The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 iSteve BlogTeasers
Murray in WSJ: "Why the SAT Isn’t a 'Student Affluence Test'"
shutterstock_134341541
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments

Charles Murray writes in the Wall Street Journal:

Why the SAT Isn’t a ‘Student Affluence Test’
A lot of the apparent income effect on standardized tests is owed to parental IQ—a fact that needs addressing.

By CHARLES MURRAY
March 24, 2015 7:11 p.m. ET

… The results are always the same: The richer the parents, the higher the children’s SAT scores. This has led some to view the SAT as merely another weapon in the inequality wars, and to suggest that SAT should actually stand for “Student Affluence Test.”

It’s a bum rap. All high-quality academic tests look as if they’re affluence tests. It’s inevitable. Parental IQ is correlated with children’s IQ everywhere. In all advanced societies, income is correlated with IQ. Scores on academic achievement tests are always correlated with the test-takers’ IQ. Those three correlations guarantee that every standardized academic-achievement test shows higher average test scores as parental income increases.

But those correlations also mean that a lot of the apparent income effect is actually owed to parental IQ. The SAT doesn’t have IQ information on the parents. But the widely used National Longitudinal Survey of Youth contains thousands of cases with data on family income, the mother’s IQ, and her children’s performance on the math and reading tests of the Peabody Individual Achievement Test battery, which test the same skills as the math and reading tests of the SAT.

For the SAT, shifting to more than $200,000 of family income from less than $20,000 moved the average score on the combined math and reading tests to the 74th percentile from the 31st—a jump of 43 percentiles. The same income shift moved the average PIAT score to the 82nd percentile from the 30th—a jump of 52 percentiles.

Now let’s look at the income effect in the PIAT when the mother’s IQ is statistically held constant at the national average of 100. Going to a $200,000 family income from a $1,000 family income raises the score only to the 76th percentile from the 50th—an increase of 26 percentiles. More important, almost all of the effect occurs for people making less than $125,000. Going to $200,000 from $125,000 moves the PIAT score only to the 76th percentile from the 73rd—a trivial change. Beyond $200,000, PIAT scores go down as income increases.

In assessing the meaning of this, it is important to be realistic about the financial position of families making $125,000 who are also raising children. They were in the top quartile of income distribution in 2013, but they probably live in an unremarkable home in a middle-class neighborhood and send their children to public schools. And yet, given mothers with equal IQs, the child whose parents make $125,000 has only a trivial disadvantage, if any, when competing with children from families who are far more wealthy.

Why should almost all of the income effect be concentrated in the first hundred thousand dollars or so? The money itself may help, but another plausible explanation is that the parents making, say, $60,000 are likely to be regularly employed, with all the things that regular employment says about a family. The parents are likely to be conveying advantages other than IQ such as self-discipline, determination and resilience—“grit,” as this cluster of hard-to-measure qualities is starting to be called in the technical literature.

Families with an income of, say, $15,000 are much more likely to be irregularly employed or subsisting on welfare, with negative implications for that same bundle of attributes. Somewhere near $100,000 the marginal increments in grit associated with greater income taper off, and further increases in income make little difference.

Let’s throw parental education into the analysis so that we can examine the classic indictment of the SAT: the advantage a child of a well-educated and wealthy family (Sebastian, I will call him) has over the child of a modestly educated working-class family (Jane). Sebastian’s parents are part of the fabled 1%, with $400,000 in income, and his mother has a college degree. But her IQ is only average. Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

Which child is likely to test higher? Sebastian is predicted to be at the 68th percentile on the PIAT. Jane is predicted to be at the 78th percentile. If you want high test scores, “choose” a smart but poor mother over a rich but dumb one—or over a rich and merely ungifted one.

One way of analyzing the effect of “privilege” — wealth and parental investment — on test scores and outcomes as adults would be to check how much an only child is advantaged relative to a child in a larger family.

For example, consider my wife v. myself. Harvard social scientist Robert D. Putnam’s new book Our Kids uses a super-simplified definition of class based solely on parents’ educational levels. By Putnam’s standards, my wife, whose mother and father both had masters degrees, would have grown up upper middle class. In contrast, my father had a junior college 2-year diploma and my mother had only a high school diploma, so I’d be lower middle class, I guess.

On the other hand, I was an only child, while my wife has three siblings. So, growing up, I never felt terribly strapped for money nor, especially, for parental time and energy, while my wife’s upbringing was more exigent.

Although you don’t hear about it much now that small families are the norm, back in my Baby Boom childhood, the privileged nature of being an only child — only children were widely said to be spoiled — was a frequent subject of conversation. This was especially true since I went to Catholic schools for 12 years, where very large families were common. For example, one friend, the class clown and best singer (his rendition of “MacNamara’s Band” in 4th grade remains a vivid memory), had eight siblings in his Irish family.

How privileged was I by being one of a family of three rather than one of a family of eleven?

My friend from the huge family has had a long, successful career as a TV sportscaster, along with some TV and movie credits as a comic actor. If you live in L.A., you’ve seen him on TV dozens of times over the last 30 years. So, growing up in a huge family didn’t ruin his life.On the other hand, if he’d been an only child with a real stage mother for a mom, I could imagine somebody with that much presence (his affect is reminiscent of that of the late Philip Seymour Hoffman or of a straight Nathan Lane) becoming a semi-famous character actor with maybe one or two Best Supporting Actor nominations.

Back during my more egalitarian childhood, people didn’t think that much about tutoring and Tiger Mothering, but, to some extent it works.

For example, I have had a pleasant life, but looking back I can see wasted opportunities. After my freshman year at Rice I came home and got a summer job at Burger King. After my sophomore year, I repaired dental equipment. Finally, after my junior year I worked as the assistant to the Chief Financial Officer of a big weedwacker manufacturing company. But what did the Burger King and repair jobs do for me other than teach me not to be a fry cook or repairman? These days I would have plotted to get internships in Silicon Valley or D.C. or Wall Street and had my parents pay my rent.

So, yes, I do think I was privileged to have the extra resources I was afforded by being an only child, even if I didn’t exploit my privileges as cunningly as I could have.

Quantifying how big a privilege that was seems challenging but doable. In fact, I’m sure somebody has done it already, and I invite commenters to link to studies.

It seems to me that measuring the effects of being an only child ought to be the first thing we do when we decide to theorize about Privilege.

By the way, however, there are other factors that may matter more in determining how Privileged you are. For example, my parents happened to turn out to be winners in the Great American Random Lottery of choosing a neighborhood to buy a home in during the 1950s — the demographics of their neighborhood have barely changed since the 1950s.

In contrast, my in-laws had the bad luck to draw what nightmarishly turned out to be one of the shortest straws in America: the Austin neighborhood on the West Side of Chicago. It was almost all white until Martin Luther King came to Chicago in 1966 to demand integration. Being good liberals, my in-laws joined a pro-integration group of neighbors who all swore to not engage in white flight. But after three years and three felonies against their small children, my in-laws were pretty much financially wiped out by trying to make integration work in Austin. And thus after they finally sold out at a massive loss, they wound up living in a farmhouse without running water for the next two years.

Bizarrely, while the once-pleasant street where my wife grew up in Austin looks nowadays like a post-apocalyptic wasteland, a couple of miles to the west is Superior Street in Oak Park, IL where my father grew up in the 1920s. It looks like an outdoor Frank Lloyd Wright museum today. The Wright district was saved by Oak Park’s secret, illegal, and quite effective “black-a-block” racial quota system imposed on realtors to keep Oak Park mostly white (and, these days, heavily gay).

So a not insignificant fraction of White Privilege in 2015 actually consists of whether or not the Eye of Sauron turned upon your parents’ neighborhood or not.

 
• Category: Economics, Ideology • Tags: Charles Murray, College Admission, IQ, SAT 
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
    []
  1. In mentioning the PIAT Murray could be moving the goalposts. The PIAT, being a subject test and thus teachable, is probably less of a predictor of IQ than the old SAT and therefore less useful at assessing college suitability and identifying exceptional talent. In blaming rich people and trying to discredit the SAT, the left does a disservice to the thousands of smart, middle-income and poor students who do score well and would benefit from the SAT.

    The parents are likely to be conveying advantages other than IQ such as self-discipline, determination and resilience—“grit,” as this cluster of hard-to-measure qualities is starting to be called in the technical literature.

    then that devalues technical literature if you start muddying it with subjective stuff

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/murray-in-wsj-why-the-sat-isnt-a-student-affluence-test/#comment-906303
    More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  2. and reading tests of the Peabody Individual Achievement Test battery, which test the same skills as the math and reading tests of the SAT.

    maybe the newest SAT, but certainly not the old SAT. plenty of 4.0 GPA kids got lowish/average SAT scores on the older tests. This was a disappointing article by Murray

    Read More
  3. heavily gay – since you brought up the effect on IQ and privilege of a couple having an only child, how about taking your reasoning to the limit, no children.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right: to be able to afford to live next to that bizarre Nippo-Tudor Cottage Frank Lloyd Wright monstrosity like my father did as a child, it helps these days to be gay and not have any children.
    , @Robert Anderson
    The "no children" didn't take the test, because they do not exist.
  4. @george
    heavily gay - since you brought up the effect on IQ and privilege of a couple having an only child, how about taking your reasoning to the limit, no children.

    Right: to be able to afford to live next to that bizarre Nippo-Tudor Cottage Frank Lloyd Wright monstrosity like my father did as a child, it helps these days to be gay and not have any children.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Frank Lloyd Wright's Moore House is next door to the house my father grew up in from 1917-1929. Wright designed it as a Tudor cottage in 1895, but then burned down on Christmas Day in 1922. When Wright got back from designing the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, he rebuilt it on a larger scale as a Japanese-looking Tudor cottage.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_G._Moore_House
    , @Alfa158
    "Nippo-Tudor". Thank you, that's perfectly apt. I once stood on the sidewalk staring at that house and couldn't quite figure out how to describe it. I didn't have a guidebook with me so I wasn't even entirely sure if it was a genuine Lloyd house, or a spoof-caricature someone built after Wright just because it was in that neighborhood.
    I wouldn't live in one of his places, but I love the window design tie I bought at the gift shop in the studio/museum.
  5. OT , say what you want about the Euroweenies but at least the cops don’t seem to be trigger happy . In the US this guy would have been dead 10 times over ,”I feared for my life”.

    Read More
  6. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I’d wager a guess that the correlation would be significantly stronger if the father’s IQ could have been assessed as well. I’d assume that there are a significant number of affluent families where the father is the skilled/educated breadwinner.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonah
    This is very astute and under-considered by sociologists looking at longitudinal data like these. Given hypergamy - the propensity for women to "marry up", and the willingness of men to "marry down" in favor of looks or other non IQ traits - I would bet Murray's point would be amplified by if you looked at father's IQ instead of mother's. Wish he had the #s for dads/SAT rather than moms/PIAT. Would be a stronger and more striking piece.

    By the way, I doubt I'm the only person here whose father was smarter than my mother. It's probably true for over 60% of the population but you never hear about it. For people with one parent SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than the other, I bet it's Dads over Moms 10-1.

    And yes, the math checks out. Dumb, low status men, and ugly smart women are more frequently shut out of the marriage game than their gender opposites.
    , @BurplesonAFB
    Notice how when you control for mother's IQ but allow father's IQ to vary, the income effect is sliced neatly in half, from 52 to 26.

    It's almost as if these biologists might be on to something with their new fangled ideas of "heritability".
  7. @Steve Sailer
    Right: to be able to afford to live next to that bizarre Nippo-Tudor Cottage Frank Lloyd Wright monstrosity like my father did as a child, it helps these days to be gay and not have any children.

    Frank Lloyd Wright’s Moore House is next door to the house my father grew up in from 1917-1929. Wright designed it as a Tudor cottage in 1895, but then burned down on Christmas Day in 1922. When Wright got back from designing the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, he rebuilt it on a larger scale as a Japanese-looking Tudor cottage.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_G._Moore_House

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Shortly after rebuilding Chicago's Moore House, Wright turned his attention to Western PA's "Falling Water", a summer home specifically designed for local wealthy elites the Kaufmans (of Kaufmans, a local/regional shopping store a la Gimbels, or Macys). The Kaufmans specifically wanted their summer home to be built with a view of the waterfall that runs through the area, instead Wright built the house right on top of the falls. I'd have refused to pay his commission for not giving his patrons what they specifically asked for.

    It is made almost entirely of stone and is surrounded by large trees on all sides. Perfect magnet for a lightning storm of which Western PA tends to get quite few of during that time of yr.

    Falling Water later passed to Jr., who never married (?) who then left it to the state of PA which turned it into a state landmark or tourist trap.

    Interesting summer home if it had been built near the desert. Doesnt make much sense to build it right smack dab in center of area completely surrounded by long tall trees which tend to attract lightning.

  8. Murray’s point is a question on an IQ test that blank-slater’s keep failing. Hence the need for guys like Murray to always be teaching to the test.

    Read More
  9. Schopenhauer used to say that boys got their brains from their mothers but their character from their fathers. I don’t recall if he thought the same about girls or if the genders switched (of course he had derogatory opinions about women in general.)

    Naturally I am more inclined to think about these things (from whence intelligence comes) after reading stuff about HBD and IQ. So, introspectively, I think the mental quickness part (and the retentive part) is innate, and therefore is either genetic or fortuitous, but the rest of it depends on circumstances. Those circumstances don’t involve status, good health, wealth or even a stable home environment (we had none of these.) What I have seen is that those circumstances involve a home and extended family environment that sets the bar for intellectual competency at a certain level, so that it is normal for the child to aspire and to exceed that level. In practical terms, then, it usually means the women in the family determine how “smart” a child is going to be. It’s not a question of “tiger mothering” its just the standard in different households.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    Schopenhauer used to say that boys got their brains from their mothers
     
    Yes, this is somewhat the case. Intelligence genes on the X chromosome only come from a boy's mother. This factor alone suggests for males that about 55% of intelligence comes from mothers, or 52.5% across both sexes. (The X chromosome is large, while the Y chromosome is very small)

    For both sexes, mitochondrial DNA comes from mothers. Finally, the same childhood environmental factors that can depress the IQ of young girls will have some residual effect on the prenatal environment of their children, including IQ.
    , @Marty
    I'm a chronic 'noticer' like Steve, not as smart but always noticing. My mom is a militant non-noticer, not out of politics but out of innate niceness. She's a Republican voter who gets angry when distinctions are pointed out and doesn't believe Mexicans get free health care or school meals. Oh, and she thinks Michelle is attractive. I've told her to change parties but so far no luck.
  10. @anon
    I'd wager a guess that the correlation would be significantly stronger if the father's IQ could have been assessed as well. I'd assume that there are a significant number of affluent families where the father is the skilled/educated breadwinner.

    This is very astute and under-considered by sociologists looking at longitudinal data like these. Given hypergamy – the propensity for women to “marry up”, and the willingness of men to “marry down” in favor of looks or other non IQ traits – I would bet Murray’s point would be amplified by if you looked at father’s IQ instead of mother’s. Wish he had the #s for dads/SAT rather than moms/PIAT. Would be a stronger and more striking piece.

    By the way, I doubt I’m the only person here whose father was smarter than my mother. It’s probably true for over 60% of the population but you never hear about it. For people with one parent SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than the other, I bet it’s Dads over Moms 10-1.

    And yes, the math checks out. Dumb, low status men, and ugly smart women are more frequently shut out of the marriage game than their gender opposites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    It should be noted that the act of taking the SAT is a status marker in and of itself. The lowest of the low don't bother.

    Jonah, what you're saying probably holds true for married couples in the middle and upper classes. But what about unmarried folks at the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum? There are an awful lot of kids being born out of wedlock these days.

    Among the lower classes, more than a few dumb unemployed (and unemployable) guys end up as baby daddies. The mothers aren't geniuses themselves, but many of them are significantly smarter than their sperm donors.

    (Black women tend to be sharper than black men.)

    Steve, you should be glad you worked those blue-collar jobs. It gave you invaluable perspective on the real world - a view of the full spectrum of human achievement (or lack thereof). Privileged kids who intern at Goldman Sachs tend to be cocooned from reality, so they're more apt to swallow the multiculti/diversity-über-alles bullshit.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say that every single Ivy League graduate should spend a few months working at a fast-food restaurant in a lower-income area. If nothing else, it would give them a glimpse of how those on the left end of the bell curve live their lives. Having to deal with some of our society's dimmer bulbs might temper their enthusiasm for importing endless swarms of peons.
    , @Nathan Wartooth
    But not for the reasons that you think.

    Women don't want to marry a guy who makes less than they do. The ugly smart women who make a lot of money are in the worst position of all.
    , @keypusher
    You probably have a point. But Murray and Herrnstein did think about this in The Bell Curve, and one of their assortative mating arguments was that high-IQ men were more likely to marry high-IQ women than before. Murray repeated this in Coming Apart I believe.
    , @Anonymous
    Is that the mechanism behind reversion to the mean? Smart, successful men tend to pick beauty over brains, while ugly, smart women have to settle for dumb losers, resulting in a tendency towards the population mean?
  11. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I’m thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a “Teach Yourself the GMAT” book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the “tricks” and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Z Blog
    This story reminds me of when a friend had finished her shopping, and she went back to her car with her packages. When she got to the car, there was someone sitting in the back seat. As she approached, she saw it was an old woman.

    She asked the woman what she was doing in her car, and the woman said that she had gotten lost looking for the bus and got so tired that she just had to sit somewhere to rest, and asked if she could possibly see her way to driving her home or just to the nearest bus stop.

    Well, this lady was suspicious, so she said that she would be right back, and she returned to the mall and asked security if they could do something about the old woman. When a security guard got to the car, they found out she wasn't an old woman at all, but a man; and in her purse was a small hatchet.
    , @dsgntd_plyr
    As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the “tricks” and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.


    You figured out the "tricks" because you're smarter than most people. Dumb-dumbs can't do what you did.

    Put another way, the "tricks" are the test.
    , @midtown
    I think you're right -- the lack of knowledge is a big deal among poorer but intelligent children and their families.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Ha. That's pretty cool. I had the exact same experience with the ACT and GRE, although I'm not sure if the ACT can be gamed as much as the SAT.
    , @jjbees
    One example of this is the MCAT.

    This is the exam to get into medical school. To actually get in if you are white or asian, you need a score that is higher than 30. A 30 is ~80th percentile, and the people taking the test are generally college students and graduates who want to be doctors...the competition is pretty stiff.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is "in the know" will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    There are many intelligent, hard working proles who get straight A's in college but bomb the MCATs because they are not clever enough to figure out this is what they need to do. The corollary is also true, there are many elites with sub par GPAs who do understand this, do their test prep and pad their resumes, who succeed.
    , @NorthOfTheOneOhOne
    I agree. I grew up in similar circumstances in the South and had no idea that there was a way to prep for any of those tests..
    , @Anonymous
    Pick up a Korean-language Sunday newspaper from Palisades Park, NJ, and you will find a huge education section. In it you will see ad after ad of test prep centers along with former students and their SAT scores and which colleges they were accepted to. No doubt Koreans might, on average, have a little IQ advantage, but their success is 95% brute force hard work. Same with Jews, who are neurotically hardworking. If one truly accepted the statistics and IQ distribution, East Asians and Jews are over-represented in academic achievement, big time. Unless, of course, there is more to it that simply IQ. But I'll bet Murray has personal reasons for not wanting to accept this. He was raised by a schoolmarm and he strikes me as being as serious at the age of 10 as he is now. He studied history and social science. He failed out of linear algebra. But of course, his getting into Harvard and MIT was due solely to his high IQ.
    , @syonredux

    Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.
     
    I signed up for the GRE. I took the GRE sample test.Scored 98th percentile on the verbal (the part that I cared about; I'm a humanities guy).That was the extent of my prep.When I took the test for real, I scored 98th percentile on the verbal.
    , @E. Rekshun
    With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the “tricks” and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    Same scenario for me. During high school junior year (1980), my classmates and I got a mostly unexpected announcement, something to the effect, "remember to show up at the gymnasium on Saturday at 8:00am for the SAT." There was no prep whatsoever, and I scored in the 80th percentile. Then at age 22 I took the GMAT cold and scored at the 60th percentile, but didn't enroll anywhere. Ten years later, after a job layoff, I got serious and studied GMAT prep books and self tests four hours a day for eight weeks, then took the GMAT and scored a 720 at the 98th percentile. Still didn't get me into Stanford, but it did earn me a 50% tuition scholarship at the University of Florida and membership into MENSA. LOL!

  12. I do not have a problem with cognitive tests, but I have a problem in how they are interpreted. Teachers tend to value the intellect of children by their own personal perceptions of what is intelligence. If you ask the concept of intelligence, people of different professions (and especially if these professions perfectly fit with their profiles, neurological culture), give them concepts that are consistent with their occupations.

    There are 3 basic and significant issues regarding this type of assessment mass of intelligence.

    First, it disregards the potential positive cognitive value of the individual, that the test results, can generally be very poor to evaluate.

    Second, the test results will often be inconsistent in relation to a real individual holistic assessment, where not only the intelligence but also personality. Not to mention the internal factors such as cognitive amplitude (symmetric or asymmetric intelligence and their cognitive and behavioral tendencies) and intellectual intrinsic motivations.

    Third, the cognitive tests are blind tests for find people who give high value to morality (especially objective morality, typical of problem solvers).

    It is assumed that those who take the highest grades tend to be

    Smarter

    and

    more responsible (empathetic). (On average, statistics)

    But to deny that collective rapes are happening in the white working class neighborhood in any city in the South Central of England, is not empathetic, even that is based on media cover-up of non-national perpetrators. In fact, the ” elite ” british makes this kind of attitude without any genuine empathy bias, but to protect their Maoist ideology.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim
    Cognitive tests are designed to measure cognitive ability not degree of empathy. Criticising them for not showing how empathetic someone is is like criticising a thermometer because it does not tell you the humidity.
  13. I think you have a point in the extremes – single child vs. one of a very large brood. Probably some positive nurture effects for the former over the latter. But most kids are from families of 2-3, where there’s enough parental attention to go around without too many negative helicoptering effects, no?

    Also: would imagine more families with single children are divorced. Baby stress breaks up (or at least reveals cracks) in marriages more often than is reported.

    Given all this, I think taking family size into consideration might ultimately muddy Murray’s point.

    All in all, you may have more faith in nurture than I do. But to the extent it does matter (you say 50%, I might peg it at 30%), your point about the diversity-quotient is probably the most apt. Latest research downplays direct parenting effects, and plays up the “non-shared environment” (ie peer influences). You really did luck out growing up in the Valley.

    Last, if you’re referring to Fred Rogan, can you tell him to drop that Greek boob that’s glommed onto him.

    Read More
  14. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    As my grandfather, who grew up poor and went to college on scholarship, told me 40 years ago, “the rich boys are smarter than the poor boys, and don’t you ever think they aren’t.” So much damage has been done by leftists, meliorists more precisely, manipulating reality for their own misguided ends.

    Read More
  15. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    This story reminds me of when a friend had finished her shopping, and she went back to her car with her packages. When she got to the car, there was someone sitting in the back seat. As she approached, she saw it was an old woman.

    She asked the woman what she was doing in her car, and the woman said that she had gotten lost looking for the bus and got so tired that she just had to sit somewhere to rest, and asked if she could possibly see her way to driving her home or just to the nearest bus stop.

    Well, this lady was suspicious, so she said that she would be right back, and she returned to the mall and asked security if they could do something about the old woman. When a security guard got to the car, they found out she wasn’t an old woman at all, but a man; and in her purse was a small hatchet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    This sounds like a campfire story. Didn't cars have locks on the doors in this universe?
  16. As a second-generation only child, it seems like the benefits of additional parental resources are outweighed by 1) developmental delays in social skills/worldliness caused by no sibling interaction and 2) the likelihood that families that can manage only one child despite no fertility issues have other dysfunction going on.

    Read More
  17. “Why the SAT Isn’t a ‘Student Affluence Test’”

    Because regression:

    Parents’ Income is a Poor Predictor of SAT Score

    Also, affluence brings less SAT advantage in a declining economy, so if Murray is wrong about global warming, and a lot of city infrastructure goes underwater, causing long-term economic decline, his libertarian idealism will make less sense. The aristocracy is not a cognitive elite.

    Merit’s Liquidity

    Read More
  18. The Panel Study of Income Dynamics is probably a good place to search for data on the relationship between number of siblings and ‘privilege’.

    http://psidonline.isr.umich.edu/

    After a few minutes playing around the the UI, I found that they do have inter-generational data on wealth as related to several variable (Word Score, race, family structure, etc.), but I’ve yet to figure out how to compare two or more variables. Maybe someone with more time on their hands today can get some useful data.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for the link. For those wanting to analyze the PSID data these links might help:
    http://www.asdfree.com/search/label/panel%20study%20of%20income%20dynamics%20%28psid%29
    https://github.com/ajdamico/usgsd/tree/master/Panel%20Study%20of%20Income%20Dynamics
  19. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I grew up in a Catholic family with double-digit kids (and not very long ago- the youngest are still in grade school). Older people have memories of families like that, but a lot of younger people are incredulous and can’t imagine how it’s possible. It’s a ton of work for parents to raise that many, obviously, but I think people overestimate just how hard it is. You can’t count the hours it takes to care for one or two and then multiply, because the marginal additional effort required declines with each kid. Eventually the teenagers are keeping an eye on the younger kids, dropping them off at baseball practice, etc.

    Growing up I knew lot of the Opus Dei crowd- successful, educated white-collar types with big families. In those circles the sample sizes are so large that the HBD stuff becomes really obvious once you know what to look for. My parents are both pretty smart, and most of my siblings have gotten very high test scores and top school admissions without prepping much at all. As you look at different large families you see remarkable family similarities in intelligence, introversion/extroversion, etc.

    My impression is that entry into the top levels of business and academia depends a lot more on the family’s socioeconomic status and general savviness than it does on the number of kids. And the savviness increases as the younger kids see what the older kids do. It’s amazing how much more clued in my siblings are about academic grants, job opportunities, etc. than I was at their age. We’re not quite on the Harvard/Goldman track, though…for all I know, family size could have some effect at that level.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
    Your comment seems as good a segue as any into my own. You had a large number of smart siblings. This no doubt confers advantage on some of the siblings as they leverage the success of the others. An only kid like Sailer or myself must make it strictly on our own merits as single child parents are often older parents who may not be able to help much as the kid matures into the job market. A guy with eight older brothers and sisters all successful on the other hand has a pretty broad support base when he's looking for a job.

    How much of the increased parental investment into an only child is offset by the increased opportunity available to a child from a large family at the same IQ level?
  20. @Santoculto
    I do not have a problem with cognitive tests, but I have a problem in how they are interpreted. Teachers tend to value the intellect of children by their own personal perceptions of what is intelligence. If you ask the concept of intelligence, people of different professions (and especially if these professions perfectly fit with their profiles, neurological culture), give them concepts that are consistent with their occupations.

    There are 3 basic and significant issues regarding this type of assessment mass of intelligence.

    First, it disregards the potential positive cognitive value of the individual, that the test results, can generally be very poor to evaluate.

    Second, the test results will often be inconsistent in relation to a real individual holistic assessment, where not only the intelligence but also personality. Not to mention the internal factors such as cognitive amplitude (symmetric or asymmetric intelligence and their cognitive and behavioral tendencies) and intellectual intrinsic motivations.

    Third, the cognitive tests are blind tests for find people who give high value to morality (especially objective morality, typical of problem solvers).

    It is assumed that those who take the highest grades tend to be

    Smarter

    and

    more responsible (empathetic). (On average, statistics)


    But to deny that collective rapes are happening in the white working class neighborhood in any city in the South Central of England, is not empathetic, even that is based on media cover-up of non-national perpetrators. In fact, the '' elite '' british makes this kind of attitude without any genuine empathy bias, but to protect their Maoist ideology.

    Cognitive tests are designed to measure cognitive ability not degree of empathy. Criticising them for not showing how empathetic someone is is like criticising a thermometer because it does not tell you the humidity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Cognitive tests were designed to measure the concept of intelligence of those who built them.

    And are morally blind tests, which is very important. Note that all the problems that are affecting the West, are precisely caused by this blindness.

    Cognitive tests measure the IQ bureaucrat. Real cognitive tests should measure people's strengths in real time. This is to measure genotypic intelligence, which in the end, is what matters most.

    If there was a real meritocracy, we would not have people who have no empathy in charge of nations.
  21. @Jonah
    This is very astute and under-considered by sociologists looking at longitudinal data like these. Given hypergamy - the propensity for women to "marry up", and the willingness of men to "marry down" in favor of looks or other non IQ traits - I would bet Murray's point would be amplified by if you looked at father's IQ instead of mother's. Wish he had the #s for dads/SAT rather than moms/PIAT. Would be a stronger and more striking piece.

    By the way, I doubt I'm the only person here whose father was smarter than my mother. It's probably true for over 60% of the population but you never hear about it. For people with one parent SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than the other, I bet it's Dads over Moms 10-1.

    And yes, the math checks out. Dumb, low status men, and ugly smart women are more frequently shut out of the marriage game than their gender opposites.

    It should be noted that the act of taking the SAT is a status marker in and of itself. The lowest of the low don’t bother.

