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From KTLA:

U.S. Navy Ships Involved in 2 Deadly Collision Had Dismal Training Records: Government Data

POSTED 9:45 AM, SEPTEMBER 11, 2017, BY CNN WIRE

A long-term priority of the Obama Administration was injecting diversity into the upper ranks of the military to seed the command structure with enough members of the Coalition of the Fringes to take care of future eventualities.

 
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  1. There’s a reason we’ve moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They’re islands of Trump’s America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that’s the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here’s Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs:

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    My God. That group is much whiter than the PGA. Tiger Woods would have made a hell of a Seal.
    , @Anon
    The fact they're white doesn't surprise as much as they look like a group of Vikings coming off their ship for a little sight-seeing. Wow! I'd guess more than 80% of those kids are of Northern European stock.
    , @Ed
    I don't even think the KKK is this white these days.
    , @Rod1963
    Even the conventional combat units are mostly white, you won't find blacks in them. If you watch the National Geographic specials on the Afghanistan fighting, it's mostly white guys with a smattering of Hispanics.

    Clinton hated that and I suspect so did Obama - that high concentration of highly trained and lethal whites. I also suspect they hated the fact that once those men left the service(especially the snipers) they just become part of the crowd.
    , @Rantly McTirade
    Why do those Hessians have their eyes blacked out?
    Really, if they're such bad mofo's they shouldn't have to hide their identity, like antifa or the klan.
    Or perhaps they realize that their activities have absolutely nothing to do with the best interests of the nation or the vast majority of American citizens, and that even the dullards that dominate the nation's populace will eventually realize this and quit 'supporting'(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.
    , @Neoconned
    To be fair, theres no more stomach for wide scale deployments of reserves to fuckholes like Iraq. I mean it was insane.

    We blew $2 billion a wk a few yrs back in Afghanistan.....and for what? To prop up a bunch of tribal heroin mobsters and to protect bacha basi pederasts?

    Trumps wall was to cost a lousy 30 billion. The welfare savings alone would pay for it. But we were spending that kinda dough in Iraq but cant spend a fraction of that on a wall? Come on.

    Is protecting child molesters and drug lords really that big of an isdue?
    , @Pericles
    Where's Waldo?
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  2. Newyorker says:

    My son is a navy submarine nuke. There is no affirmative action in this area. A high score on th the ABSCAM test (spelling) is required, probably over the 95th percentile, and still there are many dropouts from the training.

    The stakes are just too high for this indulgence which is exactly what it is. OK for cooks and swab bing the deck. Even with the tough screening my son says there are graduates of the program he hopes never to serve with on a sub. But that’s not AA at fault, just that some careless people not adequate screened out. I have to wonder if these accidents are the result of that ,or AA. The positions seem too high to leave to the possible in competency of an AA candidate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Depressingly, importance of position is no barrier to AA. (Arguably the commander-in-chief was an AA hire last time, though he did win the election.) I've seen it in medicine, science, etc. (You may remember Pres. Trump's prior statement on the preferred ethnicity of his accountants.) Steve's covered AA in firefighting for a while, and that's literally life-or-death. We've seen gender ideology interfere with military readiness.

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.
    , @whoever
    The brown shoe Navy is just fine too, personnel-wise. "Yea, verily, airplane, it goeth 'Crash!'" is not what you want to hear all that often. I kid, but what else can you do? We do not forget you, LT Nathan Poloski, gone in what in Navalese is called a Class A Mishap. We surely do not.
    Nor do we forget any who have gone on ahead.

    I hope there's a place, way up in the sky,
    Where naval aviators can go when they have to die.
    A place where a guy could buy a cold beer
    For a friend and comrade whose memory is dear.
    A place where no blackshoe or porkchop could tread,
    Where a Pentagon type would ne'er be caught dead!
    Just a quaint little O' club; kind of dark, full of smoke,
    Where they like to sing loud, and love a good joke.
    The kind of place, where a lady could go
    And feel safe and protected by the men she would know.
    There must be a place where old Navy pilots go
    When their wings get too weary, and their airspeed gets low.
    Where the whiskey is old and the women are young,
    And songs about flying and dying are sung,
    Where you'd see all the shipmates you'd served with before,
    And they'd call out your name, as you came through the door,
    Who would buy you a drink, if your thirst should be bad
    And relate to the others, "He was quite a good lad!"
    And then through the mist you'd spot an old guy
    You had not seen in years, though he'd taught you to fly.
    He'd nod his old head and grin ear to ear,
    And say, "Welcome shipmate, I'm pleased that you're here!
    For this is the place where naval aviators come
    When the battles are over. and the wars have been won.
    They've come here at last to be safe and afar
    From the government clerk and the management czar,
    Politicians and lawyers, the feds and the noise,
    Where all hours are happy, and these good old boys
    Can relax with a cool one, and a well-deserved rest!
    This is Heaven, my son, you've passed your last test!"


    (Variously attributed, but I know it was written by CDR Jim Peek, who passed away in April.)
    , @ScarletNumber

    A high score on th the ABSCAM test (spelling) is required
     
    You probably mean the ASVAB, which stands for Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. ABSCAM was an FBI sting operation in 1980 which ensnared US Senator Harrison Williams from New Jersey among others.
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  3. Barnard says:

    From the full article:

    “Their aggressive deployment schedule gave the Navy more presence, it’s true. But it came at a cost, including detrimental effects on ship readiness,” Pendleton said. “In fact, we were told that the overseas based ships were so busy that they had to train on the margins. Term I’d not heard before. And it was explained to me that meant that they had to squeeze training in when they could.”

    What do they do on deployment that they don’t have time for training? China must really be intimidated by this. I wonder if pregnancy brain and duty reassignment after a pregnant woman is sent home are factors in some of these cases.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CAL2
    On deployment, they are busy running the ship which means things that you don't do on a daily basis don't get any practice. Even those things you do daily you start getting sloppy. Think of it as a football team that is playing a game every day. There isn't time for practice and performance begins to suffer. The QB's mechanics get sloppy. You can't run certain plays because you haven't practiced them enough, etc.

    I wonder if pregnancy brain and duty reassignment after a pregnant woman is sent home are factors in some of these cases.
     
    That's not helping things because it is leaving ships short-handed. So people have more jobs and that results in less training as well.

    In both of the destroyer collisions, the captain was not on the bridge in highly congested waters. That speaks to command negligence.
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  4. The United States military is being destroyed by anti-White race quotas and anti-White diversity.

    General Leprechaun Casey said the Ft. Hood Islamic terrorist attack by an Islamic terrorist US military officer was tragic, but Casey said what would be even more tragic would be if wonderful diversity in the US military was wounded. At least a dozen were killed and many more were wounded by an Islamic terrorist and all General Leprechaun Casey would do was shrug his shoulders.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The first commander of the Navy Commodore John Barry was also a Leprechaun. As was Phil Sheridan.
    , @larry lurker
    One of the most alarming hatefacts I've come across - and I can't remember where I read it, but it was shortly after Trump made his Gold Star family gaffe and destroyed his chance at winning the presidency - but someone pointed out that since 9/11 there have been more American servicemen murdered by their Muslim American fellow soldiers (eighteen people - thirteen in the Ft. Hood shooting, five in Chattanooga) than Muslim American servicemen killed in action (ten to fourteen, according to Daily Mail.)
    , @Lot
    I know of one military that fights jihadi terrorists rather than employs them as chaplains and hires them as psychologists. I thank the junior David Brooks for his service with our ally.
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  5. Bleuteaux says:

    I don’t know why anyone would enlist in the military today, sadly, given all the stories of political correctness. Probably not surprising that this is happening in the Navy, too, which hasn’t had significant combat for half a century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    People enlist because the military has turned into a jobs program with great benefits. This probably doesn't produce the best outcomes when our military needs to perform at a high level.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/01/exclusive-deployed-us-navy-has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse/
    , @Autochthon
    What qualifies as significant combat? Can you share your firsthand knowledge of it?
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  6. SFG says:

    OT, but did anybody notice Emily Yoffe’s articles on college rape in the Atlantic?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-campus-rape-policy/538974/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-bad-science-behind-campus-response-to-sexual-assault/539211/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-question-of-race-in-campus-sexual-assault-cases/539361/

    She’s been arguing due process is being trampled on for a while (shortly before, ah, leaving Slate)…but after doing two nicely argued articles taking on the due process issue and debunking the science…she ends by pointing out that, ah, minorities are hit hardest.

    I admire the bit of SJW jujitsu. Whatever your views on this (some of you might no doubt be willing to tolerate the current regime if it protects white women), it raises the possibility of an interesting countermeasure to SJW advances where liberals are strong. If you can show some SJW advance damages another protected group, you might be able to slow them down.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I think that is actually it. Their positions are simply incoherent. They might not care about logical incoherence as such, but they do care when a victim group is victimized. The more victim groups attain some degree of actual power, the more members of one victim group are going to be victimized by others. (It won't always be victim groups from the same category: more likely gays will victimize blacks, and blacks will victimize gays, etc.) In principle it will be possible to blame the dwindling number of "Christian" cishet white men, but that is useless on the practical level, since they will still need to decide what the "official" view on any given issue is, and increasingly victim groups will lose either way.

    They will lose. I have no doubt of that. THAT boot won't be stomping on the human face forever. The harder question is what comes after.
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  7. SFG says:
    @Newyorker
    My son is a navy submarine nuke. There is no affirmative action in this area. A high score on th the ABSCAM test (spelling) is required, probably over the 95th percentile, and still there are many dropouts from the training.

    The stakes are just too high for this indulgence which is exactly what it is. OK for cooks and swab bing the deck. Even with the tough screening my son says there are graduates of the program he hopes never to serve with on a sub. But that's not AA at fault, just that some careless people not adequate screened out. I have to wonder if these accidents are the result of that ,or AA. The positions seem too high to leave to the possible in competency of an AA candidate.

    Depressingly, importance of position is no barrier to AA. (Arguably the commander-in-chief was an AA hire last time, though he did win the election.) I’ve seen it in medicine, science, etc. (You may remember Pres. Trump’s prior statement on the preferred ethnicity of his accountants.) Steve’s covered AA in firefighting for a while, and that’s literally life-or-death. We’ve seen gender ideology interfere with military readiness.

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Kurt
    re: "a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps" SFG

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    Dan Kurt
    , @AnotherDad

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.
     
    Such an enlisted force does not exist. Blacks are right around 16%--pretty much at their % of young people, at most a percent or two over-represented.

    The military more or less mirrors the nation in its ethnic makeup. (The Hispanic thing has gotten harder to figure out as they've changed definitions in the stats I've seen.) Obviously in terms of sex is still skews heavily male.
    , @Pericles
    What will the Salon articles look like after a diverse force of firemen run into the inferno the next 9/11?
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  8. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    I find it mystifying that Derbyshire and Sailer haven’t yet commented on the irony of the US elite doing everything possible to turn their country into a version of China.

    China:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses and large corporations police speech, giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of China are obliterated or suppressed (Tibet)

    5. Obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: Taiwan, some worthless islands claimed by the Japanese, etc.

    US circa 2030:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America’s official party – giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses, NGOs, and large corporations police speech: Apple, ADL/SPLC, Cloudflare, Goolag, YouTube, Twitter, etc. – giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of the Democrats are obliterated or suppressed (White Caucasians)

    5. obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: endless Middle Eastern wars.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The idea that the third world is unironically the goal is not new or original, though I am more used to seeing comparisons to Mexico or Brazil. Perhaps Derb is prevented from this particular iteration by knowing extenuating details about China.
    While I surely know a lot less than him, I have trouble with your idea on this point: China is a little left-over imperialism away from being one of the purest and largest ethno-states on Earth. While the low-level Han fully expect to be crushed by the juggernaut, it's their juggernaut. There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren't impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway). These points are totally incompatible with our doom from dissolution and our genocidally hostile elites. There are no small towns in rural ... uhhh ... Jiangsu, which are being forced to accept whole communities of Somalis or Chicagfricans, specifically to disrupt their unforgivable purity. In fact, nakedly racist rioting and lynch mobs are alive and well in China, and the government doesn't really mind them all that much.
    A lot of your other points are good but they do not gain anything by specifying China as opposed to your standard third world hellhole. I think the tldr is: the target is not white skin per se, the target is anything Blackstone or Maitland or Madison would recognize as English legal or governmental tradition. I have been saying that Obama and Holder were bringing in Chinese legal thinking, eg, ditching no ex post facto in favoring of non-enforcement of any laws they didn't like, but nevertheless leaving those laws on the books just in case you change your mind. That's what the Chinese did to their first modern import-export trade advisor.
    , @jimbojones
    You make great points, but I think that the Democrats are overplaying their hand substantially. I think that the following three scenarios are all far more likely than Democrat single-party rule akin to what Singapore, Japan and Sweden have experienced:
    - The Republicans actually succeed in attracting Latinos.
    - The Democratic party splits.
    - The United States breaks up.

    The Republican party is a disaster of its own; but the hubris, incompetence, and general insanity of the Democratic party became obvious to all who would see a year ago. It was not just Trump. The Democrats were trounced at every level.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Good comment, Anon, but I think your 2030 date is off a bit. On this especially,

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America’s official party – giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists.
     
    I think you are late by 50 years or so, as we have been a one-party system since at least the mid-1990's. You may be getting confused by those 2 colors they use on the map. Those just represent the Red and Blue wings of the party - they have different mascots and what they call "platforms" to keep things fun. However, both wings of The Party are taking American straight to hell.

    I have no more comment. Thanks.
    , @Dmitry134564
    Republicans are dominant until 2024. Then, likely, the Democrats will recover. This is two-party rule.
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  9. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    My God. That group is much whiter than the PGA. Tiger Woods would have made a hell of a Seal.

    Read More
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  10. Barnard says:
    @Bleuteaux
    I don't know why anyone would enlist in the military today, sadly, given all the stories of political correctness. Probably not surprising that this is happening in the Navy, too, which hasn't had significant combat for half a century.

    People enlist because the military has turned into a jobs program with great benefits. This probably doesn’t produce the best outcomes when our military needs to perform at a high level.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/01/exclusive-deployed-us-navy-has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    This is absolutely true of the officers I have met, some of whom have told me that they will never leave simply due to the benefits, which are ludicrous. But is it true of the average enlisted guy? I don't know.
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  11. I was trying to comfort a lady commenter on this blog who said her son was turned down by the Navy for admission to Annapolis because her son had a knee injury and I went over the top in my opinion of the US Navy. Now that the Bush/Obama US Navy is smashing into everything, it doesn’t seem so comical.

    This is from March 2017, more relevant than ever:

    The US Navy is run by morons who can’t even run their own weapons systems. The US Navy is corrupt and deranged. The US Navy is a scam designed to enrich some bastards who should rot in hell.

    The Aegis Combat System must be maintained and operated by civilian electronics technicians because the stupid boobs in the US Navy are too dumb to run the damn thing. Deck Swabbing US Navy Dingbat Bastards Should Rot In Hell!

    John McCain is the treasonous spawn of the corrupt and vile US Navy. What more needs to be said?

    Read More
    • Replies: @TWS
    Civilians repairing our missile systems is nothing new. Boeing had a traveling circus of men that fixed the minute men missiles. I don't know if they still do or not but if they don't I bet less than half of what we have left will fire or hit the target.
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  12. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    The fact they’re white doesn’t surprise as much as they look like a group of Vikings coming off their ship for a little sight-seeing. Wow! I’d guess more than 80% of those kids are of Northern European stock.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Emblematic
    Employed to fight wars for ZOG.
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  13. A long-term priority of the Obama Administration…

    Hasn’t this been a priority since the Truman administration?

    Read More
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  14. injecting diversity into the upper ranks of the military to seed the command structure with enough members of the Coalition of the Fringes to take care of future eventualities.

    I would like to learn more about this.

    Read More
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  15. But at least obozo has the notable presidential accomplishments of …. er …. ah … did any of his picks win the NCAA tournament?

    Read More
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  16. Wazoo says:

    Diversity is tolerable in civilian life but will get people killed in the military. In battle, incompetent soldiers, sailors and airmen are killed, wounded and/or captured.

    The only way to stop the rot is for a leader to put his foot down and say, “enough.”

    Read More
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  17. @Bleuteaux
    I don't know why anyone would enlist in the military today, sadly, given all the stories of political correctness. Probably not surprising that this is happening in the Navy, too, which hasn't had significant combat for half a century.

    What qualifies as significant combat? Can you share your firsthand knowledge of it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    I'm thinking Vietnam. I don't mean to discount any conflicts since then. But I think our naval dominance has been pretty well established since then.
    , @International Jew
    I sense a hard edge to that comment, but in all fairness the US Navy hasn't faced anything like a credible foe, in battle, since WW2, and even then rarely, after the Battle of Midway.
    , @Dr. X

    What qualifies as significant combat?
     
    Oh, I'd say having a kamikaze crash through your flight deck into your hangar deck and turning your carrier into an inferno... getting torpedoed below the waterline, abandoning ship and having hundreds of crewmen eaten by sharks... getting attacked by multiple squadrons of enemy aircraft at 7 a.m. Sunday morning while anchored in your home port, and having your crippled battleship capsize while men are trapped below decks to die a slow death of starvation and lack of oxygen because you have no means to rescue them... you know, stuff like that -- and more -- that happened in World War II.

    No, the Navy hasn't seen significant combat in OVER fifty years.
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  18. Bleuteaux says:
    @Barnard
    People enlist because the military has turned into a jobs program with great benefits. This probably doesn't produce the best outcomes when our military needs to perform at a high level.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/01/exclusive-deployed-us-navy-has-a-pregnancy-problem-and-its-getting-worse/

    This is absolutely true of the officers I have met, some of whom have told me that they will never leave simply due to the benefits, which are ludicrous. But is it true of the average enlisted guy? I don’t know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    What other reason is there to join other than benefits or to get job/skills training? For the average enlisted even more so than the officers (lots of them are in it for slightly noble reasons like family tradition) Granted, there are a small contingent who probably join based on the fact that they think guns are cool and they grew up playing lots of Call of Duty.....
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  19. Whiskey says: • Website

    The composition of the military AFAIK is broken down to: fighting infantry, air combat units, artillery, tanks – mostly White. Spec Ops — almost entirely White. Rear area maintenance and HQ people — about half non-White mostly Black with a smattering of Hispanic and Asian.

    This matches the head of Equifax Security being a White woman with a couple of degrees in Music Composition from University of Georgia. Its a White male purge; and that will continue until massive failure brings about … White male slavery.

    Really, Shaniqua from the hood is not about to forgo her EBT balance and Hillary! is not about to forgo having a huge military to whack people she does not like that day; and both pretty much require under the present system a series of Black/Female chiefs and semi-enserfed White men doing all the actual work.

    [Hillary! is making it clear she intends to run again and WIN against you deplorables. Because its her turn!]

    Read More
    • Replies: @fish

    [Hillary! is making it clear she intends to run again and WIN against you deplorables. Because its her turn!]

     

    The Seinfeld scene (from the episode where Kramer takes up smoking) where Jackie Chiles tells opposing council "He's a goblin. By the time this case gets to trial, he'll be nothing more than a shrunken head." springs to mind whenever the thought of Hillary Clinton running for public office again is raised!
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  20. Bleuteaux says:
    @Autochthon
    What qualifies as significant combat? Can you share your firsthand knowledge of it?

    I’m thinking Vietnam. I don’t mean to discount any conflicts since then. But I think our naval dominance has been pretty well established since then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I accept your point.

    Those of us who have been in combat since the war in Viet Nam don't reckon there was anything insignificant about being shot at.

    Returning to the topic: it's true the quality of naval personnel suffer now just as they do in every other aspect of what used to be the U.S.A. With eleven carriers (and the John F. Kennedy under construction) and nine amphibious assault ships, plus all the cruisers, destroyers, submarines, frigates, and aircraft that go with them, though, that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time. I don't know that this is a good thing; I'm more inclined lately to cheer on anything that leads to the end of the current situation and an opportunity for a new, free nation to emerge from the ashes.

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  21. @Anon
    The fact they're white doesn't surprise as much as they look like a group of Vikings coming off their ship for a little sight-seeing. Wow! I'd guess more than 80% of those kids are of Northern European stock.

    Employed to fight wars for ZOG.

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  22. Dan Kurt says:
    @SFG
    Depressingly, importance of position is no barrier to AA. (Arguably the commander-in-chief was an AA hire last time, though he did win the election.) I've seen it in medicine, science, etc. (You may remember Pres. Trump's prior statement on the preferred ethnicity of his accountants.) Steve's covered AA in firefighting for a while, and that's literally life-or-death. We've seen gender ideology interfere with military readiness.

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.

    re: “a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps” SFG

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck’s exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    Dan Kurt

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    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    There is a new, well-reviewed book on the subject: African Kaiser: General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck and the Great War in Africa, 1914-1918 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0425283712/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_scaUzbNAFXZ5J
    , @AB-

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck’s exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.
     
    So The Aftican Queen was historically correct? Those natives did seem to enjoy shooting at the two evile whites in the boat.....I wonder if any of their relatives lived in Dallas or Baton Rouge???
    , @Pat Boyle
    Maybe that was the experience of the Germans in WWI but American experience was quite different. There have been at least a half dozen major black mutinies. These are easy to find in Wikipedia. In the majority of the cases the blacks shot at the whites and were only subdued by the force of arms.

    Everyone remembers the famous black fighter units of the Tuskegee Airmen. There was also a black bomber unit but all were imprisoned for mutiny. Blacks have routinely mutinied in the US Army while this has never happened with white units.
    , @Alfred
    Dan Kurt,

    Quite correct. BTW, "askari" is a Turkish word that was imported into Arabic and means "soldier". Swahili contains many Arabic words.

    In a similar vein, in Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, the British would make a Northern Sudanese officer in charge of Egyptian troops. His second-in-command would be an Egyptian who would do all the paperwork and day-to-day stuff. The Sudanese commander would only take charge when there was some fighting to be done. The ordinary soldiers were terrified of him and would do as they were told. Apparently, this arrangement worked quite well.
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  23. Thomas says:

    It’s gotten less attention because aircraft crashes always happen more frequently than ship collisions, but naval aviation has been having a terrible couple of years from a safety perspective.

    https://theaviationist.com/2017/08/14/an-fa-18e-from-uss-nimitz-has-crashed-in-bahrain-its-the-11th-major-incident-involving-a-hornet-in-the-last-14-months/

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/11/marine-corps-orders-all-its-aircraft-grounded-following-deadly-crashes.html

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  24. TWS says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    I was trying to comfort a lady commenter on this blog who said her son was turned down by the Navy for admission to Annapolis because her son had a knee injury and I went over the top in my opinion of the US Navy. Now that the Bush/Obama US Navy is smashing into everything, it doesn't seem so comical.

    This is from March 2017, more relevant than ever:

    The US Navy is run by morons who can’t even run their own weapons systems. The US Navy is corrupt and deranged. The US Navy is a scam designed to enrich some bastards who should rot in hell.

     


    The Aegis Combat System must be maintained and operated by civilian electronics technicians because the stupid boobs in the US Navy are too dumb to run the damn thing. Deck Swabbing US Navy Dingbat Bastards Should Rot In Hell!

     


    John McCain is the treasonous spawn of the corrupt and vile US Navy. What more needs to be said?

     

    Civilians repairing our missile systems is nothing new. Boeing had a traveling circus of men that fixed the minute men missiles. I don’t know if they still do or not but if they don’t I bet less than half of what we have left will fire or hit the target.

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    • LOL: Charles Pewitt
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  25. George says:

    I thought the 3 guys in charge of USS Fitzgerald were white.

    Cmdr. Bryce Benson; the executive officer, Cmrd. Sean Babbitt; and Master Chief Petty Officer Brice Baldwin, seem like white guys to me.

    Cmdr Benson seems to have been a history and management major.

    http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/bryce-benson-uss-fitzgerald-commander-captain-facebook-photos-bio-family-injuries/

    After 16 years of colonial wars against barely armed opponents, the US military is no longer capable of being a top tier military. Same thing happened after Vietnam. The military had to be rebuilt. On top of that, the Navy has more ships than it it capable of operating and too many retirees to support.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Insty linked this: http://ktla.com/2017/08/17/uss-fitzgeralds-leadership-to-be-removed-from-their-duties-over-june-collision/

    "The Fitzgerald’s commanding officer, Cdr. Bryce Benson, and the executive officer, Cdr. Sean Babbiit, were both sleeping, and the master chief petty officer, Brice Baldwin, was not on the bridge at the time of collision, according to the Navy."

    And this: http://inmilitary.com/real-reason-us-navy-keeps-hitting-merchant-vessels/

    "COs don’t get to sleep in in heavy shipping waters, [that’s] just a fact."
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  26. The new Navy’s most expensive ship ever, the USS Gerald Ford aircraft carrier doesn’t have urinals. I can see the future of “Captains Mast” now. Male sailors getting accused of not putting the seat down.

