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I'm Shocked, Shocked to Find That the Chinese Don't Believe "Diversity Is Our Strength"

Here’s an interesting article from The Economist including facts such as that China has more billionaires than refugees (583). Another highlight:

Foreigners made up 0.05% of the population in 2010, according to the World Bank, compared with 13% in America.

The policy of China First seems to legitimize the rulers of China in the eyes of Chinese.

The upper Han

Who is Chinese?

The world’s rising superpower has a particular vision of ethnicity and nationhood that has implications at home and abroad
Nov 19th 2016 | QINGHAI, KASHGAR, HONG KONG

… Yet the Chinese authorities considered that his foreign passport was superseded by birth and ethnicity: both Mr Gui and Mr Lee are Han, the ethnic group that makes up 92% of mainland China’s population.

Ethnicity is central to China’s national identity. It is the Han, 1.2bn of them in mainland China alone, that most people refer to as “Chinese”, rather than the country’s minorities, numbering 110m people. Ethnicity and nationality have become almost interchangeable for China’s Han, says James Leibold of La Trobe University in Melbourne, Australia. … Even ethnic Han whose families left for other countries generations ago are often regarded as part of a coherent national group, both by China’s government and people.

The Han take their label from the dynasty of that name in the third century BC. Yet the people labelled Han today are a construct of the early 20th century, says Frank Dikötter of the University of Hong Kong. For well over half of the past 650 years, the bulk of territory now called China was occupied by foreign powers (by Mongols from the north, then Manchus from the north-east). Chinese history paints the (foreign) Manchus who ran China’s last dynasty, the Qing, as “Sinicised”, yet recent research suggests that they kept their own language and culture, and that Qing China was part of a larger, multi-ethnic empire.

A bit of tail (the Manchu Empire) wagging the dog (China) in Doctor Dikötter’s thinking.

Under Western imperialism race was often used to divide people. But after the Qing fell in 1911, the new elite sought to create an overarching rationale for the Chinese nation state—its subjects spoke mutually incomprehensible languages and had diverse traditions and beliefs. Patrilineage was already strong in much of China: clans believed they could trace their line to a group of common ancestors. That helped Chinese nationalists develop the idea that all Han were descended from Huangdi, the “Yellow Emperor”, 5,000 years ago.

Race became a central organising principle in Republican China. Sun Yat-sen, who founded the Kuomintang, China’s nationalist party, and is widely seen as a “father” of the Chinese nation, promoted the idea of “common blood”. A century on President Xi Jinping continues to do so. One reason for his claim that Taiwan is part of China is that “blood is thicker than water”. In a speech in 2014 he set his sights even wider: “Generations of overseas Chinese never forget their home country, their origins or the blood of the Chinese nation flowing in their veins.”

Many Chinese today share the idea that a Chinese person is instantly recognisable—and that an ethnic Han must, in essence, be one of them. A young child in Beijing will openly point at someone with white or black skin and declare them a foreigner (or “person from outside country”, to translate literally).

The term “foreign devil” comes up now and then.

The Communist Party’s claim to rule China rests on the the logic that, sure, Mao screwed up now and then. But … he … threw … out … the … foreign … devils.

Homogeneity and xenophobia are among the highest values in Chinese history.

Foreign-born Han living in China are routinely told that their Mandarin should be better (in contrast to non-Han, who are praised even if they only mangle an occasional pleasantry).

China today is extraordinarily homogenous. It sustains that by remaining almost entirely closed to new entrants except by birth. Unless someone is the child of a Chinese national, no matter how long they live there, how much money they make or tax they pay, it is virtually impossible to become a citizen. Someone who marries a Chinese person can theoretically gain citizenship; in practice few do. As a result, the most populous nation on Earth has only 1,448 naturalised Chinese in total, according to the 2010 census. Even Japan, better known for hostility to immigration, naturalises around 10,000 new citizens each year; in America the figure is some 700,000 (see chart).

The conflation of Han and national identity underlies the uneasy relationship between that majority and China’s ethnic-minority citizens. Officialdom theoretically treats minorities as equal and even grants them certain privileges. Yet in practice ethnic groups, particularly those from China’s borderlands, who are visually distinctive, are discriminated against and increasingly marginalised as ethnic Han have moved into their home regions. Through state-sponsored resettlement the Han population of Xinjiang rose from 4% in 1949 to 42% today; Mongols now make up only 17% of Inner Mongolia (see map).

At best non-Han groups within China are patronised as “charming and colourful” curiosities. Yunnan province has built a thriving tourist industry around its minority cultures. Minorities are routinely presented as delighting in folkish customs in contrast with the technologically superior Han. In an exhibition of “Xinjiang’s nationalities” in a museum in Urumqi, the provincial capital, the only person in modern clothes is Han; signs note that Chinese Uzbeks “have a special liking for all kinds of little caps” and Chinese Kazakh life is “full of songs and rhythms”.

China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes. Ordinary manifestations of local culture in border regions have been criminalised. In Xinjiang, Uighur men may not grow long beards and Muslims are sometimes prevented from fasting during Ramadan. Inner Mongolian and Tibetan nomads have been forcibly settled. In Tibet and Xinjiang, many schools teach mostly in Mandarin, even if they lack enough Mandarin-speakers.

That legitimises prejudice in daily life. …

Chinese are now organising in small ways to fight for labour rights, gay rights and environmental concerns but there is little indication that Han are gathering to defend their ethnic peers—perhaps unsurprisingly, given that to do so could be seen as supporting separatism. If anything, the opposite is true: the government’s rhetoric, particularly on the dangers of Islam, has exacerbated existing divisions.

Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism: they are better integrated into Han culture and widely dispersed (importantly they speak Mandarin and often look less distinct). … In July, Mr Xi used a trip to Ningxia province, the Hui heartland, to warn Chinese Muslims to resist “illegal religious infiltration activities” and “carry forward the patriotic tradition”, a sign that he views this group with suspicion, as well as those on China’s fringe with a history of separatism.

Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals, Han Chinese with foreign passports are welcomed and accorded a special status. Anyone with Chinese ancestry has legal advantages in getting a work visa; foreign-born children of Chinese nationals get a leg-up in applying to universities.

This attitude has helped the Chinese economy. Over the past decade much of the inward investment has come from overseas Chinese. Many second-generation Chinese-Americans have started up firms in China. Yet being a member of the “Chinese family”, as Mr Xi puts it, carries expectations too. At a reception in San Francisco last December for American families who had adopted Chinese children, China’s consul reminded them that “you are Chinese”, citing their “black eyes, black hair and dark skin”; he encouraged them to develop a “Chinese spirit”.

