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I’ve been writing about lesbian eugenics since this 2000 article in VDARE on how Melissa Etheridge and Jodie Foster went about selecting sperm donors. (Etheridge always struck me as just sort of a lesbian Bob Seger, but Foster is a pretty interesting person.) So, thanks to everybody who sent me versions of this story. From the Daily Mail:

White lesbian mother sues sperm bank after she gave birth to mixed-race baby because she was sent black man’s sperm

Jennifer Cramblett says fears her daughter won’t be accepted by her racist family and neighbors her small, all-white Uniontown, Ohio

Hardships including having to go to a ‘black neighborhood’ to get her daughter’s hair cut, where she was ‘not overtly welcome’

Ms Cramblett says Midwest Sperm Bank mixed up her order and sent her sperm vials from the wrong donor

They paid $400 each for six vials of the wrong sperm, they say

It used to be that there was virtually no customer choice in the fertility business. Slate’s editor David Plotz pointed out in his 2005 book The Genius Factory: The Curious History of the Nobel Prize Sperm Bank:

“In this first generation of AID [Artificial Insemination by Donor], doctors tyrannized their patients. When a red-faced couple appeared at the office, mumbling about infertility, the doctor told them he would take care of everything. Mothers were discouraged from asking questions about the donor. The doctor did a little poking around for a suitable donor—often the closest medical student at hand. The doctor would make sure the donor was the right skin color—white parents got white donors. If the doctor was feeling benevolent, he would also try to match the eye color of the father.”

The liberator was eugenicist Robert K. Graham, who started the so-called “Nobel Prize Sperm Bank” with donations from William Shockley and Jonas Salk. Plotz wrote:

“Robert Graham strolled into the world of dictatorial doctors and cowed patients and accidentally launched a revolution…All he wanted to do was propagate genius. But he knew that his grand experiment would flop unless women wanted to shop with him… So Graham did what no one in the business had ever done: he marketed his men…

“His Repository catalog was very spare … but it thrilled his customers. Women who saw it realized, for the first time, that they had a genuine choice… Thanks to its attentiveness to consumers, the Repository upended the hierarchy of the fertility industry. Before the Repository, fertility doctors had ordered, women had accepted… Mother after mother said the same thing to me: she had picked the Repository because it was the only place that let her select what she wanted.

“Where Graham went, other sperm banks — and the rest of the fertility industry—followed… All sperm banks have become eugenic sperm banks.”

But I’ve always wondered about quality control in the sperm bank industry. If a lesbian demands, say, at least a 1400 SAT score, how does she know that some jerkoff didn’t just make up his score? Are there industry-wide quality control systems now in place, or is it still the Wild West?

 
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  1. Or, um, some jerkoff staff member replaces the genius juice with his own seed? Medical staff have done worse – like Charles Cullen – who killed 40(?) patients for kicks.

    • Replies: @Realist
    "....jerkoff..."

    Good one!
  2. “Etheridge always struck me as just sort of a lesbian Bob Seger… ”

    I’ve watched at Wimbledon, but Steve’s passing shots are in another class.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    And I really like Bob Seger. The link goes to him performing "Ramblin Gamblin Man" (a worthy Creedence-style should-have-been-a-hit) on a groovy Sixties TV show. But his career didn't go anywhere and everybody outside of Detroit forgot about him. In Detroit, a great music city, he was a god, though. Finally, a live in Detroit album got national attention and he was a superstar in the later 1970s. I gather there's some sort of copyrights problem around his songs today, although I don't understand it exactly. And his reputation is weighted down by everybody hearing "Old Time Rock and Roll" at 100 weddings. But you probably haven't heard its predecessor "Rock and Roll Never Forgets" enough.
  3. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I, um, did this in college for a couple semesters. At least through the place I did it at, which appeared legitimate, there was no quality control. I was given a phone survey about various things, including academics, family medical history, my own medical history, but there was nothing stopping me from lying my ass off. They did do a physical and blood tests for venereal diseases, but no genetic testing, and certainly no confirmation of SAT score. Hell, they didn’t even ask for a student ID from the campus next door that I said I was going to.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Rice Alum 4
    Anon, does the phrase "pump it up, suck it down, here comes Brown" ring a bell?
    , @josh
    Are you really comfortable with the fact that you might have a son or daughter that you will never meet?
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "I, um, did this in college for a couple semesters. At least through the place I did it at, which appeared legitimate, there was no quality control. I was given a phone survey about various things, including academics, family medical history, my own medical history, but there was nothing stopping me from lying my ass off. They did do a physical and blood tests for venereal diseases, but no genetic testing, and certainly no confirmation of SAT score. Hell, they didn’t even ask for a student ID from the campus next door that I said I was going to."

    This was identical to my experience as well, when I briefly fulfilled this role at a facility adjacent to my university campus. I think they asked to see my student ID, but otherwise I could have lied about any other detail.
  4. @Gilbert P
    "Etheridge always struck me as just sort of a lesbian Bob Seger... "

    I've watched at Wimbledon, but Steve's passing shots are in another class.

    And I really like Bob Seger. The link goes to him performing “Ramblin Gamblin Man” (a worthy Creedence-style should-have-been-a-hit) on a groovy Sixties TV show. But his career didn’t go anywhere and everybody outside of Detroit forgot about him. In Detroit, a great music city, he was a god, though. Finally, a live in Detroit album got national attention and he was a superstar in the later 1970s. I gather there’s some sort of copyrights problem around his songs today, although I don’t understand it exactly. And his reputation is weighted down by everybody hearing “Old Time Rock and Roll” at 100 weddings. But you probably haven’t heard its predecessor “Rock and Roll Never Forgets” enough.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    And another good rocker in Katmandu!
    , @E. Rekshun
    And his reputation is weighted down by everybody hearing “Old Time Rock and Roll” at 100 weddings. But you probably haven’t heard its predecessor “Rock and Roll Never Forgets” enough.

    "Turn the Page" is my favorite! Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band were pretty popular in the late '70s/early '80s at my large suburban Boston high school.
  5. I’ve been thinking about eugenics lately and what I find interesting is what will happen if/when we create artificial sperm/eggs.

    It could is put a damper on “lesbian eugenics” as they could have biological related children. It will be interesting to see how such children come out.

    People may be able to grab someone elses dna without sex… and reproduce with that person without their knowledge. Here’s an academic paper that discusses the legal aspects of that happening.

    Artificial gametes and the ethics of unwitting parenthood
    http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2014/06/27/medethics-2013-101824.short

    The real “designer babies” may come if people are given a pass to create gametes from embroys created by parents and donors. Parents would be giving birth to their biological grandchildren. This would allow people to have children that look (somewhat) like themselves while increasing the chances of their children having good genes.

    (Black) Markets could emerge of highly desired people’s DNA to be used for meshing/grafting rather than to be direct half biological parents.

    [edit]
    There’s apparently a word for this form of “designer baby”… Multiplex parenting

    Multiplex parenting: IVG and the generations to come.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24608087

  6. Now that I think about it, Bob Seger and Rod Stewart seem pretty similar. Born the same year, both raspy singers, both way above average lyricists for the rock era. Stewart’s career got started faster as the vocalist for big league guitarists like Jeff Beck and Ronnie Wood in Faces and playing on his spectacular solo album Every Picture Tells a Story (“Maggie May” and much else).

    Seger, I seem to recall, had guitar problems. For awhile, he wanted to be his own lead guitarist but eventually decided he just wasn’t good enough. He didn’t become a national star until he was 31 with “Night Moves” in late 1976. Today it doesn’t seem strange for somebody to take that long to become a famous rock star, but back then it was pretty unusual for there to a brand new rock star who was a full-fledged grown-up. “Night Moves” was kind of like the rock era version of Sinatra’s “When I Was 17.”

    Seger maintained his dignity in the 1970s better than Stewart, although I’d probably rank Stewart’s early peak highest of the two.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Nope, it was Live Bullet, released in April 1976. Katmandu, Turn the Page, Nutbush City Limits, Beautiful Loser, Ramblin' Gamblin' Man, etc. KISS, of all bands, took Seger on the road to open for their Destroyer tour, and their show at the old Cape Cod Coliseum in August of '76 was great. KISS, to their credit, gave Seger a full set and 2 encores.

    Interestingly, both Live Bullet and Night Moves sold 5+ million copies.
    , @E. Rekshun
    I’d probably rank Stewart’s early peak highest of the two.

    Stewart's '71 hit "I'm Losing You" is a great rock & roll song!
  7. So, thanks to everybody who sent me versions of this story.

    LOL! When I saw that story come across the news wire today, the first thought that popped in my head was “now that’s a Steve Sailer classic right there.”

    The couple’s “we’re totes not racist, you guys, swearsies!!!” excuses and rationalizations are hilarious.

    • Replies: @eah
    excuses and rationalizations

    For what? I'm not sure why they feel compelled to say anything -- to give "excuses and rationalizations". It's a simple case of failing to fulfill a contract -- they paid/contracted for semen from a white male with a certain profile, and instead got semen from a black male. They should just keep their mouths shut about everything else.

    Perhaps the most surprising thing about this -- other than that such a shocking error could occur -- is how much they supposedly paid for the semen.

    They paid $400 each for six vials of the wrong sperm, they say

    Seems like a business opportunity there -- it should not be difficult to undercut that price and still make a bundle.
  8. BTW, apparently the full text to that multiplex parenting paper is free…

    http://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/2014/03/24/multiplex-parenting-in-vitro-gametogenesis-and-the-generations-to-come/

    And if you google about “multiplex parenting”, apparently it’s been widely discussed in the bioethics blogs.

    Here’s a Vice interview…
    http://www.vice.com/read/scientists-are-working-out-how-to-make-a-baby-with-yourself

  9. anon • Disclaimer says:

    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent. He just appears to be a bully with pretensions at intellectualism–pretensions that would be amusing if not for how seriously he is taken. I just looked at his Twitter, and he calls his tweets “mental musings.” Most of these affirmative action geniuses are eventually exposed for what they are. What is the under/over for how long this takes to happen to Tyson?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.

    Because Columbia University awards doctoral degrees in astrophysics to unintelligent people and the American Museum of Natural History hire them as managers.
    , @JayMan

    Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.
     
    I'll bet good money that he's a lot smarter than you are.

    Jesus...
    , @Marty
    Are they really exposed, though? I remember when Leon Wieseltier did his takedown of Cornel West. Should have been devastating, but it didn't seem to slow his career much.
    , @Anonymous
    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.

    Dude, come on. Tyson is brilliant.
  10. some jerkoff

    Very droll Steve.

  11. Priss Factor [AKA "pizza with hot pepper"] says:

    https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/shoppe

    Hey, let’s play some frisbee.

  12. He didn’t become a national star until he was 31 with “Night Moves” in late 1976. Today it doesn’t seem strange for somebody to take that long to become a famous rock star,

    Somewhere … possibly even on your blog, Steve, I can’t remember … I recall reading the suggestion that this is the reason that there’s so little radical innovation in modern pop music. (The last really creative, innovative pop song I can recall was Outkast’s “Hey Ya!”, which came out more than a decade ago.) It used to be that talented performers became big stars early in their careers, when they were still learning the ropes. Then their early success provided them the luxury and freedom to mess around and experiment while they were in the process of honing their craft. (At least according to this interpretation.)

    Now, though, stars are expected to come to the table with a fully-developed skillset; there is no more “on the job training,” as it were. This has led to a higher quality of musical craftsmanship but a lower level of innovation: The required skills take years to develop, but by the time they are “ready for prime time,” artists are starting to get older, and radical innovation is a young man’s game.

    Or perhaps this has always been the norm in the world of music, and the post World War II explosion in musical creativity was an exception, driven by a profusion of new technology? (I’d argue that the last real major innovation in pop music — the rise of hip-hop, which, remember, is now about 35 years old, or nearing middle-age — was almost entirely the result of new technology; namely, the easy availability of equipment that gave performers an unprecedented degree of control over pre-recorded sound.)

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    Looking back, it seems there was a brief period from the mid 50s to sometime in the 70s when popular music became simple enough to make (didn't need an 8 piece brass band and 3 harmony singers), but recording and sound system equipment wasn't good enough that people would just listen to a record played at a club. They wanted it live.

    My perception (this is not from memory, I was born in the 80s) is that there are maybe 20% as many live bands playing on any given American Friday night as there would have been 50 years ago. If the total number of kids playing little league declined to 1/5th, we would have worse MLB players.
    , @Whiskey
    It is both new technology and a youth cohort. Better mics let singers lead a smaller stripped down group, no more big bands just small groups with a hot vocalist (say leading from Duke Ellington to Sinatra). But the key to musical innovation was a youth cohort that could support experimental styles.

