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Jordan B. Peterson Interviews James Damore
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And here’s the transcript.

 
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  1. The whole controversy in a handy info-graphic:

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  2. when asked why google hired him notice he says “they just liked that I was smart and could code”. Hopefully this encourages others to speak out, be contrary. Silicon Valley needs people like James much more than he needs them.

    Read More
  3. Clyde says:

    +++++ ! If he comes from a moneyed background he just might have some top tier lawyers (parent’s friends) advising him even six months ago. Why he was willing to defy googoo and take this leap into the great unknown. I am deeply offended by the imported babu who is the public face of googoo here, in Damore’s dismissal.

    Read More
  4. AndrewR says:

    Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I’m a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.

    Read More
    • Agree: fish, utu, Daniel Chieh
    • Disagree: NickG
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Truth.
    , @scrivener3
    If you become self-employed, live in a country with a 1st Amendment that is taken seriously and live in a must issue concealed carry state, you can pretty much say what you want.
    , @Buzz Mohawk

    Every human group is awful.
     
    Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results.

    Stop being an awful relativist.

    Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves? Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?

    Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don't even comprehend those things? Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup.

    We are better.

    , @Bill
    There's nothing wrong with silencing, mobbing, and censorship of error. It's doing to truth which is a problem.
    , @Corvinus
    "Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I’m a misanthrope. Every human group is awful."

    Exactly!

    Damore had every liberty to write his manifesto, which was well-written and well-thought, and not have been terminated from his employment. I may not agree with some of his points; regardless, the SJW's at Google have put their company at risk, and to me Damore has legitimate grounds to sue.
  5. Possibly, the least angry/hateful/whatever person imaginable, from any ordinary understanding of those words. If Google is picking this hill to die on, they would seem to have chosen … poorly.

    Read More
  6. Clyde says:

    This kid is smart! Check out video at 6:10 where he leans forward and says in a louder voice “except for this”. This brouhaha can only get better.

    Read More
  7. Whose is that third voice beginning at about 8:00?

    Read More
    • Replies: @David
    He's revoltingly Canadian, I can tell you that, but I had the same question.
  8. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The video cuts off while discussions still underway. Any continuation?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Yes, here. It's 51 minutes in its entirety. I had the same problem.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU
  9. Bill P says:

    What a nice young man. He reminds me a lot of my firstborn, or an older, more Italian version of him.

    Solid interview by Dr. Peterson.

    I don’t think Damore is as naive as he looks. For starters, he’s been smart enough to avoid mainstream media, who no doubt are desperate to interview him so they can get to work discrediting him through slander and innuendo. I hope he stays cautious about this. He’s also made a couple interesting choices about who he is willing to talk to.

    Could it be that the mainstream press has finally come to be seen as so biased and partisan that it’s become general knowledge that they are not to be trusted and should in most cases be avoided like a plague?

    Read More
  10. JamesG says:

    I removed one unnamable link from my favorites Bar and replace it with Bing.

    I don’t like boycotts but for Mr Damore’s sake …

    Read More
  11. Psychologist Jordan B. Peterson about James Damore’s Google-paper:

    “I was quite struck by your document. It would have been a document for a well informed research psychologist. You got the highlights accurate as far as I’m concerned.”

    = James Damore’s paper is decent. He stands on firm, scientifically approved ground; that makes this story even more interesting.

    Read More
  12. res says:

    Notice the long list of supporting reference links at YouTube.

    This is interesting starting around 5:10 (direct link, emphasis mine): https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=309

    Q: so why did you do this

    A:
    5:12uh yeah so about a month and a half ago
    5:17I went to one of our diversity summits
    5:20all the unrecorded and super-secret and
    5:25they told me a lot of things that I
    5:28thought just were not right okay what I
    5:31mean unrecorded in super secret well
    5:34they were telling us about a lot of
    5:37these potentially illegal practices that
    5:40they’ve been doing to try to increase
    5:42diversity and what kind of practices
    5:47well basically treating people
    5:50differently based on what
    they’re raised
    5:52or Dildar are a system yeah basically
    5:56oh I see and so and it was ultra secret
    5:59and unrecorded in what manner uh yes I
    6:04most meetings at Google I recorded
    6:06anyone at Google come watch it we’re
    6:09trying to be really open about
    6:10everything except for this they don’t
    6:13want any paper trail for any of these
    6:15things low-key
    6:17why because I think it’s illegal and I
    6:21mean as some of the internal polls
    6:24showed there were a large percent of
    6:26people that agreed with me on the
    6:28document and so if everyone got to see
    6:31this stuff then you know they would
    6:35really

    Text retrieved by using …More> Transcript (not sure if you have to turn subtitles on first).

    Note that this bit was mistranslated: “basically treating people differently based on what they’re raised or Dildar are ” that last bit should have been “their race or gender are”

    It looks like Google has been a very bad company. The legal process should be interesting. From the interview I don’t get the sense Damore is an evil genius out to take down Google (a paraphrase of some anonguy comments in another thread). More of a smart naif who was trying to do the right thing. I assume people here know the type. I resemble it more than might be good ; ) Also relevant is that Damore did not make the memo go viral. He went through channels to a “skeptics group” (~10:15) which publicized it (a breach of confidentiality?).

    Another interesting part is when the anonymous Google employee also there jumps in at 7:45 with a more moderate take: https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=465
    He sounds more polished and politically aware. I wonder what his background is.

    A sample:

    8:16towards obviously there’s going to be a
    8:18distribution of how people follow the
    8:22rules and you know it’s unfortunate to
    8:25hear that it’s you know it could be that
    8:28some people fall to the wrong side of
    8:30that distribution but that certainly
    8:33wouldn’t it would not apply to everybody

    The automatic transcripts are surprisingly good these days. I am surprised it choked on “race and gender” which should be a common phrase in the Current Year.

    P.S. Note that there is currently a technical problem rendering the last 30 minutes of the 50 minute video unviewable. How convenient for YouTube (Google).

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    >I don’t get the sense Damore is an evil genius out to take down Google (a paraphrase of some anonguy comments in another thread). More of a smart naif who was trying to do the right thing.

    Yep, but hopefully some opportunist lawyers get ahold of his case
    , @Arclight
    As Glenn Reynolds says, I look forward to the lawsuit Damore brings and especially the discovery phase.
    , @candid_observer
    These secret, unrecorded diversity summits are going to be a certain PR nightmare and likely legal catastrophe for Google. One expects that many other major tech firms will likewise be vulnerable on the same grounds.

    Boy, this just looks bad.

    And the idea that Google would keep in its employ managers who publicly declare that they have instituted a black list?

    Every bit as bad, if not worse.

    Damore is remarkable in his continued desire to press the case.

  13. What should the smart people at Google do?

    They can quit, but this is costly. Also, it’s no fun.

    They might want to consider sabotaging the company from within.

    Remember, Schopenhauer said that there is no one so powerless that he cannot do harm if roused to do so.

    Active sabotage would not be necessary. Merely passive-aggressiveness. You can go Galt without taking any visible action.

    For example, if you have an idea for improving a process, don’t share it. Don’t make the improvement. To all observation, you have done nothing wrong. You can’t be accused of not volunteering a great idea if no one knows you had that great idea.

    You know that inefficiency which you identified in a procedure, that you are eager to communicate to the company? Don’t communicate it.

    The company hates you and wants you dead.

    Which is really suicidal.

    So, give the company what it truly wants. Slow, painful obsolescence. Let the bastards flail. Be a John Galt: go on internal strike (comparable to internal migration).

    Meanwhile, polish up the resume while collecting your paycheck.

    Final thought: maybe consider leaving tech altogether when you make the jump; your next job should maybe be about saving up for the simple (sane) life.

    Read More
    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    "Schopenhauer said that there is no one so powerless that he cannot do harm if roused to do so."

    Shakespeare was there before:

    "The smallest worm will turn being trodden on,
    And doves will peck in safeguard of their brood."
    , @Cloudbuster
    Been there. Done that. It works very well. It works better the more valuable you are. As one of the major designers/coders of two of their principal software products, it worked great. The company is no more.
  14. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    Here’s the full, 51 minute version. Dr Peterson was able to fix the glitch and get the whole thing up:

    Read More
  15. Read More
    • Replies: @the cruncher
    STEVE, SHOULD FIX -- the one you have featured is a stub, only 21mins. In the notes for it, it points to this one, as being the full 51 min interview:

    https://youtu.be/SEDuVF7kiPU

    I don't know why Jordan left that 21 minute stub up.

  16. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    A comment under the Jordan Peterson, James Damore conversation:

    JJ Vladimir:
    Watching the battle for the future of Western civilization is far more fascinating and relevant than anything else I can name. Videos like this have basically taken the place of movies and TV in my life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NickG

    Watching the battle for the future of Western civilization is far more fascinating and relevant than anything else I can name. Videos like this have basically taken the place of movies and TV in my life.
     
    

    This is so true. Also most TV and movies are utter shite, much of it is narrative punting bollocks.

    Jordan Peterson handled this sublimely well.
  17. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    Near then end of their talk:
    Peterson: “Why did you agree to talk to me?”
    Damore: “I’m a huge fan.”

    It’s not just Trump and the alt-right that’s making things start to go all weird and wobbly for our once comfortable globalist “elite”. Maybe Jordan Peterson is a paid Putin troll too? He does have friendly conversations with Eastern Orthodox artists and clergy at U of T and Richard Spencer’s Russian wife did got to U of T herself. Did Peterson release his video during St. Petersburg working hours?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom from RFNJ
    I know you're making a joke, but I think it's worth saying something about that topic. I've watched about 100 hours of Peterson's 400 hours of online media and he is profoundly critical of totalitarian regimes, especially the Soviets. The Gulag archipelago is one of his most cited books.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple. His first axiom is that if you want to change the world start by changing yourself. His 'clean up your room' meme has become a popular internet joke.

    But beyond that his core advice amounts to:

    'Speak the truth as you see it, with humility, and wait for the world to correct you.'
    'Take responsibility for the biggest thing you can handle and try to fix it.'

    He's hardly the destroyer of world that the left is going to try to make him out to be. But he's also tough as nails and suffers no fools, all with the comparative good manners that Canadians are known for. Yes he sounds like Kermit the Frog and has joked about it. But he's a man for our time in my opinion.
  18. Tiny Duck says:

    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.

    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    Read More
    • Troll: Forbes
    • Replies: @fish

    You get three feet for your two legs on Delta Airlines!

    - Leonard Pitts
     
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    I'm glad to see you've taken my advice and made your lampoons less over the top, TD.

    This is hilariously close to the kind of nonsense these broads https://techcrunch.com/2015/11/10/a-conversation-with-googles-director-of-diversity-and-inclusion/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/06/29/google-diversity-report-danielle-brown/103274478/ might spew, never noticing they have committed the actual offense which they suggest, without any supporting evidence, Damore might possibly, maybe, someday commit.

    My only further recommendation might be to throw in something which makes readers aware these two broads are entirely ignorant of and and anything else bearing on programming or software engineering and have carefully avoided these subjjects from a combination of irrational fear and a rational expectation that they lack the intellectual competence to handle the material.

    Now go for it, TD. I'm counting on you.

    , @Hunsdon
    You're slacking, Tiny.

    No reminder to read Leonard Pitts?
    , @anonymous
    Et in Arcadia ego, Glen Campbell, part time Beach Boy (1936-2017).
    , @Moshe
    Chuckled out loud :)

    The only wrong note was trinitizing "backwards, sexist, racist" it doesn't fit. A true-er on this board would have gone with two.

    But yeah, since you stopped doing "tiny duck" stuff and went full (if light) victimologist I'm jealous. Pure trolling. Must be fun.

    I swear with this crowd I could start doing it tomorrow, on my usual name, and after 2 days of mockery would be seriously believed that those are my views.

    And the best part is that even writing this very comment Wouldn't affect that! See: Scientology, Hamas, Trump...

    The hoi polloi are frustratingly retarded.
    , @Cloudbuster
    Bullcrap.
    , @Jeff
    TD, did you read any of Damore's paper?

    I didn't think so.

    Don't let that stop you.
    , @Luke Lea
    Tiny Duck may be the skunk and the party but at least he's still welcome here!
    , @Unladen Swallow
    He bends over backward to say that people should be judged individually, not as a member of a group, unlike the people who fired him and the people celebrating like you, but never let the facts get in the way of petty moral outrage, Duck. Aren't you still celebrating Hilary's election, Duck? You assured us it was a given, why don't you go back to doing that, you moron.
  19. HBD differences between races are much more subtle and nuanced than differences between sexes which is why Damore was wise to focus on gender. Had he made his post all about race, he would have been toast already.

