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New York Times Opinion columnist Farhad Manjoo offers the umpty-umpth NYT Op-Ed that summarizes as: You stupid Americans let my nuclear family in, so now I’m going to hector you until you let my entire extended family in, and then they are going to hector you until you let their extended families in. And so on forever.

There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders
Why a brave Democrat should make the case for vastly expanding immigration.

By Farhad Manjoo, Opinion Columnist, Jan. 16, 2019

… Yet there’s one political shore that remains stubbornly beyond the horizon. It’s an idea almost nobody in mainstream politics will address, other than to hurl the label as a bloody cudgel.

I’m talking about opening up America’s borders to everyone who wants to move here.

Imagine not just opposing President Trump’s wall but also opposing the nation’s cruel and expensive immigration and border-security apparatus in its entirety. Imagine radically shifting our stance toward outsiders from one of suspicion to one of warm embrace. Imagine that if you passed a minimal background check, you’d be free to live, work, pay taxes and die in the United States. Imagine moving from Nigeria to Nebraska as freely as one might move from Massachusetts to Maine.

There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders, and we have a political opportunity to push it. As Democrats jockey for the presidency, there’s room for a brave politician to oppose President Trump’s racist immigration rhetoric not just by fighting his wall and calling for the abolishment of I.C.E. but also by making a proactive and affirmative case for the vast expansion of immigration.

It would be a change from the stale politics of the modern era, in which both parties agreed on the supposed wisdom of “border security” and assumed that immigrants were to be feared.

As an immigrant, this idea confounds me. My family came to the United States from our native South Africa in the late 1980s. After jumping through lots of expensive and confusing legal hoops, we became citizens in 2000. Obviously, it was a blessing: In rescuing me from a society in which people of my color were systematically oppressed, America has given me a chance at liberty.

Farhad is of South Asian ancestry, not black, but let’s not make that clear to readers. By the way, who was doing the oppressing in South Africa in 2000?

But why had I deserved that chance, while so many others back home — because their parents lacked certain skills, money or luck — were denied it?

When you see the immigration system up close, you’re confronted with its bottomless unfairness. The system assumes that people born outside our borders are less deserving of basic rights than those inside. My native-born American friends did not seem to me to warrant any more dignity than my South African ones; according to this nation’s founding documents, we were all created equal. Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.

“When you start to think about it, a system of closed borders begins to feel very much like a system of feudal privilege,” said Reece Jones, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii who argues that Democrats should take up the mantle of open borders. “It’s the same idea that there’s some sort of hereditary rights to privilege based on where you were born.” …

Farhad Manjoo became an opinion columnist for The New York Times in 2018. Before that, he wrote The Times’ State of the Art column. He is the author of “True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society.” @fmanjoo • Facebook

 
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  1. People like Mr. SAILER and his readers are a very small minority and the place where I live nobody even bothers reading all that is on his blog.
    Do whatever you guys can.
    2020, Trump will lose.
    Border Controls will be eradicated anyway.
    GOP is the one that did all this with 1986 and 1990 immigration acts. Even though, Bill Clinton wanted to reduce immigration in 1996 and. GOP opposed it.
    I don’t know what is the point Mikedot mike or Piltdown man try to make.
    MARK MY WORDS, WHITES WILL BE A TINY , Persecuted MINORITY BEFORE 2050.
    GOP IS DEAD AND FOR GOOD REASONS.

  2. OPEN BORDERS NOW.
    THAT IS THE FUTURE.

  3. Daniel H says:

    ……other than to hurl the label as a bloody cudgel.

    No Farhad, the bloody cudgel is “Your a racist for challenging me.”

    • Agree: ben tillman
  4. newrouter says:

    Laura Loomer should take her “illegals” on the road and “Occupy NYT”

    https://www.rt.com/usa/448814-laura-loomer-pelosi-protest/

  5. anon. says:

    This passage is remarkable: “The system assumes that people born outside our borders are less deserving of basic rights than those inside. … Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.” To use iSteve terms, it’s being presented as an argument for Invite the World, but it works just as well as an argument for Invade the World. The author is correct – it is morally unfair that being born American gives you freedoms that people in shithole countries don’t have. Therefore the United States should invade and colonize the entire Third World, taking our tribute as appropriate, until they figure out how to develop and sustain functional civilizations of their own. If so many billions of people desire to live under American rule, why should we deny it to them? Give colonialism a chance.

  6. anon1 says:

    Accepting his logic there is no more value being born in the country then not. Which devalues citizenship to the point of meaninglessness.

    • Agree: San Fernando Curt
  7. Notice the sleight of hand:

    “My family came to the United States from our native South Africa in the late 1980s . . . .

    “In rescuing me from a society in which people of my color were systematically oppressed . . . .”

    He wants to make it clear that it was old white Boer government that oppressed his people, sidestepping the question of why his South Asian relatives would want to leave now that the ANC has been in charge for almost a generation.

    • Agree: 415 reasons
  8. rufus says:

    “It’s the same idea that there’s some sort of hereditary rights to privilege based on where you were born.” …

    That’s called a nation. Millions of our ancestors died creating it. Tellingly when the situations were reversed it was called colonialism. These are simply self serving polemical efforts to gain access to resources and wealth manjoo and his antecedents had no role in creating. Wealth that arose from great sacrifice, labor and ingenuity. Spend less time worshiping cows and breeding indiscriminately and you wont have to flee the corrupt failed societies youve created in your own lands. Until then save the advice on how to build a prosperous one.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  9. “When you see the immigration system up close, you’re confronted with its bottomless unfairness.”

    Mr. Manjoo (if that is indeed your real name — and by golly…), please don’t visit any DNC donors in West Hollywood. Bottomlessness and unfairness seem common there.

    • LOL: Daniel H
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  10. Funny innit how somehow they always forget to mention what Americans’ liberty actually cost. It wasn’t free. In my family tree are dozens of casualties from the Revolution through the Civil and the Korean & Vietnam wars. Yet hadji here thinks the entire world should be freely given what my ancestors suffered specifically for me and my children.

    Why doesn’t hadji go home and EARN some damn freedom the way Americans did?

  11. @M Krauthammar

    For a Troll, you speak much truth..

    • Agree: Sean
  12. syonredux says:

    When you see the immigration system up close, you’re confronted with its bottomless unfairness. The system assumes that people born outside our borders are less deserving of basic rights than those inside.

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, the pursuit of Happiness, and residence in the United States”

    My native-born American friends did not seem to me to warrant any more dignity than my South African ones; according to this nation’s founding documents, we were all created equal. Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.

    WOW. I had no idea that the USA was the only place on Earth where one can experience freedom….

    Imagine that if you passed a minimal background check, you’d be free to live, work, pay taxes and die in the United States.

    Bigot. The so-called native born don’t have to pass any background checks. If all people are equal, why should immigrants have to?

    Imagine moving from Nigeria to Nebraska as freely as one might move from Massachusetts to Maine.

    Current population of Nigeria: approx 190 million….

    “When you start to think about it, a system of closed borders begins to feel very much like a system of feudal privilege,” said Reece Jones, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii who argues that Democrats should take up the mantle of open borders. “It’s the same idea that there’s some sort of hereditary rights to privilege based on where you were born.” …

    Indeed. Much like the closed system of inheritance that excludes me from my rightful share of the Sackler family fortune…..

    • Replies: @415 reasons
    , @LostHopeless
  13. rufus says:
    @M Krauthammar

    You’re a semi literate and your words are meaningless.

  14. fish says:
    @M Krauthammar

    Ohs Tinys…….

    Why yu be wearins yo Mike Kraut Hammers mask todays? You knows it oogs Lendsperg O U T.

    Lendspren “Wut be up wit all teh KAPSPITAL LETTERZ” Pizt

  15. How much Open Borders Special Pleading is merely the vocalized resentment, insecurity by 3rd World emigres over the squalor in their homelands in contrast to the higher civility in the West?

    South Asians feel irritated & embarrassed that 1/3rd of their homeland coethnics still defecate in the street and live in favellas scrounging for means and they can’t contain their anger:

    Bring all my coethnics here! Now!
    Camp of the Saints is Racist!
    But bring 500 Million of my coethnics here anyway so I don’t feel like an outsider here!

    • Replies: @anon
  16. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:

    But why had I deserved that chance, while so many others back home — because their parents lacked certain skills, money or luck — were denied it?

    Why do New York Times hiring practices discriminate against people who are illiterate?
    Why do actuarial exams discriminate against the innumerate?

    How much do you want to bet that when Manjoo means home, he’s really thinking of India(a country that has traditionally elevated hereditary privilege to an art form)? What is the black percentage of the ZIP code where he lives?

  17. Buck says:

    In the late 80’s it was apparent that Apartheid in South Africa was going to end and blacks were going to either enact revenge or run the nation into the ground or both. Smart folks who could leave headed for the exits. But Nelson Mandela turned out to be a better leader and was able to assuage black wrath for a while. Now that he’s gone, the gloves are coming off and it’s only going to get nastier in South Africa.

    Years ago, I was talking to a former South African Jew whose family was in the diamond business (of course.) They had fled to Israel just as Apartheid was ending. We were in a restaurant in Jaffa discussing his past and the current situation with the Palestinians. He said the blacks of South Africa and the Palestinians were very similar in that some people were incapable of self-rule.

    Apparently Manjoo is of the same opinion. “It’s like a feudal system, some people just needed to be lorded over. If they were capable of self-rule, America wouldn’t need open borders. But seeing as their countries will always be shite holes, it would be morally wrong to keep them out.”

    Manjoo’s shorter argument: America must have open borders because brown people are incapable of self-rule.

    • Replies: @Joe862
  18. I agree. Tomorrow I am leaving for Honduras. I intend to annex a couple hundred miles of land. If the natives do not like it, I will expel them from my land.
    Open borders in the USA? Only if we abolish our welfare system.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    , @Redneck farmer
  19. Dr. X says:

    I have a better idea that no one’s talking about: after we build the wall, let’s shut down ALL immigration for the next fifty years — just like we did in 1924.

    I grew up in a nation of 200 million people, 90% of whom were white. Now I live in a nation of 320 million, 60% white. I liked the Old America better, thank you kindly.

    The’re selling stickers that I’ve seen on a few trucks out there that have the slogan “Fuck off, We’re Full!” superimposed on a map of the U.S.

    My thoughts exactly.

    • Agree: Hunsdon, Joseph Doaks
  20. But why had I deserved that chance, while so many others back home — because their parents lacked certain skills, money or luck — were denied it?

    Good question. The answer to that is, ‘everyone makes mistakes.’

    You might think that Mr. Manjoo would realize that the reason he is here is because, contra, well, his entire piece, America has the world’s most generous immigration policies, without exception. America in the last five decades has welcomed more immigrants than the rest of the world combined.

    Let’s not even get into countries featuring people named ‘Farhad Manjoo.’ They don’t even take in other people with names like ‘Farhad Manjoo.’

    You might think Mr. Manjoo would have some gratitude, given that he lives in America because Americans felt sorry for his family and gave them a chance to make a new life here.

    But you would be wrong. America welcomed untold numbers from every shithole on earth, but they will never forgive us for not bringing all of them.

    Gratitude requires self-awareness and grace, but Mr. Manjoo and so many others never see past their envy and resentment.

  21. Tiny Duck says:

    Open borders are inevitable

    Get over it

    Read Adam Serwer

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @fish
  22. J.Ross says: • Website
    @anon.

    It’s Alinskyism, the opponent is responsible for fixing everything.
    That passage works as an argument to keep people like Farhad out. Most “legal systems” outside the light of English Common Law Tradition are scams that promise something like utopia, crash immediately, and either buy off or intimidate people to maintain “legitimacy.” They never question the initial misstep of promising too much, instead they intrigue, pine for wiser leaders, or mope about fantasy pasts. ECLT is brilliant for restricting rather than over-promising. There is a common phenomenon of legal immigrants gradually realizing that US police are not violent scum and that people actually expect you to obey the laws. Over there, the over-promising systems generate too many laws, unenforceable and impossible to obey, with the result that lawlessness is normal.
    While they’re cranking out laws nobody respects, they talk just like Farhad, about everybody’s “rights” and cosmically perfect justice. This kind of destructive incomprehension of our system is exactly why I want them out.

    • Agree: Kaganovitch
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  23. Anon[759] • Disclaimer says:

    Did Ezra reboot Journ-o-List? There seems to be a concerted, coordinated effort to shift the Overton window on this topic lately.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  24. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Scott Adams still thinks only trivial numbers of people on the left support open borders.

    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
  25. ‘…’When you start to think about it, a system of closed borders begins to feel very much like a system of feudal privilege,” said Reece Jones, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii…’

    Hawaii? My, and this is January…

    Hey, everyone: free place to stay. I don’t see on what grounds Reece could keep you from crashing at his pad.

  26. @Tiny Duck

    ‘Open borders are inevitable

    Get over it

    Read Adam Serwer’

    God, you’re dull. You’re not even an interesting troll.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  27. Daniel H says:
    @M Krauthammar

    GOP is the one that did all this with 1986 and 1990 immigration acts. Even though, Bill Clinton wanted to reduce immigration in 1996 and. GOP opposed it.

    GOP IS DEAD AND FOR GOOD REASONS.

    Mr. Krauthammar, you are 100% right on these points. It is the Republicans who, either through omission or commission, are mainly responsible for our demographic disaster, and for that reason we right thinking right-wingers wish and hope for their destruction. Donald Trump is just the first step in that direction. As for your other points, the 21st century is gonna be a hell of a ride.

    • Agree: Trevor H.
    • Replies: @Doogie
  28. There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders…

    No, Faroodi. There isn’t. Quite the opposite. We have our own, homegrown shitholes right here. We needn’t import more. That wouldn’t be moral. It would be stupid. And, please, before you start tooting that old horn, menu variety won’t offset the dumb.

    Why don’t you head back to Bangatooli and open things up there?

  29. @M Krauthammar

    OPEN BORDERS NOW.
    THAT IS THE FUTURE.

    Agree. It is time for a clarifying vote.

    Then those places where the voters want open borders can become an open borders nation, and those places where they don’t the border will be closed.

    Works for me!

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    , @ben tillman
    , @J.Ross
  30. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    ‘…Gratitude requires self-awareness and grace, but Mr. Manjoo and so many others never see past their envy and resentment.’

    Who knows what he really feels?

    The sick thing is, envy and resentment is what he feels obliged to feign.

  31. @anon.

    If so many billions of people desire to live under American rule, why should we deny it to them? Give colonialism a chance.

    This has a similar snarky logic to the open borders movement. But there is no cultural influence behind that. All the big influential political advocacy outlets such as NYT, WSJ, WaPo, the Economist, Reason, Vox, etc back open borders.

    Next, in all seriousness, that’s the AnCap goal: spread functioning institutions that people want around the world. Not by conquering them, but by letting them vote for what they want with opt-in type selection. People want functioning markets and currency, contract systems, safe streets, etc around the globe. Give it to them and overrule legacy nations and governments.

  32. @Dave Pinsen

    Scott Adams still thinks only trivial numbers of people on the left support open borders.

    Eric Weinstein is 100% right, he hits the nail on the head, and Scott Adams is ridiculous. I’m quite disappointed to hear Scott Adams make such blind ridiculous arguments.

    It’s bizarre to me, that Eric Weinstein supported Bernie Sanders after making so much sense on some issues like this. The Eric Weinstein interviews with Joe Rogan are must watches.

  33. istevefan says:

    Economically and strategically, open borders isn’t just a good plan — it’s the only chance we’ve got. America is an aging nation with a stagnant population. We have ample land to house lots more people, but we are increasingly short of workers. And on the global stage, we face two colossi — India and China — which, with their billions, are projected to outstrip American economic hegemony within two decades.

    There are so many errors in this paragraph I doubt I can address them all.

    First, there is nothing that requires us to have the world’s largest GDP. As people on this blog know the per capita GDP is a better measure of the quality of life in a nation. Hence, Switzerland has better outcomes than Mexcio though Mexico’s economy is about 3 times larger than Switzerland’s. So chasing after the title of world’s largest GDP is not necessarily a goal we need to pursue.

    Second, it is understood that China has had the largest GDP in the world for something like 10 of the past 12 centuries. Thus, during the time of the rise of Britain and her introduction of the industrial revolution, China had the world’s biggest GDP. So while Britain and other European nations were becoming very creative and pushing the boundaries of human knowledge in science,exploration and industry, their economies were all pitifully small compared to China’s. Thus, you don’t need to have the largest GDP to be important.

    Third, the two colossi — India and China, don’t seem very interested in keeping all their people. People seem to want to leave those places and their governments don’t seem to mind them doing so. Maybe having all those people are not what it is cracked up to be. Have a look at the link at the bottom to see the top 10 nations in population and see how many are really just shith*les. Do we want to become a shith*ole?

    Fourth, in regards to the stagnant, ageing population, that can be changed in a brief period of time. Recent examples in Israel have shown that birth rates can be jump-started and trends can be reversed in a short period of time. The key of course is if you put effort into getting the natives to have more kids by making conditions more favorable, or if you immediately throw your hands up, declare the natives are going extinct, and open your nation up to the world. If the government wanted more kids, there are plenty of things that could be done to make things more conducive to having families.

    Fifth, the ample land that this guy and his ilk have their eyes on belongs to the people of the United States, and is a future asset to be used by us and our progeny. This is like having a silo full of seed corn and having some guy from India point and sputter that we have too much food and we need to give it away to him and his. No, seed corn is kept for the future. Our ample land is available if and when the time comes that we and our progeny need to further develop economically. It is not part of the commons that belongs to the world. I suggest people in other parts of the world husband their resources better and let us decide what to do with our own.

    How will we ever compete with such giants? The same way we always have: by inviting the world’s most enthusiastic and creative people — including the people willing to walk here, to risk disease and degradation and death to land here — to live out their best life under liberty.

    No, the way we competed before was to create a system based upon old English common law and traditions that apparently Mr. Manjoo and a great majority of the world find out of touch and in need of change. We also heavily recruited from the European continent and found that those people performed really well. In fact I believe their tenure included a few visits to the moon. As the old saying goes “Dance with the one that brung ya.” So if we want to keep shipshape, let’s stick to our founding principles and stick with the immigrant pool that brought us to this state of development.

    It is simply too risky to recruit from other areas of the world that don’t have the proven track record of the European immigrants.

    Finally for some references to these types of posts:

    CIA Factbook link to the most populous nations in the world.

    CIA Factbook link to the worlds’ economies by GDP

    CIA Factbook link to the world’s economies by per capita GDP.

  34. @anon1

    That’s no bug, but a feature.

  35. @syonredux

    Once they open the borders it should only be another 15-20 years before net immigration drops to 0 once the standard of living equilibrates between the U.S. and West Africa. These libertarian/noe-liberal articles would be hilarious for how disconnected they are from reality if these people weren’t so powerful.

  36. while so many others back home

    Another Fake American writing for the NYT to tell actual Americans how to run thier country.

  37. anon[202] • Disclaimer says:

    Clearly, the author must believe there is something wrong with multiculturalism as he fled South Africa, along with Elon Musk and Trevor Noah, for greener pastures. However, I understand how he could support open borders as it allowed him to flee the multiculturalism he loathed in his homeland.

  38. Dr. X says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    You might think Mr. Manjoo would have some gratitude, given that he lives in America because Americans felt sorry for his family and gave them a chance to make a new life here.

    But you would be wrong. America welcomed untold numbers from every shithole on earth, but they will never forgive us for not bringing all of them.

    No good deed goes unpunished…

  39. DB Cooper says:

    Indians are a very hard to deal with people for those in the know. Indians sophistries are well-known. The corporate media for all sorts of reason may project the image of India as a peaceful democracy that keeps to itself. The reality is totally different. For its immediate neighbors India is a bullying, meddling, land grabbing hegemon. That this kind of behavior is not well known in the West is because India power only allow itself to bully its immediate neighbors but not beyond that. India has grabbed land from every single of its neighbors once the Raj left the scene in the subcontinent. It even gobbled up whole countries, like Manipur, Sikkim. In 1975 after years of behind the scene manipulation by the RAW (Indian equivalent to the British MI5), India sent in a column of army trucks to the independent Himalayan kingdom of Sikkim and annexed the country and kept the Sikkim king in house arrest for the rest of his life. His American wife Queen Hope Cooke managed to go back to the state before the Indian army closed in. Hope Cooke is still alive and lives in New York.
    One way for the US to deal with the difficult Indians is to have the relations between the two countries permanently soured. And one way to do that is for the American people to lobby the US government to explicitly recognize Sikkim as an occupied nation and demand India to withdraw from Sikkim unconditionally. I am sure if the US uses its diplomatic clout to rally the nations of the world to back its position, it will gain widespread support because the US is on the right side of history and the US will regain some moral high ground it clumsily loses because of all sorts of missteps. This will change the geopolitical landscape between the US and India and would indirectly solves the problem of Indians flooding into the US.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  40. @Stan d Mute

    I’d like to thank your family for their service. Without their fight in Korea and Vietnam, liberty would have lost across the world, and in particular in United States. How many children did they kill?

    • Replies: @newrouter
    , @Reg Cæsar
  41. anon[216] • Disclaimer says:

    Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.

    “You didn’t build that!”

    This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
    This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
    This other Eden, demi-paradise,
    This fortress built by Nature for herself
    Against infection and the hand of war,
    This happy breed of men, this little world,
    This precious stone set in the silver sea,
    Which serves it in the office of a wall
    Or as a moat defensive to a house,
    Against the envy of less happier lands,–
    This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this Magic Dirt.

  42. @istevefan

    ” Recent examples in Israel have shown … getting the natives to have more kids” Wait, Israel is making efforts so that the natives breed more often? How come so many of the Israelis speak only Russian at home?

  43. “Obviously, it was a blessing: In rescuing me from a society in which people of my color were systematically oppressed, America has given me a chance at liberty.”

    But I thought the US of A was where all people of pigment were systematically oppressed, or is that not what the Jew, excuse me, New York Times has been telling us for decades?

    • Agree: fish
  44. neprof says:

    A bit off topic Steve, but check out this Chronicle of Higher Education post:

    https://www.chronicle.com/article/Professor-Resigns-Amid/245492?cid=wcontentlist_hp_latest

    Looks like soft slavery is on the rise with increased immigration (from certain parts).

  45. @Stan d Mute

    How exactly did fighting in Vietnam and Korea help AMERICANS be free?? South Koreans should be thanking you, but other Americans?

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  46. Anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @DB Cooper

    You already posted this. BTW are you a Chinese nationalist?

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  47. RonaldB says:
    @AnotherDad

    Do you know that under the original Articles of Confederation, states were viewed more as sovereign regions and reserved the right to regulate and control migration into their borders, even from other states.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  48. There’s too much point and sputter going on in this thread. People need to articulate why he’s wrong. For my part, I think if you only allow “rights” as the legitimate basis for decisionmaking, he has something of a point. For me, the problem is that he is an unpeopled globalist, and nations are not just collections of individuals. We need to make that case explicitly or his logic will win out in the end.

  49. There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders

    Open borders means death.

    Nothing can survive without borders and the associated discrimination between self and non-self.

  50. @AnotherDad

    Agree. It is time for a clarifying vote.

    Then those places where the voters want open borders can become an open borders nation, and those places where they don’t the border will be closed.

    Or an open-borders non-nation.

  51. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,

    I’m sure that you as well as many of UR denizens will recognize Manjoo’s NYT screed to be just an expanded souped-up version of the Wall Street Journal‘s infamous July 4th editorial clarion call for open borders and unlimited immigration!

  52. There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders . . . .

    No, there isn’t. And some of us noticed that you didn’t even try to make one.

  53. Humbles says:

    I agree! In fact, I’ll go Farhad Manjoo one more. Not only do I think that anyone should be able to come from Nairobi to Nebraska or South Africa to San Antonio, I think the opposite should apply. I think a group of wealthy and well armed white men from Virginia should be able to move to South Africa and Kenya and India and Kazakhstan, without let or hindrance. In fact, when you think of it, people obstructing that sort of immigrant initiative are unAmerican! They are opposed to diversity! And undiverse unAmericans should be slaughtered by armed men from Virginia in horrific ways, in order to promote diversity and inclusivity. That’s the American way. Oh and also, Ellis Island!

  54. RonaldB says:
    @flyingtiger

    Abolishing welfare and all public assistance, subsidies, grants, public housing, required access to emergency rooms and services is the basic condition necessary for open borders to have even a theoretical chance of working.

    But this libertarian fantasy assumes people act as individual economic units. In reality, you’d have clans, tribes, villages, and the religion of peace moving here en masse, living together, and acting as a cohesive identity group, either in criminal or political pursuits. It is pure fantasy to think that with third-world identity groups coming in, you’d be able to maintain a minimal government. And that’s not taking into account the mandate for hijra or migration to expand the Islamic faith, that is part of the religion of Islam.

  55. @anon.

    This passage is remarkable: “The system assumes that people born outside our borders are less deserving of basic rights than those inside. …

    Yeah, that lying sack of shit presumes that people born within our borders are not deserving of basic rights at all.

  56. istevefan says:

    Well at least most of the comments at the NY Times appear to suggest its readers do not agree with this harebrained idea.

  57. @anon.

    To use iSteve terms, it’s being presented as an argument for Invite the World, but it works just as well as an argument for Invade the World.

    Invade the world and invite the world are the same thing in principle. Either way, the unleashing of aggression is intended to increase the number of humans under the rule of the empire. You can take the empire to them or bring them to the empire. It’s the same damn thing.

    • Agree: dvorak
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  58. DB Cooper says:
    @Anon

    I repost it because it applies to this article also and I don’t want to retype similar things. Hopefully more people will respond to what I post here this time.

  59. @TheMediumIsTheMassage

    How exactly did fighting in Vietnam and Korea help AMERICANS be free?? South Koreans should be thanking you, but other Americans?

    A much better question would have been how my dumbass ancestors helped by killing their own cousins south of the Mason Dixon.

    Rent a clue. Pretty sure they rent them at Home Depor at the contractor sales counter..

  60. Moses says:

    But why had I deserved that chance..

    Deservin’s got nuttin’ to do with it.

  61. Before that, he wrote The Times’ State of the Art column.

    And before that, he wrote about expensive sweatshirts and losing money on Bitcoin for Slate. He was their technology columnist for years.

    Farhad Manjoo’s credulousness and ignorance helped me “dispel the notion” of competent MSM reporting. I’m saddened to see that he now has a bigger audience.

    John Derbyshire took about 15 years to get US citizenship (he says his wife was a little quicker). Wouldn’t that mean that arriving in the US in the late 80’s and going through the citizenship process as well as Derb’s motivated wife would make him a citizen around 2000? Were the “expensive and confusing legal hoops” he gripes about really such an impediment as he got citizenship within a fairly reasonable time frame?

    Who sponsored Manjoo’s family for citizenship?

  62. @Justice Duvall

    “In rescuing me from a society in which people of my color were systematically oppressed . . . .”

    What an insane lie! If they or people like them were oppressed by whites, they would have left S.A. or wouldn’t have immigrated in the first place. This guy is expressing the extreme virulence that horizontal transmission enables.

  63. Moses says:
    @M Krauthammar

    Channelling my high school biology here — the cell membrane is what makes life possible. Without a cell membrane the cell will dissolve, cease to exist. No life possible without it.

    Borders are to nations what cell membranes are to cells.

    But I think that’s the point — to kill America. For non-Whites to take over White nations and put the boot on Whites.

    Non-Whites must infiltrate and take what they are utterly unable to build in their own lands. Envy and greed.

    Whites will wake up eventually. Yeah, the 21st century is gonna be bloody.

  64. J.Ross says: • Website
    @AnotherDad

    This doesn’t work (because the model is plague), unless you have lots more walls.

  65. Anonymous[103] • Disclaimer says:

    Let the folks in Minnesota and South Carolina grok what we in N. California had already learned: 2nd-generation S. Asians are bossy AF. They aren’t like Amerigo Bonasera at the beginning of “The Godfather.” Actually to them the U.S. kind of sucks, or is at least so defective we’re lucky to be treated to their social policy theories honed over years of refinement via AP exams and Student Government clubs

    • Replies: @LostHopeless
  66. “When you start to think about it, a system of closed borders begins to feel very much like a system of feudal privilege,” said Reece Jones, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii who argues that Democrats should take up the mantle of open borders. “It’s the same idea that there’s some sort of hereditary rights to privilege based on where you were born.”

    It’s a matter of hereditary rights to property, the stuff that WE — and, yes, our parents and grandparents and cousins are WE — created.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Anonymous
  67. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Chrisnonymous

    For my part, I think if you only allow “rights” as the legitimate basis for decisionmaking, he has something of a point.

    Rights can only be rights as defined in our system, inalienable and god given things you are born with, which take nothing from another. This precludes a right to live wherever you want, as well as services like medicine. There is for practical purposes really only one other kind of “rights:” the utopian Christmas-list making nonsense that nobody brings about or means seriously, but which people like Farhad use to try to game benefits out of gullible white people.
    This is the actual root of the problem, both with Farhad’s babble, and with Farhad himself. Our system is literally “let’s take the concept of rights seriously, which requires restricting and defining the hell out of them, instead of making impossible promises with them like everybody else.” You can make an argument of rights-based decisionmaking, but it cannot use the Soviet, Mexican, Chinese or French shell game meaning of “rights.”

  68. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Gratitude requires self-awareness and grace, but Mr. Manjoo and so many others never see past their envy and resentment.

    If you’re not capable of consciousness, are you really human? Or are you just a dumb animal that can walk on its hind legs?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  69. DFH says:

    By the way, who was doing the oppressing in South Africa in 2000?

    The ghost of Cecil Rhodes

  70. J.Ross says: • Website
    @ben tillman

    Just a minute now, Mr Tillman. I don’t know what you grasp about American law but this is a Hawaiian geography professor thinking out loud about his feelings on medieval similes. Case closed [Law and Order sound effect]. The only other place I get legal advice from is Icelandic jazz-influenced cyberpunks.
    ——–
    Isn’t every white person on Hawaii living or visiting there because being physically on Hawaii and not Nebraskan corn confers a unique situation? Isn’t that the whole big deal? Do none of these people have any self-awareness at all?

  71. @Chrisnonymous

    There’s too much point and sputter going on in this thread. People need to articulate why he’s wrong. For my part, I think if you only allow “rights” as the legitimate basis for decisionmaking, he has something of a point. For me, the problem is that he is an unpeopled globalist, and nations are not just collections of individuals. We need to make that case explicitly or his logic will win out in the end.

    What logic? He is saying that there is no such thing as property. He is saying that aggression is morally right. In other words, he is advocating a permanent war of all against all where nothing that anyone produces benefits the producer. He is advocating a certain course to human extinction.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  72. You stupid Americans let my nuclear family in, so now I’m going to hector you until you let my entire extended family in, and then they are going to hector you until you let their extended families in. And so on forever.

    Hectoring is a good word for a certain kind of vibrancy that Americans will be enjoying more and more…

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  73. J.Ross says: • Website
    @ben tillman

    That’s what we need as a basis for who to let in! The Box! A human can stand any pain, an animal seeks escape from the temporary even by sacrificing the permanent.

    • Replies: @bomag
  74. Svigor says:
    @Colin Wright

    AGREE/DISAGREE/ETC.>IGNORE COMMENTER

  75. @Chrisnonymous

    There’s too much point and sputter going on in this thread. People need to articulate why he’s wrong. For my part, I think if you only allow “rights” as the legitimate basis for decisionmaking, he has something of a point.

    We have a right to the country we created. Every imaginable right (i.e., every universalizable ruight) supports our position. No, he does not have a point.

  76. Svigor says:
    @ben tillman

    Of course, a temporary war of Us vs. Them would sort things out PDQ…

  77. Svigor says:
    @RonaldB

    This is how the Constitution works, too. Misinterpretations since 1860 notwithstanding.

  78. syonredux says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    There’s too much point and sputter going on in this thread. People need to articulate why he’s wrong. For my part, I think if you only allow “rights” as the legitimate basis for decisionmaking, he has something of a point. For me, the problem is that he is an unpeopled globalist, and nations are not just collections of individuals. We need to make that case explicitly or his logic will win out in the end.

    Why is he wrong…..Well, let’s see….There’s the fact that he doesn’t carry his anti-hereditarian principles to their logical conclusion: Total Communism……

  79. @Anonymous

    Couldn’t have said it better. They have a very high opinion of themselves and basically sneer at the people who’ve made this country what it is. The rich ones are extremely arrogant, ethnocentric, snooty beta men with a toxic worldview about them. They spit on our faces and ask us to be grateful for it. They are “superior” after all.

    I’m in tech and I’ve seen it up close. I think it could be that, due to caste influence, they genuinely believe we are worthless trash and deserving of being under their boot. Immigration from the subcontinent will bring us some of the very weird and toxic worldview these people have. We might not live to see the day but our children will pay a dear price for it (if they perchance happen to get an “education” that imparts them some skills).

    Else they’d be among the riff raff (the blacks, mestizos and the likes). Either way they would never see the high trust, relaxed and creative society many of us remember from the 80s (outside of hell holes like NYC and LA that have been a dumping ground from the 60s), It’ll be all dog eat dog, Kanpur meets Kansas the crime of tijuana and affordability of Tokyo for most of urban america in a couple decades

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
    , @Svigor
  80. There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders

    I believe Emily Brontë first proposed it in Withering Haidts. Or shot it down. I forget.

  81. @Dacian Julien Soros

    I’d like to thank your family for their service. Without their fight in Korea and Vietnam, liberty would have lost across the world, and in particular in United States. How many children did they kill?

    A hell of a lot fewer than in the war that preceded them. You know… that “Good War”.

  82. @Moses

    Channelling my high school biology here — the cell membrane is what makes life possible. Without a cell membrane the cell will dissolve, cease to exist. No life possible without it.

    Borders are to nations what cell membranes are to cells.

    But I think that’s the point — to kill America

    Exactly.

  83. @J.Ross

    ECLT is brilliant

    Not as an acronym. It sounds like an online women’s orgasm service.

  84. Mr. Anon says:

    As an immigrant, this idea confounds me. My family came to the United States from our native South Africa in the late 1980s. After jumping through lots of expensive and confusing legal hoops, we became citizens in 2000. Obviously, it was a blessing: In rescuing me from a society in which people of my color were systematically oppressed, America has given me a chance at liberty.

    Perhaps we should open the borders to a whole bunch of South Africans of the kind who were oppressing Manjoo’s family, and move them in right next door to him.

    I despise these Indian poppinjays who presume to lecture me about “who we are”, and seem to feel entitled to a piece of a nation that their ancestors did not build, and to which they are alien and quite openly hostile.

    Farhad Manjoo is cordially invited to go f**k himself sideways.

    • Replies: @densa
  85. @istevefan

    Seriously, why are we supposed to be #1 if that means clogged roads, filth everywhere and a general low trust dog eat dog society. I can bet if you stayed in any of the bigger cities of those very dynamic nations, India in particular, you’d feel what we have is vastly more preferable.

    Even today, Bangalore outclasses Bern, Switzerland or even Buenos Aeris Argentina when it comes to the software Industry (H1B data theft notwithstanding). Would you prefer living in Bangalore or in Bern or even Buenos Aeris? Is it wonder these supposedly highly skilled people want to move here (nevermind the crafty language they use to justify it — that it is WE who need their skills and not the opposite)

    • Replies: @BB753
  86. @Kibernetika

    please don’t visit any DNC donors in West Hollywood. Bottomlessness and unfairness seem common there

    Wait… I thought there were plenty of bottoms there, and the real shortage is tops.

    Maybe Farhad could bring some of his Jain friends. Specifically, the ones who pull haywagons with their genitals.

    Though China has the sub-incontinentals beat there, too:

    • Replies: @BB753
    , @istevefan
  87. BB753 says:

    It’s appalling that a University Professor of Geography has no clear concept of what a country and and an international border are.
    Mr. Manjoo is just shameless opportunist.

    • Agree: Bubba
  88. @syonredux

    His talk about “muh freedoms” is about taking the neoCON’s wet-dream idea about “muh freedom” and “muh democraZy in the middle east” and then turning it on it’s head 😀

  89. BB753 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Are they using their scrotum or just the penis to pull their loads? Do their techniques differ? In Western countries, such feats are common too, but we prefer to use our teeth or waists.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  90. Farhad Manjoo is emboldened by numbers.

    50 years ago there were 1.5 million Asians living in America, and no Asian journalist could have penned such a piece.

    Today, Asian numbers are closing in on 25 million.

    What will their numbers be in 2069, and what will Manjoo’s progeny will be writing by then?

    “Shameless” won’t begin to describe it.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  91. There are two elements here that are really striking.

    The first is that the Times is not some fringe rag; the great grey lady had long been a pillar of the establishment, albeit perhaps one over on the left side of the building. To read it giving a platform to lunacy such as this would be a bit like hearing Walter Cronkite advocating total disarmament and capitulation to the Soviet Union in 1968.

    The second is the utter personal dishonesty of the author. He comes from South Africa; he knows perfectly well what the sixty million blacks who once were his countrymen are like. Yet he professes to think it would be wonderful if they could follow him to his new home.

    No, he doesn’t. He’s lying. Worse, it’s an obvious lie, and yet here the Times is publishing it.

    When this sort of nonsense starts pervading a culture, it’s obviously on the verge of collapse

    • Replies: @Arclight
    , @Thea
    , @Trevor H.
  92. What strikes me as odd is that the people who promote open borders are generally the same as the ones who are constantly scolding us for “racism” or reminding us to “never forget” the Holocaust. Yet the Nazi genocide was a response to a huge influx of Jews from Eastern Europe, was it not? Wouldn’t just a wee bit of prudence suggest that welcoming the world to the U.S. would be a very dangerous idea for the newcomers? (Of course I understand that the natives’ lot is not of any interest to anyone.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  93. El Dato says:

    So much dumb.

    Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.

    Human societies: They are actually random geographical regions with a “freedom gauge”.

    I guess when every country adopted the Constitution of the US the freedom gauge would everywhere read “1.0” and there would not be a problem with the random assignment of people to geographical regions using the “birth” process.

    When you start to think about it, a system of closed borders begins to feel very much like a system of feudal privilege,” said Reece Jones

    Studies show that feudal lords put their castles on areas where the freedom gauge reading was pretty high: hilltops, next to cliffs. Or on islands. So there was an enormous amount of freedom inside the walls. which was denied the peasants, peons, mercenaries, Huns, Negros, Arabas and especially Jews loitering about outside — who had to subsist on low-pressure freedom for many centuries. Nobody quite knows what caused freedom to cover vast regions (coincidentally and unfairly inhabitated by the freedom-abhorring “Western Societies”) after, say, the 18th century.

  94. Anonymous[288] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘…. mere accident of geography….’.

    Gosh, I love it. The sophistry – and the *rank* deceit, stupidity, obtuseness, denial and mockery from the immigrationists just never stops. It just gets even more rabid and ridiculous.

    It’s ‘mere accident of geography’ that planet earth lies in the ‘goldilocks zone’ and that life was possible. Likewise, that ‘favored’ species had the ‘niches’ to evolve to forms we see today. That the earth is 70% water and climate gives us fresh water, that certain parts of the globe are arable, that certain food crops evolved in certain localities, that coal and oil and ores are found in certain areas etc etc.

    • Replies: @Moses
  95. Anonymous[288] • Disclaimer says:

    May God Damn Teddy Kennedy.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  96. Anonymous[288] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s strange how people like Far had Majoo passionately decry the establishment of the state of Israel and the subsequent swamping out of ethnic Palestinians by Jewish immigrants from their ancient homeland as the worst and most heinous crime possible, but regard the swamping of white people from their ancient homelands by third world invaders the greatest thing possible.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  97. Anonymous[288] • Disclaimer says:
    @DB Cooper

    The only people who know how to deal with the Indians are Pakistanis, who are basically the same people, Old School Britons – a caste that has entirely vanished from the face of the earth – and the Chinese, who beat their asses in the 1960s.

  98. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman

    Basically, that asshole is trying, in his own way, to undermine *the* vital, basic, fundamental axiom of ‘civilization’ since the very first Polis delineated its very first boundary – and thus defined itself, or in other words ‘created’ itself.
    ‘Civilization’ is derived from ‘civis’ which means essentially ‘governed community’. By logic a ‘community’ is defined by the idea of ‘non community’ or outside against which the delineation can be made – in the same way as the concept of ‘light’ can only exist against the concept of ‘dark’.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  99. Anonymous[309] • Disclaimer says:

    I took one look at that face and thought surely this post was announcing the winner of Steve’s Male of the Year award.

    • Replies: @PIltdownMan
  100. Anonymous[702] • Disclaimer says:

    Channelling that wily old sage AEsop into these modern f*cked up times of universal deceit and madness:

    ‘The Antelope as it is having its throat ripped out by the Lion screamed onto Zeus himself ‘why, but it’s all ‘an accident of birth and denial of my fundamental animal rights – as that clever man in The Economist opined yesterday – that thou createth me as an Antelope and not a Lion’.

  101. There’s a reason the Third World is the Third World, and it is not the lack of magic dirt and opportunity. If he wants to live surrounded by millions of his fellow Thord World denizens, it would be easier and less costly to return him and his family to the Third World and all its vibrance, and let them change that place for the betterment of all there rather than dragging those of us in the First World down to their standards.

    • Replies: @Moses
  102. It appears that an unknown share of the recent wave of immigrants has a fashion sense similar to that of us Brazilians: they’ll wear tee shirts and hoodies with the names of universities and cities they possibly never went to, American brands, and simple English phrases (besides foreign association football teams’ tee shirts, complete with sponsors’ names). I was not able to locate any migrants wearing tee shirts with cartoon characters on them, but I imagine they exist. There are plenty of grown ups doing so here (Mickey Mouse seems to be extremely popular).

    I wonder if the natives also have similar tastes (American natives, that is, not necessarily Native Americans). I wore Benetton hoodies when I was a kid, but I don’t recall seeing many adults wearing that kind of clothes back then (around two decades ago). Maybe they did, and I was just unaware of it.

  103. lulzp says:

    mr. farhad. hm…

    from “the everything store”:

    “rahman spoke fast and had a thick accent, and his malaproprisms, dubbed Kalisms, were legendary. “You all must be smoking cracks!…””

  104. Altai says:

    What I always find incredible about these is basically it’s the same as being invited to a party and then feeling entitled to invite your own friends without the permission of the other party guests.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  105. @Justice Duvall

    Well, everyone knows black run countries are sh-oh, wait.

  106. @flyingtiger

    We didn’t have all these Central American immigrants when United Fruit Company ran the place!

  107. @ben tillman

    No, it’s not. The home country of the Empire is nice, if you keep the foreigners over there.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    , @istevefan
  108. @LostHopeless

    You are not proficient in psychology.

  109. The comments to the NYT article are nearly unanimous in ridiculing it.

  110. Don’t overlook the role of Reece Jones, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii. He’s the one that Manjoo quotes as saying that nations caring for their own citizens is like hereditary privilege. He wrote an editorial for the Guardian a year ago, entitled “Why Democrats should support open borders”.

    It reminds me how Rashida Tlaib, around the day she called for Trump’s impeachment, coauthored an article with Macarthur fellow John Bonifaz, “Time to impeach Donald Trump”. Bonifaz is coauthor of a book, “The Constitution Demands It: The Case for the Impeachment of Donald Trump”.

  111. @william munny

    The improved subscription rates to the New York Times must be due to a combination of those who agree with its editorial positions and those who read it for their daily rage fix. The latter remind me of the commenters here who feel compelled to respond angrily or sarcastically to Tiny Duck, even though that’s exactly the payoff he seeks.

  112. “But why had I deserved that chance,”

    Because what we needed were more effeminate Hindus tsk tsking white Americans in newspapers.

    Only the very best!

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  113. CornCod1 says:

    What if I don’t want to live in a country filled with people who crap in the street? What if I don’t want to live in a country filled with third-world chaos, crime and disorder? I don’t mind sharing the planet with such people. However, I have no desire to live cheek-by-jowl with them.

    • Replies: @LostHopeless
  114. “He is the author of “True Enough: Learning to Live in a Post-Fact Society.”

    He certainly has living in a post-fact society down.

  115. Doogie says:
    @Daniel H

    Donald’s Trump’s administration has seen 3 years of continued annihilation and loss-of-life-expectancy through drugs, alcohol, poverty and suicide.

    The majority of the beneficiaries of his economic affect have been black or brown people.

  116. @Anonymous

    Manjoo seems to hold the conviction
    That Diversity won’t lead to friction.
    So we guess it’s a fact
    That the Raj is intact
    And that Pakistan’s merely a fiction.

  117. CCR says:

    These are the opening shots in WWOB. When Steve was asking for suggestions on what would follow WWG did anyone suggest WWOB?

  118. @Moses

    “Whites will wake up eventually.”

    At what point does “eventually” become “too late?”

  119. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:

    For some reason, it reminds me of the Church of the Latter Day Saints’ practice of post mortem baptism.
    According to the mormons, in order to obtain absolution, one must be baptised into the faith. Anxious adherents to the faith feel that they have an obligation to obtain absolution for long deceased ancestors.
    Thus, individuals who have been dead for many many centuries – who grew up centuries before the birth of Joseph Smith – are ‘baptised by proxy’ into the faith. Why should the ‘accident of time’s arrow’ deny absolution?

  120. Moses says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s ‘mere accident of geography’ that planet earth lies in the ‘goldilocks zone’ and that life was possible. Likewise, that ‘favored’ species had the ‘niches’ to evolve to forms we see today. That the earth is 70% water and climate gives us fresh water, that certain parts of the globe are arable, that certain food crops evolved in certain localities, that coal and oil and ores are found in certain areas etc etc.

    Fair enough, but you’re missing the point.

    North America, Europe and parts of East Asia are rather nicer places to live than the rest of the world not because of some random distribution of natural resources, BUT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE LIVING THERE HAVE CREATED PROSPEROUS SOCIETIES WORTH LIVING IN.

    There are great swaths of Africa blessed with outstanding land, yet mired in misery and poverty. Because of the people who live there.

    Japan is a mountainous, rocky island country with few natural resources. Like Madagascar. But the people who live in Japan have made it one of the most prosperous places on earth. Madagascar, not so much.

    It is no accident that some countries, like Farhoo’s homeland, are sh*tholes and some are not.

    Farhoo is peddling nonsense at best, subversion and ursurption at worst (likely the latter).

  121. Thirdtwin says:

    “…by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it…”

    Global Magic Dirt.

  122. Moses says:
    @The Alarmist

    it would be easier and less costly to return him and his family to the Third World and all its vibrance, and let them change that place for the betterment of all there rather than dragging those of us in the First World down to their standards.

    But that’s not the point.

    The point is to subvert and take over what they are unable to build themselves. Never mind they will ruin it as surely as Blacks are ruining South Africa.

    Envy is the motivator. Envy begets hate. You see it all around us (Sarah Jeong). These people hate Whites, hate our history, hate our culture. Hate us. And we’re letting more into our country every day.

    It will not end well. This is obvious to me like it’s obvious the sea is not above the clouds.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  123. BB753 says:
    @LostHopeless

    Mr. Manjoo’s family voted with their feet when they moved to the United States instead of returning to Mother India, their bountiful, saintly and safe homeland to escape the ANC Bantu hordes.

  124. bomag says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I think if you only allow “rights” as the legitimate basis for decision making, he has something of a point.

    “Rights” require interpretation and enforcement.

    I have a right to use deadly force. That doesn’t mean I can just kill anyone I meet.

    We have a right to life, but I notice people falling all around me. What’s going on?

    There’s a need to guard against absurd interpretations, e.g. every sperm is sacred, in the quest to guard the right to life; thus compelling us to render all matter in the universe into human flesh. Likewise the right to immigrate until our country is an unlivable slum.

  125. bomag says:
    @J.Ross

    The Box!

    Would be an improvement over our current system.

  126. @Anonymous

    I took one look at that face and thought surely this post was announcing the winner of Steve’s Male of the Year award.

    Farhad Manjoo: Men Should Wear Makeup

    • Replies: @Ibound1
    , @Trevor H.
  127. Arclight says:
    @Colin Wright

    Agree – the NYT has gone completely off the rails on social justice stuff. 90% of the editorials and opinion pieces are extremist in tone, which I guess is their way of trying to shift the Overton window. The elites think stuff like mass immigration are fantastic because it adds to the electoral clout of the Democrats, provides some interesting dining options, and ensures they have an adequate supply of nannies and child care providers for their offspring. However, they certainly wouldn’t want to live in a building in which the diversity they promote was put into practice in terms of the racial and socio-economic makeup of their neighbors.

    As for Manjoo, his family went shopping for a country where they thought they could get over on the locals, so tried out SA. Apparently that didn’t work so great, so they relocated to our shores where it’s apparently going well so they want to make sure other enterprising Asians can come over and impose their economic and political preferences on the country. He and much of the left believes you can totally remake the culture of a country and still reap the benefits of the old order – but this is not true.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  128. @Redneck farmer

    It’s the same thing to them, the ones building the empire, which is all that matters practically.

  129. @istevefan

    India and China … outstrip American economic hegemony within two decades

    Let them. Then when they are the richest nations in the world they can become the new target for the worlds refugees.

  130. Ibound1 says:
    @PIltdownMan

    Muhammad (seriously) wore make-up – eye liner to be precise. Kohl. And if their perfect example for all time wore makeup, why you should too. Mr. Farhad Manjoo may have some other even more interesting ideas put up for a vote once all of his billion co-religionists move here.

  131. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Oh Tinys……

    They U be! You un skeered mes wit yo Mikes Krauts Hammerz costuum.

    Now…..bout tonite…..

    Lendsport “tingling wit anticipashun” Plinntx

  132. Looks like the New York Times and the Atlantic Magazine, Comedy Central, Neo Conservative rags are pushing hard to recruit other internationalist Asian anti Whites to push for ending all restrictions on mass immigration in to remaining White Nations, White institutions.

    It s no longer just internationalist Jews – though former leftist Jews from South Africa are now entrenched in UK, USA, Canada,Austrailan media, academic institutions like the New York Times , Stern New York University of course all of Hollywood .

    But it s like organized crime – where the Italian Mafia controlled the top .

    This ex South African Asian anti White ain t going to be writing articles about Israeli border walls and getting published in the New York Times.

  133. Mr. Anon says:

    Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.

    “Accident of Geography” This is like the “Accident of Birth” canard. Geography is not an accident.

    • Replies: @istevefan
  134. Thea says:
    @Colin Wright

    It is strikingly similar to radio broadcasts in pre- massacre Rwanda.

    A collapse implies a new order can arise out of the ashes of the old but it feels more like they are digging in and entrenching themselves in power.

  135. @william munny

    Can you provide a link to these comments ?

  136. @anon.

    Well Britain tried that. Turns out that people would rather be oppressed by their own than ruled “fairly” by a foreigner.

  137. Alfa158 says:
    @anon1

    Duh, that is his objective.
    Global capital is working for the elimination of nations and borders and the free movement of people, goods, resources, and ideas.
    1. It guarantees corporations the absolutely lowest labor costs at all levels of the market, from janitors all the way up to chief technology officers.
    2. It gives them a consumer base of 8 billion (and counting) humans.
    3. All natural resources worldwide are completely accessible with no restrictions.
    4. Formerly pesky politicians who can interfere, are turned into middle managers in your machine.
    5. The population is reduced to an un-differentiated, brown mass of mediocre intelligence consumers that can be easily manipulated and ruled by the cognitive elite.
    The Uniparty, intelligentsia, media and educational establishment are totally co-opted and onboard thanks to the rewards. Manjoo and the rest of the horde like him are confident they will be in the elite.
    One problem for them: China, Japan, Russia and the other pockets of racial and national identity are only going to cooperate with the program up to the point it benefits them. They are fine with 150 million Nigerians moving to Nebraska thereby destroying the US as a rival. They are not quite as enthusiastic about them moving to their own countries..

    • Agree: fish, Prester John
    • Replies: @Prester John
  138. Blodgie says: • Website
    @Stan d Mute

    I hate to say it but all of our ancestors who died in wars for this country (especially recent wars) were fools

    If what they died for lead us to where we are, of what use was their death?

    There is a scene like this in No Country For Old Men

    The military is for macho dupes with a hero complex and a passive death wish

    I would never let my sons join any branch of the military

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  139. @Anonymous

    Why did I get piano and ballet lessons while so many others back home, possibly with more actual talent (they could scarcely have less)— because their parents lacked certain skills, money or cultural aspirations — were parked front of the TV after school?

    Let’s have a uniform childhood! Put the kids in the Young Pioneers or the Jungvolk, and train them to spy on their families!

  140. theMann says:

    Ok, let in everybody, but when the SW runs out of water, and it will, Manjoo is the first to die of thirst.

  141. @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Ogden Nash
    The Japanese (1938)

    How courteous is the Japanese;
    He always says, “Excuse it, please.”
    He climbs into his neighbor’s garden,
    And smiles, and says, “I beg your pardon”;
    He bows and grins a friendly grin,
    And calls his hungry family in;
    He grins, and bows a friendly bow;
    “So sorry, this my garden now.”

    • LOL: Buffalo Joe
  142. @MikeatMikedotMike

    When will people recognize that whatever flaws the US has or had, it still sucks less than most of the places they’re coming from?

  143. @Anonymous

    I’m pretty sure He has, if not for this, then for something else. There’s so much to choose from.

  144. istevefan says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    A few years back some Chinese bloggers were posting pictures of India that were positively nauseating. If you have the stomach, click this link to view photos of India. There are literally bodies floating in the rivers.

    I’ve never been to India so I have no idea how representative this is of that nation. Can anyone elaborate?

  145. Trevor H. says:
    @Change that Matters

    In essence, the message from Manjoobi is from all Asians to the Civilized West: You will be Assimilated.

    • Replies: @Change that Matters
  146. Trevor H. says:
    @Colin Wright

    The first is that the Times is not some fringe rag; the great grey lady had long been a pillar of the establishment

    And this is why if you permit the sort of people who run the Times to hold sway in your country, you are signing your own death warrant.

  147. Trevor H. says:
    @PIltdownMan

    This is not a face you can easily refuse.

    Good God he’s creepy. Yes, this is the sort of putrid freak that our Ruling Class is importing to tell us how to run our society.

    If people like this had even the first clue how to run a country, they’d be running their own. Instead they come here from their wrecked nations in order to wreck ours.

    And under orders from our Ruling Class, we permit it. We not only permit it, we celebrate it.

    You let these people run your mass media and you are signing your own death warrant.

  148. GSR says:

    India is a depressing place with over a billion people – that’s why many of them scramble at any chance to leave it. However, from our perspective, we need to limit the number of Indians (and Chinese and Mexicans and Muslims) allowed into our country. These are countries/cultures/regions with huge numbers of people from far different cultures, ways, values, practices.

    Better they stay there and we here.

  149. istevefan says:
    @Redneck farmer

    I find it interesting that for the entire time Britain was a world power with a huge empire, London was still an overwhelmingly English city. Not just a white or British city, but an English one. Ditto for the entire United Kingdom. Now years after the dismantling of her empire, London is maybe 50% white, and the UK is undergoing a similar change.

  150. @Moses

    “Borders are to nations what cell membranes are to cells.”

    In that case, what the anti-borders crowd are actually advocating via “immigration” is the “transfection” of America:

    “The introduction of foreign DNA into a eukaryotic cell.”

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/transfection

    ” The word is formed from transformation and infection.”

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfection

    So, the transfection of the USA is transformation and infection by a “foreign DNA.”

    Can’t get any more succinct than that.

  151. The unconditional-love DNA transfer needs to work both ways, with Americans of any skill level being able to crash any nation of their choice, inverse colonizing it without legal barriers. As in the USA, American immigrants and their relatives should receive multi welfare layers and progressive tax-code favoritism to augment low wages, enabling them to undercut the native-born citizens in their own countries’ labor markets.

    Never mind overwhelming evidence that even the closest DNA linkage to law-abiding, first-generation immigrants, fleeing bad political or economic situations in their home countries, does not guarantee that second-generation immigrants—their children sharing 50% of their DNA—won’t become disgruntled with the USA, committing mass murders.

    In recent decades, the USA has seen multiple mass murders by second-generation immigrants—mass murders admittedly motivated by the religion of the parents’ home country, animus to US culture and the US political system. See San Bernardino massacre, Orlando mass shooting and the Fort Hood mass shooting, among multiple others, for details.

    Go beyond the closest immediate family members of the original immigrants. Go beyond their children & brothers and sisters who share 50% of their DNA, letting in their grandchildren who share 25% of their DNA, their great grandchildren and first cousins who share only 15% of their DNA, taking it down to single DNA digits with the great-great grandchildren and the second cousins.

    At that level of DNA dilution, there is even less likelihood that a DNA connection with an original, pro-Western, law-abiding, assimilated immigrant is a predictor of pro-Western, liberty-loving good citizenship and adaptability to American culture—a culture which is not based on fanatical forms of religious fervor.

    It gets even trickier with the second generation of immigrants. Children often rebel against the choices of the previous generation, but are still influenced by the milieu of their upbringing, including in the areas of religious fervor, skepticism about free societies, and other hold overs from the old country. Even if the parents embrace American ways, their children can be nostalgic for the home country, idealizing it even though they’ve never been there and even though their parents fled brutal and violent conditions there.

    Particularly when things go bad for second-generation immigrants in this highly competitive and often outright mean society, they can become radicalized. As automation continues to empty the US job market of full-time jobs, the resentments are going to get worse and worse, causing even worse mayhem than we have seen thus far.

    How much more likely is it that second-generation immigrants, particularly impressionable youthes, will be influenced by anti-Western relatives, or relatives with fanatical religious views, if all of their kin come here after their parents do? American schools no longer have good civics classes to counter any anti-Western views inculcated via chain migration.

    In primary and secondary schools, kids must celebrate multi cultures, racial & ethnic clans and blood lines!

    DNA First.

    Who cares about the Republic designed by the American Founders and the culture that sprang up here, organically, over hundreds of years. Legal and illegal immigrants have sex and reproduce; this is the important thing. It helps the GDP whose gains accrue almost entirely to the top 20%.

    That is why we need for legal & illegal immigrants to be comfortably surrounded with every scrap of available DNA matching theirs, even the DNA matching theirs in single digits, on this planet.

    It is like when citizens & noncitizens reproduce in the pay-per-birth welfare state called the USA. They should not have to make economic sacrifices for the kids they choose to have. American society—from the workplaces, to the tax code, to the welfare platter—is reshaped to accommodate their choice to have kids. When making the choice to leave their home country, immigrants should not have to make any sacrifices for it, like traveling home to see their relatives.

    Their homeland should be brought to the USA via a giant, government-aided DNA transfer.

    This is the same mentality behind DACA kids (under 35), insisting that all their relatives be able to stay in the USA, rather than the DACA recipients making the effort to travel to Latin America to see family members who crossed the border illegally as adults.

    Making the sacrifice for a job, how many native-born & naturalized American citizens move all the way across their country—from the east coast all the way to the west coast—traveling a far greater distance than from Texas to Mexico to see their relatives?

  152. Corvinus says:
    @Blodgie

    “I hate to say it but all of our ancestors who died in wars for this country (especially recent wars) were fools…”

    Right, because gaining our freedom (Revolutionary War), eliminating slavery (Civil War), and protecting democracy (World War II) were foolish enterprises. (/sarcasm)

  153. @Alfa158

    As to (5) and as another contributor wrote elsewhere, the vast majority of the populace would be reduced to the level of serfdom.

  154. Spangel says:

    The NYt has asian journalists who call white people groveling gremlins, blacks who demand desegregation and affirmative action and Indians who clamor for open borders. But I do not blame the blacks, Indians or Koreans for these perspectives. I am not even sure these perspectives are representative of what those groups really think. All of these writers are just mouthpieces for their globalist Jew bosses (who do not represent all Jews). The globalist Jews who decide what respectable opinion is, basically use these colored faces as avatars for their own agenda. Are there South asian journalists who would excoriate the idea of open borders? Probably. Would the Jewish run nyt give them a platform? Never. You only are allowed to speak when you say what the establishmentJews decided you should say.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  155. That’s the funny thing, isn’t it?
    Trump pisses them off so much, they might just do it,
    simply because it’s the most anti-Trump they can think of.
    Some leader he is. Though, I guess it’s not a moron’s fault,
    if his opposition also consists of morons.
    The reason why Americans elect such morons is left as
    an exercise to the reader.

  156. istevefan says:
    @Mr. Anon

    “Accident of Geography”

    Notice how the accident of geography always seems to take place in a English-derived New World nation, (Can, USA, Oz, NZ), or in Europe itself. Why can’t these accidents of good fortune take place elsewhere Mr. Manjoo?

    PS. Rush Limbaugh started to read from Manjoo’s editorial today. This is good because in one fell swoop more people got wind of this open border scam than this blog could ever hope to reach. I hope Trump can successfully bait the democrats into openly supporting open borders. It won’t help us with a certain sector of the vote, but if it enables us to crack into the 44 percent of whites who still vote democrat, as well as a smidgen of the black vote, it will be big.

  157. Anonymous[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    That’s Corvinus-logic. The world doesn’t work that way. Calling someone a ‘hypocrite’ for favoring their own people over others is a meaningless accusation. People who say things like this are simply fools.

  158. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Spangel

    It’s true that whoever gets to use a platform has to be assumed to be overlapping partially in interests with the platform owner, but a lot of these positions are so to speak “sincere,” because they represent ancient tribalism strategies. This is the way the rest of the world works (you need to give me X because your ancestors wronged my ancestors) and our real horror is that the USA is being corrupted to work the way the rest of the world works. The tribal grievance bickering never ends, but it also never works because it induces sociopathic indifference.

  159. Anonymous[151] • Disclaimer says:
    @Moses

    Envy is the motivator. Envy begets hate. You see it all around us (Sarah Jeong). These people hate Whites, hate our history, hate our culture. Hate us. And we’re letting more into our country every day.

    Why do they hate us?

    • Replies: @Moses
  160. @Corvinus

    `protecting democracy`= betraying the Poles & handing half of Europe to Stalinist dictatorship for 46 years; a Stalinist regime which killed twice as many as the Nazis.

    Cornvinus always play this game of the excluded Middle. It would have been possible to fight these wars by other means which didn`t give the decisive upper hand to the Bolshevik subversives who seek to destroy Western Civ. We should have fought both the Soviets and the Nazis by ending Lend-Lease sooner, and have skipped Italy & France, going straight for Berlin by landing in Denmark.

    The entire approach of to WW2 was subverted by Commies in the FDR admin who sought to stretch the war out as long as possible to give the USSR as much territorial control over Europe as possible. And FDR worms were already helping the Soviets acquire atomic bomb materials in 1945. Much of this was laid out in Diana West`s `American Betrayal`

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  161. DB Cooper says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Hectoring is one thing, refusing to pay up is another. India still haven’t paid the many foreign contractors it hired for its 2010 Commonwealth games.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15279279

    According to the article,

    “According to a list compiled by foreign governments, of the 32 international contractors employed to help run the games, only two have been paid in full.
    The total debt amounts to more than $80m (£50m) and some of the companies are now in danger of folding.

    …Their experience seems to support a recent World Bank survey which found that India was one of the hardest places in the world in which to do business, coming a lowly 134th out of 183 countries.
    More damningly still, when it comes to enforcing contracts, the World Bank says that India is actually the second worst, coming only higher than East Timor.”

    Indians are difficult people.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  162. @rufus

    Good comment.

    “Spend less time worshiping cows and breeding indiscriminately…”

    If he were to have his way, the population of the USA would swell to 2 billion.

    Half the reason America is what it is today was due to the abundance of natural resources which our ingenious, hard-working people transformed into a higher civilization, founding new institutions and discovering new natural laws in the process.

    Overcrowding will make resources relatively scarce and our productivity will falter. We’ll just become another India. Moving yet again won’t solve anything. Manjoos drag their dysfunctionality along behind them.

  163. Joe862 says:
    @Buck

    That’s it. They demand white baby sitters because they can’t govern themselves to their own satisfaction. They don’t seem to realize that there aren’t enough whites to take care of all of them. It’s the sort of childish, short-sighted idiocy that goes a long way towards explaining why they can’t rule themselves.

  164. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Altai

    It’s remarkable that this comparison has never been made in the round-the-clock mass media noisemaking on this issue.

  165. @Arclight

    Arc, Mr. Manjoo should have tried Canada before the US. Everyone is much more welcoming in Canada and they have lots of open land.

  166. @istevefan

    iSteve, Our neighbor travelled through India. The only comment she made that stayed with me was…”The smell, the awful smell “

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  167. Blodgie says:
    @Corvinus

    I will agree that the Rev was a Good War and I guess the Civ was unavoidable

    But what does “Saving Democracy” even mean?

    Isn’t that what Bush said we were doing in Iraq?

    Abstractions are hard to fight wars for

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  168. DB Cooper says:
    @istevefan

    India’s filthiness is in a class of its own.

    The Economist even has an article on it last December.

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/12/08/even-by-the-standards-of-poor-countries-india-is-alarmingly-filthy

  169. anon[681] • Disclaimer says:

    Indians are the new Jews: clannish, loquacious therefore go after professions like law and politics, shameless like the Jews with their ‘chutzpah’, dishonest, highly corruptible, and LOVE open borders. Trump the idiot had better not make good on that latest tweet to give these people more H1b’s and green cards, they will wreck us the way they wrecked India.

  170. @istevefan

    A few years back some Chinese bloggers were posting pictures of India that were positively nauseating. If you have the stomach, click this link to view photos of India. There are literally bodies floating in the rivers.

    I think the new, PC spellings of the cities’ names are very unattractive, in my language if not theirs. However, those pictures seem better to fit the likes of “Mumbai”, “Kolkata”, and “Chennai” better.

  171. @Buffalo Joe

    iSteve, Our neighbor travelled through India. The only comment she made that stayed with me was…”The smell, the awful smell “

    I’ve felt the same about driving through Iowa on I-80. But at least that odor is defensible, and the results edible.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  172. @BB753

    Are they using their scrotum or just the penis to pull their loads? Do their techniques differ?

    Ask your local consulates. And return here with their answers!

  173. @M Krauthammar

    OPEN BORDERS NOW.
    THAT IS THE FUTURE.

    The prototype or the test country for this concept already exists. It’s called Brazil and it’s just a shining example that diversity does indeed equal strength.

  174. Tim says:

    The only heartening thing about this Op-ed was in reading the comments. Even the NYTs readers were, like, you’re nuts dude. This is delusional.

  175. Anonymous[378] • Disclaimer says:

  176. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    Iowa has dead human bodies rotting in the open?

    • Replies: @LostHopeless
    , @Reg Cæsar
  177. J.Ross says: • Website
    @DB Cooper

    Those people will have an easier time convincing Israel to give up land. India will finagle it so that eventually they are owed money.

  178. anon[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @CrunchybutRealistCon

    They hate being little fish in this big pond over here, but the pond back home is scummy and stagnant with dead things and brown things floating in it. So much better to bring enough kith and kin over here to create new ponds where they can be big fish lording it over the little fish.

  179. Moses says:
    @Anonymous

    Envy and feelings of inadequacy.

    It’s the same reasons people hate someone for being more successful than they are.

    Logical? No. Human nature is not logical.

  180. @M Krauthammar

    The future…….but only for the west. I’m on the last half of my life so I don’t give a flying fuck.

    But in the end the west will end up more like the places these people are fleeing.

  181. Mr. Anon says:
    @Blodgie

    Abstractions are hard to fight wars for.

    Moreover, they are stupid things to fight wars for.

  182. Mr. Anon says:
    @Corvinus

    So helping Stalin was “fighting for democracy”?

    Do you get all of your history from comic-books, or do you supplement your knowledge with what you read on the back of cereal boxes?

    You’re a dips**t.

    • Agree: William Badwhite, BB753
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  183. @istevefan

    I think that is their religious obligation or something. If a righteous Hindu gets submerged in the “holy” waters of the ganges, then he doesn’t return as a low caste hindu or something.

    OTOH, looking at what has become of that river, it is no wonder superstition rules the land.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
  184. @LostHopeless

    I read that a lot of poor people dump their dead relatives in the river in order to save the funeral costs.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  185. @CornCod1

    Americans, you need not visit the third world anymore. They will bring it with you. With snide mockery and visions of grandeur

    If you wish to see some subcontinental chutzpah, head over to this article. The comments section is full of “conservative” Indians [dot] slugging it out with “conservative” breitbartards! Arguing with them is one of the most exhaustive thing one can engage in. The aim is to frustrate and derail. They don’t tire as they are used to it. But we do

  186. @J.Ross

    He’s talking about hog farms with their constant putrid smell emanating out of hog manure lagoons. Hence the ‘defensible’ part and the ‘edible’ part 😉 . You need to chill Ross

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  187. Anonymous[529] • Disclaimer says:
    @GermanReader2

    All they are doing is encouraging attacks by the rather fearsome Ganges Shark.

    Hat Tip:

    ‘International’ shark attack statistics are exceedingly misleading and underestimated. The vast number of attacks off India alone are simply not recorded.

  188. anon[166] • Disclaimer says:

    Any possibility this is reverse psychology by the NYT? That is, trying to make their readers more amenable to border enforcement.

  189. Corvinus says:
    @CrunchybutRealistCon

    “`protecting democracy`= betraying the Poles & handing half of Europe to Stalinist dictatorship for 46 years; a Stalinist regime which killed twice as many as the Nazis.”

    Red herring. This outcome occurred after the Germans were defeated and the clean-up began. The fact remains that the United States was protecting democracy in the face of Nazi and Japanese expansionism.

    “It would have been possible to fight these wars by other means…”

    You have the ability to be retrospective. At that moment in time, they did not have that luxury.

    “which didn`t give the decisive upper hand to the Bolshevik subversives who seek to destroy Western Civ.”

    Again, a red herring.

    “We should have fought both the Soviets and the Nazis by ending Lend-Lease sooner, and have skipped Italy & France, going straight for Berlin by landing in Denmark.”

    What military intelligence are you privy to that would lend support to your hypothesis? When and how would have this landing taken place? Which countries would have been involved? What specific strategies would have had to be implemented? What potential problems had to be addressed?

    I believe a similar plan was employed. What was the end result?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden

    “The entire approach of to WW2 was subverted by Commies in the FDR admin who sought to stretch the war out as long as possible to give the USSR as much territorial control over Europe as possible. And FDR worms were already helping the Soviets acquire atomic bomb materials in 1945. Much of this was laid out in Diana West`s `American Betrayal`”

    IF her hypothesis is true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Radosh

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  190. Corvinus says:
    @Mr. Anon

    “So helping Stalin was “fighting for democracy”?”

    Call the Scarecrow. He wants his straw man back.

  191. J.Ross says: • Website
    @LostHopeless

    You’re never had an Uttar Pradeshi Biryani, have you?

  192. RonaldB says:
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus has some valid points.

    Diana West never proposed the specific tactics described by @CrunchybutRealistCon. She did point out that Lend-Lease put priority on shipping goods to the Soviets, even the the extent of starving US naval forces in the Pacific actively engaged in fighting the Japanese. She also pointed out the amazement of many military experts, including the commanding German General, that US forces didn’t continue up from Italy after a hard-fought, and very successful invasion of Italy. The forces were instead shipped to participate in D-Day, a risky invasion much further from Germany. In truth, there were claims that invading through the mountainous region of north Italy would have been very difficult.

    As for prolonging the war, West focuses on the fact that Admiral Canaris, head of German military intelligence and a member of the German resistance, tried multiple times to contact the OSS to arrange a negotiated German surrender to the US and British forces, but not to the Russian. The OSS never responded to him at all. It might be noted that Canaris convinced Franco of Spain to not ally himself with Hitler, a fact that caused Franco to offer Spanish citizenship to Canaris’ family after the war.

    West never specifically stated Hopkins was a Soviet agent, although he undeniably and consistently advocated policies mirroring the strategy of the Soviets. In other words, there was no hard evidence, such as found in the Venona Papers on other active Russian agents, such as Harry Dexter White.

    West’s central thesis was that the sheer number of Soviet agents in the US government during World War II meant that the espionage involved not only intelligence and scientific knowledge, such as the atomic bomb research, but involved the actual dictation of US war policy. Subsequent information, such as the Venona papers and papers provided by Soviet defectors, corroborate the extent of Soviet penetration of the US government. Unfortunately, West does not try to pit the hypothesis of actual Russian influence versus the fear that any action by the US hostile to Russia would cause Russia to pursue an independent peace with Nazi Germany.

    She does make a remark that Hanson Baldwin refutes the hypothesis that fear of a separate peace drove US policy, but West misinterprets Baldwin, and I have the document to prove that. So, I find West’s assertion compelling and consistent with her facts, but unfortunately, unproven.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  193. Anonymous[588] • Disclaimer says:
    @RonaldB

    Saving the USSR took priority over defeating Japan for simple geographic reasons. If the Soviet Union had collapsed (which looked likely in 1941-2) then U.S. forces in the Pacific would have found themselves fighting German units and equipment as well as Japanese.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  194. @J.Ross

    Iowa has dead human bodies rotting in the open?

    Not this time of year. They won’t start to decompose until after St Patrick’s Day.

  195. @Trevor H.

    If by “assimilated” you mean “swallowed up” or “taken over”, then you are correct.

    As Manjoobi and Co. become insistent on doing things their way, whites are learning they can’t be Asian (which should logically make them question their belief Asians can magically transform into whites). Unfortunately, most whites are slow learners, and by the time they understand the Asian “semi-permeable membrane theory of cultural admixture” it will be too late.

  196. RonaldB says:
    @Anonymous

    The Germans and Japanese were allies of convenience and had little interest in helping each other. I don’t know of anything showing that Hitler had any interest in confronting the US, or any other country, in the Pacific.

    It does bring up the point that US strategic planners may have considered the war in the East to be more urgent than the Pacific War for the long term interests of the US. The Japanese planners projected the US would overwhelm Japan with material superiority if the war lasted, say, past 1942 (“Japan’s Imperial Conspiracy”, David Bergamini, https://www.amazon.com/Japans-Imperial-Conspiracy-David-Bergamini/dp/0688019056/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1EZZRPK1AP5OK&keywords=japan%27s+imperial+conspiracy&qid=1547969700&sprefix=the+imperial+conspiracy%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-2#customerReviews) . So, it might be argued that the US planners felt it would be more costly if they confronted a Germany with the USSR defeated, even if Japan were defeated quickly.

    The big fly in that ointment was the deliberate supplying of uranium to the Soviet Union, which was unlikely to have affected the outcome of the war, but had every probability of allowing the USSR to stand off the US in the years to come.

  197. Anonymous[215] • Disclaimer says:
    @Toño Bungay

    Getting the Jews out of Germany was one thing, killing all the Jews in Europe was another matter.

    (One of the odd circumstances of the war was that the German-Jewish community mostly survived the war. It was the Ostjuden who felt the full wrath of the Nazis.)

  198. Svigor says:
    @LostHopeless

    It’s genetic. South Asians have two modes: at your feet, or at your throat. Default is at your throat. If you don’t backhand them, they’re at your throat. If you do, they’re at your feet. They have as much control over their own unfounded arrogance as blacks do.

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The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The sources of America’s immigration problems—and a possible solution
The evidence is clear — but often ignored