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Here’s a 2012 posting at Legal Insurrection casting doubt on Senator Warren’s “My parents had to elope because my mother was an Indian” theory. The local newspaper article on their wedding portrays her mother as a socially popular daughter of a prominent local businessman.

On the other hand, lots of families have lots of complicated stories. (My go-to illustration of this is that Gerald Ford — the exemplar of a normal All-American man of broad but not overwhelming talents, athletic, legal, and political, — was named Lesley King until he was 3.)

On the other, other hand, most Americans today assume from the black analogy that back in 1932 there must have been some sort of One Drop Rule against intermarriage with anybody with any Indian ancestry. But in 1932, the Vice President of the United States, Charles Curtis, was famously part Indian. Similarly, one of the first two Senators Oklahoma sent to Washington in 1907, Robert L. Owen, was famously part Cherokee and had won a $5 million judgement against the U.S. government for the Trail of Tears.

So, there was, in general, very little social detriment to being a tiny bit American Indian in the U.S. in the first half of the 20th Century. On the other hand, perhaps Senator Warren’s father’s parents had old-fashioned views dating back to the Indian Wars? (Anti-Indianism had largely died out by 1932 and been replaced by Indianphilia, but hatred of Indians was common in the 19th Century among Westerners who’d had to deal with them. For example, Mark Twain was fairly pro-black but he absolutely hated Indians.)

Or perhaps “Indian” was a euphemism for a more direct problem in her mother’s family, such as too great of a taste for firewater?

Let me offer a different line of speculation: as a law professor, Professor Warren was intimately acquainted with the endless arguments over affirmative action, such as the Supreme Court’s famous Bakke decision of 1978. So her statements that she was just identifying as an American Indian so she might be invited to join a social club of Indians are silly. Affirmative action was a huge issue in the law at the time she identified herself officially on forms as American Indian.

What’s more possible is that as somebody who started out as a Republican, not changing her registration to Democrat until 1996, that she was, in effect, trolling the affirmative action system by pointing out the absurdity in the system that even she could claim to be worthy of affirmative action.

Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian? What’s the minimum cutoff level of ancestry needed? Exacerbate the Contradictions!

Warren was ideologically affiliated with Richard Posner’s “Law and Economics” movement up until she researched consumer bankruptcies in the mid-1980s, so hostility toward affirmative action would not have been implausible.

 
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  1. Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?

    • Replies: @Flip
    I had business dealings with a very white looking Irish surnamed guy who was a registered American Indian and got minority contracts.
    , @PSR
    Well checking off those latter two boxes could find you in hot water over misrepresentation but if you were born in the U.S. you are in fact and by law a native American.
    , @John Henry
    I've thought of doing this for quite some time. Though the fact is the last two Census forms ask if one is "American Indian", not "Native American". The closest it comes is the question about being "Alaskan Native".

    My brother was born in Hawaii so I advise him to check off "Pacific Islander", or "Native Hawaiian".
    , @Frederic Smith
    I think it would be a fine thing for everyone to check the African American box. 1) We are all ultimately out of Africa, they say. 2) Race is a social construct anyway, they also say. 3) When the reparations checks start going out, we can all get in line!
    , @Bill Jones
    "WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?"
    I might win and you don't like Liberia after all.
    , @Wilkey

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?

     

    On the Census: No no no no, hell no. By doing so you are increasing the number of blacks, or Native Americans or whatever who need to be "represented." So be honest on the census.

    On work forms, loan applications, and elsewhere: hell yes. By doing so you are increasing the share that has been represented - the number of loans the bank has made to blacks, the number of blacks employed by your firm, etc. My wife and I identified as black and Hispanic when we applied for our last mortgage. No one ever challenged us.

    It's unlikely that many banks or employers will challenge your claim. They want to be able to tell the government they've given more loans to "minorities" and have more minorities on the payroll. And if you've identified as a minority then they have plausible deniability when and if the government comes asking (which it probably won't).

    I say all this being fairly certain that Census Records can't be accessed by any businesses or even other government agencies. Census records aren't made public until 72 years after the census. So if you check yourself as white on the census, but then claim yourself to be something else for the purposes of, say, a small business loan or employment, they can't go dig up your census records until you are either dead or well into retirement.
  2. I have told the story here before about checking the “Hispanic” box on the PSAT and receiving special scholarship offers in the mail. I am about as Hispanic as klister ski wax.

    That was a little joke performed during adolescence. Warren has no such excuse. She is fabulously shallow and therefore highly qualified for politics. It will be fun to watch how Trump handles her when she is the nominee.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    You’re presuming that Trump will be her opponent.
  3. “So, there was, in general, very little social detriment to being a tiny bit American Indian in the U.S. in the first half of the 20th Century. ”

    Washington Redskins: Founded in 1932

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926

    Florida State Seminoles adopted that mascot in 1947 with the blessing of the Seminole tribe.

    In short, Warren is either a liar, daft, suffering from dementia, or a little of all three. She’s got my vote.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    The Edmonton Eskimos first appeared in 1895, though the present club is newer.


    The world's first organized soccer club outside Britain was apparently Boston's Oneida Football Club. I'm pretty sure I've posted their roster here before (maybe at VFR), and it sure doesn't sound very "Native":


    Many are instantly recognizable as key figures in Boston history: captain and Oneida founder Gerrit Smith Miller, Edward Lincoln Arnold, Robert Apthorp Boit, Edward Bowditch, Walter Denison Brooks, George Davis, John Malcolm Forbes, John Power Hall, Robert Means Lawrence, James D’Wolf Lovett, Francis Greenwood Peabody, Winthrop Saltonstall Scudder, Alanson Tucker, Louis Thies, Robert Clifford Watson, and Huntington Frothingham Wolcott.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/11/21/oneida-football-club-first-team-play-high-school-football/OBtaKz79JZcmtxkm5WQ40M/story.html
     


    Washington Redskins: Founded in 1932

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912
     

    The Redskins were originally the Boston Braves, too, as they played at the baseball Braves' (or Bees') field. They got a better deal in Fenway, so they dropped "Braves" and became Redskins to honor their new landlords.

    The Braves, not the Reds, are the oldest club in MLB, though the latter are the oldest in their original city. Same with the Cardinals and Packers in football.


    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915
     
    They were the Napoleons before that. Nap Lajoie was the most prominent frog in baseball until Leo Durocher.

    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cleveland_Naps
    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cleveland_Molly_Maguires


    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926
     
    By Big Ten custom, they should have been the Suckers, but thought better of it.

    https://illinoistimes.com/article-895-the-sucker-state-.html

    https://chicagoist.com/2012/09/27/illinois_the_sucker_state.php

    https://fromthehistoryroom.wordpress.com/tag/sucker-state/

    http://www.illinoishistory.com/winnebagowar.html

    , @Hail

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926
     

    And the Iroquois Theater opened in Chicago in 1903. (Famously closing later that year with the loss of many lives to fire.)

    [The Iroquois Theater was] one of the most opulent and modern theatres in the world. The magnificent theatre, built for over $1 million, was designed by architect Benjamin H. Marshall and was patterned after the famous Opera Comique in Paris.
     
    ($1,000,000 at the time was equivalent to the annual salaries of 2,250 median American salary earners [1900 census].)

    On Blacks vs. Indians.:

    Would anyone have named a major White-oriented theater with a name like the Zulu or the like? Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 -- imagine "The Nat Turner Theater"...!

    , @istevefan
    Don't forget the US Army has been naming its helicopters after Indians since the 1940s.
  4. I know a guy from OK who was born in 1930 and whose parents got married in the 1920s. According to him, his mother always liked to talk about how she was slightly Cherokee.

    • Replies: @Hail
    Here is a well-known case not yet mentioned in this thread:

    A certain young British aristocrat, then in his mid-20s, known as Lord Churchill, married an American woman, then age 20, in early 1874. They had met "at a sailing regatta on the Isle of Wight" the previous August.

    The bride was said to be part-American Indian.

    This was an early and well-known case of the "part-Indian great-grandmother" stories, now so cliche and as often as not disproved by 23andMe-like tests. Most Churchill experts seem to dismiss the claim as unlikely to be true.

    What were the Churchills' attitudes towards this ancestry claim? A Winston Churchill website describes the Churchill family's attitude on it thusly:


    Long before the age of political correctness, some Churchills delighted in extolling the legend of their Native American blood, believed to have been introduced through Jennie Jerome’s maternal grandmother, Clarissa Willcox.
     
    This is vague and unclear as to what era this attitude dates to. Maybe someone knows what PM Churchill, the one fond of drink and who could turn a phrase well, said on the matter himself.

    Note -- A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents' wedding day in 1874.

    , @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I live in Oklahoma and there is no stigma whatsoever for having some Indian heritage. Although the real Indians do make fun of the whites who go around bragging about being part Indian, even though a lot of those whites do have tribal cards.
    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    My family on my father's side is also from Oklahoma. My father was born in 1930. We had the same bullshit Cherokee story in my family, too. Complete with the great, great aunts with the high-cheekbones! I think every white person from Oklahoma thinks he's part indian. It ain't so. In my case a DNA test confirmed it was bullshit. But my father went to his grave thinking it was true.
  5. Similarly, one of the first two Senators Oklahoma sent to Washington in 1907, Robert L. Owen, was famously part Cherokee and had won a $5 million judgement against the U.S. government for the Trail of Tears.

    The U.S. government, but not the Democratic Party. They never have to pay for their sins.

    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Well, we’re all Kenyan-Americans, or Tanganyikan-American, aren’t we?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    LOL ... so it's OK after all that I've ticked African-American on all those forms.
  6. @Reg Cæsar

    Similarly, one of the first two Senators Oklahoma sent to Washington in 1907, Robert L. Owen, was famously part Cherokee and had won a $5 million judgement against the U.S. government for the Trail of Tears.
     
    The U.S. government, but not the Democratic Party. They never have to pay for their sins.

    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

     

    Well, we're all Kenyan-Americans, or Tanganyikan-American, aren't we?


    https://scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/hires/2011/genoprojecthumanmigrationmap_print.jpg

    https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/54cbf72d5e7a91c52822cee6/16:9/w_2560,c_limit/image.jpg

    LOL … so it’s OK after all that I’ve ticked African-American on all those forms.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Thank you, Alarmist. You don't know much you and Reg have eased my mind tonight, as I didn't know if I could keep up this hair-curling routine till the statute of limitations comes up on our silver wedding anniversary (not a coincidence). The kids were bound to start asking questions.
  7. I check the Hispanic box. It is such a vague category and as someone with probably 15-20 percent of my ancestors from France, including Cajuns, I’m sure there were at least a few Iberians in there at some point even if I cannot prove it. And I’m pretty sure legally Cajuns and Quebecois can count as Latinos, though perhaps not “hispanics.” Plus I look pretty Mediterranean anyway. I’m darker than Catherine Zeta Jones, for example, and she has played at least 2 Latina roles.

    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
    Of course she was trolling. The problem is, federally, and in most states, claiming Indian heritage has to be supported by actual facts, at least to gain any benefit. You can go around all day claiming it to friends and co-workers, but if you actually put it on a form, it has to be proven, if asked (or in some cases, with some problems, provided at the time of submission).

    However, claiming the nebulous "Hispanic/Latino" category does not have to be proven, and most whites have Iberian heritage which DOES qualify (it is a myth you have to be of Latin American heritage to qualify as Hispanic). Arguably, black would be the same way, but no one wants to claim to be black, except for Shaun King.

    Warren is an opportunist who probably in her private life and moments is a right-of -center libertarian.
    , @OscarWildeLoveChild
    There has been a discussion about whether or not Louisiana Creoles (of which I descend) can claim Latino, generally. I think the consensus is "yes", now that it's clear Brazilians do. I am from both the french and iberian creoles of Louisiana. Most Cajuns (by now) and certainly almost all Creoles, have Criollo heritage (Spain).
    , @anonymous
    Good for you man.

    I'm going for a Spanish immersion course in Chile this winter (their summer), I m also shopping around for a Hispanic 2nd wife.

    Any future children I have will be half Hispanic - White Hispanic.

    They're going to check that "hispanic box".

    Plus Harvard and Yale Whites have to be at least 50% Jewish.
  8. this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    I think the Democratic Party is trying to sell her to the hardcore female Hillary Clinton supporter.

    -She’s “younger” (by two years) but not young enough to sour female lefty boomers.

    -Cleaner and less corrupt. (Can anyone truly beat the Clintons?) The Indian thing is very tiny. Between her and Hillary, it’s comparing a little fly poop in a vat vs. a vat of poop.

    -More energetic and friendly in appearance.

    -Doesn’t have the fierce foes and betrayed/lethargic allies of the Clintons.

    -She was on Hillary’s Vice Presidential shortlist. So many believe there’s donor/voter compatibility.
    , @Mr. Anon

    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.
     
    Probably describes nearly everybody who runs for President.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe

    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.
     
    I'm not trying to be snide, but I'm pretty sure the definition of "sociopath" is a lot more specific than merely being willing to lie in order to reap personal benefit.
  9. When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. She’s an idiot. She should be publicly asked to prove enrollable status or drop out of the race for lying.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    She's already admitted she's not a tribal member and apologized for implying it. She hasn't apologized for basing her entire career on the lie, however, and she certainly hasn't offered any sort of "reparations" for the undeserved benefits she received.
  10. OT: Just watched the Netflix movie In the Shadow of the Moon. It’s a sci-fi love letter to cancel culture. Quite literally memory-holing the past, erasing people who thought bad thoughts, because “some thoughts should never be thought.”

    • Replies: @TWS
    Once I figured out what the message was I quit watching. But it's ok to kill people you disagree with now is the message. Not just those people but anyone who influences them.
    , @Joe Stalin
    So did they erased that damn racist William Shockley; "Shockley is the man who brought silicon to Silicon Valley?"

    Boy, that sounds almost like how Dr. Wernher von Braun, the man responsible for getting us to the Moon and completely erased in both the ABC and CBS retrospectives on the Apollo 11 landings this year.
  11. I thought Tony Blair was bad. She is worse, I hope to God she doesn’t win.

    The continuing Brett Kavanaugh fiasco proves beyond doubt that she, Kamala Harris, Maisie Hirono, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke are completely devoid of scruples and morals.

    Britain never recovered from Blair and almost certainly never will.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    The continuing Brett Kavanaugh fiasco proves beyond doubt that she, Kamala Harris, Maisie Hirono, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke are completely devoid of scruples and morals.
     
    Yes, and now she is mouthing support for impeachment, which is enough again to disqualify her and any of the others who have jumped on that train.

    We can say it again: One thing the Trump Era has done is make it even more obvious how hollow and unprincipled so many of our leaders are.

    , @anon

    Britain never recovered from Blair and almost certainly never will.
     
    To your point, let's recognize the Tony Blair led increase in third-world immigration into the U.K. The vast herds of back country Pakistanis, etc.

    The U.K. might assimilate other Europeans.

    The people-groups that Blair and his ilk brought in formed the "grooming gangs" that have likely rendered thousands of indigenous English females incapable of mothering the next generation of English offspring, if not literally sterile from STD's.
    Not to mention the foreign-bastards resulting from gang rapes, now growing up on the dole paid by taxes on the indigenous English.

    Immigration is a force-multiplier for the genocide against the English.

    Check out that UN definition of genocide, which includes:
    Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group . . . https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

    Tony Blair and his henchmen are documented as bragging about "rubbing the Conservative's noses" in "diversity". Diversity looks more and more like genocide with every passing year.
  12. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "So, there was, in general, very little social detriment to being a tiny bit American Indian in the U.S. in the first half of the 20th Century. "

    Washington Redskins: Founded in 1932

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926

    Florida State Seminoles adopted that mascot in 1947 with the blessing of the Seminole tribe.

    In short, Warren is either a liar, daft, suffering from dementia, or a little of all three. She's got my vote.

    The Edmonton Eskimos first appeared in 1895, though the present club is newer.

    The world’s first organized soccer club outside Britain was apparently Boston’s Oneida Football Club. I’m pretty sure I’ve posted their roster here before (maybe at VFR), and it sure doesn’t sound very “Native”:

    Many are instantly recognizable as key figures in Boston history: captain and Oneida founder Gerrit Smith Miller, Edward Lincoln Arnold, Robert Apthorp Boit, Edward Bowditch, Walter Denison Brooks, George Davis, John Malcolm Forbes, John Power Hall, Robert Means Lawrence, James D’Wolf Lovett, Francis Greenwood Peabody, Winthrop Saltonstall Scudder, Alanson Tucker, Louis Thies, Robert Clifford Watson, and Huntington Frothingham Wolcott.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/11/21/oneida-football-club-first-team-play-high-school-football/OBtaKz79JZcmtxkm5WQ40M/story.html

    Washington Redskins: Founded in 1932

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    The Redskins were originally the Boston Braves, too, as they played at the baseball Braves’ (or Bees’) field. They got a better deal in Fenway, so they dropped “Braves” and became Redskins to honor their new landlords.

    The Braves, not the Reds, are the oldest club in MLB, though the latter are the oldest in their original city. Same with the Cardinals and Packers in football.

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    They were the Napoleons before that. Nap Lajoie was the most prominent frog in baseball until Leo Durocher.

    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cleveland_Naps
    https://ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cleveland_Molly_Maguires

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926

    By Big Ten custom, they should have been the Suckers, but thought better of it.

    https://illinoistimes.com/article-895-the-sucker-state-.html

    https://chicagoist.com/2012/09/27/illinois_the_sucker_state.php

    https://fromthehistoryroom.wordpress.com/tag/sucker-state/

    http://www.illinoishistory.com/winnebagowar.html

  13. @Daniel H
    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what's the worst that can happen?

    I had business dealings with a very white looking Irish surnamed guy who was a registered American Indian and got minority contracts.

  14. Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here…

    I was in the US Army for 27 years and, after the first few years of hard-partying, heavy-drinking, fast f**king, apolitical youth, I started checking “Native American” on every form and survey for the next quarter century. As a native born white man-child of third generation Americans – what else am I?

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    As a native born white man-child of third generation Americans – what else am I?
     
    Only three generations? You are an immigrant.
  15. In the early 90’s, EVERYONE in humanities grad programs talked about checking the Native American box, and we ALL decided it would be morally wrong to do so since we hadn’t experienced any discrimination based on our putative Native American ancestry (interestingly, we all had either 1/16 or 1/32 stories in our families). I’m sure it helped that there was a grad student in our program who really was 1/2 Cherokee—with a tribal identification card and everything (he liked to hang antifeminist National Review covers in his office cube to troll the feminists). In any event, we all knew it was a bullshit thing to do.
    I’m pretty sure the same attitude held in law schools, since Lizzie Warren seems to be the ONLY person to use that dodge to get a Harvard appointment. That kind of cheating–which everyone else passed on–should be punished harshly, no matter how late in a person’s career it is discovered: you make suckers out of all those who played by the rules, you get the boot. Sadly, this does not appear to be the case if you’ve slithered yourself onto a really good branch surrounded by other powerful snakes.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk

    In the early 90’s, EVERYONE in humanities grad programs talked about checking the Native American box, and we ALL decided it would be morally wrong to do so since we hadn’t experienced any discrimination based on our putative Native American ancestry
     
    What is morally wrong is giving racial preferences to the out group - to the LOSERS - to the supplicating and demanding defeated - whoever they may be. White people should support other white people - show preference to them - in the institutions they created for themselves - universities, corporations, social clubs, representative governments - and actively exclude non-whites from these European innovations.

    To me, checking "Native American" is like saying "I am Spartacus!" - if we are ALL Native Americans then no one deserves special treatment (for the LOSERS).

    The people we call "Native Americans" did not originate here any more than Europeans did - they just migrated here earlier. And then they LOST the battle for this land. We need to stop the idealization and phony goodwhite worship of the superiority of the primitive - foreign or domestic. They LOST.

    , @Don't Look at Me
    I disagree. It's tough enough to be successful without someone putting a thumb on the scale of the competition. If you are being unfairly discriminated against, you do what you have to do.
  16. If I see “Native American” on the form, I do check it. My ancestors were here before 1776 and helped found the United States of America. I am a 7th generation Native American, if you go back to the direct male ancestor who fought in the 3rd Virginia and crossed the Delaware to kill Germans in their sleep. 11th Generation if you go back to my first direct male ancestor to live on these shores.

    Indians are what ever tribe they claim to belong to.

    But I have not seen “Native American” on a government form in over 20 years. The last time was a form the city of Lexington, Kentucky had printed. All the Federal forms I have filled out recently have had a box for “American Indian, Alaskan Native”.

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    New comer! My ancestors landed with Hanno the Navigator of Carthage.
  17. @The Alarmist
    LOL ... so it's OK after all that I've ticked African-American on all those forms.

    Thank you, Alarmist. You don’t know much you and Reg have eased my mind tonight, as I didn’t know if I could keep up this hair-curling routine till the statute of limitations comes up on our silver wedding anniversary (not a coincidence). The kids were bound to start asking questions.

    • LOL: The Alarmist
  18. Steve,

    Playing fast and loose with background facts are par for the course for Warren. Another example: claiming an impoverished upbringing whereas in fact she tooled around in her own personal auto while attending high school. This was a singular mark of family affluence at that time and place!

    This record of venality makes her singularly worthy for the Presidency!

  19. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Elizabeth Warren not only claimed to be “Cherokee” in contributing recipes to the “Pow Wow Chow” cookbook, but seems to have directly plagiarized the “Native American” recipes from Pierre Franey of the New York Times.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanjrobinson/status/1177324882159374350

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Liz's Prairie Oysters recipe was a favorite of Big Chief Cole Porter and Head Squaw Duchess of Windsor.
  20. It was never clear to me that “she” of Delaware and Cherokee ancestry, was the Mom or not. Maybe the reason for the elopement was that “she” was an illegitimate Injun child, long-lost sister to Chief Warren, whom the candidate used to refer to as the rain-woman, sent first to the institution, then lost forever in the mysterious disappearance of the complete Billerica–Chelmsford tribe during the Big Dig.

    She shoulda’ paid for more than 30 seconds, the cheapskate, to make this clear to me. (Were I to watch the TV and live in Massachusetts, that is – both not bloody likely!)

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    People, you've got the wrong "take" on Ms. Warren's TV commerical.

    C'mon, think, maybe you aren't old enough, but where have you seen this level of TV reasoning before. You know, the sense of grievance. The sense of mistreatment by the political opposition. The sense that the charges against you raised by your opponent(s) are ridiculous.

    Would the argument go something like "It was a little cocker spaniel dog in a crate that he'd sent all the way from Texas. Black and white spotted. And our little girl—Tricia, the 6-year-old—named it Checkers. And you know, the kids, like all kids, love the dog and I just want to say this right now, that regardless of what they say about it, we're gonna keep it."

    "My parents had to elope." "I can't give back the gift from the donor -- it was a black and white spotted Cocker Spaniel dog, and how can you, in the name of humanity, take this pet away from a little girl?"

    Liz Warren as Dick Nixon -- am I the only one seeing this?
  21. @22pp22
    I thought Tony Blair was bad. She is worse, I hope to God she doesn't win.

    The continuing Brett Kavanaugh fiasco proves beyond doubt that she, Kamala Harris, Maisie Hirono, Cory Booker and Beto O'Rourke are completely devoid of scruples and morals.

    Britain never recovered from Blair and almost certainly never will.

    The continuing Brett Kavanaugh fiasco proves beyond doubt that she, Kamala Harris, Maisie Hirono, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke are completely devoid of scruples and morals.

    Yes, and now she is mouthing support for impeachment, which is enough again to disqualify her and any of the others who have jumped on that train.

    We can say it again: One thing the Trump Era has done is make it even more obvious how hollow and unprincipled so many of our leaders are.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1177068312754147329

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1177073313992126466
  22. @Daniel H
    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what's the worst that can happen?

    Well checking off those latter two boxes could find you in hot water over misrepresentation but if you were born in the U.S. you are in fact and by law a native American.

  23. Elizabeth Warren says her parents had to elope because she was part Cherokee and part Delaware.

    Steve, you should have explained that “she” referred to Warren’s mom, not Warren. As written, the sentence seems to mean that Warren’s parents had to elope because they had ancestry from different tribes, which left me wondering what all the talk off a “one-drop” rule was about.

  24. @Buzz Mohawk
    I have told the story here before about checking the "Hispanic" box on the PSAT and receiving special scholarship offers in the mail. I am about as Hispanic as klister ski wax.

    That was a little joke performed during adolescence. Warren has no such excuse. She is fabulously shallow and therefore highly qualified for politics. It will be fun to watch how Trump handles her when she is the nominee.

    You’re presuming that Trump will be her opponent.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I've actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)
  25. @Anonymous
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J_8eTeHIV7Y

    Elizabeth Warren not only claimed to be "Cherokee" in contributing recipes to the "Pow Wow Chow" cookbook, but seems to have directly plagiarized the "Native American" recipes from Pierre Franey of the New York Times.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nathanjrobinson/status/1177324882159374350
     

    Liz’s Prairie Oysters recipe was a favorite of Big Chief Cole Porter and Head Squaw Duchess of Windsor.

  26. @Prof D
    In the early 90's, EVERYONE in humanities grad programs talked about checking the Native American box, and we ALL decided it would be morally wrong to do so since we hadn't experienced any discrimination based on our putative Native American ancestry (interestingly, we all had either 1/16 or 1/32 stories in our families). I'm sure it helped that there was a grad student in our program who really was 1/2 Cherokee—with a tribal identification card and everything (he liked to hang antifeminist National Review covers in his office cube to troll the feminists). In any event, we all knew it was a bullshit thing to do.
    I'm pretty sure the same attitude held in law schools, since Lizzie Warren seems to be the ONLY person to use that dodge to get a Harvard appointment. That kind of cheating--which everyone else passed on--should be punished harshly, no matter how late in a person's career it is discovered: you make suckers out of all those who played by the rules, you get the boot. Sadly, this does not appear to be the case if you've slithered yourself onto a really good branch surrounded by other powerful snakes.

    In the early 90’s, EVERYONE in humanities grad programs talked about checking the Native American box, and we ALL decided it would be morally wrong to do so since we hadn’t experienced any discrimination based on our putative Native American ancestry

    What is morally wrong is giving racial preferences to the out group – to the LOSERS – to the supplicating and demanding defeated – whoever they may be. White people should support other white people – show preference to them – in the institutions they created for themselves – universities, corporations, social clubs, representative governments – and actively exclude non-whites from these European innovations.

    To me, checking “Native American” is like saying “I am Spartacus!” – if we are ALL Native Americans then no one deserves special treatment (for the LOSERS).

    The people we call “Native Americans” did not originate here any more than Europeans did – they just migrated here earlier. And then they LOST the battle for this land. We need to stop the idealization and phony goodwhite worship of the superiority of the primitive – foreign or domestic. They LOST.

  27. Her statement that she was just identifying as an American Indian so she might be invited to join a social club of Indians is a bold faced lie.

    Affirmative action was a huge issue in the law in the eighties.The film Soul Man came out in 1986 , which depicted a white guy getting a Harvard scholarship by claiming to be Black. Maybe Warren got her idea to claim Indian heritage from watching this movie. Warren didn’t self-identify as Native American until she was 38 and climbing the law professor ladder in 1986.

    The Cherokee line supposedly was through her maternal grandparents, the Crawfords. Cherokee genealogist Twila Barnes has come up a newspaper clipping from the Muskogee Times Democrat on August 17, 1906. The newspaper clipping relates to a story about how Warren’s great grandfather, John H. Crawford, shot a real Indian and Crawford was identified in the newspaper as white. Warren’s mother’s family was identified as white even in the local paper in 1906.
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2012/10/04/1906-Newspaper-Elizabeth-Warren-s-White-Great-Grandfather-Who-She-Claims-Was-Cherokee-Shot-an-Indian/

  28. Only slightly off topic – watching the mini series Chernobyl, and the creators of the show decided to insert a fictional female nuclear physicist Mary Sue into the story, played by Emma Watson, who’s sole purpose is to use magic to immediately deduce from her office that a reactor core at Chernobyl had exploded 300 miles away, before arriving at the scene just in time to save those dumb white males from bollocking up the disaster with their dick wagging and man-spreading/splaining.

    For my own part, as soon as they introduced her character, I know directly that she was made up. /takes bow
    Fortunately, I have been told not to worry about that little bit of outright falsehood in a show that is supposed to be portraying a real event.

    https://www.bustle.com/p/ulana-khomyuk-from-chernobyl-is-not-based-on-a-real-person-but-emily-watsons-character-is-important-all-the-same-17304139

    Never let something as petty as the worst environmental disaster in history get in the way of falsely empowering females.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    Emma Watson was one of the loudest "celebrity voices" supporting the Jussie Smollett hoax. She ramped up the drama online and on national television several times. Hasn't walked a single word of it back.
  29. @bigdicknick
    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.

    I think the Democratic Party is trying to sell her to the hardcore female Hillary Clinton supporter.

    -She’s “younger” (by two years) but not young enough to sour female lefty boomers.

    -Cleaner and less corrupt. (Can anyone truly beat the Clintons?) The Indian thing is very tiny. Between her and Hillary, it’s comparing a little fly poop in a vat vs. a vat of poop.

    -More energetic and friendly in appearance.

    -Doesn’t have the fierce foes and betrayed/lethargic allies of the Clintons.

    -She was on Hillary’s Vice Presidential shortlist. So many believe there’s donor/voter compatibility.

    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
    I was thinking, how much cognitive dissonance you have to have to support a ultra white woman who literally gamed the affirmative action system you even created--a giant middle finger to her own "base" (and all liberals and progressives everywhere), but then the thought came to me...how different is this from right-wingers and/or Christians supporting a guy with multiple marriages/divorces who apparently left his model wife and kid at home to go sleep with a porn star?

    So using Warren's past sins against her, even as ironic as they are (gaming A/A) isn't going to matter to her supporters any more than Trumps sins have with his.
    , @anonn
    The Democratic party is pushing her because they know it's their last chance before the people succeed in turning the party into a real party of the left. The rich liberals, like the Lib Dems in the UK, will do absolutely anything to help the people as long as it doesn't involve them paying a dime in taxes. Every one of Liz's mild, incremental tweaks can be rolled back by a Republican Senate or the next President. As a lawyer, she knows the incremental and technocratic changes she's proposing are guaranteed to be killed by the hard-right partisan judicial activists on the Supreme Court.

    Her proposals for addressing the student loan crisis are instructive. She has a plan with so many thresholds, loopholes, and formulas that it's clear it's intended just to help a tiny handful of people in her favorite constituencies and the rest of us can go hang.

    She is, to her credit, less loathsome than the Clintons, so she's got that going for her.
  30. Anti-Indianism had largely died out by 1932 and been replaced by Indianphilia, but hatred of Indians was common in the 19th Century among Westerners who’d had to deal with them

    What is the turnover period for when Indian-nostalgism displaces anti-Indianism?

    I would propose the turnover occurred in the third quarter of the 19th century.

    General, cultural anti-Indianism proceeded to drop off very quickly in the fourth quarter of the century and became very weak indeed by the early 20th. Probably as anachronistic then as fear/hatred of the Communists and nuclear bomb shelters would be to us today. By the early 20th century, it seems unquestionable that Indian-nostalgism dominated.

    The beginning of the popularity of Indian-nostalgic western novels by the 1880s seems a clue here.

    • Replies: @Lot
    It was regional. I think 1855’s Song of Hiawatha was the real start of Indian romanticism.

    It’s not very good IMO.

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19/19-h/19-h.htm
    , @Colin Wright
    'What is the turnover period for when Indian-nostalgism displaces anti-Indianism?

    I would propose the turnover occurred in the third quarter of the 19th century.'

    I'd say it's more a function of distance than time. Indian-love was already becoming fashionable in the by-then virtually Indian-free East by the mid-nineteenth century. Conversely, I've the distinct impression Indians still aren't indiscriminately adored by all in the intermountain West.
    , @TWS
    Depends upon where you were. In the West, there was more antagonism until recently, in the East much rosier view.
  31. Steve,

    The magic of claiming Native American ancestry: As of 2011 Warren was Harvard’s only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.

    This ancestry chicanery shows how well Warren fits into both Harvard and Massachusetts politics. Symbiotic relationships forged in Hades deepest depths.

    • Replies: @International Jew

    Warren was Harvard’s only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.
     
    And not even a particularly prestigious one.
    , @bigdicknick
    I think there are professors who went to U Michigan law school at harvard. No one went anywhere like Rutgers though. Except the squaw of course.
  32. I remember reading that she has done much for constituents in Nantucket. If she gets the nomination, the limericks will be fun. But seriously, she is, to use the WSJ’s Paul Gigot’s fitting adjective, “slippery.” Slippery is scary, and dangerous. That’s a possible Trump nickname for her — Slippery Liz.

  33. @MBlanc46
    You’re presuming that Trump will be her opponent.

    I’m banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I’ve actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)

    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @Kronos
    He can make Liberals cry like no other, that’s a fact.
    , @ScarletNumber

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking.
     
    I don't know if this was your intention, but Trump's minister literally popularized the concept of positive thinking.
    , @BenKenobi
    I'm pretty jaded but if he were to form the TrumpStaffel tomorrow I'd still enlist.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I’m banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.
     
    Like they say, when you can't repay a $100,000 loan, you have a problem. When you can't repay a $100,000,000 loan, the bank has a problem.
    , @James J OMeara
    "He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified."

    Read all about Trump and positive thinking here:

    https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Meme-James-J-OMeara-ebook/dp/B01NBLFMIR
  34. @Achmed E. Newman
    It was never clear to me that "she" of Delaware and Cherokee ancestry, was the Mom or not. Maybe the reason for the elopement was that "she" was an illegitimate Injun child, long-lost sister to Chief Warren, whom the candidate used to refer to as the rain-woman, sent first to the institution, then lost forever in the mysterious disappearance of the complete Billerica–Chelmsford tribe during the Big Dig.

    She shoulda' paid for more than 30 seconds, the cheapskate, to make this clear to me. (Were I to watch the TV and live in Massachusetts, that is - both not bloody likely!)

    People, you’ve got the wrong “take” on Ms. Warren’s TV commerical.

    C’mon, think, maybe you aren’t old enough, but where have you seen this level of TV reasoning before. You know, the sense of grievance. The sense of mistreatment by the political opposition. The sense that the charges against you raised by your opponent(s) are ridiculous.

    Would the argument go something like “It was a little cocker spaniel dog in a crate that he’d sent all the way from Texas. Black and white spotted. And our little girl—Tricia, the 6-year-old—named it Checkers. And you know, the kids, like all kids, love the dog and I just want to say this right now, that regardless of what they say about it, we’re gonna keep it.”

    “My parents had to elope.” “I can’t give back the gift from the donor — it was a black and white spotted Cocker Spaniel dog, and how can you, in the name of humanity, take this pet away from a little girl?”

    Liz Warren as Dick Nixon — am I the only one seeing this?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    "Checkers, now more than evah!"
  35. significant numbers of American are claiming to be Native American each year. This is one reason the Indian population has been growing much faster than the US population over the last 100 years.

    census – Native Americans
    1950 — 325,000
    1970 — 765,000
    1990 – 2,000,000
    2010 – 5,200,000

    While the white population has grown just 10% since 1970 , the American Indian population has grown 700% since 1970 and the Black population has grown 100%. https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/c2010br-10.pdf

    Would not surpass me if the Census counts close to 9 million Indians on the 2020 census. There are at least 45 million white Americans who have more Native American ancestry than Elizabeth Warren. If they all claim to be Native American on the next census , they would need to increase Native American quotas at the ivy league schools to keep up wight he explosive growth of the Indian population. there are more Americans who have Native American ancestry than African Americans today.

  36. Whether she is or not, Sarah Palin looks more than a little Amerindian to me. If Elizabeth Warren looked like Palin no one would say a word. Warren may be simply taking old family legends that grew over time as Gospel. Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.

    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike. She thinks that a no first use policy by America will make nuclear war less likely.

    https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/02/03/elizabeth-warren-nuclear-weapon-first-use-bill

    In reality, the knowledge that America would not make a first strike would enter into the other side’s (or sides’) calculations, about whether they should go to war conventionally, and/or when to try their own nuclear first strike (possibly out or the blue), in very unpredictable ways. Both sides would become more nervous.

    Moreover the US Strategic Missile forces would be surely relax the criteria for deciding an enemy first strike was underway and launching a retaliatory strike. Thus, a mistake by the US leading to it launching what they thought was retaliatory strike but was actually a first strike would become much more likely, if Warren got her way.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    https://elizabethforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2-EW-with-Amelia.jpg

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    https://www.thewomenseye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5A.jpg

    http://www.unitevoters.com/elizabethwarren.jpg
    , @Anonymous
    She is. Sarah is 1/16 Native and Todd is 1/8 Native. This makes their kids 3/32 Native.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.
     
    Heather Locklear looks even less likely to be an Indian princess, but she not only has Lumbee ancestry, she has a Lumbee surname:

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/locklear.html


    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike.
     
    This shows the deeper idiocy of treating nukes differently from other weaponry. A simple pledge not to use them on civilians should suffice. That way, you could keep first-strike capability, while leaving the first-war-crime option to the other side.

    Hey, wait a minute-- wouldn't a nuclear winter counteract global warming? Let's start dropping

  37. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "So, there was, in general, very little social detriment to being a tiny bit American Indian in the U.S. in the first half of the 20th Century. "

    Washington Redskins: Founded in 1932

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926

    Florida State Seminoles adopted that mascot in 1947 with the blessing of the Seminole tribe.

    In short, Warren is either a liar, daft, suffering from dementia, or a little of all three. She's got my vote.

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926

    And the Iroquois Theater opened in Chicago in 1903. (Famously closing later that year with the loss of many lives to fire.)

    [The Iroquois Theater was] one of the most opulent and modern theatres in the world. The magnificent theatre, built for over $1 million, was designed by architect Benjamin H. Marshall and was patterned after the famous Opera Comique in Paris.

    ($1,000,000 at the time was equivalent to the annual salaries of 2,250 median American salary earners [1900 census].)

    On Blacks vs. Indians.:

    Would anyone have named a major White-oriented theater with a name like the Zulu or the like? Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 — imagine “The Nat Turner Theater”…!

    • Replies: @jon

    Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 — imagine “The Nat Turner Theater”…!
     
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22nat+turner+theater%22+&t=ffab&atb=v106-1&ia=web

    The Nat Turner Theater in New Orleans began publishing a literary magazine, Revolt!, in 1969.
     
    , @Reg Cæsar

    ($1,000,000 at the time was equivalent to the annual salaries of 2,250 median American salary earners [1900 census].)*
     
    The Duke of St. Albans once told an interviewer that an ancestor of his had lost about 50 million pounds in a foolish speculation in South African goldfields, adding after a pause, “That was a lot of money in those days.”

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/09/more-tiresome-demagoguery-about-candidates-income-and-property.html


    *Yes, that's brackets inside parentheses inside blockquote.


    https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/infinity-mirrors.jpg
  38. @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I've actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)

    He can make Liberals cry like no other, that’s a fact.

  39. @syonredux
    I know a guy from OK who was born in 1930 and whose parents got married in the 1920s. According to him, his mother always liked to talk about how she was slightly Cherokee.

    Here is a well-known case not yet mentioned in this thread:

    A certain young British aristocrat, then in his mid-20s, known as Lord Churchill, married an American woman, then age 20, in early 1874. They had met “at a sailing regatta on the Isle of Wight” the previous August.

    The bride was said to be part-American Indian.

    This was an early and well-known case of the “part-Indian great-grandmother” stories, now so cliche and as often as not disproved by 23andMe-like tests. Most Churchill experts seem to dismiss the claim as unlikely to be true.

    What were the Churchills’ attitudes towards this ancestry claim? A Winston Churchill website describes the Churchill family’s attitude on it thusly:

    Long before the age of political correctness, some Churchills delighted in extolling the legend of their Native American blood, believed to have been introduced through Jennie Jerome’s maternal grandmother, Clarissa Willcox.

    This is vague and unclear as to what era this attitude dates to. Maybe someone knows what PM Churchill, the one fond of drink and who could turn a phrase well, said on the matter himself.

    Note — A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents’ wedding day in 1874.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Note — A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents’ wedding day in 1874.
     
    While the first baby may arrive at any time, subsequent ones always take nine months.

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.
    , @Kronos
    It’s my understanding Churchill’s father contracted syphilis at a young age. His school friends got him very drunk and hired a nasty whore to sleep with him. Despite immediately going to a doctor who applied a strong disinfectant, he contracted syphilis. (Which eventually led to a gradual mental decline.)

    Anyway, Churchill’s mother didn’t want to get infected and slept around quite a bit in British high society. I believe Churchill’s first military post was in the Sudan, a sexual favor won from a high ranking official. Maybe Churchill wasn’t a Churchill?
  40. @syonredux
    I know a guy from OK who was born in 1930 and whose parents got married in the 1920s. According to him, his mother always liked to talk about how she was slightly Cherokee.

    I live in Oklahoma and there is no stigma whatsoever for having some Indian heritage. Although the real Indians do make fun of the whites who go around bragging about being part Indian, even though a lot of those whites do have tribal cards.

  41. The idea that Cherokee ancestry was shameful in the United States or Oklahoma in 1932, would seem to be completely debunked by the fact that the single most popular man in American at that time – Will Rogers – was a proud Cherokee citizen.

    Known as “Oklahoma’s Favorite Son”,[1] Rogers was born to a Cherokee family in Indian Territory (now part of Oklahoma). As an entertainer and humorist, he traveled around the world three times, made 71 films (50 silent films and 21 “talkies”),[2] and wrote more than 4,000 nationally syndicated newspaper columns.[3]

    By the mid-1930s Rogers was hugely popular in the United States, its leading political wit and the highest paid of Hollywood film stars. He died in 1935 with aviator Wiley Post when their small airplane crashed in northern Alaska.[4]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I know a half dozen people who are Indian enough to get enrolled and get the card and minor goodies but have no interest in doing so. None are particularly liberal or SJWish. Most voted for Trump.
  42. @Buzz Mohawk

    The continuing Brett Kavanaugh fiasco proves beyond doubt that she, Kamala Harris, Maisie Hirono, Cory Booker and Beto O’Rourke are completely devoid of scruples and morals.
     
    Yes, and now she is mouthing support for impeachment, which is enough again to disqualify her and any of the others who have jumped on that train.

    We can say it again: One thing the Trump Era has done is make it even more obvious how hollow and unprincipled so many of our leaders are.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    https://iotwreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/elizabeth-warren-evil-2-.jpg
  43. What’s more possible is that as somebody who started out as a Republican, not changing her registration to Democrat until 1996,

    She was a Republican? I’m surprised the other dems don’t use that against her.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    The Sanders team does, and will ramp that criticism up when Warren overtakes Biden.
    , @International Jew
    And I'm surprised she changed her political outlook so much, when she was already in her forties. That's surely quite rare.
  44. I know a middle aged woman from Minnesota who claims her parents had to elope because her mother was Swedish and her father Norwegian.

  45. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "So, there was, in general, very little social detriment to being a tiny bit American Indian in the U.S. in the first half of the 20th Century. "

    Washington Redskins: Founded in 1932

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926

    Florida State Seminoles adopted that mascot in 1947 with the blessing of the Seminole tribe.

    In short, Warren is either a liar, daft, suffering from dementia, or a little of all three. She's got my vote.

    Don’t forget the US Army has been naming its helicopters after Indians since the 1940s.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    How could I forget the Chicago Blackhawks? One of the Original Six of the NHL, founded in 1926, named after the owner's Army unit from WWI.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Same for Piper Aircraft, iSF.

    Cherokee
    Dakota
    Comanche
    Apache
    Aztec
    Seminole
    Saratoga
    Seneca
    Navajo

    Maybe, to cut the budget just a tad to increase that available for reparations, Elizabeth Warren can get sell Ronnie's old 747-400 Air Force 1's and ride in a Piper Chieftain - 375 Hp per side, injected turbocharged Lycoming TSIO-540's. It's a kick in the ass, with seating for 8!
  46. @istevefan

    What’s more possible is that as somebody who started out as a Republican, not changing her registration to Democrat until 1996,
     
    She was a Republican? I'm surprised the other dems don't use that against her.

    The Sanders team does, and will ramp that criticism up when Warren overtakes Biden.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Ironically, since Warren has been a Democrat longer than Sanders.
  47. @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I've actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking.

    I don’t know if this was your intention, but Trump’s minister literally popularized the concept of positive thinking.

  48. @Sean
    Whether she is or not, Sarah Palin looks more than a little Amerindian to me. If Elizabeth Warren looked like Palin no one would say a word. Warren may be simply taking old family legends that grew over time as Gospel. Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.

    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike. She thinks that a no first use policy by America will make nuclear war less likely.

    https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/02/03/elizabeth-warren-nuclear-weapon-first-use-bill

    In reality, the knowledge that America would not make a first strike would enter into the other side's (or sides') calculations, about whether they should go to war conventionally, and/or when to try their own nuclear first strike (possibly out or the blue), in very unpredictable ways. Both sides would become more nervous.

    Moreover the US Strategic Missile forces would be surely relax the criteria for deciding an enemy first strike was underway and launching a retaliatory strike. Thus, a mistake by the US leading to it launching what they thought was retaliatory strike but was actually a first strike would become much more likely, if Warren got her way.

    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    • Replies: @Hail

    she was very attractive when she was young
     
    How attractive will her great-grandchildren be?

    Her three grandchildren, surnamed Tyagi, via Warren's daughter Amelia (b. 1971):

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8vBj3mVUAE7UpL.jpg

    Does her son Alex Warren (b. 1976) have children?

    [Elizabeth Warren said:] A few weeks after graduating from law school, my son Alex was born.
     
    Credit where it is due to mid-1970s Elizabeth Warren (b. 1949). While still in law school and during some of the lowest peacetime fertility years ever, got pregnant and did not abort. An Elizabeth Warren born thirty, forty years year, would not do this; would delay, delay, delay.

    The Boston Globe reported that Elizabeth Warren’s son, Alex Warren, is a “computer specialist.”
     
    , @Duke84
    I wonder why she dyed her hair blonde if she was pretending to be an Indian?
    , @Sean
    Yes, she just looked in the mirror

    https://youtu.be/oqewCzpfmqU?t=159


    Seriously, her brother does have a Robert Mitchum (quarter Amerindian) look about him, and she might have been mislead by that.

    , @randomerican
    Yep.

    To me she's always looked clearly like the girls who got tauntingly called "squaw" in high school.

    But blacks and conservative whites pay less attention to facial features and more to skin and hair color than the folks I grew up with.
    , @EdwardM
    In that first picture, she reminds me of the woman that Matthew Broderick had an affair with in Election, Delaney Driscoll, a distinctively unattractive look. Driscoll generously looks like a worse version of Margot Kidder.
  49. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    The magic of claiming Native American ancestry: As of 2011 Warren was Harvard's only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.

    This ancestry chicanery shows how well Warren fits into both Harvard and Massachusetts politics. Symbiotic relationships forged in Hades deepest depths.

    Warren was Harvard’s only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.

    And not even a particularly prestigious one.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @jon

    And not even a particularly prestigious one.
     
    I just looked it up - ranked 77th on USNews.com

    For comparison, here is the current Harvard Law faculty:

    https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/

    Good luck finding anyone else on there that is from a school ranked outside the top 10.
    , @ScarletNumber
    While their paths didn't cross, Ruth Bader Ginsberg was a professor at Rutgers Law before Warren was a student there.

    Also, Rutgers is the best law school in New Jersey.
  50. @Hail
    Here is a well-known case not yet mentioned in this thread:

    A certain young British aristocrat, then in his mid-20s, known as Lord Churchill, married an American woman, then age 20, in early 1874. They had met "at a sailing regatta on the Isle of Wight" the previous August.

    The bride was said to be part-American Indian.

    This was an early and well-known case of the "part-Indian great-grandmother" stories, now so cliche and as often as not disproved by 23andMe-like tests. Most Churchill experts seem to dismiss the claim as unlikely to be true.

    What were the Churchills' attitudes towards this ancestry claim? A Winston Churchill website describes the Churchill family's attitude on it thusly:


    Long before the age of political correctness, some Churchills delighted in extolling the legend of their Native American blood, believed to have been introduced through Jennie Jerome’s maternal grandmother, Clarissa Willcox.
     
    This is vague and unclear as to what era this attitude dates to. Maybe someone knows what PM Churchill, the one fond of drink and who could turn a phrase well, said on the matter himself.

    Note -- A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents' wedding day in 1874.

    Note — A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents’ wedding day in 1874.

    While the first baby may arrive at any time, subsequent ones always take nine months.

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.
     
    My brother was born about seven months after the wedding. He was obviously premature and only lived a day. (Might have survived today.) My mother said her labor was set off by a faulty clothes dryer she was leaning on. Don't you hate when that happens?

    https://media2.giphy.com/media/L0smgROngoMww/source.gif

    As for the Churchills, they married in Mormonism's birthplace, Palmyra, NY, the site of the only intersection in America with a church on all four corners. (None of them LDS.)


    https://m.facebook.com/VillageofPalmyraNY/photos/a.1135509019921323/1135508996587992/?type=3&source=44

  51. @Peter Akuleyev
    The Sanders team does, and will ramp that criticism up when Warren overtakes Biden.

    Ironically, since Warren has been a Democrat longer than Sanders.

  52. Once the Frontier was closed, in the late 19th century, and Indians stopped being a threat, the US was quite Indianphilic. I don’t think the one-drop rule ever legally applied to Native Americans.

    About Senator Warren, she looks an almost quintessential White American woman, it’s obvious (and this was even before her DNA test) there has never been a drop of non-European blood in her family.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Never say never.
    , @Louis Renault
    Now that the borders are reopening America is becoming more whitephobic.
  53. @Hail

    Anti-Indianism had largely died out by 1932 and been replaced by Indianphilia, but hatred of Indians was common in the 19th Century among Westerners who’d had to deal with them
     
    What is the turnover period for when Indian-nostalgism displaces anti-Indianism?

    I would propose the turnover occurred in the third quarter of the 19th century.

    General, cultural anti-Indianism proceeded to drop off very quickly in the fourth quarter of the century and became very weak indeed by the early 20th. Probably as anachronistic then as fear/hatred of the Communists and nuclear bomb shelters would be to us today. By the early 20th century, it seems unquestionable that Indian-nostalgism dominated.

    The beginning of the popularity of Indian-nostalgic western novels by the 1880s seems a clue here.

    It was regional. I think 1855’s Song of Hiawatha was the real start of Indian romanticism.

    It’s not very good IMO.

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19/19-h/19-h.htm

    • Replies: @reactionry
    And let us not forget that famous novel, written in 1826, which romanticized the passing of the '"noble red man" -
    *The Last of the Buzz Mohawks*.
    , @reactionry
    And let us not forget that famous novel, written in 1826, which romanticized the passing of the '"noble red man" -
    *The Last of the Buzz Mohawks*.
  54. @Lot
    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    https://elizabethforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2-EW-with-Amelia.jpg

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    https://www.thewomenseye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5A.jpg

    http://www.unitevoters.com/elizabethwarren.jpg

    she was very attractive when she was young

    How attractive will her great-grandchildren be?

    Her three grandchildren, surnamed Tyagi, via Warren’s daughter Amelia (b. 1971):

    Does her son Alex Warren (b. 1976) have children?

    [Elizabeth Warren said:] A few weeks after graduating from law school, my son Alex was born.

    Credit where it is due to mid-1970s Elizabeth Warren (b. 1949). While still in law school and during some of the lowest peacetime fertility years ever, got pregnant and did not abort. An Elizabeth Warren born thirty, forty years year, would not do this; would delay, delay, delay.

    The Boston Globe reported that Elizabeth Warren’s son, Alex Warren, is a “computer specialist.”

    • Replies: @Aft
    Branch?
    , @Aft
    1. Ughhh

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Amelia_Warren_Tyagi_%287482477900%29.jpg


    2. Definite grandparent cry (though with a daughter that ugly who can be surprised)

  55. @Andy
    Once the Frontier was closed, in the late 19th century, and Indians stopped being a threat, the US was quite Indianphilic. I don't think the one-drop rule ever legally applied to Native Americans.

    About Senator Warren, she looks an almost quintessential White American woman, it's obvious (and this was even before her DNA test) there has never been a drop of non-European blood in her family.

    Never say never.

  56. …because she was… part Delaware.

    Which part would that be? Assawoman Canal?

    Or perhaps one of the pene-exclaves hanging off the belly of New Jersey?

    Speaking of which, the Delaware Geological Survey is 80% white, 15% Asian, and 5% black. They need a geological survey that looks like Delaware!

  57. @Hail

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926
     

    And the Iroquois Theater opened in Chicago in 1903. (Famously closing later that year with the loss of many lives to fire.)

    [The Iroquois Theater was] one of the most opulent and modern theatres in the world. The magnificent theatre, built for over $1 million, was designed by architect Benjamin H. Marshall and was patterned after the famous Opera Comique in Paris.
     
    ($1,000,000 at the time was equivalent to the annual salaries of 2,250 median American salary earners [1900 census].)

    On Blacks vs. Indians.:

    Would anyone have named a major White-oriented theater with a name like the Zulu or the like? Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 -- imagine "The Nat Turner Theater"...!

    Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 — imagine “The Nat Turner Theater”…!

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22nat+turner+theater%22+&t=ffab&atb=v106-1&ia=web

    The Nat Turner Theater in New Orleans began publishing a literary magazine, Revolt!, in 1969.

    • Replies: @Hail

    The Nat Turner Theater in New Orleans began publishing a literary magazine, Revolt!, in 1969.
     
    Charming group:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFsMX4zU8AAAwSi.png

    As expected, there is no trace of a Nat Turner Theater on anything but the militant Black fringe. Meanwhile the Iroquois Theater was White and prestige. It was the Titanic of theaters, in at least two ways I can think of.
  58. She pulled a Ward Churchill.

  59. @International Jew

    Warren was Harvard’s only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.
     
    And not even a particularly prestigious one.

    And not even a particularly prestigious one.

    I just looked it up – ranked 77th on USNews.com

    For comparison, here is the current Harvard Law faculty:

    https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/

    Good luck finding anyone else on there that is from a school ranked outside the top 10.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    I looked at that same directory when the Fauxcahontas kerfuffle first reared its ugly head. Looking at monotonous listings of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Oxford, etc., I found it hard to believe that anyone with a functioning brainstem could think that she got the job for any reason other than that checked box.
  60. @bigdicknick
    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.

    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.

    Probably describes nearly everybody who runs for President.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  61. @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I've actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)

    I’m pretty jaded but if he were to form the TrumpStaffel tomorrow I’d still enlist.

  62. @syonredux
    I know a guy from OK who was born in 1930 and whose parents got married in the 1920s. According to him, his mother always liked to talk about how she was slightly Cherokee.

    My family on my father’s side is also from Oklahoma. My father was born in 1930. We had the same bullshit Cherokee story in my family, too. Complete with the great, great aunts with the high-cheekbones! I think every white person from Oklahoma thinks he’s part indian. It ain’t so. In my case a DNA test confirmed it was bullshit. But my father went to his grave thinking it was true.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    My father was the same way. Born in OK, he always talked about having Cherokee blood. So, a couple of years back, I bought him an Ancestry.Com test. The results: 100% European (Mostly British Isles and generic "Western European").
  63. @Hail
    Here is a well-known case not yet mentioned in this thread:

    A certain young British aristocrat, then in his mid-20s, known as Lord Churchill, married an American woman, then age 20, in early 1874. They had met "at a sailing regatta on the Isle of Wight" the previous August.

    The bride was said to be part-American Indian.

    This was an early and well-known case of the "part-Indian great-grandmother" stories, now so cliche and as often as not disproved by 23andMe-like tests. Most Churchill experts seem to dismiss the claim as unlikely to be true.

    What were the Churchills' attitudes towards this ancestry claim? A Winston Churchill website describes the Churchill family's attitude on it thusly:


    Long before the age of political correctness, some Churchills delighted in extolling the legend of their Native American blood, believed to have been introduced through Jennie Jerome’s maternal grandmother, Clarissa Willcox.
     
    This is vague and unclear as to what era this attitude dates to. Maybe someone knows what PM Churchill, the one fond of drink and who could turn a phrase well, said on the matter himself.

    Note -- A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents' wedding day in 1874.

    It’s my understanding Churchill’s father contracted syphilis at a young age. His school friends got him very drunk and hired a nasty whore to sleep with him. Despite immediately going to a doctor who applied a strong disinfectant, he contracted syphilis. (Which eventually led to a gradual mental decline.)