    For example, from Elvis to say, the New Wave guys in Northern England and the US, you had lots and lots of clubs where people could play, get paid something, get some level of fame and accomplishment, and hone their performances and musical style in what amounted to the minor leagues.

    When say, Depeche Mode or the Smiths or Psychedelic Furs hit big, it was behind lots of experimentation to see what their audiences really responded to, melodic reverb being one of them to use an example.

    We have more powerful and cheaper MIDI devices allowing all sorts of opportunities to create new and different tones often polyphonic. Yet we lack the critical (White) youth cohort in sufficient numbers to create the dive type places where a substantial group of young people will attend, without lots of violence, and pay substantial amounts of money to see, purchase the recordings, and so on.

    Like Stalin said, quantity has its own quality.
  13. A White Lesbian does not want to be the mother of a Black girl. I can not say I am completely surprised that a White Homosexual would be prejudice against the Coloreds.

    The late J. Edgar Hoover had a negative opinion of the Blacks and he was a Homosexual.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The late J. Edgar Hoover had a negative opinion of the Blacks and he was a Homosexual.

    I would refer you to Arthur Schlesinger's remarks and Ralph de Toledano's remarks on the 'biographical' literature which made that claim. Schlesinger offered he'd be pleased to see Hoover tainted, but the author's sourcing and evidence were tripe; de Toledano noted that the contentions about Hoover had been investigated before and debunked before. Mark Felt offered the opinion that people had misinterpreted the bond between Hoover and Clyde Tolson: Tolson was a brother-substitute, not a butt-buddy.
    , @Andrew Jackson
    You're not surprised a white homosexual is prejudiced against blacks? I'm not surprised anyone is prejudiced against blacks.
  14. Priss Factor [AKA "pizza with hot pepper"] says:

    You can’t make this stuff up.

  15. I like Bob Seger too. ‘You’re still the one’ was a coming of age song for me. Possibly literally… (It was in the car cassette a lot in 1978-9.) But still, I know what you mean about Melissa E.

  16. In Detroit, a great music city, he was a god, though.

    Detroit’s (and Memphis’) music history deserves a Sailer discussion.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Steve, thanks for interesting articles and discussion.

    "Detroit, a great music city..."

    Eminen, ICP
    MC5, the Nuge, Seger, Bill Haley, White Stripes
    Temptations, Stevie, Four Tops, Aretha, Spinners
    Jackie Wilson, Wilson Pickett, George Clinton / PF
    JD Souther, Glenn Frey

    Kid Rock fits his own category
  17. @Mr. Blank
    So, thanks to everybody who sent me versions of this story.

    LOL! When I saw that story come across the news wire today, the first thought that popped in my head was "now that's a Steve Sailer classic right there."

    The couple's "we're totes not racist, you guys, swearsies!!!" excuses and rationalizations are hilarious.

    excuses and rationalizations

    For what? I’m not sure why they feel compelled to say anything — to give “excuses and rationalizations”. It’s a simple case of failing to fulfill a contract — they paid/contracted for semen from a white male with a certain profile, and instead got semen from a black male. They should just keep their mouths shut about everything else.

    Perhaps the most surprising thing about this — other than that such a shocking error could occur — is how much they supposedly paid for the semen.

    They paid $400 each for six vials of the wrong sperm, they say

    Seems like a business opportunity there — it should not be difficult to undercut that price and still make a bundle.

  18. Mickey Rourke’s lip-synching “Feel Like a Number” while assembling a bomb is a great moment in Body Heat. And I’ll admit a pretty big weakness for “Mainstreet.”

  19. I can’t say precisely what the QC standards are for males, but my wife donated eggs prior to our relationship and the standards there are enormous. Full IQ test, psych eval, educational history audit, total health screening down to risk levels for various diseases, they really got at everything.

    I imagine standards are lower for men for obvious reasons.

    • Replies: @anon
    As I said, based on my experience, the QC controls for men are very low, but why is that? Donating eggs is in every way a much more onerous process than donating sperm so one would think that the standards would need to be lowered to meet demand. Or is the demand for sperm much higher than the demand for eggs?
    , @Wilkey
    Egg donation is a costly medical procedure, so the additional fees for background checks probably don't add much, percentage-wise, to the price. If you can afford to pay $50,000 for eggs, you can afford to pay an extra grand or two for some testing.
  20. My brother and I are donor sperm babies. When I was conceived in early 1988, they used fresh samples from interns and residents at Mount Sinai, but I don’t think my parents knew more than that. They may have gotten to specify race and eye/hair color. They were trusting their obstetrician. By the time my brother was conceived (late 1992), his daddy was picked from a catalog.

    It appalls me that we don’t do what other countries do and ban anonymous donor materials. It wasn’t right for my parents and their doctor to deny me a part of my history. The problem is, when donors must be known to the children they create, the donor pool plummets, and homosexuals in particular dislike that.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    Meep, it's a long shot for a couple of reasons, but the sites like 23andme might be able to help you if you want to know these things.

    I say a long shot for a few reasons:

    1) Your "sperm daddy" would have had to take part in the program.

    Honestly though, the odds MIGHT be a little better than that. If a relative of the donor took part in the program, I'd think that a degree of relation would show, and that is about all you would need for a bit of detective work.

    I say the MIGHT, because you remember that old stats things about how many people you need at the party to have two that have the same birthday with a certain degree of confidence? I'd think the same effect would apply here.

    In other words, if say 15$ of Americans randomly took part in 23andme, you have some degree of likelihood of "sharing the same birthday" (being closely related).

    Anyway my two cents.

    2) Using something like this is pretty much up to the whims of the company in question, and the bodies that make our laws. I've read of people that have used these companies in the way I describe, but you have no idea whether they are willing to run that query on their database.

    And to be blunt, a negative result today doesn't mean that future queries wouldn't return a hit as they get more samples.

    I also want to say that "The problem is, when donors must be known to the children they create, the donor pool plummets, and homosexuals in particular dislike that." is a very interesting statement on many levels.
    , @George
    Meep, your situation is sad, but my guess is that, in most cases, it is not about the welfare of the child, but about the egos of the adults involved.
  21. There’s a market for black male sperm donors?

  22. @anon
    I, um, did this in college for a couple semesters. At least through the place I did it at, which appeared legitimate, there was no quality control. I was given a phone survey about various things, including academics, family medical history, my own medical history, but there was nothing stopping me from lying my ass off. They did do a physical and blood tests for venereal diseases, but no genetic testing, and certainly no confirmation of SAT score. Hell, they didn't even ask for a student ID from the campus next door that I said I was going to.

    Anon, does the phrase “pump it up, suck it down, here comes Brown” ring a bell?

  23. Still Wild West. There was a pretty good documentary made a few years back about all this, Donor Unknown. http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/donor-unknown/

    Besides the movie I’ve seen some eye-opening threads on the 23andme forums. The lack of regulation is just shocking. There’s guys out there with hundreds of children… talk about dysgenic.

  24. @meep
    My brother and I are donor sperm babies. When I was conceived in early 1988, they used fresh samples from interns and residents at Mount Sinai, but I don't think my parents knew more than that. They may have gotten to specify race and eye/hair color. They were trusting their obstetrician. By the time my brother was conceived (late 1992), his daddy was picked from a catalog.

    It appalls me that we don't do what other countries do and ban anonymous donor materials. It wasn't right for my parents and their doctor to deny me a part of my history. The problem is, when donors must be known to the children they create, the donor pool plummets, and homosexuals in particular dislike that.

    Meep, it’s a long shot for a couple of reasons, but the sites like 23andme might be able to help you if you want to know these things.

    I say a long shot for a few reasons:

    1) Your “sperm daddy” would have had to take part in the program.

    Honestly though, the odds MIGHT be a little better than that. If a relative of the donor took part in the program, I’d think that a degree of relation would show, and that is about all you would need for a bit of detective work.

    I say the MIGHT, because you remember that old stats things about how many people you need at the party to have two that have the same birthday with a certain degree of confidence? I’d think the same effect would apply here.

    In other words, if say 15$ of Americans randomly took part in 23andme, you have some degree of likelihood of “sharing the same birthday” (being closely related).

    Anyway my two cents.

    2) Using something like this is pretty much up to the whims of the company in question, and the bodies that make our laws. I’ve read of people that have used these companies in the way I describe, but you have no idea whether they are willing to run that query on their database.

    And to be blunt, a negative result today doesn’t mean that future queries wouldn’t return a hit as they get more samples.

    I also want to say that “The problem is, when donors must be known to the children they create, the donor pool plummets, and homosexuals in particular dislike that.” is a very interesting statement on many levels.

  25. Scored a cup on the street of what the guy swore was primo Nobel Peace Prize sperm, vintage 2009; whatever, but I think I got sold some serious bad seed.

    The baby’s already five now, but when he tries to talk on his own, he sputters and stutters or at best utters gibberish; to get him to say anything sensible, you have to spell it out for him, word for word, and get him to repeat it, by rote.

    Friends, family, the neighbors, everyone fawns over the kid like you wouldn’t believe; but he pretty much ignores them all and acts like the world revolves around him alone.

    It’s tough to even get this kid off his rear end; the only thing that seems to interest him–though he gives the impression of being smart–is scribbling on some old papers I left around, blank bracket sheets from past college basketball tournaments.

  26. @meep
    My brother and I are donor sperm babies. When I was conceived in early 1988, they used fresh samples from interns and residents at Mount Sinai, but I don't think my parents knew more than that. They may have gotten to specify race and eye/hair color. They were trusting their obstetrician. By the time my brother was conceived (late 1992), his daddy was picked from a catalog.

    It appalls me that we don't do what other countries do and ban anonymous donor materials. It wasn't right for my parents and their doctor to deny me a part of my history. The problem is, when donors must be known to the children they create, the donor pool plummets, and homosexuals in particular dislike that.

    Meep, your situation is sad, but my guess is that, in most cases, it is not about the welfare of the child, but about the egos of the adults involved.

  27. Rather completely off-topic, but as you often comment about this kind of thing…have you given any thought to the harmless and pleasant new sitcom “Blackish”? I thought it was a particularly Stevish thing, even more so when I noticed the premier episode had the son character angsting over a bar mitzvah, which seems for some odd reason to resonate with most television reviewers…

  28. @Steve Sailer
    Now that I think about it, Bob Seger and Rod Stewart seem pretty similar. Born the same year, both raspy singers, both way above average lyricists for the rock era. Stewart's career got started faster as the vocalist for big league guitarists like Jeff Beck and Ronnie Wood in Faces and playing on his spectacular solo album Every Picture Tells a Story ("Maggie May" and much else).

    Seger, I seem to recall, had guitar problems. For awhile, he wanted to be his own lead guitarist but eventually decided he just wasn't good enough. He didn't become a national star until he was 31 with "Night Moves" in late 1976. Today it doesn't seem strange for somebody to take that long to become a famous rock star, but back then it was pretty unusual for there to a brand new rock star who was a full-fledged grown-up. "Night Moves" was kind of like the rock era version of Sinatra's "When I Was 17."

    Seger maintained his dignity in the 1970s better than Stewart, although I'd probably rank Stewart's early peak highest of the two.

    Nope, it was Live Bullet, released in April 1976. Katmandu, Turn the Page, Nutbush City Limits, Beautiful Loser, Ramblin’ Gamblin’ Man, etc. KISS, of all bands, took Seger on the road to open for their Destroyer tour, and their show at the old Cape Cod Coliseum in August of ’76 was great. KISS, to their credit, gave Seger a full set and 2 encores.

    Interestingly, both Live Bullet and Night Moves sold 5+ million copies.

  29. @anon
    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent. He just appears to be a bully with pretensions at intellectualism--pretensions that would be amusing if not for how seriously he is taken. I just looked at his Twitter, and he calls his tweets "mental musings." Most of these affirmative action geniuses are eventually exposed for what they are. What is the under/over for how long this takes to happen to Tyson?

    Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.

    Because Columbia University awards doctoral degrees in astrophysics to unintelligent people and the American Museum of Natural History hire them as managers.

