The Unz Review - Mobile

The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection

A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 iSteve Blog
My Depressing Peyton Manning-style Prediction

Email This Page to Someone


 Remember My Information



=>

Last winter, I made the depressing prediction that, after a great season, 37-year-old Denver quarterback Peyton Manning was more likely to regress toward the mean in the Super Bowl than step it up for a victory.

With the San Antonio Spurs taking a 1-0 lead in the NBA finals over LeBron James’ Miami Heat, it’s perfectly reasonable to get excited about the chances of the grand old man of the NBA, 38-year-old Tim Duncan, capping his admirable career (16 years in the NBA after a full four at Wake Forest to get his degree) with a 5th NBA title. (And that’s not to mention the goodwill elicited by Duncan’s longtime sidekicks 36-year-old Manu Ginobili and 31-year-old Tony Parker.) Here’s my post from a couple of years ago on Duncan, including some Onion jokes about Duncan’s staid West Indian bourgeois respectability.

After all, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was the Finals MVP in 1985 at 38.

But still, unless LeBron proves completely hobbled, I suspect this Finals will ultimately turn out like February’s Super Bowl.

 

32 Comments to "My Depressing Peyton Manning-style Prediction"

Commenters to Ignore
...to Follow
Endorsed Only
[Filtered by Reply Thread]
  1. The Spurs are the better team. They’re deeper and play better together. They’re never out-coached. And they should’ve won last year.

    The Heat also have their own problems with age. Dwyane Wade is 32, but plays much older because of his reckless style of basketball. Chris Bosh is only 30, but seems to be starting the downside of his career earlier than most NBA stars. Both Wade and Bosh disappear for long periods of many games. Ray Allen had a wonderful performance in game 1, but he’s as old as Duncan. Two other important Heat reserves – Shane Battier and Chris Anderson – are only one year younger than Manu Ginobili. Even if the Heat win this year, they will most likely have to start retooling if they want to stay on top.

    It’s possible that LeBron James can win this series for the Heat by himself in the same way Wade single-handedly won the 2006 finals against Dallas. James is good enough to do that. But it will take the kind of performance we haven’t seen yet from him.

    Reply More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  2. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    The Spurs have a deep bench though. So it’s not all about Duncan and Ginobili and Parker.

  3. I agree w/ Steve (though not because of him) and got down on MIA +180 to win the series. They’ll fix that AC in SA, and the Heat will come back and beat the Spurs.

    (caveat: I would prefer the Spurs win, but LEBRON. That is all.)

  4. Huh? What does “regress towards the mean” in this context? Nobody denies that at this point in his career Duncan is a shell of his former self.

  5. Hepp Steve just wanted to brag about his Peyton manning prediction where regression to the mean kind of applied. He does this a whole lot.

  6. “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””And that’s not to mention the goodwill elicited by Duncan’s longtime sidekicks 36-year-old Manu Ginobili and 31-year-old Tony Parker.)”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Parker’s that old? Oh, guess he is. Seems like only yesterday he was briefly married to America’s prominent Hispanic Activist wait, wait, don’t say it…..uh……..Eva Longoria!

    What a difference a few yrs make.

  7. All of these posts about the NBA and how things will turn out remind me of people debating whether The Undertaker will win his next Wrestlemania match.

    Thr nba is the most crooked sports league on the planet!

    Mark Cuban hired a former FBI agent to investigate the nba refs after the 2006 finals when Miami won. He evidently came up with a lot of evidence, and I suspect is the real source of where that nba ref who went to prison for fixing games – and who swore many other refs did it. Not a coincidence that when Dallas reached the finals in 2011, the calls did not automatically and dramatically favor the heat like it had in 2006. As a result, lebron and wade were humiliated by Dirk and Dallas won. I would bet Cuban blackmailed the nba into calling the games fairly or else he would leak info from his investigation.

    Basketball is the easiest sport to fix because the refs have far too much power and things like fouls are subjective.

  8. Dirk Owned LeBron & Wade,

    The nba is the most crooked sports league on the planet!

    So then tell us, genius, who’s going to win and in how many games?

