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  1. Many people have pointed this out, but it’s crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She’s both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it’s a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it’s not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I’m sure lots of people can do better)…

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Disagree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Nah, disagree. This is brilliant. She needs to be mocked relentlessly. It would be great if ALL the GOP senators took DNA/ancestry tests and several came out as more American Indian than Warren.
    , @Antlitz Grollheim
    The humor is the point, because it's the humor that subconsciously drives home the belief that she's not Indian and therefore lied. People are swayed by pathos, not moral finger-wagging.
    , @Le Autiste Corv
    "in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement."

    This is why we have presidents like Bush and "statesmen" like McCain. Why should we care if she did deprive an "ACTUAL" Indian? Their reaction shows they know what is at stake, their gravy train.

    , @Song For the Deaf
    ‘Senator One One-Thousandth.’
    , @Uilleam Yr Alban
    Whites should en masse misrepresent their “race” for spoils purposes, given that those most interested in racial spoils also claim race does not exist. On that score Warren did nothing wrong.

    Her wrong is that she is a consistent hypocrite, both regarding racial spoils for her *electoral supporters* and regarding house flippers when she, herself, repeatedly flipped houses for profit.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don't find any evidence--or claims by people who could know--that she received her positions because of "being a minority."

    What is true is that the very vocal denial by everyone that she received AA benefits should work to counter the impression she is trying to create of being a minority.

    The vocal denials also appear to undercut AA per se, much as her genetic testing undercuts "race is a social construct." Harvard professors: "Benefitted from AA? No! Never! How could you think that?!"
    , @ben tillman

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    You contradicted yourself.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    … trolling her, it’s not the point.
     
    have u learned nothing
    , @Dtbb
    Use the famous Iron Eyes Cody pollution commercial, another famous fake Indian, juxtaposed somehow to her video.
    , @Pericles
    Really depends on whether Trump would want her as a possible opponent or not.

    Some enterprising reporter could ask her if she's ever taken advantage of AA. Either yes or no is an interesting claim.

    Not sure if this is a great moment to 'have a conversation' on AA though. It is a problem that questionable characters like quasi-hispanics, quasi-native americans, bangladeshi BLM princelings, africans and carribeans rather than african-americans, etc, can fake their way in, and Warren would presumably make a good example of this -- but the greater issue is that AA itself is bunk, racial gibs, and should be ended.
    , @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Don't do anything. #1 rule is you don't interrupt when you're opponent's f***ing up.
    , @Anonymous

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    She didn't lie. She does in fact have Indian ancestry.

    This whole thing is an attack on core heritage Americans, especially White Southerners, because many of them have Indian ancestry.
  2. Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy

    graham is acting like a high school bully

    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @Steve in Greensboro
    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.
    , @anonymous
    Nah, tiny duck.

    I appreciate your performance artist tenacity, always successfully saying weirdly-accurate-in-liberal-abortion-world stupid shit that you think makes you look smart and Republicans look bad. Props, accurate little dude!

    Elizabeth Warren lied, and doubled down. That was fun to watch!

    Lindsay became a man after McCain died, maybe in a better world Lindsay would have been a warrior before becoming a Senator, but in this world, he didn't. His "Story" is that while McCain was alive, he was all so scared to say virtuous brave things, out of faux respect for poor McCain, but now he is not so scared. It might not last, but he has had a good few weeks.

    I can be a performance artist, too, Little Duck.

    And as such let me say this - there are some real talented persistent idiots on this website, some of them suck up to Steve all the time and some of them, like you, try to criticize - to thousandfold criticize - whatever your extremely strange little brain views as Conservatism or, to be more accurate in the context of these comment thread, little 'Duck', Sailerism - but God gave you a fantastic gift to say the precisely wrong lazy thing about Everything you talk about! Thousands of times over and over again! You have to be a Sobran- level-smart conservative Manchurian candidate to do that, small Duck!

    It is like all the anti-American anti-democracy Soros-loving left wingers got together and tried to create you and they succeeded!

    Props, Tiny Duck, Props.

    , @Bubba
    Dude, like I thought you said you starred in Idiocracy ? And how's your skateboardin' with 3 wheels?

    https://spiritofthething.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/hoap-president-elizondo.jpg?w=317&h=421
    , @Reg Cæsar

    graham is acting like a high school bully
     
    Because boys don't hit girls, or even hurt their feelings.

    I remember those playground rules from a half-century ago. Glad to see someone else keeping them alive.

    , @Giuseppe
    She's fair game, she's running for president and she did something really stupid in her past by claiming minority status for career advancement. Her remarkably foolish efforts to fix it by releasing her DNA test are making it far worse than if she had not addressed it. Instead, she set herself up for being skewered by a grandstanding stunt like Lindsey Graham's.

    So you see, turning the country into an idiocracy has strong support across the aisle.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    TD - you've fallen off lately. Your work is no longer as amusing as it once was. You're beginning to sound too much like the shrill fools you once so successfully lampooned. Maybe you should take a break, rest up, let the creative juices restore themselves so that once more they will flow freely.
  3. Didn’t a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen’s soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I’m Hispanic!

    • LOL: Rosie
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish#Black_Irish

    Black Irish is an ambiguous term sometimes used (mainly outside Ireland) as a reference to a dark-haired phenotype appearing in people of Irish origin.[36] However, dark hair in people of Irish descent is common, although darker skin complexions appear less frequently.[37] One popular speculation suggests the Black Irish are descendants of survivors of the Spanish Armada, despite research discrediting such claims.[38] In Bob Quinn's documentary series Atlantean, he explores an alternative 'Iberian' hypothesis, proposing the existence of an ancient sea-trading route skirting the Atlantic coast from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula to regions such as Connemara. While preferring the term "The Atlantean Irish", Quinn's reference to certain phenotypical characteristics (within elements of the Irish populace and diaspora) as possible evidence of a previous Hibernian-Iberian (and possibly Berber) admixture mirrors common descriptions of the Black Irish.[39]
     
    , @Lot
    There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America.
    , @JMcG
    The Duquesa Santa Ana went aground in Loughros Mor Bay near Ardara, Co. Donegal in 1588. The crew marched cross country to Killybegs to meet another ship of the Armada, the Girona.
    The Girona departed for Scotland, carrying her own crew as well as the crews of two other ships, some 1300 souls in all.
    She foundered off the coast of Antrim, leaving only 9 survivors. Not much of a genetic trace from that lot of poor unfortunates.
    , @Cortes
    From memory, in the articles from the Symposium on the Spanish Armada held in Ireland in 1988, only a couple of verifiable examples of survivors integrated into Irish society could be identified.

    The survivor’s tale included (as a letter from Antwerp to his home in Spain) is fascinating.

    “God’s Obvious Design” is the title of the volume.

    , @Iberiano
    A group of the Celts most likely came from Northern Spain, traveled up the French Coast (Brittany, a Celtic region) and then landed in what is today Wales and Ireland--which accounts for the genetics being similar. It was faster travel, and "closer" than land travel. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic and even have bagpipes, not to mention very similar phenotypes.
    , @Bugg
    Mother's family name on both sides in Leitrim on the northeast coast of Ireland was Reynolds. Some claim it was a play on "Reynos", Spanish for the king's men, from a group of Armada survivors who became part of the community. Though there are other instances of that name appearing in the UK that have nothing to do with the wreck of the Armada.
    , @Stolen Valor Detective
    My Intro to Philosophy professor really takes the cake in terms of Rube Goldberg Machine minority ancestry speculation.


    He might look like a regular white guy, but actually he's part black. How can this be, you ask? Well, he's Irish, and part of the Spanish Armada got blown off course to Ireland, and there were Moorish crew members of the Armada, and the locals obviously welcomed and intermarried with the Spaniards, so...hesto presto, he's actually part black!

    (Let it be noted that I have found the professor in question to be generally quite charming and engaging as an instructor, and I think he is quite apt at teaching the material at a level suitable for the median student. [I'm taking the class to round out my credits/as a lark.])
    , @Stolen Valor Detective
    It was long believed that Vicente Fox's grandfather was Irish, but apparently he was of Germanic heritage, and Anglicized his last name from "Fuchs" to "Fox."
    , @Anon
    Actually not Only 3 ships got to Ireland. One washed up on the Dingle Penninsula in the west on the Atlantic. Don’t know the name of the ship. One survivor he was sent as POW to England then back to Spain.

    The San Juan Baptista and San Juan de Portugal survived because there was n expert navigator on the Baptista who’d been in those waters before. The other ship followed her. They landed more or less intact in a town on the east coast on the Irish Sea

    The Irish locals started murdering the crew so they’d have the right of salvaging the ships The English garrison intervened saved the crew put chains on them and sent them off to London. They were sent back to Spain

    It’s a useful myth, go for it.

    If you’re Italian remember that Spain ruled much of Italy for centuries. French? Find a Corsican ancestor.

    Jilles ‘ grandchildren can claim Hispanic status too if they come to the USA.
    , @Roderick Spode

    The sloop Nuestra Senora del Socorro (75 tons) anchored at Fenit, in Tralee Bay on the coast of Kerry, where she was surrendered to crown officers. The 24 men on board were taken into custody and marched to Tralee Castle. On the orders of Lady Margaret Denny, they were all hanged from a gibbet.
     
    There’s a typical story for you. It happened just by the Cliffs of Moher. Not much assimilation happening there.

    The major gene flow from the Iberian peninsula to Ireland happened long before the Armada.

    The Irish people are in fact a hybrid race created by Iberian, British and Scandinavian gene flow over thousands of years. The black type, BTW, is much more represented in the West of Ireland, which was also the poorest region and hence the greatest source of immigrants to the Americas.
  4. @Tiny Duck
    Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy


    graham is acting like a high school bully

    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.
     
    She did not commit fraud. She has proven she has Indian ancestry. Many Southerners do.
    , @ben tillman
    It's not fraud without damages. What are the damages?
  5. He may have trouble getting the same guy to test him. Ol’ Carlos seems to not exactly be politically neutral, judging from his starring appearance her video. Nick endorsed him as a scientist, so that part is probably OK ….

  6. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish#Black_Irish

    Black Irish is an ambiguous term sometimes used (mainly outside Ireland) as a reference to a dark-haired phenotype appearing in people of Irish origin.[36] However, dark hair in people of Irish descent is common, although darker skin complexions appear less frequently.[37] One popular speculation suggests the Black Irish are descendants of survivors of the Spanish Armada, despite research discrediting such claims.[38] In Bob Quinn’s documentary series Atlantean, he explores an alternative ‘Iberian’ hypothesis, proposing the existence of an ancient sea-trading route skirting the Atlantic coast from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula to regions such as Connemara. While preferring the term “The Atlantean Irish”, Quinn’s reference to certain phenotypical characteristics (within elements of the Irish populace and diaspora) as possible evidence of a previous Hibernian-Iberian (and possibly Berber) admixture mirrors common descriptions of the Black Irish.[39]

    • Replies: @Anon
    Wikipedia,
  7. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America."

    The Irish population in Latin America is so extremely minuscule that even Jews greatly outnumber them there.

    Nobody would ever mistake Latin America for Boston or Worcester.
  8. OT More winning
    Earlier, Senate staffer James Wolfe admitting to “lying to the FBI,” which suggests that he made a deal and is naming names.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/james-wolfe-plea-guilty-senate-intelligence-committee

    Today Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson plead the fifth before Congress.
    The Clinton campaign paid law firm Perkins Coie to pay intelligence mercenary firm Fusion GPS to pay intel merc firm Orbis to put Christopher Steele’s name on the “dossier.” If that sounds confusing, remember that this is just one group of people sitting around one table and using different company names to create the appearance of complexity, as is traditional in east coast limousine liveries.
    The dossier was actually written by Steele and members of the Clinton campaign using rumors from the internet, including informational bombs provided by 4chan. The dossier justified the FISA wiretap and never-ending investigation. This means that a political party dealt with an electoral loss by lying and having their opponent investigated as a criminal. This means people are going to prison.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/gps-founder-glenn-simpson-pleads-the-fifth-before-house-committees

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    The same tactics are being used in France against Emmanuel Macron's political opposition.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/leftist-french-leader-jean-luc-melenchon-broadcasts-police-search/
  9. Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    “Don’t hoot may cuz I’m hoootiful”

    • Replies: @donut
    Why do you keep posting pictures of this freak ?
    , @Thirdtwin
    All hail the Lord Mayor of San Antonio.
    , @gregor
    Serious gay face
    , @ben tillman

    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!
     
    I wish he'd put that hat back on!
    , @Anon
    He looks more light skinned black than Hispanic whether Spanish or Indian
    , @Jefferson
    Back when the mainstream media was in love with Julian Castro he was being called the Mexican Barack Hussein Obama.

    But now that the mainstream media's honeymoon with him is over, Julian Castro has become the Mexican Evan McMullin in that he has a zero percent chance of ever becoming POTUS.

    The ghost of Barry Goldwater has a higher chance of becoming POTUS than Julian Castro.
  10. I’m awaiting the onslaught of suggestions for Lindsey’s Indian name. “Chief Light in Loafers”? “Chief Hint of Mint?” Someone can do better, I’m sure.

    • Replies: @Gnome Sayin
    Chief Twig Bundle
    , @Kibernetika
    Featherweight?
    , @Uilleam Yr Alban
    Chief Man Appropriately Named Girl.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    "Dances with Donkeys"?
  11. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    Nah, disagree. This is brilliant. She needs to be mocked relentlessly. It would be great if ALL the GOP senators took DNA/ancestry tests and several came out as more American Indian than Warren.

    • Agree: Bubba, Lowe
    • Replies: @Gnome Sayin
    I would bet a large amount of money that the average white American has more NA ancestry than Warren.
    , @larry lurker

    It would be great if ALL the GOP senators took DNA/ancestry tests and several came out as more American Indian than Warren.
     
    Love this idea.
  12. Montgomery McBurns rolling around in his bipartisan maverick grave

  13. @Twinkie
    Nah, disagree. This is brilliant. She needs to be mocked relentlessly. It would be great if ALL the GOP senators took DNA/ancestry tests and several came out as more American Indian than Warren.

    I would bet a large amount of money that the average white American has more NA ancestry than Warren.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I would bet a large amount of money that the average white American has more NA ancestry than Warren.
     
    We don't even need all that. Just a couple of GOP senators with higher American Indian ancestry than Warren... who then get on TV and say, well, hey, I didn't get a professorship at Harvard law school and I also went to a third tier law school (or to a better law school).

    Two birds with one stone.
    , @william munny
    Razib says that the test shows she probably has an order of magnitude more Indian ancestry than an average old stock Anglo-American.

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-carries-native-american-dna-shes-running/

    But it seems that people from certain parts of the country are more likely to have some Indian background. Probably very little discernible in, say, New England, versus more in Oklahoma.
  14. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    The Duquesa Santa Ana went aground in Loughros Mor Bay near Ardara, Co. Donegal in 1588. The crew marched cross country to Killybegs to meet another ship of the Armada, the Girona.
    The Girona departed for Scotland, carrying her own crew as well as the crews of two other ships, some 1300 souls in all.
    She foundered off the coast of Antrim, leaving only 9 survivors. Not much of a genetic trace from that lot of poor unfortunates.

  15. @Harry Baldwin
    I'm awaiting the onslaught of suggestions for Lindsey's Indian name. "Chief Light in Loafers"? "Chief Hint of Mint?" Someone can do better, I'm sure.

    Chief Twig Bundle

    • LOL: Dtbb
  16. ‘I think I can beat her.’

    And yet some contend this isn’t a contest.

  17. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    The humor is the point, because it’s the humor that subconsciously drives home the belief that she’s not Indian and therefore lied. People are swayed by pathos, not moral finger-wagging.

    • Replies: @dvorak

    The humor is the point, because it’s the humor that subconsciously drives home the belief that she’s not Indian and therefore lied.
     
    Nah, the mockery is itself the point, because Liz is a humorless relentless boomer feminist like Hillary.

    Warren will have her hands full in the primaries, with competent politicians like Biden and Garcetti in the hunt.

    BTW, why hasn't iSteve done a ten part blog series on Garcetti as a presidential candidate? I rely on iSteve to give the scoop on LA, because California's present is America's future.

    Did I mention that Garcetti is Jewish? Bloomberg and Howard Schultz don't have a prayer shawl against Garcetti, who looks like a president rather than like a pencil-necked geek.

  18. bored identity is still pretty, pretty sceptical about The Last Amigo’s change of heart.

    But then again, acting suddenly like a based sh!tlord can be a powerful afrodiziac when you crawl through senatorial-midlife crisis.

    Therefore:

    https://postimg.cc/qNCTcnSx

    • Replies: @It's All Ball Bearings
    That looks like Mackenzie Phillips.
  19. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    From memory, in the articles from the Symposium on the Spanish Armada held in Ireland in 1988, only a couple of verifiable examples of survivors integrated into Irish society could be identified.

    The survivor’s tale included (as a letter from Antwerp to his home in Spain) is fascinating.

    “God’s Obvious Design” is the title of the volume.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My best friend is from an upscale Irish American family (his father dropped out of Yale to fight in WWII) and looks highly Irish. But he has a Spanish surname. The family story is it comes from a Spanish admiral of the Armada who was shipwrecked in Ireland in 1588. He didn't know whether to believe that.

    But there was a certain amount of Ireland to Spain back and forth over the centuries. In Thomas Flanagan's "Year of the French" about the Irish uprising in 1798, one set of characters are wealthy Irish Catholics in the wine trade with Spain. I think they would go to Spain when English oppression in Ireland got too bad and come home when it loosened up.

    Dr. Stephen Maturin in the O'Brian sea stories is half Irish - half Catalan.

  20. @Twinkie
    Nah, disagree. This is brilliant. She needs to be mocked relentlessly. It would be great if ALL the GOP senators took DNA/ancestry tests and several came out as more American Indian than Warren.

    It would be great if ALL the GOP senators took DNA/ancestry tests and several came out as more American Indian than Warren.

    Love this idea.

  21. anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy


    graham is acting like a high school bully

    Nah, tiny duck.

    I appreciate your performance artist tenacity, always successfully saying weirdly-accurate-in-liberal-abortion-world stupid shit that you think makes you look smart and Republicans look bad. Props, accurate little dude!

    Elizabeth Warren lied, and doubled down. That was fun to watch!

    Lindsay became a man after McCain died, maybe in a better world Lindsay would have been a warrior before becoming a Senator, but in this world, he didn’t. His “Story” is that while McCain was alive, he was all so scared to say virtuous brave things, out of faux respect for poor McCain, but now he is not so scared. It might not last, but he has had a good few weeks.

    I can be a performance artist, too, Little Duck.

    And as such let me say this – there are some real talented persistent idiots on this website, some of them suck up to Steve all the time and some of them, like you, try to criticize – to thousandfold criticize – whatever your extremely strange little brain views as Conservatism or, to be more accurate in the context of these comment thread, little ‘Duck’, Sailerism – but God gave you a fantastic gift to say the precisely wrong lazy thing about Everything you talk about! Thousands of times over and over again! You have to be a Sobran- level-smart conservative Manchurian candidate to do that, small Duck!

    It is like all the anti-American anti-democracy Soros-loving left wingers got together and tried to create you and they succeeded!

    Props, Tiny Duck, Props.

  22. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    “in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.”

    This is why we have presidents like Bush and “statesmen” like McCain. Why should we care if she did deprive an “ACTUAL” Indian? Their reaction shows they know what is at stake, their gravy train.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  23. @Tiny Duck
    Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy


    graham is acting like a high school bully

    Dude, like I thought you said you starred in Idiocracy ? And how’s your skateboardin’ with 3 wheels?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Hah! Great sign.
  24. Elizabeth Warren, who is 23% Andamanese, shared this delightful foodie anecdote in her book North Sentinel Snacks:

    Paulie was in a year for contempt and he had this wonderful system for doing the garlic. He used a razor and he used to slice it so thin that it would liquefy in the pan with just a little oil. It was a very good system

    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Vinny, don't put too many onions in the sauce!
    , @SteveRogers42
    Philly Leotardo wanted manicott'. He compromised. He ate grilled cheese off the radiator.

    You see where I'm goin' with this?
  25. @Lot
    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    "Don't hoot may cuz I'm hoootiful"

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/26/36/05/5890418/5/920x920.jpg

    Why do you keep posting pictures of this freak ?

