll be around for a long time.

Say it’s discovered in 2008 that the entire cause of the black-white IQ gap is some hitherto unknown micronutrient needed by pregnant women that African-Americans don’t get enough of, and a crash program is put into place immediately to solve the problem. If that happened, the IQ gap among working-age adults still wouldn’t disappear until the 2070s.

So whether the racial IQ gaps are genetic or not, they’re going to be around for many decades. And we need to understand them. …

Q. So what can be done?

A. People who understand reality reasonably well can figure out many small, incremental changes that will make us all better off. In contrast, powerful people who don’t know what the hell they are doing will tend to make us all worse off. …

You can read the whole thing there.

 
114 Comments to "My IQ FAQ"
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
    []
  1. 22pp22 says:

    Have you seen this article in the Guardian about the changing distribution of wealth in US cities?

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/may/17/america-geography-wealth-shrinking-urban-middle-class-visualised

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    /isteve/my-iq-faq/#comment-1878043
    More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  2. Pat Boyle says:

    This is all very sad. IQ tests are a force for good in the world. But because there are millions of blacks in America who have such low IQs, there has grown up an organized resistance to mental measurement.

    When I was in Junior High I was a not very bright little fat kid. All around me were the taller and hairier early bloomers. I was in a lot of fights. But I outgrew my competition. By the time I was six two the tough guys were less eager to pick on me. I kept growing until I was in my mid twenties when I reached six four.

    I was never in the ‘smart’ track in Junior High or early in High School either, but I began to change. I knew I was changing because of standardized tests. Every time I took a test I seemed to do better than I had the time before. I started getting in the high ninetieth percentiles on all the general ability tests. That changed my perception of self. I would look around the classroom and think – ‘I’m the smartest person in the room’. That’s what the tests revealed and I believed them.

    Public schools have one overriding virtue. A public classroom gives you your first idea as to where you rank in the great competition of life. I had always seen myself as in the lower half, but standardized tests gave me a different perspective.

    IQ tests revealed to me the person I was becoming to be.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    I haven't seen much comment on studies regarding speed of development and its effect on outcomes. I suspect it's important. Without a signal to reward developing intelligence and encourage personal investment, many bright kids would get buried.
    , @Stan Adams
    Something tells me that it is not the low-IQ blacks but the high-IQ Jews who are the driving force behind the kiboshing of HBD awareness.

    (Useless trivia: It seems that kibosh comes from English slang, not Yiddish. The earliest citation is in Dickens. Who knew?)

    I was tall and hairy in middle school (and afterward), but my development was totally out of whack. I hit all of the early milestones well ahead of schedule. I was an only child, so my only real playmate was my cousin, two years my senior. (She was an only child, as well.) I did not attend pre-K.

    In kindergarten, I exhibited severe behavioral difficulties. (The principal told my mother that he'd never seen a more difficult child.) At the age of five, I was tested and was deemed eligible for a special program for gifted* students with behavioral and emotional problems. I attended this program from first through fifth grade. From sixth through eighth grade, I went to a "special" middle school.

    For my secondary education, I attended a "special" program at a normal high school. I was never fully mainstreamed, but by my senior year I only had one "special" class.

    In the halcyon days of my youth, I was a tall, hairy, fat kid with horrendous acne - huge boils all over my face and (especially) my back.

    Once, on a dare, I lifted up my shirt to a group of kids. The girls squealed so loudly that a teacher passing by assumed I'd exposed myself and reported me to the assistant principal. (I almost got in serious trouble, believe it or not.)

    Accutane was a Godsend.

    So, in summary, I wasn't bullied, but I wasn't dated, either. I was a freak - a "good" freak, I guess - and I spent a lot of time with freaks. Even though I was a loner, I felt a certain camaraderie with my fellow misfits.

    My social calendar was empty, so I spent a lot of time reading. It made me into the trivia hoarder I am today.

    After graduating, I obtained a bachelor's degree in a non-STEM field. I was an extremely lazy student, and I graduated cum laude. (The whole thing struck me as a bit of a joke, really.)

    I drifted for a good long while after graduating. Having my life micromanaged by my mother and my (wealthy) grandmother didn't help.

    *The cutoff for "gifted" was 130. My kindergarten score was in the high 140s, or so I've been told. This was in the late '80s, mind you.
  3. Ivy says:

    Are there random variations in some identical twin genes that may not be observable at first glance? If so, how do those present? Is there a threshold or standard definition of ‘identical’ to address that more completely?

    I grew up with several twins in the neighborhood and school, and they had slight differences in appearance and behavior. Some were right-handed while others had one of each, for example.

    Read More
  4. HBD Guy says:

    Hi Steve: Would you please write an update on this posting? Thanks…

    Read More
  5. Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of “junk food” (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT (“food stamp”) cards.

    I live in a “vibrantly diverse” city. I shop at a local Yemeni-owned “mom and pop” store. I see African-Americans (but not exclusively African-Americans) purchasing “junk food” with EBT cards. I see them feeding it to their children on the bus. It is painful to see. In the “food desert” that is my neighborhood, it is hard for a person without a motor vehicle to get to the modern, 2-acre-footprint megamarkets where the more affluent shop for their fresh romaine lettuce and sugar-free quinoa cereal. Although I see the virtues of the libertarian perspective, this is an area where the government should step in. They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    If children must have a good education, then they must also have access to good nutrition. The former depends, to a great degree, upon the latter. Their mothers, often so poorly educated themselves, need to have high-I.Q. persons gently force them towards more intelligent nutritional choices.

    But first, we have to admit that there is such a thing as I.Q. in the first place!

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    It seems to me like one thing you could do would be to just make it so you couldn't spend EBT money on junk food. Then, if the stores there wanted to keep that EBT money coming in, they wouldn't have much choice but to stock real food.

    One question, though.

    I see them feeding it to their children on the bus.

    If you live in the same neighborhoods as these people, and ride the same buses, how do you manage to buy better stuff? Do the buses not go out to the normal grocery stores?
    , @donut
    "Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of “junk food” (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT (“food stamp”) cards."
    I think you have it backwards . In America today , the land of the great giveaway , they don't have a low IQs because they are malnourished , they just for the most part have low IQs . Just a guess but I suspect that while malnourishment may effect the brains functioning it it doesn't effect IQ .

    During and between the two world wars vast parts of Europe were subjected to prolonged famine . Did their IQs drop as a result ? For just one example see : "The Turnip Winter"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip_Winter

    Yet that generation of malnourished children grew up to accomplish remarkable things .
    , @27 year old
    In my city, EBT can be used at the farmers' market. Hispanics seem to take advantage of it.
  6. Romanian says: • Website

    A very useful and informative FAQ, especially for my redpilling.

    Off topic – a profile pf Richard Spencer in The Atlantic reveals the “rubbing their faces in diversity” aspect of multiculti psychology.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/his-kampf/524505/

    With one major-party presidential nominee using his nomenclature, and the other accused of supporting his ideas, Spencer got famous, and he moved into an apartment in Northern Virginia. (He continues to live part-time in Whitefish.)
    A number of mortified St. Mark’s alumni conspired to speak out against him. Eight from our class of 69, myself among them, wrote an anti-Spencer statement on a crowdsourced fund-raising website, supporting resettlement of refugees in Dallas—a cause we chose because we knew it would irritate him. By December, after videographers from The Atlantic filmed Spencer receiving Nazi salutes and saying “Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!,” the school community had kicked in more than $60,000.

    That Hail thing really was a political dud, both badly thought out and blown out of proportion.

    PS I have come to dislike this overly descriptive form of journalism where you discuss the weather, irrelevant side activities and what the other guy was wearing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Eight from our class of 69, myself among them, wrote an anti-Spencer statement on a crowdsourced fund-raising website, supporting resettlement of refugees in Dallas—a cause we chose because we knew it would irritate him.
     
    I guess it's nice to see that people have become more honest about their motives than they were during the whole school busing debate.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That Hail thing really was a political dud, both badly thought out and blown out of proportion.
     
    Nah. A bit of mutual teeth-flashing is good. Really helps distill positions on both sides. Sleepwalking fence-balancers, awake!
  7. If there is very little positive from the nurture side, and nurture plays a role in IQ, how much improvement can a person make under the right circumstances? What difference does a five or ten point difference make, and is it as big of a deal higher up on the scale? Is five points more of a difference between 80 and 85 than between 100 and 105? How does the scale work?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Interesting questions.

    I think your "how much improvement can a person make under the right circumstances?" is what we really should care about regarding environment. The problem is we don't really know (either how much or how best to accomplish it). It's important to keep in mind we are usually talking about relative to a "typical" environment. I think relative to a median first world environment there is probably not too much room for improvement. Obviously dysfunctional environments are another matter. One thing making this hard to study is that dysfunctional environments tend to correlate with dysfunctional people.

    Regarding how the IQ scale works, see reference 18 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification#cite_note-IQordinal-18

    There are some attempts to come up with a proper ratio scale for IQ. For example, see Dr. Thompson's comments about the Coding subtest at http://www.unz.com/jthompson/iq-brain-map/

    P.S. The Flynn effect and corresponding changes in height are good examples for how much improvement WAS possible, but it seems that both are plateauing.

  8. I remember very clear reading the VDARE post of the article.
    I tried to print it for giving to my colleagues.
    Their reaction (without even reading): “Do you know that VDARE is white supremacist publication ?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clark Westwood

    Their reaction (without even reading): “Do you know that VDARE is white supremacist publication ?”
     
    Maybe Steve should add that question to the FAQ. His imagined interlocutor seems like the kind of person who would ask that early on.
  9. Q. What’s the real story behind the crushing of James Watson?

    A. The Establishment knows that evidence is piling up for the Bell Curve theory that they’ve denounced so vociferously for so long. So they are just trying to postpone the day of reckoning on which it becomes widely understood that they are fools, liars, and smear-artists by silencing anyone like Watson who speaks up. The frenzy will only increase as the genome data comes flooding in.

    I disagree. The Establishment are more than capable of ignoring reality for as long as they want. If they don’t like a particular point of view, they can banish it from tv, newspapers, and magazines. Who’s going to hold them accountable? The fools, liars, and smear artists will continue to spread disinformation for as long as they continue to control the bullhorn.

    Americans have this mistaken idea that they live in a country with a “free press” and “democracy.” In reality, neither exist anymore. The ruling class decides what will be shown on tv and printed in the papers/magazines. The ruling class also decide what policies will be enacted(immigration, trade deals, wars, financialization, etc.) without any real input from the public, using sham elections (“democracy”) to fool the public into thinking “your vote matters.”

    “Data” and “evidence” don’t matter. In a one-party state, what matters is who holds the power.

    Read More
  10. @Immigrant from former USSR
    I remember very clear reading the VDARE post of the article.
    I tried to print it for giving to my colleagues.
    Their reaction (without even reading): "Do you know that VDARE is white supremacist publication ?"

    Their reaction (without even reading): “Do you know that VDARE is white supremacist publication ?”

    Maybe Steve should add that question to the FAQ. His imagined interlocutor seems like the kind of person who would ask that early on.

    Read More
  11. res says:
    @OilcanFloyd
    If there is very little positive from the nurture side, and nurture plays a role in IQ, how much improvement can a person make under the right circumstances? What difference does a five or ten point difference make, and is it as big of a deal higher up on the scale? Is five points more of a difference between 80 and 85 than between 100 and 105? How does the scale work?

    Interesting questions.

    I think your “how much improvement can a person make under the right circumstances?” is what we really should care about regarding environment. The problem is we don’t really know (either how much or how best to accomplish it). It’s important to keep in mind we are usually talking about relative to a “typical” environment. I think relative to a median first world environment there is probably not too much room for improvement. Obviously dysfunctional environments are another matter. One thing making this hard to study is that dysfunctional environments tend to correlate with dysfunctional people.

    Regarding how the IQ scale works, see reference 18 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification#cite_note-IQordinal-18

    There are some attempts to come up with a proper ratio scale for IQ. For example, see Dr. Thompson’s comments about the Coding subtest at http://www.unz.com/jthompson/iq-brain-map/

    P.S. The Flynn effect and corresponding changes in height are good examples for how much improvement WAS possible, but it seems that both are plateauing.

    Read More
  12. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of "junk food" (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT ("food stamp") cards.

    I live in a "vibrantly diverse" city. I shop at a local Yemeni-owned "mom and pop" store. I see African-Americans (but not exclusively African-Americans) purchasing "junk food" with EBT cards. I see them feeding it to their children on the bus. It is painful to see. In the "food desert" that is my neighborhood, it is hard for a person without a motor vehicle to get to the modern, 2-acre-footprint megamarkets where the more affluent shop for their fresh romaine lettuce and sugar-free quinoa cereal. Although I see the virtues of the libertarian perspective, this is an area where the government should step in. They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    If children must have a good education, then they must also have access to good nutrition. The former depends, to a great degree, upon the latter. Their mothers, often so poorly educated themselves, need to have high-I.Q. persons gently force them towards more intelligent nutritional choices.

    But first, we have to admit that there is such a thing as I.Q. in the first place!

    They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    It seems to me like one thing you could do would be to just make it so you couldn’t spend EBT money on junk food. Then, if the stores there wanted to keep that EBT money coming in, they wouldn’t have much choice but to stock real food.

    One question, though.

    I see them feeding it to their children on the bus.

    If you live in the same neighborhoods as these people, and ride the same buses, how do you manage to buy better stuff? Do the buses not go out to the normal grocery stores?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Thank you for your reply. Your first point is well taken; the Law of Supply and Demand says that if there are EBT dollars out there in the hands of purchasers, an enterprising capitalist (not a dirty word in my book) will step in to meet customer demand by supplying produce.

    As to your second question, I have the great good fortune (perhaps I was a nice guy in a previous incarnation) of having been born Caucasian (that is my biologically-assigned racial designation as well as my chosen cis-identification), and I have a girlfriend who is also Caucasian who has a car. (She's an MRI tech at a hospital). She drives me to Wegmans, our local megamarket chain, where we shop for good food on weekends.

  13. donut says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of "junk food" (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT ("food stamp") cards.

    I live in a "vibrantly diverse" city. I shop at a local Yemeni-owned "mom and pop" store. I see African-Americans (but not exclusively African-Americans) purchasing "junk food" with EBT cards. I see them feeding it to their children on the bus. It is painful to see. In the "food desert" that is my neighborhood, it is hard for a person without a motor vehicle to get to the modern, 2-acre-footprint megamarkets where the more affluent shop for their fresh romaine lettuce and sugar-free quinoa cereal. Although I see the virtues of the libertarian perspective, this is an area where the government should step in. They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    If children must have a good education, then they must also have access to good nutrition. The former depends, to a great degree, upon the latter. Their mothers, often so poorly educated themselves, need to have high-I.Q. persons gently force them towards more intelligent nutritional choices.

    But first, we have to admit that there is such a thing as I.Q. in the first place!

    “Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of “junk food” (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT (“food stamp”) cards.”
    I think you have it backwards . In America today , the land of the great giveaway , they don’t have a low IQs because they are malnourished , they just for the most part have low IQs . Just a guess but I suspect that while malnourishment may effect the brains functioning it it doesn’t effect IQ .

    During and between the two world wars vast parts of Europe were subjected to prolonged famine . Did their IQs drop as a result ? For just one example see : “The Turnip Winter”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip_Winter

    Yet that generation of malnourished children grew up to accomplish remarkable things .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eustace Tilley (not)
    No, I don't have it backwards. I.Q. is determined by multiple factors, genetics being a very important one and early nutrition (which affects brain development) being another. Culture (e.g., the "Mozart Effect", which is the effect upon the developing brain of the young child in which it struggles to make aesthetic sense of the complex and interwoven melodies and harmonies inherent in European Classical music, and grows in ability as a result) is another.

    The Turnip Winter example applies to starving adults. Their brains have already formed. But I meant to point out that the developing brain benefits from good nutrition as well as from good genetics.

    It is salutary for Sailer and Murray and Watson to point out that I.Q. is largely determined by genetics. That's true and important. But the nutritional component to I.Q. means that society can at least do something positive to ameliorate the heartlessness of the "Blind Watchmaker" who passes out his genetic riches so unfairly, Einstein and Mozart winning the genetic lottery and poor Mike Brown being a loser. Since we are forced to live in the same nation as the genetic losers, since we have to pay for police to arrest them and jails to confine them, the least we can do for them and for ourselves is to help them both in utero and post utero.

  14. Q. Isn’t character more important than intelligence?

    A. I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence. (Of course, when it comes to making money, less endearing personality traits like aggressiveness also play a big role, but we’ll leave that aside for now.)

    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn’t as important as everyone here thinks. I’d attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence. Why do you think the Tiger Cubs are so successful? IQ?

    Being ruthless, devious, sociopathic, and cunning matters a lot too. If you want to succeed at office politics, you need to be good at backstabbing and rear end kissing. Trust me, that correlates far, far more with managment-track promotions than IQ. I’d even guess that IQ might have a slightly negative correlation with getting the management promotion.

    If you’re an entrepreneur and work for yourself, ruthlessness and deviousness can be important too. You can’t be afraid to work your employees as hard as neccessary (while paying as little as possible) and fire them remorseley when they become unneeded. When the time comes to take someone to court (former employee, creditor, supplier, business partner, customer), you have to be willing to do that rather than “forgive” them. Most good entrepreneurs know how to use accounting regulations to their advantage (ie declare every meal a “business lunch” and mark it as a “business expense”).

    Here’s another example. Let’s say you’re a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this. If you want to understand how common this practice is, I suggest this article about the profiteering doctors of McAllen, Texas.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum

    Since doctors are so trusted, they can use their reputation to shield themselves from public scrutiny. It takes a certain degree of ruthlessness and sociopathy to do that.

    Lots of affluent people (entrepreneurs, corporate employees, brokers, etc.) become successful through sales (what’s also called “rainmaking”). How do you become a successful salesman? One way is by “overselling” (lying/exaggerating) the benefits of your good or service. You have to be willing to close, even when you know your product isn’t right for the client or might even make the client worse off. Politicians are particularly adept at this “My fellow Americans, this increase in H-1B visas will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs.”

    Question: Names 2 qualities that describe an honest saleman.
    Answer: Unemployed and broke

    I’m not saying that you neccessarily need machiavellian qualities to get ahead in life, but those qualities can certainly help. Especially if you want to become very affluent/successful. I’d guess those qualities are more important to success than IQ.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn’t as important as everyone here thinks. I’d attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence.

    There is definitely something to this, I agree. I think lots of people know people who did really well in school who didn't really go on to accomplish a whole lot. I hate to say it, but I put myself in this category.

    On the other hand, I do OK for myself, and am pretty much content with how things have turned out. Not everybody really wants to be a millionaire.

    But I can't help but think that one of the main issues is that, while there are a lot of underachievers out there, they tend not to fall into a lot of the traps that genuinely dumb people do.

    I also knew a lot of people in school who seemed dumb as dirt, but still did their best and were pretty much OK people. These are the ones who seemed like, once they grew up, they still wound up on drugs, or unemployed for long periods, or just lost all their money in a hundred stupid little ways over the years.

    So while it's certainly true that having a high IQ doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to set the world on fire, having a low one genuinely makes it a lot harder not to screw things up. Ambition and persistence are good things, but it sure seems like you actually need a lot MORE ambition and persistence than you would otherwise if you're on the lower part of the totem pole.

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Career track also has a strong influence on income.

    Blogger HalfSigma (now known as LionoftheBlogsphere) found that after controlling for education, there's no IQ-income correlation. Actually, at the high-end of the IQ range, the correlation becomes NEGATIVE.

    He found that the main benefit of high-IQ is that it allows you to obtain credentials neccessary for entering a high-paying career track. However, once you enter that track, your success doesn't correlate with IQ. So if you take an average high-IQ college-graduate and compare him against an average equally-credential low-IQ college-graduate, there'd be no difference in income.

    So it's the career track (and the credentials for entry) that matter for income. Not your actual IQ. IQ is neccessary only as a means to get the credential.

    This suggests that if you're a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    This also suggests that if you're high-IQ , you should definitely keep accumulating credentials. Dropping out (to start a business or work for someone) in the hopes of being successful is, probably, a bad idea.

    For years, lots of HBD posters have been giving the advice that kids should skip college to start their own business or be a blue collar tradesman. They've often claimed that even high IQ people "don't need college" since their IQ is high.

    The reality is that everyone should attempt to maximize their educational credentials, regardless of their abilities or IQ. That's the rational decision if you want to get ahead in today's America.

    Charles Murray wrote an article about how lower-IQ high school students should not attend college and would economically be better off learning a trade. This is horrible advice. Unfortunately, you see a lot of this type of thing on some HBD sites.

    Someone wrote a detailed analysis of how college still makes financial sense even for low-IQ people.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/09/college-is-still-best-pay-off.php

    By the way, there's this mistaken view that labor market are highly efficient and select the best person for the job. This is incorrect. Most firms screen out people without the proper degree. Even if you have the right work experience and can demonstrate proficiency/skills, lots of employers will refuse to hire you.

    Is this rational? No, but most employers have inefficient HR departments and irrational hiring policies. This is a reality of the modern job market. Elite employers are especially irrational. For example, if you apply to a Venture Capital firm, they won't hire you if you don't have an Ivy League BA or MBA. Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm's investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let's say PHD from MIT), they'll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it's how the labor market works.

    Amy Chua-style parents, who start plotting their child's success early in life, can be very helpful in getting into the right university, which then helps getting into a lucrative career track.

    In conclusion, if you want to be successful, get good educational credentials and get on a good career track. Don't worry about your IQ, it's really not that important.

    What are the good career tracks? Medicine and dentistry. Extremely high income and roughly 0% unemployment.

    If you're willing to work super long hours, finance (i-banking, hedge funds, private equity, venture capital), BIG LAW (top law firms), and elite management consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain) can be very lucrative too. Of course, those elite finance/consulting/BIGLAW firms hire exclusively from Ivy Leagues.

    If you've missed the MD/DDS and finance/consulting/BIGLAW trains, the next best path is govt work. Govt workers are surprisingly well-paid, the benefits are good, the job security is high, promotions are easy, competition is minimal, and you can be lazy without getting fired. Also, you get to mix around with powerful people, which brings social status. Firefighting (especially in Southern California) has to be one of the best govt jobs available. For example, the average Orange County firefighter makes $140,000. Not bad.

    Summary:

    -Credentials and Career Track decide your economic success, not your IQ
    -It makes sense for everyone to grind away to maximize their IQ credentials
    -HBDers who tell people to skip college are giving bad advice
    -Even low-IQ people should get college degrees
    -Ignore Charles Murray and listen to Amy Chua
    -Once you get a college degree, you can enter a well-paying career track and make a lot of $$$
    -Healthcare (MD, DDS) and Ivy League careers (finance, consulting, BIG LAW) pay really well
    -Howevever, if you missed the train, go work for the govt. As John Derbyshire frequently says, "get a government job."
    -SoCal firefighters have it particularly good
    , @Autochthon
    This comment merits the famed gold box.
    , @larry lurker

    Let’s say you’re a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this.
     
    Or they'll do a medically necessary procedure in an unnecessarily expensive way.

    In college I had two small cysts removed. For the first one I was referred to an Indian-American guy (no accent) in his 40's. He had me put under general anesthesia and performed the procedure in one of the university hospital's operating rooms with at least four people assisting him. The procedure, covered by my student health insurance, cost $13,000.

    A couple of years later I needed the same procedure done again - another small cyst on the same part of my body. This time I was referred to a different doctor, a Korean-American guy, maybe late 20's. He was appalled, but not all that surprised, when I told him that last time I'd had this done I'd been put under general anesthesia. He injected the affected area with lidocaine and did the procedure in five minutes with one nursing assistant present, in-office. I think the bill was between $250 and $300.

  15. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Steve, your 2007 FAQ is great and, like I mentioned a few times before, you publishing “The Best of iSteve” will likely make a best seller. Still, you have to realize that the FAQ in its present form is preaching to the choir. To the uninitiated or, worse, PC-inundated, it most likely looks like just another opinion, not much more than that. I think you’d do better if you expand/beef up each answer. Then the FAQ will be golden.

    Read More
  16. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Romanian
    A very useful and informative FAQ, especially for my redpilling.

