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From the New York Times:

Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale
By SYDNEY EMBER SEPT. 17, 2017

From a loft in San Francisco in 1967, a 21-year-old named Jann S. Wenner started a magazine that would become the counterculture bible for baby boomers. Rolling Stone defined cool, cultivated literary icons and produced star-making covers that were such coveted real estate they inspired a song.

But the headwinds buffeting the publishing industry, and some costly strategic missteps, have steadily taken a financial toll on Rolling Stone, and a botched story three years ago about an unproven gang rape at the University of Virginia badly bruised the magazine’s journalistic reputation.

That “gang rape at the University of Virginiastill remains “unproven” due to Rolling Stone’s having botched journalistic methodology. If Rolling Stone had crossed all the T’s and dotted all the i’s, Haven Monahan would be behind bars right now.

Also, catfishing is just a boring hobby of hicks who don’t live anyplace scenic enough for flyfishing. Catfishing has nothing to do with this “gang rape” in Charlottesville.

And so, after a half-century reign that propelled him into the realm of the rock stars and celebrities who graced his covers, Mr. Wenner is putting his company’s controlling stake in Rolling Stone up for sale, relinquishing his hold on a publication he has led since its founding. …

Rolling Stone suffered a devastating blow to its reputation when it retracted a debunked 2014 article about a gang rape at the University of Virginia. A damning report on the story by the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism cited fundamental journalistic failures.

It wasn’t hate speech, it was “journalistic failures.” There’s a long report on it by the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism so you shouldn’t have an opinion on it unless you’ve read the entire report.

The article prompted three libel lawsuits against Rolling Stone, one of which led to a highly publicized trial last year that culminated with a federal jury awarding the plaintiff $3 million in damages.

Rolling Stone also settled with the fraternity that suffered a Kristallnacht of broken windows due to Rolling Stone’s hoax article for $1.65 million.

As far as I know, no one has ever been arrested for the Sabrina Rubin Erdely-inspired terrorist hate crime against the fraternity house.

Anyway, the important news is that the “gang rape at the University of Virginia” turned out to be a boring story about poor methodology.

 
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  1. One thing nice I will say about Jann Wenner is that he has aged extremely well.

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  2. Lagertha says:

    sheeesh

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  3. Gotta love those “star-making covers.”

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    • Replies: @Androgynous Misogynist
    Bob Dylan looks pretty good in that photo.
    , @Cagey Beast
    Justin Trudeau.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    S/he looks like half their cover models over the years.

    If you removed all the words except "Rolling Stone" and showed that to anyone born between 1901 and 2000, that person would automatically assume this is some rock star.

    Actually, he is a rock star.
    , @George
    Conspiracy theorist here. After the somewhat balanced bomber story, Rolling Stone was targeted for destruction by planting the Haven Honohan forcing its sale to internet richies. Similar to how Gawker was destroyed. Watch out Unz.

    BTW,

    Narrative issues? Google to flood Newsrooms with 1,000 journalists

    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/32581/61/
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  4. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT: Donald Glover cops to the existence of Oppression Pokemon Points

    http://deadline.com/2017/09/donald-glover-wins-emmy-best-actor-comedy-series-atlanta-fx-1202171369/

    Picking up his second Emmy of the night for Atlanta—the FX comedy series which he created, and in which he stars—Donald Glover thanked not only his loved ones and the city of Atlanta itself, but more surprisingly, President Donald Trump, “for making black people number one on the most oppressed list.” “He’s the reason I’m probably up here,” Glover said.

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    • Replies: @JerryC
    Hmmm. Haven't black people always been number one on the oppressed list?
    , @Ivy
    A brief look at the Emmy telecast was enough. There was a Greek Chorusy dude yelling out winner names as part of the show, with the exaggerated emphasis on middle initials, loud last names and all-around buffoonery. Don't imagine people will request a second act.
    , @Corn
    "but more surprisingly, President Donald Trump, “for making black people number one on the most oppressed list.”

    Uh oh. Blacks are Trump's most oppressed?

    The La Raza Legions and DACA Brigades won't like that.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @Buzz Mohawk
    Gotta love those "star-making covers."

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2013/07/rolling_stone_jahar_tsarnaev_boston_bomber_cover.jpg

    Bob Dylan looks pretty good in that photo.

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    • Replies: @Fidel the Seeker
    may his name echo in eternity

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bob Dylan)))))))))))))))))))))))
    , @Agnon Peregrinian
    Plastic surgery does wonders but not in this case. To give Dylan his new look they had to pay a contractor to do a search and "purchase" for a suitable body transplant. But I don't think they thought of improving the voice.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. When the rag endosed Hillary Clinton in 2016, it was just a matter of time. You knew it was curtains.

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  7. @Buzz Mohawk
    Gotta love those "star-making covers."

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2013/07/rolling_stone_jahar_tsarnaev_boston_bomber_cover.jpg

    Justin Trudeau.

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  8. Luke Lea says:

    An old journalist girlfriend of mine, Susan Lydon, helped Wenner found Rolling Stone. One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Did she make a fortune?
    , @res
    It is fascinating how often the hardcore sexists actually turn out to be darlings of the left. Exhibit A being Slick Willie and his women.
    , @whoever

    Susan Lydon

     

    Another famous and influential person I never heard of. Thanks for bringing her up.

    One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”
     
    Well, there's a reason there's such a thing as feminism. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, and everyone gets blown to feathers and flinders.
    , @bartok

    when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”
     
    Gay men are quite comfortable telling straight women what to do, e.g. telling them what to wear (fashion industry).
    , @AndrewR
    Breaking news: a liberal said something sexist 50 years ago. Stop the presses!
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  9. Hopefully it’s bought by a mysterious holding company and imperceptibly becomes an Alt-Right media outlet that has nothing bad to say about Putin.

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    • LOL: Frau Katze
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  10. Mr. Anon says:

    But the headwinds buffeting the publishing industry, and some costly strategic missteps, have steadily taken a financial toll on Rolling Stone, and a botched story three years ago about an unproven gang rape at the University of Virginia badly bruised the magazine’s journalistic reputation.

    But, to be fair to Rolling Stone, a lot of things that are untrue, like the UVA gang-rape story, are unproven.

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    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I'm not surprised that the NYTimes would do this, but from a legal standpoint -- it actually continues to push this idea that a rape happened/may have happened. It's purposely misleading and it continues to slander the fraternity by creating a cloud over them, when it has been established that the accusations were false.

    This doesn't seem like it should be acceptable... is it?
    , @Olorin
    QED, and well done, sir.

    Of course "racially motivated gang rape hoax" is too close to the truth for the Old Grey Hag(anah).

    I'm groovin' (as some put it) on our host's retweet of Sabrina Rubin's 11/23/2014 reply to Jeffrey Goldberg. Those former Daily Pennsylvanian editors stick together, by gum.

    See, that's the problem with the Samizdat Right, whose guys are judged unfunny when judged by the 20th century Borscht Belt or Challahwood or Bube Toob standard.

    But that retweet by our host is absolute comedy gold. All timing, and the material's already there.

    Has it really been 15 years since this?:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/28/meet-the-new-yorker-s-jeffrey-goldberg/print

    Whose lead itself includes an enduring media myth (Hearst, Cuba, war):

    https://mediamythalert.wordpress.com/tag/hearst/
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  11. JerryC says:
    @Anonymous
    OT: Donald Glover cops to the existence of Oppression Pokemon Points

    http://deadline.com/2017/09/donald-glover-wins-emmy-best-actor-comedy-series-atlanta-fx-1202171369/

    Picking up his second Emmy of the night for Atlanta—the FX comedy series which he created, and in which he stars—Donald Glover thanked not only his loved ones and the city of Atlanta itself, but more surprisingly, President Donald Trump, “for making black people number one on the most oppressed list.” “He’s the reason I’m probably up here,” Glover said.

    Hmmm. Haven’t black people always been number one on the oppressed list?

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    • Replies: @Not Raul
    >> Haven’t black people always been number one on the oppressed list? <<

    Vat ahbaut zee jooz?
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  12. @Luke Lea
    An old journalist girlfriend of mine, Susan Lydon, helped Wenner found Rolling Stone. One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was "chick work."

    Did she make a fortune?

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  13. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Those phrases caught my eye too. Okay maybe Rolling Stone made a boo-boo, can’t you people just leave them alone? So maybe Jackie made a mistake or two–traumatized rape victims will do that–so what, are you perfect? No one’s perfect; stop judging.

    And right back down the rabbit hole they go, taking as many readers as they can along with them. Sometimes I almost think they live down there.

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    • Replies: @lavoisier
    They do live down there. They only surface occasionally to deal with the real world and reality under extreme duress.
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  14. res says:
    @Luke Lea
    An old journalist girlfriend of mine, Susan Lydon, helped Wenner found Rolling Stone. One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was "chick work."

    It is fascinating how often the hardcore sexists actually turn out to be darlings of the left. Exhibit A being Slick Willie and his women.

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    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”

    It is fascinating how often the hardcore sexists actually turn out to be darlings of the left. Exhibit A being Slick Willie and his women.

    You hardly had to be a hardcore sexist to say that in 1967.

    , @Robert Hume
    Another exhibit A of course is Jack Kennedy who slept with a different woman every night while Jackie was more or less exiled from the White House to the Kennedy compound for months. All this covered up by his friends in government and the press.

    Most Democrat presidents make Republican presidents look like saints.
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  15. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Newsweek, NY Daily News, Gawker, Rolling Stone… plus many more sold or auctioned or just folded.

    The people are waking up to the reality of weaponized media.

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    • Replies: @jim jones
    The Washington Post is growing:

    http://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/12/the-profitable-washington-post-adding-more-than-five-dozen-journalists-004900
    , @MarcB.
    "The people are waking up to the reality of weaponized media."

    Weaponized media of the 2010's is the E Network. Outlets like Rolling Stone have already performed their role in Culture Creation. If they went on a permanent vacation, it wouldn't matter in the grand scheme. Besides, it hasn't been relevant to youth culture since the the late 1970's. In the 1980's it showcased Top 40 music, classic rockers, yuppie lifestyles and lefty journalists appealing to aging hippies.

    SPIN caught on with Gen X audience they neglected, and the readership and impact of RS has never been the same. By 2000's there were too many other options catering to the young music fans, and their aging subscriber base was diminishing. Wenner was too enamored with his own reflection to take the money and run back when the getting was good.
    , @Zach
    And the Village Voice is shutting down its print edition. The man in the White House must be getting some satisfaction from that.
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  16. @res
    It is fascinating how often the hardcore sexists actually turn out to be darlings of the left. Exhibit A being Slick Willie and his women.

    One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”

    It is fascinating how often the hardcore sexists actually turn out to be darlings of the left. Exhibit A being Slick Willie and his women.

    You hardly had to be a hardcore sexist to say that in 1967.

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  17. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    unproven

    Ms. Ember just couldn’t bring herself to write “disproven”, could she?

    NYT epistemology applied to unchosen white male bodies.

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  18. Polynikes says:

    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

    Yes, that is the fundamental question of (print) media. How do they expect to make money when they constantly attack their readership, encourage their dispossession via wealth transfer, and discourage their productive breeding? A founder and shareholder like Wenner has no reason to focus on quarterly results at the expense of the generational picture. He may be homosexually inclined but he also has 6 children.

    How many Newsweeks is it going to take going belly up to realize that anti-White propaganda is bad business? It may make money in languages such as Chinese, but again, that is really dumb. It's dumb on the scale of if the American Indians mass produced Manifest Destiny pamphlets because the European settlers paid them to.
    , @Abe

    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.
     
    Mexicans may not be big on print subscriptions, but they are pretty solid rock n' roll fans. GUNS N ROSES (the last, great rock n' roll band- sorry, NIRVANA and PEARL JAM, doesn't matter how many records you sold in the day when you so openly hated all your straight, white, male fans) launched a big reunion tour last year, and over half the comments to all the concert clips posted on YOUTUBE are either in Spanish or Portuguese. Rock is probably bigger overall in Latin America than it is in the US right now. So as a lot of us have been saying for years now, the browning of America may actually lead to the revival of a lot of 20th Century white culture, as Mexican-Americans (who anyway intermarry at a good clip with the white working class) have tastes in music and movies (comic book-based blowups being pretty popular right) fairly close to the non-SWPL mainstream.
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  19. @Buzz Mohawk
    Gotta love those "star-making covers."

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2013/07/rolling_stone_jahar_tsarnaev_boston_bomber_cover.jpg

    S/he looks like half their cover models over the years.

    If you removed all the words except “Rolling Stone” and showed that to anyone born between 1901 and 2000, that person would automatically assume this is some rock star.

    Actually, he is a rock star.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    I believe they were going for Jim Morrison.
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  20. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT: Derb has a short piece on country singer Jim Reeves and a statue of him that “may have to go”.

    Derb does not mention that in addition to ZA, Reeves was very, very popular with black audiences in a number of African countries.

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  21. whoever says: • Website
    @Luke Lea
    An old journalist girlfriend of mine, Susan Lydon, helped Wenner found Rolling Stone. One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was "chick work."

    Susan Lydon

    Another famous and influential person I never heard of. Thanks for bringing her up.

    One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”

    Well, there’s a reason there’s such a thing as feminism. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, and everyone gets blown to feathers and flinders.

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    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Apparently she was married at that time so Luke must have been "just a friend".

    Again, we see that a radical feminist is a broken woman taking her revenge on society.
    , @pyrrhus
    It had nothing to do with sexism. Since when does the owner clean up after the employees?
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  22. @Androgynous Misogynist
    Bob Dylan looks pretty good in that photo.

    may his name echo in eternity

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Bob Dylan)))))))))))))))))))))))

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  23. Broski says:

    So, Sydney Ember, was it you or your editor who decided to term the rape hoax “unproven”?

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    They never lose an opportunity to deceive, do they?
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  24. Ivy says:
    @Anonymous
    OT: Donald Glover cops to the existence of Oppression Pokemon Points

    http://deadline.com/2017/09/donald-glover-wins-emmy-best-actor-comedy-series-atlanta-fx-1202171369/

    Picking up his second Emmy of the night for Atlanta—the FX comedy series which he created, and in which he stars—Donald Glover thanked not only his loved ones and the city of Atlanta itself, but more surprisingly, President Donald Trump, “for making black people number one on the most oppressed list.” “He’s the reason I’m probably up here,” Glover said.

