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Will Obama be Blackballed by a Jewish Country Club?
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Golf is so out of fashion that the only people who play it anymore appear to be Presidents and billionaires. And what do Presidents and billionaires know, anyway? Getting your exercise on 200 acres of paradise is just so 20th Century compared to the 24″x 68″ yoga mats of our Obama Age.

However, Obama, personally, is looking to join an old-fashioned country club.

From The [Jewish Daily] Forward in the carefree days of last summer:

Will Barack Obama Join ‘Jewiest’ Country Club in Washington?

Drew Gerber July 22, 2016

… Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination and a “snooty” feel.

“How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.

Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.

When I researched the 21st Century Jewish obsession with hazily-remembered family stories of great-grandpa getting blackballed by country clubs, I discovered that many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.

… Today, the club sits on nearly 460 acres in Rockville, where members can golf, swim and play tennis after full member initiation fees of $80,000. And, according to its website, the Woodmont Country Club has won “Best Place for a Bar/Bat Mitzvah” in every Bethesda Magazine readers’ poll since 2011. …

I’ve never heard of Woodmont’s golf courses before, although it’s pretty common for Jewish clubs to be hyper-low profile. Back in the 1920s and 1930s, Jewish clubs frequently hosted major championships, but with the rise of civil rights consciousness, Jewish clubs largely stopped opening their courses up for tournaments with large numbers of spectators and media attention. To Woodmont’s credit, it holds local U.S. Open-qualifying annually.

Screenshot 2017-01-10 20.47.36

Woodmont’s courses were designed by Alfred Tull, an obscure but competent golf course architect. It’s common for Jewish clubs to put more emphasis upon the dining room than the golf course. In general, Obama doesn’t have particularly discriminating taste in golf architecture, unlike Clinton or Trump, who both have refined their tastes considerably over the years. Anyway, Washington DC isn’t a hotbed of great golf courses that way that, say, Philadelphia (Merion and Pine Valley) is.

Obama is a well-known fan of the game, which is not news to his critics. Since he took office in 2008, Obama has played around 296 rounds of golf, according to a July White House pool report. CNN reported that Obama is the 15th of the last 18 presidents to play golf, and his love for the game rivals that of “avid golfer” President Dwight D. Eisenhower.

But now from the New York Post in resentful January:

Obama may get rejected from golf club over Israel policies
By Daniel Halper January 10, 2017 | 9:49pm

President Obama’s clashes with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may cost him a membership at an exclusive golf club, sources said.

Obama is looking to join the elite Woodmont Country Club in Maryland once he becomes a private citizen.

Screenshot 2017-01-11 01.27.02

But members of the mostly Jewish club are at each other’s throats over whether to accept the golf-loving president, with many saying he deserves to be snubbed for not blocking an anti-Israel vote at the United Nations, according to the sources. …

“In light of the votes at the UN and the Kerry speech and everything else, there’s this major uproar with having him part of the club, and a significant portion of the club has opposed offering him membership,” a source told The Post.

Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

“It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

In addition to the steep initiation fee, members must cough up $9,673 in annual dues.

“Originally, this was supposed to be a back-door thing to get this done and give him the membership — free of charge — and circumvent the rules,” said a source.

“But now, with the UN thing, they are not in position or likely to do it,” he added, saying the club is currently facing threats of potential lawsuits and litigation for breaching the bylaws to let Obama join.

Democrats and Republicans in the club both oppose waiving normal procedures for the soon-to-be ex-president, a source said.

While the club “probably skews more Republican than the Jewish community as a whole,” there are many prominent Democratic members, a number of whom supported Obama’s campaigns. But they might not support him now.

“Can you imagine how angry I would be if I had paid $80K to have to look at this guy who has done more to damage Israel than any president in American history?” an official in a Washington Jewish organization fumed to The Post.

“After the UN vote and attack on Israel, I think it probably hurts the club. If there is a club that excludes Jews, he would probably be more comfortable around those folks.”

Ironically, Woodmont was founded by the DC-area Jewish community in 1913 precisely because Jews were banned at other clubs.

Or perhaps Jews enjoyed the company of their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other by providing a romantic country estate for socializing?

 
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  1. Lugash says:

    Is this the most iSteve-ish post of 2017? Golf architecture, Jews and Obama make it a strong contender, even this early in the year.

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    • Agree: Anonym
    • Replies: @wren
    I am getting so confused with all the fake news recently that I thought it was satire for about half of the post.
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  2. “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

    Yes, of course. Very exclusive, don’t you know. At this point, are there any ‘exclusive’ clubs that aren’t jewish? Outside of college, I mean. In college everyone except whites are allowed their own clubs. Safe-Zones, Dorms, Publications, etc etc.

    “a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else”

    So they keep telling us, only (as Steve has documented) it’s not quite accurate. But then, accuracy isn’t quite the goal, is it.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    There are quite a lot of clubs which are not in the least Jewish, country clubs particularly.
    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
    However the situation is quite a bit different in New York City, where just about everything is run by them nowadays.
    An illustrative story concerns a club founded there by my great-great-grandfather (among some forty others) in 1846. I mentioned this fact to a native of the city, a Harvard man "of the Jewish faith", who reacted with shocked surprise: "But I thought that the C - was a Jewish club!"
    "Typical!" I couldn't help replying, and he was not best pleased.
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  3. wren says:
    @Lugash
    Is this the most iSteve-ish post of 2017? Golf architecture, Jews and Obama make it a strong contender, even this early in the year.

    I am getting so confused with all the fake news recently that I thought it was satire for about half of the post.

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  4. while Obama may be an avid golfer he is not a good one.

    It must hurt that trump will be the best golfer ever elected president.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Better than Warren Harding? I thought that Harding was a pretty good golfer.
    , @Anonymous
    I don't know about that. Wilson was an avid golfer , Then there was Ike and the Bushes. Clinton played a lot but cheated so much who knows if he was good.
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  5. syonredux says:

    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.

    Of course, it would be quite interesting to know when Woodmont (founded in 1913) admitted its first Black member……

    Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination

    Forget Blacks, when did Woodmont admit its first non-Jewish member?

    and a “snooty” feel.

    Dunno, this sounds fairly “snooty” to me:

    Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

    The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.

    The ’50s, eh? That’s…a little vague. So, other clubs started admitting Jews some time between 1950 and 1959…..Which means that we’re talking somewhere between 67 and 58 years ago….

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    • Replies: @Not Raul
    I would be surprised if Woodmont admitted its first black member before Tiger Woods went pro.
    , @syonredux

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.
     
    Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places) back in the 'forties, and they wouldn't let him join! The bastards! And that's, what, less than 80 years ago!Within living memory, an atrocity like that happened......In the same decade as the Holocaust!

    And look, don't start asking about how many Black members we've got. It's a Jewish club, OK. It's not our fault that Black Jews are kinda thin on the ground, and that that means that our club is whiter than a vanilla shake in a snowstorm.....
    , @guest
    "How cool is it..."

    None cool? I honestly have no reaction whatsoever to the fact that the first black president wants to get into a Jewish country club. Am I supposed to think that's progress, or ironic, or what? I don't know.
    , @Jefferson
    "Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places)"

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    , @Jack D
    You're not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the '50s but that doesn't tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs. Maybe at some point in the '50s there were one or two clubs that started letting in the most blue chip German Jews such as Eugene Meyer (owner of the Wash Po) . I'm guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the '70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now. The reality is not that simple. When the Supreme Court made its Brown ruling or when the Civil Rights Act was passed, 200 years of racial discrimination did not disappear in one day. There were rear guard action that were fought for decades. The SJW view that that Klan is THIS close from taking power in America is false but the idea that discrimination is beyond all living memory is equally false.
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  6. Daniel H says:

    $80 thousand initiation fee (as per most clubs, is probably a bond that is paid back when the member departs) and $10 thousand per year in dues (which probably pays for all greens fees and sundry other). That’s not bad, in fact it is a bargain. I know of more cramped clubs, in the New York area, (450 acres is large. Only need about 120 acres to make a nice course) with less amenities than this club that are way more costly.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yes, it's said to be a very spacious, relaxing facility. It's about 70% of a square mile.
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  7. Langley says:

    So many examples of the coalition of the fringe fraying.

    The crime spree is over and the hoods are fighting over the disappointingly poor take.

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  8. Quick pickup Lugash. If only he had included something about immigration or testing.

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  9. Golf Club “Blackballs” Black President…

    POTUS Donald J. T. could always invite Barry O. to join him and Bill C. at Trump National….

    Make it the Golf Club of Presidents!

    ———–

    All of the paranoid fantasies among American Jews that President Trump is planning to send them to Camps….

    They should be so lucky! Perhaps in addition to his advisory responsibilities, Mr. Kushner might spearhead some of the hospitality details to make the camps more welcoming… Dining on Trump Steaks… Drinking Trump Wine…. In the company of Beauty Pageant Contestants… Finally Country Club living!

    Perhaps disappointing for the real social strivers among them hoping for embrace by the real established TOOS Wasps instead of an ordinary fellow nouveau riche ethnic American.

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  10. Johnny789 says:

    I base my whole existence on becoming more Al Czervik-like.

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    • LOL: Jacobite
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  11. @Daniel H
    $80 thousand initiation fee (as per most clubs, is probably a bond that is paid back when the member departs) and $10 thousand per year in dues (which probably pays for all greens fees and sundry other). That's not bad, in fact it is a bargain. I know of more cramped clubs, in the New York area, (450 acres is large. Only need about 120 acres to make a nice course) with less amenities than this club that are way more costly.

    Yes, it’s said to be a very spacious, relaxing facility. It’s about 70% of a square mile.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    What kind of security do past presidents get? Current Presidents get ridiculous amounts of security, involving shutting down much of the course. I recall one year Bill Clinton was in NYC for Labor Day weekend and he wanted to play golf on Labor Day but no country club his staff called would let the Secret Service throw the members off the course on the last big golf day of the year, so he went to the US Open tennis tournament instead.

    I'd find it a drag to have that kind of security. But not everybody feels like that. I once was walking down the street in DC and a 15 car motorcade roars by. In the one of the limos, I could see the large head of VP Cheney on his way to the White House. He looked like he felt going everywhere in a giant motorcade was appropriate and fitting for his station in life.
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  12. Clyde says:

    Hussein will not be joining. He will refuse to pay the normal $80,000 to join plus he knows that on the links too many members will be cursing him under their breath. Think of who Hussein will be associating with post-Presidency and this situation will only get worse. Hussein could start his own country club in the DC area for the black and brown elites. The Federal Gov’t has made lots of American blacks wealthy enough to afford it plus a huge third world diplomatic corps to draw on from Arabs onto dusky onto dark.
    Where the ambassador of Kazakhstan can hob nob with the ambassadors from African kleptocracies and learn golf at the same time.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Jackie Robinson tried to create a black country club in the New York suburbs around c. 1960, but it didn't happen. It seems like a constructive solution.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that's de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    The daily fee course on Martha's Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It's near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.

    , @John Mansfield
    Along the Potomac River, a dozen miles west of Woodmont Country Club, is a cleverly named club:

    "Bretton Woods Recreation Center was established by the International Monetary Fund in 1968 in order to provide attractive and non-discriminatory recreational facilities for its staff, retirees and immediate family. The staff of other international treaty organizations and embassies were also invited to join as associate members. Additionally, families who do no qualify under the previous criteria may also be admitted as members through the sponsored member program.
    "Located next to the C&O Canal and the Potomac River, the Center’s spectacular natural setting is ideal for relaxation. With 285 acres of manicured turf and mature trees, you can experience golf, tennis, soccer, swimming and other outdoor sporting activities. Our pavilion area can be used for outdoor picnics or gatherings. The Center’s Clubhouse boasts two dining rooms with scenic views of the golf course, a banquet room for special events and space for corporate meetings and events."

    I know a member who lives near the club. He said the non-American membership has thinned in recent years, so the club has been willing to let Americans like himself join.
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  13. Not Raul says:
    @syonredux

    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.
     
    Of course, it would be quite interesting to know when Woodmont (founded in 1913) admitted its first Black member......

    Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination
     
    Forget Blacks, when did Woodmont admit its first non-Jewish member?

    and a “snooty” feel.
     
    Dunno, this sounds fairly "snooty" to me:

    Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

    The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

     

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.
     
    The '50s, eh? That's...a little vague. So, other clubs started admitting Jews some time between 1950 and 1959.....Which means that we're talking somewhere between 67 and 58 years ago....

    I would be surprised if Woodmont admitted its first black member before Tiger Woods went pro.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Vernon Jordan?
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  14. @Not Raul
    I would be surprised if Woodmont admitted its first black member before Tiger Woods went pro.

    Vernon Jordan?

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    • Replies: @Not Raul
    Is Vernon Jordan a member of Woodmont?

    He's a member of Robert Trent Jones Golf Club. I think that he might be a member of Congressional, too.
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  15. Mr. Anon says:

    The real question now is: Where, and from whom, is Obama going to score weed?

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    • LOL: Forbes
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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Thomas Nides’ was on top of Hillary’s shortlist for UN Ambassador in the list that leaked today:

    His name was also floated as WH Chief of Staff in September. His wife is Washington Bureau Chief for CNN, and he currently is a big executive at Morgan Stanley. Someone to keep an eye on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lugash
    Thank God she lost... Ron Klain, the Ebola media fixer would have been in power again.
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  17. Was way too young when I first saw Caddyshack & the Rodney Dangerfield character to have any clue to its origins in real life (or in the fertile imagination of the screenplay author & director). Now that you point this out, it is quite funny. Just another instance of tacky nouveau riche/declasse types giving the genteel old guard the cringes. Or intra-ethnic status jockeying.

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    • Replies: @Hodag
    Caddyshack was a romanticized replay of Brian Doyle Murray's years as a caddy at Indian Hill Golf Club in Winnetka Illinois. While many courses keep a low profile, Indian Hill and Onwentsia are the only clubs in Chicagoland that actively deny their own existence. Most characters in Caddyshack were based on real people.

    Also, my five minutes of rooting around has Woohmont designed by William Flynn, who is decidedly not obscure. Then it seems she got a redesign by Tull, who used to build courses for Deveruex Emmet, kinda like Raynor for MacDonald. Plus Woodmont hosts a US Open qualifier, so their light is not exactly wholly under a basket.

    DC has very few good courses.
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  18. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.
     
    Of course, it would be quite interesting to know when Woodmont (founded in 1913) admitted its first Black member......

    Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination
     
    Forget Blacks, when did Woodmont admit its first non-Jewish member?

    and a “snooty” feel.
     
    Dunno, this sounds fairly "snooty" to me:

    Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

    The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

     

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.
     
    The '50s, eh? That's...a little vague. So, other clubs started admitting Jews some time between 1950 and 1959.....Which means that we're talking somewhere between 67 and 58 years ago....

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.

    Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places) back in the ‘forties, and they wouldn’t let him join! The bastards! And that’s, what, less than 80 years ago!Within living memory, an atrocity like that happened……In the same decade as the Holocaust!

    And look, don’t start asking about how many Black members we’ve got. It’s a Jewish club, OK. It’s not our fault that Black Jews are kinda thin on the ground, and that that means that our club is whiter than a vanilla shake in a snowstorm…..

    Read More
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  19. guest says:
    @syonredux

    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.
     
    Of course, it would be quite interesting to know when Woodmont (founded in 1913) admitted its first Black member......

    Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination
     
    Forget Blacks, when did Woodmont admit its first non-Jewish member?

    and a “snooty” feel.
     
    Dunno, this sounds fairly "snooty" to me:

    Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

    The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

     

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.
     
    The '50s, eh? That's...a little vague. So, other clubs started admitting Jews some time between 1950 and 1959.....Which means that we're talking somewhere between 67 and 58 years ago....

    “How cool is it…”

    None cool? I honestly have no reaction whatsoever to the fact that the first black president wants to get into a Jewish country club. Am I supposed to think that’s progress, or ironic, or what? I don’t know.

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    • Replies: @TheJester
    Obama is desperately trying to be accepted as an equal by the clannish, elitist political class from Chicago that launched his career, propelled him into office, and stage managed his political agenda. Then, it appears that Obama "left the reservation" in the last few months of his administration to make a point about his life-long pro-Muslim and anti-European sympathies -- something he had had to keep in check most of his life.

    "Come one, guys, I did exactly what you told me to do since I moved to Chicago! Isn't that worth something?"

    To understand Obama, pull up an ethnic map of Chicago and plot where he lives (5046 S Greenwood Avenue, Chicago, IL 60615), note the small community that exists just south of his Kenwood home (hint: Hyde Park and the University of Chicago), note the large cathedral-like building across the street from his Kenwood home (hint: KAM Isaiah Israel Congregation), note the ethnicity of the neighborhoods surrounding this prized Chicago real estate and parry that into whose interests Obama really served as a "community organizer" in Chicago. As the story goes, when Barack Obama was still dating Michelle, she also served as a go-between between the White power centers in Chicago (which included Major Daley's administration and the Hype Park community) and the surrounding Black communities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago
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  20. unit472 says:

    There’s a nice course in Alexandria, Pinecrest, that has 9 challenging holes and is open to the public and former presidents.

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  21. FKA Max says:

    When I researched the 21st Century Jewish obsession with hazily-remembered family stories of great-grandpa getting blackballed by country clubs, I discovered that many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories got retconned to blame gentiles.

    Russian oligarchs can be problematic…

    Prior to the introduction of the 10% quota, wherein no more than 10% of the student body may come from one country, different nationalities made up the majority of students at Le Rosey.[21] In the 1950s and 1960s, the majority of students were Americans, Italians, and Greeks, in the 1970s came the Arabs and Iranians, in the 1980s came the Japanese and Koreans, and in the 1990s came the Russians.[21] During the 1990s, the children of Russian oligarchs, who made up a third of the student body,[22] gained notoriety for “terrorizing” other students, resulting in the withdrawal of at least one non-Russian student.[21][23]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_Le_Rosey#History

    When he was 14, Casablancas’ father sent him to Institut Le Rosey, an elite boarding school in Switzerland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Casablancas#Early_life.2C_education.2C_and_personal_life


    Boombox (ft. Julian Casablancas)

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Addendum:

    Andy Samberg, who co-wrote the song ``Boombox,'' is Alfred J. Marrow's grandson:

    He is Jewish; his maternal grandfather, industrial psychologist and philanthropist Alfred J. Marrow, served as the executive chair of the American Jewish Congress. Samberg has described himself as "not particularly religious."[8][9][10] He is a third cousin of U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin, as their maternal grandfathers were first cousins.[11]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Samberg#Early_life

    Mr. Marrow was affiliated with these two country clubs:

    Old Oaks Country Club - Purchase, New York
    Whippoorwill Country Club - Armonk, New York
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_J._Marrow#Other_affiliations

    How racism came to be called a mental illness — and why that’s a problem

    Others focused less on society and more on the individual. In 1950, “The Authoritarian Personality” gained widespread attention among academic and lay audiences alike for claiming racism and authoritarianism — like that in Nazi Germany — were not only psychological but rooted in childhood experiences, particularly the presence of a strong and overbearing father.

    The book was widely criticized but was nevertheless influential. For example, in a speech before the annual conference of the National Urban League in 1958, psychologist Alfred J. Marrow argued that the psychological causes and consequences of extreme hatred were evident simply by scanning the daily newspapers. Marrow said “the problem is primarily psychological in nature, [and] we must turn for guidance and help to the behavioral scientists.”
     
    - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/06/07/how-racism-came-to-be-called-a-mental-illness-and-why-thats-a-problem/
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  22. @Clyde
    Hussein will not be joining. He will refuse to pay the normal $80,000 to join plus he knows that on the links too many members will be cursing him under their breath. Think of who Hussein will be associating with post-Presidency and this situation will only get worse. Hussein could start his own country club in the DC area for the black and brown elites. The Federal Gov't has made lots of American blacks wealthy enough to afford it plus a huge third world diplomatic corps to draw on from Arabs onto dusky onto dark.
    Where the ambassador of Kazakhstan can hob nob with the ambassadors from African kleptocracies and learn golf at the same time.

    Jackie Robinson tried to create a black country club in the New York suburbs around c. 1960, but it didn’t happen. It seems like a constructive solution.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that’s de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    The daily fee course on Martha’s Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It’s near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Malls bring out the territorial urge in people when it comes to the black/white divide. Heck, McDonald's does. Everything does.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    Black krewes like Zulu and female krewes like Iris have been an integral part of the Mardi Gras scene in New Orleans for over a hundred years, and they have always been considered quite prestigious.

    This didn't stop the p.c. crowd from wrecking the old-guard krewes--passing a law preventing them from parading--simply because they maintained private membership rolls.

    Never mind that the black and female krewes, just like all the other krewes, also maintained their privacy. And never mind that the parades were a generous and spectacular gift to the people. Everything of value in our society must be wrecked. Because social justice.
    , @Clyde

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that’s de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.
     
    I believe same for Boston over by the Franklin Park Zoo. A black area of town.

    More:
    William J. Devine Golf Course | City of Boston
    www.cityofboston.gov/golf/WJDGC
    William J. Devine Golf Course at Franklin Park was established October 26, 1896 and is the second oldest public golf course in the nation behind Van Cortlandt Park in ...
    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    "The daily fee course on Martha’s Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It’s near the Talented Tenth colony on the island."

    That reference to the Talented Tenth suggests an even more exclusive black fellowship: the Talented Eleventh. And they'll have a ready-made slogan:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o
    , @Wizard of Oz
    When Obama played on the public course on Martha's Vineyard was the course closed off to the rest of the non Security Service public?
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  23. If you’re Barack Obama, what’s the point of joining a country club anyway? He’ll have invitations coming out his ears, to golf at other people’s clubs. Likewise invitations to breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don't have to schedule your time to play golf. You just show up when you feel like it and they match you up with a few other members into a foursome and off you go.

    Of course, that requires the number of members be kept way below capacity. I don't know about other states, but California has a law privileging golf courses so their property taxes don't get raised to the "highest and best use" of the land. Thus, for example, L.A. Country Club on Wilshire Blvd. between Beverly Hills and Westwood (probably the most valuable real estate in the country devoted to golf), has a modest property tax bill so the members don't need to admit more members.

    The theory is that everybody benefits from the benefits of having a greenbelt. On the other hand, lots of private clubs like LACC are largely surrounded by opaque hedges. I've barely seen any of the famous North Course in my life. I'll have to go to the Walker Cup to finally see it.
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  24. guest says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Jackie Robinson tried to create a black country club in the New York suburbs around c. 1960, but it didn't happen. It seems like a constructive solution.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that's de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    The daily fee course on Martha's Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It's near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.

    Malls bring out the territorial urge in people when it comes to the black/white divide. Heck, McDonald’s does. Everything does.

    Read More
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  25. Good Old Al Czervik also works as a comical proxy for Trump’s crashing of the Republican Party and Washington Establishment politics in general.

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  26. Or perhaps Jews enjoyed the company of their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other by providing a romantic country estate for socializing?

    C’mon Steve stop with this retconning.

    Jews have *always* tried to associate with the broader community they were in. They’ve never had any policies or practices to keep to themselves, but have always been champions of integration. If you don’t know that just ask them!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    What was it about 1913 and exclusive Jewish organizations?

    "Alpha Epsilon Pi was founded in 1913 under the Washington Square Arch at New York University (NYU) by Charles C. Moskowitz and 10 other Jewish men: David K. Schafer, Isador M. Glazer, Herman L. Kraus, Arthur E. Leopold, Benjamin M. Meyer, Arthur M. Lipkint, Charles J. Pintel, Maurice Plager, Hyman Shulman, and Emil J. Lustgarten. These men are known as the "Immortal 11." Their first pledge was Samuel L. Epstein.[7]

    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University's School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone. At this point, the group of 11 men began meeting regularly in a German rathskeller called "Haan's Ladies' and Gentlemen's Restaurant, Cafe and Rathskeller". Official school recognition of AEPi was granted on November 7.[7]"
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  27. @anonymouslee
    while Obama may be an avid golfer he is not a good one.

    It must hurt that trump will be the best golfer ever elected president.

    Better than Warren Harding? I thought that Harding was a pretty good golfer.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prosa123
    Warren Harding almost became the only current or former president to die outside the United States when he became sick while playing golf in Canada. While his illness was never properly diagnosed, in part because the official White House physician was an unlicensed quack, it is highly likely it was a heart attack. Harding died a few days later in San Francisco.
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  28. “Can you imagine how angry I would be if I had paid $80K to have to look at this guy who has done more to damage Israel than any president in American history?”

    Co-pays are bitch;
    “Imagine how angry Americans would be if they had paid billions of dollars in annual tribute to have to look at this pariah state that on international scale has done more damage to the integrity and interests of world’s only remaining super power than any other country in America’s history?”

    I am talking about Russia, of course.

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  29. @Steve Sailer
    Jackie Robinson tried to create a black country club in the New York suburbs around c. 1960, but it didn't happen. It seems like a constructive solution.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that's de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    The daily fee course on Martha's Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It's near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.

    Black krewes like Zulu and female krewes like Iris have been an integral part of the Mardi Gras scene in New Orleans for over a hundred years, and they have always been considered quite prestigious.

    This didn’t stop the p.c. crowd from wrecking the old-guard krewes–passing a law preventing them from parading–simply because they maintained private membership rolls.

    Never mind that the black and female krewes, just like all the other krewes, also maintained their privacy. And never mind that the parades were a generous and spectacular gift to the people. Everything of value in our society must be wrecked. Because social justice.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Social justice is why we can't have nice things anymore.
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  30. Clyde says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Jackie Robinson tried to create a black country club in the New York suburbs around c. 1960, but it didn't happen. It seems like a constructive solution.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that's de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    The daily fee course on Martha's Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It's near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that’s de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    I believe same for Boston over by the Franklin Park Zoo. A black area of town.

    More:
    William J. Devine Golf Course | City of Boston
    http://www.cityofboston.gov/golf/WJDGC
    William J. Devine Golf Course at Franklin Park was established October 26, 1896 and is the second oldest public golf course in the nation behind Van Cortlandt Park in …

    Read More
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  31. Ed says:

    You mean the Chocolate City area doesn’t have a Black country club? Poor Obama since his people aren’t economically successful he’s forced to risk embarrassment at the hands of the Jews.

    He might want to go Anglo on this one.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    "his people"??? How much mythmaking, of a kind that blacks have only just tried practising ourside very ignorant black communities, will it take to make him and keep him African-American. I well remember a tall good looking Luo cousin of Obama pointing to sub-Saharan blacks and saying didainfully that they were Bantu. If there are big intelligence differences in West Africa (cf. Igbos) then it seems a fortiori that a lot of East Africans are a cut above the rest.
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  32. Or perhaps Jews enjoyed the company of their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other by providing a romantic country estate for socializing?

    Based Steve.

    Unrelated to that point: it is not clear from these excerpts whether members oppose the special admission privileges (waiver of $80,000 fee) being bestowed on Obama or whether they oppose his membership even under regular procedures.

    And why does Obama need the fee waiver? He is filthy rich.

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  33. @International Jew
    If you're Barack Obama, what's the point of joining a country club anyway? He'll have invitations coming out his ears, to golf at other people's clubs. Likewise invitations to breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf. You just show up when you feel like it and they match you up with a few other members into a foursome and off you go.

    Of course, that requires the number of members be kept way below capacity. I don’t know about other states, but California has a law privileging golf courses so their property taxes don’t get raised to the “highest and best use” of the land. Thus, for example, L.A. Country Club on Wilshire Blvd. between Beverly Hills and Westwood (probably the most valuable real estate in the country devoted to golf), has a modest property tax bill so the members don’t need to admit more members.

    The theory is that everybody benefits from the benefits of having a greenbelt. On the other hand, lots of private clubs like LACC are largely surrounded by opaque hedges. I’ve barely seen any of the famous North Course in my life. I’ll have to go to the Walker Cup to finally see it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.
     
    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he's never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don't get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    , @Old Palo Altan
    Tell you what Steve. When I am next in Holmby I'll try to persuade my hosts to invite you to lunch there.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Steve - would I be right to think that there is a difference in usage of "country club" between the US and other Anglophone countries? For example Royal Melbourne Golf Club has two of Australia's best golf courses (and the oldest in continuous use), very few tennis courts and a renovated clubhouse which still, I believe (haven't been there 8 miles from CBD for years) no accommodation. Royal Sydney GC, in a smart inner eastern suburb, has only one course, quite a few tennis courts and, when last I was there, perhaps a dozen bedrooms. To refresh my memory I Googled for "what is Australia's oldest country club" and I got a lot about golf clubs but didn't even get the name I was looking for (aha! Ranelagh! But no. Tennis and sailing but no golf....).

    Is "country club" in the US sometimes just a pretentious description of a suburban golf club on say 120 acres? Does a "country club" in your country always have bedrooms? My impression is that "country club" is in part a marketing description used by developers???

    More memory stirring.... I think my parents spent part of their honeymoon at the Barwon Heads GC to the west of Port Phillip Bay. Old GCs on the east side didn't have bedrooms presumably because everyone had their own seaside houses but what about the National which is the creation of recent decades on the colder SW of the Mornington Peninsula 45 -50 miles from the metropolis? Online search shows 72 glorious holes of golf course, food and functions, but no sign of accommodation.

    So there you have some bones, from dinosaur to Piltdown Man, for the verbal archaeology I ask of you.

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  34. Lugash says:
    @Anonymous
    Thomas Nides' was on top of Hillary's shortlist for UN Ambassador in the list that leaked today:

    https://twitter.com/apas/status/818784929874112513

    His name was also floated as WH Chief of Staff in September. His wife is Washington Bureau Chief for CNN, and he currently is a big executive at Morgan Stanley. Someone to keep an eye on.

    Thank God she lost… Ron Klain, the Ebola media fixer would have been in power again.

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  35. ‘Red Oaks’ is a series about a Jewish c.c., which is a concept that nobody who doesn’t read iSteve has ever even thought about for one second. The creatives are stealing from you now, Steve. There’s more emphasis on tennis, played by shifty inside-trader guy from Mad About You .

    Tennis is big in Israeli country clubs, since they only have one course in the whole country that I’m aware of, Caesaria, which is no great shakes. But that’s a whole other thing.

    Obama looks like a natural tennis player.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Caesarea.
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  36. Anonym says:

    If this Jewish club were not to admit the Kenyan, wouldn’t that make them the Wrong Kind of White People?

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  37. Junior says:

    I just read the headline of “Jewish Country Club Might Blackball Obama” and am SO enraged that I had to comment BEFORE even reading the article.

    This is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS! We can NOT allow this Blackballing to be done to our President! This type of absolute disrespect can not be allowed to stand!

    If we allow them to paint all of Obama’s golf balls black, just how in the HELL is he supposed to get a good shot off the tee?! Evil Bastards! The man hasn’t had a real set of balls for 7 and a half years and now that he FINALLY gets a pair, they are gonna paint them black?! It’s already hard enough to see the micro-sized pair that he got as a parting gift from the UN for half standing up to Israel, imagine how much harder it’s gonna be for him if they’re black and he decides to play at dusk?! It’s gonna destroy his handicap!

    We MUST save the President’s handicap!

    And we all know that for the last decade when he played he always kept an extra set of White Israeli-made Balls in his mouth that he had tucked away in his cheeks because they were WAY too cumbersome to carry around in the pockets of his tight-ass Mom jeans, but those were white balls so we could tell if they were still in there by looking down his throat if god forbid he choked on them by accident. Now that he has taken Israel’s White Balls out of his mouth and these EVIL bastards at the country club have decided to paint his itty-bitty newly found balls black, how in the hell are we gonna be able to tell if they are still lodged in his throat if he swallows them by accident?!

    We MUST save the President from choking on balls!

    To arms! To arms, fellow Americans! We can NOT allow this outrageous Blackballing of our President to stand!!!!!!!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Junior
    Well... I just finished reading the article and it seems that there is some rather obscure meaning to the term "Blackballing" other than the one that I am accustomed to, so... Ix-Nay on the call to Arms-Nay.

    False alarm.

    My mistake.

    Carry on. :)
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  38. @Steve Sailer
    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don't have to schedule your time to play golf. You just show up when you feel like it and they match you up with a few other members into a foursome and off you go.

    Of course, that requires the number of members be kept way below capacity. I don't know about other states, but California has a law privileging golf courses so their property taxes don't get raised to the "highest and best use" of the land. Thus, for example, L.A. Country Club on Wilshire Blvd. between Beverly Hills and Westwood (probably the most valuable real estate in the country devoted to golf), has a modest property tax bill so the members don't need to admit more members.

    The theory is that everybody benefits from the benefits of having a greenbelt. On the other hand, lots of private clubs like LACC are largely surrounded by opaque hedges. I've barely seen any of the famous North Course in my life. I'll have to go to the Walker Cup to finally see it.

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.

    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he’s never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don’t get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    Read More
    • Replies: @SwedeGG
    I recall our host writing Obama liked to do his golfing with a small group of friends from Chicago rather than using it to schmooze political people and dignitaries.

    Being a little introverted would make invitations a lot less tempting. Especially if it is with, eh, argumentative types.

    If Obama *liked* hanging out with people other than his Chicago friends he probably already would be doing so.
    , @International Jew
    Unless he's thinking, a nearly all-white club would be a good place to get away from Michelle, what with her intense dislike of white people.
    , @whorefinder

    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he’s never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.
     
    You make a good point. However, Obama, as the affirmative action black , has always just been given top honors for showing up. He probably had very little shock at receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, because he just figured his own election was the capstone of humanity. Remember this guy was given the presidency of the Harvard Law Review when it was already promised to a student who'd gotten the requisite best grades--just because Obama was black and the black students made a fuss. (and then promptly became the first Law Review president in history not to write the requisite Student Note, because he was too lazy).

    But Obama likes awards; like most blacks, he associates the award with actual accomplishment. He expects to be given membership at any club he applies to, and have it happen right away, no waiting.

    Is there a rule about not joining multiple golf courses, Steve? Because otherwise Obama will try to join a bunch.
    , @Hodag
    Obama played golf at Jackson Park, a decidedly public course in the south side of Chicago now going to be refurbished as a championship course to host the renamed Western Open. He really was obscure until his speech at the Democratic Convention put him on a rocket to the top. Very few of his friends are golfers.

    In Chicago the nearest great course to his house is Beverly CC, which only barely integrated in the 90s (they barely let black kids be caddies there, and only if they go to Catholic school).

    As Steve said, belonging is much better than being guested around town. You make the schedule.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    Same way he’s never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant
     
    A bistro in Chappaqua was informed by the Secret Service that they'd have to make a couple alterations for security purposes before the Clintons could be allowed to eat there. Those changes were never made.
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  39. Please God,let Obama try to join the jew crew! If he does and they,ahem,black ball him,it won’t be because of his completely harmless UN ploy. It will be because he be BLACK! They have the excuse ready,as usual,to hide the truth. Here in my town Michael Jordan tried to join a Jew club. Now North Shore Jews took jock sniffing to a degree heretofore unimagined,when they encountered Jordan. But given the chance to stop squealing like girls and relate to the Brutha they love so much as an OY! equal,they panicked and like Israel courageously facing the unstoppable Arab army,they stood fast and vowed,”Never again,or never in the first place! “

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  40. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Is this the dumbest thing ever tweeted by a smart person?

    Read More
    • Replies: @fish
    Arguing facts not in evidence.
    , @Anon
    It is dumb if Kowal is a gentile. But smart if she is Jewish.

    As Jews are minority elites in gentile nation, it is in their interest to increase diversity and resort to Divide and Rule.

    So, if by 'realism' Kowal meant the Realpolitik of minority elite power, it makes total sense.

    Subtracting gentile homogeneity leads to increase in Jewish Power. For Real.

    A homogeneous gentile population may be friendly to Jews. But the general norm is the people feelign resentment toward the rich and powerful, especially if the rich and powerful are of another ethnic group -- consider all the bitterness among blacks about whites who are richer. As Jews generally reach the top(and some Jews can't help abusing their privilege), there is the possibility that even gentiles who are kindly to Jews may one day turn against them. When a homogeneous gentile population turns against Jews, it could mean trouble.

    However, a diverse gentile population can't do much harm to Jews even if all of them hate, hate, and hate Jews. Why? Because they will be too busy going at each other's throats to come together to unite against Jewish power. Even if they hate Jews, they also hate one another.

    So, the Jewish Realism of Power favors adding diversity and subtracting homogeneity among the gentiles.
    The math formula of power: Diversity - Homogeneity = Jewish Dominance.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    It sounds smart to me, and very likely true as well. But as presented it completely lacks context which would allow one to make a judgment. It could well be that it is not recommending anything but describing someone else's strategy or a description of it.
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  41. Junior says:
    @Junior
    I just read the headline of "Jewish Country Club Might Blackball Obama" and am SO enraged that I had to comment BEFORE even reading the article.

    This is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS! We can NOT allow this Blackballing to be done to our President! This type of absolute disrespect can not be allowed to stand!

    If we allow them to paint all of Obama's golf balls black, just how in the HELL is he supposed to get a good shot off the tee?! Evil Bastards! The man hasn't had a real set of balls for 7 and a half years and now that he FINALLY gets a pair, they are gonna paint them black?! It's already hard enough to see the micro-sized pair that he got as a parting gift from the UN for half standing up to Israel, imagine how much harder it's gonna be for him if they're black and he decides to play at dusk?! It's gonna destroy his handicap!

    We MUST save the President's handicap!

    And we all know that for the last decade when he played he always kept an extra set of White Israeli-made Balls in his mouth that he had tucked away in his cheeks because they were WAY too cumbersome to carry around in the pockets of his tight-ass Mom jeans, but those were white balls so we could tell if they were still in there by looking down his throat if god forbid he choked on them by accident. Now that he has taken Israel's White Balls out of his mouth and these EVIL bastards at the country club have decided to paint his itty-bitty newly found balls black, how in the hell are we gonna be able to tell if they are still lodged in his throat if he swallows them by accident?!

    We MUST save the President from choking on balls!

    To arms! To arms, fellow Americans! We can NOT allow this outrageous Blackballing of our President to stand!!!!!!!!!!

    Well… I just finished reading the article and it seems that there is some rather obscure meaning to the term “Blackballing” other than the one that I am accustomed to, so… Ix-Nay on the call to Arms-Nay.

    False alarm.

    My mistake.

    Carry on. :)

    Read More
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  42. @Steve Sailer
    Yes, it's said to be a very spacious, relaxing facility. It's about 70% of a square mile.

    What kind of security do past presidents get? Current Presidents get ridiculous amounts of security, involving shutting down much of the course. I recall one year Bill Clinton was in NYC for Labor Day weekend and he wanted to play golf on Labor Day but no country club his staff called would let the Secret Service throw the members off the course on the last big golf day of the year, so he went to the US Open tennis tournament instead.

    I’d find it a drag to have that kind of security. But not everybody feels like that. I once was walking down the street in DC and a 15 car motorcade roars by. In the one of the limos, I could see the large head of VP Cheney on his way to the White House. He looked like he felt going everywhere in a giant motorcade was appropriate and fitting for his station in life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "He looked liked he felt. . ." I think you're projecting.
    , @MikeCLT
    I believe that Wingfoot Country Club in NY (founded by Irish Catholics who couldn't get into WASP Westchester Country Club) made it perfectly clear to the outgoing President Clinton that he was welcome to play anytime but would not be welcome as a member. They did not want the hassle of dealing with an ex-president and his security detail.
    , @John Mansfield
    Here is a little article from 1990 about ex-President and Mrs. Carter, touring Temple Square during a layover in Salt Lake City. The security arrangements sound very low key, a single Secret Service agent.

    "Pam Misbach, a full-time missionary [~21 years old] from Antioch, Calif., had the privilege of showing the Carters around the Square.

    She said she was glad Hinton [her supervisor] introduced the former president to her because she might not have recognized him otherwise.

    "He looks a little older now," she told the Deseret News. "But he was very nice, very personable. Even though he only had a half hour and he wanted to see the most that he could, he would stop and have his picture taken with people. I thought that was really admirable because who knows when he will get here again."

    Sister Misbach said she probably got only about 10 minutes of information in during the 30-minute tour because so many visitors - and missionaries - stopped to talk to the Carters.
     
    All the security escalation since 1990 probably means that similar encounters today with George Bush or Bill Clinton are not nearly so casual.
    , @Forbes
    I played behind President Ford and his two sons in 2002 in Colorado. Actually, President Ford just rode in a cart for 9 holes--it was a hot July 4 weekend. IIRC, Ford had two Secret Service agents with him. The starter informed us before the round, advising us to stay well back--no fuss.
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  43. eah says:

    You mean Obama intends to spend a lot of time golfing after he leaves office? — instead of pursuing ‘social justice’ 24/7? — or maybe trying to do something (I mean besides blame Whitey) about skyhigh black-on-black murder rates? — I am surprised.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    You mean Obama intends to spend a lot of time golfing...instead of pursuing ‘social justice’ 24/7? — or maybe trying to do something (I mean besides blame Whitey) about skyhigh black-on-black murder rates?
     
    He's going to help OJ find the killer...
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  44. SwedeGG says:
    @International Jew

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.
     
    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he's never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don't get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    I recall our host writing Obama liked to do his golfing with a small group of friends from Chicago rather than using it to schmooze political people and dignitaries.

    Being a little introverted would make invitations a lot less tempting. Especially if it is with, eh, argumentative types.

    If Obama *liked* hanging out with people other than his Chicago friends he probably already would be doing so.

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  45. Jefferson says:

    Off topic, celebrities on Twitter are morally judging Donald J. Trump for the supposed goldenshowergate. That’s rich coming from Hollywood, an industry that is full of homosexual pedophiles. Corey Haim and Corey Feldman were passed around like child sex slaves when they were minors by dirty old perv Gay Hollywood execs and producers.

    Read More
    • Agree: Thea
    • Replies: @Lugash
    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They're trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.

    I think we're going to see a bunch of high level intelligence officials fleeing the country soon.
    , @Jack D
    Not to mention Prof. Irwin Corey! There is something about being a Corey that makes you irresistible to certain people. Prof. Corey claims he got himself kicked out of the Army in WWII by claiming to be gay.

    Prof. Corey is, BTW, 102 years old and still alive and as coherent as he ever was, God bless him.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1560959/videoplayer/vi562080537?ref_=tt_ov_vi

    (Note the Communist Party of the USA mug.)
    , @International Jew
    I had to look up "golden shower" to understand this latest alleged Trumpian outrage. What a disappointment! I could think of far more disgusting ways to "defile" a bedroom once used by the Obamas. And what's with "defiling" anyway? I thought only holy objects could be defiled anyway. Oh wait...
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  46. Jefferson says:
    @syonredux

    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.
     
    Of course, it would be quite interesting to know when Woodmont (founded in 1913) admitted its first Black member......

    Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination
     
    Forget Blacks, when did Woodmont admit its first non-Jewish member?

    and a “snooty” feel.
     
    Dunno, this sounds fairly "snooty" to me:

    Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

    The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

     

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.
     
    The '50s, eh? That's...a little vague. So, other clubs started admitting Jews some time between 1950 and 1959.....Which means that we're talking somewhere between 67 and 58 years ago....

    “Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places)”

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Eddie Murphy is about the same age as Our Obama. I can imagine confusing him for a Vietnam vet. Then again, Trading Places wasn't exactly a realistic movie, and I think he disguises himself with glasses and a hoodie, anyway.
    , @JohnnyGeo
    well, he also tries to pass himself off as blind and legless
    , @syonredux

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.
     
    I thought that that was part of the joke, that he was obviously too young to have served in Vietnam

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKtjBqJ4NxA
    , @Stan Adams
    Eddie Murphy is the old lady, the fat older lady (the one who comments on the smell of the room), and the younger man the old lady tries to seduce:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvaTVV7yO4
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  47. Klon says:

    OT
    A comment to let Steve and anyone else who might care know about a pretty interesting theory: in the long term, fertility will rise because it’s hereditary and there is selection.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/short-history-of-3rd-millennium/#comment-1722903

    If true, it would be very important for many reasons and impactful in the immigration debate.

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  48. @International Jew

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.
     
    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he's never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don't get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    Unless he’s thinking, a nearly all-white club would be a good place to get away from Michelle, what with her intense dislike of white people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    You know, you may have hit the nail on the head.

    Guys need 'guy time' or 'alone time' (or both), and the feminist movement is opposed to the first and many modern women extend it to oppose the latter as well.
    , @Father O'Hara
    And meet hot guys?
    , @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Nope, all he needs to get away from Michelle is Burning Tree. That's why she won't let him.
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  49. Bill B. says:

    OT

    Unexpected support for HBD?

    A few seconds into the trailer for 2016 film “The Intent” about black gangsters in the UK the narrator says “it was in my DNA”:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    Funny you should bring that film up.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-rapper-dvs-jailed-for-a3437176.html

    A London rapper who raped and tortured a woman with a burning iron in a horrific three-day ordeal while she was kept prisoner in his home has been jailed for 23 years.

    Courtney Hutchinson, known as DVS, force-fed and burnt the woman, made her take scalding showers and savagely beat her before repeatedly raping her and telling her she would die.

    In a sickening turn of events, the attack on the woman, who was just 17 when she met Brixton-born Hutchinson, mirrored that of a similar one acted out by the rapper in a film he starred in.

    The rapper – best known for songs Hometown and Passion - played Brownin in a gangster film called The Intent. In one scene Brownin is seen burning a man with a hot iron – the same form of torture he was to inflict on his victim months later.
     
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  50. Hodag says:
    @CrunchybutRealistCon
    Was way too young when I first saw Caddyshack & the Rodney Dangerfield character to have any clue to its origins in real life (or in the fertile imagination of the screenplay author & director). Now that you point this out, it is quite funny. Just another instance of tacky nouveau riche/declasse types giving the genteel old guard the cringes. Or intra-ethnic status jockeying.

    Caddyshack was a romanticized replay of Brian Doyle Murray’s years as a caddy at Indian Hill Golf Club in Winnetka Illinois. While many courses keep a low profile, Indian Hill and Onwentsia are the only clubs in Chicagoland that actively deny their own existence. Most characters in Caddyshack were based on real people.

    Also, my five minutes of rooting around has Woohmont designed by William Flynn, who is decidedly not obscure. Then it seems she got a redesign by Tull, who used to build courses for Deveruex Emmet, kinda like Raynor for MacDonald. Plus Woodmont hosts a US Open qualifier, so their light is not exactly wholly under a basket.

    DC has very few good courses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve from Detroit
    I would love to have met the inspiration for Judge Smails.

    "Danny, I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't wanna do it; felt I owed it to them...."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA2NDf9LdDE


    How 'bout a Shasta?

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  51. whorefinder says: • Website
    @International Jew

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.
     
    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he's never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don't get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he’s never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    You make a good point. However, Obama, as the affirmative action black , has always just been given top honors for showing up. He probably had very little shock at receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, because he just figured his own election was the capstone of humanity. Remember this guy was given the presidency of the Harvard Law Review when it was already promised to a student who’d gotten the requisite best grades–just because Obama was black and the black students made a fuss. (and then promptly became the first Law Review president in history not to write the requisite Student Note, because he was too lazy).

    But Obama likes awards; like most blacks, he associates the award with actual accomplishment. He expects to be given membership at any club he applies to, and have it happen right away, no waiting.

    Is there a rule about not joining multiple golf courses, Steve? Because otherwise Obama will try to join a bunch.

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    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Is there a rule about not joining multiple golf courses, Steve? Because otherwise Obama will try to join a bunch.

     

    If such a rule existed, do you think Obama would assume it applied to him?
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  52. Hodag says:
    @International Jew

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.
     
    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he's never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don't get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    Obama played golf at Jackson Park, a decidedly public course in the south side of Chicago now going to be refurbished as a championship course to host the renamed Western Open. He really was obscure until his speech at the Democratic Convention put him on a rocket to the top. Very few of his friends are golfers.

    In Chicago the nearest great course to his house is Beverly CC, which only barely integrated in the 90s (they barely let black kids be caddies there, and only if they go to Catholic school).

    As Steve said, belonging is much better than being guested around town. You make the schedule.

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    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Jackson Park? I played there a number of times during the '70s and '80s, and it had many black players. But I can't imagine any way of turning it into a championship course. Furthermore, it's in a rather dangerous area....
    , @International Jew
    Thank you to Steve, Hodag and everyone else for golfsplaining to me. I've been golfing-challenged ever since my great-grandfather got blackballed at the Bialystok Country Club back in 1904.
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  53. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    My guess is Woodmont will admit Pres. Obama on a trial basis until he shows he can carry two full bags over 18 holes in Washington’s oppressive summer heat and humidity.

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    • LOL: Buffalo Joe
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Mark, My best friend,an attorney, caddied at the local Jewish country club, Westwood, in Amherst, NY. He said the members were good tippers and it's where he got the idea to pursue a career as a lawyer. Westwood could not keep enough members to function so they opened membership to any and all a few years ago. Course is currently closed as a group of developers try to get zoning for apartments, patio homes and shopping. The whole course is now ringed in chain link fencing that have signs warning that the property is a contaminated brownfield due to pesticide use.
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  54. bomag says:
    @eah
    You mean Obama intends to spend a lot of time golfing after he leaves office? -- instead of pursuing 'social justice' 24/7? -- or maybe trying to do something (I mean besides blame Whitey) about skyhigh black-on-black murder rates? -- I am surprised.

    You mean Obama intends to spend a lot of time golfing…instead of pursuing ‘social justice’ 24/7? — or maybe trying to do something (I mean besides blame Whitey) about skyhigh black-on-black murder rates?

    He’s going to help OJ find the killer…

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  55. Jefferson says:

    Eric Michael Dyson is back in the news.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/magazine/michael-eric-dyson-believes-in-individual-reparations.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.amren.com/news/2017/01/michael-eric-dyson-believes-individual-reparations/

    “At the end of your sermon, you do a “benediction” section, in which you talk about making reparations on the local and individual level: donating to groups like the United Negro College Fund or a scholarship program, but also, to cite your example from the book, paying “the black person who cuts your grass double what you might ordinarily pay.” That gave me pause!”

    Since when do Non Immigrant American born Blacks cut other people’s grass?

    Has anybody here on The Unz ever had your grass cut by an African American?

    Read More
    • Replies: @FLgeezer
    Willie Perkins cut our lawn for about three months but then stopped showing up.
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  56. SFG says:
    @International Jew
    Unless he's thinking, a nearly all-white club would be a good place to get away from Michelle, what with her intense dislike of white people.

    You know, you may have hit the nail on the head.

    Guys need ‘guy time’ or ‘alone time’ (or both), and the feminist movement is opposed to the first and many modern women extend it to oppose the latter as well.

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  57. @International Jew
    Unless he's thinking, a nearly all-white club would be a good place to get away from Michelle, what with her intense dislike of white people.

    And meet hot guys?

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  58. Arclight says:

    Steve, I am sure your experience on this subject is greater than mine, but my club (one of those started by Jews way back when) is a Donald Ross course, so from my perspective the founders did put a fair amount of emphasis on the quality of the course, and the clubhouse is pretty average, although the food is quite good.

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  59. TheJester says:
    @guest
    "How cool is it..."

    None cool? I honestly have no reaction whatsoever to the fact that the first black president wants to get into a Jewish country club. Am I supposed to think that's progress, or ironic, or what? I don't know.

    Obama is desperately trying to be accepted as an equal by the clannish, elitist political class from Chicago that launched his career, propelled him into office, and stage managed his political agenda. Then, it appears that Obama “left the reservation” in the last few months of his administration to make a point about his life-long pro-Muslim and anti-European sympathies — something he had had to keep in check most of his life.

    “Come one, guys, I did exactly what you told me to do since I moved to Chicago! Isn’t that worth something?”

    To understand Obama, pull up an ethnic map of Chicago and plot where he lives (5046 S Greenwood Avenue, Chicago, IL 60615), note the small community that exists just south of his Kenwood home (hint: Hyde Park and the University of Chicago), note the large cathedral-like building across the street from his Kenwood home (hint: KAM Isaiah Israel Congregation), note the ethnicity of the neighborhoods surrounding this prized Chicago real estate and parry that into whose interests Obama really served as a “community organizer” in Chicago. As the story goes, when Barack Obama was still dating Michelle, she also served as a go-between between the White power centers in Chicago (which included Major Daley’s administration and the Hype Park community) and the surrounding Black communities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago

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  60. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymouslee
    while Obama may be an avid golfer he is not a good one.

    It must hurt that trump will be the best golfer ever elected president.

    I don’t know about that. Wilson was an avid golfer , Then there was Ike and the Bushes. Clinton played a lot but cheated so much who knows if he was good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Flip
    I read somewhere (maybe in The Best and the Brightest) that the incoming JFK was a much better golfer than the outgoing Eisenhower. Of course he was a lot younger too and grew up a rich man's son.
    , @anonymouslee
    the bushes and Clinton aren't close.

    I've seen trumps card after shooting below par on a difficult course. He's not kidding when he said he could have made the senior tour if he were dedicated to golf.

    He's also not kidding when he says he's won legitimate club championships. He has.
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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    What kind of security do past presidents get? Current Presidents get ridiculous amounts of security, involving shutting down much of the course. I recall one year Bill Clinton was in NYC for Labor Day weekend and he wanted to play golf on Labor Day but no country club his staff called would let the Secret Service throw the members off the course on the last big golf day of the year, so he went to the US Open tennis tournament instead.

    I'd find it a drag to have that kind of security. But not everybody feels like that. I once was walking down the street in DC and a 15 car motorcade roars by. In the one of the limos, I could see the large head of VP Cheney on his way to the White House. He looked like he felt going everywhere in a giant motorcade was appropriate and fitting for his station in life.

    “He looked liked he felt. . .” I think you’re projecting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    “He looked liked he felt. . .” I think you’re projecting.

     

    Yes, for all we know Cheney was sipping a hot chocolate and contemplating how his toes felt in his new woolen socks as he pursued his quixotic quest to achieve hygge.
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  62. Cranmer says:

    In St. Louis there are two Jewish clubs. Westwood (old money German Jews) and Meadowbrook (Russian/Polish Jews). Of course Meadowbrook was founded because German Jews looked down on the Russian/Polish/Al Cvervik Jews. I would bet that there has never been a black or gentile member at Westwood, but Meadowbrook has been trying to go mainstream recently.
    Funny that these oppressed people start one or two country clubs in just about every major American city.

    Has there ever been an HBCC?

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  63. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Ghost of Bull Moose
    'Red Oaks' is a series about a Jewish c.c., which is a concept that nobody who doesn't read iSteve has ever even thought about for one second. The creatives are stealing from you now, Steve. There's more emphasis on tennis, played by shifty inside-trader guy from Mad About You .

    Tennis is big in Israeli country clubs, since they only have one course in the whole country that I'm aware of, Caesaria, which is no great shakes. But that's a whole other thing.

    Obama looks like a natural tennis player.

    Caesarea.

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  64. Thea says:

    Ot
    Why does the left, who doesn’t recognize concepts like national sovereignty, care what Russia does? They are the globalist post-nationalist so “Russian interference” is really just potential future Anericans becoming politically active.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Russian interference would he fine if it was communist Russia, for instance. But this is Evil Nazi Russia, which hates gays and likes orthodoxy and isn't as weighed down by the chains of international high finance as they'd like. So they're the enemy.

    Or maybe they're the enemy just because we need those. Oherwise, what would we do with ourselves? NOT conquer the world? Where's the fun in that?
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  65. MikeCLT says:
    @Steve Sailer
    What kind of security do past presidents get? Current Presidents get ridiculous amounts of security, involving shutting down much of the course. I recall one year Bill Clinton was in NYC for Labor Day weekend and he wanted to play golf on Labor Day but no country club his staff called would let the Secret Service throw the members off the course on the last big golf day of the year, so he went to the US Open tennis tournament instead.

    I'd find it a drag to have that kind of security. But not everybody feels like that. I once was walking down the street in DC and a 15 car motorcade roars by. In the one of the limos, I could see the large head of VP Cheney on his way to the White House. He looked like he felt going everywhere in a giant motorcade was appropriate and fitting for his station in life.

    I believe that Wingfoot Country Club in NY (founded by Irish Catholics who couldn’t get into WASP Westchester Country Club) made it perfectly clear to the outgoing President Clinton that he was welcome to play anytime but would not be welcome as a member. They did not want the hassle of dealing with an ex-president and his security detail.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hodag
    And Bill's propensity for dicking bimbos. IIRC, the big Hamptons courses extended the blackball for the same reason, although I can't imagine The Bridge not letting him in if he paid the downstroke.
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  66. Karl says:

    iSteve > their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other

    didn’t work out too well for Jared Kushner’s dad, did it?

    12 Clyde > Where the ambassador of Kazakhstan can hob nob with the ambassadors from African kleptocracies and learn golf at the same time.

    At the moment an Ambassador of Kazakhstan is probably more interested in meeting with the Israeli-American Council. The state security organs of Kazakhstan & Israel are quite friendly at the moment

    PS: Judging from the feature-writeups, the letters, and advertisements in “We are in America” magazine ($36/year to P.O.Box 570283 Tarzana CA 91357…. but brush up on your Hebrew), Israeli-Americans aren’t banging the drums to get fed by JewishAmerican-operated kitchens

    Arclight > although the food is quite good

    go to one of their meals AFTER you’ve had a course or two of outside appetizers and hor d’oevrs to take the edge off your hunger…. then get back to us on that judgment?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I've never had country club food that was any good but some are worse than other, like the different circles of hell. Jewish clubs are located somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd circle of hell, where the prime rib has been on the steam table a little too long and has lost its rosy color, but WASP and Irish clubs are somewhere in the 7th or 8th circle where the crab cakes have gone completely "off" but they serve them anyway. However, they have well stocked bars and a good supply of clear ice to cool the fires.

    Country club dining rooms suffer from the bane of all good service, from the DMV to Soviet grocery stores - the captive audience.

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  67. President Obama can join any country club he wants to. Not simply because he’s President, but because he’s a black President. No country club would dare risk the outcry and notoriety that would surely follow a rejection.

    Besides, he’s likeable enough.

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  68. Will Obama be Blackballed by a Jewish Country Club?

    No, that was Barack Sr.’s doing, although he got his white spine from his mother.

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  69. Dumbo says:

    Golf is just about status. “I’m here because I can afford to pay thousands of dollars a year to hang out with other rich people playing a stupid sport” and “Look how much valuable real estate we are wasting while the rest of the population lives in crammed apartments”.

    I think golf clubs should be diversified, forced to accept Section 8 players and illegal aliens. That would also make the sport more exciting.

    By the way, isn’t a “Jewish club” discrimination or disparate impact?

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  70. @Steve Sailer
    Jackie Robinson tried to create a black country club in the New York suburbs around c. 1960, but it didn't happen. It seems like a constructive solution.

    Big cities like Chicago and Los Angeles often have a municipal golf course that's de facto recognized as the black course. Golf tends to bring out the territorial urge in groups of people.

    The daily fee course on Martha's Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It's near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.

    “The daily fee course on Martha’s Vineyard where Obama plays every August is perhaps the blackest upscale (although not private) course in the country. It’s near the Talented Tenth colony on the island.”

    That reference to the Talented Tenth suggests an even more exclusive black fellowship: the Talented Eleventh. And they’ll have a ready-made slogan:

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  71. Erik L says:

    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews. The German Jews got caught in that so they started their own clubs. It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people. The only thing I learned that day was that Jews were a lot more racist than we tell ourselves.

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    • Replies: @Njguy73
    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people.

    Were most of the members Knicks fans?
    , @Opinionator
    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews.

    Do you have a source?

    It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    Ah, "rejection." As if jews don't reject and exclude Gentiles from their own circles.

    Eastern jews haven't exactly been full throated advocates of intermarriage with Gentiles.
    , @Jack D
    What you are saying is true of social or city clubs but not golf clubs. The 1st 18 hole golf course in America was not built until 1894, which just about coincided with the great Ellis Island wave of Russian Jews who set off anti-Semitism in America by their great #'s and their nouveau riche ways. Before discrimination can really get going you need a critical mass. There is no American stereotype or history of discrimination against say Slovenians because (until Melania) most Americans have never even met a Slovenian. That was the position of Jews in pre-great wave America - a tiny (and mostly well established) minority.


    However, there were earlier city clubs in places like SF that had (German) Jews among their founders but then when American anti-Semitism really got going in the 20th century they would no longer let in Jews.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    Erik, I think it's more about associating with your own brethren than racism. I grew up in Buffalo and there were clubs and associations founded by and used exclusively by every ethnic and religious group you can think of, Jews, Greeks, Poles, Italians, Serbians, Lebanese etc.
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  72. @International Jew
    Unless he's thinking, a nearly all-white club would be a good place to get away from Michelle, what with her intense dislike of white people.

    Nope, all he needs to get away from Michelle is Burning Tree. That’s why she won’t let him.

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  73. Steve must be kidding when he says golf is “so out of fashion.” Go anywhere within a 50 mile radius of NYC on a nice day in July and you’re looking at a 6 hour round.

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    • Replies: @Marty
    Yeah. in Marin County, word is there's a ten year wait to join the Meadow Club. A bit north, in Santa Rosa, a club called Mayacama, started by Charles Schultz, had a 250k initiation fee when it opened in '96, but they're full up. There is a Bay Area club that's begging for members- the Richmond Country Club. You know Richkond, right?
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  74. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Diversity Heretic
    Better than Warren Harding? I thought that Harding was a pretty good golfer.

    Warren Harding almost became the only current or former president to die outside the United States when he became sick while playing golf in Canada. While his illness was never properly diagnosed, in part because the official White House physician was an unlicensed quack, it is highly likely it was a heart attack. Harding died a few days later in San Francisco.

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  75. @Clyde
    Hussein will not be joining. He will refuse to pay the normal $80,000 to join plus he knows that on the links too many members will be cursing him under their breath. Think of who Hussein will be associating with post-Presidency and this situation will only get worse. Hussein could start his own country club in the DC area for the black and brown elites. The Federal Gov't has made lots of American blacks wealthy enough to afford it plus a huge third world diplomatic corps to draw on from Arabs onto dusky onto dark.
    Where the ambassador of Kazakhstan can hob nob with the ambassadors from African kleptocracies and learn golf at the same time.

    Along the Potomac River, a dozen miles west of Woodmont Country Club, is a cleverly named club:

    “Bretton Woods Recreation Center was established by the International Monetary Fund in 1968 in order to provide attractive and non-discriminatory recreational facilities for its staff, retirees and immediate family. The staff of other international treaty organizations and embassies were also invited to join as associate members. Additionally, families who do no qualify under the previous criteria may also be admitted as members through the sponsored member program.
    “Located next to the C&O Canal and the Potomac River, the Center’s spectacular natural setting is ideal for relaxation. With 285 acres of manicured turf and mature trees, you can experience golf, tennis, soccer, swimming and other outdoor sporting activities. Our pavilion area can be used for outdoor picnics or gatherings. The Center’s Clubhouse boasts two dining rooms with scenic views of the golf course, a banquet room for special events and space for corporate meetings and events.”

    I know a member who lives near the club. He said the non-American membership has thinned in recent years, so the club has been willing to let Americans like himself join.

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    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    The courses in DC might not be as great as in some other places, but they have prestige.

    https://www.burningtreecc.org/

    https://tpc.com/potomac/membership/

    https://www.ccclub.org/

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  76. Grew up in the Potomac/Rockville area, and have at least been around the people involved (from the Woodmont side of the house, anyway) even if I wasn’t included in all their reindeer games.

    Woodmont has not shied away from having gentile members they were comfortable with (and IIRC, there were other, less-expensive clubs in the area that most people would be a lot more comfortable at) any more than the JCC right by there on Montrose RD would turn away community members by religion.

    As to why Woodmont was originally founded, I know for a fact Burning Bush wouldn’t let Jewish people play as guests into the 60s, if not the 70s.

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    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    'Burning Bush' would have been Al Czervik's answer to Bushwood, or even better, Burning Tree: https://www.burningtreecc.org/
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  77. Hodag says:
    @MikeCLT
    I believe that Wingfoot Country Club in NY (founded by Irish Catholics who couldn't get into WASP Westchester Country Club) made it perfectly clear to the outgoing President Clinton that he was welcome to play anytime but would not be welcome as a member. They did not want the hassle of dealing with an ex-president and his security detail.

    And Bill’s propensity for dicking bimbos. IIRC, the big Hamptons courses extended the blackball for the same reason, although I can’t imagine The Bridge not letting him in if he paid the downstroke.

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    • Replies: @nglaer
    Or Sebonac.
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  78. Njguy73 says:
    @Erik L
    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews. The German Jews got caught in that so they started their own clubs. It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people. The only thing I learned that day was that Jews were a lot more racist than we tell ourselves.

    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people.

    Were most of the members Knicks fans?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    What I heard from a member of a country club that turned down Michael Jordan around 1990 was that he was welcome to play there anytime -- just show up and he'd be put into a foursome with members. But the members weren't crazy about the idea of Jordan as a member being able to invite his own friends, who tended to be professional gambler lowlifes and the like.

    Michael Jordan eventually joined a brand new club in the Chicago suburbs where anybody with money could join.

    By the way, speaking about body guards and security, Michael Jordan employs his old teammate Charles Oakley, a 6'10" power forward, as his traveling companion, card-playing partner, and bodyguard, just in case some drunk wants to boast that he punched Michael Jordan. No drunk wants to recount that he got whaled on by Charles Oakley before he could even land a finger on Jordan.

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  79. nglaer says:

    Woodmont has two courses (like Trump National on the other side of the river). I’m semi familiar with it because US Open sectional qualifying is played there, and I’ve seen it about 10 times. The North course is pretty fabulous, big trees, fast greens with a lot of slope. Generally one or two journeymen tour pros can shoot a couple of 65′s to qualify, so it’s not super tough. I played it once in a senior am event and was doing okay until a par five late in the back, where I took a nine and subsequently fell apart.

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  80. “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber… .

    Why is it “cool?” Oh, wait a minute…almost forgot: it’s the old black-Jewish “We’re in this together because we’re both victims” bit.

    I mean, that’s so….so Sixties.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I forgot about that. Now I am reminded of Billy Crystal's eulogy for Muhammad Ali. Which had him not only mentioning a country club, but had Billy saying his dad was a jazz cat who marched on Washington, or something. Point was, those Crystal Jews were HIP!
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  81. @Steve Sailer
    What kind of security do past presidents get? Current Presidents get ridiculous amounts of security, involving shutting down much of the course. I recall one year Bill Clinton was in NYC for Labor Day weekend and he wanted to play golf on Labor Day but no country club his staff called would let the Secret Service throw the members off the course on the last big golf day of the year, so he went to the US Open tennis tournament instead.

    I'd find it a drag to have that kind of security. But not everybody feels like that. I once was walking down the street in DC and a 15 car motorcade roars by. In the one of the limos, I could see the large head of VP Cheney on his way to the White House. He looked like he felt going everywhere in a giant motorcade was appropriate and fitting for his station in life.

    Here is a little article from 1990 about ex-President and Mrs. Carter, touring Temple Square during a layover in Salt Lake City. The security arrangements sound very low key, a single Secret Service agent.

    “Pam Misbach, a full-time missionary [~21 years old] from Antioch, Calif., had the privilege of showing the Carters around the Square.

    She said she was glad Hinton [her supervisor] introduced the former president to her because she might not have recognized him otherwise.

    “He looks a little older now,” she told the Deseret News. “But he was very nice, very personable. Even though he only had a half hour and he wanted to see the most that he could, he would stop and have his picture taken with people. I thought that was really admirable because who knows when he will get here again.”

    Sister Misbach said she probably got only about 10 minutes of information in during the 30-minute tour because so many visitors – and missionaries – stopped to talk to the Carters.

    All the security escalation since 1990 probably means that similar encounters today with George Bush or Bill Clinton are not nearly so casual.

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  82. Not Raul says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Vernon Jordan?

    Is Vernon Jordan a member of Woodmont?

    He’s a member of Robert Trent Jones Golf Club. I think that he might be a member of Congressional, too.

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  83. nglaer says:

    Woodmont also has top flight practice facilities, several short game areas. I suspect Obama would like work on his game–get it up to the level of a guy who played ok high school basketball. That takes time and effort. Their short game area much better than Trump National’s. (As a member of the latter, I hope the PE reads this and makes improvements!)

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  84. nglaer says:
    @Hodag
    And Bill's propensity for dicking bimbos. IIRC, the big Hamptons courses extended the blackball for the same reason, although I can't imagine The Bridge not letting him in if he paid the downstroke.

    Or Sebonac.

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  85. @Kyle McKenna
    Black krewes like Zulu and female krewes like Iris have been an integral part of the Mardi Gras scene in New Orleans for over a hundred years, and they have always been considered quite prestigious.

    This didn't stop the p.c. crowd from wrecking the old-guard krewes--passing a law preventing them from parading--simply because they maintained private membership rolls.

    Never mind that the black and female krewes, just like all the other krewes, also maintained their privacy. And never mind that the parades were a generous and spectacular gift to the people. Everything of value in our society must be wrecked. Because social justice.

    Social justice is why we can’t have nice things anymore.

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  86. Bleuteaux says:

    Assuming all of the country club discrimination stories are true, can we step back for a moment and realize the astonishing lack of self awareness required to complain about access to a country club?

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    • Replies: @guest
    Jews ain't blacks. They're not fighting to sit at lunch counters. They started with "Let me into Harvard or else!" and have only set their sights higher since.
    , @Forbes
    Exactly.
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  87. How many members at Woodmont Country Club, and of those how many Blacks?

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  88. fish says:
    @anon
    Is this the dumbest thing ever tweeted by a smart person?

    https://twitter.com/MaryRobinette/status/545428674812465152

    Arguing facts not in evidence.

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    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    I think the properly-worded objection here is "no foundation" or "assuming facts not in evidence," but sustained, anyway.
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  89. @John Mansfield
    Along the Potomac River, a dozen miles west of Woodmont Country Club, is a cleverly named club:

    "Bretton Woods Recreation Center was established by the International Monetary Fund in 1968 in order to provide attractive and non-discriminatory recreational facilities for its staff, retirees and immediate family. The staff of other international treaty organizations and embassies were also invited to join as associate members. Additionally, families who do no qualify under the previous criteria may also be admitted as members through the sponsored member program.
    "Located next to the C&O Canal and the Potomac River, the Center’s spectacular natural setting is ideal for relaxation. With 285 acres of manicured turf and mature trees, you can experience golf, tennis, soccer, swimming and other outdoor sporting activities. Our pavilion area can be used for outdoor picnics or gatherings. The Center’s Clubhouse boasts two dining rooms with scenic views of the golf course, a banquet room for special events and space for corporate meetings and events."

    I know a member who lives near the club. He said the non-American membership has thinned in recent years, so the club has been willing to let Americans like himself join.

    The courses in DC might not be as great as in some other places, but they have prestige.

    https://www.burningtreecc.org/

    https://tpc.com/potomac/membership/

    https://www.ccclub.org/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Golfer
    I'm sure he'd have a look at Columbia CC as well. He's played frequently with Tony Kornheiser who's a member there. Believe it's a mixed club, as an Irish-Catholic college friend plays there as well.

    I can't imagine wanting anybody with a secret service entourage to join my club. While there are surely some who'd like the notoriety associated with having an ex-President as a member, most core golfers object to anything that interferes with their ability to just play.
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  90. @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Grew up in the Potomac/Rockville area, and have at least been around the people involved (from the Woodmont side of the house, anyway) even if I wasn't included in all their reindeer games.

    Woodmont has not shied away from having gentile members they were comfortable with (and IIRC, there were other, less-expensive clubs in the area that most people would be a lot more comfortable at) any more than the JCC right by there on Montrose RD would turn away community members by religion.

    As to why Woodmont was originally founded, I know for a fact Burning Bush wouldn't let Jewish people play as guests into the 60s, if not the 70s.

    ‘Burning Bush’ would have been Al Czervik’s answer to Bushwood, or even better, Burning Tree: https://www.burningtreecc.org/

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    • Replies: @The Only Catholic Unionist
    *blushes* Right you are. "Burning Bush" was the joke when we were growing up ...

    (the things we used to yell at games against Whitman would probably get the kids nowadays some kind of a "hate crime" rap :-) )
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  91. FLgeezer says:
    @Jefferson
    Eric Michael Dyson is back in the news.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/magazine/michael-eric-dyson-believes-in-individual-reparations.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.amren.com/news/2017/01/michael-eric-dyson-believes-individual-reparations/

    "At the end of your sermon, you do a “benediction” section, in which you talk about making reparations on the local and individual level: donating to groups like the United Negro College Fund or a scholarship program, but also, to cite your example from the book, paying “the black person who cuts your grass double what you might ordinarily pay.” That gave me pause!"

    Since when do Non Immigrant American born Blacks cut other people's grass?

    Has anybody here on The Unz ever had your grass cut by an African American?

    Willie Perkins cut our lawn for about three months but then stopped showing up.

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  92. Lugash says:
    @Jefferson
    Off topic, celebrities on Twitter are morally judging Donald J. Trump for the supposed goldenshowergate. That's rich coming from Hollywood, an industry that is full of homosexual pedophiles. Corey Haim and Corey Feldman were passed around like child sex slaves when they were minors by dirty old perv Gay Hollywood execs and producers.

    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They’re trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.

    I think we’re going to see a bunch of high level intelligence officials fleeing the country soon.

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    • Replies: @Thea
    How can they even believe in treason if they do not believe in national self interest.


    I'm still awaiting treason trials for Bush & Blair. Doubt the principled left will deliver.
    , @Boomstick
    The correct name for the affair is "Golden Gate."

    Trump wiped the floor with the media at his press conference today. I think the CNN reporter is still suffering from rectal bleeding.

    Presumably the document was leaked by the IC. It's interesting but unremarked upon that they've become participants in domestic politics.
    , @Forbes
    The Deep State has declared war on the President. On the other hand, with news and satire having merged into this fake news category, lots of folks are losing their credibility. It makes Dan Rather's attempt at "fake, but true" nearly conceivable. Lapdog media is just another form of entertainment, after all, the lapdogs were never anything more than ankle-biters...
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  93. @Bill B.
    OT

    Unexpected support for HBD?

    A few seconds into the trailer for 2016 film "The Intent" about black gangsters in the UK the narrator says "it was in my DNA":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GeaxA9IelQ

    Funny you should bring that film up.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-rapper-dvs-jailed-for-a3437176.html

    A London rapper who raped and tortured a woman with a burning iron in a horrific three-day ordeal while she was kept prisoner in his home has been jailed for 23 years.

    Courtney Hutchinson, known as DVS, force-fed and burnt the woman, made her take scalding showers and savagely beat her before repeatedly raping her and telling her she would die.

    In a sickening turn of events, the attack on the woman, who was just 17 when she met Brixton-born Hutchinson, mirrored that of a similar one acted out by the rapper in a film he starred in.

    The rapper – best known for songs Hometown and Passion – played Brownin in a gangster film called The Intent. In one scene Brownin is seen burning a man with a hot iron – the same form of torture he was to inflict on his victim months later.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Arclight
    Rap is pretty heavy on fantasy involving sex and violence - I wonder how much 'youth' crime is just a product of immature kids acting out some gangsta fantasy in their heads. I see plenty of them walking down the street or standing at the bus stop with headphones on rapping and gesticulating to no one in particular, as though they are performing for some invisible audience.
    , @Bill B.
    Yikes.

    The film reeks of bad faith and wafer thin talent being stretched to breaking point.
    , @Johann Ricke

    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”.
     
    Precisely. One of the blog author's recurring themes is that because an exceptional individual shone through - Jim Crow was a nothingburger. Just because we have a mild version of Jim Crow in reverse today doesn't mean Jim Crow wasn't a grim, oppressive reality back in the day. Heck, the milk-and-water version of reverse Jim Crow we have now helped win Trump a presidential election. The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
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  94. Adar. says:

    When Michael Jordan was playing for the Bulls he applied for membership at three Jewish country clubs and was denied at each one.

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  95. JimB says:

    “Or perhaps Jews enjoyed the company of their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other by providing a romantic country estate for socializing?”

    The old German-Jewish families of the late nineteenth and early 20th Century, collectively referred to in New York as “Our Crowd,” were highly assimilated and extremely patriotic. They had no trouble gaining entry into IV League colleges and WASP dominated country clubs. However, because of their level of assimilation, they risked losing their Jewishness, ideally preserved through marriage and family life. Example: Robert Moses, the Master Builder of NYC. He was born to wealthy Jewish parents, raised in a secular Jewish home, attended Yale, and started off as a liberal progressive reformer, eventually switching to urban planning and setting up public benefit corporations in NYC that left a monumental legacy in the city. But he ended up marrying an Episcopalian and converting to Christianity. After that, he became virulently hated by the Jewish Left, notably dominated by non-”Our Crowd” Jews. Based on my one data point, I believe Steve that the Our Crowd Jews may have established country clubs like Woodmont to prevent defection of their highest achievers to the Christian gentile masses, with whom they comfortably mingled — perhaps too comfortably.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. For example, Oscar Greeley Clendenning Hammerstein II was a Protestant as his name suggests. His father was German Jewish, his mother was not. His musicals, from Showboat onward, often had themes of inclusiveness and intermarriage.

    Felix Mendelsohn, the grandson of the founder of the Jewish Enlightenment, Moses Mendelsohn, was Christian, just as Moses' orthodox critics had warned would happen.

    Having your own country club so your young people can mingle at the pool and at dances sounds like a constructive compromise between, say, wrapping your daughters in tents versus disappearing as a people.

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  96. The Jewish clubs will want Obama. He has 2 daughters and they will want their sons to marry them.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Who would possibly want Michelle Obama as a mother-in-law for their own sons? It must be hell.
    , @Gary in Gramercy
    You don't actually know any Jewish mothers, do you? (If your comment was purely tongue-in-cheek, call it a wash.)
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  97. Arclight says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    Funny you should bring that film up.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-rapper-dvs-jailed-for-a3437176.html

    A London rapper who raped and tortured a woman with a burning iron in a horrific three-day ordeal while she was kept prisoner in his home has been jailed for 23 years.

    Courtney Hutchinson, known as DVS, force-fed and burnt the woman, made her take scalding showers and savagely beat her before repeatedly raping her and telling her she would die.

    In a sickening turn of events, the attack on the woman, who was just 17 when she met Brixton-born Hutchinson, mirrored that of a similar one acted out by the rapper in a film he starred in.

    The rapper – best known for songs Hometown and Passion - played Brownin in a gangster film called The Intent. In one scene Brownin is seen burning a man with a hot iron – the same form of torture he was to inflict on his victim months later.
     

    Rap is pretty heavy on fantasy involving sex and violence – I wonder how much ‘youth’ crime is just a product of immature kids acting out some gangsta fantasy in their heads. I see plenty of them walking down the street or standing at the bus stop with headphones on rapping and gesticulating to no one in particular, as though they are performing for some invisible audience.

    Read More
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  98. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @AnotherDad

    Or perhaps Jews enjoyed the company of their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other by providing a romantic country estate for socializing?
     
    C'mon Steve stop with this retconning.

    Jews have *always* tried to associate with the broader community they were in. They've never had any policies or practices to keep to themselves, but have always been champions of integration. If you don't know that just ask them!

    What was it about 1913 and exclusive Jewish organizations?

    “Alpha Epsilon Pi was founded in 1913 under the Washington Square Arch at New York University (NYU) by Charles C. Moskowitz and 10 other Jewish men: David K. Schafer, Isador M. Glazer, Herman L. Kraus, Arthur E. Leopold, Benjamin M. Meyer, Arthur M. Lipkint, Charles J. Pintel, Maurice Plager, Hyman Shulman, and Emil J. Lustgarten. These men are known as the “Immortal 11.” Their first pledge was Samuel L. Epstein.[7]

    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University’s School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone. At this point, the group of 11 men began meeting regularly in a German rathskeller called “Haan’s Ladies’ and Gentlemen’s Restaurant, Cafe and Rathskeller”. Official school recognition of AEPi was granted on November 7.[7]“

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University’s School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone.

    He had 10 "close Jewish friends" at NYU after having "just transferred" there?

    He asked that all 10 of his closest friends be extended invitations to join, too, right after he received a bid? Had they been rejected? Did they even pledge? Talk about a sense of entitlement!

    Note that the story kind of suggests that his "close friends" were rejected because they were jewish but the actual facts it gives points in another direction.
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  99. Jack D says:

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members…

    Steve: ….many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.

    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”. Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly “new money” (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs) and felt insecure. They wanted to set up a social aristocracy with clearly defined class lines as existed in England but nothing like that existed so they had to invent it from scratch. Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution. Mount Vernon and Monticello were neglected for most of the 19th century but they were revived and turned into museums (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family – long story). WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the “wrong sort” of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc. The old Groucho Marx joke was that “any club that would have me as a member, I don’t want to belong to.” The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”.

    You know, it takes a hell of a lot of gall for a jew to complain about exclusion and exclusivity, when jewishness itself--from the Torah to contemporary practices--had been all about exclusion and exclusivity.

    As if jews in 1913--and now--don't exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break.

    Everyone (even the WASPS)

    Why should we blame Anglo-Saxons for being somewhat circumspect about people who use racial slurs against them?


    Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution.

    As if jews don't obsess over their alleged ancestors. Pick the holiday.

    WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the “wrong sort” of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc.

    And jews exclude Gentiles from their identity group and social circles. The issue here is and has been for centuries that jews seek all the privileges of membership in groups while refusing to become full members of such groups and bear the concomitant burdens of membership.

    The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    That is the whole point of Judaism, actually. It is perhaps one of the most sophisticated systems of social exclusion ever devised. You have a lot of gall, my friend. A lot of gall.
    , @syonredux

    but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”. Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly “new money” (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs)
     
    Not entirely true. There was a lot of tension in the post-Civil War period between the "Old Money" elites and the nouveau riche. Edith Wharton's work (Age of Innocence, etc) provides a good, albeit rather biased (as a member of the patrician class, Wharton felt a great deal of disdain towards "upstarts"), portrait. William Dean Howells' The Rise of Silas Lapham is much more even-handed in its treatment of the eponymous protagonist's attempts to crack Brahmin society in 1870s Boston.
    , @syonredux
    Since I hate waiting:

    but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”. Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly “new money” (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs)

     

    Not entirely true. There was a lot of tension in the post-Civil War period between the “Old Money” elites and the nouveau riche. Edith Wharton’s work (Age of Innocence, etc) provides a good, albeit rather biased (as a member of the patrician class, Wharton felt a great deal of disdain towards “upstarts”), portrait. William Dean Howells’ The Rise of Silas Lapham is much more even-handed in its treatment of the eponymous protagonist’s attempts to crack Brahmin society in 1870s Boston.
    , @syonredux
    RE: New vs Old money,

    I've always loved how Howells (in The Rise of Silas Lapham) depicts the self-made man's struggles with mastering proper form:

    He [Silas Lapham] held out openly, but on his way home the next day, in a sudden panic, he cast anchor before his tailor’s door and got measured for a dress-coat. After that he began to be afflicted about his waist-coat, concerning which he had hitherto been airily indifferent. He tried to get opinion out of his family, but they were not so clear about it as they were about the frock. It ended in their buying a book of etiquette, which settled the question adversely to a white waistcoat. The author, however, after being very explicit in telling them not to eat with their knives, and above all not to pick their teeth with their forks,–a thing which he said no lady or gentleman ever did,–was still far from decided as to the kind of cravat Colonel Lapham ought to wear: shaken on other points, Lapham had begun to waver also concerning the black cravat. As to the question of gloves for the Colonel, which suddenly flashed upon him one evening, it appeared never to have entered the thoughts of the etiquette man, as Lapham called him. Other authors on the same subject were equally silent, and Irene could only remember having heard, in some vague sort of way, that gentlemen did not wear gloves so much any more.
     
    , @syonredux

    (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family – long story).
     
    But an interesting one, as it serves to illustrate the veneration that Jews felt for Jefferson prior to the post-1965 era. Monticello was acquired by Uriah Phillips Levy (the first Jewish commodore in the US Navy):

    Levy was a great admirer of Thomas Jefferson:[9]
    "I consider Thomas Jefferson to be one of the greatest men in history, the author of the Declaration and an absolute democrat. He serves as an inspiration to millions of Americans. He did much to mould our Republic in a form in which a man's religion does not make him ineligible for political or governmental life."

    The Monticello estate had been owned by more than one person since Jefferson's death, and considerable property had been sold off. In 1834, Levy paid $2,700 for the 218-acre (88 ha) Monticello—which is equivalent to $64,800 in today's dollars. Levy undertook to have the long-neglected home repaired, restored, and preserved. He also bought hundreds of additional acres that had been part of the plantation, to add to what was left.
    Levy used Monticello as a vacation home. From 1837 to 1839, his widowed mother Rachel Levy lived there until her death; she is buried along Mulberry Row, the main plantation street adjacent to the mansion.[10]

     


    Upon his death in 1862, Levy left Monticello to the American people to be used as an agricultural school for the orphans of Navy warrant officers. Because of the American Civil War, Congress refused to accept the donation. The Confederate government seized and sold the property; lawyers for Levy's estate recovered the property after the war.
    Following two lawsuits by family members over Levy's will, with 47 parties to the suit, in 1879 his nephew Jefferson Monroe Levy bought out the other heirs for $10,050, and took control of Monticello.[11] He had it repaired and restored. He sold it in 1923 to the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation, which has renovated and restored the property as a house museum.
     
    And you can even discern the respect in Shapiro's anti-UVA poem "University":



    "And the true nobleman, once a democrat,
    Sleeps on his private mountain. He was one
    Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad;
    This school he held his art and epitaph.
    But now it takes from him his name,
    Falls open like a dishonest look,
    And shows us, rotted and endowed,
    Its senile pleasure."

    Note how the contrast involves the gulf between Jefferson ("The true nobleman," "Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad") and the university, which "takes from him his name."


    Nowadays, as evidenced by Erdely's rape hoax article, things have been inverted, and the university should be ashamed of its slave-owning founder...
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  100. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Nativists in the GOP should groom and run an American-Indian as president.

    His message should be ‘enough invasion. red man lose land to white man, black man, brown man, and immigrants. enough loss. from now on, red man get most consideration. America must respect nativism of red man and say no more to invasivism and replacivism’

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  101. Busby says:

    If they waive the 80k fee, is that taxable income?

    Within 3 years, Obama will be a member of Augusta National.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Busby, Obama would drool to play Augusta, but remember he's too PC to join a club that denied membership to women.
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  102. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    When I researched the 21st Century Jewish obsession with hazily-remembered family stories of great-grandpa getting blackballed by country clubs, I discovered that many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories got retconned to blame gentiles.
     
    Russian oligarchs can be problematic...


    Prior to the introduction of the 10% quota, wherein no more than 10% of the student body may come from one country, different nationalities made up the majority of students at Le Rosey.[21] In the 1950s and 1960s, the majority of students were Americans, Italians, and Greeks, in the 1970s came the Arabs and Iranians, in the 1980s came the Japanese and Koreans, and in the 1990s came the Russians.[21] During the 1990s, the children of Russian oligarchs, who made up a third of the student body,[22] gained notoriety for "terrorizing" other students, resulting in the withdrawal of at least one non-Russian student.[21][23]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_Le_Rosey#History

    When he was 14, Casablancas' father sent him to Institut Le Rosey, an elite boarding school in Switzerland.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Casablancas#Early_life.2C_education.2C_and_personal_life


    Boombox (ft. Julian Casablancas)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yvEYKRF5IA

    Addendum:

    Andy Samberg, who co-wrote the song “Boombox,” is Alfred J. Marrow’s grandson:

    He is Jewish; his maternal grandfather, industrial psychologist and philanthropist Alfred J. Marrow, served as the executive chair of the American Jewish Congress. Samberg has described himself as “not particularly religious.”[8][9][10] He is a third cousin of U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin, as their maternal grandfathers were first cousins.[11]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Samberg#Early_life

    Mr. Marrow was affiliated with these two country clubs:

    Old Oaks Country Club – Purchase, New York
    Whippoorwill Country Club – Armonk, New York

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_J._Marrow#Other_affiliations

    How racism came to be called a mental illness — and why that’s a problem

    Others focused less on society and more on the individual. In 1950, “The Authoritarian Personality” gained widespread attention among academic and lay audiences alike for claiming racism and authoritarianism — like that in Nazi Germany — were not only psychological but rooted in childhood experiences, particularly the presence of a strong and overbearing father.

    The book was widely criticized but was nevertheless influential. For example, in a speech before the annual conference of the National Urban League in 1958, psychologist Alfred J. Marrow argued that the psychological causes and consequences of extreme hatred were evident simply by scanning the daily newspapers. Marrow said “the problem is primarily psychological in nature, [and] we must turn for guidance and help to the behavioral scientists.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/06/07/how-racism-came-to-be-called-a-mental-illness-and-why-thats-a-problem/

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    • Replies: @FKA Max


    It’s ironic that the Madoff scandal, with its tales of exclusive country club life and high-priced international hedge funds, has been so destructive to an organization that was founded to be the voice of the Jewish masses. The AJCongress was founded in 1918 and became a populist counterbalance to the American Jewish Committee, which was dominated by the wealthy and conservative German-Jewish establishment.
     
    - http://forward.com/news/14905/ajcongress-crippled-by-madoff-scandal-03132/
    , @guest
    I've never needed an explanation for the "everyone who disagrees with me is crazy" phenomenon, but it is nice to have specific historical knowledge of the who/whom of psychology (i.e. who gets to call whom crazy).

    For instance I've always wondered who decided gays aren't crazy anymore. I think I read about it once, but I forget.
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  103. Marty says:
    @Bragadocious
    Steve must be kidding when he says golf is "so out of fashion." Go anywhere within a 50 mile radius of NYC on a nice day in July and you're looking at a 6 hour round.

    Yeah. in Marin County, word is there’s a ten year wait to join the Meadow Club. A bit north, in Santa Rosa, a club called Mayacama, started by Charles Schultz, had a 250k initiation fee when it opened in ’96, but they’re full up. There is a Bay Area club that’s begging for members- the Richmond Country Club. You know Richkond, right?

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  104. @Erik L
    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews. The German Jews got caught in that so they started their own clubs. It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people. The only thing I learned that day was that Jews were a lot more racist than we tell ourselves.

    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews.

    Do you have a source?

    It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    Ah, “rejection.” As if jews don’t reject and exclude Gentiles from their own circles.

    Eastern jews haven’t exactly been full throated advocates of intermarriage with Gentiles.

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  105. guest says:
    @Jefferson
    "Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places)"

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    Eddie Murphy is about the same age as Our Obama. I can imagine confusing him for a Vietnam vet. Then again, Trading Places wasn’t exactly a realistic movie, and I think he disguises himself with glasses and a hoodie, anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    Eddie Murphy is about the same age as Our Obama. I can imagine confusing him for a Vietnam vet. Then again, Trading Places wasn’t exactly a realistic movie, and I think he disguises himself with glasses and a hoodie, anyway.
     
    I think the gag there was that Billy Ray Valentine was pretending to be blind, so the passersby and officers shouldn't be able to see that he was far too young to have been Agent Orange in Vietnam.
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  106. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber, the executive director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, D.C.
     
    Of course, it would be quite interesting to know when Woodmont (founded in 1913) admitted its first Black member......

    Politico’s Mike Allen wrote that “the smart money” is on Woodmont Country Club in Rockville, Maryland. Allen wrote that other D.C. country clubs such as the Burning Tree Club and Chevy Chase Country Club are unlikely choices due to a history of discrimination
     
    Forget Blacks, when did Woodmont admit its first non-Jewish member?

    and a “snooty” feel.
     
    Dunno, this sounds fairly "snooty" to me:

    Obama’s complimentary membership in the club — which charges regular members an $80,000 initiation fee — would have begun after he leaves the White House on Jan. 20, Inauguration Day.

    The Obamas will continue to live in Washington, DC — and the Rockville club would offer a relaxing respite just miles from his new home. It would also offer a chance for Obama to hit the links on “two premiere golf courses . . . known across the country for their spectacular championship play and . . . rave reviews by golfers throughout the years,” according to the club’s Web site.

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.

     

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members, according to the now-defunct Gazette newspaper.
     
    The '50s, eh? That's...a little vague. So, other clubs started admitting Jews some time between 1950 and 1959.....Which means that we're talking somewhere between 67 and 58 years ago....

    You’re not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the ’50s but that doesn’t tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs. Maybe at some point in the ’50s there were one or two clubs that started letting in the most blue chip German Jews such as Eugene Meyer (owner of the Wash Po) . I’m guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the ’70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now. The reality is not that simple. When the Supreme Court made its Brown ruling or when the Civil Rights Act was passed, 200 years of racial discrimination did not disappear in one day. There were rear guard action that were fought for decades. The SJW view that that Klan is THIS close from taking power in America is false but the idea that discrimination is beyond all living memory is equally false.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now.

    Judaism is one of the most sophisticated systems of social discrimination ever devised. Why don't you focus on dismantling that?
    , @Jefferson
    "there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews."

    That is because of demographics, not anti-Semitism. Do you really expect a country club in Nashville, Tennessee for example to have high Jewish enrollment? If you take Florida off the table there are barely any Jews living in The South.

    , @syonredux

    You’re not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the ’50s but that doesn’t tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs.
     
    But when were ALL (otherwise suitable) non-Jews accepted at ALL the Jewish clubs....

    I’m guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the ’70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.
     
    And when did all of the Jewish clubs start taking in a token non-Jew or two?

    And I'm pretty sure that there are STILL Jewish clubs that are not exactly rolling in non-Jews.....
    , @Forbes
    I dunno. They're private clubs for a reason. You don't like the idea--don't join. Last I checked the first amendment right to assembly is understood to mean a right to association with whom one chooses. They're social membership clubs, after all. The Harvard Club wouldn't accept me as a member--why is their private right of association (exclusion, discrimination) any different than any other private club?
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  107. Jack D says:
    @Jefferson
    Off topic, celebrities on Twitter are morally judging Donald J. Trump for the supposed goldenshowergate. That's rich coming from Hollywood, an industry that is full of homosexual pedophiles. Corey Haim and Corey Feldman were passed around like child sex slaves when they were minors by dirty old perv Gay Hollywood execs and producers.

    Not to mention Prof. Irwin Corey! There is something about being a Corey that makes you irresistible to certain people. Prof. Corey claims he got himself kicked out of the Army in WWII by claiming to be gay.

    Prof. Corey is, BTW, 102 years old and still alive and as coherent as he ever was, God bless him.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1560959/videoplayer/vi562080537?ref_=tt_ov_vi

    (Note the Communist Party of the USA mug.)

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  108. @Jack D

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members...

    Steve: ....many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.
     
    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about "inclusion" and "diversity" but 1913 America was about "exclusion" and "exclusivity". Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly "new money" (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs) and felt insecure. They wanted to set up a social aristocracy with clearly defined class lines as existed in England but nothing like that existed so they had to invent it from scratch. Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution. Mount Vernon and Monticello were neglected for most of the 19th century but they were revived and turned into museums (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family - long story). WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the "wrong sort" of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc. The old Groucho Marx joke was that "any club that would have me as a member, I don't want to belong to." The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”.

    You know, it takes a hell of a lot of gall for a jew to complain about exclusion and exclusivity, when jewishness itself–from the Torah to contemporary practices–had been all about exclusion and exclusivity.

    As if jews in 1913–and now–don’t exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break.

    Everyone (even the WASPS)

    Why should we blame Anglo-Saxons for being somewhat circumspect about people who use racial slurs against them?

    Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution.

    As if jews don’t obsess over their alleged ancestors. Pick the holiday.

    WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the “wrong sort” of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc.

    And jews exclude Gentiles from their identity group and social circles. The issue here is and has been for centuries that jews seek all the privileges of membership in groups while refusing to become full members of such groups and bear the concomitant burdens of membership.

    The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    That is the whole point of Judaism, actually. It is perhaps one of the most sophisticated systems of social exclusion ever devised. You have a lot of gall, my friend. A lot of gall.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "As if jews in 1913–and now–don’t exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break."

    The majority of Jews marry outside their tribe. So much for racist views about intermarriage. Jewish Millennials who have 2 Jewish parents are in the Minority.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    Opi, Jews need WASP, because someone has to pay retail.
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  109. JohnnyGeo says:
    @Jefferson
    "Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places)"

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    well, he also tries to pass himself off as blind and legless

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  110. @Jack D
    You're not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the '50s but that doesn't tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs. Maybe at some point in the '50s there were one or two clubs that started letting in the most blue chip German Jews such as Eugene Meyer (owner of the Wash Po) . I'm guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the '70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now. The reality is not that simple. When the Supreme Court made its Brown ruling or when the Civil Rights Act was passed, 200 years of racial discrimination did not disappear in one day. There were rear guard action that were fought for decades. The SJW view that that Klan is THIS close from taking power in America is false but the idea that discrimination is beyond all living memory is equally false.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now.

    Judaism is one of the most sophisticated systems of social discrimination ever devised. Why don’t you focus on dismantling that?

    Read More
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  111. guest says:
    @Thea
    Ot
    Why does the left, who doesn't recognize concepts like national sovereignty, care what Russia does? They are the globalist post-nationalist so "Russian interference" is really just potential future Anericans becoming politically active.

    Russian interference would he fine if it was communist Russia, for instance. But this is Evil Nazi Russia, which hates gays and likes orthodoxy and isn’t as weighed down by the chains of international high finance as they’d like. So they’re the enemy.

    Or maybe they’re the enemy just because we need those. Oherwise, what would we do with ourselves? NOT conquer the world? Where’s the fun in that?

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  112. Jack D says:
    @Erik L
    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews. The German Jews got caught in that so they started their own clubs. It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people. The only thing I learned that day was that Jews were a lot more racist than we tell ourselves.

    What you are saying is true of social or city clubs but not golf clubs. The 1st 18 hole golf course in America was not built until 1894, which just about coincided with the great Ellis Island wave of Russian Jews who set off anti-Semitism in America by their great #’s and their nouveau riche ways. Before discrimination can really get going you need a critical mass. There is no American stereotype or history of discrimination against say Slovenians because (until Melania) most Americans have never even met a Slovenian. That was the position of Jews in pre-great wave America – a tiny (and mostly well established) minority.

    However, there were earlier city clubs in places like SF that had (German) Jews among their founders but then when American anti-Semitism really got going in the 20th century they would no longer let in Jews.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    So what was it about Russian Jews that set off anti-Semitism? Not arguing; just asking.
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  113. Bill B. says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    Funny you should bring that film up.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-rapper-dvs-jailed-for-a3437176.html

    A London rapper who raped and tortured a woman with a burning iron in a horrific three-day ordeal while she was kept prisoner in his home has been jailed for 23 years.

    Courtney Hutchinson, known as DVS, force-fed and burnt the woman, made her take scalding showers and savagely beat her before repeatedly raping her and telling her she would die.

    In a sickening turn of events, the attack on the woman, who was just 17 when she met Brixton-born Hutchinson, mirrored that of a similar one acted out by the rapper in a film he starred in.

    The rapper – best known for songs Hometown and Passion - played Brownin in a gangster film called The Intent. In one scene Brownin is seen burning a man with a hot iron – the same form of torture he was to inflict on his victim months later.
     

    Yikes.

    The film reeks of bad faith and wafer thin talent being stretched to breaking point.

    Read More
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  114. Steve, why are you messing around with this topic? Don’t you know that Golden Showers is the most important topic on the internet at the moment?

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I'm calling BS on Golden Showers right now. More like Weapons of Mass Urination to me. But I like that they highlighted it in yellow.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C12QV-GUkAARP-e.jpg
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  115. Thea says:
    @Lugash
    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They're trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.

    I think we're going to see a bunch of high level intelligence officials fleeing the country soon.

    How can they even believe in treason if they do not believe in national self interest.

    I’m still awaiting treason trials for Bush & Blair. Doubt the principled left will deliver.

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  116. Jack D says:
    @Karl
    iSteve > their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other

    didn't work out too well for Jared Kushner's dad, did it?


    12 Clyde > Where the ambassador of Kazakhstan can hob nob with the ambassadors from African kleptocracies and learn golf at the same time.


    At the moment an Ambassador of Kazakhstan is probably more interested in meeting with the Israeli-American Council. The state security organs of Kazakhstan & Israel are quite friendly at the moment

    PS: Judging from the feature-writeups, the letters, and advertisements in "We are in America" magazine ($36/year to P.O.Box 570283 Tarzana CA 91357.... but brush up on your Hebrew), Israeli-Americans aren't banging the drums to get fed by JewishAmerican-operated kitchens

    Arclight > although the food is quite good

    go to one of their meals AFTER you've had a course or two of outside appetizers and hor d'oevrs to take the edge off your hunger.... then get back to us on that judgment?

    I’ve never had country club food that was any good but some are worse than other, like the different circles of hell. Jewish clubs are located somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd circle of hell, where the prime rib has been on the steam table a little too long and has lost its rosy color, but WASP and Irish clubs are somewhere in the 7th or 8th circle where the crab cakes have gone completely “off” but they serve them anyway. However, they have well stocked bars and a good supply of clear ice to cool the fires.

    Country club dining rooms suffer from the bane of all good service, from the DMV to Soviet grocery stores – the captive audience.

    Read More
    • Replies: @G Pinfold
    This is why we have the blackball. You let 'em in and right away they're kvetching about the food.
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  117. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    You're not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the '50s but that doesn't tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs. Maybe at some point in the '50s there were one or two clubs that started letting in the most blue chip German Jews such as Eugene Meyer (owner of the Wash Po) . I'm guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the '70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now. The reality is not that simple. When the Supreme Court made its Brown ruling or when the Civil Rights Act was passed, 200 years of racial discrimination did not disappear in one day. There were rear guard action that were fought for decades. The SJW view that that Klan is THIS close from taking power in America is false but the idea that discrimination is beyond all living memory is equally false.

    “there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.”

    That is because of demographics, not anti-Semitism. Do you really expect a country club in Nashville, Tennessee for example to have high Jewish enrollment? If you take Florida off the table there are barely any Jews living in The South.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Birmingham, Alabama had enough Jews to support two Jewish country clubs, a German and a Russian/Polish, until the late 20th Century when they merged.
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  118. syonredux says:
    @Jack D
    You're not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the '50s but that doesn't tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs. Maybe at some point in the '50s there were one or two clubs that started letting in the most blue chip German Jews such as Eugene Meyer (owner of the Wash Po) . I'm guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the '70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now. The reality is not that simple. When the Supreme Court made its Brown ruling or when the Civil Rights Act was passed, 200 years of racial discrimination did not disappear in one day. There were rear guard action that were fought for decades. The SJW view that that Klan is THIS close from taking power in America is false but the idea that discrimination is beyond all living memory is equally false.

    You’re not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the ’50s but that doesn’t tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs.

    But when were ALL (otherwise suitable) non-Jews accepted at ALL the Jewish clubs….

    I’m guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the ’70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    And when did all of the Jewish clubs start taking in a token non-Jew or two?

    And I’m pretty sure that there are STILL Jewish clubs that are not exactly rolling in non-Jews…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don't belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.
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  119. syonredux says:
    @Jefferson
    "Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places)"

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    I thought that that was part of the joke, that he was obviously too young to have served in Vietnam

    Read More
    • Replies: @nglaer
    Speaking of Eddie Murphy, I came across this yesterday. Sure it's familiar to many of you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhaKVu7a-xw

    A famous writer we all know quoted the lyrics in a rap music piece, not recognizing they were originally based on this parody.
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  120. Well, if Woodmont blackballs him maybe he can work as a caddy, and at Congressional for sure. I worked Congressional as a caddy and was the only white guy there. Not sure Obama likes black people much though.

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  121. PeterZZZ says:

    Are there still doubts in some peoples minds that Jews have dual loyalties?

    Read More
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  122. I’m Jewish and see nothing wrong with non-Jews preferring, for whatever the reason, to exclude Jews from their country clubs, and with doing just that.

    Jews have no sort of right to the company of others–or even to just their good will; and any law saying otherwise is an infringement, blatant and outrageous, on the inalienable right to freedom of association.

    Same goes for any other people, including the Blacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    There is a difference between violating a private group's freedom of association by legal force and "seeing nothing wrong" which their policies.

    In the case of country clubs, wasn't it almost entirely a matter of private pressure, not the state, ending discrimination?
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  123. @Anonymous Nephew
    Funny you should bring that film up.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-rapper-dvs-jailed-for-a3437176.html

    A London rapper who raped and tortured a woman with a burning iron in a horrific three-day ordeal while she was kept prisoner in his home has been jailed for 23 years.

    Courtney Hutchinson, known as DVS, force-fed and burnt the woman, made her take scalding showers and savagely beat her before repeatedly raping her and telling her she would die.

    In a sickening turn of events, the attack on the woman, who was just 17 when she met Brixton-born Hutchinson, mirrored that of a similar one acted out by the rapper in a film he starred in.

    The rapper – best known for songs Hometown and Passion - played Brownin in a gangster film called The Intent. In one scene Brownin is seen burning a man with a hot iron – the same form of torture he was to inflict on his victim months later.
     

    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”.

    Precisely. One of the blog author’s recurring themes is that because an exceptional individual shone through – Jim Crow was a nothingburger. Just because we have a mild version of Jim Crow in reverse today doesn’t mean Jim Crow wasn’t a grim, oppressive reality back in the day. Heck, the milk-and-water version of reverse Jim Crow we have now helped win Trump a presidential election. The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

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  124. syonredux says:

    RE: Things Blackish,

    Joseph Fiennes is playing Michael Jackson:

    Here, at last, is the first trailer for Sky Arts’ Urban Myths, a new series which looks like it’ll dramatize a number of urban legends. Y’know, the one about Cary Grant experimenting with LSD, or the one about Bob Dylan showing up to a fan’s residence, or the one where Marlon Brando, Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson took a wacky, cross-country road trip in the wake of 9/11.

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/01/11/heres-our-first-look-at-joseph-fiennes-playing-michael-jackson-in-urban-myt

    Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ’s “transgendered” aspect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    "Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. "

    I remain convinced that early-80s Jacko was modelling his look on Gloria Estefan.

    http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/1990/article/the-power-the-gloria-19900614/180918/large_rect/1421267732/1401x788-85219322.jpg
    , @Jefferson
    "For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ’s “transgendered” aspect."

    So Mariah Carey should have been cast to play Michael Jackson.
    , @BB753
    They should have cast Latoya Jackson. Those two were hard to tell apart. Though Fiennes has experience playing characters without a nose.
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  125. nglaer says:
    @syonredux

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.
     
    I thought that that was part of the joke, that he was obviously too young to have served in Vietnam

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKtjBqJ4NxA

    Speaking of Eddie Murphy, I came across this yesterday. Sure it’s familiar to many of you:

    A famous writer we all know quoted the lyrics in a rap music piece, not recognizing they were originally based on this parody.

    Read More
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  126. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    Is this the dumbest thing ever tweeted by a smart person?

    https://twitter.com/MaryRobinette/status/545428674812465152

    It is dumb if Kowal is a gentile. But smart if she is Jewish.

    As Jews are minority elites in gentile nation, it is in their interest to increase diversity and resort to Divide and Rule.

    So, if by ‘realism’ Kowal meant the Realpolitik of minority elite power, it makes total sense.

    Subtracting gentile homogeneity leads to increase in Jewish Power. For Real.

    A homogeneous gentile population may be friendly to Jews. But the general norm is the people feelign resentment toward the rich and powerful, especially if the rich and powerful are of another ethnic group — consider all the bitterness among blacks about whites who are richer. As Jews generally reach the top(and some Jews can’t help abusing their privilege), there is the possibility that even gentiles who are kindly to Jews may one day turn against them. When a homogeneous gentile population turns against Jews, it could mean trouble.

    However, a diverse gentile population can’t do much harm to Jews even if all of them hate, hate, and hate Jews. Why? Because they will be too busy going at each other’s throats to come together to unite against Jewish power. Even if they hate Jews, they also hate one another.

    So, the Jewish Realism of Power favors adding diversity and subtracting homogeneity among the gentiles.
    The math formula of power: Diversity – Homogeneity = Jewish Dominance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    The risk they run with that strategy is that they get swamped by diversity, lose their superspecial head minority status, and are looked at as just more white people by the hordes they've invited in. Which is happening.
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  127. Flip says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't know about that. Wilson was an avid golfer , Then there was Ike and the Bushes. Clinton played a lot but cheated so much who knows if he was good.

    I read somewhere (maybe in The Best and the Brightest) that the incoming JFK was a much better golfer than the outgoing Eisenhower. Of course he was a lot younger too and grew up a rich man’s son.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    The age factor was balanced out by JFK's crippling disease and infirmity. Maybe the amphetamines gave him that extra get up and go he needed on the course.
    , @nglaer
    he learned the game as a kid, and was athletic enough to have a good swing. Ike learned as an adult. always makes a difference.
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  128. @Anonymous
    I don't know about that. Wilson was an avid golfer , Then there was Ike and the Bushes. Clinton played a lot but cheated so much who knows if he was good.

    the bushes and Clinton aren’t close.

    I’ve seen trumps card after shooting below par on a difficult course. He’s not kidding when he said he could have made the senior tour if he were dedicated to golf.

    He’s also not kidding when he says he’s won legitimate club championships. He has.

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  129. Svigor says:

    Think about that for a second. We’re talking about Hussein Obama, lightbringer, the left’s messiah, not-quite-former two-term President of the United States, and there’s enough of an argument (i.e., it’s a near enough thing, and a big enough flap) in a club full of donor class Jews to put his acceptance in doubt. Israel’s rrrrreaaaaaallly important to these folks. (I wonder how many members voted for Trump) Hussein would have to nuke London to get that kind of treatment from Anglo-Saxon Americans.

    “Can you imagine how angry I would be if I had paid $80K to have to look at this guy who has done more to damage Israel than any president in American history?” an official in a Washington Jewish organization fumed to The Post.

    This will be interesting. We may get some insight into how much of the Jewish kvetching over Hussein’s abstention at the UN is genuinely held, and how much is like the performance that follows a litigant’s slip and fall.

    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They’re trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.

    One thing that immediately sprang to mind when I read the theory that the Russians trolled American intelligence/Big Media into running with PissGate was that the report was exactly the kind of thing such trolls would concoct; all sex scandal, no treason. That way, when Big Media is exposed as having been trolled, they have nothing that would have been substantive, sans partisan hatchet-work. They’re always going on about how the bedroom is nobody else’s business, when it’s leftists being caught out. I suppose the same holds true, if it was a 4Chan job.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Hussein would have to nuke London to get that kind of treatment from Anglo-Saxon Americans
     
    London would be fine. San Francisco would get him a reprimand.
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  130. @syonredux
    RE: Things Blackish,

    Joseph Fiennes is playing Michael Jackson:

    Here, at last, is the first trailer for Sky Arts' Urban Myths, a new series which looks like it'll dramatize a number of urban legends. Y'know, the one about Cary Grant experimenting with LSD, or the one about Bob Dylan showing up to a fan's residence, or the one where Marlon Brando, Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson took a wacky, cross-country road trip in the wake of 9/11.

     

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/01/11/heres-our-first-look-at-joseph-fiennes-playing-michael-jackson-in-urban-myt

    Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ's "transgendered" aspect.

    “Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. “

    I remain convinced that early-80s Jacko was modelling his look on Gloria Estefan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. “

    I remain convinced that early-80s Jacko was modelling his look on Gloria Estefan.
     
    My mother always thought that MJ was going for Diana Ross....
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  131. Jefferson says:
    @syonredux
    RE: Things Blackish,

    Joseph Fiennes is playing Michael Jackson:

    Here, at last, is the first trailer for Sky Arts' Urban Myths, a new series which looks like it'll dramatize a number of urban legends. Y'know, the one about Cary Grant experimenting with LSD, or the one about Bob Dylan showing up to a fan's residence, or the one where Marlon Brando, Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson took a wacky, cross-country road trip in the wake of 9/11.

     

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/01/11/heres-our-first-look-at-joseph-fiennes-playing-michael-jackson-in-urban-myt

    Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ's "transgendered" aspect.

    “For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ’s “transgendered” aspect.”

    So Mariah Carey should have been cast to play Michael Jackson.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Janet Jackson would be the obvious choice.
    , @guest
    Mariah looks too much like an actual woman, as opposed to Jackson's disturbing androgeny. A 60 year-old, white model-type could do it.
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  132. BB753 says:

    In exchange for free membership to Jewish golf clubs, Obama could help spread hitherto suppressed information about the Golfocaust, the vile discrimination faced by Jews in American country – clubs during the 20th century.

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  133. BB753 says:
    @syonredux
    RE: Things Blackish,

    Joseph Fiennes is playing Michael Jackson:

    Here, at last, is the first trailer for Sky Arts' Urban Myths, a new series which looks like it'll dramatize a number of urban legends. Y'know, the one about Cary Grant experimenting with LSD, or the one about Bob Dylan showing up to a fan's residence, or the one where Marlon Brando, Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson took a wacky, cross-country road trip in the wake of 9/11.

     

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/01/11/heres-our-first-look-at-joseph-fiennes-playing-michael-jackson-in-urban-myt

    Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ's "transgendered" aspect.

    They should have cast Latoya Jackson. Those two were hard to tell apart. Though Fiennes has experience playing characters without a nose.

    Read More
    • LOL: Jacobite
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  134. @Mark Caplan
    My guess is Woodmont will admit Pres. Obama on a trial basis until he shows he can carry two full bags over 18 holes in Washington's oppressive summer heat and humidity.

    Mark, My best friend,an attorney, caddied at the local Jewish country club, Westwood, in Amherst, NY. He said the members were good tippers and it’s where he got the idea to pursue a career as a lawyer. Westwood could not keep enough members to function so they opened membership to any and all a few years ago. Course is currently closed as a group of developers try to get zoning for apartments, patio homes and shopping. The whole course is now ringed in chain link fencing that have signs warning that the property is a contaminated brownfield due to pesticide use.

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  135. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. "

    I remain convinced that early-80s Jacko was modelling his look on Gloria Estefan.

    http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/1990/article/the-power-the-gloria-19900614/180918/large_rect/1421267732/1401x788-85219322.jpg

    “Naturally, SJWs are upset about a White actor playing the Whitish-looking, millennial-era Michael Jackson. For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. “

    I remain convinced that early-80s Jacko was modelling his look on Gloria Estefan.

    My mother always thought that MJ was going for Diana Ross….

    Read More
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  136. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    You’re not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the ’50s but that doesn’t tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs.
     
    But when were ALL (otherwise suitable) non-Jews accepted at ALL the Jewish clubs....

    I’m guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the ’70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.
     
    And when did all of the Jewish clubs start taking in a token non-Jew or two?

    And I'm pretty sure that there are STILL Jewish clubs that are not exactly rolling in non-Jews.....

    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don’t belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Luke Ford
    By contrast, Judaism and Jews never discriminate against anyone. Who could read the Torah and the Talmud and not come away with their message of love and inclusion? Yes, Jewish law makes no allowance for non-Jewish citizenship in a Torah state, and yes, everything Meir Kahane advocated for Israel was pure Torah, but hey, how about that Kim Kardashian?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Kahane#Ideology

    Kahane argued that there was a glory in Jewish destiny, which came through the observance of the Torah. He also noted that, "Democracy and Judaism are not the same thing."[63] Kahane also stressed that a Jewish state and Western democracy were incompatible, since Western democracy is religion-blind, and a Jewish state is religion-oriented by its very name. He also warned of the danger of non-Jewish citizens becoming a majority and voting against the Jewish character of the state: "The question is as follows: if the Arabs settle among us and make enough children to become a majority, will Israel continue to be a Jewish state? Do we have to accept that the Arab majority will decide?"[64] "Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that's cut and dried: there's no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins."

     

    , @Jefferson
    "What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don’t belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe."

    Maybe Steve meant legal segregation is in the past. Voluntary segregation is still alive & well in 2017 and will never die. That is why you can have a city where Blacks overall are in the minority, yet still have zip codes within that city that are over 90 percent Black like Dallas and Chicago for example.
    , @Captain Tripps

    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don’t belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.
     
    Yes, but the focus of the current Narrative is remarkably simplistic and narrow, as if the African and/or Jewish experience of oppression was a uniquely bad historical thing. In reality, life for most Americans of all groups in the past was a rough and tumble grind. My rural Tennessee/Carolina ancestors wouldn't have given a damn about Yankee sons-of-b*****s ' country clubs or memberships thereof because they would have been turned away at the door just as surely as an uppity Russian Jew immigrant. I'm sure my great-granddad would have said "rich folk gonna do what rich folk do; and we ain't no rich folk". But he would be happy with his American freedom to farm his small plot farm and hunt and fish, and enjoy a good pull on some locally produced whiskey because, despite his grandpappy losing the War of Northern Aggression, the Feds largely were not inserting themselves into his daily life like they do today.

    Africans have talked themselves into believing that their slave experience was some unique world historical horror. In reality, the vast majority of us are descended from slaves from some point in the past. Hell the Russian serfs (bunch of "white" folk last time I checked) didn't officially become freemen until 1861. American Jews have done extremely well in spite of this high-drama "oppression" at the hands of some evil WASP overlords. I'm not very sympathetic to this line of argument.
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  137. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    When will Proglodytes call for Open Elections? If nations should be Open Borders to all, elections should be open-ballots to all(the world).

    Some states seem to be calling for voting rights even for non-citizens. Some ultra-nuts call for voting rights even for illegals.

    Well, if we keep following this logic, it means those OUTSIDE should vote too.

    Globalism is a cancer that spreads and spreads.

    [MORE]

    It’s like homomania. It’s not about tolerance of homos but reverence for homos. Once a society begins to revere & celebrate sexual deviance, it leads to more and more freakery, with every nut demanding attention and respect.
    And when a society begins to favor the illegal over the legal and the global over the nation, the logic is like in THE SORCERER’S APPRENTICE. It never stops.

    US globalism has turned nuts.

    US globalism invades and destroys other nations in the name of spreading democracy and expanding elections. But when the results favor new regimes that the US doesn’t like, US resorts to backing military regimes again, as in Egypt.

    US globalism invites tons of people to give them the chance to vote in US elections. Apparently, the ruling elites of the US hate the political preferences of majority of whites… just like they can’t stand Hamas winning among Palestinians or Muslim Brotherhood winning in Egypt. Over there, US will support military regimes or puppet regimes to suppress democratic results US doesn’t like.
    Over there, the elites will invite tons of newcomers who will vote for the interests of the ruling elites.
    As for the results of democratic elections in Poland and Hungary? Well, that isn’t ‘democracy’ because the people won over the collaborator-elites.

    What the globo-elites are into is Hegemony, or Hege-Money, not democracy.
    Hegemocracy, a ‘democracy’ that serves Soros than represents the People.

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  138. Perfect title. To Obama, not getting a free membership = being blackballed.

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  139. Golfer says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose
    The courses in DC might not be as great as in some other places, but they have prestige.

    https://www.burningtreecc.org/

    https://tpc.com/potomac/membership/

    https://www.ccclub.org/

    I’m sure he’d have a look at Columbia CC as well. He’s played frequently with Tony Kornheiser who’s a member there. Believe it’s a mixed club, as an Irish-Catholic college friend plays there as well.

    I can’t imagine wanting anybody with a secret service entourage to join my club. While there are surely some who’d like the notoriety associated with having an ex-President as a member, most core golfers object to anything that interferes with their ability to just play.

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    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    There is a club with experience hosting ex-presidents, and future presidents:

    http://www.trumpnationalwestchester.com/

    We used to sneak on to Briarcliff Manor cc back in the day, and play a few holes. Everyone said Willie Mays was a member, which impressed all of us. It was sort of neglected, and they were looking for someone to buy the place. Someone did. Pretty sure you can't do that anymore.

    DJT gets a lot of good bargains.

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  140. @Erik L
    I read that the gentile country clubs admitted Jews before the large immigration of eastern Jews. The German Jews got caught in that so they started their own clubs. It makes sense that most actual rejection stories would be eastern Jews from German Jew clubs because any Jew back then would have known not to apply to the gentile club.

    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people. The only thing I learned that day was that Jews were a lot more racist than we tell ourselves.

    Erik, I think it’s more about associating with your own brethren than racism. I grew up in Buffalo and there were clubs and associations founded by and used exclusively by every ethnic and religious group you can think of, Jews, Greeks, Poles, Italians, Serbians, Lebanese etc.

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    • Agree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Of course, is there a meaningful distinction between "associating with your own brethren" and discrimination?
    , @Erik L
    I agree a bit but of course the definition of racism changes and by one of those definitions supported by my uncle and his ilk, this was certainly racist.
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  141. pyrrhus says:
    @Hodag
    Obama played golf at Jackson Park, a decidedly public course in the south side of Chicago now going to be refurbished as a championship course to host the renamed Western Open. He really was obscure until his speech at the Democratic Convention put him on a rocket to the top. Very few of his friends are golfers.

    In Chicago the nearest great course to his house is Beverly CC, which only barely integrated in the 90s (they barely let black kids be caddies there, and only if they go to Catholic school).

    As Steve said, belonging is much better than being guested around town. You make the schedule.

    Jackson Park? I played there a number of times during the ’70s and ’80s, and it had many black players. But I can’t imagine any way of turning it into a championship course. Furthermore, it’s in a rather dangerous area….

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    • Replies: @Hodag
    They are combining Jackson Park with South Shore across the street. Tiger Woods is the name architect.

    http://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/report-tiger-woods-to-be-lead-designer-on-chicagos-jackson-park-golf-project/

    Tiger will not actually design it but getting a famous golfer as a name architect lends prestige.

    Jack Nicholas has designed more than a few courses, most famously The Memorial in his hometown in Ohio. Ben Crenshaw, as the junior partner of Coore and Crenshaw, is part of the leading golf architects in the world right now. They will be remembered for hundreds of years, like CB Macdonald, Seth Raynor, Donald Ross etc. As a golfer, I play one of their lesser designs every summer - The Warren Course at Notre Dame. Lesser design since much of the course used to be a parking lot, literally, it was a football game parking lot. The course is a barrel of monkeys, so much fun. It makes you think.
    , @Hibernian
    The area is improving but crime is increasing everywhere in Chicago.
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  142. G Pinfold says:
    @Jack D
    I've never had country club food that was any good but some are worse than other, like the different circles of hell. Jewish clubs are located somewhere around the 2nd or 3rd circle of hell, where the prime rib has been on the steam table a little too long and has lost its rosy color, but WASP and Irish clubs are somewhere in the 7th or 8th circle where the crab cakes have gone completely "off" but they serve them anyway. However, they have well stocked bars and a good supply of clear ice to cool the fires.

    Country club dining rooms suffer from the bane of all good service, from the DMV to Soviet grocery stores - the captive audience.

    This is why we have the blackball. You let ‘em in and right away they’re kvetching about the food.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Country club food is like chain steakhouses: overpriced and heavy but pretty good if you stick to the basics. I've never been to a Jewish one as far as I know.

    My mother's family were the Pilgrims of Ashkenazi, coming over in the 1840's to 1850's from the Rhineland and Berlin and fighting in the U.S. Civil War.

    I bet outside of a few large cities the old Jews were happy to augment their very small numbers with new blood from Russia. One distant ancestor someone published an article about had to travel 40 miles by buggy to go to synagogue since his family was the only Jewish one in the small town he lived in. It was only practical to do this a few times a year.
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  143. This discussion would be incomplete if we didn’t all familiarize ourselves with…

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  144. @Jefferson
    Off topic, celebrities on Twitter are morally judging Donald J. Trump for the supposed goldenshowergate. That's rich coming from Hollywood, an industry that is full of homosexual pedophiles. Corey Haim and Corey Feldman were passed around like child sex slaves when they were minors by dirty old perv Gay Hollywood execs and producers.

    I had to look up “golden shower” to understand this latest alleged Trumpian outrage. What a disappointment! I could think of far more disgusting ways to “defile” a bedroom once used by the Obamas. And what’s with “defiling” anyway? I thought only holy objects could be defiled anyway. Oh wait…

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  145. Luke Ford says: • Website
    @Jack D
    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don't belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.

    By contrast, Judaism and Jews never discriminate against anyone. Who could read the Torah and the Talmud and not come away with their message of love and inclusion? Yes, Jewish law makes no allowance for non-Jewish citizenship in a Torah state, and yes, everything Meir Kahane advocated for Israel was pure Torah, but hey, how about that Kim Kardashian?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Kahane#Ideology

    Kahane argued that there was a glory in Jewish destiny, which came through the observance of the Torah. He also noted that, “Democracy and Judaism are not the same thing.”[63] Kahane also stressed that a Jewish state and Western democracy were incompatible, since Western democracy is religion-blind, and a Jewish state is religion-oriented by its very name. He also warned of the danger of non-Jewish citizens becoming a majority and voting against the Jewish character of the state: “The question is as follows: if the Arabs settle among us and make enough children to become a majority, will Israel continue to be a Jewish state? Do we have to accept that the Arab majority will decide?”[64] “Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that’s cut and dried: there’s no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins.”

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    • Replies: @Karl
    143. Luke Ford > Yes, Jewish law makes no allowance for non-Jewish citizenship in a Torah state

    I am no fan of halachic law, but it actually does discuss that subject at length ("Noahide Laws") , because non-Jews have always and i mean ALWAYS, lived in Eretz Israel. Kings of Israel gave tax money to non-YHWH temples. We know that's true because the bible and the Talmud are full of complaints about it. The current government of Israel does it, too. The municipality of Jerusalem gives away free Christmas trees.

    The Orthodox have never attempted to build a country. For the same reason that the Amish have never tried to.
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  146. @Hodag
    Obama played golf at Jackson Park, a decidedly public course in the south side of Chicago now going to be refurbished as a championship course to host the renamed Western Open. He really was obscure until his speech at the Democratic Convention put him on a rocket to the top. Very few of his friends are golfers.

    In Chicago the nearest great course to his house is Beverly CC, which only barely integrated in the 90s (they barely let black kids be caddies there, and only if they go to Catholic school).

    As Steve said, belonging is much better than being guested around town. You make the schedule.

    Thank you to Steve, Hodag and everyone else for golfsplaining to me. I’ve been golfing-challenged ever since my great-grandfather got blackballed at the Bialystok Country Club back in 1904.

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  147. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don't belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.

    “What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don’t belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.”

    Maybe Steve meant legal segregation is in the past. Voluntary segregation is still alive & well in 2017 and will never die. That is why you can have a city where Blacks overall are in the minority, yet still have zip codes within that city that are over 90 percent Black like Dallas and Chicago for example.

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  148. Does Woodmont Country Club count any African-Americans among its current members?

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  149. Boomstick says:
    @Lugash
    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They're trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.

    I think we're going to see a bunch of high level intelligence officials fleeing the country soon.

    The correct name for the affair is “Golden Gate.”

    Trump wiped the floor with the media at his press conference today. I think the CNN reporter is still suffering from rectal bleeding.

    Presumably the document was leaked by the IC. It’s interesting but unremarked upon that they’ve become participants in domestic politics.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    It’s interesting but unremarked upon that they’ve become participants in domestic politics.
     
    Mark Felt would be shocked, shocked I tell you.
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  150. Lot says:

    Steve portrays discrimination against Jews as a pre-war thing or limited to petty complaints about country clubs, but La Jolla had a very effective realtor conspiracy against Jews that lasted until the mid 1960′s, and only when the state threatened to move the proposed site of UCSD somewhere else if it did not end.

    http://www.lajollalight.com/sdljl-a-specter-from-our-past-longtime-residents-will-2005apr07-story.html

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    So, your complaints are exclusion from country clubs and cliffside California paradise.
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  151. AndrewR says:

    OT but very important.

    Hussein’s Department of Injustice is suing a city that is 1/3 black for not having any blacks on its city council due to an at-large voting system.

    This is the future

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2017/01/11/doj-files-voting-rights-suit-against-eastpointe/96438166/

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    • Replies: @Ed
    This future has been halted unless Sessions has let all the racism charges get to him. I doubt it.

    The story of this city is classic Sailer bait though. The 2000 Census listed blacks at <5% of the population, 2010 Census had them a 25% black & current estimates have them at 40%. The schools are now 70% black where as recently as 10 years or so ago they were 10%. Why? In addition to more blacks moving in the school district participated in a school choice system that allowed blacks from Detroit & other areas to attend their schools.

    I wonder how much of Macomb county's shift to Trump was motivated by white flight on the ground as opposed to national issues?
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  152. @Buffalo Joe
    Erik, I think it's more about associating with your own brethren than racism. I grew up in Buffalo and there were clubs and associations founded by and used exclusively by every ethnic and religious group you can think of, Jews, Greeks, Poles, Italians, Serbians, Lebanese etc.

    Of course, is there a meaningful distinction between “associating with your own brethren” and discrimination?

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  153. @Jefferson
    "there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews."

    That is because of demographics, not anti-Semitism. Do you really expect a country club in Nashville, Tennessee for example to have high Jewish enrollment? If you take Florida off the table there are barely any Jews living in The South.

    Birmingham, Alabama had enough Jews to support two Jewish country clubs, a German and a Russian/Polish, until the late 20th Century when they merged.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Birmingham, Alabama had enough Jews to support two Jewish country clubs, a German and a Russian/Polish, until the late 20th Century when they merged."

    How many Jewish billionaires are from Alabama? How many Hollywood Jewish actors are from Alabama? How many DC Jewish politicians are from Alabama?
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  154. Lot says:
    @G Pinfold
    This is why we have the blackball. You let 'em in and right away they're kvetching about the food.

    Country club food is like chain steakhouses: overpriced and heavy but pretty good if you stick to the basics. I’ve never been to a Jewish one as far as I know.

    My mother’s family were the Pilgrims of Ashkenazi, coming over in the 1840′s to 1850′s from the Rhineland and Berlin and fighting in the U.S. Civil War.

    I bet outside of a few large cities the old Jews were happy to augment their very small numbers with new blood from Russia. One distant ancestor someone published an article about had to travel 40 miles by buggy to go to synagogue since his family was the only Jewish one in the small town he lived in. It was only practical to do this a few times a year.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    There was a great wave of German immigration to the US in the 1840s and that included German Jews too.
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  155. @Hodag
    Caddyshack was a romanticized replay of Brian Doyle Murray's years as a caddy at Indian Hill Golf Club in Winnetka Illinois. While many courses keep a low profile, Indian Hill and Onwentsia are the only clubs in Chicagoland that actively deny their own existence. Most characters in Caddyshack were based on real people.

    Also, my five minutes of rooting around has Woohmont designed by William Flynn, who is decidedly not obscure. Then it seems she got a redesign by Tull, who used to build courses for Deveruex Emmet, kinda like Raynor for MacDonald. Plus Woodmont hosts a US Open qualifier, so their light is not exactly wholly under a basket.

    DC has very few good courses.

    I would love to have met the inspiration for Judge Smails.

    “Danny, I’ve sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn’t wanna do it; felt I owed it to them….”

    How ’bout a Shasta?

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    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    "how about a Fresca"

    is Shasta available anywhere but California?
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  156. Lot says:
    @Jonathan Silber
    I'm Jewish and see nothing wrong with non-Jews preferring, for whatever the reason, to exclude Jews from their country clubs, and with doing just that.

    Jews have no sort of right to the company of others--or even to just their good will; and any law saying otherwise is an infringement, blatant and outrageous, on the inalienable right to freedom of association.

    Same goes for any other people, including the Blacks.

    There is a difference between violating a private group’s freedom of association by legal force and “seeing nothing wrong” which their policies.

    In the case of country clubs, wasn’t it almost entirely a matter of private pressure, not the state, ending discrimination?

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    All the male-only clubs in NYC came under political/government pressure--IIRC, during the Koch mayoralty. New York Athletic Club went co-ed. There were overtures that tax-exempt status would be at-risk if clubs weren't open to all. Most private clubs are not profit-making enterprises, so the tax-exempt status is a work-around. The Racket Club (Park Ave.) remains male-only.
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  157. zwippu says:

    Steve

    Can you do something on the report about what places are worst for pedestrians?

    Like why do car accidents where pedestrians are killed seem to hit more Indians in North Dakota than whites.

    Why is Florida at the top of the charts.

    Someone said its our tendency to have street designed for fast cars, but those designs are in wealthier places not poorer places, no?

    https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Reservation Indians often have major drinking problems.
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  158. @JimB
    "Or perhaps Jews enjoyed the company of their fellow Jews and wished to facilitate their young marrying each other by providing a romantic country estate for socializing?"

    The old German-Jewish families of the late nineteenth and early 20th Century, collectively referred to in New York as "Our Crowd," were highly assimilated and extremely patriotic. They had no trouble gaining entry into IV League colleges and WASP dominated country clubs. However, because of their level of assimilation, they risked losing their Jewishness, ideally preserved through marriage and family life. Example: Robert Moses, the Master Builder of NYC. He was born to wealthy Jewish parents, raised in a secular Jewish home, attended Yale, and started off as a liberal progressive reformer, eventually switching to urban planning and setting up public benefit corporations in NYC that left a monumental legacy in the city. But he ended up marrying an Episcopalian and converting to Christianity. After that, he became virulently hated by the Jewish Left, notably dominated by non-"Our Crowd" Jews. Based on my one data point, I believe Steve that the Our Crowd Jews may have established country clubs like Woodmont to prevent defection of their highest achievers to the Christian gentile masses, with whom they comfortably mingled -- perhaps too comfortably.

    Right. For example, Oscar Greeley Clendenning Hammerstein II was a Protestant as his name suggests. His father was German Jewish, his mother was not. His musicals, from Showboat onward, often had themes of inclusiveness and intermarriage.

    Felix Mendelsohn, the grandson of the founder of the Jewish Enlightenment, Moses Mendelsohn, was Christian, just as Moses’ orthodox critics had warned would happen.

    Having your own country club so your young people can mingle at the pool and at dances sounds like a constructive compromise between, say, wrapping your daughters in tents versus disappearing as a people.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Closer to the subject at hand, Eugene Meyer of the Wash Po married a non-Jew and so did his daughter Katherine Graham. I wonder where they clubbed?
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  159. Jack D says:
    @Lot
    Country club food is like chain steakhouses: overpriced and heavy but pretty good if you stick to the basics. I've never been to a Jewish one as far as I know.

    My mother's family were the Pilgrims of Ashkenazi, coming over in the 1840's to 1850's from the Rhineland and Berlin and fighting in the U.S. Civil War.

    I bet outside of a few large cities the old Jews were happy to augment their very small numbers with new blood from Russia. One distant ancestor someone published an article about had to travel 40 miles by buggy to go to synagogue since his family was the only Jewish one in the small town he lived in. It was only practical to do this a few times a year.

    There was a great wave of German immigration to the US in the 1840s and that included German Jews too.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I understood it to be in the 1850s as part of the fallout from 1848.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

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  160. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    Addendum:

    Andy Samberg, who co-wrote the song ``Boombox,'' is Alfred J. Marrow's grandson:

    He is Jewish; his maternal grandfather, industrial psychologist and philanthropist Alfred J. Marrow, served as the executive chair of the American Jewish Congress. Samberg has described himself as "not particularly religious."[8][9][10] He is a third cousin of U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin, as their maternal grandfathers were first cousins.[11]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Samberg#Early_life

    Mr. Marrow was affiliated with these two country clubs:

    Old Oaks Country Club - Purchase, New York
    Whippoorwill Country Club - Armonk, New York
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_J._Marrow#Other_affiliations

    How racism came to be called a mental illness — and why that’s a problem

    Others focused less on society and more on the individual. In 1950, “The Authoritarian Personality” gained widespread attention among academic and lay audiences alike for claiming racism and authoritarianism — like that in Nazi Germany — were not only psychological but rooted in childhood experiences, particularly the presence of a strong and overbearing father.

    The book was widely criticized but was nevertheless influential. For example, in a speech before the annual conference of the National Urban League in 1958, psychologist Alfred J. Marrow argued that the psychological causes and consequences of extreme hatred were evident simply by scanning the daily newspapers. Marrow said “the problem is primarily psychological in nature, [and] we must turn for guidance and help to the behavioral scientists.”
     
    - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/06/07/how-racism-came-to-be-called-a-mental-illness-and-why-thats-a-problem/

    It’s ironic that the Madoff scandal, with its tales of exclusive country club life and high-priced international hedge funds, has been so destructive to an organization that was founded to be the voice of the Jewish masses. The AJCongress was founded in 1918 and became a populist counterbalance to the American Jewish Committee, which was dominated by the wealthy and conservative German-Jewish establishment.

    http://forward.com/news/14905/ajcongress-crippled-by-madoff-scandal-03132/

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  161. @Anon
    What was it about 1913 and exclusive Jewish organizations?

    "Alpha Epsilon Pi was founded in 1913 under the Washington Square Arch at New York University (NYU) by Charles C. Moskowitz and 10 other Jewish men: David K. Schafer, Isador M. Glazer, Herman L. Kraus, Arthur E. Leopold, Benjamin M. Meyer, Arthur M. Lipkint, Charles J. Pintel, Maurice Plager, Hyman Shulman, and Emil J. Lustgarten. These men are known as the "Immortal 11." Their first pledge was Samuel L. Epstein.[7]

    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University's School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone. At this point, the group of 11 men began meeting regularly in a German rathskeller called "Haan's Ladies' and Gentlemen's Restaurant, Cafe and Rathskeller". Official school recognition of AEPi was granted on November 7.[7]"

    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University’s School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone.

    He had 10 “close Jewish friends” at NYU after having “just transferred” there?

    He asked that all 10 of his closest friends be extended invitations to join, too, right after he received a bid? Had they been rejected? Did they even pledge? Talk about a sense of entitlement!

    Note that the story kind of suggests that his “close friends” were rejected because they were jewish but the actual facts it gives points in another direction.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right, the story sounds like the mostly non-Jewish fraternity in 1913 wanted Moskowitz to pledge, but he preferred to hang out with his ten other Jewish friends, but the fraternity that wanted Moskowitz didn't want this potential pledge taking over their recruitment process. So he turned down the inclusive fraternity and founded a Jewish fraternity because he liked hanging out with his fellow Jews more.

    That seems like a constructive response and that all parties behaved honorably. But it's a little annoying that the history gets retconned into Jews once being the wholly passive victims of anti-Semitism, rather than Jewish ethnocentrism being the most energetic force in the events.

    , @Lot

    He had 10 “close Jewish friends” at NYU after having “just transferred” there?
     
    Look more carefully, the article never says that.
    , @Forbes

    He had 10 “close Jewish friends” at NYU after having “just transferred” there?
     
    It's NYU! All his friends growing up (that went to college) went to CUNY or NYU. It's a bit before my time but NYU has been known as NYJew for a long time.
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  162. Travis says:

    even WASPS find it difficult to join an exclusive Country Club without being sponsored by a current member..some Clubs require 4 sponsors, whom you have known for at least 5 years. You basically need to be asked to join, they do not accept unsolicited applications.

    at Baltusrol Gold Club you need to know eight members for at least three years to garner entry. You have be sponsored by a member just to get info about the admissions process.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Travis, Years ago I expressed interest in joining an exclusive CC and my attorney friend had his secretary draw up an "official" membership application and mail it to me. I returned it to his office with a note saying that if my friend, the attorney, couldn't join, then I would not join. I made up fake by-laws for the club that stated that they needed to have 10 blacks join before they would take in another attorney.
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  163. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Right. For example, Oscar Greeley Clendenning Hammerstein II was a Protestant as his name suggests. His father was German Jewish, his mother was not. His musicals, from Showboat onward, often had themes of inclusiveness and intermarriage.

    Felix Mendelsohn, the grandson of the founder of the Jewish Enlightenment, Moses Mendelsohn, was Christian, just as Moses' orthodox critics had warned would happen.

    Having your own country club so your young people can mingle at the pool and at dances sounds like a constructive compromise between, say, wrapping your daughters in tents versus disappearing as a people.

    Closer to the subject at hand, Eugene Meyer of the Wash Po married a non-Jew and so did his daughter Katherine Graham. I wonder where they clubbed?

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  164. Jefferson says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Birmingham, Alabama had enough Jews to support two Jewish country clubs, a German and a Russian/Polish, until the late 20th Century when they merged.

    “Birmingham, Alabama had enough Jews to support two Jewish country clubs, a German and a Russian/Polish, until the late 20th Century when they merged.”

    How many Jewish billionaires are from Alabama? How many Hollywood Jewish actors are from Alabama? How many DC Jewish politicians are from Alabama?

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  165. @Golfer
    I'm sure he'd have a look at Columbia CC as well. He's played frequently with Tony Kornheiser who's a member there. Believe it's a mixed club, as an Irish-Catholic college friend plays there as well.

    I can't imagine wanting anybody with a secret service entourage to join my club. While there are surely some who'd like the notoriety associated with having an ex-President as a member, most core golfers object to anything that interferes with their ability to just play.

    There is a club with experience hosting ex-presidents, and future presidents:

    http://www.trumpnationalwestchester.com/

    We used to sneak on to Briarcliff Manor cc back in the day, and play a few holes. Everyone said Willie Mays was a member, which impressed all of us. It was sort of neglected, and they were looking for someone to buy the place. Someone did. Pretty sure you can’t do that anymore.

    DJT gets a lot of good bargains.

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  166. Jack D says:
    @Jefferson
    "For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ’s “transgendered” aspect."

    So Mariah Carey should have been cast to play Michael Jackson.

    Janet Jackson would be the obvious choice.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Janet Jackson would be the obvious choice."

    Janet is too dark to play Michael.
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  167. The most prominent black insider in Washington is lawyer Vernon Jordan (e.g., he takes on tasks like finding Monica Lewinsky a job). He was president of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Club back in the 1990s, a big development in the DC exurbs that holds tournaments.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Steve, You mean finding Monica a job after she gave Bill a job?
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  168. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members...

    Steve: ....many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.
     
    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about "inclusion" and "diversity" but 1913 America was about "exclusion" and "exclusivity". Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly "new money" (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs) and felt insecure. They wanted to set up a social aristocracy with clearly defined class lines as existed in England but nothing like that existed so they had to invent it from scratch. Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution. Mount Vernon and Monticello were neglected for most of the 19th century but they were revived and turned into museums (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family - long story). WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the "wrong sort" of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc. The old Groucho Marx joke was that "any club that would have me as a member, I don't want to belong to." The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”. Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly “new money” (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs)

    Not entirely true. There was a lot of tension in the post-Civil War period between the “Old Money” elites and the nouveau riche. Edith Wharton’s work (Age of Innocence, etc) provides a good, albeit rather biased (as a member of the patrician class, Wharton felt a great deal of disdain towards “upstarts”), portrait. William Dean Howells’ The Rise of Silas Lapham is much more even-handed in its treatment of the eponymous protagonist’s attempts to crack Brahmin society in 1870s Boston.

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  169. @Opinionator
    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University’s School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone.

    He had 10 "close Jewish friends" at NYU after having "just transferred" there?

    He asked that all 10 of his closest friends be extended invitations to join, too, right after he received a bid? Had they been rejected? Did they even pledge? Talk about a sense of entitlement!

    Note that the story kind of suggests that his "close friends" were rejected because they were jewish but the actual facts it gives points in another direction.

    Right, the story sounds like the mostly non-Jewish fraternity in 1913 wanted Moskowitz to pledge, but he preferred to hang out with his ten other Jewish friends, but the fraternity that wanted Moskowitz didn’t want this potential pledge taking over their recruitment process. So he turned down the inclusive fraternity and founded a Jewish fraternity because he liked hanging out with his fellow Jews more.

    That seems like a constructive response and that all parties behaved honorably. But it’s a little annoying that the history gets retconned into Jews once being the wholly passive victims of anti-Semitism, rather than Jewish ethnocentrism being the most energetic force in the events.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Agree. Yours is a more nuanced and better written assessment than my own.
    , @guest
    I was just reading Philip Roth's Indignation, wherein the main character is a studious, standoffish, Jewish kid at a mostly white liberal arts college in 1950s Ohio. He spends a lot of time resenting the frat boys he has to serve at his job at a local watering hole. He's asked to join the Jewish fraternity by an alpha male type he later learns has ties to his family back in New Jersey. He resents that. He resents a lot of things.

    He is also asked to pledge at a fraternity full of socially marginal figures, which he turns down. He'd rather be alone. The book is mostly about sex, as it turns out. (Big surprise.) But the Jewish fraternity resentment, much like country club resentment, is thick.

    No one treats him harshly for his Otherness, as I recall, only his personality. In the hands of another author I can imagine he'd like the jockiest, blondest, WASPyish Big Man on Campus to personally ask him to join his frat just so he could turn him down. But here I get the honest feeling he just wants not to be bothered.

    Still, there is the particular way in which he's bothered that speaks to his limitations as racially resentful.

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  170. @zwippu
    Steve

    Can you do something on the report about what places are worst for pedestrians?

    Like why do car accidents where pedestrians are killed seem to hit more Indians in North Dakota than whites.

    Why is Florida at the top of the charts.

    Someone said its our tendency to have street designed for fast cars, but those designs are in wealthier places not poorer places, no?


    https://smartgrowthamerica.org/dangerous-by-design/

    Reservation Indians often have major drinking problems.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I live next to a reservation that got a casino while I was in High School. The Souix that I went to school with dropped out and went from wannabe gangbangers to rich wannabe gangbangers with better parties.
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  171. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members...

    Steve: ....many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.
     
    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about "inclusion" and "diversity" but 1913 America was about "exclusion" and "exclusivity". Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly "new money" (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs) and felt insecure. They wanted to set up a social aristocracy with clearly defined class lines as existed in England but nothing like that existed so they had to invent it from scratch. Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution. Mount Vernon and Monticello were neglected for most of the 19th century but they were revived and turned into museums (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family - long story). WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the "wrong sort" of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc. The old Groucho Marx joke was that "any club that would have me as a member, I don't want to belong to." The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    Since I hate waiting:

    but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”. Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly “new money” (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs)

    Not entirely true. There was a lot of tension in the post-Civil War period between the “Old Money” elites and the nouveau riche. Edith Wharton’s work (Age of Innocence, etc) provides a good, albeit rather biased (as a member of the patrician class, Wharton felt a great deal of disdain towards “upstarts”), portrait. William Dean Howells’ The Rise of Silas Lapham is much more even-handed in its treatment of the eponymous protagonist’s attempts to crack Brahmin society in 1870s Boston.

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  172. Lot says:
    @Opinionator
    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University’s School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone.

    He had 10 "close Jewish friends" at NYU after having "just transferred" there?

    He asked that all 10 of his closest friends be extended invitations to join, too, right after he received a bid? Had they been rejected? Did they even pledge? Talk about a sense of entitlement!

    Note that the story kind of suggests that his "close friends" were rejected because they were jewish but the actual facts it gives points in another direction.

    He had 10 “close Jewish friends” at NYU after having “just transferred” there?

    Look more carefully, the article never says that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Okay, I now see that it is ambiguous as to whether the group of "his close Jewish friends" is equivalent to the group of 10. But the better interpretation is probably the one I gave it. The phrasing "asked if his close Jewish friends could join" suggests in the context a kind of definite article meaning because such friends are mentioned nowhere else and the phrase is sandwiched between two references to the 10. If that is not the intended meaning, perhaps better to write "asked if several of his close Jewish friends could joint" or "asked if some friends who were jewish could join."

    Is that what you are objecting to?

    As far as the timing element in what I wrote, I do not see any cause for objection.

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  173. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    Janet Jackson would be the obvious choice.

    “Janet Jackson would be the obvious choice.”

    Janet is too dark to play Michael.

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  174. @Njguy73
    When I was a kid my uncle told me his rationalization for the local Jewish country club rejecting Michael Jordan of all people.

    Were most of the members Knicks fans?

    What I heard from a member of a country club that turned down Michael Jordan around 1990 was that he was welcome to play there anytime — just show up and he’d be put into a foursome with members. But the members weren’t crazy about the idea of Jordan as a member being able to invite his own friends, who tended to be professional gambler lowlifes and the like.

    Michael Jordan eventually joined a brand new club in the Chicago suburbs where anybody with money could join.

    By the way, speaking about body guards and security, Michael Jordan employs his old teammate Charles Oakley, a 6’10″ power forward, as his traveling companion, card-playing partner, and bodyguard, just in case some drunk wants to boast that he punched Michael Jordan. No drunk wants to recount that he got whaled on by Charles Oakley before he could even land a finger on Jordan.

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    • Replies: @Hodag
    As you said, Jordan was famously blackballed at Butler leading to an exodus of a few members, most famous of the lot Mike Kaiser, the dude that owns Bandon and many other golf properties.

    However Jordan did join Merit Club in Libertyville (the upstart I think you are talking about), Medinah and many others. He may have violated the fourteen club limit. Also, most clubs have a second club rate, with a much reduced downstroke. Clubs with national membership have around a 5 k downstroke, minimal dues and pay greens fees.

    Jordan is supposedly building a golf course in Hobe Sound, Florida. Many years ago I saw the site, dead flat but built on sand.
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  175. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members...

    Steve: ....many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.
     
    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about "inclusion" and "diversity" but 1913 America was about "exclusion" and "exclusivity". Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly "new money" (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs) and felt insecure. They wanted to set up a social aristocracy with clearly defined class lines as existed in England but nothing like that existed so they had to invent it from scratch. Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution. Mount Vernon and Monticello were neglected for most of the 19th century but they were revived and turned into museums (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family - long story). WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the "wrong sort" of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc. The old Groucho Marx joke was that "any club that would have me as a member, I don't want to belong to." The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    RE: New vs Old money,

    I’ve always loved how Howells (in The Rise of Silas Lapham) depicts the self-made man’s struggles with mastering proper form:

    He [Silas Lapham] held out openly, but on his way home the next day, in a sudden panic, he cast anchor before his tailor’s door and got measured for a dress-coat. After that he began to be afflicted about his waist-coat, concerning which he had hitherto been airily indifferent. He tried to get opinion out of his family, but they were not so clear about it as they were about the frock. It ended in their buying a book of etiquette, which settled the question adversely to a white waistcoat. The author, however, after being very explicit in telling them not to eat with their knives, and above all not to pick their teeth with their forks,–a thing which he said no lady or gentleman ever did,–was still far from decided as to the kind of cravat Colonel Lapham ought to wear: shaken on other points, Lapham had begun to waver also concerning the black cravat. As to the question of gloves for the Colonel, which suddenly flashed upon him one evening, it appeared never to have entered the thoughts of the etiquette man, as Lapham called him. Other authors on the same subject were equally silent, and Irene could only remember having heard, in some vague sort of way, that gentlemen did not wear gloves so much any more.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Al Czervik had a better idea.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I’ve always loved how Howells (in The Rise of Silas Lapham) depicts the self-made man’s struggles with mastering proper form
     
    Fortunately for today’s up-and-comers, Taco shows the way.
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  176. @Boomstick
    The correct name for the affair is "Golden Gate."

    Trump wiped the floor with the media at his press conference today. I think the CNN reporter is still suffering from rectal bleeding.

    Presumably the document was leaked by the IC. It's interesting but unremarked upon that they've become participants in domestic politics.

    It’s interesting but unremarked upon that they’ve become participants in domestic politics.

    Mark Felt would be shocked, shocked I tell you.

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  177. @syonredux
    RE: New vs Old money,

    I've always loved how Howells (in The Rise of Silas Lapham) depicts the self-made man's struggles with mastering proper form:

    He [Silas Lapham] held out openly, but on his way home the next day, in a sudden panic, he cast anchor before his tailor’s door and got measured for a dress-coat. After that he began to be afflicted about his waist-coat, concerning which he had hitherto been airily indifferent. He tried to get opinion out of his family, but they were not so clear about it as they were about the frock. It ended in their buying a book of etiquette, which settled the question adversely to a white waistcoat. The author, however, after being very explicit in telling them not to eat with their knives, and above all not to pick their teeth with their forks,–a thing which he said no lady or gentleman ever did,–was still far from decided as to the kind of cravat Colonel Lapham ought to wear: shaken on other points, Lapham had begun to waver also concerning the black cravat. As to the question of gloves for the Colonel, which suddenly flashed upon him one evening, it appeared never to have entered the thoughts of the etiquette man, as Lapham called him. Other authors on the same subject were equally silent, and Irene could only remember having heard, in some vague sort of way, that gentlemen did not wear gloves so much any more.
     

    Al Czervik had a better idea.

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  178. @Jack D
    There was a great wave of German immigration to the US in the 1840s and that included German Jews too.

    I understood it to be in the 1850s as part of the fallout from 1848.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The LATE 1840s.
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  179. @Lot

    He had 10 “close Jewish friends” at NYU after having “just transferred” there?
     
    Look more carefully, the article never says that.

    Okay, I now see that it is ambiguous as to whether the group of “his close Jewish friends” is equivalent to the group of 10. But the better interpretation is probably the one I gave it. The phrasing “asked if his close Jewish friends could join” suggests in the context a kind of definite article meaning because such friends are mentioned nowhere else and the phrase is sandwiched between two references to the 10. If that is not the intended meaning, perhaps better to write “asked if several of his close Jewish friends could joint” or “asked if some friends who were jewish could join.”

    Is that what you are objecting to?

    As far as the timing element in what I wrote, I do not see any cause for objection.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    Is that what you are objecting to?
     
    Yes. The more natural implication is not that he had a list of 10 other dudes he wanted to join the preexisting frat, but a couple friends he did not want to leave out. Wouldn't asking 10 others be pretty absurd and potentially double the normal class of new entrants?

    The longer list of frat co-founders is after he spent a while looking for the minimum number to start one.
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  180. SPMoore8 says:
    @Peripatetic commenter
    Steve, why are you messing around with this topic? Don't you know that Golden Showers is the most important topic on the internet at the moment?

    I’m calling BS on Golden Showers right now. More like Weapons of Mass Urination to me. But I like that they highlighted it in yellow.

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  181. @Svigor
    Think about that for a second. We're talking about Hussein Obama, lightbringer, the left's messiah, not-quite-former two-term President of the United States, and there's enough of an argument (i.e., it's a near enough thing, and a big enough flap) in a club full of donor class Jews to put his acceptance in doubt. Israel's rrrrreaaaaaallly important to these folks. (I wonder how many members voted for Trump) Hussein would have to nuke London to get that kind of treatment from Anglo-Saxon Americans.

    “Can you imagine how angry I would be if I had paid $80K to have to look at this guy who has done more to damage Israel than any president in American history?” an official in a Washington Jewish organization fumed to The Post.
     
    This will be interesting. We may get some insight into how much of the Jewish kvetching over Hussein's abstention at the UN is genuinely held, and how much is like the performance that follows a litigant's slip and fall.

    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They’re trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.
     
    One thing that immediately sprang to mind when I read the theory that the Russians trolled American intelligence/Big Media into running with PissGate was that the report was exactly the kind of thing such trolls would concoct; all sex scandal, no treason. That way, when Big Media is exposed as having been trolled, they have nothing that would have been substantive, sans partisan hatchet-work. They're always going on about how the bedroom is nobody else's business, when it's leftists being caught out. I suppose the same holds true, if it was a 4Chan job.

    Hussein would have to nuke London to get that kind of treatment from Anglo-Saxon Americans

    London would be fine. San Francisco would get him a reprimand.

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    • Agree: Opinionator
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  182. guest says:
    @Connecticut Famer
    “How cool is it that the first African American president of the United States may well be joining a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else?” asked Ronald Halber... .

    Why is it "cool?" Oh, wait a minute...almost forgot: it's the old black-Jewish "We're in this together because we're both victims" bit.

    I mean, that's so....so Sixties.

    I forgot about that. Now I am reminded of Billy Crystal’s eulogy for Muhammad Ali. Which had him not only mentioning a country club, but had Billy saying his dad was a jazz cat who marched on Washington, or something. Point was, those Crystal Jews were HIP!

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I forgot about that. Now I am reminded of Billy Crystal’s eulogy for Muhammad Ali. Which had him not only mentioning a country club, but had Billy saying his dad was a jazz cat who marched on Washington, or something. Point was, those Crystal Jews were HIP!"

    At Muhammad Ali's eulogy Billy Crystal manages to refer to himself as both White and Jewish. I am sure that pissed off many iSteve readers here on The Unz who believe the 2 are mutually exclusive from each other.
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  183. SPMoore8 says:

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”: German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny. I think that was the root of the exclusion policies, I don’t think it had much of anything to do with religious confession.

    Same thing applied to other groups, Irish, Italians, in other degrees. If you weren’t “with it” (sedate, calm, patrician as per WASP, Dutch and assimilated German stereotypes) people didn’t want you around. And, BTW, the same perception applies to blacks, not only here, but in Asia as well, to this day. Again, in all of these cases the minorities were excluded and looked down upon because they were considered loud, (often drunk), predisposed to violent outbursts, lacking gentility, etc. And BTW it’s a common (or was) source of friction among Jews, as well, Eastern Jews considered “Yekes” (German Jews) stuck up and ridiculously tight, while German Jews considered Eastern Jews to be loud and obnoxious trouble makers. (Compare the two leads in “The Odd Couple” and/or “The In Laws” (1979) to get a sense of the stereotypes, or even the lead in “A Serious Man” versus the guy who takes his wife.)

    Bottom line, the US is generally a relaxed and quiet culture and the demonstrativeness of other cultures rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

    There may be some undercurrent of anti-Semitism about how “Jews run everything /Jews want to turn America into something more advantageous to themselves, etc.” type beliefs out there, historically, and now, but I don’t think they’ve ever been particularly prominent, and as for Deicide/Blood Libel stuff, hardly at all. And I don’t think either of those had anything to do with the exclusionary rules in country clubs.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”:
     
    There's an interesting scene in Gentlemen's Agreement where Gregory Peck (who's posing as a Jew) tells his Jewish secretary that he wants to open-up hiring to more Jews. The secretary (played by June Havoc) is worried that that will mean the office will start hiring the "wrong" kind of Jew.....
    , @guest
    I once read a book about the Freud's psychoanalysis mythology as being partly cooked up because of his anxiety in mixed company over embarrassing, crude, unassimilated Jews. Which was sort of a Vienna vs. Russian countryside thing. In the author's formulation, id = yid, and the idea was that Freud tried to convince gentlemanly gentiles that within each of them is an embarrassing village Jew waiting to get out. So who are they to judge?

    Which sounds ridiculous, though the book as I recall was better than I'm describing. The main point was that Freud definitely looked down on his co-ethnics.

    , @syonredux

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”: German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny.
     
    Cf James Michener's Caravans. The narrator, a German Jewish foreign service guy named Mark Miller, notes that he got his job because, post-WW2, the State Department was under pressure to start hiring more Jews.So, to avoid having "socially unacceptable" Jews thrust upon them, they went out looking for "socially acceptable," clubbable Jews like himself.
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  184. guest says:
    @Bleuteaux
    Assuming all of the country club discrimination stories are true, can we step back for a moment and realize the astonishing lack of self awareness required to complain about access to a country club?

    Jews ain’t blacks. They’re not fighting to sit at lunch counters. They started with “Let me into Harvard or else!” and have only set their sights higher since.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    How much of the movement of blacks to sit at the counters of white businesses was impelled by jewish ethnic activism?
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  185. @Kyle McKenna

    “It’s a very exclusive, high-end club,” a source said.
     

    Yes, of course. Very exclusive, don't you know. At this point, are there any 'exclusive' clubs that aren't jewish? Outside of college, I mean. In college everyone except whites are allowed their own clubs. Safe-Zones, Dorms, Publications, etc etc.

    “a country club originally established because Jews couldn’t get in anywhere else”
     
    So they keep telling us, only (as Steve has documented) it's not quite accurate. But then, accuracy isn't quite the goal, is it.

    There are quite a lot of clubs which are not in the least Jewish, country clubs particularly.
    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
    However the situation is quite a bit different in New York City, where just about everything is run by them nowadays.
    An illustrative story concerns a club founded there by my great-great-grandfather (among some forty others) in 1846. I mentioned this fact to a native of the city, a Harvard man “of the Jewish faith”, who reacted with shocked surprise: “But I thought that the C – was a Jewish club!”
    “Typical!” I couldn’t help replying, and he was not best pleased.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Century was among the last to admit women (in 1989) and that only because of a court order. I always thought the Harmonie was the (German) Jewish club.
    , @Kyle McKenna

    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
     
    That's incredibly hard to believe. Any substantiation for it? I spend a lot of time in PB and there are many Jews everywhere and FWIW most are obscenely wealthy. Not that I'm equating money with social status, mind you.

    Which two clubs do you consider the most prestigious? I'm not one of the social elite so more of my time has been spent on the Golf Links. When I was a kid, we'd visit my grandparents' friends in Carmel and if I thought there was an experience available today like what we knew then, I'd sign up forthwith.

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  186. guest says:
    @FKA Max
    Addendum:

    Andy Samberg, who co-wrote the song ``Boombox,'' is Alfred J. Marrow's grandson:

    He is Jewish; his maternal grandfather, industrial psychologist and philanthropist Alfred J. Marrow, served as the executive chair of the American Jewish Congress. Samberg has described himself as "not particularly religious."[8][9][10] He is a third cousin of U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin, as their maternal grandfathers were first cousins.[11]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Samberg#Early_life

    Mr. Marrow was affiliated with these two country clubs:

    Old Oaks Country Club - Purchase, New York
    Whippoorwill Country Club - Armonk, New York
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_J._Marrow#Other_affiliations

    How racism came to be called a mental illness — and why that’s a problem

    Others focused less on society and more on the individual. In 1950, “The Authoritarian Personality” gained widespread attention among academic and lay audiences alike for claiming racism and authoritarianism — like that in Nazi Germany — were not only psychological but rooted in childhood experiences, particularly the presence of a strong and overbearing father.

    The book was widely criticized but was nevertheless influential. For example, in a speech before the annual conference of the National Urban League in 1958, psychologist Alfred J. Marrow argued that the psychological causes and consequences of extreme hatred were evident simply by scanning the daily newspapers. Marrow said “the problem is primarily psychological in nature, [and] we must turn for guidance and help to the behavioral scientists.”
     
    - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/06/07/how-racism-came-to-be-called-a-mental-illness-and-why-thats-a-problem/

    I’ve never needed an explanation for the “everyone who disagrees with me is crazy” phenomenon, but it is nice to have specific historical knowledge of the who/whom of psychology (i.e. who gets to call whom crazy).

    For instance I’ve always wondered who decided gays aren’t crazy anymore. I think I read about it once, but I forget.

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  187. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Founded by members of D.C.’s German-Jewish community in 1913, … it was the only club before the 1950s in the D.C.-area that would accept Jews as members...

    Steve: ....many of those incidents actually involved old money German Jewish country clubs not letting in Al Czervik-like arriviste Russian Jews. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.
     
    Real life is complicated. Did it ever occur to you that BOTH of those things could be true? The mainstream narrative is incomplete, but your version of it is equally incomplete. Current year America is all about "inclusion" and "diversity" but 1913 America was about "exclusion" and "exclusivity". Everyone (even the WASPS) were mostly "new money" (before the Civil War, America was mostly devoid of millionaires, not to mention country clubs) and felt insecure. They wanted to set up a social aristocracy with clearly defined class lines as existed in England but nothing like that existed so they had to invent it from scratch. Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution. Mount Vernon and Monticello were neglected for most of the 19th century but they were revived and turned into museums (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family - long story). WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the "wrong sort" of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc. The old Groucho Marx joke was that "any club that would have me as a member, I don't want to belong to." The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family – long story).

    But an interesting one, as it serves to illustrate the veneration that Jews felt for Jefferson prior to the post-1965 era. Monticello was acquired by Uriah Phillips Levy (the first Jewish commodore in the US Navy):

    Levy was a great admirer of Thomas Jefferson:[9]
    “I consider Thomas Jefferson to be one of the greatest men in history, the author of the Declaration and an absolute democrat. He serves as an inspiration to millions of Americans. He did much to mould our Republic in a form in which a man’s religion does not make him ineligible for political or governmental life.”

    The Monticello estate had been owned by more than one person since Jefferson’s death, and considerable property had been sold off. In 1834, Levy paid $2,700 for the 218-acre (88 ha) Monticello—which is equivalent to $64,800 in today’s dollars. Levy undertook to have the long-neglected home repaired, restored, and preserved. He also bought hundreds of additional acres that had been part of the plantation, to add to what was left.
    Levy used Monticello as a vacation home. From 1837 to 1839, his widowed mother Rachel Levy lived there until her death; she is buried along Mulberry Row, the main plantation street adjacent to the mansion.[10]

    Upon his death in 1862, Levy left Monticello to the American people to be used as an agricultural school for the orphans of Navy warrant officers. Because of the American Civil War, Congress refused to accept the donation. The Confederate government seized and sold the property; lawyers for Levy’s estate recovered the property after the war.
    Following two lawsuits by family members over Levy’s will, with 47 parties to the suit, in 1879 his nephew Jefferson Monroe Levy bought out the other heirs for $10,050, and took control of Monticello.[11] He had it repaired and restored. He sold it in 1923 to the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation, which has renovated and restored the property as a house museum.

    And you can even discern the respect in Shapiro’s anti-UVA poem “University”:

    “And the true nobleman, once a democrat,
    Sleeps on his private mountain. He was one
    Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad;
    This school he held his art and epitaph.
    But now it takes from him his name,
    Falls open like a dishonest look,
    And shows us, rotted and endowed,
    Its senile pleasure.”

    Note how the contrast involves the gulf between Jefferson (“The true nobleman,” “Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad”) and the university, which “takes from him his name.”

    Nowadays, as evidenced by Erdely’s rape hoax article, things have been inverted, and the university should be ashamed of its slave-owning founder…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    Commodore Levy was the guy who abolished Corporal Punishment in the US Navy
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  188. Jefferson says:
    @Opinionator
    Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”.

    You know, it takes a hell of a lot of gall for a jew to complain about exclusion and exclusivity, when jewishness itself--from the Torah to contemporary practices--had been all about exclusion and exclusivity.

    As if jews in 1913--and now--don't exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break.

    Everyone (even the WASPS)

    Why should we blame Anglo-Saxons for being somewhat circumspect about people who use racial slurs against them?


    Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution.

    As if jews don't obsess over their alleged ancestors. Pick the holiday.

    WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the “wrong sort” of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc.

    And jews exclude Gentiles from their identity group and social circles. The issue here is and has been for centuries that jews seek all the privileges of membership in groups while refusing to become full members of such groups and bear the concomitant burdens of membership.

    The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    That is the whole point of Judaism, actually. It is perhaps one of the most sophisticated systems of social exclusion ever devised. You have a lot of gall, my friend. A lot of gall.

    “As if jews in 1913–and now–don’t exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break.”

    The majority of Jews marry outside their tribe. So much for racist views about intermarriage. Jewish Millennials who have 2 Jewish parents are in the Minority.

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  189. guest says:
    @Flip
    I read somewhere (maybe in The Best and the Brightest) that the incoming JFK was a much better golfer than the outgoing Eisenhower. Of course he was a lot younger too and grew up a rich man's son.

    The age factor was balanced out by JFK’s crippling disease and infirmity. Maybe the amphetamines gave him that extra get up and go he needed on the course.

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  190. @Steve Sailer
    Right, the story sounds like the mostly non-Jewish fraternity in 1913 wanted Moskowitz to pledge, but he preferred to hang out with his ten other Jewish friends, but the fraternity that wanted Moskowitz didn't want this potential pledge taking over their recruitment process. So he turned down the inclusive fraternity and founded a Jewish fraternity because he liked hanging out with his fellow Jews more.

    That seems like a constructive response and that all parties behaved honorably. But it's a little annoying that the history gets retconned into Jews once being the wholly passive victims of anti-Semitism, rather than Jewish ethnocentrism being the most energetic force in the events.

    Agree. Yours is a more nuanced and better written assessment than my own.

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  191. syonredux says:
    @SPMoore8
    People should go back and watch "Gentleman's Agreement" or even the relatively recent (1994) "Quiz Show": German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny. I think that was the root of the exclusion policies, I don't think it had much of anything to do with religious confession.

    Same thing applied to other groups, Irish, Italians, in other degrees. If you weren't "with it" (sedate, calm, patrician as per WASP, Dutch and assimilated German stereotypes) people didn't want you around. And, BTW, the same perception applies to blacks, not only here, but in Asia as well, to this day. Again, in all of these cases the minorities were excluded and looked down upon because they were considered loud, (often drunk), predisposed to violent outbursts, lacking gentility, etc. And BTW it's a common (or was) source of friction among Jews, as well, Eastern Jews considered "Yekes" (German Jews) stuck up and ridiculously tight, while German Jews considered Eastern Jews to be loud and obnoxious trouble makers. (Compare the two leads in "The Odd Couple" and/or "The In Laws" (1979) to get a sense of the stereotypes, or even the lead in "A Serious Man" versus the guy who takes his wife.)

    Bottom line, the US is generally a relaxed and quiet culture and the demonstrativeness of other cultures rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

    There may be some undercurrent of anti-Semitism about how "Jews run everything /Jews want to turn America into something more advantageous to themselves, etc." type beliefs out there, historically, and now, but I don't think they've ever been particularly prominent, and as for Deicide/Blood Libel stuff, hardly at all. And I don't think either of those had anything to do with the exclusionary rules in country clubs.

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”:

    There’s an interesting scene in Gentlemen’s Agreement where Gregory Peck (who’s posing as a Jew) tells his Jewish secretary that he wants to open-up hiring to more Jews. The secretary (played by June Havoc) is worried that that will mean the office will start hiring the “wrong” kind of Jew…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    That's exactly the scene I was thinking of, and she says, to be explicit, "we don't want the wrong kind of Jews coming in here and acting all k*key."
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  192. Luke Ford says: • Website

    Who wants to study the Torah’s inclusive message of love with me? Calling all shiksas.

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  193. @Steve Sailer
    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don't have to schedule your time to play golf. You just show up when you feel like it and they match you up with a few other members into a foursome and off you go.

    Of course, that requires the number of members be kept way below capacity. I don't know about other states, but California has a law privileging golf courses so their property taxes don't get raised to the "highest and best use" of the land. Thus, for example, L.A. Country Club on Wilshire Blvd. between Beverly Hills and Westwood (probably the most valuable real estate in the country devoted to golf), has a modest property tax bill so the members don't need to admit more members.

    The theory is that everybody benefits from the benefits of having a greenbelt. On the other hand, lots of private clubs like LACC are largely surrounded by opaque hedges. I've barely seen any of the famous North Course in my life. I'll have to go to the Walker Cup to finally see it.

    Tell you what Steve. When I am next in Holmby I’ll try to persuade my hosts to invite you to lunch there.

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  194. Jefferson says:
    @guest
    I forgot about that. Now I am reminded of Billy Crystal's eulogy for Muhammad Ali. Which had him not only mentioning a country club, but had Billy saying his dad was a jazz cat who marched on Washington, or something. Point was, those Crystal Jews were HIP!

    “I forgot about that. Now I am reminded of Billy Crystal’s eulogy for Muhammad Ali. Which had him not only mentioning a country club, but had Billy saying his dad was a jazz cat who marched on Washington, or something. Point was, those Crystal Jews were HIP!”

    At Muhammad Ali’s eulogy Billy Crystal manages to refer to himself as both White and Jewish. I am sure that pissed off many iSteve readers here on The Unz who believe the 2 are mutually exclusive from each other.

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  195. guest says:
    @Jefferson
    "For my part, I think that they should have cast a a very light-skinned Black woman. It would have better captured MJ’s “transgendered” aspect."

    So Mariah Carey should have been cast to play Michael Jackson.

    Mariah looks too much like an actual woman, as opposed to Jackson’s disturbing androgeny. A 60 year-old, white model-type could do it.

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  196. @guest
    Jews ain't blacks. They're not fighting to sit at lunch counters. They started with "Let me into Harvard or else!" and have only set their sights higher since.

    How much of the movement of blacks to sit at the counters of white businesses was impelled by jewish ethnic activism?

    Read More
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  197. guest says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Right, the story sounds like the mostly non-Jewish fraternity in 1913 wanted Moskowitz to pledge, but he preferred to hang out with his ten other Jewish friends, but the fraternity that wanted Moskowitz didn't want this potential pledge taking over their recruitment process. So he turned down the inclusive fraternity and founded a Jewish fraternity because he liked hanging out with his fellow Jews more.

    That seems like a constructive response and that all parties behaved honorably. But it's a little annoying that the history gets retconned into Jews once being the wholly passive victims of anti-Semitism, rather than Jewish ethnocentrism being the most energetic force in the events.

    I was just reading Philip Roth’s Indignation, wherein the main character is a studious, standoffish, Jewish kid at a mostly white liberal arts college in 1950s Ohio. He spends a lot of time resenting the frat boys he has to serve at his job at a local watering hole. He’s asked to join the Jewish fraternity by an alpha male type he later learns has ties to his family back in New Jersey. He resents that. He resents a lot of things.

    He is also asked to pledge at a fraternity full of socially marginal figures, which he turns down. He’d rather be alone. The book is mostly about sex, as it turns out. (Big surprise.) But the Jewish fraternity resentment, much like country club resentment, is thick.

    No one treats him harshly for his Otherness, as I recall, only his personality. In the hands of another author I can imagine he’d like the jockiest, blondest, WASPyish Big Man on Campus to personally ask him to join his frat just so he could turn him down. But here I get the honest feeling he just wants not to be bothered.

    Still, there is the particular way in which he’s bothered that speaks to his limitations as racially resentful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It's not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there's simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.
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  198. SPMoore8 says:
    @syonredux

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”:
     
    There's an interesting scene in Gentlemen's Agreement where Gregory Peck (who's posing as a Jew) tells his Jewish secretary that he wants to open-up hiring to more Jews. The secretary (played by June Havoc) is worried that that will mean the office will start hiring the "wrong" kind of Jew.....

    That’s exactly the scene I was thinking of, and she says, to be explicit, “we don’t want the wrong kind of Jews coming in here and acting all k*key.”

    Read More
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  199. guest says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Reservation Indians often have major drinking problems.

    I live next to a reservation that got a casino while I was in High School. The Souix that I went to school with dropped out and went from wannabe gangbangers to rich wannabe gangbangers with better parties.

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  200. @guest
    I was just reading Philip Roth's Indignation, wherein the main character is a studious, standoffish, Jewish kid at a mostly white liberal arts college in 1950s Ohio. He spends a lot of time resenting the frat boys he has to serve at his job at a local watering hole. He's asked to join the Jewish fraternity by an alpha male type he later learns has ties to his family back in New Jersey. He resents that. He resents a lot of things.

    He is also asked to pledge at a fraternity full of socially marginal figures, which he turns down. He'd rather be alone. The book is mostly about sex, as it turns out. (Big surprise.) But the Jewish fraternity resentment, much like country club resentment, is thick.

    No one treats him harshly for his Otherness, as I recall, only his personality. In the hands of another author I can imagine he'd like the jockiest, blondest, WASPyish Big Man on Campus to personally ask him to join his frat just so he could turn him down. But here I get the honest feeling he just wants not to be bothered.

    Still, there is the particular way in which he's bothered that speaks to his limitations as racially resentful.

    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It’s not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there’s simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It’s not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there’s simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.
     
    After Roth published Goodbye, Columbus, he took a lot of heat from the Jewish community:

    The book was a critical success for Roth and won the 1960 U.S. National Book Award for Fiction[1] That earned his name as an up-and-coming young writer. The book was not without controversy, as people within the Jewish community took issue with Roth's less than flattering portrayal of some characters.[2] The short story Defender of the Faith, about a Jewish sergeant who is exploited by three shirking, coreligionist draftees, drew particular ire. When Roth in 1962 appeared on a panel alongside the distinguished black novelist Ralph Ellison to discuss minority representation in literature, the questions directed at him became denunciations.[3] Many accused Roth of being a self-hating Jew, a label that stuck with him for years.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye,_Columbus
    , @Luke Ford
    Mr. Sailer: My tradition teaches a message of radical inclusion and love. Will you sit down and learn Torah with me, and learn love?
    , @Desiderius

    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness.
     
    That was the Apostle Paul's theory. The book of Romans covers it pretty well. He was hoping the gentiles would eventually bring them around.
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  201. BB753 says:
    @attilathehen
    The Jewish clubs will want Obama. He has 2 daughters and they will want their sons to marry them.

    Who would possibly want Michelle Obama as a mother-in-law for their own sons? It must be hell.

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    It's a step up for her daughters, and the Jews will think they have a link to the USA. The USA is a WASP country though so Obama will be seen as a strange aberration.
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  202. guest says:
    @SPMoore8
    People should go back and watch "Gentleman's Agreement" or even the relatively recent (1994) "Quiz Show": German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny. I think that was the root of the exclusion policies, I don't think it had much of anything to do with religious confession.

    Same thing applied to other groups, Irish, Italians, in other degrees. If you weren't "with it" (sedate, calm, patrician as per WASP, Dutch and assimilated German stereotypes) people didn't want you around. And, BTW, the same perception applies to blacks, not only here, but in Asia as well, to this day. Again, in all of these cases the minorities were excluded and looked down upon because they were considered loud, (often drunk), predisposed to violent outbursts, lacking gentility, etc. And BTW it's a common (or was) source of friction among Jews, as well, Eastern Jews considered "Yekes" (German Jews) stuck up and ridiculously tight, while German Jews considered Eastern Jews to be loud and obnoxious trouble makers. (Compare the two leads in "The Odd Couple" and/or "The In Laws" (1979) to get a sense of the stereotypes, or even the lead in "A Serious Man" versus the guy who takes his wife.)

    Bottom line, the US is generally a relaxed and quiet culture and the demonstrativeness of other cultures rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

    There may be some undercurrent of anti-Semitism about how "Jews run everything /Jews want to turn America into something more advantageous to themselves, etc." type beliefs out there, historically, and now, but I don't think they've ever been particularly prominent, and as for Deicide/Blood Libel stuff, hardly at all. And I don't think either of those had anything to do with the exclusionary rules in country clubs.

    I once read a book about the Freud’s psychoanalysis mythology as being partly cooked up because of his anxiety in mixed company over embarrassing, crude, unassimilated Jews. Which was sort of a Vienna vs. Russian countryside thing. In the author’s formulation, id = yid, and the idea was that Freud tried to convince gentlemanly gentiles that within each of them is an embarrassing village Jew waiting to get out. So who are they to judge?

    Which sounds ridiculous, though the book as I recall was better than I’m describing. The main point was that Freud definitely looked down on his co-ethnics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The Ordeal of Civility" by John Murray Cuddihy

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/1454645?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

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  203. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It's not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there's simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.

    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It’s not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there’s simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.

    After Roth published Goodbye, Columbus, he took a lot of heat from the Jewish community:

    The book was a critical success for Roth and won the 1960 U.S. National Book Award for Fiction[1] That earned his name as an up-and-coming young writer. The book was not without controversy, as people within the Jewish community took issue with Roth’s less than flattering portrayal of some characters.[2] The short story Defender of the Faith, about a Jewish sergeant who is exploited by three shirking, coreligionist draftees, drew particular ire. When Roth in 1962 appeared on a panel alongside the distinguished black novelist Ralph Ellison to discuss minority representation in literature, the questions directed at him became denunciations.[3] Many accused Roth of being a self-hating Jew, a label that stuck with him for years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye,_Columbus

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I think "Defender of the Faith" was about a kid who, by threatening to jump out of a window at Hebrew school, got a rabbi to agree that the Christian doctrine of the Virgin Birth was possible. I do vaguely remember the story whose protagonist was Sergeant Nathan Marx (...like Groucho and Harpo and Chico and Karl, he was one of them...) but I forget the title.
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  204. Forbes says:
    @Jack D
    You're not reading very carefully. NO Jews were accepted at other DC clubs before the '50s but that doesn't tell you anything about when ALL (otherwise suitable) Jews were accepted at ALL DC clubs. Maybe at some point in the '50s there were one or two clubs that started letting in the most blue chip German Jews such as Eugene Meyer (owner of the Wash Po) . I'm guessing that the last of the WASP bastions did not let in even a single token Jew at least until the '70s and that there are STILL clubs that are not exactly rolling in Jews.

    There is a sort of an alt-right mythology that discrimination in America (if it ever even existed at all and is not 100% retconned) belongs to a dim distant past beyond all living memory so that whoever brings it up is just picking at old scabs that should have been healed over by now. The reality is not that simple. When the Supreme Court made its Brown ruling or when the Civil Rights Act was passed, 200 years of racial discrimination did not disappear in one day. There were rear guard action that were fought for decades. The SJW view that that Klan is THIS close from taking power in America is false but the idea that discrimination is beyond all living memory is equally false.

    I dunno. They’re private clubs for a reason. You don’t like the idea–don’t join. Last I checked the first amendment right to assembly is understood to mean a right to association with whom one chooses. They’re social membership clubs, after all. The Harvard Club wouldn’t accept me as a member–why is their private right of association (exclusion, discrimination) any different than any other private club?

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  205. @guest
    I once read a book about the Freud's psychoanalysis mythology as being partly cooked up because of his anxiety in mixed company over embarrassing, crude, unassimilated Jews. Which was sort of a Vienna vs. Russian countryside thing. In the author's formulation, id = yid, and the idea was that Freud tried to convince gentlemanly gentiles that within each of them is an embarrassing village Jew waiting to get out. So who are they to judge?

    Which sounds ridiculous, though the book as I recall was better than I'm describing. The main point was that Freud definitely looked down on his co-ethnics.

    “The Ordeal of Civility” by John Murray Cuddihy

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/1454645?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

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  206. Forbes says:
    @Steve Sailer
    What kind of security do past presidents get? Current Presidents get ridiculous amounts of security, involving shutting down much of the course. I recall one year Bill Clinton was in NYC for Labor Day weekend and he wanted to play golf on Labor Day but no country club his staff called would let the Secret Service throw the members off the course on the last big golf day of the year, so he went to the US Open tennis tournament instead.

    I'd find it a drag to have that kind of security. But not everybody feels like that. I once was walking down the street in DC and a 15 car motorcade roars by. In the one of the limos, I could see the large head of VP Cheney on his way to the White House. He looked like he felt going everywhere in a giant motorcade was appropriate and fitting for his station in life.

    I played behind President Ford and his two sons in 2002 in Colorado. Actually, President Ford just rode in a cart for 9 holes–it was a hot July 4 weekend. IIRC, Ford had two Secret Service agents with him. The starter informed us before the round, advising us to stay well back–no fuss.

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  207. Svigor says:

    London would be fine. San Francisco would get him a reprimand.

    Tel Aviv.

    Has anybody here on The Unz ever had your grass cut by an African American?

    You live west of the Mississippi, right? The overwhelming majority of native-born Blacks live east of the Mississippi. I see Blacks working for lawn maintenance crews every summer. There are more Whites and Mexicans, but I always see Blacks, too.

    I believe Steve that the Our Crowd Jews may have established country clubs like Woodmont to prevent defection of their highest achievers to the Christian gentile masses, with whom they comfortably mingled — perhaps too comfortably.

    Given the gobsmacking number of Jews who carry recessive genes for “Jewish diseases,” they should probably rethink the resistance to assimilation thing. That Jewish guy who wrote that book about the wonders of miscegenation should have written his book for and about Jews.

    The majority of Jews marry outside their tribe. So much for racist views about intermarriage. Jewish Millennials who have 2 Jewish parents are in the Minority.

    Pretty much none marry blacks, though, so their racist views about marrying blacks seem to be alive and well.

    P.S., there’s a lot of BS stats floating around about Jewish “intermarriage.” Hell, even the term “intermarriage” takes the racism to a whole new level; they see marrying “whites” as “marrying out.” Their level of “intermarriage” is lower than that of any other White group (Whites don’t think about how many French marry Irish, etc., don’t record the numbers, would look at you funny if you made a thing out of it), so obviously, they’re more “racist” in this way than any other Whites. You know, the Whites Jews are always accusing of racism.

    ‘Course, I’ve explained this to you several times now, and it never seems to penetrate that thick skull of yours…

    At Muhammad Ali’s eulogy Billy Crystal manages to refer to himself as both White and Jewish. I am sure that pissed off many iSteve readers here on The Unz who believe the 2 are mutually exclusive from each other.

    They’re outnumbered by the Jews believe that. I can think of three instances in printed in mass media. I can’t think of any non-Jews who were.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Good post, top to bottom.
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  208. @Busby
    If they waive the 80k fee, is that taxable income?

    Within 3 years, Obama will be a member of Augusta National.

    Busby, Obama would drool to play Augusta, but remember he’s too PC to join a club that denied membership to women.

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  209. @Opinionator
    Current year America is all about “inclusion” and “diversity” but 1913 America was about “exclusion” and “exclusivity”.

    You know, it takes a hell of a lot of gall for a jew to complain about exclusion and exclusivity, when jewishness itself--from the Torah to contemporary practices--had been all about exclusion and exclusivity.

    As if jews in 1913--and now--don't exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break.

    Everyone (even the WASPS)

    Why should we blame Anglo-Saxons for being somewhat circumspect about people who use racial slurs against them?


    Suddenly people got interested in whether their ancestors had come on the Mayflower or fought in the revolution.

    As if jews don't obsess over their alleged ancestors. Pick the holiday.

    WASP clubs excluded Jews (and not only Jews but Catholics and the “wrong sort” of Protestants, etc.) AND German Jewish clubs excluded Russian Jews, etc.

    And jews exclude Gentiles from their identity group and social circles. The issue here is and has been for centuries that jews seek all the privileges of membership in groups while refusing to become full members of such groups and bear the concomitant burdens of membership.

    The whole POINT of having a club was excluding as many people as possible (any 4th grader could tell you that).

    That is the whole point of Judaism, actually. It is perhaps one of the most sophisticated systems of social exclusion ever devised. You have a lot of gall, my friend. A lot of gall.

    Opi, Jews need WASP, because someone has to pay retail.

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  210. A question about country clubs, blacks, and Los Angeles for you Steve:

    The Fox Hills Country Club in Culver City was close to the most affluent black neighborhoods in the country and was literally right next door to the wealthiest black neighborhood in America, Ladera Heights. Said country club no longer exists, but did it have a large black membership before it closed? What is on that land now?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Fox Hills CC shut down around 1960 and some of the land may have become the Fox Hills Mall. Here's an authoritative article on lost Los Angeles golf courses:

    http://articles.latimes.com/2003/feb/20/sports/sp-lostcourses20

    Southern California lost a lot of golf courses due to overbuilding before the Depression and then the exigencies of WWII: It's December 8, 1941 and you're looking around for some big expanses of land to build military facilities and golf courses that haven't had much business since the Stock Market Crash of 1929 are obvious choices.

    For example, the Ojai Country Club got turned into some sort of military training facility, and then the golf course was rebuilt after the war. But the most famous hole by George Thomas, the spectacular par 3 sixth was forgotten. Decades later, Ben Crenshaw visited and asked the staff what had happened to the 6th hole depicted in Thomas's book. They gave him blank looks. Crenshaw went looking for this hole and he found its remnants out in the brush. It has since been rebuilt:

    http://res.gdol.com/ap/p.php?a=wi&p=45829

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  211. Karl says:
    @syonredux

    (Monticello was owned for most of the 19th century by a Jewish family – long story).
     
    But an interesting one, as it serves to illustrate the veneration that Jews felt for Jefferson prior to the post-1965 era. Monticello was acquired by Uriah Phillips Levy (the first Jewish commodore in the US Navy):

    Levy was a great admirer of Thomas Jefferson:[9]
    "I consider Thomas Jefferson to be one of the greatest men in history, the author of the Declaration and an absolute democrat. He serves as an inspiration to millions of Americans. He did much to mould our Republic in a form in which a man's religion does not make him ineligible for political or governmental life."

    The Monticello estate had been owned by more than one person since Jefferson's death, and considerable property had been sold off. In 1834, Levy paid $2,700 for the 218-acre (88 ha) Monticello—which is equivalent to $64,800 in today's dollars. Levy undertook to have the long-neglected home repaired, restored, and preserved. He also bought hundreds of additional acres that had been part of the plantation, to add to what was left.
    Levy used Monticello as a vacation home. From 1837 to 1839, his widowed mother Rachel Levy lived there until her death; she is buried along Mulberry Row, the main plantation street adjacent to the mansion.[10]

     


    Upon his death in 1862, Levy left Monticello to the American people to be used as an agricultural school for the orphans of Navy warrant officers. Because of the American Civil War, Congress refused to accept the donation. The Confederate government seized and sold the property; lawyers for Levy's estate recovered the property after the war.
    Following two lawsuits by family members over Levy's will, with 47 parties to the suit, in 1879 his nephew Jefferson Monroe Levy bought out the other heirs for $10,050, and took control of Monticello.[11] He had it repaired and restored. He sold it in 1923 to the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation, which has renovated and restored the property as a house museum.
     
    And you can even discern the respect in Shapiro's anti-UVA poem "University":



    "And the true nobleman, once a democrat,
    Sleeps on his private mountain. He was one
    Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad;
    This school he held his art and epitaph.
    But now it takes from him his name,
    Falls open like a dishonest look,
    And shows us, rotted and endowed,
    Its senile pleasure."

    Note how the contrast involves the gulf between Jefferson ("The true nobleman," "Whose thought was shapely and whose dream was broad") and the university, which "takes from him his name."


    Nowadays, as evidenced by Erdely's rape hoax article, things have been inverted, and the university should be ashamed of its slave-owning founder...

    Commodore Levy was the guy who abolished Corporal Punishment in the US Navy

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  212. @fish
    Arguing facts not in evidence.

    I think the properly-worded objection here is “no foundation” or “assuming facts not in evidence,” but sustained, anyway.

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  213. Forbes says:
    @Bleuteaux
    Assuming all of the country club discrimination stories are true, can we step back for a moment and realize the astonishing lack of self awareness required to complain about access to a country club?

    Exactly.

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  214. Hodag says:
    @pyrrhus
    Jackson Park? I played there a number of times during the '70s and '80s, and it had many black players. But I can't imagine any way of turning it into a championship course. Furthermore, it's in a rather dangerous area....

    They are combining Jackson Park with South Shore across the street. Tiger Woods is the name architect.

    http://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/report-tiger-woods-to-be-lead-designer-on-chicagos-jackson-park-golf-project/

    Tiger will not actually design it but getting a famous golfer as a name architect lends prestige.

    Jack Nicholas has designed more than a few courses, most famously The Memorial in his hometown in Ohio. Ben Crenshaw, as the junior partner of Coore and Crenshaw, is part of the leading golf architects in the world right now. They will be remembered for hundreds of years, like CB Macdonald, Seth Raynor, Donald Ross etc. As a golfer, I play one of their lesser designs every summer – The Warren Course at Notre Dame. Lesser design since much of the course used to be a parking lot, literally, it was a football game parking lot. The course is a barrel of monkeys, so much fun. It makes you think.

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  215. @Travis
    even WASPS find it difficult to join an exclusive Country Club without being sponsored by a current member..some Clubs require 4 sponsors, whom you have known for at least 5 years. You basically need to be asked to join, they do not accept unsolicited applications.

    at Baltusrol Gold Club you need to know eight members for at least three years to garner entry. You have be sponsored by a member just to get info about the admissions process.

    Travis, Years ago I expressed interest in joining an exclusive CC and my attorney friend had his secretary draw up an “official” membership application and mail it to me. I returned it to his office with a note saying that if my friend, the attorney, couldn’t join, then I would not join. I made up fake by-laws for the club that stated that they needed to have 10 blacks join before they would take in another attorney.

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  216. Luke Ford says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It's not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there's simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.

    Mr. Sailer: My tradition teaches a message of radical inclusion and love. Will you sit down and learn Torah with me, and learn love?

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Not enough people will get that reference. And I definitely think Spencer had a point.
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  217. @Steve Sailer
    The most prominent black insider in Washington is lawyer Vernon Jordan (e.g., he takes on tasks like finding Monica Lewinsky a job). He was president of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Club back in the 1990s, a big development in the DC exurbs that holds tournaments.

    Steve, You mean finding Monica a job after she gave Bill a job?

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  218. Forbes says:
    @Lugash
    The Deep State is losing its shit over PissGate as well. They're trying to point to nonexistent treason in the report, but even if it was there its getting buried under the other stuff.

    I think we're going to see a bunch of high level intelligence officials fleeing the country soon.

    The Deep State has declared war on the President. On the other hand, with news and satire having merged into this fake news category, lots of folks are losing their credibility. It makes Dan Rather’s attempt at “fake, but true” nearly conceivable. Lapdog media is just another form of entertainment, after all, the lapdogs were never anything more than ankle-biters…

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  219. @Hare Krishna
    A question about country clubs, blacks, and Los Angeles for you Steve:

    The Fox Hills Country Club in Culver City was close to the most affluent black neighborhoods in the country and was literally right next door to the wealthiest black neighborhood in America, Ladera Heights. Said country club no longer exists, but did it have a large black membership before it closed? What is on that land now?

    Fox Hills CC shut down around 1960 and some of the land may have become the Fox Hills Mall. Here’s an authoritative article on lost Los Angeles golf courses:

    http://articles.latimes.com/2003/feb/20/sports/sp-lostcourses20

    Southern California lost a lot of golf courses due to overbuilding before the Depression and then the exigencies of WWII: It’s December 8, 1941 and you’re looking around for some big expanses of land to build military facilities and golf courses that haven’t had much business since the Stock Market Crash of 1929 are obvious choices.

    For example, the Ojai Country Club got turned into some sort of military training facility, and then the golf course was rebuilt after the war. But the most famous hole by George Thomas, the spectacular par 3 sixth was forgotten. Decades later, Ben Crenshaw visited and asked the staff what had happened to the 6th hole depicted in Thomas’s book. They gave him blank looks. Crenshaw went looking for this hole and he found its remnants out in the brush. It has since been rebuilt:

    http://res.gdol.com/ap/p.php?a=wi&p=45829

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  220. @attilathehen
    The Jewish clubs will want Obama. He has 2 daughters and they will want their sons to marry them.

    You don’t actually know any Jewish mothers, do you? (If your comment was purely tongue-in-cheek, call it a wash.)

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    • Replies: @attilathehen
    Actually, many Jewish people and many of them marry blacks and Asians. Here's a small list:Idina Menzel (Jewish) black ex husband Taye Diggs; Andrea Mitchell (J) first husband black Gil Jackson now married Alan Greenspan;
    Rod Carew black athlete, first wife Jewish Michelle Levy; Lena Horne - J husband Lennie Hayton; Bliss Broyard black J husband Nico Israel;
    Martine/Martin Rothblatt (J) black wife Bina Aspen; magician David Blaine offspring of black Puerto Rican father/Ashkenazi mother;
    Geraldo Rivera offspring of black Puerto Rican father/Ashkenazi mother; Rita Moreno black Puerto Rican J husband Leonard Gordon;
    Sidney Lumet (J) married Lena Horne black daugher Gail; Jenny Lumet black Jewish daughter Sidney Lumet married Alex Weinstein;
    Anna Stubblefield (J) professor with black ex husband; Allen Shawn (J) black exwife Jamaica Kincaid; Rebecca Hall black actress married Jewish
    Morgan Spector; Werner Klemperer (J) black wife; Harry Belfaonte Jewish wife; Julian Bond Jewish wife Pamela Horowitz; Kamala Harris black/Asian - Jewish husband Douglas Emhoff;
    Diana Ross black first husband Robert Silberstein; Ronnie Spector black singer married Jewish Jonathan Greenfield; Mirelle Fanon black Jewish husband Bernard Mendes;
    Rula Jebreal black Muslim Jewish husband Arthur G. Altshul Jr.; Michelle Malkin, Amy Chua Asians with Jewish husbands; George Soros, Woody Allen, Mark Zuckerberg,
    Les Moonves, Jeff Greene, Oliver Stone, all Jews with Asian wives. These are famous people, the tip of the iceberg. Where I live many Jews are married to blacks and Asians
    and they are not famous. Interesting how there are no "shiksa" jokes about these blacks/Asians.
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  221. Jack D says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    There are quite a lot of clubs which are not in the least Jewish, country clubs particularly.
    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
    However the situation is quite a bit different in New York City, where just about everything is run by them nowadays.
    An illustrative story concerns a club founded there by my great-great-grandfather (among some forty others) in 1846. I mentioned this fact to a native of the city, a Harvard man "of the Jewish faith", who reacted with shocked surprise: "But I thought that the C - was a Jewish club!"
    "Typical!" I couldn't help replying, and he was not best pleased.

    The Century was among the last to admit women (in 1989) and that only because of a court order. I always thought the Harmonie was the (German) Jewish club.

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Jack, Harmonie is still very Jewish but no longer very German Jewish. The dramatic shift began around 1946-1947. UPenn sociologist Digby Baltzell described Harmonie's change (and the simultaneous change to the similar German Jewish Standard Club in Chicago) in one of his books decades ago.

    In both cases, the German Jewish clubs admitted lots of newly rich Ostjuden and remain in great financial shape today.

    The clubs catering to eastern European Jews all went into terminal decline thereafter, however. It was too embarrassing to belong to an obviously second-rate club.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    You're missing my point it seems. The Century was in no way a Jewish club historically, but over time came to be seen as such by at least one New York Jew of the late 20th century.
    The process is a familiar one: exclusion, inclusion, takeover.
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  222. Hodag says:
    @Steve Sailer
    What I heard from a member of a country club that turned down Michael Jordan around 1990 was that he was welcome to play there anytime -- just show up and he'd be put into a foursome with members. But the members weren't crazy about the idea of Jordan as a member being able to invite his own friends, who tended to be professional gambler lowlifes and the like.

    Michael Jordan eventually joined a brand new club in the Chicago suburbs where anybody with money could join.

    By the way, speaking about body guards and security, Michael Jordan employs his old teammate Charles Oakley, a 6'10" power forward, as his traveling companion, card-playing partner, and bodyguard, just in case some drunk wants to boast that he punched Michael Jordan. No drunk wants to recount that he got whaled on by Charles Oakley before he could even land a finger on Jordan.

    As you said, Jordan was famously blackballed at Butler leading to an exodus of a few members, most famous of the lot Mike Kaiser, the dude that owns Bandon and many other golf properties.

    However Jordan did join Merit Club in Libertyville (the upstart I think you are talking about), Medinah and many others. He may have violated the fourteen club limit. Also, most clubs have a second club rate, with a much reduced downstroke. Clubs with national membership have around a 5 k downstroke, minimal dues and pay greens fees.

    Jordan is supposedly building a golf course in Hobe Sound, Florida. Many years ago I saw the site, dead flat but built on sand.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    The story I heard was from the member of a well-known North Shore club (I forget which).

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  223. Erik L says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Erik, I think it's more about associating with your own brethren than racism. I grew up in Buffalo and there were clubs and associations founded by and used exclusively by every ethnic and religious group you can think of, Jews, Greeks, Poles, Italians, Serbians, Lebanese etc.

    I agree a bit but of course the definition of racism changes and by one of those definitions supported by my uncle and his ilk, this was certainly racist.

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  224. @Gary in Gramercy
    You don't actually know any Jewish mothers, do you? (If your comment was purely tongue-in-cheek, call it a wash.)

    Actually, many Jewish people and many of them marry blacks and Asians. Here’s a small list:Idina Menzel (Jewish) black ex husband Taye Diggs; Andrea Mitchell (J) first husband black Gil Jackson now married Alan Greenspan;
    Rod Carew black athlete, first wife Jewish Michelle Levy; Lena Horne – J husband Lennie Hayton; Bliss Broyard black J husband Nico Israel;
    Martine/Martin Rothblatt (J) black wife Bina Aspen; magician David Blaine offspring of black Puerto Rican father/Ashkenazi mother;
    Geraldo Rivera offspring of black Puerto Rican father/Ashkenazi mother; Rita Moreno black Puerto Rican J husband Leonard Gordon;
    Sidney Lumet (J) married Lena Horne black daugher Gail; Jenny Lumet black Jewish daughter Sidney Lumet married Alex Weinstein;
    Anna Stubblefield (J) professor with black ex husband; Allen Shawn (J) black exwife Jamaica Kincaid; Rebecca Hall black actress married Jewish
    Morgan Spector; Werner Klemperer (J) black wife; Harry Belfaonte Jewish wife; Julian Bond Jewish wife Pamela Horowitz; Kamala Harris black/Asian – Jewish husband Douglas Emhoff;
    Diana Ross black first husband Robert Silberstein; Ronnie Spector black singer married Jewish Jonathan Greenfield; Mirelle Fanon black Jewish husband Bernard Mendes;
    Rula Jebreal black Muslim Jewish husband Arthur G. Altshul Jr.; Michelle Malkin, Amy Chua Asians with Jewish husbands; George Soros, Woody Allen, Mark Zuckerberg,
    Les Moonves, Jeff Greene, Oliver Stone, all Jews with Asian wives. These are famous people, the tip of the iceberg. Where I live many Jews are married to blacks and Asians
    and they are not famous. Interesting how there are no “shiksa” jokes about these blacks/Asians.

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    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    That Jews sometimes marry not only out of the faith, but out of the race, isn't the point. (Moreover, because of matrilineal descent, there are obvious differences between a Jewish man marrying a non-Jewish woman -- children of that union will not be Jewish unless the woman converts, a la Ivanka Trump -- and a Jewish woman marrying a non-Jewish man.)

    You said, with apparent seriousness, that Jewish country clubs would welcome the President-Eject as a member, and that their members would want the Obama daughters to marry their sons. Anyone who actually knows a Jewish mother or two wouldn't believe this for a second. Not only do prospective grandparents of any race or faith want grandchildren who look like them, most Jewish mothers -- even political liberals with impeccable civil rights credentials -- would be dismayed if their sons were to marry black women. (Even Presidential daughters: another commenter astutely noted that no mother would want her son's mother-in-law to be Michelle Obama.)

    Your reference to Jews marrying Asians is a red herring: Asians and blacks are not interchangeable in any respect, and your tendency to conflate them suggests that you missed my point here. Indeed, Asians are another matter entirely: they're mostly intelligent, industrious and, if not terribly creative, they're also not obviously dysfunctional in every respect. Since parents want their kids to be smart enough to get into their alma maters without having to give the school a seven-figure sum first, a child born to a Jewish father and Chinese-American mother is already halfway ready for its SAT.

    This post (about the possibility of Obama being rejected by predominantly Jewish country clubs in suburban D.C.) has to be the most iSteve-ish story of 2017 so far. The only thing that could make it even better is if the golf clubs preparing to blackball the first black president were...in Southern California, with lots of rich Hollywood Jewish liberals citing "security concerns" about having an ex-President as a member. The kind of places where Larry David might actually be a member in real life (when he's not in his "schooner down at the marina").
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  225. @BB753
    Who would possibly want Michelle Obama as a mother-in-law for their own sons? It must be hell.

    It’s a step up for her daughters, and the Jews will think they have a link to the USA. The USA is a WASP country though so Obama will be seen as a strange aberration.

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  226. Jack D says:
    @Desiderius
    I understood it to be in the 1850s as part of the fallout from 1848.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

    The LATE 1840s.

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  227. Karl says:
    @Luke Ford
    By contrast, Judaism and Jews never discriminate against anyone. Who could read the Torah and the Talmud and not come away with their message of love and inclusion? Yes, Jewish law makes no allowance for non-Jewish citizenship in a Torah state, and yes, everything Meir Kahane advocated for Israel was pure Torah, but hey, how about that Kim Kardashian?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Kahane#Ideology

    Kahane argued that there was a glory in Jewish destiny, which came through the observance of the Torah. He also noted that, "Democracy and Judaism are not the same thing."[63] Kahane also stressed that a Jewish state and Western democracy were incompatible, since Western democracy is religion-blind, and a Jewish state is religion-oriented by its very name. He also warned of the danger of non-Jewish citizens becoming a majority and voting against the Jewish character of the state: "The question is as follows: if the Arabs settle among us and make enough children to become a majority, will Israel continue to be a Jewish state? Do we have to accept that the Arab majority will decide?"[64] "Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that's cut and dried: there's no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins."

     

    143. Luke Ford > Yes, Jewish law makes no allowance for non-Jewish citizenship in a Torah state

    I am no fan of halachic law, but it actually does discuss that subject at length (“Noahide Laws”) , because non-Jews have always and i mean ALWAYS, lived in Eretz Israel. Kings of Israel gave tax money to non-YHWH temples. We know that’s true because the bible and the Talmud are full of complaints about it. The current government of Israel does it, too. The municipality of Jerusalem gives away free Christmas trees.

    The Orthodox have never attempted to build a country. For the same reason that the Amish have never tried to.

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  228. @Hodag
    As you said, Jordan was famously blackballed at Butler leading to an exodus of a few members, most famous of the lot Mike Kaiser, the dude that owns Bandon and many other golf properties.

    However Jordan did join Merit Club in Libertyville (the upstart I think you are talking about), Medinah and many others. He may have violated the fourteen club limit. Also, most clubs have a second club rate, with a much reduced downstroke. Clubs with national membership have around a 5 k downstroke, minimal dues and pay greens fees.

    Jordan is supposedly building a golf course in Hobe Sound, Florida. Many years ago I saw the site, dead flat but built on sand.

    Thanks.

    The story I heard was from the member of a well-known North Shore club (I forget which).

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  229. @Jack D
    The Century was among the last to admit women (in 1989) and that only because of a court order. I always thought the Harmonie was the (German) Jewish club.

    Jack, Harmonie is still very Jewish but no longer very German Jewish. The dramatic shift began around 1946-1947. UPenn sociologist Digby Baltzell described Harmonie’s change (and the simultaneous change to the similar German Jewish Standard Club in Chicago) in one of his books decades ago.

    In both cases, the German Jewish clubs admitted lots of newly rich Ostjuden and remain in great financial shape today.

    The clubs catering to eastern European Jews all went into terminal decline thereafter, however. It was too embarrassing to belong to an obviously second-rate club.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    1. See Groucho Marx's famous quip about clubs.

    2. Hmm, I wonder what happened around then that gave exclusionary polices a bad name?

    3. As the German Jews (few in # to begin with) assimilated and in many cases were no longer even Jewish anymore (in the US thru intermarriage rather than outright conversion in most cases) the much more numerous and still (at that point) Ostjuden inherited their institutions.
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  230. Lot says:
    @Opinionator
    Okay, I now see that it is ambiguous as to whether the group of "his close Jewish friends" is equivalent to the group of 10. But the better interpretation is probably the one I gave it. The phrasing "asked if his close Jewish friends could join" suggests in the context a kind of definite article meaning because such friends are mentioned nowhere else and the phrase is sandwiched between two references to the 10. If that is not the intended meaning, perhaps better to write "asked if several of his close Jewish friends could joint" or "asked if some friends who were jewish could join."

    Is that what you are objecting to?

    As far as the timing element in what I wrote, I do not see any cause for objection.

    Is that what you are objecting to?

    Yes. The more natural implication is not that he had a list of 10 other dudes he wanted to join the preexisting frat, but a couple friends he did not want to leave out. Wouldn’t asking 10 others be pretty absurd and potentially double the normal class of new entrants?

    The longer list of frat co-founders is after he spent a while looking for the minimum number to start one.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Reading between the lines, what is implied is that Charles was sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn't mind having around (in fact asked to join their frat) but they drew the line when he mentioned a couple of his slightly Jewier looking/acting friends.
    , @Opinionator
    I would agree it is more plausible but that it is not the more "natural" textual reading.
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  231. Forbes says:
    @Lot
    There is a difference between violating a private group's freedom of association by legal force and "seeing nothing wrong" which their policies.

    In the case of country clubs, wasn't it almost entirely a matter of private pressure, not the state, ending discrimination?

    All the male-only clubs in NYC came under political/government pressure–IIRC, during the Koch mayoralty. New York Athletic Club went co-ed. There were overtures that tax-exempt status would be at-risk if clubs weren’t open to all. Most private clubs are not profit-making enterprises, so the tax-exempt status is a work-around. The Racket Club (Park Ave.) remains male-only.

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  232. Forbes says:
    @Opinionator
    Charles C. Moskowitz had just transferred to New York University’s School of Commerce from the City College of New York. Several fraternities at the School of Commerce expressed interest in him and one gave him a bid. The name of that fraternity is unknown. When Charles asked if his close Jewish friends could join as well, he was told that the invitation was for him alone.

    He had 10 "close Jewish friends" at NYU after having "just transferred" there?

    He asked that all 10 of his closest friends be extended invitations to join, too, right after he received a bid? Had they been rejected? Did they even pledge? Talk about a sense of entitlement!

    Note that the story kind of suggests that his "close friends" were rejected because they were jewish but the actual facts it gives points in another direction.

    He had 10 “close Jewish friends” at NYU after having “just transferred” there?

    It’s NYU! All his friends growing up (that went to college) went to CUNY or NYU. It’s a bit before my time but NYU has been known as NYJew for a long time.

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  233. Jack D says:
    @Lot

    Is that what you are objecting to?
     
    Yes. The more natural implication is not that he had a list of 10 other dudes he wanted to join the preexisting frat, but a couple friends he did not want to leave out. Wouldn't asking 10 others be pretty absurd and potentially double the normal class of new entrants?

    The longer list of frat co-founders is after he spent a while looking for the minimum number to start one.

    Reading between the lines, what is implied is that Charles was sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn’t mind having around (in fact asked to join their frat) but they drew the line when he mentioned a couple of his slightly Jewier looking/acting friends.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator

    Reading between the lines, what is implied is that Charles was sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn’t mind having around (in fact asked to join their frat) but they drew the line when he mentioned a couple of his slightly Jewier looking/acting friends.
     
    Hogwash. That is your own bigoted prejudice against Northern Europeans talking. Classic confirmation bias.

    You know, fraternities regularly decline to extend bids to prospective pledges, for reasons of a prospect's character or personality or because of limited space in a class. It is common for one friend to receive a bid while his friends are rejected.

    The fact that Moskowitz in fact received a bid itself puts in peril your "evil WASP" narrative. So you've had to invent out of whole cloth this concept of the "sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn’t mind having around." Northern Europeans don't have this notion of assimilated versus unassimilated jews. If in fact the fraternity had Anglo Saxon members at all, clearly they had no problem counting jews among their brothers. Perhaps there was something else about his close friend that gave people pause.

    And if NYU back then really had the large population of jews that some say it did, surely there would be other fraternities jews could have joined.

    So maybe Moskowitz just wanted to be in the same fraternity with his friends. Or maybe he was highly ethnocentric (taking after many of his "brethren") and wanted to be in a club that excluded Gentiles.

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  234. Jack D says:
    @PV van der Byl
    Jack, Harmonie is still very Jewish but no longer very German Jewish. The dramatic shift began around 1946-1947. UPenn sociologist Digby Baltzell described Harmonie's change (and the simultaneous change to the similar German Jewish Standard Club in Chicago) in one of his books decades ago.

    In both cases, the German Jewish clubs admitted lots of newly rich Ostjuden and remain in great financial shape today.

    The clubs catering to eastern European Jews all went into terminal decline thereafter, however. It was too embarrassing to belong to an obviously second-rate club.

    1. See Groucho Marx’s famous quip about clubs.

    2. Hmm, I wonder what happened around then that gave exclusionary polices a bad name?

    3. As the German Jews (few in # to begin with) assimilated and in many cases were no longer even Jewish anymore (in the US thru intermarriage rather than outright conversion in most cases) the much more numerous and still (at that point) Ostjuden inherited their institutions.

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  235. syonredux says:
    @SPMoore8
    People should go back and watch "Gentleman's Agreement" or even the relatively recent (1994) "Quiz Show": German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny. I think that was the root of the exclusion policies, I don't think it had much of anything to do with religious confession.

    Same thing applied to other groups, Irish, Italians, in other degrees. If you weren't "with it" (sedate, calm, patrician as per WASP, Dutch and assimilated German stereotypes) people didn't want you around. And, BTW, the same perception applies to blacks, not only here, but in Asia as well, to this day. Again, in all of these cases the minorities were excluded and looked down upon because they were considered loud, (often drunk), predisposed to violent outbursts, lacking gentility, etc. And BTW it's a common (or was) source of friction among Jews, as well, Eastern Jews considered "Yekes" (German Jews) stuck up and ridiculously tight, while German Jews considered Eastern Jews to be loud and obnoxious trouble makers. (Compare the two leads in "The Odd Couple" and/or "The In Laws" (1979) to get a sense of the stereotypes, or even the lead in "A Serious Man" versus the guy who takes his wife.)

    Bottom line, the US is generally a relaxed and quiet culture and the demonstrativeness of other cultures rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

    There may be some undercurrent of anti-Semitism about how "Jews run everything /Jews want to turn America into something more advantageous to themselves, etc." type beliefs out there, historically, and now, but I don't think they've ever been particularly prominent, and as for Deicide/Blood Libel stuff, hardly at all. And I don't think either of those had anything to do with the exclusionary rules in country clubs.

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”: German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny.

    Cf James Michener’s Caravans. The narrator, a German Jewish foreign service guy named Mark Miller, notes that he got his job because, post-WW2, the State Department was under pressure to start hiring more Jews.So, to avoid having “socially unacceptable” Jews thrust upon them, they went out looking for “socially acceptable,” clubbable Jews like himself.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Gotta love that everyone relies on fiction to document their points.
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  236. @whorefinder

    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he’s never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.
     
    You make a good point. However, Obama, as the affirmative action black , has always just been given top honors for showing up. He probably had very little shock at receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, because he just figured his own election was the capstone of humanity. Remember this guy was given the presidency of the Harvard Law Review when it was already promised to a student who'd gotten the requisite best grades--just because Obama was black and the black students made a fuss. (and then promptly became the first Law Review president in history not to write the requisite Student Note, because he was too lazy).

    But Obama likes awards; like most blacks, he associates the award with actual accomplishment. He expects to be given membership at any club he applies to, and have it happen right away, no waiting.

    Is there a rule about not joining multiple golf courses, Steve? Because otherwise Obama will try to join a bunch.

    Is there a rule about not joining multiple golf courses, Steve? Because otherwise Obama will try to join a bunch.

    If such a rule existed, do you think Obama would assume it applied to him?

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  237. @Anonymous
    "He looked liked he felt. . ." I think you're projecting.

    “He looked liked he felt. . .” I think you’re projecting.

    Yes, for all we know Cheney was sipping a hot chocolate and contemplating how his toes felt in his new woolen socks as he pursued his quixotic quest to achieve hygge.

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  238. Wilkey says:

    I guess Obama is considered anti-Semitic because “only” 2 of his 3 Supreme Court nominees were Jewish.

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  239. Hibernian says:
    @pyrrhus
    Jackson Park? I played there a number of times during the '70s and '80s, and it had many black players. But I can't imagine any way of turning it into a championship course. Furthermore, it's in a rather dangerous area....

    The area is improving but crime is increasing everywhere in Chicago.

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  240. “Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.”

    Doesn’t every story regarding American Jews misfortunes, mishaps, etc. end up that way? It’s always the white gentiles fault. Funny how they’d put up much of a fuss by not letting in Obama.

    Should Obama get passed over for membership, he could always join….a Trump Country Club.

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  241. @Steve Sailer
    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It's not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there's simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.

    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness.

    That was the Apostle Paul’s theory. The book of Romans covers it pretty well. He was hoping the gentiles would eventually bring them around.

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  242. nglaer says:
    @Flip
    I read somewhere (maybe in The Best and the Brightest) that the incoming JFK was a much better golfer than the outgoing Eisenhower. Of course he was a lot younger too and grew up a rich man's son.

    he learned the game as a kid, and was athletic enough to have a good swing. Ike learned as an adult. always makes a difference.

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  243. Hibernian says:
    @syonredux

    There is not really that much of a market for Jewish self-awareness. It’s not as if a novelist as talented as Roth is incapable of it, but there’s simply little demand these days for Roth to go very deep into these kind of patterns.
     
    After Roth published Goodbye, Columbus, he took a lot of heat from the Jewish community:

    The book was a critical success for Roth and won the 1960 U.S. National Book Award for Fiction[1] That earned his name as an up-and-coming young writer. The book was not without controversy, as people within the Jewish community took issue with Roth's less than flattering portrayal of some characters.[2] The short story Defender of the Faith, about a Jewish sergeant who is exploited by three shirking, coreligionist draftees, drew particular ire. When Roth in 1962 appeared on a panel alongside the distinguished black novelist Ralph Ellison to discuss minority representation in literature, the questions directed at him became denunciations.[3] Many accused Roth of being a self-hating Jew, a label that stuck with him for years.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye,_Columbus

    I think “Defender of the Faith” was about a kid who, by threatening to jump out of a window at Hebrew school, got a rabbi to agree that the Christian doctrine of the Virgin Birth was possible. I do vaguely remember the story whose protagonist was Sergeant Nathan Marx (…like Groucho and Harpo and Chico and Karl, he was one of them…) but I forget the title.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I think “Defender of the Faith” was about a kid who, by threatening to jump out of a window at Hebrew school, got a rabbi to agree that the Christian doctrine of the Virgin Birth was possible. I do vaguely remember the story whose protagonist was Sergeant Nathan Marx (…like Groucho and Harpo and Chico and Karl, he was one of them…) but I forget the title.
     
    "Defender of the Faith" is the one about a Jewish sergeant:

    "Defender of the Faith"
    The story—originally published in The New Yorker—deals with a Jewish American army sergeant who resists the attempted manipulation of a fellow Jew to exploit their mutual ethnicity to receive special favors. The story caused consternation among Jewish readers and religious groups, as recounted in chapter five of Roth's 1988 memoir The Facts: A Novelist's Autobiography.[7]
     
    "The Conversion of the Jews" is the one about the Jewish kid:

    "The Conversion of the Jews"
    Ozzie Freedman, a Jewish-American boy about thirteen years old, confronts his Hebrew school teacher, Rabbi Binder, with challenging questions: especially, whether it is possible that God gave the Virgin Mary a child without having intercourse. Ozzie's mother, though she loves her son dearly, is a more conventional thinker and can't understand why Ozzie courts trouble at school for posing such unorthodox queries. During an argument, she slaps him across the face. Back at school, Rabbi Binder interprets Ozzie's question about the virgin birth as impertinent, though Ozzie sincerely wishes to better understand God and his faith. When Ozzie continues to ask challenging questions, Binder too slaps him on the face, accidentally bloodying Ozzie's nose. Ozzie calls Binder a bastard and, without thinking, runs to the roof of the synagogue. Once there, Ozzie threatens to jump.
    The rabbi and pupils go out to watch Ozzie from the pavement and try to convince him not to leap. Ozzie's mother arrives. Ozzie threatens to jump unless they all bow on their knees in the Christian tradition and admit that God can make a virgin birth, and furthermore, that they believe in Jesus Christ; he then admonishes all those present that they should never "hit anyone about God". He finally ends by jumping off the roof onto a glowing yellow net held by firemen.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye,_Columbus
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  244. @Svigor

    London would be fine. San Francisco would get him a reprimand.
     
    Tel Aviv.

    Has anybody here on The Unz ever had your grass cut by an African American?
     
    You live west of the Mississippi, right? The overwhelming majority of native-born Blacks live east of the Mississippi. I see Blacks working for lawn maintenance crews every summer. There are more Whites and Mexicans, but I always see Blacks, too.

    I believe Steve that the Our Crowd Jews may have established country clubs like Woodmont to prevent defection of their highest achievers to the Christian gentile masses, with whom they comfortably mingled — perhaps too comfortably.
     
    Given the gobsmacking number of Jews who carry recessive genes for "Jewish diseases," they should probably rethink the resistance to assimilation thing. That Jewish guy who wrote that book about the wonders of miscegenation should have written his book for and about Jews.

    The majority of Jews marry outside their tribe. So much for racist views about intermarriage. Jewish Millennials who have 2 Jewish parents are in the Minority.
     
    Pretty much none marry blacks, though, so their racist views about marrying blacks seem to be alive and well.

    P.S., there's a lot of BS stats floating around about Jewish "intermarriage." Hell, even the term "intermarriage" takes the racism to a whole new level; they see marrying "whites" as "marrying out." Their level of "intermarriage" is lower than that of any other White group (Whites don't think about how many French marry Irish, etc., don't record the numbers, would look at you funny if you made a thing out of it), so obviously, they're more "racist" in this way than any other Whites. You know, the Whites Jews are always accusing of racism.

    'Course, I've explained this to you several times now, and it never seems to penetrate that thick skull of yours...

    At Muhammad Ali’s eulogy Billy Crystal manages to refer to himself as both White and Jewish. I am sure that pissed off many iSteve readers here on The Unz who believe the 2 are mutually exclusive from each other.
     
    They're outnumbered by the Jews believe that. I can think of three instances in printed in mass media. I can't think of any non-Jews who were.

    Good post, top to bottom.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Heh. That’s what she said.
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  245. syonredux says:
    @Hibernian
    I think "Defender of the Faith" was about a kid who, by threatening to jump out of a window at Hebrew school, got a rabbi to agree that the Christian doctrine of the Virgin Birth was possible. I do vaguely remember the story whose protagonist was Sergeant Nathan Marx (...like Groucho and Harpo and Chico and Karl, he was one of them...) but I forget the title.

    I think “Defender of the Faith” was about a kid who, by threatening to jump out of a window at Hebrew school, got a rabbi to agree that the Christian doctrine of the Virgin Birth was possible. I do vaguely remember the story whose protagonist was Sergeant Nathan Marx (…like Groucho and Harpo and Chico and Karl, he was one of them…) but I forget the title.

    “Defender of the Faith” is the one about a Jewish sergeant:

    “Defender of the Faith”
    The story—originally published in The New Yorker—deals with a Jewish American army sergeant who resists the attempted manipulation of a fellow Jew to exploit their mutual ethnicity to receive special favors. The story caused consternation among Jewish readers and religious groups, as recounted in chapter five of Roth’s 1988 memoir The Facts: A Novelist’s Autobiography.[7]

    “The Conversion of the Jews” is the one about the Jewish kid:

    “The Conversion of the Jews”
    Ozzie Freedman, a Jewish-American boy about thirteen years old, confronts his Hebrew school teacher, Rabbi Binder, with challenging questions: especially, whether it is possible that God gave the Virgin Mary a child without having intercourse. Ozzie’s mother, though she loves her son dearly, is a more conventional thinker and can’t understand why Ozzie courts trouble at school for posing such unorthodox queries. During an argument, she slaps him across the face. Back at school, Rabbi Binder interprets Ozzie’s question about the virgin birth as impertinent, though Ozzie sincerely wishes to better understand God and his faith. When Ozzie continues to ask challenging questions, Binder too slaps him on the face, accidentally bloodying Ozzie’s nose. Ozzie calls Binder a bastard and, without thinking, runs to the roof of the synagogue. Once there, Ozzie threatens to jump.
    The rabbi and pupils go out to watch Ozzie from the pavement and try to convince him not to leap. Ozzie’s mother arrives. Ozzie threatens to jump unless they all bow on their knees in the Christian tradition and admit that God can make a virgin birth, and furthermore, that they believe in Jesus Christ; he then admonishes all those present that they should never “hit anyone about God”. He finally ends by jumping off the roof onto a glowing yellow net held by firemen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye,_Columbus

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  246. @syonredux
    RE: New vs Old money,

    I've always loved how Howells (in The Rise of Silas Lapham) depicts the self-made man's struggles with mastering proper form:

    He [Silas Lapham] held out openly, but on his way home the next day, in a sudden panic, he cast anchor before his tailor’s door and got measured for a dress-coat. After that he began to be afflicted about his waist-coat, concerning which he had hitherto been airily indifferent. He tried to get opinion out of his family, but they were not so clear about it as they were about the frock. It ended in their buying a book of etiquette, which settled the question adversely to a white waistcoat. The author, however, after being very explicit in telling them not to eat with their knives, and above all not to pick their teeth with their forks,–a thing which he said no lady or gentleman ever did,–was still far from decided as to the kind of cravat Colonel Lapham ought to wear: shaken on other points, Lapham had begun to waver also concerning the black cravat. As to the question of gloves for the Colonel, which suddenly flashed upon him one evening, it appeared never to have entered the thoughts of the etiquette man, as Lapham called him. Other authors on the same subject were equally silent, and Irene could only remember having heard, in some vague sort of way, that gentlemen did not wear gloves so much any more.
     

    I’ve always loved how Howells (in The Rise of Silas Lapham) depicts the self-made man’s struggles with mastering proper form

    Fortunately for today’s up-and-comers, Taco shows the way.

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  247. @Jefferson
    "As if jews in 1913–and now–don’t exclude Gentiles from their own social circles and to boot hold racist views about intermarriage. Give us a break."

    The majority of Jews marry outside their tribe. So much for racist views about intermarriage. Jewish Millennials who have 2 Jewish parents are in the Minority.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    You guys always cherry-pick the worst traits of Diaspora Ashkenazis and Israelis to make your point. Jews are ethnocentric...unless they're degenerate and marrying out.

    I'm not defending the Sabrina Rubin Erdelys of the world, but the Jews marrying out in America and the Jews practicing ethnonationalism in Israel are two different bunches of Hebrews.
    , @Gabriel M
    Parenthetically, it later emerged that the rape by deception charge was the result of a plea bargain. He had, at least according to the girl, actually raped her.
    , @donut
    Yeah , yeah ,yeah "Parenthetically, it later emerged that the rape by deception charge was the result of a plea bargain. He had, at least according to the girl, actually raped her." Have you heard about the false rape charges here in the USA ? UV , Sabrina Erdly ? The Rolling Stone ? What a stooge . If it's a Jew you swallow but with a white boy you spit .
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  248. @Opinionator
    Good post, top to bottom.

    Heh. That’s what she said.

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  249. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    'Burning Bush' would have been Al Czervik's answer to Bushwood, or even better, Burning Tree: https://www.burningtreecc.org/

    *blushes* Right you are. “Burning Bush” was the joke when we were growing up …

    (the things we used to yell at games against Whitman would probably get the kids nowadays some kind of a “hate crime” rap :-) )

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  250. SFG says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    You guys always cherry-pick the worst traits of Diaspora Ashkenazis and Israelis to make your point. Jews are ethnocentric…unless they’re degenerate and marrying out.

    I’m not defending the Sabrina Rubin Erdelys of the world, but the Jews marrying out in America and the Jews practicing ethnonationalism in Israel are two different bunches of Hebrews.

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  251. SFG says:
    @Luke Ford
    Mr. Sailer: My tradition teaches a message of radical inclusion and love. Will you sit down and learn Torah with me, and learn love?

    Not enough people will get that reference. And I definitely think Spencer had a point.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    The point Spencer made is already so widely recognized, at least among us, that is virtually banal.
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  252. @Steve from Detroit
    I would love to have met the inspiration for Judge Smails.

    "Danny, I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't wanna do it; felt I owed it to them...."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA2NDf9LdDE


    How 'bout a Shasta?

    “how about a Fresca”

    is Shasta available anywhere but California?

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  253. @syonredux

    People should go back and watch “Gentleman’s Agreement” or even the relatively recent (1994) “Quiz Show”: German Jews were assimilated and were not particularly noticed for being Jewish, Eastern Jews (from Russian Empire/Poland) were stereotyped as loud, obnoxious, and whiny.
     
    Cf James Michener's Caravans. The narrator, a German Jewish foreign service guy named Mark Miller, notes that he got his job because, post-WW2, the State Department was under pressure to start hiring more Jews.So, to avoid having "socially unacceptable" Jews thrust upon them, they went out looking for "socially acceptable," clubbable Jews like himself.

    Gotta love that everyone relies on fiction to document their points.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Gotta love that everyone relies on fiction to document their points.
     
    Well, Michener's stuff was extensively researched.....and he played fair (letting the reader know when he was inventing characters and incidents, etc)
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  254. @Old Palo Altan
    There are quite a lot of clubs which are not in the least Jewish, country clubs particularly.
    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
    However the situation is quite a bit different in New York City, where just about everything is run by them nowadays.
    An illustrative story concerns a club founded there by my great-great-grandfather (among some forty others) in 1846. I mentioned this fact to a native of the city, a Harvard man "of the Jewish faith", who reacted with shocked surprise: "But I thought that the C - was a Jewish club!"
    "Typical!" I couldn't help replying, and he was not best pleased.

    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.

    That’s incredibly hard to believe. Any substantiation for it? I spend a lot of time in PB and there are many Jews everywhere and FWIW most are obscenely wealthy. Not that I’m equating money with social status, mind you.

    Which two clubs do you consider the most prestigious? I’m not one of the social elite so more of my time has been spent on the Golf Links. When I was a kid, we’d visit my grandparents’ friends in Carmel and if I thought there was an experience available today like what we knew then, I’d sign up forthwith.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Here's an article from 2004 asserting that no Jews were members at Cypress Point and San Francisco Golf Club. I have no idea how true that is/was:

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/THE-CHOSEN-FEW-S-F-s-exclusive-clubs-carry-on-2740755.php

    , @Kyle McKenna
    ETA: Reading up on Cypress & MPCC brought me to an 'official' story here http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/14/sports/shoal-creek-decision-puts-golf-on-a-new-course.html

    ...And reminded me of NYC co-ops. Talk about private clubs! Somehow Obama's AFFH regs don't reach that far. One fun tidbit in Michael Gross's 740 Park was that some of the most 'anti-semitic' co-ops on Park Ave are actually majority-jewish; they just don't want the rep of being a 'jewish co-op'. Which probably was the case once, but it's a jewish street ffs!
    , @Steve Sailer
    It's not uncommon for the US Open to go to the more Catholic club than to the super WASP one, such as to Olympic rather than its neighbor San Francisco or to Winged Foot in Westchester County, or to Olympia Fields in Chicago in 2003.

    A topic I've never seen much about was the status of Catholics in the upper reaches of the old American social system. My vague impression is that upper crust Irish Catholics were pretty much accepted: e.g., National Golf Links of America founder Charles Blair MacDonald's daughter married the son of the wealthy Irish Catholic mayor of NYC William Grace. Did F. Scott Fitzgerald get slighted much for being Irish Catholic?

    Italians and Poles probably had it harder.

    , @Old Palo Altan
    I meant of course the two clubs which I see you have already looked into.
    There may be lots of Jews these days in PB, but they will not be found at either Cypress Point or the MPCC. The rare exception (not that I know of any) only proves the rule.
    Carmel is not what it used to be, but the more private bits of Pebble Beach still are. Unfortunately you cannot simply "sign up" to enjoy the experience.
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  255. @Kyle McKenna

    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
     
    That's incredibly hard to believe. Any substantiation for it? I spend a lot of time in PB and there are many Jews everywhere and FWIW most are obscenely wealthy. Not that I'm equating money with social status, mind you.

    Which two clubs do you consider the most prestigious? I'm not one of the social elite so more of my time has been spent on the Golf Links. When I was a kid, we'd visit my grandparents' friends in Carmel and if I thought there was an experience available today like what we knew then, I'd sign up forthwith.

    Here’s an article from 2004 asserting that no Jews were members at Cypress Point and San Francisco Golf Club. I have no idea how true that is/was:

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/THE-CHOSEN-FEW-S-F-s-exclusive-clubs-carry-on-2740755.php

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    Yeah, pretty much hearsay, though it could be true. Fun enough article anyway, given the source.

    When Augusta National in Georgia was pressured, unsuccessfully, to accept women two years ago, the appropriately named Mary Anne Case, a professor at the University of Chicago Law School, couldn't think of a reason for its refusal to admit females "that doesn't involve somehow girls having cooties."
     
    Is she saying that's not a good-enough reason?

    The Pacific-Union's prohibitions have been characterized, said Merla Zellerbach, as "no women, no Democrats, no reporters."
     
    I flatly refuse to believe the part about Democrats. But I've been wrong before.

    Although I stand second to no one in my rejection of tribalism, I'd probably like to have a jewish member or two of my club, and not for window-dressing. Fact is some of them are good company.

    There, I said it.

    , @syonredux
    I rather like this part:

    It's impossible to talk about private clubs in this day and age without sounding censorious, but people have always liked having the right to choose who joins their private associations. Mills College in Oakland resisted a demand to let male students in. Many book clubs ban men because the women want to read "The Hours" and the men would want to read the new Alexander Hamilton biography. There are a number of fancy women's clubs here, such as the Town & Country (said to be the female Pacific-Union Club).
    We all like to gang together with people like us, and men seem to like it even more than women do. If there were only five men in all of North America, three of them would sneak out behind the house and start a club. The other two would not be asked to join.
     
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  256. @Kyle McKenna

    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
     
    That's incredibly hard to believe. Any substantiation for it? I spend a lot of time in PB and there are many Jews everywhere and FWIW most are obscenely wealthy. Not that I'm equating money with social status, mind you.

    Which two clubs do you consider the most prestigious? I'm not one of the social elite so more of my time has been spent on the Golf Links. When I was a kid, we'd visit my grandparents' friends in Carmel and if I thought there was an experience available today like what we knew then, I'd sign up forthwith.

    ETA: Reading up on Cypress & MPCC brought me to an ‘official’ story here http://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/14/sports/shoal-creek-decision-puts-golf-on-a-new-course.html

    …And reminded me of NYC co-ops. Talk about private clubs! Somehow Obama’s AFFH regs don’t reach that far. One fun tidbit in Michael Gross’s 740 Park was that some of the most ‘anti-semitic’ co-ops on Park Ave are actually majority-jewish; they just don’t want the rep of being a ‘jewish co-op’. Which probably was the case once, but it’s a jewish street ffs!

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  257. @Steve Sailer
    Here's an article from 2004 asserting that no Jews were members at Cypress Point and San Francisco Golf Club. I have no idea how true that is/was:

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/THE-CHOSEN-FEW-S-F-s-exclusive-clubs-carry-on-2740755.php

    Yeah, pretty much hearsay, though it could be true. Fun enough article anyway, given the source.

    When Augusta National in Georgia was pressured, unsuccessfully, to accept women two years ago, the appropriately named Mary Anne Case, a professor at the University of Chicago Law School, couldn’t think of a reason for its refusal to admit females “that doesn’t involve somehow girls having cooties.”

    Is she saying that’s not a good-enough reason?

    The Pacific-Union’s prohibitions have been characterized, said Merla Zellerbach, as “no women, no Democrats, no reporters.”

    I flatly refuse to believe the part about Democrats. But I’ve been wrong before.

    Although I stand second to no one in my rejection of tribalism, I’d probably like to have a jewish member or two of my club, and not for window-dressing. Fact is some of them are good company.

    There, I said it.

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  258. @Kyle McKenna

    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
     
    That's incredibly hard to believe. Any substantiation for it? I spend a lot of time in PB and there are many Jews everywhere and FWIW most are obscenely wealthy. Not that I'm equating money with social status, mind you.

    Which two clubs do you consider the most prestigious? I'm not one of the social elite so more of my time has been spent on the Golf Links. When I was a kid, we'd visit my grandparents' friends in Carmel and if I thought there was an experience available today like what we knew then, I'd sign up forthwith.

    It’s not uncommon for the US Open to go to the more Catholic club than to the super WASP one, such as to Olympic rather than its neighbor San Francisco or to Winged Foot in Westchester County, or to Olympia Fields in Chicago in 2003.

    A topic I’ve never seen much about was the status of Catholics in the upper reaches of the old American social system. My vague impression is that upper crust Irish Catholics were pretty much accepted: e.g., National Golf Links of America founder Charles Blair MacDonald’s daughter married the son of the wealthy Irish Catholic mayor of NYC William Grace. Did F. Scott Fitzgerald get slighted much for being Irish Catholic?

    Italians and Poles probably had it harder.

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    • Agree: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    You're forgetting the Germans, who were the first to be accepted, the Havemeyers of old New York being perhaps the pre-eminent example.
    As for the Irish, it would depend upon the city. Big in New York and Chicago and St Louis; still not really in in Boston.
    "Italians and Poles probably had it harder". They still do, I promise you, unless they were princes or counts back home.
    , @Ed
    Joseph Kennedy stopped going to Harvard reunions in large part because he felt slighted due to his religion.
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  259. @Jefferson
    "Look, I distinctly remember Dad telling me that granddad (or was it great-granddad?) had a friend who had a friend who tried to join one of those snooty WASP clubs (you know, like the one in Trading Places)"

    Speaking of Trading Places, Eddie Murphy in the 1980s always looked significantly older than his actual age. Remember in Trading Places he passes himself off as a Vietnam war veteran, even though he was born on April 3, 1961 which would make him 14 years old when The Fall Of Saigon occurred on April 30, 1975.

    Eddie Murphy is the old lady, the fat older lady (the one who comments on the smell of the room), and the younger man the old lady tries to seduce:

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  260. Who cares about country clubs. I worse rejection possible is to not be accepted by the Legion of Super heroes. Imagine a group that thinks your power is so wimpy, but has Bouncing Boy and Matter Eating Lad in their ranks. No wonder their are so many super villains in the 30th century.

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  261. syonredux says:
    @Kyle McKenna
    Gotta love that everyone relies on fiction to document their points.

    Gotta love that everyone relies on fiction to document their points.

    Well, Michener’s stuff was extensively researched…..and he played fair (letting the reader know when he was inventing characters and incidents, etc)

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    My favorite Michener fiction is his prediction that should the Electoral College (about which he wrote an antagonistic non-fiction book) ever again diverge from the holy and so-called "popular vote", Americans wouldn't accept the result and the EC would be history.

    Boy, was he ever proved wrong. Twice.

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  262. syonredux says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Here's an article from 2004 asserting that no Jews were members at Cypress Point and San Francisco Golf Club. I have no idea how true that is/was:

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/THE-CHOSEN-FEW-S-F-s-exclusive-clubs-carry-on-2740755.php

    I rather like this part:

    It’s impossible to talk about private clubs in this day and age without sounding censorious, but people have always liked having the right to choose who joins their private associations. Mills College in Oakland resisted a demand to let male students in. Many book clubs ban men because the women want to read “The Hours” and the men would want to read the new Alexander Hamilton biography. There are a number of fancy women’s clubs here, such as the Town & Country (said to be the female Pacific-Union Club).
    We all like to gang together with people like us, and men seem to like it even more than women do. If there were only five men in all of North America, three of them would sneak out behind the house and start a club. The other two would not be asked to join.

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  263. @Lot

    Is that what you are objecting to?
     
    Yes. The more natural implication is not that he had a list of 10 other dudes he wanted to join the preexisting frat, but a couple friends he did not want to leave out. Wouldn't asking 10 others be pretty absurd and potentially double the normal class of new entrants?

    The longer list of frat co-founders is after he spent a while looking for the minimum number to start one.

    I would agree it is more plausible but that it is not the more “natural” textual reading.

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  264. @guest
    Eddie Murphy is about the same age as Our Obama. I can imagine confusing him for a Vietnam vet. Then again, Trading Places wasn't exactly a realistic movie, and I think he disguises himself with glasses and a hoodie, anyway.

    Eddie Murphy is about the same age as Our Obama. I can imagine confusing him for a Vietnam vet. Then again, Trading Places wasn’t exactly a realistic movie, and I think he disguises himself with glasses and a hoodie, anyway.

    I think the gag there was that Billy Ray Valentine was pretending to be blind, so the passersby and officers shouldn’t be able to see that he was far too young to have been Agent Orange in Vietnam.

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  265. @attilathehen
    Actually, many Jewish people and many of them marry blacks and Asians. Here's a small list:Idina Menzel (Jewish) black ex husband Taye Diggs; Andrea Mitchell (J) first husband black Gil Jackson now married Alan Greenspan;
    Rod Carew black athlete, first wife Jewish Michelle Levy; Lena Horne - J husband Lennie Hayton; Bliss Broyard black J husband Nico Israel;
    Martine/Martin Rothblatt (J) black wife Bina Aspen; magician David Blaine offspring of black Puerto Rican father/Ashkenazi mother;
    Geraldo Rivera offspring of black Puerto Rican father/Ashkenazi mother; Rita Moreno black Puerto Rican J husband Leonard Gordon;
    Sidney Lumet (J) married Lena Horne black daugher Gail; Jenny Lumet black Jewish daughter Sidney Lumet married Alex Weinstein;
    Anna Stubblefield (J) professor with black ex husband; Allen Shawn (J) black exwife Jamaica Kincaid; Rebecca Hall black actress married Jewish
    Morgan Spector; Werner Klemperer (J) black wife; Harry Belfaonte Jewish wife; Julian Bond Jewish wife Pamela Horowitz; Kamala Harris black/Asian - Jewish husband Douglas Emhoff;
    Diana Ross black first husband Robert Silberstein; Ronnie Spector black singer married Jewish Jonathan Greenfield; Mirelle Fanon black Jewish husband Bernard Mendes;
    Rula Jebreal black Muslim Jewish husband Arthur G. Altshul Jr.; Michelle Malkin, Amy Chua Asians with Jewish husbands; George Soros, Woody Allen, Mark Zuckerberg,
    Les Moonves, Jeff Greene, Oliver Stone, all Jews with Asian wives. These are famous people, the tip of the iceberg. Where I live many Jews are married to blacks and Asians
    and they are not famous. Interesting how there are no "shiksa" jokes about these blacks/Asians.

    That Jews sometimes marry not only out of the faith, but out of the race, isn’t the point. (Moreover, because of matrilineal descent, there are obvious differences between a Jewish man marrying a non-Jewish woman — children of that union will not be Jewish unless the woman converts, a la Ivanka Trump — and a Jewish woman marrying a non-Jewish man.)

    You said, with apparent seriousness, that Jewish country clubs would welcome the President-Eject as a member, and that their members would want the Obama daughters to marry their sons. Anyone who actually knows a Jewish mother or two wouldn’t believe this for a second. Not only do prospective grandparents of any race or faith want grandchildren who look like them, most Jewish mothers — even political liberals with impeccable civil rights credentials — would be dismayed if their sons were to marry black women. (Even Presidential daughters: another commenter astutely noted that no mother would want her son’s mother-in-law to be Michelle Obama.)

    Your reference to Jews marrying Asians is a red herring: Asians and blacks are not interchangeable in any respect, and your tendency to conflate them suggests that you missed my point here. Indeed, Asians are another matter entirely: they’re mostly intelligent, industrious and, if not terribly creative, they’re also not obviously dysfunctional in every respect. Since parents want their kids to be smart enough to get into their alma maters without having to give the school a seven-figure sum first, a child born to a Jewish father and Chinese-American mother is already halfway ready for its SAT.

    This post (about the possibility of Obama being rejected by predominantly Jewish country clubs in suburban D.C.) has to be the most iSteve-ish story of 2017 so far. The only thing that could make it even better is if the golf clubs preparing to blackball the first black president were…in Southern California, with lots of rich Hollywood Jewish liberals citing “security concerns” about having an ex-President as a member. The kind of places where Larry David might actually be a member in real life (when he’s not in his “schooner down at the marina”).

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  266. @Lot
    Steve portrays discrimination against Jews as a pre-war thing or limited to petty complaints about country clubs, but La Jolla had a very effective realtor conspiracy against Jews that lasted until the mid 1960's, and only when the state threatened to move the proposed site of UCSD somewhere else if it did not end.

    http://www.lajollalight.com/sdljl-a-specter-from-our-past-longtime-residents-will-2005apr07-story.html

    So, your complaints are exclusion from country clubs and cliffside California paradise.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    La Jolla is bigger than the cliff side mansions that it is famous for, and in the 1960s was a middle class suburban area close to a new major jobs center.
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  267. Gabriel M says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Parenthetically, it later emerged that the rape by deception charge was the result of a plea bargain. He had, at least according to the girl, actually raped her.

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  268. donut says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Yeah , yeah ,yeah “Parenthetically, it later emerged that the rape by deception charge was the result of a plea bargain. He had, at least according to the girl, actually raped her.” Have you heard about the false rape charges here in the USA ? UV , Sabrina Erdly ? The Rolling Stone ? What a stooge . If it’s a Jew you swallow but with a white boy you spit .

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  269. @Jack D
    The Century was among the last to admit women (in 1989) and that only because of a court order. I always thought the Harmonie was the (German) Jewish club.

    You’re missing my point it seems. The Century was in no way a Jewish club historically, but over time came to be seen as such by at least one New York Jew of the late 20th century.
    The process is a familiar one: exclusion, inclusion, takeover.

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  270. @Kyle McKenna

    The two most exclusive country clubs in Pebble Beach never see a Jew from one season to the next.
     
    That's incredibly hard to believe. Any substantiation for it? I spend a lot of time in PB and there are many Jews everywhere and FWIW most are obscenely wealthy. Not that I'm equating money with social status, mind you.

    Which two clubs do you consider the most prestigious? I'm not one of the social elite so more of my time has been spent on the Golf Links. When I was a kid, we'd visit my grandparents' friends in Carmel and if I thought there was an experience available today like what we knew then, I'd sign up forthwith.

    I meant of course the two clubs which I see you have already looked into.
    There may be lots of Jews these days in PB, but they will not be found at either Cypress Point or the MPCC. The rare exception (not that I know of any) only proves the rule.
    Carmel is not what it used to be, but the more private bits of Pebble Beach still are. Unfortunately you cannot simply “sign up” to enjoy the experience.

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    • Replies: @benjaminl
    I learned from Wikipedia that Herbert Fleishhacker funded Samuel F.B. Morse's Del Monte Properties in developing Pebble Beach. I bet he could have had a membership.

    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49064675
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Finley_Brown_Morse
    , @PV van der Byl
    Unlike the NY metropolitan area, the population of the Monterey peninsula is quite small and Pebble Beach (permanent population is something like 3000) has six public courses in addition to the two private clubs you refer to.

    I think there are another dozen or so courses in the peninsula outside PB. Both the Naval Post-graduate School and Fort Ord have their own golf courses.

    I have to believe that almost anyone could find some place to play in the area on any given day even if teetimes at The Pebble Beach and Spanish Bay courses have long waiting lists.
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  271. Hodag says:

    Condi Rice is purportedly a member at Cypress Point. They let a black woman in and will not let Jews in? I find that hard to believe. I do know of a mainly Irish club abutting Chicago that will not let Jews in and a Jewish club also abutting Chicago letting gentiles in for decades. Both clubs are looking for members and on the merits the Jewish club is a better course – they are both Langfords’ but the Jewish club cut down a lot of trees in a recent renovation. Downstrokes are similar but the dues at the Jewish club are much more dear, due to the nosh.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The 9-hole course (South Shore Cultural Center golf course) Rahn Emmanuel is talking about merging with 18-hole Jackson Park golf course to form a super municipal course with some private sponsorship, bringing in private money, was, until about 1970, a private club with many Catholic and no Jewish (except for a short time in the 1920s hen they needed money) members. There was never even one black member ever. A proposal by some members to admit black and Jewish members to keep the place afloat was rejected in favor of selling the place at a fire sale price, I think, or maybe giving it away, to the City to use as a park. The open land area of the park is 95% golf course; there's a small beach. Five percent of the old clubhouse is a mini-clubhouse for the golf course; the other 95% is for various cultural events and sometimes private parties.
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  272. @Steve Sailer
    It's not uncommon for the US Open to go to the more Catholic club than to the super WASP one, such as to Olympic rather than its neighbor San Francisco or to Winged Foot in Westchester County, or to Olympia Fields in Chicago in 2003.

    A topic I've never seen much about was the status of Catholics in the upper reaches of the old American social system. My vague impression is that upper crust Irish Catholics were pretty much accepted: e.g., National Golf Links of America founder Charles Blair MacDonald's daughter married the son of the wealthy Irish Catholic mayor of NYC William Grace. Did F. Scott Fitzgerald get slighted much for being Irish Catholic?

    Italians and Poles probably had it harder.

    You’re forgetting the Germans, who were the first to be accepted, the Havemeyers of old New York being perhaps the pre-eminent example.
    As for the Irish, it would depend upon the city. Big in New York and Chicago and St Louis; still not really in in Boston.
    “Italians and Poles probably had it harder”. They still do, I promise you, unless they were princes or counts back home.

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  273. As an American Jew, I absolutely DISAGREE with obama’s decision to abstain from the UN’s vote. If Woodmont grants him membership free or even if he pays for it, the only thing Woodmont will have done is encourage behavior like Obamas which will then be furthered by further POTUS’ of a certain stripe.

    How many hundreds of millions of tax-payer dollars has Obama already given to those who want to destroy Israel? That’s not enough, in itself, to not warrant a free membership in a country club where he can lobby future politicians to further sell out Israel?

    Choices have consequences and he must learn that at some point.

    Just say no.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    As an American Jew, I absolutely DISAGREE with obama’s decision to abstain from the UN’s vote.

    That's a shame. Because from the American-American perspective, it was the right thing to do. In fact, he should have affirmatively voted in favor.

    We'd also like back the billions of dollars in welfare that we've had to give to Israel.

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  274. @Jack D
    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don't belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.

    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don’t belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.

    Yes, but the focus of the current Narrative is remarkably simplistic and narrow, as if the African and/or Jewish experience of oppression was a uniquely bad historical thing. In reality, life for most Americans of all groups in the past was a rough and tumble grind. My rural Tennessee/Carolina ancestors wouldn’t have given a damn about Yankee sons-of-b*****s ‘ country clubs or memberships thereof because they would have been turned away at the door just as surely as an uppity Russian Jew immigrant. I’m sure my great-granddad would have said “rich folk gonna do what rich folk do; and we ain’t no rich folk”. But he would be happy with his American freedom to farm his small plot farm and hunt and fish, and enjoy a good pull on some locally produced whiskey because, despite his grandpappy losing the War of Northern Aggression, the Feds largely were not inserting themselves into his daily life like they do today.

    Africans have talked themselves into believing that their slave experience was some unique world historical horror. In reality, the vast majority of us are descended from slaves from some point in the past. Hell the Russian serfs (bunch of “white” folk last time I checked) didn’t officially become freemen until 1861. American Jews have done extremely well in spite of this high-drama “oppression” at the hands of some evil WASP overlords. I’m not very sympathetic to this line of argument.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Africans have talked themselves into believing that their slave experience was some unique world historical horror. In reality, the vast majority of us are descended from slaves from some point in the past. Hell the Russian serfs (bunch of “white” folk last time I checked) didn’t officially become freemen until 1861.

    Could American blacks alive today be said to have uniquely benefited from slavery?
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  275. benjaminl says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    I meant of course the two clubs which I see you have already looked into.
    There may be lots of Jews these days in PB, but they will not be found at either Cypress Point or the MPCC. The rare exception (not that I know of any) only proves the rule.
    Carmel is not what it used to be, but the more private bits of Pebble Beach still are. Unfortunately you cannot simply "sign up" to enjoy the experience.

    I learned from Wikipedia that Herbert Fleishhacker funded Samuel F.B. Morse’s Del Monte Properties in developing Pebble Beach. I bet he could have had a membership.

    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49064675

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Finley_Brown_Morse

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  276. @Jack D
    What you are saying is true of social or city clubs but not golf clubs. The 1st 18 hole golf course in America was not built until 1894, which just about coincided with the great Ellis Island wave of Russian Jews who set off anti-Semitism in America by their great #'s and their nouveau riche ways. Before discrimination can really get going you need a critical mass. There is no American stereotype or history of discrimination against say Slovenians because (until Melania) most Americans have never even met a Slovenian. That was the position of Jews in pre-great wave America - a tiny (and mostly well established) minority.


    However, there were earlier city clubs in places like SF that had (German) Jews among their founders but then when American anti-Semitism really got going in the 20th century they would no longer let in Jews.

    So what was it about Russian Jews that set off anti-Semitism? Not arguing; just asking.

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    • Replies: @Jacobite

    Not arguing
     
    I think you are getting close to an answer about congenial sportsmanship.
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  277. @Old Palo Altan
    I meant of course the two clubs which I see you have already looked into.
    There may be lots of Jews these days in PB, but they will not be found at either Cypress Point or the MPCC. The rare exception (not that I know of any) only proves the rule.
    Carmel is not what it used to be, but the more private bits of Pebble Beach still are. Unfortunately you cannot simply "sign up" to enjoy the experience.

    Unlike the NY metropolitan area, the population of the Monterey peninsula is quite small and Pebble Beach (permanent population is something like 3000) has six public courses in addition to the two private clubs you refer to.

    I think there are another dozen or so courses in the peninsula outside PB. Both the Naval Post-graduate School and Fort Ord have their own golf courses.

    I have to believe that almost anyone could find some place to play in the area on any given day even if teetimes at The Pebble Beach and Spanish Bay courses have long waiting lists.

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  278. Ed says:
    @AndrewR
    OT but very important.

    Hussein's Department of Injustice is suing a city that is 1/3 black for not having any blacks on its city council due to an at-large voting system.

    This is the future

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2017/01/11/doj-files-voting-rights-suit-against-eastpointe/96438166/

    This future has been halted unless Sessions has let all the racism charges get to him. I doubt it.

    The story of this city is classic Sailer bait though. The 2000 Census listed blacks at <5% of the population, 2010 Census had them a 25% black & current estimates have them at 40%. The schools are now 70% black where as recently as 10 years or so ago they were 10%. Why? In addition to more blacks moving in the school district participated in a school choice system that allowed blacks from Detroit & other areas to attend their schools.

    I wonder how much of Macomb county's shift to Trump was motivated by white flight on the ground as opposed to national issues?

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  279. Lot says:
    @Alec Leamas
    So, your complaints are exclusion from country clubs and cliffside California paradise.

    La Jolla is bigger than the cliff side mansions that it is famous for, and in the 1960s was a middle class suburban area close to a new major jobs center.

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    • Replies: @Jacobite
    Indeed, a bungalow at the Shores is the hot setup if you have younger kids. Lifeguards!
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  280. Ed says:
    @Steve Sailer
    It's not uncommon for the US Open to go to the more Catholic club than to the super WASP one, such as to Olympic rather than its neighbor San Francisco or to Winged Foot in Westchester County, or to Olympia Fields in Chicago in 2003.

    A topic I've never seen much about was the status of Catholics in the upper reaches of the old American social system. My vague impression is that upper crust Irish Catholics were pretty much accepted: e.g., National Golf Links of America founder Charles Blair MacDonald's daughter married the son of the wealthy Irish Catholic mayor of NYC William Grace. Did F. Scott Fitzgerald get slighted much for being Irish Catholic?

    Italians and Poles probably had it harder.

    Joseph Kennedy stopped going to Harvard reunions in large part because he felt slighted due to his religion.

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Boston is a special case.

    I am not aware of any other American city of comparable size, having had such animus between Irish-Catholics and founding stock Protestants between the early nineteenth century and mid to late twentieth century.
    , @Jacobite
    Philadelphia.
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  281. Jacobite says:
    @Lot
    La Jolla is bigger than the cliff side mansions that it is famous for, and in the 1960s was a middle class suburban area close to a new major jobs center.

    Indeed, a bungalow at the Shores is the hot setup if you have younger kids. Lifeguards!

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  282. @Ed
    Joseph Kennedy stopped going to Harvard reunions in large part because he felt slighted due to his religion.

    Boston is a special case.

    I am not aware of any other American city of comparable size, having had such animus between Irish-Catholics and founding stock Protestants between the early nineteenth century and mid to late twentieth century.

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  283. guest says:
    @Anon
    It is dumb if Kowal is a gentile. But smart if she is Jewish.

    As Jews are minority elites in gentile nation, it is in their interest to increase diversity and resort to Divide and Rule.

    So, if by 'realism' Kowal meant the Realpolitik of minority elite power, it makes total sense.

    Subtracting gentile homogeneity leads to increase in Jewish Power. For Real.

    A homogeneous gentile population may be friendly to Jews. But the general norm is the people feelign resentment toward the rich and powerful, especially if the rich and powerful are of another ethnic group -- consider all the bitterness among blacks about whites who are richer. As Jews generally reach the top(and some Jews can't help abusing their privilege), there is the possibility that even gentiles who are kindly to Jews may one day turn against them. When a homogeneous gentile population turns against Jews, it could mean trouble.

    However, a diverse gentile population can't do much harm to Jews even if all of them hate, hate, and hate Jews. Why? Because they will be too busy going at each other's throats to come together to unite against Jewish power. Even if they hate Jews, they also hate one another.

    So, the Jewish Realism of Power favors adding diversity and subtracting homogeneity among the gentiles.
    The math formula of power: Diversity - Homogeneity = Jewish Dominance.

    The risk they run with that strategy is that they get swamped by diversity, lose their superspecial head minority status, and are looked at as just more white people by the hordes they’ve invited in. Which is happening.

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  284. Jacobite says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    So what was it about Russian Jews that set off anti-Semitism? Not arguing; just asking.

    Not arguing

    I think you are getting close to an answer about congenial sportsmanship.

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  285. Jacobite says:
    @Ed
    Joseph Kennedy stopped going to Harvard reunions in large part because he felt slighted due to his religion.

    Philadelphia.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Kennedy's life as a youth and very early career were in Boston, the rest of his career was in NY, DC, LA and London, with vacation homes in MA and FL. What's the Philadelphia connection?
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  286. @homemaides
    As an American Jew, I absolutely DISAGREE with obama's decision to abstain from the UN's vote. If Woodmont grants him membership free or even if he pays for it, the only thing Woodmont will have done is encourage behavior like Obamas which will then be furthered by further POTUS' of a certain stripe.

    How many hundreds of millions of tax-payer dollars has Obama already given to those who want to destroy Israel? That's not enough, in itself, to not warrant a free membership in a country club where he can lobby future politicians to further sell out Israel?

    Choices have consequences and he must learn that at some point.

    Just say no.

    As an American Jew, I absolutely DISAGREE with obama’s decision to abstain from the UN’s vote.

    That’s a shame. Because from the American-American perspective, it was the right thing to do. In fact, he should have affirmatively voted in favor.

    We’d also like back the billions of dollars in welfare that we’ve had to give to Israel.

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  287. @Captain Tripps

    What you say is probably true but it only goes to show that the vestiges of segregation are still alive today and don’t belong only to the distant past as Steve would have us believe.
     
    Yes, but the focus of the current Narrative is remarkably simplistic and narrow, as if the African and/or Jewish experience of oppression was a uniquely bad historical thing. In reality, life for most Americans of all groups in the past was a rough and tumble grind. My rural Tennessee/Carolina ancestors wouldn't have given a damn about Yankee sons-of-b*****s ' country clubs or memberships thereof because they would have been turned away at the door just as surely as an uppity Russian Jew immigrant. I'm sure my great-granddad would have said "rich folk gonna do what rich folk do; and we ain't no rich folk". But he would be happy with his American freedom to farm his small plot farm and hunt and fish, and enjoy a good pull on some locally produced whiskey because, despite his grandpappy losing the War of Northern Aggression, the Feds largely were not inserting themselves into his daily life like they do today.

    Africans have talked themselves into believing that their slave experience was some unique world historical horror. In reality, the vast majority of us are descended from slaves from some point in the past. Hell the Russian serfs (bunch of "white" folk last time I checked) didn't officially become freemen until 1861. American Jews have done extremely well in spite of this high-drama "oppression" at the hands of some evil WASP overlords. I'm not very sympathetic to this line of argument.

    Africans have talked themselves into believing that their slave experience was some unique world historical horror. In reality, the vast majority of us are descended from slaves from some point in the past. Hell the Russian serfs (bunch of “white” folk last time I checked) didn’t officially become freemen until 1861.

    Could American blacks alive today be said to have uniquely benefited from slavery?

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  288. @SFG
    Not enough people will get that reference. And I definitely think Spencer had a point.

    The point Spencer made is already so widely recognized, at least among us, that is virtually banal.

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  289. @Jack D
    Reading between the lines, what is implied is that Charles was sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn't mind having around (in fact asked to join their frat) but they drew the line when he mentioned a couple of his slightly Jewier looking/acting friends.

    Reading between the lines, what is implied is that Charles was sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn’t mind having around (in fact asked to join their frat) but they drew the line when he mentioned a couple of his slightly Jewier looking/acting friends.

    Hogwash. That is your own bigoted prejudice against Northern Europeans talking. Classic confirmation bias.

    You know, fraternities regularly decline to extend bids to prospective pledges, for reasons of a prospect’s character or personality or because of limited space in a class. It is common for one friend to receive a bid while his friends are rejected.

    The fact that Moskowitz in fact received a bid itself puts in peril your “evil WASP” narrative. So you’ve had to invent out of whole cloth this concept of the “sort of an assimilated acceptable type Jew that the WASPs wouldn’t mind having around.” Northern Europeans don’t have this notion of assimilated versus unassimilated jews. If in fact the fraternity had Anglo Saxon members at all, clearly they had no problem counting jews among their brothers. Perhaps there was something else about his close friend that gave people pause.

    And if NYU back then really had the large population of jews that some say it did, surely there would be other fraternities jews could have joined.

    So maybe Moskowitz just wanted to be in the same fraternity with his friends. Or maybe he was highly ethnocentric (taking after many of his “brethren”) and wanted to be in a club that excluded Gentiles.

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  290. Hibernian says:
    @Hodag
    Condi Rice is purportedly a member at Cypress Point. They let a black woman in and will not let Jews in? I find that hard to believe. I do know of a mainly Irish club abutting Chicago that will not let Jews in and a Jewish club also abutting Chicago letting gentiles in for decades. Both clubs are looking for members and on the merits the Jewish club is a better course - they are both Langfords' but the Jewish club cut down a lot of trees in a recent renovation. Downstrokes are similar but the dues at the Jewish club are much more dear, due to the nosh.

    The 9-hole course (South Shore Cultural Center golf course) Rahn Emmanuel is talking about merging with 18-hole Jackson Park golf course to form a super municipal course with some private sponsorship, bringing in private money, was, until about 1970, a private club with many Catholic and no Jewish (except for a short time in the 1920s hen they needed money) members. There was never even one black member ever. A proposal by some members to admit black and Jewish members to keep the place afloat was rejected in favor of selling the place at a fire sale price, I think, or maybe giving it away, to the City to use as a park. The open land area of the park is 95% golf course; there’s a small beach. Five percent of the old clubhouse is a mini-clubhouse for the golf course; the other 95% is for various cultural events and sometimes private parties.

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  291. Hibernian says:
    @Jacobite
    Philadelphia.

    Kennedy’s life as a youth and very early career were in Boston, the rest of his career was in NY, DC, LA and London, with vacation homes in MA and FL. What’s the Philadelphia connection?

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    • Replies: @Jacobite
    I mistakenly answered the wrong post by Ed. He stated that Boston was unique in the long-term level of animus between WASPs and Irish. I was suggesting Philadelphia may come close.
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  292. Jacobite says:
    @Hibernian
    Kennedy's life as a youth and very early career were in Boston, the rest of his career was in NY, DC, LA and London, with vacation homes in MA and FL. What's the Philadelphia connection?

    I mistakenly answered the wrong post by Ed. He stated that Boston was unique in the long-term level of animus between WASPs and Irish. I was suggesting Philadelphia may come close.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I was suggesting Philadelphia may come close
     
    Grace Kelly had more class than all the Kennedys put together.
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  293. @International Jew

    One privilege in belonging to a country club is that you don’t have to schedule your time to play golf.
     
    That might be an advantage for me, but it seems irrelevant for a guy in such high demand as Obama. Same way he's never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant.

    I don't get how being in this club will be good for his social life either. I thought he and Michelle prefer the company of a few old, and black, friends from Chicago?

    Same way he’s never going to have trouble reserving a table at any fancy restaurant

    A bistro in Chappaqua was informed by the Secret Service that they’d have to make a couple alterations for security purposes before the Clintons could be allowed to eat there. Those changes were never made.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    That's great! Makes me wish I belonged to a CC so I could black ball both BJC and BHO. Two more worthless destructive self-absorbed a******s never walked the earth.
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  294. @syonredux

    Gotta love that everyone relies on fiction to document their points.
     
    Well, Michener's stuff was extensively researched.....and he played fair (letting the reader know when he was inventing characters and incidents, etc)

    My favorite Michener fiction is his prediction that should the Electoral College (about which he wrote an antagonistic non-fiction book) ever again diverge from the holy and so-called “popular vote”, Americans wouldn’t accept the result and the EC would be history.

    Boy, was he ever proved wrong. Twice.

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  295. @Jacobite
    I mistakenly answered the wrong post by Ed. He stated that Boston was unique in the long-term level of animus between WASPs and Irish. I was suggesting Philadelphia may come close.

    I was suggesting Philadelphia may come close

    Grace Kelly had more class than all the Kennedys put together.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    So long as you (properly) consider Jacqueline a Bouvier and not a Kennedy, I definitely agree. Aside from her, considering 'real' Kennedys, I'd say Kathleen (Kick) was worthy, and JFK's two children, perhaps to a lesser degree. But most were (and are) marginally disgraceful, or worse.

    Then of course there was Jello Biafra..

    , @Jack D
    There are a lot of stories about Grace Kelly that indicate that her sexual appetites and desire for variety were sort of the female equivalent of JFK. Maybe half of these stories are untrue but that still leaves a long list.
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  296. Over the generations, the stories sometimes got retconned to blame gentiles.

    Just like those stories of how the immigration agents at Ellis Island changed the family’s name. Those agents had neither the authority nor the interest to do so. They merely copied the manifests filled out in Europe.

    CNN reported that Obama is the 15th of the last 18 presidents to play golf

    Weren’t four of the last five or six left-handed? Did any swing left as well?

    And, according to its website, the Woodmont Country Club has won “Best Place for a Bar/Bat Mitzvah” in every Bethesda Magazine readers’ poll since 2011. …

    Did Cass Elliott ever perform there? I’ve seen the assertion that the lyric “no one’s getting fat ‘cept Mama Cass” was not about her figure, but about how she was the only member of the M&Ps or Spoonful making any money, which she earned on the side at bar mitzvahs and weddings.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I've seen some revision from leftist corners on the Ellis Island Forced Name Assimilation Thing, and their take was something like government was too competent and really cared, because New Colossus and melting pot.

    No wait, they don't like the melting pot anymore. Because mosaic, or whatever metaphor we use in the current year.
    , @Jack D
    No it wasn't by the agents at Ellis Island per se, but there were a number of points where names would get changed - by whoever filled out the ship's manifest, when they became citizens, etc. You had immigrants from places with non-Roman alphabets (Russia, Greece, etc.) so those had to get Romanized. Then you had immigrants from places that did have Roman alphabets but the pronunciation systems were different (e.g. Slavic languages with lots of consonant blends) and impossible for Americans to