    Off topic - a profile pf Richard Spencer in The Atlantic reveals the "rubbing their faces in diversity" aspect of multiculti psychology.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/his-kampf/524505/


    With one major-party presidential nominee using his nomenclature, and the other accused of supporting his ideas, Spencer got famous, and he moved into an apartment in Northern Virginia. (He continues to live part-time in Whitefish.)
    A number of mortified St. Mark’s alumni conspired to speak out against him. Eight from our class of 69, myself among them, wrote an anti-Spencer statement on a crowdsourced fund-raising website, supporting resettlement of refugees in Dallas—a cause we chose because we knew it would irritate him. By December, after videographers from The Atlantic filmed Spencer receiving Nazi salutes and saying “Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!,” the school community had kicked in more than $60,000.
     
    That Hail thing really was a political dud, both badly thought out and blown out of proportion.

    PS I have come to dislike this overly descriptive form of journalism where you discuss the weather, irrelevant side activities and what the other guy was wearing.

    Eight from our class of 69, myself among them, wrote an anti-Spencer statement on a crowdsourced fund-raising website, supporting resettlement of refugees in Dallas—a cause we chose because we knew it would irritate him.

    I guess it’s nice to see that people have become more honest about their motives than they were during the whole school busing debate.

    Read More
  17. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Q. Isn’t character more important than intelligence?

    A. I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence. (Of course, when it comes to making money, less endearing personality traits like aggressiveness also play a big role, but we’ll leave that aside for now.)
     
    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn't as important as everyone here thinks. I'd attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence. Why do you think the Tiger Cubs are so successful? IQ?

    Being ruthless, devious, sociopathic, and cunning matters a lot too. If you want to succeed at office politics, you need to be good at backstabbing and rear end kissing. Trust me, that correlates far, far more with managment-track promotions than IQ. I'd even guess that IQ might have a slightly negative correlation with getting the management promotion.

    If you're an entrepreneur and work for yourself, ruthlessness and deviousness can be important too. You can't be afraid to work your employees as hard as neccessary (while paying as little as possible) and fire them remorseley when they become unneeded. When the time comes to take someone to court (former employee, creditor, supplier, business partner, customer), you have to be willing to do that rather than "forgive" them. Most good entrepreneurs know how to use accounting regulations to their advantage (ie declare every meal a "business lunch" and mark it as a "business expense").

    Here's another example. Let's say you're a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this. If you want to understand how common this practice is, I suggest this article about the profiteering doctors of McAllen, Texas.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum

    Since doctors are so trusted, they can use their reputation to shield themselves from public scrutiny. It takes a certain degree of ruthlessness and sociopathy to do that.

    Lots of affluent people (entrepreneurs, corporate employees, brokers, etc.) become successful through sales (what's also called "rainmaking"). How do you become a successful salesman? One way is by "overselling" (lying/exaggerating) the benefits of your good or service. You have to be willing to close, even when you know your product isn't right for the client or might even make the client worse off. Politicians are particularly adept at this "My fellow Americans, this increase in H-1B visas will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs."

    Question: Names 2 qualities that describe an honest saleman.
    Answer: Unemployed and broke

    I'm not saying that you neccessarily need machiavellian qualities to get ahead in life, but those qualities can certainly help. Especially if you want to become very affluent/successful. I'd guess those qualities are more important to success than IQ.

    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn’t as important as everyone here thinks. I’d attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence.

    There is definitely something to this, I agree. I think lots of people know people who did really well in school who didn’t really go on to accomplish a whole lot. I hate to say it, but I put myself in this category.

    On the other hand, I do OK for myself, and am pretty much content with how things have turned out. Not everybody really wants to be a millionaire.

    But I can’t help but think that one of the main issues is that, while there are a lot of underachievers out there, they tend not to fall into a lot of the traps that genuinely dumb people do.

    I also knew a lot of people in school who seemed dumb as dirt, but still did their best and were pretty much OK people. These are the ones who seemed like, once they grew up, they still wound up on drugs, or unemployed for long periods, or just lost all their money in a hundred stupid little ways over the years.

    So while it’s certainly true that having a high IQ doesn’t necessarily guarantee that you’re going to set the world on fire, having a low one genuinely makes it a lot harder not to screw things up. Ambition and persistence are good things, but it sure seems like you actually need a lot MORE ambition and persistence than you would otherwise if you’re on the lower part of the totem pole.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    There is definitely something to this, I agree. I think lots of people know people who did really well in school who didn’t really go on to accomplish a whole lot. I hate to say it, but I put myself in this category.
     
    Here's the fallacy.

    "Accomplishing a whole lot" is not the same thing as money-making.

    For example, let's say you did a PHD in biology and became a research scientist. Maybe your earnings would be modest, but you'd produce a lot for society and "accomplish a whole lot."

    On the other hand, let's say you became an investment-bankers. You might become super wealthy, but you probably wouldn't accomplish anything. You'd actually be a negative-value producer. Your activity would make the economy smaller through value destruction activity. However, you'd be rich.

    My point is that you personally probably are accomplishing quite a bit. Unfortunately, due to how the labor market works, you haven't become a millionaire. Since modern day society is obsessed with money making, you might consider yourself a mediocrity, while considering your management-track classmates as "successful."

    My point is that high IQ and value creation aren't sufficient for extreme money making. You probably need to be high in Machiavellian traits, diligent, have an Amy Chua mom, and choose the right educational/career track.
  18. “A more conscientious group may well outperform a higher IQ group. On the other hand, conscientiousness, like many virtues, is positively correlated with IQ, so IQ tests work surprisingly well.”

    I’ve come to a slightly different conclusion based on my own personal experience.
    Specifically, with regards to musical talent (And to a lesser degree, language acquisition). I have a reasonably high IQ, and grew up essentially rewarded for that: I was an extremely capable reader, have been pretty good at math, and my own particular ‘talent’ is to pretty quickly grasp the central point of an argument/issue/project/etc. In essence, I was a model student-good at stuff that school wants you to be good at, successful at school specifically.

    Late in life, I got an interest in the piano (and, periodically, foreign languages). My experience with languages has been slightly different; with music, dramatically so. Specifically, I have noticed that my ability in these two skills is simply not anywhere what it is in traditional ‘IQ’ related skills.
    With language, I am still reasonably good at acquiring languages. For instance, in the language classes offered when you go to a resort in Mexico, I grasp the point, I’m able to make logical jumps, and due to my reading/previous study, I know how to grasp the necessary ‘next step’ to the basic stuff that’s being taught (‘ok. La Playa is beach. How do I say where? (donde) How do I say left and right? (de recho y izquierda). I know enough to learn 20 words to use the language rather than simply memorize the 5 words that they feed you.

    But that is a far cry from being an polyglot. I have, again, classic school intelligence: all book knowledge, but no real ability to internalize a language.

    And even more so with music. I have tried, and practiced, and put effort into the piano off and on for decades, and remain at best a childish player. I find that I can’t memorize, can’t process, and am not getting either the internal structure or the sense of music. And with music, I have put genuine effort into it.

    I am well aware that IQ doesn’t measure these two skills particularly well, and my point is not that there are different skills, that aren’t measurable with IQ (which happen to include intellectual skills like music or art as well as physical skills like boxing and baseball).

    My point is that, in my experience, inherent talent isn’t simply correlated with conscientiousness. Rather, talent allows conscientiousness. I read very early-it must have clicked in my brain in a way that it doesn’t in others (and in a way that music didn’t in mine). Once it clicked, my continued reading enjoyed a feedback cycle (from age 3 to age 20, say) where I read, I remembered and learned how to read very well, I got better at it, so I read alot more, got better at it, was rewarded with my work through more skill, and so on.

    In theory, I could have forced myself to play the piano throughout my youth. But there would have been no feedback (I play: I remember well: I get better: I enjoy more satisfaction from playing: that causes me to play: I remember more well… and so on).

    So I don’t think it is quite ‘IQ correlates with conscientiousness’ which implies that higher IQ people tend to work harder. I think it is more that higher IQ (or talent, for other skills) allows progress in what doesn’t feel like work. I’d imagine people who had the trouble with reading at age 5 similar to the trouble that I have had with the piano at age 50 would not ‘work’ at reading (just as I didn’t ‘work’ at piano at 5).

    [MORE]

    Another way to phrase it may be that ‘IQ correlates with conscientiousness’ implies that people with higher IQ (or anyone who is conscientious) do things because they realize it is good for them: they are motivated by their ‘duty’ (in the small sense: to do their homework, to better themselves, to be responsible, etc). I’m not convinced of that. My own experience is that ‘IQ correlated conscientiousness’ is not willingness to do what’s right or good for me, or my obligation. Its willingness to do what I find satisfying or rewarding: I am conscientious (I do what I”m supposed to) because it is ‘fun’ in some sense. But is that really conscientious?

    Or, finally, again a rephrasing. People with high IQ aren’t conscientious-they don’t necessarily work hard at X (reading, math, self-improvement, etc). People with high IQ can just do it without working very hard. This is very different.

    joeyjoejoe

    Read More
  19. @JohnnyWalker123

    Q. Isn’t character more important than intelligence?

    A. I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence. (Of course, when it comes to making money, less endearing personality traits like aggressiveness also play a big role, but we’ll leave that aside for now.)
     
    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn't as important as everyone here thinks. I'd attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence. Why do you think the Tiger Cubs are so successful? IQ?

    Being ruthless, devious, sociopathic, and cunning matters a lot too. If you want to succeed at office politics, you need to be good at backstabbing and rear end kissing. Trust me, that correlates far, far more with managment-track promotions than IQ. I'd even guess that IQ might have a slightly negative correlation with getting the management promotion.

    If you're an entrepreneur and work for yourself, ruthlessness and deviousness can be important too. You can't be afraid to work your employees as hard as neccessary (while paying as little as possible) and fire them remorseley when they become unneeded. When the time comes to take someone to court (former employee, creditor, supplier, business partner, customer), you have to be willing to do that rather than "forgive" them. Most good entrepreneurs know how to use accounting regulations to their advantage (ie declare every meal a "business lunch" and mark it as a "business expense").

    Here's another example. Let's say you're a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this. If you want to understand how common this practice is, I suggest this article about the profiteering doctors of McAllen, Texas.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum

    Since doctors are so trusted, they can use their reputation to shield themselves from public scrutiny. It takes a certain degree of ruthlessness and sociopathy to do that.

    Lots of affluent people (entrepreneurs, corporate employees, brokers, etc.) become successful through sales (what's also called "rainmaking"). How do you become a successful salesman? One way is by "overselling" (lying/exaggerating) the benefits of your good or service. You have to be willing to close, even when you know your product isn't right for the client or might even make the client worse off. Politicians are particularly adept at this "My fellow Americans, this increase in H-1B visas will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs."

    Question: Names 2 qualities that describe an honest saleman.
    Answer: Unemployed and broke

    I'm not saying that you neccessarily need machiavellian qualities to get ahead in life, but those qualities can certainly help. Especially if you want to become very affluent/successful. I'd guess those qualities are more important to success than IQ.

    Career track also has a strong influence on income.

    Blogger HalfSigma (now known as LionoftheBlogsphere) found that after controlling for education, there’s no IQ-income correlation. Actually, at the high-end of the IQ range, the correlation becomes NEGATIVE.

    He found that the main benefit of high-IQ is that it allows you to obtain credentials neccessary for entering a high-paying career track. However, once you enter that track, your success doesn’t correlate with IQ. So if you take an average high-IQ college-graduate and compare him against an average equally-credential low-IQ college-graduate, there’d be no difference in income.

    So it’s the career track (and the credentials for entry) that matter for income. Not your actual IQ. IQ is neccessary only as a means to get the credential.

    This suggests that if you’re a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    This also suggests that if you’re high-IQ , you should definitely keep accumulating credentials. Dropping out (to start a business or work for someone) in the hopes of being successful is, probably, a bad idea.

    For years, lots of HBD posters have been giving the advice that kids should skip college to start their own business or be a blue collar tradesman. They’ve often claimed that even high IQ people “don’t need college” since their IQ is high.

    The reality is that everyone should attempt to maximize their educational credentials, regardless of their abilities or IQ. That’s the rational decision if you want to get ahead in today’s America.

    Charles Murray wrote an article about how lower-IQ high school students should not attend college and would economically be better off learning a trade. This is horrible advice. Unfortunately, you see a lot of this type of thing on some HBD sites.

    Someone wrote a detailed analysis of how college still makes financial sense even for low-IQ people.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/09/college-is-still-best-pay-off.php

    By the way, there’s this mistaken view that labor market are highly efficient and select the best person for the job. This is incorrect. Most firms screen out people without the proper degree. Even if you have the right work experience and can demonstrate proficiency/skills, lots of employers will refuse to hire you.

    Is this rational? No, but most employers have inefficient HR departments and irrational hiring policies. This is a reality of the modern job market. Elite employers are especially irrational. For example, if you apply to a Venture Capital firm, they won’t hire you if you don’t have an Ivy League BA or MBA. Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm’s investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let’s say PHD from MIT), they’ll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it’s how the labor market works.

    Amy Chua-style parents, who start plotting their child’s success early in life, can be very helpful in getting into the right university, which then helps getting into a lucrative career track.

    In conclusion, if you want to be successful, get good educational credentials and get on a good career track. Don’t worry about your IQ, it’s really not that important.

    What are the good career tracks? Medicine and dentistry. Extremely high income and roughly 0% unemployment.

    If you’re willing to work super long hours, finance (i-banking, hedge funds, private equity, venture capital), BIG LAW (top law firms), and elite management consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain) can be very lucrative too. Of course, those elite finance/consulting/BIGLAW firms hire exclusively from Ivy Leagues.

    If you’ve missed the MD/DDS and finance/consulting/BIGLAW trains, the next best path is govt work. Govt workers are surprisingly well-paid, the benefits are good, the job security is high, promotions are easy, competition is minimal, and you can be lazy without getting fired. Also, you get to mix around with powerful people, which brings social status. Firefighting (especially in Southern California) has to be one of the best govt jobs available. For example, the average Orange County firefighter makes $140,000. Not bad.

    Summary:

    -Credentials and Career Track decide your economic success, not your IQ
    -It makes sense for everyone to grind away to maximize their IQ credentials
    -HBDers who tell people to skip college are giving bad advice
    -Even low-IQ people should get college degrees
    -Ignore Charles Murray and listen to Amy Chua
    -Once you get a college degree, you can enter a well-paying career track and make a lot of $$$
    -Healthcare (MD, DDS) and Ivy League careers (finance, consulting, BIG LAW) pay really well
    -Howevever, if you missed the train, go work for the govt. As John Derbyshire frequently says, “get a government job.”
    -SoCal firefighters have it particularly good

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    My personal experience is completely opposite, so is my own hiring policy. I have a pretty decent college degree, yes, but I make nearly twice or three times an average member of my degree makes and I'm doing this at a very young age, having slipped into the top 10% bracket of income. I'll say this, at least if you're in the weird mix of finance and technology where I reside in:

    1) Get your degree, but don't obsess too much about the university. Use it primarily to network.

    2) Make it known that you can deliver results. For me and many people, this will be mean working hard. But however you manage it, your career will be set by your 'brand" and how well you can advertise yourself.

    3) Accumulate technical and vendor certifications. Those are helpful, and more narrowly focused on your career path than general education - plus they cost a lot less.

    And be willing to change your job often. Corporations typically show little or no loyalty to you as an individual, so you should be prepared to do the same, especially early in your career. This is probably the fastest way to boost your income as well.

    , @anon
    This suggests that if you’re a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    I suppose this is good advice, and it would probably work, if people actually DID it.

    But it seems a little like Trayvon Martin's aspirations to be an astronaut.

    It's fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won't matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don't have.

    And it's not just getting in to college either. He's going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.

    And there are indeed people who do this, no question. We've all heard their stories and everyone is so inspired by them they could vomit, but it's also not that common.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they're really going to go that route?

    I don't think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn't try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.
    , @syonredux

    Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm’s investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let’s say PHD from MIT), they’ll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it’s how the labor market works.
     
    On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State.....
  20. @anon
    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn’t as important as everyone here thinks. I’d attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence.

    There is definitely something to this, I agree. I think lots of people know people who did really well in school who didn't really go on to accomplish a whole lot. I hate to say it, but I put myself in this category.

    On the other hand, I do OK for myself, and am pretty much content with how things have turned out. Not everybody really wants to be a millionaire.

    But I can't help but think that one of the main issues is that, while there are a lot of underachievers out there, they tend not to fall into a lot of the traps that genuinely dumb people do.

    I also knew a lot of people in school who seemed dumb as dirt, but still did their best and were pretty much OK people. These are the ones who seemed like, once they grew up, they still wound up on drugs, or unemployed for long periods, or just lost all their money in a hundred stupid little ways over the years.

    So while it's certainly true that having a high IQ doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to set the world on fire, having a low one genuinely makes it a lot harder not to screw things up. Ambition and persistence are good things, but it sure seems like you actually need a lot MORE ambition and persistence than you would otherwise if you're on the lower part of the totem pole.

    There is definitely something to this, I agree. I think lots of people know people who did really well in school who didn’t really go on to accomplish a whole lot. I hate to say it, but I put myself in this category.

    Here’s the fallacy.

    “Accomplishing a whole lot” is not the same thing as money-making.

    For example, let’s say you did a PHD in biology and became a research scientist. Maybe your earnings would be modest, but you’d produce a lot for society and “accomplish a whole lot.”

    On the other hand, let’s say you became an investment-bankers. You might become super wealthy, but you probably wouldn’t accomplish anything. You’d actually be a negative-value producer. Your activity would make the economy smaller through value destruction activity. However, you’d be rich.

    My point is that you personally probably are accomplishing quite a bit. Unfortunately, due to how the labor market works, you haven’t become a millionaire. Since modern day society is obsessed with money making, you might consider yourself a mediocrity, while considering your management-track classmates as “successful.”

    My point is that high IQ and value creation aren’t sufficient for extreme money making. You probably need to be high in Machiavellian traits, diligent, have an Amy Chua mom, and choose the right educational/career track.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I agree with you, and I'm not really arguing about that.

    I guess my point was more that, as far as the mass of society is concerned, the problems of the low side of the bell curve are a bigger deal than the personal traits of the high side.

    If the vast majority of the people in the country were just doing basic middle-class jobs, everything would be fine. We might miss out on some of the high-tech stuff that the high achievers didn't end up inventing, but we got along fine without it before, after all.

    On the other hand, the people on the low end can easily end up screwed, and screwing things up for others, and it can happen a lot more easily than people like to think.

    Which is not a particularly profound or original point, I realize.

    I guess my point is that IQ is sort of like money. Sure, money can't buy happiness, but being poor still sucks pretty hardcore.
  21. @JohnnyWalker123
    Career track also has a strong influence on income.

    Blogger HalfSigma (now known as LionoftheBlogsphere) found that after controlling for education, there's no IQ-income correlation. Actually, at the high-end of the IQ range, the correlation becomes NEGATIVE.

    He found that the main benefit of high-IQ is that it allows you to obtain credentials neccessary for entering a high-paying career track. However, once you enter that track, your success doesn't correlate with IQ. So if you take an average high-IQ college-graduate and compare him against an average equally-credential low-IQ college-graduate, there'd be no difference in income.

    So it's the career track (and the credentials for entry) that matter for income. Not your actual IQ. IQ is neccessary only as a means to get the credential.

    This suggests that if you're a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    This also suggests that if you're high-IQ , you should definitely keep accumulating credentials. Dropping out (to start a business or work for someone) in the hopes of being successful is, probably, a bad idea.

    For years, lots of HBD posters have been giving the advice that kids should skip college to start their own business or be a blue collar tradesman. They've often claimed that even high IQ people "don't need college" since their IQ is high.

    The reality is that everyone should attempt to maximize their educational credentials, regardless of their abilities or IQ. That's the rational decision if you want to get ahead in today's America.

    Charles Murray wrote an article about how lower-IQ high school students should not attend college and would economically be better off learning a trade. This is horrible advice. Unfortunately, you see a lot of this type of thing on some HBD sites.

    Someone wrote a detailed analysis of how college still makes financial sense even for low-IQ people.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/09/college-is-still-best-pay-off.php

    By the way, there's this mistaken view that labor market are highly efficient and select the best person for the job. This is incorrect. Most firms screen out people without the proper degree. Even if you have the right work experience and can demonstrate proficiency/skills, lots of employers will refuse to hire you.

    Is this rational? No, but most employers have inefficient HR departments and irrational hiring policies. This is a reality of the modern job market. Elite employers are especially irrational. For example, if you apply to a Venture Capital firm, they won't hire you if you don't have an Ivy League BA or MBA. Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm's investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let's say PHD from MIT), they'll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it's how the labor market works.

    Amy Chua-style parents, who start plotting their child's success early in life, can be very helpful in getting into the right university, which then helps getting into a lucrative career track.

    In conclusion, if you want to be successful, get good educational credentials and get on a good career track. Don't worry about your IQ, it's really not that important.

    What are the good career tracks? Medicine and dentistry. Extremely high income and roughly 0% unemployment.

    If you're willing to work super long hours, finance (i-banking, hedge funds, private equity, venture capital), BIG LAW (top law firms), and elite management consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain) can be very lucrative too. Of course, those elite finance/consulting/BIGLAW firms hire exclusively from Ivy Leagues.

    If you've missed the MD/DDS and finance/consulting/BIGLAW trains, the next best path is govt work. Govt workers are surprisingly well-paid, the benefits are good, the job security is high, promotions are easy, competition is minimal, and you can be lazy without getting fired. Also, you get to mix around with powerful people, which brings social status. Firefighting (especially in Southern California) has to be one of the best govt jobs available. For example, the average Orange County firefighter makes $140,000. Not bad.

    Summary:

    -Credentials and Career Track decide your economic success, not your IQ
    -It makes sense for everyone to grind away to maximize their IQ credentials
    -HBDers who tell people to skip college are giving bad advice
    -Even low-IQ people should get college degrees
    -Ignore Charles Murray and listen to Amy Chua
    -Once you get a college degree, you can enter a well-paying career track and make a lot of $$$
    -Healthcare (MD, DDS) and Ivy League careers (finance, consulting, BIG LAW) pay really well
    -Howevever, if you missed the train, go work for the govt. As John Derbyshire frequently says, "get a government job."
    -SoCal firefighters have it particularly good

    My personal experience is completely opposite, so is my own hiring policy. I have a pretty decent college degree, yes, but I make nearly twice or three times an average member of my degree makes and I’m doing this at a very young age, having slipped into the top 10% bracket of income. I’ll say this, at least if you’re in the weird mix of finance and technology where I reside in:

    1) Get your degree, but don’t obsess too much about the university. Use it primarily to network.

    2) Make it known that you can deliver results. For me and many people, this will be mean working hard. But however you manage it, your career will be set by your ‘brand” and how well you can advertise yourself.

    3) Accumulate technical and vendor certifications. Those are helpful, and more narrowly focused on your career path than general education – plus they cost a lot less.

    And be willing to change your job often. Corporations typically show little or no loyalty to you as an individual, so you should be prepared to do the same, especially early in your career. This is probably the fastest way to boost your income as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    From my experience, extremely high-end computer programmers can sometimes make very high rates per hour if they do freelancing. However, the majority coming in these days are mediocre H-1bs.

    The software industry is not especially meritocratic. A lot of companies just hire according to degree and your past job responsibilities. Since lots of H-1bs get the experience in India (as cheaper subcontractors in outsourced operations), they then are brought in. Companies could hire according to passing some type of coding test, which would be more efficient.

    However, companies are run by incompetent people and plagued by bureaucratic inertia, so they continue with their current practices.
  22. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Career track also has a strong influence on income.

    Blogger HalfSigma (now known as LionoftheBlogsphere) found that after controlling for education, there's no IQ-income correlation. Actually, at the high-end of the IQ range, the correlation becomes NEGATIVE.

    He found that the main benefit of high-IQ is that it allows you to obtain credentials neccessary for entering a high-paying career track. However, once you enter that track, your success doesn't correlate with IQ. So if you take an average high-IQ college-graduate and compare him against an average equally-credential low-IQ college-graduate, there'd be no difference in income.

    So it's the career track (and the credentials for entry) that matter for income. Not your actual IQ. IQ is neccessary only as a means to get the credential.

    This suggests that if you're a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    This also suggests that if you're high-IQ , you should definitely keep accumulating credentials. Dropping out (to start a business or work for someone) in the hopes of being successful is, probably, a bad idea.

    For years, lots of HBD posters have been giving the advice that kids should skip college to start their own business or be a blue collar tradesman. They've often claimed that even high IQ people "don't need college" since their IQ is high.

    The reality is that everyone should attempt to maximize their educational credentials, regardless of their abilities or IQ. That's the rational decision if you want to get ahead in today's America.

    Charles Murray wrote an article about how lower-IQ high school students should not attend college and would economically be better off learning a trade. This is horrible advice. Unfortunately, you see a lot of this type of thing on some HBD sites.

    Someone wrote a detailed analysis of how college still makes financial sense even for low-IQ people.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/09/college-is-still-best-pay-off.php

    By the way, there's this mistaken view that labor market are highly efficient and select the best person for the job. This is incorrect. Most firms screen out people without the proper degree. Even if you have the right work experience and can demonstrate proficiency/skills, lots of employers will refuse to hire you.

    Is this rational? No, but most employers have inefficient HR departments and irrational hiring policies. This is a reality of the modern job market. Elite employers are especially irrational. For example, if you apply to a Venture Capital firm, they won't hire you if you don't have an Ivy League BA or MBA. Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm's investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let's say PHD from MIT), they'll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it's how the labor market works.

    Amy Chua-style parents, who start plotting their child's success early in life, can be very helpful in getting into the right university, which then helps getting into a lucrative career track.

    In conclusion, if you want to be successful, get good educational credentials and get on a good career track. Don't worry about your IQ, it's really not that important.

    What are the good career tracks? Medicine and dentistry. Extremely high income and roughly 0% unemployment.

    If you're willing to work super long hours, finance (i-banking, hedge funds, private equity, venture capital), BIG LAW (top law firms), and elite management consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain) can be very lucrative too. Of course, those elite finance/consulting/BIGLAW firms hire exclusively from Ivy Leagues.

    If you've missed the MD/DDS and finance/consulting/BIGLAW trains, the next best path is govt work. Govt workers are surprisingly well-paid, the benefits are good, the job security is high, promotions are easy, competition is minimal, and you can be lazy without getting fired. Also, you get to mix around with powerful people, which brings social status. Firefighting (especially in Southern California) has to be one of the best govt jobs available. For example, the average Orange County firefighter makes $140,000. Not bad.

    Summary:

    -Credentials and Career Track decide your economic success, not your IQ
    -It makes sense for everyone to grind away to maximize their IQ credentials
    -HBDers who tell people to skip college are giving bad advice
    -Even low-IQ people should get college degrees
    -Ignore Charles Murray and listen to Amy Chua
    -Once you get a college degree, you can enter a well-paying career track and make a lot of $$$
    -Healthcare (MD, DDS) and Ivy League careers (finance, consulting, BIG LAW) pay really well
    -Howevever, if you missed the train, go work for the govt. As John Derbyshire frequently says, "get a government job."
    -SoCal firefighters have it particularly good

    This suggests that if you’re a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    I suppose this is good advice, and it would probably work, if people actually DID it.

    But it seems a little like Trayvon Martin’s aspirations to be an astronaut.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.

    And there are indeed people who do this, no question. We’ve all heard their stories and everyone is so inspired by them they could vomit, but it’s also not that common.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    >I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    here's a question - why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd guess Trayvon's main problem wasn't his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent. Which led towards his confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.
     
    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.
     
    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it's easy to graduate.

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it's really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    In my office, my boss (who makes $170,000/yr) mostly just sits in meetings, sends e-mails, and retrieves information. I could've done his job when I was in junior high. However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn't trade places.

    I have a friend who used to be an investment-banker. Do you know what he did? Spreadsheets all day.

    I'm serious that there are lots of high-paying jobs out there if you're a low-IQ grind with a good degree.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?
     
    Asians and Indians. Combined they're over 40% of humanity.

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.
     
    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I'm telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I'm serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice. That's not good, especially when all these HBDers consider themselves geniuses.
  23. GSH says:

    Perhaps one line of attack might be to make the argument more personal, rather than more general.

    For example, suppose you had a son or daughter for whom it becomes pretty clear that he or she would be slightly below average in intelligence. Probably going to be a C student, in the end. How would you raise them? What would be your criteria for them being “successful”?

    Putting the other person, especially if they’re typically smart, in the position of a potential parent might make them skip past the instinctive “this is wrong” step.

    Read More
  24. Veritatis says:

    So, what questions does IQ testing not answer? That is to say, what are the limits to the usefulness of the knowledge gained about a group/individual once we know their IQ?

    Also, it seems from (an uncareful reading of) this article that a high IQ is positively correlated to positive traits only. What are the negative traits –if any– correlated to high IQ? And could those traits produce any negative outcomes for the blessed high IQ group?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I read somewhere that high IQ was correlated with poorer "holistic reasoning" and may involve an overfocus on specific details.
  25. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123

    There is definitely something to this, I agree. I think lots of people know people who did really well in school who didn’t really go on to accomplish a whole lot. I hate to say it, but I put myself in this category.
     
    Here's the fallacy.

    "Accomplishing a whole lot" is not the same thing as money-making.

    For example, let's say you did a PHD in biology and became a research scientist. Maybe your earnings would be modest, but you'd produce a lot for society and "accomplish a whole lot."

    On the other hand, let's say you became an investment-bankers. You might become super wealthy, but you probably wouldn't accomplish anything. You'd actually be a negative-value producer. Your activity would make the economy smaller through value destruction activity. However, you'd be rich.

    My point is that you personally probably are accomplishing quite a bit. Unfortunately, due to how the labor market works, you haven't become a millionaire. Since modern day society is obsessed with money making, you might consider yourself a mediocrity, while considering your management-track classmates as "successful."

    My point is that high IQ and value creation aren't sufficient for extreme money making. You probably need to be high in Machiavellian traits, diligent, have an Amy Chua mom, and choose the right educational/career track.

    I agree with you, and I’m not really arguing about that.

    I guess my point was more that, as far as the mass of society is concerned, the problems of the low side of the bell curve are a bigger deal than the personal traits of the high side.

    If the vast majority of the people in the country were just doing basic middle-class jobs, everything would be fine. We might miss out on some of the high-tech stuff that the high achievers didn’t end up inventing, but we got along fine without it before, after all.

    On the other hand, the people on the low end can easily end up screwed, and screwing things up for others, and it can happen a lot more easily than people like to think.

    Which is not a particularly profound or original point, I realize.

    I guess my point is that IQ is sort of like money. Sure, money can’t buy happiness, but being poor still sucks pretty hardcore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Here are the arrest rates by WORDSUM vocabulary score (General Social Survey).

    Percent Ever Arrested

    0 13.1%
    1: 14.0%
    2: 11.3%
    3: 14.1%
    4: 15.4%
    5: 14.2%
    6: 14.0%
    7: 10.9%
    8: 12.1%
    9: 9.1%
    10: 7.8%

    Percent Ever Injected Drugs

    0 3.9%
    1: 8.2%
    2: 3.9%
    3: 2.4%
    4: 3.3%
    5: 3.4%
    6: 3.9%
    7: 3.2%
    8: 2.1%
    9: 2.0%
    10: 3.1%

    Percent Arrested by Degree

    HS Dropout: 13.6
    High School Graduate: 12.5
    Junior College: 12.7
    BA: 11.2
    Masters: 8.2

    Percent Injected by Degree

    HS Dropout: 4.2
    High School Graduate: 3.5
    Junior College: 2.9
    BA: 1.5
    Masters: 0.9

    Here's something interesting.

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 5.1
    High School Graduate: 3.7
    Junior College: 4.0
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.0

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 6.0
    High School Graduate: 3.3
    Junior College: 3.2
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.9

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.


    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 14.8
    Junior College: 11.1
    BA: 13.3
    Masters: 12.6

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 10.0
    Junior College: 9.9
    BA: 10.2
    Masters: 8.7

    This suggests that IQ is protective against getting arrested.

    Conclusion:

    Having a high IQ doesn't seem to help people avoid drugs. Educational attainment is a strong factor in avoiding drugs.

    Educational attainment does help avoiding arrest, but IQ is even more important if you want to avoid being arrested.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with "screwing up." Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.
  26. @Veritatis
    So, what questions does IQ testing not answer? That is to say, what are the limits to the usefulness of the knowledge gained about a group/individual once we know their IQ?

    Also, it seems from (an uncareful reading of) this article that a high IQ is positively correlated to positive traits only. What are the negative traits --if any-- correlated to high IQ? And could those traits produce any negative outcomes for the blessed high IQ group?

    I read somewhere that high IQ was correlated with poorer “holistic reasoning” and may involve an overfocus on specific details.

    Read More
  27. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of "junk food" (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT ("food stamp") cards.

    I live in a "vibrantly diverse" city. I shop at a local Yemeni-owned "mom and pop" store. I see African-Americans (but not exclusively African-Americans) purchasing "junk food" with EBT cards. I see them feeding it to their children on the bus. It is painful to see. In the "food desert" that is my neighborhood, it is hard for a person without a motor vehicle to get to the modern, 2-acre-footprint megamarkets where the more affluent shop for their fresh romaine lettuce and sugar-free quinoa cereal. Although I see the virtues of the libertarian perspective, this is an area where the government should step in. They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    If children must have a good education, then they must also have access to good nutrition. The former depends, to a great degree, upon the latter. Their mothers, often so poorly educated themselves, need to have high-I.Q. persons gently force them towards more intelligent nutritional choices.

    But first, we have to admit that there is such a thing as I.Q. in the first place!

    In my city, EBT can be used at the farmers’ market. Hispanics seem to take advantage of it.

    Read More
  28. @Daniel Chieh
    My personal experience is completely opposite, so is my own hiring policy. I have a pretty decent college degree, yes, but I make nearly twice or three times an average member of my degree makes and I'm doing this at a very young age, having slipped into the top 10% bracket of income. I'll say this, at least if you're in the weird mix of finance and technology where I reside in:

    1) Get your degree, but don't obsess too much about the university. Use it primarily to network.

    2) Make it known that you can deliver results. For me and many people, this will be mean working hard. But however you manage it, your career will be set by your 'brand" and how well you can advertise yourself.

    3) Accumulate technical and vendor certifications. Those are helpful, and more narrowly focused on your career path than general education - plus they cost a lot less.

    And be willing to change your job often. Corporations typically show little or no loyalty to you as an individual, so you should be prepared to do the same, especially early in your career. This is probably the fastest way to boost your income as well.

    From my experience, extremely high-end computer programmers can sometimes make very high rates per hour if they do freelancing. However, the majority coming in these days are mediocre H-1bs.

    The software industry is not especially meritocratic. A lot of companies just hire according to degree and your past job responsibilities. Since lots of H-1bs get the experience in India (as cheaper subcontractors in outsourced operations), they then are brought in. Companies could hire according to passing some type of coding test, which would be more efficient.

    However, companies are run by incompetent people and plagued by bureaucratic inertia, so they continue with their current practices.

    Read More
  29. @anon
    This suggests that if you’re a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    I suppose this is good advice, and it would probably work, if people actually DID it.

    But it seems a little like Trayvon Martin's aspirations to be an astronaut.

    It's fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won't matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don't have.

    And it's not just getting in to college either. He's going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.

    And there are indeed people who do this, no question. We've all heard their stories and everyone is so inspired by them they could vomit, but it's also not that common.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they're really going to go that route?

    I don't think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn't try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    >I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    here’s a question – why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    From my small number of degrees of separation from medical training, there is an enormous body of material you need to learn. It isn't simply memorizing scientific or medical facts, but it isn't anywhere as deep with respect to problem solving or reasoning about novel situations as mathematics or engineering.

    Some people are able to do the reading, absorb the knowledge, and pass the exams. If you don't have that natural aptitude, it would indeed require serious if not bizarre determination.
    , @anon
    here’s a question – why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?

    It probably wouldn't, if you were average or above-average in IQ.

    I sometimes wonder if people on these sites ever even interact with 85 IQ people. I'm talking about people who can barely understand a simple newspaper article. People who were flummoxed by balancing a checkbook, back before the banks had websites that just did it for you.

    I know these people. I don't envy them in any way. I suppose, if they were going to work hard enough, they could become doctors, but you're talking about a LOT of work.

    It's like saying how, if short guys train hard enough, they might still become NBA players. OK, well, maybe, but it's going to take a lot more out of them. The number of people willing to do all that is going to be pretty small.

  30. @Romanian
    A very useful and informative FAQ, especially for my redpilling.

    Off topic - a profile pf Richard Spencer in The Atlantic reveals the "rubbing their faces in diversity" aspect of multiculti psychology.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/his-kampf/524505/


    With one major-party presidential nominee using his nomenclature, and the other accused of supporting his ideas, Spencer got famous, and he moved into an apartment in Northern Virginia. (He continues to live part-time in Whitefish.)
    A number of mortified St. Mark’s alumni conspired to speak out against him. Eight from our class of 69, myself among them, wrote an anti-Spencer statement on a crowdsourced fund-raising website, supporting resettlement of refugees in Dallas—a cause we chose because we knew it would irritate him. By December, after videographers from The Atlantic filmed Spencer receiving Nazi salutes and saying “Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!,” the school community had kicked in more than $60,000.
     
    That Hail thing really was a political dud, both badly thought out and blown out of proportion.

    PS I have come to dislike this overly descriptive form of journalism where you discuss the weather, irrelevant side activities and what the other guy was wearing.

    That Hail thing really was a political dud, both badly thought out and blown out of proportion.

    Nah. A bit of mutual teeth-flashing is good. Really helps distill positions on both sides. Sleepwalking fence-balancers, awake!

    Read More
  31. @anon
    I agree with you, and I'm not really arguing about that.

    I guess my point was more that, as far as the mass of society is concerned, the problems of the low side of the bell curve are a bigger deal than the personal traits of the high side.

    If the vast majority of the people in the country were just doing basic middle-class jobs, everything would be fine. We might miss out on some of the high-tech stuff that the high achievers didn't end up inventing, but we got along fine without it before, after all.

    On the other hand, the people on the low end can easily end up screwed, and screwing things up for others, and it can happen a lot more easily than people like to think.

    Which is not a particularly profound or original point, I realize.

    I guess my point is that IQ is sort of like money. Sure, money can't buy happiness, but being poor still sucks pretty hardcore.

    Here are the arrest rates by WORDSUM vocabulary score (General Social Survey).

    Percent Ever Arrested

    0 13.1%
    1: 14.0%
    2: 11.3%
    3: 14.1%
    4: 15.4%
    5: 14.2%
    6: 14.0%
    7: 10.9%
    8: 12.1%
    9: 9.1%
    10: 7.8%

    Percent Ever Injected Drugs

    0 3.9%
    1: 8.2%
    2: 3.9%
    3: 2.4%
    4: 3.3%
    5: 3.4%
    6: 3.9%
    7: 3.2%
    8: 2.1%
    9: 2.0%
    10: 3.1%

    Percent Arrested by Degree

    HS Dropout: 13.6
    High School Graduate: 12.5
    Junior College: 12.7
    BA: 11.2
    Masters: 8.2

    Percent Injected by Degree

    HS Dropout: 4.2
    High School Graduate: 3.5
    Junior College: 2.9
    BA: 1.5
    Masters: 0.9

    Here’s something interesting.

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, “LOW-MEDIUM IQ”)

    HS Dropout: 5.1
    High School Graduate: 3.7
    Junior College: 4.0
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.0

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, “HIGH IQ”)

    HS Dropout: 6.0
    High School Graduate: 3.3
    Junior College: 3.2
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.9

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, “LOW-MEDIUM IQ”)

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 14.8
    Junior College: 11.1
    BA: 13.3
    Masters: 12.6

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, “HIGH IQ”)

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 10.0
    Junior College: 9.9
    BA: 10.2
    Masters: 8.7

    This suggests that IQ is protective against getting arrested.

    Conclusion:

    Having a high IQ doesn’t seem to help people avoid drugs. Educational attainment is a strong factor in avoiding drugs.

    Educational attainment does help avoiding arrest, but IQ is even more important if you want to avoid being arrested.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with “screwing up.” Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    I suppose, but why would you do that? Obviously the low-IQ people who do make it all the way through college and the low-IQ people who do don't go to all the trouble are going to be different. I'm actually surprised that the low-IQ people who went to college didn't have a lower rate of injecting drugs than the high-IQ people who did. After all, they would have to be more conscientious than the kind of people who could have skated through on natural talent alone.
    , @syonredux

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with “screwing up.” Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.
     
    Sounds a bit cart before horse. I would say that it takes good self-discipline to get on a "career track" in the first place.
    , @anon
    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    I also wanted to say that I really don't know if this is a fair criterion to use.

    After all, even the people who inject drugs don't think it's a good idea, do they? Shooting up heroin isn't like investing in penny stocks or a pyramid scheme or whatever. There's not even the hope of a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, so it seems like injecting drugs would be more correlated with depression and hopelessness than with intelligence. Knowing the intellectual arguments against doing it doesn't seem like it would matter if you've already given up on life anyway, and if you haven't given up, it's pretty common knowledge where it leads, so you probably wouldn't do it anyway.

    I don't think anyone has ever denied that there are plenty of high IQ people who are also cursed with chemical imbalances that lead to depression.

    , @anonguy
    Let's not forget that higher IQ people having lower arrest rates might simply mean that they use their intelligence to not get caught rather than higher IQ people are less likely to commit arrest-worthy offenses.
  32. @anon
    This suggests that if you’re a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    I suppose this is good advice, and it would probably work, if people actually DID it.

    But it seems a little like Trayvon Martin's aspirations to be an astronaut.

    It's fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won't matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don't have.

    And it's not just getting in to college either. He's going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.

    And there are indeed people who do this, no question. We've all heard their stories and everyone is so inspired by them they could vomit, but it's also not that common.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they're really going to go that route?

    I don't think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn't try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent. Which led towards his confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.

    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.

    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it’s easy to graduate.

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it’s really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    In my office, my boss (who makes $170,000/yr) mostly just sits in meetings, sends e-mails, and retrieves information. I could’ve done his job when I was in junior high. However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn’t trade places.

    I have a friend who used to be an investment-banker. Do you know what he did? Spreadsheets all day.

    I’m serious that there are lots of high-paying jobs out there if you’re a low-IQ grind with a good degree.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I’m telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I’m serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice. That’s not good, especially when all these HBDers consider themselves geniuses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment.

    Well, since we'll never really know what he was actually like before he got shot, it's hard to say. But I can pretty much guess that he was never going to be an astronaut even if he had a totally normal family.

    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    No, it appears as though they're lowering standards now.

    Hey, if that works, why not just lower them all the way, and just make everyone go to college, and make it even easier than high school? Then Half Sigma could show us that everyone's life will turn out great.

    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it’s easy to graduate.

    Well, engineering is a career track that correlates pretty highly with success, isn't it? Are the grading standards of pre-med pretty low?

    However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn’t trade places.

    Yeah, and I doubt that most kids who had to sweat their way through pre-algebra really would either. That was kind of my point.

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.

    Then I would think the the fact that nowhere near 40% of the world's population are doctors and dentists would kind of make you think your analysis might have missed something.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I’m serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice.

    OK, well, I guess I didn't mean random commenters. Hopefully you wouldn't take career advice from random blog commenters. At least not exclusively.

    , @PiltdownMan

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.
     
    I get the impression that it is not innate to the culture. They are being pushed by their high-achieving parents. Of course, that impression is based on this single video clip (NSFW dialogue advisory).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY7anGG16u0
    , @syonredux

    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent.
     
    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities......

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it’s really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.
     
    Dunno. What do you mean by "low IQ?" Low for Black Americans is below 85.......I'm not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker......

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.
     
    So, if 40% of the planet's population got a degree in dentistry.....

    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I’m telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

     

    Again, how low is low? Low for Whites? Blacks? Mestizos?
    , @Jefferson
    "I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment."

    Filipinos on average have a similar or even lower IQ than Black Americans, yet Filipinos are significantly less violent than Black Americans.

    The out of control rate of violence in the African American community is due to their extremely high testosterone more so than their low IQs.

    Filipinos can't compete with African Americans when it comes to high testosterone.

    Although the downside side effects of Filipino low IQ is that they tend to disproportionately be impulsive degenerate gamblers, blowing away their entire weekly paychecks at the casinos. Go to any casino in Northern California and the racial demographics resemble Little Manila. Gambling is to Filipinos like what alcohol is to the Scottish and the Irish.

    Every Filipino family has at least 1 family member who's addiction to gambling is so bad that they need rehab to cure them of their disease.
  33. @27 year old
    >I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    here's a question - why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?

    From my small number of degrees of separation from medical training, there is an enormous body of material you need to learn. It isn’t simply memorizing scientific or medical facts, but it isn’t anywhere as deep with respect to problem solving or reasoning about novel situations as mathematics or engineering.

    Some people are able to do the reading, absorb the knowledge, and pass the exams. If you don’t have that natural aptitude, it would indeed require serious if not bizarre determination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The pre-med heartbreaker class is supposed to be Organic Chemistry, which is a lot of memorization rather than a lot of theory or math.
    , @PiltdownMan
    A guy I know who has been dean of a medical school for a long time had some interesting insights.

    He said that the school he has run has changed both admissions policies and well as teaching methods considerably to lessen reliance on rote memorization. With medical facts, papers, cases and texts all easily looked up on a smartphone in today's world, his school has changed teaching and testing methods to better emphasize the kind of complex systems thinking needed to be a good diagnostician and a doctor managing the course of disease and cure. He also remarked that his institution has had remarkable success in a small pilot project of admitting engineering grads to the medical school—he remarked that they have exactly the kind of hands-on empirical problem solving and systems thinking that are the makings of a good doctor. The problem, he said, was that medical certification exams are yet to catch up, so the students need to do a lot of rote memorization at some stage in their education, regardless.

  34. @Inquiring Mind
    From my small number of degrees of separation from medical training, there is an enormous body of material you need to learn. It isn't simply memorizing scientific or medical facts, but it isn't anywhere as deep with respect to problem solving or reasoning about novel situations as mathematics or engineering.

    Some people are able to do the reading, absorb the knowledge, and pass the exams. If you don't have that natural aptitude, it would indeed require serious if not bizarre determination.

    The pre-med heartbreaker class is supposed to be Organic Chemistry, which is a lot of memorization rather than a lot of theory or math.

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Yes, it's remarkable how much success in medical school and placing into a residency depends to this day almost entirely on memorization.

    The so-called "Step" tests -- which more than any other metric determines where a medical student will do his/her residency -- are tests of memory and little more, beyond some very rudimentary ability to think scientifically.

    The profession is now pretending to embrace a "problem-solving" paradigm, but there is no serious "problem-solving" in the Step tests -- just brute force memorization (unlike the MCAT exam, used for admission to medical school, which does indeed test analytical abilities).

    It's really something of a disgrace -- little wonder that so many MDs seem to reason like idiots. God forbid you should ask them a question that requires an understanding of statistics -- even though the papers in their own field express their results in statistical terms, of course.

    , @27 year old
    Right - the point of my question is why do we select doctors based on their ability to memorize the phone book?
  35. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Here are the arrest rates by WORDSUM vocabulary score (General Social Survey).

    Percent Ever Arrested

    0 13.1%
    1: 14.0%
    2: 11.3%
    3: 14.1%
    4: 15.4%
    5: 14.2%
    6: 14.0%
    7: 10.9%
    8: 12.1%
    9: 9.1%
    10: 7.8%

    Percent Ever Injected Drugs

    0 3.9%
    1: 8.2%
    2: 3.9%
    3: 2.4%
    4: 3.3%
    5: 3.4%
    6: 3.9%
    7: 3.2%
    8: 2.1%
    9: 2.0%
    10: 3.1%

    Percent Arrested by Degree

    HS Dropout: 13.6
    High School Graduate: 12.5
    Junior College: 12.7
    BA: 11.2
    Masters: 8.2

    Percent Injected by Degree

    HS Dropout: 4.2
    High School Graduate: 3.5
    Junior College: 2.9
    BA: 1.5
    Masters: 0.9

    Here's something interesting.

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 5.1
    High School Graduate: 3.7
    Junior College: 4.0
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.0

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 6.0
    High School Graduate: 3.3
    Junior College: 3.2
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.9

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.


    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 14.8
    Junior College: 11.1
    BA: 13.3
    Masters: 12.6

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 10.0
    Junior College: 9.9
    BA: 10.2
    Masters: 8.7

    This suggests that IQ is protective against getting arrested.

    Conclusion:

    Having a high IQ doesn't seem to help people avoid drugs. Educational attainment is a strong factor in avoiding drugs.

    Educational attainment does help avoiding arrest, but IQ is even more important if you want to avoid being arrested.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with "screwing up." Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    I suppose, but why would you do that? Obviously the low-IQ people who do make it all the way through college and the low-IQ people who do don’t go to all the trouble are going to be different. I’m actually surprised that the low-IQ people who went to college didn’t have a lower rate of injecting drugs than the high-IQ people who did. After all, they would have to be more conscientious than the kind of people who could have skated through on natural talent alone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    My sense is people just assimilate to the norms of their peer group.

