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James Damore in WSJ: "Why I Was Fired by Google"
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From the Wall Street Journal:

Why I Was Fired by Google

By James Damore Aug. 11, 2017 3:54 p.m. ET 1304 COMMENTS

… How did Google, the company that hires the smartest people in the world, become so ideologically driven and intolerant of scientific debate and reasoned argument?

We all have moral preferences and beliefs about how the world is and should be. Having these views challenged can be painful, so we tend to avoid people with differing values and to associate with those who share our values. This self-segregation has become much more potent in recent decades. …

Google is a particularly intense echo chamber because it is in the middle of Silicon Valley and is so life-encompassing as a place to work. With free food, internal meme boards and weekly companywide meetings, Google becomes a huge part of its employees’ lives. Some even live on campus. For many, including myself, working at Google is a major part of their identity, almost like a cult with its own leaders and saints, all believed to righteously uphold the sacred motto of “Don’t be evil.”

Here’s an excerpt from Dave Eggers’ dystopian 2013 novel The Circle about working at one of these giant Silicon Valley firms.

Echo chambers maintain themselves by creating a shared spirit and keeping discussion confined within certain limits. As Noam Chomsky once observed, “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.”

But echo chambers also have to guard against dissent and opposition. Whether it’s in our homes, online or in our workplaces, a consensus is maintained by shaming people into conformity or excommunicating them if they persist in violating taboos. Public shaming serves not only to display the virtue of those doing the shaming but also warns others that the same punishment awaits them if they don’t conform.

In my document, I committed heresy against the Google creed by stating that not all disparities between men and women that we see in the world are the result of discriminatory treatment.

In other words, Damore defended Google’s behavior by dissenting from Google’s propaganda.

When I first circulated the document about a month ago to our diversity groups and individuals at Google, there was no outcry or charge of misogyny. I engaged in reasoned discussion with some of my peers on these issues, but mostly I was ignored.

Everything changed when the document went viral within the company and the wider tech world. Those most zealously committed to the diversity creed—that all differences in outcome are due to differential treatment and all people are inherently the same—could not let this public offense go unpunished.

They sent angry emails to Google’s human-resources department and everyone up my management chain, demanding censorship, retaliation and atonement.

Upper management tried to placate this surge of outrage by shaming me and misrepresenting my document, but they couldn’t really do otherwise: The mob would have set upon anyone who openly agreed with me or even tolerated my views. …

If Google continues to ignore the very real issues raised by its diversity policies and corporate culture, it will be walking blind into the future—unable to meet the needs of its remarkable employees and sure to disappoint its billions of users.

Also, as I pointed out in Taki’s Magazine on March 22, 2017 in my column on the growing intellectual intolerance in Blue State America, “Diversity vs. Debate,” there is a third group who ought to be concerned:

That raises a question that ought to be of interest to investors …

Commenter Mike P. suggests:

 
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  1. Google is essentially an advertising company. How does this whole thing work as advertising?

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  2. Respond to this post if you’ve sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn’t make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Duck and Bing are inferior products. Use an adblock and Google gets no revenue.

    Youtube does not need to be directly profitable if it helps Google target ads elsewhere and stops its rivals making money with similar sites.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I've been using Microsoft's Bing for search for years. Works as well as Google, two fewer characters to type.
    , @Anonymous
    DDG has been my primary search engine since 2014 because of consistency: it gives everyone who puts in a given regular expression on a given day the same results.
    , @Ivy
    Google search does not darken my browser.
    , @Stebbing Heuer
    Yes have left Chrome and Google search. Switched over to Brave.

    Will be switching my accounts away from gmail this week, am in the process of comparing providers.
    , @Hrw-500
    I also use DuckDuckGo and also Startpage.

    As for Patreon, maybe Lauren Southern could use Hatreon.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X38vPiuZt2g&t=47s

    And for alternatives to Youtube, I mentionned some of them in another comment.

    On a off-topic sidenote, I checked today then Ex-army's blog had vanished. Here's the more recent archived post. http://archive.is/hbxzK

    , @The ol' gaffer
    I uninstalled google chrome this morning, and sent a message to the goolag explaining why: "I don't like censorship."
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  3. res says:

    Recode has another article on this. The title is “We’ve studied gender and STEM for 25 years. The science doesn’t support the Google memo.” The neat thing is that despite that 25 years of studying and invocation of science they can’t seem to be bothered to quote a single actual research study. Fascinating.

    https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore

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    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    There were research studies cited in there. A nice note about Simon Baron-Cohen's study, which has not been replicated. But then, what in psych is these days?
    , @WowJustWow
    "Many reputable scientific authorities have weighed in on this question, including a major paper in the journal Science debunking the idea that the brains of males and females are so different that they should be educated in single-sex classrooms."

    Wow, what a great piece of evidence against something nobody in the modern world is arguing for.

    In other links, Scott Alexander knocked this one out of the park. This might actually stand a good chance of injecting some sanity into the current National Monologue on Gender: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/
    , @aug
    maybe you should have read to the end of the article on Recode, a number of studies are mentioned.
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  4. What ever became of Mencius’ Revopedia? We could be building an AR Wikipedia.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Main_Page
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Infogalactic:Introduction
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  5. @res
    Recode has another article on this. The title is "We’ve studied gender and STEM for 25 years. The science doesn’t support the Google memo." The neat thing is that despite that 25 years of studying and invocation of science they can't seem to be bothered to quote a single actual research study. Fascinating.
    https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore

    There were research studies cited in there. A nice note about Simon Baron-Cohen’s study, which has not been replicated. But then, what in psych is these days?

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    • Replies: @res
    Could you point specifically to your examples? The Simon Baron-Cohen study was cited by Damore and the Recode article neither referenced (by name, year, or link) nor quoted from it. They did refer to it though, vaguely. I suppose in some circles that counts as citing a study. Just like the bit quoted by WowJustWow: “Many reputable scientific authorities have weighed in on this question, including a major paper in the journal Science debunking the idea that the brains of males and females are so different that they should be educated in single-sex classrooms.” Cool, what paper was that exactly?

    Neither of those looks like a proper way to use a reference to support an argument. But if you are just trying to throw around FUD with a veneer of science...then mission accomplished.
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  6. donut says:

    I don’t play golf but I know you do Steve so here are some tips from a great Canadian-American golfer :

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  7. @res
    Recode has another article on this. The title is "We’ve studied gender and STEM for 25 years. The science doesn’t support the Google memo." The neat thing is that despite that 25 years of studying and invocation of science they can't seem to be bothered to quote a single actual research study. Fascinating.
    https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore

    “Many reputable scientific authorities have weighed in on this question, including a major paper in the journal Science debunking the idea that the brains of males and females are so different that they should be educated in single-sex classrooms.”

    Wow, what a great piece of evidence against something nobody in the modern world is arguing for.

    In other links, Scott Alexander knocked this one out of the park. This might actually stand a good chance of injecting some sanity into the current National Monologue on Gender: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    I'll happily argue for it. I should have been educated in single sex classrooms. You know what it's like to be a 17yo boy with a hot girl wearing a tank top and tight shorts sitting a few feet in front of you suggestively twirling her hair with her finger? Do you think that kind of environment is conducive to paying attention to what the teacher is saying?

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.
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  8. newrouter says:

    V. Havel:

    http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML

    “BETWEEN the aims of the post-totalitarian system and the aims of life there is a yawning abyss: while life, in its essence, moves toward plurality, diversity, independent self-constitution, and self organization, in short, toward the fulfillment of its own freedom, the post-totalitarian system demands conformity, uniformity, and discipline. While life ever strives to create new and improbable structures, the post-totalitarian system contrives to force life into its most probable states. The aims of the system reveal its most essential characteristic to be introversion, a movement toward being ever more completely and unreservedly itself, which means that the radius of its influence is continually widening as well. This system serves people only to the extent necessary to ensure that people will serve it. Anything beyond this, that is to say, anything which leads people to overstep their predetermined roles is regarded by the system as an attack upon itself. And in this respect it is correct: every instance of such transgression is a genuine denial of the system. It can be said, therefore, that the inner aim of the post-totalitarian system is not mere preservation of power in the hands of a ruling clique, as appears to be the case at first sight. Rather, the social phenomenon of self-preservation is subordinated to something higher, to a kind of blind automatism which drives the system. No matter what position individuals hold in the hierarchy of power, they are not considered by the system to be worth anything in themselves, but only as things intended to fuel and serve this automatism. For this reason, an individual’s desire for power is admissible only in so far as its direction coincides with the direction of the automatism of the system.

    Ideology, in creating a bridge of excuses between the system and the individual, spans the abyss between the aims of the system and the aims of life. It pretends that the requirements of the system derive from the requirements of life. It is a world of appearances trying to pass for reality.

    The post-totalitarian system touches people at every step, but it does so with its ideological gloves on. This is why life in the system is so thoroughly permeated with hypocrisy and lies: government by bureaucracy is called popular government; the working class is enslaved in the name of the working class; the complete degradation of the individual is presented as his ultimate liberation; depriving people of information is called making it available; the use of power to manipulate is called the public control of power, and the arbitrary abuse of power is called observing the legal code; the repression of culture is called its development; the expansion of imperial influence is presented as support for the oppressed; the lack of free expression becomes the highest form of freedom; farcical elections become the highest form of democracy; banning independent thought becomes the most scientific of world views; military occupation becomes fraternal assistance. Because the regime is captive to its own lies, it must falsify everything. It falsifies the past. It falsifies the present, and it falsifies the future. It falsifies statistics. It pretends not to possess an omnipotent and unprincipled police apparatus. It pretends to respect human rights. It pretends to persecute no one. It pretends to fear nothing. It pretends to pretend nothing.

    Individuals need not believe all these mystifications, but they must behave as though they did, or they must at least tolerate them in silence, or get along well with those who work with them. For this reason, however, they must live within a lie. They need not accept the lie. It is enough for them to have accepted their life with it and in it. For by this very fact, individuals confirm the system, fulfill the system, make the system, are the system.”

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  9. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Google a Goocult? The GooCorrexClan.

    Googhouls or Googhoulies?

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  10. As I have argued many times:The US state religion of “The Blessings of Diversity” is a direct consequence of the Cold War Era anti-Commie Crusade which was a direct road to the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act…a short…hop…and a skip to the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act which was, and still is justified by the state religion of “the Blessings of Diversity”(does this include bestiality?…. or as the late Brother Theodore would pronounce it:best..chuality…)because we are a better people than the Russkies!!!….This industrial sewage is the basis of “Putin interfered with the 2016 election!!!…let’s start a war with Conservative Christian Russia in the name of Gay Rights!!!” meme…

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Peter Brimelow has talked about "Hitler's Revenge," in the form of the Western democracies selfdestructing by welcoming racially different invaders. I've sometimes wondered whether the elements you identify in your post could be termed "Kruschev's Revenge."
    , @unpc downunder
    The anti-communist argument has also been used to explain America's shift towards free trade, which happened at the same time as the change in immigration policy. It's a kind of soft imperialism. Let others have access to your borders and markets and let them see how wonderful your system is and encourage them to follow your lead. While this might work in the case of Latin America, most of America's serious rivals have their own way of doing things and no amount of liberalism is going to persuade Russia or China or Japan to become imperial vassals of US corporations and NGOs.
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  11. “Many reputable scientific authorities have weighed in on this question, including a major paper in the journal Science debunking the idea that the brains of males and females are so different that they should be educated in single-sex classrooms.”

    Wow, what a great piece of evidence against something nobody in the modern world is arguing for.

    The argument for single-sex education for girls was that they wouldn’t be intimidated by boys’ aggressive and disruptive behavior, which was a popular complaint about why girls didn’t do well in maths and sciences. Also, pubescent and adolescent girls would be able to compartmentalize their peer competition for the attention of boys into the hours before and after class.

    I think this actually hit too close to the Catholic/parochial model of single sex education and the WASPy girls’ academies for the liking of the left. I think the statistics are that there is improvement (I don’t know how you would control for the selection bias), but that girls still didn’t totally close the achievement gap in STEM subjects.

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  12. Darin says:

    Damore is determined not to waste his five minutes of fame. Good for him. Add the coming lawsuit he cannot lose, and you will see US are not yet Stalin-era USSR.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/james-damore-may-win-nlra-legal-case-google-2017-8

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  13. Achilles says:

    Just leaked on Reddit by GoogleAnon:

    BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

    Hi, everyone and welcome to our weekly TGIF. Hopefully all the Googlers in our satellite offices can see me.

    [in unison response] Hi Sundar!

    Thank you, thank you.

    Before taking questions, I want to discuss a couple of new Google initiatives I am launching.

    I just returned from a meeting with the General Counsel of our parent company, Alphabet, and his outside legal team. In the meeting, I agreed that in the future I will not fire Googlers for expressing what I consider to be impure thoughts about female workers.

    But after leaving the meeting, I thought to myself, surely there must be a solution to this problem! After all, we are Googlers! Innovate, I told myself!

    Accordingly, I am announcing today that in lieu of terminating people with improper thoughts such as James Damore, in the future we will continue to employ them within Google and re-assign such persons to our newly-instituted caste of Ungoogleables.

    Ungoogleables will be an entirely separate caste within Google, and their main jobs will be emptying trash cans, cleaning the bathroom facilities and debugging code.

    In order to insure Safe Spaces for our higher-caste Googlers, the Ungoogleables will not be permitted to enter Safe Space areas at times when higher-caste Googlers are present, and will be provided separate eating facilities and restrooms.

    However, the fact that in the future we will be tolerating the presence of persons like James Damore at our company does not mean that we are tolerating misogyny, and counteracting that brings me to our second initiative.

    As you may know, our Go programming language was named in honor of cows, as the Sanskrit word for cow is “go.” This is because in the most advanced societies on earth, cows are venerated, honored and protected.

    Therefore, in order to preempt any possibility of inappropriate thoughts about female employees, our senior women Googlers will be bestowed by the company with the honorific title of ‘Blessed Cow.’

    And let me just give a word of warning to Ungoogleables and other misogynists: we will not tolerate any criticism of our Blessed Cows.

    As a result of their status, Blessed Cows may walk wherever they like in our company and insert themselves into any active project they may happen upon, in order that we may benefit from their superior wisdom and technical abilities.

    As always, I appreciate your feedback and in particular would encourage any Googlers with opposing opinions to speak out.

    Thank you.

    END TRANSCRIPT

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    • LOL: ic1000, res
    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    V. clever.

    Drown them in wit. They are naked emperors. Make them look like the ridiculous nitwits that they are.
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  14. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Upper management tried to placate this surge of outrage by shaming me and misrepresenting my document, but they couldn’t really do otherwise: The mob would have set upon anyone who openly agreed with me or even tolerated my views. …

    Don’t blame the mob, kiddo. Mob-think is the product of elite propaganda via control of media and education.

    There was a time when the mob didn’t think this way. Back then, the mob would have laughed at ‘gay marriage’. How did the mob become homomaniacal? They watch TV the beams elite propaganda into their eyes and brains.

    Electricity brought energy to the masses but it really empowered the elites, esp with advent of radio and TV.

    Before electricity, the elites could reach the masses only slowly. Most people lived in local communities and cultures with own press, values, and perspective. There was more local input and output since each town was separated from elite centers. To have news and culture, locals had to make their own to a large extent. It’s like every western town had its own newspaper with own spin and flavor.

    But with rise of electricity, there was the movies, and all theaters showed the same image. Even so, movies were something you went to. At home and other places, you were independent of centralized culture. But then, with radio and TV, the centralized culture of LA and NY could be beamed into every home to create a national and then global monoculture. There was no more need for local production since what was made in LA or NY could be beamed into every radio and tv in every community. So, the same set of images, sounds, messages, and narratives entered every home. Even though everyone thought of his radio and tv as ‘mine’, what came through them belonged to a handful of professionals in LA or NY. The people only owned the gadgets. What came through the machines was made by others and came to own them, shape them, control them. And even though everyone felt privacy by watching in their own homes or bedrooms, they were all watching the SAME thing that all others were watching privately. So, a few people in LA or NY could control the eyes and minds of ALL Americans from biggest city to smallest village.

    This is finally changing again with the internet. In a way, the internet has empowered the elites more than ever by offering even more access to the masses all over to what LA and NY have to offer. But there is one big difference from old electronic media. Feedback and local/personal production. Prior to the internet, media was a one way street. LA and NY made the stuff, and we consumed. Even ‘choice’ in more channels didn’t change this fact. They made it, we consumed it.
    But with internet, people can make their own content. And this content can be shot back at the powers that be in the form of comments or manifestos. Or, the masses could choose to just totally ignore the Power and communicate with one another. And in a way, the individuals have an advantage over institutions. Whereas institutions have to play by PC rules and other strictures or codes of conduct(sometimes principled, but often rigged to favor certain narratives or interests), individuals can just say whatever they want. Molyneux may be wrong or faulty on lots of stuff, but he can speak freely in ways that academics and media folks cannot. He has nothing to lose…. and for that reason, viewers find him far more refreshing than talking heads on TV controlled by puppet strings or Oleannic academics.

    So, Google finally decided to get ADL and other control-freaks to censor and rig platforms like Youtube. After all, Trump wouldn’t have won without alternative media.

    Anyway, Damore is wrong to blame the ‘mob’. The mob is the way it is because of the glob.
    Glob used media and academia to mold the mind of mob.

    But perhaps the next generation will grow up with less such conditioning if they grow up engaging with internet and bypassing the establishmentarian narratives and agendas.

    Internet has been a big thing among millennials but an alternative right and such voices only came into the open in recent yrs. For too long, the ‘right’ was either soulless libertarianism or Con Inc.

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    • Agree: Thea
    • Replies: @Romanian
    You have basically described managerialism as defined by Sam Francis. I am slowly reading through his magnum opus, Leviathan and Its Enemies. I heartily recommend it.

    Basically, he argues that the defining feature of managerialism is the shift from the local institutions, local churches, local government and entrepreneur-run businesses of the bourgeoisie to the mass organizations of the managerial elite. These elites are empowered not by ownership, which is diffuse (think stockholders in a corp or citizens in a republic), but by control, which comes to them by virtue of the specialized skills required to operate these organizations. He defines three types - mass corporations, mass media and mass government - and says that communism was simply a coercive form of managerialism, contrasted with the manipulative soft managerialism of the West. Mass organizations became necessary with the populations explosion and technological development, but the shift was gradual, with the bourgeoisie and the prescriptive elites (aristocrats) maintaining some power and influence. But there is a continuous battle, just like the bourgeois once supported nation-states, constitutional monarchies and parliamentary republics to rob the prescriptive elites they were replacing of their power.

    He then cites elite theory, particularly Gaetano Mosca's idea of "political formula", which is how an elite group rationalizes its hold on power - God wills it, I was born to it, it is just and moral, we must protect from the Great Satan etc. Our managerial elites have such a formula based on equality, past sins, current slights etc, to rationalize opening borders and freeing (managing) trade, which enhances their power at the expense of the other groups. This is why Congress can't seem to get anything done anymore. Meanwhile, the managerial elites increasingly identify as a class with its own tastes and beliefs and moral code, even though there are still conflicts between the variants in each type of mass organizations. Fundamentally, however, they find more in common among themselves and people like them from other countries than with their own countrymen. Davos Man is simply the elites of the managerial elite, especially if you look at who attends.

    Read the book. It will blow your mind. It is "Das Kapital" for the Right.
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  15. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Howard Dorke vs Goohey.

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  16. An interesting comment on Brooks’ NY Times column:

    neal Westmont 34 minutes ago

    Observation: Google has run a coding competition (Code Jam) since 2003. It attracts tens of thousands of applicants now, Including thousands of woman to compete in a multiple round contest leading up to a feld of 20 finalists. This is a “hard” advance competition – no bonus points awarded for, say, for lacking a penis. Google has used it to identify their best and brightest job prospects.

    There has never been a female finalist. Ever. Unless you count “Code Jam for Women”, rolled out in 2014.

    Probability alone would say that if only 5-10% of entrants were woman, and they were as likely to to have the same skill sets and ability as men, that we should have seen a female finalist by now. The numbers actually match nicely with the list of top Chess players, only which only 1 woman can really say she could/can compete at the highest level. None of this say anything about any individual male or female, other than that testing and real world competition have shown that in (at least) certain mathematical and spatial cognition tasks, there are far more men than women who are above average to the tune of multiple standard deviations. No doubt there are other tasks where men are more likely to appear on the low end. But that is not a useful and employable skill set at google.

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  17. Luke Lea says:

    The guy is smart like Updike too.

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    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    He's pretty ignorant if thinks that feminists want men and women to have equal achievement in everything. What's his explanation for the fact that feminists only ever protest when men excel at something, and even cite examples of male failure relative to women as evidence that women should be exceeding men in the areas where they're still behind. Listen to almost any uneducated person criticize feminism and feminists and you'll see that they understand what this guy can't seem to.

    Although Updike may have been the same way. I don't know much about Updike.
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  18. @Luke Lea
    The guy is smart like Updike too.

    He’s pretty ignorant if thinks that feminists want men and women to have equal achievement in everything. What’s his explanation for the fact that feminists only ever protest when men excel at something, and even cite examples of male failure relative to women as evidence that women should be exceeding men in the areas where they’re still behind. Listen to almost any uneducated person criticize feminism and feminists and you’ll see that they understand what this guy can’t seem to.

    Although Updike may have been the same way. I don’t know much about Updike.

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  19. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    I raised the point about investors here.

    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.

    The other risk is that this incident gives more power to the Bannon wing that wants to treat Google and Facebook like Ma Bell.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.

    This doesn't seem like much of a risk. Plenty of talent to choose from, and not many competitors.
    , @Horzabky
    "Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires."

    And the best and brightest applicants, still hired by Google, will work like diversity hires after a few years. Especially after the diversity hires are promoted ahead of them. You do in one hour what it takes a diversity hire a whole day to do (if he/she does it at all), and eventually you see him/her promoted ahead of you. You'll soon find ways to make that one hour fill the whole workday.

    Well, half a workday. Because you'll still be expected to work more than the diversity hires.

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  20. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Upper management tried to placate this surge of outrage by shaming me and misrepresenting my document, but they couldn’t really do otherwise:

    This is unusually perceptive. He gets it that Google was quite ‘OK’ with its gender diversity before the firm started getting a beat down from SJWs.

    They were reasonably fair regarding hiring practices before they were called into question. And are now trying really, really hard to be fair to the extent that they — per Damore — are biasing employee practices — to prove it.

    It’s also interesting that this ‘inflammatory’ document was distributed and discussed and mostly ignored for a month until it leaked and went viral.

    As a business, this is simply too distracting and they need to make it go away. Damore is in a great position for a generous settlement. I might take the approach of offering a number to make it go away immediately. $10m. Every adult in the room knows there will be some sort of settlement, and the major limitation on the amount is that it needs to low enough to not seem ‘unseemly’. Like what a good baseball player makes in a year.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    It’s also interesting that this ‘inflammatory’ document was distributed and discussed and mostly ignored for a month until it leaked and went viral.
     
    Same thing (delayed reaction) happened at Evergreen State.
    , @Pericles

    I might take the approach of offering a number to make it go away immediately.

     

    It's the SJWs who will get paid, of course (and $10m is chump change). They will also get various concessions by Google; you can probably imagine the laundry list. Just how the game is played, playa.

    The big question for Google is what to do with all the fucking white males who didn't like what happened but aren't permitted to complain by their pasty but zealous commissars. Perhaps, the FWM will think, the grass is greener at Apple or Microsoft after all? That might get bad. The obvious counter is to give everyone an eye-watering raise to forget the boot in their face just got worse, and sufficient to forget that the SJW next to them will get the same raise and other goodies too. I presume there are some special management projects running spreadsheets on this right now.

    (If I were in Google top management, I'd then start quietly managing out the disastrous HR and managers who have perpetuated this. But inexplicably I'm not.)

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  21. Mike P. says:

    Supposing the company thinks…I think so too!

    Read More
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  22. Lot says:
    @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    Duck and Bing are inferior products. Use an adblock and Google gets no revenue.

    Youtube does not need to be directly profitable if it helps Google target ads elsewhere and stops its rivals making money with similar sites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    Disable auto-suggest and Search history, install uBlock Origin.
    , @TomSchmidt
    I suppose people on the Right could simply advocate Adblock to cut off their oxygen supply.

    It is a better engine for most searches. For ones with an UN-PC result, no, if the commissars have caught the result.
    , @MB
    The real problem is that the Goolag screens for what it considers inappropriate content and filters out the politically incorrect its technically superior product/algorithm notwithstanding. (Ahem, how do we know this? Because we are a nonperson on the Big G, but not on Bing.) Even Ixquick which keeps your IP private, uses G unfortunately.
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  23. eah says:

    our diversity groups

    Like someone said: he talks (writes) like he still works there, or would like to still be working there — and what the fucking hell is a ‘diversity group’? — der Damone ist allgemein sympathisch, so it’s not a bad thing that he is currently the public face of HBD-lite — but he was also willing to engage with ‘diversity groups’, which seems rather alpha-lite to me.

    And court decisions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    >der Damone

    Damore natürlich -- ich entschuldige mich bei Herrn Damore.
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  24. @Dave Pinsen
    I raised the point about investors here.

    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.


    https://twitter.com/Benzinga/status/896057377052516353

    The other risk is that this incident gives more power to the Bannon wing that wants to treat Google and Facebook like Ma Bell.
    https://twitter.com/SeekingAlpha/status/890927965218889728

    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.

    This doesn’t seem like much of a risk. Plenty of talent to choose from, and not many competitors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Besides, the competitors are similarly in the grip of the diversity cult.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Apple, Amazon, Facebook, and Microsoft are all in the market for Damore types, and for more senior scientists and other experts, to do R&D on their moonshot projects. The Business Insider article I linked to talks about the lengths they go to attract and retain them. All else equal, do you think this week's events make Google a more or less attractive employer to them?
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  25. boomstick says:

    I wonder about the long-term Damore effects. Google bagged their post-firing justification meeting not out of fear of attacks by the alt-right, put because it came to a conclusion that was unpopular with a great many of their employees. It was safer to pretend to be in danger instead of presenting an unpopular idea to their employees.

    Would Google employees continue to work for Google if Google management is unpopular? They make a lot of money, but will they a decade from now?

    Read More
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  26. Moshe says:

    I have a word for all a ya silent on Trump’s unprecedented war mongering because you have such confidence in his 7D Chess endgame:

    Neo-neoconservatives.

    Read More
    • Troll: Forbes
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Trump is stupid and may start an idiotic war. Let's hope it's Venezuela, which has the lowest chance of actually going nuclear or a world war.

    North Korea, the South China Sea, Ukraine (okay, this is not Trump's fault mostly), Syria (he shares responsibility but maybe not the main culprit), these all have the potential to blow the world up.
    , @Anonymous
    I thought Trump was going to put America first and cool it on all of these wars. I don't know what he's doing. It seems ridiculous to me.
    , @Thea
    He's clearly their puppet.

    If this Israelis impeach ( or whatever the equivalent there is ) Bibi, Trump may try to step in. Imagine the unintended consequences of that move.
    , @Paul Yarbles
    This thread is about James Damore and the Google memo. And yet you feel the need to insert a completely off-topic anti-Trump comment. You, sir, are a sad victim of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
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  27. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    I’ve been using Microsoft’s Bing for search for years. Works as well as Google, two fewer characters to type.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    It's been improving, enough so that it makes a decent replacement. Their suggestions after search seem more topical.

    I'd guess the patent runs out on PageRank soon. That would invite an open-source competitor who guarantees privacy to jump in.
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  28. I’m not amazed how many people here, on the Most Important Blog Ever, think the goal here is filthy lucre (“HE GUNNA SETTLE BIG”) and not taking the fight to one of lairs of the Left.

    If anything, its becoming more obvious that something other than MAKE DEM BUX is driving Damore. Good man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I agree. (Agree button not working for me.)
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  29. Anon7 says:

    There’s a different way to understand this situation. It’s the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings – not the work.

    What if you had a room full of bright men and women in their twenties, and you said “I’ve got loads of amazing jobs that pay about $100,000 per year with great perks, it’s right in the middle of the most beautiful and vital cities in the world, and you’ll be working for one of the world’s most prestigious companies, one that leads the most important technological revolutions of our time. You’ll be a part of it!”

    “Oh, and we give about 80% of these jobs to men.”

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women’s natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It’s those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!

    If everyone wants to know about men and women, Google should start paying minimum wage, find crappy office parks in Oklahoma, rename their company something bland. Then you’d find out who really needs to do that kind of work.

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.

    If companies started paying long-haul truck drivers $100K per year, and glamorized the job, created fabulous destinations instead of crappy warehouses, and raised the status of the companies that are the lifeblood of the American economy, what would happen? Women would demand those jobs! They’d demand more changes, they’d demand training for girls, Trucker Barbie, the works.

    It’s the prestigious Google jobs they want, with all the trimmings – not the work.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Space Ghost
    $100,000 per year? Try $250,000. $100K is barely middle class in San Francisco
    , @Bill P

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.
     
    Trucking isn't that bad. Pay is more like 40-80k/year (six figures for union drivers with seniority) and you sit on your butt most of the time. It's kind of hard to find guys who are willing to be out on the road for weeks at a time, have spotless driving records, never fail a piss or breath test and can easily pass the required physicals. For a guy from some poor southern or western town trucking still is a ticket into the middle class.

    You want an example of an all-male occupation that really truly sucks? Try logging. Low pay, extremely dangerous, backbreaking labor and pesky environmentalists always trying to get in your way.
    , @Anonymous

    There’s a different way to understand this situation. It’s the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings – not the work.
    ........

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women’s natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It’s those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afoBIMQzENE

    Same thing at a different level. But the Navy has a way to separate those who want to DO the work from those who SAY they do.
    , @Romanian
    A very perceptive comment! I will remember this!
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  30. snorlax says:
    @TomSchmidt
    What ever became of Mencius' Revopedia? We could be building an AR Wikipedia.
    Read More
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Excellent. Switching to InfoGalactic when possible.

    CANON FOUR

    No griefing.

    All griefers, which is to say trolls, vandals, rules lawyers, and ideological crusaders, will be aggressively anticipated, trapped, and exterminated. Don't bother playing word games or trying to hide behind pedantic interpretations of the rules. Infogalactic's Starlords are under direct orders to freeze any account that appears to belong to a griefer and to permanently ban those confirmed as such. Don't try to be sneaky. You're not going to fool anyone.

     

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  31. @anon

    Upper management tried to placate this surge of outrage by shaming me and misrepresenting my document, but they couldn’t really do otherwise:
     
    This is unusually perceptive. He gets it that Google was quite 'OK' with its gender diversity before the firm started getting a beat down from SJWs.

    They were reasonably fair regarding hiring practices before they were called into question. And are now trying really, really hard to be fair to the extent that they -- per Damore -- are biasing employee practices -- to prove it.

    It's also interesting that this 'inflammatory' document was distributed and discussed and mostly ignored for a month until it leaked and went viral.

    As a business, this is simply too distracting and they need to make it go away. Damore is in a great position for a generous settlement. I might take the approach of offering a number to make it go away immediately. $10m. Every adult in the room knows there will be some sort of settlement, and the major limitation on the amount is that it needs to low enough to not seem 'unseemly'. Like what a good baseball player makes in a year.

    It’s also interesting that this ‘inflammatory’ document was distributed and discussed and mostly ignored for a month until it leaked and went viral.

    Same thing (delayed reaction) happened at Evergreen State.

    Read More
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  32. @Opinionator
    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.

    This doesn't seem like much of a risk. Plenty of talent to choose from, and not many competitors.

    Besides, the competitors are similarly in the grip of the diversity cult.

    Read More
    • Agree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I don't think they are to the same degree. I don't hear as much SJW buzz about Amazon, for example.
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  33. @Moshe
    I have a word for all a ya silent on Trump's unprecedented war mongering because you have such confidence in his 7D Chess endgame:

    Neo-neoconservatives.

    Trump is stupid and may start an idiotic war. Let’s hope it’s Venezuela, which has the lowest chance of actually going nuclear or a world war.

    North Korea, the South China Sea, Ukraine (okay, this is not Trump’s fault mostly), Syria (he shares responsibility but maybe not the main culprit), these all have the potential to blow the world up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    I would 't mind a quick Venezuelan operation. We have managed to do quick and painless regime changes in Latin America before.

    Its communist dictator is one of two South American leaders who are half Jewish. The other is this guy, president of Peru with a white American wife.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Pablo_Kuczynski
    , @Jack Hanson
    The guy who spent a thread crying about how the Left is just going to invent a Minority Report algo so all resistance to their agenda is futile should probably sit out:

    - calling anyone stupid
    - talking about war
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  34. @Anon7
    There's a different way to understand this situation. It's the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    What if you had a room full of bright men and women in their twenties, and you said "I've got loads of amazing jobs that pay about $100,000 per year with great perks, it's right in the middle of the most beautiful and vital cities in the world, and you'll be working for one of the world's most prestigious companies, one that leads the most important technological revolutions of our time. You'll be a part of it!"

    "Oh, and we give about 80% of these jobs to men."

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women's natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It's those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!

    If everyone wants to know about men and women, Google should start paying minimum wage, find crappy office parks in Oklahoma, rename their company something bland. Then you'd find out who really needs to do that kind of work.

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.

    If companies started paying long-haul truck drivers $100K per year, and glamorized the job, created fabulous destinations instead of crappy warehouses, and raised the status of the companies that are the lifeblood of the American economy, what would happen? Women would demand those jobs! They'd demand more changes, they'd demand training for girls, Trucker Barbie, the works.

    It's the prestigious Google jobs they want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    $100,000 per year? Try $250,000. $100K is barely middle class in San Francisco

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    Starting programmer pay for the guy I knew who went there right after undergrad was 90k. But this was about 6 yeara ago.
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  35. @War for Blair Mountain
    As I have argued many times:The US state religion of "The Blessings of Diversity" is a direct consequence of the Cold War Era anti-Commie Crusade which was a direct road to the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act...a short...hop...and a skip to the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act which was, and still is justified by the state religion of "the Blessings of Diversity"(does this include bestiality?.... or as the late Brother Theodore would pronounce it:best..chuality...)because we are a better people than the Russkies!!!....This industrial sewage is the basis of "Putin interfered with the 2016 election!!!...let's start a war with Conservative Christian Russia in the name of Gay Rights!!!" meme...

    Peter Brimelow has talked about “Hitler’s Revenge,” in the form of the Western democracies selfdestructing by welcoming racially different invaders. I’ve sometimes wondered whether the elements you identify in your post could be termed “Kruschev’s Revenge.”

    Read More
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  36. Lot says:
    @reiner Tor
    Trump is stupid and may start an idiotic war. Let's hope it's Venezuela, which has the lowest chance of actually going nuclear or a world war.

    North Korea, the South China Sea, Ukraine (okay, this is not Trump's fault mostly), Syria (he shares responsibility but maybe not the main culprit), these all have the potential to blow the world up.

    I would ‘t mind a quick Venezuelan operation. We have managed to do quick and painless regime changes in Latin America before.

    Its communist dictator is one of two South American leaders who are half Jewish. The other is this guy, president of Peru with a white American wife.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Pablo_Kuczynski

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    I would ‘t mind a quick Venezuelan operation.
     
    I wouldn't care if it really was short. Wars tend to turn out differently than planned, especially if the goal will be to make Venezuela "democratic", instead of just replacing a hostile and incompetent tyrant with a friendly and competent one.

    Its communist dictator is one of two South American leaders who are half Jewish.
     
    I don't care if he's Jewish, Aryan, black, white, striped, or Martian. He's incompetent and bad for Venezuela, but let it stay the problem of Venezuelans, and let's not discredit nationalism with another stupid and pointless war.
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  37. Lot says:
    @Space Ghost
    $100,000 per year? Try $250,000. $100K is barely middle class in San Francisco

    Starting programmer pay for the guy I knew who went there right after undergrad was 90k. But this was about 6 yeara ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Space Ghost
    Starting *salary* is probably around 110 these days, but you also have to factor in bonus + stock grant + the fact that Damore had been there 4 years and promoted twice.
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  38. Lot says:

    Google already has a caste system set up, with a large share of the people working in the Googleplex, maybe a majority, contract employees who have little hope of a permanent position.

    If you’ve ever worked at a place like that, you know what I mean by caste system. The lowest level admin staff who are permanent still are above and barely acknowledge the contract employees, even though they usually make less.

    Read More
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  39. Bill P says:
    @WowJustWow
    "Many reputable scientific authorities have weighed in on this question, including a major paper in the journal Science debunking the idea that the brains of males and females are so different that they should be educated in single-sex classrooms."

    Wow, what a great piece of evidence against something nobody in the modern world is arguing for.

    In other links, Scott Alexander knocked this one out of the park. This might actually stand a good chance of injecting some sanity into the current National Monologue on Gender: http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/

    I’ll happily argue for it. I should have been educated in single sex classrooms. You know what it’s like to be a 17yo boy with a hot girl wearing a tank top and tight shorts sitting a few feet in front of you suggestively twirling her hair with her finger? Do you think that kind of environment is conducive to paying attention to what the teacher is saying?

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.

    Read More
    • Agree: utu, BB753
    • Replies: @NickG

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.
     
    Yup, mixed sexed schools adopt female norms and pathologise male norms.
    , @Lot
    For many it is the girls sitting next to them that provides the incentive to show up to class.

    We have a competitive market in the USA for schools. Public, private, charters, upscale suburban publics. With rare exceptions, they are not single sex.

    The problem is partly economic. Single sex classrooms destroy the economies of scale by combining the sexes.

    The fact that England seems to have a lot of publicly funded single-sex Islamic schools with veiled women is a tragidy that I worry about spreading to thw USA.
    , @kaganovitch
    I attended exclusively single sex Orthodox Jewish schools, and I think the lack of distraction was very helpful. Mind you, the Yeshiva schedule from 9th grade and up is much more intensive than Public school.The norm is 8 AM to 7 PM with 1.5 hour break for lunch , and a 1.5-2 hour night session tacked on.
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  40. eah says:
    @eah
    our diversity groups

    Like someone said: he talks (writes) like he still works there, or would like to still be working there -- and what the fucking hell is a 'diversity group'? -- der Damone ist allgemein sympathisch, so it's not a bad thing that he is currently the public face of HBD-lite -- but he was also willing to engage with 'diversity groups', which seems rather alpha-lite to me.

    And court decisions.

    https://twitter.com/ebolamericana/status/896160588694511616

    >der Damone

    Damore natürlich — ich entschuldige mich bei Herrn Damore.

    Read More
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  41. jim jones says:
    @Lot
    Duck and Bing are inferior products. Use an adblock and Google gets no revenue.

    Youtube does not need to be directly profitable if it helps Google target ads elsewhere and stops its rivals making money with similar sites.

    Disable auto-suggest and Search history, install uBlock Origin.

    Read More
    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Hmmm. That strikes me as something to do immediately.
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  42. Bill P says:
    @Anon7
    There's a different way to understand this situation. It's the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    What if you had a room full of bright men and women in their twenties, and you said "I've got loads of amazing jobs that pay about $100,000 per year with great perks, it's right in the middle of the most beautiful and vital cities in the world, and you'll be working for one of the world's most prestigious companies, one that leads the most important technological revolutions of our time. You'll be a part of it!"

    "Oh, and we give about 80% of these jobs to men."

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women's natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It's those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!

    If everyone wants to know about men and women, Google should start paying minimum wage, find crappy office parks in Oklahoma, rename their company something bland. Then you'd find out who really needs to do that kind of work.

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.

    If companies started paying long-haul truck drivers $100K per year, and glamorized the job, created fabulous destinations instead of crappy warehouses, and raised the status of the companies that are the lifeblood of the American economy, what would happen? Women would demand those jobs! They'd demand more changes, they'd demand training for girls, Trucker Barbie, the works.

    It's the prestigious Google jobs they want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.

    Trucking isn’t that bad. Pay is more like 40-80k/year (six figures for union drivers with seniority) and you sit on your butt most of the time. It’s kind of hard to find guys who are willing to be out on the road for weeks at a time, have spotless driving records, never fail a piss or breath test and can easily pass the required physicals. For a guy from some poor southern or western town trucking still is a ticket into the middle class.

    You want an example of an all-male occupation that really truly sucks? Try logging. Low pay, extremely dangerous, backbreaking labor and pesky environmentalists always trying to get in your way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Having driven truck myself, most tucking jobs suck. Per hour the pay sucks and there is constant fatigue and boredom punctuated by moments of terror.

    Union LTL guys do ok once up the seniority ladder. Specialize jobs like heavy hauling can be worth the hassle, or being a driver/whatever for a MRI or lithotripsy medical truck, race car hauling, et al. But driving a van, reefer or flatbed mostly stinks.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Wildland Firefighting is another one: Make 30k over the summer and 10k the rest of the year as a contract employee hoping you make the right contacts to get a GS-7 position with the FS or NPS.
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  43. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    DDG has been my primary search engine since 2014 because of consistency: it gives everyone who puts in a given regular expression on a given day the same results.

    Read More
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  44. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Bill P

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.
     
    Trucking isn't that bad. Pay is more like 40-80k/year (six figures for union drivers with seniority) and you sit on your butt most of the time. It's kind of hard to find guys who are willing to be out on the road for weeks at a time, have spotless driving records, never fail a piss or breath test and can easily pass the required physicals. For a guy from some poor southern or western town trucking still is a ticket into the middle class.

    You want an example of an all-male occupation that really truly sucks? Try logging. Low pay, extremely dangerous, backbreaking labor and pesky environmentalists always trying to get in your way.

    Having driven truck myself, most tucking jobs suck. Per hour the pay sucks and there is constant fatigue and boredom punctuated by moments of terror.

    Union LTL guys do ok once up the seniority ladder. Specialize jobs like heavy hauling can be worth the hassle, or being a driver/whatever for a MRI or lithotripsy medical truck, race car hauling, et al. But driving a van, reefer or flatbed mostly stinks.

    Read More
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  45. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon7
    There's a different way to understand this situation. It's the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    What if you had a room full of bright men and women in their twenties, and you said "I've got loads of amazing jobs that pay about $100,000 per year with great perks, it's right in the middle of the most beautiful and vital cities in the world, and you'll be working for one of the world's most prestigious companies, one that leads the most important technological revolutions of our time. You'll be a part of it!"

    "Oh, and we give about 80% of these jobs to men."

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women's natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It's those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!

    If everyone wants to know about men and women, Google should start paying minimum wage, find crappy office parks in Oklahoma, rename their company something bland. Then you'd find out who really needs to do that kind of work.

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.

    If companies started paying long-haul truck drivers $100K per year, and glamorized the job, created fabulous destinations instead of crappy warehouses, and raised the status of the companies that are the lifeblood of the American economy, what would happen? Women would demand those jobs! They'd demand more changes, they'd demand training for girls, Trucker Barbie, the works.

    It's the prestigious Google jobs they want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    There’s a different way to understand this situation. It’s the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings – not the work.
    ……..

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women’s natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It’s those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!

    Same thing at a different level. But the Navy has a way to separate those who want to DO the work from those who SAY they do.

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  46. Ivy says:
    @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    Google search does not darken my browser.

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    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Recent? I've been adopting browser diversity (Ha!) in recent years, and may become even more diverse now.
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  47. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Moshe
    I have a word for all a ya silent on Trump's unprecedented war mongering because you have such confidence in his 7D Chess endgame:

    Neo-neoconservatives.

    I thought Trump was going to put America first and cool it on all of these wars. I don’t know what he’s doing. It seems ridiculous to me.

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    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I wish some of the geniuses here would tell us how letting the Norks hold a gun to outer head is "America First".

    Nah, they'll just bray some more about betrayyyyed.
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  48. @War for Blair Mountain
    As I have argued many times:The US state religion of "The Blessings of Diversity" is a direct consequence of the Cold War Era anti-Commie Crusade which was a direct road to the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act...a short...hop...and a skip to the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act which was, and still is justified by the state religion of "the Blessings of Diversity"(does this include bestiality?.... or as the late Brother Theodore would pronounce it:best..chuality...)because we are a better people than the Russkies!!!....This industrial sewage is the basis of "Putin interfered with the 2016 election!!!...let's start a war with Conservative Christian Russia in the name of Gay Rights!!!" meme...

    The anti-communist argument has also been used to explain America’s shift towards free trade, which happened at the same time as the change in immigration policy. It’s a kind of soft imperialism. Let others have access to your borders and markets and let them see how wonderful your system is and encourage them to follow your lead. While this might work in the case of Latin America, most of America’s serious rivals have their own way of doing things and no amount of liberalism is going to persuade Russia or China or Japan to become imperial vassals of US corporations and NGOs.

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  49. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Opinionator
    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.

    This doesn't seem like much of a risk. Plenty of talent to choose from, and not many competitors.

    Apple, Amazon, Facebook, and Microsoft are all in the market for Damore types, and for more senior scientists and other experts, to do R&D on their moonshot projects. The Business Insider article I linked to talks about the lengths they go to attract and retain them. All else equal, do you think this week’s events make Google a more or less attractive employer to them?

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  50. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @reiner Tor
    Besides, the competitors are similarly in the grip of the diversity cult.

    I don’t think they are to the same degree. I don’t hear as much SJW buzz about Amazon, for example.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I get the feeling Bezos is a bit more comfortable with being 'evil'
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  51. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dave Pinsen
    I don't think they are to the same degree. I don't hear as much SJW buzz about Amazon, for example.

    I get the feeling Bezos is a bit more comfortable with being ‘evil’

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  52. Pericles says:
    @anon

    Upper management tried to placate this surge of outrage by shaming me and misrepresenting my document, but they couldn’t really do otherwise:
     
    This is unusually perceptive. He gets it that Google was quite 'OK' with its gender diversity before the firm started getting a beat down from SJWs.

    They were reasonably fair regarding hiring practices before they were called into question. And are now trying really, really hard to be fair to the extent that they -- per Damore -- are biasing employee practices -- to prove it.

    It's also interesting that this 'inflammatory' document was distributed and discussed and mostly ignored for a month until it leaked and went viral.

    As a business, this is simply too distracting and they need to make it go away. Damore is in a great position for a generous settlement. I might take the approach of offering a number to make it go away immediately. $10m. Every adult in the room knows there will be some sort of settlement, and the major limitation on the amount is that it needs to low enough to not seem 'unseemly'. Like what a good baseball player makes in a year.

    I might take the approach of offering a number to make it go away immediately.

    It’s the SJWs who will get paid, of course (and $10m is chump change). They will also get various concessions by Google; you can probably imagine the laundry list. Just how the game is played, playa.

    The big question for Google is what to do with all the fucking white males who didn’t like what happened but aren’t permitted to complain by their pasty but zealous commissars. Perhaps, the FWM will think, the grass is greener at Apple or Microsoft after all? That might get bad. The obvious counter is to give everyone an eye-watering raise to forget the boot in their face just got worse, and sufficient to forget that the SJW next to them will get the same raise and other goodies too. I presume there are some special management projects running spreadsheets on this right now.

    (If I were in Google top management, I’d then start quietly managing out the disastrous HR and managers who have perpetuated this. But inexplicably I’m not.)

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  53. @Lot
    Starting programmer pay for the guy I knew who went there right after undergrad was 90k. But this was about 6 yeara ago.

    Starting *salary* is probably around 110 these days, but you also have to factor in bonus + stock grant + the fact that Damore had been there 4 years and promoted twice.

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  54. OT, but …

    Robert Morse! Omoshiroi!

    A pity that the writers of Mad Men (yes, I know, I know) didn’t make better use of his talents. Although, to be fair, they did have him do a musical number for Don in his final appearance.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Mad Men" was like an unfunny, unmusical "How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying."
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  55. @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    Yes have left Chrome and Google search. Switched over to Brave.

    Will be switching my accounts away from gmail this week, am in the process of comparing providers.

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    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    How is Brave for use? Am working on Safari at the moment.

    That's one lost customer. I wonder how many more.
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  56. @Achilles
    Just leaked on Reddit by GoogleAnon:

    BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

    Hi, everyone and welcome to our weekly TGIF. Hopefully all the Googlers in our satellite offices can see me.

    [in unison response] Hi Sundar!

    Thank you, thank you.

    Before taking questions, I want to discuss a couple of new Google initiatives I am launching.

    I just returned from a meeting with the General Counsel of our parent company, Alphabet, and his outside legal team. In the meeting, I agreed that in the future I will not fire Googlers for expressing what I consider to be impure thoughts about female workers.

    But after leaving the meeting, I thought to myself, surely there must be a solution to this problem! After all, we are Googlers! Innovate, I told myself!

    Accordingly, I am announcing today that in lieu of terminating people with improper thoughts such as James Damore, in the future we will continue to employ them within Google and re-assign such persons to our newly-instituted caste of Ungoogleables.

    Ungoogleables will be an entirely separate caste within Google, and their main jobs will be emptying trash cans, cleaning the bathroom facilities and debugging code.

    In order to insure Safe Spaces for our higher-caste Googlers, the Ungoogleables will not be permitted to enter Safe Space areas at times when higher-caste Googlers are present, and will be provided separate eating facilities and restrooms.

    However, the fact that in the future we will be tolerating the presence of persons like James Damore at our company does not mean that we are tolerating misogyny, and counteracting that brings me to our second initiative.

    As you may know, our Go programming language was named in honor of cows, as the Sanskrit word for cow is "go." This is because in the most advanced societies on earth, cows are venerated, honored and protected.

    Therefore, in order to preempt any possibility of inappropriate thoughts about female employees, our senior women Googlers will be bestowed by the company with the honorific title of 'Blessed Cow.'

    And let me just give a word of warning to Ungoogleables and other misogynists: we will not tolerate any criticism of our Blessed Cows.

    As a result of their status, Blessed Cows may walk wherever they like in our company and insert themselves into any active project they may happen upon, in order that we may benefit from their superior wisdom and technical abilities.

    As always, I appreciate your feedback and in particular would encourage any Googlers with opposing opinions to speak out.

    Thank you.

    END TRANSCRIPT

     

    V. clever.

    Drown them in wit. They are naked emperors. Make them look like the ridiculous nitwits that they are.

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    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    Boss Tweed could deal with columnists and goo-goos attacking him. He could not abide Thomas Nast's cartoons and wit.
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  57. @Stebbing Heuer
    OT, but ...

    Robert Morse! Omoshiroi!

    A pity that the writers of Mad Men (yes, I know, I know) didn't make better use of his talents. Although, to be fair, they did have him do a musical number for Don in his final appearance.

    “Mad Men” was like an unfunny, unmusical “How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying.”

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Mad Men worked on two levels: On one level, you were supposed to say, "Oh, the bad old days, weren't they horrible with all those racist, sexist white men." And on the other level, you thought to yourself , "Oh, the bad old days when people could drink at lunch and smoke and men were men - they look wonderful."

    Like all soap operas they ran out of plot after a while and had to make up increasing less plausible stuff - by the end all that was missing was the amnesia plot but the implausible switched identity plot was there from the beginning.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I tried to watch Mad Men but the fact that there was not a single character I could like or even find interesting made it not worth the effort. Who would have thought that a show about Madison Avenue would have fewer sympathetic characters than a show about the New Jersey Mafia...
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  58. Horzabky says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    I raised the point about investors here.

    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.


    https://twitter.com/Benzinga/status/896057377052516353

    The other risk is that this incident gives more power to the Bannon wing that wants to treat Google and Facebook like Ma Bell.
    https://twitter.com/SeekingAlpha/status/890927965218889728

    Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires.”

    And the best and brightest applicants, still hired by Google, will work like diversity hires after a few years. Especially after the diversity hires are promoted ahead of them. You do in one hour what it takes a diversity hire a whole day to do (if he/she does it at all), and eventually you see him/her promoted ahead of you. You’ll soon find ways to make that one hour fill the whole workday.

    Well, half a workday. Because you’ll still be expected to work more than the diversity hires.

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    • Replies: @res
    What's really fun is when as part of that you get to "help" or "train" (your replacements) the diversity. To be clear, some of those folks are good, but some are not. And they get hired anyway. Because...
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  59. @Lot
    I would 't mind a quick Venezuelan operation. We have managed to do quick and painless regime changes in Latin America before.

    Its communist dictator is one of two South American leaders who are half Jewish. The other is this guy, president of Peru with a white American wife.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Pablo_Kuczynski

    I would ‘t mind a quick Venezuelan operation.

    I wouldn’t care if it really was short. Wars tend to turn out differently than planned, especially if the goal will be to make Venezuela “democratic”, instead of just replacing a hostile and incompetent tyrant with a friendly and competent one.

    Its communist dictator is one of two South American leaders who are half Jewish.

    I don’t care if he’s Jewish, Aryan, black, white, striped, or Martian. He’s incompetent and bad for Venezuela, but let it stay the problem of Venezuelans, and let’s not discredit nationalism with another stupid and pointless war.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Regime change against a communist Latin American government is something we've done with success before. Ideally US troops are not used at all, but the CIA always is and they are most effective when there is a threat of it.

    Conveniently, we already have a democraticly elected government. They are partly in jail, partly in hiding, partly abroad, and partly still in office.

    Chavez's government had basically fair elections which it won because it was popular. Maduro started cheating, but was so unpopular he still lost. He has since taken power in a coup. He is barely holding on to power, but in the end he has some army support and Venezuela's oil revenues.

    He's fairly precarious and might only need oil sanctions to topple him, or bribe him to take an honorable retirement in Cuba or Switzerland.
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  60. NickG says:
    @Bill P
    I'll happily argue for it. I should have been educated in single sex classrooms. You know what it's like to be a 17yo boy with a hot girl wearing a tank top and tight shorts sitting a few feet in front of you suggestively twirling her hair with her finger? Do you think that kind of environment is conducive to paying attention to what the teacher is saying?

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.

    Yup, mixed sexed schools adopt female norms and pathologise male norms.

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  61. Tulip says:

    Autocracy is defined by a small number of decision-makers dependent on a small control group. If you look at the structure of a multi-national corporation, you find a small number of decision-makers dependent on a small group of board members and large shareholders. The modern corporation, like Google, most resembles a dictatorship.

    Clearly, a company like Google cannot operate gulags or have people rounded up in the night and tortured to confess their crimes, but they can promulgate a party line and purge people for deviance from the party line. This is what happens in dictatorships. Now, obviously, Google in an alternative universe could have become some hard-core libertarian hard right ideological configuration, but if you look at the real world, and higher education, you are populating the company with kids indoctrinated in college, so you would predict that the hegemonic dogma to reflect the crap people pick up at university. Further, the pressure of American “civil rights” laws and the potential for employment lawsuits really restricts freedom of action and thought at Google further. So there should be zero surprises that Blank Slate Equalism has become the Orthodox Dogma for those who want to maintain their party membership and not be shipped off to Black-list Siberia. [Note Universities have a similar management structure to corporations, and also have features of autocracy, so SJW thought police are a feature not a bug there too.]

    We are at an interesting stage, where people understand what they need to say, and will say it, not out of belief but fear. The result for the thought-police will not be “safety” but increased paranoia about the hidden fifth column, and more extreme acting out to detect and/or fabricate “diversity traitors” and “diversity saboteurs”, which will probably rely in immutable characteristics rather than behavior. Of course, we all know that the only way to end racism is to discriminate against people based on immutable characteristics they possess, so I don’t see much cognitive dissonance arising from the transition. It is similar to the shift the Germans made when they got rid of all the out-and-out communists and started targeting Jews–who as all good National Socialists knew were clandestine communists anyways.

    No surprises here, the only question is whether these American corporations will be able to compete effectively in an international market, against foreign competitors and smaller, more nimble companies that engage in racist practices such as promoting the most qualified candidates. However, they are monopolies, and they do have a lot of friends in the corridors of power, so the “snowflake era” may play itself out for decades to come.

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  62. @reiner Tor
    Trump is stupid and may start an idiotic war. Let's hope it's Venezuela, which has the lowest chance of actually going nuclear or a world war.

    North Korea, the South China Sea, Ukraine (okay, this is not Trump's fault mostly), Syria (he shares responsibility but maybe not the main culprit), these all have the potential to blow the world up.

    The guy who spent a thread crying about how the Left is just going to invent a Minority Report algo so all resistance to their agenda is futile should probably sit out:

    - calling anyone stupid
    - talking about war

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I didn't "cry". I merely wrote what the endgame of the left will be. Cause it won't stop at where we are now. And once the hard totalitarian system will be in place (we're still far from it, of course), resistance will be futile (until the system collapses, when it will be again worth it).
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  63. Lot says:
    @Bill P
    I'll happily argue for it. I should have been educated in single sex classrooms. You know what it's like to be a 17yo boy with a hot girl wearing a tank top and tight shorts sitting a few feet in front of you suggestively twirling her hair with her finger? Do you think that kind of environment is conducive to paying attention to what the teacher is saying?

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.

    For many it is the girls sitting next to them that provides the incentive to show up to class.

    We have a competitive market in the USA for schools. Public, private, charters, upscale suburban publics. With rare exceptions, they are not single sex.

    The problem is partly economic. Single sex classrooms destroy the economies of scale by combining the sexes.

    The fact that England seems to have a lot of publicly funded single-sex Islamic schools with veiled women is a tragidy that I worry about spreading to thw USA.

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  64. @Bill P

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.
     
    Trucking isn't that bad. Pay is more like 40-80k/year (six figures for union drivers with seniority) and you sit on your butt most of the time. It's kind of hard to find guys who are willing to be out on the road for weeks at a time, have spotless driving records, never fail a piss or breath test and can easily pass the required physicals. For a guy from some poor southern or western town trucking still is a ticket into the middle class.

    You want an example of an all-male occupation that really truly sucks? Try logging. Low pay, extremely dangerous, backbreaking labor and pesky environmentalists always trying to get in your way.

    Wildland Firefighting is another one: Make 30k over the summer and 10k the rest of the year as a contract employee hoping you make the right contacts to get a GS-7 position with the FS or NPS.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    I think wildfire fighters make a lot more than that in California.
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  65. @Anonymous
    I thought Trump was going to put America first and cool it on all of these wars. I don't know what he's doing. It seems ridiculous to me.

    I wish some of the geniuses here would tell us how letting the Norks hold a gun to outer head is “America First”.

    Nah, they’ll just bray some more about betrayyyyed.

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  66. Lot says:
    @reiner Tor

    I would ‘t mind a quick Venezuelan operation.
     
    I wouldn't care if it really was short. Wars tend to turn out differently than planned, especially if the goal will be to make Venezuela "democratic", instead of just replacing a hostile and incompetent tyrant with a friendly and competent one.

    Its communist dictator is one of two South American leaders who are half Jewish.
     
    I don't care if he's Jewish, Aryan, black, white, striped, or Martian. He's incompetent and bad for Venezuela, but let it stay the problem of Venezuelans, and let's not discredit nationalism with another stupid and pointless war.

    Regime change against a communist Latin American government is something we’ve done with success before. Ideally US troops are not used at all, but the CIA always is and they are most effective when there is a threat of it.

    Conveniently, we already have a democraticly elected government. They are partly in jail, partly in hiding, partly abroad, and partly still in office.

    Chavez’s government had basically fair elections which it won because it was popular. Maduro started cheating, but was so unpopular he still lost. He has since taken power in a coup. He is barely holding on to power, but in the end he has some army support and Venezuela’s oil revenues.

    He’s fairly precarious and might only need oil sanctions to topple him, or bribe him to take an honorable retirement in Cuba or Switzerland.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I didn't know about the details. I'm still skeptical a bit.
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  67. Lot says:
    @Jack Hanson
    Wildland Firefighting is another one: Make 30k over the summer and 10k the rest of the year as a contract employee hoping you make the right contacts to get a GS-7 position with the FS or NPS.

    I think wildfire fighters make a lot more than that in California.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Smoke jumpers and others used to call those thunder clouds Cumulus Overtimus, or Cumulus Cashregistorius, take your pick.
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  68. Thea says:
    @Moshe
    I have a word for all a ya silent on Trump's unprecedented war mongering because you have such confidence in his 7D Chess endgame:

    Neo-neoconservatives.

    He’s clearly their puppet.

    If this Israelis impeach ( or whatever the equivalent there is ) Bibi, Trump may try to step in. Imagine the unintended consequences of that move.

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  69. Hrw-500 says:
    @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    I also use DuckDuckGo and also Startpage.

    As for Patreon, maybe Lauren Southern could use Hatreon.

    And for alternatives to Youtube, I mentionned some of them in rel=”nofollow”>another comment.

    On a off-topic sidenote, I checked today then Ex-army’s blog had vanished. Here’s the more recent archived post. http://archive.is/hbxzK

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  70. @Moshe
    I have a word for all a ya silent on Trump's unprecedented war mongering because you have such confidence in his 7D Chess endgame:

    Neo-neoconservatives.

    This thread is about James Damore and the Google memo. And yet you feel the need to insert a completely off-topic anti-Trump comment. You, sir, are a sad victim of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

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  71. @TomSchmidt
    Respond to this post if you've sworn off Google Search. No need to swear off YouTube or Gmail: google doesn't make any money on those.

    How much search going to DuckDuckGo would be enough to undermine their whole business model?

    I uninstalled google chrome this morning, and sent a message to the goolag explaining why: “I don’t like censorship.”

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  72. @jim jones
    Disable auto-suggest and Search history, install uBlock Origin.

    Hmmm. That strikes me as something to do immediately.

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  73. @Lot
    Duck and Bing are inferior products. Use an adblock and Google gets no revenue.

    Youtube does not need to be directly profitable if it helps Google target ads elsewhere and stops its rivals making money with similar sites.

    I suppose people on the Right could simply advocate Adblock to cut off their oxygen supply.

    It is a better engine for most searches. For ones with an UN-PC result, no, if the commissars have caught the result.

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  74. @Dave Pinsen
    I've been using Microsoft's Bing for search for years. Works as well as Google, two fewer characters to type.

    It’s been improving, enough so that it makes a decent replacement. Their suggestions after search seem more topical.

    I’d guess the patent runs out on PageRank soon. That would invite an open-source competitor who guarantees privacy to jump in.

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  75. @Ivy
    Google search does not darken my browser.

    Recent? I’ve been adopting browser diversity (Ha!) in recent years, and may become even more diverse now.

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  76. @Stebbing Heuer
    Yes have left Chrome and Google search. Switched over to Brave.

    Will be switching my accounts away from gmail this week, am in the process of comparing providers.

    How is Brave for use? Am working on Safari at the moment.

    That’s one lost customer. I wonder how many more.

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  77. @snorlax
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Main_Page
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Infogalactic:Introduction

    Excellent. Switching to InfoGalactic when possible.

    CANON FOUR

    No griefing.

    All griefers, which is to say trolls, vandals, rules lawyers, and ideological crusaders, will be aggressively anticipated, trapped, and exterminated. Don’t bother playing word games or trying to hide behind pedantic interpretations of the rules. Infogalactic’s Starlords are under direct orders to freeze any account that appears to belong to a griefer and to permanently ban those confirmed as such. Don’t try to be sneaky. You’re not going to fool anyone.

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  78. @Stebbing Heuer
    V. clever.

    Drown them in wit. They are naked emperors. Make them look like the ridiculous nitwits that they are.

    Boss Tweed could deal with columnists and goo-goos attacking him. He could not abide Thomas Nast’s cartoons and wit.

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  79. res says:
    @TomSchmidt
    There were research studies cited in there. A nice note about Simon Baron-Cohen's study, which has not been replicated. But then, what in psych is these days?

    Could you point specifically to your examples? The Simon Baron-Cohen study was cited by Damore and the Recode article neither referenced (by name, year, or link) nor quoted from it. They did refer to it though, vaguely. I suppose in some circles that counts as citing a study. Just like the bit quoted by WowJustWow: “Many reputable scientific authorities have weighed in on this question, including a major paper in the journal Science debunking the idea that the brains of males and females are so different that they should be educated in single-sex classrooms.” Cool, what paper was that exactly?

    Neither of those looks like a proper way to use a reference to support an argument. But if you are just trying to throw around FUD with a veneer of science…then mission accomplished.

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  80. Google is a monopoly. It will not lose coding talent because it can pay the most for coding talent. The only competition to Google for talent is Amazon, another monopoly, or Facebook. The only real threat to Google, Anazon or Facebook is the antitrust law, which are no longer enforced in the US

    In my experience there is a tremendous gap between the best coders and the run of the mill. Huge gap. And the very top coding talent is almost exclusively male, white, Asian and Indian. But there are program managers, marketing, legal departments, writers, client services, sales etc and those roles will be increasingly filled by the other demographics. That will take the pressure off Google for the time being.

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  81. res says:
    @Horzabky
    "Really, there are two separate risks. One is that Google looses the best & brightest applicants to competitors and gets mau-maued into more diversity hires."

    And the best and brightest applicants, still hired by Google, will work like diversity hires after a few years. Especially after the diversity hires are promoted ahead of them. You do in one hour what it takes a diversity hire a whole day to do (if he/she does it at all), and eventually you see him/her promoted ahead of you. You'll soon find ways to make that one hour fill the whole workday.

    Well, half a workday. Because you'll still be expected to work more than the diversity hires.

    What’s really fun is when as part of that you get to “help” or “train” (your replacements) the diversity. To be clear, some of those folks are good, but some are not. And they get hired anyway. Because…

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  82. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "Mad Men" was like an unfunny, unmusical "How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying."

    Mad Men worked on two levels: On one level, you were supposed to say, “Oh, the bad old days, weren’t they horrible with all those racist, sexist white men.” And on the other level, you thought to yourself , “Oh, the bad old days when people could drink at lunch and smoke and men were men – they look wonderful.”

    Like all soap operas they ran out of plot after a while and had to make up increasing less plausible stuff – by the end all that was missing was the amnesia plot but the implausible switched identity plot was there from the beginning.

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  83. aug says:
    @res
    Recode has another article on this. The title is "We’ve studied gender and STEM for 25 years. The science doesn’t support the Google memo." The neat thing is that despite that 25 years of studying and invocation of science they can't seem to be bothered to quote a single actual research study. Fascinating.
    https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore

    maybe you should have read to the end of the article on Recode, a number of studies are mentioned.

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    maybe you should have read to the end of the article on Recode, a number of studies are mentioned.
     
    Please point to one that includes an actual quote or a decent reference (and there is a difference between a quote or reference and a "mention"). I see lots of vague book references, a link to the NYT, some links to people's credentials or organizations, but I am just not finding studies with actual references. Much less a substantive quote from one (especially one mentioning actual data).

    Seriously, please prove me wrong.

    And to be clear, vague and unreferenced (if you'd like to chase the original references down from the minimal information given, be my guest) statements like:

    A review of studies of U.S. decision makers who have the power to hire candidates found that clearly competent men were rated higher than equally competent women. This bias is especially rampant in the high-tech industry. One study, conducted by professors at Columbia, Northwestern and the University of Chicago, found that two-thirds of managers selected male job candidates, even when the men did not perform as well as the women on math problems that were part of the application process.
    ...
    Over the past two decades, men in the U.S. are spending more and more time on housework and childcare on both workdays and weekends. Indeed, their time spent on such tasks is close to that spent by their wives, according to the National Study of the Changing Workforce.
    The psychological well-being of employed married fathers is as closely linked to their family as to their employee roles, according to a study directed by Dr. Barnett.
     
    just don't cut it. Neither do paraphrases of what the studies supposedly said. Those are basically as useful as all of the "paraphrases" of Damore's memo we have seen.

    It is depressing how much better referenced Damore's memo was than the Recode article.

    Then there is the issue of whether those study "mentions" actually refute Damore's contentions about sex differences. Do you think they do?

    For what it is worth, here is the background of the scientist half of the Recode duo: http://www.brandeis.edu/barnett/

    Rosalind Barnett is a Senior Scientist at the Women's Studies Research Center.
     
    Clearly an impartial observer with no axes to grind.

    I don't see anything that looks like a serious examination of sex differences in ability in her research papers, but perhaps I am missing something?
    http://www.brandeis.edu/barnett/papers.html

    And for a look at something which at least engages with the literature, compare the Recode article to https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what-does-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/
    You'll see lots of studies with titles, authors, links, abstracts, etc. And those studies even talk about sex differences in ability--the topic at hand.

    P.S. Welcome. Interesting choice for your first comment on the Unz Review (I am assuming the 2008 and earlier commenter Aug is someone else). Why so much concern over the Recode article?
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  84. @Jack Hanson
    The guy who spent a thread crying about how the Left is just going to invent a Minority Report algo so all resistance to their agenda is futile should probably sit out:

    - calling anyone stupid
    - talking about war

    I didn’t “cry”. I merely wrote what the endgame of the left will be. Cause it won’t stop at where we are now. And once the hard totalitarian system will be in place (we’re still far from it, of course), resistance will be futile (until the system collapses, when it will be again worth it).

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  85. @Lot
    Regime change against a communist Latin American government is something we've done with success before. Ideally US troops are not used at all, but the CIA always is and they are most effective when there is a threat of it.

    Conveniently, we already have a democraticly elected government. They are partly in jail, partly in hiding, partly abroad, and partly still in office.

    Chavez's government had basically fair elections which it won because it was popular. Maduro started cheating, but was so unpopular he still lost. He has since taken power in a coup. He is barely holding on to power, but in the end he has some army support and Venezuela's oil revenues.

    He's fairly precarious and might only need oil sanctions to topple him, or bribe him to take an honorable retirement in Cuba or Switzerland.

    I didn’t know about the details. I’m still skeptical a bit.

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  86. MB says: • Website
    @Lot
    Duck and Bing are inferior products. Use an adblock and Google gets no revenue.

    Youtube does not need to be directly profitable if it helps Google target ads elsewhere and stops its rivals making money with similar sites.

    The real problem is that the Goolag screens for what it considers inappropriate content and filters out the politically incorrect its technically superior product/algorithm notwithstanding. (Ahem, how do we know this? Because we are a nonperson on the Big G, but not on Bing.) Even Ixquick which keeps your IP private, uses G unfortunately.

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    Because we are a nonperson on the Big G, but not on Bing.) Even Ixquick which keeps your IP private, uses G unfortunately.

    What does this mean?
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  87. Romanian says: • Website
    @Anon7
    There's a different way to understand this situation. It's the prestigious Google jobs that women want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    What if you had a room full of bright men and women in their twenties, and you said "I've got loads of amazing jobs that pay about $100,000 per year with great perks, it's right in the middle of the most beautiful and vital cities in the world, and you'll be working for one of the world's most prestigious companies, one that leads the most important technological revolutions of our time. You'll be a part of it!"

    "Oh, and we give about 80% of these jobs to men."

    You bet women howl. All the comments about men and women's natures, PC culture and so forth are irrelevant. Only the most doctrinaire feminists care about whether men or women are best suited to math and coding. It's those high-paying, self-esteem enhancing, amazing jobs that they want!

    If everyone wants to know about men and women, Google should start paying minimum wage, find crappy office parks in Oklahoma, rename their company something bland. Then you'd find out who really needs to do that kind of work.

    Consider long-haul trucking. It pays barely minimum wage, the locations are terrible, the companies have no prestige, and the job itself is brutal. As it turns out, about 96% of long-haul truckers are men. A lot of the men who do it love it, and hate retiring.

    If companies started paying long-haul truck drivers $100K per year, and glamorized the job, created fabulous destinations instead of crappy warehouses, and raised the status of the companies that are the lifeblood of the American economy, what would happen? Women would demand those jobs! They'd demand more changes, they'd demand training for girls, Trucker Barbie, the works.

    It's the prestigious Google jobs they want, with all the trimmings - not the work.

    A very perceptive comment! I will remember this!

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  88. Romanian says: • Website
    @Anon
    Upper management tried to placate this surge of outrage by shaming me and misrepresenting my document, but they couldn’t really do otherwise: The mob would have set upon anyone who openly agreed with me or even tolerated my views. …

    Don't blame the mob, kiddo. Mob-think is the product of elite propaganda via control of media and education.

    There was a time when the mob didn't think this way. Back then, the mob would have laughed at 'gay marriage'. How did the mob become homomaniacal? They watch TV the beams elite propaganda into their eyes and brains.

    Electricity brought energy to the masses but it really empowered the elites, esp with advent of radio and TV.

    Before electricity, the elites could reach the masses only slowly. Most people lived in local communities and cultures with own press, values, and perspective. There was more local input and output since each town was separated from elite centers. To have news and culture, locals had to make their own to a large extent. It's like every western town had its own newspaper with own spin and flavor.

    But with rise of electricity, there was the movies, and all theaters showed the same image. Even so, movies were something you went to. At home and other places, you were independent of centralized culture. But then, with radio and TV, the centralized culture of LA and NY could be beamed into every home to create a national and then global monoculture. There was no more need for local production since what was made in LA or NY could be beamed into every radio and tv in every community. So, the same set of images, sounds, messages, and narratives entered every home. Even though everyone thought of his radio and tv as 'mine', what came through them belonged to a handful of professionals in LA or NY. The people only owned the gadgets. What came through the machines was made by others and came to own them, shape them, control them. And even though everyone felt privacy by watching in their own homes or bedrooms, they were all watching the SAME thing that all others were watching privately. So, a few people in LA or NY could control the eyes and minds of ALL Americans from biggest city to smallest village.

    This is finally changing again with the internet. In a way, the internet has empowered the elites more than ever by offering even more access to the masses all over to what LA and NY have to offer. But there is one big difference from old electronic media. Feedback and local/personal production. Prior to the internet, media was a one way street. LA and NY made the stuff, and we consumed. Even 'choice' in more channels didn't change this fact. They made it, we consumed it.
    But with internet, people can make their own content. And this content can be shot back at the powers that be in the form of comments or manifestos. Or, the masses could choose to just totally ignore the Power and communicate with one another. And in a way, the individuals have an advantage over institutions. Whereas institutions have to play by PC rules and other strictures or codes of conduct(sometimes principled, but often rigged to favor certain narratives or interests), individuals can just say whatever they want. Molyneux may be wrong or faulty on lots of stuff, but he can speak freely in ways that academics and media folks cannot. He has nothing to lose.... and for that reason, viewers find him far more refreshing than talking heads on TV controlled by puppet strings or Oleannic academics.

    So, Google finally decided to get ADL and other control-freaks to censor and rig platforms like Youtube. After all, Trump wouldn't have won without alternative media.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orpTM6GSuaI

    Anyway, Damore is wrong to blame the 'mob'. The mob is the way it is because of the glob.
    Glob used media and academia to mold the mind of mob.

    But perhaps the next generation will grow up with less such conditioning if they grow up engaging with internet and bypassing the establishmentarian narratives and agendas.

    Internet has been a big thing among millennials but an alternative right and such voices only came into the open in recent yrs. For too long, the 'right' was either soulless libertarianism or Con Inc.

    You have basically described managerialism as defined by Sam Francis. I am slowly reading through his magnum opus, Leviathan and Its Enemies. I heartily recommend it.

    Basically, he argues that the defining feature of managerialism is the shift from the local institutions, local churches, local government and entrepreneur-run businesses of the bourgeoisie to the mass organizations of the managerial elite. These elites are empowered not by ownership, which is diffuse (think stockholders in a corp or citizens in a republic), but by control, which comes to them by virtue of the specialized skills required to operate these organizations. He defines three types – mass corporations, mass media and mass government – and says that communism was simply a coercive form of managerialism, contrasted with the manipulative soft managerialism of the West. Mass organizations became necessary with the populations explosion and technological development, but the shift was gradual, with the bourgeoisie and the prescriptive elites (aristocrats) maintaining some power and influence. But there is a continuous battle, just like the bourgeois once supported nation-states, constitutional monarchies and parliamentary republics to rob the prescriptive elites they were replacing of their power.

    He then cites elite theory, particularly Gaetano Mosca’s idea of “political formula”, which is how an elite group rationalizes its hold on power – God wills it, I was born to it, it is just and moral, we must protect from the Great Satan etc. Our managerial elites have such a formula based on equality, past sins, current slights etc, to rationalize opening borders and freeing (managing) trade, which enhances their power at the expense of the other groups. This is why Congress can’t seem to get anything done anymore. Meanwhile, the managerial elites increasingly identify as a class with its own tastes and beliefs and moral code, even though there are still conflicts between the variants in each type of mass organizations. Fundamentally, however, they find more in common among themselves and people like them from other countries than with their own countrymen. Davos Man is simply the elites of the managerial elite, especially if you look at who attends.

    Read the book. It will blow your mind. It is “Das Kapital” for the Right.

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  89. res says:
    @aug
    maybe you should have read to the end of the article on Recode, a number of studies are mentioned.

    maybe you should have read to the end of the article on Recode, a number of studies are mentioned.

    Please point to one that includes an actual quote or a decent reference (and there is a difference between a quote or reference and a “mention”). I see lots of vague book references, a link to the NYT, some links to people’s credentials or organizations, but I am just not finding studies with actual references. Much less a substantive quote from one (especially one mentioning actual data).

    Seriously, please prove me wrong.

    And to be clear, vague and unreferenced (if you’d like to chase the original references down from the minimal information given, be my guest) statements like:

    A review of studies of U.S. decision makers who have the power to hire candidates found that clearly competent men were rated higher than equally competent women. This bias is especially rampant in the high-tech industry. One study, conducted by professors at Columbia, Northwestern and the University of Chicago, found that two-thirds of managers selected male job candidates, even when the men did not perform as well as the women on math problems that were part of the application process.

    Over the past two decades, men in the U.S. are spending more and more time on housework and childcare on both workdays and weekends. Indeed, their time spent on such tasks is close to that spent by their wives, according to the National Study of the Changing Workforce.
    The psychological well-being of employed married fathers is as closely linked to their family as to their employee roles, according to a study directed by Dr. Barnett.

    just don’t cut it. Neither do paraphrases of what the studies supposedly said. Those are basically as useful as all of the “paraphrases” of Damore’s memo we have seen.

    It is depressing how much better referenced Damore’s memo was than the Recode article.

    Then there is the issue of whether those study “mentions” actually refute Damore’s contentions about sex differences. Do you think they do?

    For what it is worth, here is the background of the scientist half of the Recode duo: http://www.brandeis.edu/barnett/

    Rosalind Barnett is a Senior Scientist at the Women’s Studies Research Center.

    Clearly an impartial observer with no axes to grind.

    I don’t see anything that looks like a serious examination of sex differences in ability in her research papers, but perhaps I am missing something?

    http://www.brandeis.edu/barnett/papers.html

    And for a look at something which at least engages with the literature, compare the Recode article to https://heterodoxacademy.org/2017/08/10/the-google-memo-what-does-the-research-say-about-gender-differences/
    You’ll see lots of studies with titles, authors, links, abstracts, etc. And those studies even talk about sex differences in ability–the topic at hand.

    P.S. Welcome. Interesting choice for your first comment on the Unz Review (I am assuming the 2008 and earlier commenter Aug is someone else). Why so much concern over the Recode article?

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  90. @Jack Hanson
    I'm not amazed how many people here, on the Most Important Blog Ever, think the goal here is filthy lucre ("HE GUNNA SETTLE BIG") and not taking the fight to one of lairs of the Left.

    If anything, its becoming more obvious that something other than MAKE DEM BUX is driving Damore. Good man.

    I agree. (Agree button not working for me.)

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  91. @Steve Sailer
    "Mad Men" was like an unfunny, unmusical "How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying."

    I tried to watch Mad Men but the fact that there was not a single character I could like or even find interesting made it not worth the effort. Who would have thought that a show about Madison Avenue would have fewer sympathetic characters than a show about the New Jersey Mafia…

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  92. Ivy says:
    @Lot
    I think wildfire fighters make a lot more than that in California.

    Smoke jumpers and others used to call those thunder clouds Cumulus Overtimus, or Cumulus Cashregistorius, take your pick.

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  93. @Bill P
    I'll happily argue for it. I should have been educated in single sex classrooms. You know what it's like to be a 17yo boy with a hot girl wearing a tank top and tight shorts sitting a few feet in front of you suggestively twirling her hair with her finger? Do you think that kind of environment is conducive to paying attention to what the teacher is saying?

    Boys who actually have balls are poorly served in mixed-sex learning environments, and for more reasons than the very important one I referred to above.

    I attended exclusively single sex Orthodox Jewish schools, and I think the lack of distraction was very helpful. Mind you, the Yeshiva schedule from 9th grade and up is much more intensive than Public school.The norm is 8 AM to 7 PM with 1.5 hour break for lunch , and a 1.5-2 hour night session tacked on.

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  94. eah says:

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  95. @MB
    The real problem is that the Goolag screens for what it considers inappropriate content and filters out the politically incorrect its technically superior product/algorithm notwithstanding. (Ahem, how do we know this? Because we are a nonperson on the Big G, but not on Bing.) Even Ixquick which keeps your IP private, uses G unfortunately.

    Because we are a nonperson on the Big G, but not on Bing.) Even Ixquick which keeps your IP private, uses G unfortunately.

    What does this mean?

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  96. Natisha says: • Website

    Ɗaddy wins!? The twіns declareԀ.

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