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Masha Gessen in the New Yorker on White Jurors' Bias Against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's Looks
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Masha Gessen

At The New Yorker, former Our Woman in Moscow Masha Gessen, Establishment spokesperson for turning World War G into World War 3, worries about whether Caucasian jurors in Boston will be biased against the surviving Bomb Brother for being Caucasian:

What Will Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s Jury Look Like?
BY MASHA GESSEN

… Very few of the twelve hundred prospective jurors resemble Tsarnaev. Almost all of them are older than the defendant, who is twenty-one; he was nineteen when he was charged with carrying out the Boston Marathon bombings, which killed three people, and having taken part in the murder of an M.I.T. police officer. The majority of them are white. While Tsarnaev may look white, he grew up Muslim in Boston—his family immigrated to the U.S. in 2002. Before that, he lived in Kyrgyzstan and Russia, where he was considered “black.” (The N.Y.U. professor Eliot Borenstein explains the phenomenon of that perception very well.).

Chicks – even Masha Gessen – dig Chechens.

Professor Borenstein recounts how when he visits Moscow he is profiled by the cops as a possible Chechen.

And what have Chechens ever done to attract attention?

I mean, besides the things that astounded Pushkin, Lermontov, Tolstoy, and Solzhenitsyn?

And maybe ritually murdering those three dope dealers in Waltham to commemorate the tenth anniversary of 9/11.

And getting shot dead during an FBI interview in Florida?

By the way, Borenstein explains that until very recently, when Russians used the word “black,” they were referring to hair color not skin color.

Obviously, historical discrimination in Moscow has kept everybody from the Caucasus or south of the Caucasus from ever ascending high in Moscow’s White Male Power Structure.

Gessen goes on:

Another black victim of whites

None of Dzhokhar’s closest friends at college, at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, was white.

But most of the tax dollars paying for his dope-clouded education came from whitey whites.

Most of the government’s witnesses are likely to be F.B.I. agents and police officers; the defense will probably marshal friends, neighbors, family members, and experts, who will testify to Tsarnaev’s difficult childhood

Never forget that sometimes Dzhokhar was so broke that more than once he had to smoke some pretty harsh weed for several days straight before he could get back on the primo stuff.

I’m black?

Think of it this way:

If Dzhokhar’s Uncle Ruslan hadn’t once been the son-in-law of the former CIA station chief in Kabul, Graham E. Fuller, then the Bomb Brothers might not even have gotten asylum in America.

And then where would we be?

I should probably mention Fuller pulling some strings to get Imam Gulen into the Poconos to space things out for more pictures.

and inability to stand up to his brother.

That notoriously brilliant Machiavel, Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

You can see him plotting already in this extremely 1980s family photo, along with Robert De Pacino, Joan Jettski, and Mahamad Harmon.

Gessen, formerly the United States government’s chief propagandist in Russian, goes on:

Many of the potential jurors will likely admit that they are inclined to believe the officers over the civilians.

About what?

Hey, we’re black, too!

Another line of the defense’s questioning will attempt to single out people who strongly identify with the victims of the bombing, even though they do not know any of them personally (a personal connection would disqualify them automatically). The defense team has argued repeatedly the sense of communal injury in Massachusetts and particularly in Boston is so strong that Tsarnaev cannot get a fair trial here, just as it was once judged impossible for Timothy McVeigh to get a fair trial in Oklahoma. Judge O’Toole and an appeals court have rejected these claims.

My shades are black.

This means that the eighteen jurors who are eventually seated will face the difficult, if not impossible, task of separating their duty of representing the community as jurors from the outrage they may feel as members of a community that was attacked, by proxy, when the bombs went off at the Boston Marathon. The prosecution and, likely, its witnesses will repeatedly stress this sense of collective injury. Tsarnaev is accused of attacking America, and he may believe he did. The government will, in effect, ask the jury over and over again, “Are you with us or against us?”

Or maybe the government will ask the jurors if the Bomb Brothers murdered people.

But to Gessen, as to Lenin, the real question is always: “Who? Whom?”

Here’s a link to my May 1, 2013 article in VDARE that failed to fully anticipate Ms. Gessen’s New Yorker piece:

The Upcoming Bomb Brother Trial: Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Dzhokhar

As usual at iSteve, the last word belongs to:

I’m not black, but it’s about time for iSteve to post another picture of me!

 
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  1. ‘With us or against us’ isn’t relevant. The only relevant questions are: Did the accused commit the crime? and Is the punishment legally associated with the crime reasonable?

  2. They can send young Dzhokhar down here to Virginia, we’ll be glad to give him a fair and speedy trial.

  3. “Professor Borenstein recounts how he is profiled by the cops when he visits Moscow as a possible Chechen. And what have Chechens ever done to attract attention?

    By the way, Borenstein explains that until recently, when Russians used the word “black,” they were referring to hair color.”

    With me be being a Southern Italian, I would probably be profiled by Russian police as looking like a Chechen as well and be called “black” because of my very dark brown hair/black hair. The reason I put the slash there is because some people say I look like I have dark brown hair while other people say I look like I have black hair. Either way my hair is dark enough that nobody would mistake me for being blond, not even in Latin America and Southern Europe with their more loose definition of blond.

  4. anon • Disclaimer says:

    For those who don’t know, the guy with the checkered scarf is young Stalin. And yes, Russian Jews totally supported Muslim Chechens in their wars against Russians. This pattern can be seen worldwide. The neocons supported Muslim Bosnians and then Muslim Albanians against Serbs. They now support Sunni Syrians against the Alawite-Christian coalition led by Assad. European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe.

    • Replies: @Francis
    Stalin, a further eastern version of Nero.
    , @Anonymous
    Not the Jews in Malmö. It's really only a subset of elite Jews who support Muslim immigration to Europe. Small-time Jews, which is most of us, would not be eager to live under Muslim domination.
    , @Jim
    I've heard that Stalin always spoke Russian with a very pronounced accent so that even listening to him on the radio it was obvious he wasn't a Slav. Is this true?
  5. A Stalin, nipped in the bud.

  6. You know Russia is an extremely blond haired/light brown haired country when they refer to Caucasians with very dark hair as “Black”. That would never happen in Israel, Syria, Greece, Turkey, or Italy for example.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    Most of the troglodyte Politburo members had jet black hair. Leonid Brezhnev etc
  7. @anon
    For those who don't know, the guy with the checkered scarf is young Stalin. And yes, Russian Jews totally supported Muslim Chechens in their wars against Russians. This pattern can be seen worldwide. The neocons supported Muslim Bosnians and then Muslim Albanians against Serbs. They now support Sunni Syrians against the Alawite-Christian coalition led by Assad. European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe.

    Stalin, a further eastern version of Nero.

  8. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The Russian attitude to Caucasus natives has similarities to the European and American attitudes to Sicilians. Yes, there’s all that organized crime and corruption, but how can you not like them? All that color and charisma, the characteristic intonations and gestures, the passion, the attitude. Most peoples seem boring in comparison.

    • Replies: @Francis
    Our food is better. Much better. Understand?
    , @Michelle
    You meant, "Seem pale in comparison."
  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I suspect Gessen is worried that negative publicity reminding Americans of Chechen violence and terrorism will hamper American anti-Russian sentiment when the next round of Chechen terrorism and uprising against Russia erupts. The CIA is trying to launch a Moscow Maidan with Navalny and stir up Dagestani and Chechen jihadists against Russia.

  10. Seriously, WTF is wrong with this woman?

    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Seriously, WTF is wrong with this woman?
     
    Your point would be better taken if you had woman in scare quotes like so "woman".

    I say Masha's problem started in the womb when she was likely over exposed to androgens to one degree or another. In Masha's case I would say a high degree.

    Hard going through life as a woman with highly masculinized phenotype not to mention a confused psychology that is neither feminine or masculine.

    Take the time to google Classical/Non Classical Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia.

    And yes certain racial groups with a history of endogamous breeding like Jews have much much higher rates of CAH.

    At least Steve now has pictures of Masha Gessen, Sally Kohn, Rachel Maddow and Andrea Dworkin whenever one of his posts involves them. One look at them give you a heads up for the whole bag of crazy that is sure to follow.
    , @schmenz
    Aside from her being incoherently anti-Russian she is a woman maimed by her lesbianism. And that is why she despises Putin - and her homeland - so much: it dares to put the brakes, even a little, on the homosexual juggernaut.

    She runs around telling anyone who will listen that Russia is repressive vis-a-vis sodomites and those who disagree with Putin, without bothering to notice that Putin isn't persecuting her or any other homosexually-disturbed person. It is also possible her hatred for Christianity is a consequence of her Judaism.

    I pity her.
  11. Billngual speakers of Russian and English all recognize the disconnect between the terms “Caucasian” (i.e., “white”) and “Caucasian” (person from the Caucasus region of the former Soviet Union);

    All the more reason, I should think, to use Caucasoid instead. That way, people know that you are referring to the racial category and not just to people from the Caucasus (who are both Caucasian and Caucasoid)

  12. Using Russia’s very loose definition of “Black” people, Hussein Obama was not America’s first “Black” president. Richard Nixon with his very dark hair (either black or dark brown depending on who you ask) would qualify as a “Black” American president by Russian standards.

    Anybody who has darker hair than Vladimir Putin is “Black” in Russia.

  13. “The prosecution and, likely, its witnesses will repeatedly stress this sense of collective injury. Tsarnaev is accused of attacking America, and he may believe he did. The government will, in effect, ask the jury over and over again, “Are you with us or against us?””

    Wait, what? What is she trying to say here? The government accuses Tsarnaev of a deadly terrorist attack. The evidence that he is guilty is overwhelming, and in fact the defendant “may believe” he was motivated by a desire to . Presumably his real intentions, like those of the author in post-structuralist critique, do not actually exist.

    I kind of gather from reading the article that Gessen’s “problem” is the death penalty. But she never says that. She just takes some halfhearted potshots at the jury composition because they’re “mostly white” (you know, like the US population in general) and “almost all of them” are older than the defendant (what?). In fact, the anti-capital punishment stance is about the most charitable view she can be credited with. Perhaps she believes that Tsarnaev can only be justly tried by a jury of twelve Chechen teens or, maybe, that no white organization can ever pass judgment any non-WASP, legally or otherwise. Perhaps there will be no real justice in the world until a superintelligent computer is able to emulate and replicate Masha Gessen’s consciousness twelve times over, in order that she might apply her keen understanding of human motivation–determining the true intention of fellow intelligent beings too occulted by the white supremacist heteropatriarchy to interpret their own thoughts–in the dispensation of social justice, the only kind that matters.

    Steve, thanks for exposing this nutter (Gessen, not Tsarnaev). She’s a goddamn goldmine.

    • Replies: @wiseguy
    Yeah, Gessen is right about the need for supercomputers in the courtroom. But she forgot to suggest the obvious: replace unscientific and biased juries with the BCS system to determine guilt or innocence.
  14. @Jefferson
    You know Russia is an extremely blond haired/light brown haired country when they refer to Caucasians with very dark hair as "Black". That would never happen in Israel, Syria, Greece, Turkey, or Italy for example.

    Most of the troglodyte Politburo members had jet black hair. Leonid Brezhnev etc

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin's 'stache and Brezhnev's 'brows. That'd be really something.
  15. They had it so hard as kids that they couldn’t have gotten asylum in the United States on the regular process, it took Uncle Ruslan and Graham Fuller pulling strings.

  16. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Obviously, historical discrimination in Moscow has kept everybody from the Caucasus or south of the Caucasus from ever ascending high in Moscow.”

    One of the most inportant people in Russian government right now is a guy named Surkov. His family history is similar to Barry O’s – abandoned by his dark, passionate, exotic (Chechen) biofather almost at birth, then raised entirely by his lily-white (Russian) mother and her family.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And Bill Harder doppelganger!
  17. … She clearly has no desire to be one of us in any meaningful sense, no sane country would take her, and I like Sweden too much to wish her on them.

  18. Masha’s being carrying a chip on her shoulder for quite some time:

    I remember, as a child, reading Marina Tsvetaeva’s book on Pushkin and being puzzled by her description of the Pushkin monument — the one where we started.

    “Always under snow and ice — oh, I see them now, those shoulders weighed down with snow, all the snow of Russia weighing down and overpowering those African shoulders!” (My translation.)

    That’s classic Moscow. The great-grandson of a black man, the forefather of all of Russian poetry, to you, Moscow, Pushkin is first a black man, even if he has been standing here in stone longer than any Muscovite has been alive. In all the years I spent with you never for a minute did I forget that I was not an ethnic Russian (I was usually correctly identified as Jewish, sometimes mistaken for Armenian or Georgian, but nearly everyone I encountered found a way to acknowledge my ethnic difference). So used was I to the racism that I did not notice it when I read this book as a child, but I did notice something else: Tsvetaeva seemed to describe everything that was behind Pushkin’s back as being in front of him and vice versa.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/books/review/to-russia-with-tough-love.html?_r=0

  19. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    By the way, Borenstein explains that until recently, when Russians used the word “black,” they were referring to hair color.

    This was often the case in most places in the past. For example, the English surnames “Black” and “Blackman” derive from the dark or black haired ancestor of the surname. Eric the Red was named so not because he was an Indian but because he had red hair. Etc.

    • Replies: @Jeff W.
    What about the people whose last name is Green?

    I have read that in the 1300's or so when it became the custom for the English to give themselves last names, when the last name was a color it would sometimes be because of hair or complexion and sometimes because of the color of the clothing they habitually wore. Many people only had one suit of clothes in those days. If your clothes were green, then....

    When I was about 11 years old, my young friends liked to make prank calls to people who had a color for their last name. "Hello," they would say, "is this Mr. Brown?"

    "No, it is Mr. Green," would come the reply.

    Then they would say, "Sorry, I have the wrong color."

    They thought it was funny.

  20. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “The CIA is trying to launch a Moscow Maidan with Navalny and stir up Dagestani and Chechen jihadists against Russia.”

    They will also try to reignite the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Russia is closer to the Christian Armenia, the neocons will be supporting the Muslim Azerbaijan. Cold War I had lots of proxy wars, and so will Cold War II.

  21. @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?


    In order to dilute the European gene pool.
    , @Sam

    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?
     
    Same reason they push for immigration into the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
    , @AnAnon
    they think they can control it, and maybe they can.
  22. @anon
    The Russian attitude to Caucasus natives has similarities to the European and American attitudes to Sicilians. Yes, there's all that organized crime and corruption, but how can you not like them? All that color and charisma, the characteristic intonations and gestures, the passion, the attitude. Most peoples seem boring in comparison.

    Our food is better. Much better. Understand?

  23. Masha’s been carrying a chip on her shoulder for quite some time:

    I remember, as a child, reading Marina Tsvetaeva’s book on Pushkin and being puzzled by her description of the Pushkin monument — the one where we started.

    “Always under snow and ice — oh, I see them now, those shoulders weighed down with snow, all the snow of Russia weighing down and overpowering those African shoulders!” (My translation.)

    That’s classic Moscow. The great-grandson of a black man, the forefather of all of Russian poetry, to you, Moscow, Pushkin is first a black man, even if he has been standing here in stone longer than any Muscovite has been alive. In all the years I spent with you never for a minute did I forget that I was not an ethnic Russian (I was usually correctly identified as Jewish, sometimes mistaken for Armenian or Georgian, but nearly everyone I encountered found a way to acknowledge my ethnic difference). So used was I to the racism that I did not notice it when I read this book as a child, but I did notice something else: Tsvetaeva seemed to describe everything that was behind Pushkin’s back as being in front of him and vice versa.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/books/review/to-russia-with-tough-love.html?_r=0

  24. @Clyde
    Most of the troglodyte Politburo members had jet black hair. Leonid Brezhnev etc

    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin’s ‘stache and Brezhnev’s ‘brows. That’d be really something.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    The Russians joke about how their leaders switch off between a baldy and someone with a shock of hair.

    Nicholas - Hair
    Lenin - Bald
    Stalin - Hair
    Khrushchev - Bald
    Brezhnev - Hair
    Andropov - Bald
    Chernenko - Hair
    Gorby - Bald
    Yeltsen - Hair
    Putin - Bald

    , @Uptown Resident
    The picture of Stalin is shocking. I'd never seen a young Stalin.

    What's shocking is that he was extremely good looking.

    I googled "Stalin was handsome" to confirm that other women have had this same thought.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    Imagine a leader with Stalin’s ‘stache and Brezhnev’s ‘brows. That’d be really something.
     
    It'd be one mean Scrubbing Bubble, that's for damn sure.
  25. There might not be enough citizens from Caucasia in the area to form a complete jury, particularly if the Christian ones have to be excluded. Perhaps an all African-American jury could be seated in order to assure the maximum amount of impartiality.
    Why are people like this constantly being given platforms? There’s no grass-roots demand for these types; it’s all top-down.

  26. RE: Gessen’s childhood resentments,

    I earlier noted Kipling’s quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it’s fullest flowering among Irish-Americans. I think that we can detect something similar with American Jews of Russian/Ukrainian origin in regards to Russia. Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds? Note, for example, how different things are in Israel, where Russian/Ukrainian Jews seem more sanguine in their feelings towards Russia.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It's not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.
    , @Anonymous
    The Russian Jews who emigrated to the U.S. came in the wake of the May Laws and the pogroms and passed the memory of harsh treatment down to their children. The Russian Jews who emigrated to Israel emigrated from late Soviet or post-Soviet Russia. At various times, the Soviets clamped down on native Russians' Jew-hatred. At other times, they exploited it, but there the level of mistreatment never rose to the level of the pogroms. At the end of his life, Stalin wanted to deport and kill off a lot of Jews, but his death prevented it.
    , @Big Bill

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?
     
    No. America does not "breed" them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?
    , @Jim
    A lot of "Russian/Ukrainian Jews" in Israel aren't Jews.
  27. The jurors must may not on principle oppose the death penalty. They have to swear to uphold the law as it’s written and the law provides for the potential of a Djokhar funeral. That’s a hopeful sign!

  28. Just give Masha what she wants: Black jurors.

    I am sure they will be far more sympathetic than Massachusetts whites.

  29. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Using Russia’s very loose definition of “Black” people”

    Before mass immigration all European peoples used “black” as shorthand for dark-haired. This is where surnames like Black, Schwartz, Schwartzman, Negron, Cherny, etc. come from. And if your family name is Moore, Sarazzin or something of that sort, in all likelihood that just means that some medieval European ancestor of yours had darker hair than most of the people in his village.

  30. Why are people like this constantly being given platforms? There’s no grass-roots demand for these types; it’s all top-down

    Indeed

    Anyway, who is her daddy? That should answer the question.

  31. One of the most inportant people in Russian government right now is a guy named Surkov. His family history is similar to Barry O’s – abandoned by his dark, passionate, exotic (Chechen) biofather almost at birth, then raised entirely by his lily-white (Russian) mother and her family.

    Mom’s intelligence. Dad’s ruthlessness.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I think there's no reason at this point to posit that Surkov's father was not intelligent. I think for all his faults probably Obama's father must have been intelligent, too. It probably helped that in all likelihood Mom was intelligent, too, in both cases.
  32. @syonredux
    RE: Gessen's childhood resentments,

    I earlier noted Kipling's quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it's fullest flowering among Irish-Americans. I think that we can detect something similar with American Jews of Russian/Ukrainian origin in regards to Russia. Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds? Note, for example, how different things are in Israel, where Russian/Ukrainian Jews seem more sanguine in their feelings towards Russia.

    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It’s not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It’s not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.
     
    Actually, it seems quite analogous in terms of how it functioned on the ground. For example, Protestant England and Orthodox Russia both imposed restrictions based on confessional identity.Both the Irish and the Russian/Ukrainian Jews looked back to earlier periods of remembered prosperity (the Irish with their sentimental memories of Irish kings, the Jews with their nostalgia for the time when they thrived as tax-farmers and estate managers for the Polish nobility).

    In both cases, there was a persistent ancestral tradition that "they" (the filthy English, the brutal Russians) were to blame
  33. Those two guys on the right in the Ramzan Kadyrov picture probably resemble what the Russians traditionally mean by “black” i.e. dark featured non-northern European Caucasoids.

  34. “I earlier noted Kipling’s quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it’s fullest flowering among Irish-Americans.”

    There is an episode of “Burn Notice” where Fiona’s Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.

    • Replies: @Front toward enemy
    You referenced "Burn Notice", I don't know what to say.
    , @Hibernian
    At the time of the Falklands War, my Irish aunt and my German uncle, along with me, were watching TV news concerning the Falklands. My aunt said, "Aren't the British the bad guys?" My uncle said something like, "Maybe, I don't know." My aunt replied, "The British are always the bad guys!"
    , @Lurker

    There is an episode of “Burn Notice” where Fiona’s Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.
     
    Ironically you don't really get a lot of that talk right here in the belly of the beast itself - England. Yet Irish people are everywhere. Sure, there's a degree of 1st and even 2nd generation bitching about England, the Britsh, history etc but it seems to die out beyond that. Once you hit the 3rd, 4th generation people don't really seem to identify as Irish much, whereas it seems like Irish-Americans can keep it up indefinitely.

    I remember being with an Irish friend in London and we saw a whole family dressed completely in assorted Ireland t-shirts, green hats etc real tourist get-up. We exchanged glances and he said to me dismissively but not without some affection "Americans"

  35. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    People presume to know the Chechen look, but many Chechens have brown or even blond hair. If you met some of them, you couldn’t tell if they were ethnic Russians or Chechen or some Europeans.
    Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov has light brown (or reddish) hair. Depending on the context of an encounter, he might be mistaken for an ethnic Russian, Ukrainian, or Belarussian.

    In the 70s (when I lived there), Asian Soviets were called “churka” and, sometimes, “chuchmeck.” It meant “non-Russian,” primarily from Soviet Asian republics. See http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Churka

    I disagree that the way Russians use “black” refers to hair color. Maybe a century ago they did refer to hair color, but today “chyorny” when referring to someone describes the person not hair. Calling white people from the Caucuses “chyorny” is a slur, not a description of their race.

  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The last photo clearly shows a dramatic toning down of the Chechen leadership’s facial hair.

    The men are either clean-shaven or stubbled or short-bearded in the photo! This is an outrage. An affront to Allah.

    George Carlin would call this “pussification” of the Chechen male. Probably the local water supply has been hijacked by NWO operatives and is now filled with estrogen and SSRI’s.

    Leg shaving is next for the “men” of Chechnya.

  37. They will also try to reignite the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Russia is closer to the Christian Armenia, the neocons will be supporting the Muslim Azerbaijan.

    Azerbaijan is a nasty hereditary dictatorship which is more or less an Israeli puppet state. Despite all this anti-Russian frenzy I find it unlikely that the conflict will start again because frankly neither side has the resources to maintain it.

    • Replies: @anon
    "...neither side has the resources to maintain it."

    That's the thing that I'm afraid of - the US government may well give Azerbaijan the resources to maintain an armed conflict on Russia's periphery. Also, Azerbaijan has oil and gas.

    By the way, a few days ago Armenia formally entered the Russian-led Eurasian Union as its fourth member.

  38. “Depending on the context of an encounter, he might be mistaken for an ethnic Russian, Ukrainian, or Belarussian.”

    Not a chance. He has Middle Eastern, jinn-like facial features. In the European tradition the devil has often been drawn with those jinn-like features.

  39. I think our young defendant had the option not to have a jury and to let the trial judge decide instead.

    Funny that DT did not choose to let his fate rest with a experienced federal judge who had lots of training, experience and commitment to setting his or her own opinions aside and going by the law and the evidence presented in court, not by emotions.

  40. Remarkable to me, how much Stalin in those pics looks like Roosh.

    • Replies: @Bob Arctor
    Well, Roosh is Armenian and Stalin was Ossetian, so it's not that surprising really.
  41. @Anonymous
    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It's not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.

    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It’s not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.

    Actually, it seems quite analogous in terms of how it functioned on the ground. For example, Protestant England and Orthodox Russia both imposed restrictions based on confessional identity.Both the Irish and the Russian/Ukrainian Jews looked back to earlier periods of remembered prosperity (the Irish with their sentimental memories of Irish kings, the Jews with their nostalgia for the time when they thrived as tax-farmers and estate managers for the Polish nobility).

    In both cases, there was a persistent ancestral tradition that “they” (the filthy English, the brutal Russians) were to blame

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    All bordering groups have some degree of resentment, dislike, hatred of each other at varying times. Other than that basic fact, they're not really analogous.
    , @dearieme
    "For example, Protestant England ... imposed restrictions based on confessional identity." Oh, it was much worse than that in Ireland. When the first "English" royal army turned up - as that bunch of Normans, Welshmen, and Flemings is amusingly called - they were there, among other puposes, to fix orthodox Roman Catholicism on the Irish, the popes having been of the view that there was too much heterodoxy in the way the Irish church was organised.

    Not much is known about any religious impositions that the Irish colonists in England & Wales in the Dark Ages might have made, but the religious impositions of the Irish colonists in Scotland are only too clear, alas.
  42. @anon
    For those who don't know, the guy with the checkered scarf is young Stalin. And yes, Russian Jews totally supported Muslim Chechens in their wars against Russians. This pattern can be seen worldwide. The neocons supported Muslim Bosnians and then Muslim Albanians against Serbs. They now support Sunni Syrians against the Alawite-Christian coalition led by Assad. European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe.

    Not the Jews in Malmö. It’s really only a subset of elite Jews who support Muslim immigration to Europe. Small-time Jews, which is most of us, would not be eager to live under Muslim domination.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Not the Jews in Malmö. It’s really only a subset of elite Jews who support Muslim immigration to Europe. Small-time Jews, which is most of us, would not be eager to live under Muslim domination.
     
    Yet you will be held responsible for the actions of the Jewish Elite, just as every person of German descent was held responsible for Hitler and the Nazis after WWII.

    German-descended people all across the Eurasian landmass were expelled and forced to walk back to Germany, being raped, robbed, and murdered along the way. Peaceniks, quietists, farmers, traders --even people who were forced out of Germany hundreds of years before! All of them bore the same race-guilt for crimes they had no part of.

    I hope it does not come to that. But if it does, good luck!
  43. Why are people like this constantly being given platforms? There’s no grass-roots demand for these types; it’s all top-down.

    She’s not even liked by those journalists who are anti-Putin but who, unlike her, have integrity. Recently she caused a brouhaha with Russia observers that made her look even more ridiculous – quite an accomplishment. Kevin Rothrock on Masha Gessen’s Facebook F***up”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Her brother Keith Gessen is both saner and a better writer, but he doesn't get hired by the U.S. government to represent America in propaganda broadcasts to Russians, she does.
  44. Haha. Next to the Stalin’s photo, I’d like to see Beria’s and Mikoyan’s

  45. @Matra
    Why are people like this constantly being given platforms? There’s no grass-roots demand for these types; it’s all top-down.


    She's not even liked by those journalists who are anti-Putin but who, unlike her, have integrity. Recently she caused a brouhaha with Russia observers that made her look even more ridiculous - quite an accomplishment. Kevin Rothrock on Masha Gessen's Facebook F***up"

    Her brother Keith Gessen is both saner and a better writer, but he doesn’t get hired by the U.S. government to represent America in propaganda broadcasts to Russians, she does.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Her brother Keith Gessen is both saner and a better writer, but he doesn’t get hired by the U.S. government to represent America in propaganda broadcasts to Russians, she does.
     
    Keith doesn't have the Gay Mafia backing him.
  46. @anon
    The Russian attitude to Caucasus natives has similarities to the European and American attitudes to Sicilians. Yes, there's all that organized crime and corruption, but how can you not like them? All that color and charisma, the characteristic intonations and gestures, the passion, the attitude. Most peoples seem boring in comparison.

    You meant, “Seem pale in comparison.”

  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux
    RE: Gessen's childhood resentments,

    I earlier noted Kipling's quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it's fullest flowering among Irish-Americans. I think that we can detect something similar with American Jews of Russian/Ukrainian origin in regards to Russia. Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds? Note, for example, how different things are in Israel, where Russian/Ukrainian Jews seem more sanguine in their feelings towards Russia.

    The Russian Jews who emigrated to the U.S. came in the wake of the May Laws and the pogroms and passed the memory of harsh treatment down to their children. The Russian Jews who emigrated to Israel emigrated from late Soviet or post-Soviet Russia. At various times, the Soviets clamped down on native Russians’ Jew-hatred. At other times, they exploited it, but there the level of mistreatment never rose to the level of the pogroms. At the end of his life, Stalin wanted to deport and kill off a lot of Jews, but his death prevented it.

  48. None of Dzhokhar’s closest friends at college, at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, was white.

    But his sister-in-law is white. And she is a founding stock white at that.

  49. @Steve Sailer
    Her brother Keith Gessen is both saner and a better writer, but he doesn't get hired by the U.S. government to represent America in propaganda broadcasts to Russians, she does.

    Her brother Keith Gessen is both saner and a better writer, but he doesn’t get hired by the U.S. government to represent America in propaganda broadcasts to Russians, she does.

    Keith doesn’t have the Gay Mafia backing him.

  50. @Bert

    They will also try to reignite the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Russia is closer to the Christian Armenia, the neocons will be supporting the Muslim Azerbaijan.
     
    Azerbaijan is a nasty hereditary dictatorship which is more or less an Israeli puppet state. Despite all this anti-Russian frenzy I find it unlikely that the conflict will start again because frankly neither side has the resources to maintain it.

    “…neither side has the resources to maintain it.”

    That’s the thing that I’m afraid of – the US government may well give Azerbaijan the resources to maintain an armed conflict on Russia’s periphery. Also, Azerbaijan has oil and gas.

    By the way, a few days ago Armenia formally entered the Russian-led Eurasian Union as its fourth member.

  51. @syonredux

    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It’s not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.
     
    Actually, it seems quite analogous in terms of how it functioned on the ground. For example, Protestant England and Orthodox Russia both imposed restrictions based on confessional identity.Both the Irish and the Russian/Ukrainian Jews looked back to earlier periods of remembered prosperity (the Irish with their sentimental memories of Irish kings, the Jews with their nostalgia for the time when they thrived as tax-farmers and estate managers for the Polish nobility).

    In both cases, there was a persistent ancestral tradition that "they" (the filthy English, the brutal Russians) were to blame

    All bordering groups have some degree of resentment, dislike, hatred of each other at varying times. Other than that basic fact, they’re not really analogous.

  52. As for seeming pale in comparison, the Arab and Turkish slave traders used to make runs up north to capture pale skinned beauties from the Caucasus. Circassian women being the most valuable slaves of all time. Every Arab I know, claims to have a Circassian grandmother along the lines of the Cherokee princess in America.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    As for seeming pale in comparison, the Arab and Turkish slave traders used to make runs up north to capture pale skinned beauties from the Caucasus. Circassian women being the most valuable slaves of all time. Every Arab I know, claims to have a Circassian grandmother along the lines of the Cherokee princess in America.
     
    In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence pretends to a Circassian (i.e., descended from people from the Caucasus) when a Turkish officer (played by Jose Ferrer) remarks on his blue eyes.


    Of course, light eyes are not exactly unheard of among Turks (cf Kemal Ataturk)
  53. You can see him plotting already in this extremely 1980s family photo, along with Robert De Pacino, Joan Jettski, and Mahamad Harmon.

    That’s gold, Steve!

  54. I am sure most of you have heard this, but I will post it again anyway now that Masha is getting regular air and print time in the MSM.

    A year ago Gessen was recording saying the following about same-sex marriage:

    “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change and it should change, and again I don’t think it should exist.”

    Now I remember at that time some bloggers put this information out there, the response from many on the other side was, “So what? Who is Masha Gessen?”

    Admittedly, I could see their point. However, with the forum she is receiving as of late in the MSM, I think her statement about marriage deserves closer examination, or at least, her MSM sponsors should be forced to acknowledge her controversial views. After all, Pat Buchanan lost his gig at MSNBC because his writings on demographic change were considered out of bounds. Wouldn’t what Masha advocates be considered out of bounds too? I think her superiors need to explain why or why not.

    • Replies: @Forbes

    After all, Pat Buchanan lost his gig at MSNBC because his writings on demographic change were considered out of bounds. Wouldn’t what Masha advocates be considered out of bounds too? I think her superiors need to explain why or why not.
     
    Hardly. The lapdog media (and the culture) practices double standards. Green is a progressive, and on the correct side of history, moving inevitably toward the sunny uplands of the Utopian future. Buchanan is a reactionary, and therefore, can be dismissed with the wave of a hand. Should be obvious.

    The rules of the game may be unfair, but while you're complaining about the rules, the left is beating you like a rented mule.
  55. This is the beginning of a very popular Caucasus-themed Soviet movie:

    You see the mountains themselves, the ancient villages rising up their slopes, and you hear some of the characteristic Georgian attitude in the singer’s voice.

  56. Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    Probably for some sort of payback. But this is not exactly the first time Jews have supported muslim incursions into Europe, e.g. moorish-occupied Spain and ottoman-occupied Greece.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.
  57. England invaded and colonized Ireland. It’s not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.

    What about comparing the English invasion and colonization of Ireland with the Russian partitions of Poland that led to many Jews coming under Russian control, i.e the Pale of Settlement?

  58. How many passports does Gessen have?

    How many passports does Victoria Nuland have?

    Why are these kinds of questions not regularly asked in our media?

  59. @North Carolina Resident
    @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    In order to dilute the European gene pool.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    Because turning Europe into Africa meets Pakistan is so obviously good for Jews. Jews are well known for their affinity with Islamabad and Cameroon. Both deli hotspots.

    Or, there is an enourmous amount of loot to be made from the national down to the local level of mass third world immigration into the West. And short term thinking and gain coupled with post Chistian volk marxism one world utopian dogma is nearly unbeatable. Graft plus a mixture of Christs and Karls messages.
  60. Steve, can you please enlarge Gessen’s photo at the very top of this post? I think more people need to see it up close. Her appearance is very much an instance of truth in advertising. Her inner world – her thoughts, ideals and plans for our future – happen to be exactly as attractive as her earthly shell. This could be educational for some.

    • Replies: @CJ
    Monstrum in fronte, monstrum in animo.
  61. Looks like Masha is opening up a third offensive against the outrage that is due process, to go with the college rape hoax and the Black Lives Matter putsch.

  62. “Anonymous says:

    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin’s ‘stache and Brezhnev’s ‘brows. That’d be really something.”

    Yeah, Rip Taylor would make a great head of state.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    No, but Rip Torn ...
  63. @North Carolina Resident
    @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    Same reason they push for immigration into the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

  64. It’s good that we have disinterested people like Masha Gessen and Elliot Borenstein to explain Russia and Russians to us ignorant hayseeds out in jesus-land.

  65. @iSteveFan
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    Probably for some sort of payback. But this is not exactly the first time Jews have supported muslim incursions into Europe, e.g. moorish-occupied Spain and ottoman-occupied Greece.

    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.

    • Replies: @forte

    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.
     
    Could you tell which book exactly was that? He has so many.
    , @syonredux

    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.
     
    Protestant Anglos have been lauding Muslim Spain and lamenting its fall for centuries. Cf, for example, Washington Irving's Tales of the Alhambra
  66. Who does Masha Gessen think she is–Anthony Blanche from Brideshead Revisited?

  67. @Mr. Anon
    "Anonymous says:

    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin’s ‘stache and Brezhnev’s ‘brows. That’d be really something."

    Yeah, Rip Taylor would make a great head of state.

    No, but Rip Torn …

  68. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    There’s a type of person who writes these columns. Despite their origins, they’re not really American even though they’re often born here. They’re basically ditzy Jewish Euro-trash. They’re mouthy and they know equally mouthy guys with money who are interested in publishing, and thus we get to hear what some poor schlub normally puts up with over his breakfast eggs. Imagine Barbra Streisand ranting at Frank Pierson about A Star is Born and you’ll get the idea.

  69. I feel bad for this poor misunderstood Chechen kid. The first paragraph of the New Yorker piece says that he has a team of only 5 lawyers. That’s less than OJ!

  70. “Remarkable to me, how much Stalin in those pics looks like Roosh.”

    I could picture Roosh V with a Borat like accent because he looks like he is from a region of the world where Caucasians have funny sounding accents when they try to speak English.

  71. @Glossy
    Steve, can you please enlarge Gessen's photo at the very top of this post? I think more people need to see it up close. Her appearance is very much an instance of truth in advertising. Her inner world - her thoughts, ideals and plans for our future - happen to be exactly as attractive as her earthly shell. This could be educational for some.

    Monstrum in fronte, monstrum in animo.

  72. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    That’s an interesting photo of Richard Nixon and Elvis Presley.
    Of course, that photo commemorates an occasion when to boost both their vain and fragile egos, Richard Nixon made a big show of awarding Elvis Presley some type of enamelled Federal sherrif’s badge, which was, in fact, a specially commissioned, FBI mandated, presidential created ‘official’ ‘FBI anti-drug enforcement officer’ badge.
    Good photo-op for Nixon’s ‘war on drugs’ and his mistaken attempt to be ‘trendy and with-it’ by associating with the then ageing and old-hat Elvis. Good opportunity for Elvis to show his true-blue all-American credentials and get the ultimate endorsement.

    Anyhow, one day John Lennon visited Elvis. Elvis proudly showed off his badge, his official credentials and citations. Elvis was ever so proud. Prouder of his honorary badge more than any record of his.
    To which John Lennon gave the classic John Lennon reply, “Well Elvis, when are you going to turn in yourself?”.

  73. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The word ‘evil’ is often missused and thus loses its hard cutting edge.
    But surely it is ‘evil’ – no other word will suffice – for any bloody idiot out there, no matter who they are, to try to paint the perpertrator of an unspeakably cruel, planned and deliberate act, as some sort of ‘victim’, even before he has yet come to trial and has been ‘victimized’.

  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I read Masha Gessen’s piece.
    I really cannot understand the point she is trying to make, other than her obvious dislike of white gentiles.

    Her point about the ‘conflict’ of a jury seeking to do justice to the accused and exercising the right to punish offenders against the community is pure trash.

    The basic, basic point about criminal law in anglo-saxon countries is that criminal acts are always defined as acts against the state itself, and never as acts against individuals, which, of course, all civil acts. Criminal cases are always brought by the state prosecutor, no matter if it is a minor pick-pocketting theft, or as in this case, a terrorist massacre. Therefore in absolutely all criminal cases which are tried by jury, the jury is really finding against those who violate the state’s peace, rather than seeking direct recompense for victim of the criminal.
    Whether the accused is innocent or guilty is another matter.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Criminal cases are often called "The People versus So-and-So" to make this clear that we're all in this together.
  75. @Anonymous
    I read Masha Gessen's piece.
    I really cannot understand the point she is trying to make, other than her obvious dislike of white gentiles.

    Her point about the 'conflict' of a jury seeking to do justice to the accused and exercising the right to punish offenders against the community is pure trash.

    The basic, basic point about criminal law in anglo-saxon countries is that criminal acts are always defined as acts against the state itself, and never as acts against individuals, which, of course, all civil acts. Criminal cases are always brought by the state prosecutor, no matter if it is a minor pick-pocketting theft, or as in this case, a terrorist massacre. Therefore in absolutely all criminal cases which are tried by jury, the jury is really finding against those who violate the state's peace, rather than seeking direct recompense for victim of the criminal.
    Whether the accused is innocent or guilty is another matter.

    Criminal cases are often called “The People versus So-and-So” to make this clear that we’re all in this together.

  76. If you want an eye opening look at the boston bombing try reading dave McGowan account on his website. I know my ally on petitioning steve to question more media narratives old fogey will enjoy it!

    • Replies: @DCThrowback
    that was fascinating. holy cow. thanks for this L7s.
  77. Masha Gessen wrote:

    … the eighteen jurors who are eventually seated will face the difficult, if not impossible, task of separating their duty of representing the community as jurors from the outrage they may feel as members of a community that was attacked, by proxy, when the bombs went off at the Boston Marathon.

    Precisely correct. Same reason the Rosenbergs should have been given a pass. After all just think of the invalid outrage of a jury here considering people born to parents who fled to and were welcomed by this country to escape persecution, alleged to have almost immediately turned in their youths and devoted their every effort to betray this country.

    I mean … what cheek of those jury members! Expecting people who you’ve just recently welcomed into your bosom to … gasp … not want to see you dead!

    How … close-minded. After all, what’s a little treachery and subversion between friends?

  78. Borenstein is either extremely ignorant or as shameless a liar as Gessen. The pejorative colloquial term “chernyi” (black) applied to people has never had anything to do with hair colour. It refers only to (an exaggerated perception of ) skin colour, which is why an equally frequent variant is “chernozhopyi” (black-assed). People who are black in the American sense are politely called “temnokozhie” (dark-skinned), and you can all guess what they are impolitely called. “Chernyi” has never been used to refer to people in any official, neutral or sympathetic context. All these facts are well known to anyone who has ever spent any time in Russia and had any knowledge of Russian.

  79. There is a term in Swedish “svartskalle” which literally means “black head” or “black skull” and refers to people with black hair and other non-Nordic features. This word has pretty much been banned, at least by law, in Sweden.

  80. @Dennis Dale
    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.

    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.

    Could you tell which book exactly was that? He has so many.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    "Hopes and Prospects", 2010.
  81. @Francis
    Seriously, WTF is wrong with this woman?

    Seriously, WTF is wrong with this woman?

    Your point would be better taken if you had woman in scare quotes like so “woman”.

    I say Masha’s problem started in the womb when she was likely over exposed to androgens to one degree or another. In Masha’s case I would say a high degree.

    Hard going through life as a woman with highly masculinized phenotype not to mention a confused psychology that is neither feminine or masculine.

    Take the time to google Classical/Non Classical Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia.

    And yes certain racial groups with a history of endogamous breeding like Jews have much much higher rates of CAH.

    At least Steve now has pictures of Masha Gessen, Sally Kohn, Rachel Maddow and Andrea Dworkin whenever one of his posts involves them. One look at them give you a heads up for the whole bag of crazy that is sure to follow.

    • Replies: @californian
    wow, I had to get pretty far down in the comments to realize the top picture was of Masha Gessen, and that apparently she's female. I thought it was an older picture of one of the bomber guys, or maybe one of their lawyers.
  82. I disagree that the way Russians use “black” refers to hair color. Maybe a century ago they did refer to hair color, but today “chyorny” when referring to someone describes the person not hair. Calling white people from the Caucuses “chyorny” is a slur, not a description of their race.

    -From I, someone who has spent some time in Russia and is black-haired, though not Caucasian/Southerner (though sometimes incorrectly suspected of Jewish ancestry), seconded. I was instantly suspicious that “professor Eliot Borenstein” was making stuff up. “Temnokozhie” is some of the most politically-correct nonsense I’ve ever heard, and I doubt it’s used much. I think you’re more likely to hear Blacks in the Sub-Saharan African sense referred to as “negri” or “cherniye”. There are plenty of black-haired Russians who don’t look like Caucasians/Southerners.

  83. Cui bono?

    Nah, back to sleep.

  84. “a community that was attacked, by proxy’

    The community wasn’t attacked by proxy. It was attacked by Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. There is no reasonable doubt that Dzhokhar did it.

    It is simply life without parole or death. And realistically, the death penalty has fallen out of favor in US. Dzhokhar lawyers could have pled to a deal involving life without parole, but preferred not to.

    I am in favor of death. But, don’t really care much. Except I want him in some sort of super-max where he isn’t going to be allowed to get married and have conjugal visits.

  85. At The New Yorker, former Our Woman in Moscow Masha Gessen, Establishment spokesperson for turning World War G into World War 3 …

    Funny, I just recently finished re-reading Our Man In Havana and I have to say the comparison fits. I get the impression there’s a nice little ecosystem of “men in Havana” who make a living out of Putin-pestering and filing hyped reports.

  86. I am in favor of death. But, don’t really care much. Except I want him in some sort of super-max where he isn’t going to be allowed to get married and have conjugal visits.

    Why not the best of both worlds? Life with complete physical castration. And conjugal visits.

  87. Samuel Pepys uses the word black for a person with black hair in the 1660’s.

    This whole trial is like the dance of seven veils, stretching out the irrational ecstasy. The punk is so obviously guilty, 5% of the evidence against him would secure a conviction in 10 minutes without compromising the fairness of the verdict. The problem is that we, as America, would feel validated and confident when we saw our criminal justice system working so efficiently, and that would be counterproductive for the smart and savvy that have plans of their own for our nation.

    No one is allowed to think about anything important if he wants to be taken seriously.

    • Replies: @anon
    "Samuel Pepys uses the word black for a person with black hair in the 1660′s."

    Since England had little to no blacks during Pepys' lifetime, you could probably describe a black-haired man as black. Nowadays that would just cause confusion.

  88. @David
    Samuel Pepys uses the word black for a person with black hair in the 1660's.

    This whole trial is like the dance of seven veils, stretching out the irrational ecstasy. The punk is so obviously guilty, 5% of the evidence against him would secure a conviction in 10 minutes without compromising the fairness of the verdict. The problem is that we, as America, would feel validated and confident when we saw our criminal justice system working so efficiently, and that would be counterproductive for the smart and savvy that have plans of their own for our nation.

    No one is allowed to think about anything important if he wants to be taken seriously.

    “Samuel Pepys uses the word black for a person with black hair in the 1660′s.”

    Since England had little to no blacks during Pepys’ lifetime, you could probably describe a black-haired man as black. Nowadays that would just cause confusion.

    • Replies: @Harold
    There is a black man called Mingo in Pepys Diary. Here is an amusing incident on Valentine’s day:

    Up early and to Sir W. Batten’s, but would not go in till I asked whether they that opened the door was a man or a woman, and Mingo, who was there, answered a woman, which, with his tone, made me laugh.
     
    I believe Pepys asks whether “they that opened the door was a man or a woman” because it was the custom that the first member of the opposite sex someone saw on Valentine’s day became their Valentine.
    I assume Mingo very much didn’t sound like a woman.

    HBD:


    At last we made Mingo, Sir W. Batten's black, and Jack, Sir W. Pen's, dance, and it was strange how the first did dance with a great deal of seeming skill.
     
    Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper.

    Even with all the Blacks in America I remember a black-haired white man being referred to as “black” in a radio show from the fifties.

  89. Thanks for the latest Masha Madness update.

  90. @Mark Minter
    Remarkable to me, how much Stalin in those pics looks like Roosh.

    Well, Roosh is Armenian and Stalin was Ossetian, so it’s not that surprising really.

    • Replies: @Jim
    Stalin was Georgian not Ossetian.
  91. @Michelle
    As for seeming pale in comparison, the Arab and Turkish slave traders used to make runs up north to capture pale skinned beauties from the Caucasus. Circassian women being the most valuable slaves of all time. Every Arab I know, claims to have a Circassian grandmother along the lines of the Cherokee princess in America.

    As for seeming pale in comparison, the Arab and Turkish slave traders used to make runs up north to capture pale skinned beauties from the Caucasus. Circassian women being the most valuable slaves of all time. Every Arab I know, claims to have a Circassian grandmother along the lines of the Cherokee princess in America.

    In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence pretends to a Circassian (i.e., descended from people from the Caucasus) when a Turkish officer (played by Jose Ferrer) remarks on his blue eyes.

    Of course, light eyes are not exactly unheard of among Turks (cf Kemal Ataturk)

    • Replies: @Michelle
    Yes, Effendi.
  92. @anon
    "Samuel Pepys uses the word black for a person with black hair in the 1660′s."

    Since England had little to no blacks during Pepys' lifetime, you could probably describe a black-haired man as black. Nowadays that would just cause confusion.

    There is a black man called Mingo in Pepys Diary. Here is an amusing incident on Valentine’s day:

    Up early and to Sir W. Batten’s, but would not go in till I asked whether they that opened the door was a man or a woman, and Mingo, who was there, answered a woman, which, with his tone, made me laugh.

    I believe Pepys asks whether “they that opened the door was a man or a woman” because it was the custom that the first member of the opposite sex someone saw on Valentine’s day became their Valentine.
    I assume Mingo very much didn’t sound like a woman.

    HBD:

    At last we made Mingo, Sir W. Batten’s black, and Jack, Sir W. Pen’s, dance, and it was strange how the first did dance with a great deal of seeming skill.

    Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper.

    Even with all the Blacks in America I remember a black-haired white man being referred to as “black” in a radio show from the fifties.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper."

    A rather lonely job.

  93. @Harold
    There is a black man called Mingo in Pepys Diary. Here is an amusing incident on Valentine’s day:

    Up early and to Sir W. Batten’s, but would not go in till I asked whether they that opened the door was a man or a woman, and Mingo, who was there, answered a woman, which, with his tone, made me laugh.
     
    I believe Pepys asks whether “they that opened the door was a man or a woman” because it was the custom that the first member of the opposite sex someone saw on Valentine’s day became their Valentine.
    I assume Mingo very much didn’t sound like a woman.

    HBD:


    At last we made Mingo, Sir W. Batten's black, and Jack, Sir W. Pen's, dance, and it was strange how the first did dance with a great deal of seeming skill.
     
    Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper.

    Even with all the Blacks in America I remember a black-haired white man being referred to as “black” in a radio show from the fifties.

    “Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper.”

    A rather lonely job.

    • Replies: @Harold
    He was given the keeping of two lighthouses! And £20 a year (of lawfull money of England no less!).

    I give and bequeath to my servante Mingoe a Negroe That now dwelleth with mee the somme of Tenne pounds to be paid within Twelve monethes next after my decease And I doe alsoe give unto him the said Mingoe the Custody and keeping of my Light houses Att Harwich, and the somme of Twenty pounds a yeare of lawfull money of England during the Terme of his naturall life for his paines therein
     
    , @David
    Maybe he had company:

    According to the Huntingdon Civic Society (http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/hgcs/page2.htm) a Thomas Mingo is recorded as marrying at St Mary’s Church, “(The first black person to marry in this country) in 1685 as a part of Huntingdon’s rich black history.”
    , @Stumpy Pepys
    A rather lonely job. Just like yours Steve. Keep that inquisitive light shining brother. Steve you are our private lighthouse and it i and s up to everyone who enjoys your work to keep the whale oil and provisions arriving to your forlorn cape.
  94. @Jefferson
    "I earlier noted Kipling’s quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it’s fullest flowering among Irish-Americans."

    There is an episode of "Burn Notice" where Fiona's Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.

    You referenced “Burn Notice”, I don’t know what to say.

  95. I once read a book by Masha Gessen, Perfect Rigor. Ostensibly it is about Grigory Perelman and his solution of the Poincaré conjecture (it was given to me because of my intererst in such things). In reality it is mostly about the Russian educational program for the mathematically talented and how anti-semitic it is and all the strings which needed to be pulled behind the scenes for Perelman because of his jewishness. This is as boring as it sounds. I don’t recommend the book; you will learn almost nothing about Perelman and even less about his mathematics. One wonders if Masha Gessen would be as troubled by the anti-Asian discrimination in the Ivy League (or anti-Gentile discrimination).

    From the back of the book:

    A fascinating and highly insightful look at the Soviet, and later Russian, educational system that produced—or rather was manipulated to produce—one of the most amazing, and at the same time mysterious, mathematical problem solvers the world has ever seen.
    —Keith Devlin

    This should read:

    A boring and highly boring look at the anti-semitic Soviet, and later Russian, educational system that produced—or rather despite its anti-semitism was manipulated to produce—one of the most amazing, and at the same time mysterious, mathematical problem solvers the world has ever seen—and yet about whom you’ll learn nothing interesting.

    • Replies: @Jim
    No system "produced" or was "manipulated to produce" Perelman. He just is what he is.
  96. Cf the use of black to describe dark-haired/dark complected White people in the British Isles:

    Shakespeare’s elaborate verbal play in Love’s Labour’s Lost regarding the dark-haired Rosaline:

    FERDINAND
    By heaven, thy love is black as ebony.
    BIRON
    Is ebony like her? O wood divine!
    A wife of such wood were felicity.
    O, who can give an oath? where is a book?
    That I may swear beauty doth beauty lack,
    If that she learn not of her eye to look:
    No face is fair that is not full so black.

    Jonathan Swift describing the Duke of Somerset:

    Duke of Somerset:

    Is of a middle stature, well shaped, a very black complexion, a lover of music and poetry; of good judgment [not a grain;hardly common sense];but by reason of a great hesitation in his speech wants expression. He is about forty-two years old.

    John Witaker’s description of John Spens:

    It was contrived by him, no doubt, in concurrence with one, who was commonly called Black
    John Spens, one of the Queen’s two Attornies General (Anderson, ii, 97), though a violent Protestant (Knox 338); who was probably engaged in the murder himself (Anderson i.48), who was certainly embarked in the rebellion afterwards (Keith, 452 and Goodall, ii. 370), and of whom, considering his black complexion and his anti-papistical spirit together, […]

    Mary Queen Of Scots Vindicated: In Three Volumes, Volume 1, pages 302-303.

    In the fourteenth year of my age, by a fellow scholar of swarth, black complexion, I had like to have my right eye beaten out as we were at play

    William Lilly’s history of his life and times from the year 1602 to 1681, page 20

    His Majesty had further opportunity of discovering his zeal against heresy this year, upon two of his own subjects; one was Bartholomew Legate an Arian; he was a comely person, of a black complexion, and about forty years of age

    The History of the Puritans: Or, Protestant Non-Conformists, from the Reformation to the Death of Queen Elizabeth, with an Account of Their Principles, Their Attempts for a Further Reformation in the Church, Their Sufferings, and the Lives and Characters of Their Principal Divines, Volume 2
    page 89

    And here is a description of the inhabitants of the Western Isles of Scotland:

    The Inhabitants are generally well proportioned, and of a black Complexion; they speak only the Irish Tongue and use the Habit, Diet, and etc that is used in the Western Isles

    A Description of the Western Islands of Scotland: Containing a Full Account of Their Situation, Extent, Soils, Product, Harbours, Bays, Tides, Anchoring-places, and Fisheries. The Antient and Modern Government, Religion and Customs of the Inhabitants; Particularly of Their Druids, Heathen Temples, Monasteries, Churches, Chappels, Antiquities, Monuments, Forts, Caves, and Other Curiosities of Art and Nature: of Their Admirable and Expeditious Way of Curing Most Diseases by Simples of Their Own Product. A Particular Account of the Second Sight, Or Faculty of Foreseeing Things to Come, by Way of Vision, So Common Among Them. A Brief Hint of Methods to Improve Trade in that Country, Both by Sea and Land. With a New Map of the Whole, Describing the Harbours, Anchoring-places, and Dangerous Rocks, for the Benefit of Sailors. To which is Added, A Brief Description of the Isles of Orkney and Schetland

    page 248

    A description of Thomas, Earl of Ormonde:

    He was a very comely and graceful man, and of a black complexion, which gained him among the Irish the surname of Duffe

    A History of the Life of James Duke of Ormonde, Volume 1, page Lxiv

    The inhabitants of this Isle are well proportioned, generally brown, and some of a black complexion

    A Tour in Ireland: With General Observations on the Present State of that Kingdom: Made in the Years 1776, 1777, and 1778, and Brought Down to the End of 1779, page 646

  97. a. I thought that first picture was Dzhokhar on a bad day, at first.

    b. Professor Borenstein writes: “When I’m in Moscow, I expect to be stopped by police and asked for my documents on a fairly regular basis. With the protection of my magical American passport, I usually treat it as something of a sport, baiting younger, Chechen-hunting police officers who have lost the Soviet-era knack for spotting a Jew. ” Baiting police officers is a dangerous game.

  98. @Steve Sailer
    "Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper."

    A rather lonely job.

    He was given the keeping of two lighthouses! And £20 a year (of lawfull money of England no less!).

    I give and bequeath to my servante Mingoe a Negroe That now dwelleth with mee the somme of Tenne pounds to be paid within Twelve monethes next after my decease And I doe alsoe give unto him the said Mingoe the Custody and keeping of my Light houses Att Harwich, and the somme of Twenty pounds a yeare of lawfull money of England during the Terme of his naturall life for his paines therein

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    For 20 pounds per year back then, you could hire a couple of lighthouse keepers.

    That raises the perennial question in libertarian economics: How do you make money off private lighthouses?

  99. @Harold
    He was given the keeping of two lighthouses! And £20 a year (of lawfull money of England no less!).

    I give and bequeath to my servante Mingoe a Negroe That now dwelleth with mee the somme of Tenne pounds to be paid within Twelve monethes next after my decease And I doe alsoe give unto him the said Mingoe the Custody and keeping of my Light houses Att Harwich, and the somme of Twenty pounds a yeare of lawfull money of England during the Terme of his naturall life for his paines therein
     

    For 20 pounds per year back then, you could hire a couple of lighthouse keepers.

    That raises the perennial question in libertarian economics: How do you make money off private lighthouses?

    • Replies: @Harold
    If you’re not libertarian you get the King to grant you permission to extract a toll.

    And whereas the Kings most excellent Maiesty by his Highnes letter Pattens under the greate Seale of England bearing date at Westminster the fower and Twentieth day of December in the sixteenth yeare of his highnesses reigne hath given and granted to me the said Sir William Batten my executors administrators and assignes free Liberty Lissence and power and authority to make build erect and set up continewe renewe maintayne upon a certaine peece or parcell of ground granted by the Inhabitants of Harwich in the County of Essex aforesaid to me the said Sir William Batten two convenient Light houses or Beacons with Lights to be continually burning in the night season, And the same to Change remove and alter upon the said ground as occasion shall require for and during the Terme of Threescore and one yeares And to be demand collecte have and take of and for every Ship Hoy Barke Crayer Katch or other vessell that shall passe that way Laden, at Newcastle, or Sunderland the somme of one halfe penny upon every tunne according to the burthen of the ship or vessell And one halfe penny upon every tunne of all other English shipps and vessells passing by the said Lighthouses And one penny upon every tunne of all strangers shipps vessells and Bottomes as shall happen to passe thereby And shall put into any porte Rode or harbor of the Realme although they doe not unloade and discharge any goods there.
     
    How this is effected I’m not quite sure.
    , @AlreadyResearched
    Steve,

    Here's Tyler Cowen on private lighthouses in The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics:

    Economists have argued that if private lighthouse owners attempted to charge ship-owners for lighthouse services, a free-rider problem would result. Yet lighthouses off the coast of nineteenth-century England were privately owned. Lighthouse owners realized that they could not charge shipowners for their services. So they didn't try to. Instead, they sold their service to the owners and merchants of the nearby port. Port merchants who did not pay the lighthouse owners to turn on the lights had trouble attracting ships to their port. As it turns out, one of the economics instructors' most commonly used examples of a public good that cannot be privately provided is not a good example at all.
    , @a Newsreader
    I imagine they would be maintained by insurance cartels.
  100. @anon
    For those who don't know, the guy with the checkered scarf is young Stalin. And yes, Russian Jews totally supported Muslim Chechens in their wars against Russians. This pattern can be seen worldwide. The neocons supported Muslim Bosnians and then Muslim Albanians against Serbs. They now support Sunni Syrians against the Alawite-Christian coalition led by Assad. European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe.

    I’ve heard that Stalin always spoke Russian with a very pronounced accent so that even listening to him on the radio it was obvious he wasn’t a Slav. Is this true?

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Jim:

    I wouldn't say it was obvious that he wasn't a Slav, but it was obvious that he wasn't a native Russian speaker. As far as that goes, I've heard the same said about Khruschev---that he spoke with a distinct Ukrainian accent.
    , @anon
    Yes, Stalin spoke Russian with a strong non-native accent. He only had trouble with the phonetics if the language though. His grammar and vocabulary were identical to that of a smart, well-educated native. And he never employed speechwriters or ghosts.

    Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn't aristocratic. I don't have a good sense of how Khruschov talked and I don't have time for YouTube now. Brezhev and Gorbachov spoke with a southern Russian/east Ukrainian accent (those are one and the same thing). Yeltsin had a slight Urals accent. Putin's Russian is devoid of any regionalisms.
  101. @Harold
    I once read a book by Masha Gessen, Perfect Rigor. Ostensibly it is about Grigory Perelman and his solution of the Poincaré conjecture (it was given to me because of my intererst in such things). In reality it is mostly about the Russian educational program for the mathematically talented and how anti-semitic it is and all the strings which needed to be pulled behind the scenes for Perelman because of his jewishness. This is as boring as it sounds. I don’t recommend the book; you will learn almost nothing about Perelman and even less about his mathematics. One wonders if Masha Gessen would be as troubled by the anti-Asian discrimination in the Ivy League (or anti-Gentile discrimination).

    From the back of the book:

    A fascinating and highly insightful look at the Soviet, and later Russian, educational system that produced—or rather was manipulated to produce—one of the most amazing, and at the same time mysterious, mathematical problem solvers the world has ever seen.
    —Keith Devlin
     
    This should read:

    A boring and highly boring look at the anti-semitic Soviet, and later Russian, educational system that produced—or rather despite its anti-semitism was manipulated to produce—one of the most amazing, and at the same time mysterious, mathematical problem solvers the world has ever seen—and yet about whom you’ll learn nothing interesting.
     

    No system “produced” or was “manipulated to produce” Perelman. He just is what he is.

    • Replies: @Harold
    I mostly agree. However, in some sense he was “produced”. He wouldn’t have been a mathematician if he was born centuries earlier.

    Recently there were some comments here on John von Neumann. Here is Jacob Bronowski on von Neumann of whom he also said “He was the cleverest man I ever knew”:

    He was born in 1903, the son of a Jewish family in Hungary. If he had been born a hundred years earlier we would never had heard of him. He would have been doing what his father and grandfather did, making rabbinical comments on dogma.

    Instead he was a child prodigy of mathematics…
     
    But, again, I agree that you can hardly credit the Russian education system for producing Perelman.
  102. @Dennis Dale
    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.

    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.

    Protestant Anglos have been lauding Muslim Spain and lamenting its fall for centuries. Cf, for example, Washington Irving’s Tales of the Alhambra

  103. @Steve Sailer
    For 20 pounds per year back then, you could hire a couple of lighthouse keepers.

    That raises the perennial question in libertarian economics: How do you make money off private lighthouses?

    If you’re not libertarian you get the King to grant you permission to extract a toll.

    And whereas the Kings most excellent Maiesty by his Highnes letter Pattens under the greate Seale of England bearing date at Westminster the fower and Twentieth day of December in the sixteenth yeare of his highnesses reigne hath given and granted to me the said Sir William Batten my executors administrators and assignes free Liberty Lissence and power and authority to make build erect and set up continewe renewe maintayne upon a certaine peece or parcell of ground granted by the Inhabitants of Harwich in the County of Essex aforesaid to me the said Sir William Batten two convenient Light houses or Beacons with Lights to be continually burning in the night season, And the same to Change remove and alter upon the said ground as occasion shall require for and during the Terme of Threescore and one yeares And to be demand collecte have and take of and for every Ship Hoy Barke Crayer Katch or other vessell that shall passe that way Laden, at Newcastle, or Sunderland the somme of one halfe penny upon every tunne according to the burthen of the ship or vessell And one halfe penny upon every tunne of all other English shipps and vessells passing by the said Lighthouses And one penny upon every tunne of all strangers shipps vessells and Bottomes as shall happen to passe thereby And shall put into any porte Rode or harbor of the Realme although they doe not unloade and discharge any goods there.

    How this is effected I’m not quite sure.

  104. The use of the term “black” by Shakespeare or Pepys to describe someone of darker than average complexion in Britain or with black hair is hardly surprising. I wonder if either one of them ever met an actual Negro?

    • Replies: @dearieme
    "I wonder if either one of them ever met an actual Negro?" I wonder too; the description of Othello is not much like a "Moor" in the modern sense; perhaps "Moor" then meant negro? If so, what were North Africans called? "Turk" maybe?
  105. @syonredux

    England invaded and colonized Ireland. It’s not really analogous unless you believe the old theory that Ashkenazi Jews were Khazars or something.
     
    Actually, it seems quite analogous in terms of how it functioned on the ground. For example, Protestant England and Orthodox Russia both imposed restrictions based on confessional identity.Both the Irish and the Russian/Ukrainian Jews looked back to earlier periods of remembered prosperity (the Irish with their sentimental memories of Irish kings, the Jews with their nostalgia for the time when they thrived as tax-farmers and estate managers for the Polish nobility).

    In both cases, there was a persistent ancestral tradition that "they" (the filthy English, the brutal Russians) were to blame

    “For example, Protestant England … imposed restrictions based on confessional identity.” Oh, it was much worse than that in Ireland. When the first “English” royal army turned up – as that bunch of Normans, Welshmen, and Flemings is amusingly called – they were there, among other puposes, to fix orthodox Roman Catholicism on the Irish, the popes having been of the view that there was too much heterodoxy in the way the Irish church was organised.

    Not much is known about any religious impositions that the Irish colonists in England & Wales in the Dark Ages might have made, but the religious impositions of the Irish colonists in Scotland are only too clear, alas.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Quite true, but I've noticed that the the Irish prefer to dilate only on certain tragedies; for example, Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in the Irish imagination:

    Ireland
    Charles Carlton, Going to the Wars (1992)
    Petty's 1672 estimate of dead in Ireland, covering 10/1641-10/1653:
    Protestants d. by war, dis., malnu.: 112,000, incl. 37,000 massacred at outbreak. Carlton says that 37,000 is exaggeration by factor of 9 or 10.
    Catholic d.: 504,000
    Total: 618,000 [sic.]
    Fuller, A Military History of the Western World, v.2 (1955): 500,000
    R.F. Foster, Modern Ireland 1600-1972 (1988)
    Irish population decline from 2.0M (ca. 1640) to 1.7M (1672) [i.e.: 300,000]
    1641: 4,000 k. in Ulster
    Pitirim Sorokin:
    The Sociology of Revolution (1967): 100,000 to 200,000 Irish massacred, 1651
    Social and Cultural Dynamics, vol.3: 5,500 battle losses, 1649-52
    Hirst, Authority & Conflict: England, 1603-1658 (1986): Ulster rebellion, 1641: 4,000 Protestants k. immediately + 8,000 refugees died in winter.
    Morgan, Oxford History of Britain: Ulster rebellion, 1641: 3,000 Protestants k.
     
    And I've run into more than a few Irish academics who grow positively livid at the mention of Spenser:

    IREN. I suppose that the chief cause of bringing in the Irish language amongst them was specially their fostering and marrying with the Irish, the which are two most dangerous infections. For, first, the child that sucketh the milk of the nurse must of necessity learn his first speech of her, the which being the first inured >> note 11 to his tongue, is ever after most pleasing unto him, insomuch as, though he afterwards be taught English, yet the smack of the first will always abide with him; and not only of the speech, but also of the manners and conditions. For, besides that young children be like apes, which will affect and imitate what they see done before them, especially by their nurses whom they love so well, they moreover draw into themselves together with their suck even the nature and disposition of their nurses. For the mind followeth much the temperature >> note 12 of the body, and also the words are the image of the mind; so as they proceeding from the mind, the mind must needs be affected with the words; so that, the speech being Irish, the heart must needs be Irish, for out of the abundance of the heart the tongue speaketh. The next is the marrying with the Irish, which how dangerous a thing it is in all commonwealths appeareth to every simplest sense. And though some great ones have perhaps used such matches with their vassals, and have of them nevertheless raised worthy issue, as Telamon >> note 13 did with Tecmessa, Alexander the Great with Roxana, and Julius Caesar with Cleopatra, yet the example is so perilous as it is not to be adventured. For instead of those few good I could count unto them infinite many evil. And, indeed, how can such matching succeed well, seeing that commonly the child taketh most of his nature of the mother, besides speech, manners, and inclination, which are (for the most part) agreeable to the conditions of their mothers? For by them they are first framed and fashioned, so as what they receive once from them they will hardly ever after forego. Therefore are those evil customs of fostering and marrying with Irish most carefully to be restrained, for of those two the third evil, that is, the custom of language, which I spake of, chiefly proceedeth.
     

    IREN. The end will, I assure me, be very short, and much sooner than can be in so great a trouble, as it seemeth, hoped for. Although there should none of them fall by the sword nor be slain by the soldier, yet thus being kept from manurance >> note 14 and their cattle from running abroad, by this hard restraint they would quickly consume themselves and devour one another. The proof whereof I saw sufficiently exampled in these late wars of Munster, for, notwithstanding that the same was a most rich and plentiful country, full of corn and cattle, that you would have thought they should have been able to stand long, yet ere one year and a half they were brought to such wretchedness as that any stony heart would have rued the same. Out of every corner of the woods and glens they came creeping forth upon their hands, for their legs could not bear them. They looked like anatomies of death; >> note 15 they spake like ghosts crying out of their graves; they did eat the dead carrions, happy where they could find them; yea, and one another soon after, insomuch as the very carcasses they spared not to scrape out of their graves. And if they found a plot of watercresses or shamrocks, there they flocked as to a feast for the time, yet not able long to continue there withal; that in short space there were none almost left, and a most populous and plentiful country suddenly left void of man and beast. Yet sure, in all that war there perished not many by the sword, but all by the extremity of famine which they themselves had wrought.
     
    Edmund Spenser, from A View of the Present State of Ireland
  106. @Anonymous
    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin's 'stache and Brezhnev's 'brows. That'd be really something.

    The Russians joke about how their leaders switch off between a baldy and someone with a shock of hair.

    Nicholas – Hair
    Lenin – Bald
    Stalin – Hair
    Khrushchev – Bald
    Brezhnev – Hair
    Andropov – Bald
    Chernenko – Hair
    Gorby – Bald
    Yeltsen – Hair
    Putin – Bald

  107. Dzhokar looks like Neil Gaiman.

  108. @Steve Sailer
    "Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper."

    A rather lonely job.

    Maybe he had company:

    According to the Huntingdon Civic Society (http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/hgcs/page2.htm) a Thomas Mingo is recorded as marrying at St Mary’s Church, “(The first black person to marry in this country) in 1685 as a part of Huntingdon’s rich black history.”

  109. @Jim
    I've heard that Stalin always spoke Russian with a very pronounced accent so that even listening to him on the radio it was obvious he wasn't a Slav. Is this true?

    Jim:

    I wouldn’t say it was obvious that he wasn’t a Slav, but it was obvious that he wasn’t a native Russian speaker. As far as that goes, I’ve heard the same said about Khruschev—that he spoke with a distinct Ukrainian accent.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    Hmmm, so wasn't Khrushchev the one who gave Crimea to Ukraine?

    Maybe he was thinking about the breakup of the USSR even then.
  110. @Jim
    No system "produced" or was "manipulated to produce" Perelman. He just is what he is.

    I mostly agree. However, in some sense he was “produced”. He wouldn’t have been a mathematician if he was born centuries earlier.

    Recently there were some comments here on John von Neumann. Here is Jacob Bronowski on von Neumann of whom he also said “He was the cleverest man I ever knew”:

    He was born in 1903, the son of a Jewish family in Hungary. If he had been born a hundred years earlier we would never had heard of him. He would have been doing what his father and grandfather did, making rabbinical comments on dogma.

    Instead he was a child prodigy of mathematics…

    But, again, I agree that you can hardly credit the Russian education system for producing Perelman.

  111. Big Bill [AKA "Will Rogers"] says:
    @syonredux
    RE: Gessen's childhood resentments,

    I earlier noted Kipling's quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it's fullest flowering among Irish-Americans. I think that we can detect something similar with American Jews of Russian/Ukrainian origin in regards to Russia. Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds? Note, for example, how different things are in Israel, where Russian/Ukrainian Jews seem more sanguine in their feelings towards Russia.

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed.
     
    Then why doesn't the "pre-installed crazy" activate in Israel? If it's a matter of being in the "homeland," why do Irish-Americans hate England more than the Irish in England do?

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty).
     
    She was picked because of those issues, not despite them
    , @The Anti-Gnostic

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.
     
    Well stated.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?
     
    One of the other androgynous deviants with no marketable skills who flock to these kinds of sinecures. Atlanta city government has them as well.

    People talk about 'negro-fatigue,' it's pretty easy to foresee the coming 'jew-fatigue.' If I were a conservative Jew, I'd either marry out and leave Judaism behind or really start hammering on my fellow tribesmen to stop antagonizing the founding stock.
    , @Keith Vaz
    "I cannot figure out why any American..." She and the people that put her there are NOT American. Google Kevin MacDonald and Hostile Elite to understand how our Scots-Irish friends are destroying White people.
    , @GFC

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?
     
    Who picked her? Other jews.
    , @Anonymous
    Not all Ashkenazi Jews agree that Israel is our home. None of our ancestors lived there for almost two thousand years. Per recent genetic studies, a significant portion of our distant ancestors (the southern European ones) never lived there. If we should go "home" to Israel, perhaps you should also go "home" to your ancestral nations in Europe and leave America to its rightful inhabitants, the Native American tribes. Not appealing? Oh well.
  112. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Hunsdon
    Jim:

    I wouldn't say it was obvious that he wasn't a Slav, but it was obvious that he wasn't a native Russian speaker. As far as that goes, I've heard the same said about Khruschev---that he spoke with a distinct Ukrainian accent.

    Hmmm, so wasn’t Khrushchev the one who gave Crimea to Ukraine?

    Maybe he was thinking about the breakup of the USSR even then.

  113. I’d never heard of Masha Gessen but when I saw that mug I thought she must be related to n+1 poetaster Keith Gessen and sure enough: they’re sibs.

  114. “Steve Sailer says:

    Criminal cases are often called “The People versus So-and-So” to make this clear that we’re all in this together.”

    And to make it clear that the DA represents the people.

    Even when he doesn’t.

    Especially when he doesn’t.

  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Not the Jews in Malmö. It's really only a subset of elite Jews who support Muslim immigration to Europe. Small-time Jews, which is most of us, would not be eager to live under Muslim domination.

    Not the Jews in Malmö. It’s really only a subset of elite Jews who support Muslim immigration to Europe. Small-time Jews, which is most of us, would not be eager to live under Muslim domination.

    Yet you will be held responsible for the actions of the Jewish Elite, just as every person of German descent was held responsible for Hitler and the Nazis after WWII.

    German-descended people all across the Eurasian landmass were expelled and forced to walk back to Germany, being raped, robbed, and murdered along the way. Peaceniks, quietists, farmers, traders –even people who were forced out of Germany hundreds of years before! All of them bore the same race-guilt for crimes they had no part of.

    I hope it does not come to that. But if it does, good luck!

  116. No less an authority than the great nineteenth-century Russian poet Afanasy Fet, in a hilarious 2002 letter to the expat newspaper “The eXile”, pointed out that, in fact, all Russians are black:

    Negroes had slavery until the 1860s, Russians had slavery until the 1860s. Negroes mostly live in dilapidated highrises, Russians do too.

    Negroes don’t like to work, demanding payouts from the government, Russians don’t like to work, missing the days when they could get payouts from the government.

    Negroes like to riot, so do Russians.

    Most Negro adult males have been to prison at least once, most Russian adult males have been to prison too.

    Negroes like to wear leather jackets and huge golden chains, Russians do too.

    When a Negro gets some money, he buys the biggest ugliest SUV he can find, so does a Russian.

    Russians are Negroes!

    Read the whole thing at http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=6731&IBLOCK_ID=35&PAGE=4

  117. @Bob Arctor
    Well, Roosh is Armenian and Stalin was Ossetian, so it's not that surprising really.

    Stalin was Georgian not Ossetian.

  118. Another writer at Unz has a detailed takedown of Gessen and her fellow travelers here:

    http://www.unz.com/article/examining-the-hatred-of-vladimir-putin-and-russia/

    It is long, but an excellent read.

  119. @syonredux
    RE: Gessen's childhood resentments,

    I earlier noted Kipling's quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it's fullest flowering among Irish-Americans. I think that we can detect something similar with American Jews of Russian/Ukrainian origin in regards to Russia. Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds? Note, for example, how different things are in Israel, where Russian/Ukrainian Jews seem more sanguine in their feelings towards Russia.

    A lot of “Russian/Ukrainian Jews” in Israel aren’t Jews.

  120. “Dzhokar looks like Neil Gaiman.”

    Could explain why Gaiman’s wife, Amanda Palmer, wrote such an odd poem about Dzhokhar. She definitely has a type: http://blog.amandapalmer.net/20130421/

  121. @anonymous-antimarxist

    Seriously, WTF is wrong with this woman?
     
    Your point would be better taken if you had woman in scare quotes like so "woman".

    I say Masha's problem started in the womb when she was likely over exposed to androgens to one degree or another. In Masha's case I would say a high degree.

    Hard going through life as a woman with highly masculinized phenotype not to mention a confused psychology that is neither feminine or masculine.

    Take the time to google Classical/Non Classical Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia.

    And yes certain racial groups with a history of endogamous breeding like Jews have much much higher rates of CAH.

    At least Steve now has pictures of Masha Gessen, Sally Kohn, Rachel Maddow and Andrea Dworkin whenever one of his posts involves them. One look at them give you a heads up for the whole bag of crazy that is sure to follow.

    wow, I had to get pretty far down in the comments to realize the top picture was of Masha Gessen, and that apparently she’s female. I thought it was an older picture of one of the bomber guys, or maybe one of their lawyers.

  122. @Big Bill

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?
     
    No. America does not "breed" them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed.

    Then why doesn’t the “pre-installed crazy” activate in Israel? If it’s a matter of being in the “homeland,” why do Irish-Americans hate England more than the Irish in England do?

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty).

    She was picked because of those issues, not despite them

    • Replies: @Big Bill


    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed.
     
    Then why doesn’t the “pre-installed crazy” activate in Israel?
     
    Whose "pre-installed crazy" are you referring to? Gessen's? Because she doesn't live in Israel and doesn't want to move to Israel. Israelis don't put up with Gessenish silliness (or Femen-ish activism). And they certainly would never make her some radio ambassador to Russia or let her be a public face for their foreign policy. Really, can you see some galut luftmensch like Gessen in an IDF uniform?
  123. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim
    I've heard that Stalin always spoke Russian with a very pronounced accent so that even listening to him on the radio it was obvious he wasn't a Slav. Is this true?

    Yes, Stalin spoke Russian with a strong non-native accent. He only had trouble with the phonetics if the language though. His grammar and vocabulary were identical to that of a smart, well-educated native. And he never employed speechwriters or ghosts.

    Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn’t aristocratic. I don’t have a good sense of how Khruschov talked and I don’t have time for YouTube now. Brezhev and Gorbachov spoke with a southern Russian/east Ukrainian accent (those are one and the same thing). Yeltsin had a slight Urals accent. Putin’s Russian is devoid of any regionalisms.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Part of Putin's appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.
    , @Crawfurdmuir
    "Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn’t aristocratic."

    This is interesting to read. The Ulyanovs were minor nobility. The Order of St. Vladimir had been conferred upon Lenin's father, a school administrator, and it carried hereditary noblesse with it in the manner of a number of such continental European chivalric orders. The 19th-century czarist regime followed a practice of awarding orders and decorations to civil servants of senior rank, in much the same way as had been done in Napoleonic France.

    While Lenin was thus not of the ancient Russian aristocracy, his family was nouveau-riche, recently ennobled, and he was university-educated, so it makes sense that he was brought up to use a cultivated accent - in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.

  124. @anon
    Yes, Stalin spoke Russian with a strong non-native accent. He only had trouble with the phonetics if the language though. His grammar and vocabulary were identical to that of a smart, well-educated native. And he never employed speechwriters or ghosts.

    Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn't aristocratic. I don't have a good sense of how Khruschov talked and I don't have time for YouTube now. Brezhev and Gorbachov spoke with a southern Russian/east Ukrainian accent (those are one and the same thing). Yeltsin had a slight Urals accent. Putin's Russian is devoid of any regionalisms.

    Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.
     
    Yeah, I've read how Putin was something of a relief after Yeltsin's boozy incoherence.

    I must admit that one of the things that I like about Obama (after suffering through 8 years of George W butchering the English language) is the fact that he speaks well. Sure, he feels the need to tinge* his speech with a slight trace of AAV (and sometimes rather more than a tinge when he is addressing predominantly Black audiences), but he a well-spoken fellow.


    * given his background, an entirely artificial tinge.Rather reminds me of Mick Jagger's old mockney act.
    , @Peter Akuleyev

    Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.
     
    Not classy at all, in fact Putin has been known to use the occasional gangster and prison slang to come off as macho. He also uses a lot of the Soviet era cliches and proverbs that most Russians in positions of power feel compelled to throw into everyday speech. Putin just speaks in a very normal, non-affected way that appeals to the common man. Speaking "classy" Russian has been viewed with suspicion since the 1920s. Masha Gessen probably speaks "classy" Russian.
  125. @Big Bill

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?
     
    No. America does not "breed" them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    Well stated.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    One of the other androgynous deviants with no marketable skills who flock to these kinds of sinecures. Atlanta city government has them as well.

    People talk about ‘negro-fatigue,’ it’s pretty easy to foresee the coming ‘jew-fatigue.’ If I were a conservative Jew, I’d either marry out and leave Judaism behind or really start hammering on my fellow tribesmen to stop antagonizing the founding stock.

  126. @dearieme
    "For example, Protestant England ... imposed restrictions based on confessional identity." Oh, it was much worse than that in Ireland. When the first "English" royal army turned up - as that bunch of Normans, Welshmen, and Flemings is amusingly called - they were there, among other puposes, to fix orthodox Roman Catholicism on the Irish, the popes having been of the view that there was too much heterodoxy in the way the Irish church was organised.

    Not much is known about any religious impositions that the Irish colonists in England & Wales in the Dark Ages might have made, but the religious impositions of the Irish colonists in Scotland are only too clear, alas.

    Quite true, but I’ve noticed that the the Irish prefer to dilate only on certain tragedies; for example, Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in the Irish imagination:

    Ireland
    Charles Carlton, Going to the Wars (1992)
    Petty’s 1672 estimate of dead in Ireland, covering 10/1641-10/1653:
    Protestants d. by war, dis., malnu.: 112,000, incl. 37,000 massacred at outbreak. Carlton says that 37,000 is exaggeration by factor of 9 or 10.
    Catholic d.: 504,000
    Total: 618,000 [sic.]
    Fuller, A Military History of the Western World, v.2 (1955): 500,000
    R.F. Foster, Modern Ireland 1600-1972 (1988)
    Irish population decline from 2.0M (ca. 1640) to 1.7M (1672) [i.e.: 300,000]
    1641: 4,000 k. in Ulster
    Pitirim Sorokin:
    The Sociology of Revolution (1967): 100,000 to 200,000 Irish massacred, 1651
    Social and Cultural Dynamics, vol.3: 5,500 battle losses, 1649-52
    Hirst, Authority & Conflict: England, 1603-1658 (1986): Ulster rebellion, 1641: 4,000 Protestants k. immediately + 8,000 refugees died in winter.
    Morgan, Oxford History of Britain: Ulster rebellion, 1641: 3,000 Protestants k.

    And I’ve run into more than a few Irish academics who grow positively livid at the mention of Spenser:

    IREN. I suppose that the chief cause of bringing in the Irish language amongst them was specially their fostering and marrying with the Irish, the which are two most dangerous infections. For, first, the child that sucketh the milk of the nurse must of necessity learn his first speech of her, the which being the first inured >> note 11 to his tongue, is ever after most pleasing unto him, insomuch as, though he afterwards be taught English, yet the smack of the first will always abide with him; and not only of the speech, but also of the manners and conditions. For, besides that young children be like apes, which will affect and imitate what they see done before them, especially by their nurses whom they love so well, they moreover draw into themselves together with their suck even the nature and disposition of their nurses. For the mind followeth much the temperature >> note 12 of the body, and also the words are the image of the mind; so as they proceeding from the mind, the mind must needs be affected with the words; so that, the speech being Irish, the heart must needs be Irish, for out of the abundance of the heart the tongue speaketh. The next is the marrying with the Irish, which how dangerous a thing it is in all commonwealths appeareth to every simplest sense. And though some great ones have perhaps used such matches with their vassals, and have of them nevertheless raised worthy issue, as Telamon >> note 13 did with Tecmessa, Alexander the Great with Roxana, and Julius Caesar with Cleopatra, yet the example is so perilous as it is not to be adventured. For instead of those few good I could count unto them infinite many evil. And, indeed, how can such matching succeed well, seeing that commonly the child taketh most of his nature of the mother, besides speech, manners, and inclination, which are (for the most part) agreeable to the conditions of their mothers? For by them they are first framed and fashioned, so as what they receive once from them they will hardly ever after forego. Therefore are those evil customs of fostering and marrying with Irish most carefully to be restrained, for of those two the third evil, that is, the custom of language, which I spake of, chiefly proceedeth.

    IREN. The end will, I assure me, be very short, and much sooner than can be in so great a trouble, as it seemeth, hoped for. Although there should none of them fall by the sword nor be slain by the soldier, yet thus being kept from manurance >> note 14 and their cattle from running abroad, by this hard restraint they would quickly consume themselves and devour one another. The proof whereof I saw sufficiently exampled in these late wars of Munster, for, notwithstanding that the same was a most rich and plentiful country, full of corn and cattle, that you would have thought they should have been able to stand long, yet ere one year and a half they were brought to such wretchedness as that any stony heart would have rued the same. Out of every corner of the woods and glens they came creeping forth upon their hands, for their legs could not bear them. They looked like anatomies of death; >> note 15 they spake like ghosts crying out of their graves; they did eat the dead carrions, happy where they could find them; yea, and one another soon after, insomuch as the very carcasses they spared not to scrape out of their graves. And if they found a plot of watercresses or shamrocks, there they flocked as to a feast for the time, yet not able long to continue there withal; that in short space there were none almost left, and a most populous and plentiful country suddenly left void of man and beast. Yet sure, in all that war there perished not many by the sword, but all by the extremity of famine which they themselves had wrought.

    Edmund Spenser, from A View of the Present State of Ireland

    • Replies: @dearieme
    "Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in the Irish imagination": indeed. What's hard to know is how much of it was indeed imagination. The great massacre of civilians at Drogheda, often said to be the greatest of his crimes, is fictional. I take it that much of the rest of the sad tale isn't. I also suppose that the heroic efforts made to reduce the estimates of the number of protestants slaughtered at the onset of the rebellion have not been matched by equivalent efforts to reduce the estimates of the number of Roman Catholics slaughtered thereafter. A bad business; it's a bit like the flattening of Germany in WWII: it's unwise to start a war, commit some atrocities, and then lose it. Did what the Nazis had done justify our destruction of Germany's cities, or the Red Army's rape of Germany's women?

    I may be biased: my Irish grandfather was a great one for cautioning against belief in accounts of Irish history, especially those told by people from his side of the great divide i.e. the Roman Catholic, nationalist side.

    Did Iraq's part in 9/11 justify the American attack on her and the consequent mountain of bodies? Of course that's a trick question since Iraq's part in 9/11 was nil. A better question: did the Confederacy's secession justify Sherman's terrorism during his march to the sea? God knows.
  127. @Big Bill

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?
     
    No. America does not "breed" them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    “I cannot figure out why any American…” She and the people that put her there are NOT American. Google Kevin MacDonald and Hostile Elite to understand how our Scots-Irish friends are destroying White people.

  128. Then why doesn’t the “pre-installed crazy” activate in Israel? If it’s a matter of being in the “homeland,” why do Irish-Americans hate England more than the Irish in England do?

    The pre-installed crazy activates in the USA because the USA is a powerful nation that can have some influence on other nations. An Irishmen in Ireland can hate England all he wants, but he can never really use the Irish Republic to punish England. But in the USA, an Irishman who rises to prominence might be able to influence US policy against England. Joe Kennedy was made ambassador to the UK in 1938. And less than two years later was asked to resign because Churchill and others could not stand him. Unfortunately for Joe, the US-UK relationship was deemed more important than him.

    I imagine the same goes for Russian-Jews in Israel. If they really have a lot of Russia hatred, they could do more damage to Russia as insiders with the US establishment than in the Israeli establishment. And since the Israelis view Russia as a potential friend, where many Jews still live, I doubt they are in a hurry to anger Russia. So if you are a Russian-Jew who wants to take out a couple hundred years of revenge, the USA is the best possible place for you. Whether that is the best possible thing for the citizens of the USA is another question.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    So if you are a Russian-Jew who wants to take out a couple hundred years of revenge, the USA is the best possible place for you.
    --
    Your posited cabalists do not exist outside your imagination.
    , @SFG
    I have another suggestion.

    Irish people in Ireland don't want to piss off the UK because it's next door. Irish people in America can rant all they want, but it's unlikely to affect anything either way--the UK is a major American ally and likely to remain so. So it's sort of a cheap position to hold, likely because it's unlikely to affect anything.

    Also, Irish people in Ireland feel Irish. Irish people in America don't, so they play up their Irishness by exaggerating their feuds with the Brits.

    Jews in Russia and Israel are a different story--the ones in Russia want to stay out of trouble, and the Israelis don't want to pick a fight with a potential ally. The American Jews (at least the tendentious ones in the media--I can't stress enough practically none of the Jews I knew in person back in NYC were anywhere near as crazy as Masha) are safe from any repercussions, unless of course they're stupid enough to start WW3. But Putin's not dumb enough to do that, he wants to rule Russia, not a cold plain of radioactive glass.

    Again, Jews in Israel aren't worried about being Jewish. But Jews in America are always afraid they're going to be assimilated into the body politic (with some justification--the intermarriage rate is 50%, and there are quite a few non-Jews on Jdate). But they don't like religion, because it's right-wing. So there's liberalism instead, which happens to dovetail nicely with some old stories Grandma told about the czar at this point in time.

    Similarly, most of the Israelis I knew were perfectly happy to bury the hatchet with Germany--they're getting free submarines, and buying high-quality German refrigerators, and they need all the allies they can get. But American Jews love to hang around and make WW2 movies and make cheesy jokes about Germans in movies, because they aren't afraid of pissing off the Germans.

    So, like most things, it's multifactorial, as my dad used to say. It's (A) does the group in question feel culturally threatened (B) does the group in question feel physically threatened and (C) are there any consequences for keeping your old hatreds...and the arrows can point in different ways.
  129. I am in favor of death. But, don’t really care much. Except I want him in some sort of super-max where he isn’t going to be allowed to get married and have conjugal visits.

    I’d prefer a life sentence for him. He might get bored after a few years in solitary and start talking about the Waltham murders and if the Boston bombings were part of a larger plot.

  130. “By the way, Borenstein explains that until very recently, when Russians used the word “black,” they were referring to hair color not skin color.”

    Same use in Poland.

  131. The pre-installed crazy activates in the USA because the USA is a powerful nation that can have some influence on other nations.

    Yeah, but Britain was much more powerful than the USA in the 1860s, but that didn’t stop the Irish in the USA from mounting raids on Canada (cf the Fenian Raids*) that could have caused war to break out between America and the UK

    *Between 1866 and 1871, the Fenian raids of the Fenian Brotherhood, an Irish Republican organization who were based in the United States, on British army forts, customs posts and other targets in Canada, were fought to bring pressure on Britain to withdraw from Ireland

    • Replies: @p s c
    As you have noted, the raids were right after the Civil War, a war in which the Brits openly traded with the enemy (Confederacy) of the USA fed government. The US turned a blind eye toward the raids in order to tweek the Brits or at least show their displeasure towards the crown for conspiring with the South.

    After about the 3rd or 4th raid, the feds cracked down on the Fenians. But a point was made.

    American-Irish hostility to Britain is quite natural. When a powerful country treats your kin to murder, famine, rapine, and poverty; How else should one feel? Even after emigrating or after hearing such stories from parents and grandparents.
    , @CJ
    You set off a rash of comments about the Fenian raids. Are you and the other commenters aware that Canada did not become an independent country with that name until 1867? The Fenians were striking at the nearest British territory they could attack.
  132. @Steve Sailer
    Part of Putin's appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.

    Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.

    Yeah, I’ve read how Putin was something of a relief after Yeltsin’s boozy incoherence.

    I must admit that one of the things that I like about Obama (after suffering through 8 years of George W butchering the English language) is the fact that he speaks well. Sure, he feels the need to tinge* his speech with a slight trace of AAV (and sometimes rather more than a tinge when he is addressing predominantly Black audiences), but he a well-spoken fellow.

    * given his background, an entirely artificial tinge.Rather reminds me of Mick Jagger’s old mockney act.

  133. @L7's
    If you want an eye opening look at the boston bombing try reading dave McGowan account on his website. I know my ally on petitioning steve to question more media narratives old fogey will enjoy it!

    that was fascinating. holy cow. thanks for this L7s.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Not fascinating. Sad. McGowan is sick and I mean that literally. Certain people cannot process the enormity of certain earthshaking events and their way of dealing with it is denial. Their minds just shut down. That was not a guy who was just like you a minute ago (who could have BEEN you), there on a pleasant afternoon to see a race and now you see him on TV with his legs blown to smithereens and his life will never be the same again. No, no, no, I deny that that is possible. He must just be a Hollywood actor and the blood is just ketchup. Just like those towers that the CIA blew up and those fake gas chambers at Auschwitz. All Hollywood special effects or else what the hell kind of world do we live in where this sh*t goes on, where little innocent children bleed to death and young women have their legs torn off, where Germans build efficient factories for turning millions of people into ashes? This nightmare can't be real. Sorry, Dave, it's all too real in this crazy world of ours.
  134. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    People like Gessen and Jewish-American promotion of her ilk make it ever clearer as to why ‘antisemitism’ was so prevalent in the West.

    If this is the nature of Jewish Influence, why should any people like Jews?

    On the other hand, let the Jews keep promoting her ilk. People will gradually awaken as to how rotten the Jewish elite community has become.

    PS. Charles Murray now agrees with Gessenism when it comes to marriage. What a lowdown craven tard.

  135. @North Carolina Resident
    @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?

    they think they can control it, and maybe they can.

  136. @ivvenalis
    "The prosecution and, likely, its witnesses will repeatedly stress this sense of collective injury. Tsarnaev is accused of attacking America, and he may believe he did. The government will, in effect, ask the jury over and over again, “Are you with us or against us?”"

    Wait, what? What is she trying to say here? The government accuses Tsarnaev of a deadly terrorist attack. The evidence that he is guilty is overwhelming, and in fact the defendant "may believe" he was motivated by a desire to . Presumably his real intentions, like those of the author in post-structuralist critique, do not actually exist.

    I kind of gather from reading the article that Gessen's "problem" is the death penalty. But she never says that. She just takes some halfhearted potshots at the jury composition because they're "mostly white" (you know, like the US population in general) and "almost all of them" are older than the defendant (what?). In fact, the anti-capital punishment stance is about the most charitable view she can be credited with. Perhaps she believes that Tsarnaev can only be justly tried by a jury of twelve Chechen teens or, maybe, that no white organization can ever pass judgment any non-WASP, legally or otherwise. Perhaps there will be no real justice in the world until a superintelligent computer is able to emulate and replicate Masha Gessen's consciousness twelve times over, in order that she might apply her keen understanding of human motivation--determining the true intention of fellow intelligent beings too occulted by the white supremacist heteropatriarchy to interpret their own thoughts--in the dispensation of social justice, the only kind that matters.

    Steve, thanks for exposing this nutter (Gessen, not Tsarnaev). She's a goddamn goldmine.

    Yeah, Gessen is right about the need for supercomputers in the courtroom. But she forgot to suggest the obvious: replace unscientific and biased juries with the BCS system to determine guilt or innocence.

  137. Yeah, but Britain was much more powerful than the USA in the 1860s, but that didn’t stop the Irish in the USA from mounting raids on Canada (cf the Fenian Raids*) that could have caused war to break out between America and the UK

    Britain was not much more powerful than the USA by the 1860s. By that time, the US population was equal to or greater than the UK. By that time the US GDP was very close to the UK’s and was rising faster. And for obvious reasons, the 1860s saw a massive increase in the size US Army, which by 1865 was experienced and combat hardened.

    The Irish raiders probably wanted to start a fight between Britain and the US. The trouble for them, like Joe Kennedy later found out, was that the US was more interested in having good relations with the UK than it was in fighting a revenge fight for the Irish.

  138. @Anonymous
    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin's 'stache and Brezhnev's 'brows. That'd be really something.

    The picture of Stalin is shocking. I’d never seen a young Stalin.

    What’s shocking is that he was extremely good looking.

    I googled “Stalin was handsome” to confirm that other women have had this same thought.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I presumed it was retouched to clear up the smallpox scars, but that's only fair.
    , @Anonymous
    He was also 5' 4". Even Truman, a fellow manlet himself at 5' 7", called him "a little squirt".
    , @Michelle
    Saddam Hussein was extremely good looking when he was young too. So manly, with that thick moustache.
  139. @josmore

    One of the most inportant people in Russian government right now is a guy named Surkov. His family history is similar to Barry O’s – abandoned by his dark, passionate, exotic (Chechen) biofather almost at birth, then raised entirely by his lily-white (Russian) mother and her family.

     

    Mom's intelligence. Dad's ruthlessness.

    I think there’s no reason at this point to posit that Surkov’s father was not intelligent. I think for all his faults probably Obama’s father must have been intelligent, too. It probably helped that in all likelihood Mom was intelligent, too, in both cases.

  140. @forte

    I recall reading the first few pages of a recent Noam Chomsky book where, in listing all that is awful about the West, he laments the Reconquista because the Jews had more rights under the Moors.
     
    Could you tell which book exactly was that? He has so many.

    “Hopes and Prospects”, 2010.

    • Replies: @forte
    Thanks!
  141. @Steve Sailer
    "Mingo was later given a position as a lighthouse keeper."

    A rather lonely job.

    A rather lonely job. Just like yours Steve. Keep that inquisitive light shining brother. Steve you are our private lighthouse and it i and s up to everyone who enjoys your work to keep the whale oil and provisions arriving to your forlorn cape.

  142. I don’t get how the kid is “obviously guilty”; remember the first photo of him, head up with backwards white hat, smiling, no shades. didn’t really look like someone on the way to commit mayhem, unlike his brother. I still suspect the whole thing was security theater gone horribly bad, and the brothers were patsies.

    On a lighter note, speaking of the eXile; anybody know what happened to Ames? bound and gagged in Omydar’s basement?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Joker is a psychopath, gifted with the ability to compartmentalize. When he was with his brother he was a fiery Muslim fundamentalist and stone cold killer. With his dope smoking buddies at college he was a regular stoner dude. He went back to classes after the bombing as if nothing had happened. If he was just some kind of "patsy" he would have looked nervous in the photos, instead of unnaturally calm and smiling.
  143. Maybe “Joan Jettski” (lolz) primed me to think about 80’s music, but IMHO young Stalin looks like the resulting offspring of “The Other Guy from Wham” impregnating George Michael.

  144. Masha sure has that East Coast/SanFran androgynous Pat look fron SNL going on. That’s a bad sign because it generally IME it means she/it has a lot of hate towards hetro whites and Western values.

    I just wish these creatures would just go back to their Jewish homeland and not bother us goys. All this deplorable sort brings us is woe.

  145. Big Bill [AKA "Will Rogers"] says:
    @syonredux

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed.
     
    Then why doesn't the "pre-installed crazy" activate in Israel? If it's a matter of being in the "homeland," why do Irish-Americans hate England more than the Irish in England do?

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty).
     
    She was picked because of those issues, not despite them

    No. America does not “breed” them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed.

    Then why doesn’t the “pre-installed crazy” activate in Israel?

    Whose “pre-installed crazy” are you referring to? Gessen’s? Because she doesn’t live in Israel and doesn’t want to move to Israel. Israelis don’t put up with Gessenish silliness (or Femen-ish activism). And they certainly would never make her some radio ambassador to Russia or let her be a public face for their foreign policy. Really, can you see some galut luftmensch like Gessen in an IDF uniform?

  146. @Big Bill

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?
     
    No. America does not "breed" them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    Who picked her? Other jews.

  147. L7's [AKA "L7s"] says:

    Thanks DC throwback that was my initial reaction.im from boston and my family is still there my dad actually donated to victims but when I actually looked at the actual pictures I couldn’t believe the disconnect from the official narrative. Professional first responders who should be able to give reasonably accurate accounts turned out to be not even close to the visual evidence.it would be like describing my six year old sons flag football as the n.f.l..it took me about a year to actually look at the pictures because I’m squeamish about gore but those pictures raise so many valid questions that no mainstream sources will touch.i would love steve to just take an open minded look at the evidence and weigh in.

  148. @Dennis Dale
    "Hopes and Prospects", 2010.

    Thanks!

  149. I really don’t know where you’re getting this nonsense about Irish-Americans hating England. I am in my mid 40s and have known hundreds of Irish-Americans in my lifetime. I have yet to meet one who hates either the English or American WASPs. Maybe a hundred years ago they did, but that was a long time ago. The only people I’ve heard them criticize were blacks, but then my people feel the same way. I can’t speak for the Irish outside of America as I’ve known very few if them. As for Masha Gessen, she is just one of the worst of the hate the West crowd. She sickens me physically and mentally.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Hating England wasn't a big thing during my 12 years of Catholic school education.
  150. @iSteveFan
    I am sure most of you have heard this, but I will post it again anyway now that Masha is getting regular air and print time in the MSM.

    A year ago Gessen was recording saying the following about same-sex marriage:

    "Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change and it should change, and again I don't think it should exist."

    Now I remember at that time some bloggers put this information out there, the response from many on the other side was, "So what? Who is Masha Gessen?"

    Admittedly, I could see their point. However, with the forum she is receiving as of late in the MSM, I think her statement about marriage deserves closer examination, or at least, her MSM sponsors should be forced to acknowledge her controversial views. After all, Pat Buchanan lost his gig at MSNBC because his writings on demographic change were considered out of bounds. Wouldn't what Masha advocates be considered out of bounds too? I think her superiors need to explain why or why not.

    After all, Pat Buchanan lost his gig at MSNBC because his writings on demographic change were considered out of bounds. Wouldn’t what Masha advocates be considered out of bounds too? I think her superiors need to explain why or why not.

    Hardly. The lapdog media (and the culture) practices double standards. Green is a progressive, and on the correct side of history, moving inevitably toward the sunny uplands of the Utopian future. Buchanan is a reactionary, and therefore, can be dismissed with the wave of a hand. Should be obvious.

    The rules of the game may be unfair, but while you’re complaining about the rules, the left is beating you like a rented mule.

  151. It’s really hard to understand what Masha’s point is, other than she is a generally unhappy person who doesn’t like anyone, particularly anyone associated with authority. The evidence of Joker’s guilty is overwhelming and will come (contra what Masha says) not mainly from law enforcement but primarily from his own words (scrawled on the boat he was captured in) and from photos placing him at the scene, receipts for bomb materials, etc. So, unless (and maybe even if) Masha got her wish and Joker could be tried by a jury of twelve Chechen teenagers who are “against us” (BTW, Masha, I do not think “jury of your peers” means what you think it means) his conviction is a foregone conclusion. This will not be another OJ trial.

    The specialty of Judy Clarke (Joker’s lawyer, who by the way is in the running with Masha for “most masculine looking woman”) is not getting guilty people acquitted (something possible only in LALA land) but sparing them the death penalty. Usually she does this just by “copping a plea” for a life sentence but the case against Joker is so overwhelming that the government has no incentive to take a plea. Juries in capital cases must be “death qualified” – they must state that they are willing to impose the death penalty if it is warranted (and it’s hard to imagine a case where it would be more warranted). So basically what Judy is looking for are jurors who are willing and able to lie convincingly during jury selection and who will serve as anti-death penalty sleeper agents to ultimately sabotage the enforcement of the law. In other words, people like Masha Gessen.

    At the time, I expected law enforcement to spray Joker’s boat full of lead (and they did to some extent though they somehow missed him). Usually killing a cop is a capital offense for which no trial is warranted (as far as the police are concerned), just as rape once was in the South. And I am beginning to think that the cops have a point.

  152. …and inability to stand up to his brother.

    It’s a common stereotype of high school wrestlers that they are timid pushovers who do whatever they’re told by strong-willed and physically intimidating men; in the case of this former team captain, I guess the stereotype was completely true.

    If only the young Mr. Tsarnaev had been on the chess team or the theater club, or an editor of his school’s poetry magazine, he might have had the backbone and toughness necessary to stand up to his big meanie of an older brother.

  153. Modern sexual competition. Zero cum game?

    Megaphonics or Monophonics?

  154. Why does it take so long to get these trials conducted? It’s almost two years.

  155. @iSteveFan
    Then why doesn’t the “pre-installed crazy” activate in Israel? If it’s a matter of being in the “homeland,” why do Irish-Americans hate England more than the Irish in England do?

    The pre-installed crazy activates in the USA because the USA is a powerful nation that can have some influence on other nations. An Irishmen in Ireland can hate England all he wants, but he can never really use the Irish Republic to punish England. But in the USA, an Irishman who rises to prominence might be able to influence US policy against England. Joe Kennedy was made ambassador to the UK in 1938. And less than two years later was asked to resign because Churchill and others could not stand him. Unfortunately for Joe, the US-UK relationship was deemed more important than him.

    I imagine the same goes for Russian-Jews in Israel. If they really have a lot of Russia hatred, they could do more damage to Russia as insiders with the US establishment than in the Israeli establishment. And since the Israelis view Russia as a potential friend, where many Jews still live, I doubt they are in a hurry to anger Russia. So if you are a Russian-Jew who wants to take out a couple hundred years of revenge, the USA is the best possible place for you. Whether that is the best possible thing for the citizens of the USA is another question.

    So if you are a Russian-Jew who wants to take out a couple hundred years of revenge, the USA is the best possible place for you.

    Your posited cabalists do not exist outside your imagination.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    How about Masha Gessen? No grudges there, eh? Just a dispassionate zeal for the truth?
  156. Maybe Gessen has a man-crush. Too bad gay-conversion therapy is now banned in most places because it looks like Tsarnaev might have been able to have made a good living treating lesbians.

    Regarding the accompanying picture of her, Gessen should try one of those pencil moustaches. It wouldn’t matter if it was just grease-pencilled on, the effect would be both dashing and ironically subversive. Perfect for her. I wonder if she’s a heavy smoker?

  157. Geffen concludes with “the difficult, if not impossible, task of separating their duty of representing the community as jurors from the outrage they may feel as members of a community that was attacked, by proxy, when the bombs went off at the Boston Marathon”.

    This makes absolutely NO sense in this particular case . In a normal case, the accused criminal has usually attacked a single person and that victim (let’s call her “Jackie, for example) might be symbolically portrayed in the press to be a representative of the entire community (of women) – “the attack on Jackie is an attack on all women and a symbol of the rottenness of all white frat boys”. The jury is charged with ignoring that – they are only to judge the particulars of that case – whether the particular accused (let’s call him “Haven” ) is guilty of attacking a particular victim. Haven’s alleged attack on Jackie must NOT be understood as a personal attack on the (female) jurors or an indictment of all frat boys in order for Haven to receive a fair trial.

    But here, Joker (by his words and deeds) specifically INTENDED his attack to be an attack on the community, on ALL Americans, on ANYONE who was standing in the street that day. If the jurors were not personally hit by shrapnel from the bomb, it was only by shear luck – as far a Joker was concerned, they WERE his targets. So the only way for jurors NOT to consider themselves as being part of the community under attack is for them not to consider themselves as Americans at all. (This BTW is why the trial was not moved – there is NOWHERE in America where Joker’s attack could be understood any differently – he wasn’t trying to just attack Bostonians or Massachusetts residents but ALL Americans.) But Federal jurors must be United States citizens, so I guess the only ones who would qualify in Masha’s book are people who are US citizens but don’t consider themselves as such – maybe people who consider themselves as a part of a global or cosmopolitan elite that transcends national boundaries – maybe people like Masha herself.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "he wasn’t trying to just attack Bostonians or Massachusetts residents but ALL Americans"

    The Boston Marathon is held on Patriots' Day, the anniversary of the battles of Lexington and Concord.

    I'm also sore about those three weed dealers being ritually murdered on the tenth anniversary of 9/11.

    , @TomB
    Good informative first comment, Jack.

    Brilliant second one.

    The only thing I can think to add is that Gessen's position does make some sense ... so long as you take the position that no, the entire community does not have the right to defend itself against guys like this Chechen.

    The same way Gessen and others sharing her views obviously feel that Puti and the Russians had and have no right to defend themselves against a Khodorkovsky.

    Nor indeed, after a Khodorkovsky takes power and slaughters the living shit out of them do they have the right to hold it against the Khodorkovskys. I well remember, after growing up reading however many glowing accounts of the great, burning morality of the implacable Nazi hunters like Wiesenthal and then those in our own Justice Dept. tasked with doing such hunting, a long tsk-tsking editorial in the NY Times either when the Eastern Europeans freed themselves or the Russians saw the Bolshies fall in Moscow warning against any attempt on their part to go find and take their Gulag masters to task.

    "No no no," we were all gravely instructed, that would be unjust... The worst thing that could be done. Vengeful.

    As with so much else then, vengeance is for me but not for thee...

  158. She’s pretty much 100% projection.

    (like it’s our fault she looks so weird.)

  159. @anon
    Yes, Stalin spoke Russian with a strong non-native accent. He only had trouble with the phonetics if the language though. His grammar and vocabulary were identical to that of a smart, well-educated native. And he never employed speechwriters or ghosts.

    Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn't aristocratic. I don't have a good sense of how Khruschov talked and I don't have time for YouTube now. Brezhev and Gorbachov spoke with a southern Russian/east Ukrainian accent (those are one and the same thing). Yeltsin had a slight Urals accent. Putin's Russian is devoid of any regionalisms.

    “Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn’t aristocratic.”

    This is interesting to read. The Ulyanovs were minor nobility. The Order of St. Vladimir had been conferred upon Lenin’s father, a school administrator, and it carried hereditary noblesse with it in the manner of a number of such continental European chivalric orders. The 19th-century czarist regime followed a practice of awarding orders and decorations to civil servants of senior rank, in much the same way as had been done in Napoleonic France.

    While Lenin was thus not of the ancient Russian aristocracy, his family was nouveau-riche, recently ennobled, and he was university-educated, so it makes sense that he was brought up to use a cultivated accent – in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.
     
    Actually, the remarkable thing is that JFK never learned to speak like a proper, upper-class Bostonian of his era . Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life
  160. @Jim
    The use of the term "black" by Shakespeare or Pepys to describe someone of darker than average complexion in Britain or with black hair is hardly surprising. I wonder if either one of them ever met an actual Negro?

    “I wonder if either one of them ever met an actual Negro?” I wonder too; the description of Othello is not much like a “Moor” in the modern sense; perhaps “Moor” then meant negro? If so, what were North Africans called? “Turk” maybe?

    • Replies: @Harold
    Well, Pepys had met a negro: see my comments above.
  161. Masha Gessen looks like she was beaten with an ugly stick.

  162. Not loving this new format. Why not let it display whole posts as before? And let Steve, if he wants to, hide things below a “jump”?

    This looks cheesy–huge font and close to no text on the front page. Is the point to make us click endlessly?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Is this the mobile format you are referring to?
  163. @Steve Sailer
    For 20 pounds per year back then, you could hire a couple of lighthouse keepers.

    That raises the perennial question in libertarian economics: How do you make money off private lighthouses?

    Steve,

    Here’s Tyler Cowen on private lighthouses in The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics:

    Economists have argued that if private lighthouse owners attempted to charge ship-owners for lighthouse services, a free-rider problem would result. Yet lighthouses off the coast of nineteenth-century England were privately owned. Lighthouse owners realized that they could not charge shipowners for their services. So they didn’t try to. Instead, they sold their service to the owners and merchants of the nearby port. Port merchants who did not pay the lighthouse owners to turn on the lights had trouble attracting ships to their port. As it turns out, one of the economics instructors’ most commonly used examples of a public good that cannot be privately provided is not a good example at all.

  164. @iSteveFan
    Then why doesn’t the “pre-installed crazy” activate in Israel? If it’s a matter of being in the “homeland,” why do Irish-Americans hate England more than the Irish in England do?

    The pre-installed crazy activates in the USA because the USA is a powerful nation that can have some influence on other nations. An Irishmen in Ireland can hate England all he wants, but he can never really use the Irish Republic to punish England. But in the USA, an Irishman who rises to prominence might be able to influence US policy against England. Joe Kennedy was made ambassador to the UK in 1938. And less than two years later was asked to resign because Churchill and others could not stand him. Unfortunately for Joe, the US-UK relationship was deemed more important than him.

    I imagine the same goes for Russian-Jews in Israel. If they really have a lot of Russia hatred, they could do more damage to Russia as insiders with the US establishment than in the Israeli establishment. And since the Israelis view Russia as a potential friend, where many Jews still live, I doubt they are in a hurry to anger Russia. So if you are a Russian-Jew who wants to take out a couple hundred years of revenge, the USA is the best possible place for you. Whether that is the best possible thing for the citizens of the USA is another question.

    I have another suggestion.

    Irish people in Ireland don’t want to piss off the UK because it’s next door. Irish people in America can rant all they want, but it’s unlikely to affect anything either way–the UK is a major American ally and likely to remain so. So it’s sort of a cheap position to hold, likely because it’s unlikely to affect anything.

    Also, Irish people in Ireland feel Irish. Irish people in America don’t, so they play up their Irishness by exaggerating their feuds with the Brits.

    Jews in Russia and Israel are a different story–the ones in Russia want to stay out of trouble, and the Israelis don’t want to pick a fight with a potential ally. The American Jews (at least the tendentious ones in the media–I can’t stress enough practically none of the Jews I knew in person back in NYC were anywhere near as crazy as Masha) are safe from any repercussions, unless of course they’re stupid enough to start WW3. But Putin’s not dumb enough to do that, he wants to rule Russia, not a cold plain of radioactive glass.

    Again, Jews in Israel aren’t worried about being Jewish. But Jews in America are always afraid they’re going to be assimilated into the body politic (with some justification–the intermarriage rate is 50%, and there are quite a few non-Jews on Jdate). But they don’t like religion, because it’s right-wing. So there’s liberalism instead, which happens to dovetail nicely with some old stories Grandma told about the czar at this point in time.

    Similarly, most of the Israelis I knew were perfectly happy to bury the hatchet with Germany–they’re getting free submarines, and buying high-quality German refrigerators, and they need all the allies they can get. But American Jews love to hang around and make WW2 movies and make cheesy jokes about Germans in movies, because they aren’t afraid of pissing off the Germans.

    So, like most things, it’s multifactorial, as my dad used to say. It’s (A) does the group in question feel culturally threatened (B) does the group in question feel physically threatened and (C) are there any consequences for keeping your old hatreds…and the arrows can point in different ways.

  165. While in that extended quote about how it’s legally problematic that the jurors might feel a twinge of sympathy for the victims I momentarily forgot I was in a quote and thought I was back to Steve’s irony.


  166. While I don’t know anything about von Neumann’s grandfathers, his father was a banker with an extensive secular education who was ultimately ennobled for contributions to Austria-Hungary. While he may well have thought a lot about Judaism, it certainly wasn’t his profession.

    • Replies: @Harold
    Thanks for that information.
  167. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Borenstein explains that until recently, when Russians used the word “black,” they were referring to hair color

    Sounds like the Russian equivalent of Americans referring to people with fair hair as “blond”. But so what? I’m just not seeing how this is supposed to be sinister, of why we’re supposed to believe that Muslims cannot be white.

  168. syon- Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in the Irish imagination

    What’s with your weird obsession with the Irish? In any case you’re incorrect: Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in Irish history. Genociding people tends to do that.

  169. Not entirely sure the FBI agents involved are going to enjoy testifying nor will they be beloved by jury and press. These 2 animals could not have announced their intentions as they did on social media any more clearly if they took out an ad on the Fenway scoreboard on Sawx Opening Day. The big brother was under surveillance yet goes off into Jihadistan for several months and nobody appears to do any followup. The whole family ash no real means of support other than various forms of government assistance and nobody ever questioned them.They were both party to a triple homicide of some pot dealers who happened to be Jewish on the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and nobody seems to have made any connection to them. And despite supposedly having been in the FBI database and crosshairs we are to believe nobody in their office recognized them until the public called the Boston PD when the photos became public 2 days after the attack. Wouldn’t be shocked to see the feds try to get a plea deal in exchange for no death penalty. If this does go to trial expect the defense to try to put the feds incompetence front and center. It may not save this bag of feel matter but it’s may cover the feds in some of the contents of said bag.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Many employees of the Federal government are incompetent? I am shocked, shocked, utterly shocked to hear this.
  170. @syonredux

    The pre-installed crazy activates in the USA because the USA is a powerful nation that can have some influence on other nations.
     
    Yeah, but Britain was much more powerful than the USA in the 1860s, but that didn't stop the Irish in the USA from mounting raids on Canada (cf the Fenian Raids*) that could have caused war to break out between America and the UK

    *Between 1866 and 1871, the Fenian raids of the Fenian Brotherhood, an Irish Republican organization who were based in the United States, on British army forts, customs posts and other targets in Canada, were fought to bring pressure on Britain to withdraw from Ireland
     

    As you have noted, the raids were right after the Civil War, a war in which the Brits openly traded with the enemy (Confederacy) of the USA fed government. The US turned a blind eye toward the raids in order to tweek the Brits or at least show their displeasure towards the crown for conspiring with the South.

    After about the 3rd or 4th raid, the feds cracked down on the Fenians. But a point was made.

    American-Irish hostility to Britain is quite natural. When a powerful country treats your kin to murder, famine, rapine, and poverty; How else should one feel? Even after emigrating or after hearing such stories from parents and grandparents.

  171. This is the guy over whom teenage girls gushed “too cute to be guilty”. I can only hope that the jurors are a bit more mature.

  172. @Steve Sailer
    For 20 pounds per year back then, you could hire a couple of lighthouse keepers.

    That raises the perennial question in libertarian economics: How do you make money off private lighthouses?

    I imagine they would be maintained by insurance cartels.

  173. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.”

    Putin is the first Russian ruler since the last czar who was born and raised in one of the two capitals, i.e. who is not a provincial. Yet he’s not effete either. Furthest thing from it. Image-wise he’s a near-perfect spokesman for Russia. Yes, he’s viewed negatively by most Westerners, but that’s entirely an effect of Western media’s propaganda. He certainly hasn’t made the propagandists’ job any easier. He’s not a drunk clown like Yeltsin, nor senile like Brezhnev. And unlike Khruschev he doesn’t remind anyone of any peasants. Gorbachev has a rustic accent and affect but since he made the first looting of Russia since the Bolshevik Revolution possible, the West’s media did not capitalize on that.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Yes, he’s viewed negatively by most Westerners, but that’s entirely an effect of Western media’s propaganda.

    If the fiction pleases you, fine.
  174. As you have noted, the raids were right after the Civil War, a war in which the Brits openly traded with the enemy (Confederacy) of the USA fed government. The US turned a blind eye toward the raids in order to tweek the Brits or at least show their displeasure towards the crown for conspiring with the South.

    After about the 3rd or 4th raid, the feds cracked down on the Fenians. But a point was made.

    Back in the early and mid 20th century, American-Irish hostility to Britain was quite natural. When a powerful country treats your kin to murder, famine, rapine, and poverty; How else should one feel? And then that same country (Britain) is trying to drag your newly adopted country into wars not in America’s interest.

    I’m 2nd generation Irish. My grandparents arrived between 1910 and 1920. I’ve heard the story of a great-great uncle hung by the British unjustly. I’ve read the books about Cromwell, the uprisings of 1789, 1848, 1916, etc…. I’ve realized that there are winners and losers. My people happened to be losers. The main reason the Irish have been losers was because their land was adjacent to one of the greatest powers in world history.

    And they also failed surrender completely by changing their religion (as the Scots and Welsh did) and become the toadies for more empire building. There is something noble about that.

    Personally, I don’t hate the Brits. I’m sure most Americans of Irish heritage feel the same way. It all happened a long time ago. Being aware and feeling hatred are very different things.

  175. Yeah, but Britain was much more powerful than the USA in the 1860s, but that didn’t stop the Irish in the USA from mounting raids on Canada (cf the Fenian Raids*) that could have caused war to break out between America and the UK

    They wanted a war or at least some kind of conflict between the US and UK that would weaken the British – they’d have to send troops to Canada, which was not well protected – giving Irish rebels an opportunity at home.

    Emigre populations are well known for their nationalist extremism but it is not just limited to those in the powerful USA. In his book on Yugoslavia Misha Glenny mentioned that some of the most militant nationalists (I think mainly on the Croat side) came from the diaspora in Canada and, perhaps, Australia and Germany. Canada’s Ukrainian community has always been very nationalistic.

    • Replies: @HA
    " In his book on Yugoslavia Misha Glenny mentioned that some of the most militant nationalists (I think mainly on the Croat side)

    Yeah, big surprise. Misha Glenny's first wife is Serbian (or part-Serbian -- here's his son's LI page). Anything he says about Croats or Slovenes should be pretty much discarded, though I suspect the hate mail he got from nationalist Serbs encouraged him to fancy himself with the illusion of objectivity.

    It's like the NPR and NYT reporters who think the hate-mail they get from even crazier leftists, along with what they get from the Fox-News crowd, is a sign that they are some kind of centrists.

  176. Part of the problem in mediating between American and Russian understandings of difference is that Americans are so accustomed to seeing race as the default category for otherness that we take its universality for granted. Of course, decades of post-structuralist and post-colonial studies have argued this very point, but often in prose whose god-awfulness gives the general public a free pass from engaging with it.

    That’s right professor. The reason Isaac Newton’s “Principia Mathematica” has never taken hold is that it was written in turgid Latin.

  177. @manton
    Not loving this new format. Why not let it display whole posts as before? And let Steve, if he wants to, hide things below a "jump"?

    This looks cheesy--huge font and close to no text on the front page. Is the point to make us click endlessly?

    Is this the mobile format you are referring to?

  178. @Jack D
    Geffen concludes with "the difficult, if not impossible, task of separating their duty of representing the community as jurors from the outrage they may feel as members of a community that was attacked, by proxy, when the bombs went off at the Boston Marathon".

    This makes absolutely NO sense in this particular case . In a normal case, the accused criminal has usually attacked a single person and that victim (let's call her "Jackie, for example) might be symbolically portrayed in the press to be a representative of the entire community (of women) - "the attack on Jackie is an attack on all women and a symbol of the rottenness of all white frat boys". The jury is charged with ignoring that - they are only to judge the particulars of that case - whether the particular accused (let's call him "Haven" ) is guilty of attacking a particular victim. Haven's alleged attack on Jackie must NOT be understood as a personal attack on the (female) jurors or an indictment of all frat boys in order for Haven to receive a fair trial.

    But here, Joker (by his words and deeds) specifically INTENDED his attack to be an attack on the community, on ALL Americans, on ANYONE who was standing in the street that day. If the jurors were not personally hit by shrapnel from the bomb, it was only by shear luck - as far a Joker was concerned, they WERE his targets. So the only way for jurors NOT to consider themselves as being part of the community under attack is for them not to consider themselves as Americans at all. (This BTW is why the trial was not moved - there is NOWHERE in America where Joker's attack could be understood any differently - he wasn't trying to just attack Bostonians or Massachusetts residents but ALL Americans.) But Federal jurors must be United States citizens, so I guess the only ones who would qualify in Masha's book are people who are US citizens but don't consider themselves as such - maybe people who consider themselves as a part of a global or cosmopolitan elite that transcends national boundaries - maybe people like Masha herself.

    “he wasn’t trying to just attack Bostonians or Massachusetts residents but ALL Americans”

    The Boston Marathon is held on Patriots’ Day, the anniversary of the battles of Lexington and Concord.

    I’m also sore about those three weed dealers being ritually murdered on the tenth anniversary of 9/11.

  179. @Calogero
    I really don't know where you're getting this nonsense about Irish-Americans hating England. I am in my mid 40s and have known hundreds of Irish-Americans in my lifetime. I have yet to meet one who hates either the English or American WASPs. Maybe a hundred years ago they did, but that was a long time ago. The only people I've heard them criticize were blacks, but then my people feel the same way. I can't speak for the Irish outside of America as I've known very few if them. As for Masha Gessen, she is just one of the worst of the hate the West crowd. She sickens me physically and mentally.

    Hating England wasn’t a big thing during my 12 years of Catholic school education.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Nor mine either, growing up in Davenport, Iowa. Some of my cousins in Chicago picked up some IRA propaganda, and absorbed it, somewhere along the line.
    , @dearieme
    Hating Protestants was a substantial part of the Roman Catholic primary education of a cousin of mine in England. One advantage of being from a family that's a mixed bag of Protestants, Papists, and atheists, is that I am reasonably resistant to sentimental yarns about the behaviour of the faithful.
  180. @DCThrowback
    that was fascinating. holy cow. thanks for this L7s.

    Not fascinating. Sad. McGowan is sick and I mean that literally. Certain people cannot process the enormity of certain earthshaking events and their way of dealing with it is denial. Their minds just shut down. That was not a guy who was just like you a minute ago (who could have BEEN you), there on a pleasant afternoon to see a race and now you see him on TV with his legs blown to smithereens and his life will never be the same again. No, no, no, I deny that that is possible. He must just be a Hollywood actor and the blood is just ketchup. Just like those towers that the CIA blew up and those fake gas chambers at Auschwitz. All Hollywood special effects or else what the hell kind of world do we live in where this sh*t goes on, where little innocent children bleed to death and young women have their legs torn off, where Germans build efficient factories for turning millions of people into ashes? This nightmare can’t be real. Sorry, Dave, it’s all too real in this crazy world of ours.

  181. @Uptown Resident
    The picture of Stalin is shocking. I'd never seen a young Stalin.

    What's shocking is that he was extremely good looking.

    I googled "Stalin was handsome" to confirm that other women have had this same thought.

    I presumed it was retouched to clear up the smallpox scars, but that’s only fair.

  182. @anon
    "Obviously, historical discrimination in Moscow has kept everybody from the Caucasus or south of the Caucasus from ever ascending high in Moscow."

    One of the most inportant people in Russian government right now is a guy named Surkov. His family history is similar to Barry O's - abandoned by his dark, passionate, exotic (Chechen) biofather almost at birth, then raised entirely by his lily-white (Russian) mother and her family.

    And Bill Harder doppelganger!

  183. Steve,

    It was like that on my PC for a while, but now it’s back to the way it was. Hopefully, it was just a glitch.

  184. I think Gessen’s comment might be the front-lash that Steve has referred to. When I read between the lines, what I think she is trying to say is don’t turn Tsnaraev into the poster boy for Russian anti-American hate, something in which she has had a part in stirring up.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    She's promoting her upcoming book about the Bomb Brothers.
  185. @Art Deco
    So if you are a Russian-Jew who wants to take out a couple hundred years of revenge, the USA is the best possible place for you.
    --
    Your posited cabalists do not exist outside your imagination.

    How about Masha Gessen? No grudges there, eh? Just a dispassionate zeal for the truth?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    How about Masha Gessen? No grudges there, eh? Just a dispassionate zeal for the truth?
    --
    1. Unattractive, makes the worst of her assets.

    2. A subject for the question: "what is the function of intellectuals, but to tell us that things are not as ordinary people perceive them". No candy (or thumbsucking magazine articles) discussing the dry factual business re the activities of the Tsarnaev brothers. Some rococo argument transferring the blame from the perpetrators to some socially approved abstract target is a must. Not sure how long these games have been played, but it was an established practice at the time of the Kennedy Assassination. Broad needs a normal job (and a better haircut).
  186. That sounds plausible

    Tell it to Masha and the others who can’t seem to let it go.

  187. @Bugg
    Not entirely sure the FBI agents involved are going to enjoy testifying nor will they be beloved by jury and press. These 2 animals could not have announced their intentions as they did on social media any more clearly if they took out an ad on the Fenway scoreboard on Sawx Opening Day. The big brother was under surveillance yet goes off into Jihadistan for several months and nobody appears to do any followup. The whole family ash no real means of support other than various forms of government assistance and nobody ever questioned them.They were both party to a triple homicide of some pot dealers who happened to be Jewish on the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and nobody seems to have made any connection to them. And despite supposedly having been in the FBI database and crosshairs we are to believe nobody in their office recognized them until the public called the Boston PD when the photos became public 2 days after the attack. Wouldn't be shocked to see the feds try to get a plea deal in exchange for no death penalty. If this does go to trial expect the defense to try to put the feds incompetence front and center. It may not save this bag of feel matter but it's may cover the feds in some of the contents of said bag.

    Many employees of the Federal government are incompetent? I am shocked, shocked, utterly shocked to hear this.

  188. @Prof. Woland
    I think Gessen's comment might be the front-lash that Steve has referred to. When I read between the lines, what I think she is trying to say is don't turn Tsnaraev into the poster boy for Russian anti-American hate, something in which she has had a part in stirring up.

    She’s promoting her upcoming book about the Bomb Brothers.

  189. Native Russian speaker here. Russians, to my knowledge, have not used the word “черный” (chyorni) to refer to people of dark colored hair in modern times (say after 1980). This word is used for black people of African descent. I have also never heard the word “темнокожий” (dark skinned) used in referring to a black person, or any person at all.

  190. I must admit that one of the things that I like about Obama (after suffering through 8 years of George W butchering the English language) is the fact that he speaks well.

    Agree, but one of the odd things about Obama is that he makes classic errors in word use that surprise me in a Harvard-educated lawyer and alleged writer. Words I’ve heard him use incorrectly include “fulsome,” “nonplussed,” “enormity,” “bemused,” and, of course, “literally.” A lot of people use these words incorrectly but you’d think someone who prides himself on reading a lot and writing books would be sensitive to their proper meaning.

  191. I’m not going to try to figure out how people here went from Masha Gessen to the Fenian Raids. Is it because Masha Gessen is a passionate collector of US Civil War memorabilia?

    • Replies: @IBC

    I’m not going to try to figure out how people here went from Masha Gessen to the Fenian Raids. Is it because Masha Gessen is a passionate collector of US Civil War memorabilia?

     

    Actually, she's a Civil War reenactor and belongs to a zouave unit mustering out of Moscow. On a local soccer field within sight of the Kremlin, they stage mock battles against the pretend forces of Putin's medieval "White Horde" and charge admission to raise money for an international adoption charity and global peace studies.
  192. @Matra
    Yeah, but Britain was much more powerful than the USA in the 1860s, but that didn’t stop the Irish in the USA from mounting raids on Canada (cf the Fenian Raids*) that could have caused war to break out between America and the UK

    They wanted a war or at least some kind of conflict between the US and UK that would weaken the British - they'd have to send troops to Canada, which was not well protected - giving Irish rebels an opportunity at home.

    Emigre populations are well known for their nationalist extremism but it is not just limited to those in the powerful USA. In his book on Yugoslavia Misha Glenny mentioned that some of the most militant nationalists (I think mainly on the Croat side) came from the diaspora in Canada and, perhaps, Australia and Germany. Canada's Ukrainian community has always been very nationalistic.

    ” In his book on Yugoslavia Misha Glenny mentioned that some of the most militant nationalists (I think mainly on the Croat side)

    Yeah, big surprise. Misha Glenny’s first wife is Serbian (or part-Serbian — here’s his son’s LI page). Anything he says about Croats or Slovenes should be pretty much discarded, though I suspect the hate mail he got from nationalist Serbs encouraged him to fancy himself with the illusion of objectivity.

    It’s like the NPR and NYT reporters who think the hate-mail they get from even crazier leftists, along with what they get from the Fox-News crowd, is a sign that they are some kind of centrists.

    • Replies: @Matra
    Settle down. It is all irrelevant to my point. (And the bit about being mostly Croats was from my memory but if true hardly surprising given that Croats were the most upset in 1991 by the Yugoslav status quo).

    The point is that even outside of the powerful US there are diaspora populations that include ethnic activists with an exaggerated sense of nationalism towards their, or their ancestors', homeland. (Though it is only in Australia that Aussie Serbs and Croats draped in flags have started major brawls at tennis matches).

    In the case of Gessen it is probably more the homosexual thing than the Jewish thing. Which brings up the all important question: Where does she stand on Israel/Palestine?

  193. @Anonymous

    By the way, Borenstein explains that until recently, when Russians used the word “black,” they were referring to hair color.
     
    This was often the case in most places in the past. For example, the English surnames "Black" and "Blackman" derive from the dark or black haired ancestor of the surname. Eric the Red was named so not because he was an Indian but because he had red hair. Etc.

    What about the people whose last name is Green?

    I have read that in the 1300’s or so when it became the custom for the English to give themselves last names, when the last name was a color it would sometimes be because of hair or complexion and sometimes because of the color of the clothing they habitually wore. Many people only had one suit of clothes in those days. If your clothes were green, then….

    When I was about 11 years old, my young friends liked to make prank calls to people who had a color for their last name. “Hello,” they would say, “is this Mr. Brown?”

    “No, it is Mr. Green,” would come the reply.

    Then they would say, “Sorry, I have the wrong color.”

    They thought it was funny.

  194. @Jeff Albertson
    I don't get how the kid is "obviously guilty"; remember the first photo of him, head up with backwards white hat, smiling, no shades. didn't really look like someone on the way to commit mayhem, unlike his brother. I still suspect the whole thing was security theater gone horribly bad, and the brothers were patsies.

    On a lighter note, speaking of the eXile; anybody know what happened to Ames? bound and gagged in Omydar's basement?

    Joker is a psychopath, gifted with the ability to compartmentalize. When he was with his brother he was a fiery Muslim fundamentalist and stone cold killer. With his dope smoking buddies at college he was a regular stoner dude. He went back to classes after the bombing as if nothing had happened. If he was just some kind of “patsy” he would have looked nervous in the photos, instead of unnaturally calm and smiling.

  195. @Anonymous
    @Anon comment 4
    Why do European Jews support Muslim immigration to Europe?


    In order to dilute the European gene pool.

    Because turning Europe into Africa meets Pakistan is so obviously good for Jews. Jews are well known for their affinity with Islamabad and Cameroon. Both deli hotspots.

    Or, there is an enourmous amount of loot to be made from the national down to the local level of mass third world immigration into the West. And short term thinking and gain coupled with post Chistian volk marxism one world utopian dogma is nearly unbeatable. Graft plus a mixture of Christs and Karls messages.

  196. I’m half Irish and should hate Brits but come on. Shakespear and Churchill and Dr. Who and the Who and James Bond and Patrick Mcgoohan and the Avengers and the Clash. Ok the Spice Girls there you have it.

    If Fox News is the home of the hot bimbo news girl, then the Times is home to … Pee Wee Hermans younger brother?

  197. @Uptown Resident
    The picture of Stalin is shocking. I'd never seen a young Stalin.

    What's shocking is that he was extremely good looking.

    I googled "Stalin was handsome" to confirm that other women have had this same thought.

    He was also 5′ 4″. Even Truman, a fellow manlet himself at 5′ 7″, called him “a little squirt”.

  198. @HA
    " In his book on Yugoslavia Misha Glenny mentioned that some of the most militant nationalists (I think mainly on the Croat side)

    Yeah, big surprise. Misha Glenny's first wife is Serbian (or part-Serbian -- here's his son's LI page). Anything he says about Croats or Slovenes should be pretty much discarded, though I suspect the hate mail he got from nationalist Serbs encouraged him to fancy himself with the illusion of objectivity.

    It's like the NPR and NYT reporters who think the hate-mail they get from even crazier leftists, along with what they get from the Fox-News crowd, is a sign that they are some kind of centrists.

    Settle down. It is all irrelevant to my point. (And the bit about being mostly Croats was from my memory but if true hardly surprising given that Croats were the most upset in 1991 by the Yugoslav status quo).

    The point is that even outside of the powerful US there are diaspora populations that include ethnic activists with an exaggerated sense of nationalism towards their, or their ancestors’, homeland. (Though it is only in Australia that Aussie Serbs and Croats draped in flags have started major brawls at tennis matches).

    In the case of Gessen it is probably more the homosexual thing than the Jewish thing. Which brings up the all important question: Where does she stand on Israel/Palestine?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Where does she stand on Israel/Palestine?
     
    She doesn't. She squats.
    , @HA
    "It is all irrelevant to my point.

    On the contrary, for some peculiar reason, the fall of Yugoslavia is like Kevin Bacon in that it is only a few degrees of separation or less from nearly everything that goes in this site. Therefore, to the extent that the smoke that Glenny blew so copiously continues to waft through the cracks, fanning it away is a worthwhile endeavor. Finally, you should be able to recognize that that there is a pointed difference between being the "most upset" and being the "most militant nationalists".
  199. @LKM
    @Harold
    While I don't know anything about von Neumann's grandfathers, his father was a banker with an extensive secular education who was ultimately ennobled for contributions to Austria-Hungary. While he may well have thought a lot about Judaism, it certainly wasn't his profession.

    Thanks for that information.

  200. Masha Gesson looks like Joan Baez.

  201. @dearieme
    "I wonder if either one of them ever met an actual Negro?" I wonder too; the description of Othello is not much like a "Moor" in the modern sense; perhaps "Moor" then meant negro? If so, what were North Africans called? "Turk" maybe?

    Well, Pepys had met a negro: see my comments above.

  202. In response to jack ds criticism of dave McGowan work on the boston marathon bombings Calling him “sad ” doesn’t answer some of the legitimate questions he raises.how does a pressure cooker bomb with the power to rip a man’s leg clean off not leave a single tear in the banner 5 feet behind him?Eye witness accounts of “limbs everywhere ” and “piles of arms and legs but in not one the hundreds of pictures taken seconds after is even one severed limb visible.theres the double amputee on the ground but his legs are nowhere to be found.

    Look I’m not saying McGowan or anyone knows what happened that day but what the mainstream press described was not in evidence of the hundreds of pictures.look into carlos arredondo the Hispanic hero in the cowboy hat.he describes all the multinational flags being torn by the blast from the poles this is 100 percent provably false.
    If nothing else I’m glad people are skeptical of the media since the media has abdicated it’s role as watchdog.we should be skeptical of conspiratorial thinking but how many of us who dismiss it out of hand have spent even five minutes actually looking at the scene with our own eyes.
    we know the media has been deceptive on so many occasions we should instinctively look for ourselves as steve did with uva!

  203. I’m not going to try to figure out how people here went from Masha Gessen to the Fenian Raids.

    Syon and his peculiar fixation with the Irish, comment 26. I assume he’s just squirting ink.

  204. @Anonymous
    I remember Brezhnev with gray hair. Impressive, full, dark eyebrows though. Stalin had an impressive, full, dark mustache. Imagine a leader with Stalin's 'stache and Brezhnev's 'brows. That'd be really something.

    Imagine a leader with Stalin’s ‘stache and Brezhnev’s ‘brows. That’d be really something.

    It’d be one mean Scrubbing Bubble, that’s for damn sure.

  205. I’m trying hard to appreciate why Mr. Sailer included the picture of Ms. Gessen, but I’m not sure I get it. Maybe it’s because I’m just blonde. I can’t imagine that his point was anything as silly as just to mock her appearance. Perhaps you dear fellow readers could share your own interpretations?

    But if I compare the pictures of Mr. Tsarnaev and Ms. Gessen, it seems Masha looks darker than Dzhokhar. So is she black too? Does that mean that we fellow children of Abraham count as black?

    • Replies: @anon
    "I can’t imagine that his point was anything as silly as just to mock her appearance.

    The saying "don't judge a book by its cover" is, for the most part, wrong about books and about life in general. Evil is often ugly.
  206. “Gary in Texas says:

    Masha Gesson looks like Joan Baez.”

    If Joan Baez were ugly.

  207. @Matra
    Settle down. It is all irrelevant to my point. (And the bit about being mostly Croats was from my memory but if true hardly surprising given that Croats were the most upset in 1991 by the Yugoslav status quo).

    The point is that even outside of the powerful US there are diaspora populations that include ethnic activists with an exaggerated sense of nationalism towards their, or their ancestors', homeland. (Though it is only in Australia that Aussie Serbs and Croats draped in flags have started major brawls at tennis matches).

    In the case of Gessen it is probably more the homosexual thing than the Jewish thing. Which brings up the all important question: Where does she stand on Israel/Palestine?

    Where does she stand on Israel/Palestine?

    She doesn’t. She squats.

  208. @syonredux

    As for seeming pale in comparison, the Arab and Turkish slave traders used to make runs up north to capture pale skinned beauties from the Caucasus. Circassian women being the most valuable slaves of all time. Every Arab I know, claims to have a Circassian grandmother along the lines of the Cherokee princess in America.
     
    In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence pretends to a Circassian (i.e., descended from people from the Caucasus) when a Turkish officer (played by Jose Ferrer) remarks on his blue eyes.


    Of course, light eyes are not exactly unheard of among Turks (cf Kemal Ataturk)

    Yes, Effendi.

  209. @Uptown Resident
    The picture of Stalin is shocking. I'd never seen a young Stalin.

    What's shocking is that he was extremely good looking.

    I googled "Stalin was handsome" to confirm that other women have had this same thought.

    Saddam Hussein was extremely good looking when he was young too. So manly, with that thick moustache.

  210. Masha Gessen calls Dzhokhar Tsarnaev black. But no matter the color, he and his Chechen family are without a doubt Caucasians.

    I like that the picture of the dashing young Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili was added. Together with the photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev we’ve got a great start to a Tiger Beat Calendar featuring the hottest heartbreaking young mass-murderers.

  211. By the way, does the Commonwealth still have on the books that quaint old statute which allowed female jurors to opt out of trials that might “embarrass” them?

    Or did that bite the dust with SCOTUS’s 14th-Amendment-as-backdoor-ERA rulings?

  212. Masha Gessen is yet another poisonous feature – not a bug – of what John Derbyshire calls “the multicultural state” which forces us to pay for her “expertise.”

  213. @Matra
    Settle down. It is all irrelevant to my point. (And the bit about being mostly Croats was from my memory but if true hardly surprising given that Croats were the most upset in 1991 by the Yugoslav status quo).

    The point is that even outside of the powerful US there are diaspora populations that include ethnic activists with an exaggerated sense of nationalism towards their, or their ancestors', homeland. (Though it is only in Australia that Aussie Serbs and Croats draped in flags have started major brawls at tennis matches).

    In the case of Gessen it is probably more the homosexual thing than the Jewish thing. Which brings up the all important question: Where does she stand on Israel/Palestine?

    “It is all irrelevant to my point.

    On the contrary, for some peculiar reason, the fall of Yugoslavia is like Kevin Bacon in that it is only a few degrees of separation or less from nearly everything that goes in this site. Therefore, to the extent that the smoke that Glenny blew so copiously continues to waft through the cracks, fanning it away is a worthwhile endeavor. Finally, you should be able to recognize that that there is a pointed difference between being the “most upset” and being the “most militant nationalists”.

  214. “Because turning Europe into Africa meets Pakistan is so obviously good for Jews. Jews are well known for their affinity with Islamabad and Cameroon. Both deli hotspots.”

    Oh, right. The traditional Euro stock is all behind this, having demonstrated a much greater affinity with Islamabad and Cameroon.

  215. @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    I'm trying hard to appreciate why Mr. Sailer included the picture of Ms. Gessen, but I'm not sure I get it. Maybe it's because I'm just blonde. I can't imagine that his point was anything as silly as just to mock her appearance. Perhaps you dear fellow readers could share your own interpretations?

    But if I compare the pictures of Mr. Tsarnaev and Ms. Gessen, it seems Masha looks darker than Dzhokhar. So is she black too? Does that mean that we fellow children of Abraham count as black?

    “I can’t imagine that his point was anything as silly as just to mock her appearance.

    The saying “don’t judge a book by its cover” is, for the most part, wrong about books and about life in general. Evil is often ugly.

  216. @syonredux

    The pre-installed crazy activates in the USA because the USA is a powerful nation that can have some influence on other nations.
     
    Yeah, but Britain was much more powerful than the USA in the 1860s, but that didn't stop the Irish in the USA from mounting raids on Canada (cf the Fenian Raids*) that could have caused war to break out between America and the UK

    *Between 1866 and 1871, the Fenian raids of the Fenian Brotherhood, an Irish Republican organization who were based in the United States, on British army forts, customs posts and other targets in Canada, were fought to bring pressure on Britain to withdraw from Ireland
     

    You set off a rash of comments about the Fenian raids. Are you and the other commenters aware that Canada did not become an independent country with that name until 1867? The Fenians were striking at the nearest British territory they could attack.

  217. 193: your last two sentences are false and bizarre.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    How so, 5371? Are you asserting that ASF has, in fact, heard the word “темнокожий” (dark skinned) used in referring to a black person, and that черний is not used to refer to black people? (What we in America mean by black people when I say black people, I mean?)
  218. Canada didn’t become independent until 1926 or 1931 (take your pick).

  219. Male and female NYT columnists seem to express their narcissism in different ways. While women write articles about something in their personal lives has world-shaking repercussions, men make themselves important by writing about faraway places. It looks like lesbians combine these approaches.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    While women write articles about something in their personal lives has world-shaking repercussions, men make themselves important by writing about faraway places. It looks like lesbians combine these approaches.

    Writing a foreign affairs column is 'narcissistic'? Okey doke.
  220. @5371
    193: your last two sentences are false and bizarre.

    How so, 5371? Are you asserting that ASF has, in fact, heard the word “темнокожий” (dark skinned) used in referring to a black person, and that черний is not used to refer to black people? (What we in America mean by black people when I say black people, I mean?)

  221. @Jefferson
    "I earlier noted Kipling’s quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it’s fullest flowering among Irish-Americans."

    There is an episode of "Burn Notice" where Fiona's Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.

    At the time of the Falklands War, my Irish aunt and my German uncle, along with me, were watching TV news concerning the Falklands. My aunt said, “Aren’t the British the bad guys?” My uncle said something like, “Maybe, I don’t know.” My aunt replied, “The British are always the bad guys!”

  222. @Steve Sailer
    Hating England wasn't a big thing during my 12 years of Catholic school education.

    Nor mine either, growing up in Davenport, Iowa. Some of my cousins in Chicago picked up some IRA propaganda, and absorbed it, somewhere along the line.

  223. @Crawfurdmuir
    "Lenin spoke with a now-dead aristocratic accent (Frenchified Rs and a specific intonation) even though he wasn’t aristocratic."

    This is interesting to read. The Ulyanovs were minor nobility. The Order of St. Vladimir had been conferred upon Lenin's father, a school administrator, and it carried hereditary noblesse with it in the manner of a number of such continental European chivalric orders. The 19th-century czarist regime followed a practice of awarding orders and decorations to civil servants of senior rank, in much the same way as had been done in Napoleonic France.

    While Lenin was thus not of the ancient Russian aristocracy, his family was nouveau-riche, recently ennobled, and he was university-educated, so it makes sense that he was brought up to use a cultivated accent - in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.

    in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.

    Actually, the remarkable thing is that JFK never learned to speak like a proper, upper-class Bostonian of his era . Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life
     
    Not really. Kennedy's accent was not standard Boston working class either, there was something very affected about the way he spoke. Listen to Bill Bratton if you want to hear a real working class Boston accent. Try this between 1:30 and 1:40 or around 2:07

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkBEFRkE7Vc
    , @Anonymous
    JFK had a middle/upper-middle class Boston accent. Few people had an exaggerated upper class Bostonian accent by the mid-20th century.
  224. @Jack D
    Geffen concludes with "the difficult, if not impossible, task of separating their duty of representing the community as jurors from the outrage they may feel as members of a community that was attacked, by proxy, when the bombs went off at the Boston Marathon".

    This makes absolutely NO sense in this particular case . In a normal case, the accused criminal has usually attacked a single person and that victim (let's call her "Jackie, for example) might be symbolically portrayed in the press to be a representative of the entire community (of women) - "the attack on Jackie is an attack on all women and a symbol of the rottenness of all white frat boys". The jury is charged with ignoring that - they are only to judge the particulars of that case - whether the particular accused (let's call him "Haven" ) is guilty of attacking a particular victim. Haven's alleged attack on Jackie must NOT be understood as a personal attack on the (female) jurors or an indictment of all frat boys in order for Haven to receive a fair trial.

    But here, Joker (by his words and deeds) specifically INTENDED his attack to be an attack on the community, on ALL Americans, on ANYONE who was standing in the street that day. If the jurors were not personally hit by shrapnel from the bomb, it was only by shear luck - as far a Joker was concerned, they WERE his targets. So the only way for jurors NOT to consider themselves as being part of the community under attack is for them not to consider themselves as Americans at all. (This BTW is why the trial was not moved - there is NOWHERE in America where Joker's attack could be understood any differently - he wasn't trying to just attack Bostonians or Massachusetts residents but ALL Americans.) But Federal jurors must be United States citizens, so I guess the only ones who would qualify in Masha's book are people who are US citizens but don't consider themselves as such - maybe people who consider themselves as a part of a global or cosmopolitan elite that transcends national boundaries - maybe people like Masha herself.

    Good informative first comment, Jack.

    Brilliant second one.

    The only thing I can think to add is that Gessen’s position does make some sense … so long as you take the position that no, the entire community does not have the right to defend itself against guys like this Chechen.

    The same way Gessen and others sharing her views obviously feel that Puti and the Russians had and have no right to defend themselves against a Khodorkovsky.

    Nor indeed, after a Khodorkovsky takes power and slaughters the living shit out of them do they have the right to hold it against the Khodorkovskys. I well remember, after growing up reading however many glowing accounts of the great, burning morality of the implacable Nazi hunters like Wiesenthal and then those in our own Justice Dept. tasked with doing such hunting, a long tsk-tsking editorial in the NY Times either when the Eastern Europeans freed themselves or the Russians saw the Bolshies fall in Moscow warning against any attempt on their part to go find and take their Gulag masters to task.

    “No no no,” we were all gravely instructed, that would be unjust… The worst thing that could be done. Vengeful.

    As with so much else then, vengeance is for me but not for thee…

  225. RE: My “Irish Obsession,”

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it’s hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and “Irish-Americans”:

    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard’s student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen’s doctrine of “American Pluralism,” the promulgation of the obscenity that is “dual citizenship”**

    Irish: “Irish-Americans,” the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the ’70s and ’80s, etc

    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming “Help Wanted–No Irish Need Apply!” No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, “No Irish Need Apply,” purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish–on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim’s right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) “virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it.”[4]

    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim’s loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

    • Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    RE: My “Irish Obsession,”

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it’s hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.
     

    Bwahahahha -- did some guy from Southie make you look like an over educated ass in a bar and then steal your girlfriend? It's like you're Whiskey, but instead of "chicks, man it's "the Irish, man."

    Christ - you'd almost think that the Irish were a poorly assimilated ethnic minority overrepresented in government, academia, and the media while at the same time aggressively pushing an agenda hostile to their host country.

    Its the Irish man - they're f*ing up everything! They ruined Boston. They're building landing strips in New Mexico for gay martians. Do you know what the Irish are doing to the soil? You know how I know? Wikipedia, Man.

    Feel my powerful wiki block quotes you Mick sons of bitches. You thinks you're so cool with your Guinness, Dropkick Murphys and Canada invading ways. No one takes syon's parking space. NO ONE!

    , @TomB
    It's interesting how Afroyim sort of guts the idea of treason, colloquially speaking at least, isn't it?

    I mean, if one can go and become a citizen of another country and stay a dual citizen of the U.S. until one renounces it, or indeed even consciously but secretly renounced it when they become a citizen of another country or even before, well, intellectually speaking at least, how can they therefrom be said to be engaged in treasonous behavior towards the U.S.? "Oh, I renounced by allegiance to the U.S. years ago," it seems to me they are free and entirely consistent to say, "if the U.S. is so stupid as to not expressly require me to maintain that as a condition of granting me a job with it, or a security clearance, or whatever, well that's its problem and laws and regulations. I was just serving another country who I felt I owed my sole allegiance to..."

    And they say that the Courts only interpret the law and don't make it...

    , @Anonymous
    The Famine was "engineered" in a similar fashion as the major famines in the USSR or PRC: centralization of wealth. Centralization of wealth via private sector rent-seeking in the former, and public sector rent-seeking in the latter.
    , @Anonymous
    You could analogize this to virtually every ethnic or national group. American Jews are similar to the Irish and every other ethnic or national groups in some respects, but they are different in other respects in terms of their experience, collective memory and behavior.
    , @Brutusale
    Don't bother, Syon, they've worked to hard for their illusions just to throw them all away!

    My Catholic elementary/junior high school had NINE non-Irish students while I was there. Given the obnoxious nature of the standard Boston mick and that I, one of the fat kids and raised by parents who valued courtesy, didn't have the easiest time...until the 7th grade; whiskers and strangely powerful muscles emerged over the summer. I spent a little time busting up the worst loudmouthed punks in gym class, which back in the 60s was semi-organized mayhem. The insults petered away, and I noticed that, for all their chattering, the only real one-on-one fights I had were with two pretty tough Italian kids from the neighborhood. The Irish, like the hyenas, only attack in packs.

    What permanently set me apart, though, was something I did the spring of 8th grade. The school allowed us to not wear our uniforms on March 17 if we came to school wearing green. I had already been reading history books outside of the school curriculum, and I went to school that day wearing an orange sweater. Most of my classmates didn't get the meaning, but the nuns sure did. I was sent to the principal's office (we're talking about a parish where the priests were named Murphy, Sullivan and Walsh), and I think I would have been sent me home if I weren't one of the best students in the school, but they relented. They even let me wear the sweater. To this day I wear orange on St. Paddy's Day. Some people look at me askance, but few comment.

    I have to thank my mom for this, as she felt excluded by the local Irish Catholics and found friends who were Jewish and WASP. She clued me in on the William of Orange and the significance of the color orange. She was also the one who said, after I complained about Irish classmates, "Don't listen to them. Just remember that your ancestors ruled half the known world, while their's don't even rule their own island!"

    Which is the whole problem with Irish-Americans and the huge chip on their collective shoulder. Those Six Counties are a permanent splinter in their collective psyche.

    , @Ivy
    re domestic help: at one time, maids were referred to as Bridgets, since so many were Irish.
  226. @syonredux
    Quite true, but I've noticed that the the Irish prefer to dilate only on certain tragedies; for example, Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in the Irish imagination:

    Ireland
    Charles Carlton, Going to the Wars (1992)
    Petty's 1672 estimate of dead in Ireland, covering 10/1641-10/1653:
    Protestants d. by war, dis., malnu.: 112,000, incl. 37,000 massacred at outbreak. Carlton says that 37,000 is exaggeration by factor of 9 or 10.
    Catholic d.: 504,000
    Total: 618,000 [sic.]
    Fuller, A Military History of the Western World, v.2 (1955): 500,000
    R.F. Foster, Modern Ireland 1600-1972 (1988)
    Irish population decline from 2.0M (ca. 1640) to 1.7M (1672) [i.e.: 300,000]
    1641: 4,000 k. in Ulster
    Pitirim Sorokin:
    The Sociology of Revolution (1967): 100,000 to 200,000 Irish massacred, 1651
    Social and Cultural Dynamics, vol.3: 5,500 battle losses, 1649-52
    Hirst, Authority & Conflict: England, 1603-1658 (1986): Ulster rebellion, 1641: 4,000 Protestants k. immediately + 8,000 refugees died in winter.
    Morgan, Oxford History of Britain: Ulster rebellion, 1641: 3,000 Protestants k.
     
    And I've run into more than a few Irish academics who grow positively livid at the mention of Spenser:

    IREN. I suppose that the chief cause of bringing in the Irish language amongst them was specially their fostering and marrying with the Irish, the which are two most dangerous infections. For, first, the child that sucketh the milk of the nurse must of necessity learn his first speech of her, the which being the first inured >> note 11 to his tongue, is ever after most pleasing unto him, insomuch as, though he afterwards be taught English, yet the smack of the first will always abide with him; and not only of the speech, but also of the manners and conditions. For, besides that young children be like apes, which will affect and imitate what they see done before them, especially by their nurses whom they love so well, they moreover draw into themselves together with their suck even the nature and disposition of their nurses. For the mind followeth much the temperature >> note 12 of the body, and also the words are the image of the mind; so as they proceeding from the mind, the mind must needs be affected with the words; so that, the speech being Irish, the heart must needs be Irish, for out of the abundance of the heart the tongue speaketh. The next is the marrying with the Irish, which how dangerous a thing it is in all commonwealths appeareth to every simplest sense. And though some great ones have perhaps used such matches with their vassals, and have of them nevertheless raised worthy issue, as Telamon >> note 13 did with Tecmessa, Alexander the Great with Roxana, and Julius Caesar with Cleopatra, yet the example is so perilous as it is not to be adventured. For instead of those few good I could count unto them infinite many evil. And, indeed, how can such matching succeed well, seeing that commonly the child taketh most of his nature of the mother, besides speech, manners, and inclination, which are (for the most part) agreeable to the conditions of their mothers? For by them they are first framed and fashioned, so as what they receive once from them they will hardly ever after forego. Therefore are those evil customs of fostering and marrying with Irish most carefully to be restrained, for of those two the third evil, that is, the custom of language, which I spake of, chiefly proceedeth.
     

    IREN. The end will, I assure me, be very short, and much sooner than can be in so great a trouble, as it seemeth, hoped for. Although there should none of them fall by the sword nor be slain by the soldier, yet thus being kept from manurance >> note 14 and their cattle from running abroad, by this hard restraint they would quickly consume themselves and devour one another. The proof whereof I saw sufficiently exampled in these late wars of Munster, for, notwithstanding that the same was a most rich and plentiful country, full of corn and cattle, that you would have thought they should have been able to stand long, yet ere one year and a half they were brought to such wretchedness as that any stony heart would have rued the same. Out of every corner of the woods and glens they came creeping forth upon their hands, for their legs could not bear them. They looked like anatomies of death; >> note 15 they spake like ghosts crying out of their graves; they did eat the dead carrions, happy where they could find them; yea, and one another soon after, insomuch as the very carcasses they spared not to scrape out of their graves. And if they found a plot of watercresses or shamrocks, there they flocked as to a feast for the time, yet not able long to continue there withal; that in short space there were none almost left, and a most populous and plentiful country suddenly left void of man and beast. Yet sure, in all that war there perished not many by the sword, but all by the extremity of famine which they themselves had wrought.
     
    Edmund Spenser, from A View of the Present State of Ireland

    “Cromwell occupies a spot of Hitlerian proportions in the Irish imagination”: indeed. What’s hard to know is how much of it was indeed imagination. The great massacre of civilians at Drogheda, often said to be the greatest of his crimes, is fictional. I take it that much of the rest of the sad tale isn’t. I also suppose that the heroic efforts made to reduce the estimates of the number of protestants slaughtered at the onset of the rebellion have not been matched by equivalent efforts to reduce the estimates of the number of Roman Catholics slaughtered thereafter. A bad business; it’s a bit like the flattening of Germany in WWII: it’s unwise to start a war, commit some atrocities, and then lose it. Did what the Nazis had done justify our destruction of Germany’s cities, or the Red Army’s rape of Germany’s women?

    I may be biased: my Irish grandfather was a great one for cautioning against belief in accounts of Irish history, especially those told by people from his side of the great divide i.e. the Roman Catholic, nationalist side.

    Did Iraq’s part in 9/11 justify the American attack on her and the consequent mountain of bodies? Of course that’s a trick question since Iraq’s part in 9/11 was nil. A better question: did the Confederacy’s secession justify Sherman’s terrorism during his march to the sea? God knows.

  227. @Steve Sailer
    Hating England wasn't a big thing during my 12 years of Catholic school education.

    Hating Protestants was a substantial part of the Roman Catholic primary education of a cousin of mine in England. One advantage of being from a family that’s a mixed bag of Protestants, Papists, and atheists, is that I am reasonably resistant to sentimental yarns about the behaviour of the faithful.

  228. Will western Liberals rethink the policy of allowing immigration from hostile countries and hostile civilizations after the Paris terrorist attack? Probably not. Western freedoms and the values of immigrants from hostile countries are not compatible.

  229. @syonredux

    in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.
     
    Actually, the remarkable thing is that JFK never learned to speak like a proper, upper-class Bostonian of his era . Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life

    Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life

    Not really. Kennedy’s accent was not standard Boston working class either, there was something very affected about the way he spoke. Listen to Bill Bratton if you want to hear a real working class Boston accent. Try this between 1:30 and 1:40 or around 2:07

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Whatever it was, it was more intense than Mayor Flynn's accent. Mayor Flynn is the son of a longshoreman, was Boston born and bred, and has scarcely lived anywhere else.
  230. @Hunsdon
    How about Masha Gessen? No grudges there, eh? Just a dispassionate zeal for the truth?

    How about Masha Gessen? No grudges there, eh? Just a dispassionate zeal for the truth?

    1. Unattractive, makes the worst of her assets.

    2. A subject for the question: “what is the function of intellectuals, but to tell us that things are not as ordinary people perceive them”. No candy (or thumbsucking magazine articles) discussing the dry factual business re the activities of the Tsarnaev brothers. Some rococo argument transferring the blame from the perpetrators to some socially approved abstract target is a must. Not sure how long these games have been played, but it was an established practice at the time of the Kennedy Assassination. Broad needs a normal job (and a better haircut).

  231. @Steve Sailer
    Part of Putin's appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.

    Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian.

    Not classy at all, in fact Putin has been known to use the occasional gangster and prison slang to come off as macho. He also uses a lot of the Soviet era cliches and proverbs that most Russians in positions of power feel compelled to throw into everyday speech. Putin just speaks in a very normal, non-affected way that appeals to the common man. Speaking “classy” Russian has been viewed with suspicion since the 1920s. Masha Gessen probably speaks “classy” Russian.

  232. @syonredux
    RE: My "Irish Obsession,"

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it's hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and "Irish-Americans":


    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard's student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen's doctrine of "American Pluralism," the promulgation of the obscenity that is "dual citizenship"**

    Irish: "Irish-Americans," the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the '70s and '80s, etc



    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming "Help Wanted--No Irish Need Apply!" No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, "No Irish Need Apply," purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish--on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

     


    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]

     


    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim's loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

     

    RE: My “Irish Obsession,”

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it’s hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    Bwahahahha — did some guy from Southie make you look like an over educated ass in a bar and then steal your girlfriend? It’s like you’re Whiskey, but instead of “chicks, man it’s “the Irish, man.”

    Christ – you’d almost think that the Irish were a poorly assimilated ethnic minority overrepresented in government, academia, and the media while at the same time aggressively pushing an agenda hostile to their host country.

    Its the Irish man – they’re f*ing up everything! They ruined Boston. They’re building landing strips in New Mexico for gay martians. Do you know what the Irish are doing to the soil? You know how I know? Wikipedia, Man.

    Feel my powerful wiki block quotes you Mick sons of bitches. You thinks you’re so cool with your Guinness, Dropkick Murphys and Canada invading ways. No one takes syon’s parking space. NO ONE!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    He has a bad case of Blanshardism. He contends that NINA is apocryphal; then when he gets more specific, he has to admit that it's not.
  233. Basically – America is being destroyed from the inside by the Irish. My gut feeling is that it all comes down to something to do with golf clubs. Steve, you should look into this.

  234. Hunsdon: Yes, the word is not applied to negroes in Russia. In Brighton Beach, Brooklyn things may be otherwise, for all I know, and perhaps that explains what ASF hasn’t heard.

  235. Someone suggested that Joe Kennedy went as ambassador to London to damage, undermine and get his own back on the English. This is the opposite of the truth. The British government was very disappointed that they did not find FDR as responsive to their concerns and as willing to be helpful as Kennedy was.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    This is deadpan satire, right? Otherwise, please provide a source.
  236. I think it is time for the world to know. I have spent the last 3 months investigating the tragic death of Paul Walker. I found something that we all, in our heart of hearts knew. The Irish did it.

    Walker was set to star in Sony’s pictures movie “Those Damn, Damn, Dirty Irish (how the Irish ruined Boston, stole my girlfriend and parking space)” penned by a previously unknown academic in Boston. Apparently – 3/4 of the script was cut and pasted from other sources and was changed extensively in rewrites at Walker’s request. The project was kept very hush hush. However, Sony could not keep it under wraps when a disgruntled employee (who had been fired when it was learned that he actually Irish and not Black as he claimed) leaked the info.

    The Irish then sent the IRA to sabotage Walker’s Porsche.

    Steve, of course, knew about it, which is why he tried to the down play the whole thing. But who can blame him – the Irish routinely destroy the lives of those who notice their power.

    Crap – a bunch of guys with baseball bats wearing track suits and Red Sox hats just pulled outside in a red Ford Cortina blasting the Saw Doctors. I think they’re drunk and in the middle of the afternoon no less. How uncouth! One of them stole my parking space.

    That’s it. I’m making my stand!

  237. Not really. Kennedy’s accent was not standard Boston working class either, there was something very affected about the way he spoke.

    The family moved around a great deal, and all four brothers were billeted in boarding schools as well. Their accents would have been a mix, and a somewhat different mix for the younger brothers than the older. Robert Kennedy in particular was not really native to the Cape, much less Boston. He lived all up and down the BosWash corrider throughout his life and was most at home in NoVa, which is a collecting pool of migrants.

  238. @Peter Akuleyev

    Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life
     
    Not really. Kennedy's accent was not standard Boston working class either, there was something very affected about the way he spoke. Listen to Bill Bratton if you want to hear a real working class Boston accent. Try this between 1:30 and 1:40 or around 2:07

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkBEFRkE7Vc

    Whatever it was, it was more intense than Mayor Flynn’s accent. Mayor Flynn is the son of a longshoreman, was Boston born and bred, and has scarcely lived anywhere else.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Flynn earned a Master's degree in Education from Harvard.
  239. @AshTon
    Male and female NYT columnists seem to express their narcissism in different ways. While women write articles about something in their personal lives has world-shaking repercussions, men make themselves important by writing about faraway places. It looks like lesbians combine these approaches.

    While women write articles about something in their personal lives has world-shaking repercussions, men make themselves important by writing about faraway places. It looks like lesbians combine these approaches.

    Writing a foreign affairs column is ‘narcissistic’? Okey doke.

  240. @anon
    "Part of Putin’s appeal to Russians is that he speaks classy Russian."

    Putin is the first Russian ruler since the last czar who was born and raised in one of the two capitals, i.e. who is not a provincial. Yet he's not effete either. Furthest thing from it. Image-wise he's a near-perfect spokesman for Russia. Yes, he's viewed negatively by most Westerners, but that's entirely an effect of Western media's propaganda. He certainly hasn't made the propagandists' job any easier. He's not a drunk clown like Yeltsin, nor senile like Brezhnev. And unlike Khruschev he doesn't remind anyone of any peasants. Gorbachev has a rustic accent and affect but since he made the first looting of Russia since the Bolshevik Revolution possible, the West's media did not capitalize on that.

    Yes, he’s viewed negatively by most Westerners, but that’s entirely an effect of Western media’s propaganda.

    If the fiction pleases you, fine.

  241. @syonredux
    RE: My "Irish Obsession,"

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it's hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and "Irish-Americans":


    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard's student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen's doctrine of "American Pluralism," the promulgation of the obscenity that is "dual citizenship"**

    Irish: "Irish-Americans," the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the '70s and '80s, etc



    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming "Help Wanted--No Irish Need Apply!" No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, "No Irish Need Apply," purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish--on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

     


    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]

     


    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim's loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

     

    It’s interesting how Afroyim sort of guts the idea of treason, colloquially speaking at least, isn’t it?

    I mean, if one can go and become a citizen of another country and stay a dual citizen of the U.S. until one renounces it, or indeed even consciously but secretly renounced it when they become a citizen of another country or even before, well, intellectually speaking at least, how can they therefrom be said to be engaged in treasonous behavior towards the U.S.? “Oh, I renounced by allegiance to the U.S. years ago,” it seems to me they are free and entirely consistent to say, “if the U.S. is so stupid as to not expressly require me to maintain that as a condition of granting me a job with it, or a security clearance, or whatever, well that’s its problem and laws and regulations. I was just serving another country who I felt I owed my sole allegiance to…”

    And they say that the Courts only interpret the law and don’t make it…

  242. @Cagey Beast
    I'm not going to try to figure out how people here went from Masha Gessen to the Fenian Raids. Is it because Masha Gessen is a passionate collector of US Civil War memorabilia?

    I’m not going to try to figure out how people here went from Masha Gessen to the Fenian Raids. Is it because Masha Gessen is a passionate collector of US Civil War memorabilia?

    Actually, she’s a Civil War reenactor and belongs to a zouave unit mustering out of Moscow. On a local soccer field within sight of the Kremlin, they stage mock battles against the pretend forces of Putin’s medieval “White Horde” and charge admission to raise money for an international adoption charity and global peace studies.

  243. @syonredux
    RE: My "Irish Obsession,"

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it's hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and "Irish-Americans":


    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard's student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen's doctrine of "American Pluralism," the promulgation of the obscenity that is "dual citizenship"**

    Irish: "Irish-Americans," the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the '70s and '80s, etc



    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming "Help Wanted--No Irish Need Apply!" No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, "No Irish Need Apply," purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish--on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

     


    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]

     


    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim's loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

     

    The Famine was “engineered” in a similar fashion as the major famines in the USSR or PRC: centralization of wealth. Centralization of wealth via private sector rent-seeking in the former, and public sector rent-seeking in the latter.

  244. @syonredux
    RE: My "Irish Obsession,"

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it's hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and "Irish-Americans":


    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard's student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen's doctrine of "American Pluralism," the promulgation of the obscenity that is "dual citizenship"**

    Irish: "Irish-Americans," the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the '70s and '80s, etc



    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming "Help Wanted--No Irish Need Apply!" No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, "No Irish Need Apply," purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish--on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

     


    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]

     


    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim's loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

     

    You could analogize this to virtually every ethnic or national group. American Jews are similar to the Irish and every other ethnic or national groups in some respects, but they are different in other respects in terms of their experience, collective memory and behavior.

  245. @syonredux

    in rather the same way as the Kennedys at some point lost their ancestral Irish brogue and learnt to speak like proper Bostonians.
     
    Actually, the remarkable thing is that JFK never learned to speak like a proper, upper-class Bostonian of his era . Despite his elite education (Choate, Harvard), JFK spoke with a lower-class Boston accent throughout his life

    JFK had a middle/upper-middle class Boston accent. Few people had an exaggerated upper class Bostonian accent by the mid-20th century.

  246. @Jefferson
    "I earlier noted Kipling’s quip about the Irish hatred for England reaching it’s fullest flowering among Irish-Americans."

    There is an episode of "Burn Notice" where Fiona's Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.

    There is an episode of “Burn Notice” where Fiona’s Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.

    Ironically you don’t really get a lot of that talk right here in the belly of the beast itself – England. Yet Irish people are everywhere. Sure, there’s a degree of 1st and even 2nd generation bitching about England, the Britsh, history etc but it seems to die out beyond that. Once you hit the 3rd, 4th generation people don’t really seem to identify as Irish much, whereas it seems like Irish-Americans can keep it up indefinitely.

    I remember being with an Irish friend in London and we saw a whole family dressed completely in assorted Ireland t-shirts, green hats etc real tourist get-up. We exchanged glances and he said to me dismissively but not without some affection “Americans”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    James Q. Wilson grew up Catholic in SoCal in the 1940s. When he got to Harvard, he was amazed how much more territorial and aggressive everbody was, the Irish especially.

    My impression of L.A. Catholic schooling in 1964-1976 is that anti-Anglo feelings were a fringe phenomenon. The martyrdom of JFK had made Catholics feel fully accepted with one of their own now in the American historical pantheon.

    Meanwhile, the popular culture of children in Los Angeles in the 1960s was wildly anglophilic (Julie Andrews in Mary Poppins, then the Beatles). The Beatles seemed very English but also vaguely Celtic, so everybody was happy.

    , @Hibernian
    Outside of the Eastern cities and quasi-Eastern Chicago, the attitude is not that different from what you describe in England. (IMHO)
  247. For the McGowan conspiracy fanboys: however Jeff Bauman received his injuries, he was one effed-up dude. My girlfriend was his case manager at the hospital, and she didn’t think he was going to make it the first couple of days after the bombing.

    As a 12-year Catholic school student who grew up on Boston’s South Shore, the most Irish area in America, I can unequivocally state that they don’t espouse any special hate of the English. They hate everyone equally.

    And yes, Neil Gaiman’s pan-sexual freakshow of a “wife”, Amanda Palmer, does have a type. They have to be breathing.

  248. @Francis
    Seriously, WTF is wrong with this woman?

    Aside from her being incoherently anti-Russian she is a woman maimed by her lesbianism. And that is why she despises Putin – and her homeland – so much: it dares to put the brakes, even a little, on the homosexual juggernaut.

    She runs around telling anyone who will listen that Russia is repressive vis-a-vis sodomites and those who disagree with Putin, without bothering to notice that Putin isn’t persecuting her or any other homosexually-disturbed person. It is also possible her hatred for Christianity is a consequence of her Judaism.

    I pity her.

  249. @Lurker

    There is an episode of “Burn Notice” where Fiona’s Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.
     
    Ironically you don't really get a lot of that talk right here in the belly of the beast itself - England. Yet Irish people are everywhere. Sure, there's a degree of 1st and even 2nd generation bitching about England, the Britsh, history etc but it seems to die out beyond that. Once you hit the 3rd, 4th generation people don't really seem to identify as Irish much, whereas it seems like Irish-Americans can keep it up indefinitely.

    I remember being with an Irish friend in London and we saw a whole family dressed completely in assorted Ireland t-shirts, green hats etc real tourist get-up. We exchanged glances and he said to me dismissively but not without some affection "Americans"

    James Q. Wilson grew up Catholic in SoCal in the 1940s. When he got to Harvard, he was amazed how much more territorial and aggressive everbody was, the Irish especially.

    My impression of L.A. Catholic schooling in 1964-1976 is that anti-Anglo feelings were a fringe phenomenon. The martyrdom of JFK had made Catholics feel fully accepted with one of their own now in the American historical pantheon.

    Meanwhile, the popular culture of children in Los Angeles in the 1960s was wildly anglophilic (Julie Andrews in Mary Poppins, then the Beatles). The Beatles seemed very English but also vaguely Celtic, so everybody was happy.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    At least two Beatles were clearly Irish Catholics, probably three and maybe all four.
    , @Steve Sailer
    I played Mr. Brownlow in the St. Francis de Sales' 1970 production of "Oliver!"
  250. @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    RE: My “Irish Obsession,”

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it’s hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.
     

    Bwahahahha -- did some guy from Southie make you look like an over educated ass in a bar and then steal your girlfriend? It's like you're Whiskey, but instead of "chicks, man it's "the Irish, man."

    Christ - you'd almost think that the Irish were a poorly assimilated ethnic minority overrepresented in government, academia, and the media while at the same time aggressively pushing an agenda hostile to their host country.

    Its the Irish man - they're f*ing up everything! They ruined Boston. They're building landing strips in New Mexico for gay martians. Do you know what the Irish are doing to the soil? You know how I know? Wikipedia, Man.

    Feel my powerful wiki block quotes you Mick sons of bitches. You thinks you're so cool with your Guinness, Dropkick Murphys and Canada invading ways. No one takes syon's parking space. NO ONE!

    He has a bad case of Blanshardism. He contends that NINA is apocryphal; then when he gets more specific, he has to admit that it’s not.

  251. @Steve Sailer
    James Q. Wilson grew up Catholic in SoCal in the 1940s. When he got to Harvard, he was amazed how much more territorial and aggressive everbody was, the Irish especially.

    My impression of L.A. Catholic schooling in 1964-1976 is that anti-Anglo feelings were a fringe phenomenon. The martyrdom of JFK had made Catholics feel fully accepted with one of their own now in the American historical pantheon.

    Meanwhile, the popular culture of children in Los Angeles in the 1960s was wildly anglophilic (Julie Andrews in Mary Poppins, then the Beatles). The Beatles seemed very English but also vaguely Celtic, so everybody was happy.

    At least two Beatles were clearly Irish Catholics, probably three and maybe all four.

  252. @Lurker

    There is an episode of “Burn Notice” where Fiona’s Irish brother mentions how much he hates the English a.k.a the WASPs.
     
    Ironically you don't really get a lot of that talk right here in the belly of the beast itself - England. Yet Irish people are everywhere. Sure, there's a degree of 1st and even 2nd generation bitching about England, the Britsh, history etc but it seems to die out beyond that. Once you hit the 3rd, 4th generation people don't really seem to identify as Irish much, whereas it seems like Irish-Americans can keep it up indefinitely.

    I remember being with an Irish friend in London and we saw a whole family dressed completely in assorted Ireland t-shirts, green hats etc real tourist get-up. We exchanged glances and he said to me dismissively but not without some affection "Americans"

    Outside of the Eastern cities and quasi-Eastern Chicago, the attitude is not that different from what you describe in England. (IMHO)

  253. @Art Deco
    Whatever it was, it was more intense than Mayor Flynn's accent. Mayor Flynn is the son of a longshoreman, was Boston born and bred, and has scarcely lived anywhere else.

    Flynn earned a Master’s degree in Education from Harvard.

  254. @5371
    Someone suggested that Joe Kennedy went as ambassador to London to damage, undermine and get his own back on the English. This is the opposite of the truth. The British government was very disappointed that they did not find FDR as responsive to their concerns and as willing to be helpful as Kennedy was.

    This is deadpan satire, right? Otherwise, please provide a source.

  255. As far as that goes, I’ve heard the same said about Khruschev—that he spoke with a distinct Ukrainian accent.

    -There is a noticeable accent, but it’s not nearly as noticeable as, say, an English accent is to an American. More like a Brooklyn accent is to a Midwesterner.

    @Mike in Boston
    -You are right on the money. Russians have always apparently wanted to emulate U.S. blacks. The most significant difference is that Russians are, on average, somewhat more intelligent, and, so, could get the Russian economy to de facto Mexican levels of per capita income by the 1980s and well beyond that today.

  256. @Steve Sailer
    James Q. Wilson grew up Catholic in SoCal in the 1940s. When he got to Harvard, he was amazed how much more territorial and aggressive everbody was, the Irish especially.

    My impression of L.A. Catholic schooling in 1964-1976 is that anti-Anglo feelings were a fringe phenomenon. The martyrdom of JFK had made Catholics feel fully accepted with one of their own now in the American historical pantheon.

    Meanwhile, the popular culture of children in Los Angeles in the 1960s was wildly anglophilic (Julie Andrews in Mary Poppins, then the Beatles). The Beatles seemed very English but also vaguely Celtic, so everybody was happy.

    I played Mr. Brownlow in the St. Francis de Sales’ 1970 production of “Oliver!”

  257. What are you talking about?

  258. @syonredux
    RE: My "Irish Obsession,"

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it's hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and "Irish-Americans":


    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard's student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen's doctrine of "American Pluralism," the promulgation of the obscenity that is "dual citizenship"**

    Irish: "Irish-Americans," the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the '70s and '80s, etc



    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming "Help Wanted--No Irish Need Apply!" No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, "No Irish Need Apply," purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish--on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

     


    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]

     


    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim's loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

     

    Don’t bother, Syon, they’ve worked to hard for their illusions just to throw them all away!

    My Catholic elementary/junior high school had NINE non-Irish students while I was there. Given the obnoxious nature of the standard Boston mick and that I, one of the fat kids and raised by parents who valued courtesy, didn’t have the easiest time…until the 7th grade; whiskers and strangely powerful muscles emerged over the summer. I spent a little time busting up the worst loudmouthed punks in gym class, which back in the 60s was semi-organized mayhem. The insults petered away, and I noticed that, for all their chattering, the only real one-on-one fights I had were with two pretty tough Italian kids from the neighborhood. The Irish, like the hyenas, only attack in packs.

    What permanently set me apart, though, was something I did the spring of 8th grade. The school allowed us to not wear our uniforms on March 17 if we came to school wearing green. I had already been reading history books outside of the school curriculum, and I went to school that day wearing an orange sweater. Most of my classmates didn’t get the meaning, but the nuns sure did. I was sent to the principal’s office (we’re talking about a parish where the priests were named Murphy, Sullivan and Walsh), and I think I would have been sent me home if I weren’t one of the best students in the school, but they relented. They even let me wear the sweater. To this day I wear orange on St. Paddy’s Day. Some people look at me askance, but few comment.

    I have to thank my mom for this, as she felt excluded by the local Irish Catholics and found friends who were Jewish and WASP. She clued me in on the William of Orange and the significance of the color orange. She was also the one who said, after I complained about Irish classmates, “Don’t listen to them. Just remember that your ancestors ruled half the known world, while their’s don’t even rule their own island!”

    Which is the whole problem with Irish-Americans and the huge chip on their collective shoulder. Those Six Counties are a permanent splinter in their collective psyche.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Reminds me of when I tried to tee off at Ballybunion in 1987 with easy to find orange golf balls only to have the starter tell me everybody played green balls at Ballybunion in Co. Kerry.
    , @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911

    Don’t bother, Syon, they’ve worked to hard for their illusions just to throw them all away!
     
    As noted above - the Irish really have been running things behind the scenes throughout history. Their lives have been ridiculously easy, buts it's still "Oh, Poor Paddy works on the railway." Mick bastards should be raising money at local pubs to send money back over to build a a statue of Oliver Cromwell in O'connell square. But no, ignorant bastards won't. Bottom line, they should round 'em up in Paddy Wagons and ship 'em back to Salthill, Galway or something. Don't say that out loud, though - they'll Paul Walker ya.

    What permanently set me apart, though, was something I did the spring of 8th grade. The school allowed us to not wear our uniforms on March 17 if we came to school wearing green. I had already been reading history books outside of the school curriculum, and I went to school that day wearing an orange sweater.
     
    That's one way to speak truth to power, I guess.

    The Irish, like the hyenas, only attack in packs.
     

    Exactly - look what those Mick bastards did to Ferguson!

    Which is the whole problem with Irish-Americans and the huge chip on their collective shoulder. Those Six Counties are a permanent splinter in their collective psyche.
     
    Really? I mean, really? For the last 40 somethings years I have spent Christmas with my relatives, on my mother side, i.e, my almost 100% Irish American family. Uncles, aunts, first cousins, second Cousins, cousin's husbands, etc. - the whole damn bloody lot. No once and I mean, not once, in 40 something god damn years has some old Uncle after his first taste of whiskey started talking about ancient Irish history. Sometimes I had to hear my uncle Sean (name changed to avoid SJW''s) talk about the time he worked as a bagman for the Mob (confirmed) back in the 60's and the time he saw a UFO land on the local high school's football field (not confirmed).

    And, seriously, the crap I had to take from my uncles for being a somewhat pensive and thoughtful type of guy pales in comparison to whatever penny ante crap you had take in 7th grade. It makes you tougher. That's the f*ing point.


    I have to thank my mom for this, as she felt excluded by the local Irish Catholics and found friends who were Jewish and WASP
     
    Ok - your mom thought spending the afternoon with Bridget and Theresa whilst you were in school being abused by Irish lads was highly desirable, but, alas, since she got stuck being invited for tea by Avital and Buffy you're still sore about it after all these years? I mean, really, think about it - some Irish Americans didn't want to hang with your Mom back in the day and you're still pissed off?

    Was it because the Irish were cooler?

  259. @Brutusale
    Don't bother, Syon, they've worked to hard for their illusions just to throw them all away!

    My Catholic elementary/junior high school had NINE non-Irish students while I was there. Given the obnoxious nature of the standard Boston mick and that I, one of the fat kids and raised by parents who valued courtesy, didn't have the easiest time...until the 7th grade; whiskers and strangely powerful muscles emerged over the summer. I spent a little time busting up the worst loudmouthed punks in gym class, which back in the 60s was semi-organized mayhem. The insults petered away, and I noticed that, for all their chattering, the only real one-on-one fights I had were with two pretty tough Italian kids from the neighborhood. The Irish, like the hyenas, only attack in packs.

    What permanently set me apart, though, was something I did the spring of 8th grade. The school allowed us to not wear our uniforms on March 17 if we came to school wearing green. I had already been reading history books outside of the school curriculum, and I went to school that day wearing an orange sweater. Most of my classmates didn't get the meaning, but the nuns sure did. I was sent to the principal's office (we're talking about a parish where the priests were named Murphy, Sullivan and Walsh), and I think I would have been sent me home if I weren't one of the best students in the school, but they relented. They even let me wear the sweater. To this day I wear orange on St. Paddy's Day. Some people look at me askance, but few comment.

    I have to thank my mom for this, as she felt excluded by the local Irish Catholics and found friends who were Jewish and WASP. She clued me in on the William of Orange and the significance of the color orange. She was also the one who said, after I complained about Irish classmates, "Don't listen to them. Just remember that your ancestors ruled half the known world, while their's don't even rule their own island!"

    Which is the whole problem with Irish-Americans and the huge chip on their collective shoulder. Those Six Counties are a permanent splinter in their collective psyche.

    Reminds me of when I tried to tee off at Ballybunion in 1987 with easy to find orange golf balls only to have the starter tell me everybody played green balls at Ballybunion in Co. Kerry.

    • Replies: @JustAnotherGuyWitha1911
    Hurmh - that is *very* disturbing, Steve. I hope it did not leave you permanently scared. Perhaps you should send a quick e-mail to Eric Holder - he could stop on over on his way to France and investigate.
  260. @syonredux
    RE: My "Irish Obsession,"

    Well, I do live in Boston, and it's hard to escape the impact (largely negative, I might add) that the Irish have had on the city.

    As for American Jews and "Irish-Americans":


    1.Nursing ancestral tragedies:

    Jews: pogroms and Hitler

    Irish: Cromwell and the Famine (nearly every Irish person that I have spoken to regards the Famine as a Stalin and Ukraine style engineered atrocity)

    Nursing Memories of discrimination in America:

    Jews: the heartbreaking tragedy of not getting into WASP country clubs, quotas at the Ivy League (apparently, limiting Jews to 15% of Harvard's student body was a really bad thing)

    Irish: the evil Know-Nothings, the apocryphal NINA* (No Irish Need Apply) sign

    Diluting American Unity:

    Jews: Horace Kallen's doctrine of "American Pluralism," the promulgation of the obscenity that is "dual citizenship"**

    Irish: "Irish-Americans," the first hyphenated Americans

    Attempts to distort American foreign policy:

    Jews: Israel

    Irish: Fenian raids, pro-German activities in WW1, aid to the IRA in the '70s and '80s, etc



    *http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm

    Abstract
    Irish Catholics in America have a vibrant memory of humiliating job discrimination, which featured omnipresent signs proclaiming "Help Wanted--No Irish Need Apply!" No one has ever seen one of these NINA signs because they were extremely rare or nonexistent. The market for female household workers occasionally specified religion or nationality. Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service. Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare. The slogan was commonplace in upper class London by 1820; in 1862 in London there was a song, "No Irish Need Apply," purportedly by a maid looking for work. The song reached America and was modified to depict a man recently arrived in America who sees a NINA ad and confronts and beats up the culprit. The song was an immediate hit, and is the source of the myth. Evidence from the job market shows no significant discrimination against the Irish--on the contrary, employers eagerly sought them out. Some Americans feared the Irish because of their religion, their use of violence, and their threat to democratic elections. By the Civil War these fears had subsided and there were no efforts to exclude Irish immigrants. The Irish worked in gangs in job sites they could control by force. The NINA slogan told them they had to stick together against the Protestant Enemy, in terms of jobs and politics. The NINA myth justified physical assaults, and persisted because it aided ethnic solidarity. After 1940 the solidarity faded away, yet NINA remained as a powerful memory.

     


    **Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a Polish-born man, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    The impact of Afroyim v. Rusk was narrowed by a later case, Rogers v. Bellei (1971), in which the Court determined that the Fourteenth Amendment safeguarded citizenship only when a person was born or naturalized in the United States, and that Congress retained authority to regulate the citizenship status of a person who was born outside the United States to an American parent. However, the specific law at issue in Rogers v. Bellei—a requirement for a minimum period of U.S. residence that Bellei had failed to satisfy—was repealed by Congress in 1978. As a consequence of revised policies adopted in 1990 by the United States Department of State, it is now (in the words of one expert) "virtually impossible to lose American citizenship without formally and expressly renouncing it."[4]

     


    Beys Afroyim (born Ephraim Bernstein, 1893?–1984) was an artist known as an active communist who also worked for the communist party but later became more active for zionism and moved to Israel.[33] Various sources state that he was born in either 1893[32][34][35] or 1898,[36] and either in Poland generally,[35] specifically in the Polish town of Ryki,[32][34] or in Riga, Latvia[36] (then part of the Russian Empire). In 1912, Afroyim immigrated to the United States, and on June 14, 1926, he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen.[36][37] He studied at the Art Institute of Chicago, as well as the National Academy of Design in New York City, and he was commissioned to paint portraits of George Bernard Shaw, Theodore Dreiser, and Arnold Schoenberg.[32] In 1949, Afroyim left the United States and settled in Israel, together with his wife and former student Soshana (an Austrian artist).[32]

    In 1960, following the breakdown of his marriage, Afroyim decided to return to the United States,[38] but the State Department refused to renew his U.S. passport, ruling that because Afroyim had voted in the 1951 Israeli legislative election, he had lost his citizenship under the provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940.[39] A letter certifying Afroyim's loss of citizenship was issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) on January 13, 1961.[36]

     

    re domestic help: at one time, maids were referred to as Bridgets, since so many were Irish.

  261. @Brutusale
    Don't bother, Syon, they've worked to hard for their illusions just to throw them all away!

    My Catholic elementary/junior high school had NINE non-Irish students while I was there. Given the obnoxious nature of the standard Boston mick and that I, one of the fat kids and raised by parents who valued courtesy, didn't have the easiest time...until the 7th grade; whiskers and strangely powerful muscles emerged over the summer. I spent a little time busting up the worst loudmouthed punks in gym class, which back in the 60s was semi-organized mayhem. The insults petered away, and I noticed that, for all their chattering, the only real one-on-one fights I had were with two pretty tough Italian kids from the neighborhood. The Irish, like the hyenas, only attack in packs.

    What permanently set me apart, though, was something I did the spring of 8th grade. The school allowed us to not wear our uniforms on March 17 if we came to school wearing green. I had already been reading history books outside of the school curriculum, and I went to school that day wearing an orange sweater. Most of my classmates didn't get the meaning, but the nuns sure did. I was sent to the principal's office (we're talking about a parish where the priests were named Murphy, Sullivan and Walsh), and I think I would have been sent me home if I weren't one of the best students in the school, but they relented. They even let me wear the sweater. To this day I wear orange on St. Paddy's Day. Some people look at me askance, but few comment.

    I have to thank my mom for this, as she felt excluded by the local Irish Catholics and found friends who were Jewish and WASP. She clued me in on the William of Orange and the significance of the color orange. She was also the one who said, after I complained about Irish classmates, "Don't listen to them. Just remember that your ancestors ruled half the known world, while their's don't even rule their own island!"

    Which is the whole problem with Irish-Americans and the huge chip on their collective shoulder. Those Six Counties are a permanent splinter in their collective psyche.

    Don’t bother, Syon, they’ve worked to hard for their illusions just to throw them all away!

    As noted above – the Irish really have been running things behind the scenes throughout history. Their lives have been ridiculously easy, buts it’s still “Oh, Poor Paddy works on the railway.” Mick bastards should be raising money at local pubs to send money back over to build a a statue of Oliver Cromwell in O’connell square. But no, ignorant bastards won’t. Bottom line, they should round ’em up in Paddy Wagons and ship ’em back to Salthill, Galway or something. Don’t say that out loud, though – they’ll Paul Walker ya.

    What permanently set me apart, though, was something I did the spring of 8th grade. The school allowed us to not wear our uniforms on March 17 if we came to school wearing green. I had already been reading history books outside of the school curriculum, and I went to school that day wearing an orange sweater.

    That’s one way to speak truth to power, I guess.

    The Irish, like the hyenas, only attack in packs.

    Exactly – look what those Mick bastards did to Ferguson!

    Which is the whole problem with Irish-Americans and the huge chip on their collective shoulder. Those Six Counties are a permanent splinter in their collective psyche.

    Really? I mean, really? For the last 40 somethings years I have spent Christmas with my relatives, on my mother side, i.e, my almost 100% Irish American family. Uncles, aunts, first cousins, second Cousins, cousin’s husbands, etc. – the whole damn bloody lot. No once and I mean, not once, in 40 something god damn years has some old Uncle after his first taste of whiskey started talking about ancient Irish history. Sometimes I had to hear my uncle Sean (name changed to avoid SJW”s) talk about the time he worked as a bagman for the Mob (confirmed) back in the 60’s and the time he saw a UFO land on the local high school’s football field (not confirmed).

    And, seriously, the crap I had to take from my uncles for being a somewhat pensive and thoughtful type of guy pales in comparison to whatever penny ante crap you had take in 7th grade. It makes you tougher. That’s the f*ing point.

    I have to thank my mom for this, as she felt excluded by the local Irish Catholics and found friends who were Jewish and WASP

    Ok – your mom thought spending the afternoon with Bridget and Theresa whilst you were in school being abused by Irish lads was highly desirable, but, alas, since she got stuck being invited for tea by Avital and Buffy you’re still sore about it after all these years? I mean, really, think about it – some Irish Americans didn’t want to hang with your Mom back in the day and you’re still pissed off?

    Was it because the Irish were cooler?

  262. @Steve Sailer
    Reminds me of when I tried to tee off at Ballybunion in 1987 with easy to find orange golf balls only to have the starter tell me everybody played green balls at Ballybunion in Co. Kerry.

    Hurmh – that is *very* disturbing, Steve. I hope it did not leave you permanently scared. Perhaps you should send a quick e-mail to Eric Holder – he could stop on over on his way to France and investigate.

  263. I know people are being killed by the third historical attempt to install a (the)caliphate in Europe, and, of course, we are living through the process of ethnically cleansing the Western European population in North America – all big problems for sure – but it should *not* distract us from the horrible things the Irish have done here in America. At this very minute, they are planning on being mean to you in gym class and not inviting your mom to tea!

    Stand and fight!

    #OrangeBodiesMatter

    #Don’tTakeMyParkingSpaceMickBastard

  264. Just remember that your ancestors ruled half the known world

    Must have had a very poor Atlas.

  265. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Big Bill

    Is there something about American society that breeds these kinds of ethnic hatreds?
     
    No. America does not "breed" them. They come here with the crazy pre-installed. It is their weird Diaspora mentality. Some people, like Gessen, choose to live in Exile even when they can go home, be in the bosom of their people in their own homeland, and live a life of integrity with the people around them.

    Gessen is a Jew, not a Russian. Her national homeland is Israel. She could return home anytime she wants. Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Russia have done so. Yet she chose to leave one Exilic community (Russia) and move to another Exilic community (America). She obviously likes being an angry outsider.

    For me, as an American, I cannot figure out why any American would put someone with so many personal, sexual and ethnic issues in a position to influence our foreign relations (i.e. her stint at Radio Liberty). Who picked her for the job?

    Not all Ashkenazi Jews agree that Israel is our home. None of our ancestors lived there for almost two thousand years. Per recent genetic studies, a significant portion of our distant ancestors (the southern European ones) never lived there. If we should go “home” to Israel, perhaps you should also go “home” to your ancestral nations in Europe and leave America to its rightful inhabitants, the Native American tribes. Not appealing? Oh well.

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