    Jonah, what you’re saying probably holds true for married couples in the middle and upper classes. But what about unmarried folks at the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum? There are an awful lot of kids being born out of wedlock these days.

    Among the lower classes, more than a few dumb unemployed (and unemployable) guys end up as baby daddies. The mothers aren’t geniuses themselves, but many of them are significantly smarter than their sperm donors.

    (Black women tend to be sharper than black men.)

    Steve, you should be glad you worked those blue-collar jobs. It gave you invaluable perspective on the real world – a view of the full spectrum of human achievement (or lack thereof). Privileged kids who intern at Goldman Sachs tend to be cocooned from reality, so they’re more apt to swallow the multiculti/diversity-über-alles bullshit.

    In fact, I’d go so far as to say that every single Ivy League graduate should spend a few months working at a fast-food restaurant in a lower-income area. If nothing else, it would give them a glimpse of how those on the left end of the bell curve live their lives. Having to deal with some of our society’s dimmer bulbs might temper their enthusiasm for importing endless swarms of peons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jo S'more

    It should be noted that the act of taking the SAT is a status marker in and of itself. The lowest of the low don’t bother.
     
    I think some schools make all of the students take the test and they pay for the test for them.
  22. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Don’t discount your experience working at BK. If your parents had kept you in a privilege bubble, you probably would think importing replacement workers for the losing class was a good thing. If more intelligent people got out of their bubbles for long enough, they might both understand the poor (and HBD) and care about them; a rare combination these days.

    Read More
  23. A couple of things:

    The PIAT is given when subjects are youths, when the shared environment effect on IQ hasn’t yet completely evaporated. Correlating the effects of family variables might be something you can do, but it sounds like the quintessential “academic” exercise.

    In any case:

    Now let’s look at the income effect in the PIAT when the mother’s IQ is statistically held constant at the national average of 100. Going to a $200,000 family income from a $1,000 family income raises the score only to the 76th percentile from the 50th—an increase of 26 percentiles.

    Umm, father’s IQ?

    Behavioral genetic studies clearly show a 0 shared environment impact on adult IQ. Hence, family environment variables simply can’t have any real effect.

    Read More
  24. Mike Zwick [AKA "Dahinda"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The ironic thing is that Austin and Oak Park were very similar architecturally and demographically until the just after WWII. Austin began to then see a lot of its Italian and Greek population move to places like Franklin Park and Schiller Park, and even Oak Park, while they were initially replaced with white Appalachians (a forgotten part of the Great Migration). In 1968, Madison Street, which runs through Austin, burned from Western Avenue all the way past Garfield Park which borders Austin. The old Madison/Crawford district that was the “downtown” of the Chicago’s West Side, where many Austinites shopped, burned in this riot caused by MLK being shot. I am sure that many, many for sale signs went up in front of houses in Austin after that and the only buyers were blacks seeking to get out of the hell hole the West Side was becoming.

    Read More
  25. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the “tricks” and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    You figured out the “tricks” because you’re smarter than most people. Dumb-dumbs can’t do what you did.

    Put another way, the “tricks” are the test.

    Read More
  26. Taking Murray’s example of Jane and Sebastian:

    Sebastian is rich but his mother has an IQ in the 50% percentile. He will score in the 68% percentile on the test, 18% better than IQ would predict.

    Jane is poor but her mother has an IQ in the 99% percentile. She will score in the 78% percentile on the test, 21% worse than IQ would predict.

    Without seeing Murray’s data, I think it’s safe to assume that if Jane’s mother had an IQ in the 50% percentile, then Jane’s test scores would be well below the 50% percentile. Let’s say somewhere around the 35% percentile, compared to Sebastian’s 68%. Given equal maternal intelligence, the poor kid would do about half as well as the rich one.

    It’s not clear to me why Murray thinks those numbers demonstrate that the test scores are not in large part a measure of wealth.

    Of course, the difference might be due to the father’s IQ or to unmeasurable factors like “grit,” but those numbers don’t address either of those factors.

    Read More
  27. Off-topic: An article on teen hearthrobs:

    Then add in the middle-school preference for boys who look soft: big eyes, round cheeks, full lips, thick hair. Muscles and chest fur are scary — tweens favor male stars who look like their idea of a hot date is a milkshake and a cuddle. The No. 1 insult boys in my eighth grade had for Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Renfro, River Phoenix, Corey Haim, Macaulay Culkin, Edward Furlong and, yes, Jonathan Brandis was, “He looks like a girl.” Which was especially hard to deny when Brandis came to fame playing a soccer star who dressed in drag and called himself Martha.

    How many of those teen heartthrobs transitioned into adult stars? One. DiCaprio acknowledged the cull in a 2010 interview with Rolling Stone. “My two main competitors in the beginning, the blond-haired kids I went to audition with, one hung himself and the other died of a heroin overdose,” he said. The suicide is Brandis. The OD could have been any one of several.

    Four thousand fan letters every week aside, it’s tough being a girly-looking guy with your face all over the newsstands, even if the articles themselves are nice. For one, your face probably won’t age into something masculine enough to play adult roles and action heroes — even DiCaprio has had to disguise his soft features with a thick layer of fat. Worse, teen girls are fickle. When they get a new crush, those letters stop.

    http://www.laweekly.com/arts/jonathan-brandis-how-life-after-teen-stardom-can-take-a-wrong-turn-4183323

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Kurt Russell was also a child actor who successfully transitioned into a successful Hollywood career as an adult.
    , @E. Rekshun
    How many of those teen heartthrobs transitioned into adult stars?

    And, remember, David Cassidy, Davey Jones, and Leif Garret
  28. I have an idea for a comedy sketch where parents try to ensure that their kids DON’T have all the advantages they did growing up. The kids thank them for making their lives as miserable as possible.

    Read More
  29. @Jonah
    This is very astute and under-considered by sociologists looking at longitudinal data like these. Given hypergamy - the propensity for women to "marry up", and the willingness of men to "marry down" in favor of looks or other non IQ traits - I would bet Murray's point would be amplified by if you looked at father's IQ instead of mother's. Wish he had the #s for dads/SAT rather than moms/PIAT. Would be a stronger and more striking piece.

    By the way, I doubt I'm the only person here whose father was smarter than my mother. It's probably true for over 60% of the population but you never hear about it. For people with one parent SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than the other, I bet it's Dads over Moms 10-1.

    And yes, the math checks out. Dumb, low status men, and ugly smart women are more frequently shut out of the marriage game than their gender opposites.

    But not for the reasons that you think.

    Women don’t want to marry a guy who makes less than they do. The ugly smart women who make a lot of money are in the worst position of all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonah
    No, I'm with you. That's exactly the reason I think.
    , @iffen
    Easy prey for callous types who know how to manipulate the emotions. Her IQ doesn't help her in that area.
  30. “But after three years and three felonies against their small children, my in-laws were pretty much financially wiped out by trying to make integration work in Austin. And thus after they finally sold out at a massive loss, they wound up living in a farmhouse without running water for the next two years.”

    This is a story that has been repeated over and over again. White flight is shown in a light where it is a horrible thing for minorities. But the truth is that it’s horrible for the whites.

    When whites start fleeing an area, housing prices drop like a rock. That house that you bought for 100,000 and have paid years of the mortgage on, might only be worth 50,000 now. Since you only pay off interest in the first few years and hardly anything on the principle, you could end up owing 50,000 to the bank on that house and when you move you will be paying two mortgages instead of one.

    I’m not sure if anyone has ever done a study on how much whites have lost during white flight but at this point it has to be in the billions. Not to mention all of the money wasted on car repair and gas having to live in a suburb and work in the city.

    Getting rid of restrictive covenants has been one of the most economically damaging things to the US. Drive through an old part of a city that has had white flight. It’s really sad to see all of these once beautiful houses now fallen into disrepair, because the area is now a ghetto.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I’m not sure if anyone has ever done a study on how much whites have lost during white flight but at this point it has to be in the billions.
     
    A back-of-the-envelope calculation puts the number between 1 and 5 trillion in 2015 dollars.
  31. If you look at SAT scores by race and income, whites and Asians from the lowest income groups outscore blacks from the highest.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1a52vkpjans/UmjAc5fGxtI/AAAAAAAAA6U/EmUPxCtOsXg/s1600/sat+race+income+1995.png

    This is because, even though SAT score is correlated to family income, it is also highly correlated to IQ and IQ is highly correlated to race. So the race/IQ effects outweigh any income effects. This BTW is why they can’t (from the POV of blacks) just get rid of racial affirmative action and switch to income based affirmative action.

    Income is a crude measure of IQ. While people with high IQ don’t tend to live in outright poverty, unless they are nuts like Ted Kaczynski, they don’t necessarily choose the most lucrative professions. There are plumbers who make more money that college professors, not to mention professional athletes, rappers, etc. who make more than most of us.

    You also have to take into account 1st generation immigrants – when my son was in college(an Ivy League school) he had a Chinese friend who is now in medical school whose mom worked off the books for below minimum wage packing orders in a Chinese restaurant. Her income did not reflect her IQ or that of her offspring but was due to the fact that she had grown up in the Chinese countryside, had received little education and didn’t speak a word of English. On the other hand, one of his other friends was from a family that owned a large steel mill in India. I’m sure that her IQ was fairly high but probably not higher (actually probably lower) that than of the Chinese kid whose family income was 1 % of hers. She had probably been tutored for the SAT and had the skids greased for her in who knows what ways, while the Chinese kid had to figure everything out for himself.

    Read More
  32. I’d note that affluence and parental age are related and that affluence taken too far is not an advantage. Unless you are a prodigal quant type or have some other talent or lucky break that vaults you into the upper income brackets at an early age, you have to do the slow climb up the income ladder. Dr. Michael Burry e.g., the hedge fund guru, would,no doubt, have had a very high income had he continued with his residency at Stanford and practiced medicine. He just wouldn’t have been rich as Croesus at age 30 and retired. In fact, had he been married and raising a family when he was at Stanford University Hospital, he might have struggled to even buy a home and been forced to live across the bay in Fremont or Hayward and spent his spare time changing diapers rather than shorting synthetic CDOs.

    Then there is the issue of having too much money. Most people, even the children of the affluent, have to keep their eye on the ball because mom and dad can’t or won’t support them forever. Then there are the wastrel children of the rich. If not a majority they are certainly a significant enough minority to be a cautionary tale that affluence can be a good thing taken too far. I wonder if anyone has ever studied IQ among this cohort of the population. Its small but gaining access to, say the children of the 10,000 richest families in America, might be hard.

    Finally, if I can bore those with more expertise on academic testing, I note that there are SAT coaching services available today that were not available 40 or 50 years ago. In my day you just registered for and showed up for the test on the assigned date. No study, no practice tests etc. Are these SAT coaching services effective and if so that might explain some of the observed income based differential.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brent

    Finally, if I can bore those with more expertise on academic testing, I note that there are SAT coaching services available today that were not available 40 or 50 years ago. In my day you just registered for and showed up for the test on the assigned date. No study, no practice tests etc. Are these SAT coaching services effective and if so that might explain some of the observed income based differential.
     
    If you've got enough self-discipline, you can coach yourself at very low cost, instead of paying over a thousand dollars to have someone hold your hand and walk you through the test. For less than a hundred dollars you can buy a couple of books on test-taking strategies and a couple of dozen old SATs and prep for the SAT on your own. Prepping probably correlates more with self-discipline and doggedness than it does with income level. (Of course, self-discipline and doggedness are probably also highly correlated with income level, too.)
  33. I always enjoy socially scientific speculation in this medium.

    But you do realize that all this hype over “student affluence test” is based on the grand mystery that is N’Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don’t you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And speaking of which, black families of the top 1-5 centiles tend to score a few pts. lower than the white kids from the bottom 10 centile families.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    …the grand mystery that is N’Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don’t you?
     
    That depends on which 99th percentile you're referring to.

    Kinda like the list of greatest presidents always being printed upside-down.
    , @Untermenschen
    No mystery, it has been scienced that the gap is caused by racism and white privilege.
    , @Brutusale
    Mildly OT, but did you see the names in the Elmira, NY high school brawl? Jaziah, Diamonisha, Percephanie, JaQuea, etc.

    Fun fact taken from Jill Levoy's Ghettoside is that the apostrophes and offbeat spellings in their names make their owners' criminal records harder to trace.
  34. If you have lots of money and do everything wrong you can do well. If you have little money and do everything right you are still screwed. You have a few options. Don’t work!

    “The alternative to work isn’t just idleness. To be ludic is not to be quaaludic. As much as I treasure the pleasure of torpor, it’s never more rewarding than when it punctuates other pleasures and pastimes. Nor am I promoting the managed time-disciplined safety-valve called “leisure”; far from it. Leisure is nonwork for the sake of work. Leisure is the time spent recovering from work and in the frenzied but hopeless attempt to forget about work. Many people return from vacation so beat that they look forward to returning to work so they can rest up. The main difference between work and leisure is that work at least you get paid for your alienation and enervation.”

    http://www.primitivism.com/abolition.htm

    That’s how you are actually doing something by doing nothing while contributing to the leisure industry and having it be good for you. Leisure expands options.

    Read More
  35. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Some people say white folks have no ‘moral authority’ to speak about race(even if what they say is true), but everyone, even the greatest sinner, has the moral authority(indeed the moral responsibility) to speak the truth. Indeed, if a sinner is to be redeemed, it is only through the truth, not falsehood.

    Even the greatest sinner has the right and responsibility to say 2 + 2 = 4. For him to say otherwise or remain silent does no favor to him or the world.

    Read More
  36. @ countenance,

    But you do realize that all this hype over “student affluence test” is based on the grand mystery that is N’Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don’t you?

    Exactly. And whatever it is that Aiden’s parents do that N’Deshawntavious’s parents don’t do will be attributed to “white privilege”. Even ordinary things like staying out of jail, working at a paying job so they can provide their child with food, clothing and shelter and being a positive presence in their child’s life will be made to seem like monumental tasks that only parents lucky enough to be privileged can accomplish.

    Read More
  37. @anon
    I'd wager a guess that the correlation would be significantly stronger if the father's IQ could have been assessed as well. I'd assume that there are a significant number of affluent families where the father is the skilled/educated breadwinner.

    Notice how when you control for mother’s IQ but allow father’s IQ to vary, the income effect is sliced neatly in half, from 52 to 26.

    It’s almost as if these biologists might be on to something with their new fangled ideas of “heritability”.

    Read More
  38. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    I think you’re right — the lack of knowledge is a big deal among poorer but intelligent children and their families.

    Read More
  39. Very interesting points.

    Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

    Would this case ever exist today? I think not.

    …my father had a junior college 2-year diploma and my mother had only a high school diploma, so I’d be lower middle class, I guess.

    Same as my parents, but their three sons all graduated grad school, entered professions, and became self-made millionaires before 50.

    I have had a pleasant life, but looking back I can see wasted opportunities. After my freshman year at Rice I came home and got a summer job at Burger King. After my sophomore year, I repaired dental equipment…what did the Burger King and repair jobs do for me other than teach me not to be a fry cook or repairman?

    Similar experiences for me. I always held a part-time laborious job all through high school and undergrad – pumping gas, changing tires and, eventually, Radio Shack. Aside from the $2 per hour earnings, all these jobs did was make me tired during class, miss extra-curricular activities, and, aside from R.Shack, get dangerously close to some less-than-undesirables. I did learn how to work on cars and earn enough money to fund my own car. Oddly, fifteen years after the fact, the Radio Shack work experience generated some positive attention at my (unsuccessful) Microsoft interviews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

    Would this case ever exist today? I think not.
     
    Actually, it does. One of my relatives has an IQ in the 135 range (she took the SAT, and her score converts to a 135 IQ). She's a High School graduate, but she never went beyond freshman year in college.Drugs and booze.It took her a long time to straighten her life out.She ended up at a 35,000 a year civil service job.

    Outliers always exist
  40. The SAT is the great equalizer for kids with highly intelligent parents who are terrible with money.

    Read More
  41. @Steve Sailer
    Right: to be able to afford to live next to that bizarre Nippo-Tudor Cottage Frank Lloyd Wright monstrosity like my father did as a child, it helps these days to be gay and not have any children.

    “Nippo-Tudor”. Thank you, that’s perfectly apt. I once stood on the sidewalk staring at that house and couldn’t quite figure out how to describe it. I didn’t have a guidebook with me so I wasn’t even entirely sure if it was a genuine Lloyd house, or a spoof-caricature someone built after Wright just because it was in that neighborhood.
    I wouldn’t live in one of his places, but I love the window design tie I bought at the gift shop in the studio/museum.

    Read More
  42. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    Ha. That’s pretty cool. I had the exact same experience with the ACT and GRE, although I’m not sure if the ACT can be gamed as much as the SAT.

    Read More
  43. Anecdotal evidence:

    99th Percentile SAT here. For me, that was an essential part of getting myself into one of the “public ivies,” because I was a high school dropout putting his life back together.

    As I’ve said before, Mom grew up next to the railroad tracks in rural Georgia. She had a high school education, but it is noteworthy that even kids like her were forced to learn some Latin in those days.

    Dad was a middle class San Joaquin Valley boy whom the WWII Navy made into an engineer and officer. They pushed him rapidly through Cornell during wartime, and then U. of Texas, Austin.

    Dad’s skyrocket, post war career in industry gave me a comfortable childhood in affluent, landed suburbs, but he refused to pay for college when I was finally ready to go. It’s another long story, but I worked my way through, and that was better for me, I think. No debt, and I proved to myself it was possible. I am a business owner now, with time to waste on blogs like this, living at the same level my parents did.

    I believe both of my parents were highly intelligent to the point of neurosis, like me. Neither one of them had any financial or social advantages to speak of. WWII did steer my father in a certain direction though, in which he was aided by the Navy.

    Two of my childhood friends were only children. They are both more affluent now than the rest of my pals. One has achieved multimillionaire net worth. Undivided inheritance helped him put greater financial resources to use in his endeavors. I envied him when I was serving as executor of my father’s estate: I almost cried as I was selling off property and writing checks to beneficiaries who had no financial talents.

    I chose to have no children, but I strongly advise anyone desiring children to consider having only one and to devote all resources that heir. In the sad world ahead, he will need all the help he can get. Do not succumb to the desire to have extra children to counteract demographic trends. Your offspring will still find themselves among humanity’s bright minority, inhabiting rapidly diminishing European racial living space. They will do better, and help our people prosper more, by being as financially secure as they can be.

    It’s funny, but as we know generally the smarter people are, the fewer children they have. I think this sometimes reaches the point of zero. There is something astrophysical about that, like a black hole with gravity that is just too strong. That’s really how it is. Life exists in the middle, in a thin biosphere between dirt and sky. It just doesn’t grow in the stratosphere. Like trees in the high mountains.

    Read More
  44. @Steve Sailer
    Frank Lloyd Wright's Moore House is next door to the house my father grew up in from 1917-1929. Wright designed it as a Tudor cottage in 1895, but then burned down on Christmas Day in 1922. When Wright got back from designing the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, he rebuilt it on a larger scale as a Japanese-looking Tudor cottage.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_G._Moore_House

    Shortly after rebuilding Chicago’s Moore House, Wright turned his attention to Western PA’s “Falling Water”, a summer home specifically designed for local wealthy elites the Kaufmans (of Kaufmans, a local/regional shopping store a la Gimbels, or Macys). The Kaufmans specifically wanted their summer home to be built with a view of the waterfall that runs through the area, instead Wright built the house right on top of the falls. I’d have refused to pay his commission for not giving his patrons what they specifically asked for.

    It is made almost entirely of stone and is surrounded by large trees on all sides. Perfect magnet for a lightning storm of which Western PA tends to get quite few of during that time of yr.

    Falling Water later passed to Jr., who never married (?) who then left it to the state of PA which turned it into a state landmark or tourist trap.

    Interesting summer home if it had been built near the desert. Doesnt make much sense to build it right smack dab in center of area completely surrounded by long tall trees which tend to attract lightning.

    Read More
  45. @countenance
    I always enjoy socially scientific speculation in this medium.

    But you do realize that all this hype over "student affluence test" is based on the grand mystery that is N'Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don't you?

    And speaking of which, black families of the top 1-5 centiles tend to score a few pts. lower than the white kids from the bottom 10 centile families.

    Read More
  46. @SPMoore8
    Schopenhauer used to say that boys got their brains from their mothers but their character from their fathers. I don't recall if he thought the same about girls or if the genders switched (of course he had derogatory opinions about women in general.)

    Naturally I am more inclined to think about these things (from whence intelligence comes) after reading stuff about HBD and IQ. So, introspectively, I think the mental quickness part (and the retentive part) is innate, and therefore is either genetic or fortuitous, but the rest of it depends on circumstances. Those circumstances don't involve status, good health, wealth or even a stable home environment (we had none of these.) What I have seen is that those circumstances involve a home and extended family environment that sets the bar for intellectual competency at a certain level, so that it is normal for the child to aspire and to exceed that level. In practical terms, then, it usually means the women in the family determine how "smart" a child is going to be. It's not a question of "tiger mothering" its just the standard in different households.

    Schopenhauer used to say that boys got their brains from their mothers

    Yes, this is somewhat the case. Intelligence genes on the X chromosome only come from a boy’s mother. This factor alone suggests for males that about 55% of intelligence comes from mothers, or 52.5% across both sexes. (The X chromosome is large, while the Y chromosome is very small)

    For both sexes, mitochondrial DNA comes from mothers. Finally, the same childhood environmental factors that can depress the IQ of young girls will have some residual effect on the prenatal environment of their children, including IQ.

    Read More
  47. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    One example of this is the MCAT.

    This is the exam to get into medical school. To actually get in if you are white or asian, you need a score that is higher than 30. A 30 is ~80th percentile, and the people taking the test are generally college students and graduates who want to be doctors…the competition is pretty stiff.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    There are many intelligent, hard working proles who get straight A’s in college but bomb the MCATs because they are not clever enough to figure out this is what they need to do. The corollary is also true, there are many elites with sub par GPAs who do understand this, do their test prep and pad their resumes, who succeed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EriK

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.
     
    Agree that test prep is key, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Expensive test prep materials does not necessarily translate into effective test prep materials for everyone. Different strokes...
    , @syonredux

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.
     
    That might be true for the MCAT (I never took it), but it is most definitely not true for, say, the GRE.As I mentioned elsewhere, my GRE prep involved taking a sample test once (98th percentile on the Verbal, 98th percentile on the subject), and then taking the test for real (98th percentile on the Verbal, 98th percentile on the subject).
  48. In assessing the meaning of this, it is important to be realistic about the financial position of families making $125,000 who are also raising children. They were in the top quartile of income distribution in 2013, but they probably live in an unremarkable home in a middle-class neighborhood and send their children to public schools.

    Welcome to my bubble, Mr. Murray.

    We have a family income slightly higher than $125k. We’re in the Bay Area, so we live in half of a very nice old historic house in an upper-middle class neighborhood (we don’t need to padlock the garage closed, and we can leave the kids’ bikes out in the backyard).

    If we had that same income and lived in Utah or Iowa or North Carolina, we’d have a much bigger house and wouldn’t hesitate to put our kids in a Catholic school if the local public schools weren’t working for us.

    Read More
  49. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    These days I would have plotted to get internships in Silicon Valley or D.C. or Wall Street and had my parents pay my rent.

    Right, if you had been born a generation later, I could easily see you – tall, head for numbers, articulate – with an easy path to Wall St., going into research perhaps, given your interest and background, and eventually becoming a head of research and managing director somewhere with a huge salary. You wouldn’t go into researching consumer behavior like you did because researching financial markets, equities, global macro investing strategy or whatever would be at least as intellectually simulating and way more lucrative.

    Read More
  50. OT, but perennial: SLC gives evidence that Steve is right and Richard Florida is wrong. Pink follows green, not vice versa.

    Not that Yahoo News comes out and says so much!

    Read More
  51. @countenance
    I always enjoy socially scientific speculation in this medium.

    But you do realize that all this hype over "student affluence test" is based on the grand mystery that is N'Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don't you?

    …the grand mystery that is N’Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don’t you?

    That depends on which 99th percentile you’re referring to.

    Kinda like the list of greatest presidents always being printed upside-down.

    Read More
  52. I’m afraid that no matter how loudly we broadcast this information it will fall on deaf ears. Lately I’ve become privy to conversations among social-justice types in technical professions — the ones who got degrees in useful things but still got their politics by osmosis from the campus crazies — and while they tend to deftly avoid discussions of intelligence whenever they can, they’re preparing their defenses by starting to define even innate, genetic components of intelligence as just another form of privilege. Good example here: http://pgbovine.net/implicit-privilege.htm (“We often forget all of the implicit privileges that we enjoy due to products of sheer luck, most notably our genes and childhood environment.”)

    We used to call it “gifted” – why not just stick with that? Both “gifted” and “privileged” already connote the idea of something unearned. But gifts come from God or nature, and privileges come from society. If you redefine gifts as privileges, you can justify more invasive interventions in society.

    Read More
  53. Marty [AKA "wick"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @SPMoore8
    Schopenhauer used to say that boys got their brains from their mothers but their character from their fathers. I don't recall if he thought the same about girls or if the genders switched (of course he had derogatory opinions about women in general.)

    Naturally I am more inclined to think about these things (from whence intelligence comes) after reading stuff about HBD and IQ. So, introspectively, I think the mental quickness part (and the retentive part) is innate, and therefore is either genetic or fortuitous, but the rest of it depends on circumstances. Those circumstances don't involve status, good health, wealth or even a stable home environment (we had none of these.) What I have seen is that those circumstances involve a home and extended family environment that sets the bar for intellectual competency at a certain level, so that it is normal for the child to aspire and to exceed that level. In practical terms, then, it usually means the women in the family determine how "smart" a child is going to be. It's not a question of "tiger mothering" its just the standard in different households.

    I’m a chronic ‘noticer’ like Steve, not as smart but always noticing. My mom is a militant non-noticer, not out of politics but out of innate niceness. She’s a Republican voter who gets angry when distinctions are pointed out and doesn’t believe Mexicans get free health care or school meals. Oh, and she thinks Michelle is attractive. I’ve told her to change parties but so far no luck.

    Read More
    • Replies: @carol
    Your mom would find the same mentality in the GOP as well. Only selected Fox stories are notice-worthy.
  54. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    I agree. I grew up in similar circumstances in the South and had no idea that there was a way to prep for any of those tests..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I find that somewhat hard to believe. Almost every high school has at least one guidance counselor. Test prep books have been around forever. No one I knew in my rural NJ HS in the '70s took a test prep course - I don't think such a thing even existed in that area at that time. But, I remember getting a Barron's SAT book with practice SAT's. These large paperback volumes have been around forever.

    When it came time for my kids to take the test, I got them the official test prep volume which is now published by the College Board, which consists of 10 previously administered real SATs. If you are bright and take several (or preferably all) of these practice tests under timed conditions and learn from your mistakes, you will do about as well as your education and intelligence will allow you to do without having to take one of those courses.
  55. @Jonah
    This is very astute and under-considered by sociologists looking at longitudinal data like these. Given hypergamy - the propensity for women to "marry up", and the willingness of men to "marry down" in favor of looks or other non IQ traits - I would bet Murray's point would be amplified by if you looked at father's IQ instead of mother's. Wish he had the #s for dads/SAT rather than moms/PIAT. Would be a stronger and more striking piece.

    By the way, I doubt I'm the only person here whose father was smarter than my mother. It's probably true for over 60% of the population but you never hear about it. For people with one parent SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than the other, I bet it's Dads over Moms 10-1.

    And yes, the math checks out. Dumb, low status men, and ugly smart women are more frequently shut out of the marriage game than their gender opposites.

    You probably have a point. But Murray and Herrnstein did think about this in The Bell Curve, and one of their assortative mating arguments was that high-IQ men were more likely to marry high-IQ women than before. Murray repeated this in Coming Apart I believe.

    Read More
  56. @syonredux
    Off-topic: An article on teen hearthrobs:



    Then add in the middle-school preference for boys who look soft: big eyes, round cheeks, full lips, thick hair. Muscles and chest fur are scary -- tweens favor male stars who look like their idea of a hot date is a milkshake and a cuddle. The No. 1 insult boys in my eighth grade had for Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Renfro, River Phoenix, Corey Haim, Macaulay Culkin, Edward Furlong and, yes, Jonathan Brandis was, "He looks like a girl." Which was especially hard to deny when Brandis came to fame playing a soccer star who dressed in drag and called himself Martha.


    How many of those teen heartthrobs transitioned into adult stars? One. DiCaprio acknowledged the cull in a 2010 interview with Rolling Stone. "My two main competitors in the beginning, the blond-haired kids I went to audition with, one hung himself and the other died of a heroin overdose," he said. The suicide is Brandis. The OD could have been any one of several.

    Four thousand fan letters every week aside, it's tough being a girly-looking guy with your face all over the newsstands, even if the articles themselves are nice. For one, your face probably won't age into something masculine enough to play adult roles and action heroes -- even DiCaprio has had to disguise his soft features with a thick layer of fat. Worse, teen girls are fickle. When they get a new crush, those letters stop.
     
    http://www.laweekly.com/arts/jonathan-brandis-how-life-after-teen-stardom-can-take-a-wrong-turn-4183323

    Kurt Russell was also a child actor who successfully transitioned into a successful Hollywood career as an adult.

    Read More
  57. Leftist causes like this one, like the gender wage gap, and like racial profiling, would never get off the ground in a world where everyone understood multivariate regression. Sigh.

    Read More
  58. Nick Katz, a world-class mathematician at Princeton, got twin 650′s on his SAT’s back in 1960. Told me he thought that was good enough. How do you explain that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    That he wasn't being truthful? That he neglected to mention that he took them when he was 12? That he made no effort to study the format in advance? I can understand 650 verbal from a mathematician but someone who has the ability to be a world class mathematician would find the math problems on the SAT to be trivial.
    , @D. K.
    My former major professor at Purdue, Jim Jaccard, who has had a brilliant career as an academic psychologist, did not get into Purdue himself, when applying to graduate schools. He used to joke that he took the position there, as a young Ph.D., just to poke the department in its institutional eye for being the only program to reject him, years before.

    While I was working there, though, before entering the graduate program myself, I became very close to the Graduate Admissions secretary, who was something of a surrogate mother to me, and I learned that she was storing her file drawer for graduate-school applicants in my own workspace.

    The applicants' qualifications and application details were noted on standard-size index cards. One day, I went browsing through it and, sure enough, I came across Jim Jaccard's card, from many years before.

    When I saw what his GRE scores were, I was shocked that they were so mediocre, for someone who was being put up for tenure, before the age of 30. I do not recall, now, what his actual scores were, but I do know that, when I subsequently took the GRE myself, a year or so later, I easily beat his scores.

    It surprised me, then, because he was becoming my mentor in the field; in retrospect, it outright shocks me, because his stellar academic career never could have been predicted, based solely on his standardized test scores.

    As I noted here before, a few months back, I consider him one of the most competent people that I have ever met, in their respective fields of study.
    , @Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the '60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    Also, the concept of grade inflation didn't exist, so SATs were used as confirmation about the validity of grades and class rank of the applicant, and so lacked the high-pressure scoring atmosphere of the last couple decades, i.e. the rise of test prep programs.
    , @Anonymous
    I took several classes from Nick Katz and maxed out my SATs. I assure you that he is much smarter than I am.
  59. Well, I think the SAT-is-the-vehicle-used-by-priviliged-students-to-get-unfair-advantage-over-lower-scorers has left the station. There’s no need to even discuss it anymore after today. I accept the fact that high scoring, middle-class (and above) HS students will not be accepted by elite universities unless they have proven genius-level-exam results, research papers published, patents pending on their HS resumes, or they play a NCAA Div 1 sport and were the state champion: team or individual.

    The problem with this argument is that it is really over, “so history,” a la the 80′s phrase. Also, the national obsession of education reformers about the validity and the relevance of the SAT is only focused about admittance into American elite universities, not whether an accountant’s son with high SAT’s got into Witchita State. In fact, there is some talk in the MSM to force schools like Witchita State not to give merit money to such students, since that is also unfair to reformers.

    So, it is always about the SAT’s but only with regard to the top 20-30 schools in the U.S. News & WR. And, as I have said in the past, HS students now are increasingly going for the ACT. I’ve been told it is less stressful, more logical…and, more importantly, it can’t be gamed by test prep companies and tutors. Of course, universities don’t want to make a stink about possible “test cheaters” since they don’t want to diss large groups of applicants (foreign students) who are rumored to be gaining entrance to universities without actually having the innate skills due to these shady test scores.

    SAT, out of desperation, since so many students (all the suburban students on the coasts; midwest and south have always gone ACT) are now paying for, and only taking the ACT. So the College Board is frantically, bringing out yet another new SAT format because the rival ACT is taking away $$$$ from them. . Students are already spreading the rumor that the SAT will be “dumbed-down” further, and, that they will all do even better on it. Teenagers are very savvy and cynical. Plus, to name a few billionaires who dropped out of college or never went: Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg, Dorsey…list is long; isn’t lost on these teenagers…whether the SAT/elite schools matter anymore.

    The idea of elite universities practicing a kind of socialism always invades my thoughts: ‘give a leg up at our illustrious institution to many non-affluent/n0n-privileged groups because the high IQ kids will get to the top at any “joe-regular” U anyway with all their privilege, and… ta-daa! income inequality will magically narrow.’ However, what are the retention and graduation stats of students admitted with low scores, particularly in the highly urgent STEM sector majors? Now there’s something that should be on the conscious of everyone interested in education in our government. Does it not worry Americans that the Chinese (one of several countries) will do everything possible for their brightest students (in fact, many are taking the spots of Americans in elite schools because US does not exclusively chose students with the highest SAT’s) to study at the finest universities in the USA? Doing well in STEM fields is a competitive environment…winner takes all.

    A new development: The new vehicle for universities and the service academies is to look at the PSAT. That is now the new IQ score they will use clandestinely, to lure the 97th+ percentile scorers to their institution. It’s kind of fascinating, and, you heard it here first. They develop a line of communication early with these types of kids, almost reassuring them that their application will be a priority when the time comes. You gotta have a kid in HS to know this! These institutions give these kids codes to use, but really no e-mails that can be hacked, only snail mail. I mean, the kids that score in the 99th are the unicorns everyone wants to land at their institution.

    But, like I said, I have given up speculating about the SAT since I have seen too many close-to-genius level kids NOT be accepted to elite U’s because they are seen as privileged…even if they are just at that $150,000/year group; not exactly rolling in the dough. And, I have witnessed such kids get to where they would go with their talents naturally anyway. But, I am a proponent of the ACT if you have to take a test.

    Many elite universities keep pontificating about disregarding and possibly eliminating the SAT altogether. But what is the point of that, how is that beneficial to them? And, when thinking about these elite schools again, why can’t kids check a box to state they never (force them to sign an affadavit) went to test-prep centers or paid for any SAT tutoring? My sons would have loved that! they hated anything “extra” on top of their myriad sports, extracurriculars, interests.

    As far as only children, my mother, whose high IQ was probably the same as my father’s, was an only child from modest means (but did get a lot of attention – her sister died from malnutrition in WW2)…and my father, a younger kid out of 7 grew up in an eccentric, chaotic, wealthy entrepreneur’s family, but a loving family. Love seemed to come in spades for them from both of their parents…and, I’ve tried to do that for my sons.

    And, my mother, and a couple of my friends (engineers, computer scientists, microbiologists) break the idea of the ugly smart woman…they would more likely have inspired geeks to honor them by putting posters on their dorm room walls like the one of Farrah Fawcett long ago.

    I will say that as an immigrant, who learned English in 1st grade, that multiple languages, art and music played a role in my and my brother’s high SAT’s. There seems to be a new focus on bringing back the arts to “failing schools.” In fact, I used to teach English to other immigrant students in 2nd-4th grade at one of Brooklyn’s PS’s! Reminds me: I should send a retroactive invoice to Mayor DeBlasio!

    SAT’s and the endless, useless discussion about it, should simply fade because no one will ever agree to its value or purpose. And, there should be more discussion over how do we make STEM kids a priority…a national resource that should be supported. I mean, really, no matter what society does, there will always be a minority of kids interested in STEM (not including medical professions).

    Read More
  60. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    Pick up a Korean-language Sunday newspaper from Palisades Park, NJ, and you will find a huge education section. In it you will see ad after ad of test prep centers along with former students and their SAT scores and which colleges they were accepted to. No doubt Koreans might, on average, have a little IQ advantage, but their success is 95% brute force hard work. Same with Jews, who are neurotically hardworking. If one truly accepted the statistics and IQ distribution, East Asians and Jews are over-represented in academic achievement, big time. Unless, of course, there is more to it that simply IQ. But I’ll bet Murray has personal reasons for not wanting to accept this. He was raised by a schoolmarm and he strikes me as being as serious at the age of 10 as he is now. He studied history and social science. He failed out of linear algebra. But of course, his getting into Harvard and MIT was due solely to his high IQ.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Above a local Korean supermarket there was a billboard for a Korean SAT cram school called (optimistically) Yale Academy (Yale sued them and it's now Y2 Academy). The tagline was " With much pain comes much gain". They were PROMISING to cause their students pain and this was a selling feature in their culture. Obviously a ripoff on "No pain, no gain" but the spin was different - they were promising not just pain but MUCH pain. And not in the context of physical exercise but in an academic setting.
    , @Anonymous
    Murray flunked Linear Algebra? Really? It is a by far the easiest advanced math course because it's well...Algebra. Nothing compared to Mathematical Statistics or Differential Equations or Vector Calculus.

    If you look at all of the Policy nitwits that are released from Harvard Yard to infect the rest of us with dopey ideas, most probably can't add 2 and 2.
  61. @Luke Lea
    Nick Katz, a world-class mathematician at Princeton, got twin 650's on his SAT's back in 1960. Told me he thought that was good enough. How do you explain that?

    That he wasn’t being truthful? That he neglected to mention that he took them when he was 12? That he made no effort to study the format in advance? I can understand 650 verbal from a mathematician but someone who has the ability to be a world class mathematician would find the math problems on the SAT to be trivial.

    Read More
  62. @NorthOfTheOneOhOne
    I agree. I grew up in similar circumstances in the South and had no idea that there was a way to prep for any of those tests..

    I find that somewhat hard to believe. Almost every high school has at least one guidance counselor. Test prep books have been around forever. No one I knew in my rural NJ HS in the ’70s took a test prep course – I don’t think such a thing even existed in that area at that time. But, I remember getting a Barron’s SAT book with practice SAT’s. These large paperback volumes have been around forever.

    When it came time for my kids to take the test, I got them the official test prep volume which is now published by the College Board, which consists of 10 previously administered real SATs. If you are bright and take several (or preferably all) of these practice tests under timed conditions and learn from your mistakes, you will do about as well as your education and intelligence will allow you to do without having to take one of those courses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim
    SAT tests were not a big deal long ago when I was a kid. I think I just walked into school one day and learned we were going to take something called an SAT test.
    , @Anonymous
    Haha that shows what you know. I visited my "counselor" in my senior year in my huge (2100+ student) high school (early 1970's) for my two minute appointment, and she said "...oh, you should go to college... here you need to take this SAT test." And when I asked what preparation was needed she said "Um... it says on this paper.. get a good night's sleep, eat a good breakfast and bring two number 2 pencils to the test."

    So I did that. That test had all kinds of question formats that I thought were interesting, and had never seen before. I spent a lot of time being curious about the test and some of the reading was interesting. Anyway, I filled in lots of the circles on the answer sheet.

    After the test, we were asked to fill out a questionnaire that asked questions like "How would you compare yourself to other students in math? Are you above average, average or below average?" I thought about it and decided "Average" since I certainly knew kids who were better and some who were worse. I answered the rest of the questions the same way.

    So, a couple of months later, I'm back for another 2 minute counseling session, and she looks at my stuff and then looks at me and says "Can you tell me why you think you're "Average" in Math and English and so on, when you scored in the 99th percentile on the SAT?"

    I thought for a second and then laughed. All of my friends were the National Merit scholars and so forth. Sampling bias.

    When I told my friends that I didn't study for the SAT, they looked at me like I was crazy and said "Of course you study for the SAT." It turns out that their parents were professors and lawyers and doctors.

    My parents, OTOH, were alcoholics who sometimes had to crawl up the stairs at night to get into bed.

    So, there you go. I guess the joke's on me after all.

  63. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    I signed up for the GRE. I took the GRE sample test.Scored 98th percentile on the verbal (the part that I cared about; I’m a humanities guy).That was the extent of my prep.When I took the test for real, I scored 98th percentile on the verbal.

    Read More
  64. @Jack D
    I find that somewhat hard to believe. Almost every high school has at least one guidance counselor. Test prep books have been around forever. No one I knew in my rural NJ HS in the '70s took a test prep course - I don't think such a thing even existed in that area at that time. But, I remember getting a Barron's SAT book with practice SAT's. These large paperback volumes have been around forever.

    When it came time for my kids to take the test, I got them the official test prep volume which is now published by the College Board, which consists of 10 previously administered real SATs. If you are bright and take several (or preferably all) of these practice tests under timed conditions and learn from your mistakes, you will do about as well as your education and intelligence will allow you to do without having to take one of those courses.

    SAT tests were not a big deal long ago when I was a kid. I think I just walked into school one day and learned we were going to take something called an SAT test.

    Read More
  65. @Luke Lea
    Nick Katz, a world-class mathematician at Princeton, got twin 650's on his SAT's back in 1960. Told me he thought that was good enough. How do you explain that?

    My former major professor at Purdue, Jim Jaccard, who has had a brilliant career as an academic psychologist, did not get into Purdue himself, when applying to graduate schools. He used to joke that he took the position there, as a young Ph.D., just to poke the department in its institutional eye for being the only program to reject him, years before.

    While I was working there, though, before entering the graduate program myself, I became very close to the Graduate Admissions secretary, who was something of a surrogate mother to me, and I learned that she was storing her file drawer for graduate-school applicants in my own workspace.

    The applicants’ qualifications and application details were noted on standard-size index cards. One day, I went browsing through it and, sure enough, I came across Jim Jaccard’s card, from many years before.

    When I saw what his GRE scores were, I was shocked that they were so mediocre, for someone who was being put up for tenure, before the age of 30. I do not recall, now, what his actual scores were, but I do know that, when I subsequently took the GRE myself, a year or so later, I easily beat his scores.

    It surprised me, then, because he was becoming my mentor in the field; in retrospect, it outright shocks me, because his stellar academic career never could have been predicted, based solely on his standardized test scores.

    As I noted here before, a few months back, I consider him one of the most competent people that I have ever met, in their respective fields of study.

    Read More
  66. @E. Rekshun
    Very interesting points.

    Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

    Would this case ever exist today? I think not.

    ...my father had a junior college 2-year diploma and my mother had only a high school diploma, so I’d be lower middle class, I guess.

    Same as my parents, but their three sons all graduated grad school, entered professions, and became self-made millionaires before 50.

    I have had a pleasant life, but looking back I can see wasted opportunities. After my freshman year at Rice I came home and got a summer job at Burger King. After my sophomore year, I repaired dental equipment...what did the Burger King and repair jobs do for me other than teach me not to be a fry cook or repairman?

    Similar experiences for me. I always held a part-time laborious job all through high school and undergrad - pumping gas, changing tires and, eventually, Radio Shack. Aside from the $2 per hour earnings, all these jobs did was make me tired during class, miss extra-curricular activities, and, aside from R.Shack, get dangerously close to some less-than-undesirables. I did learn how to work on cars and earn enough money to fund my own car. Oddly, fifteen years after the fact, the Radio Shack work experience generated some positive attention at my (unsuccessful) Microsoft interviews.

    Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

    Would this case ever exist today? I think not.

    Actually, it does. One of my relatives has an IQ in the 135 range (she took the SAT, and her score converts to a 135 IQ). She’s a High School graduate, but she never went beyond freshman year in college.Drugs and booze.It took her a long time to straighten her life out.She ended up at a 35,000 a year civil service job.

    Outliers always exist

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    There seems to be a lot of assumptions about High IQ = High Education = High Income as thought it is a matter of course.

    This is not how I have seen it played out, especially for women and especially for women in previous eras. High IQ can translate to high levels of education, but also only with the caveat that people who are highly intelligent are much more prone to be introspective, and thus socially awkward, and thus likely to suffer from all kinds of pathologies. Furthermore, high education doesn't necessarily lead to high income, and I don't even have in mind the Ph.D.'s who are still living at home.

    Among other things, I worked in the financial sector for decades, and most of my peers and superiors were totally into their work, 24/7 as the saying goes. All of them were extremely bright, 1% easily, but they were not necessarily well educated (as a humanist might use the term) and had no outside intellectual interests. Sometimes that would be due to the fact that they were trying to put their families first, or they were seeking status (second generation immigrants are hungry people), or security via money, or what have you. However the net effect was always the same: they made a lot of money, but rarely used their minds for any interests outside of making money. Not the life for many people.
    , @Marina
    It'll probably be us at some point. I'm Mensa qualified and my husband is certainly smarter than I am. We're young, but frugal enough that we've got sufficient retirement investments to just let them ride for four more decades and we'll be fine. Right now I make decent money and my husband makes very good money, but I'm leaving work with my first child's birth and my husband will probably go back to working for very little money in the arts. Add several children, and we'll be nominally poor, largely by choice. I'm a little confused about why we should continue to work or fingers to the bone to fund a government that hates us when there are more attractive alternatives.

    Also, how are they calculating income? If the study used AGI, then their actual wages could be quite a bit higher. Between two 401ks, two IRAs, health insurance, FSA contributions, etc., you can end up fairly low income on your 1040 if you are in a position to save a lot.
  67. @Nathan Wartooth
    But not for the reasons that you think.

    Women don't want to marry a guy who makes less than they do. The ugly smart women who make a lot of money are in the worst position of all.

    No, I’m with you. That’s exactly the reason I think.

    Read More
  68. @syonredux

    Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

    Would this case ever exist today? I think not.
     
    Actually, it does. One of my relatives has an IQ in the 135 range (she took the SAT, and her score converts to a 135 IQ). She's a High School graduate, but she never went beyond freshman year in college.Drugs and booze.It took her a long time to straighten her life out.She ended up at a 35,000 a year civil service job.

    Outliers always exist

    There seems to be a lot of assumptions about High IQ = High Education = High Income as thought it is a matter of course.

    This is not how I have seen it played out, especially for women and especially for women in previous eras. High IQ can translate to high levels of education, but also only with the caveat that people who are highly intelligent are much more prone to be introspective, and thus socially awkward, and thus likely to suffer from all kinds of pathologies. Furthermore, high education doesn’t necessarily lead to high income, and I don’t even have in mind the Ph.D.’s who are still living at home.

    Among other things, I worked in the financial sector for decades, and most of my peers and superiors were totally into their work, 24/7 as the saying goes. All of them were extremely bright, 1% easily, but they were not necessarily well educated (as a humanist might use the term) and had no outside intellectual interests. Sometimes that would be due to the fact that they were trying to put their families first, or they were seeking status (second generation immigrants are hungry people), or security via money, or what have you. However the net effect was always the same: they made a lot of money, but rarely used their minds for any interests outside of making money. Not the life for many people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Once, when I was in a group of highly intelligent Wall Street bankers, all graduates of top-notch business schools, I made a passing reference to the year 1066. None of them had the slightest idea what I was talking about. I forever after bore the nickname, "The Trivia King."
    , @Abe Humbles
    There seems to be a bell curve relationshjp between IQ and executive functioning, one I have seen often in the military and business. As one moves up the IQ scale, effectiveness and leadership increase until somewhere around IQ=125, at which point it declines rapidly as you move higher. It is frequently remarked upon among military psychologists. This may be due to higher tendencies among intelligent people toward introspection, or greater curiosity or greater tendency among high-IQ folks to observe and explore than to decide and effect.
  69. @syonredux
    Off-topic: An article on teen hearthrobs:



    Then add in the middle-school preference for boys who look soft: big eyes, round cheeks, full lips, thick hair. Muscles and chest fur are scary -- tweens favor male stars who look like their idea of a hot date is a milkshake and a cuddle. The No. 1 insult boys in my eighth grade had for Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Renfro, River Phoenix, Corey Haim, Macaulay Culkin, Edward Furlong and, yes, Jonathan Brandis was, "He looks like a girl." Which was especially hard to deny when Brandis came to fame playing a soccer star who dressed in drag and called himself Martha.


    How many of those teen heartthrobs transitioned into adult stars? One. DiCaprio acknowledged the cull in a 2010 interview with Rolling Stone. "My two main competitors in the beginning, the blond-haired kids I went to audition with, one hung himself and the other died of a heroin overdose," he said. The suicide is Brandis. The OD could have been any one of several.

    Four thousand fan letters every week aside, it's tough being a girly-looking guy with your face all over the newsstands, even if the articles themselves are nice. For one, your face probably won't age into something masculine enough to play adult roles and action heroes -- even DiCaprio has had to disguise his soft features with a thick layer of fat. Worse, teen girls are fickle. When they get a new crush, those letters stop.
     
    http://www.laweekly.com/arts/jonathan-brandis-how-life-after-teen-stardom-can-take-a-wrong-turn-4183323

    How many of those teen heartthrobs transitioned into adult stars?

    And, remember, David Cassidy, Davey Jones, and Leif Garret

    Read More
  70. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Levittown which was mostly working class. Few of the parents had graduated from college. I attended an all boys Catholic high school. Good education. Took the SAT stone cold. Absolutely no test prep because I had no idea you could actually study for it. Nobody told me anything. Scored in the 75th percentile.

    Years later I'm thinking about getting an MBA, so sign up for the GMAT. I knew better then and bought a "Teach Yourself the GMAT" book and took a practice test at my desk every day after work for a month. With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the "tricks" and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    My point is that there are probably plenty of non-rich young people out there who are unaware of test prep like I was for the SAT. The rich kids have test prep drilled into them at an early age. Based on my own experience, to think that is not a primary driver of a higher percentile test score is ludicrous.

    The correlations Murray should use are test score versus test prep intensity and test prep intensity versus income.

    With my first practice test I scored in the 55th percentile. So that was my stone cold baseline. As I did more practice tests and reviewed the answers, I started to figure out the “tricks” and the repetitive logic they were using and my practice test scores steadily improved.

    When I took the actual test I scored in the 96th percentile.

    Same scenario for me. During high school junior year (1980), my classmates and I got a mostly unexpected announcement, something to the effect, “remember to show up at the gymnasium on Saturday at 8:00am for the SAT.” There was no prep whatsoever, and I scored in the 80th percentile. Then at age 22 I took the GMAT cold and scored at the 60th percentile, but didn’t enroll anywhere. Ten years later, after a job layoff, I got serious and studied GMAT prep books and self tests four hours a day for eight weeks, then took the GMAT and scored a 720 at the 98th percentile. Still didn’t get me into Stanford, but it did earn me a 50% tuition scholarship at the University of Florida and membership into MENSA. LOL!

    Read More
  71. @countenance
    I always enjoy socially scientific speculation in this medium.

    But you do realize that all this hype over "student affluence test" is based on the grand mystery that is N'Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don't you?

    No mystery, it has been scienced that the gap is caused by racism and white privilege.

    Read More
  72. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Reminds me of this ol’ post: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/04/slate-yes-iq-really-matters.html .

    I’m one of those people in the upper 1% that has benefitted greatly from high scores on the SAT and other standardized tests. However, I fit pretty cleanly into a category you’d expect to do well: significant Jewish ancestry, stable family, upbringing in an affluent coastal town, etc. I did know plenty of high-scoring geniuses in college that came from less advantaged backgrounds (solidly middle class).

    Slightly OT–if Steve posted anything about this report then I missed it: http://www.ets.org/s/research/30079/asc-millennials-and-the-future.pdf .

    Read More
  73. @Marty
    I'm a chronic 'noticer' like Steve, not as smart but always noticing. My mom is a militant non-noticer, not out of politics but out of innate niceness. She's a Republican voter who gets angry when distinctions are pointed out and doesn't believe Mexicans get free health care or school meals. Oh, and she thinks Michelle is attractive. I've told her to change parties but so far no luck.

    Your mom would find the same mentality in the GOP as well. Only selected Fox stories are notice-worthy.

    Read More
  74. “Beyond $200,000, PIAT scores go down as income increases.”

    Quite a few athletes and other stars of society at top income I guess?

    And you have to go with mothers for lineage, who can be sure of paternity?

    Read More
  75. @Luke Lea
    Nick Katz, a world-class mathematician at Princeton, got twin 650's on his SAT's back in 1960. Told me he thought that was good enough. How do you explain that?

    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the ’60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    Also, the concept of grade inflation didn’t exist, so SATs were used as confirmation about the validity of grades and class rank of the applicant, and so lacked the high-pressure scoring atmosphere of the last couple decades, i.e. the rise of test prep programs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gringo
    83. Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the ’60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    That does not agree with my high school class in the '60s, with about 170 graduates. One guy got 800 in SAT-Math, and two got 800 in SAT-Verbal. Off the top of my head I can think of 9 who got 750 or above on the Math SAT. Yes, this was a bubble of sort: while 2% nationwide got Merit Scholarship Letters of Commendation or Finalist categories, 10% of my high school class did.
    From The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:

    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test........

    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

     
    From a high school class of 170, 9 or so scored 750 above the SAT-Math, compared four decades later with 244 Blacks out of 150,000 nation wide. Don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good.

    BTW, I came from a time when one didn't study for the SAT. I took the GRE twice in the three decades after high school, and for what it's worth, scored higher than on the SAT. Without much study.

    But as someone with high SAT scores, my take on it is that while they may help, anything worth achieving will occur only with a lot of work- blood sweat and tears, as it were. Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score. At the same time, I doubt that many STEM professionals have SAT-Math scores of below 500- SAT counts for something.
  76. @Anonymous
    Pick up a Korean-language Sunday newspaper from Palisades Park, NJ, and you will find a huge education section. In it you will see ad after ad of test prep centers along with former students and their SAT scores and which colleges they were accepted to. No doubt Koreans might, on average, have a little IQ advantage, but their success is 95% brute force hard work. Same with Jews, who are neurotically hardworking. If one truly accepted the statistics and IQ distribution, East Asians and Jews are over-represented in academic achievement, big time. Unless, of course, there is more to it that simply IQ. But I'll bet Murray has personal reasons for not wanting to accept this. He was raised by a schoolmarm and he strikes me as being as serious at the age of 10 as he is now. He studied history and social science. He failed out of linear algebra. But of course, his getting into Harvard and MIT was due solely to his high IQ.

    Above a local Korean supermarket there was a billboard for a Korean SAT cram school called (optimistically) Yale Academy (Yale sued them and it’s now Y2 Academy). The tagline was ” With much pain comes much gain”. They were PROMISING to cause their students pain and this was a selling feature in their culture. Obviously a ripoff on “No pain, no gain” but the spin was different – they were promising not just pain but MUCH pain. And not in the context of physical exercise but in an academic setting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    they were promising not just pain but MUCH pain
     
    Anyone who's been through an elite military selection training process knows that inflicting "much pain" is a device designed to break down the willpower of the selectees, a tool that separates the men from the boys.

    I am not as convinced of its applicability to academics, however.
  77. @syonredux

    Jane’s family has an income of just $40,000 and mom has only a high-school diploma. But mom’s IQ is 135, putting her in the top 1% of the IQ distribution.

    Would this case ever exist today? I think not.
     
    Actually, it does. One of my relatives has an IQ in the 135 range (she took the SAT, and her score converts to a 135 IQ). She's a High School graduate, but she never went beyond freshman year in college.Drugs and booze.It took her a long time to straighten her life out.She ended up at a 35,000 a year civil service job.

    Outliers always exist

    It’ll probably be us at some point. I’m Mensa qualified and my husband is certainly smarter than I am. We’re young, but frugal enough that we’ve got sufficient retirement investments to just let them ride for four more decades and we’ll be fine. Right now I make decent money and my husband makes very good money, but I’m leaving work with my first child’s birth and my husband will probably go back to working for very little money in the arts. Add several children, and we’ll be nominally poor, largely by choice. I’m a little confused about why we should continue to work or fingers to the bone to fund a government that hates us when there are more attractive alternatives.

    Also, how are they calculating income? If the study used AGI, then their actual wages could be quite a bit higher. Between two 401ks, two IRAs, health insurance, FSA contributions, etc., you can end up fairly low income on your 1040 if you are in a position to save a lot.

    Read More
  78. @Stan Adams
    It should be noted that the act of taking the SAT is a status marker in and of itself. The lowest of the low don't bother.

    Jonah, what you're saying probably holds true for married couples in the middle and upper classes. But what about unmarried folks at the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum? There are an awful lot of kids being born out of wedlock these days.

    Among the lower classes, more than a few dumb unemployed (and unemployable) guys end up as baby daddies. The mothers aren't geniuses themselves, but many of them are significantly smarter than their sperm donors.

    (Black women tend to be sharper than black men.)

    Steve, you should be glad you worked those blue-collar jobs. It gave you invaluable perspective on the real world - a view of the full spectrum of human achievement (or lack thereof). Privileged kids who intern at Goldman Sachs tend to be cocooned from reality, so they're more apt to swallow the multiculti/diversity-über-alles bullshit.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say that every single Ivy League graduate should spend a few months working at a fast-food restaurant in a lower-income area. If nothing else, it would give them a glimpse of how those on the left end of the bell curve live their lives. Having to deal with some of our society's dimmer bulbs might temper their enthusiasm for importing endless swarms of peons.

    It should be noted that the act of taking the SAT is a status marker in and of itself. The lowest of the low don’t bother.

    I think some schools make all of the students take the test and they pay for the test for them.

    Read More
  79. Bizarrely, while the once-pleasant street where my wife grew up in Austin looks nowadays like a post-apocalyptic wasteland, a couple of miles to the west is Superior Street in Oak Park, IL where my father grew up in the 1920s. It looks like an outdoor Frank Lloyd Wright museum today.

    From town hall to town hall Austin to Oak Parks is 1.22 miles. Actually for those not familiar with the area have no idea the stark difference in racially driven outcomes given that both neighborhoods, the Frank Wright homes not included, at one time had very similar quality architecture.

    Austin Ave is the dividing line between neighborhoods and it is one the heavily patrolled streets in Chicago since Austin is a notorious area for retail street drug dealing.

    Read More
  80. @The Z Blog
    This story reminds me of when a friend had finished her shopping, and she went back to her car with her packages. When she got to the car, there was someone sitting in the back seat. As she approached, she saw it was an old woman.

    She asked the woman what she was doing in her car, and the woman said that she had gotten lost looking for the bus and got so tired that she just had to sit somewhere to rest, and asked if she could possibly see her way to driving her home or just to the nearest bus stop.

    Well, this lady was suspicious, so she said that she would be right back, and she returned to the mall and asked security if they could do something about the old woman. When a security guard got to the car, they found out she wasn't an old woman at all, but a man; and in her purse was a small hatchet.

    This sounds like a campfire story. Didn’t cars have locks on the doors in this universe?

    Read More
  81. @Flinders Petrie
    The Panel Study of Income Dynamics is probably a good place to search for data on the relationship between number of siblings and 'privilege'.

    http://psidonline.isr.umich.edu/

    After a few minutes playing around the the UI, I found that they do have inter-generational data on wealth as related to several variable (Word Score, race, family structure, etc.), but I've yet to figure out how to compare two or more variables. Maybe someone with more time on their hands today can get some useful data.
    Read More
  82. @unit472
    I'd note that affluence and parental age are related and that affluence taken too far is not an advantage. Unless you are a prodigal quant type or have some other talent or lucky break that vaults you into the upper income brackets at an early age, you have to do the slow climb up the income ladder. Dr. Michael Burry e.g., the hedge fund guru, would,no doubt, have had a very high income had he continued with his residency at Stanford and practiced medicine. He just wouldn't have been rich as Croesus at age 30 and retired. In fact, had he been married and raising a family when he was at Stanford University Hospital, he might have struggled to even buy a home and been forced to live across the bay in Fremont or Hayward and spent his spare time changing diapers rather than shorting synthetic CDOs.

    Then there is the issue of having too much money. Most people, even the children of the affluent, have to keep their eye on the ball because mom and dad can't or won't support them forever. Then there are the wastrel children of the rich. If not a majority they are certainly a significant enough minority to be a cautionary tale that affluence can be a good thing taken too far. I wonder if anyone has ever studied IQ among this cohort of the population. Its small but gaining access to, say the children of the 10,000 richest families in America, might be hard.

    Finally, if I can bore those with more expertise on academic testing, I note that there are SAT coaching services available today that were not available 40 or 50 years ago. In my day you just registered for and showed up for the test on the assigned date. No study, no practice tests etc. Are these SAT coaching services effective and if so that might explain some of the observed income based differential.

    Finally, if I can bore those with more expertise on academic testing, I note that there are SAT coaching services available today that were not available 40 or 50 years ago. In my day you just registered for and showed up for the test on the assigned date. No study, no practice tests etc. Are these SAT coaching services effective and if so that might explain some of the observed income based differential.

    If you’ve got enough self-discipline, you can coach yourself at very low cost, instead of paying over a thousand dollars to have someone hold your hand and walk you through the test. For less than a hundred dollars you can buy a couple of books on test-taking strategies and a couple of dozen old SATs and prep for the SAT on your own. Prepping probably correlates more with self-discipline and doggedness than it does with income level. (Of course, self-discipline and doggedness are probably also highly correlated with income level, too.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    For less than a hundred dollars you can buy a couple of books on test-taking strategies and a couple of dozen old SATs and prep for the SAT on your own. Prepping probably correlates more with self-discipline and doggedness than it does with income level.
     
    I come from a family with what David Brooks calls "status-income disequilibrium" (or was it "income-status..."), meaning high prestige, but very modest income.

    I scored 99 percentile on both the SAT and the GRE about 25-30 years ago.

    My parents did put me in *one* SAT prep class. However, I realized quickly that it was a waste of money. So I subsequently just bought several prep books and studied on my own as time permitted (I was a three-sport athlete so was a bit busy).

    For the GRE, I worked through one prep book. I took a few mockup tests and scored raw numbers that were equivalents of top 1%, so I just stopped there.

    I don't know about the "new" SAT test, but the old one seemed to me to be mostly an IQ test. Test prep probably helps a *little* bit, but not enough to make any substantive difference. Of course, that doesn't stop a bunch of Tiger Moms (including white ones in super zip codes) from putting their children in those courses. It has become a big business.

  83. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @SPMoore8
    There seems to be a lot of assumptions about High IQ = High Education = High Income as thought it is a matter of course.

    This is not how I have seen it played out, especially for women and especially for women in previous eras. High IQ can translate to high levels of education, but also only with the caveat that people who are highly intelligent are much more prone to be introspective, and thus socially awkward, and thus likely to suffer from all kinds of pathologies. Furthermore, high education doesn't necessarily lead to high income, and I don't even have in mind the Ph.D.'s who are still living at home.

    Among other things, I worked in the financial sector for decades, and most of my peers and superiors were totally into their work, 24/7 as the saying goes. All of them were extremely bright, 1% easily, but they were not necessarily well educated (as a humanist might use the term) and had no outside intellectual interests. Sometimes that would be due to the fact that they were trying to put their families first, or they were seeking status (second generation immigrants are hungry people), or security via money, or what have you. However the net effect was always the same: they made a lot of money, but rarely used their minds for any interests outside of making money. Not the life for many people.

    Once, when I was in a group of highly intelligent Wall Street bankers, all graduates of top-notch business schools, I made a passing reference to the year 1066. None of them had the slightest idea what I was talking about. I forever after bore the nickname, “The Trivia King.”

    Read More
  84. @Jack D
    Above a local Korean supermarket there was a billboard for a Korean SAT cram school called (optimistically) Yale Academy (Yale sued them and it's now Y2 Academy). The tagline was " With much pain comes much gain". They were PROMISING to cause their students pain and this was a selling feature in their culture. Obviously a ripoff on "No pain, no gain" but the spin was different - they were promising not just pain but MUCH pain. And not in the context of physical exercise but in an academic setting.

    they were promising not just pain but MUCH pain

    Anyone who’s been through an elite military selection training process knows that inflicting “much pain” is a device designed to break down the willpower of the selectees, a tool that separates the men from the boys.

    I am not as convinced of its applicability to academics, however.

    Read More
  85. The following table should disabuse anyone of the notion that income has much an influence on SAT scores: http://www.jbhe.com/latest/news/1-22-09/satracialgapfigure.gif

    That came from “The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Practical Conservative
    Lot more single-income+SAHM households among the whites. That right there is a huge effect, most black households are double-income or single-mother. Also fewer double-income or single-mother households among Asians and Hispanics as well.

    It's obviously a big deal demographically if the 100k household for a black kid is two parents making 50k, but it's dad making 100k for the white kid. This clearly is relevant and I can't seem to find data breaking down the SAHM prevalence in each income tier combined with the test scores. Would be very interesting patterns in that data.
  86. @Brent

    Finally, if I can bore those with more expertise on academic testing, I note that there are SAT coaching services available today that were not available 40 or 50 years ago. In my day you just registered for and showed up for the test on the assigned date. No study, no practice tests etc. Are these SAT coaching services effective and if so that might explain some of the observed income based differential.
     
    If you've got enough self-discipline, you can coach yourself at very low cost, instead of paying over a thousand dollars to have someone hold your hand and walk you through the test. For less than a hundred dollars you can buy a couple of books on test-taking strategies and a couple of dozen old SATs and prep for the SAT on your own. Prepping probably correlates more with self-discipline and doggedness than it does with income level. (Of course, self-discipline and doggedness are probably also highly correlated with income level, too.)

    For less than a hundred dollars you can buy a couple of books on test-taking strategies and a couple of dozen old SATs and prep for the SAT on your own. Prepping probably correlates more with self-discipline and doggedness than it does with income level.

    I come from a family with what David Brooks calls “status-income disequilibrium” (or was it “income-status…”), meaning high prestige, but very modest income.

    I scored 99 percentile on both the SAT and the GRE about 25-30 years ago.

    My parents did put me in *one* SAT prep class. However, I realized quickly that it was a waste of money. So I subsequently just bought several prep books and studied on my own as time permitted (I was a three-sport athlete so was a bit busy).

    For the GRE, I worked through one prep book. I took a few mockup tests and scored raw numbers that were equivalents of top 1%, so I just stopped there.

    I don’t know about the “new” SAT test, but the old one seemed to me to be mostly an IQ test. Test prep probably helps a *little* bit, but not enough to make any substantive difference. Of course, that doesn’t stop a bunch of Tiger Moms (including white ones in super zip codes) from putting their children in those courses. It has become a big business.

    Read More
  87. @res
    Thanks for the link. For those wanting to analyze the PSID data these links might help:
    http://www.asdfree.com/search/label/panel%20study%20of%20income%20dynamics%20%28psid%29
    https://github.com/ajdamico/usgsd/tree/master/Panel%20Study%20of%20Income%20Dynamics

    Those are helpful links, thanks.

    Read More
  88. @Anonymous
    I grew up in a Catholic family with double-digit kids (and not very long ago- the youngest are still in grade school). Older people have memories of families like that, but a lot of younger people are incredulous and can't imagine how it's possible. It's a ton of work for parents to raise that many, obviously, but I think people overestimate just how hard it is. You can't count the hours it takes to care for one or two and then multiply, because the marginal additional effort required declines with each kid. Eventually the teenagers are keeping an eye on the younger kids, dropping them off at baseball practice, etc.

    Growing up I knew lot of the Opus Dei crowd- successful, educated white-collar types with big families. In those circles the sample sizes are so large that the HBD stuff becomes really obvious once you know what to look for. My parents are both pretty smart, and most of my siblings have gotten very high test scores and top school admissions without prepping much at all. As you look at different large families you see remarkable family similarities in intelligence, introversion/extroversion, etc.

    My impression is that entry into the top levels of business and academia depends a lot more on the family's socioeconomic status and general savviness than it does on the number of kids. And the savviness increases as the younger kids see what the older kids do. It's amazing how much more clued in my siblings are about academic grants, job opportunities, etc. than I was at their age. We're not quite on the Harvard/Goldman track, though...for all I know, family size could have some effect at that level.

    Your comment seems as good a segue as any into my own. You had a large number of smart siblings. This no doubt confers advantage on some of the siblings as they leverage the success of the others. An only kid like Sailer or myself must make it strictly on our own merits as single child parents are often older parents who may not be able to help much as the kid matures into the job market. A guy with eight older brothers and sisters all successful on the other hand has a pretty broad support base when he’s looking for a job.

    How much of the increased parental investment into an only child is offset by the increased opportunity available to a child from a large family at the same IQ level?

    Read More
  89. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Although you don’t hear about it much now that small families are the norm, back in my Baby Boom childhood, the privileged nature of being an only child — only children were widely said to be spoiled — was a frequent subject of conversation.

    So, are you telling us that citizens should have three or more children so that their children are not privileged?

    I suspect that that is something citizens could get behind.

    Read More
  90. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Jonah
    This is very astute and under-considered by sociologists looking at longitudinal data like these. Given hypergamy - the propensity for women to "marry up", and the willingness of men to "marry down" in favor of looks or other non IQ traits - I would bet Murray's point would be amplified by if you looked at father's IQ instead of mother's. Wish he had the #s for dads/SAT rather than moms/PIAT. Would be a stronger and more striking piece.

    By the way, I doubt I'm the only person here whose father was smarter than my mother. It's probably true for over 60% of the population but you never hear about it. For people with one parent SIGNIFICANTLY smarter than the other, I bet it's Dads over Moms 10-1.

    And yes, the math checks out. Dumb, low status men, and ugly smart women are more frequently shut out of the marriage game than their gender opposites.

    Is that the mechanism behind reversion to the mean? Smart, successful men tend to pick beauty over brains, while ugly, smart women have to settle for dumb losers, resulting in a tendency towards the population mean?

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    No. That's a very specific statistical concept that tends to get muddied in discussions of heritability because of the salient causal chain (each child is, very specifically, the result of its parents' procreative activity). It's important to understand that regression to the mean applies most clearly to observations that are causally unrelated (e.g. consecutive payouts at a slot machine -- or even payouts at different slot machines) but also applies to observations that are part of a distinct causal chain but that also have a random component (e.g. combining genetic material over several generations). The higher the IQ of the parents, the higher you expect the child's IQ to be, and for two very high-IQ parents you would still expect their child to be much more likely to be above the IQ mean than below it. But you wouldn't expect all of the different factors that affect intelligence to line up just right the same way they did for the parents. Nobody in this world can really bank on having genius kids, although placing widespread selective pressure on intelligence can push the mean of a population upward over time (as it did for da Jooooooooos).

    Anyway, based on my completely unscientific observations, I suspect that good looks are more heritable than high intelligence, so I really can't blame smart men for seeking trophy wives.
  91. It’s somewhat sad to hear that you can’t look back at your summer job at Burger King as having been good for you in one way or another. As parents come to think of their own work experiences in that way, they will probably stop encouraging their kids from getting those kinds of jobs, and the result will be an upper middle class even less tuned in to reality.

    Almost four years ago, I moved from the urban West Coast to rural Minnesota. (I’m a Californian who spent many years in Seattle.) I have been immensely impressed by the work ethic of the young people here. Retail and service industry jobs are (for the time being) still dominated by native Minnesotan young adults. College students here often work multiple jobs.

    In both the Bay Area and Seattle proper, those kinds of jobs are held by older adults from immigrant families. Perhaps they are better employees than younger people. In any case, young Californians do not have the work opportunities that their counterparts here do.

    I can’t help admiring the willingness of middle-class Minnesotans to work, to work so much, and to do so in a way that makes it clear that the stigma that I grew up with in California with respect to low-glamour work is much weaker here. On the other hand, the compulsion can go too far. College students here will (surprisingly often) try to be both full-time employees and full-time students, paying for classes they fail with money they earn from working jobs that make it impossible for them to study for the classes they are failing.

    I want to believe that the humble jobs of our youth were good for us, but were they?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "I want to believe that the humble jobs of our youth were good for us, but were they?"

    They were probably good for society, but, personally, I should have been more focused on clawing my way to the top. And then I could have retired rich to blogging and you wouldn't have to put up with my quarterly panhandling, which by the way, is coming up soon.

    , @Scotty G. Vito
    Hey, if you think that's bad, think of all the moral-corruption dividends from everyone not raising his own damned food on his own farm any more. btw Burger King is a historical artifact of cheap gasoline, USDA policy, and aerospace welfare to Florida during the 50s
  92. @Anonymous
    Is that the mechanism behind reversion to the mean? Smart, successful men tend to pick beauty over brains, while ugly, smart women have to settle for dumb losers, resulting in a tendency towards the population mean?

    No. That’s a very specific statistical concept that tends to get muddied in discussions of heritability because of the salient causal chain (each child is, very specifically, the result of its parents’ procreative activity). It’s important to understand that regression to the mean applies most clearly to observations that are causally unrelated (e.g. consecutive payouts at a slot machine — or even payouts at different slot machines) but also applies to observations that are part of a distinct causal chain but that also have a random component (e.g. combining genetic material over several generations). The higher the IQ of the parents, the higher you expect the child’s IQ to be, and for two very high-IQ parents you would still expect their child to be much more likely to be above the IQ mean than below it. But you wouldn’t expect all of the different factors that affect intelligence to line up just right the same way they did for the parents. Nobody in this world can really bank on having genius kids, although placing widespread selective pressure on intelligence can push the mean of a population upward over time (as it did for da Jooooooooos).

    Anyway, based on my completely unscientific observations, I suspect that good looks are more heritable than high intelligence, so I really can’t blame smart men for seeking trophy wives.

    Read More
  93. @Grumpy
    It's somewhat sad to hear that you can't look back at your summer job at Burger King as having been good for you in one way or another. As parents come to think of their own work experiences in that way, they will probably stop encouraging their kids from getting those kinds of jobs, and the result will be an upper middle class even less tuned in to reality.

    Almost four years ago, I moved from the urban West Coast to rural Minnesota. (I'm a Californian who spent many years in Seattle.) I have been immensely impressed by the work ethic of the young people here. Retail and service industry jobs are (for the time being) still dominated by native Minnesotan young adults. College students here often work multiple jobs.

    In both the Bay Area and Seattle proper, those kinds of jobs are held by older adults from immigrant families. Perhaps they are better employees than younger people. In any case, young Californians do not have the work opportunities that their counterparts here do.

    I can't help admiring the willingness of middle-class Minnesotans to work, to work so much, and to do so in a way that makes it clear that the stigma that I grew up with in California with respect to low-glamour work is much weaker here. On the other hand, the compulsion can go too far. College students here will (surprisingly often) try to be both full-time employees and full-time students, paying for classes they fail with money they earn from working jobs that make it impossible for them to study for the classes they are failing.

    I want to believe that the humble jobs of our youth were good for us, but were they?

    “I want to believe that the humble jobs of our youth were good for us, but were they?”

    They were probably good for society, but, personally, I should have been more focused on clawing my way to the top. And then I could have retired rich to blogging and you wouldn’t have to put up with my quarterly panhandling, which by the way, is coming up soon.

    Read More
  94. @Twinkie
    The following table should disabuse anyone of the notion that income has much an influence on SAT scores: http://www.jbhe.com/latest/news/1-22-09/satracialgapfigure.gif

    That came from "The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education."

    Lot more single-income+SAHM households among the whites. That right there is a huge effect, most black households are double-income or single-mother. Also fewer double-income or single-mother households among Asians and Hispanics as well.

    It’s obviously a big deal demographically if the 100k household for a black kid is two parents making 50k, but it’s dad making 100k for the white kid. This clearly is relevant and I can’t seem to find data breaking down the SAHM prevalence in each income tier combined with the test scores. Would be very interesting patterns in that data.

    Read More
  95. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    when you raised this at Marginal Revolution. i pointed out that there is a large body of research into whether family size effects exist for IQ or educational attainment. Chances are it doesn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    So then Inequality and Privilege don't really matter?

    I'm not being snarky, I think it's an extremely important angle on some of the big topics of the time.

  96. @anon
    when you raised this at Marginal Revolution. i pointed out that there is a large body of research into whether family size effects exist for IQ or educational attainment. Chances are it doesn't.

    So then Inequality and Privilege don’t really matter?

    I’m not being snarky, I think it’s an extremely important angle on some of the big topics of the time.

    Read More
  97. Murray’s op-ed is good. Whatever credit the WSJ copy editors deserve, he has a knack for an unflinching, clear polemical style. I always felt it was an under-analyzed subtext of that award-winning series on AMC — you know, the one set in recent history with the old-fashioned male-dominated cast, typically seen in their distinctive professional suits & attire, while they were trying to figure out how to effectively market a product while society underwent rapid change; I’m talking about “Breaking Bad” of course — was the contrast of a guy with a right-tail IQ splitting his time between lecturing bored high school inmates and carrying pails at a car wash to barely scrape by with his unemployed pregnant wife and crippled kid, living a few blocks over from the DINKY (and gauche) DEA agent/lab assistant couple who both displayed exaggerated sex roles and, arguably, weren’t doing much to turn around the direction of society in their respective vocations.* It made Walt’s frustration more palpable, almost to make you see (up to a point) why he couldn’t let go of his demented drug kingpin scheme. Oh yeah, and ironically enough his intelligence seemed not to be so much help after all, in that pursuit… Crime doesn’t pay, kids. Accept the system.

    * to their credit the BB producers never embraced the cheap SWPL “legalization cure” school of argument, portrayed the drug warriors as sincere and honor-bound if occasionally corrupt, and seemed to have a relatively honest sociological take on limits of uplifting the criminal poor

    Read More
  98. @Grumpy
    It's somewhat sad to hear that you can't look back at your summer job at Burger King as having been good for you in one way or another. As parents come to think of their own work experiences in that way, they will probably stop encouraging their kids from getting those kinds of jobs, and the result will be an upper middle class even less tuned in to reality.

    Almost four years ago, I moved from the urban West Coast to rural Minnesota. (I'm a Californian who spent many years in Seattle.) I have been immensely impressed by the work ethic of the young people here. Retail and service industry jobs are (for the time being) still dominated by native Minnesotan young adults. College students here often work multiple jobs.

    In both the Bay Area and Seattle proper, those kinds of jobs are held by older adults from immigrant families. Perhaps they are better employees than younger people. In any case, young Californians do not have the work opportunities that their counterparts here do.

    I can't help admiring the willingness of middle-class Minnesotans to work, to work so much, and to do so in a way that makes it clear that the stigma that I grew up with in California with respect to low-glamour work is much weaker here. On the other hand, the compulsion can go too far. College students here will (surprisingly often) try to be both full-time employees and full-time students, paying for classes they fail with money they earn from working jobs that make it impossible for them to study for the classes they are failing.

    I want to believe that the humble jobs of our youth were good for us, but were they?

    Hey, if you think that’s bad, think of all the moral-corruption dividends from everyone not raising his own damned food on his own farm any more. btw Burger King is a historical artifact of cheap gasoline, USDA policy, and aerospace welfare to Florida during the 50s

    Read More
  99. @Jim
    Cognitive tests are designed to measure cognitive ability not degree of empathy. Criticising them for not showing how empathetic someone is is like criticising a thermometer because it does not tell you the humidity.

    Cognitive tests were designed to measure the concept of intelligence of those who built them.

    And are morally blind tests, which is very important. Note that all the problems that are affecting the West, are precisely caused by this blindness.

    Cognitive tests measure the IQ bureaucrat. Real cognitive tests should measure people’s strengths in real time. This is to measure genotypic intelligence, which in the end, is what matters most.

    If there was a real meritocracy, we would not have people who have no empathy in charge of nations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim
    Western and Japanese psychometricians studying the Japanese population get essentially identical results despite the considerable cultural differences between Japan and the West.

    Actually in any concrete case phenotypic intelligence is what is important in "real life" not genotypic intelligence. For example if the phenotypic inelligence of a population is depressed below it's potential genotypic level by say iodine deficiency it is the phenotypic inelligence that actually determines what happens in that population.

    I don't disagree that empathy is desirable but complaining about IQ tests because they don't measure empathy is like complaining about a thermometer because it doesn't measure humidity.
  100. @jjbees
    One example of this is the MCAT.

    This is the exam to get into medical school. To actually get in if you are white or asian, you need a score that is higher than 30. A 30 is ~80th percentile, and the people taking the test are generally college students and graduates who want to be doctors...the competition is pretty stiff.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is "in the know" will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    There are many intelligent, hard working proles who get straight A's in college but bomb the MCATs because they are not clever enough to figure out this is what they need to do. The corollary is also true, there are many elites with sub par GPAs who do understand this, do their test prep and pad their resumes, who succeed.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    Agree that test prep is key, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Expensive test prep materials does not necessarily translate into effective test prep materials for everyone. Different strokes…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this
     
    This is inaccurate. I do some part-time test-prep, and there are kids who come in acing the first practice test (mostly Asian these days) and others whose performance doesn't budge much at all despite all the prep in the world. You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..) or from schools that haven't hit some of the content.

    I (public school kid) got a perfect ACT in the 80s and a couple of my friends were close without any prep. Today's test is more like the SAT but not substantially more difficult.
  101. @EriK

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.
     
    Agree that test prep is key, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Expensive test prep materials does not necessarily translate into effective test prep materials for everyone. Different strokes...

    It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this

    This is inaccurate. I do some part-time test-prep, and there are kids who come in acing the first practice test (mostly Asian these days) and others whose performance doesn’t budge much at all despite all the prep in the world. You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..) or from schools that haven’t hit some of the content.

    I (public school kid) got a perfect ACT in the 80s and a couple of my friends were close without any prep. Today’s test is more like the SAT but not substantially more difficult.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..)
     
    Yeah, from what I can tell, the most productive aspects of test prep involves stuff like:

    1.Time management: Don't take too long on one question.

    2.Don't overthink: This tends to happen with bright people.They read complexity into a question and trip themselves up

    3.Test anxiety: Again, something that tends to afflict the bright.
  102. What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn’t exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

     

    My "test prep" in the mid-'70s consisted of staying up till 3am listening to LPs with my new Koss headphones. (Like too many other school nights!)

    The brand-new chain bookstore-- B Dalton or Walden, I forget-- had a ceiling-to-floor bookcase of test-prep guides, but they were mostly for things like firefighter and refrigeration specialist exams, not aptitude tests. I didn't see a need to "game" the SAT because it was already a game, like spending Saturday morning at the pinball arcade.

    I don't know what formal prep would have done. My score got me into engineering school (2nd choice), and later Mensa. But that's no good when your ADD percentile is just as high. I didn't need an élite school, but a patient and forgiving one.

    My counselor was annoying, but she was probably on to something when she suggested I go to a 2-year state tech "starter" school despite the high scores. A gap year (who'd ever heard of that?) or going directly into the service would have been a smarter move.

    Sometimes your test score can be too high for your own good!
    , @The most deplorable one

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.
     
    When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply? That is the sort of familiarity with, say, integration techniques that comes of long practice mean that they are focused on getting as many answers correct without any understanding of the underlying principls?

    Does knowing how to ride a bike without knowing anything about things like angular momentum mean that you are just a fake? Does driving a car without knowing anything about the internal combustion engine or the computers in a car mean that you are trying to get as many answers right without any understanding of the underlying material?

     That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     I'm not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.

    , @E. Rekshun
    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    Though it rarely happens, this is how the low-socioeconomic high-school students "learn" calculus. (Like the "true story" of those Hispanic students in "Stand and Deliver.") They're just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to "solve" a very small set of calculus problems.
    , @Twinkie

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     
    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can't memorize answers - you do have to understand "the underlying material." If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren't being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory - either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it's the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.
     
    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don't require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say "Asians cheat" or "I knew this Asian once and...") and high IQ HBD-types aren't buying the "I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true" routine. The latter require things like, I don't know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you "don't have a 'proof' or anything" and that you are merely "raising questions."

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don't need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.
  103. @jjbees
    One example of this is the MCAT.

    This is the exam to get into medical school. To actually get in if you are white or asian, you need a score that is higher than 30. A 30 is ~80th percentile, and the people taking the test are generally college students and graduates who want to be doctors...the competition is pretty stiff.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is "in the know" will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    There are many intelligent, hard working proles who get straight A's in college but bomb the MCATs because they are not clever enough to figure out this is what they need to do. The corollary is also true, there are many elites with sub par GPAs who do understand this, do their test prep and pad their resumes, who succeed.

    The key is test prep. Anyone who is “in the know” will spend a few thousand dollars on expensive test prep materials, and take a summer off to work on them. It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this.

    That might be true for the MCAT (I never took it), but it is most definitely not true for, say, the GRE.As I mentioned elsewhere, my GRE prep involved taking a sample test once (98th percentile on the Verbal, 98th percentile on the subject), and then taking the test for real (98th percentile on the Verbal, 98th percentile on the subject).

    Read More
  104. @Desiderius

    It is nearly impossible to get a competitive score without doing this
     
    This is inaccurate. I do some part-time test-prep, and there are kids who come in acing the first practice test (mostly Asian these days) and others whose performance doesn't budge much at all despite all the prep in the world. You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..) or from schools that haven't hit some of the content.

    I (public school kid) got a perfect ACT in the 80s and a couple of my friends were close without any prep. Today's test is more like the SAT but not substantially more difficult.

    You get the biggest bump from brightish kids with poor test-taking skills (time management, etc..)

    Yeah, from what I can tell, the most productive aspects of test prep involves stuff like:

    1.Time management: Don’t take too long on one question.

    2.Don’t overthink: This tends to happen with bright people.They read complexity into a question and trip themselves up

    3.Test anxiety: Again, something that tends to afflict the bright.

    Read More
  105. It seems everyone assumes it is always an advantage to be an only child. I would disagree. What if your loving parents are not…loving, that is, and could give a shit.
    It is real easy to ignore one solitary kid, then browbeat and intimidate him because no one will confirm his suspicions. But siblings can back each other up.
    I don’t have any studies to cite but a therapist my wife knows says there are two kinds of only children…adored and ignored. The cliched view is the adored only child whose parents hang on her every breath. But there are many ignored only children who are sick to death of the cliched view being used to guilt trip them every chance society gets.

    Read More
  106. @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    My “test prep” in the mid-’70s consisted of staying up till 3am listening to LPs with my new Koss headphones. (Like too many other school nights!)

    The brand-new chain bookstore– B Dalton or Walden, I forget– had a ceiling-to-floor bookcase of test-prep guides, but they were mostly for things like firefighter and refrigeration specialist exams, not aptitude tests. I didn’t see a need to “game” the SAT because it was already a game, like spending Saturday morning at the pinball arcade.

    I don’t know what formal prep would have done. My score got me into engineering school (2nd choice), and later Mensa. But that’s no good when your ADD percentile is just as high. I didn’t need an élite school, but a patient and forgiving one.

    My counselor was annoying, but she was probably on to something when she suggested I go to a 2-year state tech “starter” school despite the high scores. A gap year (who’d ever heard of that?) or going directly into the service would have been a smarter move.

    Sometimes your test score can be too high for your own good!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan D Mute

    and later Mensa
     
    Once in, did you see any point in sticking around? Or get booted for "acts inimical to Mensa"?
  107. The probability of entering and remaining in an intellectually elite profession such as Physician, Judge, Professor, Scientist, Corporate Executive, etc. increases with IQ to about 133. It then falls about 1/3 by 140. By 150 IQ the probability has fallen by 97%!

