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Kate Steinle Killer Found Not Guilty of Murder, Not Guilty of Manslaughter, and Not Guilty of Assault with a Firearm
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From the NYT:

Undocumented Immigrant Acquitted in Killing of Kate Steinle

He’s undocumented and an immigrant, that makes him holy. Haven’t you been paying attention to the news?

By MATT STEVENS, THOMAS FULLER and CAITLIN DICKERSON NOV. 30, 2017

An undocumented Mexican immigrant was acquitted of murder and manslaughter charges on Thursday in the killing of Kathryn Steinle, whose death while out walking on a San Francisco pier became a touchstone in the national debate over immigration fueled by Donald J. Trump.

The man, Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, 45, who was also found not guilty of assault with a firearm, was convicted only of being a felon in possession of a firearm. …

So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge. The jury specifically cleared the killer not just of murder but of two lesser charges.

By any rational standard the involuntary manslaughter charge was a slam dunk (the killer told the cops that he was shooting at a “sea lion” or a “black fish”), while the assault with a firearm charge …

If you go to a tourist attraction in San Francisco and try to shoot a sea lion and kill a pedestrian, well, good luck getting off with mere possession of a gun. Unless you are an illegal alien felon and the jury is in the throes of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Ms. Steinle, known as Kate, a 32-year-old medical equipment saleswoman, was walking along Pier 14 in San Francisco when she was struck by a bullet and collapsed into her father’s arms. Mr. Garcia Zarate acknowledged firing the weapon, but said it was an accident.

Mr. Garcia Zarate had been homeless at the time of the shooting and had multiple felony convictions and five prior deportations to Mexico.

Didn’t somebody say, “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best”?

He had been set free from jail only months before the shooting, in defiance of requests by federal immigration authorities, who had asked that he be held longer so he could be deported again.

That’ll show Trump! Who cares about some white person getting gunned down at a tourist attraction when the important thing is the triggerman was undocumented?

From commenter Auntie Analog:

If You’re Going To San Francisco Wear Some Armor When You’re There

If you’re going to San Francisco
Be sure to wear your armor and beware
If you’re going to San Francisco
Foreign felons get away with murder there

Aliens who come to San Francisco
juries will be your love-in there
In the streets of San Francisco
Kate was murdered, the jury did not care

All across the nation, endless foreign invasion
People in motion
Endless foreign invasion, lawless exoneration
People in motion, justice dead by implosion

For those who come to San Francisco
Be sure to wear your armor and beware
Justice ain’t done in San Francisco
Kate Steinle died and the jury did not care

Alien felons, San Francisco
Juries are your love-in there.

In other news, Pablo “They” Gomez demanded to have their murder trial moved from Berkeley to San Francisco. “I killed an attractive young white woman at random too, so if I don’t get off, that would be, like, discrimination, which is racist.”

 
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  1. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Will he at least be deported? Or did he get acquitted of that too?

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  2. Sanctuary city = refuge for rootless, criminal psychopaths.

    And in America, he is entitled to a trial before a jury of his peers.

    What could possibly go wrong?

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  3. The good news is that he plans to get OJ to team up with him to find the real killer.

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    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @SMK
    The flamboyant, handsome white "Hispanic" lawyer who defended and freed his low-IQ, nonwhite "Hispanic" brother went on and on and on about the "reasonable doubt standard" when, given the facts, the "reasonable doubt standard" was utterly irrelevant in this case. The defendant was obviously "not guilty" of either first-degree or second-degree murder as defined under the law but, just as obviously, he was guilty of involuntary manslaughter, beyond any doubt -just as O.J. was guilty beyond any doubt of cutting off his ex-wife's head and torturing Ron Goldman to death. So the jury engaged in an act of nullification, as did the O.J. jury, and who knows how many juries before and since, freeing black and "Latino" criminals, nearly all of whom would go on t commit more violent felonies.
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  4. Chrisj says:

    The first job of government is to be the guarantor of personal security. If government won’t do this people will protect, and avenge, themselves. It is stunning that liberals are so stupid they don’t understand this and don’t understand the consequences of shrugging off murder. They raise the ante every day.

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  5. eah says:

    It was all just one big unfortunate accident, including the fact he was on the street in the first place — if you’re looking for “depravity”, SF’s sanctuary policy also qualifies.

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    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/contentmancy/status/936411261847441408
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Woods is right. This will shift even more of the middle to support of a practical immigration policy.
    , @Eagle Eye
    The back story is that San Francisco had REQUESTED that the Obama-era Feds transfer Zarate to SF custody on an ancient warrant for dope peddling (!)

    The dope warrant was then later dismissed, but SF refused to return Zarate to Fed custody under its "sanctuary" policy.

    Most likely, SF officials were paid by local gangs to request transfer of custody from the Feds as an end-run to save Zarate from yet another deportation and/or federal sentence.

    Also, there is likely more to the Steinle murder itself than meets the eye. Either it was a targeted killing for some reason, or the murder of a young woman from out of town was commissioned as part of a shake-down of the city and/or local merchants dependent on local tourism.

    Journalists were specially allowed to interview Zarate in jail where he told them that he had been trying to shoot sea lions (which in itself is, of course, a serious federal offense). Evidently, the brazen misdirection worked.

    , @Thea
    If Rotterham didn't wake white men up one measly killing won't either.

    They'll go back to slumber from TV and high fructose corn syrup by noon.
    , @SMK
    Not so, James Woods. Nothing will change, just as the O.J. verdict changed nothing. Fundamentally, there have been no positive ramifications. Generally, things are even worse today. And the future will be horrific in it's anarcho-tyranny as blacks and "Latinos" will be virtually free to murder and rape and rob and assault whites and whites who are sentenced to jails and prisons will be terrorized and brutalized and frequently murdered by blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians.

    Crime and the criminal justice: the ultimate horror of white dispossession And envision what life will be like for whites, those who aren't rich and affluent, in 20 and 30 and 40 years, when whites are a minority and nonwhites, overwhelmingly blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians, and their white enablers, apologists, and sycophants, gentile and Jewish, "Hispanic" and non-"Hispanic," control everything, including the criminal justice system.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. eah says:
    @eah
    It was all just one big unfortunate accident, including the fact he was on the street in the first place -- if you're looking for "depravity", SF's sanctuary policy also qualifies.

    https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/936404828040806401

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    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/westland_will/status/936434541626978304
    , @Pat Casey
    Not me. That's kinda weird.
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  7. Hail says: • Website

    Has the gunman simply been released?

    Given legal status on humanitarian grounds, perhaps?

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    • Replies: @27 year old

    Has the gunman simply been released?

    Given legal status on humanitarian grounds, perhaps?

     

    Let's hope so
    , @Corn
    I hope to hell he is being deported but this is California we’re talking about. His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.
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  8. Vinay says:

    “So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge.”

    That didn’t happen. Zimmerman was acquitted of manslaughter as well. The prosecution even tried to throw in a last-minute charge of endangering a minor or something like that.

    Besides, in Zimmerman’s case, assault with a firearm etc. would have been pointless since the instructions specifically mention that self-defense is a defense against ALL those charges.

    Strange how far misinformation spreads,

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    • Replies: @Krastos the Gluemaker
    If Zimmerman had only been charged with manslaughter from the start the prosecution would have had to present the case differently in the first place. With the way the court case went it's obvious in a procedural sense that a jury should not accept the prosecution in effect contradicting themselves and their own narrative. Their simple problem was they couldn't prove murder, since the only way they really could was intent, and with the circumstances (Trayvon dead, no other relevant witnesses to "intent") Zimmerman was not going to incriminate himself. Just like with OJ or something, the fact that the prosecution was incompetent or corrupt and influenced by politics, or that the media spouted disturbing propaganda, doesn't change the actual facts of the case.

    This Kate Steinle result is also outrageous but it seems like nothing will ever convince insane wannabe cowboy vigilantes that we don't live in a cowboy-videogame world. Dueling is not legal; anytime strangers get into a conflict or fistfight or anything in a public place should not mean, in a moral society, that any of them can then start killing. The countless thousands of incidents where strangers get into a fistfight and somene kills someone should all be treated as manslaughter at the least, even though no random low-profile case appears in the national MSM. People shouldn't be shooting guns off into the air, public places, etc like Yosemite Sam. Wannabe cowboys all across American fantasize in a mentally ill way about obtaining their "right to kill" randomly so it's not surprising this lack of respect for human life bleeds over into unintended consequences.

    I don't think even alt-right gun nuts actually want to live in a world where the next Ta-Nehisis Coates who thinks his kid bumped into someone on an escalator and happens to otherwise be legally carrying a weapon at the time decides he can open fire on a bunch of people in "self-defense."

    This story is just another datapoint in a long long stream of famous incidents and weird American public perception of homicide and manslaughter. Note how terrible the media and politics are about vehicular manslaughter all the time too; thousands of incidents occur every year with relatively light punishment for drunk drivers for instance, except when one case out of thousands that gets reported on by the media (say, affluenza kid) it distorts public perception.

    Much more broadly, as often mentioned by criminal reform folks, for decades the American justice system just hasn't been built to try cases; huge proportions of all the actual violent criminals take plea deals/never see a jury, and the pressure by the public and media on anything that actually goes to trial thus produces weird results.
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  9. Yolanda Saldivar, the convicted murderer of Selena Quintanilla, also used the “gun had a mind of its own” defense, though the Texas jury didn’t fall for it.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1995-10-18/news/mn-58404_1_yolanda-saldivar

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  10. Thomas says:

    I said these jurors might have cast the first twelve votes to re-elect Trump, but I guess we’ll see.

    I’m surprised that involuntary manslaughter lost out too. I’m guessing the jury figured maybe this complicated gun lost by a federal agent winding up in the hands of this poor, dumb, harmless illegal meant he couldn’t be responsible for anything. The defense hammered hard on a theory that the gun (a SIG Sauer P239) has a dangerously light trigger, which is silly because it’s the same design used by many law enforcement agencies, including the Secret Service, and the San Francisco Police.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Those brave jurors can now relax and enjoy the fruits of their labors. They can dine out on their courageous stand for years. Just think of how many proud San Franciscans will soon be able to say "I got to buy a drink for Juror X from the Zarate acquittal!"
    , @e
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two "explanations"?

    I think this is a moment we'll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    has a dangerously light trigger
     
    Did they measure the trigger pull weight? I have not seen it.
    , @ben tillman
    Just remember that even 50 years ago the DA's office in San Francisco would routinely free black rapists because the white victims, being white, had it coming.

    How much worse must it be now?
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  11. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  12. Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of “immigrant crime” is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn’t intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

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    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Troll: Hail, TWS, jimbojones
    • Replies: @EriK
    Beat it troll.
    , @Kylie
    You do know this immigrant was here illegally and was a felon in possession of a handgun, right? That was before he fired the gun, killing an American citizen.

    It's a little more serious than an undocumented immigrant making a boo boo that hurt some random white girl.
    , @Johnny Smoggins
    Don't waste your time. These morons probably think you shouldn't be allowed to fire a stolen gun at a crowded tourist site.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Wow you guys are pathetic.
     
    Thanks for offering your idiotic projection. You must be wholly unfamiliar with negligence, and the legal implications thereof. But hey, when you cannot learn the lessons provided by experience, nor the conclusions demanded by simple logic, you too can claim your status as an icon in the world of Leftists, Democrats, and Establishment Republicans.
    , @Orwellian State
    Sounds like something The Economist would say. They too constantly refer to themselves as "classical liberals", which is why they are the media world's biggest champion of open borders. They are owned by the Rothschild family, Jewish libtards pretending to be "classical liberals".
    , @CCZ
    Your referenced Library of Economics and Liberty and parent Liberty Fund describes itself as “founded in 1960 by Pierre F. Goodrich, an Indianapolis lawyer and businessman, to the end that some hopeful contribution may be made to the preservation, restoration, and development of individual liberty....”

    No “preservation, restoration, and development of individual liberty” is possible when a repeat offender illegal alien kills you, even if it “wasn't intentional.” Rest in Peace Kate Steinle.
    , @bomag

    The best you can come up with for a case of “immigrant crime” is...
     
    We've got 9/11 and a multitude of others. Thirty percent of federal inmates are criminal aliens.

    There is no need to import kind and loving people at the level we are getting. That we can't even keep out criminals just highlights the depravity of the system.
    , @ben tillman

    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of “immigrant crime” is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn’t intentional.
     
    Recklessness or negligence can constitute a crime.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I don't quite get the ricochet defense. I've read U.S. Army manuals that talked about using ricochets off of buildings to hit enemy troops under cover in urban areas.
    , @Pericles
    Lol, that's indeed a classic 'liberal'.
    , @Curmudgeon
    Involuntary manslaughter is not intentional, but still a crime. A driver losing control of a vehicle killing a pedestrian will likely be convicted of involuntary manslaughter. A hunter missing his target and the bullet ricochets, killing likely will be convicted of involuntary manslaughter. How in hell can an illegal alien stealing a firearm and deliberately discharging a firearm in order to shoot a "seal", not be?
    , @lavoisier
    Had not heard that one.

    Certainly changes the tenor of the story if true.

    But wouldn't manslaughter still be the crime even if the hapless fool was shooting off a gun in front of a lot of people?

    , @Classical Libtard Says...
    He admitted he shot the gun libtard. In a crowded place. It doesn't matter idiot if it was an "accident" or not. It being an accident is not an element of the crime (although an awfully weak defence). Shooting a gun off in a crowd that results in a death is criminally negligent. I realize you're a complete fool-but surely gun confiscating libtards should surely grasp this kindergarten grade concept. Now fuck off.
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  13. Anon87 says:

    Were the feds waiting outside the courthouse to round him up and dump him as far into Mexico as possible?

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    • Replies: @Bubba
    I'd like to use a catapult to toss him back 40,000 feet into the air and hopes he lands in Bolivia.
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  14. Now watch to see NeverTrump & the Resistance spin this as a negative for Trump and the idea of enforcement. As in, “You thought if you voted for Trump you’d get justice for Kate’s family, but ha! That’ll teach you.”

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Trump will tweet about this acquital, and he'll be widely condemned for whatever he says.
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  15. @Hail
    Has the gunman simply been released?

    Given legal status on humanitarian grounds, perhaps?

    Has the gunman simply been released?

    Given legal status on humanitarian grounds, perhaps?

    Let’s hope so

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  16. eah says:
    @eah
    https://twitter.com/contentmancy/status/936411261847441408
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  17. This makes the OJ verdict look positively reasonable. What is it with California and clown college justice? Oh wait, I remember…

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  18. Ivy says:
    @Thomas
    I said these jurors might have cast the first twelve votes to re-elect Trump, but I guess we’ll see.

    I’m surprised that involuntary manslaughter lost out too. I’m guessing the jury figured maybe this complicated gun lost by a federal agent winding up in the hands of this poor, dumb, harmless illegal meant he couldn’t be responsible for anything. The defense hammered hard on a theory that the gun (a SIG Sauer P239) has a dangerously light trigger, which is silly because it’s the same design used by many law enforcement agencies, including the Secret Service, and the San Francisco Police.

    Those brave jurors can now relax and enjoy the fruits of their labors. They can dine out on their courageous stand for years. Just think of how many proud San Franciscans will soon be able to say “I got to buy a drink for Juror X from the Zarate acquittal!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @CCZ
    "Diversity Is Our Strength"

    “We are very pleased with the jury,” said Matt Gonzalez, the lead defense lawyer in the case and the chief attorney of the San Francisco Public Defender’s Office. “We have such great diversity built in in San Francisco and I think we have a jury that understands a lot of the concerns about the defendant receiving a fair trial.”
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  19. The jurors should be put in jail for life along with this illegal felon. This is a now a sickness that has infected most of the USA. If this would have been a white person who did the same thing he would been found guilty of every charge. This country is done. The life of a white person means nothing. There is but one recourse and everyone knows what it is…….

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Be careful what you wish for. A frail thread of respect for the Rule of Law is all that's holding this nation together now.
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  20. Michelle says:

    This is so awful that I can’t even process it. I was not a Trumper, but now I have to be. It’s survival here in the Bay Area, where illegal scum have all the rights and promising, beautiful, young women have none, because they are white!

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  21. Whiskey says: • Website

    It’s never ever ok to be White. Not ever. White = no rights.

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    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Do you still think defending Israel is the key to the defense of Western Civ?
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  22. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Patriots shouldn’t riot and go crazy like blacks do, but they should organize a nation-wide protest and march.

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  23. TheBoom says:

    No doubt Steinle would have supported the ruling if it wasn’t her that was killed. No group feels white women are expendable more than liberal white women when the rapist or murderer is a replacement not Haven M. South Africa and Zimbabwe here we come.

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  24. Dr. X says:

    This is absurd beyond belief. California has implemented some of the most drastic, unconstitutional gun laws in the country — which, of course, only affect law-abiding, taxpaying, home-owning, job-holding citizens who have a LOT to lose if they violate them.

    Conversely, an illegal alien who had been deported multiple times and had a felony record shoots an innocent bystander and gets off with no homicide conviction. This is the very definition of anarcho-tyranny.

    Even if the shooting was an accident (and frankly I don’t know how the defense was able to “prove” that it was, other than the mere assertion of the defendant ) they guy still should have been convicted of some kind of homicide charge, such as manslaughter or criminally-negligent homicide.

    This is nuts. California is nuts. This f-ing country is nuts.

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    • Agree: Bubba, RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I am cutting and pasting this comment of yours into my blog, Doctor. I hope you don't mind. That's about the best summation I can think of, of this madness. We used to just be kidding when we said California is the land of fruits and nuts (errr, at least the nuts part).
    , @David In TN
    The defense claimed Zarate "found" the gun under a bench in a public place. Since when does a street criminal steal a valuable handgun and then walk away leaving it for someone else to find?

    For how a handgun changes hands in the criminal underworld, see a chapter titled "The Gun," in Clark Howard's book, "Zebra," pages 361-71 in the 1980 paperback edition.
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  25. CCZ says:
    @Ivy
    Those brave jurors can now relax and enjoy the fruits of their labors. They can dine out on their courageous stand for years. Just think of how many proud San Franciscans will soon be able to say "I got to buy a drink for Juror X from the Zarate acquittal!"

    “Diversity Is Our Strength”

    “We are very pleased with the jury,” said Matt Gonzalez, the lead defense lawyer in the case and the chief attorney of the San Francisco Public Defender’s Office. “We have such great diversity built in in San Francisco and I think we have a jury that understands a lot of the concerns about the defendant receiving a fair trial.”

    Read More
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  26. D. K. says:

    Attorney General Sessions could hit him up immediately for an additional ten or twenty years:

    ***

    “The basic statutory maximum penalty for reentry after deportation is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or both. However, with regard to an alien whose ‘removal’ was subsequent to a conviction for commission of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), the statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years. Moreover, if deportation was subsequent to conviction for an aggravated felony, the statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 20 years.”

    ***

    https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1912-8-usc-1326-reentry-after-deportation-removal

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    • Replies: @TheBoom
    It would be overruled by the 9th circuit
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  27. e says:

    A paid Democrat Party spinner on Fox flat out stated Dems are going to be running from sanctuary cities by tomorrow. There is no spinning this one.

    I wish Trump would call for a boycott of San Francisco. It doesn’t take much to make hoteliers and restaurateurs freak out and tell politicos to get their policies straight. I have never understood why it hasn’t happened yet.

    Personally, although I live a 37 minute Bart ride from SF, I haven’t given them a dime of my money in years. Good thing I don’t fly.

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  28. snorlax says:

    I’m honestly aghast. I knew SF was far gone, but I would still never in a million years have guessed this. This is like the OJ verdict v2, except of course that it’ll be under a media blackout.

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    • Replies: @27 year old

    This is like the OJ verdict v2, except of course that it’ll be under a media blackout.
     
    Not if Trump tweets about it
    , @Michelle
    White riot!!
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  29. Corn says:
    @Hail
    Has the gunman simply been released?

    Given legal status on humanitarian grounds, perhaps?

    I hope to hell he is being deported but this is California we’re talking about. His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hail

    His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.
     
