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From the New York Times:

Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

With college prices in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, more middle-class families are looking for ways to spend less for quality education.

By KYLE SPENCER APRIL 5, 2018

PASADENA, Calif. — When top students from the sun-dappled suburbs that surround Pasadena, Calif., graduate from high school, they are expected to go to colleges that are prestigious, pricey and often far away. Last year, seniors from La Cañada High School, one of the highest rated in the state, fanned across the country to M.I.T., the University of Michigan and Yale.

But 18-year-old Annie Shahverdian, the daughter of a commercial real estate agent and a nursing administrator, started her higher ed journey closer to home, 15 minutes down the road at the local community college. To save money, she is planning to spend two years at Pasadena City College, a two-year public institution, before heading to what she hopes will be a top four-year university where she will earn her bachelor’s degree.

“My parents don’t want to just throw money around now,” Ms. Shahverdian said as she walked across Pasadena’s 53-acre campus, heading toward her English class. “I’m getting a great education at a fraction of the cost.”

Pasadena City College, where my dad went, has a nice campus, a couple of blocks from Caltech. Pasadena is the oldest old money part of SoCal, so it’s full of amenities.

I kind of doubt that this is an actual trend, other than it reflects upon something I’ve remarked upon before: West Asian parents, like, presumably, the Shahverdians, don’t like sending their daughters away to college at 17 or 18. Also, they like a good deal, and they are aware of the huge back door for transferring from the community college system to UCLA. It’s ridiculously hard to get into UCLA these days as a freshman, but much easier as a JuCo transfer.

The junior colleges in the Armenian belt (e.g., Glendale) have thus been upgrading.

Regular upper middle class white parents in Southern California seem pretty oblivious to these considerations, and generally let their kids cajole them into sending them across the country to, say, Pennsylvania, where they discover, to their dismay, that the weather isn’t as nice.

There’s a stereotype that freshman coeds tend to get depressed when they go off to their dream college (e.g., Tom Wolfe’s I Am Charlotte Simmons). For some unknown reason, research universities haven’t been enthusiastic about researching this topic, although UCLA is a few months into a multiyear study.

The Armenian view is generally: well, then, don’t send your daughter off to live in a dorm until she’s a little more mature.

 
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  1. The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don’t go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right, so that's why it works better if it's a community thing: if the Armenians, Maronites, etc. send their 108 IQ kids to Pasadena or Glendale CC, then it works better for them.
    , @Steve Sailer
    There was a great article in Edmunds about 15 years ago about what it's like to be a car salesman and how pretty soon you start dressing like a car salesman because you spend all your time with other car salesmen and the women who like car salesmen.
    , @Anonymous
    Blue collar union guys in areas where they make real money often marry up,especially if they can retire with 20 in and do college and grad or professional education for a second career: fire, police, etc. A prominent local female surgeon married a BNSF road foreman recently. She makes more than twice what he does, but he’ll retire with two fat pensions. Her dad gave them a pair of best grade Holland and Holland 12 bore guns as a wedding present, a six figure buy.
    , @The Alarmist
    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've spotted an elitist.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    I think, certainly in the UK, more and more women will either be spinsters or marry "down", at least as far as education is concerned. This is baked in now, because more females go to university.

    Women (as a group - YMMV) prefer to marry up as far as hard cash is concerned - but the plumbers round my way live in detached houses with a couple of acres of garden and new 4x4s on the drive, so that shouldn't be a problem.

    The only thing is, what's in it for Joe Plumber when a woman with a Masters in English is interested?
    , @Mike1
    Your logic is mostly wrong. Yes, you will interact with blue collar workers. That has numerous disadvantages. A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances.

    I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income. I don't mean seven figure revenue, I mean seven figures after he pays the bills. He has dozens of electricians working for him in a market where that is an incredibly difficult thing to achieve. He lives a lifestyle that people like you are probably unaware even exists.

    This is one of those areas where IQ and being above average come into play. He could be like his workers who struggle to turn up on time, spend all their money quickly and yes (gasp!) marry blue collar women but he behaved differently.

    I've yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    On the other hand, the problem with going to an elite college is you end up spending your time with soft-headed elitists and not learning how to actually do anything.
    .

    -This message brought to you by the Department of Overgeneralization-

    , @Jimi
    This isn't a problem if your Armenian daughter's social life is attending Armenian weddings, hanging out with Armenian friends through whom she meets Armenian men to date.
    , @bjondo
    Much better to go to IVYs and hang around and become like: Wolfowitz, Summers, pick a Bush, Bernanke, Dershowitz, Blankfein, and other morally deficient thugs.

    Positive value to American society is zero. Negative value cannot be measured.

    Will trade the lot for one plumber or electrician or carpenter or auto mechanic or surveyor.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. I had never heard of I am Charlotte Simmons but upon the summary in Wikipedia, it lines up with my reasons of co-ed disillusionment at college. Now that the female:male ratio is increasing, it only exacerbates the problem. Add into that co-eds generally have an inflated view of their value in the sexual marketplace. Note, none of this new; Roissy talked about it for years.

    BTW, you had mentioned a book club. I am still interested in joining.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    If more women than men in college, why would female value be inflated there?
    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    Will be glad to revisit the Tom Wolfe oeuvre as part of any "Noticing through Literature" Book Club our genial host decides to share.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. Sending your daughter to college across the country- it’s a bad decision just below, in descending order of testosterone:
    # Encouraging her to join the Marines
    # Encouraging her to join the Army
    # Encouraging her to join the Navy
    # Encouraging her to join the Air Force

    Actually, the Air Force might be a better idea than college in terms of the feet of d*ck she’ll go through in a four year enlistment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I can't make any sense of this comment.
    , @AndrewR
    As an Air Force vet, I can assure you that a female airman can go through as many guys as she wants, although I'll admit that Air Force guys are probably less sexually aggressive than Marines.
    , @L Woods
    Two types of military women: lesbians and sex tourists.
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  4. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    Right, so that’s why it works better if it’s a community thing: if the Armenians, Maronites, etc. send their 108 IQ kids to Pasadena or Glendale CC, then it works better for them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @M_Young
    Being a 'JuCo' transfer graduate of a UC(SB) college myself, I know it is in a sense a 'backdoor', but hardly unknown to regular old white folks.

    UCSB had a special program for us community college transfers, indeed a dorm for us. As far as I can tell, most of us thrived.

    I would say that most of us...took three years to graduate upon transfer.

    Now, the habit of sending kids off to someplace to study at Community College, which was evident even in my early to mid 1990s era (((Westside))) LA kids studying at SBCC., is ridiculous (maybe deadly!) But JCs offer a good alternative to the current grind.
    , @Charles Pewitt
    108 IQ, that's sounds smart enough to me to understand things.

    I think I have a 110 IQ. I give myself ten extra points above 100 to make sure I have some distance from a 99 IQ. There are people in the world with an IQ of 99. I bet they want to have that triple digit IQ.

    Kenny Lofton has a career .299 batting average. Lofton probably wishes he had a .310 career batting average. It's damn impressive to have a .299 career batting average, all the same.

    A 99 IQ ain't impressive unless you're from Sub-Saharan Africa and you're a blue gummer.

    110 IQ guy says focus on monetary policy and mass immigration.

    Debt and Demography.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    There was a great article in Edmunds about 15 years ago about what it’s like to be a car salesman and how pretty soon you start dressing like a car salesman because you spend all your time with other car salesmen and the women who like car salesmen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That was an amazing article, paying a reporter to get a second job -- for three months! -- at a car dealership. It wasn't one of those "freelance writer works three days at an Amazon warehouse and quits" things. The guy really put time into it, and Edunds bankrolled him.

    http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. Anon[212] • Disclaimer says:

    Off topic, but has this article or one like it ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-politicization-of-the-mcat/article/2012198 ), about the MCAT being revamped in 2015 to include questions of political orthodoxy, come to your attention yet?

    One MCAT practice question (from a collaboration between the AAMC and online-education nonprofit Khan Academy), for example, asks whether the wage gap between men and women is the result of bigotry, sexism, racism, or biological differences (no other options are provided, and the “correct” answer is sexism). Another asks whether the “lack of minorities such as African Americans or Latinos/Latinas among university faculty members” is due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias (the correct answer is institutional racism).

    In response to questions about these developments and their effects, the AAMC’s executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization’s recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as “a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice” on behalf of the nation’s academic medical institutions, and stresses the importance of “advancing a well-trained, culturally competent, and diverse health and biomedical workforce.” Grover further explained that the revised MCAT “tests students on the knowledge and skills that future physicians need to practice in a changing health care system and serve a changing patient population” and establishes a foundation for learning “about the socio-cultural and behavioral determinants of health.”

    Was optimism that the GRE can’t fall because it’s too important to graduate schools premature? Is this article a subtle hoax?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How would these political MCAT questions be scored? Would they just be dumped into the pot with all your other answers to produce a single numeric result? Or will we have two scores, Cognitive and Social Justice? Or will your Social Justice percentage be multiplied by your Cognitive score and released as a single, otherwise unexplained score?

    Some of those samples sound too tricky for black pre-meds to figure out. "[L]ack of ... African Americans ... among university faculty members ... due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias." You'd have to have actually paid attention in your Studies class to answer this. The only way I could figure it out is that it wouldn't be personal bias, and symbolic and hidden are not official jargon words like "institutional," so they were probably just made up as filler for the answers.

    People tell me that tests and interviews for ed. school masters programs are full of these questions. You'd have to be a psychopath to be able to fake your way in if you don't agree with the SJ program.

    , @ogunsiron
    GRE can't fall ? There's nothing that can't fall. If there is even one western institution that's actively resisting the "rising tide of color", it's a secret one that we don't know about. "Educated" Whites are on board with this dismantling to an incomprehensible extent. The various POCs ? Of course they're on board with this passing of the flame.
    , @ogunsiron

    AAMC’s executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization’s recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as “a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice” on behalf of the nation’s academic medical institutions,
     
    Jordan Peterson has been speaking and writing about the same kind of thing happening in Canada. Social justice being systematically inserted into professional codes of conduct in such a way that in order to practice this or that profession, you'll need to pledge allegiance to intersectionality.
    , @Karl
    6 Anon[212] > One MCAT practice question


    for a few months, __We are in America__ (the Hebrew-language magazine of Los Angeles) had ads for a medical school in Belarus, whose graduates are allowed to sit for MD licensure exams in USA.

    US citizenship is required of students
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  7. OT

    BREAKING: Another false-flag in Syria? Just a week after Trump tells us he wants to pull out? Who woulda thunk it!

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/new-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-being-reported-by-all-the-usual-suspects-bb52e9a4f982

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Chief Rabbi: We must work to stop massacre in Syria
    'As Jews, who went through national extermination, whose Torah is a light unto the nations, it is our moral duty to act.'
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/244101
     

    ISRAELI OFFICIALS: U.S. MUST STRIKE IN SYRIA
    http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-officals-US-must-strike-in-Syria-549144
     
    How many more countries have to be destroyed, and millions have to die, for this shitty little pseudo-country founded on stolen land??
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    Yes, right on cue. The power of the neoconservatives within the national security apparatus is really quite chilling.
    , @Altai
    It's amazing how Putin and Assad just get the blood lust and decide to use chemical weapons (In Assad's case, weapons the US government and UN accepted were totally destroyed) to recklessly kill civilians for no gain, the very kinds of acts that they know are considered causus belli just at the right times to derail their progress and threaten war with an enemy they can't defeat.

    I can't think of any other explanation. I mean, when did the neocons calmly and without guilt try to use the media to push faulty narratives to get the US military to destroy countries on Israel's hitlist?
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  8. I attended a community college for two years and then transferred to Cal State. I was paying for my own education, so I had to consider money.

    Read More
    • Replies: @fred c dobbs
    I have a better idea! Be old. LOL

    I'm about Sailer's age. Tuition in late 70s at UCSB was under $1000 per year. Yes, a better deal could have been had at Ventura Junior College, and I did take a few classes there during a couple summers, but even in late 1970s' dollars the difference wasn't THAT much...
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  9. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:

    How does this affect the credential value of a UCLA diploma, if your resume says you were two years at a CC? And is two years at UCLA enough time to earn an M.R.S. degree?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Your resume wouldn't say that.
    , @AndrewR
    I doubt UCLA has less rigorous graduation requirements for transfer students than for students who start at UCLA as freshmen.

    But regardless, I wouldn't list any school on my CV unless I got a degree from there. I would just list the degree, school, and year of conferral.

    , @Seth Largo
    It affects nothing because the degree is the same. It does not have an asterisk. I did it this way and now I'm a tenure-track humanities professor and no one cares that I barely graduated high school, worked retail for two years, and got into a good school via CC transfer.
    , @EdwardM
    It doesn't affect the credential value. But it may affect the networking value, if you don't have the same opportunity to bond with your freshman-year dorm-mates, work your way up to leadership roles in extracurricular activities, etc. -- or, if one's goal is to pursue the M.R.S., join a sorority.

    Then again, a place like UCLA is so huge and atomized that maybe one doesn't lose much joining mid-stream. One of the good things about UCLA (it was one of my three finalists before I attended a similar school) is that, despite the looney left institutional culture on all college campuses, there is really something for everyone. Anyone can find a niche to pursue one's goals, if one is mature enough to navigate. (Most aren't; I wasn't.)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. Anonymous[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    Blue collar union guys in areas where they make real money often marry up,especially if they can retire with 20 in and do college and grad or professional education for a second career: fire, police, etc. A prominent local female surgeon married a BNSF road foreman recently. She makes more than twice what he does, but he’ll retire with two fat pensions. Her dad gave them a pair of best grade Holland and Holland 12 bore guns as a wedding present, a six figure buy.

    Read More
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  11. @Steve Sailer
    Right, so that's why it works better if it's a community thing: if the Armenians, Maronites, etc. send their 108 IQ kids to Pasadena or Glendale CC, then it works better for them.

    Being a ‘JuCo’ transfer graduate of a UC(SB) college myself, I know it is in a sense a ‘backdoor’, but hardly unknown to regular old white folks.

    UCSB had a special program for us community college transfers, indeed a dorm for us. As far as I can tell, most of us thrived.

    I would say that most of us…took three years to graduate upon transfer.

    Now, the habit of sending kids off to someplace to study at Community College, which was evident even in my early to mid 1990s era (((Westside))) LA kids studying at SBCC., is ridiculous (maybe deadly!) But JCs offer a good alternative to the current grind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lugash

    Now, the habit of sending kids off to someplace to study at Community College, which was evident even in my early to mid 1990s era (((Westside))) LA kids studying at SBCC., is ridiculous (maybe deadly!) But JCs offer a good alternative to the current grind.
     
    Going out of state to study at a CC is a real thing now. I worked at a CC for a few years recently. From what I gathered, the kids doing this were evenly split between kids in California who faced crowded CCs or long commutes and those from the hinterlands of America.

    Going back to school at a CC to stop the clock on student loan payments was also a thing.

    One point against CCs: The one I worked at had a few white misfits who seemed to be protected like a couple of our recent school shooters. I'm not sure if they were protected by policy or law, but they didn't belong at school.
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  12. Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Never heard of Maria Felix. Should I care?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Here’s a thing: In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there were a lot of Armenians, who occupied the niches of middlemen together with Jews. Armenians were traders, crafters etc – yet, somehow, there are absolutely no stereotypes of Armenians in Poland.

    Heck, we had bunch os Scotts who escaped to PLC and started to work as traders – and we got stereotypes of Scotts as being stingy greedy m**f**rs. Yet nothing about Armenians. Strange, huh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Nicholas Kristof's surname is Polish Armenian.
    , @ogunsiron
    I had a bulgarian friend who told me that there was an armenian community in Bulgaria. According to him, they were seen as arrogant and crooked. It seemed to me that there traditionally was low level resentment against the armenians, but nothing like the traditional resentment against jews.
    , @Obsessive Contrarian
    Not strange. The Polish Commonwealth was Catholic and the Jews were by law, Christ-killers.

    Jews, Armenians, etc. were in the Ottoman Empire and the Muslim Caliphate didn't hate Jews at all. They hated Armenians. Not strange.

    I know what you are saying: Jews are simply, essentially, hateful. So just say so outright instead of being such a passive-aggressive POS.
    , @MBlanc46
    From the stories our friends from Burbank tell about Armenians, there must be a stereotype that Armenians are not good neighbors.
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  14. @szopen
    Here's a thing: In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there were a lot of Armenians, who occupied the niches of middlemen together with Jews. Armenians were traders, crafters etc - yet, somehow, there are absolutely no stereotypes of Armenians in Poland.

    Heck, we had bunch os Scotts who escaped to PLC and started to work as traders - and we got stereotypes of Scotts as being stingy greedy m**f**rs. Yet nothing about Armenians. Strange, huh?

    Nicholas Kristof’s surname is Polish Armenian.

    Read More
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  15. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we’ve spotted an elitist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Silva
    I'm fully in favor of people averagely-educated for my country having everything they need to have lives they like, and I wouldn't think about inviting aliens to make their lives worse. I just don't want to be near them much. Which, of course, I am.
    , @AnonAnon

    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we’ve spotted an elitist.
     
    No, just realistic. It's the same reason you put your kid in honors and AP classes in a diverse high school - to get them away from the kids who aren't there to learn. Most white parents I know whose kids were either marginal four-year material or trying to save money live at home and go to the local Cal State, since each Cal State has a "local preference" admission zone with a lower bar for admission than the rest of the state.
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  16. Anonymous[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    There was a great article in Edmunds about 15 years ago about what it's like to be a car salesman and how pretty soon you start dressing like a car salesman because you spend all your time with other car salesmen and the women who like car salesmen.

    That was an amazing article, paying a reporter to get a second job — for three months! — at a car dealership. It wasn’t one of those “freelance writer works three days at an Amazon warehouse and quits” things. The guy really put time into it, and Edunds bankrolled him.

    http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It's a great article.
    , @Lot
    I further endorse it, possibly the best investigative journalism of the 2000s.

    Somewhat similar is "Nickled and Dimed." Comfy second and third gen white collar people should know more about how the society we create screws the rest of the population in a million little ways.
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  17. Anonymous[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Off topic, but has this article or one like it ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-politicization-of-the-mcat/article/2012198 ), about the MCAT being revamped in 2015 to include questions of political orthodoxy, come to your attention yet?

    One MCAT practice question (from a collaboration between the AAMC and online-education nonprofit Khan Academy), for example, asks whether the wage gap between men and women is the result of bigotry, sexism, racism, or biological differences (no other options are provided, and the "correct" answer is sexism). Another asks whether the "lack of minorities such as African Americans or Latinos/Latinas among university faculty members" is due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias (the correct answer is institutional racism).
     

    In response to questions about these developments and their effects, the AAMC's executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization's recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as "a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice" on behalf of the nation's academic medical institutions, and stresses the importance of "advancing a well-trained, culturally competent, and diverse health and biomedical workforce." Grover further explained that the revised MCAT "tests students on the knowledge and skills that future physicians need to practice in a changing health care system and serve a changing patient population" and establishes a foundation for learning "about the socio-cultural and behavioral determinants of health."
     
    Was optimism that the GRE can't fall because it's too important to graduate schools premature? Is this article a subtle hoax?

    How would these political MCAT questions be scored? Would they just be dumped into the pot with all your other answers to produce a single numeric result? Or will we have two scores, Cognitive and Social Justice? Or will your Social Justice percentage be multiplied by your Cognitive score and released as a single, otherwise unexplained score?

    Some of those samples sound too tricky for black pre-meds to figure out. “[L]ack of … African Americans … among university faculty members … due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias.” You’d have to have actually paid attention in your Studies class to answer this. The only way I could figure it out is that it wouldn’t be personal bias, and symbolic and hidden are not official jargon words like “institutional,” so they were probably just made up as filler for the answers.

    People tell me that tests and interviews for ed. school masters programs are full of these questions. You’d have to be a psychopath to be able to fake your way in if you don’t agree with the SJ program.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    How would these political MCAT questions be scored? Would they just be dumped into the pot with all your other answers to produce a single numeric result?

     

    Presumably the final score will be increasingly weighted towards getting the PC section right as the years pass.
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  18. @Anonymous
    That was an amazing article, paying a reporter to get a second job -- for three months! -- at a car dealership. It wasn't one of those "freelance writer works three days at an Amazon warehouse and quits" things. The guy really put time into it, and Edunds bankrolled him.

    http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    It’s a great article.

    Read More
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  19. Friends in Georgia and Michigan have told me similar stories about the value-for-money realist approach to using community college for the initial post high school stage of their kids’ education.

    Read More
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  20. Community colleges are an even bigger ripoff than the state schools, and I say that as someone who actually liked it there.

    There is a gigantic CC just down the road from me. It seems I’ve had a relationship with this place for most of my life. I took Taekwon-Do classes there as kid; I frequently check out books from the library; and I’ve enrolled there several times throughout my life. I did some of my high school credits there as well as some of my college.

    It is an immense concrete structure built in what I like to call the American Brezhnev style, with corridors that seem to stretch on for miles. And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place. They have a first-rate nursing program there as well as some vo-tech. When I think of the generations of students that have passed through it—ordinary people working out their simple destinies, getting jobs, making families—it reminds me of a saner time in America when ordinary life didn’t have to be so bad.

    I miss that time the same way I miss arcade games and girls in jean jackets with notebooks clutched to their chests, filled with copious notes in their long, florid hand. I miss it the way I miss walking into a bowling alley on hot July afternoon and being hit with smell of stale cigarette smoke and air conditioning.

    I feel the ghosts of those things at the college, but I do not care for the reality of it now. It is ridiculously expensive to go there. The place thrives off the gravy train of endless student loans doled out to hopelessly naive aspirants who will never make good on them. And although I met some fine teachers there, I still think they ought to be ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    20 Intelligent Dasein > ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges


    most of post- hunter/gatherer economy is parasitic


    all of religion is parasitic

    Look.... did Mrs iSteve ACTUALLY NEED a new kitchen? Was the family dying from lack of world's-most-quiet dishwasher?


    what is YOUR occupation, Mr Dasein?
    , @Old Palo Altan
    "And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place".

    If that's your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.
    , @Lot
    Brutalist architecture just looks like it is cheap to build and maintain. It is actually expensive to build and very expensive to maintain.

    Boston's hideous City Hall, possibly the ugliest building I have ever seen in person, is a maintenance nightmare that probably won't last more than 80 years. (The other candidate for ugliest building is the Los Angeles CalTrans building.)

    , @Anonymous
    Loans??? The place near me in N. Cal. charges ~$45 a unit for tuition and the enrolled typically live with their parents. It's not exactly a Wall Street goldmine. Plus, getting the tuition waived is easy: they even have a separate building to sign you up for programs, Cloward-Piven style. Many white middle-class twentysomethings (usually working b.s. retail jobs but sometimes with pretty good healthcare or clerical employment) somehow manage to get the waiver. Of course military vets attend for free.

    The waste, even at a "glittery" place like Pasadena, is not remotely in the ballpark of the state uni's. I feel this is 100% due to the lingering anti-cachet of the 1950s-ish concept of a JuCo-- whereas I've seen public high schools in Redondo Beach or Concord that were Byzantine summer palaces by comparison. The CC faculty salaries, published on TransparentCalifornia.com, aren't that great considering the local cost of living; I know of tenured faculty driving in from 40+ mi. away. There are still useless diversity counselors but these have less power because it's a commuter campus. Deans don't investigate your personal life, in fact, nobody in the student population is really aware of the brass on a day-to-day basis. The local tantrum-throwers had trouble recruiting enough idlers to protest the Stephon Clark shooting recently.

    The only "rip-off" about community college is that an associate's degree means nothing except as the first half of a bachelor's degree, which also now means nothing.

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  21. I’m going to have my kids get a two year degree with a trade specialty that they can use immediately to get a job, and then follow up with a professional degree if it suits them.

    You can, for example, get a two year degree and an opticianry certificate. That will pretty much guarantee a decent job. Then, if you are up to it, you can study more and become an optometrist, and make good money as a professional.

    There are many, many options along those lines.

    For those of us who are of modest means, like most Americans, it’s the most sensible course of action. It also keeps the kids from becoming influenced by college culture, because they are more focused on training for a job than on the stupid stuff like student “movements” and drunken hookups at keggers.

    Finally, most kids, including most intelligent people’s kids, are barely bright enough to use a four year degree. A four year degree is really only helpful for people in the top quartile or so of IQ. Even if two very bright people have a kid, it’s as likely as not that he won’t make the cut, while for average people, obviously, he probably won’t. So there should be more support for community colleges and trade schools, and probably somewhat less for four year institutions.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Good for you. Kids need to hear, calmly and consistently, that parents can give some ofthe means to build a good life, as in the ability to support yourself and those you love. But it’s up to them to actually build that life, and give it meaning.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    This. In spades.
    , @nebulafox
    >Finally, most kids, including most intelligent people’s kids, are barely bright enough to use a four year degree.

    Beyond that, there are plenty of kids who are in that top quartile, but are nowhere near mature enough at 18 for college, especially if they aren't used to making their own decisions. I have rather personal experience with this one... that, and many kids, especially the ones taking teen-numbers of APs or college courses, are simply pretty burnt out after 12 years of non-stop schooling.

    Yet our educational system has set up massive structural incentives to go to college at 18, and it is profoundly counterproductive, not least because older students (both undergraduate and graduate) tended to be way, way better students and researchers. Speaking as someone born in the 1990s who went to a variety of schools in different socioeconomic millieus, ranging from dirt poor to snobby rich, we were all pretty much nevertheless bombarded with the message that you *had* had had to go to college right out of high school, so that for many of us, it quite literally didn't occur to us that other options-deferring college to work for a year or two, for example-were, well, options. And given that our economic system is such that many jobs that don't use bachelor degrees now require them simply as a way of filtering out resumes...

    It's definitely a problem. I'm in Asia right now, and South Korea and Taiwan are struggling with massive educational oversupply, dwarfing ours, in part due to the Confucian hyper-emphasis on education. (Something like over 60% of young Koreans have BS degrees.) So many college grads that the economy can't handle. Kind of reminds me of what happened to Iran with all the high school grads the White Revolution produced. Illiterate laborers were paid more than high school grads in 1970s Iran, and you'd better believe that was a key factor in pushing a lot of underemployed young men to the mullahs.

    >I’m going to have my kids get a two year degree with a trade specialty that they can use immediately to get a job, and then follow up with a professional degree if it suits them.

    I genuinely tip my hat to you, sir, because lot of the older people I've met who advocate trade degrees always mean it for somebody else's average kids, never their own.

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  22. @ScarletNumber
    I had never heard of I am Charlotte Simmons but upon the summary in Wikipedia, it lines up with my reasons of co-ed disillusionment at college. Now that the female:male ratio is increasing, it only exacerbates the problem. Add into that co-eds generally have an inflated view of their value in the sexual marketplace. Note, none of this new; Roissy talked about it for years.

    BTW, you had mentioned a book club. I am still interested in joining.

    If more women than men in college, why would female value be inflated there?

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Their value is self-inflated. They think because a male 7 showed them some attention once that they themselves are 7's when they are really 4's.
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  23. @Paul Rain
    Sending your daughter to college across the country- it's a bad decision just below, in descending order of testosterone:
    # Encouraging her to join the Marines
    # Encouraging her to join the Army
    # Encouraging her to join the Navy
    # Encouraging her to join the Air Force

    Actually, the Air Force might be a better idea than college in terms of the feet of d*ck she'll go through in a four year enlistment.

    I can’t make any sense of this comment.

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  24. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    I think, certainly in the UK, more and more women will either be spinsters or marry “down”, at least as far as education is concerned. This is baked in now, because more females go to university.

    Women (as a group – YMMV) prefer to marry up as far as hard cash is concerned – but the plumbers round my way live in detached houses with a couple of acres of garden and new 4x4s on the drive, so that shouldn’t be a problem.

    The only thing is, what’s in it for Joe Plumber when a woman with a Masters in English is interested?

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  25. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:

    What you say is true, but after reading The Case against Education by Bryan Caplan (?) I don’t know what I’d do. A degree is 80 percent signaling and a huge expense, but employers won’t hire you at a Starbucks workout one.

    But yeah, below the top quartile you just come out with some idiot degree, even if you managed to graduate. Caplan wants the feds to pull all support, including student loans, and leave it up to the market and charities. Make college super expensive. Good luck with that.

    By the way, if you never took economics, the book is an impressive primer. It’s one, huge, worked problem.

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  26. @Bill P
    I'm going to have my kids get a two year degree with a trade specialty that they can use immediately to get a job, and then follow up with a professional degree if it suits them.

    You can, for example, get a two year degree and an opticianry certificate. That will pretty much guarantee a decent job. Then, if you are up to it, you can study more and become an optometrist, and make good money as a professional.

    There are many, many options along those lines.

    For those of us who are of modest means, like most Americans, it's the most sensible course of action. It also keeps the kids from becoming influenced by college culture, because they are more focused on training for a job than on the stupid stuff like student "movements" and drunken hookups at keggers.

    Finally, most kids, including most intelligent people's kids, are barely bright enough to use a four year degree. A four year degree is really only helpful for people in the top quartile or so of IQ. Even if two very bright people have a kid, it's as likely as not that he won't make the cut, while for average people, obviously, he probably won't. So there should be more support for community colleges and trade schools, and probably somewhat less for four year institutions.

    Good for you. Kids need to hear, calmly and consistently, that parents can give some ofthe means to build a good life, as in the ability to support yourself and those you love. But it’s up to them to actually build that life, and give it meaning.

    Read More
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  27. “Blue collar union guys in areas where they make real money often marry up,especially if they can retire with 20 in and do college and grad or professional education for a second career: fire, police, etc. A prominent local female surgeon married a BNSF road foreman recently. She makes more than twice what he does, but he’ll retire with two fat pensions. Her dad gave them a pair of best grade Holland and Holland 12 bore guns as a wedding present, a six figure buy.”

    Right. But the exception proves the rule. I’m in the doctor community. Doctors often marry doctors (or lawyers, or other professionals whom they met in college). Doctors also marry nurses (though less than you would think. Doctors marrying doctors seems to be far more common). Electricians marry secretaries (if they bother to marry at all). The class sorting system that is our society, which is widely commented upon, and widely noticed, is real. Marrying up seems to be mostly restricted to 1) men marrying female doctors, who 2) met their spouses before they were doctors.

    “Ladies and gentlemen, I think we’ve spotted an elitist.”

    You’re commenting on a site devoted to the social implications of IQ differences and HBD, and you’ve only now noticed elitests? Its nice to see you finally catching on…

    joe

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    Doctors, like lawyers, have their own deficiencies.

    Morally, I'd tend to put doctors on a higher plane. However, just as lawyers are generally people who work with words yet cannot write anything compelling to those outside their profession, doctors are tradesmen of the flesh who have a hard time venturing beyond their professional vista.

    It would be for the better if more doctors married outside their profession. This class sorting is a bad thing in a cohesive population, and wise men have tried to mitigate the tendency for thousands of years. The best way to improve a people is to improve the mean, which is not accomplished by rigid class hierarchies (e.g. India).
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  28. There’s a stereotype that freshman coeds tend to get depressed when they go off to their dream college (e.g., Tom Wolfe’s I Am Charlotte Simmons). For some unknown reason, research universities haven’t been enthusiastic about researching this topic, although UCLA is a few months into a multiyear study.

    This wouldn’t surprise me in the least. I suspect many college girls suffer from a mild form of depersonalization/derealization disorder, also known as dissociative identity disorder. According to an earlier edition of the DSM, this may “occur in individuals who have been subjected to periods of prolonged and intense coercive persuasion (e.g., brainwashing, thought reform, or indoctrination while captive).” Traumatic loss is also known to bring on these symptoms, leading to that numbness that occurs in the early stages of grief. Although sudden geographical separation from friends and family is much less traumatic than death, I can’t imagine there are no psychological consequences to this.

    https://psychcentral.com/disorders/dissociative-disorder-not-otherwise-specified-nos/

    People suffering from this condition may engage in strange, uncharacteristic behaviors they feel they can’t control.

    Of course, it is probably also true that separation from family is part of the reason for the intensity and longevity of friendships between college girls. So far as I can tell, nothing ever compares to these friendships later in life. Everyone is too busy with job, husband, and kids.

    The solution is not necessarily to prevent girls going away to college, especially if there is a good life-planning reason to do so. It just means that care should be taken to minimize any harm. A curfew, at least for freshman, would be a good start.

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  29. My youngest daughter is going to Silicon Valley’s community college, West Valley.

    Wants to go to UC for a degree in genetics.

    Problem is that UC just tightened the transfer requirements so she needs another year for the physics sequence. I smell corruption.

    Personally, I went to a junior college in NW Florida and when I transferred to the University of Florida, I thought I was better prepared than the four year students.

    The good news / bad news is that you miss two years of critical socializing.

    Still. A better deal economically and often pedagogically

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  30. I’m converting to Armenianism.

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  31. I went to PCC fall semester 1967. It seemed like it was full of longhair guys in fringe jackets avoiding the draft..they disappeared the next semester. A black girl in English 1A asked, How will I use this in real life? LOL. Also she told me how some black power students told her she shouldn’t straighten her hair and she was very irritated.

    I did not appreciate PCC even though they had everything you’d need the first two years, in day and evening classes. And it was free….jeez….

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  32. Another alternative may be convincing colleges to offer three year degrees. UK universities all offer three year bachelor’s degrees and now there is talk of having them offer two year degrees by teaching through the summer term too.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Ali, My youngest daughter graduated from a Jesuit College with a four year degree in Accounting. She didn't choose her Major until her sophomore year, interned for her present employer as a first semester senior and was hired full time in her second semester. By my count she could have done all of this in three years.
    , @Anonymous
    The three-year degree idea is gaining traction. The Chronicle of Higher Education had a five-article special report on the topic last week. Universities know that debt fear is driving students away.

    https://www.chronicle.com/specialreport/4-Years-for-a-Bachelor-s-/196

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  33. Community college worked for me. Made loads of money as a plumber doing heavy
    labor repairing sewer mains and the like. Most of my coworkers were disabled to
    some extent by 40. My wife who came from old Stanford money suggested I go to
    community college in Marin where we owned a nice home on the lower slopes
    of Mt. Tamalpais.
    Her inheritance paid for my education. Since it was unearned, we got 100% free
    financial aid as a family of four. Took 25 units a semester taking physical science
    and math courses at College of Marin. transferred to UCSC after a 1 1/2 half
    at community. Got my B.S. in chemistry in 21 months at UC.
    Taught chemistry and physics at an inner-city high school year-round
    in LAUSD for decades. After my social worker wife took early retirement, I took
    off 4 months a year (March, April, September, and October) for off-peak
    travel (100+ countries). Retired at 57 with reciprocal pensions and lifetime 100%
    medical and dental. Comfortable with our paid off home only a block from the ocean
    south of LA.
    The Socialist Republic of California has been good to us. Unfortunately the Golden
    State is now the economic Suicide State with unlimited immigration and attendant
    terminal budget bloat and social problems.

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    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Yeah I wouldn't count on those benefits being for life unless you already have one foot in the grave.
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  34. In Texas you can now easily get 2 years of cc in high school. Texas public universities are mandated by law to accept the class credits. It makes way more sense to take the community college classes on the high school campus than take AP classes as there is no standard test you need to pass to get credit.

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  35. Also, they like a good deal

    I worked in a business in the Inland Empire back in the 1990′s where I first encountered Armenians regularly. Right away I noticed that they tend to haggle.

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  36. This is something Dave Ramsay goes on about often.

    I like the AGCE that Arizona offers, where you can knock out your liberal arts and electives in JuCo and then when you hit university focus on your core classes of your degree. Maintain a GPA of over 2.5 and its automatic acceptance at any state school, as well as schools often having a “90/30″ plan where you can transfer 90 credits over from JuCo as long as you take 30 credits there.

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  37. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    OT

    BREAKING: Another false-flag in Syria? Just a week after Trump tells us he wants to pull out? Who woulda thunk it!

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/new-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-being-reported-by-all-the-usual-suspects-bb52e9a4f982

    Chief Rabbi: We must work to stop massacre in Syria
    ‘As Jews, who went through national extermination, whose Torah is a light unto the nations, it is our moral duty to act.’

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/244101

    ISRAELI OFFICIALS: U.S. MUST STRIKE IN SYRIA

    http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-officals-US-must-strike-in-Syria-549144

    How many more countries have to be destroyed, and millions have to die, for this shitty little pseudo-country founded on stolen land??

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    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    My word.
    It's so obvious. So, so obvious.
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  38. @Anonymous
    How does this affect the credential value of a UCLA diploma, if your resume says you were two years at a CC? And is two years at UCLA enough time to earn an M.R.S. degree?

    Your resume wouldn’t say that.

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  39. Some friends of mine from my hometown in the Midwest sent there daughter out here scholarship to a well-reputed private college here in AZ. I assume she had a pretty good scholarship. She was so homesick she left after the first semester.

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  40. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    Your logic is mostly wrong. Yes, you will interact with blue collar workers. That has numerous disadvantages. A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances.

    I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income. I don’t mean seven figure revenue, I mean seven figures after he pays the bills. He has dozens of electricians working for him in a market where that is an incredibly difficult thing to achieve. He lives a lifestyle that people like you are probably unaware even exists.

    This is one of those areas where IQ and being above average come into play. He could be like his workers who struggle to turn up on time, spend all their money quickly and yes (gasp!) marry blue collar women but he behaved differently.

    I’ve yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror.

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  41. @The Alarmist
    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've spotted an elitist.

    I’m fully in favor of people averagely-educated for my country having everything they need to have lives they like, and I wouldn’t think about inviting aliens to make their lives worse. I just don’t want to be near them much. Which, of course, I am.

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  42. @szopen
    Here's a thing: In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there were a lot of Armenians, who occupied the niches of middlemen together with Jews. Armenians were traders, crafters etc - yet, somehow, there are absolutely no stereotypes of Armenians in Poland.

    Heck, we had bunch os Scotts who escaped to PLC and started to work as traders - and we got stereotypes of Scotts as being stingy greedy m**f**rs. Yet nothing about Armenians. Strange, huh?

    I had a bulgarian friend who told me that there was an armenian community in Bulgaria. According to him, they were seen as arrogant and crooked. It seemed to me that there traditionally was low level resentment against the armenians, but nothing like the traditional resentment against jews.

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  43. There’s a stereotype that freshman coeds tend to get depressed when they go off to their dream college

    If by depressed you mean fat, hysterical and promiscuous then you are correct (at least that seems to be the case here in the Upper Midwest). Even if the dream college is just a low-tier state school 100 miles from home this seems to be the case.

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  44. English 101 is the same the world over. The CCs may have better English teachers because all they are expected to do is teach.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    This is true.

    I took some elective courses outside my major at the local CC, located a 10-minute drive from my house and respected enough that the credits were accepted by my university. One of the English Lit instructors was a retired Columbia prof bored with his retirement. I became friendly with an anthropology prof, a Jew who grew up poor in Roxbury, with a shadowy past in the OSS and numerous tales about interesting places.

    Both were total pros in the classroom.

    When I had a meeting with the director of the scholarship program I was part of at my "real" college, I commented about the high level of instruction at the Juco. He said he heard the same thing from many students.

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  45. @Anon
    Off topic, but has this article or one like it ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-politicization-of-the-mcat/article/2012198 ), about the MCAT being revamped in 2015 to include questions of political orthodoxy, come to your attention yet?

    One MCAT practice question (from a collaboration between the AAMC and online-education nonprofit Khan Academy), for example, asks whether the wage gap between men and women is the result of bigotry, sexism, racism, or biological differences (no other options are provided, and the "correct" answer is sexism). Another asks whether the "lack of minorities such as African Americans or Latinos/Latinas among university faculty members" is due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias (the correct answer is institutional racism).
     

    In response to questions about these developments and their effects, the AAMC's executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization's recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as "a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice" on behalf of the nation's academic medical institutions, and stresses the importance of "advancing a well-trained, culturally competent, and diverse health and biomedical workforce." Grover further explained that the revised MCAT "tests students on the knowledge and skills that future physicians need to practice in a changing health care system and serve a changing patient population" and establishes a foundation for learning "about the socio-cultural and behavioral determinants of health."
     
    Was optimism that the GRE can't fall because it's too important to graduate schools premature? Is this article a subtle hoax?

    GRE can’t fall ? There’s nothing that can’t fall. If there is even one western institution that’s actively resisting the “rising tide of color”, it’s a secret one that we don’t know about. “Educated” Whites are on board with this dismantling to an incomprehensible extent. The various POCs ? Of course they’re on board with this passing of the flame.

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  46. @Seamus Padraig
    OT

    BREAKING: Another false-flag in Syria? Just a week after Trump tells us he wants to pull out? Who woulda thunk it!

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/new-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-being-reported-by-all-the-usual-suspects-bb52e9a4f982

    Yes, right on cue. The power of the neoconservatives within the national security apparatus is really quite chilling.

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  47. @Anon
    Off topic, but has this article or one like it ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-politicization-of-the-mcat/article/2012198 ), about the MCAT being revamped in 2015 to include questions of political orthodoxy, come to your attention yet?

    One MCAT practice question (from a collaboration between the AAMC and online-education nonprofit Khan Academy), for example, asks whether the wage gap between men and women is the result of bigotry, sexism, racism, or biological differences (no other options are provided, and the "correct" answer is sexism). Another asks whether the "lack of minorities such as African Americans or Latinos/Latinas among university faculty members" is due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias (the correct answer is institutional racism).
     

    In response to questions about these developments and their effects, the AAMC's executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization's recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as "a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice" on behalf of the nation's academic medical institutions, and stresses the importance of "advancing a well-trained, culturally competent, and diverse health and biomedical workforce." Grover further explained that the revised MCAT "tests students on the knowledge and skills that future physicians need to practice in a changing health care system and serve a changing patient population" and establishes a foundation for learning "about the socio-cultural and behavioral determinants of health."
     
    Was optimism that the GRE can't fall because it's too important to graduate schools premature? Is this article a subtle hoax?

    AAMC’s executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization’s recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as “a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice” on behalf of the nation’s academic medical institutions,

    Jordan Peterson has been speaking and writing about the same kind of thing happening in Canada. Social justice being systematically inserted into professional codes of conduct in such a way that in order to practice this or that profession, you’ll need to pledge allegiance to intersectionality.

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  48. Regarding the back door to higher ed, wouldn’t it be interesting if people couldn’t get into UCLA because of affirmative action taking spots, but then when those spots wash out after one or two years, there are vacancies to fill for diligent 2 year college students!

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  49. @Paul Rain
    Sending your daughter to college across the country- it's a bad decision just below, in descending order of testosterone:
    # Encouraging her to join the Marines
    # Encouraging her to join the Army
    # Encouraging her to join the Navy
    # Encouraging her to join the Air Force

    Actually, the Air Force might be a better idea than college in terms of the feet of d*ck she'll go through in a four year enlistment.

    As an Air Force vet, I can assure you that a female airman can go through as many guys as she wants, although I’ll admit that Air Force guys are probably less sexually aggressive than Marines.

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  50. Living in SoCal and having just gone through the college application process, I can tell you that most of the really bright white kids in California do try to get into the good UCs/Cal Poly. But honestly, if you are white, you’d better have a 4.7+ GPA (that means all honors and double-digit numbers of the hardest AP classes/dual enrollment), at least a 34 ACT score, and be a four-year athlete to have a decent chance of getting into UCLA/Berkeley. At my kid’s US News Silver-ranked high school, that was the top 5%. (Parkland High School ‘survivor’ David Hogg’s whining about not getting into UCSB with a 4.2 and 1270 SAT was hilarious. He had no shot with those stats, even paying the OOS UC rate of $61K. I’m shocked he even got into Cal Poly but I wonder if some SJW type in admissions let him in after he got famous.) Kids who leave the state usually can’t get into UCSB (let alone Berkeley or UCLA) or Cal Poly for engineering but will get into Purdue and pay through the nose for it. ( [White male] kids with 4.6 GPAs who don’t get into UCSB is common.) Wealthy white kids aim for USC but it’s as hard to get into as UCLA. Many other state’s public universities offer automatic merit scholarships for bright California kids that make it attractive to look outside the state and bring the cost down close to a UC and sometimes a Cal State.

    You also forget that most of the top UCs are heavily Asian and that is another reason white kids often look outside the state for college. Additionally, not every kids enjoys the uber-liberal atmosphere (not to mention incredibly cutthroat student body) of Berkeley, no matter how prestigious it it. UCSB is the whitest of the UCs, at around something like 34%. From eye-balling it at open house, UCI is probably around 10% European white.

    You also have to take into account that the UCs/Cal Poly are heavily impacted, meaning that it’s very tough to change your major and/or graduate in four years. When you do the math, attending “roomier” Purdue, UVA, or CU Boulder with a bit of merit aid and getting out in four years is likely a push money-wise.

    I’ve also heard from other parents the community colleges are as impacted as the UCs/Cal States and take three years to get through, so you’re looking at 5-6 years to get a bachelors. You also need a near perfect GPA to transfer to the top UCs/Cal Poly. If you haunt College Confidential and reddit r/ApplyingToCollege forums you’ll see the stats of kids who got turned down for the UCs. The competition is brutal. UCLA and UCI got over 100,000 applications. Cal Poly got 65,000 this year, 12,000 more than last year. Competition for college in this state is insanely hard.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    UCSB and USC used to be known as party schools for wealthy White SoCal kids.
    , @Seth Largo
    There's always Cal Poly Pomona :)
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  51. The community college/local university track is very common with Asian students in my community. Or, I should say, very popular with their parents.

    If they aren’t going to Stanford or Rice, they live at home and earn their degree close by.

    The wealthy white kids all go to SEC schools because their folks can afford the costs (and many of them get really good scholarships since Alabama, Ole Miss, etc., are hungry for high-achieving out-of-staters).

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  52. @Anonymous
    How does this affect the credential value of a UCLA diploma, if your resume says you were two years at a CC? And is two years at UCLA enough time to earn an M.R.S. degree?

    I doubt UCLA has less rigorous graduation requirements for transfer students than for students who start at UCLA as freshmen.

    But regardless, I wouldn’t list any school on my CV unless I got a degree from there. I would just list the degree, school, and year of conferral.

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  53. “Tark ain’t white, man. He’s Armenian.” https://www.si.com/vault/1974/06/10/616126/427-a-case-in-point

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  54. @Anonymous
    That was an amazing article, paying a reporter to get a second job -- for three months! -- at a car dealership. It wasn't one of those "freelance writer works three days at an Amazon warehouse and quits" things. The guy really put time into it, and Edunds bankrolled him.

    http://www.dougsrepublic.com/PDF/carsalesman.pdf

    I further endorse it, possibly the best investigative journalism of the 2000s.

    Somewhat similar is “Nickled and Dimed.” Comfy second and third gen white collar people should know more about how the society we create screws the rest of the population in a million little ways.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Somewhat similar is “Nickled and Dimed.” Comfy second and third gen white collar people should know more about how the society we create screws the rest of the population in a million little ways.
     
    What do you think about "Nickel and Dimed"?

    I recently read the book and thought it was absolutely amazing. Some of the best investigative journalism I've seen. I thought the second part of the book (in which she works as a house cleaner) was particularly good and addresses lots of important issues.
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  55. I have a bunch of kids, and this is my go-to strategy. Another benefit is that it’s a pretty low risk way to find out if a kid is college material. It’s entirely possible for the kid to pay for those first two years themselves, if they are half-way disciplined in high school. And if it turns out college isn’t for them, there’s no debt weighing them down as they make a pivot.

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  56. Read More
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  57. @Steve Sailer
    Right, so that's why it works better if it's a community thing: if the Armenians, Maronites, etc. send their 108 IQ kids to Pasadena or Glendale CC, then it works better for them.

    108 IQ, that’s sounds smart enough to me to understand things.

    I think I have a 110 IQ. I give myself ten extra points above 100 to make sure I have some distance from a 99 IQ. There are people in the world with an IQ of 99. I bet they want to have that triple digit IQ.

    Kenny Lofton has a career .299 batting average. Lofton probably wishes he had a .310 career batting average. It’s damn impressive to have a .299 career batting average, all the same.

    A 99 IQ ain’t impressive unless you’re from Sub-Saharan Africa and you’re a blue gummer.

    110 IQ guy says focus on monetary policy and mass immigration.

    Debt and Demography.

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  58. @The Alarmist
    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we've spotted an elitist.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we’ve spotted an elitist.

    No, just realistic. It’s the same reason you put your kid in honors and AP classes in a diverse high school – to get them away from the kids who aren’t there to learn. Most white parents I know whose kids were either marginal four-year material or trying to save money live at home and go to the local Cal State, since each Cal State has a “local preference” admission zone with a lower bar for admission than the rest of the state.

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  59. @szopen
    Here's a thing: In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there were a lot of Armenians, who occupied the niches of middlemen together with Jews. Armenians were traders, crafters etc - yet, somehow, there are absolutely no stereotypes of Armenians in Poland.

    Heck, we had bunch os Scotts who escaped to PLC and started to work as traders - and we got stereotypes of Scotts as being stingy greedy m**f**rs. Yet nothing about Armenians. Strange, huh?

    Not strange. The Polish Commonwealth was Catholic and the Jews were by law, Christ-killers.

    Jews, Armenians, etc. were in the Ottoman Empire and the Muslim Caliphate didn’t hate Jews at all. They hated Armenians. Not strange.

    I know what you are saying: Jews are simply, essentially, hateful. So just say so outright instead of being such a passive-aggressive POS.

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    I know what you are saying: Jews are simply, essentially, hateful. So just say so outright instead of being such a passive-aggressive POS.
     
    Do not push a child into my belly.

    I never said, never implied and I do not think that Jews are "simply, essentially, hateful". In my post I brought a case of Scots, catholics, about whom we do have stereotypes. We have stereotypes about Germans. About Gypsies.About Russians. Yet you have to think it's about Jews. SOme kind of paranoia, I think.

    , @J.Ross
    You are objectively factually incorrect here. Poland had religious liberty, a minority of Calvinists, and any Pole who wanted to bring a legal case against a Jew would find that the Constitution privileged them over him and raised the required number of witnesses.
    The basis of Eastern European anti-Semitism wasn't theology, it was the flagrant abuse of privileges which were clearly originally meant to prevent bigotry.
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  60. Here’s something interesting – Ethnic composition of UCLA students

    Asian 31.6%
    White 26.1%
    Hispanic 21.3%
    Black 5.2%
    International 11.8%

    Back in the ’60s practically all universities in the U.S, including UCLA,
    were close to 90% white. And not so long ago, around 2000, both white and
    Asian percentages at UCLA were about the same ~ 40%.

    California is now 37% white, 39% Hispanic, and 15% Asian. Both Hispanic and
    Asian percentages are rising rapidly, while whites, the oldest group, are declining.
    The Asian percentage at UCLA is probably closer to 40% since the international
    students are mostly Asian. Whites at UCLA are heavily Jewish so UCLA is closer
    to only 10% White Gentile. Summarizing, UCLA students are about 40% Asian,
    15% Jewish, 10% White Gentile. The main difference from Harvard is the
    extremely high percentage of Asians and Hispanics.

    For me the biggest surprise was the rapidly rising percentage of Hispanics
    both at UCLA and at UC Irvine.

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    • Replies: @fred c dobbs
    ".....For me the biggest surprise was the rapidly rising percentage of Hispanics
    both at UCLA and at UC Irvine."

    Yeah..that's where I'm kinda skeptical. There were a few Hispanics from my high school who also went to UCSB, and they deserved admittance as much (or as little) as I did. But that pool wasn't very deep.
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  61. @Seamus Padraig
    OT

    BREAKING: Another false-flag in Syria? Just a week after Trump tells us he wants to pull out? Who woulda thunk it!

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/new-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-being-reported-by-all-the-usual-suspects-bb52e9a4f982

    It’s amazing how Putin and Assad just get the blood lust and decide to use chemical weapons (In Assad’s case, weapons the US government and UN accepted were totally destroyed) to recklessly kill civilians for no gain, the very kinds of acts that they know are considered causus belli just at the right times to derail their progress and threaten war with an enemy they can’t defeat.

    I can’t think of any other explanation. I mean, when did the neocons calmly and without guilt try to use the media to push faulty narratives to get the US military to destroy countries on Israel’s hitlist?

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  62. @M_Young
    Being a 'JuCo' transfer graduate of a UC(SB) college myself, I know it is in a sense a 'backdoor', but hardly unknown to regular old white folks.

    UCSB had a special program for us community college transfers, indeed a dorm for us. As far as I can tell, most of us thrived.

    I would say that most of us...took three years to graduate upon transfer.

    Now, the habit of sending kids off to someplace to study at Community College, which was evident even in my early to mid 1990s era (((Westside))) LA kids studying at SBCC., is ridiculous (maybe deadly!) But JCs offer a good alternative to the current grind.

    Now, the habit of sending kids off to someplace to study at Community College, which was evident even in my early to mid 1990s era (((Westside))) LA kids studying at SBCC., is ridiculous (maybe deadly!) But JCs offer a good alternative to the current grind.

    Going out of state to study at a CC is a real thing now. I worked at a CC for a few years recently. From what I gathered, the kids doing this were evenly split between kids in California who faced crowded CCs or long commutes and those from the hinterlands of America.

    Going back to school at a CC to stop the clock on student loan payments was also a thing.

    One point against CCs: The one I worked at had a few white misfits who seemed to be protected like a couple of our recent school shooters. I’m not sure if they were protected by policy or law, but they didn’t belong at school.

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    • Replies: @yourbunnywrote
    CC's especially those in more remote locations tend to attract a certain number of what were once known as Remittance Men. The one I attended in Southeastern Arizona always had a couple of these characters. Some were potentially dangerous and all were slightly deranged, one was on his fourth year at the school.
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  63. Back when The Atlantic was better, Caitlin Flanagan had a great piece about the travails of young women at college (a review of the book College Girls: Bluestockings, Sex Kittens, and Coeds, Then and Now):

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/04/the-age-of-innocence/305686/

    As for what they ate—just about anything that wasn’t nailed down, apparently. One cannot read this book and continue to believe that the “disordered eating” that besets so many college women is a recent phenomenon. Today it may be marked by grimly endured starvation campaigns or bulimia, but in decades past it was the stuff of a strange glee: festive communal gorging. The midnight suppers or “spreads,” once a major pleasure of college girls’ lives, were conducted around a chafing dish—by the 1890s, it was a popular gift for a college-bound girl—in which the hostess cooked rarebits, omelets, and (most popular of all) pan after pan of fudge. By the early 20th century, groups of female eaters commonly gave themselves nicknames: the Stuffers, the Nine Nimble Nibblers, the Grid L. Kakes. While college men during the same period were forging friendships through cane rushes, fraternity hazing, and other acts of ritualized violence, the girls ate—and ate—their way to community and affection.

    The other thing that the girls tended to do was to fall head over heels in love with one another. The 1907 Barnard yearbook observed that crushes were “an epidemic peculiar to college girls,” marked by “a lump in the throat, a feeling of heat in the face and an inability to speak.” While romantic friendships between women were an accepted aspect of life in the 19th century, Peril’s reporting on the nature of those relationships is eye-opening. An 1898 advice book called What a Young Woman Ought to Know describes the irritating behavior of girls who imposed their ardor on the world:

    They go about with their arms around each other, they loll against each other, and sit with clasped hands by the hour. They fondle and kiss until beholders are fairly nauseated.

    In 1928, one besotted “smasher” at a Texas college formalized her feelings in a yearbook entry: “Roommate, darling, how I love you.”

    The tendency of these crushes to tip over into actual lesbianism terrified and disgusted parents (as well as college administrators, who were ever on the watch for an “exaggerated athletic bent” or “over-boisterousness”) even more than coitus, and may have played a small role in the gradual movement toward coeducation, a phenomenon that skyrocketed in the 1920s, when the population of American undergraduates swelled. Once coeducation became the norm, the goal of a woman’s college years shifted from preparing to become a wife to catching an actual husband, which in turn launched the thousands of proms, formals, and education-ending proposals that gave coeds a reputation (often well-deserved) of being less intellectually serious than college men.

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Just think, these are the women who went to college in the 1890s, meaning that they belonged to the upper crust or were on their way there. So these are the women who became the ancestors of the politicians, business leaders, and high society types of the 20th century.

    Which kind of explains a lot.
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  64. @Anon
    Off topic, but has this article or one like it ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-politicization-of-the-mcat/article/2012198 ), about the MCAT being revamped in 2015 to include questions of political orthodoxy, come to your attention yet?

    One MCAT practice question (from a collaboration between the AAMC and online-education nonprofit Khan Academy), for example, asks whether the wage gap between men and women is the result of bigotry, sexism, racism, or biological differences (no other options are provided, and the "correct" answer is sexism). Another asks whether the "lack of minorities such as African Americans or Latinos/Latinas among university faculty members" is due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias (the correct answer is institutional racism).
     

    In response to questions about these developments and their effects, the AAMC's executive vice president, Dr. Atul Grover, referred to a set of core principles guiding the organization's recent work. An AAMC report outlining those principles describes the organization as "a powerful voice for compassion, equity, and justice" on behalf of the nation's academic medical institutions, and stresses the importance of "advancing a well-trained, culturally competent, and diverse health and biomedical workforce." Grover further explained that the revised MCAT "tests students on the knowledge and skills that future physicians need to practice in a changing health care system and serve a changing patient population" and establishes a foundation for learning "about the socio-cultural and behavioral determinants of health."
     
    Was optimism that the GRE can't fall because it's too important to graduate schools premature? Is this article a subtle hoax?

    6 Anon[212] > One MCAT practice question

    for a few months, __We are in America__ (the Hebrew-language magazine of Los Angeles) had ads for a medical school in Belarus, whose graduates are allowed to sit for MD licensure exams in USA.

    US citizenship is required of students

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  65. @M_Young
    OT.. Google celebrates Maria Felix!
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Mar%C3%ADa+F%C3%A9lix&oi=ddle&ct=maria-felixs-104th-birthday-5182247790444544&hl=en&kgmid=/m/0d5z3&source=doodle-ntp

    Never heard of Maria Felix. Should I care?

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  66. @Intelligent Dasein
    Community colleges are an even bigger ripoff than the state schools, and I say that as someone who actually liked it there.

    There is a gigantic CC just down the road from me. It seems I've had a relationship with this place for most of my life. I took Taekwon-Do classes there as kid; I frequently check out books from the library; and I've enrolled there several times throughout my life. I did some of my high school credits there as well as some of my college.

    It is an immense concrete structure built in what I like to call the American Brezhnev style, with corridors that seem to stretch on for miles. And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place. They have a first-rate nursing program there as well as some vo-tech. When I think of the generations of students that have passed through it---ordinary people working out their simple destinies, getting jobs, making families---it reminds me of a saner time in America when ordinary life didn't have to be so bad.

    I miss that time the same way I miss arcade games and girls in jean jackets with notebooks clutched to their chests, filled with copious notes in their long, florid hand. I miss it the way I miss walking into a bowling alley on hot July afternoon and being hit with smell of stale cigarette smoke and air conditioning.

    I feel the ghosts of those things at the college, but I do not care for the reality of it now. It is ridiculously expensive to go there. The place thrives off the gravy train of endless student loans doled out to hopelessly naive aspirants who will never make good on them. And although I met some fine teachers there, I still think they ought to be ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges.

    20 Intelligent Dasein > ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges

    most of post- hunter/gatherer economy is parasitic

    all of religion is parasitic

    Look…. did Mrs iSteve ACTUALLY NEED a new kitchen? Was the family dying from lack of world’s-most-quiet dishwasher?

    what is YOUR occupation, Mr Dasein?

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  67. Pasadena City College, where my dad went, has a nice campus, a couple of blocks from Caltech.

    My father was in his first year at his local junior college in the San Joaquin Valley, but then somebody attacked Pearl Harbor. He joined the Navy and they sent him to Cornell and the University of Texas for free.

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  68. I spent two years in community college before transferring to state u. One of the bigger regrets of my life in a rather long list.

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  69. @Intelligent Dasein
    Community colleges are an even bigger ripoff than the state schools, and I say that as someone who actually liked it there.

    There is a gigantic CC just down the road from me. It seems I've had a relationship with this place for most of my life. I took Taekwon-Do classes there as kid; I frequently check out books from the library; and I've enrolled there several times throughout my life. I did some of my high school credits there as well as some of my college.

    It is an immense concrete structure built in what I like to call the American Brezhnev style, with corridors that seem to stretch on for miles. And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place. They have a first-rate nursing program there as well as some vo-tech. When I think of the generations of students that have passed through it---ordinary people working out their simple destinies, getting jobs, making families---it reminds me of a saner time in America when ordinary life didn't have to be so bad.

    I miss that time the same way I miss arcade games and girls in jean jackets with notebooks clutched to their chests, filled with copious notes in their long, florid hand. I miss it the way I miss walking into a bowling alley on hot July afternoon and being hit with smell of stale cigarette smoke and air conditioning.

    I feel the ghosts of those things at the college, but I do not care for the reality of it now. It is ridiculously expensive to go there. The place thrives off the gravy train of endless student loans doled out to hopelessly naive aspirants who will never make good on them. And although I met some fine teachers there, I still think they ought to be ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges.

    “And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place”.

    If that’s your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    If that’s your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.
     
    Do you really have nothing better to do than express an unsolicited opinion on my literary preferences? Honestly, why would you even write something like that? What purpose does it serve?

    I any case, you would lose that bet. I certainly prefer Waugh to Greene, although I'm not greatly enamored with either one of them. I think that Waugh's stories have a great deal of potential, but he doesn't get the best out of them. Now that you mention it, when you through in Orwell, Galsworthy, Milne, Wodehouse, etc., there is quite a long list of English authors from that time period who, while much beloved or their whimsies, are seriously overrated in terms of their artistry.
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  70. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    On the other hand, the problem with going to an elite college is you end up spending your time with soft-headed elitists and not learning how to actually do anything.
    .

    -This message brought to you by the Department of Overgeneralization-

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  71. Glendale is, of course, the initial inspiration for the brilliant sitcom Community. I still wonder from time to time if Mister Sailer was somehow in Dan Harmon’s Spanish class …

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  72. Anon[327] • Disclaimer says:

    I went to a community college for 2 semesters right after I got out of the service because I had my eye on graduate school and didn’t want to waste my GI bill semesters on stupid pre-reqs I could get for cheap elsewhere. Amusingly, blue states offer much more lavish educational benefits at the community college level to vets then red states do, in my experience. I suppose because there are fewer of them per capita in blue states.

    The sexual market place there was interesting. This was in Washington State, and straight white men were virtually non-existent on campus. The populations in decreasing size were probably south-east asian girls, then hispanic girls, east-asian girls, black girls, hispanic men, ‘other’, black men (almost all immigrants, rarely what multi-generational African Americans), gay white men, straight white men. As you might expect, straight white men had a tremendous scarcity value and it was extremely easy to pick up women. However, there were a few catches:

    The girls were difficult to isolate for sex because their families were nearby and kept pretty close tabs on them. Girls generally lived at home, or in a few cases I ran into, with other sisters who would rat them out to Ma and Pa.

    Girls were extremely forward to any relatively healthy looking white man: I was accosted by 3 girls in the first semester without even approaching them. This was notable because they were extremely attractive, probably 8s and 9s. I’m about a 6 in the total population of white men. Obviously I got while the getting was good and dated them all. Which leads to the final point:

    Everyone knows the relationship status/exploits of the few white men on campus. Once you laid a few babes, a tally that would just be scoffed at in any sort of SEC frat, everyone just knew. It’s not that the opportunities dried up necessarily, but everyone treated you and perceived you differently. Not worse, just differently.

    Overall it was a really interesting environment to experience as a single white guy. I’m sure that the girls there ended up considerably less penetrated then their same-age peers at larger universities, since there just weren’t nearly enough roosters for all the hens, and getting a girl to bed was generally a lot more logistical legwork since you were getting double or triple team interference from parents and siblings.

    So if a young guy is looking to punch above his weight class in the task of locking down a wife (probably the most important single task you’ll have in life) then he can do much worse than going to a community college for a couple years. I have no doubt in my mind it will bring more substantial benefits than going to anything other than a top 10 school, and most of us are not intellectually equipped for that anyway.

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  73. @Lot
    I further endorse it, possibly the best investigative journalism of the 2000s.

    Somewhat similar is "Nickled and Dimed." Comfy second and third gen white collar people should know more about how the society we create screws the rest of the population in a million little ways.

    Somewhat similar is “Nickled and Dimed.” Comfy second and third gen white collar people should know more about how the society we create screws the rest of the population in a million little ways.

    What do you think about “Nickel and Dimed”?

    I recently read the book and thought it was absolutely amazing. Some of the best investigative journalism I’ve seen. I thought the second part of the book (in which she works as a house cleaner) was particularly good and addresses lots of important issues.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    I had the same thoughts as yours.

    It is depressing not just because of what it reports, but also because it is a reminder that mass immigration now means we can't have a party looking out for the WWC, instead leaving us with one for middle american economic elites and another for minorities and coastal elites. Even if Trump had kept the promises Bannon got him to make, the GOP would still be the free trading elitist party of Paul Ryan in Congress and the courts. And I am pessimistic there is any solution for it. I am stuck with the GOP that is owned by the Koch brothers since it is still better than the 2018 Democrats.

    I miss the Democratic Party of the middle 20th century.
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  74. Lot says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Somewhat similar is “Nickled and Dimed.” Comfy second and third gen white collar people should know more about how the society we create screws the rest of the population in a million little ways.
     
    What do you think about "Nickel and Dimed"?

    I recently read the book and thought it was absolutely amazing. Some of the best investigative journalism I've seen. I thought the second part of the book (in which she works as a house cleaner) was particularly good and addresses lots of important issues.

    I had the same thoughts as yours.

    It is depressing not just because of what it reports, but also because it is a reminder that mass immigration now means we can’t have a party looking out for the WWC, instead leaving us with one for middle american economic elites and another for minorities and coastal elites. Even if Trump had kept the promises Bannon got him to make, the GOP would still be the free trading elitist party of Paul Ryan in Congress and the courts. And I am pessimistic there is any solution for it. I am stuck with the GOP that is owned by the Koch brothers since it is still better than the 2018 Democrats.

    I miss the Democratic Party of the middle 20th century.

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    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
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  75. Lot says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    Community colleges are an even bigger ripoff than the state schools, and I say that as someone who actually liked it there.

    There is a gigantic CC just down the road from me. It seems I've had a relationship with this place for most of my life. I took Taekwon-Do classes there as kid; I frequently check out books from the library; and I've enrolled there several times throughout my life. I did some of my high school credits there as well as some of my college.

    It is an immense concrete structure built in what I like to call the American Brezhnev style, with corridors that seem to stretch on for miles. And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place. They have a first-rate nursing program there as well as some vo-tech. When I think of the generations of students that have passed through it---ordinary people working out their simple destinies, getting jobs, making families---it reminds me of a saner time in America when ordinary life didn't have to be so bad.

    I miss that time the same way I miss arcade games and girls in jean jackets with notebooks clutched to their chests, filled with copious notes in their long, florid hand. I miss it the way I miss walking into a bowling alley on hot July afternoon and being hit with smell of stale cigarette smoke and air conditioning.

    I feel the ghosts of those things at the college, but I do not care for the reality of it now. It is ridiculously expensive to go there. The place thrives off the gravy train of endless student loans doled out to hopelessly naive aspirants who will never make good on them. And although I met some fine teachers there, I still think they ought to be ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges.

    Brutalist architecture just looks like it is cheap to build and maintain. It is actually expensive to build and very expensive to maintain.

    Boston’s hideous City Hall, possibly the ugliest building I have ever seen in person, is a maintenance nightmare that probably won’t last more than 80 years. (The other candidate for ugliest building is the Los Angeles CalTrans building.)

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Oh, the college isn't at all brutalist. It's just very, very large. It has about the same feel and dimensions as a major airport concourse, i.e. fairly utilitarian but not devoid of human warmth.
    , @fred c dobbs
    as luck would have it I was watching bits of an old Huell Howser a week or so ago; the topic: CalTrans District 7 HQ @ 100 Main, Los Angle-eese, as Mayor Yorty used to say.

    It's a mess. Ideally architecture should engender some emotional response, whether power, beauty, or what-have-you. The CalTrans building evokes a response of......WTH is that? Looks like one of those high-sided ocean-going barges was somehow docked there. Huell oooh-ed and ahhh-ed at the light show, but then Huell was easily amused. LOL LOL...=)

    given the documented number of CalTrans engineers w nothing to do, i am sure it has plenty of rubber rooms, NY Public School style....LOL

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  76. @ScarletNumber
    I had never heard of I am Charlotte Simmons but upon the summary in Wikipedia, it lines up with my reasons of co-ed disillusionment at college. Now that the female:male ratio is increasing, it only exacerbates the problem. Add into that co-eds generally have an inflated view of their value in the sexual marketplace. Note, none of this new; Roissy talked about it for years.

    BTW, you had mentioned a book club. I am still interested in joining.

    Will be glad to revisit the Tom Wolfe oeuvre as part of any “Noticing through Literature” Book Club our genial host decides to share.

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  77. My son, now in grad school, disagrees. Going to some sort of cheap college to earn credits, and then switching to a major university you could have gotten into in the first place, is absolutely a trend. The parents and the kids look at the numbers, and you just can’t ignore it, unless you’re loaded. He could name a half-dozen kids he knew right off the top of his head.

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  78. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    This isn’t a problem if your Armenian daughter’s social life is attending Armenian weddings, hanging out with Armenian friends through whom she meets Armenian men to date.

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  79. @Old Palo Altan
    "And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place".

    If that's your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.

    If that’s your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.

    Do you really have nothing better to do than express an unsolicited opinion on my literary preferences? Honestly, why would you even write something like that? What purpose does it serve?

    I any case, you would lose that bet. I certainly prefer Waugh to Greene, although I’m not greatly enamored with either one of them. I think that Waugh’s stories have a great deal of potential, but he doesn’t get the best out of them. Now that you mention it, when you through in Orwell, Galsworthy, Milne, Wodehouse, etc., there is quite a long list of English authors from that time period who, while much beloved or their whimsies, are seriously overrated in terms of their artistry.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Most British authors are depressing to read. Must be the lack of sunshine in their country.

    After I read Brideshead Revisited I wanted to kill myself. I could barely finish Brighton Rock because all the characters were so dismal.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    Everything on this site is unsolicited. If that's your worry, then what in heaven's name are you doing here yourself?

    Nobody who has a serious interest and, more importantly, understanding of English literature would ever name Galsworthy and Milne in ths same breath as Orwell and Wodehouse.

    Waugh's aesthetic is the beauty of order; Greene's the fascination of filth, moral and physical. That you didn't immediately see my point (which was meant in a perfectly friendly and inquiring way) shows that you have neither read much of the work of either, nor understood anything of what you did read.

    As for Waugh not getting the best out of his "stories" ... well, words fail.

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  80. @Lot
    Brutalist architecture just looks like it is cheap to build and maintain. It is actually expensive to build and very expensive to maintain.

    Boston's hideous City Hall, possibly the ugliest building I have ever seen in person, is a maintenance nightmare that probably won't last more than 80 years. (The other candidate for ugliest building is the Los Angeles CalTrans building.)

    Oh, the college isn’t at all brutalist. It’s just very, very large. It has about the same feel and dimensions as a major airport concourse, i.e. fairly utilitarian but not devoid of human warmth.

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  81. You boobs aren’t getting it.

    “A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances.”

    Winner = money. I’ve never said or implied that. But you did.

    “I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income.”

    Winner = money. I’ve never said or implied that. But you did.

    “I’ve yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror.”

    My self esteem doesn’t depend on going to college. My social and cultural comfort does-as does the social and cultural comfort of virtually all college graduates, and virtually every commenter on this board.

    The cultural, social, and intellectual difference between most blue collar folks (even those that make lots of money, for those of you who are counting), and most white collar folks, is irrefutable, and a virtual permanent part of our popular culture. That difference existed, in most people, in high school, and it exists once they finish high school and move on to either college or tradework. That cultural and educational divide was probably formed by the age of 10, and was reinforced by high school class choices, and then career choice. If they move on to the army, the same divide will exist-officers will hang out with officers, and enlisted will hang out with enlisted-even if they like and respect each other. Lawyers hang out with lawyers-whether they admire or disdain the HVAC guy that fixes their air conditioner. Engineers hang out with engineers. Electricians hang out with electricians. And so on. In my neighborhood, there are lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. In my electricians neighborhood, there aren’t. I spend time with lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. My electrician doesn’t.

    This is an utterly bizarre argument to be having on a site which is devoted to the idea that humans have different intellectual capacities, that those capacities are innate, and that they have tangible and clear cultural and social implications. On this site, we talk about them all the time. We talk about school safety, educational effectiveness, cultural and intellectual decline, crime, dysfunctional behavior, and so on. Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers is literally denying the validity of this whole site.

    Its an utterly bizarre argument to be having in a blog conversation devoted to discussing what greater competition has done to university slots in California: if the cultural differences that I am asserting between community college and university didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be a difference between community college and university (it wouldn’t be the subject of an article in the New York Times), and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation!

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we’re talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.

    joe

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    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over "professionals" any day of the week. Most "professionals" don't have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.
    , @anonymous

    Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers
     
    You're right, despite the confusion introduced by the 'who makes how much money' argument. The blue collar types have totally different conversations from the white collars even if the former are sharp and the latter rather mediocre. The interests of the two are different and the former don't abstract much, making for some boring chit-chat.
    , @Anonymous
    Your "clarification" that you justify paying the gilded university bill, with blackletter Latin mottoes and decorative etched vignettes, chiefly as a desperate attempt at keeping-up-with-the-Jonesforths only makes you sound more, not less pitiful.
    , @ScarletNumber

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we’re talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.
     
    That's because the majority of people on this board voted for Trump. Trump would not have won but for dumb white people. So the posters have a dilemma. They don't want to insult the Trump voter, yet they know that his supporters are dumb. So they ascribe other positive attributes to them they would never ascribe to a black Obama or Hillary voter, even though they are equally dumb.
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  82. @AnonAnon
    Living in SoCal and having just gone through the college application process, I can tell you that most of the really bright white kids in California do try to get into the good UCs/Cal Poly. But honestly, if you are white, you’d better have a 4.7+ GPA (that means all honors and double-digit numbers of the hardest AP classes/dual enrollment), at least a 34 ACT score, and be a four-year athlete to have a decent chance of getting into UCLA/Berkeley. At my kid’s US News Silver-ranked high school, that was the top 5%. (Parkland High School ‘survivor’ David Hogg’s whining about not getting into UCSB with a 4.2 and 1270 SAT was hilarious. He had no shot with those stats, even paying the OOS UC rate of $61K. I’m shocked he even got into Cal Poly but I wonder if some SJW type in admissions let him in after he got famous.) Kids who leave the state usually can’t get into UCSB (let alone Berkeley or UCLA) or Cal Poly for engineering but will get into Purdue and pay through the nose for it. ( [White male] kids with 4.6 GPAs who don’t get into UCSB is common.) Wealthy white kids aim for USC but it’s as hard to get into as UCLA. Many other state’s public universities offer automatic merit scholarships for bright California kids that make it attractive to look outside the state and bring the cost down close to a UC and sometimes a Cal State.

    You also forget that most of the top UCs are heavily Asian and that is another reason white kids often look outside the state for college. Additionally, not every kids enjoys the uber-liberal atmosphere (not to mention incredibly cutthroat student body) of Berkeley, no matter how prestigious it it. UCSB is the whitest of the UCs, at around something like 34%. From eye-balling it at open house, UCI is probably around 10% European white.

    You also have to take into account that the UCs/Cal Poly are heavily impacted, meaning that it’s very tough to change your major and/or graduate in four years. When you do the math, attending “roomier” Purdue, UVA, or CU Boulder with a bit of merit aid and getting out in four years is likely a push money-wise.

    I’ve also heard from other parents the community colleges are as impacted as the UCs/Cal States and take three years to get through, so you’re looking at 5-6 years to get a bachelors. You also need a near perfect GPA to transfer to the top UCs/Cal Poly. If you haunt College Confidential and reddit r/ApplyingToCollege forums you’ll see the stats of kids who got turned down for the UCs. The competition is brutal. UCLA and UCI got over 100,000 applications. Cal Poly got 65,000 this year, 12,000 more than last year. Competition for college in this state is insanely hard.

    UCSB and USC used to be known as party schools for wealthy White SoCal kids.

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  83. @Ali Choudhury
    Another alternative may be convincing colleges to offer three year degrees. UK universities all offer three year bachelor's degrees and now there is talk of having them offer two year degrees by teaching through the summer term too.

    Ali, My youngest daughter graduated from a Jesuit College with a four year degree in Accounting. She didn’t choose her Major until her sophomore year, interned for her present employer as a first semester senior and was hired full time in her second semester. By my count she could have done all of this in three years.

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  84. @joeyjoejoe
    "Blue collar union guys in areas where they make real money often marry up,especially if they can retire with 20 in and do college and grad or professional education for a second career: fire, police, etc. A prominent local female surgeon married a BNSF road foreman recently. She makes more than twice what he does, but he’ll retire with two fat pensions. Her dad gave them a pair of best grade Holland and Holland 12 bore guns as a wedding present, a six figure buy."

    Right. But the exception proves the rule. I'm in the doctor community. Doctors often marry doctors (or lawyers, or other professionals whom they met in college). Doctors also marry nurses (though less than you would think. Doctors marrying doctors seems to be far more common). Electricians marry secretaries (if they bother to marry at all). The class sorting system that is our society, which is widely commented upon, and widely noticed, is real. Marrying up seems to be mostly restricted to 1) men marrying female doctors, who 2) met their spouses before they were doctors.

    "Ladies and gentlemen, I think we’ve spotted an elitist."

    You're commenting on a site devoted to the social implications of IQ differences and HBD, and you've only now noticed elitests? Its nice to see you finally catching on...

    joe

    Doctors, like lawyers, have their own deficiencies.

    Morally, I’d tend to put doctors on a higher plane. However, just as lawyers are generally people who work with words yet cannot write anything compelling to those outside their profession, doctors are tradesmen of the flesh who have a hard time venturing beyond their professional vista.

    It would be for the better if more doctors married outside their profession. This class sorting is a bad thing in a cohesive population, and wise men have tried to mitigate the tendency for thousands of years. The best way to improve a people is to improve the mean, which is not accomplished by rigid class hierarchies (e.g. India).

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    When I was a kid, all the doctors I knew had mother-homemaker wives and many had sizable families. We heard there were bachelor doctors that played the field, two doctor families and even one that was rumored to go the other way, but those were rarities.
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  85. Abe says: • Website

    I’m looking down the barrel of this particular gun lately, as I have a 10 year old whom I have gotten way behind on his college fund for. We got a birth year facts poster for him when he was born which, among other things, had such fun trivia as who won the Super Bowl that year, and not such fun trivia as what 4 years at a private university would cost when he was ready to enroll. I thought it was hyperbole then, but in fact it looks very much like the 300K it forecast back then will turn out to be the case, if in fact not a lowball figure. I talked with a friend the other day and she shocked me with the cost of a UC education- $120K + and that is for in-state. What is a dad to do? The woke side of me hates forking out such a colossal sum of money to fund Ta Genius Coates speaking fees and lesbian college administrators’ pension funds. The normie side of me, however, does not want to shortchange my kid- yeah, he might have as good of a life becoming an electrician, but if that life entails striving to put HIS kids through college so that the family can rise above its blue-collar ‘roots’, then I simply become the crank ancestor who devolved his family below their natural station because of his weird obsessions with ‘Deep State’ this, ‘microaggressions’ that. Then again, that 300K could almost buy a new house and so set him up for middle-class life from the get-go…

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  86. @joeyjoejoe
    You boobs aren't getting it.

    "A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I’ve yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror."

    My self esteem doesn't depend on going to college. My social and cultural comfort does-as does the social and cultural comfort of virtually all college graduates, and virtually every commenter on this board.

    The cultural, social, and intellectual difference between most blue collar folks (even those that make lots of money, for those of you who are counting), and most white collar folks, is irrefutable, and a virtual permanent part of our popular culture. That difference existed, in most people, in high school, and it exists once they finish high school and move on to either college or tradework. That cultural and educational divide was probably formed by the age of 10, and was reinforced by high school class choices, and then career choice. If they move on to the army, the same divide will exist-officers will hang out with officers, and enlisted will hang out with enlisted-even if they like and respect each other. Lawyers hang out with lawyers-whether they admire or disdain the HVAC guy that fixes their air conditioner. Engineers hang out with engineers. Electricians hang out with electricians. And so on. In my neighborhood, there are lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. In my electricians neighborhood, there aren't. I spend time with lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. My electrician doesn't.


    This is an utterly bizarre argument to be having on a site which is devoted to the idea that humans have different intellectual capacities, that those capacities are innate, and that they have tangible and clear cultural and social implications. On this site, we talk about them all the time. We talk about school safety, educational effectiveness, cultural and intellectual decline, crime, dysfunctional behavior, and so on. Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers is literally denying the validity of this whole site.

    Its an utterly bizarre argument to be having in a blog conversation devoted to discussing what greater competition has done to university slots in California: if the cultural differences that I am asserting between community college and university didn't exist, there wouldn't be a difference between community college and university (it wouldn't be the subject of an article in the New York Times), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation!

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we're talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.

    joe

    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over “professionals” any day of the week. Most “professionals” don’t have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over “professionals” any day of the week. Most “professionals” don’t have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.
     
    We discussed this the other day in "Bright Flight at Harvard". Talking to most blue-collar white people is like talking to the wall.
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  87. Our local community college gives any student who graduates from a public or private high school in the county or who is home schooled in the county a full 60 credit scholarship, if they have a 2.5 high school GPA. The scholarship is good for academic or technical track classes.
    The local Rotary Club in partnership with some other entities provides the money for the scholarship.

    Students have to sign up before October of their Freshman year in high school. Getting general education classes like Eng 101 out of the way in a 30 person local class as opposed to a 150 student University class just makes sense.

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  88. @Benjaminl
    Back when The Atlantic was better, Caitlin Flanagan had a great piece about the travails of young women at college (a review of the book College Girls: Bluestockings, Sex Kittens, and Coeds, Then and Now):

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/04/the-age-of-innocence/305686/

    As for what they ate—just about anything that wasn’t nailed down, apparently. One cannot read this book and continue to believe that the “disordered eating” that besets so many college women is a recent phenomenon. Today it may be marked by grimly endured starvation campaigns or bulimia, but in decades past it was the stuff of a strange glee: festive communal gorging. The midnight suppers or “spreads,” once a major pleasure of college girls’ lives, were conducted around a chafing dish—by the 1890s, it was a popular gift for a college-bound girl—in which the hostess cooked rarebits, omelets, and (most popular of all) pan after pan of fudge. By the early 20th century, groups of female eaters commonly gave themselves nicknames: the Stuffers, the Nine Nimble Nibblers, the Grid L. Kakes. While college men during the same period were forging friendships through cane rushes, fraternity hazing, and other acts of ritualized violence, the girls ate—and ate—their way to community and affection.

    The other thing that the girls tended to do was to fall head over heels in love with one another. The 1907 Barnard yearbook observed that crushes were “an epidemic peculiar to college girls,” marked by “a lump in the throat, a feeling of heat in the face and an inability to speak.” While romantic friendships between women were an accepted aspect of life in the 19th century, Peril’s reporting on the nature of those relationships is eye-opening. An 1898 advice book called What a Young Woman Ought to Know describes the irritating behavior of girls who imposed their ardor on the world:

    They go about with their arms around each other, they loll against each other, and sit with clasped hands by the hour. They fondle and kiss until beholders are fairly nauseated.

    In 1928, one besotted “smasher” at a Texas college formalized her feelings in a yearbook entry: “Roommate, darling, how I love you.”

    The tendency of these crushes to tip over into actual lesbianism terrified and disgusted parents (as well as college administrators, who were ever on the watch for an “exaggerated athletic bent” or “over-boisterousness”) even more than coitus, and may have played a small role in the gradual movement toward coeducation, a phenomenon that skyrocketed in the 1920s, when the population of American undergraduates swelled. Once coeducation became the norm, the goal of a woman’s college years shifted from preparing to become a wife to catching an actual husband, which in turn launched the thousands of proms, formals, and education-ending proposals that gave coeds a reputation (often well-deserved) of being less intellectually serious than college men.
     

    Just think, these are the women who went to college in the 1890s, meaning that they belonged to the upper crust or were on their way there. So these are the women who became the ancestors of the politicians, business leaders, and high society types of the 20th century.

    Which kind of explains a lot.

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  89. anonymous[222] • Disclaimer says:
    @joeyjoejoe
    You boobs aren't getting it.

    "A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I’ve yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror."

    My self esteem doesn't depend on going to college. My social and cultural comfort does-as does the social and cultural comfort of virtually all college graduates, and virtually every commenter on this board.

    The cultural, social, and intellectual difference between most blue collar folks (even those that make lots of money, for those of you who are counting), and most white collar folks, is irrefutable, and a virtual permanent part of our popular culture. That difference existed, in most people, in high school, and it exists once they finish high school and move on to either college or tradework. That cultural and educational divide was probably formed by the age of 10, and was reinforced by high school class choices, and then career choice. If they move on to the army, the same divide will exist-officers will hang out with officers, and enlisted will hang out with enlisted-even if they like and respect each other. Lawyers hang out with lawyers-whether they admire or disdain the HVAC guy that fixes their air conditioner. Engineers hang out with engineers. Electricians hang out with electricians. And so on. In my neighborhood, there are lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. In my electricians neighborhood, there aren't. I spend time with lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. My electrician doesn't.


    This is an utterly bizarre argument to be having on a site which is devoted to the idea that humans have different intellectual capacities, that those capacities are innate, and that they have tangible and clear cultural and social implications. On this site, we talk about them all the time. We talk about school safety, educational effectiveness, cultural and intellectual decline, crime, dysfunctional behavior, and so on. Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers is literally denying the validity of this whole site.

    Its an utterly bizarre argument to be having in a blog conversation devoted to discussing what greater competition has done to university slots in California: if the cultural differences that I am asserting between community college and university didn't exist, there wouldn't be a difference between community college and university (it wouldn't be the subject of an article in the New York Times), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation!

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we're talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.

    joe

    Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers

    You’re right, despite the confusion introduced by the ‘who makes how much money’ argument. The blue collar types have totally different conversations from the white collars even if the former are sharp and the latter rather mediocre. The interests of the two are different and the former don’t abstract much, making for some boring chit-chat.

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  90. @Paul Rain
    Sending your daughter to college across the country- it's a bad decision just below, in descending order of testosterone:
    # Encouraging her to join the Marines
    # Encouraging her to join the Army
    # Encouraging her to join the Navy
    # Encouraging her to join the Air Force

    Actually, the Air Force might be a better idea than college in terms of the feet of d*ck she'll go through in a four year enlistment.

    Two types of military women: lesbians and sex tourists.

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  91. From my experience in the corporate world, most corporations are full of paper pushers, management-track bull5shitters, drama queens, incompetent affirmative action hires, and other sorts of dead weight. Only a minority of corporate “professionals” create any significant value.

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  92. Ivy says:

    University life now isn’t what many recall. As a regular visitor to various campuses around SoCal, I see and hear the differences. The toll of diversity has atomized an undergrad population that used to find some comfort in clubs, groups and Greek life. During your undergrad days, you probably had occasion to join one or more of those. Now, students are more focused on (read, terrified about) career prospects, so tend to monetize most non-studying time relative to networking or job prospects. Conviviality and community service, for example, tend to be less regarded than in prior years.

    That was driven home repeatedly by advisory and alumni interaction with top students on their way to jobs with big-name firms in the Bay Area upon graduation. They don’t care as much about each other or about their schools beyond being means to ends. Sadly, they look to instant gratification routinely and not to what their parents’ generation would have considered to be more respectful interaction with professors or even family. That does not bode well for future alumni donations.

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    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Good post.

    From my own experience, this is very true. Today's students are very socially atomized and anti-social. One reason is because they have easy access to electronic "entertainment" (tv, Netflix, Youtube, Ipod, DVDs, video games), which makes it less neccessary to go out and look for fun adventures. Another factor is that the spread of smartphones, "social media" (more like anti-social media), and texting has obviated the need to hang out with friends. Instead of seeing each other at parties or clubs/bars, students upload "selfies" on Instagram/Facebook (for which they get "likes"), Twitter out their random thoughts, and text (or perhaps "Snapchat") their buddies.

    Very recently, I visited my alma mater on a Friday evening. I walked around for about an hour. I noticed that there were only a few students on campus or near the adjacent "Greek" fraternity housing. Some of the students were quietly socializing in small groups, but there were no wild or raucous parties going on. There also was hardly any interaction between males and females. For whatever reason, social groups were mostly strictly gender-segregated. I did finally some frat guys having a moderate-sized get together at their enormous house, but their social event was pretty mellow and didn't seem to involve any females.

    I should mention that my alma mater has tens of thousands of students and is located in a large-sized city. So it's really amazing how dead the atmosphere was on a Friday evening, especially considering that the weather was decent. Classes had just begun (after the end of Spring Break), so students didn't have any tests or projects to worry about at that time.
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  93. @Anon
    If more women than men in college, why would female value be inflated there?

    Their value is self-inflated. They think because a male 7 showed them some attention once that they themselves are 7′s when they are really 4′s.

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  94. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    Community colleges are an even bigger ripoff than the state schools, and I say that as someone who actually liked it there.

    There is a gigantic CC just down the road from me. It seems I've had a relationship with this place for most of my life. I took Taekwon-Do classes there as kid; I frequently check out books from the library; and I've enrolled there several times throughout my life. I did some of my high school credits there as well as some of my college.

    It is an immense concrete structure built in what I like to call the American Brezhnev style, with corridors that seem to stretch on for miles. And I enjoy that aesthetic; I like the unpretentious, down-market feel of the place. They have a first-rate nursing program there as well as some vo-tech. When I think of the generations of students that have passed through it---ordinary people working out their simple destinies, getting jobs, making families---it reminds me of a saner time in America when ordinary life didn't have to be so bad.

    I miss that time the same way I miss arcade games and girls in jean jackets with notebooks clutched to their chests, filled with copious notes in their long, florid hand. I miss it the way I miss walking into a bowling alley on hot July afternoon and being hit with smell of stale cigarette smoke and air conditioning.

    I feel the ghosts of those things at the college, but I do not care for the reality of it now. It is ridiculously expensive to go there. The place thrives off the gravy train of endless student loans doled out to hopelessly naive aspirants who will never make good on them. And although I met some fine teachers there, I still think they ought to be ashamed of themselves for being such exploitative, parasitical sponges.

    Loans??? The place near me in N. Cal. charges ~$45 a unit for tuition and the enrolled typically live with their parents. It’s not exactly a Wall Street goldmine. Plus, getting the tuition waived is easy: they even have a separate building to sign you up for programs, Cloward-Piven style. Many white middle-class twentysomethings (usually working b.s. retail jobs but sometimes with pretty good healthcare or clerical employment) somehow manage to get the waiver. Of course military vets attend for free.

    The waste, even at a “glittery” place like Pasadena, is not remotely in the ballpark of the state uni’s. I feel this is 100% due to the lingering anti-cachet of the 1950s-ish concept of a JuCo– whereas I’ve seen public high schools in Redondo Beach or Concord that were Byzantine summer palaces by comparison. The CC faculty salaries, published on TransparentCalifornia.com, aren’t that great considering the local cost of living; I know of tenured faculty driving in from 40+ mi. away. There are still useless diversity counselors but these have less power because it’s a commuter campus. Deans don’t investigate your personal life, in fact, nobody in the student population is really aware of the brass on a day-to-day basis. The local tantrum-throwers had trouble recruiting enough idlers to protest the Stephon Clark shooting recently.

    The only “rip-off” about community college is that an associate’s degree means nothing except as the first half of a bachelor’s degree, which also now means nothing.

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  95. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:
    @joeyjoejoe
    You boobs aren't getting it.

    "A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I’ve yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror."

    My self esteem doesn't depend on going to college. My social and cultural comfort does-as does the social and cultural comfort of virtually all college graduates, and virtually every commenter on this board.

    The cultural, social, and intellectual difference between most blue collar folks (even those that make lots of money, for those of you who are counting), and most white collar folks, is irrefutable, and a virtual permanent part of our popular culture. That difference existed, in most people, in high school, and it exists once they finish high school and move on to either college or tradework. That cultural and educational divide was probably formed by the age of 10, and was reinforced by high school class choices, and then career choice. If they move on to the army, the same divide will exist-officers will hang out with officers, and enlisted will hang out with enlisted-even if they like and respect each other. Lawyers hang out with lawyers-whether they admire or disdain the HVAC guy that fixes their air conditioner. Engineers hang out with engineers. Electricians hang out with electricians. And so on. In my neighborhood, there are lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. In my electricians neighborhood, there aren't. I spend time with lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. My electrician doesn't.


    This is an utterly bizarre argument to be having on a site which is devoted to the idea that humans have different intellectual capacities, that those capacities are innate, and that they have tangible and clear cultural and social implications. On this site, we talk about them all the time. We talk about school safety, educational effectiveness, cultural and intellectual decline, crime, dysfunctional behavior, and so on. Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers is literally denying the validity of this whole site.

    Its an utterly bizarre argument to be having in a blog conversation devoted to discussing what greater competition has done to university slots in California: if the cultural differences that I am asserting between community college and university didn't exist, there wouldn't be a difference between community college and university (it wouldn't be the subject of an article in the New York Times), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation!

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we're talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.

    joe

    Your “clarification” that you justify paying the gilded university bill, with blackletter Latin mottoes and decorative etched vignettes, chiefly as a desperate attempt at keeping-up-with-the-Jonesforths only makes you sound more, not less pitiful.

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  96. @White Guy In Japan
    I attended a community college for two years and then transferred to Cal State. I was paying for my own education, so I had to consider money.

    I have a better idea! Be old. LOL

    I’m about Sailer’s age. Tuition in late 70s at UCSB was under $1000 per year. Yes, a better deal could have been had at Ventura Junior College, and I did take a few classes there during a couple summers, but even in late 1970s’ dollars the difference wasn’t THAT much…

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  97. @Lot
    Brutalist architecture just looks like it is cheap to build and maintain. It is actually expensive to build and very expensive to maintain.

    Boston's hideous City Hall, possibly the ugliest building I have ever seen in person, is a maintenance nightmare that probably won't last more than 80 years. (The other candidate for ugliest building is the Los Angeles CalTrans building.)

    as luck would have it I was watching bits of an old Huell Howser a week or so ago; the topic: CalTrans District 7 HQ @ 100 Main, Los Angle-eese, as Mayor Yorty used to say.

    It’s a mess. Ideally architecture should engender some emotional response, whether power, beauty, or what-have-you. The CalTrans building evokes a response of……WTH is that? Looks like one of those high-sided ocean-going barges was somehow docked there. Huell oooh-ed and ahhh-ed at the light show, but then Huell was easily amused. LOL LOL…=)

    given the documented number of CalTrans engineers w nothing to do, i am sure it has plenty of rubber rooms, NY Public School style….LOL

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The CalTrans building in downtown LA radiates hatred of humanity.
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  98. @fred c dobbs
    as luck would have it I was watching bits of an old Huell Howser a week or so ago; the topic: CalTrans District 7 HQ @ 100 Main, Los Angle-eese, as Mayor Yorty used to say.

    It's a mess. Ideally architecture should engender some emotional response, whether power, beauty, or what-have-you. The CalTrans building evokes a response of......WTH is that? Looks like one of those high-sided ocean-going barges was somehow docked there. Huell oooh-ed and ahhh-ed at the light show, but then Huell was easily amused. LOL LOL...=)

    given the documented number of CalTrans engineers w nothing to do, i am sure it has plenty of rubber rooms, NY Public School style....LOL

    The CalTrans building in downtown LA radiates hatred of humanity.

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  99. @Anon 2
    Here's something interesting - Ethnic composition of UCLA students

    Asian 31.6%
    White 26.1%
    Hispanic 21.3%
    Black 5.2%
    International 11.8%

    Back in the '60s practically all universities in the U.S, including UCLA,
    were close to 90% white. And not so long ago, around 2000, both white and
    Asian percentages at UCLA were about the same ~ 40%.

    California is now 37% white, 39% Hispanic, and 15% Asian. Both Hispanic and
    Asian percentages are rising rapidly, while whites, the oldest group, are declining.
    The Asian percentage at UCLA is probably closer to 40% since the international
    students are mostly Asian. Whites at UCLA are heavily Jewish so UCLA is closer
    to only 10% White Gentile. Summarizing, UCLA students are about 40% Asian,
    15% Jewish, 10% White Gentile. The main difference from Harvard is the
    extremely high percentage of Asians and Hispanics.

    For me the biggest surprise was the rapidly rising percentage of Hispanics
    both at UCLA and at UC Irvine.

    “…..For me the biggest surprise was the rapidly rising percentage of Hispanics
    both at UCLA and at UC Irvine.”

    Yeah..that’s where I’m kinda skeptical. There were a few Hispanics from my high school who also went to UCSB, and they deserved admittance as much (or as little) as I did. But that pool wasn’t very deep.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    UC Irvine's got some kind of Master Plan going on to make itself the Hispanic Harvard.

    Lotsa luck ...

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  100. @fred c dobbs
    ".....For me the biggest surprise was the rapidly rising percentage of Hispanics
    both at UCLA and at UC Irvine."

    Yeah..that's where I'm kinda skeptical. There were a few Hispanics from my high school who also went to UCSB, and they deserved admittance as much (or as little) as I did. But that pool wasn't very deep.

    UC Irvine’s got some kind of Master Plan going on to make itself the Hispanic Harvard.

    Lotsa luck …

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    • Replies: @fred c dobbs
    Irvine, Calif., May 22, 2017 — The U.S. Department of Education has named the University of California, Irvine a Hispanic-serving institution for 2017-18, meaning that fully one-quarter of undergraduates identify as Latino and that half of all students receive financial aid.

    Sub-head: "Latino enrollment reaches 25.7 percent, reflecting campus commitment to diversity"
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I remember when this hit the OC Register. I remember thinking....."so THIS is what the DoE does all day!". I also remember thinking "Why should this matter, one way or another?" and "What is so magical @ 25%?"

    I guess the school can now help itself to all sorts of Bonus Prizes

    I get depressed reading stories like this. Which means I am depressed a lot. LOL.....I guess I am a dinosaur who recalls when Identity Politics was but one of many issues, not the SOLE animating issue.

    https://news.uci.edu/2017/05/22/uci-meets-u-s-department-of-education-eligibility-as-a-hispanic-serving-institution/

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  101. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    Doctors, like lawyers, have their own deficiencies.

    Morally, I'd tend to put doctors on a higher plane. However, just as lawyers are generally people who work with words yet cannot write anything compelling to those outside their profession, doctors are tradesmen of the flesh who have a hard time venturing beyond their professional vista.

    It would be for the better if more doctors married outside their profession. This class sorting is a bad thing in a cohesive population, and wise men have tried to mitigate the tendency for thousands of years. The best way to improve a people is to improve the mean, which is not accomplished by rigid class hierarchies (e.g. India).

    When I was a kid, all the doctors I knew had mother-homemaker wives and many had sizable families. We heard there were bachelor doctors that played the field, two doctor families and even one that was rumored to go the other way, but those were rarities.

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    • Replies: @fred c dobbs
    Somebody wrote on that some time ago. For all I know it was our very own host here (Steve does have a pretty impressive body of work). Doctors married nurses. Plant managers married secretaries. I had a boss in the 90s....PhD in Finance.....married a flight attendant (who he hit on during a flight, of course. Though in all likelihood I imagine the hitter-hittee was rather fluid).

    Made for a less stratified society. The M.D. spent time with his HVAC technician brother-in-law. Very little of that going on now. We are becoming ye olde England of centuries past in that respect, and not in a good way.

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  102. @Chris Mallory
    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over "professionals" any day of the week. Most "professionals" don't have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.

    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over “professionals” any day of the week. Most “professionals” don’t have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.

    We discussed this the other day in “Bright Flight at Harvard”. Talking to most blue-collar white people is like talking to the wall.

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    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    The blue collar guy can help you fix your car or build a wall. The Harvard grad is only good for getting the US into wars that have nothing to do with our national interest. Blue collar every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
    , @silviosilver
    Most of my friends these days are uneducated, working class types. It's hard to imagine any of them ever reading a book, although I think a couple occasionally do. Obviously the conversations are not intellectually stimulating, yet they're fun and interesting people all the same, and they all seem to at least implicitly value the racial and cultural similarities between us. I never hear anyone complaining that something is 'racist' or 'sexist' or 'homophobic', and the people we associate with, the places we go, the things we do all revolve around this racial/cultural milieu, which is mostly southern and eastern European, although there is no small amount of WASP-types included too.
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  103. @Ivy
    University life now isn't what many recall. As a regular visitor to various campuses around SoCal, I see and hear the differences. The toll of diversity has atomized an undergrad population that used to find some comfort in clubs, groups and Greek life. During your undergrad days, you probably had occasion to join one or more of those. Now, students are more focused on (read, terrified about) career prospects, so tend to monetize most non-studying time relative to networking or job prospects. Conviviality and community service, for example, tend to be less regarded than in prior years.

    That was driven home repeatedly by advisory and alumni interaction with top students on their way to jobs with big-name firms in the Bay Area upon graduation. They don't care as much about each other or about their schools beyond being means to ends. Sadly, they look to instant gratification routinely and not to what their parents' generation would have considered to be more respectful interaction with professors or even family. That does not bode well for future alumni donations.

    Good post.

    From my own experience, this is very true. Today’s students are very socially atomized and anti-social. One reason is because they have easy access to electronic “entertainment” (tv, Netflix, Youtube, Ipod, DVDs, video games), which makes it less neccessary to go out and look for fun adventures. Another factor is that the spread of smartphones, “social media” (more like anti-social media), and texting has obviated the need to hang out with friends. Instead of seeing each other at parties or clubs/bars, students upload “selfies” on Instagram/Facebook (for which they get “likes”), Twitter out their random thoughts, and text (or perhaps “Snapchat”) their buddies.

    Very recently, I visited my alma mater on a Friday evening. I walked around for about an hour. I noticed that there were only a few students on campus or near the adjacent “Greek” fraternity housing. Some of the students were quietly socializing in small groups, but there were no wild or raucous parties going on. There also was hardly any interaction between males and females. For whatever reason, social groups were mostly strictly gender-segregated. I did finally some frat guys having a moderate-sized get together at their enormous house, but their social event was pretty mellow and didn’t seem to involve any females.

    I should mention that my alma mater has tens of thousands of students and is located in a large-sized city. So it’s really amazing how dead the atmosphere was on a Friday evening, especially considering that the weather was decent. Classes had just begun (after the end of Spring Break), so students didn’t have any tests or projects to worry about at that time.

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  104. @Anonymous
    When I was a kid, all the doctors I knew had mother-homemaker wives and many had sizable families. We heard there were bachelor doctors that played the field, two doctor families and even one that was rumored to go the other way, but those were rarities.

    Somebody wrote on that some time ago. For all I know it was our very own host here (Steve does have a pretty impressive body of work). Doctors married nurses. Plant managers married secretaries. I had a boss in the 90s….PhD in Finance…..married a flight attendant (who he hit on during a flight, of course. Though in all likelihood I imagine the hitter-hittee was rather fluid).

    Made for a less stratified society. The M.D. spent time with his HVAC technician brother-in-law. Very little of that going on now. We are becoming ye olde England of centuries past in that respect, and not in a good way.

    Read More
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  105. @Steve Sailer
    UC Irvine's got some kind of Master Plan going on to make itself the Hispanic Harvard.

    Lotsa luck ...

    Irvine, Calif., May 22, 2017 — The U.S. Department of Education has named the University of California, Irvine a Hispanic-serving institution for 2017-18, meaning that fully one-quarter of undergraduates identify as Latino and that half of all students receive financial aid.

    Sub-head: “Latino enrollment reaches 25.7 percent, reflecting campus commitment to diversity”
    —————————————————————————-
    I remember when this hit the OC Register. I remember thinking…..”so THIS is what the DoE does all day!”. I also remember thinking “Why should this matter, one way or another?” and “What is so magical @ 25%?”

    I guess the school can now help itself to all sorts of Bonus Prizes

    I get depressed reading stories like this. Which means I am depressed a lot. LOL…..I guess I am a dinosaur who recalls when Identity Politics was but one of many issues, not the SOLE animating issue.

    https://news.uci.edu/2017/05/22/uci-meets-u-s-department-of-education-eligibility-as-a-hispanic-serving-institution/

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  106. @joeyjoejoe
    You boobs aren't getting it.

    "A big plus is interacting less with people who think they are winners like you but tend be anything but if you look at their finances."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I have a friend who is an electrician who makes a seven figure income."

    Winner = money. I've never said or implied that. But you did.

    "I’ve yet to meet anyone that looks down on blue collar workers that is a winner. If your self esteem relies on going to college, the modern equivalent of graduating high school, you need to take a look in the mirror."

    My self esteem doesn't depend on going to college. My social and cultural comfort does-as does the social and cultural comfort of virtually all college graduates, and virtually every commenter on this board.

    The cultural, social, and intellectual difference between most blue collar folks (even those that make lots of money, for those of you who are counting), and most white collar folks, is irrefutable, and a virtual permanent part of our popular culture. That difference existed, in most people, in high school, and it exists once they finish high school and move on to either college or tradework. That cultural and educational divide was probably formed by the age of 10, and was reinforced by high school class choices, and then career choice. If they move on to the army, the same divide will exist-officers will hang out with officers, and enlisted will hang out with enlisted-even if they like and respect each other. Lawyers hang out with lawyers-whether they admire or disdain the HVAC guy that fixes their air conditioner. Engineers hang out with engineers. Electricians hang out with electricians. And so on. In my neighborhood, there are lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. In my electricians neighborhood, there aren't. I spend time with lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, and school teachers. My electrician doesn't.


    This is an utterly bizarre argument to be having on a site which is devoted to the idea that humans have different intellectual capacities, that those capacities are innate, and that they have tangible and clear cultural and social implications. On this site, we talk about them all the time. We talk about school safety, educational effectiveness, cultural and intellectual decline, crime, dysfunctional behavior, and so on. Denying the significance of the cultural difference between tradesmen and white collar workers is literally denying the validity of this whole site.

    Its an utterly bizarre argument to be having in a blog conversation devoted to discussing what greater competition has done to university slots in California: if the cultural differences that I am asserting between community college and university didn't exist, there wouldn't be a difference between community college and university (it wouldn't be the subject of an article in the New York Times), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation!

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we're talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.

    joe

    Its almost as if HBD is fine if you are talking about other races, but if its whites we’re talking about, you all turn into Bernie Sanders.

    That’s because the majority of people on this board voted for Trump. Trump would not have won but for dumb white people. So the posters have a dilemma. They don’t want to insult the Trump voter, yet they know that his supporters are dumb. So they ascribe other positive attributes to them they would never ascribe to a black Obama or Hillary voter, even though they are equally dumb.

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  107. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    Another alternative may be convincing colleges to offer three year degrees. UK universities all offer three year bachelor's degrees and now there is talk of having them offer two year degrees by teaching through the summer term too.

    The three-year degree idea is gaining traction. The Chronicle of Higher Education had a five-article special report on the topic last week. Universities know that debt fear is driving students away.

    https://www.chronicle.com/specialreport/4-Years-for-a-Bachelor-s-/196

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  108. The Armenian view is generally: well, then, don’t send your daughter off to live in a dorm until she’s a little more mature.

    The really smart approach would be – don’t send your daughter to college at all. Higher education for women has been a tragic mistake.

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  109. My friend Daryl attended Uni of Texas at Austin in the mid 1980s….he was telling me that back then and he’s in his late 40s now….UT Austin was “$500 a year” and that included dorm and cafeteria expenses…..a few weekends doing a fast food job would plug any additional costs….he grew up in Houston and ended up finishing at University of Houston….

    My anatomy professor was telling me three yes ago that his friend in Austin sends his kids to the University of Mississippi and University of Arkansas because OUT OF STATE TUITION FOR TWO KIDS COMBINED is cheaper than paying in state tuition at UT Austin these days…

    UT Austin costs as much.as Stanford or USC….

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  110. @Obsessive Contrarian
    Not strange. The Polish Commonwealth was Catholic and the Jews were by law, Christ-killers.

    Jews, Armenians, etc. were in the Ottoman Empire and the Muslim Caliphate didn't hate Jews at all. They hated Armenians. Not strange.

    I know what you are saying: Jews are simply, essentially, hateful. So just say so outright instead of being such a passive-aggressive POS.

    I know what you are saying: Jews are simply, essentially, hateful. So just say so outright instead of being such a passive-aggressive POS.

    Do not push a child into my belly.

    I never said, never implied and I do not think that Jews are “simply, essentially, hateful”. In my post I brought a case of Scots, catholics, about whom we do have stereotypes. We have stereotypes about Germans. About Gypsies.About Russians. Yet you have to think it’s about Jews. SOme kind of paranoia, I think.

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  111. @flyingtiger
    English 101 is the same the world over. The CCs may have better English teachers because all they are expected to do is teach.

    This is true.

    I took some elective courses outside my major at the local CC, located a 10-minute drive from my house and respected enough that the credits were accepted by my university. One of the English Lit instructors was a retired Columbia prof bored with his retirement. I became friendly with an anthropology prof, a Jew who grew up poor in Roxbury, with a shadowy past in the OSS and numerous tales about interesting places.

    Both were total pros in the classroom.

    When I had a meeting with the director of the scholarship program I was part of at my “real” college, I commented about the high level of instruction at the Juco. He said he heard the same thing from many students.

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  112. @ScarletNumber

    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over “professionals” any day of the week. Most “professionals” don’t have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.
     
    We discussed this the other day in "Bright Flight at Harvard". Talking to most blue-collar white people is like talking to the wall.

    The blue collar guy can help you fix your car or build a wall. The Harvard grad is only good for getting the US into wars that have nothing to do with our national interest. Blue collar every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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  113. @Lugash

    Now, the habit of sending kids off to someplace to study at Community College, which was evident even in my early to mid 1990s era (((Westside))) LA kids studying at SBCC., is ridiculous (maybe deadly!) But JCs offer a good alternative to the current grind.
     
    Going out of state to study at a CC is a real thing now. I worked at a CC for a few years recently. From what I gathered, the kids doing this were evenly split between kids in California who faced crowded CCs or long commutes and those from the hinterlands of America.

    Going back to school at a CC to stop the clock on student loan payments was also a thing.

    One point against CCs: The one I worked at had a few white misfits who seemed to be protected like a couple of our recent school shooters. I'm not sure if they were protected by policy or law, but they didn't belong at school.

    CC’s especially those in more remote locations tend to attract a certain number of what were once known as Remittance Men. The one I attended in Southeastern Arizona always had a couple of these characters. Some were potentially dangerous and all were slightly deranged, one was on his fourth year at the school.

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  114. @Bill P
    I'm going to have my kids get a two year degree with a trade specialty that they can use immediately to get a job, and then follow up with a professional degree if it suits them.

    You can, for example, get a two year degree and an opticianry certificate. That will pretty much guarantee a decent job. Then, if you are up to it, you can study more and become an optometrist, and make good money as a professional.

    There are many, many options along those lines.

    For those of us who are of modest means, like most Americans, it's the most sensible course of action. It also keeps the kids from becoming influenced by college culture, because they are more focused on training for a job than on the stupid stuff like student "movements" and drunken hookups at keggers.

    Finally, most kids, including most intelligent people's kids, are barely bright enough to use a four year degree. A four year degree is really only helpful for people in the top quartile or so of IQ. Even if two very bright people have a kid, it's as likely as not that he won't make the cut, while for average people, obviously, he probably won't. So there should be more support for community colleges and trade schools, and probably somewhat less for four year institutions.

    This. In spades.

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  115. @Intelligent Dasein

    If that’s your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.
     
    Do you really have nothing better to do than express an unsolicited opinion on my literary preferences? Honestly, why would you even write something like that? What purpose does it serve?

    I any case, you would lose that bet. I certainly prefer Waugh to Greene, although I'm not greatly enamored with either one of them. I think that Waugh's stories have a great deal of potential, but he doesn't get the best out of them. Now that you mention it, when you through in Orwell, Galsworthy, Milne, Wodehouse, etc., there is quite a long list of English authors from that time period who, while much beloved or their whimsies, are seriously overrated in terms of their artistry.

    Most British authors are depressing to read. Must be the lack of sunshine in their country.

    After I read Brideshead Revisited I wanted to kill myself. I could barely finish Brighton Rock because all the characters were so dismal.

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  116. @Gary
    Community college worked for me. Made loads of money as a plumber doing heavy
    labor repairing sewer mains and the like. Most of my coworkers were disabled to
    some extent by 40. My wife who came from old Stanford money suggested I go to
    community college in Marin where we owned a nice home on the lower slopes
    of Mt. Tamalpais.
    Her inheritance paid for my education. Since it was unearned, we got 100% free
    financial aid as a family of four. Took 25 units a semester taking physical science
    and math courses at College of Marin. transferred to UCSC after a 1 1/2 half
    at community. Got my B.S. in chemistry in 21 months at UC.
    Taught chemistry and physics at an inner-city high school year-round
    in LAUSD for decades. After my social worker wife took early retirement, I took
    off 4 months a year (March, April, September, and October) for off-peak
    travel (100+ countries). Retired at 57 with reciprocal pensions and lifetime 100%
    medical and dental. Comfortable with our paid off home only a block from the ocean
    south of LA.
    The Socialist Republic of California has been good to us. Unfortunately the Golden
    State is now the economic Suicide State with unlimited immigration and attendant
    terminal budget bloat and social problems.

    Yeah I wouldn’t count on those benefits being for life unless you already have one foot in the grave.

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  117. @Anonymous
    How does this affect the credential value of a UCLA diploma, if your resume says you were two years at a CC? And is two years at UCLA enough time to earn an M.R.S. degree?

    It affects nothing because the degree is the same. It does not have an asterisk. I did it this way and now I’m a tenure-track humanities professor and no one cares that I barely graduated high school, worked retail for two years, and got into a good school via CC transfer.

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  118. @AnonAnon
    Living in SoCal and having just gone through the college application process, I can tell you that most of the really bright white kids in California do try to get into the good UCs/Cal Poly. But honestly, if you are white, you’d better have a 4.7+ GPA (that means all honors and double-digit numbers of the hardest AP classes/dual enrollment), at least a 34 ACT score, and be a four-year athlete to have a decent chance of getting into UCLA/Berkeley. At my kid’s US News Silver-ranked high school, that was the top 5%. (Parkland High School ‘survivor’ David Hogg’s whining about not getting into UCSB with a 4.2 and 1270 SAT was hilarious. He had no shot with those stats, even paying the OOS UC rate of $61K. I’m shocked he even got into Cal Poly but I wonder if some SJW type in admissions let him in after he got famous.) Kids who leave the state usually can’t get into UCSB (let alone Berkeley or UCLA) or Cal Poly for engineering but will get into Purdue and pay through the nose for it. ( [White male] kids with 4.6 GPAs who don’t get into UCSB is common.) Wealthy white kids aim for USC but it’s as hard to get into as UCLA. Many other state’s public universities offer automatic merit scholarships for bright California kids that make it attractive to look outside the state and bring the cost down close to a UC and sometimes a Cal State.

    You also forget that most of the top UCs are heavily Asian and that is another reason white kids often look outside the state for college. Additionally, not every kids enjoys the uber-liberal atmosphere (not to mention incredibly cutthroat student body) of Berkeley, no matter how prestigious it it. UCSB is the whitest of the UCs, at around something like 34%. From eye-balling it at open house, UCI is probably around 10% European white.

    You also have to take into account that the UCs/Cal Poly are heavily impacted, meaning that it’s very tough to change your major and/or graduate in four years. When you do the math, attending “roomier” Purdue, UVA, or CU Boulder with a bit of merit aid and getting out in four years is likely a push money-wise.

    I’ve also heard from other parents the community colleges are as impacted as the UCs/Cal States and take three years to get through, so you’re looking at 5-6 years to get a bachelors. You also need a near perfect GPA to transfer to the top UCs/Cal Poly. If you haunt College Confidential and reddit r/ApplyingToCollege forums you’ll see the stats of kids who got turned down for the UCs. The competition is brutal. UCLA and UCI got over 100,000 applications. Cal Poly got 65,000 this year, 12,000 more than last year. Competition for college in this state is insanely hard.

    There’s always Cal Poly Pomona :)

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  119. @joeyjoejoe
    The only problem with starting out at community college, is you end up spending your time with community college students.

    It is very similar to the problem with a similarly logical argument: the trades pay well, so why bother with college at all? Learn to be an electrician, make more money than a college graduate, don't go into college debt, and its a win-win! The lose side is: you will spend your life with other tradesmen. You will date tradesmen women.

    joe

    Much better to go to IVYs and hang around and become like: Wolfowitz, Summers, pick a Bush, Bernanke, Dershowitz, Blankfein, and other morally deficient thugs.

    Positive value to American society is zero. Negative value cannot be measured.

    Will trade the lot for one plumber or electrician or carpenter or auto mechanic or surveyor.

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  120. @Anonymous
    How would these political MCAT questions be scored? Would they just be dumped into the pot with all your other answers to produce a single numeric result? Or will we have two scores, Cognitive and Social Justice? Or will your Social Justice percentage be multiplied by your Cognitive score and released as a single, otherwise unexplained score?

    Some of those samples sound too tricky for black pre-meds to figure out. "[L]ack of ... African Americans ... among university faculty members ... due to symbolic racism, institutional racism, hidden racism, or personal bias." You'd have to have actually paid attention in your Studies class to answer this. The only way I could figure it out is that it wouldn't be personal bias, and symbolic and hidden are not official jargon words like "institutional," so they were probably just made up as filler for the answers.

    People tell me that tests and interviews for ed. school masters programs are full of these questions. You'd have to be a psychopath to be able to fake your way in if you don't agree with the SJ program.

    How would these political MCAT questions be scored? Would they just be dumped into the pot with all your other answers to produce a single numeric result?

    Presumably the final score will be increasingly weighted towards getting the PC section right as the years pass.

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  121. Here is something that some people don’t understand about community college and college in general (but first some background):

    I started college in the Fall of ’79 after having first served in the army for three years. I thought that I might want to be a high school teacher and I double-majored in German Language & Literature Studies and Geography. It wasn’t until I did my student-teaching semester that I discovered that I didn’t like teaching. For one thing, the kids were like something out of _Lord of the Flies_. After graduating I went into the byzantine world of defense-contracting where I labor to this very day.

    My freshman year I took just two German courses; 131 and 132. My freshman year I took just two more; 231 & 232. You couldn’t take any more than that the first two years. German 232 built on 231, which built on 132, which on 131. I had a roommate who was an accounting major who’s degree worked the exact same way.

    My point is this: If you start college but don’t know what your major is going to be you probably aren’t going to take the right freshman courses. Someone could spend two years in community college, transfer to a four-year college and then discover that they were going to have to be in college an additional four years for a total of six.

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  122. @Intelligent Dasein

    If that’s your preferred aesthetic, then it is a reasonable bet that, if you read novels, you prefer Graham Greene to Evelyn Waugh.
     
    Do you really have nothing better to do than express an unsolicited opinion on my literary preferences? Honestly, why would you even write something like that? What purpose does it serve?

    I any case, you would lose that bet. I certainly prefer Waugh to Greene, although I'm not greatly enamored with either one of them. I think that Waugh's stories have a great deal of potential, but he doesn't get the best out of them. Now that you mention it, when you through in Orwell, Galsworthy, Milne, Wodehouse, etc., there is quite a long list of English authors from that time period who, while much beloved or their whimsies, are seriously overrated in terms of their artistry.

    Everything on this site is unsolicited. If that’s your worry, then what in heaven’s name are you doing here yourself?

    Nobody who has a serious interest and, more importantly, understanding of English literature would ever name Galsworthy and Milne in ths same breath as Orwell and Wodehouse.

    Waugh’s aesthetic is the beauty of order; Greene’s the fascination of filth, moral and physical. That you didn’t immediately see my point (which was meant in a perfectly friendly and inquiring way) shows that you have neither read much of the work of either, nor understood anything of what you did read.

    As for Waugh not getting the best out of his “stories” … well, words fail.

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  123. @Anonymous

    Chief Rabbi: We must work to stop massacre in Syria
    'As Jews, who went through national extermination, whose Torah is a light unto the nations, it is our moral duty to act.'
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/244101
     

    ISRAELI OFFICIALS: U.S. MUST STRIKE IN SYRIA
    http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-officals-US-must-strike-in-Syria-549144
     
    How many more countries have to be destroyed, and millions have to die, for this shitty little pseudo-country founded on stolen land??

    My word.
    It’s so obvious. So, so obvious.

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  124. @Obsessive Contrarian
    Not strange. The Polish Commonwealth was Catholic and the Jews were by law, Christ-killers.

    Jews, Armenians, etc. were in the Ottoman Empire and the Muslim Caliphate didn't hate Jews at all. They hated Armenians. Not strange.

    I know what you are saying: Jews are simply, essentially, hateful. So just say so outright instead of being such a passive-aggressive POS.

    You are objectively factually incorrect here. Poland had religious liberty, a minority of Calvinists, and any Pole who wanted to bring a legal case against a Jew would find that the Constitution privileged them over him and raised the required number of witnesses.
    The basis of Eastern European anti-Semitism wasn’t theology, it was the flagrant abuse of privileges which were clearly originally meant to prevent bigotry.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The basis of Eastern European anti-Semitism wasn’t theology, it was the flagrant abuse of privileges which were clearly originally meant to prevent bigotry.

    Please elaborate.
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  125. Anonymous[549] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    You are objectively factually incorrect here. Poland had religious liberty, a minority of Calvinists, and any Pole who wanted to bring a legal case against a Jew would find that the Constitution privileged them over him and raised the required number of witnesses.
    The basis of Eastern European anti-Semitism wasn't theology, it was the flagrant abuse of privileges which were clearly originally meant to prevent bigotry.

    The basis of Eastern European anti-Semitism wasn’t theology, it was the flagrant abuse of privileges which were clearly originally meant to prevent bigotry.

    Please elaborate.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The ruling class brought in Jews to be like what we would call efficiency experts. To protect them they were given special privileges -- not only a degree of legal immunity beyond the inherent protection of representing the rulers, but in some cases lower class people had to accept Jewish products such as liquor in place of cash payment for work. The Jews were their typical restrained empathetic ethical selves and then we had Bohdan Khmielnitsky.
    This is widely understood among the properly educated, there is a very brief and one-sided rundown of it in Arthur Miller's Focus, it is profusely illustrated with maps and engravings in Ignacz Cyprian Pogonowski's Jews In Poland, but there are still people whose understanding of the history of the region comes from Fiddler On The Roof.
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  126. @Anonymous
    The basis of Eastern European anti-Semitism wasn’t theology, it was the flagrant abuse of privileges which were clearly originally meant to prevent bigotry.

    Please elaborate.

    The ruling class brought in Jews to be like what we would call efficiency experts. To protect them they were given special privileges — not only a degree of legal immunity beyond the inherent protection of representing the rulers, but in some cases lower class people had to accept Jewish products such as liquor in place of cash payment for work. The Jews were their typical restrained empathetic ethical selves and then we had Bohdan Khmielnitsky.
    This is widely understood among the properly educated, there is a very brief and one-sided rundown of it in Arthur Miller’s Focus, it is profusely illustrated with maps and engravings in Ignacz Cyprian Pogonowski’s Jews In Poland, but there are still people whose understanding of the history of the region comes from Fiddler On The Roof.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Thank you. Interesting.
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  127. From wiki:
    Nevertheless, Christian Poles coexisted with a significant Jewish segment of the population.[12][13]

    In the 15th century, the Hussite Wars and the pressure from the papacy led to religious tensions between Catholics and the emergent Hussite and subsequent Protestant community; particularly after the Edict of Wieluń (1424).[14] The Protestant movement gained a significant following in Poland; and while Catholicism retained a dominant position, the liberal Warsaw Confederation (1573) guaranteed wide religious tolerance.[14] The resulting counter-reformation movement eventually succeeded in reducing the scope for tolerance by the late 17th and early 18th century – as evidenced by events such as the Tumult of Torun (1724).[14][15][16]

    When Poland lost its independence to foreign invaders in 1795, Poles were subjected to religious discrimination in the expanded Germany and Imperial Russia.[17]

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  128. @ScarletNumber

    Honestly, I would rather hang out with tradesmen over “professionals” any day of the week. Most “professionals” don’t have enough common sense to know how to pour urine out of a boot.
     
    We discussed this the other day in "Bright Flight at Harvard". Talking to most blue-collar white people is like talking to the wall.

    Most of my friends these days are uneducated, working class types. It’s hard to imagine any of them ever reading a book, although I think a couple occasionally do. Obviously the conversations are not intellectually stimulating, yet they’re fun and interesting people all the same, and they all seem to at least implicitly value the racial and cultural similarities between us. I never hear anyone complaining that something is ‘racist’ or ‘sexist’ or ‘homophobic’, and the people we associate with, the places we go, the things we do all revolve around this racial/cultural milieu, which is mostly southern and eastern European, although there is no small amount of WASP-types included too.

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  129. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    The ruling class brought in Jews to be like what we would call efficiency experts. To protect them they were given special privileges -- not only a degree of legal immunity beyond the inherent protection of representing the rulers, but in some cases lower class people had to accept Jewish products such as liquor in place of cash payment for work. The Jews were their typical restrained empathetic ethical selves and then we had Bohdan Khmielnitsky.
    This is widely understood among the properly educated, there is a very brief and one-sided rundown of it in Arthur Miller's Focus, it is profusely illustrated with maps and engravings in Ignacz Cyprian Pogonowski's Jews In Poland, but there are still people whose understanding of the history of the region comes from Fiddler On The Roof.

    Thank you. Interesting.

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  130. @Anonymous
    How does this affect the credential value of a UCLA diploma, if your resume says you were two years at a CC? And is two years at UCLA enough time to earn an M.R.S. degree?

    It doesn’t affect the credential value. But it may affect the networking value, if you don’t have the same opportunity to bond with your freshman-year dorm-mates, work your way up to leadership roles in extracurricular activities, etc. — or, if one’s goal is to pursue the M.R.S., join a sorority.

    Then again, a place like UCLA is so huge and atomized that maybe one doesn’t lose much joining mid-stream. One of the good things about UCLA (it was one of my three finalists before I attended a similar school) is that, despite the looney left institutional culture on all college campuses, there is really something for everyone. Anyone can find a niche to pursue one’s goals, if one is mature enough to navigate. (Most aren’t; I wasn’t.)

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  131. @Bill P
    I'm going to have my kids get a two year degree with a trade specialty that they can use immediately to get a job, and then follow up with a professional degree if it suits them.

    You can, for example, get a two year degree and an opticianry certificate. That will pretty much guarantee a decent job. Then, if you are up to it, you can study more and become an optometrist, and make good money as a professional.

    There are many, many options along those lines.

    For those of us who are of modest means, like most Americans, it's the most sensible course of action. It also keeps the kids from becoming influenced by college culture, because they are more focused on training for a job than on the stupid stuff like student "movements" and drunken hookups at keggers.

    Finally, most kids, including most intelligent people's kids, are barely bright enough to use a four year degree. A four year degree is really only helpful for people in the top quartile or so of IQ. Even if two very bright people have a kid, it's as likely as not that he won't make the cut, while for average people, obviously, he probably won't. So there should be more support for community colleges and trade schools, and probably somewhat less for four year institutions.

    >Finally, most kids, including most intelligent people’s kids, are barely bright enough to use a four year degree.

    Beyond that, there are plenty of kids who are in that top quartile, but are nowhere near mature enough at 18 for college, especially if they aren’t used to making their own decisions. I have rather personal experience with this one… that, and many kids, especially the ones taking teen-numbers of APs or college courses, are simply pretty burnt out after 12 years of non-stop schooling.

    Yet our educational system has set up massive structural incentives to go to college at 18, and it is profoundly counterproductive, not least because older students (both undergraduate and graduate) tended to be way, way better students and researchers. Speaking as someone born in the 1990s who went to a variety of schools in different socioeconomic millieus, ranging from dirt poor to snobby rich, we were all pretty much nevertheless bombarded with the message that you *had* had had to go to college right out of high school, so that for many of us, it quite literally didn’t occur to us that other options-deferring college to work for a year or two, for example-were, well, options. And given that our economic system is such that many jobs that don’t use bachelor degrees now require them simply as a way of filtering out resumes…

    It’s definitely a problem. I’m in Asia right now, and South Korea and Taiwan are struggling with massive educational oversupply, dwarfing ours, in part due to the Confucian hyper-emphasis on education. (Something like over 60% of young Koreans have BS degrees.) So many college grads that the economy can’t handle. Kind of reminds me of what happened to Iran with all the high school grads the White Revolution produced. Illiterate laborers were paid more than high school grads in 1970s Iran, and you’d better believe that was a key factor in pushing a lot of underemployed young men to the mullahs.

    >I’m going to have my kids get a two year degree with a trade specialty that they can use immediately to get a job, and then follow up with a professional degree if it suits them.

    I genuinely tip my hat to you, sir, because lot of the older people I’ve met who advocate trade degrees always mean it for somebody else’s average kids, never their own.

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  132. @szopen
    Here's a thing: In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth there were a lot of Armenians, who occupied the niches of middlemen together with Jews. Armenians were traders, crafters etc - yet, somehow, there are absolutely no stereotypes of Armenians in Poland.

    Heck, we had bunch os Scotts who escaped to PLC and started to work as traders - and we got stereotypes of Scotts as being stingy greedy m**f**rs. Yet nothing about Armenians. Strange, huh?

    From the stories our friends from Burbank tell about Armenians, there must be a stereotype that Armenians are not good neighbors.

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