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On Twitter, Battle Beagle calls my attention to this table from the International Technology Innovation Foundation’s 2016 report on The Demographics of Innovation in the United States:

They did a survey of 923 leading technology innovator individuals. Only about four (0.4%) were born in Mexico, although Mexican-born people make up 3.9% of the population resident in the U.S. (according to the Census Bureau). In contrast, 12.6% of their sample were born in Europe even though European-born people make up only 1.5% of the U.S. population.

So European immigrants are about 82 times (and Asian immigrants about 45 times) as likely to be innovators as Mexican immigrants.

Indeed, it would appear that Mexican immigrants are somewhat less innovative than African immigrants. (Warning: tiny sample sizes.)

This doesn’t mean that Mexico doesn’t have highly skilled and inventive individuals. For example, cameraman Emmanuel Lubezki won three straight Best Cinematography Oscars recently. He’s extremely innovative. But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.

 
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  1. Carlos Sim! Oh wait?

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    • Replies: @Escher

    Carlos Sim
     
    Was that a Freudian slip, considering the source of his fortune?
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  2. Emmanuel Lubezki is not exactly a typical Mexican name. I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz. This is like the “African American” honor students who all turn out to be Igbos from Nigeria. Or his countrymen Carlos Salim and Salma Hayek who come from an ever further east Mexican province – Beirut. If you are talking about “real” Mexicans like the 99% of illegal aliens who are Mestizos with a high % of Amerindian blood, that .4% would be even lower.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    From Wikipedia:

    "Lubezki was born to a Jewish family in Mexico City, Mexico."
    , @Anonymous
    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative. They seem to be lack the ability to connect how openness and innovation are fundamentally affiliated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Creativity

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness, which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols. With the ever-decreasing importance of land to capital, the Jewish have become uniquely capable of handling modernity.

    , @AnotherDad

    I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz.
     
    LOL. Well done.
    , @athEIst
    At least +1 just for the geography.
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  3. Mexico’s recent waves appear to resemble those of Poland. Poland isn’t that rich of a country, but lately it’s had a lot going for it, especially compared to most of its European neighbors. So the classic image of immigrants flipped: Poles with skills stayed and got jobs that were often better than anything they could get abroad (plus being closer to home), and England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled. As a result the English have lately had an unfairly severe view of Poles. Mexico has similarly seen more skilled opportunities in-country, and their real-life-comic-book-evil elite view the Mariana Boatlift as a reasonable model for poverty alleviation.
    The irony of Guillermo Del Toro babbling about anti-immigrant racism is that this would never have been an issue if Del Toro was representative of recent immigration.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.
    , @Peter Akuleyev

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled
     
    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren't any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don't dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.
    , @nebulafox
    It's only superseded by the irony of Mexican creole elites criticizing American workers for racism, while they do everything in their power to get as many of the darker-skinned proles (who they openly despise. Mexican society in general is highly "Eurocentric" and classist in a way that would make American liberals gape in awe) across the border. Releases economic pressure on themselves and the threat of revolution, plus billions of tax-free remittances.

    As for the US? Well, it helps oligarchs, petty plutocrats, and the intellectuals in the upper-middle class attain the freedom and independence of their Latin American counterparts, which they are pretty enthusiastic about. The rest of the US... well, who cares about blacks and deplorables, yeah? Plus legal working class immigrants.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html

    Anybody who thinks the Mexican government isn't willing to baldly lie to ensure that Mexican oligarchs don't get their pockets filled, or is in any way, shape or form some heroic anti-racist crusader, doesn't know the first thing about how politics in Mexico works or the history or economic structure of the place. Ramos and all their ilk? European descended criollos, the whole lot of them-these people are the descendents of the guys who enslaved the whole wretched place, kvetching about the "privilege" of white Americans who make a fraction of what they do.


    PS:

    Then, of course, there is the little matter of how Mexico treats its *own* illegal immigrants from Central America....

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  4. I notice that 35.5% of this Innovators list are foreign-born. Is innovation another of those pesky things Americans Just Won’t Do?

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    • Replies: @bomag

    I notice that 35.5% of this Innovators list are foreign-born
     
    We do attract talented foreigners; this is often used to justify our current immigration miasma.

    But a few hundred innovators hardly justifies bringing in the village burners. Far better to the let the innovators do their wonderful work in their home countries, and we can then import the innovations.
    , @AP
    It doesn't pay. You can be a brilliant engineer, and work your ass off 50 hours a week making 150k a year, or get into management and work 60 hour weeks managing huge projects for double that.

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.

    Or if you don't mind working long hours, get into finance and earn much more than would a physician.

    This is why many innovators in the USA are from places such as China, India, or Eastern Europe.
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  5. But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.

    Whatever you do, don’t tell Fred Reed……

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    • LOL: TheBoom
    • Replies: @TheBoom
    Wait. Fred tells us they have bookstores and hospitals in Mexico so the judgement on Mexicans must be racist by using racist metrics to define innovation. Thank of how innovative you have to be to sneak into a country and collect services while illegal
    , @RadicalCenter
    That's Fred Reedriguez.
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  6. RE: Mexico and innovation:

    Mexico and the Nobel Prize.Mexico According to WIKIPEDIA, three people of Mexican origins have won a Nobel. In contrast, Canada has 23, and the USA has 306.

    Now, these figures are from WIKIPEDIA, so I’m sure that one could argue about the margins…but the overall portrait of Mexican achievement is pretty dire.

    How about Fields Medalists?:
    United States 12

    France 10

    Soviet Union (3) / Russia (6) 9

    United Kingdom 7

    Japan 3
    Belgium 2

    West Germany (1) / Germany (0) 1

    Australia 1

    British Hong Kong 1

    Finland 1

    Israel 1

    Italy 1

    Norway 1

    New Zealand 1

    Sweden 1

    Vietnam 1

    Iran 1

    Brazil 1

    (None Stateless) 1

    I’ve left out Manjul Bhargava. His background is complicated.

    So, Mexico has zero.And all of Latin America has exactly one, which ties them with New Zealand.

    So, I hope that no one is counting on the Latinx contributing much to STEM in Anglo-America…..

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    All three are of upper class background and one, he who won for science and not "peace" or literature, could be reasonably called one of Mexico's best sent to us: his academic posts have all been in the USA, and his son practices medicine in Boston.
    More of the same, please, but no more of those others, thank you.
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  7. Via West Hunter, a map of the world scaled according to the production of scientific papers….

    Of course, quantity does not necessarily equal quality…..but I kinda doubt that Mexico is leading in terms of quality….

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/zones-of-thought/

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    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    The Falkland Islands (civilian pop ~3000?) is bigger than Argentina. Lol.
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  8. OT, but as I speculated recently, erectile dysfunction drugs played some role in the ability of skeevy old guys to actually act upon their fantasies:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-scandal-what-are-penile-injections-why-used-2017-12

    Not surprising. I looked at the guy and think overweight glutton at a minimum, those guys start having problems pretty early in life.

    It will be interesting to see if this is a factor in any more cases.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Weinstein's gluttony nearly killed him.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/923100728817790976
    , @stillCARealist
    "Head of andrology". Never heard that word before. Study of male reproductive afflictions.

    Where does somebody's head and heart have to be to go to the lengths this guy went to to have temporary sexual fulfillment? I think he needs a whole new syndrome named after him. Andrology syndrome.
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  9. And the Mexicans who have been here for a really long time aren’t doing so hot….

    Here are the National Merit finalists for the Albuquerque Public Schools system, for 2018:

    Cibola High School
    Gage Boman, Michael Kiesling

    Del Norte High School
    Benjamin Cochran

    Eldorado High School
    Maria Anna Cheshire, Caroline Pineda, Nicolas Savignon, Todd Snow

    La Cueva High School
    Thomas Brown, Gabriel Cuneo, Kaan Dokmeci, Matthew Eck, Emma Hazard, Akshay Jain, Abigail Jones, Nicholas Justice, Brandon Limary, Siddharth Namachivayam, Daniel Ndibongo, Megan Tran, Elizabeth Vaughan

    Manzano High School
    Emily Clarke

    Volcano Vista High School
    Naomi Rankin, Matthew Sanchez

    Again, the Hispanics and Amerindians, that make up more than two thirds of the students, don’t show up much. I forget why they were supposed to. It’s not happening in California, either.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/

    I guess that Ron’s “Super-Flynn” savior hasn’t worked his IQ voodoo yet….

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    I believe that only about 45% of Obama's DREAMERs actually have graduated from high school. How is that for a special class of people that need Congress to drop everything and grant amnesty right now?
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  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “This doesn’t mean that Mexico doesn’t have highly skilled and inventive individuals. For example, cameraman Emmanuel Lubezki won three straight Best Cinematography Oscars recently. He’s extremely innovative. But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.”

    His full name is Emmanuel Lubezki Morgenstern and he’s Jewish. Now there’s a layer of innovative people.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yup.
    , @RadicalCenter
    He's Slavic, Germanic, probably Italian, and Jewish, thank you very much. "Jews" ought to stop taking credit for their ample Germanic, Slavic, and Italian genes.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy

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  11. @Anonymous
    "This doesn’t mean that Mexico doesn’t have highly skilled and inventive individuals. For example, cameraman Emmanuel Lubezki won three straight Best Cinematography Oscars recently. He’s extremely innovative. But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people."

    His full name is Emmanuel Lubezki Morgenstern and he's Jewish. Now there's a layer of innovative people.

    Yup.

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    • Replies: @bored identity
    One very innovative and gifted Weird Al Jankovicstein sans mustache, to be precised :

    https://i1.wp.com/hipertextual.com/files/2016/02/emmanuel-lubeski-morgenstern.jpg?resize=300%2C198

    emmanuel-lubeski-morgenstern.jpg (JPEG Image, 300 × 198 pixels)
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  12. Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and other Latinos tend to be fatalistic, comfortable with mediocrity, anti-intellectual, and obsessed with partying. Those aren’t cultural traits conducive to innovation.

    Indians and Chinese are hungry, subject to enormous family pressure, and reverent towards education. These are major factors behind their success.

    This is why, relative to their potential, some groups underachieve and why some overachieve.

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  13. @syonredux

    But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.
     
    Whatever you do, don't tell Fred Reed......

    Wait. Fred tells us they have bookstores and hospitals in Mexico so the judgement on Mexicans must be racist by using racist metrics to define innovation. Thank of how innovative you have to be to sneak into a country and collect services while illegal

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  14. As Fred Reed would tell you, Mexico is a land of opportunity, and indeed it is. So was the US in the 1930s, but you had hardcore down-and-out types sitting on not-so Magic Dirt® in Oklahoma who could only move, ironically enough, to the Magic Dirt® of Sunny California and the land of freedom and opportunity abutting it. These are just the New Okies. We need to remember those old Okie pictures, commissioned by the Roosevelt administration, and find our compassion.

    Excuse me while I vomit for saying that last bit.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    Exporting Mexicans to the US and then receiving the money those illegals send back to Mexico means that illegals are Mexico's most profitable export.

    Mexico's govt. actually facilitates the export of Mexicans to the US.
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  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah…but Europeans have, historically, been *unusually* creative and resourceful when it comes to science, technology and culture in general. Even when compared to Asians. Europe is literally 10 X more than all other continents combined. In some Ivy League courses, almost two thirds of professors were born in Europe. I read somewhere that Europeans created 96% of all that has ever been created in science, math, art and literature. LOL. So it’s not fair to compare Mexicans to them. Compare even the Japanese, and even them come short compared to Europeans.

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  16. Let’s see how Yan Shen is going to spin this one. Oh right, déclassé generic Asians are not to be confused with the Chosen People of East Asia.

    Never mind that (1) a big chunk of foreign-born generic Asians are already East Asian and (2) carving out high-achieving South Asians would cut into the numerator as well.

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    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    Not too much to spin. What would the right numerator and denominator be for foreign born East Asians? What percent of foreign born European immigrants are Jewish? Also having not looked at what Steve cited, another question might be what categories of innovation they looked at. I suspect East Asians would be skewed towards certain fields. Keep in mind also that East Asians in America tend to be somewhat bimodal in terms of background. There have historically been a fair number of working class people from China who have come over to the US, along with self selected elites. All in all, given the relatively small samples involved, these numbers don't really raise any eyebrows in my opionion.

    See my earlier comments about how modern day engineering and technology is essentially a California and East Asian affair.

    , @Autochthon
    You had to invoke him, didn't you? You just couldn't help repearing "Beetlejuice."
    , @Anonymous
    Not really, if you really want to be triggered, its pretty accurate to state that innovation and creativity are bolstered with openness. Its almost certain that none of the "alt-right" at Unz will ever create anything in the media of worth. They tend to bash reality, but seem to blind to think /why/ reality turned out this way and spend much of their time seeking targets to blame.
    , @britishbrainsize1325cclol
    who the hell cares for inventions anyway do you think it has bettered mankind all its done is overpopulated the earth ,You guys can have your inventions we are secure in the knowledge thaat we have in us the Almighty EDAR gene which whitey especially degenerate britshit descended people are try ing to get.
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  17. @anonguy
    OT, but as I speculated recently, erectile dysfunction drugs played some role in the ability of skeevy old guys to actually act upon their fantasies:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-scandal-what-are-penile-injections-why-used-2017-12

    Not surprising. I looked at the guy and think overweight glutton at a minimum, those guys start having problems pretty early in life.

    It will be interesting to see if this is a factor in any more cases.

    Weinstein’s gluttony nearly killed him.

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  18. @Jack D
    Emmanuel Lubezki is not exactly a typical Mexican name. I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz. This is like the "African American" honor students who all turn out to be Igbos from Nigeria. Or his countrymen Carlos Salim and Salma Hayek who come from an ever further east Mexican province - Beirut. If you are talking about "real" Mexicans like the 99% of illegal aliens who are Mestizos with a high % of Amerindian blood, that .4% would be even lower.

    From Wikipedia:

    “Lubezki was born to a Jewish family in Mexico City, Mexico.”

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Judging by their names, those so-called Jews are substantially genetically Slavic and Germanic.

    And, like most Ashkenazi Jews, he is genetically part italian as well.

    Oh yeah, those impressive "Jewish" genes again....
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  19. @syonredux
    RE: Mexico and innovation:

    Mexico and the Nobel Prize.Mexico According to WIKIPEDIA, three people of Mexican origins have won a Nobel. In contrast, Canada has 23, and the USA has 306.

    Now, these figures are from WIKIPEDIA, so I’m sure that one could argue about the margins…but the overall portrait of Mexican achievement is pretty dire.

    How about Fields Medalists?:
    United States 12

    France 10

    Soviet Union (3) / Russia (6) 9

    United Kingdom 7

    Japan 3
    Belgium 2

    West Germany (1) / Germany (0) 1

    Australia 1

    British Hong Kong 1

    Finland 1

    Israel 1

    Italy 1

    Norway 1

    New Zealand 1

    Sweden 1

    Vietnam 1

    Iran 1

    Brazil 1

    (None Stateless) 1

    I’ve left out Manjul Bhargava. His background is complicated.

    So, Mexico has zero.And all of Latin America has exactly one, which ties them with New Zealand.


    So, I hope that no one is counting on the Latinx contributing much to STEM in Anglo-America.....

    All three are of upper class background and one, he who won for science and not “peace” or literature, could be reasonably called one of Mexico’s best sent to us: his academic posts have all been in the USA, and his son practices medicine in Boston.
    More of the same, please, but no more of those others, thank you.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Terrible attitude. No. No more of the same. I don't care if they are astronauts who write better than Shakespeare and cured the common cold.

    Mine to me. My own.

    Let me ask people like you this: George Clooney is a Hell of a handsome dude by all accounts. Charming and debonair, too. Even talented at what he does and very rich. You gonna let him live in your house and f**k your wife, then? I mean, he's not some grimy troglodyte, so, hey, what's the big deal?

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  20. @tomv
    Let's see how Yan Shen is going to spin this one. Oh right, déclassé generic Asians are not to be confused with the Chosen People of East Asia.

    Never mind that (1) a big chunk of foreign-born generic Asians are already East Asian and (2) carving out high-achieving South Asians would cut into the numerator as well.

    Not too much to spin. What would the right numerator and denominator be for foreign born East Asians? What percent of foreign born European immigrants are Jewish? Also having not looked at what Steve cited, another question might be what categories of innovation they looked at. I suspect East Asians would be skewed towards certain fields. Keep in mind also that East Asians in America tend to be somewhat bimodal in terms of background. There have historically been a fair number of working class people from China who have come over to the US, along with self selected elites. All in all, given the relatively small samples involved, these numbers don’t really raise any eyebrows in my opionion.

    See my earlier comments about how modern day engineering and technology is essentially a California and East Asian affair.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    The comment wherein you completely ignore the costs of research and development to create intellectual property then conveniently overlook its theft by Orientals to cobble together things a bit more cheaply than the actual inventors were able to? That comment?
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  21. @syonredux
    Via West Hunter, a map of the world scaled according to the production of scientific papers....


    https://westhunt.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/205.png


    Of course, quantity does not necessarily equal quality.....but I kinda doubt that Mexico is leading in terms of quality....


    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/zones-of-thought/

    The Falkland Islands (civilian pop ~3000?) is bigger than Argentina. Lol.

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    "The Falkland Islands (civilian pop ~3000?) is bigger than Argentina. Lol."

    They're being counted as part of Britain.
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  22. @J.Ross
    Mexico's recent waves appear to resemble those of Poland. Poland isn't that rich of a country, but lately it's had a lot going for it, especially compared to most of its European neighbors. So the classic image of immigrants flipped: Poles with skills stayed and got jobs that were often better than anything they could get abroad (plus being closer to home), and England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled. As a result the English have lately had an unfairly severe view of Poles. Mexico has similarly seen more skilled opportunities in-country, and their real-life-comic-book-evil elite view the Mariana Boatlift as a reasonable model for poverty alleviation.
    The irony of Guillermo Del Toro babbling about anti-immigrant racism is that this would never have been an issue if Del Toro was representative of recent immigration.

    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Part and parcel, sir.
    , @Yan Shen
    But uh good things happen when you have a skilled plumber around...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGQHQc_3ycE
    , @for-the-record
    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

    The unhappiness of Brits with Polish plumbers is from the competition they represent, not the quality of their work. My impression, based on friends/family in the UK, is that Polish workmen have a very good reputation, generally far superior to the UK "average".
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  23. @Logan
    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

    Part and parcel, sir.

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  24. @Logan
    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

    But uh good things happen when you have a skilled plumber around…

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    • Troll: Chrisnonymous
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  25. Until the 1930s Europe didn’t send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.

    I’m sure it sent plenty of people fleeing the courts, the bailiffs, and unhappy marriages.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Until the 1930s Europe didn’t send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.
     
    Dunno. The Puritan wave in the 1620s-40s was highly literate and largely middle-class in origin...then there are the Huguenots.....


    I'd gladly swap 12 million Latinx Mestizos for 20,000 middle-class Anglo-Saxons.....
    , @Alden
    Right about that.
    , @JerseyJeffersonian
    Well, not exactly. One half of my ancestry traces to one branch of one of the largest, most influential, and creative groups of immigrants whose aggregate immigration, well before your cut off date of the 1930s to 1950s, was quite massive, and on the whole quite salutary for the growth of the Republic. I speak of the Germans, in my own case, Pennsylvania Germans. Due to unfortunate events in the 20th Century, namely the two world wars (along with surrilous propaganda from the WASP contingent and their asshole buddies, the Jews), it became frowned upon to trumpet one's German ancestry. Maybe this article at Wikipedia might help flesh things out a bit?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans

    So no, we didn't just start arriving after 1930 or so, and we have been a pivotal population for a damn long time, from the times before there even was a United States.

    Other groups such as the Scotch-Irish were also quite important, along with groups such as the Dutch (New York, and in Northern New Jersey), the French (Huguenots for sure, but don't forget the influence of the French in what was Louisiana, some of whom were refugees from the British conquest of much of Canada [they helped Andrew Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans], and don't neglect to appreciate the impact of the Voyageurs in what later became the Northwest and still further west), all of these peoples having been here exerting a manifestly beneficial influence here well in advance of your supplied dates.

    So you might want to re-think this a bit.
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  26. Read More
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  27. @J.Ross
    Mexico's recent waves appear to resemble those of Poland. Poland isn't that rich of a country, but lately it's had a lot going for it, especially compared to most of its European neighbors. So the classic image of immigrants flipped: Poles with skills stayed and got jobs that were often better than anything they could get abroad (plus being closer to home), and England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled. As a result the English have lately had an unfairly severe view of Poles. Mexico has similarly seen more skilled opportunities in-country, and their real-life-comic-book-evil elite view the Mariana Boatlift as a reasonable model for poverty alleviation.
    The irony of Guillermo Del Toro babbling about anti-immigrant racism is that this would never have been an issue if Del Toro was representative of recent immigration.

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled

    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren’t any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don’t dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

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    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @jim jones
    The media manufacture anti-Polish sentiment to support the narrative that Brits are racist when in reality we are the most tolerant people on the planet
    , @Autochthon

    Are English people females really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops?
     
    Yes, Pedro; yes, they are. Whiskey has explained all this stuff better than I can, but, the hatred for attractive, feminine women is merely the opposite number of the lust for rapacious, swarthy degenerates from Africa, Asia, and South America, these shrieking harridans harbour. It's all back to feminism as such, female journalism, the outrage at sexy women able to sleep their way to the top, and so on: ambitious, but unsatisfied (because ugly and mannish) females in charge of the System and the Narrative lashing out.

    The classic example of the phenomenon is their treatment of Melania and Ivanka Trump. (No woman on the planet is viscerally threatened or jealous of Michelle Obama – her social status and money, maybe, but not the lizard-brain stuff that underlies it all at the end of the day, which is all about Becky's good hair....
    , @Jake
    Depends on the Englishman.

    There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior. There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics. A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.
    , @Lurker

    I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don’t dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.
     
    Absolutely right.
    , @J.Ross
    >anti-Pole sentiment is the establishment's caricature acknowledgement of immigration externalities
    I am very partial to this view, especially after the downright wierd -- and wierdly publicized -- attacks on Poles immediately after Brexit, but cannot confirm anything.
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  28. The Mexican government can probably barely believe its good luck (and wonder how the US maintains its standing with such leadership) when it comes to immigration. They offload tens of millions of low education/low skill workers who then send billions in remittances back to the mother country each year to pump up the Mexican economy, and Americans not only tolerate this but demand this phenomena go on unchecked. It’s 100% upside for Mexico.

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  29. @Peter Akuleyev

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled
     
    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren't any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don't dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

    The media manufacture anti-Polish sentiment to support the narrative that Brits are racist when in reality we are the most tolerant people on the planet

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    The media manufacture anti-Polish sentiment
     
    Q: What ethnicity is Santa Claus?
    A: North Polish!

    ; D
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  30. @Hail
    I notice that 35.5% of this Innovators list are foreign-born. Is innovation another of those pesky things Americans Just Won't Do?

    I notice that 35.5% of this Innovators list are foreign-born

    We do attract talented foreigners; this is often used to justify our current immigration miasma.

    But a few hundred innovators hardly justifies bringing in the village burners. Far better to the let the innovators do their wonderful work in their home countries, and we can then import the innovations.

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  31. Well, I’m finally reading Murray’s “Human Accomplishment” (which languished too long on my bookshelf) and this conversation certainly confirms the Lotka curve he uses to illustrate distribution of excellence. What’s an eye opener is that the same curve plots the distribution of excellence amongst those who have already been selected for excellence.

    Nature isn’t democratic.

    However, in the lifeboat of life, all are entitled to their fair share of water and biscuit.

    And there’s the rub.

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  32. @tomv
    Let's see how Yan Shen is going to spin this one. Oh right, déclassé generic Asians are not to be confused with the Chosen People of East Asia.

    Never mind that (1) a big chunk of foreign-born generic Asians are already East Asian and (2) carving out high-achieving South Asians would cut into the numerator as well.

    You had to invoke him, didn’t you? You just couldn’t help repearing “Beetlejuice.”

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  33. @Yan Shen
    Not too much to spin. What would the right numerator and denominator be for foreign born East Asians? What percent of foreign born European immigrants are Jewish? Also having not looked at what Steve cited, another question might be what categories of innovation they looked at. I suspect East Asians would be skewed towards certain fields. Keep in mind also that East Asians in America tend to be somewhat bimodal in terms of background. There have historically been a fair number of working class people from China who have come over to the US, along with self selected elites. All in all, given the relatively small samples involved, these numbers don't really raise any eyebrows in my opionion.

    See my earlier comments about how modern day engineering and technology is essentially a California and East Asian affair.

    The comment wherein you completely ignore the costs of research and development to create intellectual property then conveniently overlook its theft by Orientals to cobble together things a bit more cheaply than the actual inventors were able to? That comment?

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  34. @Old Palo Altan
    All three are of upper class background and one, he who won for science and not "peace" or literature, could be reasonably called one of Mexico's best sent to us: his academic posts have all been in the USA, and his son practices medicine in Boston.
    More of the same, please, but no more of those others, thank you.

    Terrible attitude. No. No more of the same. I don’t care if they are astronauts who write better than Shakespeare and cured the common cold.

    Mine to me. My own.

    Let me ask people like you this: George Clooney is a Hell of a handsome dude by all accounts. Charming and debonair, too. Even talented at what he does and very rich. You gonna let him live in your house and f**k your wife, then? I mean, he’s not some grimy troglodyte, so, hey, what’s the big deal?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Now that is a stupid, self-destroying attitude. Its essentially rejecting members of your coalition in favor of ethnic corruption.

    There is a reason why inclusive governments defeates ethnic clans and criminal organizations in the end. The sheer bulk of quantity and quality prevails in a modern world.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    You're equating some third-rate Left-wing moron of an actor with a Noble Prize winner in chemistry?

    Import the talented; export the stupid. Take in ten, throw out ten thousand. Over time, we'll have won.
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  35. Why would the worst plumbers come when a plumber makes 4x as much in the UK as he does back home?

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  36. @Peter Akuleyev

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled
     
    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren't any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don't dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

    Are English people females really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops?

    Yes, Pedro; yes, they are. Whiskey has explained all this stuff better than I can, but, the hatred for attractive, feminine women is merely the opposite number of the lust for rapacious, swarthy degenerates from Africa, Asia, and South America, these shrieking harridans harbour. It’s all back to feminism as such, female journalism, the outrage at sexy women able to sleep their way to the top, and so on: ambitious, but unsatisfied (because ugly and mannish) females in charge of the System and the Narrative lashing out.

    The classic example of the phenomenon is their treatment of Melania and Ivanka Trump. (No woman on the planet is viscerally threatened or jealous of Michelle Obama – her social status and money, maybe, but not the lizard-brain stuff that underlies it all at the end of the day, which is all about Becky’s good hair….

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  37. “But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.”

    That would be perfectly fine if Mexicans weren’t so easily used as ‘blacks-light’ in the Liberal culture war against white Middle America.

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  38. @Hail
    I notice that 35.5% of this Innovators list are foreign-born. Is innovation another of those pesky things Americans Just Won't Do?

    It doesn’t pay. You can be a brilliant engineer, and work your ass off 50 hours a week making 150k a year, or get into management and work 60 hour weeks managing huge projects for double that.

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.

    Or if you don’t mind working long hours, get into finance and earn much more than would a physician.

    This is why many innovators in the USA are from places such as China, India, or Eastern Europe.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.
     
    Do you wonder whether that will continue under socialized medicine? I do. When they want to cut costs, how long will it take to cut Doctors' salaries? IIRC that is what Britain did.
    , @E. Rekshun
    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k

    Getting accepted to a US medical school is very, very difficult. And if one gets in, the work load is crushing. Then the likelihood of getting accepted into one of the better, more lucrative specialties like dermatology is quite low.

    Nonetheless, if one is interested in medicine as a career, then it's still probably worth the effort. Failing to get into med school, podiatry or osteopathy would be a great alternative.

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  39. About 20 years ago or so, Some dope at Forbes magazine blatantly said the Mexican ruling class uses the export of of illegal alien Mestizos and Amerindians as a “safety valve” to prevent violent attacks on the plutocrats and ruling class of Mexico. The ruling class and plutocrats of Mexico are mostly non-Mestizo and non-Amerindian.

    Carlos Slim is a Middle Eastern Mexican who attacks the sovereignty of the United States, with full compliance of the ruling class of the United States, by pushing open borders mass immigration and illegal immigration from Mexico to the USA.

    The INNOVATION the Mexican ruling class is mostly known for is forestalling violent retaliatory bloodshed by the Mestizos and Amerindian majority of the Mexican population. That is some innovation. The question is why do treasonous rat members of the American Empire’s ruling class collude with the Mexican ruling class to flood the United States with Mexican Amerindians and Mexican Mestizos?

    The answer is the ruling class of the American Empire treasonously pushes sovereignty-sapping globalization and nation-wrecking open borders mass immigration.

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  40. @Peter Akuleyev

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled
     
    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren't any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don't dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

    Depends on the Englishman.

    There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior. There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics. A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    If so, those brits are fools. But then, most Muslims are.
    , @Ossettian
    "There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior."

    The English are minority Germanic and Slavs haven't mattered to us for most of our history because we didn't encounter them much.

    "There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics.

    By lots of them, do you mean hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands? I'm English and I've never met anyone I even suspected of thinking that. Irish Catholics are the most easily assimilated of immigrants, except for Irish Protestants like Graham Norton. My maternal grandfather was a Catholic from County Cork.

    "A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background."

    Again, how big is this "rather large number"? Again, why do I never meet these people?

    You're talking out of your arse.
    , @Lurker
    Utter nonsense. I've never met anyone who expressed that. Most people would happily trade all the black/brown/Muslim diversity for Poles, Irish.
    , @Anonymous
    The problem is that it's not just Polish plumbers who find life more lucrative in Britain than back home. Poland has also sent much of its criminal class to Britain. If you throw open your borders to all comers then you lose the ability to filter the good from the bad.
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  41. OT

    Richard Spencer is trying to arrange a date to speak at the Univ of Mich — the student paper there has a section called MIC = Michigan In Color, w/ contributions from students of color (naturally) — reading some of the pieces there is enlightening — link.

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  42. @Autochthon
    Terrible attitude. No. No more of the same. I don't care if they are astronauts who write better than Shakespeare and cured the common cold.

    Mine to me. My own.

    Let me ask people like you this: George Clooney is a Hell of a handsome dude by all accounts. Charming and debonair, too. Even talented at what he does and very rich. You gonna let him live in your house and f**k your wife, then? I mean, he's not some grimy troglodyte, so, hey, what's the big deal?

    Now that is a stupid, self-destroying attitude. Its essentially rejecting members of your coalition in favor of ethnic corruption.

    There is a reason why inclusive governments defeates ethnic clans and criminal organizations in the end. The sheer bulk of quantity and quality prevails in a modern world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    By your lights (and my ostensible stupidity) the peoples of multicultural (so called) Europe and North America are on track to overwhelm the diminishing peoples of India, China, and Africa Real Soon Now, and the ethnically homogeneous Greeks never stood a chance against the cosmopolitan Persian Empire.

    I hope you pay someone else to manage your investments....
    , @kihowi
    Your society will result in different groups of intelligent people intelligently battling each other and intelligently not cooperating.

    A functional society needs intelligence AND racial homogeneity, so all that intelligence is actually used in a constructive way.
    , @Whiskey
    Inclusive government?? Mexico 1820 inviting in Americans to hold Texas? The Irish inviting in Strongbow?

    If Mexico sent nothing but Sofia Vergara and Salma Hayek the Wall would be finished tomorrow.
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  43. @jimmyriddle
    The Falkland Islands (civilian pop ~3000?) is bigger than Argentina. Lol.

    “The Falkland Islands (civilian pop ~3000?) is bigger than Argentina. Lol.”

    They’re being counted as part of Britain.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    They are part of Britain – for precisely the reasons this post underscores.
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  44. @tomv
    Let's see how Yan Shen is going to spin this one. Oh right, déclassé generic Asians are not to be confused with the Chosen People of East Asia.

    Never mind that (1) a big chunk of foreign-born generic Asians are already East Asian and (2) carving out high-achieving South Asians would cut into the numerator as well.

    Not really, if you really want to be triggered, its pretty accurate to state that innovation and creativity are bolstered with openness. Its almost certain that none of the “alt-right” at Unz will ever create anything in the media of worth. They tend to bash reality, but seem to blind to think /why/ reality turned out this way and spend much of their time seeking targets to blame.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Its almost certain that none of the “alt-right” at Unz will ever create anything in the media of worth. They tend to bash reality, but seem to blind to think /why/ reality turned out this way and spend much of their time seeking targets to blame.
     
    Because people are drawn to lies that pander to their innermost desires. If you want an alt-right creative, Vox Day would fit the bill.
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  45. @syonredux

    But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.
     
    Whatever you do, don't tell Fred Reed......

    That’s Fred Reedriguez.

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  46. @Anonymous
    "This doesn’t mean that Mexico doesn’t have highly skilled and inventive individuals. For example, cameraman Emmanuel Lubezki won three straight Best Cinematography Oscars recently. He’s extremely innovative. But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people."

    His full name is Emmanuel Lubezki Morgenstern and he's Jewish. Now there's a layer of innovative people.

    He’s Slavic, Germanic, probably Italian, and Jewish, thank you very much. “Jews” ought to stop taking credit for their ample Germanic, Slavic, and Italian genes.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy

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  47. @Anonymous
    Now that is a stupid, self-destroying attitude. Its essentially rejecting members of your coalition in favor of ethnic corruption.

    There is a reason why inclusive governments defeates ethnic clans and criminal organizations in the end. The sheer bulk of quantity and quality prevails in a modern world.

    By your lights (and my ostensible stupidity) the peoples of multicultural (so called) Europe and North America are on track to overwhelm the diminishing peoples of India, China, and Africa Real Soon Now, and the ethnically homogeneous Greeks never stood a chance against the cosmopolitan Persian Empire.

    I hope you pay someone else to manage your investments….

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Time and era. And in many ways, yes, the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas and its in some same way that America ended up being dominant against Old Europe. Greece ultimately was indeed defeated by provincialism and they noted it themselves: against the flexibility of Roman political and military warfare, no amount of hide-bound Spartans would matter. What you probably haven't thought about is that everything has externalities and being closed off has severe negative externalities. It doesn't matter if your culture creates the best swordsmen, for example, when someone else comes up with guns. Rome lingered on for at least a few hundred more years by "elite replacing" themselves with Germanics.

    Its hard to see find examples of a first world country that doesn't try to practice in some ways an inclusive policy. Even examples like Japan, for example, are pretty open to entrance for highly educated candidates.

    I don't expect to change your mind and I don't want to. There is a certain kind of will to suicide. You embody it for all to see and you should continue to do so.

    Like many other doomed causes, it is still poetically beautiful.

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  48. @reiner Tor
    From Wikipedia:

    "Lubezki was born to a Jewish family in Mexico City, Mexico."

    Judging by their names, those so-called Jews are substantially genetically Slavic and Germanic.

    And, like most Ashkenazi Jews, he is genetically part italian as well.

    Oh yeah, those impressive “Jewish” genes again….

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The German rulers (Prussians and Habsburgs) as well as the Slavic (I think mostly Polish) rulers demanded of their Jewish subjects (who were I think the last to do so - according to Semitic custom, they used patronymics instead) to take on surnames, and they required them to do so in the official language of the realm. This meant German or Polish for most Jews in those areas.

    They received very few German or Slavic genes, almost all of their European genetic ancestry is coming from the Italians from the original admixture event some two millennia ago.
    , @Jack D
    Judging by their names, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, those so-called African-Americans are substantially genetically Anglo-Saxon.
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  49. The NYRB: Trump, Goethe, Hitler, Faust and Scottish golf-courses all hang together

    For a starter: Goethes Faust in Faust II threw the old and peaceful couple Philemon and Baucis out of their poor, but beautifully situated home near the sea – and Trump did practically the same thing to build a golf-course in Scotland.

    Then there is Nietzsche, saying, Goethe was a “superman” (=Übermensch), and Goethe adoring Hitler, aw, sorry: Adoring Napoleon. And a Nazi-tank-batallion in WW II was named after the German knight Götz von Berlichingen, about whom the young Goethes wrote a play (!) Etc., etc. etc.

    The last word of the article is – necessarily so – the name of the concentration camp: Buchenwald.

    The tragical Trump-Goethe-Hitler-Golf-courses intertwindedness is explained in full detail here:

    New-York-Review-of-Books
    Super Goethe
    Ferdinand Mount DECEMBER 21, 2017 ISSUE
    Goethe: Life as a Work of Art
    by Rüdiger Safranski, translated from the German by David Dollenmayer
    Liveright, 651 pp., $35.00

    PS
    One big chance the NYRB-author Ferdinand Mount left out: The German author of the Goehte-biography he dissects, Rüdiger safranski, is – like Trump, against unregulated immigration.
    He spoke numerous times against Merkel’s invite-the-world!-politics. Therefor, the problem runs even deeper, and hits world politics midships, in a way. Mount could have shown the following chain of despicableness and vileness: Nietzsche, Goehte, Hitler, Buchenwald, Trump, Safranski.

    PPS

    Rüdiger Safranskis Goethe bio is a great read – I highly recommend it.

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  50. @Jake
    Depends on the Englishman.

    There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior. There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics. A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.

    If so, those brits are fools. But then, most Muslims are.

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  51. @prosa123
    "The Falkland Islands (civilian pop ~3000?) is bigger than Argentina. Lol."

    They're being counted as part of Britain.

    They are part of Britain – for precisely the reasons this post underscores.

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  52. @Anonymous
    Not really, if you really want to be triggered, its pretty accurate to state that innovation and creativity are bolstered with openness. Its almost certain that none of the "alt-right" at Unz will ever create anything in the media of worth. They tend to bash reality, but seem to blind to think /why/ reality turned out this way and spend much of their time seeking targets to blame.

    Its almost certain that none of the “alt-right” at Unz will ever create anything in the media of worth. They tend to bash reality, but seem to blind to think /why/ reality turned out this way and spend much of their time seeking targets to blame.

    Because people are drawn to lies that pander to their innermost desires. If you want an alt-right creative, Vox Day would fit the bill.

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  53. @anonguy
    OT, but as I speculated recently, erectile dysfunction drugs played some role in the ability of skeevy old guys to actually act upon their fantasies:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-scandal-what-are-penile-injections-why-used-2017-12

    Not surprising. I looked at the guy and think overweight glutton at a minimum, those guys start having problems pretty early in life.

    It will be interesting to see if this is a factor in any more cases.

    “Head of andrology”. Never heard that word before. Study of male reproductive afflictions.

    Where does somebody’s head and heart have to be to go to the lengths this guy went to to have temporary sexual fulfillment? I think he needs a whole new syndrome named after him. Andrology syndrome.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I'm interested in the directions of causality:

    – Did an oversexed, obsessive urge lead to seeking out medical ways to physiologically enable the acts, or did the desire to cling to youthful virility and all it physiologically enables, via medical and pharmacological interventions, in turn lead to the oversexed, obsessive urges and depravity.

    I genuinely wonder how much research and data we have about this stuff, since the relevant details and treatments are fairly new and side-effects – especially those manifesting behaviorally – are often slow to be discovered....
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  54. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Autochthon
    By your lights (and my ostensible stupidity) the peoples of multicultural (so called) Europe and North America are on track to overwhelm the diminishing peoples of India, China, and Africa Real Soon Now, and the ethnically homogeneous Greeks never stood a chance against the cosmopolitan Persian Empire.

    I hope you pay someone else to manage your investments....

    Time and era. And in many ways, yes, the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas and its in some same way that America ended up being dominant against Old Europe. Greece ultimately was indeed defeated by provincialism and they noted it themselves: against the flexibility of Roman political and military warfare, no amount of hide-bound Spartans would matter. What you probably haven’t thought about is that everything has externalities and being closed off has severe negative externalities. It doesn’t matter if your culture creates the best swordsmen, for example, when someone else comes up with guns. Rome lingered on for at least a few hundred more years by “elite replacing” themselves with Germanics.

    Its hard to see find examples of a first world country that doesn’t try to practice in some ways an inclusive policy. Even examples like Japan, for example, are pretty open to entrance for highly educated candidates.

    I don’t expect to change your mind and I don’t want to. There is a certain kind of will to suicide. You embody it for all to see and you should continue to do so.

    Like many other doomed causes, it is still poetically beautiful.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I mention the antient Greeks in passing; you focus on them. I'm interested in your refutation of the overwhelming and rapidly accelerating colonisation, invasion, and subjugation of Europe and North America by clannish, ethnically cohesive Orientals, Hindoos, mestizos, and Semites who don't give a hoot in Hell for the vaunted cosmopolitan multiculturalism and all it is doing for the Europeans who embrace it. After all, it is the Current Year.

    (I could mention that Rome's downfall lay in its similar embrace of the other and abandonment of ethnic cohesion, if you want to continue with the classics. Each civilisation thrives as long as it remains its identify and unity, falling as it becomes a cosmopolitan, polyglot, ostensibly open-minded, and multicultural Utopia of the kind you endorse.)

    I am genuinely interested in how your theory applies to the Brown Deluge and the astonishing diminution – not to say impending extinction – of Europeans. Please don't make this "nanny nanny boo boo" and about us as individuals as too often happens in these discussions.
    , @MarkinLA
    the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas

    You don't have to accept other dissimilar people to be open to ideas. You mention Japan, what is so inclusive about letting in a few hundred scientists and engineers a year into a country of 127 million. How is that the same as letting in the 100s of thousands of the dregs of some third world dung heap in who will eventually go on our welfare system?

    With video and modern telecommunications, a lot of scientific research is being done in a distributed way. We don't even need to be there except for special circumstances.

    , @Anonymous
    Openness and tolerance are the consequences of wealth and power, not the cause of them. A poor and weak nation which is open and tolerant will be eaten alive. As white Americans decline in wealth and power they will become less open and tolerant - and rightly so. Anyone who tells them to do otherwise wishes them dead.
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  55. @RadicalCenter
    Judging by their names, those so-called Jews are substantially genetically Slavic and Germanic.

    And, like most Ashkenazi Jews, he is genetically part italian as well.

    Oh yeah, those impressive "Jewish" genes again....

    The German rulers (Prussians and Habsburgs) as well as the Slavic (I think mostly Polish) rulers demanded of their Jewish subjects (who were I think the last to do so – according to Semitic custom, they used patronymics instead) to take on surnames, and they required them to do so in the official language of the realm. This meant German or Polish for most Jews in those areas.

    They received very few German or Slavic genes, almost all of their European genetic ancestry is coming from the Italians from the original admixture event some two millennia ago.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Not according to both the family lore and the recent genetic tests of my many Jewish friends. They have indeed picked up Germanic and Slavic genes in many cases, not just adopted such names.

    My Jewish coworker did a genetic test just this year and it came back nearly one quarter Italian and nearly one quarter Slavic, though no Germanic. This is not atypical among North American "Jews."

    My best friend did a genetic test, as did his mother, who is "Jewish." She came back as more than half white european, mostly Slavic, less than half "Ashkenazi Jewish", and as little Middle Eastern as I am (almost none).

    The father of our family friends, who "looks Jewish" and is proud of his Jewish heritage, took genetic test and came back slightly Scandinavian (!), substantially Italian and German in that order, and again less than half "Ashkenazi" and not much Middle Eastern.

    For sure many Jews with german or Slavic names don't have a lot of Germanic or slavic genes, but many do. And most of them in both categories are noticeably Italian. As someone who is genetically Italian, Germanic, and Slavic, I say to those "uniquely intelligent and talented 'Jews', you're welcome" ;)
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  56. @Steve Sailer
    Yup.
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  57. @Anonymous
    Now that is a stupid, self-destroying attitude. Its essentially rejecting members of your coalition in favor of ethnic corruption.

    There is a reason why inclusive governments defeates ethnic clans and criminal organizations in the end. The sheer bulk of quantity and quality prevails in a modern world.

    Your society will result in different groups of intelligent people intelligently battling each other and intelligently not cooperating.

    A functional society needs intelligence AND racial homogeneity, so all that intelligence is actually used in a constructive way.

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    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Racial homogeneity is hardly the only hack for cooperation and indeed hasn't even been a great one, given how it keeps failing. Consider how successful the Jewish would have been if they kept purity signaling the exact percentage of "blood" as opposed to just using a straight up and simple matrilineal configuration.

    A highly tribalistic society doesn't select for intelligence; you get the Middle East when you choose for that. By all means, please pursue it.

    But worth noting, too, that the remains of the cosmopolitan Persian empire remained the only part of the ME besides Israel that remains capable of contributing to scientific development.
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  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Emmanuel Lubezki is not exactly a typical Mexican name. I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz. This is like the "African American" honor students who all turn out to be Igbos from Nigeria. Or his countrymen Carlos Salim and Salma Hayek who come from an ever further east Mexican province - Beirut. If you are talking about "real" Mexicans like the 99% of illegal aliens who are Mestizos with a high % of Amerindian blood, that .4% would be even lower.

    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative. They seem to be lack the ability to connect how openness and innovation are fundamentally affiliated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Creativity

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness, which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols. With the ever-decreasing importance of land to capital, the Jewish have become uniquely capable of handling modernity.

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    • Replies: @Lurker

    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive
     
    Do they?
    , @syonredux

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness,
     
    So, since Jews are the single most powerful group in contemporary America, should we expect a decline in their "openness?"
    , @AnotherDad
    What a bizarre comment.

    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative.
     
    This is an inversion. It's Jews who place the white, not-a-white game. Generally whites, especially since the War and extra especially Americans aren't supposed to even notice Jew/not-Jew and the ones who do and go around with the (((so-and-so))) are the ones least likely to claim Jewish stuff as white stuff.

    which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols.
     
    I honestly don't know how someone could write that with a straight face relative to white gentiles and the Ashkenazi. Judaism is nothing but a very tight "in-group" chock full of fetishes and symbols specifically to keep themselves separate from gentiles. Jews had to liberate themselves from traditional Judaism to engage with the modern world gentiles were creating. But even modern secularized Jewish ideologies--Marxism, Freudianism--like to have all this arcane language to create a Jewishy in-group vibe.

    While gentile society traditionally has all its own religious fetishes, the salient aspect of gentile society is its openness. Grinding down tribalism and creating these open nation states and relatively free flow of ideas in the modern age. (The crowning achievement being of course modern science.) The notable modern trend was actually the breaking down of social class "in groups" and creating just nations with "citizens".

    Finally--"aware of reality". The Jews are shrewd in commercial matters. But while Jews have made decent contributions to science, what's notable about overall Jewish intellectualizing is that it tends strongly toward theorizing--highly utopian and disconnected from reality. Great empiricists--outside of commercial matters--the Jews are certainly not. When it comes to politics and human affairs Anglo-Saxon empiricism has proven so much better--and much, much, much better guide to organizing decent societies--than Jewish theorizing.

    ~~

    Note, i'm not dissing your entire comment. No doubt you're on target on Jewish flexibility. Not landed the motto is "whatever makes a buck".

    And that Jews were well prepared for and have prospered after the industrial revolution as the key to wealth shifted from land to mobile capital is, I think, a sociological common place.

    But your comment overall ... wow. It's strange to me so many people have this bizarre need to cast Jews--clearly extremely tribal and precisely highly and successfully resistant down through the eons to the tribe breaking, nation making character of gentile society--as champions of "openness" or something. Weird.
    , @MarkinLA
    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness

    Jewish openness? I guess up really is down. The last thing a group of people need who have been kicked out of country after country for millennia but still maintain a sense of themselves and who they are is openness. The result of openness is dilution and that is clearly not something Jews are well known for.
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  59. One of many examples of President Obama’s dishonesty was that he would justify his open borders policy by observing that many great companies were started by immigrants:

    Think about it. We define ourselves as a nation of immigrants. That’s who we are, in our bones. The promise we see in those who come here from every corner of the globe, that’s always been one of our greatest strengths. It keeps our workforce young, it keeps our country on the cutting edge, and it’s helped build the greatest economic engine the world has ever known.

    After all, immigrants helped start businesses like Google and Yahoo. They created entire new industries that in turn created new jobs and new prosperity for our citizens.

    Of course, he couldn’t think of any great companies that were started by Mexicans or Latin Americans, vast numbers of whom he was determined to let in.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    One of many examples of President Obama’s dishonesty was that he would justify his open borders policy by observing that many great companies were started by immigrants:
     
    Obama's an idiot.

    The point isn't that no immigrants are capable of doing anything productive.

    The points are

    (1) Immigrants are less capable, on average, than native whites, and if we had native whites instead of immigrants we would have MORE good stuff;

    (2) To justify their presence, immigrants must be so much more productive than natives that they manage to increase natives' wealth despite (a) using resources that belong to natives and (b) voting to take the natives' wealth away from them;

    (3) The immigrants could have started these companies back home, unless, of course, native whites are superior to the immigrants' fellow countrymen; and

    (4) Cetera.

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  60. @Logan
    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

    The unhappiness of Brits with Polish plumbers is from the competition they represent, not the quality of their work. My impression, based on friends/family in the UK, is that Polish workmen have a very good reputation, generally far superior to the UK “average”.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    My impression, based on friends/family in the UK, is that Polish workmen have a very good reputation, generally far superior to the UK “average”.

    Remember that much of what is now Poland war earlier known as PRUSSIA.

    The electors of Brandenburg - a small territory inside the old "Holy Roman" German empire - had originally leased Prussia from the Polish crown. In time, Prussia became their most important holding and they retconned themselves as Kings of Prussia.

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  61. @Jake
    Depends on the Englishman.

    There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior. There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics. A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.

    “There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior.”

    The English are minority Germanic and Slavs haven’t mattered to us for most of our history because we didn’t encounter them much.

    “There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics.

    By lots of them, do you mean hundreds, thousands or hundreds of thousands? I’m English and I’ve never met anyone I even suspected of thinking that. Irish Catholics are the most easily assimilated of immigrants, except for Irish Protestants like Graham Norton. My maternal grandfather was a Catholic from County Cork.

    “A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.”

    Again, how big is this “rather large number”? Again, why do I never meet these people?

    You’re talking out of your arse.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  62. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @kihowi
    Your society will result in different groups of intelligent people intelligently battling each other and intelligently not cooperating.

    A functional society needs intelligence AND racial homogeneity, so all that intelligence is actually used in a constructive way.

    Racial homogeneity is hardly the only hack for cooperation and indeed hasn’t even been a great one, given how it keeps failing. Consider how successful the Jewish would have been if they kept purity signaling the exact percentage of “blood” as opposed to just using a straight up and simple matrilineal configuration.

    A highly tribalistic society doesn’t select for intelligence; you get the Middle East when you choose for that. By all means, please pursue it.

    But worth noting, too, that the remains of the cosmopolitan Persian empire remained the only part of the ME besides Israel that remains capable of contributing to scientific development.

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    • Replies: @kihowi
    What the hell are you even talking about? You sound confused.

    The middle east is a shithole because of low iqs and the racial disfunction of multiple races in the same country.

    In israel, japan and europe pre-immigration it does work because of high iqs and racial homogeneity in the same country. Not because they imported random foreigners with high iqs.

    Or you can define jews, Japanese and let's say victorian britons as not being a homogeneous race and then you're simply too kooky to have this conversation.

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  63. @tomv
    Let's see how Yan Shen is going to spin this one. Oh right, déclassé generic Asians are not to be confused with the Chosen People of East Asia.

    Never mind that (1) a big chunk of foreign-born generic Asians are already East Asian and (2) carving out high-achieving South Asians would cut into the numerator as well.

    who the hell cares for inventions anyway do you think it has bettered mankind all its done is overpopulated the earth ,You guys can have your inventions we are secure in the knowledge thaat we have in us the Almighty EDAR gene which whitey especially degenerate britshit descended people are try ing to get.

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  64. @stillCARealist
    "Head of andrology". Never heard that word before. Study of male reproductive afflictions.

    Where does somebody's head and heart have to be to go to the lengths this guy went to to have temporary sexual fulfillment? I think he needs a whole new syndrome named after him. Andrology syndrome.

    I’m interested in the directions of causality:

    – Did an oversexed, obsessive urge lead to seeking out medical ways to physiologically enable the acts, or did the desire to cling to youthful virility and all it physiologically enables, via medical and pharmacological interventions, in turn lead to the oversexed, obsessive urges and depravity.

    I genuinely wonder how much research and data we have about this stuff, since the relevant details and treatments are fairly new and side-effects – especially those manifesting behaviorally – are often slow to be discovered….

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Crazy people do crazy stuff, and crazy stuff makes people crazy. It's a feedback amplification loop. Why do some people obsess over drugs? They're susceptible and the drugs are really powerful.

    Don't start with any of this if you want a peaceful life. Lots of guys don't want peaceful lives.
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  65. @reiner Tor
    The German rulers (Prussians and Habsburgs) as well as the Slavic (I think mostly Polish) rulers demanded of their Jewish subjects (who were I think the last to do so - according to Semitic custom, they used patronymics instead) to take on surnames, and they required them to do so in the official language of the realm. This meant German or Polish for most Jews in those areas.

    They received very few German or Slavic genes, almost all of their European genetic ancestry is coming from the Italians from the original admixture event some two millennia ago.

    Not according to both the family lore and the recent genetic tests of my many Jewish friends. They have indeed picked up Germanic and Slavic genes in many cases, not just adopted such names.

    My Jewish coworker did a genetic test just this year and it came back nearly one quarter Italian and nearly one quarter Slavic, though no Germanic. This is not atypical among North American “Jews.”

    My best friend did a genetic test, as did his mother, who is “Jewish.” She came back as more than half white european, mostly Slavic, less than half “Ashkenazi Jewish”, and as little Middle Eastern as I am (almost none).

    The father of our family friends, who “looks Jewish” and is proud of his Jewish heritage, took genetic test and came back slightly Scandinavian (!), substantially Italian and German in that order, and again less than half “Ashkenazi” and not much Middle Eastern.

    For sure many Jews with german or Slavic names don’t have a lot of Germanic or slavic genes, but many do. And most of them in both categories are noticeably Italian. As someone who is genetically Italian, Germanic, and Slavic, I say to those “uniquely intelligent and talented ‘Jews’, you’re welcome” ;)

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Since Jewish heritage is matrilineal, can we surmise ancient "non-paternal" events, i.e. cuckoldry? (No offens meant)
    , @Anon
    None of these anecdotes actually happened. You are making up stories to bolster your opinions. Next time stop after the first anecdote . It's just not believe that you have so many Jewish friends , they all took dna tests , they all shared the result with you and none are really Jews. LoL. I would say nice try but that would be a lie.
    , @Jack D
    Anecdotes are not evidence. In actual population studies, Ashkenazi Jews (not mischlinge) have very little German or Slav admixture. There was early (i.e. Roman times) admixture with Italian women when the Jews first arrived in Europe but very little mixing after that. Keep in mind that the founding population of Ashkenazi Jews was very small - possibly only a handful of people.

    I don't think that modern Americans, who screw everything in sight regardless of race, creed or color, can fully imagine the degree of social isolation that existed in Europe which made mixing between groups unthinkable.
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  66. @Anonymous
    Time and era. And in many ways, yes, the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas and its in some same way that America ended up being dominant against Old Europe. Greece ultimately was indeed defeated by provincialism and they noted it themselves: against the flexibility of Roman political and military warfare, no amount of hide-bound Spartans would matter. What you probably haven't thought about is that everything has externalities and being closed off has severe negative externalities. It doesn't matter if your culture creates the best swordsmen, for example, when someone else comes up with guns. Rome lingered on for at least a few hundred more years by "elite replacing" themselves with Germanics.

    Its hard to see find examples of a first world country that doesn't try to practice in some ways an inclusive policy. Even examples like Japan, for example, are pretty open to entrance for highly educated candidates.

    I don't expect to change your mind and I don't want to. There is a certain kind of will to suicide. You embody it for all to see and you should continue to do so.

    Like many other doomed causes, it is still poetically beautiful.

    I mention the antient Greeks in passing; you focus on them. I’m interested in your refutation of the overwhelming and rapidly accelerating colonisation, invasion, and subjugation of Europe and North America by clannish, ethnically cohesive Orientals, Hindoos, mestizos, and Semites who don’t give a hoot in Hell for the vaunted cosmopolitan multiculturalism and all it is doing for the Europeans who embrace it. After all, it is the Current Year.

    (I could mention that Rome’s downfall lay in its similar embrace of the other and abandonment of ethnic cohesion, if you want to continue with the classics. Each civilisation thrives as long as it remains its identify and unity, falling as it becomes a cosmopolitan, polyglot, ostensibly open-minded, and multicultural Utopia of the kind you endorse.)

    I am genuinely interested in how your theory applies to the Brown Deluge and the astonishing diminution – not to say impending extinction – of Europeans. Please don’t make this “nanny nanny boo boo” and about us as individuals as too often happens in these discussions.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You're intentionally trying to miss a point. Civilizations and people die, if you want to put it like that: its what they do. Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan, its likely that it would have died even sooner, and Emperor Claudius wrote about this in detail:

    "What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? Our founder Romulus, on the other hand, was so wise that he fought as enemies and then hailed as fellow-citizens several nations on the very same day. Strangers have reigned over us..... But, it will be said, we have fought with the Senones. I suppose then that the Volsci and Aequi never stood in array against us. Our city was taken by the Gauls. Well, we also gave hostages to the Etruscans, and passed under the yoke of the Samnites... Thenceforth they have preserved an unbroken and loyal peace. United as they now are with us by manners, education, and intermarriage, let them bring us their gold and their wealth rather than enjoy it in isolation."

    So you would say, let's do as the others did and resist all inclusion! Well, yes. Let's see, where are the Assyrians now? They still exist, as a fringe tribe in the ME. Hooray. Or the Spartans, who demanded pure bloodlines from their families? They're gone. Almost completely gone with perhaps a possible splinter of the Tsakones(who may not be genetically related).

    As it is, your "cucked Rome" maintained an identity(of sorts), spread their language and resurrected in at least in a nominal way in modern nation-states of Europe(Hispania, Italia, etc.) in order to lend "ancient" legitimacy to what was at the time, basically artificial groupings of land(Nationalism was, at the time, essentially a leftist concept). Frankly, the best that can be hoped in a civilization is for ideas to remain.

    But all means, obsess over your precious bodily fluids and protect them from those who would steal them. Share the fate of Assyria. For someone who claims to know about history..heh.

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "Each civilisation thrives as long as it remains its identify and unity, falling as it becomes a cosmopolitan, polyglot, ostensibly open-minded, and multicultural Utopia of the kind you endorse."

    This is a major theme of Glubb Pasha's book "The Fate Of Empires", which Steve Hsu was quoting just the other day.

    https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/11/remarks-on-decline-of-american-empire.html

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  67. @RadicalCenter
    Judging by their names, those so-called Jews are substantially genetically Slavic and Germanic.

    And, like most Ashkenazi Jews, he is genetically part italian as well.

    Oh yeah, those impressive "Jewish" genes again....

    Judging by their names, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, those so-called African-Americans are substantially genetically Anglo-Saxon.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    You seem to have taken my point to be nearly the opposite of what it was. Amuse yourself.

    I didn't imply that Jews must be substantially Germanic or Slavic merely because they have such names. They are substantially Germanic or Slavic because genetic tests prove it to be the case, without regard to their names.

    Re-read the part where I noted that some Jews merely adopted Germanic and Slavic names without having much in the way of Germanic or Slavic genes, while many others actually ARE genetically Germanic and Slavic.

    As for Jews being Italian, I know hardly any self-identified Jews who have Italian family names. Yet the genetic evidence is strong that a great number of so-called (Ashkenazi) Jews have a meaningful Italian genetic contribution.

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  68. Again, as I said on the previous post on this paper, the vast bulk of patents are not innovation and don’t reflect innovation. They reflect long term stagnation within certain very large stodgy corporations that file for patents on every memo that might persuade the uncritical and badly overworked Patent Office bureaucrats not to resist issuing one.

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    • Replies: @syonredux
    Hey, whatever makes you feel better....
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  69. Even if a demographic group lacks innovation or scores low on standardized tests or loses sporting competitions, or statistics show high crime rates and bad breath… ignore or sympathize with or help them correct their failures. Absolutely acknowledge factual reality, but still maintain a constructive, kind, productive ethos.

    This post veers into meanness.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Life is a zero-sum game. The weak should not be allowed to drag down the strong. Let them swim - 0r sink.

    The world is cruel. Deal with it.
    , @Whiskey
    You either put the boot in or someone else puts it in on you. Fighting, all the time every time is the only hope for survival.

    Best to be feared. It arouses women and cautions men.
    , @MarkinLA
    help them correct their failures.

    What do you think all the wasted money on various programs have been trying to do for the past 50 years. Given the continuing failure of these programs, isn't the best thing to keep any more of them from coming in?
    , @Brutusale
    So the NAM community is just a bunch of warrior-poets waiting to be nurtured? Do you feel the same way about poor whites and Asians?
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  70. @Peter Akuleyev

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled
     
    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren't any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don't dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

    I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don’t dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

    Absolutely right.

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  71. @Jake
    Depends on the Englishman.

    There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior. There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics. A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.

    Utter nonsense. I’ve never met anyone who expressed that. Most people would happily trade all the black/brown/Muslim diversity for Poles, Irish.

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  72. @Anonymous
    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative. They seem to be lack the ability to connect how openness and innovation are fundamentally affiliated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Creativity

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness, which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols. With the ever-decreasing importance of land to capital, the Jewish have become uniquely capable of handling modernity.

    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive

    Do they?

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    As a white European of Italian, Germanic, and Slavic background, I am indeed proud of the achievements of the genetically Italian / Germanic / Slavic people known as "Jews." But tired of them acting like they are some totally unique separate group that is so special and "better than the goys." Genetically, many of them ARE freaking goyim.

    They benefit from their ancestors having acquired en masse the intelligence, creativity, and (by our lights) the general aesthetic attractiveness of white Europeans, then say, "look how impressive we 'jews' are."

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  73. @dearieme
    Until the 1930s Europe didn't send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.

    I'm sure it sent plenty of people fleeing the courts, the bailiffs, and unhappy marriages.

    Until the 1930s Europe didn’t send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.

    Dunno. The Puritan wave in the 1620s-40s was highly literate and largely middle-class in origin…then there are the Huguenots…..

    I’d gladly swap 12 million Latinx Mestizos for 20,000 middle-class Anglo-Saxons…..

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    The Huguenots managed to help Prussia recoup its losses after Frederick the Great's wars. Even today, plenty of aristocratic German families with roots in former eastern territories like Silesia have French sounding names.

    I've got nothing against immigration that makes sense. In the right place and time, with the right migrants, it can be a much needed transfusion of new blood and creativity for the national gene pool. The problem is that our current immigration policies are completely nonsensical. The last we need right now is more people in general, given the coming economic issues of the 21st Century. This isn't the early 20th Century-and current levels of migration might even be outstripping that. "Diversity" doesn't pay the bills or help cure intractable socioeconomic issues.

    We need to figure out what we are going to do with the tens of millions of Americans who are going to be unemployable, and how we are going to pay for it all, before we move on to other issues, whether it is engaging in military conflicts or admitting millions more newcomers. Last thing we need right now, already with a welfare state that is straining at the seams, budget-wise (yet still manages, somehow, to be vastly inferior to any other developed nation's), is tens of millions of more low-skilled laborers who we can't even account for and will likely be unemployable in the long run as well. Especially if they cause ethnic tensions, which they almost certainly will thanks to a toxic brew of multiple factors.

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  74. @Anonymous
    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative. They seem to be lack the ability to connect how openness and innovation are fundamentally affiliated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Creativity

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness, which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols. With the ever-decreasing importance of land to capital, the Jewish have become uniquely capable of handling modernity.

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness,

    So, since Jews are the single most powerful group in contemporary America, should we expect a decline in their “openness?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No, its a competitive advantage in a non-land based economy, which is the modern economy.
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  75. @Anonymous
    Racial homogeneity is hardly the only hack for cooperation and indeed hasn't even been a great one, given how it keeps failing. Consider how successful the Jewish would have been if they kept purity signaling the exact percentage of "blood" as opposed to just using a straight up and simple matrilineal configuration.

    A highly tribalistic society doesn't select for intelligence; you get the Middle East when you choose for that. By all means, please pursue it.

    But worth noting, too, that the remains of the cosmopolitan Persian empire remained the only part of the ME besides Israel that remains capable of contributing to scientific development.

    What the hell are you even talking about? You sound confused.

    The middle east is a shithole because of low iqs and the racial disfunction of multiple races in the same country.

    In israel, japan and europe pre-immigration it does work because of high iqs and racial homogeneity in the same country. Not because they imported random foreigners with high iqs.

    Or you can define jews, Japanese and let’s say victorian britons as not being a homogeneous race and then you’re simply too kooky to have this conversation.

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  76. @(((Owen)))
    Again, as I said on the previous post on this paper, the vast bulk of patents are not innovation and don't reflect innovation. They reflect long term stagnation within certain very large stodgy corporations that file for patents on every memo that might persuade the uncritical and badly overworked Patent Office bureaucrats not to resist issuing one.

    Hey, whatever makes you feel better….

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  77. @syonredux

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness,
     
    So, since Jews are the single most powerful group in contemporary America, should we expect a decline in their "openness?"

    No, its a competitive advantage in a non-land based economy, which is the modern economy.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    No, its a competitive advantage in a non-land based economy, which is the modern economy.
     
    Gotcha.....Jews are eternally "open"....at least in the Diaspora.......things seem a tad closed in Israel....
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  78. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Autochthon
    I mention the antient Greeks in passing; you focus on them. I'm interested in your refutation of the overwhelming and rapidly accelerating colonisation, invasion, and subjugation of Europe and North America by clannish, ethnically cohesive Orientals, Hindoos, mestizos, and Semites who don't give a hoot in Hell for the vaunted cosmopolitan multiculturalism and all it is doing for the Europeans who embrace it. After all, it is the Current Year.

    (I could mention that Rome's downfall lay in its similar embrace of the other and abandonment of ethnic cohesion, if you want to continue with the classics. Each civilisation thrives as long as it remains its identify and unity, falling as it becomes a cosmopolitan, polyglot, ostensibly open-minded, and multicultural Utopia of the kind you endorse.)

    I am genuinely interested in how your theory applies to the Brown Deluge and the astonishing diminution – not to say impending extinction – of Europeans. Please don't make this "nanny nanny boo boo" and about us as individuals as too often happens in these discussions.

    You’re intentionally trying to miss a point. Civilizations and people die, if you want to put it like that: its what they do. Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan, its likely that it would have died even sooner, and Emperor Claudius wrote about this in detail:

    “What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? Our founder Romulus, on the other hand, was so wise that he fought as enemies and then hailed as fellow-citizens several nations on the very same day. Strangers have reigned over us….. But, it will be said, we have fought with the Senones. I suppose then that the Volsci and Aequi never stood in array against us. Our city was taken by the Gauls. Well, we also gave hostages to the Etruscans, and passed under the yoke of the Samnites… Thenceforth they have preserved an unbroken and loyal peace. United as they now are with us by manners, education, and intermarriage, let them bring us their gold and their wealth rather than enjoy it in isolation.”

    So you would say, let’s do as the others did and resist all inclusion! Well, yes. Let’s see, where are the Assyrians now? They still exist, as a fringe tribe in the ME. Hooray. Or the Spartans, who demanded pure bloodlines from their families? They’re gone. Almost completely gone with perhaps a possible splinter of the Tsakones(who may not be genetically related).

    As it is, your “cucked Rome” maintained an identity(of sorts), spread their language and resurrected in at least in a nominal way in modern nation-states of Europe(Hispania, Italia, etc.) in order to lend “ancient” legitimacy to what was at the time, basically artificial groupings of land(Nationalism was, at the time, essentially a leftist concept). Frankly, the best that can be hoped in a civilization is for ideas to remain.

    But all means, obsess over your precious bodily fluids and protect them from those who would steal them. Share the fate of Assyria. For someone who claims to know about history..heh.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan,
     
    Trajan wasn't German:

    Marcus Ulpius Traianus was born on 18 September 53 AD in the Roman province of Hispania Baetica[10] (in what is now Andalusia in modern Spain), in the city of Italica (now in the municipal area of Santiponce, in the outskirts of Seville). Although frequently designated the first provincial emperor, and dismissed by later writers such as Cassius Dio (himself of provincial origin) as "an Iberian, and neither an Italian nor even an Italiot", Trajan appears to have hailed on his father's side from the area of Tuder (modern Todi) in Umbria, at the border with Etruria, and on his mother's side from the Gens Marcia, of an Italic family of Sabine origin. Trajan's birthplace of Italica was founded as a Roman military colony of Italian settlers in 206 BC, though it is unknown when the Ulpii arrived there. It is possible, but cannot be substantiated, that Trajan's ancestors married local women and lost their citizenship at some point, but they certainly recovered their status when the city became a municipium with Latin citizenship in the mid-1st century BC.[11][12]

    Trajan was the son of Marcia, a Roman noblewoman and sister-in-law of the second Flavian Emperor Titus,[13] and Marcus Ulpius Traianus, a prominent senator and general from the gens Ulpia. Marcus Ulpius Traianus the elder served Vespasian in the First Jewish-Roman War, commanding the Legio X Fretensis.[14] Trajan himself was just one of many well-known Ulpii in a line that continued long after his own death. His elder sister was Ulpia Marciana, and his niece was Salonina Matidia. The patria of the Ulpii was Italica, in Spanish Baetica,[10] where their ancestors had settled late in the 3rd century BC.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan
    , @Autochthon
    You offer a lot of sarcastic personal attacks here in light of my overtures for civility. Thanks.

    Let me try one last time to pose my question: Being open and inclusive (by your terms) has, for Europeans and our diaspora in Australia, North America, and so on – led to skyrocketing populations of the "included" peoples, astounding success by them at displacing the "includers" via invasion, colonisation, immigration (call it what you want) and all while demanding and convincing those "includers" to defile, renounce, and detest their own cultures, ancestors, and co-ethnics; themselves even. Meanwhile the includers' numbers plummet. The included – what I call the Brown Deluge – all the while smugly cling to their ways, exclude others, permit no colonisation, invasion, etc.

    Lest this all be too abstract, some concrete examples:

    One cannot demand a ballot in English in Tijuana (you go to gaol for that kind of shit), but the Mexicans arrogantly march through the streets in what used to be the U.S.A. and insult Americans, demanding this and that. It is scandalous to forbid one's daughter to marry a Jew, but Jews casually refuse to date gentiles and are accepted, even lauded for it. India and China forbid foreigners from owning realty, and subsidise education for their own, yet they gobble up acres of prime land in Europe and America, then occupy slots in those lands' graduate schools, often displacing from classroom and work Europeans and Americans who cannot compete at the wages offered because burdened by educational debt themselves (eventually, entire occupations and industries are controlled by the foreigners). A disparaging word to an obnoxious Arab lands one in the clink, but that same Arab, with his goons, is permitted to rape with impunity, or to claim an entire neighborhood or city and effectively exclude the native European stock.

    Please apply your theory that inclusion strengthens societies and maintaining one's identity is the path to doom, using Sweden and Japan as case studies.

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  79. @dearieme
    Until the 1930s Europe didn't send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.

    I'm sure it sent plenty of people fleeing the courts, the bailiffs, and unhappy marriages.

    Right about that.

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  80. Clearly coming to the United States on a plane or ship makes people more creative than if they come overland.

    Are the Canadians sending us their best? Pam Anderson, Alex Trebek? Why can’t Americans do what they do?

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    • Replies: @Perspective
    Samantha Bee drags the Canadian innovation average down - way down.
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  81. The North American Free Trade Agreement — NAFTA — has sent Amerindian Mexicans and Mestizo Mexicans to the United States in an invasionary mob while sending corn syrup and investment dollars from the USA to Mexico to get the remaining Mexicans hooked on fatty foods that bloat out the Mexicans.

    NAFTA flooded Mexico with cheap corn and corn syrup. Mexicans of Amerindian and Mestizo ancestry who used to grow corn were economically displaced by the cheap corn. Many of the Mexicans then invaded the United States.

    The evil ruling class of the USA colluded with the ruling class in Mexico to smooth the way for the Mexicans to flood north. George W Bush treasonously allowed the illegal alien invader Mexicans to take construction jobs in the USA during the US housing bubble, thereby lowering wages for US workers or replacing them completely.

    President Trump must terminate NAFTA and deport every illegal alien invader in the USA.

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  82. @Anonymous
    No, its a competitive advantage in a non-land based economy, which is the modern economy.

    No, its a competitive advantage in a non-land based economy, which is the modern economy.

    Gotcha…..Jews are eternally “open”….at least in the Diaspora…….things seem a tad closed in Israel….

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  83. @Autochthon
    I'm interested in the directions of causality:

    – Did an oversexed, obsessive urge lead to seeking out medical ways to physiologically enable the acts, or did the desire to cling to youthful virility and all it physiologically enables, via medical and pharmacological interventions, in turn lead to the oversexed, obsessive urges and depravity.

    I genuinely wonder how much research and data we have about this stuff, since the relevant details and treatments are fairly new and side-effects – especially those manifesting behaviorally – are often slow to be discovered....

    Crazy people do crazy stuff, and crazy stuff makes people crazy. It’s a feedback amplification loop. Why do some people obsess over drugs? They’re susceptible and the drugs are really powerful.

    Don’t start with any of this if you want a peaceful life. Lots of guys don’t want peaceful lives.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    A wise assessment I endorse wholeheartedly. However, I am – and I wish others were – academically and scientifically curious what unforeseen, Frankenstein's monsters we are creating with modern drugs and treatments for libido and virility in men who have (quite naturally and normally) lost those traits due to age simply running its course.

    It used to be medicine was necessarily about alleviating injuries and ailments one can readily agree were somehow abnormal or unnatural: unfortunate, unfair, or maladaptive (even if genetic, like myopia). Now, though, entirely too much of it is focused on "treatments" for the universal, inevitable, and perfectly natural malady (so called) of age and mortality.

    I'm no Luddite or prude about science, but a lot of folks who are overlooking or willfully ignoring the ethical questions could stand to read Jurassic Park, Tuck Everlasting, The Vampire Lestat, etc.
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  84. @Anonymous
    You're intentionally trying to miss a point. Civilizations and people die, if you want to put it like that: its what they do. Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan, its likely that it would have died even sooner, and Emperor Claudius wrote about this in detail:

    "What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? Our founder Romulus, on the other hand, was so wise that he fought as enemies and then hailed as fellow-citizens several nations on the very same day. Strangers have reigned over us..... But, it will be said, we have fought with the Senones. I suppose then that the Volsci and Aequi never stood in array against us. Our city was taken by the Gauls. Well, we also gave hostages to the Etruscans, and passed under the yoke of the Samnites... Thenceforth they have preserved an unbroken and loyal peace. United as they now are with us by manners, education, and intermarriage, let them bring us their gold and their wealth rather than enjoy it in isolation."

    So you would say, let's do as the others did and resist all inclusion! Well, yes. Let's see, where are the Assyrians now? They still exist, as a fringe tribe in the ME. Hooray. Or the Spartans, who demanded pure bloodlines from their families? They're gone. Almost completely gone with perhaps a possible splinter of the Tsakones(who may not be genetically related).

    As it is, your "cucked Rome" maintained an identity(of sorts), spread their language and resurrected in at least in a nominal way in modern nation-states of Europe(Hispania, Italia, etc.) in order to lend "ancient" legitimacy to what was at the time, basically artificial groupings of land(Nationalism was, at the time, essentially a leftist concept). Frankly, the best that can be hoped in a civilization is for ideas to remain.

    But all means, obsess over your precious bodily fluids and protect them from those who would steal them. Share the fate of Assyria. For someone who claims to know about history..heh.

    Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan,

    Trajan wasn’t German:

    Marcus Ulpius Traianus was born on 18 September 53 AD in the Roman province of Hispania Baetica[10] (in what is now Andalusia in modern Spain), in the city of Italica (now in the municipal area of Santiponce, in the outskirts of Seville). Although frequently designated the first provincial emperor, and dismissed by later writers such as Cassius Dio (himself of provincial origin) as “an Iberian, and neither an Italian nor even an Italiot”, Trajan appears to have hailed on his father’s side from the area of Tuder (modern Todi) in Umbria, at the border with Etruria, and on his mother’s side from the Gens Marcia, of an Italic family of Sabine origin. Trajan’s birthplace of Italica was founded as a Roman military colony of Italian settlers in 206 BC, though it is unknown when the Ulpii arrived there. It is possible, but cannot be substantiated, that Trajan’s ancestors married local women and lost their citizenship at some point, but they certainly recovered their status when the city became a municipium with Latin citizenship in the mid-1st century BC.[11][12]

    Trajan was the son of Marcia, a Roman noblewoman and sister-in-law of the second Flavian Emperor Titus,[13] and Marcus Ulpius Traianus, a prominent senator and general from the gens Ulpia. Marcus Ulpius Traianus the elder served Vespasian in the First Jewish-Roman War, commanding the Legio X Fretensis.[14] Trajan himself was just one of many well-known Ulpii in a line that continued long after his own death. His elder sister was Ulpia Marciana, and his niece was Salonina Matidia. The patria of the Ulpii was Italica, in Spanish Baetica,[10] where their ancestors had settled late in the 3rd century BC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The overall point, as stated by Emperor Claudius, remains. A quick rundown here goes into the other Emperors as well:

    http://historum.com/ancient-history/19034-national-ethnic-origins-roman-emperors.html

    Hadrian - Picenine Italian (family had settled in Spanish Baetica)

    Antoninus Pius - Gaulish (born in Latium)

    Marcus Aurelius - Gaulish and Spanish

    Commodus - Gaulish and Spanish (born in Rome)

    Pertinax - unknown (family of slave origins)

    Julianus - unknown, probably Roman Italian

    Albinus - Italian

    Pescennius Niger - Roman Italian

    Septimius Severus - Carthaginian and Celtic

    Caracalla - Carthaginian, Celtic, and Syrian

    Macrinus - Italian (family had settled in Punic Africa)

    Elagabalus - Syrian

    Severus Alexander - Syrian

    Maximinus Thrax - probably Dacian (supposedly Thracian and Sarmatian)

    The Gordiani - unknown (probably mixed Italian, African, and Asian)

    Philip the Arab - Mesopotamian or Syrian Arab
     
    , @nebulafox
    The first German emperor would be Maximinus Thrax, some 100+ years later. It is true that he didn't work out so well. But nevertheless, after Domitian's assassination, native born Italian emperors were the exception rather than the rule. Of course, at first, guys like Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, and Septimius Severus were all pretty Romanized. But after the Crisis of the Third Century, it'd be tough Illyrian peasant-soldiers like Aurelian, Diocletian, and Constantine who'd revive the Empire, not the irreconcilably softened dwellers of Rome. I don't subscribe to Gibbon's thesis that the decline of martial vigor on the part of the native Romans was the whole story, but neither was it nothing like a lot of modern commentators would have it, either.

    That's ultimately why they moved away from Rome as an administrative center: you think these hard army dictators were going to cater to a bunch of spoiled Italian Senators who *used* to be something? (That attitude was already prevalent with Severus, whose contempt for a corrupt Senate rivaled Domitian's.) Pre-eminance in any multi-ethnic empire, anywhere in history, for some ethnic group is to be earned if it is to be kept in the long run. For a time, the successive generations might be able to live off the accomplishments of their elders, but the coffer eventually always run out. When it does, either another ethnic group will supplant them, or the empire will collapse.

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  85. This doesn’t mean that Mexico doesn’t have highly skilled and inventive individuals. For example, cameraman Emmanuel Lubezki won three straight Best Cinematography Oscars recently. He’s extremely innovative. But mostly Mexico is not a culture that inculcates innovation, and Mexican immigrants aren’t generally from the thin layer of innovative people.

    As you’ve noted, Hollywood gets immigration right. If Mexico has a great Jewish cinematographer, they import him….but they don’t see the need to simultaneously import millions of Mestizo/Amerind peons….

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  86. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan,
     
    Trajan wasn't German:

    Marcus Ulpius Traianus was born on 18 September 53 AD in the Roman province of Hispania Baetica[10] (in what is now Andalusia in modern Spain), in the city of Italica (now in the municipal area of Santiponce, in the outskirts of Seville). Although frequently designated the first provincial emperor, and dismissed by later writers such as Cassius Dio (himself of provincial origin) as "an Iberian, and neither an Italian nor even an Italiot", Trajan appears to have hailed on his father's side from the area of Tuder (modern Todi) in Umbria, at the border with Etruria, and on his mother's side from the Gens Marcia, of an Italic family of Sabine origin. Trajan's birthplace of Italica was founded as a Roman military colony of Italian settlers in 206 BC, though it is unknown when the Ulpii arrived there. It is possible, but cannot be substantiated, that Trajan's ancestors married local women and lost their citizenship at some point, but they certainly recovered their status when the city became a municipium with Latin citizenship in the mid-1st century BC.[11][12]

    Trajan was the son of Marcia, a Roman noblewoman and sister-in-law of the second Flavian Emperor Titus,[13] and Marcus Ulpius Traianus, a prominent senator and general from the gens Ulpia. Marcus Ulpius Traianus the elder served Vespasian in the First Jewish-Roman War, commanding the Legio X Fretensis.[14] Trajan himself was just one of many well-known Ulpii in a line that continued long after his own death. His elder sister was Ulpia Marciana, and his niece was Salonina Matidia. The patria of the Ulpii was Italica, in Spanish Baetica,[10] where their ancestors had settled late in the 3rd century BC.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan

    The overall point, as stated by Emperor Claudius, remains. A quick rundown here goes into the other Emperors as well:

    http://historum.com/ancient-history/19034-national-ethnic-origins-roman-emperors.html

    Hadrian – Picenine Italian (family had settled in Spanish Baetica)

    Antoninus Pius – Gaulish (born in Latium)

    Marcus Aurelius – Gaulish and Spanish

    Commodus – Gaulish and Spanish (born in Rome)

    Pertinax – unknown (family of slave origins)

    Julianus – unknown, probably Roman Italian

    Albinus – Italian

    Pescennius Niger – Roman Italian

    Septimius Severus – Carthaginian and Celtic

    Caracalla – Carthaginian, Celtic, and Syrian

    Macrinus – Italian (family had settled in Punic Africa)

    Elagabalus – Syrian

    Severus Alexander – Syrian

    Maximinus Thrax – probably Dacian (supposedly Thracian and Sarmatian)

    The Gordiani – unknown (probably mixed Italian, African, and Asian)

    Philip the Arab – Mesopotamian or Syrian Arab

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  87. @J.Ross
    Mexico's recent waves appear to resemble those of Poland. Poland isn't that rich of a country, but lately it's had a lot going for it, especially compared to most of its European neighbors. So the classic image of immigrants flipped: Poles with skills stayed and got jobs that were often better than anything they could get abroad (plus being closer to home), and England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled. As a result the English have lately had an unfairly severe view of Poles. Mexico has similarly seen more skilled opportunities in-country, and their real-life-comic-book-evil elite view the Mariana Boatlift as a reasonable model for poverty alleviation.
    The irony of Guillermo Del Toro babbling about anti-immigrant racism is that this would never have been an issue if Del Toro was representative of recent immigration.

    It’s only superseded by the irony of Mexican creole elites criticizing American workers for racism, while they do everything in their power to get as many of the darker-skinned proles (who they openly despise. Mexican society in general is highly “Eurocentric” and classist in a way that would make American liberals gape in awe) across the border. Releases economic pressure on themselves and the threat of revolution, plus billions of tax-free remittances.

    As for the US? Well, it helps oligarchs, petty plutocrats, and the intellectuals in the upper-middle class attain the freedom and independence of their Latin American counterparts, which they are pretty enthusiastic about. The rest of the US… well, who cares about blacks and deplorables, yeah? Plus legal working class immigrants.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html

    Anybody who thinks the Mexican government isn’t willing to baldly lie to ensure that Mexican oligarchs don’t get their pockets filled, or is in any way, shape or form some heroic anti-racist crusader, doesn’t know the first thing about how politics in Mexico works or the history or economic structure of the place. Ramos and all their ilk? European descended criollos, the whole lot of them-these people are the descendents of the guys who enslaved the whole wretched place, kvetching about the “privilege” of white Americans who make a fraction of what they do.

    PS:

    Then, of course, there is the little matter of how Mexico treats its *own* illegal immigrants from Central America….

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  88. @Autochthon
    Terrible attitude. No. No more of the same. I don't care if they are astronauts who write better than Shakespeare and cured the common cold.

    Mine to me. My own.

    Let me ask people like you this: George Clooney is a Hell of a handsome dude by all accounts. Charming and debonair, too. Even talented at what he does and very rich. You gonna let him live in your house and f**k your wife, then? I mean, he's not some grimy troglodyte, so, hey, what's the big deal?

    You’re equating some third-rate Left-wing moron of an actor with a Noble Prize winner in chemistry?

    Import the talented; export the stupid. Take in ten, throw out ten thousand. Over time, we’ll have won.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You are missing my point or else ignoring it.

    Over time, we'll have Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine.

    Better than Brownsville? Sure. Khinshasa? Absolutely. But I don't consider handing my patrimony over to aliens desirable, be those aliens ever so clever or orderly.

    The antagonists in V, Starship Troopers, and Oblivion were even more sophisticated than the garrisons in Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine, but I suppose I'd be fighting them to the death while perhaps you would cheerily welcome them.

    If you consider that winning, I hate to think what losing is.

    My most charitable suspicion is you are one of the douche-nozzle boomers who doesn't understand supply and demand for jobs and housing because, "Hey! My employees keep getting cheaper and more docile while my house's value keeps appreciating. Posterity? Bah! Kids are just lazy and entitled nowadays!"
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  89. @syonredux

    Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan,
     
    Trajan wasn't German:

    Marcus Ulpius Traianus was born on 18 September 53 AD in the Roman province of Hispania Baetica[10] (in what is now Andalusia in modern Spain), in the city of Italica (now in the municipal area of Santiponce, in the outskirts of Seville). Although frequently designated the first provincial emperor, and dismissed by later writers such as Cassius Dio (himself of provincial origin) as "an Iberian, and neither an Italian nor even an Italiot", Trajan appears to have hailed on his father's side from the area of Tuder (modern Todi) in Umbria, at the border with Etruria, and on his mother's side from the Gens Marcia, of an Italic family of Sabine origin. Trajan's birthplace of Italica was founded as a Roman military colony of Italian settlers in 206 BC, though it is unknown when the Ulpii arrived there. It is possible, but cannot be substantiated, that Trajan's ancestors married local women and lost their citizenship at some point, but they certainly recovered their status when the city became a municipium with Latin citizenship in the mid-1st century BC.[11][12]

    Trajan was the son of Marcia, a Roman noblewoman and sister-in-law of the second Flavian Emperor Titus,[13] and Marcus Ulpius Traianus, a prominent senator and general from the gens Ulpia. Marcus Ulpius Traianus the elder served Vespasian in the First Jewish-Roman War, commanding the Legio X Fretensis.[14] Trajan himself was just one of many well-known Ulpii in a line that continued long after his own death. His elder sister was Ulpia Marciana, and his niece was Salonina Matidia. The patria of the Ulpii was Italica, in Spanish Baetica,[10] where their ancestors had settled late in the 3rd century BC.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan

    The first German emperor would be Maximinus Thrax, some 100+ years later. It is true that he didn’t work out so well. But nevertheless, after Domitian’s assassination, native born Italian emperors were the exception rather than the rule. Of course, at first, guys like Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, and Septimius Severus were all pretty Romanized. But after the Crisis of the Third Century, it’d be tough Illyrian peasant-soldiers like Aurelian, Diocletian, and Constantine who’d revive the Empire, not the irreconcilably softened dwellers of Rome. I don’t subscribe to Gibbon’s thesis that the decline of martial vigor on the part of the native Romans was the whole story, but neither was it nothing like a lot of modern commentators would have it, either.

    That’s ultimately why they moved away from Rome as an administrative center: you think these hard army dictators were going to cater to a bunch of spoiled Italian Senators who *used* to be something? (That attitude was already prevalent with Severus, whose contempt for a corrupt Senate rivaled Domitian’s.) Pre-eminance in any multi-ethnic empire, anywhere in history, for some ethnic group is to be earned if it is to be kept in the long run. For a time, the successive generations might be able to live off the accomplishments of their elders, but the coffer eventually always run out. When it does, either another ethnic group will supplant them, or the empire will collapse.

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    Ah, correction: Thrax wasn't German. He was fighting against the Germans when his men bumped off Severus Alexander.
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  90. @syonredux

    Until the 1930s Europe didn’t send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.
     
    Dunno. The Puritan wave in the 1620s-40s was highly literate and largely middle-class in origin...then there are the Huguenots.....


    I'd gladly swap 12 million Latinx Mestizos for 20,000 middle-class Anglo-Saxons.....

    The Huguenots managed to help Prussia recoup its losses after Frederick the Great’s wars. Even today, plenty of aristocratic German families with roots in former eastern territories like Silesia have French sounding names.

    I’ve got nothing against immigration that makes sense. In the right place and time, with the right migrants, it can be a much needed transfusion of new blood and creativity for the national gene pool. The problem is that our current immigration policies are completely nonsensical. The last we need right now is more people in general, given the coming economic issues of the 21st Century. This isn’t the early 20th Century-and current levels of migration might even be outstripping that. “Diversity” doesn’t pay the bills or help cure intractable socioeconomic issues.

    We need to figure out what we are going to do with the tens of millions of Americans who are going to be unemployable, and how we are going to pay for it all, before we move on to other issues, whether it is engaging in military conflicts or admitting millions more newcomers. Last thing we need right now, already with a welfare state that is straining at the seams, budget-wise (yet still manages, somehow, to be vastly inferior to any other developed nation’s), is tens of millions of more low-skilled laborers who we can’t even account for and will likely be unemployable in the long run as well. Especially if they cause ethnic tensions, which they almost certainly will thanks to a toxic brew of multiple factors.

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    • Replies: @Disordered
    +100.
    not to mention, the millions of immigrants leave their home countries screwed, with only the elites that can afford to live there and rule, and the powerless masses who cannot afford to leave nor change things. this dystopian future is already seen in Central America (El Salvador). after some of that societal destruction happens in several countries, I imagine that eventually someone will say "let's send a pacifying mission to those countries, just a few hundred troops on advisory role...". thus the Cold War will keep returning, this time without ideological pretense, and all about spheres of influence. today it's Putin, tomorrow it's Chairman Xi.
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  91. This post will make Fred very, very unhappy.

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  92. @nebulafox
    The first German emperor would be Maximinus Thrax, some 100+ years later. It is true that he didn't work out so well. But nevertheless, after Domitian's assassination, native born Italian emperors were the exception rather than the rule. Of course, at first, guys like Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, and Septimius Severus were all pretty Romanized. But after the Crisis of the Third Century, it'd be tough Illyrian peasant-soldiers like Aurelian, Diocletian, and Constantine who'd revive the Empire, not the irreconcilably softened dwellers of Rome. I don't subscribe to Gibbon's thesis that the decline of martial vigor on the part of the native Romans was the whole story, but neither was it nothing like a lot of modern commentators would have it, either.

    That's ultimately why they moved away from Rome as an administrative center: you think these hard army dictators were going to cater to a bunch of spoiled Italian Senators who *used* to be something? (That attitude was already prevalent with Severus, whose contempt for a corrupt Senate rivaled Domitian's.) Pre-eminance in any multi-ethnic empire, anywhere in history, for some ethnic group is to be earned if it is to be kept in the long run. For a time, the successive generations might be able to live off the accomplishments of their elders, but the coffer eventually always run out. When it does, either another ethnic group will supplant them, or the empire will collapse.

    Ah, correction: Thrax wasn’t German. He was fighting against the Germans when his men bumped off Severus Alexander.

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  93. @Autochthon
    I mention the antient Greeks in passing; you focus on them. I'm interested in your refutation of the overwhelming and rapidly accelerating colonisation, invasion, and subjugation of Europe and North America by clannish, ethnically cohesive Orientals, Hindoos, mestizos, and Semites who don't give a hoot in Hell for the vaunted cosmopolitan multiculturalism and all it is doing for the Europeans who embrace it. After all, it is the Current Year.

    (I could mention that Rome's downfall lay in its similar embrace of the other and abandonment of ethnic cohesion, if you want to continue with the classics. Each civilisation thrives as long as it remains its identify and unity, falling as it becomes a cosmopolitan, polyglot, ostensibly open-minded, and multicultural Utopia of the kind you endorse.)

    I am genuinely interested in how your theory applies to the Brown Deluge and the astonishing diminution – not to say impending extinction – of Europeans. Please don't make this "nanny nanny boo boo" and about us as individuals as too often happens in these discussions.

    “Each civilisation thrives as long as it remains its identify and unity, falling as it becomes a cosmopolitan, polyglot, ostensibly open-minded, and multicultural Utopia of the kind you endorse.”

    This is a major theme of Glubb Pasha’s book “The Fate Of Empires”, which Steve Hsu was quoting just the other day.

    https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/11/remarks-on-decline-of-american-empire.html

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  94. @Massimo Heitor
    Even if a demographic group lacks innovation or scores low on standardized tests or loses sporting competitions, or statistics show high crime rates and bad breath... ignore or sympathize with or help them correct their failures. Absolutely acknowledge factual reality, but still maintain a constructive, kind, productive ethos.

    This post veers into meanness.

    Life is a zero-sum game. The weak should not be allowed to drag down the strong. Let them swim – 0r sink.

    The world is cruel. Deal with it.

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  95. @Jack D
    Emmanuel Lubezki is not exactly a typical Mexican name. I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz. This is like the "African American" honor students who all turn out to be Igbos from Nigeria. Or his countrymen Carlos Salim and Salma Hayek who come from an ever further east Mexican province - Beirut. If you are talking about "real" Mexicans like the 99% of illegal aliens who are Mestizos with a high % of Amerindian blood, that .4% would be even lower.

    I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz.

    LOL. Well done.

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  96. @Anonymous
    Now that is a stupid, self-destroying attitude. Its essentially rejecting members of your coalition in favor of ethnic corruption.

    There is a reason why inclusive governments defeates ethnic clans and criminal organizations in the end. The sheer bulk of quantity and quality prevails in a modern world.

    Inclusive government?? Mexico 1820 inviting in Americans to hold Texas? The Irish inviting in Strongbow?

    If Mexico sent nothing but Sofia Vergara and Salma Hayek the Wall would be finished tomorrow.

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  97. @Massimo Heitor
    Even if a demographic group lacks innovation or scores low on standardized tests or loses sporting competitions, or statistics show high crime rates and bad breath... ignore or sympathize with or help them correct their failures. Absolutely acknowledge factual reality, but still maintain a constructive, kind, productive ethos.

    This post veers into meanness.

    You either put the boot in or someone else puts it in on you. Fighting, all the time every time is the only hope for survival.

    Best to be feared. It arouses women and cautions men.

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  98. @RadicalCenter
    Not according to both the family lore and the recent genetic tests of my many Jewish friends. They have indeed picked up Germanic and Slavic genes in many cases, not just adopted such names.

    My Jewish coworker did a genetic test just this year and it came back nearly one quarter Italian and nearly one quarter Slavic, though no Germanic. This is not atypical among North American "Jews."

    My best friend did a genetic test, as did his mother, who is "Jewish." She came back as more than half white european, mostly Slavic, less than half "Ashkenazi Jewish", and as little Middle Eastern as I am (almost none).

    The father of our family friends, who "looks Jewish" and is proud of his Jewish heritage, took genetic test and came back slightly Scandinavian (!), substantially Italian and German in that order, and again less than half "Ashkenazi" and not much Middle Eastern.

    For sure many Jews with german or Slavic names don't have a lot of Germanic or slavic genes, but many do. And most of them in both categories are noticeably Italian. As someone who is genetically Italian, Germanic, and Slavic, I say to those "uniquely intelligent and talented 'Jews', you're welcome" ;)

    Since Jewish heritage is matrilineal, can we surmise ancient “non-paternal” events, i.e. cuckoldry? (No offens meant)

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  99. @stillCARealist
    Crazy people do crazy stuff, and crazy stuff makes people crazy. It's a feedback amplification loop. Why do some people obsess over drugs? They're susceptible and the drugs are really powerful.

    Don't start with any of this if you want a peaceful life. Lots of guys don't want peaceful lives.

    A wise assessment I endorse wholeheartedly. However, I am – and I wish others were – academically and scientifically curious what unforeseen, Frankenstein’s monsters we are creating with modern drugs and treatments for libido and virility in men who have (quite naturally and normally) lost those traits due to age simply running its course.

    It used to be medicine was necessarily about alleviating injuries and ailments one can readily agree were somehow abnormal or unnatural: unfortunate, unfair, or maladaptive (even if genetic, like myopia). Now, though, entirely too much of it is focused on “treatments” for the universal, inevitable, and perfectly natural malady (so called) of age and mortality.

    I’m no Luddite or prude about science, but a lot of folks who are overlooking or willfully ignoring the ethical questions could stand to read Jurassic Park, Tuck Everlasting, The Vampire Lestat, etc.

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  100. @Anonymous
    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative. They seem to be lack the ability to connect how openness and innovation are fundamentally affiliated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Creativity

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness, which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols. With the ever-decreasing importance of land to capital, the Jewish have become uniquely capable of handling modernity.

    What a bizarre comment.

    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative.

    This is an inversion. It’s Jews who place the white, not-a-white game. Generally whites, especially since the War and extra especially Americans aren’t supposed to even notice Jew/not-Jew and the ones who do and go around with the (((so-and-so))) are the ones least likely to claim Jewish stuff as white stuff.

    which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols.

    I honestly don’t know how someone could write that with a straight face relative to white gentiles and the Ashkenazi. Judaism is nothing but a very tight “in-group” chock full of fetishes and symbols specifically to keep themselves separate from gentiles. Jews had to liberate themselves from traditional Judaism to engage with the modern world gentiles were creating. But even modern secularized Jewish ideologies–Marxism, Freudianism–like to have all this arcane language to create a Jewishy in-group vibe.

    While gentile society traditionally has all its own religious fetishes, the salient aspect of gentile society is its openness. Grinding down tribalism and creating these open nation states and relatively free flow of ideas in the modern age. (The crowning achievement being of course modern science.) The notable modern trend was actually the breaking down of social class “in groups” and creating just nations with “citizens”.

    Finally–”aware of reality”. The Jews are shrewd in commercial matters. But while Jews have made decent contributions to science, what’s notable about overall Jewish intellectualizing is that it tends strongly toward theorizing–highly utopian and disconnected from reality. Great empiricists–outside of commercial matters–the Jews are certainly not. When it comes to politics and human affairs Anglo-Saxon empiricism has proven so much better–and much, much, much better guide to organizing decent societies–than Jewish theorizing.

    ~~

    Note, i’m not dissing your entire comment. No doubt you’re on target on Jewish flexibility. Not landed the motto is “whatever makes a buck”.

    And that Jews were well prepared for and have prospered after the industrial revolution as the key to wealth shifted from land to mobile capital is, I think, a sociological common place.

    But your comment overall … wow. It’s strange to me so many people have this bizarre need to cast Jews–clearly extremely tribal and precisely highly and successfully resistant down through the eons to the tribe breaking, nation making character of gentile society–as champions of “openness” or something. Weird.

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  101. @Anonymous
    You're intentionally trying to miss a point. Civilizations and people die, if you want to put it like that: its what they do. Had Rome not allowed the German emperors such as Trajan, its likely that it would have died even sooner, and Emperor Claudius wrote about this in detail:

    "What was the ruin of Sparta and Athens, but this, that mighty as they were in war, they spurned from them as aliens those whom they had conquered? Our founder Romulus, on the other hand, was so wise that he fought as enemies and then hailed as fellow-citizens several nations on the very same day. Strangers have reigned over us..... But, it will be said, we have fought with the Senones. I suppose then that the Volsci and Aequi never stood in array against us. Our city was taken by the Gauls. Well, we also gave hostages to the Etruscans, and passed under the yoke of the Samnites... Thenceforth they have preserved an unbroken and loyal peace. United as they now are with us by manners, education, and intermarriage, let them bring us their gold and their wealth rather than enjoy it in isolation."

    So you would say, let's do as the others did and resist all inclusion! Well, yes. Let's see, where are the Assyrians now? They still exist, as a fringe tribe in the ME. Hooray. Or the Spartans, who demanded pure bloodlines from their families? They're gone. Almost completely gone with perhaps a possible splinter of the Tsakones(who may not be genetically related).

    As it is, your "cucked Rome" maintained an identity(of sorts), spread their language and resurrected in at least in a nominal way in modern nation-states of Europe(Hispania, Italia, etc.) in order to lend "ancient" legitimacy to what was at the time, basically artificial groupings of land(Nationalism was, at the time, essentially a leftist concept). Frankly, the best that can be hoped in a civilization is for ideas to remain.

    But all means, obsess over your precious bodily fluids and protect them from those who would steal them. Share the fate of Assyria. For someone who claims to know about history..heh.

    You offer a lot of sarcastic personal attacks here in light of my overtures for civility. Thanks.

    Let me try one last time to pose my question: Being open and inclusive (by your terms) has, for Europeans and our diaspora in Australia, North America, and so on – led to skyrocketing populations of the “included” peoples, astounding success by them at displacing the “includers” via invasion, colonisation, immigration (call it what you want) and all while demanding and convincing those “includers” to defile, renounce, and detest their own cultures, ancestors, and co-ethnics; themselves even. Meanwhile the includers’ numbers plummet. The included – what I call the Brown Deluge – all the while smugly cling to their ways, exclude others, permit no colonisation, invasion, etc.

    Lest this all be too abstract, some concrete examples:

    One cannot demand a ballot in English in Tijuana (you go to gaol for that kind of shit), but the Mexicans arrogantly march through the streets in what used to be the U.S.A. and insult Americans, demanding this and that. It is scandalous to forbid one’s daughter to marry a Jew, but Jews casually refuse to date gentiles and are accepted, even lauded for it. India and China forbid foreigners from owning realty, and subsidise education for their own, yet they gobble up acres of prime land in Europe and America, then occupy slots in those lands’ graduate schools, often displacing from classroom and work Europeans and Americans who cannot compete at the wages offered because burdened by educational debt themselves (eventually, entire occupations and industries are controlled by the foreigners). A disparaging word to an obnoxious Arab lands one in the clink, but that same Arab, with his goons, is permitted to rape with impunity, or to claim an entire neighborhood or city and effectively exclude the native European stock.

    Please apply your theory that inclusion strengthens societies and maintaining one’s identity is the path to doom, using Sweden and Japan as case studies.

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  102. Essentially all modern innovation is the product of the Anglo-Germanic peoples or the institutions they created. When we consider Chinese or Indians who rank as innovators, how many of them received their advanced education in China or India then came to the U.S.? Of the 923 individuals, perhaps a dozen, a half dozen, one or two, or any at all?

    Anglo-Germans, their civilizations in general and in particular their military, corporate and educational institutions are wildly, overwhelmingly superior to all that came before, so much so that serious people need concern themselves with little else when contemplating this world apart from their families and livelihoods.

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  103. @AP
    It doesn't pay. You can be a brilliant engineer, and work your ass off 50 hours a week making 150k a year, or get into management and work 60 hour weeks managing huge projects for double that.

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.

    Or if you don't mind working long hours, get into finance and earn much more than would a physician.

    This is why many innovators in the USA are from places such as China, India, or Eastern Europe.

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.

    Do you wonder whether that will continue under socialized medicine? I do. When they want to cut costs, how long will it take to cut Doctors’ salaries? IIRC that is what Britain did.

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    • Replies: @AP
    AMA is a very powerful lobby (in some ways, acting as a union). Also, I suspect that in Britain the National Health Service didn't cut physicians' salaries, it just prevented them from growing as they did in the USA over the last 50+ years. That's probably easier to do than to slash salaries for a lot of wealthy, organized and politically connected people.

    The way salaries will get eroded is by having PAs who earn less do more of the work. But PAs also make decent money (150k a year) and don't work as hard as do engineers.
    , @MarkinLa
    Under functioning socialized medicine, you also remove malpractice insurance, removing a significant cost to practice. You also remove the arcane billing practices. Bad doctors would not be tolerated under a functioning system and would quickly lose their license to practice. Compensation for the small amount for malpractice would be handled by government disability insurance.

    Notice, I said functioning. Whether you get a functioning system or not is the question.
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  104. @Old Palo Altan
    You're equating some third-rate Left-wing moron of an actor with a Noble Prize winner in chemistry?

    Import the talented; export the stupid. Take in ten, throw out ten thousand. Over time, we'll have won.

    You are missing my point or else ignoring it.

    Over time, we’ll have Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine.

    Better than Brownsville? Sure. Khinshasa? Absolutely. But I don’t consider handing my patrimony over to aliens desirable, be those aliens ever so clever or orderly.

    The antagonists in V, Starship Troopers, and Oblivion were even more sophisticated than the garrisons in Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine, but I suppose I’d be fighting them to the death while perhaps you would cheerily welcome them.

    If you consider that winning, I hate to think what losing is.

    My most charitable suspicion is you are one of the douche-nozzle boomers who doesn’t understand supply and demand for jobs and housing because, “Hey! My employees keep getting cheaper and more docile while my house’s value keeps appreciating. Posterity? Bah! Kids are just lazy and entitled nowadays!”

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    I'm one of those "douche-nozzle boomers", but I also remember coming home from work one night during summer break from college and finding my dad having a snack in the kitchen while writing checks. Even in 1980 I was surprised by the $172 mortgage payment.

    That house that he bought in 1972 for $39K sold in 1990 for $360K. Nice return on investment, huh?
    , @Old Palo Altan
    I'm amused by your film references: Oblivion I've never heard of, but, to tell the honest truth, I did cheer the V invaders on. After all, the humans were a particulalry rebarbative bunch of southern Californians - Valley types in fact.
    But Starship Troopers? Certainly not. Why would I support a bunch of insects (the other) against an obviously fascistic Aryan state? Truly one of my favorite films.
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  105. @dearieme
    Until the 1930s Europe didn't send its best either; for gentiles, probably not until the 1950s.

    I'm sure it sent plenty of people fleeing the courts, the bailiffs, and unhappy marriages.

    Well, not exactly. One half of my ancestry traces to one branch of one of the largest, most influential, and creative groups of immigrants whose aggregate immigration, well before your cut off date of the 1930s to 1950s, was quite massive, and on the whole quite salutary for the growth of the Republic. I speak of the Germans, in my own case, Pennsylvania Germans. Due to unfortunate events in the 20th Century, namely the two world wars (along with surrilous propaganda from the WASP contingent and their asshole buddies, the Jews), it became frowned upon to trumpet one’s German ancestry. Maybe this article at Wikipedia might help flesh things out a bit?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans

    So no, we didn’t just start arriving after 1930 or so, and we have been a pivotal population for a damn long time, from the times before there even was a United States.

    Other groups such as the Scotch-Irish were also quite important, along with groups such as the Dutch (New York, and in Northern New Jersey), the French (Huguenots for sure, but don’t forget the influence of the French in what was Louisiana, some of whom were refugees from the British conquest of much of Canada [they helped Andrew Jackson at the Battle of New Orleans], and don’t neglect to appreciate the impact of the Voyageurs in what later became the Northwest and still further west), all of these peoples having been here exerting a manifestly beneficial influence here well in advance of your supplied dates.

    So you might want to re-think this a bit.

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  106. @Anonymous
    Time and era. And in many ways, yes, the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas and its in some same way that America ended up being dominant against Old Europe. Greece ultimately was indeed defeated by provincialism and they noted it themselves: against the flexibility of Roman political and military warfare, no amount of hide-bound Spartans would matter. What you probably haven't thought about is that everything has externalities and being closed off has severe negative externalities. It doesn't matter if your culture creates the best swordsmen, for example, when someone else comes up with guns. Rome lingered on for at least a few hundred more years by "elite replacing" themselves with Germanics.

    Its hard to see find examples of a first world country that doesn't try to practice in some ways an inclusive policy. Even examples like Japan, for example, are pretty open to entrance for highly educated candidates.

    I don't expect to change your mind and I don't want to. There is a certain kind of will to suicide. You embody it for all to see and you should continue to do so.

    Like many other doomed causes, it is still poetically beautiful.

    the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas

    You don’t have to accept other dissimilar people to be open to ideas. You mention Japan, what is so inclusive about letting in a few hundred scientists and engineers a year into a country of 127 million. How is that the same as letting in the 100s of thousands of the dregs of some third world dung heap in who will eventually go on our welfare system?

    With video and modern telecommunications, a lot of scientific research is being done in a distributed way. We don’t even need to be there except for special circumstances.

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  107. @Anonymous
    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive, but also find them to be the best scapegoats for anything negative. They seem to be lack the ability to connect how openness and innovation are fundamentally affiliated.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Creativity

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness, which meant that they had to be flexible and aware of reality, whereas most of the other ethnic groupings, being closely affiliated with land were increasingly focused on creating in-groups through fetishes and symbols. With the ever-decreasing importance of land to capital, the Jewish have become uniquely capable of handling modernity.

    I think the reasons why the Jewish were so capable of such openness was due to their relative political powerlessness

    Jewish openness? I guess up really is down. The last thing a group of people need who have been kicked out of country after country for millennia but still maintain a sense of themselves and who they are is openness. The result of openness is dilution and that is clearly not something Jews are well known for.

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  108. @Massimo Heitor
    Even if a demographic group lacks innovation or scores low on standardized tests or loses sporting competitions, or statistics show high crime rates and bad breath... ignore or sympathize with or help them correct their failures. Absolutely acknowledge factual reality, but still maintain a constructive, kind, productive ethos.

    This post veers into meanness.

    help them correct their failures.

    What do you think all the wasted money on various programs have been trying to do for the past 50 years. Given the continuing failure of these programs, isn’t the best thing to keep any more of them from coming in?

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  109. @syonredux
    And the Mexicans who have been here for a really long time aren't doing so hot....

    Here are the National Merit finalists for the Albuquerque Public Schools system, for 2018:

    Cibola High School
    Gage Boman, Michael Kiesling

    Del Norte High School
    Benjamin Cochran

    Eldorado High School
    Maria Anna Cheshire, Caroline Pineda, Nicolas Savignon, Todd Snow

    La Cueva High School
    Thomas Brown, Gabriel Cuneo, Kaan Dokmeci, Matthew Eck, Emma Hazard, Akshay Jain, Abigail Jones, Nicholas Justice, Brandon Limary, Siddharth Namachivayam, Daniel Ndibongo, Megan Tran, Elizabeth Vaughan

    Manzano High School
    Emily Clarke

    Volcano Vista High School
    Naomi Rankin, Matthew Sanchez

    Again, the Hispanics and Amerindians, that make up more than two thirds of the students, don’t show up much. I forget why they were supposed to. It’s not happening in California, either.

     

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/

    I guess that Ron's "Super-Flynn" savior hasn't worked his IQ voodoo yet....

    I believe that only about 45% of Obama’s DREAMERs actually have graduated from high school. How is that for a special class of people that need Congress to drop everything and grant amnesty right now?

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  110. @Jack D
    Emmanuel Lubezki is not exactly a typical Mexican name. I think his ancestors came from the easternmost part of Mexico like maybe Warsaw or Lodz. This is like the "African American" honor students who all turn out to be Igbos from Nigeria. Or his countrymen Carlos Salim and Salma Hayek who come from an ever further east Mexican province - Beirut. If you are talking about "real" Mexicans like the 99% of illegal aliens who are Mestizos with a high % of Amerindian blood, that .4% would be even lower.

    At least +1 just for the geography.

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  111. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Not according to both the family lore and the recent genetic tests of my many Jewish friends. They have indeed picked up Germanic and Slavic genes in many cases, not just adopted such names.

    My Jewish coworker did a genetic test just this year and it came back nearly one quarter Italian and nearly one quarter Slavic, though no Germanic. This is not atypical among North American "Jews."

    My best friend did a genetic test, as did his mother, who is "Jewish." She came back as more than half white european, mostly Slavic, less than half "Ashkenazi Jewish", and as little Middle Eastern as I am (almost none).

    The father of our family friends, who "looks Jewish" and is proud of his Jewish heritage, took genetic test and came back slightly Scandinavian (!), substantially Italian and German in that order, and again less than half "Ashkenazi" and not much Middle Eastern.

    For sure many Jews with german or Slavic names don't have a lot of Germanic or slavic genes, but many do. And most of them in both categories are noticeably Italian. As someone who is genetically Italian, Germanic, and Slavic, I say to those "uniquely intelligent and talented 'Jews', you're welcome" ;)

    None of these anecdotes actually happened. You are making up stories to bolster your opinions. Next time stop after the first anecdote . It’s just not believe that you have so many Jewish friends , they all took dna tests , they all shared the result with you and none are really Jews. LoL. I would say nice try but that would be a lie.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    I grew up near NYC, attended law school, and live in LA. Yeah, I don't have that many Jewish friends and acquaintances and coworkers. Dumb fuck.
    , @RadicalCenter
    We don't even need the anecdotal evidence when we have strong genetic study evidence.

    Try to use your snark to explain away this study:

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    Testing thousands of ashkenazi Jews, scientists found that over EIGHTY PERCENT of their matrilineal DNA is WHITE EUROPEAN -- I.e. including Italian, Germanic, and Slavic -- way more than my claim of "substantial" European genes in the typical modern ashkenazi quote Jew.

    Conversely, 50-80% of their patrilineal DNA is traced to the Near East.

    The study results not not support my claim, they go much further than my claim. On average, the ashkenazi Jews tested were generally not just somewhat European, but more European than Semitic.
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  112. @newrouter
    Carlos Sim! Oh wait?

    Carlos Sim

    Was that a Freudian slip, considering the source of his fortune?

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  113. @Jack D
    Judging by their names, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, those so-called African-Americans are substantially genetically Anglo-Saxon.

    You seem to have taken my point to be nearly the opposite of what it was. Amuse yourself.

    I didn’t imply that Jews must be substantially Germanic or Slavic merely because they have such names. They are substantially Germanic or Slavic because genetic tests prove it to be the case, without regard to their names.

    Re-read the part where I noted that some Jews merely adopted Germanic and Slavic names without having much in the way of Germanic or Slavic genes, while many others actually ARE genetically Germanic and Slavic.

    As for Jews being Italian, I know hardly any self-identified Jews who have Italian family names. Yet the genetic evidence is strong that a great number of so-called (Ashkenazi) Jews have a meaningful Italian genetic contribution.

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  114. @Jonathan Mason
    Clearly coming to the United States on a plane or ship makes people more creative than if they come overland.

    Are the Canadians sending us their best? Pam Anderson, Alex Trebek? Why can't Americans do what they do?

    Samantha Bee drags the Canadian innovation average down – way down.

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  115. @Lurker

    Its amusing how whites always claim the achievements of the Jewish when positive
     
    Do they?

    As a white European of Italian, Germanic, and Slavic background, I am indeed proud of the achievements of the genetically Italian / Germanic / Slavic people known as “Jews.” But tired of them acting like they are some totally unique separate group that is so special and “better than the goys.” Genetically, many of them ARE freaking goyim.

    They benefit from their ancestors having acquired en masse the intelligence, creativity, and (by our lights) the general aesthetic attractiveness of white Europeans, then say, “look how impressive we ‘jews’ are.”

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  116. @Peter Akuleyev

    England got plumbers who were driven out because they were unskilled
     
    .

    Any statistics on that? I am sure England gets it share of semi-literate lunkheads from Lublin, but most Poles I meet in the UK are quite intelligent. Are English people really angry that Poland has sent cute blonde girls to work in their coffee shops? A lot of Poles also work in the financial sector. Moreover, a lot of very intelligent Poles you meet in Poland will tell you they had worked in the UK at some point, and presumably they weren't any stupider when they were younger. I think the anti-Pole bias is ginned up by UK media and politicians who want to appeal to anti-immigrant sentiment but don't dare mention the fact that most English are actually far more upset about Gypsies, Pakistanis and Africans than Poles.

    >anti-Pole sentiment is the establishment’s caricature acknowledgement of immigration externalities
    I am very partial to this view, especially after the downright wierd — and wierdly publicized — attacks on Poles immediately after Brexit, but cannot confirm anything.

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    • Replies: @Disordered
    There are two sides to that:
    -the leftist establishment in the UK wants to tie up the Brexit movement to 19th century xenophobia against Poles, therefore establishing that it isn't that Brexiteers care about keeping Western cultural values but are rather just anti-continental isolationists mired in the 19th century.
    -the right-wing press in the UK wants Brexiteers not to appear as racists solely focused on Muslim immigrants, therefore they also make the economic argument about incoming cheaper labor from Eastern Europe (this argument is somewhat weaker in Europe than in the US, since Hispanics are less culturally alien). plus, there's always a small minority of traditionalist British anti-Catholics.

    anyway, concerning the article, not surprising stats. Neither am I surprised about (usually whiter) Hispanics getting awards more in the arts than in empirical fields. Latins win Nobels for Literature and maybe even Peace, but not much else.

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  117. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake
    Depends on the Englishman.

    There are English who despise having Poles around because they are Catholic and sound weird and because all Germanics know that Slavs are inferior. There are English, lots of them, who if given the choice would take another million brown Mohammedans rather than add another half million Irish Catholics. A rather large number of English would prefer to take another Million Man March of Numinous Negroes from the Commonwealth than take another half million white Catholics of virtually any national or linguistic background.

    The problem is that it’s not just Polish plumbers who find life more lucrative in Britain than back home. Poland has also sent much of its criminal class to Britain. If you throw open your borders to all comers then you lose the ability to filter the good from the bad.

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  118. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Time and era. And in many ways, yes, the strength of the West was in being syncretic and open to ideas and its in some same way that America ended up being dominant against Old Europe. Greece ultimately was indeed defeated by provincialism and they noted it themselves: against the flexibility of Roman political and military warfare, no amount of hide-bound Spartans would matter. What you probably haven't thought about is that everything has externalities and being closed off has severe negative externalities. It doesn't matter if your culture creates the best swordsmen, for example, when someone else comes up with guns. Rome lingered on for at least a few hundred more years by "elite replacing" themselves with Germanics.

    Its hard to see find examples of a first world country that doesn't try to practice in some ways an inclusive policy. Even examples like Japan, for example, are pretty open to entrance for highly educated candidates.

    I don't expect to change your mind and I don't want to. There is a certain kind of will to suicide. You embody it for all to see and you should continue to do so.

    Like many other doomed causes, it is still poetically beautiful.

    Openness and tolerance are the consequences of wealth and power, not the cause of them. A poor and weak nation which is open and tolerant will be eaten alive. As white Americans decline in wealth and power they will become less open and tolerant – and rightly so. Anyone who tells them to do otherwise wishes them dead.

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  119. I lived in Mexico ten years ago including Mexico city. The population that troubles America I hardly noticed. Where were they? I assume in America. Mexico has been on a roll of transferring its Amerindian populations, not all Mexicans, to America. I thought, despite my own poverty, Mexico was a real run country with a handsome English proficient population, mostly southern european white but including blacks and Indians.

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  120. I lived in Mexico ten years ago including Mexico city. The population that troubles America I hardly noticed. Where were they? I assume in America. Mexico has been on a roll of transferring its Amerindian populations, not all Mexicans, to America. I thought, despite my own poverty, Mexico was a well run country with a handsome English proficient population, mostly southern european white but including blacks and Indians.

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  121. @The Alarmist
    As Fred Reed would tell you, Mexico is a land of opportunity, and indeed it is. So was the US in the 1930s, but you had hardcore down-and-out types sitting on not-so Magic Dirt® in Oklahoma who could only move, ironically enough, to the Magic Dirt® of Sunny California and the land of freedom and opportunity abutting it. These are just the New Okies. We need to remember those old Okie pictures, commissioned by the Roosevelt administration, and find our compassion.

    Excuse me while I vomit for saying that last bit.

    Exporting Mexicans to the US and then receiving the money those illegals send back to Mexico means that illegals are Mexico’s most profitable export.

    Mexico’s govt. actually facilitates the export of Mexicans to the US.

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  122. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.
     
    Do you wonder whether that will continue under socialized medicine? I do. When they want to cut costs, how long will it take to cut Doctors' salaries? IIRC that is what Britain did.

    AMA is a very powerful lobby (in some ways, acting as a union). Also, I suspect that in Britain the National Health Service didn’t cut physicians’ salaries, it just prevented them from growing as they did in the USA over the last 50+ years. That’s probably easier to do than to slash salaries for a lot of wealthy, organized and politically connected people.

    The way salaries will get eroded is by having PAs who earn less do more of the work. But PAs also make decent money (150k a year) and don’t work as hard as do engineers.

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  123. Canadians and Australians count as “OTHER” ?

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  124. Okay, Canadians and Australians make up the majority of the 3.5% “OTHERS”. From Table 7 and 9, we can conclude that people born in Africa are 0.1% of American innovators.

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  125. @jim jones
    The media manufacture anti-Polish sentiment to support the narrative that Brits are racist when in reality we are the most tolerant people on the planet

    The media manufacture anti-Polish sentiment

    Q: What ethnicity is Santa Claus?
    A: North Polish!

    ; D

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  126. @RadicalCenter
    Not according to both the family lore and the recent genetic tests of my many Jewish friends. They have indeed picked up Germanic and Slavic genes in many cases, not just adopted such names.

    My Jewish coworker did a genetic test just this year and it came back nearly one quarter Italian and nearly one quarter Slavic, though no Germanic. This is not atypical among North American "Jews."

    My best friend did a genetic test, as did his mother, who is "Jewish." She came back as more than half white european, mostly Slavic, less than half "Ashkenazi Jewish", and as little Middle Eastern as I am (almost none).

    The father of our family friends, who "looks Jewish" and is proud of his Jewish heritage, took genetic test and came back slightly Scandinavian (!), substantially Italian and German in that order, and again less than half "Ashkenazi" and not much Middle Eastern.

    For sure many Jews with german or Slavic names don't have a lot of Germanic or slavic genes, but many do. And most of them in both categories are noticeably Italian. As someone who is genetically Italian, Germanic, and Slavic, I say to those "uniquely intelligent and talented 'Jews', you're welcome" ;)

    Anecdotes are not evidence. In actual population studies, Ashkenazi Jews (not mischlinge) have very little German or Slav admixture. There was early (i.e. Roman times) admixture with Italian women when the Jews first arrived in Europe but very little mixing after that. Keep in mind that the founding population of Ashkenazi Jews was very small – possibly only a handful of people.

    I don’t think that modern Americans, who screw everything in sight regardless of race, creed or color, can fully imagine the degree of social isolation that existed in Europe which made mixing between groups unthinkable.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Anecdotes aren't irrelevant, either, particularly when backed up by specific reliable genetic tests. Those are actually data points. I'm not required to ignore data of which I'm directly aware.

    There is no reason to think that all our friends, Acquaintances, and coworkers are unrepresentative in their genetic makeup as "Jews."

    Those tests make clear that mixing apparently was not unthinkable for some meaningful portion of the population.

    And check out this study, which makes a forceful conclusion: MORE THAN EIGHTY PERCENT of maternal lineage in Ashkenazi "Jews" is European. Doesn't sound like a minimal Germanic and Slavic contribution; quite the opposite. Conversely, less than that of their paternal lineage (50-80%) is middle eastern / near eastern.

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    According to this source, then, typical Ashkenazi Jews are as much European genetically as they are Semitic, or on average a bit more to substantially more european. Oy, vat a Schande!
    , @RadicalCenter
    Anecdotes aren't irrelevant, either, particularly when backed up by specific reliable genetic tests. Those are actually data points. I'm not required to ignore data of which I'm directly aware.

    There is no reason to think that all our friends, Acquaintances, and coworkers are unrepresentative in their genetic makeup as "Jews."

    Those tests make clear that mixing apparently was not unthinkable for some meaningful portion of the population.

    And check out this study, which makes a forceful conclusion: MORE THAN EIGHTY PERCENT of maternal lineage in Ashkenazi "Jews" is European. Doesn't sound like a minimal Germanic and Slavic contribution; quite the opposite. Conversely, less than that of their paternal lineage (50-80%) is middle eastern / near eastern.

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    According to this source, then, typical Ashkenazi Jews are as much European genetically as they are Semitic, or on average a bit more to substantially more european. Oy, vat a Schande!
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  127. @AP
    It doesn't pay. You can be a brilliant engineer, and work your ass off 50 hours a week making 150k a year, or get into management and work 60 hour weeks managing huge projects for double that.

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.

    Or if you don't mind working long hours, get into finance and earn much more than would a physician.

    This is why many innovators in the USA are from places such as China, India, or Eastern Europe.

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k

    Getting accepted to a US medical school is very, very difficult. And if one gets in, the work load is crushing. Then the likelihood of getting accepted into one of the better, more lucrative specialties like dermatology is quite low.

    Nonetheless, if one is interested in medicine as a career, then it’s still probably worth the effort. Failing to get into med school, podiatry or osteopathy would be a great alternative.

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  128. @Massimo Heitor
    Even if a demographic group lacks innovation or scores low on standardized tests or loses sporting competitions, or statistics show high crime rates and bad breath... ignore or sympathize with or help them correct their failures. Absolutely acknowledge factual reality, but still maintain a constructive, kind, productive ethos.

    This post veers into meanness.

    So the NAM community is just a bunch of warrior-poets waiting to be nurtured? Do you feel the same way about poor whites and Asians?

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  129. @Autochthon
    You are missing my point or else ignoring it.

    Over time, we'll have Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine.

    Better than Brownsville? Sure. Khinshasa? Absolutely. But I don't consider handing my patrimony over to aliens desirable, be those aliens ever so clever or orderly.

    The antagonists in V, Starship Troopers, and Oblivion were even more sophisticated than the garrisons in Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine, but I suppose I'd be fighting them to the death while perhaps you would cheerily welcome them.

    If you consider that winning, I hate to think what losing is.

    My most charitable suspicion is you are one of the douche-nozzle boomers who doesn't understand supply and demand for jobs and housing because, "Hey! My employees keep getting cheaper and more docile while my house's value keeps appreciating. Posterity? Bah! Kids are just lazy and entitled nowadays!"

    I’m one of those “douche-nozzle boomers”, but I also remember coming home from work one night during summer break from college and finding my dad having a snack in the kitchen while writing checks. Even in 1980 I was surprised by the $172 mortgage payment.

    That house that he bought in 1972 for $39K sold in 1990 for $360K. Nice return on investment, huh?

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  130. @J.Ross
    >anti-Pole sentiment is the establishment's caricature acknowledgement of immigration externalities
    I am very partial to this view, especially after the downright wierd -- and wierdly publicized -- attacks on Poles immediately after Brexit, but cannot confirm anything.

    There are two sides to that:
    -the leftist establishment in the UK wants to tie up the Brexit movement to 19th century xenophobia against Poles, therefore establishing that it isn’t that Brexiteers care about keeping Western cultural values but are rather just anti-continental isolationists mired in the 19th century.
    -the right-wing press in the UK wants Brexiteers not to appear as racists solely focused on Muslim immigrants, therefore they also make the economic argument about incoming cheaper labor from Eastern Europe (this argument is somewhat weaker in Europe than in the US, since Hispanics are less culturally alien). plus, there’s always a small minority of traditionalist British anti-Catholics.

    anyway, concerning the article, not surprising stats. Neither am I surprised about (usually whiter) Hispanics getting awards more in the arts than in empirical fields. Latins win Nobels for Literature and maybe even Peace, but not much else.

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  131. Thank you; exactly my point.

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  132. @nebulafox
    The Huguenots managed to help Prussia recoup its losses after Frederick the Great's wars. Even today, plenty of aristocratic German families with roots in former eastern territories like Silesia have French sounding names.

    I've got nothing against immigration that makes sense. In the right place and time, with the right migrants, it can be a much needed transfusion of new blood and creativity for the national gene pool. The problem is that our current immigration policies are completely nonsensical. The last we need right now is more people in general, given the coming economic issues of the 21st Century. This isn't the early 20th Century-and current levels of migration might even be outstripping that. "Diversity" doesn't pay the bills or help cure intractable socioeconomic issues.

    We need to figure out what we are going to do with the tens of millions of Americans who are going to be unemployable, and how we are going to pay for it all, before we move on to other issues, whether it is engaging in military conflicts or admitting millions more newcomers. Last thing we need right now, already with a welfare state that is straining at the seams, budget-wise (yet still manages, somehow, to be vastly inferior to any other developed nation's), is tens of millions of more low-skilled laborers who we can't even account for and will likely be unemployable in the long run as well. Especially if they cause ethnic tensions, which they almost certainly will thanks to a toxic brew of multiple factors.

    +100.
    not to mention, the millions of immigrants leave their home countries screwed, with only the elites that can afford to live there and rule, and the powerless masses who cannot afford to leave nor change things. this dystopian future is already seen in Central America (El Salvador). after some of that societal destruction happens in several countries, I imagine that eventually someone will say “let’s send a pacifying mission to those countries, just a few hundred troops on advisory role…”. thus the Cold War will keep returning, this time without ideological pretense, and all about spheres of influence. today it’s Putin, tomorrow it’s Chairman Xi.

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  133. @Autochthon
    You are missing my point or else ignoring it.

    Over time, we'll have Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine.

    Better than Brownsville? Sure. Khinshasa? Absolutely. But I don't consider handing my patrimony over to aliens desirable, be those aliens ever so clever or orderly.

    The antagonists in V, Starship Troopers, and Oblivion were even more sophisticated than the garrisons in Cupertino, Sunnyvale, Vancouver, and Irvine, but I suppose I'd be fighting them to the death while perhaps you would cheerily welcome them.

    If you consider that winning, I hate to think what losing is.

    My most charitable suspicion is you are one of the douche-nozzle boomers who doesn't understand supply and demand for jobs and housing because, "Hey! My employees keep getting cheaper and more docile while my house's value keeps appreciating. Posterity? Bah! Kids are just lazy and entitled nowadays!"

    I’m amused by your film references: Oblivion I’ve never heard of, but, to tell the honest truth, I did cheer the V invaders on. After all, the humans were a particulalry rebarbative bunch of southern Californians – Valley types in fact.
    But Starship Troopers? Certainly not. Why would I support a bunch of insects (the other) against an obviously fascistic Aryan state? Truly one of my favorite films.

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  134. @Jack D
    Anecdotes are not evidence. In actual population studies, Ashkenazi Jews (not mischlinge) have very little German or Slav admixture. There was early (i.e. Roman times) admixture with Italian women when the Jews first arrived in Europe but very little mixing after that. Keep in mind that the founding population of Ashkenazi Jews was very small - possibly only a handful of people.

    I don't think that modern Americans, who screw everything in sight regardless of race, creed or color, can fully imagine the degree of social isolation that existed in Europe which made mixing between groups unthinkable.

    Anecdotes aren’t irrelevant, either, particularly when backed up by specific reliable genetic tests. Those are actually data points. I’m not required to ignore data of which I’m directly aware.

    There is no reason to think that all our friends, Acquaintances, and coworkers are unrepresentative in their genetic makeup as “Jews.”

    Those tests make clear that mixing apparently was not unthinkable for some meaningful portion of the population.

    And check out this study, which makes a forceful conclusion: MORE THAN EIGHTY PERCENT of maternal lineage in Ashkenazi “Jews” is European. Doesn’t sound like a minimal Germanic and Slavic contribution; quite the opposite. Conversely, less than that of their paternal lineage (50-80%) is middle eastern / near eastern.

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    According to this source, then, typical Ashkenazi Jews are as much European genetically as they are Semitic, or on average a bit more to substantially more european. Oy, vat a Schande!

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  135. @Jack D
    Anecdotes are not evidence. In actual population studies, Ashkenazi Jews (not mischlinge) have very little German or Slav admixture. There was early (i.e. Roman times) admixture with Italian women when the Jews first arrived in Europe but very little mixing after that. Keep in mind that the founding population of Ashkenazi Jews was very small - possibly only a handful of people.

    I don't think that modern Americans, who screw everything in sight regardless of race, creed or color, can fully imagine the degree of social isolation that existed in Europe which made mixing between groups unthinkable.

    Anecdotes aren’t irrelevant, either, particularly when backed up by specific reliable genetic tests. Those are actually data points. I’m not required to ignore data of which I’m directly aware.

    There is no reason to think that all our friends, Acquaintances, and coworkers are unrepresentative in their genetic makeup as “Jews.”

    Those tests make clear that mixing apparently was not unthinkable for some meaningful portion of the population.

    And check out this study, which makes a forceful conclusion: MORE THAN EIGHTY PERCENT of maternal lineage in Ashkenazi “Jews” is European. Doesn’t sound like a minimal Germanic and Slavic contribution; quite the opposite. Conversely, less than that of their paternal lineage (50-80%) is middle eastern / near eastern.

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    According to this source, then, typical Ashkenazi Jews are as much European genetically as they are Semitic, or on average a bit more to substantially more european. Oy, vat a Schande!

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  136. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @for-the-record
    If the Polish plumbers are unskilled, no wonder Brits are upset with them. Bad things happen with an unskillled plumber.

    The unhappiness of Brits with Polish plumbers is from the competition they represent, not the quality of their work. My impression, based on friends/family in the UK, is that Polish workmen have a very good reputation, generally far superior to the UK "average".

    My impression, based on friends/family in the UK, is that Polish workmen have a very good reputation, generally far superior to the UK “average”.

    Remember that much of what is now Poland war earlier known as PRUSSIA.

    The electors of Brandenburg – a small territory inside the old “Holy Roman” German empire – had originally leased Prussia from the Polish crown. In time, Prussia became their most important holding and they retconned themselves as Kings of Prussia.

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  137. @Harry Baldwin
    One of many examples of President Obama's dishonesty was that he would justify his open borders policy by observing that many great companies were started by immigrants:

    Think about it. We define ourselves as a nation of immigrants. That’s who we are, in our bones. The promise we see in those who come here from every corner of the globe, that’s always been one of our greatest strengths. It keeps our workforce young, it keeps our country on the cutting edge, and it’s helped build the greatest economic engine the world has ever known.

    After all, immigrants helped start businesses like Google and Yahoo. They created entire new industries that in turn created new jobs and new prosperity for our citizens.
     
    Of course, he couldn't think of any great companies that were started by Mexicans or Latin Americans, vast numbers of whom he was determined to let in.

    One of many examples of President Obama’s dishonesty was that he would justify his open borders policy by observing that many great companies were started by immigrants:

    Obama’s an idiot.

    The point isn’t that no immigrants are capable of doing anything productive.

    The points are

    (1) Immigrants are less capable, on average, than native whites, and if we had native whites instead of immigrants we would have MORE good stuff;

    (2) To justify their presence, immigrants must be so much more productive than natives that they manage to increase natives’ wealth despite (a) using resources that belong to natives and (b) voting to take the natives’ wealth away from them;

    (3) The immigrants could have started these companies back home, unless, of course, native whites are superior to the immigrants’ fellow countrymen; and

    (4) Cetera.

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  138. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Or if you have the same intelligence, go to medical school, get into a specialty such as dermatology, make 400k, and live an easy comfortable life.
     
    Do you wonder whether that will continue under socialized medicine? I do. When they want to cut costs, how long will it take to cut Doctors' salaries? IIRC that is what Britain did.

    Under functioning socialized medicine, you also remove malpractice insurance, removing a significant cost to practice. You also remove the arcane billing practices. Bad doctors would not be tolerated under a functioning system and would quickly lose their license to practice. Compensation for the small amount for malpractice would be handled by government disability insurance.

    Notice, I said functioning. Whether you get a functioning system or not is the question.

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  139. @Anon
    None of these anecdotes actually happened. You are making up stories to bolster your opinions. Next time stop after the first anecdote . It's just not believe that you have so many Jewish friends , they all took dna tests , they all shared the result with you and none are really Jews. LoL. I would say nice try but that would be a lie.

    I grew up near NYC, attended law school, and live in LA. Yeah, I don’t have that many Jewish friends and acquaintances and coworkers. Dumb fuck.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Edit: born and raised in heavily Jewish towns in northeastern New Jersey, attended a quote elite college with a fair number of Jews, including two roommates, attended a heavily Jewish grad school and had another two Jewish housemates there, and now live and spend time primarily in downtown LA and ueber-Jewish parts of West LA. You are rather foolish to find my claim facially implausible.

    Believe what you like, but you are wrong about me and provably wrong about the genetic background of the ashkenazi Jews, who have been found to have more than eighty percent of their matrilineal DNA from Europe, and the same or a lesser percentage of their paternal DNA from the near east. They are often, and more typically, more white European than Semitic.

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

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  140. @Anon
    None of these anecdotes actually happened. You are making up stories to bolster your opinions. Next time stop after the first anecdote . It's just not believe that you have so many Jewish friends , they all took dna tests , they all shared the result with you and none are really Jews. LoL. I would say nice try but that would be a lie.

    We don’t even need the anecdotal evidence when we have strong genetic study evidence.

    Try to use your snark to explain away this study:

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    Testing thousands of ashkenazi Jews, scientists found that over EIGHTY PERCENT of their matrilineal DNA is WHITE EUROPEAN — I.e. including Italian, Germanic, and Slavic — way more than my claim of “substantial” European genes in the typical modern ashkenazi quote Jew.

    Conversely, 50-80% of their patrilineal DNA is traced to the Near East.

    The study results not not support my claim, they go much further than my claim. On average, the ashkenazi Jews tested were generally not just somewhat European, but more European than Semitic.

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  141. @RadicalCenter
    I grew up near NYC, attended law school, and live in LA. Yeah, I don't have that many Jewish friends and acquaintances and coworkers. Dumb fuck.

    Edit: born and raised in heavily Jewish towns in northeastern New Jersey, attended a quote elite college with a fair number of Jews, including two roommates, attended a heavily Jewish grad school and had another two Jewish housemates there, and now live and spend time primarily in downtown LA and ueber-Jewish parts of West LA. You are rather foolish to find my claim facially implausible.

    Believe what you like, but you are wrong about me and provably wrong about the genetic background of the ashkenazi Jews, who have been found to have more than eighty percent of their matrilineal DNA from Europe, and the same or a lesser percentage of their paternal DNA from the near east. They are often, and more typically, more white European than Semitic.

    https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html

    Read More
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