  30. O/T, but the universe simulation is cooperating again. Today is National Black Dog Day:

    According to the official National Black Dog Day website, the day was started because “too often, black dogs are overlooked because of many stigmas such as; the color black is evil (the same stigma that cats have), black dogs do not show up as well in photographs as muti-colored or light colored dogs and black dogs look scary and intimidating because you cannot see their facial expressions as easily … This special day is devoted to creating public awareness about these beautiful, shiny fur babies that offer just as much unconditional love as any other dog and deserve just as much love back. … Please adopt a black dog and show the world how much light they have inside and out”

    As for Seger, a friend has children who attend the same school as Seger’s children. My friend claims Seger is as down to earth as you could imagine. I respect the guy’s career and work, and would consider myself a moderate fan. Some of his older lyrics are simply great. His song “Like a Rock” is quite good, but Chevrolet beat it to death selling pickups. The one criticism is that he’s had a number of “farewell tours”, which runs counter to what seems to be a very sincere guy. Kid Rock cites Seger as his biggest influence.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The retired actress next door had a black dog before she suddenly had two children in early 40s. He not only had the usual black dog problems involving it's hard for humans to relate to a creature whose eyes don't stand out from his fur, but the dog had all sorts of behavioral problems that she employed an canine psychiatrist to provide expensive therapy for. Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate.
  31. @Jefferson
    A White Lesbian does not want to be the mother of a Black girl. I can not say I am completely surprised that a White Homosexual would be prejudice against the Coloreds.

    The late J. Edgar Hoover had a negative opinion of the Blacks and he was a Homosexual.

    The late J. Edgar Hoover had a negative opinion of the Blacks and he was a Homosexual.

    I would refer you to Arthur Schlesinger’s remarks and Ralph de Toledano’s remarks on the ‘biographical’ literature which made that claim. Schlesinger offered he’d be pleased to see Hoover tainted, but the author’s sourcing and evidence were tripe; de Toledano noted that the contentions about Hoover had been investigated before and debunked before. Mark Felt offered the opinion that people had misinterpreted the bond between Hoover and Clyde Tolson: Tolson was a brother-substitute, not a butt-buddy.

  32. The irony of paying for black semen…

  33. So, Steve, how many people sent in this story?

  34. 1. Mr. eah: The court should refuse to enforce the sperm donor contract for the same reason the USSC said the courts shouldn’t enforce racial covenants in Shelley v. Kramer: it is unconstitutional for the state to enforce racist contracts.

    2. Mr. meep: We are often chastened by lefties that we are not as enlightened as the Europeans when it comes to things like free medical care and generous welfare payments. Curiously, lefties never mention this when it comes to mandatory sperm donor registries. These registries give every donor child the right to know their real father upon reaching majority.

    3. Most importantly: Never, ever, ever make a sperm donation to anyone who knows you or can track you down. State (family) courts routinely ignore donor agreements in the “best interests of the child”. That is why most states statutorily require a doctor as a sperm carrier/intermediary: doctors cannot be compelled to reveal the identity of the sperm donor under the doctor/patient privilege. The child (and hence the state standing in for the child) has interests that trump the donor/recipient interests.

  35. No offense to those above who have given sperm but to my mind the whole thing should be outlawed—at least in the case of unmarried (do I now have to specify that I mean un-straight unmarried) recipients—and that until it is outlawed the race trolls out there should do their best to put falsely labeled semen into the mix.

  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve always wondered why these AID users, lesbians or no, don’t make use of ‘nature’s own syringe’ – and cut-out the middle man, (so to speak), and thus also avoid the possibility of cross references errors, as we see in this case. I mean all that palaver with frozen straws, liquid nitrogen, multiple donors etc could (not so) purely and simply be eliminated, with the right tools for the right job, to coin a phrase, and the ethnicity of the said meat syringe – and its vital load – is known beyond doubt.
    Sorry, but I just cannot understand the mindset that says impregnation in the natural way, by a willing participant is somehow ‘immoral’ whilst a lot of downright horrible meddling and fiddling using all manner of appliances is ‘medical’ and ‘legit’.

  37. ‘Some jerk off didn’t just make up the score’ – Surely beyond pun and into the world of Freudian slips?

  38. A lesbian couple I know went on and on about how awesome their donor was, he was a musician, the son of a lawyer, went to NYU, they met him and he was great, blah blah blah.

  39. Here’s some free legal advice for the sperm banksters: At the trial, have anthropology professors from America’s elite universities testify that race doesn’t exist.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That's pretty funny.
  40. Bob Segar is great. Although time has taken it toll on his body, he’s still rocking at 69 and his voice continues to be raspy, powerful, and solid.

    For an example of his recent stuff, listen to his rocking cover of Wilco’s “California Stars”; the lyrics are by Woody Guthrie (the song is part of the Mermaid Ave. project Wilco did with Billy Bragg).

    http://youtu.be/pvvFOqz90TY

    Also, based on the video, Segar is a reasonably competent rhythm guitarist.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Another way Bob Seger is the American Rod Stewart: the battle of the initials: RS v RS and BS v. BS. Rod Stewart and the Rolling Stones had a long relationship and kind of a competition, with Ronnie Wood going from one to the other. Just as the Stones tended to imitate the Beatles, Stewart was often six months behind the Stones: e.g., "Miss You" and "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" in the disco genre.

    Similarly, it was kind of inevitable that the two B.S.s -- Bob Seger and Bruce Springsteen -- would get compared to, although that was more arbitrary. Springsteen from New Jersey kind of infringed on Seger's Detroit turf with his live medley of Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels songs he released around 1978, but in general they weren't, as far as I know, in the same circles like the Rolling Stones and Rod Stewart were.

  41. @Mark Caplan
    Here's some free legal advice for the sperm banksters: At the trial, have anthropology professors from America's elite universities testify that race doesn't exist.

    That’s pretty funny.

  42. @Jefferson
    A White Lesbian does not want to be the mother of a Black girl. I can not say I am completely surprised that a White Homosexual would be prejudice against the Coloreds.

    The late J. Edgar Hoover had a negative opinion of the Blacks and he was a Homosexual.

    You’re not surprised a white homosexual is prejudiced against blacks? I’m not surprised anyone is prejudiced against blacks.

  43. If only this story could get more media traction, it would create quite the wreck at the intersectionality of race, anti-eugenics and LGBTQMIAPDLOLPLPLTH.

  44. Ivy [AKA "Enquiring Mind"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    And I really like Bob Seger. The link goes to him performing "Ramblin Gamblin Man" (a worthy Creedence-style should-have-been-a-hit) on a groovy Sixties TV show. But his career didn't go anywhere and everybody outside of Detroit forgot about him. In Detroit, a great music city, he was a god, though. Finally, a live in Detroit album got national attention and he was a superstar in the later 1970s. I gather there's some sort of copyrights problem around his songs today, although I don't understand it exactly. And his reputation is weighted down by everybody hearing "Old Time Rock and Roll" at 100 weddings. But you probably haven't heard its predecessor "Rock and Roll Never Forgets" enough.

    And another good rocker in Katmandu!

  45. Paul Revere and Mark Lindsay with Seger’s intro and outro. Good stuff.

  46. @Enderby
    Or, um, some jerkoff staff member replaces the genius juice with his own seed? Medical staff have done worse - like Charles Cullen - who killed 40(?) patients for kicks.

    “….jerkoff…”

    Good one!

  47. I don’t really know why you’re expecting us to cheer for the possible downfall of a TV physicist.

  48. @anon
    I, um, did this in college for a couple semesters. At least through the place I did it at, which appeared legitimate, there was no quality control. I was given a phone survey about various things, including academics, family medical history, my own medical history, but there was nothing stopping me from lying my ass off. They did do a physical and blood tests for venereal diseases, but no genetic testing, and certainly no confirmation of SAT score. Hell, they didn't even ask for a student ID from the campus next door that I said I was going to.

    Are you really comfortable with the fact that you might have a son or daughter that you will never meet?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Are you really comfortable with the fact that you might have a son or daughter that you will never meet?"

    Or that they could meet EACH OTHER and have a baby the old fashioned way, (but one with two heads).
  49. Off topic, but this post and a previous one bring up questions about the spread of Ebola.

    From the WHO website:

    People remain infectious as long as their blood and body fluids, including semen and breast milk, contain the virus. Men who have recovered from the disease can still transmit the virus through their semen for up to 7 weeks after recovery from illness.

    I see two potential issues. The first is that people with low future time orientation act as infectors for a long time. The second is what happens if it gets into the gay community?

    I suppose the third issue is needle drug users.

    Also from the CDC website:

    The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms is 2 to 21 days.

    Can someone with a medical background say if blood/semen is contagious during this time frame?

  50. I don’t know about the universe as a whole, but the Atlantic’s editorial mission might as well be to create as much isteve material as they possibly can-

    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/09/the-gender-politics-of-pockets/380935/

  51. “It appalls me that we don’t do what other countries do and ban anonymous donor materials. It wasn’t right for my parents and their doctor to deny me a part of my history. ”

    I completely agree with you, but when I read up on this a year or so ago there are actually some countries that mandate that sperm donation must be anonymous… looking at wikipedia right now Spain is one of them but I thought there were others…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_donation_laws_by_country

  52. @Mr. Blank

    He didn’t become a national star until he was 31 with “Night Moves” in late 1976. Today it doesn’t seem strange for somebody to take that long to become a famous rock star,
     
    Somewhere ... possibly even on your blog, Steve, I can't remember ... I recall reading the suggestion that this is the reason that there's so little radical innovation in modern pop music. (The last really creative, innovative pop song I can recall was Outkast's "Hey Ya!", which came out more than a decade ago.) It used to be that talented performers became big stars early in their careers, when they were still learning the ropes. Then their early success provided them the luxury and freedom to mess around and experiment while they were in the process of honing their craft. (At least according to this interpretation.)

    Now, though, stars are expected to come to the table with a fully-developed skillset; there is no more "on the job training," as it were. This has led to a higher quality of musical craftsmanship but a lower level of innovation: The required skills take years to develop, but by the time they are "ready for prime time," artists are starting to get older, and radical innovation is a young man's game.

    Or perhaps this has always been the norm in the world of music, and the post World War II explosion in musical creativity was an exception, driven by a profusion of new technology? (I'd argue that the last real major innovation in pop music -- the rise of hip-hop, which, remember, is now about 35 years old, or nearing middle-age -- was almost entirely the result of new technology; namely, the easy availability of equipment that gave performers an unprecedented degree of control over pre-recorded sound.)

    Looking back, it seems there was a brief period from the mid 50s to sometime in the 70s when popular music became simple enough to make (didn’t need an 8 piece brass band and 3 harmony singers), but recording and sound system equipment wasn’t good enough that people would just listen to a record played at a club. They wanted it live.

    My perception (this is not from memory, I was born in the 80s) is that there are maybe 20% as many live bands playing on any given American Friday night as there would have been 50 years ago. If the total number of kids playing little league declined to 1/5th, we would have worse MLB players.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Probably the big band swing era was peak employment for musicians. When my late father-in-law was 16 in the summer of 1945 he toured the country as the tuba player for a swing band. He said the whole high school marching band tradition was to give older horn players, typically veterans coming back from the War, steady jobs as teachers.
  53. noyb says:

    A few years ago, I attended a number of informational meetings for people considering using egg or sperm donors. The format was always the same. Some doctors and lawyers would talk about the medical and legal issues. Then there would be a panel of 3 to 5 couples or single parents who had used donors. They would talk about their experience and answer questions from the audience. One of the questions was always how they had chosen their donor. All but one (more about this odd couple later) described spending days or weeks poring over catalogs of donors. As Chase says, the catalogs contained detailed family histories and information about health, education and athletic achievements for each donor, a picture of the donor and, always for egg donors and usually for sperm donors, an essay by the donor about herself or himself.

    Of the parents who used egg donors, all but one (the odd couple) said that they would not consider any donor who did not show proven exceptional intelligence. They focused on IQ’s, SAT scores, GPA’s (all must be very high), schools attended (only the most selective colleges) and academic majors (a preference for hard majors where a high GPA really means something, rather than soft majors where everybody receives high grades). Parents who used sperm donors were less likely to say intelligence was their top consideration. Many were more concerned about the subjective factors revealed in the personal essays. Artistic talent and athletic ability were the most sought after, but there were also a lot of parents who said that they had chosen a sperm donor whose essay seemed to indicate that he was a happy person. Not surprisingly, lesbians often focused on idiosyncratic factors. Many excluded men who sounded dominant or athletic. I remember one lesbian couple in particular who said that they had excluded all men who reported having body hair. A few lesbians, though, said that they had specifically selected dominant, athletic donors.

    I assume the difference between egg and sperm donees reflected the fact that using an egg donor is a very expensive process that costs $80,000 to $100,000 and sometimes much more. The parents who used egg donors were therefore all rich professionals who thought intelligence was the most important thing in the world. Using a sperm donor is a much cheaper process, costing only a few hundred dollars (and costing nothing for those who use the turkey baster method with a male friend as donor), so parents using sperm donors had a much broader range of incomes and were much more likely not to worship intelligence above all else. You also can’t ignore the fact that professionally accomplished fathers tend to be very competitive and usually seem to take the lead role in choosing egg donors, while mothers tend to be much less competitive and take the lead in choosing sperm donors.

