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"My Holocaust: A Novel:" Paleogeneticist David Reich's Mom's Satire on His Dad's Job in the Holocaust Business
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One thing you can pick up reading between the lines in paleogeneticist David “Aryan Conquests Were True” Reich’s Who We Are is that he has some issues, family issues, concerning his own personal ancestry.

This is only natural because he is researching, in effect, family trees, and everybody’s own family has a treeful of issues.

The main difference is that poor David’s family plays them out on the public stage. David’s psychoanalyst father studied under Freud’s daughter Anna and was director of the National Holocaust Memorial in Washington DC.

David’s novelist mother then wrote a satirical novel about the Holocaust Industry.

From Amazon:

My Holocaust: A Novel

Hardcover – April 3, 2007
by Tova Reich (Author)
3.3 out of 5 stars 17 customer reviews
$6.99

Maurice and Norman Messer, father-and-son business partners, know a good product when they see it. That product is the Holocaust, and Maurice, a Holocaust survivor with an inflated personal history, and Norman, enjoying vicarious victimhood as a participant in the second-generation movement, proceed to market it enthusiastically. Not even the disappearance of Nechama, Norman’s daughter and Maurice’s granddaughter, into the Carmelite convent at Auschwitz, where she is transformed into a nun, Sister Consolatia of the Cross, deters them from pushing their agenda.

Father and son embark on a tour of the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp, which Maurice—now the driving force behind the most powerful Holocaust memorialization institution in America—organizes to soften up a potential major donor, and which Norman takes advantage of to embark on a surrealistic search for his daughter. At the death camp they run into assorted groups and individuals all clamoring for a piece of the Holocaust, including Buddhist New Agers on a retreat, Israeli schoolchildren on a required heritage pilgrimage, a Holocaust artifact hustler, filmmakers, and an astonishing collection of others. All hell breaks loose when Maurice’s museum is taken over by a coalition of self-styled victims seeking Holocaust status, bringing together a vivid cast of all-too-human characters, from Holocaust professionals to Holocaust wannabees of every persuasion, in the fevered competition to win the grand prize of owning the Holocaust.

An inspiringly courageous and shockingly original tour-de-force, My Holocaust dares to penetrate territory until now considered sacrosanct in its brilliantly provocative and darkly comic exploration of the uses and abuses of memory and the meaning of human suffering.

Thanks, Mom!

David doesn’t come across as particularly comfortable with irony, so I have to feel a little sorry for the guy.

The New York Times hated Mrs. Reich’s novel.

The Forward, on the other hand, liked it:

The Greatest Shoah on Earth
Gabriel SandersMarch 23, 2007
My Holocaust
By Tova Reich
HarperCollins, 336 pages, $24.95.

Of all the hucksters, fakers, phonies and wannabes to have been spawned by the so-called “Shoah business,” few can hold a (yahrzeit) candle to Maurice Messer, the fumbling, stumbling, malapropism-spewing figure at the heart of Tova Reich’s deliciously wicked satirical novel “My Holocaust.”

A wheeler-dealer, schnorrer, glutton and letch — and, yes, a Holocaust survivor — Messer got his start in ladies’ undergarments. But when the Holocaust became “more fashionable even than padded brassieres,” he changed course and, together with his nebbish son, Norman, founded Holocaust Connections, Inc., a concern devoted to lending the imprimatur of the Holocaust to any and all comers — for the right price, of course. In his quest for self-aggrandizement, the old man lies about having fought with the partisans and is willing to betray even his nearest and dearest; in short, there is nobody Messer — German for “knife” — wouldn’t stab in the back. Oh, and he is also chairman of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C.

Despite his many successes, Messer has a problem: His one and only grandchild, Nechama, a girl weaned on tales of Jewish tragedy and suffering, has gone off script — or has perhaps followed the family script all too literally. This “Holocaust princess,” who at her bat mitzvah insisted on being twinned with a Vilna girl cut down by the Nazis, has taken up as her own private cause the persecution of the world’s Christians, the “Christian Holocaust,” as she defiantly puts it. Undeterred by protests from her family (“Christians are not — I repeat not! — acceptable Holocaust material,” her father wails), she enters a convent, and not just any old convent. She joins up with the Carmelite sisters housed just outside the gates of Auschwitz.

Reich is no stranger to the world of Holocaust commemoration — indeed, no stranger to the twisted tale of the Carmelite sisters of Auschwitz. When, in 1989, a group of protesters scaled the fence surrounding the convent, which at that time was located on the grounds of the death camp itself, they were led by her brother Rabbi Avi Weiss — or “that crazy spiderman rabbi,” as one of the novel’s characters calls him. The author is also the wife of Walter Reich, who served as director of D.C.’s Holocaust museum from 1994 to 1998. His departure came in the aftermath of a public relations disaster set into motion by a botched attempt to have Yasser Arafat visit the institution. Though the invitation was said to have been initiated by the museum’s then chairman, Miles Lerman, it seemed as though Reich was made to take the fall.

“My Holocaust” is clearly an attempt to settle some old scores. Yet, while there are similarities between Lerman and Messer — as there are ties between Messer’s chief aide, Monty Pincus, and historian Michael Berenbaum — it would be a mistake to see Reich’s novel as a simple roman à clef. The book is far more than the story of a couple of boobs trying to run a museum. It is, rather, a much grander indictment, an indictment of an entire universe of groups — Catholic, Mormon, German, Polish, Japanese, African American, Native American, Palestinian, feminist and more — all looking to claim their own little slice of Holocaust victimhood.

Like I said, among his mom, dad, and uncle, “that crazy spiderman rabbi,” poor David has ancestral issues. We all do, but David is suddenly the World’s Leading Authority on ancestry.

 
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  1. The premise of that novel actually sounds pretty good. If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.

    Of course, how the novel plays out could be an altogether different story.

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    • Replies: @Tim Howells

    I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.
     
    My thoughts exactly. I Hope it's reissued as "Muh Holocaust"
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  2. An Amazon comment:

    A mean spirited book. Written only to revenge the author’s husband who was the former director of the Holocaust Museum and who was UNJUSTLY dismissed from the Museum. For those who do not know this fact, the bitter caricatures of the Museum’s leaders will not amuse them, but will have the effect of undermining the Museum’s reason for existence. Shame on you Tova, you can do better.

    Wonder what the backstory to the husband’s dismissal is?

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross

    but will have the effect of undermining the Museum’s reason for existence
     
    I love how they're completely unapologetic totalitarians who cannot stop campaigning for their little faction on existential grounds for ten seconds. Here I thought the museum's reason for existence was a unique and unquestionable historical tragedy, Hitlerian goofball that I am. No, what we must never forget are the top level donors and the salty pillars of the community.
    , @Jack D
    It's alluded to up above. Somehow, Yasser Arafat got invited to tour the museum. Arafat was a Jew killer - a man with real blood on his hands. You might as well have invited Eichmann. When other Jewish organizations found out, there was an uproar and Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.
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  3. aha.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/19/us/arafat-gaffe-brings-ouster-at-a-museum.html?search-input-2=walter+reich

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum forced its director to resign today, ending a troubled tenure that was highlighted by an embarrassing on-again-off-again invitation last month to Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader.

    Several friends of the director, Dr. Walter Reich, said the invitation to Mr. Arafat — which was extended, revoked, then extended again and finally declined — was such a public relations debacle that top museum officials needed a scapegoat.

    While the Arafat incident almost certainly led to the ouster, internal tensions had been brewing for some time between Dr. Reich and the chairman of the museum’s council, Miles Lerman. At the time, Mr. Lerman publicly blamed Dr. Reich for the invitation embarrassment, saying the director had given him ”bad advice.” Mr. Lerman declined to comment today.

    Dr. Reich, a psychiatrist with no curatorial experience, wanted to expand the museum as a seat of academic research. Mr. Lerman, a Holocaust survivor and now a real estate developer in New Jersey, was described as more eager to promote the museum politically and involve it in current events.

    Marvin Kalb, director of the Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard, and also a friend of Dr. Reich, said the resignation ”reflects a deeper philosophic difference, rooted in the central vision of whether the Holocaust Museum should be used tactically and politically and Reich feeling that this was wrong.”

    The museum holds the Western Hemisphere’s largest collection of research material on the Holocaust. Of the current $49 million annual budget, about $30 million comes from the Federal Government.

    Read More
    • Replies: @O'Really
    Here is a version of those events as described by Marvin Kalb, who was friends with Walter Reich.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-02-24/news/9802240053_1_miles-lerman-walter-reich-arafat-visit
    , @ChrisZ
    Oy! That last paragraph shocked me into looking up a more recent federal subsidy figure for the H. Museum. In 2013 it was $48 million, according to this source:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/192422/federal-funding-of-the-holocaust-memorial-museum/

    I guess there really is no bizness like... (you know the rest).
    , @El Dato
    If Mount Arafat doesn't come to the Holocaust Museum, then the Holocaust Museum will have to come to Mount Arafat.
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  4. Ouch!

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  5. David doesn’t come across as particularly comfortable with irony

    Their humor is noting social awkwardness and our humor is Kali dancing on the face of her lover. Let’s try to make David feel better.
    David, your mom sounds nice, you got any pictures of her?

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  6. Sounds really hillarious. If the blurb is faithful to the content, I’m amazed that she was able to get away with it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    She has all the right credentials; this helps to get away with a lot of stuff ordinary people could never.
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  7. That must suck, having your own mother walk over your and your dad’s balls in print.

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    • Replies: @Silva
    Read again. It's been suggested that she was actually taking revenge on her husband's behalf, which was exactly as suprising to me as I imagine it'll be for you.
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  8. I’ll buy that novel.

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  9. @BelleCurvie
    An Amazon comment:

    A mean spirited book. Written only to revenge the author's husband who was the former director of the Holocaust Museum and who was UNJUSTLY dismissed from the Museum. For those who do not know this fact, the bitter caricatures of the Museum's leaders will not amuse them, but will have the effect of undermining the Museum's reason for existence. Shame on you Tova, you can do better.
     
    Wonder what the backstory to the husband's dismissal is?

    but will have the effect of undermining the Museum’s reason for existence

    I love how they’re completely unapologetic totalitarians who cannot stop campaigning for their little faction on existential grounds for ten seconds. Here I thought the museum’s reason for existence was a unique and unquestionable historical tragedy, Hitlerian goofball that I am. No, what we must never forget are the top level donors and the salty pillars of the community.

    Read More
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  10. “Vicarious” is a very apt word.

    I know someone who has called a lot of people Nazis and fascists. He spoke lovingly of a pre-war Germany where Einstein could gallivant with the Berlin Orchestra (or something). He lamented how the Nazis had destroyed that. (actually I believe they were big supporters of orchestras). But then he welcomed how Germany’s music will change – sounded quite sinister to my ear.

    What was his connection? Did he have grandparents who survived the Holocaust? No. His connection was only his step-grandfather, and I imagine he emigrated before the war.

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  11. Cynthia Ozick on Walter Reich and reviews of the novel:

    http://rusoffagency.com/book-info/the-jewish-week-feature/

    It was Reich, standing wholly alone, who had the necessary courage to resist administrative and political pressure to conduct the terror chieftain Yasir Arafat on a tour of the museum — a tour of the kind reserved for visiting foreign dignitaries.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    But Arafat was a foreign dignitary at the time, having already been awarded a shared Nobel Peace Prize, feted at the White House, etc.

    The original sin here was putting the Holocaust museum on donated federal land in the nation's capital. That made it a quasi-governmental institution and made attempts to politicize it inevitable.
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  12. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Jews are smart but they overlooked something that could be bigger than Holocaust. Holorection, or Resurrection after holocaust. Google that never does Easter will surely have major doodles for that.

    The problem with Holocaust is it’s only depressing and gloomy. It’s all about guilt.

    If Christianity was all about ‘you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you’, it would have been a real downer. But there was more: the story of Resurrection, Jesus’ return, and the spread of the faith. So, there was guilt but also a sense of redemption and salvation, on occasion to sing Handel’s Hallelujah.

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.
    But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel. Suppose another concept be created called Holorection(though I worry what Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein might make of it) or Holocaust-Resurrection.

    This would be a sunny tale that blesses those who helped Jews and cheered them on AFTER the war and holocaust. It would be the sunlight after the storm. And then, Holocaust-Holorection can truly be a far more effective neo-religion.

    So, add an element of redemption to Holocaust theme, and people will love it. That was the hook of SCHINDLER’S LIST. Sure the bad nazis were killing Jews. But there was George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter. It wasn’t just about guilt but redemption.

    Holorection Day can be occasion where people sing and dance and give gifts to Jews.
    After Holocaust Month, there can be Holorection Month.

    PS. I hope Jews don’t take up on this idea. It’s too good.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Leon Uris's Exodus is a novel along the lines you suggest.
    , @Emblematic
    The appearance of the state of Israel fits your requirements. A miraculous rebirth transmutating ultimate catastrophe into inviolable right.
    , @Pericles

    If Christianity was all about ‘you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you’, it would have been a real downer. ...

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.

     

    Eh, modern white religion skips the forgiveness part. It works surprisingly well anyway; "you rescued us from the death camps, you irredeemable deplorables, and we will righteously destroy you for it". See also the sprouting Academic Grievance Priesthood for other versions on the same theme.
    , @Tom Nicholson
    George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter

    The Mr. Potter character couldn't have been more Jewish if he had been wearing a kippa. He was greedy, stingy, conniving, physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure) and physically unattractive. He owned practically everything in town and was ever greedy for more. He looked down at everyone else in town as worthless rabble i.e. goyim. When Clarence allowed George Bailey to see what Bedford Falls would be like without him, Mr Potter owned everything and the town was a den of iniquity. Only boomers could be so blind about Mr. Potter.
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  13. Misha Defonseca (born Monique de Wael; 12 May 1937 in Etterbeek) is a Belgian-born writer and the author of a fictitious Holocaust memoir titled Misha: A Mémoire of the Holocaust Years, first published in 1997 and at that time professed to be a true memoir. It became an instant success in Europe and was translated into 18 languages.[1] The French version of the book[2] was a derivative work based on the original with the title Survivre avec les loups that was published in 1997 by the Éditions Robert Laffont; this second version was adapted into the French film Survivre avec les loups (Surviving with Wolves).