    • Replies: @Lot
    I never have before. He kinda looks like the ebay fraud guy Mueller put away I posted a pic of a couple weeks ago.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    He could play The Joker without needing makeup.
    , @Svigor
    They're educational. I've heard the name many times, but had no idea; only now do I truly understand.
  26. @Harry Baldwin
    I'm awaiting the onslaught of suggestions for Lindsey's Indian name. "Chief Light in Loafers"? "Chief Hint of Mint?" Someone can do better, I'm sure.

    Featherweight?

  27. Democrats are the fastest growing political group in the US. They’re having more children, 50% or so younger generations are Democrats and remain so as they age, Democrats are moving to Republican dominated states and most People of Color are Liberal.

    • Replies: @Cooption
    Foreigners essentially.

    # mass immigration
  28. Associated with this whole thing is the apparent fact that American Indians (our North Americans ones), are very hesitant to take these DNA tests.

    With that fact, exactly how reliable are any of the DNA tests at finding American Indian ancestry?

    In other words, is it possible that if you had taken the DNA test, and the results said you DIDN’T have Indian ancestry, might in fact you do?

    There are a lot of tribes that are gone now. Some just gone, but others whose descendants are absorbed into whites and whatever is going on with Oklahoma reservations.

    • Replies: @Pontius
    I have verifiable 100% Native American ancestors into the 20th century and a DNA test taken by one of my nieces showed none, so I am quite skeptical as to their accuracy.
  29. Off topic –

    David “cheated on his wife with his young shiksa research assistant while writing a book called the road to character and also by the way his son serves in a foreign military” Brooks is following up with his next book called (drumroll please) The Committed Life …

    • Replies: @FO337
    They've always been pros at saying "Do what we tell you, not what we do."

    There's a word for this.... privilege I believe it is....
  30. OT

    Tech suffers from lack of humanities, says Mozilla head

    Mitchell Baker says firms should hire philosophy and psychology graduates to tackle misinformation

    Technology companies need to diversify their hiring practices to include more people from backgrounds in philosophy and psychology if they want to tackle the problem of misinformation online, the head of one of the biggest internet charities has warned.

    “But one thing that’s happened in 2018 is that we’ve looked at the platforms, and the thinking behind the platforms, and the lack of focus on impact or result. It crystallised for me that if we have Stem education without the humanities, or without ethics, or without understanding human behaviour, then we are intentionally building the next generation of technologists who have not even the framework or the education or vocabulary to think about the relationship of Stem to society or humans or life.”

    Baker is chairwoman* of the Firefox developer and its parent non-profit organisation

    * cis!

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Ok. The chairwoman can demonstrate her sincerity by re-hiring Brendan Eich. Not holding my breath here.
  31. For less than 20 billion dollars the Govt could get every citizen DNA tested. The data would be so useful.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    I don't really want Raj Chetty equivalents looking at my DNA. The gov't would have to pay me.
  32. OT
    Nigerian petrol thieves take a chance, but meet their waterloo after pipeline blast in Aba.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Nothing new. There's a long history of such incidents in Nigeria, but also other places, according to Wikipedia and other sources.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nigeria-pipeline-disasters/timeline-deadly-nigerian-pipeline-disasters-idUSL1566948020080515

  33. Kanye West on backward digit recall:

    -I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I was connected with a neuropsychologist that works with the athletes in the NBA and the NFL. And he looked at my brain — it’s equal on three parts. I’m going to go ahead drop some bombs for you — 98 percentile IQ test. I had a 75 percentile of all human beings, but it was counting eight numbers backwards, (inaudible), so I’m going to work on that one. The other ones, 98 percent — Tesla, Freud-

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
    Heh! I heard part of that interview, and was reminded of this classic scene from Vernon, FL:

    https://youtu.be/5CYcw2eqN8M
  34. OT I have no explanation yet but YouTube appears to be suffering a global outage. Rumor: DDoS attack. If that turns out to be correct it raises the question of who is big enough (and no, the Russian government is probably not able to do this. YouTube is enormous). Another rumor, surely not true, is that they’re pursuing an aggressive purge, but they would never make this much noise, they woud just pull people quietly.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    Maybe they just messed up their server software somehow.
  35. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    ‘Senator One One-Thousandth.’

  36. Hey Steve , have you ever seen “The Lost Room” ? It’s very good and you might like it . And others here might as well .

  37. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    A group of the Celts most likely came from Northern Spain, traveled up the French Coast (Brittany, a Celtic region) and then landed in what is today Wales and Ireland–which accounts for the genetics being similar. It was faster travel, and “closer” than land travel. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic and even have bagpipes, not to mention very similar phenotypes.

    • Replies: @Peter Lund
    *All* of Europe had bagpipes.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    There was actually a diocese of the Catholic Church in Galicia called Britonia, because the area was settled by Britons after the Saxon invasions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britonia

    Northern Spain (Asturias/Galicia especially) has a Celtic vibe - cider drinkers and bagpipe players. Lovely place, very different to the south where most Brit tourists go. And the Picos de Europa in Cantabria are terrific.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgofY_FH16Y

    , @stillCARealist
    And the Spanish are Celtic!

    Heck, aren't we all Latino? I mean, the Romans invaded Britain and occupied it. If i have English ancestry, then I must be part Latin, right?
    , @Anon
    3,000 years before the Armada
  38. OT: Show on PBS at this moment on eugenics. Some of it sounds kinda topical.

  39. @Tiny Duck
    Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy


    graham is acting like a high school bully

    graham is acting like a high school bully

    Because boys don’t hit girls, or even hurt their feelings.

    I remember those playground rules from a half-century ago. Glad to see someone else keeping them alive.

    • Replies: @Song For the Deaf
    Because high school bullies go around getting DNA tests to make girls feel bad.
    , @Svigor
    Think I might start ignoring the people who quote him, too.
  40. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    Mother’s family name on both sides in Leitrim on the northeast coast of Ireland was Reynolds. Some claim it was a play on “Reynos”, Spanish for the king’s men, from a group of Armada survivors who became part of the community. Though there are other instances of that name appearing in the UK that have nothing to do with the wreck of the Armada.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Others claim the name Reynolds comes from Swiss soldiers in William the conquerors army. It’s as much BS as the Spanish Armada soldiers.

    From ancient times there was s lot . of trade between Iberia N Africa and the British Isles, water transport being easier than land.
  41. @Reg Cæsar

    graham is acting like a high school bully
     
    Because boys don't hit girls, or even hurt their feelings.

    I remember those playground rules from a half-century ago. Glad to see someone else keeping them alive.

    Because high school bullies go around getting DNA tests to make girls feel bad.

  42. Don’t get too excited about Lindsey yet. He still has not shown he is on our side on the biggest issue that we face, immigration.

    According to Fox, Graham wants to grant DACA amnesty for a wall.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Someone needs to remind Lindsey of what he said during the Kavanaugh hearings about how the Left must never get power -- and then explain to him very slowly that a DACA amnesty will do exactly that.
    , @Charles Pewitt
    Lindsey Graham was a rabid supporter of the Rubio-Obama Illegal Alien Amnesty -- Mass Immigration Surge bill(S 744) of June of 2013.

    Lindsey Graham's immigration bill(S 744) would have doubled or tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders.

    US House Speaker at the time, Boehner, killed the Lindsey Graham immigration bill(S 744) in the US House in order to prevent a bloody civil war in the GOP over immigration.

    Lindsey Graham Is A Treasonous Politician Whore.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Graham is currently training with myself and other gay reactionary bodybuilders. I think once we get him deadlifting four plates he'll want to go down there and build that wall himself.

    Paradigms, like physiques, take time to grow and develop.

  43. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    Whites should en masse misrepresent their “race” for spoils purposes, given that those most interested in racial spoils also claim race does not exist. On that score Warren did nothing wrong.

    Her wrong is that she is a consistent hypocrite, both regarding racial spoils for her *electoral supporters* and regarding house flippers when she, herself, repeatedly flipped houses for profit.

  44. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don’t find any evidence–or claims by people who could know–that she received her positions because of “being a minority.”

    What is true is that the very vocal denial by everyone that she received AA benefits should work to counter the impression she is trying to create of being a minority.

    The vocal denials also appear to undercut AA per se, much as her genetic testing undercuts “race is a social construct.” Harvard professors: “Benefitted from AA? No! Never! How could you think that?!”

    • Replies: @Svigor
    The one is more than enough appearance of impropriety for the other.
    , @Anonymous
    Why would Warren be any less deserving of AA benefits than any other "minority"?
    , @HEL

    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don’t find any evidence–or claims by people who could know–that she received her positions because of “being a minority.”
     
    The disparity between her educational background and her positions later held provides decent evidence that she was hired for diversity purposes. Warren went to Rutgers law school. I can't find any rankings from the 70s, but Rutgers sure as hell isn't an elite law school now. If it ever was one I can't find any evidence of it. It's usually ranked somewhere between 40-70 nowadays. She somehow leveraged this middling background into positions with Penn, a traditional elite school, and then Harvard, one of the tiny handful of the very best schools. It looks weird.

    I went to a second tier law school, though one typically ranked well ahead of Rutgers. I do not recall a single professor having attended a law school of a clearly lower rank than the one they were currently teaching at. The clear majority had gone to a superior school, though, and many had attended one of the very few best ones. In short, moving up the ranks appears to be tough. Unsurprisingly.

    Obviously this is far from definitive. My experience was in recent memory, whereas Warren went to school in the 70s. Perhaps people were less obsessed with academic background then, and maybe it was more common for truly elite students not to end up at the non-elite universities. I dunno anything about her professional career, maybe she really did prove herself to be on the level expected at Harvard.

    Or maybe she got a leg up exploiting her phony background.

  45. @Harry Baldwin
    I'm awaiting the onslaught of suggestions for Lindsey's Indian name. "Chief Light in Loafers"? "Chief Hint of Mint?" Someone can do better, I'm sure.

    Chief Man Appropriately Named Girl.

  46. @Harry Baldwin
    I'm awaiting the onslaught of suggestions for Lindsey's Indian name. "Chief Light in Loafers"? "Chief Hint of Mint?" Someone can do better, I'm sure.

    “Dances with Donkeys”?

  47. ‘I’ve been told my grandmother was part Cherokee Indian. It may all just be talk…. I think I can beat her.’

    Ladies just cannot stop competing, can they?

    Seriously, I think this is a stupid stunt by Graham. The message he seems to be sending is that she has so little, anyone might have more. But that’s not true.
    He has no DNA: public thinks, “why did he pull that stunt? she does, he doesn’t… weirdo!”
    He has less DNA: Doh! public: Loser!
    He has more DNA: public: Graham and Warren are cousins! How can he mistreat her?

    • Replies: @Svigor
    He has less: public laughs, claps Lyndsie on the back, tells him "nice try."
    He has more: public laughs uproariously, Fauxcahontas never lives it down, as long as she lives.

    Truth is he's already won.
    , @Jack Hanson
    The only way for Warren to draw even was not to play.

    Graham isn't in the same boat as she was. Personally him being 10% black along with 1% NA would be hilarious.
  48. Check your NPC DNA, Lindsey. Up until a month ago, I’d have sworn it was about 85%.

  49. OT The Supreme Court has agreed to decide whether Twitter, FaceZuck, YouTube, etc can censor their users.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/supreme-court-case-could-decide-fb-twitter-power-to-regulate-speech.html

    On its face, the case has nothing to do with social media at all. Rather, the facts of the case concern public access television, and two producers who claim they were punished for expressing their political views. The producers, DeeDee Halleck and Jesus Melendez, say that Manhattan Neighborhood Network suspended them for expressing views that were critical of the network.
    In making the argument to the justices that the case was worthy of review, attorneys for MNN said the court could use the case to resolve a lingering dispute over the power of social media companies to regulate the content on their platforms.
    While the First Amendment is meant to protect citizens against government attempts to limit speech, there are certain situations in which private companies can be subject to First Amendment liability. Attorneys for MNN have made the case that social media companies are clearly not government actors. But in raising the question, they have provided the Supreme Court an opportunity to weigh in.

  50. @Tiny Duck
    Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy


    graham is acting like a high school bully

    She’s fair game, she’s running for president and she did something really stupid in her past by claiming minority status for career advancement. Her remarkably foolish efforts to fix it by releasing her DNA test are making it far worse than if she had not addressed it. Instead, she set herself up for being skewered by a grandstanding stunt like Lindsey Graham’s.

    So you see, turning the country into an idiocracy has strong support across the aisle.

  51. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    You contradicted yourself.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn't make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won't be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else. You might reconsider running for office, too, if you had that in mind.

    The Fauxahontas angle on Warren is devastatingly bad for her presidential aspirations. Her advisers are making the right move, getting everything in the open now. Try to talk it to death in advance. If this is still a discussion point by the time primary debates start, she's done. That's how bad cheating affirmative action is.
    , @GW
    You make your enemy play by his rules. Yes, affirmative action is evil and should be opposed. But Warren should be held to the standard her side implemented on all of us.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Bem Tillman wrote:

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them.
     
    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don't.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    We do not need to play the Left's tribalist game of our skin color vs. their skin color. We can stand for justice.

    As alien as that concept might seem in 2018.
    , @Anonymous
    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    This.

    Not only was she both truthful and helpful to her fellow Whites, but Whites with Indian ancestry such as Warren, Southerners, and Scots Irish, are underrepresented in academia.
  52. OT Inequality. A martial arts instructor decides to throw a punch in a dispute over a magical chicken that lays golden eggs, grants wishes, and speaks Finnish, of which there is only one in the world. No, wait a minute, the fight was over a parking space. The guy that the martial arts instructor started a fight with is enormous, and has no compunction about hitting a girl.

    https://www.breitbart.com/border/2018/10/16/watch-texas-man-beats-petite-woman-in-parking-spot-dispute/

    • Replies: @FO337
    So many girls have needed that, and yet I could never bring myself to do it.

    I guess they really do do the jobs we Americans won't.

  53. @istevefan
    Don't get too excited about Lindsey yet. He still has not shown he is on our side on the biggest issue that we face, immigration.

    According to Fox, Graham wants to grant DACA amnesty for a wall.
    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1052182377533865984

    Someone needs to remind Lindsey of what he said during the Kavanaugh hearings about how the Left must never get power — and then explain to him very slowly that a DACA amnesty will do exactly that.

    • Agree: Percy Gryce
  54. @ben tillman

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    You contradicted yourself.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn’t make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won’t be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else. You might reconsider running for office, too, if you had that in mind.

    The Fauxahontas angle on Warren is devastatingly bad for her presidential aspirations. Her advisers are making the right move, getting everything in the open now. Try to talk it to death in advance. If this is still a discussion point by the time primary debates start, she’s done. That’s how bad cheating affirmative action is.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    She’s toast. Can’t win D nomination without blacks (see Sanders, B.) and blacks are tired of Beckys cutting in on their AA already. A white Becky double-dipping by pretending to be of color?

    Oh Hell no!
    , @Anonymous

    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn’t make scamming it right.
     
    It doesn't? It is generally accepted that negating a scam is a morally okay thing to do.
    , @ben tillman

    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn’t make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won’t be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else.
     
    I can't imagine an argument that "scamming" it is wrong. People have a duty to acquiesce in their oppression? What one produces belongs to someone else? Let's hear your argument. It should be fascinating.

    By the way, I'm not interested in "praise", but I don't think your position has the support you presume it does.
    , @Svigor
    Scamming it isn't wrong, either. Cheating at a rigged game is morally neutral. If anything, following the rules of a rigged game is immoral because it promotes and legitimizes rigged games.

    Warren's violation is one of hypocrisy; she's violated a leftist value (follow the rules of the rigged, anti-white game).

    None of this applies to those of us on the right who don't advocate those rules, never mind those of us who loudly oppose them. For the latter, scamming affirmative action is a mitzvah.

  55. @ben tillman

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    You contradicted yourself.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    You make your enemy play by his rules. Yes, affirmative action is evil and should be opposed. But Warren should be held to the standard her side implemented on all of us.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You make your enemy play by his rules.
     
    1. How are you going to make him do anything when you don’t have the megaphone? How are you going to compel him? You can’t shame the shameless. Alinsky’s techniques work for the shameless who seek to overthrow the decent.

    2. Besides, you don’t want him to behave honorably. Do you want the public at large to like him more? No, you make him behave ever more dishonorably, capriciously, and malevolently. You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we - the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle - are.
    , @Anonymous

    You make your enemy play by his rules. Yes, affirmative action is evil and should be opposed. But Warren should be held to the standard her side implemented on all of us.
     
    You have it backwards. Making the enemy play by his rules would mean accepting Warren as Indian because of her now proven Indian ancestry.
  56. @Bliss
    For less than 20 billion dollars the Govt could get every citizen DNA tested. The data would be so useful.

    I don’t really want Raj Chetty equivalents looking at my DNA. The gov’t would have to pay me.

  57. @Cortes
    From memory, in the articles from the Symposium on the Spanish Armada held in Ireland in 1988, only a couple of verifiable examples of survivors integrated into Irish society could be identified.

    The survivor’s tale included (as a letter from Antwerp to his home in Spain) is fascinating.

    “God’s Obvious Design” is the title of the volume.

    My best friend is from an upscale Irish American family (his father dropped out of Yale to fight in WWII) and looks highly Irish. But he has a Spanish surname. The family story is it comes from a Spanish admiral of the Armada who was shipwrecked in Ireland in 1588. He didn’t know whether to believe that.

    But there was a certain amount of Ireland to Spain back and forth over the centuries. In Thomas Flanagan’s “Year of the French” about the Irish uprising in 1798, one set of characters are wealthy Irish Catholics in the wine trade with Spain. I think they would go to Spain when English oppression in Ireland got too bad and come home when it loosened up.

    Dr. Stephen Maturin in the O’Brian sea stories is half Irish – half Catalan.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    A Irishman only in name:

    The novelist Patrick O'Brian of sea stories fame was born Richard Patrick Russ in England with an English physician father of German descent and an English mother of Irish descent.
    , @J.Ross
    I see that this sub-discussion isn't going away, so I will put in my conviction by Cecil Adams of the Straight Dope newspaper feature that it almost certainly is not true. Relying on Adams:
    There are several points of connection and they usually come with reasons to dismiss them.
    Irish do come "from Spain" mythologically and in the sense of the ancient Celtic expansion. However, this would predate Spanish names, and conceptions of Spanishness.
    There are names that resemble Spanish language tendencies but have separate explanations.
    At the time of the Armada the Spaniards were a civilization-defining world power and the Irish were ... not. There are written records of one Spaniard whose Irish rescuer all but forced his colleen on him and, contrary to the Spanish stereotype, the record suggests that nothing happened, and he got out of there as soon as he could.
    A lot of Armada Spaniards died and those that did not were not very well treated.
    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries; there were also individual cases of immigration. This was rare though.
    , @Hank Yobo
    The Wild Geese

    https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/03/14/the-wild-geese-a-brief-history-irelands-foreign-armies/
    , @gsjackson
    I had always thought that the Armada diaspora was where the 'black Irish' came from.
  58. @J.Ross
    OT I have no explanation yet but YouTube appears to be suffering a global outage. Rumor: DDoS attack. If that turns out to be correct it raises the question of who is big enough (and no, the Russian government is probably not able to do this. YouTube is enormous). Another rumor, surely not true, is that they're pursuing an aggressive purge, but they would never make this much noise, they woud just pull people quietly.

    Maybe they just messed up their server software somehow.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    It's YouTube, could they really be so clumsy?
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Nah. It's those tiny chips the ChiComms slipped onto all the server boards.
  59. There is a family story about us being part Abenaki. But if I get my genome sequenced could I find that I have an ethnic duty to fight the Iroqouis and Mikmacs ?

  60. @GW
    You make your enemy play by his rules. Yes, affirmative action is evil and should be opposed. But Warren should be held to the standard her side implemented on all of us.

    You make your enemy play by his rules.

    1. How are you going to make him do anything when you don’t have the megaphone? How are you going to compel him? You can’t shame the shameless. Alinsky’s techniques work for the shameless who seek to overthrow the decent.

    2. Besides, you don’t want him to behave honorably. Do you want the public at large to like him more? No, you make him behave ever more dishonorably, capriciously, and malevolently. You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we – the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle – are.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Twinkie wrote to GW:

    You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we – the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle – are.
     
    Twinkie, with all due respect, I think you misunderstand GW. The principle that you make your enemy play by his own rules really means that you publicly demand that he do so, so that, if he behaves hypocritically, you can expose him for what he is.