    However, being on a good career track provides incentives not to screw up and other types of positive reinforcement. So if you have a dumb kid, it's still important to get him/her on the right track. That could mean the difference between him becoming a loser (addicted, poor, unemployed) and a decently-paid office drone.
  36. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd guess Trayvon's main problem wasn't his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent. Which led towards his confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.
     
    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.
     
    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it's easy to graduate.

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it's really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    In my office, my boss (who makes $170,000/yr) mostly just sits in meetings, sends e-mails, and retrieves information. I could've done his job when I was in junior high. However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn't trade places.

    I have a friend who used to be an investment-banker. Do you know what he did? Spreadsheets all day.

    I'm serious that there are lots of high-paying jobs out there if you're a low-IQ grind with a good degree.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?
     
    Asians and Indians. Combined they're over 40% of humanity.

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.
     
    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I'm telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I'm serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice. That's not good, especially when all these HBDers consider themselves geniuses.

    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment.

    Well, since we’ll never really know what he was actually like before he got shot, it’s hard to say. But I can pretty much guess that he was never going to be an astronaut even if he had a totally normal family.

    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    No, it appears as though they’re lowering standards now.

    Hey, if that works, why not just lower them all the way, and just make everyone go to college, and make it even easier than high school? Then Half Sigma could show us that everyone’s life will turn out great.

    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it’s easy to graduate.

    Well, engineering is a career track that correlates pretty highly with success, isn’t it? Are the grading standards of pre-med pretty low?

    However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn’t trade places.

    Yeah, and I doubt that most kids who had to sweat their way through pre-algebra really would either. That was kind of my point.

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.

    Then I would think the the fact that nowhere near 40% of the world’s population are doctors and dentists would kind of make you think your analysis might have missed something.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I’m serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice.

    OK, well, I guess I didn’t mean random commenters. Hopefully you wouldn’t take career advice from random blog commenters. At least not exclusively.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Well, since we’ll never really know what he was actually like before he got shot, it’s hard to say. But I can pretty much guess that he was never going to be an astronaut even if he had a totally normal family.
     
    Okay, but what percent of the posters here are astronauts?

    If Trayvon had a better upbringing and grew up in an area with fewer lower class people, he probably would've avoided his confrontation with Zimmerman. He would've graduated from high school. If he got enough push, he would've graduated from college with some degree. Then maybe he could've done something clerical with the govt.

    There are lots of marginal people who make good money. Among blacks, women often do better than men. I'd assume mostly because black culture puts too much on black men being a tough "bad ass" who doesn't take disrespect, which results in lots of them making bad life choices.

    No, it appears as though they’re lowering standards now.


     
    There are still plenty of majors for which you still have to pass the same capstone classes that you would've decades ago. There are lots of low/medium IQ kids who are doing the same work as the higher-IQ kids, but this wasn't the case a few decades ago. Mostly because people understand that these days, a college degree is necessary to enter the middle-class.

    Hey, if that works, why not just lower them all the way, and just make everyone go to college, and make it even easier than high school? Then Half Sigma could show us that everyone’s life will turn out great.
     
    HalfSigma found that after controlling for education, there was no IQ-income correlation. So it's a rational decision for a low-IQ kid to think about college. Whether it's good or bad for society, well that's a different story.

    I did an analysis of the General Social Survey data. I compared the income of people with 75 IQ and a college degree against 125 IQ people with no college degree. The 75-IQ, college-degree people out earned the 125 IQ, no-degree people

    So even if your IQ is 75, it pays to get a college degree. You can still earn a middle-class income and be employed in a good job.

    Then I would think the the fact that nowhere near 40% of the world’s population are doctors and dentists would kind of make you think your analysis might have missed something.
     
    40% of the world's population are in cultures in which 85-IQ kids get pushed to be doctors and dentists. That doesn't imply those countries have seats for every kid.

    China and India, despite their enormous poverty, do produce enormous numbers of engineers. So my analysis is correct. Tiger parents can push lots of dumb kids to get college degrees.

    OK, well, I guess I didn’t mean random commenters. Hopefully you wouldn’t take career advice from random blog commenters. At least not exclusively.
     
    There are people who would. If they visited HBD sites like this, they'd get the idea that a low-IQ person should avoid college and become a carpenter. When, in reality, the low-IQ kid should go to college and work for a big company.
  37. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @27 year old
    >I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.

    here's a question - why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?

    here’s a question – why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?

    It probably wouldn’t, if you were average or above-average in IQ.

    I sometimes wonder if people on these sites ever even interact with 85 IQ people. I’m talking about people who can barely understand a simple newspaper article. People who were flummoxed by balancing a checkbook, back before the banks had websites that just did it for you.

    I know these people. I don’t envy them in any way. I suppose, if they were going to work hard enough, they could become doctors, but you’re talking about a LOT of work.

    It’s like saying how, if short guys train hard enough, they might still become NBA players. OK, well, maybe, but it’s going to take a lot more out of them. The number of people willing to do all that is going to be pretty small.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    An 85 IQ kid can't become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    If he didn't go to college, he'd probably do minimum wage work for life.
  38. Jefferson says:

    “Northeast Asians (105),”

    Why isn’t Mainland China a 1st World Magic Dirt country if their average IQ is 105? That 105 must only apply to the Chinese elites, not the masses. Mainland China has a lower Human Development Index than Brazil.

    Mainland China’s dirt does not impress anybody.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Firstly because China have 1,3 billion ''souls'' there... It's not easy manage 3,5 x of amurrican population.
  39. utu says:

    James Watson figures no more than 15 years until the main genes driving IQ scores are nailed down.

    He was wrong. No single SNP account for more then 1-3% heritability in height (the heritability gap). The same is true for IQ, I think. I think it took over 1 mil SNP’s to replicate the 80% heritability number for height.

    To approach classical twin studies heritability results it takes 100′s of 1000′s of SNP’s using GCTA algorithm which, imo, should be scrutinized more closely as it has a potential to way “overfit”. So far most users of it are aficionados of the method so we will have to wait for awhile before knowledgeable critics emerge. It seems mind blowing that from N= 3000 IQ’s (dependent variable) and M=over million SNP’s (independent variables) you can arrive at something w/o overfitting.

    Read More
  40. utu says:

    It means that identical twins tend to be more similar in intelligence than fraternal twins, who are more alike than first cousins, and so forth.

    To get a feel for it I was wondering how the correlation between relatives translates into the differences in IQ between them. What is IQ difference between twins or parent and child?

    I took correlations from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
    I calculate standard deviation of difference of X-axis and Y-axis IQ’s.

    St.Dev.(∆IQ)=15*sqrt(2)*sqrt(1-r)

    Same person (tested twice) r=.95 St.Dev.(∆IQ)=4.7
    Identical twins—Reared apart r=.76 St.Dev.(∆IQ)=10.4
    Fraternal twins—Reared together r= .55 St.Dev.(∆IQ)=14.2
    Parent-child—Living together r=.42 St.Dev.(∆IQ)=16.2

    Your second IQ test will differ form the first by less than 4.7 point with 68% confidence level. I read somewhere that actually this correlation is smaller than 0.95. It should be used for estimate of uncertainty of any heritability studies.

    A chance that parent-child IQ is greater that 16.2 is 32%. That is a pretty big number. But if you are IQ=100 person then picking a child randomly instead of raising it yourself might give you a smarter kid. Its IQ will differ by less than 15 from yours with 68% confidence level rather than 16.2 if the kid is yours. Is it strange?

    Did I get it right?

    Read More
  41. @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd guess Trayvon's main problem wasn't his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent. Which led towards his confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.
     
    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.
     
    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it's easy to graduate.

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it's really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    In my office, my boss (who makes $170,000/yr) mostly just sits in meetings, sends e-mails, and retrieves information. I could've done his job when I was in junior high. However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn't trade places.

    I have a friend who used to be an investment-banker. Do you know what he did? Spreadsheets all day.

    I'm serious that there are lots of high-paying jobs out there if you're a low-IQ grind with a good degree.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?
     
    Asians and Indians. Combined they're over 40% of humanity.

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.
     
    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I'm telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I'm serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice. That's not good, especially when all these HBDers consider themselves geniuses.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    I get the impression that it is not innate to the culture. They are being pushed by their high-achieving parents. Of course, that impression is based on this single video clip (NSFW dialogue advisory).

    Read More
  42. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Here are the arrest rates by WORDSUM vocabulary score (General Social Survey).

    Percent Ever Arrested

    0 13.1%
    1: 14.0%
    2: 11.3%
    3: 14.1%
    4: 15.4%
    5: 14.2%
    6: 14.0%
    7: 10.9%
    8: 12.1%
    9: 9.1%
    10: 7.8%

    Percent Ever Injected Drugs

    0 3.9%
    1: 8.2%
    2: 3.9%
    3: 2.4%
    4: 3.3%
    5: 3.4%
    6: 3.9%
    7: 3.2%
    8: 2.1%
    9: 2.0%
    10: 3.1%

    Percent Arrested by Degree

    HS Dropout: 13.6
    High School Graduate: 12.5
    Junior College: 12.7
    BA: 11.2
    Masters: 8.2

    Percent Injected by Degree

    HS Dropout: 4.2
    High School Graduate: 3.5
    Junior College: 2.9
    BA: 1.5
    Masters: 0.9

    Here's something interesting.

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 5.1
    High School Graduate: 3.7
    Junior College: 4.0
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.0

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 6.0
    High School Graduate: 3.3
    Junior College: 3.2
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.9

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.


    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 14.8
    Junior College: 11.1
    BA: 13.3
    Masters: 12.6

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 10.0
    Junior College: 9.9
    BA: 10.2
    Masters: 8.7

    This suggests that IQ is protective against getting arrested.

    Conclusion:

    Having a high IQ doesn't seem to help people avoid drugs. Educational attainment is a strong factor in avoiding drugs.

    Educational attainment does help avoiding arrest, but IQ is even more important if you want to avoid being arrested.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with "screwing up." Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with “screwing up.” Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.

    Sounds a bit cart before horse. I would say that it takes good self-discipline to get on a “career track” in the first place.

    Read More
  43. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd guess Trayvon's main problem wasn't his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent. Which led towards his confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.
     
    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.
     
    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it's easy to graduate.

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it's really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    In my office, my boss (who makes $170,000/yr) mostly just sits in meetings, sends e-mails, and retrieves information. I could've done his job when I was in junior high. However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn't trade places.

    I have a friend who used to be an investment-banker. Do you know what he did? Spreadsheets all day.

    I'm serious that there are lots of high-paying jobs out there if you're a low-IQ grind with a good degree.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?
     
    Asians and Indians. Combined they're over 40% of humanity.

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.
     
    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I'm telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I'm serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice. That's not good, especially when all these HBDers consider themselves geniuses.

    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent.

    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities……

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it’s really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    Dunno. What do you mean by “low IQ?” Low for Black Americans is below 85…….I’m not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker……

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.

    So, if 40% of the planet’s population got a degree in dentistry…..

    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I’m telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    Again, how low is low? Low for Whites? Blacks? Mestizos?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Asians and Indians? Combined? Are you then counting the Indians twice?

    I hear organisms and plants combined account for a lot of the world's biomass.

    , @JohnnyWalker123

    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities……
     
    Probably, but I think black culture is a major factor too. Growing up near a large black urban population probably pushes a lot of young blacks to be even more violent.

    So, if 40% of the planet’s population got a degree in dentistry…..
     
    The market would be flooded with dentists.

    India and China are flooded with college grads, despite being poor third world nations. If they had first world income, I bet the majority of parents would finance their kids getting a degree.

    From my experience with Indians and Chinese, even the 80 IQ kids go to college.

    Dunno. What do you mean by “low IQ?” Low for Black Americans is below 85…….I’m not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker……
     
    The term "low IQ people" is too vague. I should've said 100-IQ. I think for many high-paying careers (management, finance, consulting) the lowest cut off IQ is around 100-105. Though if your IQ is that low, you need to work really hard and have good interpersonal skills.

    You might not believe me, but it's true. I once had a manager (with a MBA and a six-figure salary) who didn't know what depreciation was. I know another guy who made millions as a broker and his IQ is, at best, average.
  44. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Career track also has a strong influence on income.

    Blogger HalfSigma (now known as LionoftheBlogsphere) found that after controlling for education, there's no IQ-income correlation. Actually, at the high-end of the IQ range, the correlation becomes NEGATIVE.

    He found that the main benefit of high-IQ is that it allows you to obtain credentials neccessary for entering a high-paying career track. However, once you enter that track, your success doesn't correlate with IQ. So if you take an average high-IQ college-graduate and compare him against an average equally-credential low-IQ college-graduate, there'd be no difference in income.

    So it's the career track (and the credentials for entry) that matter for income. Not your actual IQ. IQ is neccessary only as a means to get the credential.

    This suggests that if you're a low-IQ kid, you should grind really hard and get a college degree. Then you can earn the same as your higher-IQ classmates.

    This also suggests that if you're high-IQ , you should definitely keep accumulating credentials. Dropping out (to start a business or work for someone) in the hopes of being successful is, probably, a bad idea.

    For years, lots of HBD posters have been giving the advice that kids should skip college to start their own business or be a blue collar tradesman. They've often claimed that even high IQ people "don't need college" since their IQ is high.

    The reality is that everyone should attempt to maximize their educational credentials, regardless of their abilities or IQ. That's the rational decision if you want to get ahead in today's America.

    Charles Murray wrote an article about how lower-IQ high school students should not attend college and would economically be better off learning a trade. This is horrible advice. Unfortunately, you see a lot of this type of thing on some HBD sites.

    Someone wrote a detailed analysis of how college still makes financial sense even for low-IQ people.

    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/09/college-is-still-best-pay-off.php

    By the way, there's this mistaken view that labor market are highly efficient and select the best person for the job. This is incorrect. Most firms screen out people without the proper degree. Even if you have the right work experience and can demonstrate proficiency/skills, lots of employers will refuse to hire you.

    Is this rational? No, but most employers have inefficient HR departments and irrational hiring policies. This is a reality of the modern job market. Elite employers are especially irrational. For example, if you apply to a Venture Capital firm, they won't hire you if you don't have an Ivy League BA or MBA. Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm's investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let's say PHD from MIT), they'll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it's how the labor market works.

    Amy Chua-style parents, who start plotting their child's success early in life, can be very helpful in getting into the right university, which then helps getting into a lucrative career track.

    In conclusion, if you want to be successful, get good educational credentials and get on a good career track. Don't worry about your IQ, it's really not that important.

    What are the good career tracks? Medicine and dentistry. Extremely high income and roughly 0% unemployment.

    If you're willing to work super long hours, finance (i-banking, hedge funds, private equity, venture capital), BIG LAW (top law firms), and elite management consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain) can be very lucrative too. Of course, those elite finance/consulting/BIGLAW firms hire exclusively from Ivy Leagues.

    If you've missed the MD/DDS and finance/consulting/BIGLAW trains, the next best path is govt work. Govt workers are surprisingly well-paid, the benefits are good, the job security is high, promotions are easy, competition is minimal, and you can be lazy without getting fired. Also, you get to mix around with powerful people, which brings social status. Firefighting (especially in Southern California) has to be one of the best govt jobs available. For example, the average Orange County firefighter makes $140,000. Not bad.

    Summary:

    -Credentials and Career Track decide your economic success, not your IQ
    -It makes sense for everyone to grind away to maximize their IQ credentials
    -HBDers who tell people to skip college are giving bad advice
    -Even low-IQ people should get college degrees
    -Ignore Charles Murray and listen to Amy Chua
    -Once you get a college degree, you can enter a well-paying career track and make a lot of $$$
    -Healthcare (MD, DDS) and Ivy League careers (finance, consulting, BIG LAW) pay really well
    -Howevever, if you missed the train, go work for the govt. As John Derbyshire frequently says, "get a government job."
    -SoCal firefighters have it particularly good

    Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm’s investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let’s say PHD from MIT), they’ll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it’s how the labor market works.

    On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State…..
     
    I hope they would.

    The point is that the labor market is often inefficient and bizarre. The Yale English BA can go to Venture Capital, but the MIT PHD can't. This is despite the PHD's engineering skills being far more relevant to VC tech investments than the English BA.

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?

    http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2015/12/new-phd-incomes-surprisingly-low

    The point is that IQ and even skills are not as important as people think. If you want to make money, you need to get on the right career track. Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking) than a high-IQ kid with an engineering PHD. Better to be either of the two (Goldman banker or engineering PHD) than a genius-IQ kid with no degree.
  45. @Pat Boyle
    This is all very sad. IQ tests are a force for good in the world. But because there are millions of blacks in America who have such low IQs, there has grown up an organized resistance to mental measurement.

    When I was in Junior High I was a not very bright little fat kid. All around me were the taller and hairier early bloomers. I was in a lot of fights. But I outgrew my competition. By the time I was six two the tough guys were less eager to pick on me. I kept growing until I was in my mid twenties when I reached six four.

    I was never in the 'smart' track in Junior High or early in High School either, but I began to change. I knew I was changing because of standardized tests. Every time I took a test I seemed to do better than I had the time before. I started getting in the high ninetieth percentiles on all the general ability tests. That changed my perception of self. I would look around the classroom and think - 'I'm the smartest person in the room'. That's what the tests revealed and I believed them.

    Public schools have one overriding virtue. A public classroom gives you your first idea as to where you rank in the great competition of life. I had always seen myself as in the lower half, but standardized tests gave me a different perspective.

    IQ tests revealed to me the person I was becoming to be.

    I haven’t seen much comment on studies regarding speed of development and its effect on outcomes. I suspect it’s important. Without a signal to reward developing intelligence and encourage personal investment, many bright kids would get buried.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Agreed. Most commentary I have seen about this has been about physical attributes/sports. Some examples are studies showing birthdate advantages in youth sports with age cutoffs--which then carry over into adult outcomes. Another example is black/white developmental differences posited as factors in overrepresentation of blacks in sports like basketball or given as an alternative to the environmental hypothesis of why the black/white test score gap increases with age.

    Does anyone have references for studies of differences in speed of development? Especially intellectual?

    P.S. Pat Boyle, thanks for your story. It is interesting to hear about a test score trajectory like that. Any comments about how your parents reacted to all of that? Presumably they were quite smart?
  46. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Here are the arrest rates by WORDSUM vocabulary score (General Social Survey).

    Percent Ever Arrested

    0 13.1%
    1: 14.0%
    2: 11.3%
    3: 14.1%
    4: 15.4%
    5: 14.2%
    6: 14.0%
    7: 10.9%
    8: 12.1%
    9: 9.1%
    10: 7.8%

    Percent Ever Injected Drugs

    0 3.9%
    1: 8.2%
    2: 3.9%
    3: 2.4%
    4: 3.3%
    5: 3.4%
    6: 3.9%
    7: 3.2%
    8: 2.1%
    9: 2.0%
    10: 3.1%

    Percent Arrested by Degree

    HS Dropout: 13.6
    High School Graduate: 12.5
    Junior College: 12.7
    BA: 11.2
    Masters: 8.2

    Percent Injected by Degree

    HS Dropout: 4.2
    High School Graduate: 3.5
    Junior College: 2.9
    BA: 1.5
    Masters: 0.9

    Here's something interesting.

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 5.1
    High School Graduate: 3.7
    Junior College: 4.0
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.0

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 6.0
    High School Graduate: 3.3
    Junior College: 3.2
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.9

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.


    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 14.8
    Junior College: 11.1
    BA: 13.3
    Masters: 12.6

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 10.0
    Junior College: 9.9
    BA: 10.2
    Masters: 8.7

    This suggests that IQ is protective against getting arrested.

    Conclusion:

    Having a high IQ doesn't seem to help people avoid drugs. Educational attainment is a strong factor in avoiding drugs.

    Educational attainment does help avoiding arrest, but IQ is even more important if you want to avoid being arrested.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with "screwing up." Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    I also wanted to say that I really don’t know if this is a fair criterion to use.

    After all, even the people who inject drugs don’t think it’s a good idea, do they? Shooting up heroin isn’t like investing in penny stocks or a pyramid scheme or whatever. There’s not even the hope of a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, so it seems like injecting drugs would be more correlated with depression and hopelessness than with intelligence. Knowing the intellectual arguments against doing it doesn’t seem like it would matter if you’ve already given up on life anyway, and if you haven’t given up, it’s pretty common knowledge where it leads, so you probably wouldn’t do it anyway.

    I don’t think anyone has ever denied that there are plenty of high IQ people who are also cursed with chemical imbalances that lead to depression.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    High-IQ people more likely to use drugs and alcohol.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/115802/intelligence-and-drinking-studies-say-theres-correlation

    When Kanazawa analyzed data on UK children, he found that link. Drawing on the results of the National Child Development Study, which tracked for 50 years all British babies born during one week in March 1958, Kanazawa found that kids who scored higher on IQ tests grew up to drink larger quantities of alcohol on a more regular basis than their less intelligent peers. He evaluated other factors, including religion, frequency of church attendance, social class, parents’ education and self-reported satisfaction with life, and found that intelligence before age 16 was second only to gender in predicting alcohol consumption at age 23. In Kanazawa’s model, illicit drugs constitute another evolutionarily novel experience—and he (and others) have also found a link between high IQ and experimentation with drugs. In Kanazawa’s study, the higher a respondent’s IQ before age 16, the more psychoactive substances he or she had tried by age 42. Another study found that 30-year-old women who had earned high scores on an IQ test at age five were more than twice as likely to have smoked weed or used cocaine in the previous year; men who had scored highly on IQ tests as children were 50 percent more likely to have recently consumed amphetamines or ecstasy.
     
  47. @Steve Sailer
    The pre-med heartbreaker class is supposed to be Organic Chemistry, which is a lot of memorization rather than a lot of theory or math.

    Yes, it’s remarkable how much success in medical school and placing into a residency depends to this day almost entirely on memorization.

    The so-called “Step” tests — which more than any other metric determines where a medical student will do his/her residency — are tests of memory and little more, beyond some very rudimentary ability to think scientifically.

    The profession is now pretending to embrace a “problem-solving” paradigm, but there is no serious “problem-solving” in the Step tests — just brute force memorization (unlike the MCAT exam, used for admission to medical school, which does indeed test analytical abilities).

    It’s really something of a disgrace — little wonder that so many MDs seem to reason like idiots. God forbid you should ask them a question that requires an understanding of statistics — even though the papers in their own field express their results in statistical terms, of course.

    Read More
  48. OT:

    The Asian group that is suing Harvard University over its admissions practices subpoenaed four top feeder high schools that supply students to Harvard – Boston Latin School, Monta Vista High in Silicon Valley, Stuyvesant High in New York City, and Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in Fairfax County, VA. Both Monta Vista and Stuyvesant have complied with the subpoena while the two schools that have holistic admissions, Boston Latin and TJHSST, filed motions to quash the subpoena. A federal judge has ordered Boston Latin to comply with the subpeona.

    In the last 10 years the number of white students applying to TJHSST has dropped from 1340 to 763, while Asian applicants have increased from 975 to 1593. Of the students who received offers to the class of 2021, 74.9% were Asian. Supposedly there was a sophmore cheating ring earlier this school year. Many students fail to graduate from TJHSST and are sent back to their home school. The class of 2020 had at least 480 seats but only filled about 450 even after going through the entire waitlist.

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/4/25/high-schools-subpoena-admissions/

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/5/10/bls-documents-admissions-lawsuit/

    http://www.fcag.org/tjadmits2007.html

    https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-offers-admission-tjhsst-490-students

    http://www.fcag.org/documents/FCAG+TJHSST+2016+Handout+FINAL.pdf

    Read More
  49. @Inquiring Mind
    From my small number of degrees of separation from medical training, there is an enormous body of material you need to learn. It isn't simply memorizing scientific or medical facts, but it isn't anywhere as deep with respect to problem solving or reasoning about novel situations as mathematics or engineering.

    Some people are able to do the reading, absorb the knowledge, and pass the exams. If you don't have that natural aptitude, it would indeed require serious if not bizarre determination.

    A guy I know who has been dean of a medical school for a long time had some interesting insights.