    One thing that both groups cared a lot about was appearance. They wanted good-looking donors. Most also wanted a donor who looked like the infertile parent, so that the child would look like the genetic offspring of both members of the couple. This was even true of gay and lesbian couples — one member of the couple would provide the sperm or womb and the donor would look like the other parent — despite the fact that, of course, everybody would know that it was physically impossible for the child to be genetically related to both parents.

    The odd couple took a different approach. They pointed out that regression to the mean created a large chance that even the smartest egg donor would not produce an exceptionally smart child. They said they suspected that parents who selected for intelligence (or beauty or athletic ability, etc.) and whose child turned out to be average or less would feel as if they had not gotten their money’s worth. (This seems pretty likely to me, considering who the parents were.) The odd couple hadn’t wanted to take the chance of feeling that way about their own child. Reasoning that all of the donors had been screened for good health, they had just opened the catalog and chosen the donor who appeared on the first page they saw. I had to respect them for that, although I wouldn’t have the strength of character to do the same myself.

    As an aside, the reason why using an egg donor is so expensive is that, in most states where the use of surrogate mothers is legal, the law allows her to change her mind and keep the child if it is genetically hers but not if it isn’t. As a result, the almost universal practice is to use both an egg donor and a surrogate (the “carrier”) who is not genetically related to the donor. Both the donor and the carrier receive large fees (donation involves a month of taking a bunch of different hormones and drugs several times a day on a rigid schedule). Then, expensive medical professionals fertilize the egg and implant it in the surrogate. There is a very high failure rate, so the process often must be repeated several times, sometimes involving more than one donor or surrogate, all at additional high cost. Also, implantation of multiple fertilized eggs results in a very high incidence of twins and triplets, which involves the expense of raising more than one child for those parents (they looked like a majority to me) who were unwilling to abort (or “reduce,” as the euphemism goes) the extras.

    A few times, prospective parents in the audience announced that they were going to avoid this expense and use just one woman, a surrogate who would both conceive and carry the child. The lawyers always warned them not to do that. One lawyer said, “If you go ahead with this idea, the surrogate can keep the child and in my experience they will do that 100% of the time.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
  54. @Chase
    I can't say precisely what the QC standards are for males, but my wife donated eggs prior to our relationship and the standards there are enormous. Full IQ test, psych eval, educational history audit, total health screening down to risk levels for various diseases, they really got at everything.

    I imagine standards are lower for men for obvious reasons.

    As I said, based on my experience, the QC controls for men are very low, but why is that? Donating eggs is in every way a much more onerous process than donating sperm so one would think that the standards would need to be lowered to meet demand. Or is the demand for sperm much higher than the demand for eggs?

    • Replies: @Chase
    I have always figured it's the amount of money paid by people looking for eggs. If you're shelling out $25k you are probably more particular than looking for easy-to-come-by sperm.
  55. I don’t know; ‘Turn the Page’ was always the consensus favorite for best Seger song back in the mid 70s in my crowd.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    Great tune, but lyrics about how damned hard it is to be a rock star annoy me. That is the life you chose. Plus, all the hot babes.

    Having said that, I hear Seger genuinely hated the life, and he quit for many years because he couldn't stand being sepaarated from his family. If so, then quitting proved that he wasn't a phony.

    I saw him in '78. He put on a fantastic show. He was genuinely underrated, especailly compared to the worship his contemporary from New Jersey has gotten.
  56. how does she know that some jerkoff didn’t just make up his score?

    Very good Steve.

  57. I’m from Michigan. We get to hear some great Bob Seger that most of the country is sadly missing:
    “Heavy Music” – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0WxMRys9YU
    “Lucifer” – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcuE5a9l5Yc

  58. Now that I think about it, Bob Seger and Rod Stewart seem pretty similar

    But I ask you, does Bob have a large model railway and a front cover of Model Railroader to his credit?

    http://www.therichest.com/expensive-lifestyle/money/rod-stewart-model-train-collection/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Neil Young is also a huge model railroader. He has a severely disabled son and that's their thing they do together.
  59. Should I resist this wave of Schadenfreude coming over me? Naaaah!

  60. “People may be able to grab someone elses DNA without sex…”

    Undercover employee of sperm bank: [snip]

    Genius Olympic Athlete: “Hey, did you just cut off a lock of my hair?!”

    Undercover employee of sperm bank: “What? What are you talking about?”

    Two years later, by dint of DNA evidence, court compels athlete to pay child support.
    ===========
    What poetic justice it would be for the “race is a social construct” crowd to have someone else’s sperm
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0003817/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
    surreptitiously inserted into Mom’s egg. They could bolster their case after, having been raised properly by them and sent to the best schools, their children distinguished themselves in various fields of endeavor.

  61. @Mr. Blank

    He didn’t become a national star until he was 31 with “Night Moves” in late 1976. Today it doesn’t seem strange for somebody to take that long to become a famous rock star,
     
    Somewhere ... possibly even on your blog, Steve, I can't remember ... I recall reading the suggestion that this is the reason that there's so little radical innovation in modern pop music. (The last really creative, innovative pop song I can recall was Outkast's "Hey Ya!", which came out more than a decade ago.) It used to be that talented performers became big stars early in their careers, when they were still learning the ropes. Then their early success provided them the luxury and freedom to mess around and experiment while they were in the process of honing their craft. (At least according to this interpretation.)

    Now, though, stars are expected to come to the table with a fully-developed skillset; there is no more "on the job training," as it were. This has led to a higher quality of musical craftsmanship but a lower level of innovation: The required skills take years to develop, but by the time they are "ready for prime time," artists are starting to get older, and radical innovation is a young man's game.

    Or perhaps this has always been the norm in the world of music, and the post World War II explosion in musical creativity was an exception, driven by a profusion of new technology? (I'd argue that the last real major innovation in pop music -- the rise of hip-hop, which, remember, is now about 35 years old, or nearing middle-age -- was almost entirely the result of new technology; namely, the easy availability of equipment that gave performers an unprecedented degree of control over pre-recorded sound.)

    It is both new technology and a youth cohort. Better mics let singers lead a smaller stripped down group, no more big bands just small groups with a hot vocalist (say leading from Duke Ellington to Sinatra). But the key to musical innovation was a youth cohort that could support experimental styles.

    For example, from Elvis to say, the New Wave guys in Northern England and the US, you had lots and lots of clubs where people could play, get paid something, get some level of fame and accomplishment, and hone their performances and musical style in what amounted to the minor leagues.

    When say, Depeche Mode or the Smiths or Psychedelic Furs hit big, it was behind lots of experimentation to see what their audiences really responded to, melodic reverb being one of them to use an example.

    We have more powerful and cheaper MIDI devices allowing all sorts of opportunities to create new and different tones often polyphonic. Yet we lack the critical (White) youth cohort in sufficient numbers to create the dive type places where a substantial group of young people will attend, without lots of violence, and pay substantial amounts of money to see, purchase the recordings, and so on.

    Like Stalin said, quantity has its own quality.

  62. I know this is an easy target for mockery, but think of it at the level of the mother: how ghastly. I, for one, would have a very difficult time loving a baby of another race, and were I saddled with a mixed-race baby it would have been a very rough haul. I know one couple, white dude with a Hispanic wife. She’s very sweet, very pretty in her very Hispanic way, and all three of their kids look EXACTLY like the mother. Not a lick of the white dad in those kids. How does he look and them and not think, “What the F?”

    Topic 2: Seger’s best song for me is “Against the Wind.” But then it’s very elegiac, and I’m a stone cold sucker for elegiac.

    Topic 3: @ Mr Blank. (The last really creative, innovative pop song I can recall was Outkast’s “Hey Ya!”, which came out more than a decade ago.)

    You want innovative pop? Try Sufjan Stevens (esp the “Michigan” and “Illinoise” albums”) and/or Vampire Weekend (esp. “Modern Vampires of the City,” an album at the level of “Sgt. Pepper” for pure innovation and brilliant, varied pop.)

    If you want not-very-innovative but just-plain-old-brilliant-songwriting then you want The Mountain Goats.

    • Replies: @Bill M
    Surfjan Stevens is probably the most sounding pop music ever. Vampire Weekend is lame too, especially with the Afro-influenced sound.
  63. More proof, Steve, that the universe is just a simulation providing material for your blog.

    I mean, you can’t beat this story with a stick. You’ve got a member of one Officially Designated Victim Group who’s aghast that she gave birth to a member of another Officially Designated Victim Group. So it creates a very uncomfortable question for the limpwristed status-jockeying whitepeople in the gaystream media: Who/whom do they support here? The sodomite or the black community?

    Ah, but the sodomite found the answer for us. You see, SHE has no problem with her mystery-meat child; it’s the rest of her RACISS white community who won’t accept the mystery meat, and so she’s absolved from accusations of crimethink. So the fact that her baby isn’t accepted is the fault of white male heterosexual Christian racism.

    My only analysis is: BwahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

  64. @yaqub the mad scientist
    In Detroit, a great music city, he was a god, though.

    Detroit's (and Memphis') music history deserves a Sailer discussion.

    Steve, thanks for interesting articles and discussion.

    “Detroit, a great music city…”

    Eminen, ICP
    MC5, the Nuge, Seger, Bill Haley, White Stripes
    Temptations, Stevie, Four Tops, Aretha, Spinners
    Jackie Wilson, Wilson Pickett, George Clinton / PF
    JD Souther, Glenn Frey

    Kid Rock fits his own category

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Detroit: That's a pretty good list! To compete, Los Angeles would have to include everybody who moved to town after age 18.
    , @I, Libertine
    And Mich Ryder.

    And not to be a scold, but Aretha isn't from Detroit.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    You left out Smokey Robinson, Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, Marshall Crenshaw and the Romantics.

    Oh, and long before them, the great Richard Whiting, Margaret's dad, who was from Peoria but started his career in Detroit.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    You left out Smokey Robinson, Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, Marshall Crenshaw and the Romantics.

    Oh, and long before them, the great Richard Whiting, Margaret's dad, who was from Peoria but started his career in what was yet to become the Motor City.
  65. Give the baby up for adoption, try again, stop whining.

    But press the lawsuit, of course. The clinic should be made to pay handsomely for their bumbling incompetence.

    Somehow, I doubt her lawyer will be too effective here. I’d be asking the jury if it would be okay to hand a black or white baby to a couple in China, a white or yellow baby to a couple in Africa, a yellow or black baby to a couple in eastern Europe, etc. And then I’d ask if that’s okay, then isn’t it okay to hand all the couples in China black or white babies, all the couples in Africa white or yellow babies, all the couples in Russia yellow or black babies, etc.

  66. As the Kids would say, this truly appalling story “creeps me out”. The real victim is, of course, this heartrendingly unfortunate little girl who, through absolutely no fault of her own, is born unwanted into an “alternate lifestyle choice” home. Shame on all the adults concerned here.

  67. These gals are learning that the traditional selection screen–which guy you let pull your panties off–does have its upside.

    Direct injection–still the best technology!

  68. I’ve been thinking about eugenics lately and what I find interesting is what will happen if/when we create artificial sperm/eggs.

    And artificial wombs or incubators.

    Heck, what happens when the stuff fertility clinics do now becomes commoditized technology is interesting enough.

  69. It appalls me that we don’t do what other countries do and ban anonymous donor materials. It wasn’t right for my parents and their doctor to deny me a part of my history. The problem is, when donors must be known to the children they create, the donor pool plummets, and homosexuals in particular dislike that.

    -meep

    I agree that it’s morally questionable to deny children the right to know who their biological parents are. The desire to know one’s origins is a distinctly human trait that is tied to our religious instinct. It’s part of what makes us unique on this earth.

    At the very least, children over the age of, say, 14 or so, ought to be entitled to know something about their bio mothers and/or fathers.

    If it makes it that much more difficult for lesbians to procure sperm, well, maybe we ought to ask ourselves why lesbians’ emotional needs outweigh those of the children they choose to rear.

  70. Here’s some free legal advice for the sperm banksters: At the trial, have anthropology professors from America’s elite universities testify that race doesn’t exist.

    Follow-on advice: make sure none of them are Jewish. Ooof, now that’s a lot of disqualifying going on, right there. But necessary, because of the Israel connection. Don’t want the plaintiff bringing all of that ammo into the courtroom.

  71. That said–

    To me this is just an incredible debacle. I’m pretty hostile to the nonsense legal environment of our times–not just all the race\gender\homo nonsense, but McDonald’s coffee spill and all that sort of crap. Yet, this to me is big dollar stuff. It’s the biggest screwup you can have–incorrectly creating life–next to killing someone. They’ll only not get slammed if they can mau-mauing a jury with a bunch of multiculti equalist b.s.–basically yelling “racist!” (Get some blacks on the jury to cow the white jury members.)

    And this sperm bank … must be run by morons.

    Getting the race right is clearly the one thing you can not screw up. If you accidentally give the lesbians the blond, blue eyed donor 4231 instead of blond blue-eyed donor 4321 … you’re never going to hear about it. (Because–as we all understand here on iSteve Unz edition–those guys share a ton of genes; any a little “off” could be from one of their parents; and the basic kid phenotype will “look right”.) But giving them the wrong race–and it’s obvious you’re screwed up. Race is obviously the “big bucket” of selection that you’ve got to get right *every time*.

    Yet, these people (apparently) created a system where all the donor IDs are just random. 4672341 is a black athlete, while 4673241 is a blond all American boy type sporting a 1400 SAT. Ooops!

    Within two seconds of reading this story I thought, “Why is this possible?”. Why isn’t the black guy’s id BLK602341. And the white guy’s WHT593241. And obviously you could go well beyond this and have even more frontline racial ethnic descriptors—NOR537412, JEW634571, etc.—or even more descriptive info encoded right into the ID. And you do electronic code reading and printing, so that the sperm is shipped with a label the gal can check herself that was electronically copied and printed from the actual (original) vial. All making the system much harder to screw up.

    I don’t feel particularly super on-the-ball or business savy. But as I go through life I’m constantly struck by how poorly\stupidly people do with just basic stuff that ought to be obvious to folks running a particular enterprise. Stuff that I can even see peeking in from the outside. (And I’m not talking about our government\academic\journalistic “elites” there ravenously perverse abject stupidities. Just about normal folks doing normal stuff.) There’s folks who pop into iSteve and say “Hey, y’all make too big a deal of IQ … it isn’t that important.” Well … it certainly isn’t the only factor in life success. There’s plenty of high IQ people who aren’t very successful because of other deficiencies. And a *lot* of high IQ people who nonetheless manage to believe stupid stuff. But from what i see … it sure seems to matter. There sure seems to be a lot of half-assed stupid stuff going on that’s avoidable with a little more brainpower.

  72. $400 for 6 vials of semen, Barney Frank will buy up all their stock. I bet these dikes looked down on people who read “The Bell Curve” and “IQ and the Wealth of Nations” until they got stuck being around a non Asian minority for 18 years. They probably wish Kermit Gosnell was still in business.

    • Replies: @S. Verdad
    Thank you for the funniest shizz I have read in many a moon. It was almost good enough to soothe my anguish at hearing Bob Seger and The Rooster being mentioned in the same breath. Not a week ago I defended S.S.'s taste in music. Now I want to chop off my god damn thumbs. Rock n Roll Never Forgets how to rip off Gasoline Alley.

    For fans of Rod the Mod, his recent-ish disc "Rarities" sounds promising. I've only purchased "Seems Like a Long Time" and Elton's "Country Comforts" from it thus far but am considering buying the rest, despite the inclusion of too much post-1976 material.

  73. I wonder what price a certified sample of sperm from LeBron James could fetch? Imagine a world-class lesbian athlete conceived with that, and raised the kid in a nice place where there’d be minimal risk of screwing up ghetto-style? Wanna guess the probability such a kid will have the talent to earn big bucks as a pro athlete of some sort?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There was an Arliss episode on HBO with Ken Howard playing a very drunk old Mickey Mantle-type who turns to sports agent Arliss for moneymaking opportunities. One is an infomercial for "The Seed of Champions." When the Mick is asked why he's started this business, he says he always wanted a job where he didn't have to leave the house. (Me, too.)
    , @anon
    Elite athletes have kids with each other fairly often the natural way. Candace Parker, one of the top female basketball players, I believe she was the first to dunk in a WNBA game, is married to former no. 5 pick Shelden Williams. So far they only have a girl, but if they have a son, he'll probably be in the NBA (Parker's brother is also an NBA player.)

    Yao Ming's parents were both professional basketball players.

    JaVale McGee, Denver's exceedingly talented and clueless center, is the son of a WNBA star and a second-round NBA pick.

    Nomar Garciaparra (is a baseball player ever an elite athlete?) is married to Mia Hamm, as I think Steve pointed out recently.

    Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery famously had a bastard child together. Jones also had another child in wedlock with another Olympic medalist sprinter.

    On college campuses, it seems very common for athletes to date other athletes.
    , @BurplesonAFB
    Suppose it's one in ten, the other nine times you just get a mediocre kid who has trouble graduating from highschool. Would you take that bet?
  74. There is another angle on this whole thing.

    The kid in question is going to read about this case one day.

  75. Priss Factor [AKA "pizza with hot pepper"] says:

    ‘Red Scare hysteria’ was short-lived.

    But White Scare hysteria never seems to abate.

    Look under your bed!!! There may be a KKK hiding there!

  76. @Ron Mexico
    Steve, thanks for interesting articles and discussion.

    "Detroit, a great music city..."

    Eminen, ICP
    MC5, the Nuge, Seger, Bill Haley, White Stripes
    Temptations, Stevie, Four Tops, Aretha, Spinners
    Jackie Wilson, Wilson Pickett, George Clinton / PF
    JD Souther, Glenn Frey

    Kid Rock fits his own category

    Detroit: That’s a pretty good list! To compete, Los Angeles would have to include everybody who moved to town after age 18.

  77. @International Jew
    I wonder what price a certified sample of sperm from LeBron James could fetch? Imagine a world-class lesbian athlete conceived with that, and raised the kid in a nice place where there'd be minimal risk of screwing up ghetto-style? Wanna guess the probability such a kid will have the talent to earn big bucks as a pro athlete of some sort?

    There was an Arliss episode on HBO with Ken Howard playing a very drunk old Mickey Mantle-type who turns to sports agent Arliss for moneymaking opportunities. One is an infomercial for “The Seed of Champions.” When the Mick is asked why he’s started this business, he says he always wanted a job where he didn’t have to leave the house. (Me, too.)

  78. @Lurker

    Now that I think about it, Bob Seger and Rod Stewart seem pretty similar
     
    But I ask you, does Bob have a large model railway and a front cover of Model Railroader to his credit?

    http://www.traintalk.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/model-railroader-rod-stewart.jpg

    http://www.therichest.com/expensive-lifestyle/money/rod-stewart-model-train-collection/

    Neil Young is also a huge model railroader. He has a severely disabled son and that’s their thing they do together.

  79. ROFLOL

    There is a God and He definitely has a great sense of humor

  80. @peterike
    I know this is an easy target for mockery, but think of it at the level of the mother: how ghastly. I, for one, would have a very difficult time loving a baby of another race, and were I saddled with a mixed-race baby it would have been a very rough haul. I know one couple, white dude with a Hispanic wife. She's very sweet, very pretty in her very Hispanic way, and all three of their kids look EXACTLY like the mother. Not a lick of the white dad in those kids. How does he look and them and not think, "What the F?"

    Topic 2: Seger's best song for me is "Against the Wind." But then it's very elegiac, and I'm a stone cold sucker for elegiac.

    Topic 3: @ Mr Blank. (The last really creative, innovative pop song I can recall was Outkast’s “Hey Ya!”, which came out more than a decade ago.)

    You want innovative pop? Try Sufjan Stevens (esp the "Michigan" and "Illinoise" albums") and/or Vampire Weekend (esp. "Modern Vampires of the City," an album at the level of "Sgt. Pepper" for pure innovation and brilliant, varied pop.)

    If you want not-very-innovative but just-plain-old-brilliant-songwriting then you want The Mountain Goats.

    Surfjan Stevens is probably the most sounding pop music ever. Vampire Weekend is lame too, especially with the Afro-influenced sound.

    • Replies: @peterike
    Vampire Weekend is lame too, especially with the Afro-influenced sound.\

    Of which there is almost none on their most recent, and best, album. But hey, whatevs!
  81. @noyb
    A few years ago, I attended a number of informational meetings for people considering using egg or sperm donors. The format was always the same. Some doctors and lawyers would talk about the medical and legal issues. Then there would be a panel of 3 to 5 couples or single parents who had used donors. They would talk about their experience and answer questions from the audience. One of the questions was always how they had chosen their donor. All but one (more about this odd couple later) described spending days or weeks poring over catalogs of donors. As Chase says, the catalogs contained detailed family histories and information about health, education and athletic achievements for each donor, a picture of the donor and, always for egg donors and usually for sperm donors, an essay by the donor about herself or himself.

    Of the parents who used egg donors, all but one (the odd couple) said that they would not consider any donor who did not show proven exceptional intelligence. They focused on IQ's, SAT scores, GPA's (all must be very high), schools attended (only the most selective colleges) and academic majors (a preference for hard majors where a high GPA really means something, rather than soft majors where everybody receives high grades). Parents who used sperm donors were less likely to say intelligence was their top consideration. Many were more concerned about the subjective factors revealed in the personal essays. Artistic talent and athletic ability were the most sought after, but there were also a lot of parents who said that they had chosen a sperm donor whose essay seemed to indicate that he was a happy person. Not surprisingly, lesbians often focused on idiosyncratic factors. Many excluded men who sounded dominant or athletic. I remember one lesbian couple in particular who said that they had excluded all men who reported having body hair. A few lesbians, though, said that they had specifically selected dominant, athletic donors.

    I assume the difference between egg and sperm donees reflected the fact that using an egg donor is a very expensive process that costs $80,000 to $100,000 and sometimes much more. The parents who used egg donors were therefore all rich professionals who thought intelligence was the most important thing in the world. Using a sperm donor is a much cheaper process, costing only a few hundred dollars (and costing nothing for those who use the turkey baster method with a male friend as donor), so parents using sperm donors had a much broader range of incomes and were much more likely not to worship intelligence above all else. You also can't ignore the fact that professionally accomplished fathers tend to be very competitive and usually seem to take the lead role in choosing egg donors, while mothers tend to be much less competitive and take the lead in choosing sperm donors.

    One thing that both groups cared a lot about was appearance. They wanted good-looking donors. Most also wanted a donor who looked like the infertile parent, so that the child would look like the genetic offspring of both members of the couple. This was even true of gay and lesbian couples -- one member of the couple would provide the sperm or womb and the donor would look like the other parent -- despite the fact that, of course, everybody would know that it was physically impossible for the child to be genetically related to both parents.

    The odd couple took a different approach. They pointed out that regression to the mean created a large chance that even the smartest egg donor would not produce an exceptionally smart child. They said they suspected that parents who selected for intelligence (or beauty or athletic ability, etc.) and whose child turned out to be average or less would feel as if they had not gotten their money's worth. (This seems pretty likely to me, considering who the parents were.) The odd couple hadn't wanted to take the chance of feeling that way about their own child. Reasoning that all of the donors had been screened for good health, they had just opened the catalog and chosen the donor who appeared on the first page they saw. I had to respect them for that, although I wouldn't have the strength of character to do the same myself.

    As an aside, the reason why using an egg donor is so expensive is that, in most states where the use of surrogate mothers is legal, the law allows her to change her mind and keep the child if it is genetically hers but not if it isn't. As a result, the almost universal practice is to use both an egg donor and a surrogate (the "carrier") who is not genetically related to the donor. Both the donor and the carrier receive large fees (donation involves a month of taking a bunch of different hormones and drugs several times a day on a rigid schedule). Then, expensive medical professionals fertilize the egg and implant it in the surrogate. There is a very high failure rate, so the process often must be repeated several times, sometimes involving more than one donor or surrogate, all at additional high cost. Also, implantation of multiple fertilized eggs results in a very high incidence of twins and triplets, which involves the expense of raising more than one child for those parents (they looked like a majority to me) who were unwilling to abort (or "reduce," as the euphemism goes) the extras.

    A few times, prospective parents in the audience announced that they were going to avoid this expense and use just one woman, a surrogate who would both conceive and carry the child. The lawyers always warned them not to do that. One lawyer said, "If you go ahead with this idea, the surrogate can keep the child and in my experience they will do that 100% of the time."

    Thanks.

