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Martina Navratilova Takes on the Ex-Men Lobby
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From The Guardian:

Martina Navratilova criticised over ‘cheating’ trans women comments

Former tennis player says trans athletes competing in women’s tournaments is ‘insane’

Frances Perraudin, @fperraudin, Sun 17 Feb 2019

The former Wimbledon champion Martina Navratilova has been criticised for “disturbing, upsetting, and deeply transphobic” comments after she argued that allowing transgender women to compete in women’s sporting tournaments was “insane and cheating”.

The tennis player and gay rights campaigner first drew criticism from equalities activists and trans athletes when she tweeted in December: “You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women. There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.”

Writing in the Sunday Times, Navratilova said she had subsequently promised to keep quiet on the subject until she had done some research on it. “Well, I’ve now done that and, if anything, my views have strengthened,” she wrote.

“To put the argument at its most basic: a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires.

I think she means “fathering babies.”

“It’s insane and it’s cheating. I am happy to address a transgender woman in whatever form she prefers, but I would not be happy to compete against her. It would not be fair.”

Her comments attracted criticism across social media.

Martina is pretty formidable and really hates losing, so if she’s serious about her campaign to save women’s sports, she’s a rare celebrity who might have what it takes to stand up to the widely-feared Ex-Men Lobby.

 
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  1. Dtbb says:

    She didn’t mind trannies when one was her coach. Maybe she has late onset genderism?

    • Replies: @A Spectator
  2. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Only Nixon could have went to China, and only the mannish lesbian Navratilova could say this in public and not be destroyed.

    Well, she’s right.

    • Replies: @markflag
  3. Anon[997] • Disclaimer says:

    A funny, non-political SNL sketch. I had forgotten about those.

  4. Ex-Man

    Shouldn’t that be Ex-Men? I bet that would make a great movie.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  5. I don’t know if Martina is from the Czech or Slovakian part of the old Czecheslovakia, but something in the DNA of East Europeans seems to confer an immunity to the political correctness virus.

    We could use more immigrants from those countries.

  6. Sapir-Whorf on the Wharf*?
    Or: She “Means To Win Wimbledon” – Again And Again…

    Was it Martina Navratilova or a Blancmange who was said to have “eaten” Billie Jean King in “straight” sets?

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ce362719-2c78-45e5-8997-87fbeb8d827f

    Also see Tahitian Grass-Skirt Finals

    See also Margaret Mead’s sequel, “The Age of Coming in Samoa”
    and One man’s Mead is another man’s virgin*.

    * wharf, virgin – From Wiki: “Before departing for Samoa, Mead had a short affair with the linguist Edward Sapir [!]…”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead#Personal_life

    • Replies: @Anonym
  7. Rosie says:

    I would really much rather have a regular woman (i.e. not a lesbian) athlete represent us on this issue, but if there are none who will do so, Martina will have to do. Good for her for doubling down.

  8. Anon[997] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Kamala Harris freezes when asked about Jussie Smollett case

    Via Althouse:

    Kamala Harris is terribly awkward when asked about Jussie Smollett.

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2019/02/kamala-harris-is-terribly-awkward-when.html

    She acts as though she doesn’t remember what she tweeted, then, when reminded that she called it “an attempted modern-day lynching,” she looks back (at 0:27) as if to seek help from somebody (perhaps that grim, frowning woman behind her), then turns forward again, says “sorry” and giggles. She giggled in response to the idea of lynching!

    Then she partly composes herself, lifts her eyebrows halfway up her forehead and says “ummm, uh, uh, okay” and otherwise stalls for 10 seconds before coming out with “The facts are still unfolding,” which struck me as ridiculous considering that she didn’t wait for facts to unfold before declaring it “an attempted modern-day lynching,” so she’s making it seem as though she’ll jump to a conclusion when she likes where she can go and will take refuge in restraint when she doesn’t like it.

    She adds “I’m very concerned and obviously…” and then this edit of the video ends. I think, based on this NYT report — “Kamala Harris Faces Questions About ‘Democratic Socialist’ Label and Jussie Smollett in N.H. Debut” — that the next thing she said was that there should be an investigation. Why wasn’t that obvious back when she was tweeting “modern-day lynching”?

    Yes! A Senate investigation! Call Jussie to testify. Let the Republicans replay the videos and hold up posters of the Tweets of the Democrats during the hearings.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @AnotherDad
  9. jb says:

    OT, but there is an extremely interesting op-ed in the NYT — interesting because it actually includes a short list of hate hoaxes! Not something I ever expected to see, and I’m not quite sure what to make of it. However given that the author is the associate editor of Commentary, this paragraph may provide some context:

    Perhaps most damningly, the kind of scrutiny and anger reserved for incidents of racial hatred seem limited to episodes that confirm what social justice activists believe should constitute American bigotry. There have been no similar national paroxysms amid a sharp uptick in violence targeting New York City’s Jewish population. Maybe that’s because Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn don’t register for these activists as prototypical victims of violent prejudice.

  10. Tyrion 2 says:

    Perhaps it might seem that females players will barely ever return a male first serve but a truly woke Umpire would see otherwise.

    50% of Men’s trophies at Wimbledon must go to women. It is 2019. Anything else is misogyny.

  11. You would think this would fall under the common sense column but sadly here we are. Not so long ago there was some controversy about an MMA fighter named Fallon foxx , a male to female transgender that fights women. His current record I believe is 5-1, all five wins being a stain on the idea of competitive fairness. His lone loss was by knockout to a strong, talented and legitimately female fighter named Ashlee Evans-Smith. This gender bending is a particularly egregious practice in combat sports where it can quite literally be a matter of life and death.

    • Replies: @Anony Trans
  12. @Rosie

    Props to Martina. Common sense. Who gives a rat’s ass who she might sleep with?

  13. Lagertha says:

    wtf????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? why bother; you let all the liars thru!

  14. @Hypnotoad666

    …but something in the DNA of East Europeans seems to confer an immunity to the political correctness virus.

    Not DNA. Recent memory.

  15. @Hypnotoad666

    Her birthplace is Prague.

    She defected to get away from the commies and is not a robot order follower. When she quit competing she was the greatest woman tennis player ever. A couple competitors for that title have since had a run at it but Navritalova is a giant, like a GOAT, like a Michael Jordan.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  16. Title IX vs. The X-Men

    Whom to root for? I’m just going to enjoy it and not put any bets down, though I’d like to see both sides lose. This is why they make that fancy popcorn – occasions like this.

    • Agree: MBlanc46
  17. Good. But also clean house in women’s sports. Serena’s obviously been on steroids (e.g. the panic room incident). They’re detectable (in blood) for a month, but the advantages never go away.

  18. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Those countries can’t spare the people.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  19. After some initial skepticism I’ve really come around on the transgender issue. I think transgenderism is pretty much the best social change to happen in my lifetime. I 100% support. But maybe not for the typical reasons.

    First, the domination of female sports by male to female transgenders: I love it. At its core the most recent waves of feminism, insofar as they have a coherent ideology, are based on a denial of biology. Anyone with basic powers of observation can see that there are both physical and cognitive differences between the sexes. Even if you don’t believe your lyin’ eyes, the existence of these differences are supported by mountains of scientific evidence. Thus it should not be surprising that there are more male physicists and firefighters than female, and more female teachers than male. This is a completely natural outcome and not a problem that needs to be solved. Feminists deny all this and thus see differences in outcome as evidence of discrimination which must be corrected. These spurious ‘remedies’ and ‘corrections’ have real negative consequences for men. Wrestling programs cancelled due to title IX, males passed over for engineering scholarships while less qualified women get full-rides. Etc. We are all familiar with this.

    Trying to calmly argue that men and women are different and thus differences in outcome should be tolerated–that has gotten nowhere. That has been tried for 30, 40 years and has gotten no traction. Why not take a page out of Alinsky and take the denial of biology to its logical extreme, and make the enemy play by their own rules? If gender is not really a biological thing, but just how you feel, then let’s dive into the reductio ad absurdum of M2F trannies pummeling women in sporting contests. Figuratively or sometimes literally. Eventually perhaps women will figure out that traditional morality, patriarchy, etc. were about protecting women, not exploiting them. (Although of course it did place constraints on behavior.)

    Anyway, bottom line, transwomen winning the women’s 800 meter, not my problem, all the other feminist antics, yes has caused problems for me and mine.

    Second issue–F2M transgenders. I also love them. 100% great love it totally support. I’ve known two fairly well before and after transition. They were first degree harpies before their transition, after the transition they were the meekest mildest men you could imagine. Made my life so much more pleasant at work. I think this was for two reasons: 1.) they were genuinely unhappy as women and felt better after the transition. 2.) they have to be mild and meek as they were now very very small very very weak men. I mean if they acted like they had as women out in public they would get their teeth knocked out. So they really didn’t have any choice. I wonder if they knew that going in? Probably not. Probably thought that being a man = good, being a woman = bad. As opposed to them just being qualitatively different experiences. Lot of self loathing in the modern feminist, I must say.

    • Agree: TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  20. istevefan says:

    It’s funny Martina is the one complaining. I recall people were not all that happy back in the day watching butch players like her stomp over feminine players like Chris Everett.

    Did Martina complain about Renee Richards attempting to be a trans woman player in the 1970s? According to Wiki, Richards was Martina’s coach. And Richards faced Martina in a professional doubles match.

    Did Martina ever suggest she could play against men? I know Billy Jean King thought she could beat men and had that “rigged” match against Bobby Riggs. But it would be interesting if there were some old quote from Martina suggesting she could compete on the men’s circuit only to now complain about trans women.

  21. “Following her comments in December, Navratilova was criticised by Rachel McKinnon, a Canadian academic and cyclist, who in October became the first transgender woman to win a track world title.”

    ‘Nuff said. I was a fairly successful cyclist in my time, and by 16 years of age I was well aware of the differences between male and female cyclists. Both physically and mentally. Umm, men are stronger physically, as they’re differently endowed with muscle. Gives them rather an advantage.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  22. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

  23. Twinkie says:
    @Anon

    The responses of the Democratic pols to the early reports of the Smollett affair are going to be the gifts that keep giving as the election season opens.

  24. Twinkie says:

    So, Navratilova is a-ok with women filled to the brim with testosterone crushing normal women, but trannies are a bridge too far, eh?

    Sounds like “Just enough for me to win, but not too much for me to lose.”

    Just to make it clear for the moronic segment of the audience here. No, I do not support mentally ill men playing against women. But I also oppose women with PEDs playing against natural women. I am a purist about this kind of a thing, i.e. “fair play.” If it were up to me, anyone caught with PEDs more than once would get a lifetime ban in the sport or any athletic competition. I am looking at you, Jon Jones.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  25. @Hypnotoad666

    I don’t know if Martina is from the Czech or Slovakian part of the old Czecheslovakia…

    One thing these languages have in common is a consistent and strong stress on the opening syllable of a word. Which certainly isn’t the way you hear her name pronounced on TV here. Really, you’d think the Czechoslovaks were really Hungarians or Finns.

    Compare that to closely-related Polish, with penultimate stress as constant as in Tagalog, or Russian, where gender might be easy but stress is infuriatingly unpredictable.

    But it’s probably not in the “DNA” of the language. Gaston Dorren, in Lingo, used a nearby Central European language to demonstrate how some features bleed into a language from the neighbors, despite the tongues being unrelated.

    However, DNA DNA may be involved. David Crystal included in one of his books a gene map of Europe alongside one for the languages where the dental fricative phonemes (TH) survive– Greek, Albanian, Castilian Spanish, Danish, and the major insular tongues. (Like this one.) The maps nearly coincided.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Tipsy
  26. @Twinkie

    The responses of the Democratic pols to the early reports of the Smollett affair are going to be the gifts that keep giving as the election season opens.

    Farmers along the Interstates could make good money renting out billboards for the GOP to post those classic tweets.

  27. Anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:

    Martina is pretty formidable and really hates losing, so if she’s serious about her campaign to save women’s sports, she’s a rare celebrity who might have what it takes to stand up to the widely-feared Ex-Man Lobby.

    Steve,

    One gets the sense reading your post that you support Navratilova and oppose the Ex-Man Lobby. But Navratilova, if successful, will allow women to avoid the costs of globohomo, which women support in every other sphere. It’s like allowing Jews a special carve out with Israel, or allowing them to avoid being counted as a group of their own for purposes of evaluation the “diversity” of institutions.

    These special exceptions shield select groups from the costs of the policies and philosophy they impose on others. Without such insulation, they might join your side.

    • Agree: RationalExpressions
  28. @istevefan

    …feminine players like Chris Everett.

    That’s Evert. As in “everted”:

  29. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    Riggs, according to Taki, threw the match by not playing for months and letting himself go, and bet heavily against himself. Suggesting that if he had been in top form he wasn’t sure he could win, and he liked the sure thing. It would have been an interesting match if it had been genuinely contested.

    Generally the best women players can beat about the 500th best men, seems to be the conventional wisdom.

  30. Anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Those countries can’t spare the people.

    Tyrion 2 with another astute observation.

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  31. tsotha says:
    @Rosie

    It’s mostly the TERFs (Trans-exclusionary Radical Feminists) that lead the way on this issue, and the reason is they’re mostly lesbians who have no use for and quite a bit of antipathy to men.

    In the UK the government is coming down on TERFs with both feet since they’re lower on the stack than trannies. They just arrested a TERF for “deadnaming” a tranny on Twitter.

    • Replies: @Change that Matters
  32. Anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    The responses of the Democratic pols to the early reports of the Smollett affair are going to be the gifts that keep giving as the election season opens.

    You will notice that O’Rourke did not give a response. Is he the one to beat?

    Is there any scenario in which Trump could beat O’Rourke?

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    , @Kaganovitch
  33. @Rosie

    Wouldn’t a lesbian better represent a regular female athlete?

    • LOL: Dieter Kief
  34. @jb

    It’s time for leaders of Western nations to declare a state of emergency: the media/publishing/advertising industries have been taken over by a hostile, parasitical, self-interested group with ties to a foreign nation (Israel). It’s a threat to the autonomy of countries like US, Canada, UK, France, Germany, etc. Time to nationalize, expropriate, and investigate for collusion and treason.

  35. @Reg Cæsar

    Now we just need about 15% of the ethnic Briton population to do the same thing and we’ll be able to keep pace with the Muslims.

  36. Anon7 says:

    I love to see these cracks in the Coalition of the Fringes.

    The fact of the matter is that if there was only one pro tennis tour, for example, and only the top 200 players were permitted to compete in tournaments, you’d never see a female player. Serena Williams would never have ranked higher than world number 700 in her best week. That’s why she says she only wants to play girls.

    Come on guys, do you want that money offered for female athletes? It’s just sitting there on the table! You don’t need to take hormones or change your mode of dress! Just state your new gender identity and then collect that money.

  37. @Libertine75

    So if Ashlee Evans-Smith can knock out the supposedly threateningly dominant Fox– and it was a matter of skill as your praise suggests — then logically Ashlee Evans-Smith is more of a danger, both physically and competitively, to the women already mortally imperiled by Fox than Fox herself.

    I’m actually OK with a ban on trans women participating in women’s sports, if for no other reason than it would deflate a major talking point of anti-trans activists. Securing day-t0-day safety and tolerance far outweighs those who feel a need to participate in competitive sports.

    • Replies: @Libertine75
    , @Federalist
  38. istevefan says:
    @Anonymous

    I thought the woman was able to use the double alleys while Riggs was restricted to the normal dimensions for singles play. If so that would have been a huge advantage for King.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
  39. @Reg Cæsar

    Somewhere, Enoch Powell is quietly pleased.

  40. @istevefan

    Not positive, but I think that was a Connors’ vs. ‘whoever (can’t recall name)’ match.

    • Replies: @Hank Archer
  41. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    They’re the best looking Whites, especially the women which I’m sure you guys appreciate. Except for Jeff Stryker of course who’s never found a White women up to his exacting standards

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  42. @jb

    Member of the Tribe exception, Goys can’t point this out.

  43. @jb

    Member of the Tribe exception, Goys can’t point this out.

  44. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @jb

    As soon as they got off the ferry from Ellis Island 120 years ago the Bolshevik Jews united with blacks then Hispanics then gays then Asians and Muslims against Whites.

    The Jewish attorney media and judge grandsons of the Ellis Islanders created the laws and sentencing guidelines that have allowed blacks to rob beat injure rape and murder Whites with impunity.

    Boo hoo boo hoo boo hoo

  45. @Anony Trans

    One opponent of Fox’s, Tammika Brent’s suffered fractured orbital bone, a concussion, and received 7 staple to the head after one round. The loss to Evans – Smith seems to be the outlier as Fox’s other competitors have remarked about the obvious disparity in power between themselves and Fox . While, on that given night Evans-Smith was the winning fighter that fight was stopped due to position and accumulation of unanswered blows rather than a single devastating blow . Fox’s power advantage against less skilled women would be more prominent . Fighting is a dangerous business no matter who’s involved but to put a woman in with a man elevates that level of danger . Evans – Smith is a more skilled fighter than Fox but not necessarily a more dangerous one to her opponents because the physical disparities. To that point Evans- Smith has never inflicted the kind of damage to an opponent that Fox inflicted upon Brent that night..
    Regarding the safety and tolerance of Trans people I think they deserve that as much as anyone else does. As far as combat sports are concerned though I don’t think we should muddy those waters the stakes are too high and if something tragic were to happen and a trans athlete were responsible it would do their cause much more harm than good .

    • Replies: @Anony Trans
  46. One interesting wrinkle is that Glenn Greenwald is a huge Narvratilova fan to the point of making a documentary about her (it was announced last year, no idea what’s going on with it). Greenwald seems like one of the only leftists who wouldn’t cave to a trans outrage mob.

  47. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    They’re the best looking Whites, especially the women which I’m sure you guys appreciate.

    Czechs or Slovaks? Both men and women?

    What about the Irish?

    • Replies: @theMann
  48. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kibernetika

    But you said their are “mental” differences, too. Which ones did you think you observed?

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
  49. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @SimpleSong

    Trying to calmly argue that men and women are different and thus differences in outcome should be tolerated–that has gotten nowhere. That has been tried for 30, 40 years and has gotten no traction. Why not take a page out of Alinsky and take the denial of biology to its logical extreme, and make the enemy play by their own rules? If gender is not really a biological thing, but just how you feel, then let’s dive into the reductio ad absurdum of M2F trannies pummeling women in sporting contests.

    Right on, SimpleSong. See my comment at #27. Steve’s opposition seems borne out of that naive-idealistic streak he has.

    • Agree: Kylie
  50. Anonym says:
    @reactionry

    * wharf, virgin – From Wiki: “Before departing for Samoa, Mead had a short affair with the linguist Edward Sapir [!]…”

    I am not sure if there are words in the English language to describe such an encounter.

  51. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    not even close.

    500th man smokes them without trying.

  52. “… the widely-feared Ex-Men Lobby.”

    How long before they join the Marvel universe and get a few full-length features? Just don’t try to pass Scarlett Johansson as one of them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  53. @Twinkie

    Are these pro-Smollett-tweets collected somewhere? – This would be a nice illumination of the state of the actual blue-eyed liberal mindset.

  54. Sean says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska

    Jeska was born Michael Jameson went to Lancaster Royal Grammar School where she was a cross-country runner. She went on to Oxford University, where she studied physics, gaining a first.[3]

    Transitioning and fell-running
    In Easter 1998 Jeska came out to her parents as a trans woman, and had a gonadectomy in 2000. She went on to study gender studies at Leeds University. While at Leeds, she took up fell-running, finding immediate success, winning the Blackshaw Head fell race in 2008.[5] She later joined Todmorden Harriers athletics club, and went on to win the 2010 Three Shires Fell Race, the 2011 Liverpool Half Marathon, the 2010, 2011, and 2012 English, and 2012 British Fell Running Championships.[2

    In June 2015 UK Athletics told Jeska that she would be required to provide blood tests to prove that her hormone levels were within normal female range, as there was no documentation for Jeska’s 2000 castration.[3] Jeska found this requirement distressing, and in March 2016 she attacked Knibbs, a former professional rugby player, with a knife because she feared UK Athletics would strip Jeska of her records and her eligibility to compete against female athletes.[2] Jeska also attacked Tim Begley and Kevan Taylor, employees of UKA who came to Knibbs’ aid.

    In March 2017, Jeska was jailed for 18 years for the crimes,[8] which severed nerves in Knibbs’ body leaving him with restricted movement, difficulty eating, and limited vision in both eyes. Jeska is currently serving her sentence at HM Prison Foston Hall, a women’s prison.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  55. sb says:

    Must admit that I do rather enjoy the schadenfreude of Naratilova ( and her sorority sister Billie Jean King ? ) being given plenty of grief for not following the narrative

    They both put a lot of energy into trying to get Margaret Court declared persona non grata for being a ( heterosexual ) wife and mother ,a Christian and an opponent of same sex marriage
    Margaret Court made the mistake of having a tennis career and then moving on to another stage of her life .
    Something these old lezzos are apparently incapable of (they seem incapable of just minding their own business . Dare I suggest that these two do little to enhance pro American sentiments among certain Australians )

  56. @tsotha

    I had to Google “deadnaming”, and after falling into an etymological rabbit hole discovered Graham Linehan (Father Ted, Black Books co-writer) was given a police warning after a complaint by transgender activist late last year for this very same crimespeak. I think I’ve just stumbled on my newest subversive hobby.

  57. Sean says:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/17/martina-navratilova-criticised-over-cheating-trans-women-comments

    Under guidelines introduced by the International Olympic Committee in 2016, trans men are able to compete without restriction, while trans women must demonstrate that their testosterone level has been below a certain cutoff point for at least one year before their first competition.

    Previous guidelines, approved in 2003, required transgender athletes to have reassignment surgery followed by at least two years of hormone therapy in order to be eligible to compete.

    “Simply reducing hormone levels – the prescription most sports have adopted – does not solve the problem,” wrote Navratilova. “A man builds up muscle and bone density, … from childhood.”

    http://rs217.pbsrc.com/albums/cc152/broadwaylamb/FarkSquirrel.jpg~c200

  58. @sb

    Precisely. Navratilova has led the move to rename the Margaret Court Arena in Australia because she is a Christian who takes God’s word seriously.

    Here’s Navratilova in Jun 17: “It is now clear exactly who Court is: an amazing tennis player, and a racist and a homophobe. Her vitriol is not just an opinion. She is actively trying to keep LGBT people from getting equal rights (note to Court: we are human beings, too). She is demonising trans kids and trans adults everywhere.”

    How amusing to discover Navratilova is on the receiving end of exactly the same sort of nonsense now from men LARPing as women.

    Recently, Anna Wintour took up the fight when she was in Australia, calling once again for the Margaret Court Arena to be renamed because Court disagreed with same-sex marriage.

    Navratilova deserves all the grief (and more) coming her way. The outcome of the trannies vs lezzies war is of about as much importance as who won between the zombies and plants. With some luck they’ll wound each other so badly we won’t hear from them again.

    • Agree: Kylie
  59. ““Well, I’ve now done that and, if anything, my views have strengthened,” she wrote.”

    Bravo and Bravo . . .

    of course she makes perfect sense.

  60. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Louis Renault

    ‘Ex-men’ is pretty good. ‘Transformers’ is also one that I like but I guess it’s broader, covering both ways.

    • Replies: @Louis Renault
  61. hold on a minute,

    This,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4565850/Tennis-s-Martina-Navratilova-Margaret-Court-war.html

    is a completely different discussion in every way than whether men should be competing in women’s athletics.

    Laughing.

    I cannot approve of any same sex relational dynamic nor could I could accommodate a female pastor but I think they both would agree that boy and girl, male and female biology matters.

    And i would agree with both of them.

    Miss Navaratilova gets on quite well Miss Chrissie Evert despite their choice of mates.

    And I suspect that all three of these women would challenge the inclusion of men into women’s athletics.

  62. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    I guess wolverine had a lot more done in the weapon x program than the adamantium.

  63. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    Another interesting point about the trans-athlete issue is that it blatantly shoots down the previously growing wrongheaded idea that everyone is actually equal at things and that women and men are physically equal. This idea seemed to be increasingly prevalent among women, some who had been even calling for women to be able to compete in men’s sports or for there to be 1 category instead of 2, and oblivious to the fact that a separate competition for women was carved out precisely because they weren’t competitive against men. But when even second rate men in fancy shoes can enter female competitions and handily beat them again and again it really makes the delusion of equalitarianism of ability go up in smoke.

    God bless intersectionality. If there’s ever going to be any way out of the madness of the last 50 years, it’s going to be through a breakdown of the Coalition of the Fringes by intersectional conflict.

  64. @Anonymous

    Not even close.
    Karsten Braasch was #203 in the world when he trashed both Williams sisters.
    And this was after golfing earlier, drinking beer, and chain smoking.
    The reason why Martina Navratilova is against ex-men is because she knows even the very best female athlete can’t compete against a male one.

  65. Her comments attracted criticism across social media.

    I have zero doubt her comments also attracted support “across social media.”

    How come that isn’t mentioned?

  66. Someone needs to buy a WNBA team and fill it with Jawana Mann’s. I bet they would go nearly undefeated.

    I thought the Riggs/King match showed the ladies could beat (elderly) men?

  67. @Anonymous

    Ah, the famous iSteve anti-prophetism making an early appearance here at the most important blog ever.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  68. Anonymous[408] • Disclaimer says:
    @sb

    I think a lot of women become anti-male as they age because of loss of privileged status in the world. A young woman hugely benefits from her youth, and the power and opportunity it gives her. But that declines as she ages, perhaps somewhere around mid-30s and dropping precipitously from there. Many still try to cling to their youth and all its benefits through hair dying, plastic surgery, etc. but ultimately become frustrated at men over the fact that they have to become mere mortals among everyone else. Rather than recognizing that they benefitted previously from an unearned high status they cast around for who they can blame for their current lot.

  69. @sb

    Man, check out that collar! How did people participate in athletics wearing something like that? It looks like it would put out an eye if the tip flopped up toward one’s face from running anf jumping about. I’m only half joking: it looks genuinely dangerous!

  70. markflag says:
    @Anonymous

    Could have went?????? Try gone.

  71. @Hypnotoad666

    We could use more immigrants from those countries.

    No, the US is full. We do not need any more immigration of any kind. We need mass deportations.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  72. @Anonymous

    But what will we call it when Caitlyn Jenner comes out as a lesbian?

  73. @Change that Matters

    The outcome of the trannies vs lezzies war…

    As Henry K said about the Iran Iraq war, “It’s too bad they both can’t lose.”

  74. @Anony Trans

    Fox is a man and Evans-Smith is a woman. Apparently, Fox is not good enough to compete at the highest level men’s MMA. An elite level male MMA fighter would not lose to a woman. It does not make sense to let men fight women, even if in this particular case the man is occasionally not good enough to defeat a woman.

  75. @istevefan

    Martina did play Jimmy Connors when they were both over the hill. She got the doubles court to hit into and he only got one serve. They both played bad, but he won something like 6.2, 6.2. And he was being generous! I think Seles or Graf at that time could have taken a few games off Connors under those rules without him being generous.

    If anything the male-female gap has increased today given the increased reliance on power. The women’s game has suffered more than the men’s from equipment changes allowing easier ground strokes, leading to an extremely monotonous (male imitating) style in the women’s game today. A nice case of how gender difference worked out better for everyone in the past.

  76. theMann says:
    @Anonymous

    Joke popular when I was a kid:

    What do you call an Irish girl who is pretty?

    Incredibly lucky!

    Seriously, there is no absolute, objective standard of beauty, and tastes can really differ, but the “black celt” standard of beauty, almost irredescant black hair, very light skin, and blue to violet eyes, seems particularly striking ON CAMERA, which tends to distort. If only Welsh girls would keep their weight down……

    Then again Holland and Italy seem to have a lot of beauties too..

  77. @Change that Matters

    Thanks for this comment. Adds a whole new perspective to the affair. The revolution eats its own.

  78. @Hypnotoad666

    Former (Czech).

    “something in the DNA of East Europeans ”

    I only wish some kind of genetic immunity was conferred. The simpler reason: having emerged from Soviet totalitarianism, Visegrad countries are simply not eager to rush into the arms of the brainwashed ideology of equalism and Diversity.

  79. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack Hanson

    Ah, the famous iSteve anti-prophetism making an early appearance here at the most important blog ever.

    That’s “prophetism”, Hanson. Ignore it at your peril.

  80. @Sean

    A lot of men who want to be considered women still seem to retain the aggression of a male. Still, I imagine Michael Jameson/Lauren Jeska will have a whale of a time in a women’s prison.

    • Replies: @Sean
  81. Rosie says:
    @sb

    Must admit that I do rather enjoy the schadenfreude of Naratilova ( and her sorority sister Billie Jean King ? ) being given plenty of grief for not following the narrative

    And this is precisely why I’d rather have normal cishet women speaking out about this. There’s too much childish spite (nana nana boohoo!) surrounding this issue and the message gets lost.

  82. @Libertine75

    That’s actually a refreshingly good-faith response. You couldn’t pay me to watch combat sports, so I admit I know nothing about it. Your comment simply seemed to have a logical disconnect without further clarification, which you provided.

    My main rebuttal would be that from looking up their records there’s a low sample size. Fox’s blow in question may have been an outlier combination of factors. Evans-Smith might well be capable of inflicting such damage or more, but simply hasn’t through randomness.

    I ultimately see the precautionary sense in that the risk of harming a biological woman is too great to merit trans inclusion for what is an elective and outlier career/interest. Trans women who went through a female puberty would be a different matter.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Sean
  83. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    ROTFL. I totally support Ex-Men in women’s sports. Feminism deserves this. If women can do anything men can do, men can do anything women can do(as ‘women’). Feminism has been saying this, that, and everything is just a ‘social construct’. It promoted the notion of ‘gender’ over the reality of sexes. They made the bed; let them sleep in it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  84. @Dtbb

    A coach and opponent are 2 things.

  85. she’s an ultra dominant hulk woman who wins and expects to win, so she probably won’t back down just because she lost the first set. which is what appears to be happening. looks like she’s ready to fight with the cultural marxists, land punches, and come back for more when they try to shut her down.

    she probably thinks that they’re more like a couple games into the second set whereas the leftist enforcers thought they already had this little battle won.

  86. “I don’t know if Martina is from the Czech or Slovakian part of the old Czecheslovakia, but something in the DNA of East Europeans seems to confer an immunity to the political correctness virus.”

    they also have no automatic, reflexive fear of african athletes, that western european athletes seem to mostly have. so they just go out to play and win if they can. NFL would be a good amount different if europe played football as well as football. they already completely changed boxing.

    italians seem to have the same thing. like slavs, they never absorbed leftist conditioning.

    it’s unfortunate to see the MAGA adminstration putting non-poz nations natural revulsion to the globohomo agenda in the crosshairs. a ludicrous nonsense initiative. the kind of thing you expected the incoming kamala harris administration to do. instead, trump wants to lead the worldwide crusade against homosexuals being elevated to the most celebrated humans. what complete twaddle. even as an anti-iran angle, it’s twaddle.

  87. @Twinkie

    The responses of the Democratic pols to the early reports of the Smollett affair are going to be the gifts that keep giving as the election season opens.

    No.

    They area a two-steps away kind of thing. “Oh look they were quick to jump on the bandwagon. Of what sure looks like an obvious fraud.” It only has impact if you already believe that this was an *obvious* fraud, which it was, but it’s obviousness is censored by the long censored by the media–by the long history of censoring by the media.

    If these tweets, which require a couple of steps of thought to register their egregiousness, were a problem, then immigration–order of magnitude more important–where their open borders position is in one-step of thought obviously a disaster, would be utterly devastating.

    The truth is, after 50 or 60 years of continual propaganda, the West–and America in particular–is a place where our establishment figures routinely espouse stuff that is rationally, logically, mathematically egregiously stupid and destructive.

    ~

    I’m not saying these tweets couldn’t be useful. But to really make them useful, much less “a gift”, Trump would have to do a bunch of anti-minoritarian “reality check” work which he has shown absolutely no interest in doing. In fact, Trump has just signed the “Child Trafficer Recruitment and Citizenship Act”. Now he’s going to go out on a jihad against anti-white politicians?

  88. @Anon

    Bad sign for Harris.

    Granted there’s a problem that kool-aid drinkers have a problem assessing actual reality. Still i don’t believe that every campaign would be that stupid\incompetent. The Democrats are *evil*, not stupid.

    I’m not a political guy at all, and if i was her campaign manager\advisor i’d have had her ready for this. (It’s trivial to do even with all the PC spin.) So either Harris is incapable of taking simple advice\coaching. Or she has a campaign advisor who was too stupid to offer it–suggesting Harris is a disaster at getting quality people. Or the whole campaign really is full of kool-aid drinkers who live in bubble world of leftist talking points far removed from reality. Plus she’s obviously incompetent at what should be easy “thinking on your feet”.

    Presumably the money people assess this sort of poor performance when figuring out what horse to back.

  89. “They’re the best looking Whites, especially the women which I’m sure you guys appreciate.”

    yes, the women from central europe. czechia, slovakia, hungary. they’re the best looking women in the world, on average. of course other nations have a lot more people, so there’s more good looking women in total elsewhere, but those are the averages.

    the current generation of korean women are among the hottest in the world now, woman for woman. it’s clearly not only due to plastic surgery, which they’re also into as well. koreans are ultra obsessed with looks, it’s socially required to look as good as possible even for employment, and this must have had a long term selection effect over a thousand years. probably the same with polish women and why their breasts are so big on average. and various other women around the world. more pressure on them over a thousand years to go in a certain direction.

    • Replies: @Anon
  90. MrLiberty says:

    ONLY WOMEN are going to be able to stop this insane wave in its tracks. Nobody gives a damn what men say on the subject, as women pretending to be men are NOT going to have an advantage in sports, and men are NOT the ones being harmed by this disturbing movement.

    ALL women need to step up and speak out, because it will be THEIR daughters, sisters, etc. who will lose out in the future. They will be the ones losing their athletic scholarships, college opportunities, and even Olympic medals to cheating men in the future. So-called transgenders should ONLY be allowed to compete among each other. They can call it the “Extra-Special Olympics.”

  91. AndrewR says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Uh, Castilian definitely has the ð sound. In fact it’s far more commonly used than the θ sound, which is essentially non-existent in Latin American dialects. All dialects of Castilian use the ð sound for the letter “d” after a vowel.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Anonymous
  92. Sean says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Oxford First in Physics

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/is-transgenderism-an-autism-spectrum-disorder/

    I have a vague hunch that the growth of the transgender movement is somehow related to the Nerd Liberation movement, which was the most unexpected successful identity movement of my lifetime. It’s not clear if autism, Asperger’s, and/or nerdism is becoming more common, but it’s definitely more of an identity than it once was.

    There has been a little research into this subject, breaking trans people up into three main categories:

    – Effeminate early transitioning male to female trans individuals (ladyboys) are of course not very nerdy at all. They tend to be people persons (e.g., prostitutes) and not big on logic.

    – Female to male trans are very nerdy.

    – Late transitioning masculine male to female trans people (the Wachowskis, the baseball stats person, my MBA school teammate, the economist, etc.) tend to be at least as nerdy as the average man and much more nerdy than the average woman.

  93. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    They made the bed; let them sleep in it.

    Steve doesn’t seem to appreciate that forcing them to live up to their own rules may be the best route to changing the rules.

  94. @Chris Mallory

    No, the US is full. We do not need any more immigration of any kind. We need mass deportations.

    Agree.

    Get tired of hearing “i’ll take ’em from there”. It’s ridiculous, and unnatural. “Immigration” is unnatural. You don’t give up your land to other people.

    What we actually had in America was “conquest”. Anglo-Saxons taking territory from the natives and letting in more of their and similar people’s to get the job done. (And when the frontier closed that should have been it.)

    We’ve got 325 million now and climbing, near twice what we had when i was born. We don’t need one single solitary immigrant. (European peoples are needed in their own nations.) We need to get undesirables to leave, and suppress their fertility. And get eugenic fertility restored.

    But more people coming in–ridiculous. This real estate is for our posterity.

  95. Sean says:
    @Anony Trans

    Those blade runners that were entering sprint events were thought to be under a handicap until one out of a handful managed to come surprisingly close to the world record. The definite feeling is now is they have been all but proven to have an advantage with blades instead of feet. I don;t know how many trans-women have to become world champions before it is recognized to be an advantage, but I do know than elite women athletes would become very discouraged long before then.

    Until 2016 the IOC required transgender athletes to have reassignment surgery. I think the post 2016 international Olympic regulations for sport that seem to allow male to females transsexuals to compete with women in events for women even though these self styled transsexuals have NOT had their testicles removed brought the thing to a head with female athletes.

    The blocking of testosterone by drugs may or may not be equivalent to orchiectomy, but I think female athletes are protesting injustice because no matter how many hormone blockers they take, someone with their original set of nuts should not be entering a women’s competition.

  96. Tipsy says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    A Czech tongue twister:

    Třistatřicet tři stříbrných stříkaček stříkalo přes třistatřicet tři stříbrných střech

    333 silver nozzles squirted (water) through 333 silver roofs

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  97. (((Anna Kournikova)))

    at the peak of her pulchritude

    and playing naked

    would have destroyed any male player in straight sets.

  98. Sean says:
    @Anony Trans

    I would add that ,,, genital surgery is purely cosmetic with trans people, the influence of cross-sex hormones is very biologically real

    Hmm I am not sure about that because orchiectomy is irreversible in a way that drugs are not. One is realer than the other. The problem is female athletes foresee no way to stop a transwoman that met the IOC’a requirements for hormone levels entering a women’s competition with his family jewels intact, but female levels of testosterone ect due to hormone blocking drug, and win it as a woman under the IOC rules, but then come off the drugs and become a full functioning and reproducing man. Martina has an excellent point there.

  99. Unless sports, stops being a public affair, men are certainly entitled to have a say.

    That would be double for those sports in our public institutions.

  100. The LPGA has handled this correctly for years. Their rules state that to compete in LPGA events, you have to have been born female.

  101. dfordoom says: • Website

    Martina is pretty formidable and really hates losing, so if she’s serious about her campaign to save women’s sports

    I can see why she wants to save women’s sports. I don’t see why I should care about saving women’s sports. In fact I’m looking forward to the complete trashing of women’s sports. It might be a valuable lesson to women. If you support insanity like the LGBT agenda (which women have enthusiastically supported) you have to expect to pay the price for such mad ideas.

    I want to see lots more trannies at Wimbledon. I want to see every single major women’s tennis tournament won by men in skirts. I want to see every single major women’s golf tournament won by men in skirts. I want to see every single gold medal in women’s events at the next Olympics won by men in skirts.

  102. @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    Who is Michael Jordan compared to Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?

  103. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hypnotoad666

    I don’t know if Martina is from the Czech or Slovakian part of the old Czecheslovakia, but something in the DNA of East Europeans seems to confer an immunity to the political correctness virus.

    Martina has supported the PC agenda for decades. She just doesn’t want lesbians to have to pay a price for that agenda. She wants women’s tennis to remain a lesbian safe space.

  104. @South Texas Guy

    Conners v Navratilova. I think the match was a Ceasar’s Tahoe.

  105. @Anonymous

    Ah, yes, sorry about that. Now I’m boxed in and need to bump elbows and get positioned for the sprint 😉

    But there’s a thing about mentally handling reaction to physical suffering, with all due respect. Perhaps things have changed, but nature/reality eventually strikes back.

    We couldn’t ever get IRB approval for such a study, but imagine n=100 tween-aged biological females and males getting punched in the face, and then being challenged to get up and fight back. OK, and measure the effectiveness of the fighting back for extra credit.

    Post-combat, ask about worries of nasal deformation.

  106. BB753 says:

    And to think that for many years we weren’t sure whether Navratilova herself had a penis!

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  107. @AndrewR

    I couldn’t find the map Crystal used, and that was the next best available.

    Danish’s ð is also post- or intervocalic, but is made with the bottom front teeth. It’s quite unique in the world.

  108. @Tipsy

    I always liked their “Stick your finger in your neck,” in which the only vowels are the Rs.

  109. @BB753

    I think you meant speaking for yourself.

  110. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer

    Long time ago a Chinese man told me Korean women were considered the most beautiful of Asian women. I started noticing and yes, Koreans men and women are better looking than other Asians

  111. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:
    @AndrewR

    “Jose” in Spanish is pronounced ho-they

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