    He said that the school he has run has changed both admissions policies and well as teaching methods considerably to lessen reliance on rote memorization. With medical facts, papers, cases and texts all easily looked up on a smartphone in today’s world, his school has changed teaching and testing methods to better emphasize the kind of complex systems thinking needed to be a good diagnostician and a doctor managing the course of disease and cure. He also remarked that his institution has had remarkable success in a small pilot project of admitting engineering grads to the medical school—he remarked that they have exactly the kind of hands-on empirical problem solving and systems thinking that are the makings of a good doctor. The problem, he said, was that medical certification exams are yet to catch up, so the students need to do a lot of rote memorization at some stage in their education, regardless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    It's impossible to avoid memorization in medicine unless you're willing to put up with the inefficiency of a doctor who looks up a bunch of things before making diagnoses, ordering meds, etc. There's just too many facts. Take just a handful of medicines some time and look up their indications, interactions, and side effects. It's a lot.
    , @27 year old
    Your friend sounds like a smart guy.
  50. @PiltdownMan
    A guy I know who has been dean of a medical school for a long time had some interesting insights.

    He said that the school he has run has changed both admissions policies and well as teaching methods considerably to lessen reliance on rote memorization. With medical facts, papers, cases and texts all easily looked up on a smartphone in today's world, his school has changed teaching and testing methods to better emphasize the kind of complex systems thinking needed to be a good diagnostician and a doctor managing the course of disease and cure. He also remarked that his institution has had remarkable success in a small pilot project of admitting engineering grads to the medical school—he remarked that they have exactly the kind of hands-on empirical problem solving and systems thinking that are the makings of a good doctor. The problem, he said, was that medical certification exams are yet to catch up, so the students need to do a lot of rote memorization at some stage in their education, regardless.

    It’s impossible to avoid memorization in medicine unless you’re willing to put up with the inefficiency of a doctor who looks up a bunch of things before making diagnoses, ordering meds, etc. There’s just too many facts. Take just a handful of medicines some time and look up their indications, interactions, and side effects. It’s a lot.

    Read More
  51. There’s something wrong here. Since the 1970s, I’ve met many foreign blacks, some from Africa and some from the Caribbean or Europe, and they are almost always more intelligent than the American blacks I’ve met. In fact, this is so pronounced that when I meet an American black who seems impressive in terms of intelligence, I assume that one or both parents are foreign.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    Have a look at this photo: http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/news/0037188-cuacs-picture-of-black-men-of-cambridge-gathers-massive-support.html

    The names are at the bottom of the article. All have African names, except one light skinned guy. None have West Indian names. West Indians are slightly more populous than Africans in the UK, and tend to copy African American culture.
  52. ”I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence.”

    In the alternative world of Steve and their red cops intelligence never interact with psychological traits to produce kindness, conscientiousness or honesty while in the world without permanent and irrational biases they are always interacting one each other, in the way it’s difficult to say ”kindness is not part of intelligence, intelligence is not part of kindness”, but in the alternative world of Steve’s everything they want to be is possible, sad!

    Descartes doing school.

    Yes, supposed to be positive ”psychological traits” together is more important than intelligence, aka iq, but here in the epicenter of iqism, iq is a trend topics in 95% of time and it’s explicitly communicated while other traits many times are treated as pathological, altruism for example, or they are implicitly communicated, for example, the ridiculous and absolutely primitive behavior of certain ”’ones”’.

    True intelligence is integrated with ”missing” features: psychological ones. But because MOST of so called smarter ones are not more rational ”we” have that impression that, in the end, intelligence is only cognition.

    it’s a teacher mindset conceptualizing intelligence, sad!!

    Psychological traits allied with so called ”intelligence” [cognition] are extremely useful to

    detect predators, for example.

    The spider and its web = cognition, what hdds call ”intelligence”

    The spider and its integral capacity to perceive and interact with its sorrounding world, and one of the most important: detect predators/survival = true intelligence.

    Read More
  53. @Steve Sailer
    The pre-med heartbreaker class is supposed to be Organic Chemistry, which is a lot of memorization rather than a lot of theory or math.

    Right – the point of my question is why do we select doctors based on their ability to memorize the phone book?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Probably because memorization gets you to the right solution in the vast majority of cases. And not just in medicine. What percentage of chess mastery, for example, is memorization? I'd guess a huge part of it.
  54. @PiltdownMan
    A guy I know who has been dean of a medical school for a long time had some interesting insights.

    He said that the school he has run has changed both admissions policies and well as teaching methods considerably to lessen reliance on rote memorization. With medical facts, papers, cases and texts all easily looked up on a smartphone in today's world, his school has changed teaching and testing methods to better emphasize the kind of complex systems thinking needed to be a good diagnostician and a doctor managing the course of disease and cure. He also remarked that his institution has had remarkable success in a small pilot project of admitting engineering grads to the medical school—he remarked that they have exactly the kind of hands-on empirical problem solving and systems thinking that are the makings of a good doctor. The problem, he said, was that medical certification exams are yet to catch up, so the students need to do a lot of rote memorization at some stage in their education, regardless.

    Your friend sounds like a smart guy.

    Read More
  55. res says:
    @Neil Templeton
    I haven't seen much comment on studies regarding speed of development and its effect on outcomes. I suspect it's important. Without a signal to reward developing intelligence and encourage personal investment, many bright kids would get buried.

    Agreed. Most commentary I have seen about this has been about physical attributes/sports. Some examples are studies showing birthdate advantages in youth sports with age cutoffs–which then carry over into adult outcomes. Another example is black/white developmental differences posited as factors in overrepresentation of blacks in sports like basketball or given as an alternative to the environmental hypothesis of why the black/white test score gap increases with age.

    Does anyone have references for studies of differences in speed of development? Especially intellectual?

    P.S. Pat Boyle, thanks for your story. It is interesting to hear about a test score trajectory like that. Any comments about how your parents reacted to all of that? Presumably they were quite smart?

    Read More
  56. @JohnnyWalker123

    Q. Isn’t character more important than intelligence?

    A. I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence. (Of course, when it comes to making money, less endearing personality traits like aggressiveness also play a big role, but we’ll leave that aside for now.)
     
    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn't as important as everyone here thinks. I'd attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence. Why do you think the Tiger Cubs are so successful? IQ?

    Being ruthless, devious, sociopathic, and cunning matters a lot too. If you want to succeed at office politics, you need to be good at backstabbing and rear end kissing. Trust me, that correlates far, far more with managment-track promotions than IQ. I'd even guess that IQ might have a slightly negative correlation with getting the management promotion.

    If you're an entrepreneur and work for yourself, ruthlessness and deviousness can be important too. You can't be afraid to work your employees as hard as neccessary (while paying as little as possible) and fire them remorseley when they become unneeded. When the time comes to take someone to court (former employee, creditor, supplier, business partner, customer), you have to be willing to do that rather than "forgive" them. Most good entrepreneurs know how to use accounting regulations to their advantage (ie declare every meal a "business lunch" and mark it as a "business expense").

    Here's another example. Let's say you're a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this. If you want to understand how common this practice is, I suggest this article about the profiteering doctors of McAllen, Texas.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum

    Since doctors are so trusted, they can use their reputation to shield themselves from public scrutiny. It takes a certain degree of ruthlessness and sociopathy to do that.

    Lots of affluent people (entrepreneurs, corporate employees, brokers, etc.) become successful through sales (what's also called "rainmaking"). How do you become a successful salesman? One way is by "overselling" (lying/exaggerating) the benefits of your good or service. You have to be willing to close, even when you know your product isn't right for the client or might even make the client worse off. Politicians are particularly adept at this "My fellow Americans, this increase in H-1B visas will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs."

    Question: Names 2 qualities that describe an honest saleman.
    Answer: Unemployed and broke

    I'm not saying that you neccessarily need machiavellian qualities to get ahead in life, but those qualities can certainly help. Especially if you want to become very affluent/successful. I'd guess those qualities are more important to success than IQ.

    This comment merits the famed gold box.

    Read More
  57. @syonredux

    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent.
     
    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities......

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it’s really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.
     
    Dunno. What do you mean by "low IQ?" Low for Black Americans is below 85.......I'm not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker......

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.
     
    So, if 40% of the planet's population got a degree in dentistry.....

    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I’m telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

     

    Again, how low is low? Low for Whites? Blacks? Mestizos?

    Asians and Indians? Combined? Are you then counting the Indians twice?

    I hear organisms and plants combined account for a lot of the world’s biomass.

    Read More
  58. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd guess Trayvon's main problem wasn't his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent. Which led towards his confrontation with George Zimmerman.

    It’s fine to tell the kid in remedial English to just work really hard and get himself into Harvard, and then he could be on Easy Street, and it won’t matter how dumb he is. Technically, it may very well be true, but you have to realize that it would take a level of drive most people really don’t have.
     
    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    Then, of course, we have lots of Asian/Indian immigrants these days. They are very much into grinding too.

    And it’s not just getting in to college either. He’s going to have to keep it up for four years, and then continue to struggle for the rest of his life to keep working as a doctor or dentist or whatever.
     
    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it's easy to graduate.

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it's really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.

    In my office, my boss (who makes $170,000/yr) mostly just sits in meetings, sends e-mails, and retrieves information. I could've done his job when I was in junior high. However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn't trade places.

    I have a friend who used to be an investment-banker. Do you know what he did? Spreadsheets all day.

    I'm serious that there are lots of high-paying jobs out there if you're a low-IQ grind with a good degree.

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?
     
    Asians and Indians. Combined they're over 40% of humanity.

    I don’t think any of the HBD people you talk about would say that you shouldn’t try to be a dentist if you really, really want to. Just that there are more realistic options out there for the vast majority of people who lack that (frankly bizarre) level of determination.
     
    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I'm telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I'm serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice. That's not good, especially when all these HBDers consider themselves geniuses.

    “I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment.”

    Filipinos on average have a similar or even lower IQ than Black Americans, yet Filipinos are significantly less violent than Black Americans.

    The out of control rate of violence in the African American community is due to their extremely high testosterone more so than their low IQs.

    Filipinos can’t compete with African Americans when it comes to high testosterone.

    Although the downside side effects of Filipino low IQ is that they tend to disproportionately be impulsive degenerate gamblers, blowing away their entire weekly paychecks at the casinos. Go to any casino in Northern California and the racial demographics resemble Little Manila. Gambling is to Filipinos like what alcohol is to the Scottish and the Irish.

    Every Filipino family has at least 1 family member who’s addiction to gambling is so bad that they need rehab to cure them of their disease.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Filipinos on average have a similar or even lower IQ than Black Americans, yet Filipinos are significantly less violent than Black Americans.
    The out of control rate of violence in the African American community is due to their extremely high testosterone more so than their low IQs.
    Filipinos can’t compete with African Americans when it comes to high testosterone.
     
    Filipinos have different personalities. Many of the immigrants are deferential and easy going. American-raised Filos often superficially imitate hip hop culture, but they're not especially violent or crime prone.

    Although the downside side effects of Filipino low IQ is that they tend to disproportionately be impulsive degenerate gamblers, blowing away their entire weekly paychecks at the casinos. Go to any casino in Northern California and the racial demographics resemble Little Manila. Gambling is to Filipinos like what alcohol is to the Scottish and the Irish.
    Every Filipino family has at least 1 family member who’s addiction to gambling is so bad that they need rehab to cure them of their disease.
     

    Lots of Chinese and Koreans are gamblers too. Not sure why.

    In addition to being gamblers, lots of Asian men are womanizers too.

    Contrary to what HBD teaches, the least likely to cheat (in a relationship) are not Asian men. Least likely to cheat are White men (due to WASP guilt) and Indian men (due to unattractiveness).

  59. @JohnnyWalker123

    Q. Isn’t character more important than intelligence?

    A. I believe so. Work ethic, honesty, conscientiousness, kindness, together they’re more important than intelligence. (Of course, when it comes to making money, less endearing personality traits like aggressiveness also play a big role, but we’ll leave that aside for now.)
     
    When it comes to money-making and getting ahead in life, IQ isn't as important as everyone here thinks. I'd attach more importance to traits like ambition, parental support/direction, and persistence. Why do you think the Tiger Cubs are so successful? IQ?

    Being ruthless, devious, sociopathic, and cunning matters a lot too. If you want to succeed at office politics, you need to be good at backstabbing and rear end kissing. Trust me, that correlates far, far more with managment-track promotions than IQ. I'd even guess that IQ might have a slightly negative correlation with getting the management promotion.

    If you're an entrepreneur and work for yourself, ruthlessness and deviousness can be important too. You can't be afraid to work your employees as hard as neccessary (while paying as little as possible) and fire them remorseley when they become unneeded. When the time comes to take someone to court (former employee, creditor, supplier, business partner, customer), you have to be willing to do that rather than "forgive" them. Most good entrepreneurs know how to use accounting regulations to their advantage (ie declare every meal a "business lunch" and mark it as a "business expense").

    Here's another example. Let's say you're a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this. If you want to understand how common this practice is, I suggest this article about the profiteering doctors of McAllen, Texas.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/06/01/the-cost-conundrum

    Since doctors are so trusted, they can use their reputation to shield themselves from public scrutiny. It takes a certain degree of ruthlessness and sociopathy to do that.

    Lots of affluent people (entrepreneurs, corporate employees, brokers, etc.) become successful through sales (what's also called "rainmaking"). How do you become a successful salesman? One way is by "overselling" (lying/exaggerating) the benefits of your good or service. You have to be willing to close, even when you know your product isn't right for the client or might even make the client worse off. Politicians are particularly adept at this "My fellow Americans, this increase in H-1B visas will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs."

    Question: Names 2 qualities that describe an honest saleman.
    Answer: Unemployed and broke

    I'm not saying that you neccessarily need machiavellian qualities to get ahead in life, but those qualities can certainly help. Especially if you want to become very affluent/successful. I'd guess those qualities are more important to success than IQ.

    Let’s say you’re a doctor and you partially own your own practice. You can perform a lot of unneccessary, high-reimbursement procedures on your patients and bill Medicare/Medicaid/insurers. Many studies have found that doctors often pad their income by doing this.

    Or they’ll do a medically necessary procedure in an unnecessarily expensive way.

    In college I had two small cysts removed. For the first one I was referred to an Indian-American guy (no accent) in his 40′s. He had me put under general anesthesia and performed the procedure in one of the university hospital’s operating rooms with at least four people assisting him. The procedure, covered by my student health insurance, cost $13,000.

    A couple of years later I needed the same procedure done again – another small cyst on the same part of my body. This time I was referred to a different doctor, a Korean-American guy, maybe late 20′s. He was appalled, but not all that surprised, when I told him that last time I’d had this done I’d been put under general anesthesia. He injected the affected area with lidocaine and did the procedure in five minutes with one nursing assistant present, in-office. I think the bill was between $250 and $300.

    Read More
  60. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @27 year old
    Right - the point of my question is why do we select doctors based on their ability to memorize the phone book?

    Probably because memorization gets you to the right solution in the vast majority of cases. And not just in medicine. What percentage of chess mastery, for example, is memorization? I’d guess a huge part of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    Yeah but are there any ubiquitous cheap devices that can kind of eliminate the need to memorize things?
  61. J1234 says:

    I personally believe that IQ is brandished and discussed way too much by some white advocates. The reasoning these people use as to why we shouldn’t commingle with blacks creates a de facto reasoning for why we should commingle with Asians.

    Read More
  62. @John Pepple
    There's something wrong here. Since the 1970s, I've met many foreign blacks, some from Africa and some from the Caribbean or Europe, and they are almost always more intelligent than the American blacks I've met. In fact, this is so pronounced that when I meet an American black who seems impressive in terms of intelligence, I assume that one or both parents are foreign.

    Have a look at this photo: http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/news/0037188-cuacs-picture-of-black-men-of-cambridge-gathers-massive-support.html

    The names are at the bottom of the article. All have African names, except one light skinned guy. None have West Indian names. West Indians are slightly more populous than Africans in the UK, and tend to copy African American culture.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    The light-skinned guy has a West Indian name - William Gore. Of course he may not be West Indian, might have an African mother and white father.

    All of the guys are not even British. At least one is a Nigerian immigrant student.

    Immigration policies result in the UK having West Indians that underperform the West Indians in the US. Just like the South Asians in the UK underperform the South Asians in the US. The Turks in Germany underperform the Turks in the US. This is all due to the selective nature of the immigration process.

    Outside of the entertainment industry, many successful US blacks are often descendants of Caribbean immigrants even though they are a small percentage of the black population.

    1st black Secretary of State - Colin Powell (Jamaican parents)
    1st black Congresswoman - Shirley Chisholm (parents from British Guiana and Barbados)
    1st black US Attorney General - Eric Holder (family from Barbados)
    Cousins Sherrilyn Ifill (NAACP legal counsel) and Gwen Ifill (anchor PBS Newshour) - (family from Panama by way of Barbados).
    Fox News journalist Juan Williams - (Panamanian)
    Author Malcolm Gladwell - Born in UK, raised in Canada, lives in US. (British father-mathematician, Jamaican mother-psychologist: University College London)

    The highly cited black British physicist Clifford Johnson teaches at the University of Southern California. He is from Montserrat. He moved to London in time to study for O-levels then A-levels. The only reason he didn't attend Cambridge or Oxford is because in those days they had a Latin or Greek requirement and Johnson had never studied either language. He went to Imperial College at London University.

  63. @Pat Boyle
    This is all very sad. IQ tests are a force for good in the world. But because there are millions of blacks in America who have such low IQs, there has grown up an organized resistance to mental measurement.

    When I was in Junior High I was a not very bright little fat kid. All around me were the taller and hairier early bloomers. I was in a lot of fights. But I outgrew my competition. By the time I was six two the tough guys were less eager to pick on me. I kept growing until I was in my mid twenties when I reached six four.

    I was never in the 'smart' track in Junior High or early in High School either, but I began to change. I knew I was changing because of standardized tests. Every time I took a test I seemed to do better than I had the time before. I started getting in the high ninetieth percentiles on all the general ability tests. That changed my perception of self. I would look around the classroom and think - 'I'm the smartest person in the room'. That's what the tests revealed and I believed them.

    Public schools have one overriding virtue. A public classroom gives you your first idea as to where you rank in the great competition of life. I had always seen myself as in the lower half, but standardized tests gave me a different perspective.

    IQ tests revealed to me the person I was becoming to be.

    Something tells me that it is not the low-IQ blacks but the high-IQ Jews who are the driving force behind the kiboshing of HBD awareness.

    (Useless trivia: It seems that kibosh comes from English slang, not Yiddish. The earliest citation is in Dickens. Who knew?)

    I was tall and hairy in middle school (and afterward), but my development was totally out of whack. I hit all of the early milestones well ahead of schedule. I was an only child, so my only real playmate was my cousin, two years my senior. (She was an only child, as well.) I did not attend pre-K.

    In kindergarten, I exhibited severe behavioral difficulties. (The principal told my mother that he’d never seen a more difficult child.) At the age of five, I was tested and was deemed eligible for a special program for gifted* students with behavioral and emotional problems. I attended this program from first through fifth grade. From sixth through eighth grade, I went to a “special” middle school.

    For my secondary education, I attended a “special” program at a normal high school. I was never fully mainstreamed, but by my senior year I only had one “special” class.

    In the halcyon days of my youth, I was a tall, hairy, fat kid with horrendous acne – huge boils all over my face and (especially) my back.

    Once, on a dare, I lifted up my shirt to a group of kids. The girls squealed so loudly that a teacher passing by assumed I’d exposed myself and reported me to the assistant principal. (I almost got in serious trouble, believe it or not.)

    Accutane was a Godsend.

    So, in summary, I wasn’t bullied, but I wasn’t dated, either. I was a freak – a “good” freak, I guess – and I spent a lot of time with freaks. Even though I was a loner, I felt a certain camaraderie with my fellow misfits.

    My social calendar was empty, so I spent a lot of time reading. It made me into the trivia hoarder I am today.

    After graduating, I obtained a bachelor’s degree in a non-STEM field. I was an extremely lazy student, and I graduated cum laude. (The whole thing struck me as a bit of a joke, really.)

    I drifted for a good long while after graduating. Having my life micromanaged by my mother and my (wealthy) grandmother didn’t help.

    *The cutoff for “gifted” was 130. My kindergarten score was in the high 140s, or so I’ve been told. This was in the late ’80s, mind you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Shocking that a regular reader of this blog is socially maladjusted
  64. syonredux says:

    Off-topic,

    Hilarious spoof article:

    Anatomical penises may exist, but as pre-operative transgendered women also have anatomical penises, the penis vis-à-vis maleness is an incoherent construct. We argue that the conceptual penis is better understood not as an anatomical organ but as a social construct isomorphic to performative toxic masculinity. Through detailed poststructuralist discursive criticism and the example of climate change, this paper will challenge the prevailing and damaging social trope that penises are best understood as the male sexual organ and reassign it a more fitting role as a type of masculine performance.

    https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/05/19/a-new-academic-hoax-a-bogus-paper-on-the-conceptual-penis-gets-published-in-a-high-quality-peer-reviewed-social-science-journal/

    Read More
  65. anonguy says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Here are the arrest rates by WORDSUM vocabulary score (General Social Survey).

    Percent Ever Arrested

    0 13.1%
    1: 14.0%
    2: 11.3%
    3: 14.1%
    4: 15.4%
    5: 14.2%
    6: 14.0%
    7: 10.9%
    8: 12.1%
    9: 9.1%
    10: 7.8%

    Percent Ever Injected Drugs

    0 3.9%
    1: 8.2%
    2: 3.9%
    3: 2.4%
    4: 3.3%
    5: 3.4%
    6: 3.9%
    7: 3.2%
    8: 2.1%
    9: 2.0%
    10: 3.1%

    Percent Arrested by Degree

    HS Dropout: 13.6
    High School Graduate: 12.5
    Junior College: 12.7
    BA: 11.2
    Masters: 8.2

    Percent Injected by Degree

    HS Dropout: 4.2
    High School Graduate: 3.5
    Junior College: 2.9
    BA: 1.5
    Masters: 0.9

    Here's something interesting.

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 5.1
    High School Graduate: 3.7
    Junior College: 4.0
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.0

    Percent Injected by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 6.0
    High School Graduate: 3.3
    Junior College: 3.2
    BA: 2.0
    Masters: 0.9

    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.


    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 0 -6, "LOW-MEDIUM IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 14.8
    Junior College: 11.1
    BA: 13.3
    Masters: 12.6

    Percent Arrested by Degree (Sample selected for WORDSUM 7 -10, "HIGH IQ")

    HS Dropout: 13.8
    High School Graduate: 10.0
    Junior College: 9.9
    BA: 10.2
    Masters: 8.7

    This suggests that IQ is protective against getting arrested.

    Conclusion:

    Having a high IQ doesn't seem to help people avoid drugs. Educational attainment is a strong factor in avoiding drugs.

    Educational attainment does help avoiding arrest, but IQ is even more important if you want to avoid being arrested.

    So it seems that IQ has a strong influence over decision-making. However, career track also is very influential.

    Why?

    My guess is that being on a good career track makes one more aware of the consequences of your actions and the penalties associated with "screwing up." Also, being on a good career track usually results in a person being in a better environment.

    Let’s not forget that higher IQ people having lower arrest rates might simply mean that they use their intelligence to not get caught rather than higher IQ people are less likely to commit arrest-worthy offenses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Let’s not forget that higher IQ people having lower arrest rates might simply mean that they use their intelligence to not get caught rather than higher IQ people are less likely to commit arrest-worthy offenses.
     
    That was my sense, but I'm not sure how to prove it.
  66. @TelfoedJohn
    Have a look at this photo: http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/news/0037188-cuacs-picture-of-black-men-of-cambridge-gathers-massive-support.html

    The names are at the bottom of the article. All have African names, except one light skinned guy. None have West Indian names. West Indians are slightly more populous than Africans in the UK, and tend to copy African American culture.

    The light-skinned guy has a West Indian name – William Gore. Of course he may not be West Indian, might have an African mother and white father.

    All of the guys are not even British. At least one is a Nigerian immigrant student.

    Immigration policies result in the UK having West Indians that underperform the West Indians in the US. Just like the South Asians in the UK underperform the South Asians in the US. The Turks in Germany underperform the Turks in the US. This is all due to the selective nature of the immigration process.

    Outside of the entertainment industry, many successful US blacks are often descendants of Caribbean immigrants even though they are a small percentage of the black population.

