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A reader writes:
I watched Friday night’s football game of Stanford vs. Wash St. and noticed a white running back (Christian McCaffrey, true freshman) for the Cardinal catch a swing pass and then sprint very fast past a bunch of opposing players. So I googled him and found that he is the son of former NFL WR Ed McCaffrey (3x Super Bowl winner) and his mother was a soccer star at Stanford. I remember his uncle Billy playing basketball at Duke and then Vandy.
Sprinters David Sime and Bobby Joe Morrow
Most interesting is his maternal grandfather, David Sime. He earned a silver medal in the 100m at the 1960 Rome Olympics. At one time, Sime held world records in the 100m & 200m.
Before the 1960 Olympics, Sime played football for Duke. They’d just send him long on every play. In his first football game, against Notre Dame Sime caught touchdown passes on Duke’s first two plays from scrimmage, and after that Notre Dame triple-teamed him.
Then he became an ophthalmologist. He’s retired now, and plays golf twice a week with his pal Don Shula.
I wonder if Sime was the inspiration for a wide receiver character in Dan Jenkins’ NFL novel Semi-Tough? The team starts at flanker a research scientist, a former Olympic hurdler, who doesn’t practice with the team, he just flies in from his lab on Friday night and goes long on every down on Sunday.
Or perhaps Jenkins was thinking of 1956 triple gold medalist Bobby Morrow? (Here’s a 1984 Texas Monthly article about Morrow by William Martin of Rice U.)
Christian McCaffrey is 6′ 195. His dad is 6’5 from what I remember. McCaffrey seems to be a 3rd stringer
With those kind of ancestors he should at least be a 2nd stringer!
behind 2nd stringer Barry Sanders Jr.
Oh … sorry, never mind.
P.S., Perhaps unsurprisingly given Stanford’s history, the Stanford website pays a lot of attention to its athletes’ breeding:
• Full name is Christian Jackson McCaffrey
• Son of Ed and Lisa McCaffrey
• Mother played soccer at Stanford (1987-90)
• Father played football at Stanford (1986-1991) and professionally for the New York Giants (1991-94), San Francisco 49ers (1994) and Denver Broncos (1994-2003)
• Three brothers: Max, Dylan and Luke
• Max plays receiver at Duke
• Grandfather, David Sime, ran track at Duke
• 1960 silver medalist in 100-yard dash at 1960 Summer Olympics
• 1956 world record holder in 100-yard dash
• Aunt, Sherrie Sime Giusto, played tennis at Virginia (1979-1983)
• Uncle, Scott Sime, played football and wrestled at Duke (1982-1986)
• Aunt, Monica McCaffrey Check, played basketball at Georgetown (1987-1991)
• Uncle, Bill McCaffrey, played basketball at Duke (1990-1991) and Vanderbilt (1992-1994)
• Uncle, Mike McCaffrey, played basketball at Husson College (1995-1999)
Okay, as a commenter points out, in the grand Stanford tradition of David Starr Jordan, Lewis Terman, Fred Terman, and William Shockley, from Stanford.scout.com in 2013:
His bloodline directed him toward Palo Alto, too. While Ed McCaffrey was spectacular on the football field, Christian’s mother, Lisa, was a soccer player on The Farm.
“That’s why Ed and I got together,” she told Sports Illustrated in 1998. “So we could breed fast white guys.”
The plan worked. Christian has been clocked at 4.47 in the 40-yard dash and believes he can run even faster — think sub-4.4 territory.
Here’s that 1998 Sports Illustrated article about his father Ed McCaffrey:
With no pomp and precious little padding, the Broncos’ deceptively fast Ed McCaffrey has become the NFL’s unlikeliest star wide receiver
BY MICHAEL SILVER
Originally Posted: November 30, 1998He’s a goofy-looking white guy in a world of hip-hop flash, and
that makes Ed McCaffrey one heck of a target. On Sundays the
Denver Broncos’ wideout subjects his nearly padless body to
continuous punishment. On Mondays he reads rip jobs in the press
about his supposed lack of athletic ability. But nothing is as
daunting to him as the first practice day after he has had his
shock of strawlike brown hair trimmed, a task the man who ranks
third in the AFC in receiving yards entrusts to Supercuts. …No prominent NFL player has munched as much humble pie as
McCaffrey. During his eight-year career he has been kicked off a
team bus for impersonating a player, ordered to pick up towels
by a locker room janitor and laughed out of a golf tournament
filled with NFL players after he shot a sterling 155. But if you
really want to see embarrassment, check out the body language of
a defensive back who has just watched the 6’5″, 215-pound
McCaffrey beat him for a big gain. “You’ll see their heads slump
to the ground every time he scores,” says Rod Smith, the
Broncos’ other starting wideout.It’s the same look that NBA players gave Larry Bird as he rose
to stardom in the early ’80s: the
I-can’t-believe-I-just-got-burned-by-this-white-dude face.“That’s just a big old ego thing, to be shamed because a guy
like Ed beat up on you,” says Shannon Sharpe, Denver’s All-Pro
tight end. “But there’s reality and there’s perception, and
people are starting to notice Ed for the wrong reason: because
he’s a big white guy and not because he’s an unbelievable
player. He’ll probably be the first white receiver to go to the
Pro Bowl since Steve Largent. At some point the guy’s got to get
some credit.”…
Denver’s All-Pro running back, Terrell Davis, says, “When peopletalk about big-time receivers, Ed doesn’t get mentioned. That’s unfair. But the more they ignore him, the better it is for us.” …
Seattle Seahawks cornerback Shawn Springs learned that the hard
way in September ’97, in his second game as a pro. McCaffrey
burned him for eight catches and two scores, and Springs was
penalized three times while trying to cover him. “If you watch
film on a guy like that, you don’t know how good he is,” says
Springs. “You think he’s just this really big white guy.”The underlying assumption, of course, is that white
guys–especially large, long-striding receivers such as
McCaffrey–are slow. McCaffrey can handle immeasurable grief
about his hair, unhip wardrobe and nervous neck twitches, but
make a crack about his speed and he’s more defensive than
Calista Flockhart. It’s a reaction provoked by years of jabs,
including one by a Giants Weekly writer who said he’d “seen
better moves by Ironside” and another that appeared in a 1996 SI
article suggesting that McCaffrey “should be an Amway
distributor by now, he’s so slow.”If you’re doing an interview with McCaffrey, speed kills. “Are
you going to rip Ed for being slow again, or do you plan on
writing the truth for a change?” his wife, Lisa, asks as she
bounces through the kitchen of their house a few miles south of
the Broncos’ facility. While giving constant chase to their two
sons–Max, 4, and Christian, 2–Lisa gets off the best lines of
the interview. Noting that her father, sprinter David Sime,
graced SI’s cover in 1956, Lisa riffs, “That’s why Ed and I got
together–so we could breed fast white guys.”If Ed, whose comments tend to be bland and cliche-ridden, is
plain mustard, Lisa is wasabi. “It’s like a comedy show,” says
former 49ers offensive lineman Harris Barton, a good friend of
the McCaffreys’. “Ed’s the setup guy, and she comes up with the
punch line. They work like a team to try to make you feel bad
about yourself.” …When Ed and Lisa aren’t breeding fast white guys–they’re
expecting their third son in April–they amuse themselves by
making prank calls. In one of their favorites, Ed pretends he’s
with the water company and tells his victim he wants to check
the neighborhood’s water pressure. “I tell him to turn on all
the faucets and flush the toilets,” Ed says. “If that works, I
ask him to do it again. [Colorado Avalanche right wing] Claude
Lemieux flushed three times before he caught on. The Romanowskis
[Broncos linebacker Bill and his wife, Julie] are a five- or
six-flush family.”The McCaffreys met in 1990 at Stanford, where Ed was finishing a
stellar career. A three-sport star from Allentown, Pa., he chose
Stanford largely because coaches there fancied him as a wideout
rather than as a tight end. “I was pretty dorky in high school,”
McCaffrey says. “I was pretty much of a recluse. Meeting Lisa
lightened me up.”Ed clicked with Lisa, then a Stanford soccer player, at a mutual
friend’s birthday party at Max’s Opera Cafe, a Palo Alto
restaurant that would serve as the inspiration for their first
son’s name. “I thought he was pretty hot,” Lisa recalls. “But he
had this terrible ’70s ‘do–long in the back, and bangs straight
across the middle like Moe from the Three Stooges.” Ed doesn’t
have bad-hair days, he has bad-hair decades. The next time the
two went out, Lisa slipped into the conversation, “You know, I’m
really good at cutting hair.”An hour later they were back at Ed’s off-campus apartment, where
Lisa gave her first-ever haircut. “She was using these little
thread scissors,” Ed says, “and it took her an hour and 45
minutes.”When the Broncos aren’t goofing on McCaffrey’s ‘do, they’re
making fun of his wardrobe. One teammate says McCaffrey looks as
if he “dresses in airline blankets.” His game-day attire is
particularly unpretentious. “Guys are wearing Versace, Armani,
Gucci,” says Justin Armour, a Denver backup receiver, “and
homeboy will show up in unmatching Polo sweats, old running
shoes and a DirecTV hat.”But what truly sets McCaffrey apart is what he wears–or doesn’t
wear–once he takes the field. To rid himself of unnecessary
weight, he defaces his uniform. He cuts out the lining, belt
buckle and pockets of his pants, punches holes in his jersey,
even slices off all but a half inch of the band above his
athletic supporter, creating what amounts to a G-string jockstrap.The only padding McCaffrey wears is a discontinued model of
shoulder pads (Wilson’s 77-I Aggressor) that, according to
Broncos equipment manager Doug West, “you wouldn’t even put on a
junior high kid. I’ve tried to take his pads from him, because
they’re right on the borderline of safety, but he won’t let me.”This decrease in padding leads to an increase in pain, but
McCaffrey says it’s tolerable. “Getting lighter probably gives
me more of a psychological edge than a physical one,” he says,
“but I guess I had a complex about being slow, because so many
things have been written.”Ah, the speed trap: The stigma of slowness is tougher to escape
than any defensive back. Yet it’s not applied to all white guys.
No one accuses Ed’s younger brother, Billy, of lacking
quickness. Billy, who played on Duke’s ’91 national championship
team and was an All-America point guard at Vanderbilt in ’93 and
’94, avoided that rap by keeping up with future NBA studs such
as Kenny Anderson and Allan Houston. “Growing up, everyone used
to assume I was faster than Ed,” says Billy, who has played
abroad the past several seasons. “But every time we’d race, he’d
win.”Shortly before the ’91 NFL draft, Ed says, he ran consecutive
4.38 40s that were timed by the San Diego Chargers. Though
McCaffrey never was a full-time starter with the New York
Giants, who took him in the third round of the draft, he led the
team in receptions in his second year, with 49. His aw-shucks
appearance also made him a primary target off the field. He was
routinely denied access to the team bus by drivers who didn’t
believe he was a player. “Phil Simms and Lawrence Taylor would
tell the driver they’d never seen me before and make me wait
outside for five minutes,” McCaffrey says.Once at Giants training camp, McCaffrey was the last player in
the locker room, and a janitor approached him and began
screaming, “Pick up those damn towels!” When the shocked
McCaffrey didn’t respond, the janitor ordered him out of the room.After Dan Reeves replaced Ray Handley as the Giants’ coach
before the ’93 season, McCaffrey’s role diminished. …Reeves, who now coaches the Atlanta Falcons, recently said that cutting McCaffrey was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made.
After a yearlong apprenticeship under Rice and Taylor in San
Francisco, McCaffrey was lured to Denver, which had hired
Shanahan following the Niners’ Super Bowl victory over the
Chargers in January ’95. Bill Walsh, who came out of retirement
to spend the ’95 season as an offensive assistant with San
Francisco, says he was told the team lost a chance to retain
McCaffrey when it balked at paying him $350,000 a season.
McCaffrey won a starting job in ’96 and caught a total of 93
passes for 1,143 yards and 15 touchdowns over the next two
seasons….The game showed
what a steal Denver had in a player who will earn a relatively
paltry $897,000 a year through 2000. A few weeks earlier Sharpe
had created a stir by telling USA Today, “If Ed McCaffrey was
black…he’d be making three-and-a-half million dollars a year.”
McCaffrey went on to peak in 2000 at age 32 with 101 receptions for 1317 yards.
Stanford seems unusually friendly to white running backs. Toby Gerhart, Heisman finalist and the only white starting running back in the NFL, was a Stanford product.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/keeping-the-white-man-down-in-the-backfield/#comment-735815
jody bait.
Their basketball team tends to be whiter too than a lot of major programs. It’s the higher academic standards.
Notre Dame football too- Collinsworth’s son, David Robinson’s son, Montana’s son, Golic’s sons, Bon Jovi’s son, Tori Hunter’s son, George Atkinson’s son…
Well Norte Dame is trying to 'diversify' its musical genre by inviting Snoop Dogg's son to its football team.
I remember reading an SI article about McCaffrey back in the 90s wherein his wife stated they got married so they could spawn fast white kids. Since I hadn’t heard anything about new McCaffreys, I figured that hadn’t worked out since quite often it doesn’t. Turns out her strategy worked after all.
Tommy Vardell, who was from Stanford, was actually drafted in the 1st round by Cleveland Browns (9th pick overall) Had a descent career and like lot of running backs, retired due to injuries.
Currently in college, there’s a white running back, Brendan Douglass, who will probably end up playing in NFL some day. Good size and good speed/quickness. Plays for George. This is what he did last Saturday.
Brad Muster ( Stanford) was drafted in the first round by the Chicago Bears in 1988 and played in the NFL until 1994 . He may have been the last white running back to have been a 1st round pick but I’ll leave it to people more expert than I to expound on that. He was more a fullback in the mold of John Riggins and Larry Czonka, two other white running backs from the 70′s and 80′s, who while not fleet of foot, could grind out 10 and 20 yard gains by running over tacklers. I saw an interview with a former NFL linebacker ( black) who proudly showed the imprint of Riggins uniform fabric where Riggins knee had impacted on the man’s leg… decades later. Alas the NFL is all speed today and 250lbs running backs are considered obsolete.
Muster was a relatively slow, non powerback who was falsely considered a power back.
Czonka was a true power fullback. A bigger Jim Taylor.
Riggins was a rocket, a fast powerful runner more of a true big half back than full back.
This is the problem. As soon as someone sees a White athlete he has to be "that kind of guy". Usually slow, hardworking and maybe dumb jock meat head or Christian guy or hardworker/military type.
The only way White athletes will ever go to the next level into the "black game" now is through some kind of Eugenics. If Riggins and a top European sprinter had kids or basketball freak Tom Chambers and an Olympic long jumper had kids they would produce some genetic superstars otherwise pretty much forget it.
If memory serves, I think David Sime was something a Bo Jackson type in college, he played football, baseball, and track and field at Duke just like Jackson did later at Auburn. He dominated the sprints: The 100 yard and 220 yard and the 220 yard low hurdles ( And held world records at all three simultaneously ) the last one something that evidently isn’t run anymore. I also remember finding a year in review encyclopedia from the 1950′s when I was in HS and it mentioned some other track and field events he also participated in at Duke, one of them I recall wasn’t a typical sprinter-jumper event, it was either discus or javelin as well. He was considered a white Jesse Owens amongst the track and field types from that era, back when white guys weren’t told they were supposed to suck at sprinting and jumping events. Sports Illustrated referred to him as ” Superman in Spikes ” He also held or tied indoor records at 60, 70, 80, and 100 yards as well as the previously mentioned outdoor events and the 100 meters and 200 meters outdoors as well. I guess he consistently beat Morrow throughout college, who was also white and won 3 gold medals in the 100 meters, 200 meters, and the 4X100 meters relay at the 1956 Melbourne Olympics until he got injured prior to the Olympics in the US championships ( Which btw, where held in the winter that year because of the reversal of seasons in the Southern Hemisphere )
Sime lost the 1960 Olympic 100m final to Armin Hary of West Germany in a photo-finish:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/jan/10/frozen-in-time-olympics-100m
In this EconTalk podcast, Roger Noll says that there are 70 to 80 kids with the skills, abilities, and academic chops to both get admitted to and play football at Stanford graduating from high school each year. Stanford has to recruit 25 of them.
I bet they keep track of likely suspects. They have to.
I liked your post on September 22 about debt and immigration.
Have you read War Cycles - Peace Cycles, by Richard Kelly Hoskins?
I did not read the book but I did read interviews with the author, and any summary I can find. It sounds very similar to what you're suggesting.
From what I gather, it forecasts a dark future for America, namely a third world invasion and collapse.
Funny that you mention William Martin. Had dinner with the Martin’s a couple of months back. He’s doing quite well and mixed a hell of a Boulevardier. Going over their family photos on the walls was a study in breeding that you’d love. The sheepskins that their children and nieces and nephews have collected along with interesting career paths…
John Riggins ran a 9.6 second 100 yards in college at Kansas. He wasn’t slow.
Yep I remember him well. I think he went to Duke on a baseball scholarship and the baseball coach noticed his speed and alerted the track coach. I saw him in an indoor meet on the East coast when he started his college career. His races with Texan Bobby Morrow were classic. There were a lot of good white sprinters in the 40s and 50s: Thane Baker of Kansas State (who ran under 10 seconds in the 100 yard dash in his 40s) and Mel Patton of USC (World record holder at 100 and 220 yards).
Matthew Parris is gay and a leading light in the UK Conservative Party. The Tories lost a by-election to UKIP and this is what he had to say about the (white) people in provincial Britain who used to vote Tory. Then they wonder why they are losing support. (Hat-tip Breitbart London)
“This is Britain on crutches. This is tracksuit-and-trainers Britain, tattoo-parlour Britain, all-our-yesterdays Britain. So of course UKIP will do well in the by-election.
My aim, though, is not to deny UKIP its likelihood of victory. They make a good fit for Clacton. Somebody has to represent the static caravans and holiday villages, and the people and places that for no fault of their own are not getting where a 21sth century Britain needs to be going. Nor do I deny that we Conservatives, if we tried hard enough, could get some of these voters back.
There are many in a place like this who might be attracted again to the Tories by a noisy display of hostility towards immigration-and-Europe, political correctness and health-and-safety: hostility to a Britain that has forgotten the joys of Ken Dodd, meat pies, smoking in pubs and the Bee Gees.
No, my aim is to ask this: is that where the Conservative party wants to be? Is it where the Tories need to be if they’re to gather momentum in this century, rather than slowly lose it? Or do we need to be with the Britain that has its career prospects ahead and not behind, that can admire immigrants and want them with us, that doesn’t want to spend its days buying scratchcards and its evenings smoking in pubs, that’s amazed at all the fuss about whether gays should marry, that travels in Europe and would hesitate to let those links go?
I’m not arguing that we should be careless of the needs of struggling people and places such as Clacton. But I am arguing – if I am honest – that we should be careless of their opinions.”
Barry Sanders, Jr. is built like Eric Dickerson http://youtu.be/Xu9Q04L4a7k
Maybe if Dickerson was 5" shorter.
Toby Gerhart’s career suggests there is a reason why we don’t see more star white running backs in the NFL.
But that’s Noticing!
I liked how Dickerson would step out of bounds to avoid a hit. Dickerson, Deion, and Michael Spinks — three guys who had sensible objections to getting whomped.
We need suggestions to improve American football, in the same way Steve gave advice on how to improve Soccer/Futball at the last World Cup.
#1 – No helmets or padding – let them earn their millions.
#2 – ?
#2 Unify the college and pro rules. It absurd to make the fans keep two sets in their heads. And since big-time college has, over the decades, become the de facto farm system for the NFl, it's even sillier to make the trainees play a different game than the one they're preparing for. Those one-foot-in catches would be exciting NFL plays, like they are in college, if only they counted. And college has gotta quit stopping the clock on every first down. We don't have all day.
#3 If the TV money for Thursday night games is too good to give back, then at least schedule two teams coming off a bye. That's why the early season games have stunk. The teams haven't practiced much (no more two-a-days, remember, and except for week three, the starters hardly play in pre-season), and it shows.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/30257663-419/whats-up-with-former-nu-star-bob-christian.html#.VDtvFmddWEw
“deceptively fast Ed McCaffrey”
Kind of like the deceptively smart Neil de Grasse Tyson?
tl;dr Texas is the one place that refused to give NDT an affirmative action boost.
[…] Source: Steve Sailer […]
“The Romanowskis [Broncos linebacker Bill and his wife, Julie] are a five- or six-flush family.”
No surprise there. Bill Romanowski was a roided-up meathead.
You could add Floyd Mayweather to that list.
No surprise there. Bill Romanowski was a roided-up meathead.
IIRC, Bill once broke some quarterback’s jaw by spearing him.
The best Bill Romanowski story is how he showed up at Broncos HQ uninvited and gave a PowerPoint presentation about why he should be the Broncs new head coach. At that point I don’t think he had a day of coaching experience at any level. Not a man who lacks for confidence.
That said I won’t be surprised if Peyton Manning becomes the Vols head coach the day after he retires from the NFL so coaching experience isn’t always necessary. I’m sure Romanowski would have hired top notch cordinators and got along with them swimmingly. A level headed man all around.
Can’t imagine why any owner would hire a former player with no coaching experience as a head coach. Let him start as a position coach instead.
The owners are jock sniffers.
For four years, he was stuck behind the best running back in a generation, and he averaged more than 4.5 YPC in that time in enough carries to make it a reasonable sample size.
Muster, Riggins and Czonka were only alike because they were tall, White running backs. Otherwise they were very unalike.
Muster was a relatively slow, non powerback who was falsely considered a power back.
Czonka was a true power fullback. A bigger Jim Taylor.
Riggins was a rocket, a fast powerful runner more of a true big half back than full back.
This is the problem. As soon as someone sees a White athlete he has to be “that kind of guy”. Usually slow, hardworking and maybe dumb jock meat head or Christian guy or hardworker/military type.
The only way White athletes will ever go to the next level into the “black game” now is through some kind of Eugenics. If Riggins and a top European sprinter had kids or basketball freak Tom Chambers and an Olympic long jumper had kids they would produce some genetic superstars otherwise pretty much forget it.
It's also a sobering fact that boxing was the #2 sport in the US for the nearly all of the first half of the 20th Century and high school boxing teams were common until the 1950s.
Muster, Riggins and Czonka were only alike because they were tall, White running backs. Otherwise they were very unalike.
Muster was a relatively slow, non powerback who was falsely considered a powerback.
Czonka was a true power fullback. A bigger Jim Taylor.
Riggins was a rocket, a fast powerful runner more of a true big half back than fullback. They even wasted him as a blocker early on.
This is the problem. As soon as someone sees a White athlete he has to be “that kind of guy”. Usually slow, hardworking or maybe dumb jock/juice head or Christian guy or hardworker/military type.
The only way White athletes will ever go to the next level into the “black game” now is through some kind of Eugenics. If Riggins and a top European sprinter had kids or basketball freak Tom Chambers and an Olympic long jumper had kids they would produce some genetic superstars otherwise pretty much forget it.
I was being sarcastic. Rowmanowski would have been a disaster. His bid to be head coach wasnt taken seriously at all.
“Barry Sanders, Jr. is built like Eric Dickerson”
Maybe if Dickerson was 5″ shorter.
Three words: Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy
Muster was a relatively slow, non powerback who was falsely considered a power back.
Czonka was a true power fullback. A bigger Jim Taylor.
Riggins was a rocket, a fast powerful runner more of a true big half back than full back.
This is the problem. As soon as someone sees a White athlete he has to be "that kind of guy". Usually slow, hardworking and maybe dumb jock meat head or Christian guy or hardworker/military type.
The only way White athletes will ever go to the next level into the "black game" now is through some kind of Eugenics. If Riggins and a top European sprinter had kids or basketball freak Tom Chambers and an Olympic long jumper had kids they would produce some genetic superstars otherwise pretty much forget it.
Maybe USA should just admit that American football is just too dangerous (brain damage and short lifespans) and make a big switch to rugby or Australian Rules. You know, kind of like with smoking.
It’s also a sobering fact that boxing was the #2 sport in the US for the nearly all of the first half of the 20th Century and high school boxing teams were common until the 1950s.
“Opthamologist” = ophthalmologist.
Yes, as a situational back alternating with one of the all time greats, Gerhart can be effective. As a feature back he has been pretty poor. Danny Woodhead is another white running back who is devastating in the right situations and the right scheme, but you could never build an offense around the guy, or rely on him to preserve your 4th quarter lead by running the ball into the line 8 times in a row.
“John Riggins ran a 9.6 second 100 yards in college at Kansas. He wasn’t slow.”
I’ve been wrong before, but that is incredibly fast. I just googled the record on that, it has been replaced by the 100 meter, but the record is 9.0 seconds in 1974.
I have no problem with saying John Riggins was fast (and was probably at his fastest in college), but that seems kind of like too fast a time. I don’t know his college size but Riggins was in the 230-240 pound range when he was a Redskin. Even more than a decade earlier he would have been around 210-220. Just hard to believe.
You hear about Bob Hayes and whatnot, but that kind of speed is uncommon in the NFL. Most of the guys that have been considered fast in the NFL would not have been competitive if they had transitioned to track instead.
As a sidenote the guy that talked about Riggins and Csonka and what they did on the field was right. I remember seeing Muster play a college game or two, but don’t remember him in the pros. He might have been right about him as well.
Actually one of the best white running backs I saw was Rob Carpenter for the Oilers right after Earl Campbell. He got ended by the injury bug.
Same for Craig James, the douche supreme. Really good athlete for all that.
IN SI after the above Super Bowl Paul Zimmerman wrote that the scouting report on Riggins out of Kansas called him a "white Jimmy Brown."
Wow! Didn’t expect to find Barry Sanders coupled with Eninem’s great hit. Just another Michigan morning.
Look I have watched a lot of football. I have opinions and theories based on that, and readings I have done. I am going to make some statements that I think are the results of cold analysis, and don’t reflect underlying attitudes or racism or sour grapes or whatever.
Football… is kind of a degenerate game. By that I mean it has become so specialized that you have to have certain physical attributes to play certain positions.
The hardest position for a white player is cornerback. This is one of the hardest positions to find a great player at. You pretty much have to be sub 4.5 in the forty even to be considered average at this position. Additionally you have to have “hips,” which is a nebulous term, but basically that a guy doesn’t slow down when changing direction. Additionally you have to have some height, the taller the better, but the position is so demanding that coaches will take what they can get if they have the other attributes.
Receivers can be tall and use it to their advantage. In the end corners have to react to the receiver, and practically this means that really tall corners are unknown. As far as I know their has never been a cornerback over 6’4,” and it is a real once in a decade oddity to see one play even briefly in the NFL. Some all time great NFL corners like Mel Blount (there is another I can’t remember about the same time) played at 6’3″ but when the NFL changed the bump and run coverage rules you didn’t see them any more.
If you can get a 6’2″ inch cornerback, who runs a 4.4 and has good “hips.” you are so very, very happy as a coach. Well odds are if he has good hands he would have been switched to wide receiver somewhere along the way, but coaches take what they can get.
Which brings me to a real statistical anomaly, Jason Sehorn. 6’2″ 210 pounds, white, and an elite shutdown corner. There hasn’t been another guy like this in … well ever. Roger Wehrli for the Cardinals late 60′s to early 80′s is the only other guy like him I can think of, but he didn’t have as much speed as Sehorn.
Now to get back to running backs. This position has changed. NFL teams just don’t care to invest in a feature back anymore, or draft them highly, with Adrian Peterson a notable exception. When they do they usually get burned, like Trent Richardson.
That said, I think teams and fans overvalue the long run when it comes to running backs. This is a good area for stats wonks to go all psycho, but the mode for running backs is probably under a 4 yard run. (BTW I am talking about NFL here)
And I’m willing to bet that if you noted the race of running backs when you did statistical analysis you would find that if you eliminated runs over say 20 or 30 yards there is no statistical difference between white and black running backs.
I do not know of any pro offenses that have ever been predicated on the expectation of long runs. College may have been different at times, the Sooners of the 70′s perhaps. But when you run you grind out first downs for the most part.
So practically I would think the race of the back really doesn’t matter with what you are trying to do, particularly in the NFL now, which actively favors the passing game. Along with the fact that NFL defenses have totally conquered the running game, except when college running formations like the Wildcat and Spread (Tebow Broncos) are used. They just do not get the holes they got even n the 70′s with modern NFL “conventional” running games.
One other thing. I am not convinced that blacks are better athletes than whites. I can tell you that paradoxically blacks (I am only familiar with American blacks from West Africa) cannot take heat.
They also get hurt more in my experience, which is counter to what I have seen stated by a number of people.
The perception problem is that American sports, particularly the spectator sports are heavily biased to valuing explosion and sheer speed. Endurance just doesn’t factor into these at all for the most part. Strength is a little more complicated, but explosive strength as opposed to powerlifting strength is similar.
Anyway my 2 cents. As a curiousity there have been some really exceptional white athletes from a size speed standpoint. Ken Hall, Joe Don Looney. They were either head cases (Looney), or lacked any form of moves and cutting abilitey (Hall and Looney).
To expand on something else, you really could see more white receivers, but I really don’t think white players are playing the game as much. Dave Logan, Kirk Gibson, you just don’t see guys like this anymore, college or pro.
Kind of like the deceptively smart Neil de Grasse Tyson?
Neil Degrasse Tyson is a guy who likes science and probably has an IQ in the 105-110 range. Check out this article from the University of Texas alumni mag about NDT’s lackluster grad school performance there. http://alcalde.texasexes.org/2012/02/star-power/
tl;dr Texas is the one place that refused to give NDT an affirmative action boost.
“John Riggins and Larry Czonka, two other white running backs from the 70′s and 80′s, who while not fleet of foot”
—————————————————————————————–
John Riggins was the Kansas state 100 yard dash champion. He was definitely fleet of foot.
Steve,
Barry Sanders often ran out of bounds and was rarely hit hard because no one could get a handle on him. The desire to keep his body intact was not only good strategy, but his stated reason for walking away from the Lions on the verge of breaking Payton’s all-time rushing record. I thought it was a combination of simply not wanting to play for the pitiful Lions anymore, plus the fact that he really never loved being an NFL player. He positively shunned the limelight. Note his touchdown celebrations. One of the great things about the highlight reel is seeing all of the Lion QB stiffs handing the ball off to him (Charlie Batch, Scott Mitchell, Erik Kramer, Rodney Peete, Andre Ware).
On another note, the former Michigan wide receiver John Kolesar was a fraternity brother of a friend of mine. That 1987 team included future NFL players Tony Boles (RB), Jarrod Bunch (RB), Leroy Hoard (RB), Jamie Morris (RB), Greg McMurtry (WR) and Chris Calloway (WR).
Kolesar was the fastest guy on that team.
Christian is a true freshman, but every time he touches the ball great things happen for Stanford. It makes you wonder, considering how bad their other running backs are (Sanders is so-so), why he doesn’t play more. He even returned a punt for a touchdown and averages more yards per touch than any other back on Stanford.
Perhaps the black head coach (David Shaw) isn’t enamored with white running backs???
I bet they keep track of likely suspects. They have to.
In a radio interview, the current Stanford football coach said (paraphrasing), the bad news was that they had to recruit nationally, because the pool of qualifying talent was small, but the good news was that nearly all of those in whom they were interested were aware of Stanford and its exceptional qualities.
Finally something of import. If we can solve this problem all will be well.
For the record, he’s Barry J. Sanders, not Barry Sanders, Jr.
John Riggins ran a 9.6 second 100 yards in college at Kansas. He wasn’t slow.
Theoretically quicker than Florence Griffin-Joyner (10.46) whose record (10.49) has not been come close to since … since something
I’ve seen lots of track meets on TV, of course, but I’ve only attended – in my whole long life – only one track meet live. My father took me to see Dave Sime.
It was an indoor meet at the Washington DC National Guard Armory in the fifties. Some sports impresario must have created the whole thing. It was not a meeting of rival track teams. It was promoted on the fame of the individual participants. There were two major attractions as I remember – Sime and a pole vaulter who wanted to play Tarzan in the movies.
The building was too short for a full race. It was – as I remember – only 40 yards long. They ran on one side of the oval indoor track and finished going through some doors into an out of sight back room. Sime won but you couldn’t see the finish line. We took his victory on faith. It was over almost before it started. It was something like a six second race.
Sime was a star attraction but the pole vaulter had more showmanship. He had let his hair grow long and he milked each of his vaults for all it was worth. I think he emitted a Tarzan yell or two also. Alas he never did get to play Tarzan.
My memory may be deceiving me, but I remember the go-long specialist in Semi-Tough being Al “Abort” Goodwin, who struck me as a) obviously black and b) despite his hurdling background, clearly modeled on Bob Hayes, the great 100 meter sprinter. As for a white guy as a receiver, I remember the best buddy/foil/rival for Barbara Jane Bookman’s affections, a raw-boned cracker-type named Shake Tiller, being a flanker and not a go-long specialist like “Abort”. Tiller, bizarrely I thought, was played by Kris Kristofferson in the movie (I like KK, but he was wrong for the role), and the narrator was played by Burt Reynolds. I don’t think I’m confusing Semi-Tough with North Dallas Forty either.
OT: Vox has a story about Alison Lundergan Grimes running an anti-amnesty ad then hiding it: http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6968665/alison-lundergan-grimes-tv-ad-amnesty-immigration-mitch-mcconnell-kentucky-senate
Football and especially the NFL has become a photonegative of 1960. White guys only allowed at certain white guy positions and only if he’s clearly superior to any of the Black guys.
I have no earthly clue why so many people still watch the NFL …
I do not know of any pro offenses that have ever been predicated on the expectation of long runs. College may have been different at times, the Sooners of the 70′s perhaps. But when you run you grind out first downs for the most part.
So practically I would think the race of the back really doesn’t matter with what you are trying to do, particularly in the NFL now, which actively favors the passing game.
I read comments like this and I want to pound my head on my table. What makes smart people post something this dumb? No, no team predicates its offense on the expectation of regular long runs. But you still want all the long runs you can get, and if black RBs are better at producing them, then black RBs are going to be rationally favored by coaches and GMs.
The above is particularly frustrating because this by the same poster was so smart (Richard Sherman is 6'3" though, so you can make it at CB even nowadays at that height):
The hardest position for a white player is cornerback. This is one of the hardest positions to find a great player at. You pretty much have to be sub 4.5 in the forty even to be considered average at this position. Additionally you have to have “hips,” which is a nebulous term, but basically that a guy doesn’t slow down when changing direction. Additionally you have to have some height, the taller the better, but the position is so demanding that coaches will take what they can get if they have the other attributes.
Receivers can be tall and use it to their advantage. In the end corners have to react to the receiver, and practically this means that really tall corners are unknown. As far as I know their has never been a cornerback over 6’4,” and it is a real once in a decade oddity to see one play even briefly in the NFL. Some all time great NFL corners like Mel Blount (there is another I can’t remember about the same time) played at 6’3″ but when the NFL changed the bump and run coverage rules you didn’t see them any more.
If you can get a 6’2″ inch cornerback, who runs a 4.4 and has good “hips.” you are so very, very happy as a coach. Well odds are if he has good hands he would have been switched to wide receiver somewhere along the way, but coaches take what they can get.
Brutusale
Funny that there seems to be a trend toward more white receivers, but not running backs or DBs. Must be the infamous “hip flex” thing.
Is there such a trend, or do we just imagine it? Anyway, I think Sunbeam explained it. WRs can be straight burners, or they can have great moves, or great hands, or thrive on being covered by less adept defensive players (viz. Wes Welker). But a cornerback has got to be able to cover every kind of receiver.
Football and especially the NFL has become a photonegative of 1960. White guys only allowed at certain white guy positions and only if he’s clearly superior to any of the Black guys.
Do you really believe this bilge? I figured after Matt Jones and Toby Gerhart even the caste footballers would have given up.
White players in black positions seem be targeted more. That aside, it would be interesting to know if the white players are more likely to suffer brain damage from similar impacts. My feeling is they would be. All in all, there are quite good reasons for a gifted white player to think very carefully before trying for a traditionally black playing position.
Sime became a doctor. At that time becoming a doctor was not a much financial loss from becoming a football star which was not a very high-paying job back then.
Such move would be unthinkable now.
Played golf with Muster about two years ago. We both shot 78. Guy didn’t say anything all day long except “am I away?” I got the impression he might be illiterate or have a speech defect or something. Couldn’t be that he was just a snob, could it? By the way, he weighs about 225.
Joe Montana’s son didn’t work out that well in ND and graduated from Tulane.
Well Norte Dame is trying to ‘diversify’ its musical genre by inviting Snoop Dogg’s son to its football team.
And Franco Harris.
#1 - No helmets or padding - let them earn their millions.
#2 - ?
#2 – return to the 1975 rules.
Kind of like the deceptively smart Neil de Grasse Tyson?
No, McCaffrey was legitimately fast.
Who could forget Roger Carr (9.3 100 yd) WR for the 70′s great offensive Colts teams. “runaway Carr” was perhaps the fastest white guy in the nfl.
If he could have gotten onto the Steelers with Noll and Bradshaw instead of the Colts and Jones and Marchabroda and McCormack he would have been a Hall of Famer.
Remember all of Bradshaw's receivers were fairly slow.
The only other really fast WR in Carr's league was Issac Curtis of the Bengals.
Carr was another guy who was racially aware and knew that he wasn't respected because he was a "White boy". That is until he burned guys, and then it was understood.
The only way White athletes will ever go to the next level into the “black game” now is through some kind of Eugenics.
Or maybe its like the over-representation of Jews at Harvard. Jews, on average, have a higher mean IQ than Whites, and therefore the over-representation is entirely understandable. However, 16% of the White population (which is millions) has an IQ comparable to the Jewish mean. It then raises the point why then are Whites under-represented? Is it the narrative?
http://takimag.com/article/blackballed/#axzz3G3V1lkz5
Can’t imagine why any owner would hire a former player with no coaching experience as a head coach.
The owners are jock sniffers.
Maybe if Dickerson was 5" shorter.
Hmm, Stanford has junior at 5’10″. I assumed he was at least 6′ from that highlight clip.
I see Peyton getting involved in business and maybe politics, not coaching.
Max dates a hot women’s laxer at Duke.
#1 - No helmets or padding - let them earn their millions.
#2 - ?
#1. . . like rugby. If they don’t need them in that sport, they don’t need them in American football. When are they gonna figure out that the helmet causes more injury than it prevents? At least go back to leather, so that isn’t a bettering ram.
#2 Unify the college and pro rules. It absurd to make the fans keep two sets in their heads. And since big-time college has, over the decades, become the de facto farm system for the NFl, it’s even sillier to make the trainees play a different game than the one they’re preparing for. Those one-foot-in catches would be exciting NFL plays, like they are in college, if only they counted. And college has gotta quit stopping the clock on every first down. We don’t have all day.
#3 If the TV money for Thursday night games is too good to give back, then at least schedule two teams coming off a bye. That’s why the early season games have stunk. The teams haven’t practiced much (no more two-a-days, remember, and except for week three, the starters hardly play in pre-season), and it shows.
Rugby is underwhelming because the tackling is mostly grabbing and dragging rather than hitting and because it's pretty slow compared to football.
Aussie rules is more exciting than rugby because they speed up the game with kicking and launching of the ball.
Is “Lose Yourself” the best sports song ever?
And here I never thought I’d see Al “Abort” Goodwin mentioned anywhere! There’s still Randy Juan Llanez.
Funny that there seems to be a trend toward more white receivers, but not running backs or DBs. Must be the infamous “hip flex” thing.
Funny, too, that the two guys mentioned most as the greatest RBs in NFL history, Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, both retired with a lot left in the tank.
Best pure runner on Astroturf = Barry Sanders.
Best football player to play running back = Walter Payton.
Funny that there seems to be a trend toward more white receivers, but not running backs or DBs. Must be the infamous "hip flex" thing.
Funny, too, that the two guys mentioned most as the greatest RBs in NFL history, Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, both retired with a lot left in the tank.
Earl Campbell didn’t leave anything in the tank, even on a single play, and he can barely walk these days.
Max dates a hot women's laxer at Duke.
Supposedly Peyton Manning bought up a bunch of fast food restaurants in Colorado when he heard the state was legalizing marijuana and is raking in the money.
tl;dr Texas is the one place that refused to give NDT an affirmative action boost.
I could tell that simply by looking up his CV something like four or five years ago, he to0k 13 years (1993) after earning his bachelor’s degree from Harvard (1980) to earn his doctorate. He had only 13 scientific papers written and a lot of them were sprawling 20 author scientific papers, so clearly he wasn’t even a big contributor to that relative handful . I thought Carl Sagan was overblown in his reputation, and he was BTW, but by way of comparison to Tyson, Sagan was practically Robert Oppenheimer.
I have no earthly clue why so many people still watch the NFL ...
And I’m willing to bet that if you noted the race of running backs when you did statistical analysis you would find that if you eliminated runs over say 20 or 30 yards there is no statistical difference between white and black running backs.
I do not know of any pro offenses that have ever been predicated on the expectation of long runs. College may have been different at times, the Sooners of the 70′s perhaps. But when you run you grind out first downs for the most part.
So practically I would think the race of the back really doesn’t matter with what you are trying to do, particularly in the NFL now, which actively favors the passing game.
I read comments like this and I want to pound my head on my table. What makes smart people post something this dumb? No, no team predicates its offense on the expectation of regular long runs. But you still want all the long runs you can get, and if black RBs are better at producing them, then black RBs are going to be rationally favored by coaches and GMs.
The above is particularly frustrating because this by the same poster was so smart (Richard Sherman is 6’3″ though, so you can make it at CB even nowadays at that height):
The hardest position for a white player is cornerback. This is one of the hardest positions to find a great player at. You pretty much have to be sub 4.5 in the forty even to be considered average at this position. Additionally you have to have “hips,” which is a nebulous term, but basically that a guy doesn’t slow down when changing direction. Additionally you have to have some height, the taller the better, but the position is so demanding that coaches will take what they can get if they have the other attributes.
Receivers can be tall and use it to their advantage. In the end corners have to react to the receiver, and practically this means that really tall corners are unknown. As far as I know their has never been a cornerback over 6’4,” and it is a real once in a decade oddity to see one play even briefly in the NFL. Some all time great NFL corners like Mel Blount (there is another I can’t remember about the same time) played at 6’3″ but when the NFL changed the bump and run coverage rules you didn’t see them any more.
If you can get a 6’2″ inch cornerback, who runs a 4.4 and has good “hips.” you are so very, very happy as a coach. Well odds are if he has good hands he would have been switched to wide receiver somewhere along the way, but coaches take what they can get.
Brutusale
Funny that there seems to be a trend toward more white receivers, but not running backs or DBs. Must be the infamous “hip flex” thing.
Is there such a trend, or do we just imagine it? Anyway, I think Sunbeam explained it. WRs can be straight burners, or they can have great moves, or great hands, or thrive on being covered by less adept defensive players (viz. Wes Welker). But a cornerback has got to be able to cover every kind of receiver.
Football and especially the NFL has become a photonegative of 1960. White guys only allowed at certain white guy positions and only if he’s clearly superior to any of the Black guys.
Do you really believe this bilge? I figured after Matt Jones and Toby Gerhart even the caste footballers would have given up.
I do not know of any pro offenses that have ever been predicated on the expectation of long runs. College may have been different at times, the Sooners of the 70′s perhaps. But when you run you grind out first downs for the most part.
So practically I would think the race of the back really doesn’t matter with what you are trying to do, particularly in the NFL now, which actively favors the passing game.
I read comments like this and I want to pound my head on my table. What makes smart people post something this dumb? No, no team predicates its offense on the expectation of regular long runs. But you still want all the long runs you can get, and if black RBs are better at producing them, then black RBs are going to be rationally favored by coaches and GMs.
The above is particularly frustrating because this by the same poster was so smart (Richard Sherman is 6'3" though, so you can make it at CB even nowadays at that height):
The hardest position for a white player is cornerback. This is one of the hardest positions to find a great player at. You pretty much have to be sub 4.5 in the forty even to be considered average at this position. Additionally you have to have “hips,” which is a nebulous term, but basically that a guy doesn’t slow down when changing direction. Additionally you have to have some height, the taller the better, but the position is so demanding that coaches will take what they can get if they have the other attributes.
Receivers can be tall and use it to their advantage. In the end corners have to react to the receiver, and practically this means that really tall corners are unknown. As far as I know their has never been a cornerback over 6’4,” and it is a real once in a decade oddity to see one play even briefly in the NFL. Some all time great NFL corners like Mel Blount (there is another I can’t remember about the same time) played at 6’3″ but when the NFL changed the bump and run coverage rules you didn’t see them any more.
If you can get a 6’2″ inch cornerback, who runs a 4.4 and has good “hips.” you are so very, very happy as a coach. Well odds are if he has good hands he would have been switched to wide receiver somewhere along the way, but coaches take what they can get.
Brutusale
Funny that there seems to be a trend toward more white receivers, but not running backs or DBs. Must be the infamous “hip flex” thing.
Is there such a trend, or do we just imagine it? Anyway, I think Sunbeam explained it. WRs can be straight burners, or they can have great moves, or great hands, or thrive on being covered by less adept defensive players (viz. Wes Welker). But a cornerback has got to be able to cover every kind of receiver.
Football and especially the NFL has become a photonegative of 1960. White guys only allowed at certain white guy positions and only if he’s clearly superior to any of the Black guys.
Do you really believe this bilge? I figured after Matt Jones and Toby Gerhart even the caste footballers would have given up.
Three yards and a cloud of dust leaves you at 4th and one. Bring on the punting team. OJ Simpson helped revolutionize college football, and part of it was he could rip off so many 4 to 6 yard runs where white running backs were getting 3 to 5. It made a big difference in lower frequency of punts.
In 74 AFC Divisional playoffs, the Steelers held OJ to 48 yrds rushing.
Earl Campbell laid an egg in 78 AFC title game vs Steelers.
In 79 AFC title game, Greene, Greenwood, White, and Banazak held Campbell to 15yrds rushing.
15. For the entire game.
Dan Pastorini wasn't all that, and didn't know what to do in either game.
Football... is kind of a degenerate game. By that I mean it has become so specialized that you have to have certain physical attributes to play certain positions.
The hardest position for a white player is cornerback. This is one of the hardest positions to find a great player at. You pretty much have to be sub 4.5 in the forty even to be considered average at this position. Additionally you have to have "hips," which is a nebulous term, but basically that a guy doesn't slow down when changing direction. Additionally you have to have some height, the taller the better, but the position is so demanding that coaches will take what they can get if they have the other attributes.
Receivers can be tall and use it to their advantage. In the end corners have to react to the receiver, and practically this means that really tall corners are unknown. As far as I know their has never been a cornerback over 6'4," and it is a real once in a decade oddity to see one play even briefly in the NFL. Some all time great NFL corners like Mel Blount (there is another I can't remember about the same time) played at 6'3" but when the NFL changed the bump and run coverage rules you didn't see them any more.
If you can get a 6'2" inch cornerback, who runs a 4.4 and has good "hips." you are so very, very happy as a coach. Well odds are if he has good hands he would have been switched to wide receiver somewhere along the way, but coaches take what they can get.
Which brings me to a real statistical anomaly, Jason Sehorn. 6'2" 210 pounds, white, and an elite shutdown corner. There hasn't been another guy like this in ... well ever. Roger Wehrli for the Cardinals late 60's to early 80's is the only other guy like him I can think of, but he didn't have as much speed as Sehorn.
Now to get back to running backs. This position has changed. NFL teams just don't care to invest in a feature back anymore, or draft them highly, with Adrian Peterson a notable exception. When they do they usually get burned, like Trent Richardson.
That said, I think teams and fans overvalue the long run when it comes to running backs. This is a good area for stats wonks to go all psycho, but the mode for running backs is probably under a 4 yard run. (BTW I am talking about NFL here)
And I'm willing to bet that if you noted the race of running backs when you did statistical analysis you would find that if you eliminated runs over say 20 or 30 yards there is no statistical difference between white and black running backs.
I do not know of any pro offenses that have ever been predicated on the expectation of long runs. College may have been different at times, the Sooners of the 70's perhaps. But when you run you grind out first downs for the most part.
So practically I would think the race of the back really doesn't matter with what you are trying to do, particularly in the NFL now, which actively favors the passing game. Along with the fact that NFL defenses have totally conquered the running game, except when college running formations like the Wildcat and Spread (Tebow Broncos) are used. They just do not get the holes they got even n the 70's with modern NFL "conventional" running games.
One other thing. I am not convinced that blacks are better athletes than whites. I can tell you that paradoxically blacks (I am only familiar with American blacks from West Africa) cannot take heat.
They also get hurt more in my experience, which is counter to what I have seen stated by a number of people.
The perception problem is that American sports, particularly the spectator sports are heavily biased to valuing explosion and sheer speed. Endurance just doesn't factor into these at all for the most part. Strength is a little more complicated, but explosive strength as opposed to powerlifting strength is similar.
Anyway my 2 cents. As a curiousity there have been some really exceptional white athletes from a size speed standpoint. Ken Hall, Joe Don Looney. They were either head cases (Looney), or lacked any form of moves and cutting abilitey (Hall and Looney).
To expand on something else, you really could see more white receivers, but I really don't think white players are playing the game as much. Dave Logan, Kirk Gibson, you just don't see guys like this anymore, college or pro.
Jeremy Shockey had a freakish combination of size, speed, and receiving ability.
PatrickH, you need to read the book again. Goodwin was obviously white. Marvin "Shake" Tiller was far from a crazy redneck; Billy Clyde and Barbara Jane hooked up at the end because Shake ran off to travel the world to see the things he read about. The movie was for shit, but not because of KK or Burt Reynolds. Barbara Jane Bookman was supposed to be the perfect 10, sort of a sassy Kate Upton with brains. So they cast Jill Clayburgh?!
Steve from Detroit, his touchdown celebrations may be what I liked most about Sanders. Flip the ball to the official and head for the sideline, actions that said I've been to the end zone before, and I'll be going there again sometime real soon. It boggles the mind to think about what he'd have done with a real contender and didn't have to shoulder the entire load.
See this is the part where I have a belief that is counter to both keypusher and Steve Sailer.
It is more important to be fast for 10 yards and get a good jump than anything else when you play runnning back.
All these long runs? Those are what push yards per carry for backs past 4.0 yards.
4 to 6 yard runs aren’t really due to sprinter speed. In the end it takes time for a hole to develop and your blockers to get in position.
Dunno guess you could run a bunch of toss plays or reverses, those depend more on speed. But for basic runs up the middle or off tackle it just doesn’t matter. No matter what you do the hole isn’t going to develop in time for that to make a difference, unless you are doing the incredibly low percentage thing of reversing your field.
Where speed helps you is in the open field, outrunning defenders or hitting the corner.
Very seldom is a run shorter than say 20 yards due to a back’s speed. It is normally due to a defensive breakdown or the line produced a hole. With a zone blocking scheme it is becauset the line succeeded in blocking their rule, and the back had the vision to find the hole and hit it.
The advantage of speed is being able to outrun the very fast defenders that will try to run you down.
If you watch college and even pro ball you will often see quaterbacks who run around 4.7 forties get 10 to 20 yard gains, because there wasn’t a defender in the area they were running.
Look at Adrian Peterson, the best long run maker in recent years. He doesn’t break them every game.
Heck do a bar graph with the whole season. It’s just not as important as converting first downs in short yardage. And the plays that elite speed help with are just not that common.
Big plays are more the result of the passing game in the modern NFL.
Now keypusher feel free to think I don’t know what I am talking about. But I’m not going to believe you.
One of my favorite Barry Sanders moments was when he juked left in front of some Jets would be tackler and then darted off to his right and the Jets defender bought the feint so hard that he just fell to that side like a statue.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Riggins was the Kansas state 100 yard dash champion. He was definitely fleet of foot.
I don’t know what he ran in college I do know when he was with the Redskins they used him to beat up the defense, not try and juke and twist and turn to run for touchdowns but to power right over defenders for 10 yard gains. Like Czonka, if Riggins could go around a defender he didn’t . He’d rather run over a defender than not. Redskins liked it that way too because some DB after a few attempts at tackling Riggins wasn’t that good on pass coverage for the rest of the game.
#2 Unify the college and pro rules. It absurd to make the fans keep two sets in their heads. And since big-time college has, over the decades, become the de facto farm system for the NFl, it's even sillier to make the trainees play a different game than the one they're preparing for. Those one-foot-in catches would be exciting NFL plays, like they are in college, if only they counted. And college has gotta quit stopping the clock on every first down. We don't have all day.
#3 If the TV money for Thursday night games is too good to give back, then at least schedule two teams coming off a bye. That's why the early season games have stunk. The teams haven't practiced much (no more two-a-days, remember, and except for week three, the starters hardly play in pre-season), and it shows.
Right, but that’s what makes football, football: the hitting, launching, battering, etc.
Rugby is underwhelming because the tackling is mostly grabbing and dragging rather than hitting and because it’s pretty slow compared to football.
Aussie rules is more exciting than rugby because they speed up the game with kicking and launching of the ball.
tl;dr Texas is the one place that refused to give NDT an affirmative action boost.
For some reason, commentators here get touchy when you bring up the notion that Neil Tyson probably isn’t that bright.
It is more important to be fast for 10 yards and get a good jump than anything else when you play runnning back.
All these long runs? Those are what push yards per carry for backs past 4.0 yards.
4 to 6 yard runs aren't really due to sprinter speed. In the end it takes time for a hole to develop and your blockers to get in position.
Dunno guess you could run a bunch of toss plays or reverses, those depend more on speed. But for basic runs up the middle or off tackle it just doesn't matter. No matter what you do the hole isn't going to develop in time for that to make a difference, unless you are doing the incredibly low percentage thing of reversing your field.
Where speed helps you is in the open field, outrunning defenders or hitting the corner.
Very seldom is a run shorter than say 20 yards due to a back's speed. It is normally due to a defensive breakdown or the line produced a hole. With a zone blocking scheme it is becauset the line succeeded in blocking their rule, and the back had the vision to find the hole and hit it.
The advantage of speed is being able to outrun the very fast defenders that will try to run you down.
If you watch college and even pro ball you will often see quaterbacks who run around 4.7 forties get 10 to 20 yard gains, because there wasn't a defender in the area they were running.
Look at Adrian Peterson, the best long run maker in recent years. He doesn't break them every game.
Heck do a bar graph with the whole season. It's just not as important as converting first downs in short yardage. And the plays that elite speed help with are just not that common.
Big plays are more the result of the passing game in the modern NFL.
Now keypusher feel free to think I don't know what I am talking about. But I'm not going to believe you.
Nah, it’s the extra quick cut by black running backs that turns three yards and a cloud of dust into five yards. And that makes all the difference in the world in how long a drive you can routinely put together. The 60 yard runs are just icing on the cake.
There were white stars famous for long runs, such as Red Grange.
The big racial difference is that among whites speed and power tend to negatively correlated, so you had offenses built around halfbacks and fullbacks (e.g., the Green Bay Packers had Paul Hornung for the fun stuff and Jim Taylor for the bulldozer stuff). Jim Brown opened fans eyes to the idea of speed and power being less negatively correlated in blacks, then O.J. got enormous amounts of publicity from 1967 onward. That led to the era of the tailback, where you just need one star to do most of the carrying of the ball: USC became Tailback U. because it’s philosophy was you don’t recruit running back role players, you recruit a potential superstar and give him the ball up to 51 times per game (the late Ricky Bell).
Ethnic-cleansing blah blah blah, but must there be so much ethnic-staining?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/opinion/what-i-saw-as-an-nfl-ball-boy.html?_r=0
“One of my jobs was sorting through postgame laundry. Cleaner uniforms would be set aside for football card companies to purchase for their line of “game-used inserts.” Dirty uniforms, meanwhile, like all the girdles filled with blood and feces because some hits are savage enough to overpower the central nervous system, I’d put in a special bin for disposal.”
Ew.
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2014/10/sayreville_high_school_football_hazing_parent_reveals_sexual_nature_of_locker_room_ritual_exclusive.htmlCf. also the Penn State locker rooms.
Yes, and he is reportedly worth over $100 million. Yet he still demands a salary of $19 million per year, leaving the Broncos small margin to surround him with better talent. One would think an intelligent guy like Manning would rather take a reduced salary and win another Super Bowl or two which would solidify his reputation among the greatest ever. Instead he just keeps adding to his money pile and his reputation of not being good in the clutch grows.
"One of my jobs was sorting through postgame laundry. Cleaner uniforms would be set aside for football card companies to purchase for their line of “game-used inserts.” Dirty uniforms, meanwhile, like all the girdles filled with blood and feces because some hits are savage enough to overpower the central nervous system, I’d put in a special bin for disposal."
Ew.
Hey, that’s not as bad as what happens off the gridiron and in the locker rooms:
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2014/10/sayreville_high_school_football_hazing_parent_reveals_sexual_nature_of_locker_room_ritual_exclusive.html
Cf. also the Penn State locker rooms.
All Pro TE Russ Francis of the Patriots and 49ers was 6’6″, 245 lbs. and ran the 40 in 4.6. He also blocked as well as any pass-catching TE. He was also the American high school record holder in the javelin, and his record held up for 18 years. Howard Cosell called Francis All World.
PatrickH, you need to read the book again. Goodwin was obviously white. Marvin “Shake” Tiller was far from a crazy redneck; Billy Clyde and Barbara Jane hooked up at the end because Shake ran off to travel the world to see the things he read about. The movie was for shit, but not because of KK or Burt Reynolds. Barbara Jane Bookman was supposed to be the perfect 10, sort of a sassy Kate Upton with brains. So they cast Jill Clayburgh?!
Steve from Detroit, his touchdown celebrations may be what I liked most about Sanders. Flip the ball to the official and head for the sideline, actions that said I’ve been to the end zone before, and I’ll be going there again sometime real soon. It boggles the mind to think about what he’d have done with a real contender and didn’t have to shoulder the entire load.
Not that she "settled" for Billy Clyde, it was just that Shake was her true love...the one that got away.
Now keypusher feel free to think I don’t know what I am talking about.
It’s not that you don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s that your reasoning is so appallingly bad.
You say that there would be no difference between average YPC if we ignored all long runs.
if you noted the race of running backs when you did statistical analysis you would find that if you eliminated runs over say 20 or 30 yards there is no statistical difference between white and black running backs.
I don’t believe that, for reasons stated by our host, but let’s pretend it’s true. The necessary implication is that there IS a statistical difference in favor of black RBs if you count runs over 20-3o yards. It further follows that black RBs are better than white RBs: equally effective on short runs, more likely to break off long ones.
But instead of embracing this obvious conclusion, you try to argue that the black advantage doesn’t matter because long runs are rare and passing is more important in the modern NFL. Well, so what? If runner A and Runner B are identical for 298 carries in the season, but A breaks off two long runs on his 299th and 300th carry while B has two more 4-yard rushes, A is better. Period.
I’ve watched a lot of football at all levels from 9 year olds playing flag football in the park to the Super Bowl. Black ball carriers are more likely to make the right first cut to hit the open hole at the line of scrimmage than white ball carriers.
No love for Peyton Hillis, the best RB of 2010? That wasn’t that long ago, injuries and the anti-white bias against RB have pushed him to the bench but still…..
Why is it that Riggins, Seahorn, Hillis, etc. are such super duper never to be duplicated freaks, that no other white person can ever come close to? Answer: they weren’t. Just a few guys that sneaked through the cracks because of sympathetic coaches, fortunate injuries to guys in front of them, and other odd twists of fate.
Every white athlete that sneaks into a “non-white” position can tell you about the discrimination they faced every step of the way. How is that dismissed on a discussion board that goes on about the thought police and their power to control the dialogue on discussions of IQ and race? Unfair racial pandering goes on in every other endeavor in western society except on the football field. Right.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/leaders.htm
Get a clue.
Why is it that Riggins, Seahorn, Hillis, etc. are such super duper never to be duplicated freaks, that no other white person can ever come close to? Answer: they weren't. Just a few guys that sneaked through the cracks because of sympathetic coaches, fortunate injuries to guys in front of them, and other odd twists of fate.
Every white athlete that sneaks into a "non-white" position can tell you about the discrimination they faced every step of the way. How is that dismissed on a discussion board that goes on about the thought police and their power to control the dialogue on discussions of IQ and race? Unfair racial pandering goes on in every other endeavor in western society except on the football field. Right.
Right, that 1998 Sports Illustrated article on Ed McCaffrey documents about a dozen examples of McCaffrey being discriminated against due to racial bigotry. If you took that article and changed it to a black computer science wizard in Silicon Valley, it would be a national crisis.
Anyway McCaffrey's the winner. 90% of the black guys who get out of the NFL after their contracts are up will end up on the ashheap, with brain damage and no money.
PatrickH, you need to read the book again. Goodwin was obviously white. Marvin "Shake" Tiller was far from a crazy redneck; Billy Clyde and Barbara Jane hooked up at the end because Shake ran off to travel the world to see the things he read about. The movie was for shit, but not because of KK or Burt Reynolds. Barbara Jane Bookman was supposed to be the perfect 10, sort of a sassy Kate Upton with brains. So they cast Jill Clayburgh?!
Steve from Detroit, his touchdown celebrations may be what I liked most about Sanders. Flip the ball to the official and head for the sideline, actions that said I've been to the end zone before, and I'll be going there again sometime real soon. It boggles the mind to think about what he'd have done with a real contender and didn't have to shoulder the entire load.
Well, in my defense, I did read it in high school about 40 years ago. I’m puzzled, I admit, about Al Goodwin being obviously white. He struck me as obviously black. But of course I could simply be wrong. As for Shake Tiller being a redneck type: I was referring to the sense I got of him being raw-boned, lean, intense, that almost lupine look you see on some guys from that world. I didn’t mean he was either stupid or crude. As for his enlightenment (so to speak) from the teachings of the est leader character, I never got the impression that was because Shake was smart or educated, but simply that he was restless, unhappy, in search of something. By the end of the novel, if I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong!) he was off “walking the earth”, still restless, still looking. I remember the novel having a subtle subtext that Barbara Jane really loved Shake but that he was off in his own world and she knew she couldn’t follow him there or drag him back to earth from out of it, and so settled for the man who loved her in a straightforward way and was pretty much the same kind of person she was.
Not that she “settled” for Billy Clyde, it was just that Shake was her true love…the one that got away.
http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2014/10/sayreville_high_school_football_hazing_parent_reveals_sexual_nature_of_locker_room_ritual_exclusive.htmlCf. also the Penn State locker rooms.
It’s been all in the news. Wonder if there is a racial angle?
No SI article today would report on anti-white bigotry.
Anyway McCaffrey’s the winner. 90% of the black guys who get out of the NFL after their contracts are up will end up on the ashheap, with brain damage and no money.
I saw Riggins play at Kansas and he was close to 9.6. On a film of a long run I saw, he looked like Bo Jackson. In Namth’s big game against the Colts in 1972, Riggins took a short pass and ran away from a CB for a long TD. Riggins injured a knee late in the 1972 season and the ither knee in 1977. Even at age 33 in Super Bowl XVII, Riggins had enough of a burst to make a 40-plus yard TD run, the key play of the game.
IN SI after the above Super Bowl Paul Zimmerman wrote that the scouting report on Riggins out of Kansas called him a “white Jimmy Brown.”
IN SI after the above Super Bowl Paul Zimmerman wrote that the scouting report on Riggins out of Kansas called him a "white Jimmy Brown."
I remember when Riggins took a year off from the NFL to heal. I assumed he was just retiring, but he came back and dominated.
On Joe Namath's Jets of 1971-72, even Brown himself wouldn't have set any rushing records. I would bet a good sum of money, Riggins was faster in straight ahead speed than Franco Harris, certainly before his first knee injury and probably after.
Riggins held out in 1973 and didn't do much that year and was injured part of 1974. He had a history of injuries and holdouts, "retiring" in 1980 after two pretty good years. Sam Deluca, an ex-Jet player who was a TV analyst, felt Riggins didn't always play with full intensity.
Riggins was Super Bowl MVP at age 33. At that age, O.J. Simpson and Eric Dickerson were either out of the league or over the hill.
Riggins had a strange career to say the least. The full scouting report referenced by Dr. Z I mentioned above was that coming out of Kansas in 1971, Riggins was a 225-230 pound back with speed and finesse, good hand, didn’t block much. In other words, a white Jimmy Brown.
On Joe Namath’s Jets of 1971-72, even Brown himself wouldn’t have set any rushing records. I would bet a good sum of money, Riggins was faster in straight ahead speed than Franco Harris, certainly before his first knee injury and probably after.
Riggins held out in 1973 and didn’t do much that year and was injured part of 1974. He had a history of injuries and holdouts, “retiring” in 1980 after two pretty good years. Sam Deluca, an ex-Jet player who was a TV analyst, felt Riggins didn’t always play with full intensity.
Riggins was Super Bowl MVP at age 33. At that age, O.J. Simpson and Eric Dickerson were either out of the league or over the hill.
On Joe Namath's Jets of 1971-72, even Brown himself wouldn't have set any rushing records. I would bet a good sum of money, Riggins was faster in straight ahead speed than Franco Harris, certainly before his first knee injury and probably after.
Riggins held out in 1973 and didn't do much that year and was injured part of 1974. He had a history of injuries and holdouts, "retiring" in 1980 after two pretty good years. Sam Deluca, an ex-Jet player who was a TV analyst, felt Riggins didn't always play with full intensity.
Riggins was Super Bowl MVP at age 33. At that age, O.J. Simpson and Eric Dickerson were either out of the league or over the hill.
There’s the John Riggins and Sandra Day O’Connor story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2012/10/29/john-riggins-and-loosen-up-sandy/
I bet they keep track of likely suspects. They have to.
@ Mike,
I liked your post on September 22 about debt and immigration.
Have you read War Cycles – Peace Cycles, by Richard Kelly Hoskins?
I did not read the book but I did read interviews with the author, and any summary I can find. It sounds very similar to what you’re suggesting.
From what I gather, it forecasts a dark future for America, namely a third world invasion and collapse.
Yep, Carr was a rocket and he was 6’3″ 190+. But he was a temperamental country boy who got stuck with horrible old fashioned dumb head coaches.
If he could have gotten onto the Steelers with Noll and Bradshaw instead of the Colts and Jones and Marchabroda and McCormack he would have been a Hall of Famer.
Remember all of Bradshaw’s receivers were fairly slow.
The only other really fast WR in Carr’s league was Issac Curtis of the Bengals.
Carr was another guy who was racially aware and knew that he wasn’t respected because he was a “White boy”. That is until he burned guys, and then it was understood.
Funny that there seems to be a trend toward more white receivers, but not running backs or DBs. Must be the infamous "hip flex" thing.
Funny, too, that the two guys mentioned most as the greatest RBs in NFL history, Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, both retired with a lot left in the tank.
Best pure runner on grass = Gale Sayers
Best pure runner on Astroturf = Barry Sanders.
Best football player to play running back = Walter Payton.
“This is tracksuit-and-trainers Britain, tattoo-parlour Britain, all-our-yesterdays Britain.”
Of course tracksuit-and-trainers and tattoo-parlours are very much NOT all-our-yesterdays Britain, but all our todays (I did jury service five years back and of the hundred-odd people in the selection room, I’d reckon more than a third had visible tats). He’s saying “look at these low-class losers – do you want to identify with them?“.
Some NFL running backs are really good at running with elusiveness, using moves, vision, fakes, exploding out of a cut, etc. Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders are probably the gold standard at making tacklers miss. Marshall Faulk, Tony Dorsett, Walter Payton, and Chuck Foreman were also outstanding at running elusively.
As for white running backs who excelled in the open field I can only think of Hugh McIlhenny and Dickie Post.
Why is it that Riggins, Seahorn, Hillis, etc. are such super duper never to be duplicated freaks, that no other white person can ever come close to? Answer: they weren't. Just a few guys that sneaked through the cracks because of sympathetic coaches, fortunate injuries to guys in front of them, and other odd twists of fate.
Every white athlete that sneaks into a "non-white" position can tell you about the discrimination they faced every step of the way. How is that dismissed on a discussion board that goes on about the thought police and their power to control the dialogue on discussions of IQ and race? Unfair racial pandering goes on in every other endeavor in western society except on the football field. Right.
Peyton Hillis wasn’t even in the top 10 in rushing in 2010. RBs like Peyton Hillis are a dime a dozen in the NFL.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/leaders.htm
Get a clue.
Next time, keypusher, you might want to get a clue before you tell someone to get a clue.
You’re right, of course, but unless the bigotry actually kept the guy from getting a chance to ply his trade, so what? As far as I can tell, the anti-white prejudice never kept McCaffery off the field.
Also, just to snuff out this nonsense:
Why is it that Riggins, Seahorn, Hillis, etc. are such super duper never to be duplicated freaks, that no other white person can ever come close to?
Yes, Riggins was amazing. Even after his knee injuries cost him a lot of speed, he was still a great RB (though he was never the best in the league). But the other two are “super duper…freaks” only in your imagination.
Hillis, as noted, is mediocre. As for Sehorn:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/rough-justice-for-an-overrated-pretty-boy/4858/
While Hillis has had only one good year (he did pretty well his first two years in Denver in limited play), "thinking people" considered a white RB gaining 1177 yards rushing in the NFL a physical impossibility.
I've seen it written that no white RB could even make an NFL roster.
I agree with you about Riggins. He never was the best in the league in a specific year, though great when it counted in the 1982 playoffs and for his total career.
So I see you agree with me. They weren't particularly special as you have gone through pains to point out. Then there must be other white guys similarly talented and almost none of them get a chance. So we agree, it's the system. Thanks for your help in proving my point. High five!!
OJ didn’t do much in NFL during postseason when it counted the most.
In 74 AFC Divisional playoffs, the Steelers held OJ to 48 yrds rushing.
Earl Campbell laid an egg in 78 AFC title game vs Steelers.
In 79 AFC title game, Greene, Greenwood, White, and Banazak held Campbell to 15yrds rushing.
15. For the entire game.
Dan Pastorini wasn’t all that, and didn’t know what to do in either game.
A question about this prominent athletic family with Stanford legacies, are they special admits or are they pretty good in the classroom? Athleticism combined with right side of bell curve?
Christian’s mother attended Stanford around the same time as famed US Women’s National Team member Julie Foudy. Foudy was pre-med at the time. Wonder if Christian’s mother tried out for the national team?
Speaking of Stanford athletics, it’s become quite the women’s soccer powerhouse and is beginning to threaten UNC’s dominance just a bit.
Their new goalkeeper, Janet Campbell was the top HS recruit and is considered one of the top women’s soccer players in the NCAA. At 17 she was invited to the WNT so they’ve got their eye on her for the future. She’ll probably be on the National Team roster for 16 Olympics but certainly by ’19 WC.
Riggins would have been even better if he didn’t drink so much and was in better in shape during his career.
Good posts about Riggins.
I watched a highlight film of that 1972 Jets-Colts game a while back and Riggins was flying on that touchdown run. The game also featured the Colt’s Rick Volk chasing after small and fast (Eddie Bell) and large and fast (Richard Caster) black receivers.
It would be interesting to review the Opening Day NFL player rosters circa 1970 on and trace the emergence of large, fast black receivers (Richard Caster, Tony Hill, Al Toon, Kellen Winslow, Michael Irvin etc.,) with the disappearance of smaller, slower white defensive backs (Cliff Harris, Rick Volk, Charlie Waters, Jackie Wilson, Dick LeBeau etc.,)
Part of it might be the changes in how defensive backs could cover receivers. I think it was easier to stop fast guys int the old days of bump and run coverage and hammering receivers at the line. Plus all the stuff Jack Tatum and George Atkinson did to them if they dared catching a ball over the middle.
Also I am not all knowing about the world of teenagers, but they don't seem to be interested in sports as much as my generation. That is just my take on it.
I wonder what the numbers on participation in high school sports are like by ethnicity now? California for example circa 1970 versus now? Demographics have changed, but even adjusted I'd suspect they have dropped.
I watched a highlight film of that 1972 Jets-Colts game a while back and Riggins was flying on that touchdown run. The game also featured the Colt’s Rick Volk chasing after small and fast (Eddie Bell) and large and fast (Richard Caster) black receivers.
It would be interesting to review the Opening Day NFL player rosters circa 1970 on and trace the emergence of large, fast black receivers (Richard Caster, Tony Hill, Al Toon, Kellen Winslow, Michael Irvin etc.,) with the disappearance of smaller, slower white defensive backs (Cliff Harris, Rick Volk, Charlie Waters, Jackie Wilson, Dick LeBeau etc.,)
“It would be interesting to review the Opening Day NFL player rosters circa 1970 on and trace the emergence of large, fast black receivers (Richard Caster, Tony Hill, Al Toon, Kellen Winslow, Michael Irvin etc.,) with the disappearance of smaller, slower white defensive backs (Cliff Harris, Rick Volk, Charlie Waters, Jackie Wilson, Dick LeBeau etc.,)”
Part of it might be the changes in how defensive backs could cover receivers. I think it was easier to stop fast guys int the old days of bump and run coverage and hammering receivers at the line. Plus all the stuff Jack Tatum and George Atkinson did to them if they dared catching a ball over the middle.
Also I am not all knowing about the world of teenagers, but they don’t seem to be interested in sports as much as my generation. That is just my take on it.
I wonder what the numbers on participation in high school sports are like by ethnicity now? California for example circa 1970 versus now? Demographics have changed, but even adjusted I’d suspect they have dropped.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/leaders.htm
Get a clue.
Hillis wasn’t in the top 10 in rushing yards, but he was 6th in yards from scrimmage, a stat given a lot of weight in the modern era. See Roger Craig and Marshall Faulk..
Why is it that Riggins, Seahorn, Hillis, etc. are such super duper never to be duplicated freaks, that no other white person can ever come close to?
Yes, Riggins was amazing. Even after his knee injuries cost him a lot of speed, he was still a great RB (though he was never the best in the league). But the other two are "super duper...freaks" only in your imagination.
Hillis, as noted, is mediocre. As for Sehorn:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/rough-justice-for-an-overrated-pretty-boy/4858/
I can’t tell you how many times I would read “no white RB will ever gain 1000 yards in the NFL again.” A specific example is a 1990 book, “The Pro Football Chronicle (page 246),” which stated that Craig James was the last white thousand yard runner.
While Hillis has had only one good year (he did pretty well his first two years in Denver in limited play), “thinking people” considered a white RB gaining 1177 yards rushing in the NFL a physical impossibility.
I’ve seen it written that no white RB could even make an NFL roster.
I agree with you about Riggins. He never was the best in the league in a specific year, though great when it counted in the 1982 playoffs and for his total career.
Why is it that Riggins, Seahorn, Hillis, etc. are such super duper never to be duplicated freaks, that no other white person can ever come close to?
Yes, Riggins was amazing. Even after his knee injuries cost him a lot of speed, he was still a great RB (though he was never the best in the league). But the other two are "super duper...freaks" only in your imagination.
Hillis, as noted, is mediocre. As for Sehorn:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/rough-justice-for-an-overrated-pretty-boy/4858/
I meant that guys like Riggins, Hillis, Seahorn, are super duper freaks for white guys. They are the only ones who really have had much of a chance to play the forbidden positions for the last 30 years so they must be something special to compete with your precious black gods right? If not, if they are just bums like you say, then why aren’t there more white bums that get a chance like they did? You can’t have it both ways keypusher, either they were super special white guys as the only ones that have excelled or they are not particularly special and they succeeded in spite of the system. Which is it?
So I see you agree with me. They weren’t particularly special as you have gone through pains to point out. Then there must be other white guys similarly talented and almost none of them get a chance. So we agree, it’s the system. Thanks for your help in proving my point. High five!!
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/leaders.htm
Get a clue.
Ok genius, Hillis was voted to the probowl and voted on the Madden cover. Why? He played for the one of the worst teams in the NFL and made the team watchable. He didn’t even have the starting role until week 3. Still put up almost 1200 yards and 13 tds anyway as well as being an outstanding receiver with 61 receptions and another 477 yards. He was clearly one of the best if not the best RB in the game in 2010. A dime a dozen? Hah. Cleveland hasn’t have a season like that since. You have to wonder why Trent Richardson, Hillis replacement, was treated as some sort of super star for putting up lesser numbers while Hillis continues to ride the pine. Hillis’ career yards per carry is nearly a yard more than Richardson’s.
Next time, keypusher, you might want to get a clue before you tell someone to get a clue.