    A brief look at the Emmy telecast was enough. There was a Greek Chorusy dude yelling out winner names as part of the show, with the exaggerated emphasis on middle initials, loud last names and all-around buffoonery. Don’t imagine people will request a second act.

    Read More
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  25. Veracitor says:

    I feel pity for mainstream media writers who cannot spell the simple word “h o a x”. Just think how they would all sigh with relief, maybe even crack their knuckles or interlace their fingers and stretch their arms over their heads for a moment, then lean back in their chairs with satisfaction, if they could just master their recalcitrant hands to type those four little letters into their stories.

    Separately, I suspect all those Rolling Stone covers reflected Jann Wenner’s unique aesthetic perspective. I just wonder how selling the magazine will affect Wenner’s six children plus his ex-wife and his current husband. I was under the impression that the actual ownership arrangement for Wenner’s media empire was a type of syndicate.

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    • Replies: @StillCARealist
    Dear Heaven, I just clicked on the Daily Mail and read about more of the filth that passes for today's popular culture. This Wenner character is quite a piece of work. He's single-handedly screwing up 6 children for life. there's a pic there of one of his offspring who looks like a young meth addict already.
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  26. Song from Dr Hook – On the Cover of the Rolling Stone:

    Cover of the Rolling Stone

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  27. *CTRL-F for “Charlottesville”*
    *nothing*
    *closes tab*

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  28. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Mr. Anon

    But the headwinds buffeting the publishing industry, and some costly strategic missteps, have steadily taken a financial toll on Rolling Stone, and a botched story three years ago about an unproven gang rape at the University of Virginia badly bruised the magazine’s journalistic reputation.
     
    But, to be fair to Rolling Stone, a lot of things that are untrue, like the UVA gang-rape story, are unproven.

    I’m not surprised that the NYTimes would do this, but from a legal standpoint — it actually continues to push this idea that a rape happened/may have happened. It’s purposely misleading and it continues to slander the fraternity by creating a cloud over them, when it has been established that the accusations were false.

    This doesn’t seem like it should be acceptable… is it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    The Gray Lady's quality converges with that of Gawker and Rolling Stone, and its fate shall be the same. It may not get sued out of existence, but it's not going to be a meaningful institution for much longer. Whatever prestige its employees think they derive from their association with the the brand will be fleeting; indeed, it may become a blemish.
    , @Opinionator
    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?
    , @Anon
    This is the same rag which posted a story two years after the Mizzou fracas insisting that every single detail of the race-hate hoax bonanza was genuine. Even the infamous poop swastika, which you have to think about for only a moment to realise how ridiculous it is. Even after the (negro) student-body president got caught out fabricating his stories. None of that matters.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/university-of-missouri-enrollment-protests-fallout.html

    Of course negroes are the victims of declining enrolment.


    Tyler Morris, a white student from St. Louis, said he was afraid of being stereotyped as a bigot if he went to Missouri. So he decided to go to Missouri Valley College, “just down the road” in Marshall.
     

    When she heard that a swastika had been smeared in feces on a dormitory bathroom at Missouri, she decided not to apply. She enrolled instead at Truman State University in Kirksville, Mo., where she will be a sophomore this coming year. “Looking for colleges is intimidating just by itself,” she said. “Adding anti-Semitism on top of that was just too much.”
     
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  29. So, will it be a fire sale?

    Perhaps Jann held on too long!

    Read More
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  30. Broski says:
    @Anonymous
    I'm not surprised that the NYTimes would do this, but from a legal standpoint -- it actually continues to push this idea that a rape happened/may have happened. It's purposely misleading and it continues to slander the fraternity by creating a cloud over them, when it has been established that the accusations were false.

    This doesn't seem like it should be acceptable... is it?

    The Gray Lady’s quality converges with that of Gawker and Rolling Stone, and its fate shall be the same. It may not get sued out of existence, but it’s not going to be a meaningful institution for much longer. Whatever prestige its employees think they derive from their association with the the brand will be fleeting; indeed, it may become a blemish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @King Baeksu
    The NYT is now trying to convince its good-white readers that affirmative action means giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to educate "Dreamers" from Kenya:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/affirmative-action-college.html

    They also had the cheek to suggest that the University of New Mexico isn't "diverse" enough, despite being over 50% Hispanic, and that standardized testing is a "system of segregation":

    The elite college population will reflect the country’s overall demographics only when schools “blow up the system” of admissions, said Sheryll Cashin, a professor of law at Georgetown University and an expert on affirmative action. She proposed eliminating the consideration of standardized test scores and ending legacy admissions for the children of alumni.

    “The elite schools are participating in and propagating the system of segregation,” Ms. Cashin said. Instead, she added, they ought to be willing to admit high-achieving students from high schools that offer few or no Advanced Placement courses.
     
    , @Barnard
    I wish that was the case, but as long as the elites consider it the "Paper of Record" it will continue to have an outsized place in shaping news and influencing our culture. When a certain segment of society doesn't even want to know the truth in a story like this or considers it "fake, but accurate" like a Dan Rather story, there will always be a market for reporting like this.
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  31. Anonym says:
    @Polynikes
    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don't want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

    Yes, that is the fundamental question of (print) media. How do they expect to make money when they constantly attack their readership, encourage their dispossession via wealth transfer, and discourage their productive breeding? A founder and shareholder like Wenner has no reason to focus on quarterly results at the expense of the generational picture. He may be homosexually inclined but he also has 6 children.

    How many Newsweeks is it going to take going belly up to realize that anti-White propaganda is bad business? It may make money in languages such as Chinese, but again, that is really dumb. It’s dumb on the scale of if the American Indians mass produced Manifest Destiny pamphlets because the European settlers paid them to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    There are hundreds of billionaires, and a few dozen with a net worth 25 Billion +. They can easily subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle for thousands of journalists, for years on end. And recall that in many countries such as the UK, the mass media is outright funded by the government via tax and debt. CultMarx has never been profitable.

    Laurene Powell (Steve) Jobs just bought the Atlantic, and completely escaped notice. Apple/Disney can't write off lobbying as an expense, but their largest shareholder can legally lose millions on an unprofitable publication and deduct said losses from their tax return.

    Print media died with the creation of Craigslist, ironically founded by OldMarx, classified ads are the main source of revenue. For magazines, we are probably talking about tobacco, alcohol and car ads, all of which are in steep decline.
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  32. @Anonymous
    I'm not surprised that the NYTimes would do this, but from a legal standpoint -- it actually continues to push this idea that a rape happened/may have happened. It's purposely misleading and it continues to slander the fraternity by creating a cloud over them, when it has been established that the accusations were false.

    This doesn't seem like it should be acceptable... is it?

    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Do we really have to start at Square One with you? The rapists were fictional. Fictional. Do you know what the word fictional means??

    Fictional rapists--even ones as clever and cunning as Haven Monahan--do not commit genuine rapes.

    Now, if you're seriously claiming that you don't know that the rapists were fictional, all you have to do is review the work of Robby Soave, Richard Bradley, and, um, Steve Sailer, who will tell you all you need to know. Which, in your case--unless you're just trolling--is a lot.

    , @Coemgen
    Accusations are not proof. Accusations are not even evidence. Where is the evidence/proof that a rape occurred?
    , @dr kill
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAEHQ4As0xw
    , @Jack D
    Truth is a defense to a libel claim. So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free instead of owing her $3 million. If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense.

    But they didn't even try (for obvious reasons) and fell back to more defensible lines such as lack of malice (reckless disregard for whether the story was true, which is a very high threshold to breach). And even those lines didn't hold - not only was the rape claim implicitly not true but they had so little basis for thinking that it might have been true that it was reckless and actionable to print such a poorly sourced story.

    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo's favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.
    , @Frankie P
    The search for the perpetrators revealed that they were fictional characters, so the proof of the falsehood of the accusations and establishment of innocence through "trial by ordeal", which it seems is the only thing that will satisfy your demented thirst for some kind of perverse "justice", will never be found. By the way, what is the sound of one hand clapping?
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  33. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    I'm not surprised that the NYTimes would do this, but from a legal standpoint -- it actually continues to push this idea that a rape happened/may have happened. It's purposely misleading and it continues to slander the fraternity by creating a cloud over them, when it has been established that the accusations were false.

    This doesn't seem like it should be acceptable... is it?

    This is the same rag which posted a story two years after the Mizzou fracas insisting that every single detail of the race-hate hoax bonanza was genuine. Even the infamous poop swastika, which you have to think about for only a moment to realise how ridiculous it is. Even after the (negro) student-body president got caught out fabricating his stories. None of that matters.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/university-of-missouri-enrollment-protests-fallout.html

    Of course negroes are the victims of declining enrolment.

    Tyler Morris, a white student from St. Louis, said he was afraid of being stereotyped as a bigot if he went to Missouri. So he decided to go to Missouri Valley College, “just down the road” in Marshall.

    When she heard that a swastika had been smeared in feces on a dormitory bathroom at Missouri, she decided not to apply. She enrolled instead at Truman State University in Kirksville, Mo., where she will be a sophomore this coming year. “Looking for colleges is intimidating just by itself,” she said. “Adding anti-Semitism on top of that was just too much.”

    Read More
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  34. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Opinionator
    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?

    Do we really have to start at Square One with you? The rapists were fictional. Fictional. Do you know what the word fictional means??

    Fictional rapists–even ones as clever and cunning as Haven Monahan–do not commit genuine rapes.

    Now, if you’re seriously claiming that you don’t know that the rapists were fictional, all you have to do is review the work of Robby Soave, Richard Bradley, and, um, Steve Sailer, who will tell you all you need to know. Which, in your case–unless you’re just trolling–is a lot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Did a court of law or Rolling Stone or Erdely or Jackie ever conclude that the accusations were false?
    , @AndrewR
    Don't feed the trolls...
    , @Abe

    Which, in your case–unless you’re just trolling–is a lot.
     
    I've always had the lingering suspicion 'Opionator' (even the handle suggests a mechanical, man-meets-machine quality) to be nothing more than an artificial-intelligence experiment Ron has unleashed on us to get engineering feedback in real-time. TinyDuck being the next-gen full-natural language processing bot, Opionator- with all the cloying 'And why do you think that?'- the more back-to-basics, neo-ELIZA/pseudo-Rogerian Therapist bot.
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  35. @Anon
    Do we really have to start at Square One with you? The rapists were fictional. Fictional. Do you know what the word fictional means??

    Fictional rapists--even ones as clever and cunning as Haven Monahan--do not commit genuine rapes.

    Now, if you're seriously claiming that you don't know that the rapists were fictional, all you have to do is review the work of Robby Soave, Richard Bradley, and, um, Steve Sailer, who will tell you all you need to know. Which, in your case--unless you're just trolling--is a lot.

    Did a court of law or Rolling Stone or Erdely or Jackie ever conclude that the accusations were false?

    Read More
    • Troll: Broski, Forbes
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A jury decided that Rolling Stone had libeled Dean Eramo to the tune of $3 mil.
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  36. Twinkie says:

    Just imagine how differently it all would have turned out, if some fraternity man actually had sex with that young female liar at UVA!

    There was justice (of sorts) in the end, because there was no physical evidence. Yes, one can still be accused of rape even when there is no sexual encounter, but one can defend oneself much more easily in such a case.

    So, I repeat, young men, do NOT have sex with random, strange women. Meet and court a moral young woman and marry her first. But, failing that, at least get to know a woman for a good while before starting any physical intimacy.

    You don’t want to play fire with the crazy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bartok
    No, the best idea is to beat her to the courthouse. As soon as you get a bad vibe from a drunken hookup (unhappy text, etc.), immediately report her for rape in your college's Title IX venue.

    She was drunker than you, so she raped you. Easy.

    Amy Schumer wrote about something like that. Her college crush drunk-dialed her, she was stone sober, and she had sex with him while he was asleep / barely awake and completely drunk. It's in her memoir.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah. There's an app for that. It's called Fizzlr. You swipe left for your roommate to sleep with the girl you're getting to know or swipe right for her to stop calling you back.
    , @Jack D
    A number of the college "rape" cases involved long term couples and the rape allegations would sometimes surface months or even years after the alleged acts occurred, after a breakup or after the girl's parents or some feminist organization came into the picture. Aside from celibacy, the only way of protecting against such allegation is getting rid of the system of kangaroo trials and restoring the traditional burdens of proof that protect us against false accusations.
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  37. grapesoda says:

    Well, at least they mentioned it and acknowledged that the incident was an important factor in the magazine’s downfall. I’m surprised they mentioned it at all. Kinda like how, no one tried to dispute the authenticity of the Podesta emails. It just would have made them look worse.

    Read More
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  38. @Opinionator
    Did a court of law or Rolling Stone or Erdely or Jackie ever conclude that the accusations were false?

    A jury decided that Rolling Stone had libeled Dean Eramo to the tune of $3 mil.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Wasn't that outcome based primarily on a finding that the magazine's portrayal of Eramo was false?

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html

    I am as disgusted by RS and Rubin Erdely as you and others are. From the evidence I have seen reported, I conclude the story was an invention of Jackie and/or Rubin Erdely. I would actually like to be able say that it has been "established" as a falsehood. But can we cite any of the traditional sources for such a proposition?

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  39. That Haven Monahan remains a menace and casts a pall on all of society and society’s dopey daughters!

    If only our intrepid reporters hadn’t become so overly enthusiastic and screwed up his arrest on a technicality about not existing, we would’ve been safe to walk the streets again.

    …maybe this is why Harry Potter is so important to the portside: Mr.Monahan is like the villain in those books in that he exists as an essence; and his essence is hidden in various objects like Robert E. Lee/Joan of Arc statues and frat bro bodies of people who think they’re white.

    Read More
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  40. jim jones says:
    @Anonymous
    Newsweek, NY Daily News, Gawker, Rolling Stone... plus many more sold or auctioned or just folded.

    The people are waking up to the reality of weaponized media.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Hrw-500
    A little help from Amazon.com didn't hurt.
    , @dcthrowback
    nah, like Harvard and Yale v. no name liberal arts universities, the big brands (NYT, WaP0) will thrive the "democratization" of the industry
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  41. @Steve Sailer
    A jury decided that Rolling Stone had libeled Dean Eramo to the tune of $3 mil.

    Wasn’t that outcome based primarily on a finding that the magazine’s portrayal of Eramo was false?

