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This Week's Google Code Jam Won by a Male for Umpteenth Straight Time
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Sport computer programming superstar Gennady Vladimirovich Korotkevich of Belarus won the 2017 Google Code Jam world finals in Dublin yesterday. This marks the fourth straight year Korotkevich, who looks a little like QB Tom Brady, has won Google’s programming tournament.

Also, this marks the 14th time in 14 years that a man has won the Google-sponsored contest. In fact, I am told, all the finalists ever in the history of Google’s event (there were 20 finalists flown in by Google to its Dublin office this year), have been guys. (Note that I haven’t been able to check that myself.) *

Commenter Candid Observer points out an interesting comment on Brooks’ NY Times column:

neal Westmont 34 minutes ago

Observation: Google has run a coding competition (Code Jam) since 2003. It attracts tens of thousands of applicants now, Including thousands of woman to compete in a multiple round contest leading up to a feld of 20 finalists. This is a “hard” advance competition – no bonus points awarded for, say, for lacking a penis. Google has used it to identify their best and brightest job prospects.

There has never been a female finalist. Ever. Unless you count “Code Jam for Women”, rolled out in 2014.

Probability alone would say that if only 5-10% of entrants were woman, and they were as likely to to have the same skill sets and ability as men, that we should have seen a female finalist by now. The numbers actually match nicely with the list of top Chess players, only which only 1 woman can really say she could/can compete at the highest level. None of this say anything about any individual male or female, other than that testing and real world competition have shown that in (at least) certain mathematical and spatial cognition tasks, there are far more men than women who are above average to the tune of multiple standard deviations. No doubt there are other tasks where men are more likely to appear on the low end. But that is not a useful and employable skill set at google.

* Update: Commenter Jimmyriddle points out that, judging by the picture of the 25 Google Code Jam finalists in 2011, one finalist appears to be a girl. So it’s probably an exaggeration to say that all the Google finalists ever have been male.

 
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  1. I’ll bet there were no NAM finalists either. I work remotely with a couple of Russian guys and they are really good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    What is good about them?
    , @George
    Google presents handles not names and nationality not ethnicity, but there are plenty of Asian flags. There was a time Russians were dismissed as 'Asiatics'.

    https://code.google.com/codejam/contest/7234486/scoreboard
    , @Alfa158
    On a quick search, the Code Jam website has a group photo of the finalists. It is taken from a bad angle, which makes it hard to see everyone, but from what I can see, there are no NAMs. About half are Whites and the other half various Asians. That's pretty interesting considering that Whites are a tiny percentage both of people worldwide, and of people studying engineering and science.
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Proof there's a glass ceiling. (/sarc)
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  2. @Jim Don Bob
    I'll bet there were no NAM finalists either. I work remotely with a couple of Russian guys and they are really good.

    What is good about them?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    We are writing a 64 bit version of our application. The current 32 bit version is a mixture of C, hand-crafted assembler from 25 years ago, and an internally developed "meta" language that describes the model and figures out how to call the assembler.

    These two Russian guys love C. But they picked up the above quite quickly and are having a great time writing the new 64 bit version entirely in C. Interestingly enough, the new version is still not that much faster than the 32 bit version, but we/they are still in the make it work phase of "make it work, make it right, make it faster".

    These two guys were part of a 3 man team that did a product that eventually got bought by Google. The lead guy came to the USA and is working for Google. The other two like living where they are some 400 km from Moscow and working for what we pay them. It also helps that they are still in their thirties, full of piss and vinegar, and believe they can do anything. I used to be that way; now I am wiser. Otherwise known as old and tired.
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  3. Clyde says:

    I work remotely with a couple of Russian guys and they are really good.

    Russians made Israel into a high tech mini super power. High tech med devices and other high tech med is a very strong export sector for them.

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  4. My son did tons of chess tournaments all over Northern CA and 6 programming competitions at HP and Stanford. Both types of events are overwhelmingly male (chess more so than programming) and the winners are always males. The guy who won the HP codewars is a friend of ours and the geekiest guy you can imagine. The winners in chess are usually Indian or Russian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Ah, my son now informs me that he participated in Code Jam twice. I guess it's all on line. He made it to the 2nd round once (out of 3 rounds, then the final) but didn't have time to participate further.
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  5. OT, but we may have hit peak woke. Bonus points for including a boot stamping on a human face, if not forever, at least for the Current Year:

    twitter.com/xychelsea/status/896235475853357060

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  6. That smart White guy brings to mind a good point that us regular IQ Whites need to remember. When the struggle for political power really lets loose, it will be important to gain control of the electronics of the American Empire. Internet, satellites, computers, electrical power systems, cable, the monetary system and more are all run by electronics.

    The American Empire is an electronic empire. White Core Americans will require the services of high IQ Whites to run the electronics when the time comes. You say the American Empire is about oil? I say bullshit, it is about electronics. You can use the electronics to render the oil pointless.

    The global reserve currency is the dollar. The dollar is nothing more than an electronic currency conjured up out of thin air.

    Electronic propaganda controls the media message and agenda in the American Empire. The key to controlling the propaganda apparatus in the American Empire is to control the electronics.

    White Core Americans would do well to remember that he who controls the electronics will control the American Empire.

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  7. Around 70% of retards are male. While deplorable, they’re hardly ever deplored, much less are they of interest. Others are, which turns out to be a problem.

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  8. O(n)T, but, I’m not sure how to paste in a picture on unz, so I hope you all don’t mind another link:

    Goolag Search for the Truth.

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  9. 1. There are 25 finalists each year, not 20.

    2. There was a female finalist in 2005 and 2006, though Google did take 100 finalists those years.

    3. As for NAMs, Sergio Sancho of Argentina not only made the finals but won first prize outright in 2004.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    3. As for NAMs, Sergio Sancho of Argentina not only made the finals but won first prize outright in 2004.
     
    He's not a NAM.
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  10. Ben Frank says:

    Hatefacts. Look at the comments at WaPo, there are so many about fighting the white males.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kevin C.

    Look at the comments at WaPo, there are so many about fighting the white males.
     
    And they've got a lot more power and institutions backing them up.
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  11. George says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    I'll bet there were no NAM finalists either. I work remotely with a couple of Russian guys and they are really good.

    Google presents handles not names and nationality not ethnicity, but there are plenty of Asian flags. There was a time Russians were dismissed as ‘Asiatics’.

    https://code.google.com/codejam/contest/7234486/scoreboard

    Read More
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  12. Since there was no economic case for ever importing even one Hindu Legal Immigrant and even one one Chinese Legal Immigrant(especially the lone Chinese Legal Immigrant in Virginia who introduced the first pregnant Chinese Snake Head Fish into the riparian ecosystems of the bucolic Shenandoah Valley in the 1990′s)……why are thousands of Hindu and Chinese Legal Immigrants being imported into our America? Does anybody have an answer?

    ANSWER:Because Hindu “Americans” and Chinese “Americans” want to make sure that what happened in 1969 never never happens again….America 1969:90 percent Native Born White America places two Alpha Native Born White American Males on the Moon…Native Born White American Women still popping out Native Born White American babies….which really pissed of Paul and Anne Ehrlich…

    Support Labor self-sufficiency…support severe labor scarcities….that’s if you support a high real-wage economy for the Historic Native Born White American Working Class…

    When America was Labor self-sufficient post WW2…America 90 percent White Folks….who would be opposed to this?…The Hindus over at Google?

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  13. This was predicted in the Beatles song, “Come Together” with the line

    “Hold you in his Code Jam you can feel his disease”.

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  14. songbird says:

    That was before they spent millions on outreach. Once the current crop of little girls ages upwards… but in all seriousness, this is just evidence for the elite end. What they really should do is break up all their current employees into small gender and race-segregated teams and have them compete with each other. Since there are fewer women, they will have more chances to beat male teams. Ditto for blacks and Hispanics.

    The question of is everyone the same is a relatively easy one to answer, even without relying on any external research. Of course, it is not one that they want answered

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  15. Boudicca says:

    To reiterate:

    A full 20 years ago, the very best biological chess player was defeated by a machine. (“1997, Deep Blue was heavily upgraded and played Kasparov, becoming the first machine to defeat a reigning world champion. Kasparov accused IBM of cheating and demanded a rematch. IBM refused and retired Deep Blue.”) Ergo, the core narrative is not XX versus XY but human versus machine. Machines are already programming other machines. The distance between machine language and natural language is shrinking. Machines can already be controlled by natural language (e.g. Siri). Natural language can control humans (e.g. propaganda). Ergo, command of natural language is the most important skill. Hence, the relentless attack on language by SJW. Sadly, many Aspie-types aren’t good with natural language. Sadly, this is why 50 Shades of Grey has more societal influence than 99.9% of XYs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    A full 20 years ago, the very best biological chess player was defeated by a machine. (“1997, Deep Blue was heavily upgraded and played Kasparov, becoming the first machine to defeat a reigning world champion. Kasparov accused IBM of cheating and demanded a rematch.
     
    Cheating? What does that even mean in that context?
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  16. He sort of looks like a nerdy Tom Brady.

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    • Agree: ben tillman
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  17. Alfa158 says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    I'll bet there were no NAM finalists either. I work remotely with a couple of Russian guys and they are really good.

    On a quick search, the Code Jam website has a group photo of the finalists. It is taken from a bad angle, which makes it hard to see everyone, but from what I can see, there are no NAMs. About half are Whites and the other half various Asians. That’s pretty interesting considering that Whites are a tiny percentage both of people worldwide, and of people studying engineering and science.

    Read More
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  18. Kylie says:

    Maybe Google should offer a Making Jam Contest for the distaff side.

    Read More
    • LOL: Negrolphin Pool
    • Replies: @Steve in Greensboro
    Or maybe an "Eating Jam Contest" for the feminists.
    , @Lurker
    Excellent!
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  19. Jack D says:

    Many orchestras do their auditions “blind” – the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn’t make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) – musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible “disparate impact” suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that’s who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW’s won’t go for this because they really don’t care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like “empathy”. But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this – Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how “great” the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally – imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music).

    What makes for musical skill (or talent rather?)? What are its characteristics? What does it correlate with?
    , @Peripatetic commenter
    They will never do this for the simple reason that they now how it will turn out: Against the narrative and reinforcing pernicious prejudices.
    , @Wilbur Hassenfus
    You can't protect yourself against disparate impact that way because that kind of rigorously fair hiring is exactly what DI was invented in response to. DI doctrine holds that the only measure of discrimination is the result. If 300 lb black ladies -- or anybody other than straight white men -- are underrepresented, you're guilty.
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) – musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music)."

    Lies.

    Last time I saw the Los Angeles Philharmonic, they had just one NAM: a very light-skinned Black woman, a violist -- I rode the elevator down with her (and a few other musicians) as we were leaving the concert hall.

    Last time I saw the Seattle Symphony, they had one NAM: their timpanist, a Black man.

    The Oregon Symphony (based in Portland) has one very light-skinned Black woman, a cellist, and no other NAMs.

    The San Bernardino Symphony, which I saw many years ago, had one NAM: a Black male violinist.

    Orchestras and classical musicians are almost entirely Whites and Asians, as are their audiences. Classical music is complex, and thus appeals to people with high IQs.

    Now I don't trust anything else you've written and won't bother reading it. Congrats.
    , @Alden
    If Google tried that it would be shot down by state, federal and probable even county fair employment and equal opportunity agencies because of disparate impact.

    Disparate impact has been around since Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Weber in the 1970s. Numerous judges and government civil rights agencies have ruled that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to Whites.

    Google and the rest of the Santa Clara tech companies prefer to hire Indians and Asians instead of Whites anyway.
    , @Negrolphin Pool

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races
     
    The only NAM concert pianist I'm aware of is the mulatto Andre Watts, who's quite good. Jews have always been heavily overrepresented among concert pianists and, increasingly, East Asians are now.
    That doesn't prove anything but it would be a strange coincidence if there wasn't a large G component there. We might expect ahead of time that mastery of an instrument where 12+ notes can be played simultaneously may require more cognitive ability than, say, a saxophone. Is that idea bolstered by looking at violinists? I think so.

    Also, regarding hiring by fire, unless the coding tasks are more or less exactly what the applicants will be doing on the job, an unlikely scenario for all but a small fraction of job prospects, such a practice would seem to be a straightforward violation of Griggs vs. Duke Power.
    , @Anonym
    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that’s who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Golden tickets hidden in chocolate bars would be more likely to pass disparate impact tests, and be more entertaining to boot. Those who stray from Brin's tour would have chilling, life altering things happen to them (e.g. unauthorised driverless car rides, writing memos based on truth that go viral might turn you into a giant virus for example), then be taken away by small brown Goompah Loompahs. The one applicant who remains controls the direction of the company.
    , @larry lurker

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races
     
    I think it depends on the music. You're not going to be writing four-part fugues with an IQ of 100, and you're probably not going to be very good at performing them either. But you'd be fine in a church choir.

    Jews are very much overrepresented among the great pianists, as they are in chess, so that's conspicuous. (Vladimir Horowitz: "There are three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists.")

    Here's Martha Argerich, whose maternal grandparents were Russian Jews, performing my favorite all-white note passage of all time, starting at 5:46: Martha Argerich - Prokofiev - Piano Concerto No 3 - Previn (Soon-Yi's father conducts)
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  20. @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music).

    What makes for musical skill (or talent rather?)? What are its characteristics? What does it correlate with?

    Read More
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  21. No doubt there are other tasks where men are more likely to appear on the low end. But that is not a useful and employable skill set at google.

    Poor, deluded bastard.

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  22. James Damore, in one of his interviews, says that he himself was recruited by Google on the basis of his performance on a similar kind of competition, a puzzle solving contest sponsored by Google. He said he achieved semi-finalist status. (FWIW, he also said that in his most recent performance review, he got the top rating, which only a few percent of Googler’s attain.)

    I looked online for a list of the finalists or semi-finalists of that puzzle contest, and couldn’t find any. Likewise, I couldn’t find a list of the finalists in the Code Jam competition, and couldn’t find any.

    One wonders why these lists don’t pop up immediately in, say, a Google search.

    Imagine a world in which half of the people on those lists were women.

    Do you think it would be hard to find those lists online?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Olorin
    When a company like Google spends that much money devising a recruitment test for the high end skills it specifically needs--in order to sift through humanity for a specifically useful subset of carbon units most likely to arrive ready to do the job--the last thing it would ever do is share it publicly for other companies to poach from.

    This of course raises yet another possibility: how to get rid of workers difficult to jettison by other means.

    PR has many uses.

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  23. anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer

    The “Code Jam” should follow this example from Minneapolis:

    The lineup of speakers for the Loft Literary Center’s conference on writing for children and young adults was stellar. William Alexander, winner of a National Book Award. Kelly Barnhill, winner of the Newbery Medal. Phyllis Root, author of more than 40 books for children. And 19 others.

    Other than Alexander, who is Cuban-American, every writer who agreed to speak was white. And so, just days after announcing it, the Loft in Minneapolis canceled the Oct. 20-21 conference.

    “We have set a goal for ourselves to be inclusive and to work toward equity, and we didn’t think the conference would live up to that mission,” Britt Udesen, executive director of the Loft, said Wednesday. “We made a mistake.”

    Complaints from the public — Udesen declined to say how many, or who — helped prompt the decision to cancel the Children’s and Young Adult Literature (CYA) Conference. Another factor was dwindling interest in the event, which has been held at least every other year since 2003. Only 13 people had registered for this year’s conference.

    The jam should be canceled until it is woke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    The lineup of speakers for the Loft Literary Center’s conference on writing for children and young adults was stellar. William Alexander, winner of a National Book Award. Kelly Barnhill, winner of the Newbery Medal. Phyllis Root, author of more than 40 books for children. And 19 others.

    Other than Alexander, who is Cuban-American, every writer who agreed to speak was white.
     

    By what definition? If Alexander's ancestors lost their whiteness by setting foot on the island of Cuba, why didn't the rest of the authors lose their whiteness by virtue of their ancestors setting foot on North America?

    God, these people are fantastically stupid.

    , @Karl
    21 anonymous > “We have set a goal for ourselves to sell enough tickets for the organizers to get a strong bullet point towards making tenure, and we didn’t think the conference would live up to that mission,”

    pardon my freelance translation
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  24. Today on Twitter, “Women In Tech Brag Day” unintentionally demonstrates through pictures and user profiles the high proportion of transsexual, lesbian and unfeminine women in computer programming.

    http://twitter.com/hashtag/WITBragDay?src=hash

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    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Not fair lumping those categories together. Transsexuals are actually men. Lesbians are man-haters/fearers who will eventually come around. Unfeminine could describe pretty much any woman at some point. Most unfeminine women will find a husband.
    , @El Dato
    Please, please tell me this is some kind of joke

    "I took my first ever programming course in 2011 at age 46 . I am now a tenure track professor of Computer Information Systems."
     
    What the ACTUAL FCUCK! What is even going on out there? It's a fricking asylum of incompetence!
    , @JW
    I wonder if these Women in Tech causes push out normal feminine women. One of my old teammates was a 10/10 smart hottie with kids and it's very hard to think she'd fit in with the Women in Tech crowd.
    , @Olorin
    Women in Tech brag about their self-constructed narratives/bios, their institutional/organizational positions, and their pregnancies.

    Men in Tech brag "Hey, I built this!"

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  25. Off topic…but relevant:

    Notwithstanding an injunction by a Federal Judge to allow Richard Spencer and the Alt Right to hold a rally in Charlottesville…local police…and USAF Police came in with force and violence and shut down the Alt Right rally in Charlottesville…..

    Get used to the fact that we really are in a civil war….

    Read More
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  26. szopen says:

    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two? That’s 9 for “northern” Slavs, 3 places for East Asians, one for Sweden, one for Argentine. Since 1st and 2nd places are not that far in terms of ability, we can look at those too: 3 for “northern” Slavs, 4 for East Asians. For the 3rd place: 8 for “northern” Slavs, 2 for “East Asians”.

    You may also want to take a look at Microsoft Imagine Cup. Because there are teams there, there were women in winning teams (some were my students, actually – not in a sense I was their tutor in the competition, but that I was teaching them one or two courses).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two? That’s 9 for “northern” Slavs, 3 places for East Asians, one for Sweden, one for Argentine. Since 1st and 2nd places are not that far in terms of ability, we can look at those too: 3 for “northern” Slavs, 4 for East Asians. For the 3rd place: 8 for “northern” Slavs, 2 for “East Asians”.

    Belarus had the most? I guess you had to be a genius to survive ww2's battleground and come out alive.
    , @International Jew
    Four of Belarus' five wins are from just this one guy.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Yes. That's interesting.

    The obvious weakness of saying that you're going to choose the best programmers via a competition is that women might not be attracted to competing.
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  27. You can also look at Kaggle rankings. There are very few women in the top 500.

    Kaggle runs tons of data science competitions and was recently bought out by Google. They currently have a competition for airport passenger screening with a $500,000 first place prize.

    I quickly perused the top 250ish and didn’t see any women. (Perhaps 230th place is a woman.) Someone with a better familiarity of Asian names might see more.

    https://www.kaggle.com/rankings

    Read More
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  28. @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    They will never do this for the simple reason that they now how it will turn out: Against the narrative and reinforcing pernicious prejudices.

    Read More
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  29. Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks for that. A sample:

    According to Chuck, the predictive model they created determined that employees who received mixed feedback at the interview stage performed far better than those who received only good feedback.

    Those who were most likely to receive only good feedback (“inflated interview scores,” in the words of Chuck) tended to be Ivy League graduates or underrepresented minorities. Those who were most likely to receive mixed feedback (and, according to the model, go on to achieve the most success at Google) were more likely to be white and Asian men who did not go to Ivy League schools.

    The insider’s team had been tasked with the project by Google’s HR department, but according to him, they promptly shut it down once they realized its results would not serve their goals.
     
    I hope Damore's case makes it to discovery.
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  30. @academic gossip
    Today on Twitter, "Women In Tech Brag Day" unintentionally demonstrates through pictures and user profiles the high proportion of transsexual, lesbian and unfeminine women in computer programming.

    http://twitter.com/hashtag/WITBragDay?src=hash

    Not fair lumping those categories together. Transsexuals are actually men. Lesbians are man-haters/fearers who will eventually come around. Unfeminine could describe pretty much any woman at some point. Most unfeminine women will find a husband.

    Read More
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  31. @Kylie
    Maybe Google should offer a Making Jam Contest for the distaff side.

    Or maybe an “Eating Jam Contest” for the feminists.

    Read More
    • LOL: Kylie
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  32. carol says:

    OT.

    I think alt right may have jumped the shark today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    In Alt-Right America, shark jumps you!
    , @bomag

    I think alt right may have jumped the shark today
     
    Regarding what? The Virginia riots?
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  33. @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    You can’t protect yourself against disparate impact that way because that kind of rigorously fair hiring is exactly what DI was invented in response to. DI doctrine holds that the only measure of discrimination is the result. If 300 lb black ladies — or anybody other than straight white men — are underrepresented, you’re guilty.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    No, disparate impact theory shifts the presumption of guilt to the employer. But employers can overcome that burden. A lot of them go to the trouble and expense of doing so.
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  34. Rod1963 says:

    All the Code Jam questions from previous years are at:

    https://code.google.com/codejam/past-contests

    They should be doable for some of the readers here.

    I looked at the 2016 final question. It’s a dozy and you only get 4 hr’s to solve it. But I can see why Google used it. Any guy who can solve is the sort they would want.

    Though I can’t think why any smart ethical man would even have anything to with Google. Then there is the cost of living in the area which negates the pay in many instances(which isn’t all that impressive considering the price of housing). Look a $160k isn’t bad but not good either.

    I can’t see why a white guy would work for a company that is going to replace him with a Bombay Babu sooner or later.

    Then there’s the housing situation which sucks in the extreme.

    I know techs at Lockheed who pull down that and all they have are 2 year degree. Even the mechanics can pull six figures with OT and housing is much more affordable.

    .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    Of course, those contests use such pathetic languages as C++, Java and Python.
    , @ben tillman

    All the Code Jam questions from previous years are at:

    https://code.google.com/codejam/past-contests
     

    Gosh, are we sure that doesn't violate Griggs?
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  35. This is a list of past winners for Google’s Code Jam:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Code_Jam

    Not only are they all male, but notice also not a single Indian coder has ever won 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in this competition, EVER. Every single winner is either white(and mostly Eastern European) or East Asian(Chinese/Japanese).

    This is consistent with the NSA coding contest results. Each year the winners are either Chinese or Russian. Not a single Indian coder ever made it to the finalist.

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/2525109/app-development/china-dominates-nsa-backed-coding-contest.html

    So why do we continue to refer to Indians as “best and brightest” and “highly skilled”, and continue to give them vast majority of our H1b visas? Time for a wake up call on these chest thumping scammers of the East.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    33 American Stupidity > the NSA coding contest


    oh, you guys do that, too?

    https://www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&client=opera&hs=fKC&q=מגשימים+8200&oq=מגשימים+8200&gs_l=psy-ab.3...5837.8754.0.11326.2.2.0.0.0.0.922.1520.5-1j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.YuyzS02JJf4

    or just copy/paste this into your search bar: 8200 מגשימים


    google will offer to translate results for you


    by the way.......

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/for-hack-contest-winners-a-ticket-into-unit-8200/


    well, look at that...... no ethiopian kids

    color me shocked

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  36. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What is the original link to David Brook’s column with the above text? No data from Google.

    David Brook’s just been writing:

    Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O.

    Read More
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  37. JimB says:

    It would be nice if Gennady Vladimirovich Korotkevich would tell Google where they can stick their stupid job offer and go work for Wikileaks.

    Read More
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  38. Tolemarch says:
    Read More
    • Replies: @szopen
    Great data, thanks. And one again: 2011-2017, results by country: winners Russia 4, Belarus 2, Japan One. Second place: Poland 3, Ukraine 1, CHina, Korea, Vietnam.

    In total:
    "Northern" Slavs (western+eastern 1st,2nd, 3rd place) 6,4, 3
    East Asians (1st, 2nd, 3rd place): 1, 3, 4
    Other (Vietnamese) : 1

    That's a second programming competition completely dominated by northern Slavs and East Asians.
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  39. @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    “And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) – musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music).”

    Lies.

    Last time I saw the Los Angeles Philharmonic, they had just one NAM: a very light-skinned Black woman, a violist — I rode the elevator down with her (and a few other musicians) as we were leaving the concert hall.

    Last time I saw the Seattle Symphony, they had one NAM: their timpanist, a Black man.

    The Oregon Symphony (based in Portland) has one very light-skinned Black woman, a cellist, and no other NAMs.

    The San Bernardino Symphony, which I saw many years ago, had one NAM: a Black male violinist.

    Orchestras and classical musicians are almost entirely Whites and Asians, as are their audiences. Classical music is complex, and thus appeals to people with high IQs.

    Now I don’t trust anything else you’ve written and won’t bother reading it. Congrats.

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  40. El Dato says:
    @academic gossip
    Today on Twitter, "Women In Tech Brag Day" unintentionally demonstrates through pictures and user profiles the high proportion of transsexual, lesbian and unfeminine women in computer programming.

    http://twitter.com/hashtag/WITBragDay?src=hash

    Please, please tell me this is some kind of joke

    “I took my first ever programming course in 2011 at age 46 . I am now a tenure track professor of Computer Information Systems.”

    What the ACTUAL FCUCK! What is even going on out there? It’s a fricking asylum of incompetence!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johan Schmidt
    "Computer Information Systems" sounds like a potential "gimme" field. At least half of it is probably pseudo-social-science "Social Implications of Technology" bullshitting.
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  41. Alden says:
    @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    If Google tried that it would be shot down by state, federal and probable even county fair employment and equal opportunity agencies because of disparate impact.

    Disparate impact has been around since Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Weber in the 1970s. Numerous judges and government civil rights agencies have ruled that the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to Whites.

    Google and the rest of the Santa Clara tech companies prefer to hire Indians and Asians instead of Whites anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    No disparate impact just shifts the burden of proof onto the employer. This is an unfair but not impossible burden. A color blind job related test goes a long way to overcoming the burden. Sure it would help if we could clear the leftist statutes and precedents out of our legal system and make the law colorblind again. Innocence until proven guilty is pretty basic to our system and leftists love to load the legal dice so that their expropriations have a legal veneer. We see this now in Venezuela. Even in the Soviet Union the horrors of the gulag were all conducted within the framework of legal procedure.
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  42. @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races

    The only NAM concert pianist I’m aware of is the mulatto Andre Watts, who’s quite good. Jews have always been heavily overrepresented among concert pianists and, increasingly, East Asians are now.
    That doesn’t prove anything but it would be a strange coincidence if there wasn’t a large G component there. We might expect ahead of time that mastery of an instrument where 12+ notes can be played simultaneously may require more cognitive ability than, say, a saxophone. Is that idea bolstered by looking at violinists? I think so.

    Also, regarding hiring by fire, unless the coding tasks are more or less exactly what the applicants will be doing on the job, an unlikely scenario for all but a small fraction of job prospects, such a practice would seem to be a straightforward violation of Griggs vs. Duke Power.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Griggs (one or two more Trump S. Ct. Justices and maybe we can get rid of this judge invented statute anyway) says that the test has to be job related, not that it has to be EXACTLY what the employees will be doing on their job.

    We need to get rid of all of "disparate impact" law - if someone can prove actual intent to discriminate then they win but no more of this you are presumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent BS - that has no place in our legal system.
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  43. Lurker says:
    @Kylie
    Maybe Google should offer a Making Jam Contest for the distaff side.

    Excellent!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie
    Thanks, Lurker, much appreciated.

    Let me say that although--and because--I'm a bright woman, l'm very aware that in this group of very bright men, I'm a minnow among whales. I learn a lot from many of you and I'm grateful for that.

    I don't get the whole butthurt competitive thing that women feel. I also don't get patronized by men. Maybe those two things are related.
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  44. Kylie says:
    @Lurker
    Excellent!

    Thanks, Lurker, much appreciated.

    Let me say that although–and because–I’m a bright woman, l’m very aware that in this group of very bright men, I’m a minnow among whales. I learn a lot from many of you and I’m grateful for that.

    I don’t get the whole butthurt competitive thing that women feel. I also don’t get patronized by men. Maybe those two things are related.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Maybe the fact that you are bright and that you don't feel butthurt are related. We see the same thing with NAM's - butthurt feelings come from the cognitive dissonance of not being able to keep up. Your mind can't accept the fact that these people really are sharper than you are so you go searching for alternate explanations - they are an old boys club, they are racists, etc. Anything but admitting to yourself that you are 2nd rate.

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually - she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that - she didn't resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.
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  45. This is one of the things I find baffling about contemporary “Western” culture, it strikes me as self-evident that if your best perform their assigned tasks, society as whole benefits…

    Why ruin that symmetry with a quota system?

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  46. Now now, if our civilization had been matriarchal instead of patriarchal…

    Programming — dammit, logic itself in fact — would be different, and all the finalists would be women!

    Don’t you read anything?

    The planets themselves would dance in pretty epicycles!

    Geez, can’t you white males get your thoughts out of your own circumcised dick heads for one minute?

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  47. JW says:

    For women “…not a useful and employable skill set at google.” I can think of at least one of those skills. It’s amazing how people don’t think about the fact that humans are just mammals.

    Read More
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  48. What does Google know about “diversity” performance, and choose to hide?

    The Google insider (alias “Chuck”), who worked at the company for several years, was part of a team tasked with determining which Google employees were most likely to succeed at the company based on their interview feedback.

    According to Chuck, the predictive model they created determined that employees who received mixed feedback at the interview stage performed far better than those who received only good feedback.

    Those who were most likely to receive only good feedback (“inflated interview scores,” in the words of Chuck) tended to be Ivy League graduates or underrepresented minorities. Those who were most likely to receive mixed feedback (and, according to the model, go on to achieve the most success at Google) were more likely to be white and Asian men who did not go to Ivy League schools.

    The insider’s team had been tasked with the project by Google’s HR department, but according to him, they promptly shut it down once they realized its results would not serve their goals.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/11/googler-internal-project-white-asians-likely-succeed/

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  49. JW says:
    @academic gossip
    Today on Twitter, "Women In Tech Brag Day" unintentionally demonstrates through pictures and user profiles the high proportion of transsexual, lesbian and unfeminine women in computer programming.

    http://twitter.com/hashtag/WITBragDay?src=hash

    I wonder if these Women in Tech causes push out normal feminine women. One of my old teammates was a 10/10 smart hottie with kids and it’s very hard to think she’d fit in with the Women in Tech crowd.

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  50. Jack D says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races
     
    The only NAM concert pianist I'm aware of is the mulatto Andre Watts, who's quite good. Jews have always been heavily overrepresented among concert pianists and, increasingly, East Asians are now.
    That doesn't prove anything but it would be a strange coincidence if there wasn't a large G component there. We might expect ahead of time that mastery of an instrument where 12+ notes can be played simultaneously may require more cognitive ability than, say, a saxophone. Is that idea bolstered by looking at violinists? I think so.