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    • LOL: Abe
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  27. @Autochthon
    What qualifies as significant combat? Can you share your firsthand knowledge of it?

    I sense a hard edge to that comment, but in all fairness the US Navy hasn’t faced anything like a credible foe, in battle, since WW2, and even then rarely, after the Battle of Midway.

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    • Replies: @Rantly McTirade
    The US military hasn't had an actual win in 72 years, since August 1945. look at the record:
    Korea-draw
    Vietnam-loss
    Gulf War- a win that degenerated into a draw within six months of ending.
    Afghanistan-On the lose side of a draw.
    Iraq-draw, leaning towards a loss.
    And if you want to count small adventures like Grenada and Panama as wins, then you have to count other small adventures, like the attempted Iran hostage rescue and Somalia, as losses.
    Why do these hacks deserve any respect, especially the 'leaders' like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, etc. No better than the justly abused 'Crapversity is our stench' Casey. And the grunts and shmoes at lower levels have chosen to cast their lot with a loser outfit that's simply another giant tit of the welfare state, with no actual success at its stated mission(course thats not the true mission, now is it)-why are we near worshiping these folks? Their pay, benefits and job security are better than most of the private citizens whose taxes help fund this boondoggle. But at least the global supply chain, and dollar reserve currency status, are safe, eh.
    , @CAL2

    I sense a hard edge to that comment, but in all fairness the US Navy hasn’t faced anything like a credible foe, in battle, since WW2, and even then rarely, after the Battle of Midway.
     
    The US Navy spent the rest of 1942 after Midway in a titanic struggle with the Japanese navy around Guadalcanal. Strategically the US won that phase of the war but in most of the engagements, it was a draw or Japanese victories. However, the navy could replace its loses and kept the Japanese from recapturing the island.

    When you compare the victory at Midway to the carrier battles that followed later that year, you realize what a miraculous victory it was.
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  28. @SFG
    Depressingly, importance of position is no barrier to AA. (Arguably the commander-in-chief was an AA hire last time, though he did win the election.) I've seen it in medicine, science, etc. (You may remember Pres. Trump's prior statement on the preferred ethnicity of his accountants.) Steve's covered AA in firefighting for a while, and that's literally life-or-death. We've seen gender ideology interfere with military readiness.

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.

    Such an enlisted force does not exist. Blacks are right around 16%–pretty much at their % of young people, at most a percent or two over-represented.

    The military more or less mirrors the nation in its ethnic makeup. (The Hispanic thing has gotten harder to figure out as they’ve changed definitions in the stats I’ve seen.) Obviously in terms of sex is still skews heavily male.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Battle of Savo Island near Guadalcanal a couple of months after Midway was pretty credible: in a night fight, the US lost three cruisers and the Australians one, with the Japanese not losing a ship.

    The Battle off Samar in October 1944 was a pretty desperate fight due to Halsey falling for the Japanese feint.

    The US Navy lost a lot of ships off Okinawa in 1945 due to kamikazes.
    , @Rod1963
    The military does mirror the ethnic make up, but the blacks are highly concentrated in rear echolon units like logistics where the percentage is sky high(which is where a lot of rapes happened as well).

    Closer you get to shooting, the few there are. In some MOS's that require brains, they are non-existent for all practical purposes.

    If you don't think blacks can't revolt, you're wrong - there is a photo circulating of a bunch of current black West Pointer cadets doing the Black Panther - Black power salute after BLM was formed Must be 20 in the picture. They look like a bunch of 3rd world savages. The females were obese. They weren't disciplined either. If it was white cadets doing a stiff armed sig heil - they'd be kicked out so fast it would make your head spin.

    And once these savages get their commission God help the white troops under their command. They'll bust enlisted guys for sport.

    The thing about blacks in any organization, once they get over 12% or so, it causes problems. First off they congregate with one another - form a clique. And if they get management positions, they'll really f**k things up. On the streets a group of blacks signifies trouble. I don't care if you know one of them, in group, tribal dynamics hold sway and they revert to type. You're just some ghost or cracker to them at the point.
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  29. Tom-in-VA says:

    The rot goes back further than Obama, although he did nothing to try to fix it.

    https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017-08/collisions-part-i—what-are-root-causes

    The Navy in 2003 replaced a rigorous 12-month training course for Surface Warfare Officers with OJT and a stack of CD-ROMs. It hasn’t worked, but the officers who began their careers under that system are now executive officers or ships captains.

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    • Replies: @Dr. X

    The rot goes back further than Obama
     
    It goes back a LOT further...

    http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/95/costly-affirmative-action.htm
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  30. dearieme says:

    There’s apparently a Canadian joke that you can always recognise the USN ships because they’re the ones with the dents.

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  31. @Bleuteaux
    This is absolutely true of the officers I have met, some of whom have told me that they will never leave simply due to the benefits, which are ludicrous. But is it true of the average enlisted guy? I don't know.

    What other reason is there to join other than benefits or to get job/skills training? For the average enlisted even more so than the officers (lots of them are in it for slightly noble reasons like family tradition) Granted, there are a small contingent who probably join based on the fact that they think guns are cool and they grew up playing lots of Call of Duty…..

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Affirmative. Even in my day we had lots of aliens trying to gain citizenship (I recall a Russian, a Mexican, and two worthless females – one Viet Namese and one Haitian off the top of my head). Another fellow confessed a judge had basically told him he could join the military or go to jail awhile (he'd done something like burglary or car theft - serious enough that the court could mete out a nasty sentence but not so serious that it wasn't amenable to leniency, given his youth, if it could be sure he would face discipline preventing further shenanigans, which the military does generally provide; of course, that kind of guy is in on a waiver and assured of menial work throughout his entire first enlistment until he proves himself...).

    Most people wanted money for college, insurance (especially the women and married guys), or were just plain thirsty for prospects otherwise: low IQ but decent folks from Middletown, U.S.A., where all the industrial jobs had been shipped off to Mexico or China, Mega-Low Mart and its ilk had transformed all the retail and service gigs into dead-end, minimum-wage, name-tag jobs with no benefits, and even the agricultural work was now run by Big Ag and its mestizoid helots.

    I can think of maybe twenty of us in my squadron who gave a shit – and the douchenozzles predominating the officers' corps beat most of the enthusiasm out of even us such that maybe five re-enlisted.

    'Murrica.

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  32. Daniel H says:

    From the report on the failed certifications:

    >>The ships’ basic certifications were better, Pendleton said, but he noted that seamanship stood out as a problem area.<<

    That's akin to a long haul truck fleet saying that the drivers' certifications for operating the automatic lifts are OK, but they fall short on the actual driving of the truck.

    Sailors who can't sail ships. We ARE doomed.

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  33. @Bleuteaux
    I'm thinking Vietnam. I don't mean to discount any conflicts since then. But I think our naval dominance has been pretty well established since then.

    I accept your point.

    Those of us who have been in combat since the war in Viet Nam don’t reckon there was anything insignificant about being shot at.

    Returning to the topic: it’s true the quality of naval personnel suffer now just as they do in every other aspect of what used to be the U.S.A. With eleven carriers (and the John F. Kennedy under construction) and nine amphibious assault ships, plus all the cruisers, destroyers, submarines, frigates, and aircraft that go with them, though, that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time. I don’t know that this is a good thing; I’m more inclined lately to cheer on anything that leads to the end of the current situation and an opportunity for a new, free nation to emerge from the ashes.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    For the Navy, excluding aviators, SEALs, and corpsmen assigned to Marine units, I'd say it hasn't seen significant combat since WW2. And by significant I mean facing ships capable of sinking its ships.
    , @dearieme
    "that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time": depends who it's asked to fight. Those huge aircraft carriers may prove to be as obsolete as battleships during WWII if ever a war is fought against a country less raggedy-arsed than recent opponents.

    Submarines presumably aren't obsolete: perhaps all surface ships are.
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  34. Dr. X says:
    @Autochthon
    What qualifies as significant combat? Can you share your firsthand knowledge of it?

    What qualifies as significant combat?

    Oh, I’d say having a kamikaze crash through your flight deck into your hangar deck and turning your carrier into an inferno… getting torpedoed below the waterline, abandoning ship and having hundreds of crewmen eaten by sharks… getting attacked by multiple squadrons of enemy aircraft at 7 a.m. Sunday morning while anchored in your home port, and having your crippled battleship capsize while men are trapped below decks to die a slow death of starvation and lack of oxygen because you have no means to rescue them… you know, stuff like that — and more — that happened in World War II.

    No, the Navy hasn’t seen significant combat in OVER fifty years.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?
    , @Olorin
    You're talking about my dad's Navy...

    ...and you left out the part about having the smashed hull towed to ServRon10 afterward for repairs, and having to dig out from belowdecks chunks of slimy rotting flesh mixed with shit, metal, and bilgewater, and treat them with due respect while trying not to barf all over them or drop a festering bit or run screaming from the job.

    My father's dearest hope when he died of asbestos at age 59 was that no Navy man would have to face that sort of combat ever again. And that "heroism" would be defined by other achievements...like restoring this republic's independence and sense of destiny.

    He didn't have a lot of schooling but he, his brother, and their father (my GF) damn well knew where those wars originated. "Significant combat" as you use the term means the kind of extreme mechanized and propagandized trauma that the purveyors of war and profit lay on men like my dad, and his family, to distract us from how they gained their fortunes.

    And will continue so long as they value lucre and shekels above all things and we continue to think the ability of our people to die or kill grotesquely in huge numbers is the sine qua non of heroism.

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  35. Ed says:
    @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    I don’t even think the KKK is this white these days.

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    • Replies: @JW Bell
    The new SEAL slogan "Whiter than the KKK."
    , @Mr. Anon

    I don’t even think the KKK is this white these days.
     
    Yeah, the FBI are really letting their standards slip.
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  36. @AnotherDad

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.
     
    Such an enlisted force does not exist. Blacks are right around 16%--pretty much at their % of young people, at most a percent or two over-represented.

    The military more or less mirrors the nation in its ethnic makeup. (The Hispanic thing has gotten harder to figure out as they've changed definitions in the stats I've seen.) Obviously in terms of sex is still skews heavily male.

    Battle of Savo Island near Guadalcanal a couple of months after Midway was pretty credible: in a night fight, the US lost three cruisers and the Australians one, with the Japanese not losing a ship.

    The Battle off Samar in October 1944 was a pretty desperate fight due to Halsey falling for the Japanese feint.

    The US Navy lost a lot of ships off Okinawa in 1945 due to kamikazes.

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    • Replies: @Ian
    All the post-Midway naval battles around Guadalcanal - the two major carrier battles, the five major surface engagements, and all the smaller engagements - were spicy affairs between evenly matched enemies, resulting in lots of confusion, fire, and dead bodies.

    Yes the kamikazes off Okinawa in 1945 were no joke, to the tune of 5,000 dead, many ships sunk, and many more sent back to the West Coast for lengthy repairs.

    U boats continued to be a real threat in the Atlantic until 1944 and perhaps 1945.

    But since WW2 ended, yes; air strike pilots aside, the US navy faced, by my estimate, mostly Vietnamese and Nork torpedo boats, Druse artillery batteries, and Iranian and Somali pirate speedboats.
    , @Pat Boyle
    This is creepy. I read the post that you responded to and went to the bathroom. While I was doing my business I thought about the battle of Savo Island and then I thought about Halsey's error.

    I come back to the computer and find you have posted on exactly what I had been musing upon. So if you are going to continue to think my thoughts just before I think them, there is not much point in me thinking at all. Is there?

    Now turning off my brain. Click.
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  37. An earlier leadership failure led to the capture at gunpoint of two (!) smaller US Navy ships in the Persian Gulf; the regrettable humiliation and emotional breakdown of the crew, who were forced to make propaganda broadcasts about the wicked ways of the American hegemony; and even the mandatory wearing of proper Islamic headgear by the female members thereof… ostensibly for violating Iranian territorial waters. And all this even before the Obamazoids shipped many pallets loaded with US dollars and Swiss francs to the mullahs with love! But on my Wal-Mart Chinese bicycle I have a bottom-of-the line GPS device with 5 meter positional accuracy. WTF!?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Commander Rasch was relieved of his command and reassigned following that debacle, which is shameful – he should have been relieved of his commission.

    The lieutenant in command of the boats – they were CB-90s, littoral craft, not ships by any means! – should have been court-martialed for surrendering his vessel. You NEVER do that. Never.

    To be fair, the whole thing was brought on by engine trouble causing them to drift into Iranian waters, so I suppose we are back to bad maintenance as the ultimate cause. Nevertheless, that lieutenant's foolishness (cowardice?) was the proximate cause: protocol would be to radio for immediate air support (as soon as the engines failed in proximity to territorial waters!) and continue negotiations with the Iranian vessels hailing them; it should not have taken more than fifteen minutes for a few Seahawks bristling with Hellfires to show up, followed very quickly by a enough hornets or harriers to make the Iranians remember their manners with utmost celerity.

    Then, too, maybe that protocol was followed and the help wasn't sent because of Obamite, retarded rules of engagement? I haven't done as much reaearch into the investigations and aftermath as I probably should. No matter: you NEVER surrender your vessel. Never.

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  38. It’s too bad Obama wasn’t on one of these ships steered by a diversity recruit. In software we call that “eat your own dog food”.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Actually I eat my own dog food often. That's because I buy fresh chicken for my little dog at the supermarket. I cook it in the microwave oven. He loves it and it is hardly much more money than commercial dog food. When I run out of meat I take some of the dog's and fry it up.

    My puppy is a Papillion - a very small dog. If I had a full size dog I probably couldn't do this.

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  39. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anon
    I find it mystifying that Derbyshire and Sailer haven't yet commented on the irony of the US elite doing everything possible to turn their country into a version of China.

    China:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses and large corporations police speech, giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of China are obliterated or suppressed (Tibet)

    5. Obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: Taiwan, some worthless islands claimed by the Japanese, etc.

    US circa 2030:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America's official party - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses, NGOs, and large corporations police speech: Apple, ADL/SPLC, Cloudflare, Goolag, YouTube, Twitter, etc. - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of the Democrats are obliterated or suppressed (White Caucasians)

    5. obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: endless Middle Eastern wars.

    The idea that the third world is unironically the goal is not new or original, though I am more used to seeing comparisons to Mexico or Brazil. Perhaps Derb is prevented from this particular iteration by knowing extenuating details about China.
    While I surely know a lot less than him, I have trouble with your idea on this point: China is a little left-over imperialism away from being one of the purest and largest ethno-states on Earth. While the low-level Han fully expect to be crushed by the juggernaut, it’s their juggernaut. There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren’t impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway). These points are totally incompatible with our doom from dissolution and our genocidally hostile elites. There are no small towns in rural … uhhh … Jiangsu, which are being forced to accept whole communities of Somalis or Chicagfricans, specifically to disrupt their unforgivable purity. In fact, nakedly racist rioting and lynch mobs are alive and well in China, and the government doesn’t really mind them all that much.
    A lot of your other points are good but they do not gain anything by specifying China as opposed to your standard third world hellhole. I think the tldr is: the target is not white skin per se, the target is anything Blackstone or Maitland or Madison would recognize as English legal or governmental tradition. I have been saying that Obama and Holder were bringing in Chinese legal thinking, eg, ditching no ex post facto in favoring of non-enforcement of any laws they didn’t like, but nevertheless leaving those laws on the books just in case you change your mind. That’s what the Chinese did to their first modern import-export trade advisor.

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    • Replies: @Melon_McDeepstate
    That's the thing though, Western elites have absolutely zero appreciation for the monolithic enthnostate aspect of China and how this allows the Chinese system to be uniquely successful in it's narrowly defined set of goals. All Western elites know is that they want the power and control China's elites got and they want it NOW. China with more democratic window dressing is the model. Of course what they'll get is something more like a wobbly, uncontrollable garbage heap like Brazil.
    , @basque british are small brained
    It is so so annoying that there are so many small brained british from the broad british diaspora who think they know so much about china, you guys know squat about china so just stop trying to fraternise with us, we know what your up to you race mixing degenerates and bad immunity people,we dont wanna race mix with inferior people, because half the kids will get the inferior R1b with its ugly skin and curly hair ,not to mention your small brains and bad immune system.So go away and mix with the black and browns, the most superior yellow skinned people are out of your league.
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  40. Dr. X says:
    @Tom-in-VA
    The rot goes back further than Obama, although he did nothing to try to fix it.

    https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017-08/collisions-part-i—what-are-root-causes

    The Navy in 2003 replaced a rigorous 12-month training course for Surface Warfare Officers with OJT and a stack of CD-ROMs. It hasn't worked, but the officers who began their careers under that system are now executive officers or ships captains.

    The rot goes back further than Obama

    It goes back a LOT further…

    http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/95/costly-affirmative-action.htm

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  41. Kapaa says:

    I don’t think it’s affirmative action. Its the iron laws of bureaucracy, slowly strangling the Navy as rules get added, the people who care quit, and the ones with questionable job prospects hang in for the sweet, sweet pensions.

    It would be painfully easy to cure the current problem. Have ships travel the speed of traffic, stay within lanes, track ship locations remotely with AIS, rebuke captains who like to show their manhood by crazy maneuvering. The fact is that Naval rules encourage terrible ship driving and it takes public embarrassment to get a cultural change. I suspect military aircraft will get the same public exposure soon enough once incidents pile up.

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  42. J.Ross says: • Website

    I might bring up William Lind’s suggestion that the navy be maintained on a reserve basis, dramatically shrunk in size but keeping certain vital skills and capacities alive. Then again he also thought less than highly of the air force and was too easily impressed by the marines.
    But there is surely an attitude in our elites that getting the job done is not such a big deal, and forces from firefighters to fighter pilots can do their bit to absorb constituency hires.

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    As of 2015, "the air force's 9,000 combat pilots are at least 87% white."

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/03/air-force-diversity/26731691/

    Sounds kind of strange to have exactly 9,000 pilots and then only able to estimate "at least 87% white", but there you are.
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  43. @S. Anonyia
    What other reason is there to join other than benefits or to get job/skills training? For the average enlisted even more so than the officers (lots of them are in it for slightly noble reasons like family tradition) Granted, there are a small contingent who probably join based on the fact that they think guns are cool and they grew up playing lots of Call of Duty.....

    Affirmative. Even in my day we had lots of aliens trying to gain citizenship (I recall a Russian, a Mexican, and two worthless females – one Viet Namese and one Haitian off the top of my head). Another fellow confessed a judge had basically told him he could join the military or go to jail awhile (he’d done something like burglary or car theft – serious enough that the court could mete out a nasty sentence but not so serious that it wasn’t amenable to leniency, given his youth, if it could be sure he would face discipline preventing further shenanigans, which the military does generally provide; of course, that kind of guy is in on a waiver and assured of menial work throughout his entire first enlistment until he proves himself…).

    Most people wanted money for college, insurance (especially the women and married guys), or were just plain thirsty for prospects otherwise: low IQ but decent folks from Middletown, U.S.A., where all the industrial jobs had been shipped off to Mexico or China, Mega-Low Mart and its ilk had transformed all the retail and service gigs into dead-end, minimum-wage, name-tag jobs with no benefits, and even the agricultural work was now run by Big Ag and its mestizoid helots.

    I can think of maybe twenty of us in my squadron who gave a shit – and the douchenozzles predominating the officers’ corps beat most of the enthusiasm out of even us such that maybe five re-enlisted.

    ‘Murrica.

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    • Replies: @Off The Street

    Another fellow confessed a judge had basically told him he could join the military or go to jail awhile
     
    I worked with a guy that joined the Corps with just that judicial incentive. He called up his high school PE teacher and told him to put together a training regimen to get him through boot camp. The Marine experience helped him straighten out his life and he grew up enough in the paddies in Nam to become a Sergeant and keep his men safe. His leadership skills and street smarts helped him in business for quite a while and his staff respected him. Opportunities for today's youth pale by comparison and the country suffers as a result.
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  44. @Dr. X

    What qualifies as significant combat?
     
    Oh, I'd say having a kamikaze crash through your flight deck into your hangar deck and turning your carrier into an inferno... getting torpedoed below the waterline, abandoning ship and having hundreds of crewmen eaten by sharks... getting attacked by multiple squadrons of enemy aircraft at 7 a.m. Sunday morning while anchored in your home port, and having your crippled battleship capsize while men are trapped below decks to die a slow death of starvation and lack of oxygen because you have no means to rescue them... you know, stuff like that -- and more -- that happened in World War II.

    No, the Navy hasn't seen significant combat in OVER fifty years.

    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?

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    • Replies: @Dr. X

    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?
     
    I sure was... we both met your mother in a Subic Bay whorehouse.
    , @Chris Mallory
    What naval combat have we faced in the Philippines since WWII? It was used as an R&R base during VN.
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  45. JamesA says:

    It’s worth noting that the push for women in combat roles is not because the rank and file are knocking down the doors of jobs for line troops, but because the privileged few women west pointers resent that they will never be chief of staff of the army without a combat leadership role.

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    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Is that worth noting or are you just reflexively using an inappropriate phrase? Your unargued note is deeply unsatisfying. It seems to me that the push for female combatants is perfectly explained by the political conspiracy theory described above, ie, their goal isn't modern Amazons, it's unironically ruin, after an equally logical bit of posturing and providing jobs for constituents.
    Difficulty: while I was in I knew multiple women who wanted to be in combat roles and were pretty vocal about it. Few were officers and none was interested in being chief of staff. (One or two might actually have not totally embarassed themselves in a combat role.) Since when are promotion-hungry officers a major voice in national policy? It seems to me they would have very little influence, whereas the thoroughly non-controversial and undoubted other groups -- activists, politicians, bureaucrats, all of whom outrank or efffectively outrank future chiefs of staff -- are clearly more important. Even in the decapitated Trump White House, these idiot traitor generals are only so powerful because Trump has a major military-worship blind spot and let them decapitate him. Under LBJ we might not know their names.
    , @SteveRogers42
    The two female-ish specimens they slid through Ranger School were ringknockers.
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  46. JW Bell says:
    @Ed
    I don't even think the KKK is this white these days.

    The new SEAL slogan “Whiter than the KKK.”

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    It's hard to find the stats, but the latest I've seen describe the SEAL officer corps as 1% black, and the enlisted SEAL ranks as 2% black.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/05/diversity-seals-green-berets/31122851/

    The vibrancy rates in Army SF are a bit higher, and the USAF Pararescue has exactly one (1) black PJ.
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  47. @Anon
    I find it mystifying that Derbyshire and Sailer haven't yet commented on the irony of the US elite doing everything possible to turn their country into a version of China.

    China:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses and large corporations police speech, giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of China are obliterated or suppressed (Tibet)

    5. Obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: Taiwan, some worthless islands claimed by the Japanese, etc.

    US circa 2030:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America's official party - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses, NGOs, and large corporations police speech: Apple, ADL/SPLC, Cloudflare, Goolag, YouTube, Twitter, etc. - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of the Democrats are obliterated or suppressed (White Caucasians)

    5. obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: endless Middle Eastern wars.

    You make great points, but I think that the Democrats are overplaying their hand substantially. I think that the following three scenarios are all far more likely than Democrat single-party rule akin to what Singapore, Japan and Sweden have experienced:
    - The Republicans actually succeed in attracting Latinos.
    - The Democratic party splits.
    - The United States breaks up.

    The Republican party is a disaster of its own; but the hubris, incompetence, and general insanity of the Democratic party became obvious to all who would see a year ago. It was not just Trump. The Democrats were trounced at every level.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The continued stability of the US likely depends on an immigration moratorium, which must be passed over the virulent objections of the Hispanic/Asian/Jewish ethnic lobbies. We will need a sizable minority of those groups to make peace with white identity politics. I suspect that a populist GOP running on a record of 4% growth could get 20-25% of the black vote on a much reduced turnout, potentially winning Illinois.

    If the GOP wants to keep winning elections, it needs to attack the Silicon Dons and break up their monopolies.
    , @cynthia curran
    Probably true, Latinos are more working class and some don't like the competition in the job market from Mexico. Dems started to go the Antifa route which turns off a lot of middle class folks.Also, Trump's limiting illegal immigration is working since California of all places grew much higher in wages in the first quarter. This means heavily Hispanic Riverside which voted less than 10 for Clinton has a chance to pick up on Republicans in the next 5 years. More Middle class whites and Latino leave LA and OC for Riverside.
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  48. The Navy is corrupt, or at least the 7th Fleet is corrupt.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/admiral-seven-others-charged-with-corruption-in-new-fat-leonard-indictment/2017/03/14/faf01600-08da-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.bda50d1716d1

    30 Admirals under investigation. Multiple officers arrested or indicted. 10 current or former naval officers have already pleaded guilty.

    A fish rots from the head down.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    By the Eternal! Have they still not finished unearthing all the corruption from that Fat Leonard character and his lot?!

    (I would like the record to reflect I served in the Atlantic Fleet.)
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  49. @Autochthon
    Affirmative. Even in my day we had lots of aliens trying to gain citizenship (I recall a Russian, a Mexican, and two worthless females – one Viet Namese and one Haitian off the top of my head). Another fellow confessed a judge had basically told him he could join the military or go to jail awhile (he'd done something like burglary or car theft - serious enough that the court could mete out a nasty sentence but not so serious that it wasn't amenable to leniency, given his youth, if it could be sure he would face discipline preventing further shenanigans, which the military does generally provide; of course, that kind of guy is in on a waiver and assured of menial work throughout his entire first enlistment until he proves himself...).

    Most people wanted money for college, insurance (especially the women and married guys), or were just plain thirsty for prospects otherwise: low IQ but decent folks from Middletown, U.S.A., where all the industrial jobs had been shipped off to Mexico or China, Mega-Low Mart and its ilk had transformed all the retail and service gigs into dead-end, minimum-wage, name-tag jobs with no benefits, and even the agricultural work was now run by Big Ag and its mestizoid helots.

    I can think of maybe twenty of us in my squadron who gave a shit – and the douchenozzles predominating the officers' corps beat most of the enthusiasm out of even us such that maybe five re-enlisted.

    'Murrica.

    Another fellow confessed a judge had basically told him he could join the military or go to jail awhile

    I worked with a guy that joined the Corps with just that judicial incentive. He called up his high school PE teacher and told him to put together a training regimen to get him through boot camp. The Marine experience helped him straighten out his life and he grew up enough in the paddies in Nam to become a Sergeant and keep his men safe. His leadership skills and street smarts helped him in business for quite a while and his staff respected him. Opportunities for today’s youth pale by comparison and the country suffers as a result.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  50. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @SFG
    OT, but did anybody notice Emily Yoffe's articles on college rape in the Atlantic?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-campus-rape-policy/538974/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-bad-science-behind-campus-response-to-sexual-assault/539211/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-question-of-race-in-campus-sexual-assault-cases/539361/

    She's been arguing due process is being trampled on for a while (shortly before, ah, leaving Slate)...but after doing two nicely argued articles taking on the due process issue and debunking the science...she ends by pointing out that, ah, minorities are hit hardest.

    I admire the bit of SJW jujitsu. Whatever your views on this (some of you might no doubt be willing to tolerate the current regime if it protects white women), it raises the possibility of an interesting countermeasure to SJW advances where liberals are strong. If you can show some SJW advance damages another protected group, you might be able to slow them down.

    I think that is actually it. Their positions are simply incoherent. They might not care about logical incoherence as such, but they do care when a victim group is victimized. The more victim groups attain some degree of actual power, the more members of one victim group are going to be victimized by others. (It won’t always be victim groups from the same category: more likely gays will victimize blacks, and blacks will victimize gays, etc.) In principle it will be possible to blame the dwindling number of “Christian” cishet white men, but that is useless on the practical level, since they will still need to decide what the “official” view on any given issue is, and increasingly victim groups will lose either way.

    They will lose. I have no doubt of that. THAT boot won’t be stomping on the human face forever. The harder question is what comes after.

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  51. Abe says: • Website

    YAAAAAS QUEEN! (that photo)

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  52. @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    An earlier leadership failure led to the capture at gunpoint of two (!) smaller US Navy ships in the Persian Gulf; the regrettable humiliation and emotional breakdown of the crew, who were forced to make propaganda broadcasts about the wicked ways of the American hegemony; and even the mandatory wearing of proper Islamic headgear by the female members thereof... ostensibly for violating Iranian territorial waters. And all this even before the Obamazoids shipped many pallets loaded with US dollars and Swiss francs to the mullahs with love! But on my Wal-Mart Chinese bicycle I have a bottom-of-the line GPS device with 5 meter positional accuracy. WTF!?

    Commander Rasch was relieved of his command and reassigned following that debacle, which is shameful – he should have been relieved of his commission.

    The lieutenant in command of the boats – they were CB-90s, littoral craft, not ships by any means! – should have been court-martialed for surrendering his vessel. You NEVER do that. Never.

    To be fair, the whole thing was brought on by engine trouble causing them to drift into Iranian waters, so I suppose we are back to bad maintenance as the ultimate cause. Nevertheless, that lieutenant’s foolishness (cowardice?) was the proximate cause: protocol would be to radio for immediate air support (as soon as the engines failed in proximity to territorial waters!) and continue negotiations with the Iranian vessels hailing them; it should not have taken more than fifteen minutes for a few Seahawks bristling with Hellfires to show up, followed very quickly by a enough hornets or harriers to make the Iranians remember their manners with utmost celerity.

    Then, too, maybe that protocol was followed and the help wasn’t sent because of Obamite, retarded rules of engagement? I haven’t done as much reaearch into the investigations and aftermath as I probably should. No matter: you NEVER surrender your vessel. Never.

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    • Replies: @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    A sailboat 52 ft LOA displacing 18 tons could be credibly called a "small ship", but yeah, fair enough. The point was that how could the officer in charge not have known exactly their positions —given the extreme political risk of entering Iranian territorial waters— in the era of $75 GPS devices made for cyclists and hikers having 5 m locational accuracy. (Presumably the crew also had personal smartphones with navigation packages.) Between the two vessels, there were four 625 bhp diesel engines and two pairs of Ma Deuces.
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  53. Hibernian says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    The United States military is being destroyed by anti-White race quotas and anti-White diversity.

    General Leprechaun Casey said the Ft. Hood Islamic terrorist attack by an Islamic terrorist US military officer was tragic, but Casey said what would be even more tragic would be if wonderful diversity in the US military was wounded. At least a dozen were killed and many more were wounded by an Islamic terrorist and all General Leprechaun Casey would do was shrug his shoulders.

    The first commander of the Navy Commodore John Barry was also a Leprechaun. As was Phil Sheridan.

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  54. J.Ross says: • Website
    @JamesA
    It's worth noting that the push for women in combat roles is not because the rank and file are knocking down the doors of jobs for line troops, but because the privileged few women west pointers resent that they will never be chief of staff of the army without a combat leadership role.

    Is that worth noting or are you just reflexively using an inappropriate phrase? Your unargued note is deeply unsatisfying. It seems to me that the push for female combatants is perfectly explained by the political conspiracy theory described above, ie, their goal isn’t modern Amazons, it’s unironically ruin, after an equally logical bit of posturing and providing jobs for constituents.
    Difficulty: while I was in I knew multiple women who wanted to be in combat roles and were pretty vocal about it. Few were officers and none was interested in being chief of staff. (One or two might actually have not totally embarassed themselves in a combat role.) Since when are promotion-hungry officers a major voice in national policy? It seems to me they would have very little influence, whereas the thoroughly non-controversial and undoubted other groups — activists, politicians, bureaucrats, all of whom outrank or efffectively outrank future chiefs of staff — are clearly more important. Even in the decapitated Trump White House, these idiot traitor generals are only so powerful because Trump has a major military-worship blind spot and let them decapitate him. Under LBJ we might not know their names.

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  55. @cwhatfuture
    The Navy is corrupt, or at least the 7th Fleet is corrupt.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/admiral-seven-others-charged-with-corruption-in-new-fat-leonard-indictment/2017/03/14/faf01600-08da-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.bda50d1716d1

    30 Admirals under investigation. Multiple officers arrested or indicted. 10 current or former naval officers have already pleaded guilty.

    A fish rots from the head down.

    By the Eternal! Have they still not finished unearthing all the corruption from that Fat Leonard character and his lot?!

    (I would like the record to reflect I served in the Atlantic Fleet.)

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    • Replies: @Cwhatfuture
    Apparently they have not finished with Fat Leonard and his lot. Seems like there is a very long way to go before they hit bottom. And if Fat Leonard could pull this off, what are the chances the Chinese haven't completely penetrated the fleet?

    (Hats off to your service)
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  56. @JW Bell
    The new SEAL slogan "Whiter than the KKK."

    It’s hard to find the stats, but the latest I’ve seen describe the SEAL officer corps as 1% black, and the enlisted SEAL ranks as 2% black.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/05/diversity-seals-green-berets/31122851/

    The vibrancy rates in Army SF are a bit higher, and the USAF Pararescue has exactly one (1) black PJ.

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  57. @Anon
    I find it mystifying that Derbyshire and Sailer haven't yet commented on the irony of the US elite doing everything possible to turn their country into a version of China.

    China:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses and large corporations police speech, giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of China are obliterated or suppressed (Tibet)

    5. Obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: Taiwan, some worthless islands claimed by the Japanese, etc.

    US circa 2030:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America's official party - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses, NGOs, and large corporations police speech: Apple, ADL/SPLC, Cloudflare, Goolag, YouTube, Twitter, etc. - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of the Democrats are obliterated or suppressed (White Caucasians)

    5. obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: endless Middle Eastern wars.

    Good comment, Anon, but I think your 2030 date is off a bit. On this especially,

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America’s official party – giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists.

    I think you are late by 50 years or so, as we have been a one-party system since at least the mid-1990′s. You may be getting confused by those 2 colors they use on the map. Those just represent the Red and Blue wings of the party – they have different mascots and what they call “platforms” to keep things fun. However, both wings of The Party are taking American straight to hell.

    I have no more comment. Thanks.

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  58. Ian says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Battle of Savo Island near Guadalcanal a couple of months after Midway was pretty credible: in a night fight, the US lost three cruisers and the Australians one, with the Japanese not losing a ship.

    The Battle off Samar in October 1944 was a pretty desperate fight due to Halsey falling for the Japanese feint.

    The US Navy lost a lot of ships off Okinawa in 1945 due to kamikazes.

    All the post-Midway naval battles around Guadalcanal – the two major carrier battles, the five major surface engagements, and all the smaller engagements – were spicy affairs between evenly matched enemies, resulting in lots of confusion, fire, and dead bodies.

    Yes the kamikazes off Okinawa in 1945 were no joke, to the tune of 5,000 dead, many ships sunk, and many more sent back to the West Coast for lengthy repairs.

    U boats continued to be a real threat in the Atlantic until 1944 and perhaps 1945.

    But since WW2 ended, yes; air strike pilots aside, the US navy faced, by my estimate, mostly Vietnamese and Nork torpedo boats, Druse artillery batteries, and Iranian and Somali pirate speedboats.

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    • Replies: @Simon in London
    Has any Western navy lost ships in battle since the 1982 Falklands War? I recall the Israelis lost a small ship to a Hezbollah missile in the 2006 war; I can't recall *anyone* losing a ship in battle since then.
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  59. lavoisier says: • Website

    Do we know that diversity had anything to do with these crashes?

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  60. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “I have trouble with your idea on this point: China is a little left-over imperialism away from being one of the purest and largest ethno-states on Earth. While the low-level Han fully expect to be crushed by the juggernaut, it’s their juggernaut. There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren’t impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway). These points are totally incompatible with our doom from dissolution and our genocidally hostile elites. ”

    The difference is really not that significant. In the end, the ruling classes of both countries desire the same result: unchallenged power for themselves. The circumstances are different, but the end result is the same: one-party rule and the masses controlled by an upperclass that has outsourced the controlling part to themselves and their friends – corporations, businesses, the entertainment industry, and the media. When that doesn’t work, they use the government and then the military.

    It’s a bit like a state equation in physics. The path is irrelevant, just the difference between final and initial. A bowling ball’s potential energy does not depend on the path taken to a higher location. The only thing that matters is how high off the ground it is in the end. A similar analogy applies to the USA/China – different circumstances but same tactics and the same desired end result by both parties.

    “In fact, nakedly racist rioting and lynch mobs are alive and well in China, and the government doesn’t really mind them all that much.”

    They are alive in the US as well and the government really doesn’t mind that much because they direct their energies at the enemies of the ruling class. The elite sicked mobs of racists on innocent Trump supporters throughout the campaign, blamed President Trump for the violence the media created with their rhetoric, sometimes condoned it, or even covered it up when it wasn’t convenient for them (Dallas BLM terrorist attack).

    “A lot of your other points are good but they do not gain anything by specifying China as opposed to your standard third world hellhole.”

    China is a good example, and the irony going forward was too good to pass up (the future autocratic “Free World” versus autocratic China in effort to make the world safe for democracy). There may also be parallels with Russia and maybe Venezuela. But China is a clear example Americans can understand (and find on a map).

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    • Replies: @Wilkey
    There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren’t impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway).

    Chinese people can be very ethnocentric, but they also seem to be very good at looking after numero uno. They are fiercely competitive even with each other. Perhaps that's why they've never been especially imperialistic or expansionist. You have to be selfless enough to want to die for the greater good. None of the model minority groups (Chinese, Indians, Jews) seem to want to join the military in any great numbers.

    The Japanese, OTOH, seem to be the more civic-minded, "crash my plane into this troop transport for the glory of the nation" types. So it is a bit more complicated than Oriental vs. Occidental.
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  61. Dr. X says:
    @Autochthon
    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?

    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?

    I sure was… we both met your mother in a Subic Bay whorehouse.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    For you to've been in the Philippines when my father was means you must be over ninety, which explains the dementia. Perhaps you need your diaper changed and some nice tapioca pudding to make you less grouchy.

    If that's not it, then let's meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.
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  62. @Autochthon
    By the Eternal! Have they still not finished unearthing all the corruption from that Fat Leonard character and his lot?!

    (I would like the record to reflect I served in the Atlantic Fleet.)

    Apparently they have not finished with Fat Leonard and his lot. Seems like there is a very long way to go before they hit bottom. And if Fat Leonard could pull this off, what are the chances the Chinese haven’t completely penetrated the fleet?

    (Hats off to your service)

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  63. @George
    I thought the 3 guys in charge of USS Fitzgerald were white.

    Cmdr. Bryce Benson; the executive officer, Cmrd. Sean Babbitt; and Master Chief Petty Officer Brice Baldwin, seem like white guys to me.

    Cmdr Benson seems to have been a history and management major.

    http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/bryce-benson-uss-fitzgerald-commander-captain-facebook-photos-bio-family-injuries/

    After 16 years of colonial wars against barely armed opponents, the US military is no longer capable of being a top tier military. Same thing happened after Vietnam. The military had to be rebuilt. On top of that, the Navy has more ships than it it capable of operating and too many retirees to support.

    Insty linked this: http://ktla.com/2017/08/17/uss-fitzgeralds-leadership-to-be-removed-from-their-duties-over-june-collision/

    “The Fitzgerald’s commanding officer, Cdr. Bryce Benson, and the executive officer, Cdr. Sean Babbiit, were both sleeping, and the master chief petty officer, Brice Baldwin, was not on the bridge at the time of collision, according to the Navy.”

    And this: http://inmilitary.com/real-reason-us-navy-keeps-hitting-merchant-vessels/

    “COs don’t get to sleep in in heavy shipping waters, [that’s] just a fact.”

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    • Replies: @George
    " both sleeping"

    It worse, since the Cdr was injured in the collision it would appear he was sleeping in his 'in port' stateroom type birth, not the 'at sea' cabin near the bridge. But even if all three officers were off the bridge, the crew should still have been able to operate the ship. It is a fighting ship which should imagine substantial casualties among the officers. And American sailors are not supposed to be ignorant peons.

    I mean, you just can't expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys. - Gen. Turgidson, from Dr Strangelove

    It is also not just 2 incidents. USS Antietam grounding and the most embarrassing of all the USS Guardian grounding and destruction of a coral reef. To mitigate the damage to the reef Guardian was dismantled at sea.

    The US no longer has a maritime tradition, so the Navy can no longer find crews among US nationals that know ships. The Navy needs fewer ships. The ships have become employment programs too. Fitzgerald had a crew of 300, while her nemisis Crystal had 30.
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  64. Rod1963 says:
    @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    Even the conventional combat units are mostly white, you won’t find blacks in them. If you watch the National Geographic specials on the Afghanistan fighting, it’s mostly white guys with a smattering of Hispanics.

    Clinton hated that and I suspect so did Obama – that high concentration of highly trained and lethal whites. I also suspect they hated the fact that once those men left the service(especially the snipers) they just become part of the crowd.

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    • Replies: @ATX Hipster

    Even the conventional combat units are mostly white, you won’t find blacks in them
     
    Not quite true, but not too far off. Army infantry is ~85% white, and units get whiter with more barriers to entry, e.g. airborne units are whiter than leg units. SOF units are whiter still.
    , @bomag

    I also suspect they hated the fact that once those men left the service(especially the snipers) they just become part of the crowd.
     
    I didn't follow it, but wasn't there a suggestion under O to monitor discharged servicemen?
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  65. @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    Why do those Hessians have their eyes blacked out?
    Really, if they’re such bad mofo’s they shouldn’t have to hide their identity, like antifa or the klan.
    Or perhaps they realize that their activities have absolutely nothing to do with the best interests of the nation or the vast majority of American citizens, and that even the dullards that dominate the nation’s populace will eventually realize this and quit ‘supporting’(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I think the idea is to prevent U.S.-based ISIS fans from targeting their families here.
    , @anonymous coward

    ...even the dullards that dominate the nation’s populace will eventually realize this and quit ‘supporting’(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.
     
    When exactly this happened during USSR's collapse, it turned out that 'real jobs' for these dudes involve various flavors of organized crime.

    Not a good situation.
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  66. Tiny Duck says:

    The weak genes of white men will not exist in 50 years

    We will soon be a Black planet

    SUCK IT

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    • Replies: @Monopoly
    All the way, NBA...
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  67. @International Jew
    I sense a hard edge to that comment, but in all fairness the US Navy hasn't faced anything like a credible foe, in battle, since WW2, and even then rarely, after the Battle of Midway.

    The US military hasn’t had an actual win in 72 years, since August 1945. look at the record:
    Korea-draw
    Vietnam-loss
    Gulf War- a win that degenerated into a draw within six months of ending.
    Afghanistan-On the lose side of a draw.
    Iraq-draw, leaning towards a loss.
    And if you want to count small adventures like Grenada and Panama as wins, then you have to count other small adventures, like the attempted Iran hostage rescue and Somalia, as losses.
    Why do these hacks deserve any respect, especially the ‘leaders’ like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, etc. No better than the justly abused ‘Crapversity is our stench’ Casey. And the grunts and shmoes at lower levels have chosen to cast their lot with a loser outfit that’s simply another giant tit of the welfare state, with no actual success at its stated mission(course thats not the true mission, now is it)-why are we near worshiping these folks? Their pay, benefits and job security are better than most of the private citizens whose taxes help fund this boondoggle. But at least the global supply chain, and dollar reserve currency status, are safe, eh.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You misunderstand the situation; check your premises. The military of what used to he the U.S.A. hasn't been actually engaged in any conflicts any military can meaningfully win, nor has it been permitted (by the civilian government, by the flag officers, or both) to meaningfully fight even those conflicts in those years.

    The situations in Korea and Viet Nam were examples of lack of political will to engage whole-hog. The situations in Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of wars that were won as much as they could be: the invasions were successes (the opposing militaries were routed and the governments deposed), but the ensuing occupations failed because one can only govern savages savagely, and the leaders were too squamish to do so. All four theatres are examples of dopey adventures which couldn't be "won" because they did not meaningfully implicate the defence of what used to be the U.S.A. (Please don't cite terrorism: meaningful defence and response to terrorism hardly involves the military, and it is very easy: don't let terrorists, or anyone with the slightest possibility of being terrorists – i.e., Mohammedans – into the place. If subterfuge foils even this policy, don't let any one into the place: what used to be the U.S.A. needs absolutely zero immigration; indeed any immigration at all is detrimental, nevermind terrorism.)

    In any event, victory is not measured by successful colonisation. I hereby resurrect my own point that Reagan's handling of Libya (and, come to that, Truman's of Japan) should be lodestones: "You've behaved unacceptably, therefore we have killed a lot of you and broken a lot of your stuff. We don't much give a damn what you do with yourselves, but you'll not bother us again. If you do, we will be back, and we will kill even more of you and break even more of your stuff. If you keep it up because you think you are cute, we will turn your capital into a shiny piece of glass, and that will be that."

    This nonsense about "winning the peace" and "nation-building" is just that.

    , @Hibernian
    "Gulf War- a win that degenerated into a draw within six months of ending."

    Will Rogers, presumably pre-Korea (I think he died in a plane crash in the mid '30s.) said we never lost a war and never won a peace conference. It was mainly, I think, a reference to WWI and Vesailles.
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  68. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “I think that the following three scenarios are all far more likely than Democrat single-party rule akin to what Singapore, Japan and Sweden have experienced:

    - The Republicans actually succeed in attracting Latinos.”

    Won’t happen. The black population is pretty stagnant in terms of growth, so, instead of the GOP attracting Latino votes by pegging the democrats as “the black party”, Latinos will figure they can just take over the democratic party with their higher population growth. Blacks are unlikely to form a separate party because they lack the ability to properly fundraise. They will be content being a solid base for the democrats because they will retain majority status in many current democrat-voting areas for many decades hence.

    “- The Democratic party splits.”

    Not likely.

    1. State laws actively discriminate against third parties, making a two party system almost inevitable.

    2. People naturally gravitate towards “us versus them” party systems. Even in Europe, where many countries technically field multiple parties, there are usually just two very large parties vying for power – and as soon as one has governed long enough, the third parties get devastated as defectors swing to another party in coalition voting. This phenomenon actually led to David Cameron’s election sweep, majority government and liberal democrat devastation. It also led to Theresa May’s near-election defeat as some who might have otherwise voted third party voted Labour. This effect alone will keep the Democratic party alive well after its expiration date.

    3. Whites will be a large enough segment of the population to make “us versus them” attractive for non-whites well into this century.

    4. It hasn’t yet happened in California – a bellwether due to its demographics – so I see no reason to suspect that it will happen in the nation at large for the foreseeable future.

    “- The United States breaks up.”

    Probably not…unfortunately.

    1. Too many patriotards and not enough white ethnic loyalty. Only whites will want to break away, and that is almost impossible as it is due to a lack of solidarity. Minority areas that depend upon white welfare won’t, despite whatever they may say publicly (CalExit – in fact, a small comic company publishes a comic entitled “CalExit” and the last issue sold a pathetic 8K copies in a country with a population of over 300 million).

    2. That’s what the elite has the military for.

    3. The security apparatus will use technology to identify and thwart potential troublemakers before the military is ever needed. The ruling class will use its media assets to make a few examples out of some loser stupid enough to defy them, scaring off the rest. For example, virtually all of those Charlottesville pro-statue protesters were doxed and later fired from their jobs. There will be no more large rallies like that again for the right. Google then banned several websites and Cloudflare followed suit for their services, too. Lesson learned.

    4. There is no historical precedent for it in the white world. Cowardly, and short-sighted, whites in Rhodesia and South Africa rolled over and let themselves become a hated minority. In former-Rhodesia, whites were chased out and their lands stolen while they were beaten, raped, and killed. The same is beginning to happen in South Africa (they have a president who is talking about seizing white farm lands and who proudly sings “death to the Boer/death to the white man.”)

    The US won’t get as bad as South Africa and Zimbabwe because blacks will never be a majority of the US population, but it will get really bad none-the-less as blacks and non-whites are empowered to seek payback for perceived historical slights and out of sheer jealousy for white accomplishments. You can expect some form of reparations, an endless continuation of section 8, more affirmative action, further demands for “diversity” (non-whites) in all media, increased historical revisionism (Hidden Figures, Red Tails), and an unending series of witch hunts against whites as a means of racial payback — see the latest PewDiePie scandal.

    5. There is no realistic secessionist movement the American South, the only place that is of any real concern for splitting off due to residual white solidarity (all other regions never will for various reasons, including lack of white ethnic solidarity – North West Front is a joke, those states continually vote democrat). If the South won’t go, no one will.

    Southerners were so whipped that they let foreigners tear down their statues and even desecrate a grave site dedicated to the victims of Union War crimes committed against them. If that didn’t spur some back-reaction and a loss of confidence in the system among those people, nothing ever will until it is too late.

    Your best bet is to find another country to flee to…if there even is one at this point.

    “The Republican party is a disaster of its own; but the hubris, incompetence, and general insanity of the Democratic party became obvious to all who would see a year ago. It was not just Trump. The Democrats were trounced at every level.”

    Not really. Trump won a smaller percentage of the white vote than Romney. Clearly there are not enough whites with white solidarity to make the Dems pay in any meaningful way. In fact, the Democratic house of representatives candidates received more votes in total than the republican ones. If it were not for gerrymandering, the GOP might already be a minority in the house. Republicans may be a majority of state governors, but the combined populations of the states controlled by democrats probably equals or surpasses the combined populations of the states controlled by republicans.

    Trump’s election was a miracle that is now being squandered. I don’t see how he gets reelected under the current demographics unless the Dems nominate an openly BLM candidate or Hillary again. Trump could, of course, help himself out by going buck-wild and cancelling NAFTA and a host of other free trade agreements outright + promise free college and other government programs + withdraw from Afghanistan + lay off the warmongering with Iran…but he won’t and there are too many libertardians to make that happen because “muh constitution/muh big gub’ment/muh taxes” and too many patriotards who want to be “Murican” rather than “white.”

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  69. Wilkey says:

    A long-term priority of the Obama Administration was injecting diversity into the upper ranks of the military to seed the command structure with enough members of the Coalition of the Fringes to take care of future eventualities.

    I’ve commented on this in the past here, long before the recent Navy screw-ups. Prior to Obama only ten blacks had achieved 4 star rank in the US military – 5 in the Army, 4 in the Air Force, 1 in the Navy, 0 in the Marines. The first of them was in 1975. Only 1 woman had achieved 4 star rank, and that was only in 2008 (Ann Dunwoody).

    When Obama was inaugurated 9% of all officers and 6% of general officers (one star and above) were black. Only one of 38 four stars were black. But of the 70 people Obama appointed to four star rank eight of them (11%) were black – nearly as many as all previous presidents combined – and four of them were female (one of those was a twofer).

    It is pretty damn obvious that Obama was intentionally promoting people to four star rank merely because of their race or gender (the irony being that, sfaik, not a single damn Hispanic or Asian was promoted to four star during Obama’s tenure). God only knows what was happening with his less visible promotions to officers below 4 star rank.

    The other sad fact is to compare the people Obama was promoting to four star, where they were responsible for protecting our servicemen from unnecessary harm, to the people he chose to run his re-election campaign. Obama placed a lot less emphasis on diversity when it was his own ass on the line than he did when it was someone else’s son or daughter.

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  70. Rod1963 says:
    @AnotherDad

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.
     
    Such an enlisted force does not exist. Blacks are right around 16%--pretty much at their % of young people, at most a percent or two over-represented.

    The military more or less mirrors the nation in its ethnic makeup. (The Hispanic thing has gotten harder to figure out as they've changed definitions in the stats I've seen.) Obviously in terms of sex is still skews heavily male.

    The military does mirror the ethnic make up, but the blacks are highly concentrated in rear echolon units like logistics where the percentage is sky high(which is where a lot of rapes happened as well).

    Closer you get to shooting, the few there are. In some MOS’s that require brains, they are non-existent for all practical purposes.

    If you don’t think blacks can’t revolt, you’re wrong – there is a photo circulating of a bunch of current black West Pointer cadets doing the Black Panther – Black power salute after BLM was formed Must be 20 in the picture. They look like a bunch of 3rd world savages. The females were obese. They weren’t disciplined either. If it was white cadets doing a stiff armed sig heil – they’d be kicked out so fast it would make your head spin.

    And once these savages get their commission God help the white troops under their command. They’ll bust enlisted guys for sport.

    The thing about blacks in any organization, once they get over 12% or so, it causes problems. First off they congregate with one another – form a clique. And if they get management positions, they’ll really f**k things up. On the streets a group of blacks signifies trouble. I don’t care if you know one of them, in group, tribal dynamics hold sway and they revert to type. You’re just some ghost or cracker to them at the point.

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    It's worth posting a copy of the photo so that we can all see where our tax dollars are going.

    Also, they are not only the "usual suspects", they're all chix! LOL!

    http://straightfromthea.com/2016/05/06/west-point-cadets-under-fire-for-blacklivesmatter-pic/
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  71. Olorin says:
    @Dr. X

    What qualifies as significant combat?
     
    Oh, I'd say having a kamikaze crash through your flight deck into your hangar deck and turning your carrier into an inferno... getting torpedoed below the waterline, abandoning ship and having hundreds of crewmen eaten by sharks... getting attacked by multiple squadrons of enemy aircraft at 7 a.m. Sunday morning while anchored in your home port, and having your crippled battleship capsize while men are trapped below decks to die a slow death of starvation and lack of oxygen because you have no means to rescue them... you know, stuff like that -- and more -- that happened in World War II.

    No, the Navy hasn't seen significant combat in OVER fifty years.

    You’re talking about my dad’s Navy…

    …and you left out the part about having the smashed hull towed to ServRon10 afterward for repairs, and having to dig out from belowdecks chunks of slimy rotting flesh mixed with shit, metal, and bilgewater, and treat them with due respect while trying not to barf all over them or drop a festering bit or run screaming from the job.

    My father’s dearest hope when he died of asbestos at age 59 was that no Navy man would have to face that sort of combat ever again. And that “heroism” would be defined by other achievements…like restoring this republic’s independence and sense of destiny.

    He didn’t have a lot of schooling but he, his brother, and their father (my GF) damn well knew where those wars originated. “Significant combat” as you use the term means the kind of extreme mechanized and propagandized trauma that the purveyors of war and profit lay on men like my dad, and his family, to distract us from how they gained their fortunes.

    And will continue so long as they value lucre and shekels above all things and we continue to think the ability of our people to die or kill grotesquely in huge numbers is the sine qua non of heroism.

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  72. Wilkey says:
    @Anon
    "I have trouble with your idea on this point: China is a little left-over imperialism away from being one of the purest and largest ethno-states on Earth. While the low-level Han fully expect to be crushed by the juggernaut, it’s their juggernaut. There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren’t impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway). These points are totally incompatible with our doom from dissolution and our genocidally hostile elites. "

    The difference is really not that significant. In the end, the ruling classes of both countries desire the same result: unchallenged power for themselves. The circumstances are different, but the end result is the same: one-party rule and the masses controlled by an upperclass that has outsourced the controlling part to themselves and their friends - corporations, businesses, the entertainment industry, and the media. When that doesn't work, they use the government and then the military.

    It's a bit like a state equation in physics. The path is irrelevant, just the difference between final and initial. A bowling ball's potential energy does not depend on the path taken to a higher location. The only thing that matters is how high off the ground it is in the end. A similar analogy applies to the USA/China - different circumstances but same tactics and the same desired end result by both parties.

    "In fact, nakedly racist rioting and lynch mobs are alive and well in China, and the government doesn’t really mind them all that much."

    They are alive in the US as well and the government really doesn't mind that much because they direct their energies at the enemies of the ruling class. The elite sicked mobs of racists on innocent Trump supporters throughout the campaign, blamed President Trump for the violence the media created with their rhetoric, sometimes condoned it, or even covered it up when it wasn't convenient for them (Dallas BLM terrorist attack).

    "A lot of your other points are good but they do not gain anything by specifying China as opposed to your standard third world hellhole."

    China is a good example, and the irony going forward was too good to pass up (the future autocratic "Free World" versus autocratic China in effort to make the world safe for democracy). There may also be parallels with Russia and maybe Venezuela. But China is a clear example Americans can understand (and find on a map).

    There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren’t impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway).

    Chinese people can be very ethnocentric, but they also seem to be very good at looking after numero uno. They are fiercely competitive even with each other. Perhaps that’s why they’ve never been especially imperialistic or expansionist. You have to be selfless enough to want to die for the greater good. None of the model minority groups (Chinese, Indians, Jews) seem to want to join the military in any great numbers.

    The Japanese, OTOH, seem to be the more civic-minded, “crash my plane into this troop transport for the glory of the nation” types. So it is a bit more complicated than Oriental vs. Occidental.

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    "that’s why they’ve never been especially imperialistic or expansionist": on the contrary, Chinese history is about northern Chinese colonising the south. He was called the Chinese Emperor for a reason.
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  73. Wilkey says:

    The US military hasn’t had an actual win in 72 years, since August 1945…Why do these hacks deserve any respect, especially the ‘leaders’ like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, etc.

    Well to start with give them a war they can actually win – that is actually worth winning – and the troops and material to win it. We excluded the smartest men in the country from being required to serve during Vietnam and sent the rest to fight in a jungle that no one gave a shit about winning.

    Iraq? Afghanistan? How the hell are we even supposed to win that, given the unrealistic moral expectations imposed on our modern military? We could have quite easily taken their territory if we wanted to. We didn’t want to. We could have maybe fixed them a bit if we’d had the will to force them to abandon much of their culture. We didn’t have the will and didn’t want to expend the manpower to do that.

    It is our idiotic morality that has prevented us from winning a war since 1945, and has also driven us to fight a lot of wars we never should have gotten into. It has nothing to do with the quality of our generals.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    We could have maybe fixed them a bit if we’d had the will to force them to abandon much of their culture.

    Fix them?? How about fix ourselves? Our culture is dying.
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  74. The US Navy sunk or damaged six Iranian ships in Operation Preying Mantis April 18, 1988.

    http://web.stanford.edu/group/tomzgroup/pmwiki/uploads/2752-1988-04-22-FoF-a-JZW.doc

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  75. @Autochthon
    Commander Rasch was relieved of his command and reassigned following that debacle, which is shameful – he should have been relieved of his commission.

    The lieutenant in command of the boats – they were CB-90s, littoral craft, not ships by any means! – should have been court-martialed for surrendering his vessel. You NEVER do that. Never.

    To be fair, the whole thing was brought on by engine trouble causing them to drift into Iranian waters, so I suppose we are back to bad maintenance as the ultimate cause. Nevertheless, that lieutenant's foolishness (cowardice?) was the proximate cause: protocol would be to radio for immediate air support (as soon as the engines failed in proximity to territorial waters!) and continue negotiations with the Iranian vessels hailing them; it should not have taken more than fifteen minutes for a few Seahawks bristling with Hellfires to show up, followed very quickly by a enough hornets or harriers to make the Iranians remember their manners with utmost celerity.

    Then, too, maybe that protocol was followed and the help wasn't sent because of Obamite, retarded rules of engagement? I haven't done as much reaearch into the investigations and aftermath as I probably should. No matter: you NEVER surrender your vessel. Never.

    A sailboat 52 ft LOA displacing 18 tons could be credibly called a “small ship”, but yeah, fair enough. The point was that how could the officer in charge not have known exactly their positions —given the extreme political risk of entering Iranian territorial waters— in the era of $75 GPS devices made for cyclists and hikers having 5 m locational accuracy. (Presumably the crew also had personal smartphones with navigation packages.) Between the two vessels, there were four 625 bhp diesel engines and two pairs of Ma Deuces.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I agree completely; there is no excuse for ignorance of one's coordinates in littoral operations off a hostile coast, hence that LT should have been on the horn with his ship for assistance as soon as the engines failed and the dangers of drifting arose. Failing that, he went on to surrender his vessel to the enemy – without a fight! He then went on to record messages condemning the U.S.A. during capitivity.

    The guy should be in Leavenworth.
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  76. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “No, the Navy hasn’t seen significant combat in OVER fifty years.”

    If I were in charge of the the Chinese military, I would specifically identify American naval vessels staffed with large numbers of women and AA types with the intention of attacking them en masse during a conflict. Women would fare poorly at damage control due to their inferior physical strength and AA types may 1. be more likely to surrender their ships 2. do something stupid and get themselves sunk.

    “On top of that, the Navy has more ships than it it capable of operating and too many retirees to support.”

    The US is on course to increase its number of ships to over 300 by the end of the next decade, so it will only get worse.

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  77. @Wilkey
    The US military hasn’t had an actual win in 72 years, since August 1945...Why do these hacks deserve any respect, especially the ‘leaders’ like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, etc.

    Well to start with give them a war they can actually win - that is actually worth winning - and the troops and material to win it. We excluded the smartest men in the country from being required to serve during Vietnam and sent the rest to fight in a jungle that no one gave a shit about winning.

    Iraq? Afghanistan? How the hell are we even supposed to win that, given the unrealistic moral expectations imposed on our modern military? We could have quite easily taken their territory if we wanted to. We didn't want to. We could have maybe fixed them a bit if we'd had the will to force them to abandon much of their culture. We didn't have the will and didn't want to expend the manpower to do that.

    It is our idiotic morality that has prevented us from winning a war since 1945, and has also driven us to fight a lot of wars we never should have gotten into. It has nothing to do with the quality of our generals.

    We could have maybe fixed them a bit if we’d had the will to force them to abandon much of their culture.

    Fix them?? How about fix ourselves? Our culture is dying.

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  78. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “With eleven carriers (and the John F. Kennedy under construction) and nine amphibious assault ships, plus all the cruisers, destroyers, submarines, frigates, and aircraft that go with them, though, that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time.”

    Perhaps not. The Chinese are on track to have around 600 ships by 2050, more than double our current fleet. And they are heavily investing in making their military more technologically competent, including buying sophisticated aerial and air defense assets from the Russians (made worse by our government’s antagonism towards Putin).

    Already it is an open question as to whether or not the US could successfully fend off a Chinese invasion of Taiwan – a 2008 study noted the US would have to use 2/3′s of all its aircraft at that time to repel an attack, and the situation has probably only gotten much worse since then. In fact, the US only has about 60% of its naval assets in the Pacific, if I remember correctly, so it would likely be impossible to marshal enough force quickly enough to defeat China over Taiwan. China will have the advantage of using perhaps the entirety of its navy and airforce against just over half of the American navy and airforce, so we may be in trouble sooner than people think.

    Combined with the Chinese naval building spree, their deployment of increasingly sophisticated anti-carrier missiles, and a building program featuring stealth aircraft (including a pretty good knock off of the F-35), I see the Chinese as being able to extend their area of dominance further and further out. By 2040, the Chinese navy could probably defeat or stalemate the American navy all the way to Japan. By 2050, to Midway. By 2060 anywhere in the Pacific and perhaps the whole world.

    The US will have to spend an enormous sum of its economy on keeping up with China. I’m not sure if America’s future ruling coalition of the fringes will tolerate spending more money on aircraft carriers when we could be spending it on section 8 housing. China may end up winning by default.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    You ignore the fact that all the technology and financing enabling China's military (and everything else, for that matter) is stupidly given to them by what used to be the U.S.A.

    You also write as though the interests of Formosans were the interests of what used to be the U.S.A., and that defeating the one is to defeat the other.
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  79. @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    A sailboat 52 ft LOA displacing 18 tons could be credibly called a "small ship", but yeah, fair enough. The point was that how could the officer in charge not have known exactly their positions —given the extreme political risk of entering Iranian territorial waters— in the era of $75 GPS devices made for cyclists and hikers having 5 m locational accuracy. (Presumably the crew also had personal smartphones with navigation packages.) Between the two vessels, there were four 625 bhp diesel engines and two pairs of Ma Deuces.

    I agree completely; there is no excuse for ignorance of one’s coordinates in littoral operations off a hostile coast, hence that LT should have been on the horn with his ship for assistance as soon as the engines failed and the dangers of drifting arose. Failing that, he went on to surrender his vessel to the enemy – without a fight! He then went on to record messages condemning the U.S.A. during capitivity.

    The guy should be in Leavenworth.

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    • Replies: @ATX Hipster

    He then went on to record messages condemning the U.S.A. during capitivity.
     
    Article V of the Code of Conduct:

    When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.
     
    , @Studley
    Is this really the case?

    Jon Paul Jones and all that but you're arguing a ship's captain can never strike the colours (non-us spelling)?
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  80. whoever says: • Website
    @Newyorker
    My son is a navy submarine nuke. There is no affirmative action in this area. A high score on th the ABSCAM test (spelling) is required, probably over the 95th percentile, and still there are many dropouts from the training.

    The stakes are just too high for this indulgence which is exactly what it is. OK for cooks and swab bing the deck. Even with the tough screening my son says there are graduates of the program he hopes never to serve with on a sub. But that's not AA at fault, just that some careless people not adequate screened out. I have to wonder if these accidents are the result of that ,or AA. The positions seem too high to leave to the possible in competency of an AA candidate.

    The brown shoe Navy is just fine too, personnel-wise. “Yea, verily, airplane, it goeth ‘Crash!’” is not what you want to hear all that often. I kid, but what else can you do? We do not forget you, LT Nathan Poloski, gone in what in Navalese is called a Class A Mishap. We surely do not.
    Nor do we forget any who have gone on ahead.

    I hope there’s a place, way up in the sky,
    Where naval aviators can go when they have to die.
    A place where a guy could buy a cold beer
    For a friend and comrade whose memory is dear.
    A place where no blackshoe or porkchop could tread,
    Where a Pentagon type would ne’er be caught dead!
    Just a quaint little O’ club; kind of dark, full of smoke,
    Where they like to sing loud, and love a good joke.
    The kind of place, where a lady could go
    And feel safe and protected by the men she would know.
    There must be a place where old Navy pilots go
    When their wings get too weary, and their airspeed gets low.
    Where the whiskey is old and the women are young,
    And songs about flying and dying are sung,
    Where you’d see all the shipmates you’d served with before,
    And they’d call out your name, as you came through the door,
    Who would buy you a drink, if your thirst should be bad
    And relate to the others, “He was quite a good lad!”
    And then through the mist you’d spot an old guy
    You had not seen in years, though he’d taught you to fly.
    He’d nod his old head and grin ear to ear,
    And say, “Welcome shipmate, I’m pleased that you’re here!
    For this is the place where naval aviators come
    When the battles are over. and the wars have been won.
    They’ve come here at last to be safe and afar
    From the government clerk and the management czar,
    Politicians and lawyers, the feds and the noise,
    Where all hours are happy, and these good old boys
    Can relax with a cool one, and a well-deserved rest!
    This is Heaven, my son, you’ve passed your last test!”

    (Variously attributed, but I know it was written by CDR Jim Peek, who passed away in April.)

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
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  81. It is our idiotic morality that has prevented us from winning a war since 1945, and has also driven us to fight a lot of wars we never should have gotten into. It has nothing to do with the quality of our generals.

    Was defending Korea against Communist takeover in 1950 a mistake? A yes or no answer, please.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Probably not, but pushing toward the Yalu river and drawing the Chinese into the war was. We could have had the same result with much less loss of life had we stopped close to the current DMZ.
    , @Autochthon
    Yes.
    , @Chris Mallory
    Yes. South Korea was/is not worth one drop of American blood or one ounce of American gold.
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  82. @Charles Pewitt
    The United States military is being destroyed by anti-White race quotas and anti-White diversity.

    General Leprechaun Casey said the Ft. Hood Islamic terrorist attack by an Islamic terrorist US military officer was tragic, but Casey said what would be even more tragic would be if wonderful diversity in the US military was wounded. At least a dozen were killed and many more were wounded by an Islamic terrorist and all General Leprechaun Casey would do was shrug his shoulders.

    One of the most alarming hatefacts I’ve come across – and I can’t remember where I read it, but it was shortly after Trump made his Gold Star family gaffe and destroyed his chance at winning the presidency – but someone pointed out that since 9/11 there have been more American servicemen murdered by their Muslim American fellow soldiers (eighteen people – thirteen in the Ft. Hood shooting, five in Chattanooga) than Muslim American servicemen killed in action (ten to fourteen, according to Daily Mail.)

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Add in this fragging by Hasan Akbar in 2003, and the Muzzie "friendly fire" total rises to twenty.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Hasan_K._Akbar
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  83. Dan Hayes says:

    larry lurker,

    Regarding your citation of the Daily Mail, I regard the DM as the English/American Newspaper of Record (despite Wikipedia’s contrary and unbalanced assertions).

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    • Replies: @larry lurker

    Regarding your citation of the Daily Mail, I regard the DM as the English/American Newspaper of Record (despite Wikipedia’s contrary and unbalanced assertions).
     
    Indeed. The phrase "newspaper of record" actually went through my head when I was posting - I think The Derb called it that once.

    There was a more thorough New Yorker article that was the second result when googling "muslim americans killed in action", but no figure jumped out at me as I was skimming the first few paragraphs and 14 dead matches my recollection, so... why not go with the NoR.

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  84. Neoconned says:
    @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    To be fair, theres no more stomach for wide scale deployments of reserves to fuckholes like Iraq. I mean it was insane.

    We blew $2 billion a wk a few yrs back in Afghanistan…..and for what? To prop up a bunch of tribal heroin mobsters and to protect bacha basi pederasts?

    Trumps wall was to cost a lousy 30 billion. The welfare savings alone would pay for it. But we were spending that kinda dough in Iraq but cant spend a fraction of that on a wall? Come on.

    Is protecting child molesters and drug lords really that big of an isdue?

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    • Replies: @anon
    Well, it might be a big issue for pederasts and druglords.
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  85. @J.Ross
    The idea that the third world is unironically the goal is not new or original, though I am more used to seeing comparisons to Mexico or Brazil. Perhaps Derb is prevented from this particular iteration by knowing extenuating details about China.
    While I surely know a lot less than him, I have trouble with your idea on this point: China is a little left-over imperialism away from being one of the purest and largest ethno-states on Earth. While the low-level Han fully expect to be crushed by the juggernaut, it's their juggernaut. There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren't impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway). These points are totally incompatible with our doom from dissolution and our genocidally hostile elites. There are no small towns in rural ... uhhh ... Jiangsu, which are being forced to accept whole communities of Somalis or Chicagfricans, specifically to disrupt their unforgivable purity. In fact, nakedly racist rioting and lynch mobs are alive and well in China, and the government doesn't really mind them all that much.
    A lot of your other points are good but they do not gain anything by specifying China as opposed to your standard third world hellhole. I think the tldr is: the target is not white skin per se, the target is anything Blackstone or Maitland or Madison would recognize as English legal or governmental tradition. I have been saying that Obama and Holder were bringing in Chinese legal thinking, eg, ditching no ex post facto in favoring of non-enforcement of any laws they didn't like, but nevertheless leaving those laws on the books just in case you change your mind. That's what the Chinese did to their first modern import-export trade advisor.

    That’s the thing though, Western elites have absolutely zero appreciation for the monolithic enthnostate aspect of China and how this allows the Chinese system to be uniquely successful in it’s narrowly defined set of goals. All Western elites know is that they want the power and control China’s elites got and they want it NOW. China with more democratic window dressing is the model. Of course what they’ll get is something more like a wobbly, uncontrollable garbage heap like Brazil.

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  86. @Rod1963
    Even the conventional combat units are mostly white, you won't find blacks in them. If you watch the National Geographic specials on the Afghanistan fighting, it's mostly white guys with a smattering of Hispanics.

    Clinton hated that and I suspect so did Obama - that high concentration of highly trained and lethal whites. I also suspect they hated the fact that once those men left the service(especially the snipers) they just become part of the crowd.

    Even the conventional combat units are mostly white, you won’t find blacks in them

    Not quite true, but not too far off. Army infantry is ~85% white, and units get whiter with more barriers to entry, e.g. airborne units are whiter than leg units. SOF units are whiter still.

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  87. @Dan Hayes
    larry lurker,

    Regarding your citation of the Daily Mail, I regard the DM as the English/American Newspaper of Record (despite Wikipedia's contrary and unbalanced assertions).

    Regarding your citation of the Daily Mail, I regard the DM as the English/American Newspaper of Record (despite Wikipedia’s contrary and unbalanced assertions).

    Indeed. The phrase “newspaper of record” actually went through my head when I was posting – I think The Derb called it that once.

    There was a more thorough New Yorker article that was the second result when googling “muslim americans killed in action”, but no figure jumped out at me as I was skimming the first few paragraphs and 14 dead matches my recollection, so… why not go with the NoR.

    Read More
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  88. @Autochthon
    I agree completely; there is no excuse for ignorance of one's coordinates in littoral operations off a hostile coast, hence that LT should have been on the horn with his ship for assistance as soon as the engines failed and the dangers of drifting arose. Failing that, he went on to surrender his vessel to the enemy – without a fight! He then went on to record messages condemning the U.S.A. during capitivity.

    The guy should be in Leavenworth.

    He then went on to record messages condemning the U.S.A. during capitivity.

    Article V of the Code of Conduct:

    When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

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  89. I doubt the Diversity hires are for internal suppression of the US population. The Navy is never good at that (nor is the Air Force). For internal suppression you want the Army filled with your guys. Ideally there is some kind of heavily armed paramilitary state security police you can call on, too.

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    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    The problem is that the closest law enforcement analogous to a paramilitary - counter insurgent force is the US Border Patrol - filled with whites and hispanics who are fond of the saying "stay on your side of the fucking river".

    Why do you think Trump has been keeping these guys happy while needling the FBI? They re part of his coup insurance.
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  90. @Ian
    All the post-Midway naval battles around Guadalcanal - the two major carrier battles, the five major surface engagements, and all the smaller engagements - were spicy affairs between evenly matched enemies, resulting in lots of confusion, fire, and dead bodies.

    Yes the kamikazes off Okinawa in 1945 were no joke, to the tune of 5,000 dead, many ships sunk, and many more sent back to the West Coast for lengthy repairs.

    U boats continued to be a real threat in the Atlantic until 1944 and perhaps 1945.

    But since WW2 ended, yes; air strike pilots aside, the US navy faced, by my estimate, mostly Vietnamese and Nork torpedo boats, Druse artillery batteries, and Iranian and Somali pirate speedboats.

    Has any Western navy lost ships in battle since the 1982 Falklands War? I recall the Israelis lost a small ship to a Hezbollah missile in the 2006 war; I can’t recall *anyone* losing a ship in battle since then.

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    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    Google for Saudi ships lost in Yemen war.
    , @David Davenport
    Has any Western navy lost ships in battle since the 1982 Falklands War? I recall the Israelis lost a small ship to a Hezbollah missile in the 2006 war; I can’t recall *anyone* losing a ship in battle since then.

    No American "ships" "lost" in "battle," as the words are usually defined.

    In April 1988 the USS Samuel B. Roberts struck and was damaged by an Iranian mine in the Persian Gulf.

    Am Iraqi flying a French-made warplane* badly damaged the USS Stark with two Exocet missiles in the Persian Gulf in May 1987. The warplane may have been a Super Etendard fighter or a modified Dassault business jet. Accounts are not clear as to which type of airplane.

    A small boat loaded with explosives damaged the USS Cole at dockside in Aden in October 2000.

    Both attacks were surprise attacks. All three warships were repaired and returned to service. Dead sailors could not be brought back to life, however.
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  91. Maj. Kong says:
    @jimbojones
    You make great points, but I think that the Democrats are overplaying their hand substantially. I think that the following three scenarios are all far more likely than Democrat single-party rule akin to what Singapore, Japan and Sweden have experienced:
    - The Republicans actually succeed in attracting Latinos.
    - The Democratic party splits.
    - The United States breaks up.

    The Republican party is a disaster of its own; but the hubris, incompetence, and general insanity of the Democratic party became obvious to all who would see a year ago. It was not just Trump. The Democrats were trounced at every level.

    The continued stability of the US likely depends on an immigration moratorium, which must be passed over the virulent objections of the Hispanic/Asian/Jewish ethnic lobbies. We will need a sizable minority of those groups to make peace with white identity politics. I suspect that a populist GOP running on a record of 4% growth could get 20-25% of the black vote on a much reduced turnout, potentially winning Illinois.

    If the GOP wants to keep winning elections, it needs to attack the Silicon Dons and break up their monopolies.

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    • Agree: Travis, Percy Gryce
    • Replies: @Wally
    2010 Dems lost the House
    2012 Dems lost the Senate
    2016 Dems lost the White House

    The Democrats lost more than 1,000 seats at the federal and state level during Obama’s presidency, including 9 Senate seats, 62 House seats, 12 governorships, and a startling 958 state legislative seats.

    counties, 2016 election:

    https://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png

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  92. Lot says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    The United States military is being destroyed by anti-White race quotas and anti-White diversity.

    General Leprechaun Casey said the Ft. Hood Islamic terrorist attack by an Islamic terrorist US military officer was tragic, but Casey said what would be even more tragic would be if wonderful diversity in the US military was wounded. At least a dozen were killed and many more were wounded by an Islamic terrorist and all General Leprechaun Casey would do was shrug his shoulders.

    I know of one military that fights jihadi terrorists rather than employs them as chaplains and hires them as psychologists. I thank the junior David Brooks for his service with our ally.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    But they don't fight on our side, so they can't really be called an ally.
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  93. Pericles says:
    @anonymouslee
    There's a reason we've moved towards spec ops doing all the fighting.

    They're islands of Trump's America competence in the sea of diversity, political correctness and welfare that's the rest of our supposed armed forces.

    Here's Tiger Woods with some Navy SEALs: http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2016/0420/r75852_2_1296x1029cc.jpg

    Where’s Waldo?

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  94. Pericles says:
    @SFG
    Depressingly, importance of position is no barrier to AA. (Arguably the commander-in-chief was an AA hire last time, though he did win the election.) I've seen it in medicine, science, etc. (You may remember Pres. Trump's prior statement on the preferred ethnicity of his accountants.) Steve's covered AA in firefighting for a while, and that's literally life-or-death. We've seen gender ideology interfere with military readiness.

    The military does have a bit of an excuse in that a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps, for example.

    What will the Salon articles look like after a diverse force of firemen run into the inferno the next 9/11?

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    If my experience among volunteer and professional firefighters in a 65% black city is any indication, the diversihires will run the other way while the old white guys who might be remaining will hang themselves on the cross of altruism.

    The diversihires will come back later when there's something to loot.
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  95. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Autochthon
    I accept your point.

    Those of us who have been in combat since the war in Viet Nam don't reckon there was anything insignificant about being shot at.

    Returning to the topic: it's true the quality of naval personnel suffer now just as they do in every other aspect of what used to be the U.S.A. With eleven carriers (and the John F. Kennedy under construction) and nine amphibious assault ships, plus all the cruisers, destroyers, submarines, frigates, and aircraft that go with them, though, that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time. I don't know that this is a good thing; I'm more inclined lately to cheer on anything that leads to the end of the current situation and an opportunity for a new, free nation to emerge from the ashes.

    For the Navy, excluding aviators, SEALs, and corpsmen assigned to Marine units, I’d say it hasn’t seen significant combat since WW2. And by significant I mean facing ships capable of sinking its ships.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The only major naval wars have been the Falklands, and India-Pakistan 1971. At the same time, China hasn't fought a naval war since the 19th century, and supposedly only started sending its nuclear submarines on combat patrols last year. An engagement of two blue water peer adversaries is only likely in a total war scenario.

    Many have observed that ASW training and capability has withered since the end of the Cold War, and that more than anything else would be the USN's biggest problem.

    Politically, maintaining a large naval arm will become questionable. Most bases are located in coastal blue states, carriers and SSBNs are prohibitively expensive. We should not discount that if Trump wins again*, with a bigger margin, that California would secede taking away our main naval base in San Diego, and the secondary base is right across Puget Sound from socialist Seattle. (rural NorCal, known as 'Jefferson' would likely leave California).

    *This presumes that the Wall is built and major cuts to immigration are passed after a victory in the '18 Senate elections. Also assumes that the Arnold scenario doesn't happen.
    , @Autochthon

    For the navy, excluding aviators...it hasn't seen significant combat....
     
    Way to define favourable terms for your position.

    For my family, excluding my income, I'd say it hasn't earned any significant money....

    Of course, Dr. X remembers the good ole days with the line of battle, and someone around here is doubtless on again about the obsolescene of carriers....
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  96. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    One thing the Navy did better than any other service from WWII on was to train radio and electronics technicians. I worked with a lot of those guys and many were wicked good. A couple had gone to an advanced course called “Microelectronic Repair”. They would take a standard circuit board-something with four or six layers and a lot of parts, out of a minicomputer or a sonar set or whatever-and saw it in half. You’d have to put it back together and make it work. There is nothing like that in civilian electronic training, I know because I taught vo tech electronics and hydraulics.

    The submarine guys were the best, because they would have to fix anything on the boat besides nuclear surety or sealed crypto boards (those they carried spares for and if the spares broke the patrol was over). The avionics guys and fire control (gun aiming, not firefighting) rates were good too. Many of these guys retired out with EE/CS degrees and a few started companies that did pretty well doing maintenance on stuff like MRI machines.

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    • Replies: @res

    One thing the Navy did better than any other service from WWII on was to train radio and electronics technicians.
     
    How much of this do you think was due to the training and how much due to good personnel selection?

    The submarine guys were the best
     
    The submarine guys make a good example. I understand the US Navy submarine service is very selective.
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  97. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Neoconned
    To be fair, theres no more stomach for wide scale deployments of reserves to fuckholes like Iraq. I mean it was insane.

    We blew $2 billion a wk a few yrs back in Afghanistan.....and for what? To prop up a bunch of tribal heroin mobsters and to protect bacha basi pederasts?

    Trumps wall was to cost a lousy 30 billion. The welfare savings alone would pay for it. But we were spending that kinda dough in Iraq but cant spend a fraction of that on a wall? Come on.

    Is protecting child molesters and drug lords really that big of an isdue?

    Well, it might be a big issue for pederasts and druglords.

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  98. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Rantly McTirade
    Why do those Hessians have their eyes blacked out?
    Really, if they're such bad mofo's they shouldn't have to hide their identity, like antifa or the klan.
    Or perhaps they realize that their activities have absolutely nothing to do with the best interests of the nation or the vast majority of American citizens, and that even the dullards that dominate the nation's populace will eventually realize this and quit 'supporting'(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.

    I think the idea is to prevent U.S.-based ISIS fans from targeting their families here.

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    • Replies: @Rantly McTirade
    We should deal with(very harshly) any US based ISIS fans(and anyone close to them). But the figureheads won't do this-remember when Drunk 'n AWOL Bush expressed'compassion' for American Taliban Lindh? At a point when we could have deported any Muslim(citizen or not) and simply wiped out much of Afghan/Paki where the 'enemy' was at-just bombed them like Dresden, slaughtering millions in a few days.
    And realistically the level of 'ISIS fans' in the US is so low that they're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver than by ISIS, at least within this nation. This disguise stunt is more likely a propaganda piece to show how important the effort is and maintain support for it, but the fact that we have to put women and trannies on the front lines shows that the populace is wising up-young males from rural/small city locales would rather be junkies than globalist hessians.
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  99. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @David Davenport
    It is our idiotic morality that has prevented us from winning a war since 1945, and has also driven us to fight a lot of wars we never should have gotten into. It has nothing to do with the quality of our generals.

    Was defending Korea against Communist takeover in 1950 a mistake? A yes or no answer, please.

    Probably not, but pushing toward the Yalu river and drawing the Chinese into the war was. We could have had the same result with much less loss of life had we stopped close to the current DMZ.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Pyongyang would have remained in Communist control, control of the northern capital allowed it to claim legitimacy rather than being a puppet. Look at Angola as a later parallel.
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  100. @Rantly McTirade
    Why do those Hessians have their eyes blacked out?
    Really, if they're such bad mofo's they shouldn't have to hide their identity, like antifa or the klan.
    Or perhaps they realize that their activities have absolutely nothing to do with the best interests of the nation or the vast majority of American citizens, and that even the dullards that dominate the nation's populace will eventually realize this and quit 'supporting'(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.

    …even the dullards that dominate the nation’s populace will eventually realize this and quit ‘supporting’(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.

    When exactly this happened during USSR’s collapse, it turned out that ‘real jobs’ for these dudes involve various flavors of organized crime.

    Not a good situation.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    At least then we can stop outsourcing organized crime to the El Salvadorans.
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  101. Maj. Kong says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    For the Navy, excluding aviators, SEALs, and corpsmen assigned to Marine units, I'd say it hasn't seen significant combat since WW2. And by significant I mean facing ships capable of sinking its ships.

    The only major naval wars have been the Falklands, and India-Pakistan 1971. At the same time, China hasn’t fought a naval war since the 19th century, and supposedly only started sending its nuclear submarines on combat patrols last year. An engagement of two blue water peer adversaries is only likely in a total war scenario.

    Many have observed that ASW training and capability has withered since the end of the Cold War, and that more than anything else would be the USN’s biggest problem.

    Politically, maintaining a large naval arm will become questionable. Most bases are located in coastal blue states, carriers and SSBNs are prohibitively expensive. We should not discount that if Trump wins again*, with a bigger margin, that California would secede taking away our main naval base in San Diego, and the secondary base is right across Puget Sound from socialist Seattle. (rural NorCal, known as ‘Jefferson’ would likely leave California).

    *This presumes that the Wall is built and major cuts to immigration are passed after a victory in the ’18 Senate elections. Also assumes that the Arnold scenario doesn’t happen.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Your scenario is silly. After the Constitution was adopted several states toyed with the idea of leaving the union just as California is now. But even if California were to secede the US would likely keep San Diego like we have kept Guantanamo.

    When I came to California in the sixties all of Orange County was deeply Republican. Since then the state has elected a whole series of Republican governors. Currently we are going through a leftist phase. I don't know quite why, but it certainly could reverse again.
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  102. Maj. Kong says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    Probably not, but pushing toward the Yalu river and drawing the Chinese into the war was. We could have had the same result with much less loss of life had we stopped close to the current DMZ.

    Pyongyang would have remained in Communist control, control of the northern capital allowed it to claim legitimacy rather than being a puppet. Look at Angola as a later parallel.

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  103. Pericles says:

    Since HMS Sheffield I assume any more serious naval war will quickly turn into a sinkfest.

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    • Replies: @AB-

    Since HMS Sheffield I assume any more serious naval war will quickly turn into a sinkfest.
     
    Probably been one shot, one kill for the last 40 years. But that would be first world militaries; turd world shitholes we've been in, not so much.

    I always thought if I ever was drafted into the military, last place I wanted to be was in something expensive enough to justify using a $100K+ missile on it. Like a tank. Or a ship or plane.

    Just me behind my boulder, they'd leave me alone. LOL
    , @SteveRogers42
    The Sheffield-class ships were lightly armored, with aluminum hulls that tended to ignite. Their primary NATO mission was anti-submarine warfare, and it was not envisioned that they would become involved in surface actions. A steel-hulled WW2 destroyer was more heavily armored and would have been able to absorb that Exocet hit and keep fighting.

    At the time, I thought this would have been a clear lesson for naval architects, but now, looking at the damage inflicted on our destroyers by a couple of non-explosive collisions, I wonder whether all surface combatants are now lightly-armored for some reason that I'm sure makes sense to the bean-counters overseeing a peacetime navy.

    A great blog for all things naval is commandersalamander.com -- those guys are pros.
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  104. CAL2 says:
    @Barnard
    From the full article:

    “Their aggressive deployment schedule gave the Navy more presence, it’s true. But it came at a cost, including detrimental effects on ship readiness,” Pendleton said. “In fact, we were told that the overseas based ships were so busy that they had to train on the margins. Term I’d not heard before. And it was explained to me that meant that they had to squeeze training in when they could.”
     
    What do they do on deployment that they don't have time for training? China must really be intimidated by this. I wonder if pregnancy brain and duty reassignment after a pregnant woman is sent home are factors in some of these cases.

    On deployment, they are busy running the ship which means things that you don’t do on a daily basis don’t get any practice. Even those things you do daily you start getting sloppy. Think of it as a football team that is playing a game every day. There isn’t time for practice and performance begins to suffer. The QB’s mechanics get sloppy. You can’t run certain plays because you haven’t practiced them enough, etc.

    I wonder if pregnancy brain and duty reassignment after a pregnant woman is sent home are factors in some of these cases.

    That’s not helping things because it is leaving ships short-handed. So people have more jobs and that results in less training as well.

    In both of the destroyer collisions, the captain was not on the bridge in highly congested waters. That speaks to command negligence.

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  105. CAL2 says:
    @International Jew
    I sense a hard edge to that comment, but in all fairness the US Navy hasn't faced anything like a credible foe, in battle, since WW2, and even then rarely, after the Battle of Midway.

    I sense a hard edge to that comment, but in all fairness the US Navy hasn’t faced anything like a credible foe, in battle, since WW2, and even then rarely, after the Battle of Midway.

    The US Navy spent the rest of 1942 after Midway in a titanic struggle with the Japanese navy around Guadalcanal. Strategically the US won that phase of the war but in most of the engagements, it was a draw or Japanese victories. However, the navy could replace its loses and kept the Japanese from recapturing the island.

    When you compare the victory at Midway to the carrier battles that followed later that year, you realize what a miraculous victory it was.

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  106. @Dr. X

    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?
     
    I sure was... we both met your mother in a Subic Bay whorehouse.

    For you to’ve been in the Philippines when my father was means you must be over ninety, which explains the dementia. Perhaps you need your diaper changed and some nice tapioca pudding to make you less grouchy.

    If that’s not it, then let’s meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.

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    • Replies: @anon

    If that’s not it, then let’s meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.
     
    Please stop. This kind of stuff is boring. It's just not Unz-y. :(
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  107. George says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    Insty linked this: http://ktla.com/2017/08/17/uss-fitzgeralds-leadership-to-be-removed-from-their-duties-over-june-collision/

    "The Fitzgerald’s commanding officer, Cdr. Bryce Benson, and the executive officer, Cdr. Sean Babbiit, were both sleeping, and the master chief petty officer, Brice Baldwin, was not on the bridge at the time of collision, according to the Navy."

    And this: http://inmilitary.com/real-reason-us-navy-keeps-hitting-merchant-vessels/

    "COs don’t get to sleep in in heavy shipping waters, [that’s] just a fact."

    ” both sleeping”

    It worse, since the Cdr was injured in the collision it would appear he was sleeping in his ‘in port’ stateroom type birth, not the ‘at sea’ cabin near the bridge. But even if all three officers were off the bridge, the crew should still have been able to operate the ship. It is a fighting ship which should imagine substantial casualties among the officers. And American sailors are not supposed to be ignorant peons.

    I mean, you just can’t expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys. – Gen. Turgidson, from Dr Strangelove

    It is also not just 2 incidents. USS Antietam grounding and the most embarrassing of all the USS Guardian grounding and destruction of a coral reef. To mitigate the damage to the reef Guardian was dismantled at sea.

    The US no longer has a maritime tradition, so the Navy can no longer find crews among US nationals that know ships. The Navy needs fewer ships. The ships have become employment programs too. Fitzgerald had a crew of 300, while her nemisis Crystal had 30.

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  108. Monopoly says:
    @Tiny Duck
    The weak genes of white men will not exist in 50 years

    We will soon be a Black planet

    SUCK IT

    All the way, NBA…

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  109. @Rantly McTirade
    The US military hasn't had an actual win in 72 years, since August 1945. look at the record:
    Korea-draw
    Vietnam-loss
    Gulf War- a win that degenerated into a draw within six months of ending.
    Afghanistan-On the lose side of a draw.
    Iraq-draw, leaning towards a loss.
    And if you want to count small adventures like Grenada and Panama as wins, then you have to count other small adventures, like the attempted Iran hostage rescue and Somalia, as losses.
    Why do these hacks deserve any respect, especially the 'leaders' like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, etc. No better than the justly abused 'Crapversity is our stench' Casey. And the grunts and shmoes at lower levels have chosen to cast their lot with a loser outfit that's simply another giant tit of the welfare state, with no actual success at its stated mission(course thats not the true mission, now is it)-why are we near worshiping these folks? Their pay, benefits and job security are better than most of the private citizens whose taxes help fund this boondoggle. But at least the global supply chain, and dollar reserve currency status, are safe, eh.

    You misunderstand the situation; check your premises. The military of what used to he the U.S.A. hasn’t been actually engaged in any conflicts any military can meaningfully win, nor has it been permitted (by the civilian government, by the flag officers, or both) to meaningfully fight even those conflicts in those years.

    The situations in Korea and Viet Nam were examples of lack of political will to engage whole-hog. The situations in Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of wars that were won as much as they could be: the invasions were successes (the opposing militaries were routed and the governments deposed), but the ensuing occupations failed because one can only govern savages savagely, and the leaders were too squamish to do so. All four theatres are examples of dopey adventures which couldn’t be “won” because they did not meaningfully implicate the defence of what used to be the U.S.A. (Please don’t cite terrorism: meaningful defence and response to terrorism hardly involves the military, and it is very easy: don’t let terrorists, or anyone with the slightest possibility of being terrorists – i.e., Mohammedans – into the place. If subterfuge foils even this policy, don’t let any one into the place: what used to be the U.S.A. needs absolutely zero immigration; indeed any immigration at all is detrimental, nevermind terrorism.)

    In any event, victory is not measured by successful colonisation. I hereby resurrect my own point that Reagan’s handling of Libya (and, come to that, Truman’s of Japan) should be lodestones: “You’ve behaved unacceptably, therefore we have killed a lot of you and broken a lot of your stuff. We don’t much give a damn what you do with yourselves, but you’ll not bother us again. If you do, we will be back, and we will kill even more of you and break even more of your stuff. If you keep it up because you think you are cute, we will turn your capital into a shiny piece of glass, and that will be that.”

    This nonsense about “winning the peace” and “nation-building” is just that.

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  110. @Anon
    "With eleven carriers (and the John F. Kennedy under construction) and nine amphibious assault ships, plus all the cruisers, destroyers, submarines, frigates, and aircraft that go with them, though, that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time."

    Perhaps not. The Chinese are on track to have around 600 ships by 2050, more than double our current fleet. And they are heavily investing in making their military more technologically competent, including buying sophisticated aerial and air defense assets from the Russians (made worse by our government's antagonism towards Putin).

    Already it is an open question as to whether or not the US could successfully fend off a Chinese invasion of Taiwan - a 2008 study noted the US would have to use 2/3's of all its aircraft at that time to repel an attack, and the situation has probably only gotten much worse since then. In fact, the US only has about 60% of its naval assets in the Pacific, if I remember correctly, so it would likely be impossible to marshal enough force quickly enough to defeat China over Taiwan. China will have the advantage of using perhaps the entirety of its navy and airforce against just over half of the American navy and airforce, so we may be in trouble sooner than people think.

    Combined with the Chinese naval building spree, their deployment of increasingly sophisticated anti-carrier missiles, and a building program featuring stealth aircraft (including a pretty good knock off of the F-35), I see the Chinese as being able to extend their area of dominance further and further out. By 2040, the Chinese navy could probably defeat or stalemate the American navy all the way to Japan. By 2050, to Midway. By 2060 anywhere in the Pacific and perhaps the whole world.

    The US will have to spend an enormous sum of its economy on keeping up with China. I'm not sure if America's future ruling coalition of the fringes will tolerate spending more money on aircraft carriers when we could be spending it on section 8 housing. China may end up winning by default.

    You ignore the fact that all the technology and financing enabling China’s military (and everything else, for that matter) is stupidly given to them by what used to be the U.S.A.

    You also write as though the interests of Formosans were the interests of what used to be the U.S.A., and that defeating the one is to defeat the other.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Autochthon, I heartily agree with your post #108 (in addition to #72 by Wilkey and #83 by neoconned). However, on this one, I don't know what you mean at all by the financing bit. Do you mean financing the development of all the new technology?

    The Chinese have gotten access to American developed high-tech (not just electronics) via various ways - making deals or bribes with politicians (with Clinton as the worst example), via business deals in which they reneg and go on their own as soon as they have reverse-engineered what they need to, and via the 100's of thousands of engineering students at Universities, National Labs and everywhere else. That is how it's been, but I just don't think they need us anymore for this either. I'm not saying they are great innovators, but they make everything now, so they have the human capital and infrastructure to go on their own.

    On the money end, China is one of the financiers of the US, not the other way around. If we ever got into a full out war with them, we'd be calling for a cease-fire to wait for parts shipments from CHINA. See, the huge advantage we have had militarily can only last so long before the money runs out. It's all about our economy vs. the enemy's economy unless there is just some short-lived skirmish. Look at WWII - historians will tell you that it was the powerful US economy and logistics (but you have to have LOTS of supplies and ships/vehicles/airplanes to do logistics right.) vs. Americans' ability to fight vs. the Germans or Japs (not to knock any of them, BTW).

    Lastly, I absolutely agree on Formosa (thanks for using the correct spelling!). As soon as we knew the Commies were going to stay in charge on the mainland, what 1950, and later, say 1990's, that the Chinese weren't going to completely destroy the former nationalists on Formosa, it should have been the time to ease out of promising defense of that island. They do billions of dollars of business, maybe 100's of billions in business together, and they aren't gonna blow each other up. Why should a beyond-broke country like us stay in a treaty with Formosa, S. Korea, the Baltics, any of them? WE ARE BROKE!
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Your post also reminded me of something that happened just today that I need to write up better on my blog. I know something about China and have been there a number of times. This is about "infrastructure", not the more specific meaning of the term, as in roads, bridges, etc., but about just manufacturing infrastructure that we are losing daily.

    I have a piece of my vehicle, the inside rear-view mirror, that got damaged, and everyone tells me, just get a new one. It's not that it's the money, as it's just a small piece of glass that's broken, but a new one won't be too awful much. However, I would save time if there were a glass shop that would (I checked around) just cut and sell me the piece so I could pop it in, but also I just HATE HATE HATE throwing good parts, the rest of it, that is, away. It irks me, but it's the modern way.

    However, I could be out in the most backwards province in China, and go out of the apartment and within 1/2 mile probably I'd get the part I needed for cheap with a smile (well, they probably ripped me off over a Chinaman, hence the big smile ;-} I kid you not - there are small stores (the people live in back or on top), one with cables, chains, ropes and that, the next with motors, pumps, and that, the next with hoses of all kinds, sizes and colors ... man, the place is a handyman's paradise! Where is your nearest hardware store, and do the people in there know squat-all about working on anything at all, besides the old guy in the back??

    We are getting pathetic as far as human capital and DIY is concerned. Pretty soon young Americans will literally become the uncoordinated geeks, and the Chinese will be the can-do guys. OK, yeah, this has nothing to do with the Navy.
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  111. @David Davenport
    It is our idiotic morality that has prevented us from winning a war since 1945, and has also driven us to fight a lot of wars we never should have gotten into. It has nothing to do with the quality of our generals.

    Was defending Korea against Communist takeover in 1950 a mistake? A yes or no answer, please.

    Yes.

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  112. @Dave Pinsen
    For the Navy, excluding aviators, SEALs, and corpsmen assigned to Marine units, I'd say it hasn't seen significant combat since WW2. And by significant I mean facing ships capable of sinking its ships.

    For the navy, excluding aviators…it hasn’t seen significant combat….

    Way to define favourable terms for your position.

    For my family, excluding my income, I’d say it hasn’t earned any significant money….

    Of course, Dr. X remembers the good ole days with the line of battle, and someone around here is doubtless on again about the obsolescene of carriers….

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Include aviators, and that takes you back to Vietnam. I wouldn't count dropping bombs on countries with no air forces to speak of significant combat.
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  113. George says:

    Hey iSteve, why all this Obama age stuff. Really the US military is Ws military. True Obama just stayed the course, but the trajectory was started by W and Obama’s officers were all trained and selected by W. Although to be honest the rot starts during the Reagan administration when the Gipper starts buying useless weapons like the B-1 and a whole bunch of ships that could not be properly crewed and maintained. Fast forward and we have Iraqistan, V-22s falling out of the sky, and the F-35.

    Late Obama age collapse at sea of the Royal Navy in 1893

    HMS Victoria and Camperdown collide because of misapplication of Euclidian geometry. Should have added at least have the width of the ships to the turn radii.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victoria_(1887)#The_collision

    Don’t worry 1893 was not the end of the empire, the US has many years to run. People present at the screw up in ’93 fought WWI, and their children and grand children fought WWII and dissolved the empire. The great great grand children dissolved the UK with mass third world immigration.

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  114. res says:
    @Anonymous
    One thing the Navy did better than any other service from WWII on was to train radio and electronics technicians. I worked with a lot of those guys and many were wicked good. A couple had gone to an advanced course called "Microelectronic Repair". They would take a standard circuit board-something with four or six layers and a lot of parts, out of a minicomputer or a sonar set or whatever-and saw it in half. You'd have to put it back together and make it work. There is nothing like that in civilian electronic training, I know because I taught vo tech electronics and hydraulics.

    The submarine guys were the best, because they would have to fix anything on the boat besides nuclear surety or sealed crypto boards (those they carried spares for and if the spares broke the patrol was over). The avionics guys and fire control (gun aiming, not firefighting) rates were good too. Many of these guys retired out with EE/CS degrees and a few started companies that did pretty well doing maintenance on stuff like MRI machines.

    One thing the Navy did better than any other service from WWII on was to train radio and electronics technicians.

    How much of this do you think was due to the training and how much due to good personnel selection?

    The submarine guys were the best

    The submarine guys make a good example. I understand the US Navy submarine service is very selective.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    res,

    Yes, the US Navy submarine service is very selective but now in having coed crews - a sure recipe for tensions in tight submarine spaces.

    , @dr kill
    But half gay and the other half lez, what's not to like? At least no one will be slingshot back to the States preggers.

    I'm trying for humor here, but what has been done to the US armed forces is not a joke. Is there anything that the Federal Gov can't ruin? I can't think of a single example.

    Anyone joining up now was just born wrong.
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  115. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    For you to've been in the Philippines when my father was means you must be over ninety, which explains the dementia. Perhaps you need your diaper changed and some nice tapioca pudding to make you less grouchy.

    If that's not it, then let's meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.

    If that’s not it, then let’s meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.

    Please stop. This kind of stuff is boring. It’s just not Unz-y. :(

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Fair enough. My remarks were meant humourously; I really couldn't care less what strangers say about my mother (though I could argue it's calling others' mothers whores which marks the point of unseemly escalation, rather than my rejoinder thereto).
    , @SteveRogers42
    I gotta go with Otto on this one. That was a really heinous comment, and there's some insults that can't be tut-tutted away.

    If dueling was once again legal, public manners would improve.
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  116. Dan Hayes says:
    @res

    One thing the Navy did better than any other service from WWII on was to train radio and electronics technicians.
     
    How much of this do you think was due to the training and how much due to good personnel selection?

    The submarine guys were the best
     
    The submarine guys make a good example. I understand the US Navy submarine service is very selective.

    res,

    Yes, the US Navy submarine service is very selective but now in having coed crews – a sure recipe for tensions in tight submarine spaces.

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  117. @Dan Kurt
    re: "a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps" SFG

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    Dan Kurt

    There is a new, well-reviewed book on the subject: African Kaiser: General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck and the Great War in Africa, 1914-1918 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0425283712/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_scaUzbNAFXZ5J

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  118. @Dave Pinsen
    I think the idea is to prevent U.S.-based ISIS fans from targeting their families here.

    We should deal with(very harshly) any US based ISIS fans(and anyone close to them). But the figureheads won’t do this-remember when Drunk ‘n AWOL Bush expressed’compassion’ for American Taliban Lindh? At a point when we could have deported any Muslim(citizen or not) and simply wiped out much of Afghan/Paki where the ‘enemy’ was at-just bombed them like Dresden, slaughtering millions in a few days.
    And realistically the level of ‘ISIS fans’ in the US is so low that they’re more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver than by ISIS, at least within this nation. This disguise stunt is more likely a propaganda piece to show how important the effort is and maintain support for it, but the fact that we have to put women and trannies on the front lines shows that the populace is wising up-young males from rural/small city locales would rather be junkies than globalist hessians.

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    • Replies: @dr kill
    Boom!!!
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  119. @J.Ross
    The idea that the third world is unironically the goal is not new or original, though I am more used to seeing comparisons to Mexico or Brazil. Perhaps Derb is prevented from this particular iteration by knowing extenuating details about China.
    While I surely know a lot less than him, I have trouble with your idea on this point: China is a little left-over imperialism away from being one of the purest and largest ethno-states on Earth. While the low-level Han fully expect to be crushed by the juggernaut, it's their juggernaut. There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren't impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway). These points are totally incompatible with our doom from dissolution and our genocidally hostile elites. There are no small towns in rural ... uhhh ... Jiangsu, which are being forced to accept whole communities of Somalis or Chicagfricans, specifically to disrupt their unforgivable purity. In fact, nakedly racist rioting and lynch mobs are alive and well in China, and the government doesn't really mind them all that much.
    A lot of your other points are good but they do not gain anything by specifying China as opposed to your standard third world hellhole. I think the tldr is: the target is not white skin per se, the target is anything Blackstone or Maitland or Madison would recognize as English legal or governmental tradition. I have been saying that Obama and Holder were bringing in Chinese legal thinking, eg, ditching no ex post facto in favoring of non-enforcement of any laws they didn't like, but nevertheless leaving those laws on the books just in case you change your mind. That's what the Chinese did to their first modern import-export trade advisor.

    It is so so annoying that there are so many small brained british from the broad british diaspora who think they know so much about china, you guys know squat about china so just stop trying to fraternise with us, we know what your up to you race mixing degenerates and bad immunity people,we dont wanna race mix with inferior people, because half the kids will get the inferior R1b with its ugly skin and curly hair ,not to mention your small brains and bad immune system.So go away and mix with the black and browns, the most superior yellow skinned people are out of your league.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey, lighten up a bit, BBaSB, you're making Tiny Duck look like a Rhodes Scholar.
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  120. @Simon in London
    I doubt the Diversity hires are for internal suppression of the US population. The Navy is never good at that (nor is the Air Force). For internal suppression you want the Army filled with your guys. Ideally there is some kind of heavily armed paramilitary state security police you can call on, too.

    The problem is that the closest law enforcement analogous to a paramilitary – counter insurgent force is the US Border Patrol – filled with whites and hispanics who are fond of the saying “stay on your side of the fucking river”.

    Why do you think Trump has been keeping these guys happy while needling the FBI? They re part of his coup insurance.

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    • Replies: @Boethiuss


    Why do you think Trump has been keeping these guys happy while needling the FBI? They re part of his coup insurance.
     
    Coup insurance how? If the Trump Presidency ends before his term is over, it's because he was outmaneuvered politically, not taken over by force.

    And if it does come to that, what exactly is the Border Patrol going to prevent? Like the Border Patrol is really going to throw down against the CIA and the FBI. You do know that the Border Patrol has no useful intelligence, right? And the TLA's have lots of it.
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  121. @anon

    If that’s not it, then let’s meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.
     
    Please stop. This kind of stuff is boring. It's just not Unz-y. :(

    Fair enough. My remarks were meant humourously; I really couldn’t care less what strangers say about my mother (though I could argue it’s calling others’ mothers whores which marks the point of unseemly escalation, rather than my rejoinder thereto).

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  122. dr kill says:
    @res

    One thing the Navy did better than any other service from WWII on was to train radio and electronics technicians.
     
    How much of this do you think was due to the training and how much due to good personnel selection?

    The submarine guys were the best
     
    The submarine guys make a good example. I understand the US Navy submarine service is very selective.

    But half gay and the other half lez, what’s not to like? At least no one will be slingshot back to the States preggers.

    I’m trying for humor here, but what has been done to the US armed forces is not a joke. Is there anything that the Federal Gov can’t ruin? I can’t think of a single example.

    Anyone joining up now was just born wrong.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Is there anything that the Federal Gov can’t ruin?
     
    Whoa! Step off, dude! You are starting to sound like a constitutionalist or libertarian. Some 'round these parts don't take too kindly to that there kinda talk.
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  123. dr kill says:
    @Rantly McTirade
    We should deal with(very harshly) any US based ISIS fans(and anyone close to them). But the figureheads won't do this-remember when Drunk 'n AWOL Bush expressed'compassion' for American Taliban Lindh? At a point when we could have deported any Muslim(citizen or not) and simply wiped out much of Afghan/Paki where the 'enemy' was at-just bombed them like Dresden, slaughtering millions in a few days.
    And realistically the level of 'ISIS fans' in the US is so low that they're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver than by ISIS, at least within this nation. This disguise stunt is more likely a propaganda piece to show how important the effort is and maintain support for it, but the fact that we have to put women and trannies on the front lines shows that the populace is wising up-young males from rural/small city locales would rather be junkies than globalist hessians.

    Boom!!!

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  124. @Autochthon
    You ignore the fact that all the technology and financing enabling China's military (and everything else, for that matter) is stupidly given to them by what used to be the U.S.A.

    You also write as though the interests of Formosans were the interests of what used to be the U.S.A., and that defeating the one is to defeat the other.

    Autochthon, I heartily agree with your post #108 (in addition to #72 by Wilkey and #83 by neoconned). However, on this one, I don’t know what you mean at all by the financing bit. Do you mean financing the development of all the new technology?

    The Chinese have gotten access to American developed high-tech (not just electronics) via various ways – making deals or bribes with politicians (with Clinton as the worst example), via business deals in which they reneg and go on their own as soon as they have reverse-engineered what they need to, and via the 100′s of thousands of engineering students at Universities, National Labs and everywhere else. That is how it’s been, but I just don’t think they need us anymore for this either. I’m not saying they are great innovators, but they make everything now, so they have the human capital and infrastructure to go on their own.

    On the money end, China is one of the financiers of the US, not the other way around. If we ever got into a full out war with them, we’d be calling for a cease-fire to wait for parts shipments from CHINA. See, the huge advantage we have had militarily can only last so long before the money runs out. It’s all about our economy vs. the enemy’s economy unless there is just some short-lived skirmish. Look at WWII – historians will tell you that it was the powerful US economy and logistics (but you have to have LOTS of supplies and ships/vehicles/airplanes to do logistics right.) vs. Americans’ ability to fight vs. the Germans or Japs (not to knock any of them, BTW).

    Lastly, I absolutely agree on Formosa (thanks for using the correct spelling!). As soon as we knew the Commies were going to stay in charge on the mainland, what 1950, and later, say 1990′s, that the Chinese weren’t going to completely destroy the former nationalists on Formosa, it should have been the time to ease out of promising defense of that island. They do billions of dollars of business, maybe 100′s of billions in business together, and they aren’t gonna blow each other up. Why should a beyond-broke country like us stay in a treaty with Formosa, S. Korea, the Baltics, any of them? WE ARE BROKE!

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    This is what I mean by financing: if you sell things, your customers finance you. No customers, no sales, no money.
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  125. Mr. Anon says:
    @Lot
    I know of one military that fights jihadi terrorists rather than employs them as chaplains and hires them as psychologists. I thank the junior David Brooks for his service with our ally.

    But they don’t fight on our side, so they can’t really be called an ally.

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  126. @Autochthon
    You ignore the fact that all the technology and financing enabling China's military (and everything else, for that matter) is stupidly given to them by what used to be the U.S.A.

    You also write as though the interests of Formosans were the interests of what used to be the U.S.A., and that defeating the one is to defeat the other.

    Your post also reminded me of something that happened just today that I need to write up better on my blog. I know something about China and have been there a number of times. This is about “infrastructure”, not the more specific meaning of the term, as in roads, bridges, etc., but about just manufacturing infrastructure that we are losing daily.

    I have a piece of my vehicle, the inside rear-view mirror, that got damaged, and everyone tells me, just get a new one. It’s not that it’s the money, as it’s just a small piece of glass that’s broken, but a new one won’t be too awful much. However, I would save time if there were a glass shop that would (I checked around) just cut and sell me the piece so I could pop it in, but also I just HATE HATE HATE throwing good parts, the rest of it, that is, away. It irks me, but it’s the modern way.

    However, I could be out in the most backwards province in China, and go out of the apartment and within 1/2 mile probably I’d get the part I needed for cheap with a smile (well, they probably ripped me off over a Chinaman, hence the big smile ;-} I kid you not – there are small stores (the people live in back or on top), one with cables, chains, ropes and that, the next with motors, pumps, and that, the next with hoses of all kinds, sizes and colors … man, the place is a handyman’s paradise! Where is your nearest hardware store, and do the people in there know squat-all about working on anything at all, besides the old guy in the back??

    We are getting pathetic as far as human capital and DIY is concerned. Pretty soon young Americans will literally become the uncoordinated geeks, and the Chinese will be the can-do guys. OK, yeah, this has nothing to do with the Navy.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  127. Mr. Anon says:
    @Ed
    I don't even think the KKK is this white these days.

    I don’t even think the KKK is this white these days.

    Yeah, the FBI are really letting their standards slip.

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  128. @Achmed E. Newman
    Autochthon, I heartily agree with your post #108 (in addition to #72 by Wilkey and #83 by neoconned). However, on this one, I don't know what you mean at all by the financing bit. Do you mean financing the development of all the new technology?

    The Chinese have gotten access to American developed high-tech (not just electronics) via various ways - making deals or bribes with politicians (with Clinton as the worst example), via business deals in which they reneg and go on their own as soon as they have reverse-engineered what they need to, and via the 100's of thousands of engineering students at Universities, National Labs and everywhere else. That is how it's been, but I just don't think they need us anymore for this either. I'm not saying they are great innovators, but they make everything now, so they have the human capital and infrastructure to go on their own.

    On the money end, China is one of the financiers of the US, not the other way around. If we ever got into a full out war with them, we'd be calling for a cease-fire to wait for parts shipments from CHINA. See, the huge advantage we have had militarily can only last so long before the money runs out. It's all about our economy vs. the enemy's economy unless there is just some short-lived skirmish. Look at WWII - historians will tell you that it was the powerful US economy and logistics (but you have to have LOTS of supplies and ships/vehicles/airplanes to do logistics right.) vs. Americans' ability to fight vs. the Germans or Japs (not to knock any of them, BTW).

    Lastly, I absolutely agree on Formosa (thanks for using the correct spelling!). As soon as we knew the Commies were going to stay in charge on the mainland, what 1950, and later, say 1990's, that the Chinese weren't going to completely destroy the former nationalists on Formosa, it should have been the time to ease out of promising defense of that island. They do billions of dollars of business, maybe 100's of billions in business together, and they aren't gonna blow each other up. Why should a beyond-broke country like us stay in a treaty with Formosa, S. Korea, the Baltics, any of them? WE ARE BROKE!

    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    This is what I mean by financing: if you sell things, your customers finance you. No customers, no sales, no money.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    <>

    That was embarrassing....
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    China sells a whole lot to Europe, a whole hell of a lot to Japan, and the only reason I know of that they can't get rid of the export economy (with its peg of the Yuan to the Dollar) is just that the Commies-in-charge don't want that right now.

    In your scenario, I think both China and America would eventually be OK, but for America moreso, there would be a whole lot of financial pain first. I would like to think this over to really understand what would happen, as I've got to go in a minute. In a war, China would come out pretty well having their manufacturing capability as high as it is.

    Look, I am not a huge fan of China, but they have a REAL economy, which is more than you could say for us at this point - it is a propped-up ponzi scheme. I will write 2 posts on my blog about China soon, one about an experience with their free-market health-care system and another about the stuff I wrote earlier - you can freakin' get anything done here anymore hardly, if you like to do things yourself (BTW, spent 10 minutes waiting on some stupid voice-activated menu system just to ask one shop whether they sold the glass I wanted - well, I guess my time is more valuable blogging anyway. ;-} Have a good afternoon, AutoC.

    , @Anonymous

    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.
     
    Yes, and the DJIA would go back to 1965 levels. That would in turn put most of the .01% back in the middle class and we can not have that.
    , @Muse
    Maybe, but what if the Chinese raised wages and expanded consumer credit and just consumed all they produced without sending it here for worthless paper currency?
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  129. @basque british are small brained
    It is so so annoying that there are so many small brained british from the broad british diaspora who think they know so much about china, you guys know squat about china so just stop trying to fraternise with us, we know what your up to you race mixing degenerates and bad immunity people,we dont wanna race mix with inferior people, because half the kids will get the inferior R1b with its ugly skin and curly hair ,not to mention your small brains and bad immune system.So go away and mix with the black and browns, the most superior yellow skinned people are out of your league.

    Hey, lighten up a bit, BBaSB, you’re making Tiny Duck look like a Rhodes Scholar.

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  130. @dr kill
    But half gay and the other half lez, what's not to like? At least no one will be slingshot back to the States preggers.

    I'm trying for humor here, but what has been done to the US armed forces is not a joke. Is there anything that the Federal Gov can't ruin? I can't think of a single example.

    Anyone joining up now was just born wrong.

    Is there anything that the Federal Gov can’t ruin?

    Whoa! Step off, dude! You are starting to sound like a constitutionalist or libertarian. Some ’round these parts don’t take too kindly to that there kinda talk.

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  131. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Is that a picture of Hildog meeting the Liberian Navy?

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  132. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Autochthon

    For the navy, excluding aviators...it hasn't seen significant combat....
     
    Way to define favourable terms for your position.

    For my family, excluding my income, I'd say it hasn't earned any significant money....

    Of course, Dr. X remembers the good ole days with the line of battle, and someone around here is doubtless on again about the obsolescene of carriers....

    Include aviators, and that takes you back to Vietnam. I wouldn’t count dropping bombs on countries with no air forces to speak of significant combat.

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  133. @jimbojones
    You make great points, but I think that the Democrats are overplaying their hand substantially. I think that the following three scenarios are all far more likely than Democrat single-party rule akin to what Singapore, Japan and Sweden have experienced:
    - The Republicans actually succeed in attracting Latinos.
    - The Democratic party splits.
    - The United States breaks up.

    The Republican party is a disaster of its own; but the hubris, incompetence, and general insanity of the Democratic party became obvious to all who would see a year ago. It was not just Trump. The Democrats were trounced at every level.

    Probably true, Latinos are more working class and some don’t like the competition in the job market from Mexico. Dems started to go the Antifa route which turns off a lot of middle class folks.Also, Trump’s limiting illegal immigration is working since California of all places grew much higher in wages in the first quarter. This means heavily Hispanic Riverside which voted less than 10 for Clinton has a chance to pick up on Republicans in the next 5 years. More Middle class whites and Latino leave LA and OC for Riverside.

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  134. fish says:
    @Whiskey
    The composition of the military AFAIK is broken down to: fighting infantry, air combat units, artillery, tanks - mostly White. Spec Ops -- almost entirely White. Rear area maintenance and HQ people -- about half non-White mostly Black with a smattering of Hispanic and Asian.

    This matches the head of Equifax Security being a White woman with a couple of degrees in Music Composition from University of Georgia. Its a White male purge; and that will continue until massive failure brings about ... White male slavery.

    Really, Shaniqua from the hood is not about to forgo her EBT balance and Hillary! is not about to forgo having a huge military to whack people she does not like that day; and both pretty much require under the present system a series of Black/Female chiefs and semi-enserfed White men doing all the actual work.

    [Hillary! is making it clear she intends to run again and WIN against you deplorables. Because its her turn!]

    [Hillary! is making it clear she intends to run again and WIN against you deplorables. Because its her turn!]

    The Seinfeld scene (from the episode where Kramer takes up smoking) where Jackie Chiles tells opposing council “He’s a goblin. By the time this case gets to trial, he’ll be nothing more than a shrunken head.” springs to mind whenever the thought of Hillary Clinton running for public office again is raised!

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  135. bomag says:
    @Rod1963
    Even the conventional combat units are mostly white, you won't find blacks in them. If you watch the National Geographic specials on the Afghanistan fighting, it's mostly white guys with a smattering of Hispanics.

    Clinton hated that and I suspect so did Obama - that high concentration of highly trained and lethal whites. I also suspect they hated the fact that once those men left the service(especially the snipers) they just become part of the crowd.

    I also suspect they hated the fact that once those men left the service(especially the snipers) they just become part of the crowd.

    I didn’t follow it, but wasn’t there a suggestion under O to monitor discharged servicemen?

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  136. AB- says:
    @Pericles
    Since HMS Sheffield I assume any more serious naval war will quickly turn into a sinkfest.

    Since HMS Sheffield I assume any more serious naval war will quickly turn into a sinkfest.

    Probably been one shot, one kill for the last 40 years. But that would be first world militaries; turd world shitholes we’ve been in, not so much.

    I always thought if I ever was drafted into the military, last place I wanted to be was in something expensive enough to justify using a $100K+ missile on it. Like a tank. Or a ship or plane.

    Just me behind my boulder, they’d leave me alone. LOL

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Some naval engagements don't happen at all anymore. Consider the recent Tom Hanks movie about the Somali pirates.

    I read the press account and wondered how Hank's freighter would compare with a WWII vintage Liberty ship? Easy enough to look it up. The Liberty Ships often had a deck gun and all of them had a fifty caliber ("Ma Duce") machine gun. What did Hank's crew have to repel boarders?

    I saw the movie. They sprayed water on them.

    The pirates had small arms and no training. If Hank's guys had had even one light machine gun these ludicrous pirates would never had gotten aboard. What was the reason Hanks and his crew were captured? Answer: some benighted Politically Correct policy. When the potential murderers shoot their guns at you, give 'em a squirt. Get them wet.

    Worried about a Home Invasion? Get a water gun.
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  137. AB- says:
    @Dan Kurt
    re: "a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps" SFG

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    Dan Kurt

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck’s exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    So The Aftican Queen was historically correct? Those natives did seem to enjoy shooting at the two evile whites in the boat…..I wonder if any of their relatives lived in Dallas or Baton Rouge???

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  138. dearieme says:
    @Autochthon
    I accept your point.

    Those of us who have been in combat since the war in Viet Nam don't reckon there was anything insignificant about being shot at.

    Returning to the topic: it's true the quality of naval personnel suffer now just as they do in every other aspect of what used to be the U.S.A. With eleven carriers (and the John F. Kennedy under construction) and nine amphibious assault ships, plus all the cruisers, destroyers, submarines, frigates, and aircraft that go with them, though, that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time. I don't know that this is a good thing; I'm more inclined lately to cheer on anything that leads to the end of the current situation and an opportunity for a new, free nation to emerge from the ashes.

    “that navy is going to retain dominance for quite some time”: depends who it’s asked to fight. Those huge aircraft carriers may prove to be as obsolete as battleships during WWII if ever a war is fought against a country less raggedy-arsed than recent opponents.

    Submarines presumably aren’t obsolete: perhaps all surface ships are.

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  139. @Autochthon
    So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy?

    What naval combat have we faced in the Philippines since WWII? It was used as an R&R base during VN.

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  140. @David Davenport
    It is our idiotic morality that has prevented us from winning a war since 1945, and has also driven us to fight a lot of wars we never should have gotten into. It has nothing to do with the quality of our generals.

    Was defending Korea against Communist takeover in 1950 a mistake? A yes or no answer, please.

    Yes. South Korea was/is not worth one drop of American blood or one ounce of American gold.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Korea - that is South Korea - has the highest national IQ population on earth. It was a miserable poverty ridden frozen hell hole when I went to college to study how poor nations emerge from poverty. Know one as I remember picked Korea.

    Yet today there are financial magazines that predict that Korea's GNP will surpass that of the US in the foreseeable future. Korea is the miracle development story - not West Germany, not Japan. We should keep them as friends.
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  141. dearieme says:
    @Wilkey
    There is a justified understanding that what the State does is very loosely but concretely for the benefit of the Han race if not for each individual Han (who, being Orientals, aren’t impressed by individualism as a strategy anyway).

    Chinese people can be very ethnocentric, but they also seem to be very good at looking after numero uno. They are fiercely competitive even with each other. Perhaps that's why they've never been especially imperialistic or expansionist. You have to be selfless enough to want to die for the greater good. None of the model minority groups (Chinese, Indians, Jews) seem to want to join the military in any great numbers.

    The Japanese, OTOH, seem to be the more civic-minded, "crash my plane into this troop transport for the glory of the nation" types. So it is a bit more complicated than Oriental vs. Occidental.

    “that’s why they’ve never been especially imperialistic or expansionist”: on the contrary, Chinese history is about northern Chinese colonising the south. He was called the Chinese Emperor for a reason.

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  142. @Dave Pinsen
    Include aviators, and that takes you back to Vietnam. I wouldn't count dropping bombs on countries with no air forces to speak of significant combat.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Air combat by Navy pilots, not "naval combat" meaning ship to ship.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    When's the last time an American plane was shot down by an antiaircraft gun? I recall a low-flying A-10 getting shot down by a missile in Iraq, and a fighter getting shot down by a missile over Serbia in the late '90s.

    American air power probably hasn't faced significant air defense since Vietnam.

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  143. Pat Boyle says:
    @Dan Kurt
    re: "a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps" SFG

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    Dan Kurt

    Maybe that was the experience of the Germans in WWI but American experience was quite different. There have been at least a half dozen major black mutinies. These are easy to find in Wikipedia. In the majority of the cases the blacks shot at the whites and were only subdued by the force of arms.

    Everyone remembers the famous black fighter units of the Tuskegee Airmen. There was also a black bomber unit but all were imprisoned for mutiny. Blacks have routinely mutinied in the US Army while this has never happened with white units.

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Fascinating info! Thank you for posting.
    , @prusmc
    There used tobe a blog by a person named Paul Kersey called SBPDL which featured a couple of these mutinies. One in particular in Australia in 1942. After Charlottesville the blog disappeared.
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  144. Pat Boyle says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Battle of Savo Island near Guadalcanal a couple of months after Midway was pretty credible: in a night fight, the US lost three cruisers and the Australians one, with the Japanese not losing a ship.

    The Battle off Samar in October 1944 was a pretty desperate fight due to Halsey falling for the Japanese feint.

    The US Navy lost a lot of ships off Okinawa in 1945 due to kamikazes.

    This is creepy. I read the post that you responded to and went to the bathroom. While I was doing my business I thought about the battle of Savo Island and then I thought about Halsey’s error.

    I come back to the computer and find you have posted on exactly what I had been musing upon. So if you are going to continue to think my thoughts just before I think them, there is not much point in me thinking at all. Is there?

    Now turning off my brain. Click.

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  145. @Pat Boyle
    Maybe that was the experience of the Germans in WWI but American experience was quite different. There have been at least a half dozen major black mutinies. These are easy to find in Wikipedia. In the majority of the cases the blacks shot at the whites and were only subdued by the force of arms.

    Everyone remembers the famous black fighter units of the Tuskegee Airmen. There was also a black bomber unit but all were imprisoned for mutiny. Blacks have routinely mutinied in the US Army while this has never happened with white units.

    Fascinating info! Thank you for posting.

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  146. @Autochthon
    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    This is what I mean by financing: if you sell things, your customers finance you. No customers, no sales, no money.

    <>

    That was embarrassing….

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  147. Pat Boyle says:
    @AB-

    Since HMS Sheffield I assume any more serious naval war will quickly turn into a sinkfest.
     
    Probably been one shot, one kill for the last 40 years. But that would be first world militaries; turd world shitholes we've been in, not so much.

    I always thought if I ever was drafted into the military, last place I wanted to be was in something expensive enough to justify using a $100K+ missile on it. Like a tank. Or a ship or plane.

    Just me behind my boulder, they'd leave me alone. LOL

    Some naval engagements don’t happen at all anymore. Consider the recent Tom Hanks movie about the Somali pirates.

    I read the press account and wondered how Hank’s freighter would compare with a WWII vintage Liberty ship? Easy enough to look it up. The Liberty Ships often had a deck gun and all of them had a fifty caliber (“Ma Duce”) machine gun. What did Hank’s crew have to repel boarders?

    I saw the movie. They sprayed water on them.

    The pirates had small arms and no training. If Hank’s guys had had even one light machine gun these ludicrous pirates would never had gotten aboard. What was the reason Hanks and his crew were captured? Answer: some benighted Politically Correct policy. When the potential murderers shoot their guns at you, give ‘em a squirt. Get them wet.

    Worried about a Home Invasion? Get a water gun.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey, Pat, seriously on this one, I had thought the lack of weaponry was some kind of international law thing for merchant vessels. I remember reading about these big ships and thinking it ludicrous that they wouldn't have at least a few rifles. I know if I were Captain, there'd be some somewhere on the ship.

    Since you are reading, could you tell me what happened to sbpdl? I have tried to find it and had no lucke.
    , @Dmitry134564
    The events the book was based on were from 2009. In recent years, after the Somali pirates went through a short boom, most cargo ships in that region hire armed security to have on board (which unfortunately adds to shipping costs). And international forces police the area.
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  148. @Pericles
    Since HMS Sheffield I assume any more serious naval war will quickly turn into a sinkfest.

    The Sheffield-class ships were lightly armored, with aluminum hulls that tended to ignite. Their primary NATO mission was anti-submarine warfare, and it was not envisioned that they would become involved in surface actions. A steel-hulled WW2 destroyer was more heavily armored and would have been able to absorb that Exocet hit and keep fighting.

    At the time, I thought this would have been a clear lesson for naval architects, but now, looking at the damage inflicted on our destroyers by a couple of non-explosive collisions, I wonder whether all surface combatants are now lightly-armored for some reason that I’m sure makes sense to the bean-counters overseeing a peacetime navy.

    A great blog for all things naval is commandersalamander.com — those guys are pros.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    The Sheffield-class ships were lightly armored, with aluminum hulls that tended to ignite. Their primary NATO mission was anti-submarine warfare, and it was not envisioned that they would become involved in surface actions. A steel-hulled WW2 destroyer was more heavily armored and would have been able to absorb that Exocet hit and keep fighting.
     
    Urban myth, albeit widely believed. The Sheffield had both steel hull and superstructure.

    That being said, there was a trend back to steel ships in the 80s for at least a while.
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  149. Pat Boyle says:
    @The real enemy
    It's too bad Obama wasn't on one of these ships steered by a diversity recruit. In software we call that "eat your own dog food".

    Actually I eat my own dog food often. That’s because I buy fresh chicken for my little dog at the supermarket. I cook it in the microwave oven. He loves it and it is hardly much more money than commercial dog food. When I run out of meat I take some of the dog’s and fry it up.

    My puppy is a Papillion – a very small dog. If I had a full size dog I probably couldn’t do this.

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  150. @larry lurker
    One of the most alarming hatefacts I've come across - and I can't remember where I read it, but it was shortly after Trump made his Gold Star family gaffe and destroyed his chance at winning the presidency - but someone pointed out that since 9/11 there have been more American servicemen murdered by their Muslim American fellow soldiers (eighteen people - thirteen in the Ft. Hood shooting, five in Chattanooga) than Muslim American servicemen killed in action (ten to fourteen, according to Daily Mail.)

    Add in this fragging by Hasan Akbar in 2003, and the Muzzie “friendly fire” total rises to twenty.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Hasan_K._Akbar

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  151. @Rod1963
    The military does mirror the ethnic make up, but the blacks are highly concentrated in rear echolon units like logistics where the percentage is sky high(which is where a lot of rapes happened as well).

    Closer you get to shooting, the few there are. In some MOS's that require brains, they are non-existent for all practical purposes.

    If you don't think blacks can't revolt, you're wrong - there is a photo circulating of a bunch of current black West Pointer cadets doing the Black Panther - Black power salute after BLM was formed Must be 20 in the picture. They look like a bunch of 3rd world savages. The females were obese. They weren't disciplined either. If it was white cadets doing a stiff armed sig heil - they'd be kicked out so fast it would make your head spin.

    And once these savages get their commission God help the white troops under their command. They'll bust enlisted guys for sport.

    The thing about blacks in any organization, once they get over 12% or so, it causes problems. First off they congregate with one another - form a clique. And if they get management positions, they'll really f**k things up. On the streets a group of blacks signifies trouble. I don't care if you know one of them, in group, tribal dynamics hold sway and they revert to type. You're just some ghost or cracker to them at the point.

    It’s worth posting a copy of the photo so that we can all see where our tax dollars are going.

    Also, they are not only the “usual suspects”, they’re all chix! LOL!

    http://straightfromthea.com/2016/05/06/west-point-cadets-under-fire-for-blacklivesmatter-pic/

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  152. @JamesA
    It's worth noting that the push for women in combat roles is not because the rank and file are knocking down the doors of jobs for line troops, but because the privileged few women west pointers resent that they will never be chief of staff of the army without a combat leadership role.

    The two female-ish specimens they slid through Ranger School were ringknockers.

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  153. @J.Ross
    I might bring up William Lind's suggestion that the navy be maintained on a reserve basis, dramatically shrunk in size but keeping certain vital skills and capacities alive. Then again he also thought less than highly of the air force and was too easily impressed by the marines.
    But there is surely an attitude in our elites that getting the job done is not such a big deal, and forces from firefighters to fighter pilots can do their bit to absorb constituency hires.

    As of 2015, “the air force’s 9,000 combat pilots are at least 87% white.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/05/03/air-force-diversity/26731691/

    Sounds kind of strange to have exactly 9,000 pilots and then only able to estimate “at least 87% white”, but there you are.

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  154. @Autochthon

    Air combat by Navy pilots, not “naval combat” meaning ship to ship.

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  155. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Autochthon

    When’s the last time an American plane was shot down by an antiaircraft gun? I recall a low-flying A-10 getting shot down by a missile in Iraq, and a fighter getting shot down by a missile over Serbia in the late ’90s.

    American air power probably hasn’t faced significant air defense since Vietnam.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Knock yourself out.

    The data are from 2015, but close enough for government-work.

    You'll also note American birds have indeed not been lost often – but, crucially, it does happen, and it sure as Hell is significant to the aircrews it happens to. The infrequent losses do not reflect whether combat is significant; rather, they reflect American competence. Not since World War II has a defensive war been fought by Americans. By definition, military competence entails avoiding offensive action absent highly likely success whenever possible. ("We have a fifty-fifty chance, so let's pick a fight" is intrinsically reckless military planning.)

    Doubtless to everyone's delight (not least Steve's), I'm bored with the topic, and the moving goalposts if my interlocutors. It's damned hard to take out a superhornet without another fighter, but not all naval aircraft in combat are F/A-18s, or even growlers. If you're ever flown through the air spewing chaff and flares whilst taking fire, it sure as Hell is significant combat. If you don't want to take my word for it, give it a try sometime. Has the American navy as a whole faced an (active) existential threat since World War II? Of course not. Has it undertaken significant combat? Believe what you want from your armchair.
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  156. When I run out of meat I take some of the dog’s and fry it up.

    How does it taste? Like chicken? He must be a fast healer if he can regrow muscle that quickly. Kudos to your pooch.

    My puppy is a Papillion – a very small dog. If I had a full size dog I probably couldn’t do this.

    Wouldn’t it be easier with a bigger dog, what, with more muscle to gnaw on? Actually this whole post is starting to sound like Papillion, except substitute roaches for dog meat.

    I’ll give you credit – even the Koreans don’t go that far – they usually just eat the whole thing with some rice wine and seaweed.

    ;-}

    (C’mon guy! It’s so simple. Whatdya’ need a refresher course? It’s all grammar nowadays!)

    Look up “Eats, shoots, and leaves”, Pat.

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  157. Pat Boyle says:
    @Maj. Kong
    The only major naval wars have been the Falklands, and India-Pakistan 1971. At the same time, China hasn't fought a naval war since the 19th century, and supposedly only started sending its nuclear submarines on combat patrols last year. An engagement of two blue water peer adversaries is only likely in a total war scenario.

    Many have observed that ASW training and capability has withered since the end of the Cold War, and that more than anything else would be the USN's biggest problem.

    Politically, maintaining a large naval arm will become questionable. Most bases are located in coastal blue states, carriers and SSBNs are prohibitively expensive. We should not discount that if Trump wins again*, with a bigger margin, that California would secede taking away our main naval base in San Diego, and the secondary base is right across Puget Sound from socialist Seattle. (rural NorCal, known as 'Jefferson' would likely leave California).

    *This presumes that the Wall is built and major cuts to immigration are passed after a victory in the '18 Senate elections. Also assumes that the Arnold scenario doesn't happen.

    Your scenario is silly. After the Constitution was adopted several states toyed with the idea of leaving the union just as California is now. But even if California were to secede the US would likely keep San Diego like we have kept Guantanamo.

    When I came to California in the sixties all of Orange County was deeply Republican. Since then the state has elected a whole series of Republican governors. Currently we are going through a leftist phase. I don’t know quite why, but it certainly could reverse again.

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  158. @Pat Boyle
    Some naval engagements don't happen at all anymore. Consider the recent Tom Hanks movie about the Somali pirates.

    I read the press account and wondered how Hank's freighter would compare with a WWII vintage Liberty ship? Easy enough to look it up. The Liberty Ships often had a deck gun and all of them had a fifty caliber ("Ma Duce") machine gun. What did Hank's crew have to repel boarders?

    I saw the movie. They sprayed water on them.

    The pirates had small arms and no training. If Hank's guys had had even one light machine gun these ludicrous pirates would never had gotten aboard. What was the reason Hanks and his crew were captured? Answer: some benighted Politically Correct policy. When the potential murderers shoot their guns at you, give 'em a squirt. Get them wet.

    Worried about a Home Invasion? Get a water gun.

    Hey, Pat, seriously on this one, I had thought the lack of weaponry was some kind of international law thing for merchant vessels. I remember reading about these big ships and thinking it ludicrous that they wouldn’t have at least a few rifles. I know if I were Captain, there’d be some somewhere on the ship.

    Since you are reading, could you tell me what happened to sbpdl? I have tried to find it and had no lucke.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    I have no idea what happened to SBPDL. I just wrote to someone else about that same question. One day I was locked out. I thought at first that I had been banned. But that wasn't it.

    It may just be simple finances. People occasionally ask me why I don't have my own blog. The reason is simply time and money. I have at various times had various web sites but I never could conceive of a business model such that they would pay for themselves.

    Paul Kersey seems to have a wife and young baby. He spends a lot of time on the Web. Maybe he has had to get a regular job to support his family.
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  159. Pat Boyle says:
    @Chris Mallory
    Yes. South Korea was/is not worth one drop of American blood or one ounce of American gold.

    Korea – that is South Korea – has the highest national IQ population on earth. It was a miserable poverty ridden frozen hell hole when I went to college to study how poor nations emerge from poverty. Know one as I remember picked Korea.

    Yet today there are financial magazines that predict that Korea’s GNP will surpass that of the US in the foreseeable future. Korea is the miracle development story – not West Germany, not Japan. We should keep them as friends.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry134564
    I visited South Korea recently and for me it is still very undeveloped compared to Japan. Japanese cultural superiority is massively apparent if you stop over in both countries.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Pat Boyle:

    My late brother-in-law served in the Korean "Police Action." Many years later he told me that who would have believed when he served there that this poor country would became one of the world's major industrial powers!

    When I was in Ireland some years back I discovered that both railroad locomotives and earth-moving equipment were Korean-made.
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  160. @Autochthon
    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    This is what I mean by financing: if you sell things, your customers finance you. No customers, no sales, no money.

    China sells a whole lot to Europe, a whole hell of a lot to Japan, and the only reason I know of that they can’t get rid of the export economy (with its peg of the Yuan to the Dollar) is just that the Commies-in-charge don’t want that right now.

    In your scenario, I think both China and America would eventually be OK, but for America moreso, there would be a whole lot of financial pain first. I would like to think this over to really understand what would happen, as I’ve got to go in a minute. In a war, China would come out pretty well having their manufacturing capability as high as it is.

    Look, I am not a huge fan of China, but they have a REAL economy, which is more than you could say for us at this point – it is a propped-up ponzi scheme. I will write 2 posts on my blog about China soon, one about an experience with their free-market health-care system and another about the stuff I wrote earlier – you can freakin’ get anything done here anymore hardly, if you like to do things yourself (BTW, spent 10 minutes waiting on some stupid voice-activated menu system just to ask one shop whether they sold the glass I wanted – well, I guess my time is more valuable blogging anyway. ;-} Have a good afternoon, AutoC.

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  161. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon
    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    This is what I mean by financing: if you sell things, your customers finance you. No customers, no sales, no money.

    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    Yes, and the DJIA would go back to 1965 levels. That would in turn put most of the .01% back in the middle class and we can not have that.

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  162. Olorin says:
    @Pericles
    What will the Salon articles look like after a diverse force of firemen run into the inferno the next 9/11?

    If my experience among volunteer and professional firefighters in a 65% black city is any indication, the diversihires will run the other way while the old white guys who might be remaining will hang themselves on the cross of altruism.

    The diversihires will come back later when there’s something to loot.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Salon: "Stale pale males pushed their way to the best loot while PoC firefighters had the day off -- women hardest hit"
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  163. @Dave Pinsen
    When's the last time an American plane was shot down by an antiaircraft gun? I recall a low-flying A-10 getting shot down by a missile in Iraq, and a fighter getting shot down by a missile over Serbia in the late '90s.

    American air power probably hasn't faced significant air defense since Vietnam.

    Knock yourself out.

    The data are from 2015, but close enough for government-work.

    You’ll also note American birds have indeed not been lost often – but, crucially, it does happen, and it sure as Hell is significant to the aircrews it happens to. The infrequent losses do not reflect whether combat is significant; rather, they reflect American competence. Not since World War II has a defensive war been fought by Americans. By definition, military competence entails avoiding offensive action absent highly likely success whenever possible. (“We have a fifty-fifty chance, so let’s pick a fight” is intrinsically reckless military planning.)

    Doubtless to everyone’s delight (not least Steve’s), I’m bored with the topic, and the moving goalposts if my interlocutors. It’s damned hard to take out a superhornet without another fighter, but not all naval aircraft in combat are F/A-18s, or even growlers. If you’re ever flown through the air spewing chaff and flares whilst taking fire, it sure as Hell is significant combat. If you don’t want to take my word for it, give it a try sometime. Has the American navy as a whole faced an (active) existential threat since World War II? Of course not. Has it undertaken significant combat? Believe what you want from your armchair.

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  164. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The Idea that the Military trains its people in exiting new career fields is a total farce. Most of the major repairs for equipment like the M1 A1 Tank is totally beyond the capabilities of the average enlisted me.
    In fact the military has been trying to entice people with the necessary skills to maintain these highly technical machines. The problem is pay rates. A person right off the street isn’t going to be happy with the money. The military is currently offering needed people officer positions without the hassle of military school or any other training. But hey , it’s supposed to be a secret.

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  165. @Newyorker
    My son is a navy submarine nuke. There is no affirmative action in this area. A high score on th the ABSCAM test (spelling) is required, probably over the 95th percentile, and still there are many dropouts from the training.

    The stakes are just too high for this indulgence which is exactly what it is. OK for cooks and swab bing the deck. Even with the tough screening my son says there are graduates of the program he hopes never to serve with on a sub. But that's not AA at fault, just that some careless people not adequate screened out. I have to wonder if these accidents are the result of that ,or AA. The positions seem too high to leave to the possible in competency of an AA candidate.

    A high score on th the ABSCAM test (spelling) is required

    You probably mean the ASVAB, which stands for Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. ABSCAM was an FBI sting operation in 1980 which ensnared US Senator Harrison Williams from New Jersey among others.

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  166. Alfred says:
    @Dan Kurt
    re: "a largely black enlisted force might refuse to obey a largely white officer corps" SFG

    Read about German General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck's exploits fighting the British in Africa during WW1 where the German forces were less than 1/5th the Brits and allies and never were defeated. The Germans used Black troops commanded by White officers. The German Schutztruppe, white German commanders and black African soldiers called askaris, never exceeded 25,000 men. The Brits had more than 150,000 troops. The book The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918 by Byron Farwell(1986) gives the history from a British perspective but is readable. The Germans NEVER had a mutiny from their black troops.

    Dan Kurt

    Dan Kurt,

    Quite correct. BTW, “askari” is a Turkish word that was imported into Arabic and means “soldier”. Swahili contains many Arabic words.

    In a similar vein, in Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, the British would make a Northern Sudanese officer in charge of Egyptian troops. His second-in-command would be an Egyptian who would do all the paperwork and day-to-day stuff. The Sudanese commander would only take charge when there was some fighting to be done. The ordinary soldiers were terrified of him and would do as they were told. Apparently, this arrangement worked quite well.

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  167. @Anon
    I find it mystifying that Derbyshire and Sailer haven't yet commented on the irony of the US elite doing everything possible to turn their country into a version of China.

    China:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses and large corporations police speech, giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of China are obliterated or suppressed (Tibet)

    5. Obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: Taiwan, some worthless islands claimed by the Japanese, etc.

    US circa 2030:

    1. one-party dictatorship makes all the rules (no republican will ever be elected president due to ethnic block-voting, meaning one-party rule by the Democrats, America's official party - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists

    2. government outsources control of the masses to the wealthy upperclass (businesses, NGOs, and large corporations police speech: Apple, ADL/SPLC, Cloudflare, Goolag, YouTube, Twitter, etc. - giving an illusion of freedom where none/little actually exists)

    3. military and police forces used as a stick to beat the masses

    4. ethnic enclaves that could threaten the one-party rule of the Democrats are obliterated or suppressed (White Caucasians)

    5. obsession with outside powers to distract the masses: endless Middle Eastern wars.

    Republicans are dominant until 2024. Then, likely, the Democrats will recover. This is two-party rule.

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  168. @Pat Boyle
    Some naval engagements don't happen at all anymore. Consider the recent Tom Hanks movie about the Somali pirates.

    I read the press account and wondered how Hank's freighter would compare with a WWII vintage Liberty ship? Easy enough to look it up. The Liberty Ships often had a deck gun and all of them had a fifty caliber ("Ma Duce") machine gun. What did Hank's crew have to repel boarders?

    I saw the movie. They sprayed water on them.

    The pirates had small arms and no training. If Hank's guys had had even one light machine gun these ludicrous pirates would never had gotten aboard. What was the reason Hanks and his crew were captured? Answer: some benighted Politically Correct policy. When the potential murderers shoot their guns at you, give 'em a squirt. Get them wet.

    Worried about a Home Invasion? Get a water gun.

    The events the book was based on were from 2009. In recent years, after the Somali pirates went through a short boom, most cargo ships in that region hire armed security to have on board (which unfortunately adds to shipping costs). And international forces police the area.

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  169. @Pat Boyle
    Korea - that is South Korea - has the highest national IQ population on earth. It was a miserable poverty ridden frozen hell hole when I went to college to study how poor nations emerge from poverty. Know one as I remember picked Korea.

    Yet today there are financial magazines that predict that Korea's GNP will surpass that of the US in the foreseeable future. Korea is the miracle development story - not West Germany, not Japan. We should keep them as friends.

    I visited South Korea recently and for me it is still very undeveloped compared to Japan. Japanese cultural superiority is massively apparent if you stop over in both countries.

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  170. @Simon in London
    Has any Western navy lost ships in battle since the 1982 Falklands War? I recall the Israelis lost a small ship to a Hezbollah missile in the 2006 war; I can't recall *anyone* losing a ship in battle since then.

    Google for Saudi ships lost in Yemen war.

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  171. Muse says:
    @Autochthon
    If, tomorrow, what used to be the U.S.A. ended all trade with China (i.e., stopped buying their products), China would be in an economic nose-dive within a week – Americans, in the other hand, would start being paid a living wage and worshipping consumerism.

    This is what I mean by financing: if you sell things, your customers finance you. No customers, no sales, no money.

    Maybe, but what if the Chinese raised wages and expanded consumer credit and just consumed all they produced without sending it here for worthless paper currency?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Then they'd be the one's with an economy built on inflation and consumer-debt.

    By the way, earlier of course I meant to correct my writing to "...might stop worshipping consumerism."

    There is much to be said, by the way, for also barring the Chinese from attending universities in what used to be the U.S.A., owning realty here, and spawning their brats here to bilk the monumentally stupid misapplication of the Fourteenth Amendment. The H1-B scam (including its free Medicare and Social Security for as many toothless relatives can be dragged along – Orientals are famous for their longevity, so those costs are bound to be high...) is also worth considering in such calculations, as well as an overdue reciprocal demand the Chinese who want to do business here invest here and establish manufacturies and R&D facilities for the privilege (so we can steal their intellectual property for a while...) – fun fact (I think I have mentioned it here before – iPhones are made in China and Brasil...because the Brasilians demand it as a condition of their being sold there (India imposes similar restrictions on foreigners doing business there; don't tell me the U.S.A. hs less bargaining power than India and Brasil...).

    Addressing those problems would do wonders.

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  172. Hibernian says:
    @Rantly McTirade
    The US military hasn't had an actual win in 72 years, since August 1945. look at the record:
    Korea-draw
    Vietnam-loss
    Gulf War- a win that degenerated into a draw within six months of ending.
    Afghanistan-On the lose side of a draw.
    Iraq-draw, leaning towards a loss.
    And if you want to count small adventures like Grenada and Panama as wins, then you have to count other small adventures, like the attempted Iran hostage rescue and Somalia, as losses.
    Why do these hacks deserve any respect, especially the 'leaders' like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, etc. No better than the justly abused 'Crapversity is our stench' Casey. And the grunts and shmoes at lower levels have chosen to cast their lot with a loser outfit that's simply another giant tit of the welfare state, with no actual success at its stated mission(course thats not the true mission, now is it)-why are we near worshiping these folks? Their pay, benefits and job security are better than most of the private citizens whose taxes help fund this boondoggle. But at least the global supply chain, and dollar reserve currency status, are safe, eh.

    “Gulf War- a win that degenerated into a draw within six months of ending.”

    Will Rogers, presumably pre-Korea (I think he died in a plane crash in the mid ’30s.) said we never lost a war and never won a peace conference. It was mainly, I think, a reference to WWI and Vesailles.

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  173. Wally says:
    @Maj. Kong
    The continued stability of the US likely depends on an immigration moratorium, which must be passed over the virulent objections of the Hispanic/Asian/Jewish ethnic lobbies. We will need a sizable minority of those groups to make peace with white identity politics. I suspect that a populist GOP running on a record of 4% growth could get 20-25% of the black vote on a much reduced turnout, potentially winning Illinois.

    If the GOP wants to keep winning elections, it needs to attack the Silicon Dons and break up their monopolies.

    2010 Dems lost the House
    2012 Dems lost the Senate
    2016 Dems lost the White House

    The Democrats lost more than 1,000 seats at the federal and state level during Obama’s presidency, including 9 Senate seats, 62 House seats, 12 governorships, and a startling 958 state legislative seats.

    counties, 2016 election:

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    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Then why the !@#$%^ does their agenda keep advancing?? Fat lot of good it does us to elect Republicans and still have the cultural rot and exploding gov't. Oh, and I still can't buy the health insurance I need. Jerks. All of them.
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  174. KenH says:

    The Russians and Chinese are probably loving this. Their militaries are racially homogeneous and based on merit. It’s no secret who will win if and when hostilities break out.

    The Russians and Chinese are right to play for time knowing that we get more racially diverse and insane with each passing year.

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  175. @Wally
    2010 Dems lost the House
    2012 Dems lost the Senate
    2016 Dems lost the White House

    The Democrats lost more than 1,000 seats at the federal and state level during Obama’s presidency, including 9 Senate seats, 62 House seats, 12 governorships, and a startling 958 state legislative seats.

    counties, 2016 election:

    https://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png

    Then why the !@#$%^ does their agenda keep advancing?? Fat lot of good it does us to elect Republicans and still have the cultural rot and exploding gov’t. Oh, and I still can’t buy the health insurance I need. Jerks. All of them.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Proof that elections mean precious little.
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  176. @anon

    If that’s not it, then let’s meet for drinks the next time you are in California; I can demonstrate significant combat to you firsthand.
     
    Please stop. This kind of stuff is boring. It's just not Unz-y. :(

    I gotta go with Otto on this one. That was a really heinous comment, and there’s some insults that can’t be tut-tutted away.

    If dueling was once again legal, public manners would improve.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Boring and silly. The silliness started with Otto's So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy? so there's enough blame to go around. Talk of if dueling .... a bit too hypothetical isn't it? Dueling not making a comeback seems much more likely. I come to Unz for the interesting stuff and the humor. Name-calling and "the dozens" don't do it for me. I'll shut up now and stop being the form prefect.
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  177. @StillCARealist
    Then why the !@#$%^ does their agenda keep advancing?? Fat lot of good it does us to elect Republicans and still have the cultural rot and exploding gov't. Oh, and I still can't buy the health insurance I need. Jerks. All of them.

    Proof that elections mean precious little.

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  178. @Simon in London
    Has any Western navy lost ships in battle since the 1982 Falklands War? I recall the Israelis lost a small ship to a Hezbollah missile in the 2006 war; I can't recall *anyone* losing a ship in battle since then.

    Has any Western navy lost ships in battle since the 1982 Falklands War? I recall the Israelis lost a small ship to a Hezbollah missile in the 2006 war; I can’t recall *anyone* losing a ship in battle since then.

    No American “ships” “lost” in “battle,” as the words are usually defined.

    In April 1988 the USS Samuel B. Roberts struck and was damaged by an Iranian mine in the Persian Gulf.

    Am Iraqi flying a French-made warplane* badly damaged the USS Stark with two Exocet missiles in the Persian Gulf in May 1987. The warplane may have been a Super Etendard fighter or a modified Dassault business jet. Accounts are not clear as to which type of airplane.

    A small boat loaded with explosives damaged the USS Cole at dockside in Aden in October 2000.

    Both attacks were surprise attacks. All three warships were repaired and returned to service. Dead sailors could not be brought back to life, however.

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  179. Dan Hayes says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Korea - that is South Korea - has the highest national IQ population on earth. It was a miserable poverty ridden frozen hell hole when I went to college to study how poor nations emerge from poverty. Know one as I remember picked Korea.

    Yet today there are financial magazines that predict that Korea's GNP will surpass that of the US in the foreseeable future. Korea is the miracle development story - not West Germany, not Japan. We should keep them as friends.

    Pat Boyle:

    My late brother-in-law served in the Korean “Police Action.” Many years later he told me that who would have believed when he served there that this poor country would became one of the world’s major industrial powers!

    When I was in Ireland some years back I discovered that both railroad locomotives and earth-moving equipment were Korean-made.

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  180. anonguy says:
    @SteveRogers42
    The Sheffield-class ships were lightly armored, with aluminum hulls that tended to ignite. Their primary NATO mission was anti-submarine warfare, and it was not envisioned that they would become involved in surface actions. A steel-hulled WW2 destroyer was more heavily armored and would have been able to absorb that Exocet hit and keep fighting.

    At the time, I thought this would have been a clear lesson for naval architects, but now, looking at the damage inflicted on our destroyers by a couple of non-explosive collisions, I wonder whether all surface combatants are now lightly-armored for some reason that I'm sure makes sense to the bean-counters overseeing a peacetime navy.

    A great blog for all things naval is commandersalamander.com -- those guys are pros.

    The Sheffield-class ships were lightly armored, with aluminum hulls that tended to ignite. Their primary NATO mission was anti-submarine warfare, and it was not envisioned that they would become involved in surface actions. A steel-hulled WW2 destroyer was more heavily armored and would have been able to absorb that Exocet hit and keep fighting.

    Urban myth, albeit widely believed. The Sheffield had both steel hull and superstructure.

    That being said, there was a trend back to steel ships in the 80s for at least a while.

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  181. Peepul asserting that “The US hasn’t won a war since 1945″ irritate me. That’s Russian, Chinese , and Muzzum propaganda you’re parroting.

    Likewise, the claim that American soldiers and sailors should be able to repair complicated AEGIS system hardware or software at sea is silly, and smells of low-rent Commie propaganda.

    Oh yeah, China’s pulling ahead, because you can get your rear view mirror repaired instead of replaced there. BFD even if true. I think we have some Chinaboy boot lickers here trying to pass themselves off as concerned hyper patriotic Americans. US sailors and soldiers don’t know how to repair stuff, but in China they fix all kinds of things in little shops. What a coincidence that these yarns appear on this talkboard thread.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Oh yeah, China’s pulling ahead, because you can get your rear view mirror repaired instead of replaced there. BFD even if true. I think we have some Chinaboy boot lickers here trying to pass themselves off as concerned hyper patriotic Americans. US sailors and soldiers don’t know how to repair stuff, but in China they fix all kinds of things in little shops. What a coincidence that these yarns appear on this talkboard thread.
     
    You're taking things the wrong way, Mr. Davenport. My point is, that we are losing our human capital and manufacturing abilities. China makes everything. Do you deny that?

    The discussion here was about how America would fare in a war with a serious enemy (probably not matched completely in size with our military, but on up there). I'm telling you that in other than a short-term skirmish, the economy matters. US economic might and ability relative to our enemies is so much lower than what we had during WWII times, I don't know how long we'd last.

    Hey, I have good and bad to say about China, but that doesn't stop me from being a patriot. A patriot is not the one who cheers on the US's destruction and killing all over the world for "a common defense", as it is part of the cause of our own destruction. Yeah, spreading the shit out of our freedom all over the world.

    Also, when it come to China, we may be taken over without a shot, as they can take their dollars made by selling us the consumer crap, and buy pretty big chunks of our landscape. It's the "golden rule" - "He who has the gold makes the rules".
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  182. @Muse
    Maybe, but what if the Chinese raised wages and expanded consumer credit and just consumed all they produced without sending it here for worthless paper currency?

    Then they’d be the one’s with an economy built on inflation and consumer-debt.

    By the way, earlier of course I meant to correct my writing to “…might stop worshipping consumerism.”

    There is much to be said, by the way, for also barring the Chinese from attending universities in what used to be the U.S.A., owning realty here, and spawning their brats here to bilk the monumentally stupid misapplication of the Fourteenth Amendment. The H1-B scam (including its free Medicare and Social Security for as many toothless relatives can be dragged along – Orientals are famous for their longevity, so those costs are bound to be high…) is also worth considering in such calculations, as well as an overdue reciprocal demand the Chinese who want to do business here invest here and establish manufacturies and R&D facilities for the privilege (so we can steal their intellectual property for a while…) – fun fact (I think I have mentioned it here before – iPhones are made in China and Brasil…because the Brasilians demand it as a condition of their being sold there (India imposes similar restrictions on foreigners doing business there; don’t tell me the U.S.A. hs less bargaining power than India and Brasil…).

    Addressing those problems would do wonders.

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  183. Boethiuss says:
    @Jack Hanson
    The problem is that the closest law enforcement analogous to a paramilitary - counter insurgent force is the US Border Patrol - filled with whites and hispanics who are fond of the saying "stay on your side of the fucking river".

    Why do you think Trump has been keeping these guys happy while needling the FBI? They re part of his coup insurance.

    Why do you think Trump has been keeping these guys happy while needling the FBI? They re part of his coup insurance.

    Coup insurance how? If the Trump Presidency ends before his term is over, it’s because he was outmaneuvered politically, not taken over by force.

    And if it does come to that, what exactly is the Border Patrol going to prevent? Like the Border Patrol is really going to throw down against the CIA and the FBI. You do know that the Border Patrol has no useful intelligence, right? And the TLA’s have lots of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    This is why you were embarrassed so badly post election you hid for months on end: because you open your mouth and everyone gets that you're clueless.

    18k armed Border Patrol agents versus 5000 desk bound gold badge FBI agents and a handful of CIA SAD officers.

    Lmbo and you argue "muh Intel". Put down the Tom Clancy before you have to change your name a third time.
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  184. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @SteveRogers42
    I gotta go with Otto on this one. That was a really heinous comment, and there's some insults that can't be tut-tutted away.

    If dueling was once again legal, public manners would improve.

    Boring and silly. The silliness started with Otto’s So you were in the Philippines with my father, were you, tough guy? so there’s enough blame to go around. Talk of if dueling …. a bit too hypothetical isn’t it? Dueling not making a comeback seems much more likely. I come to Unz for the interesting stuff and the humor. Name-calling and “the dozens” don’t do it for me. I’ll shut up now and stop being the form prefect.

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  185. The Sheffield-class ships were lightly armored, with aluminum hulls that tended to ignite. Their primary NATO mission was anti-submarine warfare, and it was not envisioned that they would become involved in surface actions. A steel-hulled WW2 destroyer was more heavily armored and would have been able to absorb that Exocet hit and keep fighting.

    The Roberts and the the Stark were also aluminum hulled frigates. ( Frigates: previously known as “destroyer escorts.” ) ( To UK denizens: “Aluminum”: is a word with four syllables, not five. )

    Aluminum hull construction has its pros and cons. See Advances in Aluminum Relative to Ship Survivability

    The US Navy’s Littoral Combat ships, smaller and newer than frigates, have aluminum hulls.

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  186. Pericles says:
    @Olorin
    If my experience among volunteer and professional firefighters in a 65% black city is any indication, the diversihires will run the other way while the old white guys who might be remaining will hang themselves on the cross of altruism.

    The diversihires will come back later when there's something to loot.

    Salon: “Stale pale males pushed their way to the best loot while PoC firefighters had the day off — women hardest hit”

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  187. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous coward

    ...even the dullards that dominate the nation’s populace will eventually realize this and quit ‘supporting’(i.e., perfunctory adulation and willful neglect of their actions) them, potentially forcing them to get real(or nearly so) jobs.
     
    When exactly this happened during USSR's collapse, it turned out that 'real jobs' for these dudes involve various flavors of organized crime.

    Not a good situation.

    At least then we can stop outsourcing organized crime to the El Salvadorans.

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  188. Studley says:
    @Autochthon
    I agree completely; there is no excuse for ignorance of one's coordinates in littoral operations off a hostile coast, hence that LT should have been on the horn with his ship for assistance as soon as the engines failed and the dangers of drifting arose. Failing that, he went on to surrender his vessel to the enemy – without a fight! He then went on to record messages condemning the U.S.A. during capitivity.

    The guy should be in Leavenworth.

    Is this really the case?

    Jon Paul Jones and all that but you’re arguing a ship’s captain can never strike the colours (non-us spelling)?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I'm not up on the current, official standard operating procedures, but I was trained from Great Mistakes forward to never, never surrender unless resistance was literally impossible. Maybe I had especially pugnacious chiefs and sergeants, but this comports with the Code of Conduct (Executive Order 10631 – which every recruit can recite from memory before becoming a sailor, and which applies to all soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coastguardsmen when under control of the navy for combat):

    I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

    I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

    If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

    If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

    When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

    I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.
     
    Sadly, it's mostly corny and meaningless stuff now that the U.S.A. is effectively a failed state cum empire for nationless corporations, but presumably those still volunteering for the navy believe it, and if you believe it, it is a serious commitment. It is especially serious for sailors because surrendering an operative vessel makes it Christmas morning for the bad guys: you are handing them a bigger stick to beat you with and a plethora of classified equipment. (Not so bad with a mere boat, as here, but still applicable....) An infantry unit's surrender of rifle and hummers is generally more like, maybe, just Hannukah....

    Now, you can parse this commitment if you want, but it is not a close call in this instance: if I were unarmed and adrift in wreckage, would I surrender to an enemy vessel? Probably. If I were in a well-armed, fast, littoral boat with heavy machine-guns, and (presumably) sidearms and rifles, with the cruiser Anzio and the carrier Harry S. Truman nearby (with the nation-crushing power those vessels wield), would I surrender without a shot fired to an Iranian? Hah! Nail the colours.

    It may be there is more than meets the eye to the whole imbroglio.

    A retired captain's (solid) analysis made the San Diego Tribune.

    It turns out the commanding lieutenant and others were in fact castigated (albeit mildly, nevertheless their careers may well have effectively been ruined by this mark on their records...).

    Now for the hinky stuff: the Washington Times suggests the whole mess was maybe due to Obama's cozying up to Iran.

    A former SEAL calls the whole official story bologna (he makes good arguments): he suggests the captured sailors were idiots, scapegoats, or both.

    Here's one other conspiracy-theory take on it.

    I readily confess lack of sufficient expertise to opine at this level of detail: I was an avionics technican, so I never set foot in one of these boats.
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  189. @David Davenport
    Peepul asserting that "The US hasn't won a war since 1945" irritate me. That's Russian, Chinese , and Muzzum propaganda you're parroting.

    Likewise, the claim that American soldiers and sailors should be able to repair complicated AEGIS system hardware or software at sea is silly, and smells of low-rent Commie propaganda.

    Oh yeah, China's pulling ahead, because you can get your rear view mirror repaired instead of replaced there. BFD even if true. I think we have some Chinaboy boot lickers here trying to pass themselves off as concerned hyper patriotic Americans. US sailors and soldiers don't know how to repair stuff, but in China they fix all kinds of things in little shops. What a coincidence that these yarns appear on this talkboard thread.

    Oh yeah, China’s pulling ahead, because you can get your rear view mirror repaired instead of replaced there. BFD even if true. I think we have some Chinaboy boot lickers here trying to pass themselves off as concerned hyper patriotic Americans. US sailors and soldiers don’t know how to repair stuff, but in China they fix all kinds of things in little shops. What a coincidence that these yarns appear on this talkboard thread.

    You’re taking things the wrong way, Mr. Davenport. My point is, that we are losing our human capital and manufacturing abilities. China makes everything. Do you deny that?

    The discussion here was about how America would fare in a war with a serious enemy (probably not matched completely in size with our military, but on up there). I’m telling you that in other than a short-term skirmish, the economy matters. US economic might and ability relative to our enemies is so much lower than what we had during WWII times, I don’t know how long we’d last.

    Hey, I have good and bad to say about China, but that doesn’t stop me from being a patriot. A patriot is not the one who cheers on the US’s destruction and killing all over the world for “a common defense”, as it is part of the cause of our own destruction. Yeah, spreading the shit out of our freedom all over the world.

    Also, when it come to China, we may be taken over without a shot, as they can take their dollars made by selling us the consumer crap, and buy pretty big chunks of our landscape. It’s the “golden rule” – “He who has the gold makes the rules”.

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  190. prusmc says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Maybe that was the experience of the Germans in WWI but American experience was quite different. There have been at least a half dozen major black mutinies. These are easy to find in Wikipedia. In the majority of the cases the blacks shot at the whites and were only subdued by the force of arms.

    Everyone remembers the famous black fighter units of the Tuskegee Airmen. There was also a black bomber unit but all were imprisoned for mutiny. Blacks have routinely mutinied in the US Army while this has never happened with white units.

    There used tobe a blog by a person named Paul Kersey called SBPDL which featured a couple of these mutinies. One in particular in Australia in 1942. After Charlottesville the blog disappeared.

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  191. @Studley
    Is this really the case?

    Jon Paul Jones and all that but you're arguing a ship's captain can never strike the colours (non-us spelling)?

    I’m not up on the current, official standard operating procedures, but I was trained from Great Mistakes forward to never, never surrender unless resistance was literally impossible. Maybe I had especially pugnacious chiefs and sergeants, but this comports with the Code of Conduct (Executive Order 10631 – which every recruit can recite from memory before becoming a sailor, and which applies to all soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coastguardsmen when under control of the navy for combat):

    I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

    I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

    If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

    If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

    When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

    I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

    Sadly, it’s mostly corny and meaningless stuff now that the U.S.A. is effectively a failed state cum empire for nationless corporations, but presumably those still volunteering for the navy believe it, and if you believe it, it is a serious commitment. It is especially serious for sailors because surrendering an operative vessel makes it Christmas morning for the bad guys: you are handing them a bigger stick to beat you with and a plethora of classified equipment. (Not so bad with a mere boat, as here, but still applicable….) An infantry unit’s surrender of rifle and hummers is generally more like, maybe, just Hannukah….

    Now, you can parse this commitment if you want, but it is not a close call in this instance: if I were unarmed and adrift in wreckage, would I surrender to an enemy vessel? Probably. If I were in a well-armed, fast, littoral boat with heavy machine-guns, and (presumably) sidearms and rifles, with the cruiser Anzio and the carrier Harry S. Truman nearby (with the nation-crushing power those vessels wield), would I surrender without a shot fired to an Iranian? Hah! Nail the colours.

    It may be there is more than meets the eye to the whole imbroglio.

    A retired captain’s (solid) analysis made the San Diego Tribune.

    It turns out the commanding lieutenant and others were in fact castigated (albeit mildly, nevertheless their careers may well have effectively been ruined by this mark on their records…).

    Now for the hinky stuff: the Washington Times suggests the whole mess was maybe due to Obama’s cozying up to Iran.

    A former SEAL calls the whole official story bologna (he makes good arguments): he suggests the captured sailors were idiots, scapegoats, or both.

    Here’s one other conspiracy-theory take on it.

    I readily confess lack of sufficient expertise to opine at this level of detail: I was an avionics technican, so I never set foot in one of these boats.

    Read More
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  192. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I’m a served Naval officer and have had a couple close calls at sea (especially my first watch as OOD). I don’t know if there were systemic issues with those ships that collided (or that fleet) or if it was just garden variety fuckups. I would be wary of jumping to meta conclusions.

    At least start with an understanding of what actually happened with lookouts, QM, CIC, OOD, etc. before extrapolating to meta causes. All the reporting so far is totally deficient in any intel on what happened on the bridge. Training matters, but even here what matters is the actual OJT training in qualification. Not some blabla about the gazillion different readiness standards that targets, I mean surface ships, torture themselves with.

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  193. Pat Boyle says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey, Pat, seriously on this one, I had thought the lack of weaponry was some kind of international law thing for merchant vessels. I remember reading about these big ships and thinking it ludicrous that they wouldn't have at least a few rifles. I know if I were Captain, there'd be some somewhere on the ship.

    Since you are reading, could you tell me what happened to sbpdl? I have tried to find it and had no lucke.

    I have no idea what happened to SBPDL. I just wrote to someone else about that same question. One day I was locked out. I thought at first that I had been banned. But that wasn’t it.

    It may just be simple finances. People occasionally ask me why I don’t have my own blog. The reason is simply time and money. I have at various times had various web sites but I never could conceive of a business model such that they would pay for themselves.

    Paul Kersey seems to have a wife and young baby. He spends a lot of time on the Web. Maybe he has had to get a regular job to support his family.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Well, as you know, he had a lot of commenters, and a bunch of books out. I don't think he was about to give up anything, and he would have written a goodbye post or two if he did that. No, I'm pretty sure blogspot fucked with his site, and maybe he got worse treatment from google (I think the owner or they are related to blogspot). That's why you end up at google when you try to get to Kersey's (ex-)site.

    I asked you because my web searches turn up nothing, though about 2 weeks back I could find his old wordpress site. People need to keep up with this web censorship stuff, as it's getting real now. OK, thanks for the reply.
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  194. @Pat Boyle
    I have no idea what happened to SBPDL. I just wrote to someone else about that same question. One day I was locked out. I thought at first that I had been banned. But that wasn't it.

    It may just be simple finances. People occasionally ask me why I don't have my own blog. The reason is simply time and money. I have at various times had various web sites but I never could conceive of a business model such that they would pay for themselves.

    Paul Kersey seems to have a wife and young baby. He spends a lot of time on the Web. Maybe he has had to get a regular job to support his family.

    Well, as you know, he had a lot of commenters, and a bunch of books out. I don’t think he was about to give up anything, and he would have written a goodbye post or two if he did that. No, I’m pretty sure blogspot fucked with his site, and maybe he got worse treatment from google (I think the owner or they are related to blogspot). That’s why you end up at google when you try to get to Kersey’s (ex-)site.

    I asked you because my web searches turn up nothing, though about 2 weeks back I could find his old wordpress site. People need to keep up with this web censorship stuff, as it’s getting real now. OK, thanks for the reply.

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  195. @Boethiuss


    Why do you think Trump has been keeping these guys happy while needling the FBI? They re part of his coup insurance.
     
    Coup insurance how? If the Trump Presidency ends before his term is over, it's because he was outmaneuvered politically, not taken over by force.

    And if it does come to that, what exactly is the Border Patrol going to prevent? Like the Border Patrol is really going to throw down against the CIA and the FBI. You do know that the Border Patrol has no useful intelligence, right? And the TLA's have lots of it.

    This is why you were embarrassed so badly post election you hid for months on end: because you open your mouth and everyone gets that you’re clueless.

    18k armed Border Patrol agents versus 5000 desk bound gold badge FBI agents and a handful of CIA SAD officers.

    Lmbo and you argue “muh Intel”. Put down the Tom Clancy before you have to change your name a third time.

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  196. Boethiuss says:

    18k armed Border Patrol agents versus 5000 desk bound gold badge FBI agents and a handful of CIA SAD officers.

    Lmbo and you argue “muh Intel”. Put down the Tom Clancy before you have to change your name a third time.

    Got me there, Sherlock, nothing gets past you. House, MD can’t even hold a candle.

    And who’s been reading Tom Clancy? You’re the one who says the Border Patrol is now the super Secret Service for Donald Trump.

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