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In "The Atlantic," Peter Beinart Accuses Trump of "Paranoia" for Invoking "The West"
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From The Atlantic (whose name, by the way, needs to be changed because it invokes the hateful, discriminatory white nationalist concept of “the West”):

The Racial and Religious Paranoia of Trump’s Warsaw Speech

When the president says being Western is the essence of America’s identity, he’s in part defining America in opposition to some of its own people.

PETER BEINART 5:17 PM ET GLOBAL

In his speech in Poland on Thursday, Donald Trump referred 10 times to “the West” and five times to “our civilization.” His white nationalist supporters will understand exactly what he means. It’s important that other Americans do, too.

The West is not a geographic term. Poland is further east than Morocco. France is further east than Haiti. Australia is further east than Egypt. Yet Poland, France, and Australia are all considered part of “The West.” Morocco, Haiti, and Egypt are not.

The West is not an ideological or economic term either. India is the world’s largest democracy. Japan is among its most economically advanced nations. No one considers them part of the West.

The West is a racial and religious term. To be considered Western, a country must be largely Christian (preferably Protestant or Catholic) and largely white. Where there is ambiguity about a country’s “Westernness,” it’s because there is ambiguity about, or tension between, these two characteristics. Is Latin America Western? Maybe. Most of its people are Christian, but by U.S. standards, they’re not clearly white. Are Albania and Bosnia Western? Maybe. By American standards, their people are white. But they are also mostly Muslim.

Steve Bannon, who along with Stephen Miller has shaped much of Trump’s civilizational thinking, has been explicit about this. In a 2014 speech, he celebrated “the long history of the Judeo-Christian West struggle against Islam” and “our forefathers” who “bequeathed to use the great institution that is the church of the West.” …

To grasp how different that rhetoric was from Trump’s, look at how the last Republican President, George W. Bush, spoke when he visited Poland. In his first presidential visit, in 2001, Bush never referred to “the West.” He did tell Poles that “We share a civilization.” But in the next sentence he insisted that “Its values are universal.” Because they are, he declared, “our trans-Atlantic community must have priorities beyond the consolidation of European peace. We must bring peace and health to Africa. …

Bush’s vision echoed Francis Fukuyama’s. … By contrast, when Trump warned Poles about forces “from the south or the east, that threaten … to erase the bonds of culture, faith, and tradition,” he was talking not about Christianity but about Christendom: a particular religious civilization that must protect itself from outsiders.

In his 2003 speech, Bush referred to democracy 13 times. Trump mentioned it once. And for good reason. Ideologically, what links the current American and Polish governments is not their commitment to democracy—both are increasingly authoritarian. It is their hostility to Muslim immigration. The European Union is suing Poland’s government for refusing to accept refugees. Among Trump’s biggest applause lines in Warsaw was, “While we will always welcome new citizens who share our values and love our people, our borders will always be closed to terrorism and extremism of any kind.” Given that Trump had linked “our values” to America and Poland’s “tradition,” “faith,” “culture,” and “identity,” it wasn’t hard to imagine whom that leaves out. …

The most shocking sentence in Trump’s speech—perhaps the most shocking sentence in any presidential speech delivered on foreign soil in my lifetime—was his claim that “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.” …

Trump’s sentence only makes sense as a statement of racial and religious paranoia. The “south” and “east” only threaten the West’s “survival” if you see non-white, non-Christian immigrants as invaders. …

Poland is largely ethnically homogeneous. So when a Polish president says that being Western is the essence of the nation’s identity, he’s mostly defining Poland in opposition to the nations to its east and south. America is racially, ethnically, and religious diverse. So when Trump says being Western is the essence of America’s identity, he’s in part defining America in opposition to some of its own people. He’s not speaking as the president of the entire United States. He’s speaking as the head of a tribe.

What should the The Atlantic change its bigoted, biased, Westophilic name to? The World-Ocean might sound good to you at first, but it discriminates against inland countries, such as Niger.

As we know, nothing is more morally mandatory than that Niger be facilitated in averaging seven children per woman, grow to 192 million by 2100, and have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).

un population 2017 niger poland

 
    []
  1. Ed says:

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization? Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    Yes. I spoke recently with a young graduate of Bennington College who was ruffled by my use of the phrase.
    , @AM

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?
     
    Despite all the hand waiving about "Judeo-Christian" society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn't end badly for Jews, but between "muh Holocaust" and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they're in full panic mode.
    , @Kevin C.

    Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.
     
    Pretty much, yes.
    , @FX Enderby
    Beinart definitely recognizes it - as a threat and an eternal enemy. An Amalek to be feared, loathed, and battled without quarter. His unhinged anti-White screeds overflow with hatred. He means it, maaan.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Western Civilization led to the Holocaust and American Jews being excluded from country clubs. That's all that you need to know.
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  2. Lot says:

    Senate GOP recruiting slow-going for 2018

    Democrats say Republicans are afraid of a political environment poisoned by an unpredictable president and a widely disliked GOP health care plan.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/06/democrats-say-republians-fear-trump-240279

    Good state-by-state article about the 2018 GOP Senate primaries. What GOP primaries should immigration patriots pool their resources?

    I would rule out Florida and Pennsylvania as too expensive.

    North Dakota, Wisconsin, Montana and Indiana look like the best prospects but, I have not heard of most of the names.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Polynikes
    Wisconsin is a decent shot if the economy remains strong. The D there, Tammy Baldwin, is a super liberal and the R will share the ticket with Gov Walkers reelection bid.

    In Indiana, the D there is one of the few remaining "blue dog" democrats and a tepidly pro-life Catholic (barely), the last I checked. But Indiana is conservative and strongly trump territory.

    Both are coin flips at this point,imo.
  3. syonredux says:

    What should the The Atlantic change its bigoted, biased, Westophilic name to?

    The Pangaea?

    Read More
  4. JohnnyD says:

    It’s funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it’s ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    That is hilarious, isn't it? If it weren't for Trump smashing Jeb like a bug, the Bush family would owe a great debt to him.
    , @AM

    It’s funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it’s ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.
     
    The neocons were for the wars, too. At any rate, George W. Bush politely kept his evangelical Christianity in the closet, to be pulled out in front only appropriate audiences. Thank God, it never impacted his thinking, speeches, or concern for being "President of the world", not even once. Of course he was the good guy. ahem
    , @anon
    Just tonight on Chris Hayes's show, he was lambasting Trump for not blindly believing what the intelligence agencies say.

    Then he cut to a clip of Trump talking about how, a few years ago, the intelligence agencies were all talking about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and how everyone believed them, but it all turned out to be a big lie.

    Two or three years ago, Chris Hayes and all of his audience would have agreed with that point. They would have loved it, in fact. But the left has completely forgotten that the Iraq war ever even happened. And it was the seminal event in the creation of the last generation of leftists. It's astonishing, really.
    , @Bukulu
    AND as long as you are no longer in office.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    George W. may be responsible for the greatest foreign policy since World War II (Pat Buchanan's assessment), but at least he's a liberal and therefore he may eventually be forgiven.
  5. kihowi says:

    “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.” …Trump’s sentence only makes sense as a statement of racial and religious paranoia.

    I see this is journalist type B: “ideas about getting displaced are paranoia”. Not to be confused with type A: “hahaha you’re totally getting displaced”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    In responding to comments at the Atlantic just the evening past I ran into a fellow who managed both in the span of a few hours via disqus. The United States is the subject/victim of a demographic wave that will wash Trumpism away and render his coalition irrelevant, but when questioned about his motives in cheering the displacement of his fellow citizens by foreigners he refused to dignify my "paranoia."

    It's all rather convenient, isn't it? Like an elaborate game of "I'm not touching youuuuuuu!" in the backseat of the family station wagon.
    , @FX Enderby
    No, no the displacement is totally real. But any White who doesn't welcome their own dispossession and ultimate annihilation is "coming from a place of FEAR" and is therefore mentally ill and suffering from paranoid delusions.
  6. have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).

    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it’s totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Read More
    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @neutral
    No, its totally fair. You will never here outlets like The Atlantic ever criticize Israel for building walls or having an immigration policy that only lets jews in. Now compare that to high population density countries like Netherlands, if any government there did exactly what Israel did with regards to immigration then they would be going straight to Godwins law.

    As for Beinart, he totally gets the chance to push of non jewish immigration into Israel, yet unsurprisingly there is deafening silence he will never write this. The reason is obvious.

    , @kihowi
    The Netherlands are about as small and densely populated as Israel and they've been the most enthusiastic self-abolishers on the continent. They live in the smallest houses in the developed world and almost completely lack nature but there's always room for extra criminals. Nobody is getting off the hook here.
    , @Stealth
    Since when did open borders globalists ever care about population density or country size?

    Israel's Muslim population is not the result of immigration (that I know of), and the Israelis don't treat them as equals.


    Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.
     
    Some might. Others would be total hypocrites about it. Most people have potatoes for brains, with smart people having the most computationally efficient potatoes. Regardless of SAT score, potato heads don't usually pick up on the fact that many of their positions are inconsistent with each other.
    , @AM

    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it’s totally unfair.[...] Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.
     
    That's nice, but for right now, what's happening is Israel has closed borders. Meanwhile, Jewish people who like organize events like "Birthright" (ha, ha, do I have one?) aka, vacation Israel and come "home" to America, tell us we can't close our borders with incoherent, self serving articles like the one I just read.

    I am all for Isreal keeping her borders closed. I'm also for us having the same things and not getting the flippin lecture about us being a "biogot" or "racist" or whatever.

    We can be allies, but first thing to happen is you need to actually be our allies and not blame us for problems inside the larger Jewish community. The resentment on that point is perfectly reasonable.
    , @res

    Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country.
     
    Hoping you mean proportionately. Otherwise you are simply wrong. At best you are just being misleading.

    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Religion
    Muslims 1,453,800 17.5%

    Estimates for France are around 4 million: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#Estimations_based_on_people.27s_geographic_origin

    About 3.3 million for the US: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

    The more appropriate comparison for the line you quoted from Steve would be current Muslim immigration rates in each country. It looks to me like most of the Muslims in Israel are born there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Birth_rate

    As far as "unfair", the Muslims have been present in quantity in Israel and environs since before Israel existed as a state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
    Hard to complain about them when they were there first, wouldn't you say? At least if you were being "fair."
    , @Opinionator
    But the Gentiles were in Palestine ("Israel") first.
    , @Anonymous
    Netenyahu, speaking to French Jews after one of the recent terrorist attacks encouraged them to move to Israel. He said they had a current capacity to take 700,000.

    So a lack of space is not the issue.

    In any case, the point isn't that anyone wants Israel to take refugees. Nobody is advocating for that. It's a matter of pointing out a glaring hypocrisy. We need to continue pointing out Jewish hypocrisy and it's unwarranted hostility towards Europe until it stops.
    , @Opinionator
    Beinart is a Zionist. So...you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).

    Beinart, an unending, staunch critic yet self-proclaimed lover of the State of Israel, is the author of The Crisis of Zionism in which he most notably calls for a boycott of settlements in the West Bank.

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-The-night-Peter-Beinart-buried-himself-436992
     

    In 2012, I wrote a book that urged American Jews to buy products from “democratic Israel,” the territory inside Israel’s original boundaries in which Jews and Palestinians live under the same law, but not “nondemocratic Israel,” the West Bank, where Jews enjoy citizenship and Palestinians live under colonial rule. So while I oppose boycotting Israel as a whole, I support boycotting Israeli settlements, which I believe threaten Israel’s moral character and its long-term survival.

    http://forward.com/opinion/365320/i-support-boycotting-settlements-should-i-be-banned-from-israel-with-my-chi/
     
    Beinart apparently only wants Aftrican and MENA refugees to go to the United States

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-Beinart-savages-Kushner-on-refugees-but-gives-Obama-a-pass-480755
    , @lavoisier
    Steve does not throw those pointed statements of fact in at the end of his essays without good reason.

    I suspect that like many others here, he is sickened by the overt hypocrisy of far too many Jews like Beinart who advocate for Western nations to be inundated with immigrants from the Third World while remaining silent on the overtly racial exclusionary immigration policies of Israel.

    If you really believe that bringing the Third World to the West is a great idea, at least be consistent and encourage Israel to start accepting their share of these migrants invading the West.

    When pundits like Beinart start to do this, I will start to believe that their support of open borders is based on a moral concern for the well-being of the poor. Until that time, I will see it as Steve perhaps sees it--rank hypocrisy likely animated by a hatred for the goyim and the West.

    , @biz
    Yeah, the inability of people here to hold two slightly different ideas in their head simultaneously is hilarious.

    Beinart is Jewish, yet also supports a partial boycott of Israel? - Does - not - compute. - Must - discard - one - of - those - two - facts...
    , @Opinionator
    Beinart wants Israel to be a "Jewish state for his grandchildren."

    www.twitter.com/ad_captandum/status/883128855959130112
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country

     

    Not by a very wide margin, though.
    Muslim %
    Israel 17%
    Marseille 25%
    Brussels 24%
    Amsterdam 14%
    France 8%
    Belgium 7%
    Sweden 5%


    Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density

     

    Good, no economist has ever said there is such a thing as too much GDP.

    Japan has a density 6/7 of Israel and has professional subway people packers, and the media produces endless articles demanding they increase immigration to solve their "demographic crisis".
    , @Alec Leamas

    First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country.
     
    And if we had license to treat our Muslims the way the Israelis treat theirs we wouldn't have any after long.
    , @ogunsiron
    I'm aware of far-left jews like Max Blumenthal who would indeed flood Israel with south-sudanese. They seem a tiny, tiny fringe, even among far-left jews.
    , @ben tillman
    "Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance."

    He does have that chance, yet he chooses to preach his poison to us.
  7. @JohnnyD
    It's funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it's ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    That is hilarious, isn’t it? If it weren’t for Trump smashing Jeb like a bug, the Bush family would owe a great debt to him.

    Read More
  8. syonredux says:

    Here’s James Fallows’ reaction:

    Is America an idea?

    MMM, I hope not. Ideas are awfully easy to change….I would like to think that America is not as ephemeral as an idea…..

    Or is it a specific “people” or ethnic group?

    Why the scare quotes around “people”?

    Our current president began his trip to Europe with a speech in Poland that minimized the role of ideals in American identity, and maximized the importance of what he called “civilization” but which boils down to ties of ethnicity and blood.

    Well, ethnic groups create ideas…..I mean, if the Founders hadn’t been WASPs, I’m pretty sure that the USA would be unrecognizable….

    But the major departure in Trump’s speech was its seeming indifference to the American idea. At least when speaking to the world, American presidents have emphasized an expanded “us.” All men are created equal. Every man is a German. Ich bin ein Berliner.

    MMM, pretty sure that we were not supposed to take that literally….

    Our realities in America have always been flawed, but our idea is in principle limitless.

    You do know, of course, that the ideal and the real ought not to be confused….How do the lines go…Ah, yes:

    “Between the idea
    And the reality
    Between the motion
    And the act
    Falls the Shadow”

    Trump gave grace-note nods to goals of liberty and free expression. Mainly, though, he spoke not about an expanded us but instead about us and them. He spoke repeatedly about our “heritage,” our “blood,” our “civilization,” our “ancestors” and “families,” our “will” and “way of life.”

    Which is to say, Trump is smart enough to realize that different cultures are, you know, different….

    Every one of these of course has perfectly noble connotations. But combined and in practice, they amount to the way the Japanese nationalists of the early 20th century onward spoke, about the purity of “we Japanese” and the need to stick together as a tribe.

    Hey, kudos for going for Imperial Japan and not Nazi Germany as a point of comparison…Although you might want to note that the Japanese still think that way today…And it seems to be working out OK…

    They rest on basic distinctions between us and them as peoples—that is, as tribes—rather than as the contending ideas and systems that presidents from our first to our 44th had emphasized.