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html

    I am as disgusted by RS and Rubin Erdely as you and others are. From the evidence I have seen reported, I conclude the story was an invention of Jackie and/or Rubin Erdely. I would actually like to be able say that it has been “established” as a falsehood. But can we cite any of the traditional sources for such a proposition?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ic1000
    Opinionator, your history shows that you are an insightful commenter (and one that I "follow," in Unz-speak). Your concept of "established" falsehood in a case like this is either naively foolish or quite deep, I can't tell which -- and perhaps that's the 'meta' merit of your remarks.

    One exceptional conclusion of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax was North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper's declaration of the innocence of the Duke students. It was exceptional, because the US legal establishment has no "established" procedure for exonerating the unjustly accused. E.g. the verdict contra "Guilty" is "Not Guilty."

    The Tawana Brawley case that catapulted Rev. Al Sharpton to prominence, esteem, and invitations to White House galas is another one that comes to mind. Dutchess County Assistant District Attorney Steven Pagones was ultimately "exonerated" by a report. Not that that justice delayed did a whole lot of good for his marriage or career.

    I won't be holding my breath for the Charlottesville justice system to formally proclaim Haven Monahan's innocence.

    ... but you know all this, already.

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    I think the likelihood of a US court, or law enforcement, or adverse parties, or a WAPO journalist, explicitly declaring an allegation of sexual assault by a white male "a hoax" is about the same as the likelihood of a UK court, or law enforcement, or adverse parties declaring the organised rape of white girls by Muslim gangs to be a "racially motivated" crime.
    , @Alfa158
    Do you subscribe to the European concept of the Napoleonic code of law?Any person charged with a crime is guilty until proven innocent in a court of law. Even in that system the State has to charge you with the crime. In this case there were no arrests, indictments, or charges brought against anyone at all, just a ludicrous fantasy spun out for political reasons.
    There is no need to establish that the crime was a falsehood because there was never any evidence that such an event ever even occurred other than the fevered imaginings of the scum who pushed this story.
    Let me give you an example.
    I hereby claim that you, Opinionator, were born in Albania and are living among us pretending to be American by using forged birth certificates, school records, family photos, coached witnesses who claim to be your parents, lifelong friends etc. etc.
    Please "establish" for us that what I have just written is a falsehood. How do you do that? By asking anyone to show any evidence at all that you were born in Albania.
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  42. Mr.Wenner was a lucky guy in the right place at the right time for his particular shenanigans. The zeitgeist he rode of Weird California/Successful California is over and done with and increasingly rejected as the path forward by larger and larger pluralities of the American public. We’re no longer that Post-War America being sold a succession of political, social and cultural California-isms from the liberal-tarian individualism, the fashionable post-Christianity cults, silicon valley sociopaths, identity politics, sartorial fashions, music, film-making…you name it, it might not have started in California but it sure as heck was popularized and spread outward from there. So a Rolling Stone without that momentum is just a stuck rock. I’m guessing the magazine folds under new management in 5 years time.

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  43. bartok says:
    @Luke Lea
    An old journalist girlfriend of mine, Susan Lydon, helped Wenner found Rolling Stone. One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was "chick work."

    when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”

    Gay men are quite comfortable telling straight women what to do, e.g. telling them what to wear (fashion industry).

    Read More
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  44. bartok says:
    @Twinkie
    Just imagine how differently it all would have turned out, if some fraternity man actually had sex with that young female liar at UVA!

    There was justice (of sorts) in the end, because there was no physical evidence. Yes, one can still be accused of rape even when there is no sexual encounter, but one can defend oneself much more easily in such a case.

    So, I repeat, young men, do NOT have sex with random, strange women. Meet and court a moral young woman and marry her first. But, failing that, at least get to know a woman for a good while before starting any physical intimacy.

    You don't want to play fire with the crazy.

    No, the best idea is to beat her to the courthouse. As soon as you get a bad vibe from a drunken hookup (unhappy text, etc.), immediately report her for rape in your college’s Title IX venue.

    She was drunker than you, so she raped you. Easy.

    Amy Schumer wrote about something like that. Her college crush drunk-dialed her, she was stone sober, and she had sex with him while he was asleep / barely awake and completely drunk. It’s in her memoir.

    Read More
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  45. eah says:

    still

    Sabrina Rubin Erdely still hasn’t tweeted since 30 Nov 2014:

    “LOL”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    "[H]ow my UVA article came to be"

    Nice use of the passive voice there, Ms. Rubin Erdely.
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  46. Svigor says:

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.

    You can’t prove a negative. Which is why we have presumption of innocence, and nobody tries to prove there’s no Santa Claus. “Haven” not did not go before a grand jury or get indicted or tried, he doesn’t even exist.

    When we say something doesn’t exist, that means “not proven to exist.”

    So no, no joy for you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    The Charlottesville PD could say they believe the fraternity is innocent. Isn't that what happened in the Duke Lacrosse case?

    Rolling Stone could say they believe the story is false. Or Jackie could state it is false.

    If the fraternity or university had sued RS for defamation as to the story and won, that would seem to "establish" the story's falsity.
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  47. Coemgen says:
    @Opinionator
    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?

    Accusations are not proof. Accusations are not even evidence. Where is the evidence/proof that a rape occurred?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Jackie's statements are "evidence."
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  48. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Wenner probably looked at the his hefty fine and the political climate these days, and decided he needed to bail out now because he wasn’t inclined to give the magazine the editorial oversight it needed anymore, (he likely wants to enjoy a wealthy retirement in peace), and he realized his militant SJW writers were going to drag him into messes that will clean out his piggy bank.

    I also suspect that Wenner, whose magazine has won a number of distinguished journalism awards over the years, was shocked when he realized that a story in his own magazine was nothing but a big fraud. I’m sure he’s quite proud of Rolling Stone’s Pulitzers, but Wenner was always a hands-off owner who let his writers do as they pleased, and I think he trusted them completely and believed in the honesty of his magazine’s journalism. He’s undoubtedly been hearing a lot about fake news pouring out of the leftwing media, and I don’t think he was happy about being taken for a ride by one of his own political ilk and losing over a million in the process. Wenner’s undoubtedly selling because he’s afraid he’ll get sued again for a story he was too lazy to have vetted, and he realizes that in today’s climate, he can’t stay on top of, or prevent his militant leftwing jihadist reporters from just making stuff up anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    He hired Matt Taibbi to write about finance. I doubt Mr. Wenner is all that concerned about getting the story right.
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  49. Clyde says:

    So how much will Rolling Stone sell for? I think between 5-20 million dollars. It is really just a website now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Mort Zuckerman gave away the New York Daily News, his business sector is capital intensive and cash poor. Rolling Stone no longer matters, but its bastard child VICE Media is carrying on the legacy. Since VICE is private we have no clue whether it is even profitable, and just sustained by continued "investments". It might well be the media version of Theranos.
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  50. dr kill says:
    @Opinionator
    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?

    Read More
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  51. Maj. Kong says:
    @Anonym
    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

    Yes, that is the fundamental question of (print) media. How do they expect to make money when they constantly attack their readership, encourage their dispossession via wealth transfer, and discourage their productive breeding? A founder and shareholder like Wenner has no reason to focus on quarterly results at the expense of the generational picture. He may be homosexually inclined but he also has 6 children.

    How many Newsweeks is it going to take going belly up to realize that anti-White propaganda is bad business? It may make money in languages such as Chinese, but again, that is really dumb. It's dumb on the scale of if the American Indians mass produced Manifest Destiny pamphlets because the European settlers paid them to.

    There are hundreds of billionaires, and a few dozen with a net worth 25 Billion +. They can easily subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle for thousands of journalists, for years on end. And recall that in many countries such as the UK, the mass media is outright funded by the government via tax and debt. CultMarx has never been profitable.

    Laurene Powell (Steve) Jobs just bought the Atlantic, and completely escaped notice. Apple/Disney can’t write off lobbying as an expense, but their largest shareholder can legally lose millions on an unprofitable publication and deduct said losses from their tax return.

    Print media died with the creation of Craigslist, ironically founded by OldMarx, classified ads are the main source of revenue. For magazines, we are probably talking about tobacco, alcohol and car ads, all of which are in steep decline.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Craigslist only killed the profitability of newspapers, not all of print media.

    The internet in general helped to kill print media because you could get the same content online, much faster, than you could on paper. Yesterday's newspaper was always fishwrap and by the time you got your printed paper it was already yesterday's newspaper.
    , @Anonym
    There are hundreds of billionaires, and a few dozen with a net worth 25 Billion +. They can easily subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle for thousands of journalists, for years on end. And recall that in many countries such as the UK, the mass media is outright funded by the government via tax and debt. CultMarx has never been profitable.

    I take your point (and have made it myself many times) but at least the Rolling Stone was once profitable. Wenner was a self made man.
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  52. Maj. Kong says:
    @Clyde
    So how much will Rolling Stone sell for? I think between 5-20 million dollars. It is really just a website now.

    Mort Zuckerman gave away the New York Daily News, his business sector is capital intensive and cash poor. Rolling Stone no longer matters, but its bastard child VICE Media is carrying on the legacy. Since VICE is private we have no clue whether it is even profitable, and just sustained by continued “investments”. It might well be the media version of Theranos.

    Read More
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  53. Yak-15 says:

    My frat house was always labeled as having a “rapey vibe” and a “rape house” despite zero evidence of any rapes and none happening to my knowledge. Regardless, we were a house of varsity athletes and chicks who repeated this clear falsehood would still show up to parties.

    What does that say about them? Projection of desires?

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  54. ic1000 says:
    @Opinionator
    Wasn't that outcome based primarily on a finding that the magazine's portrayal of Eramo was false?

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html

    I am as disgusted by RS and Rubin Erdely as you and others are. From the evidence I have seen reported, I conclude the story was an invention of Jackie and/or Rubin Erdely. I would actually like to be able say that it has been "established" as a falsehood. But can we cite any of the traditional sources for such a proposition?

    Opinionator, your history shows that you are an insightful commenter (and one that I “follow,” in Unz-speak). Your concept of “established” falsehood in a case like this is either naively foolish or quite deep, I can’t tell which — and perhaps that’s the ‘meta’ merit of your remarks.

    One exceptional conclusion of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax was North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper’s declaration of the innocence of the Duke students. It was exceptional, because the US legal establishment has no “established” procedure for exonerating the unjustly accused. E.g. the verdict contra “Guilty” is “Not Guilty.”

    The Tawana Brawley case that catapulted Rev. Al Sharpton to prominence, esteem, and invitations to White House galas is another one that comes to mind. Dutchess County Assistant District Attorney Steven Pagones was ultimately “exonerated” by a report. Not that that justice delayed did a whole lot of good for his marriage or career.

    I won’t be holding my breath for the Charlottesville justice system to formally proclaim Haven Monahan’s innocence.

    … but you know all this, already.

    Read More
    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    One exceptional conclusion of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax was North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper’s declaration of the innocence of the Duke students. It was exceptional, because the US legal establishment has no “established” procedure for exonerating the unjustly accused. E.g. the verdict contra “Guilty” is “Not Guilty.”
     
    It may be worth noting that in Scots law, there is a three-verdict system - one verdict of conviction, "Guilty," and two verdicts of acquittal, "Not Guilty" and "Not Proven," are available. "Not Guilty" is effectively a verdict of "innocent," whereas "Not Proven" is the verdict of acquittal rendered when there is not enough evidence to convict.

    Because American procedure is (outside of Louisiana) based on English common law, "Not Guilty" necessarily includes both the innocent and those in whose cases there is inadequate evidence to prove guilt. Thus, no one acquitted by a U.S. court can be said to be discharged by the court without a stain on his character.
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  55. @Opinionator
    Wasn't that outcome based primarily on a finding that the magazine's portrayal of Eramo was false?

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html

    I am as disgusted by RS and Rubin Erdely as you and others are. From the evidence I have seen reported, I conclude the story was an invention of Jackie and/or Rubin Erdely. I would actually like to be able say that it has been "established" as a falsehood. But can we cite any of the traditional sources for such a proposition?

    I think the likelihood of a US court, or law enforcement, or adverse parties, or a WAPO journalist, explicitly declaring an allegation of sexual assault by a white male “a hoax” is about the same as the likelihood of a UK court, or law enforcement, or adverse parties declaring the organised rape of white girls by Muslim gangs to be a “racially motivated” crime.

    Read More
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  56. King Baeksu says: • Website
    @Broski
    The Gray Lady's quality converges with that of Gawker and Rolling Stone, and its fate shall be the same. It may not get sued out of existence, but it's not going to be a meaningful institution for much longer. Whatever prestige its employees think they derive from their association with the the brand will be fleeting; indeed, it may become a blemish.

    The NYT is now trying to convince its good-white readers that affirmative action means giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to educate “Dreamers” from Kenya:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/affirmative-action-college.html

    They also had the cheek to suggest that the University of New Mexico isn’t “diverse” enough, despite being over 50% Hispanic, and that standardized testing is a “system of segregation”:

    The elite college population will reflect the country’s overall demographics only when schools “blow up the system” of admissions, said Sheryll Cashin, a professor of law at Georgetown University and an expert on affirmative action. She proposed eliminating the consideration of standardized test scores and ending legacy admissions for the children of alumni.

    “The elite schools are participating in and propagating the system of segregation,” Ms. Cashin said. Instead, she added, they ought to be willing to admit high-achieving students from high schools that offer few or no Advanced Placement courses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>The elite college population will reflect the country’s overall demographics only when schools “blow up the system” of admissions, said Sheryll Cashin, a professor of law at Georgetown University and an expert on affirmative action.

    I say bring it on. Little would please me more than to see NAMs comprise 30% of the student population at Harvard, Yale, et. al.....
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  57. Barnard says:
    @Broski
    The Gray Lady's quality converges with that of Gawker and Rolling Stone, and its fate shall be the same. It may not get sued out of existence, but it's not going to be a meaningful institution for much longer. Whatever prestige its employees think they derive from their association with the the brand will be fleeting; indeed, it may become a blemish.

    I wish that was the case, but as long as the elites consider it the “Paper of Record” it will continue to have an outsized place in shaping news and influencing our culture. When a certain segment of society doesn’t even want to know the truth in a story like this or considers it “fake, but accurate” like a Dan Rather story, there will always be a market for reporting like this.