    Cuban would’ve been better off investigating why his team made so many mistakes in that final series after winning the first two games – missed free throws, bungled timeouts, lackluster play, etc.

    The truth is that Wade played like a monster in that series after the first two games. It was an incredible performance by a player who willed his team to victory.

    Cuban’s Mavericks, on the other hand, won 67 games the next season and then proceeded to lose to the 8th-seeded Warriors in the first round of the playoffs. Did Cuban deploy some former G-men to help him solve that mystery?

  9. Ah, Peyton. That was probably the worst Super Bowl ever. I guess he’s hoping to go out on at least a winning season, maybe a playoff game or two, rather than retiring after a lopsided Super Bowl loss.

  10. Fwiw, Tony Parker is a huuuuuuge! fan of Dieudonne Mbala Mbala, he of the arrested nazi salute the quenelle, and has put himself on youtube performing it. So goodwill is relative. Surprised Sterling never brought that up … a serving nba player makes a nazi salute widely viewed in France as aimed at Jews by Blacks. And …

  11. The Heat are, on average, the oldest team in the league, while the Spurs are only the fifth-oldest. Duncan is the same age Kareem was in the mid-80s when he was still making the All-NBA team and winning championships with the Lakers. And the Spurs aren’t nearly as dependent on Duncan as the Broncos are on Manning (or any team is on its quarterback).

    A better argument is that LeBron is the best player in the league and in his prime, and those guys tend to win championships even if the rest of their team is overmatched (as the non-LeBron Heat are).

  12. I noticed you completely avoided any reference to an nba ref being thrown in prison for fixing games! You seriously think he just happened to be the only one? I have seen him interviewed after he got out of prison and he was very clear that all refs understood exactly who the nba wanted to promote and who they wanted calls to favor.

    Yes, it was hard for Wade to not play great on paper when every time he ducked his head down and charged in a whistle was blown. He had 97 free throw shots for God’s sake!!! Are you next going to tell me that Stone Cold always did well in big events because his stone cold stunner was just too tough for Triple H to stop?

    I guess you would rather pretend that whole nba ref going to prison for fixing games never happened though, right?

    As far as the next year, you are aware that the Mavs faced their former coach from a couple years before who has literally built the team and knew all the weaknesses of players like Dirk, right? Same thing happened to the Raiders when they had to play their coach from year before in the 02 Super Bowl.

    Interesingly enough, fallout after the former FBI agent’s investigation was done included:

    1. An nba ref went to prison for fixing games while maintaining it was widespread and league approved
    2. The calls were neutral in 2011 – the Mavs did not get horrible calls against them this time against the Heat, and sissies like Wade – watch him cry and have a wheelchair take him out for a hurt ARM on YouTube – whined that he was not getting the usual calls for closing his eyes and charging in the lane and it screwed up his game. Dirk scored more and had a higher shooting percentage in the 4th quarter than lebron and wade combined did in that series.

    http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/fbi-agent-tim-donaghy-internal-investigation-mitchell-report/228793

    Any interested readers should check out that link, especially the part about the pressure the nba put on the ref to shut up after he was caught.

  13. As far as who will win, the nba clearly wants lebron to win in six or seven games bc they want to make the most money from a longer series and want to build him up as the next Jordan because so many whites have abandoned the WWNBA these days. They can’t, however, count on the side effects of hgh use resulting in cramps and lebron having to leave the game from an AC system going out.

    Vince McMahon is going to need to hit lebron with a chair one day on the court for some people to realize what the nba is, and even that won’t convince some of you.

  14. Amusingly Dirk owned is doing a great job of demonstrating just how right Steve is about the death death of disinterestedness.

  15. Dirk Owned Lebron & Wade,

    I’m a Sacramento King fan, so I’m well aware of who is Tim Donaghy. You’re still making a lot out of very little. A single bent ref who worked the points is not likely to change the outcome of an entire series. Even if you assume he’s just a small part of the problem with NBA refs, Donaghy was looking to enrich himself, not help the league push the most glamorous teams through to the finals and onto the championship podium.

    Yes, it was hard for Wade to not play great on paper when every time he ducked his head down and charged in a whistle was blown. He had 97 free throw shots for God’s sake!!!

    Wade drove the lane like a maniac that entire series and indeed for that entire season. He averaged over 10 trips to the charity strip per game that season. For a shooting guard, that was almost unprecedented. Only Allen Iverson, another maniac when driving the lane, had a higher average that year. Free Throw Attempts Per Game: 2005-06 NBA Season.

    But as Wade has gotten older, he’s been unable to keep up the same ferocious pace. It’s just too hard on his body. He now averages less than half the attempts he once did.

    Perhaps the Mavericks would’ve had more free throws in that series if they hadn’t settled for so many jumpers.

    As far as the next year, you are aware that the Mavs faced their former coach from a couple years before who has literally built the team and knew all the weaknesses of players like Dirk, right?

    They folded like deck chairs. 67 wins and then “Poof !” in the first round.

    Good God, man, if all it takes for an eight-seeded team to beat the number one seed is to get an old coach to stand on the sidelines, then many old coaches would’ve had a lot more gainful employment with so-so teams over the years. Think of what Michael Jordan’s old coach, Doug Collins, could’ve leveraged with his knowledge.

    Well, I suppose the good news is that at least you’re not blaming Tim Donaghy for that one.

  16. In addition to Nelson being the coach for the spurs, the mavs also had “little general” as a coach who can’t be above double digit IQ. He did a horrible job. So yeah, if the guy who built and coached your team is the opposing coach, and your coach is a complete moron who panics and puts people in positions they have never played before – then bad things will happen.

    As far as the nba ref, I am glad you are able to recite the nba version of events – that he was just enriching himself. Even that isn’t technically correct though, as the truth is he got into gambling debt and owed some bookies money. He said that many other nba refs gambled, and that all the nba refs knew their jobs depended on calling games how the nba wanted them called. That included stretching a close series out to six or seven games, and making sure the stars got plenty of calls their way. To actually oppose this is like thinking there is no way the media is trying to push lies about crime and race, and it is just a coincidence at how things pan out with white criminals being promoted non stop and black criminals being downplayed or censored.

    Either way, whether it is the nba refs being influenced by the nba or by their gambling debt – or both – that means they are altering the outcome with calls. One of the easiest ways to do this is calling fouls since those are fairly subjective. Even Jeff van Gundy has said certain refs are biased against certain people with their calls, but what does an nba coach know?

    If you are a Sacramento fan, then I shouldn’t have to convince you of anything. Did you watch the infamous playoff game and call after call going against the kings? Do you honestly think those were just repeated bad calls? Or will you admit that corruption of some sort took place? You may want to dismiss an nba ref being put in prison for fixing games all you want, but the nfl and MLB can’t even make a similar claim currently. The enormous pressure put on him after he states that he wasnt the only ref gambling, and that the nba wanted calls to go certain ways has to be dismissed, too. I happen to think a ref being caught like that is a huge deal, but I guess you don’t.

  17. Dirk Owned Lebron & Wade,

    In addition to Nelson being the coach for the spurs, the mavs also had “little general” as a coach who can’t be above double digit IQ. He did a horrible job. So yeah, if the guy who built and coached your team is the opposing coach, and your coach is a complete moron who panics and puts people in positions they have never played before – then bad things will happen.

    But the NBA couldn’t control any of this. So what’s the point of pretending that it’s all a set-up like pro wrestling?

    Hell, the most boring team of the millennium is in the finals for the sixth time in the last sixteen years. Besides basketball purists, who actually likes watching the San Antonio Spurs? They’ve been in several of the least-watched finals in NBA history, including the two lowest rated (2003 & 2007). Yet they keep making it back.

    Also, surely the NBA would love to have competitive finals every year. Nothing draws the eyeballs like a game seven – or at least a hard-fought series that goes six games.

    Yet over the last fifteen years, the final championship series have gone like this:

    4-0 – twice

    4-1 – five times

    4-2 – five times

    4-3 – three times

    Shouldn’t we see a preponderance of game sixes and game sevens if the NBA was really in the business of staging outcomes? That certainly would be more profitable for the league.

    Either way, whether it is the nba refs being influenced by the nba or by their gambling debt – or both – that means they are altering the outcome with calls. One of the easiest ways to do this is calling fouls since those are fairly subjective. Even Jeff van Gundy has said certain refs are biased against certain people with their calls, but what does an nba coach know?

    I have no doubt that bias is an important part of how an NBA game is officiated. There’s an obvious superstar bias. Home court bias. And certain players seem to either get the benefit of the doubt from NBA officials or not have any room for error.

    But if the NBA is staging games, it certainly could take more tips from Vince McMahon on how to make their masquerade more enjoyable.

  18. Who needs crooked refs? A story for Dirk/Pincher.

    It interested a lot of people that the Red Auerbach-era Boston Celtics won a lot of games but covered the point spread at a much lower rate than expected. It also interested a lot of the same people that Bob Cousy had a much lower FG percentage and assist rate in the 4th quarter in such games.

    Apologists say Cooz was tired. Local bookies say otherwise. Bottom line: how could you know if it was doing business or not?

  19. Just like the crooks behind boxing learned, it is much easier to get the desired outcome with help from a couple judges than an actual fighter. Even still, it doesn’t always go the way it was planned. I have never once claimed nba players are throwing games – though there is some compelling evidence that Knicks players were doing that in the early 80s – and that wouldn’t surprise me, either. My whole wwe comparison has only been about the refs.

    No, the nba did not plan on Avery Johnson and don Nelson being coaches. Nowhere did I claim that they controlled every aspect, only that the nba refs were not impartial at all and greatly influence games. One interesting point is that you continue to argue with me over this, but I know someone who helps set the lines for Vegas on sports and boxing and they have elaborate spreadsheets with info on specific referees for stuff like the nba and judges for boxing. I will let you draw your own conclusions from what exactly that means, but lets just say it runs counted to your beliefs.

    You took my comment about six or seven games and applied it only to the Finals – yet I notice you did not do the same thing to the earlier playoff series, which do seem to reach six or seven games quite frequently. Often times the much less marketable and far less talented team is in the other conference for the finals, so short series in the finals is not a huge surprise. I have not looked at the stats, but game 6 and 7 are fairly common in the playoffs prior to the finals, which is exactly the point. It may be a coincidence, but a cheating ref is saying it is not – and you may want to dismiss that, but I don’t.

    Yes, the spurs are frequently in the finals over the last decade and a half, but they also have had the best coach in the nba and multiple hall of fame players from the admiral to Duncan and Parker and ginobli and all kinds of awesome role players like Steve Kerr.

    I noticed you ducked the question asking if you will recognize that there was corruption in that kings game. Not if biases exist like van gundy says, but actual corruption. Are you maintaining that infamous kings game was just a series of phantom calls over and over? Do you also think Ali knocked out Liston with a punch that was so powerful it did not need to actually land to ko him? And what is your explanation for how much worse wade did in 2011 vs 2006? Is that another coincidence?

    Again, my focus is on documented facts like an nba ref going to prison for fixing games. You don’t think that is a big deal, and you refuse to admit whether the kings game had any sort of corrupt influence by the refs. So you think the nba is telling the absolute truth and one ref is the only one who has ever fixed games, the ref is lying about plenty of other refs gambling and the nba expectations that calls favor certain people (not sure what he had to gain by claiming that), a former FBI agent investigation was wrong, and that no other refs had nba expectations or outside factors influence how they would call the game? Is that your position?

  20. http://nypost.com/2013/09/14/knicks-players-fixed-games-for-drug-dealers-in-80s-fbi/

    Brutusale, good point about point shaving. I did not focus on that since it is much harder to prove. And to my knowledge, no one has actually been caught and imprisoned for that specific reason like an nba ref has, at least recently.

    But the link above talks about an FBI investigation into the early 80s Knicks for doing just that. Lots and lots of circumstantial evidence and a player getting a lifetime ban for crack – for the first time ever. I am sure that the large amount of money that player’s crack dealer made in a few games of betting was just a coincidence!

    People who have not been around much illegal gambling, drug use, or high level athletes don’t realize:

    1. How the personality type of a compulsive gambler is pretty much identical to personality type of a successful athlete

    2. How incredibly easy it is to get into huge debt for drug use and illegal gambling, and just how connected the criminals are to one another as far as having assets like this in place

    The above is supposedly how the nba ref got into trouble – gambling and then being forced to fix games to pay off his debt. The nba claims he is literally the only ref who was gambling on games, and no one else, including players, gambles on games. I think we all know how silly that sounds.

    Does anyone else remember the stories about Jordan and Barkley losing fortunes in Vegas and to golf hustlers? Norm macdonald even made a joke about it when he hosted the espys – no wonder he was never invited back.

  21. Brutusale,

    I’m not sure Cousy is a good reference point. He played back in the Paleolithic era of the NBA, when guys got paid on average a few thousand dollars a year to compete. George Mikan’s Minneapolis Lakers were the dominant team back when Cousy entered the league.

    And the evidence against Cousy just doesn’t seem that strong. He was friends with a gambler. He apparently, to your retelling, played lethargic in the fourth quarter to ensure his team didn’t cover the spread. But I’d like to see some hard data on that.

  22. http://www.nba.com/playoffs/

    This year of the 14 playoff series games before the finals, 10 of them reached either 6 or 7 games.

    So only four out of fourteen did not go to a game six or seven. I am sure that is a coincidence, too.

  23. Dirk Owned Lebron & Wade,

    You took my comment about six or seven games and applied it only to the Finals – yet I notice you did not do the same thing to the earlier playoff series, which do seem to reach six or seven games quite frequently.

    Do they? I’d like to see some evidence of that.

    Yes, the spurs are frequently in the finals over the last decade and a half, but they also have had the best coach in the nba and multiple hall of fame players from the admiral to Duncan and Parker and ginobli and all kinds of awesome role players like Steve Kerr.

    You seem to be saying that talent can occasionally overcome staging. Does that ever happen in pro wrestling?

    I noticed you ducked the question asking if you will recognize that there was corruption in that kings game. Not if biases exist like van gundy says, but actual corruption. Are you maintaining that infamous kings game was just a series of phantom calls over and over? Do you also think Ali knocked out Liston with a punch that was so powerful it did not need to actually land to ko him? And what is your explanation for how much worse wade did in 2011 vs 2006? Is that another coincidence?

    In order….

    1) It’s possible. Do I think it was directed by the league? No. But Donaghy is not the most reliable witness for your prosecution.

    2) Yes, I think Ali knocked down Liston in their second fight. The controversy is over the count.

    3) I already told you: Wade became less aggressive driving to the basket as he got older. He’s constantly injured. His reckless but brilliant play took a toll on his body.

    Wade’s performance in that 2006 NBA finals is probably the best I’ve ever seen – even better than the many MJ performances I watched. You still occasionally see flashes of it today, but he’s not the same guy. He peaked in the regular season a couple years after that 2006 final, and it’s been a slow but steady downhill turn ever since at an age when most players are peaking.

  24. I actually think a good point was made that we should expect to see evidence of the nba wanting games in playoffs to go six games or more, as a former nba ref caught fixing games has claimed. I used the espn stats available on their site and added up how many series prior to the finals went six or more games. It only goes back to 2003, which is plenty of data anyway.

    NBA playoffs not including finals lasting six games or more:

    2014 – 10 out of 14 – 71%
    2013 – 9 out of 14 – 64%
    2012 – 8 out of 14 – 57%
    2011: 6 out of 14 – 43%
    2010: 8 out of 14 – 57%
    2009: 8 out of 14 – 57%
    2008: 8 out of 14 – 57%
    2007: 7 out of 14 – 50%
    2006: 10 out of 14 – 71%
    2005: 7 out of 14 – 50%
    2004: 7 out of 14 – 50%
    2003: 11 out of 14 – 78%

    Even with a lot of bad teams and a very weak eastern conference, it sure seems to happen an awful lot. Only one time since 2003 has it not happened in at least half of the games.

  25. I decided to run through the NBA conference finals for the fifteen years from 1999 to 2013 to see if they were similar to the results I reported for the NBA finals for those years.

    The answer is that the Western Conference Championship finals showed a similar balance in outcomes, but the Eastern Conference Championship finals did not. The Eastern Conference was heavily skewed tin the direction of 4-2 and 4-3 series.

    Here are the results.

    Western Conference Championship Series

    4-0 – three times

    4-1 – four times

    4-2 – six times

    4-3 – twice

    Eastern Conference Championship Series

    4-0 – once

    4-1 – once

    4-2 – nine times

    4-3 – four times

    I’m skeptical that this means that the outcome of the Eastern Conference is manipulated by the NBA more than in the Western Conference.

  26. I enjoy going back and forth on this and will continue later tonight by responding to more points, but I have to address this point about Liston first. I was referencing the phantom punch, where it barely landed – certainly not enough to even come close to hurting, let alone dropping, a world class boxer.

    I boxed for a number of years with world class fighters and they ALL laughed at both of those fights as being completely fixed, but especially the rematch. Ali was notorious for having weak punches by heavyweight standards, which is why ken norton made him look horrible in all three fights – he had zero respect for Ali’s power. That was a weak punch without much on it from someone who did not have much real power in the first place, and Liston falls down and can’t get up? It had nothing to do with all the ties Liston had to the mob, right? Ali wouldn’t even knock out an average person with that punch, let alone a world class fighter.

    The FBI investigated a number of Ali fights and suspected several were fixed, including both of these with Liston, but that is always very difficult to prove. Are you seriously arguing that the punch in the second fight knocked Liston out, and it was a legit fight?!?!?!?

    By the way, if the Boston stuff doesn’t work for you, how about the coke dealer for the Knicks in the early 80s going from betting 300 a game to 10,000 a game and winning 6 out of 7 bets? Then that player is banned for life for coke use – first time a player had a lifetime ban for that – and then the nba institutes speakers ans a program every year to the players about the dangers of gambling! All of this is confirmed in FBI reports that they have admitted were legit.

  27. Spurs in five.

    Love the back and forth between “Pincher” and “Dirk”. I can’t stand the Heat, but I like Wade (he’s a Chicago boy and I’m hopelessly biased towards all Chicago connections) and will never forget his play in the series against Dallas. I remember watching that Finals (it is depressing and strange to be watching Finals without the Bulls!) and it was one of the greats. It was also awesome to watch Dallas and Dirk come back and take care of business five years later.

    Go Spurs!

  28. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLWvYRpVR4

    This is a Howard Cosell Wide World of Sports Segment about ali/liston 2 with two major media figures, Marciano, and Dempsey. If you watch the whole thing, there are only two reactions: Dempsey and Marciano are diplomatic about things and very polite, but never come out and say it was legit. The media people are far less polite and claim the fight was nowhere near legit.

    Marciano points out that the punch had at most 6 inches of power behind it, and that was six inches without getting his hips and legs into it – just an arm punch. He also pointed out that jersey joe Walcott did not immediately run over and start the count bc he did not think there was any way Ali could have knocked Liston down from that punch, and it was probably a slip in his mind.

    Howard points out that no one had ever knocked Liston down before, and that Ali had never knocked anyone out with one punch before – not even fighters who were mediocre compared to Liston.

    The boxing writer brings up some damning points – that Liston owned 22 percent of the promotional company putting on the fight, and it was out in his father in law’s name to try and hide this fact. He also said that with the people associated with putting this fight on and who all was involved he knew beforehand it would be a travesty and not on the level. The guy who edited the film said if that punch knocked Liston out then he belonged in the mayo clinic!

    The funniest was Dempsey though. He referenced how if you can’t say anything nice not to say anything at all. It was also funny to see how badass Dempsey looked even as a man in his 60s.

    It was pretty obvious that exactly zero people viewed that fight as legit. The only difference was the former boxing champs were a lot more polite with how they worded things than the media types.

  29. http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/24/was-rigged-by-mob/?page=all

    This Washington times writer obtained the damning FBI files on the fight and went into detail on why the FBI suspected it was a fix. Anyone who thinks the fight was legit should watch the video I posted above and read this article about the FBI’s conclusions.

  30. One other example that would validate the nba altering calls with refs to force a game six:

    With the heat up 3 to 1 against the pacers this year, the heat had a total of EIGHT free throws in the game.

    Game four? The heat had 34 free throws.

    Game three? The heat had 20 free throws.

    Again, this is something that is tough to prove, but a team that is getting to the line over four times as much in the previous game and two and a half times more in the game before that suddenly get a total of eight free throws in an elimination game?

  31. Dirk,

    I don’t think competitive playoff series are evidence of staging. Sometimes there are competitive series because the two teams are actually close to each other in talent and skill.

    But a lot of quick finishes to playoff series in four or five games is certainly evidence that the NBA is either NOT staging the games or doing a poor of staging them. More playoff games means more revenue for the leagues and its teams. So if the league is staging the outcome, they would definitely want to prolong the series for as long as they can.

    As to Ali/Liston’s second fight and the phantom punch, I think Ali knocked him down. The controversy was over the count. Liston claims he never heard it because the referee was busy trying to get Ali into his corner. Liston claims he stumbled as he stood up, but could’ve easily made it up if he knew what the count was. The ref was even ready to restart the fight, only to have the timekeeper yell at him that the fight was finished.

    The famous LA Times sports columnist Jim Murray claims he was there and saw the punch connect and that it lifted Liston off his front foot. And if you watch here in slo-mo, the punch certainly looks like it connects.

    Is there corruption in sports? Of course. Look at steroids in baseball a few years ago. But I doubt there’s much incentive in the larger professional leagues to hide or encourage corruption for the purpose of staging outcomes. Those leagues can manage competitiveness long before the competition on the field actually begins.

    It’s too easy to look at any odd outcome as the result of deliberate malfeasance. One team shoots a lot of free throws while the other team shoots very few. Must be because the refs are on the take, right?

    But what about the fact that there’s a lot of variance in sports? Sometimes LeBron has an off night and scores fewer than ten points. Sometimes a guy like Sleepy Floyd can get hot and hit over 50 points in a single playoff game. Sometimes the refs miss calls more in one direction than another. Sometimes a lower-seeded team beats the higher-seeded team.

    It happens. Not every unusual outcome is proof of a conspiracy.

  32. As far as the quick playoff series, that is hardly proof that the nba refs don’t try to influence games. Have you seen some of those teams? Not only are they awful, but they have zero following typically. Yet at the same time, an awful lot of teams with large followings seem to get to game six or seven as I showed above.

    When it comes to free throws – you admitted earlier that superstars get all kinds of calls. So the biggest star in the nba who always gets the calls suddenly gets in foul trouble when the pacers are about to be eliminated? Yeah, maybe that is a coincidence, but we have a proven nba ref game fixer saying otherwise.

    As far as the Ali fight, I am sorry but you are being completely gullible here, and you are also talking to someone with a great deal of personal experience on the subject. There is zero chance that the punch even hurt Liston. Zero!

    Ali was a light puncher, and had never knocked anyone out with one punch, and Liston had never been knocked down before – yet a six inch arm punch from a feather fisted heavy knocks him out?!?!?!? A six inch arm punch from a light puncher would not have knocked down liston or any adult male. Have you ever boxed before? Do you realize how good the chins are for elite boxers, especially someone who had gone his whole career without being knocked down like Liston?

    I am glad you found one reporter who thinks the fight was real, because almost no one else did – including the FBI. Did you watch the video or read the Washington times report on the FBI files?

    The FBI believed the fight was fixed, and they also believed the Knicks were shaving points for their coke dealer. Maybe we just see things differently – I tend to be cynical, and you tend to be trusting. We may just have to agree to disagree, but I would appreciate it if you took a look at the New York post story on the FBI and the 80s Knicks and the Washington times story on Liston and his mafia connections – like being friends with a good friend of lucky Luciano.

    Do you think the FBI was wrong about the Knicks and about Liston throwing the fight? Do you think the vast majority of boxing writers, fighters, and coaches were also wrong?

    Appreciate the back and forth! It has been fun so far and we are showing Unz what kind of lively debate Steve can bring with him!

Comments are closed.

Past
Classics
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.