    "When asked whether he intends to make a seventh undocumented entry into the United States, Zarate replied that he is considering it but is undecided, as yet, on either a specific date of entry or tunnel of entry. For now, he wants to celebrate the verdict, which, his lawyers later said in a formal statement, represents a milestone victory against White supremacy. "This country has come a long way," concluded Bernie Bernstein, Zarate's chief defense counsel. Zarate, in brief remarks, also said that he will be glad to see his relatives "for a while," before making a seventh undocumented entry into the United States. He has promised to reduce his stray shooting in the future."
    , @bgates
    I hope to hell he is being deported but this is California we’re talking about

    If he stays and fights I bet he could get the firearm charge overturned on appeal, on the grounds that his case has already demonstrated it's impossible for an "undocumented immigrant" to do anything illegal with a firearm in California, so why outlaw possession?
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  30. @snorlax
    I'm honestly aghast. I knew SF was far gone, but I would still never in a million years have guessed this. This is like the OJ verdict v2, except of course that it'll be under a media blackout.

    This is like the OJ verdict v2, except of course that it’ll be under a media blackout.

    Not if Trump tweets about it

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Trump has tweeted, and zero on BBC radio news, which was in fainting mode after his Britain First retweets.

    If the races of perp and victim were reversed, BBC would be running live interviews from SF 24/7.

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  31. e says:
    @Thomas
    I said these jurors might have cast the first twelve votes to re-elect Trump, but I guess we’ll see.

    I’m surprised that involuntary manslaughter lost out too. I’m guessing the jury figured maybe this complicated gun lost by a federal agent winding up in the hands of this poor, dumb, harmless illegal meant he couldn’t be responsible for anything. The defense hammered hard on a theory that the gun (a SIG Sauer P239) has a dangerously light trigger, which is silly because it’s the same design used by many law enforcement agencies, including the Secret Service, and the San Francisco Police.

    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two “explanations”?

    I think this is a moment we’ll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    I think this is a moment we’ll all remember
     
    Yes.

    But we are collecting a disturbing number of memorable events.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.
     
    Moreover, if he really just picked up a package off the ground that happened to be a pistol that then discharged, why did they return a guilty verdict on a weapons possession charge? The jury's action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?
    , @ben tillman

    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.
     
    Oh, now I see. This is how I know it wasn't an excusable accident.
    , @Thomas

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two “explanations”?
     
    Remember that a defense attorney only needs to raise reasonable doubt. Ultimately it's the prosecutors who have to prove their case beyond that, and get a unanimous verdict. And, in this case, the defense attorneys were able to raise claims like he didn't understand, there were translation issues, etc. One issue is that there was physical evidence of a ricochet, the bullet hit the ground and then ricocheted into Steinle.
    , @lavoisier
    "I think this is a moment we’ll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one."

    I would not count on that. White Liberal Democrats are impervious to reason or fairness.
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  32. Not even manslaughter, utterly shocking. You know damn well if the shooter had been a white man, he’d be found guilty of every charge. Every single one of the jurors need to be exposed and called to task.

    “For Donald Trump, we were just what he needed — beautiful girl, San Francisco, illegal immigrant, arrested a million times, a violent crime and yadda, yadda, yadda,” her mother, Liz Sullivan, told The San Francisco Chronicle. “We were the perfect storm for that man.”

    The parents, being from the Bay Area, sounded like die hard liberals. Maybe they’ll now ask for donations to be made to the support illegal immigrants fund, like the parents of that German girl who was raped and killed by a Muslim refugee.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous

    . You know damn well if the shooter had been a white man, he’d be found guilty of every charge.
     
    A white guy with a non-white victim would have also had to endure a potential 'hate crime' charge. It might not have gotten to the court stage, but immediately after the event we would have heard that the "police are also looking into whether or not a hate crime was committed."
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  33. Hail says: • Website

    This is like the OJ verdict v2

    Race of jurors?

    OJ Jury, 1994-5:
    - 9 Blacks, 1 Hispanic, 2 Whites

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  34. snorlax says:

    The gun the killer used was stolen from a federal employee (BLM ranger), so Sessions should retry him on federal charges.

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  35. Bubba says:

    Well whitey ain’t gonna riot over this and California taxpayers just forked over millions for another jury nullification verdict. The illegal alien confessed to shooting her! Why have trials when even crappy lawyers can game the jury selection system to get an outrageous verdict like this. This jury was composed of gullible idiots like the OJ and Casey Anthony sham trials.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    If a person is nullifying a jury it's not because they're gullible. It's a deliberate political act (whatever the politics in question may be).
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  36. Michelle says:
    @snorlax
    I'm honestly aghast. I knew SF was far gone, but I would still never in a million years have guessed this. This is like the OJ verdict v2, except of course that it'll be under a media blackout.

    White riot!!

    Read More
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  37. Bubba says:

    This was a case of D.A. Affirmative Action in action. All praise diversity and stupidity! And don’t notice anything while you are at it!

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  38. Hail says: • Website

    Clashing quotations.

    (1) From the AP this evening:

    “U.S. immigration officials say they will deport Mexican man found not guilty of murder in San Francisco pier shooting.”

    (2) From previous media reports on the killing:

    “Zarate had been deported five times and was wanted for a sixth deportation when Kate Steinle was fatally shot in the back.”

    Hmm…

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    “U.S. immigration officials say they will deport Mexican man found not guilty of murder in San Francisco pier shooting.”
     
    Hey, it worked so well the first five times. Why not keep trying it?
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  39. anon says: • Disclaimer

    I wonder if those angry, entitled white people we keep hearing about will take to the streets tonight and start looting convenience stores.

    Read More
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  40. TheBoom says:
    @D. K.
    Attorney General Sessions could hit him up immediately for an additional ten or twenty years:

    ***

    "The basic statutory maximum penalty for reentry after deportation is a fine under title 18, imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or both. However, with regard to an alien whose 'removal' was subsequent to a conviction for commission of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), the statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 10 years. Moreover, if deportation was subsequent to conviction for an aggravated felony, the statutory maximum term of imprisonment is 20 years."

    ***

    https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1912-8-usc-1326-reentry-after-deportation-removal

    It would be overruled by the 9th circuit

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    On what grounds?

    I swear this "AXTUALLY DA NINTH CIRCUS" as an excuse to not do anything is basically the sign of a coward.
    , @D. K.
    The Ninth Circuit (in which I used to practice law, up in Seattle) would be overturned by the Supreme Court of the United States-- as the Ninth Circuit so often is-- and the federal criminal conviction would be reinstated.
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  41. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Hail
    Clashing quotations.


    (1) From the AP this evening:

    "U.S. immigration officials say they will deport Mexican man found not guilty of murder in San Francisco pier shooting."
     
    (2) From previous media reports on the killing:

    "Zarate had been deported five times and was wanted for a sixth deportation when Kate Steinle was fatally shot in the back."
     
    Hmm...

    “U.S. immigration officials say they will deport Mexican man found not guilty of murder in San Francisco pier shooting.”

    Hey, it worked so well the first five times. Why not keep trying it?

    Read More
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  42. Time to see if federal civil rights charges are for everyone or only to be used against southerners who don’t know what’s good for them.

    Even CuckTwitter finally sees the tides of blood. Some of the NeverTrumpers seem honestly scared of a backlash.

    Read More
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  43. @TheBoom
    It would be overruled by the 9th circuit

    On what grounds?

    I swear this “AXTUALLY DA NINTH CIRCUS” as an excuse to not do anything is basically the sign of a coward.

    Read More
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  44. He admitted to police that he fired the gun to shoot a seal! No doubt the sleazebag lawyer advised him to change his story, and the jury chose to believe the revised account. Libtards have sunk to a new low.

    From Zerohedge:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-30/shocking-verdict-san-francisco-jury-acquits-kates-law-victims-killer

    Zarate and his defense team maintained the argument that the suspect found the stolen weapon on the pier that day and it “just fired.”

    The gun belonged to a federal Bureau of Land Management ranger and was stolen from his parked car a week earlier.

    The bullet ricocheted on the pier’s concrete walkway before it struck Steinle, killing her. Zarate has admitted to shooting Steinle, but says it was an accident.

    Defense attorney Matt Gonzalez said Garcia Zarate found the gun at the pier… but the stories of what happened copntradicted one another…

    He said it was wrapped in cloth, and when Garcia Zarate unwrapped it, the gun accidentally discharged.

    But in a police interrogation, Garcia Zarate admitted to firing the gun, saying he was aiming at a seal.

    He also told police that he stepped on the gun, causing it to fire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    If it ricocheted on the walkway first it does seem like it was an accident.
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  45. EriK says:
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Beat it troll.

    Read More
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  46. Bubba says:
    @Anon87
    Were the feds waiting outside the courthouse to round him up and dump him as far into Mexico as possible?

    I’d like to use a catapult to toss him back 40,000 feet into the air and hopes he lands in Bolivia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CCZ
    "use a catapult to toss him back 40,000 feet into the air"

    Politically incorrect humor has provided the model. To bad farce can't become reality in this case.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9lVbnCuvio
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  47. JimB says:

    Feds should now prosecute this illegal alien, just like they prosecuted the cops who beat Rodney King. Clearly Kate Steinle’s civil right to live was violated.

    Read More
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  48. BenKenobi says:
    @Bubba
    Well whitey ain't gonna riot over this and California taxpayers just forked over millions for another jury nullification verdict. The illegal alien confessed to shooting her! Why have trials when even crappy lawyers can game the jury selection system to get an outrageous verdict like this. This jury was composed of gullible idiots like the OJ and Casey Anthony sham trials.

    If a person is nullifying a jury it’s not because they’re gullible. It’s a deliberate political act (whatever the politics in question may be).

    Read More
    • Agree: Bubba
    • Replies: @Bubba
    Yes, you are correct. And I am a terrible editor when writing in an upset mood. :-)
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  49. D. K. says:
    @TheBoom
    It would be overruled by the 9th circuit

    The Ninth Circuit (in which I used to practice law, up in Seattle) would be overturned by the Supreme Court of the United States– as the Ninth Circuit so often is– and the federal criminal conviction would be reinstated.

    Read More
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  50. Kylie says:
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    You do know this immigrant was here illegally and was a felon in possession of a handgun, right? That was before he fired the gun, killing an American citizen.

    It’s a little more serious than an undocumented immigrant making a boo boo that hurt some random white girl.

    Read More
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  51. AndrewR says:

    Pussy whites ain’t gonna do shit.

    Read More
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  52. Poor Kate. If her last name had just been Stein, the media would have been all over SF to put this guy away forever — and they would have gotten their way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Poor Kate. If her last name had just been Stein, the media would have been all over SF to put this guy away forever — and they would have gotten their way.

    I guess no one figured out that Ron Goldman was Jewish.
    , @biz
    I dunno, there was a guy named Zimmerman who was involved in a prominent murder case and seemed to not enjoy the adoration of the media.

    And there was a guy named Goldman whose obvious killer in the trial of the century got off.

    And there was a guy named Strauss-Kahn who the media quickly rushed to declare guilty of a completely improbable rape of a Muslim woman, a case which eventually fell apart when the accuser was overheard talking to her friend about how she was bullshitting in hopes of getting some money.

    Contrary to your claim, it doesn't seem that people with Jewish names in high profile cases actually enjoy the good graces of the media or justice system.

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  53. Hail says: • Website
    @Corn
    I hope to hell he is being deported but this is California we’re talking about. His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.

    His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.

    “When asked whether he intends to make a seventh undocumented entry into the United States, Zarate replied that he is considering it but is undecided, as yet, on either a specific date of entry or tunnel of entry. For now, he wants to celebrate the verdict, which, his lawyers later said in a formal statement, represents a milestone victory against White supremacy. “This country has come a long way,” concluded Bernie Bernstein, Zarate’s chief defense counsel. Zarate, in brief remarks, also said that he will be glad to see his relatives “for a while,” before making a seventh undocumented entry into the United States. He has promised to reduce his stray shooting in the future.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hail
    Cf. the actual quote from Mr. Garcia Zarate's lawyer, a Diversity-Enforcer called Francisco Ugarte (JD from City University of New York), at a press conference following verdict:

    "I believe today is a vindication for the rights of immigrants, that today we have to reflect -- all of us -- on how we talked about this case in the beginning, and how this swarm of reflection and reaction on the base of what I believe to be the racial dynamics of this case. Nothing about Mr. Garcia Zarate's ethnicity, nothing about his immigration status, nothing about the fact that he was born in Mexico had any relevance as to what happened on July 1st, 2015."
     
    _________________

    Tangential Q. Am I the only one who thinks the defendant's lawyer and anti-White-Supremacy activist Francisco Ugarte bears a striking resemblance to Mr. Sailer in younger days?
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  54. What kind of sentence would this guy have gotten if he were a black US citizen?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    What kind of sentence would this guy have gotten if he were a black US citizen?
     
    He'd play dominos and watch talk shows in prison for a year or two with his homies. A Mexican, apparently, just gets to go free.
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  55. @eah
    It was all just one big unfortunate accident, including the fact he was on the street in the first place -- if you're looking for "depravity", SF's sanctuary policy also qualifies.

    https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/936404828040806401

    Woods is right. This will shift even more of the middle to support of a practical immigration policy.

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  56. You know, you are more likely to win the Power Ball lottery mega payout than be shot dead by a skipped bullet while walking a popular San Francisco tourist spot by some 5-time recidivist border crosser who the City of San Francisco had in jail but was shielding from Federal Immigration Authorities, who just happened to find a gun that was taken from a law-enforcement officer’s SUV that was left unlocked and the gun “just went off” after using it for “plinking” some Federally protected marine mammals, who was found completely innocent by 12 jurors, not only of any culpability in your death but also of any violation of protections of marine creatures.

    And the verdict comes in at the very split second to create a distraction from the outrage in the British House of Commons of the President of the United States “sharing” a video of these bearded dudes smashing a statue of the Virgin Mary?

    That this whole impossibly probable chain of events even happened, what do we call this, people, Trump’s Luck?

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  57. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The three strikes California law, which results in serious prison time, applies to everyone in California… except illegal aliens. As Boston talk show host Howie Carr always says, “If I ever get into trouble I don’t want special treatment, I just want to be treated like an illegal alien.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Really? I was thinking any felony conviction and away he goes. That's shocking.
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  58. Pat Casey says:
    @eah
    https://twitter.com/contentmancy/status/936411261847441408

    Not me. That’s kinda weird.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    Not you what? -- the tweet is sarcasm -- read the one he is answering.
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  59. @Thomas
    I said these jurors might have cast the first twelve votes to re-elect Trump, but I guess we’ll see.

    I’m surprised that involuntary manslaughter lost out too. I’m guessing the jury figured maybe this complicated gun lost by a federal agent winding up in the hands of this poor, dumb, harmless illegal meant he couldn’t be responsible for anything. The defense hammered hard on a theory that the gun (a SIG Sauer P239) has a dangerously light trigger, which is silly because it’s the same design used by many law enforcement agencies, including the Secret Service, and the San Francisco Police.

    has a dangerously light trigger

    Did they measure the trigger pull weight? I have not seen it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomas

    Did they measure the trigger pull weight? I have not seen it.
     
    From what I heard, the defense attorney wanted the jurors to individually dry fire the gun. They asked to see it again during deliberations.

    A SIG has a trigger pull of 4.4-5.5 pounds in single-action (from what I read, this one, a P239, had a weight of 4.8 to 5.5, smaller guns often have a heavier pull weight). That's not that light. A Glock (most popular law enforcement pistol in the US) typically has a stock 5.5 pound weight. An M1911 "Government .45" usually has about a 3.5 pound pull (granted, those are normally carried on safe, "cocked and locked").
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  60. bgates says:

    You know damn well if the shooter had been a white man, he’d be found guilty of every charge.

    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions.

    A lot of Californians would want to bring back the death penalty and retroactively convict a white guy who told police he’d been shooting at sea lions, even if no bullet ever touched a mammal of any kind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    A lot of Californians would want to bring back the death penalty and retroactively convict a white guy who told police he’d been shooting at sea lions, even if no bullet ever touched a mammal of any kind.
     
    Hey, we're all mammals here too, so watch those microagressions .. but seriously, that is a really good point that I hadn't thought of until your comment. Even if you were to mention thinking about shooting at some sea lines to your average white San Franciscan, you'd know he (probably she) would never speak to you again.

    The treehuggers will let anything ruinous to America slide, just as the Sierra Club decided 20 years ago that talking about the environmental problem of too many people is a big no-no. That one was about the money to begin with, but once the cntrl-left takes over, all the real environmental/conservation stuff takes a back seat to the gaining of POWER. It's just about power. I mean, the USSR was not a treehuggers paradise, to be generous.

    So, power of the cntrl-left and dieversity over sea mammals, even the cute ones... even the cute land mammals that end up in an early grave.
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  61. @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Don’t waste your time. These morons probably think you shouldn’t be allowed to fire a stolen gun at a crowded tourist site.

    Read More
    • LOL: Malcolm X-Lax
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  62. If You’re Going To San Francisco Wear Some Armor When You’re There

    If you’re going to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear your armor and beware
    If you’re going to San Francisco
    Foreign felons get away with murder there

    Aliens who come to San Francisco
    juries will be your love-in there
    In the streets of San Francisco
    Kate was murdered, the jury did not care

    All across the nation, endless foreign invasion
    People in motion
    Endless foreign invasion, lawless exoneration
    People in motion, justice dead by implosion

    For those who come to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear your armor and beware
    Justice ain’t done in San Francisco
    Kate Steinle died and the jury did not care

    Alien felons, San Francisco
    Juries are your love-in there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Awesome, Auntie Analogue.
    , @Steve Sailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0vkKy504U
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  63. @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Wow you guys are pathetic.

    Thanks for offering your idiotic projection. You must be wholly unfamiliar with negligence, and the legal implications thereof. But hey, when you cannot learn the lessons provided by experience, nor the conclusions demanded by simple logic, you too can claim your status as an icon in the world of Leftists, Democrats, and Establishment Republicans.

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  64. bgates says:
    @Corn
    I hope to hell he is being deported but this is California we’re talking about. His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.

    I hope to hell he is being deported but this is California we’re talking about

    If he stays and fights I bet he could get the firearm charge overturned on appeal, on the grounds that his case has already demonstrated it’s impossible for an “undocumented immigrant” to do anything illegal with a firearm in California, so why outlaw possession?

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  65. @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Sounds like something The Economist would say. They too constantly refer to themselves as “classical liberals”, which is why they are the media world’s biggest champion of open borders. They are owned by the Rothschild family, Jewish libtards pretending to be “classical liberals”.

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  66. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail

    His lawyer or some activist group probably ushered him to a safe house.
     
    "When asked whether he intends to make a seventh undocumented entry into the United States, Zarate replied that he is considering it but is undecided, as yet, on either a specific date of entry or tunnel of entry. For now, he wants to celebrate the verdict, which, his lawyers later said in a formal statement, represents a milestone victory against White supremacy. "This country has come a long way," concluded Bernie Bernstein, Zarate's chief defense counsel. Zarate, in brief remarks, also said that he will be glad to see his relatives "for a while," before making a seventh undocumented entry into the United States. He has promised to reduce his stray shooting in the future."

    Cf. the actual quote from Mr. Garcia Zarate’s lawyer, a Diversity-Enforcer called Francisco Ugarte (JD from City University of New York), at a press conference following verdict:

    “I believe today is a vindication for the rights of immigrants, that today we have to reflect — all of us — on how we talked about this case in the beginning, and how this swarm of reflection and reaction on the base of what I believe to be the racial dynamics of this case. Nothing about Mr. Garcia Zarate’s ethnicity, nothing about his immigration status, nothing about the fact that he was born in Mexico had any relevance as to what happened on July 1st, 2015.”

    _________________

    Tangential Q. Am I the only one who thinks the defendant’s lawyer and anti-White-Supremacy activist Francisco Ugarte bears a striking resemblance to Mr. Sailer in younger days?

    Read More
    • Disagree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My hairline has receded less than Senor Ugarte's.
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  67. @Peripatetic commenter
    As someone asks over at Gab.ai:

    https://gabfiles.blob.core.windows.net/image/5a20d6ccd1002.jpeg

    Also:

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  68. Once Trump signs off on the tax cut, what leverage will he have to get the wall built?

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  69. CCZ says:
    @Bubba
    I'd like to use a catapult to toss him back 40,000 feet into the air and hopes he lands in Bolivia.

    “use a catapult to toss him back 40,000 feet into the air”

    Politically incorrect humor has provided the model. To bad farce can’t become reality in this case.

    Read More
    • LOL: Bubba
    • Replies: @Bubba
    Thank you for posting that! Hilarious!
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  70. TheBoom says:

    OJ Norte? Just comprised mainly of black women side with non white killer over murdered white woman. I wonder if they found this guy dateable.