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  58. Jack D says:

    When these stories fade from the headlines, leftists are left with a sort of vaguely remembered conventional wisdom on what happened. The initial false story on p.1 creates a permanent memory trace and the later retractions don’t make as big an impression. Around here, folks were focused on Jackie and her lies, but for someone like Sydney, all that she can remember is that there were some rape allegations that somehow in the end couldn’t be proven. You may regard “unproven” as tendentiously false but I’m betting that’s how Sydney honestly remembers this. The only way for the initial impression to be overturned is if there is some equally memorable news event to overturn the initial memory, such as the disbarment of Nifong in the Duke lacrosse case.

    Jackie was always careful not to say anything to the cops so she could not be prosecuted for filing a false police report (neither was Crystal Mangum – in fact such prosecutions seem to be rare). The fact that the U.Va. did not expel Jackie for violating its honor code (which they had every right to do and should have done) helped to perpetuate the myth. There seems to be no appetite for going after false female accusers. Maybe for good reason because they tend to be mentally ill and in most cases the real guilty parties are the leftists and authorities who exploit these women by using them as tools for their own political and career advancement. Jackie showed no real enthusiasm when Erdely started coming around but by then she was too deep in to just back out. But part of it is just leftist double standards. Long after there was no reason for shielding Jackie as a “rape victim” they continued to refuse to print her name. If the left didn’t have double standards they wouldn’t have any at all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    In the UK in the last couple of years we've seen a boy of 17, Jay Cheshire, who had previous mental issues, commit suicide after rape charges were dropped when the girl withdrew her claim - this case didn't get much news coverage.

    Eleanor de Freitas, a striking girl with bipolar disorder, committed suicide three days before her trial for false rape accusations (the alleged rapist was the son of a wealthy shipping owner who spared no expense bringing a private prosecution for the false claim) - this got huge coverage and there's a feminist campaign for reducing the punishment for making false allegations.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11267565/Rape-claims-109-women-prosecuted-for-false-allegations-over-five-years.html

    , @Forbes

    but for someone like Sydney, all that she can remember is that there were some rape allegations that somehow in the end couldn’t be proven.
     
    If this is an accurate characterization, then it confirms what (I think) many of us here consider to be true about journalism in general, and the NYT specifically, i.e. the truth is what one imagines it to be. Fact-checking and accuracy about what is known about the story subject matter is merely a matter of the writer's recall--while reinforcing The Narrative.

    What I've come to describe as agenda journalism.
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  59. Hrw-500 says:
    @jim jones
    The Washington Post is growing:

    http://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/12/the-profitable-washington-post-adding-more-than-five-dozen-journalists-004900

    A little help from Amazon.com didn’t hurt.

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  60. @Twinkie
    Just imagine how differently it all would have turned out, if some fraternity man actually had sex with that young female liar at UVA!

    There was justice (of sorts) in the end, because there was no physical evidence. Yes, one can still be accused of rape even when there is no sexual encounter, but one can defend oneself much more easily in such a case.

    So, I repeat, young men, do NOT have sex with random, strange women. Meet and court a moral young woman and marry her first. But, failing that, at least get to know a woman for a good while before starting any physical intimacy.

    You don't want to play fire with the crazy.

    Yeah. There’s an app for that. It’s called Fizzlr. You swipe left for your roommate to sleep with the girl you’re getting to know or swipe right for her to stop calling you back.

    Read More
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  61. have steadily taken a financial toll on Rolling Stone, and a botched story three years ago about an unproven gang rape at the University of Virginia badly bruised the magazine’s journalistic reputation.

    Steve blows the smoke off the barrel of his keyboard, reholsters it, and turns his back on the corpse of a magazine lying in the dusty high bandwidth line.

    Exeunt.

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    • LOL: Abe, Seneca
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  62. Not Raul says:
    @JerryC
    Hmmm. Haven't black people always been number one on the oppressed list?

    >> Haven’t black people always been number one on the oppressed list? <<

    Vat ahbaut zee jooz?

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  63. @Coemgen
    Accusations are not proof. Accusations are not even evidence. Where is the evidence/proof that a rape occurred?

    Jackie’s statements are “evidence.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Coemgen
    Her "statements" are evidence of schizophrenia. That is, if they are not outright lies.
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  64. @Svigor

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.
     
    You can't prove a negative. Which is why we have presumption of innocence, and nobody tries to prove there's no Santa Claus. "Haven" not did not go before a grand jury or get indicted or tried, he doesn't even exist.

    When we say something doesn't exist, that means "not proven to exist."

    So no, no joy for you.

    The Charlottesville PD could say they believe the fraternity is innocent. Isn’t that what happened in the Duke Lacrosse case?

    Rolling Stone could say they believe the story is false. Or Jackie could state it is false.

    If the fraternity or university had sued RS for defamation as to the story and won, that would seem to “establish” the story’s falsity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Hey, Captain Question Mark, for you Ron should add a button to Agree/Disagree section labeled "Aspergery Pedant"!

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/13/media/rolling-stone-fraternity-settlement/index.html

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/19/552090031/fraternity-members-defamation-case-against-rolling-stone-can-proceed-court-says

    Rolling Stone paid off the fraternity trying to avoid a collective defamation suit, but now they have to face the suits from the defamed fraternity members. The $4+ million they've paid out so far comes from their insurance company, but I think any further judgments come out of the magazine's coffers.

    Who'd want to buy a publication saddled with the uncertainty of maybe (probably) having to pay out millions in lawsuit losses?
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  65. whorefinder says: • Website

    It is truly amazing how delusional the Left/Boomers are about their reality. They literally think Rolling Stone-–a magazine designed to sell corporate music products—was/is somehow “real” or “counter culture” instead of a Squealer for moneymakers and cheap music hucksters.

    Shades of how they arguePlayboy was/is something other than a porno mag with the best lighting and airbrushing around.

    The Revolution must be continuous, comrades!

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  66. @res
    It is fascinating how often the hardcore sexists actually turn out to be darlings of the left. Exhibit A being Slick Willie and his women.

    Another exhibit A of course is Jack Kennedy who slept with a different woman every night while Jackie was more or less exiled from the White House to the Kennedy compound for months. All this covered up by his friends in government and the press.

    Most Democrat presidents make Republican presidents look like saints.

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  67. @whoever

    Susan Lydon

     

    Another famous and influential person I never heard of. Thanks for bringing her up.

    One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”
     
    Well, there's a reason there's such a thing as feminism. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, and everyone gets blown to feathers and flinders.

    Apparently she was married at that time so Luke must have been “just a friend”.

    Again, we see that a radical feminist is a broken woman taking her revenge on society.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whoever
    I imagine Lydon would rather be remembered as the knitting lady rather than the orgasm lady, although either could be described as having fun with your fingers.
    ヽ(^。^)丿
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  68. @Jack D
    When these stories fade from the headlines, leftists are left with a sort of vaguely remembered conventional wisdom on what happened. The initial false story on p.1 creates a permanent memory trace and the later retractions don't make as big an impression. Around here, folks were focused on Jackie and her lies, but for someone like Sydney, all that she can remember is that there were some rape allegations that somehow in the end couldn't be proven. You may regard "unproven" as tendentiously false but I'm betting that's how Sydney honestly remembers this. The only way for the initial impression to be overturned is if there is some equally memorable news event to overturn the initial memory, such as the disbarment of Nifong in the Duke lacrosse case.

    Jackie was always careful not to say anything to the cops so she could not be prosecuted for filing a false police report (neither was Crystal Mangum - in fact such prosecutions seem to be rare). The fact that the U.Va. did not expel Jackie for violating its honor code (which they had every right to do and should have done) helped to perpetuate the myth. There seems to be no appetite for going after false female accusers. Maybe for good reason because they tend to be mentally ill and in most cases the real guilty parties are the leftists and authorities who exploit these women by using them as tools for their own political and career advancement. Jackie showed no real enthusiasm when Erdely started coming around but by then she was too deep in to just back out. But part of it is just leftist double standards. Long after there was no reason for shielding Jackie as a "rape victim" they continued to refuse to print her name. If the left didn't have double standards they wouldn't have any at all.

    In the UK in the last couple of years we’ve seen a boy of 17, Jay Cheshire, who had previous mental issues, commit suicide after rape charges were dropped when the girl withdrew her claim – this case didn’t get much news coverage.

    Eleanor de Freitas, a striking girl with bipolar disorder, committed suicide three days before her trial for false rape accusations (the alleged rapist was the son of a wealthy shipping owner who spared no expense bringing a private prosecution for the false claim) – this got huge coverage and there’s a feminist campaign for reducing the punishment for making false allegations.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/11267565/Rape-claims-109-women-prosecuted-for-false-allegations-over-five-years.html

    Read More
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  69. Jack D says:
    @Opinionator
    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?

    Truth is a defense to a libel claim. So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free instead of owing her $3 million. If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense.

    But they didn’t even try (for obvious reasons) and fell back to more defensible lines such as lack of malice (reckless disregard for whether the story was true, which is a very high threshold to breach). And even those lines didn’t hold – not only was the rape claim implicitly not true but they had so little basis for thinking that it might have been true that it was reckless and actionable to print such a poorly sourced story.

    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo’s favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ic1000
    Responding to Jack D's comment, "So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free... If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense. But they didn’t even try..."

    And also his earlier #58, "When these stories fade from the headlines, leftists are left with a sort of vaguely remembered conventional wisdom on what happened. The initial false story on p.1 creates a permanent memory trace and the later retractions don’t make as big an impression."
    A trait shared by all of iSteve's deplorable followable commenters is that they read critically, with attention to detail, logic, and plausibility. And they read the current story in the context of what has come before.

    There are certainly many Progressives who do the same. But most people on the Left and on the Right do not. The vast majority of those in the Center, do not.

    That may be the Great Divide of the Current Year, and the great insight that drives the Progressive alliance from victory to victory. Very few Westerners read critically. Most are content to get their news from screens: cable TV visuals and voiceovers, Facebook feeds, Atlantic and Buzzfeed clickbait.

    It takes at least a modest intellectual focus to appreciate the arguments that Jack D is making about the Night of Broken Glass. Or to go deeper than woozy sentiment such as "it's mean to hurt Dreamers' feelings."

    Most of our fellow citizens lack the background and discipline to routinely engage at this level. Perhaps this is what critically low asabiyya looks like, in today's world. So we're getting it, good and hard, in Menken's words.
    , @Opinionator
    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo’s favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    I don't think that's necessarily the case here. Eramo's lawsuit could have raised only the issue of whether the RS allegations about Eramo were true. That is, how did Eramo conduct herself with respect to Jackie's allegations, whether or not they were true. What you write would seem more relevant to a lawsuit by the fraternity or university alleging injury to reputation due directly to a false story about a campus rape.
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  70. Alfa158 says:
    @Opinionator
    Wasn't that outcome based primarily on a finding that the magazine's portrayal of Eramo was false?

    One searches in vain in this T. Rees Shapiro article on the verdict for a clear statement from a court (or from law enforcement) or from adverse parties (RS, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Jackie), or even from Shapiro, that the underlying rape accusation was false.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/jury-to-deliberate-damages-to-u-va-dean-in-rolling-stone-defamation-lawsuit/2016/11/07/e2aa2eb0-a506-11e6-ba59-a7d93165c6d4_story.html

    I am as disgusted by RS and Rubin Erdely as you and others are. From the evidence I have seen reported, I conclude the story was an invention of Jackie and/or Rubin Erdely. I would actually like to be able say that it has been "established" as a falsehood. But can we cite any of the traditional sources for such a proposition?

    Do you subscribe to the European concept of the Napoleonic code of law?Any person charged with a crime is guilty until proven innocent in a court of law. Even in that system the State has to charge you with the crime. In this case there were no arrests, indictments, or charges brought against anyone at all, just a ludicrous fantasy spun out for political reasons.
    There is no need to establish that the crime was a falsehood because there was never any evidence that such an event ever even occurred other than the fevered imaginings of the scum who pushed this story.
    Let me give you an example.
    I hereby claim that you, Opinionator, were born in Albania and are living among us pretending to be American by using forged birth certificates, school records, family photos, coached witnesses who claim to be your parents, lifelong friends etc. etc.
    Please “establish” for us that what I have just written is a falsehood. How do you do that? By asking anyone to show any evidence at all that you were born in Albania.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    If you claimed some direct eyewitness knowledge of my having been born in Albania, that would be evidence. Jackie claimed eyewitness knowledge of a rape.
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  71. Jack D says:
    @Maj. Kong
    There are hundreds of billionaires, and a few dozen with a net worth 25 Billion +. They can easily subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle for thousands of journalists, for years on end. And recall that in many countries such as the UK, the mass media is outright funded by the government via tax and debt. CultMarx has never been profitable.

    Laurene Powell (Steve) Jobs just bought the Atlantic, and completely escaped notice. Apple/Disney can't write off lobbying as an expense, but their largest shareholder can legally lose millions on an unprofitable publication and deduct said losses from their tax return.

    Print media died with the creation of Craigslist, ironically founded by OldMarx, classified ads are the main source of revenue. For magazines, we are probably talking about tobacco, alcohol and car ads, all of which are in steep decline.

    Craigslist only killed the profitability of newspapers, not all of print media.

    The internet in general helped to kill print media because you could get the same content online, much faster, than you could on paper. Yesterday’s newspaper was always fishwrap and by the time you got your printed paper it was already yesterday’s newspaper.

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  72. @Veracitor
    I feel pity for mainstream media writers who cannot spell the simple word "h o a x". Just think how they would all sigh with relief, maybe even crack their knuckles or interlace their fingers and stretch their arms over their heads for a moment, then lean back in their chairs with satisfaction, if they could just master their recalcitrant hands to type those four little letters into their stories.

    Separately, I suspect all those Rolling Stone covers reflected Jann Wenner's unique aesthetic perspective. I just wonder how selling the magazine will affect Wenner's six children plus his ex-wife and his current husband. I was under the impression that the actual ownership arrangement for Wenner's media empire was a type of syndicate.

    Dear Heaven, I just clicked on the Daily Mail and read about more of the filth that passes for today’s popular culture. This Wenner character is quite a piece of work. He’s single-handedly screwing up 6 children for life. there’s a pic there of one of his offspring who looks like a young meth addict already.

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  73. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie
    Just imagine how differently it all would have turned out, if some fraternity man actually had sex with that young female liar at UVA!

    There was justice (of sorts) in the end, because there was no physical evidence. Yes, one can still be accused of rape even when there is no sexual encounter, but one can defend oneself much more easily in such a case.

    So, I repeat, young men, do NOT have sex with random, strange women. Meet and court a moral young woman and marry her first. But, failing that, at least get to know a woman for a good while before starting any physical intimacy.

    You don't want to play fire with the crazy.

    A number of the college “rape” cases involved long term couples and the rape allegations would sometimes surface months or even years after the alleged acts occurred, after a breakup or after the girl’s parents or some feminist organization came into the picture. Aside from celibacy, the only way of protecting against such allegation is getting rid of the system of kangaroo trials and restoring the traditional burdens of proof that protect us against false accusations.

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  74. AndrewR says:
    @Luke Lea
    An old journalist girlfriend of mine, Susan Lydon, helped Wenner found Rolling Stone. One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was "chick work."

    Breaking news: a liberal said something sexist 50 years ago. Stop the presses!

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  75. AndrewR says:
    @Anon
    Do we really have to start at Square One with you? The rapists were fictional. Fictional. Do you know what the word fictional means??

    Fictional rapists--even ones as clever and cunning as Haven Monahan--do not commit genuine rapes.

    Now, if you're seriously claiming that you don't know that the rapists were fictional, all you have to do is review the work of Robby Soave, Richard Bradley, and, um, Steve Sailer, who will tell you all you need to know. Which, in your case--unless you're just trolling--is a lot.

    Don’t feed the trolls…

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  76. Goatweed says:

    Since Haven is a frictional character, if I were to sell clothing under the Haven Monahan label would I have to get a licensing agreement with his creator?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    The "Haven Monahan" brand would be a stroke of subversive genius.
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  77. ic1000 says:
    @Jack D
    Truth is a defense to a libel claim. So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free instead of owing her $3 million. If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense.

    But they didn't even try (for obvious reasons) and fell back to more defensible lines such as lack of malice (reckless disregard for whether the story was true, which is a very high threshold to breach). And even those lines didn't hold - not only was the rape claim implicitly not true but they had so little basis for thinking that it might have been true that it was reckless and actionable to print such a poorly sourced story.

    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo's favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    Responding to Jack D’s comment, “So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free… If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense. But they didn’t even try…”

    And also his earlier #58, “When these stories fade from the headlines, leftists are left with a sort of vaguely remembered conventional wisdom on what happened. The initial false story on p.1 creates a permanent memory trace and the later retractions don’t make as big an impression.”
    A trait shared by all of iSteve’s deplorable followable commenters is that they read critically, with attention to detail, logic, and plausibility. And they read the current story in the context of what has come before.

    There are certainly many Progressives who do the same. But most people on the Left and on the Right do not. The vast majority of those in the Center, do not.

    That may be the Great Divide of the Current Year, and the great insight that drives the Progressive alliance from victory to victory. Very few Westerners read critically. Most are content to get their news from screens: cable TV visuals and voiceovers, Facebook feeds, Atlantic and Buzzfeed clickbait.

    It takes at least a modest intellectual focus to appreciate the arguments that Jack D is making about the Night of Broken Glass. Or to go deeper than woozy sentiment such as “it’s mean to hurt Dreamers’ feelings.”

    Most of our fellow citizens lack the background and discipline to routinely engage at this level. Perhaps this is what critically low asabiyya looks like, in today’s world. So we’re getting it, good and hard, in Menken’s words.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes

    That may be the Great Divide of the Current Year, and the great insight that drives the Progressive alliance from victory to victory. Very few Westerners read critically. Most are content to get their news from screens: cable TV visuals and voiceovers, Facebook feeds, Atlantic and Buzzfeed clickbait. ...

    Most of our fellow citizens lack the background and discipline to routinely engage at this level.
     
    I find most prog-lefties with whom I engage (in NYC) have a stuck-in-their-bubble mentality (confirmation bias). They watched CNN or read it in the NYT--so it must be true--and that is the extent of their familiarity with the topic. Any information outside that realm is dismissed.
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  78. Hello? Billionaire conservatives? Buy rolling stone.

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  79. Abe says: • Website
    @Anon
    Do we really have to start at Square One with you? The rapists were fictional. Fictional. Do you know what the word fictional means??

    Fictional rapists--even ones as clever and cunning as Haven Monahan--do not commit genuine rapes.

    Now, if you're seriously claiming that you don't know that the rapists were fictional, all you have to do is review the work of Robby Soave, Richard Bradley, and, um, Steve Sailer, who will tell you all you need to know. Which, in your case--unless you're just trolling--is a lot.

    Which, in your case–unless you’re just trolling–is a lot.

    I’ve always had the lingering suspicion ‘Opionator’ (even the handle suggests a mechanical, man-meets-machine quality) to be nothing more than an artificial-intelligence experiment Ron has unleashed on us to get engineering feedback in real-time. TinyDuck being the next-gen full-natural language processing bot, Opionator- with all the cloying ‘And why do you think that?’- the more back-to-basics, neo-ELIZA/pseudo-Rogerian Therapist bot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Someone with waaay too much time on his hands, me thinks.
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  80. schrub says:

    People still don’t seem to realize just how close the University of Virginia lacrosse case came to having a totally different outcome.

    The salvation of the lacrosse team member was due almost exclusively due to the fact that one of the team members was Jewish and from a well to do and prominent family. It was only after individual Jews and Jewish organizations banded together to apply pressure to make sure that this one Jewish kid had a fair hearing that the case started to fall apart. When this happened, groups like the previously “concerned” ADL and SPLC suddenly seemed to lose interest in it. The media also suddenly became more cautious.

    The parents of the gentile players in this fiasco were simply deer in the headlights, totally incapable of applying similar pressure.

    But another, entirely different scenario could have evolved. If ALL of the lacrosse team members had simply been gentiles, groups like the Anti Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center wouldn’t have come under pressure to call off their attack dogs in the MSM. Instead they would have continued to use these puppets to continue to push to convict these team members in the media well before their actual trials.

    If one of the team members hadn’t have been Jewish the case would have swiftly descended into yet another media circus just like all of the other carefully scripted events that the ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center have had a hand in.

    Without this one Jewish member, the prosecution of this case would have continued and the now “media convicted” gentile lacrosse members would have ended up having to face “show trials” before carefully chosen, most likely urban, maybe all black, juries similar to the O.J. Simpson “show trial” before it.

    In addition, these trials, just like “show trials” historically, would also have been most likely have been overseen by a carefully chosen judge or judges as well. (History shows that the ADL never leaves anything this valuable to chance). Author David Irving was actually naive enough to think he would ever be judged impartially during his heavily publicized libel trial. (He wasn’t0.)

    These gentile players simply wouldn’t of had a chance regardless of their innocence.

    They would most likely have been convicted and would now be rotting in a definitely NOT “country club prison” right now to make examples of them to their similarly “vile gentile counterparts”.

    I hope that these lacrosse players thank god every day that one of the one of their members happened to be Jewish. He alone saved their asses.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    There was no accusation against the UVa lacrosse team. It was the Duke lacrosse team. None of the accused players were Jewish (two were Catholic and fairly observant Catholic for 'a that). I was a participant at the time in a forum which included an DC attorney who claimed to know Rae Evans, also a DC attorney and the mother of one of the accused. He says, "If I know Rae Evans, she will see to it that he [Michael Nifong] is squashed like a bug". The Finnerty family is wealthy enough to build buildings for institutions. The Seligmann family was likely the most impecunious of the trio but still quite well-to-do (before legal bills cleaned them out). Michael Nifong filed bogus criminal charges against one family whose style would not be cramped by losing a million bucks and another family whose matriarch knows the system quite well. When Rae Evans said to the interviewer, "Mr. Nifong, you picked on the wrong people," 'twas not bravado.
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  81. Broski says:
    @eah
    still

    Sabrina Rubin Erdely still hasn't tweeted since 30 Nov 2014:

    https://twitter.com/SabrinaRErdely/status/539075929478148097

    "LOL"

    “[H]ow my UVA article came to be”

    Nice use of the passive voice there, Ms. Rubin Erdely.

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  82. @Jack D
    Truth is a defense to a libel claim. So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free instead of owing her $3 million. If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense.

    But they didn't even try (for obvious reasons) and fell back to more defensible lines such as lack of malice (reckless disregard for whether the story was true, which is a very high threshold to breach). And even those lines didn't hold - not only was the rape claim implicitly not true but they had so little basis for thinking that it might have been true that it was reckless and actionable to print such a poorly sourced story.

    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo's favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo’s favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    I don’t think that’s necessarily the case here. Eramo’s lawsuit could have raised only the issue of whether the RS allegations about Eramo were true. That is, how did Eramo conduct herself with respect to Jackie’s allegations, whether or not they were true. What you write would seem more relevant to a lawsuit by the fraternity or university alleging injury to reputation due directly to a false story about a campus rape.

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  83. @Alfa158
    Do you subscribe to the European concept of the Napoleonic code of law?Any person charged with a crime is guilty until proven innocent in a court of law. Even in that system the State has to charge you with the crime. In this case there were no arrests, indictments, or charges brought against anyone at all, just a ludicrous fantasy spun out for political reasons.
    There is no need to establish that the crime was a falsehood because there was never any evidence that such an event ever even occurred other than the fevered imaginings of the scum who pushed this story.
    Let me give you an example.
    I hereby claim that you, Opinionator, were born in Albania and are living among us pretending to be American by using forged birth certificates, school records, family photos, coached witnesses who claim to be your parents, lifelong friends etc. etc.
    Please "establish" for us that what I have just written is a falsehood. How do you do that? By asking anyone to show any evidence at all that you were born in Albania.

    If you claimed some direct eyewitness knowledge of my having been born in Albania, that would be evidence. Jackie claimed eyewitness knowledge of a rape.

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  84. Abe says: • Website
    @Polynikes
    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don't want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.

    Mexicans may not be big on print subscriptions, but they are pretty solid rock n’ roll fans. GUNS N ROSES (the last, great rock n’ roll band- sorry, NIRVANA and PEARL JAM, doesn’t matter how many records you sold in the day when you so openly hated all your straight, white, male fans) launched a big reunion tour last year, and over half the comments to all the concert clips posted on YOUTUBE are either in Spanish or Portuguese. Rock is probably bigger overall in Latin America than it is in the US right now. So as a lot of us have been saying for years now, the browning of America may actually lead to the revival of a lot of 20th Century white culture, as Mexican-Americans (who anyway intermarry at a good clip with the white working class) have tastes in music and movies (comic book-based blowups being pretty popular right) fairly close to the non-SWPL mainstream.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The only reason Hispanics like rock and roll is Youtube. Before Youtube, a lot of rock and roll records were hard to get in Hispanic countries (no distribution network), but also because most Hispanics were too poor to buy them. Youtube is free.
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  85. Read this Rolling Stone “retraction.” Where does it state that Jackie’s account was false. It doesn’t. The only “mistake” RS acknowledges here is its not interviewing certain other witnesses.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

    Rolling Stone settled the fraternity’s case. As part of the settlement, did it give any acknowledgment that the story was false? I haven’t seen that reported.

    Here is Shapiro writing more categorically about whether the story was true. He refers to it as having been “debunked.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/local/education/fraternity-chapter-at-u-va-to-settle-suit-against-rolling-stone-for-165-million/2017/06/13/35012b46-503d-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @TTT
    So we're supposed to trust Rolling Stone to report accurately on their unprecedented journalistic faux pas?
    , @Art Deco
    She claimed to have been gang-raped on broken glass by (among others) a person provably non-existent. There's a reason she assiduously avoided talking to cops.

    You're awfully tiresome.

    , @Jack D
    You've made your point. Time to give it a rest.
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  86. Daniel H says:
    @King Baeksu
    The NYT is now trying to convince its good-white readers that affirmative action means giving away hundreds of thousands of dollars to educate "Dreamers" from Kenya:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/affirmative-action-college.html

    They also had the cheek to suggest that the University of New Mexico isn't "diverse" enough, despite being over 50% Hispanic, and that standardized testing is a "system of segregation":

    The elite college population will reflect the country’s overall demographics only when schools “blow up the system” of admissions, said Sheryll Cashin, a professor of law at Georgetown University and an expert on affirmative action. She proposed eliminating the consideration of standardized test scores and ending legacy admissions for the children of alumni.

    “The elite schools are participating in and propagating the system of segregation,” Ms. Cashin said. Instead, she added, they ought to be willing to admit high-achieving students from high schools that offer few or no Advanced Placement courses.
     

    >>The elite college population will reflect the country’s overall demographics only when schools “blow up the system” of admissions, said Sheryll Cashin, a professor of law at Georgetown University and an expert on affirmative action.

    I say bring it on. Little would please me more than to see NAMs comprise 30% of the student population at Harvard, Yale, et. al…..

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  87. Art Deco says:
    @Anon
    Wenner probably looked at the his hefty fine and the political climate these days, and decided he needed to bail out now because he wasn't inclined to give the magazine the editorial oversight it needed anymore, (he likely wants to enjoy a wealthy retirement in peace), and he realized his militant SJW writers were going to drag him into messes that will clean out his piggy bank.

    I also suspect that Wenner, whose magazine has won a number of distinguished journalism awards over the years, was shocked when he realized that a story in his own magazine was nothing but a big fraud. I'm sure he's quite proud of Rolling Stone's Pulitzers, but Wenner was always a hands-off owner who let his writers do as they pleased, and I think he trusted them completely and believed in the honesty of his magazine's journalism. He's undoubtedly been hearing a lot about fake news pouring out of the leftwing media, and I don't think he was happy about being taken for a ride by one of his own political ilk and losing over a million in the process. Wenner's undoubtedly selling because he's afraid he'll get sued again for a story he was too lazy to have vetted, and he realizes that in today's climate, he can't stay on top of, or prevent his militant leftwing jihadist reporters from just making stuff up anymore.

    He hired Matt Taibbi to write about finance. I doubt Mr. Wenner is all that concerned about getting the story right.

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  88. Abe says: • Website

    Can we get a kickstarter going here to encourage some BLM/anti-fa veterans to occupy the Rock N’ Roll Hall of Fame on the grounds that it represents white appropriation of black music and that its so-called classic songs (Mick Jagger’s joyous whoops about the joys of the Triangular [Sex] Trade in BROWN SUGAR, Robert Plant’s minstrelry in BRING IT ON HOME) are simply NOT OK in CURRENT YEAR America?

    The Hall of Fame is Jann’s baby, so there’d be a certain poetic justice in the man who did so much to promote the rupture of intergenarational fraternity during his salad days see HIS temple pulled down and HIS idols scattered before he reaches the end.

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  89. Forbes says:
    @Jack D
    When these stories fade from the headlines, leftists are left with a sort of vaguely remembered conventional wisdom on what happened. The initial false story on p.1 creates a permanent memory trace and the later retractions don't make as big an impression. Around here, folks were focused on Jackie and her lies, but for someone like Sydney, all that she can remember is that there were some rape allegations that somehow in the end couldn't be proven. You may regard "unproven" as tendentiously false but I'm betting that's how Sydney honestly remembers this. The only way for the initial impression to be overturned is if there is some equally memorable news event to overturn the initial memory, such as the disbarment of Nifong in the Duke lacrosse case.

    Jackie was always careful not to say anything to the cops so she could not be prosecuted for filing a false police report (neither was Crystal Mangum - in fact such prosecutions seem to be rare). The fact that the U.Va. did not expel Jackie for violating its honor code (which they had every right to do and should have done) helped to perpetuate the myth. There seems to be no appetite for going after false female accusers. Maybe for good reason because they tend to be mentally ill and in most cases the real guilty parties are the leftists and authorities who exploit these women by using them as tools for their own political and career advancement. Jackie showed no real enthusiasm when Erdely started coming around but by then she was too deep in to just back out. But part of it is just leftist double standards. Long after there was no reason for shielding Jackie as a "rape victim" they continued to refuse to print her name. If the left didn't have double standards they wouldn't have any at all.

    but for someone like Sydney, all that she can remember is that there were some rape allegations that somehow in the end couldn’t be proven.

    If this is an accurate characterization, then it confirms what (I think) many of us here consider to be true about journalism in general, and the NYT specifically, i.e. the truth is what one imagines it to be. Fact-checking and accuracy about what is known about the story subject matter is merely a matter of the writer’s recall–while reinforcing The Narrative.

    What I’ve come to describe as agenda journalism.

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  90. Art Deco says:
    @schrub
    People still don't seem to realize just how close the University of Virginia lacrosse case came to having a totally different outcome.

    The salvation of the lacrosse team member was due almost exclusively due to the fact that one of the team members was Jewish and from a well to do and prominent family. It was only after individual Jews and Jewish organizations banded together to apply pressure to make sure that this one Jewish kid had a fair hearing that the case started to fall apart. When this happened, groups like the previously "concerned" ADL and SPLC suddenly seemed to lose interest in it. The media also suddenly became more cautious.

    The parents of the gentile players in this fiasco were simply deer in the headlights, totally incapable of applying similar pressure.

    But another, entirely different scenario could have evolved. If ALL of the lacrosse team members had simply been gentiles, groups like the Anti Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center wouldn't have come under pressure to call off their attack dogs in the MSM. Instead they would have continued to use these puppets to continue to push to convict these team members in the media well before their actual trials.

    If one of the team members hadn't have been Jewish the case would have swiftly descended into yet another media circus just like all of the other carefully scripted events that the ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center have had a hand in.

    Without this one Jewish member, the prosecution of this case would have continued and the now "media convicted" gentile lacrosse members would have ended up having to face "show trials" before carefully chosen, most likely urban, maybe all black, juries similar to the O.J. Simpson "show trial" before it.

    In addition, these trials, just like "show trials" historically, would also have been most likely have been overseen by a carefully chosen judge or judges as well. (History shows that the ADL never leaves anything this valuable to chance). Author David Irving was actually naive enough to think he would ever be judged impartially during his heavily publicized libel trial. (He wasn't0.)

    These gentile players simply wouldn't of had a chance regardless of their innocence.

    They would most likely have been convicted and would now be rotting in a definitely NOT "country club prison" right now to make examples of them to their similarly "vile gentile counterparts".

    I hope that these lacrosse players thank god every day that one of the one of their members happened to be Jewish. He alone saved their asses.

    There was no accusation against the UVa lacrosse team. It was the Duke lacrosse team. None of the accused players were Jewish (two were Catholic and fairly observant Catholic for ‘a that). I was a participant at the time in a forum which included an DC attorney who claimed to know Rae Evans, also a DC attorney and the mother of one of the accused. He says, “If I know Rae Evans, she will see to it that he [Michael Nifong] is squashed like a bug”. The Finnerty family is wealthy enough to build buildings for institutions. The Seligmann family was likely the most impecunious of the trio but still quite well-to-do (before legal bills cleaned them out). Michael Nifong filed bogus criminal charges against one family whose style would not be cramped by losing a million bucks and another family whose matriarch knows the system quite well. When Rae Evans said to the interviewer, “Mr. Nifong, you picked on the wrong people,” ’twas not bravado.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Maybe schzlub thinks that Seligmann is a Jewish name? We really need a better class of anti-Semite - like the Cambridge don played by John Gielgud who puts down Harold Abrams in plummy tones in Chariots of Fire. Instead we get Larry the Cable Guy in a trucker hat.
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  91. Broski says:
    @Goatweed
    Since Haven is a frictional character, if I were to sell clothing under the Haven Monahan label would I have to get a licensing agreement with his creator?

    The “Haven Monahan” brand would be a stroke of subversive genius.

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  92. Creem in its heyday was a better magazine. It was the cool rock mag for flyover people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    I subscribed to Creem. The talented Dave Marsh and Lester Bangs (who Wenner fired from his fawning publication because Bangs wouldn't fawn), like the magazine itself, were about the music.
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  93. TTT says:
    @Opinionator
    Read this Rolling Stone "retraction." Where does it state that Jackie's account was false. It doesn't. The only "mistake" RS acknowledges here is its not interviewing certain other witnesses.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

    Rolling Stone settled the fraternity's case. As part of the settlement, did it give any acknowledgment that the story was false? I haven't seen that reported.

    Here is Shapiro writing more categorically about whether the story was true. He refers to it as having been "debunked."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/local/education/fraternity-chapter-at-u-va-to-settle-suit-against-rolling-stone-for-165-million/2017/06/13/35012b46-503d-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html

    So we’re supposed to trust Rolling Stone to report accurately on their unprecedented journalistic faux pas?

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  94. Art Deco says:
    @Opinionator
    Read this Rolling Stone "retraction." Where does it state that Jackie's account was false. It doesn't. The only "mistake" RS acknowledges here is its not interviewing certain other witnesses.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

    Rolling Stone settled the fraternity's case. As part of the settlement, did it give any acknowledgment that the story was false? I haven't seen that reported.

    Here is Shapiro writing more categorically about whether the story was true. He refers to it as having been "debunked."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/local/education/fraternity-chapter-at-u-va-to-settle-suit-against-rolling-stone-for-165-million/2017/06/13/35012b46-503d-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html

    She claimed to have been gang-raped on broken glass by (among others) a person provably non-existent. There’s a reason she assiduously avoided talking to cops.

    You’re awfully tiresome.

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    • Agree: res
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    More irrelevancies from you. Please stop wasting our time.
    , @Johann Ricke

    When Rae Evans said to the interviewer, “Mr. Nifong, you picked on the wrong people,” ’twas not bravado.
     
    The rest of it was equally quotable:

    and you will pay every day for the rest of your life.
     
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  95. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Anon
    Those phrases caught my eye too. Okay maybe Rolling Stone made a boo-boo, can't you people just leave them alone? So maybe Jackie made a mistake or two--traumatized rape victims will do that--so what, are you perfect? No one's perfect; stop judging.

    And right back down the rabbit hole they go, taking as many readers as they can along with them. Sometimes I almost think they live down there.

    They do live down there. They only surface occasionally to deal with the real world and reality under extreme duress.

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  96. Forbes says:
    @ic1000
    Responding to Jack D's comment, "So if what Rolling Stone had printed was really true, then it could have said those awful things about Dean Eramo and walked away free... If RS thought that they had even a glimmer of a chance on that basis, they would have raised the truth of the rape claims as a defense. But they didn’t even try..."

    And also his earlier #58, "When these stories fade from the headlines, leftists are left with a sort of vaguely remembered conventional wisdom on what happened. The initial false story on p.1 creates a permanent memory trace and the later retractions don’t make as big an impression."
    A trait shared by all of iSteve's deplorable followable commenters is that they read critically, with attention to detail, logic, and plausibility. And they read the current story in the context of what has come before.

    There are certainly many Progressives who do the same. But most people on the Left and on the Right do not. The vast majority of those in the Center, do not.

    That may be the Great Divide of the Current Year, and the great insight that drives the Progressive alliance from victory to victory. Very few Westerners read critically. Most are content to get their news from screens: cable TV visuals and voiceovers, Facebook feeds, Atlantic and Buzzfeed clickbait.

    It takes at least a modest intellectual focus to appreciate the arguments that Jack D is making about the Night of Broken Glass. Or to go deeper than woozy sentiment such as "it's mean to hurt Dreamers' feelings."

    Most of our fellow citizens lack the background and discipline to routinely engage at this level. Perhaps this is what critically low asabiyya looks like, in today's world. So we're getting it, good and hard, in Menken's words.

    That may be the Great Divide of the Current Year, and the great insight that drives the Progressive alliance from victory to victory. Very few Westerners read critically. Most are content to get their news from screens: cable TV visuals and voiceovers, Facebook feeds, Atlantic and Buzzfeed clickbait. …

    Most of our fellow citizens lack the background and discipline to routinely engage at this level.

    I find most prog-lefties with whom I engage (in NYC) have a stuck-in-their-bubble mentality (confirmation bias). They watched CNN or read it in the NYT–so it must be true–and that is the extent of their familiarity with the topic. Any information outside that realm is dismissed.

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  97. Forbes says:
    @Abe

    Which, in your case–unless you’re just trolling–is a lot.
     
    I've always had the lingering suspicion 'Opionator' (even the handle suggests a mechanical, man-meets-machine quality) to be nothing more than an artificial-intelligence experiment Ron has unleashed on us to get engineering feedback in real-time. TinyDuck being the next-gen full-natural language processing bot, Opionator- with all the cloying 'And why do you think that?'- the more back-to-basics, neo-ELIZA/pseudo-Rogerian Therapist bot.

    Someone with waaay too much time on his hands, me thinks.

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  98. Abe says: • Website

    Hey, I finally watched BOYHOOD this weekend (though I wish, Steve, you had emphasized just how LONG it is in your review so that my butt was prepared).

    Anyway, really liked it as its understated themes of ordinary life and the passage of time really resonated with me, particularly as that exact same time period became what I call my ‘lost decade’- a point in my life where I was so busy dealing with work and kids and family that I don’t have a good ‘feel’ for what constituted my life back then outside of a handful of punctuated, 10-minute vignettes of the sort the movie itself is built around.

    Anyway, what struck me is how much Linklater wanted to create a paen to what it means to be a cool white guy. A cool white guy is:

    * smart
    * can be sensitive and artsy at times
    * can be regular and earthy at other times (enough, at least, to appreciate a Roger Clemens 1-hitter)
    * tells the truth and is honorable (movie really emphasizes how Linklater, despite being a proud Texan, is not one of those ‘bad’ redneck Texans who unquestionably followed Bush & Cheney to disaster in the Iraqi desert)
    * lusts after and appreciates the cool muscle car, yet is man enough to trade it in when it comes time to buy the minivan
    * loves and honors rock n’ roll, both in the here-and-now and as a glorious tradition which bonds father to son

    With the demise of ROLLING STONE magazine in particular, rock as a vital musical form in general, and the coming ‘problematization’ of the white-male rock star (the Ta Genius Coates essay writes itself) I wonder how much dudes like Wenner and Linklater are starting to realize that the little politically correct monsters they did nothing to stop other than sic ‘em on juicier targets are going to tear down everything they hold near and dear before the end.

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  99. @ic1000
    Opinionator, your history shows that you are an insightful commenter (and one that I "follow," in Unz-speak). Your concept of "established" falsehood in a case like this is either naively foolish or quite deep, I can't tell which -- and perhaps that's the 'meta' merit of your remarks.

    One exceptional conclusion of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax was North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper's declaration of the innocence of the Duke students. It was exceptional, because the US legal establishment has no "established" procedure for exonerating the unjustly accused. E.g. the verdict contra "Guilty" is "Not Guilty."

    The Tawana Brawley case that catapulted Rev. Al Sharpton to prominence, esteem, and invitations to White House galas is another one that comes to mind. Dutchess County Assistant District Attorney Steven Pagones was ultimately "exonerated" by a report. Not that that justice delayed did a whole lot of good for his marriage or career.

    I won't be holding my breath for the Charlottesville justice system to formally proclaim Haven Monahan's innocence.

    ... but you know all this, already.

    One exceptional conclusion of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax was North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper’s declaration of the innocence of the Duke students. It was exceptional, because the US legal establishment has no “established” procedure for exonerating the unjustly accused. E.g. the verdict contra “Guilty” is “Not Guilty.”

    It may be worth noting that in Scots law, there is a three-verdict system – one verdict of conviction, “Guilty,” and two verdicts of acquittal, “Not Guilty” and “Not Proven,” are available. “Not Guilty” is effectively a verdict of “innocent,” whereas “Not Proven” is the verdict of acquittal rendered when there is not enough evidence to convict.

    Because American procedure is (outside of Louisiana) based on English common law, “Not Guilty” necessarily includes both the innocent and those in whose cases there is inadequate evidence to prove guilt. Thus, no one acquitted by a U.S. court can be said to be discharged by the court without a stain on his character.

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  100. MarcB. says:
    @Anonymous
    Newsweek, NY Daily News, Gawker, Rolling Stone... plus many more sold or auctioned or just folded.

    The people are waking up to the reality of weaponized media.

    “The people are waking up to the reality of weaponized media.”

    Weaponized media of the 2010′s is the E Network. Outlets like Rolling Stone have already performed their role in Culture Creation. If they went on a permanent vacation, it wouldn’t matter in the grand scheme. Besides, it hasn’t been relevant to youth culture since the the late 1970′s. In the 1980′s it showcased Top 40 music, classic rockers, yuppie lifestyles and lefty journalists appealing to aging hippies.

    SPIN caught on with Gen X audience they neglected, and the readership and impact of RS has never been the same. By 2000′s there were too many other options catering to the young music fans, and their aging subscriber base was diminishing. Wenner was too enamored with his own reflection to take the money and run back when the getting was good.

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  101. whoever says: • Website
    @StillCARealist
    Apparently she was married at that time so Luke must have been "just a friend".

    Again, we see that a radical feminist is a broken woman taking her revenge on society.

    I imagine Lydon would rather be remembered as the knitting lady rather than the orgasm lady, although either could be described as having fun with your fingers.
    ヽ(^。^)丿

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  102. Corn says:
    @Anonymous
    OT: Donald Glover cops to the existence of Oppression Pokemon Points

    http://deadline.com/2017/09/donald-glover-wins-emmy-best-actor-comedy-series-atlanta-fx-1202171369/

    Picking up his second Emmy of the night for Atlanta—the FX comedy series which he created, and in which he stars—Donald Glover thanked not only his loved ones and the city of Atlanta itself, but more surprisingly, President Donald Trump, “for making black people number one on the most oppressed list.” “He’s the reason I’m probably up here,” Glover said.

    “but more surprisingly, President Donald Trump, “for making black people number one on the most oppressed list.”

    Uh oh. Blacks are Trump’s most oppressed?

    The La Raza Legions and DACA Brigades won’t like that.

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  103. Man, we were all over this one from minute one. Thank you, Steve!
    Down with Fake News. Victory & justice taste delicious.

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  104. @Art Deco
    She claimed to have been gang-raped on broken glass by (among others) a person provably non-existent. There's a reason she assiduously avoided talking to cops.

    You're awfully tiresome.

    More irrelevancies from you. Please stop wasting our time.

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  105. @Broski
    So, Sydney Ember, was it you or your editor who decided to term the rape hoax "unproven"?

    They never lose an opportunity to deceive, do they?

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  106. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco
    There was no accusation against the UVa lacrosse team. It was the Duke lacrosse team. None of the accused players were Jewish (two were Catholic and fairly observant Catholic for 'a that). I was a participant at the time in a forum which included an DC attorney who claimed to know Rae Evans, also a DC attorney and the mother of one of the accused. He says, "If I know Rae Evans, she will see to it that he [Michael Nifong] is squashed like a bug". The Finnerty family is wealthy enough to build buildings for institutions. The Seligmann family was likely the most impecunious of the trio but still quite well-to-do (before legal bills cleaned them out). Michael Nifong filed bogus criminal charges against one family whose style would not be cramped by losing a million bucks and another family whose matriarch knows the system quite well. When Rae Evans said to the interviewer, "Mr. Nifong, you picked on the wrong people," 'twas not bravado.

    Maybe schzlub thinks that Seligmann is a Jewish name? We really need a better class of anti-Semite – like the Cambridge don played by John Gielgud who puts down Harold Abrams in plummy tones in Chariots of Fire. Instead we get Larry the Cable Guy in a trucker hat.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Olorin
    You didn't notice that Schlub has had only 10 comments here?

    Maybe a new handle or new organic commenter.

    More likely one of the SKDKnickerbocker minions.

    SKDK credits themselves with Clinton ally/former DNC head Terry McAuliffe's political career, among other things.

    So anything that happens in or around VA's power centers (of which UVA/Charlottesville is a big one), one might look for their tentacle in the mix.

    One of the left/Dem PR strategies of late is to create doofy caricatures of "anti-Semites" and pepper them, and their doofy assertions, about the Web in order to defeat any efforts to challenge nepotistic propaganda of the counter-semitic sort.

    I'd say you played right into the hand of such a tactic. If I'm right, somebody at SKDK will be grabbing your response as part of an after-action report in a Wednesday morning Skype preen-fest. See? We managed to get this regular Sailer commenter to contribute to the message of We Hate Working Class White Guys! Booyah!

    Of course it could be one of the other firms--Jamestown, Hilltop, AKPD M&M, etc. There's lots of them, they operate out in the open now, often subcontracting to other agencies. But SKDK is my bet. Getting their 2020 strategies ready.

    I've long wondered what Sabrina Rubin's connection to SKDK/other pol PR agencies might be, or them to her. Who put her on to the Jackie Coakley topic, who cultivated her awareness of this thing happening specifically in Virginia, specifically at UVA, a setting into which she would not be likely to maunder.

    Remember that the rape was alleged to occur in September of 2012. Two months later Terry McAuliffe announced intent to run for governor. SKDK won him the election by April of 2013, around the time Rubin was working this story. And this all is the same year one of her previous articles for RS, "The Girl who Conned the Ivy League," was in development for a film script. Someone might have fun connecting various dots on all that.

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  107. Jack D says:
    @Opinionator
    Read this Rolling Stone "retraction." Where does it state that Jackie's account was false. It doesn't. The only "mistake" RS acknowledges here is its not interviewing certain other witnesses.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

    Rolling Stone settled the fraternity's case. As part of the settlement, did it give any acknowledgment that the story was false? I haven't seen that reported.

    Here is Shapiro writing more categorically about whether the story was true. He refers to it as having been "debunked."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/local/education/fraternity-chapter-at-u-va-to-settle-suit-against-rolling-stone-for-165-million/2017/06/13/35012b46-503d-11e7-91eb-9611861a988f_story.html

    You’ve made your point. Time to give it a rest.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo’s favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    Apparently I haven't.
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  108. Rolling Stone was a useful alternative publication in the days when there was no alternative, but with the Internet its position has been undermined to the point that it is irrelevant. The Virginia rape story was an attempt to write about something that is hard to talk about in serious journalism, and the end result shows why. You can’t apply normal standards of critical evaluation to professional victims without looking like a predator.

    Mr. Wenner is wise to cut bait, take the money, however much that is, and now he can go and live peacefully in the Virgin islands with Richard Branson, who was also once a sort of alternative figure before he became so establishment that he had a chain of islands named after his chain of record stores.

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  109. Coemgen says:
    @Opinionator
    Jackie's statements are "evidence."

    Her “statements” are evidence of schizophrenia. That is, if they are not outright lies.

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  110. @Jack D
    You've made your point. Time to give it a rest.

    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo’s favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    Apparently I haven’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Holy, obdurant, labourious belabouring!

    Courts' filings (and findings) are (mostly) a matter of public record. It really is best to read these original documents instead of the piss-poor secondhand stuff in "the papers" – most readers of this site are intelligent enough to understand most such documents with little expert explanation.

    Here is Phi Kappa Psi's complaint. It's allegations (explicitly upheld by the court) include an assertion that "no function of any kind" occurred at the house on 28 September 2012.

    Here are the jury's verdics in the Eramo case.

    Other goodies include:

    A hilarious amicus brief by some creature calling itself the American Society of News Editors, claiming that the verdict finding libel in such cases undermines intrepid reporting.

    Here is the related and equally hilarious deposition of one Sean Woods – a classics majour, from Huntner College, no less; doubtless a candidate for work at Eidelon! – in charge of Rolling Stone's so-called editorial fact-checking. His position is incredibly credulous regarding the incredibly incredible: it amounts to reiterations of "the author and her one source seemed believable to me" with essentially no corroboration for their story.

    Also of interest:

    The ruling on the demurrer in the Eramo case.

    Plaintiff Eramo's brief opposing that demurrer.

    The ruling on the demurrer in the Phi Kappa Psi case.

    A very concise analysis by Akin Gump. ("Investigation revealed the fraternity did not host a party on the night in question.")

    Eugene Volokh's much more needlessly verbose analysis.

    For reasons already explained, no court ever made any finding about the guilt or innocence of anyone of a a related crime (rape, assault, battery, etc.) because no indictment or information was ever filed. You had may as well complain that I am walking around as free as a bird right now without any explicit finding by a court that I am not a rapist – when and if a colourable claim is made that I am indeed a rapist, such that police and prosecutors have cause ro investigate and indict me, then and only then would a court hear the matter. Until then, no case or controversey lies.

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  111. @Art Deco
    She claimed to have been gang-raped on broken glass by (among others) a person provably non-existent. There's a reason she assiduously avoided talking to cops.

    You're awfully tiresome.

    When Rae Evans said to the interviewer, “Mr. Nifong, you picked on the wrong people,” ’twas not bravado.

    The rest of it was equally quotable:

    and you will pay every day for the rest of your life.

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  112. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Abe

    Odd how Muslims and Mexicans don’t want to subscribe to a magazine about the Anglo tradition of rock n roll.
     
    Mexicans may not be big on print subscriptions, but they are pretty solid rock n' roll fans. GUNS N ROSES (the last, great rock n' roll band- sorry, NIRVANA and PEARL JAM, doesn't matter how many records you sold in the day when you so openly hated all your straight, white, male fans) launched a big reunion tour last year, and over half the comments to all the concert clips posted on YOUTUBE are either in Spanish or Portuguese. Rock is probably bigger overall in Latin America than it is in the US right now. So as a lot of us have been saying for years now, the browning of America may actually lead to the revival of a lot of 20th Century white culture, as Mexican-Americans (who anyway intermarry at a good clip with the white working class) have tastes in music and movies (comic book-based blowups being pretty popular right) fairly close to the non-SWPL mainstream.

    The only reason Hispanics like rock and roll is Youtube. Before Youtube, a lot of rock and roll records were hard to get in Hispanic countries (no distribution network), but also because most Hispanics were too poor to buy them. Youtube is free.

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  113. Zach says:
    @Anonymous
    Newsweek, NY Daily News, Gawker, Rolling Stone... plus many more sold or auctioned or just folded.

    The people are waking up to the reality of weaponized media.

    And the Village Voice is shutting down its print edition. The man in the White House must be getting some satisfaction from that.

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  114. Anonym says:
    @Maj. Kong
    There are hundreds of billionaires, and a few dozen with a net worth 25 Billion +. They can easily subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle for thousands of journalists, for years on end. And recall that in many countries such as the UK, the mass media is outright funded by the government via tax and debt. CultMarx has never been profitable.

    Laurene Powell (Steve) Jobs just bought the Atlantic, and completely escaped notice. Apple/Disney can't write off lobbying as an expense, but their largest shareholder can legally lose millions on an unprofitable publication and deduct said losses from their tax return.

    Print media died with the creation of Craigslist, ironically founded by OldMarx, classified ads are the main source of revenue. For magazines, we are probably talking about tobacco, alcohol and car ads, all of which are in steep decline.

    There are hundreds of billionaires, and a few dozen with a net worth 25 Billion +. They can easily subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle for thousands of journalists, for years on end. And recall that in many countries such as the UK, the mass media is outright funded by the government via tax and debt. CultMarx has never been profitable.

    I take your point (and have made it myself many times) but at least the Rolling Stone was once profitable. Wenner was a self made man.

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  115. Olorin says:
    @Mr. Anon

    But the headwinds buffeting the publishing industry, and some costly strategic missteps, have steadily taken a financial toll on Rolling Stone, and a botched story three years ago about an unproven gang rape at the University of Virginia badly bruised the magazine’s journalistic reputation.
     
    But, to be fair to Rolling Stone, a lot of things that are untrue, like the UVA gang-rape story, are unproven.

    QED, and well done, sir.

    Of course “racially motivated gang rape hoax” is too close to the truth for the Old Grey Hag(anah).

    I’m groovin’ (as some put it) on our host’s retweet of Sabrina Rubin’s 11/23/2014 reply to Jeffrey Goldberg. Those former Daily Pennsylvanian editors stick together, by gum.

    See, that’s the problem with the Samizdat Right, whose guys are judged unfunny when judged by the 20th century Borscht Belt or Challahwood or Bube Toob standard.

    But that retweet by our host is absolute comedy gold. All timing, and the material’s already there.

    Has it really been 15 years since this?:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2003/02/28/meet-the-new-yorker-s-jeffrey-goldberg/print

    Whose lead itself includes an enduring media myth (Hearst, Cuba, war):

    https://mediamythalert.wordpress.com/tag/hearst/

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  116. Olorin says:
    @Jack D
    Maybe schzlub thinks that Seligmann is a Jewish name? We really need a better class of anti-Semite - like the Cambridge don played by John Gielgud who puts down Harold Abrams in plummy tones in Chariots of Fire. Instead we get Larry the Cable Guy in a trucker hat.

    You didn’t notice that Schlub has had only 10 comments here?

    Maybe a new handle or new organic commenter.

    More likely one of the SKDKnickerbocker minions.

    SKDK credits themselves with Clinton ally/former DNC head Terry McAuliffe’s political career, among other things.

    So anything that happens in or around VA’s power centers (of which UVA/Charlottesville is a big one), one might look for their tentacle in the mix.

    One of the left/Dem PR strategies of late is to create doofy caricatures of “anti-Semites” and pepper them, and their doofy assertions, about the Web in order to defeat any efforts to challenge nepotistic propaganda of the counter-semitic sort.

    I’d say you played right into the hand of such a tactic. If I’m right, somebody at SKDK will be grabbing your response as part of an after-action report in a Wednesday morning Skype preen-fest. See? We managed to get this regular Sailer commenter to contribute to the message of We Hate Working Class White Guys! Booyah!

    Of course it could be one of the other firms–Jamestown, Hilltop, AKPD M&M, etc. There’s lots of them, they operate out in the open now, often subcontracting to other agencies. But SKDK is my bet. Getting their 2020 strategies ready.

    I’ve long wondered what Sabrina Rubin’s connection to SKDK/other pol PR agencies might be, or them to her. Who put her on to the Jackie Coakley topic, who cultivated her awareness of this thing happening specifically in Virginia, specifically at UVA, a setting into which she would not be likely to maunder.

    Remember that the rape was alleged to occur in September of 2012. Two months later Terry McAuliffe announced intent to run for governor. SKDK won him the election by April of 2013, around the time Rubin was working this story. And this all is the same year one of her previous articles for RS, “The Girl who Conned the Ivy League,” was in development for a film script. Someone might have fun connecting various dots on all that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's surprisingly hard to come off as oblivious as shzlub unless you are a genuine cracker. It was sort of a subtle point anyway - a rant about how the Joos got the lacrosse players off except that none of them were actually Jewish. A false flag operation would not be that subtle.

    Occam's Razor says that, absent further evidence, shzlub is more likely to be the real thing than some false flag operation. "False flag" is always a great excuse when someone from your side acts like an idiot. Sorry not buying.
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  117. Frankie P says:
    @Opinionator
    In what way has it been established that the accusations were false?

    The search for the perpetrators revealed that they were fictional characters, so the proof of the falsehood of the accusations and establishment of innocence through “trial by ordeal”, which it seems is the only thing that will satisfy your demented thirst for some kind of perverse “justice”, will never be found. By the way, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    The rape story could be "established" as false in any number of ways:

    Jackie admits it was false
    RS/Rubin Erdely state it was false
    Charlottesville PD concludes it was false
    Charlottesville PD closes the case (Have they even closed the case?)
    A plaintiff wins a libel case concerning the rape allegations themselves

    Despite all the grumbling here, none of you have cited a single source that demonstrates that the story was false.
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  118. @Frankie P
    The search for the perpetrators revealed that they were fictional characters, so the proof of the falsehood of the accusations and establishment of innocence through "trial by ordeal", which it seems is the only thing that will satisfy your demented thirst for some kind of perverse "justice", will never be found. By the way, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

    The rape story could be “established” as false in any number of ways:

    Jackie admits it was false
    RS/Rubin Erdely state it was false
    Charlottesville PD concludes it was false
    Charlottesville PD closes the case (Have they even closed the case?)
    A plaintiff wins a libel case concerning the rape allegations themselves

    Despite all the grumbling here, none of you have cited a single source that demonstrates that the story was false.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/full-text-charlottesville-police-statement-in-u-va-sex-assault-case/2015/03/23/ec4485bc-d193-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html

    Having exhausted all investigative leads, our investigation concludes that there is no substantive basis to support the account alleged in the Rolling Stone article.

    The investigation further revealed no evidence of a party having taken place at the fraternity house on September 28, 2012.

    Now will you give it a rest?
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  119. @Reg Cæsar
    S/he looks like half their cover models over the years.

    If you removed all the words except "Rolling Stone" and showed that to anyone born between 1901 and 2000, that person would automatically assume this is some rock star.

    Actually, he is a rock star.

    I believe they were going for Jim Morrison.

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  120. Jack D says:
    @Olorin
    You didn't notice that Schlub has had only 10 comments here?

    Maybe a new handle or new organic commenter.

    More likely one of the SKDKnickerbocker minions.

    SKDK credits themselves with Clinton ally/former DNC head Terry McAuliffe's political career, among other things.

    So anything that happens in or around VA's power centers (of which UVA/Charlottesville is a big one), one might look for their tentacle in the mix.

    One of the left/Dem PR strategies of late is to create doofy caricatures of "anti-Semites" and pepper them, and their doofy assertions, about the Web in order to defeat any efforts to challenge nepotistic propaganda of the counter-semitic sort.

    I'd say you played right into the hand of such a tactic. If I'm right, somebody at SKDK will be grabbing your response as part of an after-action report in a Wednesday morning Skype preen-fest. See? We managed to get this regular Sailer commenter to contribute to the message of We Hate Working Class White Guys! Booyah!

    Of course it could be one of the other firms--Jamestown, Hilltop, AKPD M&M, etc. There's lots of them, they operate out in the open now, often subcontracting to other agencies. But SKDK is my bet. Getting their 2020 strategies ready.

    I've long wondered what Sabrina Rubin's connection to SKDK/other pol PR agencies might be, or them to her. Who put her on to the Jackie Coakley topic, who cultivated her awareness of this thing happening specifically in Virginia, specifically at UVA, a setting into which she would not be likely to maunder.

    Remember that the rape was alleged to occur in September of 2012. Two months later Terry McAuliffe announced intent to run for governor. SKDK won him the election by April of 2013, around the time Rubin was working this story. And this all is the same year one of her previous articles for RS, "The Girl who Conned the Ivy League," was in development for a film script. Someone might have fun connecting various dots on all that.

    It’s surprisingly hard to come off as oblivious as shzlub unless you are a genuine cracker. It was sort of a subtle point anyway – a rant about how the Joos got the lacrosse players off except that none of them were actually Jewish. A false flag operation would not be that subtle.

    Occam’s Razor says that, absent further evidence, shzlub is more likely to be the real thing than some false flag operation. “False flag” is always a great excuse when someone from your side acts like an idiot. Sorry not buying.

    Read More
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  121. Jack D says:
    @Opinionator
    The rape story could be "established" as false in any number of ways:

    Jackie admits it was false
    RS/Rubin Erdely state it was false
    Charlottesville PD concludes it was false
    Charlottesville PD closes the case (Have they even closed the case?)
    A plaintiff wins a libel case concerning the rape allegations themselves

    Despite all the grumbling here, none of you have cited a single source that demonstrates that the story was false.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/full-text-charlottesville-police-statement-in-u-va-sex-assault-case/2015/03/23/ec4485bc-d193-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html

    Having exhausted all investigative leads, our investigation concludes that there is no substantive basis to support the account alleged in the Rolling Stone article.

    The investigation further revealed no evidence of a party having taken place at the fraternity house on September 28, 2012.

    Now will you give it a rest?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Thank you. The first statement you excerpted is probably the best support out there for the proposition that the rape story has been established to be false.

    Though it doesn't help lend closure that the police suspended rather than closed the case.
    , @Opinionator
    One thing this fiasco illustrates is how difficult it is to correct a lie such as this one, especially when the guilty parties lack the integrity to come clean. Despite so many facts and circumstances casting doubt on the Jackie/RS story, we actually can barely (if that) state with authority that its falsity has been established. Scary stuff.
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  122. @Opinionator
    While not an explicit legal finding that the rape never happened, there could have been no libel verdict in Eramo’s favor if the jury believed that it had really happened or even that it was reasonable (even if wrong) to believe that it happened.

    Apparently I haven't.

    Holy, obdurant, labourious belabouring!

    Courts’ filings (and findings) are (mostly) a matter of public record. It really is best to read these original documents instead of the piss-poor secondhand stuff in “the papers” – most readers of this site are intelligent enough to understand most such documents with little expert explanation.

    Here is Phi Kappa Psi’s complaint. It’s allegations (explicitly upheld by the court) include an assertion that “no function of any kind” occurred at the house on 28 September 2012.

    Here are the jury’s verdics in the Eramo case.

    Other goodies include:

    A hilarious amicus brief by some creature calling itself the American Society of News Editors, claiming that the verdict finding libel in such cases undermines intrepid reporting.

    Here is the related and equally hilarious deposition of one Sean Woods – a classics majour, from Huntner College, no less; doubtless a candidate for work at Eidelon! – in charge of Rolling Stone‘s so-called editorial fact-checking. His position is incredibly credulous regarding the incredibly incredible: it amounts to reiterations of “the author and her one source seemed believable to me” with essentially no corroboration for their story.

    Also of interest:

    The ruling on the demurrer in the Eramo case.

    Plaintiff Eramo’s brief opposing that demurrer.

    The ruling on the demurrer in the Phi Kappa Psi case.

    A very concise analysis by Akin Gump. (“Investigation revealed the fraternity did not host a party on the night in question.”)

    Eugene Volokh’s much more needlessly verbose analysis.

    For reasons already explained, no court ever made any finding about the guilt or innocence of anyone of a a related crime (rape, assault, battery, etc.) because no indictment or information was ever filed. You had may as well complain that I am walking around as free as a bird right now without any explicit finding by a court that I am not a rapist – when and if a colourable claim is made that I am indeed a rapist, such that police and prosecutors have cause ro investigate and indict me, then and only then would a court hear the matter. Until then, no case or controversey lies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Acknowledged.
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  123. George says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Gotta love those "star-making covers."

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2013/07/rolling_stone_jahar_tsarnaev_boston_bomber_cover.jpg

    Conspiracy theorist here. After the somewhat balanced bomber story, Rolling Stone was targeted for destruction by planting the Haven Honohan forcing its sale to internet richies. Similar to how Gawker was destroyed. Watch out Unz.

    BTW,

    Narrative issues? Google to flood Newsrooms with 1,000 journalists

    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/32581/61/

    Read More
    • Replies: @whoever

    Conspiracy theorist here. After the somewhat balanced bomber story, Rolling Stone was targeted for destruction by planting the Haven Monohan forcing its sale to internet richies. Similar to how Gawker was destroyed. Watch out Unz.
     
    I think The U-Man has got that covered. From The Unz Review FAQ:

    "Does The Unz Review stand behind all the controversial claims made in the articles it publishes?
    Absolutely not! In any event, that would be a logical impossibility, since so many of the writers and their arguments directly contradict one another."

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  124. Jann Wenner, according to NR, apparently helped launch the career of Sailer-favorite Tom Wolfe. NR also convincingly paints Wenner as more of an opportunist than a genuine ideologue.

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  125. dcthrowback says: • Website
    @jim jones
    The Washington Post is growing:

    http://www.politico.com/media/story/2016/12/the-profitable-washington-post-adding-more-than-five-dozen-journalists-004900

    nah, like Harvard and Yale v. no name liberal arts universities, the big brands (NYT, WaP0) will thrive the “democratization” of the industry

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  126. whoever says: • Website
    @George
    Conspiracy theorist here. After the somewhat balanced bomber story, Rolling Stone was targeted for destruction by planting the Haven Honohan forcing its sale to internet richies. Similar to how Gawker was destroyed. Watch out Unz.

    BTW,

    Narrative issues? Google to flood Newsrooms with 1,000 journalists

    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/32581/61/

    Conspiracy theorist here. After the somewhat balanced bomber story, Rolling Stone was targeted for destruction by planting the Haven Monohan forcing its sale to internet richies. Similar to how Gawker was destroyed. Watch out Unz.

    I think The U-Man has got that covered. From The Unz Review FAQ:

    “Does The Unz Review stand behind all the controversial claims made in the articles it publishes?
    Absolutely not! In any event, that would be a logical impossibility, since so many of the writers and their arguments directly contradict one another.”

    Read More
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  127. @Jack D
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/full-text-charlottesville-police-statement-in-u-va-sex-assault-case/2015/03/23/ec4485bc-d193-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html

    Having exhausted all investigative leads, our investigation concludes that there is no substantive basis to support the account alleged in the Rolling Stone article.

    The investigation further revealed no evidence of a party having taken place at the fraternity house on September 28, 2012.

    Now will you give it a rest?

    Thank you. The first statement you excerpted is probably the best support out there for the proposition that the rape story has been established to be false.

    Though it doesn’t help lend closure that the police suspended rather than closed the case.

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  128. @Autochthon
    Holy, obdurant, labourious belabouring!

    Courts' filings (and findings) are (mostly) a matter of public record. It really is best to read these original documents instead of the piss-poor secondhand stuff in "the papers" – most readers of this site are intelligent enough to understand most such documents with little expert explanation.

    Here is Phi Kappa Psi's complaint. It's allegations (explicitly upheld by the court) include an assertion that "no function of any kind" occurred at the house on 28 September 2012.

    Here are the jury's verdics in the Eramo case.

    Other goodies include:

    A hilarious amicus brief by some creature calling itself the American Society of News Editors, claiming that the verdict finding libel in such cases undermines intrepid reporting.

    Here is the related and equally hilarious deposition of one Sean Woods – a classics majour, from Huntner College, no less; doubtless a candidate for work at Eidelon! – in charge of Rolling Stone's so-called editorial fact-checking. His position is incredibly credulous regarding the incredibly incredible: it amounts to reiterations of "the author and her one source seemed believable to me" with essentially no corroboration for their story.

    Also of interest:

    The ruling on the demurrer in the Eramo case.

    Plaintiff Eramo's brief opposing that demurrer.

    The ruling on the demurrer in the Phi Kappa Psi case.

    A very concise analysis by Akin Gump. ("Investigation revealed the fraternity did not host a party on the night in question.")

    Eugene Volokh's much more needlessly verbose analysis.

    For reasons already explained, no court ever made any finding about the guilt or innocence of anyone of a a related crime (rape, assault, battery, etc.) because no indictment or information was ever filed. You had may as well complain that I am walking around as free as a bird right now without any explicit finding by a court that I am not a rapist – when and if a colourable claim is made that I am indeed a rapist, such that police and prosecutors have cause ro investigate and indict me, then and only then would a court hear the matter. Until then, no case or controversey lies.

    Acknowledged.

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  129. It seems that it may be a fire sale after all since the UVa fraternity suit is back on:

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/2017_0919_rolling_stone_2nd_circuit.pdf

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  130. @Jack D
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/full-text-charlottesville-police-statement-in-u-va-sex-assault-case/2015/03/23/ec4485bc-d193-11e4-8fce-3941fc548f1c_story.html

    Having exhausted all investigative leads, our investigation concludes that there is no substantive basis to support the account alleged in the Rolling Stone article.

    The investigation further revealed no evidence of a party having taken place at the fraternity house on September 28, 2012.

    Now will you give it a rest?

    One thing this fiasco illustrates is how difficult it is to correct a lie such as this one, especially when the guilty parties lack the integrity to come clean. Despite so many facts and circumstances casting doubt on the Jackie/RS story, we actually can barely (if that) state with authority that its falsity has been established. Scary stuff.

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  131. Brutusale says:
    @Opinionator
    The Charlottesville PD could say they believe the fraternity is innocent. Isn't that what happened in the Duke Lacrosse case?

    Rolling Stone could say they believe the story is false. Or Jackie could state it is false.

    If the fraternity or university had sued RS for defamation as to the story and won, that would seem to "establish" the story's falsity.

    Hey, Captain Question Mark, for you Ron should add a button to Agree/Disagree section labeled “Aspergery Pedant”!

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/13/media/rolling-stone-fraternity-settlement/index.html

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/19/552090031/fraternity-members-defamation-case-against-rolling-stone-can-proceed-court-says

    Rolling Stone paid off the fraternity trying to avoid a collective defamation suit, but now they have to face the suits from the defamed fraternity members. The $4+ million they’ve paid out so far comes from their insurance company, but I think any further judgments come out of the magazine’s coffers.

    Who’d want to buy a publication saddled with the uncertainty of maybe (probably) having to pay out millions in lawsuit losses?

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  132. Brutusale says:
    @yaqub the mad scientist
    Creem in its heyday was a better magazine. It was the cool rock mag for flyover people.

    I subscribed to Creem. The talented Dave Marsh and Lester Bangs (who Wenner fired from his fawning publication because Bangs wouldn’t fawn), like the magazine itself, were about the music.

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  133. pyrrhus says:
    @whoever

    Susan Lydon

     

    Another famous and influential person I never heard of. Thanks for bringing her up.

    One evening after work there was a lot of mess in the office, and when she asked if he would help clean it up he said no, that was “chick work.”
     
    Well, there's a reason there's such a thing as feminism. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, and everyone gets blown to feathers and flinders.

    It had nothing to do with sexism. Since when does the owner clean up after the employees?

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  134. @Androgynous Misogynist
    Bob Dylan looks pretty good in that photo.

    Plastic surgery does wonders but not in this case. To give Dylan his new look they had to pay a contractor to do a search and “purchase” for a suitable body transplant. But I don’t think they thought of improving the voice.

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