    On 29 February 2008, the author as well as her lawyers admitted that the bestselling book was a hoax, despite its having been presented as autobiographical.[3] In 2014 a court ordered Defonseca to repay her publisher $22 million.[4]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misha_Defonseca

    Did they get the $22 M back?

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    • Replies: @Anon

    Did they get the $22 M back?
     
    Misha - "Why would I give that $15 million back? $3 million is a lot of money! I'll give you $10,000."
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  14. @BelleCurvie
    aha.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/19/us/arafat-gaffe-brings-ouster-at-a-museum.html?search-input-2=walter+reich

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum forced its director to resign today, ending a troubled tenure that was highlighted by an embarrassing on-again-off-again invitation last month to Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader.

    Several friends of the director, Dr. Walter Reich, said the invitation to Mr. Arafat -- which was extended, revoked, then extended again and finally declined -- was such a public relations debacle that top museum officials needed a scapegoat.

    While the Arafat incident almost certainly led to the ouster, internal tensions had been brewing for some time between Dr. Reich and the chairman of the museum's council, Miles Lerman. At the time, Mr. Lerman publicly blamed Dr. Reich for the invitation embarrassment, saying the director had given him ''bad advice.'' Mr. Lerman declined to comment today.
     
    ...

    Dr. Reich, a psychiatrist with no curatorial experience, wanted to expand the museum as a seat of academic research. Mr. Lerman, a Holocaust survivor and now a real estate developer in New Jersey, was described as more eager to promote the museum politically and involve it in current events.
     
    ...

    Marvin Kalb, director of the Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard, and also a friend of Dr. Reich, said the resignation ''reflects a deeper philosophic difference, rooted in the central vision of whether the Holocaust Museum should be used tactically and politically and Reich feeling that this was wrong.''

    The museum holds the Western Hemisphere's largest collection of research material on the Holocaust. Of the current $49 million annual budget, about $30 million comes from the Federal Government.
     

    Here is a version of those events as described by Marvin Kalb, who was friends with Walter Reich.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-02-24/news/9802240053_1_miles-lerman-walter-reich-arafat-visit

    Read More
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  15. @BelleCurvie
    aha.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/19/us/arafat-gaffe-brings-ouster-at-a-museum.html?search-input-2=walter+reich

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum forced its director to resign today, ending a troubled tenure that was highlighted by an embarrassing on-again-off-again invitation last month to Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader.

    Several friends of the director, Dr. Walter Reich, said the invitation to Mr. Arafat -- which was extended, revoked, then extended again and finally declined -- was such a public relations debacle that top museum officials needed a scapegoat.

    While the Arafat incident almost certainly led to the ouster, internal tensions had been brewing for some time between Dr. Reich and the chairman of the museum's council, Miles Lerman. At the time, Mr. Lerman publicly blamed Dr. Reich for the invitation embarrassment, saying the director had given him ''bad advice.'' Mr. Lerman declined to comment today.
     
    ...

    Dr. Reich, a psychiatrist with no curatorial experience, wanted to expand the museum as a seat of academic research. Mr. Lerman, a Holocaust survivor and now a real estate developer in New Jersey, was described as more eager to promote the museum politically and involve it in current events.
     
    ...

    Marvin Kalb, director of the Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard, and also a friend of Dr. Reich, said the resignation ''reflects a deeper philosophic difference, rooted in the central vision of whether the Holocaust Museum should be used tactically and politically and Reich feeling that this was wrong.''

    The museum holds the Western Hemisphere's largest collection of research material on the Holocaust. Of the current $49 million annual budget, about $30 million comes from the Federal Government.
     

    Oy! That last paragraph shocked me into looking up a more recent federal subsidy figure for the H. Museum. In 2013 it was $48 million, according to this source:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/192422/federal-funding-of-the-holocaust-memorial-museum/

    I guess there really is no bizness like… (you know the rest).

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  16. Interestingly, Tova Reich’s brother was a controversial Rabbi who broke from Orthodoxy to form a movement criticized as “Neo-Conservative” (in the sense of Conservative Judaism, not the movement of the Podhoretz and Kristol families).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Weiss

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  17. I pity the guy even more now.

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  18. David’s mom sounds really cool.

    From a one star Amazon review:

    A mean spirited book. Written only to revenge the author’s husband who was the former director of the Holocaust Museum and who was UNJUSTLY dismissed from the Museum.

    Read More
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  19. @BelleCurvie
    aha.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/19/us/arafat-gaffe-brings-ouster-at-a-museum.html?search-input-2=walter+reich

    The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum forced its director to resign today, ending a troubled tenure that was highlighted by an embarrassing on-again-off-again invitation last month to Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader.

    Several friends of the director, Dr. Walter Reich, said the invitation to Mr. Arafat -- which was extended, revoked, then extended again and finally declined -- was such a public relations debacle that top museum officials needed a scapegoat.

    While the Arafat incident almost certainly led to the ouster, internal tensions had been brewing for some time between Dr. Reich and the chairman of the museum's council, Miles Lerman. At the time, Mr. Lerman publicly blamed Dr. Reich for the invitation embarrassment, saying the director had given him ''bad advice.'' Mr. Lerman declined to comment today.
     
    ...

    Dr. Reich, a psychiatrist with no curatorial experience, wanted to expand the museum as a seat of academic research. Mr. Lerman, a Holocaust survivor and now a real estate developer in New Jersey, was described as more eager to promote the museum politically and involve it in current events.
     
    ...

    Marvin Kalb, director of the Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard, and also a friend of Dr. Reich, said the resignation ''reflects a deeper philosophic difference, rooted in the central vision of whether the Holocaust Museum should be used tactically and politically and Reich feeling that this was wrong.''

    The museum holds the Western Hemisphere's largest collection of research material on the Holocaust. Of the current $49 million annual budget, about $30 million comes from the Federal Government.
     

    If Mount Arafat doesn’t come to the Holocaust Museum, then the Holocaust Museum will have to come to Mount Arafat.

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  20. Whatever giant demons the Reich family may have cursed him with, this particular David at least has slain enough of them to free his mind for significant work. Good for him. Would that everyone could be so successful with their own psychological slingshots.

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  21. anonymous[116] • Disclaimer says:

    “David doesn’t come across as particularly comfortable with irony…”.

    Well, you have to admit he seems comfortable with his surname.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    His mother and father were both prominent, making David the third Reich to rise to that level.
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  22. Having a name like Reich doesn’t help either.

    His project: The 100,000 yr Reich.

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    • Replies: @FLgeezer
    >His project: The 100,000 yr Reich.

    LOL!
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  23. @anonymous
    "David doesn’t come across as particularly comfortable with irony...".

    Well, you have to admit he seems comfortable with his surname.

    His mother and father were both prominent, making David the third Reich to rise to that level.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I had a lot of fun telling a Jewish liberal about my having seen the Rolling Stones in 1989, I had him reeled in for the drop, which was that it was a great tragedy in my opinion that the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl. He was "literally" speechless, that is, he could not talk, he was so....well, whatever he was, it was pretty extreme.
    , @TelfoedJohn

    His mother and father were both prominent, making David the third Reich to rise to that level.
     
    His wife is notable for a book on scientific fraud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_Fantastic

    ... so happily there is a fourth reich.
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  24. @Andy
    Sounds really hillarious. If the blurb is faithful to the content, I'm amazed that she was able to get away with it.

    She has all the right credentials; this helps to get away with a lot of stuff ordinary people could never.

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  25. “Tova Reich” is awfully close to Товарищ, or comrade.

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  26. Is Tova Reich the noms de plume of Kevin MacDonald and Norman Finkelstein?

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  27. This is only natural because he is researching, in effect, family trees, and everybody’s own family has a treeful of issues.

    Especially once said tree is turned into a woodpile.

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  28. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:

    The “ladies’ undergarments” bit sounds like a homage à Roderick Spode

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  29. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    His mother and father were both prominent, making David the third Reich to rise to that level.

    I had a lot of fun telling a Jewish liberal about my having seen the Rolling Stones in 1989, I had him reeled in for the drop, which was that it was a great tragedy in my opinion that the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl. He was “literally” speechless, that is, he could not talk, he was so….well, whatever he was, it was pretty extreme.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gunner29

    the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl.
     
    BUT she did photograph Jagger's wedding to Bianca! Look it up.

    Teh holocaust must support a large percentage of Zyds these days.

    I read a lot of military history, section 940.xxx in the libary. The commie libarians only buy a couple of 940 books a year and at least one will be about Teh holocaust.

    If you want to see commies in action, check out the ALA, american Libary association. The only groups to the left of them are Castroites is Cuba and Jung Ilites in Nork....
    , @Dave Pinsen
    There's a hilarious scene in the Gilbert Gottfried documentary where there's WWII LARPing convention at his hotel, and a fan in Wehrmacht uniform comes up to Gilbert at his merch table. The Nazi LARPer opens with, "Sorry about the uniform," and Gilbert says, "Why, is it wrinkled?". Then the guy asks if he can tell Gilbert a Michael Jackson joke and Gilbert's clutching his sides laughing at that point.
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  30. Brilliant find, Steve. Bravo!

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  31. @utu
    Cynthia Ozick on Walter Reich and reviews of the novel:

    http://rusoffagency.com/book-info/the-jewish-week-feature/
    It was Reich, standing wholly alone, who had the necessary courage to resist administrative and political pressure to conduct the terror chieftain Yasir Arafat on a tour of the museum — a tour of the kind reserved for visiting foreign dignitaries.

    But Arafat was a foreign dignitary at the time, having already been awarded a shared Nobel Peace Prize, feted at the White House, etc.

    The original sin here was putting the Holocaust museum on donated federal land in the nation’s capital. That made it a quasi-governmental institution and made attempts to politicize it inevitable.

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  32. But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel.

    I must protest that neither the founding of the Zionist State that calls itself ‘Israel’ nor the rise of at least much of what is called “Jewish power and wealth” were any blessing for The Jews. Quite the opposite.

    You are quite correct that what can only be described as effective Holocaust-worship (or, as I believe you have called it, Holocaustianity) has replaced Judaism for far too many Jews. Zionism and Cultural Marxism are perhaps the two most prominent and significant among the many other false gods that many Jews have been led astray by.

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  33. [To replace previous]

    @ #9, Anon[121]:

    But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel.

    I must protest that neither the founding of the Zionist State that calls itself ‘Israel’ nor the rise of at least much of what is called “Jewish power and wealth” were any blessing for The Jews. Quite the opposite.

    You are quite correct that for too many Jews, what can only be described as effective Holocaust-worship (or, as I believe you have called it, Holocaustianity) has replaced Judaism. Zionism and Cultural Marxism are additional false gods that have led astray many Jews.

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  34. @Anon
    Jews are smart but they overlooked something that could be bigger than Holocaust. Holorection, or Resurrection after holocaust. Google that never does Easter will surely have major doodles for that.

    The problem with Holocaust is it's only depressing and gloomy. It's all about guilt.

    If Christianity was all about 'you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you', it would have been a real downer. But there was more: the story of Resurrection, Jesus' return, and the spread of the faith. So, there was guilt but also a sense of redemption and salvation, on occasion to sing Handel's Hallelujah.

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.
    But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel. Suppose another concept be created called Holorection(though I worry what Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein might make of it) or Holocaust-Resurrection.

    This would be a sunny tale that blesses those who helped Jews and cheered them on AFTER the war and holocaust. It would be the sunlight after the storm. And then, Holocaust-Holorection can truly be a far more effective neo-religion.

    So, add an element of redemption to Holocaust theme, and people will love it. That was the hook of SCHINDLER'S LIST. Sure the bad nazis were killing Jews. But there was George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter. It wasn't just about guilt but redemption.

    Holorection Day can be occasion where people sing and dance and give gifts to Jews.
    After Holocaust Month, there can be Holorection Month.

    PS. I hope Jews don't take up on this idea. It's too good.

    Leon Uris’s Exodus is a novel along the lines you suggest.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Exodus was a huge deal, as a book and later, a movie. It even had John Derek as an Arab who pronounces "Moslem' the old way.

    https://youtu.be/6gmBfWDW9tU
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  35. @Logical Meme
    The premise of that novel actually sounds pretty good. If I didn't know any better, I'd have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.

    Of course, how the novel plays out could be an altogether different story.

    I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.

    My thoughts exactly. I Hope it’s reissued as “Muh Holocaust”

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  36. The premise of that novel actually sounds pretty good. If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.

    Since the absolutely wonderful Cynthia Ozick describes it as “a ferocious work of serious satiric genius,” my first thought is whether any “Alt Right publishing house” has ever published any fiction that might even approach this novel in quality?

    I suspect not, but I am very open to suggestions.

    Also, this Tova sounds like an awesome girl. She wrote a great, smart and funny book solely to defend her husband and burn his enemies. What a wife!

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    my first thought is whether any “Alt Right publishing house” has ever published any fiction that might even approach this novel in quality?

    This is sick, this is more mentally ill than me talking about my Abigail Shapiro pillow. A fictitious and undefined straw man, that has existed (or been attested) for about a year, and which is the target of establishment-approved physical violence when identified in public, is discredited by its inability to keep pace with a centennial publishing monopoly? Pace yourself, we're coming up on some windmills.
    But I guarantee you the weakest 4chan comment is better in quality than the lazy, illiterate, and clumsy Aharon Appelfeld, better written than "the Sugar-Coated Scrotum," less silly than Herman Wouk, more honest than Leon Uris, and funnier than almost all Hebraic comedy professionals, so that's a start.
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  37. @Diversity Heretic
    Leon Uris's Exodus is a novel along the lines you suggest.

    Exodus was a huge deal, as a book and later, a movie. It even had John Derek as an Arab who pronounces “Moslem’ the old way.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn't make movies like this anymore.

    https://youtu.be/KIUVbQEaB0E?t=3m10s
    , @Olorin
    I seem to recall that the erm climax of the film involves the rape and murder (by Arabs of course) of the flaxen-haired blue-eyed girl on the left in the still above. Jill Haworth.

    Or maybe it's when lemon-blonde Eva Marie Saint (right, above) decides to throw over her life and work and friends in the US to follow hunky Paul Newman, the avatar of Israel, The Nation. So manly and blue-eyed and good with guns and such. Israel first, especially for gorgeous blonde women.

    Though Newman's character's heart will always belong to the heroic Jewish gal he once loved. She of course died in battle, so they have a statue to her at the kibbutz. But a guy has to move on, and it's not like there's mating material in the kibbutz among the dumpy and dark Jewish gals.

    Haworth's character Karin is a "Danish Jew" "refugee"; in the novel iirc her character was a German Jew. In the movie she is presented as an avatar of the Sixties generation of Bright Young Zionists...

    ...along with her love interest character, the swarthy femmey Dov, played by Haworth's later real-life squeeze Sal Mineo. His character's torment is partly that he's a Jew, and you know how bad that is and all...but more that he got handed around as a sex toy. By Nazis of course. At Auschwitz of course. (Not, of course, Hollywood.)

    Karin's character looks and talks like those heavily sexualized Scandinavian shiksas later used widely in 1960s advertising and mass culture to sell stuff or get a laugh against top 2% Northern European women. Like Max Bialystock's secretary. Or the shaving-cream-selling lady who equated men shaving with stripping.
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  38. @Dave Pinsen
    Exodus was a huge deal, as a book and later, a movie. It even had John Derek as an Arab who pronounces "Moslem' the old way.

    https://youtu.be/6gmBfWDW9tU

    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn’t make movies like this anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Israel has two main founding myths: the Holocaust and Masada. My impression is that Masada is increasing in relative importance just as Hanukah went from a very minor festival to something quite major after the Six-Day war.

    To many Israeli Jews the Holocaust represents the nadir not just of the treatment of Jews but also the moral character of Jews. Separated from their homeland, their soil and purpose, it is seen that the Holocaust victims often went meekly to their own slaughter. 'Never again' is therein taken not to be an embrace of eternal victimhood but an outright rejection of it.

    A story told to me by an IDF veteran and intended as a post hoc preminotory warning of the Holocaust might be summarised as this:

    During the pogroms the Cossacks attacked a Jewish village. The men hid in a cupboard as the Cossacks only came to kill the men. The women were raped in view of the cupboard. The men did nothing.

    The moral being 'Never again'.

    Other reasons for the emphasizing of Masada include that most young Israelis are only part Ashkenazi and Masada applies to all Jews. Also, that it obviously took place in Israel.

    Of course the story is somewhat the other way around for many diaspora Jews. Many of whom don't know Masada while the eternal victimhood narrative of the Holocaust is more present-day. It also fits far better into what the contemporary West values.

    Personally, I find an overemphasis on founding myths to be unnecessary, but perhaps that is a sort of reverse Dunning-Kruger effect of the type Charles Murray identifies when he argues that the elite no longer preaches what it practices. However if one is to be picked I prefer the one that steals valour rather than steals misery. I get that the Holocaust was a current event for those nearing the end of their lives but for younger generations a focus on it feels maudlin and ennervating. I suspect that it will fade away in fits and bursts as the next couple of generations pass while Masada will remain.
    , @FPD72
    And Frank Sinatra, in a cameo appearance, portrayed the pilot of a small aircraft who hand-dropped homemade bombs on Arab soldiers.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    One of the weirdest parts of Antony Beevor's Stalingrad book was where he quotes Wehrmacht 6th Army officers comparing themselves to the Masada Zealots.
    , @FLgeezer
    >in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn’t make movies like this anymore.

    They don't have to. With a volunteer army, everyone fights for the Izzies whether they realize it or not.
    Our poor kids. 8-(
    , @Hibernian
    I saw that scene, though probably not the whole movie, on TV as a kid. I remember also the scene where Wayne threatens Douglas with court martial for insubordination when they liberated the camps and Douglas very emotionally demanded that they devote all their energies to the prisoners. This scene of course references that scene as well as the earlier one, which I don't remember and probably didn't see, over Normandy.
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  39. @George
    Misha Defonseca (born Monique de Wael; 12 May 1937 in Etterbeek) is a Belgian-born writer and the author of a fictitious Holocaust memoir titled Misha: A Mémoire of the Holocaust Years, first published in 1997 and at that time professed to be a true memoir. It became an instant success in Europe and was translated into 18 languages.[1] The French version of the book[2] was a derivative work based on the original with the title Survivre avec les loups that was published in 1997 by the Éditions Robert Laffont; this second version was adapted into the French film Survivre avec les loups (Surviving with Wolves).

    On 29 February 2008, the author as well as her lawyers admitted that the bestselling book was a hoax, despite its having been presented as autobiographical.[3] In 2014 a court ordered Defonseca to repay her publisher $22 million.[4]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misha_Defonseca

    Did they get the $22 M back?

    Did they get the $22 M back?

    Misha – “Why would I give that $15 million back? $3 million is a lot of money! I’ll give you $10,000.”

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  40. @Anon
    Jews are smart but they overlooked something that could be bigger than Holocaust. Holorection, or Resurrection after holocaust. Google that never does Easter will surely have major doodles for that.

    The problem with Holocaust is it's only depressing and gloomy. It's all about guilt.

    If Christianity was all about 'you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you', it would have been a real downer. But there was more: the story of Resurrection, Jesus' return, and the spread of the faith. So, there was guilt but also a sense of redemption and salvation, on occasion to sing Handel's Hallelujah.

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.
    But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel. Suppose another concept be created called Holorection(though I worry what Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein might make of it) or Holocaust-Resurrection.

    This would be a sunny tale that blesses those who helped Jews and cheered them on AFTER the war and holocaust. It would be the sunlight after the storm. And then, Holocaust-Holorection can truly be a far more effective neo-religion.

    So, add an element of redemption to Holocaust theme, and people will love it. That was the hook of SCHINDLER'S LIST. Sure the bad nazis were killing Jews. But there was George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter. It wasn't just about guilt but redemption.

    Holorection Day can be occasion where people sing and dance and give gifts to Jews.
    After Holocaust Month, there can be Holorection Month.

    PS. I hope Jews don't take up on this idea. It's too good.

    The appearance of the state of Israel fits your requirements. A miraculous rebirth transmutating ultimate catastrophe into inviolable right.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    No, Israel has become too divisive, esp with mess in West Bank and Gaza.

    Anti-Zionist passions run high, even in EU... and is catching even in some parts of US.

    So, Holorection can't be specific to a nation. It has to be about a general feeling of miraculous rebirth from the ashes and the ground.
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  41. @Anon
    Jews are smart but they overlooked something that could be bigger than Holocaust. Holorection, or Resurrection after holocaust. Google that never does Easter will surely have major doodles for that.

    The problem with Holocaust is it's only depressing and gloomy. It's all about guilt.

    If Christianity was all about 'you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you', it would have been a real downer. But there was more: the story of Resurrection, Jesus' return, and the spread of the faith. So, there was guilt but also a sense of redemption and salvation, on occasion to sing Handel's Hallelujah.

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.
    But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel. Suppose another concept be created called Holorection(though I worry what Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein might make of it) or Holocaust-Resurrection.

    This would be a sunny tale that blesses those who helped Jews and cheered them on AFTER the war and holocaust. It would be the sunlight after the storm. And then, Holocaust-Holorection can truly be a far more effective neo-religion.

    So, add an element of redemption to Holocaust theme, and people will love it. That was the hook of SCHINDLER'S LIST. Sure the bad nazis were killing Jews. But there was George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter. It wasn't just about guilt but redemption.

    Holorection Day can be occasion where people sing and dance and give gifts to Jews.
    After Holocaust Month, there can be Holorection Month.

    PS. I hope Jews don't take up on this idea. It's too good.

    If Christianity was all about ‘you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you’, it would have been a real downer. …

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.

    Eh, modern white religion skips the forgiveness part. It works surprisingly well anyway; “you rescued us from the death camps, you irredeemable deplorables, and we will righteously destroy you for it”. See also the sprouting Academic Grievance Priesthood for other versions on the same theme.

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  42. @Dave Pinsen
    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn't make movies like this anymore.

    https://youtu.be/KIUVbQEaB0E?t=3m10s

    Israel has two main founding myths: the Holocaust and Masada. My impression is that Masada is increasing in relative importance just as Hanukah went from a very minor festival to something quite major after the Six-Day war.

    To many Israeli Jews the Holocaust represents the nadir not just of the treatment of Jews but also the moral character of Jews. Separated from their homeland, their soil and purpose, it is seen that the Holocaust victims often went meekly to their own slaughter. ‘Never again’ is therein taken not to be an embrace of eternal victimhood but an outright rejection of it.

    A story told to me by an IDF veteran and intended as a post hoc preminotory warning of the Holocaust might be summarised as this:

    During the pogroms the Cossacks attacked a Jewish village. The men hid in a cupboard as the Cossacks only came to kill the men. The women were raped in view of the cupboard. The men did nothing.

    The moral being ‘Never again’.

    Other reasons for the emphasizing of Masada include that most young Israelis are only part Ashkenazi and Masada applies to all Jews. Also, that it obviously took place in Israel.

    Of course the story is somewhat the other way around for many diaspora Jews. Many of whom don’t know Masada while the eternal victimhood narrative of the Holocaust is more present-day. It also fits far better into what the contemporary West values.

    Personally, I find an overemphasis on founding myths to be unnecessary, but perhaps that is a sort of reverse Dunning-Kruger effect of the type Charles Murray identifies when he argues that the elite no longer preaches what it practices. However if one is to be picked I prefer the one that steals valour rather than steals misery. I get that the Holocaust was a current event for those nearing the end of their lives but for younger generations a focus on it feels maudlin and ennervating. I suspect that it will fade away in fits and bursts as the next couple of generations pass while Masada will remain.

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    • Replies: @Ian M.
    That's interesting about Masada becoming a founding myth for Israelis.

    What about the Exodus? I would think that with the number of Orthodox increasing in Israel, this venerable founding myth would also return to prominence.


    Personally, I find an overemphasis on founding myths to be unnecessary...
     
    Well, describing it as an 'overemphasis' would seem by definition to make it unnecessary. But regardless of whether or not they are overemphasized today (I don't know), founding myths are necessary for any society, both for its self-understanding and to legitimate itself.
    , @J.Ross
    Your analysis rings true in terms of how myths work but I am unaware of anyone imprisoned, hounded out of work, physically attacked and threatened with death for impugning the midcentury repopularization of the Masada story.
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  43. Anon[235] • Disclaimer says:

    The first few pages are rather funny indeed. Here’s a passage that’s quite amusing in these MeToo times:

    “By now, of course, the father and son partners knew all the flight attendants on the airline, specializing in the women. Maurice persisted in referring to them politically incorrectly as “hoistesses,” a teasing liberty for which he took the precaution of propitiating them, just in case, with small offerings from the luxury hotels of Warsaw and Krakow – miniature shampoos or scented soaps from the bathrooms, chocolate hearts wrapped in gold foil plucked off the pillows atop the turned-down bedsheets. He squeezed and harassed their vivid blondness and springy buxomness hello and good-bye and thank you, muttering, “Don’t worry, girls, don’t worry, I’m safe.” “And he gets away with it too,” as Norman painstakingly and unnecessarily explained to his wife, Arlene, “because he’s this cute little tubby old bald Jewish guy with pudgy hands and a funny accent, and the dumb chicks from Czestochowa, they think he’s harmless-big mistake, ladies!-so it turns into a stereotypical Polish joke.”

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  44. I haven’t read this novel (nor do I intend to, I don’t read novels anymore), but it dawned on me, when I was reading reviews: this all goes beyond personal vendetta & hilarious, ruin-the-sacred-truths satire. More than a vengeance, this novel must have been a therapeutic experience for its author. It purged her (at least for a time), I think.

    Generally, it is about Jewish victimization narrative, as well as about victim-centered identitarian cultural politics America has adopted in past few decades. Judging from excerpts & quotes, Mrs. Reich had savaged not only shoah industry, but beyond that- Jewish modern identity. Or any identity based on obsession, whether victimological or not.

    Are US Jews in this respect different from other American ethnics? Yes and no. I doubt such an iconoclastic book, making savage fun of their community’s sacred cows could have been written by a black or a Hispanic, even less so by Asian-American. On the other hand, Jews are more obsessed & self-centered.

    Or to put it differently: virtually all racial/ethnic minorities are like spoiled babies, trying to fleece their parents as much as they can; Jews are adults with strong psychotic elements in their collective psyche (I know this is a metaphor).

    The corollary would be: is there a healthy, productive & relaxed Jewish identity that still remains Jewish? Or, perhaps, Auschwitz was just an intensifier of basically unhappy consciousness…

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  45. The Forward’s review concluded: “It is, rather, a much grander indictment, an indictment of an entire universe of groups — Catholic, Mormon, German, Polish, Japanese, African American, Native American, Palestinian, feminist and more — all looking to claim their own little slice of Holocaust victimhood.”

    You see, not just a couple of machers on the make (“trying to run a museum”), but all those other nations trying to cash in, umm, I mean, horn in on the Holocaust, that’s what it’s about.

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    • Replies: @DFH

    Polish
     
    ,

    After all, what did Poles really suffer in the Second World War anyway?
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  46. @Dave Pinsen
    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn't make movies like this anymore.

    https://youtu.be/KIUVbQEaB0E?t=3m10s

    And Frank Sinatra, in a cameo appearance, portrayed the pilot of a small aircraft who hand-dropped homemade bombs on Arab soldiers.

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  47. @yaqub the mad scientist
    That must suck, having your own mother walk over your and your dad's balls in print.

    Read again. It’s been suggested that she was actually taking revenge on her husband’s behalf, which was exactly as suprising to me as I imagine it’ll be for you.

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  48. @BelleCurvie
    An Amazon comment:

    A mean spirited book. Written only to revenge the author's husband who was the former director of the Holocaust Museum and who was UNJUSTLY dismissed from the Museum. For those who do not know this fact, the bitter caricatures of the Museum's leaders will not amuse them, but will have the effect of undermining the Museum's reason for existence. Shame on you Tova, you can do better.
     
    Wonder what the backstory to the husband's dismissal is?

    It’s alluded to up above. Somehow, Yasser Arafat got invited to tour the museum. Arafat was a Jew killer – a man with real blood on his hands. You might as well have invited Eichmann. When other Jewish organizations found out, there was an uproar and Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Captain Tripps

    "...Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision."
     
    You shouldn't let him off the hook. If he was the Director, he has final decision authority for inviting VIPs, unless you can produce a governing document that says otherwise. He made a very poor decision, one that fundamentally called his leadership into question. Or more accurately, vacillated, then made a poor decision. He should have emphatically rejected the Arafat visit proposal up front on clearly stated principles, and let the critics be damned. Dismissal was appropriate.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.
     
    Aye; there's the rub, no? The rest of us are silent unwitting partners as this intra-tribal duel continues to play out.
    , @AnotherDad

    It’s alluded to up above. Somehow, Yasser Arafat got invited to tour the museum. Arafat was a Jew killer – a man with real blood on his hands. You might as well have invited Eichmann.
     
    Jack you know this is nonsense. I'm no fan of Arafat, and yes he's a Jew killer, but comparing him to Eichmann is ridiculous propaganda.

    Arafat was engaged in a war--a flat out territorital dispute--with Israelis\Jews. That is a different thing than genocide. Heck we--the US--killed millions of Germans and Japanese during the war. Despite the extreme numbers it's wasn't an attempted genocide it was an attempt to inflict tremendous pain--you could call it "terror"--and make them cry "uncle" and give up. If Arafat had had the planes, tanks and quality (needed much higher IQs than Arabs have) soldiers to defeat Israel and push the Jews out--like the Jews had done to the Palestinians--he'd have done it. He had no such capabilities so he resorted to the poor man's tactic--retail terrorism.

    Even "The New Republic" after 911 had a piece pointing out that the "war on terror" was confusing conflicts--Israel, Ireland, Kashmir, the Kurds--which are essentially traditional territorial disputes, subject to normal political resolution, while the Al-Qaeda/Wahhabi terror which is an ideology
    --like communism--that is fundamentally and implacably in opposition with liberal democracy and simply must be defeated.

    Even the Israelis don't really believe your analogy. If Arafat was really like Eichmann, then Rabin should not have negoitiated or shook hands with him. There would be no point.

    This idea that anyone having a conflict with Jews or Israel is ... "literally Hitler", is one of those obviously bogus talking points, whose repetition just
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  49. Sure, it can seem that ghoulish Holocaust commemoration has become the core of Jewish observance nowadays. Sure, some of those commemorators can be crass. Sure, some Jews have paraded their suffering before the world, insisting it is unique. Sure, much of it is ripe for ridicule, and ridicule can purify. But when the near annihilation of a culture is at issue, it’s hard to pull off; even Cynthia Ozick hasn’t tried. And if you manage to, so what? Ultimately, Reich’s obsessions are not just unseemly but picayune, and “My Holocaust” is far more likely to infuriate or distract than to cleanse.

    This last paragraph of the New York Times review is interesting. First he tries to persuade his readers that their is more to being Jewish than the Holocaust but then he refers to the “near annihilation of a culture”. He doesn’t refer to Jews as a race or ethnic group or even as a religion but as a culture, like guys who build model airplanes are a culture or guys who are active in candlepin bowling are a culture. Who is he speaking to here? Is it other Jews who will resent being called a race or is it boomers who still believe that Jews are literally Dear fellow white people? Or is it both? To a non-boomer goy it really does confirm the stereotype of Jews being all about muh holocaust.

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  50. @Hunsdon
    The Forward's review concluded: "It is, rather, a much grander indictment, an indictment of an entire universe of groups — Catholic, Mormon, German, Polish, Japanese, African American, Native American, Palestinian, feminist and more — all looking to claim their own little slice of Holocaust victimhood."

    You see, not just a couple of machers on the make ("trying to run a museum"), but all those other nations trying to cash in, umm, I mean, horn in on the Holocaust, that's what it's about.

    Polish

    ,

    After all, what did Poles really suffer in the Second World War anyway?

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  51. There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.

    Shrewd observation.

    Jews and their unique-in-human-history Holocaust represent the collective persecution and suffering of the human race. It’s a heavy burden to bear, but somehow they manage it for the the benefit of all humanity (and Jews above all). Kinda like Jesus. No, wait…

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  52. @Anon
    Jews are smart but they overlooked something that could be bigger than Holocaust. Holorection, or Resurrection after holocaust. Google that never does Easter will surely have major doodles for that.

    The problem with Holocaust is it's only depressing and gloomy. It's all about guilt.

    If Christianity was all about 'you sinful mankind killed Jesus, shame on you', it would have been a real downer. But there was more: the story of Resurrection, Jesus' return, and the spread of the faith. So, there was guilt but also a sense of redemption and salvation, on occasion to sing Handel's Hallelujah.

    So far, Holocaust has been used to just beat people over the head.
    But there is the other story. Rise of Jewish power and wealth from the ashes. The founding of Israel. Suppose another concept be created called Holorection(though I worry what Anthony Weiner and Harvey Weinstein might make of it) or Holocaust-Resurrection.

    This would be a sunny tale that blesses those who helped Jews and cheered them on AFTER the war and holocaust. It would be the sunlight after the storm. And then, Holocaust-Holorection can truly be a far more effective neo-religion.

    So, add an element of redemption to Holocaust theme, and people will love it. That was the hook of SCHINDLER'S LIST. Sure the bad nazis were killing Jews. But there was George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter. It wasn't just about guilt but redemption.

    Holorection Day can be occasion where people sing and dance and give gifts to Jews.
    After Holocaust Month, there can be Holorection Month.

    PS. I hope Jews don't take up on this idea. It's too good.

    George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter

    The Mr. Potter character couldn’t have been more Jewish if he had been wearing a kippa. He was greedy, stingy, conniving, physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure) and physically unattractive. He owned practically everything in town and was ever greedy for more. He looked down at everyone else in town as worthless rabble i.e. goyim. When Clarence allowed George Bailey to see what Bedford Falls would be like without him, Mr Potter owned everything and the town was a den of iniquity. Only boomers could be so blind about Mr. Potter.

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    • Replies: @njguy73

    physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure)
     
    To be fair, the Potter character was not originally written that way. Lionel Barrymore just happened to have arthritis and a bad hip.
    , @Anon
    I never saw him as a Jewish-like character. He was too humorless, crusty, and reactionary.

    If anyone in the movie is Jewishy, it's Sammy Wainright.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Physical deformity is a characteristic Jewish trait?

    During the housing crash, Ross Douthat wrote that it was basically Baileyism that brought it about:

    If the global economy survives the autumn and our cable-TV companies are still in business come Christmas, Americans surfing the channels for classic Yuletide movies may finally figure out exactly whom they have to blame for the housing bubble and everything that has followed. Forget the predatory lenders, Wall Street sharks and their government enablers: It all started with George Bailey.

    Yes, that George Bailey -- the hero of Frank Capra's "It's a Wonderful Life," the most popular man in Bedford Falls, the man so indispensable that he earned a private visitation from a guardian angel just to show him how dreadful a world without him would have been. It's easy to forget, so potent is the supernaturally charged final act of Capra's classic, that before he was visiting looking-glass worlds where he'd never been born or scampering through the snow and shouting "Merry Christmas!" till his lungs burst, Jimmy Stewart's George Bailey was actually a pretty savvy businessman. And it's even easier to forget the precise nature of his business: putting the downscale families of Bedford Falls into homes they couldn't quite afford to buy.
     
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  53. The novel looks like a hoot. There’s no business like Shoah business, as Abba Eban said.

    But I’m trying to understand where it fits in with Steve Sailer and the alt-right’s depiction of Jews as a slimy bunch with zero ability to see their own foibles, though.

    I have to think that one through.

    Wait a minute. The book is a reverse triple head fake, designed to make dumb goys think that Jews have an ability to see their own foibles. By George, I’ve got it!

    PS Tova sounds like a hoot. She wrote another novel, A Hundred Philistine Foreskins…. David is really an interesting study. But I’m more interested in his work. Really.

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  54. Oh by the way, about that convent that used to be on the grounds of Auschwitz, The Forward ran a piece defending their presence, during the controversy drummed up by Odious Avi Weiss.

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  55. David “Aryan Conquests Were True” Reich’s Who We Are…has some issues, family issues, concerning his own personal ancestry.

    Not to mention his surname I should think. That’s gotta burn in the psyche like an ice-lens.

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  56. @Jack D
    It's alluded to up above. Somehow, Yasser Arafat got invited to tour the museum. Arafat was a Jew killer - a man with real blood on his hands. You might as well have invited Eichmann. When other Jewish organizations found out, there was an uproar and Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.

    “…Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision.”

    You shouldn’t let him off the hook. If he was the Director, he has final decision authority for inviting VIPs, unless you can produce a governing document that says otherwise. He made a very poor decision, one that fundamentally called his leadership into question. Or more accurately, vacillated, then made a poor decision. He should have emphatically rejected the Arafat visit proposal up front on clearly stated principles, and let the critics be damned. Dismissal was appropriate.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.

    Aye; there’s the rub, no? The rest of us are silent unwitting partners as this intra-tribal duel continues to play out.

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    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    Okay Jack, I've gone back and read the Kalb article in the Chicago Tribune, and read the Public Law establishing the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (and Council):

    (PL 106-292. http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/106/292.pdf)

    And the Council By-Laws:

    (https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20120629-bylaws.pdf)

    The Executive Committee (12 voting members, one non-voting member, the Director) has decision-making authority when the Council is not in session, except for certain specific matters listed in the by-laws. The Director, under this governing structure, really is just an advisor, almost a figurehead essentially (he may have hiring/firing authority over museum employees, but its not clear).

    With this additional knowledge and understanding, I revise my earlier remark and conclude that Mr. Reich did indeed advise and act on strong principle, and was thrown under the bus by the ExCom for their own vacillation. His removal was unwarranted as per Kalb's Chicago Tribune editorial.

    Mea Culpa
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  57. Read More
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  58. @Jack D
    It's alluded to up above. Somehow, Yasser Arafat got invited to tour the museum. Arafat was a Jew killer - a man with real blood on his hands. You might as well have invited Eichmann. When other Jewish organizations found out, there was an uproar and Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.

    It’s alluded to up above. Somehow, Yasser Arafat got invited to tour the museum. Arafat was a Jew killer – a man with real blood on his hands. You might as well have invited Eichmann.

    Jack you know this is nonsense. I’m no fan of Arafat, and yes he’s a Jew killer, but comparing him to Eichmann is ridiculous propaganda.

    Arafat was engaged in a war–a flat out territorital dispute–with Israelis\Jews. That is a different thing than genocide. Heck we–the US–killed millions of Germans and Japanese during the war. Despite the extreme numbers it’s wasn’t an attempted genocide it was an attempt to inflict tremendous pain–you could call it “terror”–and make them cry “uncle” and give up. If Arafat had had the planes, tanks and quality (needed much higher IQs than Arabs have) soldiers to defeat Israel and push the Jews out–like the Jews had done to the Palestinians–he’d have done it. He had no such capabilities so he resorted to the poor man’s tactic–retail terrorism.

    Even “The New Republic” after 911 had a piece pointing out that the “war on terror” was confusing conflicts–Israel, Ireland, Kashmir, the Kurds–which are essentially traditional territorial disputes, subject to normal political resolution, while the Al-Qaeda/Wahhabi terror which is an ideology
    –like communism–that is fundamentally and implacably in opposition with liberal democracy and simply must be defeated.

    Even the Israelis don’t really believe your analogy. If Arafat was really like Eichmann, then Rabin should not have negoitiated or shook hands with him. There would be no point.

    This idea that anyone having a conflict with Jews or Israel is … “literally Hitler”, is one of those obviously bogus talking points, whose repetition just

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  59. @Anonymous
    I had a lot of fun telling a Jewish liberal about my having seen the Rolling Stones in 1989, I had him reeled in for the drop, which was that it was a great tragedy in my opinion that the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl. He was "literally" speechless, that is, he could not talk, he was so....well, whatever he was, it was pretty extreme.

    the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl.

    BUT she did photograph Jagger’s wedding to Bianca! Look it up.

    Teh holocaust must support a large percentage of Zyds these days.

    I read a lot of military history, section 940.xxx in the libary. The commie libarians only buy a couple of 940 books a year and at least one will be about Teh holocaust.

    If you want to see commies in action, check out the ALA, american Libary association. The only groups to the left of them are Castroites is Cuba and Jung Ilites in Nork….

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Quite right, Riefenstahl worked as a still photographer and as a documentary filmmaker after WWII (she was still working at 100) but was never allowed to make a theatrical release after that. Jagger knew her fairly well, I am sure he'd had the thought of her filming the Stones cross his mind, and I'm equally sure he was dissuaded from this.

    I doubt that she would have brought much to seeing the band itself perform, but the crowd reaction, that is another thing entirely. Among rock and roll band frontpersons, Mick Jagger is in a class by himself in terms of getting the crowd to pay attention to him. After him there are a couple dozen men and maybe three or four women, but none with his level of command. A Stones gig is pretty much unique in the level of crowd dynamic uniformity that you see, or at least, in the one I saw, and from the descriptions of others who've seen them tens of times and hundreds of other shows as well. (I have pretty well quit attending concerts, as the money involved has become insane. Things may be different now or in the very recent past.)

    James Brown and (fundie preacher) Jimmy Swaggart are also noteworthy, but that isn't quite 'fronting a rock and roll band'.

    As far as librarians go, it is impossible to get a job with any level of control at all at any library above one in a <5000 population community without holding the Masters of Library Science degree. My dealings with MLS holders have convinced me in every single instance, without fail, that they are universally leftist and universally stupid to boot. I have had dealings with dozens and every one so far has shown herself or himself to be low IQ, low energy, and thoroughly inculcated in a culture that is essentially Cultural Marxist.

    Most libraries have been purged of any really useful books, therefore, besides basic DIY stuff and even that is getting rarer.
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  60. @Dave Pinsen
    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn't make movies like this anymore.

    https://youtu.be/KIUVbQEaB0E?t=3m10s

    One of the weirdest parts of Antony Beevor’s Stalingrad book was where he quotes Wehrmacht 6th Army officers comparing themselves to the Masada Zealots.

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    • Replies: @Venator
    I find it quite fitting, with Stalingrad having been kind of a Masada situation. After accepting their fate as hopeless, among the Germans there was much talk about suicide, mercy-killing of the wounded and so on.
    , @J.Ross
    Was there wide pop-cultural knowledge of Masada in the forties or was this a comparison made by survivors much later?
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  61. @Dave Pinsen
    Exodus was a huge deal, as a book and later, a movie. It even had John Derek as an Arab who pronounces "Moslem' the old way.

    https://youtu.be/6gmBfWDW9tU

    I seem to recall that the erm climax of the film involves the rape and murder (by Arabs of course) of the flaxen-haired blue-eyed girl on the left in the still above. Jill Haworth.

    Or maybe it’s when lemon-blonde Eva Marie Saint (right, above) decides to throw over her life and work and friends in the US to follow hunky Paul Newman, the avatar of Israel, The Nation. So manly and blue-eyed and good with guns and such. Israel first, especially for gorgeous blonde women.

    Though Newman’s character’s heart will always belong to the heroic Jewish gal he once loved. She of course died in battle, so they have a statue to her at the kibbutz. But a guy has to move on, and it’s not like there’s mating material in the kibbutz among the dumpy and dark Jewish gals.

    Haworth’s character Karin is a “Danish Jew” “refugee”; in the novel iirc her character was a German Jew. In the movie she is presented as an avatar of the Sixties generation of Bright Young Zionists…

    …along with her love interest character, the swarthy femmey Dov, played by Haworth’s later real-life squeeze Sal Mineo. His character’s torment is partly that he’s a Jew, and you know how bad that is and all…but more that he got handed around as a sex toy. By Nazis of course. At Auschwitz of course. (Not, of course, Hollywood.)

    Karin’s character looks and talks like those heavily sexualized Scandinavian shiksas later used widely in 1960s advertising and mass culture to sell stuff or get a laugh against top 2% Northern European women. Like Max Bialystock’s secretary. Or the shaving-cream-selling lady who equated men shaving with stripping.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Why did you put "Danish Jew" and "refugee" in scare quotes?

    It makes sense that Haworth's character is essentially a Jewish shiksa -- the idea is for non Jews to identify with her.

    It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I don't recall a lot of "dumpy" women in the kibbutz. Hollywood tended to cast attractive women in movies back then.
    , @Vinteuil
    Now that's some serious familiarity with mid-to-late twentieth century pop-culture.

    Are you sure you aren't Mark Steyn?
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  62. @Captain Tripps

    "...Reich, Sr. was made the fall guy even though it was not really his sole decision."
     
    You shouldn't let him off the hook. If he was the Director, he has final decision authority for inviting VIPs, unless you can produce a governing document that says otherwise. He made a very poor decision, one that fundamentally called his leadership into question. Or more accurately, vacillated, then made a poor decision. He should have emphatically rejected the Arafat visit proposal up front on clearly stated principles, and let the critics be damned. Dismissal was appropriate.

    There is always a tension in Shoah Business between making the Holocaust the symbol of universal human suffering and having it be something that is specifically Jewish.
     
    Aye; there's the rub, no? The rest of us are silent unwitting partners as this intra-tribal duel continues to play out.

    Okay Jack, I’ve gone back and read the Kalb article in the Chicago Tribune, and read the Public Law establishing the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (and Council):

    (PL 106-292. http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/106/292.pdf)

    And the Council By-Laws:

    (https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20120629-bylaws.pdf)

    The Executive Committee (12 voting members, one non-voting member, the Director) has decision-making authority when the Council is not in session, except for certain specific matters listed in the by-laws. The Director, under this governing structure, really is just an advisor, almost a figurehead essentially (he may have hiring/firing authority over museum employees, but its not clear).

    With this additional knowledge and understanding, I revise my earlier remark and conclude that Mr. Reich did indeed advise and act on strong principle, and was thrown under the bus by the ExCom for their own vacillation. His removal was unwarranted as per Kalb’s Chicago Tribune editorial.

    Mea Culpa

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  63. @Dave Pinsen
    One of the weirdest parts of Antony Beevor's Stalingrad book was where he quotes Wehrmacht 6th Army officers comparing themselves to the Masada Zealots.

    I find it quite fitting, with Stalingrad having been kind of a Masada situation. After accepting their fate as hopeless, among the Germans there was much talk about suicide, mercy-killing of the wounded and so on.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Except that the Germans started out as the Romans, and their leader (despite Hitler's wishes) didn't kill himself. And, for that matter, neither did most of his men.

    And there's the whole bit about the Nazi genocide against Jews at the time.

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  64. The book is far more than the story of a couple of boobs trying to run a museum. It is, rather, a much grander indictment, an indictment of an entire universe of groups — Catholic, Mormon, German, Polish, Japanese, African American, Native American, Palestinian, feminist and more — all looking to claim their own little slice of Holocaust victimhood.

    In my experience of reading it both in English and Yiddish, Forverts often can be honest where others aren’t. In this quote it is admitted:

    “Holocaust victimhood” is real estate, and Jews control it.

    As an INDICTMENT of others, of course. The rent-seeking/-charging is just reparations.

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    • Replies: @Old Jew
    Ir kent leynen Yiddish? (Can you read in Yiddish?)
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  65. @Buzz Mohawk
    His mother and father were both prominent, making David the third Reich to rise to that level.

    His mother and father were both prominent, making David the third Reich to rise to that level.

    His wife is notable for a book on scientific fraud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_Fantastic

    … so happily there is a fourth reich.

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  66. The self-proclaimed experts on all things Jewish here on iSteve is an endless source of SMH “amusement”.

    !חג עצמאות שמח!

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Never as amusing as Jewish self-appointed experts on all things. But there is a way out: you could stop telling us what MUST be DONE every ten seconds.
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  67. I’m still waiting for Steve Sailer’s great book (essay or fiction) about the Golfocaust and the creation of Jewish Country Clubs, like so many tiny Israels to give asylum and comfort to the masses of Jewish golfers and upstart socialites shunned by the evil goyim. There’s a Pulitzer right there for the taking.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    There's probably not a Pulitzer in anything Steve would write these days, but Steve probably has a great novel in him. Think Bonfire of the Vanities but set in Los Angeles, with golf, and an odder, more 21st Century, ethnic mix (men with gold chains, etc.).
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  68. @Tyrion 2
    Israel has two main founding myths: the Holocaust and Masada. My impression is that Masada is increasing in relative importance just as Hanukah went from a very minor festival to something quite major after the Six-Day war.

    To many Israeli Jews the Holocaust represents the nadir not just of the treatment of Jews but also the moral character of Jews. Separated from their homeland, their soil and purpose, it is seen that the Holocaust victims often went meekly to their own slaughter. 'Never again' is therein taken not to be an embrace of eternal victimhood but an outright rejection of it.

    A story told to me by an IDF veteran and intended as a post hoc preminotory warning of the Holocaust might be summarised as this:

    During the pogroms the Cossacks attacked a Jewish village. The men hid in a cupboard as the Cossacks only came to kill the men. The women were raped in view of the cupboard. The men did nothing.

    The moral being 'Never again'.

    Other reasons for the emphasizing of Masada include that most young Israelis are only part Ashkenazi and Masada applies to all Jews. Also, that it obviously took place in Israel.

    Of course the story is somewhat the other way around for many diaspora Jews. Many of whom don't know Masada while the eternal victimhood narrative of the Holocaust is more present-day. It also fits far better into what the contemporary West values.

    Personally, I find an overemphasis on founding myths to be unnecessary, but perhaps that is a sort of reverse Dunning-Kruger effect of the type Charles Murray identifies when he argues that the elite no longer preaches what it practices. However if one is to be picked I prefer the one that steals valour rather than steals misery. I get that the Holocaust was a current event for those nearing the end of their lives but for younger generations a focus on it feels maudlin and ennervating. I suspect that it will fade away in fits and bursts as the next couple of generations pass while Masada will remain.

    That’s interesting about Masada becoming a founding myth for Israelis.

    What about the Exodus? I would think that with the number of Orthodox increasing in Israel, this venerable founding myth would also return to prominence.

    Personally, I find an overemphasis on founding myths to be unnecessary…

    Well, describing it as an ‘overemphasis’ would seem by definition to make it unnecessary. But regardless of whether or not they are overemphasized today (I don’t know), founding myths are necessary for any society, both for its self-understanding and to legitimate itself.

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  69. @Jimi Shmendrix
    The self-proclaimed experts on all things Jewish here on iSteve is an endless source of SMH "amusement".

    !חג עצמאות שמח!

    Never as amusing as Jewish self-appointed experts on all things. But there is a way out: you could stop telling us what MUST be DONE every ten seconds.

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    • Replies: @Jimi Shmendrix
    *I* never told you to do anything.

    *I* am not responsible for actions taken by others.
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  70. @Anonymous
    I had a lot of fun telling a Jewish liberal about my having seen the Rolling Stones in 1989, I had him reeled in for the drop, which was that it was a great tragedy in my opinion that the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl. He was "literally" speechless, that is, he could not talk, he was so....well, whatever he was, it was pretty extreme.

    There’s a hilarious scene in the Gilbert Gottfried documentary where there’s WWII LARPing convention at his hotel, and a fan in Wehrmacht uniform comes up to Gilbert at his merch table. The Nazi LARPer opens with, “Sorry about the uniform,” and Gilbert says, “Why, is it wrinkled?”. Then the guy asks if he can tell Gilbert a Michael Jackson joke and Gilbert’s clutching his sides laughing at that point.

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  71. @Olorin
    I seem to recall that the erm climax of the film involves the rape and murder (by Arabs of course) of the flaxen-haired blue-eyed girl on the left in the still above. Jill Haworth.

    Or maybe it's when lemon-blonde Eva Marie Saint (right, above) decides to throw over her life and work and friends in the US to follow hunky Paul Newman, the avatar of Israel, The Nation. So manly and blue-eyed and good with guns and such. Israel first, especially for gorgeous blonde women.

    Though Newman's character's heart will always belong to the heroic Jewish gal he once loved. She of course died in battle, so they have a statue to her at the kibbutz. But a guy has to move on, and it's not like there's mating material in the kibbutz among the dumpy and dark Jewish gals.

    Haworth's character Karin is a "Danish Jew" "refugee"; in the novel iirc her character was a German Jew. In the movie she is presented as an avatar of the Sixties generation of Bright Young Zionists...

    ...along with her love interest character, the swarthy femmey Dov, played by Haworth's later real-life squeeze Sal Mineo. His character's torment is partly that he's a Jew, and you know how bad that is and all...but more that he got handed around as a sex toy. By Nazis of course. At Auschwitz of course. (Not, of course, Hollywood.)

    Karin's character looks and talks like those heavily sexualized Scandinavian shiksas later used widely in 1960s advertising and mass culture to sell stuff or get a laugh against top 2% Northern European women. Like Max Bialystock's secretary. Or the shaving-cream-selling lady who equated men shaving with stripping.

    Why did you put “Danish Jew” and “refugee” in scare quotes?

    It makes sense that Haworth’s character is essentially a Jewish shiksa — the idea is for non Jews to identify with her.

    It’s been a while since I saw the movie, but I don’t recall a lot of “dumpy” women in the kibbutz. Hollywood tended to cast attractive women in movies back then.

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    They weren't scare quotes, c'mon.

    I explained the "Danish Jew"--in the novel the Karin character was a German Jew, but for some reason Otto Preminger changed that.

    "Refugee" is in quotes because to my knowledge Denmark wasn't doing anything to its Jews but protecting them. Deciding to leave a country for your own reasons then declaring yourself a refugee is a tactic that we should be able to see through In The Current Year.

    Dumpy might be the wrong word, but thick and hirsute is how I remember the chicks out in the courtyard working out with guns or whatever. Admittedly I last saw this movie in the 1990s, so all I retain is the strong impression that the Jewish kibbutz ladies were no Eva Marie Saints...and I seem to recall that in the Leon Uris novel he went out of his way to describe her character an Aryan goddess nurse from the American Germanic heartland.

    It makes sense that Haworth’s character is essentially a Jewish shiksa — the idea is for non Jews to identify with her.
     
    You can say the same thing about the white women in race mixing propaganda today. If it "makes sense," it's not to me.
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  72. @Venator
    I find it quite fitting, with Stalingrad having been kind of a Masada situation. After accepting their fate as hopeless, among the Germans there was much talk about suicide, mercy-killing of the wounded and so on.

    Except that the Germans started out as the Romans, and their leader (despite Hitler’s wishes) didn’t kill himself. And, for that matter, neither did most of his men.

    And there’s the whole bit about the Nazi genocide against Jews at the time.

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  73. @BB753
    I'm still waiting for Steve Sailer's great book (essay or fiction) about the Golfocaust and the creation of Jewish Country Clubs, like so many tiny Israels to give asylum and comfort to the masses of Jewish golfers and upstart socialites shunned by the evil goyim. There's a Pulitzer right there for the taking.

    There’s probably not a Pulitzer in anything Steve would write these days, but Steve probably has a great novel in him. Think Bonfire of the Vanities but set in Los Angeles, with golf, and an odder, more 21st Century, ethnic mix (men with gold chains, etc.).

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    • Agree: BB753
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  74. @Anon
    Having a name like Reich doesn't help either.

    His project: The 100,000 yr Reich.

    >His project: The 100,000 yr Reich.

    LOL!

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  75. @Dave Pinsen
    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn't make movies like this anymore.

    https://youtu.be/KIUVbQEaB0E?t=3m10s

    >in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn’t make movies like this anymore.

    They don’t have to. With a volunteer army, everyone fights for the Izzies whether they realize it or not.
    Our poor kids. 8-(

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  76. As I said recently in another TUR thread, the quickest way to get me to take a big dump on your narrative is to declare it “sacrosanct.”

    Keep that nonsense in church; it doesn’t belong in the study of history.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Today NPR complained for a good long time about how a survey found that all the Holocaust museums and Holocaust movies and Holocaust classes and Holocaust speakers weren't working. Their answer was more Holocaust museums, and possibly mandatory attendence. They said nothing about Herschlag's recent thoughtcrime that Holocaust education would be more effective if you didn't batter people over the head with it. Of course, it's a paradox, because anyone smart enough to read a book about Auschwitz is smart enough to think illegal thoughts about our Greatest Ally.
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  77. @Tom Nicholson
    George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter

    The Mr. Potter character couldn't have been more Jewish if he had been wearing a kippa. He was greedy, stingy, conniving, physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure) and physically unattractive. He owned practically everything in town and was ever greedy for more. He looked down at everyone else in town as worthless rabble i.e. goyim. When Clarence allowed George Bailey to see what Bedford Falls would be like without him, Mr Potter owned everything and the town was a den of iniquity. Only boomers could be so blind about Mr. Potter.

    physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure)

    To be fair, the Potter character was not originally written that way. Lionel Barrymore just happened to have arthritis and a bad hip.