    I.e., I don't think you and GW are really disagreeing here.
    , @GW
    Watch what's happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered "Pocahontas" and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test), and is now getting it from all sides; mainstream Republicans, actual Cherokees, even the media to some degree. This is precisely the type of pressure and hysteria a conservative who transgressed some racial taboo would be facing. Does anyone think Miss 1/1,024 has any chance of mounting a serious presidential campaign now? She's become a walking meme. Thanks to Trump and others on the Right holding her to liberal standards.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    when you don’t have the megaphone
     
    Twinkie, you ordered one megaphone, extra sauce?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052387851088867330

    You can’t shame the shameless.
     
    Yes and no. Alinsky’s ‘rules’ can be modified, just like any other rules. Exposing hypocrisy in one’s enemies need not induce in them “shame” (how Oriental! gonnngggg)—instead, relentlessly discrediting the pretentiously pious can be enough for peacetime political purposes. Trump doesn’t scold like a schoolmarm—he instead makes the hypocrites into ridiculous figures of fun. This causes major damage to the viability of his targets.

    They, in turn, are initially held back by a reflexive twinge of “shame”—call it residual false propriety—where they are by nature reluctant to get fully into the ‘dirt’ and hit him back personally in the same way. And part of what holds them back is they either have no real convictions, or their convictions are truly spiteful, and they want to avoid saying what they really believe. Trump is a genius at getting the sputterers to spitefully spit.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/258584864163500033
  61. @ben tillman

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    You contradicted yourself.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    Bem Tillman wrote:

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them.

    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don’t.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    We do not need to play the Left’s tribalist game of our skin color vs. their skin color. We can stand for justice.

    As alien as that concept might seem in 2018.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.
     
    She didn't "pretend" to be Amerindian. She is in fact of Amerindian descent. If an Amerindian deserved it, she deserved it.

    And that's setting aside your questionable claim that anyone "deserves" a position because he or she is Amerindian or Black.

    , @ben tillman

    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don’t.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.
     
    But she would have opened up a slot for someone who did deserve it.
    , @Svigor
    And if someone got the position because he genuinely was Amerindian, he didn't deserve it.

    We need to be clear on this: you're complaining that someone undeserving got rewarded in a system designed to reward the undeserving.

    Conservatives really have a lot of shitty takes.


    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites.
     
    For you. Not the issue, for you. For non-whites it is. For pro-whites it is.
  62. @Lot
    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    "Don't hoot may cuz I'm hoootiful"

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/26/36/05/5890418/5/920x920.jpg

    All hail the Lord Mayor of San Antonio.

  63. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    … trolling her, it’s not the point.

    have u learned nothing

  64. @Twinkie

    You make your enemy play by his rules.
     
    1. How are you going to make him do anything when you don’t have the megaphone? How are you going to compel him? You can’t shame the shameless. Alinsky’s techniques work for the shameless who seek to overthrow the decent.

    2. Besides, you don’t want him to behave honorably. Do you want the public at large to like him more? No, you make him behave ever more dishonorably, capriciously, and malevolently. You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we - the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle - are.

    Twinkie wrote to GW:

    You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we – the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle – are.

    Twinkie, with all due respect, I think you misunderstand GW. The principle that you make your enemy play by his own rules really means that you publicly demand that he do so, so that, if he behaves hypocritically, you can expose him for what he is.

    I.e., I don’t think you and GW are really disagreeing here.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The principle that you make your enemy play by his own rules really means that you publicly demand that he do so, so that, if he behaves hypocritically, you can expose him for what he is.
     
    I understood what he meant. There is a problem with this strategy, though. What if the enemy does - actually driven by shame, honor, cold calculation, change of strategy, or what have you - conform to his own rules? Now a part of the public will be convinced that he is actually virtuous (he keeps his words!) and we are all still left with a situation in which he sets the rules and the terms of how the war is to be waged.

    What I want, instead, is to create provocations that are so juicy and tempting that the other side has to, just has to, retaliate in an overwhelming manner (rather akin to assassinations of high value targets bringing repressive reprisals against the civilian population, which further alienates the latter into supporting us).

    I must admit that Trump is doing a rather good job on this. The whole Pocahontas and DNA test bit was very well-played.
  65. @Iberiano
    A group of the Celts most likely came from Northern Spain, traveled up the French Coast (Brittany, a Celtic region) and then landed in what is today Wales and Ireland--which accounts for the genetics being similar. It was faster travel, and "closer" than land travel. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic and even have bagpipes, not to mention very similar phenotypes.

    *All* of Europe had bagpipes.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    Ah, but only the Highland Scots could transform it into the majestic instrument it is today.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ojD3_QKFTg
    , @Anon
    True. The English suppressed them in Scotland and Ireland also the Irish harp.
  66. @Lowe
    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn't make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won't be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else. You might reconsider running for office, too, if you had that in mind.

    The Fauxahontas angle on Warren is devastatingly bad for her presidential aspirations. Her advisers are making the right move, getting everything in the open now. Try to talk it to death in advance. If this is still a discussion point by the time primary debates start, she's done. That's how bad cheating affirmative action is.

    She’s toast. Can’t win D nomination without blacks (see Sanders, B.) and blacks are tired of Beckys cutting in on their AA already. A white Becky double-dipping by pretending to be of color?

    Oh Hell no!

    • Replies: @Song For the Deaf
    Yep. Kamala’s going to get the nomination in 2020. They have nobody else and she’s an affirmative action dream.

    We just have to be welcoming to all the white women who will be fleeing the Dems as their black and brown constituents take her nomination as carte blanche to let fly with their racist contempt for Beckies.
    , @Anonymous
    Do you really think that Blacks care about affirmative action for Indians?
    , @Le Autiste Corv
    She won't do this,

    but the correct move would be to have allies attack the Cherokees for contesting blacks on the tribal rolls. The point would be to maintain plausible deniability.

  67. @J.Ross
    OT More winning
    Earlier, Senate staffer James Wolfe admitting to "lying to the FBI," which suggests that he made a deal and is naming names.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/james-wolfe-plea-guilty-senate-intelligence-committee

    Today Fusion GPS founder Glenn Simpson plead the fifth before Congress.
    The Clinton campaign paid law firm Perkins Coie to pay intelligence mercenary firm Fusion GPS to pay intel merc firm Orbis to put Christopher Steele's name on the "dossier." If that sounds confusing, remember that this is just one group of people sitting around one table and using different company names to create the appearance of complexity, as is traditional in east coast limousine liveries.
    The dossier was actually written by Steele and members of the Clinton campaign using rumors from the internet, including informational bombs provided by 4chan. The dossier justified the FISA wiretap and never-ending investigation. This means that a political party dealt with an electoral loss by lying and having their opponent investigated as a criminal. This means people are going to prison.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/gps-founder-glenn-simpson-pleads-the-fifth-before-house-committees

    The same tactics are being used in France against Emmanuel Macron’s political opposition.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/leftist-french-leader-jean-luc-melenchon-broadcasts-police-search/

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    It'd be interesting to know if the Netanyahu family's constant legal trouble was similar.
  68. @Lot
    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    "Don't hoot may cuz I'm hoootiful"

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/26/36/05/5890418/5/920x920.jpg

    Serious gay face

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Serious gay face
     
    Now that's an oxymoron if there ever was one.
  69. “Or trading out of Galway into Spain”
    – WB Yeats

    The Milesians, the Celtiberian invading force which conquered Ireland from its earlier inhabitants (the Fomorii IIRC?), were indeed from Spain. The common Celtic phenotype is: jet-black hair and very bright blue eyes. The red hair comes from the Danish/Norse/Viking invasions and subsequent interbreeding.

    Both my parents are Irish: my father, from West, (viz. far away from the Norse) your classic “Black Irish” Celt. My mother, from north of Dublin, (which was founded by the Norse), extremely fair and tall, with grey eyes. Her father and her grandfather both looked like Max Von Sydow.

    Me, I look like Sun Yat-sen for some reason. Life’s a bitch.

    • LOL: Romanian
  70. @Steve Sailer
    My best friend is from an upscale Irish American family (his father dropped out of Yale to fight in WWII) and looks highly Irish. But he has a Spanish surname. The family story is it comes from a Spanish admiral of the Armada who was shipwrecked in Ireland in 1588. He didn't know whether to believe that.

    But there was a certain amount of Ireland to Spain back and forth over the centuries. In Thomas Flanagan's "Year of the French" about the Irish uprising in 1798, one set of characters are wealthy Irish Catholics in the wine trade with Spain. I think they would go to Spain when English oppression in Ireland got too bad and come home when it loosened up.

    Dr. Stephen Maturin in the O'Brian sea stories is half Irish - half Catalan.

    A Irishman only in name:

    The novelist Patrick O’Brian of sea stories fame was born Richard Patrick Russ in England with an English physician father of German descent and an English mother of Irish descent.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The novelist Patrick O’Brian of sea stories fame was born Richard Patrick Russ...
     
    I always thought that spelling looked fake.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Also, Patrick O'Brian was a bad sailor, according to a millionaire fan who invited him out on his yacht.

    But he was a pretty good writer.

  71. • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    Lindsey Graham has never stopped pushing for amnesty for illegal alien invaders.

    Lindsey Graham has never stopped pushing for massive increases in legal immigration.
  72. @Twinkie

    You make your enemy play by his rules.
     
    1. How are you going to make him do anything when you don’t have the megaphone? How are you going to compel him? You can’t shame the shameless. Alinsky’s techniques work for the shameless who seek to overthrow the decent.

    2. Besides, you don’t want him to behave honorably. Do you want the public at large to like him more? No, you make him behave ever more dishonorably, capriciously, and malevolently. You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we - the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle - are.

    Watch what’s happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered “Pocahontas” and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test), and is now getting it from all sides; mainstream Republicans, actual Cherokees, even the media to some degree. This is precisely the type of pressure and hysteria a conservative who transgressed some racial taboo would be facing. Does anyone think Miss 1/1,024 has any chance of mounting a serious presidential campaign now? She’s become a walking meme. Thanks to Trump and others on the Right holding her to liberal standards.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Watch what’s happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered “Pocahontas” and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test)
     
    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.
  73. @Hippopotamusdrome
    OT
    Nigerian petrol thieves take a chance, but meet their waterloo after pipeline blast in Aba.

    Nothing new. There’s a long history of such incidents in Nigeria, but also other places, according to Wikipedia and other sources.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nigeria-pipeline-disasters/timeline-deadly-nigerian-pipeline-disasters-idUSL1566948020080515

  74. @gregor
    Serious gay face

    Serious gay face

    Now that’s an oxymoron if there ever was one.

  75. @Dan Hayes
    A Irishman only in name:

    The novelist Patrick O'Brian of sea stories fame was born Richard Patrick Russ in England with an English physician father of German descent and an English mother of Irish descent.

    The novelist Patrick O’Brian of sea stories fame was born Richard Patrick Russ…

    I always thought that spelling looked fake.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  76. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    My Intro to Philosophy professor really takes the cake in terms of Rube Goldberg Machine minority ancestry speculation.

    He might look like a regular white guy, but actually he’s part black. How can this be, you ask? Well, he’s Irish, and part of the Spanish Armada got blown off course to Ireland, and there were Moorish crew members of the Armada, and the locals obviously welcomed and intermarried with the Spaniards, so…hesto presto, he’s actually part black!

    (Let it be noted that I have found the professor in question to be generally quite charming and engaging as an instructor, and I think he is quite apt at teaching the material at a level suitable for the median student. [I'm taking the class to round out my credits/as a lark.])

    • Replies: @Anon
    1 The last of the moors were kicked out of Spain 96 years before the Armada.
    2 The very few Armada crew who landed were quickly captured and sent to England and back to Spain
  77. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    It was long believed that Vicente Fox’s grandfather was Irish, but apparently he was of Germanic heritage, and Anglicized his last name from “Fuchs” to “Fox.”

  78. @Steve Sailer
    My best friend is from an upscale Irish American family (his father dropped out of Yale to fight in WWII) and looks highly Irish. But he has a Spanish surname. The family story is it comes from a Spanish admiral of the Armada who was shipwrecked in Ireland in 1588. He didn't know whether to believe that.

    But there was a certain amount of Ireland to Spain back and forth over the centuries. In Thomas Flanagan's "Year of the French" about the Irish uprising in 1798, one set of characters are wealthy Irish Catholics in the wine trade with Spain. I think they would go to Spain when English oppression in Ireland got too bad and come home when it loosened up.

    Dr. Stephen Maturin in the O'Brian sea stories is half Irish - half Catalan.

    I see that this sub-discussion isn’t going away, so I will put in my conviction by Cecil Adams of the Straight Dope newspaper feature that it almost certainly is not true. Relying on Adams:
    There are several points of connection and they usually come with reasons to dismiss them.
    Irish do come “from Spain” mythologically and in the sense of the ancient Celtic expansion. However, this would predate Spanish names, and conceptions of Spanishness.
    There are names that resemble Spanish language tendencies but have separate explanations.
    At the time of the Armada the Spaniards were a civilization-defining world power and the Irish were … not. There are written records of one Spaniard whose Irish rescuer all but forced his colleen on him and, contrary to the Spanish stereotype, the record suggests that nothing happened, and he got out of there as soon as he could.
    A lot of Armada Spaniards died and those that did not were not very well treated.
    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries; there were also individual cases of immigration. This was rare though.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.
    , @Anonymous

    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries;
     
    How is this relevant to the discussion?
  79. @Diversity Heretic
    The same tactics are being used in France against Emmanuel Macron's political opposition.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/leftist-french-leader-jean-luc-melenchon-broadcasts-police-search/

    It’d be interesting to know if the Netanyahu family’s constant legal trouble was similar.

  80. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    Use the famous Iron Eyes Cody pollution commercial, another famous fake Indian, juxtaposed somehow to her video.

  81. The only thing standing between the present fad for lunacy and chaos is the common sense of the white man . Present company excepted .

  82. OT

    UK “Conservatives”

    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/Catsplaining/status/1051854212278104066
    , @FO337
    Also, if you read websites like this one, you're going to prison.
    But what's the harm in that?
  83. @Lowe
    Maybe they just messed up their server software somehow.

    It’s YouTube, could they really be so clumsy?

  84. @eah
    OT

    UK "Conservatives"

    https://i.postimg.cc/tRf3Lr4D/Conservatives-UK.jpg

    • Replies: @eah
    We can't have that.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpml_RYUcAA-8Zn.jpg
    , @J.Ross
    White genocide isn't happening and people who bring it up are stupid and insensitive.
    But at the same time, yeah, white genocide's totally happening, And That's A Good Thing.
  85. @Twinkie

    You make your enemy play by his rules.
     
    1. How are you going to make him do anything when you don’t have the megaphone? How are you going to compel him? You can’t shame the shameless. Alinsky’s techniques work for the shameless who seek to overthrow the decent.

    2. Besides, you don’t want him to behave honorably. Do you want the public at large to like him more? No, you make him behave ever more dishonorably, capriciously, and malevolently. You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we - the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle - are.

    when you don’t have the megaphone

    Twinkie, you ordered one megaphone, extra sauce?

    You can’t shame the shameless.

    Yes and no. Alinsky’s ‘rules’ can be modified, just like any other rules. Exposing hypocrisy in one’s enemies need not induce in them “shame” (how Oriental! gonnngggg)—instead, relentlessly discrediting the pretentiously pious can be enough for peacetime political purposes. Trump doesn’t scold like a schoolmarm—he instead makes the hypocrites into ridiculous figures of fun. This causes major damage to the viability of his targets.

    They, in turn, are initially held back by a reflexive twinge of “shame”—call it residual false propriety—where they are by nature reluctant to get fully into the ‘dirt’ and hit him back personally in the same way. And part of what holds them back is they either have no real convictions, or their convictions are truly spiteful, and they want to avoid saying what they really believe. Trump is a genius at getting the sputterers to spitefully spit.

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I'm dead at the gong reference.
  86. @TelfoedJohn
    Elizabeth Warren, who is 23% Andamanese, shared this delightful foodie anecdote in her book North Sentinel Snacks:

    Paulie was in a year for contempt and he had this wonderful system for doing the garlic. He used a razor and he used to slice it so thin that it would liquefy in the pan with just a little oil. It was a very good system

     

    Vinny, don’t put too many onions in the sauce!

  87. @J.Ross
    I see that this sub-discussion isn't going away, so I will put in my conviction by Cecil Adams of the Straight Dope newspaper feature that it almost certainly is not true. Relying on Adams:
    There are several points of connection and they usually come with reasons to dismiss them.
    Irish do come "from Spain" mythologically and in the sense of the ancient Celtic expansion. However, this would predate Spanish names, and conceptions of Spanishness.
    There are names that resemble Spanish language tendencies but have separate explanations.
    At the time of the Armada the Spaniards were a civilization-defining world power and the Irish were ... not. There are written records of one Spaniard whose Irish rescuer all but forced his colleen on him and, contrary to the Spanish stereotype, the record suggests that nothing happened, and he got out of there as soon as he could.
    A lot of Armada Spaniards died and those that did not were not very well treated.
    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries; there were also individual cases of immigration. This was rare though.

    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn’t uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Why do men migrate from MENA today? Women.
    Thing for redheads?
    , @J.Ross
    I believe the example Adams gives of immigration (as a rule-proving exception) was a merchant who had money, connections, was always there anyway, and was definitely in a city. But he was almost a one-off. I'll check when I can.
    , @Percy Gryce
    My favorite Ibero-Hibernian is the late Spanish Jesuit papyrologist José O'Callaghan Martínez:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_O%27Callaghan_Mart%C3%ADnez
    , @Desiderius
    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.
    , @whorefinder
    There was long a historical alliance between Spain and Ireland against England, much like the more famous alliance between France and Scotland against England (The "Auld Alliance", as the latter was called).

    Remember that, during the English Civil War period, the Irish rose up in rebellion, and used Spanish mercenaries and equipment. Heck, almost whenever the Irish were rising in rebellion against English rule in an organized fashion, the Spanish were on hand. Plus the Church probably wanted loyal, powerful Spain to keep Ireland supplied with priests and church funds to keep them from going Protestant at England's heavy demand.

    So it's quite likely Spanish troops and government agents took a a liking to the place and a local wife in the process. No different than today when some American troops abroad take Korean, Japanese, and German wives and end up staying there (after the tour of duty is over) after being first stationed in those countries.

    , @Lot
    In Éamon de Valera's case, he was a half-Spanish Irishman sired in New York City and raised by his Irish grandmother.
    , @Cortes
    Basil Cottle, in his great books “Names” and “The Penguin Dictionary of British Surnames”, made the point that sometimes “place name” surname conferral derives from the first bearer having bored the hell out of his acquaintances with tales of the wonders he saw, the beautiful women he tupped and the fights he won in the mighty city or land of xxxxxx as a young man. So, a “Spanish” surname may be a similar, disguised nickname.
    Second only to Tir nan Og (the Land of Youth) in Irish folklore I’ve read is the notion that Spain was seen as an earthly paradise. And ?J. Ross’s point in an earlier comment about the gross disparity between Spain and the west coast of Ireland is correct. Cuéllar, the survivor whose account I mentioned, was stripped naked by the first locals who encountered him in Connacht. The immiserated peasants of Connacht (recall the expression “To Hell, or to Connacht “?) took full advantage of their “windfall.” Only the fittest, like Cuéllar, could possibly survive autumn in western Ireland travelling north naked (for at least a couple of days) until hooking up with a friendly local noble who arranged transport to the Orkneys and thence to Antwerp.
    It may be worth mentioning that one of the classic Irish surnames, Gallagher, actually derives from the Irish for “descendant of foreign worker” but “foreign” is too imprecise to be really helpful, although it’s most common in NW Ireland (Mayo to Donegal).
    , @Anonymous

    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed.
     
    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?
  88. @eah
    https://twitter.com/Catsplaining/status/1051854212278104066

    We can’t have that.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    "primarily benefit"

    Er, because there are more whites than Asians in the U.S.? Why would that be wrong?

    Is it me or suddenly in the mainstream media, there is all kinds of pushing of trophies for Asians?

    I almost get the sense that a certain group of elites is getting a tad nervous that Asians might defect from the Coalition of the Fringes and start making a common cause with - gasp! - Christian whites. Feels a little bit like those in power are doling out a bit of cookie crumbs for Asians to butter them up into not defecting from the Coalition - "Look, look, don't go now! You are about to be recognized as a valuable player in our team! You are about to get your due!"
    , @FO337
    At least they're "honest" (sort of) about why they oppose it.
    , @Redneck farmer
    So pasty-faced ACLU members don't consider themselves white?
    , @L Woods
    Jesus Christ. The turpitude of these ‘people’ knows no bounds.
  89. @PhysicistDave
    Twinkie wrote to GW:

    You want the public to be so disgusted by him that it turns into a vast sea for the fish that we – the insurgents, the guerillas, the weaker side in this battle – are.
     