    Maybe because Trump is the first President to really grok that the Cold War is over? That the current age is defined not by the clash of ideologies (Do any prominent thinkers in the West actually think that Islam is the way to go?) but by the clash of peoples?

    Has Donald Trump ever heard of Leni Riefenstahl? Would he recognize an allusion to Triumph of the Will?

    Dammit! And you were doing so well. I actually thought that you would make it to the end without invoking Nazi Germany in a direct fashion…..

    But there is no doubt that Steve Bannon has heard of Reifenstahl, and I’d imagine Steve Miller too.

    We’ll just not mention the fact that Miller is Jewish….

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/trump-poland-speech/532839/

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral

    first President to really grok that the Cold War is over? That the current age is defined not by the clash of ideologies
     
    I have long held the opinion that the Cold "War" was a false conflict. Just like the neocons of now would rather focus on waging war on Iran and dismantling Russian than worrying about mass immigration into Europe and North America, the Cold War was pretty much the same setup. When things like civil rights, immigration laws and blank slate ideologies were occurring, the people that worked at places such as the National Review and CIA instead focused on the easier problem of the USSR rather than much more difficult and significant problems.

    The real conflict was not East vs West, it was the North vs South conflict (that is the third world vs the first/second world). It seems clear now that the South has had near total victory, Western Europe and North America will more than likely succumb to the third world populations, even Eastern Europe I don't see much of chance for them holding out.

    , @Olorin

    Why the scare quotes around “people”?
     
    Because the American People scare the squitz out of elite hothouse orchids like James Fallows.
  9. Stealth says:

    I think Trump isn’t the one being paranoid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greg from Main
    Typical projection. We know who's really paranoid.

    (((Peter Beinart)))

    Every time.
  10. neutral says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    No, its totally fair. You will never here outlets like The Atlantic ever criticize Israel for building walls or having an immigration policy that only lets jews in. Now compare that to high population density countries like Netherlands, if any government there did exactly what Israel did with regards to immigration then they would be going straight to Godwins law.

    As for Beinart, he totally gets the chance to push of non jewish immigration into Israel, yet unsurprisingly there is deafening silence he will never write this. The reason is obvious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    I don't read the Atlantic, except when Steve Sailer posts a link, but I know for a fact that Beinart supports a partial boycott of Israel. A quick Google search shows he criticizes the Israeli wall http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.693412 Whether he's specifically called for Israel or Latvia to allow millions of African immigrants would probably take several hours of Googling.
    , @Travis
    well said
  11. kihowi says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    The Netherlands are about as small and densely populated as Israel and they’ve been the most enthusiastic self-abolishers on the continent. They live in the smallest houses in the developed world and almost completely lack nature but there’s always room for extra criminals. Nobody is getting off the hook here.

    Read More
  12. Stealth says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Since when did open borders globalists ever care about population density or country size?

    Israel’s Muslim population is not the result of immigration (that I know of), and the Israelis don’t treat them as equals.

    Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Some might. Others would be total hypocrites about it. Most people have potatoes for brains, with smart people having the most computationally efficient potatoes. Regardless of SAT score, potato heads don’t usually pick up on the fact that many of their positions are inconsistent with each other.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Israel’s Muslim population is not the result of immigration (that I know of), and the Israelis don’t treat them as equals.
     
    No, this is what a-hole Merkel and cuckified European leaders do. Israel Jews don't have a death wish. Muslims who live in Israel have the highest standard of living except for Muslims who live in oil rich Arab states.
  13. neutral says:
    @syonredux
    Here's James Fallows' reaction:

    Is America an idea?
     
    MMM, I hope not. Ideas are awfully easy to change....I would like to think that America is not as ephemeral as an idea.....

    Or is it a specific “people” or ethnic group?
     
    Why the scare quotes around "people"?

    Our current president began his trip to Europe with a speech in Poland that minimized the role of ideals in American identity, and maximized the importance of what he called “civilization” but which boils down to ties of ethnicity and blood.
     
    Well, ethnic groups create ideas.....I mean, if the Founders hadn't been WASPs, I'm pretty sure that the USA would be unrecognizable....

    But the major departure in Trump’s speech was its seeming indifference to the American idea. At least when speaking to the world, American presidents have emphasized an expanded “us.” All men are created equal. Every man is a German. Ich bin ein Berliner.
     
    MMM, pretty sure that we were not supposed to take that literally....

    Our realities in America have always been flawed, but our idea is in principle limitless.
     
    You do know, of course, that the ideal and the real ought not to be confused....How do the lines go...Ah, yes:

    "Between the idea
    And the reality
    Between the motion
    And the act
    Falls the Shadow"

    Trump gave grace-note nods to goals of liberty and free expression. Mainly, though, he spoke not about an expanded us but instead about us and them. He spoke repeatedly about our “heritage,” our “blood,” our “civilization,” our “ancestors” and “families,” our “will” and “way of life.”
     
    Which is to say, Trump is smart enough to realize that different cultures are, you know, different....

    Every one of these of course has perfectly noble connotations. But combined and in practice, they amount to the way the Japanese nationalists of the early 20th century onward spoke, about the purity of “we Japanese” and the need to stick together as a tribe.
     
    Hey, kudos for going for Imperial Japan and not Nazi Germany as a point of comparison...Although you might want to note that the Japanese still think that way today...And it seems to be working out OK...

    They rest on basic distinctions between us and them as peoples—that is, as tribes—rather than as the contending ideas and systems that presidents from our first to our 44th had emphasized.
     
    Maybe because Trump is the first President to really grok that the Cold War is over? That the current age is defined not by the clash of ideologies (Do any prominent thinkers in the West actually think that Islam is the way to go?) but by the clash of peoples?

    Has Donald Trump ever heard of Leni Riefenstahl? Would he recognize an allusion to Triumph of the Will?
     
    Dammit! And you were doing so well. I actually thought that you would make it to the end without invoking Nazi Germany in a direct fashion.....

    But there is no doubt that Steve Bannon has heard of Reifenstahl, and I’d imagine Steve Miller too.
     
    We'll just not mention the fact that Miller is Jewish....


    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/trump-poland-speech/532839/

    first President to really grok that the Cold War is over? That the current age is defined not by the clash of ideologies

    I have long held the opinion that the Cold “War” was a false conflict. Just like the neocons of now would rather focus on waging war on Iran and dismantling Russian than worrying about mass immigration into Europe and North America, the Cold War was pretty much the same setup. When things like civil rights, immigration laws and blank slate ideologies were occurring, the people that worked at places such as the National Review and CIA instead focused on the easier problem of the USSR rather than much more difficult and significant problems.

    The real conflict was not East vs West, it was the North vs South conflict (that is the third world vs the first/second world). It seems clear now that the South has had near total victory, Western Europe and North America will more than likely succumb to the third world populations, even Eastern Europe I don’t see much of chance for them holding out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kevin C.

    It seems clear now that the South has had near total victory, Western Europe and North America will more than likely succumb to the third world populations, even Eastern Europe I don’t see much of chance for them holding out.
     
    I don't see much chance either. Who was it who said something about how the White Race may need to be recreated, Jurassic Park style, in a Chinese lab?
  14. syonredux says:

    In his speech in Poland on Thursday, Donald Trump referred 10 times to “the West” and five times to “our civilization.” His white nationalist supporters will understand exactly what he means. It’s important that other Americans do, too.

    You know, the “Americans” who don’t like America…

    The West is not a geographic term.

    OK….

    The West is not an ideological or economic term either.

    OK….

    The West is a racial and religious term. To be considered Western, a country must be largely Christian (preferably Protestant or Catholic) and largely white. Where there is ambiguity about a country’s “Westernness,” it’s because there is ambiguity about, or tension between, these two characteristics. Is Latin America Western? Maybe. Most of its people are Christian, but by U.S. standards, they’re not clearly white. Are Albania and Bosnia Western? Maybe. By American standards, their people are white. But they are also mostly Muslim.

    Horrors! The West has fuzzy boundaries! Some places are kinda/sorta Western….

    Steve Bannon, who along with Stephen Miller has shaped much of Trump’s civilizational thinking, has been explicit about this. In a 2014 speech, he celebrated “the long history of the Judeo-Christian West struggle against Islam” and “our forefathers” who “bequeathed to use the great institution that is the church of the West.”

    Stupid Christians! If they had just accepted Islam, we wouldn’t have to have this conversation….Fortunately, our elites are working to overturn the Battle of Tours….What was lost on the battlefield will be won in the cradle….

    Every president from George H.W. Bush to Barack Obama emphasized the portability of America’s political and economic principles. The whole point was that democracy and capitalism were not uniquely “Western.” They were not the property of any particular religion or race but the universal aspiration of humankind.

    Which is to say, culture is just a matter of what condiments you use…Everybody who’s anybody knows that the nation-state is dead

    Bush’s vision echoed Francis Fukuyama’s. America and Europe may have been further along the road to prosperity, liberty, capitalism, and peace than other parts of the world, but all countries could follow their path.

    MMM, I thought that multiculturalism was PC….

    And the more each did, the more America and Europe would benefit. In deeply Catholic Poland, Bush sprinkled his speeches with religious references, but they were about Christianity as a universal creed, a moral imperative that knew no civilizational bounds.

    Yeah, I know. Christianity is for pleb-tier Whites….But that doesn’t mean that we can’t use aspects of it against the West….

    And for good reason. Ideologically, what links the current American and Polish governments is not their commitment to democracy—both are increasingly authoritarian. It is their hostility to Muslim immigration.

    Yeah, bigot. What kind of idiot doesn’t want Muslims in his country….

    Among Trump’s biggest applause lines in Warsaw was, “While we will always welcome new citizens who share our values and love our people, our borders will always be closed to terrorism and extremism of any kind.” Given that Trump had linked “our values” to America and Poland’s “tradition,” “faith,” “culture,” and “identity,” it wasn’t hard to imagine whom that leaves out.

    What a maroon! Only Israel gets to keep out hostile immigrants….

    The most shocking sentence in Trump’s speech—perhaps the most shocking sentence in any presidential speech delivered on foreign soil in my lifetime—was his claim that “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.” On its face, that’s absurd. Jihadist terrorists can kill people in the West, but unlike Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, they cannot topple even the weakest European government. Jihadists control no great armies. Their ideologies have limited appeal even among the Muslims they target with their propaganda. ISIS has all but lost Mosul and could lose Raqqa later this year.

    Trump’s sentence only makes sense as a statement of racial and religious paranoia. The “south” and “east” only threaten the West’s “survival” if you see non-white, non-Christian immigrants as invaders.

    And why would anyone do that?

    They only threaten the West’s “survival” if by “West” you mean white, Christian hegemony.

    MMM, how about re-writing that passage:” Muslims only threaten Israel’s “survival” if by “Israel” you mean Jewish hegemony.”

    America is racially, ethnically, and religious diverse. So when Trump says being Western is the essence of America’s identity, he’s in part defining America in opposition to some of its own people. He’s not speaking as the president of the entire United States. He’s speaking as the head of a tribe.

    Hate to break it to you, but the USA is growing increasingly tribalistic…..For example, take a look at the Democratic Party….

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  15. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it’s totally unfair.[...] Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    That’s nice, but for right now, what’s happening is Israel has closed borders. Meanwhile, Jewish people who like organize events like “Birthright” (ha, ha, do I have one?) aka, vacation Israel and come “home” to America, tell us we can’t close our borders with incoherent, self serving articles like the one I just read.

    I am all for Isreal keeping her borders closed. I’m also for us having the same things and not getting the flippin lecture about us being a “biogot” or “racist” or whatever.

    We can be allies, but first thing to happen is you need to actually be our allies and not blame us for problems inside the larger Jewish community. The resentment on that point is perfectly reasonable.

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  16. The Bush 43 Administration attempted two great projects, based on the assumption of the universality of American and REpublican values.

    “The desire for freedom resides in every human heart,” proclaimed the President. Planting a western-style democracy in the sands of Mesopotamia was a strategy that had a lot of upside–a positive example of development that would be a beacon of freedom to the rest of the Middle East. However, it turned out that the freedom that Iraqi hearts wanted was mostly the freedom to butcher thy neighbors.

    The second great project was Karl Rove’s drive to make mortgage-tax-deducting, GOP-voting homeowners of the teeming Mexican masses. And we know how that worked out.

    Topped off with the TARP rescue of Wall STreet, by 2008 it was hard to still take any part of official GOP ideology seriously. The Tea PArty was a last, desperate attempt to implement what we believed. The Tea PArty was crushed, and finally NFIB v Sebelius and Obergefell announced in no uncertain terms that the Constitution was no protection but only an excuse to do whatever the Powers That Be damn well pleased.

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  17. dr kill says:

    I liked his speech. I like this President. He is frustrating, but learning the ways of the Swamp People takes time. I like to think that he and Turtle-face have decided to turn the theatre up to 11 and then let ObamaCare crash on its own. I do wish he would restore the ObamaCare rules to the Swamp People. They deserve all the wonderful benefits that I enjoy.

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  18. @Ed
    What an odd article so he doesn't recognize the concept of Western Civilization? Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    Yes. I spoke recently with a young graduate of Bennington College who was ruffled by my use of the phrase.

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  19. @Stealth
    I think Trump isn't the one being paranoid.

    Typical projection. We know who’s really paranoid.

    (((Peter Beinart)))

    Every time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @kihowi
    Did you have to look at the name? Who else would produce such effortless emptiness? No part of that piece means anything definite once you start thinking about it, but it all flows so awfully well and it just sounds right.
  20. res says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country.

    Hoping you mean proportionately. Otherwise you are simply wrong. At best you are just being misleading.

    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Religion
    Muslims 1,453,800 17.5%

    Estimates for France are around 4 million: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#Estimations_based_on_people.27s_geographic_origin

    About 3.3 million for the US: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/

    The more appropriate comparison for the line you quoted from Steve would be current Muslim immigration rates in each country. It looks to me like most of the Muslims in Israel are born there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#Birth_rate

    As far as “unfair”, the Muslims have been present in quantity in Israel and environs since before Israel existed as a state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
    Hard to complain about them when they were there first, wouldn’t you say? At least if you were being “fair.”

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  21. AM says:
    @Ed
    What an odd article so he doesn't recognize the concept of Western Civilization? Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?

    Despite all the hand waiving about “Judeo-Christian” society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn’t end badly for Jews, but between “muh Holocaust” and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they’re in full panic mode.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    You're free to have an alt.right (I'd use a different adjective) definition of Western Civilization, but it contradicts more classical definitions.

    Western civilization traces its roots back to Europe and the Mediterranean. It is linked to the Roman Empire and with Medieval Western Christendom which emerged from the Middle Ages to experience such transformative episodes as the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, scientific revolution, and the development of liberal democracy. The civilizations of Classical Greece and Ancient Rome, and Ancient Israel[1] are considered seminal periods in Western history; cultural contributions also emerged from the pagan peoples of pre-Christian Europe, and from the civilizations in the Ancient Near East. Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization, which throughout most of its history, has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture.[2][3][4][5][1] Western civilization has spread to produce the dominant cultures of modern Americas and Oceania, and has had immense global influence in recent centuries in many ways.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Western_civilization
    , @Ed
    I'm not sure I buy this historically Western Jews strongly identified with gentile culture. German Jewry held German culture as the epitome of refinement and culture, speaking High German was seen as a mark of pride. Jews that didn't even live in Germany would often speak it better than the languages of their host countries.

    This must be a recent development among Jewry if you are correct. It also should be pointed out Jews are a constant in Western civilization from the Roman times to now.
    , @Whiskey
    Correlation is not causation. You are looking at highly feminized, pozzed, urbanized, beta male-izing Jews in media and the law as representatives of Jews as a whole. What you don't see is the schism between Jews in the urban media centers (as kids of semi-wealth parents who suport them as "respectable" occupations like the priesthood in the 19th century); and the non-urban Jews in retail, manufacturing, and other non-NYC finance/law/media.

    Urban Jews are just along for the poz ride. Their attitudes are fueled by the anti-White views of fatties, fugs, and urban sluts that make up the typical urban female population between 15-65 among Whites.

    You are not controlling for occupation, educational background, places where they live. Where they are indistinguishable from other groups of Whites. Sigh. That's the issue. Just about 90% of the poz is explained by clueless beta males virtue signaling instead of the quickest and easiest way to get the hottest women -- thug it up and be dominant. At least the Situation understood that much, and no doubt got hotter and better women than say, Ezra Klein

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism. Without the monotheism you get the lip service to polytheism and the notion that the gods don't really care about humanity, making our existence pointless and nihilistic. Without the humanism, God comes across like Allah. Both are required to make the West neither Achoo-Snackbar beheaders or Odin bloody human sacrificers.

    , @PhysicistDave
    AM wrote:

    Despite all the hand waiving about “Judeo-Christian” society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.
     
    So... that would mean that Albert Einstein, Felix Mendelssohn, Benjamin Disraeli, Milton Friedman, and, of course, Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried are not part of Western civilization?

    Perhaps your definition is a tad bit eccentric?

    Dave
    , @Art Deco
    Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it,

    That's just silly.
  22. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    But the Gentiles were in Palestine (“Israel”) first.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    I said Muslims, not "gentiles." Personally, I believe Canaanite followers of Baalshamin should have the right of return as well, in reasonable numbers.
    , @biz
    By gentiles being there first, do you mean Caananites or something? Or Neanderthal man? Because Palestinian Arabs have only been in the area since the Islamic conquests at best, and many of their lineages are far more recent than that, which is all certainly after Jews were there.
    , @anon
    Actually Jews were in Israel first. But if you are crying for PaLieStinians to have a homeland you should advocate for Jordan to give it to them. After all , Jordan occupies 78% of "palestine " .

    PS
    Out of the dozens of territorial disputes in the world , all involving more land and more killing, how many others do you spend time advocating for ?
  23. anon says: • Disclaimer

    People in Niger don’t tend to migrate. Just West Africans and Eritreans.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    The people of Niger are too poor to migrate. Migration is a middle class affair.
  24. AM says:
    @JohnnyD
    It's funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it's ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    It’s funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it’s ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    The neocons were for the wars, too. At any rate, George W. Bush politely kept his evangelical Christianity in the closet, to be pulled out in front only appropriate audiences. Thank God, it never impacted his thinking, speeches, or concern for being “President of the world”, not even once. Of course he was the good guy. ahem

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  25. @neutral
    No, its totally fair. You will never here outlets like The Atlantic ever criticize Israel for building walls or having an immigration policy that only lets jews in. Now compare that to high population density countries like Netherlands, if any government there did exactly what Israel did with regards to immigration then they would be going straight to Godwins law.

    As for Beinart, he totally gets the chance to push of non jewish immigration into Israel, yet unsurprisingly there is deafening silence he will never write this. The reason is obvious.

    I don’t read the Atlantic, except when Steve Sailer posts a link, but I know for a fact that Beinart supports a partial boycott of Israel. A quick Google search shows he criticizes the Israeli wall http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.693412 Whether he’s specifically called for Israel or Latvia to allow millions of African immigrants would probably take several hours of Googling.

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    • Replies: @hashtag whatisyourpoint

    but I know for a fact that Beinart supports a partial boycott of Israel.
     
    Fine. Then he is wrong on every part of this argument. What is your argument exactly, that every nation should be flooded with low iq africans?
  26. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Netenyahu, speaking to French Jews after one of the recent terrorist attacks encouraged them to move to Israel. He said they had a current capacity to take 700,000.

    So a lack of space is not the issue.

    In any case, the point isn’t that anyone wants Israel to take refugees. Nobody is advocating for that. It’s a matter of pointing out a glaring hypocrisy. We need to continue pointing out Jewish hypocrisy and it’s unwarranted hostility towards Europe until it stops.

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  27. @AM

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?
     
    Despite all the hand waiving about "Judeo-Christian" society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn't end badly for Jews, but between "muh Holocaust" and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they're in full panic mode.

    You’re free to have an alt.right (I’d use a different adjective) definition of Western Civilization, but it contradicts more classical definitions.

    Western civilization traces its roots back to Europe and the Mediterranean. It is linked to the Roman Empire and with Medieval Western Christendom which emerged from the Middle Ages to experience such transformative episodes as the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, scientific revolution, and the development of liberal democracy. The civilizations of Classical Greece and Ancient Rome, and Ancient Israel[1] are considered seminal periods in Western history; cultural contributions also emerged from the pagan peoples of pre-Christian Europe, and from the civilizations in the Ancient Near East. Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization, which throughout most of its history, has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture.[2][3][4][5][1] Western civilization has spread to produce the dominant cultures of modern Americas and Oceania, and has had immense global influence in recent centuries in many ways.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Western_civilization

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  28. @Opinionator
    But the Gentiles were in Palestine ("Israel") first.

    I said Muslims, not “gentiles.” Personally, I believe Canaanite followers of Baalshamin should have the right of return as well, in reasonable numbers.

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  29. L Woods says:

    Yes, some sniveling weasel on WAMU this morning referred to the speech as “alt-rightish.” Cry a little more DC.

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  30. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Beinart is a Zionist. So…you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).

    Beinart, an unending, staunch critic yet self-proclaimed lover of the State of Israel, is the author of The Crisis of Zionism in which he most notably calls for a boycott of settlements in the West Bank.

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-The-night-Peter-Beinart-buried-himself-436992

    In 2012, I wrote a book that urged American Jews to buy products from “democratic Israel,” the territory inside Israel’s original boundaries in which Jews and Palestinians live under the same law, but not “nondemocratic Israel,” the West Bank, where Jews enjoy citizenship and Palestinians live under colonial rule. So while I oppose boycotting Israel as a whole, I support boycotting Israeli settlements, which I believe threaten Israel’s moral character and its long-term survival.

    http://forward.com/opinion/365320/i-support-boycotting-settlements-should-i-be-banned-from-israel-with-my-chi/

    Beinart apparently only wants Aftrican and MENA refugees to go to the United States

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-Beinart-savages-Kushner-on-refugees-but-gives-Obama-a-pass-480755

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    I love Israel too, like I love Sweden, maybe more, and would be just thrilled to see Israel equally full of black and brown babies. An explosion of diverse demographic love!
    , @Judah Benjamin Hur

    Beinart is a Zionist. So…you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).
     
    And Al Sharpton is a great American patriot. Beinart consistently supports positions that contradict the policies of all mainstream Israeli parties. With friends like that...
  31. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Steve does not throw those pointed statements of fact in at the end of his essays without good reason.

    I suspect that like many others here, he is sickened by the overt hypocrisy of far too many Jews like Beinart who advocate for Western nations to be inundated with immigrants from the Third World while remaining silent on the overtly racial exclusionary immigration policies of Israel.

    If you really believe that bringing the Third World to the West is a great idea, at least be consistent and encourage Israel to start accepting their share of these migrants invading the West.

    When pundits like Beinart start to do this, I will start to believe that their support of open borders is based on a moral concern for the well-being of the poor. Until that time, I will see it as Steve perhaps sees it–rank hypocrisy likely animated by a hatred for the goyim and the West.

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  32. biz says:
    @Opinionator
    But the Gentiles were in Palestine ("Israel") first.

    By gentiles being there first, do you mean Caananites or something? Or Neanderthal man? Because Palestinian Arabs have only been in the area since the Islamic conquests at best, and many of their lineages are far more recent than that, which is all certainly after Jews were there.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Because Palestinian Arabs have only been in the area since the Islamic conquests at best, and many of their lineages are far more recent than that, which is all certainly after Jews were there.

    Yes, and therefore most of them have lineages there that predate the lineages of the vast majority of Jews there.
  33. biz says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Yeah, the inability of people here to hold two slightly different ideas in their head simultaneously is hilarious.

    Beinart is Jewish, yet also supports a partial boycott of Israel? – Does – not – compute. – Must – discard – one – of – those – two – facts…

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    You two seem to be the ones struggling to hold two ideas in your head simultaneously. There is no contradiction between being a jewish supremacist in Israel and supporting a boycott of goods produced by jewish colonists in the West Bank.
  34. kihowi says:
    @Greg from Main
    Typical projection. We know who's really paranoid.

    (((Peter Beinart)))

    Every time.

    Did you have to look at the name? Who else would produce such effortless emptiness? No part of that piece means anything definite once you start thinking about it, but it all flows so awfully well and it just sounds right.

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  35. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    You're free to have an alt.right (I'd use a different adjective) definition of Western Civilization, but it contradicts more classical definitions.

    Western civilization traces its roots back to Europe and the Mediterranean. It is linked to the Roman Empire and with Medieval Western Christendom which emerged from the Middle Ages to experience such transformative episodes as the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, scientific revolution, and the development of liberal democracy. The civilizations of Classical Greece and Ancient Rome, and Ancient Israel[1] are considered seminal periods in Western history; cultural contributions also emerged from the pagan peoples of pre-Christian Europe, and from the civilizations in the Ancient Near East. Christianity has played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization, which throughout most of its history, has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture.[2][3][4][5][1] Western civilization has spread to produce the dominant cultures of modern Americas and Oceania, and has had immense global influence in recent centuries in many ways.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Western_civilization

    There’s no contradiction with what you excerpted.

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  36. Clyde says:
    @Stealth
    Since when did open borders globalists ever care about population density or country size?

    Israel's Muslim population is not the result of immigration (that I know of), and the Israelis don't treat them as equals.


    Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.
     
    Some might. Others would be total hypocrites about it. Most people have potatoes for brains, with smart people having the most computationally efficient potatoes. Regardless of SAT score, potato heads don't usually pick up on the fact that many of their positions are inconsistent with each other.

    Israel’s Muslim population is not the result of immigration (that I know of), and the Israelis don’t treat them as equals.

    No, this is what a-hole Merkel and cuckified European leaders do. Israel Jews don’t have a death wish. Muslims who live in Israel have the highest standard of living except for Muslims who live in oil rich Arab states.

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    • Replies: @Stealth
    No doubt. I'm sure they're better off in Israel than in any Arab country, but they're not treated the same as Israeli Jews.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/palestinian-claimed-jew-jailed-rape-deception/story?id=11224513

    Think that would happen in present-day Germany? They would probably jail his accuser.
  37. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Opinionator
    But the Gentiles were in Palestine ("Israel") first.

    Actually Jews were in Israel first. But if you are crying for PaLieStinians to have a homeland you should advocate for Jordan to give it to them. After all , Jordan occupies 78% of “palestine ” .

    PS
    Out of the dozens of territorial disputes in the world , all involving more land and more killing, how many others do you spend time advocating for ?

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  38. AM says:

    You’re free to have an alt.right (I’d use a different adjective) definition of Western Civilization, but it contradicts more classical definitions.

    Um..no. Mine is the classical definition. “Judeo-Christian” doesn’t even pop up as a term until the late 19th century. Even through the 1950′s, using that as term would make people look at you funny, and rightly so.

    At any rate, given what you posted, the most proper term is: “Judeo-Roman-Greco-Pagan-Christianity”. I will shorten to it’s proper term: Christianity, the religion of Western Civilization.

    Again, we we can be friends and allies, but you have to act like a friend and ally and not attempt to undermine my history and my identity to do it. I am not a Judeo-Christian. shrug

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Judaism can be a part of Western Civilization (i.e. separate from Christianity per se) without Judeo-Christianity being a concept with much history/validity.

    Vox is big against it:

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-judeo-christian-fraud.html

    I'm a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).

  39. It’s like they’ve all forgotten that the way they’ve beaten the GOP in the last thirty years is by being the more normal party and portraying the GOP as the extremists.

    There’s a lot of money in being anti-Western Civ (though that may change in the medium term as deracination loses it’s luster status-wise) but there’ll never be a lot of votes in it.

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  40. scrivener3 says: • Website

    I love that movie clip. There is no Nation, there is only IBM, ITT, AT$T and Dow

    Only guess what: IBM, AT&T and Dow Chemical are little struggling companies and ITT is gone.. Google, Facebook Amazon and Netflix are giants.

    If they were so powerful and ran everything, why did they go extinct and be replaced by other companies run by other people. Other CEO’s and other executives and other stockholders get their money, fly in the private jets, date the best women.

    Capitalism is the one true meritocracy, and the only thing that wins merit is to satisfy the customer, meaning you. And when google disappoints you, it will be a memory. Unless we get more crony capitalism the way banks and health care are government subsidiaries and impervious to competition.

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  41. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Beinart wants Israel to be a “Jewish state for his grandchildren.”

    http://www.twitter.com/ad_captandum/status/883128855959130112

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    Yep, nothin like an unsourced quote with no link in a tweet picture to convince me.
  42. @biz
    Yeah, the inability of people here to hold two slightly different ideas in their head simultaneously is hilarious.

    Beinart is Jewish, yet also supports a partial boycott of Israel? - Does - not - compute. - Must - discard - one - of - those - two - facts...

    You two seem to be the ones struggling to hold two ideas in your head simultaneously. There is no contradiction between being a jewish supremacist in Israel and supporting a boycott of goods produced by jewish colonists in the West Bank.

    Read More
  43. @biz
    By gentiles being there first, do you mean Caananites or something? Or Neanderthal man? Because Palestinian Arabs have only been in the area since the Islamic conquests at best, and many of their lineages are far more recent than that, which is all certainly after Jews were there.

    Because Palestinian Arabs have only been in the area since the Islamic conquests at best, and many of their lineages are far more recent than that, which is all certainly after Jews were there.

    Yes, and therefore most of them have lineages there that predate the lineages of the vast majority of Jews there.

    Read More
  44. Ben Kurtz says: • Website

    “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive…”

    “…for with little external to constrain us, the innermost necessities in our being, these still drive us on.” (Moby-Dick, Chapter 36)

    It always comes back to character.

    Read More
  45. @kihowi

    “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.” …Trump’s sentence only makes sense as a statement of racial and religious paranoia.
     
    I see this is journalist type B: "ideas about getting displaced are paranoia". Not to be confused with type A: "hahaha you're totally getting displaced".

    In responding to comments at the Atlantic just the evening past I ran into a fellow who managed both in the span of a few hours via disqus. The United States is the subject/victim of a demographic wave that will wash Trumpism away and render his coalition irrelevant, but when questioned about his motives in cheering the displacement of his fellow citizens by foreigners he refused to dignify my “paranoia.”

    It’s all rather convenient, isn’t it? Like an elaborate game of “I’m not touching youuuuuuu!” in the backseat of the family station wagon.

    Read More
  46. Stealth says:
    @Clyde

    Israel’s Muslim population is not the result of immigration (that I know of), and the Israelis don’t treat them as equals.
     
    No, this is what a-hole Merkel and cuckified European leaders do. Israel Jews don't have a death wish. Muslims who live in Israel have the highest standard of living except for Muslims who live in oil rich Arab states.

    No doubt. I’m sure they’re better off in Israel than in any Arab country, but they’re not treated the same as Israeli Jews.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/palestinian-claimed-jew-jailed-rape-deception/story?id=11224513

    Think that would happen in present-day Germany? They would probably jail his accuser.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    Ok, that rape by deception story again. The female victim was mentally disabled. It would have been impossible to get her to testify coherently, so the prosecution had to charge the perp with this obscure offense. 'Rape by deception' is not a thing in Israel - it was trotted out for this one case.
    , @Clyde
    Would you rather be a Muslim living in Syria or in Israel proper? Or pick Libya or any other Muslim nation that does not pump oil. How about you be a Muslim in Karachi? Minority status is always relative. I used to read that Black America would be the 17th wealthiest nation.....yet they complain and complain and complain. Trying to shame whitey into always providing new money and benefits because their ancestors lived as slaves 160 years ago. Talk about glomming off what others did!

    Minority status is always relative. Just ask South African blacks if life is better now without apartheid. Now they have a loony, incompetent, self-enriching black regime oppressing them. Now the black man is their oppressor (lol)

  47. Ed says:
    @AM

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?
     
    Despite all the hand waiving about "Judeo-Christian" society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn't end badly for Jews, but between "muh Holocaust" and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they're in full panic mode.

    I’m not sure I buy this historically Western Jews strongly identified with gentile culture. German Jewry held German culture as the epitome of refinement and culture, speaking High German was seen as a mark of pride. Jews that didn’t even live in Germany would often speak it better than the languages of their host countries.

    This must be a recent development among Jewry if you are correct. It also should be pointed out Jews are a constant in Western civilization from the Roman times to now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    from https://infogalactic.com/info/Haskalah :

    The Haskala's main motivation and aim was the modernization of the Jews, in accordance with the rationalistic and liberal ideals of 18th and 19th Centuries. Members of the movement sought to acquaint their people with European culture, have them adopt the vernacular language of their lands, and integrate them into larger society. They opposed Jewish reclusiveness and self-segregation
     
    Before the late 18th century, jews were in no way part of the mainstream of western society and they probably didn't wish to be a part of it. It took a long time for European civilization to become compelling enough to them.
  48. Ed says:
    @anon
    People in Niger don't tend to migrate. Just West Africans and Eritreans.

    The people of Niger are too poor to migrate. Migration is a middle class affair.

    Read More
  49. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country

    Not by a very wide margin, though.
    Muslim %
    Israel 17%
    Marseille 25%
    Brussels 24%
    Amsterdam 14%
    France 8%
    Belgium 7%
    Sweden 5%

    Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density

    Good, no economist has ever said there is such a thing as too much GDP.

    Japan has a density 6/7 of Israel and has professional subway people packers, and the media produces endless articles demanding they increase immigration to solve their “demographic crisis”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    You can't really compare percentages in the whole country of Israel to those for certain individual cities in other countries.
  50. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    The simple fact is that people like Peter Beinart belong to a subculture that, ironically, defines itself as the mainstream culture. Members of this subculture have congregated around our cultural and political choke-points and finance themselves by extorting and bullying the rest of us as we try to get on with our lives. The best way to weaken them is to stop accepting their claims to be the guardians of our civilization; they’re just strategically located shakedown artists.

    The proof of my claim is that article by Beinart and the dozens of similar ones written since Trump nominally became “the leader of the free world”. For them, the POTUS is the head of the West, and the West is the best, unless the POTUS is Trump and Trump refuses to pay the shakedown artists their cut and treat them with the respect they feel they deserve. Their West is a phony West. We’re the real West and Trump is one of its many imperfect leaders. The “mainstream” political class is merely a sour little subculture within our West.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Cagey Beast wrote:

    Their West is a phony West. We’re the real West and Trump is one of its many imperfect leaders. The “mainstream” political class is merely a sour little subculture within our West.
     
    Well... based on the popular vote in the recent French, British, and US elections, I am afraid that what you refer to as "our West" is now a minority in the West.

    For better or worse, Beinart and his allies seem able to poll at least fifty percent everywhere west of Poland and Czechia.
  51. @Ben Kurtz
    "The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive..."

    "...for with little external to constrain us, the innermost necessities in our being, these still drive us on." (Moby-Dick, Chapter 36)

    It always comes back to character.

    I don’t see the connection.

    Read More
  52. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country.

    And if we had license to treat our Muslims the way the Israelis treat theirs we wouldn’t have any after long.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    You mean we should give them universal health care, generous social welfare benefits, and heavily subsidized university like Israel does?
    , @anon
    Sound policy. I say we move to adopt it.
  53. biz says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country

     

    Not by a very wide margin, though.
    Muslim %
    Israel 17%
    Marseille 25%
    Brussels 24%
    Amsterdam 14%
    France 8%
    Belgium 7%
    Sweden 5%


    Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density

     

    Good, no economist has ever said there is such a thing as too much GDP.

    Japan has a density 6/7 of Israel and has professional subway people packers, and the media produces endless articles demanding they increase immigration to solve their "demographic crisis".

    You can’t really compare percentages in the whole country of Israel to those for certain individual cities in other countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    What percentage of Tel Aviv is muslim? Wikipedia says it's 1%..
  54. biz says:
    @Opinionator
    Beinart wants Israel to be a "Jewish state for his grandchildren."

    www.twitter.com/ad_captandum/status/883128855959130112

    Yep, nothin like an unsourced quote with no link in a tweet picture to convince me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    http://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/249608/

    You owe Steve a donation.
  55. biz says:
    @Alec Leamas

    First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country.
     
    And if we had license to treat our Muslims the way the Israelis treat theirs we wouldn't have any after long.

    You mean we should give them universal health care, generous social welfare benefits, and heavily subsidized university like Israel does?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    I'm thinking more like rousting young Muslim men and giving them the business whenever the opportunity arises to let them know who is in charge.

    It's interesting that you take my comment as an unmitigated criticism rather than a statement of admiration.
  56. @AM

    You’re free to have an alt.right (I’d use a different adjective) definition of Western Civilization, but it contradicts more classical definitions.
     
    Um..no. Mine is the classical definition. "Judeo-Christian" doesn't even pop up as a term until the late 19th century. Even through the 1950's, using that as term would make people look at you funny, and rightly so.

    At any rate, given what you posted, the most proper term is: "Judeo-Roman-Greco-Pagan-Christianity". I will shorten to it's proper term: Christianity, the religion of Western Civilization.

    Again, we we can be friends and allies, but you have to act like a friend and ally and not attempt to undermine my history and my identity to do it. I am not a Judeo-Christian. shrug

    Judaism can be a part of Western Civilization (i.e. separate from Christianity per se) without Judeo-Christianity being a concept with much history/validity.

    Vox is big against it:

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-judeo-christian-fraud.html

    I’m a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    I’m a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).
     
    Believe it or not, I am generally too. It is rather impossible to go to church and avoid Judaism. I also suspect the vast majority of practicing Jews are an asset to most societies. :)

    It's mostly personal failing - I tend argue a lot. One of the reasons that I'm not hanging out The Daily Stormer is I'd be forever reacting to that sort of "low rent" antisemitism that knee jerk blames the personal problems on them.
    , @Brutusale
    Uh, Vox is some crappy lefty web outpost that grew out of an unholy union of the Daily Kos and sports blogs.

    Vox Day is the pen name of an alt-right game designer and blogger that defeated the moonbat idiots in the SFWA who were trying to hijack the Hugo Awards.

  57. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Alec Leamas

    First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country.
     
    And if we had license to treat our Muslims the way the Israelis treat theirs we wouldn't have any after long.

    Sound policy. I say we move to adopt it.

    Read More
  58. Polynikes says:
    @Lot
    Senate GOP recruiting slow-going for 2018

    Democrats say Republicans are afraid of a political environment poisoned by an unpredictable president and a widely disliked GOP health care plan.


    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/06/democrats-say-republians-fear-trump-240279

    Good state-by-state article about the 2018 GOP Senate primaries. What GOP primaries should immigration patriots pool their resources?

    I would rule out Florida and Pennsylvania as too expensive.

    North Dakota, Wisconsin, Montana and Indiana look like the best prospects but, I have not heard of most of the names.

    Wisconsin is a decent shot if the economy remains strong. The D there, Tammy Baldwin, is a super liberal and the R will share the ticket with Gov Walkers reelection bid.

    In Indiana, the D there is one of the few remaining “blue dog” democrats and a tepidly pro-life Catholic (barely), the last I checked. But Indiana is conservative and strongly trump territory.

    Both are coin flips at this point,imo.

    Read More
  59. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnnyD
    It's funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it's ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    Just tonight on Chris Hayes’s show, he was lambasting Trump for not blindly believing what the intelligence agencies say.

    Then he cut to a clip of Trump talking about how, a few years ago, the intelligence agencies were all talking about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and how everyone believed them, but it all turned out to be a big lie.

    Two or three years ago, Chris Hayes and all of his audience would have agreed with that point. They would have loved it, in fact. But the left has completely forgotten that the Iraq war ever even happened. And it was the seminal event in the creation of the last generation of leftists. It’s astonishing, really.

    Read More
  60. Whiskey says: • Website
    @AM

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?
     
    Despite all the hand waiving about "Judeo-Christian" society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn't end badly for Jews, but between "muh Holocaust" and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they're in full panic mode.

    Correlation is not causation. You are looking at highly feminized, pozzed, urbanized, beta male-izing Jews in media and the law as representatives of Jews as a whole. What you don’t see is the schism between Jews in the urban media centers (as kids of semi-wealth parents who suport them as “respectable” occupations like the priesthood in the 19th century); and the non-urban Jews in retail, manufacturing, and other non-NYC finance/law/media.

    Urban Jews are just along for the poz ride. Their attitudes are fueled by the anti-White views of fatties, fugs, and urban sluts that make up the typical urban female population between 15-65 among Whites.

    You are not controlling for occupation, educational background, places where they live. Where they are indistinguishable from other groups of Whites. Sigh. That’s the issue. Just about 90% of the poz is explained by clueless beta males virtue signaling instead of the quickest and easiest way to get the hottest women — thug it up and be dominant. At least the Situation understood that much, and no doubt got hotter and better women than say, Ezra Klein

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism. Without the monotheism you get the lip service to polytheism and the notion that the gods don’t really care about humanity, making our existence pointless and nihilistic. Without the humanism, God comes across like Allah. Both are required to make the West neither Achoo-Snackbar beheaders or Odin bloody human sacrificers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism. Without the monotheism you get the lip service to polytheism and the notion that the gods don’t really care about humanity, making our existence pointless and nihilistic. Without the humanism, God comes across like Allah. Both are required to make the West neither Achoo-Snackbar beheaders or Odin bloody human sacrificers.
     
    Sometimes Whiskey says the darndest things.

    http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html
    , @AM

    You are looking at highly feminized, pozzed, urbanized, beta male-izing Jews in media and the law as representatives of Jews as a whole.
     
    Um..no. Most of my posts try to make it clear that Jews are not monolith. That one did not, but it actually was referring to Jews in the media so it's fine.

    Their attitudes are fueled by the anti-White views of fatties, fugs, and urban sluts that make up the typical urban female population between 15-65 among Whites.
     
    Problems getting a date? Blaming white women for our problems is about as productive as blaming Jews for our problems.

    beta males virtue signaling instead of the quickest and easiest way to get the hottest women — thug it up and be dominant.
     
    That's fabulous way to get a date at bar and generally attract women who, when confronted with sacrifice and difficulties of child rearing, take your credit card and go shopping.

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism.
     
    It's also more than that but someone else has that covered. :)
  61. J1234 says:

    The West is a racial and religious term.

    Wow. I’ve always said that one of the main differences between the character of the Right and the character of the Left is that those on the Right are generally ashamed of their ignorance, while those on the Left are generally proud of their ignorance. But that statement takes that idea to a whole new level.

    Read More
  62. Remember back in the 90s at Stanford, “Hey, hey, ho, ho, Western Civ has got to go.”

    Read More
  63. biz says:
    @Stealth
    No doubt. I'm sure they're better off in Israel than in any Arab country, but they're not treated the same as Israeli Jews.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/palestinian-claimed-jew-jailed-rape-deception/story?id=11224513

    Think that would happen in present-day Germany? They would probably jail his accuser.

    Ok, that rape by deception story again. The female victim was mentally disabled. It would have been impossible to get her to testify coherently, so the prosecution had to charge the perp with this obscure offense. ‘Rape by deception’ is not a thing in Israel – it was trotted out for this one case.

    Read More
  64. ogunsiron says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    I’m aware of far-left jews like Max Blumenthal who would indeed flood Israel with south-sudanese. They seem a tiny, tiny fringe, even among far-left jews.

    Read More
  65. Luke Lea says:

    Our elites have completely lost touch with Western civilization. Let us call them what they are: the enemy within.

    Read More
  66. ogunsiron says:
    @Ed
    I'm not sure I buy this historically Western Jews strongly identified with gentile culture. German Jewry held German culture as the epitome of refinement and culture, speaking High German was seen as a mark of pride. Jews that didn't even live in Germany would often speak it better than the languages of their host countries.

    This must be a recent development among Jewry if you are correct. It also should be pointed out Jews are a constant in Western civilization from the Roman times to now.

    from https://infogalactic.com/info/Haskalah :

    The Haskala’s main motivation and aim was the modernization of the Jews, in accordance with the rationalistic and liberal ideals of 18th and 19th Centuries. Members of the movement sought to acquaint their people with European culture, have them adopt the vernacular language of their lands, and integrate them into larger society. They opposed Jewish reclusiveness and self-segregation

    Before the late 18th century, jews were in no way part of the mainstream of western society and they probably didn’t wish to be a part of it. It took a long time for European civilization to become compelling enough to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Even then, they moved in increasingly "enlightened" and post-Christian circles, which they helped shape.
  67. Clyde says:
    @Stealth
    No doubt. I'm sure they're better off in Israel than in any Arab country, but they're not treated the same as Israeli Jews.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/palestinian-claimed-jew-jailed-rape-deception/story?id=11224513

    Think that would happen in present-day Germany? They would probably jail his accuser.

    Would you rather be a Muslim living in Syria or in Israel proper? Or pick Libya or any other Muslim nation that does not pump oil. How about you be a Muslim in Karachi? Minority status is always relative. I used to read that Black America would be the 17th wealthiest nation…..yet they complain and complain and complain. Trying to shame whitey into always providing new money and benefits because their ancestors lived as slaves 160 years ago. Talk about glomming off what others did!

    Minority status is always relative. Just ask South African blacks if life is better now without apartheid. Now they have a loony, incompetent, self-enriching black regime oppressing them. Now the black man is their oppressor (lol)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    Depends on whether you want to live in the House of Peace or the House of War, doesn't it?
  68. Bukulu says:
    @JohnnyD
    It's funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it's ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    AND as long as you are no longer in office.

    Read More
  69. eah says:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Walker - Most beautiful man ever...
    "I've never felt more Jewish and less American".
    Do ligt der hunt bagrobn.
  70. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @ogunsiron
    from https://infogalactic.com/info/Haskalah :

    The Haskala's main motivation and aim was the modernization of the Jews, in accordance with the rationalistic and liberal ideals of 18th and 19th Centuries. Members of the movement sought to acquaint their people with European culture, have them adopt the vernacular language of their lands, and integrate them into larger society. They opposed Jewish reclusiveness and self-segregation
     
    Before the late 18th century, jews were in no way part of the mainstream of western society and they probably didn't wish to be a part of it. It took a long time for European civilization to become compelling enough to them.

    Even then, they moved in increasingly “enlightened” and post-Christian circles, which they helped shape.

    Read More
  71. Hugh says:

    What should the The Atlantic change its bigoted, biased, Westophilic name to?

    The Dead Sea

    Read More
  72. Kevin C. says:
    @Ed
    What an odd article so he doesn't recognize the concept of Western Civilization? Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    Pretty much, yes.

    Read More
  73. Pericles says:
    @Opinionator
    Beinart is a Zionist. So...you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).

    Beinart, an unending, staunch critic yet self-proclaimed lover of the State of Israel, is the author of The Crisis of Zionism in which he most notably calls for a boycott of settlements in the West Bank.

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-The-night-Peter-Beinart-buried-himself-436992
     

    In 2012, I wrote a book that urged American Jews to buy products from “democratic Israel,” the territory inside Israel’s original boundaries in which Jews and Palestinians live under the same law, but not “nondemocratic Israel,” the West Bank, where Jews enjoy citizenship and Palestinians live under colonial rule. So while I oppose boycotting Israel as a whole, I support boycotting Israeli settlements, which I believe threaten Israel’s moral character and its long-term survival.

    http://forward.com/opinion/365320/i-support-boycotting-settlements-should-i-be-banned-from-israel-with-my-chi/
     
    Beinart apparently only wants Aftrican and MENA refugees to go to the United States

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-Beinart-savages-Kushner-on-refugees-but-gives-Obama-a-pass-480755

    I love Israel too, like I love Sweden, maybe more, and would be just thrilled to see Israel equally full of black and brown babies. An explosion of diverse demographic love!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.

    To be clear, though, I don't care if anyone is black or brown. In Israel, America, or Europe. I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you're going to make major policy errors.
  74. Pericles says:
    @Clyde
    Would you rather be a Muslim living in Syria or in Israel proper? Or pick Libya or any other Muslim nation that does not pump oil. How about you be a Muslim in Karachi? Minority status is always relative. I used to read that Black America would be the 17th wealthiest nation.....yet they complain and complain and complain. Trying to shame whitey into always providing new money and benefits because their ancestors lived as slaves 160 years ago. Talk about glomming off what others did!

    Minority status is always relative. Just ask South African blacks if life is better now without apartheid. Now they have a loony, incompetent, self-enriching black regime oppressing them. Now the black man is their oppressor (lol)

    Depends on whether you want to live in the House of Peace or the House of War, doesn’t it?

    Read More
  75. Kevin C. says:
    @neutral

    first President to really grok that the Cold War is over? That the current age is defined not by the clash of ideologies
     
    I have long held the opinion that the Cold "War" was a false conflict. Just like the neocons of now would rather focus on waging war on Iran and dismantling Russian than worrying about mass immigration into Europe and North America, the Cold War was pretty much the same setup. When things like civil rights, immigration laws and blank slate ideologies were occurring, the people that worked at places such as the National Review and CIA instead focused on the easier problem of the USSR rather than much more difficult and significant problems.

    The real conflict was not East vs West, it was the North vs South conflict (that is the third world vs the first/second world). It seems clear now that the South has had near total victory, Western Europe and North America will more than likely succumb to the third world populations, even Eastern Europe I don't see much of chance for them holding out.

    It seems clear now that the South has had near total victory, Western Europe and North America will more than likely succumb to the third world populations, even Eastern Europe I don’t see much of chance for them holding out.

    I don’t see much chance either. Who was it who said something about how the White Race may need to be recreated, Jurassic Park style, in a Chinese lab?

    Read More
    • Replies: @lavoisier
    Not going to happen.

    When things go bad, and I mean bad like starvation and societal breakdown, events that are inevitable if reasonable policies are not put into place to stem the tide of Third World migration to the West, even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive. When that happens it will not be safe to be a Muslim or African living in Sweden or Germany.

    It does not have to happen this way. But it will unless reasonable steps are taken NOW to prevent white dispossession of their own lands and cultures.

    The only thing stopping the West from putting an end to this suicidal foolishness of embracing the Third World as their adopted children are the braindead white liberals. They are the enemy of the West.

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.
  76. Pericles says:

    The Atlantic just makes one think of slave trading, ugh. Get a more progressive name.

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  77. Clyde says:

    Their alleged house of peace, Dar Al Salam. When they mass migrate into Sweden and Germany they make these nations into Houses of War. Did you know that year zero in the Islamic calendar is Mohamed’s hijra (immigration) to Medina? Today is year 1438 for them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar

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  78. @eah
    https://twitter.com/PeterBeinart/status/796183834396127232

    “I’ve never felt more Jewish and less American”.
    Do ligt der hunt bagrobn.

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  79. @AM

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?
     
    Despite all the hand waiving about "Judeo-Christian" society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn't end badly for Jews, but between "muh Holocaust" and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they're in full panic mode.

    AM wrote:

    Despite all the hand waiving about “Judeo-Christian” society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    So… that would mean that Albert Einstein, Felix Mendelssohn, Benjamin Disraeli, Milton Friedman, and, of course, Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried are not part of Western civilization?

    Perhaps your definition is a tad bit eccentric?

    Dave

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    • Replies: @neutral
    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?
    , @AM

    Perhaps your definition is a tad bit eccentric?
     
    No. That would be your approach to my argument.

    I am looking at historical and modern group philosophies and achievements. Your response is to pick out a few modern Jews and 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge' imply I'm a bigot. So I guess that isn't so eccentric. :)

    Christians are responsible for the modern university system, from which "Physicist Dave" could learn and expand a body of knowledge. Jews have excelled within that system but they did not invent nor are particularly interested historically in supporting them. "Complete/spontaneous" Jewish thought on the matter sends their males to school forever and studies only the Talmud.

    It's great that Jews do well within Christian societies and framework. Their existence in no way negates my point that the West Civilization is Christian framework, not "Judeo-Christian", whatever the h*ll that means.
  80. @scrivener3
    I love that movie clip. There is no Nation, there is only IBM, ITT, AT$T and Dow

    Only guess what: IBM, AT&T and Dow Chemical are little struggling companies and ITT is gone.. Google, Facebook Amazon and Netflix are giants.

    If they were so powerful and ran everything, why did they go extinct and be replaced by other companies run by other people. Other CEO's and other executives and other stockholders get their money, fly in the private jets, date the best women.

    Capitalism is the one true meritocracy, and the only thing that wins merit is to satisfy the customer, meaning you. And when google disappoints you, it will be a memory. Unless we get more crony capitalism the way banks and health care are government subsidiaries and impervious to competition.

    They don’t date the best women

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  81. @Ed
    What an odd article so he doesn't recognize the concept of Western Civilization? Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    Beinart definitely recognizes it – as a threat and an eternal enemy. An Amalek to be feared, loathed, and battled without quarter. His unhinged anti-White screeds overflow with hatred. He means it, maaan.

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  82. @kihowi

    “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.” …Trump’s sentence only makes sense as a statement of racial and religious paranoia.
     
    I see this is journalist type B: "ideas about getting displaced are paranoia". Not to be confused with type A: "hahaha you're totally getting displaced".

    No, no the displacement is totally real. But any White who doesn’t welcome their own dispossession and ultimate annihilation is “coming from a place of FEAR” and is therefore mentally ill and suffering from paranoid delusions.

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  83. neutral says:
    @PhysicistDave
    AM wrote:

    Despite all the hand waiving about “Judeo-Christian” society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.
     
    So... that would mean that Albert Einstein, Felix Mendelssohn, Benjamin Disraeli, Milton Friedman, and, of course, Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried are not part of Western civilization?

    Perhaps your definition is a tad bit eccentric?

    Dave

    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Jews are co-creators of Western Civilization. You can act like Apple's BOD which kicked Steve Jobs out of the company, but it's a dumb idea.

    In fairness, the circle of Jewish Civilization extends beyond Western Civilization, whereas Anglo Civilization, for example, arguably fits entirely in Western Civilization.
    , @PhysicistDave
    neutral wrote to me:

    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that.
     
    Well... the ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews were born in the West for an awfully long time!

    In fact, for as long as there has been a "West."

    And, the Poles, which this discussion is about, were actually not part of the "West" initially (i.e., in Charlemagne's time): remember first Charlemagne had to "convert" the Saxons and all that. Yet, I take it that you accept the Johnny-Come-Lately Poles as true members of the West. (Let me make clear that I myself do indeed accept Poles as Westerners, just as I accept Jews as Westerners.)

    neutral also wrote:

    Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?
     
    Well... my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.

    No doubt that makes me a heretic double-plus bad.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a "Thoreauist" rather than as "alt-Right."
    , @Art Deco
    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    Strange as it may seem to you, there's been an indigenous Jewish population in occidental countries since the High Middle Ages.
  84. @biz
    You mean we should give them universal health care, generous social welfare benefits, and heavily subsidized university like Israel does?

    I’m thinking more like rousting young Muslim men and giving them the business whenever the opportunity arises to let them know who is in charge.

    It’s interesting that you take my comment as an unmitigated criticism rather than a statement of admiration.

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  85. @JohnnyD
    It's funny how George W. Bush is now a good guy. I guess it's ok to start disastrous wars, as long as you support amnesty for illegals.

    George W. may be responsible for the greatest foreign policy since World War II (Pat Buchanan’s assessment), but at least he’s a liberal and therefore he may eventually be forgiven.

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  86. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @biz
    You can't really compare percentages in the whole country of Israel to those for certain individual cities in other countries.

    What percentage of Tel Aviv is muslim? Wikipedia says it’s 1%..

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  87. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    I don't read the Atlantic, except when Steve Sailer posts a link, but I know for a fact that Beinart supports a partial boycott of Israel. A quick Google search shows he criticizes the Israeli wall http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.693412 Whether he's specifically called for Israel or Latvia to allow millions of African immigrants would probably take several hours of Googling.

    but I know for a fact that Beinart supports a partial boycott of Israel.

    Fine. Then he is wrong on every part of this argument. What is your argument exactly, that every nation should be flooded with low iq africans?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    It's that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration to Europe or the US. The primary exception is exactly the same for Christians, rich businessmen who want the cheap labor.
  88. Travis says:
    @neutral
    No, its totally fair. You will never here outlets like The Atlantic ever criticize Israel for building walls or having an immigration policy that only lets jews in. Now compare that to high population density countries like Netherlands, if any government there did exactly what Israel did with regards to immigration then they would be going straight to Godwins law.

    As for Beinart, he totally gets the chance to push of non jewish immigration into Israel, yet unsurprisingly there is deafening silence he will never write this. The reason is obvious.

    well said

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  89. El Dato says:

    America is racially, ethnically, and religious diverse. So when Trump says being Western is the essence of America’s identity, he’s in part defining America in opposition to some of its own people. He’s not speaking as the president of the entire United States. He’s speaking as the head of a tribe.

    It’s rather scandalous when “being Western” is now declared as internal USA tribalism. Anything goes, then? Let’s have fun!

    Sidenote: Apparently the Warsaw welcoming crowds were bused in. What do Poleas REALLY think?

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  90. @Harry Baldwin
    George W. may be responsible for the greatest foreign policy since World War II (Pat Buchanan's assessment), but at least he's a liberal and therefore he may eventually be forgiven.

    oops–greatest foreign policy disaster

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  91. @Ed
    What an odd article so he doesn't recognize the concept of Western Civilization? Is such a phrase now a loaded term, automatically racist.

    Western Civilization led to the Holocaust and American Jews being excluded from country clubs. That’s all that you need to know.

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  92. THE AMERICAN EMPIRE IS RUN BY LIZZIE BORDEN WASPs & LEOPOLD AND LOEB JEWS

    Peter Beinart is an anti-White Jew; but he makes a good point that must be stressed again and again.

    Peter Beinart:

    Bush’s vision echoed Francis Fukuyama’s. America and Europe may have been further along the road to prosperity, liberty, capitalism, and peace than other parts of the world, but all countries could follow their path. And the more each did, the more America and Europe would benefit. In deeply Catholic Poland, Bush sprinkled his speeches with religious references, but they were about Christianity as a universal creed, a moral imperative that knew no civilizational bounds. By contrast, when Trump warned Poles about forces “from the south or the east, that threaten … to erase the bonds of culture, faith, and tradition,” he was talking not about Christianity but about Christendom: a particular religious civilization that must protect itself from outsiders.

    “…not about Christianity but about Christendom: a particular religious civilization that must protect itself from outsiders.” — Peter Beinart

    George W. Bush is a Lizzie Borden WASP and Peter Beinart is a Leopold and Loeb Jew.

    Steven Miller is a patriotic American Jew. Miller wrote President Trump’s Poland speech.

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  93. Altai says:

    Huh? I’m always hearing from the same people about ‘the West’ and what it should do and believe. They’re often really animated that ‘the West’ should confront Iran and Putin.

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  94. AM says:
    @Desiderius
    Judaism can be a part of Western Civilization (i.e. separate from Christianity per se) without Judeo-Christianity being a concept with much history/validity.

    Vox is big against it:

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-judeo-christian-fraud.html

    I'm a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).

    I’m a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).

    Believe it or not, I am generally too. It is rather impossible to go to church and avoid Judaism. I also suspect the vast majority of practicing Jews are an asset to most societies. :)

    It’s mostly personal failing – I tend argue a lot. One of the reasons that I’m not hanging out The Daily Stormer is I’d be forever reacting to that sort of “low rent” antisemitism that knee jerk blames the personal problems on them.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    We can worry about the Stormer once the people/problems (some of the failings are our own) destroying our civilization are dealt with.
  95. AM says:
    @PhysicistDave
    AM wrote:

    Despite all the hand waiving about “Judeo-Christian” society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.
     
    So... that would mean that Albert Einstein, Felix Mendelssohn, Benjamin Disraeli, Milton Friedman, and, of course, Ron Unz and Paul Gottfried are not part of Western civilization?

    Perhaps your definition is a tad bit eccentric?

    Dave

    Perhaps your definition is a tad bit eccentric?

    No. That would be your approach to my argument.

    I am looking at historical and modern group philosophies and achievements. Your response is to pick out a few modern Jews and ‘wink, wink, nudge, nudge’ imply I’m a bigot. So I guess that isn’t so eccentric. :)

    Christians are responsible for the modern university system, from which “Physicist Dave” could learn and expand a body of knowledge. Jews have excelled within that system but they did not invent nor are particularly interested historically in supporting them. “Complete/spontaneous” Jewish thought on the matter sends their males to school forever and studies only the Talmud.

    It’s great that Jews do well within Christian societies and framework. Their existence in no way negates my point that the West Civilization is Christian framework, not “Judeo-Christian”, whatever the h*ll that means.

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  96. @Whiskey
    Correlation is not causation. You are looking at highly feminized, pozzed, urbanized, beta male-izing Jews in media and the law as representatives of Jews as a whole. What you don't see is the schism between Jews in the urban media centers (as kids of semi-wealth parents who suport them as "respectable" occupations like the priesthood in the 19th century); and the non-urban Jews in retail, manufacturing, and other non-NYC finance/law/media.

    Urban Jews are just along for the poz ride. Their attitudes are fueled by the anti-White views of fatties, fugs, and urban sluts that make up the typical urban female population between 15-65 among Whites.

    You are not controlling for occupation, educational background, places where they live. Where they are indistinguishable from other groups of Whites. Sigh. That's the issue. Just about 90% of the poz is explained by clueless beta males virtue signaling instead of the quickest and easiest way to get the hottest women -- thug it up and be dominant. At least the Situation understood that much, and no doubt got hotter and better women than say, Ezra Klein

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism. Without the monotheism you get the lip service to polytheism and the notion that the gods don't really care about humanity, making our existence pointless and nihilistic. Without the humanism, God comes across like Allah. Both are required to make the West neither Achoo-Snackbar beheaders or Odin bloody human sacrificers.

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism. Without the monotheism you get the lip service to polytheism and the notion that the gods don’t really care about humanity, making our existence pointless and nihilistic. Without the humanism, God comes across like Allah. Both are required to make the West neither Achoo-Snackbar beheaders or Odin bloody human sacrificers.

    Sometimes Whiskey says the darndest things.

    http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html

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  97. AM says:
    @Whiskey
    Correlation is not causation. You are looking at highly feminized, pozzed, urbanized, beta male-izing Jews in media and the law as representatives of Jews as a whole. What you don't see is the schism between Jews in the urban media centers (as kids of semi-wealth parents who suport them as "respectable" occupations like the priesthood in the 19th century); and the non-urban Jews in retail, manufacturing, and other non-NYC finance/law/media.

    Urban Jews are just along for the poz ride. Their attitudes are fueled by the anti-White views of fatties, fugs, and urban sluts that make up the typical urban female population between 15-65 among Whites.

    You are not controlling for occupation, educational background, places where they live. Where they are indistinguishable from other groups of Whites. Sigh. That's the issue. Just about 90% of the poz is explained by clueless beta males virtue signaling instead of the quickest and easiest way to get the hottest women -- thug it up and be dominant. At least the Situation understood that much, and no doubt got hotter and better women than say, Ezra Klein

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism. Without the monotheism you get the lip service to polytheism and the notion that the gods don't really care about humanity, making our existence pointless and nihilistic. Without the humanism, God comes across like Allah. Both are required to make the West neither Achoo-Snackbar beheaders or Odin bloody human sacrificers.

    You are looking at highly feminized, pozzed, urbanized, beta male-izing Jews in media and the law as representatives of Jews as a whole.

    Um..no. Most of my posts try to make it clear that Jews are not monolith. That one did not, but it actually was referring to Jews in the media so it’s fine.

    Their attitudes are fueled by the anti-White views of fatties, fugs, and urban sluts that make up the typical urban female population between 15-65 among Whites.

    Problems getting a date? Blaming white women for our problems is about as productive as blaming Jews for our problems.

    beta males virtue signaling instead of the quickest and easiest way to get the hottest women — thug it up and be dominant.

    That’s fabulous way to get a date at bar and generally attract women who, when confronted with sacrifice and difficulties of child rearing, take your credit card and go shopping.

    Let me add, Christianity itself is a marriage of Jewish Monotheism, with Greek Humanism.

    It’s also more than that but someone else has that covered. :)

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  98. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “The most shocking sentence in Trump’s speech—perhaps the most shocking sentence in any presidential speech delivered on foreign soil in my lifetime—was his claim that “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.” … ”

    No sentence better illustrates the disconnect between the likes of people like Peter Beinert and the rest of us pilgrims.

    The Atlantic used to be a pretty good magazine. What the hell happened?

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  99. @hashtag whatisyourpoint

    but I know for a fact that Beinart supports a partial boycott of Israel.
     
    Fine. Then he is wrong on every part of this argument. What is your argument exactly, that every nation should be flooded with low iq africans?

    It’s that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration to Europe or the US. The primary exception is exactly the same for Christians, rich businessmen who want the cheap labor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    It’s that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration to Europe or the US.
     
    You don't want me to dig up a list of pro-Israel Jews who practically break out in hives when the idea of a US border is mentioned, do you? Because most right wing Jews will give you the obligatory moralizing about the Founding Fathers who never really existed when the subject comes up.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    It’s that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration

     

    The closed borders for Israel hypocricy argument must be seen as a major threat, because literally every single time it is mentioned someone comes in to refute it.

    The refutal is easily refuted, however:


    96 Percent of French Israelis Voted for Macron in Final Round of Presidential Election, Envoy Says
    ... Le Gal tweeted that 96.3 percent of French Israelis who cast their ballots in the cities of Tel Aviv, Netanya, Haifa, Ashdod, Eilat and Be’er Sheva opted for Macron, who — with around 66% of the total vote — defeated far-right candidate Marine Le Pen.

     

  100. @Opinionator
    Beinart is a Zionist. So...you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).

    Beinart, an unending, staunch critic yet self-proclaimed lover of the State of Israel, is the author of The Crisis of Zionism in which he most notably calls for a boycott of settlements in the West Bank.

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-The-night-Peter-Beinart-buried-himself-436992
     

    In 2012, I wrote a book that urged American Jews to buy products from “democratic Israel,” the territory inside Israel’s original boundaries in which Jews and Palestinians live under the same law, but not “nondemocratic Israel,” the West Bank, where Jews enjoy citizenship and Palestinians live under colonial rule. So while I oppose boycotting Israel as a whole, I support boycotting Israeli settlements, which I believe threaten Israel’s moral character and its long-term survival.

    http://forward.com/opinion/365320/i-support-boycotting-settlements-should-i-be-banned-from-israel-with-my-chi/
     
    Beinart apparently only wants Aftrican and MENA refugees to go to the United States

    http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/No-Holds-Barred-Beinart-savages-Kushner-on-refugees-but-gives-Obama-a-pass-480755

    Beinart is a Zionist. So…you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).

    And Al Sharpton is a great American patriot. Beinart consistently supports positions that contradict the policies of all mainstream Israeli parties. With friends like that…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Beinart views the colonization of the West Bank as an existential threat to Jewish hegemony in the state called Israel. That view is within the Jewish-American Zionist mainstream.

    He also is in favor of measures directed at ending that colonization. If you accept the premise that the colonization is an existential threat (which, again, is a mainstream premise), then supporting such measures is reasonable, even necessary.

    Are there other positions of his that you had in mind?

  101. @Pericles
    I love Israel too, like I love Sweden, maybe more, and would be just thrilled to see Israel equally full of black and brown babies. An explosion of diverse demographic love!

    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.

    To be clear, though, I don’t care if anyone is black or brown. In Israel, America, or Europe. I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you’re going to make major policy errors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you’re going to make major policy errors.
     
    And if you don't like those principles...I've got some others ones right here.

    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.
     
    From what I've read, the whole country is practically on lock down during the Ramadan, Season of Peace and had to build very big walls to have any peace. Yippee for diversity! I wonder why they don't want more.

    But there was the obligatory virtue signaling that while people are equal, there are people who are more equal than others. That's a relief - a real win for humanity.

    , @Brutusale
    There's no irony there. Jewish women have more black and brown babies here in the US, too, than their percentage of the population would dictate.

    Here's one of Steve's faves discussing it with ubercuck Jeffrey Goldberg.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2008/12/ta-nehisi-on-exotic-women-and-intermarriage/9211/
  102. Beinart’s main point is actually correct, that Trump’s speech was sending some dog whistles to the far right. Trump realizes he needs his entire base to survive.

    The real hypocrisy is that liberals pander to their extremists all the time and never get called on it. I remember President Obama always saying “Minister Farrakhan” with such deference one would think he’s talking about the Pope. Chuck Schumer did a pitch for transgender rights at Trump’s inauguration, how nuts is that?

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    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Judah Benjamin Hur wrote:

    Beinart’s main point is actually correct, that Trump’s speech was sending some dog whistles to the far right. Trump realizes he needs his entire base to survive.
     
    I agree. But, what I find shocking is that the speech (i.e., the excerpts I have seen) would have been mainstream centrism as recently as the Clinton Presidency. I.e., if Clinton had delivered that speech as recently as 1999, it would have been hard to find anyone in America who would have criticized the parts that are subject to so much vituperation today.

    I am beginning to think Derbyshire is right: we are doomed! I just hope that the East Asians and East Europeans can preserve the great achievements of the West: Mendelssohn, Einstein, and all the rest.

    I know a bit of both Russian and Chinese: maybe it's time to pull out the old textbooks and brush up on my language skills.

    All the best,

    Dave
  103. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    Beinart is a Zionist. So…you are straight up wrong (or lying to us).
     
    And Al Sharpton is a great American patriot. Beinart consistently supports positions that contradict the policies of all mainstream Israeli parties. With friends like that...

    Beinart views the colonization of the West Bank as an existential threat to Jewish hegemony in the state called Israel. That view is within the Jewish-American Zionist mainstream.

    He also is in favor of measures directed at ending that colonization. If you accept the premise that the colonization is an existential threat (which, again, is a mainstream premise), then supporting such measures is reasonable, even necessary.

    Are there other positions of his that you had in mind?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Beinart supports putting considerable pressure on Israel to make unilateral concessions. That is not a mainstream Zionist position.
  104. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.

    To be clear, though, I don't care if anyone is black or brown. In Israel, America, or Europe. I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you're going to make major policy errors.

    I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you’re going to make major policy errors.

    And if you don’t like those principles…I’ve got some others ones right here.

    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.

    From what I’ve read, the whole country is practically on lock down during the Ramadan, Season of Peace and had to build very big walls to have any peace. Yippee for diversity! I wonder why they don’t want more.

    But there was the obligatory virtue signaling that while people are equal, there are people who are more equal than others. That’s a relief – a real win for humanity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Judah Benjamin Hur

    And if you don’t like those principles…I’ve got some others ones right here.
     
    One of my favorite Groucho lines :)


    But there was the obligatory virtue signaling that while people are equal, there are people who are more equal than others. That’s a relief – a real win for humanity.
     
    Excellent :D

    It's not virtue signaling, actually. I honestly believe it. I can't say my life is more valuable than an African's. It's a lot more important to me and it should be more important to my leaders who supposedly represent me.

    Moreover, even though groups differ from each other, the most you can do is generalize. Let's put it this way (I believe I got this analogy from someone a long time ago, can't remember where). The Yankees have been vastly more successful than the Cubs. If you could randomly import 24 Yankees to your team you would probably beat 24 random Cubs. But the Cubs have produced many great players and the majority of Yankees are nothing special. Knowing if a player was a Cub or Yankee is of some value, but I'd really need a whole lot more to make any judgments.
  105. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    It's that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration to Europe or the US. The primary exception is exactly the same for Christians, rich businessmen who want the cheap labor.

    It’s that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration to Europe or the US.

    You don’t want me to dig up a list of pro-Israel Jews who practically break out in hives when the idea of a US border is mentioned, do you? Because most right wing Jews will give you the obligatory moralizing about the Founding Fathers who never really existed when the subject comes up.

    Read More
  106. @Opinionator
    Beinart views the colonization of the West Bank as an existential threat to Jewish hegemony in the state called Israel. That view is within the Jewish-American Zionist mainstream.

    He also is in favor of measures directed at ending that colonization. If you accept the premise that the colonization is an existential threat (which, again, is a mainstream premise), then supporting such measures is reasonable, even necessary.

    Are there other positions of his that you had in mind?

    Beinart supports putting considerable pressure on Israel to make unilateral concessions. That is not a mainstream Zionist position.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Beinart, not unreasonably, considers the Jewish colonization of the West Bank to be unilaterally prejudicial to the Zionist project.

    Reasonable minds can disagree about that on pragmatic grounds.

  107. @neutral
    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    Jews are co-creators of Western Civilization. You can act like Apple’s BOD which kicked Steve Jobs out of the company, but it’s a dumb idea.

    In fairness, the circle of Jewish Civilization extends beyond Western Civilization, whereas Anglo Civilization, for example, arguably fits entirely in Western Civilization.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    Jews are co-creators of Western Civilization. You can act like Apple’s BOD which kicked Steve Jobs out of the company, but it’s a dumb idea.
     
    Ha, ha, no they are not. And you wonder why you don't have friends. We very much appreciate your input on theology, but we stole like crazy from others too and built it ourselves.

    Jews have only ever been about 5% of the population of the host societies they've been in. 95% of it is so ours. There are no notable Jewish achievements outside of structures developed and supported in the West. We even gave you Israel.


    In fairness, the circle of Jewish Civilization extends beyond Western Civilization, whereas Anglo Civilization, for example, arguably fits entirely in Western Civilization.
     
    It must be tough finding hats, what with tragic head size.
  108. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    It's that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration to Europe or the US. The primary exception is exactly the same for Christians, rich businessmen who want the cheap labor.

    It’s that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration

    The closed borders for Israel hypocricy argument must be seen as a major threat, because literally every single time it is mentioned someone comes in to refute it.

    The refutal is easily refuted, however:

    96 Percent of French Israelis Voted for Macron in Final Round of Presidential Election, Envoy Says
    … Le Gal tweeted that 96.3 percent of French Israelis who cast their ballots in the cities of Tel Aviv, Netanya, Haifa, Ashdod, Eilat and Be’er Sheva opted for Macron, who — with around 66% of the total vote — defeated far-right candidate Marine Le Pen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    There is no such thing as a 'French Israeli'. There are French Jews. They're too small a population to accurately survey with conventional exit polls.
  109. @neutral
    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    neutral wrote to me:

    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that.

    Well… the ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews were born in the West for an awfully long time!

    In fact, for as long as there has been a “West.”

    And, the Poles, which this discussion is about, were actually not part of the “West” initially (i.e., in Charlemagne’s time): remember first Charlemagne had to “convert” the Saxons and all that. Yet, I take it that you accept the Johnny-Come-Lately Poles as true members of the West. (Let me make clear that I myself do indeed accept Poles as Westerners, just as I accept Jews as Westerners.)

    neutral also wrote:

    Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    Well… my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.

    No doubt that makes me a heretic double-plus bad.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a “Thoreauist” rather than as “alt-Right.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    In fact, for as long as there has been a “West.”
     
    If you want to be and do something real, stop putting the West in quotes. Or drop the "physicist" because obviously it's just a "construct" and you owe any learning to everyone else that has ever lived before you.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a “Thoreauist” rather than as “alt-Right.”
     
    Thoreau was a teenager in adult garb whose Mom did his laundry and brought him cookies. It's not something I'd be proud of. I can at least find people I respect on the alt-right.

    Well… my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.
     
    With help like this in the "West" it's hard to imagine why we're failing. All these kick hiney Thoreau types who need house cleaning services while examining their navel. Thanks for courageously pulling our your Chinese language books. I'm inspired.
    , @Desiderius
    Let neutral sperg.

    We need all the help we can get. Non-Europeans willing to fight for the West should be Western enough for us.
  110. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Kevin C.

    It seems clear now that the South has had near total victory, Western Europe and North America will more than likely succumb to the third world populations, even Eastern Europe I don’t see much of chance for them holding out.
     
    I don't see much chance either. Who was it who said something about how the White Race may need to be recreated, Jurassic Park style, in a Chinese lab?

    Not going to happen.

    When things go bad, and I mean bad like starvation and societal breakdown, events that are inevitable if reasonable policies are not put into place to stem the tide of Third World migration to the West, even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive. When that happens it will not be safe to be a Muslim or African living in Sweden or Germany.

    It does not have to happen this way. But it will unless reasonable steps are taken NOW to prevent white dispossession of their own lands and cultures.

    The only thing stopping the West from putting an end to this suicidal foolishness of embracing the Third World as their adopted children are the braindead white liberals. They are the enemy of the West.

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.
     
    He'll become/is becoming reasonable long before that, or at least less dangerous to the rest of us.

    All it takes is detaching status from deracination and attaching it more locally. The anti-globalist protests are already expressing the will to do so in a radically different manner than those around here expect.
    , @Kevin C.

    even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive.
     

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.
     
    You say that, but I have to disagree. I think that too many of them are indeed True Believers for that to happen. I think the "Goodwhites" will ultimately prove willing to die for their cause, so long as they can make sure enough of the rest of us "Badwhites" down with them.
  111. Art Deco says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    It’s that pro-Israel Jews are mostly NOT pushing for African and Muslim immigration

     

    The closed borders for Israel hypocricy argument must be seen as a major threat, because literally every single time it is mentioned someone comes in to refute it.

    The refutal is easily refuted, however:


    96 Percent of French Israelis Voted for Macron in Final Round of Presidential Election, Envoy Says
    ... Le Gal tweeted that 96.3 percent of French Israelis who cast their ballots in the cities of Tel Aviv, Netanya, Haifa, Ashdod, Eilat and Be’er Sheva opted for Macron, who — with around 66% of the total vote — defeated far-right candidate Marine Le Pen.

     

    There is no such thing as a ‘French Israeli’. There are French Jews. They’re too small a population to accurately survey with conventional exit polls.

    Read More
  112. Art Deco says:
    @neutral
    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that. Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?

    Strange as it may seem to you, there’s been an indigenous Jewish population in occidental countries since the High Middle Ages.

    Read More
  113. Art Deco says:
    @AM

    What an odd article so he doesn’t recognize the concept of Western Civilization?
     
    Despite all the hand waiving about "Judeo-Christian" society, Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it, which is a conclusion it took me a long time to come to.

    I think ethnic Jews, with any sense of their heritage, understand that instinctively. Thus the concern when a Christian solider who is confident, successful, and understands his heritage, begins to rally the troops to defend Western Civilization.

    Most of the time, that really doesn't end badly for Jews, but between "muh Holocaust" and what appears to be the group inability to read the motivations of others outside of Jewish society, they're in full panic mode.

    Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it,

    That’s just silly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    That’s just silly.
     
    Not really, but it would take lots of posts to explain why. I'll give you the summary, borrowing and building from Judaism is not the same as having it be the entire construct. Jewish construct societies are vastly different than those in Europe.
  114. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Beinart's main point is actually correct, that Trump's speech was sending some dog whistles to the far right. Trump realizes he needs his entire base to survive.

    The real hypocrisy is that liberals pander to their extremists all the time and never get called on it. I remember President Obama always saying "Minister Farrakhan" with such deference one would think he's talking about the Pope. Chuck Schumer did a pitch for transgender rights at Trump's inauguration, how nuts is that?

    Judah Benjamin Hur wrote:

    Beinart’s main point is actually correct, that Trump’s speech was sending some dog whistles to the far right. Trump realizes he needs his entire base to survive.

    I agree. But, what I find shocking is that the speech (i.e., the excerpts I have seen) would have been mainstream centrism as recently as the Clinton Presidency. I.e., if Clinton had delivered that speech as recently as 1999, it would have been hard to find anyone in America who would have criticized the parts that are subject to so much vituperation today.

    I am beginning to think Derbyshire is right: we are doomed! I just hope that the East Asians and East Europeans can preserve the great achievements of the West: Mendelssohn, Einstein, and all the rest.

    I know a bit of both Russian and Chinese: maybe it’s time to pull out the old textbooks and brush up on my language skills.

    All the best,

    Dave

    Read More
  115. @Cagey Beast
    The simple fact is that people like Peter Beinart belong to a subculture that, ironically, defines itself as the mainstream culture. Members of this subculture have congregated around our cultural and political choke-points and finance themselves by extorting and bullying the rest of us as we try to get on with our lives. The best way to weaken them is to stop accepting their claims to be the guardians of our civilization; they're just strategically located shakedown artists.

    The proof of my claim is that article by Beinart and the dozens of similar ones written since Trump nominally became "the leader of the free world". For them, the POTUS is the head of the West, and the West is the best, unless the POTUS is Trump and Trump refuses to pay the shakedown artists their cut and treat them with the respect they feel they deserve. Their West is a phony West. We're the real West and Trump is one of its many imperfect leaders. The "mainstream" political class is merely a sour little subculture within our West.

    Cagey Beast wrote:

    Their West is a phony West. We’re the real West and Trump is one of its many imperfect leaders. The “mainstream” political class is merely a sour little subculture within our West.

    Well… based on the popular vote in the recent French, British, and US elections, I am afraid that what you refer to as “our West” is now a minority in the West.

    For better or worse, Beinart and his allies seem able to poll at least fifty percent everywhere west of Poland and Czechia.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kevin C.
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Even a quick look at the recent elections you mentioned would show no evidence to support the claim that globalism, post-nationalism and multiculturalism were in the ascendant. Quite the contrary, in fact.
  116. @AM

    I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you’re going to make major policy errors.
     
    And if you don't like those principles...I've got some others ones right here.

    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.
     
    From what I've read, the whole country is practically on lock down during the Ramadan, Season of Peace and had to build very big walls to have any peace. Yippee for diversity! I wonder why they don't want more.

    But there was the obligatory virtue signaling that while people are equal, there are people who are more equal than others. That's a relief - a real win for humanity.

    And if you don’t like those principles…I’ve got some others ones right here.

    One of my favorite Groucho lines :)

    But there was the obligatory virtue signaling that while people are equal, there are people who are more equal than others. That’s a relief – a real win for humanity.

    Excellent :D

    It’s not virtue signaling, actually. I honestly believe it. I can’t say my life is more valuable than an African’s. It’s a lot more important to me and it should be more important to my leaders who supposedly represent me.

    Moreover, even though groups differ from each other, the most you can do is generalize. Let’s put it this way (I believe I got this analogy from someone a long time ago, can’t remember where). The Yankees have been vastly more successful than the Cubs. If you could randomly import 24 Yankees to your team you would probably beat 24 random Cubs. But the Cubs have produced many great players and the majority of Yankees are nothing special. Knowing if a player was a Cub or Yankee is of some value, but I’d really need a whole lot more to make any judgments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    It’s not virtue signaling, actually. I honestly believe it. I can’t say my life is more valuable than an African’s.
     
    Considering you've felt the need to state it twice and came up with the okay, the Cubs always lose, but they've got some great stars (ie Most Valuable Players), I don't believe you. Somewhere in your mental landscape you do believe you're more valuable, in part possibly because you've digested "chosen" without seriously digesting the rest of what Judaism says about God's chosen.

    It's just lip service to today's fashionable view of humanity, which is the Christian view stripped of uncomfortable ideas like: the fall, God, Christ, and sin. Today's view tries to keep the warm and fuzzy part, which is not all that warm and fuzzy when you add back what Christianity is trying to say. It's rather more like a threat if you think it through, because it means there is no place to hide.

    I guess in the end I tend to prefer honesty. At least with the Christian haters and misogynists of the alt-right, you know where you stand. Heaven save me from the "I'm just the same as every other guy, and nice, and here's 3000 reasons why I'm superior to them."
  117. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Jews are co-creators of Western Civilization. You can act like Apple's BOD which kicked Steve Jobs out of the company, but it's a dumb idea.

    In fairness, the circle of Jewish Civilization extends beyond Western Civilization, whereas Anglo Civilization, for example, arguably fits entirely in Western Civilization.

    Jews are co-creators of Western Civilization. You can act like Apple’s BOD which kicked Steve Jobs out of the company, but it’s a dumb idea.

    Ha, ha, no they are not. And you wonder why you don’t have friends. We very much appreciate your input on theology, but we stole like crazy from others too and built it ourselves.

    Jews have only ever been about 5% of the population of the host societies they’ve been in. 95% of it is so ours. There are no notable Jewish achievements outside of structures developed and supported in the West. We even gave you Israel.

    In fairness, the circle of Jewish Civilization extends beyond Western Civilization, whereas Anglo Civilization, for example, arguably fits entirely in Western Civilization.

    It must be tough finding hats, what with tragic head size.

    Read More
  118. AM says:
    @Art Deco
    Western Civilization is not a Jewish construct. They are simply not part of it,

    That's just silly.

    That’s just silly.

    Not really, but it would take lots of posts to explain why. I’ll give you the summary, borrowing and building from Judaism is not the same as having it be the entire construct. Jewish construct societies are vastly different than those in Europe.

    Read More
  119. AM says:
    @PhysicistDave
    neutral wrote to me:

    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that.
     
    Well... the ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews were born in the West for an awfully long time!

    In fact, for as long as there has been a "West."

    And, the Poles, which this discussion is about, were actually not part of the "West" initially (i.e., in Charlemagne's time): remember first Charlemagne had to "convert" the Saxons and all that. Yet, I take it that you accept the Johnny-Come-Lately Poles as true members of the West. (Let me make clear that I myself do indeed accept Poles as Westerners, just as I accept Jews as Westerners.)

    neutral also wrote:

    Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?
     
    Well... my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.

    No doubt that makes me a heretic double-plus bad.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a "Thoreauist" rather than as "alt-Right."

    In fact, for as long as there has been a “West.”

    If you want to be and do something real, stop putting the West in quotes. Or drop the “physicist” because obviously it’s just a “construct” and you owe any learning to everyone else that has ever lived before you.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a “Thoreauist” rather than as “alt-Right.”

    Thoreau was a teenager in adult garb whose Mom did his laundry and brought him cookies. It’s not something I’d be proud of. I can at least find people I respect on the alt-right.

    Well… my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.

    With help like this in the “West” it’s hard to imagine why we’re failing. All these kick hiney Thoreau types who need house cleaning services while examining their navel. Thanks for courageously pulling our your Chinese language books. I’m inspired.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    AM wrote to me:

    If you want to be and do something real, stop putting the West in quotes. Or drop the “physicist” because obviously it’s just a “construct” and you owe any learning to everyone else that has ever lived before you.
     
    I put "West" in quotes because I meant that as shorthand for "a culture generally referred to as the West": after all, the geographic area of western Eurasia has been there for millions of years, but it has not always hosted the culture known as the "West."

    And, yes, the West is of course a "construct," a construct with some degree of flexibility: at one point, Germany was part of "Central Europe" and not Western Europe. And, when I was young, Poland was part of the "East," not the "West."

    On the other hand, at least for most of the last century, historians seem to have found the "West" to be a useful construct in the sense Trump used it: i.e., Poland is obviously part of the West (from Copernicus to Jan Lukasiewicz).

    I agree with that consensus: Poland is Western; Ukraine is not.

    Dave
  120. Olorin says:
    @syonredux
    Here's James Fallows' reaction:

    Is America an idea?
     
    MMM, I hope not. Ideas are awfully easy to change....I would like to think that America is not as ephemeral as an idea.....

    Or is it a specific “people” or ethnic group?
     
    Why the scare quotes around "people"?

    Our current president began his trip to Europe with a speech in Poland that minimized the role of ideals in American identity, and maximized the importance of what he called “civilization” but which boils down to ties of ethnicity and blood.
     
    Well, ethnic groups create ideas.....I mean, if the Founders hadn't been WASPs, I'm pretty sure that the USA would be unrecognizable....

    But the major departure in Trump’s speech was its seeming indifference to the American idea. At least when speaking to the world, American presidents have emphasized an expanded “us.” All men are created equal. Every man is a German. Ich bin ein Berliner.
     
    MMM, pretty sure that we were not supposed to take that literally....

    Our realities in America have always been flawed, but our idea is in principle limitless.
     
    You do know, of course, that the ideal and the real ought not to be confused....How do the lines go...Ah, yes:

    "Between the idea
    And the reality
    Between the motion
    And the act
    Falls the Shadow"

    Trump gave grace-note nods to goals of liberty and free expression. Mainly, though, he spoke not about an expanded us but instead about us and them. He spoke repeatedly about our “heritage,” our “blood,” our “civilization,” our “ancestors” and “families,” our “will” and “way of life.”
     
    Which is to say, Trump is smart enough to realize that different cultures are, you know, different....

    Every one of these of course has perfectly noble connotations. But combined and in practice, they amount to the way the Japanese nationalists of the early 20th century onward spoke, about the purity of “we Japanese” and the need to stick together as a tribe.
     
    Hey, kudos for going for Imperial Japan and not Nazi Germany as a point of comparison...Although you might want to note that the Japanese still think that way today...And it seems to be working out OK...

    They rest on basic distinctions between us and them as peoples—that is, as tribes—rather than as the contending ideas and systems that presidents from our first to our 44th had emphasized.
     
    Maybe because Trump is the first President to really grok that the Cold War is over? That the current age is defined not by the clash of ideologies (Do any prominent thinkers in the West actually think that Islam is the way to go?) but by the clash of peoples?

    Has Donald Trump ever heard of Leni Riefenstahl? Would he recognize an allusion to Triumph of the Will?
     
    Dammit! And you were doing so well. I actually thought that you would make it to the end without invoking Nazi Germany in a direct fashion.....

    But there is no doubt that Steve Bannon has heard of Reifenstahl, and I’d imagine Steve Miller too.
     
    We'll just not mention the fact that Miller is Jewish....


    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/trump-poland-speech/532839/

    Why the scare quotes around “people”?

    Because the American People scare the squitz out of elite hothouse orchids like James Fallows.

    Read More
  121. @Judah Benjamin Hur

    have its teeming masses settle anywhere in the West they want (except, of course, for Israel).
     
    I realize this is a sure applause line in these parts, but it's totally unfair. First, Israel has a larger Muslim population than any Western country. Second, Israel is tiny and has an extremely high population density. Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.

    “Third, far-left Jews like Beinart would totally screw Israel with African immigration if they got the chance.”

    He does have that chance, yet he chooses to preach his poison to us.

    Read More
  122. @AM

    I’m a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).
     
    Believe it or not, I am generally too. It is rather impossible to go to church and avoid Judaism. I also suspect the vast majority of practicing Jews are an asset to most societies. :)

    It's mostly personal failing - I tend argue a lot. One of the reasons that I'm not hanging out The Daily Stormer is I'd be forever reacting to that sort of "low rent" antisemitism that knee jerk blames the personal problems on them.

    We can worry about the Stormer once the people/problems (some of the failings are our own) destroying our civilization are dealt with.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM
    Personally, I think the Jews in high places are symptoms of the disease, not the disease itself.

    But even if that's wrong, I do know is that even vaguely worrying about the Stormer is on the list of recent mistakes by the conservative factions in society. They are welcome to publish article #123,341 article about some random Jewish person in history that seemingly caused the fall of an otherwise amazing intact European culture. Hmm.. It's not worth the time to worry.

    Because the other thing I know about the JQ, and it's obvious that some Jews (especially in the media) sort of like this, is that it sucks all of the conversation oxygen out of the room. It's like watching Trump bait the media into talking about noise because he knows the oxygen removal effect. He's much freer to do real things without the media firestorm.

    If I do much more than this post about antisemitism, then subject is always Semites regardless of what it is I really wanted to talk about. Old and not worth it.
  123. @PhysicistDave
    Judah Benjamin Hur wrote:

    Beinart’s main point is actually correct, that Trump’s speech was sending some dog whistles to the far right. Trump realizes he needs his entire base to survive.
     
    I agree. But, what I find shocking is that the speech (i.e., the excerpts I have seen) would have been mainstream centrism as recently as the Clinton Presidency. I.e., if Clinton had delivered that speech as recently as 1999, it would have been hard to find anyone in America who would have criticized the parts that are subject to so much vituperation today.

    I am beginning to think Derbyshire is right: we are doomed! I just hope that the East Asians and East Europeans can preserve the great achievements of the West: Mendelssohn, Einstein, and all the rest.

    I know a bit of both Russian and Chinese: maybe it's time to pull out the old textbooks and brush up on my language skills.

    All the best,

    Dave

    we are doomed!

    It’s a passing fad.

    Read More
  124. @lavoisier
    Not going to happen.

    When things go bad, and I mean bad like starvation and societal breakdown, events that are inevitable if reasonable policies are not put into place to stem the tide of Third World migration to the West, even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive. When that happens it will not be safe to be a Muslim or African living in Sweden or Germany.

    It does not have to happen this way. But it will unless reasonable steps are taken NOW to prevent white dispossession of their own lands and cultures.

    The only thing stopping the West from putting an end to this suicidal foolishness of embracing the Third World as their adopted children are the braindead white liberals. They are the enemy of the West.

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.

    He’ll become/is becoming reasonable long before that, or at least less dangerous to the rest of us.

    All it takes is detaching status from deracination and attaching it more locally. The anti-globalist protests are already expressing the will to do so in a radically different manner than those around here expect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @lavoisier
    That is an excellent point.

    If protecting the border can be properly seen as a vital interest of the working class, not the WHITE working class but THE entire working class, the Left can start to get on board with the idea that open borders are immoral. They can then see clearly that the enemy is not whitey, but the globalist who gains the most from open borders and who is responsible for turning working class brothers against brothers--black against white.

    We need the support of the left if we have any hope to defeat the globalists.
  125. @PhysicistDave
    neutral wrote to me:

    No they are absolutely not, jews are not Western, one does not become Western simply because of what one has done. You are born Western and that is the ONLY way one can become that.
     
    Well... the ancestors of Ashkenazi Jews were born in the West for an awfully long time!

    In fact, for as long as there has been a "West."

    And, the Poles, which this discussion is about, were actually not part of the "West" initially (i.e., in Charlemagne's time): remember first Charlemagne had to "convert" the Saxons and all that. Yet, I take it that you accept the Johnny-Come-Lately Poles as true members of the West. (Let me make clear that I myself do indeed accept Poles as Westerners, just as I accept Jews as Westerners.)

    neutral also wrote:

    Should I now mention some notable Chinese or Japanese people and claim they are Western because of their accomplishments ?
     
    Well... my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.

    No doubt that makes me a heretic double-plus bad.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a "Thoreauist" rather than as "alt-Right."

    Let neutral sperg.

    We need all the help we can get. Non-Europeans willing to fight for the West should be Western enough for us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral
    The only one sperging is you, if you think that embracing people like sub Saharan catholics as Western allies (or Western itself) and that a non white Europe is Western is simply highly refined levels of autism.

    Western means white, European means white, accepting non whites as Western is simply ridiculous.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Desiderius wrote to me:

    We need all the help we can get. Non-Europeans willing to fight for the West should be Western enough for us.
     
    Indeed. It will be a sad day if the world loses England or France. But the world would move on.

    But if most of the achievements of Western civilization are lost altogether -- science, medicine, technology, music, mathematics, industry, and all the rest -- it would be by far the greatest tragedy in human history.

    There are quite a few people outside the West who are keenly aware if that fact -- i.e., everyone who is both educated and sane.

    In the end, I think the West may find that it has far more friends than we realize.

    Dave
  126. AM says:
    @Desiderius
    We can worry about the Stormer once the people/problems (some of the failings are our own) destroying our civilization are dealt with.

    Personally, I think the Jews in high places are symptoms of the disease, not the disease itself.

    But even if that’s wrong, I do know is that even vaguely worrying about the Stormer is on the list of recent mistakes by the conservative factions in society. They are welcome to publish article #123,341 article about some random Jewish person in history that seemingly caused the fall of an otherwise amazing intact European culture. Hmm.. It’s not worth the time to worry.

    Because the other thing I know about the JQ, and it’s obvious that some Jews (especially in the media) sort of like this, is that it sucks all of the conversation oxygen out of the room. It’s like watching Trump bait the media into talking about noise because he knows the oxygen removal effect. He’s much freer to do real things without the media firestorm.

    If I do much more than this post about antisemitism, then subject is always Semites regardless of what it is I really wanted to talk about. Old and not worth it.

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  127. neutral says:
    @Desiderius
    Let neutral sperg.

    We need all the help we can get. Non-Europeans willing to fight for the West should be Western enough for us.

    The only one sperging is you, if you think that embracing people like sub Saharan catholics as Western allies (or Western itself) and that a non white Europe is Western is simply highly refined levels of autism.

    Western means white, European means white, accepting non whites as Western is simply ridiculous.

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  128. @AM

    In fact, for as long as there has been a “West.”
     
    If you want to be and do something real, stop putting the West in quotes. Or drop the "physicist" because obviously it's just a "construct" and you owe any learning to everyone else that has ever lived before you.

    I think there may be a good reason I describe myself as a “Thoreauist” rather than as “alt-Right.”
     
    Thoreau was a teenager in adult garb whose Mom did his laundry and brought him cookies. It's not something I'd be proud of. I can at least find people I respect on the alt-right.

    Well… my own personal observation is that what manages to survive of Western civilization seems to be doing better in East Asia and Russia than in the dear old USA.
     
    With help like this in the "West" it's hard to imagine why we're failing. All these kick hiney Thoreau types who need house cleaning services while examining their navel. Thanks for courageously pulling our your Chinese language books. I'm inspired.

    AM wrote to me:

    If you want to be and do something real, stop putting the West in quotes. Or drop the “physicist” because obviously it’s just a “construct” and you owe any learning to everyone else that has ever lived before you.

    I put “West” in quotes because I meant that as shorthand for “a culture generally referred to as the West”: after all, the geographic area of western Eurasia has been there for millions of years, but it has not always hosted the culture known as the “West.”

    And, yes, the West is of course a “construct,” a construct with some degree of flexibility: at one point, Germany was part of “Central Europe” and not Western Europe. And, when I was young, Poland was part of the “East,” not the “West.”

    On the other hand, at least for most of the last century, historians seem to have found the “West” to be a useful construct in the sense Trump used it: i.e., Poland is obviously part of the West (from Copernicus to Jan Lukasiewicz).

    I agree with that consensus: Poland is Western; Ukraine is not.

    Dave

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  129. @Desiderius
    Let neutral sperg.

    We need all the help we can get. Non-Europeans willing to fight for the West should be Western enough for us.

    Desiderius wrote to me:

    We need all the help we can get. Non-Europeans willing to fight for the West should be Western enough for us.

    Indeed. It will be a sad day if the world loses England or France. But the world would move on.

    But if most of the achievements of Western civilization are lost altogether — science, medicine, technology, music, mathematics, industry, and all the rest — it would be by far the greatest tragedy in human history.

    There are quite a few people outside the West who are keenly aware if that fact — i.e., everyone who is both educated and sane.

    In the end, I think the West may find that it has far more friends than we realize.

    Dave

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  130. AM says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur

    And if you don’t like those principles…I’ve got some others ones right here.
     
    One of my favorite Groucho lines :)


    But there was the obligatory virtue signaling that while people are equal, there are people who are more equal than others. That’s a relief – a real win for humanity.
     
    Excellent :D

    It's not virtue signaling, actually. I honestly believe it. I can't say my life is more valuable than an African's. It's a lot more important to me and it should be more important to my leaders who supposedly represent me.

    Moreover, even though groups differ from each other, the most you can do is generalize. Let's put it this way (I believe I got this analogy from someone a long time ago, can't remember where). The Yankees have been vastly more successful than the Cubs. If you could randomly import 24 Yankees to your team you would probably beat 24 random Cubs. But the Cubs have produced many great players and the majority of Yankees are nothing special. Knowing if a player was a Cub or Yankee is of some value, but I'd really need a whole lot more to make any judgments.

    It’s not virtue signaling, actually. I honestly believe it. I can’t say my life is more valuable than an African’s.

    Considering you’ve felt the need to state it twice and came up with the okay, the Cubs always lose, but they’ve got some great stars (ie Most Valuable Players), I don’t believe you. Somewhere in your mental landscape you do believe you’re more valuable, in part possibly because you’ve digested “chosen” without seriously digesting the rest of what Judaism says about God’s chosen.

    It’s just lip service to today’s fashionable view of humanity, which is the Christian view stripped of uncomfortable ideas like: the fall, God, Christ, and sin. Today’s view tries to keep the warm and fuzzy part, which is not all that warm and fuzzy when you add back what Christianity is trying to say. It’s rather more like a threat if you think it through, because it means there is no place to hide.

    I guess in the end I tend to prefer honesty. At least with the Christian haters and misogynists of the alt-right, you know where you stand. Heaven save me from the “I’m just the same as every other guy, and nice, and here’s 3000 reasons why I’m superior to them.”

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  131. @PhysicistDave
    AM wrote to me:

    If you want to be and do something real, stop putting the West in quotes. Or drop the “physicist” because obviously it’s just a “construct” and you owe any learning to everyone else that has ever lived before you.
     
    I put "West" in quotes because I meant that as shorthand for "a culture generally referred to as the West": after all, the geographic area of western Eurasia has been there for millions of years, but it has not always hosted the culture known as the "West."

    And, yes, the West is of course a "construct," a construct with some degree of flexibility: at one point, Germany was part of "Central Europe" and not Western Europe. And, when I was young, Poland was part of the "East," not the "West."

    On the other hand, at least for most of the last century, historians seem to have found the "West" to be a useful construct in the sense Trump used it: i.e., Poland is obviously part of the West (from Copernicus to Jan Lukasiewicz).

    I agree with that consensus: Poland is Western; Ukraine is not.

    Dave

    What’s your view on Greece?

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    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Opinionator wrote to me:

    What’s your view on Greece?
     
    Well, of course ancient Greece was the fount of Classical Civilization (AKA Greco-Roman civilization), which is ancestral to our own civilization.

    As for modern Greece, it seems to me one of those places, like Israel, South Africa, Indonesia, etc. that is sort of in-between civilizations (Western, Orthodox, Islamic) in an interesting way. I have visited there, and we found it to be a beautiful country with generally friendly people (although the country is very inefficiently run).

    Dave
  132. Cagey Beast says: • Website
    @PhysicistDave
    Cagey Beast wrote:

    Their West is a phony West. We’re the real West and Trump is one of its many imperfect leaders. The “mainstream” political class is merely a sour little subculture within our West.
     
    Well... based on the popular vote in the recent French, British, and US elections, I am afraid that what you refer to as "our West" is now a minority in the West.

    For better or worse, Beinart and his allies seem able to poll at least fifty percent everywhere west of Poland and Czechia.

    Even a quick look at the recent elections you mentioned would show no evidence to support the claim that globalism, post-nationalism and multiculturalism were in the ascendant. Quite the contrary, in fact.

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    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Cagey Beast wrote to me:

    Even a quick look at the recent elections you mentioned would show no evidence to support the claim that globalism, post-nationalism and multiculturalism were in the ascendant. Quite the contrary, in fact.
     
    Macron won in France, and the British Parliamentary elections are hard to parse. Elsewhere (Austria, the Netherlands), anti-globalist groups have failed. Of course, Trump won, but with less than 50 percent of the popular vote, and several East European countries are indeed strongly anti-globalist.

    It seems to me the long-term outcome is still up in the air.

    Anyway, my point was that the globalists can still generally get around 50 percent of the vote, plus or minus. They are not decisively down-and-out.

    I suspect that, long-term, events (and demography) will be in the saddle, and I do not know how that will turn out.

    Dave
  133. @Judah Benjamin Hur
    Beinart supports putting considerable pressure on Israel to make unilateral concessions. That is not a mainstream Zionist position.

    Beinart, not unreasonably, considers the Jewish colonization of the West Bank to be unilaterally prejudicial to the Zionist project.

    Reasonable minds can disagree about that on pragmatic grounds.

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  134. @Opinionator
    What's your view on Greece?

    Opinionator wrote to me:

    What’s your view on Greece?

    Well, of course ancient Greece was the fount of Classical Civilization (AKA Greco-Roman civilization), which is ancestral to our own civilization.

    As for modern Greece, it seems to me one of those places, like Israel, South Africa, Indonesia, etc. that is sort of in-between civilizations (Western, Orthodox, Islamic) in an interesting way. I have visited there, and we found it to be a beautiful country with generally friendly people (although the country is very inefficiently run).

    Dave

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  135. @Cagey Beast
    Even a quick look at the recent elections you mentioned would show no evidence to support the claim that globalism, post-nationalism and multiculturalism were in the ascendant. Quite the contrary, in fact.

    Cagey Beast wrote to me:

    Even a quick look at the recent elections you mentioned would show no evidence to support the claim that globalism, post-nationalism and multiculturalism were in the ascendant. Quite the contrary, in fact.

    Macron won in France, and the British Parliamentary elections are hard to parse. Elsewhere (Austria, the Netherlands), anti-globalist groups have failed. Of course, Trump won, but with less than 50 percent of the popular vote, and several East European countries are indeed strongly anti-globalist.

    It seems to me the long-term outcome is still up in the air.

    Anyway, my point was that the globalists can still generally get around 50 percent of the vote, plus or minus. They are not decisively down-and-out.

    I suspect that, long-term, events (and demography) will be in the saddle, and I do not know how that will turn out.

    Dave

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  136. Kevin C. says:
    @lavoisier
    Not going to happen.

    When things go bad, and I mean bad like starvation and societal breakdown, events that are inevitable if reasonable policies are not put into place to stem the tide of Third World migration to the West, even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive. When that happens it will not be safe to be a Muslim or African living in Sweden or Germany.

    It does not have to happen this way. But it will unless reasonable steps are taken NOW to prevent white dispossession of their own lands and cultures.

    The only thing stopping the West from putting an end to this suicidal foolishness of embracing the Third World as their adopted children are the braindead white liberals. They are the enemy of the West.

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.

    even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive.

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.

    You say that, but I have to disagree. I think that too many of them are indeed True Believers for that to happen. I think the “Goodwhites” will ultimately prove willing to die for their cause, so long as they can make sure enough of the rest of us “Badwhites” down with them.

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    • Replies: @lavoisier
    I disagree.

    One of the things essential for the existence of the braindead white liberal is comfort. Most of the species are totally immune from the consequences of their destructive worldview. Most liberals have lived in an environment that is safe and comfortable enough for them to embrace and champion an egalitarian fiction that is clearly not consonant with reality.

    When that immunity is destroyed, when the egalitarian fiction that they have supported their entire life leads to societal breakdown and the white liberal gets assaulted or goes hungry, they will wake up.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. White liberals are invariably hypocrites and fools, but they do not suffer real injuries with equanimity.

    You give the fools far too much credit for a fortitude and a courage that they simply do not have.
  137. Brutusale says:
    @Desiderius
    Judaism can be a part of Western Civilization (i.e. separate from Christianity per se) without Judeo-Christianity being a concept with much history/validity.

    Vox is big against it:

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-judeo-christian-fraud.html

    I'm a lot more sanguine about it, tho Jews would do well to get their act together soon (likewise your typical Churchians).

    Uh, Vox is some crappy lefty web outpost that grew out of an unholy union of the Daily Kos and sports blogs.

    Vox Day is the pen name of an alt-right game designer and blogger that defeated the moonbat idiots in the SFWA who were trying to hijack the Hugo Awards.

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  138. Brutusale says:
    @Judah Benjamin Hur
    The irony is that Israel has more brown and black babies (percentage wise) than most European countries, including Sweden.

    To be clear, though, I don't care if anyone is black or brown. In Israel, America, or Europe. I believe everyone has equal worth as a human being. But when it comes to large numbers, one has to be rational and consider genetic and cultural factors. You know, live in the real world. Otherwise, you're going to make major policy errors.

    There’s no irony there. Jewish women have more black and brown babies here in the US, too, than their percentage of the population would dictate.

    Here’s one of Steve’s faves discussing it with ubercuck Jeffrey Goldberg.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2008/12/ta-nehisi-on-exotic-women-and-intermarriage/9211/

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  139. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Kevin C.

    even the braindead white liberals will identify as white and start to fight for their right to survive.
     

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.
     
    You say that, but I have to disagree. I think that too many of them are indeed True Believers for that to happen. I think the "Goodwhites" will ultimately prove willing to die for their cause, so long as they can make sure enough of the rest of us "Badwhites" down with them.

    I disagree.

    One of the things essential for the existence of the braindead white liberal is comfort. Most of the species are totally immune from the consequences of their destructive worldview. Most liberals have lived in an environment that is safe and comfortable enough for them to embrace and champion an egalitarian fiction that is clearly not consonant with reality.

    When that immunity is destroyed, when the egalitarian fiction that they have supported their entire life leads to societal breakdown and the white liberal gets assaulted or goes hungry, they will wake up.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. White liberals are invariably hypocrites and fools, but they do not suffer real injuries with equanimity.

    You give the fools far too much credit for a fortitude and a courage that they simply do not have.

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  140. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Desiderius

    But even the braindead white liberal can become reasonable when he is hungry.
     
    He'll become/is becoming reasonable long before that, or at least less dangerous to the rest of us.

    All it takes is detaching status from deracination and attaching it more locally. The anti-globalist protests are already expressing the will to do so in a radically different manner than those around here expect.

    That is an excellent point.

    If protecting the border can be properly seen as a vital interest of the working class, not the WHITE working class but THE entire working class, the Left can start to get on board with the idea that open borders are immoral. They can then see clearly that the enemy is not whitey, but the globalist who gains the most from open borders and who is responsible for turning working class brothers against brothers–black against white.

    We need the support of the left if we have any hope to defeat the globalists.

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