    Read More
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  71. @Auntie Analogue
    If You're Going To San Francisco Wear Some Armor When You're There

    If you're going to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear your armor and beware
    If you're going to San Francisco
    Foreign felons get away with murder there

    Aliens who come to San Francisco
    juries will be your love-in there
    In the streets of San Francisco
    Kate was murdered, the jury did not care

    All across the nation, endless foreign invasion
    People in motion
    Endless foreign invasion, lawless exoneration
    People in motion, justice dead by implosion

    For those who come to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear your armor and beware
    Justice ain't done in San Francisco
    Kate Steinle died and the jury did not care

    Alien felons, San Francisco
    Juries are your love-in there.

    Awesome, Auntie Analogue.

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  72. Let’s call it Kate’s Wall!

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    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
    The jurors in San Francisco have just done President Trump a favor. They have ensured his re-election in 2020!
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  73. @17 “Patriots shouldn’t riot and go crazy like blacks do, but they should organize a nation-wide protest and march.”

    A march? A march? Let’s hope this is sarcasm.

    The *only* thing that marches ever accomplished was to get a few seconds of air time. That’s why placards were important: they got the message onto people’s screens. Now? First, who watches TV these days; and second, the media is far, far too tightly controlled.

    Marches accomplish less than nothing, they are actively counter-productive.

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  74. Hail says: • Website

    - Donald Trump tweets against verdict, Nov 30, 2017, 10:30 PM EST
    - As of 12:15 AM (Tweet+105mins) has 20,012 Retweets 59,795 Likes

    Has anyone done an analysis of what types of Donald Trump’s tweets get the most Retweets/Likes? To pick three big recent ones:
    - “Theresa May, you really gotta deal with your Radical Islamic Problem” of yesterday has 37K Retweets and 107K Likes

    - “Lavar is a poor man’s version of Don King” of last week has 33K Retweets and 126K Likes.

    – “Kim Jong Un is Short and Fat” (Nov 11, 2017) has an impressive 273K Retweets and 617K Likes. This may be one of his most retweeted ever.

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  75. J.Ross says: • Website

    Service firearms in California have to survive a “drop test,” that is, you have to be able to drop them without them going off.
    I am still processing this. /pol/ had six simultaneous threads (redundant threads are forbidden, but this is never enforced) calling for riots. When I was a leftist one of Howard Zinn’s most affecting citationless little anecdotes (that often turned out to be false or spurious) was of an Italian judge, under Mussolini, stating in his verdict that some nameless Commie was totally innocent, but the state was going to go ahead and sentence him anyway. Zinn wasn’t aware of any cases of Commie judges using similar reasoning (they never had to, they reliably had confessions). In his People’s History, Zinn places that as the central illustration of What Fascism Was and why we had to fight it.
    You can’t even call it Satanic because, in Christian mythology, Satan is rigorously just. This is staggering.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Service firearms in California have to survive a “drop test,” that is, you have to be able to drop them without them going off.
     
    Yes, a cursory web-search reveals that the SIG P239 has a firing-pin block, so that some pressure on the trigger is required to discharge it.

    Since guns are icky, probably nobody in the San Francisco D.A.'s office knows anything about them or cares to learn.
    , @Brutusale
    By the late 70s Howard Zinn wasn't interested in much other than adding young coeds to his coterie of sycophants and stoking his undying hatred of Boston University president John Silber.

    How long until the #MeToo crowd starts going to investigate the pedagogues at US colleges and universities, where the REAL sexual abuse takes place?
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  76. CMC says:

    So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge. The jury specifically cleared the killer not just of murder but of two intermediate charges.

    Maybe there was another intermediate charge available. If so, why gamble at all?

    San Jose defense attorney Dennis Alan Lempert said the prosecution should have pursued a charge of negligent discharge of a weapon rather than murder in the first- or second-degree and involuntary manslaughter.

    “The notion that it was an intentional shot to kill somebody belies credulity,” said Lempert, a former reserve officer with the Los Gatos police, noting that the bullet ricocheted off the pavement, ultimately traveling 200 feet — the equivalent of more than 10 lanes of traffic. “But the pressure on the prosecution was enormous.”

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/30/kate-steinle-shooting-jury-reaches-verdict/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

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  77. @Hail
    Cf. the actual quote from Mr. Garcia Zarate's lawyer, a Diversity-Enforcer called Francisco Ugarte (JD from City University of New York), at a press conference following verdict:

    "I believe today is a vindication for the rights of immigrants, that today we have to reflect -- all of us -- on how we talked about this case in the beginning, and how this swarm of reflection and reaction on the base of what I believe to be the racial dynamics of this case. Nothing about Mr. Garcia Zarate's ethnicity, nothing about his immigration status, nothing about the fact that he was born in Mexico had any relevance as to what happened on July 1st, 2015."
     
    _________________

    Tangential Q. Am I the only one who thinks the defendant's lawyer and anti-White-Supremacy activist Francisco Ugarte bears a striking resemblance to Mr. Sailer in younger days?

    My hairline has receded less than Senor Ugarte’s.

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    • Agree: Hail
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  78. bomag says:
    @e
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two "explanations"?

    I think this is a moment we'll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.

    I think this is a moment we’ll all remember

    Yes.

    But we are collecting a disturbing number of memorable events.

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  79. @Auntie Analogue
    If You're Going To San Francisco Wear Some Armor When You're There

    If you're going to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear your armor and beware
    If you're going to San Francisco
    Foreign felons get away with murder there

    Aliens who come to San Francisco
    juries will be your love-in there
    In the streets of San Francisco
    Kate was murdered, the jury did not care

    All across the nation, endless foreign invasion
    People in motion
    Endless foreign invasion, lawless exoneration
    People in motion, justice dead by implosion

    For those who come to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear your armor and beware
    Justice ain't done in San Francisco
    Kate Steinle died and the jury did not care

    Alien felons, San Francisco
    Juries are your love-in there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Led Zeppelin quoted a few bars of that in their super-long live version of Dazed And Confused, IIRC.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, I remember getting driven around the Gay Bay Area, through the city, across the Golden Gate to Muir Woods, etc. with some relatives in the 1980's. It was still a beautiful place, even then, and my Uncle, though not the type to have been a hippie, was singing along with the radio to this song. It's enough to make you become a hippie, if only for a week or two.

    "What have you done to our fair sister?" asked the yet-to-overdose Jim Morrison. I ask that to the white lefty Californians that have ruined a former Paradise. Your good intentions have come to this, the ruination of the best land and the best society the world had yet seen. Screw all of you - just stay there, at least, and leave the rest of us alone.
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  80. CCZ says:
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Your referenced Library of Economics and Liberty and parent Liberty Fund describes itself as “founded in 1960 by Pierre F. Goodrich, an Indianapolis lawyer and businessman, to the end that some hopeful contribution may be made to the preservation, restoration, and development of individual liberty….”

    No “preservation, restoration, and development of individual liberty” is possible when a repeat offender illegal alien kills you, even if it “wasn’t intentional.” Rest in Peace Kate Steinle.

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  81. @CMC

    So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge. The jury specifically cleared the killer not just of murder but of two intermediate charges.
     
    Maybe there was another intermediate charge available. If so, why gamble at all?

    San Jose defense attorney Dennis Alan Lempert said the prosecution should have pursued a charge of negligent discharge of a weapon rather than murder in the first- or second-degree and involuntary manslaughter.

    “The notion that it was an intentional shot to kill somebody belies credulity,” said Lempert, a former reserve officer with the Los Gatos police, noting that the bullet ricocheted off the pavement, ultimately traveling 200 feet — the equivalent of more than 10 lanes of traffic. “But the pressure on the prosecution was enormous.”
     
    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/30/kate-steinle-shooting-jury-reaches-verdict/

    If I’m shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that’s not “involuntary manslaughter”?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that’s okay too?

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer

    Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as a DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended.
    ...
    Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

    1. Someone was killed as a result of the defendant's actions.
    2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
    3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

     

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html
    , @bgates
    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=192.

    192.
    Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of three kinds:
    (a) Voluntary—upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.
    (b) Involuntary—in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection. This subdivision shall not apply to acts committed in the driving of a vehicle.
    (c) Vehicular—...
    (e) “Gross negligence,” as used in this section, does not prohibit or preclude a charge of murder under Section 188 upon facts exhibiting wantonness and a conscious disregard for life to support a finding of implied malice, or upon facts showing malice, consistent with the holding of the California Supreme Court in People v. Watson (1981) 30 Cal.3d 290.
    (f) (1) For purposes of determining sudden quarrel or heat of passion pursuant to subdivision (a), the provocation was not objectively reasonable if it resulted from the discovery of, knowledge about, or potential disclosure of the victim’s actual or perceived gender, gender identity, gender expression, or sexual orientation, including under circumstances in which the victim made an unwanted nonforcible romantic or sexual advance towards the defendant, or if the defendant and victim dated or had a romantic or sexual relationship. Nothing in this section shall preclude the jury from considering all relevant facts to determine whether the defendant was in fact provoked for purposes of establishing subjective provocation.
    (2) For purposes of this subdivision, “gender” includes a person’s gender identity and gender-related appearance and behavior regardless of whether that appearance or behavior is associated with the person’s gender as determined at birth.


    It looks like the jury found Zarate was acting "with due caution and circumspection" when he stepped on the weapon and/or picked it up. They must not have found he was shooting at sea lions, because that's an unlawful act under federal law, even for illegal immigrants.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    It's been a while since I studied the law of homicide, but I recall that gross recklessness was usually enough to satisfy the "malice aforethought," mens rea requirement to sustain a charge of murder. Firing a gun in the general direction of people seems to me grossly reckless. Ricochets are usually dangerous to the extent they continue downrange, so the murder's pistol must have been ponted in the general direction of Kate Steinle. An outrageous verdict, but, sadly, not an unexpected one.

    Didn't the San Francisco area once have something called the Committee of Vigilance?
    , @Eagle Eye
    Trying to shoot A but accidentally hitting and killing B constitutes murder rather than mere manslaughter under the theory of "transferred malice."

    Perhaps Zarate could still be found guilty under Federal law of shooting a protected mammal (but "only" hitting a human) under a similar theory of "transferred malice."

    , @Pericles

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that’s okay too?
     
    Verdict of the Ninth Circuit: Both acts are okay.
    , @Eagle Eye

    So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge.
     
    Most likely, the prosecution in the original Zimmerman case was quietly instructed by the Obama administration to work for an acquittal to (1) help rile up more low-info voters for the Democratic Party and (2) to avoid a defense motion to set aside a guilty verdict by reason of blatant interference by Barry himself. Even courts-martial have granted such motions where higher-ups in the chain of command got too involved in the outcome of a prosecution.
    , @CMC
    Yes, it is.

    And no, that’s not ok either.
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  82. bgates says:

    I wonder if this has cost any support for illegal immigration among the millions who were outraged at Trump’s hyperbolic claim that he could get away with doing on Fifth Avenue what Zarate just got away with doing on Fisherman’s Wharf.

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  83. Mr. Anon says:
    @e
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two "explanations"?

    I think this is a moment we'll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.

    Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    Moreover, if he really just picked up a package off the ground that happened to be a pistol that then discharged, why did they return a guilty verdict on a weapons possession charge? The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dr. X

    The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.
    , @WowJustWow

    Moreover, if he really just picked up a package off the ground that happened to be a pistol that then discharged, why did they return a guilty verdict on a weapons possession charge? The jury’s action was incoherent.
     
    "First of all, I wasn't even there, second of all, I didn't do it on purpose, and third of all, he had it coming!"
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  84. Impolitic says:

    It’s obscene that this guy was in our country, and he’s a lowlife who shouldn’t be allowed to roam the streets of any country, but it’s not implausible that he never intended to assault anyone, that this was indeed an accident. I’m not angry with the jury, I’m angry with our immigration system.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    but it’s not implausible that he never intended to assault anyone, that this was indeed an accident
     
    It seems clear he acted in a reckless manner, which carries culpability.

    But we can always imagine more doubt, like coming up with a smaller or larger number.

    Application of law mainly hinges on what is reasonable: what is reasonable doubt? what is a reasonable time frame for a speedy trial? Our sense of what is reasonable is heading off into the weeds.
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  85. bomag says:
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    The best you can come up with for a case of “immigrant crime” is…

    We’ve got 9/11 and a multitude of others. Thirty percent of federal inmates are criminal aliens.

    There is no need to import kind and loving people at the level we are getting. That we can’t even keep out criminals just highlights the depravity of the system.

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  86. @Peripatetic commenter
    Let's call it Kate's Wall!

    https://gabfiles.blob.core.windows.net/image/5a20e31616c76.jpeg

    The jurors in San Francisco have just done President Trump a favor. They have ensured his re-election in 2020!

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  87. @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as a DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called “criminally negligent homicide”) is a crime in which the victim’s death is unintended.

    Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

    1. Someone was killed as a result of the defendant’s actions.
    2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
    3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @JudgeSmails

    Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

    1. Someone was killed as a result of the defendant’s actions.
    2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
    3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.
     

    Element 1, check.

    Element 2, check.

    Element 3, check.

    Zarete is doubtlessly guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

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  88. Hey, it could have been an accident — how would I know?

    However, he deserves the death penalty for having invaded the country at least six times. Why was he not charged with that?

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  89. Mr. Anon says:
    @J.Ross
    Service firearms in California have to survive a "drop test," that is, you have to be able to drop them without them going off.
    I am still processing this. /pol/ had six simultaneous threads (redundant threads are forbidden, but this is never enforced) calling for riots. When I was a leftist one of Howard Zinn's most affecting citationless little anecdotes (that often turned out to be false or spurious) was of an Italian judge, under Mussolini, stating in his verdict that some nameless Commie was totally innocent, but the state was going to go ahead and sentence him anyway. Zinn wasn't aware of any cases of Commie judges using similar reasoning (they never had to, they reliably had confessions). In his People's History, Zinn places that as the central illustration of What Fascism Was and why we had to fight it.
    You can't even call it Satanic because, in Christian mythology, Satan is rigorously just. This is staggering.

    Service firearms in California have to survive a “drop test,” that is, you have to be able to drop them without them going off.

    Yes, a cursory web-search reveals that the SIG P239 has a firing-pin block, so that some pressure on the trigger is required to discharge it.

    Since guns are icky, probably nobody in the San Francisco D.A.’s office knows anything about them or cares to learn.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    How could an expensive firearm like a SIG P239 just be lying around in the floor of a pier? And a gun stolen from a ranger, no less!

    There's something fishy here beyond the acquittal. Maybe the gun had been used to commit another crime before Steinle's shooting, with or without the knowledge or consent of the ranger. So my guess is the establishment is trying to hide something beyond the Zarate case.
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  90. @e
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two "explanations"?

    I think this is a moment we'll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.

    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    Oh, now I see. This is how I know it wasn’t an excusable accident.

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  91. Gapeseed says:

    If he had actually killed a seal instead of that beautiful young woman, San Francisco would have reopened Alcatraz just for him.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  92. Bubba says:
    @CCZ
    "use a catapult to toss him back 40,000 feet into the air"

    Politically incorrect humor has provided the model. To bad farce can't become reality in this case.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9lVbnCuvio

    Thank you for posting that! Hilarious!

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  93. bgates says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=192.

    192.
    Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of three kinds:
    (a) Voluntary—upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.
    (b) Involuntary—in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection. This subdivision shall not apply to acts committed in the driving of a vehicle.
    (c) Vehicular—…
    (e) “Gross negligence,” as used in this section, does not prohibit or preclude a charge of murder under Section 188 upon facts exhibiting wantonness and a conscious disregard for life to support a finding of implied malice, or upon facts showing malice, consistent with the holding of the California Supreme Court in People v. Watson (1981) 30 Cal.3d 290.
    (f) (1) For purposes of determining sudden quarrel or heat of passion pursuant to subdivision (a), the provocation was not objectively reasonable if it resulted from the discovery of, knowledge about, or potential disclosure of the victim’s actual or perceived gender, gender identity, gender expression, or sexual orientation, including under circumstances in which the victim made an unwanted nonforcible romantic or sexual advance towards the defendant, or if the defendant and victim dated or had a romantic or sexual relationship. Nothing in this section shall preclude the jury from considering all relevant facts to determine whether the defendant was in fact provoked for purposes of establishing subjective provocation.
    (2) For purposes of this subdivision, “gender” includes a person’s gender identity and gender-related appearance and behavior regardless of whether that appearance or behavior is associated with the person’s gender as determined at birth.

    It looks like the jury found Zarate was acting “with due caution and circumspection” when he stepped on the weapon and/or picked it up. They must not have found he was shooting at sea lions, because that’s an unlawful act under federal law, even for illegal immigrants.

    Read More
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  94. There should be a name for this sort of travesty.

    I suggest, San Francisco Justice.

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  95. 1. A felon is in possession a firearm. This is a crime.

    2. The firearm he possesses is a stolen firearm. Possession of a stolen firearm, by anybody, is another crime.

    3. A shot from the stolen firearm kills somebody while the firearm is in the actual, physical possession of the felon. This happens while the man is in the act of committing two felonies, #1 and #2 above. Even if there was no intent, this is still a crime: involuntary manslaughter.

    Yet with all of that, Zarate apparently was only convicted of #1 above.

    Here is an analogy:

    1. Your license was revoked, but you are driving a car. You are committing a crime.

    2. The car you are driving is a stolen vehicle. Possession of a stolen vehicle is another crime.

    3. While you are illegally driving that stolen vehicle, you hit a woman who is out having a nice walk with her father. She dies. You have committed involuntary manslaughter.

    You are guilty of all three crimes, just as Zarate is guilty of all three of his crimes.

    Zarate was provided what our Constitution guarantees: a vigorous defense and innocence until guilt is proven, but even when only the bare minimum facts are given, simple logic says he is guilty, guilty, guilty — not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but by logical necessity.

    Correct me if my logic or legal knowledge is wrong.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    even when only the bare minimum facts are given, simple logic says he is guilty, guilty, guilty — not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but by logical necessity.
     
    There's no logical necessity for a jury.

    Venue and jury selection is critical.
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  96. Two comments:

    1. Over on the Chateau Heartiste blog, there was a scale of Diversity Overload Conditions(Divcon). One of the signs is the breakdown of the jury system. This verdict is an example.

    2. CalExit: Now more than ever.

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    • Replies: @Hail

    2. CalExit: Now more than ever.
     
    Need full demographic info on jury members.
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  97. @Thomas
    I said these jurors might have cast the first twelve votes to re-elect Trump, but I guess we’ll see.

    I’m surprised that involuntary manslaughter lost out too. I’m guessing the jury figured maybe this complicated gun lost by a federal agent winding up in the hands of this poor, dumb, harmless illegal meant he couldn’t be responsible for anything. The defense hammered hard on a theory that the gun (a SIG Sauer P239) has a dangerously light trigger, which is silly because it’s the same design used by many law enforcement agencies, including the Secret Service, and the San Francisco Police.

    Just remember that even 50 years ago the DA’s office in San Francisco would routinely free black rapists because the white victims, being white, had it coming.

    How much worse must it be now?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomas

    Just remember that even 50 years ago the DA’s office in San Francisco would routinely free black rapists because the white victims, being white, had it coming.

    How much worse must it be now?
     

    It probably hit its low point in the early 2000s under Terence "Fluffy" Hallinan, a former Communist radical and convicted criminal who was more interested in prosecuting police than criminals, and who had the lowest conviction rate of any DA in California. It got a little better after that, though that's obviously not saying much.

    San Francisco is a weird (though not surprising) case in that the Public Defender's office is considered the legal "varsity squad" compared to the DA's office, with ample resources, political connections and the lion's share of the limelight (it's the only public defender's office in California whose head is elected). Matt Gonzalez, Garcia Zarate's attorney, is the chief attorney in the office, and was previously the president of the Board of Supervisors (San Francisco's powerful city and county legislative authority), as well as Ralph Nader's Green Party running mate in 2008.

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  98. @Space Ghost
    What kind of sentence would this guy have gotten if he were a black US citizen?

    What kind of sentence would this guy have gotten if he were a black US citizen?

    He’d play dominos and watch talk shows in prison for a year or two with his homies. A Mexican, apparently, just gets to go free.