    Twinkie, with all due respect, I think you misunderstand GW. The principle that you make your enemy play by his own rules really means that you publicly demand that he do so, so that, if he behaves hypocritically, you can expose him for what he is.

    I.e., I don't think you and GW are really disagreeing here.

    The principle that you make your enemy play by his own rules really means that you publicly demand that he do so, so that, if he behaves hypocritically, you can expose him for what he is.

    I understood what he meant. There is a problem with this strategy, though. What if the enemy does – actually driven by shame, honor, cold calculation, change of strategy, or what have you – conform to his own rules? Now a part of the public will be convinced that he is actually virtuous (he keeps his words!) and we are all still left with a situation in which he sets the rules and the terms of how the war is to be waged.

    What I want, instead, is to create provocations that are so juicy and tempting that the other side has to, just has to, retaliate in an overwhelming manner (rather akin to assassinations of high value targets bringing repressive reprisals against the civilian population, which further alienates the latter into supporting us).

    I must admit that Trump is doing a rather good job on this. The whole Pocahontas and DNA test bit was very well-played.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Twinkie wrote to me:

    I understood what he meant. There is a problem with this strategy, though. What if the enemy does – actually driven by shame, honor, cold calculation, change of strategy, or what have you – conform to his own rules? Now a part of the public will be convinced that he is actually virtuous (he keeps his words!) and we are all still left with a situation in which he sets the rules and the terms of how the war is to be waged.
     
    But Leftists almost never do that, do they?

    I myself would actually have more respect for the Left if they would all give enrything that they have to the poor, give up their own positions of power and influence in favor of racial minorities, etc.

    And, if they did, perhaps that would solve the problem: i.e., an impoverished Elizabeth Warren who gave up her position in the Senate, her academic positionsa and honors, etc. would not really matter, would she?

    Of course, I suppose that it is always possible that if she did that, people might actually respect her, as they did Gandhi, the desert saints of ancient Christianity, or Saint Francis.

    But, somehow, I just do not think there is much danger of Sen. Warren spending the rest of her life sitting on top of a pillar like Simeon Stylites!
  90. @Gnome Sayin
    I would bet a large amount of money that the average white American has more NA ancestry than Warren.

    I would bet a large amount of money that the average white American has more NA ancestry than Warren.

    We don’t even need all that. Just a couple of GOP senators with higher American Indian ancestry than Warren… who then get on TV and say, well, hey, I didn’t get a professorship at Harvard law school and I also went to a third tier law school (or to a better law school).

    Two birds with one stone.

  91. @eah
    We can't have that.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpml_RYUcAA-8Zn.jpg

    “primarily benefit”

    Er, because there are more whites than Asians in the U.S.? Why would that be wrong?

    Is it me or suddenly in the mainstream media, there is all kinds of pushing of trophies for Asians?

    I almost get the sense that a certain group of elites is getting a tad nervous that Asians might defect from the Coalition of the Fringes and start making a common cause with – gasp! – Christian whites. Feels a little bit like those in power are doling out a bit of cookie crumbs for Asians to butter them up into not defecting from the Coalition – “Look, look, don’t go now! You are about to be recognized as a valuable player in our team! You are about to get your due!”

  92. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    Why do men migrate from MENA today? Women.
    Thing for redheads?

    • Replies: @Iberiano
    The "Redhead" stereotype is more Scottish and Viking (particularly red beards with blond hair).
  93. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    I believe the example Adams gives of immigration (as a rule-proving exception) was a merchant who had money, connections, was always there anyway, and was definitely in a city. But he was almost a one-off. I’ll check when I can.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    My favorite Ibero-Hibernian is the late Spanish Jesuit papyrologist José O’Callaghan Martínez:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_O%27Callaghan_Mart%C3%ADnez

  95. @eah
    https://twitter.com/Catsplaining/status/1051854212278104066

    White genocide isn’t happening and people who bring it up are stupid and insensitive.
    But at the same time, yeah, white genocide’s totally happening, And That’s A Good Thing.

  96. @steve 84:

    This really isn’t as mysterious as you make it out to be. Spanish is an Indo-European language; so is Irish Gaelic, and so is Dutch (the Irish surname Burke is a corruption of Dutch surname de Burgh, and I’m pretty sure the Dutch Armada shipwrecked in Java, not Ireland). People moved around all throughout that quadrant of Europa more than you’d guess. And as I say, they’re all I-E languages, they have subterranean relations. Irish surname Costello sounds Spanish or Italian, like a corruption of “castellan”, but could just as easily be derived from an old Gaelic word that shares a similar root.

    Don’t make the Martin “Dah, Me No Understand Linguistics” Bernal error of thinking that just because two words in different languages sound similar, one must be derived from the other.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    (the Irish surname Burke is a corruption of Dutch surname de Burgh,
     
    Is that where the name de Beers is derived from? Were the de Burghs Sephardic Jews?
  97. /ACLU

    Every.
    Single.
    Time.

  98. @Desiderius
    She’s toast. Can’t win D nomination without blacks (see Sanders, B.) and blacks are tired of Beckys cutting in on their AA already. A white Becky double-dipping by pretending to be of color?

    Oh Hell no!

    Yep. Kamala’s going to get the nomination in 2020. They have nobody else and she’s an affirmative action dream.

    We just have to be welcoming to all the white women who will be fleeing the Dems as their black and brown constituents take her nomination as carte blanche to let fly with their racist contempt for Beckies.

  99. OT:

    Ezra Klein, who smeared Charles Murray and Sam Harris as “racist” for daring to discuss the effects of different IQ averages across different racial groups, is now smeared as “racist”, along with Bill Gates, for daring to point out that Africa has an obvious over-population problem.

    The “woke/anti-racists” will always eat their own. Their positions aren’t based on evidence or reasoned arguments, but on the dogmatic faith of anti-racism, the idea that all human beings MUST be equal in cognitive power and behavior, and that all differences in results MUST be due to the Oppression of Evil Whites.

    Anyone who even slightly disagrees with the dogmas is to be smeared as a “racist”, which is apparently the Mark of Cain, the anathema that can never be forgiven.

    As evidence piles up to show that races are real, that average differences between races are also real, and that they have concrete effects on differential rates of income, of incarceration, of academic achievements, etc., the “anti-racists” attack indiscriminately anyone who even seems to suggest that the world isn’t going to become the Perfectly Equal Utopia.

  100. @Antlitz Grollheim
    The humor is the point, because it's the humor that subconsciously drives home the belief that she's not Indian and therefore lied. People are swayed by pathos, not moral finger-wagging.

    The humor is the point, because it’s the humor that subconsciously drives home the belief that she’s not Indian and therefore lied.

    Nah, the mockery is itself the point, because Liz is a humorless relentless boomer feminist like Hillary.

    Warren will have her hands full in the primaries, with competent politicians like Biden and Garcetti in the hunt.

    BTW, why hasn’t iSteve done a ten part blog series on Garcetti as a presidential candidate? I rely on iSteve to give the scoop on LA, because California’s present is America’s future.

    Did I mention that Garcetti is Jewish? Bloomberg and Howard Schultz don’t have a prayer shawl against Garcetti, who looks like a president rather than like a pencil-necked geek.

    • Replies: @FO337
    You raise a good point. Why isn't Garcetti the front-runner already?

    Garcetti's paternal grandfather, Salvador, was born in Parral, Chihuahua, Mexico. Salvador was brought by his family to the United States as a child after his father, Massimo "Max" Garcetti, was murdered by hanging...

    See? He's Jewish but not even 'white'! His dad was lynched! How perfect! Navy vet! Ivy League! Italian surname! Should he declare himself a trannie now? PS: I know little of LA politics so someone please fill us in.

  101. @donut
    Why do you keep posting pictures of this freak ?

    I never have before. He kinda looks like the ebay fraud guy Mueller put away I posted a pic of a couple weeks ago.

  102. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Ireland was always envisaged as the launching point for invasion of the British mainland by the French, Spanish then Germans. Like the Ukraine for Russia, or France's and their eastern flank, securing Ireland was necessary for self defence.
    , @Twinkie

    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.
     
    Ireland was Britain’s Korea. Or was it Korea that was Japan’s Ireland?
  103. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    There was long a historical alliance between Spain and Ireland against England, much like the more famous alliance between France and Scotland against England (The “Auld Alliance”, as the latter was called).

    Remember that, during the English Civil War period, the Irish rose up in rebellion, and used Spanish mercenaries and equipment. Heck, almost whenever the Irish were rising in rebellion against English rule in an organized fashion, the Spanish were on hand. Plus the Church probably wanted loyal, powerful Spain to keep Ireland supplied with priests and church funds to keep them from going Protestant at England’s heavy demand.

    So it’s quite likely Spanish troops and government agents took a a liking to the place and a local wife in the process. No different than today when some American troops abroad take Korean, Japanese, and German wives and end up staying there (after the tour of duty is over) after being first stationed in those countries.

  104. Oooh, Lindsey’s got his inner bitch coming out. There’s no homo quite like a Southern homo.

  105. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    In Éamon de Valera’s case, he was a half-Spanish Irishman sired in New York City and raised by his Irish grandmother.

  106. @Antlitz G: “the humor is the point…”

    We can have more than one point. Hopefully the mockery alone will be enough to keep her from the nom (though I do hope she gets it, cuz if so, she’s suuuuuch toast), but if not, the underlying evil of her action should not be ignored. Trump could do a solid ten minutes on each at the Laugh Factory.

    Point is, she’s a laughingstock, but ALSO a lying crook.

    “It’s a floor wax!”
    “It’s a dessert topping!”
    “it’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping!”

    Right now though I’m far more worried about the mid-terms than 2020. If Dems regain the House it’s an utter disaster. Anything that helps normies see how evil, perverse, and also laughable the Dems are, is fine with me. You point and laugh, I’ll point and shriek.

  107. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    Really depends on whether Trump would want her as a possible opponent or not.

    Some enterprising reporter could ask her if she’s ever taken advantage of AA. Either yes or no is an interesting claim.

    Not sure if this is a great moment to ‘have a conversation’ on AA though. It is a problem that questionable characters like quasi-hispanics, quasi-native americans, bangladeshi BLM princelings, africans and carribeans rather than african-americans, etc, can fake their way in, and Warren would presumably make a good example of this — but the greater issue is that AA itself is bunk, racial gibs, and should be ended.

  108. @Dan Hayes
    A Irishman only in name:

    The novelist Patrick O'Brian of sea stories fame was born Richard Patrick Russ in England with an English physician father of German descent and an English mother of Irish descent.

    Also, Patrick O’Brian was a bad sailor, according to a millionaire fan who invited him out on his yacht.

    But he was a pretty good writer.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  109. @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    Don’t do anything. #1 rule is you don’t interrupt when you’re opponent’s f***ing up.

  110. @27 year old
    Off topic -

    David "cheated on his wife with his young shiksa research assistant while writing a book called the road to character and also by the way his son serves in a foreign military" Brooks is following up with his next book called (drumroll please) The Committed Life ...

    They’ve always been pros at saying “Do what we tell you, not what we do.”

    There’s a word for this…. privilege I believe it is….

  111. @donut
    Why do you keep posting pictures of this freak ?

    He could play The Joker without needing makeup.

  112. @J.Ross
    OT Inequality. A martial arts instructor decides to throw a punch in a dispute over a magical chicken that lays golden eggs, grants wishes, and speaks Finnish, of which there is only one in the world. No, wait a minute, the fight was over a parking space. The guy that the martial arts instructor started a fight with is enormous, and has no compunction about hitting a girl.
    https://www.breitbart.com/border/2018/10/16/watch-texas-man-beats-petite-woman-in-parking-spot-dispute/

    So many girls have needed that, and yet I could never bring myself to do it.

    I guess they really do do the jobs we Americans won’t.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    Bah, a bunch of Mexicans acting Mexican. Makes for good theater.
  113. @eah
    OT

    UK "Conservatives"

    https://i.postimg.cc/tRf3Lr4D/Conservatives-UK.jpg

    Also, if you read websites like this one, you’re going to prison.
    But what’s the harm in that?

  114. @eah
    We can't have that.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpml_RYUcAA-8Zn.jpg

    At least they’re “honest” (sort of) about why they oppose it.

  115. @dvorak

    The humor is the point, because it’s the humor that subconsciously drives home the belief that she’s not Indian and therefore lied.
     
    Nah, the mockery is itself the point, because Liz is a humorless relentless boomer feminist like Hillary.

    Warren will have her hands full in the primaries, with competent politicians like Biden and Garcetti in the hunt.

    BTW, why hasn't iSteve done a ten part blog series on Garcetti as a presidential candidate? I rely on iSteve to give the scoop on LA, because California's present is America's future.

    Did I mention that Garcetti is Jewish? Bloomberg and Howard Schultz don't have a prayer shawl against Garcetti, who looks like a president rather than like a pencil-necked geek.

    You raise a good point. Why isn’t Garcetti the front-runner already?

    Garcetti’s paternal grandfather, Salvador, was born in Parral, Chihuahua, Mexico. Salvador was brought by his family to the United States as a child after his father, Massimo “Max” Garcetti, was murdered by hanging…

    See? He’s Jewish but not even ‘white’! His dad was lynched! How perfect! Navy vet! Ivy League! Italian surname! Should he declare himself a trannie now? PS: I know little of LA politics so someone please fill us in.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Mayor Garcetti of Los Angeles is Jewish on his mother's side, most likely not on the side of his father, the DA who screwed up the OJ prosecution. His paternal grandfather was an Italian in Mexico. His Italian great-grandfather was apparently strung up during the Mexican Revolution. His paternal grandmother might have been Mexican.

    I vaguely recall I may have owned a suit made by his Jewish maternal grandfather's prosperous suit-making firm. (It was a good suit, if I recall correctly.) Garcetti dresses superbly, making Trump look like Michael Moore in contrast. He's not exactly movie star handsome, more like TV star handsome -- he looks like the dad on "Modern Family" -- but being at the 98th percentile of good looks is probably better for a politician than being at the 99.9th percentile.

  116. @Iberiano
    A group of the Celts most likely came from Northern Spain, traveled up the French Coast (Brittany, a Celtic region) and then landed in what is today Wales and Ireland--which accounts for the genetics being similar. It was faster travel, and "closer" than land travel. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic and even have bagpipes, not to mention very similar phenotypes.

    There was actually a diocese of the Catholic Church in Galicia called Britonia, because the area was settled by Britons after the Saxon invasions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britonia

    Northern Spain (Asturias/Galicia especially) has a Celtic vibe – cider drinkers and bagpipe players. Lovely place, very different to the south where most Brit tourists go. And the Picos de Europa in Cantabria are terrific.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    People from Breton in France who speak the native Celtic language can go to Wales and more or less talk with Welsh speakers.
  117. @FO337
    You raise a good point. Why isn't Garcetti the front-runner already?

    Garcetti's paternal grandfather, Salvador, was born in Parral, Chihuahua, Mexico. Salvador was brought by his family to the United States as a child after his father, Massimo "Max" Garcetti, was murdered by hanging...

    See? He's Jewish but not even 'white'! His dad was lynched! How perfect! Navy vet! Ivy League! Italian surname! Should he declare himself a trannie now? PS: I know little of LA politics so someone please fill us in.

    Mayor Garcetti of Los Angeles is Jewish on his mother’s side, most likely not on the side of his father, the DA who screwed up the OJ prosecution. His paternal grandfather was an Italian in Mexico. His Italian great-grandfather was apparently strung up during the Mexican Revolution. His paternal grandmother might have been Mexican.

    I vaguely recall I may have owned a suit made by his Jewish maternal grandfather’s prosperous suit-making firm. (It was a good suit, if I recall correctly.) Garcetti dresses superbly, making Trump look like Michael Moore in contrast. He’s not exactly movie star handsome, more like TV star handsome — he looks like the dad on “Modern Family” — but being at the 98th percentile of good looks is probably better for a politician than being at the 99.9th percentile.

  118. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lester Fewer
    Many people have pointed this out, but it's crucial to not take our eye off the ball here.

    The point is not "who is the bigger Indian?" The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She's both a liar and a thief: two grave sins for the price of one.

    While it's a hoot to see even the pussywillow Graham trolling her, it's not the point.

    We need a terse, catchy meme for this. Something like (I'm sure lots of people can do better)...

    Lizzie LIED, the Indian CRIED.

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.

    She didn’t lie. She does in fact have Indian ancestry.

    This whole thing is an attack on core heritage Americans, especially White Southerners, because many of them have Indian ancestry.

    • Replies: @Anon
    She doesn’t have Indian ancestry. .4 isn’t Indian ancestry

    One of the DNA companies has a category Amer Indian East Asian. East Asia starts at the China Russia border. So it could be a real 1700s Amer Indian or some Mongol raider in Hungary a thousand years ago.
  119. @YetAnotherAnon
    There was actually a diocese of the Catholic Church in Galicia called Britonia, because the area was settled by Britons after the Saxon invasions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britonia

    Northern Spain (Asturias/Galicia especially) has a Celtic vibe - cider drinkers and bagpipe players. Lovely place, very different to the south where most Brit tourists go. And the Picos de Europa in Cantabria are terrific.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgofY_FH16Y

    People from Breton in France who speak the native Celtic language can go to Wales and more or less talk with Welsh speakers.

    • Replies: @Graham
    No, they can't. Welsh and Breton are much too far apart. I can give detailed evidence if you need it.
    , @Charles Pewitt
    Some of the Bretons came over to England with William the Conqueror for a little pay back.

    The Saxons and Angles had booted the Bretons out of Britain and some came back to finish some business.

    Rees-Mogg is a Welshman, I think.
  120. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    Basil Cottle, in his great books “Names” and “The Penguin Dictionary of British Surnames”, made the point that sometimes “place name” surname conferral derives from the first bearer having bored the hell out of his acquaintances with tales of the wonders he saw, the beautiful women he tupped and the fights he won in the mighty city or land of xxxxxx as a young man. So, a “Spanish” surname may be a similar, disguised nickname.
    Second only to Tir nan Og (the Land of Youth) in Irish folklore I’ve read is the notion that Spain was seen as an earthly paradise. And ?J. Ross’s point in an earlier comment about the gross disparity between Spain and the west coast of Ireland is correct. Cuéllar, the survivor whose account I mentioned, was stripped naked by the first locals who encountered him in Connacht. The immiserated peasants of Connacht (recall the expression “To Hell, or to Connacht “?) took full advantage of their “windfall.” Only the fittest, like Cuéllar, could possibly survive autumn in western Ireland travelling north naked (for at least a couple of days) until hooking up with a friendly local noble who arranged transport to the Orkneys and thence to Antwerp.
    It may be worth mentioning that one of the classic Irish surnames, Gallagher, actually derives from the Irish for “descendant of foreign worker” but “foreign” is too imprecise to be really helpful, although it’s most common in NW Ireland (Mayo to Donegal).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Guys called Tex generally don't live in Texas.
  121. @eah
    We can't have that.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpml_RYUcAA-8Zn.jpg

    So pasty-faced ACLU members don’t consider themselves white?

  122. @Steve in Greensboro
    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.

    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.

    She did not commit fraud. She has proven she has Indian ancestry. Many Southerners do.

    • Replies: @Iberiano
    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as "Cherokee" (google to see first source references of her various claims over the last few decades). She also claimed her mother had to elope, due to her father's family not wanting him to marry an Indian. But even if her mother was, prospectively, double the amount of NA, Warren possibly has (that scientifically debatable), she was not Indian either, nor recognized by any tribe. It was also demonstrated, they didn't elope.

    Warren absolutely benefited by her false claim of NA ancestry, and permitted herself to be listed/referred to as a person of color, a "Cherokee" and NA on more than one occasion, without correction. The defense to that of course, is similar to all women who are called out and held to be accountable..."genius", strong, independent, women, suddenly don't know how to call Senators (Dr. Blah Blah), or how to correct an obvious "error" in a college report, etc. We all know, of course they know how to do that, it's only after the fact that we have 'brilliant' women, like Hilary, that claim they don't know what "Top Secret" printed at the top of an email, actually means.

    But don't take it from us...just want till Kamala Harris gets to interrogate her during the DNC primaries :) Actually, never mind, Warren may not even going to make past a few months of her own parties' primary, at best, before dropping out like Elizabeth Dole did for the RNC. She won't take the heat. Once the "real" brown people start bashing her, her candidacy will dissolve. It will only last as long as it remains a local interest story with other Anglo-Puritans in the North East.

    , @Svigor

    Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    October 17, 2018 at 9:05 am GMT
     
    Ignored. Interesting how many Anons are dumpster fires.
  123. @Twinkie

    The principle that you make your enemy play by his own rules really means that you publicly demand that he do so, so that, if he behaves hypocritically, you can expose him for what he is.
     
    I understood what he meant. There is a problem with this strategy, though. What if the enemy does - actually driven by shame, honor, cold calculation, change of strategy, or what have you - conform to his own rules? Now a part of the public will be convinced that he is actually virtuous (he keeps his words!) and we are all still left with a situation in which he sets the rules and the terms of how the war is to be waged.

    What I want, instead, is to create provocations that are so juicy and tempting that the other side has to, just has to, retaliate in an overwhelming manner (rather akin to assassinations of high value targets bringing repressive reprisals against the civilian population, which further alienates the latter into supporting us).

    I must admit that Trump is doing a rather good job on this. The whole Pocahontas and DNA test bit was very well-played.

    Twinkie wrote to me:

    I understood what he meant. There is a problem with this strategy, though. What if the enemy does – actually driven by shame, honor, cold calculation, change of strategy, or what have you – conform to his own rules? Now a part of the public will be convinced that he is actually virtuous (he keeps his words!) and we are all still left with a situation in which he sets the rules and the terms of how the war is to be waged.

    But Leftists almost never do that, do they?

    I myself would actually have more respect for the Left if they would all give enrything that they have to the poor, give up their own positions of power and influence in favor of racial minorities, etc.

    And, if they did, perhaps that would solve the problem: i.e., an impoverished Elizabeth Warren who gave up her position in the Senate, her academic positionsa and honors, etc. would not really matter, would she?

    Of course, I suppose that it is always possible that if she did that, people might actually respect her, as they did Gandhi, the desert saints of ancient Christianity, or Saint Francis.

    But, somehow, I just do not think there is much danger of Sen. Warren spending the rest of her life sitting on top of a pillar like Simeon Stylites!

  124. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    You contradicted yourself.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them. Some of you people have lost your minds on this Fauxcahontas thing.

    This.

    Not only was she both truthful and helpful to her fellow Whites, but Whites with Indian ancestry such as Warren, Southerners, and Scots Irish, are underrepresented in academia.

  125. @Lowe
    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn't make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won't be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else. You might reconsider running for office, too, if you had that in mind.

    The Fauxahontas angle on Warren is devastatingly bad for her presidential aspirations. Her advisers are making the right move, getting everything in the open now. Try to talk it to death in advance. If this is still a discussion point by the time primary debates start, she's done. That's how bad cheating affirmative action is.

    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn’t make scamming it right.

    It doesn’t? It is generally accepted that negating a scam is a morally okay thing to do.

  126. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @GW
    You make your enemy play by his rules. Yes, affirmative action is evil and should be opposed. But Warren should be held to the standard her side implemented on all of us.

    You make your enemy play by his rules. Yes, affirmative action is evil and should be opposed. But Warren should be held to the standard her side implemented on all of us.

    You have it backwards. Making the enemy play by his rules would mean accepting Warren as Indian because of her now proven Indian ancestry.

  127. What’s the deal with being part Cherokee? Have you ever noticed that White people who claim to be part Indian almost invariable claim Cherokee ancestry? Why never Algonquin, Hopi, or Nez Perce? Always Cherokee. Were they just more promiscuous than the other tribes, I wonder?

    In all my life, I have met only one man claiming to be part Indian who named a tribe other than the Cherokee: he said that he was half-Osage, which made sense, since he came from Oklahama where there’s a massive Osage rez. But apart from him, all the rest claimed to be Cherokee. Strange …

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Cherokee were the most advanced American Indians. Sequoyah invented an alphabet for them around 1810 and by the later 1820s they had a newspaper. They got thrown out of the Southeast because they weren't dying out like other tribes, they were thriving. Their chief in the 1830s, John Ross, was 7/8ths white because they figured he would be better at arguing their case at the Supreme Court.

    A similar case: the Navajo out west weren't that numerous a few centuries ago, but they got good at Spanish trades, such as sheepherding and blanket-making, and proliferated.

    , @stillCARealist
    Plenty of Navajo in AZ and NM. Still Utes in Utah. Go there and you'll meet white people claiming some of that heritage.

    In CA we have a ton of tribal types, whose names never come up, running casinos on "sacred land". Around my area there are plenty of museums with artifacts from the Maidu Indians, but I've never met any of their possible descendants, mixed or not.

    We had an employee who claimed to be a full-blooded CA Indian, but she never named the tribe. She was rather embarrassed about her drunken relatives, including her father who still wanted to live in the forest and sleep under an old blanket on the ground. Turns out the forest service frowns on such behavior, and private landowners freak out when unexpected campfires appear. He was arrested a zillion times, but I found myself sort of enchanted by his wildness.
  128. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    Bem Tillman wrote:

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them.
     
    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don't.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    We do not need to play the Left's tribalist game of our skin color vs. their skin color. We can stand for justice.

    As alien as that concept might seem in 2018.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    She didn’t “pretend” to be Amerindian. She is in fact of Amerindian descent. If an Amerindian deserved it, she deserved it.

    And that’s setting aside your questionable claim that anyone “deserves” a position because he or she is Amerindian or Black.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    She didn’t “pretend” to be Amerindian. She is in fact of Amerindian descent. If an Amerindian deserved it, she deserved it.

    And that’s setting aside your questionable claim that anyone “deserves” a position because he or she is Amerindian or Black.
     

    Not to mention the further questionable position that anyone could possibly "deserve" a professorship at Harvard.
  129. @Desiderius
    She’s toast. Can’t win D nomination without blacks (see Sanders, B.) and blacks are tired of Beckys cutting in on their AA already. A white Becky double-dipping by pretending to be of color?

    Oh Hell no!

    Do you really think that Blacks care about affirmative action for Indians?

  130. @GW
    Watch what's happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered "Pocahontas" and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test), and is now getting it from all sides; mainstream Republicans, actual Cherokees, even the media to some degree. This is precisely the type of pressure and hysteria a conservative who transgressed some racial taboo would be facing. Does anyone think Miss 1/1,024 has any chance of mounting a serious presidential campaign now? She's become a walking meme. Thanks to Trump and others on the Right holding her to liberal standards.

    Watch what’s happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered “Pocahontas” and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test)

    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.
     
    Yeah, she proved that she’s 531/532th white, but was masquerading as a Cherokee, going so far as to contribute American Indian recipes (with mayo and canned crab).

    As I commented on Razib Khan’s site:

    When you lose Dana Milbank…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/join-my-tribe-elizabeth-warren/2018/10/16/3fb0867e-d181-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0_story.html

    Among the many unfortunate results of Warren’s recent DNA test suggesting she’s somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American by ethnicity: It inevitably draws attention to her contribution to the ’80s cookbook, “Pow Wow Chow: A Collection of Recipes from Families of the Five Civilized Tribes.”

    Under “Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee,” it lists five recipes, three of which were apparently cribbed from the New York Times and Better Homes and Gardens.

    Worse, one of the recipes she submitted: “Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing.” A traditional Cherokee dish with mayonnaise, a 19th-century condiment imported by settlers? A crab dish from landlocked Oklahoma? This can mean only one thing: canned crab.

    Warren is unfit to lead.
     
    Well-played, mein Führer, well-played.
    , @Desiderius
    To bad she chose the NAM party then. Good luck making that case to them.
  131. @J.Ross
    I see that this sub-discussion isn't going away, so I will put in my conviction by Cecil Adams of the Straight Dope newspaper feature that it almost certainly is not true. Relying on Adams:
    There are several points of connection and they usually come with reasons to dismiss them.
    Irish do come "from Spain" mythologically and in the sense of the ancient Celtic expansion. However, this would predate Spanish names, and conceptions of Spanishness.
    There are names that resemble Spanish language tendencies but have separate explanations.
    At the time of the Armada the Spaniards were a civilization-defining world power and the Irish were ... not. There are written records of one Spaniard whose Irish rescuer all but forced his colleen on him and, contrary to the Spanish stereotype, the record suggests that nothing happened, and he got out of there as soon as he could.
    A lot of Armada Spaniards died and those that did not were not very well treated.
    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries; there were also individual cases of immigration. This was rare though.

    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries;

    How is this relevant to the discussion?

    • Replies: @Cortes
    Younger sons in families living in marginal agricultural areas would have to become more mobile and recruitment as mercenaries (the “gallowglasses” or “young foreign fighters” referred to by Shakespeare) was a traditional career choice for many. Why stay around and starve when there’s a big, wide world out there? A couple of Roman Emperors (?Maximian and Diocletian?) were reckoned by Gibbons, I seem to remember, to have risen to the purple from such humble backgrounds.
    , @J.Ross
    It's a logical and, in contrast to Armada shipwreckees, historically attested explanation for immigration.
  132. @Steve Sailer
    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed. It wasn't uncommon for Irish to emigrate to Catholic countries, but going the opposite way is harder to explain, so people come up with stories like Spanish Armada shipwrecks.

    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed.

    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    To conquer?
    , @Twinkie

    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?
     
    They went as mercenaries, freibooters, and adventurers. Ireland was divided and chaotic and thus offered opportunities for such men who might be unsupported or unwelcome in their native lands. And it was close by.
  133. @The Bunnyman
    @steve 84:

    This really isn't as mysterious as you make it out to be. Spanish is an Indo-European language; so is Irish Gaelic, and so is Dutch (the Irish surname Burke is a corruption of Dutch surname de Burgh, and I'm pretty sure the Dutch Armada shipwrecked in Java, not Ireland). People moved around all throughout that quadrant of Europa more than you'd guess. And as I say, they're all I-E languages, they have subterranean relations. Irish surname Costello sounds Spanish or Italian, like a corruption of "castellan", but could just as easily be derived from an old Gaelic word that shares a similar root.

    Don't make the Martin "Dah, Me No Understand Linguistics" Bernal error of thinking that just because two words in different languages sound similar, one must be derived from the other.

    (the Irish surname Burke is a corruption of Dutch surname de Burgh,

    Is that where the name de Beers is derived from? Were the de Burghs Sephardic Jews?

  134. @Gnome Sayin
    I would bet a large amount of money that the average white American has more NA ancestry than Warren.

    Razib says that the test shows she probably has an order of magnitude more Indian ancestry than an average old stock Anglo-American.

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-carries-native-american-dna-shes-running/

    But it seems that people from certain parts of the country are more likely to have some Indian background. Probably very little discernible in, say, New England, versus more in Oklahoma.

    • Replies: @Gnome Sayin
    Glad I didn't have any bet takers then. I was unaware she was from Oklahoma.
  135. @Anonymous

    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed.
     
    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?

    To conquer?

  136. @Digital Samizdat
    What's the deal with being part Cherokee? Have you ever noticed that White people who claim to be part Indian almost invariable claim Cherokee ancestry? Why never Algonquin, Hopi, or Nez Perce? Always Cherokee. Were they just more promiscuous than the other tribes, I wonder?

    In all my life, I have met only one man claiming to be part Indian who named a tribe other than the Cherokee: he said that he was half-Osage, which made sense, since he came from Oklahama where there's a massive Osage rez. But apart from him, all the rest claimed to be Cherokee. Strange ...

    The Cherokee were the most advanced American Indians. Sequoyah invented an alphabet for them around 1810 and by the later 1820s they had a newspaper. They got thrown out of the Southeast because they weren’t dying out like other tribes, they were thriving. Their chief in the 1830s, John Ross, was 7/8ths white because they figured he would be better at arguing their case at the Supreme Court.

    A similar case: the Navajo out west weren’t that numerous a few centuries ago, but they got good at Spanish trades, such as sheepherding and blanket-making, and proliferated.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    No it was the Red Stick wars. Whites stopped caring about the distinction between the radicals and Christian Cherokee. Much like China with the Uighurs.
    , @Gene Berman
    Digital Samizdat:

    The Cherokee (living primarily in NC, SC, TN, and GA) were not only somewhat advanced (compared
    to other tribes) but, very early on, developed amicable relations of all sorts with the new settlers
    (white, British) in the area. Their men sometimes courted (and were often welcomed by the white settler families) settler daughters as well as their daughters marrying settler men. My guess is that
    the Indians generally "looked up" to the whites as being a bit more advanced (civilization-wise) than were they--quickly adopting as many of the newcomers' ways as practical.

    In a certain sense, it is probable that the Cherokee's civilizational status formed the basis of their behaviors ultimately leading to their dispossession and removal ("trail of tears") to the Oklahoma
    reservation, including loss of much" lawful of the eastern land considered "theirs"). They chose to and then support the British in the revolutionary war. Why? Very simple--they were just behaving lawfully--in support of the "lawful," established (British) government.

    What led, ultimately, to their downfall and dispossession was not simply white settlers coming in
    and settling. Rather, it was that GOLD !!! had been discovered--first in central-western North Carolina and then in and around the river flowing down from the Smokies, through western NC,
    and on down through South SC and GA.

    The Cherokee pursued every, Andrew legal route to the possession of even a small fraction of what had previously been theirs exclusively. In all, there were seven trials, the last of which was in USSC, and all of which were decided in favor of the Cherokee claim. Then-President, Andrew Jackson, famously proclaimed, "The Supreme Court has made their decision--let's see them enforce it!"
    He ordered the immediate removal of the Cherokee to assigned land in Oklahoma AND the arrest
    and detention of all of the justices of the Supreme Court. These latter managed to disperse and hide out until Jackson's ire had subsided sufficiently but the dispossession of the Cherokees began.

    Today, there are Cherokees living on their own privately-owned land here and there but only one concentration--on a reservation in western NC consisting of land not fully conquered by the troops
    of the U.S.--and, thus, officially declared a reservation. Today (and for many years), it's a tourist
    attraction featuring a major casino, Indian concessions of every type, motels of every sort, a drama
    ("Trail of Tears") played regularly for visitors in a natural amphitheater, and even "gold-panning" in the Oconoluftee River (Oconoluftee-"man with one ball hanging down," according to an old
    Cherokee woman--Mrs. Taylor-- recognized as expert in Cherokee language and history).
    , @Digital Samizdat
    Very interesting, Steve. I didn't know all that about the Cherokee. Thanks for the reply.
  137. @Cortes
    Basil Cottle, in his great books “Names” and “The Penguin Dictionary of British Surnames”, made the point that sometimes “place name” surname conferral derives from the first bearer having bored the hell out of his acquaintances with tales of the wonders he saw, the beautiful women he tupped and the fights he won in the mighty city or land of xxxxxx as a young man. So, a “Spanish” surname may be a similar, disguised nickname.
    Second only to Tir nan Og (the Land of Youth) in Irish folklore I’ve read is the notion that Spain was seen as an earthly paradise. And ?J. Ross’s point in an earlier comment about the gross disparity between Spain and the west coast of Ireland is correct. Cuéllar, the survivor whose account I mentioned, was stripped naked by the first locals who encountered him in Connacht. The immiserated peasants of Connacht (recall the expression “To Hell, or to Connacht “?) took full advantage of their “windfall.” Only the fittest, like Cuéllar, could possibly survive autumn in western Ireland travelling north naked (for at least a couple of days) until hooking up with a friendly local noble who arranged transport to the Orkneys and thence to Antwerp.
    It may be worth mentioning that one of the classic Irish surnames, Gallagher, actually derives from the Irish for “descendant of foreign worker” but “foreign” is too imprecise to be really helpful, although it’s most common in NW Ireland (Mayo to Donegal).

    Guys called Tex generally don’t live in Texas.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    Exactly!

    And Abe Lincoln’s forebear who moved away from Lincolnshire and bored everyone senseless with stories about the place he’s never going back to would be called Lincoln whether he was previously known as Carpenter, Clark or whatever.

    One of Lawrence Block’s early “Keller” hitman stories, “Keller on Horseback”, set in Wyoming has the dastardly Manhattanite try the immortal line “Call me Tex” to the great amusement of the woman he’s trying to pick up. Very recently I saw a possible inspiration for that one (and another name used in the story) in the Bertha Cool/Donald Lam novel “Up For Grabs.”

    Anyway, back at the ranch, so to speak, place name nicknames will be used somewhere else. And in societies where proper names are recycled endlessly, some methods of differentiation are necessary.
    , @ben tillman

    Guys called Tex generally don’t live in Texas.
     
    I'll be damned. Tex Schramm was named "Texas Earnest Schramm" because Texas was his father's name (and where his parents met). But he did go to UT and live in Texas. I get my hair cut in the same barber shop he and Brandt and Landry used to get theirs cut in.
  138. @Desiderius
    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.

    Ireland was always envisaged as the launching point for invasion of the British mainland by the French, Spanish then Germans. Like the Ukraine for Russia, or France’s and their eastern flank, securing Ireland was necessary for self defence.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Necessary for economic exploitation is more like it.
  139. @Anonymous

    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries;
     
    How is this relevant to the discussion?

    Younger sons in families living in marginal agricultural areas would have to become more mobile and recruitment as mercenaries (the “gallowglasses” or “young foreign fighters” referred to by Shakespeare) was a traditional career choice for many. Why stay around and starve when there’s a big, wide world out there? A couple of Roman Emperors (?Maximian and Diocletian?) were reckoned by Gibbons, I seem to remember, to have risen to the purple from such humble backgrounds.

  140. I am curious how the use of DNA will factor in affirmative action policy (if not court cases) in the future. It’s of particular interest to me because as most of you know, there is no “quantum blood” requirement, nor even cultural definition of being “Hispanic” or “Latino”. Here on the West Coast, I am seen as I am, a “white hispanic”, nevertheless, in-group–even though I am only of Spanish descent (no Indigenous blood). However, there are Latino/Hispanics that are nearly completely black (Islanders) or Indigenous (Peru/Bolivia) that have no Spanish blood.

    There are Hispanics in the US (and Latin America) with non-Spanish last names, attesting to their German, or Jewish heritage. In other cases, there are Latinos from Tennessee who “look” stereotypical of Latinos, but do not speak Spanish and have little, if any, cultural association with the what most would consider Latino/Hispanic culture.

    What does this mean for A/A for Latino/Hispanics (which I would argue is pretty limited already, compared to blacks and white women)? Latino advocates routinely go out of their way to note “there isn’t a particular look, or culture” (which is true), but one gets the sense, like being Jewish (to some degree), this is a way to set the narrative so that none of us are culturally, linguistically or genetically litmus tested.

    All the federal government requires to claim “Hispanic”, is, among all the Latin America nations, a cultural or ancestral tie to Spain. That’s literally tens of millions of Americans, including Filipino immigrants and their descendants.

    Where does this all lead to? What if Warren had claimed “Hispanic” and her DNA came back 5, 10, or even 25 percent Iberian? It’s not like tribal affiliation, which has actual standards per tribe, or being “black” which typically is obvious to the eye. Hispanic isn’t and we’ve gone out of our way to make sure people know that. So what is the future for A/A in light of that? Especially with mixed marriages?

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Where does this all lead to? What if Warren had claimed “Hispanic” and her DNA came back 5, 10, or even 25 percent Iberian? It’s not like tribal affiliation, which has actual standards per tribe, or being “black” which typically is obvious to the eye."

    You do not have to be obvious to the eye Black in phenotype in order to get affirmative action goodies set aside for African Americans, just ask Benjamin Jealous and G.K Butterfield.


    Benjamin Jealous is genetically 81% European which is by a huge landslide way more than the average 20% European ancestry found in African Americans.

  141. @Steve Sailer
    My best friend is from an upscale Irish American family (his father dropped out of Yale to fight in WWII) and looks highly Irish. But he has a Spanish surname. The family story is it comes from a Spanish admiral of the Armada who was shipwrecked in Ireland in 1588. He didn't know whether to believe that.

    But there was a certain amount of Ireland to Spain back and forth over the centuries. In Thomas Flanagan's "Year of the French" about the Irish uprising in 1798, one set of characters are wealthy Irish Catholics in the wine trade with Spain. I think they would go to Spain when English oppression in Ireland got too bad and come home when it loosened up.