    Also, regarding hiring by fire, unless the coding tasks are more or less exactly what the applicants will be doing on the job, an unlikely scenario for all but a small fraction of job prospects, such a practice would seem to be a straightforward violation of Griggs vs. Duke Power.

    Griggs (one or two more Trump S. Ct. Justices and maybe we can get rid of this judge invented statute anyway) says that the test has to be job related, not that it has to be EXACTLY what the employees will be doing on their job.

    We need to get rid of all of “disparate impact” law – if someone can prove actual intent to discriminate then they win but no more of this you are presumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent BS – that has no place in our legal system.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    I think he's more right than you are, as current trends stand. That Yonatan Zunger guy previewed the new liberal legal argument WRT programming, i.e. it's actually all about "empathy."
    , @Negrolphin Pool
    I'm not a lawyer, but earlier you used the wording that "the expert tester would ensure the skills correlate with the job". Isn't that exactly what Griggs was about? The IQ tests - or de facto IQ tests - obviously do correlate with job performance, strongly. That's why the company was using them. That is precisely what was found to be illegal.

    Yeah, disparate impact is an abomination and generates so many logical contradictions that it's amazing competent jurists could have let it slide without anticipating all its nutty consequences.

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  51. @Wilbur Hassenfus
    You can't protect yourself against disparate impact that way because that kind of rigorously fair hiring is exactly what DI was invented in response to. DI doctrine holds that the only measure of discrimination is the result. If 300 lb black ladies -- or anybody other than straight white men -- are underrepresented, you're guilty.

    No, disparate impact theory shifts the presumption of guilt to the employer. But employers can overcome that burden. A lot of them go to the trouble and expense of doing so.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    No, disparate impact theory shifts the presumption of guilt to the employer. But employers can overcome that burden.
     
    That doesn't address the contention that "rigorously fair hiring is exactly what DI was invented in response to".
    , @Wilbur Hassenfus
    Thanks, I didn't know that. Still pretty bad though.
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  52. Jack D says:
    @Alden
    If Google tried that it would be shot down by state, federal and probable even county fair employment and equal opportunity agencies because of disparate impact.

    Disparate impact has been around since Griggs vs Duke Power and Kaiser vs Weber in the 1970s. Numerous judges and government civil rights agencies have ruled that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to Whites.

    Google and the rest of the Santa Clara tech companies prefer to hire Indians and Asians instead of Whites anyway.

    No disparate impact just shifts the burden of proof onto the employer. This is an unfair but not impossible burden. A color blind job related test goes a long way to overcoming the burden. Sure it would help if we could clear the leftist statutes and precedents out of our legal system and make the law colorblind again. Innocence until proven guilty is pretty basic to our system and leftists love to load the legal dice so that their expropriations have a legal veneer. We see this now in Venezuela. Even in the Soviet Union the horrors of the gulag were all conducted within the framework of legal procedure.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
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  53. @StillCARealist
    My son did tons of chess tournaments all over Northern CA and 6 programming competitions at HP and Stanford. Both types of events are overwhelmingly male (chess more so than programming) and the winners are always males. The guy who won the HP codewars is a friend of ours and the geekiest guy you can imagine. The winners in chess are usually Indian or Russian.

    Ah, my son now informs me that he participated in Code Jam twice. I guess it’s all on line. He made it to the 2nd round once (out of 3 rounds, then the final) but didn’t have time to participate further.

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  54. BenKenobi says:
    @carol
    OT.

    I think alt right may have jumped the shark today.

    In Alt-Right America, shark jumps you!

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  55. bomag says:
    @carol
    OT.

    I think alt right may have jumped the shark today.

    I think alt right may have jumped the shark today

    Regarding what? The Virginia riots?

    Read More
    • Replies: @carol
    Terrible optics, as they say. Nazis stay home!

    Demonstrations just don't work for us.
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  56. szopen says:
    @Tolemarch
    https://tolemarch.neocities.org/gender-differences-facebook-hacker-cup.html

    Great data, thanks. And one again: 2011-2017, results by country: winners Russia 4, Belarus 2, Japan One. Second place: Poland 3, Ukraine 1, CHina, Korea, Vietnam.

    In total:
    “Northern” Slavs (western+eastern 1st,2nd, 3rd place) 6,4, 3
    East Asians (1st, 2nd, 3rd place): 1, 3, 4
    Other (Vietnamese) : 1

    That’s a second programming competition completely dominated by northern Slavs and East Asians.

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    • Replies: @szopen
    A bit of searching, and

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest#Highest_Rank_Of_Countries_In_Last_Final_.282017.29

    In first ten places in last competition, 5 went to "northern Slavs" (4 Russians, 1 Pole) and 5 to East ASians (Chinese and South Koreans). The previous events were dominated by the same two groups.

    Same with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Informatics#All_Time_Medal_Table

    Here USA got the third place in the number of Gold places. Of course, judging from the names of US competitors, some of them actually should be listed in "East Asian" category too...
    Overall the ranking: China, Russia, USA, Poland. Look at the Slovakia: this is a tiny country with 5 million people, and yet tey got 24 gold medals...

    The only exception seems to be IEEEXtreme.
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  57. @El Dato
    Please, please tell me this is some kind of joke

    "I took my first ever programming course in 2011 at age 46 . I am now a tenure track professor of Computer Information Systems."
     
    What the ACTUAL FCUCK! What is even going on out there? It's a fricking asylum of incompetence!

    “Computer Information Systems” sounds like a potential “gimme” field. At least half of it is probably pseudo-social-science “Social Implications of Technology” bullshitting.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    CIS is to CS what EET is to EE: a technician level program. CIS majors become telecom NOC or provisioning techs or Windows networking admins, not developers per se. Occasionally one gets a code writing job but in a back water field like automated test system programming. Not for any serious company.
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  58. Jack D says:
    @Kylie
    Thanks, Lurker, much appreciated.

    Let me say that although--and because--I'm a bright woman, l'm very aware that in this group of very bright men, I'm a minnow among whales. I learn a lot from many of you and I'm grateful for that.

    I don't get the whole butthurt competitive thing that women feel. I also don't get patronized by men. Maybe those two things are related.

    Maybe the fact that you are bright and that you don’t feel butthurt are related. We see the same thing with NAM’s – butthurt feelings come from the cognitive dissonance of not being able to keep up. Your mind can’t accept the fact that these people really are sharper than you are so you go searching for alternate explanations – they are an old boys club, they are racists, etc. Anything but admitting to yourself that you are 2nd rate.

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.

    Those MLB players who understand bell curves will realize what a catch she is as far as potential to sire future MLB players with her. And if there is competition over her, she will be in prime position.
    , @Lot
    When you get to the MIT UG admissions IQ level, the larger male SD really starts to kick in and you need substantial AA for women if you don't want a very lopsided class.

    It is still smaller than the black preference at every level of course.
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  59. szopen says:
    @szopen
    Great data, thanks. And one again: 2011-2017, results by country: winners Russia 4, Belarus 2, Japan One. Second place: Poland 3, Ukraine 1, CHina, Korea, Vietnam.

    In total:
    "Northern" Slavs (western+eastern 1st,2nd, 3rd place) 6,4, 3
    East Asians (1st, 2nd, 3rd place): 1, 3, 4
    Other (Vietnamese) : 1

    That's a second programming competition completely dominated by northern Slavs and East Asians.

    A bit of searching, and

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest#Highest_Rank_Of_Countries_In_Last_Final_.282017.29

    In first ten places in last competition, 5 went to “northern Slavs” (4 Russians, 1 Pole) and 5 to East ASians (Chinese and South Koreans). The previous events were dominated by the same two groups.

    Same with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Informatics#All_Time_Medal_Table

    Here USA got the third place in the number of Gold places. Of course, judging from the names of US competitors, some of them actually should be listed in “East Asian” category too…
    Overall the ranking: China, Russia, USA, Poland. Look at the Slovakia: this is a tiny country with 5 million people, and yet tey got 24 gold medals…

    The only exception seems to be IEEEXtreme.

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  60. My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all

    A somewhat related anecdote — my wife (now a retired research biochemist) was the first person to observe to me, decades ago, that male researchers are simply better at visualizing molecules in 3-D. To her, it was just a fact of nature, nothing to take personally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    On average, male tour pro golfers can visualize the path of a rolling ball on the complex topography of a green better than can female tour pro golfers. That is one reason top male golfers are much better on average at the delicate parts of golf around the greens than are top female golfers, contrary to expectations in the 1970s.
    , @res
    Mental rotation is one of the few mental areas where there are clear and consistent differences in the means between sexes. See references in https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what-does-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/

    As others have noted above, the people who simply can't compete are the ones who seem to get the most upset about things like this.
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  61. snorlax says:
    @Jack D
    Griggs (one or two more Trump S. Ct. Justices and maybe we can get rid of this judge invented statute anyway) says that the test has to be job related, not that it has to be EXACTLY what the employees will be doing on their job.

    We need to get rid of all of "disparate impact" law - if someone can prove actual intent to discriminate then they win but no more of this you are presumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent BS - that has no place in our legal system.

    I think he’s more right than you are, as current trends stand. That Yonatan Zunger guy previewed the new liberal legal argument WRT programming, i.e. it’s actually all about “empathy.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My wife's friend A is a programming professional. Her specialty is user interface testing of new designs, and her specialty is a lack of empathy for her colleagues and their creations. She's been legally blind and deaf since childhood, although she can see straight ahead and can hear mid-range conversational tones. To make it through life without, say, falling down a staircase, she has asked a million questions and insisted that people explain how things work to her until she understands.

    So, her skill, besides being logical, is a sort of lack of empathy for her fellow programmers. She doesn't empathetically grasp what the proposed interface is supposed to do, she just asks seemingly dumb questions about everything until the developers realize that real end users are going to make a total hash of what they've designed for them.
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  62. @Clark Westwood

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all
     
    A somewhat related anecdote -- my wife (now a retired research biochemist) was the first person to observe to me, decades ago, that male researchers are simply better at visualizing molecules in 3-D. To her, it was just a fact of nature, nothing to take personally.

    On average, male tour pro golfers can visualize the path of a rolling ball on the complex topography of a green better than can female tour pro golfers. That is one reason top male golfers are much better on average at the delicate parts of golf around the greens than are top female golfers, contrary to expectations in the 1970s.

    Read More
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  63. @Rod1963
    All the Code Jam questions from previous years are at:

    https://code.google.com/codejam/past-contests

    They should be doable for some of the readers here.

    I looked at the 2016 final question. It's a dozy and you only get 4 hr's to solve it. But I can see why Google used it. Any guy who can solve is the sort they would want.

    Though I can't think why any smart ethical man would even have anything to with Google. Then there is the cost of living in the area which negates the pay in many instances(which isn't all that impressive considering the price of housing). Look a $160k isn't bad but not good either.

    I can't see why a white guy would work for a company that is going to replace him with a Bombay Babu sooner or later.

    Then there's the housing situation which sucks in the extreme.

    I know techs at Lockheed who pull down that and all they have are 2 year degree. Even the mechanics can pull six figures with OT and housing is much more affordable.



    .

    Of course, those contests use such pathetic languages as C++, Java and Python.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Real Men use Assembler. And toggle it in on the front panel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360_Model_50
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  64. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Glob PC got everything upside down.

    There should be physical barriers but no mental barriers.

    We should be free to think anything about anyone, anything, any place, or any people. But we have no right to just invade, barge in, and colonize other parts.

    Suppose there is a certain person with is private property and space. I should no right to barge into his place as an invited guest, let alone unapproved resident. BUT, my mind should be free to think anything about him. Is he good person? Bad person? What is he about? What is his place in and influence on society?

    Peoples need barriers, but ideas/opinions must be freely to travel and explore.

    But, look at EU. Look at Merkel monster. They tear down physical barriers so that non-whites can come invading as crashers. But EU-crats and Merkel Monster erect mental barriers so that people can’t share views and ideas about why having physical barriers is a good idea.

    A good society have physical barriers and mental freedom. Indeed, mind feels most free when it is physically secure.
    But GLOB’s vision is a world without physical barriers but with mental walls.

    Be invaded but don’t think about it.

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  65. @Jack D
    Griggs (one or two more Trump S. Ct. Justices and maybe we can get rid of this judge invented statute anyway) says that the test has to be job related, not that it has to be EXACTLY what the employees will be doing on their job.

    We need to get rid of all of "disparate impact" law - if someone can prove actual intent to discriminate then they win but no more of this you are presumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent BS - that has no place in our legal system.

    I’m not a lawyer, but earlier you used the wording that “the expert tester would ensure the skills correlate with the job”. Isn’t that exactly what Griggs was about? The IQ tests – or de facto IQ tests – obviously do correlate with job performance, strongly. That’s why the company was using them. That is precisely what was found to be illegal.

    Yeah, disparate impact is an abomination and generates so many logical contradictions that it’s amazing competent jurists could have let it slide without anticipating all its nutty consequences.

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  66. @snorlax
    I think he's more right than you are, as current trends stand. That Yonatan Zunger guy previewed the new liberal legal argument WRT programming, i.e. it's actually all about "empathy."

    My wife’s friend A is a programming professional. Her specialty is user interface testing of new designs, and her specialty is a lack of empathy for her colleagues and their creations. She’s been legally blind and deaf since childhood, although she can see straight ahead and can hear mid-range conversational tones. To make it through life without, say, falling down a staircase, she has asked a million questions and insisted that people explain how things work to her until she understands.

    So, her skill, besides being logical, is a sort of lack of empathy for her fellow programmers. She doesn’t empathetically grasp what the proposed interface is supposed to do, she just asks seemingly dumb questions about everything until the developers realize that real end users are going to make a total hash of what they’ve designed for them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "she just asks seemingly dumb questions about everything until the developers realize that real end users are going to make a total hash of what they’ve designed for them."

    Sounds interesting, but vague. Please give an example of a seemingly dumb question and how it helps in understanding and clarification.
    , @res
    That's an interesting skillset and application. I can see how it would be hard to find someone who simultaneously
    - Does not understand (or learn to over time) where the engineers are coming from.
    - Is reasonable enough at working with engineers that neither party becomes excessively annoyed.
    - Is smart and articulate enough to formulate her criticism and get her points across to the engineers.
    Well done by her to find a niche that suits her.

    One hard aspect of this is knowing the target audience. Writing programs for other engineers is different from working on the Facebook GUI.
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  67. AndrewR says:

    Some insane, major things are happening in C-ville and Sailer is shitposting about golf and endurance sports. Unbelievable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Golf post was genius.
    , @Lot
    The great thing about Unz Review is that if you don't like it, you can get a full refund.
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  68. There’s a photo here of the 2011 Code Jam finalists:

    http://googletechprograms.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/2011-code-jam-champion-crowned-in-tokyo.html

    There appears to be a woman in the group.

    She’s a dead ringer for my formidable high school maths teacher.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
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  69. Anonym says:
    @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that’s who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Golden tickets hidden in chocolate bars would be more likely to pass disparate impact tests, and be more entertaining to boot. Those who stray from Brin’s tour would have chilling, life altering things happen to them (e.g. unauthorised driverless car rides, writing memos based on truth that go viral might turn you into a giant virus for example), then be taken away by small brown Goompah Loompahs. The one applicant who remains controls the direction of the company.

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  70. Anonym says:
    @szopen
    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two? That's 9 for "northern" Slavs, 3 places for East Asians, one for Sweden, one for Argentine. Since 1st and 2nd places are not that far in terms of ability, we can look at those too: 3 for "northern" Slavs, 4 for East Asians. For the 3rd place: 8 for "northern" Slavs, 2 for "East Asians".

    You may also want to take a look at Microsoft Imagine Cup. Because there are teams there, there were women in winning teams (some were my students, actually - not in a sense I was their tutor in the competition, but that I was teaching them one or two courses).

    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two? That’s 9 for “northern” Slavs, 3 places for East Asians, one for Sweden, one for Argentine. Since 1st and 2nd places are not that far in terms of ability, we can look at those too: 3 for “northern” Slavs, 4 for East Asians. For the 3rd place: 8 for “northern” Slavs, 2 for “East Asians”.

    Belarus had the most? I guess you had to be a genius to survive ww2′s battleground and come out alive.

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  71. carol says:
    @bomag

    I think alt right may have jumped the shark today
     
    Regarding what? The Virginia riots?

    Terrible optics, as they say. Nazis stay home!

    Demonstrations just don’t work for us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Lmao its always doom o clock with some of you.

    "B-b-but I'm posting on a blog! I'm helping!"

    Boomer cuckservatism can't die out fast enough.
    , @bored identity
    Time to change your optician, dear Carol:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/262157/every-republican-presidential-candidate-hitler-daniel-greenfield
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  72. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Or maybe an “Eating Jam Contest” for the feminists.
    Obligatory Steely Dan reference?

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  73. Anonym says:
    @Jack D
    Maybe the fact that you are bright and that you don't feel butthurt are related. We see the same thing with NAM's - butthurt feelings come from the cognitive dissonance of not being able to keep up. Your mind can't accept the fact that these people really are sharper than you are so you go searching for alternate explanations - they are an old boys club, they are racists, etc. Anything but admitting to yourself that you are 2nd rate.

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually - she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that - she didn't resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.

    Those MLB players who understand bell curves will realize what a catch she is as far as potential to sire future MLB players with her. And if there is competition over her, she will be in prime position.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    There was one guy who as far as I am concerned, I would pay for the wedding tomorrow.
    But naturally my daughter likes him "as a friend" because he doesn't have enough alpha charm. Maybe he'll make some S.V. money and his alpha charm will increase - one can only hope.
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  74. sondjata says: • Website

    “Probability alone would say that if only 5-10% of entrants were woman, and they were as likely to to have the same skill sets and ability as men, that we should have seen a female finalist by now.”

    This person clearly doesn’t gamble. Simply because something has the probability of happening 5% of the time doesn’t mean that they will happen 5% of the time. Shit is called variance and depending on the SD variance can swing quite wide.

    All that aside, there would need to be 100 years of finalists (or 100 finalist events) required before we can even know if the 5% probability is in fact accurate. 14 is too small a sample.

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    • Agree: Negrolphin Pool
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    The email quoted claimed that none of the finalists in the 14 competitions was female, and that there were 20 finalists per year. That would mean that none of app 280 finalists across those years was female (though apparently in 2011 there were in fact 25 finalists).

    But a better man than I am found a picture of the 25 2011 finalists, and, right in the center of that photo, there's a young woman.

    I'm sure that her placement in the photo was entirely random, of course.

    , @Negrolphin Pool
    A 95% chance that a woman doesn't win 14 years in a row means there's a 48% chance she will have not won a single event. We would probably need considerably more than 100 years to know if the probability of women winning was equal to that of men, particularly if it turned out to be less than men.

    For example, even if we ran 100 trials of the contest and there were 0 women who won we would still only be at the 99% confidence level for the hypothesis that the probability of women winning is not equal to that of men, a rather weak statement when we instead want to presumably know what the actual probability of women winning is.

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  75. @jimmyriddle
    There's a photo here of the 2011 Code Jam finalists:

    http://googletechprograms.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/2011-code-jam-champion-crowned-in-tokyo.html

    There appears to be a woman in the group.

    She's a dead ringer for my formidable high school maths teacher.

    Thanks.

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  76. prediction: Google will discover some ‘bias’ in this code competition and magically women and NAMs will start to ‘win’ .

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  77. @sondjata
    "Probability alone would say that if only 5-10% of entrants were woman, and they were as likely to to have the same skill sets and ability as men, that we should have seen a female finalist by now."

    This person clearly doesn't gamble. Simply because something has the probability of happening 5% of the time doesn't mean that they will happen 5% of the time. Shit is called variance and depending on the SD variance can swing quite wide.

    All that aside, there would need to be 100 years of finalists (or 100 finalist events) required before we can even know if the 5% probability is in fact accurate. 14 is too small a sample.

    The email quoted claimed that none of the finalists in the 14 competitions was female, and that there were 20 finalists per year. That would mean that none of app 280 finalists across those years was female (though apparently in 2011 there were in fact 25 finalists).

    But a better man than I am found a picture of the 25 2011 finalists, and, right in the center of that photo, there’s a young woman.

    I’m sure that her placement in the photo was entirely random, of course.

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    • Replies: @dcite

    I’m sure that her placement in the photo was entirely random, of course
     
    It's like flower arranging, just etiquette and balance. The exception catches more attention than the rule. If she were off to the side, eyes would be drawn to her in a skewed way. The lone boy among a bunch of girls should also be front and center. If you have 6 kittens and one red puppy, you put the puppy in the center. That's just logic. Programming of a sort.

    My sister writes code. Obviously it takes a certain mindset. Her IQ tested high, but mine was higher, and yet I could never have learned what she just picked up on a job she found shortly after working at McDonalds for a year. That could happen in those days. In junior high, she shamelessly admitted to having no imagination and exploited my talents, by having me dictate her homework compositions for her, off the top of my head 10 minutes before she left for school. Naturally she always made more money.
    Code Jam indeed.
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  78. @AndrewR
    Some insane, major things are happening in C-ville and Sailer is shitposting about golf and endurance sports. Unbelievable.

    Golf post was genius.

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  79. @Steve Sailer
    My wife's friend A is a programming professional. Her specialty is user interface testing of new designs, and her specialty is a lack of empathy for her colleagues and their creations. She's been legally blind and deaf since childhood, although she can see straight ahead and can hear mid-range conversational tones. To make it through life without, say, falling down a staircase, she has asked a million questions and insisted that people explain how things work to her until she understands.

    So, her skill, besides being logical, is a sort of lack of empathy for her fellow programmers. She doesn't empathetically grasp what the proposed interface is supposed to do, she just asks seemingly dumb questions about everything until the developers realize that real end users are going to make a total hash of what they've designed for them.

    “she just asks seemingly dumb questions about everything until the developers realize that real end users are going to make a total hash of what they’ve designed for them.”

    Sounds interesting, but vague. Please give an example of a seemingly dumb question and how it helps in understanding and clarification.

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  80. Lot says:

    This guy is from a christian country poorer than Mexico. I would like to compromise with the cheap labor Koch/Zuck/Ryan/Cruz block, who are too powerful to really defeat, and rebalance US demographics by making it much easier for east euros to immigrate. Same for SA whites.

    East euro contract labor helped build a lot of the Tesla factory in Fremont in Nor Cap. They were treated like crap but took the job because bay area pay is 3-5x higher than Slovakia etc.

    Many people don’t realize that it is actually very hard for an upstanding east euro family to just settle in the USA. Much easier for a Haitian or Somali actually, who benefit from TPS.

    We know plenty would come since so many have gone to the UK, despite its high rents, weaker economy, and lower wages.

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  81. Lot says:
    @Jack D
    Maybe the fact that you are bright and that you don't feel butthurt are related. We see the same thing with NAM's - butthurt feelings come from the cognitive dissonance of not being able to keep up. Your mind can't accept the fact that these people really are sharper than you are so you go searching for alternate explanations - they are an old boys club, they are racists, etc. Anything but admitting to yourself that you are 2nd rate.

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually - she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that - she didn't resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.

    When you get to the MIT UG admissions IQ level, the larger male SD really starts to kick in and you need substantial AA for women if you don’t want a very lopsided class.

    It is still smaller than the black preference at every level of course.

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  82. Jack D says:
    @Anonym
    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all. But if she was really a Rookie league level player who had somehow ended up on a AAA team, she might have felt the need to rationalize as to why she was headed for the cut list.

    Those MLB players who understand bell curves will realize what a catch she is as far as potential to sire future MLB players with her. And if there is competition over her, she will be in prime position.

    There was one guy who as far as I am concerned, I would pay for the wedding tomorrow.
    But naturally my daughter likes him “as a friend” because he doesn’t have enough alpha charm. Maybe he’ll make some S.V. money and his alpha charm will increase – one can only hope.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Unfortunately as a guy, when the parents like you it's usually the kiss of death for your chances or at least it appeared that way in my youth. It is going to be challenging to not be too pushy as a parent. To gently suggest, give arguments but leave it up to their discretion... it's going to be tough.
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  83. res says:
    @Peripatetic commenter
    Also, some other news from Google HR:

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/11/googler-internal-project-white-asians-likely-succeed/

    Thanks for that. A sample:

    According to Chuck, the predictive model they created determined that employees who received mixed feedback at the interview stage performed far better than those who received only good feedback.

    Those who were most likely to receive only good feedback (“inflated interview scores,” in the words of Chuck) tended to be Ivy League graduates or underrepresented minorities. Those who were most likely to receive mixed feedback (and, according to the model, go on to achieve the most success at Google) were more likely to be white and Asian men who did not go to Ivy League schools.

    The insider’s team had been tasked with the project by Google’s HR department, but according to him, they promptly shut it down once they realized its results would not serve their goals.

    I hope Damore’s case makes it to discovery.

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  84. Lot says:
    @AndrewR
    Some insane, major things are happening in C-ville and Sailer is shitposting about golf and endurance sports. Unbelievable.

    The great thing about Unz Review is that if you don’t like it, you can get a full refund.

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  85. @carol
    Terrible optics, as they say. Nazis stay home!

    Demonstrations just don't work for us.

    Lmao its always doom o clock with some of you.

    “B-b-but I’m posting on a blog! I’m helping!”

    Boomer cuckservatism can’t die out fast enough.

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    • Agree: BenKenobi
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  86. res says:
    @Clark Westwood

    My daughter, who is not chopped liver in the brains dept., had no problem recognizing that some of her (male) friends at MIT were in a higher league intellectually – she can play a fine game of Triple-A ball but some of these guys were intellectual MLB material. And she was totally fine and matter of fact about that – she didn’t resent them at all
     
    A somewhat related anecdote -- my wife (now a retired research biochemist) was the first person to observe to me, decades ago, that male researchers are simply better at visualizing molecules in 3-D. To her, it was just a fact of nature, nothing to take personally.

    Mental rotation is one of the few mental areas where there are clear and consistent differences in the means between sexes. See references in https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what-does-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/

    As others have noted above, the people who simply can’t compete are the ones who seem to get the most upset about things like this.

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  87. res says:
    @Steve Sailer
    My wife's friend A is a programming professional. Her specialty is user interface testing of new designs, and her specialty is a lack of empathy for her colleagues and their creations. She's been legally blind and deaf since childhood, although she can see straight ahead and can hear mid-range conversational tones. To make it through life without, say, falling down a staircase, she has asked a million questions and insisted that people explain how things work to her until she understands.

    So, her skill, besides being logical, is a sort of lack of empathy for her fellow programmers. She doesn't empathetically grasp what the proposed interface is supposed to do, she just asks seemingly dumb questions about everything until the developers realize that real end users are going to make a total hash of what they've designed for them.

    That’s an interesting skillset and application. I can see how it would be hard to find someone who simultaneously
    - Does not understand (or learn to over time) where the engineers are coming from.
    - Is reasonable enough at working with engineers that neither party becomes excessively annoyed.
    - Is smart and articulate enough to formulate her criticism and get her points across to the engineers.
    Well done by her to find a niche that suits her.

    One hard aspect of this is knowing the target audience. Writing programs for other engineers is different from working on the Facebook GUI.

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  88. Anonym says:
    @Jack D
    There was one guy who as far as I am concerned, I would pay for the wedding tomorrow.
    But naturally my daughter likes him "as a friend" because he doesn't have enough alpha charm. Maybe he'll make some S.V. money and his alpha charm will increase - one can only hope.

    Unfortunately as a guy, when the parents like you it’s usually the kiss of death for your chances or at least it appeared that way in my youth. It is going to be challenging to not be too pushy as a parent. To gently suggest, give arguments but leave it up to their discretion… it’s going to be tough.

    Read More
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  89. @sondjata
    "Probability alone would say that if only 5-10% of entrants were woman, and they were as likely to to have the same skill sets and ability as men, that we should have seen a female finalist by now."

    This person clearly doesn't gamble. Simply because something has the probability of happening 5% of the time doesn't mean that they will happen 5% of the time. Shit is called variance and depending on the SD variance can swing quite wide.

    All that aside, there would need to be 100 years of finalists (or 100 finalist events) required before we can even know if the 5% probability is in fact accurate. 14 is too small a sample.

    A 95% chance that a woman doesn’t win 14 years in a row means there’s a 48% chance she will have not won a single event. We would probably need considerably more than 100 years to know if the probability of women winning was equal to that of men, particularly if it turned out to be less than men.

    For example, even if we ran 100 trials of the contest and there were 0 women who won we would still only be at the 99% confidence level for the hypothesis that the probability of women winning is not equal to that of men, a rather weak statement when we instead want to presumably know what the actual probability of women winning is.

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  90. simpleton says:

    This trend of very low female representation can be seen in elite math/science examinations in most countries. Single digit percentages, sometimes complete absence in top 100. Such a lopsided representation will not exist for elite exams in other areas, such as Biology, Medicine, or Law. So this is math / physics / computer science related.

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  91. Olorin says:
    @candid_observer
    James Damore, in one of his interviews, says that he himself was recruited by Google on the basis of his performance on a similar kind of competition, a puzzle solving contest sponsored by Google. He said he achieved semi-finalist status. (FWIW, he also said that in his most recent performance review, he got the top rating, which only a few percent of Googler's attain.)

    I looked online for a list of the finalists or semi-finalists of that puzzle contest, and couldn't find any. Likewise, I couldn't find a list of the finalists in the Code Jam competition, and couldn't find any.

    One wonders why these lists don't pop up immediately in, say, a Google search.

    Imagine a world in which half of the people on those lists were women.

    Do you think it would be hard to find those lists online?

    When a company like Google spends that much money devising a recruitment test for the high end skills it specifically needs–in order to sift through humanity for a specifically useful subset of carbon units most likely to arrive ready to do the job–the last thing it would ever do is share it publicly for other companies to poach from.

    This of course raises yet another possibility: how to get rid of workers difficult to jettison by other means.

    PR has many uses.

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  92. Olorin says:
    @academic gossip
    Today on Twitter, "Women In Tech Brag Day" unintentionally demonstrates through pictures and user profiles the high proportion of transsexual, lesbian and unfeminine women in computer programming.

    http://twitter.com/hashtag/WITBragDay?src=hash

    Women in Tech brag about their self-constructed narratives/bios, their institutional/organizational positions, and their pregnancies.

    Men in Tech brag “Hey, I built this!”

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  93. Goatweed says:

    Anyone compare how the Slavs and the East Asians teach the subject with how other countries are teaching it?

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    Anyone compare how the Slavs and the East Asians teach the subject with how other countries are teaching it?
     
    "The Russian School of Mathematics is an after-school math program for K-12 students. Explore our rigorous math school based on effective Russian methods"


    http://www.russianschool.com/
    , @szopen
    I am not sure whether it has anything to do with method of teaching. I'd saythat's rather a question of where intelligent people decide to pursue their careers. Simply, in IT a literal "no name" with no family connections can get a lots and lots of money, so instead to go for medicine or law, or business, they can play it safe and go for being a programmer.
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  94. I was thinking about that old tv show with Tom Hanks, Bosom Buddies. Those guys pretended to be girls just for a cheap apartment. How about a 6 figure job at Google? In our transgender age, why wouldn’t some smart, almost but not quite good enough guys just pretend to be a woman? Hell, they can now get married and be transgender and lesbian! One of the best weapons is to game the system.

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  95. @szopen
    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two? That's 9 for "northern" Slavs, 3 places for East Asians, one for Sweden, one for Argentine. Since 1st and 2nd places are not that far in terms of ability, we can look at those too: 3 for "northern" Slavs, 4 for East Asians. For the 3rd place: 8 for "northern" Slavs, 2 for "East Asians".

    You may also want to take a look at Microsoft Imagine Cup. Because there are teams there, there were women in winning teams (some were my students, actually - not in a sense I was their tutor in the competition, but that I was teaching them one or two courses).

    Four of Belarus’ five wins are from just this one guy.

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  96. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two?

    All of the five Belarus wins are by the same guy, Gena Korotkevich. Who happened to be educated in Russia and resides in Russia.

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  97. it’s probably an exaggeration to say that all the Google finalists ever have been male.

    Looking at that picture… Indeed.

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  98. @szopen
    Have you noticed that out of victors from 2003 to 2015 (from wikipedia), Belarus scored 5 wins, Russia and Poland scored two? That's 9 for "northern" Slavs, 3 places for East Asians, one for Sweden, one for Argentine. Since 1st and 2nd places are not that far in terms of ability, we can look at those too: 3 for "northern" Slavs, 4 for East Asians. For the 3rd place: 8 for "northern" Slavs, 2 for "East Asians".

    You may also want to take a look at Microsoft Imagine Cup. Because there are teams there, there were women in winning teams (some were my students, actually - not in a sense I was their tutor in the competition, but that I was teaching them one or two courses).

    Yes. That’s interesting.

    The obvious weakness of saying that you’re going to choose the best programmers via a competition is that women might not be attracted to competing.

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  99. Humbles says:

    That’s a shit ton of Asians, though.

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  100. dcite says:
    @candid_observer
    The email quoted claimed that none of the finalists in the 14 competitions was female, and that there were 20 finalists per year. That would mean that none of app 280 finalists across those years was female (though apparently in 2011 there were in fact 25 finalists).

    But a better man than I am found a picture of the 25 2011 finalists, and, right in the center of that photo, there's a young woman.

    I'm sure that her placement in the photo was entirely random, of course.

    I’m sure that her placement in the photo was entirely random, of course

    It’s like flower arranging, just etiquette and balance. The exception catches more attention than the rule. If she were off to the side, eyes would be drawn to her in a skewed way. The lone boy among a bunch of girls should also be front and center. If you have 6 kittens and one red puppy, you put the puppy in the center. That’s just logic. Programming of a sort.

    My sister writes code. Obviously it takes a certain mindset. Her IQ tested high, but mine was higher, and yet I could never have learned what she just picked up on a job she found shortly after working at McDonalds for a year. That could happen in those days. In junior high, she shamelessly admitted to having no imagination and exploited my talents, by having me dictate her homework compositions for her, off the top of my head 10 minutes before she left for school. Naturally she always made more money.
    Code Jam indeed.

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  101. Eagle Eye says:
    @Goatweed
    Anyone compare how the Slavs and the East Asians teach the subject with how other countries are teaching it?

    Anyone compare how the Slavs and the East Asians teach the subject with how other countries are teaching it?

    “The Russian School of Mathematics is an after-school math program for K-12 students. Explore our rigorous math school based on effective Russian methods”

    http://www.russianschool.com/

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  102. Kevin C. says:
    @Ben Frank
    Hatefacts. Look at the comments at WaPo, there are so many about fighting the white males.

    Look at the comments at WaPo, there are so many about fighting the white males.

    And they’ve got a lot more power and institutions backing them up.

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  103. @(((Owen)))
    1. There are 25 finalists each year, not 20.

    2. There was a female finalist in 2005 and 2006, though Google did take 100 finalists those years.

    3. As for NAMs, Sergio Sancho of Argentina not only made the finals but won first prize outright in 2004.

    3. As for NAMs, Sergio Sancho of Argentina not only made the finals but won first prize outright in 2004.

    He’s not a NAM.

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  104. @Boudicca
    To reiterate:

    A full 20 years ago, the very best biological chess player was defeated by a machine. (“1997, Deep Blue was heavily upgraded and played Kasparov, becoming the first machine to defeat a reigning world champion. Kasparov accused IBM of cheating and demanded a rematch. IBM refused and retired Deep Blue.”) Ergo, the core narrative is not XX versus XY but human versus machine. Machines are already programming other machines. The distance between machine language and natural language is shrinking. Machines can already be controlled by natural language (e.g. Siri). Natural language can control humans (e.g. propaganda). Ergo, command of natural language is the most important skill. Hence, the relentless attack on language by SJW. Sadly, many Aspie-types aren’t good with natural language. Sadly, this is why 50 Shades of Grey has more societal influence than 99.9% of XYs.

    A full 20 years ago, the very best biological chess player was defeated by a machine. (“1997, Deep Blue was heavily upgraded and played Kasparov, becoming the first machine to defeat a reigning world champion. Kasparov accused IBM of cheating and demanded a rematch.

    Cheating? What does that even mean in that context?

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  105. @anonymous
    The "Code Jam" should follow this example from Minneapolis:

    The lineup of speakers for the Loft Literary Center’s conference on writing for children and young adults was stellar. William Alexander, winner of a National Book Award. Kelly Barnhill, winner of the Newbery Medal. Phyllis Root, author of more than 40 books for children. And 19 others.

    Other than Alexander, who is Cuban-American, every writer who agreed to speak was white. And so, just days after announcing it, the Loft in Minneapolis canceled the Oct. 20-21 conference.

    “We have set a goal for ourselves to be inclusive and to work toward equity, and we didn’t think the conference would live up to that mission,” Britt Udesen, executive director of the Loft, said Wednesday. “We made a mistake.”

    Complaints from the public — Udesen declined to say how many, or who — helped prompt the decision to cancel the Children’s and Young Adult Literature (CYA) Conference. Another factor was dwindling interest in the event, which has been held at least every other year since 2003. Only 13 people had registered for this year’s conference.
     
    The jam should be canceled until it is woke.

    The lineup of speakers for the Loft Literary Center’s conference on writing for children and young adults was stellar. William Alexander, winner of a National Book Award. Kelly Barnhill, winner of the Newbery Medal. Phyllis Root, author of more than 40 books for children. And 19 others.

    Other than Alexander, who is Cuban-American, every writer who agreed to speak was white.

    By what definition? If Alexander’s ancestors lost their whiteness by setting foot on the island of Cuba, why didn’t the rest of the authors lose their whiteness by virtue of their ancestors setting foot on North America?

    God, these people are fantastically stupid.

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  106. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Johan Schmidt
    "Computer Information Systems" sounds like a potential "gimme" field. At least half of it is probably pseudo-social-science "Social Implications of Technology" bullshitting.

    CIS is to CS what EET is to EE: a technician level program. CIS majors become telecom NOC or provisioning techs or Windows networking admins, not developers per se. Occasionally one gets a code writing job but in a back water field like automated test system programming. Not for any serious company.

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  107. @Steve Sailer
    No, disparate impact theory shifts the presumption of guilt to the employer. But employers can overcome that burden. A lot of them go to the trouble and expense of doing so.

    No, disparate impact theory shifts the presumption of guilt to the employer. But employers can overcome that burden.

    That doesn’t address the contention that “rigorously fair hiring is exactly what DI was invented in response to”.

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  108. @Rod1963
    All the Code Jam questions from previous years are at:

    https://code.google.com/codejam/past-contests

    They should be doable for some of the readers here.

    I looked at the 2016 final question. It's a dozy and you only get 4 hr's to solve it. But I can see why Google used it. Any guy who can solve is the sort they would want.

    Though I can't think why any smart ethical man would even have anything to with Google. Then there is the cost of living in the area which negates the pay in many instances(which isn't all that impressive considering the price of housing). Look a $160k isn't bad but not good either.

    I can't see why a white guy would work for a company that is going to replace him with a Bombay Babu sooner or later.

    Then there's the housing situation which sucks in the extreme.

    I know techs at Lockheed who pull down that and all they have are 2 year degree. Even the mechanics can pull six figures with OT and housing is much more affordable.



    .

    All the Code Jam questions from previous years are at:

    https://code.google.com/codejam/past-contests

    Gosh, are we sure that doesn’t violate Griggs?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Silicon Valley never seemed to pay much attention to anti-discrimination laws until about 2014. Those were only meant for the uncool and backward, not the progressive.
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  109. @ben tillman

    All the Code Jam questions from previous years are at:

    https://code.google.com/codejam/past-contests
     

    Gosh, are we sure that doesn't violate Griggs?

    Silicon Valley never seemed to pay much attention to anti-discrimination laws until about 2014. Those were only meant for the uncool and backward, not the progressive.

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  110. @Jack D
    Many orchestras do their auditions "blind" - the musician sits behind a curtain and plays and the hiring committee listens without ever seeing him or her. You could be a Toscanini lookalike or a 300 lb. black woman (this summer I saw the local orchestra of Wilmington, Del. and indeed there was what looked like a 300 lb. black woman in there) or a cripple or whatever and it wouldn't make any difference because all they want is to hear how good a musician you are. And nowadays modern orchestras are pretty colorful (although leaning toward Asian women) - musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races (although a willingness to practice endlessly helps for classical music). It seems to me that you could insulate yourself against any possible "disparate impact" suits in this way.

    What Google should do (after they get rid of Pikachu) is to announce that from now on, they are only going to do hiring for programmers from an annual anonymous coding contests. They will hire from the top of the list and go down until they have the # of programmers that they need during the year. Every entrant will get assigned a # (with appropriate security measures to keep out ringers) but until the contest is over, Google will have no way of knowing your race, gender, age, sexual orientation, preferred pronoun or anything about you. In order to build excitement, not only will the winners get a job at Google, but the top 3 finishers will get big prizes, etc. (conditioned on their staying at Google for 5 years). Google will publicize all this widely on their home page, etc. so that everyone knows about the competition. These contests will be pre-verified by testing experts to correlate with the actual skills needed to be a Google programmer. The final will be streamed live on YouTube and a curtain will rise to reveal the top 3 winners who will step forward and have $1 million in Googlecash be loaded onto their Googlephones. If the winners of the contests are all female or all black or whatever, that's who will come work for them (I say all female or all black because we know that programming skills are randomly distributed among all races and genders).

    Of course the SJW's won't go for this because they really don't care whether Google gets the best programmers, they just want their share of the spoils. In order to put their thumb on the scale, they will demand that the contest contain subjective measures like "empathy". But I doubt that the Trump Administration will back them on this - Google should get them on board in advance and have Trump tweet about how "great" the Google contest is, etc.

    This is never going to happen the way Google is now, but after it all comes crashing down (possibly literally - imagine if Google went dark for several days like BA did because of some programming screwup) and they clean house, it could happen as a way of restoring public confidence.

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races

    I think it depends on the music. You’re not going to be writing four-part fugues with an IQ of 100, and you’re probably not going to be very good at performing them either. But you’d be fine in a church choir.

    Jews are very much overrepresented among the great pianists, as they are in chess, so that’s conspicuous. (Vladimir Horowitz: “There are three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists.”)

    Here’s Martha Argerich, whose maternal grandparents were Russian Jews, performing my favorite all-white note passage of all time, starting at 5:46: Martha Argerich – Prokofiev – Piano Concerto No 3 – Previn (Soon-Yi’s father conducts)

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    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Andre Watts may be the exception that proves Horowitz's rule.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuZpMCMeD8

    Also, his interpretation of the Composer is as if fired straight out of the Horowitzer canon.
    , @larry lurker
    Thanks, I wasn't familiar with him. I actually filed the name away in my head when you mentioned him earlier in the thread.

    Why not another Prokofiev link: Evgeny Kissin plays Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet & Piano Sonata no. 8 - video 2009

    Timestamp (42:45) is for the finale of the 3rd movement, which often goes to shit even for the best pianists. Kissin murders it here. (The fro gives away his ethnic background...)
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  111. @larry lurker

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races
     
    I think it depends on the music. You're not going to be writing four-part fugues with an IQ of 100, and you're probably not going to be very good at performing them either. But you'd be fine in a church choir.

    Jews are very much overrepresented among the great pianists, as they are in chess, so that's conspicuous. (Vladimir Horowitz: "There are three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists.")

    Here's Martha Argerich, whose maternal grandparents were Russian Jews, performing my favorite all-white note passage of all time, starting at 5:46: Martha Argerich - Prokofiev - Piano Concerto No 3 - Previn (Soon-Yi's father conducts)

    Andre Watts may be the exception that proves Horowitz’s rule.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuZpMCMeD8

    Also, his interpretation of the Composer is as if fired straight out of the Horowitzer canon.

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    • Replies: @larry lurker
    Whoops, my reply here was intended for you.
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  112. Karl says:
    @anonymous
    The "Code Jam" should follow this example from Minneapolis:

    The lineup of speakers for the Loft Literary Center’s conference on writing for children and young adults was stellar. William Alexander, winner of a National Book Award. Kelly Barnhill, winner of the Newbery Medal. Phyllis Root, author of more than 40 books for children. And 19 others.

    Other than Alexander, who is Cuban-American, every writer who agreed to speak was white. And so, just days after announcing it, the Loft in Minneapolis canceled the Oct. 20-21 conference.

    “We have set a goal for ourselves to be inclusive and to work toward equity, and we didn’t think the conference would live up to that mission,” Britt Udesen, executive director of the Loft, said Wednesday. “We made a mistake.”

    Complaints from the public — Udesen declined to say how many, or who — helped prompt the decision to cancel the Children’s and Young Adult Literature (CYA) Conference. Another factor was dwindling interest in the event, which has been held at least every other year since 2003. Only 13 people had registered for this year’s conference.
     
    The jam should be canceled until it is woke.

    21 anonymous > “We have set a goal for ourselves to sell enough tickets for the organizers to get a strong bullet point towards making tenure, and we didn’t think the conference would live up to that mission,”

    pardon my freelance translation

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  113. @larry lurker

    musical skill is not highly g loaded and and is found in all the races
     
    I think it depends on the music. You're not going to be writing four-part fugues with an IQ of 100, and you're probably not going to be very good at performing them either. But you'd be fine in a church choir.

    Jews are very much overrepresented among the great pianists, as they are in chess, so that's conspicuous. (Vladimir Horowitz: "There are three kinds of pianists: Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists.")

    Here's Martha Argerich, whose maternal grandparents were Russian Jews, performing my favorite all-white note passage of all time, starting at 5:46: Martha Argerich - Prokofiev - Piano Concerto No 3 - Previn (Soon-Yi's father conducts)

    Thanks, I wasn’t familiar with him. I actually filed the name away in my head when you mentioned him earlier in the thread.

    Why not another Prokofiev link: Evgeny Kissin plays Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet & Piano Sonata no. 8 – video 2009

    Timestamp (42:45) is for the finale of the 3rd movement, which often goes to shit even for the best pianists. Kissin murders it here. (The fro gives away his ethnic background…)

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    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Thanks for the link. I'm not familiar with Prokofiev, it's interesting stuff. I also noted the Wikipedia article on him said he became acquainted with a world chess champion, then proceeded to beat him :()
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  114. szopen says:
    @Goatweed
    Anyone compare how the Slavs and the East Asians teach the subject with how other countries are teaching it?

    I am not sure whether it has anything to do with method of teaching. I’d saythat’s rather a question of where intelligent people decide to pursue their careers. Simply, in IT a literal “no name” with no family connections can get a lots and lots of money, so instead to go for medicine or law, or business, they can play it safe and go for being a programmer.

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  115. @Negrolphin Pool
    Andre Watts may be the exception that proves Horowitz's rule.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuZpMCMeD8

    Also, his interpretation of the Composer is as if fired straight out of the Horowitzer canon.

    Whoops, my reply here was intended for you.

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  116. Karl says:
    @American Stupidity
    This is a list of past winners for Google's Code Jam:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Code_Jam

    Not only are they all male, but notice also not a single Indian coder has ever won 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in this competition, EVER. Every single winner is either white(and mostly Eastern European) or East Asian(Chinese/Japanese).

    This is consistent with the NSA coding contest results. Each year the winners are either Chinese or Russian. Not a single Indian coder ever made it to the finalist.
    http://www.computerworld.com/article/2525109/app-development/china-dominates-nsa-backed-coding-contest.html

    So why do we continue to refer to Indians as "best and brightest" and "highly skilled", and continue to give them vast majority of our H1b visas? Time for a wake up call on these chest thumping scammers of the East.

    33 American Stupidity > the NSA coding contest

    oh, you guys do that, too?

    https://www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&client=opera&hs=fKC&q=מגשימים+8200&oq=מגשימים+8200&gs_l=psy-ab.3…5837.8754.0.11326.2.2.0.0.0.0.922.1520.5-1j1.2.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.YuyzS02JJf4

    or just copy/paste this into your search bar: 8200 מגשימים

    google will offer to translate results for you

    by the way…….

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/for-hack-contest-winners-a-ticket-into-unit-8200/

    well, look at that…… no ethiopian kids

    color me shocked

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  117. @Opinionator
    What is good about them?

    We are writing a 64 bit version of our application. The current 32 bit version is a mixture of C, hand-crafted assembler from 25 years ago, and an internally developed “meta” language that describes the model and figures out how to call the assembler.

    These two Russian guys love C. But they picked up the above quite quickly and are having a great time writing the new 64 bit version entirely in C. Interestingly enough, the new version is still not that much faster than the 32 bit version, but we/they are still in the make it work phase of “make it work, make it right, make it faster”.

    These two guys were part of a 3 man team that did a product that eventually got bought by Google. The lead guy came to the USA and is working for Google. The other two like living where they are some 400 km from Moscow and working for what we pay them. It also helps that they are still in their thirties, full of piss and vinegar, and believe they can do anything. I used to be that way; now I am wiser. Otherwise known as old and tired.

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  118. @Peripatetic commenter
    Of course, those contests use such pathetic languages as C++, Java and Python.

    Real Men use Assembler. And toggle it in on the front panel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360_Model_50

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  119. @Jim Don Bob
    I'll bet there were no NAM finalists either. I work remotely with a couple of Russian guys and they are really good.

    Proof there’s a glass ceiling. (/sarc)

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  120. AdamW says:

    So…what?

    OK, let me unpack that a bit. Let’s say the winners and finalists of this Code Jam thing are overwhelmingly male, and the reason for this is, as some commenters argue, that there are more men at the extreme end of the proficiency scale for certain specific things.

    So what?

    This has almost nothing to contribute to the ‘women in tech’ debate, because this is an extremely niche skill set. Being good at chess means…you’re good at chess. Being good at extremely artificial ‘advanced programming’ scenarios means…you’re good at those. That’s just about *all* it means. OK, it may just possibly mean that unequal sex representation among some *extremely specific*, *very small* groups of real-world software engineers has a biological basis, let’s go that far.

    But here’s the thing: there are *millions and millions* of people employed as programmers or software engineers or quality engineers or…all sorts of other tech jobs. And almost none of them are John Carmack. The *vast majority* of tech workers don’t spend our days in heroic solo development of brand new, unfathomably complex algorithms. We spend them finding the stupid fucking typo someone left in some hideous shell script six years ago. Or, much more to the point, we spend them trying to figure out user needs, or collaborating on pull requests, or debugging. That kind of work has just about as much to do with this kind of programming contest as it does with hang gliding or, well, chess.

    If anything, the conclusion I’d be tempted to reach is that this is one of those “what my friends think I do / what I think I do / what I actually do” things: some men tend to *believe* that working in tech is about heroically achieving unfathomably complex tasks, and thus believe that’s the skill set you need to work effectively in tech. Which is just…wrong.

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  121. @larry lurker
    Thanks, I wasn't familiar with him. I actually filed the name away in my head when you mentioned him earlier in the thread.

    Why not another Prokofiev link: Evgeny Kissin plays Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet & Piano Sonata no. 8 - video 2009

    Timestamp (42:45) is for the finale of the 3rd movement, which often goes to shit even for the best pianists. Kissin murders it here. (The fro gives away his ethnic background...)

    Thanks for the link. I’m not familiar with Prokofiev, it’s interesting stuff. I also noted the Wikipedia article on him said he became acquainted with a world chess champion, then proceeded to beat him :()

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  122. @carol
    Terrible optics, as they say. Nazis stay home!

    Demonstrations just don't work for us.
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  123. @Steve Sailer
    No, disparate impact theory shifts the presumption of guilt to the employer. But employers can overcome that burden. A lot of them go to the trouble and expense of doing so.

    Thanks, I didn’t know that. Still pretty bad though.

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