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  78. @Svigor
    As I said recently in another TUR thread, the quickest way to get me to take a big dump on your narrative is to declare it "sacrosanct."

    Keep that nonsense in church; it doesn't belong in the study of history.

    Today NPR complained for a good long time about how a survey found that all the Holocaust museums and Holocaust movies and Holocaust classes and Holocaust speakers weren’t working. Their answer was more Holocaust museums, and possibly mandatory attendence. They said nothing about Herschlag’s recent thoughtcrime that Holocaust education would be more effective if you didn’t batter people over the head with it. Of course, it’s a paradox, because anyone smart enough to read a book about Auschwitz is smart enough to think illegal thoughts about our Greatest Ally.

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  79. @Olorin
    I seem to recall that the erm climax of the film involves the rape and murder (by Arabs of course) of the flaxen-haired blue-eyed girl on the left in the still above. Jill Haworth.

    Or maybe it's when lemon-blonde Eva Marie Saint (right, above) decides to throw over her life and work and friends in the US to follow hunky Paul Newman, the avatar of Israel, The Nation. So manly and blue-eyed and good with guns and such. Israel first, especially for gorgeous blonde women.

    Though Newman's character's heart will always belong to the heroic Jewish gal he once loved. She of course died in battle, so they have a statue to her at the kibbutz. But a guy has to move on, and it's not like there's mating material in the kibbutz among the dumpy and dark Jewish gals.

    Haworth's character Karin is a "Danish Jew" "refugee"; in the novel iirc her character was a German Jew. In the movie she is presented as an avatar of the Sixties generation of Bright Young Zionists...

    ...along with her love interest character, the swarthy femmey Dov, played by Haworth's later real-life squeeze Sal Mineo. His character's torment is partly that he's a Jew, and you know how bad that is and all...but more that he got handed around as a sex toy. By Nazis of course. At Auschwitz of course. (Not, of course, Hollywood.)

    Karin's character looks and talks like those heavily sexualized Scandinavian shiksas later used widely in 1960s advertising and mass culture to sell stuff or get a laugh against top 2% Northern European women. Like Max Bialystock's secretary. Or the shaving-cream-selling lady who equated men shaving with stripping.

    Now that’s some serious familiarity with mid-to-late twentieth century pop-culture.

    Are you sure you aren’t Mark Steyn?

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    Pretty sure. :D

    Weirdly, I haven't seen this film since the early '90s. But I talked it over at great length with half a dozen different Jewish friends/acquaintances then.

    Young people find it hard to believe, but in the 1970s and 1980s, intelligent Noticing people openly talked things over from the heart and gut. Especially points or whole terrains of disagreement.

    This movie struck a chord with most Jews I knew out east and in the Midwest, so it was an interesting conversational lightning rod. Especially as Paul Newman became more attached to the organic farming movement in the '90s. Most Boomer Jews I met in "urban agriculture" circles had seen the movie and had strong feelings about it.

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  80. One can only hope Larry David brings this to the small screen.

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  81. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Emblematic
    The appearance of the state of Israel fits your requirements. A miraculous rebirth transmutating ultimate catastrophe into inviolable right.

    No, Israel has become too divisive, esp with mess in West Bank and Gaza.

    Anti-Zionist passions run high, even in EU… and is catching even in some parts of US.

    So, Holorection can’t be specific to a nation. It has to be about a general feeling of miraculous rebirth from the ashes and the ground.

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  82. @Tom Nicholson
    George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter

    The Mr. Potter character couldn't have been more Jewish if he had been wearing a kippa. He was greedy, stingy, conniving, physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure) and physically unattractive. He owned practically everything in town and was ever greedy for more. He looked down at everyone else in town as worthless rabble i.e. goyim. When Clarence allowed George Bailey to see what Bedford Falls would be like without him, Mr Potter owned everything and the town was a den of iniquity. Only boomers could be so blind about Mr. Potter.

    I never saw him as a Jewish-like character. He was too humorless, crusty, and reactionary.

    If anyone in the movie is Jewishy, it’s Sammy Wainright.

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  83. That’s some chutzpah, writing a book like that when you’re married to the director of the National Holocaust Memorial!

    (“Christians are not — I repeat not! — acceptable Holocaust material,” her father wails),

    Weren’t the Nazis inspired by what the Turks did to their ethnic Armenian population? The Armenians, Greeks, and Assyrians were Christians and the Turks were Muslim. That would seem like a relevant detail.

    It would also seem that Gypsies should be able to legitimately claim a piece of the contemporary Holocaust victim paradigm –or at least they could if they were better organized. Being able to easily recall the number of Jewish people killed in the Holocaust has almost become a public expectation. It’s a morally imbued “iconic” fact. And yet I only have a vague sense of the victim totals for the other groups the Nazis killed.

    I’m surprised David Reich is at Harvard. Working at Stanford would have given him that extra measure of plausible deniability for when his parents asked him why he didn’t visit them more often. I’m picturing a more intelligent version of the Costanza family. “And now for the annual airing of grievances!” But maybe his mother just has an ironic sense of humor. No need to overanalyze things…

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  84. @Dave Pinsen
    One of the weirdest parts of Antony Beevor's Stalingrad book was where he quotes Wehrmacht 6th Army officers comparing themselves to the Masada Zealots.

    Was there wide pop-cultural knowledge of Masada in the forties or was this a comparison made by survivors much later?

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    These were contemporaneous comments during the siege. Pretty much everything Beevor quotes is contemporaneous: journals, letters home, reports, etc.
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  85. @Tyrion 2
    Israel has two main founding myths: the Holocaust and Masada. My impression is that Masada is increasing in relative importance just as Hanukah went from a very minor festival to something quite major after the Six-Day war.

    To many Israeli Jews the Holocaust represents the nadir not just of the treatment of Jews but also the moral character of Jews. Separated from their homeland, their soil and purpose, it is seen that the Holocaust victims often went meekly to their own slaughter. 'Never again' is therein taken not to be an embrace of eternal victimhood but an outright rejection of it.

    A story told to me by an IDF veteran and intended as a post hoc preminotory warning of the Holocaust might be summarised as this:

    During the pogroms the Cossacks attacked a Jewish village. The men hid in a cupboard as the Cossacks only came to kill the men. The women were raped in view of the cupboard. The men did nothing.

    The moral being 'Never again'.

    Other reasons for the emphasizing of Masada include that most young Israelis are only part Ashkenazi and Masada applies to all Jews. Also, that it obviously took place in Israel.

    Of course the story is somewhat the other way around for many diaspora Jews. Many of whom don't know Masada while the eternal victimhood narrative of the Holocaust is more present-day. It also fits far better into what the contemporary West values.

    Personally, I find an overemphasis on founding myths to be unnecessary, but perhaps that is a sort of reverse Dunning-Kruger effect of the type Charles Murray identifies when he argues that the elite no longer preaches what it practices. However if one is to be picked I prefer the one that steals valour rather than steals misery. I get that the Holocaust was a current event for those nearing the end of their lives but for younger generations a focus on it feels maudlin and ennervating. I suspect that it will fade away in fits and bursts as the next couple of generations pass while Masada will remain.

    Your analysis rings true in terms of how myths work but I am unaware of anyone imprisoned, hounded out of work, physically attacked and threatened with death for impugning the midcentury repopularization of the Masada story.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    If you had lost your entire family as a child and then grew up to a bunch of useless freaks on the internet telling you that it had never happened, you would also probabaly bequeath what wealth you had created to fund organisations to shut them up.

    Indeed, if, on the other side, your family had actually perpetrated such crimes you might also do the same thing and for the same reasons.

    Do you have any empathy at all?
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  86. @Olorin

    The book is far more than the story of a couple of boobs trying to run a museum. It is, rather, a much grander indictment, an indictment of an entire universe of groups — Catholic, Mormon, German, Polish, Japanese, African American, Native American, Palestinian, feminist and more — all looking to claim their own little slice of Holocaust victimhood.
     
    In my experience of reading it both in English and Yiddish, Forverts often can be honest where others aren't. In this quote it is admitted:

    "Holocaust victimhood" is real estate, and Jews control it.

    As an INDICTMENT of others, of course. The rent-seeking/-charging is just reparations.

    Ir kent leynen Yiddish? (Can you read in Yiddish?)

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    Out of practice now with the script, though still do OK with passages of transliterated Yiddish, it being so heavily Germanic.

    When I studied it formally, reading Forverts was my specific goal. One of my teachers and I used to compare the stories/angles in the ייִדיש and English versions.

    I never had an ear for it however. Which is true for me in most languages, even my native English.

    Dank ir far asking
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  87. @Tyrion 2

    The premise of that novel actually sounds pretty good. If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.
     
    Since the absolutely wonderful Cynthia Ozick describes it as “a ferocious work of serious satiric genius,” my first thought is whether any "Alt Right publishing house" has ever published any fiction that might even approach this novel in quality?

    I suspect not, but I am very open to suggestions.

    Also, this Tova sounds like an awesome girl. She wrote a great, smart and funny book solely to defend her husband and burn his enemies. What a wife!

    my first thought is whether any “Alt Right publishing house” has ever published any fiction that might even approach this novel in quality?

    This is sick, this is more mentally ill than me talking about my Abigail Shapiro pillow. A fictitious and undefined straw man, that has existed (or been attested) for about a year, and which is the target of establishment-approved physical violence when identified in public, is discredited by its inability to keep pace with a centennial publishing monopoly? Pace yourself, we’re coming up on some windmills.
    But I guarantee you the weakest 4chan comment is better in quality than the lazy, illiterate, and clumsy Aharon Appelfeld, better written than “the Sugar-Coated Scrotum,” less silly than Herman Wouk, more honest than Leon Uris, and funnier than almost all Hebraic comedy professionals, so that’s a start.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    This is sick, this is more mentally ill than me talking about my Abigail Shapiro pillow. Blah blah blah
     
    No, go through the thread to see the context ding dong.

    I was stating what my first thought was upon reading his comment.

    His comment was:

    The premise of that novel actually sounds pretty good. If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.

    So obviously since Tova Reich's book is meant to be pretty good according to a great writer I wondered if an 'Alt Right publishing house' had ever published anything in the same league.

    What is wrong with you?
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  88. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:
    @gunner29

    the band were never filmed by the one filmmaker who really understood that kind of crowd reaction, namely, Leni Riefenstahl.
     
    BUT she did photograph Jagger's wedding to Bianca! Look it up.

    Teh holocaust must support a large percentage of Zyds these days.

    I read a lot of military history, section 940.xxx in the libary. The commie libarians only buy a couple of 940 books a year and at least one will be about Teh holocaust.

    If you want to see commies in action, check out the ALA, american Libary association. The only groups to the left of them are Castroites is Cuba and Jung Ilites in Nork....

    Quite right, Riefenstahl worked as a still photographer and as a documentary filmmaker after WWII (she was still working at 100) but was never allowed to make a theatrical release after that. Jagger knew her fairly well, I am sure he’d had the thought of her filming the Stones cross his mind, and I’m equally sure he was dissuaded from this.

    I doubt that she would have brought much to seeing the band itself perform, but the crowd reaction, that is another thing entirely. Among rock and roll band frontpersons, Mick Jagger is in a class by himself in terms of getting the crowd to pay attention to him. After him there are a couple dozen men and maybe three or four women, but none with his level of command. A Stones gig is pretty much unique in the level of crowd dynamic uniformity that you see, or at least, in the one I saw, and from the descriptions of others who’ve seen them tens of times and hundreds of other shows as well. (I have pretty well quit attending concerts, as the money involved has become insane. Things may be different now or in the very recent past.)

    James Brown and (fundie preacher) Jimmy Swaggart are also noteworthy, but that isn’t quite ‘fronting a rock and roll band’.

    As far as librarians go, it is impossible to get a job with any level of control at all at any library above one in a <5000 population community without holding the Masters of Library Science degree. My dealings with MLS holders have convinced me in every single instance, without fail, that they are universally leftist and universally stupid to boot. I have had dealings with dozens and every one so far has shown herself or himself to be low IQ, low energy, and thoroughly inculcated in a culture that is essentially Cultural Marxist.

    Most libraries have been purged of any really useful books, therefore, besides basic DIY stuff and even that is getting rarer.

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  89. @J.Ross
    Was there wide pop-cultural knowledge of Masada in the forties or was this a comparison made by survivors much later?

    These were contemporaneous comments during the siege. Pretty much everything Beevor quotes is contemporaneous: journals, letters home, reports, etc.

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  90. @Tom Nicholson
    George Bailey Schindler saving Jews of Bedford Falls from Nazi Potter

    The Mr. Potter character couldn't have been more Jewish if he had been wearing a kippa. He was greedy, stingy, conniving, physically deformed (FDR wheelchair for good measure) and physically unattractive. He owned practically everything in town and was ever greedy for more. He looked down at everyone else in town as worthless rabble i.e. goyim. When Clarence allowed George Bailey to see what Bedford Falls would be like without him, Mr Potter owned everything and the town was a den of iniquity. Only boomers could be so blind about Mr. Potter.

    Physical deformity is a characteristic Jewish trait?

    During the housing crash, Ross Douthat wrote that it was basically Baileyism that brought it about:

    If the global economy survives the autumn and our cable-TV companies are still in business come Christmas, Americans surfing the channels for classic Yuletide movies may finally figure out exactly whom they have to blame for the housing bubble and everything that has followed. Forget the predatory lenders, Wall Street sharks and their government enablers: It all started with George Bailey.

    Yes, that George Bailey — the hero of Frank Capra’s “It’s a Wonderful Life,” the most popular man in Bedford Falls, the man so indispensable that he earned a private visitation from a guardian angel just to show him how dreadful a world without him would have been. It’s easy to forget, so potent is the supernaturally charged final act of Capra’s classic, that before he was visiting looking-glass worlds where he’d never been born or scampering through the snow and shouting “Merry Christmas!” till his lungs burst, Jimmy Stewart’s George Bailey was actually a pretty savvy businessman. And it’s even easier to forget the precise nature of his business: putting the downscale families of Bedford Falls into homes they couldn’t quite afford to buy.

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  91. Re: Steve Sailer’s claim “Vienna had more famous Jews than Poland”

    Steve, you never heard of Ben-Gurion, Menachen Begin, Bernie Sanders
    or Netanyahu? They are all Polish Jews, and I think they would qualify
    as famous. But seriously, for a country that didn’t exist for almost 200
    years (except for the brief interwar period) Poland produced quite
    a few famous Jews, definitely more than Vienna.

    Nobel Prize winners: Isaac Bashevis Singer, Leonid Hurwicz,
    Jerzy Charpak, Roald Hoffmann, Albert Michelson (father Jewish,
    mother Polish Catholic), Isidor Rabi, Tadeus Reichstein, Józef Rotblat

    Other STEM people: Mark Kac, Mandelbrot (fractals), Stanisław Ulam
    (H bomb), Leopold Infeld (Einstein’s collaborator), Albert Sabin;
    Zygmunt Bauman (sociology)

    Politicians: Ben-Gurion, Menachen Begin (in Polish: Mieczysław Biegun),
    Yitzhak Shamir, Shimon Peres, Bernie Sanders, Netanyahu (father born
    in Warsaw as Mileikowski)

    Writers: Bruno Schulz, Brzechwa, Tuwim, Korczak (last 3: children’s
    literature well known in Poland), Jerzy Kosinski

    Musicians: Arthur Rubinstein, Wladyslaw Szpilman

    Film: Aleksander Ford, Jerzy Hoffman, Polański, Samuel
    Goldwyn, Warner Bros.

    Others: Zamenhof (creator of Esperanto), Meyer Lansky (in Polish:
    Suchowiński).

    You were probably thinking of Freud and Mahler. But they weren’t Viennese.
    Freud was born in Pribor (today’s Czechia, near Slovakian border) and
    Mahler in Jihlava (also in Czechia).

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This is pilpul. Viennese Jews got famous in Vienna as a function of a more welcoming society. Polish Jews generally hid or emigrated and became famous somewhere else. What's wrong with calling Ben Gurion or Begin "Polish Jews" is self-explanatory. The Jews who conceived of and built Hollywood were all from the same small rural Polish area, but they didn't built Hollywood there now did they?
    >and Polish Jews who became famous after the national restoration
    I'm not going to tell you why this doesn't square with fin-de-siècle Imperial Vienna.
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  92. @Anon 2
    Re: Steve Sailer's claim "Vienna had more famous Jews than Poland"

    Steve, you never heard of Ben-Gurion, Menachen Begin, Bernie Sanders
    or Netanyahu? They are all Polish Jews, and I think they would qualify
    as famous. But seriously, for a country that didn't exist for almost 200
    years (except for the brief interwar period) Poland produced quite
    a few famous Jews, definitely more than Vienna.

    Nobel Prize winners: Isaac Bashevis Singer, Leonid Hurwicz,
    Jerzy Charpak, Roald Hoffmann, Albert Michelson (father Jewish,
    mother Polish Catholic), Isidor Rabi, Tadeus Reichstein, Józef Rotblat

    Other STEM people: Mark Kac, Mandelbrot (fractals), Stanisław Ulam
    (H bomb), Leopold Infeld (Einstein's collaborator), Albert Sabin;
    Zygmunt Bauman (sociology)

    Politicians: Ben-Gurion, Menachen Begin (in Polish: Mieczysław Biegun),
    Yitzhak Shamir, Shimon Peres, Bernie Sanders, Netanyahu (father born
    in Warsaw as Mileikowski)

    Writers: Bruno Schulz, Brzechwa, Tuwim, Korczak (last 3: children's
    literature well known in Poland), Jerzy Kosinski

    Musicians: Arthur Rubinstein, Wladyslaw Szpilman

    Film: Aleksander Ford, Jerzy Hoffman, Polański, Samuel
    Goldwyn, Warner Bros.

    Others: Zamenhof (creator of Esperanto), Meyer Lansky (in Polish:
    Suchowiński).

    You were probably thinking of Freud and Mahler. But they weren't Viennese.
    Freud was born in Pribor (today's Czechia, near Slovakian border) and
    Mahler in Jihlava (also in Czechia).

    This is pilpul. Viennese Jews got famous in Vienna as a function of a more welcoming society. Polish Jews generally hid or emigrated and became famous somewhere else. What’s wrong with calling Ben Gurion or Begin “Polish Jews” is self-explanatory. The Jews who conceived of and built Hollywood were all from the same small rural Polish area, but they didn’t built Hollywood there now did they?
    >and Polish Jews who became famous after the national restoration
    I’m not going to tell you why this doesn’t square with fin-de-siècle Imperial Vienna.

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    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Austria more welcoming to the Jews? Why, you never
    heard of Hitler and where he came from?

    The point is that the Jews were expelled from Western Europe,
    incl. the German speaking lands like the future Austria and
    Prussia, and STAYED expelled. In the 1930s the percentage
    of Jews in Germany was only 0.8%, in the Soviet Union also
    under 1%, in Austria 4%, while in Poland close to 10%, and
    higher in the late 1930s as the Jews were escaping from Germany
    and Russia to Poland. The main reason it was a bit higher
    in Austria was because during the Partitions Austria stole
    Galicia from Poland, and the Galician Jews immediately made
    a beeline for Vienna. Obviously you can accomplish more in
    a rich country like Austria than in a poor country like 19th
    century Poland (which didn't even exist), not because it is more
    welcoming but because it's rich. To be welcoming you logically
    need to exist, don't you think, and Poland, unlike Austria, ceased
    to exist for almost 200 years.

    The Jews were deluded into thinking that just because Austria
    was rich, it was also more civilized and therefore more
    welcoming to the Jews. How did that work out? You never heard
    of the Holocaust? In Poland, for example, 3 million Jews and 3
    million Christians were killed during WW II, in retrospect for
    no reason at all. Death played no favorites. So much for highly
    civilized Germans.

    The Jews living in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealh could
    have learned a lot from the Slavs whose territory they inhabited.
    They would have learned that you cannot trust the Germanics,
    that the Germanics are violent war-like people. Even the Romans
    noticed that. But the Jews were too narcissistic to learn from the
    Slavs, and paid a severe price. And now Western Europe is returning
    to its usual violent antisemitism, and the Jews are too blind to
    notice. I recommend you read Martin Luther's treatise "On the Jews
    and their lies" to understand the roots of Germanic antisemitism.
    You obviously never lived in Central Europe and lack first-hand
    experience of the region.
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  93. @J.Ross
    Your analysis rings true in terms of how myths work but I am unaware of anyone imprisoned, hounded out of work, physically attacked and threatened with death for impugning the midcentury repopularization of the Masada story.

    If you had lost your entire family as a child and then grew up to a bunch of useless freaks on the internet telling you that it had never happened, you would also probabaly bequeath what wealth you had created to fund organisations to shut them up.

    Indeed, if, on the other side, your family had actually perpetrated such crimes you might also do the same thing and for the same reasons.

    Do you have any empathy at all?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Are there or are there not laws regarding Holocaust history?
    Are there comparable laws regarding Masada? (Maybe there are, I've never heard of them.)
    You made a reasonable prediction about the future public perceptions of historical tragedies. It's reasonable up to a point. The problem which you have not addressed is that no story is going anywhere if it is guaranteed by government action. This is one of many reasons why government should not certify history or anything else outside its natural mandate. Believing that a government has a natural mandate which it should autistically stick to is not Holocaust denial, it is the necessary foundational ideological creed of anyone who wants to call himself an American.
    >Empathy
    Okay. Maybe one day you'll know what that word means. It doesn't mean submission or tribal loyalty. I stopped worrying over Jack D a while back when he mentioned his dad. You'll never guess what happened after that, it's very empathetic. I stumbled across him talking about how various victims have not really suffered and should shut up.
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  94. @J.Ross
    Never as amusing as Jewish self-appointed experts on all things. But there is a way out: you could stop telling us what MUST be DONE every ten seconds.

    *I* never told you to do anything.

    *I* am not responsible for actions taken by others.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Ah, something tells me I'm not allowed to use the same defense.
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  95. @Tyrion 2
    If you had lost your entire family as a child and then grew up to a bunch of useless freaks on the internet telling you that it had never happened, you would also probabaly bequeath what wealth you had created to fund organisations to shut them up.

    Indeed, if, on the other side, your family had actually perpetrated such crimes you might also do the same thing and for the same reasons.

    Do you have any empathy at all?

    Are there or are there not laws regarding Holocaust history?
    Are there comparable laws regarding Masada? (Maybe there are, I’ve never heard of them.)
    You made a reasonable prediction about the future public perceptions of historical tragedies. It’s reasonable up to a point. The problem which you have not addressed is that no story is going anywhere if it is guaranteed by government action. This is one of many reasons why government should not certify history or anything else outside its natural mandate. Believing that a government has a natural mandate which it should autistically stick to is not Holocaust denial, it is the necessary foundational ideological creed of anyone who wants to call himself an American.
    >Empathy
    Okay. Maybe one day you’ll know what that word means. It doesn’t mean submission or tribal loyalty. I stopped worrying over Jack D a while back when he mentioned his dad. You’ll never guess what happened after that, it’s very empathetic. I stumbled across him talking about how various victims have not really suffered and should shut up.

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  96. @Jimi Shmendrix
    *I* never told you to do anything.

    *I* am not responsible for actions taken by others.

    Ah, something tells me I’m not allowed to use the same defense.

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  97. @Dave Pinsen
    Why did you put "Danish Jew" and "refugee" in scare quotes?

    It makes sense that Haworth's character is essentially a Jewish shiksa -- the idea is for non Jews to identify with her.

    It's been a while since I saw the movie, but I don't recall a lot of "dumpy" women in the kibbutz. Hollywood tended to cast attractive women in movies back then.

    They weren’t scare quotes, c’mon.

    I explained the “Danish Jew”–in the novel the Karin character was a German Jew, but for some reason Otto Preminger changed that.

    “Refugee” is in quotes because to my knowledge Denmark wasn’t doing anything to its Jews but protecting them. Deciding to leave a country for your own reasons then declaring yourself a refugee is a tactic that we should be able to see through In The Current Year.

    Dumpy might be the wrong word, but thick and hirsute is how I remember the chicks out in the courtyard working out with guns or whatever. Admittedly I last saw this movie in the 1990s, so all I retain is the strong impression that the Jewish kibbutz ladies were no Eva Marie Saints…and I seem to recall that in the Leon Uris novel he went out of his way to describe her character an Aryan goddess nurse from the American Germanic heartland.

    It makes sense that Haworth’s character is essentially a Jewish shiksa — the idea is for non Jews to identify with her.

    You can say the same thing about the white women in race mixing propaganda today. If it “makes sense,” it’s not to me.

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  98. @J.Ross
    This is pilpul. Viennese Jews got famous in Vienna as a function of a more welcoming society. Polish Jews generally hid or emigrated and became famous somewhere else. What's wrong with calling Ben Gurion or Begin "Polish Jews" is self-explanatory. The Jews who conceived of and built Hollywood were all from the same small rural Polish area, but they didn't built Hollywood there now did they?
    >and Polish Jews who became famous after the national restoration
    I'm not going to tell you why this doesn't square with fin-de-siècle Imperial Vienna.

    Austria more welcoming to the Jews? Why, you never
    heard of Hitler and where he came from?

    The point is that the Jews were expelled from Western Europe,
    incl. the German speaking lands like the future Austria and
    Prussia, and STAYED expelled. In the 1930s the percentage
    of Jews in Germany was only 0.8%, in the Soviet Union also
    under 1%, in Austria 4%, while in Poland close to 10%, and
    higher in the late 1930s as the Jews were escaping from Germany
    and Russia to Poland. The main reason it was a bit higher
    in Austria was because during the Partitions Austria stole
    Galicia from Poland, and the Galician Jews immediately made
    a beeline for Vienna. Obviously you can accomplish more in
    a rich country like Austria than in a poor country like 19th
    century Poland (which didn’t even exist), not because it is more
    welcoming but because it’s rich. To be welcoming you logically
    need to exist, don’t you think, and Poland, unlike Austria, ceased
    to exist for almost 200 years.

    The Jews were deluded into thinking that just because Austria
    was rich, it was also more civilized and therefore more
    welcoming to the Jews. How did that work out? You never heard
    of the Holocaust? In Poland, for example, 3 million Jews and 3
    million Christians were killed during WW II, in retrospect for
    no reason at all. Death played no favorites. So much for highly
    civilized Germans.

    The Jews living in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealh could
    have learned a lot from the Slavs whose territory they inhabited.
    They would have learned that you cannot trust the Germanics,
    that the Germanics are violent war-like people. Even the Romans
    noticed that. But the Jews were too narcissistic to learn from the
    Slavs, and paid a severe price. And now Western Europe is returning
    to its usual violent antisemitism, and the Jews are too blind to
    notice. I recommend you read Martin Luther’s treatise “On the Jews
    and their lies” to understand the roots of Germanic antisemitism.
    You obviously never lived in Central Europe and lack first-hand
    experience of the region.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    In your first paragraph you moved backwards and forwards across completely different circumstances and time periods often enough that I stopped reading.
    >because Hitler was born in Austria, that means the Austro-Hungarian Emperors never made multiculturalism a priority
    The point I was replying to seemed to be replying to an accusation that Polish jews did not exist or accomplished nothing, which was put forward by nobody. The original point was that there was a different attitude towards Jewish accomplishment in different parts of Eastern Europe, which partly explains different levels of achievement. That point's not getting refuted, least of all by something about the nineteen thirties.
    >Vienna was rich
    And the Tsar of All the Russias, he ate hamburger helper?
    , @Hibernian
    Poland continued to exist after the partition. Its government no longer existed. Being Polish and Irish, I can relate to that.
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  99. @Vinteuil
    Now that's some serious familiarity with mid-to-late twentieth century pop-culture.

    Are you sure you aren't Mark Steyn?

    Pretty sure. :D

    Weirdly, I haven’t seen this film since the early ’90s. But I talked it over at great length with half a dozen different Jewish friends/acquaintances then.

    Young people find it hard to believe, but in the 1970s and 1980s, intelligent Noticing people openly talked things over from the heart and gut. Especially points or whole terrains of disagreement.

    This movie struck a chord with most Jews I knew out east and in the Midwest, so it was an interesting conversational lightning rod. Especially as Paul Newman became more attached to the organic farming movement in the ’90s. Most Boomer Jews I met in “urban agriculture” circles had seen the movie and had strong feelings about it.

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  100. @Old Jew
    Ir kent leynen Yiddish? (Can you read in Yiddish?)

    Out of practice now with the script, though still do OK with passages of transliterated Yiddish, it being so heavily Germanic.

    When I studied it formally, reading Forverts was my specific goal. One of my teachers and I used to compare the stories/angles in the ייִדיש and English versions.

    I never had an ear for it however. Which is true for me in most languages, even my native English.

    Dank ir far asking

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  101. @Anon 2
    Austria more welcoming to the Jews? Why, you never
    heard of Hitler and where he came from?

    The point is that the Jews were expelled from Western Europe,
    incl. the German speaking lands like the future Austria and
    Prussia, and STAYED expelled. In the 1930s the percentage
    of Jews in Germany was only 0.8%, in the Soviet Union also
    under 1%, in Austria 4%, while in Poland close to 10%, and
    higher in the late 1930s as the Jews were escaping from Germany
    and Russia to Poland. The main reason it was a bit higher
    in Austria was because during the Partitions Austria stole
    Galicia from Poland, and the Galician Jews immediately made
    a beeline for Vienna. Obviously you can accomplish more in
    a rich country like Austria than in a poor country like 19th
    century Poland (which didn't even exist), not because it is more
    welcoming but because it's rich. To be welcoming you logically
    need to exist, don't you think, and Poland, unlike Austria, ceased
    to exist for almost 200 years.

    The Jews were deluded into thinking that just because Austria
    was rich, it was also more civilized and therefore more
    welcoming to the Jews. How did that work out? You never heard
    of the Holocaust? In Poland, for example, 3 million Jews and 3
    million Christians were killed during WW II, in retrospect for
    no reason at all. Death played no favorites. So much for highly
    civilized Germans.

    The Jews living in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealh could
    have learned a lot from the Slavs whose territory they inhabited.
    They would have learned that you cannot trust the Germanics,
    that the Germanics are violent war-like people. Even the Romans
    noticed that. But the Jews were too narcissistic to learn from the
    Slavs, and paid a severe price. And now Western Europe is returning
    to its usual violent antisemitism, and the Jews are too blind to
    notice. I recommend you read Martin Luther's treatise "On the Jews
    and their lies" to understand the roots of Germanic antisemitism.
    You obviously never lived in Central Europe and lack first-hand
    experience of the region.

    In your first paragraph you moved backwards and forwards across completely different circumstances and time periods often enough that I stopped reading.
    >because Hitler was born in Austria, that means the Austro-Hungarian Emperors never made multiculturalism a priority
    The point I was replying to seemed to be replying to an accusation that Polish jews did not exist or accomplished nothing, which was put forward by nobody. The original point was that there was a different attitude towards Jewish accomplishment in different parts of Eastern Europe, which partly explains different levels of achievement. That point’s not getting refuted, least of all by something about the nineteen thirties.
    >Vienna was rich
    And the Tsar of All the Russias, he ate hamburger helper?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Many people are nostalgic about fin de siècle Vienna. Even I have a weakness
    for that period in Central Europe (although I prefer La Belle Époque Paris), and
    that's why I champion the Catholic bloc of countries in Central Europe
    (essentially V4 + Austria), and don't have the highest opinion of either
    Western Europe (colonialism and slave trade) or Eastern Europe (Russia
    and Ukraine, with their history of despotism and lawlessness). The Catholicism
    of the Hapsburgs restrained their less than civilized impulses.
    Still the Hapsburg empire was unstable because it crushed the national
    aspirations of their many minorities, and finally collapsed under its own
    weight, just like the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth collapsed partly
    for the same reasons a century and a half earlier. Both entities had too many
    minorities. And now we see the same thing happening in the U.S. -
    America is falling apart under the weight of its extreme multiculturalism.
    We never learn.

    It wasn't just Jews who left the Polish lands and achieved success
    elsewhere (although many stayed - Zamenhof, Tuwim, Brzechwa,
    Bauman, Infeld, Kott, Szpilman, Ford, Hoffman, and many more
    whose names are unfamiliar to American readers). Poland didn't
    exist so people like Joseph Conrad (Korzeniowski), Maria Skłodowska
    (Curie), Bronisław Malinowski, Frederick Chopin, Adam Mickiewicz, etc
    left and achieved much of their success abroad.

    I mentioned WW II because that showed how deluded the Jews were
    when they thought they were welcome in Western Europe. They were
    expelled centuries ago, and never welcomed again, except in tiny numbers,
    as in the Netherlands. Do you think that any country in Western Europe
    would tolerate becoming 8-10% Jewish like Poland was for much of its
    history? Even the U.S. is only 2% Jewish, which is nothing. Think how
    welcoming America would be if it had 32 million Jews, like Poland
    did percentagewise only a few decades ago.

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  102. @Dave Pinsen
    Another movie in this small Holocaust -> Israel/resurrection genre was Cast A Giant Shadow, in which John Wayne talks Kirk Douglas into fighting for Israel. Hollywood doesn't make movies like this anymore.

    https://youtu.be/KIUVbQEaB0E?t=3m10s

    I saw that scene, though probably not the whole movie, on TV as a kid. I remember also the scene where Wayne threatens Douglas with court martial for insubordination when they liberated the camps and Douglas very emotionally demanded that they devote all their energies to the prisoners. This scene of course references that scene as well as the earlier one, which I don’t remember and probably didn’t see, over Normandy.

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  103. @Anon 2
    Austria more welcoming to the Jews? Why, you never
    heard of Hitler and where he came from?

    The point is that the Jews were expelled from Western Europe,
    incl. the German speaking lands like the future Austria and
    Prussia, and STAYED expelled. In the 1930s the percentage
    of Jews in Germany was only 0.8%, in the Soviet Union also
    under 1%, in Austria 4%, while in Poland close to 10%, and
    higher in the late 1930s as the Jews were escaping from Germany
    and Russia to Poland. The main reason it was a bit higher
    in Austria was because during the Partitions Austria stole
    Galicia from Poland, and the Galician Jews immediately made
    a beeline for Vienna. Obviously you can accomplish more in
    a rich country like Austria than in a poor country like 19th
    century Poland (which didn't even exist), not because it is more
    welcoming but because it's rich. To be welcoming you logically
    need to exist, don't you think, and Poland, unlike Austria, ceased
    to exist for almost 200 years.

    The Jews were deluded into thinking that just because Austria
    was rich, it was also more civilized and therefore more
    welcoming to the Jews. How did that work out? You never heard
    of the Holocaust? In Poland, for example, 3 million Jews and 3
    million Christians were killed during WW II, in retrospect for
    no reason at all. Death played no favorites. So much for highly
    civilized Germans.

    The Jews living in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealh could
    have learned a lot from the Slavs whose territory they inhabited.
    They would have learned that you cannot trust the Germanics,
    that the Germanics are violent war-like people. Even the Romans
    noticed that. But the Jews were too narcissistic to learn from the
    Slavs, and paid a severe price. And now Western Europe is returning
    to its usual violent antisemitism, and the Jews are too blind to
    notice. I recommend you read Martin Luther's treatise "On the Jews
    and their lies" to understand the roots of Germanic antisemitism.
    You obviously never lived in Central Europe and lack first-hand
    experience of the region.

    Poland continued to exist after the partition. Its government no longer existed. Being Polish and Irish, I can relate to that.

    Read More
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  104. @J.Ross
    In your first paragraph you moved backwards and forwards across completely different circumstances and time periods often enough that I stopped reading.
    >because Hitler was born in Austria, that means the Austro-Hungarian Emperors never made multiculturalism a priority
    The point I was replying to seemed to be replying to an accusation that Polish jews did not exist or accomplished nothing, which was put forward by nobody. The original point was that there was a different attitude towards Jewish accomplishment in different parts of Eastern Europe, which partly explains different levels of achievement. That point's not getting refuted, least of all by something about the nineteen thirties.
    >Vienna was rich
    And the Tsar of All the Russias, he ate hamburger helper?

    Many people are nostalgic about fin de siècle Vienna. Even I have a weakness
    for that period in Central Europe (although I prefer La Belle Époque Paris), and
    that’s why I champion the Catholic bloc of countries in Central Europe
    (essentially V4 + Austria), and don’t have the highest opinion of either
    Western Europe (colonialism and slave trade) or Eastern Europe (Russia
    and Ukraine, with their history of despotism and lawlessness). The Catholicism
    of the Hapsburgs restrained their less than civilized impulses.
    Still the Hapsburg empire was unstable because it crushed the national
    aspirations of their many minorities, and finally collapsed under its own
    weight, just like the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth collapsed partly
    for the same reasons a century and a half earlier. Both entities had too many
    minorities. And now we see the same thing happening in the U.S. –
    America is falling apart under the weight of its extreme multiculturalism.
    We never learn.

    It wasn’t just Jews who left the Polish lands and achieved success
    elsewhere (although many stayed – Zamenhof, Tuwim, Brzechwa,
    Bauman, Infeld, Kott, Szpilman, Ford, Hoffman, and many more
    whose names are unfamiliar to American readers). Poland didn’t
    exist so people like Joseph Conrad (Korzeniowski), Maria Skłodowska
    (Curie), Bronisław Malinowski, Frederick Chopin, Adam Mickiewicz, etc
    left and achieved much of their success abroad.

    I mentioned WW II because that showed how deluded the Jews were
    when they thought they were welcome in Western Europe. They were
    expelled centuries ago, and never welcomed again, except in tiny numbers,
    as in the Netherlands. Do you think that any country in Western Europe
    would tolerate becoming 8-10% Jewish like Poland was for much of its
    history? Even the U.S. is only 2% Jewish, which is nothing. Think how
    welcoming America would be if it had 32 million Jews, like Poland
    did percentagewise only a few decades ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So there's a certain threshold.
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  105. @Anon 2
    Many people are nostalgic about fin de siècle Vienna. Even I have a weakness
    for that period in Central Europe (although I prefer La Belle Époque Paris), and
    that's why I champion the Catholic bloc of countries in Central Europe
    (essentially V4 + Austria), and don't have the highest opinion of either
    Western Europe (colonialism and slave trade) or Eastern Europe (Russia
    and Ukraine, with their history of despotism and lawlessness). The Catholicism
    of the Hapsburgs restrained their less than civilized impulses.
    Still the Hapsburg empire was unstable because it crushed the national
    aspirations of their many minorities, and finally collapsed under its own
    weight, just like the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth collapsed partly
    for the same reasons a century and a half earlier. Both entities had too many
    minorities. And now we see the same thing happening in the U.S. -
    America is falling apart under the weight of its extreme multiculturalism.
    We never learn.

    It wasn't just Jews who left the Polish lands and achieved success
    elsewhere (although many stayed - Zamenhof, Tuwim, Brzechwa,
    Bauman, Infeld, Kott, Szpilman, Ford, Hoffman, and many more
    whose names are unfamiliar to American readers). Poland didn't
    exist so people like Joseph Conrad (Korzeniowski), Maria Skłodowska
    (Curie), Bronisław Malinowski, Frederick Chopin, Adam Mickiewicz, etc
    left and achieved much of their success abroad.

    I mentioned WW II because that showed how deluded the Jews were
    when they thought they were welcome in Western Europe. They were
    expelled centuries ago, and never welcomed again, except in tiny numbers,
    as in the Netherlands. Do you think that any country in Western Europe
    would tolerate becoming 8-10% Jewish like Poland was for much of its
    history? Even the U.S. is only 2% Jewish, which is nothing. Think how
    welcoming America would be if it had 32 million Jews, like Poland
    did percentagewise only a few decades ago.

    So there’s a certain threshold.

    Read More
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  106. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Holocaust as Hallmark card.

    You can sell anything. If something is made sacred, even fraud in its name is deemed a kind of noble lie.

    The Catholic Church understood this. In the modern era, it knew very well that ‘miracles’ never really happened. They knew some of them were downright faked, like tears flowing eye of Madonna statue. But the Church tolerated those frauds because they were seen as energizing the faithful.

    This is also why ‘hate hoaxes’ are also tolerated and borderline encouraged. Though bogus, they are in the service of the holy three: Jews, Homos, or blacks. So, even if false, it raised ‘spiritual’ awareness!!
    They are like Hate Miracles. Just pretend to believe the KKK committed some vandalism… like the Church once virtually encouraged fake miracles just to keep the flock enthralled in the faith.

    More nuttery:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/depauw-descends-into-race-madness/

    Read More
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  107. @J.Ross
    my first thought is whether any “Alt Right publishing house” has ever published any fiction that might even approach this novel in quality?

    This is sick, this is more mentally ill than me talking about my Abigail Shapiro pillow. A fictitious and undefined straw man, that has existed (or been attested) for about a year, and which is the target of establishment-approved physical violence when identified in public, is discredited by its inability to keep pace with a centennial publishing monopoly? Pace yourself, we're coming up on some windmills.
    But I guarantee you the weakest 4chan comment is better in quality than the lazy, illiterate, and clumsy Aharon Appelfeld, better written than "the Sugar-Coated Scrotum," less silly than Herman Wouk, more honest than Leon Uris, and funnier than almost all Hebraic comedy professionals, so that's a start.

    This is sick, this is more mentally ill than me talking about my Abigail Shapiro pillow. Blah blah blah

    No, go through the thread to see the context ding dong.

    I was stating what my first thought was upon reading his comment.

    His comment was:

    The premise of that novel actually sounds pretty good. If I didn’t know any better, I’d have thought it was something from an Alt Right publishing house.

    So obviously since Tova Reich’s book is meant to be pretty good according to a great writer I wondered if an ‘Alt Right publishing house’ had ever published anything in the same league.

    What is wrong with you?

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