    Dr. Stephen Maturin in the O'Brian sea stories is half Irish - half Catalan.

    • Replies: @Anon
    The Wild Geese were Irish who had the money and sense to get out in the 1560 to 1630 period when the English confiscated the property the native Irish. They went to the continent, bought land asserted their aristocratic lineage and thrived
    The most successful and famous are the Hennessy cognac family


    They were named Geese because like wild geese, they had the means to get out and escape 350 years of being the most badly treated of all England’s colonies

    The Irish who served in numerous armies over the centuries weren’t the Wild Geese.
  142. @william munny
    Razib says that the test shows she probably has an order of magnitude more Indian ancestry than an average old stock Anglo-American.

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-carries-native-american-dna-shes-running/

    But it seems that people from certain parts of the country are more likely to have some Indian background. Probably very little discernible in, say, New England, versus more in Oklahoma.

    Glad I didn’t have any bet takers then. I was unaware she was from Oklahoma.

  143. @Anonymous

    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.
     
    She did not commit fraud. She has proven she has Indian ancestry. Many Southerners do.

    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as “Cherokee” (google to see first source references of her various claims over the last few decades). She also claimed her mother had to elope, due to her father’s family not wanting him to marry an Indian. But even if her mother was, prospectively, double the amount of NA, Warren possibly has (that scientifically debatable), she was not Indian either, nor recognized by any tribe. It was also demonstrated, they didn’t elope.

    Warren absolutely benefited by her false claim of NA ancestry, and permitted herself to be listed/referred to as a person of color, a “Cherokee” and NA on more than one occasion, without correction. The defense to that of course, is similar to all women who are called out and held to be accountable…”genius”, strong, independent, women, suddenly don’t know how to call Senators (Dr. Blah Blah), or how to correct an obvious “error” in a college report, etc. We all know, of course they know how to do that, it’s only after the fact that we have ‘brilliant’ women, like Hilary, that claim they don’t know what “Top Secret” printed at the top of an email, actually means.

    But don’t take it from us…just want till Kamala Harris gets to interrogate her during the DNC primaries :) Actually, never mind, Warren may not even going to make past a few months of her own parties’ primary, at best, before dropping out like Elizabeth Dole did for the RNC. She won’t take the heat. Once the “real” brown people start bashing her, her candidacy will dissolve. It will only last as long as it remains a local interest story with other Anglo-Puritans in the North East.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    Yes, she did lie more than once. I can agree with that, and I hope this fiasco damages her political career because she's about the best candidate the Democrats can offer.
    , @Anonymous

    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as “Cherokee”.
     
    Warren is in fact Native American. She is of Native American descent. That fact does not require "recognition" by a "tribe."

    "Membership" in certain "tribes" may be required to receive benefits from certain institutions such as the US federal government, but that is a separate question. There is no suggestion Warren claimed she was on the "membership" rolls of the "Cherokee" organization.

    Trump should focus his energy on educating Americans on the harm done to them by immigration.

  144. @Anonymous

    The question is why would somebody with a Spanish surname (i.e., post c. 1300) emigrate to Ireland, which was poor, overcrowded, backward, rainy, and oppressed.
     
    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?

    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?

    They went as mercenaries, freibooters, and adventurers. Ireland was divided and chaotic and thus offered opportunities for such men who might be unsupported or unwelcome in their native lands. And it was close by.

    • Replies: @Simple Psuedonym
    Many Scots were invited as mercenaries periodically by local rulers.
  145. @Chrisnonymous
    Why do men migrate from MENA today? Women.
    Thing for redheads?

    The “Redhead” stereotype is more Scottish and Viking (particularly red beards with blond hair).

  146. @Anonymous

    Watch what’s happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered “Pocahontas” and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test)
     
    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.

    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.

    Yeah, she proved that she’s 531/532th white, but was masquerading as a Cherokee, going so far as to contribute American Indian recipes (with mayo and canned crab).

    As I commented on Razib Khan’s site:

    When you lose Dana Milbank…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/join-my-tribe-elizabeth-warren/2018/10/16/3fb0867e-d181-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0_story.html

    Among the many unfortunate results of Warren’s recent DNA test suggesting she’s somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American by ethnicity: It inevitably draws attention to her contribution to the ’80s cookbook, “Pow Wow Chow: A Collection of Recipes from Families of the Five Civilized Tribes.”

    Under “Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee,” it lists five recipes, three of which were apparently cribbed from the New York Times and Better Homes and Gardens.

    Worse, one of the recipes she submitted: “Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing.” A traditional Cherokee dish with mayonnaise, a 19th-century condiment imported by settlers? A crab dish from landlocked Oklahoma? This can mean only one thing: canned crab.

    Warren is unfit to lead.

    Well-played, mein Führer, well-played.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That is to be expected from Milbank. He is motivated by anti-White animus. Here, he is just trying to prevent any White Americans from claiming race-based benefits, governmental and social.
  147. @Peter Lund
    *All* of Europe had bagpipes.

    Ah, but only the Highland Scots could transform it into the majestic instrument it is today.

  148. @Desiderius
    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.

    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.

    Ireland was Britain’s Korea. Or was it Korea that was Japan’s Ireland?

    • Replies: @Simple Psuedonym
    No, all but Ulster subdued long before Spains rise as a great power. Possibly best to stay away from amatuer history hour on here.
    , @JMcG
    My brother!
    , @Anon
    Only one I can think of is the the war between the exiled King of England James2 and the Dutch Prince William of Orange who defeated James in the Battle of the Boyne 1690s

    Maybe you’re thinking of the 1790s Protestant United Irishmen revolution led by Irish Protestants like Wolfe Tone with some military help from the extremely secular militantly anti Catholic French revolutionary government which outlawed the Catholic Church and made it a death penalty offense to be a Catholic priest in France. That was a Protestant Colony’s revolution against a Protestant colonial power

  149. Hilarious. Spirit of Trump moving through him. If he loses no big deal, just for laffs. If he wins, he gets to count coup.

  150. Warren: this is warming up to be her Dukakis-in-the-tank moment.

  151. @Lowe
    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn't make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won't be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else. You might reconsider running for office, too, if you had that in mind.

    The Fauxahontas angle on Warren is devastatingly bad for her presidential aspirations. Her advisers are making the right move, getting everything in the open now. Try to talk it to death in advance. If this is still a discussion point by the time primary debates start, she's done. That's how bad cheating affirmative action is.

    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn’t make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won’t be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else.

    I can’t imagine an argument that “scamming” it is wrong. People have a duty to acquiesce in their oppression? What one produces belongs to someone else? Let’s hear your argument. It should be fascinating.

    By the way, I’m not interested in “praise”, but I don’t think your position has the support you presume it does.

  152. @Lowe
    Just because affirmative action is wrong doesn't make scamming it right. If you want to scam it, more power to you, but you won't be praised for it. Not by me, nor by virtually anyone else. You might reconsider running for office, too, if you had that in mind.

    The Fauxahontas angle on Warren is devastatingly bad for her presidential aspirations. Her advisers are making the right move, getting everything in the open now. Try to talk it to death in advance. If this is still a discussion point by the time primary debates start, she's done. That's how bad cheating affirmative action is.

    Scamming it isn’t wrong, either. Cheating at a rigged game is morally neutral. If anything, following the rules of a rigged game is immoral because it promotes and legitimizes rigged games.

    Warren’s violation is one of hypocrisy; she’s violated a leftist value (follow the rules of the rigged, anti-white game).

    None of this applies to those of us on the right who don’t advocate those rules, never mind those of us who loudly oppose them. For the latter, scamming affirmative action is a mitzvah.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I agree
  153. @donut
    Why do you keep posting pictures of this freak ?

    They’re educational. I’ve heard the name many times, but had no idea; only now do I truly understand.

    • Replies: @CJ
    Hoolian looks like a freaking West Hollywood rent boy in that pic. What's with the blond thing? Where is Latinx pride, where is down for brown? He sure looks a lot crazier than when he was HUD Secretary. Check him out here giving a junior journalista an interview at the Javits Center as it all unravels for Hillary:

    https://youtu.be/KHqQtSpTfGE?t=301
  154. @Tiny Duck
    Democrats are the fastest growing political group in the US. They're having more children, 50% or so younger generations are Democrats and remain so as they age, Democrats are moving to Republican dominated states and most People of Color are Liberal.

    Foreigners essentially.

    # mass immigration

  155. @Reg Cæsar

    graham is acting like a high school bully
     
    Because boys don't hit girls, or even hurt their feelings.

    I remember those playground rules from a half-century ago. Glad to see someone else keeping them alive.

    Think I might start ignoring the people who quote him, too.

  156. @Twinkie

    Why did the Norse, English, and Scots emigrate there?
     
    They went as mercenaries, freibooters, and adventurers. Ireland was divided and chaotic and thus offered opportunities for such men who might be unsupported or unwelcome in their native lands. And it was close by.

    Many Scots were invited as mercenaries periodically by local rulers.

  157. @Chrisnonymous
    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don't find any evidence--or claims by people who could know--that she received her positions because of "being a minority."

    What is true is that the very vocal denial by everyone that she received AA benefits should work to counter the impression she is trying to create of being a minority.

    The vocal denials also appear to undercut AA per se, much as her genetic testing undercuts "race is a social construct." Harvard professors: "Benefitted from AA? No! Never! How could you think that?!"

    The one is more than enough appearance of impropriety for the other.

  158. @Twinkie

    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.
     
    Ireland was Britain’s Korea. Or was it Korea that was Japan’s Ireland?

    No, all but Ulster subdued long before Spains rise as a great power. Possibly best to stay away from amatuer history hour on here.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Spain became a great power in Europe in 1519 when the King of Spain Charles 1 also became Charles 5 Holy Roman Emperor when his grandfather Emperor Macmillan died.

    That was a few years before Spain became a great colonial power. Bohemia to Sicily, Spain ruled most of continental W and Central Europe but for Poland, France, the Papal and the far northern German states along the Baltic for decades

    England didn’t get serious about Ireland until
    Queen Mary Tudor asserted control over Ireland in the 1540s,Complete control wasn’t achieved till
    James 1 became King 50 years later.

  159. @Chrisnonymous

    'I’ve been told my grandmother was part Cherokee Indian. It may all just be talk.... I think I can beat her.'
     
    Ladies just cannot stop competing, can they?

    Seriously, I think this is a stupid stunt by Graham. The message he seems to be sending is that she has so little, anyone might have more. But that's not true.
    He has no DNA: public thinks, "why did he pull that stunt? she does, he doesn't... weirdo!"
    He has less DNA: Doh! public: Loser!
    He has more DNA: public: Graham and Warren are cousins! How can he mistreat her?

    He has less: public laughs, claps Lyndsie on the back, tells him “nice try.”
    He has more: public laughs uproariously, Fauxcahontas never lives it down, as long as she lives.

    Truth is he’s already won.

  160. @Desiderius
    She’s toast. Can’t win D nomination without blacks (see Sanders, B.) and blacks are tired of Beckys cutting in on their AA already. A white Becky double-dipping by pretending to be of color?

    Oh Hell no!

    She won’t do this,

    but the correct move would be to have allies attack the Cherokees for contesting blacks on the tribal rolls. The point would be to maintain plausible deniability.

  161. @Steve in Greensboro
    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.

    It’s not fraud without damages. What are the damages?

    • Replies: @Anon
    The damages would be the salary and pension she received as an affirmative action professor.

    Also her law degree is worth money. That would be the average salary of an attorney if she ever practiced law.
  162. @Iberiano
    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as "Cherokee" (google to see first source references of her various claims over the last few decades). She also claimed her mother had to elope, due to her father's family not wanting him to marry an Indian. But even if her mother was, prospectively, double the amount of NA, Warren possibly has (that scientifically debatable), she was not Indian either, nor recognized by any tribe. It was also demonstrated, they didn't elope.

    Warren absolutely benefited by her false claim of NA ancestry, and permitted herself to be listed/referred to as a person of color, a "Cherokee" and NA on more than one occasion, without correction. The defense to that of course, is similar to all women who are called out and held to be accountable..."genius", strong, independent, women, suddenly don't know how to call Senators (Dr. Blah Blah), or how to correct an obvious "error" in a college report, etc. We all know, of course they know how to do that, it's only after the fact that we have 'brilliant' women, like Hilary, that claim they don't know what "Top Secret" printed at the top of an email, actually means.

    But don't take it from us...just want till Kamala Harris gets to interrogate her during the DNC primaries :) Actually, never mind, Warren may not even going to make past a few months of her own parties' primary, at best, before dropping out like Elizabeth Dole did for the RNC. She won't take the heat. Once the "real" brown people start bashing her, her candidacy will dissolve. It will only last as long as it remains a local interest story with other Anglo-Puritans in the North East.

    Yes, she did lie more than once. I can agree with that, and I hope this fiasco damages her political career because she’s about the best candidate the Democrats can offer.

  163. @Lot
    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    "Don't hoot may cuz I'm hoootiful"

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/26/36/05/5890418/5/920x920.jpg

    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    I wish he’d put that hat back on!

  164. @Steve Sailer
    People from Breton in France who speak the native Celtic language can go to Wales and more or less talk with Welsh speakers.

    No, they can’t. Welsh and Breton are much too far apart. I can give detailed evidence if you need it.

  165. All you need to know is that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duke, and acts like a duck, it’s a duck.

  166. @PhysicistDave
    Bem Tillman wrote:

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them.
     
    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don't.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    We do not need to play the Left's tribalist game of our skin color vs. their skin color. We can stand for justice.

    As alien as that concept might seem in 2018.

    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don’t.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    But she would have opened up a slot for someone who did deserve it.

    • Replies: @Svigor
    Good point.
  167. @Bubba
    Dude, like I thought you said you starred in Idiocracy ? And how's your skateboardin' with 3 wheels?

    https://spiritofthething.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/hoap-president-elizondo.jpg?w=317&h=421

    Hah! Great sign.

  168. @istevefan
    Don't get too excited about Lindsey yet. He still has not shown he is on our side on the biggest issue that we face, immigration.

    According to Fox, Graham wants to grant DACA amnesty for a wall.
    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1052182377533865984

    Lindsey Graham was a rabid supporter of the Rubio-Obama Illegal Alien Amnesty — Mass Immigration Surge bill(S 744) of June of 2013.

    Lindsey Graham’s immigration bill(S 744) would have doubled or tripled legal immigration and it would have given amnesty to upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders.

    US House Speaker at the time, Boehner, killed the Lindsey Graham immigration bill(S 744) in the US House in order to prevent a bloody civil war in the GOP over immigration.

    Lindsey Graham Is A Treasonous Politician Whore.

  169. @Steve Sailer
    People from Breton in France who speak the native Celtic language can go to Wales and more or less talk with Welsh speakers.

    Some of the Bretons came over to England with William the Conqueror for a little pay back.

    The Saxons and Angles had booted the Bretons out of Britain and some came back to finish some business.

    Rees-Mogg is a Welshman, I think.

  170. @Iberiano
    A group of the Celts most likely came from Northern Spain, traveled up the French Coast (Brittany, a Celtic region) and then landed in what is today Wales and Ireland--which accounts for the genetics being similar. It was faster travel, and "closer" than land travel. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic and even have bagpipes, not to mention very similar phenotypes.

    And the Spanish are Celtic!

    Heck, aren’t we all Latino? I mean, the Romans invaded Britain and occupied it. If i have English ancestry, then I must be part Latin, right?

    • Replies: @Anon
    The wording of Republican Richard Nixon’s executive order specifies Hispanics are people from Spain or any country that was ever a colony. Portugual and Portuguese colonies are excluded.
  171. @eah
    https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1052287909095776258

    Lindsey Graham has never stopped pushing for amnesty for illegal alien invaders.

    Lindsey Graham has never stopped pushing for massive increases in legal immigration.

  172. @Anonymous

    Watch what’s happening to Warren right now. Trump hammered “Pocahontas” and she failed his shit test (not to mention her DNA test)
     
    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.

    To bad she chose the NAM party then. Good luck making that case to them.

  173. @Digital Samizdat
    What's the deal with being part Cherokee? Have you ever noticed that White people who claim to be part Indian almost invariable claim Cherokee ancestry? Why never Algonquin, Hopi, or Nez Perce? Always Cherokee. Were they just more promiscuous than the other tribes, I wonder?

    In all my life, I have met only one man claiming to be part Indian who named a tribe other than the Cherokee: he said that he was half-Osage, which made sense, since he came from Oklahama where there's a massive Osage rez. But apart from him, all the rest claimed to be Cherokee. Strange ...

    Plenty of Navajo in AZ and NM. Still Utes in Utah. Go there and you’ll meet white people claiming some of that heritage.

    In CA we have a ton of tribal types, whose names never come up, running casinos on “sacred land”. Around my area there are plenty of museums with artifacts from the Maidu Indians, but I’ve never met any of their possible descendants, mixed or not.

    We had an employee who claimed to be a full-blooded CA Indian, but she never named the tribe. She was rather embarrassed about her drunken relatives, including her father who still wanted to live in the forest and sleep under an old blanket on the ground. Turns out the forest service frowns on such behavior, and private landowners freak out when unexpected campfires appear. He was arrested a zillion times, but I found myself sort of enchanted by his wildness.

  174. @Steve Sailer
    Guys called Tex generally don't live in Texas.

    Exactly!

    And Abe Lincoln’s forebear who moved away from Lincolnshire and bored everyone senseless with stories about the place he’s never going back to would be called Lincoln whether he was previously known as Carpenter, Clark or whatever.

    One of Lawrence Block’s early “Keller” hitman stories, “Keller on Horseback”, set in Wyoming has the dastardly Manhattanite try the immortal line “Call me Tex” to the great amusement of the woman he’s trying to pick up. Very recently I saw a possible inspiration for that one (and another name used in the story) in the Bertha Cool/Donald Lam novel “Up For Grabs.”

    Anyway, back at the ranch, so to speak, place name nicknames will be used somewhere else. And in societies where proper names are recycled endlessly, some methods of differentiation are necessary.

  175. @Lot
    There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America.

    “There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America.”

    The Irish population in Latin America is so extremely minuscule that even Jews greatly outnumber them there.

    Nobody would ever mistake Latin America for Boston or Worcester.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Bernardo O'Higgins is the only one I can think of, Che as well. Irish preferred the Anglo colonies.
    , @Anon
    There were a fair amount of Irish who built the Mexican railroads. Movie star Anthony Quinn was the grandson of one. That’s the only Latin American country I know of that had a substantial Irish immigration.
  176. Anonymous[188] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iberiano
    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as "Cherokee" (google to see first source references of her various claims over the last few decades). She also claimed her mother had to elope, due to her father's family not wanting him to marry an Indian. But even if her mother was, prospectively, double the amount of NA, Warren possibly has (that scientifically debatable), she was not Indian either, nor recognized by any tribe. It was also demonstrated, they didn't elope.

    Warren absolutely benefited by her false claim of NA ancestry, and permitted herself to be listed/referred to as a person of color, a "Cherokee" and NA on more than one occasion, without correction. The defense to that of course, is similar to all women who are called out and held to be accountable..."genius", strong, independent, women, suddenly don't know how to call Senators (Dr. Blah Blah), or how to correct an obvious "error" in a college report, etc. We all know, of course they know how to do that, it's only after the fact that we have 'brilliant' women, like Hilary, that claim they don't know what "Top Secret" printed at the top of an email, actually means.

    But don't take it from us...just want till Kamala Harris gets to interrogate her during the DNC primaries :) Actually, never mind, Warren may not even going to make past a few months of her own parties' primary, at best, before dropping out like Elizabeth Dole did for the RNC. She won't take the heat. Once the "real" brown people start bashing her, her candidacy will dissolve. It will only last as long as it remains a local interest story with other Anglo-Puritans in the North East.

    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as “Cherokee”.

    Warren is in fact Native American. She is of Native American descent. That fact does not require “recognition” by a “tribe.”

    “Membership” in certain “tribes” may be required to receive benefits from certain institutions such as the US federal government, but that is a separate question. There is no suggestion Warren claimed she was on the “membership” rolls of the “Cherokee” organization.

    Trump should focus his energy on educating Americans on the harm done to them by immigration.

    • Replies: @Anon
    She checked the box before the tribes began to force institutions to require a tribal certificate. The tribes soon got wise to the scam.
  177. @Steve Sailer
    The Cherokee were the most advanced American Indians. Sequoyah invented an alphabet for them around 1810 and by the later 1820s they had a newspaper. They got thrown out of the Southeast because they weren't dying out like other tribes, they were thriving. Their chief in the 1830s, John Ross, was 7/8ths white because they figured he would be better at arguing their case at the Supreme Court.

    A similar case: the Navajo out west weren't that numerous a few centuries ago, but they got good at Spanish trades, such as sheepherding and blanket-making, and proliferated.

    No it was the Red Stick wars. Whites stopped caring about the distinction between the radicals and Christian Cherokee. Much like China with the Uighurs.

  178. @Twinkie

    She passed her DNA test. She has proven Indian ancestry.
     
    Yeah, she proved that she’s 531/532th white, but was masquerading as a Cherokee, going so far as to contribute American Indian recipes (with mayo and canned crab).

    As I commented on Razib Khan’s site:

    When you lose Dana Milbank…

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/join-my-tribe-elizabeth-warren/2018/10/16/3fb0867e-d181-11e8-b2d2-f397227b43f0_story.html

    Among the many unfortunate results of Warren’s recent DNA test suggesting she’s somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1,024th Native American by ethnicity: It inevitably draws attention to her contribution to the ’80s cookbook, “Pow Wow Chow: A Collection of Recipes from Families of the Five Civilized Tribes.”

    Under “Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee,” it lists five recipes, three of which were apparently cribbed from the New York Times and Better Homes and Gardens.

    Worse, one of the recipes she submitted: “Crab with Tomato Mayonnaise Dressing.” A traditional Cherokee dish with mayonnaise, a 19th-century condiment imported by settlers? A crab dish from landlocked Oklahoma? This can mean only one thing: canned crab.

    Warren is unfit to lead.
     
    Well-played, mein Führer, well-played.

    That is to be expected from Milbank. He is motivated by anti-White animus. Here, he is just trying to prevent any White Americans from claiming race-based benefits, governmental and social.

  179. @Tiny Duck
    Funny watching you guys cheering on the GOP turning the US into an idiocracy


    graham is acting like a high school bully

    TD – you’ve fallen off lately. Your work is no longer as amusing as it once was. You’re beginning to sound too much like the shrill fools you once so successfully lampooned. Maybe you should take a break, rest up, let the creative juices restore themselves so that once more they will flow freely.

  180. @Chrisnonymous
    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don't find any evidence--or claims by people who could know--that she received her positions because of "being a minority."

    What is true is that the very vocal denial by everyone that she received AA benefits should work to counter the impression she is trying to create of being a minority.

    The vocal denials also appear to undercut AA per se, much as her genetic testing undercuts "race is a social construct." Harvard professors: "Benefitted from AA? No! Never! How could you think that?!"

    Why would Warren be any less deserving of AA benefits than any other “minority”?

  181. @Steve Sailer
    The Cherokee were the most advanced American Indians. Sequoyah invented an alphabet for them around 1810 and by the later 1820s they had a newspaper. They got thrown out of the Southeast because they weren't dying out like other tribes, they were thriving. Their chief in the 1830s, John Ross, was 7/8ths white because they figured he would be better at arguing their case at the Supreme Court.

    A similar case: the Navajo out west weren't that numerous a few centuries ago, but they got good at Spanish trades, such as sheepherding and blanket-making, and proliferated.

    Digital Samizdat:

    The Cherokee (living primarily in NC, SC, TN, and GA) were not only somewhat advanced (compared
    to other tribes) but, very early on, developed amicable relations of all sorts with the new settlers
    (white, British) in the area. Their men sometimes courted (and were often welcomed by the white settler families) settler daughters as well as their daughters marrying settler men. My guess is that
    the Indians generally “looked up” to the whites as being a bit more advanced (civilization-wise) than were they–quickly adopting as many of the newcomers’ ways as practical.

    In a certain sense, it is probable that the Cherokee’s civilizational status formed the basis of their behaviors ultimately leading to their dispossession and removal (“trail of tears”) to the Oklahoma
    reservation, including loss of much” lawful of the eastern land considered “theirs”). They chose to and then support the British in the revolutionary war. Why? Very simple–they were just behaving lawfully–in support of the “lawful,” established (British) government.

    What led, ultimately, to their downfall and dispossession was not simply white settlers coming in
    and settling. Rather, it was that GOLD !!! had been discovered–first in central-western North Carolina and then in and around the river flowing down from the Smokies, through western NC,
    and on down through South SC and GA.

    The Cherokee pursued every, Andrew legal route to the possession of even a small fraction of what had previously been theirs exclusively. In all, there were seven trials, the last of which was in USSC, and all of which were decided in favor of the Cherokee claim. Then-President, Andrew Jackson, famously proclaimed, “The Supreme Court has made their decision–let’s see them enforce it!”
    He ordered the immediate removal of the Cherokee to assigned land in Oklahoma AND the arrest
    and detention of all of the justices of the Supreme Court. These latter managed to disperse and hide out until Jackson’s ire had subsided sufficiently but the dispossession of the Cherokees began.

    Today, there are Cherokees living on their own privately-owned land here and there but only one concentration–on a reservation in western NC consisting of land not fully conquered by the troops
    of the U.S.–and, thus, officially declared a reservation. Today (and for many years), it’s a tourist
    attraction featuring a major casino, Indian concessions of every type, motels of every sort, a drama
    (“Trail of Tears”) played regularly for visitors in a natural amphitheater, and even “gold-panning” in the Oconoluftee River (Oconoluftee-”man with one ball hanging down,” according to an old
    Cherokee woman–Mrs. Taylor– recognized as expert in Cherokee language and history).

  182. @Hippopotamusdrome
    OT


    Tech suffers from lack of humanities, says Mozilla head

    Mitchell Baker says firms should hire philosophy and psychology graduates to tackle misinformation

    Technology companies need to diversify their hiring practices to include more people from backgrounds in philosophy and psychology if they want to tackle the problem of misinformation online, the head of one of the biggest internet charities has warned.

    “But one thing that’s happened in 2018 is that we’ve looked at the platforms, and the thinking behind the platforms, and the lack of focus on impact or result. It crystallised for me that if we have Stem education without the humanities, or without ethics, or without understanding human behaviour, then we are intentionally building the next generation of technologists who have not even the framework or the education or vocabulary to think about the relationship of Stem to society or humans or life.”

    Baker is chairwoman* of the Firefox developer and its parent non-profit organisation

     

    * cis!

    Ok. The chairwoman can demonstrate her sincerity by re-hiring Brendan Eich. Not holding my breath here.

  183. @Lowe
    Maybe they just messed up their server software somehow.

    Nah. It’s those tiny chips the ChiComms slipped onto all the server boards.

  184. @FO337
    So many girls have needed that, and yet I could never bring myself to do it.

    I guess they really do do the jobs we Americans won't.

    Bah, a bunch of Mexicans acting Mexican. Makes for good theater.

  185. @Chrisnonymous
    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don't find any evidence--or claims by people who could know--that she received her positions because of "being a minority."

    What is true is that the very vocal denial by everyone that she received AA benefits should work to counter the impression she is trying to create of being a minority.

    The vocal denials also appear to undercut AA per se, much as her genetic testing undercuts "race is a social construct." Harvard professors: "Benefitted from AA? No! Never! How could you think that?!"

    She allowed herself to be promoted as a NA Indian at several law schools, but I don’t find any evidence–or claims by people who could know–that she received her positions because of “being a minority.”

    The disparity between her educational background and her positions later held provides decent evidence that she was hired for diversity purposes. Warren went to Rutgers law school. I can’t find any rankings from the 70s, but Rutgers sure as hell isn’t an elite law school now. If it ever was one I can’t find any evidence of it. It’s usually ranked somewhere between 40-70 nowadays. She somehow leveraged this middling background into positions with Penn, a traditional elite school, and then Harvard, one of the tiny handful of the very best schools. It looks weird.

    I went to a second tier law school, though one typically ranked well ahead of Rutgers. I do not recall a single professor having attended a law school of a clearly lower rank than the one they were currently teaching at. The clear majority had gone to a superior school, though, and many had attended one of the very few best ones. In short, moving up the ranks appears to be tough. Unsurprisingly.

    Obviously this is far from definitive. My experience was in recent memory, whereas Warren went to school in the 70s. Perhaps people were less obsessed with academic background then, and maybe it was more common for truly elite students not to end up at the non-elite universities. I dunno anything about her professional career, maybe she really did prove herself to be on the level expected at Harvard.

    Or maybe she got a leg up exploiting her phony background.

  186. @Jefferson
    "There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America."

    The Irish population in Latin America is so extremely minuscule that even Jews greatly outnumber them there.

    Nobody would ever mistake Latin America for Boston or Worcester.

    Bernardo O’Higgins is the only one I can think of, Che as well. Irish preferred the Anglo colonies.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's a short story by James Joyce about a Dublin lady pondering emigrating to Buenos Aires.
    , @Jefferson
    "Bernardo O’Higgins is the only one I can think of, Che as well. Irish preferred the Anglo colonies."

    The Irish can not tan worth a damn, so it's obvious why humid tropical Latin America was not a popular destination for the potato famine Irish compared to four seasons U.S and Canada.

    It's a lot easier for Lebanese, Syrians, Spaniards, Portuguese, and Italians to adapt to Latin America's weather compared to Northwest Europeans.

  187. @Sunbeam
    Associated with this whole thing is the apparent fact that American Indians (our North Americans ones), are very hesitant to take these DNA tests.

    With that fact, exactly how reliable are any of the DNA tests at finding American Indian ancestry?

    In other words, is it possible that if you had taken the DNA test, and the results said you DIDN'T have Indian ancestry, might in fact you do?

    There are a lot of tribes that are gone now. Some just gone, but others whose descendants are absorbed into whites and whatever is going on with Oklahoma reservations.

    I have verifiable 100% Native American ancestors into the 20th century and a DNA test taken by one of my nieces showed none, so I am quite skeptical as to their accuracy.

  188. @Twinkie

    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.
     
    Ireland was Britain’s Korea. Or was it Korea that was Japan’s Ireland?

    My brother!

  189. @Anonymous

    Irish, like Swiss and Scots, had a healthy reputation as Continental mercenaries;
     
    How is this relevant to the discussion?

    It’s a logical and, in contrast to Armada shipwreckees, historically attested explanation for immigration.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How does it explain immigration INTO Ireland?
  190. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    Actually not Only 3 ships got to Ireland. One washed up on the Dingle Penninsula in the west on the Atlantic. Don’t know the name of the ship. One survivor he was sent as POW to England then back to Spain.

    The San Juan Baptista and San Juan de Portugal survived because there was n expert navigator on the Baptista who’d been in those waters before. The other ship followed her. They landed more or less intact in a town on the east coast on the Irish Sea

    The Irish locals started murdering the crew so they’d have the right of salvaging the ships The English garrison intervened saved the crew put chains on them and sent them off to London. They were sent back to Spain

    It’s a useful myth, go for it.

    If you’re Italian remember that Spain ruled much of Italy for centuries. French? Find a Corsican ancestor.

    Jilles ‘ grandchildren can claim Hispanic status too if they come to the USA.

  191. @Anonymous

    No. She did commit fraud, because she is not a Native American, which requires actual tribal affiliation, and she referred to herself as “Cherokee”.
     
    Warren is in fact Native American. She is of Native American descent. That fact does not require "recognition" by a "tribe."

    "Membership" in certain "tribes" may be required to receive benefits from certain institutions such as the US federal government, but that is a separate question. There is no suggestion Warren claimed she was on the "membership" rolls of the "Cherokee" organization.

    Trump should focus his energy on educating Americans on the harm done to them by immigration.

    She checked the box before the tribes began to force institutions to require a tribal certificate. The tribes soon got wise to the scam.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    She checked the box before the tribes began to force institutions to require a tribal certificate. The tribes soon got wise to the scam.
     
    It wasn't a scam. She has proven Indian ancestry.
  192. @Jefferson
    "There are Spanish surnames in Ireland and Irish surnames in Spain and Latin America."

    The Irish population in Latin America is so extremely minuscule that even Jews greatly outnumber them there.

    Nobody would ever mistake Latin America for Boston or Worcester.

    There were a fair amount of Irish who built the Mexican railroads. Movie star Anthony Quinn was the grandson of one. That’s the only Latin American country I know of that had a substantial Irish immigration.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "There were a fair amount of Irish who built the Mexican railroads. Movie star Anthony Quinn was the grandson of one. That’s the only Latin American country I know of that had a substantial Irish immigration."

    People with Irish ancestry do not even register 1% of Mexico's population, which means not even 1 out of 100 Mexicans is a Patty Wagon.

    If you are less than 1% of a nation's population you are insignificant.
  193. @Anonymous

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.
     
    She didn't "pretend" to be Amerindian. She is in fact of Amerindian descent. If an Amerindian deserved it, she deserved it.

    And that's setting aside your questionable claim that anyone "deserves" a position because he or she is Amerindian or Black.

    She didn’t “pretend” to be Amerindian. She is in fact of Amerindian descent. If an Amerindian deserved it, she deserved it.

    And that’s setting aside your questionable claim that anyone “deserves” a position because he or she is Amerindian or Black.

    Not to mention the further questionable position that anyone could possibly “deserve” a professorship at Harvard.

  194. @stillCARealist
    And the Spanish are Celtic!

    Heck, aren't we all Latino? I mean, the Romans invaded Britain and occupied it. If i have English ancestry, then I must be part Latin, right?

    The wording of Republican Richard Nixon’s executive order specifies Hispanics are people from Spain or any country that was ever a colony. Portugual and Portuguese colonies are excluded.

  195. @Anonymous

    The point is not “who is the bigger Indian?” The point is, E. Warren unethically LIED about her racial heritage in order to a) gain unfair career advantage over her fellow whites, and b) in doing so, unethically deprived an ACTUAL Indian of precious AA career advancement.
     
    She didn't lie. She does in fact have Indian ancestry.

    This whole thing is an attack on core heritage Americans, especially White Southerners, because many of them have Indian ancestry.

    She doesn’t have Indian ancestry. .4 isn’t Indian ancestry

    One of the DNA companies has a category Amer Indian East Asian. East Asia starts at the China Russia border. So it could be a real 1700s Amer Indian or some Mongol raider in Hungary a thousand years ago.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    She doesn’t have Indian ancestry. .4 isn’t Indian ancestry.
     
    Uh, actually it is precisely Indian ancestry.

    And all the other facts are supportive of the DNA result: Family lore; European ancestry in the United States going back centuries; Oklahoma origins; facial bones.
  196. @Svigor
    Scamming it isn't wrong, either. Cheating at a rigged game is morally neutral. If anything, following the rules of a rigged game is immoral because it promotes and legitimizes rigged games.

    Warren's violation is one of hypocrisy; she's violated a leftist value (follow the rules of the rigged, anti-white game).

    None of this applies to those of us on the right who don't advocate those rules, never mind those of us who loudly oppose them. For the latter, scamming affirmative action is a mitzvah.

    I agree

  197. @Steve Sailer
    Guys called Tex generally don't live in Texas.

    Guys called Tex generally don’t live in Texas.

    I’ll be damned. Tex Schramm was named “Texas Earnest Schramm” because Texas was his father’s name (and where his parents met). But he did go to UT and live in Texas. I get my hair cut in the same barber shop he and Brandt and Landry used to get theirs cut in.

  198. @istevefan
    Don't get too excited about Lindsey yet. He still has not shown he is on our side on the biggest issue that we face, immigration.

    According to Fox, Graham wants to grant DACA amnesty for a wall.
    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1052182377533865984

    Graham is currently training with myself and other gay reactionary bodybuilders. I think once we get him deadlifting four plates he’ll want to go down there and build that wall himself.

    Paradigms, like physiques, take time to grow and develop.

  199. @Chrisnonymous

    'I’ve been told my grandmother was part Cherokee Indian. It may all just be talk.... I think I can beat her.'
     
    Ladies just cannot stop competing, can they?

    Seriously, I think this is a stupid stunt by Graham. The message he seems to be sending is that she has so little, anyone might have more. But that's not true.
    He has no DNA: public thinks, "why did he pull that stunt? she does, he doesn't... weirdo!"
    He has less DNA: Doh! public: Loser!
    He has more DNA: public: Graham and Warren are cousins! How can he mistreat her?

    The only way for Warren to draw even was not to play.

    Graham isn’t in the same boat as she was. Personally him being 10% black along with 1% NA would be hilarious.

  200. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Ireland was a long-time beachhead for various Catholic incursions into Protestant England.
     
    Ireland was Britain’s Korea. Or was it Korea that was Japan’s Ireland?

    Only one I can think of is the the war between the exiled King of England James2 and the Dutch Prince William of Orange who defeated James in the Battle of the Boyne 1690s

    Maybe you’re thinking of the 1790s Protestant United Irishmen revolution led by Irish Protestants like Wolfe Tone with some military help from the extremely secular militantly anti Catholic French revolutionary government which outlawed the Catholic Church and made it a death penalty offense to be a Catholic priest in France. That was a Protestant Colony’s revolution against a Protestant colonial power

  201. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    when you don’t have the megaphone
     
    Twinkie, you ordered one megaphone, extra sauce?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052387851088867330

    You can’t shame the shameless.
     
    Yes and no. Alinsky’s ‘rules’ can be modified, just like any other rules. Exposing hypocrisy in one’s enemies need not induce in them “shame” (how Oriental! gonnngggg)—instead, relentlessly discrediting the pretentiously pious can be enough for peacetime political purposes. Trump doesn’t scold like a schoolmarm—he instead makes the hypocrites into ridiculous figures of fun. This causes major damage to the viability of his targets.

    They, in turn, are initially held back by a reflexive twinge of “shame”—call it residual false propriety—where they are by nature reluctant to get fully into the ‘dirt’ and hit him back personally in the same way. And part of what holds them back is they either have no real convictions, or their convictions are truly spiteful, and they want to avoid saying what they really believe. Trump is a genius at getting the sputterers to spitefully spit.

    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/258584864163500033

    I’m dead at the gong reference.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Chalk it up to regression to the mean. :)
  202. @Bugg
    Mother's family name on both sides in Leitrim on the northeast coast of Ireland was Reynolds. Some claim it was a play on "Reynos", Spanish for the king's men, from a group of Armada survivors who became part of the community. Though there are other instances of that name appearing in the UK that have nothing to do with the wreck of the Armada.

    Others claim the name Reynolds comes from Swiss soldiers in William the conquerors army. It’s as much BS as the Spanish Armada soldiers.

    From ancient times there was s lot . of trade between Iberia N Africa and the British Isles, water transport being easier than land.

  203. @Iberiano
    I am curious how the use of DNA will factor in affirmative action policy (if not court cases) in the future. It's of particular interest to me because as most of you know, there is no "quantum blood" requirement, nor even cultural definition of being "Hispanic" or "Latino". Here on the West Coast, I am seen as I am, a "white hispanic", nevertheless, in-group--even though I am only of Spanish descent (no Indigenous blood). However, there are Latino/Hispanics that are nearly completely black (Islanders) or Indigenous (Peru/Bolivia) that have no Spanish blood.

    There are Hispanics in the US (and Latin America) with non-Spanish last names, attesting to their German, or Jewish heritage. In other cases, there are Latinos from Tennessee who "look" stereotypical of Latinos, but do not speak Spanish and have little, if any, cultural association with the what most would consider Latino/Hispanic culture.

    What does this mean for A/A for Latino/Hispanics (which I would argue is pretty limited already, compared to blacks and white women)? Latino advocates routinely go out of their way to note "there isn't a particular look, or culture" (which is true), but one gets the sense, like being Jewish (to some degree), this is a way to set the narrative so that none of us are culturally, linguistically or genetically litmus tested.

    All the federal government requires to claim "Hispanic", is, among all the Latin America nations, a cultural or ancestral tie to Spain. That's literally tens of millions of Americans, including Filipino immigrants and their descendants.

    Where does this all lead to? What if Warren had claimed "Hispanic" and her DNA came back 5, 10, or even 25 percent Iberian? It's not like tribal affiliation, which has actual standards per tribe, or being "black" which typically is obvious to the eye. Hispanic isn't and we've gone out of our way to make sure people know that. So what is the future for A/A in light of that? Especially with mixed marriages?

    “Where does this all lead to? What if Warren had claimed “Hispanic” and her DNA came back 5, 10, or even 25 percent Iberian? It’s not like tribal affiliation, which has actual standards per tribe, or being “black” which typically is obvious to the eye.”

    You do not have to be obvious to the eye Black in phenotype in order to get affirmative action goodies set aside for African Americans, just ask Benjamin Jealous and G.K Butterfield.

    Benjamin Jealous is genetically 81% European which is by a huge landslide way more than the average 20% European ancestry found in African Americans.

  204. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hank Yobo
    The Wild Geese

    https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/03/14/the-wild-geese-a-brief-history-irelands-foreign-armies/

    The Wild Geese were Irish who had the money and sense to get out in the 1560 to 1630 period when the English confiscated the property the native Irish. They went to the continent, bought land asserted their aristocratic lineage and thrived
    The most successful and famous are the Hennessy cognac family

    They were named Geese because like wild geese, they had the means to get out and escape 350 years of being the most badly treated of all England’s colonies

    The Irish who served in numerous armies over the centuries weren’t the Wild Geese.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    Thanks for the clarification. However,

    "More broadly, the term Wild Geese is used in Irish history to refer to Irish soldiers who left to serve in continental European armies in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries."

    The quote comes from this source:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Wild_Geese

  205. @Lot
    Kanye West on backward digit recall:

    -I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I was connected with a neuropsychologist that works with the athletes in the NBA and the NFL. And he looked at my brain — it’s equal on three parts. I’m going to go ahead drop some bombs for you — 98 percentile IQ test. I had a 75 percentile of all human beings, but it was counting eight numbers backwards, (inaudible), so I’m going to work on that one. The other ones, 98 percent — Tesla, Freud-

    Heh! I heard part of that interview, and was reminded of this classic scene from Vernon, FL:

  206. @ben tillman
    It's not fraud without damages. What are the damages?

    The damages would be the salary and pension she received as an affirmative action professor.

    Also her law degree is worth money. That would be the average salary of an attorney if she ever practiced law.

  207. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Wikepedia, what a crock.

    I suppose it’s unbelievable N Europeans could have black hair and brown eyes. Scots Shawn Connery’s darker than any Irishman I’ve ever seen. The current Queen of England, her parents and sister all had very dark brown hair. I suppose that makes them Black English

  208. ‘I think I can beat her.’

    Beating her would mean you were a low born Oklahoman nobody that scammed an Ivy League institution into giving you a faculty appointment.

  209. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Simple Psuedonym
    No, all but Ulster subdued long before Spains rise as a great power. Possibly best to stay away from amatuer history hour on here.

    Spain became a great power in Europe in 1519 when the King of Spain Charles 1 also became Charles 5 Holy Roman Emperor when his grandfather Emperor Macmillan died.

    That was a few years before Spain became a great colonial power. Bohemia to Sicily, Spain ruled most of continental W and Central Europe but for Poland, France, the Papal and the far northern German states along the Baltic for decades

    England didn’t get serious about Ireland until
    Queen Mary Tudor asserted control over Ireland in the 1540s,Complete control wasn’t achieved till
    James 1 became King 50 years later.

  210. @Lot
    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    "Don't hoot may cuz I'm hoootiful"

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/26/36/05/5890418/5/920x920.jpg

    He looks more light skinned black than Hispanic whether Spanish or Indian

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "He looks more light skinned black than Hispanic whether Spanish or Indian"

    Plenty of Hispanics look like light skinned Blacks. Have you ever been to Florida or New York?
  211. @AnotherDad
    Didn't a bunch of ships of the Spanish Armada get blown into shoals and rocks of Ireland.

    The Queen's soldiers probably eventually hung most of the Spanish who got onshore. But certainly some of them must have been around long enough to plant their flag, no?

    I'm Hispanic!

    The sloop Nuestra Senora del Socorro (75 tons) anchored at Fenit, in Tralee Bay on the coast of Kerry, where she was surrendered to crown officers. The 24 men on board were taken into custody and marched to Tralee Castle. On the orders of Lady Margaret Denny, they were all hanged from a gibbet.

    There’s a typical story for you. It happened just by the Cliffs of Moher. Not much assimilation happening there.

    The major gene flow from the Iberian peninsula to Ireland happened long before the Armada.

    The Irish people are in fact a hybrid race created by Iberian, British and Scandinavian gene flow over thousands of years. The black type, BTW, is much more represented in the West of Ireland, which was also the poorest region and hence the greatest source of immigrants to the Americas.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The Irish people are in fact a hybrid race created by Iberian, British and Scandinavian gene flow over thousands of years. The black type, BTW, is much more represented in the West of Ireland, which was also the poorest region and hence the greatest source of immigrants to the Americas.
     
    Are any differences observed among the Irish sub populations on psychometric tests?
  212. @LondonBob
    Bernardo O'Higgins is the only one I can think of, Che as well. Irish preferred the Anglo colonies.

    There’s a short story by James Joyce about a Dublin lady pondering emigrating to Buenos Aires.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    And the Recoleta Cemetery in Buenos Aires has a surprisingly large number of tombs of Irish people. It’s a UNESCO World Heritage site and worth a visit. The Firpo (Bull of the Pampas of the “Long Count” bout with?Dempsey) monument is tremendous.
  213. @Anon
    The Wild Geese were Irish who had the money and sense to get out in the 1560 to 1630 period when the English confiscated the property the native Irish. They went to the continent, bought land asserted their aristocratic lineage and thrived
    The most successful and famous are the Hennessy cognac family


    They were named Geese because like wild geese, they had the means to get out and escape 350 years of being the most badly treated of all England’s colonies

    The Irish who served in numerous armies over the centuries weren’t the Wild Geese.

    Thanks for the clarification. However,

    “More broadly, the term Wild Geese is used in Irish history to refer to Irish soldiers who left to serve in continental European armies in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries.”

    The quote comes from this source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Wild_Geese

  214. @eah
    We can't have that.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpml_RYUcAA-8Zn.jpg

    Jesus Christ. The turpitude of these ‘people’ knows no bounds.

  215. @TelfoedJohn
    Elizabeth Warren, who is 23% Andamanese, shared this delightful foodie anecdote in her book North Sentinel Snacks:

    Paulie was in a year for contempt and he had this wonderful system for doing the garlic. He used a razor and he used to slice it so thin that it would liquefy in the pan with just a little oil. It was a very good system

     

    Philly Leotardo wanted manicott’. He compromised. He ate grilled cheese off the radiator.

    You see where I’m goin’ with this?

  216. @bored identity
    bored identity is still pretty, pretty sceptical about The Last Amigo's change of heart.

    But then again, acting suddenly like a based sh!tlord can be a powerful afrodiziac when you crawl through senatorial-midlife crisis.


    Therefore:

    https://postimg.cc/qNCTcnSx

    https://i.postimg.cc/Qdfd3Jqw/GRAHAMBO-First-Blood.jpg

    https://i.postimg.cc/4Xg7p8Hf/GRAHAMBO-First-Blood.jpg




    That looks like Mackenzie Phillips.

  217. @Anon
    There were a fair amount of Irish who built the Mexican railroads. Movie star Anthony Quinn was the grandson of one. That’s the only Latin American country I know of that had a substantial Irish immigration.

    “There were a fair amount of Irish who built the Mexican railroads. Movie star Anthony Quinn was the grandson of one. That’s the only Latin American country I know of that had a substantial Irish immigration.”

    People with Irish ancestry do not even register 1% of Mexico’s population, which means not even 1 out of 100 Mexicans is a Patty Wagon.

    If you are less than 1% of a nation’s population you are insignificant.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Most left Mexico in the late 19th early 20th century. The railroads were built no reason to stay especially during the 1910 to 1930 war.
  218. @Anon
    He looks more light skinned black than Hispanic whether Spanish or Indian

    “He looks more light skinned black than Hispanic whether Spanish or Indian”

    Plenty of Hispanics look like light skinned Blacks. Have you ever been to Florida or New York?

    • Replies: @Anon
    Those are Puerto Rican and Cuban descendants of black slaves. I’m used to Mexicans, White Indian mix
  219. @LondonBob
    Bernardo O'Higgins is the only one I can think of, Che as well. Irish preferred the Anglo colonies.

    “Bernardo O’Higgins is the only one I can think of, Che as well. Irish preferred the Anglo colonies.”

    The Irish can not tan worth a damn, so it’s obvious why humid tropical Latin America was not a popular destination for the potato famine Irish compared to four seasons U.S and Canada.

    It’s a lot easier for Lebanese, Syrians, Spaniards, Portuguese, and Italians to adapt to Latin America’s weather compared to Northwest Europeans.

  220. @Svigor
    They're educational. I've heard the name many times, but had no idea; only now do I truly understand.

    Hoolian looks like a freaking West Hollywood rent boy in that pic. What’s with the blond thing? Where is Latinx pride, where is down for brown? He sure looks a lot crazier than when he was HUD Secretary. Check him out here giving a junior journalista an interview at the Javits Center as it all unravels for Hillary:

    https://youtu.be/KHqQtSpTfGE?t=301

  221. @Steve Sailer
    There's a short story by James Joyce about a Dublin lady pondering emigrating to Buenos Aires.

    And the Recoleta Cemetery in Buenos Aires has a surprisingly large number of tombs of Irish people. It’s a UNESCO World Heritage site and worth a visit. The Firpo (Bull of the Pampas of the “Long Count” bout with?Dempsey) monument is tremendous.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Firpo (Bull of the Pampas of the “Long Count” bout with?Dempsey) monument is tremendous.

    Yup. It's great.

    https://media.historiahoy.com.ar/adjuntos/231/imagenes/000/009/0000009290.jpg

  222. @Cortes
    And the Recoleta Cemetery in Buenos Aires has a surprisingly large number of tombs of Irish people. It’s a UNESCO World Heritage site and worth a visit. The Firpo (Bull of the Pampas of the “Long Count” bout with?Dempsey) monument is tremendous.

    The Firpo (Bull of the Pampas of the “Long Count” bout with?Dempsey) monument is tremendous.

    Yup. It’s great.

  223. @ben tillman

    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don’t.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.
     
    But she would have opened up a slot for someone who did deserve it.

    Good point.

  224. @PhysicistDave
    Bem Tillman wrote:

    If she took a spot from an Indian, then she HELPED her fellow whites by saving a spot for one of them.
     
    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites. The issue is people who deserve it vs. people who don't.

    If she got the position because she pretended to be an Amerindian, then she is one of the people who did not deserve it.

    We do not need to play the Left's tribalist game of our skin color vs. their skin color. We can stand for justice.

    As alien as that concept might seem in 2018.

    And if someone got the position because he genuinely was Amerindian, he didn’t deserve it.

    We need to be clear on this: you’re complaining that someone undeserving got rewarded in a system designed to reward the undeserving.

    Conservatives really have a lot of shitty takes.

    No: the issue is not whites vs. non-whites.

    For you. Not the issue, for you. For non-whites it is. For pro-whites it is.

  225. @Anonymous

    Warren committed fraud. For some reason, she is too stupid to drop it. But then, she is a progressive.
     
    She did not commit fraud. She has proven she has Indian ancestry. Many Southerners do.

    Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    October 17, 2018 at 9:05 am GMT

    Ignored. Interesting how many Anons are dumpster fires.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Interesting how many Anons are dumpster fires.
     
    Agreed. Be nice if Ron forced everyone to pick a nom de Steve so we'd have an idea which d******d we were dealing with.
  226. @Steve Sailer
    My best friend is from an upscale Irish American family (his father dropped out of Yale to fight in WWII) and looks highly Irish. But he has a Spanish surname. The family story is it comes from a Spanish admiral of the Armada who was shipwrecked in Ireland in 1588. He didn't know whether to believe that.

    But there was a certain amount of Ireland to Spain back and forth over the centuries. In Thomas Flanagan's "Year of the French" about the Irish uprising in 1798, one set of characters are wealthy Irish Catholics in the wine trade with Spain. I think they would go to Spain when English oppression in Ireland got too bad and come home when it loosened up.

    Dr. Stephen Maturin in the O'Brian sea stories is half Irish - half Catalan.

    I had always thought that the Armada diaspora was where the ‘black Irish’ came from.

    • Replies: @Anon
    It’s a total myth I’ve no idea where it came from.
  227. @Jack Hanson
    I'm dead at the gong reference.

    Chalk it up to regression to the mean. :)

  228. @Svigor

    Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    October 17, 2018 at 9:05 am GMT
     
    Ignored. Interesting how many Anons are dumpster fires.

    Interesting how many Anons are dumpster fires.

    Agreed. Be nice if Ron forced everyone to pick a nom de Steve so we’d have an idea which d******d we were dealing with.

  229. @LondonBob
    Ireland was always envisaged as the launching point for invasion of the British mainland by the French, Spanish then Germans. Like the Ukraine for Russia, or France's and their eastern flank, securing Ireland was necessary for self defence.

    Necessary for economic exploitation is more like it.

  230. @J.Ross
    It's a logical and, in contrast to Armada shipwreckees, historically attested explanation for immigration.

    How does it explain immigration INTO Ireland?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I would return this question to illustrate what it is, but that wouldn't get through moderation.
  231. @Anon
    She checked the box before the tribes began to force institutions to require a tribal certificate. The tribes soon got wise to the scam.

    She checked the box before the tribes began to force institutions to require a tribal certificate. The tribes soon got wise to the scam.

    It wasn’t a scam. She has proven Indian ancestry.

    • LOL: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Anon
    No she doesn’t It’s 1/1024.
  232. @Anon
    She doesn’t have Indian ancestry. .4 isn’t Indian ancestry

    One of the DNA companies has a category Amer Indian East Asian. East Asia starts at the China Russia border. So it could be a real 1700s Amer Indian or some Mongol raider in Hungary a thousand years ago.

    She doesn’t have Indian ancestry. .4 isn’t Indian ancestry.

    Uh, actually it is precisely Indian ancestry.

    And all the other facts are supportive of the DNA result: Family lore; European ancestry in the United States going back centuries; Oklahoma origins; facial bones.

  233. Anonymous[188] • Disclaimer says:
    @Roderick Spode

    The sloop Nuestra Senora del Socorro (75 tons) anchored at Fenit, in Tralee Bay on the coast of Kerry, where she was surrendered to crown officers. The 24 men on board were taken into custody and marched to Tralee Castle. On the orders of Lady Margaret Denny, they were all hanged from a gibbet.
     
    There’s a typical story for you. It happened just by the Cliffs of Moher. Not much assimilation happening there.

    The major gene flow from the Iberian peninsula to Ireland happened long before the Armada.

    The Irish people are in fact a hybrid race created by Iberian, British and Scandinavian gene flow over thousands of years. The black type, BTW, is much more represented in the West of Ireland, which was also the poorest region and hence the greatest source of immigrants to the Americas.

    The Irish people are in fact a hybrid race created by Iberian, British and Scandinavian gene flow over thousands of years. The black type, BTW, is much more represented in the West of Ireland, which was also the poorest region and hence the greatest source of immigrants to the Americas.

    Are any differences observed among the Irish sub populations on psychometric tests?

  234. @Lot
    Whoooolian Castro throws his hat in the ring!

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/julian-castro-2020-president-run-738584/

    "Don't hoot may cuz I'm hoootiful"

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/26/36/05/5890418/5/920x920.jpg

    Back when the mainstream media was in love with Julian Castro he was being called the Mexican Barack Hussein Obama.

    But now that the mainstream media’s honeymoon with him is over, Julian Castro has become the Mexican Evan McMullin in that he has a zero percent chance of ever becoming POTUS.

    The ghost of Barry Goldwater has a higher chance of becoming POTUS than Julian Castro.

    • Replies: @Lot
    "The Mexican Evan McMullin"

    Hahahahaha.

    Such memories. During Peak McMuffin I took the other side of a bet that Trump wouldn't win Utah.
  235. @Anonymous

    She checked the box before the tribes began to force institutions to require a tribal certificate. The tribes soon got wise to the scam.
     
    It wasn't a scam. She has proven Indian ancestry.

    No she doesn’t It’s 1/1024.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No she doesn’t It’s 1/1024.

    That's Indian ancestry right there, bub. You have admitted it yourself.
  236. @gsjackson
    I had always thought that the Armada diaspora was where the 'black Irish' came from.

    It’s a total myth I’ve no idea where it came from.

  237. @Anonymous
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish#Black_Irish

    Black Irish is an ambiguous term sometimes used (mainly outside Ireland) as a reference to a dark-haired phenotype appearing in people of Irish origin.[36] However, dark hair in people of Irish descent is common, although darker skin complexions appear less frequently.[37] One popular speculation suggests the Black Irish are descendants of survivors of the Spanish Armada, despite research discrediting such claims.[38] In Bob Quinn's documentary series Atlantean, he explores an alternative 'Iberian' hypothesis, proposing the existence of an ancient sea-trading route skirting the Atlantic coast from North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula to regions such as Connemara. While preferring the term "The Atlantean Irish", Quinn's reference to certain phenotypical characteristics (within elements of the Irish populace and diaspora) as possible evidence of a previous Hibernian-Iberian (and possibly Berber) admixture mirrors common descriptions of the Black Irish.[39]
     

    Wikipedia,

  238. @Iberiano
    A group of the Celts most likely came from Northern Spain, traveled up the French Coast (Brittany, a Celtic region) and then landed in what is today Wales and Ireland--which accounts for the genetics being similar. It was faster travel, and "closer" than land travel. Asturias and Galicia are Celtic and even have bagpipes, not to mention very similar phenotypes.

    3,000 years before the Armada

  239. @Peter Lund
    *All* of Europe had bagpipes.

    True. The English suppressed them in Scotland and Ireland also the Irish harp.

  240. @Stolen Valor Detective
    My Intro to Philosophy professor really takes the cake in terms of Rube Goldberg Machine minority ancestry speculation.


    He might look like a regular white guy, but actually he's part black. How can this be, you ask? Well, he's Irish, and part of the Spanish Armada got blown off course to Ireland, and there were Moorish crew members of the Armada, and the locals obviously welcomed and intermarried with the Spaniards, so...hesto presto, he's actually part black!

    (Let it be noted that I have found the professor in question to be generally quite charming and engaging as an instructor, and I think he is quite apt at teaching the material at a level suitable for the median student. [I'm taking the class to round out my credits/as a lark.])

    1 The last of the moors were kicked out of Spain 96 years before the Armada.
    2 The very few Armada crew who landed were quickly captured and sent to England and back to Spain

  241. @Jefferson
    "He looks more light skinned black than Hispanic whether Spanish or Indian"

    Plenty of Hispanics look like light skinned Blacks. Have you ever been to Florida or New York?

    Those are Puerto Rican and Cuban descendants of black slaves. I’m used to Mexicans, White Indian mix

  242. @Anonymous
    How does it explain immigration INTO Ireland?

    I would return this question to illustrate what it is, but that wouldn’t get through moderation.

  243. @Jefferson
    "There were a fair amount of Irish who built the Mexican railroads. Movie star Anthony Quinn was the grandson of one. That’s the only Latin American country I know of that had a substantial Irish immigration."

    People with Irish ancestry do not even register 1% of Mexico's population, which means not even 1 out of 100 Mexicans is a Patty Wagon.

    If you are less than 1% of a nation's population you are insignificant.

    Most left Mexico in the late 19th early 20th century. The railroads were built no reason to stay especially during the 1910 to 1930 war.

  244. @Anon
    No she doesn’t It’s 1/1024.

    No she doesn’t It’s 1/1024.

    That’s Indian ancestry right there, bub. You have admitted it yourself.

  245. @Steve Sailer
    The Cherokee were the most advanced American Indians. Sequoyah invented an alphabet for them around 1810 and by the later 1820s they had a newspaper. They got thrown out of the Southeast because they weren't dying out like other tribes, they were thriving. Their chief in the 1830s, John Ross, was 7/8ths white because they figured he would be better at arguing their case at the Supreme Court.

    A similar case: the Navajo out west weren't that numerous a few centuries ago, but they got good at Spanish trades, such as sheepherding and blanket-making, and proliferated.

    Very interesting, Steve. I didn’t know all that about the Cherokee. Thanks for the reply.

  246. @Jefferson
    Back when the mainstream media was in love with Julian Castro he was being called the Mexican Barack Hussein Obama.

    But now that the mainstream media's honeymoon with him is over, Julian Castro has become the Mexican Evan McMullin in that he has a zero percent chance of ever becoming POTUS.

    The ghost of Barry Goldwater has a higher chance of becoming POTUS than Julian Castro.

    “The Mexican Evan McMullin”

    Hahahahaha.

    Such memories. During Peak McMuffin I took the other side of a bet that Trump wouldn’t win Utah.

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