  82. @Steve from Detroit
    O/T, but the universe simulation is cooperating again. Today is National Black Dog Day:

    According to the official National Black Dog Day website, the day was started because "too often, black dogs are overlooked because of many stigmas such as; the color black is evil (the same stigma that cats have), black dogs do not show up as well in photographs as muti-colored or light colored dogs and black dogs look scary and intimidating because you cannot see their facial expressions as easily ... This special day is devoted to creating public awareness about these beautiful, shiny fur babies that offer just as much unconditional love as any other dog and deserve just as much love back. ... Please adopt a black dog and show the world how much light they have inside and out"

    As for Seger, a friend has children who attend the same school as Seger's children. My friend claims Seger is as down to earth as you could imagine. I respect the guy's career and work, and would consider myself a moderate fan. Some of his older lyrics are simply great. His song "Like a Rock" is quite good, but Chevrolet beat it to death selling pickups. The one criticism is that he's had a number of "farewell tours", which runs counter to what seems to be a very sincere guy. Kid Rock cites Seger as his biggest influence.

    The retired actress next door had a black dog before she suddenly had two children in early 40s. He not only had the usual black dog problems involving it’s hard for humans to relate to a creature whose eyes don’t stand out from his fur, but the dog had all sorts of behavioral problems that she employed an canine psychiatrist to provide expensive therapy for. Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    Can't understand this anti-Black Dog stuff. Black Labs are lovely dogs.

    Of course Churchill didn't like his Black Dog, and I'm pretty sure Nick Drake didn't. Not sure about Led Zep.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/24/mental-health-black-dog-sculpture-campaign

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60vO4PttPdA

    Am I the only one who thinks "Hollywood Nights" is a great Seger song ? A kind of mirror-image/anti-particle "Don't Stop Believing".
    , @Wilkey
    "Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate."

    Is this a reference to a "Friends" episode?
  83. @BurplesonAFB
    Looking back, it seems there was a brief period from the mid 50s to sometime in the 70s when popular music became simple enough to make (didn't need an 8 piece brass band and 3 harmony singers), but recording and sound system equipment wasn't good enough that people would just listen to a record played at a club. They wanted it live.

    My perception (this is not from memory, I was born in the 80s) is that there are maybe 20% as many live bands playing on any given American Friday night as there would have been 50 years ago. If the total number of kids playing little league declined to 1/5th, we would have worse MLB players.

    Probably the big band swing era was peak employment for musicians. When my late father-in-law was 16 in the summer of 1945 he toured the country as the tuba player for a swing band. He said the whole high school marching band tradition was to give older horn players, typically veterans coming back from the War, steady jobs as teachers.

  84. Ron Mexico:

    and that list could be lengthened easily.

    I think Alice Cooper should be added. The band didn’t get it together til they moved to Detroit, and their sound is very characteristic of the town. Parliament/Funkadelic was the same way.

    How could you leave out Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels?

    Flint’s Grand Funk belongs (not a fan, though).

    Am I the only person who thinks the MC5’s Back in the USA album is a classic? It virtually started heartland rock.

    The Stooges.

    Suzi Quatro’s from Detroit.

    Detroit kept a tough, populist edge to their music at a time when it was getting in short supply. It was the last gasp of when the heartland still formed a lot of America’s tastes. The mix of race, politics, culture etc is pretty interesting in a way that it just wasn’t in NYC, SF, or LA at the time.

    I mention Memphis because it had a number of similarities to Detroit: race, class, funky, populist edge, influence beyond record sales, a more homegrown style, a kind of down-home/heartland sensibility, greater focus on authenticity, more masculinity, styles that scenes with wealthier demographics still draw from, strong record label affiliations.

  85. @anon
    I, um, did this in college for a couple semesters. At least through the place I did it at, which appeared legitimate, there was no quality control. I was given a phone survey about various things, including academics, family medical history, my own medical history, but there was nothing stopping me from lying my ass off. They did do a physical and blood tests for venereal diseases, but no genetic testing, and certainly no confirmation of SAT score. Hell, they didn't even ask for a student ID from the campus next door that I said I was going to.

    “I, um, did this in college for a couple semesters. At least through the place I did it at, which appeared legitimate, there was no quality control. I was given a phone survey about various things, including academics, family medical history, my own medical history, but there was nothing stopping me from lying my ass off. They did do a physical and blood tests for venereal diseases, but no genetic testing, and certainly no confirmation of SAT score. Hell, they didn’t even ask for a student ID from the campus next door that I said I was going to.”

    This was identical to my experience as well, when I briefly fulfilled this role at a facility adjacent to my university campus. I think they asked to see my student ID, but otherwise I could have lied about any other detail.

  86. @anon
    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent. He just appears to be a bully with pretensions at intellectualism--pretensions that would be amusing if not for how seriously he is taken. I just looked at his Twitter, and he calls his tweets "mental musings." Most of these affirmative action geniuses are eventually exposed for what they are. What is the under/over for how long this takes to happen to Tyson?

    Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.

    I’ll bet good money that he’s a lot smarter than you are.

    Jesus…

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    "I’ll bet good money that he’s a lot smarter than you are. Jesus…"

    Yeah, and how does that make him worth our while? I'm sure Obama and Bush are a lot smarter than me, too. In the roles I want them to fill, however, Tyson, Obama, and Bush are neither smart enough, nor original enough, nor interesting enough.

  87. @JustAnotherGuyWithA1911
    Bob Segar is great. Although time has taken it toll on his body, he's still rocking at 69 and his voice continues to be raspy, powerful, and solid.

    For an example of his recent stuff, listen to his rocking cover of Wilco's "California Stars"; the lyrics are by Woody Guthrie (the song is part of the Mermaid Ave. project Wilco did with Billy Bragg).

    http://youtu.be/pvvFOqz90TY

    Also, based on the video, Segar is a reasonably competent rhythm guitarist.

    Another way Bob Seger is the American Rod Stewart: the battle of the initials: RS v RS and BS v. BS. Rod Stewart and the Rolling Stones had a long relationship and kind of a competition, with Ronnie Wood going from one to the other. Just as the Stones tended to imitate the Beatles, Stewart was often six months behind the Stones: e.g., “Miss You” and “Do Ya Think I’m Sexy” in the disco genre.

    Similarly, it was kind of inevitable that the two B.S.s — Bob Seger and Bruce Springsteen — would get compared to, although that was more arbitrary. Springsteen from New Jersey kind of infringed on Seger’s Detroit turf with his live medley of Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels songs he released around 1978, but in general they weren’t, as far as I know, in the same circles like the Rolling Stones and Rod Stewart were.

  88. @Bill M
    Surfjan Stevens is probably the most sounding pop music ever. Vampire Weekend is lame too, especially with the Afro-influenced sound.

    Vampire Weekend is lame too, especially with the Afro-influenced sound.\

    Of which there is almost none on their most recent, and best, album. But hey, whatevs!

    • Replies: @Bill M
    Their most recent album is still lame and dorky as hell. They're almost as boring as Grizzly Bear. I don't think anyone but dorks and try-hard olds like them.
  89. @anon
    As I said, based on my experience, the QC controls for men are very low, but why is that? Donating eggs is in every way a much more onerous process than donating sperm so one would think that the standards would need to be lowered to meet demand. Or is the demand for sperm much higher than the demand for eggs?

    I have always figured it’s the amount of money paid by people looking for eggs. If you’re shelling out $25k you are probably more particular than looking for easy-to-come-by sperm.

  90. @Deckin
    I don't know; 'Turn the Page' was always the consensus favorite for best Seger song back in the mid 70s in my crowd.

    Great tune, but lyrics about how damned hard it is to be a rock star annoy me. That is the life you chose. Plus, all the hot babes.

    Having said that, I hear Seger genuinely hated the life, and he quit for many years because he couldn’t stand being sepaarated from his family. If so, then quitting proved that he wasn’t a phony.

    I saw him in ’78. He put on a fantastic show. He was genuinely underrated, especailly compared to the worship his contemporary from New Jersey has gotten.

  91. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew
    I wonder what price a certified sample of sperm from LeBron James could fetch? Imagine a world-class lesbian athlete conceived with that, and raised the kid in a nice place where there'd be minimal risk of screwing up ghetto-style? Wanna guess the probability such a kid will have the talent to earn big bucks as a pro athlete of some sort?

    Elite athletes have kids with each other fairly often the natural way. Candace Parker, one of the top female basketball players, I believe she was the first to dunk in a WNBA game, is married to former no. 5 pick Shelden Williams. So far they only have a girl, but if they have a son, he’ll probably be in the NBA (Parker’s brother is also an NBA player.)

    Yao Ming’s parents were both professional basketball players.

    JaVale McGee, Denver’s exceedingly talented and clueless center, is the son of a WNBA star and a second-round NBA pick.

    Nomar Garciaparra (is a baseball player ever an elite athlete?) is married to Mia Hamm, as I think Steve pointed out recently.

    Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery famously had a bastard child together. Jones also had another child in wedlock with another Olympic medalist sprinter.

    On college campuses, it seems very common for athletes to date other athletes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Track athletes marry all the time, tennis players sometimes, golfers almost never.
  92. @Ron Mexico
    Steve, thanks for interesting articles and discussion.

    "Detroit, a great music city..."

    Eminen, ICP
    MC5, the Nuge, Seger, Bill Haley, White Stripes
    Temptations, Stevie, Four Tops, Aretha, Spinners
    Jackie Wilson, Wilson Pickett, George Clinton / PF
    JD Souther, Glenn Frey

    Kid Rock fits his own category

    And Mich Ryder.

    And not to be a scold, but Aretha isn’t from Detroit.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Aretha was born in Memphis and raised in Detroit, where her father was a big time preacher. Mary Wilson of the Supremes recalled in her memoir seeing as a child the older Aretha ice skating and being told she was the best singer in Detroit.
  93. @anon
    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent. He just appears to be a bully with pretensions at intellectualism--pretensions that would be amusing if not for how seriously he is taken. I just looked at his Twitter, and he calls his tweets "mental musings." Most of these affirmative action geniuses are eventually exposed for what they are. What is the under/over for how long this takes to happen to Tyson?

    Are they really exposed, though? I remember when Leon Wieseltier did his takedown of Cornel West. Should have been devastating, but it didn’t seem to slow his career much.

  94. @Steve Sailer
    And I really like Bob Seger. The link goes to him performing "Ramblin Gamblin Man" (a worthy Creedence-style should-have-been-a-hit) on a groovy Sixties TV show. But his career didn't go anywhere and everybody outside of Detroit forgot about him. In Detroit, a great music city, he was a god, though. Finally, a live in Detroit album got national attention and he was a superstar in the later 1970s. I gather there's some sort of copyrights problem around his songs today, although I don't understand it exactly. And his reputation is weighted down by everybody hearing "Old Time Rock and Roll" at 100 weddings. But you probably haven't heard its predecessor "Rock and Roll Never Forgets" enough.

    And his reputation is weighted down by everybody hearing “Old Time Rock and Roll” at 100 weddings. But you probably haven’t heard its predecessor “Rock and Roll Never Forgets” enough.

    “Turn the Page” is my favorite! Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band were pretty popular in the late ’70s/early ’80s at my large suburban Boston high school.

  95. Prior to my vasectomy, I banked three loads at a Ft. Lauderdale sperm bank on the mid ’90s. It cost something like $300 per year for the cyrogenic storage. After a few job transfers and relocations, the bank lost track of my address and stopped billing me; my last annual payment was around ’00. I wonder what’s happened to my banked sperm?

  96. @Steve Sailer
    The retired actress next door had a black dog before she suddenly had two children in early 40s. He not only had the usual black dog problems involving it's hard for humans to relate to a creature whose eyes don't stand out from his fur, but the dog had all sorts of behavioral problems that she employed an canine psychiatrist to provide expensive therapy for. Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate.

    Can’t understand this anti-Black Dog stuff. Black Labs are lovely dogs.

    Of course Churchill didn’t like his Black Dog, and I’m pretty sure Nick Drake didn’t. Not sure about Led Zep.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/24/mental-health-black-dog-sculpture-campaign

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60vO4PttPdA

    Am I the only one who thinks “Hollywood Nights” is a great Seger song ? A kind of mirror-image/anti-particle “Don’t Stop Believing”.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    “Hollywood Nights”

    Oh, yeah. It was a big hit during the middle of his peak popularity so it's not fun to bring up like more obscure stuff, but it shows his storytelling skills as a lyricist. It used to be we had professional lyricists like Johnny Mercer who were experts, but then we expected performers to write their own lyrics in the name of authenticity, so even basic coherence became rare. Rod Stewart and Seger stand out during the Seventies for their ability to tell stories and include realistic, unexpected details. They could have been professional country songwriters punching a clock in a Nashville songwriting factory, which is rare among rock stars.

    Here are the lyrics to Stewart's "You Wear It Well:"

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rodstewart/youwearitwell.html

    , @e
    "Hollywood Nights" --great car song, turn up full blast, Pacific Coast Highway

    For me, the song still captures the aura of LA

    It reminds me of Scott Fitgerald's line in "The Great Gatsby" (didn't refer to LA, of course): "...where people breathe dreams like air."
  97. No one thinks this “lesbian” was knocked up by a black guy and is now trying to cover it up?

  98. @Steve Sailer
    Now that I think about it, Bob Seger and Rod Stewart seem pretty similar. Born the same year, both raspy singers, both way above average lyricists for the rock era. Stewart's career got started faster as the vocalist for big league guitarists like Jeff Beck and Ronnie Wood in Faces and playing on his spectacular solo album Every Picture Tells a Story ("Maggie May" and much else).

    Seger, I seem to recall, had guitar problems. For awhile, he wanted to be his own lead guitarist but eventually decided he just wasn't good enough. He didn't become a national star until he was 31 with "Night Moves" in late 1976. Today it doesn't seem strange for somebody to take that long to become a famous rock star, but back then it was pretty unusual for there to a brand new rock star who was a full-fledged grown-up. "Night Moves" was kind of like the rock era version of Sinatra's "When I Was 17."

    Seger maintained his dignity in the 1970s better than Stewart, although I'd probably rank Stewart's early peak highest of the two.

    I’d probably rank Stewart’s early peak highest of the two.

    Stewart’s ’71 hit “I’m Losing You” is a great rock & roll song!

  99. @I, Libertine
    And Mich Ryder.

    And not to be a scold, but Aretha isn't from Detroit.

    Aretha was born in Memphis and raised in Detroit, where her father was a big time preacher. Mary Wilson of the Supremes recalled in her memoir seeing as a child the older Aretha ice skating and being told she was the best singer in Detroit.

  100. @anon
    Elite athletes have kids with each other fairly often the natural way. Candace Parker, one of the top female basketball players, I believe she was the first to dunk in a WNBA game, is married to former no. 5 pick Shelden Williams. So far they only have a girl, but if they have a son, he'll probably be in the NBA (Parker's brother is also an NBA player.)

    Yao Ming's parents were both professional basketball players.

    JaVale McGee, Denver's exceedingly talented and clueless center, is the son of a WNBA star and a second-round NBA pick.

    Nomar Garciaparra (is a baseball player ever an elite athlete?) is married to Mia Hamm, as I think Steve pointed out recently.

    Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery famously had a bastard child together. Jones also had another child in wedlock with another Olympic medalist sprinter.

    On college campuses, it seems very common for athletes to date other athletes.

    Track athletes marry all the time, tennis players sometimes, golfers almost never.

  101. @Anonymous Nephew
    Can't understand this anti-Black Dog stuff. Black Labs are lovely dogs.

    Of course Churchill didn't like his Black Dog, and I'm pretty sure Nick Drake didn't. Not sure about Led Zep.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/24/mental-health-black-dog-sculpture-campaign

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60vO4PttPdA

    Am I the only one who thinks "Hollywood Nights" is a great Seger song ? A kind of mirror-image/anti-particle "Don't Stop Believing".

    “Hollywood Nights”

    Oh, yeah. It was a big hit during the middle of his peak popularity so it’s not fun to bring up like more obscure stuff, but it shows his storytelling skills as a lyricist. It used to be we had professional lyricists like Johnny Mercer who were experts, but then we expected performers to write their own lyrics in the name of authenticity, so even basic coherence became rare. Rod Stewart and Seger stand out during the Seventies for their ability to tell stories and include realistic, unexpected details. They could have been professional country songwriters punching a clock in a Nashville songwriting factory, which is rare among rock stars.

    Here are the lyrics to Stewart’s “You Wear It Well:”

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rodstewart/youwearitwell.html

  102. “There’s a market for black male sperm donors?”

    Outside of Black women, I doubt there is a lot of demand for Black male sperm from Nonblack women trying to get pregnant through artificial insemination. Unless you find an exception like Kim Kardashian for example who is obsessed with all things Black inside her.

  103. @Chase
    I can't say precisely what the QC standards are for males, but my wife donated eggs prior to our relationship and the standards there are enormous. Full IQ test, psych eval, educational history audit, total health screening down to risk levels for various diseases, they really got at everything.

    I imagine standards are lower for men for obvious reasons.

    Egg donation is a costly medical procedure, so the additional fees for background checks probably don’t add much, percentage-wise, to the price. If you can afford to pay $50,000 for eggs, you can afford to pay an extra grand or two for some testing.

  104. @BigGaySteve
    $400 for 6 vials of semen, Barney Frank will buy up all their stock. I bet these dikes looked down on people who read "The Bell Curve" and "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" until they got stuck being around a non Asian minority for 18 years. They probably wish Kermit Gosnell was still in business.

    Thank you for the funniest shizz I have read in many a moon. It was almost good enough to soothe my anguish at hearing Bob Seger and The Rooster being mentioned in the same breath. Not a week ago I defended S.S.’s taste in music. Now I want to chop off my god damn thumbs. Rock n Roll Never Forgets how to rip off Gasoline Alley.

    For fans of Rod the Mod, his recent-ish disc “Rarities” sounds promising. I’ve only purchased “Seems Like a Long Time” and Elton’s “Country Comforts” from it thus far but am considering buying the rest, despite the inclusion of too much post-1976 material.

  105. @Steve Sailer
    The retired actress next door had a black dog before she suddenly had two children in early 40s. He not only had the usual black dog problems involving it's hard for humans to relate to a creature whose eyes don't stand out from his fur, but the dog had all sorts of behavioral problems that she employed an canine psychiatrist to provide expensive therapy for. Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate.

    “Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate.”

    Is this a reference to a “Friends” episode?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Is this a reference to a “Friends” episode?"

    I don't live in _that_ expensive of a neighborhood.

    I live in a Robert Downey Jr.-just-out-of-prison-and-broke neighborhood.

  106. I apologize to all for no mention of Mitch Ryder, just trying to make a quick list off the top of my head. A lot of greatness came from The D in the 60s. Steve, I too enjoy Seger’s Hollywood Nights, but it seemed to follow the same storyline as the Eagles more successful and earlier Life in the Fast Lane.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right, "Life in the Fast Lane" by The Eagles about a year or two before "Hollywood Nights" by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect "Take It Easy" from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn't, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I'd say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.
  107. @JayMan

    Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.
     
    I'll bet good money that he's a lot smarter than you are.

    Jesus...

    “I’ll bet good money that he’s a lot smarter than you are. Jesus…”

    Yeah, and how does that make him worth our while? I’m sure Obama and Bush are a lot smarter than me, too. In the roles I want them to fill, however, Tyson, Obama, and Bush are neither smart enough, nor original enough, nor interesting enough.

  108. @Wilkey
    "Then she had two beautiful kids and the dog soon went to a farm upstate."

    Is this a reference to a "Friends" episode?

    “Is this a reference to a “Friends” episode?”

    I don’t live in _that_ expensive of a neighborhood.

    I live in a Robert Downey Jr.-just-out-of-prison-and-broke neighborhood.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    I was actually referring to this.
  109. @josh
    Are you really comfortable with the fact that you might have a son or daughter that you will never meet?

    “Are you really comfortable with the fact that you might have a son or daughter that you will never meet?”

    Or that they could meet EACH OTHER and have a baby the old fashioned way, (but one with two heads).

  110. The line that always bugged me was:

    Most times you can’t hear ’em talk
    Other times you can
    and it’s the same old cliches
    is that a woman or a man
    and you always seem out numbered
    you don’t dare make a stand . . .

    I’ve worn a tartan kilt in Central Asia and South Texas, and I did damn well dare to take a stand.

    Boss, I like the way your mind works.

  111. @Steve Sailer
    "Is this a reference to a “Friends” episode?"

    I don't live in _that_ expensive of a neighborhood.

    I live in a Robert Downey Jr.-just-out-of-prison-and-broke neighborhood.

    I was actually referring to this.

  112. Now that we’re (kinda) back on the topic of Transhumanism, I see a conflict between your commenters’ outrage over Zeke Emmanuel’s desire to allow his material life to expire naturally after a pretty long (by historical standards) existence and their scoffing at Transhumanism (broadly define by me as attempting to extend human health, life and when all else fails, consciousness, indefinitely.). If the commenters don’t have their own upper limit number they’ve unconsciously embraced the goal of material eternal life offered by transhumanism. Are Transhumanist guilty of loving life too much?

    I’m surprised by the lack of any Transhumanism supporters here – even The American Conservative has them when the topic is broached. Sorry, I can’t fill that role, I’m a borderline nihilist.

  113. @Ron Mexico
    Steve, thanks for interesting articles and discussion.

    "Detroit, a great music city..."

    Eminen, ICP
    MC5, the Nuge, Seger, Bill Haley, White Stripes
    Temptations, Stevie, Four Tops, Aretha, Spinners
    Jackie Wilson, Wilson Pickett, George Clinton / PF
    JD Souther, Glenn Frey

    Kid Rock fits his own category

    You left out Smokey Robinson, Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, Marshall Crenshaw and the Romantics.

    Oh, and long before them, the great Richard Whiting, Margaret’s dad, who was from Peoria but started his career in Detroit.

  114. @Ron Mexico
    Steve, thanks for interesting articles and discussion.

    "Detroit, a great music city..."

    Eminen, ICP
    MC5, the Nuge, Seger, Bill Haley, White Stripes
    Temptations, Stevie, Four Tops, Aretha, Spinners
    Jackie Wilson, Wilson Pickett, George Clinton / PF
    JD Souther, Glenn Frey

    Kid Rock fits his own category

    You left out Smokey Robinson, Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, Marshall Crenshaw and the Romantics.

    Oh, and long before them, the great Richard Whiting, Margaret’s dad, who was from Peoria but started his career in what was yet to become the Motor City.

  115. Priss Factor [AKA "pizza with hot pepper"] says:

  116. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    My gut says she clearly does not want anything to do with a black child, but can’t say that for fear she will look “racist”, so she now has to go through the motions…

    Now the vast majority of Lesbians are cultural Marxists, liberal-leftists types who dislike men (and by that I mean WHITE men). I fell a little schadenfreude seeing one of them now snared in their own nets.

  117. @International Jew
    I wonder what price a certified sample of sperm from LeBron James could fetch? Imagine a world-class lesbian athlete conceived with that, and raised the kid in a nice place where there'd be minimal risk of screwing up ghetto-style? Wanna guess the probability such a kid will have the talent to earn big bucks as a pro athlete of some sort?

    Suppose it’s one in ten, the other nine times you just get a mediocre kid who has trouble graduating from highschool. Would you take that bet?

  118. Etheridge always struck me as just sort of a lesbian Bob Seger,

    My radio station in N. Cal ran an ad for her new release (CD? if those still exist) during The Glenn Beck Show / King Ebola Hour. Most “pioneer” celesbians palatable for the mainstream are kind of mediocre in their respective fields, I’m thinking Ellen (deGeneres or Page) or Robin Roberts or Sally Ride for example. (Ani DiFranco comes to mind but I think is technically bi)

  119. @Ron Mexico
    I apologize to all for no mention of Mitch Ryder, just trying to make a quick list off the top of my head. A lot of greatness came from The D in the 60s. Steve, I too enjoy Seger's Hollywood Nights, but it seemed to follow the same storyline as the Eagles more successful and earlier Life in the Fast Lane.

    Right, “Life in the Fast Lane” by The Eagles about a year or two before “Hollywood Nights” by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect “Take It Easy” from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn’t, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I’d say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Steve, the "professionalism" of the Eagles is appreciated by their fans, but certainly a criticism of detractors, probably jealous or envious detractors. One common criticism is / was that their concerts sound like their albums, but I suppose adding Joe Walsh minimized some of that criticism. Think of all the musical ties that the Eagles connect with: Ronstadt, Poco, Flying Burrito Bros, the Byrds, Neil Young, Jackson Browne, James Gang, CSN, et al. L.A. had an incredible amount of music talent walking around in the late 60s/early 70s.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song.
     
    Professional, maybe, in the sense of phoning it in. But how could anyone write

    I used to hurry a lot, I used to worry a lot…
     
    and expect people to expect more than the lame money/honey which follows? That song, from an album Stereo Review called the work of "very rich, very bored Angelenos", vies with "Dark Star" and "Wishing You Were Here" for the worst single by a major band in the '70s.

    For a fresh take on stale rhymes, see real pros like Anthony Newley and Leslie Bricusse:

    And maybe tomorrow,
    I'll find what I'm after,
    I'll throw off my sorrow,
    Beg, steal or borrow
    my share of laughter
     

    Who can take tomorrow,
    dip it in a dream,
    separate the sorrow
    and collect up all the cream?
    The Candy Man…
     
    Those are set to real tunes, too, not sclerotic riffs.

    The Jacksons, and Michiganders Stevie Wonder and Madonna, never equaled their first hit records, which were written by pros.

    On the other hand, Seger's worst record by far was the one he didn't write: "Old Time Rock and Roll", by two wannabe movie hacks. (I agree with the song, just don't think it lives up to its sentiments.)
    , @HA
    Take it Easy is mostly Jackson Browne, with 2nd verse and the "we oughta take it easy" outro by Frey, though I'm not sure what the album credits say.

    Jim O: "Great tune, but lyrics about how damned hard it is to be a rock star annoy me."

    FWIW, Warren Zevon wrote "Poor Pitiful Me", which was hamfistedly reworked by Linda Ronstadt so as to have a female POV, as a dig at Jackson Browne, who despite possessing what even straight men could see was perhaps the prettiest face in California for a number of decades, as well as being a rock star, tended to write songs of romantic despair. So, I believe Browne's verses are the one where he's worrying about seven women at once, poor guy. Frey's is the one where he's satisfied with one conquest at a time, in this case, at some corner of Winslow, AZ. According to the Wiki page, it was Browne who suggested the song to Rondstadt.

    , @Ezra
    The professionalism of the Eagles as musicians can't be questioned, but they were always fairly sloppy as songwriters. There's always something messed up about an Eagles song: someplace where the meter of the lyrics doesn't connect, so they have to ululate some interior vowel to make it add up; irritating rhymes like real--ize/eyes; clunky chord sequences in the verse. Don't get me wrong. I love many Eagles songs, but they were definitely willing to wrap up a job when it was 90% done.

    Which was probably efficient as a way of making money from their work. That was the real knock on the Eagles, that they were businessmen first, professionals second, and artists last.

    , @Pat Boyle
    I remember a New Yorker cartoon of decades ago. A woman is testifying to a cop at the Missing Person's Bureau and says - "He was inordinately fond of the music of Sweelinck".

    I've heard some Sweelinck. He's not half as obscure as 'Bob Seger'. I like most readers assumed you were referring to 'Pete Seeger'.

    But back on topic - I got a little Cavalier King Charles Spaniel from a woman who couldn't keep him anymore. I was unlikely to have bought one myself. The puppies cost $1,500. My cat was free at the pound. So I'm familiar with the notion that some kittens and puppies are worth more than others. Human babies too.

    No honest person can deny that a white baby is worth more than a black one. Surrogate mothers get at least $100,000 for a white baby. I can't find a figure for black babies. There doesn't seem to be much of a market. Let's say $50,000. If that's so, then those two lesbians who got a black kid should be able to sue.
  120. Detroit: don’t forget Jesus Sixto Rodriguez. He always gets overlooked.

    Btw: I meant ‘Still the Same’ in above post.

  121. @Steve Sailer
    Right, "Life in the Fast Lane" by The Eagles about a year or two before "Hollywood Nights" by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect "Take It Easy" from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn't, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I'd say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.

    Steve, the “professionalism” of the Eagles is appreciated by their fans, but certainly a criticism of detractors, probably jealous or envious detractors. One common criticism is / was that their concerts sound like their albums, but I suppose adding Joe Walsh minimized some of that criticism. Think of all the musical ties that the Eagles connect with: Ronstadt, Poco, Flying Burrito Bros, the Byrds, Neil Young, Jackson Browne, James Gang, CSN, et al. L.A. had an incredible amount of music talent walking around in the late 60s/early 70s.

  122. Jim O says

    Great tune, but lyrics about how damned hard it is to be a rock star annoy me. That is the life you chose. Plus, all the hot babes. ”

    Yes, I agree. And any rock-and-roll song with the words “rock-and-roll” in it’s lyrics is invariably crappy (with the exception of “On the Cover of the Rolling Stone”).

  123. @anon
    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent. He just appears to be a bully with pretensions at intellectualism--pretensions that would be amusing if not for how seriously he is taken. I just looked at his Twitter, and he calls his tweets "mental musings." Most of these affirmative action geniuses are eventually exposed for what they are. What is the under/over for how long this takes to happen to Tyson?

    OT: This site carefully tracked the rise and fall of Malcolm Gladwell. But Gladwell, if nothing else, was interesting. Now the new favored black genius is Neil Tyson, who is neither original, nor interesting, nor intelligent.

    Dude, come on. Tyson is brilliant.

  124. @Steve Sailer
    Right, "Life in the Fast Lane" by The Eagles about a year or two before "Hollywood Nights" by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect "Take It Easy" from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn't, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I'd say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song.

    Professional, maybe, in the sense of phoning it in. But how could anyone write

    I used to hurry a lot, I used to worry a lot…

    and expect people to expect more than the lame money/honey which follows? That song, from an album Stereo Review called the work of “very rich, very bored Angelenos”, vies with “Dark Star” and “Wishing You Were Here” for the worst single by a major band in the ’70s.

    For a fresh take on stale rhymes, see real pros like Anthony Newley and Leslie Bricusse:

    And maybe tomorrow,
    I’ll find what I’m after,
    I’ll throw off my sorrow,
    Beg, steal or borrow
    my share of laughter

    Who can take tomorrow,
    dip it in a dream,
    separate the sorrow
    and collect up all the cream?
    The Candy Man…

    Those are set to real tunes, too, not sclerotic riffs.

    The Jacksons, and Michiganders Stevie Wonder and Madonna, never equaled their first hit records, which were written by pros.

    On the other hand, Seger’s worst record by far was the one he didn’t write: “Old Time Rock and Roll”, by two wannabe movie hacks. (I agree with the song, just don’t think it lives up to its sentiments.)

  125. Is this the most bifurcated iSteve thread ever? I mean, really, half sperm, half Seger?

  126. Henceforth known as the “Salty Bullet” thread.

  127. @peterike
    Vampire Weekend is lame too, especially with the Afro-influenced sound.\

    Of which there is almost none on their most recent, and best, album. But hey, whatevs!

    Their most recent album is still lame and dorky as hell. They’re almost as boring as Grizzly Bear. I don’t think anyone but dorks and try-hard olds like them.

  128. @Steve Sailer
    Right, "Life in the Fast Lane" by The Eagles about a year or two before "Hollywood Nights" by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect "Take It Easy" from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn't, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I'd say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.

    Take it Easy is mostly Jackson Browne, with 2nd verse and the “we oughta take it easy” outro by Frey, though I’m not sure what the album credits say.

    Jim O: “Great tune, but lyrics about how damned hard it is to be a rock star annoy me.”

    FWIW, Warren Zevon wrote “Poor Pitiful Me”, which was hamfistedly reworked by Linda Ronstadt so as to have a female POV, as a dig at Jackson Browne, who despite possessing what even straight men could see was perhaps the prettiest face in California for a number of decades, as well as being a rock star, tended to write songs of romantic despair. So, I believe Browne’s verses are the one where he’s worrying about seven women at once, poor guy. Frey’s is the one where he’s satisfied with one conquest at a time, in this case, at some corner of Winslow, AZ. According to the Wiki page, it was Browne who suggested the song to Rondstadt.

  129. @Steve Sailer
    Right, "Life in the Fast Lane" by The Eagles about a year or two before "Hollywood Nights" by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect "Take It Easy" from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn't, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I'd say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.

    The professionalism of the Eagles as musicians can’t be questioned, but they were always fairly sloppy as songwriters. There’s always something messed up about an Eagles song: someplace where the meter of the lyrics doesn’t connect, so they have to ululate some interior vowel to make it add up; irritating rhymes like real–ize/eyes; clunky chord sequences in the verse. Don’t get me wrong. I love many Eagles songs, but they were definitely willing to wrap up a job when it was 90% done.

    Which was probably efficient as a way of making money from their work. That was the real knock on the Eagles, that they were businessmen first, professionals second, and artists last.

  130. @Anonymous Nephew
    Can't understand this anti-Black Dog stuff. Black Labs are lovely dogs.

    Of course Churchill didn't like his Black Dog, and I'm pretty sure Nick Drake didn't. Not sure about Led Zep.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/24/mental-health-black-dog-sculpture-campaign

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60vO4PttPdA

    Am I the only one who thinks "Hollywood Nights" is a great Seger song ? A kind of mirror-image/anti-particle "Don't Stop Believing".

    “Hollywood Nights” –great car song, turn up full blast, Pacific Coast Highway

    For me, the song still captures the aura of LA

    It reminds me of Scott Fitgerald’s line in “The Great Gatsby” (didn’t refer to LA, of course): “…where people breathe dreams like air.”

  131. @Steve Sailer
    Right, "Life in the Fast Lane" by The Eagles about a year or two before "Hollywood Nights" by Bob Seger.

    The Eagles brought a lot of songwriting professionalism to each song. That one is credited to Walsh, Henley, and Frey. The near perfect "Take It Easy" from early in their career is credited to Henley, Frey, and two affiliated non-members of the band J.D. Souther, and Jackson Browne. The last one became a star later on his own, while Souther didn't, but his name pops up a lot in 1970s behind-the-scenes recollections.

    The professionalism of The Eagles has always been a controversial topic: were they betraying the anarchic spirit of rock and roll by being really good at what they did? I'd say: craftsmanship is good and they had an awful lot of it.

    I remember a New Yorker cartoon of decades ago. A woman is testifying to a cop at the Missing Person’s Bureau and says – “He was inordinately fond of the music of Sweelinck”.

    I’ve heard some Sweelinck. He’s not half as obscure as ‘Bob Seger’. I like most readers assumed you were referring to ‘Pete Seeger’.

    But back on topic – I got a little Cavalier King Charles Spaniel from a woman who couldn’t keep him anymore. I was unlikely to have bought one myself. The puppies cost $1,500. My cat was free at the pound. So I’m familiar with the notion that some kittens and puppies are worth more than others. Human babies too.

    No honest person can deny that a white baby is worth more than a black one. Surrogate mothers get at least $100,000 for a white baby. I can’t find a figure for black babies. There doesn’t seem to be much of a market. Let’s say $50,000. If that’s so, then those two lesbians who got a black kid should be able to sue.

  132. “Gilbert P says:

    Btw: I meant ‘Still the Same’ in above post.”

    I’m not a big Seger fan. I can listen to some of his songs – “Hollywood Nights”, “Mainstreet”, “Night Moves”. Some I just plain can’t stand – “Old Time Rock and Roll”, “Turn the Page” – I always change the station when they come on. However I think that “Still The Same” is one of the greatest popular songs of the late 70s.

  133. Apparently, lesbian eugenics, and lesbians in general, are such boring topics to people here, that they would prefer to simply change the subject of the thread to 1970s rock groups.

  134. “Which was probably efficient as a way of making money from their work. That was the real knock on the Eagles, that they were businessmen first, professionals second, and artists last”

    That is more Irving Azoff, than Henley or Frey. Henley called him ” our Satan” at the RnR HOF.

  135. “. I mean all that palaver with frozen straws, liquid nitrogen, multiple donors etc could (not so) purely and simply be eliminated, with the right tools for the right job, to coin a phrase, and the ethnicity of the said meat syringe – and its vital load – is known beyond doubt.”

    It’s not obvious to you? Most seeking donors were married couples, with infertile husbands. An anonymous donor was certainly less emotionally dramatic than engaging in an affair with said donor, who might not be attracted anyway. Is that so hard to understand? In fact, if you are not attracted to someone, it’s difficult to engage in that sort of intimacy. It’s another thing to just be treated for infertility with somebody’s sperm. That’s really how they looked at the operation.

  136. The was another monster rally yesterday in France to protest against gay marriage and the legalization of artificial insemination and the use of surrogate mothers by gay and lesbian couples. I went to check if this march too has been given the same nearly total media blackout as the other marches had and it has. Two exceptions are Russia’s RT and the potty-mouthed feminist website Jezebel:
    “500,000 A******s Take to the Streets of France to Protest Gay Rights”

    http://jezebel.com/500-000-assholes-take-to-the-streets-of-france-to-prote-1642874247

    It’s really cool how the mainstream media bothers to run stories about the current Socialist government’s record low unpopularity but refuses to mention this giant pro-family, traditionalist elephant in the room.

  137. […] The presumption of racism. Related: What’s racist and what is not. Related: Lesbian sues because her baby is black. […]

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