    1st black Secretary of State – Colin Powell (Jamaican parents)
    1st black Congresswoman – Shirley Chisholm (parents from British Guiana and Barbados)
    1st black US Attorney General – Eric Holder (family from Barbados)
    Cousins Sherrilyn Ifill (NAACP legal counsel) and Gwen Ifill (anchor PBS Newshour) – (family from Panama by way of Barbados).
    Fox News journalist Juan Williams – (Panamanian)
    Author Malcolm Gladwell – Born in UK, raised in Canada, lives in US. (British father-mathematician, Jamaican mother-psychologist: University College London)

    The highly cited black British physicist Clifford Johnson teaches at the University of Southern California. He is from Montserrat. He moved to London in time to study for O-levels then A-levels. The only reason he didn’t attend Cambridge or Oxford is because in those days they had a Latin or Greek requirement and Johnson had never studied either language. He went to Imperial College at London University.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    What do you make of Caribbean performance in Canada? I get the impression it's more similar to UK Caribbean performance than Caribbean American performance.
  67. @syonredux

    Even if you have encyclopedic knowledge of firm’s investment industries and stellar grades from a top notch college (let’s say PHD from MIT), they’ll choose a Yale graduate with a BA in English. Is this rational? No, but it’s how the labor market works.
     
    On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State.....

    On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State…..

    I hope they would.

    The point is that the labor market is often inefficient and bizarre. The Yale English BA can go to Venture Capital, but the MIT PHD can’t. This is despite the PHD’s engineering skills being far more relevant to VC tech investments than the English BA.

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?

    http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2015/12/new-phd-incomes-surprisingly-low

    The point is that IQ and even skills are not as important as people think. If you want to make money, you need to get on the right career track. Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking) than a high-IQ kid with an engineering PHD. Better to be either of the two (Goldman banker or engineering PHD) than a genius-IQ kid with no degree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking)
     
    What do you mean by "low-IQ?" Below 100? I don't think that people with an IQ below 100 can get into the Ivy League.....
    , @res

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?
     
    Indeed. I found the numbers for scientists even more surprising with PhD biologists at $36k.

    However, you left out some highly relevant parts. For example:

    It’s likely that postdoc appointments are dampening earnings, most notably those of the biologists, the article’s authors note. If one considers only industrial salaries, they write, “the average earnings increase by one quarter (although the gap varies by field), with the highest earnings in mathematics and/or computer sciences (almost $90,000) and engineering (almost $80,000).”

     

    Also:

    from eight flagship midwestern state universities
     
    So there is a decent chance many are working in relatively low salary/cost of living locations.
  68. @anonguy
    Let's not forget that higher IQ people having lower arrest rates might simply mean that they use their intelligence to not get caught rather than higher IQ people are less likely to commit arrest-worthy offenses.

    Let’s not forget that higher IQ people having lower arrest rates might simply mean that they use their intelligence to not get caught rather than higher IQ people are less likely to commit arrest-worthy offenses.

    That was my sense, but I’m not sure how to prove it.

    Read More
  69. @Jefferson
    "I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment."

    Filipinos on average have a similar or even lower IQ than Black Americans, yet Filipinos are significantly less violent than Black Americans.

    The out of control rate of violence in the African American community is due to their extremely high testosterone more so than their low IQs.

    Filipinos can't compete with African Americans when it comes to high testosterone.

    Although the downside side effects of Filipino low IQ is that they tend to disproportionately be impulsive degenerate gamblers, blowing away their entire weekly paychecks at the casinos. Go to any casino in Northern California and the racial demographics resemble Little Manila. Gambling is to Filipinos like what alcohol is to the Scottish and the Irish.

    Every Filipino family has at least 1 family member who's addiction to gambling is so bad that they need rehab to cure them of their disease.

    Filipinos on average have a similar or even lower IQ than Black Americans, yet Filipinos are significantly less violent than Black Americans.
    The out of control rate of violence in the African American community is due to their extremely high testosterone more so than their low IQs.
    Filipinos can’t compete with African Americans when it comes to high testosterone.

    Filipinos have different personalities. Many of the immigrants are deferential and easy going. American-raised Filos often superficially imitate hip hop culture, but they’re not especially violent or crime prone.

    Although the downside side effects of Filipino low IQ is that they tend to disproportionately be impulsive degenerate gamblers, blowing away their entire weekly paychecks at the casinos. Go to any casino in Northern California and the racial demographics resemble Little Manila. Gambling is to Filipinos like what alcohol is to the Scottish and the Irish.
    Every Filipino family has at least 1 family member who’s addiction to gambling is so bad that they need rehab to cure them of their disease.

    Lots of Chinese and Koreans are gamblers too. Not sure why.

    In addition to being gamblers, lots of Asian men are womanizers too.

    Contrary to what HBD teaches, the least likely to cheat (in a relationship) are not Asian men. Least likely to cheat are White men (due to WASP guilt) and Indian men (due to unattractiveness).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Least likely to cheat are White men (due to WASP guilt)"

    So Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich are not WASPs? Are they Bulgarians?
  70. @anon
    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    I also wanted to say that I really don't know if this is a fair criterion to use.

    After all, even the people who inject drugs don't think it's a good idea, do they? Shooting up heroin isn't like investing in penny stocks or a pyramid scheme or whatever. There's not even the hope of a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, so it seems like injecting drugs would be more correlated with depression and hopelessness than with intelligence. Knowing the intellectual arguments against doing it doesn't seem like it would matter if you've already given up on life anyway, and if you haven't given up, it's pretty common knowledge where it leads, so you probably wouldn't do it anyway.

    I don't think anyone has ever denied that there are plenty of high IQ people who are also cursed with chemical imbalances that lead to depression.

    High-IQ people more likely to use drugs and alcohol.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/115802/intelligence-and-drinking-studies-say-theres-correlation

    When Kanazawa analyzed data on UK children, he found that link. Drawing on the results of the National Child Development Study, which tracked for 50 years all British babies born during one week in March 1958, Kanazawa found that kids who scored higher on IQ tests grew up to drink larger quantities of alcohol on a more regular basis than their less intelligent peers. He evaluated other factors, including religion, frequency of church attendance, social class, parents’ education and self-reported satisfaction with life, and found that intelligence before age 16 was second only to gender in predicting alcohol consumption at age 23. In Kanazawa’s model, illicit drugs constitute another evolutionarily novel experience—and he (and others) have also found a link between high IQ and experimentation with drugs. In Kanazawa’s study, the higher a respondent’s IQ before age 16, the more psychoactive substances he or she had tried by age 42. Another study found that 30-year-old women who had earned high scores on an IQ test at age five were more than twice as likely to have smoked weed or used cocaine in the previous year; men who had scored highly on IQ tests as children were 50 percent more likely to have recently consumed amphetamines or ecstasy.

    Read More
  71. @syonredux

    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment. He was taught to be thuggish and violent.
     
    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities......

    Sure you need brains to be a doctor or dentist, but it’s really not that hard to be an investment banker, corporate manager, or management consultant. Low IQ people can, with some hard work, fake competence in these careers and make a lot of money for themselves. Lots of careers are open to low IQ people that want to make money.
     
    Dunno. What do you mean by "low IQ?" Low for Black Americans is below 85.......I'm not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker......

    How many people really want to be a dentist that badly that they’re really going to go that route?

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.
     
    So, if 40% of the planet's population got a degree in dentistry.....

    HBD posters (and intellectuals like Charles Murray) tell low/medium IQ kids to skip college and become carpenters. I’m telling low/IQ medium kids to go to college and major in something easy, then become a corporate drone.

     

    Again, how low is low? Low for Whites? Blacks? Mestizos?

    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities……

    Probably, but I think black culture is a major factor too. Growing up near a large black urban population probably pushes a lot of young blacks to be even more violent.

    So, if 40% of the planet’s population got a degree in dentistry…..

    The market would be flooded with dentists.

    India and China are flooded with college grads, despite being poor third world nations. If they had first world income, I bet the majority of parents would finance their kids getting a degree.

    From my experience with Indians and Chinese, even the 80 IQ kids go to college.

    Dunno. What do you mean by “low IQ?” Low for Black Americans is below 85…….I’m not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker……

    The term “low IQ people” is too vague. I should’ve said 100-IQ. I think for many high-paying careers (management, finance, consulting) the lowest cut off IQ is around 100-105. Though if your IQ is that low, you need to work really hard and have good interpersonal skills.

    You might not believe me, but it’s true. I once had a manager (with a MBA and a six-figure salary) who didn’t know what depreciation was. I know another guy who made millions as a broker and his IQ is, at best, average.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @syonredux

    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities……

    Probably, but I think black culture is a major factor too.
     
    Maybe Black culture is violent because Blacks are innately more violent......Ron Unz seems to think so......

    So, if 40% of the planet’s population got a degree in dentistry…..

    The market would be flooded with dentists.
     
    Which means that lots of people with dental degrees would not be able to get jobs in the field of dentistry.....

    From my experience with Indians and Chinese, even the 80 IQ kids go to college.
     
    Were they tested? Or is that your opinion? White Americans with 80 IQS are really dumb.....

    The term “low IQ people” is too vague. I should’ve said 100-IQ. I think for many high-paying careers (management, finance, consulting) the lowest cut off IQ is around 100-105. Though if your IQ is that low, you need to work really hard and have good interpersonal skills.
     
    Any IQ studies that show this? That lots of people with high-paying jobs have 100 IQs?

    I know another guy who made millions as a broker and his IQ is, at best, average.
     
    How do you know? Did you give him an IQ test?
  72. @anon
    here’s a question – why should it require a bizarre amount of determination to become a dentist or a physician?

    It probably wouldn't, if you were average or above-average in IQ.

    I sometimes wonder if people on these sites ever even interact with 85 IQ people. I'm talking about people who can barely understand a simple newspaper article. People who were flummoxed by balancing a checkbook, back before the banks had websites that just did it for you.

    I know these people. I don't envy them in any way. I suppose, if they were going to work hard enough, they could become doctors, but you're talking about a LOT of work.

    It's like saying how, if short guys train hard enough, they might still become NBA players. OK, well, maybe, but it's going to take a lot more out of them. The number of people willing to do all that is going to be pretty small.

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    If he didn’t go to college, he’d probably do minimum wage work for life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.
     
    Can someone with an 85 IQ graduate from college? Maybe if he's Black.....
    , @syonredux

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.
     
    Can someone with an 85 IQ get through algebra II?
    , @syonredux

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree.
     
    Can someone with a 75 IQ graduate from college?
  73. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State…..
     
    I hope they would.

    The point is that the labor market is often inefficient and bizarre. The Yale English BA can go to Venture Capital, but the MIT PHD can't. This is despite the PHD's engineering skills being far more relevant to VC tech investments than the English BA.

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?

    http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2015/12/new-phd-incomes-surprisingly-low

    The point is that IQ and even skills are not as important as people think. If you want to make money, you need to get on the right career track. Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking) than a high-IQ kid with an engineering PHD. Better to be either of the two (Goldman banker or engineering PHD) than a genius-IQ kid with no degree.

    Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking)

    What do you mean by “low-IQ?” Below 100? I don’t think that people with an IQ below 100 can get into the Ivy League…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    What do you mean by “low-IQ?” Below 100? I don’t think that people with an IQ below 100 can get into the Ivy League…..
     
    By "low-IQ," I meant to say lower-IQ. I'd rather be a lower-IQ person a good career track than a higher-IQ person on a less lucrative track.

    I agree there's a minimum threshold IQ necessary to enter an Ivy League university, but it's likely not too high.

    https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/01/15/more-evidence-that-ivy-league-students-average-iq-122/

    a study showing that a sample of Harvard students tested in 2003 averaged Wechsler IQs of 122 (U.S. white norms); 124 (U.S. norms), and now I’ve analyzed data from another sample of Ivy League students circa 1971.5 who also averaged Wechsler IQs of 122.
     
    Assuming a somewhat normal distribution and a narrow standard deviation, I'd suspect the lowest-IQ students tested at around 100. Just a guess though.

    There are lots of NCAA athletes that get into Ivy League schools. Some are below average IQ.

    From my experience, a 100 IQ would allow you to be an investment banker. Perhaps not the sharpest banker, but sufficient enough to function competently. At the entry level, banking is just spreadsheets. You'll often hear bankers say "what we do isn't rocket science." If you can do basic math (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) and understand basic accounting, you can be a Wall Street banker. The hours are really bad (typically 100-120 per week) and the office politics are horrible, but intellectually it's easy. If you're lucky to get promoted, you'll mostly end up doing sales work and being a rainmaker.

    Can someone with an 85 IQ graduate from college? Maybe if he’s Black…..
     
    The average IQ of a new college graduate is now 100. So, yes, 85 IQ is likely high enough to graduate.

    http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/04/average-iq-of-college-graduates-by.html

    Actually, according to the General Social Survey (Wordsum score), about 10-15% of degree-holders have an 85 IQ (or lower). A small percentage are even as low as 80 IQ.

    So it seems that 80 IQ is the cut off for a college degree. I suppose that sounds ridiculous, but what can I say? People with 80 IQs are graduating from American colleges.

    Maybe Black culture is violent because Blacks are innately more violent……Ron Unz seems to think so……
     
    I think exogenous factors (such as music videos) actually do have a substantial impact on human behavior. It's not all genes.

    Which means that lots of people with dental degrees would not be able to get jobs in the field of dentistry…..
     
    Welcome to India and China.

    Were they tested? Or is that your opinion? White Americans with 80 IQS are really dumb…..
     
    Opinion. Professor Flynn did find that Chinese needed a substantially lower threshold IQ to attain a degree than whites. Since there are people as low as 80 IQ with a college degree, my statement stands.

    From my experience, Indians are academic like Chinese. So the above can be applied to them too.

    Any IQ studies that show this? That lots of people with high-paying jobs have 100 IQs?
     
    One study found that Swedish CEOs average 115 IQ. Given the premium that American corporate culture places on bullsh*tting, I'd bet we're no different.

    Interestingly, medical doctors had a 115 average IQ too.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2436765

    The study found that for "smaller" (revenue under $10 million annually) company CEOs, 2% had an IQ under 80 IQ.

    For "larger" (revenue over $1 billion annually) company CEOs, a tiny percentage were lower than 95 IQ. About 8% were 103 IQ or below.

    Even for doctors, about 1% were as low as 87 IQ. About 9% were under 103.

    So I'm comfortable saying that 100 IQ is roughly the threshold for high-paying careers. In reality, there are people as low as 80 IQ who are leading companies.
  74. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    An 85 IQ kid can't become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    If he didn't go to college, he'd probably do minimum wage work for life.

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    Can someone with an 85 IQ graduate from college? Maybe if he’s Black…..

    Read More
  75. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    An 85 IQ kid can't become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    If he didn't go to college, he'd probably do minimum wage work for life.

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    Can someone with an 85 IQ get through algebra II?

    Read More
  76. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities……
     
    Probably, but I think black culture is a major factor too. Growing up near a large black urban population probably pushes a lot of young blacks to be even more violent.

    So, if 40% of the planet’s population got a degree in dentistry…..
     
    The market would be flooded with dentists.

    India and China are flooded with college grads, despite being poor third world nations. If they had first world income, I bet the majority of parents would finance their kids getting a degree.

    From my experience with Indians and Chinese, even the 80 IQ kids go to college.

    Dunno. What do you mean by “low IQ?” Low for Black Americans is below 85…….I’m not sure that someone with an 80 IQ could be a success as an investment banker……
     
    The term "low IQ people" is too vague. I should've said 100-IQ. I think for many high-paying careers (management, finance, consulting) the lowest cut off IQ is around 100-105. Though if your IQ is that low, you need to work really hard and have good interpersonal skills.

    You might not believe me, but it's true. I once had a manager (with a MBA and a six-figure salary) who didn't know what depreciation was. I know another guy who made millions as a broker and his IQ is, at best, average.

    On the other hand, maybe he was born with thuggish propensities……

    Probably, but I think black culture is a major factor too.

    Maybe Black culture is violent because Blacks are innately more violent……Ron Unz seems to think so……

    So, if 40% of the planet’s population got a degree in dentistry…..

    The market would be flooded with dentists.

    Which means that lots of people with dental degrees would not be able to get jobs in the field of dentistry…..

    From my experience with Indians and Chinese, even the 80 IQ kids go to college.

    Were they tested? Or is that your opinion? White Americans with 80 IQS are really dumb…..

    The term “low IQ people” is too vague. I should’ve said 100-IQ. I think for many high-paying careers (management, finance, consulting) the lowest cut off IQ is around 100-105. Though if your IQ is that low, you need to work really hard and have good interpersonal skills.

    Any IQ studies that show this? That lots of people with high-paying jobs have 100 IQs?

    I know another guy who made millions as a broker and his IQ is, at best, average.

    How do you know? Did you give him an IQ test?

    Read More
  77. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    An 85 IQ kid can't become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree. Then he can become a paper pusher at some big company and make $40,000/yr.

    If he didn't go to college, he'd probably do minimum wage work for life.

    An 85 IQ kid can’t become a doctor, but (if he works really hard) he can graduate from Idaho State with a geology degree.

    Can someone with a 75 IQ graduate from college?

    Read More
  78. Ed says:
    @Triumph104
    The light-skinned guy has a West Indian name - William Gore. Of course he may not be West Indian, might have an African mother and white father.

    All of the guys are not even British. At least one is a Nigerian immigrant student.

    Immigration policies result in the UK having West Indians that underperform the West Indians in the US. Just like the South Asians in the UK underperform the South Asians in the US. The Turks in Germany underperform the Turks in the US. This is all due to the selective nature of the immigration process.

    Outside of the entertainment industry, many successful US blacks are often descendants of Caribbean immigrants even though they are a small percentage of the black population.

    1st black Secretary of State - Colin Powell (Jamaican parents)
    1st black Congresswoman - Shirley Chisholm (parents from British Guiana and Barbados)
    1st black US Attorney General - Eric Holder (family from Barbados)
    Cousins Sherrilyn Ifill (NAACP legal counsel) and Gwen Ifill (anchor PBS Newshour) - (family from Panama by way of Barbados).
    Fox News journalist Juan Williams - (Panamanian)
    Author Malcolm Gladwell - Born in UK, raised in Canada, lives in US. (British father-mathematician, Jamaican mother-psychologist: University College London)

    The highly cited black British physicist Clifford Johnson teaches at the University of Southern California. He is from Montserrat. He moved to London in time to study for O-levels then A-levels. The only reason he didn't attend Cambridge or Oxford is because in those days they had a Latin or Greek requirement and Johnson had never studied either language. He went to Imperial College at London University.

    What do you make of Caribbean performance in Canada? I get the impression it’s more similar to UK Caribbean performance than Caribbean American performance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    I think that is true. I have never been able to find any significant test score data by race for Canada. Blacks in the Toronto District School Board are academic underperformers.

    Between 2006 and 2011 — the latest period for which TDSB data is available — only 53 per cent of black students were in an academic stream program versus 81 per cent of white students and 80 per cent of other racial groups.

    Forty-two per cent of black students had been suspended at least once during high school compared with 18 per cent of white students and 15 per cent of other racial groups. It also cited more recent stats showing almost half the 213 students expelled in the five-year period ending in 2015-16 were black.

    Sixty-nine per cent of black students graduated between 2006 and 2011 versus 87 per cent of other non-white students and 84 per cent of white students. Twenty per cent — twice as many as the other groups — dropped out.

    Fifty-eight per cent of black kids did not apply to post-secondary school versus 41 per cent in the other two groups.

    https://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2017/04/24/black-students-hindered-by-academic-streaming-suspensions-report.html
     
    I believe the blacks in Montreal/Quebec are more likely to be from French-speaking African countries, so it would be interesting to see if they do better academically.
  79. What do these schools have in common?

    http://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/6-baltimore-schools-no-students-proficient-in-state-tests

    The names of the schools – Booker T Washington, Frederick Douglass – remind me of Chris Rock saying, ‘If a friend calls you on the telephone and says they’re lost on Martin Luther King Boulevard and they want to know what they should do, the best response is ‘Run!’’

    Read More
  80. @syonredux

    Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking)
     
    What do you mean by "low-IQ?" Below 100? I don't think that people with an IQ below 100 can get into the Ivy League.....

    What do you mean by “low-IQ?” Below 100? I don’t think that people with an IQ below 100 can get into the Ivy League…..

    By “low-IQ,” I meant to say lower-IQ. I’d rather be a lower-IQ person a good career track than a higher-IQ person on a less lucrative track.

    I agree there’s a minimum threshold IQ necessary to enter an Ivy League university, but it’s likely not too high.

    https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/01/15/more-evidence-that-ivy-league-students-average-iq-122/

    a study showing that a sample of Harvard students tested in 2003 averaged Wechsler IQs of 122 (U.S. white norms); 124 (U.S. norms), and now I’ve analyzed data from another sample of Ivy League students circa 1971.5 who also averaged Wechsler IQs of 122.

    Assuming a somewhat normal distribution and a narrow standard deviation, I’d suspect the lowest-IQ students tested at around 100. Just a guess though.

    There are lots of NCAA athletes that get into Ivy League schools. Some are below average IQ.

    From my experience, a 100 IQ would allow you to be an investment banker. Perhaps not the sharpest banker, but sufficient enough to function competently. At the entry level, banking is just spreadsheets. You’ll often hear bankers say “what we do isn’t rocket science.” If you can do basic math (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) and understand basic accounting, you can be a Wall Street banker. The hours are really bad (typically 100-120 per week) and the office politics are horrible, but intellectually it’s easy. If you’re lucky to get promoted, you’ll mostly end up doing sales work and being a rainmaker.

    Can someone with an 85 IQ graduate from college? Maybe if he’s Black…..

    The average IQ of a new college graduate is now 100. So, yes, 85 IQ is likely high enough to graduate.

    http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/04/average-iq-of-college-graduates-by.html

    Actually, according to the General Social Survey (Wordsum score), about 10-15% of degree-holders have an 85 IQ (or lower). A small percentage are even as low as 80 IQ.

    So it seems that 80 IQ is the cut off for a college degree. I suppose that sounds ridiculous, but what can I say? People with 80 IQs are graduating from American colleges.

    Maybe Black culture is violent because Blacks are innately more violent……Ron Unz seems to think so……

    I think exogenous factors (such as music videos) actually do have a substantial impact on human behavior. It’s not all genes.

    Which means that lots of people with dental degrees would not be able to get jobs in the field of dentistry…..

    Welcome to India and China.

    Were they tested? Or is that your opinion? White Americans with 80 IQS are really dumb…..

    Opinion. Professor Flynn did find that Chinese needed a substantially lower threshold IQ to attain a degree than whites. Since there are people as low as 80 IQ with a college degree, my statement stands.

    From my experience, Indians are academic like Chinese. So the above can be applied to them too.

    Any IQ studies that show this? That lots of people with high-paying jobs have 100 IQs?

    One study found that Swedish CEOs average 115 IQ. Given the premium that American corporate culture places on bullsh*tting, I’d bet we’re no different.

    Interestingly, medical doctors had a 115 average IQ too.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2436765

    The study found that for “smaller” (revenue under $10 million annually) company CEOs, 2% had an IQ under 80 IQ.

    For “larger” (revenue over $1 billion annually) company CEOs, a tiny percentage were lower than 95 IQ. About 8% were 103 IQ or below.

    Even for doctors, about 1% were as low as 87 IQ. About 9% were under 103.

    So I’m comfortable saying that 100 IQ is roughly the threshold for high-paying careers. In reality, there are people as low as 80 IQ who are leading companies.

    Read More
  81. @Stan Adams
    Something tells me that it is not the low-IQ blacks but the high-IQ Jews who are the driving force behind the kiboshing of HBD awareness.

    (Useless trivia: It seems that kibosh comes from English slang, not Yiddish. The earliest citation is in Dickens. Who knew?)

    I was tall and hairy in middle school (and afterward), but my development was totally out of whack. I hit all of the early milestones well ahead of schedule. I was an only child, so my only real playmate was my cousin, two years my senior. (She was an only child, as well.) I did not attend pre-K.

    In kindergarten, I exhibited severe behavioral difficulties. (The principal told my mother that he'd never seen a more difficult child.) At the age of five, I was tested and was deemed eligible for a special program for gifted* students with behavioral and emotional problems. I attended this program from first through fifth grade. From sixth through eighth grade, I went to a "special" middle school.

    For my secondary education, I attended a "special" program at a normal high school. I was never fully mainstreamed, but by my senior year I only had one "special" class.

    In the halcyon days of my youth, I was a tall, hairy, fat kid with horrendous acne - huge boils all over my face and (especially) my back.

    Once, on a dare, I lifted up my shirt to a group of kids. The girls squealed so loudly that a teacher passing by assumed I'd exposed myself and reported me to the assistant principal. (I almost got in serious trouble, believe it or not.)

    Accutane was a Godsend.

    So, in summary, I wasn't bullied, but I wasn't dated, either. I was a freak - a "good" freak, I guess - and I spent a lot of time with freaks. Even though I was a loner, I felt a certain camaraderie with my fellow misfits.

    My social calendar was empty, so I spent a lot of time reading. It made me into the trivia hoarder I am today.

    After graduating, I obtained a bachelor's degree in a non-STEM field. I was an extremely lazy student, and I graduated cum laude. (The whole thing struck me as a bit of a joke, really.)

    I drifted for a good long while after graduating. Having my life micromanaged by my mother and my (wealthy) grandmother didn't help.

    *The cutoff for "gifted" was 130. My kindergarten score was in the high 140s, or so I've been told. This was in the late '80s, mind you.

    Shocking that a regular reader of this blog is socially maladjusted

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    I don't think of myself as especially socially maladjusted ... I know lots of dysfunctional folks.

    My father is a full-blown schizophrenic. My mother is something of a head case herself. Many of my relatives on her side are drunks, addicts, and layabouts. I'm lucky that I'm as normal as I am.

    For the record, I was diagnosed with OCD. At various times, I was on Risperdal, Zoloft, Prozac, and/or Luvox. (I never took Ritalin.)

    A crazy girl once jumped on top of me and took a chomp out of my back. (That might not sound so bad, but we were in a school hallway at the time.)

    I knew quite a few high-IQ Jewish misfits, believe it or not.

    One of them had a disgusting habit of picking dried-up gum from underneath classroom desks and chewing it. (It looked as nasty as it sounds.) He was the thinnest-skinned kid I'd ever met. He had a weird last name that easily lent itself to teasing. Even the mildest comments could reduce him to tears. (You'd think that high-school kids would be above teasing someone for having a weird name, but you'd be wrong.)

    Another used to wear a big button reading "I Love Publix." (Publix is the dominant supermarket chain in the Miami area. There are neighborhoods where you can find two or even three Publix stores within a few minutes' walking distance of each other.) I once asked him why he always wore the button, and his response was, "Isn't it obvious?"

    Has anyone here ever read Bless the Beasts and Children? One of the characters is an oddball Jewish boy who freaks out during his bar mitzvah and starts muttering gibberish. I knew a few kids who reminded me of him.
  82. @Ed
    What do you make of Caribbean performance in Canada? I get the impression it's more similar to UK Caribbean performance than Caribbean American performance.

    I think that is true. I have never been able to find any significant test score data by race for Canada. Blacks in the Toronto District School Board are academic underperformers.

    Between 2006 and 2011 — the latest period for which TDSB data is available — only 53 per cent of black students were in an academic stream program versus 81 per cent of white students and 80 per cent of other racial groups.

    Forty-two per cent of black students had been suspended at least once during high school compared with 18 per cent of white students and 15 per cent of other racial groups. It also cited more recent stats showing almost half the 213 students expelled in the five-year period ending in 2015-16 were black.

    Sixty-nine per cent of black students graduated between 2006 and 2011 versus 87 per cent of other non-white students and 84 per cent of white students. Twenty per cent — twice as many as the other groups — dropped out.

    Fifty-eight per cent of black kids did not apply to post-secondary school versus 41 per cent in the other two groups.

    https://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2017/04/24/black-students-hindered-by-academic-streaming-suspensions-report.html

    I believe the blacks in Montreal/Quebec are more likely to be from French-speaking African countries, so it would be interesting to see if they do better academically.

    Read More
  83. TG says:

    Well written, but…

    Don’t forget about age! The dirty little secret about the IQ test is that it is normalized for age. So in absolute terms, it declines quite steadily after about 30. We do this to avoid embarrassing older people, including the senior people in charge of making up IQ tests!

    So it may well be true that your average African age 25 has a higher raw IQ score than your average Norwegian age 60.

    Of course, the Norwegian will have more knowledge, and one presumes more acquired resources. And, at least for now, be part of a more stable and productive society.

    But IQ, powerful though it is indeed, is not fate, even among large groups. In the 19th Century the average Chinese likely had a genetic IQ potential slightly greater than the average American. So what? At that time most Chinese were living chronically malnourished lives in the mud, and America was taking off to become the greatest industrial power the world had ever seen.

    All other things being equal, the groups with the higher IQs will tend to win. Agreed. But since when have all other things been equal? Culture, and demographics, and resources, and morals, etc., will trump IQ every time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Don’t forget about age! The dirty little secret about the IQ test is that it is normalized for age. So in absolute terms, it declines quite steadily after about 30. We do this to avoid embarrassing older people, including the senior people in charge of making up IQ tests!

    Children IQ tests also are normalized for age. Child at 12 has to give more correct answer than at age of 10 to get the same IQ score. This is not done because of potential embarrassment. It is done chiefly because IQ is supposed to be constant if it is to be solely driven by genes. This was a dogma of early intelligence researchers and still is among the HBD crowd.

    Anyway, comparing IQ's between different age groups is pretty much irrelevant. This puts a big question mark on any results from longitudinal studies.
  84. CCZ says:

    6 Baltimore Schools, No Students Proficient In State Tests

    by Chris Papst

    Wednesday, May 17th 2017

    http://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/6-baltimore-schools-no-students-proficient-in-state-tests

    BALTIMORE (WBFF) — A Project Baltimore investigation has found five Baltimore City high schools and one middle school do not have a single student proficient in the state tested subjects of math and English.

    “Project Baltimore found five city high schools and one middle school have zero students proficient.

    The schools are:

    Booker T. Washington Middle School
    Frederick Douglass High School
    Achievement Academy at Harbor City
    New Era Academy
    Excel Academy at Francis M. Wood High
    New Hope Academy

    High school students are tested by the state in math and English. Their scores place them in one of five categories – a four or five is considered proficient and one through three are not. At Frederick Douglass, for example, 185 students took the state math test last year and 89 percent fell into the lowest level. Just one student approached expectations and scored a three.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Four of the schools are for students with special needs.

    Achievement Academy at Harbor City is an adult high school. Adults who could not get through the regular high school process or earn a GED usually have learning disablities and have extremely low SAT scores.

    New Era Academy, Excel Academy at Francis M. Wood High, and New Hope Academy are all alternative schools, which serve kids with learning disablities and severe behaviorial problems. The shooter of the Pulse nightclub attended an alternative school in Florida.

    Publicizing the test scores from these schools is just an attempt to justify privatizing public schools. Most of these students are simply uneducable.

  85. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Filipinos on average have a similar or even lower IQ than Black Americans, yet Filipinos are significantly less violent than Black Americans.
    The out of control rate of violence in the African American community is due to their extremely high testosterone more so than their low IQs.
    Filipinos can’t compete with African Americans when it comes to high testosterone.
     
    Filipinos have different personalities. Many of the immigrants are deferential and easy going. American-raised Filos often superficially imitate hip hop culture, but they're not especially violent or crime prone.

    Although the downside side effects of Filipino low IQ is that they tend to disproportionately be impulsive degenerate gamblers, blowing away their entire weekly paychecks at the casinos. Go to any casino in Northern California and the racial demographics resemble Little Manila. Gambling is to Filipinos like what alcohol is to the Scottish and the Irish.
    Every Filipino family has at least 1 family member who’s addiction to gambling is so bad that they need rehab to cure them of their disease.
     

    Lots of Chinese and Koreans are gamblers too. Not sure why.

    In addition to being gamblers, lots of Asian men are womanizers too.

    Contrary to what HBD teaches, the least likely to cheat (in a relationship) are not Asian men. Least likely to cheat are White men (due to WASP guilt) and Indian men (due to unattractiveness).

    “Least likely to cheat are White men (due to WASP guilt)”

    So Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich are not WASPs? Are they Bulgarians?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    In most cultures, what Bill Clinton did wouldn't have gotten much scrutiny. In America, he got into a lot of trouble because there's a view that people should be honest in relationships. That's a view that's prevalent in Northern&Western Euro cultures.

    In China or Japan, it's customary for powerful men to have lots of mistresses. Nobody thinks twice. If Bill Clinton were the Chinese premier, it would've been a non-issue.
  86. res says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that the guy with the PHD from MIT would beat out the guy with a BA in English from Fresno State…..
     
    I hope they would.

    The point is that the labor market is often inefficient and bizarre. The Yale English BA can go to Venture Capital, but the MIT PHD can't. This is despite the PHD's engineering skills being far more relevant to VC tech investments than the English BA.

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?

    http://www.sciencemag.org/careers/2015/12/new-phd-incomes-surprisingly-low

    The point is that IQ and even skills are not as important as people think. If you want to make money, you need to get on the right career track. Better to be a low-IQ kid on a good-track (such as Ivy League to Goldman I-banking) than a high-IQ kid with an engineering PHD. Better to be either of the two (Goldman banker or engineering PHD) than a genius-IQ kid with no degree.

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?

    Indeed. I found the numbers for scientists even more surprising with PhD biologists at $36k.

    However, you left out some highly relevant parts. For example:

    It’s likely that postdoc appointments are dampening earnings, most notably those of the biologists, the article’s authors note. If one considers only industrial salaries, they write, “the average earnings increase by one quarter (although the gap varies by field), with the highest earnings in mathematics and/or computer sciences (almost $90,000) and engineering (almost $80,000).”

    Also:

    from eight flagship midwestern state universities

    So there is a decent chance many are working in relatively low salary/cost of living locations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Even in the Midwest, $65,000 and $36,000 are still ridiculously low values for PHDs.

    Good observation that salaries are higher in industry, but it's still not that different. Only about 1/4th higher. So if we factor in that 1/4th increase, a PHD in engineering makes $80,000 and a Biology PHD makes $45,000. The Computer Science and Math PHDs do make $90,000, which is better.

    Considering that it takes near-genius IQ to get a PHD in any quantitative field, it is astonishing to pay them $45,000-$90,000.

    It takes about 8 years to get a PHD. The average PHD is awarded at the age of 33. Before then, students have to live on meager stipends. So if you work to age 65, you have 32 years in the labor force.

    An average college graduate enters the labor force at 22. If he works to 65, he was 43 years in the labor force.

    So a PHD has only 74% (32/43) of the time in the labor force as the typical college graduate. That means only 74% of the income-earning period. This means we have to annualize PHD incomes to give a fair comparison with the average college graduate.

    So if you multiply that by the salaries, you'll see the PHDs are much poorer than we realize.

    $45,000 * 0.74 = $33,000/yr for Biology PHDs
    $80,000 * .74 = $59,000 /yr for engineering PHDs
    $90,000 * .74 = $67,000/yr for Computer&Math PHDs.

    These are ridiculously low salaries.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    By the way, only 15% of post-docs get tenure.

    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/44874/title/Opinion--The-Postdoc-Crisis/

    However, postdocs in the U.S. are facing increasing uncertainty of landing a permanent job. Instead of creating job openings for permanent staff scientists, PIs and some funding agencies tend to favor hiring postdocs, partly due to postdocs’ relatively low salaries and high research productivity. A recent estimate showed that only around 15 percent of U.S. postdocs secure tenure-track jobs, while another survey found that the unemployment rate after completing a postdoctoral fellowship has more than doubled from four percent in 2008 to 10 percent in 2012.
     
    So if someone makes $50,000/yr as a post-doc and then doesn't get tenure after years in a university, they're doomed.
  87. @ScarletNumber
    Shocking that a regular reader of this blog is socially maladjusted

    I don’t think of myself as especially socially maladjusted … I know lots of dysfunctional folks.

    My father is a full-blown schizophrenic. My mother is something of a head case herself. Many of my relatives on her side are drunks, addicts, and layabouts. I’m lucky that I’m as normal as I am.

    For the record, I was diagnosed with OCD. At various times, I was on Risperdal, Zoloft, Prozac, and/or Luvox. (I never took Ritalin.)

    A crazy girl once jumped on top of me and took a chomp out of my back. (That might not sound so bad, but we were in a school hallway at the time.)

    I knew quite a few high-IQ Jewish misfits, believe it or not.

    One of them had a disgusting habit of picking dried-up gum from underneath classroom desks and chewing it. (It looked as nasty as it sounds.) He was the thinnest-skinned kid I’d ever met. He had a weird last name that easily lent itself to teasing. Even the mildest comments could reduce him to tears. (You’d think that high-school kids would be above teasing someone for having a weird name, but you’d be wrong.)

    Another used to wear a big button reading “I Love Publix.” (Publix is the dominant supermarket chain in the Miami area. There are neighborhoods where you can find two or even three Publix stores within a few minutes’ walking distance of each other.) I once asked him why he always wore the button, and his response was, “Isn’t it obvious?”

    Has anyone here ever read Bless the Beasts and Children? One of the characters is an oddball Jewish boy who freaks out during his bar mitzvah and starts muttering gibberish. I knew a few kids who reminded me of him.

    Read More
  88. @CCZ
    6 Baltimore Schools, No Students Proficient In State Tests

    by Chris Papst

    Wednesday, May 17th 2017

    http://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/6-baltimore-schools-no-students-proficient-in-state-tests

    BALTIMORE (WBFF) -- A Project Baltimore investigation has found five Baltimore City high schools and one middle school do not have a single student proficient in the state tested subjects of math and English.

    “Project Baltimore found five city high schools and one middle school have zero students proficient.

    The schools are:

    Booker T. Washington Middle School
    Frederick Douglass High School
    Achievement Academy at Harbor City
    New Era Academy
    Excel Academy at Francis M. Wood High
    New Hope Academy


    High school students are tested by the state in math and English. Their scores place them in one of five categories – a four or five is considered proficient and one through three are not. At Frederick Douglass, for example, 185 students took the state math test last year and 89 percent fell into the lowest level. Just one student approached expectations and scored a three.

     

    Four of the schools are for students with special needs.

    Achievement Academy at Harbor City is an adult high school. Adults who could not get through the regular high school process or earn a GED usually have learning disablities and have extremely low SAT scores.

    New Era Academy, Excel Academy at Francis M. Wood High, and New Hope Academy are all alternative schools, which serve kids with learning disablities and severe behaviorial problems. The shooter of the Pulse nightclub attended an alternative school in Florida.

    Publicizing the test scores from these schools is just an attempt to justify privatizing public schools. Most of these students are simply uneducable.

    Read More
  89. utu says:
    @TG
    Well written, but...

    Don't forget about age! The dirty little secret about the IQ test is that it is normalized for age. So in absolute terms, it declines quite steadily after about 30. We do this to avoid embarrassing older people, including the senior people in charge of making up IQ tests!

    So it may well be true that your average African age 25 has a higher raw IQ score than your average Norwegian age 60.

    Of course, the Norwegian will have more knowledge, and one presumes more acquired resources. And, at least for now, be part of a more stable and productive society.

    But IQ, powerful though it is indeed, is not fate, even among large groups. In the 19th Century the average Chinese likely had a genetic IQ potential slightly greater than the average American. So what? At that time most Chinese were living chronically malnourished lives in the mud, and America was taking off to become the greatest industrial power the world had ever seen.

    All other things being equal, the groups with the higher IQs will tend to win. Agreed. But since when have all other things been equal? Culture, and demographics, and resources, and morals, etc., will trump IQ every time.

    Don’t forget about age! The dirty little secret about the IQ test is that it is normalized for age. So in absolute terms, it declines quite steadily after about 30. We do this to avoid embarrassing older people, including the senior people in charge of making up IQ tests!

    Children IQ tests also are normalized for age. Child at 12 has to give more correct answer than at age of 10 to get the same IQ score. This is not done because of potential embarrassment. It is done chiefly because IQ is supposed to be constant if it is to be solely driven by genes. This was a dogma of early intelligence researchers and still is among the HBD crowd.

    Anyway, comparing IQ’s between different age groups is pretty much irrelevant. This puts a big question mark on any results from longitudinal studies.

    Read More
  90. @Jefferson
    "Least likely to cheat are White men (due to WASP guilt)"

    So Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich are not WASPs? Are they Bulgarians?

    In most cultures, what Bill Clinton did wouldn’t have gotten much scrutiny. In America, he got into a lot of trouble because there’s a view that people should be honest in relationships. That’s a view that’s prevalent in Northern&Western Euro cultures.

    In China or Japan, it’s customary for powerful men to have lots of mistresses. Nobody thinks twice. If Bill Clinton were the Chinese premier, it would’ve been a non-issue.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "In most cultures, what Bill Clinton did wouldn’t have gotten much scrutiny. In America, he got into a lot of trouble because there’s a view that people should be honest in relationships. That’s a view that’s prevalent in Northern&Western Euro cultures.

    In China or Japan, it’s customary for powerful men to have lots of mistresses. Nobody thinks twice. If Bill Clinton were the Chinese premier, it would’ve been a non-issue."

    Adultery is extremely common in Western culture because Western culture is not very socially conservative with the exception of fringe demographics like Evangelicals and Mormons.

    There is a reason the Western world has the highest divorce rates on the planet.
  91. @res

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?
     
    Indeed. I found the numbers for scientists even more surprising with PhD biologists at $36k.

    However, you left out some highly relevant parts. For example:

    It’s likely that postdoc appointments are dampening earnings, most notably those of the biologists, the article’s authors note. If one considers only industrial salaries, they write, “the average earnings increase by one quarter (although the gap varies by field), with the highest earnings in mathematics and/or computer sciences (almost $90,000) and engineering (almost $80,000).”

     

    Also:

    from eight flagship midwestern state universities
     
    So there is a decent chance many are working in relatively low salary/cost of living locations.

    Even in the Midwest, $65,000 and $36,000 are still ridiculously low values for PHDs.

    Good observation that salaries are higher in industry, but it’s still not that different. Only about 1/4th higher. So if we factor in that 1/4th increase, a PHD in engineering makes $80,000 and a Biology PHD makes $45,000. The Computer Science and Math PHDs do make $90,000, which is better.

    Considering that it takes near-genius IQ to get a PHD in any quantitative field, it is astonishing to pay them $45,000-$90,000.

    It takes about 8 years to get a PHD. The average PHD is awarded at the age of 33. Before then, students have to live on meager stipends. So if you work to age 65, you have 32 years in the labor force.

    An average college graduate enters the labor force at 22. If he works to 65, he was 43 years in the labor force.

    So a PHD has only 74% (32/43) of the time in the labor force as the typical college graduate. That means only 74% of the income-earning period. This means we have to annualize PHD incomes to give a fair comparison with the average college graduate.

    So if you multiply that by the salaries, you’ll see the PHDs are much poorer than we realize.

    $45,000 * 0.74 = $33,000/yr for Biology PHDs
    $80,000 * .74 = $59,000 /yr for engineering PHDs
    $90,000 * .74 = $67,000/yr for Computer&Math PHDs.

    These are ridiculously low salaries.

    Read More
    • Agree: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @res
    Good points. One thing I don't have data for is career progression. In some fields I think having a PhD is currently important for advancement. I don't know how this shows up in later career salaries. Still, your delay point tends to overwhelm any purely financial calculation. You are probably aware of the time value of money issue there which makes it even worse than your analysis makes it appear.

    My sense is the most financially sensible non-academic STEM path is to get a BS and then find a company that will pay for an MS or MBA. It's not always about the money though.
  92. @res

    By the way, new engineering PHDs earn $65,000. In what rational world does that happen?
     
    Indeed. I found the numbers for scientists even more surprising with PhD biologists at $36k.

    However, you left out some highly relevant parts. For example:

    It’s likely that postdoc appointments are dampening earnings, most notably those of the biologists, the article’s authors note. If one considers only industrial salaries, they write, “the average earnings increase by one quarter (although the gap varies by field), with the highest earnings in mathematics and/or computer sciences (almost $90,000) and engineering (almost $80,000).”

     

    Also:

    from eight flagship midwestern state universities
     
    So there is a decent chance many are working in relatively low salary/cost of living locations.

    By the way, only 15% of post-docs get tenure.

    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/44874/title/Opinion–The-Postdoc-Crisis/

    However, postdocs in the U.S. are facing increasing uncertainty of landing a permanent job. Instead of creating job openings for permanent staff scientists, PIs and some funding agencies tend to favor hiring postdocs, partly due to postdocs’ relatively low salaries and high research productivity. A recent estimate showed that only around 15 percent of U.S. postdocs secure tenure-track jobs, while another survey found that the unemployment rate after completing a postdoctoral fellowship has more than doubled from four percent in 2008 to 10 percent in 2012.

    So if someone makes $50,000/yr as a post-doc and then doesn’t get tenure after years in a university, they’re doomed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    I did not know the tenure percentage was that low. Thanks.

    The post-doc business is an incredible scandal IMHO (the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills). The only reason it works at all is most of them are coming off a grad student lifestyle and don't realize (or don't care?) how much they are being taking advantage of financially. I suppose if you love the work enough...
  93. res says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    By the way, only 15% of post-docs get tenure.

    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/44874/title/Opinion--The-Postdoc-Crisis/

    However, postdocs in the U.S. are facing increasing uncertainty of landing a permanent job. Instead of creating job openings for permanent staff scientists, PIs and some funding agencies tend to favor hiring postdocs, partly due to postdocs’ relatively low salaries and high research productivity. A recent estimate showed that only around 15 percent of U.S. postdocs secure tenure-track jobs, while another survey found that the unemployment rate after completing a postdoctoral fellowship has more than doubled from four percent in 2008 to 10 percent in 2012.
     
    So if someone makes $50,000/yr as a post-doc and then doesn't get tenure after years in a university, they're doomed.

    I did not know the tenure percentage was that low. Thanks.

    The post-doc business is an incredible scandal IMHO (the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills). The only reason it works at all is most of them are coming off a grad student lifestyle and don’t realize (or don’t care?) how much they are being taking advantage of financially. I suppose if you love the work enough…

    Read More
  94. res says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Even in the Midwest, $65,000 and $36,000 are still ridiculously low values for PHDs.

    Good observation that salaries are higher in industry, but it's still not that different. Only about 1/4th higher. So if we factor in that 1/4th increase, a PHD in engineering makes $80,000 and a Biology PHD makes $45,000. The Computer Science and Math PHDs do make $90,000, which is better.

    Considering that it takes near-genius IQ to get a PHD in any quantitative field, it is astonishing to pay them $45,000-$90,000.

    It takes about 8 years to get a PHD. The average PHD is awarded at the age of 33. Before then, students have to live on meager stipends. So if you work to age 65, you have 32 years in the labor force.

    An average college graduate enters the labor force at 22. If he works to 65, he was 43 years in the labor force.

    So a PHD has only 74% (32/43) of the time in the labor force as the typical college graduate. That means only 74% of the income-earning period. This means we have to annualize PHD incomes to give a fair comparison with the average college graduate.

    So if you multiply that by the salaries, you'll see the PHDs are much poorer than we realize.

    $45,000 * 0.74 = $33,000/yr for Biology PHDs
    $80,000 * .74 = $59,000 /yr for engineering PHDs
    $90,000 * .74 = $67,000/yr for Computer&Math PHDs.

    These are ridiculously low salaries.

    Good points. One thing I don’t have data for is career progression. In some fields I think having a PhD is currently important for advancement. I don’t know how this shows up in later career salaries. Still, your delay point tends to overwhelm any purely financial calculation. You are probably aware of the time value of money issue there which makes it even worse than your analysis makes it appear.

    My sense is the most financially sensible non-academic STEM path is to get a BS and then find a company that will pay for an MS or MBA. It’s not always about the money though.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    The post-doc business is an incredible scandal IMHO (the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills). The only reason it works at all is most of them are coming off a grad student lifestyle and don’t realize (or don’t care?) how much they are being taking advantage of financially. I suppose if you love the work enough…
     
    I wonder what happens to post-docs who don't get tenure. Do they go to the private sector or do stay in academia?

    If they do go to the private sector, can they earn good wages?

    My sense is that if you don't get on the right career track shortly after finishing college, you're screwed for life. Mostly because employers look at your previous job. If that previous job wasn't a "good" (high-paying, big company, high level responsibilities) job, you get screened out. It's a Catch 22. You can't get a desirable job because you lack the right experience. Unfortunately, you lack the right experience because you previously didn't have a desirable job.

    So a non-tenured post-doc basically just has lots of academic work and nothing that appeals to private sector employers, who prefer private sector experience.

    The job market is so hypercompetitive (especially with H-1bs and outsourcing) that lots of employable people get shut out.

    Good points. One thing I don’t have data for is career progression. In some fields I think having a PhD is currently important for advancement. I don’t know how this shows up in later career salaries. Still, your delay point tends to overwhelm any purely financial calculation. You are probably aware of the time value of money issue there which makes it even worse than your analysis makes it appear.
     
    The engineer and computer science guys might have okay career progression.

    I bet the Biology PHDs get screwed. $36,000 (or $45,000) is just too ridiculously low of a post-doc salary to suggest any type of good career path.

    the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills
     
    Good observation. The American economy is evolving in a winner-take-all direction. Previously, it was just sports/entertainment that functioned like that. Now entire large sectors are sort of trending in that direction.

    It sucks too. You get a few lucky "winners" who make out like bandits, while the "losers" end up putting in YEARS of hard work without reaping any real rewards.

    It's like how in sports, a few elite athletes get lucrative pro-contracts (or perhaps starting positions in popular Div 1 NCAA sports programs) and fame, while the masses of athletes toil in obscurity (minor leagues, less popular college sports, amateur leagues). Those "lesser" athletes never end up making it big, but they still work hard and a lot get injured badly early in life. All the downside, with any of the upside.

    People do a PHD and work in academia because they want the easy lifestyle and glamor of a tenured professor. Unfortunately, if you do your PHD and toil for years in academia without getting tenure, you've wasted the best years of your personal life (and your professional life). You get all the downside, without any of the upside.
  95. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    In most cultures, what Bill Clinton did wouldn't have gotten much scrutiny. In America, he got into a lot of trouble because there's a view that people should be honest in relationships. That's a view that's prevalent in Northern&Western Euro cultures.

    In China or Japan, it's customary for powerful men to have lots of mistresses. Nobody thinks twice. If Bill Clinton were the Chinese premier, it would've been a non-issue.

    “In most cultures, what Bill Clinton did wouldn’t have gotten much scrutiny. In America, he got into a lot of trouble because there’s a view that people should be honest in relationships. That’s a view that’s prevalent in Northern&Western Euro cultures.

    In China or Japan, it’s customary for powerful men to have lots of mistresses. Nobody thinks twice. If Bill Clinton were the Chinese premier, it would’ve been a non-issue.”

    Adultery is extremely common in Western culture because Western culture is not very socially conservative with the exception of fringe demographics like Evangelicals and Mormons.

    There is a reason the Western world has the highest divorce rates on the planet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    I looked up the numbers.

    In China, 21% of men admit to adultery. Among American Whites, 20%. However, among women, 13% of White-American women and 5% of Chinese women have committed adultery.

    So at least Asian females are more monogamous, but not Asian men.
  96. @Dave Pinsen
    Probably because memorization gets you to the right solution in the vast majority of cases. And not just in medicine. What percentage of chess mastery, for example, is memorization? I'd guess a huge part of it.

    Yeah but are there any ubiquitous cheap devices that can kind of eliminate the need to memorize things?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    There's a British company that invented a smartphone app that it says can make diagnoses 10x as accurate as the average physician, but how would you structure a medical education -- or any professional training -- without memorization?
  97. @anon
    They should provide fresh food markets just as they provide schools, libraries, and police and fire services.

    It seems to me like one thing you could do would be to just make it so you couldn't spend EBT money on junk food. Then, if the stores there wanted to keep that EBT money coming in, they wouldn't have much choice but to stock real food.

    One question, though.

    I see them feeding it to their children on the bus.

    If you live in the same neighborhoods as these people, and ride the same buses, how do you manage to buy better stuff? Do the buses not go out to the normal grocery stores?

    Thank you for your reply. Your first point is well taken; the Law of Supply and Demand says that if there are EBT dollars out there in the hands of purchasers, an enterprising capitalist (not a dirty word in my book) will step in to meet customer demand by supplying produce.

    As to your second question, I have the great good fortune (perhaps I was a nice guy in a previous incarnation) of having been born Caucasian (that is my biologically-assigned racial designation as well as my chosen cis-identification), and I have a girlfriend who is also Caucasian who has a car. (She’s an MRI tech at a hospital). She drives me to Wegmans, our local megamarket chain, where we shop for good food on weekends.

    Read More
  98. @donut
    "Steve: Thanks so much for this. People who want to boost African-American I.Q. (and I am certainly one of them) should put political pressure on governments to stop enabling the malnutrition of African-American expectant mothers, neonates, babies, and children by halting the purchase of “junk food” (especially soda pop and snack chips) with EBT (“food stamp”) cards."
    I think you have it backwards . In America today , the land of the great giveaway , they don't have a low IQs because they are malnourished , they just for the most part have low IQs . Just a guess but I suspect that while malnourishment may effect the brains functioning it it doesn't effect IQ .

    During and between the two world wars vast parts of Europe were subjected to prolonged famine . Did their IQs drop as a result ? For just one example see : "The Turnip Winter"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip_Winter

    Yet that generation of malnourished children grew up to accomplish remarkable things .

    No, I don’t have it backwards. I.Q. is determined by multiple factors, genetics being a very important one and early nutrition (which affects brain development) being another. Culture (e.g., the “Mozart Effect”, which is the effect upon the developing brain of the young child in which it struggles to make aesthetic sense of the complex and interwoven melodies and harmonies inherent in European Classical music, and grows in ability as a result) is another.

    The Turnip Winter example applies to starving adults. Their brains have already formed. But I meant to point out that the developing brain benefits from good nutrition as well as from good genetics.

    It is salutary for Sailer and Murray and Watson to point out that I.Q. is largely determined by genetics. That’s true and important. But the nutritional component to I.Q. means that society can at least do something positive to ameliorate the heartlessness of the “Blind Watchmaker” who passes out his genetic riches so unfairly, Einstein and Mozart winning the genetic lottery and poor Mike Brown being a loser. Since we are forced to live in the same nation as the genetic losers, since we have to pay for police to arrest them and jails to confine them, the least we can do for them and for ourselves is to help them both in utero and post utero.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin

    Culture (e.g., the “Mozart Effect”, which is the effect upon the developing brain of the young child in which it struggles to make aesthetic sense of the complex and interwoven melodies and harmonies inherent in European Classical music, and grows in ability as a result) is another.
     
    The Mozart Effect? Sheesh.
    , @donut
    "The Turnip Winter example applies to starving adults. Their brains have already formed. But I meant to point out that the developing brain benefits from good nutrition as well as from good genetics."

    Not just adults .

    http://www.histproj.org/completed/COX_War,%20Blockades,%20and%20Hunger.pdf
    I wouldn't expect you read the whole thing but the gist of it is , I believe , that all classes and ages suffered from malnutrition during the war and blockade .
    Am I wrong to think that while some influences such as nutrition and culture can change and effect brain development over time genetics remain constant ? Nutrition can effect brain development as you said but can it effect IQ ? I just don't see that .
    There are always going to be variations in IQ in from moron to genius in any group . We never stop hearing about the high IQs of the Asians and Jews as well as the lower average IQs of Negros here at the Unz Review . Perhaps culture , not necessarily as you defined it , but more in the way of values , priorities and morality is the most important factor in creating a cohesive functioning society . I suppose humanities greatest tragedy is that while the "average" man just wants to go about his business , wants to avoid conflict and trouble , the vermin that have and always will claw it's way to the top of the heap will seek power over his fellow man for his own selfish ends .

    Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

    Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

    Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

    Here is a transcript of his cross examination at Nuremberg , Jackson was outclassed .

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/Goering1.html

    Well I am sorry my friend that is a lot of homework but some of it is informative and very interesting reading .
  99. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    No, I don't have it backwards. I.Q. is determined by multiple factors, genetics being a very important one and early nutrition (which affects brain development) being another. Culture (e.g., the "Mozart Effect", which is the effect upon the developing brain of the young child in which it struggles to make aesthetic sense of the complex and interwoven melodies and harmonies inherent in European Classical music, and grows in ability as a result) is another.

    The Turnip Winter example applies to starving adults. Their brains have already formed. But I meant to point out that the developing brain benefits from good nutrition as well as from good genetics.

    It is salutary for Sailer and Murray and Watson to point out that I.Q. is largely determined by genetics. That's true and important. But the nutritional component to I.Q. means that society can at least do something positive to ameliorate the heartlessness of the "Blind Watchmaker" who passes out his genetic riches so unfairly, Einstein and Mozart winning the genetic lottery and poor Mike Brown being a loser. Since we are forced to live in the same nation as the genetic losers, since we have to pay for police to arrest them and jails to confine them, the least we can do for them and for ourselves is to help them both in utero and post utero.

    Culture (e.g., the “Mozart Effect”, which is the effect upon the developing brain of the young child in which it struggles to make aesthetic sense of the complex and interwoven melodies and harmonies inherent in European Classical music, and grows in ability as a result) is another.

    The Mozart Effect? Sheesh.

    Read More
  100. @Jefferson
    "Northeast Asians (105),"

    Why isn't Mainland China a 1st World Magic Dirt country if their average IQ is 105? That 105 must only apply to the Chinese elites, not the masses. Mainland China has a lower Human Development Index than Brazil.

    Mainland China's dirt does not impress anybody.

    Firstly because China have 1,3 billion ”souls” there… It’s not easy manage 3,5 x of amurrican population.

    Read More
  101. @res
    Good points. One thing I don't have data for is career progression. In some fields I think having a PhD is currently important for advancement. I don't know how this shows up in later career salaries. Still, your delay point tends to overwhelm any purely financial calculation. You are probably aware of the time value of money issue there which makes it even worse than your analysis makes it appear.

    My sense is the most financially sensible non-academic STEM path is to get a BS and then find a company that will pay for an MS or MBA. It's not always about the money though.

    The post-doc business is an incredible scandal IMHO (the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills). The only reason it works at all is most of them are coming off a grad student lifestyle and don’t realize (or don’t care?) how much they are being taking advantage of financially. I suppose if you love the work enough…

    I wonder what happens to post-docs who don’t get tenure. Do they go to the private sector or do stay in academia?

    If they do go to the private sector, can they earn good wages?

    My sense is that if you don’t get on the right career track shortly after finishing college, you’re screwed for life. Mostly because employers look at your previous job. If that previous job wasn’t a “good” (high-paying, big company, high level responsibilities) job, you get screened out. It’s a Catch 22. You can’t get a desirable job because you lack the right experience. Unfortunately, you lack the right experience because you previously didn’t have a desirable job.

    So a non-tenured post-doc basically just has lots of academic work and nothing that appeals to private sector employers, who prefer private sector experience.

    The job market is so hypercompetitive (especially with H-1bs and outsourcing) that lots of employable people get shut out.

    Good points. One thing I don’t have data for is career progression. In some fields I think having a PhD is currently important for advancement. I don’t know how this shows up in later career salaries. Still, your delay point tends to overwhelm any purely financial calculation. You are probably aware of the time value of money issue there which makes it even worse than your analysis makes it appear.

    The engineer and computer science guys might have okay career progression.

    I bet the Biology PHDs get screwed. $36,000 (or $45,000) is just too ridiculously low of a post-doc salary to suggest any type of good career path.

    the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills

    Good observation. The American economy is evolving in a winner-take-all direction. Previously, it was just sports/entertainment that functioned like that. Now entire large sectors are sort of trending in that direction.

    It sucks too. You get a few lucky “winners” who make out like bandits, while the “losers” end up putting in YEARS of hard work without reaping any real rewards.

    It’s like how in sports, a few elite athletes get lucrative pro-contracts (or perhaps starting positions in popular Div 1 NCAA sports programs) and fame, while the masses of athletes toil in obscurity (minor leagues, less popular college sports, amateur leagues). Those “lesser” athletes never end up making it big, but they still work hard and a lot get injured badly early in life. All the downside, with any of the upside.

    People do a PHD and work in academia because they want the easy lifestyle and glamor of a tenured professor. Unfortunately, if you do your PHD and toil for years in academia without getting tenure, you’ve wasted the best years of your personal life (and your professional life). You get all the downside, without any of the upside.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    I wonder what happens to post-docs who don’t get tenure. Do they go to the private sector or do stay in academia?
     
    It would be good to hear from someone who has more knowledge about this. The two examples that come to mind for me ended up
    1. Getting a tenure track position, but moving internationally to do it.
    2. Working at a well respected research lab, but I was unclear on compensation/advancement potential. He seems happy and was able to get married and start a family in a high cost area though.

    Worth mentioning that in demand subjects are an exception (neither of the two cases above were this though).

    So a non-tenured post-doc basically just has lots of academic work and nothing that appeals to private sector employers, who prefer private sector experience.
     
    The big exception I see here is people who did academic work where that body of work then migrated to industry. Deep learning PhDs were in this position a few years ago (e.g. see Geoffrey Hinton and his students).

    I wonder if the tenure track academic market is changing much now that baby boomers are beginning to retire? I think they formed a major bottleneck for a long period.
  102. @Jefferson
    "In most cultures, what Bill Clinton did wouldn’t have gotten much scrutiny. In America, he got into a lot of trouble because there’s a view that people should be honest in relationships. That’s a view that’s prevalent in Northern&Western Euro cultures.

    In China or Japan, it’s customary for powerful men to have lots of mistresses. Nobody thinks twice. If Bill Clinton were the Chinese premier, it would’ve been a non-issue."

    Adultery is extremely common in Western culture because Western culture is not very socially conservative with the exception of fringe demographics like Evangelicals and Mormons.

    There is a reason the Western world has the highest divorce rates on the planet.

    I looked up the numbers.

    In China, 21% of men admit to adultery. Among American Whites, 20%. However, among women, 13% of White-American women and 5% of Chinese women have committed adultery.

    So at least Asian females are more monogamous, but not Asian men.

    Read More
  103. @anon
    So, after you control for education, low-IQ people and high-IQ people have equal probabilities of injecting drugs.

    I suppose, but why would you do that? Obviously the low-IQ people who do make it all the way through college and the low-IQ people who do don't go to all the trouble are going to be different. I'm actually surprised that the low-IQ people who went to college didn't have a lower rate of injecting drugs than the high-IQ people who did. After all, they would have to be more conscientious than the kind of people who could have skated through on natural talent alone.

    My sense is people just assimilate to the norms of their peer group.

    However, being on a good career track provides incentives not to screw up and other types of positive reinforcement. So if you have a dumb kid, it’s still important to get him/her on the right track. That could mean the difference between him becoming a loser (addicted, poor, unemployed) and a decently-paid office drone.

    Read More
  104. @anon
    I’d guess Trayvon’s main problem wasn’t his IQ, but his poor upbringing and environment.

    Well, since we'll never really know what he was actually like before he got shot, it's hard to say. But I can pretty much guess that he was never going to be an astronaut even if he had a totally normal family.

    Actually, recent research has found that the IQ of college graduates has fallen remarkably in recent years. It appears that many low-IQ kids are heading to college these days and grinding it out.

    No, it appears as though they're lowering standards now.

    Hey, if that works, why not just lower them all the way, and just make everyone go to college, and make it even easier than high school? Then Half Sigma could show us that everyone's life will turn out great.

    Actually, in lots of colleges, grading standards are low, as long as you stay out of science/engineering. So it’s easy to graduate.

    Well, engineering is a career track that correlates pretty highly with success, isn't it? Are the grading standards of pre-med pretty low?

    However, my boss does work really long hours (70+ per week), endure quite a bit of stress, skip breakfast and lunch everyday, and seem to hate his life. So I wouldn’t trade places.

    Yeah, and I doubt that most kids who had to sweat their way through pre-algebra really would either. That was kind of my point.

    Asians and Indians. Combined they’re over 40% of humanity.

    Then I would think the the fact that nowhere near 40% of the world's population are doctors and dentists would kind of make you think your analysis might have missed something.

    By the way, a few weeks ago, someone here was arguing that blue collar trades paid better than medicine.

    So I’m serious that the HBD sphere seems to often offer REALLY BAD career advice.

    OK, well, I guess I didn't mean random commenters. Hopefully you wouldn't take career advice from random blog commenters. At least not exclusively.

    Well, since we’ll never really know what he was actually like before he got shot, it’s hard to say. But I can pretty much guess that he was never going to be an astronaut even if he had a totally normal family.

    Okay, but what percent of the posters here are astronauts?

    If Trayvon had a better upbringing and grew up in an area with fewer lower class people, he probably would’ve avoided his confrontation with Zimmerman. He would’ve graduated from high school. If he got enough push, he would’ve graduated from college with some degree. Then maybe he could’ve done something clerical with the govt.

    There are lots of marginal people who make good money. Among blacks, women often do better than men. I’d assume mostly because black culture puts too much on black men being a tough “bad ass” who doesn’t take disrespect, which results in lots of them making bad life choices.

    No, it appears as though they’re lowering standards now.

    There are still plenty of majors for which you still have to pass the same capstone classes that you would’ve decades ago. There are lots of low/medium IQ kids who are doing the same work as the higher-IQ kids, but this wasn’t the case a few decades ago. Mostly because people understand that these days, a college degree is necessary to enter the middle-class.

    Hey, if that works, why not just lower them all the way, and just make everyone go to college, and make it even easier than high school? Then Half Sigma could show us that everyone’s life will turn out great.

    HalfSigma found that after controlling for education, there was no IQ-income correlation. So it’s a rational decision for a low-IQ kid to think about college. Whether it’s good or bad for society, well that’s a different story.

    I did an analysis of the General Social Survey data. I compared the income of people with 75 IQ and a college degree against 125 IQ people with no college degree. The 75-IQ, college-degree people out earned the 125 IQ, no-degree people

    So even if your IQ is 75, it pays to get a college degree. You can still earn a middle-class income and be employed in a good job.

    Then I would think the the fact that nowhere near 40% of the world’s population are doctors and dentists would kind of make you think your analysis might have missed something.

    40% of the world’s population are in cultures in which 85-IQ kids get pushed to be doctors and dentists. That doesn’t imply those countries have seats for every kid.

    China and India, despite their enormous poverty, do produce enormous numbers of engineers. So my analysis is correct. Tiger parents can push lots of dumb kids to get college degrees.

    OK, well, I guess I didn’t mean random commenters. Hopefully you wouldn’t take career advice from random blog commenters. At least not exclusively.

    There are people who would. If they visited HBD sites like this, they’d get the idea that a low-IQ person should avoid college and become a carpenter. When, in reality, the low-IQ kid should go to college and work for a big company.

    Read More
  105. res says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    The post-doc business is an incredible scandal IMHO (the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills). The only reason it works at all is most of them are coming off a grad student lifestyle and don’t realize (or don’t care?) how much they are being taking advantage of financially. I suppose if you love the work enough…
     
    I wonder what happens to post-docs who don't get tenure. Do they go to the private sector or do stay in academia?

    If they do go to the private sector, can they earn good wages?

    My sense is that if you don't get on the right career track shortly after finishing college, you're screwed for life. Mostly because employers look at your previous job. If that previous job wasn't a "good" (high-paying, big company, high level responsibilities) job, you get screened out. It's a Catch 22. You can't get a desirable job because you lack the right experience. Unfortunately, you lack the right experience because you previously didn't have a desirable job.

    So a non-tenured post-doc basically just has lots of academic work and nothing that appeals to private sector employers, who prefer private sector experience.

    The job market is so hypercompetitive (especially with H-1bs and outsourcing) that lots of employable people get shut out.

    Good points. One thing I don’t have data for is career progression. In some fields I think having a PhD is currently important for advancement. I don’t know how this shows up in later career salaries. Still, your delay point tends to overwhelm any purely financial calculation. You are probably aware of the time value of money issue there which makes it even worse than your analysis makes it appear.
     
    The engineer and computer science guys might have okay career progression.

    I bet the Biology PHDs get screwed. $36,000 (or $45,000) is just too ridiculously low of a post-doc salary to suggest any type of good career path.

    the winner take all economics of sports or entertainment except for people with much more universally valuable skills
     
    Good observation. The American economy is evolving in a winner-take-all direction. Previously, it was just sports/entertainment that functioned like that. Now entire large sectors are sort of trending in that direction.

    It sucks too. You get a few lucky "winners" who make out like bandits, while the "losers" end up putting in YEARS of hard work without reaping any real rewards.

    It's like how in sports, a few elite athletes get lucrative pro-contracts (or perhaps starting positions in popular Div 1 NCAA sports programs) and fame, while the masses of athletes toil in obscurity (minor leagues, less popular college sports, amateur leagues). Those "lesser" athletes never end up making it big, but they still work hard and a lot get injured badly early in life. All the downside, with any of the upside.

    People do a PHD and work in academia because they want the easy lifestyle and glamor of a tenured professor. Unfortunately, if you do your PHD and toil for years in academia without getting tenure, you've wasted the best years of your personal life (and your professional life). You get all the downside, without any of the upside.

    I wonder what happens to post-docs who don’t get tenure. Do they go to the private sector or do stay in academia?

    It would be good to hear from someone who has more knowledge about this. The two examples that come to mind for me ended up
    1. Getting a tenure track position, but moving internationally to do it.
    2. Working at a well respected research lab, but I was unclear on compensation/advancement potential. He seems happy and was able to get married and start a family in a high cost area though.

    Worth mentioning that in demand subjects are an exception (neither of the two cases above were this though).

    So a non-tenured post-doc basically just has lots of academic work and nothing that appeals to private sector employers, who prefer private sector experience.

    The big exception I see here is people who did academic work where that body of work then migrated to industry. Deep learning PhDs were in this position a few years ago (e.g. see Geoffrey Hinton and his students).

    I wonder if the tenure track academic market is changing much now that baby boomers are beginning to retire? I think they formed a major bottleneck for a long period.

    Read More
  106. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @27 year old
    Yeah but are there any ubiquitous cheap devices that can kind of eliminate the need to memorize things?

    There’s a British company that invented a smartphone app that it says can make diagnoses 10x as accurate as the average physician, but how would you structure a medical education — or any professional training — without memorization?

    Read More
  107. @Dave Pinsen
    There's a British company that invented a smartphone app that it says can make diagnoses 10x as accurate as the average physician, but how would you structure a medical education -- or any professional training -- without memorization?

    Apprenticeship?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    De facto apprenticeships -- from clerkships, to internships, to residencies, to fellowships -- are already a big part of medical education.
  108. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @27 year old
    Apprenticeship?

    De facto apprenticeships — from clerkships, to internships, to residencies, to fellowships — are already a big part of medical education.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    Only after you grind it out memorizing the phone book
  109. @Dave Pinsen
    De facto apprenticeships -- from clerkships, to internships, to residencies, to fellowships -- are already a big part of medical education.

    Only after you grind it out memorizing the phone book

    Read More
  110. donut says:
    @Eustace Tilley (not)
    No, I don't have it backwards. I.Q. is determined by multiple factors, genetics being a very important one and early nutrition (which affects brain development) being another. Culture (e.g., the "Mozart Effect", which is the effect upon the developing brain of the young child in which it struggles to make aesthetic sense of the complex and interwoven melodies and harmonies inherent in European Classical music, and grows in ability as a result) is another.

    The Turnip Winter example applies to starving adults. Their brains have already formed. But I meant to point out that the developing brain benefits from good nutrition as well as from good genetics.

    It is salutary for Sailer and Murray and Watson to point out that I.Q. is largely determined by genetics. That's true and important. But the nutritional component to I.Q. means that society can at least do something positive to ameliorate the heartlessness of the "Blind Watchmaker" who passes out his genetic riches so unfairly, Einstein and Mozart winning the genetic lottery and poor Mike Brown being a loser. Since we are forced to live in the same nation as the genetic losers, since we have to pay for police to arrest them and jails to confine them, the least we can do for them and for ourselves is to help them both in utero and post utero.

    “The Turnip Winter example applies to starving adults. Their brains have already formed. But I meant to point out that the developing brain benefits from good nutrition as well as from good genetics.”

    Not just adults .

    http://www.histproj.org/completed/COX_War,%20Blockades,%20and%20Hunger.pdf

    I wouldn’t expect you read the whole thing but the gist of it is , I believe , that all classes and ages suffered from malnutrition during the war and blockade .
    Am I wrong to think that while some influences such as nutrition and culture can change and effect brain development over time genetics remain constant ? Nutrition can effect brain development as you said but can it effect IQ ? I just don’t see that .
    There are always going to be variations in IQ in from moron to genius in any group . We never stop hearing about the high IQs of the Asians and Jews as well as the lower average IQs of Negros here at the Unz Review . Perhaps culture , not necessarily as you defined it , but more in the way of values , priorities and morality is the most important factor in creating a cohesive functioning society . I suppose humanities greatest tragedy is that while the “average” man just wants to go about his business , wants to avoid conflict and trouble , the vermin that have and always will claw it’s way to the top of the heap will seek power over his fellow man for his own selfish ends .

    Göring: Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

    Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

    Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

    Here is a transcript of his cross examination at Nuremberg , Jackson was outclassed .

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/Goering1.html

    Well I am sorry my friend that is a lot of homework but some of it is informative and very interesting reading .

    Read More

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
A simple remedy for income stagnation
Confederate Flag Day, State Capitol, Raleigh, N.C. -- March 3, 2007
The major media overlooked Communist spies and Madoff’s fraud. What are they missing today?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored