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I haven’t really been paying much attention to the Russian conspiracy theory in recent years, so when I tried to catch up today by reading the Twitter thread of a leading conspiracy theorist, Seth Abramson, I realized I was probably coming in a little too late to ever catch up:

So, me and the pizza delivery guy who was at Woodstock are kind of confused and bored. What do you think?

 
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  1. This is the basic narrative:

    Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads: awful foreign meddling.

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.

    • Replies: @DFH

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

     

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?
    , @PhysicistDave
    Lot wrote:

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.
     
    You mean because they committed truly horrific, blood-curdling atrocities that would be recognized as monstrously evil in any civilized society?

    Even though half the people in DC engage in similar activities and no one ever flits an eyelash (and the half who don't engage in such "crimes" are under the age of 12)?

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars! Sort of an interesting inversion of the usual banana republic, eh?
    , @theo the kraut
    > Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads:

    IIRC some were pro, some ware against Trump.
    , @Alden
    Is that what it was all about? Thanks I never could figure out what Trumps crime was.
  2. Again, we should all note how frequently the Middle East intersects with Russian sanctions. No accident.

    Is this some sort of complicated anti-semitic dogwhistle?

    • Replies: @Emblematic
    No, it's the opposite. It's looking at the Israeli connection (in this case Flynn helping Israel by lobbying Security Council members not to vote for the anti-Israeli resolution brought by New Zealand) and saying "It's really Russia".
  3. @Lot
    This is the basic narrative:

    Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads: awful foreign meddling.

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?
     
    You don't need to be concerned with AIPAC's lobbying on behalf of a foreign country. This is isn't the foreign meddling you're looking for. Move along.
    , @anonymous
    Egypt? Syria? Lebanon?
    , @Inquiring Mind
    Please try and keep up. The country in question receives money from the U.S., not the other way around.
    , @anonymous
    Israel and US interests align. Qatar and US interests don't. Also Israel has no TV channel piped directly into American homes.
  4. Anon[350] • Disclaimer says:

    Sorry, I’ve managed to ignore “Russia” for two years, and I don’t want to get sucked into it now.

    It sounded so utterly stupid and paranoid in the beginning, and I could see that the left was sinking into Truther territory, so I made the strategic decision that I would just cancel it.

    It worked for me with OJ also.

    I have the same policy for friends and acquaintances getting a divorce: “Give me a call in two years. Until then I don’t want to be sucked into your bitter vituperations.”

  5. I think the Russians are blown away by their success. They planted the story, probably figuring it would be a source of aggravation for the incoming administration, but I doubt they anticipated it would become a multi-year case of delusional psychosis for most of the American media and at least half the political establishment.

    I, too, had little interest in the “Russian Collusion” narrative, because it was such obvious claptrap from the beginning, but as I look back on what it became I’m left wondering whether our media establishment is abnormally susceptible to lies, is prone to pathological lying itself, or both.

    Despite not being all that interested in the story, I’m still very proud of our own American reporter Chuck Ross for his yeoman’s work in exposing all the calumny. If I recall correctly, Chuck wasn’t such a big fan of Trump from the beginning, and he could have profited from promoting the false narrative, but he stuck to his guns and pulled out the rotten truth, as it were, with a formidable tenacity.

    I also have to give some respect to Matt Taibbi and Glen Greenwald for their clarity of mind. The hyenas on the left would have done well to listen to them. Taibbi in particular, who knows Russia better than 99% of our MSM blabberers, and consistently warned them that they were going over the edge.

    • Agree: TTSSYF, jim jones, slumber_j
    • Replies: @Pericles

    I’m left wondering whether our media establishment is abnormally susceptible to lies, is prone to pathological lying itself, or both.

     

    Well, the right sort of lies are always welcome. It was also a very convenient way to sandbag Trump.
  6. I know that the whole mess included a chapter of the US seriously meddling in Ukraine with shadowy figures (from the Clinton environment?) receiving or disbursing money, but it got sorta dropped into a Black Sea.

    Standard commentariat data point from an alternate universe:

    Trump and his pet Attorney General can spin this all they like, but even with the redactions this looks like it would have sunk any other president.

    • Replies: @Pericles

    even with the redactions this looks like it would have sunk any other president.

     

    Obama will of course merrily bob away, unsinkable, but it was on his watch that the coup plotting got rolling. 1000x worse than Watergate IMO.
  7. I’ve watched and read about trump since the 80’s. Enough so that I’ve been a decent guesser of how he’ll play things as they are presented. I’ve noticed he tends to move laterally. That is, he doesn’t like to play outside his wheelhouse. He doesn’t have the patience to learn a new game.

    That’s why all the Russia bullshit was out of the question for a guy like him. He would not bother with it, unless it was dropped in his lap in a neat little bow. And even then, he wouldn’t go whole hog on it. It’s just not how he rolls. He stays in his wheelhouse.

    I don’t get how the media is always outwitted by him. He’s very consistent in his patterns. He’s a “happy asshole,” but he’s predictable. They can’t seem to get over the “happy asshole” part of him, so they always shoot themselves in the foot, and cry about it.

    The media figure who handles him with the most skill is Ann Coulter.

    Not coincidentally, another “happy asshole.”

    I love both the little bullies!

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The media people all went to schools with strong anti-bullying programs so they’ve been left as vulnerable (ostensibly to Trump, but Trump has nothing on the fakeleft who gives them their marching orders) as the kids of anti-vaxxers are to measles.

    It’s more obvious in R leadership types (John Roberts, Paul Ryan et al) who run at the first sound of enemy fire.
  8. This whole ‘Russia Gate’ circle jerk is an internecine squabble within the Deep State and functions as a diversion from important, real issues….. such as world hegemony.

    • Replies: @El Dato

    such as world hegemony
     
    Which ain't forthcoming.
    , @anonymous
    Russiaquiddick.
  9. Tommy Flanagan has been suspiciously low-profile these past few years. Perhaps the Clintons and FBI/DOJ had a sweet little consulting gig for him, provided he kept it on the down-low.

    Yeeeeah, that’s the ticket.

  10. @DFH

    Again, we should all note how frequently the Middle East intersects with Russian sanctions. No accident.
     
    Is this some sort of complicated anti-semitic dogwhistle?

    No, it’s the opposite. It’s looking at the Israeli connection (in this case Flynn helping Israel by lobbying Security Council members not to vote for the anti-Israeli resolution brought by New Zealand) and saying “It’s really Russia”.

  11. @Lot
    This is the basic narrative:

    Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads: awful foreign meddling.

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.

    Lot wrote:

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.

    You mean because they committed truly horrific, blood-curdling atrocities that would be recognized as monstrously evil in any civilized society?

    Even though half the people in DC engage in similar activities and no one ever flits an eyelash (and the half who don’t engage in such “crimes” are under the age of 12)?

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars! Sort of an interesting inversion of the usual banana republic, eh?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Mike Flynn was a professional who had the gall to suggest that Putin's Russia might not quite have the heft to be the threat the USSR was, economically or ideologically. That was his real crime in a Beltway where a Second Cold War is viewed as desirable and inevitable. His views on Iran were very primitive and he shared the over-the-top Israel-philia common in the Army and Air Force where evangelical Christianity is a major force, so I can't say I'm a deep fan of his, but that's par on course for a generation of US military generals who remember 1979 as young 'uns, so I'm not going to condemn him as particularly unique.

    (I should note that the IDF does not suffer from similar issues of ideological group think masquerading as analysis, regardless of what Bibi is bandying about. Ehud Barak had been quite candid that he's more worried what Pakistan will do with the atomic bomb than Iran. My Sunni Pakistani former roommate-an impeccably gentlemanly older computational physicist-heartily agreed.)

    , @Jack D

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars
     
    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is? The FBI has been blackmailing or getting rid of Presidents since the 1920s. J. Edgar Hoover was the head of the FBI for 37 years and the only thing that removed him from office was death. Does this sound like something that should be part of a Constitutional republic? Deep Throat was a top FBI official who brought down Nixon. The FBI is not in the Constitution. It is an unelected 4th branch of government. Its history is rife with illegal infringements on civil liberties. It needs to be dissolved.

    PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn't concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent. FBI agents take imaginary "notes" saying that you lied to them and, viola, you're a criminal!

    , @Humbles
    I still have no idea what Flynn did which warranted indictment and prosecution. Apart from being stupid enough to talk to the FBI willingly, and without a lawyer. At least they showed their hand through that little gambit, and Trump learned the lesson: never talk to the FBI.
  12. Essentially it was all a fairy story. There’s nothing there a worth second of your time.

    Of course, if armies of Dem wrong-doers were rounded up and jailed that would be great fun. I’ll bet that Hellary and Obama won’t be going to jail, though they doubtless richly deserve it.

    It all reinforces the case that the sleazy oaf Trump, liar and con-man, was a far better choice for Prez than Hellary and her gangster acolytes.

  13. @PhysicistDave
    Lot wrote:

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.
     
    You mean because they committed truly horrific, blood-curdling atrocities that would be recognized as monstrously evil in any civilized society?

    Even though half the people in DC engage in similar activities and no one ever flits an eyelash (and the half who don't engage in such "crimes" are under the age of 12)?

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars! Sort of an interesting inversion of the usual banana republic, eh?

    Mike Flynn was a professional who had the gall to suggest that Putin’s Russia might not quite have the heft to be the threat the USSR was, economically or ideologically. That was his real crime in a Beltway where a Second Cold War is viewed as desirable and inevitable. His views on Iran were very primitive and he shared the over-the-top Israel-philia common in the Army and Air Force where evangelical Christianity is a major force, so I can’t say I’m a deep fan of his, but that’s par on course for a generation of US military generals who remember 1979 as young ‘uns, so I’m not going to condemn him as particularly unique.

    (I should note that the IDF does not suffer from similar issues of ideological group think masquerading as analysis, regardless of what Bibi is bandying about. Ehud Barak had been quite candid that he’s more worried what Pakistan will do with the atomic bomb than Iran. My Sunni Pakistani former roommate-an impeccably gentlemanly older computational physicist-heartily agreed.)

    • Replies: @Lot
    I agree on politics and policy with Flynn and Manafort more than most swamp creatures.

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.

    Flynn was offering to help extradite Steve’s favorite Turkish American for $$$.
  14. @Lot
    This is the basic narrative:

    Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads: awful foreign meddling.

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.

    > Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads:

    IIRC some were pro, some ware against Trump.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The bloody shirt is the “hacking” (deliberately left vague to be construed as widely as possible, the bailey is the emails), not the ads.
  15. Seth is insane. Are people actually reading his thread?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That’s how panics work.

    See Titus Oates.
  16. As far as covert operations go, if the Russian “meddling” was a Kremlin coordinated effort at all, it seems to have been a low-budget, very small scale and amateurish operation that was meant to be discovered. There is considerable cybersecurity talent in Russia, it is unlikely that they inadvertently left fingerprints—they must have done this in a manner to ensure that “they” were traceable.

    My speculation is that this was some kind of shot across the bow by Russia’s clandestine services to ours, in retaliation for our extensive meddling in their near abroad in the last decade or so.

    The effects on our political scene have been disproportionately large. I’d guess unexpectedly so, from the Russian foreign policy and strategic point of view.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that's what they get paid for. Part of Putin's shtick is to discredit democracies - see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn't occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump's election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn't even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints - I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn't do a 100% job. They don't have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke - none of them will ever see a US courtroom.
    , @Inquiring Mind
    Is this like the Far Side cartoon where a Pleistocene hunter has brought down a mammoth with a single arrow to its belly. The caption reads, "We better write that spot down!"
    , @notanon

    if the Russian “meddling” was a Kremlin coordinated effort
     
    it wasn't - it's just a clickbait shop - that's why there were pro and anti Trump ads, pro and anti abortion ads etc.
  17. A British intelligence officer was paid by Clinton to create a fake dossier for the purpose of damaging Trump. The fake dossier was then used as a basis for spying on the Trump campaign.

    This seems much more sinister than the Russian facebook ads.

    But British meddling in the election isn’t a “thing” good people worry about.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
    Christopher Steele created the Dossier by colluding with Russian agents and Kremlin officials. Thus Clinton was colluding with Russians via unregistered foreign agent Steele. And they paid Fusion GPS with unauthorized campaign funds to disseminate the Dossier to media outlets to meddle in the election.

    If Trump had paid Steele and Fusion GPS to collude with Russian agents to obtain dirt on Clinton he would have been indicted by Mueller for colluding with Russia to win the election. Comey and his FBI cronies would be indicted for lying to the courts to spy on the DNC operatives using the opposition research to create a false narrative based on the Dossier, to further the Russian interference objective.
  18. Ncoytrovered evidence of collusion and obstruction

    Democrats been to start impeachment proceedings NOW

    • Replies: @Alden
    Why don’t you send emails to the Democrat leadership and all democrat senators and Congress critters ? Or get George Soros to bribe and blackmail them?
  19. @Bill P
    I think the Russians are blown away by their success. They planted the story, probably figuring it would be a source of aggravation for the incoming administration, but I doubt they anticipated it would become a multi-year case of delusional psychosis for most of the American media and at least half the political establishment.

    I, too, had little interest in the "Russian Collusion" narrative, because it was such obvious claptrap from the beginning, but as I look back on what it became I'm left wondering whether our media establishment is abnormally susceptible to lies, is prone to pathological lying itself, or both.

    Despite not being all that interested in the story, I'm still very proud of our own American reporter Chuck Ross for his yeoman's work in exposing all the calumny. If I recall correctly, Chuck wasn't such a big fan of Trump from the beginning, and he could have profited from promoting the false narrative, but he stuck to his guns and pulled out the rotten truth, as it were, with a formidable tenacity.

    I also have to give some respect to Matt Taibbi and Glen Greenwald for their clarity of mind. The hyenas on the left would have done well to listen to them. Taibbi in particular, who knows Russia better than 99% of our MSM blabberers, and consistently warned them that they were going over the edge.

    I’m left wondering whether our media establishment is abnormally susceptible to lies, is prone to pathological lying itself, or both.

    Well, the right sort of lies are always welcome. It was also a very convenient way to sandbag Trump.

  20. @El Dato
    I know that the whole mess included a chapter of the US seriously meddling in Ukraine with shadowy figures (from the Clinton environment?) receiving or disbursing money, but it got sorta dropped into a Black Sea.

    Standard commentariat data point from an alternate universe:

    Trump and his pet Attorney General can spin this all they like, but even with the redactions this looks like it would have sunk any other president.
     

    even with the redactions this looks like it would have sunk any other president.

    Obama will of course merrily bob away, unsinkable, but it was on his watch that the coup plotting got rolling. 1000x worse than Watergate IMO.

    • Replies: @notanon

    1000x worse than Watergate IMO.
     
    yes watergate 2.0 this time with the full collusion of the media.
  21. The threes D s of defense work are dodge, delay, and don’t pay. If you view Mueller through the prism of a defense atty, which is basically what he was, it was a master stroke in legal maneuvering.

    The Dodge – Russian interference was a farce to begin with. What wasn’t a farce was Obama weaponizing CIA/FBI/ETC to spy on Trump. In order to protect Obama/Clinton/FBI you deflect by initiating probe into Trump/Russia ties.

    The Delay – two years of an investigation with open ended conclusion as it relates to obstruction. The obstruction allegations are dubious at best and based on an extremely broad interpretation of the statute but it’s enough to keep the narrative moving for those who are so inclined.

    Don’t pay – No one, and I mean no one, will pay the price for one of the greatest political scandals in American history.

    • Replies: @notanon

    No one, and I mean no one, will pay the price for one of the greatest political scandals in American history.
     
    a successful coup d'etat

    treason never prospers cos if it does none call it treason
  22. @Ed
    Seth is insane. Are people actually reading his thread?

    That’s how panics work.

    See Titus Oates.

    • Agree: Cortes
  23. Whatever Trump was putatively obstructing, it sure as hell wasn’t justice.

    Obergefell II – ruling class snobbery/vanity weaponized

  24. @theo the kraut
    > Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads:

    IIRC some were pro, some ware against Trump.

    The bloody shirt is the “hacking” (deliberately left vague to be construed as widely as possible, the bailey is the emails), not the ads.

  25. “I haven’t really been paying much attention to the Russian conspiracy theory in recent years, so when I tried to catch up today by reading the Twitter thread of a leading conspiracy theorist, Seth Abramson, I realized I was probably coming in a little too late to ever catch up…”

    You really cannot label him a conspiracy theorist, or the entire matter as a conspiracy, if you admit that you have not been following him, or the situation, closely from the jump.

    But it is more likely than not that you have been reading him all of this time. As a result, what he is saying as a former prosecutor/defense attorney and current professor of journalism is remarkably accurate to you, so rather than do some NOTICING, you chose to label him in that fashion. In this way, you can keep face with your fanbois and fangirlz. Although, in the end, you are acting like the NYT and WAPO, which I thought was a big no-no ’round these parts!

    Still being cagey here, Mr. Sailer!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Your comments are hilariously stupid. You couldn't ask for a more perfect illustration of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
    , @Precious
    You really cannot label him a conspiracy theorist, or the entire matter as a conspiracy, if you admit that you have not been following him, or the situation, closely from the jump.

    Seth Abramson and you, Corvinus, are not conspiracy theorists. You are collusion theorists. Collusion theorists are, overall, a lot dumber than conspiracy theorists.

    he is saying as a former prosecutor/defense attorney and current professor of journalism is remarkably accurate to you

    Nobody believes your posturing.

  26. Being the party for people that can’t read 470+ pages means the Democrats can say whatever they want about the investigation and the media will ensure that whatever they say becomes the narrative.

    The truth is, the narrative has been a total inversion of the truth. It was Trump who was the victim of illegal espionage activities coordinated through the very top members of the IC.

  27. The hoopla over the Mueller report is the usual insider-baseball stuff that obsesses Washington and comes to define the last half of every administration. I don’t think that most people who work outside the beltway really care much one way or the other.

    FOX News personalities like Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham assure me I should care a great deal because 1.) Trump is on my side, and 2.) because of the precedent it sets – “if they can do this to Donald Trump, they can do it to anybody, yada, yada, yada”.

    The problem is: 1.) Trump is proving himself to not really be on my side or merely that he is an incompetent boob. And 2.) Even if they couldn’t do it to Trump, they could still do it to me. The wealthy and powerful will always invoke principals of civil liberties and an appeal to common cause to get you to rally to thier cause when they need defending. But they will never champion your cause when it is just your fat in the fire.

    I suppose I should care, but I really don’t. The source of many of Trump’s problems lie in his own actions. This is a man whose big selling point was that he knew how to hire the right people, and yet he hired wierdos like Manafort and Stone. He brought his son-in-law and daughter into his administration and allowed them to make personnel and policy decisions for him. He spent his whole administration picking petty fights and stoking petty grievances on Twitter.

  28. I reckoned the jig was fully up when it was reported that Ms. Veselnitskaya, after being admitted to the country on a Significant Public Benefit Parole from the Obama State Dep’t, met with Simpson of Fusion GPS before and after sitting down w/ Team Trump. Before that you could almost understand why some folks bought into a fairly damned transparent fraud (other than as partisan bloodsport). Afterwards? Pure Tinkerbell effect.

    Meanwhile, wonder what the Chinese were/are up to… ?

  29. @DFH

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

     

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?

    You don’t need to be concerned with AIPAC’s lobbying on behalf of a foreign country. This is isn’t the foreign meddling you’re looking for. Move along.

  30. The main purpose was to ramp up the anti-Russian hysteria as Realist said. I was listening to some idiot on the local radio berating anybody who didn’t swallow the narrative that the Russians “meddled” in the election. He really attacked people that mentioned that the CIA routinely engages in disinformation campaigns in the US. It was this clown Peter Tilden. He had the usual ex-CIA expert we are supposed to believe every word he utters, in spite of the CIAs past history. Maybe he gets a check from the CIA.

    The thing that amazed me was how little there existed. He talked about two websites, one that had 300,000 “followers” (1/10 of 1 percent of the country) and another with a little over a million. Not once did it ever occur to him how little this is and how worthless those numbers would be even if true. How many of those are bots designed to make it seem more significant than it is. How many actual people read those pages and how many did it have any effect on?

    This is like somebody I know railing on and on about RT.com after that stupid report first came out. I asked them did they even know RT.com existed before this and they shut up.

  31. John Haywood also noticed Seth’s looong Twitter on the Mueller report:

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1119213535291166720.html

  32. The Russian election influence story was a farce (fake news) from day 1.

    The more interesting story–yet to play out–will be the investigation into how the opening of a putative counterintelligence investigation by the Obama administration against its rival political party’s presidential candidate with the implication of collusion occurred.

    The widespread coordination among Obama admin heads of National Intelligence, CIA, FBI, DOJ, the use of 5-eyes partners in surveillance, attempted “sting” entrapment, the unmaskings by Samantha Power and Susan Rice, the use of paid political opposition propaganda (nearly wholly fictitious)–propaganda recycled through media reporting as confirmation of legitimacy–was a complete abuse of constitutional authorities. Actual corruption of the highest order.

    Act 2 won’t be as breathlessly reported–and given media reaction, will be actively resisted right to November 2020.

  33. @Realist
    This whole 'Russia Gate' circle jerk is an internecine squabble within the Deep State and functions as a diversion from important, real issues..... such as world hegemony.

    such as world hegemony

    Which ain’t forthcoming.

    • Replies: @Realist

    Which ain’t forthcoming.
     
    Not for the lack of US efforts.
  34. anonymous[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

     

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?

    Egypt? Syria? Lebanon?

  35. anonymous[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist
    This whole 'Russia Gate' circle jerk is an internecine squabble within the Deep State and functions as a diversion from important, real issues..... such as world hegemony.

    Russiaquiddick.

  36. The only sensible course of action at this point is impeachment. Of Chief Justice John Roberts. The FISA court buck stops with him.

  37. Anonymous[250] • Disclaimer says:

    Seth Abramson, the devolved brain.

  38. It is a safe bet that the redactions have to do with (((them))).

  39. Prior to the report coming out, the Democratic position was that Miller was a standup guy and the Republican position was that he was a partisan hack. As of yesterday, the Republicans think Mueller is OK after all and I actually heard a lefty caller claim that Miller was a tool and derelict in his duty. Lol.

    • Replies: @Michael S
    Not really. Both the Democratic and Republican party positions were that Mueller was a stand-up guy. It was only Trump tweeting to subtly imply that he was a partisan hack - which he almost assuredly was, but even partisan hacks work within a particular system and respond to certain incentives.

    Republican establishment position hasn't changed. Democratic position, predictably, follows whatever benefits the party at the time.
  40. @PhysicistDave
    Lot wrote:

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.
     
    You mean because they committed truly horrific, blood-curdling atrocities that would be recognized as monstrously evil in any civilized society?

    Even though half the people in DC engage in similar activities and no one ever flits an eyelash (and the half who don't engage in such "crimes" are under the age of 12)?

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars! Sort of an interesting inversion of the usual banana republic, eh?

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars

    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is? The FBI has been blackmailing or getting rid of Presidents since the 1920s. J. Edgar Hoover was the head of the FBI for 37 years and the only thing that removed him from office was death. Does this sound like something that should be part of a Constitutional republic? Deep Throat was a top FBI official who brought down Nixon. The FBI is not in the Constitution. It is an unelected 4th branch of government. Its history is rife with illegal infringements on civil liberties. It needs to be dissolved.

    PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn’t concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent. FBI agents take imaginary “notes” saying that you lied to them and, viola, you’re a criminal!

    • Replies: @res

    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is?
     
    You beat me to it, but worth repeating.
    , @Johann Ricke

    FBI agents take imaginary “notes” saying that you lied to them and, viola, you’re a criminal!
     
    I'm at a loss at how lying to a Federal agent ever became a felony, and how standards for "lying" in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.
    , @Alden
    That’s true. Every neighborhood and hamlet police station in the country is well equipped with audio and visual recording devices which are used. Every officer recites Miranda rights. When the ordinary uniforms mess up the Miranda warning it’s all over for the prosecution side.

    But the FBI doesn’t use recording devices and it’s managed to convince judges who are very skeptical of local law enforcement to believe everything an FBI agent claims.

    I still can’t figure out what actual crime of lying to the FBI Martha Stewart committed. RICO is a wonderful law but investigation and enforcement just gave the FBI vastly more powers to send innocent people to prison for
    “Lying “ to an FBI agent.
  41. @DFH

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

     

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?

    Please try and keep up. The country in question receives money from the U.S., not the other way around.

  42. @PiltdownMan
    As far as covert operations go, if the Russian "meddling" was a Kremlin coordinated effort at all, it seems to have been a low-budget, very small scale and amateurish operation that was meant to be discovered. There is considerable cybersecurity talent in Russia, it is unlikely that they inadvertently left fingerprints—they must have done this in a manner to ensure that "they" were traceable.

    My speculation is that this was some kind of shot across the bow by Russia's clandestine services to ours, in retaliation for our extensive meddling in their near abroad in the last decade or so.

    The effects on our political scene have been disproportionately large. I'd guess unexpectedly so, from the Russian foreign policy and strategic point of view.

    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that’s what they get paid for. Part of Putin’s shtick is to discredit democracies – see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn’t occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump’s election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn’t even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints – I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn’t do a 100% job. They don’t have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke – none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    • Replies: @peterike

    The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke – none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

     

    Even more so because they most likely didn't do it. And the FBI knows this full well.
    , @Desiderius
    It’s not a joke. It’s what allows them to say Assange’s claims about Seth Rich were the coverup in the report.
    , @Desiderius

    The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest
     
    Not really. The DNC emails would have sunk Hillary were it not for a full-court press to discredit Wikileaks overnight with the D base (combined with the drop of the pussy-grabbing tape).

    That tape was also intended to be a last minute dirty trick like Bush’s DUI that would almost assuredly have guaranteed HRC’s election. Forcing it early was a BFD.
    , @Prester John
    There has never been any actual proof that "Russians" ...unidentified, always unidentified of course... were involved in anything--at least none that has ever been made public. The Rooshians have been at the intelligence game since Peter the Great. The likelihood that they left fingerprints, though not impossible, is slim. One of the ironies of this whole mess is that the United States itself may have interfered with the RUSSIAN election 1996 election (on behalf of the besotted Boris Yeltsin)--with the blessings of Madame's Husband-of-Record. If--Big "if"-- Russia was involved in the US 2016 election, could it have constituted "payback time"? What's that old saying about what goes around comes around?
    , @Alden
    You’re well informed Jack. Do you have any opinion about why the Russians would favor Trump over Hildabeast?

    I always thought Russia would favor Democrats as being more crazy corrupt and detrimental.
  43. anonymous[296] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

     

    Is there a country which has a vast influence on US policy that you might be missing out there?

    Israel and US interests align. Qatar and US interests don’t. Also Israel has no TV channel piped directly into American homes.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    CNNMSNBCFoxNewsCBSABCNBC don’t count?
    , @Mr. Anon

    Israel and US interests align. Qatar and US interests don’t.
     
    How?

    Also Israel has no TV channel piped directly into American homes.
     
    It doesn't need to. It has the American media to flack for it.

    But thanks for disingenuous post anyways.
  44. You can get most of the necessary backstory here:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-interviewed-president-trump-six-days-after-criminal-obstruction-investigation-began/

    The bottom line is that we’ve just gone through several years of the most blatantly criminal political activity possibly in the history of the country, activity for which dozens of people ought to be jailed, up to and including Obama and Hillary, but probably none will. Also, the level of media duplicity is equally amazing. Their credibility level ought to be sub-zero by now, but millions still believe them.

    Really, if you see what’s going on — and they barely even attempt to hide it — there’s nothing to do but despair for the nation. The anti-Trump media assault for the 2020 election is going to make even the past few years look like nothing.

  45. @Jack D
    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that's what they get paid for. Part of Putin's shtick is to discredit democracies - see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn't occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump's election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn't even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints - I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn't do a 100% job. They don't have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke - none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke – none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    Even more so because they most likely didn’t do it. And the FBI knows this full well.

  46. anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    I want to know about the wiretaps of Trump’s campaign, and the fake intelligence ‘dossier’ Hillary supposedly commissioned. This seems like majorly sketchy stuff to me. Is there ever going to be a reckoning for this, or will the fact that Trump is a jerk, racist, has small hands, etc. excuse everything? This is a massive scandal, that nobody seems to care about.

  47. @Jack D
    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that's what they get paid for. Part of Putin's shtick is to discredit democracies - see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn't occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump's election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn't even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints - I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn't do a 100% job. They don't have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke - none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    It’s not a joke. It’s what allows them to say Assange’s claims about Seth Rich were the coverup in the report.

  48. @Jack D
    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that's what they get paid for. Part of Putin's shtick is to discredit democracies - see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn't occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump's election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn't even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints - I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn't do a 100% job. They don't have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke - none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest

    Not really. The DNC emails would have sunk Hillary were it not for a full-court press to discredit Wikileaks overnight with the D base (combined with the drop of the pussy-grabbing tape).

    That tape was also intended to be a last minute dirty trick like Bush’s DUI that would almost assuredly have guaranteed HRC’s election. Forcing it early was a BFD.

  49. There are of course all sorts of questions about the case for Russian involvement in the hacking, but of course it is in no one’s interest to answer them, which is why things have played out in a way that the claims of the “intelligence community” have never been cross-examined in a courtroom.

  50. Now that we’ve got this Russian collusion nonsense out of the way, it’s time to get serious. Let’s investigate the Uranium One scandal and who really leaked DNC files to Wikileaks. We may even learn who arranged Seth Rich’s assassination and the exact role played by the Awan family and their shady connections with Wasserman-Schultz. If things get truly exciting we may even get to examine Jeffrey Epstein’s exciting life among the Democrat elite and even – be still my beating heart – see a real investigation of the matters dismissed by the establishment with the convenient epithet, “Pixzzagate”. Let the special prosecutors be loosed!

  51. anon[821] • Disclaimer says:

    The latest is that the Democrats and their media are going the “obstruction” route but that will come to naught as there is no underlying crime, even if the accusation is true (Trump is such a DA that I’m sure some of it is); YouTube is helping to push this narrative by including “authoritative” videos on the subject with conspiracy hacks like Nadler and Schiff. However, this isn’t the 1970s, and I suspect that neither congressional republicans nor his supporters will let the man go like they did with Nixon. This isn’t the same country anymore and the media has thoroughly discredited themselves with this Russiagate conspiracy nonsense to the point that any revelation will be met with disbelief and even anger. In a corrupt multicultural – oligarchical – country, only power matters. Trump could have strangled a guy and it wouldn’t matter at this point…even to a guy like me who is usually quite moderate. To paraphrase Joel Stein’s admission on who really controls Hollywood, “Yes we run it, and I hope my tribe continues on running it.” Same here. Who, whom? That’s your country now.

  52. Drop another tab and it will all start to make sense.

  53. anon[259] • Disclaimer says:

    “PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn’t concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent.”

    Good advice. Consult the case of Martha Stewart if you need more proof of what can happen. I believe she was indicted on charges of making false statements and “obstruction”. In fact, several of her associates were indicted on the “making false statements to investigators” charge back in the day. And you know who filed those charges? None other than James Comey himself.

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20030605thursday.html

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The prior record of both Comey and Mueller is a sick joke. They're Gorelick-class.
  54. @Blind Melon
    I’ve watched and read about trump since the 80's. Enough so that I’ve been a decent guesser of how he’ll play things as they are presented. I’ve noticed he tends to move laterally. That is, he doesn’t like to play outside his wheelhouse. He doesn’t have the patience to learn a new game.

    That’s why all the Russia bullshit was out of the question for a guy like him. He would not bother with it, unless it was dropped in his lap in a neat little bow. And even then, he wouldn’t go whole hog on it. It’s just not how he rolls. He stays in his wheelhouse.

    I don’t get how the media is always outwitted by him. He’s very consistent in his patterns. He’s a "happy asshole," but he’s predictable. They can’t seem to get over the "happy asshole" part of him, so they always shoot themselves in the foot, and cry about it.

    The media figure who handles him with the most skill is Ann Coulter.

    Not coincidentally, another "happy asshole."

    I love both the little bullies!

    The media people all went to schools with strong anti-bullying programs so they’ve been left as vulnerable (ostensibly to Trump, but Trump has nothing on the fakeleft who gives them their marching orders) as the kids of anti-vaxxers are to measles.

    It’s more obvious in R leadership types (John Roberts, Paul Ryan et al) who run at the first sound of enemy fire.

  55. @PiltdownMan
    As far as covert operations go, if the Russian "meddling" was a Kremlin coordinated effort at all, it seems to have been a low-budget, very small scale and amateurish operation that was meant to be discovered. There is considerable cybersecurity talent in Russia, it is unlikely that they inadvertently left fingerprints—they must have done this in a manner to ensure that "they" were traceable.

    My speculation is that this was some kind of shot across the bow by Russia's clandestine services to ours, in retaliation for our extensive meddling in their near abroad in the last decade or so.

    The effects on our political scene have been disproportionately large. I'd guess unexpectedly so, from the Russian foreign policy and strategic point of view.

    Is this like the Far Side cartoon where a Pleistocene hunter has brought down a mammoth with a single arrow to its belly. The caption reads, “We better write that spot down!”

  56. @Jack D
    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that's what they get paid for. Part of Putin's shtick is to discredit democracies - see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn't occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump's election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn't even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints - I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn't do a 100% job. They don't have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke - none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    There has never been any actual proof that “Russians” …unidentified, always unidentified of course… were involved in anything–at least none that has ever been made public. The Rooshians have been at the intelligence game since Peter the Great. The likelihood that they left fingerprints, though not impossible, is slim. One of the ironies of this whole mess is that the United States itself may have interfered with the RUSSIAN election 1996 election (on behalf of the besotted Boris Yeltsin)–with the blessings of Madame’s Husband-of-Record. If–Big “if”– Russia was involved in the US 2016 election, could it have constituted “payback time”? What’s that old saying about what goes around comes around?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Right, like they didn't leave any fingerprints in the Skirpal poisoning. Russian intelligence agents are the Russian equivalent of our own Keystone Kops and don't have superpowers.
  57. @nebulafox
    Mike Flynn was a professional who had the gall to suggest that Putin's Russia might not quite have the heft to be the threat the USSR was, economically or ideologically. That was his real crime in a Beltway where a Second Cold War is viewed as desirable and inevitable. His views on Iran were very primitive and he shared the over-the-top Israel-philia common in the Army and Air Force where evangelical Christianity is a major force, so I can't say I'm a deep fan of his, but that's par on course for a generation of US military generals who remember 1979 as young 'uns, so I'm not going to condemn him as particularly unique.

    (I should note that the IDF does not suffer from similar issues of ideological group think masquerading as analysis, regardless of what Bibi is bandying about. Ehud Barak had been quite candid that he's more worried what Pakistan will do with the atomic bomb than Iran. My Sunni Pakistani former roommate-an impeccably gentlemanly older computational physicist-heartily agreed.)

    I agree on politics and policy with Flynn and Manafort more than most swamp creatures.

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.

    Flynn was offering to help extradite Steve’s favorite Turkish American for $$$.

    • Replies: @bored identity




    " Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime. "

     

    bored identity strongly believes that accepting this claim as Lot's principal position on the issue of "unregistered foreign lobbying" can be only interpreted as just another failed attempt of.... unregistered foreign lobbying.
    , @Twinkie

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.
     
    I don’t have a problem with these prosecutions. I have a problem with the rest of the permanent DC that engage in similar, or worse, crimes not being prosecuted.
    , @nebulafox
    Yeah, that's fair enough. But I'll echo everybody else on the nature of The Swamp enough to imply that Flynn's corruption, while real and condemnatory, probably wasn't exactly what was really on Official DC's mind.

    (For my part, if I were President, whether I'd extradite him would depend entirely on how much Erdogan would be willing to pay for him, not so much in terms of money so much as geopolitical interests. My guess would be not enough, so he'd stay. I'm an amoral bastard when it comes to foreign policy, but at least I'll be straight about it.)

  58. “What do you think?”

    Five minutes ’til Wapner!

  59. The probe wrecked Trump’s presidency, just as Tucker Carlson said.

    Trump has done nothing on immigration and probably won’t.

    As Trump rolled over for open borders globalism the probe went away.

    Nice “coincidence.”

    • Agree: bored identity
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    That assumes Trump was actually going to do anything on immigration. President Ivanka talked him out of it.
  60. @anon
    "PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn’t concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent."

    Good advice. Consult the case of Martha Stewart if you need more proof of what can happen. I believe she was indicted on charges of making false statements and "obstruction". In fact, several of her associates were indicted on the "making false statements to investigators" charge back in the day. And you know who filed those charges? None other than James Comey himself.

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/featured_articles/20030605thursday.html

    The prior record of both Comey and Mueller is a sick joke. They’re Gorelick-class.

  61. @James Braxton
    A British intelligence officer was paid by Clinton to create a fake dossier for the purpose of damaging Trump. The fake dossier was then used as a basis for spying on the Trump campaign.

    This seems much more sinister than the Russian facebook ads.

    But British meddling in the election isn't a "thing" good people worry about.

    Christopher Steele created the Dossier by colluding with Russian agents and Kremlin officials. Thus Clinton was colluding with Russians via unregistered foreign agent Steele. And they paid Fusion GPS with unauthorized campaign funds to disseminate the Dossier to media outlets to meddle in the election.

    If Trump had paid Steele and Fusion GPS to collude with Russian agents to obtain dirt on Clinton he would have been indicted by Mueller for colluding with Russia to win the election. Comey and his FBI cronies would be indicted for lying to the courts to spy on the DNC operatives using the opposition research to create a false narrative based on the Dossier, to further the Russian interference objective.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Clinton colluded with Russian efforts to spread lies about her opponent.

    Trump didn't cullude with Russian efforts to reveal the truth about his.
  62. anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    Israel and US interests align. Qatar and US interests don't. Also Israel has no TV channel piped directly into American homes.

    CNNMSNBCFoxNewsCBSABCNBC don’t count?

  63. Hey, remember when defamation was like really really bad? Remember that? I think it was even illegal in some places. I guess defamation is perfectly legal when you combine it with sedition. It’s like multiplying negative numbers.

  64. If the House impeaches Trump it will be hard for R donors to resist the idea of President Pence, given how fast and easily he caved to them in Indiana.

    • Replies: @Ted Bell
    I'm all in favor of impeachment, and conviction, but not for the same reason as the swamp creatures. If they successfully overturn an election based on this flaming turd, it's game on. It's not looking like Agent Orange will make America great again by his actions as president. But his martyrdom may get the ball rolling.

    https://youtu.be/1RHKuS7vRIo
  65. @Lot
    I agree on politics and policy with Flynn and Manafort more than most swamp creatures.

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.

    Flynn was offering to help extradite Steve’s favorite Turkish American for $$$.

    ” Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime. ”

    bored identity strongly believes that accepting this claim as Lot’s principal position on the issue of “unregistered foreign lobbying” can be only interpreted as just another failed attempt of…. unregistered foreign lobbying.

  66. @Lot
    I agree on politics and policy with Flynn and Manafort more than most swamp creatures.

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.

    Flynn was offering to help extradite Steve’s favorite Turkish American for $$$.

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.

    I don’t have a problem with these prosecutions. I have a problem with the rest of the permanent DC that engage in similar, or worse, crimes not being prosecuted.

    • Replies: @Lot
    I agree, Trump’s DoJ should be jailing more Democrats like Craig for the same thing.

    Lanny Davis and that Pizzagate guy would be good starts.
  67. @El Dato

    such as world hegemony
     
    Which ain't forthcoming.

    Which ain’t forthcoming.

    Not for the lack of US efforts.

  68. the real takeaway:

    1) trump is the cleanest president in history. they got absolutely, positively nothing on this guy. because there’s nothing to get. they’ve investigated his life with an electron microscope for over 4 years now and came away with not one single usable thing. aside from this, with the IRS always auditing him, for decades, and the weaponized IRS being in enemy hands for 8 years under obama – do the democrats really not know every single last thing that’s in his files?

    2) the democrats won here. the trump presidency has been totally derailed. mission accomplished. he wasn’t found guilty? he wasn’t impeached? he wasn’t executed for being a traitor? none of that was the goal. the goal was ruining his presidency, and they accomplished that in spades. the mueller investigation was a runaway success. trump’s credibility and authority have been permanently undermined.

    3) they’re not done yet. they’re going to stick with the mueller report. we didn’t see every word. barr lied. trump redacted. they’re covering their own asses. they’re hiding something. we will subpoena. we will interview. we will drag this out indefinitely. we keep going until we discover the actual truth. all the way to october 2020. this isn’t over. not by a long shot. all mueller report all the time for the next 2 years too.

    of course democrats will continue to open their other avenues of attack over his tax returns, and continue to do whatever they can in new york state with a legal attack there. all successes, all victories, all winning. the democrats attack and attack and attack, it’s irrelevant whether their attacks land and hit or not. they continue and sustain the attack, that’s what’s politically relevant here. republicans mostly refuse to return fire.

    trump lost big here, let’s not get it mistaken. the democrats derailed his presidency and will pay zero price for their missed attack. so of course, the next attack is coming right up. penalty free attacks over and over and over mean it’s a one sided beat down. you can’t survive long term under those conditions. that trump was vindicated one time doesn’t change the calculus here.

  69. The MSM is having a heyday congratulating itself over its accuracy in reporting Russiagate. They are trying to absolve themselves by claiming to have reported every minute detail, as it were … followed by intentionally misinterpreting every minute detail.

    This is very “Jesuit” of the MSM. Like Pope Francis, trading in half-truths as the First Principle of propaganda means you are still a liar using half-truths as a starting point to take narratives in completely misleading and false directions.

    My sense is that the MSM will never recover from its anti-Trump debacle. Due to the Internet, alternative media with alternative points-of-view (our “samizdat”) are here to stay.

    Like living in the pre-Internet Soviet Union, one learns to “read between the lines”. Critically perusing the MSM and their Internet clones in today’s world mean constantly having to “read between the lines” as you watch the purveyors of half-truths make their moves. Going forward, predict this will never change, which is why the Deep State is going to such lengths to censor the Internet. The MSM is no longer credible … and they know it. They are desperate to try to put the “genie” back in the bottle. It can’t be done.

  70. @Jmaie
    Prior to the report coming out, the Democratic position was that Miller was a standup guy and the Republican position was that he was a partisan hack. As of yesterday, the Republicans think Mueller is OK after all and I actually heard a lefty caller claim that Miller was a tool and derelict in his duty. Lol.

    Not really. Both the Democratic and Republican party positions were that Mueller was a stand-up guy. It was only Trump tweeting to subtly imply that he was a partisan hack – which he almost assuredly was, but even partisan hacks work within a particular system and respond to certain incentives.

    Republican establishment position hasn’t changed. Democratic position, predictably, follows whatever benefits the party at the time.

  71. @Jack D

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars
     
    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is? The FBI has been blackmailing or getting rid of Presidents since the 1920s. J. Edgar Hoover was the head of the FBI for 37 years and the only thing that removed him from office was death. Does this sound like something that should be part of a Constitutional republic? Deep Throat was a top FBI official who brought down Nixon. The FBI is not in the Constitution. It is an unelected 4th branch of government. Its history is rife with illegal infringements on civil liberties. It needs to be dissolved.

    PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn't concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent. FBI agents take imaginary "notes" saying that you lied to them and, viola, you're a criminal!

    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is?

    You beat me to it, but worth repeating.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Say what you want about Kim Foxx but at least she sees herself as answerable to the voters of Chicago and tries to give them what she thinks they want. To what democratically elected official was Comey answerable or Mueller and his merry crew? They saw themselves as powers unto themselves, answerable to no one.
  72. @PhysicistDave
    Lot wrote:

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.
     
    You mean because they committed truly horrific, blood-curdling atrocities that would be recognized as monstrously evil in any civilized society?

    Even though half the people in DC engage in similar activities and no one ever flits an eyelash (and the half who don't engage in such "crimes" are under the age of 12)?

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars! Sort of an interesting inversion of the usual banana republic, eh?

    I still have no idea what Flynn did which warranted indictment and prosecution. Apart from being stupid enough to talk to the FBI willingly, and without a lawyer. At least they showed their hand through that little gambit, and Trump learned the lesson: never talk to the FBI.

    • Replies: @notanon
    he talked to them which gave them the opportunity to write up a fake report of what he said so they could say he lied to them.
  73. what are the odds a New York property magnate doesn’t have any financial dirt in his past?

    what are the odds the bad guys could find some of that dirt if they could get the NSA to bug Trump e.g. by inventing the Russia collusion hoax especially if that led to them getting Trump’s lawyer on tax evasion charges?

    if it’s not in the report it’s because they’re using it to make him their puppet.

    MAGA was always a hail Mary pass but the bad guys got him.

  74. @PiltdownMan
    As far as covert operations go, if the Russian "meddling" was a Kremlin coordinated effort at all, it seems to have been a low-budget, very small scale and amateurish operation that was meant to be discovered. There is considerable cybersecurity talent in Russia, it is unlikely that they inadvertently left fingerprints—they must have done this in a manner to ensure that "they" were traceable.

    My speculation is that this was some kind of shot across the bow by Russia's clandestine services to ours, in retaliation for our extensive meddling in their near abroad in the last decade or so.

    The effects on our political scene have been disproportionately large. I'd guess unexpectedly so, from the Russian foreign policy and strategic point of view.

    if the Russian “meddling” was a Kremlin coordinated effort

    it wasn’t – it’s just a clickbait shop – that’s why there were pro and anti Trump ads, pro and anti abortion ads etc.

    • Agree: Travis
  75. @Jack D

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars
     
    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is? The FBI has been blackmailing or getting rid of Presidents since the 1920s. J. Edgar Hoover was the head of the FBI for 37 years and the only thing that removed him from office was death. Does this sound like something that should be part of a Constitutional republic? Deep Throat was a top FBI official who brought down Nixon. The FBI is not in the Constitution. It is an unelected 4th branch of government. Its history is rife with illegal infringements on civil liberties. It needs to be dissolved.

    PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn't concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent. FBI agents take imaginary "notes" saying that you lied to them and, viola, you're a criminal!

    FBI agents take imaginary “notes” saying that you lied to them and, viola, you’re a criminal!

    I’m at a loss at how lying to a Federal agent ever became a felony, and how standards for “lying” in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Who’s stopping them?
    , @notanon
    the political class wanted political police.
    , @MarkinLA
    and how standards for “lying” in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.


    Like a lot of federal crimes, you do not have the financial capability to fight them. You take a plea and spend a few weeks in a club-fed or be bankrupted and possibly have your relatives dragged into it.

    It may not be the Gulag, but it can come pretty darn close.
  76. @Pericles

    even with the redactions this looks like it would have sunk any other president.

     

    Obama will of course merrily bob away, unsinkable, but it was on his watch that the coup plotting got rolling. 1000x worse than Watergate IMO.

    1000x worse than Watergate IMO.

    yes watergate 2.0 this time with the full collusion of the media.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The Senate convicting Trump would be Watergate II. At least that would impugn Watergate I which would be nice.

    What the Ds/deep state did/are doing was/is more or less standard practice, which is why they were/are so sloppy about it.
  77. @Walsh2
    The threes D s of defense work are dodge, delay, and don't pay. If you view Mueller through the prism of a defense atty, which is basically what he was, it was a master stroke in legal maneuvering.

    The Dodge - Russian interference was a farce to begin with. What wasn't a farce was Obama weaponizing CIA/FBI/ETC to spy on Trump. In order to protect Obama/Clinton/FBI you deflect by initiating probe into Trump/Russia ties.

    The Delay - two years of an investigation with open ended conclusion as it relates to obstruction. The obstruction allegations are dubious at best and based on an extremely broad interpretation of the statute but it's enough to keep the narrative moving for those who are so inclined.

    Don't pay - No one, and I mean no one, will pay the price for one of the greatest political scandals in American history.

    No one, and I mean no one, will pay the price for one of the greatest political scandals in American history.

    a successful coup d’etat

    treason never prospers cos if it does none call it treason

  78. @Twinkie

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.
     
    I don’t have a problem with these prosecutions. I have a problem with the rest of the permanent DC that engage in similar, or worse, crimes not being prosecuted.

    I agree, Trump’s DoJ should be jailing more Democrats like Craig for the same thing.

    Lanny Davis and that Pizzagate guy would be good starts.

  79. Last nights KTLA news report on the Mueller report was the exact opposite of what the report actually wrote.

    According to KTLA5, Russia did influence and cause Trump to be elected, Trump’s guilty of obstructing justice although no crime was committed, and Trump is guilty as charged by Muelker. I don’t know how many people pay attention believe it.

  80. @Jack D
    The Russian intelligence agencies probably thought that they would stir up a little shit because that's what they get paid for. Part of Putin's shtick is to discredit democracies - see, things in the West are just as rotten and corrupt as they are here in Russia so what are you guys complaining about? They probably had no idea that it would blow up in this way. The Russian effort to influence the election was very modest and they expected modest results. It didn't occur to them that they would get blamed for Trump's election (because it is not really something that they did). They probably didn't even think that he would win.

    As for intentionally leaving fingerprints - I doubt it. They are not evil super geniuses, just bureaucrats doing their job. They probably covered their tracks as best they could but being human they didn't do a 100% job. They don't have to. All they need is a thin veneer of deniability and the Russian government will cover the rest. The indictment of the Russian hackers is a joke - none of them will ever see a US courtroom.

    You’re well informed Jack. Do you have any opinion about why the Russians would favor Trump over Hildabeast?

    I always thought Russia would favor Democrats as being more crazy corrupt and detrimental.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    They were not big Hillary fans since the whole "Reset Button" episode. But I suspect that they nevertheless expected her to win along with most other "experts". Backing Trump was just a way of letting her know that Putin didn't like her and that if Russia doesn't like you they have ways of making your life more difficult. Just a little calling card from your Russian "friends" like some Novichok smeared on your doorknob (what a great job they did of hiding their tracks there!) If Russia doesn't have the power to achieve its aims in many places (and with a GDP in the same territory as Mexico nowadays, they don't) it at least has the power to act as a fly in America's ointment.
    , @S. Anonyia
    Hillary was a fan of regime change foreign policy and proved it with Libya. Russia is not stupid and figured she was more likely to cause a mess like Bush in Georgia or Ukraine. Also Hillary promised to enforce a no fly zone over Syria.
    , @notanon
    Clinton supported a no-fly zone in Syria which could have easily lead to war with Russia.

    It would make sense for Russia to try and help Sanders or Trump in some quiet way as they were less war-hungry than Clinton but not in an overt way like colluding with either of their actual campaigns which could easily backfire.

    The Russia collusion accusation was always a joke but the bad guys needed a national security angle to get a FISA warrant to bug Trump. I assume on the assumption they were bound to find something unrelated to Russia they could blackmail him with.
    , @nebulafox
    I can't speak for Russia, but the overwhelming majority of Chinese I've met, from scientists to startup founders to shaokao vendors, think that relations with the USA under Trump are smoother than they ever would have been with Hillary Clinton. No matter how lazy or malleable he is, Trump visibly doesn't have an interest in the kind of "democracy and values promotion" that has so enraptured our bipartisan ruling class since the fall of the USSR, with such disastrous results. People in China hear the State Department talking about that, they think about 1990s Russia or 2000s Iraq, or more recently, Libya and Syria.
  81. Romney is “appalled” people “working in a campaign for president welcomed help from Russia—including information that had been illegally obtained; that none of them acted to inform American law enforcement; and that the campaign chairman was actively promoting” Russia in Ukraine— Manu Raju (@mkraju) April 19, 2019

    Watergate II continues to barrel right on down the tracks.

    • Replies: @Travis
    is Romney appalled that Hillary paid foreign agents with illegal campaign funds to collude with Russia to manufacture a dossier used as justification for the FBI to spy of the GOP campaign ?
  82. @Corvinus
    "I haven’t really been paying much attention to the Russian conspiracy theory in recent years, so when I tried to catch up today by reading the Twitter thread of a leading conspiracy theorist, Seth Abramson, I realized I was probably coming in a little too late to ever catch up..."

    You really cannot label him a conspiracy theorist, or the entire matter as a conspiracy, if you admit that you have not been following him, or the situation, closely from the jump.

    But it is more likely than not that you have been reading him all of this time. As a result, what he is saying as a former prosecutor/defense attorney and current professor of journalism is remarkably accurate to you, so rather than do some NOTICING, you chose to label him in that fashion. In this way, you can keep face with your fanbois and fangirlz. Although, in the end, you are acting like the NYT and WAPO, which I thought was a big no-no 'round these parts!

    Still being cagey here, Mr. Sailer!

    Your comments are hilariously stupid. You couldn’t ask for a more perfect illustration of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

  83. @res

    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is?
     
    You beat me to it, but worth repeating.

    Say what you want about Kim Foxx but at least she sees herself as answerable to the voters of Chicago and tries to give them what she thinks they want. To what democratically elected official was Comey answerable or Mueller and his merry crew? They saw themselves as powers unto themselves, answerable to no one.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Alden
    Mueller and crew saw themselves as Democrat party operatives, not federal employees just my opinion.
  84. @Johann Ricke

    FBI agents take imaginary “notes” saying that you lied to them and, viola, you’re a criminal!
     
    I'm at a loss at how lying to a Federal agent ever became a felony, and how standards for "lying" in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.

    Who’s stopping them?

  85. @Jack D

    It is interesting to live in a society in which the people who have connections to the strongman in power are the ones who end up behind bars
     
    Maybe because the strongman in power is not who you think he is? The FBI has been blackmailing or getting rid of Presidents since the 1920s. J. Edgar Hoover was the head of the FBI for 37 years and the only thing that removed him from office was death. Does this sound like something that should be part of a Constitutional republic? Deep Throat was a top FBI official who brought down Nixon. The FBI is not in the Constitution. It is an unelected 4th branch of government. Its history is rife with illegal infringements on civil liberties. It needs to be dissolved.

    PS NEVER talk to an FBI agent, at least not with your lawyer at your elbow, not even if the case doesn't concern you. There are tons of folks who committed no crime UNTIL they talked to an FBI agent. FBI agents take imaginary "notes" saying that you lied to them and, viola, you're a criminal!

    That’s true. Every neighborhood and hamlet police station in the country is well equipped with audio and visual recording devices which are used. Every officer recites Miranda rights. When the ordinary uniforms mess up the Miranda warning it’s all over for the prosecution side.

    But the FBI doesn’t use recording devices and it’s managed to convince judges who are very skeptical of local law enforcement to believe everything an FBI agent claims.

    I still can’t figure out what actual crime of lying to the FBI Martha Stewart committed. RICO is a wonderful law but investigation and enforcement just gave the FBI vastly more powers to send innocent people to prison for
    “Lying “ to an FBI agent.

  86. @Alden
    You’re well informed Jack. Do you have any opinion about why the Russians would favor Trump over Hildabeast?

    I always thought Russia would favor Democrats as being more crazy corrupt and detrimental.

    They were not big Hillary fans since the whole “Reset Button” episode. But I suspect that they nevertheless expected her to win along with most other “experts”. Backing Trump was just a way of letting her know that Putin didn’t like her and that if Russia doesn’t like you they have ways of making your life more difficult. Just a little calling card from your Russian “friends” like some Novichok smeared on your doorknob (what a great job they did of hiding their tracks there!) If Russia doesn’t have the power to achieve its aims in many places (and with a GDP in the same territory as Mexico nowadays, they don’t) it at least has the power to act as a fly in America’s ointment.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    What evidence is there that they did in fact back Trump? They backed Bernie and undermined Hillary but it’s unlikely they took Trump seriously.
  87. @notanon

    1000x worse than Watergate IMO.
     
    yes watergate 2.0 this time with the full collusion of the media.

    The Senate convicting Trump would be Watergate II. At least that would impugn Watergate I which would be nice.

    What the Ds/deep state did/are doing was/is more or less standard practice, which is why they were/are so sloppy about it.

  88. @Prester John
    There has never been any actual proof that "Russians" ...unidentified, always unidentified of course... were involved in anything--at least none that has ever been made public. The Rooshians have been at the intelligence game since Peter the Great. The likelihood that they left fingerprints, though not impossible, is slim. One of the ironies of this whole mess is that the United States itself may have interfered with the RUSSIAN election 1996 election (on behalf of the besotted Boris Yeltsin)--with the blessings of Madame's Husband-of-Record. If--Big "if"-- Russia was involved in the US 2016 election, could it have constituted "payback time"? What's that old saying about what goes around comes around?

    Right, like they didn’t leave any fingerprints in the Skirpal poisoning. Russian intelligence agents are the Russian equivalent of our own Keystone Kops and don’t have superpowers.

  89. @Jack D
    They were not big Hillary fans since the whole "Reset Button" episode. But I suspect that they nevertheless expected her to win along with most other "experts". Backing Trump was just a way of letting her know that Putin didn't like her and that if Russia doesn't like you they have ways of making your life more difficult. Just a little calling card from your Russian "friends" like some Novichok smeared on your doorknob (what a great job they did of hiding their tracks there!) If Russia doesn't have the power to achieve its aims in many places (and with a GDP in the same territory as Mexico nowadays, they don't) it at least has the power to act as a fly in America's ointment.

    What evidence is there that they did in fact back Trump? They backed Bernie and undermined Hillary but it’s unlikely they took Trump seriously.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
  90. @Jack D
    Say what you want about Kim Foxx but at least she sees herself as answerable to the voters of Chicago and tries to give them what she thinks they want. To what democratically elected official was Comey answerable or Mueller and his merry crew? They saw themselves as powers unto themselves, answerable to no one.

    Mueller and crew saw themselves as Democrat party operatives, not federal employees just my opinion.

  91. @Lot
    This is the basic narrative:

    Russia spending $100k on pro-Trump Facebook ads: awful foreign meddling.

    UK amd Qatar spending billions on anti-Trump BBC and Al Jazeera English: Awesome!

    I’m glad that Manafort, Flynn, and Greg Craig’s various corrupt activities got caught up in the Mueller probe, some good came from it.

    Is that what it was all about? Thanks I never could figure out what Trumps crime was.

  92. @Alden
    You’re well informed Jack. Do you have any opinion about why the Russians would favor Trump over Hildabeast?

    I always thought Russia would favor Democrats as being more crazy corrupt and detrimental.

    Hillary was a fan of regime change foreign policy and proved it with Libya. Russia is not stupid and figured she was more likely to cause a mess like Bush in Georgia or Ukraine. Also Hillary promised to enforce a no fly zone over Syria.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Russia had good cause to want that horrid bitch kept out of the White House and if they helped keep her out they did all Americans a favor. Putin doesn't want a nuclear war. Say what you will about Trump, he doesn't either.
  93. @Tiny Duck
    Ncoytrovered evidence of collusion and obstruction

    Democrats been to start impeachment proceedings NOW

    Why don’t you send emails to the Democrat leadership and all democrat senators and Congress critters ? Or get George Soros to bribe and blackmail them?

  94. @Humbles
    I still have no idea what Flynn did which warranted indictment and prosecution. Apart from being stupid enough to talk to the FBI willingly, and without a lawyer. At least they showed their hand through that little gambit, and Trump learned the lesson: never talk to the FBI.

    he talked to them which gave them the opportunity to write up a fake report of what he said so they could say he lied to them.

  95. @Johann Ricke

    FBI agents take imaginary “notes” saying that you lied to them and, viola, you’re a criminal!
     
    I'm at a loss at how lying to a Federal agent ever became a felony, and how standards for "lying" in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.

    the political class wanted political police.

  96. @Corvinus
    "I haven’t really been paying much attention to the Russian conspiracy theory in recent years, so when I tried to catch up today by reading the Twitter thread of a leading conspiracy theorist, Seth Abramson, I realized I was probably coming in a little too late to ever catch up..."

    You really cannot label him a conspiracy theorist, or the entire matter as a conspiracy, if you admit that you have not been following him, or the situation, closely from the jump.

    But it is more likely than not that you have been reading him all of this time. As a result, what he is saying as a former prosecutor/defense attorney and current professor of journalism is remarkably accurate to you, so rather than do some NOTICING, you chose to label him in that fashion. In this way, you can keep face with your fanbois and fangirlz. Although, in the end, you are acting like the NYT and WAPO, which I thought was a big no-no 'round these parts!

    Still being cagey here, Mr. Sailer!

    You really cannot label him a conspiracy theorist, or the entire matter as a conspiracy, if you admit that you have not been following him, or the situation, closely from the jump.

    Seth Abramson and you, Corvinus, are not conspiracy theorists. You are collusion theorists. Collusion theorists are, overall, a lot dumber than conspiracy theorists.

    he is saying as a former prosecutor/defense attorney and current professor of journalism is remarkably accurate to you

    Nobody believes your posturing.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "You are collusion theorists".

    More than theory, friend. Put it this way--are you supportive of having the Mueller report, which was paid by our tax dollars, be made available to Congress unredacted? Why?

    "Nobody believes your posturing".

    It's not posturing, it's commentary. And there are a number of people who share my sentiments. See, you are held hostage by the “post-truth” condition, in which there are no fundamental differences between any kinds of information and everything you see and read is equally suspect--equally likely to be driven by some agenda or systematic bias and therefore equally likely to be something you can or cannot trust. But adopting this cynical posture robs you of your civic agency, your ability to base decisions and actions on credible information.

    I pity, rather than loathe, you.
  97. @Alden
    You’re well informed Jack. Do you have any opinion about why the Russians would favor Trump over Hildabeast?

    I always thought Russia would favor Democrats as being more crazy corrupt and detrimental.

    Clinton supported a no-fly zone in Syria which could have easily lead to war with Russia.

    It would make sense for Russia to try and help Sanders or Trump in some quiet way as they were less war-hungry than Clinton but not in an overt way like colluding with either of their actual campaigns which could easily backfire.

    The Russia collusion accusation was always a joke but the bad guys needed a national security angle to get a FISA warrant to bug Trump. I assume on the assumption they were bound to find something unrelated to Russia they could blackmail him with.

  98. @Desiderius

    Romney is “appalled” people “working in a campaign for president welcomed help from Russia—including information that had been illegally obtained; that none of them acted to inform American law enforcement; and that the campaign chairman was actively promoting” Russia in Ukraine— Manu Raju (@mkraju) April 19, 2019
     
    Watergate II continues to barrel right on down the tracks.

    is Romney appalled that Hillary paid foreign agents with illegal campaign funds to collude with Russia to manufacture a dossier used as justification for the FBI to spy of the GOP campaign ?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    If he needed to be, until contradicted by a non-Republican woman. Admissions against (ostensible) interest are like crack to people-pleasing GOPe types.

    Of course in reality he interested in either a President Pence or another primary run or both so it’s not against interest at all.

    All eyes now on Cocaine Mitch to see just how realistic impeachment might be. Would not be surprised if we’re in another Kavanaugh situation soon with Trump conviction in the Senate.
  99. @S. Anonyia
    Hillary was a fan of regime change foreign policy and proved it with Libya. Russia is not stupid and figured she was more likely to cause a mess like Bush in Georgia or Ukraine. Also Hillary promised to enforce a no fly zone over Syria.

    Russia had good cause to want that horrid bitch kept out of the White House and if they helped keep her out they did all Americans a favor. Putin doesn’t want a nuclear war. Say what you will about Trump, he doesn’t either.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
  100. @Travis
    is Romney appalled that Hillary paid foreign agents with illegal campaign funds to collude with Russia to manufacture a dossier used as justification for the FBI to spy of the GOP campaign ?

    If he needed to be, until contradicted by a non-Republican woman. Admissions against (ostensible) interest are like crack to people-pleasing GOPe types.

    Of course in reality he interested in either a President Pence or another primary run or both so it’s not against interest at all.

    All eyes now on Cocaine Mitch to see just how realistic impeachment might be. Would not be surprised if we’re in another Kavanaugh situation soon with Trump conviction in the Senate.

  101. @Precious
    You really cannot label him a conspiracy theorist, or the entire matter as a conspiracy, if you admit that you have not been following him, or the situation, closely from the jump.

    Seth Abramson and you, Corvinus, are not conspiracy theorists. You are collusion theorists. Collusion theorists are, overall, a lot dumber than conspiracy theorists.

    he is saying as a former prosecutor/defense attorney and current professor of journalism is remarkably accurate to you

    Nobody believes your posturing.

    “You are collusion theorists”.

    More than theory, friend. Put it this way–are you supportive of having the Mueller report, which was paid by our tax dollars, be made available to Congress unredacted? Why?

    “Nobody believes your posturing”.

    It’s not posturing, it’s commentary. And there are a number of people who share my sentiments. See, you are held hostage by the “post-truth” condition, in which there are no fundamental differences between any kinds of information and everything you see and read is equally suspect–equally likely to be driven by some agenda or systematic bias and therefore equally likely to be something you can or cannot trust. But adopting this cynical posture robs you of your civic agency, your ability to base decisions and actions on credible information.

    I pity, rather than loathe, you.

    • Troll: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Precious
    More than theory, friend. Put it this way–are you supportive of having the Mueller report, which was paid by our tax dollars, be made available to Congress unredacted? Why?

    Of course it should be made available to everyone to show how dumb you and Seth Abramson are. The collusion theory is so incredibly stupid, Mueller refuted it.

    It’s not posturing, it’s commentary. And there are a number of people who share my sentiments. See, you are held hostage by the “post-truth” condition, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    ^More posturing.

    # of tweets it would have taken Seth Abramson to say "I told you so" = 1

    I pity you.

    Save it for someone who cares.
  102. The Russian Hoax has made me more isolated socially. These days I find arranging my sock drawer preferable to associating with Whites around me.

    The Whites in my city are almost all good Whites. At every social function they compete in who can come up with the best Russian conspiracy theories.

    One of my favorites was from a man who proudly assured everyone that all of Trump’s voters are racists then proceeded to enlighten us to Trump Tower being one giant money laundering machine. All (and I mean ALL!) of the units are owned by Russians! Once Trump Tower’s finances are investigated (and at any time now as of 1 year ago!) Trump is going to jail. And jail is too good because he is a traitor and bigot!

    These are all highly educated (so much for education) middle class to wealthy Whites. They are, or if retired were, successful in their careers. Yet each one of them automatically mouths like trained seals the taking points du jour of the media. It is Trump Derangement Syndrome 24/7 every day. If challenged they close ranks to reject any bad thoughts. Not thinking and not questioning and instead blindly buying into the insanity reassures them that they are smart, high status thinkers.

    I find now that the only Whites I can stomach are working class and ones with less prestigious jobs and educational backgrounds. They live in the real world and are both less gullible and more tolerant of dissenting opinions.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    I find now that the only Whites I can stomach are working class and ones with less prestigious jobs and educational backgrounds. They live in the real world and are both less gullible and more tolerant of dissenting opinions.
     
    We kind of need to rebuild those ties anyway.

    The goodwhite types around here, working and retired, used to like to talk big during the Obama years but have focused more on friends and family since, at least in my circles. Regular people never have been big into talking politics, but in general will sneak in some pro-Trump remarks here and there.

    , @notanon

    Once Trump Tower’s finances are investigated (and at any time now as of 1 year ago!) Trump is going to jail.
     
    one way to try and flip that is to agree with them but then say he won't go to jail cos the Mueller probe wasn't about getting rid of Trump it was about getting dirt to blackmail him into changing his isolationist foreign policy.

    then if that strikes home follow up by pointing out Mueller was the guy who testified to congress about Iraq having nukes.

  103. @anonymous
    Israel and US interests align. Qatar and US interests don't. Also Israel has no TV channel piped directly into American homes.

    Israel and US interests align. Qatar and US interests don’t.

    How?

    Also Israel has no TV channel piped directly into American homes.

    It doesn’t need to. It has the American media to flack for it.

    But thanks for disingenuous post anyways.

  104. @Prodigal son
    Christopher Steele created the Dossier by colluding with Russian agents and Kremlin officials. Thus Clinton was colluding with Russians via unregistered foreign agent Steele. And they paid Fusion GPS with unauthorized campaign funds to disseminate the Dossier to media outlets to meddle in the election.

    If Trump had paid Steele and Fusion GPS to collude with Russian agents to obtain dirt on Clinton he would have been indicted by Mueller for colluding with Russia to win the election. Comey and his FBI cronies would be indicted for lying to the courts to spy on the DNC operatives using the opposition research to create a false narrative based on the Dossier, to further the Russian interference objective.

    Clinton colluded with Russian efforts to spread lies about her opponent.

    Trump didn’t cullude with Russian efforts to reveal the truth about his.

  105. @TheBoom
    The Russian Hoax has made me more isolated socially. These days I find arranging my sock drawer preferable to associating with Whites around me.

    The Whites in my city are almost all good Whites. At every social function they compete in who can come up with the best Russian conspiracy theories.

    One of my favorites was from a man who proudly assured everyone that all of Trump's voters are racists then proceeded to enlighten us to Trump Tower being one giant money laundering machine. All (and I mean ALL!) of the units are owned by Russians! Once Trump Tower's finances are investigated (and at any time now as of 1 year ago!) Trump is going to jail. And jail is too good because he is a traitor and bigot!

    These are all highly educated (so much for education) middle class to wealthy Whites. They are, or if retired were, successful in their careers. Yet each one of them automatically mouths like trained seals the taking points du jour of the media. It is Trump Derangement Syndrome 24/7 every day. If challenged they close ranks to reject any bad thoughts. Not thinking and not questioning and instead blindly buying into the insanity reassures them that they are smart, high status thinkers.

    I find now that the only Whites I can stomach are working class and ones with less prestigious jobs and educational backgrounds. They live in the real world and are both less gullible and more tolerant of dissenting opinions.

    I find now that the only Whites I can stomach are working class and ones with less prestigious jobs and educational backgrounds. They live in the real world and are both less gullible and more tolerant of dissenting opinions.

    We kind of need to rebuild those ties anyway.

    The goodwhite types around here, working and retired, used to like to talk big during the Obama years but have focused more on friends and family since, at least in my circles. Regular people never have been big into talking politics, but in general will sneak in some pro-Trump remarks here and there.

  106. @Alden
    You’re well informed Jack. Do you have any opinion about why the Russians would favor Trump over Hildabeast?

    I always thought Russia would favor Democrats as being more crazy corrupt and detrimental.

    I can’t speak for Russia, but the overwhelming majority of Chinese I’ve met, from scientists to startup founders to shaokao vendors, think that relations with the USA under Trump are smoother than they ever would have been with Hillary Clinton. No matter how lazy or malleable he is, Trump visibly doesn’t have an interest in the kind of “democracy and values promotion” that has so enraptured our bipartisan ruling class since the fall of the USSR, with such disastrous results. People in China hear the State Department talking about that, they think about 1990s Russia or 2000s Iraq, or more recently, Libya and Syria.

  107. @TheBoom
    The Russian Hoax has made me more isolated socially. These days I find arranging my sock drawer preferable to associating with Whites around me.

    The Whites in my city are almost all good Whites. At every social function they compete in who can come up with the best Russian conspiracy theories.

    One of my favorites was from a man who proudly assured everyone that all of Trump's voters are racists then proceeded to enlighten us to Trump Tower being one giant money laundering machine. All (and I mean ALL!) of the units are owned by Russians! Once Trump Tower's finances are investigated (and at any time now as of 1 year ago!) Trump is going to jail. And jail is too good because he is a traitor and bigot!

    These are all highly educated (so much for education) middle class to wealthy Whites. They are, or if retired were, successful in their careers. Yet each one of them automatically mouths like trained seals the taking points du jour of the media. It is Trump Derangement Syndrome 24/7 every day. If challenged they close ranks to reject any bad thoughts. Not thinking and not questioning and instead blindly buying into the insanity reassures them that they are smart, high status thinkers.

    I find now that the only Whites I can stomach are working class and ones with less prestigious jobs and educational backgrounds. They live in the real world and are both less gullible and more tolerant of dissenting opinions.

    Once Trump Tower’s finances are investigated (and at any time now as of 1 year ago!) Trump is going to jail.

    one way to try and flip that is to agree with them but then say he won’t go to jail cos the Mueller probe wasn’t about getting rid of Trump it was about getting dirt to blackmail him into changing his isolationist foreign policy.

    then if that strikes home follow up by pointing out Mueller was the guy who testified to congress about Iraq having nukes.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @TheBoom
    Good point

    follow up by pointing out Mueller was the guy who testified to congress about Iraq having nukes
     
  108. The blogfather’s finest hour:

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/328226/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In '92 and '96 the GOP candidate unsuccessfully pursued an "Annoy the Media, Elect the Republican" strategy but it was too narrowcast a message to help either. Today defiance of Our Betters has become a broader, looser movement than some subscribers to a Newsbusters mailing list ever could put together. It doesn't even carry the Rush Limbaugh/YAF ghetto stigma of the pre-Internet era. The type of the "conservative boob-bait entrepreneur" is still common, just less potent of a social threat thanks to our shrieking homo media that judges everyone to the right of Cher a Klansman.

    Also, Obama proved that it was possible to get re-elected on a Max Headroom kneejerk demagoguery strategy with absolutely no accomplishments in his first term. That's another good trend for Trump, because the Democrats have proclaimed they don't want his voters, for some reason-- and his voters have the minimum advantage of usually existing, breathing, being citizens, etc. and having demonstrated the ability to find a polling place in the past. As long as the electoral college is around national virtue-signaller Democrats don't have the same luxury.

  109. The Donald is doing an awesome job exercising his right to free expression and commerce:

    https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/products/i-spy-trump-tee

    Sorry for not posting this earlier.

  110. @Corvinus
    "You are collusion theorists".

    More than theory, friend. Put it this way--are you supportive of having the Mueller report, which was paid by our tax dollars, be made available to Congress unredacted? Why?

    "Nobody believes your posturing".

    It's not posturing, it's commentary. And there are a number of people who share my sentiments. See, you are held hostage by the “post-truth” condition, in which there are no fundamental differences between any kinds of information and everything you see and read is equally suspect--equally likely to be driven by some agenda or systematic bias and therefore equally likely to be something you can or cannot trust. But adopting this cynical posture robs you of your civic agency, your ability to base decisions and actions on credible information.

    I pity, rather than loathe, you.

    More than theory, friend. Put it this way–are you supportive of having the Mueller report, which was paid by our tax dollars, be made available to Congress unredacted? Why?

    Of course it should be made available to everyone to show how dumb you and Seth Abramson are. The collusion theory is so incredibly stupid, Mueller refuted it.

    It’s not posturing, it’s commentary. And there are a number of people who share my sentiments. See, you are held hostage by the “post-truth” condition, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    ^More posturing.

    # of tweets it would have taken Seth Abramson to say “I told you so” = 1

    I pity you.

    Save it for someone who cares.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Of course it should be made available to everyone to show how dumb you and Seth Abramson are. The collusion theory is so incredibly stupid, Mueller refuted it."

    That is not exactly what Mueller said. You really haven't been paying close attention.

    "More posturing."

    More truth telling on my part, you mean.

    "Save it for someone who cares."

    That's the problem. You don't care about the direction of our nation.
  111. @notanon

    Once Trump Tower’s finances are investigated (and at any time now as of 1 year ago!) Trump is going to jail.
     
    one way to try and flip that is to agree with them but then say he won't go to jail cos the Mueller probe wasn't about getting rid of Trump it was about getting dirt to blackmail him into changing his isolationist foreign policy.

    then if that strikes home follow up by pointing out Mueller was the guy who testified to congress about Iraq having nukes.

    Good point

    follow up by pointing out Mueller was the guy who testified to congress about Iraq having nukes

  112. @Desiderius
    If the House impeaches Trump it will be hard for R donors to resist the idea of President Pence, given how fast and easily he caved to them in Indiana.

    I’m all in favor of impeachment, and conviction, but not for the same reason as the swamp creatures. If they successfully overturn an election based on this flaming turd, it’s game on. It’s not looking like Agent Orange will make America great again by his actions as president. But his martyrdom may get the ball rolling.

    • Replies: @Ted Bell
    Correction-
    POLITICAL martyrdom.

    I would hope that would be obvious. But in clown world, I don't want to take any chances.
  113. @Ted Bell
    I'm all in favor of impeachment, and conviction, but not for the same reason as the swamp creatures. If they successfully overturn an election based on this flaming turd, it's game on. It's not looking like Agent Orange will make America great again by his actions as president. But his martyrdom may get the ball rolling.

    https://youtu.be/1RHKuS7vRIo

    Correction-
    POLITICAL martyrdom.

    I would hope that would be obvious. But in clown world, I don’t want to take any chances.

  114. @Lot
    I agree on politics and policy with Flynn and Manafort more than most swamp creatures.

    Illegally hoovering up foreign money as an unregistered foreign lobbyist and then not paying taxes in it though is a crime.

    Flynn was offering to help extradite Steve’s favorite Turkish American for $$$.

    Yeah, that’s fair enough. But I’ll echo everybody else on the nature of The Swamp enough to imply that Flynn’s corruption, while real and condemnatory, probably wasn’t exactly what was really on Official DC’s mind.

    (For my part, if I were President, whether I’d extradite him would depend entirely on how much Erdogan would be willing to pay for him, not so much in terms of money so much as geopolitical interests. My guess would be not enough, so he’d stay. I’m an amoral bastard when it comes to foreign policy, but at least I’ll be straight about it.)

  115. @Precious
    More than theory, friend. Put it this way–are you supportive of having the Mueller report, which was paid by our tax dollars, be made available to Congress unredacted? Why?

    Of course it should be made available to everyone to show how dumb you and Seth Abramson are. The collusion theory is so incredibly stupid, Mueller refuted it.

    It’s not posturing, it’s commentary. And there are a number of people who share my sentiments. See, you are held hostage by the “post-truth” condition, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    ^More posturing.

    # of tweets it would have taken Seth Abramson to say "I told you so" = 1

    I pity you.

    Save it for someone who cares.

    “Of course it should be made available to everyone to show how dumb you and Seth Abramson are. The collusion theory is so incredibly stupid, Mueller refuted it.”

    That is not exactly what Mueller said. You really haven’t been paying close attention.

    “More posturing.”

    More truth telling on my part, you mean.

    “Save it for someone who cares.”

    That’s the problem. You don’t care about the direction of our nation.

    • Replies: @Precious
    That is not exactly what Mueller said. You really haven’t been paying close attention.

    Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect.

    That’s the problem. You don’t care about the direction of our nation.

    There is no "our nation" Corvinus. I am part of the American nation, and you aren't. You are a fake American, regardless of where you were born or what paperwork you have.
  116. @Corvinus
    "Of course it should be made available to everyone to show how dumb you and Seth Abramson are. The collusion theory is so incredibly stupid, Mueller refuted it."

    That is not exactly what Mueller said. You really haven't been paying close attention.

    "More posturing."

    More truth telling on my part, you mean.

    "Save it for someone who cares."

    That's the problem. You don't care about the direction of our nation.

    That is not exactly what Mueller said. You really haven’t been paying close attention.

    Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect.

    That’s the problem. You don’t care about the direction of our nation.

    There is no “our nation” Corvinus. I am part of the American nation, and you aren’t. You are a fake American, regardless of where you were born or what paperwork you have.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect."

    The reality is that Putin spoke with numerous members of the Trump team before Trump took the Oval Office.

    "I am part of the American nation, and you aren’t."

    You mean WE are part of the American nation.

    "You are a fake American, regardless of where you were born or what paperwork you have."

    Not quite. You really have no idea what you are talking about.
  117. Anonymous[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    The blogfather’s finest hour:

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/328226/

    In ’92 and ’96 the GOP candidate unsuccessfully pursued an “Annoy the Media, Elect the Republican” strategy but it was too narrowcast a message to help either. Today defiance of Our Betters has become a broader, looser movement than some subscribers to a Newsbusters mailing list ever could put together. It doesn’t even carry the Rush Limbaugh/YAF ghetto stigma of the pre-Internet era. The type of the “conservative boob-bait entrepreneur” is still common, just less potent of a social threat thanks to our shrieking homo media that judges everyone to the right of Cher a Klansman.

    Also, Obama proved that it was possible to get re-elected on a Max Headroom kneejerk demagoguery strategy with absolutely no accomplishments in his first term. That’s another good trend for Trump, because the Democrats have proclaimed they don’t want his voters, for some reason– and his voters have the minimum advantage of usually existing, breathing, being citizens, etc. and having demonstrated the ability to find a polling place in the past. As long as the electoral college is around national virtue-signaller Democrats don’t have the same luxury.

  118. @Precious
    That is not exactly what Mueller said. You really haven’t been paying close attention.

    Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect.

    That’s the problem. You don’t care about the direction of our nation.

    There is no "our nation" Corvinus. I am part of the American nation, and you aren't. You are a fake American, regardless of where you were born or what paperwork you have.

    “Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect.”

    The reality is that Putin spoke with numerous members of the Trump team before Trump took the Oval Office.

    “I am part of the American nation, and you aren’t.”

    You mean WE are part of the American nation.

    “You are a fake American, regardless of where you were born or what paperwork you have.”

    Not quite. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

    • Replies: @Precious
    The reality is that Putin spoke with numerous members of the Trump team before Trump took the Oval Office.

    That is why collusion theorists like you and Seth Abramson are dumb. Talking to Trump's transition team doesn't help Putin and Trump go back in time to collude together to fix the 2016 election.

    As soon as news broke that Trump had been elected President, Russian government officials and prominent Russian businessmen began trying to make inroads into the new Administration. They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect.

    You mean WE are part of the American nation.

    Nope, my meaning was quite clear.
  119. @Corvinus
    "Aven also testified that Putin spoke of the difficulty faced by the Russian government in getting in touch with the incoming Trump administration. According to Aven, Putin indicated that he did not know with whom formally to speak and generally did not know the people around the President-Elect."

    The reality is that Putin spoke with numerous members of the Trump team before Trump took the Oval Office.

    "I am part of the American nation, and you aren’t."

    You mean WE are part of the American nation.

    "You are a fake American, regardless of where you were born or what paperwork you have."

    Not quite. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

    The reality is that Putin spoke with numerous members of the Trump team before Trump took the Oval Office.

    That is why collusion theorists like you and Seth Abramson are dumb. Talking to Trump’s transition team doesn’t help Putin and Trump go back in time to collude together to fix the 2016 election.

    As soon as news broke that Trump had been elected President, Russian government officials and prominent Russian businessmen began trying to make inroads into the new Administration. They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect.

    You mean WE are part of the American nation.

    Nope, my meaning was quite clear.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "That is why collusion theorists like you and Seth Abramson are dumb. Talking to Trump’s transition team doesn’t help Putin and Trump go back in time to collude together to fix the 2016 election."

    Pay closer attention. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge. However, there are several ongoing investigations based on Mueller's work regarding collusive acts. You just simply do not know what you are talking part.

    "Nope, my meaning was quite clear."

    No, you meaning was muddled. Again, WE are part of the American nation. You don't get to pick and choose which naturalized citizens are "legitimate" and "illegitimate". Try harder next time.
  120. @Precious
    The reality is that Putin spoke with numerous members of the Trump team before Trump took the Oval Office.

    That is why collusion theorists like you and Seth Abramson are dumb. Talking to Trump's transition team doesn't help Putin and Trump go back in time to collude together to fix the 2016 election.

    As soon as news broke that Trump had been elected President, Russian government officials and prominent Russian businessmen began trying to make inroads into the new Administration. They appeared not to have preexisting contacts and struggled to connect with senior officials around the President-Elect.

    You mean WE are part of the American nation.

    Nope, my meaning was quite clear.

    “That is why collusion theorists like you and Seth Abramson are dumb. Talking to Trump’s transition team doesn’t help Putin and Trump go back in time to collude together to fix the 2016 election.”

    Pay closer attention. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge. However, there are several ongoing investigations based on Mueller’s work regarding collusive acts. You just simply do not know what you are talking part.

    “Nope, my meaning was quite clear.”

    No, you meaning was muddled. Again, WE are part of the American nation. You don’t get to pick and choose which naturalized citizens are “legitimate” and “illegitimate”. Try harder next time.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Pay closer attention. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge.
     
    No, the Report specifically states no evidence, not just not enough to convict.
  121. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge.

    Correct…

    the investigation examined whether these contacts involved or resulted in coordination or a conspiracy with the Trump Campaign and Russia, including with respect to Russia providing assistance to the Campaign in exchange for any sort of favorable treatment in the future. Based on the available information, the investigation did not establish such coordination.

    However, there are several ongoing investigations based on Mueller’s work regarding collusive acts.

    That’s why collusion theorists are dumb. Mueller investigated Trump, he interviewed and investigated everyone he needed to, and he finished. There is no one left to talk to, interview or investigate that could have worked with Trump to collude with Russia. There are no more leads to follow to link Trump to collusion with Russia. If those other investigations discover some other American citizen colluded with Russia, that citizen did it without any means to communicate and coordinate their actions with Trump. If a person did have a means to communicate with Trump, Mueller already talked to them, examined their phone records, and combed through their email and social media profiles. Those investigations can’t affect Trump at all.

    WE are part of the American nation. You don’t get to pick and choose which naturalized citizens are “legitimate” and “illegitimate”.

    I don’t pick and choose, it isn’t up to me. Naturalized citizens are not Americans. The American nation are those who are American by blood. Paperwork doesn’t change your genetics.

  122. @Corvinus
    "That is why collusion theorists like you and Seth Abramson are dumb. Talking to Trump’s transition team doesn’t help Putin and Trump go back in time to collude together to fix the 2016 election."

    Pay closer attention. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge. However, there are several ongoing investigations based on Mueller's work regarding collusive acts. You just simply do not know what you are talking part.

    "Nope, my meaning was quite clear."

    No, you meaning was muddled. Again, WE are part of the American nation. You don't get to pick and choose which naturalized citizens are "legitimate" and "illegitimate". Try harder next time.

    Pay closer attention. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge.

    No, the Report specifically states no evidence, not just not enough to convict.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    You mean not enough evidence to indict and convict. It is a 90% threshold here, a very tough standard, as it should be. Mueller has evidence, make no mistake about it. So, say if the evidence is at a 75% level, you don't think that is rather high and suggests malfeasance on the part of Trump and his administration?
  123. @Desiderius

    Pay closer attention. Collusion entails several aspects. There was not enough evidence to meet the standard of proof required to indict and convict on that particular charge.
     
    No, the Report specifically states no evidence, not just not enough to convict.

    You mean not enough evidence to indict and convict. It is a 90% threshold here, a very tough standard, as it should be. Mueller has evidence, make no mistake about it. So, say if the evidence is at a 75% level, you don’t think that is rather high and suggests malfeasance on the part of Trump and his administration?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No, I mean exactly what I said, dipshit.
  124. @Robert Dolan
    The probe wrecked Trump's presidency, just as Tucker Carlson said.

    Trump has done nothing on immigration and probably won't.

    As Trump rolled over for open borders globalism the probe went away.

    Nice "coincidence."

    That assumes Trump was actually going to do anything on immigration. President Ivanka talked him out of it.

  125. @Johann Ricke

    FBI agents take imaginary “notes” saying that you lied to them and, viola, you’re a criminal!
     
    I'm at a loss at how lying to a Federal agent ever became a felony, and how standards for "lying" in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.

    and how standards for “lying” in this context became so loose as to mean whatever the Feds want it to mean.

    Like a lot of federal crimes, you do not have the financial capability to fight them. You take a plea and spend a few weeks in a club-fed or be bankrupted and possibly have your relatives dragged into it.

    It may not be the Gulag, but it can come pretty darn close.

  126. @Corvinus
    You mean not enough evidence to indict and convict. It is a 90% threshold here, a very tough standard, as it should be. Mueller has evidence, make no mistake about it. So, say if the evidence is at a 75% level, you don't think that is rather high and suggests malfeasance on the part of Trump and his administration?

    No, I mean exactly what I said, dipshit.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "No, I mean exactly what I said, dipshit."

    I know, and you are wrong.
  127. @Desiderius
    No, I mean exactly what I said, dipshit.

    “No, I mean exactly what I said, dipshit.”

    I know, and you are wrong.

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