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  99. SF says:

    Apparently, Ugarté’s normal responsibility with the San Francisco public defender’s office is to use city and state tax money to defend illegal aliens in federal court. http://sfpublicdefender.org/news

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hail
    What can the federal government do practically against San Francisco?
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  100. eah says:

    He’s undocumented, that makes him holy.

    No, the fact he’s not white makes him “holy” — an oppressed ‘person of color’, another victim of ‘white supremacy’ — illegal Whites, eg an Irish overstayer, may also benefit from sanctuary policies, but these policies weren’t designed for them — do you really think the same dynamic would be present here were her killer white?

    Haven’t you been paying attention to the news?

    Apparently you haven’t.

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    • Replies: @Rod1963
    Spot on.

    It's all about protecting the person of color. Come on Steve no white felon with a rap sheet a mile long, shooting another white in SF or any liberal city would ever be given their walking papers. And that stolen gun from the BLM would certainly get him a visit from the ATF and some federal time.

    It's all about protecting ethnics and prosecuting a war on whites that is getting worse.
    , @eah
    https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/937356790517428224
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  101. Eagle Eye says:
    @eah
    It was all just one big unfortunate accident, including the fact he was on the street in the first place -- if you're looking for "depravity", SF's sanctuary policy also qualifies.

    https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/936404828040806401

    The back story is that San Francisco had REQUESTED that the Obama-era Feds transfer Zarate to SF custody on an ancient warrant for dope peddling (!)

    The dope warrant was then later dismissed, but SF refused to return Zarate to Fed custody under its “sanctuary” policy.

    Most likely, SF officials were paid by local gangs to request transfer of custody from the Feds as an end-run to save Zarate from yet another deportation and/or federal sentence.

    Also, there is likely more to the Steinle murder itself than meets the eye. Either it was a targeted killing for some reason, or the murder of a young woman from out of town was commissioned as part of a shake-down of the city and/or local merchants dependent on local tourism.

    Journalists were specially allowed to interview Zarate in jail where he told them that he had been trying to shoot sea lions (which in itself is, of course, a serious federal offense). Evidently, the brazen misdirection worked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    There does not appear to be any dispute that the bullet ricocheted off the concrete walkway. That doesn't seem to fit a murder theory.
    , @eah
    The verdict was not a surprise.

    more to the Steinle murder itself than meets the eye

    That's far-fetched.

    SF officials

    They're all scum -- government in CA exists to serve 'people of color' and aberrant sexuality -- your safety be damned.

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  102. @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of “immigrant crime” is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn’t intentional.

    Recklessness or negligence can constitute a crime.

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    • Agree: eah
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  103. Patriot says:

    Does anyone know how many shots were fired, and the angle of the ricochet? Was the gun aimed toward the water?

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  104. @Patrick Sullivan
    Now watch to see NeverTrump & the Resistance spin this as a negative for Trump and the idea of enforcement. As in, "You thought if you voted for Trump you'd get justice for Kate's family, but ha! That'll teach you."

    Trump will tweet about this acquital, and he’ll be widely condemned for whatever he says.

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  105. J.Ross says: • Website

    We’re getting pictures of the jury. This was pure tribalist nullification.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Has the jury given any interviews? Would be interesting to hear the explanation they give.
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  106. Rod1963 says:

    You realize this was the SF DA and others sending Trump and his base a message? That message is – we do as we please.

    The trial had no business being held in SF to begin with. But the DA kept it there to rig it.

    BTW if this guy had 5 felonies prior to shooting Stienle, why wasn’t he kept in prison under 3 Strike for 25 years?

    It will be interesting to read Trump’s response if any. Because they just rubbed his nose in s**t.

    But it”s also clear the justice system is so rigged as to be a joke. Very 3rd world. As a I said before, the progs have declared war on us and we haven’t noticed.

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  107. MattinLA says:

    Love Wins

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  108. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0vkKy504U

    Led Zeppelin quoted a few bars of that in their super-long live version of Dazed And Confused, IIRC.

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  109. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    I don’t quite get the ricochet defense. I’ve read U.S. Army manuals that talked about using ricochets off of buildings to hit enemy troops under cover in urban areas.

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  110. Hail says: • Website

    I’ve found the defense lawyer (“Today is a vindication for the rights of immigrants!”) Francisco Ugarte’s Twitter. 182 tweets. He was evidently a Bernie supporter and otherwise a stock figure of the ethnically-aggrieved Hard Left, the Anti-(White-)American ‘Agitation Left’ (yet he himself is, by ancestry, clearly European).

    Sample:

    Francisco Ugarte‏
    @1FranciscoUgart Sep 5
    The Third Reich’s deportation program was “legal” too. So was slavery. #defendDACA #ImpeachTrump #endracism

    Francisco Ugarte‏
    @1FranciscoUgart Aug 13
    White supremacy is real, powerful, and extremely dangerous. Don’t sanitize it. Call it out. Fight like hell against it. #impeach

    Francisco Ugarte‏
    @1FranciscoUgart Feb 20
    https://tinyurl.com/zjejnga one step at a time, we will build a powerful deportation defense network in the San Francisco Bay Area. #not1more

    And here threatening destruction of federal property (“You build the Wall, we tear it down”), and implied intent to collude with illegal incursion by foreigners. How much does it take to get a sedition charge?

    Francisco Ugarte
    @1FranciscoUgart Jan 28
    Thousands of people at #SFO, hour’s notice. Folks, we got this! #YouBuildtheWallWeTearitDown #NoMuslimBan

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  111. Thomas says:
    @e
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two "explanations"?

    I think this is a moment we'll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two “explanations”?

    Remember that a defense attorney only needs to raise reasonable doubt. Ultimately it’s the prosecutors who have to prove their case beyond that, and get a unanimous verdict. And, in this case, the defense attorneys were able to raise claims like he didn’t understand, there were translation issues, etc. One issue is that there was physical evidence of a ricochet, the bullet hit the ground and then ricocheted into Steinle.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    When I did Jury Service here in London I seemed to be the only person who understood that the Prosecution had to prove their case. Most of the other Jurors believed that the Defendant had to prove his innocence.
    , @Neuday
    So if I fire a legally possessed gun aiming at a raccoon and it kills a neighbor, it's not negligent homicide or manslaughter, but just an oopsie.
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  112. Whiskey says: • Website

    Random observations:

    A. Why is anyone shocked. The LAW says: Blacks are holy, almost as holy as Muslims, and Mestizos are nearly as holy as Blacks, while Whites are untouchable, have no rights, and their lives have no value whatsoever.

    ITS NEVER OK TO BE WHITE.

    This is what the LAW says. Forget all that Constitution bs — its nothing but garbage. LAW, real law, is made by a judge and published by Salon clickbait and is whatever a Judge says it is that day. Tomorrow it might be different. And Justice, far from being Blind, sees always and DOES NOT LIKE WHITE PEOPLE. This is no country for White women. Or men.

    B. This is a massive defeat for Trump. He can’t even punish an illegal alien who at the least caused a White woman’s death. He looks weak, while Whites cannot make themselves feared or respected. There will be no burned out buildings, dead bodies, and looted properties plus days of violence and rage whenever Black people get angry. No planes into buildings or pressure cooker bombs or death tolls at office Christmas parties when Muslims get angry. THAT gets results.

    At least part of this is that White women have the same solidarity with themselves as they do White men. They view themselves as atomic individuals and the death of Katie Steinle is no doubt viewed as a positive, removing a pretty rival from the population. See by contrast the moaning over fattie Heather Heyer — there is nothing women hate so much as a pretty potential rival. That’s the basic plot point of 99.9999% of female entertainment.

    C. Expect any day now more Federal Judges and State Judges to follow the Jury’s example and simply dismiss any and all cases with a White victim and a non-White perp on the basis of … White = No Rights.

    D. Derbyshire if anything understated things. There is no downside for a non-White killing a White. White people are not even persons, we have no rights and no one fears us. Act accordingly.

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  113. Hail says: • Website
    @SF
    Apparently, Ugarté's normal responsibility with the San Francisco public defender's office is to use city and state tax money to defend illegal aliens in federal court. http://sfpublicdefender.org/news

    What can the federal government do practically against San Francisco?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thomas

    What can the federal government do practically against San Francisco?
     
    One thing they certainly ought to do after this case is to refuse to hand over anyone pending deportation from federal custody to any sanctuary city or state. Someone pointed out here that Garcia Zarate had been in federal prison, and was pending deportation, but was sent to San Francisco on an old drug warrant (that was promptly dismissed and he was set loose without any notice to the feds). The policy ought to be to keep such individuals in federal custody, and, if they are to appear in a state or local proceeding, they’re brought to court and then promptly returned to a federal lock up, where they’ll stay pending the case. (Make it even better and charge the sanctuary cities a per diem rate to keep them in custody.)

    One thing I would like to see is ICE condoning and soliciting unofficial cooperation with police in sanctuary cities, state and local policy be damned. If sanctuary cities want to ignore federal law, nothing says the feds shouldn’t try to do the same regarding sanctuary policies. Cops in the same cities talk and cooperate all the time, even across jurisdictions, and nothing would effectively prevent local cops from surreptitiously “dropping a dime” to ICE about what they know. Maybe also see about coming up with a “special deputy” program, similar to the Section 287(g) program (allowing local law enforcement agencies to be deputized to enforce immigration law), but on an individual level, to allow local cops to do TAD with ICE off the clock. If their departments try to fire them, litigate it through their union proceedings and the courts, and offer DOJ support in doing so, on the argument that trying to fire someone for cooperating with federal law is wrongful termination. And if that fails, just poach them and offer them jobs with ICE, where they can bring along their local law enforcement experience. Those are a few creative ideas that would be worth trying.

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  114. Thomas says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    has a dangerously light trigger
     
    Did they measure the trigger pull weight? I have not seen it.

    Did they measure the trigger pull weight? I have not seen it.

    From what I heard, the defense attorney wanted the jurors to individually dry fire the gun. They asked to see it again during deliberations.

    A SIG has a trigger pull of 4.4-5.5 pounds in single-action (from what I read, this one, a P239, had a weight of 4.8 to 5.5, smaller guns often have a heavier pull weight). That’s not that light. A Glock (most popular law enforcement pistol in the US) typically has a stock 5.5 pound weight. An M1911 “Government .45″ usually has about a 3.5 pound pull (granted, those are normally carried on safe, “cocked and locked”).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Has it been said if this was a DA/SA, DAO, or a DAK? The DAO has a trigger pull of 10 pounds. The DAK was developed for LEOs and has a trigger pull of 6.5 pounds.
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  115. Hail says: • Website
    @Diversity Heretic
    Two comments:

    1. Over on the Chateau Heartiste blog, there was a scale of Diversity Overload Conditions(Divcon). One of the signs is the breakdown of the jury system. This verdict is an example.

    2. CalExit: Now more than ever.

    2. CalExit: Now more than ever.

    Need full demographic info on jury members.

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  116. @Orwellian State
    He admitted to police that he fired the gun to shoot a seal! No doubt the sleazebag lawyer advised him to change his story, and the jury chose to believe the revised account. Libtards have sunk to a new low.

    From Zerohedge:
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-30/shocking-verdict-san-francisco-jury-acquits-kates-law-victims-killer


    Zarate and his defense team maintained the argument that the suspect found the stolen weapon on the pier that day and it "just fired."

    The gun belonged to a federal Bureau of Land Management ranger and was stolen from his parked car a week earlier.

    The bullet ricocheted on the pier's concrete walkway before it struck Steinle, killing her. Zarate has admitted to shooting Steinle, but says it was an accident.

    Defense attorney Matt Gonzalez said Garcia Zarate found the gun at the pier... but the stories of what happened copntradicted one another...

    He said it was wrapped in cloth, and when Garcia Zarate unwrapped it, the gun accidentally discharged.

    But in a police interrogation, Garcia Zarate admitted to firing the gun, saying he was aiming at a seal.

    He also told police that he stepped on the gun, causing it to fire.
     

    If it ricocheted on the walkway first it does seem like it was an accident.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Olorin
    One of the top rules of lawful firearms ownership and use:

    There are negligent discharges, but there is no such thing as an "accident."

    And do you think if this guy had been a white tourist in a MAGA hat he would have been acquitted for a negligent discharge that killed a SF resident?

    (Not that I believe for one moment that's what happened.)
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  117. @Eagle Eye
    The back story is that San Francisco had REQUESTED that the Obama-era Feds transfer Zarate to SF custody on an ancient warrant for dope peddling (!)

    The dope warrant was then later dismissed, but SF refused to return Zarate to Fed custody under its "sanctuary" policy.

    Most likely, SF officials were paid by local gangs to request transfer of custody from the Feds as an end-run to save Zarate from yet another deportation and/or federal sentence.

    Also, there is likely more to the Steinle murder itself than meets the eye. Either it was a targeted killing for some reason, or the murder of a young woman from out of town was commissioned as part of a shake-down of the city and/or local merchants dependent on local tourism.

    Journalists were specially allowed to interview Zarate in jail where he told them that he had been trying to shoot sea lions (which in itself is, of course, a serious federal offense). Evidently, the brazen misdirection worked.

    There does not appear to be any dispute that the bullet ricocheted off the concrete walkway. That doesn’t seem to fit a murder theory.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Didn't follow the theories about the bullet(s?).

    Of course, defense in a criminal case does not need to prove its case, they can simply spout off to raise "reasonable doubt." For its part, the DA may have been under pressure to flub the case as a thumb in the eye of President Trump. (BTW remember that the previous DA, Kamala Harris, is now the junior U.S. Senator.)

    In any event, Zarate was obviously holding and using a handgun intentionally,Even a SF jury would not believe that he had accidentally "found" the gun under a bench in a busy tourist area, hence the need for the "sea lion" misdirection. (Note that in SF, it's perfectly acceptable for a Mexican mestizo to shoot sea lions. "It's their culture," or something.)

    Perhaps extortion/protection operation gone wrong? Having suffered multiple "removals," Zarate is clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

    , @eah
    That doesn’t seem to fit a murder theory.

    From what I know, the evidence did not fit a charge of "murder" -- he should have been charged and convicted of reckless homicide -- a lot of the outrage was of course due to the fact he was illegal, recently in custody (due to yet another arrest), and despite that allowed back on the street.
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  118. @J.Ross
    We're getting pictures of the jury. This was pure tribalist nullification.

    Has the jury given any interviews? Would be interesting to hear the explanation they give.

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  119. Thomas says:
    @ben tillman
    Just remember that even 50 years ago the DA's office in San Francisco would routinely free black rapists because the white victims, being white, had it coming.

    How much worse must it be now?

    Just remember that even 50 years ago the DA’s office in San Francisco would routinely free black rapists because the white victims, being white, had it coming.

    How much worse must it be now?

    It probably hit its low point in the early 2000s under Terence “Fluffy” Hallinan, a former Communist radical and convicted criminal who was more interested in prosecuting police than criminals, and who had the lowest conviction rate of any DA in California. It got a little better after that, though that’s obviously not saying much.

    San Francisco is a weird (though not surprising) case in that the Public Defender’s office is considered the legal “varsity squad” compared to the DA’s office, with ample resources, political connections and the lion’s share of the limelight (it’s the only public defender’s office in California whose head is elected). Matt Gonzalez, Garcia Zarate’s attorney, is the chief attorney in the office, and was previously the president of the Board of Supervisors (San Francisco’s powerful city and county legislative authority), as well as Ralph Nader’s Green Party running mate in 2008.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    the Public Defender’s office is considered the legal “varsity squad” compared to the DA’s office, with ample resources, political connections and the lion’s share of the limelight
     
    That's a big chunk of the thing here: the resources brought to bear on behalf of the illegal alien. An average guy on the street can't get anything close to this.
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  120. @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    It’s been a while since I studied the law of homicide, but I recall that gross recklessness was usually enough to satisfy the “malice aforethought,” mens rea requirement to sustain a charge of murder. Firing a gun in the general direction of people seems to me grossly reckless. Ricochets are usually dangerous to the extent they continue downrange, so the murder’s pistol must have been ponted in the general direction of Kate Steinle. An outrageous verdict, but, sadly, not an unexpected one.

    Didn’t the San Francisco area once have something called the Committee of Vigilance?

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    • Replies: @william munny
    In most states, anyone who shoots and kills someone unintentionally could be charged and found guilty of manslaughter because firing a gun is inherently dangerous, so it is always grossly reckless (or whatever the local phrase is) to do so unless at a range or hunting. Usually they are charged, unless it is a cleaning accident or something.
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  121. Patriot says:

    Des anyone know what the shooter did immediately after firing the shot/shots? Did he come to the wounded woman and express grief or did he try to flee?

    We already know that he gave at least 3 different stories. We need more facts, here

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  122. Anonym says:
    @Bragadocious
    Poor Kate. If her last name had just been Stein, the media would have been all over SF to put this guy away forever -- and they would have gotten their way.

    Poor Kate. If her last name had just been Stein, the media would have been all over SF to put this guy away forever — and they would have gotten their way.

    I guess no one figured out that Ron Goldman was Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    Actually, in Ron Goldman's case...you may recall, plenty of Jewish activists in yarmulkes were picketing outside the courthouse in LA. This is one of those "memory hole" things but I remember it well. They were specifically upset that a Jew had been killed, though I suspect they had no opinion on Nicole's slaying. In normal circumstances, their pressure would have mattered, except that it was OJ, and he had hired Barry Scheck, the smartest Jew in the room, as his attorney.
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  123. Eagle Eye says:
    @Opinionator
    There does not appear to be any dispute that the bullet ricocheted off the concrete walkway. That doesn't seem to fit a murder theory.

    Didn’t follow the theories about the bullet(s?).

    Of course, defense in a criminal case does not need to prove its case, they can simply spout off to raise “reasonable doubt.” For its part, the DA may have been under pressure to flub the case as a thumb in the eye of President Trump. (BTW remember that the previous DA, Kamala Harris, is now the junior U.S. Senator.)

    In any event, Zarate was obviously holding and using a handgun intentionally,Even a SF jury would not believe that he had accidentally “found” the gun under a bench in a busy tourist area, hence the need for the “sea lion” misdirection. (Note that in SF, it’s perfectly acceptable for a Mexican mestizo to shoot sea lions. “It’s their culture,” or something.)

    Perhaps extortion/protection operation gone wrong? Having suffered multiple “removals,” Zarate is clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

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  124. Requiescat In Pace

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    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    In San Francisco, the scales pendulate from the middle finger.
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  125. eah says:
    @Pat Casey
    Not me. That's kinda weird.

    Not you what? — the tweet is sarcasm — read the one he is answering.

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  126. Bubba says:
    @BenKenobi
    If a person is nullifying a jury it's not because they're gullible. It's a deliberate political act (whatever the politics in question may be).

    Yes, you are correct. And I am a terrible editor when writing in an upset mood. :-)

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  127. Olorin says:
    @Opinionator
    If it ricocheted on the walkway first it does seem like it was an accident.

    One of the top rules of lawful firearms ownership and use:

    There are negligent discharges, but there is no such thing as an “accident.”

    And do you think if this guy had been a white tourist in a MAGA hat he would have been acquitted for a negligent discharge that killed a SF resident?

    (Not that I believe for one moment that’s what happened.)

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    • Replies: @CMC
    Agree. And this is what I’m saying: Why wasn’t he charged with negligent discharge too? I understand it might only be a 3 year max, but still. Why not charge it too? What were they afraid of? Inconsistent verdict problems (like if the jury came back with both 2nd degree murder —implying aiming, and negligent discharge —implying no aiming)?
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  128. Here the defense liars make their political statements to the press. Watch it all if you want to see how outrageous they are:

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    • Replies: @Hail
    The short-haired one is Francisco Ugarte (ctrl-f above in this thread), Immigrant Supremacist, who attacks Trump supporters and White people in his remarks.

    The long-haired one is Matt Gonzalez (Wiki) a longtime Leftist ideologue and running mate of Ralph Nader in 2008.

    Gonzalez makes an implied threat against Trump in his remarks. It was an Impeach-and-Lock-Him-Up thing (presumably for the wacky Russia conspiracy theory). Gonzalez graciously concedes that Trump and his people, when on trial, "may avail themselves of the presumption of innocence, too." Very gracious of Mr. Gonzalez...
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  129. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Whiskey
    It's never ever ok to be White. Not ever. White = no rights.

    Do you still think defending Israel is the key to the defense of Western Civ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    It's not the key but it is a barometer. If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.
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  130. eah says:
    @Eagle Eye
    The back story is that San Francisco had REQUESTED that the Obama-era Feds transfer Zarate to SF custody on an ancient warrant for dope peddling (!)

    The dope warrant was then later dismissed, but SF refused to return Zarate to Fed custody under its "sanctuary" policy.

    Most likely, SF officials were paid by local gangs to request transfer of custody from the Feds as an end-run to save Zarate from yet another deportation and/or federal sentence.

    Also, there is likely more to the Steinle murder itself than meets the eye. Either it was a targeted killing for some reason, or the murder of a young woman from out of town was commissioned as part of a shake-down of the city and/or local merchants dependent on local tourism.

    Journalists were specially allowed to interview Zarate in jail where he told them that he had been trying to shoot sea lions (which in itself is, of course, a serious federal offense). Evidently, the brazen misdirection worked.

    The verdict was not a surprise.

    more to the Steinle murder itself than meets the eye

    That’s far-fetched.

    SF officials

    They’re all scum — government in CA exists to serve ‘people of color’ and aberrant sexuality — your safety be damned.

    Read More
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  131. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Orwellian State
    Not even manslaughter, utterly shocking. You know damn well if the shooter had been a white man, he'd be found guilty of every charge. Every single one of the jurors need to be exposed and called to task.

    “For Donald Trump, we were just what he needed — beautiful girl, San Francisco, illegal immigrant, arrested a million times, a violent crime and yadda, yadda, yadda,” her mother, Liz Sullivan, told The San Francisco Chronicle. “We were the perfect storm for that man.”
     
    The parents, being from the Bay Area, sounded like die hard liberals. Maybe they'll now ask for donations to be made to the support illegal immigrants fund, like the parents of that German girl who was raped and killed by a Muslim refugee.

    . You know damn well if the shooter had been a white man, he’d be found guilty of every charge.

    A white guy with a non-white victim would have also had to endure a potential ‘hate crime’ charge. It might not have gotten to the court stage, but immediately after the event we would have heard that the “police are also looking into whether or not a hate crime was committed.”

    Read More
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  132. Eagle Eye says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    Trying to shoot A but accidentally hitting and killing B constitutes murder rather than mere manslaughter under the theory of “transferred malice.”

    Perhaps Zarate could still be found guilty under Federal law of shooting a protected mammal (but “only” hitting a human) under a similar theory of “transferred malice.”

    Read More
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  133. eah says:
    @Opinionator
    There does not appear to be any dispute that the bullet ricocheted off the concrete walkway. That doesn't seem to fit a murder theory.

    That doesn’t seem to fit a murder theory.

    From what I know, the evidence did not fit a charge of “murder” — he should have been charged and convicted of reckless homicide — a lot of the outrage was of course due to the fact he was illegal, recently in custody (due to yet another arrest), and despite that allowed back on the street.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/mikeenochsback/status/936507805049196544
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  134. Thomas says:
    @Hail
    What can the federal government do practically against San Francisco?

    What can the federal government do practically against San Francisco?

    One thing they certainly ought to do after this case is to refuse to hand over anyone pending deportation from federal custody to any sanctuary city or state. Someone pointed out here that Garcia Zarate had been in federal prison, and was pending deportation, but was sent to San Francisco on an old drug warrant (that was promptly dismissed and he was set loose without any notice to the feds). The policy ought to be to keep such individuals in federal custody, and, if they are to appear in a state or local proceeding, they’re brought to court and then promptly returned to a federal lock up, where they’ll stay pending the case. (Make it even better and charge the sanctuary cities a per diem rate to keep them in custody.)

    One thing I would like to see is ICE condoning and soliciting unofficial cooperation with police in sanctuary cities, state and local policy be damned. If sanctuary cities want to ignore federal law, nothing says the feds shouldn’t try to do the same regarding sanctuary policies. Cops in the same cities talk and cooperate all the time, even across jurisdictions, and nothing would effectively prevent local cops from surreptitiously “dropping a dime” to ICE about what they know. Maybe also see about coming up with a “special deputy” program, similar to the Section 287(g) program (allowing local law enforcement agencies to be deputized to enforce immigration law), but on an individual level, to allow local cops to do TAD with ICE off the clock. If their departments try to fire them, litigate it through their union proceedings and the courts, and offer DOJ support in doing so, on the argument that trying to fire someone for cooperating with federal law is wrongful termination. And if that fails, just poach them and offer them jobs with ICE, where they can bring along their local law enforcement experience. Those are a few creative ideas that would be worth trying.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag
    Good ideas. I would consider those a minimum. I think the feds should carpet bomb with official misconduct charges; pull federal funds from ALL programs; RICO; civil fines, penalties, and property forfeiture.

    At the moment, I think they should declare martial law and roll the B-52s.
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  135. Hail says: • Website
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Here the defense liars make their political statements to the press. Watch it all if you want to see how outrageous they are:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8xp6ayHvlc

    The short-haired one is Francisco Ugarte (ctrl-f above in this thread), Immigrant Supremacist, who attacks Trump supporters and White people in his remarks.

    The long-haired one is Matt Gonzalez (Wiki) a longtime Leftist ideologue and running mate of Ralph Nader in 2008.

    Gonzalez makes an implied threat against Trump in his remarks. It was an Impeach-and-Lock-Him-Up thing (presumably for the wacky Russia conspiracy theory). Gonzalez graciously concedes that Trump and his people, when on trial, “may avail themselves of the presumption of innocence, too.” Very gracious of Mr. Gonzalez…

    Read More
    • Replies: @CCZ
    Matt makes Jose Ines Garcia Zarate (AKA Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez) the victim and Matt certainly goes far far beyond the usual public defender responsibility to represent an indigent client and ensure a fair trial.

    "For those who want to whip up fear of immigrants, it is politically expedient to cast Lopez Sanchez as dangerous. But the truth is he’s never previously been charged with a crime of violence. He is a simple man with a second-grade education who has survived many hardships. He came to the U.S. repeatedly because extreme poverty is the norm in many parts of Mexico. He risked going to jail so that he could perform a menial job that could feed him. Each time, he came to the U.S. because American employers openly encourage illegal immigration to fill the jobs U.S. citizens don’t want.

    Passing Kate’s Law as a response to this tragedy is the legal equivalent of invading Iraq in response to 911 — a preying upon emotions to further a pre-existing agenda. It is a cynical anti-immigrant effort unrelated to Steinle’s death that in no way honors her memory."

    Matt Gonzalez, SF Chronicle July 4, 2017
     
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  136. jim jones says:
    @Thomas

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two “explanations”?
     
    Remember that a defense attorney only needs to raise reasonable doubt. Ultimately it's the prosecutors who have to prove their case beyond that, and get a unanimous verdict. And, in this case, the defense attorneys were able to raise claims like he didn't understand, there were translation issues, etc. One issue is that there was physical evidence of a ricochet, the bullet hit the ground and then ricocheted into Steinle.

    When I did Jury Service here in London I seemed to be the only person who understood that the Prosecution had to prove their case. Most of the other Jurors believed that the Defendant had to prove his innocence.

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  137. Did the 4 who tortured that mentally retard white guy do any jail time? Because that story has gone down the memory whole.

    For the optimists… look at South Africa. Whites will sit back and let themselves be exterminated. Well to be exact, white leftists will push down everyone else in order to get everyone murdered. Pol Pot managed to go through 1 in 3 before the Vietnamese took him down; I wonder how many will survive in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CCZ
    "Authorities said they pursued hate crime charges because of the racial remarks, and because of the victim’s disability. Hill, Cooper and the Covington sisters are all currently in custody. Cooper and Tanishia Covington are being held without bond, according to Cook County inmate records, while Hill and Brittany Covington are being held in lieu of $900,000 and $500,000 respectively."
    November 29, 2017 article
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  138. CCZ says:
    @Hail
    The short-haired one is Francisco Ugarte (ctrl-f above in this thread), Immigrant Supremacist, who attacks Trump supporters and White people in his remarks.

    The long-haired one is Matt Gonzalez (Wiki) a longtime Leftist ideologue and running mate of Ralph Nader in 2008.

    Gonzalez makes an implied threat against Trump in his remarks. It was an Impeach-and-Lock-Him-Up thing (presumably for the wacky Russia conspiracy theory). Gonzalez graciously concedes that Trump and his people, when on trial, "may avail themselves of the presumption of innocence, too." Very gracious of Mr. Gonzalez...

    Matt makes Jose Ines Garcia Zarate (AKA Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez) the victim and Matt certainly goes far far beyond the usual public defender responsibility to represent an indigent client and ensure a fair trial.

    “For those who want to whip up fear of immigrants, it is politically expedient to cast Lopez Sanchez as dangerous. But the truth is he’s never previously been charged with a crime of violence. He is a simple man with a second-grade education who has survived many hardships. He came to the U.S. repeatedly because extreme poverty is the norm in many parts of Mexico. He risked going to jail so that he could perform a menial job that could feed him. Each time, he came to the U.S. because American employers openly encourage illegal immigration to fill the jobs U.S. citizens don’t want.

    Passing Kate’s Law as a response to this tragedy is the legal equivalent of invading Iraq in response to 911 — a preying upon emotions to further a pre-existing agenda. It is a cynical anti-immigrant effort unrelated to Steinle’s death that in no way honors her memory.”

    Matt Gonzalez, SF Chronicle July 4, 2017

    Read More
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  139. Olorin says:

    Jesus, where even to start here.

    Somehow an actual killing of an actual woman has been blamed on a gun and the actual killer is blameless because he’s stupid and serial lawbreaker.

    And in the public defender’s view, “nothing could have stopped this from happening” other than the gun not existing. For the gun was the agent here.

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/2017/07/07/juan-francisco-lopez-sanchez/

    The fact that Matt Gonzalez (the defense lawyer) is in the middle of all this deserves closer attention in my book. SF is a sewage tank, and he’s one of its scariest floaters imo. He’s smart, tenacious, from a rich family, and a vehement socialist…whose ability to manifest genuine human emotion for individuals was questioned by some when I lived in SF.

    In other words, a classic high-minded socialist whose antipathy to regular people is masked by tsunamis of lofty ideational abstractions.

    But he also has a long record of using illegals to disrupt and cancel out the activities of law abiding citizens. And he is damn good at gauging how to manipulate people to do what he wants.

    In this case I understand he brought the jury’s deliberations to closure after much backing and forthing by having them handle the gun. It might be hard for some of you to comprehend what a traumatic experience that might be for your typical SF jury member. But bear in mind that one of the top rules of socialism is: trauma = suggestibility.

    Not surprisingly for people of his socialistic inclinations, he comes from money. His daddy was an executive at Brown and Williamson (the global tobacco company), later an exporter of medical equipment to Mexico. Matt graduated from Columbia in the ’80s with a double major in poli sci and comparative lit. Then took his law degree at Stanford.

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/matt-gonzalez-bio/

    He has long supported the right of noncitizens and illegals to vote, which is to say cancel out the votes of legal citizens. And he has forever sought to position himself on, and find legalistic justifications after the fact for, “the cutting edge.” He sees the law not as a limit to power, but as a razor slashing its way to it.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/21/local/me-vote21

    The State
    S.F. Voters to Decide if Noncitizens Can Vote
    Ballot measure would affect only school board elections. A legal challenge is expected.
    July 21, 2004|Robert Hollis, Marisa Lagos and Megan Garvey | Special to The Times

    SAN FRANCISCO — Testing state law for the second time this year, San Francisco city leaders approved a controversial ballot proposal Tuesday that could allow noncitizens to vote in school board elections.

    The proposal, the first in the state but not the nation, would permit any adult with a child in public school — parent, guardian or caretaker — to vote regardless of citizenship status. Backers of the measure acknowledged that it probably would face legal challenges since state law limits voting to citizens. But they said a local exemption was allowable because San Francisco is a charter city that can set its own laws.

    “Every time you’re on the cutting edge of any issue you’re going to have legal issues,” said Supervisor Matt Gonzalez, a Green Party member who introduced the proposal. “This body has taken a strong position on things like gay marriage, domestic partnership…. I don’t think this is any different.”

    He writes about himself in great detail:

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/

    Also glues strips of paper and trash on canvases, making him an Artist.

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/reviews/

    See also:

    http://www.keywiki.org/San_Francisco_Democratic_Socialists_of_America

    http://keywiki.org/Matt_Gonzalez

    http://ballot-access.org/2008/02/28/nader-picks-matt-gonzales-for-vp-former-san-francisco-board-of-supervisors-president/

    https://www.socialistalternative.org/2013/10/22/jill-stein-and-matt-gonzalez-a-call-to-action-in-support-of-two-independent-candidates/

    And perhaps most disturbingly:

    https://www.pinterest.com/themattgonzalez/chinese-propoganda-posters/

    Sorry to dump…but I don’t know where to begin introducing the uninitiated to this character, a classic infiltrator in disguise. I hope that this appalling incident can serve as a litmus for just how dangerous are the Matt Gonzalezes of the world…even as they point at Donald J. Trump as Hitler to further their own pursuit of political power.

    Read More
    • Agree: eah, CCZ, lavoisier
    • Replies: @CCZ
    Matt Gonzalez, leading us to our multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist future with law, politics, and art.

    Gonzalez was born in McAllen, Texas in 1965 to a Mexican mother, Oralia, and Mexican-American father, Mateo, but spent the first five years of his life in San Juan, Puerto Rico, where he and his older sister spent days playing on the beach. His father, Mateo Gonzalez, was originally a salesman and then division chief for tobacco giant Brown & Williamson.

    Interesting review of his “collage art” and its political origins and “cosmopolitan” “international” and “non-provincial” messages. He appears, from the reviewer's comments, to have a very strong connection with his Mexican heritage and, and from his own words, an adoration of Mexico's history of “resistance” to wealthier foreign nations.


    “A Mexican current flows through Gonzalez’ work. His mother is a native of Jalisco, and his parents started an import/export medical equipment business in the US that primarily dealt with Mexican companies, and he spent much of his youth in the city of McAllen, Texas just nine miles north of the US-Mexican border. His cosmopolitan perspective on the present global financial crisis is particularly Mexican-American in character; he sees with unusual clarity the ways in which late capitalism positions modern nation states at various stages in the development of mechanized industry, and he sees this development in terms of Mexico’s recorded past. Gonzalez writes: “The Mexicans of the 19th century fought against what many developing nations face today – mounting debt and IMF / World Bank policies that constrain their ability to properly care for their citizens. As these countries struggle to make payments on debt, or just cover interest payments, their internal economic problems are exacerbated rather than relieved…. More than anything, Cinco de Mayo commemorates a developing nation’s resistance to the lending practices of wealthier foreign nations.” This Mexican current carries with it not only history but aesthetics as well; in a piece he wrote about the painter Gustavo Ramos Rivera, Gonzalez articulates by the way his own feeling for figuration, medium, palette and contrast – again non-provincial and openly international in its leanings”
    http://aguyshouldknow.com/a-defiant-beauty-matt-gonzalez/ 2013
     
    Gonzalez said about his childhood in South Texas:

    "The Mexican-American–Latino–Chicano culture in California is different than my experience in Texas. I grew up in a town that is majority Mexican and Mexican-American. In McAllen, we didn't refer to ourselves as Latinos or Chicanos. We referred to ourselves as Mexican. There's a different feel in that border area."
    http://greenpolitics.wikia.com/wiki/Matt_Gonzalez
     
    Multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist or quisling and fifth-columnist?
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  140. Rod1963 says:
    @eah
    He’s undocumented, that makes him holy.

    No, the fact he's not white makes him "holy" -- an oppressed 'person of color', another victim of 'white supremacy' -- illegal Whites, eg an Irish overstayer, may also benefit from sanctuary policies, but these policies weren't designed for them -- do you really think the same dynamic would be present here were her killer white?

    Haven’t you been paying attention to the news?

    Apparently you haven't.

    Spot on.

    It’s all about protecting the person of color. Come on Steve no white felon with a rap sheet a mile long, shooting another white in SF or any liberal city would ever be given their walking papers. And that stolen gun from the BLM would certainly get him a visit from the ATF and some federal time.

    It’s all about protecting ethnics and prosecuting a war on whites that is getting worse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    And that stolen gun from the BLM would certainly get him a visit from the ATF and some federal time.
     
    Indeed. The Feds will throw you in stir for lying to federal investigators, despite the fact that the Feds are permitted to lie to you all they want. I'm sure that even possessing a gun stolen from a federal agent is a felony, even if you yourself were not the person who stole it.

    The Feds are dedicated to the principle that no one crosses them, even a little, without feeling some hurt.
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  141. eah says:
    @eah
    That doesn’t seem to fit a murder theory.

    From what I know, the evidence did not fit a charge of "murder" -- he should have been charged and convicted of reckless homicide -- a lot of the outrage was of course due to the fact he was illegal, recently in custody (due to yet another arrest), and despite that allowed back on the street.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    https://twitter.com/AvengedCoach/status/936397031211520001
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  142. eah says:

    ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’ writ large — (((their))) alarmism is despicable.

    Also here:

    I had the same feeling – again – visiting the Anne Frank House and Resistance Museum in Amsterdam last week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Yeah, but they're right. Nazi German power began with the SA being the only group to fight against Communist and Socialist anarchy-tyranny on the streets. Defending people attacked by the left legitimized them in enough minds.

    What those commenters cannot see is that it wasn't moderate right-wing Germans who backed the National Socialists. What they should be backing is an immediate crackdown on left wing violence, or the still-large white population will respond. If the left wants to win, they need to control the violence for 30years until it's completely too late to change things.
    , @bomag

    one weird unsettling development after another, until they were past the point of no return
     
    Funneling immigrants into the country at today's level and absolving them of their crimes is pretty unsettling.

    Our political opponents constantly harping on Nazi analogies 24/7 is pretty unsettling.
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  143. @27 year old

    This is like the OJ verdict v2, except of course that it’ll be under a media blackout.
     
    Not if Trump tweets about it

    Trump has tweeted, and zero on BBC radio news, which was in fainting mode after his Britain First retweets.

    If the races of perp and victim were reversed, BBC would be running live interviews from SF 24/7.

    Read More
    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    Honestly, was hoping for more of a Twitter chimpout from our Shitposter-in-Chief.
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  144. @YetAnotherAnon
    Trump has tweeted, and zero on BBC radio news, which was in fainting mode after his Britain First retweets.

    If the races of perp and victim were reversed, BBC would be running live interviews from SF 24/7.

    Honestly, was hoping for more of a Twitter chimpout from our Shitposter-in-Chief.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie
    "Honestly, was hoping for more of a Twitter chimpout from our Shitposter-in-Chief."

    I wasn't. He's already being lambasted by the Isle of the Dead's PM.

    I thought Trump's initial tweet was extremely effective. He said the verdict was "disgraceful" and added, “No wonder the people of our Country are so angry with Illegal Immigration.” thereby aligning himself with the people who elected him. He gave his supporters a voice and kept from looking like a lone hothead. The left will tear into him anyway for his tweets but as someone totally opposed to the open borders agenda, I liked it and think it nudges fence sitters in the right direction.

    My conservative Facebook friends were furious when the verdict was announced. They didn't wait for him to tweet his reaction. They had plenty. to say for themselves from the git go.

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  145. CCZ says:
    @Olorin
    Jesus, where even to start here.

    Somehow an actual killing of an actual woman has been blamed on a gun and the actual killer is blameless because he's stupid and serial lawbreaker.

    And in the public defender's view, "nothing could have stopped this from happening" other than the gun not existing. For the gun was the agent here.

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/2017/07/07/juan-francisco-lopez-sanchez/

    The fact that Matt Gonzalez (the defense lawyer) is in the middle of all this deserves closer attention in my book. SF is a sewage tank, and he's one of its scariest floaters imo. He's smart, tenacious, from a rich family, and a vehement socialist...whose ability to manifest genuine human emotion for individuals was questioned by some when I lived in SF.

    In other words, a classic high-minded socialist whose antipathy to regular people is masked by tsunamis of lofty ideational abstractions.

    But he also has a long record of using illegals to disrupt and cancel out the activities of law abiding citizens. And he is damn good at gauging how to manipulate people to do what he wants.

    In this case I understand he brought the jury's deliberations to closure after much backing and forthing by having them handle the gun. It might be hard for some of you to comprehend what a traumatic experience that might be for your typical SF jury member. But bear in mind that one of the top rules of socialism is: trauma = suggestibility.

    Not surprisingly for people of his socialistic inclinations, he comes from money. His daddy was an executive at Brown and Williamson (the global tobacco company), later an exporter of medical equipment to Mexico. Matt graduated from Columbia in the '80s with a double major in poli sci and comparative lit. Then took his law degree at Stanford.

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/matt-gonzalez-bio/

    He has long supported the right of noncitizens and illegals to vote, which is to say cancel out the votes of legal citizens. And he has forever sought to position himself on, and find legalistic justifications after the fact for, "the cutting edge." He sees the law not as a limit to power, but as a razor slashing its way to it.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/21/local/me-vote21


    The State
    S.F. Voters to Decide if Noncitizens Can Vote
    Ballot measure would affect only school board elections. A legal challenge is expected.
    July 21, 2004|Robert Hollis, Marisa Lagos and Megan Garvey | Special to The Times

    SAN FRANCISCO — Testing state law for the second time this year, San Francisco city leaders approved a controversial ballot proposal Tuesday that could allow noncitizens to vote in school board elections.

    The proposal, the first in the state but not the nation, would permit any adult with a child in public school -- parent, guardian or caretaker -- to vote regardless of citizenship status. Backers of the measure acknowledged that it probably would face legal challenges since state law limits voting to citizens. But they said a local exemption was allowable because San Francisco is a charter city that can set its own laws.

    "Every time you're on the cutting edge of any issue you're going to have legal issues," said Supervisor Matt Gonzalez, a Green Party member who introduced the proposal. "This body has taken a strong position on things like gay marriage, domestic partnership.... I don't think this is any different."
     

    He writes about himself in great detail:

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/

    Also glues strips of paper and trash on canvases, making him an Artist.

    https://themattgonzalezreader.wordpress.com/reviews/

    See also:

    http://www.keywiki.org/San_Francisco_Democratic_Socialists_of_America
    http://keywiki.org/Matt_Gonzalez

    http://ballot-access.org/2008/02/28/nader-picks-matt-gonzales-for-vp-former-san-francisco-board-of-supervisors-president/

    https://www.socialistalternative.org/2013/10/22/jill-stein-and-matt-gonzalez-a-call-to-action-in-support-of-two-independent-candidates/

    And perhaps most disturbingly:

    https://www.pinterest.com/themattgonzalez/chinese-propoganda-posters/

    Sorry to dump...but I don't know where to begin introducing the uninitiated to this character, a classic infiltrator in disguise. I hope that this appalling incident can serve as a litmus for just how dangerous are the Matt Gonzalezes of the world...even as they point at Donald J. Trump as Hitler to further their own pursuit of political power.

    Matt Gonzalez, leading us to our multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist future with law, politics, and art.

    Gonzalez was born in McAllen, Texas in 1965 to a Mexican mother, Oralia, and Mexican-American father, Mateo, but spent the first five years of his life in San Juan, Puerto Rico, where he and his older sister spent days playing on the beach. His father, Mateo Gonzalez, was originally a salesman and then division chief for tobacco giant Brown & Williamson.

    Interesting review of his “collage art” and its political origins and “cosmopolitan” “international” and “non-provincial” messages. He appears, from the reviewer’s comments, to have a very strong connection with his Mexican heritage and, and from his own words, an adoration of Mexico’s history of “resistance” to wealthier foreign nations.

    “A Mexican current flows through Gonzalez’ work. His mother is a native of Jalisco, and his parents started an import/export medical equipment business in the US that primarily dealt with Mexican companies, and he spent much of his youth in the city of McAllen, Texas just nine miles north of the US-Mexican border. His cosmopolitan perspective on the present global financial crisis is particularly Mexican-American in character; he sees with unusual clarity the ways in which late capitalism positions modern nation states at various stages in the development of mechanized industry, and he sees this development in terms of Mexico’s recorded past. Gonzalez writes: “The Mexicans of the 19th century fought against what many developing nations face today – mounting debt and IMF / World Bank policies that constrain their ability to properly care for their citizens. As these countries struggle to make payments on debt, or just cover interest payments, their internal economic problems are exacerbated rather than relieved…. More than anything, Cinco de Mayo commemorates a developing nation’s resistance to the lending practices of wealthier foreign nations.” This Mexican current carries with it not only history but aesthetics as well; in a piece he wrote about the painter Gustavo Ramos Rivera, Gonzalez articulates by the way his own feeling for figuration, medium, palette and contrast – again non-provincial and openly international in its leanings”
    http://aguyshouldknow.com/a-defiant-beauty-matt-gonzalez/ 2013

    Gonzalez said about his childhood in South Texas:

    “The Mexican-American–Latino–Chicano culture in California is different than my experience in Texas. I grew up in a town that is majority Mexican and Mexican-American. In McAllen, we didn’t refer to ourselves as Latinos or Chicanos. We referred to ourselves as Mexican. There’s a different feel in that border area.”

    http://greenpolitics.wikia.com/wiki/Matt_Gonzalez

    Multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist or quisling and fifth-columnist?

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    Multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist or quisling and fifth-columnist?
     
    Can't he be both?
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  146. Realist says:

    This is no surprise from San Francisco.

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  147. Pericles says:
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Lol, that’s indeed a classic ‘liberal’.

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  148. Pericles says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that’s okay too?

    Verdict of the Ninth Circuit: Both acts are okay.

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  149. Pericles says:

    SEA LION SHOOTER WALKS – SIXTH TIME IS THE CHARM

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  150. Dr. X says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.
     
    Moreover, if he really just picked up a package off the ground that happened to be a pistol that then discharged, why did they return a guilty verdict on a weapons possession charge? The jury's action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?

    The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    In other words, jury nullification. Shades of the Butcher of Brentwood.

    Wanna bet on how long it'll take before this dude commits another crime?
    , @Mr. Anon

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.
     
    I figured there had to be some diversity on the jury, but - yes - that woundn't surprise me either. There is a reason that there is a special category all to itself of "San Francisco Liberal".
    , @Thea
    Nope Hispanics

    https://mobile.twitter.com/WolffieJames/status/936429042198286336

    They hate us.
    , @Prof. Woland
    The most interesting part of the OJ trial was the jury selection. Jo-Ellen Dimitrias won that case before it even started. I not only want to know more about the racial / ethnic / sexual orientation (weirdness) of the jury but what the defense's tactics were in how that jury came about. The rest is academic.
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  151. @Diversity Heretic
    It's been a while since I studied the law of homicide, but I recall that gross recklessness was usually enough to satisfy the "malice aforethought," mens rea requirement to sustain a charge of murder. Firing a gun in the general direction of people seems to me grossly reckless. Ricochets are usually dangerous to the extent they continue downrange, so the murder's pistol must have been ponted in the general direction of Kate Steinle. An outrageous verdict, but, sadly, not an unexpected one.

    Didn't the San Francisco area once have something called the Committee of Vigilance?

    In most states, anyone who shoots and kills someone unintentionally could be charged and found guilty of manslaughter because firing a gun is inherently dangerous, so it is always grossly reckless (or whatever the local phrase is) to do so unless at a range or hunting. Usually they are charged, unless it is a cleaning accident or something.

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  152. BB753 says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Service firearms in California have to survive a “drop test,” that is, you have to be able to drop them without them going off.
     
    Yes, a cursory web-search reveals that the SIG P239 has a firing-pin block, so that some pressure on the trigger is required to discharge it.

    Since guns are icky, probably nobody in the San Francisco D.A.'s office knows anything about them or cares to learn.

    How could an expensive firearm like a SIG P239 just be lying around in the floor of a pier? And a gun stolen from a ranger, no less!

    There’s something fishy here beyond the acquittal. Maybe the gun had been used to commit another crime before Steinle’s shooting, with or without the knowledge or consent of the ranger. So my guess is the establishment is trying to hide something beyond the Zarate case.

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    ... the establishment is trying to hide something beyond the Zarate case.
     
    Quite possible. Zarate's very presence in SF was most likely procured by a gang working with the city. It is not a great leap to suspect that Zarate recruited to do a job, perhaps as "payment" for being saved from federal custody and deportation.

    Perhaps the murder was not random at all, or was part of a shake-down operation aimed at local merchants. The entire PR management immediately after the incident seems to have been highly unorthodox. A TV camera team was given full access to the defendant in jail (where he first shared his "sea lion" theory). No defense attorney would permit such lunacy in a regular case.

    The news coverage of the case seemed staged and unnatural from the beginning and was probably choreographed.

    , @BB753
    Here's my guess. Zarate was hired to dispose of the gun, used for some criminal act we don't know about, but got drunk and figured he could have some fun shooting at the sea lions or in the air, Mexican-style, before tossing the gun into the harbor. And he couldn't shoot straight. Of course, it's still manslaughter, by definition.
    Now, I think this illegal POS was given a lenient sentence - to say the least- to keep his mouth shut. Because somebody up the line messed up real good.
    What do you think?
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  153. Tiny Duck says:

    Hey you guys want more guns. This is what you will get

    Good in the jury for making a statement and not pandering to white supremacy

    Want justice? Make laws where guns cannot be obtained by homeless people. Open the borders so that there is no racism

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  154. @bgates
    You know damn well if the shooter had been a white man, he’d be found guilty of every charge.
    ...
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions.

    A lot of Californians would want to bring back the death penalty and retroactively convict a white guy who told police he'd been shooting at sea lions, even if no bullet ever touched a mammal of any kind.

    A lot of Californians would want to bring back the death penalty and retroactively convict a white guy who told police he’d been shooting at sea lions, even if no bullet ever touched a mammal of any kind.

    Hey, we’re all mammals here too, so watch those microagressions .. but seriously, that is a really good point that I hadn’t thought of until your comment. Even if you were to mention thinking about shooting at some sea lines to your average white San Franciscan, you’d know he (probably she) would never speak to you again.

    The treehuggers will let anything ruinous to America slide, just as the Sierra Club decided 20 years ago that talking about the environmental problem of too many people is a big no-no. That one was about the money to begin with, but once the cntrl-left takes over, all the real environmental/conservation stuff takes a back seat to the gaining of POWER. It’s just about power. I mean, the USSR was not a treehuggers paradise, to be generous.

    So, power of the cntrl-left and dieversity over sea mammals, even the cute ones… even the cute land mammals that end up in an early grave.

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  155. Poke646,0 says:

    I bet that murdered woman would agree with and even be proud of her fellow citizens verdict! She’s smiling down from heaven thrilled with the magnanimity of her fellow Americans.

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  156. @Steve Sailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0vkKy504U

    Yeah, I remember getting driven around the Gay Bay Area, through the city, across the Golden Gate to Muir Woods, etc. with some relatives in the 1980′s. It was still a beautiful place, even then, and my Uncle, though not the type to have been a hippie, was singing along with the radio to this song. It’s enough to make you become a hippie, if only for a week or two.

    “What have you done to our fair sister?” asked the yet-to-overdose Jim Morrison. I ask that to the white lefty Californians that have ruined a former Paradise. Your good intentions have come to this, the ruination of the best land and the best society the world had yet seen. Screw all of you – just stay there, at least, and leave the rest of us alone.

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  157. Eagle Eye says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge.

    Most likely, the prosecution in the original Zimmerman case was quietly instructed by the Obama administration to work for an acquittal to (1) help rile up more low-info voters for the Democratic Party and (2) to avoid a defense motion to set aside a guilty verdict by reason of blatant interference by Barry himself. Even courts-martial have granted such motions where higher-ups in the chain of command got too involved in the outcome of a prosecution.

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  158. Eagle Eye says:
    @BB753
    How could an expensive firearm like a SIG P239 just be lying around in the floor of a pier? And a gun stolen from a ranger, no less!

    There's something fishy here beyond the acquittal. Maybe the gun had been used to commit another crime before Steinle's shooting, with or without the knowledge or consent of the ranger. So my guess is the establishment is trying to hide something beyond the Zarate case.

    … the establishment is trying to hide something beyond the Zarate case.

    Quite possible. Zarate’s very presence in SF was most likely procured by a gang working with the city. It is not a great leap to suspect that Zarate recruited to do a job, perhaps as “payment” for being saved from federal custody and deportation.

    Perhaps the murder was not random at all, or was part of a shake-down operation aimed at local merchants. The entire PR management immediately after the incident seems to have been highly unorthodox. A TV camera team was given full access to the defendant in jail (where he first shared his “sea lion” theory). No defense attorney would permit such lunacy in a regular case.

    The news coverage of the case seemed staged and unnatural from the beginning and was probably choreographed.

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  159. bomag says:
    @Impolitic
    It's obscene that this guy was in our country, and he's a lowlife who shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets of any country, but it's not implausible that he never intended to assault anyone, that this was indeed an accident. I'm not angry with the jury, I'm angry with our immigration system.

    but it’s not implausible that he never intended to assault anyone, that this was indeed an accident

    It seems clear he acted in a reckless manner, which carries culpability.

    But we can always imagine more doubt, like coming up with a smaller or larger number.

    Application of law mainly hinges on what is reasonable: what is reasonable doubt? what is a reasonable time frame for a speedy trial? Our sense of what is reasonable is heading off into the weeds.

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  160. bomag says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    1. A felon is in possession a firearm. This is a crime.

    2. The firearm he possesses is a stolen firearm. Possession of a stolen firearm, by anybody, is another crime.

    3. A shot from the stolen firearm kills somebody while the firearm is in the actual, physical possession of the felon. This happens while the man is in the act of committing two felonies, #1 and #2 above. Even if there was no intent, this is still a crime: involuntary manslaughter.

    Yet with all of that, Zarate apparently was only convicted of #1 above.

    Here is an analogy:

    1. Your license was revoked, but you are driving a car. You are committing a crime.

    2. The car you are driving is a stolen vehicle. Possession of a stolen vehicle is another crime.

    3. While you are illegally driving that stolen vehicle, you hit a woman who is out having a nice walk with her father. She dies. You have committed involuntary manslaughter.

    You are guilty of all three crimes, just as Zarate is guilty of all three of his crimes.

    Zarate was provided what our Constitution guarantees: a vigorous defense and innocence until guilt is proven, but even when only the bare minimum facts are given, simple logic says he is guilty, guilty, guilty -- not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but by logical necessity.

    Correct me if my logic or legal knowledge is wrong.

    even when only the bare minimum facts are given, simple logic says he is guilty, guilty, guilty — not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but by logical necessity.

    There’s no logical necessity for a jury.

    Venue and jury selection is critical.

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  161. Anon says: • Disclaimer

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  162. bomag says:
    @Thomas

    Just remember that even 50 years ago the DA’s office in San Francisco would routinely free black rapists because the white victims, being white, had it coming.

    How much worse must it be now?
     

    It probably hit its low point in the early 2000s under Terence "Fluffy" Hallinan, a former Communist radical and convicted criminal who was more interested in prosecuting police than criminals, and who had the lowest conviction rate of any DA in California. It got a little better after that, though that's obviously not saying much.

    San Francisco is a weird (though not surprising) case in that the Public Defender's office is considered the legal "varsity squad" compared to the DA's office, with ample resources, political connections and the lion's share of the limelight (it's the only public defender's office in California whose head is elected). Matt Gonzalez, Garcia Zarate's attorney, is the chief attorney in the office, and was previously the president of the Board of Supervisors (San Francisco's powerful city and county legislative authority), as well as Ralph Nader's Green Party running mate in 2008.

    the Public Defender’s office is considered the legal “varsity squad” compared to the DA’s office, with ample resources, political connections and the lion’s share of the limelight

    That’s a big chunk of the thing here: the resources brought to bear on behalf of the illegal alien. An average guy on the street can’t get anything close to this.

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  163. bomag says:
    @Thomas

    What can the federal government do practically against San Francisco?
     
    One thing they certainly ought to do after this case is to refuse to hand over anyone pending deportation from federal custody to any sanctuary city or state. Someone pointed out here that Garcia Zarate had been in federal prison, and was pending deportation, but was sent to San Francisco on an old drug warrant (that was promptly dismissed and he was set loose without any notice to the feds). The policy ought to be to keep such individuals in federal custody, and, if they are to appear in a state or local proceeding, they’re brought to court and then promptly returned to a federal lock up, where they’ll stay pending the case. (Make it even better and charge the sanctuary cities a per diem rate to keep them in custody.)

    One thing I would like to see is ICE condoning and soliciting unofficial cooperation with police in sanctuary cities, state and local policy be damned. If sanctuary cities want to ignore federal law, nothing says the feds shouldn’t try to do the same regarding sanctuary policies. Cops in the same cities talk and cooperate all the time, even across jurisdictions, and nothing would effectively prevent local cops from surreptitiously “dropping a dime” to ICE about what they know. Maybe also see about coming up with a “special deputy” program, similar to the Section 287(g) program (allowing local law enforcement agencies to be deputized to enforce immigration law), but on an individual level, to allow local cops to do TAD with ICE off the clock. If their departments try to fire them, litigate it through their union proceedings and the courts, and offer DOJ support in doing so, on the argument that trying to fire someone for cooperating with federal law is wrongful termination. And if that fails, just poach them and offer them jobs with ICE, where they can bring along their local law enforcement experience. Those are a few creative ideas that would be worth trying.

    Good ideas. I would consider those a minimum. I think the feds should carpet bomb with official misconduct charges; pull federal funds from ALL programs; RICO; civil fines, penalties, and property forfeiture.

    At the moment, I think they should declare martial law and roll the B-52s.

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    • Agree: Kylie
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  164. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dr. X

    The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.

    In other words, jury nullification. Shades of the Butcher of Brentwood.

    Wanna bet on how long it’ll take before this dude commits another crime?

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  165. anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT, but of general interest:

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  166. @Thomas

    Did they measure the trigger pull weight? I have not seen it.
     
    From what I heard, the defense attorney wanted the jurors to individually dry fire the gun. They asked to see it again during deliberations.

    A SIG has a trigger pull of 4.4-5.5 pounds in single-action (from what I read, this one, a P239, had a weight of 4.8 to 5.5, smaller guns often have a heavier pull weight). That's not that light. A Glock (most popular law enforcement pistol in the US) typically has a stock 5.5 pound weight. An M1911 "Government .45" usually has about a 3.5 pound pull (granted, those are normally carried on safe, "cocked and locked").

    Has it been said if this was a DA/SA, DAO, or a DAK? The DAO has a trigger pull of 10 pounds. The DAK was developed for LEOs and has a trigger pull of 6.5 pounds.

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  167. In other news, Pablo “They” Gomez demanded to have their murder trial moved from Berkeley to San Francisco.

    Yeah well – this fits in so perfectly well, that at first glimpse, I really thought, you had made this up. – You could have made it up, of course, but again: No need to. This thing is therefor terrifyingly true, I’d say.

    You made this one up, obviously – and shockingly & precisely so, since it sounds like the – ehem: Man? – – – ehem: Itself…:
    “I killed an attractive young white woman at random too, so if I don’t get off, that would be, like, discrimination, which is racist.”

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  168. Read More
    • Agree: eah
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  169. CMC says:
    @Olorin
    One of the top rules of lawful firearms ownership and use:

    There are negligent discharges, but there is no such thing as an "accident."

    And do you think if this guy had been a white tourist in a MAGA hat he would have been acquitted for a negligent discharge that killed a SF resident?

    (Not that I believe for one moment that's what happened.)

    Agree. And this is what I’m saying: Why wasn’t he charged with negligent discharge too? I understand it might only be a 3 year max, but still. Why not charge it too? What were they afraid of? Inconsistent verdict problems (like if the jury came back with both 2nd degree murder —implying aiming, and negligent discharge —implying no aiming)?

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  170. Neuday says:
    @Thomas

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two “explanations”?
     
    Remember that a defense attorney only needs to raise reasonable doubt. Ultimately it's the prosecutors who have to prove their case beyond that, and get a unanimous verdict. And, in this case, the defense attorneys were able to raise claims like he didn't understand, there were translation issues, etc. One issue is that there was physical evidence of a ricochet, the bullet hit the ground and then ricocheted into Steinle.

    So if I fire a legally possessed gun aiming at a raccoon and it kills a neighbor, it’s not negligent homicide or manslaughter, but just an oopsie.

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    • Replies: @Lovernios X
    Only if you bounce it off the sidewalk.
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  171. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dr. X

    The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.

    I figured there had to be some diversity on the jury, but – yes – that woundn’t surprise me either. There is a reason that there is a special category all to itself of “San Francisco Liberal”.

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  172. Thea says:
    @eah
    It was all just one big unfortunate accident, including the fact he was on the street in the first place -- if you're looking for "depravity", SF's sanctuary policy also qualifies.

    https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/936404828040806401

    If Rotterham didn’t wake white men up one measly killing won’t either.

    They’ll go back to slumber from TV and high fructose corn syrup by noon.

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  173. Mr. Anon says:
    @Rod1963
    Spot on.

    It's all about protecting the person of color. Come on Steve no white felon with a rap sheet a mile long, shooting another white in SF or any liberal city would ever be given their walking papers. And that stolen gun from the BLM would certainly get him a visit from the ATF and some federal time.

    It's all about protecting ethnics and prosecuting a war on whites that is getting worse.

    And that stolen gun from the BLM would certainly get him a visit from the ATF and some federal time.

    Indeed. The Feds will throw you in stir for lying to federal investigators, despite the fact that the Feds are permitted to lie to you all they want. I’m sure that even possessing a gun stolen from a federal agent is a felony, even if you yourself were not the person who stole it.

    The Feds are dedicated to the principle that no one crosses them, even a little, without feeling some hurt.

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  174. eah says:
    @eah
    https://twitter.com/mikeenochsback/status/936507805049196544

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    https://twitter.com/johncannon/status/936220185345785856
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  175. Thea says:
    @Dr. X

    The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.
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    • Replies: @Dr. X
    Looks like both whites and Hispanics from that pic.
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  176. biz says:
    @anonymous
    Do you still think defending Israel is the key to the defense of Western Civ?

    It’s not the key but it is a barometer. If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.

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    • Replies: @Thea
    There is a strong case to be made for american nationalist support of Israel. It would involve a more reciprocal relationship than the evangelical boot licking that has gone one these far.
    , @anonymous

    It’s not the key but it is a barometer.
     
    It's not even close . Europe is literally being overrun before our eyes. The USA is being demographically swamped before our eyes. Patriots like Pat Buchanan who have been trying to call our attention to this since at least 1992, have routinely been denounced by folks like whiskey and his cohorts BECAUSE they felt Buchanan wasn't good on Israel.

    Whiskey used to blog on this site about how Buchanan was wrong in being solely concerned about the demographics of the US and Europe, and that the defense of Israel was paramount for the survival of the West.


    If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.
     
    You must be kidding. Israel is not the biggest scalp. Europe and the US are far greater. As for the leftists in your alliance, they have no intention of allowing Israel to fall to the muslims. In fact most are perfectly happy with promoting open borders in the US and Europe while strongly defending Israel's right to remain a Jewish state.
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  177. biz says:
    @Bragadocious
    Poor Kate. If her last name had just been Stein, the media would have been all over SF to put this guy away forever -- and they would have gotten their way.

    I dunno, there was a guy named Zimmerman who was involved in a prominent murder case and seemed to not enjoy the adoration of the media.

    And there was a guy named Goldman whose obvious killer in the trial of the century got off.

    And there was a guy named Strauss-Kahn who the media quickly rushed to declare guilty of a completely improbable rape of a Muslim woman, a case which eventually fell apart when the accuser was overheard talking to her friend about how she was bullshitting in hopes of getting some money.

    Contrary to your claim, it doesn’t seem that people with Jewish names in high profile cases actually enjoy the good graces of the media or justice system.

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  178. Comments on the Phil Lynott thread are still kaput, and it’s still down to comment #29, where an apparent attempt to hide a long comment below the fold seems to have swallowed the “new comment” box.

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  179. @eah
    'Trump Derangement Syndrome' writ large -- (((their))) alarmism is despicable.

    https://twitter.com/jonahfreedman/status/935910254499340288

    Also here:

    I had the same feeling - again - visiting the Anne Frank House and Resistance Museum in Amsterdam last week.

    Yeah, but they’re right. Nazi German power began with the SA being the only group to fight against Communist and Socialist anarchy-tyranny on the streets. Defending people attacked by the left legitimized them in enough minds.

    What those commenters cannot see is that it wasn’t moderate right-wing Germans who backed the National Socialists. What they should be backing is an immediate crackdown on left wing violence, or the still-large white population will respond. If the left wants to win, they need to control the violence for 30years until it’s completely too late to change things.

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    • Replies: @lavoisier
    Totally agree.

    Left wing violence may be the fuse that really wakes the right up. Right now they are angry, but dormant.

    Once the right starts fighting back against the leftist scum, the argument becomes violent. And once the violence starts, all bets are off as to how this thing will play out.

    I have tried to imagine a number of different scenarios, but quite honestly I can make no firm predictions besides this: If the fighting starts, a lot of people on both sides will die.

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  180. bomag says:
    @eah
    'Trump Derangement Syndrome' writ large -- (((their))) alarmism is despicable.

    https://twitter.com/jonahfreedman/status/935910254499340288

    Also here:

    I had the same feeling - again - visiting the Anne Frank House and Resistance Museum in Amsterdam last week.

    one weird unsettling development after another, until they were past the point of no return

    Funneling immigrants into the country at today’s level and absolving them of their crimes is pretty unsettling.

    Our political opponents constantly harping on Nazi analogies 24/7 is pretty unsettling.

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  181. @Dr. X

    The jury’s action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me at all if the jury were a bunch of whites so far to the Left that they voted for acquittal just to get back at Trump.

    The most interesting part of the OJ trial was the jury selection. Jo-Ellen Dimitrias won that case before it even started. I not only want to know more about the racial / ethnic / sexual orientation (weirdness) of the jury but what the defense’s tactics were in how that jury came about. The rest is academic.

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  182. @Dr. X
    This is absurd beyond belief. California has implemented some of the most drastic, unconstitutional gun laws in the country -- which, of course, only affect law-abiding, taxpaying, home-owning, job-holding citizens who have a LOT to lose if they violate them.

    Conversely, an illegal alien who had been deported multiple times and had a felony record shoots an innocent bystander and gets off with no homicide conviction. This is the very definition of anarcho-tyranny.

    Even if the shooting was an accident (and frankly I don't know how the defense was able to "prove" that it was, other than the mere assertion of the defendant ) they guy still should have been convicted of some kind of homicide charge, such as manslaughter or criminally-negligent homicide.

    This is nuts. California is nuts. This f-ing country is nuts.

    I am cutting and pasting this comment of yours into my blog, Doctor. I hope you don’t mind. That’s about the best summation I can think of, of this madness. We used to just be kidding when we said California is the land of fruits and nuts (errr, at least the nuts part).

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    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    The version I've always heard is "How is San Francisco like out a granola bar? Take out all the fruits and nuts, all that's left are the flakes!"
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  183. SMK says: • Website
    @candid_observer
    The good news is that he plans to get OJ to team up with him to find the real killer.

    The flamboyant, handsome white “Hispanic” lawyer who defended and freed his low-IQ, nonwhite “Hispanic” brother went on and on and on about the “reasonable doubt standard” when, given the facts, the “reasonable doubt standard” was utterly irrelevant in this case. The defendant was obviously “not guilty” of either first-degree or second-degree murder as defined under the law but, just as obviously, he was guilty of involuntary manslaughter, beyond any doubt -just as O.J. was guilty beyond any doubt of cutting off his ex-wife’s head and torturing Ron Goldman to death. So the jury engaged in an act of nullification, as did the O.J. jury, and who knows how many juries before and since, freeing black and “Latino” criminals, nearly all of whom would go on t commit more violent felonies.

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  184. Cortes says:

    Intentions should be disregarded in any case like this. Absent the possibility of accidental discharge via stepping on the firearm and the automatic prehensile activity of the toes in the huaraches, it’s not easy to see how the jury could have reached its verdict.
    Is there no “outrageous verdict” mechanism for appeal?

    PS: the recidivism of the accused is itself evidence of a continuous course of criminal activity.

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  185. @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Involuntary manslaughter is not intentional, but still a crime. A driver losing control of a vehicle killing a pedestrian will likely be convicted of involuntary manslaughter. A hunter missing his target and the bullet ricochets, killing likely will be convicted of involuntary manslaughter. How in hell can an illegal alien stealing a firearm and deliberately discharging a firearm in order to shoot a “seal”, not be?

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  186. Attn: Tiny Duck

    Wouldn’t now be a good time for a tweet about how Kate Steinle “had it coming”?

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    He's having a hard time coming up with material on his own now, because so many of his colleagues, supporters and enablers have been fired for sexual harassment of white women.
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  187. lavoisier says: • Website

    The next thing we will read about is that Governor Brown has awarded the poor man 10 million dollars for the suffering he experienced while being falsely accused of murdering Kate Steinle.

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  188. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    Had not heard that one.

    Certainly changes the tenor of the story if true.

    But wouldn’t manslaughter still be the crime even if the hapless fool was shooting off a gun in front of a lot of people?

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  189. BB753 says:
    @BB753
    How could an expensive firearm like a SIG P239 just be lying around in the floor of a pier? And a gun stolen from a ranger, no less!

    There's something fishy here beyond the acquittal. Maybe the gun had been used to commit another crime before Steinle's shooting, with or without the knowledge or consent of the ranger. So my guess is the establishment is trying to hide something beyond the Zarate case.

    Here’s my guess. Zarate was hired to dispose of the gun, used for some criminal act we don’t know about, but got drunk and figured he could have some fun shooting at the sea lions or in the air, Mexican-style, before tossing the gun into the harbor. And he couldn’t shoot straight. Of course, it’s still manslaughter, by definition.
    Now, I think this illegal POS was given a lenient sentence – to say the least- to keep his mouth shut. Because somebody up the line messed up real good.
    What do you think?

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  190. lavoisier says: • Website
    @TomSchmidt
    Yeah, but they're right. Nazi German power began with the SA being the only group to fight against Communist and Socialist anarchy-tyranny on the streets. Defending people attacked by the left legitimized them in enough minds.

    What those commenters cannot see is that it wasn't moderate right-wing Germans who backed the National Socialists. What they should be backing is an immediate crackdown on left wing violence, or the still-large white population will respond. If the left wants to win, they need to control the violence for 30years until it's completely too late to change things.

    Totally agree.

    Left wing violence may be the fuse that really wakes the right up. Right now they are angry, but dormant.

    Once the right starts fighting back against the leftist scum, the argument becomes violent. And once the violence starts, all bets are off as to how this thing will play out.

    I have tried to imagine a number of different scenarios, but quite honestly I can make no firm predictions besides this: If the fighting starts, a lot of people on both sides will die.

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    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    If the fighting starts, a lot of people on both sides will die.

    I think neither side will back down or seek compromise. The Left has been so used to "winning" (in the sense of "don't think you've convinced a man because you have silenced him") for so long that they think they are invincible, but they have feet of clay. They will push things. They won't compromise. They will win so long as the police and army continue to get paid.

    Trump seems to drive them nuts, but with the exception of being un-PC and clamping down on immigration, his positions are very like older liberal Democratic ones.

    The Republicans still seem enthralled by their donors, thus the tax bill. However, the tax bill DOES have a large component of sticking it to the liberal coasts. I don't like the fact that they're using tax policy to stick it to blue states and drive up my taxes, but I have to admire the tactic in using the overgrown state in DC to stick it to their opponents.

    One side or the other will win. Hopefully we will get a national divorce before we start killing each other.
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  191. Thea says:
    @biz
    It's not the key but it is a barometer. If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.

    There is a strong case to be made for american nationalist support of Israel. It would involve a more reciprocal relationship than the evangelical boot licking that has gone one these far.

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  192. lavoisier says: • Website
    @e
    My understanding is that the perp first told police he was shooting at sea lions. Then, he changed his story to he accidentally stepped on the gun and it discharged. Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.

    How would a jury believe the latter if cops testified in court to the former two "explanations"?

    I think this is a moment we'll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.

    “I think this is a moment we’ll all remember. Even my Dem friends are running from this one.”

    I would not count on that. White Liberal Democrats are impervious to reason or fairness.

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  193. @candid_observer

    Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as a DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended.
    ...
    Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

    1. Someone was killed as a result of the defendant's actions.
    2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
    3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

     

    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html

    Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

    1. Someone was killed as a result of the defendant’s actions.
    2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
    3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.

    Element 1, check.

    Element 2, check.

    Element 3, check.

    Zarete is doubtlessly guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

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    • Replies: @JudgeSmails
    An unbiased jury would have taken about an hour to reach a guilty verdict of involuntary manslaughter.
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  194. @JudgeSmails

    Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

    1. Someone was killed as a result of the defendant’s actions.
    2. The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
    3. The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.
     

    Element 1, check.

    Element 2, check.

    Element 3, check.

    Zarete is doubtlessly guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

    An unbiased jury would have taken about an hour to reach a guilty verdict of involuntary manslaughter.

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  195. Kylie says:
    @White Guy In Japan
    Honestly, was hoping for more of a Twitter chimpout from our Shitposter-in-Chief.

    “Honestly, was hoping for more of a Twitter chimpout from our Shitposter-in-Chief.”

    I wasn’t. He’s already being lambasted by the Isle of the Dead’s PM.

    I thought Trump’s initial tweet was extremely effective. He said the verdict was “disgraceful” and added, “No wonder the people of our Country are so angry with Illegal Immigration.” thereby aligning himself with the people who elected him. He gave his supporters a voice and kept from looking like a lone hothead. The left will tear into him anyway for his tweets but as someone totally opposed to the open borders agenda, I liked it and think it nudges fence sitters in the right direction.

    My conservative Facebook friends were furious when the verdict was announced. They didn’t wait for him to tweet his reaction. They had plenty. to say for themselves from the git go.

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  196. SMK says: • Website
    @eah
    It was all just one big unfortunate accident, including the fact he was on the street in the first place -- if you're looking for "depravity", SF's sanctuary policy also qualifies.

    https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/936404828040806401

    Not so, James Woods. Nothing will change, just as the O.J. verdict changed nothing. Fundamentally, there have been no positive ramifications. Generally, things are even worse today. And the future will be horrific in it’s anarcho-tyranny as blacks and “Latinos” will be virtually free to murder and rape and rob and assault whites and whites who are sentenced to jails and prisons will be terrorized and brutalized and frequently murdered by blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians.

    Crime and the criminal justice: the ultimate horror of white dispossession And envision what life will be like for whites, those who aren’t rich and affluent, in 20 and 30 and 40 years, when whites are a minority and nonwhites, overwhelmingly blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians, and their white enablers, apologists, and sycophants, gentile and Jewish, “Hispanic” and non-”Hispanic,” control everything, including the criminal justice system.

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    • Replies: @KenH
    I think events in Charlottesville tell us what life will be like when whites become a minority and exercise little if any, political power. Cville had a dynamic duo of a Jewish mayor and militant negro vice mayor who showed us exactly what they think about constitutional protections for their political enemies.

    Non-whites will be free to rape, rob, harass and murder whites who will be given no protection under the law in states and localities dominated by the loony, anti-white left. The arrest of any non-white would spark violent riots and the rioters won't be arrested. They barely are now.

    I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that white people will need to from race based militias and exercise their second amendment rights sooner than twenty years. Whites who find themselves in prison will be treated exactly as you described. Whites are already a minority in the state and federal prison system and things will only get worse.
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  197. @Almost Missouri
    Attn: Tiny Duck

    Wouldn't now be a good time for a tweet about how Kate Steinle "had it coming"?

    He’s having a hard time coming up with material on his own now, because so many of his colleagues, supporters and enablers have been fired for sexual harassment of white women.

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  198. @Anonym
    Poor Kate. If her last name had just been Stein, the media would have been all over SF to put this guy away forever — and they would have gotten their way.

    I guess no one figured out that Ron Goldman was Jewish.

    Actually, in Ron Goldman’s case…you may recall, plenty of Jewish activists in yarmulkes were picketing outside the courthouse in LA. This is one of those “memory hole” things but I remember it well. They were specifically upset that a Jew had been killed, though I suspect they had no opinion on Nicole’s slaying. In normal circumstances, their pressure would have mattered, except that it was OJ, and he had hired Barry Scheck, the smartest Jew in the room, as his attorney.

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  199. CMC says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If I'm shooting at a sea lion and I have no legal right to be touching a gun and I kill some human, that's not "involuntary manslaughter"?

    I set fire to my restaurant to collect the fire insurance and a beam falls on a fireman and kills him, that's okay too?

    Yes, it is.

    And no, that’s not ok either.

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  200. @Dr. X
    This is absurd beyond belief. California has implemented some of the most drastic, unconstitutional gun laws in the country -- which, of course, only affect law-abiding, taxpaying, home-owning, job-holding citizens who have a LOT to lose if they violate them.

    Conversely, an illegal alien who had been deported multiple times and had a felony record shoots an innocent bystander and gets off with no homicide conviction. This is the very definition of anarcho-tyranny.

    Even if the shooting was an accident (and frankly I don't know how the defense was able to "prove" that it was, other than the mere assertion of the defendant ) they guy still should have been convicted of some kind of homicide charge, such as manslaughter or criminally-negligent homicide.

    This is nuts. California is nuts. This f-ing country is nuts.

    The defense claimed Zarate “found” the gun under a bench in a public place. Since when does a street criminal steal a valuable handgun and then walk away leaving it for someone else to find?

    For how a handgun changes hands in the criminal underworld, see a chapter titled “The Gun,” in Clark Howard’s book, “Zebra,” pages 361-71 in the 1980 paperback edition.

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    • Replies: @Dr. X

    The defense claimed Zarate “found” the gun under a bench in a public place. Since when does a street criminal steal a valuable handgun and then walk away leaving it for someone else to find?
     
    Exactly. Let's look at other possible charges that weren't filed: possession of stolen property, carrying a handgun without a permit, illegal discharge... the guy claimed he was shooting at sea lions, how about "illegal hunting" and hunting without a license? Isn't it illegal in California to hunt with a lead-core bullet? How about that?

    The guy also claimed that he was on drugs at the time... in my state it's illegal to carry a loaded gun in public, I can't imagine it isn't illegal in California too.

    This guy could've got 75 years if they had wanted...
    , @Steve Sailer
    The defense claim is that some other criminals decided to dispose of a gun by taking it to a busy tourist attraction, but instead of throwing it in the ocean (like the killer did) or dropping it in a trash can, they left it under a bench.
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  201. @lavoisier
    Totally agree.

    Left wing violence may be the fuse that really wakes the right up. Right now they are angry, but dormant.

    Once the right starts fighting back against the leftist scum, the argument becomes violent. And once the violence starts, all bets are off as to how this thing will play out.

    I have tried to imagine a number of different scenarios, but quite honestly I can make no firm predictions besides this: If the fighting starts, a lot of people on both sides will die.

    If the fighting starts, a lot of people on both sides will die.

    I think neither side will back down or seek compromise. The Left has been so used to “winning” (in the sense of “don’t think you’ve convinced a man because you have silenced him”) for so long that they think they are invincible, but they have feet of clay. They will push things. They won’t compromise. They will win so long as the police and army continue to get paid.

    Trump seems to drive them nuts, but with the exception of being un-PC and clamping down on immigration, his positions are very like older liberal Democratic ones.

    The Republicans still seem enthralled by their donors, thus the tax bill. However, the tax bill DOES have a large component of sticking it to the liberal coasts. I don’t like the fact that they’re using tax policy to stick it to blue states and drive up my taxes, but I have to admire the tactic in using the overgrown state in DC to stick it to their opponents.

    One side or the other will win. Hopefully we will get a national divorce before we start killing each other.

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  202. @Anonymous
    The three strikes California law, which results in serious prison time, applies to everyone in California... except illegal aliens. As Boston talk show host Howie Carr always says, “If I ever get into trouble I don’t want special treatment, I just want to be treated like an illegal alien.

    Really? I was thinking any felony conviction and away he goes. That’s shocking.

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  203. @Neuday
    So if I fire a legally possessed gun aiming at a raccoon and it kills a neighbor, it's not negligent homicide or manslaughter, but just an oopsie.

    Only if you bounce it off the sidewalk.

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  204. @Buzz Mohawk
    Requiescat In Pace

    http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/10/10/de1fc502-9b4d-40e9-99fe-05102807768f/thumbnail/770x430/2d76b527c7da330e397be93494b93741/lady-justice-shreveport.jpg

    In San Francisco, the scales pendulate from the middle finger.

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  205. @Vinay
    “So this isn’t one of those cases like with George Zimmerman where the prosecutor gambles on an all-or-nothing murder charge.”

    That didn’t happen. Zimmerman was acquitted of manslaughter as well. The prosecution even tried to throw in a last-minute charge of endangering a minor or something like that.

    Besides, in Zimmerman’s case, assault with a firearm etc. would have been pointless since the instructions specifically mention that self-defense is a defense against ALL those charges.

    Strange how far misinformation spreads,

    If Zimmerman had only been charged with manslaughter from the start the prosecution would have had to present the case differently in the first place. With the way the court case went it’s obvious in a procedural sense that a jury should not accept the prosecution in effect contradicting themselves and their own narrative. Their simple problem was they couldn’t prove murder, since the only way they really could was intent, and with the circumstances (Trayvon dead, no other relevant witnesses to “intent”) Zimmerman was not going to incriminate himself. Just like with OJ or something, the fact that the prosecution was incompetent or corrupt and influenced by politics, or that the media spouted disturbing propaganda, doesn’t change the actual facts of the case.

    This Kate Steinle result is also outrageous but it seems like nothing will ever convince insane wannabe cowboy vigilantes that we don’t live in a cowboy-videogame world. Dueling is not legal; anytime strangers get into a conflict or fistfight or anything in a public place should not mean, in a moral society, that any of them can then start killing. The countless thousands of incidents where strangers get into a fistfight and somene kills someone should all be treated as manslaughter at the least, even though no random low-profile case appears in the national MSM. People shouldn’t be shooting guns off into the air, public places, etc like Yosemite Sam. Wannabe cowboys all across American fantasize in a mentally ill way about obtaining their “right to kill” randomly so it’s not surprising this lack of respect for human life bleeds over into unintended consequences.

    I don’t think even alt-right gun nuts actually want to live in a world where the next Ta-Nehisis Coates who thinks his kid bumped into someone on an escalator and happens to otherwise be legally carrying a weapon at the time decides he can open fire on a bunch of people in “self-defense.”

    This story is just another datapoint in a long long stream of famous incidents and weird American public perception of homicide and manslaughter. Note how terrible the media and politics are about vehicular manslaughter all the time too; thousands of incidents occur every year with relatively light punishment for drunk drivers for instance, except when one case out of thousands that gets reported on by the media (say, affluenza kid) it distorts public perception.

    Much more broadly, as often mentioned by criminal reform folks, for decades the American justice system just hasn’t been built to try cases; huge proportions of all the actual violent criminals take plea deals/never see a jury, and the pressure by the public and media on anything that actually goes to trial thus produces weird results.

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Straw man argument soundly defeated.

    No American thinks that Zarate should have been allowed to hold, let alone use, a gun.

    In fact, Americans don't think that Zarate should have been in America, not even in California.

    The Second Amendment is quite simply about who is master - the people or the government. Without guns, people lapse into a European mindset which leaves them helpless when (not if) the elites sell them out.
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  206. CCZ says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    Did the 4 who tortured that mentally retard white guy do any jail time? Because that story has gone down the memory whole.

    For the optimists... look at South Africa. Whites will sit back and let themselves be exterminated. Well to be exact, white leftists will push down everyone else in order to get everyone murdered. Pol Pot managed to go through 1 in 3 before the Vietnamese took him down; I wonder how many will survive in the US.

    “Authorities said they pursued hate crime charges because of the racial remarks, and because of the victim’s disability. Hill, Cooper and the Covington sisters are all currently in custody. Cooper and Tanishia Covington are being held without bond, according to Cook County inmate records, while Hill and Brittany Covington are being held in lieu of $900,000 and $500,000 respectively.”
    November 29, 2017 article

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  207. Cortes says:

    Perhaps “non Sanctuary America” should indicate that it will indeed be “non sanctuary” for white people from the areas like SF as and from date x?

    Then it’s a “make your mind up time.”

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  208. KenH says:

    I wonder what the racial composition of the jury was? I wonder what the sexual orientation of the jury was (may have had a couple of trannies on it). The (((media))) is quick to inform us all that a jury was mostly white if they acquit a white cop or citizen of shooting a gibsmedat. It seems they are keeping the racial composition of this jury quiet since they don’t want anyone making a connection between jury diversity and a “F you whitey” verdict like this one. Shades of the OJ Simpson trial.

    I hope Trump plans to do something about this other than a two day tweet storm.

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  209. Dr. X says:
    @David In TN
    The defense claimed Zarate "found" the gun under a bench in a public place. Since when does a street criminal steal a valuable handgun and then walk away leaving it for someone else to find?

    For how a handgun changes hands in the criminal underworld, see a chapter titled "The Gun," in Clark Howard's book, "Zebra," pages 361-71 in the 1980 paperback edition.

    The defense claimed Zarate “found” the gun under a bench in a public place. Since when does a street criminal steal a valuable handgun and then walk away leaving it for someone else to find?

    Exactly. Let’s look at other possible charges that weren’t filed: possession of stolen property, carrying a handgun without a permit, illegal discharge… the guy claimed he was shooting at sea lions, how about “illegal hunting” and hunting without a license? Isn’t it illegal in California to hunt with a lead-core bullet? How about that?

    The guy also claimed that he was on drugs at the time… in my state it’s illegal to carry a loaded gun in public, I can’t imagine it isn’t illegal in California too.

    This guy could’ve got 75 years if they had wanted…

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  210. Dr. X says:
    @Thea
    Nope Hispanics

    https://mobile.twitter.com/WolffieJames/status/936429042198286336

    They hate us.

    Looks like both whites and Hispanics from that pic.

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  211. @Achmed E. Newman
    I am cutting and pasting this comment of yours into my blog, Doctor. I hope you don't mind. That's about the best summation I can think of, of this madness. We used to just be kidding when we said California is the land of fruits and nuts (errr, at least the nuts part).

    The version I’ve always heard is “How is San Francisco like out a granola bar? Take out all the fruits and nuts, all that’s left are the flakes!”

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  212. donut says:

    She’s dead that’s sad . I am glad that he was acquitted .

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  213. @Mr. Anon

    Then, of course, the attorney in court claimed the perp found a wrapped up towel or something or other under his park bench and when he picked it up, the gun discharged.
     
    Moreover, if he really just picked up a package off the ground that happened to be a pistol that then discharged, why did they return a guilty verdict on a weapons possession charge? The jury's action was incoherent. It would be interesting to know who they were. Mexicans, voting out of ethnic solidarity? People who just resent and dislike pretty young white women? Who?

    Moreover, if he really just picked up a package off the ground that happened to be a pistol that then discharged, why did they return a guilty verdict on a weapons possession charge? The jury’s action was incoherent.

    “First of all, I wasn’t even there, second of all, I didn’t do it on purpose, and third of all, he had it coming!”

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  214. @David In TN
    The defense claimed Zarate "found" the gun under a bench in a public place. Since when does a street criminal steal a valuable handgun and then walk away leaving it for someone else to find?

    For how a handgun changes hands in the criminal underworld, see a chapter titled "The Gun," in Clark Howard's book, "Zebra," pages 361-71 in the 1980 paperback edition.

    The defense claim is that some other criminals decided to dispose of a gun by taking it to a busy tourist attraction, but instead of throwing it in the ocean (like the killer did) or dropping it in a trash can, they left it under a bench.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Yeah, everybody knows that if you ever have a need of a gun, you go to a public place and look for the gun in some very visible spot, because that's where criminals with guns -- who are always trying to get rid of them -- dispose of them.

    But make sure you do it in the middle of the day -- that's when they dump them off! They don't last long!

    And remember: you'll always find them under a nice piece of cloth, which they bring for the purpose of concealment. I mean, if you're going to drop off a gun in public place in the middle of the day, a little bit of concealment is kind of in order, you know?

    They think of everything!

    , @David In TN
    Criminals in that situation sell or trade the gun. This weapon wasn't a cheap so-called Saturday Night Special.

    And if a criminal did want to dispose of the gun, he would throw it in the ocean. Not leave it were it could be found.

    Did the prosecutor make this point?
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  215. @niteranger
    The jurors should be put in jail for life along with this illegal felon. This is a now a sickness that has infected most of the USA. If this would have been a white person who did the same thing he would been found guilty of every charge. This country is done. The life of a white person means nothing. There is but one recourse and everyone knows what it is.......

    Be careful what you wish for. A frail thread of respect for the Rule of Law is all that’s holding this nation together now.

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  216. Eagle Eye says:
    @Krastos the Gluemaker
    If Zimmerman had only been charged with manslaughter from the start the prosecution would have had to present the case differently in the first place. With the way the court case went it's obvious in a procedural sense that a jury should not accept the prosecution in effect contradicting themselves and their own narrative. Their simple problem was they couldn't prove murder, since the only way they really could was intent, and with the circumstances (Trayvon dead, no other relevant witnesses to "intent") Zimmerman was not going to incriminate himself. Just like with OJ or something, the fact that the prosecution was incompetent or corrupt and influenced by politics, or that the media spouted disturbing propaganda, doesn't change the actual facts of the case.

    This Kate Steinle result is also outrageous but it seems like nothing will ever convince insane wannabe cowboy vigilantes that we don't live in a cowboy-videogame world. Dueling is not legal; anytime strangers get into a conflict or fistfight or anything in a public place should not mean, in a moral society, that any of them can then start killing. The countless thousands of incidents where strangers get into a fistfight and somene kills someone should all be treated as manslaughter at the least, even though no random low-profile case appears in the national MSM. People shouldn't be shooting guns off into the air, public places, etc like Yosemite Sam. Wannabe cowboys all across American fantasize in a mentally ill way about obtaining their "right to kill" randomly so it's not surprising this lack of respect for human life bleeds over into unintended consequences.

    I don't think even alt-right gun nuts actually want to live in a world where the next Ta-Nehisis Coates who thinks his kid bumped into someone on an escalator and happens to otherwise be legally carrying a weapon at the time decides he can open fire on a bunch of people in "self-defense."

    This story is just another datapoint in a long long stream of famous incidents and weird American public perception of homicide and manslaughter. Note how terrible the media and politics are about vehicular manslaughter all the time too; thousands of incidents occur every year with relatively light punishment for drunk drivers for instance, except when one case out of thousands that gets reported on by the media (say, affluenza kid) it distorts public perception.

    Much more broadly, as often mentioned by criminal reform folks, for decades the American justice system just hasn't been built to try cases; huge proportions of all the actual violent criminals take plea deals/never see a jury, and the pressure by the public and media on anything that actually goes to trial thus produces weird results.

    Straw man argument soundly defeated.

    No American thinks that Zarate should have been allowed to hold, let alone use, a gun.

    In fact, Americans don’t think that Zarate should have been in America, not even in California.

    The Second Amendment is quite simply about who is master – the people or the government. Without guns, people lapse into a European mindset which leaves them helpless when (not if) the elites sell them out.

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  217. @Steve Sailer
    The defense claim is that some other criminals decided to dispose of a gun by taking it to a busy tourist attraction, but instead of throwing it in the ocean (like the killer did) or dropping it in a trash can, they left it under a bench.

    Yeah, everybody knows that if you ever have a need of a gun, you go to a public place and look for the gun in some very visible spot, because that’s where criminals with guns — who are always trying to get rid of them — dispose of them.

    But make sure you do it in the middle of the day — that’s when they dump them off! They don’t last long!

    And remember: you’ll always find them under a nice piece of cloth, which they bring for the purpose of concealment. I mean, if you’re going to drop off a gun in public place in the middle of the day, a little bit of concealment is kind of in order, you know?

    They think of everything!

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  218. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @biz
    It's not the key but it is a barometer. If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.

    It’s not the key but it is a barometer.

    It’s not even close . Europe is literally being overrun before our eyes. The USA is being demographically swamped before our eyes. Patriots like Pat Buchanan who have been trying to call our attention to this since at least 1992, have routinely been denounced by folks like whiskey and his cohorts BECAUSE they felt Buchanan wasn’t good on Israel.

    Whiskey used to blog on this site about how Buchanan was wrong in being solely concerned about the demographics of the US and Europe, and that the defense of Israel was paramount for the survival of the West.

    If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.

    You must be kidding. Israel is not the biggest scalp. Europe and the US are far greater. As for the leftists in your alliance, they have no intention of allowing Israel to fall to the muslims. In fact most are perfectly happy with promoting open borders in the US and Europe while strongly defending Israel’s right to remain a Jewish state.

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    • Replies: @biz

    As for the leftists in your alliance, they have no intention of allowing Israel to fall to the muslims
     
    I see, you've been in a coma for 20 years. Never mind, carry on.
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  219. @Steve Sailer
    The defense claim is that some other criminals decided to dispose of a gun by taking it to a busy tourist attraction, but instead of throwing it in the ocean (like the killer did) or dropping it in a trash can, they left it under a bench.

    Criminals in that situation sell or trade the gun. This weapon wasn’t a cheap so-called Saturday Night Special.

    And if a criminal did want to dispose of the gun, he would throw it in the ocean. Not leave it were it could be found.

    Did the prosecutor make this point?

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  220. biz says:
    @anonymous

    It’s not the key but it is a barometer.
     
    It's not even close . Europe is literally being overrun before our eyes. The USA is being demographically swamped before our eyes. Patriots like Pat Buchanan who have been trying to call our attention to this since at least 1992, have routinely been denounced by folks like whiskey and his cohorts BECAUSE they felt Buchanan wasn't good on Israel.

    Whiskey used to blog on this site about how Buchanan was wrong in being solely concerned about the demographics of the US and Europe, and that the defense of Israel was paramount for the survival of the West.


    If Israel falls, then the Leftist/Islamist alliance will have its biggest scalp, and then it is definitely over for the West.
     
    You must be kidding. Israel is not the biggest scalp. Europe and the US are far greater. As for the leftists in your alliance, they have no intention of allowing Israel to fall to the muslims. In fact most are perfectly happy with promoting open borders in the US and Europe while strongly defending Israel's right to remain a Jewish state.

    As for the leftists in your alliance, they have no intention of allowing Israel to fall to the muslims

    I see, you’ve been in a coma for 20 years. Never mind, carry on.

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  221. KenH says:
    @SMK
    Not so, James Woods. Nothing will change, just as the O.J. verdict changed nothing. Fundamentally, there have been no positive ramifications. Generally, things are even worse today. And the future will be horrific in it's anarcho-tyranny as blacks and "Latinos" will be virtually free to murder and rape and rob and assault whites and whites who are sentenced to jails and prisons will be terrorized and brutalized and frequently murdered by blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians.

    Crime and the criminal justice: the ultimate horror of white dispossession And envision what life will be like for whites, those who aren't rich and affluent, in 20 and 30 and 40 years, when whites are a minority and nonwhites, overwhelmingly blacks and Mestizos/Amerindians, and their white enablers, apologists, and sycophants, gentile and Jewish, "Hispanic" and non-"Hispanic," control everything, including the criminal justice system.

    I think events in Charlottesville tell us what life will be like when whites become a minority and exercise little if any, political power. Cville had a dynamic duo of a Jewish mayor and militant negro vice mayor who showed us exactly what they think about constitutional protections for their political enemies.

    Non-whites will be free to rape, rob, harass and murder whites who will be given no protection under the law in states and localities dominated by the loony, anti-white left. The arrest of any non-white would spark violent riots and the rioters won’t be arrested. They barely are now.

    I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say that white people will need to from race based militias and exercise their second amendment rights sooner than twenty years. Whites who find themselves in prison will be treated exactly as you described. Whites are already a minority in the state and federal prison system and things will only get worse.

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  222. Imag­ine what we’ll be able to learn about con­sumers with the algo­rith­mic aid
    of rudi­men­ta­ry A.I. in the com­ing months
    and years.

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  223. eah says:
    @eah
    https://twitter.com/AvengedCoach/status/936397031211520001

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  224. eah says:
    @eah
    He’s undocumented, that makes him holy.

    No, the fact he's not white makes him "holy" -- an oppressed 'person of color', another victim of 'white supremacy' -- illegal Whites, eg an Irish overstayer, may also benefit from sanctuary policies, but these policies weren't designed for them -- do you really think the same dynamic would be present here were her killer white?

    Haven’t you been paying attention to the news?

    Apparently you haven't.

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  225. seo推广 says: • Website

    Country of origin for 94.8% of all visits is China.

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  226. Brutusale says:
    @J.Ross
    Service firearms in California have to survive a "drop test," that is, you have to be able to drop them without them going off.
    I am still processing this. /pol/ had six simultaneous threads (redundant threads are forbidden, but this is never enforced) calling for riots. When I was a leftist one of Howard Zinn's most affecting citationless little anecdotes (that often turned out to be false or spurious) was of an Italian judge, under Mussolini, stating in his verdict that some nameless Commie was totally innocent, but the state was going to go ahead and sentence him anyway. Zinn wasn't aware of any cases of Commie judges using similar reasoning (they never had to, they reliably had confessions). In his People's History, Zinn places that as the central illustration of What Fascism Was and why we had to fight it.
    You can't even call it Satanic because, in Christian mythology, Satan is rigorously just. This is staggering.

    By the late 70s Howard Zinn wasn’t interested in much other than adding young coeds to his coterie of sycophants and stoking his undying hatred of Boston University president John Silber.

    How long until the #MeToo crowd starts going to investigate the pedagogues at US colleges and universities, where the REAL sexual abuse takes place?

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  227. Olorin says:
    @CCZ
    Matt Gonzalez, leading us to our multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist future with law, politics, and art.

    Gonzalez was born in McAllen, Texas in 1965 to a Mexican mother, Oralia, and Mexican-American father, Mateo, but spent the first five years of his life in San Juan, Puerto Rico, where he and his older sister spent days playing on the beach. His father, Mateo Gonzalez, was originally a salesman and then division chief for tobacco giant Brown & Williamson.

    Interesting review of his “collage art” and its political origins and “cosmopolitan” “international” and “non-provincial” messages. He appears, from the reviewer's comments, to have a very strong connection with his Mexican heritage and, and from his own words, an adoration of Mexico's history of “resistance” to wealthier foreign nations.


    “A Mexican current flows through Gonzalez’ work. His mother is a native of Jalisco, and his parents started an import/export medical equipment business in the US that primarily dealt with Mexican companies, and he spent much of his youth in the city of McAllen, Texas just nine miles north of the US-Mexican border. His cosmopolitan perspective on the present global financial crisis is particularly Mexican-American in character; he sees with unusual clarity the ways in which late capitalism positions modern nation states at various stages in the development of mechanized industry, and he sees this development in terms of Mexico’s recorded past. Gonzalez writes: “The Mexicans of the 19th century fought against what many developing nations face today – mounting debt and IMF / World Bank policies that constrain their ability to properly care for their citizens. As these countries struggle to make payments on debt, or just cover interest payments, their internal economic problems are exacerbated rather than relieved…. More than anything, Cinco de Mayo commemorates a developing nation’s resistance to the lending practices of wealthier foreign nations.” This Mexican current carries with it not only history but aesthetics as well; in a piece he wrote about the painter Gustavo Ramos Rivera, Gonzalez articulates by the way his own feeling for figuration, medium, palette and contrast – again non-provincial and openly international in its leanings”
    http://aguyshouldknow.com/a-defiant-beauty-matt-gonzalez/ 2013
     
    Gonzalez said about his childhood in South Texas:

    "The Mexican-American–Latino–Chicano culture in California is different than my experience in Texas. I grew up in a town that is majority Mexican and Mexican-American. In McAllen, we didn't refer to ourselves as Latinos or Chicanos. We referred to ourselves as Mexican. There's a different feel in that border area."
    http://greenpolitics.wikia.com/wiki/Matt_Gonzalez
     
    Multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist or quisling and fifth-columnist?

    Multi-cultural, cosmopolitan, and internationalist or quisling and fifth-columnist?

    Can’t he be both?

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  228. @Classical Liberal
    Wow you guys are pathetic. The best you can come up with for a case of "immigrant crime" is a guy who fired a gun where the bullet hit the ground and ricocheted. So it clearly wasn't intentional.

    Read Bryan Caplan:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/08/immigration_and_3.html

    He admitted he shot the gun libtard. In a crowded place. It doesn’t matter idiot if it was an “accident” or not. It being an accident is not an element of the crime (although an awfully weak defence). Shooting a gun off in a crowd that results in a death is criminally negligent. I realize you’re a complete fool-but surely gun confiscating libtards should surely grasp this kindergarten grade concept. Now fuck off.

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  229. Personally, I’m not excited about just how many females a man is able to sleep with or if
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    numerous problem. He is constantly come enthusiastic about one woman that in no way actually observed him.
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