    Anyway, Churchill’s mother didn’t want to get infected and slept around quite a bit in British high society. I believe Churchill’s first military post was in the Sudan, a sexual favor won from a high ranking official. Maybe Churchill wasn’t a Churchill?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The paternal family name was actually Spencer. They acquired 'Churchill' as part of an inheritance.
  64. @jon

    Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 — imagine “The Nat Turner Theater”…!
     
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22nat+turner+theater%22+&t=ffab&atb=v106-1&ia=web

    The Nat Turner Theater in New Orleans began publishing a literary magazine, Revolt!, in 1969.
     

    The Nat Turner Theater in New Orleans began publishing a literary magazine, Revolt!, in 1969.

    Charming group:

    As expected, there is no trace of a Nat Turner Theater on anything but the militant Black fringe. Meanwhile the Iroquois Theater was White and prestige. It was the Titanic of theaters, in at least two ways I can think of.

  65. @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I've actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)

    I’m banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Like they say, when you can’t repay a $100,000 loan, you have a problem. When you can’t repay a $100,000,000 loan, the bank has a problem.

  66. @Malcolm X-Lax
    My family on my father's side is also from Oklahoma. My father was born in 1930. We had the same bullshit Cherokee story in my family, too. Complete with the great, great aunts with the high-cheekbones! I think every white person from Oklahoma thinks he's part indian. It ain't so. In my case a DNA test confirmed it was bullshit. But my father went to his grave thinking it was true.

    My father was the same way. Born in OK, he always talked about having Cherokee blood. So, a couple of years back, I bought him an Ancestry.Com test. The results: 100% European (Mostly British Isles and generic “Western European”).

  67. @Hail

    Boston Braves adopted that moniker in 1912

    Cleveland Indians adopted that moniker in 1915

    U of Illinois Champaign adopted Chief Illiniwek in 1926
     

    And the Iroquois Theater opened in Chicago in 1903. (Famously closing later that year with the loss of many lives to fire.)

    [The Iroquois Theater was] one of the most opulent and modern theatres in the world. The magnificent theatre, built for over $1 million, was designed by architect Benjamin H. Marshall and was patterned after the famous Opera Comique in Paris.
     
    ($1,000,000 at the time was equivalent to the annual salaries of 2,250 median American salary earners [1900 census].)

    On Blacks vs. Indians.:

    Would anyone have named a major White-oriented theater with a name like the Zulu or the like? Much less something closer to home and evocative of a past era like the name Iroquois would have been in 1903 -- imagine "The Nat Turner Theater"...!

    ($1,000,000 at the time was equivalent to the annual salaries of 2,250 median American salary earners [1900 census].)*

    The Duke of St. Albans once told an interviewer that an ancestor of his had lost about 50 million pounds in a foolish speculation in South African goldfields, adding after a pause, “That was a lot of money in those days.”

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/09/more-tiresome-demagoguery-about-candidates-income-and-property.html

    *Yes, that’s brackets inside parentheses inside blockquote.

  68. @Hypnotoad666
    The idea that Cherokee ancestry was shameful in the United States or Oklahoma in 1932, would seem to be completely debunked by the fact that the single most popular man in American at that time - Will Rogers - was a proud Cherokee citizen.

    Known as "Oklahoma's Favorite Son",[1] Rogers was born to a Cherokee family in Indian Territory (now part of Oklahoma). As an entertainer and humorist, he traveled around the world three times, made 71 films (50 silent films and 21 "talkies"),[2] and wrote more than 4,000 nationally syndicated newspaper columns.[3]

    By the mid-1930s Rogers was hugely popular in the United States, its leading political wit and the highest paid of Hollywood film stars. He died in 1935 with aviator Wiley Post when their small airplane crashed in northern Alaska.[4]
     
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers

    I know a half dozen people who are Indian enough to get enrolled and get the card and minor goodies but have no interest in doing so. None are particularly liberal or SJWish. Most voted for Trump.

  69. @International Jew

    Warren was Harvard’s only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.
     
    And not even a particularly prestigious one.

    While their paths didn’t cross, Ruth Bader Ginsberg was a professor at Rutgers Law before Warren was a student there.

    Also, Rutgers is the best law school in New Jersey.

  70. @Hail

    Anti-Indianism had largely died out by 1932 and been replaced by Indianphilia, but hatred of Indians was common in the 19th Century among Westerners who’d had to deal with them
     
    What is the turnover period for when Indian-nostalgism displaces anti-Indianism?

    I would propose the turnover occurred in the third quarter of the 19th century.

    General, cultural anti-Indianism proceeded to drop off very quickly in the fourth quarter of the century and became very weak indeed by the early 20th. Probably as anachronistic then as fear/hatred of the Communists and nuclear bomb shelters would be to us today. By the early 20th century, it seems unquestionable that Indian-nostalgism dominated.

    The beginning of the popularity of Indian-nostalgic western novels by the 1880s seems a clue here.

    ‘What is the turnover period for when Indian-nostalgism displaces anti-Indianism?

    I would propose the turnover occurred in the third quarter of the 19th century.’

    I’d say it’s more a function of distance than time. Indian-love was already becoming fashionable in the by-then virtually Indian-free East by the mid-nineteenth century. Conversely, I’ve the distinct impression Indians still aren’t indiscriminately adored by all in the intermountain West.

  71. @Lot
    It was regional. I think 1855’s Song of Hiawatha was the real start of Indian romanticism.

    It’s not very good IMO.

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19/19-h/19-h.htm

    And let us not forget that famous novel, written in 1826, which romanticized the passing of the ‘”noble red man” –
    *The Last of the Buzz Mohawks*.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Hail
    Further back still, we attribute the "Noble Savage" idea to the proto-left-winger Rousseau. That would be the mid-18th century.

    I presume Rousseau never looked a single, real Red Indian in the eye. They were as real to him as the characters in the 2010 movie Avatar are to people today.

    (Nothing noble about Rousseau's own practice of forcing his girlfriends to abandon the various babies he conceived. Abandoning his own children, to likely deaths, at foundling hospitals and orphanages, because he was just too busy with his philosophizing-writing career, just too important for something like supporting children.)

  72. @Lot
    It was regional. I think 1855’s Song of Hiawatha was the real start of Indian romanticism.

    It’s not very good IMO.

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19/19-h/19-h.htm

    And let us not forget that famous novel, written in 1826, which romanticized the passing of the ‘”noble red man” –
    *The Last of the Buzz Mohawks*.

  73. There is a little-remembered book that was phenomenally popular during the second half of WWII called “We Took to the Woods”, the story of a family who moved to rural Maine in the 30s, written by the mother.

    The father sometimes works as a guide, and due to a large nose and tanning easily, it is believed (and they do nothing to dispel the belief) that he’s at least part AmerInd. Far from being some sort of stigma, it increases his business as a guide.

    It’s anecdotal, sure, but the plural of anecdote is data…

  74. @reactionry
    And let us not forget that famous novel, written in 1826, which romanticized the passing of the '"noble red man" -
    *The Last of the Buzz Mohawks*.

    Further back still, we attribute the “Noble Savage” idea to the proto-left-winger Rousseau. That would be the mid-18th century.

    I presume Rousseau never looked a single, real Red Indian in the eye. They were as real to him as the characters in the 2010 movie Avatar are to people today.

    (Nothing noble about Rousseau’s own practice of forcing his girlfriends to abandon the various babies he conceived. Abandoning his own children, to likely deaths, at foundling hospitals and orphanages, because he was just too busy with his philosophizing-writing career, just too important for something like supporting children.)

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Hail:

    And to top it off, Rousseau was the founder of child-centered education theory.

    How droll!

  75. @Hail
    Further back still, we attribute the "Noble Savage" idea to the proto-left-winger Rousseau. That would be the mid-18th century.

    I presume Rousseau never looked a single, real Red Indian in the eye. They were as real to him as the characters in the 2010 movie Avatar are to people today.

    (Nothing noble about Rousseau's own practice of forcing his girlfriends to abandon the various babies he conceived. Abandoning his own children, to likely deaths, at foundling hospitals and orphanages, because he was just too busy with his philosophizing-writing career, just too important for something like supporting children.)

    Hail:

    And to top it off, Rousseau was the founder of child-centered education theory.

    How droll!

  76. During a town hall with the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) union in Madison Heights, Michigan, Warren said she will grant amnesty to all 12 to 22 million illegal aliens living in the country.

    “We need a pathway to citizenship for the people who are here and here to stay. They are our neighbors; they are our brothers and sisters. They are here. We need a path — not just for DREAMers — but also a path for grandmas, and for little kids, and for people who came here to work on farms, and for students who overstayed their visas. We need a path that is fair and achievable. Bring people out of the shadows. It is good for all workers…”

    Liz yesterday. More cheap labor is good for American workers. Not to mention grandmas and little kids!

    How on earth is it possible that Trump’s not making hay of this? I’ll humor myself and hope he’s saving it for the general, rather than just playing on Twitter.

    If only the union workers weren’t so brainwashed by teevee. And union ‘leaders’.

  77. @istevefan

    What’s more possible is that as somebody who started out as a Republican, not changing her registration to Democrat until 1996,
     
    She was a Republican? I'm surprised the other dems don't use that against her.

    And I’m surprised she changed her political outlook so much, when she was already in her forties. That’s surely quite rare.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Not if you teach at Harvard and live in Cambridge. It's mandatory.
    , @istevefan
    It is sort of like Arianna Huffington. She was a GOP pundit and then found out living in LA was rough if you weren't in the in crowd. By 2005, she had founded the Huffpo and the rest is history.
  78. @Kronos
    It’s my understanding Churchill’s father contracted syphilis at a young age. His school friends got him very drunk and hired a nasty whore to sleep with him. Despite immediately going to a doctor who applied a strong disinfectant, he contracted syphilis. (Which eventually led to a gradual mental decline.)

    Anyway, Churchill’s mother didn’t want to get infected and slept around quite a bit in British high society. I believe Churchill’s first military post was in the Sudan, a sexual favor won from a high ranking official. Maybe Churchill wasn’t a Churchill?

    The paternal family name was actually Spencer. They acquired ‘Churchill’ as part of an inheritance.

  79. @Lot
    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    https://elizabethforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2-EW-with-Amelia.jpg

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    https://www.thewomenseye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5A.jpg

    http://www.unitevoters.com/elizabethwarren.jpg

    I wonder why she dyed her hair blonde if she was pretending to be an Indian?

    • Replies: @James J OMeara
    4D chess. That's exactly what you'd think she wouldn't do if she were. Or something like that.
  80. @istevefan
    Don't forget the US Army has been naming its helicopters after Indians since the 1940s.

    How could I forget the Chicago Blackhawks? One of the Original Six of the NHL, founded in 1926, named after the owner’s Army unit from WWI.

  81. In Australia we don’t have “race” in the census (other than an aboriginality question), but rather “ancestry”. The question has only been there since the 1980s and it includes an option for “Australian”. The top 4 ancestries claimed are English 36.1%, Australian 33.5%, Irish 11% and Scottish 9.3%. More than one box can be selected. In earlier times “native” meant Australian-born white (there was a Friendly Society called the Australian Natives Association) and “Australian” meant aboriginal, but the meanings reversed as the twentieth century went on.

    • Replies: @Yngvar
    The joys of a immigrant nation. Here in social democratic, free economy Norway no census have been performed for decades. Everyone is for some peculiar reason enmeshed in some government database always, so THEY KNOW!

    I'm joking of course. Well, they do know, but you reminded me of the debate a couple of iSteve posts earlier, I was to late to it, but here is my argument: The war during the break-up of Yugoslavia was sectarian, everyone involved was an ethnic Slav. Just for the record.
  82. @Sean
    Whether she is or not, Sarah Palin looks more than a little Amerindian to me. If Elizabeth Warren looked like Palin no one would say a word. Warren may be simply taking old family legends that grew over time as Gospel. Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.

    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike. She thinks that a no first use policy by America will make nuclear war less likely.

    https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/02/03/elizabeth-warren-nuclear-weapon-first-use-bill

    In reality, the knowledge that America would not make a first strike would enter into the other side's (or sides') calculations, about whether they should go to war conventionally, and/or when to try their own nuclear first strike (possibly out or the blue), in very unpredictable ways. Both sides would become more nervous.

    Moreover the US Strategic Missile forces would be surely relax the criteria for deciding an enemy first strike was underway and launching a retaliatory strike. Thus, a mistake by the US leading to it launching what they thought was retaliatory strike but was actually a first strike would become much more likely, if Warren got her way.

    She is. Sarah is 1/16 Native and Todd is 1/8 Native. This makes their kids 3/32 Native.

  83. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    The magic of claiming Native American ancestry: As of 2011 Warren was Harvard's only tenured law professor who was the graduate of an American public university law school.

    This ancestry chicanery shows how well Warren fits into both Harvard and Massachusetts politics. Symbiotic relationships forged in Hades deepest depths.

    I think there are professors who went to U Michigan law school at harvard. No one went anywhere like Rutgers though. Except the squaw of course.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    bigdicknick:

    "the squaw" aka Liz Warren - the perfect appellation! Muchos Thankos!!
  84. @jon

    And not even a particularly prestigious one.
     
    I just looked it up - ranked 77th on USNews.com

    For comparison, here is the current Harvard Law faculty:

    https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/directory/

    Good luck finding anyone else on there that is from a school ranked outside the top 10.

    I looked at that same directory when the Fauxcahontas kerfuffle first reared its ugly head. Looking at monotonous listings of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Oxford, etc., I found it hard to believe that anyone with a functioning brainstem could think that she got the job for any reason other than that checked box.

    • Agree: Gordo
  85. @Anonymous
    When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. She's an idiot. She should be publicly asked to prove enrollable status or drop out of the race for lying.

    She’s already admitted she’s not a tribal member and apologized for implying it. She hasn’t apologized for basing her entire career on the lie, however, and she certainly hasn’t offered any sort of “reparations” for the undeserved benefits she received.

  86. C’mon, even biker gangs let in redskins.

  87. @International Jew
    And I'm surprised she changed her political outlook so much, when she was already in her forties. That's surely quite rare.

    Not if you teach at Harvard and live in Cambridge. It’s mandatory.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  88. @Andy
    Once the Frontier was closed, in the late 19th century, and Indians stopped being a threat, the US was quite Indianphilic. I don't think the one-drop rule ever legally applied to Native Americans.

    About Senator Warren, she looks an almost quintessential White American woman, it's obvious (and this was even before her DNA test) there has never been a drop of non-European blood in her family.

    Now that the borders are reopening America is becoming more whitephobic.

    • Replies: @Andy
    American Indians (that is Native Americans, not the Asian variety) should be at the forefront of the anti-immigration movement. If anybody in the world can be an American just by moving to the US, then the Indian connection to the land doesnt mean much. Their numbers as a percentage of the US population, already small, would fall even further. Their importance in American history would be even more diluted than it has been.
  89. Of course she was trolling. The problem is, federally, and in most states, claiming Indian heritage has to be supported by actual facts, at least to gain any benefit. You can go around all day claiming it to friends and co-workers, but if you actually put it on a form, it has to be proven, if asked (or in some cases, with some problems, provided at the time of submission).

    However, claiming the nebulous “Hispanic/Latino” category does not have to be proven, and most whites have Iberian heritage which DOES qualify (it is a myth you have to be of Latin American heritage to qualify as Hispanic). Arguably, black would be the same way, but no one wants to claim to be black, except for Shaun King.

    Warren is an opportunist who probably in her private life and moments is a right-of -center libertarian.

  90. @S. Anonyia
    I check the Hispanic box. It is such a vague category and as someone with probably 15-20 percent of my ancestors from France, including Cajuns, I’m sure there were at least a few Iberians in there at some point even if I cannot prove it. And I’m pretty sure legally Cajuns and Quebecois can count as Latinos, though perhaps not “hispanics.” Plus I look pretty Mediterranean anyway. I’m darker than Catherine Zeta Jones, for example, and she has played at least 2 Latina roles.

    Of course she was trolling. The problem is, federally, and in most states, claiming Indian heritage has to be supported by actual facts, at least to gain any benefit. You can go around all day claiming it to friends and co-workers, but if you actually put it on a form, it has to be proven, if asked (or in some cases, with some problems, provided at the time of submission).

    However, claiming the nebulous “Hispanic/Latino” category does not have to be proven, and most whites have Iberian heritage which DOES qualify (it is a myth you have to be of Latin American heritage to qualify as Hispanic). Arguably, black would be the same way, but no one wants to claim to be black, except for Shaun King.

    Warren is an opportunist who probably in her private life and moments is a right-of -center libertarian.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    OscarWildeLoveChild:

    Surprisingly, Tucker Carlson has respect for Warren in her earlier incarnation (specifically the book coauthored with her daughter questioning the two-income marriage trap)!
  91. @S. Anonyia
    I check the Hispanic box. It is such a vague category and as someone with probably 15-20 percent of my ancestors from France, including Cajuns, I’m sure there were at least a few Iberians in there at some point even if I cannot prove it. And I’m pretty sure legally Cajuns and Quebecois can count as Latinos, though perhaps not “hispanics.” Plus I look pretty Mediterranean anyway. I’m darker than Catherine Zeta Jones, for example, and she has played at least 2 Latina roles.

    There has been a discussion about whether or not Louisiana Creoles (of which I descend) can claim Latino, generally. I think the consensus is “yes”, now that it’s clear Brazilians do. I am from both the french and iberian creoles of Louisiana. Most Cajuns (by now) and certainly almost all Creoles, have Criollo heritage (Spain).

  92. Speaking of indianphobia among those who had to actually live among them, Melville’s Confidence Man has a chapter attacking “indian-killers,” apparently a recognized and lauded social role; modern commentators just love it, and spend lots of time on it. To be fair, Melville also has a chapter satirizing Thoreau and Emerson (“confidence men”, get it?) so he he seems to hate New England goodthinkers as well.

  93. @Daniel H
    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what's the worst that can happen?

    I’ve thought of doing this for quite some time. Though the fact is the last two Census forms ask if one is “American Indian”, not “Native American”. The closest it comes is the question about being “Alaskan Native”.

    My brother was born in Hawaii so I advise him to check off “Pacific Islander”, or “Native Hawaiian”.

  94. WE DEMAND WARREN ADOPTS NOLESS THAN 4 BLACK CHILDREN TO PROVE SHE ISNT RACIST

  95. @Buzz Mohawk
    I'm banking on a man who (correctly) convinced a boardroom full of bank presidents that they had no choice but to continue bankrolling him when he was clearly bankrupt.

    Plus the stock market likes him.

    He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.

    (Note: I've actually lost all faith in him and any other candidate. What I wrote above just sounds good, and I do want him to win again.)

    “He may not always deliver what he promises, but he seems to always win, with Jedi mind tricks and positive thinking. He is Think and Grow Rich personified.”

    Read all about Trump and positive thinking here:

  96. @Kronos
    I think the Democratic Party is trying to sell her to the hardcore female Hillary Clinton supporter.

    -She’s “younger” (by two years) but not young enough to sour female lefty boomers.

    -Cleaner and less corrupt. (Can anyone truly beat the Clintons?) The Indian thing is very tiny. Between her and Hillary, it’s comparing a little fly poop in a vat vs. a vat of poop.

    -More energetic and friendly in appearance.

    -Doesn’t have the fierce foes and betrayed/lethargic allies of the Clintons.

    -She was on Hillary’s Vice Presidential shortlist. So many believe there’s donor/voter compatibility.

    I was thinking, how much cognitive dissonance you have to have to support a ultra white woman who literally gamed the affirmative action system you even created–a giant middle finger to her own “base” (and all liberals and progressives everywhere), but then the thought came to me…how different is this from right-wingers and/or Christians supporting a guy with multiple marriages/divorces who apparently left his model wife and kid at home to go sleep with a porn star?

    So using Warren’s past sins against her, even as ironic as they are (gaming A/A) isn’t going to matter to her supporters any more than Trumps sins have with his.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Moralistic abstractions are often sacrificed on the political alter realpolitik.

    Recall how the election of Bill Clinton would “help” women. Now that was a face palm. But the feminist organizations received their federal money so it’s almost a moot point.
  97. @Duke84
    I wonder why she dyed her hair blonde if she was pretending to be an Indian?

    4D chess. That’s exactly what you’d think she wouldn’t do if she were. Or something like that.

  98. @istevefan
    Don't forget the US Army has been naming its helicopters after Indians since the 1940s.

    Same for Piper Aircraft, iSF.

    Cherokee
    Dakota
    Comanche
    Apache
    Aztec
    Seminole
    Saratoga
    Seneca
    Navajo

    Maybe, to cut the budget just a tad to increase that available for reparations, Elizabeth Warren can get sell Ronnie’s old 747-400 Air Force 1’s and ride in a Piper Chieftain – 375 Hp per side, injected turbocharged Lycoming TSIO-540’s. It’s a kick in the ass, with seating for 8!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Ahh, missed a good one:

    "with seating for the whole tribe!"
    , @Anonymous
    The Lycoming belongs in a museum with Gnome-Rhône rotary radials, the OXX-6 Curtiss and the three cylinder Szekely that had an AD requiring the heads to be tied together with cables so if it threw a cylinder off it wouldn’t land on the ground and hit someone.
    , @istevefan
    I forgot to mention US Civil War General William Tecumseh Sherman.

    Sherman reported that his middle name came from his father having "caught a fancy for the great chief of the Shawnees, 'Tecumseh'
     
  99. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1177068312754147329

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1177073313992126466

  100. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Only slightly off topic - watching the mini series Chernobyl, and the creators of the show decided to insert a fictional female nuclear physicist Mary Sue into the story, played by Emma Watson, who's sole purpose is to use magic to immediately deduce from her office that a reactor core at Chernobyl had exploded 300 miles away, before arriving at the scene just in time to save those dumb white males from bollocking up the disaster with their dick wagging and man-spreading/splaining.

    For my own part, as soon as they introduced her character, I know directly that she was made up. /takes bow
    Fortunately, I have been told not to worry about that little bit of outright falsehood in a show that is supposed to be portraying a real event.

    https://www.bustle.com/p/ulana-khomyuk-from-chernobyl-is-not-based-on-a-real-person-but-emily-watsons-character-is-important-all-the-same-17304139

    Never let something as petty as the worst environmental disaster in history get in the way of falsely empowering females.

    Emma Watson was one of the loudest “celebrity voices” supporting the Jussie Smollett hoax. She ramped up the drama online and on national television several times. Hasn’t walked a single word of it back.

  101. Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.
     
    Hopalong. I would share your sentiments if the question was just "live under", as an abstract model. Yes, four or eight years of Warren would be more tolerable than the same under Harris.

    However, we're living in this history. For anything remotely akin to America to survive we need to wake up white people ... now! If i had to pick a Democrat to win who would help do this and actually change some political orientations--Harris. Repellant, woke, hectoring. She's a woke version of Hillary in brown face. Having her do a turn as President would get a lot of white people thinking about their future, their kids' future. (And if it did not, then it's moot--we are lost.)
    , @Aft
    Suffice it to say she'd import a few million Indians per year. (And I don't mean the kind Liz Warren kind)
    , @Aft
    Does Kamala have a drop of European blood in her?

    Obama had at least 50% and was a slacker affirmative action admit who just wanted some easy money that he coasted into by going easy on Wall Street and big business. Kamala may be more inclined to do something like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    to clear room for this:
    https://cdn.expresshealthcare.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/11172951/GettyImages-986704314-e1554984013365.jpg

  102. @Inquiring Mind
    People, you've got the wrong "take" on Ms. Warren's TV commerical.

    C'mon, think, maybe you aren't old enough, but where have you seen this level of TV reasoning before. You know, the sense of grievance. The sense of mistreatment by the political opposition. The sense that the charges against you raised by your opponent(s) are ridiculous.

    Would the argument go something like "It was a little cocker spaniel dog in a crate that he'd sent all the way from Texas. Black and white spotted. And our little girl—Tricia, the 6-year-old—named it Checkers. And you know, the kids, like all kids, love the dog and I just want to say this right now, that regardless of what they say about it, we're gonna keep it."

    "My parents had to elope." "I can't give back the gift from the donor -- it was a black and white spotted Cocker Spaniel dog, and how can you, in the name of humanity, take this pet away from a little girl?"

    Liz Warren as Dick Nixon -- am I the only one seeing this?

    “Checkers, now more than evah!”

  103. @Achmed E. Newman
    Same for Piper Aircraft, iSF.

    Cherokee
    Dakota
    Comanche
    Apache
    Aztec
    Seminole
    Saratoga
    Seneca
    Navajo

    Maybe, to cut the budget just a tad to increase that available for reparations, Elizabeth Warren can get sell Ronnie's old 747-400 Air Force 1's and ride in a Piper Chieftain - 375 Hp per side, injected turbocharged Lycoming TSIO-540's. It's a kick in the ass, with seating for 8!

    Ahh, missed a good one:

    “with seating for the whole tribe!”

  104. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    Yeah, check that “Native American” box:

    White Americans are “Native Americans”.

    That’s why they call us “Nativists”.

    My real race/ethnicity is

    Mostly Nordic ~ 15% Slavic

    My Slavic blood has given me immunization from all forms of bad Liberalism or worse Libertarianism.

    Virtually all White Slavic people alive on planet earth have sensible racial views, sensible views about Islam and are at least aware of the JQ.

    Can’t say the same about the Elizabeth Warrens George Bush WASP elites.

    Who do you want running your police force or the Governors mansion when BlackLiesMatter have been making loud noises about doing a Rodney King Black Race Riot:

    George Bush WASPs?
    George Romney/Mitt Romney LDS Anglos?
    Elizabeth Warren?
    Some Jewish guy like Rahm Emannuel, Charles Schumer, Abe Beame, Roza Luxumburg, Abbie Hoffman?
    Or some tough Italian guy like Rudy Guliani, Frank Rizzo or some tough Slavic guy like Vladimir Putin or Victor Orban?

    And no White Hispanic from Spain, Chile or Argentina fought on the wrong side in World War II, or bombed civilian areas of Hamburg and Dresden

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    or some tough Slavic guy like Vladimir Putin or Victor Orban?
     
    Hungarians are not Slavs. They are Magyars, a Finno-Ugric tribe distantly related, by language at the very least, to Finns, Estonians, and Lapps.


    Hungarian Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

    Probable ancestors of Hungarian ethnic groups: an admixture analysis.


    http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/FinExpNewEng.jpg

    In other words, Huns:


    Genetic study proves that Hungarians are the descendants of the Huns

    Of course, that doesn't weaken your basic point, it strengthens it!

  105. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @S. Anonyia
    I check the Hispanic box. It is such a vague category and as someone with probably 15-20 percent of my ancestors from France, including Cajuns, I’m sure there were at least a few Iberians in there at some point even if I cannot prove it. And I’m pretty sure legally Cajuns and Quebecois can count as Latinos, though perhaps not “hispanics.” Plus I look pretty Mediterranean anyway. I’m darker than Catherine Zeta Jones, for example, and she has played at least 2 Latina roles.

    Good for you man.

    I’m going for a Spanish immersion course in Chile this winter (their summer), I m also shopping around for a Hispanic 2nd wife.

    Any future children I have will be half Hispanic – White Hispanic.

    They’re going to check that “hispanic box”.

    Plus Harvard and Yale Whites have to be at least 50% Jewish.

  106. She is 50% qualified already: she is a proven liar (her amerindinan ancestry). She just needs to show that she is a thief to prove that she is a perfect presidential material. Still, Biden is ahead of her: a proven liar and a proven thief.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Haha, yes, and also, how good are her plagiarization skills? Chief Warren needs to up her game.
  107. @ScarletNumber

    Note — A complication to the above wedding story is that future Prime Minister Winston Churchill was born seven months after the parents’ wedding day in 1874.
     
    While the first baby may arrive at any time, subsequent ones always take nine months.

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.

    My brother was born about seven months after the wedding. He was obviously premature and only lived a day. (Might have survived today.) My mother said her labor was set off by a faulty clothes dryer she was leaning on. Don’t you hate when that happens?


    As for the Churchills, they married in Mormonism’s birthplace, Palmyra, NY, the site of the only intersection in America with a church on all four corners. (None of them LDS.)

    https://m.facebook.com/VillageofPalmyraNY/photos/a.1135509019921323/1135508996587992/?type=3&source=44

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Correction: it was the Jeromes, Churchill's maternal grandparents, who married in Palmyra.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jerome
    , @adreadline
    Oswald Spengler's brother was said to have been born prematurely, at eight months, while his mother was doing laundry and tried lifting more weight than she could. He died soon after.
  108. @Hail

    she was very attractive when she was young
     
    How attractive will her great-grandchildren be?

    Her three grandchildren, surnamed Tyagi, via Warren's daughter Amelia (b. 1971):

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8vBj3mVUAE7UpL.jpg

    Does her son Alex Warren (b. 1976) have children?

    [Elizabeth Warren said:] A few weeks after graduating from law school, my son Alex was born.
     
    Credit where it is due to mid-1970s Elizabeth Warren (b. 1949). While still in law school and during some of the lowest peacetime fertility years ever, got pregnant and did not abort. An Elizabeth Warren born thirty, forty years year, would not do this; would delay, delay, delay.

    The Boston Globe reported that Elizabeth Warren’s son, Alex Warren, is a “computer specialist.”
     

    Branch?

  109. @Hail

    she was very attractive when she was young
     
    How attractive will her great-grandchildren be?

    Her three grandchildren, surnamed Tyagi, via Warren's daughter Amelia (b. 1971):

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8vBj3mVUAE7UpL.jpg

    Does her son Alex Warren (b. 1976) have children?

    [Elizabeth Warren said:] A few weeks after graduating from law school, my son Alex was born.
     
    Credit where it is due to mid-1970s Elizabeth Warren (b. 1949). While still in law school and during some of the lowest peacetime fertility years ever, got pregnant and did not abort. An Elizabeth Warren born thirty, forty years year, would not do this; would delay, delay, delay.

    The Boston Globe reported that Elizabeth Warren’s son, Alex Warren, is a “computer specialist.”
     

    1. Ughhh

    2. Definite grandparent cry (though with a daughter that ugly who can be surprised)

  110. @Daniel H
    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what's the worst that can happen?

    I think it would be a fine thing for everyone to check the African American box. 1) We are all ultimately out of Africa, they say. 2) Race is a social construct anyway, they also say. 3) When the reparations checks start going out, we can all get in line!

  111. The notion that Warren was “trolling” anything (such as Affirmative Action) is nonsensical. That is a theory to justify Warren’s opportunistic lies but based on zero facts. Similar to the ‘argument’ of a thief that “I only stole because the shop owner was charging everyone too much.”

    And all of the claims she’s made about family history of “Indian heritage” are unproveable, hence very handy. She didn’t start claiming that until she could also claim (and did claim) advantages over otherwise “white” people looking for the same admissions/jobs. “Grandma said she was part of the Russian royal family.”

    While college age males might spoof the numerous race boxes to check on some survey or form, you wouldn’t see some lawyer do that just for grins. I have seen no evidence that Warren ever objected to legal racial discrimination (i.e. affirmative action) in any writings or other behavior.

    She is just a cold blooded liar and opportunist, who was never challenged over her blatant “cultural appropriation” to gain advantage over others just exactly like her. A race hustler who was merely a white woman kicking others down the ladder. Don’t make excuses for her.

  112. @Laurence Whelk

    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here...
     
    I was in the US Army for 27 years and, after the first few years of hard-partying, heavy-drinking, fast f**king, apolitical youth, I started checking "Native American" on every form and survey for the next quarter century. As a native born white man-child of third generation Americans - what else am I?

    As a native born white man-child of third generation Americans – what else am I?

    Only three generations? You are an immigrant.

  113. @bigdicknick
    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.

    this woman is a pathological liar with a thirst for power. She is likely a sociopath.

    I’m not trying to be snide, but I’m pretty sure the definition of “sociopath” is a lot more specific than merely being willing to lie in order to reap personal benefit.

  114. @Cloudbuster
    OT: Just watched the Netflix movie In the Shadow of the Moon. It's a sci-fi love letter to cancel culture. Quite literally memory-holing the past, erasing people who thought bad thoughts, because "some thoughts should never be thought."

    Once I figured out what the message was I quit watching. But it’s ok to kill people you disagree with now is the message. Not just those people but anyone who influences them.

  115. @Hail

    Anti-Indianism had largely died out by 1932 and been replaced by Indianphilia, but hatred of Indians was common in the 19th Century among Westerners who’d had to deal with them
     
    What is the turnover period for when Indian-nostalgism displaces anti-Indianism?

    I would propose the turnover occurred in the third quarter of the 19th century.

    General, cultural anti-Indianism proceeded to drop off very quickly in the fourth quarter of the century and became very weak indeed by the early 20th. Probably as anachronistic then as fear/hatred of the Communists and nuclear bomb shelters would be to us today. By the early 20th century, it seems unquestionable that Indian-nostalgism dominated.

    The beginning of the popularity of Indian-nostalgic western novels by the 1880s seems a clue here.

    Depends upon where you were. In the West, there was more antagonism until recently, in the East much rosier view.

  116. @OscarWildeLoveChild
    Of course she was trolling. The problem is, federally, and in most states, claiming Indian heritage has to be supported by actual facts, at least to gain any benefit. You can go around all day claiming it to friends and co-workers, but if you actually put it on a form, it has to be proven, if asked (or in some cases, with some problems, provided at the time of submission).

    However, claiming the nebulous "Hispanic/Latino" category does not have to be proven, and most whites have Iberian heritage which DOES qualify (it is a myth you have to be of Latin American heritage to qualify as Hispanic). Arguably, black would be the same way, but no one wants to claim to be black, except for Shaun King.

    Warren is an opportunist who probably in her private life and moments is a right-of -center libertarian.

    OscarWildeLoveChild:

    Surprisingly, Tucker Carlson has respect for Warren in her earlier incarnation (specifically the book coauthored with her daughter questioning the two-income marriage trap)!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    She deserves respect for that too, Dan. She obviously is nothing but an opportunist, as others have written, as she put all that behind her to go full-out feminist along with all the rest of her current stupidity. I bet she's hoping none of the other Blue Squad candidates get hold of that book ... and someone who can read it to them.
  117. from wiki:

    Warren has described her family as teetering “on the ragged edge of the middle class” and “kind of hanging on at the edges by our fingernails”

    Her family had a very nice car when she was little. That’s a ’53 Lincoln in this picture (taken about 1955 or 6, judging from Elizabeth’s approximate age at the time.) House not that great, but the house we lived in when I was born (1958) wasn’t much bigger, and there were five kids in our family. My dad was an electrical engineer and drove a dull and dented old ’47 Hudson until about the time I was born.

    • Replies: @J1234
    Photo probably from a couple of years after that, actually. Her dad is much grayer in this photo than one definitely taken in '55, and color snapshots not common in '56.
  118. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.

    Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.

    Hopalong. I would share your sentiments if the question was just “live under”, as an abstract model. Yes, four or eight years of Warren would be more tolerable than the same under Harris.

    However, we’re living in this history. For anything remotely akin to America to survive we need to wake up white people … now! If i had to pick a Democrat to win who would help do this and actually change some political orientations–Harris. Repellant, woke, hectoring. She’s a woke version of Hillary in brown face. Having her do a turn as President would get a lot of white people thinking about their future, their kids’ future. (And if it did not, then it’s moot–we are lost.)

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    However, we’re living in this history. For anything remotely akin to America to survive we need to wake up white people … now! If i had to pick a Democrat to win who would help do this and actually change some political orientations–Harris. Repellant, woke, hectoring. She’s a woke version of Hillary in brown face. Having her do a turn as President would get a lot of white people thinking about their future, their kids’ future. (And if it did not, then it’s moot–we are lost.)

     

    Thank you for expressing and describing the current cultural and political circumstances with the sense of urgency it deserves. White Core America is being demographically swamped in a White Genocide and some White people are oblivious to it.

    Kamala Harris Is Accelerationism.

    Impeachment Is Accelerationism.

    Asset Bubbles Imploding Is Accelerationism.

    White Core America is in a survival situation and some greedy dolts are worried about losing their ill-gotten gains from the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate.
  119. @OscarWildeLoveChild
    I was thinking, how much cognitive dissonance you have to have to support a ultra white woman who literally gamed the affirmative action system you even created--a giant middle finger to her own "base" (and all liberals and progressives everywhere), but then the thought came to me...how different is this from right-wingers and/or Christians supporting a guy with multiple marriages/divorces who apparently left his model wife and kid at home to go sleep with a porn star?

    So using Warren's past sins against her, even as ironic as they are (gaming A/A) isn't going to matter to her supporters any more than Trumps sins have with his.

    Moralistic abstractions are often sacrificed on the political alter realpolitik.

    Recall how the election of Bill Clinton would “help” women. Now that was a face palm. But the feminist organizations received their federal money so it’s almost a moot point.

  120. @Sean
    Whether she is or not, Sarah Palin looks more than a little Amerindian to me. If Elizabeth Warren looked like Palin no one would say a word. Warren may be simply taking old family legends that grew over time as Gospel. Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.

    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike. She thinks that a no first use policy by America will make nuclear war less likely.

    https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/02/03/elizabeth-warren-nuclear-weapon-first-use-bill

    In reality, the knowledge that America would not make a first strike would enter into the other side's (or sides') calculations, about whether they should go to war conventionally, and/or when to try their own nuclear first strike (possibly out or the blue), in very unpredictable ways. Both sides would become more nervous.

    Moreover the US Strategic Missile forces would be surely relax the criteria for deciding an enemy first strike was underway and launching a retaliatory strike. Thus, a mistake by the US leading to it launching what they thought was retaliatory strike but was actually a first strike would become much more likely, if Warren got her way.

    Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.

    Heather Locklear looks even less likely to be an Indian princess, but she not only has Lumbee ancestry, she has a Lumbee surname:

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/locklear.html

    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike.

    This shows the deeper idiocy of treating nukes differently from other weaponry. A simple pledge not to use them on civilians should suffice. That way, you could keep first-strike capability, while leaving the first-war-crime option to the other side.

    Hey, wait a minute– wouldn’t a nuclear winter counteract global warming? Let’s start dropping

    • Replies: @Sean
    PBS says Lumbee are a tri racial isolate so it is a hardly surprising if there are people with even all Lumbee ancestry who look European, (or Amerindian, or African American). Locklear never misused her identity to get benefits intended for people in greater need.

    A simple pledge not to use them on civilians should suffice. That way, you could keep first-strike capability, while leaving the first-war-crime option to the other side.
     
    But that would enter into the calculations of the other side's civilian population and make them more likely to support a politician who might make a first strike, as the retaliation would leave them untouched. Nuclear weapons like Britain's Trident have no military purpose, war cannot be fought with them, they are only there to deter by the knowledge that once nuclear weapons were used the conventional phase would halt. Escalation ending in a full exchange is the real deterrent and for that weapons are needed that will slaughter guilty or innocent men, women, and children in their millions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/26/secret-files-70s-trident-russians
    The British government opted for the Trident nuclear weapons system because it estimated it could kill up to 10 million Russians and inflict "unacceptable damage" on the former Soviet Union, according to secret Whitehall documents written in the 1970s.
     
  121. William Jefferson Blythe III goes by “Bill Clinton.”

  122. I don’t know what the law in OK was but, despite a rather insignificant exception for people “≤1/16 Indian” the laws in Virginia, for instance, were pretty clear about the “one drop” thing, you stupid boomer.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Integrity_Act_of_1924

  123. US Senator Elizabeth Warren voted for the Rubio/Obama Mass Legal Immigration Surge — Illegal Alien Amnesty bill(S 744) of June of 2013.

    Elizabeth Warren’s immigration bill(S 744) would have doubled or tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders.

    Elizabeth Warren pushes mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration.

    Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration lowers wages, replaces US workers, increases income inequality, harms workers, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals, harms the environment, brings infectious diseases to the USA, causes urban and suburban sprawl, destroys habitat for wildlife, brings crime and Islamic terrorism to the USA and hinders AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION for young people in the USA.

    Tweets from 2014 and 2015:

  124. @AnotherDad

    Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.
     
    Hopalong. I would share your sentiments if the question was just "live under", as an abstract model. Yes, four or eight years of Warren would be more tolerable than the same under Harris.

    However, we're living in this history. For anything remotely akin to America to survive we need to wake up white people ... now! If i had to pick a Democrat to win who would help do this and actually change some political orientations--Harris. Repellant, woke, hectoring. She's a woke version of Hillary in brown face. Having her do a turn as President would get a lot of white people thinking about their future, their kids' future. (And if it did not, then it's moot--we are lost.)

    However, we’re living in this history. For anything remotely akin to America to survive we need to wake up white people … now! If i had to pick a Democrat to win who would help do this and actually change some political orientations–Harris. Repellant, woke, hectoring. She’s a woke version of Hillary in brown face. Having her do a turn as President would get a lot of white people thinking about their future, their kids’ future. (And if it did not, then it’s moot–we are lost.)

    Thank you for expressing and describing the current cultural and political circumstances with the sense of urgency it deserves. White Core America is being demographically swamped in a White Genocide and some White people are oblivious to it.

    Kamala Harris Is Accelerationism.

    Impeachment Is Accelerationism.

    Asset Bubbles Imploding Is Accelerationism.

    White Core America is in a survival situation and some greedy dolts are worried about losing their ill-gotten gains from the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate.

  125. @Chris Mallory
    If I see "Native American" on the form, I do check it. My ancestors were here before 1776 and helped found the United States of America. I am a 7th generation Native American, if you go back to the direct male ancestor who fought in the 3rd Virginia and crossed the Delaware to kill Germans in their sleep. 11th Generation if you go back to my first direct male ancestor to live on these shores.

    Indians are what ever tribe they claim to belong to.

    But I have not seen "Native American" on a government form in over 20 years. The last time was a form the city of Lexington, Kentucky had printed. All the Federal forms I have filled out recently have had a box for "American Indian, Alaskan Native".

    New comer! My ancestors landed with Hanno the Navigator of Carthage.

  126. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.

    Suffice it to say she’d import a few million Indians per year. (And I don’t mean the kind Liz Warren kind)

  127. @Lot
    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    https://elizabethforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2-EW-with-Amelia.jpg

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    https://www.thewomenseye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5A.jpg

    http://www.unitevoters.com/elizabethwarren.jpg

    Yes, she just looked in the mirror

    Seriously, her brother does have a Robert Mitchum (quarter Amerindian) look about him, and she might have been mislead by that.

  128. @Hapalong Cassidy
    Trump seems to be frightened of Warren, which is probably the reason he hammered her on the Indian thing. I do think that if it is a Dem who wins in 2020, I would prefer that it be Warren. Her background as a Republican gives me hope (albeit slim) that she will be somewhat moderate once she is elected. The candidate that scares me the most is Kamala Harris. Not because she has a better chance to win, but because of what she might do if she is elected. She is the worst in every possible way; Socially liberal (of the “woke” variety) pro-Crony Capitalist, anti-individual liberty, authoritarian, and likely racist.

    Does Kamala have a drop of European blood in her?

    Obama had at least 50% and was a slacker affirmative action admit who just wanted some easy money that he coasted into by going easy on Wall Street and big business. Kamala may be more inclined to do something like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    to clear room for this:

  129. US Senator Elizabeth Warren voted for the 2013 anti-worker immigration bill(S 744) pushed by Lindsey Graham and Barack Obama and Marco Rubio and Charles Schumer.

    The immigration bill(S 744) that Elizabeth Warren voted for would have doubled or tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders.

    Mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration lowers wages, increases income inequality, replaces American workers, increases housing costs, swamps schools, overwhelms hospitals and harms the environment.

  130. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    Americans have always had some fascination with Native Americans and Native American culture. I met a guy from an old Virginia plantation family who told me that going back through his genealogy you’d find dozens of people with names of the form “*stereotypical Anglo first name* Pocahontas *stereotypical Anglo last name*.” Apparently his family was not alone in this either. From Wikipedia

    The Racial Integrity Act was subject to the Pocahontas Clause (or Pocahontas Exception), which allowed people with claims of less than 1/16th American Indian ancestry to still be considered white, despite the otherwise unyielding climate of one-drop rule politics.[8][9] The exception regarding Native blood quantum was included as an amendment to the original Act in response to concerns of Virginia elites, including many of the First Families of Virginia, who had always claimed descent from Pocahontas with pride, but now worried that the new legislation would jeopardize their status.

    And of course every shit-kicker from Texas claims to be 1/16th Apache, etc.

    As far as Warren, my guess is that her second husband planted the seed: “Hey, your grandmother said you were 1/8th Indian right? You should check the box.” That explains how she went from being a Rutgers grad without a clerkship or law review or really any substantive experience to a professor; she stopped identifying as “white” and started checking the right box (we know that she was already checking the box by the time she took the bar). Warren doesn’t strike me as the scheming or duplicitous type; she’s just a goofy Midwesterner.

  131. @Reg Cæsar

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.
     
    My brother was born about seven months after the wedding. He was obviously premature and only lived a day. (Might have survived today.) My mother said her labor was set off by a faulty clothes dryer she was leaning on. Don't you hate when that happens?

    https://media2.giphy.com/media/L0smgROngoMww/source.gif

    As for the Churchills, they married in Mormonism's birthplace, Palmyra, NY, the site of the only intersection in America with a church on all four corners. (None of them LDS.)


    https://m.facebook.com/VillageofPalmyraNY/photos/a.1135509019921323/1135508996587992/?type=3&source=44

    Correction: it was the Jeromes, Churchill’s maternal grandparents, who married in Palmyra.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jerome

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Were the Jerome's Jewish?
  132. @Anonymous
    Yeah, check that "Native American" box:

    White Americans are "Native Americans".

    That's why they call us "Nativists".

    My real race/ethnicity is

    Mostly Nordic ~ 15% Slavic

    My Slavic blood has given me immunization from all forms of bad Liberalism or worse Libertarianism.

    Virtually all White Slavic people alive on planet earth have sensible racial views, sensible views about Islam and are at least aware of the JQ.

    Can't say the same about the Elizabeth Warrens George Bush WASP elites.

    Who do you want running your police force or the Governors mansion when BlackLiesMatter have been making loud noises about doing a Rodney King Black Race Riot:

    George Bush WASPs?
    George Romney/Mitt Romney LDS Anglos?
    Elizabeth Warren?
    Some Jewish guy like Rahm Emannuel, Charles Schumer, Abe Beame, Roza Luxumburg, Abbie Hoffman?
    Or some tough Italian guy like Rudy Guliani, Frank Rizzo or some tough Slavic guy like Vladimir Putin or Victor Orban?

    And no White Hispanic from Spain, Chile or Argentina fought on the wrong side in World War II, or bombed civilian areas of Hamburg and Dresden

    or some tough Slavic guy like Vladimir Putin or Victor Orban?

    Hungarians are not Slavs. They are Magyars, a Finno-Ugric tribe distantly related, by language at the very least, to Finns, Estonians, and Lapps.

    Hungarian Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

    Probable ancestors of Hungarian ethnic groups: an admixture analysis.

    In other words, Huns:

    Genetic study proves that Hungarians are the descendants of the Huns

    Of course, that doesn’t weaken your basic point, it strengthens it!

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    Barbara Palvin is Hungarian.

    https://twitter.com/SI_Swimsuit/status/1123270864596811782?s=20
    , @Charles Pewitt
    Barbara "The Hun" Palvin did a good job of invading Curacao in 2017.

    Barbara Palvin is a devastating barbarian Hun. How do New Englanders steer a boat? Attila!

    Barbara Palvin https://www.si.com/swimsuit/model/barbara-palvin/2017/photos#13 via @SI_Swimsuit
  133. @Reg Cæsar

    Her appearance shows nothing that could be a visible trace of Amerindian ancestry substantial enough that people would think entitled her to benefits intended to help those people.
     
    Heather Locklear looks even less likely to be an Indian princess, but she not only has Lumbee ancestry, she has a Lumbee surname:

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/locklear.html


    She is too formalistically minded, as with the infinitely dangerous incomprehension evident in her attempt to make a law that America cannot carry out a nuclear first strike.
     
    This shows the deeper idiocy of treating nukes differently from other weaponry. A simple pledge not to use them on civilians should suffice. That way, you could keep first-strike capability, while leaving the first-war-crime option to the other side.

    Hey, wait a minute-- wouldn't a nuclear winter counteract global warming? Let's start dropping

    PBS says Lumbee are a tri racial isolate so it is a hardly surprising if there are people with even all Lumbee ancestry who look European, (or Amerindian, or African American). Locklear never misused her identity to get benefits intended for people in greater need.

    A simple pledge not to use them on civilians should suffice. That way, you could keep first-strike capability, while leaving the first-war-crime option to the other side.

    But that would enter into the calculations of the other side’s civilian population and make them more likely to support a politician who might make a first strike, as the retaliation would leave them untouched. Nuclear weapons like Britain’s Trident have no military purpose, war cannot be fought with them, they are only there to deter by the knowledge that once nuclear weapons were used the conventional phase would halt. Escalation ending in a full exchange is the real deterrent and for that weapons are needed that will slaughter guilty or innocent men, women, and children in their millions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/26/secret-files-70s-trident-russians
    The British government opted for the Trident nuclear weapons system because it estimated it could kill up to 10 million Russians and inflict “unacceptable damage” on the former Soviet Union, according to secret Whitehall documents written in the 1970s.

  134. @Reg Cæsar

    or some tough Slavic guy like Vladimir Putin or Victor Orban?
     
    Hungarians are not Slavs. They are Magyars, a Finno-Ugric tribe distantly related, by language at the very least, to Finns, Estonians, and Lapps.


    Hungarian Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

    Probable ancestors of Hungarian ethnic groups: an admixture analysis.


    http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/FinExpNewEng.jpg

    In other words, Huns:


    Genetic study proves that Hungarians are the descendants of the Huns

    Of course, that doesn't weaken your basic point, it strengthens it!

    Barbara Palvin is Hungarian.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    My heart is palvitating.
  135. @Achmed E. Newman
    Same for Piper Aircraft, iSF.

    Cherokee
    Dakota
    Comanche
    Apache
    Aztec
    Seminole
    Saratoga
    Seneca
    Navajo

    Maybe, to cut the budget just a tad to increase that available for reparations, Elizabeth Warren can get sell Ronnie's old 747-400 Air Force 1's and ride in a Piper Chieftain - 375 Hp per side, injected turbocharged Lycoming TSIO-540's. It's a kick in the ass, with seating for 8!

    The Lycoming belongs in a museum with Gnome-Rhône rotary radials, the OXX-6 Curtiss and the three cylinder Szekely that had an AD requiring the heads to be tied together with cables so if it threw a cylinder off it wouldn’t land on the ground and hit someone.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    That's funny on the Szekely, #190, but you do sound like a guy who's never put in that last inch of throttle on those TSIO-540's.
  136. @Reg Cæsar

    or some tough Slavic guy like Vladimir Putin or Victor Orban?
     
    Hungarians are not Slavs. They are Magyars, a Finno-Ugric tribe distantly related, by language at the very least, to Finns, Estonians, and Lapps.


    Hungarian Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries

    Probable ancestors of Hungarian ethnic groups: an admixture analysis.


    http://alterling2.narod.ru/English/Maps/FinExpNewEng.jpg

    In other words, Huns:


    Genetic study proves that Hungarians are the descendants of the Huns

    Of course, that doesn't weaken your basic point, it strengthens it!

    Barbara “The Hun” Palvin did a good job of invading Curacao in 2017.

    Barbara Palvin is a devastating barbarian Hun. How do New Englanders steer a boat? Attila!

    Barbara Palvin https://www.si.com/swimsuit/model/barbara-palvin/2017/photos#13 via @SI_Swimsuit

  137. I like it Steve. Though I still prefer my pet theory: Her mom actually does have Native American ancestors, it’s just they lied to Liz about being adopted her whole life.

  138. @Daniel H
    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what's the worst that can happen?

    “WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?”
    I might win and you don’t like Liberia after all.

    • LOL: Cato
  139. @Reg Cæsar

    As for the former Miss Jerome, she claims that a fall sent her into early labor.
     
    My brother was born about seven months after the wedding. He was obviously premature and only lived a day. (Might have survived today.) My mother said her labor was set off by a faulty clothes dryer she was leaning on. Don't you hate when that happens?

    https://media2.giphy.com/media/L0smgROngoMww/source.gif

    As for the Churchills, they married in Mormonism's birthplace, Palmyra, NY, the site of the only intersection in America with a church on all four corners. (None of them LDS.)


    https://m.facebook.com/VillageofPalmyraNY/photos/a.1135509019921323/1135508996587992/?type=3&source=44

    Oswald Spengler’s brother was said to have been born prematurely, at eight months, while his mother was doing laundry and tried lifting more weight than she could. He died soon after.

  140. Right wing troll?
    She was a member of the John Birch Society.
    She voted Republican for Gerald Ford in her first Presidential election.

    But then the Birchers might have been a front group for the “Usual Suspects” to control both sides in this false binary paradigm in which we are forced to dwell.

  141. @Louis Renault
    Now that the borders are reopening America is becoming more whitephobic.

    American Indians (that is Native Americans, not the Asian variety) should be at the forefront of the anti-immigration movement. If anybody in the world can be an American just by moving to the US, then the Indian connection to the land doesnt mean much. Their numbers as a percentage of the US population, already small, would fall even further. Their importance in American history would be even more diluted than it has been.

  142. “Liz Warren as Right-Wing Troll?”

    Steve. Put down the bong.

  143. @AnonFromTN
    She is 50% qualified already: she is a proven liar (her amerindinan ancestry). She just needs to show that she is a thief to prove that she is a perfect presidential material. Still, Biden is ahead of her: a proven liar and a proven thief.

    Haha, yes, and also, how good are her plagiarization skills? Chief Warren needs to up her game.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    That would be an important addition to her credentials. Someone needs to ask past-sell-date Pocahontas that.
  144. @Anonymous
    The Lycoming belongs in a museum with Gnome-Rhône rotary radials, the OXX-6 Curtiss and the three cylinder Szekely that had an AD requiring the heads to be tied together with cables so if it threw a cylinder off it wouldn’t land on the ground and hit someone.

    That’s funny on the Szekely, #190, but you do sound like a guy who’s never put in that last inch of throttle on those TSIO-540’s.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I've put that last inch of throttle in on a V-1650-9A Packard built Rolls Merlin (I was dual with another guy) and on twin J85-5Rs, (ditto) through the gate and felt that little letback, then the WHOMP!! and the MAX AB lights come on the panel. Somehow I suspect I'm not missing much.

    On my own I mostly flew stuff with low compression 320 Lycs and 85, 95, O-200 Continentals. Since I was paying the gas out of pocket I was satisfied. But they were museum pieces then and I knew it. I did solo a Tiger Moth with the inline DH engine. That was interesting.

  145. @Dan Hayes
    OscarWildeLoveChild:

    Surprisingly, Tucker Carlson has respect for Warren in her earlier incarnation (specifically the book coauthored with her daughter questioning the two-income marriage trap)!

    She deserves respect for that too, Dan. She obviously is nothing but an opportunist, as others have written, as she put all that behind her to go full-out feminist along with all the rest of her current stupidity. I bet she’s hoping none of the other Blue Squad candidates get hold of that book … and someone who can read it to them.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  146. @Achmed E. Newman
    Haha, yes, and also, how good are her plagiarization skills? Chief Warren needs to up her game.

    That would be an important addition to her credentials. Someone needs to ask past-sell-date Pocahontas that.

  147. Anonymous[668] • Disclaimer says:

    she was, in effect, trolling the affirmative action system by pointing out the absurdity in the system that even she could claim to be worthy of affirmative action.

    As a core heritage American, and one with proven American Indian ancestry, Warren has as worthy a claim to affirmative action as anyone does. If anyone is deserving of governmental protection it is heritage Americans and American Indians.

  148. @Reg Cæsar
    Correction: it was the Jeromes, Churchill's maternal grandparents, who married in Palmyra.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Jerome

    Were the Jerome’s Jewish?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Were the Jeromes Jewish?
     
    Presybyterians. At least Grandpa Jerome's brothers were ministers in that church.
  149. @Achmed E. Newman
    Same for Piper Aircraft, iSF.

    Cherokee
    Dakota
    Comanche
    Apache
    Aztec
    Seminole
    Saratoga
    Seneca
    Navajo

    Maybe, to cut the budget just a tad to increase that available for reparations, Elizabeth Warren can get sell Ronnie's old 747-400 Air Force 1's and ride in a Piper Chieftain - 375 Hp per side, injected turbocharged Lycoming TSIO-540's. It's a kick in the ass, with seating for 8!

    I forgot to mention US Civil War General William Tecumseh Sherman.

    Sherman reported that his middle name came from his father having “caught a fancy for the great chief of the Shawnees, ‘Tecumseh’

  150. @International Jew
    And I'm surprised she changed her political outlook so much, when she was already in her forties. That's surely quite rare.

    It is sort of like Arianna Huffington. She was a GOP pundit and then found out living in LA was rough if you weren’t in the in crowd. By 2005, she had founded the Huffpo and the rest is history.

  151. @Anon55uu
    In Australia we don’t have “race” in the census (other than an aboriginality question), but rather “ancestry”. The question has only been there since the 1980s and it includes an option for “Australian”. The top 4 ancestries claimed are English 36.1%, Australian 33.5%, Irish 11% and Scottish 9.3%. More than one box can be selected. In earlier times “native” meant Australian-born white (there was a Friendly Society called the Australian Natives Association) and “Australian” meant aboriginal, but the meanings reversed as the twentieth century went on.

    The joys of a immigrant nation. Here in social democratic, free economy Norway no census have been performed for decades. Everyone is for some peculiar reason enmeshed in some government database always, so THEY KNOW!

    I’m joking of course. Well, they do know, but you reminded me of the debate a couple of iSteve posts earlier, I was to late to it, but here is my argument: The war during the break-up of Yugoslavia was sectarian, everyone involved was an ethnic Slav. Just for the record.

  152. @Cloudbuster
    OT: Just watched the Netflix movie In the Shadow of the Moon. It's a sci-fi love letter to cancel culture. Quite literally memory-holing the past, erasing people who thought bad thoughts, because "some thoughts should never be thought."

    So did they erased that damn racist William Shockley; “Shockley is the man who brought silicon to Silicon Valley?”

    Boy, that sounds almost like how Dr. Wernher von Braun, the man responsible for getting us to the Moon and completely erased in both the ABC and CBS retrospectives on the Apollo 11 landings this year.

  153. @Charles Pewitt
    Barbara Palvin is Hungarian.

    https://twitter.com/SI_Swimsuit/status/1123270864596811782?s=20

    My heart is palvitating.

  154. @Anonymous
    Were the Jerome's Jewish?

    Were the Jeromes Jewish?

    Presybyterians. At least Grandpa Jerome’s brothers were ministers in that church.

  155. @bigdicknick
    I think there are professors who went to U Michigan law school at harvard. No one went anywhere like Rutgers though. Except the squaw of course.

    bigdicknick:

    “the squaw” aka Liz Warren – the perfect appellation! Muchos Thankos!!

  156. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    That's funny on the Szekely, #190, but you do sound like a guy who's never put in that last inch of throttle on those TSIO-540's.

    I’ve put that last inch of throttle in on a V-1650-9A Packard built Rolls Merlin (I was dual with another guy) and on twin J85-5Rs, (ditto) through the gate and felt that little letback, then the WHOMP!! and the MAX AB lights come on the panel. Somehow I suspect I’m not missing much.

    On my own I mostly flew stuff with low compression 320 Lycs and 85, 95, O-200 Continentals. Since I was paying the gas out of pocket I was satisfied. But they were museum pieces then and I knew it. I did solo a Tiger Moth with the inline DH engine. That was interesting.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Well, it probably had a hell of a punch, but those big Lycomings may be around longer than the very few museum-piece Merlins. That J85 is in the Air Force trainers, right?

    Electric may take over within 5-10 years on the civilian trainers, Gen-Av is a shell of its former self, and who knows when Greta Thornberg may sail over and tell us we can't use that LL anymore. For now, there are still lots of big opposed recips. flying around. I still love the smell of 100 low-lead in the morning.
  157. @Prof D
    In the early 90's, EVERYONE in humanities grad programs talked about checking the Native American box, and we ALL decided it would be morally wrong to do so since we hadn't experienced any discrimination based on our putative Native American ancestry (interestingly, we all had either 1/16 or 1/32 stories in our families). I'm sure it helped that there was a grad student in our program who really was 1/2 Cherokee—with a tribal identification card and everything (he liked to hang antifeminist National Review covers in his office cube to troll the feminists). In any event, we all knew it was a bullshit thing to do.
    I'm pretty sure the same attitude held in law schools, since Lizzie Warren seems to be the ONLY person to use that dodge to get a Harvard appointment. That kind of cheating--which everyone else passed on--should be punished harshly, no matter how late in a person's career it is discovered: you make suckers out of all those who played by the rules, you get the boot. Sadly, this does not appear to be the case if you've slithered yourself onto a really good branch surrounded by other powerful snakes.

    I disagree. It’s tough enough to be successful without someone putting a thumb on the scale of the competition. If you are being unfairly discriminated against, you do what you have to do.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Let me explain my AGREE for the Professor. It's great to be fair and nice. That's what you do within a society to keep it a good, civilized society. The US Feral Gov't is no longer any part of our society. People need to learn to fight back. F__k their forms, f__k their forced discrimination, and f__k the US Government.
  158. @Anonymous
    I've put that last inch of throttle in on a V-1650-9A Packard built Rolls Merlin (I was dual with another guy) and on twin J85-5Rs, (ditto) through the gate and felt that little letback, then the WHOMP!! and the MAX AB lights come on the panel. Somehow I suspect I'm not missing much.

    On my own I mostly flew stuff with low compression 320 Lycs and 85, 95, O-200 Continentals. Since I was paying the gas out of pocket I was satisfied. But they were museum pieces then and I knew it. I did solo a Tiger Moth with the inline DH engine. That was interesting.

    Well, it probably had a hell of a punch, but those big Lycomings may be around longer than the very few museum-piece Merlins. That J85 is in the Air Force trainers, right?

    Electric may take over within 5-10 years on the civilian trainers, Gen-Av is a shell of its former self, and who knows when Greta Thornberg may sail over and tell us we can’t use that LL anymore. For now, there are still lots of big opposed recips. flying around. I still love the smell of 100 low-lead in the morning.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I use 100LL in my air cooled magneto ignition pride and joy- a early 1960s T head Gravely lawn tractor. Even using Alcott TCP it fouls plugs a lot, but starts first pull each spring. On car gas I had to rebuild the carb every season.

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is, even in places where US prices are doubled or more by road tax. Wholesale price is not the issue unless you own the FBO. Last two gallons of 100LL I bought were $6 each. But that’s half a season worth for the Gravely.
    , @Anonymous
    Yes, a ride with CAP in the T-38 ruined me for Cessna/Piper/Beech GA for life. What an ultimate, perfect flying machine. I envied Chuck Thornton more than anyone else on earth for years-he was the only guy on planet that had his very own Talon. He's a dick, but he earned the right.

    Avgas will be gone, at least leaded avgas, within our lifetimes. Recip warbird and high compression flat engine operators are going to have some serious work to do to stay flying. Low compression and really old engines will scarf car gas, no problem.
  159. @Don't Look at Me
    I disagree. It's tough enough to be successful without someone putting a thumb on the scale of the competition. If you are being unfairly discriminated against, you do what you have to do.

    Let me explain my AGREE for the Professor. It’s great to be fair and nice. That’s what you do within a society to keep it a good, civilized society. The US Feral Gov’t is no longer any part of our society. People need to learn to fight back. F__k their forms, f__k their forced discrimination, and f__k the US Government.

  160. anon[365] • Disclaimer says:
    @22pp22
    I thought Tony Blair was bad. She is worse, I hope to God she doesn't win.

    The continuing Brett Kavanaugh fiasco proves beyond doubt that she, Kamala Harris, Maisie Hirono, Cory Booker and Beto O'Rourke are completely devoid of scruples and morals.

    Britain never recovered from Blair and almost certainly never will.

    Britain never recovered from Blair and almost certainly never will.

    To your point, let’s recognize the Tony Blair led increase in third-world immigration into the U.K. The vast herds of back country Pakistanis, etc.

    The U.K. might assimilate other Europeans.

    The people-groups that Blair and his ilk brought in formed the “grooming gangs” that have likely rendered thousands of indigenous English females incapable of mothering the next generation of English offspring, if not literally sterile from STD’s.
    Not to mention the foreign-bastards resulting from gang rapes, now growing up on the dole paid by taxes on the indigenous English.

    Immigration is a force-multiplier for the genocide against the English.

    Check out that UN definition of genocide, which includes:
    Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group . . . https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

    Tony Blair and his henchmen are documented as bragging about “rubbing the Conservative’s noses” in “diversity”. Diversity looks more and more like genocide with every passing year.

  161. @Daniel H
    Lots of people on the right say that you should just check off Native American on your forms because you were born here, right, and how are they going to prove you are not American Indian?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what's the worst that can happen?

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?

    On the Census: No no no no, hell no. By doing so you are increasing the number of blacks, or Native Americans or whatever who need to be “represented.” So be honest on the census.

    On work forms, loan applications, and elsewhere: hell yes. By doing so you are increasing the share that has been represented – the number of loans the bank has made to blacks, the number of blacks employed by your firm, etc. My wife and I identified as black and Hispanic when we applied for our last mortgage. No one ever challenged us.

    It’s unlikely that many banks or employers will challenge your claim. They want to be able to tell the government they’ve given more loans to “minorities” and have more minorities on the payroll. And if you’ve identified as a minority then they have plausible deniability when and if the government comes asking (which it probably won’t).

    I say all this being fairly certain that Census Records can’t be accessed by any businesses or even other government agencies. Census records aren’t made public until 72 years after the census. So if you check yourself as white on the census, but then claim yourself to be something else for the purposes of, say, a small business loan or employment, they can’t go dig up your census records until you are either dead or well into retirement.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    You may not be aware but we recently learned that the Census Bureau ratted out Japanese-Americans during World War II:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03/secret-use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-wwii/

    I did some work for the Census Bureau many years ago--and everyone swore this could never happen to anyone--ever.

    Just one more government lie...another wacky conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact.
    , @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I had my DNA tested and have more African ancestry than Warren has Indian ancestry. (They were able to get pretty specific, pinpointing Nigeria as the home of negro ancestor(s).)

    Bring on the reparations! My peoples have suffered greatly! I gots da proof!
    , @Paleo Liberal
    Many years ago I was starting at a new company. I am rather white, but I am a member of an Indian tribe (OK Cherokee). I asked the nice HR lady which box to check. She told me it would be much better for the company if I checked the American Indian box.

    I often wonder if Ms. Warren ever had that experience, where the nice HR lady nudged her to check the American Indian box.
  162. @Wilkey

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?

     

    On the Census: No no no no, hell no. By doing so you are increasing the number of blacks, or Native Americans or whatever who need to be "represented." So be honest on the census.

    On work forms, loan applications, and elsewhere: hell yes. By doing so you are increasing the share that has been represented - the number of loans the bank has made to blacks, the number of blacks employed by your firm, etc. My wife and I identified as black and Hispanic when we applied for our last mortgage. No one ever challenged us.

    It's unlikely that many banks or employers will challenge your claim. They want to be able to tell the government they've given more loans to "minorities" and have more minorities on the payroll. And if you've identified as a minority then they have plausible deniability when and if the government comes asking (which it probably won't).

    I say all this being fairly certain that Census Records can't be accessed by any businesses or even other government agencies. Census records aren't made public until 72 years after the census. So if you check yourself as white on the census, but then claim yourself to be something else for the purposes of, say, a small business loan or employment, they can't go dig up your census records until you are either dead or well into retirement.

    You may not be aware but we recently learned that the Census Bureau ratted out Japanese-Americans during World War II:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03/secret-use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-wwii/

    I did some work for the Census Bureau many years ago–and everyone swore this could never happen to anyone–ever.

    Just one more government lie…another wacky conspiracy theory becomes conspiracy fact.

  163. I say all this being fairly certain that Census Records can’t be accessed by any businesses or even other government agencies. Census records aren’t made public until 72 years after the census.

    Unless you are Raj Chetty perhaps.

  164. @Wilkey

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?

     

    On the Census: No no no no, hell no. By doing so you are increasing the number of blacks, or Native Americans or whatever who need to be "represented." So be honest on the census.

    On work forms, loan applications, and elsewhere: hell yes. By doing so you are increasing the share that has been represented - the number of loans the bank has made to blacks, the number of blacks employed by your firm, etc. My wife and I identified as black and Hispanic when we applied for our last mortgage. No one ever challenged us.

    It's unlikely that many banks or employers will challenge your claim. They want to be able to tell the government they've given more loans to "minorities" and have more minorities on the payroll. And if you've identified as a minority then they have plausible deniability when and if the government comes asking (which it probably won't).

    I say all this being fairly certain that Census Records can't be accessed by any businesses or even other government agencies. Census records aren't made public until 72 years after the census. So if you check yourself as white on the census, but then claim yourself to be something else for the purposes of, say, a small business loan or employment, they can't go dig up your census records until you are either dead or well into retirement.

    I had my DNA tested and have more African ancestry than Warren has Indian ancestry. (They were able to get pretty specific, pinpointing Nigeria as the home of negro ancestor(s).)

    Bring on the reparations! My peoples have suffered greatly! I gots da proof!

  165. @J1234
    from wiki:

    Warren has described her family as teetering "on the ragged edge of the middle class" and "kind of hanging on at the edges by our fingernails"
     
    Her family had a very nice car when she was little. That's a '53 Lincoln in this picture (taken about 1955 or 6, judging from Elizabeth's approximate age at the time.) House not that great, but the house we lived in when I was born (1958) wasn't much bigger, and there were five kids in our family. My dad was an electrical engineer and drove a dull and dented old '47 Hudson until about the time I was born.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Byk6TogHXZt/?utm_source=ig_embed

    Photo probably from a couple of years after that, actually. Her dad is much grayer in this photo than one definitely taken in ’55, and color snapshots not common in ’56.

  166. So I guess the unwritten conclusion of your report is that race doesn’t exist. Hardehar. Sailer just proved race doesn’t exist.

  167. Anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Well, it probably had a hell of a punch, but those big Lycomings may be around longer than the very few museum-piece Merlins. That J85 is in the Air Force trainers, right?

    Electric may take over within 5-10 years on the civilian trainers, Gen-Av is a shell of its former self, and who knows when Greta Thornberg may sail over and tell us we can't use that LL anymore. For now, there are still lots of big opposed recips. flying around. I still love the smell of 100 low-lead in the morning.

    I use 100LL in my air cooled magneto ignition pride and joy- a early 1960s T head Gravely lawn tractor. Even using Alcott TCP it fouls plugs a lot, but starts first pull each spring. On car gas I had to rebuild the carb every season.

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is, even in places where US prices are doubled or more by road tax. Wholesale price is not the issue unless you own the FBO. Last two gallons of 100LL I bought were $6 each. But that’s half a season worth for the Gravely.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Since I can recall, 100ll has been in the neighborhood of 2X 87-octane car gas. It's the same now, but does vary widely around that ($4.25 to $5.50, with higher, and the sky's the limit at FBOs at big airports - they really don't want to see you there to begin with, making their ramp look trashy!)

    Car gas shouldn't be stored or left in a machine (even more importantly) longer than a coupla' months, unless you. put stabilizer in it. The stabilizer works great though, but I've only put it in non-alcoholic gas.
    , @William Badwhite

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world
     
    The entire US uses less than 200mm gallons of 100LL in a given year. Most of the US supply is made by a single refiner (Chevron IIRC) basically as a favor to the US general aviation community. My understanding is the entire year's supply takes no more than a couple of days to produce.

    The FAA has been pushing for a phase out of leaded fuels for years, but there are zillions of aircraft engines in service that unleaded fuels would damage (the lead acts as a lubricant). Owners of private aircraft tend to be (not surprisingly, given that they own aircraft) of above average wealth and are well-organized so their (ok, OUR) lobbying power is impressive.

    and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is
     
    Yep, 87 octane car gas where I live is around $2.90 today (from a name brand station), avgas at the FBO I use is $5.50 today. I'd guess a significant part of the difference is 100 octane vs 87 (check out the price difference b/w 87 and 93). Then throw in the pricing power the seller has by there being so few distribution points. Also, the distributor needs separate trucks, etc.
  168. @Kronos
    I think the Democratic Party is trying to sell her to the hardcore female Hillary Clinton supporter.

    -She’s “younger” (by two years) but not young enough to sour female lefty boomers.

    -Cleaner and less corrupt. (Can anyone truly beat the Clintons?) The Indian thing is very tiny. Between her and Hillary, it’s comparing a little fly poop in a vat vs. a vat of poop.

    -More energetic and friendly in appearance.

    -Doesn’t have the fierce foes and betrayed/lethargic allies of the Clintons.

    -She was on Hillary’s Vice Presidential shortlist. So many believe there’s donor/voter compatibility.

    The Democratic party is pushing her because they know it’s their last chance before the people succeed in turning the party into a real party of the left. The rich liberals, like the Lib Dems in the UK, will do absolutely anything to help the people as long as it doesn’t involve them paying a dime in taxes. Every one of Liz’s mild, incremental tweaks can be rolled back by a Republican Senate or the next President. As a lawyer, she knows the incremental and technocratic changes she’s proposing are guaranteed to be killed by the hard-right partisan judicial activists on the Supreme Court.

    Her proposals for addressing the student loan crisis are instructive. She has a plan with so many thresholds, loopholes, and formulas that it’s clear it’s intended just to help a tiny handful of people in her favorite constituencies and the rest of us can go hang.

    She is, to her credit, less loathsome than the Clintons, so she’s got that going for her.

  169. • Replies: @Justvisiting
    Judge says "that time is not yet here".

    What is she, the omniscient Lord of racial justice?

    What a joke.

    Afirmative action needs to be gone--yesterday.

    _That_ is the time that should be here.
  170. @Wilkey

    Checking off the native American box, that has never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, every time, going forward, it will. Ha, ha. I just may check off the African American box too, and that Latino, WTF, what’s the worst that can happen?

     

    On the Census: No no no no, hell no. By doing so you are increasing the number of blacks, or Native Americans or whatever who need to be "represented." So be honest on the census.

    On work forms, loan applications, and elsewhere: hell yes. By doing so you are increasing the share that has been represented - the number of loans the bank has made to blacks, the number of blacks employed by your firm, etc. My wife and I identified as black and Hispanic when we applied for our last mortgage. No one ever challenged us.

    It's unlikely that many banks or employers will challenge your claim. They want to be able to tell the government they've given more loans to "minorities" and have more minorities on the payroll. And if you've identified as a minority then they have plausible deniability when and if the government comes asking (which it probably won't).

    I say all this being fairly certain that Census Records can't be accessed by any businesses or even other government agencies. Census records aren't made public until 72 years after the census. So if you check yourself as white on the census, but then claim yourself to be something else for the purposes of, say, a small business loan or employment, they can't go dig up your census records until you are either dead or well into retirement.

    Many years ago I was starting at a new company. I am rather white, but I am a member of an Indian tribe (OK Cherokee). I asked the nice HR lady which box to check. She told me it would be much better for the company if I checked the American Indian box.

    I often wonder if Ms. Warren ever had that experience, where the nice HR lady nudged her to check the American Indian box.

  171. @Lot
    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    https://elizabethforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2-EW-with-Amelia.jpg

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    https://www.thewomenseye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5A.jpg

    http://www.unitevoters.com/elizabethwarren.jpg

    Yep.

    To me she’s always looked clearly like the girls who got tauntingly called “squaw” in high school.

    But blacks and conservative whites pay less attention to facial features and more to skin and hair color than the folks I grew up with.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    If you ask me, you guys are just fooled by the hairstyle. If she had a Farrah Fawcett 1970s perm, nobody would say she looks like an Indian, unless she put a red dot on her forehead with a Scripto.
  172. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Well, it probably had a hell of a punch, but those big Lycomings may be around longer than the very few museum-piece Merlins. That J85 is in the Air Force trainers, right?

    Electric may take over within 5-10 years on the civilian trainers, Gen-Av is a shell of its former self, and who knows when Greta Thornberg may sail over and tell us we can't use that LL anymore. For now, there are still lots of big opposed recips. flying around. I still love the smell of 100 low-lead in the morning.

    Yes, a ride with CAP in the T-38 ruined me for Cessna/Piper/Beech GA for life. What an ultimate, perfect flying machine. I envied Chuck Thornton more than anyone else on earth for years-he was the only guy on planet that had his very own Talon. He’s a dick, but he earned the right.

    Avgas will be gone, at least leaded avgas, within our lifetimes. Recip warbird and high compression flat engine operators are going to have some serious work to do to stay flying. Low compression and really old engines will scarf car gas, no problem.

  173. @Anonymous
    I use 100LL in my air cooled magneto ignition pride and joy- a early 1960s T head Gravely lawn tractor. Even using Alcott TCP it fouls plugs a lot, but starts first pull each spring. On car gas I had to rebuild the carb every season.

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is, even in places where US prices are doubled or more by road tax. Wholesale price is not the issue unless you own the FBO. Last two gallons of 100LL I bought were $6 each. But that’s half a season worth for the Gravely.

    Since I can recall, 100ll has been in the neighborhood of 2X 87-octane car gas. It’s the same now, but does vary widely around that ($4.25 to $5.50, with higher, and the sky’s the limit at FBOs at big airports – they really don’t want to see you there to begin with, making their ramp look trashy!)

    Car gas shouldn’t be stored or left in a machine (even more importantly) longer than a coupla’ months, unless you. put stabilizer in it. The stabilizer works great though, but I’ve only put it in non-alcoholic gas.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://www.globalair.com/airport/fuelmap.aspx?aptcode=OJC
    OJC Approach: Instrument
    Longest Runway: 4098 ft
    Lowest prices on the field (2 FBOs):

    100LL
    $6.25
    JETA+
    $6.05

    All Prices Include Taxes
  174. @randomerican
    Yep.

    To me she's always looked clearly like the girls who got tauntingly called "squaw" in high school.

    But blacks and conservative whites pay less attention to facial features and more to skin and hair color than the folks I grew up with.

    If you ask me, you guys are just fooled by the hairstyle. If she had a Farrah Fawcett 1970s perm, nobody would say she looks like an Indian, unless she put a red dot on her forehead with a Scripto.

    • Replies: @randomerican
    Oh, do you think that's why Farrah adopted that hairdo?

    I said "always" for a reason. I've been thinking Warren looks like the girls who were teased by being called squaw *all along*. I think so because of her facial features. ETA: I could take a guess that it may be the widely-spaced eyes plus the long philtrum, but I really don't know, it's really just a general impression from cues learned in childhood.

    Farrah supposedly had Choctaw ancestry, but I think she could pass. (Maybe because she *didn't* have the long philtrum?) Unlike Warren. :shrug: Do you think the opposite?

  175. @Achmed E. Newman
    Since I can recall, 100ll has been in the neighborhood of 2X 87-octane car gas. It's the same now, but does vary widely around that ($4.25 to $5.50, with higher, and the sky's the limit at FBOs at big airports - they really don't want to see you there to begin with, making their ramp look trashy!)

    Car gas shouldn't be stored or left in a machine (even more importantly) longer than a coupla' months, unless you. put stabilizer in it. The stabilizer works great though, but I've only put it in non-alcoholic gas.

    https://www.globalair.com/airport/fuelmap.aspx?aptcode=OJC
    OJC Approach: Instrument
    Longest Runway: 4098 ft
    Lowest prices on the field (2 FBOs):

    100LL
    $6.25
    JETA+
    $6.05

    All Prices Include Taxes

  176. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1179129314979323907

    Judge says “that time is not yet here”.

    What is she, the omniscient Lord of racial justice?

    What a joke.

    Afirmative action needs to be gone–yesterday.

    _That_ is the time that should be here.

  177. @Achmed E. Newman
    If you ask me, you guys are just fooled by the hairstyle. If she had a Farrah Fawcett 1970s perm, nobody would say she looks like an Indian, unless she put a red dot on her forehead with a Scripto.

    Oh, do you think that’s why Farrah adopted that hairdo?

    I said “always” for a reason. I’ve been thinking Warren looks like the girls who were teased by being called squaw *all along*. I think so because of her facial features. ETA: I could take a guess that it may be the widely-spaced eyes plus the long philtrum, but I really don’t know, it’s really just a general impression from cues learned in childhood.

    Farrah supposedly had Choctaw ancestry, but I think she could pass. (Maybe because she *didn’t* have the long philtrum?) Unlike Warren. :shrug: Do you think the opposite?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Except for hair, teeth and nipples, Farrah was a girl of modest physical assets. She did become a competent actress but only later in her career. She was from all accounts a nice person and conveyed a feminine soft personality in interviews, but had several public episodes of instability.

    I did feel much sadder about her death than that of Michael Jackson.
  178. Anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @randomerican
    Oh, do you think that's why Farrah adopted that hairdo?

    I said "always" for a reason. I've been thinking Warren looks like the girls who were teased by being called squaw *all along*. I think so because of her facial features. ETA: I could take a guess that it may be the widely-spaced eyes plus the long philtrum, but I really don't know, it's really just a general impression from cues learned in childhood.

    Farrah supposedly had Choctaw ancestry, but I think she could pass. (Maybe because she *didn't* have the long philtrum?) Unlike Warren. :shrug: Do you think the opposite?

    Except for hair, teeth and nipples, Farrah was a girl of modest physical assets. She did become a competent actress but only later in her career. She was from all accounts a nice person and conveyed a feminine soft personality in interviews, but had several public episodes of instability.

    I did feel much sadder about her death than that of Michael Jackson.

  179. @Anonymous
    I use 100LL in my air cooled magneto ignition pride and joy- a early 1960s T head Gravely lawn tractor. Even using Alcott TCP it fouls plugs a lot, but starts first pull each spring. On car gas I had to rebuild the carb every season.

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is, even in places where US prices are doubled or more by road tax. Wholesale price is not the issue unless you own the FBO. Last two gallons of 100LL I bought were $6 each. But that’s half a season worth for the Gravely.

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world

    The entire US uses less than 200mm gallons of 100LL in a given year. Most of the US supply is made by a single refiner (Chevron IIRC) basically as a favor to the US general aviation community. My understanding is the entire year’s supply takes no more than a couple of days to produce.

    The FAA has been pushing for a phase out of leaded fuels for years, but there are zillions of aircraft engines in service that unleaded fuels would damage (the lead acts as a lubricant). Owners of private aircraft tend to be (not surprisingly, given that they own aircraft) of above average wealth and are well-organized so their (ok, OUR) lobbying power is impressive.

    and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is

    Yep, 87 octane car gas where I live is around $2.90 today (from a name brand station), avgas at the FBO I use is $5.50 today. I’d guess a significant part of the difference is 100 octane vs 87 (check out the price difference b/w 87 and 93). Then throw in the pricing power the seller has by there being so few distribution points. Also, the distributor needs separate trucks, etc.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Leaded avgas can’t be pipelined so is mostly trucked, though dedicated rail tank cars can be used. They pipelined it in the old days.

    Aviation gasoline is rated by a different system than car gas. 100LL is actually only usually around 92 octane by the R+M/2 method. The aviation rating protocol was designed for rating fuels used in large cylinder supercharged radial engines. Aside from that,Reid vapor pressure is highly controlled because avgas was intended for bombers and their fighter escorts to be operated at thirty thousand feet, and later DC-7s and Connies up there. Very little recip GA operation takes place up there now. Even the warbirds rarely go there. I talked with a retired airline captain in his early seventies who said he had 3000 total,1500 pic in B17s- he’ flown at least half the world’s surviving fleet since checking out with Junior Burchinal while on leave from Vietnam-and he said he had never been up over maybe eleven thousand feet in one.

    Operationally they would fly over Germany at what we’d now call FL 300 and up. On oxygen and in electrically heated suits at very, very cold temperatures.

    Aircraft engines can do without lead but detonation (you can’t hear it until it damages the engine) and vapor lock are very serious matters. There is also the issue that car gas has since the seventies had a lot of chemicals used in it that the rubbers and plastics used in aircraft were never designed for.

    A new airplane can be designed to deal with this but no one is designing new reciprocating engine production airplanes. GA aircraft are museum pieces with special complete supply chains still making WWII technology last updated in the JFK/MM era. Everything they use, wire, electrical fittings, hoses, clamps, fittings, nuts and bolts, is aviation specific.

    At one time it was better than what was used elsewhere but any more not necessarily. But the old standards have been codified. Do you spend a hundred man hours testing and submitting for approval for a new idea or do you do it like Ryan did it for Lindy and write “per AC 43.13.1B”?
  180. Anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @William Badwhite

    But avgas is totally unavailable in much of the world
     
    The entire US uses less than 200mm gallons of 100LL in a given year. Most of the US supply is made by a single refiner (Chevron IIRC) basically as a favor to the US general aviation community. My understanding is the entire year's supply takes no more than a couple of days to produce.

    The FAA has been pushing for a phase out of leaded fuels for years, but there are zillions of aircraft engines in service that unleaded fuels would damage (the lead acts as a lubricant). Owners of private aircraft tend to be (not surprisingly, given that they own aircraft) of above average wealth and are well-organized so their (ok, OUR) lobbying power is impressive.

    and for some reason is roughly two to three times the cost of car gas everywhere it is
     
    Yep, 87 octane car gas where I live is around $2.90 today (from a name brand station), avgas at the FBO I use is $5.50 today. I'd guess a significant part of the difference is 100 octane vs 87 (check out the price difference b/w 87 and 93). Then throw in the pricing power the seller has by there being so few distribution points. Also, the distributor needs separate trucks, etc.

    Leaded avgas can’t be pipelined so is mostly trucked, though dedicated rail tank cars can be used. They pipelined it in the old days.

    Aviation gasoline is rated by a different system than car gas. 100LL is actually only usually around 92 octane by the R+M/2 method. The aviation rating protocol was designed for rating fuels used in large cylinder supercharged radial engines. Aside from that,Reid vapor pressure is highly controlled because avgas was intended for bombers and their fighter escorts to be operated at thirty thousand feet, and later DC-7s and Connies up there. Very little recip GA operation takes place up there now. Even the warbirds rarely go there. I talked with a retired airline captain in his early seventies who said he had 3000 total,1500 pic in B17s- he’ flown at least half the world’s surviving fleet since checking out with Junior Burchinal while on leave from Vietnam-and he said he had never been up over maybe eleven thousand feet in one.

    Operationally they would fly over Germany at what we’d now call FL 300 and up. On oxygen and in electrically heated suits at very, very cold temperatures.

    Aircraft engines can do without lead but detonation (you can’t hear it until it damages the engine) and vapor lock are very serious matters. There is also the issue that car gas has since the seventies had a lot of chemicals used in it that the rubbers and plastics used in aircraft were never designed for.

    A new airplane can be designed to deal with this but no one is designing new reciprocating engine production airplanes. GA aircraft are museum pieces with special complete supply chains still making WWII technology last updated in the JFK/MM era. Everything they use, wire, electrical fittings, hoses, clamps, fittings, nuts and bolts, is aviation specific.

    At one time it was better than what was used elsewhere but any more not necessarily. But the old standards have been codified. Do you spend a hundred man hours testing and submitting for approval for a new idea or do you do it like Ryan did it for Lindy and write “per AC 43.13.1B”?

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    I didn't know that about the different octane rating systems, thank you.

    Aircraft engines can do without lead but detonation (you can’t hear it until it damages the engine) and vapor lock are very serious matters.
     
    "Aircraft engines" is a very broad term. Using unleaded fuels in reciprocating engines designed to burn 100LL leads to very fast deterioration of valve seats and guides (by very fast I mean in as little as 10 hours). As I said before, the lead acts as a lubricant.

    The leaded fuel issue has been front-and-center on the GA radar screen for a long time (close to 10 years). The fact it is still an issue is an indicator that there isn't an easy solution.

    A new airplane can be designed to deal with this but no one is designing new reciprocating engine production airplanes
     
    The issue is not the airplanes, but the engines. Reciprocating engines that burn diesel fuel as well as jet fuel already exist though there are some performance issues, presumably these can be ironed out over time.

    The challenge for GA is the enormous number of avgas burning engines that are already out there. Aircraft owners being told they need to spend $50k+ to replace a perfectly functional engine tend to complain to their Congressmen.
  181. @Anonymous
    Leaded avgas can’t be pipelined so is mostly trucked, though dedicated rail tank cars can be used. They pipelined it in the old days.

    Aviation gasoline is rated by a different system than car gas. 100LL is actually only usually around 92 octane by the R+M/2 method. The aviation rating protocol was designed for rating fuels used in large cylinder supercharged radial engines. Aside from that,Reid vapor pressure is highly controlled because avgas was intended for bombers and their fighter escorts to be operated at thirty thousand feet, and later DC-7s and Connies up there. Very little recip GA operation takes place up there now. Even the warbirds rarely go there. I talked with a retired airline captain in his early seventies who said he had 3000 total,1500 pic in B17s- he’ flown at least half the world’s surviving fleet since checking out with Junior Burchinal while on leave from Vietnam-and he said he had never been up over maybe eleven thousand feet in one.

    Operationally they would fly over Germany at what we’d now call FL 300 and up. On oxygen and in electrically heated suits at very, very cold temperatures.

    Aircraft engines can do without lead but detonation (you can’t hear it until it damages the engine) and vapor lock are very serious matters. There is also the issue that car gas has since the seventies had a lot of chemicals used in it that the rubbers and plastics used in aircraft were never designed for.

    A new airplane can be designed to deal with this but no one is designing new reciprocating engine production airplanes. GA aircraft are museum pieces with special complete supply chains still making WWII technology last updated in the JFK/MM era. Everything they use, wire, electrical fittings, hoses, clamps, fittings, nuts and bolts, is aviation specific.

    At one time it was better than what was used elsewhere but any more not necessarily. But the old standards have been codified. Do you spend a hundred man hours testing and submitting for approval for a new idea or do you do it like Ryan did it for Lindy and write “per AC 43.13.1B”?

    I didn’t know that about the different octane rating systems, thank you.

    Aircraft engines can do without lead but detonation (you can’t hear it until it damages the engine) and vapor lock are very serious matters.

    “Aircraft engines” is a very broad term. Using unleaded fuels in reciprocating engines designed to burn 100LL leads to very fast deterioration of valve seats and guides (by very fast I mean in as little as 10 hours). As I said before, the lead acts as a lubricant.

    The leaded fuel issue has been front-and-center on the GA radar screen for a long time (close to 10 years). The fact it is still an issue is an indicator that there isn’t an easy solution.

    A new airplane can be designed to deal with this but no one is designing new reciprocating engine production airplanes

    The issue is not the airplanes, but the engines. Reciprocating engines that burn diesel fuel as well as jet fuel already exist though there are some performance issues, presumably these can be ironed out over time.

    The challenge for GA is the enormous number of avgas burning engines that are already out there. Aircraft owners being told they need to spend $50k+ to replace a perfectly functional engine tend to complain to their Congressmen.

  182. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    There are several grades of avgas and the only difference is the color of the dye used and the amount of tetraethyl lead they put in. The grades ranged from red 80/87 to Purple 115/145 but red and green 100/130 were the popular grades, in civilian GA use. They came up with 100LL blue avgas as a suitable good-for-all grade in the late 70s, but red, green and purple are still available if you order enough. Purple is made in one batch for the Reno Air Races each year, seaplane operators in the Pac NW and Alaska get the green (much of this is bought by boat owners as a fuel supplement, but this is kept quiet because they fear EPA.)

    The biggest problem with blue avgas was not in the green engines but the red engines, in particular certain low compression Lycomings. There were two valve stem diameters in use and the ones with the smaller stems failed a lot, not because of the stems themselves, and all those engines were fitted with the bigger stem cylinders at (major or top) overhaul, or that’s what I remember from A&P school. Lead scavenging additives like tricresyl phosphate were added later and this helped a lot, but not completely.

    Stem lubrication is provided not by lead but by the engine’s own oil leaking into the guides and/or by an additive like Marvel Mystery Oil or a little outboard oil in the fuel. Lead does act as a seat saver in cast iron engines running the valve directly on the head material but hardened seats are already ubiquitous in all Continental, Lycoming and Franklin flat engines and in most radials made since the thirties. One possible exception might be the O-145 cast iron Lyc. There might be a dozen of those still flying, not sure.

    All horziontally opposed and radial engines certificated in the US were designed nd type certificated before 100LL was a thing, a far as I know, except the little flat four Rotax uused in some LSA applications. Lyc and TCM have not designed a new certificated spark ignition engine for civilian use in many decades, though there may be a new TCDS for a new derivative or two.

    Lycoming, Continental, and P&W radials have been run for test purposes on ethyl alcohol (I think in Brazil this is somewhat common), methyl alcohol and propane (helicopter applications) with no TEL and there were no reports of upper end problems. Cylinder head temps on the radials on propane were a concern, but they made it work ok.

    I agree diesel is better way to go as long as engine designers are required to design for use of Jet A, K-1 kero or #1/#2 diesel as a condition of certification. Jet A or its near equivalent arctic diesel is available worldwide, is pipelineable, and can be burned in most diesel engines as well. I have a feeling that gas turbines will mysteriously substantially decrease in price because some new magic machining method or some seemingly insignificant twist in pwoduct wiability laws or some other face saving horseshit if diesels cut into PT-6 Nation profits to any extent. The gross profit margin on small turbines is phenomenal.

  183. @Lot
    Warren could pass for 1/8 Indian when she had a tan and straight dark hair.

    https://elizabethforma.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2-EW-with-Amelia.jpg

    Looking at old photos, she was very attractive when she was young, but her mother was below average.

    https://www.thewomenseye.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/5A.jpg

    http://www.unitevoters.com/elizabethwarren.jpg

    In that first picture, she reminds me of the woman that Matthew Broderick had an affair with in Election, Delaney Driscoll, a distinctively unattractive look. Driscoll generously looks like a worse version of Margot Kidder.

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