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Jared Diamond on Haiti and Immigration Policy
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Above is a photo of the Haiti-Dominican Republic border made famous by Jared Diamond, author of the much-celebrated Guns Germs, and Steel.

Haiti is the eroded, deforested wasteland on the left while the Dominican Republic is the verdant forest land on the right.

Why is Haiti stuck with the Tragic Dirt, while Dominican Republic gets all the Magic Dirt?

Diamond wrote a chapter in his bestseller Collapse about why Haiti is so horrible compared to adjoining DR. He later edited a book growing out of the comparison entitled Natural Experiments of History.

Diamond wrote in The Guardian in 2010 about why Haiti is the way it is compared to DR:

A second social and political factor is that the Dominican Republic – with its Spanish-speaking population of predominantly European ancestry – was both more receptive and more ­attractive to European immigrants and investors than was Haiti with its Creole-speaking population composed overwhelmingly of black former slaves. … Hence European immigration and investment were negligible and restricted by the constitution in Haiti after 1804 but eventually became important in the Dominican Republic. Those Dominican immigrants included many middle-class businesspeople and skilled professionals who contributed to the country’s development.

Maybe somebody should ask Diamond what he thinks about Trump’s views on Haiti and immigration policy.

If you read Jared Diamond very carefully, you can notice he’s another West L.A. skeptic of mass immigration, in the vein of Mickey Kaus, Stephen Miller, and Ben Zuckerman.

I wrote about Haiti in 2010 after the horrible earthquake.

 
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  1. You know, I’d probably ease up on mocking some of you if you would just admit you respond like hysterical women being gaslit by an enemy media, but nah.

    Instead you’ll just take a break from your posting career before running back here with I KNEW TRUMP WOULD BETRAY US the ninth time the media tells you an amnesty is right around the corner.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    LOL
    , @Anonymous
    Is this the first time the Madman Theory has been applied to domestic policy?
    , @gruff

    Instead you’ll just take a break from your posting career before running back here
     
    my posting career is well in hand
    , @Ed
    Right on! Earlier this week they were all hysterical about Trump cucking immigration. We tried to tell them not so, chill out. Like you say just like a bunch of hysterical women.

    Trump is the best thing ever for immigration restrictionist. Issue is we need more in Congress. He’s getting hammered and few are defending him.
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  2. What are the Haitians cooking with if their part of the island has been so deforested? A few years back I read they were digging up old tree roots and burning them. My theory is that the US and international aid is shipping in kerosene and propane for cooking. Propane being distributed via the 20lb cylinders we have on our BBQ grills. You hook up the cylinder to a two burner cook stove. As far as immigrant quality the Haitians rank just above Somalians and Sudanese but are not Muslims.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    What are the Haitians cooking with if their part of the island has been so deforested?

    I don't know either, but there's always dried dung. People all over the world have used it.
    , @ogunsiron
    As far as immigrant quality the Haitians rank just above Somalians and Sudanese but are not Muslims.
    -----
    It'd be interested in an exploration of this topic actually. I think that Montreal would be a hellhole if the above were true. Montreal would certainly be a much, much worse place to live if the population of haitians was replaced by somalis and/or south-sudanese.

    The south-florida haitians can be really, really low grade so maybe those are the ones most ppl here are thinking of. I'm guessing the typical black haitian in south-florida is the IQ72 type. Regional variation maybe ?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a ‘shithole’, why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say “think twice — say once”. Or more extremely in China – “A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Because he wouldn't be Trump otherwise.

    I mean honestly, you're asking this question more than a year into his Presidency? :)
    , @Hysterical
    Drumpf is surely finished now!!
    , @Jack Hanson
    Only to "100% REAL HONEST NOT AT ALL FAKE" Trump 'supporters' like yourself is he somehow "undermining his message".

    Everyone else is saying "Yeah, he's right." So,what's the problem?

    Rhetorical question. I know you and others here are paid to engage in blackpill doom masturbation until the heat death of the sun.
    , @J.Ross
    What's the harm? I see a benefit: normies are forced to admit that the world does not end if you use "problematic" language.
    Also:
    >our expression should be patterned on Russians and Chinese
    No thank you. Cuisine, yes. Interior decorating, yes. But these two groups have nothing to teach us about expression (or law). The reason they are like that is not widely distributed intelligence or painstaking carefulness. They are like that because all of their previous governments were Saturninishly bloodthirsty unaccountable Leviathans that nailed down every upright nail. Russians also say that anyone who smiles without having a good reason to is a fool.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    You should’ve thought some more before posting. Zzzzinnng!!!
    , @Janson
    Dmitry said

    ...why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance...
     
    I believe he is naive. He is not a politician. He thinks people like him and they won't betray him. He thinks they'll do what he asks. He doesn't think they'll run straight to the media and say "He said this and he said that". He is quite a simple man trying to deal with lying, cheating scumbags. It must be gruelling.
    , @Dieter Kief

    why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language

     

    People from different cultures speak and think differently - you know - like Chinese, Russians and -New Yorkers, for example. That's what makes life colorful - and interesting: all those little differences -relx - and rejoice human cultural (bio)diversity!
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  4. DR was one of a few places to welcome Jewish refugees from Hitlerite Europe before it was cool (along with Franco’s Spain, which granted full citizenship). Funny how that isn’t mentioned more often. Of course, that group of European immigrants would be arriving far too late to affect the general pattern.
    DR’s had a Day of the Rope (their own term) in which they “corrected” what illegal immigration from Haiti was occuring. It was very effective and DR’s I meet nowadays are unabashedly proud of this effectiveness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    The Parsley Massacre (Spanish: el corte "the cutting";[4] Haitian Creole: kout kouto-a "the stabbing"[5]) was carried out in October 1937 against Haitians living in the Dominican Republic. It was carried out by Dominican Army troops on the direct orders of Dictator Rafael Trujillo. Haitian President Élie Lescot put the death toll at 12,168; in 1953, the Haitian historian Jean Price-Mars cited 12,136 deaths and 2,419 injuries. In 1975, Joaquín Balaguer, the Dominican Republic's interim Foreign Minister at the time of the massacre, put the number of dead at 17,000. Other estimates compiled by the Dominican historian Bernardo Vega were as high as 35,000.[6]
     

    Rafael Trujillo, a proponent of anti-Haitianism, made his intentions towards the Haitian community clear in a short speech he gave 2 October 1937 at a dance in his honor in Dajabón. He said,

    For some months, I have traveled and traversed the border in every sense of the word. I have seen, investigated, and inquired about the needs of the population. To the Dominicans who were complaining of the depredations by Haitians living among them, thefts of cattle, provisions, fruits, etc., and were thus prevented from enjoying in peace the products of their labor, I have responded, 'I will fix this.' And we have already begun to remedy the situation. Three hundred Haitians are now dead in Bánica. This remedy will continue.
    [9]

    Trujillo reportedly was acting in response to reports of Haitians stealing cattle and crops from Dominican borderland residents. According to some sources, the massacre killed an estimated 20,000 Haitians[10][11] living in the Dominican border—clearly at Trujillo's direct order. However, as shown in the table below and mentioned above, estimates of the number of victims vary widely. For approximately five days, from 2 October 1937 to 8 October 1937, Dominican troops killed Haitians with rifles, machetes, clubs, knives, and bayonets. Haitian children were reportedly thrown in the air and caught by soldiers' bayonets, then thrown on their mothers' corpses.[12] Some died while trying to flee to Haiti across the Artibonite River, which has often been the site of bloody conflict between the two nations.[13]

    Lauren Derby claims that a majority of those who died were born in the Dominican Republic and belonged to well-established Haitian communities in the borderlands.[14] However, it is difficult for anyone to ascertain a victim's place of birth, especially considering that, in most cases, their identities are unknown, and their births may not have been officially recorded. Furthermore, Haiti has historically awarded citizenship by Jus sanguinis, making anyone with a Haitian parent a Haitian citizen, whereas from as early as 1929 until 2014, the Dominican Republic followed a restricted Jus soli citizenship policy, which excluded from this privilege illegal residents and anyone not having legal permanent residency status.[15][16]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsley_massacre



    Rafael Trujillo





    https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE5NTU2MzE1OTQyMzg5MjU5/rafael-trujillo-39891-1-402.jpg
    , @a reader

    DR’s had a Day of the Rope (their own term) in which they “corrected” what illegal immigration from Haiti was occuring.
     
    The more recent legalistic version hardly provoked any ripples and was barely noticed (by the MSM at least).

    I remember being surprised at the time by the absence of outcry this law generated, as would have been the case had a white country enacted a similar measure.

    Could it be emulated?
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  5. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    Because he wouldn’t be Trump otherwise.

    I mean honestly, you’re asking this question more than a year into his Presidency? :)

    Read More
    • Agree: Dmitry
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  6. @Jack Hanson
    You know, I'd probably ease up on mocking some of you if you would just admit you respond like hysterical women being gaslit by an enemy media, but nah.

    Instead you'll just take a break from your posting career before running back here with I KNEW TRUMP WOULD BETRAY US the ninth time the media tells you an amnesty is right around the corner.

    LOL

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. @Jack Hanson
    You know, I'd probably ease up on mocking some of you if you would just admit you respond like hysterical women being gaslit by an enemy media, but nah.

    Instead you'll just take a break from your posting career before running back here with I KNEW TRUMP WOULD BETRAY US the ninth time the media tells you an amnesty is right around the corner.

    Is this the first time the Madman Theory has been applied to domestic policy?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I can get on board with this, but on the other hand I don't want to use pat analogies based off of previous Presidents. No offense to you.

    Trump, if successful with his end goal, is going to be studied for ages for his ability to succeed.

    I prefer the term "Thousand Hazy Paths".
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  8. Imagine how much more Singapore and Hong Kong would be flourishing if they hadn’t cut down all their tropical rain forests like Haiti did having replaced them with pavement urbanization and skyscrapers.

    Tragically Deforested Singapore

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Thin, I don't think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.
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  9. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    Drumpf is surely finished now!!

    Read More
    • LOL: Jack Hanson
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  10. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    Only to “100% REAL HONEST NOT AT ALL FAKE” Trump ‘supporters’ like yourself is he somehow “undermining his message”.

    Everyone else is saying “Yeah, he’s right.” So,what’s the problem?

    Rhetorical question. I know you and others here are paid to engage in blackpill doom masturbation until the heat death of the sun.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well I can't vote for Trump, but I would have voted for him if I could. But let's just imagine he had gone to diplomatic academy (and paid attention in the lessons there - ok, we're going into science fiction): it would make his agenda a lot easier to pass, and they would be passed in a less watered-down version than they will be now that he needlessly stirs up additional resistance to it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    What’s the harm? I see a benefit: normies are forced to admit that the world does not end if you use “problematic” language.
    Also:
    >our expression should be patterned on Russians and Chinese
    No thank you. Cuisine, yes. Interior decorating, yes. But these two groups have nothing to teach us about expression (or law). The reason they are like that is not widely distributed intelligence or painstaking carefulness. They are like that because all of their previous governments were Saturninishly bloodthirsty unaccountable Leviathans that nailed down every upright nail. Russians also say that anyone who smiles without having a good reason to is a fool.

    Read More
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  12. @Jack Hanson
    Only to "100% REAL HONEST NOT AT ALL FAKE" Trump 'supporters' like yourself is he somehow "undermining his message".

    Everyone else is saying "Yeah, he's right." So,what's the problem?

    Rhetorical question. I know you and others here are paid to engage in blackpill doom masturbation until the heat death of the sun.

    Well I can’t vote for Trump, but I would have voted for him if I could. But let’s just imagine he had gone to diplomatic academy (and paid attention in the lessons there – ok, we’re going into science fiction): it would make his agenda a lot easier to pass, and they would be passed in a less watered-down version than they will be now that he needlessly stirs up additional resistance to it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    "Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!"

    Steve that you?
    , @J.Ross

    it would make his agenda a lot easier to pass
     
    That's not close to being true, in any country. It's especially untrue here. You must have missed the memo where Democratic strategists were openly saying that retaining as many Dreamers as possible now is how they're going to win elections later. We're not facing reasonable people who make their own decisions and are waiting for the right turn of phrase. Politicians are generally the satraps of powerful interests, and in ths case the powerful are pretty clear about wanting us to die out. Our mass media agonize over every non-Palestinian Muslim who stubs his toe, as the same media refuse to report on white women who are raped in public or tortured to death. But Trump would overturn a multi-billion dollar intercontinental plan if he said "please." No, he would not.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. @J.Ross
    DR was one of a few places to welcome Jewish refugees from Hitlerite Europe before it was cool (along with Franco's Spain, which granted full citizenship). Funny how that isn't mentioned more often. Of course, that group of European immigrants would be arriving far too late to affect the general pattern.
    DR's had a Day of the Rope (their own term) in which they "corrected" what illegal immigration from Haiti was occuring. It was very effective and DR's I meet nowadays are unabashedly proud of this effectiveness.

    The Parsley Massacre (Spanish: el corte “the cutting”;[4] Haitian Creole: kout kouto-a “the stabbing”[5]) was carried out in October 1937 against Haitians living in the Dominican Republic. It was carried out by Dominican Army troops on the direct orders of Dictator Rafael Trujillo. Haitian President Élie Lescot put the death toll at 12,168; in 1953, the Haitian historian Jean Price-Mars cited 12,136 deaths and 2,419 injuries. In 1975, Joaquín Balaguer, the Dominican Republic’s interim Foreign Minister at the time of the massacre, put the number of dead at 17,000. Other estimates compiled by the Dominican historian Bernardo Vega were as high as 35,000.[6]

    Rafael Trujillo, a proponent of anti-Haitianism, made his intentions towards the Haitian community clear in a short speech he gave 2 October 1937 at a dance in his honor in Dajabón. He said,

    For some months, I have traveled and traversed the border in every sense of the word. I have seen, investigated, and inquired about the needs of the population. To the Dominicans who were complaining of the depredations by Haitians living among them, thefts of cattle, provisions, fruits, etc., and were thus prevented from enjoying in peace the products of their labor, I have responded, ‘I will fix this.’ And we have already begun to remedy the situation. Three hundred Haitians are now dead in Bánica. This remedy will continue.[9]

    Trujillo reportedly was acting in response to reports of Haitians stealing cattle and crops from Dominican borderland residents. According to some sources, the massacre killed an estimated 20,000 Haitians[10][11] living in the Dominican border—clearly at Trujillo’s direct order. However, as shown in the table below and mentioned above, estimates of the number of victims vary widely. For approximately five days, from 2 October 1937 to 8 October 1937, Dominican troops killed Haitians with rifles, machetes, clubs, knives, and bayonets. Haitian children were reportedly thrown in the air and caught by soldiers’ bayonets, then thrown on their mothers’ corpses.[12] Some died while trying to flee to Haiti across the Artibonite River, which has often been the site of bloody conflict between the two nations.[13]

    Lauren Derby claims that a majority of those who died were born in the Dominican Republic and belonged to well-established Haitian communities in the borderlands.[14] However, it is difficult for anyone to ascertain a victim’s place of birth, especially considering that, in most cases, their identities are unknown, and their births may not have been officially recorded. Furthermore, Haiti has historically awarded citizenship by Jus sanguinis, making anyone with a Haitian parent a Haitian citizen, whereas from as early as 1929 until 2014, the Dominican Republic followed a restricted Jus soli citizenship policy, which excluded from this privilege illegal residents and anyone not having legal permanent residency status.[15][16]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsley_massacre

    Rafael Trujillo

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Haitian children were reportedly thrown in the air and caught by soldiers’ bayonets

    That assertion has been used to describe enemy behavior since the invention of the bayonet. (Before that, presumably, soldiers were catching enemy infants on their pikes, and before that, pile.) It was asserted, without any evidence, that German troops did this in World War I.
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  14. @Dmitry
    Well I can't vote for Trump, but I would have voted for him if I could. But let's just imagine he had gone to diplomatic academy (and paid attention in the lessons there - ok, we're going into science fiction): it would make his agenda a lot easier to pass, and they would be passed in a less watered-down version than they will be now that he needlessly stirs up additional resistance to it.

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?
     

    What I am saying about this imaginary Trump who would be possessed with better diplomatic skills - is that he would be still Trump (not Romney), but without making as many unforced errors as the untrained Trump. The unforced errors like today's create additional resistance and ill-will to his immigration agenda (it would have such resistance and ill-will anyway, but there's no need to add to it). Adding additional resistance to his immigration agenda simply results (ceteris paribus) in it being further watered down if/when it passes.
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  15. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    You should’ve thought some more before posting. Zzzzinnng!!!

    Read More
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  16. @Anonymous
    Is this the first time the Madman Theory has been applied to domestic policy?

    I can get on board with this, but on the other hand I don’t want to use pat analogies based off of previous Presidents. No offense to you.

    Trump, if successful with his end goal, is going to be studied for ages for his ability to succeed.

    I prefer the term “Thousand Hazy Paths”.

    Read More
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  17. It’s plain as the nose on your face! Bad dirt on one side, good dirt on the other.

    If that picture doesn’t convince people of the truth of your “magic dirt” theory, Steve, then nothing will!!!!

    Read More
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  18. @Clyde
    What are the Haitians cooking with if their part of the island has been so deforested? A few years back I read they were digging up old tree roots and burning them. My theory is that the US and international aid is shipping in kerosene and propane for cooking. Propane being distributed via the 20lb cylinders we have on our BBQ grills. You hook up the cylinder to a two burner cook stove. As far as immigrant quality the Haitians rank just above Somalians and Sudanese but are not Muslims.

    What are the Haitians cooking with if their part of the island has been so deforested?

    I don’t know either, but there’s always dried dung. People all over the world have used it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Dried dung? Makes sense. The place is a shithole.
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  19. @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    Imagine how much more Singapore and Hong Kong would be flourishing if they hadn't cut down all their tropical rain forests like Haiti did having replaced them with pavement urbanization and skyscrapers.