    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan D Mute

    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html
     
    This is due to boredom and disaffection with the process entirely. Kids at the extreme end of the bell curve don't fit in classes with their "peers" nor do they fit with classes of older kids when they skip grades. They can be very hard to teach as often they don't learn in the same manner the regular kids do. And of course perhaps worst of all is that they see directly through all the BS the schools and parents try to feed them.
  108. I’ve noticed that children from large families and from tightly knit extended families have far better social skills than people like me (grew up with one sibling and no nearby cousins).

    In the era of small families, girls who have a sister and female cousins seem better socialized than girls with brothers. Same with boys with brothers as opposed to boys with sisters.

    I’ve always felt sorry for only children. Their children will have no cousins, aunts, uncles.

    In this day and age, I think the more siblings and cousins you have the more privileged you are.

    Read More
  109. I’ve always felt sorry for only children. Their children will have no cousins, aunts, uncles.

    On one side, that is. How common are double only-child marriages?

    You just described my stepfather’s situation, though. His dad was an only, and his mom’s one brother (his namesake) died as a young adult “without issue”. No aunts or (living) uncles.

    But he had cousins. Just not first.

    Read More
  110. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Luke Lea
    Nick Katz, a world-class mathematician at Princeton, got twin 650's on his SAT's back in 1960. Told me he thought that was good enough. How do you explain that?

    I took several classes from Nick Katz and maxed out my SATs. I assure you that he is much smarter than I am.

    Read More
  111. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply? That is the sort of familiarity with, say, integration techniques that comes of long practice mean that they are focused on getting as many answers correct without any understanding of the underlying principls?

    Does knowing how to ride a bike without knowing anything about things like angular momentum mean that you are just a fake? Does driving a car without knowing anything about the internal combustion engine or the computers in a car mean that you are trying to get as many answers right without any understanding of the underlying material?

    That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.

    Read More
  112. @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    Though it rarely happens, this is how the low-socioeconomic high-school students “learn” calculus. (Like the “true story” of those Hispanic students in “Stand and Deliver.”) They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew

    They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.
     
    Exactly. If you can learn in 9th grade that y = x^2 - 3x + 2 crosses the x axis at 1 and 2, then three years later you can surely learn that the slope of that same function is 2x-3.
  113. @countenance
    I always enjoy socially scientific speculation in this medium.

    But you do realize that all this hype over "student affluence test" is based on the grand mystery that is N'Deshawntavious not scoring in the 99th percentile, don't you?

    Mildly OT, but did you see the names in the Elmira, NY high school brawl? Jaziah, Diamonisha, Percephanie, JaQuea, etc.

    Fun fact taken from Jill Levoy’s Ghettoside is that the apostrophes and offbeat spellings in their names make their owners’ criminal records harder to trace.

    Read More
  114. Mr Steve you have shared the story of your liberal in-laws real estate meltdown several times, but you never gave us the final chapter; what was their takeaway from their experiment with integration? Did they blame themselves or did they blame whitey?

    Read More
  115. @Nathan Wartooth
    "But after three years and three felonies against their small children, my in-laws were pretty much financially wiped out by trying to make integration work in Austin. And thus after they finally sold out at a massive loss, they wound up living in a farmhouse without running water for the next two years."

    This is a story that has been repeated over and over again. White flight is shown in a light where it is a horrible thing for minorities. But the truth is that it's horrible for the whites.

    When whites start fleeing an area, housing prices drop like a rock. That house that you bought for 100,000 and have paid years of the mortgage on, might only be worth 50,000 now. Since you only pay off interest in the first few years and hardly anything on the principle, you could end up owing 50,000 to the bank on that house and when you move you will be paying two mortgages instead of one.

    I'm not sure if anyone has ever done a study on how much whites have lost during white flight but at this point it has to be in the billions. Not to mention all of the money wasted on car repair and gas having to live in a suburb and work in the city.

    Getting rid of restrictive covenants has been one of the most economically damaging things to the US. Drive through an old part of a city that has had white flight. It's really sad to see all of these once beautiful houses now fallen into disrepair, because the area is now a ghetto.

    I’m not sure if anyone has ever done a study on how much whites have lost during white flight but at this point it has to be in the billions.

    A back-of-the-envelope calculation puts the number between 1 and 5 trillion in 2015 dollars.

    Read More
  116. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Sums up in “birds of a feather flock together” – good breeding improves animal stock also.

    Read More
  117. […] Baby-editing time approaches. Too smart for their own good. The SAT isn’t measuring affluence. Consensus catalepsy. Moral […]

    Read More
  118. “When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?”

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That’s pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    “I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.”

    You don’t know any such thing.

    “They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.”

    I’ve read that before, and suspect it is likely true. But I’ve only ever found one source on it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    “I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.”

    You don’t know any such thing.
     
    He is correct and you are wrong. The modern teaching paradigm of encouraging "creative thinking" today has gone completely overboard, to the extent that mastery of facts is being eschewed and "emoting" under the guise of being "creative" is being promoted.

    Young children (whose brain neural pathways are still forming) have to master (memorize) a substantial body of basic facts about the world around them first, before they can relate such facts to each other and form hypotheses of such relationships that eventually become principles. In essence, you have to teach young minds inductive reasoning first before they can master deductive reasoning, which is both more abstract and certain.
    , @The most deplorable one

    “When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?”

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That’s pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.
     
    Oh for fuck's sake!

    I can remember back around 50 years ago where we were taught our tables. This was in another majority-white country, and the teachers had us chant our multiplication tables. We only went up to 12, not 20, as previous generations did.

    At that time, since I was in the age range from 5 to 10, I am pretty sure that I did not 'understand' multiplication. It was just something we had to learn. However, it was effective.

    I'm beginning to think that Ed school has warped your brain.
  119. @education realist
    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

    Americans think of it as familiarity with the test, understanding of how it works. That kind of test prep will help most people a bit, some people a lot, some people not at all.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    Incidentally, Kaplan test prep goes back well before the SAT, so those of you saying it didn't exist when you were kids are wrong.

    Another incidentally-whites are far less likely to get test prep than blacks or Asians, Hispanics only a bit more likely than whites. And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.

    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can’t memorize answers – you do have to understand “the underlying material.” If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren’t being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory – either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it’s the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.

    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don’t require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say “Asians cheat” or “I knew this Asian once and…”) and high IQ HBD-types aren’t buying the “I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true” routine. The latter require things like, I don’t know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you “don’t have a ‘proof’ or anything” and that you are merely “raising questions.”

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don’t need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    , @Beliavsky
    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I've seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.
  120. @education realist
    "When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?"

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That's pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    "I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles."

    You don't know any such thing.



    "They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems."

    I've read that before, and suspect it is likely true. But I've only ever found one source on it.

    “I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles.”

    You don’t know any such thing.

    He is correct and you are wrong. The modern teaching paradigm of encouraging “creative thinking” today has gone completely overboard, to the extent that mastery of facts is being eschewed and “emoting” under the guise of being “creative” is being promoted.

    Young children (whose brain neural pathways are still forming) have to master (memorize) a substantial body of basic facts about the world around them first, before they can relate such facts to each other and form hypotheses of such relationships that eventually become principles. In essence, you have to teach young minds inductive reasoning first before they can master deductive reasoning, which is both more abstract and certain.

    Read More
  121. @Twinkie

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     
    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can't memorize answers - you do have to understand "the underlying material." If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren't being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory - either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it's the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.
     
    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don't require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say "Asians cheat" or "I knew this Asian once and...") and high IQ HBD-types aren't buying the "I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true" routine. The latter require things like, I don't know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you "don't have a 'proof' or anything" and that you are merely "raising questions."

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don't need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.

    “Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are”… “you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did”….

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife’s Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of ‘em.

    “are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia”

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia — and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here’s tonight’s question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys “picked all the low-hanging fruit” and now it’s much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife’s Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of ‘em.
     
    No, just for people like "Educational Realist" who spout a lot of racial envy without evidence.

    I know this is a difficult concept for you, but dislike of one or several white persons does not equal hatred of white people in general. Setting aside other white people, I view most of my fellow Americans (a large majority of who are whites) as decent, hardworking, and Christian people to whom I owe my allegiance.

    As I mentioned in another thread, that allegiance extends to even people like you who are obstinately unreasonable and hate-filled. I'd defend you and your children to the last drop of my blood if you were attacked by non-Americans (or by American domestic criminals), because whether you like it or not, you are a part of my larger tribe.

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia — and YOU are it.
     
    Yes, yes, it's clear that you have a mouth-frothing resentment about me. Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they're just brown "white" people who don't "cheat," so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys “picked all the low-hanging fruit”
     
    I don't know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn't me.

    I don't want to write a novel-length response, so let's just say that periods of scientific, economic, and military-political dominance by various regions in the vast expanse of the Eurasian continent have shifted back and forth among different groups for the past several thousand years. For example, Scandinavians are today lauded for their clean, rich, highly technologically advanced and orderly societies, but until relatively recently (say, the 18th-19th Centuries), their countries were quite backward and poor. Even at the height of its empire building during the 18th Century, Sweden remained behind many European powers and this intellectual and material poverty was one of the reasons why it could not sustain the brilliant conquests of men like Gustavus Adolphus.

    White nationalist/supremacist types would like to conflate all whites together as if there existed a single continuum of (particular set of) genetics-driven scientific achievements through the millennia, but that's an ideological construct of modern Western Europeans who fancied themselves as successors to the glories of classical Rome and Greece even though to the builders of the Latino and Hellenic civilizations the Germanic ancestors of the latter-day Western Europeans were smelly barbarians incapable of building complex polities and cities. Where was the Great Albion while glories of Rome were still fresh?

    Unless there are dramatic IQ differences (e.g. sub-Saharan Africans and Meso-Americans), there are ebbs and flows to complex civilizations, in which some regions temporarily excel over others and so forth. "The Rise of the West" beginning with the 17th Century was a phenomenon that was strongly to tied to the revolution in military affairs that shifted from the southern European dominance to a northern and western one.

    So, looking at it continent-wide, there are certainly HBD scientists (e.g. the late Phil Rushton) who surmised that the period of Western supremacy may be nearing an end and that the East may be reaching a period of parity (at least) with the West.

    Certainly if we were to use patents per capita as a proxy for general creativeness/inventiveness, East Asians seem to be doing well of late: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Patents-granted

    If you opened any serious peer-reviewed scientific journal today, you would see that great many articles are authored by those with Asian surnames in fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, and so on. East Asia has awakened from its long period of intellectual and civilizational slumber and has undergone a very rapid scientific advancement and industrialization. And they are beginning to flex their muscle globally.

    While I am happy that such Asian gains have resulted in far fewer people living in poverty around the world, as an American I look at this general trend with some caution and worry since some of these countries (the most notable of which is China) may become a rival to my country, the United States, for global hegemony.
    , @Stan D Mute

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???
     
    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.
    , @Jean Cocteausten
    I never heard that claim, but anyone who thinks Newton's laws of motion are "low-hanging fruit" doesn't really understand them.
    , @MarkinLA
    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    My guess would be that the system of mathematics used prior to then was not conducive to advances in the physical sciences. The creation of the calculus which is the basic language of physics and engineering is what made the difference.

    I did see a TV show once where a old book was written over by monks. The underlying book seemed to be by Archimedes where he theorized infinity and possibly calculus. Imagine what might have happened if he wasn't murdered and the Roman engineers had calculus.
  122. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @education realist
    "When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?"

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That's pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    "I’m not Asian but know that first you have to learn a lot of what seems like useless facts before you can understand any of the underlying principles."

    You don't know any such thing.



    "They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems."

    I've read that before, and suspect it is likely true. But I've only ever found one source on it.

    “When someone learns their multiplication tables does the same apply?”

    If that someone learned his multiplication tables without understanding the concepts of multiplication, yes. That’s pretty rare, even at the low end of the IQ spectrum.

    Oh for fuck’s sake!

    I can remember back around 50 years ago where we were taught our tables. This was in another majority-white country, and the teachers had us chant our multiplication tables. We only went up to 12, not 20, as previous generations did.

    At that time, since I was in the age range from 5 to 10, I am pretty sure that I did not ‘understand’ multiplication. It was just something we had to learn. However, it was effective.

    I’m beginning to think that Ed school has warped your brain.

    Read More
  123. @Twinkie

    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary. That kind of test prep helps Asians with good memories come up with a test score with no relation to what Americans (not white people, mind you) would consider representative of their abilities.
     
    The quantitative portion of SAT is basically an IQ test. You can't memorize answers - you do have to understand "the underlying material." If one had sufficiently high enough IQ, one would figure out rather quickly that many questions seek answers that aren't being asked (e.g. selecting the right answer for a multi-digit multiplication, for which only the stupid would actually calculate the answer and burn up precious time instead of discarding those multiple choices with wrong last digits).

    The verbal portion, especially vocabulary-centric questions are based on memory - either reading a lot or memorizing words, their synonyms and anonyms, usually both (all language learning is necessity + repetition).

    If rote memorization helps anywhere it's the vocab section. Yet Asians do better on the quantitative section.

    And given Asian preference for the SAT, they are almost certainly cheating, as well as gaming.
     
    Give it a rest. Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are already convinced by you (and don't require pesky things like evidence, which you refuse to provide; for them you only have to say "Asians cheat" or "I knew this Asian once and...") and high IQ HBD-types aren't buying the "I repeat it 1000 times so it must be true" routine. The latter require things like, I don't know, evidence (which you, extremely disingenuously, do not provide under the guise that you "don't have a 'proof' or anything" and that you are merely "raising questions."

    There are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia. You don't need to invent a fantasy excuse, just because you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did.

    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I’ve seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I’ve seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep
     
    I'd love to read those studies. Would you please have any links or citations?

    it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

     

    I am not certain the logic of that necessarily follows, even if we accepted the premise.

    As far as "test prep" is concerned, I do think that the verbal section requires lengthier preparation in order to raise scores. Vocabulary (indeed language learning) is built by necessity + repetition, so it's not something one can "just pick up" by learning the underlying principles as is the case with math questions.

    When I took the test for the specialized high school entrance in NYC, my math section was perfect and my verbal was not (that was about one year after I arrived in the U.S. prior to which I had minimal English training). When I took the SAT a few years later, I scored 99 percentile on both math and verbal, but my math was still higher by about 50 points (raw score). By the time I took the GRE, however, my command of the English language was at native level and I had read hundreds of advanced books in English. Both my math and verbal section scores were pretty close to each other, only off by 20 points, both 99 percentile.

    The point is that my IQ hadn't changed, but my vocabulary and the general command of the English language improved greatly during those years. So my quantitative scores remained pretty much the same for all those tests, but my verbal scores improved (not hugely, but enough to notice).
  124. Beyond $200,000, PIAT scores go down as income increases.

    And therefore $200,000 should be the maximum income allowed in America?

    Republicans are wrong as usual…for opposing taxing the rich. It’s for their own good…

    Read More
  125. @Beliavsky
    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I've seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

    Both the SAT math and verbal are g-loaded, but I’ve seen studies showing that it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep

    I’d love to read those studies. Would you please have any links or citations?

    it is easier to boost math than verbal scores with test prep, which suggests to me that the verbal section is more g-loaded, since test prep does not raise g.

    I am not certain the logic of that necessarily follows, even if we accepted the premise.

    As far as “test prep” is concerned, I do think that the verbal section requires lengthier preparation in order to raise scores. Vocabulary (indeed language learning) is built by necessity + repetition, so it’s not something one can “just pick up” by learning the underlying principles as is the case with math questions.

    When I took the test for the specialized high school entrance in NYC, my math section was perfect and my verbal was not (that was about one year after I arrived in the U.S. prior to which I had minimal English training). When I took the SAT a few years later, I scored 99 percentile on both math and verbal, but my math was still higher by about 50 points (raw score). By the time I took the GRE, however, my command of the English language was at native level and I had read hundreds of advanced books in English. Both my math and verbal section scores were pretty close to each other, only off by 20 points, both 99 percentile.

    The point is that my IQ hadn’t changed, but my vocabulary and the general command of the English language improved greatly during those years. So my quantitative scores remained pretty much the same for all those tests, but my verbal scores improved (not hugely, but enough to notice).

    Read More
  126. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife’s Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of ‘em.

    No, just for people like “Educational Realist” who spout a lot of racial envy without evidence.

    I know this is a difficult concept for you, but dislike of one or several white persons does not equal hatred of white people in general. Setting aside other white people, I view most of my fellow Americans (a large majority of who are whites) as decent, hardworking, and Christian people to whom I owe my allegiance.

    As I mentioned in another thread, that allegiance extends to even people like you who are obstinately unreasonable and hate-filled. I’d defend you and your children to the last drop of my blood if you were attacked by non-Americans (or by American domestic criminals), because whether you like it or not, you are a part of my larger tribe.

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia — and YOU are it.

    Yes, yes, it’s clear that you have a mouth-frothing resentment about me. Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they’re just brown “white” people who don’t “cheat,” so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys “picked all the low-hanging fruit”

    I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    I don’t want to write a novel-length response, so let’s just say that periods of scientific, economic, and military-political dominance by various regions in the vast expanse of the Eurasian continent have shifted back and forth among different groups for the past several thousand years. For example, Scandinavians are today lauded for their clean, rich, highly technologically advanced and orderly societies, but until relatively recently (say, the 18th-19th Centuries), their countries were quite backward and poor. Even at the height of its empire building during the 18th Century, Sweden remained behind many European powers and this intellectual and material poverty was one of the reasons why it could not sustain the brilliant conquests of men like Gustavus Adolphus.

    White nationalist/supremacist types would like to conflate all whites together as if there existed a single continuum of (particular set of) genetics-driven scientific achievements through the millennia, but that’s an ideological construct of modern Western Europeans who fancied themselves as successors to the glories of classical Rome and Greece even though to the builders of the Latino and Hellenic civilizations the Germanic ancestors of the latter-day Western Europeans were smelly barbarians incapable of building complex polities and cities. Where was the Great Albion while glories of Rome were still fresh?

    Unless there are dramatic IQ differences (e.g. sub-Saharan Africans and Meso-Americans), there are ebbs and flows to complex civilizations, in which some regions temporarily excel over others and so forth. “The Rise of the West” beginning with the 17th Century was a phenomenon that was strongly to tied to the revolution in military affairs that shifted from the southern European dominance to a northern and western one.

    So, looking at it continent-wide, there are certainly HBD scientists (e.g. the late Phil Rushton) who surmised that the period of Western supremacy may be nearing an end and that the East may be reaching a period of parity (at least) with the West.

    Certainly if we were to use patents per capita as a proxy for general creativeness/inventiveness, East Asians seem to be doing well of late: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Patents-granted

    If you opened any serious peer-reviewed scientific journal today, you would see that great many articles are authored by those with Asian surnames in fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, and so on. East Asia has awakened from its long period of intellectual and civilizational slumber and has undergone a very rapid scientific advancement and industrialization. And they are beginning to flex their muscle globally.

    While I am happy that such Asian gains have resulted in far fewer people living in poverty around the world, as an American I look at this general trend with some caution and worry since some of these countries (the most notable of which is China) may become a rival to my country, the United States, for global hegemony.

    Read More
  127. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous
    Pick up a Korean-language Sunday newspaper from Palisades Park, NJ, and you will find a huge education section. In it you will see ad after ad of test prep centers along with former students and their SAT scores and which colleges they were accepted to. No doubt Koreans might, on average, have a little IQ advantage, but their success is 95% brute force hard work. Same with Jews, who are neurotically hardworking. If one truly accepted the statistics and IQ distribution, East Asians and Jews are over-represented in academic achievement, big time. Unless, of course, there is more to it that simply IQ. But I'll bet Murray has personal reasons for not wanting to accept this. He was raised by a schoolmarm and he strikes me as being as serious at the age of 10 as he is now. He studied history and social science. He failed out of linear algebra. But of course, his getting into Harvard and MIT was due solely to his high IQ.

    Murray flunked Linear Algebra? Really? It is a by far the easiest advanced math course because it’s well…Algebra. Nothing compared to Mathematical Statistics or Differential Equations or Vector Calculus.

    If you look at all of the Policy nitwits that are released from Harvard Yard to infect the rest of us with dopey ideas, most probably can’t add 2 and 2.

    Read More
  128. @namae nanka

    The probability of entering and remaining in an intellectually elite profession such as Physician, Judge, Professor, Scientist, Corporate Executive, etc. increases with IQ to about 133. It then falls about 1/3 by 140. By 150 IQ the probability has fallen by 97%!
     
    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html

    http://michaelwferguson.blogspot.com/p/the-inappropriately-excluded-by-michael.html

    This is due to boredom and disaffection with the process entirely. Kids at the extreme end of the bell curve don’t fit in classes with their “peers” nor do they fit with classes of older kids when they skip grades. They can be very hard to teach as often they don’t learn in the same manner the regular kids do. And of course perhaps worst of all is that they see directly through all the BS the schools and parents try to feed them.

    Read More
  129. @Reg Cæsar

    What Americans think of as test prep and what Asians think of as test prep are entirely different things.

     

    My "test prep" in the mid-'70s consisted of staying up till 3am listening to LPs with my new Koss headphones. (Like too many other school nights!)

    The brand-new chain bookstore-- B Dalton or Walden, I forget-- had a ceiling-to-floor bookcase of test-prep guides, but they were mostly for things like firefighter and refrigeration specialist exams, not aptitude tests. I didn't see a need to "game" the SAT because it was already a game, like spending Saturday morning at the pinball arcade.

    I don't know what formal prep would have done. My score got me into engineering school (2nd choice), and later Mensa. But that's no good when your ADD percentile is just as high. I didn't need an élite school, but a patient and forgiving one.

    My counselor was annoying, but she was probably on to something when she suggested I go to a 2-year state tech "starter" school despite the high scores. A gap year (who'd ever heard of that?) or going directly into the service would have been a smarter move.

    Sometimes your test score can be too high for your own good!

    and later Mensa

    Once in, did you see any point in sticking around? Or get booted for “acts inimical to Mensa”?

    Read More
  130. @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JSM
    "It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration."

    Yeppers. Asians, while smart, are conformist and lacking in creativity. Hence, once they figure out something that works pretty good, by golly, they stick with it. And stick with it...and several centuries later, are still sticking with it, until White guys come sailing up and make them change their ways.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys who, given the chance, would explore not just the world but the solar system, by importing stick-in-the-mud Asians to take their places in elite schools and innovative institutions. I wanna see us go back to the moon and see O'Neill colonies built, darn it! And looking to the Japs to make it happen is ...unjustifiably optimistic, to say the least.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys from importing the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys (or at least, so he boasts.)
    , @Twinkie

    First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita.
     
    This is oft repeated among white nationalist/supremacist circles, but never substantiated. Steve Hsu (who is linked on Mr. Sailer's blog roll) investigated this in 2008: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    He found that the standard deviation for northeast Asians was close (95) to that of the OECD (90), and was actually a bit higher, meaning there are slightly *more* East Asians at the extreme ends per capita than among Europeans. Indeed, Finns (!) actually exhibited the curvier SD at 80 (meaning more people in the middle than at the edges).

    So we will have to look to another explanation.

    Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon).
     
    I think this might contribute a bit to the answer. Northeast Asians seem to have greater social conformity, lower sociability, and greater risk-aversion than the European average (but they are pretty close to the Nordics who also exhibit similar traits), likely due to both genetic and cultural reasons.

    But it isn't as if NE Asians didn't engage in explorations in sailing ships. The eunuch admiral Cheng Ho of China famously led seven epic voyages in huge ships with tens of thousands of men to India, the Middle East, and East Africa long before Europeans ventured into the high seas.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.
  131. @E. Rekshun
    Asians think of test prep as getting as many answers right as possible, ideally without any understanding of the underlying material necessary.

    Though it rarely happens, this is how the low-socioeconomic high-school students "learn" calculus. (Like the "true story" of those Hispanic students in "Stand and Deliver.") They're just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to "solve" a very small set of calculus problems.

    They’re just memorizing a set of step-by-step procedures to “solve” a very small set of calculus problems.

    Exactly. If you can learn in 9th grade that y = x^2 – 3x + 2 crosses the x axis at 1 and 2, then three years later you can surely learn that the slope of that same function is 2x-3.

    Read More
  132. @Stan D Mute

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???
     
    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.

    “It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration.”

    Yeppers. Asians, while smart, are conformist and lacking in creativity. Hence, once they figure out something that works pretty good, by golly, they stick with it. And stick with it…and several centuries later, are still sticking with it, until White guys come sailing up and make them change their ways.

    Can’t see any benefit to smart White boys who, given the chance, would explore not just the world but the solar system, by importing stick-in-the-mud Asians to take their places in elite schools and innovative institutions. I wanna see us go back to the moon and see O’Neill colonies built, darn it! And looking to the Japs to make it happen is …unjustifiably optimistic, to say the least.

    Can’t see any benefit to smart White boys from importing the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys (or at least, so he boasts.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys
     
    Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?

    By the way, most likely my half-white children will marry white spouses (that's statistically very likely indeed and given our social situation doubly so). That means my grandchildren would be 3/4 white, 1/4 East Asian. If they also married whites, my great grandchildren would be 7/8 white, 1/8 East Asian (and of course their kids would be 15/16 white, 1/16 East Asian).

    This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like: https://thegoodgreatsby.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kate-beckinsale-kate-beckinsale.jpg

    That's not white enough for your descendants?

    My children, boys and girls, have been raised as virtuous, God-fearing, patriotic Americans. They are also smart and athletic. Their future spouses will be lucky to have them as marriage partners. I don't see why this is a net negative for the country.

  133. Twinkie said in reply to something I said:

    “I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.”

    Then Twinkie said:

    “Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they’re just brown “white” people who don’t “cheat,” so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?”

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.
     
    In another thread, I believe you wrote something to the effect of "Hispanic immigration is a problem, but the real problem is the Asians!" You seem to be prioritizing preventing Asian immigration over Hispanic one.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!
     
    While I'd like to leave a small number of immigration slots open (say 1-5% of the current *legal* immigration level) for the latter-day Wernher von Brauns of the world who want to be Americans (meaning, highly skills-based), I'd prefer a total immigration moratorium over just about any other policy recommendation, including the status quo.

    I believe you know I hold this position, and I also believe you are intelligent enough to know that that's a far "harder" line position than what immigration policy position the vast majority of even whites hold in this country.

    I am courteous enough to address most and, usually, all of your wild assertions. Yet because you are unhealthily obsessed about my marrying a white woman, you drive by-froth at me at every opportunity.

    So, JSM, is Kate Beckinsale not white enough for you?
  134. @Nathan Wartooth
    But not for the reasons that you think.

    Women don't want to marry a guy who makes less than they do. The ugly smart women who make a lot of money are in the worst position of all.

    Easy prey for callous types who know how to manipulate the emotions. Her IQ doesn’t help her in that area.

    Read More
  135. @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    I never heard that claim, but anyone who thinks Newton’s laws of motion are “low-hanging fruit” doesn’t really understand them.

    Read More
  136. Civilization is a limitless multiplication of unnecessary necessities. ó Mark Twain

    Wall Street has expanded failure on a global basis. We’re exporting bad fast food and corn syrup drinks to cultures that had stable diets for centuries to deliver shareholder value and low wage work. California is making a mint exporting nothing other than the ability to search for it or book it without books. With no old products to worry about, you are thenew product. You are selling you. You’re the prisoner of your own price tag. Get in on the corn syrup and we can sell them needles and diabetic pharma solutions. Get them fattened up and sell them diet plans. Sell them cars and open filling stations, muffler shops and bad food. Mail more plastic to cover their sorry asses. We’re losing billions on the postal failure and trillions on the bad boomer pensions. Check your credit scores and score more bailouts. Preacher man said send a donation cause he’s worried about your soul. Little church failed, so pack them into the megachurch and shake them down.

    Read More
  137. @Stan D Mute

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???
     
    I posit this is result of two (or more) factors. First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita. Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration. And of course advances in science build upon one another so it helps much when your smart fraction risk-takers are close enough to learn from one another.

    First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita.

    This is oft repeated among white nationalist/supremacist circles, but never substantiated. Steve Hsu (who is linked on Mr. Sailer’s blog roll) investigated this in 2008: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    He found that the standard deviation for northeast Asians was close (95) to that of the OECD (90), and was actually a bit higher, meaning there are slightly *more* East Asians at the extreme ends per capita than among Europeans. Indeed, Finns (!) actually exhibited the curvier SD at 80 (meaning more people in the middle than at the edges).

    So we will have to look to another explanation.

    Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon).

    I think this might contribute a bit to the answer. Northeast Asians seem to have greater social conformity, lower sociability, and greater risk-aversion than the European average (but they are pretty close to the Nordics who also exhibit similar traits), likely due to both genetic and cultural reasons.

    But it isn’t as if NE Asians didn’t engage in explorations in sailing ships. The eunuch admiral Cheng Ho of China famously led seven epic voyages in huge ships with tens of thousands of men to India, the Middle East, and East Africa long before Europeans ventured into the high seas.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.
     
    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-asian-divergence-predates.html

    He has some other stuff at that site including a very interesting posting on Dead Reckoning and the Exploration Explosion and the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2012/10/dead-reckoning-and-exploration-explosion.html
  138. @JSM
    "Low IQ white nationalists/supremacists are"... "you are resentful of kids who will amount to more than you did"....

    The Asian supremacy is strong in this one.

    For a guy who *claims* to love and have assimilated to his wife's Southern people, he sure has a lot of contempt for a whole lot of 'em.


    "are enough good reasons to oppose mass migration from Asia"

    and there are enough good reasons to oppose ANY immigration from Asia -- and YOU are it.

    ****

    Here's tonight's question for the Audience Participation section of our show:

    Asian supremacists tell us the reason that modern East Asians, despite all their extra IQ points, have not made the kinds of scientific breakthroughs like, say, Newton and Gauss and Maxwell, is NOT, repeat NOT due to cheating or lack of creative thinking, but simply because us Whiteys "picked all the low-hanging fruit" and now it's much harder to make groundbreaking discoveries; in other words, that White guys did all the major discovering early on because they were such easy concepts.

    Okay...so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn't THEY do the "easy" pickings? Hmmmm???

    Okay…so, if Law of Gravity and electricity=magnetism are such easy pickings, how COME these mental giants in Asia, who, after all, have had settled civilizations and IQ tests for millennia before the European Renaissance, had to wait for Whitey to get it together enough to DO the easy discoveries? Why didn’t THEY do the “easy” pickings? Hmmmm???

    My guess would be that the system of mathematics used prior to then was not conducive to advances in the physical sciences. The creation of the calculus which is the basic language of physics and engineering is what made the difference.

    I did see a TV show once where a old book was written over by monks. The underlying book seemed to be by Archimedes where he theorized infinity and possibly calculus. Imagine what might have happened if he wasn’t murdered and the Roman engineers had calculus.

    Read More
  139. @JSM
    "It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon). As Galileo taught us, there is risk in challenging the status quo even if it is purely mental exploration."

    Yeppers. Asians, while smart, are conformist and lacking in creativity. Hence, once they figure out something that works pretty good, by golly, they stick with it. And stick with it...and several centuries later, are still sticking with it, until White guys come sailing up and make them change their ways.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys who, given the chance, would explore not just the world but the solar system, by importing stick-in-the-mud Asians to take their places in elite schools and innovative institutions. I wanna see us go back to the moon and see O'Neill colonies built, darn it! And looking to the Japs to make it happen is ...unjustifiably optimistic, to say the least.

    Can't see any benefit to smart White boys from importing the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys (or at least, so he boasts.)

    the likes of Twinkie, who not only himself takes a White woman, who will therefore never make more White boys, but his mixed boys are ALSO are stealing White girls from White boys

    Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?

    By the way, most likely my half-white children will marry white spouses (that’s statistically very likely indeed and given our social situation doubly so). That means my grandchildren would be 3/4 white, 1/4 East Asian. If they also married whites, my great grandchildren would be 7/8 white, 1/8 East Asian (and of course their kids would be 15/16 white, 1/16 East Asian).

    This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like: https://thegoodgreatsby.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/kate-beckinsale-kate-beckinsale.jpg

    That’s not white enough for your descendants?

    My children, boys and girls, have been raised as virtuous, God-fearing, patriotic Americans. They are also smart and athletic. Their future spouses will be lucky to have them as marriage partners. I don’t see why this is a net negative for the country.

    Read More
  140. “Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?”

    Uh, If I may be so forward as to interject, I think I have to go with J-Sim on this one.

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment, as in WHITE NATION. I’ve never heard of a white and yellow nationalist (until you came aboard, but, ey, to each his own.) As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.

    Therefore, no matter how much time you spend teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard. No matter how obsequious and fawning you are, and no matter how much you insist that you have a large cock, you are an interloper, your wife is a race traitor, and your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.

    Now, they will temporarily back of of this stance when I walk into the room with my white wife, but the moment I leave BOOM! right between your two, single epicanthic folds.

    OK, now that gag reflex you’re experiencing for the first time after 40-some odd years, Mr. Anderson, that nasty aftertaste, keep in mind; that’s just the purple pill.

    “This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:”

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:

    http://www.arogundade.com/is-actress-jennifer-beals-black-or-biracial-her-ethnicity-race-nationality-and-parents.html

    Her parents are shown below. Yep, eventually, the “undesirable” bleaches out.

    Hate…Playa…Game…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment
     
    You are going to have do define "this" to make any kind of sense here.

    I wouldn't be surprised by this kind of a reaction on Stormfront or Amren (though there seem to be quite a few Amren commenters who do not harbor hostility toward white-Asian pairings, and may be in such relationships themselves). But the last time I checked iSteve is a "citizenist" blog.

    your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.
     
    Who knows what the demographics of "Unzistas" are. I don't think you know. We have *some* sense of what the commenters are like, but in that regard, we are talking of a very small minority of a very small minority of a very small minority of white Americans. And even amongst that tiny number, I only see a handful of folks who seem bent out of shape about white-Asian pairings.

    Most folks here seem to be citizenists to me. Certainly the vast majority of whites I know well enough in real life are assimilationists.

    As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.
     
    What's with the feigned moral outrage? Of course she has right to her opinion, whatever the quality of that opinion. Who suggested otherwise? It's her God-given right as an American to hold whatever views she likes and it is my God-given right as an American to tell her where I think she is wrong. I don't see why you are acting like some sort of a unique champion of such rights here.

    But I do take some amusement at the interesting temporary alliance of convenience between a frothing at the mouth white nationalist ("stole" "white woman") and a black "Gentle Giant" apologist.

    “This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:”

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:
     
    I don't think this is a contest, but objectively-speaking I think Kate Beckinsale looks far more NW European than Jennifer Beals does (perhaps because Beckinsale IS far more NW European genetically than Beals). So I don't quite get what your point is.

    This is an issue of intermarriage and assimilation. East Asians tend to do so with whites. Blacks do not, something even the NY Times "worried" about as early as 1998: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/16/magazine/the-beige-and-the-black.html

    Thus, the old duality between whites and nonwhites is finally breaking down. But don't cheer just yet. For what seems to be emerging in the United States is a new dichotomy between blacks and nonblacks. Increasingly, whites, Asians and Hispanics are creating a broad community from which black Americans may be excluded.
     
  141. @Truth
    "Ah, now I see the crux of the matter. Do you have children who are having trouble finding mates or something?"

    Uh, If I may be so forward as to interject, I think I have to go with J-Sim on this one.

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment, as in WHITE NATION. I've never heard of a white and yellow nationalist (until you came aboard, but, ey, to each his own.) As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.

    Therefore, no matter how much time you spend teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard. No matter how obsequious and fawning you are, and no matter how much you insist that you have a large cock, you are an interloper, your wife is a race traitor, and your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.

    Now, they will temporarily back of of this stance when I walk into the room with my white wife, but the moment I leave BOOM! right between your two, single epicanthic folds.

    OK, now that gag reflex you're experiencing for the first time after 40-some odd years, Mr. Anderson, that nasty aftertaste, keep in mind; that's just the purple pill.

    "This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:"

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:

    http://www.arogundade.com/is-actress-jennifer-beals-black-or-biracial-her-ethnicity-race-nationality-and-parents.html

    Her parents are shown below. Yep, eventually, the "undesirable" bleaches out.

    Hate...Playa...Game...

    No Twinx, the crux is that this is a WHITE NATIONALIST establishment

    You are going to have do define “this” to make any kind of sense here.

    I wouldn’t be surprised by this kind of a reaction on Stormfront or Amren (though there seem to be quite a few Amren commenters who do not harbor hostility toward white-Asian pairings, and may be in such relationships themselves). But the last time I checked iSteve is a “citizenist” blog.

    your kids are mongrels to a certain percentage of the white population, and a larger percentage of the Unzistas.

    Who knows what the demographics of “Unzistas” are. I don’t think you know. We have *some* sense of what the commenters are like, but in that regard, we are talking of a very small minority of a very small minority of a very small minority of white Americans. And even amongst that tiny number, I only see a handful of folks who seem bent out of shape about white-Asian pairings.

    Most folks here seem to be citizenists to me. Certainly the vast majority of whites I know well enough in real life are assimilationists.

    As an American, she has the right to her opinion, as do you, Vladimir.

    What’s with the feigned moral outrage? Of course she has right to her opinion, whatever the quality of that opinion. Who suggested otherwise? It’s her God-given right as an American to hold whatever views she likes and it is my God-given right as an American to tell her where I think she is wrong. I don’t see why you are acting like some sort of a unique champion of such rights here.

    But I do take some amusement at the interesting temporary alliance of convenience between a frothing at the mouth white nationalist (“stole” “white woman”) and a black “Gentle Giant” apologist.

    “This is what a 7/8 white, 1/8 Asian person looks like:”

    And this is what a half-black half-white person looks like:

    I don’t think this is a contest, but objectively-speaking I think Kate Beckinsale looks far more NW European than Jennifer Beals does (perhaps because Beckinsale IS far more NW European genetically than Beals). So I don’t quite get what your point is.

    This is an issue of intermarriage and assimilation. East Asians tend to do so with whites. Blacks do not, something even the NY Times “worried” about as early as 1998: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/16/magazine/the-beige-and-the-black.html

    Thus, the old duality between whites and nonwhites is finally breaking down. But don’t cheer just yet. For what seems to be emerging in the United States is a new dichotomy between blacks and nonblacks. Increasingly, whites, Asians and Hispanics are creating a broad community from which black Americans may be excluded.

    Read More
  142. You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now? In direct opposition to just about everything you’ve said about what you belive in, before? There’s only one thing I can say about that…

    My N-! You catch on quick!!!

    I didn’t think you were going to make it, because you seem like such a “nice” guy, but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas. I couldn’t have done it better myself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now?
     
    I quote major newspapers all the time, including NY Times and WaPo. They do, you know, carry the news. Their editorials are completely batty and they try very hard to pick and choose news items that support their agenda, but they can't completely hide the facts, especially when there is something to be outraged about such as the de facto segregation of blacks from non-blacks.

    If you don't believe the phenomenon of the de facto segregation (both voluntary and economic-social) of blacks from non-blacks, take a look at the raw data yourself:

    http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

    but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!
     
    This is why I usually avoid discussion with black people in real life. Many (not all, but many), even so-called educated, blacks are incapable of arguing rationally about socio-economic-political issues that are "sensitive" to them. Soon enough, they get angry, hurl insults, and even become physically aggressive. Such "black intellectuals" were at the vanguard of "activist" assaults and vandalism at my Ivy League alma mater. If some poor soul had the temerity to point out some fact "insulting" to blacks in a student newspaper, there went the newspaper building and the newspapers (building vandalized, newspapers burnt).

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas.
     
    Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.
  143. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Jack D
    I find that somewhat hard to believe. Almost every high school has at least one guidance counselor. Test prep books have been around forever. No one I knew in my rural NJ HS in the '70s took a test prep course - I don't think such a thing even existed in that area at that time. But, I remember getting a Barron's SAT book with practice SAT's. These large paperback volumes have been around forever.

    When it came time for my kids to take the test, I got them the official test prep volume which is now published by the College Board, which consists of 10 previously administered real SATs. If you are bright and take several (or preferably all) of these practice tests under timed conditions and learn from your mistakes, you will do about as well as your education and intelligence will allow you to do without having to take one of those courses.

    Haha that shows what you know. I visited my “counselor” in my senior year in my huge (2100+ student) high school (early 1970′s) for my two minute appointment, and she said “…oh, you should go to college… here you need to take this SAT test.” And when I asked what preparation was needed she said “Um… it says on this paper.. get a good night’s sleep, eat a good breakfast and bring two number 2 pencils to the test.”

    So I did that. That test had all kinds of question formats that I thought were interesting, and had never seen before. I spent a lot of time being curious about the test and some of the reading was interesting. Anyway, I filled in lots of the circles on the answer sheet.

    After the test, we were asked to fill out a questionnaire that asked questions like “How would you compare yourself to other students in math? Are you above average, average or below average?” I thought about it and decided “Average” since I certainly knew kids who were better and some who were worse. I answered the rest of the questions the same way.

    So, a couple of months later, I’m back for another 2 minute counseling session, and she looks at my stuff and then looks at me and says “Can you tell me why you think you’re “Average” in Math and English and so on, when you scored in the 99th percentile on the SAT?”

    I thought for a second and then laughed. All of my friends were the National Merit scholars and so forth. Sampling bias.

    When I told my friends that I didn’t study for the SAT, they looked at me like I was crazy and said “Of course you study for the SAT.” It turns out that their parents were professors and lawyers and doctors.

    My parents, OTOH, were alcoholics who sometimes had to crawl up the stairs at night to get into bed.

    So, there you go. I guess the joke’s on me after all.

    Read More
  144. @SPMoore8
    There seems to be a lot of assumptions about High IQ = High Education = High Income as thought it is a matter of course.

    This is not how I have seen it played out, especially for women and especially for women in previous eras. High IQ can translate to high levels of education, but also only with the caveat that people who are highly intelligent are much more prone to be introspective, and thus socially awkward, and thus likely to suffer from all kinds of pathologies. Furthermore, high education doesn't necessarily lead to high income, and I don't even have in mind the Ph.D.'s who are still living at home.

    Among other things, I worked in the financial sector for decades, and most of my peers and superiors were totally into their work, 24/7 as the saying goes. All of them were extremely bright, 1% easily, but they were not necessarily well educated (as a humanist might use the term) and had no outside intellectual interests. Sometimes that would be due to the fact that they were trying to put their families first, or they were seeking status (second generation immigrants are hungry people), or security via money, or what have you. However the net effect was always the same: they made a lot of money, but rarely used their minds for any interests outside of making money. Not the life for many people.

    There seems to be a bell curve relationshjp between IQ and executive functioning, one I have seen often in the military and business. As one moves up the IQ scale, effectiveness and leadership increase until somewhere around IQ=125, at which point it declines rapidly as you move higher. It is frequently remarked upon among military psychologists. This may be due to higher tendencies among intelligent people toward introspection, or greater curiosity or greater tendency among high-IQ folks to observe and explore than to decide and effect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Muse
    Assuming that the multiple traits that are required for good executive function (working memory, attention, initiative etc. ) are somewhat independent of each other and IQ , AND that the incidence of these traits are normally distributed on the curve like IQ, hitting on all of them at 90th percentile or higher would be exceedingly rare.

    This is why so few people are suitable to be law partners or investment bankers.
  145. @george
    heavily gay - since you brought up the effect on IQ and privilege of a couple having an only child, how about taking your reasoning to the limit, no children.

    The “no children” didn’t take the test, because they do not exist.

    Read More
  146. the crux is

    Tell us what’s on your mind, Truth.

    teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard.

    It ain’t the color of your skin; it’s the color of your brain.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don’t understand that f***ing causes babies.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.
     
    That's the best compliment he's had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
    , @Twinkie

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don’t understand that f***ing causes babies.
     
    My family and I live in a very isolated patch of Appalachia part of the year. We love our neighbors there (they are good, honorable, and kind Christian people and fantastic neighbors). You know what's interesting about Appalachia? Parts of it are *poorer* than black ghettos, I mean really dirt poor, yet have only a small fraction of the violent crime of the latter.

    It's not economics, it's people.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.
     
    I am ethnically East Asian. My wife is white from the rural-exurban Midwest, so our children are half-white. We raised our kids in the South (and spent a lot time in their mother's home town, too, of course), so they are extremely proud and prickly Southerners.

    It's kinda funny, I guess, but my kids can talk with that Tidewater accent pretty well: https://youtu.be/1RzVKCWXrRA

    It's little bit like living with little Henry Cho's: https://youtu.be/0Ca1ozykhJI
    (Except my kids have Tidewater accent and Cho has that East Tennessee accent: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-nuclear-lab-cancels-lose-your-southern-accent-class-n168071).

    When we moved up north to Yankee-occupied South I was a bit concerned about them being ostracized, because they kinda talked "funny" and grew up shooting and hunting, but their new friends really dug their accents. Now they can turn it on and off on a dime. Pretty cool, I think.
  147. @Abe Humbles
    There seems to be a bell curve relationshjp between IQ and executive functioning, one I have seen often in the military and business. As one moves up the IQ scale, effectiveness and leadership increase until somewhere around IQ=125, at which point it declines rapidly as you move higher. It is frequently remarked upon among military psychologists. This may be due to higher tendencies among intelligent people toward introspection, or greater curiosity or greater tendency among high-IQ folks to observe and explore than to decide and effect.

    Assuming that the multiple traits that are required for good executive function (working memory, attention, initiative etc. ) are somewhat independent of each other and IQ , AND that the incidence of these traits are normally distributed on the curve like IQ, hitting on all of them at 90th percentile or higher would be exceedingly rare.

    This is why so few people are suitable to be law partners or investment bankers.

    Read More
  148. @iffen

    the crux is
     
    Tell us what's on your mind, Truth.

    teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard.
     
    It ain't the color of your skin; it's the color of your brain.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don't understand that f***ing causes babies.

    Twink, I didn't know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
     
    I am not proud of being "Asian." I did nothing to earn it. It's just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for "acting white," all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters' dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug
  149. @JSM
    Twinkie said in reply to something I said:

    "I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me."


    Then Twinkie said:

    "Keep at it while the country becomes 30-40% Hispanic/Mestizo in the next few decades. But, hey, they’re just brown “white” people who don’t “cheat,” so life will be just peachy for American folks, right?"

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.

    In another thread, I believe you wrote something to the effect of “Hispanic immigration is a problem, but the real problem is the Asians!” You seem to be prioritizing preventing Asian immigration over Hispanic one.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    While I’d like to leave a small number of immigration slots open (say 1-5% of the current *legal* immigration level) for the latter-day Wernher von Brauns of the world who want to be Americans (meaning, highly skills-based), I’d prefer a total immigration moratorium over just about any other policy recommendation, including the status quo.

    I believe you know I hold this position, and I also believe you are intelligent enough to know that that’s a far “harder” line position than what immigration policy position the vast majority of even whites hold in this country.

    I am courteous enough to address most and, usually, all of your wild assertions. Yet because you are unhealthily obsessed about my marrying a white woman, you drive by-froth at me at every opportunity.

    So, JSM, is Kate Beckinsale not white enough for you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jsm
    Werner Von Braun...cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don't need 'em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he's the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don't need ANY immigration 'tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave -- grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids... first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There's so much, I've forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
  150. @Truth
    You're using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now? In direct opposition to just about everything you've said about what you belive in, before? There's only one thing I can say about that...


    My N-! You catch on quick!!!

    I didn't think you were going to make it, because you seem like such a "nice" guy, but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas. I couldn't have done it better myself.

    You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now?

    I quote major newspapers all the time, including NY Times and WaPo. They do, you know, carry the news. Their editorials are completely batty and they try very hard to pick and choose news items that support their agenda, but they can’t completely hide the facts, especially when there is something to be outraged about such as the de facto segregation of blacks from non-blacks.

    If you don’t believe the phenomenon of the de facto segregation (both voluntary and economic-social) of blacks from non-blacks, take a look at the raw data yourself:

    http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

    but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!

    This is why I usually avoid discussion with black people in real life. Many (not all, but many), even so-called educated, blacks are incapable of arguing rationally about socio-economic-political issues that are “sensitive” to them. Soon enough, they get angry, hurl insults, and even become physically aggressive. Such “black intellectuals” were at the vanguard of “activist” assaults and vandalism at my Ivy League alma mater. If some poor soul had the temerity to point out some fact “insulting” to blacks in a student newspaper, there went the newspaper building and the newspapers (building vandalized, newspapers burnt).

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas.

    Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    "Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it."

    That's actually cute.
  151. @iffen

    the crux is
     
    Tell us what's on your mind, Truth.

    teaching the backwoods, Applachian, walking to their tin shacks barefoot, children, English, no matter how much money you make or how many American flags you put up in the front yard.
     
    It ain't the color of your skin; it's the color of your brain.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don't understand that f***ing causes babies.

    Twink, I didn't know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    Since there is no co-pay for birth control under Obamacare, while hookworm medication requires a co-pay, I say that my folks (people to poor to afford shoes, or too stupid to wear them) are discriminated against as opposed to people who don’t understand that f***ing causes babies.

    My family and I live in a very isolated patch of Appalachia part of the year. We love our neighbors there (they are good, honorable, and kind Christian people and fantastic neighbors). You know what’s interesting about Appalachia? Parts of it are *poorer* than black ghettos, I mean really dirt poor, yet have only a small fraction of the violent crime of the latter.

    It’s not economics, it’s people.

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.

    I am ethnically East Asian. My wife is white from the rural-exurban Midwest, so our children are half-white. We raised our kids in the South (and spent a lot time in their mother’s home town, too, of course), so they are extremely proud and prickly Southerners.

    It’s kinda funny, I guess, but my kids can talk with that Tidewater accent pretty well: https://youtu.be/1RzVKCWXrRA

    It’s little bit like living with little Henry Cho’s: https://youtu.be/0Ca1ozykhJI
    (Except my kids have Tidewater accent and Cho has that East Tennessee accent: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tennessee-nuclear-lab-cancels-lose-your-southern-accent-class-n168071).

    When we moved up north to Yankee-occupied South I was a bit concerned about them being ostracized, because they kinda talked “funny” and grew up shooting and hunting, but their new friends really dug their accents. Now they can turn it on and off on a dime. Pretty cool, I think.

    Read More
  152. @Truth

    Twink, I didn’t know that you were not of the white persuasion.
     
    That's the best compliment he's had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.

    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for “acting white,” all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters’ dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    “all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Anglo-American culture”

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    Of course blacks never assimilated and never will.
    , @The most deplorable one
    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years ...

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities ... and that is worth remembering.
  153. @Twinkie

    You’re using a left-wing, lib-urr-uhl birdcage liner, as the arbiter of truth to temporarilly support your point now?
     
    I quote major newspapers all the time, including NY Times and WaPo. They do, you know, carry the news. Their editorials are completely batty and they try very hard to pick and choose news items that support their agenda, but they can't completely hide the facts, especially when there is something to be outraged about such as the de facto segregation of blacks from non-blacks.

    If you don't believe the phenomenon of the de facto segregation (both voluntary and economic-social) of blacks from non-blacks, take a look at the raw data yourself:

    http://www.coopercenter.org/demographics/Racial-Dot-Map

    but in reality, you are an arrogant, deceptive, and manipulative prick., and there is something to be said about those Asian skills imitation!
     
    This is why I usually avoid discussion with black people in real life. Many (not all, but many), even so-called educated, blacks are incapable of arguing rationally about socio-economic-political issues that are "sensitive" to them. Soon enough, they get angry, hurl insults, and even become physically aggressive. Such "black intellectuals" were at the vanguard of "activist" assaults and vandalism at my Ivy League alma mater. If some poor soul had the temerity to point out some fact "insulting" to blacks in a student newspaper, there went the newspaper building and the newspapers (building vandalized, newspapers burnt).

    May I finally extend an official and heartfelt welcome to the kingdom of the Unzistas.
     
    Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.

    “Yeah, Unz Review is like civilization. A black man apparently built it but whitey (Messrs. Unz and Sailer) stole it.”

    That’s actually cute.

    Read More
  154. “I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.”

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.
     
    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about "intellectual" matters is akin to a black man "teaching" an East Asian differential equations.
  155. @Twinkie

    To which I reply, right back atcha: I don’t know who made that kind of an unintelligent argument, but that wasn’t me.
     
    In another thread, I believe you wrote something to the effect of "Hispanic immigration is a problem, but the real problem is the Asians!" You seem to be prioritizing preventing Asian immigration over Hispanic one.

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!
     
    While I'd like to leave a small number of immigration slots open (say 1-5% of the current *legal* immigration level) for the latter-day Wernher von Brauns of the world who want to be Americans (meaning, highly skills-based), I'd prefer a total immigration moratorium over just about any other policy recommendation, including the status quo.

    I believe you know I hold this position, and I also believe you are intelligent enough to know that that's a far "harder" line position than what immigration policy position the vast majority of even whites hold in this country.

    I am courteous enough to address most and, usually, all of your wild assertions. Yet because you are unhealthily obsessed about my marrying a white woman, you drive by-froth at me at every opportunity.

    So, JSM, is Kate Beckinsale not white enough for you?

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don’t need ‘em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he’s the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don’t need ANY immigration ‘tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave — grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids… first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There’s so much, I’ve forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
     
    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I've been in what I think was the Officer's Recreation Hall or something from that period.
    , @Twinkie

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.
     
    Wernher von Braun was not a "cool guy." He was in the SS and he colluded in the use of slave labor under his command. He was also an "involuntary immigrant" to the U.S.

    But he was a man of great genius about rocketry. Although it is impossible to know whether the U.S. would have made all the advances it made in the field without him, the fact (and the history) is that we had him and it aided our aerospace and ballistic missile development tremendously.

    When I say that I'd like to leave some immigrant spots open for the latter-day von Brauns, I mean people of great utility to our country (especially those who want to come here). If some Swedish or Korean computer science genius wants to come to America, become an American, and help us defend cyber-attacks from Red China, I want a spot for him.

    But this is a very *small* number I am talking about here, fewer than, say, 5% of the current *legal* immigration (and as close to zero *illegal* immigration as possible with border security). I don't understand why that view makes me an Enemy of the People in your mind. I think that's 1,000 times better than the situation we have today.
  156. @Twinkie

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
     
    I am not proud of being "Asian." I did nothing to earn it. It's just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for "acting white," all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters' dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug

    “all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Anglo-American culture”

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    Of course blacks never assimilated and never will.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.
     
    True enough, to some extent. I think it's more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think - it's just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It's often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the "New Jews." They aren't the New Jews - they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It's just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the "far more mellow," "tennis-playing" Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.
  157. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jsm
    Werner Von Braun...cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don't need 'em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he's the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don't need ANY immigration 'tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave -- grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids... first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There's so much, I've forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I’ve been in what I think was the Officer’s Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I’ve been in what I think was the Officer’s Recreation Hall or something from that period.
     
    Side note: for those of you who are aviation buffs, if you are ever in Southern California, pay a visit to the Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino. There might still be a great bar right outside the museum. That bar is a shrine to the great heroes of American aviation and, if it's still there, you will run into some fascinating aviation old-timers. And if you talk right to those fellas, they might even take you to the hangars and show you some amazing vintage airplanes.
    , @JSM
    Yes, at the Natrona County airport, down the road a bit, there's, indeed, a museum made of the only building left standing from the old Army Airforce base. And you are correct, it is the old rec hall. Interesting place to visit: Not only are the belongings of many of the WWII veterans who lived in Wyoming or were stationed at the base displayed there, and the curator can tell you their stories, but also, on the walls is a mural of Wyoming's history.
    See, most of those guys would only be at the air base a few weeks, so the mural was commissioned to provide a quick history lesson. These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.
  158. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Twinkie

    That’s the best compliment he’s had in weeks!

    Just kidding, Twinkie seems somewhat proud, in an odd way, of being Asian.
     
    I am not proud of being "Asian." I did nothing to earn it. It's just something into which I was born.

    I am proud of my wife for the kind of person she is. I am proud of my children for how good they are. And I am proud of being an American, because I believe the United States is the best, the greatest country ever in human existence, and I am deeply grateful for being allowed to be a citizen of this great Republic.

    As for "acting white," all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Angl0-American culture of this great nation. I am a bit like Russell Peters' dad: https://youtu.be/55OmE1L2sug

    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years …

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.
     
    Not his ancestors. Or anybody's (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.
    , @Twinkie

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.
     
    Don't get me wrong - I am extremely grateful for the genetic lottery I won (or simply for being born in a civilized part of the world). But I am not "proud" about it. To me pride is something I ought to have for things I earned.
  159. It’s not economics, it’s people.

    the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance.

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.
     
    The two statements are perfectly compatible.

    In my view, there is a constant feedback loop among genes, environment, and culture. At any given time, a culture is an expression of a particular set of genes in a particular environment. Likewise, genes, over time, are affected by the existing environment and culture. And so goes the environment, which is shaped by a set of genes acting in concert with behavioral constraints/encouragements of an existing culture. None of it is fixed. And yet in some cases auto-catalytic forces in two or three of these variables could effect a powerful and persistent outcome that resists influence of lesser, more minor variables.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?
     
    I've never been the "let the sleeping dogs lie" type of a person. Call it a character flaw.
  160. @Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the '60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    Also, the concept of grade inflation didn't exist, so SATs were used as confirmation about the validity of grades and class rank of the applicant, and so lacked the high-pressure scoring atmosphere of the last couple decades, i.e. the rise of test prep programs.

    83. Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the ’60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    That does not agree with my high school class in the ’60s, with about 170 graduates. One guy got 800 in SAT-Math, and two got 800 in SAT-Verbal. Off the top of my head I can think of 9 who got 750 or above on the Math SAT. Yes, this was a bubble of sort: while 2% nationwide got Merit Scholarship Letters of Commendation or Finalist categories, 10% of my high school class did.
    From The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:

    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test……..

    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation’s most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

    From a high school class of 170, 9 or so scored 750 above the SAT-Math, compared four decades later with 244 Blacks out of 150,000 nation wide. Don’t know what that means, but it doesn’t sound good.

    BTW, I came from a time when one didn’t study for the SAT. I took the GRE twice in the three decades after high school, and for what it’s worth, scored higher than on the SAT. Without much study.

    But as someone with high SAT scores, my take on it is that while they may help, anything worth achieving will occur only with a lot of work- blood sweat and tears, as it were. Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score. At the same time, I doubt that many STEM professionals have SAT-Math scores of below 500- SAT counts for something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score.
     
    Well, that depends. I know a teacher who has some black and Mexican students who have a strong work ethic but are too dumb to understand the material (Geometry and above).

    It is a waste for those students to try to complete high school and go to college. They should be out there getting trained in motor vehicle repair, carpentry, plumbing etc where they can make a very good living with the work ethic they have.
  161. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @The most deplorable one
    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years ...

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities ... and that is worth remembering.

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.

    Not his ancestors. Or anybody’s (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one

    Not his ancestors. Or anybody’s (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.
     
    His ancestors likely killed those who are no longer in the gene pool, as did mine.
  162. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Twinkie

    First, it appears the shape of the curve is different for whites versus East Asians. While East Asians are somewhat smarter on average, there are more whites at the extreme ends per capita.
     
    This is oft repeated among white nationalist/supremacist circles, but never substantiated. Steve Hsu (who is linked on Mr. Sailer's blog roll) investigated this in 2008: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    He found that the standard deviation for northeast Asians was close (95) to that of the OECD (90), and was actually a bit higher, meaning there are slightly *more* East Asians at the extreme ends per capita than among Europeans. Indeed, Finns (!) actually exhibited the curvier SD at 80 (meaning more people in the middle than at the edges).

    So we will have to look to another explanation.

    Second, whites seem more likely to be mavericks. It was whites who got on sailing ships to explore and map the world (and later the moon).
     
    I think this might contribute a bit to the answer. Northeast Asians seem to have greater social conformity, lower sociability, and greater risk-aversion than the European average (but they are pretty close to the Nordics who also exhibit similar traits), likely due to both genetic and cultural reasons.

    But it isn't as if NE Asians didn't engage in explorations in sailing ships. The eunuch admiral Cheng Ho of China famously led seven epic voyages in huge ships with tens of thousands of men to India, the Middle East, and East Africa long before Europeans ventured into the high seas.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.

    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-asian-divergence-predates.html

    He has some other stuff at that site including a very interesting posting on Dead Reckoning and the Exploration Explosion and the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2012/10/dead-reckoning-and-exploration-explosion.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:
     
    Of course, the Western European dominance of the last three hundred years or so did not just arise out of thin air. There were pre-conditions that made that dominance possible.

    But I would argue that the growing power imbalance between Western Europe and, say, China was also, in part, due to the relative decline of the latter during those centuries. Just as the Europeans were venturing into the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, the Chinese retreated from them due to their own domestic reasons.

    the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:
     
    He has some interesting speculations and theories, but he is wrong about the Chinese maritime technologies of the period immediately preceding the European explosion into the high seas. To wit: http://mycoordinates.org/zheng-he%E2%80%99s-sailing-to-west-ocean/all/1/

    3 THE TECHNOLOGY

    Various advanced technologies of the time were employed by Zheng He and his fleet to make the great feat. He successfully inherited the practice of former navigators in Chinese history and assimilated their ocean-going knowledge. He selected excellent sailors, made thorough preparations and built various types of seaworthy ships equipped with well-designed devices such as stabilization boards, watertight compartments, precise compass, and star boards. Based on the knowledge of his predecessors and the sea-going practice of his own, he prepared scientific navigation charts, which are of great value in history. He inherited and innovated the Chinese tradition of navigation through celestial observation. By inventing the technique of star board measurement for determining the height of celestial bodies and thus positioning, he elevated the navigation technology to a new level. He also had studied the general patterns of monsoon in the in the Chinese sea area, Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea and made effective use of these studies in his trip. The following subsections are contributed to part of the technologies employed by Zheng He and his fleet.

    3.1 Ship building

    China has a long history of building ships. The general design featured vertical sails, with neither horizontal sails nor fastening ropes. The sails were usually made of cloth or woven by bamboo chips stiffened by bamboo poles for wind-efficiency. With centuries of experience in building ship to sail storm-tossed oceans, the Chinese marine engineers had evolved a robust frame built in sections. Each section was contained by watertight bulkheads at either end, resembling the internal partitions of a bamboo. The watertight sections were bolted together with brass pins weighing several kilograms. Three layers of hardwood were nailed to a teak frame, and then the planks were caulked (made waterproof) with coir (coconut fibre) and sealed with a mixture of boiled tung-tree oil and lime. This hard, waterproof lacquer had been used to seal Chinese ocean-going ships since the seventh century, but so much tung-tree oil was required to build Zheng He’s treasure fleets that acres of land along the Yangtze banks were acquired to plant orchards of tung trees.

    Marine engineers at the Longjiang shipyards designed their ships to survive the fiercest storms on the open ocean. Reinforced bows enabled the vessel to smash through the waves, and at either side of the bow were channels leading to internal compartments. As the square bow pitched in heavy seas, water was funnelled in; as the bow surfaced above the waves, the water drained out, modifying the pitching motion. A teak keel bound together by iron hoops ran the length of the ship, and specially cut, large rectangular stones – or composite stone and mud balls – were packed around it for ballast. Additional keels that could be raised and lowered were fitted at either side for more stability. In a storm, semi-submersible sea anchors could also be thrown overboard to reduce rolling. Even in the roughest weather and sea conditions, pitching and rolling were greatly reduced by these ingenious modifications. With the sophisticated technologies China was able to build largest ship of the world at the time. Some record noted the treasure ship is as large as 132m in length and 54m of width. Figure 2 compares the treasure ship to Columbus’s St. Maria.

    ship

    The giant ship could survive typhoons and the sectional construction reduced the risk of sinking in case of a collision with a reef or an iceberg. They were designed to remain afloat even if two compartments were flooded after being punctured by coral or ice. To increase cargo capacity, the hulls of the junks were very wide compared with their length and they were float-bottomed. Their sails were balanced lugs, four-sided sails hanging from a yardarm set at an oblique angle – the characteristic sail of China. They were stiffened by a series of bamboo battens, so the design was extremely efficient when sailing before the wind. It also allowed the sails to be reefed, or lowered, quickly in an emergency.
    A story tells that Zheng He’s flagship was once holed on a reef but its triple hull and watertight compartments enabled him to reach Malacca without sinking, according to some legend.
    It is also proposed that we can envisage the development of modern shipping industry by comparing that of Zheng He’s time. Shipbuilding at the time had shown the characteristics of large size, high speed and specialization (Yang & Jin 2005).

    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.2 Celestial fixing

    Zheng He developed a whole set of navigation technology by looking at stars. Accompanying Zheng He’s nautical chart, there were four stellar diagrams. Figure 3 shows portions of two of them. Those diagrams passed on by Zheng He have not only enabled us to recapture the stars observed by navigators but also revealed the secrets of ancient navigation.

    Zheng He was able to determine his latitude by measuring the height of Polaris to the north and Southern Cross to the south. Twelve star boards (Fig.4) were used depending on the different height of the stars. The size of the largest board is around 24 cm by 24 cm (12 fingers as it was termed at the time, using the size of human thumb) and the smallest, 2 cm by 2 cm (1 finger), with 2 cm difference in succession (Zhao 2005). By using the attached thread, around 60 cm in length, the observer was able to fix the distance from the eye to the board, thus fix the angle of observation of the board, about 1.9° per finger. When observing the celestial bodies, the observer aligned the star on the upper side of the board and the horizon to the lower side, and thus the height of the star was determined. According to different heights of the stars, different sized boards could be used. By using Zheng He’s method, the positioning error could be controlled within 4.5 nautical miles, which was far superior to the general level at that time (Zhao 2005).

    portions

    Figure 3. Portions of stellar diagrams

    boards

    Figure 4. Star boards

    Menzies (2003) describes quite clearly astro-navigation of the fleet. The fleet used Polaris in the northern hemisphere. But when they were in Indian Ocean, and altered course to the southwest, southern Africa. Polaris, the Chinese guiding star, would have sunk closer and closer to the horizon and become invisible at 3°40¢N, north of Mogadishu in Somalia. Until they found another guiding star in the southern hemisphere to fulfil the same purpose as Polaris in the north, they were sailing into the unknown. The Chinese needed a star in the southern hemisphere to replace Polaris in the northern, and in the event they selected two: Canopus for latitude and the Southern Cross for navigation, they would have to sail far into the icy waters of the Deep South to locate the stars. To use Canopus for latitude, the Chinese had to determine its precise position by sailing to a point directly underneath the star. The Southern Cross points to the South Pole, but unlike Polaris, it is not directly above the Pole. To be able to use the Southern Cross for accurate navigation, the Chinese also had to locate its position in the sky – its height and longitude. Once again, the only way to calculate the precise position of the Southern Cross was to sail to a position directly beneath it. Menzies believes that only when Canopus and the Southern Cross had been located could new lands in the southern hemisphere be accurately placed on charts. When they reached Mount Adams in the West Falklands, the Chinese cartographers were nearly underneath Canopus. They were taking such pains to fix their position so that they could calculate their precise latitude: 52°40¢S. By cross-referencing Canopus to Polaris they could establish Canopus’s height and then use that star to obtain their latitude anywhere in the southern oceans.
    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.3 Nautical charts
    Zheng He Hanghai Tu (Zheng He’s Nautical Charts) provides comprehensive records of Zheng He’s western voyages. The original chart is a long scroll called “Chart of the course taken by the treasure ship from its start at Longjing to the destinations of foreign lands”. That is one of the achievements of Zheng He in his western sea voyages and also the earliest international chart in the world (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005).

    zheng

    Figure 5. Zheng He’s Nautical Chart

    The charts utilize traditional Chinese landscape painting techniques to portray features such as mountains, islands, bridges, temples, and cities in detailed perspective. Figure 5 illustrates a portion of the chart. These graphic representations enabled the navigators to more easily identify important geographical features from shipboard. The charts include over 530 place names, including over thirty Asian and African countries and regions. Over fifty separate routes are delineated. Navigational data inscribed along the routes, such as compass headings and time notations.

    Zheng He’s nautical charts are of great both historical and practical value. These charts fully reflect the high level of navigational expertise of the time, and indicate that China’s maritime technology had essentially been perfected. It has been proposed that when Columbus, da Gama, Magellan and Cook later made the “discoveries’, they were carrying copies of the Chinese maps with then when they set off on their own journeys into the “unknown” (Menzies 2003).

    3.4 Course and speed measuring

    Compass was the main means used by Zheng He in his epic ocean voyages. The compass was used to fix the direction and “geng” which recorded by Chinese era is used to measure distance.

    The compass used in the treasure ship was a kind of “wet compass”, that is a needle floating in water contained in a circular box with the compass points carved on wooden rim. On the compass there are 24 scales. Each scale, marked by different Chinese characters, represents a direction. The characters provided a way to mark the direction course route lines on the charts. The ship may follow one particular scale mark or follow a point between two scales.

    compass

    Figure 6. Magnetic compass

    Figure 6 shows the magnetic compass used by Zheng He’s fleet. The lower part of the figure is a replica of the compass and the upper shows the bearing correspondents of the Chinese character marks. Figure 7 shows a simple form of a “wet compass” (Xin Yuan-ou 2003).

    megniticcopas

    Figure 7. Simple form of “wet compass”

    Zheng He’s fleet used hourglass to measure the distances it covered. It was an instrument for measuring time by the trickling of sand through small opening from one glass bulb to another below it in fixed period of time, usually a “geng” (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005). “Geng” is a time recording unit, representing one of the five two-hour periods of a night, but here it refers to a unit of distance. Usually one “geng” was 60 li, about 30 kilometers. When taking the measure, they threw a wooden plank into the sea and then walked to the rear of the ship at a certain fixed speed to gauge the ship’s speed. Then route and distance were calculated and drawn on a map. That is what we see as the navigation chart, a precious material for studying Zheng He’s western ocean voyages.

    By using compass and the “geng”, navigators would know the position of the ship in the vast seas.
     
    There's a lot more in that link, so check it out (btw, I don't buy everything in that link, especially all that Chinese "amicability" talk - because Zheng He did engage in "armed diplomacy" in SE Asia, but the sections on the technology are interesting and illuminating).
  163. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anon

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.
     
    Not his ancestors. Or anybody's (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.

    Not his ancestors. Or anybody’s (currently living), for that matter. Those individuals exited the gene pool when they were killed.

    His ancestors likely killed those who are no longer in the gene pool, as did mine.

    Read More
  164. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Gringo
    83. Forbes
    The history of the SATs is one of revision and re-centering scores (seemingly about once a decade). In the ’60s there would have been not much more than a handful of 800 scores nationwide. Now, it appears that many of the top large high schools have one per class.

    That does not agree with my high school class in the '60s, with about 170 graduates. One guy got 800 in SAT-Math, and two got 800 in SAT-Verbal. Off the top of my head I can think of 9 who got 750 or above on the Math SAT. Yes, this was a bubble of sort: while 2% nationwide got Merit Scholarship Letters of Commendation or Finalist categories, 10% of my high school class did.
    From The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:

    In 2005, 153,132 African Americans took the SAT test........

    If we raise the top-scoring threshold to students scoring 750 or above on both the math and verbal SAT — a level equal to the mean score of students entering the nation's most selective colleges such as Harvard, Princeton, and CalTech — we find that in the entire country 244 blacks scored 750 or above on the math SAT and 363 black students scored 750 or above on the verbal portion of the test. Nationwide, 33,841 students scored at least 750 on the math test and 30,479 scored at least 750 on the verbal SAT. Therefore, black students made up 0.7 percent of the test takers who scored 750 or above on the math test and 1.2 percent of all test takers who scored 750 or above on the verbal section.

     
    From a high school class of 170, 9 or so scored 750 above the SAT-Math, compared four decades later with 244 Blacks out of 150,000 nation wide. Don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good.

    BTW, I came from a time when one didn't study for the SAT. I took the GRE twice in the three decades after high school, and for what it's worth, scored higher than on the SAT. Without much study.

    But as someone with high SAT scores, my take on it is that while they may help, anything worth achieving will occur only with a lot of work- blood sweat and tears, as it were. Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score. At the same time, I doubt that many STEM professionals have SAT-Math scores of below 500- SAT counts for something.

    Your work ethic and persistence is much more important than your SAT score.

    Well, that depends. I know a teacher who has some black and Mexican students who have a strong work ethic but are too dumb to understand the material (Geometry and above).

    It is a waste for those students to try to complete high school and go to college. They should be out there getting trained in motor vehicle repair, carpentry, plumbing etc where they can make a very good living with the work ethic they have.

    Read More
  165. @Truth
    "I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born."

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.

    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about “intellectual” matters is akin to a black man “teaching” an East Asian differential equations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    You're telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
    , @Santoculto
    Lol, so rude... zombie!!
  166. @jsm
    Werner Von Braun...cool guy.
    Nonetheless, we don't need 'em.
    I am in Wyoming. I know of a guy who worked in Mission Control during Apollo era. In fact, he's the guy who plotted the new trajectory when Apollo 13 blew up, that got the astronauts home. This guy grew up in Casper, went to high school at Natrona County High School, college at University of Wyoming and got hired because his own best friend was down at NASA and recommended him to be hired, and they worked together during that era, and together during that very event.

    With that kind of talent in our own native guys from humble beginnings, we White Americans don't need ANY immigration 'tall. What we need is for the anti-White male stuff to stop.

    Other examples: Homer Hickam (wrote Rocket Boys, also a movie was made about him and his buds from West Virginia called October Sky). Also, Storey Musgrave -- grew up on a dairy farm fixing tractors, flew all 5 space shuttles, fixed Hubble, holds multiple advanced degrees, including trauma surgery which he did part-time on weekends during his astronaut training, is now a Disney imagineer, has seven kids... first guy to retire from NASA. What else? There's so much, I've forgotten. Oh, yeah, comes to Casper to speak to the elementary age kiddoes.

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.

    Wernher von Braun was not a “cool guy.” He was in the SS and he colluded in the use of slave labor under his command. He was also an “involuntary immigrant” to the U.S.

    But he was a man of great genius about rocketry. Although it is impossible to know whether the U.S. would have made all the advances it made in the field without him, the fact (and the history) is that we had him and it aided our aerospace and ballistic missile development tremendously.

    When I say that I’d like to leave some immigrant spots open for the latter-day von Brauns, I mean people of great utility to our country (especially those who want to come here). If some Swedish or Korean computer science genius wants to come to America, become an American, and help us defend cyber-attacks from Red China, I want a spot for him.

    But this is a very *small* number I am talking about here, fewer than, say, 5% of the current *legal* immigration (and as close to zero *illegal* immigration as possible with border security). I don’t understand why that view makes me an Enemy of the People in your mind. I think that’s 1,000 times better than the situation we have today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Director
    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I'd say he wasn't really a racial or cultural outsider. It's like calling British people in the US migrants. You wouldn't notice the difference without the accent.

    Von Braun as you are discussing it is a red herring.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.
  167. @iffen
    “all immigrants should be proud of assimilating successfully into the native Anglo-American culture”

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    Of course blacks never assimilated and never will.

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think – it’s just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It’s often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the “New Jews.” They aren’t the New Jews – they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It’s just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the “far more mellow,” “tennis-playing” Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead
     
    .


    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian...jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?
    , @Director
    Good god almighty, it's an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.
  168. @The most deplorable one

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
     
    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I've been in what I think was the Officer's Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I’ve been in what I think was the Officer’s Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Side note: for those of you who are aviation buffs, if you are ever in Southern California, pay a visit to the Planes of Fame Air Museum in Chino. There might still be a great bar right outside the museum. That bar is a shrine to the great heroes of American aviation and, if it’s still there, you will run into some fascinating aviation old-timers. And if you talk right to those fellas, they might even take you to the hangars and show you some amazing vintage airplanes.

    Read More
  169. @The most deplorable one
    I am not proud of being “Asian.” I did nothing to earn it. It’s just something into which I was born.

    However, perhaps you should be proud that your ancestors removed the trash from your gene pool unlike some other groups. Trash like the low IQ, those with the inability to control their violent impulses and those without any future time orientation. We Europeans did it by hanging and crucifying such people over a span of about 1,800 years ...

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities ... and that is worth remembering.

    Your ancestors paid the price for your current abilities … and that is worth remembering.

    Don’t get me wrong – I am extremely grateful for the genetic lottery I won (or simply for being born in a civilized part of the world). But I am not “proud” about it. To me pride is something I ought to have for things I earned.

    Read More
  170. @Twinkie

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.
     
    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about "intellectual" matters is akin to a black man "teaching" an East Asian differential equations.

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
     
    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother's basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person's consent. You know a "non-consensual" girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.
  171. @Twinkie

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.
     
    True enough, to some extent. I think it's more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think - it's just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It's often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the "New Jews." They aren't the New Jews - they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It's just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the "far more mellow," "tennis-playing" Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead

    .

    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian…jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian…jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?
     
    I don't worry about being hit by lightning, and I don't play the lottery either.

    But if we are talking about principles, I always taught my children that virtue* matters the most in a human being. Therefore, so long as my children followed that principle, I will continue to support their decisions and choices in life. I have yet to be disappointed (but I do expect some, which is inevitable in life).

    *By virtue I mean it in Aristotelian ethics sense, not some gooey combination of leftist pieties like multiculturalism and "we're all the same" nonsense.
  172. @iffen

    It’s not economics, it’s people.
     

    the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance.
     
    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.


    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.

    The two statements are perfectly compatible.

    In my view, there is a constant feedback loop among genes, environment, and culture. At any given time, a culture is an expression of a particular set of genes in a particular environment. Likewise, genes, over time, are affected by the existing environment and culture. And so goes the environment, which is shaped by a set of genes acting in concert with behavioral constraints/encouragements of an existing culture. None of it is fixed. And yet in some cases auto-catalytic forces in two or three of these variables could effect a powerful and persistent outcome that resists influence of lesser, more minor variables.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?

    I’ve never been the “let the sleeping dogs lie” type of a person. Call it a character flaw.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.
  173. @Truth
    You're telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!

    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother’s basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person’s consent. You know a “non-consensual” girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    of grad school age
     
    Sorry, I meant "of grade school age." I regret the error.
    , @Truth

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.
     
    No my friend, I'm afraid that's a bit of an illogical syllogism:

    You are perfectly within your rights to say that "I" am not one of "your" friends, but to do the opposite is, at best, insufferable arrogance.

    One day Chuang-tzu and a friend
    were walking along a riverbank.

    "How delightfully the fishes are
    enjoying themselves in the water!"
    Chuang-tzu exclaimed.

    "You are not a fish," his friend said.
    "How do you know whether or not
    the fishes are enjoying themselves?"

    "You are not me," Chuang-tzu said.
    "How do you know that I do not know
    that the fishes are enjoying themselves?"
  174. @Twinkie

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
     
    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother's basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person's consent. You know a "non-consensual" girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    of grad school age

    Sorry, I meant “of grade school age.” I regret the error.

    Read More
  175. @Truth

    True enough, to some extent. I think it’s more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead
     
    .


    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian...jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?

    Well now, assimilation tends to become a bad idea, when one of your daughters brings home a nice, intelligent, respectfull, Christian…jet black fiance from Ghana, is this not true?

    I don’t worry about being hit by lightning, and I don’t play the lottery either.

    But if we are talking about principles, I always taught my children that virtue* matters the most in a human being. Therefore, so long as my children followed that principle, I will continue to support their decisions and choices in life. I have yet to be disappointed (but I do expect some, which is inevitable in life).

    *By virtue I mean it in Aristotelian ethics sense, not some gooey combination of leftist pieties like multiculturalism and “we’re all the same” nonsense.

    Read More
  176. @Twinkie

    You’re telling me who my friends are now? Dude, you really are all-powerful!
     
    I am beginning to think that you are an asocial teenager in your mother's basement.

    A friendship is like having a girlfriend in that it requires the other person's consent. You know a "non-consensual" girlfriend is a hostage, right?

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    I do not know who your friends are. But *I* am not one of them. This is a concept that even my youngest child, of grad school age, understands.

    No my friend, I’m afraid that’s a bit of an illogical syllogism:

    You are perfectly within your rights to say that “I” am not one of “your” friends, but to do the opposite is, at best, insufferable arrogance.

    One day Chuang-tzu and a friend
    were walking along a riverbank.

    “How delightfully the fishes are
    enjoying themselves in the water!”
    Chuang-tzu exclaimed.

    “You are not a fish,” his friend said.
    “How do you know whether or not
    the fishes are enjoying themselves?”

    “You are not me,” Chuang-tzu said.
    “How do you know that I do not know
    that the fishes are enjoying themselves?”

    Read More
  177. @Twinkie

    I have trouble with the idea that the same person wrote those two statements.
     
    The two statements are perfectly compatible.

    In my view, there is a constant feedback loop among genes, environment, and culture. At any given time, a culture is an expression of a particular set of genes in a particular environment. Likewise, genes, over time, are affected by the existing environment and culture. And so goes the environment, which is shaped by a set of genes acting in concert with behavioral constraints/encouragements of an existing culture. None of it is fixed. And yet in some cases auto-catalytic forces in two or three of these variables could effect a powerful and persistent outcome that resists influence of lesser, more minor variables.

    Why do you engage with ethnocentric commenters?
     
    I've never been the "let the sleeping dogs lie" type of a person. Call it a character flaw.

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.
     
    Context, please.

    Note I was contrasting "economics" vs. "people," in other words falsifying the notion of economics as the primary causal variable in crime rates, by comparing ghetto blacks with even poorer Appalachian whites who have considerably lower violent crime rates than the former.

    Economics is what I called earlier "a minor variable." Things like income are manifestations of the interplay of genes, environment, and culture rather than major causal factors as the latter three.

    And when I say "people" I don't just mean "race." I mean a group of people who are products of a particular place (and time) and culture who in turn create and shape that place and culture.

    To put simply, race is very important, but it's not everything. I, as Mr. Sailer seemingly does, attribute outcomes to some combination of nature and nurture (he often uses the "fifty-fifty" line as a rough estimate, and I don't think that's a bad starting point).

    There are some folks on these pages who are "nature only." I am not one of them. In real life and in the scientific community, the debate is between the dominant environmentarians who attribute everything or almost everything to nurture and the insurgent hereditarians who attribute nature as a component, meaning nature + nurture.
  178. @Twinkie

    Werner Von Braun…cool guy.
     
    Wernher von Braun was not a "cool guy." He was in the SS and he colluded in the use of slave labor under his command. He was also an "involuntary immigrant" to the U.S.

    But he was a man of great genius about rocketry. Although it is impossible to know whether the U.S. would have made all the advances it made in the field without him, the fact (and the history) is that we had him and it aided our aerospace and ballistic missile development tremendously.

    When I say that I'd like to leave some immigrant spots open for the latter-day von Brauns, I mean people of great utility to our country (especially those who want to come here). If some Swedish or Korean computer science genius wants to come to America, become an American, and help us defend cyber-attacks from Red China, I want a spot for him.

    But this is a very *small* number I am talking about here, fewer than, say, 5% of the current *legal* immigration (and as close to zero *illegal* immigration as possible with border security). I don't understand why that view makes me an Enemy of the People in your mind. I think that's 1,000 times better than the situation we have today.

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider. It’s like calling British people in the US migrants. You wouldn’t notice the difference without the accent.

    Von Braun as you are discussing it is a red herring.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider.
     
    That's rather funny since my wife's grandmother (who was born to German immigrants), when she was a child, was warned not to speak German by her family during the years when Germany was an enemy.

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals. They assimilated, because the hosts and the hosting elites insisted on it... which is what needs to happen now (as well as dramatically reducing legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration).

    Even if we enacted an immigration moratorium as JSM wanted, we still have to assimilate those who are already here rather than have them become pawns of the multiculturalists.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.
     
    Industrial espionage IS indeed rife. But if you knew anything about it, you'd be more careful on Air France front cabins and in Paris hotels hosting defense industry conferences than worrying about most Chinese nationals who are not spies (most Chinese visitors are here to tour and shop, shop, shop). Of course, there ARE spies among Chinese nationals and even some among purported immigrants, and China is a very serious concern, so appropriate countermeasures are warranted.

    And, in case you didn't catch it, I am not keen on immigration from China (or India for that matter, for another reason).
  179. @Twinkie

    This model is rapidly disappearing; and is being replaced by a “salad bowl” model.
     
    True enough, to some extent. I think it's more the case of our elites not insisting on assimilation and lauding multiculturalism instead. Immigrants still do assimilate, I think - it's just that now they are assimilating the destructive native elite sentiments.

    It's often said that East Asians (especially the Chinese and the Indians) are the "New Jews." They aren't the New Jews - they have their own cultural traditions and idiosyncracies. It's just that they are learning to assimilate (and become elites) from Jewish-American elites.

    Asian immigrants who are heavily Christian, especially Protestant Koreans and Catholic Vietnamese, tend to be more resistant to the Jewish model of assimilation due to the obvious religious reasons (and Koreans also tend to be strongly drawn to the more masculine, gun-toting, military traditions of America*), but their children will, by and large, also adopt the dominant elite ethos soon enough in the current climate.

    *Gene Yu, a Taiwanese-American former Green Beret officer who attended West Point, said that about 90% of Asians at West Point during his years were Korean-Americans, and that the hardcore military culture of Korean-Americans was a big culture shock to an ethnic Chinese kid who grew up in the "far more mellow," "tennis-playing" Chinese culture of Cupertino. He recalled somewhat fondly how his roommate his plebe year, a Korean-American from NY, just punched him once, broke his glasses, and laid him flat out when he tried to bully the normally quiet and shy Korean-American cadet verbally over some silly argument.

    Yu has some funny stories about being stationed later in South Korea as well as catching a hellacious Korean C-130 flight from Irbil in Iraq. He talks about how after all that combat in Iraq, it was a mad Korean pilot who made him wish he were dead.

    Good god almighty, it’s an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Good god almighty, it’s an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.
     
    What is "it" in that declaration?
  180. @The most deplorable one

    Chuck Yeager, you know, The Right Stuff guy, born on a farm in West Virginia, spent part of his flight training for 363rd Fighter Squadron at the Army Air Force base in Casper during WWII.
     
    Is that the one that is the current Casper Airport?

    I've been in what I think was the Officer's Recreation Hall or something from that period.

    Yes, at the Natrona County airport, down the road a bit, there’s, indeed, a museum made of the only building left standing from the old Army Airforce base. And you are correct, it is the old rec hall. Interesting place to visit: Not only are the belongings of many of the WWII veterans who lived in Wyoming or were stationed at the base displayed there, and the curator can tell you their stories, but also, on the walls is a mural of Wyoming’s history.
    See, most of those guys would only be at the air base a few weeks, so the mural was commissioned to provide a quick history lesson. These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.
     
    It's not just high testosterone, a lot of pilots have small man complexes, because, well, they are generally short by selection (cockpits are not comfy for tall men).

    I have a very good friend who was an Air Force combat pilot during Vietnam, and back in those days, pilots were apparently like celebrity bachelors loosed upon the Playboy Mansion. It was routine for some pilots to whore and drink all night and crawl into their cockpits early in the morning and get oxygen through their masks to get sober.

    Then again, in the past, people used to die during Red Flag exercises all the time. The Air Force took training very seriously back then and took casualties as the cost of tough and realistic training.

    Those days are LONG GONE. If someone gets hurt or, God forbid, die during training, heads will roll up and down. Regulations are MUCH more strictly enforced. I have a cousin who is a Navy pilot who flew missions in Iraq, and even though he was highly decorated for both valor and performance, he was censured for carrying a personal weapon instead of the issued sidearm (normally that's not much of an issue in an active combat zone, but some REMF ratted him out and insist on making the transgression official).

    There is a lot of "perfumed princes" in the upper echelon of the military now who never saw real combat unlike many junior officers who have been at war for a decade or so now. Many such young combat leaders have left the military in the last several years because of the conflict they had with the REMF bosses who didn't know jack about real war but loved ordering men around like they did.
  181. @Santoculto
    Cognitive tests were designed to measure the concept of intelligence of those who built them.

    And are morally blind tests, which is very important. Note that all the problems that are affecting the West, are precisely caused by this blindness.

    Cognitive tests measure the IQ bureaucrat. Real cognitive tests should measure people's strengths in real time. This is to measure genotypic intelligence, which in the end, is what matters most.

    If there was a real meritocracy, we would not have people who have no empathy in charge of nations.

    Western and Japanese psychometricians studying the Japanese population get essentially identical results despite the considerable cultural differences between Japan and the West.

    Actually in any concrete case phenotypic intelligence is what is important in “real life” not genotypic intelligence. For example if the phenotypic inelligence of a population is depressed below it’s potential genotypic level by say iodine deficiency it is the phenotypic inelligence that actually determines what happens in that population.

    I don’t disagree that empathy is desirable but complaining about IQ tests because they don’t measure empathy is like complaining about a thermometer because it doesn’t measure humidity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    I think you did not understand. Select people only by their high scores on IQ tests, are blind tests, because they are not measuring other traits that are very desirable for the welfare of society and is exactly what is happening today. I do not correlacionei iq tests and empathy directly, but indirectly, just to explain the postulate above I wrote.

    Plus I believe in cognitive diversity, cognitive division (specific) work and especially with regard to macro-decision-making positions, that is, in politics, economy ... in short, the organization of society, the worst people are selected or select themselves, because of the weaknesses of complex social systems, where that one group of nerds can believe that the correlation between high technical and quantitative intelligence and empathy is large enough to mechanically mitigate any risk, but reality shows us that the situation is very different.
  182. @Jim
    Western and Japanese psychometricians studying the Japanese population get essentially identical results despite the considerable cultural differences between Japan and the West.

    Actually in any concrete case phenotypic intelligence is what is important in "real life" not genotypic intelligence. For example if the phenotypic inelligence of a population is depressed below it's potential genotypic level by say iodine deficiency it is the phenotypic inelligence that actually determines what happens in that population.

    I don't disagree that empathy is desirable but complaining about IQ tests because they don't measure empathy is like complaining about a thermometer because it doesn't measure humidity.

    I think you did not understand. Select people only by their high scores on IQ tests, are blind tests, because they are not measuring other traits that are very desirable for the welfare of society and is exactly what is happening today. I do not correlacionei iq tests and empathy directly, but indirectly, just to explain the postulate above I wrote.

    Plus I believe in cognitive diversity, cognitive division (specific) work and especially with regard to macro-decision-making positions, that is, in politics, economy … in short, the organization of society, the worst people are selected or select themselves, because of the weaknesses of complex social systems, where that one group of nerds can believe that the correlation between high technical and quantitative intelligence and empathy is large enough to mechanically mitigate any risk, but reality shows us that the situation is very different.

    Read More
  183. Genotypic intelligence (ability to develop logical, abstract and systematic thinking, notice how this works for all human activities, such as building a house, brick by brick) does not seem to be more important than the phenotype. Incidentally, I do not know what their concepts for both. Contextual or phenotypic intelligence (my concept for this type) does not seem to be very interesting if a significant percentage of intelligent people fail to make logical deductions of phenomena that are happening before their faces, not to mention that they just specialized for this task (according to its most consistent psychological-cognitive profiles).

    Many smart people really look like ”civilized” alphas und betas of Brave New World in many important cognitive aspects (deficits).

    Read More
  184. @iffen
    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.

    Context, please.

    Note I was contrasting “economics” vs. “people,” in other words falsifying the notion of economics as the primary causal variable in crime rates, by comparing ghetto blacks with even poorer Appalachian whites who have considerably lower violent crime rates than the former.

    Economics is what I called earlier “a minor variable.” Things like income are manifestations of the interplay of genes, environment, and culture rather than major causal factors as the latter three.

    And when I say “people” I don’t just mean “race.” I mean a group of people who are products of a particular place (and time) and culture who in turn create and shape that place and culture.

    To put simply, race is very important, but it’s not everything. I, as Mr. Sailer seemingly does, attribute outcomes to some combination of nature and nurture (he often uses the “fifty-fifty” line as a rough estimate, and I don’t think that’s a bad starting point).

    There are some folks on these pages who are “nature only.” I am not one of them. In real life and in the scientific community, the debate is between the dominant environmentarians who attribute everything or almost everything to nurture and the insurgent hereditarians who attribute nature as a component, meaning nature + nurture.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I agree. Poverty does not cause criminal behavior.
  185. @Director
    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I'd say he wasn't really a racial or cultural outsider. It's like calling British people in the US migrants. You wouldn't notice the difference without the accent.

    Von Braun as you are discussing it is a red herring.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider.

    That’s rather funny since my wife’s grandmother (who was born to German immigrants), when she was a child, was warned not to speak German by her family during the years when Germany was an enemy.

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals. They assimilated, because the hosts and the hosting elites insisted on it… which is what needs to happen now (as well as dramatically reducing legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration).

    Even if we enacted an immigration moratorium as JSM wanted, we still have to assimilate those who are already here rather than have them become pawns of the multiculturalists.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.

    Industrial espionage IS indeed rife. But if you knew anything about it, you’d be more careful on Air France front cabins and in Paris hotels hosting defense industry conferences than worrying about most Chinese nationals who are not spies (most Chinese visitors are here to tour and shop, shop, shop). Of course, there ARE spies among Chinese nationals and even some among purported immigrants, and China is a very serious concern, so appropriate countermeasures are warranted.

    And, in case you didn’t catch it, I am not keen on immigration from China (or India for that matter, for another reason).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gringo
    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define "later." One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.
  186. @Director
    Good god almighty, it's an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.

    Good god almighty, it’s an invasion. You are oblivious or disingenuous.

    What is “it” in that declaration?

    Read More
  187. @JSM
    Yes, at the Natrona County airport, down the road a bit, there's, indeed, a museum made of the only building left standing from the old Army Airforce base. And you are correct, it is the old rec hall. Interesting place to visit: Not only are the belongings of many of the WWII veterans who lived in Wyoming or were stationed at the base displayed there, and the curator can tell you their stories, but also, on the walls is a mural of Wyoming's history.
    See, most of those guys would only be at the air base a few weeks, so the mural was commissioned to provide a quick history lesson. These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.

    These guys, being fighter pilots in training, and therefore high testosterone, were known to fire their weapons into the walls while drunk. Those bullet holes have been preserved.

    It’s not just high testosterone, a lot of pilots have small man complexes, because, well, they are generally short by selection (cockpits are not comfy for tall men).

    I have a very good friend who was an Air Force combat pilot during Vietnam, and back in those days, pilots were apparently like celebrity bachelors loosed upon the Playboy Mansion. It was routine for some pilots to whore and drink all night and crawl into their cockpits early in the morning and get oxygen through their masks to get sober.

    Then again, in the past, people used to die during Red Flag exercises all the time. The Air Force took training very seriously back then and took casualties as the cost of tough and realistic training.

    Those days are LONG GONE. If someone gets hurt or, God forbid, die during training, heads will roll up and down. Regulations are MUCH more strictly enforced. I have a cousin who is a Navy pilot who flew missions in Iraq, and even though he was highly decorated for both valor and performance, he was censured for carrying a personal weapon instead of the issued sidearm (normally that’s not much of an issue in an active combat zone, but some REMF ratted him out and insist on making the transgression official).

    There is a lot of “perfumed princes” in the upper echelon of the military now who never saw real combat unlike many junior officers who have been at war for a decade or so now. Many such young combat leaders have left the military in the last several years because of the conflict they had with the REMF bosses who didn’t know jack about real war but loved ordering men around like they did.

    Read More
  188. @The most deplorable one

    I think the reasons for Western European dominance since the 17-18th Centuries are multiple, some possibly genetic, but much of it probably environmental and historical and a part of it even chance. And as can be seen from the rise and fall of various dominant Eurasian civilizations, it was neither preordained nor destined to be the case forever.
     
    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2014/10/transportation-divergence-and.html

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2013/11/european-asian-divergence-predates.html

    He has some other stuff at that site including a very interesting posting on Dead Reckoning and the Exploration Explosion and the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2012/10/dead-reckoning-and-exploration-explosion.html

    Nick Szabo suggests that it starts further back than that:

    Of course, the Western European dominance of the last three hundred years or so did not just arise out of thin air. There were pre-conditions that made that dominance possible.

    But I would argue that the growing power imbalance between Western Europe and, say, China was also, in part, due to the relative decline of the latter during those centuries. Just as the Europeans were venturing into the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, the Chinese retreated from them due to their own domestic reasons.

    the Italian use of the compass and sand glass to navigate reliably long distances by sea:

    He has some interesting speculations and theories, but he is wrong about the Chinese maritime technologies of the period immediately preceding the European explosion into the high seas. To wit: http://mycoordinates.org/zheng-he%E2%80%99s-sailing-to-west-ocean/all/1/

    3 THE TECHNOLOGY

    Various advanced technologies of the time were employed by Zheng He and his fleet to make the great feat. He successfully inherited the practice of former navigators in Chinese history and assimilated their ocean-going knowledge. He selected excellent sailors, made thorough preparations and built various types of seaworthy ships equipped with well-designed devices such as stabilization boards, watertight compartments, precise compass, and star boards. Based on the knowledge of his predecessors and the sea-going practice of his own, he prepared scientific navigation charts, which are of great value in history. He inherited and innovated the Chinese tradition of navigation through celestial observation. By inventing the technique of star board measurement for determining the height of celestial bodies and thus positioning, he elevated the navigation technology to a new level. He also had studied the general patterns of monsoon in the in the Chinese sea area, Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea and made effective use of these studies in his trip. The following subsections are contributed to part of the technologies employed by Zheng He and his fleet.

    3.1 Ship building

    China has a long history of building ships. The general design featured vertical sails, with neither horizontal sails nor fastening ropes. The sails were usually made of cloth or woven by bamboo chips stiffened by bamboo poles for wind-efficiency. With centuries of experience in building ship to sail storm-tossed oceans, the Chinese marine engineers had evolved a robust frame built in sections. Each section was contained by watertight bulkheads at either end, resembling the internal partitions of a bamboo. The watertight sections were bolted together with brass pins weighing several kilograms. Three layers of hardwood were nailed to a teak frame, and then the planks were caulked (made waterproof) with coir (coconut fibre) and sealed with a mixture of boiled tung-tree oil and lime. This hard, waterproof lacquer had been used to seal Chinese ocean-going ships since the seventh century, but so much tung-tree oil was required to build Zheng He’s treasure fleets that acres of land along the Yangtze banks were acquired to plant orchards of tung trees.

    Marine engineers at the Longjiang shipyards designed their ships to survive the fiercest storms on the open ocean. Reinforced bows enabled the vessel to smash through the waves, and at either side of the bow were channels leading to internal compartments. As the square bow pitched in heavy seas, water was funnelled in; as the bow surfaced above the waves, the water drained out, modifying the pitching motion. A teak keel bound together by iron hoops ran the length of the ship, and specially cut, large rectangular stones – or composite stone and mud balls – were packed around it for ballast. Additional keels that could be raised and lowered were fitted at either side for more stability. In a storm, semi-submersible sea anchors could also be thrown overboard to reduce rolling. Even in the roughest weather and sea conditions, pitching and rolling were greatly reduced by these ingenious modifications. With the sophisticated technologies China was able to build largest ship of the world at the time. Some record noted the treasure ship is as large as 132m in length and 54m of width. Figure 2 compares the treasure ship to Columbus’s St. Maria.

    ship

    The giant ship could survive typhoons and the sectional construction reduced the risk of sinking in case of a collision with a reef or an iceberg. They were designed to remain afloat even if two compartments were flooded after being punctured by coral or ice. To increase cargo capacity, the hulls of the junks were very wide compared with their length and they were float-bottomed. Their sails were balanced lugs, four-sided sails hanging from a yardarm set at an oblique angle – the characteristic sail of China. They were stiffened by a series of bamboo battens, so the design was extremely efficient when sailing before the wind. It also allowed the sails to be reefed, or lowered, quickly in an emergency.
    A story tells that Zheng He’s flagship was once holed on a reef but its triple hull and watertight compartments enabled him to reach Malacca without sinking, according to some legend.
    It is also proposed that we can envisage the development of modern shipping industry by comparing that of Zheng He’s time. Shipbuilding at the time had shown the characteristics of large size, high speed and specialization (Yang & Jin 2005).

    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.2 Celestial fixing

    Zheng He developed a whole set of navigation technology by looking at stars. Accompanying Zheng He’s nautical chart, there were four stellar diagrams. Figure 3 shows portions of two of them. Those diagrams passed on by Zheng He have not only enabled us to recapture the stars observed by navigators but also revealed the secrets of ancient navigation.

    Zheng He was able to determine his latitude by measuring the height of Polaris to the north and Southern Cross to the south. Twelve star boards (Fig.4) were used depending on the different height of the stars. The size of the largest board is around 24 cm by 24 cm (12 fingers as it was termed at the time, using the size of human thumb) and the smallest, 2 cm by 2 cm (1 finger), with 2 cm difference in succession (Zhao 2005). By using the attached thread, around 60 cm in length, the observer was able to fix the distance from the eye to the board, thus fix the angle of observation of the board, about 1.9° per finger. When observing the celestial bodies, the observer aligned the star on the upper side of the board and the horizon to the lower side, and thus the height of the star was determined. According to different heights of the stars, different sized boards could be used. By using Zheng He’s method, the positioning error could be controlled within 4.5 nautical miles, which was far superior to the general level at that time (Zhao 2005).

    portions

    Figure 3. Portions of stellar diagrams

    boards

    Figure 4. Star boards

    Menzies (2003) describes quite clearly astro-navigation of the fleet. The fleet used Polaris in the northern hemisphere. But when they were in Indian Ocean, and altered course to the southwest, southern Africa. Polaris, the Chinese guiding star, would have sunk closer and closer to the horizon and become invisible at 3°40¢N, north of Mogadishu in Somalia. Until they found another guiding star in the southern hemisphere to fulfil the same purpose as Polaris in the north, they were sailing into the unknown. The Chinese needed a star in the southern hemisphere to replace Polaris in the northern, and in the event they selected two: Canopus for latitude and the Southern Cross for navigation, they would have to sail far into the icy waters of the Deep South to locate the stars. To use Canopus for latitude, the Chinese had to determine its precise position by sailing to a point directly underneath the star. The Southern Cross points to the South Pole, but unlike Polaris, it is not directly above the Pole. To be able to use the Southern Cross for accurate navigation, the Chinese also had to locate its position in the sky – its height and longitude. Once again, the only way to calculate the precise position of the Southern Cross was to sail to a position directly beneath it. Menzies believes that only when Canopus and the Southern Cross had been located could new lands in the southern hemisphere be accurately placed on charts. When they reached Mount Adams in the West Falklands, the Chinese cartographers were nearly underneath Canopus. They were taking such pains to fix their position so that they could calculate their precise latitude: 52°40¢S. By cross-referencing Canopus to Polaris they could establish Canopus’s height and then use that star to obtain their latitude anywhere in the southern oceans.
    –~~~~~~~~~~~~–
    3.3 Nautical charts
    Zheng He Hanghai Tu (Zheng He’s Nautical Charts) provides comprehensive records of Zheng He’s western voyages. The original chart is a long scroll called “Chart of the course taken by the treasure ship from its start at Longjing to the destinations of foreign lands”. That is one of the achievements of Zheng He in his western sea voyages and also the earliest international chart in the world (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005).

    zheng

    Figure 5. Zheng He’s Nautical Chart

    The charts utilize traditional Chinese landscape painting techniques to portray features such as mountains, islands, bridges, temples, and cities in detailed perspective. Figure 5 illustrates a portion of the chart. These graphic representations enabled the navigators to more easily identify important geographical features from shipboard. The charts include over 530 place names, including over thirty Asian and African countries and regions. Over fifty separate routes are delineated. Navigational data inscribed along the routes, such as compass headings and time notations.

    Zheng He’s nautical charts are of great both historical and practical value. These charts fully reflect the high level of navigational expertise of the time, and indicate that China’s maritime technology had essentially been perfected. It has been proposed that when Columbus, da Gama, Magellan and Cook later made the “discoveries’, they were carrying copies of the Chinese maps with then when they set off on their own journeys into the “unknown” (Menzies 2003).

    3.4 Course and speed measuring

    Compass was the main means used by Zheng He in his epic ocean voyages. The compass was used to fix the direction and “geng” which recorded by Chinese era is used to measure distance.

    The compass used in the treasure ship was a kind of “wet compass”, that is a needle floating in water contained in a circular box with the compass points carved on wooden rim. On the compass there are 24 scales. Each scale, marked by different Chinese characters, represents a direction. The characters provided a way to mark the direction course route lines on the charts. The ship may follow one particular scale mark or follow a point between two scales.

    compass

    Figure 6. Magnetic compass

    Figure 6 shows the magnetic compass used by Zheng He’s fleet. The lower part of the figure is a replica of the compass and the upper shows the bearing correspondents of the Chinese character marks. Figure 7 shows a simple form of a “wet compass” (Xin Yuan-ou 2003).

    megniticcopas

    Figure 7. Simple form of “wet compass”

    Zheng He’s fleet used hourglass to measure the distances it covered. It was an instrument for measuring time by the trickling of sand through small opening from one glass bulb to another below it in fixed period of time, usually a “geng” (Information Office of Fujian Province 2005). “Geng” is a time recording unit, representing one of the five two-hour periods of a night, but here it refers to a unit of distance. Usually one “geng” was 60 li, about 30 kilometers. When taking the measure, they threw a wooden plank into the sea and then walked to the rear of the ship at a certain fixed speed to gauge the ship’s speed. Then route and distance were calculated and drawn on a map. That is what we see as the navigation chart, a precious material for studying Zheng He’s western ocean voyages.

    By using compass and the “geng”, navigators would know the position of the ship in the vast seas.

    There’s a lot more in that link, so check it out (btw, I don’t buy everything in that link, especially all that Chinese “amicability” talk – because Zheng He did engage in “armed diplomacy” in SE Asia, but the sections on the technology are interesting and illuminating).

    Read More
  189. http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/sean-long/ed-sec-new-teachers-come-bottom-third-their-college-class

    Unfortunately, US high school teachers are not very bright types. You can not reason with low IQ types. The notoriety is well knnown in the world.

    Read More
  190. @Twinkie

    That, my friend, is the most intellectual thing you have written thusfar.
     
    1. We are not friends.

    2. You lecturing me about "intellectual" matters is akin to a black man "teaching" an East Asian differential equations.

    Lol, so rude… zombie!!

    Read More
  191. @Twinkie

    It just seems to me that in one instance you are attributing multiple factors, including genetics, and in the other you withdraw all variables except the “people”.
     
    Context, please.

    Note I was contrasting "economics" vs. "people," in other words falsifying the notion of economics as the primary causal variable in crime rates, by comparing ghetto blacks with even poorer Appalachian whites who have considerably lower violent crime rates than the former.

    Economics is what I called earlier "a minor variable." Things like income are manifestations of the interplay of genes, environment, and culture rather than major causal factors as the latter three.

    And when I say "people" I don't just mean "race." I mean a group of people who are products of a particular place (and time) and culture who in turn create and shape that place and culture.

    To put simply, race is very important, but it's not everything. I, as Mr. Sailer seemingly does, attribute outcomes to some combination of nature and nurture (he often uses the "fifty-fifty" line as a rough estimate, and I don't think that's a bad starting point).

    There are some folks on these pages who are "nature only." I am not one of them. In real life and in the scientific community, the debate is between the dominant environmentarians who attribute everything or almost everything to nurture and the insurgent hereditarians who attribute nature as a component, meaning nature + nurture.

    I agree. Poverty does not cause criminal behavior.

    Read More
  192. @Twinkie

    Von Braun was a German. The founding stock of the US is substantially German. I’d say he wasn’t really a racial or cultural outsider.
     
    That's rather funny since my wife's grandmother (who was born to German immigrants), when she was a child, was warned not to speak German by her family during the years when Germany was an enemy.

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals. They assimilated, because the hosts and the hosting elites insisted on it... which is what needs to happen now (as well as dramatically reducing legal immigration and eliminating illegal immigration).

    Even if we enacted an immigration moratorium as JSM wanted, we still have to assimilate those who are already here rather than have them become pawns of the multiculturalists.

    Chinese nationals are often spies btw. Industrial Espionage is rife.
     
    Industrial espionage IS indeed rife. But if you knew anything about it, you'd be more careful on Air France front cabins and in Paris hotels hosting defense industry conferences than worrying about most Chinese nationals who are not spies (most Chinese visitors are here to tour and shop, shop, shop). Of course, there ARE spies among Chinese nationals and even some among purported immigrants, and China is a very serious concern, so appropriate countermeasures are warranted.

    And, in case you didn't catch it, I am not keen on immigration from China (or India for that matter, for another reason).

    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define “later.” One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Fairly significant numbers of Dutch, Germans, French (Huguenots), and even Swedes were centered in New Amsterdam and associated colonies concurrent with Plymouth and Jamestown. Of course these early immigrants got absorbed for the most part but their families still exist, and remember their heritage. Our earliest German ancestor, for example, was a refugee of the 30 Years War.
    , @Twinkie

    That depends on how you define “later.” One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.
     
    Ok, that's your particular case. But during the height of Italian-, Irish, and Jewish-immigration, there were still ethnic German and Nordic immigrant enclaves in NYC.

    Even in the Midwest, the land of Germans and Nordics in America, a lot of white Americans of such ancestry seem to trace that element of their origin to relatively recent migrants from Europe (19th Century).

    For example, my wife belongs to a fairly prominent family in the upper Midwest. On her patrilineal line, she can trace the English part of her ancestry to an officer in the Revolutionary War all the way to the Mayflower (which is why her father is eligible for membership in the Society of Cincinnati). On her mother's side, however, a majority of the ancestors are Germans (Bavarians, mostly) who arrived in the 19th Century. In fact, her maternal grandmother was born to German immigrants (her maternal grandfather was born to earlier immigrants from Germany and Sweden).

    In fact, there are still some ethnic Northern European towns left in the Midwest. Pella, Iowa is known locally for its tulip festival and many of its residents having the name "van" in front of their surnames (Pella was founded in the mid-19th Century by Dutch immigrants, and is also famous as Wyatt Earp's childhood home). Elk Horn is known as one of the largest Danish settlements in rural America (was founded and built in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century). There was even a documentary made in Denmark called "Denmark in the Prairie" about Elk Horn.

    Indeed in parts of the Midwest, there used to be some friction between English-speaking residents and the Germans over the latter's use of German, but all that largely died down during World War I and on (in North and South Dakota German is still the no. 2 language after English).

    According to Wiki:

    Between 1843 and 1910, more than 5 million Germans emigrated overseas,[16] mostly to the United States.[27] German remained an important medium for churches, schools, newspapers, and even the administration of the United States Brewers' Association[28] through the early 20th century, but was severely repressed during World War I. Over the course of the 20th century many of the descendants of 18th century and 19th century immigrants ceased speaking German at home, but small populations of speakers can still be found in Pennsylvania (Amish, Hutterites, Dunkards and some Mennonites historically spoke Hutterite German and a West Central German variety of German known as Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania Dutch), Kansas (Mennonites and Volga Germans), North Dakota (Hutterite Germans, Mennonites, Russian Germans, Volga Germans, and Baltic Germans), South Dakota, Montana, Texas (Texas German), Wisconsin, Indiana, Oregon, Oklahoma, and Ohio (72,570).[29] A significant group of German Pietists in Iowa formed the Amana Colonies and continue to practice speaking their heritage language. Early twentieth century immigration was often to St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.
     
  193. @Gringo
    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define "later." One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    Fairly significant numbers of Dutch, Germans, French (Huguenots), and even Swedes were centered in New Amsterdam and associated colonies concurrent with Plymouth and Jamestown. Of course these early immigrants got absorbed for the most part but their families still exist, and remember their heritage. Our earliest German ancestor, for example, was a refugee of the 30 Years War.

    Read More
  194. @Gringo
    The founding stock of the U.S. is English. Germans were later arrivals.

    That depends on how you define "later." One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    That depends on how you define “later.” One of my German ancestors immigrated to New York in the 1640s. He had initially fled to the Netherlands for religious freedoms not then available in his homeland. Then to America. Of my German ancestors, all came to the US before the American Revolution- several of whom fought in the Revolution.

    Ok, that’s your particular case. But during the height of Italian-, Irish, and Jewish-immigration, there were still ethnic German and Nordic immigrant enclaves in NYC.

    Even in the Midwest, the land of Germans and Nordics in America, a lot of white Americans of such ancestry seem to trace that element of their origin to relatively recent migrants from Europe (19th Century).

    For example, my wife belongs to a fairly prominent family in the upper Midwest. On her patrilineal line, she can trace the English part of her ancestry to an officer in the Revolutionary War all the way to the Mayflower (which is why her father is eligible for membership in the Society of Cincinnati). On her mother’s side, however, a majority of the ancestors are Germans (Bavarians, mostly) who arrived in the 19th Century. In fact, her maternal grandmother was born to German immigrants (her maternal grandfather was born to earlier immigrants from Germany and Sweden).

    In fact, there are still some ethnic Northern European towns left in the Midwest. Pella, Iowa is known locally for its tulip festival and many of its residents having the name “van” in front of their surnames (Pella was founded in the mid-19th Century by Dutch immigrants, and is also famous as Wyatt Earp’s childhood home). Elk Horn is known as one of the largest Danish settlements in rural America (was founded and built in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century). There was even a documentary made in Denmark called “Denmark in the Prairie” about Elk Horn.

    Indeed in parts of the Midwest, there used to be some friction between English-speaking residents and the Germans over the latter’s use of German, but all that largely died down during World War I and on (in North and South Dakota German is still the no. 2 language after English).

    According to Wiki:

    Between 1843 and 1910, more than 5 million Germans emigrated overseas,[16] mostly to the United States.[27] German remained an important medium for churches, schools, newspapers, and even the administration of the United States Brewers’ Association[28] through the early 20th century, but was severely repressed during World War I. Over the course of the 20th century many of the descendants of 18th century and 19th century immigrants ceased speaking German at home, but small populations of speakers can still be found in Pennsylvania (Amish, Hutterites, Dunkards and some Mennonites historically spoke Hutterite German and a West Central German variety of German known as Pennsylvania German or Pennsylvania Dutch), Kansas (Mennonites and Volga Germans), North Dakota (Hutterite Germans, Mennonites, Russian Germans, Volga Germans, and Baltic Germans), South Dakota, Montana, Texas (Texas German), Wisconsin, Indiana, Oregon, Oklahoma, and Ohio (72,570).[29] A significant group of German Pietists in Iowa formed the Amana Colonies and continue to practice speaking their heritage language. Early twentieth century immigration was often to St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

    Read More
  195. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The SAT exists for the same reason that every standardized test exists, to create make-work jobs and an industry that provides no real value. Also, the SAT does prevent poor students from going to college since getting a decent score requires classes and multiple test attempts for most students. However, that’s probably for the best since most people shouldn’t go to college anyway.

    The real problem, as noted accurately by Nassim Taleb, is that modern society places too much importance on formal education, standardized tests, credentials, etc. We fall into the trap of thinking that education creates wealth when it is largely a byproduct of wealth.

    Plus, the notion that one can accurately measure the future potential of someone with standardized tests is completely ridiculous anyway. A lot of smart students do badly on the SAT because it just isn’t their thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gringo
    Also, the SAT does prevent poor students from going to college since getting a decent score requires classes and multiple test attempts for most students.

    All I know is that I scored over 1400 on the old SAT on only one try, without any preparation classes. Though as regards preparation: I was an assiduous reader from second grade on, which definitely would have helped my SAT-Verbal score. Perhaps reading a lot is "preparation." I recall reading about one college basketball star, currently in the NBA, who was so proud that at the age of 21 or 21 he had finally read a book cover to cover. Yes, students like that are going to have trouble on the SAT. Surprise, surprise. Seems to me that people who read hardly at all are not college material in the first place- though some may look good on a college team.

    As there are community colleges that take any student, SAT scores do not prevent poor students from going to colleges. For the claim that SATs are just a hoop to jump through, my reply is that I very much doubt that anyone with a SAT-Math below 400 - or 500 for that matter- is going to be a successful STEM student.

    I am not a complete fan of standardized tests. For example, I am skeptical about the ability of standardized tests to evaluate writing ability.
  196. iffen says: