The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
IQ Researcher: Don't Try to Close the Gap, Try to Boost Everybody
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From SchoolsWeek in the UK:

IQ may mean achievement gap can never close

Sophie Scott | Sep 13, 2015

An academic researcher has suggested that academic achievement “gaps” between different groups of pupils cannot be closed as differences in intelligence cannot be “erased”.

Dr Stuart Ritchie (pictured), from the University of Edinburgh, presented research describing the genetic link to IQ, a measure of intelligence, and its controversies in education.

Ritchie has a new primer on IQ out: Intelligence: All That Matters.

Speaking to Schools Week after Saturday’s event, Dr Ritchie said teachers should not dismiss IQ tests.

“There is a very strong correlation between IQ and certain factors, such as mortality. Research with more than one million subjects shows this is not just a coincidence. It is strong evidence.

“Research shows that education can improve intelligence. But you cannot get away from the fact that is a genetic [intelligence] trait.

“There are various aspects of the environment that can improve intelligence – malnourished kids get poorer scores – but that is not as much of a problem in the UK.”

One delegate on Saturday asked Dr Ritchie: “If [achievement] difference is so genetic what does that mean for attempts to close the gap between pupils with disadvantaged and less advantaged backgrounds?”

He responded: “It means it is much more difficult than people assume.”

Dr Ritchie explained that while there is some evidence that environments can impact intelligence, most research suggested that education could lift all people’s intelligence, but not even it out.

“But maybe making everyone equal is not what we are looking for. Maybe we are looking for bringing everyone up, and everyone doing the best they can do, rather than only bringing up those at the lower end.”

Another audience member asked why [they] should be a teacher if the result “has nothing to do with [them]”.

Previous academic studies found that schooling could increase the average (mean) intelligence across cohorts, Dr Ritchie said.

“You could theoretically increase everyone’s intelligence, though the heritability levels stays the same. So you could think about raising people’s mean intelligence and not erasing the difference. So it is less likely that we can equalise intelligence — and not everyone even wants to do that — but it is much more likely we can raise mean intelligence than erase differences.”

In 2010 in VDARE, I proposed:

So what goal do I propose instead of Closing The Gap?

My goal, instead, would be to raise the average performance of all racial groups by half a standard deviation.

In other words, both goals are intended to improve the national average by half a standard deviation—but the Gates-Obama-Bush-Kennedy consensus wants to do it entirely by raising the scores of the minority half.

Which objective sounds more achievable?

Mine, obviously, for two reasons:

- Diminishing marginal returns: a one standard deviation improvement is not merely twice as hard to accomplish as a half-standard deviation performance, it’s much harder.

- Real improvements tend to better everybody’s performance. For example, I can drive a golf ball farther off the tee than I could 15 years ago because driver technology has significantly improved. (Clubheads are approaching the size of toasters, so you can now take a wild swipe at the ball without fear of whiffing). But then, Phil Mickelson can also hit the ball farther, too. So the pro-hacker gap in driving distance hasn`t closed.

In summary: my aim is both more achievable, more fair, and more sensible than the Gates-Obama-Bush-Kennedy consensus.

In the criminal justice world, Ta-Nehisi Coates wants to Close the Gap:

“If by some feat of magic we returned to 1970 levels of incarceration, it’s not enough for me to see those levels reduced but still see a 5-to-1, 6-to-1, 7-to-1 black-to-white incarceration ratio. How do you get to a place where the black-to-white incarceration ratio is 1-to-1?”

Fortunately, after decades of listening to TNC’s intellectual forebears, which led both to more crime and perhaps slightly worse Gaps, the country finally turned back to guys like Bill Bratton who didn’t care that much about Closing the Gap, he just cared about cutting the crime rate.

And guess what: by focusing on what could actually be done, crime has been cut.

What education needs are some Bill Bratton types who don’t care about Closing the Gap but care about everybody learning more. Instead, education is filled with TNCs.

 
Hide 36 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Dr Ritchie explained that while there is some evidence that environments can impact intelligence, most research suggested that education could lift all people’s intelligence, but not even it out.