    Tragically Deforested Singapore

    http://www.changiairport.com/content/dam/cag/5-airport-experience/3-services-facilities/free_singapore_tour_900.jpg

    Thin, I don’t think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Ah, not a gum-chewer, then.
    , @Escher
    Safe and sterile.
    , @Laugh Track

    I don’t think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.
     
    Ah, then, kind of like the Welsh village that The Prisoner ended up in. Hmmm.
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  20. @Dmitry
    Well I can't vote for Trump, but I would have voted for him if I could. But let's just imagine he had gone to diplomatic academy (and paid attention in the lessons there - ok, we're going into science fiction): it would make his agenda a lot easier to pass, and they would be passed in a less watered-down version than they will be now that he needlessly stirs up additional resistance to it.

    it would make his agenda a lot easier to pass

    That’s not close to being true, in any country. It’s especially untrue here. You must have missed the memo where Democratic strategists were openly saying that retaining as many Dreamers as possible now is how they’re going to win elections later. We’re not facing reasonable people who make their own decisions and are waiting for the right turn of phrase. Politicians are generally the satraps of powerful interests, and in ths case the powerful are pretty clear about wanting us to die out. Our mass media agonize over every non-Palestinian Muslim who stubs his toe, as the same media refuse to report on white women who are raped in public or tortured to death. But Trump would overturn a multi-billion dollar intercontinental plan if he said “please.” No, he would not.

    Read More
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  21. @Buffalo Joe
    Thin, I don't think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.

    Ah, not a gum-chewer, then.

    Read More
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  22. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    Dmitry said

    …why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance…

    I believe he is naive. He is not a politician. He thinks people like him and they won’t betray him. He thinks they’ll do what he asks. He doesn’t think they’ll run straight to the media and say “He said this and he said that”. He is quite a simple man trying to deal with lying, cheating scumbags. It must be gruelling.

    Read More
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  23. @Jack Hanson
    "Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!"

    Steve that you?

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?

    What I am saying about this imaginary Trump who would be possessed with better diplomatic skills – is that he would be still Trump (not Romney), but without making as many unforced errors as the untrained Trump. The unforced errors like today’s create additional resistance and ill-will to his immigration agenda (it would have such resistance and ill-will anyway, but there’s no need to add to it). Adding additional resistance to his immigration agenda simply results (ceteris paribus) in it being further watered down if/when it passes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Concern Troll
    I too am concerned.
    , @Seamus Padraig
    The point, asking politely would not make the system any more likely to pass a Trump-like agenda. It's just not in their interests.
    , @J.Ross
    The only "error" would be failing in the overall mission. These sophomoric inbreds don't get to suckerpunch us, get us fired, torch our cars, call us Nazis and then turn around and demand that we follow a million niceties which do not apply to them.
    , @Jack Hanson
    *hand wringing intensifies*
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  24. this may have set them back a bit

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Thank you for that. Such a chilling read. Makes one wonder what Haiti might have become had it maintained even a tiny nucleus of whites. Voodoo, AIDS, endless boatloads of illegal aliens. That's about all Haiti has to show for 200+ years of all-black rule of an all-black island.
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  25. @Dmitry

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?
     

    What I am saying about this imaginary Trump who would be possessed with better diplomatic skills - is that he would be still Trump (not Romney), but without making as many unforced errors as the untrained Trump. The unforced errors like today's create additional resistance and ill-will to his immigration agenda (it would have such resistance and ill-will anyway, but there's no need to add to it). Adding additional resistance to his immigration agenda simply results (ceteris paribus) in it being further watered down if/when it passes.

    I too am concerned.

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    • LOL: reiner Tor
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  26. @Dmitry

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?
     

    What I am saying about this imaginary Trump who would be possessed with better diplomatic skills - is that he would be still Trump (not Romney), but without making as many unforced errors as the untrained Trump. The unforced errors like today's create additional resistance and ill-will to his immigration agenda (it would have such resistance and ill-will anyway, but there's no need to add to it). Adding additional resistance to his immigration agenda simply results (ceteris paribus) in it being further watered down if/when it passes.

    The point, asking politely would not make the system any more likely to pass a Trump-like agenda. It’s just not in their interests.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The Overton Window just made a massive lurch to the right today.

    The left cannot deny that much of the Third World is a shithole. They can blame it on YT's colonialism, but that dog ain't gonna hunt when you have the stunning economic growth in brutally colonized Southeast Asia.

    The next trick must be making the left defend the reasons why YT must become a minority in all of his homelands. But at the same time Israel can build a border wall, inject infiltrators with contraceptives, subsidize Jewish fertility and tax Arab fertility by restricting the housing supply.
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  27. @Buffalo Joe
    Thin, I don't think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.

    Safe and sterile.

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  28. @Buffalo Joe
    Thin, I don't think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.

    I don’t think I have ever wandered around in a country where we felt so safe. No street beggars, no visible homeless, polite people everywhere.

    Ah, then, kind of like the Welsh village that The Prisoner ended up in. Hmmm.

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  29. By calling Haiti a shithole Trump is merely stating what any sane person understands. This causes the elite to clutch it’s pearls but resonates with the masses of white people. People are sick of false realities and euphemisms

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  30. Worth noting that when Bernie and other delusional socialists point to their model socialist utopias they point to Denmark which, like Norway, is a tiny, overwhelmingly white, monocultural capitalist country just like the massive multicultural non-white, socialist country they want.

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  31. @Seamus Padraig
    The point, asking politely would not make the system any more likely to pass a Trump-like agenda. It's just not in their interests.

    The Overton Window just made a massive lurch to the right today.

    The left cannot deny that much of the Third World is a shithole. They can blame it on YT’s colonialism, but that dog ain’t gonna hunt when you have the stunning economic growth in brutally colonized Southeast Asia.

    The next trick must be making the left defend the reasons why YT must become a minority in all of his homelands. But at the same time Israel can build a border wall, inject infiltrators with contraceptives, subsidize Jewish fertility and tax Arab fertility by restricting the housing supply.

    Read More
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  32. @Dmitry

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?
     

    What I am saying about this imaginary Trump who would be possessed with better diplomatic skills - is that he would be still Trump (not Romney), but without making as many unforced errors as the untrained Trump. The unforced errors like today's create additional resistance and ill-will to his immigration agenda (it would have such resistance and ill-will anyway, but there's no need to add to it). Adding additional resistance to his immigration agenda simply results (ceteris paribus) in it being further watered down if/when it passes.

    The only “error” would be failing in the overall mission. These sophomoric inbreds don’t get to suckerpunch us, get us fired, torch our cars, call us Nazis and then turn around and demand that we follow a million niceties which do not apply to them.

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  33. @Clyde
    What are the Haitians cooking with if their part of the island has been so deforested? A few years back I read they were digging up old tree roots and burning them. My theory is that the US and international aid is shipping in kerosene and propane for cooking. Propane being distributed via the 20lb cylinders we have on our BBQ grills. You hook up the cylinder to a two burner cook stove. As far as immigrant quality the Haitians rank just above Somalians and Sudanese but are not Muslims.

    As far as immigrant quality the Haitians rank just above Somalians and Sudanese but are not Muslims.
    —–
    It’d be interested in an exploration of this topic actually. I think that Montreal would be a hellhole if the above were true. Montreal would certainly be a much, much worse place to live if the population of haitians was replaced by somalis and/or south-sudanese.

    The south-florida haitians can be really, really low grade so maybe those are the ones most ppl here are thinking of. I’m guessing the typical black haitian in south-florida is the IQ72 type. Regional variation maybe ?

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    • Replies: @Clyde
    The barriers to entry for a Haitian attempting to enter and remain in Montreal are higher than South Florida. So Montreal-Quebec will get the better ones and smarter ones. The Florida obstacle course is easier to get past.
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  34. @anon
    What are the Haitians cooking with if their part of the island has been so deforested?

    I don't know either, but there's always dried dung. People all over the world have used it.

    Dried dung? Makes sense. The place is a shithole.

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  35. @mark in atlanta
    this may have set them back a bit

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_Haiti_massacre

    Thank you for that. Such a chilling read. Makes one wonder what Haiti might have become had it maintained even a tiny nucleus of whites. Voodoo, AIDS, endless boatloads of illegal aliens. That’s about all Haiti has to show for 200+ years of all-black rule of an all-black island.

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  36. @Jack Hanson
    You know, I'd probably ease up on mocking some of you if you would just admit you respond like hysterical women being gaslit by an enemy media, but nah.

    Instead you'll just take a break from your posting career before running back here with I KNEW TRUMP WOULD BETRAY US the ninth time the media tells you an amnesty is right around the corner.

    Instead you’ll just take a break from your posting career before running back here

    my posting career is well in hand

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    • Agree: Jack Hanson
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  37. @ogunsiron
    As far as immigrant quality the Haitians rank just above Somalians and Sudanese but are not Muslims.
    -----
    It'd be interested in an exploration of this topic actually. I think that Montreal would be a hellhole if the above were true. Montreal would certainly be a much, much worse place to live if the population of haitians was replaced by somalis and/or south-sudanese.

    The south-florida haitians can be really, really low grade so maybe those are the ones most ppl here are thinking of. I'm guessing the typical black haitian in south-florida is the IQ72 type. Regional variation maybe ?

    The barriers to entry for a Haitian attempting to enter and remain in Montreal are higher than South Florida. So Montreal-Quebec will get the better ones and smarter ones. The Florida obstacle course is easier to get past.

    Read More
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  38. @Dmitry

    “Jeeze, if only he looked like Wise Patrician Granddad like Romney!”

    Steve that you?
     

    What I am saying about this imaginary Trump who would be possessed with better diplomatic skills - is that he would be still Trump (not Romney), but without making as many unforced errors as the untrained Trump. The unforced errors like today's create additional resistance and ill-will to his immigration agenda (it would have such resistance and ill-will anyway, but there's no need to add to it). Adding additional resistance to his immigration agenda simply results (ceteris paribus) in it being further watered down if/when it passes.

    *hand wringing intensifies*

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  39. @J.Ross
    DR was one of a few places to welcome Jewish refugees from Hitlerite Europe before it was cool (along with Franco's Spain, which granted full citizenship). Funny how that isn't mentioned more often. Of course, that group of European immigrants would be arriving far too late to affect the general pattern.
    DR's had a Day of the Rope (their own term) in which they "corrected" what illegal immigration from Haiti was occuring. It was very effective and DR's I meet nowadays are unabashedly proud of this effectiveness.

    DR’s had a Day of the Rope (their own term) in which they “corrected” what illegal immigration from Haiti was occuring.

    The more recent legalistic version hardly provoked any ripples and was barely noticed (by the MSM at least).

    I remember being surprised at the time by the absence of outcry this law generated, as would have been the case had a white country enacted a similar measure.

    Could it be emulated?

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  40. @Jack Hanson
    You know, I'd probably ease up on mocking some of you if you would just admit you respond like hysterical women being gaslit by an enemy media, but nah.

    Instead you'll just take a break from your posting career before running back here with I KNEW TRUMP WOULD BETRAY US the ninth time the media tells you an amnesty is right around the corner.

    Right on! Earlier this week they were all hysterical about Trump cucking immigration. We tried to tell them not so, chill out. Like you say just like a bunch of hysterical women.

    Trump is the best thing ever for immigration restrictionist. Issue is we need more in Congress. He’s getting hammered and few are defending him.

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    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Yeah, these are the same people who, when asked to name their solutions, demand that Trump basically mount gunnery turrets like those in Aliens on the SWB or he's 'cucking', a term rendered down to nothing around this place.
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  41. @syonredux

    The Parsley Massacre (Spanish: el corte "the cutting";[4] Haitian Creole: kout kouto-a "the stabbing"[5]) was carried out in October 1937 against Haitians living in the Dominican Republic. It was carried out by Dominican Army troops on the direct orders of Dictator Rafael Trujillo. Haitian President Élie Lescot put the death toll at 12,168; in 1953, the Haitian historian Jean Price-Mars cited 12,136 deaths and 2,419 injuries. In 1975, Joaquín Balaguer, the Dominican Republic's interim Foreign Minister at the time of the massacre, put the number of dead at 17,000. Other estimates compiled by the Dominican historian Bernardo Vega were as high as 35,000.[6]
     

    Rafael Trujillo, a proponent of anti-Haitianism, made his intentions towards the Haitian community clear in a short speech he gave 2 October 1937 at a dance in his honor in Dajabón. He said,

    For some months, I have traveled and traversed the border in every sense of the word. I have seen, investigated, and inquired about the needs of the population. To the Dominicans who were complaining of the depredations by Haitians living among them, thefts of cattle, provisions, fruits, etc., and were thus prevented from enjoying in peace the products of their labor, I have responded, 'I will fix this.' And we have already begun to remedy the situation. Three hundred Haitians are now dead in Bánica. This remedy will continue.
    [9]

    Trujillo reportedly was acting in response to reports of Haitians stealing cattle and crops from Dominican borderland residents. According to some sources, the massacre killed an estimated 20,000 Haitians[10][11] living in the Dominican border—clearly at Trujillo's direct order. However, as shown in the table below and mentioned above, estimates of the number of victims vary widely. For approximately five days, from 2 October 1937 to 8 October 1937, Dominican troops killed Haitians with rifles, machetes, clubs, knives, and bayonets. Haitian children were reportedly thrown in the air and caught by soldiers' bayonets, then thrown on their mothers' corpses.[12] Some died while trying to flee to Haiti across the Artibonite River, which has often been the site of bloody conflict between the two nations.[13]

    Lauren Derby claims that a majority of those who died were born in the Dominican Republic and belonged to well-established Haitian communities in the borderlands.[14] However, it is difficult for anyone to ascertain a victim's place of birth, especially considering that, in most cases, their identities are unknown, and their births may not have been officially recorded. Furthermore, Haiti has historically awarded citizenship by Jus sanguinis, making anyone with a Haitian parent a Haitian citizen, whereas from as early as 1929 until 2014, the Dominican Republic followed a restricted Jus soli citizenship policy, which excluded from this privilege illegal residents and anyone not having legal permanent residency status.[15][16]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsley_massacre



    Rafael Trujillo





    https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTE5NTU2MzE1OTQyMzg5MjU5/rafael-trujillo-39891-1-402.jpg

    Haitian children were reportedly thrown in the air and caught by soldiers’ bayonets

    That assertion has been used to describe enemy behavior since the invention of the bayonet. (Before that, presumably, soldiers were catching enemy infants on their pikes, and before that, pile.) It was asserted, without any evidence, that German troops did this in World War I.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Between Eisenstein's pram and the brat-defenestration in City of Life and Death (itself a better-executed iteration of the Nanking Holocaust Porn genre, which regularly featured soldiers cutting a fetus out of a mother) it seems safe to say that the endangered or thoughtlessly snuffed baby was the favorite emotional indictment of Imperialism by communist propaganda, and equally safe to say that none of this stuff ever happened. (Pretty sure Eisenstein's Strike also had a mother failing to protect her child.) As always the Norks have the loudest and clumsiest material.
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  42. @Harry Baldwin
    Haitian children were reportedly thrown in the air and caught by soldiers’ bayonets

    That assertion has been used to describe enemy behavior since the invention of the bayonet. (Before that, presumably, soldiers were catching enemy infants on their pikes, and before that, pile.) It was asserted, without any evidence, that German troops did this in World War I.

    Between Eisenstein’s pram and the brat-defenestration in City of Life and Death (itself a better-executed iteration of the Nanking Holocaust Porn genre, which regularly featured soldiers cutting a fetus out of a mother) it seems safe to say that the endangered or thoughtlessly snuffed baby was the favorite emotional indictment of Imperialism by communist propaganda, and equally safe to say that none of this stuff ever happened. (Pretty sure Eisenstein’s Strike also had a mother failing to protect her child.) As always the Norks have the loudest and clumsiest material.

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  43. @Ed
    Right on! Earlier this week they were all hysterical about Trump cucking immigration. We tried to tell them not so, chill out. Like you say just like a bunch of hysterical women.

    Trump is the best thing ever for immigration restrictionist. Issue is we need more in Congress. He’s getting hammered and few are defending him.

    Yeah, these are the same people who, when asked to name their solutions, demand that Trump basically mount gunnery turrets like those in Aliens on the SWB or he’s ‘cucking’, a term rendered down to nothing around this place.

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  44. Someone should tell Jared Diamond that there are no “natural experiments”. If you want to tease-out causation you have exactly two choices:

    1) Make predictions based on system models and then take a system, that you can afford to mess with — divide it into a control group (null hypothesis) and treatment groups (for each of the causal hypotheses). Take statistics. Adjust your model(s). In machine learning, this is known as “labeled data” or “supervised learning”.

    2) In the absence of systems you can mess with, take the data you have and for each competing _whole_ system model, compress the data — losslessly. The model one that compresses the data best is most likely to yield accurate predictions (Solomonoff Induction). In machine learning this is known as unsupervised learning or, ahem, Solomonoff Induction.

    Of course, it isn’t just Jared Diamond that needs to be BTFO’d on this kind of thing…

    http://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2017/07/ockhams-guillotine.html

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  45. @Dmitry
    Regardless of the obvious fact that Haiti is (socioeconomically) a 'shithole', why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language. Tourettes syndrome? In Russia they say "think twice — say once". Or more extremely in China - "A dog will run around three times before lying down; a person should think thirty-five times before speaking out loud."

    why does Trump have to idiotically undermine his stance with this language

    People from different cultures speak and think differently – you know – like Chinese, Russians and -New Yorkers, for example. That’s what makes life colorful – and interesting: all those little differences -relx – and rejoice human cultural (bio)diversity!

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