    Google’s goal is to shut this down as quickly as possible. There is no way they can win so what we will get after the ritualistic firing is a recital of feminist dogma and then back to normal as if nothing ever happened.

    The lesson for those on the right who would like to go about making change, focus on the feminists first. Once they have been deconstructed, then the other identity groups will be far more vulnerable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    The lesson for those on the right who would like to go about making change, focus on the feminists first.
     
    I've also noticed that. For a male liberal audience, taking down feminists is not as difficult as taking down the race equality myth.
    , @the cruncher
    Jordan Peterson does this too. He's race-aware - he mentions higher Ashkenazi IQ in his Personality class - but presumably that's his lowest priority, and it's the toughest so he's not wrong to leave it to last, or a later generation even.

    Sympathy for Google: if they'd let Damore stay, someone else would eventually write a memo on race.

    (I saw your thanks about the longer video Steve, you can delete that whole sub-thread if you like - it adds nothing. I just saw someone else had posted the longer version but you still had the shorter one up, thus the 'yelling'.)

  20. I think Sundar Pichai is a naturalized US citizen. If so, Jeff Sessions should be denaturalization proceedings against him immediately. Pichai does not believe in the First Amendment. Send him home! Let’s see if Google can find an American to do Pichai’s job.

    Read More
  21. @res
    Notice the long list of supporting reference links at YouTube.

    This is interesting starting around 5:10 (direct link, emphasis mine): https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=309

    Q: so why did you do this

    A:
    5:12uh yeah so about a month and a half ago
    5:17I went to one of our diversity summits
    5:20all the unrecorded and super-secret and
    5:25they told me a lot of things that I
    5:28thought just were not right okay what I
    5:31mean unrecorded in super secret well
    5:34they were telling us about a lot of
    5:37these potentially illegal practices that
    5:40they've been doing to try to increase
    5:42diversity and what kind of practices
    5:47well basically treating people
    5:50differently based on what
    they're raised
    5:52or Dildar are a system yeah basically
    5:56oh I see and so and it was ultra secret
    5:59and unrecorded in what manner uh yes I
    6:04most meetings at Google I recorded
    6:06anyone at Google come watch it we're
    6:09trying to be really open about
    6:10everything except for this they don't
    6:13want any paper trail for any of these
    6:15things low-key
    6:17why because I think it's illegal and I
    6:21mean as some of the internal polls
    6:24showed there were a large percent of
    6:26people that agreed with me on the
    6:28document and so if everyone got to see
    6:31this stuff then you know they would
    6:35really
     
    Text retrieved by using ...More> Transcript (not sure if you have to turn subtitles on first).

    Note that this bit was mistranslated: "basically treating people differently based on what they're raised or Dildar are " that last bit should have been "their race or gender are"

    It looks like Google has been a very bad company. The legal process should be interesting. From the interview I don't get the sense Damore is an evil genius out to take down Google (a paraphrase of some anonguy comments in another thread). More of a smart naif who was trying to do the right thing. I assume people here know the type. I resemble it more than might be good ; ) Also relevant is that Damore did not make the memo go viral. He went through channels to a "skeptics group" (~10:15) which publicized it (a breach of confidentiality?).

    Another interesting part is when the anonymous Google employee also there jumps in at 7:45 with a more moderate take: https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=465
    He sounds more polished and politically aware. I wonder what his background is.

    A sample:

    8:16towards obviously there's going to be a
    8:18distribution of how people follow the
    8:22rules and you know it's unfortunate to
    8:25hear that it's you know it could be that
    8:28some people fall to the wrong side of
    8:30that distribution but that certainly
    8:33wouldn't it would not apply to everybody
     
    The automatic transcripts are surprisingly good these days. I am surprised it choked on "race and gender" which should be a common phrase in the Current Year.

    P.S. Note that there is currently a technical problem rendering the last 30 minutes of the 50 minute video unviewable. How convenient for YouTube (Google).

    >I don’t get the sense Damore is an evil genius out to take down Google (a paraphrase of some anonguy comments in another thread). More of a smart naif who was trying to do the right thing.

    Yep, but hopefully some opportunist lawyers get ahold of his case

    Read More
  22. Just a thought… Considering how carefully prepared Damore’s effort seems to be, and considering that software types seem to be aging-out careerwise earlier and earlier, might Damore be positioning himself for a spot in the professional commentariat?

    (Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing.)

    Read More
  23. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    What we need is a Mental Nudist Colony, a place where all things can be discussed without inhibitions.

    Progs focus on physical nudity, but mental nudity is more important for honesty.

    After all, the Emperor has no clothes. What we need to do is undress our inhibitions and say so.

    I recall some Jewish kid did a parody of Beatles song in 7th grade:

    Hey Jude, We saw you Nude
    Don’t Try to Fake It
    We Saw You Naked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clark Westwood

    What we need is a Mental Nudist Colony, a place where all things can be discussed without inhibitions.
     
    Aren't you describing Unz Review?
    , @Stan Adams
    Howard Stern once did a Monica Lewinsky parody song called "I Wanna Use My Mouth" that borrowed the melody from a certain famous Beatles tune.
    , @Moshe
    I've only met a couple of guys and just one girl in my life who would rrily enjoy a mental nudist colony.

    Truth be told even I would want quotas.

    Even if you're open to new thoughts beliefs and experiences and are excited to tey them out, we don't need to many of you if you are stupid, uncreative, passionless, etc.

    Also if everyone happens to have voted for Trump you don't have enough genuine diversity, etc.

    Remember, most people are dumb and like bacteria they will colonize our safe space. I would of course want a few from these groups, etc. But you know, limits.

    Also only entirely sexually undesirable women allowed. Yes we would be missing out on a lot of diversity but it's better than introducing sexual and romantic desire into our nudist colony too.
  24. @Cagey Beast
    Near then end of their talk:
    Peterson: "Why did you agree to talk to me?"
    Damore: "I'm a huge fan."

    It's not just Trump and the alt-right that's making things start to go all weird and wobbly for our once comfortable globalist "elite". Maybe Jordan Peterson is a paid Putin troll too? He does have friendly conversations with Eastern Orthodox artists and clergy at U of T and Richard Spencer's Russian wife did got to U of T herself. Did Peterson release his video during St. Petersburg working hours?

    I know you’re making a joke, but I think it’s worth saying something about that topic. I’ve watched about 100 hours of Peterson’s 400 hours of online media and he is profoundly critical of totalitarian regimes, especially the Soviets. The Gulag archipelago is one of his most cited books.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple. His first axiom is that if you want to change the world start by changing yourself. His ‘clean up your room’ meme has become a popular internet joke.

    But beyond that his core advice amounts to:

    ‘Speak the truth as you see it, with humility, and wait for the world to correct you.’
    ‘Take responsibility for the biggest thing you can handle and try to fix it.’

    He’s hardly the destroyer of world that the left is going to try to make him out to be. But he’s also tough as nails and suffers no fools, all with the comparative good manners that Canadians are known for. Yes he sounds like Kermit the Frog and has joked about it. But he’s a man for our time in my opinion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moshe
    I'm likely wrong about this but I only watched a couple of videos from him about a month ago and I found his True Believers to be as odd as aliens.

    I mean like a mutant form of autism odd.
    , @Verymuchalive
    Very interesting that his most quoted source was the greatest Russian Orthodox writer of the 20th Century, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. After the collapse of the USSR, the West quickly dropped Solzhenitsyn because he would not agree to the Pillage of Russia and the sordid secularism promoted by them. Obviously, Dr Peterson is no ordinary " liberal", if at all.
    , @Anonymous
    I think Bill Gates sounds much more like Kermit the Frog.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSbb0EWxWI
    , @Opinionator
    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple.

    "Shtick" is pejorative.
  25. @Prof. Woland
    HBD differences between races are much more subtle and nuanced than differences between sexes which is why Damore was wise to focus on gender. Had he made his post all about race, he would have been toast already.

    Google's goal is to shut this down as quickly as possible. There is no way they can win so what we will get after the ritualistic firing is a recital of feminist dogma and then back to normal as if nothing ever happened.

    The lesson for those on the right who would like to go about making change, focus on the feminists first. Once they have been deconstructed, then the other identity groups will be far more vulnerable.

    The lesson for those on the right who would like to go about making change, focus on the feminists first.

    I’ve also noticed that. For a male liberal audience, taking down feminists is not as difficult as taking down the race equality myth.

    Read More
  26. I’m struck by how likable and decent Damore seems to be.

    What parent wouldn’t be proud to have a son like this?

    Read More
  27. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Googly Lies make for googly eyes.

    Someone should create a search engine called Piggle.
    Its profits can be used to save pigs from mistreatment and slaughter.

    Saving the Pig should be a patriotic theme.

    “They can’t take away my PIGNITY. Because the greatest hog of all is happy to see me.”

    https://youtu.be/QbKSOmocnbU?t=1m43s

    Read More
  28. Karl D says:

    Completely OT, but appropriately iSteve themed –

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/09/magazine/what-a-fraternity-hazing-death-revealed-about-the-painful-search-for-an-asian-american-identity.html?_r=0

    A group of Chinese-American kids accidentally kills another Chinese-American kid during a college initiation ritual in the Poconos. The Korean-American NYT reporter writes a long article filled with references to historical injustices inflicted on all manner of Asian-Americans…

    Read More
  29. SidVic says:

    Peterson continues his rampage! What a treasure. The comments here are encouraging; clearly people have begun to wake up to what we are up against. I hope that this Damore has his shit together and is a tough bastard. I agree with Bill P that he may have a more sophisticated understanding of his situation than his aw shucks persona would suggest. Whatever the case J Peterson is a perfect mentor for this guy.

    I am shocked by the reaction to Damore’s rather even-handed and rather innocuous memo. I have sent it out so people can actually read the damn thing.

    Read More
  30. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    You get three feet for your two legs on Delta Airlines!

    - Leonard Pitts

    Read More
  31. @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    I’m glad to see you’ve taken my advice and made your lampoons less over the top, TD.

    This is hilariously close to the kind of nonsense these broads https://techcrunch.com/2015/11/10/a-conversation-with-googles-director-of-diversity-and-inclusion/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/06/29/google-diversity-report-danielle-brown/103274478/ might spew, never noticing they have committed the actual offense which they suggest, without any supporting evidence, Damore might possibly, maybe, someday commit.

    My only further recommendation might be to throw in something which makes readers aware these two broads are entirely ignorant of and and anything else bearing on programming or software engineering and have carefully avoided these subjjects from a combination of irrational fear and a rational expectation that they lack the intellectual competence to handle the material.

    Now go for it, TD. I’m counting on you.

    Read More
  32. @Anon
    What we need is a Mental Nudist Colony, a place where all things can be discussed without inhibitions.

    Progs focus on physical nudity, but mental nudity is more important for honesty.

    After all, the Emperor has no clothes. What we need to do is undress our inhibitions and say so.

    I recall some Jewish kid did a parody of Beatles song in 7th grade:

    Hey Jude, We saw you Nude
    Don't Try to Fake It
    We Saw You Naked.

    What we need is a Mental Nudist Colony, a place where all things can be discussed without inhibitions.

    Aren’t you describing Unz Review?

    Read More
  33. @AndrewR
    Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I'm a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.

    Truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WR
    Daniel Chieh,

    As a rule I find your comments very insightful but in this instance I disagree with you. AndrewR is right regarding the fact that we lack power. Most of us submit comments anonymously and will continue to do so until the day it is safe to express opinions that deviate from leftist dogma without risking gainful employment. On the other hand, I don't think that Isteve commenters would become potential authoritarians if they had power. My guess is that in general people here are individualists by nature. This can be seen by the diversity of opinions (no pun intended) that one often encounters in the threads. I believe that what unites the dissident right is the realization that the cultural left won't stop until the last person who dares express an opinion contrary to their dogma is silenced. I don't want this future for my children.

    Personally I don't have ill will towards any of the various identity groups that the left forcefully protects. I am tangentially a member of one of these groups and now and then I befriend particular individuals of other "victim" groups. However, I don't want to be forced to associate with those I don't like, pretend that they have qualities that they lack, celebrate their phony achievements or be held financially responsible for their well being. Yet, this has become increasingly difficult in the past ten years. For that reason I consider that what Steve does is very important. He exposes the lies spread by lefitsts ideologues in a humorous way and offers a shelter for thoughtcrime.
  34. Hunsdon says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    You’re slacking, Tiny.

    No reminder to read Leonard Pitts?

    Read More
  35. blah_blah says:

    Hmm… think this could be a set up and used by google to defeat the current discrimination class action lawsuit by setting in court a precedent on biological difference?

    Read More
  36. Hmm… think this could be a set up and used by google to defeat the current discrimination class action lawsuit by setting in court a precedent on biological difference?

    Read More
  37. anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer
    @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    Et in Arcadia ego, Glen Campbell, part time Beach Boy (1936-2017).

    Read More
  38. scrivener3 says: • Website
    @AndrewR
    Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I'm a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.

    If you become self-employed, live in a country with a 1st Amendment that is taken seriously and live in a must issue concealed carry state, you can pretty much say what you want.

    Read More
  39. @Anon
    What we need is a Mental Nudist Colony, a place where all things can be discussed without inhibitions.

    Progs focus on physical nudity, but mental nudity is more important for honesty.

    After all, the Emperor has no clothes. What we need to do is undress our inhibitions and say so.

    I recall some Jewish kid did a parody of Beatles song in 7th grade:

    Hey Jude, We saw you Nude
    Don't Try to Fake It
    We Saw You Naked.

    Howard Stern once did a Monica Lewinsky parody song called “I Wanna Use My Mouth” that borrowed the melody from a certain famous Beatles tune.

    Read More
  40. AndrewR says:

    In further depressing news, YouTube’s transwoman CEO is really, really, really, really really stupid and/or dishonest:

    http://fortune.com/2017/08/09/google-diversity-memo-wojcicki/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    Susan Wojcicki is not a "transwoman."

    Why are you lying about this, AndrewR?
    , @Lot
    She is an actual woman who has five children. With hard work and determination, she rose to the top of a giant company her brother in law started.

    It appears those five kids will be second generation half Jews.
    , @Cloudbuster
    The funny and ironic thing about her article is that she is the poster child for a bright, driven woman who chose not to go into STEM. Her father is a physicist, she's privileged, she had boundless opportunity -- studied history and literature at Harvard. Her master's degrees are in business and economics. Her career has been completely business, marketing and advertising roles. She's not a coder, not an engineer, but it's reasonable to think she could have suceeded as a coder. But it wasn't what she wanted.

    She's a walking example of Damore's thesis.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    She's dishonest.
  41. WR says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Truth.

    Daniel Chieh,

    As a rule I find your comments very insightful but in this instance I disagree with you. AndrewR is right regarding the fact that we lack power. Most of us submit comments anonymously and will continue to do so until the day it is safe to express opinions that deviate from leftist dogma without risking gainful employment. On the other hand, I don’t think that Isteve commenters would become potential authoritarians if they had power. My guess is that in general people here are individualists by nature. This can be seen by the diversity of opinions (no pun intended) that one often encounters in the threads. I believe that what unites the dissident right is the realization that the cultural left won’t stop until the last person who dares express an opinion contrary to their dogma is silenced. I don’t want this future for my children.

    Personally I don’t have ill will towards any of the various identity groups that the left forcefully protects. I am tangentially a member of one of these groups and now and then I befriend particular individuals of other “victim” groups. However, I don’t want to be forced to associate with those I don’t like, pretend that they have qualities that they lack, celebrate their phony achievements or be held financially responsible for their well being. Yet, this has become increasingly difficult in the past ten years. For that reason I consider that what Steve does is very important. He exposes the lies spread by lefitsts ideologues in a humorous way and offers a shelter for thoughtcrime.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I just have a pretty low opinion of humanity, and it really does feel like that every movement is ultimately overtaken by its most radical fringes. Like you, I also am a member of one of those "identity groups" and I actually have no problem indulging the existence of radical feminists, etc. so as long as they don't dominate the conversation. I think radfems, Gore Vidals, Westboro Baptist Church members and literal Nazis should all have a place to exist, and in a way, they all have something to contribute to our thought process.

    In practice, though, the radicals tend to take over the conversation and immediately seek to impose their version of truth.
    , @Melendwyr
    The day will probably never come when anyone can say anything publicly without risking their jobs... for the simple reason that employers have freedoms, too, and anyone can potential be an employer.

    The only way airing any point of view at all would be "safe" would be in a totalitarian state where basic rights of association have been abolished. We're getting there, but we're not quite there yet.

    I pray that day will never come.
  42. Moshe says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    Chuckled out loud :)

    The only wrong note was trinitizing “backwards, sexist, racist” it doesn’t fit. A true-er on this board would have gone with two.

    But yeah, since you stopped doing “tiny duck” stuff and went full (if light) victimologist I’m jealous. Pure trolling. Must be fun.

    I swear with this crowd I could start doing it tomorrow, on my usual name, and after 2 days of mockery would be seriously believed that those are my views.

    And the best part is that even writing this very comment Wouldn’t affect that! See: Scientology, Hamas, Trump…

    The hoi polloi are frustratingly retarded.

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  43. Moshe says:
    @Anon
    What we need is a Mental Nudist Colony, a place where all things can be discussed without inhibitions.

    Progs focus on physical nudity, but mental nudity is more important for honesty.

    After all, the Emperor has no clothes. What we need to do is undress our inhibitions and say so.

    I recall some Jewish kid did a parody of Beatles song in 7th grade:

    Hey Jude, We saw you Nude
    Don't Try to Fake It
    We Saw You Naked.

    I’ve only met a couple of guys and just one girl in my life who would rrily enjoy a mental nudist colony.

    Truth be told even I would want quotas.

    Even if you’re open to new thoughts beliefs and experiences and are excited to tey them out, we don’t need to many of you if you are stupid, uncreative, passionless, etc.

    Also if everyone happens to have voted for Trump you don’t have enough genuine diversity, etc.

    Remember, most people are dumb and like bacteria they will colonize our safe space. I would of course want a few from these groups, etc. But you know, limits.

    Also only entirely sexually undesirable women allowed. Yes we would be missing out on a lot of diversity but it’s better than introducing sexual and romantic desire into our nudist colony too.

    Read More
    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Mental nudist colony is a terrible idea. I usually have my face in a girl's a-- (16-36) or frontwise (16-60) or not paying attention (to men) or shouting to shut up (black men and leftists). I suspect most straight guys are the same.
  44. @AndrewR
    Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I'm a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.

    Every human group is awful.

    Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results.

    Stop being an awful relativist.

    Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves? Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?

    Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don’t even comprehend those things? Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup.

    We are better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I never said otherwise.

    If I said "everywhere north of the arctic circle is cold" that doesn't mean I don't realize some places are colder than others.
    , @Corvinus
    "Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results. Stop being an awful relativist."

    You just proved AndrewR's point.

    "Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves?"

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?

    "Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?"

    Who are these "savages" you are referring to? the Hmong perhaps--really?

    "Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don’t even comprehend those things?

    WASPs in the 1800's felt the same way regarding the non-WASP "hordes" than "invaded" our borders. Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", as well as our constitutional form of government.

    "Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup. We are better."

    Wh0 specifically is this "we"?
  45. Sorry that I’m too idle to read the original document, but did Damore stick entirely to the issue of gender to the exclusion of race?

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  46. Moshe says:
    @Tom from RFNJ
    I know you're making a joke, but I think it's worth saying something about that topic. I've watched about 100 hours of Peterson's 400 hours of online media and he is profoundly critical of totalitarian regimes, especially the Soviets. The Gulag archipelago is one of his most cited books.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple. His first axiom is that if you want to change the world start by changing yourself. His 'clean up your room' meme has become a popular internet joke.

    But beyond that his core advice amounts to:

    'Speak the truth as you see it, with humility, and wait for the world to correct you.'
    'Take responsibility for the biggest thing you can handle and try to fix it.'

    He's hardly the destroyer of world that the left is going to try to make him out to be. But he's also tough as nails and suffers no fools, all with the comparative good manners that Canadians are known for. Yes he sounds like Kermit the Frog and has joked about it. But he's a man for our time in my opinion.

    I’m likely wrong about this but I only watched a couple of videos from him about a month ago and I found his True Believers to be as odd as aliens.

    I mean like a mutant form of autism odd.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I'm guessing it's a clash of civilizations, judging from your screen name.
    , @The True and Original David
    That's not Peterson's fault. The kids are not alright these days (you must have noticed). Most are bereft of even the most basic guidance (family/ religious/ philosophical/ cultural/ moral/ ethical/ historical, you name it). It's better they get it from a classical liberal who tells them to read Freud, Arendt, Jung, and Solzhenitsyn than from a Hare Krishna or the friendly neighborhood imam. There are bigger things to worry about.
  47. AndrewR says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Every human group is awful.
     
    Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results.

    Stop being an awful relativist.

    Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves? Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?

    Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don't even comprehend those things? Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup.

    We are better.

    I never said otherwise.

    If I said “everywhere north of the arctic circle is cold” that doesn’t mean I don’t realize some places are colder than others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Leftists have historically proven to be far more awful than the rest. It is a mistake to apply what I see as a form of cultural relativism toward groups of leftist-thinkers and enforcers. Their very paradigm contains the seeds of intolerance.

    But hey, I understand why you are a misanthrope. I'm a cynic born of experience. People can be awful, some more than others. That's why we need to preserve and promote our classic, Western way that curbs the inevitably awful outcomes of awful people (while preserving their freedom) rather than the Globalist, Elitist way currently in favor and power -- which assumes that human nature can be changed through controls on freedom and that humans are interchangeably good/bad.

  48. Vinteuil says:
    @The True and Original David
    What should the smart people at Google do?

    They can quit, but this is costly. Also, it's no fun.

    They might want to consider sabotaging the company from within.

    Remember, Schopenhauer said that there is no one so powerless that he cannot do harm if roused to do so.

    Active sabotage would not be necessary. Merely passive-aggressiveness. You can go Galt without taking any visible action.

    For example, if you have an idea for improving a process, don't share it. Don't make the improvement. To all observation, you have done nothing wrong. You can't be accused of not volunteering a great idea if no one knows you had that great idea.

    You know that inefficiency which you identified in a procedure, that you are eager to communicate to the company? Don't communicate it.

    The company hates you and wants you dead.

    Which is really suicidal.

    So, give the company what it truly wants. Slow, painful obsolescence. Let the bastards flail. Be a John Galt: go on internal strike (comparable to internal migration).

    Meanwhile, polish up the resume while collecting your paycheck.

    Final thought: maybe consider leaving tech altogether when you make the jump; your next job should maybe be about saving up for the simple (sane) life.

    “Schopenhauer said that there is no one so powerless that he cannot do harm if roused to do so.”

    Shakespeare was there before:

    “The smallest worm will turn being trodden on,
    And doves will peck in safeguard of their brood.”

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  49. @Tom from RFNJ
    I know you're making a joke, but I think it's worth saying something about that topic. I've watched about 100 hours of Peterson's 400 hours of online media and he is profoundly critical of totalitarian regimes, especially the Soviets. The Gulag archipelago is one of his most cited books.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple. His first axiom is that if you want to change the world start by changing yourself. His 'clean up your room' meme has become a popular internet joke.

    But beyond that his core advice amounts to:

    'Speak the truth as you see it, with humility, and wait for the world to correct you.'
    'Take responsibility for the biggest thing you can handle and try to fix it.'

    He's hardly the destroyer of world that the left is going to try to make him out to be. But he's also tough as nails and suffers no fools, all with the comparative good manners that Canadians are known for. Yes he sounds like Kermit the Frog and has joked about it. But he's a man for our time in my opinion.

    Very interesting that his most quoted source was the greatest Russian Orthodox writer of the 20th Century, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. After the collapse of the USSR, the West quickly dropped Solzhenitsyn because he would not agree to the Pillage of Russia and the sordid secularism promoted by them. Obviously, Dr Peterson is no ordinary ” liberal”, if at all.

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  50. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Tom from RFNJ
    I know you're making a joke, but I think it's worth saying something about that topic. I've watched about 100 hours of Peterson's 400 hours of online media and he is profoundly critical of totalitarian regimes, especially the Soviets. The Gulag archipelago is one of his most cited books.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple. His first axiom is that if you want to change the world start by changing yourself. His 'clean up your room' meme has become a popular internet joke.

    But beyond that his core advice amounts to:

    'Speak the truth as you see it, with humility, and wait for the world to correct you.'
    'Take responsibility for the biggest thing you can handle and try to fix it.'

    He's hardly the destroyer of world that the left is going to try to make him out to be. But he's also tough as nails and suffers no fools, all with the comparative good manners that Canadians are known for. Yes he sounds like Kermit the Frog and has joked about it. But he's a man for our time in my opinion.

    I think Bill Gates sounds much more like Kermit the Frog.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bhSbb0EWxWI

    Read More
  51. Steve

    Off topic…Moon Duchin…..start googling Steve…

    Don’t worry about the flood of highly racialized Nonwhite Legal Immigrant Democratic Party Voters….for Voronois diagrams(these math critters are kind of like open sets in topology) will make our voting system fake and balanced..opps!!…I mean fair and balanced even if Whitey is voted into a racial minority by the post-1965 nonwhite Democratic Party Voting Bloc. Google the upcomming Tufts University conference….staring Moon Duchin…..

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  52. Arclight says:
    @res
    Notice the long list of supporting reference links at YouTube.

    This is interesting starting around 5:10 (direct link, emphasis mine): https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=309

    Q: so why did you do this

    A:
    5:12uh yeah so about a month and a half ago
    5:17I went to one of our diversity summits
    5:20all the unrecorded and super-secret and
    5:25they told me a lot of things that I
    5:28thought just were not right okay what I
    5:31mean unrecorded in super secret well
    5:34they were telling us about a lot of
    5:37these potentially illegal practices that
    5:40they've been doing to try to increase
    5:42diversity and what kind of practices
    5:47well basically treating people
    5:50differently based on what
    they're raised
    5:52or Dildar are a system yeah basically
    5:56oh I see and so and it was ultra secret
    5:59and unrecorded in what manner uh yes I
    6:04most meetings at Google I recorded
    6:06anyone at Google come watch it we're
    6:09trying to be really open about
    6:10everything except for this they don't
    6:13want any paper trail for any of these
    6:15things low-key
    6:17why because I think it's illegal and I
    6:21mean as some of the internal polls
    6:24showed there were a large percent of
    6:26people that agreed with me on the
    6:28document and so if everyone got to see
    6:31this stuff then you know they would
    6:35really
     
    Text retrieved by using ...More> Transcript (not sure if you have to turn subtitles on first).

    Note that this bit was mistranslated: "basically treating people differently based on what they're raised or Dildar are " that last bit should have been "their race or gender are"

    It looks like Google has been a very bad company. The legal process should be interesting. From the interview I don't get the sense Damore is an evil genius out to take down Google (a paraphrase of some anonguy comments in another thread). More of a smart naif who was trying to do the right thing. I assume people here know the type. I resemble it more than might be good ; ) Also relevant is that Damore did not make the memo go viral. He went through channels to a "skeptics group" (~10:15) which publicized it (a breach of confidentiality?).

    Another interesting part is when the anonymous Google employee also there jumps in at 7:45 with a more moderate take: https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=465
    He sounds more polished and politically aware. I wonder what his background is.

    A sample:

    8:16towards obviously there's going to be a
    8:18distribution of how people follow the
    8:22rules and you know it's unfortunate to
    8:25hear that it's you know it could be that
    8:28some people fall to the wrong side of
    8:30that distribution but that certainly
    8:33wouldn't it would not apply to everybody
     
    The automatic transcripts are surprisingly good these days. I am surprised it choked on "race and gender" which should be a common phrase in the Current Year.

    P.S. Note that there is currently a technical problem rendering the last 30 minutes of the 50 minute video unviewable. How convenient for YouTube (Google).

    As Glenn Reynolds says, I look forward to the lawsuit Damore brings and especially the discovery phase.

    Read More
  53. I’ve no idea who Margaret Heffernan is, but I’m pleased to see her piece of lying effrontery in the FT is getting rightfully caned in the comments (which are now closed).

    “A few months ago, I was talking to a venture capitalist from a leading Silicon Valley company. I asked how concerned he was that the Valley now came across as pale, male and somewhat stale. He was complacent. As far as pale was concerned, he told me Google was “virtually an Indian company”. Male bias? That was not the Valley’s fault; women just would not knuckle down and get engineering degrees. When I pointed out that I had run software companies without being able to write a line of code, he shrugged and turned back to fine-tuning his PowerPoint slides.

    I thought of this nonchalance as the furore broke over Google employee James Damore, whose long email rant against diversity programmes got him fired. The engineer railed against unconscious bias training (mandatory for promotion) and many other policies and processes that he found oppressive, in a rambling, confused mash-up of outdated science and entitlement.”

    Sounds like she pinched that last bit from Prof. Bogost.

    https://www.ft.com/content/a9758510-7cfe-11e7-ab01-a13271d1ee9c#comments

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  54. @Tom from RFNJ
    I know you're making a joke, but I think it's worth saying something about that topic. I've watched about 100 hours of Peterson's 400 hours of online media and he is profoundly critical of totalitarian regimes, especially the Soviets. The Gulag archipelago is one of his most cited books.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple. His first axiom is that if you want to change the world start by changing yourself. His 'clean up your room' meme has become a popular internet joke.

    But beyond that his core advice amounts to:

    'Speak the truth as you see it, with humility, and wait for the world to correct you.'
    'Take responsibility for the biggest thing you can handle and try to fix it.'

    He's hardly the destroyer of world that the left is going to try to make him out to be. But he's also tough as nails and suffers no fools, all with the comparative good manners that Canadians are known for. Yes he sounds like Kermit the Frog and has joked about it. But he's a man for our time in my opinion.

    His big schtick is suggesting that people should be leading a life that has meaning, and his recipe for doing that is profoundly simple.

    “Shtick” is pejorative.

    Read More
  55. David says:
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Whose is that third voice beginning at about 8:00?

    He’s revoltingly Canadian, I can tell you that, but I had the same question.

    Read More
  56. Similarly in the Telegraph a piece of lying clickbait gets the same treatement in the comments. I guess that just shows how deep-rooted sexism is, or something.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/08/08/googles-sexism-row-not-one-off-silicon-valley-has-deep-set/

    “Computer engineer James Damore drew on now-defunct gender stereotypes and pseudo-biology..”

    No idea who Cara MacGoogan is, or what her biology qualifications are, but she could stand to lose a few pounds, as could many of us. A quick look at linkedin tells me she studied biology and computing at Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, that famous tech hub. You’d think she’d at least have learned the difference between “deep-set” as in “his deep-set blue eyes” and “deep-seated” as in Ms MacGoogan herself. I may be being unfair, the wrong usage is in the headline and the Telegraph doesn’t seem to do sub-editing any more.

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  57. @res
    Notice the long list of supporting reference links at YouTube.

    This is interesting starting around 5:10 (direct link, emphasis mine): https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=309

    Q: so why did you do this

    A:
    5:12uh yeah so about a month and a half ago
    5:17I went to one of our diversity summits
    5:20all the unrecorded and super-secret and
    5:25they told me a lot of things that I
    5:28thought just were not right okay what I
    5:31mean unrecorded in super secret well
    5:34they were telling us about a lot of
    5:37these potentially illegal practices that
    5:40they've been doing to try to increase
    5:42diversity and what kind of practices
    5:47well basically treating people
    5:50differently based on what
    they're raised
    5:52or Dildar are a system yeah basically
    5:56oh I see and so and it was ultra secret
    5:59and unrecorded in what manner uh yes I
    6:04most meetings at Google I recorded
    6:06anyone at Google come watch it we're
    6:09trying to be really open about
    6:10everything except for this they don't
    6:13want any paper trail for any of these
    6:15things low-key
    6:17why because I think it's illegal and I
    6:21mean as some of the internal polls
    6:24showed there were a large percent of
    6:26people that agreed with me on the
    6:28document and so if everyone got to see
    6:31this stuff then you know they would
    6:35really
     
    Text retrieved by using ...More> Transcript (not sure if you have to turn subtitles on first).

    Note that this bit was mistranslated: "basically treating people differently based on what they're raised or Dildar are " that last bit should have been "their race or gender are"

    It looks like Google has been a very bad company. The legal process should be interesting. From the interview I don't get the sense Damore is an evil genius out to take down Google (a paraphrase of some anonguy comments in another thread). More of a smart naif who was trying to do the right thing. I assume people here know the type. I resemble it more than might be good ; ) Also relevant is that Damore did not make the memo go viral. He went through channels to a "skeptics group" (~10:15) which publicized it (a breach of confidentiality?).

    Another interesting part is when the anonymous Google employee also there jumps in at 7:45 with a more moderate take: https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=465
    He sounds more polished and politically aware. I wonder what his background is.

    A sample:

    8:16towards obviously there's going to be a
    8:18distribution of how people follow the
    8:22rules and you know it's unfortunate to
    8:25hear that it's you know it could be that
    8:28some people fall to the wrong side of
    8:30that distribution but that certainly
    8:33wouldn't it would not apply to everybody
     
    The automatic transcripts are surprisingly good these days. I am surprised it choked on "race and gender" which should be a common phrase in the Current Year.

    P.S. Note that there is currently a technical problem rendering the last 30 minutes of the 50 minute video unviewable. How convenient for YouTube (Google).

    These secret, unrecorded diversity summits are going to be a certain PR nightmare and likely legal catastrophe for Google. One expects that many other major tech firms will likewise be vulnerable on the same grounds.

    Boy, this just looks bad.

    And the idea that Google would keep in its employ managers who publicly declare that they have instituted a black list?

    Every bit as bad, if not worse.

    Damore is remarkable in his continued desire to press the case.

    Read More
  58. Vinteuil says:
    @AndrewR
    In further depressing news, YouTube's transwoman CEO is really, really, really, really really stupid and/or dishonest:

    http://fortune.com/2017/08/09/google-diversity-memo-wojcicki/

    Susan Wojcicki is not a “transwoman.”

    Why are you lying about this, AndrewR?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    It's joke. Why are your panties in a wad, Venteuil?
  59. @The True and Original David
    What should the smart people at Google do?

    They can quit, but this is costly. Also, it's no fun.

    They might want to consider sabotaging the company from within.

    Remember, Schopenhauer said that there is no one so powerless that he cannot do harm if roused to do so.

    Active sabotage would not be necessary. Merely passive-aggressiveness. You can go Galt without taking any visible action.

    For example, if you have an idea for improving a process, don't share it. Don't make the improvement. To all observation, you have done nothing wrong. You can't be accused of not volunteering a great idea if no one knows you had that great idea.

    You know that inefficiency which you identified in a procedure, that you are eager to communicate to the company? Don't communicate it.

    The company hates you and wants you dead.

    Which is really suicidal.

    So, give the company what it truly wants. Slow, painful obsolescence. Let the bastards flail. Be a John Galt: go on internal strike (comparable to internal migration).

    Meanwhile, polish up the resume while collecting your paycheck.

    Final thought: maybe consider leaving tech altogether when you make the jump; your next job should maybe be about saving up for the simple (sane) life.

    Been there. Done that. It works very well. It works better the more valuable you are. As one of the major designers/coders of two of their principal software products, it worked great. The company is no more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    Years ago IRS computer systems were reported to be very dysfunctional. If true, I wonder if passive resistance, non-volunteering, and the like were involved. One has hopes, but...
  60. @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    Bullcrap.

    Read More
  61. Jeff says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    TD, did you read any of Damore’s paper?

    I didn’t think so.

    Don’t let that stop you.

    Read More
  62. Bill says:
    @AndrewR
    Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I'm a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.

    There’s nothing wrong with silencing, mobbing, and censorship of error. It’s doing to truth which is a problem.

    Read More
    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    If there were an utterly reliable way to distinguish truth and error, your argument might have merit. As things stand in the real world, you're an enemy of attempts to find truth, which makes you an enemy of truth itself.

    Please identity yourself with your real name and location, so that as per your beliefs, you may be silenced, mobbed, and censored.
  63. @Lot
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-09/as-a-woman-in-tech-i-realized-these-are-not-my-people

    McArdle defends Damore's thesis.

    I’m grateful for this, but there’s still an awful lot of silliness at the end.

    Read More
  64. @anon
    The video cuts off while discussions still underway. Any continuation?

    Yes, here. It’s 51 minutes in its entirety. I had the same problem.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU

    Read More
  65. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Was Damore aware of Stephanie Grace case at Harvard?

    Another case of ‘memo’ in form of email snitched to higher authority by resentful ninny.

    http://abovethelaw.com/2011/09/brand-new-racist-blog-from-harvard-law-student/

    A strange paradox here.