    Ritchie sells that idea a lot, but there’s not really any evidence that this can be done*, short of eugenics or some future smart pill.

    *In the developed world anyway. There may be measures that might be effective for the developing world. Maybe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Ritchie is still very much concerned about preserving respectability, hence his caution. (That is understandable for a young academic).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. What education needs are some Bill Bratton types who don’t care about Closing the Gap but care about everybody learning more. Instead, education is filled with TNCs.

    I’d go further and say that we already have a very good public education system in the United States. It just is not terribly hard to teach children to a level pretty close to their innate ability. People have been experimenting and collecting statistics about pedagogical techniques all over the world for more than 100 years.

    What is impressive about the US system is that we doing very well compared to other parts of the world, adjusting for ethnicity, while our school year is quote short.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  3. A bonus, If you cannot accurately measure the students you probably cannot really measure the teachers either.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  4. Ritchie sells that idea a lot, but there’s not really any evidence that this can be done*, short of eugenics or some future smart pill.

    *In the developed world anyway.

    Prenatal health, in particular avoiding drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, plus breast feeding, is the simplest and cheapest way to narrow the pheno/geno IQ gap.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective. I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @JayMan

    Dr Ritchie explained that while there is some evidence that environments can impact intelligence, most research suggested that education could lift all people’s intelligence, but not even it out.
     
    Ritchie sells that idea a lot, but there's not really any evidence that this can be done*, short of eugenics or some future smart pill.

    *In the developed world anyway. There may be measures that might be effective for the developing world. Maybe.

    Ritchie is still very much concerned about preserving respectability, hence his caution. (That is understandable for a young academic).

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    But why should that be the respectable opinion? If nothing more can be done to increase intelligence environmentally, we should celebrate. Reacting with horror to that news would be like reacting with horror to the eradication of polio.
    , @wolfy
    race realists are overconfident.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. OT Refugee Edition: Croatia is now the next victim, er, country to have transient guests.

    Sailerites: Just how are thousands of indigent young men, with the odd kid in a stroller, getting around the Balkans? How are they affording buses, trains or whatever other method may be available? The distances are long, the terrain arduous, yet there is a daily roulette of new borders to breach.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  7. @Lot

    Ritchie sells that idea a lot, but there’s not really any evidence that this can be done*, short of eugenics or some future smart pill.

    *In the developed world anyway.
     
    Prenatal health, in particular avoiding drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, plus breast feeding, is the simplest and cheapest way to narrow the pheno/geno IQ gap.

    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective. I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.

    Read More
    • Agree: SPMoore8, NOTA
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I think they pretty much are. You yourself point out that adjusted for race, the US has some of the best PISA scores around.

    I am very skeptical about further environmental interventions raising IQ. Radical technologies like raising IQs through CRISPR are the obvious way forwards. Deus Ex-like neural augmentation might become a possibility sometime this century though its very sci-fi'ish and Bostrom is skeptical about it.
    , @The most deplorable one

    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective.
     
    There will always be those who get more out of education than others do, and those who are able to teach themselves.

    I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.
     
    That's not really their purpose, is it?
    , @Jason Bayz
    A (relatively) easy step would be to crack down on troublemakers and class clowns, but then you'd find another gap...
    , @Pat Casey
    Understatement. When my mom taught grade school in Anacostia fifteen or so years ago DC spent more per pupil than any school district in the nation and had the lowest test scores, with Anacostia as the bane of that broken system. I have no idea where all that money went, but a couple few times I sat in on her class, and well you understand immediately why the only white women who can endure the job are the ones who consider it a religious calling. It's sort of like, if you show fluster, they smell blood, and all is lost--- because they know white women won't bark at black kids. (I don't exactly know how they know that either but they do.) Anyways, what she came up with when unwinding and regrouping became necessary, as it periodically did throughout the day, was play music they didn't know, like Elton John or a catchy Beetles song. Peace would perfectly ensue, like a tranquilizer. It was very interesting. And the fact that musical ability does not correlate with IQ has always struck me as the most interesting single finding of psychometrics, and somehow must hold the key to the best way to educate blacks---cheaper, easier, truer edification. The Iliad and The Odyssey were at one time esteemed as a comprehensive curriculum in grammar, rhetoric, history, geography, navigation, strategy, even medicine. And of course they were poems that were probably more sung than chanted.... All I know is that Sister Act 2 was nothing but awesome.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. OT ?

    The law of the Canadian border may be universal:

    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/09/north-south-divide-japanese-style.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Langley
    and while I am posting semi-off topic on IQ:

    Why "my people" don't have more Nobel prizes:

    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/09/asians-bright-but-not-curious.html
    , @wolfy
    it is not true in india,.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective. I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.

    I think they pretty much are. You yourself point out that adjusted for race, the US has some of the best PISA scores around.

    I am very skeptical about further environmental interventions raising IQ. Radical technologies like raising IQs through CRISPR are the obvious way forwards. Deus Ex-like neural augmentation might become a possibility sometime this century though its very sci-fi’ish and Bostrom is skeptical about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    If the results have anything to do with spending, they hit their limits long long ago: http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/wp-content/uploads/Cato-tot-cost-scores-Coulson-Sept-2012-sm.gif

    This just reinforces the point from my previous comment. You can never declare victory and go home.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. Considering the stupendous ( and unsustainable) amounts of money spent on social and academic programs to eliminate group achievement differences that have never worked we might be better off trying to understand the genetic component of intelligence and working at the problem from that end.

    A trillion dollars spent on education will not make people with low IQs into molecular biologists but a trillion dollars spent on molecular biology just might.

    Were it possible to raise IQs through genetic engineering most of our social problems would dissipate. Race has never really been a problem by itself. It is racial differences that create social tensions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It is fantasy that raising IQ's would dissipate all social problems. There are other dimensions of personality such as conscientiousness and propensity for violence that come into play. Also, why do you expect that higher IQ will have any happier experience as jobs are eliminated by automation technologies? Plenty of knowledge jobs are even easier to automate than are manual jobs. Why would having a 140 IQ make joblessness and privation better than if one had a 100 IQ?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. @Langley
    OT ?

    The law of the Canadian border may be universal:

    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/09/north-south-divide-japanese-style.html

    and while I am posting semi-off topic on IQ:

    Why “my people” don’t have more Nobel prizes:

    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/09/asians-bright-but-not-curious.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    This conundrum was illustrated in the New Yorker's profile of mathematician Yitang Zhang. Both Zhang and his Ph.D. advisor at Purdue were Chinese. The advisor appeared to be controlling and he and Zhang did not part on good terms. Without a recommendation from his advisor Zhang worked odd jobs for nearly a decade before becoming a lecturer at the University of NH. UNH did not make him a professor until 2014 after he established an important mathematical theorem.

    This simply couldn't have happened in east Asian. Western culture allows a person to buck the system and fail and try again, which ultimately leads to breakthroughs.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective. I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.

    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective.

    There will always be those who get more out of education than others do, and those who are able to teach themselves.

    I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.

    That’s not really their purpose, is it?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Baby steps to Sharia. Not surprised that it was a women judge who made such a decision. Women will fold first. Feminists take note.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. But Brattons policies are now dead. BLM and de Blasio killed it along with Soros. Consensus is that better to live in Judge Dredd land without Dredd than to arrest young Black men. White men sure. But not Blacks.

    Education policy consists of punishing White kids and ignoring Black bad behavior. Example Trayvon Martin no charges for punching a school bus driver.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "But Brattons policies are now dead. BLM and de Blasio killed it along with Soros. Consensus is that better to live in Judge Dredd land without Dredd than to arrest young Black men. White men sure. But not Blacks."

    In the remake of Judge Dredd where Dredd enters a very dangerous low income housing project, most of the violent drug dealers are Whites and not Black males.

    In real life there is nothing predominantly White about America's housing projects.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Better education will increase the gap.

    Jensen (2003) proposed “two laws
    of individual differences”: (a) Individual differences in learning and performance
    increase as task complexity increases, and (b) individual differences in perfor-
    mance increase with practice and experience (unless there is a low ceiling on
    proficiency).

    Whites with less than high school education have comparable scores to college educated blacks,

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/applying-occams-razor-vs-asserting-occams-racist/

    Equality will lead to even more inequality.

    As for raising IQ, verbal IQ does seem amenable to those efforts, at least from the plunge in SAT-V scores after 60s.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  16. @Priss Factor
    Justice Gap

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3238409/Judge-backs-harsher-sentence-given-paedophile-abused-Asian-girls-shame-suffer.html

    Baby steps to Sharia. Not surprised that it was a women judge who made such a decision. Women will fold first. Feminists take note.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Good point. Another consequence may well be "educating" Asian sexual predators to target European victims--the consequences will evidently be less. Ah, the wonders of diversity!!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. I was in one of my favorite places in the world today, Powell’s Bookstore, Hyde Park, Chicago. An older black lady came in and asked the staff where to find the opera omnia of Ta-Nehisi Coates. The staffers–both presumably SWPLs–replied that she should check Black Studies and Fiction. I almost burst out laughing. Were they having one over on their customer–or were they so much more focused on serious scholarship that they really don’t know who TNC is? In either case, good on them.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  18. @Whiskey
    But Brattons policies are now dead. BLM and de Blasio killed it along with Soros. Consensus is that better to live in Judge Dredd land without Dredd than to arrest young Black men. White men sure. But not Blacks.

    Education policy consists of punishing White kids and ignoring Black bad behavior. Example Trayvon Martin no charges for punching a school bus driver.

    “But Brattons policies are now dead. BLM and de Blasio killed it along with Soros. Consensus is that better to live in Judge Dredd land without Dredd than to arrest young Black men. White men sure. But not Blacks.”

    In the remake of Judge Dredd where Dredd enters a very dangerous low income housing project, most of the violent drug dealers are Whites and not Black males.

    In real life there is nothing predominantly White about America’s housing projects.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. Dr Stuart Ritchie (pictured)

    What is it with White people and these glasses?

    I mean it, please, SCIENCE, explain this to me!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "What is it with White people and these glasses?"

    You need glasses yourself. The oddest about the guy is his HAIR.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    What is it with White people and these glasses?
     
    Minions are in this summer.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. @Rifleman

    Dr Stuart Ritchie (pictured)
     
    What is it with White people and these glasses?

    I mean it, please, SCIENCE, explain this to me!!!!

    “What is it with White people and these glasses?”

    You need glasses yourself. The oddest about the guy is his HAIR.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. @Rifleman

    Dr Stuart Ritchie (pictured)
     
    What is it with White people and these glasses?

    I mean it, please, SCIENCE, explain this to me!!!!

    What is it with White people and these glasses?

    Minions are in this summer.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective. I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.

    A (relatively) easy step would be to crack down on troublemakers and class clowns, but then you’d find another gap…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  23. @Daniel H
    Baby steps to Sharia. Not surprised that it was a women judge who made such a decision. Women will fold first. Feminists take note.

    Good point. Another consequence may well be “educating” Asian sexual predators to target European victims–the consequences will evidently be less. Ah, the wonders of diversity!!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. @Steve Sailer
    Or maybe, even without changing IQs, you can make education more efficient and effective. I have a hard time believing that American public schools are delivering maximum possible effectiveness for the money spent.

    Understatement. When my mom taught grade school in Anacostia fifteen or so years ago DC spent more per pupil than any school district in the nation and had the lowest test scores, with Anacostia as the bane of that broken system. I have no idea where all that money went, but a couple few times I sat in on her class, and well you understand immediately why the only white women who can endure the job are the ones who consider it a religious calling. It’s sort of like, if you show fluster, they smell blood, and all is lost— because they know white women won’t bark at black kids. (I don’t exactly know how they know that either but they do.) Anyways, what she came up with when unwinding and regrouping became necessary, as it periodically did throughout the day, was play music they didn’t know, like Elton John or a catchy Beetles song. Peace would perfectly ensue, like a tranquilizer. It was very interesting. And the fact that musical ability does not correlate with IQ has always struck me as the most interesting single finding of psychometrics, and somehow must hold the key to the best way to educate blacks—cheaper, easier, truer edification. The Iliad and The Odyssey were at one time esteemed as a comprehensive curriculum in grammar, rhetoric, history, geography, navigation, strategy, even medicine. And of course they were poems that were probably more sung than chanted…. All I know is that Sister Act 2 was nothing but awesome.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    Blacks are good at music. Even blacks with an IQ that in a white person would render him or her totally dysfunctional are often capable of exceptional musical ability, by normal white standards.

    Many Whites condemn black music out of hand because they think gangsta rap is typical black music, but there are many groups of blacks doing many kinds of music. Although none of them have the harmonic rigor of Mozart or Bach, most are also not overtly violent, destructive or antisocial. I'm thinking of many Caribbean forms, but also of the Hammond organ playing in hundreds of black churches, the sacred steel guitar in a few others, and indeed most of the jazz and mainstream classic pop black performers in the US. To say nothing of Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, the Fifth Dimension, and indeed a good part of the Motown catalog.

    A few of these people are pretty smart even by white standards-I think Motown owner Berry Gordy and Quincy Jones are both probably at least 120 IQ-but the majority of black musicians I have met and talked to are probably less intelligent overall than the average white person in America. For that matter, of course, many famous white performers are on the backside of the Bell Curve.

    Can one enjoy blacks' composition and performance of music-and for that matter their athletic achievements-and still recognize that the same people can't run a functioning society? That they can't organize amongst themselves to accomplish anything taking long term planning, that they can't keep from eating the seed corn and butchering the milk cow for an immediate feast, that the instruments they often play so deftly would never exist if it weren't for outside forces?

    I hope so.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  25. @Anatoly Karlin
    Ritchie is still very much concerned about preserving respectability, hence his caution. (That is understandable for a young academic).

    But why should that be the respectable opinion? If nothing more can be done to increase intelligence environmentally, we should celebrate. Reacting with horror to that news would be like reacting with horror to the eradication of polio.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. @Anatoly Karlin
    I think they pretty much are. You yourself point out that adjusted for race, the US has some of the best PISA scores around.

    I am very skeptical about further environmental interventions raising IQ. Radical technologies like raising IQs through CRISPR are the obvious way forwards. Deus Ex-like neural augmentation might become a possibility sometime this century though its very sci-fi'ish and Bostrom is skeptical about it.

    If the results have anything to do with spending, they hit their limits long long ago:

    This just reinforces the point from my previous comment. You can never declare victory and go home.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  27. @Pat Casey
    Understatement. When my mom taught grade school in Anacostia fifteen or so years ago DC spent more per pupil than any school district in the nation and had the lowest test scores, with Anacostia as the bane of that broken system. I have no idea where all that money went, but a couple few times I sat in on her class, and well you understand immediately why the only white women who can endure the job are the ones who consider it a religious calling. It's sort of like, if you show fluster, they smell blood, and all is lost--- because they know white women won't bark at black kids. (I don't exactly know how they know that either but they do.) Anyways, what she came up with when unwinding and regrouping became necessary, as it periodically did throughout the day, was play music they didn't know, like Elton John or a catchy Beetles song. Peace would perfectly ensue, like a tranquilizer. It was very interesting. And the fact that musical ability does not correlate with IQ has always struck me as the most interesting single finding of psychometrics, and somehow must hold the key to the best way to educate blacks---cheaper, easier, truer edification. The Iliad and The Odyssey were at one time esteemed as a comprehensive curriculum in grammar, rhetoric, history, geography, navigation, strategy, even medicine. And of course they were poems that were probably more sung than chanted.... All I know is that Sister Act 2 was nothing but awesome.

    Blacks are good at music. Even blacks with an IQ that in a white person would render him or her totally dysfunctional are often capable of exceptional musical ability, by normal white standards.

    Many Whites condemn black music out of hand because they think gangsta rap is typical black music, but there are many groups of blacks doing many kinds of music. Although none of them have the harmonic rigor of Mozart or Bach, most are also not overtly violent, destructive or antisocial. I’m thinking of many Caribbean forms, but also of the Hammond organ playing in hundreds of black churches, the sacred steel guitar in a few others, and indeed most of the jazz and mainstream classic pop black performers in the US. To say nothing of Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, the Fifth Dimension, and indeed a good part of the Motown catalog.

    A few of these people are pretty smart even by white standards-I think Motown owner Berry Gordy and Quincy Jones are both probably at least 120 IQ-but the majority of black musicians I have met and talked to are probably less intelligent overall than the average white person in America. For that matter, of course, many famous white performers are on the backside of the Bell Curve.

    Can one enjoy blacks’ composition and performance of music-and for that matter their athletic achievements-and still recognize that the same people can’t run a functioning society? That they can’t organize amongst themselves to accomplish anything taking long term planning, that they can’t keep from eating the seed corn and butchering the milk cow for an immediate feast, that the instruments they often play so deftly would never exist if it weren’t for outside forces?

    I hope so.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    I'll give you Jimi and Motown, but the rest fails to impress.
    , @kiev
    I'd rather read about jazz than listen to it
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  28. @Anatoly Karlin
    Ritchie is still very much concerned about preserving respectability, hence his caution. (That is understandable for a young academic).

    race realists are overconfident.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. @Langley
    OT ?

    The law of the Canadian border may be universal:

    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/09/north-south-divide-japanese-style.html

    it is not true in india,.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. Speaking of William Bratton:

    “Is Southern California the New Deep South?”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/09/southern_california_sentences_more_people_to_death_than_texas_georgia_south.html

    My 1st thought on seeing this headline was something from Derbyshire’s podcast, about his wife having mostly common northeast-Democrat views except for the death penalty (consistent with the pattern of Chinese immigrants, he said). The last jury duty I served in Pasadena had 5 East Asian women, albeit for a robbery case. But I also doubt there’s truly any new social phenomenon at work here; the law professor’s article omits the notorious political-judicial saga of the death penalty in California, which I suppose is already well known locally but would probably aid the understanding of the subject to outsiders/millennials.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  31. @Former Darfur
    Blacks are good at music. Even blacks with an IQ that in a white person would render him or her totally dysfunctional are often capable of exceptional musical ability, by normal white standards.

    Many Whites condemn black music out of hand because they think gangsta rap is typical black music, but there are many groups of blacks doing many kinds of music. Although none of them have the harmonic rigor of Mozart or Bach, most are also not overtly violent, destructive or antisocial. I'm thinking of many Caribbean forms, but also of the Hammond organ playing in hundreds of black churches, the sacred steel guitar in a few others, and indeed most of the jazz and mainstream classic pop black performers in the US. To say nothing of Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, the Fifth Dimension, and indeed a good part of the Motown catalog.

    A few of these people are pretty smart even by white standards-I think Motown owner Berry Gordy and Quincy Jones are both probably at least 120 IQ-but the majority of black musicians I have met and talked to are probably less intelligent overall than the average white person in America. For that matter, of course, many famous white performers are on the backside of the Bell Curve.

    Can one enjoy blacks' composition and performance of music-and for that matter their athletic achievements-and still recognize that the same people can't run a functioning society? That they can't organize amongst themselves to accomplish anything taking long term planning, that they can't keep from eating the seed corn and butchering the milk cow for an immediate feast, that the instruments they often play so deftly would never exist if it weren't for outside forces?

    I hope so.

    I’ll give you Jimi and Motown, but the rest fails to impress.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    I’ll give you Jimi and Motown, but the rest fails to impress.

     

    If Hendrix impresses you more than gospel, Dixieland, Joplin, Ellington/Strayhorn, Nat Cole, etc, then your tastes are somewhat upside down. The only thing that impresses me about Jimi is that he could play the guitar four ways-- right- or left-handed, strung either way.

    Detroit schools used to emphasize classical music, and that shows in Motown. Instrumentation and harmony aside, Smokey Robinson referenced Pagliacci in "Tears of a Clown". How many white kids could identify Pagliacci?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  32. Of related interest is this modest proposal by Toby Young in Quadrant

    http://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2015/09/fall-meritocracy/

    The striking thing is that Young, a mainstream conservative journalist and educationalist who knows David Cameron slightly, is prepared to be open about the heritability of IQ in a way that his type would not have been 20 or 30 years ago.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  33. @Former Darfur
    Blacks are good at music. Even blacks with an IQ that in a white person would render him or her totally dysfunctional are often capable of exceptional musical ability, by normal white standards.

    Many Whites condemn black music out of hand because they think gangsta rap is typical black music, but there are many groups of blacks doing many kinds of music. Although none of them have the harmonic rigor of Mozart or Bach, most are also not overtly violent, destructive or antisocial. I'm thinking of many Caribbean forms, but also of the Hammond organ playing in hundreds of black churches, the sacred steel guitar in a few others, and indeed most of the jazz and mainstream classic pop black performers in the US. To say nothing of Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, the Fifth Dimension, and indeed a good part of the Motown catalog.

    A few of these people are pretty smart even by white standards-I think Motown owner Berry Gordy and Quincy Jones are both probably at least 120 IQ-but the majority of black musicians I have met and talked to are probably less intelligent overall than the average white person in America. For that matter, of course, many famous white performers are on the backside of the Bell Curve.

    Can one enjoy blacks' composition and performance of music-and for that matter their athletic achievements-and still recognize that the same people can't run a functioning society? That they can't organize amongst themselves to accomplish anything taking long term planning, that they can't keep from eating the seed corn and butchering the milk cow for an immediate feast, that the instruments they often play so deftly would never exist if it weren't for outside forces?

    I hope so.

    I’d rather read about jazz than listen to it

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  34. @Ozymandias
    I'll give you Jimi and Motown, but the rest fails to impress.

    I’ll give you Jimi and Motown, but the rest fails to impress.

    If Hendrix impresses you more than gospel, Dixieland, Joplin, Ellington/Strayhorn, Nat Cole, etc, then your tastes are somewhat upside down. The only thing that impresses me about Jimi is that he could play the guitar four ways– right- or left-handed, strung either way.

    Detroit schools used to emphasize classical music, and that shows in Motown. Instrumentation and harmony aside, Smokey Robinson referenced Pagliacci in “Tears of a Clown”. How many white kids could identify Pagliacci?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  35. @Langley
    and while I am posting semi-off topic on IQ:

    Why "my people" don't have more Nobel prizes:

    http://drjamesthompson.blogspot.com/2015/09/asians-bright-but-not-curious.html

    This conundrum was illustrated in the New Yorker’s profile of mathematician Yitang Zhang. Both Zhang and his Ph.D. advisor at Purdue were Chinese. The advisor appeared to be controlling and he and Zhang did not part on good terms. Without a recommendation from his advisor Zhang worked odd jobs for nearly a decade before becoming a lecturer at the University of NH. UNH did not make him a professor until 2014 after he established an important mathematical theorem.

    This simply couldn’t have happened in east Asian. Western culture allows a person to buck the system and fail and try again, which ultimately leads to breakthroughs.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @unit472
    Considering the stupendous ( and unsustainable) amounts of money spent on social and academic programs to eliminate group achievement differences that have never worked we might be better off trying to understand the genetic component of intelligence and working at the problem from that end.

    A trillion dollars spent on education will not make people with low IQs into molecular biologists but a trillion dollars spent on molecular biology just might.

    Were it possible to raise IQs through genetic engineering most of our social problems would dissipate. Race has never really been a problem by itself. It is racial differences that create social tensions.

    It is fantasy that raising IQ’s would dissipate all social problems. There are other dimensions of personality such as conscientiousness and propensity for violence that come into play. Also, why do you expect that higher IQ will have any happier experience as jobs are eliminated by automation technologies? Plenty of knowledge jobs are even easier to automate than are manual jobs. Why would having a 140 IQ make joblessness and privation better than if one had a 100 IQ?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The major media overlooked Communist spies and Madoff’s fraud. What are they missing today?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored