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Matthew Weiner Explains "Mad Men" Is About "White Power"
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With Mad Men finally going away, it’s worth noting again how much the engine behind showrunner Matthew Weiner’s fabulous career has been the racial-ethnic anger and resentment he has carefully nurtured throughout what has been, objectively, a very pleasant and privileged life: he grew up in beautiful Hancock Park in Los Angeles, his father is head of The Leslie P. Weiner Neurological Care and Research Center at USC, he attended and briefly taught at Harvard-Westlake in the Hollywood Hills (the most prestigious prep school in Los Angeles), then went on to Wesleyan U., and then into a successful career in the entertainment industry.

Here’s another interview, this time in Paris Review, in which Weiner explains what his Mad Men was all about:

These men don’t take no for an answer, they build these big businesses, these empires, but really it’s all based on failure, insecurity, and an identity modeled on some abstract ideal of white power. I’ve always said this is a show about becoming white. That’s the definition of success in America—becoming a WASP. A WASP male. The driving question for the series is, Who are we? When we talk about “we,” who is that? In the pilot, Pete Campbell has this line, “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.” Sophisticated anti-Semitism. I overheard that line when I was a schoolteacher. The person, of course, didn’t know they were in the presence of a Jew. I was a ghost.

A newspaper article from when Weiner was a student at Harvard-Westlake in 1981 estimates its student body was 40% Jewish, although in his earlier interview with David Samuels, Weiner insists Jews were much more of a minority at Harvard-Westlake. These implausible memories of his being oppressed for being Jewish in the heart of the second biggest concentration of Jewish wealth and power in the world at the time are incredibly important to Weiner’s sense of himself.

But the Weiners were, presumably, not invited to join the Wilshire Country Club in Hancock Park, and the Los Angeles Country Club on Wilshire Blvd. loomed like an enemy outpost. Sure, they could have joined Hillcrest, Brentwood, or El Caballero while their gentile neighbors could not, but that’s not the point, the point is that Matthew Weiner is a victim.

Certain male artists like to show that they’re feminists as a way to get girls. That’s always seemed pimpy to me. I sympathize with feminism the same way I identify with gay people and with people of color, because I know what it’s like to look over the side of the fence and then to climb over the fence and to feel like you don’t belong, or be reminded at the worst moment that you don’t belong.

Take Rachel Menken, the department-store heiress in the first season of Mad Men. She’s part of what I call the nose-job generation. She’s assimilated. She probably doesn’t observe the Sabbath or any of these other things that her parents did. That generation had a hard time because they were trying desperately to be buttoned-down and preppy and—this is my parent’s generation—white as could be. They were embarrassed by their parents. This is the story of America, this assimilation. Because guess what, this guy Don has the same problems. He’s hiding his identity, too. That’s why Rachel Menken understands Don, because they’re both trying desperately to be white American males.

Of all of them, Peggy is my favorite. I identify with her struggle. She is so earnest and self-righteous and talented and smart, but dumb about personal things. She thinks she’s living the life of “we.” But she’s not. And every time she turns a corner, someone says, “You’re not part of ‘we.’ ” “But you all said ‘we’ the other day.” “Yes, we meant, ‘we white men.’”

Like Johnny Rotten said, “Anger is an energy.” It doesn’t really matter if the reasons for your ethnic animus are obviously absurd, ugly, and self-serving. As long as your culture validates your feelings, you can gain a major career boost from the motivation they provide.

On the other hand, if your ethnic resentments are not validated by your culture, you had better learn to put a lid on your feelings. Watch your step. Check your privilege.

 
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  1. I hope to God someone sends this to Weiner. Maybe slip it under his door or leave in his mailbox. So good.

  2. Good lord not the country club thing again……!

    sigh…..

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "fish says:

    Good lord not the country club thing again……!

    sigh….."

    The ancient golf-libel.
  3. Anger is an energy. And resentment over slights, real or imagined, is an excuse to forego certain niceties. Because the other team is (presumably) playing dirty too.

    Or at least, they would, if only they were as clever as you. If they aren’t… goyishe kop.

  4. Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants? Somebody clue me in. Is it taught in the home? Is this guy–Weiner–an anomaly and not reflective of the Jewish community as a whole?

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    The strange thing is that Anglo White Protestants are the people they admire and most want to be around. They used to admire the Germans but that went sour in the mid-1930s. The people who really get them bent out of shape are Old World Catholics and Orthodox folks, especially Slavs.
    , @Anonymous
    We Jewish people don't all have an aversion to Anglo White Protestants. It's true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites, but we don't all become bitter Weiner types. Unfortunately, Weiner has a media soapbox, and the media rewards ethnic and gender grievance mongering.
    , @Merema
    In general, truth be told, most minorities are saboteurs of the dominant culture. It really can't be helped.

    For Jews such as Weiner, I think it is because they see themselves as White, and are very angry that WASPs (representing the dominant culture) see them as different, as "the other". This phenomenon is common among all minorities everywhere in the world.

    Imagine a child who has not yet tuned into the various ethnic or religious differences and hierarchies. One day, the child discovers that he is a member of the "out" group, the "minority". It is a devastating moment for that child, who-until that moment-thought he/she was just like everyone else. That moment could come because of what a parent said ("we can't be members of that club", "they don't like us"), or a casual remark by a peer in a school yard, and that moment of realizing he.she is "different" is truly devastating for a child. Some never let go of that feeling and nurse an anger forever-especially if it is encouraged. Others grow up to understand that human society is complicated and develop a positive and constructive identity that is not hostile to the majority culture.

    In general though, truth be told, all minorities are saboteurs of the dominant culture. It really can't be helped.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants?"

    That's their identity. Kinda like how Canadians often identify themselves as other-than-Americans.
  5. Good thing he’s talented or else Matthew Weiner would be a name remembered in infamy for an outburst of beta male rage.

  6. Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that his teammate on junior varsity football in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick Steve’s ass every day. Probably because of anti-Semitism.

    http://www.superlawyers.com/washington/article/Keep-It-Simple-Stupid/89fccc82-840a-4a05-8b25-3e8dc951a1c8.html

    “I was playing [football], second-string quarterback, going into my junior year,” he says. “I’m calling plays in the very first scrimmage. There’s a guy across the way. He just hated me. I think it was anti-Semitic. He says, ‘Berman, I’m going to fucking kick your ass every day.’ He was an animal. All of a sudden I realized, I’m only 5’10”, and I’m not going to get any bigger. This guy is going to kill me. So I go, ‘Timeout.’ I hand the helmet to the coach, take off my pads, run over to the soccer field. I tell the coach there, ‘I want to play soccer.’”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    LOL. See, soccer sucks. Soccer is for wimps.
    , @D. K.
    ***

    At corporate firm Shidler, McBroom, Gates & Lucas (now K&L Gates), Berman became involved in his first class action from the plaintiff’s side. It was the Washington Public Power Supply System (WPPSS) case, a public works project that mismanaged the creation of two nuclear power facilities into a $2.4 billion boondoggle. “We sued all 88 towns and cities in the Northwest,” he says. “They were defendants. The underwriters were defendants and the city of Seattle was a defendant.” The case settled for $753 million in 1988, leaving Berman with a taste for class action. He looked around at other firms but few would touch him. “They said, ‘You’re like a lightning rod, suing everyone around here.’ Betts Patterson was the only firm that would hire me. They had a plaintiff’s practice that was floundering. They wanted someone to come in and fix it.”

    ***

    My very first assignment, as a newly minted Seattle lawyer, almost thirty years ago, was researching and drafting a portion of our firm's plaintiff brief against the Washington Public Power Supply System, on behalf of our client, U.S. Trust, which had bought a lot of WPPSS bonds, after what my supervising partner used to refer to as "a dog-and-pony show." As I recall, from half my life ago, WPPSS had planned to build five nuclear plants. It had started construction on two of them, at the point where its financing imploded, and the projects were mothballed.

    , @Curle
    Berman was the attorney representing the State of Washington in the so-called Tobacco Settlement, a deal that was poorly reported on at the time and that constitutes one of the greatest highjackings of the political process in modern memory. The total 'settlement', not really a settlement, but an agreement to impose a tax by various state legislatures on competitors of certain major tobacco brands euphemistically called an 'escrow account', was truly a world class swindle and raised more than $206 million from nascent competitors.

    The swindle worked like this. Berman and a crowd of other high profile plaintiff's attorneys across the US conceived of seeking compensation from tobacco companies for costs related to medicare expenses for smokers. Getting nowhere with this approach, Berman and company shifted gears and devised a 'settlement' with big tobacco that consisted of state legislatures forcing big tobacco to pay a penalty ostensibly for medicare fraud in exchange for restrictions on advertising (agreeing to limit their first amendment rights) and participating state legislatures agreeing to create 'escrow' funds that their non-targeted (and non-liable) competitors would have to pay into based on market share. These 'escrow' funds were to represent anticipated (ANTICIPATED) bad actions by competitors who couldn't otherwise be penalized in the way imagined for big tobacco. Imagine by way of analogy that you've committed consumer fraud but you will only agree to settle and pay money if the state legislature adopts legislation imposing the same penalty on your non-consumer fraud committing competitors. It was a melange of bad ideas, monopoly re-inforcment, deprivation of constitutional rights, etc. all packaged as reform. And, the biggest kicker being that the state legislature did all the work but attorneys like Berman walked away with multi-million dollar paydays.

    The whole scam was far too complicated for a press corps uninterested in things that didn't advance the narrative, so information stayed contained. I'm still waiting for someone to write the definitive account.
  7. Probably a lot to do with his surname being a nick-name for a penis.

    • Replies: @Mark Caplan

    Probably a lot to do with his surname being a nick-name for a penis.
     
    A nickname for a nicked penis.
    , @International Jew
    Not really. You're mixing up Weiner and Wiener. Wiener means "from Vienna" and is thus the one with a hot dog conotation. Whereas Weiner comes from the German word for wine and thus has nothing to do with wieners.
    , @iffen
    Weiner stimulates the desire to use the Wiener.
  8. Steve Sailer: Sure, they could have joined Hillcrest, Brentwood, or El Caballero while their gentile neighbors, but that’s not the point, the point is that Matthew Weiner is a victim.

    Something missing from that sentence.

  9. Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that anti-semitism “probably” was at work when a teammate on his junior varsity football squad in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick his ass every day. Not only do they occupy the commanding heights of industry in America, they overcame vicious, irrational anti-Semitic hate to get there.

    http://www.superlawyers.com/washington/article/Keep-It-Simple-Stupid/89fccc82-840a-4a05-8b25-3e8dc951a1c8.html

    “I was playing [football], second-string quarterback, going into my junior year,” he says. “I’m calling plays in the very first scrimmage. There’s a guy across the way. He just hated me. I think it was anti-Semitic.

    • Replies: @Anonymous


    Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that anti-semitism “probably” was at work when a teammate on his junior varsity football squad in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick his ass every day.
     
    Kicked his ass every day? Either it wasn't much of an ass kicking or it wasn't everyday.

    Anyway, why is it that whiny aggrieved types never consider for even so much as a nano second that a person from some other group might not like them because of who they are rather than for the group they are in?

    I'm white and sometimes (gasp) a white person is rude to me or doesn't seem to like me.
  10. H2 says:

    Steve, do you have a book/compilation of some of your best posts? E.g. John Derbyshire has “From the Dissident Right” and “From the Dissident Right: Part 2.” The only book I see on Amazon from you is The Half-Blood Prince. It’d also be another way for us readers to give you some money!

    • Replies: @Lackawanna
    Because WASP's were the elite, those who want to be the elite target them. The Nazi's didn't direct a lot of hostilely to Australian Aborigines, but to Jews and Russians, who Germans had already had conflicts with and who they were most afraid of.

    Because Anglo White Protestants kiss their butts so much and have no internal solidarity. They are the perfect victims. Their sycophancy breeds contempt and their pathological individualism makes them easy to knock over.

    It's also jealousy.

    Anti-white racism is different from other kinds of racism. It's hate and envy and wanting to be us mixed up. Racism from say, whites directed at blacks or between Arabs and Jews is mostly just not wanting to be around people that are different. Weiner wants to be a WASP too, he is just confused about it. That's where the hate comes. He hates that he wants to be like WASP's rather than like his ancestors in the Shtetl. So he hates the WASP's for making him have these feelings of inferiority and envy.

    If Weiner didn't want to be a WASP, he would become a Hasid or move to Israel.
  11. When I read this

    I identify with gay people and with people of color, because I know what it’s like to look over the side of the fence and then to climb over the fence and to feel like you don’t belong

    I thought I was reading this by Dylan

    His closest friends were black men ’cause they seemed to understand
    What it’s like to be in society with a shackle on your hand

  12. OT:

    I was going to make a joke about how your article was punching down, but I couldn’t make it work. So I’m just going to leave a comment about the phrase “punching down”.

    This meme has been catching like wildfire in other parts of the internet. I regularly see comments on Reddit talking about punching down. Makes me a little sad seeing such a silly meme spreading so fast.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I wonder if the goy actors know they're but bit players in some nasty little jew's neurotic fantasy.
  13. Hollywood just keeps on writing the unauthorized autobiographies of other people. It’s really a kind of fraud or malpractice to pretend to tell other people’s history and then pass it off to the general public as just an American telling American stories, full stop. Imagine if a German-American made The Sopranos and then said in interviews “yeah, I guess I was driven throughout the series by my strong dislike of East Coast Italians”. Would everyone be fine with that?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    David Chase, the showrunner of The Sopranos, is Italian.
  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Of all of them, Peggy is my favorite. I identify with her struggle. She is so earnest and self-righteous and talented and smart, but dumb about personal things. She thinks she’s living the life of “we.” But she’s not. And every time she turns a corner, someone says, “You’re not part of ‘we.’ ”

    And so it turns out that Peggy in fact best symbolizes native stock White Anerica. Duped into letting in millions of ethnocentric foreigners on their fraudulent promise that they would lay down their tribalism and assimilate into the “we” of the American nation.

  15. Mike Zwick [AKA "Dahinda"] says:

    Having grown up in a blue collar area all of this is very alien to me. The idea that all white people lived these Mad Men privileged lives is bizarre and it shows how out of touch the people on any side of this are, Jew or not Jew. The definition of success in my America was being able to pay off the house.

    • Replies: @Anonyias
    No kidding. My mother is in her early 50s. Success for her family growing up was being able to afford an upgrade from the outhouse to indoor plumbing. They got a toilet around 1968- she was 6 years old. I am only one generation removed from an outhouse.

    Her family was far from being the poorest in her hometown, too. They were considered lower middle class, respectable blue collar types.

    People like Weiner haven't the slightest clue what life was like in the rest of the country. They assume the American experience begins and ends in the suburbs of New York, LA, and Chicago.
  16. A suggested edit, Steve. You write:

    Like Johnny Rotten said, “Anger is an energy.” It doesn’t really matter if the reasons for your anger are obviously absurd and ugly.

    It is hatred what is going on here, not anger. Anger suggests an external, often objectively legitimate, cause.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    It is hatred what is going on here, not anger.
     
    And he found the perfect man for the (hit) job:

    http://www.mercurynews.com/celebrities/ci_27887145/jon-hamm-hazing-mad-men-star-set-pledge

    No biggie, though, just libeling American history.
  17. @Nathan Wartooth
    OT:

    I was going to make a joke about how your article was punching down, but I couldn't make it work. So I'm just going to leave a comment about the phrase "punching down".

    This meme has been catching like wildfire in other parts of the internet. I regularly see comments on Reddit talking about punching down. Makes me a little sad seeing such a silly meme spreading so fast.

    I wonder if the goy actors know they’re but bit players in some nasty little jew’s neurotic fantasy.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    People should follow the recent example of the Navajo actors who walked off Adam Sandler's film set.
    , @Anonymous
    Actors aren't that bright in general and don't care if they're getting fame and fortune, especially if the subtext is too subtle for them and most of the audience to grasp.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    That's all of Hollywood you're talking about there.
  18. He was probably teased as a kid for his last name and falsely remembers it as ethnic abuse and oppression.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Probably the funniest, most cutting teasing over being named Weiner was from other Jewish kids whose dads were comedy writers.
  19. @john shade
    Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that his teammate on junior varsity football in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick Steve's ass every day. Probably because of anti-Semitism.


    http://www.superlawyers.com/washington/article/Keep-It-Simple-Stupid/89fccc82-840a-4a05-8b25-3e8dc951a1c8.html

    “I was playing [football], second-string quarterback, going into my junior year,” he says. “I’m calling plays in the very first scrimmage. There’s a guy across the way. He just hated me. I think it was anti-Semitic. He says, ‘Berman, I’m going to fucking kick your ass every day.’ He was an animal. All of a sudden I realized, I’m only 5’10”, and I’m not going to get any bigger. This guy is going to kill me. So I go, ‘Timeout.’ I hand the helmet to the coach, take off my pads, run over to the soccer field. I tell the coach there, ‘I want to play soccer.’”

    LOL. See, soccer sucks. Soccer is for wimps.

  20. @Dave
    Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants? Somebody clue me in. Is it taught in the home? Is this guy--Weiner--an anomaly and not reflective of the Jewish community as a whole?

    The strange thing is that Anglo White Protestants are the people they admire and most want to be around. They used to admire the Germans but that went sour in the mid-1930s. The people who really get them bent out of shape are Old World Catholics and Orthodox folks, especially Slavs.

    • Replies: @SFG
    They seem to like the Italians just fine.
    , @Anonymous
    Anglo White Protestants are...

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?
  21. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave
    Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants? Somebody clue me in. Is it taught in the home? Is this guy--Weiner--an anomaly and not reflective of the Jewish community as a whole?

    We Jewish people don’t all have an aversion to Anglo White Protestants. It’s true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites, but we don’t all become bitter Weiner types. Unfortunately, Weiner has a media soapbox, and the media rewards ethnic and gender grievance mongering.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It’s true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites

    Your fault or theirs? Seems to me that as long as you insist on being a separate people (we jewish people), you are the one responsible for exclusion. Jews want to have their cake and eat it.
    , @Pat Hannagan
    Two things that fascinate me are:

    1) Why is the Anglo-Saxon Protestant acronym prefaced with White? Isn't White assumed? Are there black Anglo-Saxons?

    2) After all the obvious hatred and general despising and loathing Jews feel, and generally dish towards ASPs, why do the ASPs remain the Jews biggest non-Jewish fanclub?

    No matter how many times a Weiner whines what he says above I can only imagine some gentrified ASP in a country club somewhere applauding the Weiner and resolving to invade another Mid East country to make up for the slight.
    , @SFG
    It's more than that. With all the push for diversity, you have to have an angle. The only way to get away with making a series about the heyday of WASP America is to claim you're deconstructing it. A lot of the popularity of the show has to do with its depicting the last time when America really felt strong and sure of itself; that's why the huge retro love for the 50s (the cultural era Mad Men was the tag end of).

    Not to say that Weiner doesn't actually have these resentments, but he could also be playing a double game, like Sacha Baron Cohen--claiming you're unmasking racism while actually getting to make jokes about prostitution and incest. He can make money off the 50s and attack them at the same time.

    , @Dave
    As someone from a British-derived White Protestant background, I'm starting to feel like an outsider. It kind of sucks. I totally get it now.
  22. Paging Kevin MacDonald…

  23. @Anonymous
    He was probably teased as a kid for his last name and falsely remembers it as ethnic abuse and oppression.

    Probably the funniest, most cutting teasing over being named Weiner was from other Jewish kids whose dads were comedy writers.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Jewish culture has this useful habit of redirecting memories of internal unpleasantries onto outsiders.
  24. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve always said this is a show about becoming white. That’s the definition of success in America—becoming a WASP. A WASP male.

    To all you parents out there of little 2 and 3 year old WASP males, it sure must be nice to know that your kid never has to do anything worthwhile and he will still be envied by the congenitally envious whose feelings of envy are “all based on failure, insecurity, and an identity modeled on some abstract ideal of white power.”

  25. Wiener means resident of Vienna.

    • Replies: @Seamus
    Well, that's *one* meaning of the name. There may even be a few people who think of that meaning first.
    , @Old Jew
    True.

    But the name is Weiner.

    German Wein = wine in English.

    Thus Weiner somebody who makes or serves wine.

    But it can also be a misspelling of Wiener (somebody from Wien=Viena)
  26. I’m from a blue collar background, and a proud alpha male.

    Weiner comes across in this interview as a emasculated beta male, like he is trying to impress chicks with his “feminist” credentials.

    • Replies: @OhComeOn
    1) you're not an alpha male

    2) Weiner is the Alpha Male---he's in charge...of you
  27. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I wonder if the goy actors know they're but bit players in some nasty little jew's neurotic fantasy.

    People should follow the recent example of the Navajo actors who walked off Adam Sandler’s film set.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    That would stimulate the lefty jibe, in coordinated chorus:

    "Ohhh, poor picked on white people; you have it so hard!"

    It's usually against any straight, white male who complains about maltreatment, no matter how obvious or egregious, but it can also be used against whites as a whole.
  28. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    We Jewish people don't all have an aversion to Anglo White Protestants. It's true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites, but we don't all become bitter Weiner types. Unfortunately, Weiner has a media soapbox, and the media rewards ethnic and gender grievance mongering.

    It’s true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites

    Your fault or theirs? Seems to me that as long as you insist on being a separate people (we jewish people), you are the one responsible for exclusion. Jews want to have their cake and eat it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I'm fine with going along to get along and don't make a big deal of Jewishness if it's not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can't keep it to himself. It doesn't matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it's been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.
    , @Big Bill
    It's nobody's "fault". It is a state of mind. How do you stay physically/emotionally separate from the dominant culture yet at the very same time want to be accepted as "one of the guys"? That psychic struggle forms the core of the galut (diaspora) Jewish mentality.

    But not all Jews suffer from it. A big reason Jews founded Israel was to liberate themselves from 1800 years of the galut mentality by living in their own country, getting their hands dirty, doing their own work and building their own land. And it has worked. Israeli Jews are a much more centered than Exilic Jews. Think Moshe Dayan as opposed to Woody Allen ... or Matthew Weiner.

    In fact, the difference in Jewish types is so striking that Israeli Jews call themselves "Hebrews" (Ivrim) and call Diaspora Jews "Yids" or ... (Yehudonim). It has been so since the earliest days of Zionism. [Arthur Ruppin and the Production of the Modern Hebrew Culture, Etan Bloom, 2008.]

    Exilic Jews and blacks will always be a bit neurotic when they live among WASPs. Both should make aliyah.
  29. @Cagey Beast
    Hollywood just keeps on writing the unauthorized autobiographies of other people. It's really a kind of fraud or malpractice to pretend to tell other people's history and then pass it off to the general public as just an American telling American stories, full stop. Imagine if a German-American made The Sopranos and then said in interviews "yeah, I guess I was driven throughout the series by my strong dislike of East Coast Italians". Would everyone be fine with that?

    David Chase, the showrunner of The Sopranos, is Italian.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Yes exactly and that's why I was making the point that almost everyone would consider it strange and out of bounds for a non-Italian American to have made a series like The Sopranos. I'd find it odd myself and not for lame, New Left reasons. It's strange for someone to critique another ethnic group over many episodes and seasons of a TV series. It comes across as obsessive. Why would someone have that much to get off his chest about another people?
  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @john shade
    Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that anti-semitism "probably" was at work when a teammate on his junior varsity football squad in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick his ass every day. Not only do they occupy the commanding heights of industry in America, they overcame vicious, irrational anti-Semitic hate to get there.

    http://www.superlawyers.com/washington/article/Keep-It-Simple-Stupid/89fccc82-840a-4a05-8b25-3e8dc951a1c8.html


    “I was playing [football], second-string quarterback, going into my junior year,” he says. “I’m calling plays in the very first scrimmage. There’s a guy across the way. He just hated me. I think it was anti-Semitic.
     

    Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that anti-semitism “probably” was at work when a teammate on his junior varsity football squad in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick his ass every day.

    Kicked his ass every day? Either it wasn’t much of an ass kicking or it wasn’t everyday.

    Anyway, why is it that whiny aggrieved types never consider for even so much as a nano second that a person from some other group might not like them because of who they are rather than for the group they are in?

    I’m white and sometimes (gasp) a white person is rude to me or doesn’t seem to like me.

  31. @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Probably a lot to do with his surname being a nick-name for a penis.

    Probably a lot to do with his surname being a nick-name for a penis.

    A nickname for a nicked penis.

  32. Are WASP’s particularly religious these days? I not sure if the Protestant part is quite as important as it used to be, especially for the elites.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Are WASP’s particularly religious these days? I not sure if the Protestant part is quite as important as it used to be, especially for the elites.
     
    Oh, it's doubly important now, and it is very much religious.

    It's just the God part they've left behind.

    "All Protestantism, even the most cold and passive, is a sort of dissent. But the religion most prevalent in our northern colonies is a refinement on the principle of resistance; it is the dissidence of dissent, and the Protestantism of the Protestant religion."

    - Burke
  33. @Anonymous
    We Jewish people don't all have an aversion to Anglo White Protestants. It's true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites, but we don't all become bitter Weiner types. Unfortunately, Weiner has a media soapbox, and the media rewards ethnic and gender grievance mongering.

    Two things that fascinate me are:

    1) Why is the Anglo-Saxon Protestant acronym prefaced with White? Isn’t White assumed? Are there black Anglo-Saxons?

    2) After all the obvious hatred and general despising and loathing Jews feel, and generally dish towards ASPs, why do the ASPs remain the Jews biggest non-Jewish fanclub?

    No matter how many times a Weiner whines what he says above I can only imagine some gentrified ASP in a country club somewhere applauding the Weiner and resolving to invade another Mid East country to make up for the slight.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't know why Steve insists on referring to an important group of core Americans with the vile epithet, "Wasp." You would think he would be happy to use the word Saxon instead. Maybe it is a tic of atavistic hatred from his jewish side.

    I wish he would lay off. It runs counter to his professed desire to foster unity among the American people.

    , @Maj. Kong
    WASP suggests a bicoastal overclass that created the Ivy League, country clubs, etc. This is the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and other Mainline Protestants.

    It doesn't suggest Middle American evangelical Protestants. (MAEP) That's the group that favored neoconservative foreign policy.

    I doubt that leftist Jews really hate their fellow bicoastal liberals, unless they think there is hidden reactionary inside them. Some might.
    , @Dave
    You've got White Protestants and Black Protestants. Among White Protestants, there is a subclass of "Anglo-Saxons."
  34. The person, of course, didn’t know they were in the presence of a Jew.

    They also did not know that your identity, loyalty, and allegiance belonged to another group, even though you purposefully passed yourself off as one of them.

    • Replies: @Beach

    They also did not know that your identity, loyalty, and allegiance belonged to another group, even though you purposefully passed yourself off as one of them.
     
    If Weiner's story's even true. The guy writes fantasy for a living. He has an artistic temperament. His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It's not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past.
  35. @Dave Pinsen
    David Chase, the showrunner of The Sopranos, is Italian.

    Yes exactly and that’s why I was making the point that almost everyone would consider it strange and out of bounds for a non-Italian American to have made a series like The Sopranos. I’d find it odd myself and not for lame, New Left reasons. It’s strange for someone to critique another ethnic group over many episodes and seasons of a TV series. It comes across as obsessive. Why would someone have that much to get off his chest about another people?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Camille Paglia hated The Sopranos for its portrayals of Italian Americans. I thought it was a good show but it did often seem over the top.

    http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/node/1507

    Culture critic Camille Paglia opened her mouth and an attack on “The Sopranos” and the New York media poured out, no pauses for breathing.

    Paglia, a professor of humanities and media studies at the University of the Arts, came to bury Tony Soprano, the anti-hero of HBO’s popular TV show about Italian-American mobsters, at the Gay Talese Lecture in Logan Hall Nov. 1. Smart, funny and outrageous, she drew regular applause from the mostly Italian-American audience of about 170 people.

    As the first of two speakers at the lecture, entitled “Tony Soprano, the Media and Popular Culture,” Paglia declared herself “on the warpath,” fighting the disrespect shown Italian-Americans in Hollywood and in the news media.

    The other speaker picked up the no-respect theme. Richard Benedetto, political columnist for USA Today, spoke only briefly of “The Sopranos.” “Of the last four presidents, who’s more like Tony Soprano than all the others?” he asked. “I think you know who I’m talking about.” Then he took off after former President Bill Clinton. He also launched into a defense of Christopher Columbus. But it was Paglia whose comments kept the audience enthralled.

    “Tony Soprano sitting and having analysis—this is an insult. There may be Italian analysts. I don’t know any.”

    Paglia, a lesbian feminist, attacked the “condescending, high-tech androgynes”—the “haute bourgeoisie media in New York”—who raved about “The Sopranos.”

    “Libelous images of Italian-Americans are being replayed, poured into the culture,” she said. “Italians shouldn’t put up with it anymore.”
     
  36. @Cagey Beast
    The strange thing is that Anglo White Protestants are the people they admire and most want to be around. They used to admire the Germans but that went sour in the mid-1930s. The people who really get them bent out of shape are Old World Catholics and Orthodox folks, especially Slavs.

    They seem to like the Italians just fine.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Is antisemism a deplorable attitude? Is it a morally praiseworthy one? Or is it morally neutral?
    , @Cagey Beast
    Yes they seem to like them but do they admire them?
  37. SFG says:
    @Anonymous
    We Jewish people don't all have an aversion to Anglo White Protestants. It's true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites, but we don't all become bitter Weiner types. Unfortunately, Weiner has a media soapbox, and the media rewards ethnic and gender grievance mongering.

    It’s more than that. With all the push for diversity, you have to have an angle. The only way to get away with making a series about the heyday of WASP America is to claim you’re deconstructing it. A lot of the popularity of the show has to do with its depicting the last time when America really felt strong and sure of itself; that’s why the huge retro love for the 50s (the cultural era Mad Men was the tag end of).

    Not to say that Weiner doesn’t actually have these resentments, but he could also be playing a double game, like Sacha Baron Cohen–claiming you’re unmasking racism while actually getting to make jokes about prostitution and incest. He can make money off the 50s and attack them at the same time.

    • Replies: @jjbees
    I think this is a huge part of it:

    "Hey, how do we make a show where all the actors are all white people doing white people things, so intelligent SWPLs with money to spend will want to watch our show and we can make serious ad revenue?"

    "I know, let's make it historical, and we can tell em' we're deconstructing it! They always buy it!"

    So you get:

    Game of Thrones
    Vikings
    Downton Abbey
    Mad Men
    The Sopranos

    The common thread is that this sort of stuff is an excuse to revel and exult in whiteness. Weiner is a self-hating jew who makes white power propaganda, and gets rich off it. The only question is if he knows what's going on and just knows the right stuff to say, or if he is really that full of self-hatred and psychopathology.
  38. @SFG
    They seem to like the Italians just fine.

    Is antisemism a deplorable attitude? Is it a morally praiseworthy one? Or is it morally neutral?

  39. @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Probably a lot to do with his surname being a nick-name for a penis.

    Not really. You’re mixing up Weiner and Wiener. Wiener means “from Vienna” and is thus the one with a hot dog conotation. Whereas Weiner comes from the German word for wine and thus has nothing to do with wieners.

    • Replies: @Dave
    So when woman says she wants a big weiner, she's really saying she wants a big glass of wine?
    , @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Young Mathew on the school playground - "I'm not a dick! I'm a bottle of wine!"
    , @PV van der Byl
    Well, there is the German noun Wein, meaning wine, in English.

    There is also the verb weinen, meaning crying in English. So, a Weiner is a cry-baby or a "whiner."

    And Yiddish is a German dialect.
  40. @SFG
    They seem to like the Italians just fine.

    Yes they seem to like them but do they admire them?

  41. @Pat Hannagan
    Two things that fascinate me are:

    1) Why is the Anglo-Saxon Protestant acronym prefaced with White? Isn't White assumed? Are there black Anglo-Saxons?

    2) After all the obvious hatred and general despising and loathing Jews feel, and generally dish towards ASPs, why do the ASPs remain the Jews biggest non-Jewish fanclub?

    No matter how many times a Weiner whines what he says above I can only imagine some gentrified ASP in a country club somewhere applauding the Weiner and resolving to invade another Mid East country to make up for the slight.

    I don’t know why Steve insists on referring to an important group of core Americans with the vile epithet, “Wasp.” You would think he would be happy to use the word Saxon instead. Maybe it is a tic of atavistic hatred from his jewish side.

    I wish he would lay off. It runs counter to his professed desire to foster unity among the American people.

    • Replies: @anon

    I don’t know why Steve insists on referring to an important group of core Americans with the vile epithet, “Wasp.”
     
    Never whine.
  42. @Steve Sailer
    Probably the funniest, most cutting teasing over being named Weiner was from other Jewish kids whose dads were comedy writers.

    Jewish culture has this useful habit of redirecting memories of internal unpleasantries onto outsiders.

  43. How reliable is jewish memory?

  44. OT but I was just watching a recent interview with Jean-Marie Le Pen. He talks about his schism with his daughter, how he doesn’t like homosexuals “who hunt in packs” when they engage in politics and says he’s working to form a new political coalition around himself. The veteran journalist doing the interview asks him how long he’s going to keep this up. He says “until death, alas!” and then throws his head back in laughter. She looks at him with an expression on her face that says “this dog is totally off the chain!”

    It reminded me of what Alain Soral said about J-M Le Pen and why Soral enjoyed being on the central commitee of the party under him:

    “He’s a political artist. I loved the unpredictable, artistic nature of the FN with him at the head. Marine Le Pen doesn’t think politics is an art, she thinks it’s a trade. She’s going to ruin the FN like women ruined the Communist Party in France.”

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    Reading between the lines, Jean Le Pen was the kept dissident who made money and allowed to be the Hitler living face of dissidence. But had no intention of being anything other than a lucrative clown show. He made money selling France down the river. His daughter intends to actually take power not run a Fred Phelps cult con job.
    ,.......
    Weiner? Made a lot of money writing bad boy porn for upscale women and trying to cloak it with pc respectability. He's a fraud like Jean Le Pen.

    You don't see him writing Muslims killing Jews now do you? Its instead non stop sexy bad boys to thrill the ladies. He's a pornographer with pious humbuggery. Nothing more.
  45. @Mike Zwick
    Having grown up in a blue collar area all of this is very alien to me. The idea that all white people lived these Mad Men privileged lives is bizarre and it shows how out of touch the people on any side of this are, Jew or not Jew. The definition of success in my America was being able to pay off the house.

    No kidding. My mother is in her early 50s. Success for her family growing up was being able to afford an upgrade from the outhouse to indoor plumbing. They got a toilet around 1968- she was 6 years old. I am only one generation removed from an outhouse.

    Her family was far from being the poorest in her hometown, too. They were considered lower middle class, respectable blue collar types.

    People like Weiner haven’t the slightest clue what life was like in the rest of the country. They assume the American experience begins and ends in the suburbs of New York, LA, and Chicago.

    • Replies: @Mike Zwick
    My father grew up on a North Dakota farm with no running water or electricity. They plowed the fields with teams of horses! He moved to Chicago in the 50's and worked in a steel mill while my mom worked in a plastics factory.
  46. Steve,

    Please explore how the Tribe came to Europa, and didn’t stay/ explore/build out the traditional Jewish archipelago of communities in the Arab middle east and Persia.

    Like Luther said,no one invited them to Europe(his famous antidentite diatribes came after reading the insults of Jesus Christ in the taunts of the talmud).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You've never heard of the Jewish revolts against Roman rule or the actions of the Roman emperors Vespasian, Titus and Hadrian? Trade brought Jews to southern Europe before the Jewish revolts, but the suppression of the revolts brought many more. In the Carolingian period, it was not unheard of for a high ranking prelate to invite Jews to settle in a town to promote trade and to benefit from their taxation. For instance, see Bishop Rudiger of Speyer's note written in 1084.
  47. @Anonymous
    We Jewish people don't all have an aversion to Anglo White Protestants. It's true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites, but we don't all become bitter Weiner types. Unfortunately, Weiner has a media soapbox, and the media rewards ethnic and gender grievance mongering.

    As someone from a British-derived White Protestant background, I’m starting to feel like an outsider. It kind of sucks. I totally get it now.

  48. @International Jew
    Not really. You're mixing up Weiner and Wiener. Wiener means "from Vienna" and is thus the one with a hot dog conotation. Whereas Weiner comes from the German word for wine and thus has nothing to do with wieners.

    So when woman says she wants a big weiner, she’s really saying she wants a big glass of wine?

    • Replies: @International Jew
    No, the point is that she's saying "wiener", not "weiner".
  49. Re “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.”

    Sometimes people just need to be told that they are rude. It doesn’t have to mean anything about their ethnicity or anything else. To imagine otherwise is mildly delusional.
    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Re “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.”

    Sometimes people just need to be told that they are rude. It doesn’t have to mean anything about their ethnicity or anything else. To imagine otherwise is mildly delusional.


    What if certain ethnicities do tend to be ruder or more aggressive than others? (And wouldn't human biodiversity predict that to be the case?) Is there something wrong with noticing that?
  50. I’m going to start telling people I call my dog a weiner dog because he’s shaped like a bottle of wine.

  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ivy
    Re “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.”

    Sometimes people just need to be told that they are rude. It doesn't have to mean anything about their ethnicity or anything else. To imagine otherwise is mildly delusional.
    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    Re “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.”

    Sometimes people just need to be told that they are rude. It doesn’t have to mean anything about their ethnicity or anything else. To imagine otherwise is mildly delusional.

    What if certain ethnicities do tend to be ruder or more aggressive than others? (And wouldn’t human biodiversity predict that to be the case?) Is there something wrong with noticing that?

  52. Well, Weiner saw it out to the bitter end. You’ve got to give him credit for perseverance. My God, to have the stamina and physical well-being to be able to hate so much every morning you wake up, driven by it, day in, day out.

    1. He killed off his most hated character in the show–Betty Draper (the ultimate, blue-eyed blonde shiksa, the type of girl every Jewish boy beat off to incessantly from the time he was ten or eleven)–by giving her lung cancer in her late 30s and having her sitting silently and coldly at the kitchen table smoking a cigarette while her daughter washed dishes in the background, the same daughter who’d just left college to watch out for her dying mother. It was absolutely brutal and vulgar, a gleeful killing, had be watched to be believed. I’ve never seen a character treated less sympathetically in a so-called high brow drama.

    2. He made the main WASP character the author of all that liberals and progressives think is wrong with this country–cynical corporate consumerism–because, as we know, WASPs have absolutely dominated advertising and media since WW2–it’s not even close. After suffering a near mental and physical breakdown, Don Draper finds himself at a hippie commune type retreat, knows he’s made his life and the lives of his closest and dearest shit, and just when everyone thought he would jump off the cliff and into the Pacific–the commune is CA, of course–he finds humanity in another WASPish (if much less impressive and important) person and is rejuvenated. He greets a brilliant CA morning in a Yoga Session surrounded by other middle-aged hippies and the idea for a new ad campaign hits him–the show ends with Coke’s famous 1971 commercial about Coke being the real thing–the Hilltop commercial.

    We’re made to understand, WASPs never change, there’s no spiritual depth there whatever (unlike all those “outsiders”). Draper is just onto his latest manic-depressive cycle of brilliant creation followed by tawdry collapse. More important, WASPs use people and things–the environment, others’ emotions, etc. It’s just the way they are.

    Absolutely appalling–again, Weiner demonstrated no sympathy whatever for his main character, he pins all that is awful in America on him, treats him as some demi-demon type figure we should all be afraid of. The Koch brothers all rolled into one in 1970.

    Amazing. No introspection or artistry in Weiner–everything was driven by hatred and anger. And people will applaud his performance.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "1. He killed off his most hated character in the show–Betty Draper (the ultimate, blue-eyed blonde shiksa, the type of girl every Jewish boy beat off to incessantly from the time he was ten or eleven)"

    We never saw Betty die on screen. Also a fondness for blue eyed blonde Northern European chicks is not limited to Jewish guys. I am Italian and my first big childhood crush on an actress was Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.

  53. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I wonder if the goy actors know they're but bit players in some nasty little jew's neurotic fantasy.

    Actors aren’t that bright in general and don’t care if they’re getting fame and fortune, especially if the subtext is too subtle for them and most of the audience to grasp.

  54. @SFG
    It's more than that. With all the push for diversity, you have to have an angle. The only way to get away with making a series about the heyday of WASP America is to claim you're deconstructing it. A lot of the popularity of the show has to do with its depicting the last time when America really felt strong and sure of itself; that's why the huge retro love for the 50s (the cultural era Mad Men was the tag end of).

    Not to say that Weiner doesn't actually have these resentments, but he could also be playing a double game, like Sacha Baron Cohen--claiming you're unmasking racism while actually getting to make jokes about prostitution and incest. He can make money off the 50s and attack them at the same time.

    I think this is a huge part of it:

    “Hey, how do we make a show where all the actors are all white people doing white people things, so intelligent SWPLs with money to spend will want to watch our show and we can make serious ad revenue?”

    “I know, let’s make it historical, and we can tell em’ we’re deconstructing it! They always buy it!”

    So you get:

    Game of Thrones
    Vikings
    Downton Abbey
    Mad Men
    The Sopranos

    The common thread is that this sort of stuff is an excuse to revel and exult in whiteness. Weiner is a self-hating jew who makes white power propaganda, and gets rich off it. The only question is if he knows what’s going on and just knows the right stuff to say, or if he is really that full of self-hatred and psychopathology.

    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    I think you've nailed it. There's fame and fortune to be found in smuggling forbidden psychological fruits to upwardly mobile audiences. (And if there's one thing all the feminists on my Facebook feed have in common, it's that Don Draper makes their panties sopping wet.)

    I'm starting to think that drama is the new comedy. There was a time when sophisticated, thinking-men's comedians offered a respite from the political correctness of the day. There was an outlet for people who were pretty much on board with goodthink but needed a little space to breath. Now it's difficult to find a comedian whose tone is anything but smug holier-than-thou-ness. Amy Schumer's whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place. Well, too bad, you're watching it, you sexist pig. Now here's a commercial break.
    , @SFG
    That's pretty much what I was saying, but you said it a lot better. :)

    Exactly. "We're uh...deconstructing the 1950s!" and then they meticulously reconstruct the period so everyone can groove on the hairstyles, music, and dress. And toss in a few PC storylines so people can feel good about watching a story about a 'racist' decade.
  55. Since when does a West Coast jewish boy go to Wesleyan?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    All the time. Wesleyan is a big pipeline to Hollywood.
    , @Anonymous
    Lots of Californians go to college in the Northeast in general.
  56. Back when the New York Stock Exchanged was created in 1792, there were 24 signatories. 5 of those signatories were Jewish, at a time when Jews were far less than 0.1 percent of America’s population.

    If WASPs historically worked to exclude Jews from the establishment, they obviously weren’t trying very hard – even as far back as the late 1700s.

    Of course that’s not the point. Jewish leaders understand that maintaining Jewish solidarity requires setting up a boogeyman to keep the Jewish population in a state of perpetual fear, anger, and loathing. If Jewish intellectuals have to falsify history to make Jews seem like marginalized outsiders, that’s a small price to pay for maintaining Jewish ethnic identity.

    • Replies: @IBC
    For one early WASP perspective on Jews, see George Washington's "Letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island" written in 1790:

    It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

    It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my administration and fervent wishes for my felicity.

    May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants—while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.
     

    http://www.tourosynagogue.org/history-learning/gw-letter
  57. […] SAILER: Matthew Weiner Explains “Mad Men” Is About “White Power”. Weiner says, “These men don’t take no for an answer, they build these big businesses, these […]

  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Cagey Beast
    Yes exactly and that's why I was making the point that almost everyone would consider it strange and out of bounds for a non-Italian American to have made a series like The Sopranos. I'd find it odd myself and not for lame, New Left reasons. It's strange for someone to critique another ethnic group over many episodes and seasons of a TV series. It comes across as obsessive. Why would someone have that much to get off his chest about another people?

    Camille Paglia hated The Sopranos for its portrayals of Italian Americans. I thought it was a good show but it did often seem over the top.

    http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/current/node/1507

    Culture critic Camille Paglia opened her mouth and an attack on “The Sopranos” and the New York media poured out, no pauses for breathing.

    Paglia, a professor of humanities and media studies at the University of the Arts, came to bury Tony Soprano, the anti-hero of HBO’s popular TV show about Italian-American mobsters, at the Gay Talese Lecture in Logan Hall Nov. 1. Smart, funny and outrageous, she drew regular applause from the mostly Italian-American audience of about 170 people.

    As the first of two speakers at the lecture, entitled “Tony Soprano, the Media and Popular Culture,” Paglia declared herself “on the warpath,” fighting the disrespect shown Italian-Americans in Hollywood and in the news media.

    The other speaker picked up the no-respect theme. Richard Benedetto, political columnist for USA Today, spoke only briefly of “The Sopranos.” “Of the last four presidents, who’s more like Tony Soprano than all the others?” he asked. “I think you know who I’m talking about.” Then he took off after former President Bill Clinton. He also launched into a defense of Christopher Columbus. But it was Paglia whose comments kept the audience enthralled.

    “Tony Soprano sitting and having analysis—this is an insult. There may be Italian analysts. I don’t know any.”

    Paglia, a lesbian feminist, attacked the “condescending, high-tech androgynes”—the “haute bourgeoisie media in New York”—who raved about “The Sopranos.”

    “Libelous images of Italian-Americans are being replayed, poured into the culture,” she said. “Italians shouldn’t put up with it anymore.”

  59. One other point about Don Draper in Mad Men. In appearance, he’s the ultimate square-jawed WASP–the QB in high school who had all the chicks, but Weiner spent a ton of time showing that this appearance wasn’t remotely close to reality. Draper was, in fact, the son of a prostitute and drunk, whose cowardly bumblings (he pisses his pants during an artillery barrage and drops a lighter) result in the death of his CO during the Korean War, and Draper simply exchanges dog tags with the CO, taking on his identity and making possible everything he did from there forward. For Weiner, he’s a thief and a fraud at root.

    It was just one more of Weiner’s reminders that no matter how good-looking and tall and debonair the WASP may appear, there’s something extraordinarily seedy and fake about him. Quite like Disraeli’s insult to an uppity Irishmen, “Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That's been sort of a common trope in American entertainment for a while - the seemingly happy, middle American suburban family life in reality conceals dark demons like a loveless marriage, abuse, emotional coldness, alcoholism, repressed sexuality, latent homosexuality, etc.
    , @Anonymous
    Daniel O'Connell insulted Disraeli first and raised the issue of his Jewish origins. From wiki:

    "The Irish MP Daniel O'Connell, misled by inaccurate press reports, thought Disraeli had slandered him while electioneering at Taunton; he launched an outspoken attack, referring to Disraeli as:

    'a reptile ... just fit now, after being twice discarded by the people, to become a Conservative. He possesses all the necessary requisites of perfidy, selfishness, depravity, want of principle, etc., which would qualify him for the change. His name shows that he is of Jewish origin. I do not use it as a term of reproach; there are many most respectable Jews. But there are, as in every other people, some of the lowest and most disgusting grade of moral turpitude; and of those I look upon Mr. Disraeli as the worst.'"
  60. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I think that photo is most of it.

    Weiner wants/always wanted to look like the actor – understandably – and he resents the people who looked like that at his school.

    And he does have a point in a way – yeah brains and all etc but at the end of the day tall good-looking men get a relatively easy ride in life unless they deliberately make it hard on themselves.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Do you know what good-looking actors have to do to become actors? Good-looking actors do not have an easy ride to acting careers. Hollywood is run by a gay mafia.
  61. @jocko
    Since when does a West Coast jewish boy go to Wesleyan?

    All the time. Wesleyan is a big pipeline to Hollywood.

  62. @Anonymous
    I don't know why Steve insists on referring to an important group of core Americans with the vile epithet, "Wasp." You would think he would be happy to use the word Saxon instead. Maybe it is a tic of atavistic hatred from his jewish side.

    I wish he would lay off. It runs counter to his professed desire to foster unity among the American people.

    I don’t know why Steve insists on referring to an important group of core Americans with the vile epithet, “Wasp.”

    Never whine.

  63. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I was very good-looking in my youth (not quite so much now 🙂 ) but shorter than tall so I got the treatment from short women and a bit from average height but hardly at all from tall women so I could see the difference in behavior.

    And at various times I had tall good-looking friends who I had a love/hate attitude towards.

    S0… I wonder if DNA editing to average out male height might be the cure to the world’s problems?

    • Replies: @Romanian
    No, it will start a DNA arms race which will see men becoming 5 m tall freaks. Or the ridiculous height might be confined to a few weirdos, but so many new men will crowd the desirable height range that the whole notion will be devalued, not gaining them much in the end (because of personality etc etc), while the men who stay at their normal size start getting left out. Didn't the same happen to breasts?

    Steve should do an article on racial difference in plastic surgery and body modification.
  64. Lots of Italian-Americans and Irish-American youth love the whole mafia/thug stereotype. It makes them seem cool and glamorous. It’s also very endearing to lots of women.

    Especially these days with WASPs being portrayed as boring and unhip, there’s definitely a glamor factor to claiming your family used to belong to the mafia.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The funny thing is the Mafiosi on The Sopranos weren't portrayed glamorously at all. They were shown as brutal, crude, disloyal, tacky, and uneducated.

    It's the same phenomenon with war movies. It's impossible to make an antiwar movie that will be viewed as such by young men who join the military.
    , @Jefferson
    "Lots of Italian-Americans and Irish-American youth love the whole mafia/thug stereotype. It makes them seem cool and glamorous. It’s also very endearing to lots of women.

    Especially these days with WASPs being portrayed as boring and unhip, there’s definitely a glamor factor to claiming your family used to belong to the mafia."

    The organized crime "stereotype" is associated way more with my people the Italians than it is with the Irish. There is a reason why there are very few Hollywood films about Irish gangsters. You even see more Hollywood films about Russian gangsters than you do about Irish gangsters.
  65. @Anonymous
    A suggested edit, Steve. You write:

    Like Johnny Rotten said, “Anger is an energy.” It doesn’t really matter if the reasons for your anger are obviously absurd and ugly.

    It is hatred what is going on here, not anger. Anger suggests an external, often objectively legitimate, cause.

    It is hatred what is going on here, not anger.

    And he found the perfect man for the (hit) job:

    http://www.mercurynews.com/celebrities/ci_27887145/jon-hamm-hazing-mad-men-star-set-pledge

    No biggie, though, just libeling American history.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Indeed, Desiderius. It appears we may have another instance of a physically dominant German bullying a jew. From the article:

    Pledge Mark Allen Sanders claims in the 1991 lawsuit that Hamm was "mad, I mean really mad" when Sanders failed to recite something he was supposed to memorize. As punishment, Sanders said in the lawsuit, "(Hamm) rears back and hits me left-handed, and he hit me right over my right kidney, I mean square over it.

  66. @jocko
    Since when does a West Coast jewish boy go to Wesleyan?

    Lots of Californians go to college in the Northeast in general.

  67. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    It’s true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites

    Your fault or theirs? Seems to me that as long as you insist on being a separate people (we jewish people), you are the one responsible for exclusion. Jews want to have their cake and eat it.

    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I’m fine with going along to get along and don’t make a big deal of Jewishness if it’s not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can’t keep it to himself. It doesn’t matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it’s been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.

    • Replies: @OsRazor
    Are you talking about Philo-Semitism among Whites or have you been watching too much South Park recently? There just aren't a lot of Cartman's out there. I can't imagine anyone in a group of Whites singling you out as a Jew and wanting to ostracize you. The less sophisticated might treat you as a rare sort of exotic--a real "Chosen" person in their midst--but that's about it.
    , @Anonymous
    On the contrary, I find that many jews can't seem to help themselves from reminding all they encounter that they are jewish.
    , @Rifleman

    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. ...I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can’t keep it to himself. ......It doesn’t matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it’s been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.
     
    Reminds me of all the insecure, neurotic comedians who meantion performing for a large crowd who love his act but he can't stop fixating on or remembering that one guy who isn't laughing.

    "That guy" is always out there.
    , @Gallo-Roman

    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name...in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can’t keep it to himself.
     
    This happens to anyone with a strongly "ethnic" name and appearance. You and "Red" O'Reilly and Lars "Swede" Gustafson can get together and have a pity-party.

    Lars and Red would probably get annoyed with your whining and kick your ass, though. (Every day!)
  68. @Cagey Beast
    The strange thing is that Anglo White Protestants are the people they admire and most want to be around. They used to admire the Germans but that went sour in the mid-1930s. The people who really get them bent out of shape are Old World Catholics and Orthodox folks, especially Slavs.

    Anglo White Protestants are…

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?
     
    The whole appearance of the term "WASP" has always seemed pretty puzzling to me for exactly that sort of reason. Obviously, virtually all Anglo-Saxons are white. And I think that all but a tiny fraction of American Anglo-Saxons were Protestant. So the group described as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant" is essentially identical to the group described as "Anglo-Saxon."

    Strangely enough, throughout almost all of American history that particular group was indeed called "Anglo-Saxon" for such totally logical reasons. That's why Mexicans and other Latin Americans often use the shortened term "Anglo." Then some time after WWII it was gradually replaced by "WASP."

    When there's a correctly descriptive term that has been in use for centuries, it's quite odd for it to suddenly be replaced by much less accurate term, and I've always wondered how that came about. Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the "elite WASPS" and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.
  69. @OsRazor
    One other point about Don Draper in Mad Men. In appearance, he's the ultimate square-jawed WASP--the QB in high school who had all the chicks, but Weiner spent a ton of time showing that this appearance wasn't remotely close to reality. Draper was, in fact, the son of a prostitute and drunk, whose cowardly bumblings (he pisses his pants during an artillery barrage and drops a lighter) result in the death of his CO during the Korean War, and Draper simply exchanges dog tags with the CO, taking on his identity and making possible everything he did from there forward. For Weiner, he's a thief and a fraud at root.

    It was just one more of Weiner's reminders that no matter how good-looking and tall and debonair the WASP may appear, there's something extraordinarily seedy and fake about him. Quite like Disraeli's insult to an uppity Irishmen, "Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon."

    That’s been sort of a common trope in American entertainment for a while – the seemingly happy, middle American suburban family life in reality conceals dark demons like a loveless marriage, abuse, emotional coldness, alcoholism, repressed sexuality, latent homosexuality, etc.

    • Replies: @OsRazor
    You raise a good point, but I think it goes even deeper than that for Weiner. Weiner's saying much of American life (for Jews) until recently was this desperate, almost irrational desire to assimilate and become WASP-like in disposition, dress, attitude, etc. Mad Men is all about his exposure of just how stupid that whole effort was, why trying to be like WASPs wasn't only pointless, since they would always exclude and abuse you, but a morally corrupting, soul destroying act. Draper's journey from bastard child of a prostitute to the epitome of WASP privilege makes that argument continually. Weiner is saying--"Look fellow Jews. Is that what our parents and we wanted to emulate all this time? Some soulless bastard thing like Don Draper? We're better than them, much more noble, so stop it and don't feel bad for even a fleeting moment at insults and slights you might have suffered with WASPs. They're not worth it. Good riddance."
    , @Jeff W.
    As Susan Sontag wrote, "The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone—its ideologies and inventions—which eradicates autonomous civilizations wherever it spreads, which has upset the ecological balance of the planet, which now threatens the very existence of life itself."

    The suburbs are full of white people. Do you think they are good?
    , @Derrick
    You just gave the perfect synopsis of the Loud family. a very popular, and maybe the first "reality show" from the seventies.
  70. Steve is being especially heavy handed in censoring comments to this thread, while letting the jewish apologists run free.

  71. @Dew
    Are WASP's particularly religious these days? I not sure if the Protestant part is quite as important as it used to be, especially for the elites.

    Are WASP’s particularly religious these days? I not sure if the Protestant part is quite as important as it used to be, especially for the elites.

    Oh, it’s doubly important now, and it is very much religious.

    It’s just the God part they’ve left behind.

    “All Protestantism, even the most cold and passive, is a sort of dissent. But the religion most prevalent in our northern colonies is a refinement on the principle of resistance; it is the dissidence of dissent, and the Protestantism of the Protestant religion.”

    – Burke

  72. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @OsRazor
    One other point about Don Draper in Mad Men. In appearance, he's the ultimate square-jawed WASP--the QB in high school who had all the chicks, but Weiner spent a ton of time showing that this appearance wasn't remotely close to reality. Draper was, in fact, the son of a prostitute and drunk, whose cowardly bumblings (he pisses his pants during an artillery barrage and drops a lighter) result in the death of his CO during the Korean War, and Draper simply exchanges dog tags with the CO, taking on his identity and making possible everything he did from there forward. For Weiner, he's a thief and a fraud at root.

    It was just one more of Weiner's reminders that no matter how good-looking and tall and debonair the WASP may appear, there's something extraordinarily seedy and fake about him. Quite like Disraeli's insult to an uppity Irishmen, "Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon."

    Daniel O’Connell insulted Disraeli first and raised the issue of his Jewish origins. From wiki:

    “The Irish MP Daniel O’Connell, misled by inaccurate press reports, thought Disraeli had slandered him while electioneering at Taunton; he launched an outspoken attack, referring to Disraeli as:

    ‘a reptile … just fit now, after being twice discarded by the people, to become a Conservative. He possesses all the necessary requisites of perfidy, selfishness, depravity, want of principle, etc., which would qualify him for the change. His name shows that he is of Jewish origin. I do not use it as a term of reproach; there are many most respectable Jews. But there are, as in every other people, some of the lowest and most disgusting grade of moral turpitude; and of those I look upon Mr. Disraeli as the worst.’”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    O'Connell did have a bit of a point about Disraeli personally. Disraeli's is an amazing story, kind of like Dr. Oz becoming President. Or kind of like if the first black President had been Richard Pryor or James Brown.
    , @IBC
    In the 1850s or very early 1860s, there was a very similar exchange between Senator Benjamin Wade of Ohio (later a Radical Republican) and Judah P. Benjamin, then a senator from Louisiana, but who later on was a prominent Confederate cabinet member and advisor to Jefferson Davis. Supposedly, he was the first Jewish person to hold such a position in any North American government.

    ... his [Judah P. Benjamin's] prominence as a Jew assured that he would come under harsh scrutiny, both during and after his life. For example, on the floor of the Senate Ben Wade of Ohio charged Benjamin with being an “Israelite in Egyptian clothing.” With characteristic eloquence, Benjamin replied, “It is true that I am a Jew, and when my ancestors were receiving their Ten Commandments from the immediate Deity, amidst the thundering and lightnings of Mt. Sinai, the ancestors of my opponent were herding swine in the forests of Great Britain.
     
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Benjamin.html

    I'm not sure of the exact year, but the O'Connell/Disraeli incident happened in 1835, so perhaps Judah Benjamin had read about Disraeli's response and thereafter kept it mentally on hand as future personal comeback material.

    Interestingly, Judah P. Benjamin was actually married to a Roman Catholic woman, although their marriage was very troubled and they eventually become estranged. Apparently, based on some of the details of his personal life and contemporary historical insinuations, some historians are now even suggesting that he was actually gay. If that's true, it's good news for Gay History Month!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin
  73. @Anonymous
    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I'm fine with going along to get along and don't make a big deal of Jewishness if it's not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can't keep it to himself. It doesn't matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it's been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.

    Are you talking about Philo-Semitism among Whites or have you been watching too much South Park recently? There just aren’t a lot of Cartman’s out there. I can’t imagine anyone in a group of Whites singling you out as a Jew and wanting to ostracize you. The less sophisticated might treat you as a rare sort of exotic–a real “Chosen” person in their midst–but that’s about it.

  74. @Anonymous
    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I'm fine with going along to get along and don't make a big deal of Jewishness if it's not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can't keep it to himself. It doesn't matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it's been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.

    On the contrary, I find that many jews can’t seem to help themselves from reminding all they encounter that they are jewish.

    • Replies: @Anon
    This. I went to a state school that was largely Jewish and was surrounded by Jewish people. They cannot help themselves.
  75. @JohnnyWalker123
    Lots of Italian-Americans and Irish-American youth love the whole mafia/thug stereotype. It makes them seem cool and glamorous. It's also very endearing to lots of women.

    Especially these days with WASPs being portrayed as boring and unhip, there's definitely a glamor factor to claiming your family used to belong to the mafia.

    The funny thing is the Mafiosi on The Sopranos weren’t portrayed glamorously at all. They were shown as brutal, crude, disloyal, tacky, and uneducated.

    It’s the same phenomenon with war movies. It’s impossible to make an antiwar movie that will be viewed as such by young men who join the military.

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
    "It’s impossible to make an antiwar movie that will be viewed as such by young men who join the military."

    Johnny Got His Gun?
  76. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    It is hatred what is going on here, not anger.
     
    And he found the perfect man for the (hit) job:

    http://www.mercurynews.com/celebrities/ci_27887145/jon-hamm-hazing-mad-men-star-set-pledge

    No biggie, though, just libeling American history.

    Indeed, Desiderius. It appears we may have another instance of a physically dominant German bullying a jew. From the article:

    Pledge Mark Allen Sanders claims in the 1991 lawsuit that Hamm was “mad, I mean really mad” when Sanders failed to recite something he was supposed to memorize. As punishment, Sanders said in the lawsuit, “(Hamm) rears back and hits me left-handed, and he hit me right over my right kidney, I mean square over it.

  77. @International Jew
    Not really. You're mixing up Weiner and Wiener. Wiener means "from Vienna" and is thus the one with a hot dog conotation. Whereas Weiner comes from the German word for wine and thus has nothing to do with wieners.

    Young Mathew on the school playground – “I’m not a dick! I’m a bottle of wine!”

  78. Weiner’s psychodrama goes back to the Old Testament where supposedly Jews are selected as God’s chosen people.

    The problem is that Whitey has been making a strong case for thousands of years now that it is he who is God’s chosen people.

  79. @Anonymous
    Anglo White Protestants are...

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?

    The whole appearance of the term “WASP” has always seemed pretty puzzling to me for exactly that sort of reason. Obviously, virtually all Anglo-Saxons are white. And I think that all but a tiny fraction of American Anglo-Saxons were Protestant. So the group described as “White Anglo-Saxon Protestant” is essentially identical to the group described as “Anglo-Saxon.”

    Strangely enough, throughout almost all of American history that particular group was indeed called “Anglo-Saxon” for such totally logical reasons. That’s why Mexicans and other Latin Americans often use the shortened term “Anglo.” Then some time after WWII it was gradually replaced by “WASP.”

    When there’s a correctly descriptive term that has been in use for centuries, it’s quite odd for it to suddenly be replaced by much less accurate term, and I’ve always wondered how that came about. Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the “elite WASPS” and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the “elite WASPS” and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    Perhaps, Ron, but then why not just use Saxon elites, or some such? Further, the lack of consensus as to the referent of WASP--the term's generalized failure in serving such a "distinguishing" function--calls into question such a purpose. It now represents a kind of bogeyman or whipping boy that is little in evidence in real life.

    Of course, the simplest explanation is that racial epithets are useful to those who use them and the spread of this one just happened to councide with the rise to power of Weiner's identity group, in sociology departments and elsewhere.

    But you raise some good questions. Thank you for your comment.

    , @Desiderius

    Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the “elite WASPS” and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.
     
    That's what it meant when I was growing up in the midwest. It was a way to say "Yankee" without people thinking you were from the South.
    , @Occupant

    "The whole appearance of the term “WASP” has always seemed pretty puzzling to me [...]"
     
    The term WASP gained currency with the publication of (the ever dapper) E. Digby Baltzell’s 1964 book The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America. Before that, Wikipedia tells us, the first published mention of the term was in 1957 by sociologist Andrew Hacker. According to Hacker’s usage, the ‘W’ stood for ‘Wealthy’ rather than ‘White’ (which makes more sense because less redundant).

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant. Hacker’s usage makes more sense though because the term is usually used to refer to upper-class whites -- usually Old Money, New Money, or Ivy League educated.
  80. @Anonymous
    That's been sort of a common trope in American entertainment for a while - the seemingly happy, middle American suburban family life in reality conceals dark demons like a loveless marriage, abuse, emotional coldness, alcoholism, repressed sexuality, latent homosexuality, etc.

    You raise a good point, but I think it goes even deeper than that for Weiner. Weiner’s saying much of American life (for Jews) until recently was this desperate, almost irrational desire to assimilate and become WASP-like in disposition, dress, attitude, etc. Mad Men is all about his exposure of just how stupid that whole effort was, why trying to be like WASPs wasn’t only pointless, since they would always exclude and abuse you, but a morally corrupting, soul destroying act. Draper’s journey from bastard child of a prostitute to the epitome of WASP privilege makes that argument continually. Weiner is saying–“Look fellow Jews. Is that what our parents and we wanted to emulate all this time? Some soulless bastard thing like Don Draper? We’re better than them, much more noble, so stop it and don’t feel bad for even a fleeting moment at insults and slights you might have suffered with WASPs. They’re not worth it. Good riddance.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Good connent.
  81. @JohnnyWalker123
    Lots of Italian-Americans and Irish-American youth love the whole mafia/thug stereotype. It makes them seem cool and glamorous. It's also very endearing to lots of women.

    Especially these days with WASPs being portrayed as boring and unhip, there's definitely a glamor factor to claiming your family used to belong to the mafia.

    “Lots of Italian-Americans and Irish-American youth love the whole mafia/thug stereotype. It makes them seem cool and glamorous. It’s also very endearing to lots of women.

    Especially these days with WASPs being portrayed as boring and unhip, there’s definitely a glamor factor to claiming your family used to belong to the mafia.”

    The organized crime “stereotype” is associated way more with my people the Italians than it is with the Irish. There is a reason why there are very few Hollywood films about Irish gangsters. You even see more Hollywood films about Russian gangsters than you do about Irish gangsters.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    I've often wondered why there are so few films or TV shows about Irish-American gangsters. You seem to be saying it's because few people associate organised crime with the Irish, but surely that's a circular argument, seeing that it's Hollywood that generates many of these popular perceptions in the first place.
  82. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?
     
    The whole appearance of the term "WASP" has always seemed pretty puzzling to me for exactly that sort of reason. Obviously, virtually all Anglo-Saxons are white. And I think that all but a tiny fraction of American Anglo-Saxons were Protestant. So the group described as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant" is essentially identical to the group described as "Anglo-Saxon."

    Strangely enough, throughout almost all of American history that particular group was indeed called "Anglo-Saxon" for such totally logical reasons. That's why Mexicans and other Latin Americans often use the shortened term "Anglo." Then some time after WWII it was gradually replaced by "WASP."

    When there's a correctly descriptive term that has been in use for centuries, it's quite odd for it to suddenly be replaced by much less accurate term, and I've always wondered how that came about. Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the "elite WASPS" and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the “elite WASPS” and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    Perhaps, Ron, but then why not just use Saxon elites, or some such? Further, the lack of consensus as to the referent of WASP–the term’s generalized failure in serving such a “distinguishing” function–calls into question such a purpose. It now represents a kind of bogeyman or whipping boy that is little in evidence in real life.

    Of course, the simplest explanation is that racial epithets are useful to those who use them and the spread of this one just happened to councide with the rise to power of Weiner’s identity group, in sociology departments and elsewhere.

    But you raise some good questions. Thank you for your comment.

  83. @Ron Unz

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?
     
    The whole appearance of the term "WASP" has always seemed pretty puzzling to me for exactly that sort of reason. Obviously, virtually all Anglo-Saxons are white. And I think that all but a tiny fraction of American Anglo-Saxons were Protestant. So the group described as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant" is essentially identical to the group described as "Anglo-Saxon."

    Strangely enough, throughout almost all of American history that particular group was indeed called "Anglo-Saxon" for such totally logical reasons. That's why Mexicans and other Latin Americans often use the shortened term "Anglo." Then some time after WWII it was gradually replaced by "WASP."

    When there's a correctly descriptive term that has been in use for centuries, it's quite odd for it to suddenly be replaced by much less accurate term, and I've always wondered how that came about. Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the "elite WASPS" and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the “elite WASPS” and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    That’s what it meant when I was growing up in the midwest. It was a way to say “Yankee” without people thinking you were from the South.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I agree. I always took WASP to refer to a descendent of the puritans of New England or of the Dutch or English of New York or New Jersey. Traditionally, I never heard it applied even to low-land southerners. They were certainly white, anglo-saxon, and protestant, but they were never called WASPs.
  84. “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.”

    I don’t understand what is wrong with such a sentiment. It is often true. And not only for some Jews, but also for some Gentiles.

  85. @Desiderius

    Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the “elite WASPS” and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.
     
    That's what it meant when I was growing up in the midwest. It was a way to say "Yankee" without people thinking you were from the South.

    I agree. I always took WASP to refer to a descendent of the puritans of New England or of the Dutch or English of New York or New Jersey. Traditionally, I never heard it applied even to low-land southerners. They were certainly white, anglo-saxon, and protestant, but they were never called WASPs.

  86. @Anonymous
    That's been sort of a common trope in American entertainment for a while - the seemingly happy, middle American suburban family life in reality conceals dark demons like a loveless marriage, abuse, emotional coldness, alcoholism, repressed sexuality, latent homosexuality, etc.

    As Susan Sontag wrote, “The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone—its ideologies and inventions—which eradicates autonomous civilizations wherever it spreads, which has upset the ecological balance of the planet, which now threatens the very existence of life itself.”

    The suburbs are full of white people. Do you think they are good?

  87. I look forward to Weiner’s next project – a scathing indictment of that class of people who have always wielded power in Hollywood.

  88. @fish
    Good lord not the country club thing again......!


    sigh.....

    “fish says:

    Good lord not the country club thing again……!

    sigh…..”

    The ancient golf-libel.

  89. @Anonymous
    I'm from a blue collar background, and a proud alpha male.

    Weiner comes across in this interview as a emasculated beta male, like he is trying to impress chicks with his "feminist" credentials.

    1) you’re not an alpha male

    2) Weiner is the Alpha Male—he’s in charge…of you

  90. @Anonymous
    Daniel O'Connell insulted Disraeli first and raised the issue of his Jewish origins. From wiki:

    "The Irish MP Daniel O'Connell, misled by inaccurate press reports, thought Disraeli had slandered him while electioneering at Taunton; he launched an outspoken attack, referring to Disraeli as:

    'a reptile ... just fit now, after being twice discarded by the people, to become a Conservative. He possesses all the necessary requisites of perfidy, selfishness, depravity, want of principle, etc., which would qualify him for the change. His name shows that he is of Jewish origin. I do not use it as a term of reproach; there are many most respectable Jews. But there are, as in every other people, some of the lowest and most disgusting grade of moral turpitude; and of those I look upon Mr. Disraeli as the worst.'"

    O’Connell did have a bit of a point about Disraeli personally. Disraeli’s is an amazing story, kind of like Dr. Oz becoming President. Or kind of like if the first black President had been Richard Pryor or James Brown.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Or kind of like if the first black President had been Richard Pryor or James Brown.
     
    I can say without hint of irony that either one of those men would have done better than the two black presidents we have in fact been inflicted with.
  91. “Anonymous says:

    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I’m fine with going along to get along and don’t make a big deal of Jewishness if it’s not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can’t keep it to himself. It doesn’t matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it’s been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.”

    And there is nothing – nothing at all – in the actions of many Jews, as a group, that indicate that they want to remain separate? Nothing at all?

    By the way, I am not responsible for the kind of people whom you associate with.

  92. @OsRazor
    You raise a good point, but I think it goes even deeper than that for Weiner. Weiner's saying much of American life (for Jews) until recently was this desperate, almost irrational desire to assimilate and become WASP-like in disposition, dress, attitude, etc. Mad Men is all about his exposure of just how stupid that whole effort was, why trying to be like WASPs wasn't only pointless, since they would always exclude and abuse you, but a morally corrupting, soul destroying act. Draper's journey from bastard child of a prostitute to the epitome of WASP privilege makes that argument continually. Weiner is saying--"Look fellow Jews. Is that what our parents and we wanted to emulate all this time? Some soulless bastard thing like Don Draper? We're better than them, much more noble, so stop it and don't feel bad for even a fleeting moment at insults and slights you might have suffered with WASPs. They're not worth it. Good riddance."

    Good connent.

  93. “OsRazor says:

    Weiner is saying–”Look fellow Jews. Is that what our parents and we wanted to emulate all this time? Some soulless bastard thing like Don Draper? We’re better than them, much more noble, so stop it and don’t feel bad for even a fleeting moment at insults and slights you might have suffered with WASPs. They’re not worth it. Good riddance.”

    So, Weiner is saying, in effect: “Why would you want to be like this entirely fictional punching-bag of a character, whom I created out of whole cloth, and cast in the worst possible light”? Yes indeed, that is a powerful message. Snidely Whiplash was a very morally instructive character too. Why would anybody want to be like Snidely Whiplash? Or Lex Luthor? Or Keyser Soze?

    And what could be a more soulless job than TV screen-writer and show-runner? Weiner’s father was a distinguished physician – a man who did real things – cured the sick, helped people. The son is a retailer of stylish ethnic-grievance propaganda.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    The top Jewish guy in the office was overheard by various co-workers telling his fellow tribal folk that "We're the better ones", which became part of the office folklore as "We're the bedouins". That kind of made sense, what with all that wandering and all.

    Then he doubled down with the Yiddische Kopf thing, which transitioned to Scheisskopf.

    He didn't do himself or anyone else any favors, and was looked upon more with pity and bemusement.
  94. Taco says:

    So… let’s talk about the end of the series.

    Don, “oms” his way into nirvana-happiness, finally content in the realization that he, as a white male, can be happy, if (and only if) he surrenders. He gives up his birthright, and his homeland, his children, and his way of life, and makes multi-cultural advertisements for carbonated sugar water aimed at the millions of his countrymen who haven’t (yet) decided to similarly surrender. In giving up his whiteness and his maleness, he can finally, for once, be happy.

    Am I misreading this?

    • Replies: @D. K.
    Yes, I think so. He just happened to be stuck there, for a couple of days, and was going with the flow. I think that the grin was intended to be ambiguous-- like the ending of "The Sopranos"-- but the immediate follow-up to the famous Coca-Cola commercial leads me to conclude that his smile was not Buddhist enlightenment, at all; it was the indication, instead, of his conceiving of the idea for the Coke commercial-- and the moment when his bipolarity suddenly shifted back to a rising waveform.
  95. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If Weiner wasn’t just blowing smoke out of his ass, well … his show would have sucked.

    All drama has conflict. If he decides to frame it as ethnic or racist or whatever … that narrative is large enough and flexible enough so support anything. So he hauls it out whenever it seems useful.

    There are dozens of ways to explain the show’s success. Smoking. Nostalgia, Don Draper’s sexual prowess, boozing it up. The period furniture and outfits.

    Everyone is ALWAYS an outsider. Was Charles De Gaulle an insider or an outsider? Of course he was as French as it got, but being a loser is worse. Ask the Confederates. Everyone that is part of anything is not a part of everything. And on and on.

    The whole white, WASP thing is remarkable because it had to disappear before it was ambiguous enough to ascribe mystical powers to it.

    No one gives a fuck about LaCrosse except Hopkins students. It is a money losing sport. Frats? Come on .. round to zero.

    Does White privilege explain hedge fund founders?

    To be an outsider, there needs to be insiders. It can take a lot of imagination, but that’s what show runners do. On Mad Men, Pete Campbell was a ‘Dykeman’ or whatever … and it was totally over then. If you weren’t trying to impress some condo board that realistically couldn’t stop anyone with money regardless of their fantasies. A nice little plot element.

    No one can’t frame their life as overcoming ‘outsiderness’ in some convoluted way or another.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "There are dozens of ways to explain the show’s success. Smoking. Nostalgia, Don Draper’s sexual prowess, boozing it up. The period furniture and outfits."

    All of those reasons. It also didn't hurt that commercials for it during its first season had AmyWinehouse's "You know I'm no Good" playing in the background.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-I2s5zRbHg

  96. @john shade
    Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that his teammate on junior varsity football in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick Steve's ass every day. Probably because of anti-Semitism.


    http://www.superlawyers.com/washington/article/Keep-It-Simple-Stupid/89fccc82-840a-4a05-8b25-3e8dc951a1c8.html

    “I was playing [football], second-string quarterback, going into my junior year,” he says. “I’m calling plays in the very first scrimmage. There’s a guy across the way. He just hated me. I think it was anti-Semitic. He says, ‘Berman, I’m going to fucking kick your ass every day.’ He was an animal. All of a sudden I realized, I’m only 5’10”, and I’m not going to get any bigger. This guy is going to kill me. So I go, ‘Timeout.’ I hand the helmet to the coach, take off my pads, run over to the soccer field. I tell the coach there, ‘I want to play soccer.’”

    ***

    At corporate firm Shidler, McBroom, Gates & Lucas (now K&L Gates), Berman became involved in his first class action from the plaintiff’s side. It was the Washington Public Power Supply System (WPPSS) case, a public works project that mismanaged the creation of two nuclear power facilities into a $2.4 billion boondoggle. “We sued all 88 towns and cities in the Northwest,” he says. “They were defendants. The underwriters were defendants and the city of Seattle was a defendant.” The case settled for $753 million in 1988, leaving Berman with a taste for class action. He looked around at other firms but few would touch him. “They said, ‘You’re like a lightning rod, suing everyone around here.’ Betts Patterson was the only firm that would hire me. They had a plaintiff’s practice that was floundering. They wanted someone to come in and fix it.”

    ***

    My very first assignment, as a newly minted Seattle lawyer, almost thirty years ago, was researching and drafting a portion of our firm’s plaintiff brief against the Washington Public Power Supply System, on behalf of our client, U.S. Trust, which had bought a lot of WPPSS bonds, after what my supervising partner used to refer to as “a dog-and-pony show.” As I recall, from half my life ago, WPPSS had planned to build five nuclear plants. It had started construction on two of them, at the point where its financing imploded, and the projects were mothballed.

    • Replies: @Curle
    I've always heard that the biggest error leading to the WPPSS debacle was mostly a matter of bad math. That growth projections were premised on the notion that you could add unlimited capacity without this additional capacity affecting prices. Wha??? In other words, planners simply projected a vast increase in supply, factored in the then-current price for electricity, and that constituted their project analysis. That none of the participating cities, or bond purchasers, noticed this error boggles the mind (assuming the story is true).
  97. We must end this libelling of WASPs. Time for a Country Club Reparations Bill.

  98. @Jefferson
    "Lots of Italian-Americans and Irish-American youth love the whole mafia/thug stereotype. It makes them seem cool and glamorous. It’s also very endearing to lots of women.

    Especially these days with WASPs being portrayed as boring and unhip, there’s definitely a glamor factor to claiming your family used to belong to the mafia."

    The organized crime "stereotype" is associated way more with my people the Italians than it is with the Irish. There is a reason why there are very few Hollywood films about Irish gangsters. You even see more Hollywood films about Russian gangsters than you do about Irish gangsters.

    I’ve often wondered why there are so few films or TV shows about Irish-American gangsters. You seem to be saying it’s because few people associate organised crime with the Irish, but surely that’s a circular argument, seeing that it’s Hollywood that generates many of these popular perceptions in the first place.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like "The Departed" and "The Town." "The General" is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to
  99. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    When Weiner’s ancestors moved to the USA, they knew full well it was a nation created by wasps, run by wasps and run for wasps. They freely made the decision to live in the wasps country, and implicitly to accept the dominance of wasps.
    It is for that reason I do not accept Weiner’s whining.

  100. 1971’s I’d Like To Buy The World A Coke commercial was actually filmed in the country of my ancestors, Italia.
    http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-hilltop-story#TCCC

    Although a high percentage of the people in that commercial are obviously not Italian judging by the many Black, South Asian, and Oriental faces in that commercial.

    That was a very racially diverse commercial, especially by 1970s standards. Whenever I watch old commercials from the 1970s on Youtube, the vast majority of them tend to be very White.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Coke flew in people from different parts of the world for that ad.
  101. @Anonymous
    It’s true that many of us have experienced the feeling of not being quite accepted in group or club settings that are dominated by Anglo Whites

    Your fault or theirs? Seems to me that as long as you insist on being a separate people (we jewish people), you are the one responsible for exclusion. Jews want to have their cake and eat it.

    It’s nobody’s “fault”. It is a state of mind. How do you stay physically/emotionally separate from the dominant culture yet at the very same time want to be accepted as “one of the guys”? That psychic struggle forms the core of the galut (diaspora) Jewish mentality.

    But not all Jews suffer from it. A big reason Jews founded Israel was to liberate themselves from 1800 years of the galut mentality by living in their own country, getting their hands dirty, doing their own work and building their own land. And it has worked. Israeli Jews are a much more centered than Exilic Jews. Think Moshe Dayan as opposed to Woody Allen … or Matthew Weiner.

    In fact, the difference in Jewish types is so striking that Israeli Jews call themselves “Hebrews” (Ivrim) and call Diaspora Jews “Yids” or … (Yehudonim). It has been so since the earliest days of Zionism. [Arthur Ruppin and the Production of the Modern Hebrew Culture, Etan Bloom, 2008.]

    Exilic Jews and blacks will always be a bit neurotic when they live among WASPs. Both should make aliyah.

  102. @Ron Unz

    Is there such a thing as an Anglo non-White Protestant?
     
    The whole appearance of the term "WASP" has always seemed pretty puzzling to me for exactly that sort of reason. Obviously, virtually all Anglo-Saxons are white. And I think that all but a tiny fraction of American Anglo-Saxons were Protestant. So the group described as "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant" is essentially identical to the group described as "Anglo-Saxon."

    Strangely enough, throughout almost all of American history that particular group was indeed called "Anglo-Saxon" for such totally logical reasons. That's why Mexicans and other Latin Americans often use the shortened term "Anglo." Then some time after WWII it was gradually replaced by "WASP."

    When there's a correctly descriptive term that has been in use for centuries, it's quite odd for it to suddenly be replaced by much less accurate term, and I've always wondered how that came about. Perhaps it was a sociological attempt to distinguish between the "elite WASPS" and the general Anglo-Saxon population, including nearly the entire South and much of rural population.

    “The whole appearance of the term “WASP” has always seemed pretty puzzling to me […]”

    The term WASP gained currency with the publication of (the ever dapper) E. Digby Baltzell’s 1964 book The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America. Before that, Wikipedia tells us, the first published mention of the term was in 1957 by sociologist Andrew Hacker. According to Hacker’s usage, the ‘W’ stood for ‘Wealthy’ rather than ‘White’ (which makes more sense because less redundant).

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant. Hacker’s usage makes more sense though because the term is usually used to refer to upper-class whites — usually Old Money, New Money, or Ivy League educated.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right, Hacker's original term Wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant is more useful, but Baltzell's White Anglo-Saxon Protestant has won out, perhaps because Jews didn't want to get into a discussion of their rivalry with Wealthy Protestants because that would imply that there are Wealthy Jews, and everybody knows that's just a stereotype. Better to make it a racial pejorative.
    , @IBC

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant.
     
    I think a lot of people get hung up on the "Anglo-Saxon" part of "WASP" as exclusively referring to people of English descent. The term has been inconsistently used, and so yes, in this context it can best be understood as referring to English-speaking people of Northern European background. Otherwise, famous names such as Astor, Vanderbilt, Roosevelt, and Rockefeller would never have attained such legendary high society status.

    Back when a majority of Americans could more or less be described as "white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants," the WASP term/epithet would have been useless, and "wealthy, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant" wouldn't have been much better. As demographics and sensibilities have changed, "WASP" has gained currency as a convenient shorthand for non- "ethnic" whites even when it's anachronistic and leads to false assumptions and intellectual laziness. It's also a great device for people like Matthew Weiner to deflect attention away from their own privileged backgrounds by pointing fingers at a group of people who may not even cohesiveley exist anymore if they ever even did.

    For me, these days the ultimate WASP is Caroline Kennedy. She's a US ambassador, a board member for the Metropolitan Museum, lives on the Upper East Side, probably "summers" on the Cape and spends lots of time in Aspen; and most importantly, she appears to derive most of her power and fame from dynastic connections and inherited wealth. On the other hand, she's a woman of Irish Catholic background and her husband is half-Jewish. But do those really preclude her from WASP-insider status? And would they have done so 50 years ago? And if they did, of what consequence would it have been? The fact that someone's an actual member of the ruling caste or "the establishment" is what to look out for, not their exact pedigree or how closely they follow the <a href=""title=The Official Preppy Handbook. The Official Preppy Handbook.

  103. @Prof. Woland

    The person, of course, didn’t know they were in the presence of a Jew.
     
    They also did not know that your identity, loyalty, and allegiance belonged to another group, even though you purposefully passed yourself off as one of them.

    They also did not know that your identity, loyalty, and allegiance belonged to another group, even though you purposefully passed yourself off as one of them.

    If Weiner’s story’s even true. The guy writes fantasy for a living. He has an artistic temperament. His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past."

    Right. The strange thing is that the circumstances of his past are extremely non-obscure. It's not like he's telling stories about all the raging anti-Semitism at some high school in Spokane, and we might believe him because who knows anything about Spokane? No, he's talking about the most famous high school in the Hollywood Hills. (I know a lot about Harvard-Westlake because it was my high school's archrival in debate, but it's pretty well known.) According to Harvard-Westlake's Wikipedia page, it's alumni include Shirley Temple, Jon Lovitz, H.R. Haldeman, Jason Collins and Jason Segel (basketball teammates), Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Tori Spelling, swimmer Dara Torres, Mark Harmon, astronaut Sally Ride, Governor Gray Davis, etc etc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard-Westlake_School#Notable_alumni

    Looking at this long list of alumni, I'm starting to wonder if what really bugged Weiner was that Harvard-Westlake seems to have been especially attractive to students who are half-Jewish, like Jamie Lee Curtis, Jason Reitman, Jason Segel, Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal, and Eric Garcetti. That may explain Weiner's obsession after all these years with asserting how only 10% of his high school class was Jewish, when the 1981 Los Angeles Herald-Examiner article about Harvard-Westlake says the student was 40% Jewish. Perhaps Weiner is only counting the Real Jews, and remains agitated by all the part-Jewish kids at Harvard Westlake. How do they fit into his vision of the world?

    Weiner is a half dozen years younger than me, and in our generation, Jews typically made it a point of ideological pride to attend public schools, unlike weird Catholics and snobby Protestants. I knew a lot of Jewish kids on the debate team at Beverly Hills HS, which was absurdly well-financed (it even had its own oil wells) relative to my private Catholic high school, but it was still a public school. That attitude vanished after busing in LAUSD began in 1978 when Weiner was 13 -- Jewish politicians in the Valley led the struggle against busing, but were vanquished. Now L.A. is full of private Jewish schools, but there were few private Jewish schools at the time.

    Weiner, however, grew up a couple of miles outside the border of Beverly Hills, so he couldn't go to BHHS, and went to super-expensive Harvard-Westlake instead. Perhaps, being highly ethnocentric, already worried about betraying American Jews by going to a private school, he was then freaked out by all the half-Jewish kids at Harvard-Westlake.

  104. @jjbees
    I think this is a huge part of it:

    "Hey, how do we make a show where all the actors are all white people doing white people things, so intelligent SWPLs with money to spend will want to watch our show and we can make serious ad revenue?"

    "I know, let's make it historical, and we can tell em' we're deconstructing it! They always buy it!"

    So you get:

    Game of Thrones
    Vikings
    Downton Abbey
    Mad Men
    The Sopranos

    The common thread is that this sort of stuff is an excuse to revel and exult in whiteness. Weiner is a self-hating jew who makes white power propaganda, and gets rich off it. The only question is if he knows what's going on and just knows the right stuff to say, or if he is really that full of self-hatred and psychopathology.

    I think you’ve nailed it. There’s fame and fortune to be found in smuggling forbidden psychological fruits to upwardly mobile audiences. (And if there’s one thing all the feminists on my Facebook feed have in common, it’s that Don Draper makes their panties sopping wet.)

    I’m starting to think that drama is the new comedy. There was a time when sophisticated, thinking-men’s comedians offered a respite from the political correctness of the day. There was an outlet for people who were pretty much on board with goodthink but needed a little space to breath. Now it’s difficult to find a comedian whose tone is anything but smug holier-than-thou-ness. Amy Schumer’s whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place. Well, too bad, you’re watching it, you sexist pig. Now here’s a commercial break.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Amy Schumer’s whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place."

    I was checking out the sports today on TV: NBC had golf, ABC had hockey, and Fox had a 65-year-old "I Love Lucy" episode.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Louis CK's father is a half-Jewish white Mexican economist who met his mom at Harvard.

    I bet that if pressed, Louis CK would have interesting and valuable comic insights into the giant but rather opaque country on America's southern border. But there doesn't seem to be any demand whatsoever for jokes about why Mexico is the way it is and the role of rich white Mexicans in why it's like that.

    Instead, Louis CK seems to project his white guilt over the culpability of the Mexican elite onto white Americans, who aren't actually terribly involved.
  105. @Cagey Beast
    OT but I was just watching a recent interview with Jean-Marie Le Pen. He talks about his schism with his daughter, how he doesn't like homosexuals "who hunt in packs" when they engage in politics and says he's working to form a new political coalition around himself. The veteran journalist doing the interview asks him how long he's going to keep this up. He says "until death, alas!" and then throws his head back in laughter. She looks at him with an expression on her face that says "this dog is totally off the chain!"

    It reminded me of what Alain Soral said about J-M Le Pen and why Soral enjoyed being on the central commitee of the party under him:

    "He's a political artist. I loved the unpredictable, artistic nature of the FN with him at the head. Marine Le Pen doesn't think politics is an art, she thinks it's a trade. She's going to ruin the FN like women ruined the Communist Party in France."
     

    Reading between the lines, Jean Le Pen was the kept dissident who made money and allowed to be the Hitler living face of dissidence. But had no intention of being anything other than a lucrative clown show. He made money selling France down the river. His daughter intends to actually take power not run a Fred Phelps cult con job.
    ,…….
    Weiner? Made a lot of money writing bad boy porn for upscale women and trying to cloak it with pc respectability. He’s a fraud like Jean Le Pen.

    You don’t see him writing Muslims killing Jews now do you? Its instead non stop sexy bad boys to thrill the ladies. He’s a pornographer with pious humbuggery. Nothing more.

  106. @Taco
    So... let's talk about the end of the series.

    Don, "oms" his way into nirvana-happiness, finally content in the realization that he, as a white male, can be happy, if (and only if) he surrenders. He gives up his birthright, and his homeland, his children, and his way of life, and makes multi-cultural advertisements for carbonated sugar water aimed at the millions of his countrymen who haven't (yet) decided to similarly surrender. In giving up his whiteness and his maleness, he can finally, for once, be happy.

    Am I misreading this?

    Yes, I think so. He just happened to be stuck there, for a couple of days, and was going with the flow. I think that the grin was intended to be ambiguous– like the ending of “The Sopranos”– but the immediate follow-up to the famous Coca-Cola commercial leads me to conclude that his smile was not Buddhist enlightenment, at all; it was the indication, instead, of his conceiving of the idea for the Coke commercial– and the moment when his bipolarity suddenly shifted back to a rising waveform.

  107. Weiners not angry. There’s a world of difference between say Gary Oldmans cockney anger, and fat, comfrtable lives as a surgeons son in Hancock Park next to the Mayor.

    Weiners porn of course is not just for women. It is for the upper class looking down on uppity Whites. At least EL James had no pretense of anything other than sex, and the miney she made off it.

  108. @Rob McX
    I've often wondered why there are so few films or TV shows about Irish-American gangsters. You seem to be saying it's because few people associate organised crime with the Irish, but surely that's a circular argument, seeing that it's Hollywood that generates many of these popular perceptions in the first place.

    Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like “The Departed” and “The Town.” “The General” is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    To say nothing of the aptly-named "Kill the Irishman".
    , @Jefferson
    "Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like “The Departed” and “The Town.” “The General” is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to."

    Films about Italian gangsters far outnumber films about Irish gangsters. Here is a list of films that feature Italian gangsters.

    1.The Godfather
    2.The Godfather Part 2
    3.The Godfather Part 3
    4.Gotti
    5.Killing Them Softly
    6.The Untouchables
    7.Mean Streets
    8.True Romance
    9.Casino
    10.The Family
    11.My Blue Heaven
    12.The Sicilian
    13.The Iceman
    14.Goodfellas
    15.Donnie Brasco
    16.Made Men
    17.Mickey Blue Eyes
    18.This Thing Of Ours
    19.The Brotherhood
    20.Analyze That
    21.Analyze This
    22.The Freshman
    23.The Mafia Only Kills In Summer
    24.Nicky Deuce
    25.Batman Begins
    26.The Dark Knight
    27.In The Mix
    28.Crazy Joe
    29.The Revenge Of Al Capone
    30.A Bronx Tale
    31.Bugsy
    32.American Hustle
    33.Brooklyn Rules
    , @Clifford Brown
    "Miller's Crossing" starring a tommy gun toting Albert Finney and Gabriel Byrne. After that Irish gangster movie, is there really a need for another one?

    Interestingly, the movie is about how an old line, politically connected, Irish mob boss (Finney) is being threatened by the more aggressive Italian and Jewish upstarts. One of the Coen Brothers better films, pay special attention to Byrne's fedora, the allusions to "The Third Man" and the homosexual subtexts. As depicted in "Miller's Crossing" and in real life, Irish mobsters were more prominent in the James Cagney era to be replaced by less assimilated, hungrier, ethnic mobsters.

    In the 1932 film "Scarface", Tony Comante kills the Chicago South Side Irish mob boss "Big" Louis Costillo and then declares war on the North Side Irish mob boss O'Hara. This was loosely based on the events surrounding the St. Valentine's Day Massacre when Al Capone's South Side Italian Mob massacred mobsters associated with North Side Irish mob boss "Bugs" Moran.

    In the 1983 "Scarface", Cuban immigrant, Tony Montana, rises to prominence after he murders the established, Cuban Jewish (Jewbano?) mob boss, Frank Lopez, and his corrupt, Jewish cop enforcer Mel Bernstein.

    I think this scene won the Oscar for Worst 1980's Modern Art Collection.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=958GzzqgWnw

    Alas, Tony decided to take on the Columbians, which we all know, is never a good idea. Interestingly, after Tony took out the Miami Jewish mobsters, he hired "El Ultimo" WASP banker in all of gangster cinema, "Jerry the Banker," played by Dennis Holahan, who also had a one time role on "The White Shadow" television series.

    http://pyxurz.blogspot.com/2011/10/scarface-page-4-of-6.html

    Roger Sterling?
    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3712976384/nm0389971?ref_=nm_phs_md_2

    Seems like ethnic usurpation is pretty much par for the course in the American gangster genre. I guess Weiner is just doing it with passive aggression and a better fashion sense with his Sixties soap opera. Personally, I prefer my ethnic antagonisms resolved through garish suits, thick urban accents and hot lead.
  109. @Anonymous
    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I'm fine with going along to get along and don't make a big deal of Jewishness if it's not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can't keep it to himself. It doesn't matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it's been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.

    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. …I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can’t keep it to himself. ……It doesn’t matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it’s been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.

    Reminds me of all the insecure, neurotic comedians who meantion performing for a large crowd who love his act but he can’t stop fixating on or remembering that one guy who isn’t laughing.

    “That guy” is always out there.

  110. SFG says:
    @jjbees
    I think this is a huge part of it:

    "Hey, how do we make a show where all the actors are all white people doing white people things, so intelligent SWPLs with money to spend will want to watch our show and we can make serious ad revenue?"

    "I know, let's make it historical, and we can tell em' we're deconstructing it! They always buy it!"

    So you get:

    Game of Thrones
    Vikings
    Downton Abbey
    Mad Men
    The Sopranos

    The common thread is that this sort of stuff is an excuse to revel and exult in whiteness. Weiner is a self-hating jew who makes white power propaganda, and gets rich off it. The only question is if he knows what's going on and just knows the right stuff to say, or if he is really that full of self-hatred and psychopathology.

    That’s pretty much what I was saying, but you said it a lot better. 🙂

    Exactly. “We’re uh…deconstructing the 1950s!” and then they meticulously reconstruct the period so everyone can groove on the hairstyles, music, and dress. And toss in a few PC storylines so people can feel good about watching a story about a ‘racist’ decade.

  111. @Beach

    They also did not know that your identity, loyalty, and allegiance belonged to another group, even though you purposefully passed yourself off as one of them.
     
    If Weiner's story's even true. The guy writes fantasy for a living. He has an artistic temperament. His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It's not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past.

    “His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past.”

    Right. The strange thing is that the circumstances of his past are extremely non-obscure. It’s not like he’s telling stories about all the raging anti-Semitism at some high school in Spokane, and we might believe him because who knows anything about Spokane? No, he’s talking about the most famous high school in the Hollywood Hills. (I know a lot about Harvard-Westlake because it was my high school’s archrival in debate, but it’s pretty well known.) According to Harvard-Westlake’s Wikipedia page, it’s alumni include Shirley Temple, Jon Lovitz, H.R. Haldeman, Jason Collins and Jason Segel (basketball teammates), Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Tori Spelling, swimmer Dara Torres, Mark Harmon, astronaut Sally Ride, Governor Gray Davis, etc etc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard-Westlake_School#Notable_alumni

    Looking at this long list of alumni, I’m starting to wonder if what really bugged Weiner was that Harvard-Westlake seems to have been especially attractive to students who are half-Jewish, like Jamie Lee Curtis, Jason Reitman, Jason Segel, Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal, and Eric Garcetti. That may explain Weiner’s obsession after all these years with asserting how only 10% of his high school class was Jewish, when the 1981 Los Angeles Herald-Examiner article about Harvard-Westlake says the student was 40% Jewish. Perhaps Weiner is only counting the Real Jews, and remains agitated by all the part-Jewish kids at Harvard Westlake. How do they fit into his vision of the world?

    Weiner is a half dozen years younger than me, and in our generation, Jews typically made it a point of ideological pride to attend public schools, unlike weird Catholics and snobby Protestants. I knew a lot of Jewish kids on the debate team at Beverly Hills HS, which was absurdly well-financed (it even had its own oil wells) relative to my private Catholic high school, but it was still a public school. That attitude vanished after busing in LAUSD began in 1978 when Weiner was 13 — Jewish politicians in the Valley led the struggle against busing, but were vanquished. Now L.A. is full of private Jewish schools, but there were few private Jewish schools at the time.

    Weiner, however, grew up a couple of miles outside the border of Beverly Hills, so he couldn’t go to BHHS, and went to super-expensive Harvard-Westlake instead. Perhaps, being highly ethnocentric, already worried about betraying American Jews by going to a private school, he was then freaked out by all the half-Jewish kids at Harvard-Westlake.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    This is where Mark Harmon's famous father, Tom, graduated from high school, back in the 1930s:

    http://americanurbex.com/wordpress/?p=459

    My mother and her many siblings, likewise, graduated from what once was Gary's premier school (which once was K-12, and not just a high school).

    , @Desiderius
    It's of course entirely possible that all the neurotic anti-WASP stuff and trashing of the era are just a smokescreen to get a visually appealing soap designed to titillate younger audiences who long for traditional gender roles past the PC censors.
  112. @Occupant

    "The whole appearance of the term “WASP” has always seemed pretty puzzling to me [...]"
     
    The term WASP gained currency with the publication of (the ever dapper) E. Digby Baltzell’s 1964 book The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America. Before that, Wikipedia tells us, the first published mention of the term was in 1957 by sociologist Andrew Hacker. According to Hacker’s usage, the ‘W’ stood for ‘Wealthy’ rather than ‘White’ (which makes more sense because less redundant).

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant. Hacker’s usage makes more sense though because the term is usually used to refer to upper-class whites -- usually Old Money, New Money, or Ivy League educated.

    Right, Hacker’s original term Wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant is more useful, but Baltzell’s White Anglo-Saxon Protestant has won out, perhaps because Jews didn’t want to get into a discussion of their rivalry with Wealthy Protestants because that would imply that there are Wealthy Jews, and everybody knows that’s just a stereotype. Better to make it a racial pejorative.

  113. @anon
    I was very good-looking in my youth (not quite so much now :) ) but shorter than tall so I got the treatment from short women and a bit from average height but hardly at all from tall women so I could see the difference in behavior.

    And at various times I had tall good-looking friends who I had a love/hate attitude towards.

    S0... I wonder if DNA editing to average out male height might be the cure to the world's problems?

    No, it will start a DNA arms race which will see men becoming 5 m tall freaks. Or the ridiculous height might be confined to a few weirdos, but so many new men will crowd the desirable height range that the whole notion will be devalued, not gaining them much in the end (because of personality etc etc), while the men who stay at their normal size start getting left out. Didn’t the same happen to breasts?

    Steve should do an article on racial difference in plastic surgery and body modification.

  114. @Steve Sailer
    "His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past."

    Right. The strange thing is that the circumstances of his past are extremely non-obscure. It's not like he's telling stories about all the raging anti-Semitism at some high school in Spokane, and we might believe him because who knows anything about Spokane? No, he's talking about the most famous high school in the Hollywood Hills. (I know a lot about Harvard-Westlake because it was my high school's archrival in debate, but it's pretty well known.) According to Harvard-Westlake's Wikipedia page, it's alumni include Shirley Temple, Jon Lovitz, H.R. Haldeman, Jason Collins and Jason Segel (basketball teammates), Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Tori Spelling, swimmer Dara Torres, Mark Harmon, astronaut Sally Ride, Governor Gray Davis, etc etc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard-Westlake_School#Notable_alumni

    Looking at this long list of alumni, I'm starting to wonder if what really bugged Weiner was that Harvard-Westlake seems to have been especially attractive to students who are half-Jewish, like Jamie Lee Curtis, Jason Reitman, Jason Segel, Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal, and Eric Garcetti. That may explain Weiner's obsession after all these years with asserting how only 10% of his high school class was Jewish, when the 1981 Los Angeles Herald-Examiner article about Harvard-Westlake says the student was 40% Jewish. Perhaps Weiner is only counting the Real Jews, and remains agitated by all the part-Jewish kids at Harvard Westlake. How do they fit into his vision of the world?

    Weiner is a half dozen years younger than me, and in our generation, Jews typically made it a point of ideological pride to attend public schools, unlike weird Catholics and snobby Protestants. I knew a lot of Jewish kids on the debate team at Beverly Hills HS, which was absurdly well-financed (it even had its own oil wells) relative to my private Catholic high school, but it was still a public school. That attitude vanished after busing in LAUSD began in 1978 when Weiner was 13 -- Jewish politicians in the Valley led the struggle against busing, but were vanquished. Now L.A. is full of private Jewish schools, but there were few private Jewish schools at the time.

    Weiner, however, grew up a couple of miles outside the border of Beverly Hills, so he couldn't go to BHHS, and went to super-expensive Harvard-Westlake instead. Perhaps, being highly ethnocentric, already worried about betraying American Jews by going to a private school, he was then freaked out by all the half-Jewish kids at Harvard-Westlake.

    This is where Mark Harmon’s famous father, Tom, graduated from high school, back in the 1930s:

    http://americanurbex.com/wordpress/?p=459

    My mother and her many siblings, likewise, graduated from what once was Gary’s premier school (which once was K-12, and not just a high school).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Gary, Indiana!
    What a wonderful name,
    Named for Elbert Gary of judiciary fame.
    Gary, Indiana, as a Shakespeare would say,
    Trips along softly on the tongue this way--
    Gary, Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
    Let me say it once again.
    Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
    That's the town that "knew me when."
    If you'd like to have a logical explanation
    How I happened on this elegant syncopation,
    I will say without a moment of hesitation
    There is just one place
    That can light my face.
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary Indiana,
    Not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome, but--
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary Indiana,
    My home sweet home.

    -- "The Music Man"

  115. @D. K.
    This is where Mark Harmon's famous father, Tom, graduated from high school, back in the 1930s:

    http://americanurbex.com/wordpress/?p=459

    My mother and her many siblings, likewise, graduated from what once was Gary's premier school (which once was K-12, and not just a high school).

    Gary, Indiana!
    What a wonderful name,
    Named for Elbert Gary of judiciary fame.
    Gary, Indiana, as a Shakespeare would say,
    Trips along softly on the tongue this way–
    Gary, Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
    Let me say it once again.
    Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
    That’s the town that “knew me when.”
    If you’d like to have a logical explanation
    How I happened on this elegant syncopation,
    I will say without a moment of hesitation
    There is just one place
    That can light my face.
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary Indiana,
    Not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome, but–
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary Indiana,
    My home sweet home.

    — “The Music Man”

    • Replies: @D. K.
    ***

    Historical population

    Census Pop. %±
    1910 16,802 —
    1920 55,378 229.6%
    1930 100,666 81.8%
    1940 111,719 11.0%
    1950 133,911 19.9%
    1960 178,320 33.2%
    1970 175,415 −1.6%
    1980 151,968 −13.4%
    1990 116,646 −23.2%
    2000 102,746 −11.9%
    2010 80,294 −21.9%
    Est. 2013 78,450 −2.3%

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary,_Indiana#Demographics

    ***

    Gary, today, is roughly half as populous as it was when I was born, a few months after "The City of the Century" celebrated its semi-centennial-- little knowing that its eventual peak was just around the corner....

  116. @WowJustWow
    I think you've nailed it. There's fame and fortune to be found in smuggling forbidden psychological fruits to upwardly mobile audiences. (And if there's one thing all the feminists on my Facebook feed have in common, it's that Don Draper makes their panties sopping wet.)

    I'm starting to think that drama is the new comedy. There was a time when sophisticated, thinking-men's comedians offered a respite from the political correctness of the day. There was an outlet for people who were pretty much on board with goodthink but needed a little space to breath. Now it's difficult to find a comedian whose tone is anything but smug holier-than-thou-ness. Amy Schumer's whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place. Well, too bad, you're watching it, you sexist pig. Now here's a commercial break.

    “Amy Schumer’s whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place.”

    I was checking out the sports today on TV: NBC had golf, ABC had hockey, and Fox had a 65-year-old “I Love Lucy” episode.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Amy Schumer used to be funny. Now she prefers to do "pointed" stuff about how women are unfairly judged by their looks in Hollywood. Except it's all imagined slights. Like her "last f**kable day" sketch featuring Tina Fey, Julia Loiuse-Dreyfus, and Patricia Arquette - three extremely attractive, middle-aged women who have gone from success to success in Hollywood.
  117. @Pat Hannagan
    Two things that fascinate me are:

    1) Why is the Anglo-Saxon Protestant acronym prefaced with White? Isn't White assumed? Are there black Anglo-Saxons?

    2) After all the obvious hatred and general despising and loathing Jews feel, and generally dish towards ASPs, why do the ASPs remain the Jews biggest non-Jewish fanclub?

    No matter how many times a Weiner whines what he says above I can only imagine some gentrified ASP in a country club somewhere applauding the Weiner and resolving to invade another Mid East country to make up for the slight.

    WASP suggests a bicoastal overclass that created the Ivy League, country clubs, etc. This is the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and other Mainline Protestants.

    It doesn’t suggest Middle American evangelical Protestants. (MAEP) That’s the group that favored neoconservative foreign policy.

    I doubt that leftist Jews really hate their fellow bicoastal liberals, unless they think there is hidden reactionary inside them. Some might.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    There are downscale mainline Protestants too.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    WASP suggests a bicoastal overclass that created the Ivy League, country clubs, etc. This is the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and other Mainline Protestants.

    It doesn’t suggest Middle American evangelical Protestants. (MAEP) That’s the group that favored neoconservative foreign policy.
     

    As a MAEP (sort of, at least), I agree with your geographic-theological filters for defining WASPs. In fact, my perceptions have always focused on the denominational affiliation aspect of WASPiness. Episcopalianism is the standard, and not even all mainline denominations qualify. Methodists, for example, can never really be more than middle class, and hence cannot be WASPs, even though they're the biggest mainline denomination.

    Hillary therefore isn't a WASP, since she grew up Methodist. She certainly lacks the self-sacrificing sense of noblesse oblige . . . .

  118. @WowJustWow
    I think you've nailed it. There's fame and fortune to be found in smuggling forbidden psychological fruits to upwardly mobile audiences. (And if there's one thing all the feminists on my Facebook feed have in common, it's that Don Draper makes their panties sopping wet.)

    I'm starting to think that drama is the new comedy. There was a time when sophisticated, thinking-men's comedians offered a respite from the political correctness of the day. There was an outlet for people who were pretty much on board with goodthink but needed a little space to breath. Now it's difficult to find a comedian whose tone is anything but smug holier-than-thou-ness. Amy Schumer's whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place. Well, too bad, you're watching it, you sexist pig. Now here's a commercial break.

    Louis CK’s father is a half-Jewish white Mexican economist who met his mom at Harvard.

    I bet that if pressed, Louis CK would have interesting and valuable comic insights into the giant but rather opaque country on America’s southern border. But there doesn’t seem to be any demand whatsoever for jokes about why Mexico is the way it is and the role of rich white Mexicans in why it’s like that.

    Instead, Louis CK seems to project his white guilt over the culpability of the Mexican elite onto white Americans, who aren’t actually terribly involved.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Should I feel guilty as a white American because Palo Alto isn't Tijuana Norte?

    Think how much better off the world would be if Silicon Valley were Valle de Arena.
    , @Desiderius
    Yeah, I happened to catch his monologue for SNL. Tired BS about how racist the 70s were. He does this edgy face while saying things that would be so conventional if they were even true...

    Painful to watch.
  119. @Steve Sailer
    Louis CK's father is a half-Jewish white Mexican economist who met his mom at Harvard.

    I bet that if pressed, Louis CK would have interesting and valuable comic insights into the giant but rather opaque country on America's southern border. But there doesn't seem to be any demand whatsoever for jokes about why Mexico is the way it is and the role of rich white Mexicans in why it's like that.

    Instead, Louis CK seems to project his white guilt over the culpability of the Mexican elite onto white Americans, who aren't actually terribly involved.

    Should I feel guilty as a white American because Palo Alto isn’t Tijuana Norte?

    Think how much better off the world would be if Silicon Valley were Valle de Arena.

  120. @Anonyias
    No kidding. My mother is in her early 50s. Success for her family growing up was being able to afford an upgrade from the outhouse to indoor plumbing. They got a toilet around 1968- she was 6 years old. I am only one generation removed from an outhouse.

    Her family was far from being the poorest in her hometown, too. They were considered lower middle class, respectable blue collar types.

    People like Weiner haven't the slightest clue what life was like in the rest of the country. They assume the American experience begins and ends in the suburbs of New York, LA, and Chicago.

    My father grew up on a North Dakota farm with no running water or electricity. They plowed the fields with teams of horses! He moved to Chicago in the 50’s and worked in a steel mill while my mom worked in a plastics factory.

    • Replies: @Merema
    Why don't Whites talk about the humble backgrounds of their grandparents more?

    I'm an "immigrant", and back in the 80s I used to love listening the life stories from WASP old timers (Scotch Irish/German/Dutch) and it used to amaze me when they told me how their mothers used to work looking after rich old people, or how their fathers kept chickens in Long Island to sell eggs in Queens, or farmed and sold fresh vegtables. Some of their parents were orphans and brought up by uncles/aunts. Others had siblings that died in early childhood (I can still remember the quite pain in their eyes talking about that). I know there are books about poor Whites (of Mice and Men come to mind) that one can read, and some movies as well I guess, but it is nothing like listening to real life stories. There was no boasting or self-pity as they told their stories, just sharing their stories with me, an African teen, because I had expressed an interest. They were so dignified.

    I know Jews, Italian and Irish have similar stories.

    Most non-White immigrants don't know this part of American Whites, and think that most Whites were always wealthy, or became wealthy insidiously. There is so much misinformation out there, and also no information.
  121. @Steve Sailer
    "His entire life is a self-created drama of brave endurance of microaggressions. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he possesses a strong predisposition to embellish non-events of his past."

    Right. The strange thing is that the circumstances of his past are extremely non-obscure. It's not like he's telling stories about all the raging anti-Semitism at some high school in Spokane, and we might believe him because who knows anything about Spokane? No, he's talking about the most famous high school in the Hollywood Hills. (I know a lot about Harvard-Westlake because it was my high school's archrival in debate, but it's pretty well known.) According to Harvard-Westlake's Wikipedia page, it's alumni include Shirley Temple, Jon Lovitz, H.R. Haldeman, Jason Collins and Jason Segel (basketball teammates), Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Tori Spelling, swimmer Dara Torres, Mark Harmon, astronaut Sally Ride, Governor Gray Davis, etc etc

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard-Westlake_School#Notable_alumni

    Looking at this long list of alumni, I'm starting to wonder if what really bugged Weiner was that Harvard-Westlake seems to have been especially attractive to students who are half-Jewish, like Jamie Lee Curtis, Jason Reitman, Jason Segel, Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal, and Eric Garcetti. That may explain Weiner's obsession after all these years with asserting how only 10% of his high school class was Jewish, when the 1981 Los Angeles Herald-Examiner article about Harvard-Westlake says the student was 40% Jewish. Perhaps Weiner is only counting the Real Jews, and remains agitated by all the part-Jewish kids at Harvard Westlake. How do they fit into his vision of the world?

    Weiner is a half dozen years younger than me, and in our generation, Jews typically made it a point of ideological pride to attend public schools, unlike weird Catholics and snobby Protestants. I knew a lot of Jewish kids on the debate team at Beverly Hills HS, which was absurdly well-financed (it even had its own oil wells) relative to my private Catholic high school, but it was still a public school. That attitude vanished after busing in LAUSD began in 1978 when Weiner was 13 -- Jewish politicians in the Valley led the struggle against busing, but were vanquished. Now L.A. is full of private Jewish schools, but there were few private Jewish schools at the time.

    Weiner, however, grew up a couple of miles outside the border of Beverly Hills, so he couldn't go to BHHS, and went to super-expensive Harvard-Westlake instead. Perhaps, being highly ethnocentric, already worried about betraying American Jews by going to a private school, he was then freaked out by all the half-Jewish kids at Harvard-Westlake.

    It’s of course entirely possible that all the neurotic anti-WASP stuff and trashing of the era are just a smokescreen to get a visually appealing soap designed to titillate younger audiences who long for traditional gender roles past the PC censors.

  122. @Dave
    Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants? Somebody clue me in. Is it taught in the home? Is this guy--Weiner--an anomaly and not reflective of the Jewish community as a whole?

    In general, truth be told, most minorities are saboteurs of the dominant culture. It really can’t be helped.

    For Jews such as Weiner, I think it is because they see themselves as White, and are very angry that WASPs (representing the dominant culture) see them as different, as “the other”. This phenomenon is common among all minorities everywhere in the world.

    Imagine a child who has not yet tuned into the various ethnic or religious differences and hierarchies. One day, the child discovers that he is a member of the “out” group, the “minority”. It is a devastating moment for that child, who-until that moment-thought he/she was just like everyone else. That moment could come because of what a parent said (“we can’t be members of that club”, “they don’t like us”), or a casual remark by a peer in a school yard, and that moment of realizing he.she is “different” is truly devastating for a child. Some never let go of that feeling and nurse an anger forever-especially if it is encouraged. Others grow up to understand that human society is complicated and develop a positive and constructive identity that is not hostile to the majority culture.

    In general though, truth be told, all minorities are saboteurs of the dominant culture. It really can’t be helped.

  123. @Steve Sailer
    Louis CK's father is a half-Jewish white Mexican economist who met his mom at Harvard.

    I bet that if pressed, Louis CK would have interesting and valuable comic insights into the giant but rather opaque country on America's southern border. But there doesn't seem to be any demand whatsoever for jokes about why Mexico is the way it is and the role of rich white Mexicans in why it's like that.

    Instead, Louis CK seems to project his white guilt over the culpability of the Mexican elite onto white Americans, who aren't actually terribly involved.

    Yeah, I happened to catch his monologue for SNL. Tired BS about how racist the 70s were. He does this edgy face while saying things that would be so conventional if they were even true…

    Painful to watch.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    If Louis CK didn't exist, SWPLs would have had to invent him. He's so edgy and politically incorrect! Sarah Silverman serves the same function.
  124. @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Probably a lot to do with his surname being a nick-name for a penis.

    Weiner stimulates the desire to use the Wiener.

  125. @Steve Sailer
    Gary, Indiana!
    What a wonderful name,
    Named for Elbert Gary of judiciary fame.
    Gary, Indiana, as a Shakespeare would say,
    Trips along softly on the tongue this way--
    Gary, Indiana, Gary Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
    Let me say it once again.
    Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana,
    That's the town that "knew me when."
    If you'd like to have a logical explanation
    How I happened on this elegant syncopation,
    I will say without a moment of hesitation
    There is just one place
    That can light my face.
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary Indiana,
    Not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome, but--
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary, Indiana,
    Gary Indiana,
    My home sweet home.

    -- "The Music Man"

    ***

    Historical population

    Census Pop. %±
    1910 16,802 —
    1920 55,378 229.6%
    1930 100,666 81.8%
    1940 111,719 11.0%
    1950 133,911 19.9%
    1960 178,320 33.2%
    1970 175,415 −1.6%
    1980 151,968 −13.4%
    1990 116,646 −23.2%
    2000 102,746 −11.9%
    2010 80,294 −21.9%
    Est. 2013 78,450 −2.3%

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary,_Indiana#Demographics

    ***

    Gary, today, is roughly half as populous as it was when I was born, a few months after “The City of the Century” celebrated its semi-centennial– little knowing that its eventual peak was just around the corner….

  126. @Steve Sailer
    Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like "The Departed" and "The Town." "The General" is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to

    To say nothing of the aptly-named “Kill the Irishman”.

  127. AMC decided to post the final scene of Mad Men at their YouTube account:

  128. @Anonymous
    Wiener means resident of Vienna.

    Well, that’s *one* meaning of the name. There may even be a few people who think of that meaning first.

  129. @H2
    Steve, do you have a book/compilation of some of your best posts? E.g. John Derbyshire has "From the Dissident Right" and "From the Dissident Right: Part 2." The only book I see on Amazon from you is The Half-Blood Prince. It'd also be another way for us readers to give you some money!

    Because WASP’s were the elite, those who want to be the elite target them. The Nazi’s didn’t direct a lot of hostilely to Australian Aborigines, but to Jews and Russians, who Germans had already had conflicts with and who they were most afraid of.

    Because Anglo White Protestants kiss their butts so much and have no internal solidarity. They are the perfect victims. Their sycophancy breeds contempt and their pathological individualism makes them easy to knock over.

    It’s also jealousy.

    Anti-white racism is different from other kinds of racism. It’s hate and envy and wanting to be us mixed up. Racism from say, whites directed at blacks or between Arabs and Jews is mostly just not wanting to be around people that are different. Weiner wants to be a WASP too, he is just confused about it. That’s where the hate comes. He hates that he wants to be like WASP’s rather than like his ancestors in the Shtetl. So he hates the WASP’s for making him have these feelings of inferiority and envy.

    If Weiner didn’t want to be a WASP, he would become a Hasid or move to Israel.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    Racism from say, whites directed at blacks or between Arabs and Jews is mostly just not wanting to be around people that are different.
     
    Blacks and Jews will tell you this, but it's your choice if you believe it.
  130. Ivy says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "OsRazor says:

    Weiner is saying–”Look fellow Jews. Is that what our parents and we wanted to emulate all this time? Some soulless bastard thing like Don Draper? We’re better than them, much more noble, so stop it and don’t feel bad for even a fleeting moment at insults and slights you might have suffered with WASPs. They’re not worth it. Good riddance.”

    So, Weiner is saying, in effect: "Why would you want to be like this entirely fictional punching-bag of a character, whom I created out of whole cloth, and cast in the worst possible light"? Yes indeed, that is a powerful message. Snidely Whiplash was a very morally instructive character too. Why would anybody want to be like Snidely Whiplash? Or Lex Luthor? Or Keyser Soze?

    And what could be a more soulless job than TV screen-writer and show-runner? Weiner's father was a distinguished physician - a man who did real things - cured the sick, helped people. The son is a retailer of stylish ethnic-grievance propaganda.

    The top Jewish guy in the office was overheard by various co-workers telling his fellow tribal folk that “We’re the better ones“, which became part of the office folklore as “We’re the bedouins“. That kind of made sense, what with all that wandering and all.

    Then he doubled down with the Yiddische Kopf thing, which transitioned to Scheisskopf.

    He didn’t do himself or anyone else any favors, and was looked upon more with pity and bemusement.

  131. “Adding money and education doesn’t take the rude edge out of people.” Sophisticated anti-Semitism. I overheard that line when I was a schoolteacher. The person, of course, didn’t know they were in the presence of a Jew

    .

    “An anti-Semitic comment ‘overheard’ by a person whom the speaker didn’t know was a Jew” sounds like the ret-conned version of “a criticism of Matthew Weiner’s obnoxious behavior spoken by a person who knew perfectly well that they were in the presence of Matthew Weiner”.

  132. Move over, Oprah (if there’s enough room) another $30,000 handbag customer has been abused.

  133. @Anonymous
    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name. I'm fine with going along to get along and don't make a big deal of Jewishness if it's not brought up. However, in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can't keep it to himself. It doesn't matter whether the noticers are liberals or conservatives/traditionalists (it's been a mix of both), they seem to want Jews, or at least me, to remain separate.

    I look Jewish and have a Jewish last name…in any group of non-Jews (White or otherwise) that I encounter, there is almost always at least one person who knows and can’t keep it to himself.

    This happens to anyone with a strongly “ethnic” name and appearance. You and “Red” O’Reilly and Lars “Swede” Gustafson can get together and have a pity-party.

    Lars and Red would probably get annoyed with your whining and kick your ass, though. (Every day!)

  134. I’m surprised Udolpho hasn’t shown up yet to whine about how everyone here is being “unfair” to his favorite soap opera.

  135. IBC says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Back when the New York Stock Exchanged was created in 1792, there were 24 signatories. 5 of those signatories were Jewish, at a time when Jews were far less than 0.1 percent of America's population.

    If WASPs historically worked to exclude Jews from the establishment, they obviously weren't trying very hard - even as far back as the late 1700s.

    Of course that's not the point. Jewish leaders understand that maintaining Jewish solidarity requires setting up a boogeyman to keep the Jewish population in a state of perpetual fear, anger, and loathing. If Jewish intellectuals have to falsify history to make Jews seem like marginalized outsiders, that's a small price to pay for maintaining Jewish ethnic identity.

    For one early WASP perspective on Jews, see George Washington’s “Letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island” written in 1790:

    It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

    It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my administration and fervent wishes for my felicity.

    May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants—while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.

    http://www.tourosynagogue.org/history-learning/gw-letter

  136. @Anonymous
    That's been sort of a common trope in American entertainment for a while - the seemingly happy, middle American suburban family life in reality conceals dark demons like a loveless marriage, abuse, emotional coldness, alcoholism, repressed sexuality, latent homosexuality, etc.

    You just gave the perfect synopsis of the Loud family. a very popular, and maybe the first “reality show” from the seventies.

  137. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    If Weiner wasn't just blowing smoke out of his ass, well ... his show would have sucked.

    All drama has conflict. If he decides to frame it as ethnic or racist or whatever ... that narrative is large enough and flexible enough so support anything. So he hauls it out whenever it seems useful.

    There are dozens of ways to explain the show's success. Smoking. Nostalgia, Don Draper's sexual prowess, boozing it up. The period furniture and outfits.

    Everyone is ALWAYS an outsider. Was Charles De Gaulle an insider or an outsider? Of course he was as French as it got, but being a loser is worse. Ask the Confederates. Everyone that is part of anything is not a part of everything. And on and on.

    The whole white, WASP thing is remarkable because it had to disappear before it was ambiguous enough to ascribe mystical powers to it.

    No one gives a fuck about LaCrosse except Hopkins students. It is a money losing sport. Frats? Come on .. round to zero.

    Does White privilege explain hedge fund founders?

    To be an outsider, there needs to be insiders. It can take a lot of imagination, but that's what show runners do. On Mad Men, Pete Campbell was a 'Dykeman' or whatever ... and it was totally over then. If you weren't trying to impress some condo board that realistically couldn't stop anyone with money regardless of their fantasies. A nice little plot element.

    No one can't frame their life as overcoming 'outsiderness' in some convoluted way or another.

    “There are dozens of ways to explain the show’s success. Smoking. Nostalgia, Don Draper’s sexual prowess, boozing it up. The period furniture and outfits.”

    All of those reasons. It also didn’t hurt that commercials for it during its first season had AmyWinehouse’s “You know I’m no Good” playing in the background.

  138. Nonsense.

    I actually watched all of Mad Men, and am basing my opinion on what was on screen, and not what Wiener panders to The Paris Review and the like.

    The heroes of the show are celebrated way more than they are vilified. If he wanted to portray a negative view of powerful male WASPs he sure did a terrible job. For a contemporary show that attempts to capture the 1960s decade, there was very little discussion of Civil Rights, Gay Rights, Anti-Semitism — all of these were barely touched upon even though the opportunity was right there.

    The series wasn’t about “white power” bur rather the growth of corporatism; the faceless taking over the personal, the “real” being quickly coopted and sold back to you. Let’s look at the ending (SPOILERS AHEAD): Sterling Cooper gets absorbed into a giant mega-agency, and all the energy of the 60s is synthesized brilliantly into a Coke ad with multiculti hippies singing on a hilltop. By 1971! Almost instantaneously.

    Don didn’t have a Zen moment while chanting ooommmm — he had an epiphany on how to finally translate what he’s seeing around him into yet another ad. The giveaway is that his brow is furred instead of relaxed. Thinking not meditating.

    Cooooke… it’s the real thing!

  139. IBC says:
    @Anonymous
    Daniel O'Connell insulted Disraeli first and raised the issue of his Jewish origins. From wiki:

    "The Irish MP Daniel O'Connell, misled by inaccurate press reports, thought Disraeli had slandered him while electioneering at Taunton; he launched an outspoken attack, referring to Disraeli as:

    'a reptile ... just fit now, after being twice discarded by the people, to become a Conservative. He possesses all the necessary requisites of perfidy, selfishness, depravity, want of principle, etc., which would qualify him for the change. His name shows that he is of Jewish origin. I do not use it as a term of reproach; there are many most respectable Jews. But there are, as in every other people, some of the lowest and most disgusting grade of moral turpitude; and of those I look upon Mr. Disraeli as the worst.'"

    In the 1850s or very early 1860s, there was a very similar exchange between Senator Benjamin Wade of Ohio (later a Radical Republican) and Judah P. Benjamin, then a senator from Louisiana, but who later on was a prominent Confederate cabinet member and advisor to Jefferson Davis. Supposedly, he was the first Jewish person to hold such a position in any North American government.

    … his [Judah P. Benjamin’s] prominence as a Jew assured that he would come under harsh scrutiny, both during and after his life. For example, on the floor of the Senate Ben Wade of Ohio charged Benjamin with being an “Israelite in Egyptian clothing.” With characteristic eloquence, Benjamin replied, “It is true that I am a Jew, and when my ancestors were receiving their Ten Commandments from the immediate Deity, amidst the thundering and lightnings of Mt. Sinai, the ancestors of my opponent were herding swine in the forests of Great Britain.

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Benjamin.html

    I’m not sure of the exact year, but the O’Connell/Disraeli incident happened in 1835, so perhaps Judah Benjamin had read about Disraeli’s response and thereafter kept it mentally on hand as future personal comeback material.

    Interestingly, Judah P. Benjamin was actually married to a Roman Catholic woman, although their marriage was very troubled and they eventually become estranged. Apparently, based on some of the details of his personal life and contemporary historical insinuations, some historians are now even suggesting that he was actually gay. If that’s true, it’s good news for Gay History Month!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What the heck is an "Istaelite in Egyptian clothing"?
    , @PV van der Byl
    Benjamin was the only Confederate cabinet officer not to surrender to the Union.

    He simply left the U.S. and never came back.

    He went to London via Cuba and became a very prominent barrister, a Queen's Counsel, in fact.
  140. @Mike Zwick
    My father grew up on a North Dakota farm with no running water or electricity. They plowed the fields with teams of horses! He moved to Chicago in the 50's and worked in a steel mill while my mom worked in a plastics factory.

    Why don’t Whites talk about the humble backgrounds of their grandparents more?

    I’m an “immigrant”, and back in the 80s I used to love listening the life stories from WASP old timers (Scotch Irish/German/Dutch) and it used to amaze me when they told me how their mothers used to work looking after rich old people, or how their fathers kept chickens in Long Island to sell eggs in Queens, or farmed and sold fresh vegtables. Some of their parents were orphans and brought up by uncles/aunts. Others had siblings that died in early childhood (I can still remember the quite pain in their eyes talking about that). I know there are books about poor Whites (of Mice and Men come to mind) that one can read, and some movies as well I guess, but it is nothing like listening to real life stories. There was no boasting or self-pity as they told their stories, just sharing their stories with me, an African teen, because I had expressed an interest. They were so dignified.

    I know Jews, Italian and Irish have similar stories.

    Most non-White immigrants don’t know this part of American Whites, and think that most Whites were always wealthy, or became wealthy insidiously. There is so much misinformation out there, and also no information.

  141. @Dave
    So when woman says she wants a big weiner, she's really saying she wants a big glass of wine?

    No, the point is that she’s saying “wiener”, not “weiner”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "No, the point is that she’s saying “wiener”, not “weiner”."

    Are they pronounced differently?

  142. @IBC
    In the 1850s or very early 1860s, there was a very similar exchange between Senator Benjamin Wade of Ohio (later a Radical Republican) and Judah P. Benjamin, then a senator from Louisiana, but who later on was a prominent Confederate cabinet member and advisor to Jefferson Davis. Supposedly, he was the first Jewish person to hold such a position in any North American government.

    ... his [Judah P. Benjamin's] prominence as a Jew assured that he would come under harsh scrutiny, both during and after his life. For example, on the floor of the Senate Ben Wade of Ohio charged Benjamin with being an “Israelite in Egyptian clothing.” With characteristic eloquence, Benjamin replied, “It is true that I am a Jew, and when my ancestors were receiving their Ten Commandments from the immediate Deity, amidst the thundering and lightnings of Mt. Sinai, the ancestors of my opponent were herding swine in the forests of Great Britain.
     
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Benjamin.html

    I'm not sure of the exact year, but the O'Connell/Disraeli incident happened in 1835, so perhaps Judah Benjamin had read about Disraeli's response and thereafter kept it mentally on hand as future personal comeback material.

    Interestingly, Judah P. Benjamin was actually married to a Roman Catholic woman, although their marriage was very troubled and they eventually become estranged. Apparently, based on some of the details of his personal life and contemporary historical insinuations, some historians are now even suggesting that he was actually gay. If that's true, it's good news for Gay History Month!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

    What the heck is an “Istaelite in Egyptian clothing”?

  143. @International Jew
    No, the point is that she's saying "wiener", not "weiner".

    “No, the point is that she’s saying “wiener”, not “weiner”.”

    Are they pronounced differently?

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    A German would pronounce wiener as you would "veener."

    For that matter, the capital of Austria (Wien) is pronounced "veen."

    A German would pronounce weiner as you would "viner."
  144. @Steve Sailer
    O'Connell did have a bit of a point about Disraeli personally. Disraeli's is an amazing story, kind of like Dr. Oz becoming President. Or kind of like if the first black President had been Richard Pryor or James Brown.

    Or kind of like if the first black President had been Richard Pryor or James Brown.

    I can say without hint of irony that either one of those men would have done better than the two black presidents we have in fact been inflicted with.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    James Brown's Cabinet meetings would be awesome. There'd be disputes for decades over "what the President actually said".
  145. Certain male artists like to show that they’re feminists as a way to get girls.

    So do some people claim to be victims so as to reap the benefits thereof?

    If so, would that be pimpy?

  146. @Desiderius
    Yeah, I happened to catch his monologue for SNL. Tired BS about how racist the 70s were. He does this edgy face while saying things that would be so conventional if they were even true...

    Painful to watch.

    If Louis CK didn’t exist, SWPLs would have had to invent him. He’s so edgy and politically incorrect! Sarah Silverman serves the same function.

  147. @Cagey Beast
    People should follow the recent example of the Navajo actors who walked off Adam Sandler's film set.

    That would stimulate the lefty jibe, in coordinated chorus:

    “Ohhh, poor picked on white people; you have it so hard!”

    It’s usually against any straight, white male who complains about maltreatment, no matter how obvious or egregious, but it can also be used against whites as a whole.

  148. @Anonymous
    On the contrary, I find that many jews can't seem to help themselves from reminding all they encounter that they are jewish.

    This. I went to a state school that was largely Jewish and was surrounded by Jewish people. They cannot help themselves.

  149. @anon
    I think that photo is most of it.

    Weiner wants/always wanted to look like the actor - understandably - and he resents the people who looked like that at his school.

    And he does have a point in a way - yeah brains and all etc but at the end of the day tall good-looking men get a relatively easy ride in life unless they deliberately make it hard on themselves.

    Do you know what good-looking actors have to do to become actors? Good-looking actors do not have an easy ride to acting careers. Hollywood is run by a gay mafia.

  150. @Dave Pinsen
    The funny thing is the Mafiosi on The Sopranos weren't portrayed glamorously at all. They were shown as brutal, crude, disloyal, tacky, and uneducated.

    It's the same phenomenon with war movies. It's impossible to make an antiwar movie that will be viewed as such by young men who join the military.

    “It’s impossible to make an antiwar movie that will be viewed as such by young men who join the military.”

    Johnny Got His Gun?

  151. Dave says:
    @Pat Hannagan
    Two things that fascinate me are:

    1) Why is the Anglo-Saxon Protestant acronym prefaced with White? Isn't White assumed? Are there black Anglo-Saxons?

    2) After all the obvious hatred and general despising and loathing Jews feel, and generally dish towards ASPs, why do the ASPs remain the Jews biggest non-Jewish fanclub?

    No matter how many times a Weiner whines what he says above I can only imagine some gentrified ASP in a country club somewhere applauding the Weiner and resolving to invade another Mid East country to make up for the slight.

    You’ve got White Protestants and Black Protestants. Among White Protestants, there is a subclass of “Anglo-Saxons.”

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    Yes, of course there are White Protestants and non-White ones, the point is why the seemingly redundant use of White along with Anglo-Saxon?

    It's a tautology to say White Anglo-Saxon as there can only be White Anglo-Saxons. There are no other kind of Anglo-Saxons. White is being used for emphasis, whether it's a tautology or pleonasm I don't know but the redundant expression of the terms is being used for effect.

    There is more going on with the term and it's usage is not as perplexing as some are suggesting.

    On that point, I found an interesting article by Philip Weiss where the etymology of the term WASP is discussed: The Implosion of the WASPs–Er, White Protestants…

    Weiss quotes a correspondent, Paul Westman, that:

    "Baltzell published The Protestant Establishment in 1964. However, the first known appearance of the slur in print occurs in an article by a Jew, Andrew Hacker, "Liberal Democracy and Social Control," American Political Science Review 51 (1957): 1009-26 at 1010-1011."

    Weiss does not question whether it's true that Andrew Hacker is Jewish and accepts it at face value not even remarking on the assertion. It's interesting, if true, that the first written usage of the term WASP is by a Jew.

    Westman also goes on to note my second point of fascination:

    Robert Christopher deserves credit for one thing: despite enthusiastically cheering WASPs’ destruction, he does acknowledge that Baltzell’s thesis was fundamentally flawed, in that WASPs did not forcefully defend their elite status. On the contrary, they rather quickly and proactively surrendered their advantages to Jews and others. (Just to be clear, personally I regard this as a fact but not a virtue.) Years later, independently of Christopher, essayist Joseph Epstein arrived at the same conclusion. He termed the strange phenomenon "the Wasp self-divestment of power":

    "The Wasp old guard put up the white flag without a shot being fired. Suddenly bars began to drop: in formerly restricted neighborhoods, in previously elite country and city clubs, in once white-shoe bank, law, and investment firms. Once-snobbish institutions loosened up, opened up, disappeared. The closest thing to an aristocracy that America had known was now most prominently in evidence in the magazine ads of a small grey-haired Jewish designer named Ralph Lauren (ne Lifschitz). Perhaps the best analogy to the Wasp self-divestment of power is that of the British giving up their empire. Both may have felt that the need to do so was inevitable–and quite possibly it was–but each came away diminished, disliked, even a little despised for having done so. To this day in America, the Wasps are the one group about which-in a politically correct atmosphere–jokes can be made with impunity." –Joseph Epstein, "In a snob-free zone," Washington Monthly (June 2002).

    (Those Country Clubs again.)

    So, from a quick perusal of the subject it looks like the term WASP was first produced in print by a Jew, taken up by two seeming WASPS in Baltzell and Christopher, from whence it took on a life of its own.

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as "wealthy" whereas the cited quote Westman provides states "white". If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

    In summary, in answer to my own two points of fascination, 1) I think redundancy of White with Anglo-Saxon is for effect in the pejorative. 2) I don't understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.

    It's not as if the history of Britain is one of Christian piety, forgiveness 7 x 77 and a remorseless example of turning the other cheek, but something did happen during and post WWII to them that caused them to fold completely and transfer all that they had in the Old World and the New to another people deriving no benefit for themselves.

  152. @Jefferson
    1971's I'd Like To Buy The World A Coke commercial was actually filmed in the country of my ancestors, Italia.
    http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/coke-lore-hilltop-story#TCCC
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msbfN81Gm0

    Although a high percentage of the people in that commercial are obviously not Italian judging by the many Black, South Asian, and Oriental faces in that commercial.

    That was a very racially diverse commercial, especially by 1970s standards. Whenever I watch old commercials from the 1970s on Youtube, the vast majority of them tend to be very White.

    Coke flew in people from different parts of the world for that ad.

    • Replies: @OsRazor

    "Coke flew in people from different parts of the world for that ad."
     
    The stuff I read in Slate says that they tried first to film the commercial in England, but the weather sucked so they shipped off to Rome. It's a pretty entertaining story, so I'll quote at length:

    London brought bad weather so they moved to Rome. This first shoot was a disaster, a telling one.

    An Italian production company brought in 1,200 young extras from local orphanages. As the sun grew hotter, the orphans were kept locked in steaming buses. By noon the bored, parched teens were rocking the buses off their axles and wolfishly eyeing the big truck full of Cokes parked at the bottom of the hill. At the top, Davis stood on a conductor’s ladder, struggling to teach the united world chorus how to mouth lyrics in a language many did not speak.

    For the final scene—an aerial shot of the orphans cheering alongside the united world chorus—the teens were released from their buses. They raged loud and broad across the field. A beleaguered team of marshals finally corralled and herded them into place near the chorus. There the orphans took the glass bottles they had been handed and with an angry roar began flinging them at the director’s helicopter overhead. Then they stormed down the hill toward the Coke truck and tried to overturn it.

    Where was the harmony? It had been interrupted by a teenage riot worthy of Black Friday. Perhaps this, too, was what American exceptionalism looked like.

    The next day Wexler, still angry he had nearly been toppled from the sky to certain death over a stupid Coke commercial, fled the set, never to return. With a different crew and production company, a much smaller cast, and a different Italian location, the spot was finally completed. The “Buy the World” commercial was released in Europe, mostly to indifference.
     

    http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2015/05/coca_cola_s_it_s_the_real_thing_ad_how_the_mccann_erickson_ad_changed_american.html

    A different piece I read said that they combed the local embassies (staff, children, etc. of the embassy) for the cast that actually made the commercial. Boy, no one can get things done quite like movie people especially back then.

  153. @Steve Sailer
    "Amy Schumer’s whole schtick is that you, the viewer, must be soooooo uncomfortable with the fact that she has a television show in the first place."

    I was checking out the sports today on TV: NBC had golf, ABC had hockey, and Fox had a 65-year-old "I Love Lucy" episode.

    Amy Schumer used to be funny. Now she prefers to do “pointed” stuff about how women are unfairly judged by their looks in Hollywood. Except it’s all imagined slights. Like her “last f**kable day” sketch featuring Tina Fey, Julia Loiuse-Dreyfus, and Patricia Arquette – three extremely attractive, middle-aged women who have gone from success to success in Hollywood.

  154. @Maj. Kong
    WASP suggests a bicoastal overclass that created the Ivy League, country clubs, etc. This is the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and other Mainline Protestants.

    It doesn't suggest Middle American evangelical Protestants. (MAEP) That's the group that favored neoconservative foreign policy.

    I doubt that leftist Jews really hate their fellow bicoastal liberals, unless they think there is hidden reactionary inside them. Some might.

    There are downscale mainline Protestants too.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    There are downscale mainline Protestants too.
     
    We're doing what we can to run the last ones out the door, from what I've seen.
  155. IBC says:
    @Occupant

    "The whole appearance of the term “WASP” has always seemed pretty puzzling to me [...]"
     
    The term WASP gained currency with the publication of (the ever dapper) E. Digby Baltzell’s 1964 book The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America. Before that, Wikipedia tells us, the first published mention of the term was in 1957 by sociologist Andrew Hacker. According to Hacker’s usage, the ‘W’ stood for ‘Wealthy’ rather than ‘White’ (which makes more sense because less redundant).

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant. Hacker’s usage makes more sense though because the term is usually used to refer to upper-class whites -- usually Old Money, New Money, or Ivy League educated.

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant.

    I think a lot of people get hung up on the “Anglo-Saxon” part of “WASP” as exclusively referring to people of English descent. The term has been inconsistently used, and so yes, in this context it can best be understood as referring to English-speaking people of Northern European background. Otherwise, famous names such as Astor, Vanderbilt, Roosevelt, and Rockefeller would never have attained such legendary high society status.

    Back when a majority of Americans could more or less be described as “white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants,” the WASP term/epithet would have been useless, and “wealthy, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant” wouldn’t have been much better. As demographics and sensibilities have changed, “WASP” has gained currency as a convenient shorthand for non- “ethnic” whites even when it’s anachronistic and leads to false assumptions and intellectual laziness. It’s also a great device for people like Matthew Weiner to deflect attention away from their own privileged backgrounds by pointing fingers at a group of people who may not even cohesiveley exist anymore if they ever even did.

    For me, these days the ultimate WASP is Caroline Kennedy. She’s a US ambassador, a board member for the Metropolitan Museum, lives on the Upper East Side, probably “summers” on the Cape and spends lots of time in Aspen; and most importantly, she appears to derive most of her power and fame from dynastic connections and inherited wealth. On the other hand, she’s a woman of Irish Catholic background and her husband is half-Jewish. But do those really preclude her from WASP-insider status? And would they have done so 50 years ago? And if they did, of what consequence would it have been? The fact that someone’s an actual member of the ruling caste or “the establishment” is what to look out for, not their exact pedigree or how closely they follow the <a title=”""title=The” href=""title=The Official Preppy Handbook. The Official Preppy Handbook.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The most important figure in the early rise of golf in America before WWI was the imposing Charles Blair Macdonald, a Canadian-born Chicago businessman turned golf course designer who had studied at the U. of St. Andrews in the 1870s. Interestingly, there are a lot of anecdotes about him and his son in law or grandson (I forget which) playing at his National Golf Links of America in the Hamptons. The lad was, I believe, Peter Grace, the famous Irish-Catholic philanthropist. Macdonald's daughter had married the son of the first Catholic mayor of New York City.

    The National Golf Links of America is about as as WASPy as a club can get, but extremely rich and respectable Irish Catholics could not only get into the club, but marry the founder's daughter.
  156. Am I supposed to be repulsed by Draper? Geez, the reason I and all my friends (the Messicans included) watch that show is to revel in the awesomeness of the era, the suaveness of Draper, and the hotness of his women.

    I can’t honestly believe that Weiner doesn’t know this. The show is too lovingly crafted.

    It’s like that Simpsons episode where Bart has a fantasy of being a rock and roll star, and it’s basically him lying backstage in a puddle of urine, and Milhouse comes in and yells, “You used to be about the music!” and Bart throws a whiskey bottle at him and tells him to get the hell out. Then Bart wakes back up and says, “Coooool.”

    So, yes, Weiener depicts the soul-sucking nature of ascendant American consumer capitalism . . . but damn, does it look cool.

    Plus, he didn’t shy away at all from showing blacks behaving badly throughout an entire season.

    Also, in the interview, he says (somewhere between directly and indirectly) that Don Draper qua poor hillbilly isn’t “white.” So Weiner’s idea of “whiteness” is at least coded by class as much as by race. That would lend credence to the theory floated above that the entire show is addressed to his fellow Jews, as though he were saying, “Yes, I know being white looks awesome, but it also has a cost, so maybe we shouldn’t aspire to it.”

    Of course, the irony of Weiner’s saying Jews shouldn’t aspire to “whiteness” in light of his economic background must escape him. As if a rich son of a surgeon and TV superstar weren’t a thousand times more “white” due to his class status than an average Appalachian yokel.

  157. Filmer says: • Website

    Anglo-Saxon is not a particularly accurate ethnic designation because, in my understanding, it refers to the various Germanic tribes that occupied England as well as the native inhabitants who adopted the Old English language (not that they were that ethnically different), vs. those that still spoke Celtic languages. Anglo-Saxon presumably arises from Angles and Saxons, but it is almost more of a linguistic distinction that means something like English speaking British Islander. Much of the South was populated by Scots-Irish and back country borderlanders, but the vast majority were English speaking.

    As a Southerner a bit younger than Steve, I can’t recall ever referring to myself or my kind as an Anglo-Saxon or as a WASP. In fact, as I became involved in certain Southern circles, I noted that people who did use Anglo-Saxon a lot were generally people who had a racial or ethnic ax to grind, whether pro-Celtic and anti-Anglo-Saxon or pro-White. I always remember WASP as referring to Northeastern Elites, mainly Episcopalians, and their progeny wherever they wound up. Your average Southern boy who was Baptist or Methodist or Church or Christ or whatever, would not have referred to himself as a WASP or considered himself to be one.

  158. @Dave Pinsen
    Coke flew in people from different parts of the world for that ad.

    “Coke flew in people from different parts of the world for that ad.”

    The stuff I read in Slate says that they tried first to film the commercial in England, but the weather sucked so they shipped off to Rome. It’s a pretty entertaining story, so I’ll quote at length:

    London brought bad weather so they moved to Rome. This first shoot was a disaster, a telling one.

    An Italian production company brought in 1,200 young extras from local orphanages. As the sun grew hotter, the orphans were kept locked in steaming buses. By noon the bored, parched teens were rocking the buses off their axles and wolfishly eyeing the big truck full of Cokes parked at the bottom of the hill. At the top, Davis stood on a conductor’s ladder, struggling to teach the united world chorus how to mouth lyrics in a language many did not speak.

    For the final scene—an aerial shot of the orphans cheering alongside the united world chorus—the teens were released from their buses. They raged loud and broad across the field. A beleaguered team of marshals finally corralled and herded them into place near the chorus. There the orphans took the glass bottles they had been handed and with an angry roar began flinging them at the director’s helicopter overhead. Then they stormed down the hill toward the Coke truck and tried to overturn it.

    Where was the harmony? It had been interrupted by a teenage riot worthy of Black Friday. Perhaps this, too, was what American exceptionalism looked like.

    The next day Wexler, still angry he had nearly been toppled from the sky to certain death over a stupid Coke commercial, fled the set, never to return. With a different crew and production company, a much smaller cast, and a different Italian location, the spot was finally completed. The “Buy the World” commercial was released in Europe, mostly to indifference.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2015/05/coca_cola_s_it_s_the_real_thing_ad_how_the_mccann_erickson_ad_changed_american.html

    A different piece I read said that they combed the local embassies (staff, children, etc. of the embassy) for the cast that actually made the commercial. Boy, no one can get things done quite like movie people especially back then.

  159. Disraeli, like Weiner, seemed to prefer displacing the criticism leveled against him onto his tribe to taking it like a man. The latter might lead to introspection, AKA, Kryptonite.

  160. “I sympathize with feminism the same way I identify with gay people and with people of color, because I know what it’s like to look over the side of the fence and then to climb over the fence and to feel like you don’t belong, or be reminded at the worst moment that you don’t belong.”

    Weiner grew up during the emergence of the Donahue talk show, when pop psychology started to provide the leftist meme victim = hero, replacing the previous generation’s standard of handling life’s challenges and painful episodes with quiet dignity. It allowed groups who seemingly had it made to become among the downtrodden, so they to could join in on the fight against the White power structure.

    I stopped watching Mad Men after it became apparent that the show was a vehicle to exercise Weiner’s crush on Don Draper. Draper was the BMOC in high school who was barely aware of Matthew Weiner’s existence, yet was nice to him in passing. And because it’s a tedious show that largely takes place in an office.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Draper was the BMOC in high school who was barely aware of Matthew Weiner’s existence, yet was nice to him in passing."

    If you went through the yearbooks of the Harvard School for Weiner's time there, you could probably come up with a list of BMOCs on campus, most of whom were likely either the son of somebody famous or went on to be moderately famous themselves. For example, a BMOC at Harvard School about a dozen years before Weiner's time was quarterback Mark Harmon, son of a Heisman Trophy winner and now one of biggest Nielsen-garnering TV stars in history.

    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    Weiner grew up during the emergence of the Donahue talk show, when pop psychology started to provide the leftist meme victim = hero, replacing the previous generation’s standard of handling life’s challenges and painful episodes with quiet dignity. It allowed groups who seemingly had it made to become among the downtrodden, so they to could join in on the fight against the White power structure.
     
    Interesting. I've often wondered just when victim = hero became a theme -- and an aspiration -- in mainstream American culture. It was certainly already there in the early Oprah years, i.e. the 80s, but Donahue is a bit before my time. Some of this sense of the noble oppressed must go back to the 60s, with the civil rights era and the Vietnam war, but its spread into the mainstream population, i.e. 'you too can be a victim -- even though you're a nice white suburban lady -- and get lots of attention and adoration on national TV' does seem to come later.
  161. @Marc
    "I sympathize with feminism the same way I identify with gay people and with people of color, because I know what it’s like to look over the side of the fence and then to climb over the fence and to feel like you don’t belong, or be reminded at the worst moment that you don’t belong."

    Weiner grew up during the emergence of the Donahue talk show, when pop psychology started to provide the leftist meme victim = hero, replacing the previous generation's standard of handling life's challenges and painful episodes with quiet dignity. It allowed groups who seemingly had it made to become among the downtrodden, so they to could join in on the fight against the White power structure.

    I stopped watching Mad Men after it became apparent that the show was a vehicle to exercise Weiner's crush on Don Draper. Draper was the BMOC in high school who was barely aware of Matthew Weiner's existence, yet was nice to him in passing. And because it's a tedious show that largely takes place in an office.

    “Draper was the BMOC in high school who was barely aware of Matthew Weiner’s existence, yet was nice to him in passing.”

    If you went through the yearbooks of the Harvard School for Weiner’s time there, you could probably come up with a list of BMOCs on campus, most of whom were likely either the son of somebody famous or went on to be moderately famous themselves. For example, a BMOC at Harvard School about a dozen years before Weiner’s time was quarterback Mark Harmon, son of a Heisman Trophy winner and now one of biggest Nielsen-garnering TV stars in history.

  162. @OsRazor
    Well, Weiner saw it out to the bitter end. You've got to give him credit for perseverance. My God, to have the stamina and physical well-being to be able to hate so much every morning you wake up, driven by it, day in, day out.

    1. He killed off his most hated character in the show--Betty Draper (the ultimate, blue-eyed blonde shiksa, the type of girl every Jewish boy beat off to incessantly from the time he was ten or eleven)--by giving her lung cancer in her late 30s and having her sitting silently and coldly at the kitchen table smoking a cigarette while her daughter washed dishes in the background, the same daughter who'd just left college to watch out for her dying mother. It was absolutely brutal and vulgar, a gleeful killing, had be watched to be believed. I've never seen a character treated less sympathetically in a so-called high brow drama.

    2. He made the main WASP character the author of all that liberals and progressives think is wrong with this country--cynical corporate consumerism--because, as we know, WASPs have absolutely dominated advertising and media since WW2--it's not even close. After suffering a near mental and physical breakdown, Don Draper finds himself at a hippie commune type retreat, knows he's made his life and the lives of his closest and dearest shit, and just when everyone thought he would jump off the cliff and into the Pacific--the commune is CA, of course--he finds humanity in another WASPish (if much less impressive and important) person and is rejuvenated. He greets a brilliant CA morning in a Yoga Session surrounded by other middle-aged hippies and the idea for a new ad campaign hits him--the show ends with Coke's famous 1971 commercial about Coke being the real thing--the Hilltop commercial.

    We're made to understand, WASPs never change, there's no spiritual depth there whatever (unlike all those "outsiders"). Draper is just onto his latest manic-depressive cycle of brilliant creation followed by tawdry collapse. More important, WASPs use people and things--the environment, others' emotions, etc. It's just the way they are.

    Absolutely appalling--again, Weiner demonstrated no sympathy whatever for his main character, he pins all that is awful in America on him, treats him as some demi-demon type figure we should all be afraid of. The Koch brothers all rolled into one in 1970.

    Amazing. No introspection or artistry in Weiner--everything was driven by hatred and anger. And people will applaud his performance.

    “1. He killed off his most hated character in the show–Betty Draper (the ultimate, blue-eyed blonde shiksa, the type of girl every Jewish boy beat off to incessantly from the time he was ten or eleven)”

    We never saw Betty die on screen. Also a fondness for blue eyed blonde Northern European chicks is not limited to Jewish guys. I am Italian and my first big childhood crush on an actress was Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.

    • Replies: @OsRazor

    We never saw Betty die on screen. Also a fondness for blue eyed blonde Northern European chicks is not limited to Jewish guys. I am Italian and my first big childhood crush on an actress was Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.
     
    The last several episodes were devoted to tying up loose ends and showing the viewer what would become of the characters. Giving Betty Draper late stage terminal lung cancer (which she refuses to treat or intervene against and which her doctors says gives her only a few months left) tells us all we need to know about BD long-term, no? She's dead, right? In her late 30s, prime of her life, just as she was pursuing her dreams of becoming a psychologist or some such. Can we agree he killed her off? Did we need a zombie to disembowel her circa The Walking Dead? Would that have satisfied you?

    It would have been more believable if she'd been murdered/raped by the creepy neighbor boy character/stalker played by Weiner's son, but instead Weiner chose to give her the most painful and awful departure possible. He was relentless--the last shot of her is sitting cadaver like smoking a cigarette seated at her kitchen table. The ice princess with no soul or feeling till the end--wasn't that the point of the shot? Could it have been more obvious?

    Weiner had contempt for her, thoroughly and utterly, from the very start--she fit every stereotype of the unfeeling awful WASPy girl, without any redeeming qualities. Shallow, greedy, mean and fake. It seemed rather obvious to me that Weiner took a lot of pleasure in portraying her with as little sympathy as possible.

    And, of course, to your second point, most normal heterosexual men of all races, creeds, etc., are interested in Blondes with Blue Eyes--I don't need to get into the reasons why, but they do. I applaud you for lusting after Marcia Brady--but did you want her humiliated and despised? Were you anxious to see her put down several pegs from her pedestal of loveliness? Did you want to expose her for being a miserable creature of no substance or value? Weiner did all those things to BD with such glee one can't help but wonder why. Or maybe it was all just coincidence.

  163. @International Jew
    Not really. You're mixing up Weiner and Wiener. Wiener means "from Vienna" and is thus the one with a hot dog conotation. Whereas Weiner comes from the German word for wine and thus has nothing to do with wieners.

    Well, there is the German noun Wein, meaning wine, in English.

    There is also the verb weinen, meaning crying in English. So, a Weiner is a cry-baby or a “whiner.”

    And Yiddish is a German dialect.

  164. @IBC

    Alternately ‘Anglo-Saxon’ could be taken to mean ‘English-speaking’. Therefore WASP would mean an an English-speaking white Protestant.
     
    I think a lot of people get hung up on the "Anglo-Saxon" part of "WASP" as exclusively referring to people of English descent. The term has been inconsistently used, and so yes, in this context it can best be understood as referring to English-speaking people of Northern European background. Otherwise, famous names such as Astor, Vanderbilt, Roosevelt, and Rockefeller would never have attained such legendary high society status.

    Back when a majority of Americans could more or less be described as "white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants," the WASP term/epithet would have been useless, and "wealthy, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant" wouldn't have been much better. As demographics and sensibilities have changed, "WASP" has gained currency as a convenient shorthand for non- "ethnic" whites even when it's anachronistic and leads to false assumptions and intellectual laziness. It's also a great device for people like Matthew Weiner to deflect attention away from their own privileged backgrounds by pointing fingers at a group of people who may not even cohesiveley exist anymore if they ever even did.

    For me, these days the ultimate WASP is Caroline Kennedy. She's a US ambassador, a board member for the Metropolitan Museum, lives on the Upper East Side, probably "summers" on the Cape and spends lots of time in Aspen; and most importantly, she appears to derive most of her power and fame from dynastic connections and inherited wealth. On the other hand, she's a woman of Irish Catholic background and her husband is half-Jewish. But do those really preclude her from WASP-insider status? And would they have done so 50 years ago? And if they did, of what consequence would it have been? The fact that someone's an actual member of the ruling caste or "the establishment" is what to look out for, not their exact pedigree or how closely they follow the <a href=""title=The Official Preppy Handbook. The Official Preppy Handbook.

    The most important figure in the early rise of golf in America before WWI was the imposing Charles Blair Macdonald, a Canadian-born Chicago businessman turned golf course designer who had studied at the U. of St. Andrews in the 1870s. Interestingly, there are a lot of anecdotes about him and his son in law or grandson (I forget which) playing at his National Golf Links of America in the Hamptons. The lad was, I believe, Peter Grace, the famous Irish-Catholic philanthropist. Macdonald’s daughter had married the son of the first Catholic mayor of New York City.

    The National Golf Links of America is about as as WASPy as a club can get, but extremely rich and respectable Irish Catholics could not only get into the club, but marry the founder’s daughter.

    • Replies: @IBC
    That's interesting. In a late 1930s Fortune magazine article, the Grace family (W.R. Grace and Company) was described as being preeminent among the handful of families then controlling the Peruvian economy. The author likened the country's situation to "a beggar sitting on a bench made of gold."

    In Peru, being Catholic was probably a social asset for the Grace family. And it doesn't seem to have been much of a handicap for them in the US either.

    I don't know if you saw this, but according to Wikipedia, Charles Macdonald was partly Mohawk Indian. More diversity before it was diversity! It's important not to overstate the phenomenon, but there was even an officer of substantial Mohawk background (and also Canadian-born) who died with Custer's 7th Cavalry at the Little Big Horn!
  165. @Anonymous
    "No, the point is that she’s saying “wiener”, not “weiner”."

    Are they pronounced differently?

    A German would pronounce wiener as you would “veener.”

    For that matter, the capital of Austria (Wien) is pronounced “veen.”

    A German would pronounce weiner as you would “viner.”

  166. @Anonymous
    Wiener means resident of Vienna.

    True.

    But the name is Weiner.

    German Wein = wine in English.

    Thus Weiner somebody who makes or serves wine.

    But it can also be a misspelling of Wiener (somebody from Wien=Viena)

  167. @IBC
    In the 1850s or very early 1860s, there was a very similar exchange between Senator Benjamin Wade of Ohio (later a Radical Republican) and Judah P. Benjamin, then a senator from Louisiana, but who later on was a prominent Confederate cabinet member and advisor to Jefferson Davis. Supposedly, he was the first Jewish person to hold such a position in any North American government.

    ... his [Judah P. Benjamin's] prominence as a Jew assured that he would come under harsh scrutiny, both during and after his life. For example, on the floor of the Senate Ben Wade of Ohio charged Benjamin with being an “Israelite in Egyptian clothing.” With characteristic eloquence, Benjamin replied, “It is true that I am a Jew, and when my ancestors were receiving their Ten Commandments from the immediate Deity, amidst the thundering and lightnings of Mt. Sinai, the ancestors of my opponent were herding swine in the forests of Great Britain.
     
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Benjamin.html

    I'm not sure of the exact year, but the O'Connell/Disraeli incident happened in 1835, so perhaps Judah Benjamin had read about Disraeli's response and thereafter kept it mentally on hand as future personal comeback material.

    Interestingly, Judah P. Benjamin was actually married to a Roman Catholic woman, although their marriage was very troubled and they eventually become estranged. Apparently, based on some of the details of his personal life and contemporary historical insinuations, some historians are now even suggesting that he was actually gay. If that's true, it's good news for Gay History Month!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

    Benjamin was the only Confederate cabinet officer not to surrender to the Union.

    He simply left the U.S. and never came back.

    He went to London via Cuba and became a very prominent barrister, a Queen’s Counsel, in fact.

  168. @Jefferson
    "1. He killed off his most hated character in the show–Betty Draper (the ultimate, blue-eyed blonde shiksa, the type of girl every Jewish boy beat off to incessantly from the time he was ten or eleven)"

    We never saw Betty die on screen. Also a fondness for blue eyed blonde Northern European chicks is not limited to Jewish guys. I am Italian and my first big childhood crush on an actress was Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.

    We never saw Betty die on screen. Also a fondness for blue eyed blonde Northern European chicks is not limited to Jewish guys. I am Italian and my first big childhood crush on an actress was Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.

    The last several episodes were devoted to tying up loose ends and showing the viewer what would become of the characters. Giving Betty Draper late stage terminal lung cancer (which she refuses to treat or intervene against and which her doctors says gives her only a few months left) tells us all we need to know about BD long-term, no? She’s dead, right? In her late 30s, prime of her life, just as she was pursuing her dreams of becoming a psychologist or some such. Can we agree he killed her off? Did we need a zombie to disembowel her circa The Walking Dead? Would that have satisfied you?

    It would have been more believable if she’d been murdered/raped by the creepy neighbor boy character/stalker played by Weiner’s son, but instead Weiner chose to give her the most painful and awful departure possible. He was relentless–the last shot of her is sitting cadaver like smoking a cigarette seated at her kitchen table. The ice princess with no soul or feeling till the end–wasn’t that the point of the shot? Could it have been more obvious?

    Weiner had contempt for her, thoroughly and utterly, from the very start–she fit every stereotype of the unfeeling awful WASPy girl, without any redeeming qualities. Shallow, greedy, mean and fake. It seemed rather obvious to me that Weiner took a lot of pleasure in portraying her with as little sympathy as possible.

    And, of course, to your second point, most normal heterosexual men of all races, creeds, etc., are interested in Blondes with Blue Eyes–I don’t need to get into the reasons why, but they do. I applaud you for lusting after Marcia Brady–but did you want her humiliated and despised? Were you anxious to see her put down several pegs from her pedestal of loveliness? Did you want to expose her for being a miserable creature of no substance or value? Weiner did all those things to BD with such glee one can’t help but wonder why. Or maybe it was all just coincidence.

    • Replies: @Lackawanna
    Exactly. All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place.

    With Jewish and Arab men, there is something sick going on. Feelings personal sexual inferiority, disgust with their own women, resentment, rage and sadism. The women have their own version of this too.

    This psychology drives behavior.
  169. @Maj. Kong
    WASP suggests a bicoastal overclass that created the Ivy League, country clubs, etc. This is the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and other Mainline Protestants.

    It doesn't suggest Middle American evangelical Protestants. (MAEP) That's the group that favored neoconservative foreign policy.

    I doubt that leftist Jews really hate their fellow bicoastal liberals, unless they think there is hidden reactionary inside them. Some might.

    WASP suggests a bicoastal overclass that created the Ivy League, country clubs, etc. This is the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, United Church of Christ and other Mainline Protestants.

    It doesn’t suggest Middle American evangelical Protestants. (MAEP) That’s the group that favored neoconservative foreign policy.

    As a MAEP (sort of, at least), I agree with your geographic-theological filters for defining WASPs. In fact, my perceptions have always focused on the denominational affiliation aspect of WASPiness. Episcopalianism is the standard, and not even all mainline denominations qualify. Methodists, for example, can never really be more than middle class, and hence cannot be WASPs, even though they’re the biggest mainline denomination.

    Hillary therefore isn’t a WASP, since she grew up Methodist. She certainly lacks the self-sacrificing sense of noblesse oblige . . . .

  170. @Dave
    You've got White Protestants and Black Protestants. Among White Protestants, there is a subclass of "Anglo-Saxons."

    Yes, of course there are White Protestants and non-White ones, the point is why the seemingly redundant use of White along with Anglo-Saxon?

    It’s a tautology to say White Anglo-Saxon as there can only be White Anglo-Saxons. There are no other kind of Anglo-Saxons. White is being used for emphasis, whether it’s a tautology or pleonasm I don’t know but the redundant expression of the terms is being used for effect.

    There is more going on with the term and it’s usage is not as perplexing as some are suggesting.

    On that point, I found an interesting article by Philip Weiss where the etymology of the term WASP is discussed: The Implosion of the WASPs–Er, White Protestants…

    Weiss quotes a correspondent, Paul Westman, that:

    “Baltzell published The Protestant Establishment in 1964. However, the first known appearance of the slur in print occurs in an article by a Jew, Andrew Hacker, “Liberal Democracy and Social Control,” American Political Science Review 51 (1957): 1009-26 at 1010-1011.”

    Weiss does not question whether it’s true that Andrew Hacker is Jewish and accepts it at face value not even remarking on the assertion. It’s interesting, if true, that the first written usage of the term WASP is by a Jew.

    Westman also goes on to note my second point of fascination:

    Robert Christopher deserves credit for one thing: despite enthusiastically cheering WASPs’ destruction, he does acknowledge that Baltzell’s thesis was fundamentally flawed, in that WASPs did not forcefully defend their elite status. On the contrary, they rather quickly and proactively surrendered their advantages to Jews and others. (Just to be clear, personally I regard this as a fact but not a virtue.) Years later, independently of Christopher, essayist Joseph Epstein arrived at the same conclusion. He termed the strange phenomenon “the Wasp self-divestment of power”:

    “The Wasp old guard put up the white flag without a shot being fired. Suddenly bars began to drop: in formerly restricted neighborhoods, in previously elite country and city clubs, in once white-shoe bank, law, and investment firms. Once-snobbish institutions loosened up, opened up, disappeared. The closest thing to an aristocracy that America had known was now most prominently in evidence in the magazine ads of a small grey-haired Jewish designer named Ralph Lauren (ne Lifschitz). Perhaps the best analogy to the Wasp self-divestment of power is that of the British giving up their empire. Both may have felt that the need to do so was inevitable–and quite possibly it was–but each came away diminished, disliked, even a little despised for having done so. To this day in America, the Wasps are the one group about which-in a politically correct atmosphere–jokes can be made with impunity.” –Joseph Epstein, “In a snob-free zone,” Washington Monthly (June 2002).

    (Those Country Clubs again.)

    So, from a quick perusal of the subject it looks like the term WASP was first produced in print by a Jew, taken up by two seeming WASPS in Baltzell and Christopher, from whence it took on a life of its own.

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as “wealthy” whereas the cited quote Westman provides states “white”. If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

    In summary, in answer to my own two points of fascination, 1) I think redundancy of White with Anglo-Saxon is for effect in the pejorative. 2) I don’t understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.

    It’s not as if the history of Britain is one of Christian piety, forgiveness 7 x 77 and a remorseless example of turning the other cheek, but something did happen during and post WWII to them that caused them to fold completely and transfer all that they had in the Old World and the New to another people deriving no benefit for themselves.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    I don’t understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.
     
    The WASPs themselves do not perceive it as a capitulation at all. In their minds they're in the process of transforming wolves into dogs where the other is undeniably hostile, and otherwise freeing their minds to embrace the friend that has always been there. Of course they're delusional, but that is usually what happens when humans confuse themselves with Gods.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as “wealthy” whereas the cited quote Westman provides states “white”. If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

     

    I had a look at the article; Hacker defines WASPs as follows:

    First of all, they are 'WASPs'--in the cocktail party jargon of the sociologists. That is, they are white, they are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and they are Protestant (and disproportionately Episcopalian). To their Waspishness should be added the tendency to be located on the Eastern Seaboard or around San Francisco, to be prep school and Ivy League educated, and to be possessed of inherited wealth.

     

    So 'white', clearly.
  171. IBC says:
    @Steve Sailer
    The most important figure in the early rise of golf in America before WWI was the imposing Charles Blair Macdonald, a Canadian-born Chicago businessman turned golf course designer who had studied at the U. of St. Andrews in the 1870s. Interestingly, there are a lot of anecdotes about him and his son in law or grandson (I forget which) playing at his National Golf Links of America in the Hamptons. The lad was, I believe, Peter Grace, the famous Irish-Catholic philanthropist. Macdonald's daughter had married the son of the first Catholic mayor of New York City.

    The National Golf Links of America is about as as WASPy as a club can get, but extremely rich and respectable Irish Catholics could not only get into the club, but marry the founder's daughter.

    That’s interesting. In a late 1930s Fortune magazine article, the Grace family (W.R. Grace and Company) was described as being preeminent among the handful of families then controlling the Peruvian economy. The author likened the country’s situation to “a beggar sitting on a bench made of gold.”

    In Peru, being Catholic was probably a social asset for the Grace family. And it doesn’t seem to have been much of a handicap for them in the US either.

    I don’t know if you saw this, but according to Wikipedia, Charles Macdonald was partly Mohawk Indian. More diversity before it was diversity! It’s important not to overstate the phenomenon, but there was even an officer of substantial Mohawk background (and also Canadian-born) who died with Custer’s 7th Cavalry at the Little Big Horn!

  172. @Marc
    "I sympathize with feminism the same way I identify with gay people and with people of color, because I know what it’s like to look over the side of the fence and then to climb over the fence and to feel like you don’t belong, or be reminded at the worst moment that you don’t belong."

    Weiner grew up during the emergence of the Donahue talk show, when pop psychology started to provide the leftist meme victim = hero, replacing the previous generation's standard of handling life's challenges and painful episodes with quiet dignity. It allowed groups who seemingly had it made to become among the downtrodden, so they to could join in on the fight against the White power structure.

    I stopped watching Mad Men after it became apparent that the show was a vehicle to exercise Weiner's crush on Don Draper. Draper was the BMOC in high school who was barely aware of Matthew Weiner's existence, yet was nice to him in passing. And because it's a tedious show that largely takes place in an office.

    Weiner grew up during the emergence of the Donahue talk show, when pop psychology started to provide the leftist meme victim = hero, replacing the previous generation’s standard of handling life’s challenges and painful episodes with quiet dignity. It allowed groups who seemingly had it made to become among the downtrodden, so they to could join in on the fight against the White power structure.

    Interesting. I’ve often wondered just when victim = hero became a theme — and an aspiration — in mainstream American culture. It was certainly already there in the early Oprah years, i.e. the 80s, but Donahue is a bit before my time. Some of this sense of the noble oppressed must go back to the 60s, with the civil rights era and the Vietnam war, but its spread into the mainstream population, i.e. ‘you too can be a victim — even though you’re a nice white suburban lady — and get lots of attention and adoration on national TV’ does seem to come later.

    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Donahue is a bit before my time
     
    Donahue was Rick Steeves without the incisive wit and manly flair.
  173. @Dave Pinsen
    There are downscale mainline Protestants too.

    There are downscale mainline Protestants too.

    We’re doing what we can to run the last ones out the door, from what I’ve seen.

  174. @Pat Hannagan
    Yes, of course there are White Protestants and non-White ones, the point is why the seemingly redundant use of White along with Anglo-Saxon?

    It's a tautology to say White Anglo-Saxon as there can only be White Anglo-Saxons. There are no other kind of Anglo-Saxons. White is being used for emphasis, whether it's a tautology or pleonasm I don't know but the redundant expression of the terms is being used for effect.

    There is more going on with the term and it's usage is not as perplexing as some are suggesting.

    On that point, I found an interesting article by Philip Weiss where the etymology of the term WASP is discussed: The Implosion of the WASPs–Er, White Protestants…

    Weiss quotes a correspondent, Paul Westman, that:

    "Baltzell published The Protestant Establishment in 1964. However, the first known appearance of the slur in print occurs in an article by a Jew, Andrew Hacker, "Liberal Democracy and Social Control," American Political Science Review 51 (1957): 1009-26 at 1010-1011."

    Weiss does not question whether it's true that Andrew Hacker is Jewish and accepts it at face value not even remarking on the assertion. It's interesting, if true, that the first written usage of the term WASP is by a Jew.

    Westman also goes on to note my second point of fascination:

    Robert Christopher deserves credit for one thing: despite enthusiastically cheering WASPs’ destruction, he does acknowledge that Baltzell’s thesis was fundamentally flawed, in that WASPs did not forcefully defend their elite status. On the contrary, they rather quickly and proactively surrendered their advantages to Jews and others. (Just to be clear, personally I regard this as a fact but not a virtue.) Years later, independently of Christopher, essayist Joseph Epstein arrived at the same conclusion. He termed the strange phenomenon "the Wasp self-divestment of power":

    "The Wasp old guard put up the white flag without a shot being fired. Suddenly bars began to drop: in formerly restricted neighborhoods, in previously elite country and city clubs, in once white-shoe bank, law, and investment firms. Once-snobbish institutions loosened up, opened up, disappeared. The closest thing to an aristocracy that America had known was now most prominently in evidence in the magazine ads of a small grey-haired Jewish designer named Ralph Lauren (ne Lifschitz). Perhaps the best analogy to the Wasp self-divestment of power is that of the British giving up their empire. Both may have felt that the need to do so was inevitable–and quite possibly it was–but each came away diminished, disliked, even a little despised for having done so. To this day in America, the Wasps are the one group about which-in a politically correct atmosphere–jokes can be made with impunity." –Joseph Epstein, "In a snob-free zone," Washington Monthly (June 2002).

    (Those Country Clubs again.)

    So, from a quick perusal of the subject it looks like the term WASP was first produced in print by a Jew, taken up by two seeming WASPS in Baltzell and Christopher, from whence it took on a life of its own.

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as "wealthy" whereas the cited quote Westman provides states "white". If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

    In summary, in answer to my own two points of fascination, 1) I think redundancy of White with Anglo-Saxon is for effect in the pejorative. 2) I don't understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.

    It's not as if the history of Britain is one of Christian piety, forgiveness 7 x 77 and a remorseless example of turning the other cheek, but something did happen during and post WWII to them that caused them to fold completely and transfer all that they had in the Old World and the New to another people deriving no benefit for themselves.

    I don’t understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.

    The WASPs themselves do not perceive it as a capitulation at all. In their minds they’re in the process of transforming wolves into dogs where the other is undeniably hostile, and otherwise freeing their minds to embrace the friend that has always been there. Of course they’re delusional, but that is usually what happens when humans confuse themselves with Gods.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    Ha, from my experience with Anglo descended Ozzies I think you're right. They seem to extract a perverse pride in the fact that as their ethnic ship is going down they remain stoically unaffected by proceedings, preferring to put on aloof disdain for any attachment whatsoever to the predicament of their less fortunate kin. In fact, it's quite often the Anglos who ruthlessly out the "racists" in our midst.

    As one of the commenters in the Weiss post says:

    Wasps shouldn't try aspire to victim status, and but perhaps more consciously recognize that at its best the Wasp establishment was capable of infinitely more wisdom than the more mixed current group.

    That's the spirit!
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    The WASPs themselves do not perceive it as a capitulation at all. In their minds they’re in the process of transforming wolves into dogs where the other is undeniably hostile, and otherwise freeing their minds to embrace the friend that has always been there. Of course they’re delusional, but that is usually what happens when humans confuse themselves with Gods.

     

    Exactly. The WASP capitulation comprises the vanguard of Christendom's broader devolution into heresy. If you think you can be the Savior, then you see your 'sacrifice' as Other-redeeming.
  175. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Weiner grew up during the emergence of the Donahue talk show, when pop psychology started to provide the leftist meme victim = hero, replacing the previous generation’s standard of handling life’s challenges and painful episodes with quiet dignity. It allowed groups who seemingly had it made to become among the downtrodden, so they to could join in on the fight against the White power structure.
     
    Interesting. I've often wondered just when victim = hero became a theme -- and an aspiration -- in mainstream American culture. It was certainly already there in the early Oprah years, i.e. the 80s, but Donahue is a bit before my time. Some of this sense of the noble oppressed must go back to the 60s, with the civil rights era and the Vietnam war, but its spread into the mainstream population, i.e. 'you too can be a victim -- even though you're a nice white suburban lady -- and get lots of attention and adoration on national TV' does seem to come later.

    Donahue is a bit before my time

    Donahue was Rick Steeves without the incisive wit and manly flair.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Rick Steeves -- remind me again why he's a television star.
  176. @D. K.
    ***

    At corporate firm Shidler, McBroom, Gates & Lucas (now K&L Gates), Berman became involved in his first class action from the plaintiff’s side. It was the Washington Public Power Supply System (WPPSS) case, a public works project that mismanaged the creation of two nuclear power facilities into a $2.4 billion boondoggle. “We sued all 88 towns and cities in the Northwest,” he says. “They were defendants. The underwriters were defendants and the city of Seattle was a defendant.” The case settled for $753 million in 1988, leaving Berman with a taste for class action. He looked around at other firms but few would touch him. “They said, ‘You’re like a lightning rod, suing everyone around here.’ Betts Patterson was the only firm that would hire me. They had a plaintiff’s practice that was floundering. They wanted someone to come in and fix it.”

    ***

    My very first assignment, as a newly minted Seattle lawyer, almost thirty years ago, was researching and drafting a portion of our firm's plaintiff brief against the Washington Public Power Supply System, on behalf of our client, U.S. Trust, which had bought a lot of WPPSS bonds, after what my supervising partner used to refer to as "a dog-and-pony show." As I recall, from half my life ago, WPPSS had planned to build five nuclear plants. It had started construction on two of them, at the point where its financing imploded, and the projects were mothballed.

    I’ve always heard that the biggest error leading to the WPPSS debacle was mostly a matter of bad math. That growth projections were premised on the notion that you could add unlimited capacity without this additional capacity affecting prices. Wha??? In other words, planners simply projected a vast increase in supply, factored in the then-current price for electricity, and that constituted their project analysis. That none of the participating cities, or bond purchasers, noticed this error boggles the mind (assuming the story is true).

    • Replies: @Ivy
    I have some hands-on experience in working out the WPPSS mess. To say that the participants were clueless and in way over their heads was an understatement. They projected 4.5% annual electricity load growth with a ruler on graph paper, "because that is what it has been". That was done notwithstanding looming big supply cost increases and, miraculously, retail price increases that would result in lower demand. Who knew?

    Elementary economics escaped them, so they had no chance against Merrill Lynch and other Wall Street whores that saw $200,000,000 bond issues (and fat fees) every several weeks.

    The WPPSS board, chaired by a well-meaning apple farmer, believed them and all 88 of the little municipalities and public utility districts went along "because everyone else is". They also picked several different reactor designs to avoid all eggs in one basket, so got no scale economies or effective competitive bidding. There wasn't leadership or accountability, but plenty of fallout and lawyer fees. The expression for them at that time was Legions of Pinstriped Pettifoggers.

    The WPPSS fiasco was not an isolated incident in public finance as it is repeated annually in defense procurement. The MIC have better publicists.

  177. @Desiderius

    Donahue is a bit before my time
     
    Donahue was Rick Steeves without the incisive wit and manly flair.

    Rick Steeves — remind me again why he’s a television star.

    • Replies: @Curle
    He smokes pot and knows where Italy is. This is what it takes to become a PBS phenom. Which, to be fair, puts him miles ahead of most Americans (the part about knowing where Italy is).
    , @OsRazor
    Rick Steeves is Mr. Rogers on downers--the go to guy for SWPL types in their search for European travel guides--you know places they can assure all their friends aren't really touristy--no Big Ben or Eifel Tower on his itinerary--but which offer little in adventure or discomfort or wonder. He's been a mainstay of public television for the last twenty-five years.

    I used to hand out his travel guides to former and current girl friends doing a semester in Europe. They always returned to campus deeply appreciative.

  178. @Desiderius

    Or kind of like if the first black President had been Richard Pryor or James Brown.
     
    I can say without hint of irony that either one of those men would have done better than the two black presidents we have in fact been inflicted with.

    James Brown’s Cabinet meetings would be awesome. There’d be disputes for decades over “what the President actually said”.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    Well, James Brown is dead, now, of course, and, thus, technically ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Of course, his former manager actually did run for the Democratic nomination for president, and still is treated as a king-maker, to some degree, among the Democrats' most loyal constituency. He has his own cable "news" show, now, to boot. Like his late mentor, he also makes a habit of not making his tax payments in a strictly kosher manner. As noted at the very end of Billy Wilder's "Some Like It Hot" (1959), however: "Well, nobody's perfect!"
  179. @john shade
    Steve Berman, a multi-millionaire class action lawyer, imagines that his teammate on junior varsity football in Highland Park, Illinois said he would kick Steve's ass every day. Probably because of anti-Semitism.


    http://www.superlawyers.com/washington/article/Keep-It-Simple-Stupid/89fccc82-840a-4a05-8b25-3e8dc951a1c8.html

    “I was playing [football], second-string quarterback, going into my junior year,” he says. “I’m calling plays in the very first scrimmage. There’s a guy across the way. He just hated me. I think it was anti-Semitic. He says, ‘Berman, I’m going to fucking kick your ass every day.’ He was an animal. All of a sudden I realized, I’m only 5’10”, and I’m not going to get any bigger. This guy is going to kill me. So I go, ‘Timeout.’ I hand the helmet to the coach, take off my pads, run over to the soccer field. I tell the coach there, ‘I want to play soccer.’”

    Berman was the attorney representing the State of Washington in the so-called Tobacco Settlement, a deal that was poorly reported on at the time and that constitutes one of the greatest highjackings of the political process in modern memory. The total ‘settlement’, not really a settlement, but an agreement to impose a tax by various state legislatures on competitors of certain major tobacco brands euphemistically called an ‘escrow account’, was truly a world class swindle and raised more than $206 million from nascent competitors.

    The swindle worked like this. Berman and a crowd of other high profile plaintiff’s attorneys across the US conceived of seeking compensation from tobacco companies for costs related to medicare expenses for smokers. Getting nowhere with this approach, Berman and company shifted gears and devised a ‘settlement’ with big tobacco that consisted of state legislatures forcing big tobacco to pay a penalty ostensibly for medicare fraud in exchange for restrictions on advertising (agreeing to limit their first amendment rights) and participating state legislatures agreeing to create ‘escrow’ funds that their non-targeted (and non-liable) competitors would have to pay into based on market share. These ‘escrow’ funds were to represent anticipated (ANTICIPATED) bad actions by competitors who couldn’t otherwise be penalized in the way imagined for big tobacco. Imagine by way of analogy that you’ve committed consumer fraud but you will only agree to settle and pay money if the state legislature adopts legislation imposing the same penalty on your non-consumer fraud committing competitors. It was a melange of bad ideas, monopoly re-inforcment, deprivation of constitutional rights, etc. all packaged as reform. And, the biggest kicker being that the state legislature did all the work but attorneys like Berman walked away with multi-million dollar paydays.

    The whole scam was far too complicated for a press corps uninterested in things that didn’t advance the narrative, so information stayed contained. I’m still waiting for someone to write the definitive account.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    I'm also waiting for the definitive account.

    And that would require much about Dickie Scruggs, too. Berman seems to have made a lot of money but Scruggs is in a class by himself.
  180. @Desiderius

    I don’t understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.
     
    The WASPs themselves do not perceive it as a capitulation at all. In their minds they're in the process of transforming wolves into dogs where the other is undeniably hostile, and otherwise freeing their minds to embrace the friend that has always been there. Of course they're delusional, but that is usually what happens when humans confuse themselves with Gods.

    Ha, from my experience with Anglo descended Ozzies I think you’re right. They seem to extract a perverse pride in the fact that as their ethnic ship is going down they remain stoically unaffected by proceedings, preferring to put on aloof disdain for any attachment whatsoever to the predicament of their less fortunate kin. In fact, it’s quite often the Anglos who ruthlessly out the “racists” in our midst.

    As one of the commenters in the Weiss post says:

    Wasps shouldn’t try aspire to victim status, and but perhaps more consciously recognize that at its best the Wasp establishment was capable of infinitely more wisdom than the more mixed current group.

    That’s the spirit!

  181. @Steve Sailer
    Rick Steeves -- remind me again why he's a television star.

    He smokes pot and knows where Italy is. This is what it takes to become a PBS phenom. Which, to be fair, puts him miles ahead of most Americans (the part about knowing where Italy is).

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    I thought it was because he was overweight and unthreatening.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    …miles ahead of most Americans (the part about knowing where Italy is).
     
    Shakespeare thought Milan was on the sea. We're in good company!
  182. Ivy says:
    @Curle
    I've always heard that the biggest error leading to the WPPSS debacle was mostly a matter of bad math. That growth projections were premised on the notion that you could add unlimited capacity without this additional capacity affecting prices. Wha??? In other words, planners simply projected a vast increase in supply, factored in the then-current price for electricity, and that constituted their project analysis. That none of the participating cities, or bond purchasers, noticed this error boggles the mind (assuming the story is true).

    I have some hands-on experience in working out the WPPSS mess. To say that the participants were clueless and in way over their heads was an understatement. They projected 4.5% annual electricity load growth with a ruler on graph paper, “because that is what it has been”. That was done notwithstanding looming big supply cost increases and, miraculously, retail price increases that would result in lower demand. Who knew?

    Elementary economics escaped them, so they had no chance against Merrill Lynch and other Wall Street whores that saw $200,000,000 bond issues (and fat fees) every several weeks.

    The WPPSS board, chaired by a well-meaning apple farmer, believed them and all 88 of the little municipalities and public utility districts went along “because everyone else is”. They also picked several different reactor designs to avoid all eggs in one basket, so got no scale economies or effective competitive bidding. There wasn’t leadership or accountability, but plenty of fallout and lawyer fees. The expression for them at that time was Legions of Pinstriped Pettifoggers.

    The WPPSS fiasco was not an isolated incident in public finance as it is repeated annually in defense procurement. The MIC have better publicists.

  183. @Pat Hannagan
    Yes, of course there are White Protestants and non-White ones, the point is why the seemingly redundant use of White along with Anglo-Saxon?

    It's a tautology to say White Anglo-Saxon as there can only be White Anglo-Saxons. There are no other kind of Anglo-Saxons. White is being used for emphasis, whether it's a tautology or pleonasm I don't know but the redundant expression of the terms is being used for effect.

    There is more going on with the term and it's usage is not as perplexing as some are suggesting.

    On that point, I found an interesting article by Philip Weiss where the etymology of the term WASP is discussed: The Implosion of the WASPs–Er, White Protestants…

    Weiss quotes a correspondent, Paul Westman, that:

    "Baltzell published The Protestant Establishment in 1964. However, the first known appearance of the slur in print occurs in an article by a Jew, Andrew Hacker, "Liberal Democracy and Social Control," American Political Science Review 51 (1957): 1009-26 at 1010-1011."

    Weiss does not question whether it's true that Andrew Hacker is Jewish and accepts it at face value not even remarking on the assertion. It's interesting, if true, that the first written usage of the term WASP is by a Jew.

    Westman also goes on to note my second point of fascination:

    Robert Christopher deserves credit for one thing: despite enthusiastically cheering WASPs’ destruction, he does acknowledge that Baltzell’s thesis was fundamentally flawed, in that WASPs did not forcefully defend their elite status. On the contrary, they rather quickly and proactively surrendered their advantages to Jews and others. (Just to be clear, personally I regard this as a fact but not a virtue.) Years later, independently of Christopher, essayist Joseph Epstein arrived at the same conclusion. He termed the strange phenomenon "the Wasp self-divestment of power":

    "The Wasp old guard put up the white flag without a shot being fired. Suddenly bars began to drop: in formerly restricted neighborhoods, in previously elite country and city clubs, in once white-shoe bank, law, and investment firms. Once-snobbish institutions loosened up, opened up, disappeared. The closest thing to an aristocracy that America had known was now most prominently in evidence in the magazine ads of a small grey-haired Jewish designer named Ralph Lauren (ne Lifschitz). Perhaps the best analogy to the Wasp self-divestment of power is that of the British giving up their empire. Both may have felt that the need to do so was inevitable–and quite possibly it was–but each came away diminished, disliked, even a little despised for having done so. To this day in America, the Wasps are the one group about which-in a politically correct atmosphere–jokes can be made with impunity." –Joseph Epstein, "In a snob-free zone," Washington Monthly (June 2002).

    (Those Country Clubs again.)

    So, from a quick perusal of the subject it looks like the term WASP was first produced in print by a Jew, taken up by two seeming WASPS in Baltzell and Christopher, from whence it took on a life of its own.

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as "wealthy" whereas the cited quote Westman provides states "white". If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

    In summary, in answer to my own two points of fascination, 1) I think redundancy of White with Anglo-Saxon is for effect in the pejorative. 2) I don't understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.

    It's not as if the history of Britain is one of Christian piety, forgiveness 7 x 77 and a remorseless example of turning the other cheek, but something did happen during and post WWII to them that caused them to fold completely and transfer all that they had in the Old World and the New to another people deriving no benefit for themselves.

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as “wealthy” whereas the cited quote Westman provides states “white”. If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

    I had a look at the article; Hacker defines WASPs as follows:

    First of all, they are ‘WASPs’–in the cocktail party jargon of the sociologists. That is, they are white, they are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and they are Protestant (and disproportionately Episcopalian). To their Waspishness should be added the tendency to be located on the Eastern Seaboard or around San Francisco, to be prep school and Ivy League educated, and to be possessed of inherited wealth.

    So ‘white’, clearly.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    Excellent! Thanks, Last Real Calvinist. Wikipedia has misquoted the citation. Makes one wonder what ethnicity the cocktail party sociologists were who used the term WASP.

    It would be valuable if it could be confirmed whether Andrew Hacker is Jewish.
  184. […] the series arced towards its conclusion, showrunner Matt Weiner‘s ethnocentrism (and its polemics against WASP culture) became more and more evident and […]

  185. @Desiderius

    I don’t understand what drove, and drives still, the Anglo-Saxon urge to capitulate what they had to another tribe that shows them mostly scorn, derision and contempt.
     
    The WASPs themselves do not perceive it as a capitulation at all. In their minds they're in the process of transforming wolves into dogs where the other is undeniably hostile, and otherwise freeing their minds to embrace the friend that has always been there. Of course they're delusional, but that is usually what happens when humans confuse themselves with Gods.

    The WASPs themselves do not perceive it as a capitulation at all. In their minds they’re in the process of transforming wolves into dogs where the other is undeniably hostile, and otherwise freeing their minds to embrace the friend that has always been there. Of course they’re delusional, but that is usually what happens when humans confuse themselves with Gods.

    Exactly. The WASP capitulation comprises the vanguard of Christendom’s broader devolution into heresy. If you think you can be the Savior, then you see your ‘sacrifice’ as Other-redeeming.

  186. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @sutton
    Steve,

    Please explore how the Tribe came to Europa, and didn't stay/ explore/build out the traditional Jewish archipelago of communities in the Arab middle east and Persia.

    Like Luther said,no one invited them to Europe(his famous antidentite diatribes came after reading the insults of Jesus Christ in the taunts of the talmud).

    You’ve never heard of the Jewish revolts against Roman rule or the actions of the Roman emperors Vespasian, Titus and Hadrian? Trade brought Jews to southern Europe before the Jewish revolts, but the suppression of the revolts brought many more. In the Carolingian period, it was not unheard of for a high ranking prelate to invite Jews to settle in a town to promote trade and to benefit from their taxation. For instance, see Bishop Rudiger of Speyer’s note written in 1084.

  187. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I wonder if the goy actors know they're but bit players in some nasty little jew's neurotic fantasy.

    That’s all of Hollywood you’re talking about there.

  188. @Steve Sailer
    Rick Steeves -- remind me again why he's a television star.

    Rick Steeves is Mr. Rogers on downers–the go to guy for SWPL types in their search for European travel guides–you know places they can assure all their friends aren’t really touristy–no Big Ben or Eifel Tower on his itinerary–but which offer little in adventure or discomfort or wonder. He’s been a mainstay of public television for the last twenty-five years.

    I used to hand out his travel guides to former and current girl friends doing a semester in Europe. They always returned to campus deeply appreciative.

  189. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Noteworthy is that the Wikipedia citation of Hacker has the W as “wealthy” whereas the cited quote Westman provides states “white”. If anyone has a JSTOR account it would be appreciated if they could read the original article by Hacker here and determine which is correct.

     

    I had a look at the article; Hacker defines WASPs as follows:

    First of all, they are 'WASPs'--in the cocktail party jargon of the sociologists. That is, they are white, they are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and they are Protestant (and disproportionately Episcopalian). To their Waspishness should be added the tendency to be located on the Eastern Seaboard or around San Francisco, to be prep school and Ivy League educated, and to be possessed of inherited wealth.

     

    So 'white', clearly.

    Excellent! Thanks, Last Real Calvinist. Wikipedia has misquoted the citation. Makes one wonder what ethnicity the cocktail party sociologists were who used the term WASP.

    It would be valuable if it could be confirmed whether Andrew Hacker is Jewish.

    • Replies: @Pat Hannagan
    Took me a while to find any sort of confirmation but Andrew Hacker's bio at encyclopedia.com lists his religion as Jewish.

    His "domestic partner" is Claudia Dreifus

    Hacker had his official sendoff from Queen's College in 2010 where "All alumni and Dr. Hacker's former students are invited to attend this special reception! c***tails and hors d'oeuvres."

    Cocktail parties look to be pretty important gatherings for sociologists now that the country clubs aren't exclusive.
  190. @Steve Sailer
    Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like "The Departed" and "The Town." "The General" is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to

    “Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like “The Departed” and “The Town.” “The General” is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to.”

    Films about Italian gangsters far outnumber films about Irish gangsters. Here is a list of films that feature Italian gangsters.

    1.The Godfather
    2.The Godfather Part 2
    3.The Godfather Part 3
    4.Gotti
    5.Killing Them Softly
    6.The Untouchables
    7.Mean Streets
    8.True Romance
    9.Casino
    10.The Family
    11.My Blue Heaven
    12.The Sicilian
    13.The Iceman
    14.Goodfellas
    15.Donnie Brasco
    16.Made Men
    17.Mickey Blue Eyes
    18.This Thing Of Ours
    19.The Brotherhood
    20.Analyze That
    21.Analyze This
    22.The Freshman
    23.The Mafia Only Kills In Summer
    24.Nicky Deuce
    25.Batman Begins
    26.The Dark Knight
    27.In The Mix
    28.Crazy Joe
    29.The Revenge Of Al Capone
    30.A Bronx Tale
    31.Bugsy
    32.American Hustle
    33.Brooklyn Rules

  191. @Pat Hannagan
    Excellent! Thanks, Last Real Calvinist. Wikipedia has misquoted the citation. Makes one wonder what ethnicity the cocktail party sociologists were who used the term WASP.

    It would be valuable if it could be confirmed whether Andrew Hacker is Jewish.

    Took me a while to find any sort of confirmation but Andrew Hacker’s bio at encyclopedia.com lists his religion as Jewish.

    His “domestic partner” is Claudia Dreifus

    Hacker had his official sendoff from Queen’s College in 2010 where “All alumni and Dr. Hacker’s former students are invited to attend this special reception! c***tails and hors d’oeuvres.”

    Cocktail parties look to be pretty important gatherings for sociologists now that the country clubs aren’t exclusive.

  192. @Steve Sailer
    Boston Irish gangsters have made for good movies like "The Departed" and "The Town." "The General" is a very entertaining Dublin gangster comedy biopic. Italian-American filmmakers in the 1970s were given confidence and impetus by all the popular Italian import movies from Bicycle Thief to

    “Miller’s Crossing” starring a tommy gun toting Albert Finney and Gabriel Byrne. After that Irish gangster movie, is there really a need for another one?

    Interestingly, the movie is about how an old line, politically connected, Irish mob boss (Finney) is being threatened by the more aggressive Italian and Jewish upstarts. One of the Coen Brothers better films, pay special attention to Byrne’s fedora, the allusions to “The Third Man” and the homosexual subtexts. As depicted in “Miller’s Crossing” and in real life, Irish mobsters were more prominent in the James Cagney era to be replaced by less assimilated, hungrier, ethnic mobsters.

    In the 1932 film “Scarface”, Tony Comante kills the Chicago South Side Irish mob boss “Big” Louis Costillo and then declares war on the North Side Irish mob boss O’Hara. This was loosely based on the events surrounding the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre when Al Capone’s South Side Italian Mob massacred mobsters associated with North Side Irish mob boss “Bugs” Moran.

    In the 1983 “Scarface”, Cuban immigrant, Tony Montana, rises to prominence after he murders the established, Cuban Jewish (Jewbano?) mob boss, Frank Lopez, and his corrupt, Jewish cop enforcer Mel Bernstein.

    I think this scene won the Oscar for Worst 1980’s Modern Art Collection.

    Alas, Tony decided to take on the Columbians, which we all know, is never a good idea. Interestingly, after Tony took out the Miami Jewish mobsters, he hired “El Ultimo” WASP banker in all of gangster cinema, “Jerry the Banker,” played by Dennis Holahan, who also had a one time role on “The White Shadow” television series.

    http://pyxurz.blogspot.com/2011/10/scarface-page-4-of-6.html

    Roger Sterling?
    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3712976384/nm0389971?ref_=nm_phs_md_2

    Seems like ethnic usurpation is pretty much par for the course in the American gangster genre. I guess Weiner is just doing it with passive aggression and a better fashion sense with his Sixties soap opera. Personally, I prefer my ethnic antagonisms resolved through garish suits, thick urban accents and hot lead.

    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    It's funny that several of the most extreme WN commentators such as Harold Covington have called "Miller's Crossing" one of the very, very few truly anti-Semitic films ever made in Hollywood. I found it simply surreal, sort of like "Harold and Maude" or "Union City" with Tommy guns.
  193. @Rob McX
    James Brown's Cabinet meetings would be awesome. There'd be disputes for decades over "what the President actually said".

    Well, James Brown is dead, now, of course, and, thus, technically ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Of course, his former manager actually did run for the Democratic nomination for president, and still is treated as a king-maker, to some degree, among the Democrats’ most loyal constituency. He has his own cable “news” show, now, to boot. Like his late mentor, he also makes a habit of not making his tax payments in a strictly kosher manner. As noted at the very end of Billy Wilder’s “Some Like It Hot” (1959), however: “Well, nobody’s perfect!”

  194. @Clifford Brown
    "Miller's Crossing" starring a tommy gun toting Albert Finney and Gabriel Byrne. After that Irish gangster movie, is there really a need for another one?

    Interestingly, the movie is about how an old line, politically connected, Irish mob boss (Finney) is being threatened by the more aggressive Italian and Jewish upstarts. One of the Coen Brothers better films, pay special attention to Byrne's fedora, the allusions to "The Third Man" and the homosexual subtexts. As depicted in "Miller's Crossing" and in real life, Irish mobsters were more prominent in the James Cagney era to be replaced by less assimilated, hungrier, ethnic mobsters.

    In the 1932 film "Scarface", Tony Comante kills the Chicago South Side Irish mob boss "Big" Louis Costillo and then declares war on the North Side Irish mob boss O'Hara. This was loosely based on the events surrounding the St. Valentine's Day Massacre when Al Capone's South Side Italian Mob massacred mobsters associated with North Side Irish mob boss "Bugs" Moran.

    In the 1983 "Scarface", Cuban immigrant, Tony Montana, rises to prominence after he murders the established, Cuban Jewish (Jewbano?) mob boss, Frank Lopez, and his corrupt, Jewish cop enforcer Mel Bernstein.

    I think this scene won the Oscar for Worst 1980's Modern Art Collection.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=958GzzqgWnw

    Alas, Tony decided to take on the Columbians, which we all know, is never a good idea. Interestingly, after Tony took out the Miami Jewish mobsters, he hired "El Ultimo" WASP banker in all of gangster cinema, "Jerry the Banker," played by Dennis Holahan, who also had a one time role on "The White Shadow" television series.

    http://pyxurz.blogspot.com/2011/10/scarface-page-4-of-6.html

    Roger Sterling?
    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3712976384/nm0389971?ref_=nm_phs_md_2

    Seems like ethnic usurpation is pretty much par for the course in the American gangster genre. I guess Weiner is just doing it with passive aggression and a better fashion sense with his Sixties soap opera. Personally, I prefer my ethnic antagonisms resolved through garish suits, thick urban accents and hot lead.

    It’s funny that several of the most extreme WN commentators such as Harold Covington have called “Miller’s Crossing” one of the very, very few truly anti-Semitic films ever made in Hollywood. I found it simply surreal, sort of like “Harold and Maude” or “Union City” with Tommy guns.

    • Replies: @OsRazor
    The Coen Brothers are some of the only filmmakers permitted (and with the balls) to expose and revel in some of the peculiar personality and psychological traits of their fellow tribe members. If you think Miller's Crossing is anti-Semitic, try Barton Fink. There's absolutely nothing subtle about it.
    , @anon
    It's only anti if you think running round with guns getting shot at is better than getting the guys with guns to shoot each other.

    North Europeans being more recently barbarian think taking their shots is more honorable - and personally I agree with that as I'm from that same background - but if you step out of that frame of mind and look at it from the point of view of "how do we get what we want without any risk to us?" then Miller's Crossing isn't what MRB people think it is (and Byrne does look very cool in that hat).

    Good fillum imo.

  195. @OsRazor

    We never saw Betty die on screen. Also a fondness for blue eyed blonde Northern European chicks is not limited to Jewish guys. I am Italian and my first big childhood crush on an actress was Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.
     
    The last several episodes were devoted to tying up loose ends and showing the viewer what would become of the characters. Giving Betty Draper late stage terminal lung cancer (which she refuses to treat or intervene against and which her doctors says gives her only a few months left) tells us all we need to know about BD long-term, no? She's dead, right? In her late 30s, prime of her life, just as she was pursuing her dreams of becoming a psychologist or some such. Can we agree he killed her off? Did we need a zombie to disembowel her circa The Walking Dead? Would that have satisfied you?

    It would have been more believable if she'd been murdered/raped by the creepy neighbor boy character/stalker played by Weiner's son, but instead Weiner chose to give her the most painful and awful departure possible. He was relentless--the last shot of her is sitting cadaver like smoking a cigarette seated at her kitchen table. The ice princess with no soul or feeling till the end--wasn't that the point of the shot? Could it have been more obvious?

    Weiner had contempt for her, thoroughly and utterly, from the very start--she fit every stereotype of the unfeeling awful WASPy girl, without any redeeming qualities. Shallow, greedy, mean and fake. It seemed rather obvious to me that Weiner took a lot of pleasure in portraying her with as little sympathy as possible.

    And, of course, to your second point, most normal heterosexual men of all races, creeds, etc., are interested in Blondes with Blue Eyes--I don't need to get into the reasons why, but they do. I applaud you for lusting after Marcia Brady--but did you want her humiliated and despised? Were you anxious to see her put down several pegs from her pedestal of loveliness? Did you want to expose her for being a miserable creature of no substance or value? Weiner did all those things to BD with such glee one can't help but wonder why. Or maybe it was all just coincidence.

    Exactly. All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place.

    With Jewish and Arab men, there is something sick going on. Feelings personal sexual inferiority, disgust with their own women, resentment, rage and sadism. The women have their own version of this too.

    This psychology drives behavior.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.
     
    "Marcia".

    She was white. Mom was married. They could spell.
    , @Brutusale
    I was too busy lusting after Elly Mae Clampett, Emma Peel, Samantha Stevens and Jeanie to care much about Marcia Brady!

    But you're right about the rest. My girlfriend was a disco queen back in the Seventies, and there were clubs she and her friends stayed away from because of the high percentage of creepy, gropey Middle Easterners. The biggest disco in Boston back then was right across Comm Ave, from its most famous punk club, The Rat, where I hung out, and it seemed that the city's entire population of dark, swarthy men in gold chains was out trolling for blondes at the disco.
    , @Peter Akuleyev

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place
     
    Yeah, sorry to say you are completely wrong about that. Italian men idolize and lust after blonde Northern European women just like Jewish men do. In high school my friends used to keep score based on the girls they scored with during summer vacation, Swedes were worth the most points, followed by Germans. Italian men also complain incessantly about how Italian women are frigid ball busters. Italian American men seem more clan oriented and likely to marry "in group", but back in the old country, at least north of Rome, no Italian man wants an Italian wife. Polish and Ukrainian wives are very popular. But more exotic flavors too - one of my best friends is married to a British woman of Phillippine ancestry, a business partner has a Costa Rican wife. In my social and business circles I would guess well under 50% of the Italian men have Italian wives/girlfriends. It is a mystery to me how Italy will survive another century as a coherent civilization.
  196. @Lackawanna
    Because WASP's were the elite, those who want to be the elite target them. The Nazi's didn't direct a lot of hostilely to Australian Aborigines, but to Jews and Russians, who Germans had already had conflicts with and who they were most afraid of.

    Because Anglo White Protestants kiss their butts so much and have no internal solidarity. They are the perfect victims. Their sycophancy breeds contempt and their pathological individualism makes them easy to knock over.

    It's also jealousy.

    Anti-white racism is different from other kinds of racism. It's hate and envy and wanting to be us mixed up. Racism from say, whites directed at blacks or between Arabs and Jews is mostly just not wanting to be around people that are different. Weiner wants to be a WASP too, he is just confused about it. That's where the hate comes. He hates that he wants to be like WASP's rather than like his ancestors in the Shtetl. So he hates the WASP's for making him have these feelings of inferiority and envy.

    If Weiner didn't want to be a WASP, he would become a Hasid or move to Israel.

    Racism from say, whites directed at blacks or between Arabs and Jews is mostly just not wanting to be around people that are different.

    Blacks and Jews will tell you this, but it’s your choice if you believe it.

  197. @Former Darfur
    It's funny that several of the most extreme WN commentators such as Harold Covington have called "Miller's Crossing" one of the very, very few truly anti-Semitic films ever made in Hollywood. I found it simply surreal, sort of like "Harold and Maude" or "Union City" with Tommy guns.

    The Coen Brothers are some of the only filmmakers permitted (and with the balls) to expose and revel in some of the peculiar personality and psychological traits of their fellow tribe members. If you think Miller’s Crossing is anti-Semitic, try Barton Fink. There’s absolutely nothing subtle about it.

  198. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Former Darfur
    It's funny that several of the most extreme WN commentators such as Harold Covington have called "Miller's Crossing" one of the very, very few truly anti-Semitic films ever made in Hollywood. I found it simply surreal, sort of like "Harold and Maude" or "Union City" with Tommy guns.

    It’s only anti if you think running round with guns getting shot at is better than getting the guys with guns to shoot each other.

    North Europeans being more recently barbarian think taking their shots is more honorable – and personally I agree with that as I’m from that same background – but if you step out of that frame of mind and look at it from the point of view of “how do we get what we want without any risk to us?” then Miller’s Crossing isn’t what MRB people think it is (and Byrne does look very cool in that hat).

    Good fillum imo.

  199. Hollywood’s Irish stereotype is cops so Irish gangster movies spoil the stereotype and I assume stereotypes have a high value in movies cos they reduce exposition time.

  200. @Dave
    Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants? Somebody clue me in. Is it taught in the home? Is this guy--Weiner--an anomaly and not reflective of the Jewish community as a whole?

    “Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants?”

    That’s their identity. Kinda like how Canadians often identify themselves as other-than-Americans.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Don't worry Jake, Canada seems to have given up on even that. Canadian media outlets and cultural institutions pray five times a day facing Manhattan now just like everyone else.
  201. @Lackawanna
    Exactly. All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place.

    With Jewish and Arab men, there is something sick going on. Feelings personal sexual inferiority, disgust with their own women, resentment, rage and sadism. The women have their own version of this too.

    This psychology drives behavior.

    All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.

    “Marcia”.

    She was white. Mom was married. They could spell.

  202. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Why do Jewish people have such an aversion to Anglo White Protestants?"

    That's their identity. Kinda like how Canadians often identify themselves as other-than-Americans.

    Don’t worry Jake, Canada seems to have given up on even that. Canadian media outlets and cultural institutions pray five times a day facing Manhattan now just like everyone else.

  203. @Curle
    He smokes pot and knows where Italy is. This is what it takes to become a PBS phenom. Which, to be fair, puts him miles ahead of most Americans (the part about knowing where Italy is).

    I thought it was because he was overweight and unthreatening.

  204. @Curle
    Berman was the attorney representing the State of Washington in the so-called Tobacco Settlement, a deal that was poorly reported on at the time and that constitutes one of the greatest highjackings of the political process in modern memory. The total 'settlement', not really a settlement, but an agreement to impose a tax by various state legislatures on competitors of certain major tobacco brands euphemistically called an 'escrow account', was truly a world class swindle and raised more than $206 million from nascent competitors.

    The swindle worked like this. Berman and a crowd of other high profile plaintiff's attorneys across the US conceived of seeking compensation from tobacco companies for costs related to medicare expenses for smokers. Getting nowhere with this approach, Berman and company shifted gears and devised a 'settlement' with big tobacco that consisted of state legislatures forcing big tobacco to pay a penalty ostensibly for medicare fraud in exchange for restrictions on advertising (agreeing to limit their first amendment rights) and participating state legislatures agreeing to create 'escrow' funds that their non-targeted (and non-liable) competitors would have to pay into based on market share. These 'escrow' funds were to represent anticipated (ANTICIPATED) bad actions by competitors who couldn't otherwise be penalized in the way imagined for big tobacco. Imagine by way of analogy that you've committed consumer fraud but you will only agree to settle and pay money if the state legislature adopts legislation imposing the same penalty on your non-consumer fraud committing competitors. It was a melange of bad ideas, monopoly re-inforcment, deprivation of constitutional rights, etc. all packaged as reform. And, the biggest kicker being that the state legislature did all the work but attorneys like Berman walked away with multi-million dollar paydays.

    The whole scam was far too complicated for a press corps uninterested in things that didn't advance the narrative, so information stayed contained. I'm still waiting for someone to write the definitive account.

    I’m also waiting for the definitive account.

    And that would require much about Dickie Scruggs, too. Berman seems to have made a lot of money but Scruggs is in a class by himself.

  205. @Lackawanna
    Exactly. All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place.

    With Jewish and Arab men, there is something sick going on. Feelings personal sexual inferiority, disgust with their own women, resentment, rage and sadism. The women have their own version of this too.

    This psychology drives behavior.

    I was too busy lusting after Elly Mae Clampett, Emma Peel, Samantha Stevens and Jeanie to care much about Marcia Brady!

    But you’re right about the rest. My girlfriend was a disco queen back in the Seventies, and there were clubs she and her friends stayed away from because of the high percentage of creepy, gropey Middle Easterners. The biggest disco in Boston back then was right across Comm Ave, from its most famous punk club, The Rat, where I hung out, and it seemed that the city’s entire population of dark, swarthy men in gold chains was out trolling for blondes at the disco.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    American Ashkenazi Jews are far less enamored of gold chains than Arabs or other direct transplants from the Middle East.
  206. @Brutusale
    I was too busy lusting after Elly Mae Clampett, Emma Peel, Samantha Stevens and Jeanie to care much about Marcia Brady!

    But you're right about the rest. My girlfriend was a disco queen back in the Seventies, and there were clubs she and her friends stayed away from because of the high percentage of creepy, gropey Middle Easterners. The biggest disco in Boston back then was right across Comm Ave, from its most famous punk club, The Rat, where I hung out, and it seemed that the city's entire population of dark, swarthy men in gold chains was out trolling for blondes at the disco.

    American Ashkenazi Jews are far less enamored of gold chains than Arabs or other direct transplants from the Middle East.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Which is why I identified them as "creepy, gropey Middle Easterners". And American Ashkenazi Jewish men definitely have the creepy, gropey part down pat.
  207. @Curle
    He smokes pot and knows where Italy is. This is what it takes to become a PBS phenom. Which, to be fair, puts him miles ahead of most Americans (the part about knowing where Italy is).

    …miles ahead of most Americans (the part about knowing where Italy is).

    Shakespeare thought Milan was on the sea. We’re in good company!

  208. @Anonymous
    American Ashkenazi Jews are far less enamored of gold chains than Arabs or other direct transplants from the Middle East.

    Which is why I identified them as “creepy, gropey Middle Easterners”. And American Ashkenazi Jewish men definitely have the creepy, gropey part down pat.

  209. @Lackawanna
    Exactly. All heterosexual men of a certain age lusted for Marsha Brady.

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place.

    With Jewish and Arab men, there is something sick going on. Feelings personal sexual inferiority, disgust with their own women, resentment, rage and sadism. The women have their own version of this too.

    This psychology drives behavior.

    Italians do not have any creepy sexual obsession with Northern Europeans like Jews and Arabs have. They like their own women and men just fine for the most part. Italian men and women are seen as sexually desirable by all. They are winners in the sexual market place

    Yeah, sorry to say you are completely wrong about that. Italian men idolize and lust after blonde Northern European women just like Jewish men do. In high school my friends used to keep score based on the girls they scored with during summer vacation, Swedes were worth the most points, followed by Germans. Italian men also complain incessantly about how Italian women are frigid ball busters. Italian American men seem more clan oriented and likely to marry “in group”, but back in the old country, at least north of Rome, no Italian man wants an Italian wife. Polish and Ukrainian wives are very popular. But more exotic flavors too – one of my best friends is married to a British woman of Phillippine ancestry, a business partner has a Costa Rican wife. In my social and business circles I would guess well under 50% of the Italian men have Italian wives/girlfriends. It is a mystery to me how Italy will survive another century as a coherent civilization.

  210. […] To me, Weiner’s whole schtick, repeated in this and in many other interviews, about how “boo-fucking-hoo, it was so hard to be a rich Jewish kid growing […]

  211. […] when the young lady from The Atlantic reads Matthew Weiner, creator of Mad Men, going on and on in interviews about how he could tell there were anti-Semites […]

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