    In order for institutions to practice ‘racism’, they must speak out against it.

    Old Christian trick. In order for the powerful to justify power and privilege, they had to denounce such in the name of Jesus. So, the rich popes and kings were supposedly all serving the humble teachings of Jesus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Stephanie Grace case that wound up with the Harvard Law School student being denounced by the Harvard Law School dean was nuts. The leaked email came from a romantic rival over a boy's affections. Read closely, it was apparent that it was the rival who leaked the email who was very pro "The Bell Curve" and Grace was thoughtfully ambivalent.
  66. Lot says:
    @AndrewR
    In further depressing news, YouTube's transwoman CEO is really, really, really, really really stupid and/or dishonest:

    http://fortune.com/2017/08/09/google-diversity-memo-wojcicki/

    She is an actual woman who has five children. With hard work and determination, she rose to the top of a giant company her brother in law started.

    It appears those five kids will be second generation half Jews.

    Read More
  67. IHTG says:

    Hey hey, your favorite Aztec Warrior Princess is in the news! https://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/our-revolution-has-a-problem-with-the-dictatorial-arrogant

    When they arrived, she said, barricades blocked the entrance steps and a handful of DNC staffers stood waiting outside. “I was absolutely stunned,” Turner said. “For them to be that tone-deaf, or that arrogant, to think that it’s OK to put up a barricade so that the people can’t even — I mean, we were not even good enough to stand on their stairs.”

    DNC spokesperson Xochitl Hinojosa, citing the current political climate in Washington, said barricades are put in place anytime there is a large crowd, protocol set by the “building security team,” she said, not party officials.

    A spread of donuts and water had also been set up for the Our Revolution party. Turner took particular issue with the donuts and water, which she called “hand-out trinkets.”

    “They tried to seduce us with donuts and water,” she said. “They’re pompous and arrogant enough to say to the people, you’re not good enough to be on our property — and, oh by the way, we’re just gonna hand you donuts and water over the barricade. That is insulting. Absolutely insulting.”

    Read More
  68. @AndrewR
    In further depressing news, YouTube's transwoman CEO is really, really, really, really really stupid and/or dishonest:

    http://fortune.com/2017/08/09/google-diversity-memo-wojcicki/

    The funny and ironic thing about her article is that she is the poster child for a bright, driven woman who chose not to go into STEM. Her father is a physicist, she’s privileged, she had boundless opportunity — studied history and literature at Harvard. Her master’s degrees are in business and economics. Her career has been completely business, marketing and advertising roles. She’s not a coder, not an engineer, but it’s reasonable to think she could have suceeded as a coder. But it wasn’t what she wanted.

    She’s a walking example of Damore’s thesis.

    Read More
  69. @AndrewR
    In further depressing news, YouTube's transwoman CEO is really, really, really, really really stupid and/or dishonest:

    http://fortune.com/2017/08/09/google-diversity-memo-wojcicki/

    She’s dishonest.

    Read More
  70. Luke Lea says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    Tiny Duck may be the skunk and the party but at least he’s still welcome here!

    Read More
  71. Great interview – the words of encouragement from Peterson towards the end were quite touching, actually. He has a son about Damore’s age.

    I notice that some of the mainstream media coverage is becoming more sympathetic to Damore, or at least more neutral in tone. Not everybody is going along with the ritual defamation. Certain people at Google cannot be happy about this.

    Read More
  72. Part of the reason I’m still staying in Canada is because people like Jordan Peterson and Stephan Molyneux are produced and exist here. Some of the biggest figures in both the Alt Light and the Manosphere cut their teeth in Toronto.

    The SJWs in Toronto are fierce. A number of them have tried to ruin my life. Deep down inside though, most regular people don’t take them seriously and see them for what they really are – superficial copycats of American SJWs. I’ve never met a Canadian SJW who came up with an original idea about anything.

    I love Dr. Peterson as much as the next guy but he does have his limits. He’s basically in alliance with Ezra Levant and Rebel Media. He’s always talking about his deep admiration of Jews and the Jewish community. Don’t ever expect him to “go there” on the JQ.

    At some point, he will likely be asked to disavow Richard Spencer.

    Fun fact – even Richard Spencer lived in Toronto for a brief period of time. He reportedly liked the city yet disliked being the only white man one day riding a TTC bus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I’ve never met a Canadian who came up with an original idea about anything.
     
    FTFY
    , @Cagey Beast
    He’s always talking about his deep admiration of Jews and the Jewish community. Don’t ever expect him to “go there” on the JQ

    Peterson really only says such things numerous times because obnoxious alt-righters can't seem to resist pestering anyone they partly agree with to "name the Jew!", "name the Jew!". It's really annoying and counterproductive. I say that as someone who'd be labelled an anti-Semite by pretty much any "normie".
    , @Anonymous
    I know nothing of this Molyneux, but it seems Ms Hynde fille is a big fan from her YT page. Just saying.
  73. Even if women believe innate differences contribute to the gender imbalance in tech, they’ll never say it, because it implies that women in tech are “oddballs.” When a woman calls someone an oddball, it’s intended as a grave insult.

    The funny thing is, the women who are in tech because they like it, instead of because some guidance counselor talked them into it, are the ones who care the least about being oddballs. So their sisters are protecting them for no reason.

    I will add this. I work for a very large and well-known global manufacturing concern that recently adopted a policy that appears to greatly favor female applicants for tech jobs. When they announced it (on an internal message board), dozens of employees posted dissenting opinions, including many women. There was no disciplinary action or retaliation whatsoever. I was rather proud of my company. So the rot isn’t as deep as it might seem.

    Read More
  74. Mr. Damore is giggly and kind of goofy. But he’s young so I’ll give him a pass on that. This is almost Edward Snowden 2.0.

    He’s going to need a lot of strong people to have his back.

    Read More
  75. @Anon
    Was Damore aware of Stephanie Grace case at Harvard?

    Another case of 'memo' in form of email snitched to higher authority by resentful ninny.

    http://abovethelaw.com/2011/09/brand-new-racist-blog-from-harvard-law-student/

    A strange paradox here.

    In order for institutions to practice 'racism', they must speak out against it.

    Old Christian trick. In order for the powerful to justify power and privilege, they had to denounce such in the name of Jesus. So, the rich popes and kings were supposedly all serving the humble teachings of Jesus.

    The Stephanie Grace case that wound up with the Harvard Law School student being denounced by the Harvard Law School dean was nuts. The leaked email came from a romantic rival over a boy’s affections. Read closely, it was apparent that it was the rival who leaked the email who was very pro “The Bell Curve” and Grace was thoughtfully ambivalent.

    Read More
  76. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Canadian Observer
    Part of the reason I'm still staying in Canada is because people like Jordan Peterson and Stephan Molyneux are produced and exist here. Some of the biggest figures in both the Alt Light and the Manosphere cut their teeth in Toronto.

    The SJWs in Toronto are fierce. A number of them have tried to ruin my life. Deep down inside though, most regular people don't take them seriously and see them for what they really are - superficial copycats of American SJWs. I've never met a Canadian SJW who came up with an original idea about anything.

    I love Dr. Peterson as much as the next guy but he does have his limits. He's basically in alliance with Ezra Levant and Rebel Media. He's always talking about his deep admiration of Jews and the Jewish community. Don't ever expect him to "go there" on the JQ.

    At some point, he will likely be asked to disavow Richard Spencer.

    Fun fact - even Richard Spencer lived in Toronto for a brief period of time. He reportedly liked the city yet disliked being the only white man one day riding a TTC bus.

    I’ve never met a Canadian who came up with an original idea about anything.

    FTFY

    Read More
  77. AndrewR says:
    @Vinteuil
    Susan Wojcicki is not a "transwoman."

    Why are you lying about this, AndrewR?

    It’s joke. Why are your panties in a wad, Venteuil?

    Read More
  78. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    You know, all of this could work out favorably. Leftism is deeply unpopular. CNN, NYT, etc- as they push left, their market share goes elsewhere. People increasingly turn elsewhere for the news. A You tube or Google that wants to start pulling this crap is going to increasingly push people to other resources. Defiantly right wing resources are harder to shake down because they lose the ability to shame them when they already defame them.

    Read More
  79. Corvinus says:
    @AndrewR
    Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I'm a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.

    “Groupthink and mass intellectual dishonesty are human traits and not exclusive to one era or group. If the people who frequent this blog were power elites instead of powerless dissidents, we would see the same sort of silencing, mobbing, censorship, etc. Just for different topics, obviously. This is why I’m a misanthrope. Every human group is awful.”

    Exactly!

    Damore had every liberty to write his manifesto, which was well-written and well-thought, and not have been terminated from his employment. I may not agree with some of his points; regardless, the SJW’s at Google have put their company at risk, and to me Damore has legitimate grounds to sue.

    Read More
  80. Corvinus says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Every human group is awful.
     
    Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results.

    Stop being an awful relativist.

    Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves? Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?

    Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don't even comprehend those things? Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup.

    We are better.

    “Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results. Stop being an awful relativist.”

    You just proved AndrewR’s point.

    “Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves?”

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?

    “Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?”

    Who are these “savages” you are referring to? the Hmong perhaps–really?

    “Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don’t even comprehend those things?

    WASPs in the 1800′s felt the same way regarding the non-WASP “hordes” than “invaded” our borders. Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, as well as our constitutional form of government.

    “Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup. We are better.”

    Wh0 specifically is this “we”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Okay, I'll bite this delicious chum you've put in the water, but I am not nearly as good as you are at writing internet thesis papers in comment sections.

    “Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results. Stop being an awful relativist.”

    You just proved AndrewR’s point.
     

    No, I didn't. You do know what is meant by cultural relativism, I'm sure. It's not literally "relativity." Only the Aspergery, stupid-smart would take my language to an absurd, literal meaning.

    “Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves?”

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?
     

    Of course they choose to act this way, because they are better people (but perhaps not more clever). They get taken advantage of by the lesser people, the sharks and wolves. It's the current story of white gentiles.

    Your response is called "missing the point."

    (And yes, I do take as given that better people make more effort to be fair and helpful.)


    “Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?”

    Who are these “savages” you are referring to? the Hmong perhaps–really?
     

    My mistake. I meant Minnesota, home of freshly-minted, affirmative action, Somali policemen. You know, this place:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GcGb7zMy4Q


    “Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup. We are better.”

    Wh0 specifically is this “we”?
     

    If you don't know who we are, then you have a problem. Indeed, that is our problem. Our identity has been eliminated, shamed out of existence by comments like yours.
    , @gda
    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?
    And who, specifically is this “they” you speak of, pray tell?

    “Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, as well as our constitutional form of government.’

    Nice try, but aren’t you dissembling “somewhat” here? What, no mention of the Pakistanis (wonderful groomers), the Afghans (Europe‘s rape champions), the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Saudis, etc., etc? What’s the common denominator with these folk, I wonder?

    It couldn’t be that they follow the “religion of peace” could it? With it’s own “laws”, in direct contradiction to our constitutional form of government, and neither the conception nor desire to pursue “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.

    One can’t help but notice more than a smattering of egalitarianism oozing out of the comments here, despite the pretense of being the reasonable and unbiased commentator.
  81. NickG says:
    @Cagey Beast
    A comment under the Jordan Peterson, James Damore conversation:


    JJ Vladimir:
    Watching the battle for the future of Western civilization is far more fascinating and relevant than anything else I can name. Videos like this have basically taken the place of movies and TV in my life.
     

    Watching the battle for the future of Western civilization is far more fascinating and relevant than anything else I can name. Videos like this have basically taken the place of movies and TV in my life.

    

    This is so true. Also most TV and movies are utter shite, much of it is narrative punting bollocks.

    Jordan Peterson handled this sublimely well.

    Read More
  82. ask him his salary. Over $200K ? That would really make the gals flip out if it turned out Google paid him more than them.

    Read More
  83. Cagey Beast says: • Website
    @Canadian Observer
    Part of the reason I'm still staying in Canada is because people like Jordan Peterson and Stephan Molyneux are produced and exist here. Some of the biggest figures in both the Alt Light and the Manosphere cut their teeth in Toronto.

    The SJWs in Toronto are fierce. A number of them have tried to ruin my life. Deep down inside though, most regular people don't take them seriously and see them for what they really are - superficial copycats of American SJWs. I've never met a Canadian SJW who came up with an original idea about anything.

    I love Dr. Peterson as much as the next guy but he does have his limits. He's basically in alliance with Ezra Levant and Rebel Media. He's always talking about his deep admiration of Jews and the Jewish community. Don't ever expect him to "go there" on the JQ.

    At some point, he will likely be asked to disavow Richard Spencer.

    Fun fact - even Richard Spencer lived in Toronto for a brief period of time. He reportedly liked the city yet disliked being the only white man one day riding a TTC bus.

    He’s always talking about his deep admiration of Jews and the Jewish community. Don’t ever expect him to “go there” on the JQ

    Peterson really only says such things numerous times because obnoxious alt-righters can’t seem to resist pestering anyone they partly agree with to “name the Jew!”, “name the Jew!”. It’s really annoying and counterproductive. I say that as someone who’d be labelled an anti-Semite by pretty much any “normie”.

    Read More
  84. @Tiny Duck
    Now imagine you read the memo and you are a female engineer at Google who will be evaluated for promotion by Mr. Damore. It might seem less like dorm-room philosophizing and more like a bias that could well harm your career.



    Everyone has the right to their own backwards, sexist, racist views but when you utilize company property and resources to spread those views in violation of company policy you are likely to be disciplined and/or terminated. I have no sympathy for this guy.

    He bends over backward to say that people should be judged individually, not as a member of a group, unlike the people who fired him and the people celebrating like you, but never let the facts get in the way of petty moral outrage, Duck. Aren’t you still celebrating Hilary’s election, Duck? You assured us it was a given, why don’t you go back to doing that, you moron.

    Read More
  85. @Pseudonymic Handle
    Complete interview@

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU&feature=youtu.be

    STEVE, SHOULD FIX — the one you have featured is a stub, only 21mins. In the notes for it, it points to this one, as being the full 51 min interview:

    https://youtu.be/SEDuVF7kiPU

    I don’t know why Jordan left that 21 minute stub up.

    Read More
  86. @the cruncher
    STEVE, SHOULD FIX -- the one you have featured is a stub, only 21mins. In the notes for it, it points to this one, as being the full 51 min interview:

    https://youtu.be/SEDuVF7kiPU

    I don't know why Jordan left that 21 minute stub up.

    Thanks.

    Read More
  87. @Prof. Woland
    HBD differences between races are much more subtle and nuanced than differences between sexes which is why Damore was wise to focus on gender. Had he made his post all about race, he would have been toast already.

    Google's goal is to shut this down as quickly as possible. There is no way they can win so what we will get after the ritualistic firing is a recital of feminist dogma and then back to normal as if nothing ever happened.

    The lesson for those on the right who would like to go about making change, focus on the feminists first. Once they have been deconstructed, then the other identity groups will be far more vulnerable.

    Jordan Peterson does this too. He’s race-aware – he mentions higher Ashkenazi IQ in his Personality class – but presumably that’s his lowest priority, and it’s the toughest so he’s not wrong to leave it to last, or a later generation even.

    Sympathy for Google: if they’d let Damore stay, someone else would eventually write a memo on race.

    (I saw your thanks about the longer video Steve, you can delete that whole sub-thread if you like – it adds nothing. I just saw someone else had posted the longer version but you still had the shorter one up, thus the ‘yelling’.)

    Read More
  88. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Canadian Observer
    Part of the reason I'm still staying in Canada is because people like Jordan Peterson and Stephan Molyneux are produced and exist here. Some of the biggest figures in both the Alt Light and the Manosphere cut their teeth in Toronto.

    The SJWs in Toronto are fierce. A number of them have tried to ruin my life. Deep down inside though, most regular people don't take them seriously and see them for what they really are - superficial copycats of American SJWs. I've never met a Canadian SJW who came up with an original idea about anything.

    I love Dr. Peterson as much as the next guy but he does have his limits. He's basically in alliance with Ezra Levant and Rebel Media. He's always talking about his deep admiration of Jews and the Jewish community. Don't ever expect him to "go there" on the JQ.

    At some point, he will likely be asked to disavow Richard Spencer.

    Fun fact - even Richard Spencer lived in Toronto for a brief period of time. He reportedly liked the city yet disliked being the only white man one day riding a TTC bus.

    I know nothing of this Molyneux, but it seems Ms Hynde fille is a big fan from her YT page. Just saying.

    Read More
  89. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Faraday's Bobcat
    Even if women believe innate differences contribute to the gender imbalance in tech, they'll never say it, because it implies that women in tech are "oddballs." When a woman calls someone an oddball, it's intended as a grave insult.

    The funny thing is, the women who are in tech because they like it, instead of because some guidance counselor talked them into it, are the ones who care the least about being oddballs. So their sisters are protecting them for no reason.

    I will add this. I work for a very large and well-known global manufacturing concern that recently adopted a policy that appears to greatly favor female applicants for tech jobs. When they announced it (on an internal message board), dozens of employees posted dissenting opinions, including many women. There was no disciplinary action or retaliation whatsoever. I was rather proud of my company. So the rot isn't as deep as it might seem.

    GE?

    Read More
  90. @Corvinus
    "Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results. Stop being an awful relativist."

    You just proved AndrewR's point.

    "Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves?"

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?

    "Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?"

    Who are these "savages" you are referring to? the Hmong perhaps--really?

    "Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don’t even comprehend those things?

    WASPs in the 1800's felt the same way regarding the non-WASP "hordes" than "invaded" our borders. Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", as well as our constitutional form of government.

    "Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup. We are better."

    Wh0 specifically is this "we"?

    Okay, I’ll bite this delicious chum you’ve put in the water, but I am not nearly as good as you are at writing internet thesis papers in comment sections.

    “Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results. Stop being an awful relativist.”

    You just proved AndrewR’s point.

    No, I didn’t. You do know what is meant by cultural relativism, I’m sure. It’s not literally “relativity.” Only the Aspergery, stupid-smart would take my language to an absurd, literal meaning.

    “Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves?”

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?

    Of course they choose to act this way, because they are better people (but perhaps not more clever). They get taken advantage of by the lesser people, the sharks and wolves. It’s the current story of white gentiles.

    Your response is called “missing the point.”

    (And yes, I do take as given that better people make more effort to be fair and helpful.)

    “Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?”

    Who are these “savages” you are referring to? the Hmong perhaps–really?

    My mistake. I meant Minnesota, home of freshly-minted, affirmative action, Somali policemen. You know, this place:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GcGb7zMy4Q

    “Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup. We are better.”

    Wh0 specifically is this “we”?

    If you don’t know who we are, then you have a problem. Indeed, that is our problem. Our identity has been eliminated, shamed out of existence by comments like yours.

    Read More
  91. @Moshe
    I've only met a couple of guys and just one girl in my life who would rrily enjoy a mental nudist colony.

    Truth be told even I would want quotas.

    Even if you're open to new thoughts beliefs and experiences and are excited to tey them out, we don't need to many of you if you are stupid, uncreative, passionless, etc.

    Also if everyone happens to have voted for Trump you don't have enough genuine diversity, etc.

    Remember, most people are dumb and like bacteria they will colonize our safe space. I would of course want a few from these groups, etc. But you know, limits.

    Also only entirely sexually undesirable women allowed. Yes we would be missing out on a lot of diversity but it's better than introducing sexual and romantic desire into our nudist colony too.

    Mental nudist colony is a terrible idea. I usually have my face in a girl’s a– (16-36) or frontwise (16-60) or not paying attention (to men) or shouting to shut up (black men and leftists). I suspect most straight guys are the same.

    Read More
  92. @AndrewR
    I never said otherwise.

    If I said "everywhere north of the arctic circle is cold" that doesn't mean I don't realize some places are colder than others.

    Leftists have historically proven to be far more awful than the rest. It is a mistake to apply what I see as a form of cultural relativism toward groups of leftist-thinkers and enforcers. Their very paradigm contains the seeds of intolerance.

    But hey, I understand why you are a misanthrope. I’m a cynic born of experience. People can be awful, some more than others. That’s why we need to preserve and promote our classic, Western way that curbs the inevitably awful outcomes of awful people (while preserving their freedom) rather than the Globalist, Elitist way currently in favor and power — which assumes that human nature can be changed through controls on freedom and that humans are interchangeably good/bad.

    Read More
  93. Tiny Duck says:
    @Unladen Swallow
    He bends over backward to say that people should be judged individually, not as a member of a group, unlike the people who fired him and the people celebrating like you, but never let the facts get in the way of petty moral outrage, Duck. Aren't you still celebrating Hilary's election, Duck? You assured us it was a given, why don't you go back to doing that, you moron.

    Ms. Clinton won the popular vote

    Read More
  94. @WR
    Daniel Chieh,

    As a rule I find your comments very insightful but in this instance I disagree with you. AndrewR is right regarding the fact that we lack power. Most of us submit comments anonymously and will continue to do so until the day it is safe to express opinions that deviate from leftist dogma without risking gainful employment. On the other hand, I don't think that Isteve commenters would become potential authoritarians if they had power. My guess is that in general people here are individualists by nature. This can be seen by the diversity of opinions (no pun intended) that one often encounters in the threads. I believe that what unites the dissident right is the realization that the cultural left won't stop until the last person who dares express an opinion contrary to their dogma is silenced. I don't want this future for my children.

    Personally I don't have ill will towards any of the various identity groups that the left forcefully protects. I am tangentially a member of one of these groups and now and then I befriend particular individuals of other "victim" groups. However, I don't want to be forced to associate with those I don't like, pretend that they have qualities that they lack, celebrate their phony achievements or be held financially responsible for their well being. Yet, this has become increasingly difficult in the past ten years. For that reason I consider that what Steve does is very important. He exposes the lies spread by lefitsts ideologues in a humorous way and offers a shelter for thoughtcrime.

    I just have a pretty low opinion of humanity, and it really does feel like that every movement is ultimately overtaken by its most radical fringes. Like you, I also am a member of one of those “identity groups” and I actually have no problem indulging the existence of radical feminists, etc. so as long as they don’t dominate the conversation. I think radfems, Gore Vidals, Westboro Baptist Church members and literal Nazis should all have a place to exist, and in a way, they all have something to contribute to our thought process.

    In practice, though, the radicals tend to take over the conversation and immediately seek to impose their version of truth.

    Read More
  95. Cagey Beast says: • Website
    @Moshe
    I'm likely wrong about this but I only watched a couple of videos from him about a month ago and I found his True Believers to be as odd as aliens.

    I mean like a mutant form of autism odd.

    I’m guessing it’s a clash of civilizations, judging from your screen name.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moshe
    Wow. That comment indicates some pretty crazy thinking on your part.

    Here I am, reading Steve for over a decade and enjoying Derb, Dale, Murray, MacDonald, and for a while was even a reader and interlocutor with spencer.

    Your comment indicates that in your skewed mind none of that counts . If I use the name Moshe than the best bet for why I found peterson's fellaters alien is because of Da Jew.

    You must realize how insane that it, yes?

    More importantly, what it says about your fossilized thoughts and beliefs and how occum's butterknife they are.

    Maybe a better guess is that - as I indicated, I didn't watch too much so my first impression is, in my words, "likely wrong".

    Or, that peterson is a non-smiling maniac with common sense opinions and that his True Believers are autists?

    Maybe the difference between usbis that you needed to be red-pilled to notice that on average blacks are stupid and violent while that was never even a matter of question from my youth? Or, if you too required no Awakening (though you once mentioned that you DID) then maybe the accolytes did - or at least awakenwd to having wnough balls to admit wrongthibk whereas I have never even had any problem using Wrongspeech. I mean it got me in trouble regularly but I never ever thought it required any skewing up of courage to speak freely. And maybe these fellas see a messiah in a professor who does?
  96. @Canadian Observer
    Mr. Damore is giggly and kind of goofy. But he's young so I'll give him a pass on that. This is almost Edward Snowden 2.0.

    He's going to need a lot of strong people to have his back.

    Luther did.

    Read More
  97. gda says:
    @Corvinus
    "Some are more awful than others. Just look at the results. Stop being an awful relativist."

    You just proved AndrewR's point.

    "Why do you think the Swedes are acting like sheep while the Muslim hordes are moving in on them like wolves?"

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?

    "Why do you think the good Yon Yonsons of Wisconsin are willingly turning over their homeland to savages?"

    Who are these "savages" you are referring to? the Hmong perhaps--really?

    "Why do you think we have reason and rule of law while others don’t even comprehend those things?

    WASPs in the 1800's felt the same way regarding the non-WASP "hordes" than "invaded" our borders. Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", as well as our constitutional form of government.

    "Our reasoning and our rules are outgrowths of our very makeup. We are better."

    Wh0 specifically is this "we"?

    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?
    And who, specifically is this “they” you speak of, pray tell?

    “Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, as well as our constitutional form of government.’

    Nice try, but aren’t you dissembling “somewhat” here? What, no mention of the Pakistanis (wonderful groomers), the Afghans (Europe‘s rape champions), the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Saudis, etc., etc? What’s the common denominator with these folk, I wonder?

    It couldn’t be that they follow the “religion of peace” could it? With it’s own “laws”, in direct contradiction to our constitutional form of government, and neither the conception nor desire to pursue “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.

    One can’t help but notice more than a smattering of egalitarianism oozing out of the comments here, despite the pretense of being the reasonable and unbiased commentator.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "What, no mention of the Pakistanis (wonderful groomers), the Afghans (Europe‘s rape champions), the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Saudis, etc., etc?"

    The bazinga was implied.

    "What’s the common denominator with these folk, I wonder?"

    They are people?

    "It couldn’t be that they follow the “religion of peace” could it? With it’s own “laws”, in direct contradiction to our constitutional form of government, and neither the conception nor desire to pursue “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.?"

    You do realize that there are secular Muslim governments, right? You do realize that American Muslims in general are well assimilated into our society, correct?

    "One can’t help but notice more than a smattering of egalitarianism oozing out of the comments here, despite the pretense of being the reasonable and unbiased commentator."

    Reasonable, I am. But we all have biases. And, yes, I do believe that people are equal before the law, not necessarily ability or skill. What "equality before the law" means, well, your mileage will vary.
  98. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @WR
    Daniel Chieh,

    As a rule I find your comments very insightful but in this instance I disagree with you. AndrewR is right regarding the fact that we lack power. Most of us submit comments anonymously and will continue to do so until the day it is safe to express opinions that deviate from leftist dogma without risking gainful employment. On the other hand, I don't think that Isteve commenters would become potential authoritarians if they had power. My guess is that in general people here are individualists by nature. This can be seen by the diversity of opinions (no pun intended) that one often encounters in the threads. I believe that what unites the dissident right is the realization that the cultural left won't stop until the last person who dares express an opinion contrary to their dogma is silenced. I don't want this future for my children.

    Personally I don't have ill will towards any of the various identity groups that the left forcefully protects. I am tangentially a member of one of these groups and now and then I befriend particular individuals of other "victim" groups. However, I don't want to be forced to associate with those I don't like, pretend that they have qualities that they lack, celebrate their phony achievements or be held financially responsible for their well being. Yet, this has become increasingly difficult in the past ten years. For that reason I consider that what Steve does is very important. He exposes the lies spread by lefitsts ideologues in a humorous way and offers a shelter for thoughtcrime.

    The day will probably never come when anyone can say anything publicly without risking their jobs… for the simple reason that employers have freedoms, too, and anyone can potential be an employer.

    The only way airing any point of view at all would be “safe” would be in a totalitarian state where basic rights of association have been abolished. We’re getting there, but we’re not quite there yet.

    I pray that day will never come.

    Read More
  99. Melendwyr says: • Website
    @Bill
    There's nothing wrong with silencing, mobbing, and censorship of error. It's doing to truth which is a problem.

    If there were an utterly reliable way to distinguish truth and error, your argument might have merit. As things stand in the real world, you’re an enemy of attempts to find truth, which makes you an enemy of truth itself.

    Please identity yourself with your real name and location, so that as per your beliefs, you may be silenced, mobbed, and censored.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill
    It's remarkable how badly libertarians reason. Your first para first denies and then affirms that there is a reliable way to distinguish truth and error. And you can't hide behind "utterly." There is no utterly reliable way to determine who defrauded who, who initiated force, what the contract meant, etc. Are those reasons not to punish people who defraud or initiate force?
  100. Melendwyr says: • Website

    One last comment: am I the only person who finds this video being on YouTube, and the transcript on GoogleDocs, to be deeply ironic?

    I hope they’ve stored their files in other locations, and have other venues in mind, in case Google retaliates. (Yeah, that’d be a disastrously bad step for them to take, but I don’t think we should assume they wouldn’t take it.)

    Read More
  101. Moshe says:
    @Cagey Beast
    I'm guessing it's a clash of civilizations, judging from your screen name.

    Wow. That comment indicates some pretty crazy thinking on your part.

    Here I am, reading Steve for over a decade and enjoying Derb, Dale, Murray, MacDonald, and for a while was even a reader and interlocutor with spencer.

    Your comment indicates that in your skewed mind none of that counts . If I use the name Moshe than the best bet for why I found peterson’s fellaters alien is because of Da Jew.

    You must realize how insane that it, yes?

    More importantly, what it says about your fossilized thoughts and beliefs and how occum’s butterknife they are.

    Maybe a better guess is that – as I indicated, I didn’t watch too much so my first impression is, in my words, “likely wrong”.

    Or, that peterson is a non-smiling maniac with common sense opinions and that his True Believers are autists?

    Maybe the difference between usbis that you needed to be red-pilled to notice that on average blacks are stupid and violent while that was never even a matter of question from my youth? Or, if you too required no Awakening (though you once mentioned that you DID) then maybe the accolytes did – or at least awakenwd to having wnough balls to admit wrongthibk whereas I have never even had any problem using Wrongspeech. I mean it got me in trouble regularly but I never ever thought it required any skewing up of courage to speak freely. And maybe these fellas see a messiah in a professor who does?

    Read More
  102. Corvinus says:
    @gda
    Have you ever thought that the Swedes are acting the way they prefer to act?
    And who, specifically is this “they” you speak of, pray tell?

    “Clearly, the Italians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Chinese, and the Nigerian who have entered our shores comprehend “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, as well as our constitutional form of government.’

    Nice try, but aren’t you dissembling “somewhat” here? What, no mention of the Pakistanis (wonderful groomers), the Afghans (Europe‘s rape champions), the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Saudis, etc., etc? What’s the common denominator with these folk, I wonder?

    It couldn’t be that they follow the “religion of peace” could it? With it’s own “laws”, in direct contradiction to our constitutional form of government, and neither the conception nor desire to pursue “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.

    One can’t help but notice more than a smattering of egalitarianism oozing out of the comments here, despite the pretense of being the reasonable and unbiased commentator.

    “What, no mention of the Pakistanis (wonderful groomers), the Afghans (Europe‘s rape champions), the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Saudis, etc., etc?”

    The bazinga was implied.

    “What’s the common denominator with these folk, I wonder?”

    They are people?

    “It couldn’t be that they follow the “religion of peace” could it? With it’s own “laws”, in direct contradiction to our constitutional form of government, and neither the conception nor desire to pursue “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.?”

    You do realize that there are secular Muslim governments, right? You do realize that American Muslims in general are well assimilated into our society, correct?

    “One can’t help but notice more than a smattering of egalitarianism oozing out of the comments here, despite the pretense of being the reasonable and unbiased commentator.”

    Reasonable, I am. But we all have biases. And, yes, I do believe that people are equal before the law, not necessarily ability or skill. What “equality before the law” means, well, your mileage will vary.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gda
    “You do realize that American Muslims in general are well assimilated into our society, correct?”

    The weasel words here are “in general”.

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree).
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.
    http://people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 33% of Muslim-Americans say al-Qaeda beliefs are Islamic or correct. (49% disagree),
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 38% of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct. (43% disagree),
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    Wow! Good thing that assimilation thing works so well. It’s so comforting to know that only 26% of young Muslims in the US (Pew – 2007) believe suicide bombings are justified. And that only 250,000 Muslim-Americans are of like mind.

    And we are confident that the refugees coming from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq will soon be just as “well assimilated”?

    I would agree at least that the US is fortunate that, through an accident of geography only, we are not France, or Sweden, or Germany, or even England, right now. We have our own problems, which we are thankful that someone is finally addressing. But at least the Hispanics are (mostly) Christian, and don’t usually look to blow us up in any great quantities. I mean, I only remember 3 or 4 recent Hispanic suicide bombings. Perhaps I missed a few.

    Oh, and as to the argument about Islam being the religion of peace and the violent ones not representing “true” Islam?
    BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
    http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

    No more Muslims thanks. We've seen the damage in Europe, and hopefully we learn our lesson.
    https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Liberal-Europe/dp/1472942248
  103. gda says:
    @Corvinus
    "What, no mention of the Pakistanis (wonderful groomers), the Afghans (Europe‘s rape champions), the Syrians, the Yemenis, the Saudis, etc., etc?"

    The bazinga was implied.

    "What’s the common denominator with these folk, I wonder?"

    They are people?

    "It couldn’t be that they follow the “religion of peace” could it? With it’s own “laws”, in direct contradiction to our constitutional form of government, and neither the conception nor desire to pursue “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.?"

    You do realize that there are secular Muslim governments, right? You do realize that American Muslims in general are well assimilated into our society, correct?

    "One can’t help but notice more than a smattering of egalitarianism oozing out of the comments here, despite the pretense of being the reasonable and unbiased commentator."

    Reasonable, I am. But we all have biases. And, yes, I do believe that people are equal before the law, not necessarily ability or skill. What "equality before the law" means, well, your mileage will vary.

    “You do realize that American Muslims in general are well assimilated into our society, correct?”

    The weasel words here are “in general”.

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).

    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the “global Jihad (64% disagree).

    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.

    http://people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 33% of Muslim-Americans say al-Qaeda beliefs are Islamic or correct. (49% disagree),

    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 38% of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct. (43% disagree),

    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    Wow! Good thing that assimilation thing works so well. It’s so comforting to know that only 26% of young Muslims in the US (Pew – 2007) believe suicide bombings are justified. And that only 250,000 Muslim-Americans are of like mind.

    And we are confident that the refugees coming from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq will soon be just as “well assimilated”?

    I would agree at least that the US is fortunate that, through an accident of geography only, we are not France, or Sweden, or Germany, or even England, right now. We have our own problems, which we are thankful that someone is finally addressing. But at least the Hispanics are (mostly) Christian, and don’t usually look to blow us up in any great quantities. I mean, I only remember 3 or 4 recent Hispanic suicide bombings. Perhaps I missed a few.

    Oh, and as to the argument about Islam being the religion of peace and the violent ones not representing “true” Islam?
    BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent “mainstream Islam”.

    http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

    No more Muslims thanks. We’ve seen the damage in Europe, and hopefully we learn our lesson.

    https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Liberal-Europe/dp/1472942248

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Regarding the CSP polls, they were surveys which were online, self-selecting of 600 people, meaning that respondents opted in to taking part. Self-selecting internet surveys are less reliable compared to traditional, random polling methods, since the opt-in element leads to bias. Opt-in surveys cannot be considered representative of the intended population. This poll does NOT represent the views of American Muslims as a whole, it only represents the 600 Muslims who were polled.

    Then there are the existing views of the organization conducting the poll which may also have influenced the outcome. Consider that the questions have an Agree/Disagree format, with Agree in EVERY case linked to a more controversial option, favoring Sharia law or supporting violence. If you know anything about polling, this format is impacted by "acquiescence response bias"--people are generally more likely to favor agree options. Moreover, the survey asks Muslims how they would “characterize shariah" by offering only limited broad options, from “guide to the personal practice of Islam” to “the Muslim God Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide via jihad” which can be interpreted in a number of ways.

    "Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda."

    Indeed. How many terrorist acts have been committed by Muslim-American citizens within the past two years?

    Consider that "[m]ore generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified."

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

  104. Corvinus says:
    @gda
    “You do realize that American Muslims in general are well assimilated into our society, correct?”

    The weasel words here are “in general”.

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree).
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.
    http://people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 33% of Muslim-Americans say al-Qaeda beliefs are Islamic or correct. (49% disagree),
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 38% of Muslim-Americans say Islamic State (ISIS) beliefs are Islamic or correct. (43% disagree),
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

    Wow! Good thing that assimilation thing works so well. It’s so comforting to know that only 26% of young Muslims in the US (Pew – 2007) believe suicide bombings are justified. And that only 250,000 Muslim-Americans are of like mind.

    And we are confident that the refugees coming from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq will soon be just as “well assimilated”?

    I would agree at least that the US is fortunate that, through an accident of geography only, we are not France, or Sweden, or Germany, or even England, right now. We have our own problems, which we are thankful that someone is finally addressing. But at least the Hispanics are (mostly) Christian, and don’t usually look to blow us up in any great quantities. I mean, I only remember 3 or 4 recent Hispanic suicide bombings. Perhaps I missed a few.

    Oh, and as to the argument about Islam being the religion of peace and the violent ones not representing “true” Islam?
    BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
    http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

    No more Muslims thanks. We've seen the damage in Europe, and hopefully we learn our lesson.
    https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Liberal-Europe/dp/1472942248

    Regarding the CSP polls, they were surveys which were online, self-selecting of 600 people, meaning that respondents opted in to taking part. Self-selecting internet surveys are less reliable compared to traditional, random polling methods, since the opt-in element leads to bias. Opt-in surveys cannot be considered representative of the intended population. This poll does NOT represent the views of American Muslims as a whole, it only represents the 600 Muslims who were polled.

    Then there are the existing views of the organization conducting the poll which may also have influenced the outcome. Consider that the questions have an Agree/Disagree format, with Agree in EVERY case linked to a more controversial option, favoring Sharia law or supporting violence. If you know anything about polling, this format is impacted by “acquiescence response bias”–people are generally more likely to favor agree options. Moreover, the survey asks Muslims how they would “characterize shariah” by offering only limited broad options, from “guide to the personal practice of Islam” to “the Muslim God Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide via jihad” which can be interpreted in a number of ways.

    “Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.”

    Indeed. How many terrorist acts have been committed by Muslim-American citizens within the past two years?

    Consider that “[m]ore generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified.”

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

    Read More
    • Replies: @gda
    "An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified.”

    Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings.

    How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000.

    Hoisted on your own petard. How embarrassing.
  105. gda says:
    @Corvinus
    Regarding the CSP polls, they were surveys which were online, self-selecting of 600 people, meaning that respondents opted in to taking part. Self-selecting internet surveys are less reliable compared to traditional, random polling methods, since the opt-in element leads to bias. Opt-in surveys cannot be considered representative of the intended population. This poll does NOT represent the views of American Muslims as a whole, it only represents the 600 Muslims who were polled.

    Then there are the existing views of the organization conducting the poll which may also have influenced the outcome. Consider that the questions have an Agree/Disagree format, with Agree in EVERY case linked to a more controversial option, favoring Sharia law or supporting violence. If you know anything about polling, this format is impacted by "acquiescence response bias"--people are generally more likely to favor agree options. Moreover, the survey asks Muslims how they would “characterize shariah" by offering only limited broad options, from “guide to the personal practice of Islam” to “the Muslim God Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide via jihad” which can be interpreted in a number of ways.

    "Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda."

    Indeed. How many terrorist acts have been committed by Muslim-American citizens within the past two years?

    Consider that "[m]ore generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified."

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

    “An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified.”

    Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings.

    How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000.

    Hoisted on your own petard. How embarrassing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings."

    I believe it was 8 percent of those surveyed. And there is nothing embarrassing when American Muslims in general oppose suicide bombings according to the poll.

    "How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000."

    You will have to prove this assertion or retract. Of course, you do realize there are radical Christians who support murder in the name of Jesus, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

    And it would appear that SOME Christians employ a double standard here.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/is-there-a-christian-double-standard-on-religious-violence

  106. Corvinus says:
    @gda
    "An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified.”

    Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings.

    How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000.

    Hoisted on your own petard. How embarrassing.

    “Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings.”

    I believe it was 8 percent of those surveyed. And there is nothing embarrassing when American Muslims in general oppose suicide bombings according to the poll.

    “How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000.”

    You will have to prove this assertion or retract. Of course, you do realize there are radical Christians who support murder in the name of Jesus, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

    And it would appear that SOME Christians employ a double standard here.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/is-there-a-christian-double-standard-on-religious-violence

    Read More
    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    Actions speak louder than surveys. The number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Christ is smaller than the number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Allah. Ditto number of victims.
    , @gda
    Your response is that it's OK that a few hundred thousand American-Muslims support suicide bombers because you can find one Christian loon who supports murder in the name of Jesus?

    Rather than throw in some random link from a far left website that proves nothing, perhaps you might have quoted some polls on how many Christians support suicide bombers. Lets compare apples to apples shall we?

    Maybe the reason you didn't is because you couldn't? There are no (sane) Christians who support suicide bombing.

    You really need to give up on this one. Every word you write makes you look more and more foolish. You're like the sheep that let the wolves in the door because most of them seemed so nice - a dupe.
  107. @Cloudbuster
    Been there. Done that. It works very well. It works better the more valuable you are. As one of the major designers/coders of two of their principal software products, it worked great. The company is no more.

    Years ago IRS computer systems were reported to be very dysfunctional. If true, I wonder if passive resistance, non-volunteering, and the like were involved. One has hopes, but…

    Read More
  108. @Corvinus
    "Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings."

    I believe it was 8 percent of those surveyed. And there is nothing embarrassing when American Muslims in general oppose suicide bombings according to the poll.

    "How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000."

    You will have to prove this assertion or retract. Of course, you do realize there are radical Christians who support murder in the name of Jesus, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

    And it would appear that SOME Christians employ a double standard here.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/is-there-a-christian-double-standard-on-religious-violence

    Actions speak louder than surveys. The number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Christ is smaller than the number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Allah. Ditto number of victims.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Christ is smaller than the number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Allah."

    How about just denouncing ALL violent extremism regardless if a group is Christian, Muslim, or Jewish? Nah, it's easy to play the blame game, right?
  109. @Moshe
    I'm likely wrong about this but I only watched a couple of videos from him about a month ago and I found his True Believers to be as odd as aliens.

    I mean like a mutant form of autism odd.

    That’s not Peterson’s fault. The kids are not alright these days (you must have noticed). Most are bereft of even the most basic guidance (family/ religious/ philosophical/ cultural/ moral/ ethical/ historical, you name it). It’s better they get it from a classical liberal who tells them to read Freud, Arendt, Jung, and Solzhenitsyn than from a Hare Krishna or the friendly neighborhood imam. There are bigger things to worry about.

    Read More
  110. Bill says:
    @Melendwyr
    If there were an utterly reliable way to distinguish truth and error, your argument might have merit. As things stand in the real world, you're an enemy of attempts to find truth, which makes you an enemy of truth itself.

    Please identity yourself with your real name and location, so that as per your beliefs, you may be silenced, mobbed, and censored.

    It’s remarkable how badly libertarians reason. Your first para first denies and then affirms that there is a reliable way to distinguish truth and error. And you can’t hide behind “utterly.” There is no utterly reliable way to determine who defrauded who, who initiated force, what the contract meant, etc. Are those reasons not to punish people who defraud or initiate force?

    Read More
  111. Corvinus says:
    @The True and Original David
    Actions speak louder than surveys. The number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Christ is smaller than the number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Allah. Ditto number of victims.

    “The number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Christ is smaller than the number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Allah.”

    How about just denouncing ALL violent extremism regardless if a group is Christian, Muslim, or Jewish? Nah, it’s easy to play the blame game, right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @The True and Original David
    Probably more important at this point to concentrate on 9-11, Charlie Hebdo, et al than on...well, I can't think of a terrorist attack committed in the name of Christ just now. But it would be less important to concentrate on than the majority of attacks that are happening.
  112. @Corvinus
    "The number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Christ is smaller than the number of people committing terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Allah."

    How about just denouncing ALL violent extremism regardless if a group is Christian, Muslim, or Jewish? Nah, it's easy to play the blame game, right?

    Probably more important at this point to concentrate on 9-11, Charlie Hebdo, et al than on…well, I can’t think of a terrorist attack committed in the name of Christ just now. But it would be less important to concentrate on than the majority of attacks that are happening.

    Read More
  113. Corvinus says:

    “well, I can’t think of a terrorist attack committed in the name of Christ just now.”

    Sure. Then google “attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men”.

    Read More
  114. gda says:
    @Corvinus
    "Your own selected Pew statistic shows that around 250,ooo Muslim-Americans (8%) believe in suicide bombings."

    I believe it was 8 percent of those surveyed. And there is nothing embarrassing when American Muslims in general oppose suicide bombings according to the poll.

    "How many Christian-Americans believe the same? Around 0 out of 231,000,000."

    You will have to prove this assertion or retract. Of course, you do realize there are radical Christians who support murder in the name of Jesus, right?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

    And it would appear that SOME Christians employ a double standard here.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/is-there-a-christian-double-standard-on-religious-violence

    Your response is that it’s OK that a few hundred thousand American-Muslims support suicide bombers because you can find one Christian loon who supports murder in the name of Jesus?

    Rather than throw in some random link from a far left website that proves nothing, perhaps you might have quoted some polls on how many Christians support suicide bombers. Lets compare apples to apples shall we?

    Maybe the reason you didn’t is because you couldn’t? There are no (sane) Christians who support suicide bombing.

    You really need to give up on this one. Every word you write makes you look more and more foolish. You’re like the sheep that let the wolves in the door because most of them seemed so nice – a dupe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Your response is that it’s OK that a few hundred thousand American-Muslims support suicide bombers..."

    YOU made that assumption. Any group or person who supports suicide bombers ought to be condemned.

    "because you can find one Christian loon who supports murder in the name of Jesus?"

    The link I provided explained that Christians have bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors who performed abortions in His Name.

    "Rather than throw in some random link from a far left website that proves nothing..."

    Remember that you offered a poll (CSP) that made it appear that the larger body of Muslim-Americans supported certain ideas. This poll is known to be have a particular slant. Now, you made the claim “Around 0 out of 231,000,000" Christian-Americans believe in the same. You later offered a caveat--"There are no (sane) Christians who support suicide bombing." I am unaware of any polls who have asked Christian Americans this particular question. Maybe you are correct in your assertion, but since YOU were the one to offer the claim, it is incumbent to verify it. It is absolutely chilling to say the least that some Muslim-Americans agree with the use of suicide bombers. But is my neighbor down the street who is Muslim going to blow himself up at our next block party? No. Regardless, the larger issue is the radicalization of religion. Christian Americans are no different than their Muslim brethren in this regard. That was the point of the source. Are you opposed to Christian, Muslim, AND Jewish radicals who are dedicated to using violence to achieve their goals in the name of their God?

    "You’re like the sheep that let the wolves in the door because most of them seemed so nice – a dupe."

    Most Muslim-Americans are "nice". They are immersed in our society. You assume that the lot of them will blow you and your family up.
  115. Corvinus says:
    @gda
    Your response is that it's OK that a few hundred thousand American-Muslims support suicide bombers because you can find one Christian loon who supports murder in the name of Jesus?

    Rather than throw in some random link from a far left website that proves nothing, perhaps you might have quoted some polls on how many Christians support suicide bombers. Lets compare apples to apples shall we?

    Maybe the reason you didn't is because you couldn't? There are no (sane) Christians who support suicide bombing.

    You really need to give up on this one. Every word you write makes you look more and more foolish. You're like the sheep that let the wolves in the door because most of them seemed so nice - a dupe.

    “Your response is that it’s OK that a few hundred thousand American-Muslims support suicide bombers…”

    YOU made that assumption. Any group or person who supports suicide bombers ought to be condemned.

    “because you can find one Christian loon who supports murder in the name of Jesus?”

    The link I provided explained that Christians have bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors who performed abortions in His Name.

    “Rather than throw in some random link from a far left website that proves nothing…”

    Remember that you offered a poll (CSP) that made it appear that the larger body of Muslim-Americans supported certain ideas. This poll is known to be have a particular slant. Now, you made the claim “Around 0 out of 231,000,000″ Christian-Americans believe in the same. You later offered a caveat–”There are no (sane) Christians who support suicide bombing.” I am unaware of any polls who have asked Christian Americans this particular question. Maybe you are correct in your assertion, but since YOU were the one to offer the claim, it is incumbent to verify it. It is absolutely chilling to say the least that some Muslim-Americans agree with the use of suicide bombers. But is my neighbor down the street who is Muslim going to blow himself up at our next block party? No. Regardless, the larger issue is the radicalization of religion. Christian Americans are no different than their Muslim brethren in this regard. That was the point of the source. Are you opposed to Christian, Muslim, AND Jewish radicals who are dedicated to using violence to achieve their goals in the name of their God?

    “You’re like the sheep that let the wolves in the door because most of them seemed so nice – a dupe.”

    Most Muslim-Americans are “nice”. They are immersed in our society. You assume that the lot of them will blow you and your family up.

    Read More
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