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At Bloody Shovel, Spandrell blogs:

Mistakes happen for a reason

… Which leads me to this article ["Mistake vs. Conflict"] by Scott Alexander. He elaborates on an idea by one of his ingroup about their being two ways of looking at things, “mistake theory” and “conflict theory”. Mistake theory claims that political opposition comes from a different understanding of issues: if people had the same amount of knowledge and proper theories to explain it, they would necessarily agree. Conflict theory states that people disagree because their interests conflict, the conflict is zero-sum so there’s no reason to agree, the only question is how to resolve the conflict.

… Mistake theory and Conflict theory are not parallel things. “Mistake theory” is just the natural, tribalist way of thinking. It assumes an ingroup, it assumes the ingroup has a codified way of thinking about things, and it interprets all disagreement as a lack of understanding of the obviously objective and universal truths of the ingroup religion. There is a reason why liberals call “ignorant” all those who disagree with them. Christians used to be rather more charitable on this front and asked for “faith”, which they also assumed was difficult to achieve.

Conflict theory is one of the great achievements of the human intellect; it is an objective, useful and predictively powerful way of analyzing human disagreement. There is a reason why Marxist historiography revolutionized the world and is still with us: Marx made a strong point that human history was based on conflict. Which is true. It is tautologically true. If you understand evolution it stands to reason that all social life is about conflict.

Or it can be about setting up systems to reduce conflict, such as having separate countries or, horrors, separate country clubs.

The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum

Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

and even in those short periods of abundance when it is not, the fight for mating supremacy is very much zero-sum, and we are all very much aware of that today. Marx focused on class struggle for political reasons, which is wrong, but his focus on conflict was a gust of fresh air for those who enjoy objective analysis.

Incidentally the early Chinese thinkers understood conflict theory very well, which is why Chinese civilization is still around, the oldest on earth.

 
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  1. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The West used to understand such things too, but it’s been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald’s Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he’s working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DeanAmine
    I've done about a million sanity checks on myself since that came out. I read CoC and I wasn't too sure about the group evolution stuff, but that didn't seem all that important. I've come away with the understanding that Jews are genetically and ethnically distinct from whites; it is a separate racial identity, and it can often be explanatory in the things they do and believe. That's something very much worth noting in my opinion. Also I think Jews have behaved like other market dominant minorities like the overseas Chinese in places like Indonesia.
    , @John Gruskos
    "Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication."

    Which tells me that Kevin MacDonald is the one man the establishment most fears.
    , @JohnnyD
    If I remember correctly, Pinker admitted to not having read MacDonald's work.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Twitter thread below: guest appearances include Richard Spencer, Luke Ford, Ed West, “Brodo Faggins,” KMac, a couple of Groypers and our own Dave Pinsen among others.

    https://twitter.com/nathancofnas/status/972432694675058688
    , @Jake
    Your starting point is off by about 4 and a half centuries.

    The Nazi movement (German national socialism) came to be because of the specifics of Continental Germanic reactions to the succeeding waves of revolution against even the memory of Christendom, which was kicked off by Saxon Martin Luther.

    You couldn't have the Nazis without the German 'romantic' youth movement of the late 19th century, which featured groups of rich young Germans walking around the countryside nude, reimagining Germanic paganism as the apex of freedom. That was the same era of Bismarck and gunpoint Germanic states union, followed by the kulturkampf/Falk Laws.

    None of that could have happened without Hegel and those he influenced profoundly, and Hegel could not have happened without both Kant (who intended to produce philosophy that could arrange and morally manage a Modern State operating with no need to reference Christ/Christendom) and Prussia's Frederick the Great, who was atheist and queer as a 3 dollar bill and whose morality was little more than might makes right. Each of that pair required the agnosticism of the Enlightenment.

    Pretty soon you are in the lap of Luther, who made Jewish definitions of what is Scripture and even how to interpret it central to his Reformation/revolution against Christendom.

    The West, understood as post-Christendom, was born lobotomized in some ways. For the West to rediscover healthy conflict theory, it must rediscover, as a guidebook, The City of God Against the Pagans.
    , @AnotherDad

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald’s Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.
     

    I haven't read this McDonald guy either. But I've heard enough to know that him saying "group evolutionary strategy" just seems to send Jewish "intellectuals" over the edge.

    Of course, the Jews--the Ashkenazim in Europe--clearly have a "group evolutionary strategy". How can they not? They've functioned as a middle man minority group with super-tight endogamy for over a thousand years. That's the strategy right there. And parts of it--like commands to stay separate from the goyim--are written down as religious injunctions in the Talmud. And they were able to maintain it against the grinding, de-tribalizing, integrative, nation-building force of Christianity for over a thousand years.

    But i've seen enough to know that Jewish intellectualism--for 99%--slams to a complete halt when the subject is Jews. They've got a story: "We're victims!" ... and they are sticking with it. At every synagogue for a thousand years the rabbi was up there preaching integration and urging that all men be judged by the content of their character. Just they evil goyim would have none of it.

    ~~
    I read the Anomaly (interesting name) and Cofnas piece. They've got the usual stuff--gentiles did it too, high IQ is liberal, Jews on the right, etc. But stripped to down to the essence they basically admit Jews are nation breakers ... but it's question of "causality". The same-old, same-old ... Jews are victims!


    But MacDonald seems to be right that Jews were disproportionately involved in radical leftist political movements in the twentieth century, and in the US Jews tend to vote Democrat. We think this can be explained by the high average IQ of Jews in combination with their being a persecuted minority, which has tended to push them toward political views that emphasize social toleration and the free movement of people. In other words, MacDonald reverses the correct order of causation: rather than Jews inviting persecution by advocating cosmopolitan policies that thwart the interests of Europeans, Jews advocated cosmopolitanism as a predictable response to persecution.
     
    I don't think this is wildly wrong, except for the causality issue. Again, haven't read the guy, but I doubt MacDonald's argument is really "Jews inviting persecution by advocating comopolitn policies", though that's certainly my issue with the Jews, and leftist anti-national and communist agitation definitely figured in attitudes toward the Jews by the Nazis. Rather i'm guessing MacDonald's argument is exactly that same one that i--and a whole bunch of other people--came to understand just by looking around and basic reasoning: that as an endogamous middle man minority group, the Jews naturally want "cosmopolitanism"--i.e. Jews want societies to be open to penetration by Jews.

    Anamoly and Cofnas are just trying to spin this only a result of persecution, whereas it seems pretty obvious to me this an "entirely predictable" desire by a endogamous/closed middle man minority group. Despite what they are saying they don't really dispute MacDonald's claim of a "group evolutionary strategy", they're just saying it's in response to gentile's persecuting them.

    After that admission, to the extent there's any argument left it would be: without persecution would the Jews still agitate for gentile societies to be open and cosmopolitan? Of course! A middle man minority can only operate in a society, if the society lets minorities operate inside it.

    It's weird to have a people who go around saying "Is it good for the Jews?", trying to deny that they've favored cosmopolitan policies precisely for their own interest. But i guess the denial--"that's nonsense, we're just smart and tolerant and it's the right thing to do"--are part of the "group evolutionary strategy", i.e. "good for the Jews", as well.

    , @AnotherDad
    There's another data point worth mentioning in unpacking motivations for Jewish anti-nationalism and immigration enthusiam.

    As Steve has pointed out in respect to arguments about black-white relations in the US, bringing in a 3rd group--Asians--can help provide clarity on (and debunk) various arguments and claims.

    And lo and behold Europe is not just Jews and the gentile majority, there's actually a 3rd group--another very strongly endogamous minority--in Europe as well. The gypsies.

    Unlike the Jews, the gypsies aren't high IQ, are pretty much the furthest thing from "open" and "tolerant" as well, so the high IQ liberalism excuse won't wash with them. According to Anomaly and Confas you'd expect them to be a bunch of knuckle dragging nationalists.

    Well how do the gypsies feel about nationalism? about free movement of peoples? Well they really don't have any intellectuals. But if we ask gypsies whether they like the EU, Schengen, free movement across borders ... i'm guessing ... they love it! Gypsies shouldn't be stuck in Romania, they should be able to go anywhere they want. Pick pockets in Paris, Rome, London, Berlin.

    Again, "free movement" and open penetrable societies is going to be the natural self-interested desire of minority groups who make a living via what i'd call 'extractive activities'. Whether high end trading, money lending, etc. like the Jews, or low end thievery like the gypsies. You want all societies to let you in or else you can't get down to business.


    However, I would guess that the gypsies, would be much less enthused about external mass immigration than the Jews. The Jews--high verbal IQ--have indeed cooked up an ideology and virtuous self-image around their cosmopolitan anti-nationalism, much like high verbal IQ gentiles. Gypsies are a bit smarter in the practical sense and would analyze this just in terms of self-interest. Let us gypsies move around--great! Bring in other low-life competition from Africa and the Middle East ... no, we don't want the competition!

    I'm guessing gypsies also lack the sort of "final solution" animus that comes across from the Brett Stephens types. The gypies just want to loot the gadjo/goyim not see their nations destroyed and their race extinguished from this earth.
    , @ben tillman

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald’s Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.
     
    It's profoundly stupid, as one would expect.
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  2. That Scott Alexander’s post is very good, I recommend everyone reads it. As it is said often about Scott’s blog posts, “it explains things better than I could.”

    Spandrell is obviously a conflict theorist.

    Most, but not all, conflict theorist are naturally drawn to Marxism. (And I mean the real thing, not the bogus “Cultural Marxism.”) I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.
     
    Do you prefer the promiscuous murdering of innocent people? Or are you a bigger fan of the suffering resulting from the Gulag? Or is it both?

    There are no strong points of Marxism, but you are a good example of the problem humanity faces. No matter how much suffering, there will always be someone like you to say "Marxism has its strong points." You are impervious to reason and experience. You are an enemy of humanity.

    No there are no strong points in favor of Marxism, but the Great Eye has his minions, right inertial?
    , @pyrrhus
    It is beyond obvious that different groups, whether ethnic, tribal, economic, or social, will have different interests. But for them to form a viable nation, they must have some important things in common. When, inevitably, that ceases to be the case, multi-ethnic nations break up...
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  3. Chinese civilization is still around because the Han are a tremendously large ethnic group capable of swallowing and integrating smaller groups, and because they have an IQ of about 105.

    The tendency for liberals to fawn over the Chinese for the putative wisdom of some aspect of their history is a curious phenomenon. Sometimes there is an obvious wistfulness for the power of the large totalitarian state, both Communism and emperors. Other times it is just virtue-signaling xenophilia for anything that isn’t the West. In other words, it is a function of the Left’s dislike for Western civilization.

    The Chinese have an ancient philosophical wisdom which is 4,000 years old to avoid conflict and live peacefully among each other? I like the Chinese, but hahhahahahha. The Chinese have had conflicts that would make the worst ones in Europe seem quaint by comparison. They were arguably a pretty violent people until fairly recently. And now their norms might be described as American, not European or Japanese.

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  4. #StatuaryRape

    “author of the infamous Dred Scott decision”

    Roger Taney statue removed from Maryland State House grounds overnight
    …August 18, 2017

    nder the cover of night, a work crew removed the statue of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, taking down the author of the infamous Dred Scott decision

    Cheers erupted from a few dozen onlookers as the hulking bronze statute of Taney was lifted from its pedestal on the State House front lawn just before 2 a.m.

    State officials have been under mounting pressure to take down the Taney statue. Republican Gov. Larry Hogan reversed his stance on the matter this week. His shift provided enough votes for the four-member State House Trust on Wednesday to approve removing the monument.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Another Republican cuck caved as soon as the breeze shifted direction.
    , @bomag

    author of the infamous Dred Scott decision
     
    There's a lot more truth in Dred Scott than current sensibilities will admit.
    , @Autochthon
    That these things are invariably done in the middle of the night without (or, occasionally, in open defiance of, as with also the change of Georgia's flag) any democratic vote or even informal consensus tells you all you need to know about the F.U.S.A., it all puts the F.U. in the F.U.S.A., in fact. Years from now when the war breaks out I bet a lot of other things will be happening in the middle of the night.
    , @Big Bill
    Agitators are going to press Taney County, Missouri to change its name.

    Taney County is where "Winter's Bone" was filmed and is also home to the Branson entertainment complex.

    The big entertainment money that has migrated to Branson in the last four decades is going to struggle between alienating their midwestern prole visitors and avoiding bad press.

    In the end they will go along with the change and the world will be healed, thank St. Soros.
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  5. OT:

    yellowboys can make homeland-reclamation happen

    https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/settling-scores-northern-rakhine.html

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    They are brown, not yellow.
    , @3g4me
    @5 Karl: "yellowboys can make homeland-reclamation happen"

    Thanks for the link. Reading that and thinking about all the problems caused by European colonialism - specifically the British - moving Indians/Pakistanis/Chinese around for whatever purpose at the time, and the inevitable conflicts that ensued. Husband then noted it was really no different than the European nobles who, at various times, invited in Jews.

    tl;dr: Bringing in another people alien in race, religion, and culture, will ALWAYS result in conflict. No matter one's initial motives or however real the limitations of the local population. Diversity + proximity = war.
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  6. But Chinese society has undergone some pretty big changes. I doubt some one from 19th century China would view modern China as the same nation.

    Or is he saying they are all the same recognizable race? Why are they allowed such but not us?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Pretty significant cultural, linguistic and even bureaucratic continuity, actually.
    , @J.Ross
    1 - The go-to truism (with few and generally insignificant exceptions) is that China does not change.
    2 - They're not white.
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  7. OT note pic attached to this comment
    http://boards.4chan dot o r g /pol/thread/164339134#p164353717
    tldr
    Google developed “consensus cracking” using bots (but probably also actual people).
    You say you support the Second Amendment.
    One guy really zeroes in on you and is really attacking you, lots of namecalling.
    You (stupidly) decide to argue.
    Suddenly he has eleven friends.
    Ideally, you get intimidated and shut up (rather than being persuaded), and normies on the fence feel nudged to the “correct” side. They are only interested in the conversion of marginals, and deal with already-convinced people by silencing, censorship, and harassment.
    Anyone who visited pol during the campaign saw this pattern and discussions of it. Our whole national current inability to have a conversation is the same pattern away from keyboard.
    What’s novel in this graphic is the point that this accidentally came out before the campaign, during GamerGate (which I will not rehash here). This graphic claims that in order to save the project (not because female game programmers were a priority for anyone) the government stepped in, directly interfered in 4chan policy. Remember suddenly not being allowed to say anything for or against that gamer thing, on a discussion board that regularly discussed extreme crime?
    Want to recivilize the discourse? Refuse to be intimidated, and spread the word about consensus cracking.

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  8. and even in those short periods of abundance when it is not, the fight for mating supremacy is very much zero-sum

    Pseudo-scientific blather. How does that even make any sense whatsoever.

    Who is getting the negative payout?

    Read More
    • Replies: @CK
    Those men who do not get to mate.
    , @Autochthon
    Actually it's a perfectly valid point. If I am having sex with a woman you are not. If she is pergnant with, nursing, and rearing my children, she is not doing so for yours. In all but the most bizarre and perverse situations, this stuff occurs in some kind of monogamous, or at least matrimonial, relationship, usually with a component of domestic teamwork. I'll make it concrete. I have a wife and son. I work and they – and only they – get to live on my dime. No one else gets to make whoopie with me or my wife. She only makes babies for me, I only put babies in her. Other people might like to bang me or her, but they lost out to the competition. That's what zero-sum is all about. A limited resource (my wife's cha-cha, womb, caregiving, etc. and my hoo-hoo dilly and earnings) is only available to one person. Everyone else loses out. It's the same with many things: land, food, water, people. If I'm occupying it, eating it, drinking it, or banging it, you ain't. In fact, very little is not a zero-sum game in this world. Information is a classic example (everyone in the world can read The Iliad at the same time, no trouble, with no one else being prevented from it). But even certain kinds of information are zero-sum (e.g., trade secrets).

    Speaking of blather: what is a "negative payout?"
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  9. Conflict theory certainly explains more than mistake theory. One reason the country is so polarized is that the left and right media only report on the things that affect their own interests. Even if you limit attention to news that is factually correct, they’re two different worlds, because of their conflicting interests. Once in a while I’ll visit sites like Salon and TPM to see what the left is up to, and it’s like reading a foreign newspaper. For example, the number one story on TPM right now is some argument between Ed Rendell and Paul Ryan that only a lefty would care about.

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  10. How about this for mistake/conflict theory?

    1. Russia has been assassinating its expatriots for a variety of reasons, a lot of them in England because that is where they like to “hang out.”

    2. The U.K. has long been the best at the spy-vs-spy business, Kim Philby and friends notwithstanding. This has been the case since, Elizabeth I or even Henry VIII.

    3. The British have let the Russians do their “wet work” on British soil because Treaty of Westphalia or other reasons. The Westphalia reason is that Russia rubbing out their traitors or wrongly connected business people is a Russian thing that is no concern to the Crown. Also because of #2, the British know what is going on even if they keep their mouths shut about it, something they are particularly good at, and knowing about murders that they don’t prosecute may give them some tradecraft or nation-state leverage when they most need it.

    4. Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.

    5. PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out “what is going down” than go on with business-as-usual-let’s-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.

    6. Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these “cold cases.” It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian “actions.” MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of “investigating” these prior crimes.

    7. Uncle Vladimir won’t know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    How much are they paying you?
    , @Lugash
    I don't buy it for a bunch of reasons.

    1) Legacy Brits have degenerated into chavs and slags. A nation of shopkeeps would be a step up. They're not going to pick a fight.

    2) MI5/MI6/Scotland Yard have had years to act, yet haven't.

    3) Polonium is as bad as some exotic binary nerve agent. That's not a bright red line.

    4) The FIRE industry likes laundering dirty Russian money. Cutting that off would be highly detrimental to the economy.

    5) The Russians likely have compromising material on anyone of importance. The nation of grooming gangs is rotten at the top.

    6) An evil Russian enemy knocking off traitors benefits the war industry and keeps the public eye of of tweens getting vaporized at an Ariana Grande concert.

    7) Putin is far more vicious and cunning than any Oxbridge dingbat.
    , @Daniel Chieh

    Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD.
     
    That story has holes all over it, but that's the biggest jump. Even if someone in FSB acted out of hand, it still doesn't mean Teh Evhal Putin.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/first-recorded-successful-novichok-synthesis-was-in-2017-by-iran-in-cooperation-with-the-opcw/
    , @Anonymous
    Theresa May is a weak and foolish leader. She will do nothing.
    , @Twodees Partain
    I wouldn't call your post a mistake/conflict theory. It's more a demonstration of a pack of lies listed one after the other in order to shill for war with Russia. BTW, it's impossible to underestimate the British. That whole stinking society is constantly showing off new lows in intelligence, morality and basic human decency.
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  11. I wrote a longish comment on how I thought Prime Minister May will get the upper hand over Mr. Putin over the Skripal attack, but it just vanished when I hit “Publish Comment” — mistakes happen for reason?

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    • Replies: @Ex Machina

    mistakes happen for reason?
     
    Yes; clearly the reason being that you totally hit the nail on the head and Mr. Putin, who controls unz.com, deleted your comment out of fear of being found out.
    , @Mr. Anon

    I wrote a longish comment on how I thought Prime Minister May will get the upper hand over Mr. Putin over the Skripal attack, but it just vanished when I hit “Publish Comment” — mistakes happen for reason?
     
    Yes. Perhaps the reason is that you are inept.

    By the way, your post is up there for all to see. Did the SVR engineer that too?
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  12. Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    >where will we feed vultures with our dead?
    Pretty sure there are multiple venues for that at Burning Man.
    , @El Dato

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?
     
    In Turkey.

    (What do I win?)
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Fun fact: That’s where Walkers Shortbread is harvested from.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Walkers_Shortbread_cookies.jpg/1200px-Walkers_Shortbread_cookies.jpg
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  13. I can imagine an equilibrium where Team 1 (Team 2) attributes Team 2′s (Team 1′s) disagreement to a misunderstanding, whereas the truth is that both teams (optimally) misunderstand and really it’s a conflict of interests.

    The `(optimally)’ part I’m not sure about. Could it be adaptive, conditional on misunderstanding things yourself, to attribute opponents’ beliefs/actions to their misunderstanding? Maybe, given that outright conflict/battle is costly. [Could it be adaptive to misunderstand in the first place...?]

    Missing from this is how the underlying conflict of interest seeps into the story each team tells itself.

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  14. @Reg Cæsar

    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

     

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?

    http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/b/b1/CatalHoyukSouthArea.JPG

    >where will we feed vultures with our dead?
    Pretty sure there are multiple venues for that at Burning Man.

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  15. @Reg Cæsar

    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

     

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?

    http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/b/b1/CatalHoyukSouthArea.JPG

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?

    In Turkey.

    (What do I win?)

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?
     
    In Turkey.

    (What do I win?)
     
    Wrong. It isn't in Turkey, it's under Turkey.

    You're awarded a Close-But-No cigar. It's not Cuban, but kind of cubic.
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  16. @Reg Cæsar

    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

     

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?

    http://static.newworldencyclopedia.org/b/b1/CatalHoyukSouthArea.JPG

    Fun fact: That’s where Walkers Shortbread is harvested from.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Seriously? Rye for Sobieski is supposedly from Turkey. People don't really think of Turkey as an agricultural source, which is pretty ironic in light of Reg's pic related.
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  17. “Marx made a strong point that human history was based on conflict.”

    But by focusing the conflict on ‘class’ proxied by wealth, we’ve spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average. The poor are disproportionately lazy and stupid, but via Marx, noble victims morally superior to the wealthy. Marx encouraged looking at people as being defined by their group characteristics, not as individuals.

    The idea that the modes of production generate ideology is kinda true, in that any economy that persists for a couple generations will have a prominent narrative that supports it, but to imply this is some kind of exogenous process is wrong, and very destructive.

    Sure, there’s always been conflict, but I don’t think Marx’s dialectic materialism is validated by this single post-diction.

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    • Replies: @Forbes

    But by focusing the conflict on ‘class’ proxied by wealth, we’ve spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average.
     
    Envy is a powerful emotion, easily triggered in many--especially those with too much time on their hands, i.e. those lacking competency and productive output.
    , @animalogic
    "But by focusing the conflict on ‘class’ proxied by wealth, we’ve spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average. The poor are disproportionately lazy and stupid, but via Marx, noble victims morally superior to the wealthy. Marx encouraged looking at people as being defined by their group characteristics, not as individuals."

    There's so much wrong with this paragraph its hard to know where to start. Who, let alone Marx equated "talent = wealth" or "wealth = talent" ? How many talented people (god knows how to define "talented") have not been wealthy ? How many wealthy have been complete drones ? (Inheritance of money does not always equal inheritance of intelligence or creativity).
    The poor are disproportionately lazy & stupid ? How do you define poor ? Are you a multi millionaire & if not, I'm guessing you will freely admit to being stupid & lazy ? (what's stupid & lazy are your gross generalizations)
    Actually, I'm going to agree with your point that Marx did encourage definition by group rather than individual characteristics. I think this can be a short coming of Marxist analysis. However, humans are as much social creatures as they are "individuals". In the context of 1000's of years of material & historical evolution humans will inevitably considered as members of social units rather than individuals (which, again, can be problematic)

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  18. Well, thanks for the link.

    Genetic survival is not zero sum as long as there’s population growth, sure, but that’s not infinite. Ultimately Malthus always wins.

    And our genetic instincts evolved when population growth wasn’t really feasible, and the fight for genetic survival was very immediate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad


    The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum
     
    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.
     
    Steve--and Spandrell responding to Steve--i think you're both (as moderns) missing the keyword "land" or "territory".

    Sure genetic survival isn't strictly "zero-sum" when the means of production moves--as it has repeatedly--to push up the Malthusian limit. And the industrial revolution (and green revolution) really blew the roof off. We've seen huge genetic expansions for most groups on the planet, and it would actually be possible for that to continue--a little bit (maybe 2x)--for everyone.

    But what is clearly zero-sum is land or territory in which to have your genetic survival.

    I don't begrudge the Mexicans knocking up and pushing out another 40 million Mexicans. My problem is their invading my territory to do it. There is less of my territory that's now ethno-culturally *mine*, for my children and descendants to inhabit. Same with African blacks. I wish they wouldn't have a population explosion and wreck their continent--for the sake of the unique wildlife, the environment, and even themselves. But kept in Africa--their part of Africa--it's their problem. But by streaming into Europe they are destroying the territory of my people, my race being there for my race to survive into the future.

    So yeah, Spandrell's right this thing is zero-sum. Not as life-for-life, but as territory upon which a people can survive.

    What we're in the grip of is this evil engineered ideology of "diversity" which doesn't mean diversity at all but is a very thinly veiled hatred of white gentiles and their right to simply have their historic nations and exist as a people. It's a genocidal turf war. The opponents--winning--have the idea of taking the last pieces of European territory away from Europeans and seeing them perish as a race.

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  19. OT (or maybe not):

    Officials in Burlington, Vermont decided a number of years ago that the city was just too peaceful and prosperous, so they decided to import Somalis.

    Among many other “benefits” of “diversity,” the young Somalis today are paying back their host community at their high school with things like a “Social Justice Union” and the school-approved flying of the Black Lives Matter flag.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/345934002

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I would love to see a known Somali stand up and assert that black lives matter, in a closed room, in front of any ten Kenyans.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Burlington, Vermont. Just reading the name makes me laugh.

    https://www.estately.com/blog/assets/hippie-map52-470x354.jpg
    , @Big Bill
    The weird thing about Black Lives Matter in Burlington is that the Somalis (68 IQ) deliberately mass migrated from Atlanta to Burlington to get away from black ghetto scum, and to go live with the nice white folks.

    And now their children are wrapping themselves in the BLM flag and claiming oppression because they can't keep up with white folks.
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  20. Is this guy hot for Goebbels or Hitler? I think the China love is really confusing to his argument.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So much is said about China that you can rebut Friedman's Flat Earth without apologizing for Brother-For-Life-Eleven, which I do not find Spandrell doing. Not really sure what Pat Buchanan being an accomplice to violation means ("and his cuck friends"), he's pretty much the one old line top level guy who wasn't. This blogger's very good and balanced, but moving from unfamiliar starting points, which is also good in a long-term or nutritional sense. I am a little confused about Western media at any level being properly hostile to the PRC, which I tend to find them either worshipping or ignoring, but maybe that's distorted by the daily twenty-four hours' hate of Nefarious Rus.
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  21. @eric
    "Marx made a strong point that human history was based on conflict."

    But by focusing the conflict on 'class' proxied by wealth, we've spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average. The poor are disproportionately lazy and stupid, but via Marx, noble victims morally superior to the wealthy. Marx encouraged looking at people as being defined by their group characteristics, not as individuals.

    The idea that the modes of production generate ideology is kinda true, in that any economy that persists for a couple generations will have a prominent narrative that supports it, but to imply this is some kind of exogenous process is wrong, and very destructive.

    Sure, there's always been conflict, but I don't think Marx's dialectic materialism is validated by this single post-diction.

    But by focusing the conflict on ‘class’ proxied by wealth, we’ve spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average.

    Envy is a powerful emotion, easily triggered in many–especially those with too much time on their hands, i.e. those lacking competency and productive output.

    Read More
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  22. Yikes

    http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/getting-jewish-washington/

    Well.. at least Israelis can say ‘we are more pro-homo than Palestinians are.’

    That might work with Progs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    How much of this is truly opposing Israeli influence and how much is it a changing of the guard? Back when I followed anti-Israel stuff very closely every day, Izzies were always making over-confident mistakes. Finkelstein was once able to avoid activists during a speaking tour because they accidentally emailed him the plans. Weiss illustrates this tendency:
    http://19453-presscdn.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/press-photo-1-195x293.jpg
    But what if AIPAC is replaced with some more sleekly packaged version of itself, like "J Street"? I think this is part of the elite reaction to the Trumpening. They will still do the things they always did, but now they will try to wear their Kangol backwards.
    , @Anonymous
    Maybe but not by much.

    I saw a poll on Israeli attitudes to gays and was surprised by how little support gays get in Israel.

    In Western Europe it was in the high 80 to 90% range for most nations, and in Israel if I remember correctly it was about 54%.

    Given how aggressive Jews have been in normalizing gays and gay marriage and their odd fixation on transexuals, the support level seemed quite low.
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  23. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Fun fact: That’s where Walkers Shortbread is harvested from.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Walkers_Shortbread_cookies.jpg/1200px-Walkers_Shortbread_cookies.jpg

    Seriously? Rye for Sobieski is supposedly from Turkey. People don’t really think of Turkey as an agricultural source, which is pretty ironic in light of Reg’s pic related.

    Read More
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  24. @AndrewR
    OT (or maybe not):

    Officials in Burlington, Vermont decided a number of years ago that the city was just too peaceful and prosperous, so they decided to import Somalis.

    Among many other "benefits" of "diversity," the young Somalis today are paying back their host community at their high school with things like a "Social Justice Union" and the school-approved flying of the Black Lives Matter flag.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/345934002

    I would love to see a known Somali stand up and assert that black lives matter, in a closed room, in front of any ten Kenyans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I would love to see a known Somali stand up and assert that black lives matter, in a closed room, in front of any ten Kenyans.
     
    Something like one in fifteen or twenty native Kenyans are Somalis. Add refugees to that.


    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44335000/gif/_44335069_kenya_ethnic416x313.gif

    Europeans were pretty clumsy in drawing borders on their own continent. They were total screwups in Africa.

    One thing Somalis might teach other Kenyans is HIV prevention:


    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m5946a3f.gif

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  25. @Lagertha
    Is this guy hot for Goebbels or Hitler? I think the China love is really confusing to his argument.

    So much is said about China that you can rebut Friedman’s Flat Earth without apologizing for Brother-For-Life-Eleven, which I do not find Spandrell doing. Not really sure what Pat Buchanan being an accomplice to violation means (“and his cuck friends”), he’s pretty much the one old line top level guy who wasn’t. This blogger’s very good and balanced, but moving from unfamiliar starting points, which is also good in a long-term or nutritional sense. I am a little confused about Western media at any level being properly hostile to the PRC, which I tend to find them either worshipping or ignoring, but maybe that’s distorted by the daily twenty-four hours’ hate of Nefarious Rus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Oh, the hostility is very, very, very much there. Nefarious Rus has currently gripped the headlines, though but I imagine it can flip at any time. I've noted before but its almost amusing how accurately 1984 matches this, and happily Eastasia or Eurasia will be the new eternal enemy for Oceania.
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  26. @Inquiring Mind
    How about this for mistake/conflict theory?

    1. Russia has been assassinating its expatriots for a variety of reasons, a lot of them in England because that is where they like to "hang out."

    2. The U.K. has long been the best at the spy-vs-spy business, Kim Philby and friends notwithstanding. This has been the case since, Elizabeth I or even Henry VIII.

    3. The British have let the Russians do their "wet work" on British soil because Treaty of Westphalia or other reasons. The Westphalia reason is that Russia rubbing out their traitors or wrongly connected business people is a Russian thing that is no concern to the Crown. Also because of #2, the British know what is going on even if they keep their mouths shut about it, something they are particularly good at, and knowing about murders that they don't prosecute may give them some tradecraft or nation-state leverage when they most need it.

    4. Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.

    5. PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out "what is going down" than go on with business-as-usual-let's-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.

    6. Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these "cold cases." It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian "actions." MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of "investigating" these prior crimes.

    7. Uncle Vladimir won't know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.

    How much are they paying you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    If Russia truly has mastery of how the public perceives this situation, would there be this much panic over my remarks? What I said was that the U.K. was cool with Russia's prior dealings with its expatriates if they were rational about it, that is, not escalating to a chemical WMD attack. I claim that the Russians wrongly perceived British tolerance as British weakness -- big, big mistake by Mr. Putin.

    My speculation really has you worried. What part do you find troubling?

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  27. I think things start off in mistake theory territory but, as positions harden, values begin to separate between the warring parties and it calcifies into zero-sum conflict. Unfortunately, that is where the U.S. is today. I am not sure the process can work in reverse.

    Read More
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  28. What about the “Bottleneck” theory whereby the top of the super volcano blows and…

    the Dude abides?

    (With his groupies).

    Read More
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  29. As many of us [k]now, it is not from secure power that bad government happens.

    I am beginning to get the impression that this guy is not familiar with the sort of thinking Charles Murray laid out in By The People.
    Then again, any ignorance of Constitutional values is irrelevant, because the Friedmanites he describes — those who wanted the flotsam of Western decadence, but who saw no need to implement the libertarian cobceots thst made it possible — are worse, and are truly hateful people. They have a parallel in the Russian liberals and the Iranian “green revolution” types, who would never enshrine free speech or distributed firearm ownership in foundational law, but who want a local Uniqlo they can take selfies in front of.

    Read More
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  30. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    I’ve done about a million sanity checks on myself since that came out. I read CoC and I wasn’t too sure about the group evolution stuff, but that didn’t seem all that important. I’ve come away with the understanding that Jews are genetically and ethnically distinct from whites; it is a separate racial identity, and it can often be explanatory in the things they do and believe. That’s something very much worth noting in my opinion. Also I think Jews have behaved like other market dominant minorities like the overseas Chinese in places like Indonesia.

    Read More
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  31. @Anon
    Yikes

    http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/getting-jewish-washington/

    Well.. at least Israelis can say 'we are more pro-homo than Palestinians are.'

    That might work with Progs.

    How much of this is truly opposing Israeli influence and how much is it a changing of the guard? Back when I followed anti-Israel stuff very closely every day, Izzies were always making over-confident mistakes. Finkelstein was once able to avoid activists during a speaking tour because they accidentally emailed him the plans. Weiss illustrates this tendency:

    But what if AIPAC is replaced with some more sleekly packaged version of itself, like “J Street”? I think this is part of the elite reaction to the Trumpening. They will still do the things they always did, but now they will try to wear their Kangol backwards.

    Read More
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  32. @J.Ross
    How much are they paying you?

    If Russia truly has mastery of how the public perceives this situation, would there be this much panic over my remarks? What I said was that the U.K. was cool with Russia’s prior dealings with its expatriates if they were rational about it, that is, not escalating to a chemical WMD attack. I claim that the Russians wrongly perceived British tolerance as British weakness — big, big mistake by Mr. Putin.

    My speculation really has you worried. What part do you find troubling?

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    From self-defeatingly propagandistic gibberish to namecalling, with a stopover at a lunatic presupposition of Russia controlling the (which?) public perception. Wow. Just wow. Literally shaking (well, my eyebrows are). What does that first sentence mean? Are you talking about in Russia? And I'm a little biased, but I'm not registering any panic. The "clueless Putin about to be unhorsed by resolute May" (wierdly symmettical to Hilldawg campaign imagery) is just a little much to believe on less than four drinks.
    But let's not get over your pseudo-reasonableness "limited hangout" concession: that UK police are totally okay with foreign governments committing murder on British soil. Good stuff.
    , @Rod1963
    Actually I find it laughable considering your ruling class makes excuses for Muslim imports raping young English orphan girls. And jails native English for criticizing these vermin and their behavior.

    Besides what's a doddering old cat lady like May going to do, give a professional hardass like Putin a stern lecture.

    The time of the Brits being a player on the international stage is long gone. Right now they're just Merkel's monkey.
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  33. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    “Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.”

    Which tells me that Kevin MacDonald is the one man the establishment most fears.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Somewhat relevant: Literally Wahhabite deep state creep John Brennan offers damage control for the McCabe firing; James Woods retorts colorfully. Brennan, a largely unknown but high ranking government functionary, has roughly ten times the Twitter followers as Woods, a freaking movie star. The discussion is further illustrated by a composite graphic showing numerous apparently unrelated twitter accounts spontaneously tweeting the exact same text -- not retweeting something they like but independently pasting it.

    http://boards.4chan dot o r g /pol/thread/164383454
    , @Tyrion 2
    Yeah, 'cos some grad student who looks like a 12 year old published a paper that 50% of Unz.com readers instantly downloaded to fume over...
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  34. I should add for any aspiring readers to the eminent Spandrell to also check out his list of best posts, but especially this one:

    Biological Leninism

    https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/biological-leninism/

    Read More
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  35. @Inquiring Mind
    How about this for mistake/conflict theory?

    1. Russia has been assassinating its expatriots for a variety of reasons, a lot of them in England because that is where they like to "hang out."

    2. The U.K. has long been the best at the spy-vs-spy business, Kim Philby and friends notwithstanding. This has been the case since, Elizabeth I or even Henry VIII.

    3. The British have let the Russians do their "wet work" on British soil because Treaty of Westphalia or other reasons. The Westphalia reason is that Russia rubbing out their traitors or wrongly connected business people is a Russian thing that is no concern to the Crown. Also because of #2, the British know what is going on even if they keep their mouths shut about it, something they are particularly good at, and knowing about murders that they don't prosecute may give them some tradecraft or nation-state leverage when they most need it.

    4. Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.

    5. PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out "what is going down" than go on with business-as-usual-let's-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.

    6. Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these "cold cases." It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian "actions." MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of "investigating" these prior crimes.

    7. Uncle Vladimir won't know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.

    I don’t buy it for a bunch of reasons.

    1) Legacy Brits have degenerated into chavs and slags. A nation of shopkeeps would be a step up. They’re not going to pick a fight.

    2) MI5/MI6/Scotland Yard have had years to act, yet haven’t.

    3) Polonium is as bad as some exotic binary nerve agent. That’s not a bright red line.

    4) The FIRE industry likes laundering dirty Russian money. Cutting that off would be highly detrimental to the economy.

    5) The Russians likely have compromising material on anyone of importance. The nation of grooming gangs is rotten at the top.

    6) An evil Russian enemy knocking off traitors benefits the war industry and keeps the public eye of of tweens getting vaporized at an Ariana Grande concert.

    7) Putin is far more vicious and cunning than any Oxbridge dingbat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    OK, you dispute each my of my points, but your response is eminently reasonable.

    Commenter J. Ross regards me as a lunatic for arguing your point #2, the British are OK with murder by foreign powers taking place on their soil. They have had years to act, yet as we agree on the fact that they haven't, or at least not until now. So at a Deep State level instead of merely police-investigation theatre, they have been OK with that?

    I think we can agree to disagree on point #3. I characterize the current "incident" as a chemical WMD attack, especially on account of the collateral first responder/civilian injuries and exposures.

    As to bright red lines, there is a historical antecedent. Organized crime factions in the U.S. if not granted license to commit murder have at least been afforded a legal "easement." The "deal" is that these murders have to be restricted to other gang members, civilian casualties have to be kept to a bare minimum, and killing police, prosecutors or judges or their family members is an absolute no go. One of the gang leaders in 1920s/30s Chicago threatened law enforcement family members and was made to understand what the "deal" was. This kind of arrangement didn't hold at times in Colombia as well as Italy and it barely, barely holds in current-day Mexico, but it has held up, more or less, in the U.S. since the 1920s at least.

    Part of how the "deal" with organized crime was enforced in the U.S. was the authorities could greatly ramp up their enforcement pressure, not only on the murders but also on the "rackets" -- gambling, human and drug trafficking, etc.. The other part is if one crime boss crossed the line, the other crime bosses who favored keeping the deal would "rub him out" (commit murder) to send a message to the authorities that they were happy with the "deal."

    As to your point #7, don't discount the capabilities of an "Oxbridge dingbat." By the way, you just called the smarts of an entire caste of foreign (to the U.S.) leaders into question, but calling British leaders foolish persons doesn't seem to have people as emotionally invested as calling Russian leaders out as foolish persons?

    I also suppose that by calling out Mr. Putin on this matter, I am now regarded as a "who is paying you" agent of the U.S. Deep State? Suppose I have been sympathetic to Mr. Putin until this point. Is there a line the Russians could cross that would "flip" other people on iSteve? Suppose Mr. Putin exploded one of his proposed new cruise missiles in front of St Paul's Cathedral to "rub out" a Russian expatriate and also send a message that PM May is his passive partner in exploitive physical relations? Would people continue to say, "Putin and the Russians are misunderstood nationalists responding to Hillary Clinton's provocation, and anyone who persists in their misunderstanding is a warmongering member of the Anglo-Israeli-Saudi Deep State?"

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  36. @inertial
    That Scott Alexander's post is very good, I recommend everyone reads it. As it is said often about Scott's blog posts, "it explains things better than I could."

    Spandrell is obviously a conflict theorist.

    Most, but not all, conflict theorist are naturally drawn to Marxism. (And I mean the real thing, not the bogus "Cultural Marxism.") I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.

    I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.

    Do you prefer the promiscuous murdering of innocent people? Or are you a bigger fan of the suffering resulting from the Gulag? Or is it both?

    There are no strong points of Marxism, but you are a good example of the problem humanity faces. No matter how much suffering, there will always be someone like you to say “Marxism has its strong points.” You are impervious to reason and experience. You are an enemy of humanity.

    No there are no strong points in favor of Marxism, but the Great Eye has his minions, right inertial?

    Read More
    • Replies: @inertial
    I expected this kneejerk.

    That's like saying that if you think that nationalists may have a point you must be a fan of Auschwitz.

    But you do touch on something important about the conflict theory (of which Marxism is a subset.) It may be more correct about how the real world works than the mistake theory. It probably is. But the problem with the conflict theory is that it tend to attract people who like conflict. Who feel that war-war is better than jaw-jaw and want to destroy the other side rather than persuade them.

    With no brakes, this could lead to horrors.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    I think he meant strong points in terms of explanatory power.
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  37. @J.Ross
    So much is said about China that you can rebut Friedman's Flat Earth without apologizing for Brother-For-Life-Eleven, which I do not find Spandrell doing. Not really sure what Pat Buchanan being an accomplice to violation means ("and his cuck friends"), he's pretty much the one old line top level guy who wasn't. This blogger's very good and balanced, but moving from unfamiliar starting points, which is also good in a long-term or nutritional sense. I am a little confused about Western media at any level being properly hostile to the PRC, which I tend to find them either worshipping or ignoring, but maybe that's distorted by the daily twenty-four hours' hate of Nefarious Rus.

    Oh, the hostility is very, very, very much there. Nefarious Rus has currently gripped the headlines, though but I imagine it can flip at any time. I’ve noted before but its almost amusing how accurately 1984 matches this, and happily Eastasia or Eurasia will be the new eternal enemy for Oceania.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I am interested in reading some and not just challenging you, do you have a recent example?
    BBC radio's The Inquiry did a piece a few months ago about China taking over the South China Sea, and I got the impression they were pretty much celebrating that (and quietly crowing about the death of American hegemony).
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  38. @Hippopotamusdrome
    #StatuaryRape

    "author of the infamous Dred Scott decision"


    Roger Taney statue removed from Maryland State House grounds overnight
    ...August 18, 2017

    nder the cover of night, a work crew removed the statue of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, taking down the author of the infamous Dred Scott decision
    ...
    Cheers erupted from a few dozen onlookers as the hulking bronze statute of Taney was lifted from its pedestal on the State House front lawn just before 2 a.m.
    ...
    State officials have been under mounting pressure to take down the Taney statue. Republican Gov. Larry Hogan reversed his stance on the matter this week. His shift provided enough votes for the four-member State House Trust on Wednesday to approve removing the monument.

     

    Another Republican cuck caved as soon as the breeze shifted direction.

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  39. @Inquiring Mind
    How about this for mistake/conflict theory?

    1. Russia has been assassinating its expatriots for a variety of reasons, a lot of them in England because that is where they like to "hang out."

    2. The U.K. has long been the best at the spy-vs-spy business, Kim Philby and friends notwithstanding. This has been the case since, Elizabeth I or even Henry VIII.

    3. The British have let the Russians do their "wet work" on British soil because Treaty of Westphalia or other reasons. The Westphalia reason is that Russia rubbing out their traitors or wrongly connected business people is a Russian thing that is no concern to the Crown. Also because of #2, the British know what is going on even if they keep their mouths shut about it, something they are particularly good at, and knowing about murders that they don't prosecute may give them some tradecraft or nation-state leverage when they most need it.

    4. Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.

    5. PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out "what is going down" than go on with business-as-usual-let's-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.

    6. Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these "cold cases." It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian "actions." MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of "investigating" these prior crimes.

    7. Uncle Vladimir won't know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.

    Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD.

    That story has holes all over it, but that’s the biggest jump. Even if someone in FSB acted out of hand, it still doesn’t mean Teh Evhal Putin.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/first-recorded-successful-novichok-synthesis-was-in-2017-by-iran-in-cooperation-with-the-opcw/

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  40. @Daniel Chieh
    Oh, the hostility is very, very, very much there. Nefarious Rus has currently gripped the headlines, though but I imagine it can flip at any time. I've noted before but its almost amusing how accurately 1984 matches this, and happily Eastasia or Eurasia will be the new eternal enemy for Oceania.

    I am interested in reading some and not just challenging you, do you have a recent example?
    BBC radio’s The Inquiry did a piece a few months ago about China taking over the South China Sea, and I got the impression they were pretty much celebrating that (and quietly crowing about the death of American hegemony).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    So I did a search for China on Google News just now:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-social-credit-barred-flights-trains-president-xi-jinping-national-development-reform-a8260941.html

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-tycoon-and-the-president-how-china-influences-eastern-europe-20180316-p4z4sb.html

    http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/2137212/will-india-turn-its-back-dalai-lama-appease-china

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-we-must-wake-up-from-our-western-dream-for-china/

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/why-russia-is-not-our-biggest-threat/news-story/2c0e7864fff610e4b908a9422e8b3f93

    Naturally, most of it is pretty much from a basis of ignorance and sometimes outright mistakes. But pretty much the norm. As another commentator on Unz noted, the terror of an alien civilization being successful is pretty overwhelming. Meh.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    You're damn right about this whole concept of celebrating China's rise -- or at least just careless fascination with it. You can see it here on Unz too.

    It gives me the same creepy feeling I got in college where almost every professor and student seemed to just love everything that wasn't American -- to the point of outright support for Soviet foreign policy, as if it was somehow any better.

    This is garbage coming from people who don't know how good they have it and are still free to speak their ignorance.
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  41. @Thea
    But Chinese society has undergone some pretty big changes. I doubt some one from 19th century China would view modern China as the same nation.

    Or is he saying they are all the same recognizable race? Why are they allowed such but not us?

    Pretty significant cultural, linguistic and even bureaucratic continuity, actually.

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    • Replies: @Thea
    Do you mean the nature of the bureaucratic structure or the same types of families are still the bureaucrats? I thought the cultural revolution wiped out most of the Confucion world view but apparently I am wrong.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    As much as from Rome to modern Italy...
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  42. @Thea
    But Chinese society has undergone some pretty big changes. I doubt some one from 19th century China would view modern China as the same nation.

    Or is he saying they are all the same recognizable race? Why are they allowed such but not us?

    1 – The go-to truism (with few and generally insignificant exceptions) is that China does not change.
    2 – They’re not white.

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  43. @J.Ross
    I would love to see a known Somali stand up and assert that black lives matter, in a closed room, in front of any ten Kenyans.

    I would love to see a known Somali stand up and assert that black lives matter, in a closed room, in front of any ten Kenyans.

    Something like one in fifteen or twenty native Kenyans are Somalis. Add refugees to that.


    Europeans were pretty clumsy in drawing borders on their own continent. They were total screwups in Africa.

    One thing Somalis might teach other Kenyans is HIV prevention:

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I should've been more specific.
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  44. I think it’s a mistake to assume all of our ethnic conflicts are rational. American Jews, for instance, support the left because of their irrational fears and prejudices, not because their biological survival is at stake.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    You are misunderstanding rational. Human desire status and power because it controls who gets what mate. You get status by having people pay attention to you, you display power by inflicting pain on others. So publicly causing others harm and getting away with it is something human beings are drawn to (you are here).
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  45. @Inquiring Mind
    How about this for mistake/conflict theory?

    1. Russia has been assassinating its expatriots for a variety of reasons, a lot of them in England because that is where they like to "hang out."

    2. The U.K. has long been the best at the spy-vs-spy business, Kim Philby and friends notwithstanding. This has been the case since, Elizabeth I or even Henry VIII.

    3. The British have let the Russians do their "wet work" on British soil because Treaty of Westphalia or other reasons. The Westphalia reason is that Russia rubbing out their traitors or wrongly connected business people is a Russian thing that is no concern to the Crown. Also because of #2, the British know what is going on even if they keep their mouths shut about it, something they are particularly good at, and knowing about murders that they don't prosecute may give them some tradecraft or nation-state leverage when they most need it.

    4. Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.

    5. PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out "what is going down" than go on with business-as-usual-let's-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.

    6. Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these "cold cases." It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian "actions." MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of "investigating" these prior crimes.

    7. Uncle Vladimir won't know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.

    Theresa May is a weak and foolish leader. She will do nothing.

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  46. @Reg Cæsar

    I would love to see a known Somali stand up and assert that black lives matter, in a closed room, in front of any ten Kenyans.
     
    Something like one in fifteen or twenty native Kenyans are Somalis. Add refugees to that.


    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44335000/gif/_44335069_kenya_ethnic416x313.gif

    Europeans were pretty clumsy in drawing borders on their own continent. They were total screwups in Africa.

    One thing Somalis might teach other Kenyans is HIV prevention:


    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/m5946a3f.gif

    I should’ve been more specific.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The comment that began this was about Burlington. Are there even ten Kenyans in Vermont, excluding the colleges?
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  47. Read More
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  48. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    If I remember correctly, Pinker admitted to not having read MacDonald’s work.

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  49. @J.Ross
    I am interested in reading some and not just challenging you, do you have a recent example?
    BBC radio's The Inquiry did a piece a few months ago about China taking over the South China Sea, and I got the impression they were pretty much celebrating that (and quietly crowing about the death of American hegemony).
    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Interesting, I will have to look deeper. My impression was that the elite saw China as a governmental model with global potential (thus Faceberg interest in Social Credit).
    , @dfordoom

    As another commentator on Unz noted, the terror of an alien civilization being successful is pretty overwhelming.
     
    In the case of the U.S. it's the fear of any rival emerging. The U.S. did put a lot of effort into destroying the British Empire when it was seen as a potential rival.

    For Americans to feel good about themselves it's not enough for America to succeed. Other nations must fail and be seen to fail. And as it's becoming increasingly obvious that the U.S. is itself in many ways a failed state the destruction of possible rivals becomes an ever more urgent priority.

    American exceptionalism demands that any competitors must be eliminated.

    It's a childish view of the world. All the toys belong to America. It's not fair if any other children have any toys at all.
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  50. Incidentally the early Chinese thinkers understood conflict theory very well, which is why Chinese civilization is still around, the oldest on earth.

    Oh Good Christ! Therefore better, therefore just shut up and accept superior China, you American mongrels without a country!

    Sorry, but I am just sick of this sh*t, with a helping of how great Marx is on top of it all no less.

    This clever “mistake vs. conflict” concept is a simple one that has occurred to any thinking person in one form or another. Using it as just another way to shove relativism down our throats is inexcusable and will be ignored.

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    • Agree: Tyrion 2
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  51. I think that’s an overly cynical reading of mistake theory by Spandrell. Mistake theory is used by people who see political problem solving as a skill, where it will become clear over time that some were better at it than others because of their patterns of thinking. Conflict theory is obviously a useful way of understanding human behaviour, but fetishising groups of people (e.g. non-elites) as the saviours of society seems less likely to lead to a country that functions well than a willingness to link dysfunction in the country to bad political decisions.

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  52. @J.Ross
    I am interested in reading some and not just challenging you, do you have a recent example?
    BBC radio's The Inquiry did a piece a few months ago about China taking over the South China Sea, and I got the impression they were pretty much celebrating that (and quietly crowing about the death of American hegemony).

    You’re damn right about this whole concept of celebrating China’s rise — or at least just careless fascination with it. You can see it here on Unz too.

    It gives me the same creepy feeling I got in college where almost every professor and student seemed to just love everything that wasn’t American — to the point of outright support for Soviet foreign policy, as if it was somehow any better.

    This is garbage coming from people who don’t know how good they have it and are still free to speak their ignorance.

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    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    You are forgetting some things.

    1) Not everyone at Unz is an American.

    2) Not everyone thinks Muh Human Rights and Muh Freedoms are essential or even desirable.

    3) Not everyone thinks the Judeo-Globo-Homo hegemony enforced by the Pentagon is worth preserving.
    , @Mr. Anon

    It gives me the same creepy feeling I got in college where almost every professor and student seemed to just love everything that wasn’t American — to the point of outright support for Soviet foreign policy, as if it was somehow any better.
     
    There's the idiot who praises,
    With enthusiastic tone,
    All centuries but this,
    And every country but his own,

    - W.S. Gilbert
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  53. @J.Ross
    I should've been more specific.

    The comment that began this was about Burlington. Are there even ten Kenyans in Vermont, excluding the colleges?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    What I meant was, while I understand that Black Lives Matter is actually about the elimination of law enforcement through emotional arguing, were we to take them literally, we might find it ironic that the Somalis of all people wanted to talk about the significance of black lives, and that those Kenyans who had lost loved ones to Somali terrorist incursions into Kenya might have something to add.
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  54. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “…Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.”

    Not to be rude, but how? How have they underestimated the British? Britain is a relatively weak nation, militarily speaking, and they lack both the international consensus and economic power (and will) to do anything of consequence to the Russians. That’s why they’ve only expelled a few diplomats and not gone to war.

    The Europeans depend upon natural gas supplied by Russia, so their response will be limited beyond words of support, and the US has no desire to cause trouble for themselves before this upcoming North Korean conference. The timing of this gas attack was brilliant.

    “PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out “what is going down” than go on with business-as-usual-let’s-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.”

    I’m sure Putin is quaking in his boots over the prospect of being punished by Theresa May. The only person the Russians truly fear is Trump, and look how the British treated the guy – basically banned him from traveling there because they were “offended” over words. “Weak, weak, weak” as Tony Blair once said.

    “Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these “cold cases.” It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian “actions.” MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of “investigating” these prior crimes.”

    I’m sure this will embarrass the Russians, but they’ll get over it.

    “Uncle Vladimir won’t know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.”

    I have a love/hate relationship with England, so it pains me to say this:

    Britain is a weak country that scares no one, especially not the Russians. The British people couldn’t even steel themselves for a visit from Donald Trump (although they have no problem parading around with the Saudis); millions signed a petition to keep him out, they publicly debated keeping him out of the country AFTER he was elected and with the opposition Jeremy Corbyn in firm support of doing so (and before Trump’s most controversial statements), their Parliament demanded that Trump reverse his non-Muslim ban travel ban, and their Commons speaker made it clear – publicly – that Trump was banned from even speaking in front of them, not that he would have done so in the first place — what a bunch of cowards…and all of that was done BEFORE the most objectionable things he said. The Russians have nothing to fear from such a weak people.

    The disrespect and weakness they’ve displayed over the last few years has won them no friends. Would the American public and political establishment ever act the same way? I doubt it. Kim Jong-un himself could come on a state visit to the US and receive at least a polite, and bipartisan, reception. There would be protests, but no national outrage – especially if people thought it was in their best interest to be respectful. That’s a sign of a strong nation. Britain is weak, divided, and spends most of its time virtue signaling and seems unable to decouple pragmatism from raw emotionalism.

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    • Agree: TTSSYF, Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Britain is weak, divided, and spends most of its time virtue signaling and seems unable to decouple pragmatism from raw emotionalism.
     
    The British have never come to terms with the loss of the Empire and the simultaneous loss of Great Power status. So they live in a fantasy world in which Britain still counts for something.

    In reality Britain is just another U.S. vassal state.

    It must be deeply humiliating to them, but it's healthier to face reality. Nobody cares what Britain says or does.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    The only person the Russians truly fear is Trump

    You are joking, right? Trump may be not be guilty of collusion, but the way he sucks up to Putin was kind of embarrassing even before the election. Trump is not very consistent, but he has been consistent on a few things - always for protectionist trade policies that favor the US, always anti-immigrant, and never critical of Putin.
    , @Whiskey
    That's all marks of a country run by women.
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  55. @El Dato

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?
     
    In Turkey.

    (What do I win?)

    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?

    In Turkey.

    (What do I win?)

    Wrong. It isn’t in Turkey, it’s under Turkey.

    You’re awarded a Close-But-No cigar. It’s not Cuban, but kind of cubic.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Wrong. It isn’t in Turkey, it’s under Turkey.
     
    Now that is a deep state.
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  56. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    JohnnyD,

    Yes, Pinker never read CoC according to his public statements. He’s blinkered by his tribalism.**

    The Cofnas paper, and all the Jews praising it, are gaslighting you – and themselves. The paper is about as substantive as a saltine.


    You can also read Cofnas and Anomaly’s article here, on Unz.

    ** That’s the most straight forward explanation for his behavior, and an example of what MacDonald describes in his books.

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  57. @John Gruskos
    "Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication."

    Which tells me that Kevin MacDonald is the one man the establishment most fears.

    Somewhat relevant: Literally Wahhabite deep state creep John Brennan offers damage control for the McCabe firing; James Woods retorts colorfully. Brennan, a largely unknown but high ranking government functionary, has roughly ten times the Twitter followers as Woods, a freaking movie star. The discussion is further illustrated by a composite graphic showing numerous apparently unrelated twitter accounts spontaneously tweeting the exact same text — not retweeting something they like but independently pasting it.

    http://boards.4chan dot o r g /pol/thread/164383454

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    In addition to the other suspicious facts surrounding the career of John Brennan, it's rather odd that he admitted to having voted in the 1980 election for Gus Hall, the perrenial communist presidential candidate who was in the pay of the Soviet Union. This was not considered disqualifying by the CIA.
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  58. @AndrewR
    OT (or maybe not):

    Officials in Burlington, Vermont decided a number of years ago that the city was just too peaceful and prosperous, so they decided to import Somalis.

    Among many other "benefits" of "diversity," the young Somalis today are paying back their host community at their high school with things like a "Social Justice Union" and the school-approved flying of the Black Lives Matter flag.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/345934002

    Burlington, Vermont. Just reading the name makes me laugh.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    What's the least hippie state? Probably Nevada, if Hunter S. Thompson's observations in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas are still pertinent.
    , @ThreeCranes
    Hello, My name is Zoomorph and I'm a hippie.

    I have to confess that I've lived most of my adult life in hippie states--by choice no less. Do I still get to come to the group therapy meetings?
    , @Anonymous
    Notice how White the hippie states are. As they get more "diversity", they will be less hippie.
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  59. @Reg Cæsar
    The comment that began this was about Burlington. Are there even ten Kenyans in Vermont, excluding the colleges?

    What I meant was, while I understand that Black Lives Matter is actually about the elimination of law enforcement through emotional arguing, were we to take them literally, we might find it ironic that the Somalis of all people wanted to talk about the significance of black lives, and that those Kenyans who had lost loved ones to Somali terrorist incursions into Kenya might have something to add.

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  60. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A while back, Sailer asked if there were any widely “*respected*” Gentile experts on Jews.

    John Murray Cuddihy?
    Possible Answer: Kevin MacDonald before writing the 3rd book in his trilogy?

    Question: Could anyone, Gentile or Jew, (esp., Gentile) say critical things about Jews and remain respected? If the answer is no, it’s rather like playing a game with a child tyrant. You have to make sure you “make a mistake” and lose the game at the end, or he’ll have your head chopped off. It’s an absurd standard.

    We’re going to conduct a clinical trial, but if it shows that the drug is no better than placebo (and has probable side-effects of brain damage), we must “accidentally” lose the results. Oops! Well, it probably works anyways, so keep taking it!

    So long as the defendant is found innocent, we an conduct the trial.

    Sociologists and historians studying Jews within the confines of “respect” are by definition not doing science, because the outcome of your studies are predetermined by the constraint of having to remain respectable.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Is there a respected expert on any ethnic or cultural group of people who is not from said group and also is critical?

    If I wrote The History of the Italians as a polemic against the Italians would that accord me respect? In any era?

    Are there books like MacDonald's written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren't immediately disregarded as racist trash?
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  61. @Daniel Chieh
    So I did a search for China on Google News just now:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-social-credit-barred-flights-trains-president-xi-jinping-national-development-reform-a8260941.html

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-tycoon-and-the-president-how-china-influences-eastern-europe-20180316-p4z4sb.html

    http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/2137212/will-india-turn-its-back-dalai-lama-appease-china

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-we-must-wake-up-from-our-western-dream-for-china/

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/why-russia-is-not-our-biggest-threat/news-story/2c0e7864fff610e4b908a9422e8b3f93

    Naturally, most of it is pretty much from a basis of ignorance and sometimes outright mistakes. But pretty much the norm. As another commentator on Unz noted, the terror of an alien civilization being successful is pretty overwhelming. Meh.

    Interesting, I will have to look deeper. My impression was that the elite saw China as a governmental model with global potential (thus Faceberg interest in Social Credit).

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm pretty sure they might have coherent thoughts at one point, but it has since evolved into a new form of "run around like frantic chickens picking random fights."
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  62. @Inquiring Mind
    If Russia truly has mastery of how the public perceives this situation, would there be this much panic over my remarks? What I said was that the U.K. was cool with Russia's prior dealings with its expatriates if they were rational about it, that is, not escalating to a chemical WMD attack. I claim that the Russians wrongly perceived British tolerance as British weakness -- big, big mistake by Mr. Putin.

    My speculation really has you worried. What part do you find troubling?

    From self-defeatingly propagandistic gibberish to namecalling, with a stopover at a lunatic presupposition of Russia controlling the (which?) public perception. Wow. Just wow. Literally shaking (well, my eyebrows are). What does that first sentence mean? Are you talking about in Russia? And I’m a little biased, but I’m not registering any panic. The “clueless Putin about to be unhorsed by resolute May” (wierdly symmettical to Hilldawg campaign imagery) is just a little much to believe on less than four drinks.
    But let’s not get over your pseudo-reasonableness “limited hangout” concession: that UK police are totally okay with foreign governments committing murder on British soil. Good stuff.

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  63. MacDonald’s books are good but old. They’re receiving panicked late attention now because the Cathedral is still pulling its hair out over the Trumpening. Off the top of my head there’s absolutely nothing controversial, taken on faith, or exotic in terms of MacDonald’s topics, evidence and scope (obviously his analysis is controversial but only for stupid reasons).

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  64. @Buzz Mohawk
    Burlington, Vermont. Just reading the name makes me laugh.

    https://www.estately.com/blog/assets/hippie-map52-470x354.jpg

    What’s the least hippie state? Probably Nevada, if Hunter S. Thompson’s observations in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas are still pertinent.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Can we nominate Singapore as the least hippie friendly country? Hippie meet cane.
    , @Lagertha
    Colorado and Nevada. However, let's get real: during Hunter's time he was bithchin at the changes: Rich people taking over the vast valley (Glenwood to Aspen) and, ruining Aspen, there are no hippie states anymore :(

    Of course, there are, But I will never tell! Look at what they did to Finland with the # one status and all! , argh!

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  65. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.
     
    Do you prefer the promiscuous murdering of innocent people? Or are you a bigger fan of the suffering resulting from the Gulag? Or is it both?

    There are no strong points of Marxism, but you are a good example of the problem humanity faces. No matter how much suffering, there will always be someone like you to say "Marxism has its strong points." You are impervious to reason and experience. You are an enemy of humanity.

    No there are no strong points in favor of Marxism, but the Great Eye has his minions, right inertial?

    I expected this kneejerk.

    That’s like saying that if you think that nationalists may have a point you must be a fan of Auschwitz.

    But you do touch on something important about the conflict theory (of which Marxism is a subset.) It may be more correct about how the real world works than the mistake theory. It probably is. But the problem with the conflict theory is that it tend to attract people who like conflict. Who feel that war-war is better than jaw-jaw and want to destroy the other side rather than persuade them.

    With no brakes, this could lead to horrors.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Might I offer this:

    Statement of the obvious: A lot of people operate under the assumptions of mistake theory and a lot under those of conflict theory and most operate under both at different times and even both at the same time.

    Uncontroversial psychological observation: Those who assume conflict theory tend to be those types of people think in those terms itself.

    Conclusion: Mistake theory and the people who think that way will create a far superior polity so conflict theorists should be chased out of political power for all internal to the polity decision making.

    Conflict theory makes for an unhappy polity.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    That’s like saying that if you think that nationalists may have a point you must be a fan of Auschwitz.
     
    No, it isn't. Nationalism does not have a track record of unparalleled suffering. You want to offer Marxism as an important subset of conflict theory, but Marxism is necessary to no theory worthy of consideration.

    Your subsequent paragraphs implicitly testify to the same. You do not need Marxism to make any point you have made, but by God you will insist on trotting out Marx as your ally. Because you think you need Marxists.

    To do so, you have to think that drinking an aqueous solution of Drano will mitigate the effects of swallowing the solid form of the same. And when the liquid form kills the credulous, you will offer the gas version of Drano as the 'solution'.

    My advice is don't ingest Drano at all. Marxism is poison, and you know I am right.
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  66. @Steve Sailer
    What's the least hippie state? Probably Nevada, if Hunter S. Thompson's observations in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas are still pertinent.

    Can we nominate Singapore as the least hippie friendly country? Hippie meet cane.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They only cane males under 50, so most hippies are safe there.
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  67. @Inquiring Mind
    If Russia truly has mastery of how the public perceives this situation, would there be this much panic over my remarks? What I said was that the U.K. was cool with Russia's prior dealings with its expatriates if they were rational about it, that is, not escalating to a chemical WMD attack. I claim that the Russians wrongly perceived British tolerance as British weakness -- big, big mistake by Mr. Putin.

    My speculation really has you worried. What part do you find troubling?

    Actually I find it laughable considering your ruling class makes excuses for Muslim imports raping young English orphan girls. And jails native English for criticizing these vermin and their behavior.

    Besides what’s a doddering old cat lady like May going to do, give a professional hardass like Putin a stern lecture.

    The time of the Brits being a player on the international stage is long gone. Right now they’re just Merkel’s monkey.

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  68. @Steve Sailer
    What's the least hippie state? Probably Nevada, if Hunter S. Thompson's observations in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas are still pertinent.

    Colorado and Nevada. However, let’s get real: during Hunter’s time he was bithchin at the changes: Rich people taking over the vast valley (Glenwood to Aspen) and, ruining Aspen, there are no hippie states anymore :(

    Of course, there are, But I will never tell! Look at what they did to Finland with the # one status and all! , argh!

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Colorado is the weed and public defecation state. I'm not sure it counts as square anymore.
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  69. @Yan Shen
    Can we nominate Singapore as the least hippie friendly country? Hippie meet cane.

    They only cane males under 50, so most hippies are safe there.

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  70. @Daniel Chieh
    So I did a search for China on Google News just now:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-social-credit-barred-flights-trains-president-xi-jinping-national-development-reform-a8260941.html

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-tycoon-and-the-president-how-china-influences-eastern-europe-20180316-p4z4sb.html

    http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/2137212/will-india-turn-its-back-dalai-lama-appease-china

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-we-must-wake-up-from-our-western-dream-for-china/

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/why-russia-is-not-our-biggest-threat/news-story/2c0e7864fff610e4b908a9422e8b3f93

    Naturally, most of it is pretty much from a basis of ignorance and sometimes outright mistakes. But pretty much the norm. As another commentator on Unz noted, the terror of an alien civilization being successful is pretty overwhelming. Meh.

    As another commentator on Unz noted, the terror of an alien civilization being successful is pretty overwhelming.

    In the case of the U.S. it’s the fear of any rival emerging. The U.S. did put a lot of effort into destroying the British Empire when it was seen as a potential rival.

    For Americans to feel good about themselves it’s not enough for America to succeed. Other nations must fail and be seen to fail. And as it’s becoming increasingly obvious that the U.S. is itself in many ways a failed state the destruction of possible rivals becomes an ever more urgent priority.

    American exceptionalism demands that any competitors must be eliminated.

    It’s a childish view of the world. All the toys belong to America. It’s not fair if any other children have any toys at all.

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  71. @Anon
    "...Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British."

    Not to be rude, but how? How have they underestimated the British? Britain is a relatively weak nation, militarily speaking, and they lack both the international consensus and economic power (and will) to do anything of consequence to the Russians. That's why they've only expelled a few diplomats and not gone to war.

    The Europeans depend upon natural gas supplied by Russia, so their response will be limited beyond words of support, and the US has no desire to cause trouble for themselves before this upcoming North Korean conference. The timing of this gas attack was brilliant.

    "PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out “what is going down” than go on with business-as-usual-let’s-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats."

    I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots over the prospect of being punished by Theresa May. The only person the Russians truly fear is Trump, and look how the British treated the guy - basically banned him from traveling there because they were "offended" over words. "Weak, weak, weak" as Tony Blair once said.

    "Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these “cold cases.” It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian “actions.” MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of “investigating” these prior crimes."

    I'm sure this will embarrass the Russians, but they'll get over it.

    "Uncle Vladimir won’t know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British."

    I have a love/hate relationship with England, so it pains me to say this:

    Britain is a weak country that scares no one, especially not the Russians. The British people couldn't even steel themselves for a visit from Donald Trump (although they have no problem parading around with the Saudis); millions signed a petition to keep him out, they publicly debated keeping him out of the country AFTER he was elected and with the opposition Jeremy Corbyn in firm support of doing so (and before Trump's most controversial statements), their Parliament demanded that Trump reverse his non-Muslim ban travel ban, and their Commons speaker made it clear - publicly - that Trump was banned from even speaking in front of them, not that he would have done so in the first place -- what a bunch of cowards...and all of that was done BEFORE the most objectionable things he said. The Russians have nothing to fear from such a weak people.

    The disrespect and weakness they've displayed over the last few years has won them no friends. Would the American public and political establishment ever act the same way? I doubt it. Kim Jong-un himself could come on a state visit to the US and receive at least a polite, and bipartisan, reception. There would be protests, but no national outrage - especially if people thought it was in their best interest to be respectful. That's a sign of a strong nation. Britain is weak, divided, and spends most of its time virtue signaling and seems unable to decouple pragmatism from raw emotionalism.

    Britain is weak, divided, and spends most of its time virtue signaling and seems unable to decouple pragmatism from raw emotionalism.

    The British have never come to terms with the loss of the Empire and the simultaneous loss of Great Power status. So they live in a fantasy world in which Britain still counts for something.

    In reality Britain is just another U.S. vassal state.

    It must be deeply humiliating to them, but it’s healthier to face reality. Nobody cares what Britain says or does.

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  72. @Buzz Mohawk
    Burlington, Vermont. Just reading the name makes me laugh.

    https://www.estately.com/blog/assets/hippie-map52-470x354.jpg

    Hello, My name is Zoomorph and I’m a hippie.

    I have to confess that I’ve lived most of my adult life in hippie states–by choice no less. Do I still get to come to the group therapy meetings?

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  73. @J.Ross
    Interesting, I will have to look deeper. My impression was that the elite saw China as a governmental model with global potential (thus Faceberg interest in Social Credit).

    I’m pretty sure they might have coherent thoughts at one point, but it has since evolved into a new form of “run around like frantic chickens picking random fights.”

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  74. About MacDonald and Pinker and the Cofnas paper and such….

    If you’re a Gentile, imagine that you recently found out that you had a Jewish forebear or two somewhere in your family ancestry. Would this change the way you think about Jews in the world today?

    In my case, no, it wouldn’t. But that’s because I’m not a Christian and basically, having been raised by agnostic, scientific parents, have no emotional attachment to any of the Abrahamic religions. To the contrary, I distrust people who do find comfort and solace in any of them. So I don’t particularly empathize with any Jew as a Jew (anymore than I do a Christian as a Christian).

    But that’s putting it too mildly. I don’t just not empathize with them, I am deeply suspicious of any adherent to any Abrahamic religion. I suspect them of using their religion as a means of extorting stuff from non-believers. So, I count myself as not particularly anti-Semitic, if by that you’re referring to a genotype, but anti-Jewish? You bet. MacDonald is correct; it’s an evolutionary strategy.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    All tribalistic religions are evolutionary strategies. And the aim is to extort non-believers but to band together with other believers and win conflicts.
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  75. @Buzz Mohawk
    You're damn right about this whole concept of celebrating China's rise -- or at least just careless fascination with it. You can see it here on Unz too.

    It gives me the same creepy feeling I got in college where almost every professor and student seemed to just love everything that wasn't American -- to the point of outright support for Soviet foreign policy, as if it was somehow any better.

    This is garbage coming from people who don't know how good they have it and are still free to speak their ignorance.

    You are forgetting some things.

    1) Not everyone at Unz is an American.

    2) Not everyone thinks Muh Human Rights and Muh Freedoms are essential or even desirable.

    3) Not everyone thinks the Judeo-Globo-Homo hegemony enforced by the Pentagon is worth preserving.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Yes, but no one cares about what foreigners have to think.
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  76. @eric
    "Marx made a strong point that human history was based on conflict."

    But by focusing the conflict on 'class' proxied by wealth, we've spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average. The poor are disproportionately lazy and stupid, but via Marx, noble victims morally superior to the wealthy. Marx encouraged looking at people as being defined by their group characteristics, not as individuals.

    The idea that the modes of production generate ideology is kinda true, in that any economy that persists for a couple generations will have a prominent narrative that supports it, but to imply this is some kind of exogenous process is wrong, and very destructive.

    Sure, there's always been conflict, but I don't think Marx's dialectic materialism is validated by this single post-diction.

    “But by focusing the conflict on ‘class’ proxied by wealth, we’ve spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average. The poor are disproportionately lazy and stupid, but via Marx, noble victims morally superior to the wealthy. Marx encouraged looking at people as being defined by their group characteristics, not as individuals.”

    There’s so much wrong with this paragraph its hard to know where to start. Who, let alone Marx equated “talent = wealth” or “wealth = talent” ? How many talented people (god knows how to define “talented”) have not been wealthy ? How many wealthy have been complete drones ? (Inheritance of money does not always equal inheritance of intelligence or creativity).
    The poor are disproportionately lazy & stupid ? How do you define poor ? Are you a multi millionaire & if not, I’m guessing you will freely admit to being stupid & lazy ? (what’s stupid & lazy are your gross generalizations)
    Actually, I’m going to agree with your point that Marx did encourage definition by group rather than individual characteristics. I think this can be a short coming of Marxist analysis. However, humans are as much social creatures as they are “individuals”. In the context of 1000′s of years of material & historical evolution humans will inevitably considered as members of social units rather than individuals (which, again, can be problematic)

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Who, let alone Marx equated “talent = wealth” or “wealth = talent” ?
     
    Reality.

    How many talented people (god knows how to define “talented”) have not been wealthy ? How many wealthy have been complete drones ?
     
    General trends are what matter, not individual exceptions.

    The poor are disproportionately lazy & stupid ? How do you define poor ?
     
    Poor is a comparative term.

    Are you a multi millionaire & if not, I’m guessing you will freely admit to being stupid & lazy ? (what’s stupid & lazy are your gross generalizations)
     
    Sure. I'm lazier and stupider then the average multi-millionarie. Some of us are willing to accept other people are better then us.

    In the context of 1000′s of years of material & historical evolution humans will inevitably considered as members of social units rather than individuals
     
    Humans are evolved organisms; the proper measure is the individual because only individuals have children.
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  77. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    Twitter thread below: guest appearances include Richard Spencer, Luke Ford, Ed West, “Brodo Faggins,” KMac, a couple of Groypers and our own Dave Pinsen among others.

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    • Replies: @advancedatheist
    Cofnas in his paper writes:

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.
     
    A bad idea doesn't become a good idea if a white man articulates and defends it. In my understanding of MacDonald's thesis, Jews played an inordinate role in the last hundred years or so in finding, rationalizing and promoting bad ideas, regardless of where these ideas came from.
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  78. @Buzz Mohawk
    Burlington, Vermont. Just reading the name makes me laugh.

    https://www.estately.com/blog/assets/hippie-map52-470x354.jpg

    Notice how White the hippie states are. As they get more “diversity”, they will be less hippie.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    hahaaa...once they get less hippy they will reach for..."shit, where is that gun daddy gave me??? - where is that bible mommy gave me???" It's coming...Democrats want to fill this country up with millions and millions of immigrants.

    3 years ago, I posted that the Zombie craze, like The Walking Dead, was foreshadowing. So, far, neither American political party wants to outlaw serious guns. Homeschoolers (never needed to be one, btw) 1, socialists and neoliberals, 0. People lie about having guns in their homes, particularly, leftists. I know, bc, I ask..and asked for 20 years, if their where guns in the home, while I left my gun-loving kids in there home! haha!

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  79. @John Gruskos
    "Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication."

    Which tells me that Kevin MacDonald is the one man the establishment most fears.

    Yeah, ‘cos some grad student who looks like a 12 year old published a paper that 50% of Unz.com readers instantly downloaded to fume over…

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  80. @anonymous
    A while back, Sailer asked if there were any widely "*respected*" Gentile experts on Jews.

    John Murray Cuddihy?
    Possible Answer: Kevin MacDonald before writing the 3rd book in his trilogy?

    Question: Could anyone, Gentile or Jew, (esp., Gentile) say critical things about Jews and remain respected? If the answer is no, it's rather like playing a game with a child tyrant. You have to make sure you "make a mistake" and lose the game at the end, or he'll have your head chopped off. It's an absurd standard.

    We're going to conduct a clinical trial, but if it shows that the drug is no better than placebo (and has probable side-effects of brain damage), we must "accidentally" lose the results. Oops! Well, it probably works anyways, so keep taking it!

    So long as the defendant is found innocent, we an conduct the trial.

    Sociologists and historians studying Jews within the confines of "respect" are by definition not doing science, because the outcome of your studies are predetermined by the constraint of having to remain respectable.

    Is there a respected expert on any ethnic or cultural group of people who is not from said group and also is critical?

    If I wrote The History of the Italians as a polemic against the Italians would that accord me respect? In any era?

    Are there books like MacDonald’s written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren’t immediately disregarded as racist trash?

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Are there books like MacDonald’s written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren’t immediately disregarded as racist trash?
     
    There was no "polemical style" in MacDonald's books.

    But no books about Whites, regardless of "polemical style", are ever disregarded as racist trash.
    , @J.Ross
    You must not have been around a university or read academic stuff lately. There is an entire field you may have seen discussed here, it is the living definition of respectability, and all it does is polemicize a particular group with less objectivity and data than MacDonald shows regarding Our Masters.
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  81. @inertial
    I expected this kneejerk.

    That's like saying that if you think that nationalists may have a point you must be a fan of Auschwitz.

    But you do touch on something important about the conflict theory (of which Marxism is a subset.) It may be more correct about how the real world works than the mistake theory. It probably is. But the problem with the conflict theory is that it tend to attract people who like conflict. Who feel that war-war is better than jaw-jaw and want to destroy the other side rather than persuade them.

    With no brakes, this could lead to horrors.

    Might I offer this:

    Statement of the obvious: A lot of people operate under the assumptions of mistake theory and a lot under those of conflict theory and most operate under both at different times and even both at the same time.

    Uncontroversial psychological observation: Those who assume conflict theory tend to be those types of people think in those terms itself.

    Conclusion: Mistake theory and the people who think that way will create a far superior polity so conflict theorists should be chased out of political power for all internal to the polity decision making.

    Conflict theory makes for an unhappy polity.

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Four common Mistake Theorist remedies for conflict resolution; re-education, termination of discussion, deferral of disputes to favored venues, and importing ringers to vote in elections and referendums. These also make for an unhappy polity.
    , @ben tillman

    Conflict theory makes for an unhappy polity.
     
    No. Conflict makes for an unhappy polity. Conflict misunderstood as mistake makes for an unhappier society than does conflict understood as conflict.
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  82. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    Your starting point is off by about 4 and a half centuries.

    The Nazi movement (German national socialism) came to be because of the specifics of Continental Germanic reactions to the succeeding waves of revolution against even the memory of Christendom, which was kicked off by Saxon Martin Luther.

    You couldn’t have the Nazis without the German ‘romantic’ youth movement of the late 19th century, which featured groups of rich young Germans walking around the countryside nude, reimagining Germanic paganism as the apex of freedom. That was the same era of Bismarck and gunpoint Germanic states union, followed by the kulturkampf/Falk Laws.

    None of that could have happened without Hegel and those he influenced profoundly, and Hegel could not have happened without both Kant (who intended to produce philosophy that could arrange and morally manage a Modern State operating with no need to reference Christ/Christendom) and Prussia’s Frederick the Great, who was atheist and queer as a 3 dollar bill and whose morality was little more than might makes right. Each of that pair required the agnosticism of the Enlightenment.

    Pretty soon you are in the lap of Luther, who made Jewish definitions of what is Scripture and even how to interpret it central to his Reformation/revolution against Christendom.

    The West, understood as post-Christendom, was born lobotomized in some ways. For the West to rediscover healthy conflict theory, it must rediscover, as a guidebook, The City of God Against the Pagans.

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  83. A lot of this reminds of Howard Bloom’s ‘The Lucifer Principle’. Agree or disagree–Bloom does a great job with conflict theory. Bloom’s analysis of Islam in connection with Conflict Theory was not only prescient (it was written in the mid-90s), it was also refreshingly blunt (again, b/c it was written prior to the current PC madness . You couldn’t read this kind of candor in a published book nowadays.

    I get the criticisms of not only Conflict Theory and of The Lucifer Principle–but in the case of Bloom’s work it was still a fun read that was very stimulating and thought provoking. It doesn’t matter whether you agree with Bloom, he’ll make you think. This book should have gotten more love when it came out–but it Jared Diamond was all the rage at that time. Needless to say–Bloom’s theories and his blunt but wry delivery didn’t exactly jibe with Diamond’s softer environmental approach to the history of civilizations (a la Guns, Germs and Steel).

    Plus, Bloom is just one crazy dude without the ‘proper academic credentials’. At 16, he’s an assistant researching the immune system for Roswell Park Cancer Institute. He goes to NYU, studies science and then quits all of it to works as the publicist for Billy Joel and Prince among almost everyone else of note in the 70s and 80s. He’s not a guy you cite as an authority if you’re at a dinner party. But if you have an open mind he’s just damn fun and interesting to read.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Howard Bloom is a lot of fun.
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  84. @El Dato

    and even in those short periods of abundance when it is not, the fight for mating supremacy is very much zero-sum
     
    Pseudo-scientific blather. How does that even make any sense whatsoever.

    Who is getting the negative payout?

    Those men who do not get to mate.

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  85. @Hippopotamusdrome
    #StatuaryRape

    "author of the infamous Dred Scott decision"


    Roger Taney statue removed from Maryland State House grounds overnight
    ...August 18, 2017

    nder the cover of night, a work crew removed the statue of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, taking down the author of the infamous Dred Scott decision
    ...
    Cheers erupted from a few dozen onlookers as the hulking bronze statute of Taney was lifted from its pedestal on the State House front lawn just before 2 a.m.
    ...
    State officials have been under mounting pressure to take down the Taney statue. Republican Gov. Larry Hogan reversed his stance on the matter this week. His shift provided enough votes for the four-member State House Trust on Wednesday to approve removing the monument.

     

    author of the infamous Dred Scott decision

    There’s a lot more truth in Dred Scott than current sensibilities will admit.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Dred Scott decision was obnoxiously anti-states right.
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  86. @Hippopotamusdrome
    #StatuaryRape

    "author of the infamous Dred Scott decision"


    Roger Taney statue removed from Maryland State House grounds overnight
    ...August 18, 2017

    nder the cover of night, a work crew removed the statue of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, taking down the author of the infamous Dred Scott decision
    ...
    Cheers erupted from a few dozen onlookers as the hulking bronze statute of Taney was lifted from its pedestal on the State House front lawn just before 2 a.m.
    ...
    State officials have been under mounting pressure to take down the Taney statue. Republican Gov. Larry Hogan reversed his stance on the matter this week. His shift provided enough votes for the four-member State House Trust on Wednesday to approve removing the monument.

     

    That these things are invariably done in the middle of the night without (or, occasionally, in open defiance of, as with also the change of Georgia’s flag) any democratic vote or even informal consensus tells you all you need to know about the F.U.S.A., it all puts the F.U. in the F.U.S.A., in fact. Years from now when the war breaks out I bet a lot of other things will be happening in the middle of the night.

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  87. @Inquiring Mind
    I wrote a longish comment on how I thought Prime Minister May will get the upper hand over Mr. Putin over the Skripal attack, but it just vanished when I hit "Publish Comment" -- mistakes happen for reason?

    mistakes happen for reason?

    Yes; clearly the reason being that you totally hit the nail on the head and Mr. Putin, who controls unz.com, deleted your comment out of fear of being found out.

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  88. @El Dato

    and even in those short periods of abundance when it is not, the fight for mating supremacy is very much zero-sum
     
    Pseudo-scientific blather. How does that even make any sense whatsoever.

    Who is getting the negative payout?

    Actually it’s a perfectly valid point. If I am having sex with a woman you are not. If she is pergnant with, nursing, and rearing my children, she is not doing so for yours. In all but the most bizarre and perverse situations, this stuff occurs in some kind of monogamous, or at least matrimonial, relationship, usually with a component of domestic teamwork. I’ll make it concrete. I have a wife and son. I work and they – and only they – get to live on my dime. No one else gets to make whoopie with me or my wife. She only makes babies for me, I only put babies in her. Other people might like to bang me or her, but they lost out to the competition. That’s what zero-sum is all about. A limited resource (my wife’s cha-cha, womb, caregiving, etc. and my hoo-hoo dilly and earnings) is only available to one person. Everyone else loses out. It’s the same with many things: land, food, water, people. If I’m occupying it, eating it, drinking it, or banging it, you ain’t. In fact, very little is not a zero-sum game in this world. Information is a classic example (everyone in the world can read The Iliad at the same time, no trouble, with no one else being prevented from it). But even certain kinds of information are zero-sum (e.g., trade secrets).

    Speaking of blather: what is a “negative payout?”

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    • Replies: @Whiskey
    But that is not the way most of the world works . Its either the African model, lots of kids with dubious paternity and no men working. Or the Muslim big man model four wives and many concubines.

    The nuclear family is rare and an abberation.
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  89. @ThreeCranes
    About MacDonald and Pinker and the Cofnas paper and such....

    If you're a Gentile, imagine that you recently found out that you had a Jewish forebear or two somewhere in your family ancestry. Would this change the way you think about Jews in the world today?

    In my case, no, it wouldn't. But that's because I'm not a Christian and basically, having been raised by agnostic, scientific parents, have no emotional attachment to any of the Abrahamic religions. To the contrary, I distrust people who do find comfort and solace in any of them. So I don't particularly empathize with any Jew as a Jew (anymore than I do a Christian as a Christian).

    But that's putting it too mildly. I don't just not empathize with them, I am deeply suspicious of any adherent to any Abrahamic religion. I suspect them of using their religion as a means of extorting stuff from non-believers. So, I count myself as not particularly anti-Semitic, if by that you're referring to a genotype, but anti-Jewish? You bet. MacDonald is correct; it's an evolutionary strategy.

    All tribalistic religions are evolutionary strategies. And the aim is to extort non-believers but to band together with other believers and win conflicts.

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  90. @animalogic
    "But by focusing the conflict on ‘class’ proxied by wealth, we’ve spend 150 years on a stupid dichotomy, and demonized talented people because they tend to be wealthier than average. The poor are disproportionately lazy and stupid, but via Marx, noble victims morally superior to the wealthy. Marx encouraged looking at people as being defined by their group characteristics, not as individuals."

    There's so much wrong with this paragraph its hard to know where to start. Who, let alone Marx equated "talent = wealth" or "wealth = talent" ? How many talented people (god knows how to define "talented") have not been wealthy ? How many wealthy have been complete drones ? (Inheritance of money does not always equal inheritance of intelligence or creativity).
    The poor are disproportionately lazy & stupid ? How do you define poor ? Are you a multi millionaire & if not, I'm guessing you will freely admit to being stupid & lazy ? (what's stupid & lazy are your gross generalizations)
    Actually, I'm going to agree with your point that Marx did encourage definition by group rather than individual characteristics. I think this can be a short coming of Marxist analysis. However, humans are as much social creatures as they are "individuals". In the context of 1000's of years of material & historical evolution humans will inevitably considered as members of social units rather than individuals (which, again, can be problematic)

    Who, let alone Marx equated “talent = wealth” or “wealth = talent” ?

    Reality.

    How many talented people (god knows how to define “talented”) have not been wealthy ? How many wealthy have been complete drones ?

    General trends are what matter, not individual exceptions.

    The poor are disproportionately lazy & stupid ? How do you define poor ?

    Poor is a comparative term.

    Are you a multi millionaire & if not, I’m guessing you will freely admit to being stupid & lazy ? (what’s stupid & lazy are your gross generalizations)

    Sure. I’m lazier and stupider then the average multi-millionarie. Some of us are willing to accept other people are better then us.

    In the context of 1000′s of years of material & historical evolution humans will inevitably considered as members of social units rather than individuals

    Humans are evolved organisms; the proper measure is the individual because only individuals have children.

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  91. @JohnnyD
    I think it's a mistake to assume all of our ethnic conflicts are rational. American Jews, for instance, support the left because of their irrational fears and prejudices, not because their biological survival is at stake.

    You are misunderstanding rational. Human desire status and power because it controls who gets what mate. You get status by having people pay attention to you, you display power by inflicting pain on others. So publicly causing others harm and getting away with it is something human beings are drawn to (you are here).

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  92. @Hippopotamusdrome
    #StatuaryRape

    "author of the infamous Dred Scott decision"


    Roger Taney statue removed from Maryland State House grounds overnight
    ...August 18, 2017

    nder the cover of night, a work crew removed the statue of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, taking down the author of the infamous Dred Scott decision
    ...
    Cheers erupted from a few dozen onlookers as the hulking bronze statute of Taney was lifted from its pedestal on the State House front lawn just before 2 a.m.
    ...
    State officials have been under mounting pressure to take down the Taney statue. Republican Gov. Larry Hogan reversed his stance on the matter this week. His shift provided enough votes for the four-member State House Trust on Wednesday to approve removing the monument.

     

    Agitators are going to press Taney County, Missouri to change its name.

    Taney County is where “Winter’s Bone” was filmed and is also home to the Branson entertainment complex.

    The big entertainment money that has migrated to Branson in the last four decades is going to struggle between alienating their midwestern prole visitors and avoiding bad press.

    In the end they will go along with the change and the world will be healed, thank St. Soros.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Was Roger Taney the first Roman Catholic Supreme Court justice? I imagine he was definitely the first Chief Justice.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    This is complete BS. You could do 1000 man on the street interviews and not more than 2 people would have ever heard of Taney.
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  93. @Karl
    OT:

    yellowboys can make homeland-reclamation happen

    https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/settling-scores-northern-rakhine.html

    They are brown, not yellow.

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  94. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “It must be deeply humiliating to them, but it’s healthier to face reality. Nobody cares what Britain says or does.”

    The British wallow in self-hate and defeatism, so they emotionally overreact to almost everything. It’s very sad. They seem to have this unhealthy fantasy that rears its head from time to time (I’ve seen this in their media repeatedly): that Americans disrespect them, don’t think they are important, and don’t like them. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Too bad they didn’t see that before pissing off Trump with their stupid s**t and probably some of the public, too.

    Go to any supermarket in the US and there is probably 100x more on the tabloids about the royals or some British celebrity than anything about the French and probably 1000x more than the Germans. We let these people get cast in our movies, television, and media (even in roles that are iconic American) – some of them are even citizens.

    They had an opportunity that even Kim Jong-un has seemingly taken advantage of and couldn’t pull it off without going apes**t. Look, I acknowledge that Trump acted inappropriately, but almost all of that was after they started trying to get him barred from their parliament and the country. Knowing Trump, his tweets after were probably just revenge. All they had to do is grit their teeth and be nice…but they couldn’t even do that. Why should we side with such a weak country over Russia? Does anyone doubt the Russians wouldn’t show respect? Alliances should be people-to-people relationships. I think we’d get along quite nicely with them.

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  95. @Lugash
    I don't buy it for a bunch of reasons.

    1) Legacy Brits have degenerated into chavs and slags. A nation of shopkeeps would be a step up. They're not going to pick a fight.

    2) MI5/MI6/Scotland Yard have had years to act, yet haven't.

    3) Polonium is as bad as some exotic binary nerve agent. That's not a bright red line.

    4) The FIRE industry likes laundering dirty Russian money. Cutting that off would be highly detrimental to the economy.

    5) The Russians likely have compromising material on anyone of importance. The nation of grooming gangs is rotten at the top.

    6) An evil Russian enemy knocking off traitors benefits the war industry and keeps the public eye of of tweens getting vaporized at an Ariana Grande concert.

    7) Putin is far more vicious and cunning than any Oxbridge dingbat.

    OK, you dispute each my of my points, but your response is eminently reasonable.

    Commenter J. Ross regards me as a lunatic for arguing your point #2, the British are OK with murder by foreign powers taking place on their soil. They have had years to act, yet as we agree on the fact that they haven’t, or at least not until now. So at a Deep State level instead of merely police-investigation theatre, they have been OK with that?

    I think we can agree to disagree on point #3. I characterize the current “incident” as a chemical WMD attack, especially on account of the collateral first responder/civilian injuries and exposures.

    As to bright red lines, there is a historical antecedent. Organized crime factions in the U.S. if not granted license to commit murder have at least been afforded a legal “easement.” The “deal” is that these murders have to be restricted to other gang members, civilian casualties have to be kept to a bare minimum, and killing police, prosecutors or judges or their family members is an absolute no go. One of the gang leaders in 1920s/30s Chicago threatened law enforcement family members and was made to understand what the “deal” was. This kind of arrangement didn’t hold at times in Colombia as well as Italy and it barely, barely holds in current-day Mexico, but it has held up, more or less, in the U.S. since the 1920s at least.

    Part of how the “deal” with organized crime was enforced in the U.S. was the authorities could greatly ramp up their enforcement pressure, not only on the murders but also on the “rackets” — gambling, human and drug trafficking, etc.. The other part is if one crime boss crossed the line, the other crime bosses who favored keeping the deal would “rub him out” (commit murder) to send a message to the authorities that they were happy with the “deal.”

    As to your point #7, don’t discount the capabilities of an “Oxbridge dingbat.” By the way, you just called the smarts of an entire caste of foreign (to the U.S.) leaders into question, but calling British leaders foolish persons doesn’t seem to have people as emotionally invested as calling Russian leaders out as foolish persons?

    I also suppose that by calling out Mr. Putin on this matter, I am now regarded as a “who is paying you” agent of the U.S. Deep State? Suppose I have been sympathetic to Mr. Putin until this point. Is there a line the Russians could cross that would “flip” other people on iSteve? Suppose Mr. Putin exploded one of his proposed new cruise missiles in front of St Paul’s Cathedral to “rub out” a Russian expatriate and also send a message that PM May is his passive partner in exploitive physical relations? Would people continue to say, “Putin and the Russians are misunderstood nationalists responding to Hillary Clinton’s provocation, and anyone who persists in their misunderstanding is a warmongering member of the Anglo-Israeli-Saudi Deep State?”

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    • Replies: @donut
    " Organized crime factions in the U.S. if not granted license to commit murder have at least been afforded a legal “easement.” The “deal” is that these murders have to be restricted to other gang members"

    I read a few years ago that the Chicago police dept. has NEVER solved a single Outfit murder .
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  96. Isn’t conflict theory just another way to say “Who, whom?”

    On the whole, I think the dichotomy between mistake theory and conflict theory is just a tad simplistic. I don’t see why we should be bound to understand all of human affairs in such rudimentary terms.

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  97. @AndrewR
    OT (or maybe not):

    Officials in Burlington, Vermont decided a number of years ago that the city was just too peaceful and prosperous, so they decided to import Somalis.

    Among many other "benefits" of "diversity," the young Somalis today are paying back their host community at their high school with things like a "Social Justice Union" and the school-approved flying of the Black Lives Matter flag.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.burlingtonfreepress.com/amp/345934002

    The weird thing about Black Lives Matter in Burlington is that the Somalis (68 IQ) deliberately mass migrated from Atlanta to Burlington to get away from black ghetto scum, and to go live with the nice white folks.

    And now their children are wrapping themselves in the BLM flag and claiming oppression because they can’t keep up with white folks.

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  98. @spandrell
    Well, thanks for the link.

    Genetic survival is not zero sum as long as there's population growth, sure, but that's not infinite. Ultimately Malthus always wins.

    And our genetic instincts evolved when population growth wasn't really feasible, and the fight for genetic survival was very immediate.

    The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum

    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

    Steve–and Spandrell responding to Steve–i think you’re both (as moderns) missing the keyword “land” or “territory”.

    Sure genetic survival isn’t strictly “zero-sum” when the means of production moves–as it has repeatedly–to push up the Malthusian limit. And the industrial revolution (and green revolution) really blew the roof off. We’ve seen huge genetic expansions for most groups on the planet, and it would actually be possible for that to continue–a little bit (maybe 2x)–for everyone.

    But what is clearly zero-sum is land or territory in which to have your genetic survival.

    I don’t begrudge the Mexicans knocking up and pushing out another 40 million Mexicans. My problem is their invading my territory to do it. There is less of my territory that’s now ethno-culturally *mine*, for my children and descendants to inhabit. Same with African blacks. I wish they wouldn’t have a population explosion and wreck their continent–for the sake of the unique wildlife, the environment, and even themselves. But kept in Africa–their part of Africa–it’s their problem. But by streaming into Europe they are destroying the territory of my people, my race being there for my race to survive into the future.

    So yeah, Spandrell’s right this thing is zero-sum. Not as life-for-life, but as territory upon which a people can survive.

    What we’re in the grip of is this evil engineered ideology of “diversity” which doesn’t mean diversity at all but is a very thinly veiled hatred of white gentiles and their right to simply have their historic nations and exist as a people. It’s a genocidal turf war. The opponents–winning–have the idea of taking the last pieces of European territory away from Europeans and seeing them perish as a race.

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    • Replies: @bomag
    Good comment.

    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.
     
    At the expense of other ecosystems and exploitable resources.
    , @pyrrhus
    Exactly. That is why mass immigration is indistinguishable from war, as Martin van Creveldt has observed. And in war, the side that ends up controlling the territory won...
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  99. @Duke of Qin
    You are forgetting some things.

    1) Not everyone at Unz is an American.

    2) Not everyone thinks Muh Human Rights and Muh Freedoms are essential or even desirable.

    3) Not everyone thinks the Judeo-Globo-Homo hegemony enforced by the Pentagon is worth preserving.

    Yes, but no one cares about what foreigners have to think.

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    • Replies: @spandrell
    Mr. Sailer here apparently cares what this foreigner (who does not live in nor has even visited the US) has to think.

    Nationalism is one thing, parochialism is another. Seeing a lot of that around here.
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  100. @Daniel Chieh
    Pretty significant cultural, linguistic and even bureaucratic continuity, actually.

    Do you mean the nature of the bureaucratic structure or the same types of families are still the bureaucrats? I thought the cultural revolution wiped out most of the Confucion world view but apparently I am wrong.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    They tried, they failed. They did succeed in destroying knowledge how the Ming made composite bows, though. Quite tragic, imo.
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  101. @Lagertha
    Colorado and Nevada. However, let's get real: during Hunter's time he was bithchin at the changes: Rich people taking over the vast valley (Glenwood to Aspen) and, ruining Aspen, there are no hippie states anymore :(

    Of course, there are, But I will never tell! Look at what they did to Finland with the # one status and all! , argh!

    Colorado is the weed and public defecation state. I’m not sure it counts as square anymore.

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  102. >The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum

    Perhaps we as humans value some other things like culture too. I care about my family but I also care deeply about my values and culture. As more migrants move into my country, I don’t think it will lead to some sort of “genocide” (at least in near future) where people sharing my genes would not be able to reproduce (One could argue that increased cost of living would affect that, but honestly it is a question of standard of living. One can still raise a family in the west outside of major cities if one is less ambitious).

    However, as a mass influx of people starts, the shared values and culture disappear and are replaced by “multiculturalism.”

    I think focussing simply on genes misses the value that humans place on culture.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Do you expect that business ethics, negative rights, free expression, distributed firearm ownership, and the presumption of innocence would recognizably exist in any sort of Asianized America (any kind of Asian you like, any timespan you want)? If so, why? I base my fear on observation of Asiatic cultures and on numerous, consistent surveys that show Asian immigrant hostility to the propositions of the proposition nation.
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  103. @Anon
    "...Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British."

    Not to be rude, but how? How have they underestimated the British? Britain is a relatively weak nation, militarily speaking, and they lack both the international consensus and economic power (and will) to do anything of consequence to the Russians. That's why they've only expelled a few diplomats and not gone to war.

    The Europeans depend upon natural gas supplied by Russia, so their response will be limited beyond words of support, and the US has no desire to cause trouble for themselves before this upcoming North Korean conference. The timing of this gas attack was brilliant.

    "PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out “what is going down” than go on with business-as-usual-let’s-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats."

    I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots over the prospect of being punished by Theresa May. The only person the Russians truly fear is Trump, and look how the British treated the guy - basically banned him from traveling there because they were "offended" over words. "Weak, weak, weak" as Tony Blair once said.

    "Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these “cold cases.” It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian “actions.” MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of “investigating” these prior crimes."

    I'm sure this will embarrass the Russians, but they'll get over it.

    "Uncle Vladimir won’t know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British."

    I have a love/hate relationship with England, so it pains me to say this:

    Britain is a weak country that scares no one, especially not the Russians. The British people couldn't even steel themselves for a visit from Donald Trump (although they have no problem parading around with the Saudis); millions signed a petition to keep him out, they publicly debated keeping him out of the country AFTER he was elected and with the opposition Jeremy Corbyn in firm support of doing so (and before Trump's most controversial statements), their Parliament demanded that Trump reverse his non-Muslim ban travel ban, and their Commons speaker made it clear - publicly - that Trump was banned from even speaking in front of them, not that he would have done so in the first place -- what a bunch of cowards...and all of that was done BEFORE the most objectionable things he said. The Russians have nothing to fear from such a weak people.

    The disrespect and weakness they've displayed over the last few years has won them no friends. Would the American public and political establishment ever act the same way? I doubt it. Kim Jong-un himself could come on a state visit to the US and receive at least a polite, and bipartisan, reception. There would be protests, but no national outrage - especially if people thought it was in their best interest to be respectful. That's a sign of a strong nation. Britain is weak, divided, and spends most of its time virtue signaling and seems unable to decouple pragmatism from raw emotionalism.

    The only person the Russians truly fear is Trump

    You are joking, right? Trump may be not be guilty of collusion, but the way he sucks up to Putin was kind of embarrassing even before the election. Trump is not very consistent, but he has been consistent on a few things – always for protectionist trade policies that favor the US, always anti-immigrant, and never critical of Putin.

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  104. @AnotherDad


    The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum
     
    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.
     
    Steve--and Spandrell responding to Steve--i think you're both (as moderns) missing the keyword "land" or "territory".

    Sure genetic survival isn't strictly "zero-sum" when the means of production moves--as it has repeatedly--to push up the Malthusian limit. And the industrial revolution (and green revolution) really blew the roof off. We've seen huge genetic expansions for most groups on the planet, and it would actually be possible for that to continue--a little bit (maybe 2x)--for everyone.

    But what is clearly zero-sum is land or territory in which to have your genetic survival.

    I don't begrudge the Mexicans knocking up and pushing out another 40 million Mexicans. My problem is their invading my territory to do it. There is less of my territory that's now ethno-culturally *mine*, for my children and descendants to inhabit. Same with African blacks. I wish they wouldn't have a population explosion and wreck their continent--for the sake of the unique wildlife, the environment, and even themselves. But kept in Africa--their part of Africa--it's their problem. But by streaming into Europe they are destroying the territory of my people, my race being there for my race to survive into the future.

    So yeah, Spandrell's right this thing is zero-sum. Not as life-for-life, but as territory upon which a people can survive.

    What we're in the grip of is this evil engineered ideology of "diversity" which doesn't mean diversity at all but is a very thinly veiled hatred of white gentiles and their right to simply have their historic nations and exist as a people. It's a genocidal turf war. The opponents--winning--have the idea of taking the last pieces of European territory away from Europeans and seeing them perish as a race.

    Good comment.

    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.

    At the expense of other ecosystems and exploitable resources.

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  105. @inertial
    That Scott Alexander's post is very good, I recommend everyone reads it. As it is said often about Scott's blog posts, "it explains things better than I could."

    Spandrell is obviously a conflict theorist.

    Most, but not all, conflict theorist are naturally drawn to Marxism. (And I mean the real thing, not the bogus "Cultural Marxism.") I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.

    It is beyond obvious that different groups, whether ethnic, tribal, economic, or social, will have different interests. But for them to form a viable nation, they must have some important things in common. When, inevitably, that ceases to be the case, multi-ethnic nations break up…

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  106. @AnotherDad


    The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum
     
    Ehhh … we have a lot more people around today than in 10,000 BC.
     
    Steve--and Spandrell responding to Steve--i think you're both (as moderns) missing the keyword "land" or "territory".

    Sure genetic survival isn't strictly "zero-sum" when the means of production moves--as it has repeatedly--to push up the Malthusian limit. And the industrial revolution (and green revolution) really blew the roof off. We've seen huge genetic expansions for most groups on the planet, and it would actually be possible for that to continue--a little bit (maybe 2x)--for everyone.

    But what is clearly zero-sum is land or territory in which to have your genetic survival.

    I don't begrudge the Mexicans knocking up and pushing out another 40 million Mexicans. My problem is their invading my territory to do it. There is less of my territory that's now ethno-culturally *mine*, for my children and descendants to inhabit. Same with African blacks. I wish they wouldn't have a population explosion and wreck their continent--for the sake of the unique wildlife, the environment, and even themselves. But kept in Africa--their part of Africa--it's their problem. But by streaming into Europe they are destroying the territory of my people, my race being there for my race to survive into the future.

    So yeah, Spandrell's right this thing is zero-sum. Not as life-for-life, but as territory upon which a people can survive.

    What we're in the grip of is this evil engineered ideology of "diversity" which doesn't mean diversity at all but is a very thinly veiled hatred of white gentiles and their right to simply have their historic nations and exist as a people. It's a genocidal turf war. The opponents--winning--have the idea of taking the last pieces of European territory away from Europeans and seeing them perish as a race.

    Exactly. That is why mass immigration is indistinguishable from war, as Martin van Creveldt has observed. And in war, the side that ends up controlling the territory won…

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  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Yikes

    http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/getting-jewish-washington/

    Well.. at least Israelis can say 'we are more pro-homo than Palestinians are.'

    That might work with Progs.

    Maybe but not by much.

    I saw a poll on Israeli attitudes to gays and was surprised by how little support gays get in Israel.

    In Western Europe it was in the high 80 to 90% range for most nations, and in Israel if I remember correctly it was about 54%.

    Given how aggressive Jews have been in normalizing gays and gay marriage and their odd fixation on transexuals, the support level seemed quite low.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Israel has politically crucial, population-exploding religious conservatives, who will stop anything that looks like a pride parade with physical force if they have to.
    I'm curious about the time issue. I remember homosexuality being forbidden and disgusting, then being misunderstood and tolerable, then dictating policy, along what felt like an exponential curve. The acceptance of gay marriage without a fight felt like a top-down, backwards fight, going quickly from a matter of winning a proper popular majority, to declaring it over and defying the opponents to solidify their own majority to undo settled law. I expect that we have all been subjected to a program from which Israel was exempt, that our numbers are all distorted or changed by this abrupt campaign, but what you see in Israel is more "normal" rather than the reverse.
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  108. ‘Course, Marx cribbed his version of “conflict theory” from Hegel. And though I despise Hegel, Hegel did it better.

    There’s something about the “dialectic” that fires intellectuals up, I won’t deny. But I have a hard time saying it’s what’s kept Marxism so popular. Even if we limit our discussion to academics and such, and leave regular people out of it.

    I rather imagine Marxism is still around for the same reason John Brennan gave for voting communist in the 70s: “signalling my unhappiness with the system, and the need for change.” Whatever else it is, Marxist thinking runs against the mainstream mindset of all non-Marxist countries. If you don’t appreciate the society in which you live, that’s one of the escape valves, so to speak.

    Which isn’t to say no one is turned on by dialectics themselves. It’s a pastime. I think the related “critical theory” is more fun for most people.

    Oh, before I go, don’t forget the Fire and Brimstone. People like reading the apocalyptic Marx infinitely more than the logic-puzzle Marx. There are plenty of other systems of thought that explain human behavior beside Marxian “conflict theory,” but they don’t make you feel like picking up a hammer and smashing stuff.

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  109. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald’s Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    I haven’t read this McDonald guy either. But I’ve heard enough to know that him saying “group evolutionary strategy” just seems to send Jewish “intellectuals” over the edge.

    Of course, the Jews–the Ashkenazim in Europe–clearly have a “group evolutionary strategy”. How can they not? They’ve functioned as a middle man minority group with super-tight endogamy for over a thousand years. That’s the strategy right there. And parts of it–like commands to stay separate from the goyim–are written down as religious injunctions in the Talmud. And they were able to maintain it against the grinding, de-tribalizing, integrative, nation-building force of Christianity for over a thousand years.

    But i’ve seen enough to know that Jewish intellectualism–for 99%–slams to a complete halt when the subject is Jews. They’ve got a story: “We’re victims!” … and they are sticking with it. At every synagogue for a thousand years the rabbi was up there preaching integration and urging that all men be judged by the content of their character. Just they evil goyim would have none of it.

    ~~
    I read the Anomaly (interesting name) and Cofnas piece. They’ve got the usual stuff–gentiles did it too, high IQ is liberal, Jews on the right, etc. But stripped to down to the essence they basically admit Jews are nation breakers … but it’s question of “causality”. The same-old, same-old … Jews are victims!

    But MacDonald seems to be right that Jews were disproportionately involved in radical leftist political movements in the twentieth century, and in the US Jews tend to vote Democrat. We think this can be explained by the high average IQ of Jews in combination with their being a persecuted minority, which has tended to push them toward political views that emphasize social toleration and the free movement of people. In other words, MacDonald reverses the correct order of causation: rather than Jews inviting persecution by advocating cosmopolitan policies that thwart the interests of Europeans, Jews advocated cosmopolitanism as a predictable response to persecution.

    I don’t think this is wildly wrong, except for the causality issue. Again, haven’t read the guy, but I doubt MacDonald’s argument is really “Jews inviting persecution by advocating comopolitn policies”, though that’s certainly my issue with the Jews, and leftist anti-national and communist agitation definitely figured in attitudes toward the Jews by the Nazis. Rather i’m guessing MacDonald’s argument is exactly that same one that i–and a whole bunch of other people–came to understand just by looking around and basic reasoning: that as an endogamous middle man minority group, the Jews naturally want “cosmopolitanism”–i.e. Jews want societies to be open to penetration by Jews.

    Anamoly and Cofnas are just trying to spin this only a result of persecution, whereas it seems pretty obvious to me this an “entirely predictable” desire by a endogamous/closed middle man minority group. Despite what they are saying they don’t really dispute MacDonald’s claim of a “group evolutionary strategy”, they’re just saying it’s in response to gentile’s persecuting them.

    After that admission, to the extent there’s any argument left it would be: without persecution would the Jews still agitate for gentile societies to be open and cosmopolitan? Of course! A middle man minority can only operate in a society, if the society lets minorities operate inside it.

    It’s weird to have a people who go around saying “Is it good for the Jews?”, trying to deny that they’ve favored cosmopolitan policies precisely for their own interest. But i guess the denial–”that’s nonsense, we’re just smart and tolerant and it’s the right thing to do”–are part of the “group evolutionary strategy”, i.e. “good for the Jews”, as well.

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  110. Does England have the codes to launch their Trident SLBMs without authorization from US military commanders?

    Peasant in the American Empire wants to know.

    Prime Minister Theresa May is a filthy, treasonous whore for the evil globalizers. As Home Secretary under Dishface Dave Cameron, Theresa May oversaw the immigration invasion of England. Blair started the mass immigration invasion in 1997, and the Tories and Theresa May kept the numbers — 300, 000 — about as high as Blair.

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  111. @ScarletNumber
    Yes, but no one cares about what foreigners have to think.

    Mr. Sailer here apparently cares what this foreigner (who does not live in nor has even visited the US) has to think.

    Nationalism is one thing, parochialism is another. Seeing a lot of that around here.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Nationalism is one thing, parochialism is another. Seeing a lot of that around here.
     
    I'd have thought that a healthy nationalism would lead to a respect for the nationalist aspirations of others.

    A lot of American nationalism isn't really nationalism at all, it's imperialism. A lot of American nationalists claim to dislike internationalism but they only dislike it when it gets in the way of American imperial ambitions.

    Naturally not all American nationalists think this way, but a disturbing number seem to.

    I suspect that it comes down to the fact that Americans have very little genuine sense of national identity, so their imperialism is a substitute for a sense of nationhood. It also explains their enthusiasm for militarism.
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  112. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “You are joking, right?”

    What part of that sounded like a joke?

    “Trump may be not be guilty of collusion, but the way he sucks up to Putin was kind of embarrassing even before the election.”

    Speak for yourself. The man spoke the truth about Russia and millions of Americans agreed with him. Acting with common sense doesn’t equate to “sucking up.” Save your moral guilt tactics for the weak minded.

    “Trump is not very consistent, but he has been consistent on a few things – always for protectionist trade policies that favor the US,”

    Which is good for us Americans and fine by me.

    “always anti-immigrant,”

    Also good for us. Take your guilt trip elsewhere.

    “and never critical of Putin.”

    So? What’s any of that to the average American? Fight your own wars. That’s what you get for disrespecting our leader.

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  113. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    There’s another data point worth mentioning in unpacking motivations for Jewish anti-nationalism and immigration enthusiam.

    As Steve has pointed out in respect to arguments about black-white relations in the US, bringing in a 3rd group–Asians–can help provide clarity on (and debunk) various arguments and claims.

    And lo and behold Europe is not just Jews and the gentile majority, there’s actually a 3rd group–another very strongly endogamous minority–in Europe as well. The gypsies.

    Unlike the Jews, the gypsies aren’t high IQ, are pretty much the furthest thing from “open” and “tolerant” as well, so the high IQ liberalism excuse won’t wash with them. According to Anomaly and Confas you’d expect them to be a bunch of knuckle dragging nationalists.

    Well how do the gypsies feel about nationalism? about free movement of peoples? Well they really don’t have any intellectuals. But if we ask gypsies whether they like the EU, Schengen, free movement across borders … i’m guessing … they love it! Gypsies shouldn’t be stuck in Romania, they should be able to go anywhere they want. Pick pockets in Paris, Rome, London, Berlin.

    Again, “free movement” and open penetrable societies is going to be the natural self-interested desire of minority groups who make a living via what i’d call ‘extractive activities’. Whether high end trading, money lending, etc. like the Jews, or low end thievery like the gypsies. You want all societies to let you in or else you can’t get down to business.

    However, I would guess that the gypsies, would be much less enthused about external mass immigration than the Jews. The Jews–high verbal IQ–have indeed cooked up an ideology and virtuous self-image around their cosmopolitan anti-nationalism, much like high verbal IQ gentiles. Gypsies are a bit smarter in the practical sense and would analyze this just in terms of self-interest. Let us gypsies move around–great! Bring in other low-life competition from Africa and the Middle East … no, we don’t want the competition!

    I’m guessing gypsies also lack the sort of “final solution” animus that comes across from the Brett Stephens types. The gypies just want to loot the gadjo/goyim not see their nations destroyed and their race extinguished from this earth.

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    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    So - that's why Isaiah Berlin - jew & defender of the nation state - really is a rare bird***!
    .
    .
    .
    ***= such a precious one...too - the Berlin-reception by the internationalist leftist mainstream - that'd make for an interesting paper (or book, of course).
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  114. @Inquiring Mind
    OK, you dispute each my of my points, but your response is eminently reasonable.

    Commenter J. Ross regards me as a lunatic for arguing your point #2, the British are OK with murder by foreign powers taking place on their soil. They have had years to act, yet as we agree on the fact that they haven't, or at least not until now. So at a Deep State level instead of merely police-investigation theatre, they have been OK with that?

    I think we can agree to disagree on point #3. I characterize the current "incident" as a chemical WMD attack, especially on account of the collateral first responder/civilian injuries and exposures.

    As to bright red lines, there is a historical antecedent. Organized crime factions in the U.S. if not granted license to commit murder have at least been afforded a legal "easement." The "deal" is that these murders have to be restricted to other gang members, civilian casualties have to be kept to a bare minimum, and killing police, prosecutors or judges or their family members is an absolute no go. One of the gang leaders in 1920s/30s Chicago threatened law enforcement family members and was made to understand what the "deal" was. This kind of arrangement didn't hold at times in Colombia as well as Italy and it barely, barely holds in current-day Mexico, but it has held up, more or less, in the U.S. since the 1920s at least.

    Part of how the "deal" with organized crime was enforced in the U.S. was the authorities could greatly ramp up their enforcement pressure, not only on the murders but also on the "rackets" -- gambling, human and drug trafficking, etc.. The other part is if one crime boss crossed the line, the other crime bosses who favored keeping the deal would "rub him out" (commit murder) to send a message to the authorities that they were happy with the "deal."

    As to your point #7, don't discount the capabilities of an "Oxbridge dingbat." By the way, you just called the smarts of an entire caste of foreign (to the U.S.) leaders into question, but calling British leaders foolish persons doesn't seem to have people as emotionally invested as calling Russian leaders out as foolish persons?

    I also suppose that by calling out Mr. Putin on this matter, I am now regarded as a "who is paying you" agent of the U.S. Deep State? Suppose I have been sympathetic to Mr. Putin until this point. Is there a line the Russians could cross that would "flip" other people on iSteve? Suppose Mr. Putin exploded one of his proposed new cruise missiles in front of St Paul's Cathedral to "rub out" a Russian expatriate and also send a message that PM May is his passive partner in exploitive physical relations? Would people continue to say, "Putin and the Russians are misunderstood nationalists responding to Hillary Clinton's provocation, and anyone who persists in their misunderstanding is a warmongering member of the Anglo-Israeli-Saudi Deep State?"

    ” Organized crime factions in the U.S. if not granted license to commit murder have at least been afforded a legal “easement.” The “deal” is that these murders have to be restricted to other gang members”

    I read a few years ago that the Chicago police dept. has NEVER solved a single Outfit murder .

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  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Brennan, a largely unknown but high ranking government functionary, has roughly ten times the Twitter followers as Woods, a freaking movie star. The discussion is further illustrated by a composite graphic showing numerous apparently unrelated twitter accounts spontaneously tweeting the exact same text — not retweeting something they like but independently pasting it.”

    It’s very easy to use bots to get a story trending. Sounds like a story Sailer might want to pick up on.

    Time line of Interest:

    1. Fake Dossier on Trump paid for by Democrats and biased MI6 spy is submitted to the FBI; the man is later alleged to have mislead the FBI about leaking information contained within it to the press in order to hurt Trump campaign.

    Relevant facts about the document’s origin and author’s bias are not mentioned to a FISA court used to obtain a ~wiretap/computer tap on Trump campaign.

    2. Texts reveal that MacCabe and at least two other FBI officers (one of whom was fired/reassigned from Muller’s investigation when his texts were leaked) met for a lengthy meeting in his office in which they discussed an “insurance policy” against Trump’s election.

    3. MacCabe alleged to have met with journalists and divulged information detrimental to Trump and helpful to Clinton.

    4. MacCabe later alleged to have mislead the FBI about meeting. He claims that it was routine and he tried to amend his statements (after totally not getting wind of the situation) AFTER THE FACT.

    5. MacCabe termination recommended by independent review submitted to AG. Attorney General fires him.

    6. MacCabe tries to divert attention by going to a friendly fake news station (CNN, of course) to imply that he has dirt on Trump when all he has are notes of their meetings – no big deal, never knew that someone could make “memos” sound nefarious.

    7. Deep State troll John Brennan who totally hasn’t been speculated as connected to that dossier goes to fake news CNN and rails that the “public will defeat” Trump, as if Trump had done something wrong (hint: he didn’t).

    8. John Brennan, a guy with an unnaturally large Twitter following, goes off on Twitter only to have what appears to be sock puppet accounts or bot accounts echo his statements in an odd fashion – not retweeting but copy/paste.

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  116. @Inquiring Mind
    I wrote a longish comment on how I thought Prime Minister May will get the upper hand over Mr. Putin over the Skripal attack, but it just vanished when I hit "Publish Comment" -- mistakes happen for reason?

    I wrote a longish comment on how I thought Prime Minister May will get the upper hand over Mr. Putin over the Skripal attack, but it just vanished when I hit “Publish Comment” — mistakes happen for reason?

    Yes. Perhaps the reason is that you are inept.

    By the way, your post is up there for all to see. Did the SVR engineer that too?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    There is some new thing where, when you hit publish, the comment disappears rather than going into reviewable/editable pre-publish status. The comment later shows up as normal.
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  117. @Anonymous
    Maybe but not by much.

    I saw a poll on Israeli attitudes to gays and was surprised by how little support gays get in Israel.

    In Western Europe it was in the high 80 to 90% range for most nations, and in Israel if I remember correctly it was about 54%.

    Given how aggressive Jews have been in normalizing gays and gay marriage and their odd fixation on transexuals, the support level seemed quite low.

    Israel has politically crucial, population-exploding religious conservatives, who will stop anything that looks like a pride parade with physical force if they have to.
    I’m curious about the time issue. I remember homosexuality being forbidden and disgusting, then being misunderstood and tolerable, then dictating policy, along what felt like an exponential curve. The acceptance of gay marriage without a fight felt like a top-down, backwards fight, going quickly from a matter of winning a proper popular majority, to declaring it over and defying the opponents to solidify their own majority to undo settled law. I expect that we have all been subjected to a program from which Israel was exempt, that our numbers are all distorted or changed by this abrupt campaign, but what you see in Israel is more “normal” rather than the reverse.

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  118. @rogue-one
    >The fight for genetical survival is ultimately zero-sum

    Perhaps we as humans value some other things like culture too. I care about my family but I also care deeply about my values and culture. As more migrants move into my country, I don't think it will lead to some sort of "genocide" (at least in near future) where people sharing my genes would not be able to reproduce (One could argue that increased cost of living would affect that, but honestly it is a question of standard of living. One can still raise a family in the west outside of major cities if one is less ambitious).

    However, as a mass influx of people starts, the shared values and culture disappear and are replaced by "multiculturalism."

    I think focussing simply on genes misses the value that humans place on culture.

    Do you expect that business ethics, negative rights, free expression, distributed firearm ownership, and the presumption of innocence would recognizably exist in any sort of Asianized America (any kind of Asian you like, any timespan you want)? If so, why? I base my fear on observation of Asiatic cultures and on numerous, consistent surveys that show Asian immigrant hostility to the propositions of the proposition nation.

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  119. @Thea
    Do you mean the nature of the bureaucratic structure or the same types of families are still the bureaucrats? I thought the cultural revolution wiped out most of the Confucion world view but apparently I am wrong.

    They tried, they failed. They did succeed in destroying knowledge how the Ming made composite bows, though. Quite tragic, imo.

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  120. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Brennan, a largely unknown but high ranking government functionary, has roughly ten times the Twitter followers as Woods, a freaking movie star. The discussion is further illustrated by a composite graphic showing numerous apparently unrelated twitter accounts spontaneously tweeting the exact same text — not retweeting something they like but independently pasting it.”

    It’s very easy to use bots to get a story trending. Political campaigns do exactly that all the time. Sounds like a story Sailer might want to pick up on.

    Time line of Interest:

    1. Fake Dossier on Trump paid for by Democrats and authored by biased MI6 spy is submitted to the FBI; the man is later alleged to have misled the FBI about leaking information contained within it to the press in order to hurt Trump campaign.

    Relevant facts about the document’s origin and author’s bias are not mentioned to a FISA court used to obtain a ~wiretap/computer tap on Trump campaign. This information was likely inappropriately withheld by the FBI. With the information, the warrant likely would not have been granted at that time.

    2. Texts reveal that MacCabe and at least two other FBI officers (one of whom was fired/reassigned from Muller’s investigation when his texts were leaked) met for a lengthy meeting in his office in which they apparently discussed an “insurance policy” against Trump’s election.

    3. MacCabe alleged to have met with journalists and divulged information detrimental to Trump and helpful to Clinton just weeks before the election.

    4. MacCabe later alleged to have mislead the FBI about meeting. He claims that it was routine and he tried to amend his statements AFTER THE FACT.

    5. FBI falsely claims that fake dossier didn’t form basis of investigation; declassified Senate committee memo proves otherwise as it directly states that it did.

    6. MacCabe termination recommended by an independent review submitted to AG. Attorney General fires him.

    7. MacCabe tries to divert attention by going to a friendly fake news station (CNN, of course) to imply that he has dirt on Trump when all he has are notes of their meetings – no big deal, never knew that someone could make “memos” sound nefarious.

    8. Deep State troll, and ex-CIA director under Obama, John Brennan who totally hasn’t been speculated as connected to that dossier goes to fake news CNN and rails that the “public will defeat” Trump, as if Trump had done something wrong (hint: he didn’t, he had no part in firing).

    9. John Brennan, a fairly obscure guy with an unnaturally large Twitter following, goes off on Twitter only to have what appears to be sock puppet or bot accounts echo his statements in an odd fashion – not retweeting but copy/paste and totally not trying to manipulate public opinion.

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  121. @J.Ross
    Somewhat relevant: Literally Wahhabite deep state creep John Brennan offers damage control for the McCabe firing; James Woods retorts colorfully. Brennan, a largely unknown but high ranking government functionary, has roughly ten times the Twitter followers as Woods, a freaking movie star. The discussion is further illustrated by a composite graphic showing numerous apparently unrelated twitter accounts spontaneously tweeting the exact same text -- not retweeting something they like but independently pasting it.

    http://boards.4chan dot o r g /pol/thread/164383454

    In addition to the other suspicious facts surrounding the career of John Brennan, it’s rather odd that he admitted to having voted in the 1980 election for Gus Hall, the perrenial communist presidential candidate who was in the pay of the Soviet Union. This was not considered disqualifying by the CIA.

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    • Agree: ben tillman
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  122. @Buzz Mohawk
    You're damn right about this whole concept of celebrating China's rise -- or at least just careless fascination with it. You can see it here on Unz too.

    It gives me the same creepy feeling I got in college where almost every professor and student seemed to just love everything that wasn't American -- to the point of outright support for Soviet foreign policy, as if it was somehow any better.

    This is garbage coming from people who don't know how good they have it and are still free to speak their ignorance.

    It gives me the same creepy feeling I got in college where almost every professor and student seemed to just love everything that wasn’t American — to the point of outright support for Soviet foreign policy, as if it was somehow any better.

    There’s the idiot who praises,
    With enthusiastic tone,
    All centuries but this,
    And every country but his own,

    - W.S. Gilbert

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  123. @AnotherDad
    There's another data point worth mentioning in unpacking motivations for Jewish anti-nationalism and immigration enthusiam.

    As Steve has pointed out in respect to arguments about black-white relations in the US, bringing in a 3rd group--Asians--can help provide clarity on (and debunk) various arguments and claims.

    And lo and behold Europe is not just Jews and the gentile majority, there's actually a 3rd group--another very strongly endogamous minority--in Europe as well. The gypsies.

    Unlike the Jews, the gypsies aren't high IQ, are pretty much the furthest thing from "open" and "tolerant" as well, so the high IQ liberalism excuse won't wash with them. According to Anomaly and Confas you'd expect them to be a bunch of knuckle dragging nationalists.

    Well how do the gypsies feel about nationalism? about free movement of peoples? Well they really don't have any intellectuals. But if we ask gypsies whether they like the EU, Schengen, free movement across borders ... i'm guessing ... they love it! Gypsies shouldn't be stuck in Romania, they should be able to go anywhere they want. Pick pockets in Paris, Rome, London, Berlin.

    Again, "free movement" and open penetrable societies is going to be the natural self-interested desire of minority groups who make a living via what i'd call 'extractive activities'. Whether high end trading, money lending, etc. like the Jews, or low end thievery like the gypsies. You want all societies to let you in or else you can't get down to business.


    However, I would guess that the gypsies, would be much less enthused about external mass immigration than the Jews. The Jews--high verbal IQ--have indeed cooked up an ideology and virtuous self-image around their cosmopolitan anti-nationalism, much like high verbal IQ gentiles. Gypsies are a bit smarter in the practical sense and would analyze this just in terms of self-interest. Let us gypsies move around--great! Bring in other low-life competition from Africa and the Middle East ... no, we don't want the competition!

    I'm guessing gypsies also lack the sort of "final solution" animus that comes across from the Brett Stephens types. The gypies just want to loot the gadjo/goyim not see their nations destroyed and their race extinguished from this earth.

    So – that’s why Isaiah Berlin – jew & defender of the nation state – really is a rare bird***!
    .
    .
    .
    ***= such a precious one…too – the Berlin-reception by the internationalist leftist mainstream – that’d make for an interesting paper (or book, of course).

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  124. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Twitter thread below: guest appearances include Richard Spencer, Luke Ford, Ed West, “Brodo Faggins,” KMac, a couple of Groypers and our own Dave Pinsen among others.

    https://twitter.com/nathancofnas/status/972432694675058688

    Cofnas in his paper writes:

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.

    A bad idea doesn’t become a good idea if a white man articulates and defends it. In my understanding of MacDonald’s thesis, Jews played an inordinate role in the last hundred years or so in finding, rationalizing and promoting bad ideas, regardless of where these ideas came from.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.
     
    1. It's a book about the organized Jewish community, not an encyclopedia.

    2. Sure -- some gentiles had crazy ideas, but they went nowhere. This idiotic criticism PROVES THE POINT. Ideas destructive of society cannot catch on or take root unless a cohesive group works in concert to overcome society's defenses against such destructive ideas.

    , @J.Ross
    So in other words Cofnas appeals to the recanonized "good guys" misrepresented by Frankfurters as in agreement with modern bomb throwers. There is very little in Greek philosophy that really relates to nineteenth century onward Jewish intellectual subversion, but it is true that France really has been a problem. That complicates rather than substantiating a "Western" legacy, like if a cultural tendency claimed to be pan-Asian occurs only in Japan.
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  125. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    I am not the biggest fun of Marxism but it does have its strong points.
     
    Do you prefer the promiscuous murdering of innocent people? Or are you a bigger fan of the suffering resulting from the Gulag? Or is it both?

    There are no strong points of Marxism, but you are a good example of the problem humanity faces. No matter how much suffering, there will always be someone like you to say "Marxism has its strong points." You are impervious to reason and experience. You are an enemy of humanity.

    No there are no strong points in favor of Marxism, but the Great Eye has his minions, right inertial?

    I think he meant strong points in terms of explanatory power.

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  126. @Daniel Chieh
    Pretty significant cultural, linguistic and even bureaucratic continuity, actually.

    As much as from Rome to modern Italy…

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  127. @Big Bill
    Agitators are going to press Taney County, Missouri to change its name.

    Taney County is where "Winter's Bone" was filmed and is also home to the Branson entertainment complex.

    The big entertainment money that has migrated to Branson in the last four decades is going to struggle between alienating their midwestern prole visitors and avoiding bad press.

    In the end they will go along with the change and the world will be healed, thank St. Soros.

    Was Roger Taney the first Roman Catholic Supreme Court justice? I imagine he was definitely the first Chief Justice.

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  128. @bomag

    author of the infamous Dred Scott decision
     
    There's a lot more truth in Dred Scott than current sensibilities will admit.

    The Dred Scott decision was obnoxiously anti-states right.

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  129. @Bitfu
    A lot of this reminds of Howard Bloom's 'The Lucifer Principle'. Agree or disagree--Bloom does a great job with conflict theory. Bloom's analysis of Islam in connection with Conflict Theory was not only prescient (it was written in the mid-90s), it was also refreshingly blunt (again, b/c it was written prior to the current PC madness . You couldn't read this kind of candor in a published book nowadays.

    I get the criticisms of not only Conflict Theory and of The Lucifer Principle--but in the case of Bloom's work it was still a fun read that was very stimulating and thought provoking. It doesn't matter whether you agree with Bloom, he'll make you think. This book should have gotten more love when it came out--but it Jared Diamond was all the rage at that time. Needless to say--Bloom's theories and his blunt but wry delivery didn't exactly jibe with Diamond's softer environmental approach to the history of civilizations (a la Guns, Germs and Steel).

    Plus, Bloom is just one crazy dude without the 'proper academic credentials'. At 16, he's an assistant researching the immune system for Roswell Park Cancer Institute. He goes to NYU, studies science and then quits all of it to works as the publicist for Billy Joel and Prince among almost everyone else of note in the 70s and 80s. He's not a guy you cite as an authority if you're at a dinner party. But if you have an open mind he's just damn fun and interesting to read.

    Howard Bloom is a lot of fun.

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  130. @Big Bill
    Agitators are going to press Taney County, Missouri to change its name.

    Taney County is where "Winter's Bone" was filmed and is also home to the Branson entertainment complex.

    The big entertainment money that has migrated to Branson in the last four decades is going to struggle between alienating their midwestern prole visitors and avoiding bad press.

    In the end they will go along with the change and the world will be healed, thank St. Soros.

    This is complete BS. You could do 1000 man on the street interviews and not more than 2 people would have ever heard of Taney.

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  131. There are three types of disagreement between people: disputes about matters of fact, misunderstandings, and conflicts of values.

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  132. @Karl
    OT:

    yellowboys can make homeland-reclamation happen

    https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/settling-scores-northern-rakhine.html

    @5 Karl: “yellowboys can make homeland-reclamation happen”

    Thanks for the link. Reading that and thinking about all the problems caused by European colonialism – specifically the British – moving Indians/Pakistanis/Chinese around for whatever purpose at the time, and the inevitable conflicts that ensued. Husband then noted it was really no different than the European nobles who, at various times, invited in Jews.

    tl;dr: Bringing in another people alien in race, religion, and culture, will ALWAYS result in conflict. No matter one’s initial motives or however real the limitations of the local population. Diversity + proximity = war.

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  133. @anonymous
    The West used to understand such things too, but it's been lobotomized by an academic and media elite who fear this comprehension would lead to another Holocaust.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    Apparently, Cofnas paper is one of (the?) most downloaded in the history of the publication.

    MacDonald says he's working on a reply, and intends to release a draft in the next few days.

    Speaking of which, Steven Pinker and Christina Hoff Sommers have endorsed an article on (see associated paper) critiquing Kevin MacDonald’s Culture of Critique by the Jewish Oxford (grad student?) Nathan Cofnas and Jonathan Anomaly.

    It’s profoundly stupid, as one would expect.

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  134. @Tyrion 2
    Is there a respected expert on any ethnic or cultural group of people who is not from said group and also is critical?

    If I wrote The History of the Italians as a polemic against the Italians would that accord me respect? In any era?

    Are there books like MacDonald's written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren't immediately disregarded as racist trash?

    Are there books like MacDonald’s written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren’t immediately disregarded as racist trash?

    There was no “polemical style” in MacDonald’s books.

    But no books about Whites, regardless of “polemical style”, are ever disregarded as racist trash.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    There was no “polemical style” in MacDonald’s books.

    But no books about Whites, regardless of “polemical style”, are ever disregarded as racist trash.
     
    It is a polemical style and any History of the Italians, History of the English, History of the Swedes that was written in such polemical style would certainly be regarded as racist trash if written by a non-Italian or Swede or Englishman. Exactly the same as for Jews, or Amish or Hindus or Scottish Presbyterians or any other sort of equivalent categories.
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  135. @advancedatheist
    Cofnas in his paper writes:

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.
     
    A bad idea doesn't become a good idea if a white man articulates and defends it. In my understanding of MacDonald's thesis, Jews played an inordinate role in the last hundred years or so in finding, rationalizing and promoting bad ideas, regardless of where these ideas came from.

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.

    1. It’s a book about the organized Jewish community, not an encyclopedia.

    2. Sure — some gentiles had crazy ideas, but they went nowhere. This idiotic criticism PROVES THE POINT. Ideas destructive of society cannot catch on or take root unless a cohesive group works in concert to overcome society’s defenses against such destructive ideas.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    Um...Rousseau is rather more famous and influential than any actually Jewish writer. Except maybe Freud. And Rousseau provided almost all of the groundwork for all of the progressive nonsense, while Freud made a pretty good antidote.
    , @Steve Sailer
    The French Revolution went somewhere.
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  136. @ben tillman

    Are there books like MacDonald’s written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren’t immediately disregarded as racist trash?
     
    There was no "polemical style" in MacDonald's books.

    But no books about Whites, regardless of "polemical style", are ever disregarded as racist trash.

    There was no “polemical style” in MacDonald’s books.

    But no books about Whites, regardless of “polemical style”, are ever disregarded as racist trash.

    It is a polemical style and any History of the Italians, History of the English, History of the Swedes that was written in such polemical style would certainly be regarded as racist trash if written by a non-Italian or Swede or Englishman. Exactly the same as for Jews, or Amish or Hindus or Scottish Presbyterians or any other sort of equivalent categories.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Completely non-responsive.

    You haven't read the books, and you therefore can't begin to support your ridiculous claim.
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  137. @ben tillman

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.
     
    1. It's a book about the organized Jewish community, not an encyclopedia.

    2. Sure -- some gentiles had crazy ideas, but they went nowhere. This idiotic criticism PROVES THE POINT. Ideas destructive of society cannot catch on or take root unless a cohesive group works in concert to overcome society's defenses against such destructive ideas.

    Um…Rousseau is rather more famous and influential than any actually Jewish writer. Except maybe Freud. And Rousseau provided almost all of the groundwork for all of the progressive nonsense, while Freud made a pretty good antidote.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Um…Rousseau is rather more famous and influential than any actually Jewish writer.
     
    That's an opinion that I don't share, but no matter. You need to take your opinion and turn it into an argument. You can't, so you don't.
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  138. @Anon
    "...Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British."

    Not to be rude, but how? How have they underestimated the British? Britain is a relatively weak nation, militarily speaking, and they lack both the international consensus and economic power (and will) to do anything of consequence to the Russians. That's why they've only expelled a few diplomats and not gone to war.

    The Europeans depend upon natural gas supplied by Russia, so their response will be limited beyond words of support, and the US has no desire to cause trouble for themselves before this upcoming North Korean conference. The timing of this gas attack was brilliant.

    "PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out “what is going down” than go on with business-as-usual-let’s-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats."

    I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots over the prospect of being punished by Theresa May. The only person the Russians truly fear is Trump, and look how the British treated the guy - basically banned him from traveling there because they were "offended" over words. "Weak, weak, weak" as Tony Blair once said.

    "Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these “cold cases.” It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian “actions.” MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of “investigating” these prior crimes."

    I'm sure this will embarrass the Russians, but they'll get over it.

    "Uncle Vladimir won’t know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British."

    I have a love/hate relationship with England, so it pains me to say this:

    Britain is a weak country that scares no one, especially not the Russians. The British people couldn't even steel themselves for a visit from Donald Trump (although they have no problem parading around with the Saudis); millions signed a petition to keep him out, they publicly debated keeping him out of the country AFTER he was elected and with the opposition Jeremy Corbyn in firm support of doing so (and before Trump's most controversial statements), their Parliament demanded that Trump reverse his non-Muslim ban travel ban, and their Commons speaker made it clear - publicly - that Trump was banned from even speaking in front of them, not that he would have done so in the first place -- what a bunch of cowards...and all of that was done BEFORE the most objectionable things he said. The Russians have nothing to fear from such a weak people.

    The disrespect and weakness they've displayed over the last few years has won them no friends. Would the American public and political establishment ever act the same way? I doubt it. Kim Jong-un himself could come on a state visit to the US and receive at least a polite, and bipartisan, reception. There would be protests, but no national outrage - especially if people thought it was in their best interest to be respectful. That's a sign of a strong nation. Britain is weak, divided, and spends most of its time virtue signaling and seems unable to decouple pragmatism from raw emotionalism.

    That’s all marks of a country run by women.

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  139. @Tyrion 2
    Might I offer this:

    Statement of the obvious: A lot of people operate under the assumptions of mistake theory and a lot under those of conflict theory and most operate under both at different times and even both at the same time.

    Uncontroversial psychological observation: Those who assume conflict theory tend to be those types of people think in those terms itself.

    Conclusion: Mistake theory and the people who think that way will create a far superior polity so conflict theorists should be chased out of political power for all internal to the polity decision making.

    Conflict theory makes for an unhappy polity.

    Four common Mistake Theorist remedies for conflict resolution; re-education, termination of discussion, deferral of disputes to favored venues, and importing ringers to vote in elections and referendums. These also make for an unhappy polity.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    I don't see how purposefully importing ringers to fight in a domestic conflict is anything other than an instance of conflict theorists following conflict theory.
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  140. @Autochthon
    Actually it's a perfectly valid point. If I am having sex with a woman you are not. If she is pergnant with, nursing, and rearing my children, she is not doing so for yours. In all but the most bizarre and perverse situations, this stuff occurs in some kind of monogamous, or at least matrimonial, relationship, usually with a component of domestic teamwork. I'll make it concrete. I have a wife and son. I work and they – and only they – get to live on my dime. No one else gets to make whoopie with me or my wife. She only makes babies for me, I only put babies in her. Other people might like to bang me or her, but they lost out to the competition. That's what zero-sum is all about. A limited resource (my wife's cha-cha, womb, caregiving, etc. and my hoo-hoo dilly and earnings) is only available to one person. Everyone else loses out. It's the same with many things: land, food, water, people. If I'm occupying it, eating it, drinking it, or banging it, you ain't. In fact, very little is not a zero-sum game in this world. Information is a classic example (everyone in the world can read The Iliad at the same time, no trouble, with no one else being prevented from it). But even certain kinds of information are zero-sum (e.g., trade secrets).

    Speaking of blather: what is a "negative payout?"

    But that is not the way most of the world works . Its either the African model, lots of kids with dubious paternity and no men working. Or the Muslim big man model four wives and many concubines.

    The nuclear family is rare and an abberation.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    People occupy land serially, too. Houses are sold. Leases begun and terminated. This doesn't mean there is not finite land and that the competition for it is a zero-sum game.

    Hello, even in an orgy, there's a point at which people have to take turns.

    So, yes, mating is still a zero-sum affair. Particularly regarding women. A woman has it in her to bear only so many children, hence the competition for them. (Review the imoetus for the discussion.)
    , @AnotherDad

    But that is not the way most of the world works . Its either the African model, lots of kids with dubious paternity and no men working. Or the Muslim big man model four wives and many concubines.

    The nuclear family is rare and an abberation.
     
    The nuclear family is "rare" only in that traditionally adult children would have to be living on the farm (or the shop) with their parents for a while before the parents died and they inherited it.

    But Autochthon didn't say "nuclear family", he said

    some kind of monogamous, or at least matrimonial, relationship
     
    And this is absolutely correct. Anywhere there is "civilization" there is monogamy. The two go together. Monogamy is what allows men to devote their time to something other than fighting and mating guarding and be able to cooperate with other men and build stuff, or at least devote cycles primarily to production. (It doesn't have to be absolute, the super rich or elite can have extra wives or concubines, but the actual practice must be close to 1-to-1 to avoid instability and women must belong to a particular man to insure paternity of and financial responsibility for children.)

    The African model you cite is atypical. And it correlates with Africa never having an civilization--no written language, no lasting architecture, no achievements of note.

    In the rest of the world because civilization generally beats barabarism--out producing and out organizing it--the civilized model with matrimony won out. (Cultural selection.)
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  141. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Tyrion 2,

    There are several problems with your argument. Firstly, you ask: “Is there a respected expert on any ethnic or cultural group of people who is not from said group and also is critical?”

    Jared Diamond’s Guns, Germs, and Steel is highly respected. By way of example, let’s say that Diamond’s work were not about white Christian conquest and settlement of America, but about the creation of the state of Israel. “John Doe’s Guns, Germs and Steel**. How the Jews conquered the Holy Land and ethnically cleansed the natives.” Would Doe be the venerated respected figure that Diamond is? Is it only okay when you write such a “polemic” against white Christians?

    I’m sure there are countless similar examples, but that’s just the first that pops to mind. Perhaps someone who’s more well-read can offer a few examples.

    Hitler’s Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen attempts to paint all Germans as guilty for the Holocaust. How would a Stalin’s Willing Executioners be received, that instead focused on the roles of Kaganovich, Trotsy, Ehrenburg, Yagoda the Cheka and NKVD, and painted all Jews in the Soviet Union as responsible for the deaths of millions of Christians? Why isn’t Israel sending Holodomor reparations money to Ukraine every month? Why isn’t it sending reparations money to Palestinians?

    Of course, a fundamental question is “what qualifies as a polemic.” Many people throughout history have written critical things about other people and maintained their respectability. The Jews, and, to a lesser degree, their pets in the coalition of the fringes, are the only people of whom criticism will get you fired from your job and severely ostracized. See: Easterbrook, Sanchez, Gibson, Sobran, MacDonald etc. You can’t seriously be contending that there is one standard when there are so obviously two?

    ** “Terrorism, Uzis, and the Lavon Affair”

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  142. @Neil Templeton
    Four common Mistake Theorist remedies for conflict resolution; re-education, termination of discussion, deferral of disputes to favored venues, and importing ringers to vote in elections and referendums. These also make for an unhappy polity.

    I don’t see how purposefully importing ringers to fight in a domestic conflict is anything other than an instance of conflict theorists following conflict theory.

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Oh no. It is simply a means to allow progress until the recalcitrant and ignorant fade away. My point is that the true mistake theorists are quickly left behind as it becomes clear that the opposition is not going to quietly adopt the narrative. Then comes the moment to shine for conflict theorists (often masquerading as mistake theorists) and more brutal measures. The call for understanding and peaceful resolution never ceases, nor the cry that opponents to the common weal lack true knowledge of the grave threats to society.
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  143. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    To clarify one point, I don’t accept the premise that MacDonald wrote a polemic.

    If MacDonald had been writing of the diaspora Chinese community, or Romani, or the Brahmins in India, would his work be considered a “polemic?” If you were to say that the Brahmins employ a group evolutionary strategy, and they support pseudo-intellectual movements that further their interests. Would that be considered polemical?

    If he had said that Caste in India is a group evolutionary strategy that’s employed to subjugate the lower Castes, would that be a polemic? Would he be ostracized from polite society. It may be wrong, would he be severely ostracized as he has been?

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  144. @Tyrion 2

    There was no “polemical style” in MacDonald’s books.

    But no books about Whites, regardless of “polemical style”, are ever disregarded as racist trash.
     
    It is a polemical style and any History of the Italians, History of the English, History of the Swedes that was written in such polemical style would certainly be regarded as racist trash if written by a non-Italian or Swede or Englishman. Exactly the same as for Jews, or Amish or Hindus or Scottish Presbyterians or any other sort of equivalent categories.

    Completely non-responsive.

    You haven’t read the books, and you therefore can’t begin to support your ridiculous claim.

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  145. @Tyrion 2
    Um...Rousseau is rather more famous and influential than any actually Jewish writer. Except maybe Freud. And Rousseau provided almost all of the groundwork for all of the progressive nonsense, while Freud made a pretty good antidote.

    Um…Rousseau is rather more famous and influential than any actually Jewish writer.

    That’s an opinion that I don’t share, but no matter. You need to take your opinion and turn it into an argument. You can’t, so you don’t.

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  146. Both theories have their place. “Mistake Theory” better explains the propaganda assaulted masses. “Conflict Theory” works better for the smoke filled rooms of the elites.

    Alex Whateversperg seems like a pretty smart guy; but he’s not at Steve’s level.

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  147. @Tyrion 2
    I don't see how purposefully importing ringers to fight in a domestic conflict is anything other than an instance of conflict theorists following conflict theory.

    Oh no. It is simply a means to allow progress until the recalcitrant and ignorant fade away. My point is that the true mistake theorists are quickly left behind as it becomes clear that the opposition is not going to quietly adopt the narrative. Then comes the moment to shine for conflict theorists (often masquerading as mistake theorists) and more brutal measures. The call for understanding and peaceful resolution never ceases, nor the cry that opponents to the common weal lack true knowledge of the grave threats to society.

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  148. @ben tillman

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.
     
    1. It's a book about the organized Jewish community, not an encyclopedia.

    2. Sure -- some gentiles had crazy ideas, but they went nowhere. This idiotic criticism PROVES THE POINT. Ideas destructive of society cannot catch on or take root unless a cohesive group works in concert to overcome society's defenses against such destructive ideas.

    The French Revolution went somewhere.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    it did, but France sucks now...at least, most of the cities. 1%'s have homes in Portugal, Malta, Cayman's, Costa Rica, Uruguay, Argentina.
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  149. @Inquiring Mind
    How about this for mistake/conflict theory?

    1. Russia has been assassinating its expatriots for a variety of reasons, a lot of them in England because that is where they like to "hang out."

    2. The U.K. has long been the best at the spy-vs-spy business, Kim Philby and friends notwithstanding. This has been the case since, Elizabeth I or even Henry VIII.

    3. The British have let the Russians do their "wet work" on British soil because Treaty of Westphalia or other reasons. The Westphalia reason is that Russia rubbing out their traitors or wrongly connected business people is a Russian thing that is no concern to the Crown. Also because of #2, the British know what is going on even if they keep their mouths shut about it, something they are particularly good at, and knowing about murders that they don't prosecute may give them some tradecraft or nation-state leverage when they most need it.

    4. Out of their arrogance and stupidity, Putin and fellow Russians have crossed a bright, red line with the attack on Srkipal with a chemical WMD. Maybe they thought the British were pushovers of how they looked the other way with all of the other political/spy-trade murders, but the Russians are completely stupid and lame and ignorant of history in totally underestimating the British.

    5. PM May is not bluffing when she is warning of consequences. The British do not bluster and shoot off at the mouth like Russians do, and when the British PM is issuing a threat, you really need to figure out "what is going down" than go on with business-as-usual-let's-respond-by-expelling-some-British-diplomats.

    6. Scotland Yard is now reopening all of these "cold cases." It will not just be the Skripal attack but the whole long list of Russian "actions." MI-6 or whatever British Foreign Intelligence is called knows where all the bodies are buried, so to speak, but Scotland Yard will go through the fiction of "investigating" these prior crimes.

    7. Uncle Vladimir won't know what hit him because he is arrogant, stupid and ignorant of history in completely underestimating the British.

    I wouldn’t call your post a mistake/conflict theory. It’s more a demonstration of a pack of lies listed one after the other in order to shill for war with Russia. BTW, it’s impossible to underestimate the British. That whole stinking society is constantly showing off new lows in intelligence, morality and basic human decency.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I wouldn’t call your post a mistake/conflict theory. It’s more a demonstration of a pack of lies listed one after the other in order to shill for war with Russia.
     
    They may or may not be lies, but there's no reason to believe anything the UK government says about anything.
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  150. @inertial
    I expected this kneejerk.

    That's like saying that if you think that nationalists may have a point you must be a fan of Auschwitz.

    But you do touch on something important about the conflict theory (of which Marxism is a subset.) It may be more correct about how the real world works than the mistake theory. It probably is. But the problem with the conflict theory is that it tend to attract people who like conflict. Who feel that war-war is better than jaw-jaw and want to destroy the other side rather than persuade them.

    With no brakes, this could lead to horrors.

    That’s like saying that if you think that nationalists may have a point you must be a fan of Auschwitz.

    No, it isn’t. Nationalism does not have a track record of unparalleled suffering. You want to offer Marxism as an important subset of conflict theory, but Marxism is necessary to no theory worthy of consideration.

    Your subsequent paragraphs implicitly testify to the same. You do not need Marxism to make any point you have made, but by God you will insist on trotting out Marx as your ally. Because you think you need Marxists.

    To do so, you have to think that drinking an aqueous solution of Drano will mitigate the effects of swallowing the solid form of the same. And when the liquid form kills the credulous, you will offer the gas version of Drano as the ‘solution’.

    My advice is don’t ingest Drano at all. Marxism is poison, and you know I am right.

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  151. And what were Rouseau’s crazy ideas that were eventuated in the Revolution? I know of one very crazy idea, but the Revolution is completely at odds with that.

    Why does Rousseau, or his ideas, rather than those who found that his ideas served their interests, take the blame? Why should we presume that those who found that his ideas served their interests would not have come up with those ideas or other ideas to justify their actions? Why should we suppose that they needed any ideology or moral justification to persuade them to act?

    Yes, the French Revolution happened, but how was it — or more particularly the bad parts of it — caused by Rousseau’s crazy ideas?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I would nominate Rousseau's Tabula Rasa as the leftoid evil concept without parallel, but I do not think it is causative, because it's just what every pushy clique always presupposes. A lot of intellectual attribition is meaningless.
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  152. @Anonymous
    Notice how White the hippie states are. As they get more "diversity", they will be less hippie.

    hahaaa…once they get less hippy they will reach for…”shit, where is that gun daddy gave me??? – where is that bible mommy gave me???” It’s coming…Democrats want to fill this country up with millions and millions of immigrants.

    3 years ago, I posted that the Zombie craze, like The Walking Dead, was foreshadowing. So, far, neither American political party wants to outlaw serious guns. Homeschoolers (never needed to be one, btw) 1, socialists and neoliberals, 0. People lie about having guns in their homes, particularly, leftists. I know, bc, I ask..and asked for 20 years, if their where guns in the home, while I left my gun-loving kids in there home! haha!

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  153. reverse there and their in the last sentence: tribute to my mommy, an autodidact, 5 language speaker, teacher of English, youngest Master’s degree holder from University. I don’t want her tssk, tsssking from the big yonder :) at my many grammatical errors.

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  154. @Steve Sailer
    The French Revolution went somewhere.

    it did, but France sucks now…at least, most of the cities. 1%’s have homes in Portugal, Malta, Cayman’s, Costa Rica, Uruguay, Argentina.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    it did, but France sucks now…
     
    I agree that France sucks, but the things that are wrong with France today are long-term consequences of the French Revolution.
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  155. @Whiskey
    But that is not the way most of the world works . Its either the African model, lots of kids with dubious paternity and no men working. Or the Muslim big man model four wives and many concubines.

    The nuclear family is rare and an abberation.

    People occupy land serially, too. Houses are sold. Leases begun and terminated. This doesn’t mean there is not finite land and that the competition for it is a zero-sum game.

    Hello, even in an orgy, there’s a point at which people have to take turns.

    So, yes, mating is still a zero-sum affair. Particularly regarding women. A woman has it in her to bear only so many children, hence the competition for them. (Review the imoetus for the discussion.)

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  156. @Whiskey
    But that is not the way most of the world works . Its either the African model, lots of kids with dubious paternity and no men working. Or the Muslim big man model four wives and many concubines.

    The nuclear family is rare and an abberation.

    But that is not the way most of the world works . Its either the African model, lots of kids with dubious paternity and no men working. Or the Muslim big man model four wives and many concubines.

    The nuclear family is rare and an abberation.

    The nuclear family is “rare” only in that traditionally adult children would have to be living on the farm (or the shop) with their parents for a while before the parents died and they inherited it.

    But Autochthon didn’t say “nuclear family”, he said

    some kind of monogamous, or at least matrimonial, relationship

    And this is absolutely correct. Anywhere there is “civilization” there is monogamy. The two go together. Monogamy is what allows men to devote their time to something other than fighting and mating guarding and be able to cooperate with other men and build stuff, or at least devote cycles primarily to production. (It doesn’t have to be absolute, the super rich or elite can have extra wives or concubines, but the actual practice must be close to 1-to-1 to avoid instability and women must belong to a particular man to insure paternity of and financial responsibility for children.)

    The African model you cite is atypical. And it correlates with Africa never having an civilization–no written language, no lasting architecture, no achievements of note.

    In the rest of the world because civilization generally beats barabarism–out producing and out organizing it–the civilized model with matrimony won out. (Cultural selection.)

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  157. @Reg Cæsar


    Yeah, but where is Çatal Hüyük today?
     
    In Turkey.

    (What do I win?)
     
    Wrong. It isn't in Turkey, it's under Turkey.

    You're awarded a Close-But-No cigar. It's not Cuban, but kind of cubic.

    Wrong. It isn’t in Turkey, it’s under Turkey.

    Now that is a deep state.

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  158. @spandrell
    Mr. Sailer here apparently cares what this foreigner (who does not live in nor has even visited the US) has to think.

    Nationalism is one thing, parochialism is another. Seeing a lot of that around here.

    Nationalism is one thing, parochialism is another. Seeing a lot of that around here.

    I’d have thought that a healthy nationalism would lead to a respect for the nationalist aspirations of others.

    A lot of American nationalism isn’t really nationalism at all, it’s imperialism. A lot of American nationalists claim to dislike internationalism but they only dislike it when it gets in the way of American imperial ambitions.

    Naturally not all American nationalists think this way, but a disturbing number seem to.

    I suspect that it comes down to the fact that Americans have very little genuine sense of national identity, so their imperialism is a substitute for a sense of nationhood. It also explains their enthusiasm for militarism.

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  159. @Lagertha
    it did, but France sucks now...at least, most of the cities. 1%'s have homes in Portugal, Malta, Cayman's, Costa Rica, Uruguay, Argentina.

    it did, but France sucks now…

    I agree that France sucks, but the things that are wrong with France today are long-term consequences of the French Revolution.

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  160. @Mr. Anon

    I wrote a longish comment on how I thought Prime Minister May will get the upper hand over Mr. Putin over the Skripal attack, but it just vanished when I hit “Publish Comment” — mistakes happen for reason?
     
    Yes. Perhaps the reason is that you are inept.

    By the way, your post is up there for all to see. Did the SVR engineer that too?

    There is some new thing where, when you hit publish, the comment disappears rather than going into reviewable/editable pre-publish status. The comment later shows up as normal.

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  161. @advancedatheist
    Cofnas in his paper writes:

    MacDonald ignores a long history of radical and critical gentile thought from the ancient Greek philosophers to Rousseau to the Social Gospel Movement to French existentialism to Bill Ayers to Peggy McIntosh and countless other examples.
     
    A bad idea doesn't become a good idea if a white man articulates and defends it. In my understanding of MacDonald's thesis, Jews played an inordinate role in the last hundred years or so in finding, rationalizing and promoting bad ideas, regardless of where these ideas came from.

    So in other words Cofnas appeals to the recanonized “good guys” misrepresented by Frankfurters as in agreement with modern bomb throwers. There is very little in Greek philosophy that really relates to nineteenth century onward Jewish intellectual subversion, but it is true that France really has been a problem. That complicates rather than substantiating a “Western” legacy, like if a cultural tendency claimed to be pan-Asian occurs only in Japan.

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  162. @ben tillman
    And what were Rouseau's crazy ideas that were eventuated in the Revolution? I know of one very crazy idea, but the Revolution is completely at odds with that.

    Why does Rousseau, or his ideas, rather than those who found that his ideas served their interests, take the blame? Why should we presume that those who found that his ideas served their interests would not have come up with those ideas or other ideas to justify their actions? Why should we suppose that they needed any ideology or moral justification to persuade them to act?

    Yes, the French Revolution happened, but how was it -- or more particularly the bad parts of it -- caused by Rousseau's crazy ideas?

    I would nominate Rousseau’s Tabula Rasa as the leftoid evil concept without parallel, but I do not think it is causative, because it’s just what every pushy clique always presupposes. A lot of intellectual attribition is meaningless.

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  163. @Tyrion 2
    Is there a respected expert on any ethnic or cultural group of people who is not from said group and also is critical?

    If I wrote The History of the Italians as a polemic against the Italians would that accord me respect? In any era?

    Are there books like MacDonald's written about any particular group in the same polemical style that aren't immediately disregarded as racist trash?

    You must not have been around a university or read academic stuff lately. There is an entire field you may have seen discussed here, it is the living definition of respectability, and all it does is polemicize a particular group with less objectivity and data than MacDonald shows regarding Our Masters.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    You mean like the movement #OscarsSoWhite? The one that criticised Jews receiving awards because they were white?
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  164. @J.Ross
    You must not have been around a university or read academic stuff lately. There is an entire field you may have seen discussed here, it is the living definition of respectability, and all it does is polemicize a particular group with less objectivity and data than MacDonald shows regarding Our Masters.

    You mean like the movement #OscarsSoWhite? The one that criticised Jews receiving awards because they were white?

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    You mean like the movement #OscarsSoWhite? The one that criticised Jews receiving awards because they were white?
     
    No, what we saw was a "movement" (your term) attacking whites for the actions of Jews. It's scapegoating, and anti-whitism, and entirely respectable.

    And I notice that you still have no idea how to support your assertions regarding MacDonald.
    , @J.Ross
    No, I don't remember saying anything here about a Twitter campaign. I'm talking about serious, respectable academics and intellectuals who work full time "deconstructing whiteness" (and calling for white genocide while simultaneously saying that they do not) without any of the care and respect MacDonald demonstrates while deconstructing a particular Jewish project (while not calling for any harm to come to Jews). Books, articles, speeches, symposia, the history professor helping out National Geographic, the guy they had on Penn and Teller's BS who assigns a numerical score to a workplace for its racism, pretty much every respectable social scientist, Noel Ignatiev, Tim Wise, Jane Eliott, etc..
    But of course maybe I was talking about a selfie filter. Reasonable guess there.
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  165. @Twodees Partain
    I wouldn't call your post a mistake/conflict theory. It's more a demonstration of a pack of lies listed one after the other in order to shill for war with Russia. BTW, it's impossible to underestimate the British. That whole stinking society is constantly showing off new lows in intelligence, morality and basic human decency.

    I wouldn’t call your post a mistake/conflict theory. It’s more a demonstration of a pack of lies listed one after the other in order to shill for war with Russia.

    They may or may not be lies, but there’s no reason to believe anything the UK government says about anything.

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    • Agree: Twodees Partain
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  166. @Tyrion 2
    Might I offer this:

    Statement of the obvious: A lot of people operate under the assumptions of mistake theory and a lot under those of conflict theory and most operate under both at different times and even both at the same time.

    Uncontroversial psychological observation: Those who assume conflict theory tend to be those types of people think in those terms itself.

    Conclusion: Mistake theory and the people who think that way will create a far superior polity so conflict theorists should be chased out of political power for all internal to the polity decision making.

    Conflict theory makes for an unhappy polity.

    Conflict theory makes for an unhappy polity.

    No. Conflict makes for an unhappy polity. Conflict misunderstood as mistake makes for an unhappier society than does conflict understood as conflict.

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  167. @Tyrion 2
    You mean like the movement #OscarsSoWhite? The one that criticised Jews receiving awards because they were white?

    You mean like the movement #OscarsSoWhite? The one that criticised Jews receiving awards because they were white?

    No, what we saw was a “movement” (your term) attacking whites for the actions of Jews. It’s scapegoating, and anti-whitism, and entirely respectable.

    And I notice that you still have no idea how to support your assertions regarding MacDonald.

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  168. @Tyrion 2
    You mean like the movement #OscarsSoWhite? The one that criticised Jews receiving awards because they were white?

    No, I don’t remember saying anything here about a Twitter campaign. I’m talking about serious, respectable academics and intellectuals who work full time “deconstructing whiteness” (and calling for white genocide while simultaneously saying that they do not) without any of the care and respect MacDonald demonstrates while deconstructing a particular Jewish project (while not calling for any harm to come to Jews). Books, articles, speeches, symposia, the history professor helping out National Geographic, the guy they had on Penn and Teller’s BS who assigns a numerical score to a workplace for its racism, pretty much every respectable social scientist, Noel Ignatiev, Tim Wise, Jane Eliott, etc..
    But of course maybe I was talking about a selfie filter. Reasonable guess there.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    My point was that European Jews are a subset of white people. Just as Amish are. And all subsets of white people that attend university have engaged in that crap. But that said crap is not equivalent to writing a history of Italians, Jews, English or whatever that is as polemical as old MacDonald is and not being called racist trash.

    Keep up.
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  169. @J.Ross
    No, I don't remember saying anything here about a Twitter campaign. I'm talking about serious, respectable academics and intellectuals who work full time "deconstructing whiteness" (and calling for white genocide while simultaneously saying that they do not) without any of the care and respect MacDonald demonstrates while deconstructing a particular Jewish project (while not calling for any harm to come to Jews). Books, articles, speeches, symposia, the history professor helping out National Geographic, the guy they had on Penn and Teller's BS who assigns a numerical score to a workplace for its racism, pretty much every respectable social scientist, Noel Ignatiev, Tim Wise, Jane Eliott, etc..
    But of course maybe I was talking about a selfie filter. Reasonable guess there.

    My point was that European Jews are a subset of white people. Just as Amish are. And all subsets of white people that attend university have engaged in that crap. But that said crap is not equivalent to writing a history of Italians, Jews, English or whatever that is as polemical as old MacDonald is and not being called racist trash.

    Keep up.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So your point was incoherent gibberish.
    >Jews are white
    According to them? The only Jewish-embraced whteness I am familiar with is the self-defeatingly lazy and cynical Dear Fellow White People twitter campaign, or Tim Wise's shame sham.
    >All college types engage in that
    Indeed. Some engage to the degree of making it a career and writing multiple books and doing speaking tours about that.
    >but it's not racist trash like MacDonald
    Okay chief, you sound like you got a real highlit, place-marked, thumb worn, cracked spine copy of anything MacDonald ever wrote in his life on your knee right now. These people talk about me dying violently, they laugh at or deny white deaths while saying that more whites should die, they blame whites for everything that ever happened -- but they're not racists. I guess I just forgot that the JIDF subscribes to the idea that it's not possible to be racist against whites, just like I forgot where you quoted MacDonald saying anything about Jews that is a tenth as hateful or violence-connected as a normal Tim Wise screed or the tweet Berty linked upthread. Go ahead and call MacDonald racist trash again, maybe there's a Mustafa point. But good luck pretending there is no respectable mainstream anti-white pseudo-intellectual religion on a blog that talks about it every day.
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  170. @Tyrion 2
    My point was that European Jews are a subset of white people. Just as Amish are. And all subsets of white people that attend university have engaged in that crap. But that said crap is not equivalent to writing a history of Italians, Jews, English or whatever that is as polemical as old MacDonald is and not being called racist trash.

    Keep up.

    So your point was incoherent gibberish.
    >Jews are white
    According to them? The only Jewish-embraced whteness I am familiar with is the self-defeatingly lazy and cynical Dear Fellow White People twitter campaign, or Tim Wise’s shame sham.
    >All college types engage in that
    Indeed. Some engage to the degree of making it a career and writing multiple books and doing speaking tours about that.
    >but it’s not racist trash like MacDonald
    Okay chief, you sound like you got a real highlit, place-marked, thumb worn, cracked spine copy of anything MacDonald ever wrote in his life on your knee right now. These people talk about me dying violently, they laugh at or deny white deaths while saying that more whites should die, they blame whites for everything that ever happened — but they’re not racists. I guess I just forgot that the JIDF subscribes to the idea that it’s not possible to be racist against whites, just like I forgot where you quoted MacDonald saying anything about Jews that is a tenth as hateful or violence-connected as a normal Tim Wise screed or the tweet Berty linked upthread. Go ahead and call MacDonald racist trash again, maybe there’s a Mustafa point. But good luck pretending there is no respectable mainstream anti-white pseudo-intellectual religion on a blog that talks about it every day.

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    • Agree: ben tillman
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