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Late Bronze Age Collapse and Migration
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Razib Khan summarizes a new paper, Estimating mobility using sparse data: Application to human genetic variation, on using new genomic data to measure migrations down through prehistory in Western Eurasia.

Screenshot 2018-09-23 02.44.16

It turns out that there were three eras of massive migration in the post-Ice Age ancient West, each, perhaps, involving a fairly new technology:

- the invention of agriculture, which encouraged Middle Eastern farmers to invade Europe

- the rise of the Bronze Age, such as the Yamnaya (Aryan) steppe people’s invasion of Northern Europe

- and the rise of the Iron Age, which may be involved with the mysterious Sea Peoples’ attacks on the palace civilizations of the Near East during the Late Bronze Age Collapse around 1200 BC.

On the other hand, I could be wrong about the technology connections to these ages of mass migrations.

In between, people tended to settle down where they were and not feel the need so much to “Go to interesting places, meet interesting people, and kill them.”

 
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  1. Anon[154] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    The widow Jobs’ Quartz publication has an idiotic subsection called Quartz Africa, always good for a laugh.

    https://qz.com/africa/

    What follows is a troubling story from Africa.

    The danger of the innovation narrative becoming a distraction in Africa

    https://qz.com/africa/1397982/the-danger-of-the-innovation-narrative-becoming-a-distraction-in-africa/

    Bright Simons reports from Ghana that sub-Saharan Africa stands on the brink of a dangerous precipice.

    Having missed the “first two waves of economic transformation, almost completely,” namely the agricultural revolution and the industrial revolution, Africa may be missing the next big revolution of civilization, the “asymptotic innovation wave,” which somehow involves the “digitalization of all industries,” which, remember, Africa doesn’t have anyway because it missed the last revolution.

    To be blunt, Africa’s “production of digital products has not kept pace. Its share of global patent filings, licensing & other royalties’ income, and contribution to IT standards and protocols worldwide, has remained consistently below 1 percent,” and it is “not showing evidence of using early gains to radically unsettle production models and increase its share of the global growth boon.”

    The dangers go on and on. Africa is nowheresville in biotech and artificial intelligence. Most African start-ups involve carpetbaggers from outside of Africa, who hold most of the equity.

    One ray of hope: The worrisome low level of sub-Saharan human capital may become irrelevant after “machines acquire cognitive capabilities currently only accessible through human mental effort,” such that “it would no longer be sound to regard institutional barriers like education as critical in determining how fast industries can transform.” Africans can thus be sent back to villages, or to Europe, while artificial intelligence robots run industries in Africa and innovate asymptotically.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Reg Cæsar
  2. One corner of the reliefs celebrating the victory of Pharaoh Ramesses III over the Sea Peoples shows the latter arriving with oxcarts full of family members, signifying this was less of a fight against military invasion and more of a struggle against unwelcomed immigration. The relief celebrates victory, and the historical texts of the Egyptians suggest the invaders were subjugated and forced to settle in Canaan, but there is increasing evidence that Egypt was indeed inundated by a foreign culture that ultimately helped along with a perpetual war-footing to usher in the economic collapse of the twentieth dynasty.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  3. 7500 years ago, Near Eastern farmers invade the West using agriculture.

    5000 years ago, Yamnaya invade the West using bronze.

    2500 years ago, the Sea Peoples invade the West using iron.

    Hmmm … every 2500 years or so there is an epochal, civilization-changing invasion of the West involving a technical innovation.

    Let’s see 7500 – 5000 – 2500 … so the next one is due … ooooh right about now.

    This very moment, the entire third world invades the West using the internet and aircraft and ships.

    The invasion periods seem to last 500-1000 years and result in the permanent genetic turnover of the invaded area.

    We’re just getting started…

  4. Zimriel says:

    Only some of Yamnaya were Aryan. Aryan implies Indic and Iranian, associated with the Y-chromosome R1a. In Europe (and the Tocharians in Asia), Yamnaya was mostly the related R1b.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Nawyr
  5. Zimriel says:

    Also, the Bronze Age collapse was probably not mediated by the introduction of iron. The Sea Peoples and associated land bandits, like the Kaska up in Anatolia and the Elamites over in future Khuzestan, used bronze too. Iron became a thing a century or two later.

    Robert Drews in 1992 thought that these raiders had brought other technology and tactics (light infantry designed to harry chariots), but it’s 2018 now and I don’t know how well that thesis has held up.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @JimS
    , @EscapeArtist
  6. Numinous says:

    Or it could be internal strife, like the religious wars in Britain (and France and Netherlands and Germany….) that caused people from there to emigrate to the New World in the 17th and 18th centuries. And like what’s happening in Syria right now.

  7. Imagine a graph like this for the whole world in the jet age.

    Is there as much effect on genetic variation, though? People are flying to interesting places and meeting interesting people, but not always to kill them. Those old migrations included a lot of wiping out of competing Y chromosomes, didn’t they?

    Also, Europe is proving, in its ineptitude, that still all it takes for mass migration is a boat on the Mediterranian.

    • Replies: @Anon7
    , @bomag
  8. Full Metal Jacket reference?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  9. theMann says:

    Migrations tend to be tied to severe climate change: drought + cold = move – starve, warm + wet = move – population explosion.. I find the scenario of “they are way richer than we are but we have better weapons” to be highly unlikely. If they are rich it is because they have better weapons, although they could still be overwhelmed by sufficient numbers of desperate, hungry people. A perfect example is the Viking conquests – they weren’t better armed, richer, or better organized than the medieval societies they conquered, just a lot meaner and more desperate.

    Again, ALL of our current migration woes are due to people in the West feeding and giving medical technologies to societies that haven’t earned it, and simply don’t deserve it. The analogy remains exact: feed a stray, multiply the strays. Feed a third world shithole, multiply the shitholes. Three migrations: one from Africa, second from SE Asia, third from Central America. All of which we are bringing on ourselves, because our “charity” is in fact our suicide.

    In any case, I am not going to assume that the present is the future. Mini ice age + soil mineral exhaustion, epic antibiotic fail, massive explosion of tribal animosity (Tutsi vs. Hutu), and my personal favorite, disastrous sperm count fail due to phthalates, could all result in a whacking sudden decrease in populations, even aside from a “stop feeding the third worlders” campaign. Or a meteor strike, nuclear war, something worse than Ebola\plague\Marburg etc, which are already starting to affect Africans in measurable degree. Well, I am veering into disaster porn…..

    In any case, everybody else is assuming these populations will continue like their present. I am assuming that they, one way or another, they extremely will not.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    , @anonymous
  10. What I’ve found interesting about the Bronze Age expansion is the use of bronze for chariot wheel bearings. You can’t make a wheel spin at very high speeds for very long without some kind of sophisticated bearing. The old greased wooden axle riding in the greased hole of a wooden wheel ain’t going to cut it unless you’re traveling at a walking speed. So the whole chariot invasion thing relies on a good bearing which means sophisticated casting and some machining for concentricity and smoothness. In other words, those invading guys were mechanical engineers and decent mechanics. Think about that for a moment. They weren’t just battle axe wielding, farmer’s daughter snagging berserkers.

    My understanding is that they didn’t ride their horses, so the horse as they knew it was a much smaller beast than we are accustomed to imagining today, more of an oversized pony. It doesn’t take as large an animal to pull a lightweight chariot–or a laden wagon–as it does to carry a human and his stuff. On the other hand, a chariot has got to stick to relatively flat land compared to a mounted horse which can traverse the most rugged terrain, so the invaders would have had to confine their activities to relatively flat grassland, which is precisely what we see.

    I’ve said this before and I know that I’ve been here too long if my own words are starting to bore me, but I’ll say it again. A really smart and masterful engineering metals professor (with a Masters in History) told our class that the whole bronze/iron thing is overrated by anthropologists et. al. Work-hardened bronze (pounded on a lot) is very tough stuff, superior in fact to early iron. Early iron was, in general, very brittle because it contained too much carbon due to the way it was smelted. For iron to be Steel, i.e. tough and hard at the same time–and not just brittle cast iron, the carbon-saturated gases (from combustion of charcoal) must be excluded from the molten metal while it is being smelted and this means some kind of vacuum or controlled atmosphere, neither of which were available to primitive smelters. (Read The Arms of Krupp for a fascinating account of how this process was perfected by European–but not till the 19th century!).

    So who knows why iron supplanted superior, longer lasting bronze. I suspect it was due to cheapness, bronze being regarded (justifiably) as the third of the three noble metals (see Plato). Bronze was useful for cauldrons, drinking vessels and the like. Bronze may have been scarcer and as I remember from our having this conversation before on this site, someone (Steve?) pointed out that the rabble infantry could be outfitted with a cheap iron sword and put into the field whereas only the aristocratic warrior class would have had bronze weapons. So the Iron Age was literally, as Plato said, the beginning of the Age of the “common man”, the disposable citizen, with enshrinement of the social values of the democratic state that go along with that.

  11. Anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:

    Yep.

    The internet and smart phones are fuelling the current Merkel Age mass migration Volkwanderung.

  12. Also, Europe is proving, in its ineptitude, that still all it takes for mass migration is a boat on the (Mediterranean).

    Maybe what is amiss is the whole concept of refugees, which apparently arose originally as a political way of disapproving of overseas regimes by accepting high-value immigrants who were persecuted. Galileo would have made a good refugee, or French nobles with English connections at the time of the Reign of Terror.

    People in historic Christendom have always been somewhat sympathetic to refugees, probably due to the influence of the mythical story in the Bible about the Israelites emigrating from Egypt under the leadership of Prince Moses, who claimed to have been found by his mom as an infant abandoned to be eaten by crocodiles in the River Nile.

    Current official United Nations definitions of refugees are something like “who are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence and unable to return there owing to serious and indiscriminate threats to life, physical integrity or freedom resulting from generalized violence or events seriously disturbing public order.”

    Now it has got completely out of hand, and with countries like El Salvador apparently ruled by criminal warlords and the central government unable to enforce laws, then almost anyone can claim refugee status. And these Africans–is anyone going to send them back to some place ruled by Sharia law where the men will be castrated and the women circumcised?

    At least when most of Africa and the Orient was ruled by the European Colonial powers, there was a semblance of a justice system, which may have been unjust, but was hardly ever corrupt.

    An excellent, but overlooked novel is George Orwell’s Burmese Days, which I think is in many ways his best work, and well worth a read.

    https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79b/index.html

    What is needed now is a repudiation of the whole concept of refugee status.

    Otherwise how can the US accept all these poor persecuted people from “indiscriminate threats to life” in lawless El Salvador ( Spanish: The Savior) and not allow Russia to take in Edward Snowden or Julian Assange?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  13. Also, Europe is proving, in its ineptitude, that still all it takes for mass migration is a boat on the (Mediterranean).

    Maybe what is amiss is the whole concept of refugees, which apparently arose originally as a political way of disapproving of overseas regimes by accepting high-value immigrants who were persecuted. Galileo would have made a good refugee, or French nobles with English connections at the time of the Reign of Terror.

    People in historic Christendom have always been somewhat sympathetic to refugees, probably due to the influence of the mythical story in the Bible about the Israelites emigrating from Egypt under the leadership of Prince Moses, who claimed to have been found by his mom as an infant abandoned to be eaten by crocodiles in the River Nile. A cute variation on the Virgin Birth.

    Current official definitions of refugees are something like “who are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence and unable to return there owing to serious and indiscriminate threats to life, physical integrity or freedom resulting from generalized violence or events seriously disturbing public order.”

    Now it has got completely out of hand, and with countries like El Salvador apparently ruled by criminal warlords and the central government unable to enforce laws, then almost anyone can claim refugee status. And these Africans–is anyone going to send them back to some place ruled by Sharia law where the men will be castrated and the women circumcised?

    At least when most of Africa and the Orient was ruled by the European Colonial powers, there was a semblance of a justice system, which may have been unjust, but was hardly ever corrupt.

    An excellent, but overlooked novel is George Orwell’s Burmese Days, which I think is in many ways his best work, and well worth a read.

    https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/o/orwell/george/o79b/index.html

    What is needed now is a repudiation of the whole concept of refugee status.

    How can the US accept all these poor persecuted people from “indiscriminate threats to life” in lawless El Salvador ( Spanish: The Savior) and not allow Russia to take in Edward Snowden or Julian Assange?

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  14. @Almost Missouri

    Your comment wasn’t visible when I posted. Yes, we are in another wave. It’s a good bet natural law will eventually take over and there will be death and change on a scale we are not yet seeing.

    There may not be anything causing the periodicity you identify, but who knows? We are part of a big system that seems to do what it wants to do, in spite of our best efforts.

    Climate change fanatics should be worried about what you are predicting, not the natural temperature cycles that have existed since long before we got here. We should be able to do something about immigration, whereas we may just have to adapt to the weather.

  15. @Jonathan Mason

    Mediterranian

    (Mediterranean)

    One thing is certain: I can’t spell worth shit.

    Agreed, the refugee racket needs to stop, and our idea of what the word means needs to go back to something much more limited. We are a minority and cannot save everybody else from their problems.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  16. Anon7 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Are there sites and columns like Steve’s on their side, in sub-Saharan Africa, in the Middle East, in Asia, that are just like this one, except that they reflect their excitement over the vapid stupidity of Westerners who spend centuries building up their real estate and women and economies, only to abandon it all to hordes of young men armed with nothing more than backpacks and smartphones?

    I think the smartphone belongs on that graph above, just to the right of the iron sword.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational, Autochthon
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  17. @Almost Missouri

    You’re wrong. There is no invasion. There is an invitation. Therein lies the difference. The difference between previous eras is that the invaders had superior technology or similar advantages. Now it is treason from within and an active effort from people who rule these societies to invite outsiders. It could easily be stopped, despite rhetoric claiming otherwise.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  18. Agreed, the refugee racket needs to stop, and our idea of what the word means needs to go back to something much more limited.

    Absolutely, and this is why I think Trump is quite wrong on obsessing about building a wall. Seeking consensus to get changes to the law on how refugee status is defined and how the US foreign policy deals with nations that cannot protect their own citizens seems to me much more important as a long term solution.

    Build a metaphorical wall, if you like, through legislation, but as far as the physical wall goes, perhaps build a better fence in some areas that are liable to incursion, but divert some of the aircraft used to detect speeding motorists to patrol the more desolate areas of the southern border as needed and use technology like Facebook and Whatsapp to detect invaders.

  19. Ibound1 says:

    The Western Roman Empire was invaded by and lost to Germanic tribes – not on the list. The Eastern Roman Empire was invaded by and lost to Arab tribes – not on the list. The Byzantine Empire was invaded by and lost to Turkish tribes, not on the list. The United States 1880-1920 invited a mass migration of Southern, Eastern and Jewish Europeans, not on the list. There are plenty mass migrations not on this list. The Slavs invaded Eastern Europe permanently in late antiquity after the German tribes went west. Not on the list. And the Sea Proples did not invade the West. They invaded the Levant and Egypt (failing in the latter case). They were from the West.

    • Replies: @OP
    , @Jim
  20. @Almost Missouri

    Did the Sea Peoples leave much genetic (or any other) residue behind though?

    They seem to have come and went.

  21. Did the Sea Peoples leave much genetic (or any other) residue behind though? They seem to have come and went.

    Just because they were pirates, it doesn’t mean they were rapists. That would be stereotyping.

    In a similar situation on the North African coast a few thousand years later the warrior Queen of the Sea People said after the horrible death of a local chieftain.

    We came, we saw, he died

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-saw-he-died/

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  22. Ibound1 says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    That comment and cackle of hers were so utterly deranged and sociopathic, it should have disqualified her from public office on the spot.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Dan Hayes
  23. @Buzz Mohawk

    The irony is, we ARE doing something about the weather.  It’s the wrong damn thing (way too much to merely offset the Milankovich-driven cooling trend) but it’s something.

    Our (((elites))) are also doing something about migration.  They’re driving it upward in at least a dozen different ways, from spread of smart phones to the turd world to giving “refugees” generous benefits just for breathing to persecuting medical professionals who call out fraudulent “refugee” claims of e.g. age.

  24. Just because they were pirates, it doesn’t mean they were rapists. That would be stereotyping.

    I should add that my father was born in Port Said, Egypt (in 1925). He may have spent his childhood surrounded by descendants of Copts and Robbers.

    • LOL: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Trevor H.
  25. Lot says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    None at all, it seems they destroyed city after city then either starved or were destroyed by the Egyptians.

  26. The big brain academics and naive journalists think change in society is due to ‘important thinkers’ and ‘cultural movers’. In fact, it’s always due to technology and how that reacts with basic human nature. Now we’re living in the age of the pill and the internet, and people have reacted as expected. All the different ideologies are just shadows on the cave wall, as the world both embraces or reacts against each new technology.

    Take the Technological Determinism Pill.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Abon
    , @Daniel Chieh
  27. On the other hand, I could be wrong about the technology connections to these ages of mass migrations.

    Electronic technology in the form of monetary policy is the reason why this current multi-decade mass immigration invasion phase has taken place without any appreciable pushback from the populace of the invaded nations.

    How so?

    Generations of European Christians have been bought off with massive amounts of private and government debt. This debt has been conjured up out of thin air by the globalized central banks.

    There is a globalizer plot afoot to use monetary policy in combination with mass immigration to destroy and degrade national sovereignty and ethnic integrity in European Christian nations.

    White Americans born before the year 1965 have been bought off by high asset prices to keep their greedy mouths shut about the nation-wrecking mass immigration invasion going on in their nations. Monetary policy has created a series of asset bubbles that satiate the greed of the Mammonite Whites while immigration policy has been used to keep wages low and housing prices high.

    Honest historians will look back on the period before Civil War II and marvel at the White human rats born before 1965 who allowed their civilization to be flooded with non-European foreigners.

    This current asset bubble will pop soon. It might have started to pop 5 minutes ago.

    If the economy is “booming” as the baby boomer mass immigration fanatic, Mike Pence, says, then why not raise the federal funds rate to the normal level of 6 percent?

    Mike “Jennifer Granholm Nose” Pence is an irritating baby boomer bastard who pushes mass legal immigration and amnesty for illegal aliens.

    Mike Pence is typical of the baby boomer slobs who have been bought off by monetary policy to keep their mouths shut about the mass immigration currently destroying European Christian civilization in the United States.

  28. @Buzz Mohawk

    The purpose of the fanaticism is to avoid the issue that requires action.

  29. bomag says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Is there as much effect on genetic variation, though? People are flying to interesting places and meeting interesting people, but not always to kill them. Those old migrations included a lot of wiping out of competing Y chromosomes, didn’t they?

    But if the males in the host country aren’t siring kids while the immigrants do; or natives lose significant access to women because of immigration; it has the same effect as killing.

    There’s also the economic angle. If the immigrants are just glorified domestic animals to be rounded up at election time while the hosts live behind gates and doors with a controlling stake of the important resources kept to them and theirs, its not much of a migration.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  30. Beckow says:
    @Almost Missouri

    …This very moment, the entire third world invades the West using the internet and aircraft and ships

    We have to be careful with these migration analogies. Most historical analogies don’t fit very well, false analogies are one of the most common and lazy errors in thinking (right Mr. Hitler, how did you get to Syria?).

    There is a visible section in the West that actively and enthusiastically promotes this migration wave. They are in charge and dominate all elite groups: culture, academy, media, politics, religion, business. And what technology are these migrants bringing? My best understanding is that the Western elites want then for their sheer numbers or to improve dull cousine. They are not coming with plows, bronze, horses. They even use Western gadgets and planes to do the travel. It doesn’t quite fit.

    And is it really an ‘invasion‘? Were Egyptian pharaohs making declarations about the pleasures of being honoured to welcome the See Peoples? Were mesolithic European women wistfully standing on the banks of Danube waiting to be ravished? This looks more like an invasion of simple field parasites: they see a rich target, they move in to live off it. The puzzling part are the welcomers, but that could just be a late civilisational mental disease.

  31. @Jonathan Mason

    “Current official United Nations definitions of refugees are ….”

    The UN is nothing more than a modern-day Tower of Babel that the gods should smite before it can inflict more harm on the proper order of the universe.

    • Replies: @donut
  32. OT – “In San Francisco, rates rose last year among all black men and women. Rates among black men are almost triple that of white men, and eight times higher for black women compared with white women, according to the city’s new HIV report.”

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/New-HIV-cases-hit-record-low-but-disparities-13248800.php

  33. @Buzz Mohawk

    I’ve often noted how liberals insist that we can control the weather, but somehow we can’t control the borders.

  34. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Why didn’t the French do this to Algerians and Vietnamese? When they opposed French colonialism, force them to undergo ‘therapy’ to welcome and celebrate Diversity by French invasion.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45590963

  35. Karl says:

    10 Jonathan Mason > He may have spent his childhood surrounded by descendants of Copts and Robbers

    the Copts are still there. By the way, they have a seminary in California

    • Replies: @Abon
  36. Abon says:

    Why would Mid East farmers invade Europe? Maybe farming led to a population increase and try needed more land.

  37. @Anatoly Karlin

    The Galatians of the Bible were probably descended from the Sea People.

    • Replies: @patrick
    , @Jim
  38. @Almost Missouri

    2500 years ago, the Sea Peoples invade the West using iron.

    No, it was more like 3200 years ago.

  39. pyrrhus says:
    @Almost Missouri

    But we haven’t gotten to the serious killing yet, as “we” saw when the Aryans invaded India and the Siber people invaded Europe. In which the Early European Farmers were wiped out with few genetic traces remaining, and the men and boys of the early Indian peoples were slaughtered quite completely…

  40. Pericles says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    The big, beautiful wall is intended to keep out illegal aliens. Refugees is another issue. Both need to be addressed.

    (If nothing else, recent decades have been shown that asylum and refugee status are intellectually and morally bankrupt concepts.)

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  41. The end of the Bronze Age didn’t have anything to do with technology. At least, nobody mentions the Sea People’s bringing some new tech with them to destroy the Bronze Age civilizations.

  42. @Buzz Mohawk

    Both astronomic/geological/meteorological and human/cultural long-period and intermediate period cycles are poorly understood. We may be heading into a period of solar activity that will cause another “mini Ice Age”, like that associated with the Maunder Minimum. David Hackett Fischer’s book, “The Great Wave: Price Revolutions and the Rhythm of History”, suggests that there are multi-century cycles in commodity prices that correlate with social stability and unrest. Hackett suggests that we are entering the end phase of the current price cycle, a time of dangerous social instability. My dissertation and early research involved a study of self-re-enforcing demographic cycles in developed countries, with periods about the length of two generations. IIRC, there was a Heinlein short story based on the notion that the superposition of a number of periodic social and other phenomenon was about to lead to the total collapse of society. Heinlein’s 1950s short stories often seem shockingly prescient in their predictions of current social phenomena, albeit grossly underestimating how truly crazy things have gotten, and how quickly they got that way.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Buzz Mohawk
  43. syonredux says:

    Speaking of migrations….

    Acid attackers jailed over ‘shocking’ spree of brutal robberies on Gumtree customers across London

    Three robbers who maimed Gumtree users with acid and alkaline in a spree of attacks across London have been jailed.

    Antoine Mensah, 21, Miracle Osondu, 19, and Mohammed Ali, 17, robbed mini-cab drivers at knifepoint and also targeted sellers and buyers on the classifieds website.

    They carried out 19 robberies in north and east London between April and May.

    One of their victims was left with horrific burns on his face, which left him like a “zombie”.

    He said in a statement: “The initial injuries were that my skin was burnt all over, even in my mouth and on my tongue.

    “Even after I gave them what was in my pockets, they kept pouring acid over me, just because they could.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/acid-attackers-jailed-over-spree-of-brutal-robberies-across-london-a3933366.html

  44. @syonredux

    Glad you included pictures. I could’ve sworn they were Amish.

    How about an eye for an eye?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Brutusale
  45. We can take this into the historical era by adding the age of sail/gunpowder spreading European genes & culture all over the world.

    The last 50 so years of immigration into Europe/North America (which some other guy passed over the above to jump directly to) is different because it’s not so much about conquerors with stronger technology spreading their genes, but other people using those people’s technology to overwhelm them because they’re now too ‘civilized’ to resist.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anon
  46. @Jonathan Mason

    Absolutely, and this is why I think Trump is quite wrong on obsessing about building a wall.

    He’s hardly obsessing about it. It’s a useful rhetorical rallying point but it appears that at present he’s devoting far more attention and energy to changing politics, trade and culture, both within the United States and internationally.

    • Replies: @Anon
  47. @syonredux

    Antoine Mensah, 21, Miracle Osondu, 19, and Mohammed Ali, 17

    If Mensah qualified for Mensa, it would indeed be a Miracle. As for Mohammed Ali, Dick Cavett is still quite active. Perhaps a 90-minute interview is in store.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  48. @Reg Cæsar

    If Mensah qualified for Mensa it would be a miracle

    Unlikely to be able to qualify for the France soccer team in spite of the French first name, as Mensah is a name nearly always associated with Ghana, who have been a thorn in the side of the US World Cup team a number of times.

    Osondu looks like a Nigerian name. Igbo, actually. Miracle looks like a Christian name. Not so common in English, but Milagro is a very common name in the Hispanophone world. (Not to be confused with Miraclegro, which is a brand of potting soil.)

    Ali, of course could be from anywhere in the Islamic world. Probably Louisville, Kentucky. And Mo is the commonest first name in Britain.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C93qwVmBseE

  49. @Almost Missouri

    Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say the current period began when Westerners colonized much of the world during the Age of Sail?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  50. Off-topic, but:

    When did Catholic high schools become “elite”?

    They sure weren’t when I went to one.

    Does anybody claim that Notre Dame in L.A. is in the same league as Harvard-Westlake?

    I think Georgetown Prep has morphed into an “elite” school because the Narrative demands it.

  51. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    O/T

    Privatize profits, socialize costs

    Thanks in part to this momentous change, the recycling rate for cardboard has dropped to 88.8 percent last year from 92.9 percent in 1999, according to the American Forestry and Packaging Association. No such statistics are available in Germany, but just by watching the containers in my yard, I can see what’s going on: When the blue one is full, some of my neighbors will stuff their Amazon boxes into the black bins whose contents go to the landfill or the burning plant.
    It’s inevitable that the online trade’s decentralization pushes more packaging out to consumers. That doesn’t mean, however, that we should get as much of it as we do.
    According to Fisher, Amazon is the standard setter in packaging for online retail, largely because of its size. But it’s notorious for putting small items in large boxes; in many cases, common sense would dictate that a packaging worker pick a smaller one, but it doesn’t happen. There are even urban legends attempting to explain the phenomenon; a particularly widespread one says Amazon tries to optimize the box sizes to fill company trucks so they carry as little air as possible.

    http://www.brainerddispatch.com/business/retail/4501082-commentary-why-were-choking-amazon-cardboard

  52. @Justice Duvall

    Georgetown Prep’s tuition is Day Student Tuition: $37,215 (US)

    And it takes boarding students too: $60k.

    My old school, Notre Dame Sherman Oaks, is $16,000, while Harvard-Westlake is $38,400. So, going by tuition, Georgetown Prep is elite while NDHS is regular upper middle class.

    The Jesuit HS in LA, Loyola of Los Angeles, is $21,000, so it’s inbetween NDHS and Georgetown Prep.

    • Replies: @Abon
  53. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Heinlein’s “Year of the Jackpot.”

  54. Whiskey says: • Website

    The acid attacks by Blacks on Whites in the UK is a blaring red siren. The victims had given up, and the point of the attack was not to get stuff and money, but to physically dominate and mutilate White victims. Particularly White men.

    The right side of the Internet needs to create more “hate thoughts” by getting these out there. Men tend to be different than women in assessing threats. Men know that mostly, the female strategy of “don’t kill me have sex with me” is out for them. The more White men realize this is the upside, at best. And at worst its the Knoxville atrocity or the rape-torture-murder of House of Freaks Guitarist Bryan Harvey and his whole family, the more chance at survival.

    Obviously, there will be no mass deportations much less any limits to mass third world immigration. Trump is lucky to eke out each week before Rosenstein and some of his cabinet members (who owe Trump nothing and the deep state/Republicucks everything) remove him. Even if there were mass deportations of illegal aliens the kids who are US citizens born here but non-White and White hating are a majority of people under 18. Meaning what is in the UK is coming for us.

    This is where Steve is just flat out plain wrong — the whole point of the elites in gun control is disarming us so we are easy and frequent victims of the Vibrant Aspiring Rappers in the UK Acid Attacks. That is the point. Its what they want. There is no appetite, none whatsoever, for EVER reining in the violent attacks on Whites by non-Whites. And a great deal of this has to do with the frequent iSteve theme: real estate and anarcho-tyranny.

    You would think Paris and London would be immune from the desire to import half the Third World to get the Third World violence. But that is wrong. When the supply of “safe” areas immune to Third World violence through various means is tiny, that means the price of the real estate goes up. Imagine what would happen to the London Real Estate market even with supervillian Russian and Chinese money flooding in, if East London were safe and White instead of violent and Third World?

    We’ve seen this before: Anarcho-Tyranny in Bacon’s Rebellion when Governor Berkeley and his cronies bought up most of Tideland Virginia and planned to enserf all the free men in the colony. That’s why they armed the Indians, forbid the settlers from owning weapons or fighting back, so they could force their labor in semi-serfdom in exchange for security from Indian Attack. This is why the 2nd Amendment is the SECOND ONE.

    Its why downloadable plans for 3d printed Guns are vital. The “Liberator” is based on the simple .45 ACP original WWII version, made of cheap zinc made to be fired once then discarded for the dead enemy’s weapon. There are other versions as well.

    Bottom line owning and carrying a firearm means that Vibrant Aspiring Rappers cannot pour acid all over you, your life will be over anyway so why not fight back even though the authorities will convict you of racist hate existing and self-defense? It is far, far better to live like a Robert E Howard character when it comes right down to acid on your face and head than being a compliant soy-boy.

  55. @Almost Missouri

    This very moment, the entire third world invades the West using the internet and aircraft and ships.

    No, that’s not the technology.

    The critical technology is the mind-virus of “minoritarianism” that was successfuly injected into Western man–and particularly Western woman.

    What’s going on is a disease/collapse, rather than a superior technology driven conquest.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  56. Tim says:
    @Justice Duvall

    Georgetown Prep IS in fact elite. It’s expensive, not as merit based as Gonzaga, sits in Bethesda, and has a 36 hole golf course. When my dad was at Gonzaga, they used to call Prep boys, rich sissies.

    Habing said that, my girlfroend TOTALLY wants to join their pool and ravhet club. . . So do i.

  57. Amy Chua’s latest Atlantic article about the consequences of unrestricted mass immigration:

    The Threat of Tribalism

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/the-threat-of-tribalism/568342/

  58. @Justice Duvall

    In the 70s – 80s when “good” public schools were shifting to modern educational styles, and only public schools in “bad” neighborhoods could afford to stay open, it was a “sweet spot” where Catholic schools retained the substance, content, or both, of the classical educational model, and so people with money, and a choice, started sending their kids to Catholic schools.
    A significant and likely overlooked factor is that generations earlier, WASPs had stopped reproducing in sufficient quantity to people their own private schools so they started steering their kids to Catholic HSs.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Abon
  59. @Abon

    The word “invade” is being tossed around too loosely.

    Agriculture was developed in early Neolithic times from about 10800 YBP to 6000 YBP in a region spreading from roughly central Anatolia (Turkey) to the Tigris-Euphrates (i.e.: inclusive of the Levant and Jericho).

    We have some data that tells us that early farmers weren’t as tough as hunter-gatherers, but one guesses that after a few thousand years, plus the organization that comes with centralized communities, any burly bonus hunter/gatherers had was strategically overcome.

    The picture one gets is that the farmers more or less migrated by coast east-to-west, and migrated up the Danube, east-to-west. The evidence in this era looks more like what anthropologists call “diffusion”, there’s little evidence of a widespread “invasion”. Trading was almost surely common place and people were moving and they found locales and took skills with them.

    The earliest and most dramatic “invasion” scenario, excluding Cromagnon coming into contact with Neanderthals, appears to have been the Celtic migrations. The Celts leave huge genetic footprints all over Europe, but the footprint they left on the British Isles – where – there being an island there was no escape – is pretty devastating.

    But that was no “diffusion of agriculture”, that was a bonafide mass migration.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Abon
  60. @AnotherDad

    It is a conquest, of one part of the West by another, although the conquerors consider themselves post-West.

  61. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    The concept of the public school is a WASP creation.

    We have fewer Protestant private schools for the same reason we have fewer Jewish private schools, ancestral generations didn’t see a need for them.

    A significant change also occured due to the fall-off in vocations, that was the cheap labor that kept Catholic schools affordable in a time before “vouchers”. My HS had one one brother that wasn’t in his 60s.

  62. @Tim

    Habing said that, my girlfroend TOTALLY wants to join their pool and ravhet club. . . So do i.

    “ravhet club”?

    Is that what the BPD shrink thinks Kavanaugh was trying to use on her?

  63. @ThreeCranes

    So is the difference that once humans figured out how to make bronze, they made pretty good bronze, but figuring out how to smelt iron didn’t mean they were anywhere close to cheap, high quality steel?

    Yes, it seems like it took forever to figure out how to go from iron to cheap high quality steel (1850s?). There was always a little high quality steel available, but not much.

    On the other hand, bronze production seems to have been easier to monopolize by a small number of big palace civilizations, while iron was more broadly available.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @ThreeCranes
  64. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @inselaffen

    We’re coming to the end of “the Great Divergence” where H. Sapiens Europa was economically dominant. In material terms, each Westerner consumes far in excess of what a Third Worlder does. Those with Third World living standards are rather resistant to consumerism, and have higher fertility rates both in their homelands and when moving to the West. In terms of a “ecological niche”, the invader fills it more efficiently than the native who demands things like labor laws, living wages, gender equality, home ownership and low levels of public corruption.

    Is some of it parasitism, sure. But one shouldn’t be surprised that those with multi-generational households, lower rates of drug usage, patriarchial religions, and austere living standards are outcompeting us. We are living in an environment where our special strength of state-organized violence is unable to be used.

    Convergence Theory was supposed to herald ex-colonial states rising to First World GDP levels with the diffusion of technology. Instead it saw the ex-colonial populations converging on the West.

  65. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Steel requires large scale coal mining, which wasn’t viable until a method was invented to pump water out of mine shafts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcomen_atmospheric_engine

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  66. Anonymous[237] • Disclaimer says:
    @Slobbyfeet

    Full Metal Jacket reference?

    It was a very common line in the USMC in the 1970s, so it wouldn’t be surprising if it were in that movie.

  67. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buster Keaton's Stunt Double

    What would be more relevant than a wall is changing public attitudes towards immigration, which have gone strikingly positive as the public sees Trump as a bully picking on hapless victim immigrants. The wall should never be discussed in the same sentence without the word “Israel”.

    ICE is best utilized going after wealthy business owners and sex trafficking gangs.

    It was a major failure to invest political capital into the haphazard travel ban, rather than just putting an administrative moratorium on refugee resettlement. Savings from resettlement could have been used to pay for refugee camps in Jordan/Turkey.

    Trump also should have used the leverage of the tax cuts/budget to whittle away at programs like the visa lottery, even if the redirected 50K visas became more H-1Bs. Such would delegitimize the idea that one has a “right to immigrate” to the “nation of immigrants”.

    Using bureaucratic harassment of H-1B visa employers is brilliant, one of the best things the administration has done. Hard to say if it will generate political gains, wages are “sticky” in economist terms, and aren’t rising fast enough that the GOP will get the credit for.

    At a non-governmental level, the out-of-touch nature of Trump’s three oldest children has been a major problem. They do not appear concerned at all with the hypocrisy of employing H-2B visa workers, or selling Trump branded products that are made in China.

    • Replies: @Abon
  68. @The Alarmist

    Well, it’s a damned good thing that can’t happen here!

  69. @theMann

    Interesting comment. Please elaborate on phthalates.

  70. @Anon

    Having missed the “first two waves of economic transformation, almost completely,” namely the agricultural revolution and the industrial revolution, Africa may be missing the next big revolution of civilization, the “asymptotic innovation wave,” which somehow involves the “digitalization of all industries,” which, remember, Africa doesn’t have anyway because it missed the last revolution.

    I could say the same thing about my dog.

    And that says a lot about Africa.

    • LOL: BB753
  71. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Agreed on the mini Ice Age and other possible cycles and causes of changes in the system(s) we inhabit and are part of. Your dissertation sounds interesting.

  72. @Anon

    The concept of the public school is a WASP creation.

    I guess I’m assuming too much.
    There’s WASP – as in generally everyone Anglo.

    And then there’s WASP, as in every third house along a particular road in my hometown, and all the churches up a particular street.

    I was referring to the latter when I made my comment.

    The latter name their daughters names like Barrett, Clark and Reagan, and their children are found in abundance in elite Catholic HS to this day.

  73. @Steve Sailer

    “So is the difference that once humans figured out how to make bronze, they made pretty good bronze, but figuring out how to smelt iron didn’t mean they were anywhere close to cheap, high quality steel?”

    Yes, that’s it exactly. When William Manchester began research on the Krupp family I would guess that he didn’t have a clue as to what he was getting himself into. I believe he did a very credible job of getting across the difficulties involved in making real steel which is why I recommend the book (which is also worth reading for the info on the Krupps and German armament). Although the British had learned to make steel in Sheffield in the 1700′s, they wouldn’t share the secret with the world, so the Germans had to figure the process out for themselves. What follows is a brief history of that.

    To melt iron ore requires heat (of course) and the only thing available to our forebears was wood and later coal. (Wood itself burns dirty so it is converted into charcoal by making a big mound of stacked sawn firewood, covering it with dirt and burning it without the presence of oxygen for days until what you have is charcoal).

    One way or another a fire is made with wood, charcoal, coal or whatever and the ore melted either in some kind of furnace or in a crucible. The combustion of any of these produces a gas which is loaded with carbon molecules. The gas mixes with the molten ore. When the ore is fully liquified it is poured off into molds. When it cools chunks of this stuff are used by blacksmiths to forge plowshares and swords.

    Carbon atoms mix well with iron atoms. Iron forms a crystalline structure when it cools. The carbon fits perfectly into interstitial spaces between iron atoms. Doing so, it increases the rigidity of the structure. In a free atmospheric gas melting scenario, the carbon will make up about 3 to 5 % of the final alloy. This is cast iron. It is hard but brittle. It lacks flexibility. Bend it, drop your cast iron pan on the floor and it will crack.

    Steel, on the other hand, is–paradoxically–iron with a lower carbon content than cast iron. The problem is how to accomplish this. But the problem early iron smelters faced was one of understanding. They didn’t know what made steel vs. cast iron. It wasn’t till one of the Krupps figured out through long experimentation that the solution was excluding the exhaust gases from contact with the molten iron ore that the solution to the riddle was finally achieved. I believe (I read this book in the early 1970′s so I’m a little rusty) that they used a sealed crucible to do this.

    Anyway, steel in its most useful for is what we today call “high carbon” steel. Like the wooden handled “Old Hickory” knife you have in your cutlery drawer or the frame of the Peugeot UO8 or Raleigh Grand Prix or Fuji S10 that may have been your first ten speed bicycle. The carbon content is around 1 to 2 %. It acts like a spring. Move it and it springs back with a “twang” when you release it. Low carbon steel bends like an old fashioned steel coat hanger. So it’s like Goldilocks porridge. Not too much and not too little carbon yields the right properties.

    Now this is the important part. The working properties of high carbon steel can be altered by heating and cooling. This is what makes steel the workhorse of industry, the backbone of every modern economy. It can be hardened by heating followed by a rapid quenching. It can be softened by heating and a long slow cooling. The surface can be hardened by carburizing, the shackle of your Master padlock is “case hardened” by heating the finished shaped piece of steel and exposing it to carbon. This reacts with and hardens only the outermost layers of molecules. For the crankshaft of your auto engine you want a very tough core to withstand the pounding but it must be surface hardened where it rides in the journal bearings. Your car springs must be treated to a certain regimen of heating and cooling to act like springs.

    So, how did (and do today) early metal workers shape steel? How would they cut it? The answer is that they softened it by annealing it (slow cooling) and after cutting it to the shape they wanted, hardened it. Amazing. It’s this property that makes steel so amenable to manipulation and therefore useful.

    Modern high performance steels are alloyed with chrome, molybdenum, manganese, vanadium etc which impart great strength etc. but the base, the starting point is still high carbon steel.

    Anyway, Napolean’s army at Waterloo was equipped with bronze cannons (smoothbore not rifled) which could only handle so many firings before the bore became worn and accuracy fell off. Wellington had steel cannons which (if I remember correctly) could withstand more firings before accuracy fell off and which could tolerate higher breech pressure allowing greater range.

    The Bismarck was plated with Krupp steel. Etc. So, lots of interesting stuff in the book (even how the process was discovered by which your Sterling Silver eating utensils are roller forged).

  74. @Song For the Deaf

    I think it may have inversely had to do with technology in that: there was a maximum capacity of educational and vocational transmission in the father-to-son model. The educational model was a constraint (as in “Theory of Constraints”) on transmission of knowledge necessary to sustain a complex society, to the following generation.

    There were many societies that were complex (Egyptian, Hittite, Mycenaean), and interdependent. The combined shock of a string of natural disasters (earthquakes and volcanic eruptions) that literally destroyed whole communities – whole links in the chain of interdependency – took out more than the father-to-son model could bear. Within probably just two generations things just weren’t working and local abilities optimized for interdependence were not able to cope with independence. The Sea Peoples were probably like the American entry into WWI – it basically served to deliver the final blow to an already tottering edifice.

    But to your point – it wasn’t that the Sea Peoples came with iron to face people armed with bronze, but it was that, in so many words, by the time the Sea Peoples came, no one really knew how to keep the trains running – or the camel caravans or cross-oceanic bills-of-lading.

    That cycle was probably a repeat of an earlier cycle and its happened since – but these cycles aren’t foregone conclusions, or, we could say: another “dark” age isn’t a foregone conclusion. The question is if our educational systems are inadequate to face the challenge, and/or if the pipelines of education-and-experience, to executive leadership, are so clogged that it doesn’t matter. Many times we come close and then turn things around.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  75. I posted too soon.

    Anyway, primitive cast iron is too brittle to do what a sword needs to do. Only steel has the right combination of toughness and harden-ability to be both strong enough to handle the impact and hard enough to take a really durable edge.

    I’ve handled some bronze, cut threads on the silicon bronze bar stock that hold the keel on my boat and it is tough stuff. Early bronze wasn’t alloyed with silicon, it was just tin and copper. It is nowhere near as strong as modern alloys but still, all in all, makes a good axe (the Danish museum is loaded with bronze axeheads that date back 3500 ago, 1500 before today’s era (whatever).

    To be honest, I have no idea whether bronze would hold a good cutting edge for very long. It certainly has the requisite strength to do the job but strength is not the same as harden-ability. Here’s a link to a webpage that discusses it in the context of ancient Bronze Age cultures. Apparently, adding antimony enables bronze to hold an edge.

    http://pages.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/arch/metallurgy.html

    And in answer to your question Steve; yes, apparently it is relatively easy to determine and alter the tin/copper ratio so as to arrive at the optimum strength of the resulting bronze alloy and the ancients succeeded in doing just that.

  76. patrick says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Not quite. The Galatians were descended from a later migration of Celts who moved from Central Europe to Anatolia via the Balkans. This happened after Alexander the Great had wiped out the Persian Empire; the Celts established themselves in a region of Central Anatolia that was not controlled by any of the successor kingdoms.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  77. @Anon

    Those with Third World living standards are rather resistant to consumerism

    Wrong.

    The only reason Third Worlders appear, “resistant to consumerism,” is a lack of disposable income.

    There is nothing inherent in their nature that suggests otherwise.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anon
  78. @Jim Don Bob

    How about an eye for an eye?

    Malice was involved.  Treble damages are in order.

    • Replies: @Abon
  79. @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    We have some data that tells us that early farmers weren’t as tough as hunter-gatherers

    When you can have so many more farmers per square mile, toughness-per-capita doesn’t matter quite as much as total toughness.

  80. @Thulean Friend

    I agree, in a sense. On the other hand, invasion/invitation; tomayto/tomahto.

    Do we really know that prior eras did not have “treason from within and an active effort from people who rule these societies to invite outsiders”? Since most of it is beyond written history, we can only speculate. But consider a large invasion within recent written history: the Americas. Contrary to modern PC fake history, the European colonists and even conquistadores were welcomed by some of the people in the Americas as potential allies against their longtime local enemies. Is that so different from traitorous leftists importing mass and muscle to do down their hated Deplorables?

    As for the invaders having “had superior technology or similar advantages”, did the Yamnaya invent bronze? Did the Sea People invent iron? I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think so. What they did invent was a way to use the new invention to make vast conquests for themselves. With the modern transport, comms and armaments that we invented, we Westerners could easily colonize the rest of the world in a walkover, but we don’t bother. Why not? I dunno, but I guess we’re pretty fat and happy where we are so why go through all that extra trouble for crappy lands full of chaotic people? The invaders of the West, on the other hand, have grasped our technology and realized they can use it to conquer bountiful lands full of obedient and productive but weak and blinkered people.

    Thus does the cycle of history repeat itself.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  81. @Anatoly Karlin

    I wondered that too, but since we don’t know for sure who the Sea People were, we can’t say for sure how many of their descendants are still around, since we don’t know for sure what we are looking for. What we can say is that the populations of the Eastern Mediterranean basin where the Sea Peoples overran it, today show very multilayered DNA patterns. Very likely one of those layers is the Sea People. We just don’t know which one.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Jim
  82. Twinkie says:
    @Zimriel

    Only some of Yamnaya were Aryan. Aryan implies Indic and Iranian, associated with the Y-chromosome R1a. In Europe (and the Tocharians in Asia), Yamnaya was mostly the related R1b.

    Don’t try to confuse people here with science and facts – Mr. Sailer is determined to make Conan the Barbarian a historical tale, in which the Yamnaya are blond Nordics conquering swarthy Anatolian farmers.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  83. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    A first generation Third World resident in a First World country does tend to display thrift out of a selection bias, and for sending remittances back to their relatives.

    I’ll agree with you that there probably isn’t anything inherent about “resistance to consumerism” in the Third World, but r/K might be of influence.

  84. Twinkie says:
    @Zimriel

    The Sea Peoples and associated land bandits, like the Kaska up in Anatolia and the Elamites over in future Khuzestan, used bronze too. Iron became a thing a century or two later.

    You don’t expect 99% of people here to have read Cline, do you?

    • Replies: @JMcG
  85. @Beckow

    Yes, I agree, but see my reply to Thulean Friend. Short version: opportunistically exploiting technology they didn’t invent to conquer lands at the invitation of conniving or foolish natives is nothing new.

    “Were Egyptian pharaohs making declarations about the pleasures of being honoured to welcome the See Peoples? Were mesolithic European women wistfully standing on the banks of Danube waiting to be ravished?”

    https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/51294/waiting-for-the-barbarians

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justa_Grata_Honoria

    Quite possibly.

  86. Twinkie says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Anyway, steel in its most useful for is what we today call “high carbon” steel.

    One major problem with high carbon is rusting (bronze tarnishes, but does not rust, of course).

    Modern high performance steels are alloyed with chrome, molybdenum, manganese, vanadium etc which impart great strength etc. but the base, the starting point is still high carbon steel.

    Don’t forget cobalt (as in VG10). Adding enough chromium (12+%) makes steel “stainless” or, more accuarately, rust resistant, but of course the downside is the loss of hardness.

    Of course, modern powder metallurgy can achieve some semblance of the best of both worlds, striking a sweet spot of good corrosion resistance, high hardness/wear resistance, and toughness. Science!

  87. @Anatoly Karlin

    Just like Africans bedding stupid white women….

  88. @a boy and his dog

    Perhaps, but I think whether or not Westerners had bothered with “colonization” (which was usually just temporary administration of foreign littoral areas) in the age of sail is largely irrelevant to whether the West would be suffering full scale foreign invasion and settlement now.

    The current invasion is just as advanced in countries with little or no colonial history (Sweden) as in countries with large colonial empires (England).

    And conversely, countries that were not colonized in the age of sail (Thailand, Ethiopia) are just as happy to send emigrants to the West as countries with more colonial history (Vietnam, Ghana).

    I hate to say it, but the real mistake seems to have been in the post-colonial era: scattering transport and communication technology hither and yon in a way that was only marginally useful to the West (we can talk with or visit sh*thole countries to no great advantage to ourselves, if the urge should perversely strike us) but were massively advantageous elsewhere though only at our expense (they can move their entire extended clans to our countries to live at our expense).

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  89. Twinkie says:
    @patrick

    This happened after Alexander the Great had wiped out the Persian Empire; the Celts established themselves in a region of Central Anatolia that was not controlled by any of the successor kingdoms.

    Not quite. They raise some of the the successor states (the Diadochi) and wreaked havoc. They were then enlisted by Nicomedes of Bithynia to help him win a succession dispute (and crossed into Anatolia from the Balkans), but this turned out to be huge mistake as they became the terror of the region.

    They were defeated and subjugated by Antiochus of the Seleucids. He had been away in the East suppressing a revolt and only returned a couple of years later with light troops and a few Indian elephants. Initially the battle was nearly lost as the Seleucids were overwhelmed by Celtic cavalry and infantry, but then the elephants sent the latter into utter panic and Antiochus carried the day. That earned him the title Soter, meaning savior. He was apparently quite sober about the victory though – after the battle he is recorded to have said something to the effect of “Shame, shame, my men. But for these sixteen beasts, where would we be today?”

    After their defeat the Celts were settled in what became Galatia, and the Galatians were extensively utilized as mercenary troops throughout the region and beyond.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  90. @AnotherDad

    I more or less agree, but as I said elsewhere, the Yamnaya and Sea People were not necessarily innately technologically superior, any more than the Mexican or Congolese invaders today are technologically superior. They just grasped that with the new metallurgy they could become the conquerors of valuable territories, just as the invaders today grasp that with the new smart phones and ethnomasochist contralogic they too can become conquerors of valuable territories.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  91. Twinkie says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The most likely origin according to the latest research is somewhere along the Aegean/western Black Sea basin, but likely intermixed with other groups along the way, though some scholarly support still remains for Sicily-Sardinia.

  92. Twinkie says:
    @Twinkie

    Raided, not raise. Darn auto-correct.

  93. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon

    The Yamnaya were not “totes white.” They were likely PROTO-Indo-European and had mixed ancestry: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture

    According to Jones et al. (2015) and Haak et al. (2015), autosomic tests indicate that the Yamnaya people were the result of admixture between two different hunter-gatherer populations: distinctive “Eastern European hunter-gatherers” with high affinity to the Mal’ta–Buret’ culture or other, closely related people from Siberia[3] and a population of “Caucasus hunter-gatherers” who probably arrived from somewhere in the Near East, probably the Caucasus.[4][web 1] Each of those two populations contributed about half the Yamnaya DNA.[6][web 1]

    And

    According to Haak et al. (2015), “Eastern European hunter-gatherers” who inhabited today’s Russia were a distinctive population of hunter-gatherers with high affinity to a ~24,000-year-old Siberian from Mal’ta–Buret’ culture,which physiologically resembles East Asia[20] and other, closely related people from Siberia.[3][web 1] Remains of the “Eastern European hunter-gatherers” have been found in Mesolithic or early Neolithic sites in Karelia and Samara Oblast, Russia, and put under analysis. Three such hunter-gathering individuals of the male sex have had their DNA results published. Each was found to belong to a different Y-DNA haplogroup: R1a, R1b, and J.[6] R1b is also the most common Y-DNA haplogroup found among both the Yamnaya and modern-day Western Europeans.[3][7]

    And they mostly did not look like Arnold or Nordicist fantasies, except perhaps in height:

    The genetic basis of a number of physical features of the Yamnaya people were ascertained by the ancient DNA study conducted by Haak et al. (2015), Wilde et al. (2014), Mathieson et al. (2015): they were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European.[26][6] Despite their pastoral lifestyle, there was little evidence of lactase persistence.[27]

    • Replies: @Nawyr
  94. anon[275] • Disclaimer says:

    Bronze, despite being ~88% copper, is harder and more durable than you might think, and makes very functional knives and swords (though, of course, not as good as tempered steel with just the right amount of carbon). Given the raw materials, copper and tin, it is easy to make something out of bronze.

    A big disadvantage of bronze, however, is that the raw materials are much rarer than iron ore. My guess is that, with the collapse of trade during the bronze age collapse, it became harder to obtain copper and tin, and created an incentive to develop techniques for smelting iron. And, for the lucky and special few that stumbled on the right techniques for making iron into good steel weapons, a good living.

    For general interest, here is a guy comparing bronze vs steel for swords:

    With minimal investment in tools and materials, you can even make a cool bronze knife right in your own backyard!

  95. @Jonathan Mason

    While your critique of the legalisms of “refugee” status is technically correct, I think you overestimate how much these technicalities matter to our Leftist establishment. So long as the object of white destruction is being accomplished, the policy will proceed. It doesn’t and won’t matter what the law books say.

    It is really no more complicated than that.

    • Agree: Autochthon, Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anon
  96. anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @theMann

    Three migrations: one from Africa, second from SE Asia, third from Central America. All of which we are bringing on ourselves, because our “charity” is in fact our suicide.

    Corrections: Africa, Asia, and Latin America & the Caribbean. Your formulation leaves much out, especially China and Mexico. We are being swamped by refuse from all of these third-world hellholes.

  97. @Anon7

    Yes, every time the immigrant third worlder tweets/texts/IMs/emails back home to show off his material/sexual success in the first world, that is the micro-site reflecting “their excitement over the vapid stupidity of Westerners who spend centuries building up their real estate and women and economies, only to abandon it all to hordes of young men armed with nothing more than backpacks and smartphones.”

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  98. @Jonathan Mason

    No reason we can’t have both a physical and metaphorical wall. Unlike the the physical wall, the metaphorical wall can be shut off the moment President Malia A. Obama is sworn in.

    • Replies: @Abon
  99. @International Jew

    Hey, don’t confuse me with the facts.

  100. @ThreeCranes

    Yes, wheel bearings, the magic ingredient that connects the static freight platform to the dynamic terrain traverser! All this nattering about who invented the wheel, but the wheel is useless without a good bearing, as the wheel-having-but-bearing-less Aztecs found out.

    Every time I see an old museum exhibit about wheeled transport I look for the explanation of ancient bearings. But always it is absent. It seems even today we don’t really know how the ancients did it.

    Re bronze vs. iron. Yes, I think you are right that iron was an economic advantage rather than a technical advantage. Bronze required relatively scarce tin + copper. Iron required only relatively common iron ore.

  101. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The Right has staked a lot of its rhetorical power against “illegal” immigration, rather than on the principle of cultural self-determination. Leftist academics can accuse us of being “essentialists” or defending “social constructs”, but the average person cares little for those floating castles.

    The problem is that “seeking asylum is not illegal”, which in addition to being convenient for the left, is true on paper. There are no criminal sanctions if your asylum claim is denied. The courts have been the left’s best friend on the migrant issue, regularly engaging in stalling (which makes the elected politicians look weak).

    Recent moves by Islamists (DENK) in the Netherlands to set up their own party independent of the left might clue some of them in. They’ve been counting on them to be loyal dupes. The optics of left-secularist parties in government depending on an Islamist party is untenable.

  102. Nawyr says:
    @Zimriel

    And Yamnaya were a completely different clade of R1b than Tocharians and modern western Europeans. The Yamnaya men did not contribute paternal DNA to Western Europeans. That was Samara and Corded Ware, Aryans are descendants of them through Andronovo-Sintashta.

    “Aryan” and Tocharian came way after Yamnaya. Indo Europeans spread further east than west, all the way to eastern Mongolia. It was really more of a west to east migration.

  103. Nawyr says:
    @Twinkie

    >And they mostly did not look like Arnold or Nordicist fantasies, except perhaps in height:

    Their original unmixed ancestors largely did, and the Samara/Corded Ware/Andronovo descendants did as well.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  104. @ThreeCranes

    Fascinating stuff all around: many thanks!

  105. Abon says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    You’re right. I wish there were more books on the history of technology trade business and manufacture of useful things

  106. Abon says:
    @Almost Missouri

    I dunno she appears to have snagged a long term English boyfriend from some European billionaire family. If they have a child it will be what 5/8 White.

  107. Twinkie says:
    @Nawyr

    Their original unmixed ancestors largely did

    Which ones, the EEHGs or CHGs?

    You might want to read this:

    In terms of phenotypes, Wilde et al. (2014) and Haak et al. (2015) found that the intrusive Yamna population, generally inferred to be the first speakers of an Indo-European language in the Corded Ware culture zone, were overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European.[3] These studies also showed that light pigmentation traits had already existed in pre-Indo-European Neolithic Europeans (in both farmers and hunter-gatherers), so long-standing philological attempts to correlate them with the arrival of Indo-Europeans from the steppes were misguided.[17]

    Autosomal DNA tests also indicate that the Yamna migration from the steppes introduced a component of ancestry referred to as “Ancient North Eurasian” admixture into Europe.[3] “Ancient North Eurasian” is the name given in genetic literature to a component that represents descent from the people of the Mal’ta-Buret’ culture[3] or a population closely related to them.[3] The “Ancient North Eurasian” genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people[3] as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Western or Central Europeans predating the Corded Ware culture.[18]

    ANEs likely had a somewhat Mongoloid-looking faces and were darker than Western Eurasian farmers, from whom modern Europeans likely inherited the light skin. Though today’s ultra light skin might also be a result of a sweep in the more recent time frame (-5000 years).

    Maybe Conan reboot with that guy who played Khal Drogo got the science better than Arnold did.

    • Replies: @Nawyr
    , @OP
  108. Abon says:
    @Karl

    And a church in Santa Monica.

  109. Abon says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Dianne Feinstein’s high school Sacred Heart Convent tuition is $43,975 this year.

    Sacred Heart has always been elite. It’s international lots of royalties like the Empress of Japan Henry Ford 2’s daughters others.

    Thank God for Microsoft stock.

  110. Abon says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    There are plenty of Protestant private schools. The ultra religious ones that call themselves Christian are starting up everywhere

    The numerous St Paul’s are usually boys or once boys now coed Protestant schools

  111. Abon says:
    @Anon

    The invaders households are a lot more than multigenerational. They have a lot of non related boarders plus arrangements like 8 single men in a studio and 25 people related or not in a small 3 bedroom house and garage.

  112. Abon says:
    @Anon

    If there were a real crackdown on the Chinese brothels with massive publicity the whole model minority thing would be destroyed

    Then the israeli pimps and brothels.

  113. Abon says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Never happen in England. They’re amazingly lenient on non native British criminals.

  114. @syonredux

    Obviously, they’re the descendants of Roman legionairies.

  115. Michael Mann The Sources of Social Power was supposed to run 3 volumes starting from the rise of Assyrian empires c. 4500 BC till yesterday. Migration is simplistic. The scholars speak of marcher lords vs centralized tyrants with organized soldiery on foot. Wheat from a single harvest is easier to steal (requisition) than beans or whatever grows all year around. Mann didn’t make it to vol. 3. His vol. 1, from the beginnings of organized theft in ancient Assyria goes up to just before the Roman empire. I can’t recommend a book more highly than Mann’s.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @APilgrim
  116. JMcG says:
    @Twinkie

    Cline’s book seems an overextended SWAG to me. Interesting though.

  117. Trevor H. says:
    @syonredux

    “Even after I gave them what was in my pockets, they kept pouring acid over me, just because they could.”

    Why exactly did you have to include mug shots?

    The New York Times managed to cover the same story much more responsibly. No mug shots or references to ethnicity or immigration status. That’s how we do things nowadays thank you very much.

    In fact, from what I could ascertain from the Times story, it was poor immigrants who were the victims, and the perpetrators were lower class native born white men, who likely voted for Brexit.

  118. Nawyr says:
    @Twinkie

    ANEs likely had a somewhat Mongoloid-looking faces and were darker than Western Eurasian farmers, from whom modern Europeans likely inherited the light skin. Though today’s ultra light skin might also be a result of a sweep in the more recent time frame (-5000 years).

    Yet again you have managed to not only reiterate a falsehood, but to add on to it another falsehood.

    The ANE were not only not dark and not Mongoloid, they were blond 14,000 years ago, and European blond hair came from them:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afontova_Gora

    Phenotypic analysis shows that Afontova Gora 3 carries the derived rs12821256 allele associated with blond hair color in Europeans, making Afontova Gora 3 the earliest individual known to carry this derived allele.[15]

    The mandibles of Afontova Gora were also described as gracile and lacked Mongoloid dental morphology.

    This is why Native Americans with their high level of ANE admixture often have Caucasoid features, especially in the nose and middle-facial skeleton, and limbs. ANE were fully Caucasoid. The Afontova Gora and Mal’ta DNA profiles are closer to West Eurasians than East Eurasians, genetically, and closest to iron age Scythians.

    As for the Indo-Europeans , they were of course fully Caucasoid and of Nordic pigmentation, as the DNA and actual physical samples of blond hair from the Samara culture demonstrate. Yamna were mixed.

    That Wikipedia article you ripped that quote from is written by biased authors who are attempting to conceal the truth about the racial origins of Indo Europeans.

    • Replies: @Nawyr
    , @Twinkie
  119. APilgrim says:

    The Bronze Age – Iron Age hypothesis is nonsense.

    Sloppy archaeologists failed to take iron corrosion (rusting) into account.

    Iron has always been produced.

  120. APilgrim says:
    @Anonymouse

    Michael Evan Mann is a SLAPP fraudster.

    Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Policy (SLAPP) are evil.

  121. Nawyr says:
    @Nawyr

    Further to the point…

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135616

    The derived allele of the KITLG SNP rs12821256 that is associated with – and likely causal for – blond hair in Europeans [4,5] is present in one hunter-gatherer from each of Samara, Motala and Ukraine (I0124, I0014 and I1763), as well as several later individuals with Steppe ancestry.

    Since the allele is found in populations with EHG but not WHG ancestry, it suggests that its origin is in the Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) population. Consistent with this, we observe that earliest known individual with the derived allele is the [Siberian] ANE individual Afontova Gora 3 which is directly dated to 16130-15749 cal BCE (14710±60 BP, MAMS-27186: a previously unpublished date that we newly report here).

  122. Trevor H. says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Call the masses of the modern West “weak and blinkered” if you like, and I don’t completely disagree; still I consider it more accurate and useful to call them brainwashed.

    For while they may well have become soft and pliant in their nature, it’s also true that the brainwashing came from without.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  123. Trevor H. says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    When I was very young, I was captivated by Port Said, because it figured prominently in one of my ViewMaster discs. I think the topic was “culture and geography” and back then we were still free enough not to be required to hate Arabs. I was still a pre-schooler, but I had taught myself to read.

    It was so wonderful to be able to learn whatever you wanted, and I’m not sure I regained that status until graduate school.

  124. Brutusale says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    We had two people shooting it out with the Boston cops yesterday, but the papers didn’t print any photos. Their names were Raquon and Antoine. This Amish crime wave is getting out of hand.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/boston_police_officer_shot_in_south_end_2_arrested

    I find the second photo in the set to be the most disturbing.

    • Replies: @WHAT
    , @Autochthon
  125. Romanian says: • Website
    @ThreeCranes

    Such an interesting comment. I never considered it that way.

  126. @ThreeCranes

    For those who want more, Simon Winchester (for those who can handle his writing style) wrote a book, “The Perfectionists: how precision engineers formed the modern world”. He attempts to document the birth of the concept of “precision measurements”, which is pretty well attributed to James Watt, who couldn’t get a scaled up model of his steam machine to work, who teamed up with John Wilkinson, who is more famous for his method of boring those very steel cannons mentioned (better manufacturing with measurement feedback = fewer exploding cannons).

  127. Romanian says: • Website
    @ThreeCranes

    Have you watched “Forged in Fire”? That sounds like a show for you!

  128. Trutherator says: • Website

    Waves: mountain peoples desire the valley’s riches, plunder, loot, conquer, settle. Repeat.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  129. WHAT says:
    @Brutusale

    >Antoine

    Surely you mean Antwon!

  130. JimS says:
    @Zimriel

    Yes, I remember reading Drews’s The End of the Bronze Age a while back convinced of Steve’s idea, and leaving it convinced that there was no way iron had anything to do with the LBA collapse. My impression today is not many people buy Drews’s thesis of armament and tactics causing the end of the LBA civilisations. But he does a great job of showing why nothing else works, either.

    It seems today most people like to pay lip service to a “systems collapse” without bothering to explain what that actually means. I know Cline talks a lot about environmental changes and a lot happening at once, but no one really says why the empires are so vulnerable all of a sudden. We will probably never know, since the decline of writing (in particular the syllabic alphabets) is one of the prime effects of the collapse. All we can say for sure is that people moved around, there appeared to be decentralization, a lot of cities were burned, and most palace cultures (outside Egypt) seemed to have abruptly stopped.

    It is interesting to compare it to the collapse of Rome. Can we really say for sure why the Western Roman Empire collapsed? It’s not like it just fell when it was sacked in 476 (it had also been sacked 70 years earlier). The Exarchate ruled the Western Empire for hundreds of years after that from Ravenna. But you cannot deny, archaeologically, systematically, and politically, there was a significant shift seemingly centered around that date. What caused that? Why was Rome so ready to fall then – in the words of Kenneth Clark, “exhausted?” A tempting idea is that, as we have significant evidence of Steve’s “Rule By Actresses” in the East less than a century later with Justinian/Theodora (and her friend Antonina) that something similar may have been happening in the west as well. But speculating like this without facts is rarely profitable.

  131. @Anatoly Karlin

    Did the Sea Peoples leave much genetic (or any other) residue behind though?

    I don’t give a fig about no “Sea People.”

    This Sea People business brings to mind the horrible crackpots who claim that hardly anybody in England or The United States has Norman blood or ancestry.

    You hear nasty comments about the Normans leaving not much of a genetic trace or legacy in England or the United States from mostly squalid Saxon scoundrels who got an axe to grind against the Normans to this very day.

    You Saxon saps had your chance to swing your axes at Senlac Hill in 1066, and instead you broke your shield wall and got slaughtered by the Normans.

    I’d rather talk “Sea People” than that Blasey Ford broad, though.

  132. @Anon

    Steel requires large scale coal mining, which wasn’t viable until a method was invented to pump water out of mine shafts.

    Which is exactly why the epicenter of the steel revolution was located on the South Yorkshire coalfield near the River Don with Rotherham right in the middle of things, and why the fortunes of Rotherham and the coal miners went south when the steel industry went East and cleaner alternatives like gas and wind provided energy for power generation.

    For generations underground gas had been the greatest danger to the lives of miners, and in the end subterranean gas killed off their way of life too–which was good news for canaries, but not for South Yorkshire.

  133. OP says:
    @Ibound1

    Yes, that was an odd mistake. I believe the Sardinians claim to be their descendants.

  134. @Zimriel

    Drews’ book, The End of the Bronze Age, is highly recommended (and very readable), a real dose of common sense. It’s held up quite well.

  135. OP says:
    @Twinkie

    Not only does Arnold not look like the original Yamna, he doesn’t even look like the original Conan. Conan the Barbarian was brown skinned, with jet black hair and blue eyes. I know because I own 4 of the original books with the original cover art. The author constantly describes him as “swarthy.” He looked like a WHG.
    He also wasn’t a descendant of an eastern/steep invader, but a native barbarian of Northern Europe and a former slave. I like Steve but I don’t know why he harps on Conan as a representative of the Aryans when he’s nothing of the kind.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski
  136. Stick says:

    So what do we call an invasion of Nike Sneakers and cellphones?

  137. @TelfoedJohn

    Strongly assent. People obsess over political explanations(or solutions) without considering the seemingly arbitrary, yet almighty influence of technology. Kaczynski really needs to be understood by more.

  138. TheJester says:

    “[The immigrants] go to interesting places, meet interesting people, and kill them.”

    iSteve, I don’t see an absolute necessity in the above. Knowing what the new immigrants have in mind, perhaps we can anticipate the end game and change history.

    “The immigrants go to interesting places (our countries), meet interesting people (us), and we kill them.”

  139. “- the invention of agriculture, which encouraged Middle Eastern farmers to invade Europe”

    This is ass backwards. The invention of agriculture led to sedentism, that is fixed habitations. Pastoralists ruled by marcher lords, pressed by drought or some other misfortune, are mobile and able to invade. Read Michael Mann’s The Sources of Social Power volume 1 to get up to speed on what specialists know and argue about.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  140. @Abon

    Year Before (The) Present. It’s somewhat common jargon in archaeology, geology, and similar disciplines regularly concerned with long spans of time and the chronology of events.

  141. @Brutusale

    The Commissioner of Police in Boston is Amish!? Wow. He must be Obamishly charming and mild-mannered for the hypocritical leftists whack-jobs of that whiteopia to have ensconced him.

  142. APilgrim says:

    [Herewith is another post wondering what has happened with Mann v. NR, et al., repeating (with a few updates) what I posted last fall.]

    In 2012, climate scientist Michael Mann filed a defamation suit against National Review, Mark Steyn, the Competitive Enterprise Institute and Rand Simberg over a hyperbolic blog post written by Simberg for the CEI and quoted approvingly by Steyn on National Review Online.

    In December 2016, after sitting on the case for years, the D.C. Court of Appeals (not to be confused with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit) held that Mann’s suit against the CEI, National Review and Simberg may proceed to trial (Steyn having gone his own way in the litigation).

    Whatever Happened to Michael Mann’s Defamation Suit (2018 edition), It’s been over a year since a petition for rehearing en banc was filed and the D.C. Court of Appeals has yet to act. Jonathan H. Adler, Freedom Of Speech/Climate Change,|Feb. 11, 2018 12:08 pm, https://reason.com/volokh/2018/02/11/whatever-happened-to-michael-manns-defam

  143. APilgrim says:

    Rand Simberg and Mark Steyn have asserted a good-faith disagreement with the findings of several commissions, each assembled to investigate claims of misconduct against Dr. Michael Mann. But the division expresses bafflement as to “how [the defendants] came to have such beliefs in light of the reports that had been issued.” Slip op. 89 n.56. The division notes that they were “struck . . . by the composition of the investigatory bodies,” and that the reports “were conducted by credentialed academics and professionals.” Slip op. 85. The clear implication is that anyone in their right mind should have been awed at the assortment of titles and degrees these commissions had collected. Such obvious and unimpeachable authority, in the division’s view, lends itself to a new res ipsa loquitur proof of actual malice: some commissions are so eminent, some institutions are so established, and some personnel are so qualified, that the simple act of voicing dissent with their views may itself be taken as sufficient evidence of bad faith. Slip op. 96–97.

    BRIEF AMICUS CURIAE OF THE CATO INSTITUTE SUPPORTING PETITION FOR REHEARING, COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, ET AL., Defendants-Appellants, and NATIONAL REVIEW, INC., Defendant-Appellant, v. MICHAEL E. MANN, PH.D, Plaintiff-Appellee.https://cei.org/sites/default/files/DC%20Cir.%2C%20Cato%20Amicus.pdf

  144. donut says:
    @The Alarmist

    “1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
    2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
    3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
    4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
    5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
    6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
    7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.
    8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

    9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.”

    The analogy works better if you substitute Europe and the nations settled and built by Europeans as the Tower of Babel . We spoke one language ( western culture) and our language has been confounded but not by the Lord .

    “According to David Livingstone, the Africans whom he met living near Lake Ngami in 1849 had such a tradition, but with the builders’ heads getting “cracked by the fall of the scaffolding” , figures .

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  145. APilgrim says:

    East of Eden: The genealogie of the Patriarchs, &c.

    And Cain knew his wife, and she conceiued and bare Enoch, and hee builded a City, and called the name of the City, after the name of his sonne, Enoch. And vnto Enoch was borne Irad: and Irad begate Mehuiael, and Mehuiael begate Methusael, and Methusael begate Lamech. ¶ And Lamech tooke vnto him two wiues: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Iabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as haue cattell. And his brothers name was Iubal: hee was the father of all such as handle the harpe and organ. And Zillah, she also bare

    Tubal-Cain, an instructer of euery artificer in brasse and iron

    : and the sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah.

    Bible, Old Testament, KJV-1611 (Authorized Version), Genesis Chapter 4, Verses: 17-22, https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-4_Original-1611-KJV/

  146. @Trutherator

    Waves: mountain peoples desire the valley’s riches, plunder, loot, conquer, settle. Repeat.

    Scottish cattle rustlers were honest thieves compared to the globalized central banker scumbags who meet at Jackson Hole to plot their evil monetary deeds.

  147. Twinkie says:
    @Nawyr

    The ANE were not only not dark and not Mongoloid, they were blond 14,000 years ago, and European blond hair came from them:

    You have a reading comprehension problem. Read my passage below again:

    ANEs likely had a somewhat Mongoloid-looking faces and were darker than Western Eurasian farmers, from whom modern Europeans likely inherited the light skin. Though today’s ultra light skin might also be a result of a sweep in the more recent time frame (-5000 years).

    And your understanding of ANEs as blond modern European-looking is completely wrong. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta–Buret%27_culture

    The skeletal remains of MA-1 have been described as phenotypically East Asian (“Mongoloid”). Alexeev (1998, p. 323) in his later publication stated that this area was “inhabited by a population of Mongoloid appearance”.[6] Genomic studies by Raghavan et al. (2014) and Fu et al. (2016) found Mal’ta Buret boy had brown eyes, dark hair and dark skin.[1][7]

    What you don’t seem to understand is that neither the ANEs nor the Yamnaya (one strain of their descendants) appeared like today’s Euroeans or East Asians whose physical appearances are of more recent developments.

    • Replies: @Nawyr
  148. Twinkie says:
    @Anonymouse

    This is ass backwards. The invention of agriculture led to sedentism, that is fixed habitations.

    Agriculture led to increase in population density, which in turn led to expansion for the (eventual) excess population.

  149. @Justice Duvall

    It’s very simple: Jesuits teach both the real and the aspirational elite, the LaSalle Brothers teach the middle class, and the Irish Christian Brothers teach the lower class. That was basically it in the nineteenth century. As Catholics grew in numbers and wealth, things changed a bit: the Benedictines came over from England and immediately usurped the elite role, at least on the East Coast (except for Georgetown Prep, which held its own). The last of the English Benedictine incursions was to St Louis, where St Louis Priory now educates a good part of the Catholic elite, although the Jesuit and LaSalle schools have their loyalists. In California the Jesuits have kept the top spot (although there is the Benedictine Woodside Priory in the Bay Area, founded by refugees from Hungary) with Bellarmine in San Jose and Loyola in Los Angeles. Loyola has been able to keep the loyalty of the very top Catholic families, who continue to send their sons there, while Bellarmine is now a jewel in the educational crown of Silicon Valley. The Jesuits are rich enough to keep their tuition relatively low: they want to make sure that they catch the new elite in each generation, as they have indeed done for some 500 years.
    As for the rest, the lowest schools in the hierarchy were the high schools which were (and are) merely diocesan; that is, run, not be religious orders but by teachers hired by this or that diocese. Such schools have never had any cachet, and rarely develop any sort of esprit de corps.
    For girls, it was and is the two different orders of the Sacred Heart (amusingly, the flag ship schools of each are but a few hundred yards apart on Fifth Avenue) and perhaps the Visitation and Loretto nuns for the elite, and, who knows (not I) about the rest.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  150. @Beckow

    This looks more like an invasion of simple field parasites: they see a rich target, they move in to live off it

    One could read all of human history along these lines, as nothing but a flow of people (sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes stopped altogether for a millennium) toward wherever capital has accumulated into an obvious surplus that is so surplus-y, the rest of the world hears about it very quickly and gravitates toward it.

  151. @ThreeCranes

    What Romanian said. There’s a whole subculture of weapons enthusiasts who try to make late medieval steel plate armor using only the methods available to Henry VIII’s armors. Even with the chemical knowledge they now have, it’s damn difficult to get good quality steel with those old methods.

  152. @Tim

    Is your father Pat Buchanan? He said more or less the same thing about Georgetown Prep to a friend of mine, and said it from the same, Gonzaga-educated perspective.

    Class envy, that’s all.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  153. @Anon

    To be blunt, Africa’s “production of digital products has not kept pace…”

    Just what has the continent produced, technologically, between the pyramids and the heart transplant?

    Sure, there was Alexandria, but that was almost wholly a carpetbag operation. “Greeks, Jews, and Syrians”, according to Wikipedia.

  154. @OP

    Heresy.

    Conan was a Cimmerian, who Robert E. Howard modeled after Celts. He was brown skinned because he led healthy lifestyle of bloodshed and robbery, ie outdoor activities.

  155. @Old Palo Altan

    Is your father Pat Buchanan?

    Sadly, nobody’s father is Pat Buchanan. The Buchanans were infertile. (I almost said “are”, but every couple is at their age.)

    That might explain Pat’s interest in demography. Childlessness, of a variety of causes, is quite common among the great demographic commentators, on both sides. Francis Galton, GB Shaw, Madison Grant, Lothrop Stoddard, GK Chesterton…

    Of course, there are those at the other extreme. Charles Darwin had ten children. Robert Graham, of the Repository for Germinal Choice, had seven, by three wives. David Plotz wrote in the LA Times:

    Graham liked the idea of family in theory, but had trouble with it in practice. Several of his sons had problems, including one who apparently killed himself and another who had health difficulties and died young. Graham’s ambivalent relationship with his brood helped lead him to the obsession that would define the rest of his life.

    http://www.latimes.com/la-tm-spermbank23jun05-story.html#

  156. @ThreeCranes

    I read William Manchester’s book on the Krupps. I got into a Manchester kick after reading his books on Churchill. Manchester in the Marines in the Pacific is good, so too his book on Mencken.

    Germans and steel, glad we got tens of millions of people with full or partial Kraut ancestry in the United States. It’s OK to be German!

    Barrel rifling was invented in Augsburg, Germany in 1498.[5] In 1520 August Kotter, an armourer of Nuremberg, Germany improved upon this work. Though true rifling dates from the mid-16th century, it did not become commonplace until the nineteenth century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling

  157. JMcG says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    Where do the Augustinians fit in this scheme?

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  158. IvyMike says:

    three eras of massive migration in the post-Ice Age
    The most recent Ice Age the author refers to has not ended, we have simply seen an era of warming after the most recent glaciation. Starting the article with so egregious an error seems to suggest the author has no idea of what he/she is writing about. 1st rule of article writing, don’t start off with a silly factual error.

  159. @JMcG

    Far too few schools and founded far too late to have had a national impact. A cursory look at the fewer than ten schools which they run in the USA today would lead me to guess that they were always for the solidly middle class sort of family. The Augustinians are (or were) a respectable order, so I have no reason to doubt that the education they offered was a good one.

    But the opinion of someone with personal knowledge would beat anything I might have to say.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  160. Jim says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The onslaught of the Sea Peoples was about 1200 BC, 3200 years ago. By the way the literal translation of the Egyptian term for the Sea Peoples is “Peoples of the Islands”.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  161. TG says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Indeed. A problem with bronze is that it needs tin (scarce and usually not close by copper deposits) or arsenic (bad for your health, especially before respirators). So once they figured out iron, it removed the vulnerable dependence on remote sources of tin.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  162. Jim says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The Sea Peoples were a mixture of different groups. The Egyptians said that the Philistines came from Crete and there is no reason to doubt their statement. The Philistines were probably Mycenaean Greeks.

  163. Jim says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The Philistines founded the city of Ashkelon. So they stayed around for awhile.

  164. Jim says:
    @Redneck farmer

    The Galatians were Celts who invaded Anatolia from Europe long after the time of the Sea Peoples. They had nothing to do with the Sea Peoples.

  165. @TG

    Yes, my impression is that bronze tended to be kind of a strategic resource, kind of like nuclear weapons, that imperial palace civilizations tended to monopolize, while iron was more of a tactical resource, like AK-47s, that everybody and their brother could manufacture.

    But … there was also a lot of difference in quality and expense of iron produced.

    Also, my guess that the rise of iron undermined Bronze Age empires sounds plausible, but a lot of people who know the records better think the dates don’t match up by maybe 100 years.

    Maybe the big empires, with their ability to control trade from distant tin mines, fell apart first, and then local warlords had to fall back on local resources like iron if they couldn’t make as much bronze anymore?

  166. Jim says:
    @Ibound1

    Talking of the “West” in 1200 BC doesn’t make any sense. Clearly though some of the Sea Peoples were Mycenaean Greeks. The Doric invasion was probably part of the whole upheaval. So probably was the arrival of Phrygians in Anatolia.

  167. @Jim

    Hm, wonder if they were the Stonehenge gang. Ready source of tin in Cornwall.

  168. Nawyr says:
    @Twinkie

    And your understanding of ANEs as blond modern European-looking is completely wrong. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta–Buret%27_culture

    As usual, your reading comprehension has failed you, when paying attention to simple details such as dates could have avoided this.

    Mal’ta-Buret were early (~24,000 years befire present time) ANE. The Afontova Gora ANE were late ANE (ca. 16,000-14,000 years before present time) and had evolved blond hair, and were not Mongoloid. It is Afontova Gora-like ANE who Europeans are mixed with, and it was those ANE who brought blond hair to Europe from Central Asia. They were unquestionably Caucasoid, as the anthropometric and genetic data show.

    And the Mal’ta-Buret classification as “Mongoloid” by mid-20th century Soviet anthropologists like Gerasimov is highly dubious. Gerasimov’s work is today regarded as mostly faulty and many of his classifications have been turned over, such as the Kostenki man which he classified as “Australoid”, but which modern Russian scientists now classify as “Caucasoid”, and his DNA has revealed no affinities to Australian Aboriginal populations. The most recent analysis of Mal’ta-Buret’s dentition (by Zubova) found no Mongoloid traits at all. The cranial remains themselves are fragmentary.

    What you don’t seem to understand is that neither the ANEs nor the Yamnaya (one strain of their descendants) appeared like today’s Euroeans or East Asians whose physical appearances are of more recent developments.

    The ANE looked like modern Nordic Europeans and so did the oldest Proto-Indo Europeans (Samara, Srubnaya, etc), as did the actual Indo Europeans. Yamnaya were later Proto-Indo Europeans who got mixed with darker people, and they never conquered Europe or contributed Y-DNA to modern Europeans. This is a propaganda created by mischlings, mutts, jealous wannabes who wish to conceal the truth of ANE and the origin of Indo Europeans: tall, blond haired, European people with advanced Caucasoid features.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Twinkie
  169. anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nawyr

    The desperation of a Turkish man to prove that he is truly white.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  170. @donut

    but not by the Lord

    You sure about that?

    Maybe you should read the Bible again, this time more carefully, lol.

  171. Twinkie says:
    @Nawyr

    Apparently you don’t understand the word “somewhat.” I did not say that ANEs were Mongoloids. “Mongoloids” (East Asians) and “Caucasoids” (Indo-Europeans) did not exist at the time of the ANEs. Using those terms to describe ANEs is anachronistic and misleading. Rather, what I was trying to get across was that ANEs had some traits that we today would consider Mongoloid, which is not surprising given that they contributed ancestry heavily to various Siberian populations such as the Kets, among whom there is practically no blondness (and close to none among the American Indians – who also inherited a significant amount of ANE ancestry – for that matter).

    The most recent analysis of Mal’ta-Buret’s dentition (by Zubova) found no Mongoloid traits at all. The cranial remains themselves are fragmentary.

    You don’t seem to realize that from today’s point of view, the Mal’ta-Buret’s physical traits as well as that of other ANE groups may appear to be various hybrids of Europeans, Middle Easterners, South Asians, and East Asians (but in fact, all those groups are later hybrids in terms of genetics).

    For example, lack of “Mongoloid” dentition among the Mal’ta-Buret’ does not mean that the people who carried that culture were or looked like today’s modern Europeans who are hybrids of other pulses and later genetic sweeps. That’s the same kind of faulty reasoning as claiming that Mal’ta-Buret’ must be East Asian or Middle Eastern since its DNA analysis found brown eyes, darker eyes and skin than modern Europeans.

    Gerasimov is highly dubious

    You don’t need to rely on Gerasimov to ascertain that the Mal’ta-Buret’ were not light-skinned, blond people. Rhaghavan et al. (2014) analyzed the DNA and found it to be darker-skinned and darker-haired than modern Europeans.

    The Afontova Gora ANE were late ANE (ca. 16,000-14,000 years before present time) and had evolved blond hair

    Before you get too excited, carrying an allele that may have originated (and much later highly selected for) blond hair does not mean that the population originally carrying it was predominantly blond or that the rest of their physical appearance was modern Northern European.

    ca. 16,000-14,000 years before present time

    By c. 14,000 BP, identifiably East Asian gene flow into Europe becomes more likely.

    Does Villabruna 1 ring a bell? The oldest R1b finding in Western Europe?

    See Fu et al.: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301742169_The_genetic_history_of_Ice_Age_Europe

    The Villabruna Cluster is represented by the largest number of indi-viduals in this study. This allows us to study heterogeneity within this cluster (Supplementary Information section 13). First, we detect dif-ferences in the degree of allele sharing with members of the El Mirón Cluster, as revealed by significant statistics of the form D(Test1, Test2; El Mirón Cluster, Mbuti). Second, we detect an excess of allele shar-ing with east Asians in a subset of Villabruna Cluster individuals— beginning with an ~13,000-year-old individual from Switzerland—as revealed by significant statistics of the form D(Test1, Test2; Han, Mbuti) (Fig. 4b and Extended Data Fig. 3). For example, Han Chinese share more alleles with two Villabruna Cluster individuals (Loschbour and LaBrana1) than they do with Kostenki14, as reflected in significantly negative statistics of the form D(Kostenki14, Loschbour/LaBrana1; Han, Mbuti)4. This statistic was originally interpreted as evidence of Basal Eurasian ancestry in Kostenki14. However, because this statistic is con-sistent with zero when Han is replaced with Ust’-Ishim, these findings cannot be driven by Basal Eurasian ancestry (as we discuss earlier), and must instead be driven by gene flow between populations related to east Asians and the ancestors of some Europeans (Supplementary Information section 8).

    And Eurogenes’ commentary on that study: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/05/villabruna-cluster-near-eastern-migrants.html

    - Present-day East Asians might be ancient hybrids with admixture from the same or very similar North Eurasian population, although as per the above mentioned quirks of Treemix, it’s possible that the North Eurasians that contributed ancestry to Villabruna, Caucasus foragers and Eurasian steppe populations were in fact partly East Asian

    As for this:

    Yamnaya were later Proto-Indo Europeans who got mixed with darker people, and they never conquered Europe or contributed Y-DNA to modern Europeans. This is a propaganda created by mischlings, mutts, jealous wannabes who wish to conceal the truth of ANE and the origin of Indo Europeans: tall, blond haired, European people with advanced Caucasoid features.

    This tells me you are motivated by highly unscientific Nordicism. Good luck with all that.

    • Replies: @Nawyr
  172. Twinkie says:
    @anonymous

    The desperation of a Turkish man to prove that he is truly white.

    Not just that, but the most original and the best kind of white!

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  173. Nawyr says:
    @Twinkie

    Apparently you don’t understand the word “somewhat.” I did not say that ANEs were Mongoloids. “Mongoloids” (East Asians) and “Caucasoids” (Indo-Europeans) did not exist at the time of the ANEs. Using those terms to describe ANEs is anachronistic and misleading. Rather, what I was trying to get across was that ANEs had some traits that we today would consider Mongoloid, which is not surprising given that they contributed ancestry heavily to various Siberian populations such as the Kets, among whom there is practically no blondness (and close to none among the American Indians – who also inherited a significant amount of ANE ancestry – for that matter).

    Yet again, our resident dumbass “Twinkie” has demonstrated his utter lack of analytical reasoning or reading comprehension;

    Caucasoids absolutely existed before ANE; essentially every Eurasian cranial remains of the upper paleolithic in Eurasia were Caucasoid. One skull from Skhul cave in Palestine, dated to over 90,000 YBP (Levant Levalloiso-Mousterian) was described as Caucaaoid by Keith and Mcgowan in their book “The Stone Age of Mount Carmel.”

    The Ket are not fully physically Mongoloid and neither are Native Americans. Native Americans and the Ket have Mongoloid features because they are substantially admixed with East Eurasians and the ANE they are mixed with likely had not yet evolved blond hair, which seems to have evolved around 14,000aYBP in Eurasian ANE.

    Obvious Caucasoid features in Native American males:


    The Afontova Gora DNA sequences lack the East Eurasian admixture in Native Americans, which is over 60% of their population ancestry.

    I have said it once, I will say it again: the ANE that Europeans have came from fully Caucasoid, blond ANE less than 14,000 years before present time. That is why post-Steppe admixture Europeans had blond hair and also why Indo Europeans and even their Turkic and Mongolic descendants were so blond and red haired. The closest DNA sample to Afontova Gora 3 was Iron Age Scythians and they were universally blond haired. The earliest Proto-Indo Europeans (Samara) were also blond haired. So there is no doubt that ANE was blond hair >14,000 years ago and it was the spread of Proto-Indo and Indo Europeans which took blond hair west and east across Eurasia.

    This isn’t “Nordicism”, it is the reality established by molecular genetics which youbare choosing to ignore, and your only reaponse is to throw around bywords like “Nordicism”. It isn’t “Nordicism”, it’s reality.

    Keep blathering about Mal’ta-Buret (who were actually mixed) as if it even matters. Those people are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in time & evolutiion, and not at all relevant to the discussion of the ANE who actually make up part of modern West Eurasians. You are either a government paid troll or a very, very sad little man to continue posting your Mal’ta-Buret quotes.

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