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In the Atlantic, Ta-Nehisi Coates Denounces Calls for Nonviolence in Baltimore
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From The Atlantic:

Nonviolence as Compliance

Officials calling for calm can offer no rational justification for Gray’s death, and so they appeal for order.

TA-NEHISI COATES APR 27, 2015

Rioting broke out on Monday in Baltimore—an angry response to the death of Freddie Gray, a death my native city seems powerless to explain. Gray did not die mysteriously in some back alley but in the custody of the city’s publicly appointed guardians of order. And yet the mayor of that city and the commissioner of that city’s police still have no idea what happened. I suspect this is not because the mayor and police commissioner are bad people, but because the state of Maryland prioritizes the protection of police officers charged with abuse over the citizens who fall under its purview.

The citizens who live in West Baltimore, where the rioting began, intuitively understand this. I grew up across the street from Mondawmin Mall, where today’s riots began. My mother was raised in the same housing project, Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray was killed. Everyone I knew who lived in that world regarded the police not with admiration and respect but with fear and caution. …

Not enough fear and caution apparently, judging by the videos.

Now, tonight, I turn on the news and I see politicians calling for young people in Baltimore to remain peaceful and “nonviolent.” These well-intended pleas strike me as the right answer to the wrong question. To understand the question, it’s worth remembering what, specifically, happened to Freddie Gray. …

When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse.

Think about that for awhile …

The people now calling for nonviolence are not prepared to answer these questions. Many of them are charged with enforcing the very policies that led to Gray’s death, and yet they can offer no rational justification for Gray’s death and so they appeal for calm. But there was no official appeal for calm when Gray was being arrested. …

When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con. And none of this can mean that rioting or violence is “correct” or “wise,” any more than a forest fire can be “correct” or “wise.” Wisdom isn’t the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community.

Who disses whom? What else could possibly matter?

 
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  1. Fleeing Baltimore: The Documentary

    Former Baltimore City residents explain why they fled the City for the safety of the surrounding counties.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    Thanks I was looking for this the other day.
    , @slumber_j
    That video is great. Thanks for posting it.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    Synopsis: Smart, civic-minded, good-humored white people express their frustrations over living smack-dab in the middle of the Black ghetto of Baltimore with its Black-run administration; and, despite their years of unstinting effort, failing to make so much as a dent on the crime and filth and noise and dangers attendant on living there.

    Though their black neighbors figure large in the video, including a carjacker who is described as threatening, on camera, the life of a white activist, the word Black, unless I am much mistaken, is never uttered at any time in the video.

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  2. “There was no official appeal for calm when…Gray was being arrested.” Wasn’t there? They didn’t tell him to take off,did they??

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  3. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    More violence, yay.

    Lib vs Lib War!

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  4. Wyrd says:

    How tiresome it must be to be so monumentally self-righteous everyday, but apparently that’s the sacrifice Coates willingly makes for The Dipshit Cause.

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    • Replies: @Retired
    Should be driving a cab.
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  5. MLK says:

    Wisdom isn’t the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community.

    Who disses whom? What else could possibly matter?

    Coates apparently views Baltimore’s black residents and its police as prison inmates and guards, respectively. He is propounding the rules of Prison Culture.

    I guess you could say that falls under the rubric of Keeping it Real.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Good point.
    , @Hubbub
    Power to you, MLK. You actually understood that bit of tripe?
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  6. Hipster says:

    Nonviolence is Racism
    Peace is Slavery

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  7. Art Deco says: • Website
    @MLK

    Wisdom isn’t the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community.
     

    Who disses whom? What else could possibly matter?
     
    Coates apparently views Baltimore's black residents and its police as prison inmates and guards, respectively. He is propounding the rules of Prison Culture.

    I guess you could say that falls under the rubric of Keeping it Real.

    Good point.

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  8. H2 says:

    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    I’ve read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we’re inching towards something like that.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    I don't quite get why the country's most popular black social writer is afraid of a comment board? Everything he writes is automatically and universally praised by the left wing media. Vox for example uses his writings as a guide to cover black issues. Whatever TNC says, Vox says too.

    So what is he afraid of?
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I'm surprised the Coates's editor lets him close off comments. Think of all the hits the Atlantic is missing out on.
    , @ben tillman

    Comments are closed on the article, of course.
     
    It's a good thing, too, because Coates bans people left and right. Otherwise, The Atlantic is much more tolerant of intelligence and conservative perspectives than is a rag like National Review.
    , @WowJustWow
    IIRC, the villain is a mulatto politician under the control of white carpetbaggers.

    And no, I didn't think about Obama until after I typed that.
    , @Truth

    I’ve read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we’re inching towards something like that.
     
    Uh, not until, old Boy, average white men like yourself are ready to join the KKK.
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  9. Art Deco says: • Website

    I suppose it’s jejune to point out that someone with an adult cast of mind might entertain the question of just what it is the employees of local business do which is addressed by mass theft and vandalism, or just when it’s reasonable to expect a coroner’s inquest to be completed, or just what the implications are for the future of local commerce and real estate when this sort of thing happens.

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  10. Coates consistently does violence to the English language.

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    • Replies: @Kylie

    Coates consistently does violence to the English language.
     
    No surprise there. His people consistently do violence to the civilization that produced the English language.
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  11. … they can offer no rational justification for Gray’s death.

    Ta should look up the definition of the word “accident”.

    When a criminal resists arrest, he places everyone, including himself in danger, and sometimes unintended, things, or “accidents” if you will, happen.

    Is Ta just pretending to be stupid or is he stupid for real?

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    An ex-cop on another forum suspects the cops roughed him up by throwing him in the paddy wagon cuffed, without a seat belt, and speeding up, then violently stepping on the brakes a few times.
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  12. Jefferson says:

    The term thug is the new N word now

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/baltimore-riots-thug-n-word/

    So does this mean the word thug will now be considered hate speech on SWPL college campuses like UC Berkeley?

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    • Replies: @Honorary Thief
    Hate creep yo.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    At the rate we're losing acceptable expressions for describing violent Black criminals, soon we'll be down to only "Perfect Angel" and "Gentle Giant."
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  13. David says:

    I like that fact that he laments, “people… are not prepared to answer these questions” while the Atlantic allows no comments. I can answer the question: blacks interact more often with the police and they interact more violently. So they end up dead at the hands of the police more often. You’re welcome, TC.

    You know, once his incandescent enfant terrible phase is done, we’ll get to read about how his humanity overcame his righteous hate and allowed him to love even Whitey. Rather than angry, he’ll just be sad about how white people failed his people.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I like that fact that he laments, “people… are not prepared to answer these questions” while the Atlantic allows no comments. I can answer the question: blacks interact more often with the police and they interact more violently. So they end up dead at the hands of the police more often. You’re welcome, TC.
     
    More often in absolute terms, but once you account for those variables, they actually end up dead at the hands of police less often.
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  14. Tim says:

    Good for him. He’s finally making sense. Coates’s career is like a syllogism in which the conclusion is missing even though it follows inexorably from the premises: “therefore, black nationalism.”

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  15. Anonym says:

    Maybe if they had enough collective self-control not to offend at 10x the rate of the white population, the police would have some patience. Black lives matter? This is the kind of life lived that would have gotten a white Englishman executed in past centuries. Does society really need another violent drug dealer?

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/28/freddie-gray-had-a-long-criminal-record/

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Two truths:

    1) Police brutality is wrong and should be prosecuted.

    2) Cops aren't saints, and the more times you interact with them, the more you risk getting hurt or killed.

    TNC seems to grok 1) but not 2).
    , @Annie

    Maybe if they had enough collective self-control not to offend at 10x the rate of the white population, the police would have some patience. Black lives matter? This is the kind of life lived that would have gotten a white Englishman executed in past centuries. Does society really need another violent drug dealer?
     
    And maybe that is why we have so few such Englishmen, but have an African continent spilling over with them.
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  16. MLK says:

    I don’t read Coates. So I am perfectly prepared for one you to tell me this is par for the course for him. However, it strikes me he’s too close to this, and that did anything but help clarifying his thinking:

    The citizens who live in West Baltimore, where the rioting began, intuitively understand this. I grew up across the street from Mondawmin Mall, where today’s riots began. My mother was raised in the same housing project, Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray was killed.

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    • Replies: @pinto

    My mother was raised in the same housing project, Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray was killed.
     
    Yeah, he is emotionally close, but geographically far. I wonder how white Coates's neighborhood is, hmm?
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  17. Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    I have read that the late Freddie Gray had been living with his sister, in a housing project in West Baltimore, at the time of his arrest. Yesterday's story, at the Web site that you cite, showed part of a document for a case involving a Freddie Gray, Jr., with his address given as one north of downtown (a few blocks east of a Safeway that I used to walk to, on occasion, when I lived across from the United States Post Office and Court House Building, downtown, a block west of City Hall). Today's article, on the other hand, shows part of a document for a case involving a Freddie Gray, with his address given as one in East Baltimore. So, are we dealing, now, with one Freddie Gray, two different Freddie Grays, or, even, three different Freddie Grays?!?
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  18. Hal says:

    I thought “TA-NEHISI” was a women’s name and that she was on her period.

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  19. Dew says:

    Coates can’t blame an overwhelming white police force anymore so he’s more race neutral in this article. Can’t make a case for reparations this time (not that the first was any good).

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Racism is like witchcraft, you only need "spectral evidence" or as we say now "invisible knapsacks".

    All TNC needs is pictures of "highways to the suburbs" (infamously said by 0bama), and he'll blame black poverty and dysfunction on that. The facts, to us, do not matter to him. All that matters is that YT must pay.
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  20. Forbes says:

    As you reap, so shall you sow, TNC.

    it’s worth remembering what, specifically, happened to Freddie Gray.

    OK, I give up. What happened to Freddie Gray? Specifically?

    It doesn’t seem anyone knows, specifically. What is known only lends itself to speculation–not hard and fast conclusions.

    But the politicians calling for calm are wrong. The politicians elected by the people of Baltimore.

    Temper tantrums are cathartic for adolescents. TNC has joined them.

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  21. Arclight says:

    Coates explicitly stated in an piece a few months back that he believes systemic white racism is 100% responsible for black people’s failings and they bear absolutely no responsibility for any of their shortcomings themselves. When you start from the premise that nothing is your fault and it can completely be attributed to an external force (a tactic my young children employ) there is no reasoning with the person that holds that belief.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term “plunder”, an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he’s been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He doesn’t have an original thought in his head, but because he parrots the party line fairly well and he’s black, he gets approving mentions/pats on the head but his fans in the media.

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    • Replies: @Bert

    and possibly the mention that he’s been to France or is in the process of learning French.
     
    He loves pointing that out. I'm guessing it makes him feel exotic and cultured.
    , @Ed

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term “plunder”, an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he’s been to France or is in the process of learning French.
     
    He's blamed his inability to pick up French, and the fact that he didn't learn it earlier on white racism.
    , @MLK
    Sure. But it still looks to me like he blew a gasket here.. After all, if he really believes it's a war, and while I'm no military expert the other side seems to have all the advantages even if slow on the uptake, he should explain why he's in another city tip-tapping out "We Will Never Surrender" orders while his peeps serve as cannon fodder?
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    This is an interesting point. If he blames whitey so much, why is he bothering to learn a white based language? Why not learn Swahili or Ugandan? Or Egyptian since everyone knows who built the pyramids and the Sphinx.

    But THC is basically a younger brother version of Obama. Same message, the historic American nation is/was racist, all whites are racists, etc. but its a little less nuanced for national consumption.
    , @ben tillman
    Coates is the same kind of mascot that Malcolm Little disdained himself for being when he was elected student body (or senior class?) president at his mostly White high school. Of course, Malcolm X probably had 20 or 30 IQ points on Two-Digit Coates, so Coates's case is much more patronizingly pathetic.
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  22. Blah says:

    Breaking news: Dante DeBlasio has chosen to attend Yale.

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  23. Bert says:
    @Arclight
    Coates explicitly stated in an piece a few months back that he believes systemic white racism is 100% responsible for black people's failings and they bear absolutely no responsibility for any of their shortcomings themselves. When you start from the premise that nothing is your fault and it can completely be attributed to an external force (a tactic my young children employ) there is no reasoning with the person that holds that belief.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term "plunder", an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he's been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He doesn't have an original thought in his head, but because he parrots the party line fairly well and he's black, he gets approving mentions/pats on the head but his fans in the media.

    and possibly the mention that he’s been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He loves pointing that out. I’m guessing it makes him feel exotic and cultured.

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  24. Ed says:
    @Lackawanna
    Fleeing Baltimore: The Documentary

    Former Baltimore City residents explain why they fled the City for the safety of the surrounding counties.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccjMjqXEMxw

    Thanks I was looking for this the other day.

    Read More
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  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    In 1957 Eisenhower had to send the 101st Airborne to get young black men and women into school. In 1963 JFK nationalized the Alabama Guard to get the Governor out of the doorway and black men and women into college.

    Now in Baltimore, a city with a Black mayor and a majority non-white city council, black men and women they leave school to join in a riot and the Governor has to call out the national guard to stop them. College drop out T-Nehisis Coates applauds the rioters conduct.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lackawanna
    The question is why don't white Southerners react like Chechens now? They did in the 19th century. What are the psychological and social conditions that cause a people to fight an all out guerrilla war? Will the future belong to the Chechens, Nuristanis and other folks who follow the "better to die on my feet than live on my knees" view of foreign domination? Or will they go the way of the saber toothed tiger?

    What you are seeing in Baltimore is adolescent raiding like that of the Iron Age Spartans... or Zulus. The walking while white attacks are part of this too. White teenagers used to beat up people of different races and ethnic groups or from neighboring towns until a few generations ago. I'm sure many here have heard or read accounts of this being part of the tempo of daily life before WWII. Grandpa had to run to school rather than walk etc. Drunks getting rolled in small town America and so forth.

    This neo-race riot thing can do real damage to the liberal coalition. Liberal elites know this.

    I'm sure liberal academics are working creepy tactics to pacify urban blacks into their various social engineering schemes. Expect to see really intrusive and weird social engineering schemes rolled out with the unstated intent to correct the behavior of urban underclass blacks. In this kind of political environment, with hysteria building to "do something," frauds, cons and quackery thrive.

    Should be some wacked out stuff coming to education, social services, the legal system, policing, health care etc. over this. Special vitamins in the cafeteria food, new age stuff, self help hokum...not to mention more obvious stuff like black power curriculums and grants to gangs. Anything might get traction in this climate.
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  26. Tanisha Coates is approving violence conducted by his people bc they were “dissed.” Keep this in mind, Tanisha, if your son or any of these other inner city hooligans ever make it out to rural redneck areas and get gunned down left and right.

    As an example of the dramatic difference in IQ between the races, just check out how the blacks burned down their own neighborhoods in Ferguson and Baltimore when they were upset at the government. Now compare that to the Bundy ranch incident in Nevada, where armed and pissed off rednecks outflanked the BLM and sent them and the local sheriff’s deputies home with their tail between their legs in a humiliating surrender.

    Tamisha, given the much higher numbers, much better training, much better and larger amount of firearms, and a far higher IQ – do you really want to open up this can of worms about condoning violence between the races? How well did your people do against Europeans in combat for the last several centuries again?

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  27. advancedatheist [AKA "RedneckCryonicist"] says:

    Frankly I’d like to see the rioters help themselves to some cars in Baltimore and make the 40 mile road trip to D.C. to show some noncompliance in the nation’s capital.

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    • Replies: @tomdickhairy

    Frankly I’d like to see the rioters help themselves to some cars in Baltimore and make the 40 mile road trip to D.C. to show some noncompliance in the nation’s capital.
     
    I have heard this expressed by many others. If Freddie had died while in the hands of the D.C. police, the story would not have seen the light of day. Only the immediate family would know of his death. The story would die on an editor's desk.
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  28. The police should keep stats on the aggressions of the rioters: how many rocks were thrown etc. Society needs to do a better job of shaming this behavior at a deeper level. Even in 2015, there is the rare incident of genuine white on black/other hate crimes, but society is extremely successful at deeply shaming such actions where even the far right types bend over backwards to distance themselves from it. This same kind of shame and distancing should work both ways. I understand most protesters didn’t engage in violent rioting, but that logic is silly. Obama actively shames America over black slavery yet most Americans, even most southerners never owned slaves or participated in the slave trade. Obama still repeatedly generalizes the guilt and shame.

    If treatment of blacks and racism is so terrible, why are the voluntary migration patterns of black people not consistent with this? We see blacks fleeing Africa in large numbers, and fleeing places like Detroit and a small number of blacks are moving away from Baltimore, but they seem to be choosing places like recently white majority places like Ferguson, and of course Europe.

    I am personally married into the black American underclass, and through my wife, I know what a lot of blacks think on stuff like this. On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn’t grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it’s an excuse to riot. Lots of blacks are genuinely embarrassed by this behavior. And some avoid discussing it or thinking about it, because there isn’t really a happy way to view this situation. They would still be horrified by what Steve Sailer says or what I think. Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd. Coates is one of the more extreme and outspoken. I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    "Riot shaming is getting old", says this gal:

    The riot-shaming is getting old. Burning things down has always had a place historically. I wish ppl on would quit pretending otherwise.— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) April 28, 2015
     
    , @Desiderius

    Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd.
     
    Not as foreign as you think. The college-educated are pro-college-educated, anti-non-college-educated in a similar manner.

    I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.
     
    What is baffling about it? They're in cahoots.
    , @Truth

    On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn’t grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it’s an excuse to riot.
     
    For most, I think it's an excuse to discount shop.
    , @Mike Zwick

    probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd
     
    .


    When white become a minority, political correctness will be the first thing to go. I grew up in a neighborhood where almost every race and culture was represented and I showed me that political correctness was just a way for one group of whites to shame another, holding minorities up as props.
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  29. Pat Casey says:

    Don’t forget these things happen, Steve. Quite worse actually. “British howitzers lobbing high explosive up what had been one of the finest avenues in Europe, Sackville Street, now called O’Connell. On its east side everything was blown up as far up as North Earl Street, on the west side half as much but quite enough. The post office walls stayed rubble for ten years. Dublin was one of the very first cities to experience what post-Nobel chemical science could do. German shelling of Arras and Ypres for two and a half years produced, so Bernard Shaw thought, but laughable results compared to a week’s British achievement in Dublin. One abetment to its thoroughness was the looting of shops including toyshops by locals who started fires, another the rebel practice of firing on the fireman, who then sensibly withdrew and let things burn.” -HK

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  30. Ed says:
    @H2
    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    I've read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we're inching towards something like that.

    I don’t quite get why the country’s most popular black social writer is afraid of a comment board? Everything he writes is automatically and universally praised by the left wing media. Vox for example uses his writings as a guide to cover black issues. Whatever TNC says, Vox says too.

    So what is he afraid of?

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    He's afraid of Steve, for starters (though I suppose he could ban Steve and keep the comments open otherwise).
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  31. Jefferson says:

    I predict that in my lifetime the percentage of Blacks in Baltimore will reach Detroit levels of Blackness. Unlike nearby Washington D.C, Baltimore is not experiencing a Gentrification and getting less Black. Whites are not taking back Baltimore, White flight in Baltimore is permanent.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    White flight in Baltimore is permanent.
     
    The only thing permanent in life, Daniel-San, is impermanence.
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  32. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    In the Atlanta area, a woman was arrested for expressing somewhat similar sentiments with less nuance: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ga-mom-arrested-threating-cops-facebook-post-police-article-1.2203436

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  33. Ed says:
    @Arclight
    Coates explicitly stated in an piece a few months back that he believes systemic white racism is 100% responsible for black people's failings and they bear absolutely no responsibility for any of their shortcomings themselves. When you start from the premise that nothing is your fault and it can completely be attributed to an external force (a tactic my young children employ) there is no reasoning with the person that holds that belief.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term "plunder", an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he's been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He doesn't have an original thought in his head, but because he parrots the party line fairly well and he's black, he gets approving mentions/pats on the head but his fans in the media.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term “plunder”, an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he’s been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He’s blamed his inability to pick up French, and the fact that he didn’t learn it earlier on white racism.

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  34. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @H2
    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    I've read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we're inching towards something like that.

    I’m surprised the Coates’s editor lets him close off comments. Think of all the hits the Atlantic is missing out on.

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    • Replies: @D Flinchum
    You may remember the voter intimidation that occurred at a polling place in Philadelphia in 2008. Short take: 2 members of the New Black Panthers Party stood outside of the polling place dressed in paramilitary garb, one of them carrying a riot stick and saying things like 'Prepare to be ruled by the black man, Cracker!' Bartle Bull, who had gone to Mississippi w/Bobby Kennedy back in the day, said it was as clear a case of voter intimidation as he had ever seen.

    As laws regarding showing ID at polling places began to appear, Coates naturally cried racism. Equally naturally, commenters at the Atlantic brought up the NBP real voter intimidation. Coates informed posters that bringing that subject up in a comment would keep that comment from being posted. The NBP youtube was all over the net so it wasn't a question of did it happen. Coates just didn't have an answer.

    I lost a lot of respect for the Atlantic, which I had subscribed to for decades at that point.
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  35. Bugg says:

    He’s right. “The community” is not prepared to ask who has been in charge in Baltimore forever, and who has been in the White House for 6 years. “The Man” is now black. Ain’t it fun when you despise what you’ve become. We have ladled cradle to grave entitlement and it’s never enough.The underclass has been given the keys to City Hall and the White House and now refuse to grasp it doesn’t change anything unless you change your ways.

    Reparations will be their next move. It has to be opposed.

    Lots of evidence Mr. Gray (and we have yet to see his smiling graduation picture, shockingly; may be he was such a punk there isn’t even that) had a serious accident, was a very successful plaintiff collecting an big injury settlement and had undergone a serious spinal procedure . But instead of healing up, he was out keepin’ it real.

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  36. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @FactsAreImportant

    ... they can offer no rational justification for Gray’s death.
     
    Ta should look up the definition of the word "accident".

    When a criminal resists arrest, he places everyone, including himself in danger, and sometimes unintended, things, or "accidents" if you will, happen.

    Is Ta just pretending to be stupid or is he stupid for real?

    An ex-cop on another forum suspects the cops roughed him up by throwing him in the paddy wagon cuffed, without a seat belt, and speeding up, then violently stepping on the brakes a few times.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I've gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 - No one is disputing yesterday's claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    #2 - If you look at the video of his arrest, it appears that Gray was already paralyzed from the waist down before he was even put in the van.

    I'm sure the PD will still be held responsible for his injuries, but under the circumstances I can't help but feel that there was something suicidal in attempting to sell crack one week after surgery and then to run from the police and struggle with them.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn't going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    As for the article, it is weak. Even if I accept the premise that there's a war going on between the black community and the police, that doesn't provide any excuse for attacking random civilians, setting fire to 140 vehicles (I'm sure they weren't all police cruisers), looting stores, beating up shopkeepers, and so on. The fact that TNC couldn't even bring himself to condemn those criminal acts is a mark against him. Period.
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  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What amazes me is that people aren’t willing to wait for an official version of what actually transpired before they go off burning and looting.

    It’s as if the night Grey passed away or the day Mike Brown was killed, they want the police officer executed by a 10 man firing squad

    There are elaborate processes in place to get to the bottom of what actually happened, and to decide guilt or innocence.

    For example, it’s very clear after multiple autopsies and and much investigation that Darren Wilson was not in the wrong… The witnesses concocted completely false stories about what happened. Even Holder’s DOJ had to admit (grudgingly) that there were no grounds to lay any charges.

    Ta-nishee Cotes, has no more information on what actually happened than I do…yet he’s willing to release the hounds and burn down his own home town.

    If you feel the need to do that, or you feel that is going to be a productive thing to do… OK (I suppose)

    But why can’t you wait till you know what actually happened first? Because a lot of these incidents aren’t as clear as they seem on first glance.

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  38. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anonym
    Maybe if they had enough collective self-control not to offend at 10x the rate of the white population, the police would have some patience. Black lives matter? This is the kind of life lived that would have gotten a white Englishman executed in past centuries. Does society really need another violent drug dealer?

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/28/freddie-gray-had-a-long-criminal-record/

    Two truths:

    1) Police brutality is wrong and should be prosecuted.

    2) Cops aren’t saints, and the more times you interact with them, the more you risk getting hurt or killed.

    TNC seems to grok 1) but not 2).

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  39. MLK says:
    @Arclight
    Coates explicitly stated in an piece a few months back that he believes systemic white racism is 100% responsible for black people's failings and they bear absolutely no responsibility for any of their shortcomings themselves. When you start from the premise that nothing is your fault and it can completely be attributed to an external force (a tactic my young children employ) there is no reasoning with the person that holds that belief.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term "plunder", an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he's been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He doesn't have an original thought in his head, but because he parrots the party line fairly well and he's black, he gets approving mentions/pats on the head but his fans in the media.

    Sure. But it still looks to me like he blew a gasket here.. After all, if he really believes it’s a war, and while I’m no military expert the other side seems to have all the advantages even if slow on the uptake, he should explain why he’s in another city tip-tapping out “We Will Never Surrender” orders while his peeps serve as cannon fodder?

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  40. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ed
    I don't quite get why the country's most popular black social writer is afraid of a comment board? Everything he writes is automatically and universally praised by the left wing media. Vox for example uses his writings as a guide to cover black issues. Whatever TNC says, Vox says too.

    So what is he afraid of?

    He’s afraid of Steve, for starters (though I suppose he could ban Steve and keep the comments open otherwise).

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    • Replies: @24AheadDotCom
    He's afraid of me too: he's banned me twice. He'd have a little less influence if people had linked his name to my post about it and had carried my discussion of him to Twitter etc. But, can't do that, can we?

    When his name comes up on non-TNC articles at The Atlantic, there are usually one or two people other than me pointing out his habit of deleting comments from those who show him wrong and so on.

    In case solar flares cause others to want to do something and they aren't strong enough to cause others to help with my anti-TNC campaign, then one idea is to write to @grahamdavida. Or, look up those who tweet @tanehisicoates and - if they're persuadable - attempt to undercut him to them.
    , @fish
    He's a fraud. There was that so hard?
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  41. D. K. says:
    @The Only Catholic Unionist
    Fresh update from the Fourth Estate. Bloggers doing the work that the MFM won't http://thefourthestate.co/2015/04/breaking-freddie-gray-sued-taxi-company-for-damagesinjuries-allegedly-related-to-car-accident/

    I have read that the late Freddie Gray had been living with his sister, in a housing project in West Baltimore, at the time of his arrest. Yesterday’s story, at the Web site that you cite, showed part of a document for a case involving a Freddie Gray, Jr., with his address given as one north of downtown (a few blocks east of a Safeway that I used to walk to, on occasion, when I lived across from the United States Post Office and Court House Building, downtown, a block west of City Hall). Today’s article, on the other hand, shows part of a document for a case involving a Freddie Gray, with his address given as one in East Baltimore. So, are we dealing, now, with one Freddie Gray, two different Freddie Grays, or, even, three different Freddie Grays?!?

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  42. J.Ross says: • Website

    In this case, we should spread the word that Mr Gray was in a serious car accident and received three spinal surgeries, in other words, the police probably did nothing in terms of brutality.

    What seems to be happening at the higher level here is the cathedral is pushing for totalitarianism and burying real cases of police brutality (which disproportionately targets whites and which disproportionately involves women and minority officers), and hoping to cover or confuse this great leap forward by schilling for phony cases of racial profiling and anti-black shootings. No police brutality case given attention by tribal media has any legitimacy. Even the one case these idiots think they won, that slimeball in Carolina who was shot in the back, had more than asked for it. But keep in mind, this is the same media that think that the second and fourth amendments are rayciss.

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  43. SPMoore8 says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    An ex-cop on another forum suspects the cops roughed him up by throwing him in the paddy wagon cuffed, without a seat belt, and speeding up, then violently stepping on the brakes a few times.

    I’ve gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 – No one is disputing yesterday’s claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    #2 – If you look at the video of his arrest, it appears that Gray was already paralyzed from the waist down before he was even put in the van.

    I’m sure the PD will still be held responsible for his injuries, but under the circumstances I can’t help but feel that there was something suicidal in attempting to sell crack one week after surgery and then to run from the police and struggle with them.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn’t going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    As for the article, it is weak. Even if I accept the premise that there’s a war going on between the black community and the police, that doesn’t provide any excuse for attacking random civilians, setting fire to 140 vehicles (I’m sure they weren’t all police cruisers), looting stores, beating up shopkeepers, and so on. The fact that TNC couldn’t even bring himself to condemn those criminal acts is a mark against him. Period.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    As a followup to my own post, here's a refutation of Gray's surgery in the Baltimore Sun:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

    So now it appears that Gray's neck and back surgery are on the same page with Officer Wilson's fractured orbit.

    However, the video still suggests that Gray sustained his injuries during the arrest, not in the van.
    , @Twinkie

    Even if I accept the premise that there’s a war going on between the black community and the police
     
    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the "white establishment."
    , @Desiderius

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn’t going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.
     
    Of course, with the question then becoming:

    "Why does TNC, of all people, receive the great privilege of being the voice of black America chosen by the (cultural/political/financial*) powers that be?"

    * - again, looking at the advertisements in the publications or the opulence of the campuses.
    , @ben tillman

    I’ve gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 – No one is disputing yesterday’s claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

     

    How? Someone like that needs to be treated more delicately.
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  44. Mr. Anon says:

    “Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community.”

    I can’t help read something in which the word “disrespect” is used as a verb without thinking that the person who wrote it is an idiot.

    What is the infinitive form of disrespect? be disrespectin’?

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  45. Lugash says:

    I’m open to the idea that Freddie Gray was roughed up by the cops. A crushed larynx and (back of?) neck injury seem improbable.

    W.r.t. to the legal payout, the family attorney says it’s from a lead exposure settlement.

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  46. SPMoore8 says:
    @SPMoore8
    I've gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 - No one is disputing yesterday's claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    #2 - If you look at the video of his arrest, it appears that Gray was already paralyzed from the waist down before he was even put in the van.

    I'm sure the PD will still be held responsible for his injuries, but under the circumstances I can't help but feel that there was something suicidal in attempting to sell crack one week after surgery and then to run from the police and struggle with them.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn't going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    As for the article, it is weak. Even if I accept the premise that there's a war going on between the black community and the police, that doesn't provide any excuse for attacking random civilians, setting fire to 140 vehicles (I'm sure they weren't all police cruisers), looting stores, beating up shopkeepers, and so on. The fact that TNC couldn't even bring himself to condemn those criminal acts is a mark against him. Period.

    As a followup to my own post, here’s a refutation of Gray’s surgery in the Baltimore Sun:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html

    So now it appears that Gray’s neck and back surgery are on the same page with Officer Wilson’s fractured orbit.

    However, the video still suggests that Gray sustained his injuries during the arrest, not in the van.

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  47. Twinkie says:
    @SPMoore8
    I've gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 - No one is disputing yesterday's claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    #2 - If you look at the video of his arrest, it appears that Gray was already paralyzed from the waist down before he was even put in the van.

    I'm sure the PD will still be held responsible for his injuries, but under the circumstances I can't help but feel that there was something suicidal in attempting to sell crack one week after surgery and then to run from the police and struggle with them.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn't going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    As for the article, it is weak. Even if I accept the premise that there's a war going on between the black community and the police, that doesn't provide any excuse for attacking random civilians, setting fire to 140 vehicles (I'm sure they weren't all police cruisers), looting stores, beating up shopkeepers, and so on. The fact that TNC couldn't even bring himself to condemn those criminal acts is a mark against him. Period.

    Even if I accept the premise that there’s a war going on between the black community and the police

    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the “white establishment.”

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Thanks for bringing that up. If we extend the war analogy, then the lootings, car fires, arson, and purse snatchings comprise a form of collective punishment, forbidden by Fourth Geneva (1949) Article 33.

    So that would make them war criminals if not terrorists. I'm down with that.

    It should also be noted that the looters in Baltimore (and, apparently, also in Ferguson) showed a preference for buildings not owned by blacks. That means the various stores and shops -- owned by Asians, Arabs, Indians, etc. -- were singled out for violence based on the race or ethnicity of the store owners. That means the looting was a hate crime, even by domestic US law.
    , @Truth

    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the “white establishment.”
     
    And you have admitted to spending so much time around black people as to know what they think.
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  48. The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don’t think they’re better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they’re better than them.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    You are full of beans, 'BostonBlackie'! The new senior center that was burned down was located in East Baltimore. The music store that was looted, including expensive instruments (on which the looters likely were not proficient), is located north of downtown, far from West Baltimore. Damage was done well outside of West Baltimore.

    As for police brutality, Whites are overrepresented among those who are killed (justly or unjustly, as any individual case might be), when compared to the amounts of crime that Whites and Blacks commit, respectively. If the issue were simply one of police brutality per se, the news media would not be picking (alleged) Black victims, almost exclusively, to cover and promote.

    The most telling point is that when Blacks protest, or eventually riot, it is almost always in support of a Black man who turns out to be a violent felon-- including convicted cop killers! If I were Black, that might make sense to me-- since, by definition, I would have a Black brain. I cannot help but wondering, however, whether those many Blacks who are intelligent, well-educated, gainfully employed, and law-abiding are not just a tad embarrassed by the Black community's embrace of its worse, if not worst, elements as supposed heroes and, even, as "civil rights icons" to be admired, if not, indeed, emulated.

    , @unit472
    Your comments seem reasonable and I think we all can agree police, on occasion, use excess force. The real problem is your comments are based on information derived from news media not from reality. Whites and blacks both have alcohol fueled events that get out of control and whites, for reasons of being a numerically larger population, particularly in college towns or being a larger proportion of the attendees at sporting events, may even be responsible for more of this kind of behavior. If it is stupid, destructive and regrettable it isn't driven by anything other than too much alcohol consumption. There is no long term economic or political damage done.

    I would also question your belief that blacks 'only riot' in response to police brutality. That's what the media would have the public believe. The reality is that 'flash mobs' are a growing problem and while not classified as 'riots' they are, in fact, just that though on a small scale and the purpose is not to 'protest' police misconduct but to steal. I could also cite a personal experience of mine some years ago when San Francisco gays went on a rampage upon the sentencing of Dan White, accused of assassinating SF Mayor George Moscone and a homosexual city supervisor Harvey Milk. Black youths took advantage of the 'rioting' around City Hall to loot stores on Market St. I saw it and was offered stolen goods 'cheap'. We both know those young blacks were not looting stores over the 'injustice' of the lenient sentence given to Dan White for those murders.

    , @Jack Hanson
    Keene, MA was out of town blacks showing up and rioting.

    Nice try.
    , @D. K.
    P.S. I just saw the co-owner of Mick O'Shea's Irish Pub being interviewed on the news about her business being trashed by the looters. That establishment is located a few blocks from where I used to live, and I passed by it countless times, usually while coming and going to the Enoch Pratt Free Library, quite nearby. It is decidedly not in West Baltimore.
    , @G Pinfold
    "Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage."

    Indeed. See Sailer's series of posts on the Holder Farewell Tour and the Eye of Sauron.
    , @Kylie

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police.
     
    Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.


    http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/full_1000/public/field/image/BALTIMORE_12582361.JPG?itok=Gh35v5hc
    , @FactsAreImportant

    Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis.
     



    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police.
     
    Wrong.

    Blacks are not disproportionately killed by police.

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks. (This is from FBI data. For a good summary, see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3180/what-s-the-racial-breakdown-of-people-killed-by-cops.)
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  49. Kylie says:
    @C. Van Carter
    Coates consistently does violence to the English language.

    Coates consistently does violence to the English language.

    No surprise there. His people consistently do violence to the civilization that produced the English language.

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  50. Hubbub says:
    @MLK

    Wisdom isn’t the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community.
     

    Who disses whom? What else could possibly matter?
     
    Coates apparently views Baltimore's black residents and its police as prison inmates and guards, respectively. He is propounding the rules of Prison Culture.

    I guess you could say that falls under the rubric of Keeping it Real.

    Power to you, MLK. You actually understood that bit of tripe?

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  51. Pat Casey says:

    u can run that if you were wondering

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  52. SPMoore8 says:
    @Twinkie

    Even if I accept the premise that there’s a war going on between the black community and the police
     
    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the "white establishment."

    Thanks for bringing that up. If we extend the war analogy, then the lootings, car fires, arson, and purse snatchings comprise a form of collective punishment, forbidden by Fourth Geneva (1949) Article 33.

    So that would make them war criminals if not terrorists. I’m down with that.

    It should also be noted that the looters in Baltimore (and, apparently, also in Ferguson) showed a preference for buildings not owned by blacks. That means the various stores and shops — owned by Asians, Arabs, Indians, etc. — were singled out for violence based on the race or ethnicity of the store owners. That means the looting was a hate crime, even by domestic US law.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    So that would make them war criminals if not terrorists. I’m down with that.
     
    Yes, this is American intifada.

    It should also be noted that the looters in Baltimore (and, apparently, also in Ferguson) showed a preference for buildings not owned by blacks.
     
    Do we have good data on this/a solid source? Lot's of folks like to play dumb about why they're "burning down their own neighborhoods."
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  53. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Massimo Heitor
    The police should keep stats on the aggressions of the rioters: how many rocks were thrown etc. Society needs to do a better job of shaming this behavior at a deeper level. Even in 2015, there is the rare incident of genuine white on black/other hate crimes, but society is extremely successful at deeply shaming such actions where even the far right types bend over backwards to distance themselves from it. This same kind of shame and distancing should work both ways. I understand most protesters didn't engage in violent rioting, but that logic is silly. Obama actively shames America over black slavery yet most Americans, even most southerners never owned slaves or participated in the slave trade. Obama still repeatedly generalizes the guilt and shame.

    If treatment of blacks and racism is so terrible, why are the voluntary migration patterns of black people not consistent with this? We see blacks fleeing Africa in large numbers, and fleeing places like Detroit and a small number of blacks are moving away from Baltimore, but they seem to be choosing places like recently white majority places like Ferguson, and of course Europe.

    I am personally married into the black American underclass, and through my wife, I know what a lot of blacks think on stuff like this. On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn't grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it's an excuse to riot. Lots of blacks are genuinely embarrassed by this behavior. And some avoid discussing it or thinking about it, because there isn't really a happy way to view this situation. They would still be horrified by what Steve Sailer says or what I think. Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd. Coates is one of the more extreme and outspoken. I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.

    “Riot shaming is getting old”, says this gal:

    The riot-shaming is getting old. Burning things down has always had a place historically. I wish ppl on would quit pretending otherwise.— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) April 28, 2015

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    That's incitement to violence, sedition. Liberals have raged about half-witted Tea Partiers waxing nostalgic about "2nd Amendment Solutions".

    Quite odd to use the "slut-shaming" "fat-shaming" term that way. Is rioting feminine now?
    , @SPMoore8
    Riot shaming, rape shaming, crime shaming ...... time for the War on Shame.
    , @MLK
    Hah! I love seeing these sorts of middle school social studies class type comments.

    I clicked the link, and it only got better. She got a "Thank you!" tweet from "Professor Al Anon
    @PalestinaSummer"

    Do those crazy Palestinians ever choose the winning side?
    , @Bert
    Well, she's right about that. Of course, historically burning things down was typically followed by beatings and beheadings, depending on the ruler's mood.
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  54. Maj. Kong says:
    @Dew
    Coates can't blame an overwhelming white police force anymore so he's more race neutral in this article. Can't make a case for reparations this time (not that the first was any good).

    Racism is like witchcraft, you only need “spectral evidence” or as we say now “invisible knapsacks”.

    All TNC needs is pictures of “highways to the suburbs” (infamously said by 0bama), and he’ll blame black poverty and dysfunction on that. The facts, to us, do not matter to him. All that matters is that YT must pay.

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  55. Maj. Kong says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    "Riot shaming is getting old", says this gal:

    The riot-shaming is getting old. Burning things down has always had a place historically. I wish ppl on would quit pretending otherwise.— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) April 28, 2015
     

    That’s incitement to violence, sedition. Liberals have raged about half-witted Tea Partiers waxing nostalgic about “2nd Amendment Solutions”.

    Quite odd to use the “slut-shaming” “fat-shaming” term that way. Is rioting feminine now?

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Who invented Pussy Riot?
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  56. @Massimo Heitor
    The police should keep stats on the aggressions of the rioters: how many rocks were thrown etc. Society needs to do a better job of shaming this behavior at a deeper level. Even in 2015, there is the rare incident of genuine white on black/other hate crimes, but society is extremely successful at deeply shaming such actions where even the far right types bend over backwards to distance themselves from it. This same kind of shame and distancing should work both ways. I understand most protesters didn't engage in violent rioting, but that logic is silly. Obama actively shames America over black slavery yet most Americans, even most southerners never owned slaves or participated in the slave trade. Obama still repeatedly generalizes the guilt and shame.

    If treatment of blacks and racism is so terrible, why are the voluntary migration patterns of black people not consistent with this? We see blacks fleeing Africa in large numbers, and fleeing places like Detroit and a small number of blacks are moving away from Baltimore, but they seem to be choosing places like recently white majority places like Ferguson, and of course Europe.

    I am personally married into the black American underclass, and through my wife, I know what a lot of blacks think on stuff like this. On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn't grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it's an excuse to riot. Lots of blacks are genuinely embarrassed by this behavior. And some avoid discussing it or thinking about it, because there isn't really a happy way to view this situation. They would still be horrified by what Steve Sailer says or what I think. Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd. Coates is one of the more extreme and outspoken. I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.

    Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd.

    Not as foreign as you think. The college-educated are pro-college-educated, anti-non-college-educated in a similar manner.

    I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.

    What is baffling about it? They’re in cahoots.

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  57. @SPMoore8
    Thanks for bringing that up. If we extend the war analogy, then the lootings, car fires, arson, and purse snatchings comprise a form of collective punishment, forbidden by Fourth Geneva (1949) Article 33.

    So that would make them war criminals if not terrorists. I'm down with that.

    It should also be noted that the looters in Baltimore (and, apparently, also in Ferguson) showed a preference for buildings not owned by blacks. That means the various stores and shops -- owned by Asians, Arabs, Indians, etc. -- were singled out for violence based on the race or ethnicity of the store owners. That means the looting was a hate crime, even by domestic US law.

    So that would make them war criminals if not terrorists. I’m down with that.

    Yes, this is American intifada.

    It should also be noted that the looters in Baltimore (and, apparently, also in Ferguson) showed a preference for buildings not owned by blacks.

    Do we have good data on this/a solid source? Lot’s of folks like to play dumb about why they’re “burning down their own neighborhoods.”

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    • Replies: @Jahangir

    Then he described how he and some Bloods had stood in front of black-owned stores to protect them from looting or vandalism. He said they had made sure no black children, or reporters, were hit by rioters. They pointed them toward Chinese- and Arab-owned stores. Charles said Mr. Gray had brought gangs together.
     
    That's from the New York Times story about "gangs" lol.
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  58. SPMoore8 says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    "Riot shaming is getting old", says this gal:

    The riot-shaming is getting old. Burning things down has always had a place historically. I wish ppl on would quit pretending otherwise.— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) April 28, 2015
     

    Riot shaming, rape shaming, crime shaming …… time for the War on Shame.

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    • Replies: @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    Yes, they truly have no shame and are longing for a brilliant post-shame future.
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  59. D. K. says:
    @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    You are full of beans, ‘BostonBlackie’! The new senior center that was burned down was located in East Baltimore. The music store that was looted, including expensive instruments (on which the looters likely were not proficient), is located north of downtown, far from West Baltimore. Damage was done well outside of West Baltimore.

    As for police brutality, Whites are overrepresented among those who are killed (justly or unjustly, as any individual case might be), when compared to the amounts of crime that Whites and Blacks commit, respectively. If the issue were simply one of police brutality per se, the news media would not be picking (alleged) Black victims, almost exclusively, to cover and promote.

    The most telling point is that when Blacks protest, or eventually riot, it is almost always in support of a Black man who turns out to be a violent felon– including convicted cop killers! If I were Black, that might make sense to me– since, by definition, I would have a Black brain. I cannot help but wondering, however, whether those many Blacks who are intelligent, well-educated, gainfully employed, and law-abiding are not just a tad embarrassed by the Black community’s embrace of its worse, if not worst, elements as supposed heroes and, even, as “civil rights icons” to be admired, if not, indeed, emulated.

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  60. When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con.

    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.

    Likewise when Michael Brown attacked police officer Darren Wilson brutally, Wilson had a right to defend himself.

    Nobody should have expected either Zimmerman or Wilson to begin to exercise non-violence halfway through either of those fights.

    Neither Martin nor Brown, as the aggressors, should be able to call “time out” when their victims fight back.

    When non-violence is preached by Negroes while they dole out heaps of violence to other races, then that preaching reveals itself to be a con.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.
     
    You've seen video?
    , @Merema
    Doesn't Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?
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  61. Every time I see someone with a hyphenated name, I think pretentious libtard.

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  62. unit472 says:
    @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    Your comments seem reasonable and I think we all can agree police, on occasion, use excess force. The real problem is your comments are based on information derived from news media not from reality. Whites and blacks both have alcohol fueled events that get out of control and whites, for reasons of being a numerically larger population, particularly in college towns or being a larger proportion of the attendees at sporting events, may even be responsible for more of this kind of behavior. If it is stupid, destructive and regrettable it isn’t driven by anything other than too much alcohol consumption. There is no long term economic or political damage done.

    I would also question your belief that blacks ‘only riot’ in response to police brutality. That’s what the media would have the public believe. The reality is that ‘flash mobs’ are a growing problem and while not classified as ‘riots’ they are, in fact, just that though on a small scale and the purpose is not to ‘protest’ police misconduct but to steal. I could also cite a personal experience of mine some years ago when San Francisco gays went on a rampage upon the sentencing of Dan White, accused of assassinating SF Mayor George Moscone and a homosexual city supervisor Harvey Milk. Black youths took advantage of the ‘rioting’ around City Hall to loot stores on Market St. I saw it and was offered stolen goods ‘cheap’. We both know those young blacks were not looting stores over the ‘injustice’ of the lenient sentence given to Dan White for those murders.

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  63. MLK says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    "Riot shaming is getting old", says this gal:

    The riot-shaming is getting old. Burning things down has always had a place historically. I wish ppl on would quit pretending otherwise.— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) April 28, 2015
     

    Hah! I love seeing these sorts of middle school social studies class type comments.

    I clicked the link, and it only got better. She got a “Thank you!” tweet from “Professor Al Anon
    @PalestinaSummer”

    Do those crazy Palestinians ever choose the winning side?

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  64. @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    Keene, MA was out of town blacks showing up and rioting.

    Nice try.

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  65. D. K. says:
    @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    P.S. I just saw the co-owner of Mick O’Shea’s Irish Pub being interviewed on the news about her business being trashed by the looters. That establishment is located a few blocks from where I used to live, and I passed by it countless times, usually while coming and going to the Enoch Pratt Free Library, quite nearby. It is decidedly not in West Baltimore.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Not to mention the three pubs-restaurants across the street from Camden Yards which were also trashed and which was the sight of the infamous purse snatch attempt. Not West Baltimore.
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  66. @Dave Pinsen
    He's afraid of Steve, for starters (though I suppose he could ban Steve and keep the comments open otherwise).

    He’s afraid of me too: he’s banned me twice. He’d have a little less influence if people had linked his name to my post about it and had carried my discussion of him to Twitter etc. But, can’t do that, can we?

    When his name comes up on non-TNC articles at The Atlantic, there are usually one or two people other than me pointing out his habit of deleting comments from those who show him wrong and so on.

    In case solar flares cause others to want to do something and they aren’t strong enough to cause others to help with my anti-TNC campaign, then one idea is to write to @grahamdavida. Or, look up those who tweet @tanehisicoates and – if they’re persuadable – attempt to undercut him to them.

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  67. @SPMoore8
    I've gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 - No one is disputing yesterday's claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    #2 - If you look at the video of his arrest, it appears that Gray was already paralyzed from the waist down before he was even put in the van.

    I'm sure the PD will still be held responsible for his injuries, but under the circumstances I can't help but feel that there was something suicidal in attempting to sell crack one week after surgery and then to run from the police and struggle with them.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn't going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    As for the article, it is weak. Even if I accept the premise that there's a war going on between the black community and the police, that doesn't provide any excuse for attacking random civilians, setting fire to 140 vehicles (I'm sure they weren't all police cruisers), looting stores, beating up shopkeepers, and so on. The fact that TNC couldn't even bring himself to condemn those criminal acts is a mark against him. Period.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn’t going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    Of course, with the question then becoming:

    “Why does TNC, of all people, receive the great privilege of being the voice of black America chosen by the (cultural/political/financial*) powers that be?”

    * – again, looking at the advertisements in the publications or the opulence of the campuses.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    My answer is that there was a (content of character) broad consensus on race that was betrayed by those powers roughly 20 years ago with critical race theory on their campuses and that we're now seeing visited upon us the fruits of that betrayal.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Because Spike Lee is busy right now.
    , @SPMoore8
    Actually, I think he's a very good prose stylist. His main problem is that he is a college dropout and has never really built up the education in terms of facts, concepts, etc. that he needs to go above the vague generalities one usually finds in his articles (his reparations article was particularly bad in that respect.)

    Why is he anointed? Because he's a black guy who can write long sonorous periods that sound deep. In fact, he's probably the best writer in the current crop of African American writers; certainly better than his heartthrob, Melissa Harris-Perry, who is basically just a media personality.
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  68. @Jefferson
    The term thug is the new N word now
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/baltimore-riots-thug-n-word/

    So does this mean the word thug will now be considered hate speech on SWPL college campuses like UC Berkeley?

    Hate creep yo.

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  69. @Desiderius

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn’t going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.
     
    Of course, with the question then becoming:

    "Why does TNC, of all people, receive the great privilege of being the voice of black America chosen by the (cultural/political/financial*) powers that be?"

    * - again, looking at the advertisements in the publications or the opulence of the campuses.

    My answer is that there was a (content of character) broad consensus on race that was betrayed by those powers roughly 20 years ago with critical race theory on their campuses and that we’re now seeing visited upon us the fruits of that betrayal.

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  70. SPMoore8 says:
    @D. K.
    P.S. I just saw the co-owner of Mick O'Shea's Irish Pub being interviewed on the news about her business being trashed by the looters. That establishment is located a few blocks from where I used to live, and I passed by it countless times, usually while coming and going to the Enoch Pratt Free Library, quite nearby. It is decidedly not in West Baltimore.

    Not to mention the three pubs-restaurants across the street from Camden Yards which were also trashed and which was the sight of the infamous purse snatch attempt. Not West Baltimore.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    When I first moved to Baltimore, in early 2009, I lived in an apartment in Ridgleys Delight, a couple of blocks west of Camden Yards, in the very corner of downtown. My bedroom windows looked out over South Martin Luther King Drive-- which was the dividing point from West Baltimore. I walked through West Baltimore many times-- always very warily, and especially so at night! Camden Yards is just a couple of minutes' walk from West Baltimore. That picture of the man trying to avoid having his purse stolen by a gang of feral young women (the picture with the chair visible in mid-flight!) was taken in front of a neighborhood establishment that I used to walk by, many times per week, during those four months when I lived in that apartment.
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  71. Ragno says:

    Instant remedy to this entire bizarro-world nonsense: a complete police moratorium on responding to calls from the ghetto/inner city/Darktown/jungle/whatever we’re now allowed to call the great uninhabitable swaths of urban hellhole that 50+ years of social engineering – and a few trillion dollars – have bought us.

    Forget six months or a year: 60 days without Officer Whitey to impose what little order law enforcement can among people to whom racism is far far worse than some triflin’ old murder could ever be, and that “community” TNC claims to speak for will be begging on bended knee for the cops to come back…..if just to clear most of the corpses off the street so that the drug sales can continue unimpeded.

    Instant remedy, that is, to the public bloodbath. Ain’t no remedies at all for Baltimore the American city. While Generation Skittles, under General Coates’ command, was waging war these past few days, Baltimore turned into Detroit, permanently. The tourism and convention business they depend on like oxygen is over. Whatever happens next in American race relations – hint: it won’t be good – Baltimore the once-major American city is finished, kaput, dead as vaudeville – and even less likely to return.

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  72. @Arclight
    Coates explicitly stated in an piece a few months back that he believes systemic white racism is 100% responsible for black people's failings and they bear absolutely no responsibility for any of their shortcomings themselves. When you start from the premise that nothing is your fault and it can completely be attributed to an external force (a tactic my young children employ) there is no reasoning with the person that holds that belief.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term "plunder", an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he's been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He doesn't have an original thought in his head, but because he parrots the party line fairly well and he's black, he gets approving mentions/pats on the head but his fans in the media.

    This is an interesting point. If he blames whitey so much, why is he bothering to learn a white based language? Why not learn Swahili or Ugandan? Or Egyptian since everyone knows who built the pyramids and the Sphinx.

    But THC is basically a younger brother version of Obama. Same message, the historic American nation is/was racist, all whites are racists, etc. but its a little less nuanced for national consumption.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    But THC is basically a younger brother version of Obama.
    --
    Come again? TNC is the issue of the Baltimore slums. His background is pretty bog standard for a black man. Obama is the issue of Honolulu's haolie society and his knowledge of black America prior to age 20 consisted of chatting with an oddball like Frank Marshall Davis and watching episodes of Soul Train.
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  73. @Desiderius

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn’t going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.
     
    Of course, with the question then becoming:

    "Why does TNC, of all people, receive the great privilege of being the voice of black America chosen by the (cultural/political/financial*) powers that be?"

    * - again, looking at the advertisements in the publications or the opulence of the campuses.

    Because Spike Lee is busy right now.

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  74. asdf says:

    “When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. ”

    Devil’s advocate – Ta Nehisi is aggrieved by what he believes to be selective, unfair law enforcement. He doesn’t actually *recommend* burning and looting.

    Other take – THC can’t call an arsonist an arsonist, no matter what. Not right now.

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  75. Tex says:

    TNC talks awfully tough for a guy who isn’t facing tear gas and rubber bullets. I expect the rioters in Baltimore might quit somewhat short of achieving full social justice. A full shopping cart of goods will no doubt suffice for many.

    I think ’15 is shaping up top look a lot like ’67. LBJ’s commission blamed the riots on racism, naturally. But note that American voters put Nixon in office shortly thereafter. Meanwhile, we’re learning that apparently “thug” is racist. So I guess us whiteys will have to refer to Tupac’s old label as T-word Life Records.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    There were 200 riots in 1967, including one in Detroit which ran on for nine days and during which 42 people were killed. I do not think we're going to see a recapitulation of 1967.
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  76. SPMoore8 says:
    @Desiderius

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn’t going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.
     
    Of course, with the question then becoming:

    "Why does TNC, of all people, receive the great privilege of being the voice of black America chosen by the (cultural/political/financial*) powers that be?"

    * - again, looking at the advertisements in the publications or the opulence of the campuses.

    Actually, I think he’s a very good prose stylist. His main problem is that he is a college dropout and has never really built up the education in terms of facts, concepts, etc. that he needs to go above the vague generalities one usually finds in his articles (his reparations article was particularly bad in that respect.)

    Why is he anointed? Because he’s a black guy who can write long sonorous periods that sound deep. In fact, he’s probably the best writer in the current crop of African American writers; certainly better than his heartthrob, Melissa Harris-Perry, who is basically just a media personality.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Melissa Harris is a lapsed professor and was at one time a producer of academic research on public opinion formation in black populations. She was likely not an engaging writer, but she was tackling a subject that could use some serious explication. She was very misplaced in academe, however, ensconced at a tony research university rather than an ordinary state institution to which she might have been best adapted. At one time, she was also a fairly congenial person for public consumption, not a political sectary at all.
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  77. G Pinfold says:
    @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    “Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.”

    Indeed. See Sailer’s series of posts on the Holder Farewell Tour and the Eye of Sauron.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    “Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.”
     
    I could say that that "something" is the mass media, and that would be true to the extent they're actually acting on "anger and rage". But the Left creates freedom for aggression, and as that seven-year-old boy said a few years ago, after he stole a car for joy ride, "It's fun to do bad things":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcqOgnQyXp4
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  78. Lara says:

    I’m guessing he wrote this while he was tucked away all safe and sound somewhere.

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  79. Bert says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    "Riot shaming is getting old", says this gal:

    The riot-shaming is getting old. Burning things down has always had a place historically. I wish ppl on would quit pretending otherwise.— Rania Khalek (@RaniaKhalek) April 28, 2015
     

    Well, she’s right about that. Of course, historically burning things down was typically followed by beatings and beheadings, depending on the ruler’s mood.

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  80. Kylie says:
    @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police.

    Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.
     
    Now tell me you wouldn't be a little traumatized by that.
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  81. slumber_j says:
    @Lackawanna
    Fleeing Baltimore: The Documentary

    Former Baltimore City residents explain why they fled the City for the safety of the surrounding counties.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccjMjqXEMxw

    That video is great. Thanks for posting it.

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  82. D. K. says:
    @SPMoore8
    Not to mention the three pubs-restaurants across the street from Camden Yards which were also trashed and which was the sight of the infamous purse snatch attempt. Not West Baltimore.

    When I first moved to Baltimore, in early 2009, I lived in an apartment in Ridgleys Delight, a couple of blocks west of Camden Yards, in the very corner of downtown. My bedroom windows looked out over South Martin Luther King Drive– which was the dividing point from West Baltimore. I walked through West Baltimore many times– always very warily, and especially so at night! Camden Yards is just a couple of minutes’ walk from West Baltimore. That picture of the man trying to avoid having his purse stolen by a gang of feral young women (the picture with the chair visible in mid-flight!) was taken in front of a neighborhood establishment that I used to walk by, many times per week, during those four months when I lived in that apartment.

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  83. @H2
    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    I've read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we're inching towards something like that.

    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    It’s a good thing, too, because Coates bans people left and right. Otherwise, The Atlantic is much more tolerant of intelligence and conservative perspectives than is a rag like National Review.

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  84. @David
    I like that fact that he laments, "people... are not prepared to answer these questions" while the Atlantic allows no comments. I can answer the question: blacks interact more often with the police and they interact more violently. So they end up dead at the hands of the police more often. You're welcome, TC.

    You know, once his incandescent enfant terrible phase is done, we'll get to read about how his humanity overcame his righteous hate and allowed him to love even Whitey. Rather than angry, he'll just be sad about how white people failed his people.

    I like that fact that he laments, “people… are not prepared to answer these questions” while the Atlantic allows no comments. I can answer the question: blacks interact more often with the police and they interact more violently. So they end up dead at the hands of the police more often. You’re welcome, TC.

    More often in absolute terms, but once you account for those variables, they actually end up dead at the hands of police less often.

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  85. @Arclight
    Coates explicitly stated in an piece a few months back that he believes systemic white racism is 100% responsible for black people's failings and they bear absolutely no responsibility for any of their shortcomings themselves. When you start from the premise that nothing is your fault and it can completely be attributed to an external force (a tactic my young children employ) there is no reasoning with the person that holds that belief.

    Having read his stuff at The Atlantic for years, most of his pieces consist of some mention of white racism, the term "plunder", an anecdote about some racial wrong that was committed in the 19th century or perhaps as recently as the 1920s, and possibly the mention that he's been to France or is in the process of learning French.

    He doesn't have an original thought in his head, but because he parrots the party line fairly well and he's black, he gets approving mentions/pats on the head but his fans in the media.

    Coates is the same kind of mascot that Malcolm Little disdained himself for being when he was elected student body (or senior class?) president at his mostly White high school. Of course, Malcolm X probably had 20 or 30 IQ points on Two-Digit Coates, so Coates’s case is much more patronizingly pathetic.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    Coates is the same kind of mascot that Malcolm Little disdained himself for being when he was elected student body (or senior class?) president at his mostly White high school. Of course, Malcolm X probably had 20 or 30 IQ points on Two-Digit Coates, so Coates’s case is much more patronizingly pathetic.
     
    Malcom X was on the ball and was pretty bright. When I see a photo of Coate's and read his material, I don't see any high grade intelligence. The guy looks like he should be loading trucks at Macy's.
    , @Art Deco
    He attended Howard University, not one of the black colleges operated by the State of Maryland. If he really was not college material, he'd have been at a ruin like Morgan State or Coppin State, not at Howard.
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  86. Annie says:
    @Anonym
    Maybe if they had enough collective self-control not to offend at 10x the rate of the white population, the police would have some patience. Black lives matter? This is the kind of life lived that would have gotten a white Englishman executed in past centuries. Does society really need another violent drug dealer?

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/28/freddie-gray-had-a-long-criminal-record/

    Maybe if they had enough collective self-control not to offend at 10x the rate of the white population, the police would have some patience. Black lives matter? This is the kind of life lived that would have gotten a white Englishman executed in past centuries. Does society really need another violent drug dealer?

    And maybe that is why we have so few such Englishmen, but have an African continent spilling over with them.

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  87. pinto says:
    @MLK
    I don't read Coates. So I am perfectly prepared for one you to tell me this is par for the course for him. However, it strikes me he's too close to this, and that did anything but help clarifying his thinking:

    The citizens who live in West Baltimore, where the rioting began, intuitively understand this. I grew up across the street from Mondawmin Mall, where today’s riots began. My mother was raised in the same housing project, Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray was killed.
     

    My mother was raised in the same housing project, Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray was killed.

    Yeah, he is emotionally close, but geographically far. I wonder how white Coates’s neighborhood is, hmm?

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I think he lives in Harlem, so, probably not that white, but gentrifying.
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  88. @G Pinfold
    "Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage."

    Indeed. See Sailer's series of posts on the Holder Farewell Tour and the Eye of Sauron.

    “Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.”

    I could say that that “something” is the mass media, and that would be true to the extent they’re actually acting on “anger and rage”. But the Left creates freedom for aggression, and as that seven-year-old boy said a few years ago, after he stole a car for joy ride, “It’s fun to do bad things”:

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  89. Jahangir says:
    @Desiderius

    So that would make them war criminals if not terrorists. I’m down with that.
     
    Yes, this is American intifada.

    It should also be noted that the looters in Baltimore (and, apparently, also in Ferguson) showed a preference for buildings not owned by blacks.
     
    Do we have good data on this/a solid source? Lot's of folks like to play dumb about why they're "burning down their own neighborhoods."

    Then he described how he and some Bloods had stood in front of black-owned stores to protect them from looting or vandalism. He said they had made sure no black children, or reporters, were hit by rioters. They pointed them toward Chinese- and Arab-owned stores. Charles said Mr. Gray had brought gangs together.

    That’s from the New York Times story about “gangs” lol.

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  90. @advancedatheist
    Frankly I'd like to see the rioters help themselves to some cars in Baltimore and make the 40 mile road trip to D.C. to show some noncompliance in the nation's capital.

    Frankly I’d like to see the rioters help themselves to some cars in Baltimore and make the 40 mile road trip to D.C. to show some noncompliance in the nation’s capital.

    I have heard this expressed by many others. If Freddie had died while in the hands of the D.C. police, the story would not have seen the light of day. Only the immediate family would know of his death. The story would die on an editor’s desk.

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  91. @Jefferson
    The term thug is the new N word now
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/29/us/baltimore-riots-thug-n-word/

    So does this mean the word thug will now be considered hate speech on SWPL college campuses like UC Berkeley?

    At the rate we’re losing acceptable expressions for describing violent Black criminals, soon we’ll be down to only “Perfect Angel” and “Gentle Giant.”

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    • Replies: @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    “Perfect Angel” and “Gentle Giant.”

    Much like the asthmatic Eric Garner with the weak heart,
    now we get the "Delicate Dealer" ....

    Precious and fragile. Please handle with extreme care!

    So when they sell poison to black brothers, they look the other way.
    Maybe occupying forces should withdraw to allow local autonomy. They'll choose as much law and order as they want. Let the locals decide how much their own innocents, children, senior citizens should suffer in terror of thugs.

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  92. @SPMoore8
    I've gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 - No one is disputing yesterday's claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    #2 - If you look at the video of his arrest, it appears that Gray was already paralyzed from the waist down before he was even put in the van.

    I'm sure the PD will still be held responsible for his injuries, but under the circumstances I can't help but feel that there was something suicidal in attempting to sell crack one week after surgery and then to run from the police and struggle with them.

    As for TNC, I get the feeling he isn't going to write anything to contradict his father, an old school Panther, or his homies in Baltimore. I mean, I assume he still goes home for the holidays.

    As for the article, it is weak. Even if I accept the premise that there's a war going on between the black community and the police, that doesn't provide any excuse for attacking random civilians, setting fire to 140 vehicles (I'm sure they weren't all police cruisers), looting stores, beating up shopkeepers, and so on. The fact that TNC couldn't even bring himself to condemn those criminal acts is a mark against him. Period.

    I’ve gone out of the way to defend black guys who get killed by the police, but not this time.

    #1 – No one is disputing yesterday’s claim that Gray had extensive back and neck surgery the week before his arrest. That is clearly relevant.

    How? Someone like that needs to be treated more delicately.

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  93. @Pat Gilligan
    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn't know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don't think they're better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they're better than them.

    Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police.

    Wrong.

    Blacks are not disproportionately killed by police.

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks. (This is from FBI data. For a good summary, see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3180/what-s-the-racial-breakdown-of-people-killed-by-cops.)

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    • Replies: @Truth

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks
     
    .

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.
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  94. @H2
    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    I've read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we're inching towards something like that.

    IIRC, the villain is a mulatto politician under the control of white carpetbaggers.

    And no, I didn’t think about Obama until after I typed that.

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  95. whorefinder says: • Website

    The black rationalization hamster—the one that refuses to blame blacks for anything they do—is on par now with the female one.

    The only thing such hamsters do allow self-group-blame for is those who blame the self-group. In other words, the only blacks that blacks will criticize are those blacks in favor of civilization (Sowell, Thomas, Keys, Cosby) just as the only women feminists will allow criticism of are those who criticize women/fail to toe the feminazi line (Palin, Coulter, Schafly, etc.).

    This is the real reason the black community never gets out the ghetto.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    " just as the only women feminists will allow criticism of are those who criticize women/fail to toe the feminazi line (Palin, Coulter, Schafly, etc.)."

    The SWPL Feminazis were awfully quite when news broke out that Hussein Obama's sons committed a gang rape against a drunk woman who was passed out in Panama City Beach, Florida.

    Also not a word from the SWPL Feminazi community when Hussein Obama's sons gang raped a 12 year old Mexican girl in Texas.

    SWPL Feminazis are only worried about non existent blond haired frat boys committing fake non existent gang rapes.
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  96. fish says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    He's afraid of Steve, for starters (though I suppose he could ban Steve and keep the comments open otherwise).

    He’s a fraud. There was that so hard?

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  97. Jefferson says:
    @whorefinder
    The black rationalization hamster---the one that refuses to blame blacks for anything they do---is on par now with the female one.

    The only thing such hamsters do allow self-group-blame for is those who blame the self-group. In other words, the only blacks that blacks will criticize are those blacks in favor of civilization (Sowell, Thomas, Keys, Cosby) just as the only women feminists will allow criticism of are those who criticize women/fail to toe the feminazi line (Palin, Coulter, Schafly, etc.).

    This is the real reason the black community never gets out the ghetto.

    ” just as the only women feminists will allow criticism of are those who criticize women/fail to toe the feminazi line (Palin, Coulter, Schafly, etc.).”

    The SWPL Feminazis were awfully quite when news broke out that Hussein Obama’s sons committed a gang rape against a drunk woman who was passed out in Panama City Beach, Florida.

    Also not a word from the SWPL Feminazi community when Hussein Obama’s sons gang raped a 12 year old Mexican girl in Texas.

    SWPL Feminazis are only worried about non existent blond haired frat boys committing fake non existent gang rapes.

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  98. Gato de la Biblioteca [AKA "Icepick"] says:

    “This is why we can’t have nice things.”

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  99. Svigor says:

    The response of white people to the unrest in Baltimore was/is disproportionate. The rioting and looting was limited to a small section of West Baltimore. A young African-American male had his spine severed while he was in police custody. Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis. While the reaction over the past week was about Freddie Gray, it was more about police brutality. People get fired up by what is personal to them. Most of the rioters didn’t know Freddie Gray personally so there must be something else which fuels their anger and rage.

    An all-white crowd rioted in Keene, New Hampshire during a pumpkin festival. SWAT teams from Massachusetts where brought in to deal with the violent white people. Cops and firefighters were attacked and injured.

    White people rioted and looted in Montreal in 1955 when an NHL player was suspended.

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police. Yeah, I know, pumpkins and NHL player suspensions are more important to white people than some African-American kid who probably did something that deserved being killed.

    Most of those African-American kids in West Baltimore don’t think they’re better than anyone else, until they meet someone who thinks they’re better than them.

    Segregation is the only answer. Whites should be allowed to take their tax base and set up communities for themselves, and no one else. Blacks should be allowed to do the same. Neither group should have their tax dollars spent on some other group.

    Problem solved.

    P.S., my dad was like 6 years old in 1955.

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  100. Retired says:
    @Wyrd
    How tiresome it must be to be so monumentally self-righteous everyday, but apparently that's the sacrifice Coates willingly makes for The Dipshit Cause.

    Should be driving a cab.

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  101. Read More
    • Replies: @Wyrd
    Considering how long and fiercely WaPo pounded the hands-up-don't-shoot narrative into the dirt, their willingness to run this story less than a week after the initial chimp-outs in Baltimore makes me suspicious. I'm wondering if Baltimore's majority black rulers are getting nervous and the leftist media lapdogs are being pressured to cover for them.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    He broke his own spine? Seems unlikely.
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  102. Who is Ta-Nesi’s employer?

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    • Replies: @Wyrd
    Satan, natch.
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  103. Wyrd says:
    @David Davenport
    Who is Ta-Nesi's employer?

    Satan, natch.

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  104. Wyrd says:
    @Percy Gryce
    The Narrative begins to unravel--yet again:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

    Considering how long and fiercely WaPo pounded the hands-up-don’t-shoot narrative into the dirt, their willingness to run this story less than a week after the initial chimp-outs in Baltimore makes me suspicious. I’m wondering if Baltimore’s majority black rulers are getting nervous and the leftist media lapdogs are being pressured to cover for them.

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  105. Truth says:

    When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself.

    LMFAO!

    I’d like to see Ta-Neshisi’s Candy-ass out there lobbing molotov cocktails through store windows, risking a 2o year sentence for arson.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    During one of his vacations from the Atlantic, he let a guest blogger who had done time for carjacking or something.
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  106. Truth says:
    @H2
    Comments are closed on the article, of course.

    I've read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we're inching towards something like that.

    I’ve read, but not actually seen, that Birth of a Nation depicts blacks terrorizing whites until the KKK comes in and saves the day. One wonders if we’re inching towards something like that.

    Uh, not until, old Boy, average white men like yourself are ready to join the KKK.

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  107. Truth says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    The police should keep stats on the aggressions of the rioters: how many rocks were thrown etc. Society needs to do a better job of shaming this behavior at a deeper level. Even in 2015, there is the rare incident of genuine white on black/other hate crimes, but society is extremely successful at deeply shaming such actions where even the far right types bend over backwards to distance themselves from it. This same kind of shame and distancing should work both ways. I understand most protesters didn't engage in violent rioting, but that logic is silly. Obama actively shames America over black slavery yet most Americans, even most southerners never owned slaves or participated in the slave trade. Obama still repeatedly generalizes the guilt and shame.

    If treatment of blacks and racism is so terrible, why are the voluntary migration patterns of black people not consistent with this? We see blacks fleeing Africa in large numbers, and fleeing places like Detroit and a small number of blacks are moving away from Baltimore, but they seem to be choosing places like recently white majority places like Ferguson, and of course Europe.

    I am personally married into the black American underclass, and through my wife, I know what a lot of blacks think on stuff like this. On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn't grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it's an excuse to riot. Lots of blacks are genuinely embarrassed by this behavior. And some avoid discussing it or thinking about it, because there isn't really a happy way to view this situation. They would still be horrified by what Steve Sailer says or what I think. Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd. Coates is one of the more extreme and outspoken. I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.

    On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn’t grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it’s an excuse to riot.

    For most, I think it’s an excuse to discount shop.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    For most, I think it’s an excuse to discount shop.
     
    I think you're right.
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  108. Truth says:
    @Jefferson
    I predict that in my lifetime the percentage of Blacks in Baltimore will reach Detroit levels of Blackness. Unlike nearby Washington D.C, Baltimore is not experiencing a Gentrification and getting less Black. Whites are not taking back Baltimore, White flight in Baltimore is permanent.

    White flight in Baltimore is permanent.

    The only thing permanent in life, Daniel-San, is impermanence.

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  109. Truth says:
    @Twinkie

    Even if I accept the premise that there’s a war going on between the black community and the police
     
    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the "white establishment."

    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the “white establishment.”

    And you have admitted to spending so much time around black people as to know what they think.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    And you have admitted to spending so much time around black people as to know what they think.
     
    My last dung-eating posting was Norfolk, VA. Why don't you look up the demographics of that area?
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  110. Truth says:
    @Mike Sylwester

    When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con.
     
    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.

    Likewise when Michael Brown attacked police officer Darren Wilson brutally, Wilson had a right to defend himself.

    Nobody should have expected either Zimmerman or Wilson to begin to exercise non-violence halfway through either of those fights.

    Neither Martin nor Brown, as the aggressors, should be able to call "time out" when their victims fight back.

    When non-violence is preached by Negroes while they dole out heaps of violence to other races, then that preaching reveals itself to be a con.

    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.

    You’ve seen video?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wyrd
    This creepy-ass cracker relies on Rachel "I can't read my own testimony" Jeantel.

    Nice try, Truth. What is it about Baltimore that makes you become Yoda all of a sudden?
    , @Mike Sylwester

    You’ve seen video?
     
    I've seen plenty of evidence.

    For example, during the so-called "Defending Yourself While White" trial of George Zimmerman, a neighbor named Jonathan Good testified about the Trayvon Martin's brutal attack on Zimmerman. Good saw Martin sitting on top of Zimmerman and using a mixed-martial-art (MMA) technique called "Ground and Pound" to beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk. In this technique, a martial-arts expert like Martin uses his own body to hold his victim's body down on the ground and then uses his fists to pound the victim's face.

    Good's testimony included the following passage:


    Defense Attorney O’Mara
    Just to clarify what was actually talked about with investigator Serino, during this, we’re going to call it for the moment "the Ground-and-Pound" conversation. We have a rule called completeness, so what I want to do is put it in context for you, ask you if this is what you said to Chris Serino. OK?

    [quoting Good's own previous statement to investigator Serino:] “Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Is that the context in which that happened?

    Good
    Yes.

    O’Mara
    And then Investigator Serino said a word .... he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:

    “Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete ... so at this point I told him I’m calling 911.” .....

    And that was the context in which the words Ground-and-Pound came out. ....

    And do you stand by that today, that what you saw is was a Ground-and-Pound event?

    Good
    It looked like that position was a Ground-and-Pound type of position, but I couldn’t tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces.

    O’Mara
    But you did see [reading] “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Good
    Meaning arm motions going down on the person on the bottom. Correct.
     

    Here is a video demonstrating the brutal Ground-and-Pound technique that Martin used to pound Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KhLmf1yBA

    ----------

    In regard to Michael Brown's brutal attack on police officer Darren Wilson, I invite you and everyone else to read my blog titled People Who Did Not See Michael Brown Being Killed.

    http://people-who-did-not-see.blogspot.com/

    My blog assembles and explains all the evidence that the killing of Brown was not seen at all by three supposed witnesses -- Dorian Johnson, Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell. The stories that those three told to the mass media during the days immediately following the Ferguson incident were lies. During those first days, the public outrage was based entirely on those three liars.

    , @AnotherDad

    You’ve seen video?
     
    It's too bad a video wasn't discovered midway through the Trayvon! (TM) circus. That would have been hilarious to see all the furious and ferocious backpedaling, excuse making, blame shifting, "that's not the point"ing.

    But while we don't have a video for the final moments we do have witness John Good from the apartment right next to where Trayvon was killed:

    "So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”
     
    The only questionable part of the case is their initial confrontation. And we have a pretty good guess at that from Zimmerman's 911 call, and Martin's conversation with Rachel Jeantel. In short, the 911 dispatcher made Zimmerman divert from following Martin to go out to the cross street, because he did not know what the cross street was. In other words he was behind Martin, and then lost Martin. Martin had a clear unobstructed path home, without Zimmerman even in view--and may have even reached his (i.e. his dad's girlfriend's) front door.

    For there to have even been a confrontation, Martin had to have turned around. And his conversation with Jeantel suggests the possible reason:


    “Creepy, white, kill-my-neighbors cracker,” Jeantel replied, and when asked to repeat her testimony a few times, added, “He looked like a creepy ass cracker.”

    “He told me the man was looking at him,” she added, “so I had to think it might have been a rapist. Might have been a rapist.”
     
    Best explaination: Martin had already thought Zimmerman was a "creepy-assed cracker" and Jeantel's teasing with "rapist" comment made Martin feel like he ought to go teach the faggot a lesson.

    We have no witness to their actually meeting. Zimmerman's version is Martin confronted him:


    Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

    Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
     
    ~~~
    This story in sum:
    Zimmerman sees young black guy in hoodie--not a resident of complex--strolling through his apartment complex looking in windows, thinks "possible crook", starts following him and calls 911.

    Martin sees "creepy-assed cracker" following him, reports it to Jeantel, who teases about possible "rapist", where upon Martin decides to teach the faggot a lesson and *turns around* goes back and finds Zimmerman, cold cocks him, knocking him to the ground, then jumps on top and starts pummeling him and banging his head into the concrete. Unfortunately for Martin ... Zimmerman's packing heat.

    In short: a gay-bashing "gone wrong".
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  111. Wyrd says:
    @Truth

    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.
     
    You've seen video?

    This creepy-ass cracker relies on Rachel “I can’t read my own testimony” Jeantel.

    Nice try, Truth. What is it about Baltimore that makes you become Yoda all of a sudden?

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  112. @SPMoore8
    Riot shaming, rape shaming, crime shaming ...... time for the War on Shame.

    Yes, they truly have no shame and are longing for a brilliant post-shame future.

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  113. @Jonathan Silber
    At the rate we're losing acceptable expressions for describing violent Black criminals, soon we'll be down to only "Perfect Angel" and "Gentle Giant."

    “Perfect Angel” and “Gentle Giant.”

    Much like the asthmatic Eric Garner with the weak heart,
    now we get the “Delicate Dealer” ….

    Precious and fragile. Please handle with extreme care!

    So when they sell poison to black brothers, they look the other way.
    Maybe occupying forces should withdraw to allow local autonomy. They’ll choose as much law and order as they want. Let the locals decide how much their own innocents, children, senior citizens should suffer in terror of thugs.

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  114. Truth says:
    @Kylie

    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police.
     
    Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.


    http://www.inforum.com/sites/default/files/styles/full_1000/public/field/image/BALTIMORE_12582361.JPG?itok=Gh35v5hc

    Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.

    Now tell me you wouldn’t be a little traumatized by that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie

    @Kylie
    "Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper."

    Now tell me you wouldn’t be a little traumatized by that.
     
    Truthfully?

    I would be. But thanks to my superior future time orientation, it will probably never happen. I checked my stash* just yesterday and am down to about 30 rolls total. I admit to a slight feeling of unease.

    *In-house stash, doesn't include what's in my purse or the family vehicle. Also, I know coffee filters can be used in times of genuine crisis and I just bought 200.
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  115. Truth says:
    @FactsAreImportant

    Most African-American males see the brutality and disproportionate level of violence used against them, by police, on a daily basis.
     



    African-Americans? They just riot when young males in their community are brutalized and killed by police.
     
    Wrong.

    Blacks are not disproportionately killed by police.

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks. (This is from FBI data. For a good summary, see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3180/what-s-the-racial-breakdown-of-people-killed-by-cops.)

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks

    .

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FactsAreImportant

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.
     
    Non-sequitor is too strong. It is a useful, but imperfect statistic.

    If only violentl criminals were killed by police, we would expect about 40-50% of killings to be of blacks. But, as you point out, not all killings are of violent criminals. Judging by the string of recent hysterias, though, MOST of the killings are of violent criminals. So, in the absence of racial bias, we would expect the figure to be a bit less than 40-50%. And that is exactly what we see. So, the facts do not support the conclusion that police killings are racially biased.

    Be honest, doesn't it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    Be honest, don't the screaming liars make it sound like it is about 80%?

    Be honest, wouldn't a lot of the wind go out of the sales of the screaming liars if they acknowledged the 30% number?
    , @Marissa
    Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal

    The guy was caught on video struggling with a police officer for his taser. And he got what he deserved.
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  116. Clyde says:

    Ta-Nehisi Coates – industrial strength moron. A sign of our times that he is taken seriously and gets paid for his scribblings.

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  117. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @pinto

    My mother was raised in the same housing project, Gilmor Homes, where Freddie Gray was killed.
     
    Yeah, he is emotionally close, but geographically far. I wonder how white Coates's neighborhood is, hmm?

    I think he lives in Harlem, so, probably not that white, but gentrifying.

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  118. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Percy Gryce
    The Narrative begins to unravel--yet again:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

    He broke his own spine? Seems unlikely.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce

    He broke his own spine? Seems unlikely.
     
    Yes, and Trayvon was stalked and murdered, Michael Brown had his hands up, and Jackie was gang raped.

    Do try to keep up:

    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html
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  119. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Truth

    When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself.
     
    LMFAO!

    I'd like to see Ta-Neshisi's Candy-ass out there lobbing molotov cocktails through store windows, risking a 2o year sentence for arson.

    During one of his vacations from the Atlantic, he let a guest blogger who had done time for carjacking or something.

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  120. 5371 says:
    @Maj. Kong
    That's incitement to violence, sedition. Liberals have raged about half-witted Tea Partiers waxing nostalgic about "2nd Amendment Solutions".

    Quite odd to use the "slut-shaming" "fat-shaming" term that way. Is rioting feminine now?

    Who invented Pussy Riot?

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  121. @Anonymous
    In 1957 Eisenhower had to send the 101st Airborne to get young black men and women into school. In 1963 JFK nationalized the Alabama Guard to get the Governor out of the doorway and black men and women into college.

    Now in Baltimore, a city with a Black mayor and a majority non-white city council, black men and women they leave school to join in a riot and the Governor has to call out the national guard to stop them. College drop out T-Nehisis Coates applauds the rioters conduct.

    The question is why don’t white Southerners react like Chechens now? They did in the 19th century. What are the psychological and social conditions that cause a people to fight an all out guerrilla war? Will the future belong to the Chechens, Nuristanis and other folks who follow the “better to die on my feet than live on my knees” view of foreign domination? Or will they go the way of the saber toothed tiger?

    What you are seeing in Baltimore is adolescent raiding like that of the Iron Age Spartans… or Zulus. The walking while white attacks are part of this too. White teenagers used to beat up people of different races and ethnic groups or from neighboring towns until a few generations ago. I’m sure many here have heard or read accounts of this being part of the tempo of daily life before WWII. Grandpa had to run to school rather than walk etc. Drunks getting rolled in small town America and so forth.

    This neo-race riot thing can do real damage to the liberal coalition. Liberal elites know this.

    I’m sure liberal academics are working creepy tactics to pacify urban blacks into their various social engineering schemes. Expect to see really intrusive and weird social engineering schemes rolled out with the unstated intent to correct the behavior of urban underclass blacks. In this kind of political environment, with hysteria building to “do something,” frauds, cons and quackery thrive.

    Should be some wacked out stuff coming to education, social services, the legal system, policing, health care etc. over this. Special vitamins in the cafeteria food, new age stuff, self help hokum…not to mention more obvious stuff like black power curriculums and grants to gangs. Anything might get traction in this climate.

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  122. @Truth

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks
     
    .

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.

    Non-sequitor is too strong. It is a useful, but imperfect statistic.

    If only violentl criminals were killed by police, we would expect about 40-50% of killings to be of blacks. But, as you point out, not all killings are of violent criminals. Judging by the string of recent hysterias, though, MOST of the killings are of violent criminals. So, in the absence of racial bias, we would expect the figure to be a bit less than 40-50%. And that is exactly what we see. So, the facts do not support the conclusion that police killings are racially biased.

    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    Be honest, don’t the screaming liars make it sound like it is about 80%?

    Be honest, wouldn’t a lot of the wind go out of the sales of the screaming liars if they acknowledged the 30% number?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    By the way, I think intentional suicide-by-cop is more of a white thing.
    , @Truth


    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?
     
    No! We make up 12% of the population. As I've said here multiple times, my main problem with the police murders, is that it's a slippery slope from what we have now, to armed military occupancy, not that some 3rd rate warehouse burglar lost his life.
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  123. It is sad that everything we are seeing today in Philadelphia is a replay of what we saw in the 60s when so many American cities burned.

    Back then, riots were often touched off when some petty black criminal got killed by police while doing something petty and criminal.

    Nothing has changed in 50 years. As Derb often says, back then, there was hope that this all would change as blacks threw off their shackles and joined respectable society. But nothing changed. And people who can remember are just tired of it all.

    Unfortunately, each new generation has to listen to the same screaming liars and learn the same lessons for themselves. It’s almost as if all of this is just a lucrative industry set up to provide unending employment for screaming racist liars.

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  124. @FactsAreImportant

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.
     
    Non-sequitor is too strong. It is a useful, but imperfect statistic.

    If only violentl criminals were killed by police, we would expect about 40-50% of killings to be of blacks. But, as you point out, not all killings are of violent criminals. Judging by the string of recent hysterias, though, MOST of the killings are of violent criminals. So, in the absence of racial bias, we would expect the figure to be a bit less than 40-50%. And that is exactly what we see. So, the facts do not support the conclusion that police killings are racially biased.

    Be honest, doesn't it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    Be honest, don't the screaming liars make it sound like it is about 80%?

    Be honest, wouldn't a lot of the wind go out of the sales of the screaming liars if they acknowledged the 30% number?

    By the way, I think intentional suicide-by-cop is more of a white thing.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    By the way, I think intentional suicide-by-cop is more of a white thing.
     
    What's the deal with that? Is that the life insurance policy pays off in that case whereas it wouldn't if you pulled the trigger yourself?
    , @D. K.
    Non-Hispanic Whites are about five times the number of non-Hispanic Blacks, currently, in the United States. Whites are about 2.5 times more likely, I believe it is, to commit suicide. So, all other things being equal, you would expect that the number of Whites committing suicide-by-cop would be about a dozen times, or so, more frequent, in the United States, than the number of Blacks doing so.
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  125. Clyde says:
    @ben tillman
    Coates is the same kind of mascot that Malcolm Little disdained himself for being when he was elected student body (or senior class?) president at his mostly White high school. Of course, Malcolm X probably had 20 or 30 IQ points on Two-Digit Coates, so Coates's case is much more patronizingly pathetic.

    Coates is the same kind of mascot that Malcolm Little disdained himself for being when he was elected student body (or senior class?) president at his mostly White high school. Of course, Malcolm X probably had 20 or 30 IQ points on Two-Digit Coates, so Coates’s case is much more patronizingly pathetic.

    Malcom X was on the ball and was pretty bright. When I see a photo of Coate’s and read his material, I don’t see any high grade intelligence. The guy looks like he should be loading trucks at Macy’s.

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  126. @Truth

    On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn’t grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it’s an excuse to riot.
     
    For most, I think it's an excuse to discount shop.

    For most, I think it’s an excuse to discount shop.

    I think you’re right.

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  127. @Steve Sailer
    By the way, I think intentional suicide-by-cop is more of a white thing.

    By the way, I think intentional suicide-by-cop is more of a white thing.

    What’s the deal with that? Is that the life insurance policy pays off in that case whereas it wouldn’t if you pulled the trigger yourself?

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  128. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    He’s just another black who writes about blacks continually, that is, about himself. That’s all they care about, it’s just ME ME ME.
    When it comes to people like this just change the channel. They have nothing to offer.
    Multiracialism=America’s misfortune, an albatross around it’s neck.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Some years ago, Robert Stacy McCain wrote that The Atlantic was 'a notorious snob shop' and that they're idea of 'diversity' was hiring Megan McArdle as a columnist because her undergraduate degree was from Penn and not Harvard (their other regulars included Andrew Sullivan, Matthew Yglesias, Ross Douthat, Marc Ambinder and Clive Crook, i.e. a crew which has four Harvard degrees and two Oxford degrees between them). They leaven it all with a dropout from Howard University. He's a mascot, and his range of interests is less than catholic ("blackety blackety black black black" in the words of a critic). And what he does is produce verbiage, but very little insight.
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  129. @Lackawanna
    Fleeing Baltimore: The Documentary

    Former Baltimore City residents explain why they fled the City for the safety of the surrounding counties.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccjMjqXEMxw

    Synopsis: Smart, civic-minded, good-humored white people express their frustrations over living smack-dab in the middle of the Black ghetto of Baltimore with its Black-run administration; and, despite their years of unstinting effort, failing to make so much as a dent on the crime and filth and noise and dangers attendant on living there.

    Though their black neighbors figure large in the video, including a carjacker who is described as threatening, on camera, the life of a white activist, the word Black, unless I am much mistaken, is never uttered at any time in the video.

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  130. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve come to believe that what is referred to in modern terms as “racist” is actually rational actors responding to black violence.

    If blacks, as a group, acted like Jews or Asians then “racism” would disappear.

    And I think at some level TNC intuitively understands this. Therefore he has to make the ridiculous argument that opposing black mobs is somehow racist.

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  131. NeonBets says:

    You just know that Coates was having a Joe Dimaggio moment when he wrote this.

    Baltimore is his turf after all and during these brief, turbulent days it is the center of the universe. And yet, up ’till now, we’ve gotten little of the wisdom we expect from Ta-Nahesi. Where have you gone Ta-Nahesi? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you. Woo woo woo.

    You also just know that Coates spent an excruciating day agonizing over how he was going to pen the piece that would define the zeitgeist of persecution suffered by people of color circa 2015. With this piece, he would come to be known as the intellectual corollary to the id of Jay-Z; and together they form the psychic apparatus of his people.

    Take a moment,now, and step into Ta’s daydream. The two of them are on stage and Jay Z is rappin’ poetic about the Thug Life and Injustice and Shit. [It's Pure Genius, btw. Of course,using Jay-Z and "pure genius" in a single sentence is redundant as everything Jay Z does is pure genius. In monosyllabic meter.] Coates is by his side, bobbing in agreement. “Yeah. Uh. Yeah.”

    And now, it Ta’s Turn…so what does he do? He breaks out his Random Sentence Generator and blows us away with with gems like this: When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse.

    And his peeps, together with the editors of the Atlantic, bob their heads and say to themselves: “I have no idea what the fuck he’s saying here. But whatever it is…I agree with it.”

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  132. Mike Zwick [AKA "Dahinda"] says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    The police should keep stats on the aggressions of the rioters: how many rocks were thrown etc. Society needs to do a better job of shaming this behavior at a deeper level. Even in 2015, there is the rare incident of genuine white on black/other hate crimes, but society is extremely successful at deeply shaming such actions where even the far right types bend over backwards to distance themselves from it. This same kind of shame and distancing should work both ways. I understand most protesters didn't engage in violent rioting, but that logic is silly. Obama actively shames America over black slavery yet most Americans, even most southerners never owned slaves or participated in the slave trade. Obama still repeatedly generalizes the guilt and shame.

    If treatment of blacks and racism is so terrible, why are the voluntary migration patterns of black people not consistent with this? We see blacks fleeing Africa in large numbers, and fleeing places like Detroit and a small number of blacks are moving away from Baltimore, but they seem to be choosing places like recently white majority places like Ferguson, and of course Europe.

    I am personally married into the black American underclass, and through my wife, I know what a lot of blacks think on stuff like this. On one hand, many common blacks realize that this isn't grounded in serious injustice or concern over Freddie Gray or Michael Brown, it's an excuse to riot. Lots of blacks are genuinely embarrassed by this behavior. And some avoid discussing it or thinking about it, because there isn't really a happy way to view this situation. They would still be horrified by what Steve Sailer says or what I think. Also, a large percentage, probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd. Coates is one of the more extreme and outspoken. I am baffled that large numbers of white progressives think Coates is quite reasonable.

    probably more than half, of blacks are profoundly pro-black and anti-white in ways that are foreign to the college educated crowd

    .

    When white become a minority, political correctness will be the first thing to go. I grew up in a neighborhood where almost every race and culture was represented and I showed me that political correctness was just a way for one group of whites to shame another, holding minorities up as props.

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  133. @Truth

    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.
     
    You've seen video?

    You’ve seen video?

    I’ve seen plenty of evidence.

    For example, during the so-called “Defending Yourself While White” trial of George Zimmerman, a neighbor named Jonathan Good testified about the Trayvon Martin’s brutal attack on Zimmerman. Good saw Martin sitting on top of Zimmerman and using a mixed-martial-art (MMA) technique called “Ground and Pound” to beat Zimmerman’s head into the concrete sidewalk. In this technique, a martial-arts expert like Martin uses his own body to hold his victim’s body down on the ground and then uses his fists to pound the victim’s face.

    Good’s testimony included the following passage:

    Defense Attorney O’Mara
    Just to clarify what was actually talked about with investigator Serino, during this, we’re going to call it for the moment “the Ground-and-Pound” conversation. We have a rule called completeness, so what I want to do is put it in context for you, ask you if this is what you said to Chris Serino. OK?

    [quoting Good's own previous statement to investigator Serino:] “Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Is that the context in which that happened?

    Good
    Yes.

    O’Mara
    And then Investigator Serino said a word …. he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:

    “Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete … so at this point I told him I’m calling 911.” …..

    And that was the context in which the words Ground-and-Pound came out. ….

    And do you stand by that today, that what you saw is was a Ground-and-Pound event?

    Good
    It looked like that position was a Ground-and-Pound type of position, but I couldn’t tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces.

    O’Mara
    But you did see [reading] “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Good
    Meaning arm motions going down on the person on the bottom. Correct.

    Here is a video demonstrating the brutal Ground-and-Pound technique that Martin used to pound Zimmerman’s head into the concrete sidewalk.

    ———-

    In regard to Michael Brown’s brutal attack on police officer Darren Wilson, I invite you and everyone else to read my blog titled People Who Did Not See Michael Brown Being Killed.

    http://people-who-did-not-see.blogspot.com/

    My blog assembles and explains all the evidence that the killing of Brown was not seen at all by three supposed witnesses — Dorian Johnson, Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell. The stories that those three told to the mass media during the days immediately following the Ferguson incident were lies. During those first days, the public outrage was based entirely on those three liars.

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    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester
    I forgot to provide a link to the testimony of eyewitness Jonathan Good in the so-called "Defending Yourself While White" trial of George Zimmerman.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-blockbuster-transcript-eyewitness-good-black-guy-in-black-hoodie-on-top-punching-down-mixed-martial-arts-style/

    Mr. Good described Trayvon Martin using the "Ground and Pound" techniques of Mixed Martial Arts in order to pound Zimmerman's head into a concrete sidewalk.

    , @Truth

    In this technique, a martial-arts expert like Martin uses his own body to hold his victim’s body down on the ground and then uses his fists to pound the victim’s face.
     
    Trayvon Martin was a "martial-arts expert?"

    Did I miss something? When was he scheduled to fight for the title? No offense Bro, but I stopped reading right there.
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  134. Merema says:
    @Mike Sylwester

    When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con.
     
    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.

    Likewise when Michael Brown attacked police officer Darren Wilson brutally, Wilson had a right to defend himself.

    Nobody should have expected either Zimmerman or Wilson to begin to exercise non-violence halfway through either of those fights.

    Neither Martin nor Brown, as the aggressors, should be able to call "time out" when their victims fight back.

    When non-violence is preached by Negroes while they dole out heaps of violence to other races, then that preaching reveals itself to be a con.

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?
     
    You are clueless about the facts.
    , @Kylie

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?
     
    "Proactively defend himself"--gotta love it.

    Yeah, Trayvon had about as much right to proactively defend himself as I would if I shot a teen-aged black male coming up my front walk, given that I'm a middle-aged woman in a neighborhood in which several homes were burglarized by--you guessed it!--a teen-aged black male.
    , @Kylie

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?
     
    "Proactively defend himself"--gotta love it.

    Yeah, Trayvon had about as much right to proactively defend himself as I would if I shot a teen-aged black male coming up my front walk, given that I'm a middle-aged woman in a neighborhood in which several homes were burglarized by--you guessed it!--a teen-aged black male.
    , @AnotherDad

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street,
     
    Marema, for the record Martin was 17, a senior, 6-1 and football player. And Zimmerman wasn't following him on a "deserted residential street", but a very short ways through Zimmerman's apartment complex.

    But yes, Martin had every right to "defend himself" from Zimmerman or any other stranger.

    However, Martin has no right to attack him, just because Zimmerman seems to be following him through the apartment complex. (One, btw, of which Zimmerman is a resident and Martin is not.) Much less to punch him out "MMA style" or slam his head into the concrete.

    Furthermore, Zimmerman was not\could not follow Martin to his father's girlfriend's apartment, because the 911 dispatcher had made him go out to the cross street. Martin had a free, unmolested path to his (father's girlfriend's) apartment and ... *turned around* to go back and confront Zimmerman. (See my comment above in response to Truth.)

    ~~~
    BTW, you whole comment is an attempt to show what a scary figure this Zimmerman guy is to poor little Trayvon. Ok.

    But then explain to me why blacks are always having a cow--a whiny emotional, woe-is-me, self-pitying cow--that some white person took some *minor* protective step--cross the street, clutched their purse in the elevator, looked at them "suspiciously" .... when blacks are in *fact* statistically far, far more dangerous to non-blacks than vice-versa.

    Seems to me by your logic, we white folks ought to just assault suspicious black men we think might be eying us and up to no good as simple basic "proactive self defense".
    , @Art Deco
    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Zimmerman was not 'following him around', they were not on a 'residential street', and the locus was not 'deserted'.

    Martin passed by Zimmerman's parked truck while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police dispatcher; Zimmerman remarked to the dispatcher that "he's checking me out" (which in his subsequent statements he elaborated upon: Martin did a full circuit around his truck). Martin then left the street and headed up a cement walkway which connected one street, (which ran off to the right perpendicular to Zimmerman's truck) to another, which ran parallel to that street. The houses on these two streets faced opposite directions and their back doors faced a central alley which was largely grass and tree covered but had a cement walkway down the center of it. Martin went up the walkway and then, a propos of nothing in particular, ran down the alley way. His father's baby mamma's back door was about 80 yards away from where the two walkways intersected and he could have made the distance in about 12 seconds. Zimmerman got out of his truck at that point and jogged up the walkway connecting the two streets. He never caught sight of him anywhere and walked toward the street opposite while talking to the dispatcher. He concluded his call with the dispatcher, turned around and headed back toward his truck. A fully elaborate timeline of his movements was never produced, but it appears he walked back to where the two walkways intersected and loitered there for a minute or two, waiting for the police. Martin walked back up the alley (a stipulated point) and began beating him.

    1. The place where Martin attacked Zimmerman is well-attested, and can be seen from where Zimmerman's effects (key chain, etc) were dropped as recorded in crime scene photographs.

    2. The autopsy report revealed that Martin had two injuries: an abrasion on his knuckle and a gunshot wound which had been inflicted at close range. Zimmerman was covered in blood from his head being banged into the concrete (as attested in the neighbors' cell phone photos).


    I had many discussions on this sequence of events with social justice aficionados and when pressed eventually offered two sorts of arguments: (1) any scenario was plausible and presumed likely if it assumed Zimmerman's guilt, no matter how speculative or contrived, and (2) black youth have a franchise to beat up people who irritate them. The lawyers who write for National Review offered another bit of wisdom: an ordinary man walking around his own neighborhood waiting for the police is being culpably irresponsible. The writer Dan Flynn offered another: if you shoot someone beating your head into the concrete, you're a 'wuss'.

    Zimmerman's quite the canary in the coal mine. He smokes out the humbugs just by breathing in and out.

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  135. elmer says:

    I got banned from The Atlantic when I posited that Tanisha Coates only pretended to like “rap” music because he thought it annoyed white people. No sense of humor that guy.

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  136. Art Deco says: • Website
    @anonymous
    He's just another black who writes about blacks continually, that is, about himself. That's all they care about, it's just ME ME ME.
    When it comes to people like this just change the channel. They have nothing to offer.
    Multiracialism=America's misfortune, an albatross around it's neck.

    Some years ago, Robert Stacy McCain wrote that The Atlantic was ‘a notorious snob shop’ and that they’re idea of ‘diversity’ was hiring Megan McArdle as a columnist because her undergraduate degree was from Penn and not Harvard (their other regulars included Andrew Sullivan, Matthew Yglesias, Ross Douthat, Marc Ambinder and Clive Crook, i.e. a crew which has four Harvard degrees and two Oxford degrees between them). They leaven it all with a dropout from Howard University. He’s a mascot, and his range of interests is less than catholic (“blackety blackety black black black” in the words of a critic). And what he does is produce verbiage, but very little insight.

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  137. Art Deco says: • Website
    @SPMoore8
    Actually, I think he's a very good prose stylist. His main problem is that he is a college dropout and has never really built up the education in terms of facts, concepts, etc. that he needs to go above the vague generalities one usually finds in his articles (his reparations article was particularly bad in that respect.)

    Why is he anointed? Because he's a black guy who can write long sonorous periods that sound deep. In fact, he's probably the best writer in the current crop of African American writers; certainly better than his heartthrob, Melissa Harris-Perry, who is basically just a media personality.

    Melissa Harris is a lapsed professor and was at one time a producer of academic research on public opinion formation in black populations. She was likely not an engaging writer, but she was tackling a subject that could use some serious explication. She was very misplaced in academe, however, ensconced at a tony research university rather than an ordinary state institution to which she might have been best adapted. At one time, she was also a fairly congenial person for public consumption, not a political sectary at all.

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  138. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Tex
    TNC talks awfully tough for a guy who isn't facing tear gas and rubber bullets. I expect the rioters in Baltimore might quit somewhat short of achieving full social justice. A full shopping cart of goods will no doubt suffice for many.

    I think '15 is shaping up top look a lot like '67. LBJ's commission blamed the riots on racism, naturally. But note that American voters put Nixon in office shortly thereafter. Meanwhile, we're learning that apparently "thug" is racist. So I guess us whiteys will have to refer to Tupac's old label as T-word Life Records.

    There were 200 riots in 1967, including one in Detroit which ran on for nine days and during which 42 people were killed. I do not think we’re going to see a recapitulation of 1967.

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  139. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    This is an interesting point. If he blames whitey so much, why is he bothering to learn a white based language? Why not learn Swahili or Ugandan? Or Egyptian since everyone knows who built the pyramids and the Sphinx.

    But THC is basically a younger brother version of Obama. Same message, the historic American nation is/was racist, all whites are racists, etc. but its a little less nuanced for national consumption.

    But THC is basically a younger brother version of Obama.

    Come again? TNC is the issue of the Baltimore slums. His background is pretty bog standard for a black man. Obama is the issue of Honolulu’s haolie society and his knowledge of black America prior to age 20 consisted of chatting with an oddball like Frank Marshall Davis and watching episodes of Soul Train.

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  140. Art Deco says: • Website
    @ben tillman
    Coates is the same kind of mascot that Malcolm Little disdained himself for being when he was elected student body (or senior class?) president at his mostly White high school. Of course, Malcolm X probably had 20 or 30 IQ points on Two-Digit Coates, so Coates's case is much more patronizingly pathetic.

    He attended Howard University, not one of the black colleges operated by the State of Maryland. If he really was not college material, he’d have been at a ruin like Morgan State or Coppin State, not at Howard.

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  141. Kylie says:
    @Truth

    Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.
     
    Now tell me you wouldn't be a little traumatized by that.


    “Right. Or they riot at other times of crisis, such as when they run out of toilet paper.”

    Now tell me you wouldn’t be a little traumatized by that.

    Truthfully?

    I would be. But thanks to my superior future time orientation, it will probably never happen. I checked my stash* just yesterday and am down to about 30 rolls total. I admit to a slight feeling of unease.

    *In-house stash, doesn’t include what’s in my purse or the family vehicle. Also, I know coffee filters can be used in times of genuine crisis and I just bought 200.

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  142. Hey Steve,

    I would like to suggest you do more movie reviews again. I know Ta-Nehisi Coates thinks we’re in a war and all (and doubtles so do many here), but man does not live by soldiering alone, and frankly, I’d really like to hear your take on “Ex Machina.”

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  143. @Merema
    Doesn't Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    You are clueless about the facts.

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  144. @Dave Pinsen
    I'm surprised the Coates's editor lets him close off comments. Think of all the hits the Atlantic is missing out on.

    You may remember the voter intimidation that occurred at a polling place in Philadelphia in 2008. Short take: 2 members of the New Black Panthers Party stood outside of the polling place dressed in paramilitary garb, one of them carrying a riot stick and saying things like ‘Prepare to be ruled by the black man, Cracker!’ Bartle Bull, who had gone to Mississippi w/Bobby Kennedy back in the day, said it was as clear a case of voter intimidation as he had ever seen.

    As laws regarding showing ID at polling places began to appear, Coates naturally cried racism. Equally naturally, commenters at the Atlantic brought up the NBP real voter intimidation. Coates informed posters that bringing that subject up in a comment would keep that comment from being posted. The NBP youtube was all over the net so it wasn’t a question of did it happen. Coates just didn’t have an answer.

    I lost a lot of respect for the Atlantic, which I had subscribed to for decades at that point.

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  145. Kylie says:
    @Merema
    Doesn't Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    “Proactively defend himself”–gotta love it.

    Yeah, Trayvon had about as much right to proactively defend himself as I would if I shot a teen-aged black male coming up my front walk, given that I’m a middle-aged woman in a neighborhood in which several homes were burglarized by–you guessed it!–a teen-aged black male.

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  146. Kylie says:
    @Merema
    Doesn't Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    “Proactively defend himself”–gotta love it.

    Yeah, Trayvon had about as much right to proactively defend himself as I would if I shot a teen-aged black male coming up my front walk, given that I’m a middle-aged woman in a neighborhood in which several homes were burglarized by–you guessed it!–a teen-aged black male.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    You are arguing the wrong point. You should argue the semantics and point out that the common usage for "proactively defend" is attack.

    No, you are not allowed to get your retaliation in first.

    I do agree to a fairly large extent with Coates larger point: The 99% are under attack by the State and its owners in very many ways and the police are the retail level distributors of the States main product: Violence

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  147. @Mike Sylwester

    You’ve seen video?
     
    I've seen plenty of evidence.

    For example, during the so-called "Defending Yourself While White" trial of George Zimmerman, a neighbor named Jonathan Good testified about the Trayvon Martin's brutal attack on Zimmerman. Good saw Martin sitting on top of Zimmerman and using a mixed-martial-art (MMA) technique called "Ground and Pound" to beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk. In this technique, a martial-arts expert like Martin uses his own body to hold his victim's body down on the ground and then uses his fists to pound the victim's face.

    Good's testimony included the following passage:


    Defense Attorney O’Mara
    Just to clarify what was actually talked about with investigator Serino, during this, we’re going to call it for the moment "the Ground-and-Pound" conversation. We have a rule called completeness, so what I want to do is put it in context for you, ask you if this is what you said to Chris Serino. OK?

    [quoting Good's own previous statement to investigator Serino:] “Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Is that the context in which that happened?

    Good
    Yes.

    O’Mara
    And then Investigator Serino said a word .... he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:

    “Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete ... so at this point I told him I’m calling 911.” .....

    And that was the context in which the words Ground-and-Pound came out. ....

    And do you stand by that today, that what you saw is was a Ground-and-Pound event?

    Good
    It looked like that position was a Ground-and-Pound type of position, but I couldn’t tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces.

    O’Mara
    But you did see [reading] “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Good
    Meaning arm motions going down on the person on the bottom. Correct.
     

    Here is a video demonstrating the brutal Ground-and-Pound technique that Martin used to pound Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KhLmf1yBA

    ----------

    In regard to Michael Brown's brutal attack on police officer Darren Wilson, I invite you and everyone else to read my blog titled People Who Did Not See Michael Brown Being Killed.

    http://people-who-did-not-see.blogspot.com/

    My blog assembles and explains all the evidence that the killing of Brown was not seen at all by three supposed witnesses -- Dorian Johnson, Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell. The stories that those three told to the mass media during the days immediately following the Ferguson incident were lies. During those first days, the public outrage was based entirely on those three liars.

    I forgot to provide a link to the testimony of eyewitness Jonathan Good in the so-called “Defending Yourself While White” trial of George Zimmerman.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-blockbuster-transcript-eyewitness-good-black-guy-in-black-hoodie-on-top-punching-down-mixed-martial-arts-style/

    Mr. Good described Trayvon Martin using the “Ground and Pound” techniques of Mixed Martial Arts in order to pound Zimmerman’s head into a concrete sidewalk.

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  148. Marissa says:
    @Truth

    About 30% of the people killed by police are black, but about 42% of police killed are killed by blacks, and about 40-50% of violent crime is committed by blacks
     
    .

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.

    Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal

    The guy was caught on video struggling with a police officer for his taser. And he got what he deserved.

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    • Replies: @Dahlia
    That's.... ferocious. You made another comment recently that struck me the same.

    He did not deserve that. I don't know whether the cop is the most evil person in the world, but it's still tragic what happened to Mr. Scott.

    I used to live for three years in the area where Mr. Scott was killed. His family, especially, is very similar to so many of the Blacks that I knew or worked with and they are in no way like the thugs down in the ghetto core closer to the peninsula (I lived down there briefly as well, back when it was making the top 10 most dangerous place in America; still dangerous). He was in the Coast Guard, right? His parents have been married 50 years. Working and middle class.
    Mr. Scott was no Michael Brown.
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  149. Svigor says:

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    The evidence suggests that Tray-tray assaulted George without provocation and was beating him to death. This is what self-defense is for.

    Here I mean “provocation” in the adult sense of the word, not the black ghetto sense, where anything and everything can be characterized as provocation, if it serves the black narrative.

    That aside, it’s funny how blacks think everyone has an IQ of 85; “what was he going to do, walk 20′, go inside his house, and call the cops if he felt threatened?”

    “Proactively defend himself,” lol. Is that like when the Soviets proactively defended themselves by invading Poland?

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  150. @Truth

    When Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman brutally, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.
     
    You've seen video?

    You’ve seen video?

    It’s too bad a video wasn’t discovered midway through the Trayvon! (TM) circus. That would have been hilarious to see all the furious and ferocious backpedaling, excuse making, blame shifting, “that’s not the point”ing.

    But while we don’t have a video for the final moments we do have witness John Good from the apartment right next to where Trayvon was killed:

    “So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    The only questionable part of the case is their initial confrontation. And we have a pretty good guess at that from Zimmerman’s 911 call, and Martin’s conversation with Rachel Jeantel. In short, the 911 dispatcher made Zimmerman divert from following Martin to go out to the cross street, because he did not know what the cross street was. In other words he was behind Martin, and then lost Martin. Martin had a clear unobstructed path home, without Zimmerman even in view–and may have even reached his (i.e. his dad’s girlfriend’s) front door.

    For there to have even been a confrontation, Martin had to have turned around. And his conversation with Jeantel suggests the possible reason:

    “Creepy, white, kill-my-neighbors cracker,” Jeantel replied, and when asked to repeat her testimony a few times, added, “He looked like a creepy ass cracker.”

    “He told me the man was looking at him,” she added, “so I had to think it might have been a rapist. Might have been a rapist.”

    Best explaination: Martin had already thought Zimmerman was a “creepy-assed cracker” and Jeantel’s teasing with “rapist” comment made Martin feel like he ought to go teach the faggot a lesson.

    We have no witness to their actually meeting. Zimmerman’s version is Martin confronted him:

    Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, “Well, you do now” or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

    Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

    ~~~
    This story in sum:
    Zimmerman sees young black guy in hoodie–not a resident of complex–strolling through his apartment complex looking in windows, thinks “possible crook”, starts following him and calls 911.

    Martin sees “creepy-assed cracker” following him, reports it to Jeantel, who teases about possible “rapist”, where upon Martin decides to teach the faggot a lesson and *turns around* goes back and finds Zimmerman, cold cocks him, knocking him to the ground, then jumps on top and starts pummeling him and banging his head into the concrete. Unfortunately for Martin … Zimmerman’s packing heat.

    In short: a gay-bashing “gone wrong”.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    “So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”
     
    OK, I will make this comment, then hopefully, after a couple of years of this buffoonery, I can extricate myself once and for all.

    What this gentleman saw was the END of a confrontation. Nowhere (that I have read) were than any witnesses to who STARTED the confrontation, or the fight.

    If you evidence to the contrary, please respond to me, if not, by all means, continue your illogical, simple-minded, low-IQ conversation without me.
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  151. @Merema
    Doesn't Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street,

    Marema, for the record Martin was 17, a senior, 6-1 and football player. And Zimmerman wasn’t following him on a “deserted residential street”, but a very short ways through Zimmerman’s apartment complex.

    But yes, Martin had every right to “defend himself” from Zimmerman or any other stranger.

    However, Martin has no right to attack him, just because Zimmerman seems to be following him through the apartment complex. (One, btw, of which Zimmerman is a resident and Martin is not.) Much less to punch him out “MMA style” or slam his head into the concrete.

    Furthermore, Zimmerman was not\could not follow Martin to his father’s girlfriend’s apartment, because the 911 dispatcher had made him go out to the cross street. Martin had a free, unmolested path to his (father’s girlfriend’s) apartment and … *turned around* to go back and confront Zimmerman. (See my comment above in response to Truth.)

    ~~~
    BTW, you whole comment is an attempt to show what a scary figure this Zimmerman guy is to poor little Trayvon. Ok.

    But then explain to me why blacks are always having a cow–a whiny emotional, woe-is-me, self-pitying cow–that some white person took some *minor* protective step–cross the street, clutched their purse in the elevator, looked at them “suspiciously” …. when blacks are in *fact* statistically far, far more dangerous to non-blacks than vice-versa.

    Seems to me by your logic, we white folks ought to just assault suspicious black men we think might be eying us and up to no good as simple basic “proactive self defense”.

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  152. @Dave Pinsen
    He broke his own spine? Seems unlikely.

    He broke his own spine? Seems unlikely.

    Yes, and Trayvon was stalked and murdered, Michael Brown had his hands up, and Jackie was gang raped.

    Do try to keep up:

    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    That link just says the fatal injury occurred during transport, which is what the cop I alluded to upthread speculated. Must have been quite a ride.
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  153. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Percy Gryce

    He broke his own spine? Seems unlikely.
     
    Yes, and Trayvon was stalked and murdered, Michael Brown had his hands up, and Jackie was gang raped.

    Do try to keep up:

    http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/breaking-news-no-evidence-found-that-freddie-gray-s-death-was-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html

    That link just says the fatal injury occurred during transport, which is what the cop I alluded to upthread speculated. Must have been quite a ride.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394
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  154. @Kylie

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?
     
    "Proactively defend himself"--gotta love it.

    Yeah, Trayvon had about as much right to proactively defend himself as I would if I shot a teen-aged black male coming up my front walk, given that I'm a middle-aged woman in a neighborhood in which several homes were burglarized by--you guessed it!--a teen-aged black male.

    You are arguing the wrong point. You should argue the semantics and point out that the common usage for “proactively defend” is attack.

    No, you are not allowed to get your retaliation in first.

    I do agree to a fairly large extent with Coates larger point: The 99% are under attack by the State and its owners in very many ways and the police are the retail level distributors of the States main product: Violence

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    • Replies: @Kylie

    @Kylie
    You are arguing the wrong point. You should argue the semantics and point out that the common usage for “proactively defend” is attack.

    No, you are not allowed to get your retaliation in first.
     
    Oops, that is the point I was trying to make: that I don't have the right to "proactively defend" [attack] a teen-aged black male just for coming up my front walk, even if I'm right to be suspicious of teen-aged black males generally in my area. I didn't mean that the two black males were one and the same.

    By the way, I always enjoy your posts. Thanks for clarifying my point for me.
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  155. Dahlia says:
    @Marissa
    Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal

    The guy was caught on video struggling with a police officer for his taser. And he got what he deserved.

    That’s…. ferocious. You made another comment recently that struck me the same.

    He did not deserve that. I don’t know whether the cop is the most evil person in the world, but it’s still tragic what happened to Mr. Scott.

    I used to live for three years in the area where Mr. Scott was killed. His family, especially, is very similar to so many of the Blacks that I knew or worked with and they are in no way like the thugs down in the ghetto core closer to the peninsula (I lived down there briefly as well, back when it was making the top 10 most dangerous place in America; still dangerous). He was in the Coast Guard, right? His parents have been married 50 years. Working and middle class.
    Mr. Scott was no Michael Brown.

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    • Replies: @Marissa
    It's tragic that Mr. Scott made the damned fool decision to attack a cop for one of his weapons. Your soft-heartedness (and headedness) is one of the reasons women were restricted from voting. Stop thinking so emotionally and comparing violent criminals to "some people you know". And the man was a violent criminal--the moment he attacked an officer of the law and tried to harm him. If you can't understand that, you have no business commenting on the situation, though I do hope you get to experience a similar situation of a "family man" wrestling you to the ground for your weapon. You could use a reality-mugging.
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  156. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Merema
    Doesn't Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Zimmerman was not ‘following him around’, they were not on a ‘residential street’, and the locus was not ‘deserted’.

    Martin passed by Zimmerman’s parked truck while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police dispatcher; Zimmerman remarked to the dispatcher that “he’s checking me out” (which in his subsequent statements he elaborated upon: Martin did a full circuit around his truck). Martin then left the street and headed up a cement walkway which connected one street, (which ran off to the right perpendicular to Zimmerman’s truck) to another, which ran parallel to that street. The houses on these two streets faced opposite directions and their back doors faced a central alley which was largely grass and tree covered but had a cement walkway down the center of it. Martin went up the walkway and then, a propos of nothing in particular, ran down the alley way. His father’s baby mamma’s back door was about 80 yards away from where the two walkways intersected and he could have made the distance in about 12 seconds. Zimmerman got out of his truck at that point and jogged up the walkway connecting the two streets. He never caught sight of him anywhere and walked toward the street opposite while talking to the dispatcher. He concluded his call with the dispatcher, turned around and headed back toward his truck. A fully elaborate timeline of his movements was never produced, but it appears he walked back to where the two walkways intersected and loitered there for a minute or two, waiting for the police. Martin walked back up the alley (a stipulated point) and began beating him.

    1. The place where Martin attacked Zimmerman is well-attested, and can be seen from where Zimmerman’s effects (key chain, etc) were dropped as recorded in crime scene photographs.

    2. The autopsy report revealed that Martin had two injuries: an abrasion on his knuckle and a gunshot wound which had been inflicted at close range. Zimmerman was covered in blood from his head being banged into the concrete (as attested in the neighbors’ cell phone photos).

    I had many discussions on this sequence of events with social justice aficionados and when pressed eventually offered two sorts of arguments: (1) any scenario was plausible and presumed likely if it assumed Zimmerman’s guilt, no matter how speculative or contrived, and (2) black youth have a franchise to beat up people who irritate them. The lawyers who write for National Review offered another bit of wisdom: an ordinary man walking around his own neighborhood waiting for the police is being culpably irresponsible. The writer Dan Flynn offered another: if you shoot someone beating your head into the concrete, you’re a ‘wuss’.

    Zimmerman’s quite the canary in the coal mine. He smokes out the humbugs just by breathing in and out.

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    • Replies: @Merema
    Your "canary" just "smoked out" a middle aged Southern White guy.
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  157. @Dave Pinsen
    That link just says the fatal injury occurred during transport, which is what the cop I alluded to upthread speculated. Must have been quite a ride.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I'm aware of that story, which comes from a police leak. I'm just skeptical the guy broke his own neck.
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  158. D. K. says:
    @Steve Sailer
    By the way, I think intentional suicide-by-cop is more of a white thing.

    Non-Hispanic Whites are about five times the number of non-Hispanic Blacks, currently, in the United States. Whites are about 2.5 times more likely, I believe it is, to commit suicide. So, all other things being equal, you would expect that the number of Whites committing suicide-by-cop would be about a dozen times, or so, more frequent, in the United States, than the number of Blacks doing so.

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  159. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Percy Gryce
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=hpModule_99d5f542-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394

    I’m aware of that story, which comes from a police leak. I’m just skeptical the guy broke his own neck.

    Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    "The soft bigotry of low expectations!"
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  160. Truth says:
    @FactsAreImportant

    Non sequitor. Not everyone killed by the police is a violent criminal. Walter Scott was no more a violent criminal than George Zimmerman.
     
    Non-sequitor is too strong. It is a useful, but imperfect statistic.

    If only violentl criminals were killed by police, we would expect about 40-50% of killings to be of blacks. But, as you point out, not all killings are of violent criminals. Judging by the string of recent hysterias, though, MOST of the killings are of violent criminals. So, in the absence of racial bias, we would expect the figure to be a bit less than 40-50%. And that is exactly what we see. So, the facts do not support the conclusion that police killings are racially biased.

    Be honest, doesn't it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    Be honest, don't the screaming liars make it sound like it is about 80%?

    Be honest, wouldn't a lot of the wind go out of the sales of the screaming liars if they acknowledged the 30% number?

    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    No! We make up 12% of the population. As I’ve said here multiple times, my main problem with the police murders, is that it’s a slippery slope from what we have now, to armed military occupancy, not that some 3rd rate warehouse burglar lost his life.

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    • Replies: @FactsAreImportant

    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    No! We make up 12% of the population. As I’ve said here multiple times, my main problem with the police murders ...
     
    You don't mention the high rates of black criminality. Why not? Aren't they relevant? I included some figures on that in the post you quote from.

    You honestly think that killings by police should be related only to a group's percentage of the population? Really? Wouldn't this require that the police randomly shoot people without regard to criminality?
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  161. Truth says:
    @Mike Sylwester

    You’ve seen video?
     
    I've seen plenty of evidence.

    For example, during the so-called "Defending Yourself While White" trial of George Zimmerman, a neighbor named Jonathan Good testified about the Trayvon Martin's brutal attack on Zimmerman. Good saw Martin sitting on top of Zimmerman and using a mixed-martial-art (MMA) technique called "Ground and Pound" to beat Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk. In this technique, a martial-arts expert like Martin uses his own body to hold his victim's body down on the ground and then uses his fists to pound the victim's face.

    Good's testimony included the following passage:


    Defense Attorney O’Mara
    Just to clarify what was actually talked about with investigator Serino, during this, we’re going to call it for the moment "the Ground-and-Pound" conversation. We have a rule called completeness, so what I want to do is put it in context for you, ask you if this is what you said to Chris Serino. OK?

    [quoting Good's own previous statement to investigator Serino:] “Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Is that the context in which that happened?

    Good
    Yes.

    O’Mara
    And then Investigator Serino said a word .... he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:

    “Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete ... so at this point I told him I’m calling 911.” .....

    And that was the context in which the words Ground-and-Pound came out. ....

    And do you stand by that today, that what you saw is was a Ground-and-Pound event?

    Good
    It looked like that position was a Ground-and-Pound type of position, but I couldn’t tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces.

    O’Mara
    But you did see [reading] “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Good
    Meaning arm motions going down on the person on the bottom. Correct.
     

    Here is a video demonstrating the brutal Ground-and-Pound technique that Martin used to pound Zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KhLmf1yBA

    ----------

    In regard to Michael Brown's brutal attack on police officer Darren Wilson, I invite you and everyone else to read my blog titled People Who Did Not See Michael Brown Being Killed.

    http://people-who-did-not-see.blogspot.com/

    My blog assembles and explains all the evidence that the killing of Brown was not seen at all by three supposed witnesses -- Dorian Johnson, Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell. The stories that those three told to the mass media during the days immediately following the Ferguson incident were lies. During those first days, the public outrage was based entirely on those three liars.

    In this technique, a martial-arts expert like Martin uses his own body to hold his victim’s body down on the ground and then uses his fists to pound the victim’s face.

    Trayvon Martin was a “martial-arts expert?”

    Did I miss something? When was he scheduled to fight for the title? No offense Bro, but I stopped reading right there.

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  162. Truth says:
    @AnotherDad

    You’ve seen video?
     
    It's too bad a video wasn't discovered midway through the Trayvon! (TM) circus. That would have been hilarious to see all the furious and ferocious backpedaling, excuse making, blame shifting, "that's not the point"ing.

    But while we don't have a video for the final moments we do have witness John Good from the apartment right next to where Trayvon was killed:

    "So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”
     
    The only questionable part of the case is their initial confrontation. And we have a pretty good guess at that from Zimmerman's 911 call, and Martin's conversation with Rachel Jeantel. In short, the 911 dispatcher made Zimmerman divert from following Martin to go out to the cross street, because he did not know what the cross street was. In other words he was behind Martin, and then lost Martin. Martin had a clear unobstructed path home, without Zimmerman even in view--and may have even reached his (i.e. his dad's girlfriend's) front door.

    For there to have even been a confrontation, Martin had to have turned around. And his conversation with Jeantel suggests the possible reason:


    “Creepy, white, kill-my-neighbors cracker,” Jeantel replied, and when asked to repeat her testimony a few times, added, “He looked like a creepy ass cracker.”

    “He told me the man was looking at him,” she added, “so I had to think it might have been a rapist. Might have been a rapist.”
     
    Best explaination: Martin had already thought Zimmerman was a "creepy-assed cracker" and Jeantel's teasing with "rapist" comment made Martin feel like he ought to go teach the faggot a lesson.

    We have no witness to their actually meeting. Zimmerman's version is Martin confronted him:


    Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

    Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
     
    ~~~
    This story in sum:
    Zimmerman sees young black guy in hoodie--not a resident of complex--strolling through his apartment complex looking in windows, thinks "possible crook", starts following him and calls 911.

    Martin sees "creepy-assed cracker" following him, reports it to Jeantel, who teases about possible "rapist", where upon Martin decides to teach the faggot a lesson and *turns around* goes back and finds Zimmerman, cold cocks him, knocking him to the ground, then jumps on top and starts pummeling him and banging his head into the concrete. Unfortunately for Martin ... Zimmerman's packing heat.

    In short: a gay-bashing "gone wrong".

    “So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    OK, I will make this comment, then hopefully, after a couple of years of this buffoonery, I can extricate myself once and for all.

    What this gentleman saw was the END of a confrontation. Nowhere (that I have read) were than any witnesses to who STARTED the confrontation, or the fight.

    If you evidence to the contrary, please respond to me, if not, by all means, continue your illogical, simple-minded, low-IQ conversation without me.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    The decedent's highly logical, complex-minded, high-IQ friend, Rachel Jeantel, was on the phone with him, when he violently attacked Mr. Zimmerman; in fact, she was apparently the one who egged him on to do so, instead of his simply entering the safety of the home in which he was staying-- which he had reached, before going back to find Mr. Zimmerman and confront him. The notion that Mr. Zimmerman, carrying a concealed weapon, would have physically assaulted a tall, athletic, younger, Black stranger, while awaiting a policeman's arrival, at any moment, is the type of scenario that only the Neanderthal-free brain could conceive.
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  163. D. K. says:
    @Truth

    “So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”
     
    OK, I will make this comment, then hopefully, after a couple of years of this buffoonery, I can extricate myself once and for all.

    What this gentleman saw was the END of a confrontation. Nowhere (that I have read) were than any witnesses to who STARTED the confrontation, or the fight.

    If you evidence to the contrary, please respond to me, if not, by all means, continue your illogical, simple-minded, low-IQ conversation without me.

    The decedent’s highly logical, complex-minded, high-IQ friend, Rachel Jeantel, was on the phone with him, when he violently attacked Mr. Zimmerman; in fact, she was apparently the one who egged him on to do so, instead of his simply entering the safety of the home in which he was staying– which he had reached, before going back to find Mr. Zimmerman and confront him. The notion that Mr. Zimmerman, carrying a concealed weapon, would have physically assaulted a tall, athletic, younger, Black stranger, while awaiting a policeman’s arrival, at any moment, is the type of scenario that only the Neanderthal-free brain could conceive.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    It doesn't matter what the actual, you know, facts are. Most blacks will continue to believe that a WHITE something (Hispanic? What's that? Someone from Spain? Another cracker!) gunned down a black baby.

    You can talk evidence until your face turns blue, they are not going to get it.

    Hands up, don't shoot, you know.
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  164. D. K. says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    I'm aware of that story, which comes from a police leak. I'm just skeptical the guy broke his own neck.

    “The soft bigotry of low expectations!”

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  165. Twinkie says:
    @Truth

    Some of these violent blacks do not think there is a war between the blacks and the police. They think there is a war between the blacks and the whites (or non-blacks). The police, as such, is for them merely the daily face of the “white establishment.”
     
    And you have admitted to spending so much time around black people as to know what they think.

    And you have admitted to spending so much time around black people as to know what they think.

    My last dung-eating posting was Norfolk, VA. Why don’t you look up the demographics of that area?

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  166. @Truth


    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?
     
    No! We make up 12% of the population. As I've said here multiple times, my main problem with the police murders, is that it's a slippery slope from what we have now, to armed military occupancy, not that some 3rd rate warehouse burglar lost his life.

    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    No! We make up 12% of the population. As I’ve said here multiple times, my main problem with the police murders …

    You don’t mention the high rates of black criminality. Why not? Aren’t they relevant? I included some figures on that in the post you quote from.

    You honestly think that killings by police should be related only to a group’s percentage of the population? Really? Wouldn’t this require that the police randomly shoot people without regard to criminality?

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    • Replies: @Truth
    I said nothing of the sort, you're drawing an extremely indirect corrolation.

    One group is larger.

    One group commits more crime.

    OK we have this much. Now, in which group, per capita, are their more police, in which group do arrested suspects resist arrest by; fleeing, or fighting. Which group is more likely to posses a weapon when getting arrested. Which group is more likely to do the Cliven Bundy, Waco, "the government is bad" thing? Etc. Etc. There are plenty of variables missing.
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  167. Twinkie says:
    @D. K.
    The decedent's highly logical, complex-minded, high-IQ friend, Rachel Jeantel, was on the phone with him, when he violently attacked Mr. Zimmerman; in fact, she was apparently the one who egged him on to do so, instead of his simply entering the safety of the home in which he was staying-- which he had reached, before going back to find Mr. Zimmerman and confront him. The notion that Mr. Zimmerman, carrying a concealed weapon, would have physically assaulted a tall, athletic, younger, Black stranger, while awaiting a policeman's arrival, at any moment, is the type of scenario that only the Neanderthal-free brain could conceive.

    It doesn’t matter what the actual, you know, facts are. Most blacks will continue to believe that a WHITE something (Hispanic? What’s that? Someone from Spain? Another cracker!) gunned down a black baby.

    You can talk evidence until your face turns blue, they are not going to get it.

    Hands up, don’t shoot, you know.

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  168. Truth says:
    @FactsAreImportant

    Be honest, doesn’t it surprise you that only 30% of people killed by police are black?

    No! We make up 12% of the population. As I’ve said here multiple times, my main problem with the police murders ...
     
    You don't mention the high rates of black criminality. Why not? Aren't they relevant? I included some figures on that in the post you quote from.

    You honestly think that killings by police should be related only to a group's percentage of the population? Really? Wouldn't this require that the police randomly shoot people without regard to criminality?

    I said nothing of the sort, you’re drawing an extremely indirect corrolation.

    One group is larger.

    One group commits more crime.

    OK we have this much. Now, in which group, per capita, are their more police, in which group do arrested suspects resist arrest by; fleeing, or fighting. Which group is more likely to posses a weapon when getting arrested. Which group is more likely to do the Cliven Bundy, Waco, “the government is bad” thing? Etc. Etc. There are plenty of variables missing.

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  169. Marissa says:
    @Dahlia
    That's.... ferocious. You made another comment recently that struck me the same.

    He did not deserve that. I don't know whether the cop is the most evil person in the world, but it's still tragic what happened to Mr. Scott.

    I used to live for three years in the area where Mr. Scott was killed. His family, especially, is very similar to so many of the Blacks that I knew or worked with and they are in no way like the thugs down in the ghetto core closer to the peninsula (I lived down there briefly as well, back when it was making the top 10 most dangerous place in America; still dangerous). He was in the Coast Guard, right? His parents have been married 50 years. Working and middle class.
    Mr. Scott was no Michael Brown.

    It’s tragic that Mr. Scott made the damned fool decision to attack a cop for one of his weapons. Your soft-heartedness (and headedness) is one of the reasons women were restricted from voting. Stop thinking so emotionally and comparing violent criminals to “some people you know”. And the man was a violent criminal–the moment he attacked an officer of the law and tried to harm him. If you can’t understand that, you have no business commenting on the situation, though I do hope you get to experience a similar situation of a “family man” wrestling you to the ground for your weapon. You could use a reality-mugging.

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  170. Kylie says:
    @Bill Jones
    You are arguing the wrong point. You should argue the semantics and point out that the common usage for "proactively defend" is attack.

    No, you are not allowed to get your retaliation in first.

    I do agree to a fairly large extent with Coates larger point: The 99% are under attack by the State and its owners in very many ways and the police are the retail level distributors of the States main product: Violence


    You are arguing the wrong point. You should argue the semantics and point out that the common usage for “proactively defend” is attack.

    No, you are not allowed to get your retaliation in first.

    Oops, that is the point I was trying to make: that I don’t have the right to “proactively defend” [attack] a teen-aged black male just for coming up my front walk, even if I’m right to be suspicious of teen-aged black males generally in my area. I didn’t mean that the two black males were one and the same.

    By the way, I always enjoy your posts. Thanks for clarifying my point for me.

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  171. Merema says:
    @Art Deco
    Doesn’t Trayvon, a 16 year old, have the right to proactively defend himself from a stranger, a bulky middle aged Hispanic male following him around on a deserted residential street, especially if he knows that the stranger could follow him to his apartment where it will be just him and his y child relative?

    Zimmerman was not 'following him around', they were not on a 'residential street', and the locus was not 'deserted'.

    Martin passed by Zimmerman's parked truck while Zimmerman was on the phone to the police dispatcher; Zimmerman remarked to the dispatcher that "he's checking me out" (which in his subsequent statements he elaborated upon: Martin did a full circuit around his truck). Martin then left the street and headed up a cement walkway which connected one street, (which ran off to the right perpendicular to Zimmerman's truck) to another, which ran parallel to that street. The houses on these two streets faced opposite directions and their back doors faced a central alley which was largely grass and tree covered but had a cement walkway down the center of it. Martin went up the walkway and then, a propos of nothing in particular, ran down the alley way. His father's baby mamma's back door was about 80 yards away from where the two walkways intersected and he could have made the distance in about 12 seconds. Zimmerman got out of his truck at that point and jogged up the walkway connecting the two streets. He never caught sight of him anywhere and walked toward the street opposite while talking to the dispatcher. He concluded his call with the dispatcher, turned around and headed back toward his truck. A fully elaborate timeline of his movements was never produced, but it appears he walked back to where the two walkways intersected and loitered there for a minute or two, waiting for the police. Martin walked back up the alley (a stipulated point) and began beating him.

    1. The place where Martin attacked Zimmerman is well-attested, and can be seen from where Zimmerman's effects (key chain, etc) were dropped as recorded in crime scene photographs.

    2. The autopsy report revealed that Martin had two injuries: an abrasion on his knuckle and a gunshot wound which had been inflicted at close range. Zimmerman was covered in blood from his head being banged into the concrete (as attested in the neighbors' cell phone photos).


    I had many discussions on this sequence of events with social justice aficionados and when pressed eventually offered two sorts of arguments: (1) any scenario was plausible and presumed likely if it assumed Zimmerman's guilt, no matter how speculative or contrived, and (2) black youth have a franchise to beat up people who irritate them. The lawyers who write for National Review offered another bit of wisdom: an ordinary man walking around his own neighborhood waiting for the police is being culpably irresponsible. The writer Dan Flynn offered another: if you shoot someone beating your head into the concrete, you're a 'wuss'.

    Zimmerman's quite the canary in the coal mine. He smokes out the humbugs just by breathing in and out.

    Your “canary” just “smoked out” a middle aged Southern White guy.

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