In the eyes of the Chinese government, these responsibilities extend beyond cultural ties to a demand for loyalty, not just to China but to the Communist Party. Many foreign Han say they are made to feel it is their duty to speak up on China’s behalf. Earlier this year Chinese immigrants to Australia were urged to take “the correct attitude” to support “the motherland” in its claims to disputed rocks in the South China Sea. A former Australian ambassador to China recently wrote that China’s sway in the country extends to “surveillance, direction and at times coercion” of Chinese students and attempts to enlist Australian Han businessmen to causes serving China’s interests. Chinese-language media in Australia, which was almost universally critical of China in the early 1990s, is mostly positive today and eschews sensitive topics such as Tibet and Falun Gong.

China struggles to accept that descendants of Chinese emigrants may feel no obligation to reflect China’s interests. Gary Locke, the first Chinese-American ambassador to Beijing in 2011-14, was repeatedly criticised by state media for doing his job—representing American interests, even if they conflicted with China’s. …

There is a strong ethnic component to China’s tense relationship with Hong Kong (which it rules) and Taiwan (which it claims). Each is dominated by Han, but increasingly they prize a local rather than “Chinese” identity. A poll by the Chinese University of Hong Kong found that 9% of respondents identified themselves solely as “Chinese”, down from 32% in 1997, when the territory returned to Chinese rule; the trend is similar in Taiwan.

All Under Heaven

The Chinese government even risks clashing with foreign governments by claiming some form of jurisdiction over their ethnic-Han citizens. Last year the government of Malaysia (where the Han population is 25%) censured the Chinese ambassador when he declared that China “would not sit idly by” if its “national interests” and the “interests of Chinese citizens” were violated. The threat he saw was a potentially violent pro-Malay rally, planned in an area where almost all traders were Han but few were Chinese nationals. In isolated cases it goes further. The arrest and detention of naturalised American citizens born in China has long been an irritant in relations between the countries.

China’s Han-centred worldview extends to refugees. In a series of conflicts since 2009 between ethnic militias and government forces in Myanmar the Chinese government has consistently done more to help the thousands escaping into China from Kokang in Myanmar, where 90% of the population is Han, than it has to aid those leaving Kachin, who are not Han. Non-Chinese seem just as beguiled by the purity of Han China as the government in Beijing. Governments and NGOs never suggest that China take refugees from trouble spots elsewhere in the world. The only large influx China has accepted since 1949 were also Han: some 300,000 Vietnamese fled across the border in 1978-79, fearing persecution for being “Chinese”. China has almost completely closed its doors to any others. Aside from the group from Vietnam, China has only 583 refugees on its books. The country has more billionaires.

China’s iron immigration and refugee policy attracts little attention probably because few have sought to immigrate. …

Or because the Chinese aren’t European and Diversity isn’t really about diversity, it’s just a euphemism for anti-Europeanism.

Many outsiders see China as a land of opportunity. Some seek to settle. Yet the government is becoming more draconian towards such groups. Tens of thousands of Chinese men have undocumented marriages with women from Vietnam, Myanmar and Laos, often of the same (non-Han) ethnic group. After years of officialdom turning a blind eye, many of these women are now being sent back and their ID cards confiscated. Guangzhou’s government has launched a three-year plan to tackle illegal immigration. It named no target but may have its eye on up to 500,000 Africans, many of them overstaying their visas, in part of Guangzhou known by locals as “Chocolate City”.

Decades ago China’s government might have argued that the country was too populous or too poor to accept new entrants. Now Chinese women have fewer than 1.6 children on average, well below the replacement rate, and in 2012 the working-age population shrunk for the first time. Yet China is already succumbing to problems many countries face as they grow richer and their workforce better educated.

Perhaps “enjoying” would be a more accurate verb than “succumbing to?”

It has a severe shortage of social workers, care staff and nurses, jobs that most Chinese are unwilling to fill. That deficit will grow over the next decade as China’s population ages. Most rich countries attract immigrants to perform such roles, yet in September China’s government reiterated that visas for unskilled or service-industry workers would be “strictly limited”.

A closed China willfully narrows its access to the global pool of professional talent. The government grants surprisingly few work visas. Foreigners made up 0.05% of the population in 2010, according to the World Bank, compared with 13% in America. A “green card” scheme was launched over a decade ago to attract overseas talent but only around 8,000 people qualified for one before 2013, the latest date for which figures exist. Many of these were former citizens with overseas passports, says Wang Huiyao of the Centre for China and Globalisation, a think-tank in Beijing.

Then follow a couple of paragraphs of the usual Economist Propaganda

Over the past century, China’s founding myth has been a source of strength. But as it looks forwards, China risks being borne back ceaselessly into its own past.

It’s fascinating how F. Scott Fitzgerald has been retconned into a Diversitarian.

Here’s what the Chinese think about diversity:

From my 2005 review in The American Conservative of Zhang Yi-mou’s film Hero:

Zhang, whose earlier movies were often censored, now has the full support of the Party, as his scenario shows.

“Hero” is vaguely based on a celebrated assassination attempt on the ruthless King of Qin. He ruled the most aggressive of the seven Warring States in the Third Century B.C. Subsequent Imperial historians have tended to demonize this pre-unification era as anarchic, thus justifying the Emperor’s monopoly on power. In truth, competition between the Warring States made this the most innovative era in Chinese history, just as European culture flourished during the centuries of state competition following the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, while it now is losing momentum under the orderly but uninspiring European Union. How many years has it been, for instance, since a European movie could compare to “Hero” in artistic ambition?

In “Hero,” the normally wary King of Qin suffers an unknown swordsman (played by martial arts whiz Jet Li) to approach within an unheard of ten paces of his throne to tell of how he killed the three famous assassins sent by the enemy state of Zhao. … Will the hitman get his revenge on the aggressor, or will he sheath his sword to spare the life of the only man brutal enough to unify “Our Land” (or as, other translations more ominously put it, “All Under Heaven”)?

The suspense might be tauter if you don’t already know that the King of Qin survived to become one of the most important figures in world history. In 221 B.C., he completed his conquest of the other Warring States and declared himself Qin Shi Huangdi, the “First Emperor of China.” Somewhere between Napoleon and Stalin on the Evil Tyrant-Meter, he imposed the relatively efficient but ultimately stultifying template of centralism that has held China back ever since.

Fortunately, the disunity of the Chinese during the 1970s allowed Deng glimpses from Mao’s mainland of madness of what Chinese people were accomplishing in Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong under sane government.

“Hero’s” Chinese-unity-uber-alles philosophy should seem ominous to the Taiwanese. Still, there’s little question that Zhang, the one time bad boy, has tapped into an authentic current of mounting Chinese national pride that has re-energized his art. In his drive to reimagine the founding myth of this emerging industrial and potential military superpower, Zhang’s movie might even bear comparison to the great nationalist operas of the 19th Century: “Hero” as visual Wagner.

 
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  1. I will admit to being concerned when people offer Israel, or China, as examples of how our society should be run. I’m in favor of increasing ethnic solidarity, but not to those degrees and not in those manners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    There can never be true nationalism under liberal democracy. A democratic society exists in a constant state of decline into degeneracy, even during "good times".

    Granted, all states decline over time. But the nature of democracy means that entropy is built into the system, because it gives undue political clout to women and social minorities by design.
    , @Lurker
    It's more a matter of China staying Chinese while we dissolve ourselves.
    , @Vince
    Israel and China are vastly different countries in terms of how they organize their society. The thing which they have in common, which is perhaps ethnocentricity and homogeneity, should not bother anyone. There can be a great variety in styles of government among a nation of people who wish to maintain the organic racial and cultural aspects of their society, and in fact they used to be the status quo before the multicultural experiment began. Why should any people debate over whether or not they will exist in the future? For White peoples, it is not even an acceptable topic of discussion because the elites have already made up their minds. If anything, that is what ought to concern you.
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  2. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    John Glenn has died


    http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/08/health/john-glenn-dead/

    A nice scene from The Right Stuff

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    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    1962-1964, the Apogee of America's civilization, one created exclusively by white Europeans. All the intelligence and aspirations of that civilization concentrated in the living consciousness of one man being projected into deep space in a Faustian quest in search of our ultimate source and destiny. Then come the outsiders, the grifters and parasites drawn by the prospect of looting; conniving to literally Steal the Thunder from the daring, brave white Europeans. Where is Thor when we need him?
  3. Over the past century, China’s founding myth has been a source of strength. But as it looks forwards, China risks being borne back ceaselessly into its own past.

    It’s fascinating how F. Scott Fitzgerald has been retconned into a Diversitarian.

    Indeed:

    God damn the continent of Europe. It is of merely antiquarian interest. Rome is only a few years behind Tyre and Babylon. The negroid streak creeps northward to defile the Nordic race. Already the Italians have the souls of blackamoors. Raise the bars of immigration and permit only Scandinavians, Teutons, Anglo-Saxons and Celts to enter. France made me sick. Its silly pose as the thing the world has to save. I think it’s a shame that England and America didn’t let Germany conquer Europe. It’s the only thing that would have saved the fleet of tottering old wrecks. (Letters 326)

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    • Replies: @Lin
    "Over the past century, China’s founding myth has been a source of strength. But as it looks forwards, China risks being borne back ceaselessly into its own past..."
    Among old civilisations with relatively well recorded history, Chinese can communicate with the past most readily. The average Chinese high school gradutaes can read classical text albeitly with some difficulty. The past is always there to remind us. That's why confucism needn't be institionised and instead diffused. Sharing common language, history and future destination is the core of Chinese identity, not worshipping the same gods, keeping old costume, diet taboo..
  4. If you accept the nationalist maxim that there is no state but ethnostate, then xenophobia and homogeneity are equivalent to the concept of nationhood.

    Barring crude personal insults, this definition of nationalism means that in the broader, systemic view, to be anti-racist is to be anti-nation, and therefore anti-civilization.

    The Economist, like most western publications, tries to slip in moral judgment on the grounds that those moral positions are normative:

    The conflation of Han and national identity

    Ethnicity and nationality are, and should be, interlinked as often as possible.

    China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes.

    Stupid. Diversity is the factor behind ethnic clashes. This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic’s.

    Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism…

    Hui are more assimilated, not integrated. They are indistinguishable from Han except for their religion. Most Hui today are descended from loyalist Muslims who had a strong sense of nationalism, and helped the government drive rebellious Muslims out of the country into central Asia.

    Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals…

    They shouldn’t be.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate “Enlightenment” values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate “Enlightenment” values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.
     
    I think the evidence yields that Enlightenment values work only when the population is thoroughly enlightened. The Coastal sorts (I refuse to call them elite in any meaningful sense) persist in their belief in the Enlightenment creed because they're exposed exclusively to the members of all races, creeds, and colors who are by breeding and education - often in the West - enlightened.
    , @Dave Pinsen

    This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic’s.
     
    Can you blame the minority at the same time you deny them their own ethnostate?
    , @Numinous
    "Han" is a manufactured ethnicity. Let the Cantonese have their own state (and the Tibetans, Uyghurs, Mongols, Manchus, it goes without saying.) Then we'll talk.
    , @alt-right liberal white
    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i'm assuming that you're a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don't think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren't. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i'm willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you're fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I'm shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn't hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don't give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don't see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you're a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn't hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn't hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates
    , @AndrewR
    Just admit it: you want to genocide all non-Han ethnic groups.
  5. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    OT

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/08/trump-labor-pick-favors-mass-immigration/

    Trump’s Labor Dept. Pick Slammed By Pro-American Immigration Reformers #NeverPuzder

    And praised by all the open-borders cheerleaders.

    You’d think Sessions would have made him pick Kirsanow, since he connects illegals to wage suppression.

    In case it wasn’t obvious from his failure at the debates to connect illegal immigration with jobs, his weakness on H1Bs until Bannon set him straight, his weakening on DREAMers the other day, and his choice for DHS head, Trump is totally cool with Indians taking our tech jobs and masses of low-skill Latinos driving wages down.

    He just has a problem with drug dealers and terrorists coming over the border. He likes building walls with big beautiful gold-plated doors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Berty
    I was wondering when the anonymous trolls would be returning.
  6. @melendwyr
    I will admit to being concerned when people offer Israel, or China, as examples of how our society should be run. I'm in favor of increasing ethnic solidarity, but not to those degrees and not in those manners.

    There can never be true nationalism under liberal democracy. A democratic society exists in a constant state of decline into degeneracy, even during “good times”.

    Granted, all states decline over time. But the nature of democracy means that entropy is built into the system, because it gives undue political clout to women and social minorities by design.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melendwyr
    I don't hold to the seemingly common position here that women having the vote is a bad thing. I don't see any evidence at all that women are systematically more foolish with their votes than men; men and women do tend to be foolish in slightly different ways, and so point to the errors the other sex makes which are absurd to them, while overlooking the foolishness they practice and seems 'reasonable' to them.

    Protecting minorities is, quite literally, what American-style representative democracy is intended to do. Granted that's using 'minority' in its technically correct sense, instead of the modern "politically powerful grudge-holder" meaning.
    , @Phil Lee
    Jason, ever considered joining Quora, it needs a diversity of opinions.

    Rest of you are invited, rather than lurking here.
  7. It should be noted that Dikotter is the same one who figured out the scale of deaths due to the sogenannte “Great Leap Forward” until the authorities figured out what he was up to. https://www.c-span.org/video/?297165-1/maos-great-famine

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  8. In an exhibition of “Xinjiang’s nationalities” in a museum in Urumqi, the provincial capital, the only person in modern clothes is Han; signs note that Chinese Uzbeks “have a special liking for all kinds of little caps”

    America delegated its MLK statue to a Chinese; imagine if we delegated the African American history museum to them too.

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    • Replies: @Not Raul
    LOL!

    Wouldn't it be funny if some city actually did it? Funny and instructive about China and, to some extent, Asia in general.
  9. @Jason Liu
    There can never be true nationalism under liberal democracy. A democratic society exists in a constant state of decline into degeneracy, even during "good times".

    Granted, all states decline over time. But the nature of democracy means that entropy is built into the system, because it gives undue political clout to women and social minorities by design.

    I don’t hold to the seemingly common position here that women having the vote is a bad thing. I don’t see any evidence at all that women are systematically more foolish with their votes than men; men and women do tend to be foolish in slightly different ways, and so point to the errors the other sex makes which are absurd to them, while overlooking the foolishness they practice and seems ‘reasonable’ to them.

    Protecting minorities is, quite literally, what American-style representative democracy is intended to do. Granted that’s using ‘minority’ in its technically correct sense, instead of the modern “politically powerful grudge-holder” meaning.

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    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    The point is that representative democracies overrepresent minority interests, which will eventually lead to the grudge-holding grievance industry you see today.

    It's pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country. If you're not a leftist, this is a terrible political disadvantage. And the foolishness of men and women are not really equatable.

    , @Stan
    Have you considered the subject of "Women's suffrage and the growth of the welfare state?'"
    , @Erik Sieven
    if civilization is what men do to attract women without being sexy, then giving women the possibility to change this deal might have consequences. It is another question whether these consequences are good or bad.
  10. Ummm China is extremely diverse.

    Outside of Hong Kong there are not many white people

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  11. I’m always bothered that China’s official policy that Chinese-ethnics never stop being Chinese-nationals is casually ignored in academia and professional engineering.

    I know that guy that stayed in the Lincoln bedroom is memory-holed, but no way do I believe Chinese had just one spy.

    Another thing not given its proper due was the drone the Iranians brought down. That took SERIOUS inside knowledge. Not a peep of responsibility anywhere.

    And another thing, China has their Great Wall of the Internet, why doesn’t the US with our oh-so-vaunted NSA not have our own Great Firewall of the Internet for Chinese and Russian sourced traffic. It’s totally do-able, but we do nothing. Why not? Blackmail?

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    • Replies: @CK
    "Sourced Traffic" those are weasel words for what? Which Chinese or Russian web sites do you wish to prohibit from the American DNS servers for the internet?
    That drone bring down took nothing beyond some RC knowledge.
    The responsible party was the unit piloting the drone.
    Even now, anti drone capabilities are spreading worldwide. A decade of drone superiority was about the best you could expect. That decade is ending.
    Mae East and Mae West can close off the internet traffic that flows through them, NSA, VOA, all the wonderous NGOs; but if the packets don't come through them they cannot do jack shit.
    So the Chinese believe that Chinese are Chinese. Knowing this should allow you to develop policies for yourself and your firm for dealing with them.
  12. @melendwyr
    I don't hold to the seemingly common position here that women having the vote is a bad thing. I don't see any evidence at all that women are systematically more foolish with their votes than men; men and women do tend to be foolish in slightly different ways, and so point to the errors the other sex makes which are absurd to them, while overlooking the foolishness they practice and seems 'reasonable' to them.

    Protecting minorities is, quite literally, what American-style representative democracy is intended to do. Granted that's using 'minority' in its technically correct sense, instead of the modern "politically powerful grudge-holder" meaning.

    The point is that representative democracies overrepresent minority interests, which will eventually lead to the grudge-holding grievance industry you see today.

    It’s pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country. If you’re not a leftist, this is a terrible political disadvantage. And the foolishness of men and women are not really equatable.

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    • Replies: @melendwyr
    I want to take the best of the Enlightenment and preserve it, while recognizing errors and abolishing them. Your idea of 'civilized' behavior isn't like two wolves ganging up on a lamb, it's two wolves ganging up on a weaker wolf and devouring it.

    China is notoriously corrupt. And historically it arrogantly stifles change and growth while ignoring everything outside its borders as inferior, all the while falling completely behind the world, clinging to past glories while abolishing the things that made them possible. Its attempts to reverse this decline were absurd. I see nothing about it that we should be seeking to emulate, copy, or adapt; it's a great object lesson in what not to do, no more.
    , @eD
    "It’s pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country."

    This is not correct, though around here I've noticed that its common to mangle the definition of "leftist" so that it can mean anything the commentator wants it to mean.

    Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. If I recall correctly the pattern holds in other countries with a socialist party. Its a minor data point, but the Tories have had two female leaders, as opposed to one interim female leader, while they figured out who would be the more permanent leader, for Labour.

    However, the overall pattern is that relative to men, women prefer the party the establishment prefers and which is more likely to maintain the status quo. In the US that happens to be the Democrats. Its traditional to regard the Democrats as "left" and the Republicans as "right", though using old (nineteenth century) political science terminology, if anything it should be the other way around, the Republicans are more likely to propose policy changes, and the Democrats more likely to enact policies, in regards to trade, immigration, and benefiting the financial sector, that increase the power and wealth of the upper classes relative to everyone else.
  13. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Tibetans esp don’t believe in it.

    Just ask the Dalai if he feels enriched by Han Chinese diversity.

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.

    Better to maintain borders and do trade with others and exchange ideas.

    Why exchange tons of people?

    We don’t need tons of Japanese here to have Japanese TV, we don’t need tons of Hindus here to have curry food, we don’t need tons of Chinese here to have firecrackers and Chinese tea.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Numinous

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.
     
    Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that "opting out", I suspect.

    Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron.
    , @DB Cooper
    "Just ask the Dalai if he feels enriched by Han Chinese diversity. "

    The Dalai Lama is a pretty sickening individual. WikiLeaks has revealed that for years he has been sending orphans under his care to go to war for India against Pakistan. Man of moral authority? Not!

  14. @Jason Liu
    If you accept the nationalist maxim that there is no state but ethnostate, then xenophobia and homogeneity are equivalent to the concept of nationhood.

    Barring crude personal insults, this definition of nationalism means that in the broader, systemic view, to be anti-racist is to be anti-nation, and therefore anti-civilization.

    The Economist, like most western publications, tries to slip in moral judgment on the grounds that those moral positions are normative:

    The conflation of Han and national identity
     
    Ethnicity and nationality are, and should be, interlinked as often as possible.

    China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes.
     
    Stupid. Diversity is the factor behind ethnic clashes. This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic's.

    Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism...
     
    Hui are more assimilated, not integrated. They are indistinguishable from Han except for their religion. Most Hui today are descended from loyalist Muslims who had a strong sense of nationalism, and helped the government drive rebellious Muslims out of the country into central Asia.

    Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals...
     
    They shouldn't be.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate "Enlightenment" values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate “Enlightenment” values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

    I think the evidence yields that Enlightenment values work only when the population is thoroughly enlightened. The Coastal sorts (I refuse to call them elite in any meaningful sense) persist in their belief in the Enlightenment creed because they’re exposed exclusively to the members of all races, creeds, and colors who are by breeding and education – often in the West – enlightened.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    The eventual political schism between GoodWhites and BadWhites is going to have world-altering consequences.
  15. When will the fact that the developed countries of the West are supposed to have their doors wide open to all while the rest of the world gets a free pass to do whatever they want in their own countries going to become a topic of discussion?

    It’s long overdue.

    The people of the rich West will never prosper again until it is.

    We are giving away the store to people who often wouldn’t allow allow our rich people who took up residence in their countries for decades to get our equivalent of a green card, much less citizenship with its voting privileges (in those places where people do vote, obviously China is not one of them).

    I knew China wasn’t big on immigration but its naturalization figures are a real shocker.

    The contrast to Japan is amazing, since Japan is notoriously hostile to newcomers.

    Thanks for bringing all this to my attention. It makes me look at China — and the Chinese so eager to come to the West — with new eyes.

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  16. @Jason Liu
    If you accept the nationalist maxim that there is no state but ethnostate, then xenophobia and homogeneity are equivalent to the concept of nationhood.

    Barring crude personal insults, this definition of nationalism means that in the broader, systemic view, to be anti-racist is to be anti-nation, and therefore anti-civilization.

    The Economist, like most western publications, tries to slip in moral judgment on the grounds that those moral positions are normative:

    The conflation of Han and national identity
     
    Ethnicity and nationality are, and should be, interlinked as often as possible.

    China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes.
     
    Stupid. Diversity is the factor behind ethnic clashes. This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic's.

    Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism...
     
    Hui are more assimilated, not integrated. They are indistinguishable from Han except for their religion. Most Hui today are descended from loyalist Muslims who had a strong sense of nationalism, and helped the government drive rebellious Muslims out of the country into central Asia.

    Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals...
     
    They shouldn't be.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate "Enlightenment" values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

    This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic’s.

    Can you blame the minority at the same time you deny them their own ethnostate?

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  17. @Jason Liu
    The point is that representative democracies overrepresent minority interests, which will eventually lead to the grudge-holding grievance industry you see today.

    It's pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country. If you're not a leftist, this is a terrible political disadvantage. And the foolishness of men and women are not really equatable.

    I want to take the best of the Enlightenment and preserve it, while recognizing errors and abolishing them. Your idea of ‘civilized’ behavior isn’t like two wolves ganging up on a lamb, it’s two wolves ganging up on a weaker wolf and devouring it.

    China is notoriously corrupt. And historically it arrogantly stifles change and growth while ignoring everything outside its borders as inferior, all the while falling completely behind the world, clinging to past glories while abolishing the things that made them possible. Its attempts to reverse this decline were absurd. I see nothing about it that we should be seeking to emulate, copy, or adapt; it’s a great object lesson in what not to do, no more.

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    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    That has nothing to do with what I said. Did you just want to engage in ethnic shitflinging?

    Nationalism is a human virtue, not limited to China or any other country. Even if your assessment of China is correct -- which, given its ethnic homogeneity and social hierarchy, says otherwise -- it is not a free-pass for western values to go uncriticized. The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.
  18. “A bit of tail (the Manchu Empire) wagging the dog (China) in Doctor Dikötter’s thinking.”

    Not necessarily. The Qianlong Emperor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianlong_Emperor; reigned 1735-1796) was very solicitous of the different nations he ruled. He mastered a number of his subjects’ languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianlong_Emperor#Languages) and commissioned the Pentaglot Dictionary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentaglot_Dictionary). Each entry in that dictionary was rendered in Chinese (=Han), Manchu, Tibetan, Mongolian, and Chagatai (a Turkestani language). Of course, the Qianlong Emperor also committed genocide when he thought the occasion merited it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide).

    The idea behind the Pentaglot Dictionary — a fivefold union of Han, Manchu, Tibetan, Mongolian, and Hui (=Chinese Moslem) — persisted into the era of the Chinese Republic. One of the republic’s founding principles was Five Races Under One Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Races_Under_One_Union). The national flag consisted of five colored stripes, one for each race.

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  19. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Diversity results from imperialism and conquest.

    Roman EMPIRE was diverse.

    Ottoman EMPIRE was diverse.

    British EMPIRE was diverse.

    Soviet EMPIRE was diverse.

    Spanish EMPIRE was diverse.

    I thought progs were guilty about past imperialism. Now, they are celebrating its fruits.

    Does it occur to the progs that blacks are part of American Diversity because of the conquest of Americas and the slave trade.

    Prog mentality: Damn that Columbus the imperialist but celebrate his legacy.

    In recent times, the Diversity is the result of neo-imperialism.
    Western imperialist nations created unstable crazy-quilt nations in Africa and the Middle East. The legacy of that is hell in Iraq, Libya, and Syria.
    And globo-imperialism of the US and its allies destroyed borders in the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe. So, Jihadis moved freely across nations and destroyed entire communities, and the refugees marched into Europe. Just great.

    Mass immigration is demographic imperialism. It is the result of the Great Betrayal by the Western elites who carried out the GREAT ABANDONMENT of their own peoples.
    White kids are now educated to spit on other whites, and white elites see white masses as ‘deplorables’.

    White elites abandoned white peoples. These traitor elites are collaborators with globalist imperialism that wages war on national sovereignty everywhere. For the time being, its flag is the Homo ‘rainbow’.

    Since white elites cucked out to globo-masters and abandoned their own peoples, the new Eurosphere movement must create a new vanguard elite that will represent, lead, and defend the identity and interests of the white masses.

    Imagine Israeli elites abandoning their own Jewish people in Israel and opening the gates to gentile invasion in the name of ‘inclusion’ and ‘diversity’.
    They would be like Herod and other Jews who cucked out to the Romans.

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  20. Also, note that the PRC government exempted ethnic minorities from the One-Child Policy. So, um, yeah, how does that favor Han ethno-whatever?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    It doesn't. Affirmative action is a dysfunctional policy inspired by western social engineering, and should be abolished.
  21. @Alec Leamas

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate “Enlightenment” values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.
     
    I think the evidence yields that Enlightenment values work only when the population is thoroughly enlightened. The Coastal sorts (I refuse to call them elite in any meaningful sense) persist in their belief in the Enlightenment creed because they're exposed exclusively to the members of all races, creeds, and colors who are by breeding and education - often in the West - enlightened.

    The eventual political schism between GoodWhites and BadWhites is going to have world-altering consequences.

    Read More
  22. Off-topic,

    Canada is going to put a Black woman their currency:

    Canada’s Finance Minister Bill Morneau and Bank of Canada governor Stephen Poloz announced today that Viola Desmond, black rights activist known by some as “Canada’s Rosa Parks” (even though her civil disobedience happened nine years before Parks’ action in the U.S.), will be the first Canadian woman on their $10 bill!

    Above, you can watch a video from the Historica Canada series, Heritage Minutes, in which they talk about the fateful day — November 8, 1946 — when 32-year-old Desmond decided to see a movie at the Roseland Theater in Nova Scotia while her car was being fixed. She was a beautician and a business woman, and so could afford the luxury of paying a bit more to sit in the orchestra section of the movie house, rather than in the balcony.

    However, that movie theater was segregated, and she was denied a ticket for the downstairs area of the theater. When she sat there anyway, she was arrested on the charge of not paying a one-cent tax (the difference in price between theater sections), despite the fact that she’d originally wanted to pay it in the first place. She was eventually released after paying $20 bail and $6 in court costs. While she attempted to appeal her conviction, she lost.
    et that small action, the first known legal action against segregation in Canada, was the catalyst for a larger civil rights movement in the country. She never had her conviction overturned in her lifetime, but as reported by CBSNews, “She was granted a free pardon posthumously in 2010 by former Nova Scotia lieutenant-governor Mayann Francis, the first black person to serve as the Queen’s representative in the province. The provincial government also issued a formal apology.”

    The nation continues to try to make it up to her and her family by selecting Desmond, first from a pool of 460 names selected by Canadians, then twelve names, then a short-list of five, for this honor.

    The Queen of England appears on the front of Canada’s bills, leaving the back of the bills free to honor important Canadians. While Desmond is the first woman on the $10, there have been other women, notably Thérèse Casgrain and a group of women who fought for women’s rights in Canada called The Famous Five — Louise Crummy McKinney, Irene Marryat Parlby, Nellie Mooney McClung, Henrietta Muir Edwards and Emily Murphy — who were on the back of the $50 bill between 2004 and 2012. Curiously, there only seems to be room for one woman on a bill at any one time.

    http://www.themarysue.com/feminism-around-the-world-viola-desmond-first-woman-on-canada-10-bill/

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    • Replies: @sb
    Wouldn't that be the Queen of Canada appearing on Canadian money ?
  23. 92% of China is Han? There are European countries that are threatened because 8% of their population is non-European.

    Of course that 8% non-European population has much higher birthrates.

    And those 8% non-Han population has… wait a minute… that 8% non-Han also has much higher birthrates.

    So when do Han become a minority in China? Gonna be interesting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    The 8% do not have a significantly higher birth rate. It's also an exaggerated estimate, usually the broadest definition of difference possible. Most Chinese minorities are well assimilated and are not "visible" minorities. Only the ones on the western fringes cause problems.
    , @ggg
    You know that if you are nonhan or part nonhan you basically get what is equivalent to a grade boost in Chinese universities right?
  24. The Han Chinese version of diversity is have overseas Chinese in so many Asian nations, European nations, America, Australia and so on. They function as listening outposts. And lets admit that too many of these overseas Chinese in places like America are spies and lite spies. Reporting back to the Han mother ship. Maybe eight years ago I read that the Mainland Chinese way of spying in the US was to cast a wide net and to get lite reports from many Chinese here, then piecing them together. Rather than getting a mega-score such as the complete plans for a new US stealth aircraft. Though they try this too.

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    • Replies: @Moses
    This is true.

    In business school my group-mate was Chinese Chinese. She told me point-blank that the Chinese government asked her for information, and that Americans were right to be suspicious of Chinese. She's a naturalized US citizen now, btw. I still wonder where her loyalties lie.

    In another b-school incident, another Chinese Chinese classmate asked me "You were in the Navy, right?" The way he asked me struck me as contrived, funny, out of place. Totally out of context at the time too.

    I got the feeling he was completing my dossier. The funniest thing was I've never been in the military nor would he have any reason to think I was.

  25. @melendwyr
    I want to take the best of the Enlightenment and preserve it, while recognizing errors and abolishing them. Your idea of 'civilized' behavior isn't like two wolves ganging up on a lamb, it's two wolves ganging up on a weaker wolf and devouring it.

    China is notoriously corrupt. And historically it arrogantly stifles change and growth while ignoring everything outside its borders as inferior, all the while falling completely behind the world, clinging to past glories while abolishing the things that made them possible. Its attempts to reverse this decline were absurd. I see nothing about it that we should be seeking to emulate, copy, or adapt; it's a great object lesson in what not to do, no more.

    That has nothing to do with what I said. Did you just want to engage in ethnic shitflinging?

    Nationalism is a human virtue, not limited to China or any other country. Even if your assessment of China is correct — which, given its ethnic homogeneity and social hierarchy, says otherwise — it is not a free-pass for western values to go uncriticized. The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.
     
    One shouldn't take the word of a Chinese nationalist seriously on this topic. He'd suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov't.

    Liu, why not move to China itself? It's clear you don't understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West. Don't confuse Jewish influence of the last 60 years with the Enlightenment.

    , @Olorin
    Says the Chinese nationalist.

    News flash:

    You don't belong in the Enlightenment republic my ancestors created.

    But that's OK, because China is big and atheist and non-Enlightenment...

    ...and I'm sure would welcome your magnificent Recognizing And Abolishing skills.

  26. @For what it's worth
    Also, note that the PRC government exempted ethnic minorities from the One-Child Policy. So, um, yeah, how does that favor Han ethno-whatever?

    It doesn’t. Affirmative action is a dysfunctional policy inspired by western social engineering, and should be abolished.

    Read More
  27. @anony-mouse
    92% of China is Han? There are European countries that are threatened because 8% of their population is non-European.

    Of course that 8% non-European population has much higher birthrates.

    And those 8% non-Han population has... wait a minute... that 8% non-Han also has much higher birthrates.

    So when do Han become a minority in China? Gonna be interesting.

    The 8% do not have a significantly higher birth rate. It’s also an exaggerated estimate, usually the broadest definition of difference possible. Most Chinese minorities are well assimilated and are not “visible” minorities. Only the ones on the western fringes cause problems.

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  28. Can you imagine an Economist article that read as follows:

    “Overseas Anglo-Saxons (along with their close cousins, the Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians) with foreign passports applying to immigrate to the USA are welcomed and accorded a special status. Anyone with this ancestry has legal advantages in getting a work visa; foreign-born children of these nationals get a leg-up in applying to American universities.

    This attitude has helped the US economy.”

    Seeing such a passage in the Economist or any other mainstream western media organ is unimaginable; yet the tone of this article suggests there’s nothing exceptionable about this approach if you’re talking about China; see the passage below, quoted directly from the article:

    Han Chinese with foreign passports are welcomed and accorded a special status. Anyone with Chinese ancestry has legal advantages in getting a work visa; foreign-born children of Chinese nationals get a leg-up in applying to universities.

    This attitude has helped the Chinese economy.

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  29. The part about China regarding Han living in neighboring countries as part of the nation caught my eye. Reminds me of Germany’s attitude towards ethnic Germans living in Czechoslovakia back in the 1930′s

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    • Replies: @CK
    There is a small difference between voluntarily living outside your country and having your country sundered so that you are now an exile in a foreign polity. That is another in the many examples of the Evils of Wilson the Self Righteous.
    , @Chuck
    Indeed. I wonder if China has of Law of Return.
  30. I believe “foreign devil” is a deliberate mis-translation.

    Yes. Chinese do call Westerners “foreign ghost.” Ghost as in “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.”

    But ghost is not devil just like the Holy Ghost of the Trinity is not the Devil. Westerners were never called “foreign devil”.

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    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Chinese do call Westerners “foreign ghost.” Ghost as in “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.”

     

    Uh, not exactly. I've lived in Hong Kong for over 25 years, and have been referred to by the term in question many, many, many times. Sometimes it's used without malice; sometimes there's no question it's meant to insult. It's never used in the tone of glorification you're suggesting.

    There's a much more polite term for westerners, i.e. 'sai yahn', literally 'west person', but it's not as popular as 'gwai louh', the term we're talking about.

    , @Peripatetic commenter

    But ghost is not devil just like the Holy Ghost of the Trinity is not the Devil. Westerners were never called “foreign devil”.
     
    You are crazy.

    At best it is a generic term for white foreigners. There is another term for blacks.
  31. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I hope they’ll take in their country at least the high-IQ part of the sane people that will be left in Europe by around year 2050.
    China, Russia, Japan, that’s why I expect sane Europeans will yearn after immigrating into.

    And were I 18 years old, I’d want to attend university in Japan or China already.

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  32. @anony-mouse
    92% of China is Han? There are European countries that are threatened because 8% of their population is non-European.

    Of course that 8% non-European population has much higher birthrates.

    And those 8% non-Han population has... wait a minute... that 8% non-Han also has much higher birthrates.

    So when do Han become a minority in China? Gonna be interesting.

    You know that if you are nonhan or part nonhan you basically get what is equivalent to a grade boost in Chinese universities right?

    Read More
  33. @Portlander
    I'm always bothered that China's official policy that Chinese-ethnics never stop being Chinese-nationals is casually ignored in academia and professional engineering.

    I know that guy that stayed in the Lincoln bedroom is memory-holed, but no way do I believe Chinese had just one spy.

    Another thing not given its proper due was the drone the Iranians brought down. That took SERIOUS inside knowledge. Not a peep of responsibility anywhere.

    And another thing, China has their Great Wall of the Internet, why doesn't the US with our oh-so-vaunted NSA not have our own Great Firewall of the Internet for Chinese and Russian sourced traffic. It's totally do-able, but we do nothing. Why not? Blackmail?

    “Sourced Traffic” those are weasel words for what? Which Chinese or Russian web sites do you wish to prohibit from the American DNS servers for the internet?
    That drone bring down took nothing beyond some RC knowledge.
    The responsible party was the unit piloting the drone.
    Even now, anti drone capabilities are spreading worldwide. A decade of drone superiority was about the best you could expect. That decade is ending.
    Mae East and Mae West can close off the internet traffic that flows through them, NSA, VOA, all the wonderous NGOs; but if the packets don’t come through them they cannot do jack shit.
    So the Chinese believe that Chinese are Chinese. Knowing this should allow you to develop policies for yourself and your firm for dealing with them.

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  34. @Luke Lea
    The part about China regarding Han living in neighboring countries as part of the nation caught my eye. Reminds me of Germany's attitude towards ethnic Germans living in Czechoslovakia back in the 1930's

    There is a small difference between voluntarily living outside your country and having your country sundered so that you are now an exile in a foreign polity. That is another in the many examples of the Evils of Wilson the Self Righteous.

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  35. @ltlee
    I believe “foreign devil” is a deliberate mis-translation.

    Yes. Chinese do call Westerners "foreign ghost." Ghost as in "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

    But ghost is not devil just like the Holy Ghost of the Trinity is not the Devil. Westerners were never called "foreign devil".

    Chinese do call Westerners “foreign ghost.” Ghost as in “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.”

    Uh, not exactly. I’ve lived in Hong Kong for over 25 years, and have been referred to by the term in question many, many, many times. Sometimes it’s used without malice; sometimes there’s no question it’s meant to insult. It’s never used in the tone of glorification you’re suggesting.

    There’s a much more polite term for westerners, i.e. ‘sai yahn’, literally ‘west person’, but it’s not as popular as ‘gwai louh’, the term we’re talking about.

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  36. Sounds like the Chinese need a Han Merkel to bless their country with refugees…

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  37. The term “foreign devil” comes up now and then.

    鬼佬 is a 广东话ism. (That is, gwai2 lo5 — foreign or ghost devil — a Cantonese thing.)

    在中国他们说老外或者外国人。

    That is, in China they use lao3wai4 or wai4guo2ren2.

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    • Replies: @Mouren
    Laowai or Waiguoren are neutral terms, if a mainland Chinese person wants to curse/ talk bad about foreigners (specifically white people) he uses the term Yangguizi (洋鬼子), which does translate to foreign ghost or foreign devil.
    The equivalent term for black people would be Heiguizi (黑鬼子), black devil or black ghost.
  38. As a result, the most populous nation on Earth has only 1,448 naturalised Chinese in total, according to the 2010 census.

    One of those was Sidney Shapiro. Guess where he came from?

    There were a handful of other foreigners who made a go of it in China.

    Israel Epstein
    Sidney Rittenberg
    Frank Coe
    Solomon Adler
    Jakob Rosenfeld

    Notice anything?

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  39. It’s not true that Han Chinese hold all of the minorities in contempt (open or otherwise). In northeastern China, Jilin Province, Yanbian Prefecture, the population is, in some areas, north of 50% ethnic Korean (though it’s declining). There are state universities that teach completely in Korean and they have Korean K-12 schools.

    If anything, in that area, it’s the Koreans who look down on the ethnic Chinese. Now that flights are opening up to South Korea, many Koreans go there looking for work or just for shopping. They have brought investment in from South Korea and generally take the view that the Chinese are shiftless and on the stupid side.

    The Chinese don’t reciprocate though. They take the Koreans quite seriously and generally try to get on well with them. In my experience, the big three of east Asia, the Chinese, the Japanese and the Koreans have a healthy respect for each other, in all areas. The rest of the continent, not so much. Europeans they hold in fairly high regard across the board, but they reserve their highest admiration for Jews.

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    • Replies: @ggg
    China should have some sort of points based immigration system like Australia or Canada, or maybe it can take in Mexicans and Latin Americans, since its labour force is aging rapidly due to the one child policy. Japan is actually opening up its labor force to guest workers from Asia if you read news reports.
    , @Kyle McKenna
    And yet Den Fujita's Japanese best-seller "The Jewish way of doing business" remains untranslated...
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    When I lived in Japan, almost thirty years ago, the Japanese regarded both Koreans and Chinese as obvious inferiors. If it hadn't been for the US and the atomic bomb, both Korea and much of China would still be under Japanese rule today, or so many Japanese liked to believe. Maybe attitudes have had adjust to reality given the dramatic growth in South Korea and the PRC over the last few decades, but I suspect they haven't really changed that much.
  40. @Luke Lea
    The part about China regarding Han living in neighboring countries as part of the nation caught my eye. Reminds me of Germany's attitude towards ethnic Germans living in Czechoslovakia back in the 1930's

    Indeed. I wonder if China has of Law of Return.

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  41. @ltlee
    I believe “foreign devil” is a deliberate mis-translation.

    Yes. Chinese do call Westerners "foreign ghost." Ghost as in "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

    But ghost is not devil just like the Holy Ghost of the Trinity is not the Devil. Westerners were never called "foreign devil".

    But ghost is not devil just like the Holy Ghost of the Trinity is not the Devil. Westerners were never called “foreign devil”.

    You are crazy.

    At best it is a generic term for white foreigners. There is another term for blacks.

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  42. @Anonymous
    OT

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/12/08/trump-labor-pick-favors-mass-immigration/


    Trump’s Labor Dept. Pick Slammed By Pro-American Immigration Reformers #NeverPuzder
     
    And praised by all the open-borders cheerleaders.

    You'd think Sessions would have made him pick Kirsanow, since he connects illegals to wage suppression.

    In case it wasn't obvious from his failure at the debates to connect illegal immigration with jobs, his weakness on H1Bs until Bannon set him straight, his weakening on DREAMers the other day, and his choice for DHS head, Trump is totally cool with Indians taking our tech jobs and masses of low-skill Latinos driving wages down.

    He just has a problem with drug dealers and terrorists coming over the border. He likes building walls with big beautiful gold-plated doors.

    I was wondering when the anonymous trolls would be returning.

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  43. @Jason Liu
    The point is that representative democracies overrepresent minority interests, which will eventually lead to the grudge-holding grievance industry you see today.

    It's pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country. If you're not a leftist, this is a terrible political disadvantage. And the foolishness of men and women are not really equatable.

    “It’s pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country.”

    This is not correct, though around here I’ve noticed that its common to mangle the definition of “leftist” so that it can mean anything the commentator wants it to mean.

    Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. If I recall correctly the pattern holds in other countries with a socialist party. Its a minor data point, but the Tories have had two female leaders, as opposed to one interim female leader, while they figured out who would be the more permanent leader, for Labour.

    However, the overall pattern is that relative to men, women prefer the party the establishment prefers and which is more likely to maintain the status quo. In the US that happens to be the Democrats. Its traditional to regard the Democrats as “left” and the Republicans as “right”, though using old (nineteenth century) political science terminology, if anything it should be the other way around, the Republicans are more likely to propose policy changes, and the Democrats more likely to enact policies, in regards to trade, immigration, and benefiting the financial sector, that increase the power and wealth of the upper classes relative to everyone else.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ggg
    Why did so many men vote for amnesty king bush, raegan, and romney
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. "

    Not any more. This certainly used to be the case 60 years ago. At the last election the Labour vote was (small) majority female and the Tory and UKIP votes were (small, though UKIP gap was larger) majority male.

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3575/How-Britain-voted-in-2015.aspx

    IMHO it's more that small-l liberalism is now the dominant culture, as small-c conservatism was 60 years ago.

    Attlee's Labour Britain of 1945-50, where misbehaving children were caned, homosexuals and abortionists were imprisoned, murderers were hanged and women generally left the workforce on marriage - but tax rates were very high and a welfare state was created, would seem more like National Socialism today.

    Women have a higher tendency to 'go along to get along'*, so they'll vote more for the party that represents the dominant culture, or 'the winning side' if you wish.

    * see http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Btw, did the Globalist say that China's lack of diversity was responsible for its terrible economic stagnation ;-)

    , @Buck Turgidson
    Perhaps you could provide illumination on the correct (yours, I suppose) definition of "leftist". You know how those of us "around here" can be. Thanks
  44. One thing I have learned about in the last five years is there are Han and some subgroups.

    There largest “tribe” are the Hakka, who fled from the north of China to the south after some disaster in the middle ages. Google Hakka and there will be some explanation.

    Anyway, a lot of the Han diaspora are Hakka. Hakka did not bind feet. Plus there is another Cantonese non Hakka diaspora. I think Hong Kong politics is riven on this ethnic? line most of the time.

    I also think much of the Chinese diaspora is the Cantonese speaking trading caste.

    But I welcome correction since finding out about this stuff as a white devil is hard.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    You are right to admit your ignorance. China is a world, and most people in the West know so very little about it, we don't even realize how ignorant we are.

    So here's one correction to your guess that the Chinese diaspora is Cantonese: a big part of the sizable Chinese community in France is from Wenzhou. Go find that on the map :-) (it's the southernmost prefecture of Zhejiang, if that's any help). They speak Wenzhounese, "nicknamed the 'Devil's Language' for its complexity and difficulty". Yes, they make Mandarin look easy :-) A Chinese friend from Shenyang and Shanghai seemed to look down on them as yokels when he was in Paris, but I probably missed something.

    Another correction: Hokkien is a big language in some overseas Chinese communities, e.g. Singapore. Those Chinese would originally hail from Fujian, I guess.

    Perhaps saying "most of the Chinese diaspora is Cantonese" is like saying "most of the European diaspora is English"... Not wholly wrong, not far from what many not specially world-wise Asians may think, but a bit of a coarse approximation nonetheless!

    Don't worry about diversity in China. They have plenty of it, you just don't see it!

    , @Tex
    IIRC, the Hakka were in a state of general antagonism and feuding with the Punti, a S. Chinese group in the mid-19th C. The rivalry played a big part in starting the T'ai Ping Rebellion. The T'ai Pings were a religious group founded by Hong Hsiu-ch'uan, a Hakka from S. China. He was an educated type, destined for a civil service career, and a convert to Christianity. He failed his exams and got very sick. When he recovered he announced he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ come to give them Chinese some gospel preaching.

    Long story short, the authorities cracked down on the T'ai Pings, the T'ai Pings fight back, all hell breaks loose. A few million casualties later peace is restored because everybody's dead. Somewhere along the line the Hakkas and the Puntis have it out.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "largest “tribe” are the Hakka"

    But the Hakka are themselves Han.

    Sounds like a 1980s hit - Hakka Han. Hakka Han. Hakka Han ...
  45. @eD
    "It’s pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country."

    This is not correct, though around here I've noticed that its common to mangle the definition of "leftist" so that it can mean anything the commentator wants it to mean.

    Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. If I recall correctly the pattern holds in other countries with a socialist party. Its a minor data point, but the Tories have had two female leaders, as opposed to one interim female leader, while they figured out who would be the more permanent leader, for Labour.

    However, the overall pattern is that relative to men, women prefer the party the establishment prefers and which is more likely to maintain the status quo. In the US that happens to be the Democrats. Its traditional to regard the Democrats as "left" and the Republicans as "right", though using old (nineteenth century) political science terminology, if anything it should be the other way around, the Republicans are more likely to propose policy changes, and the Democrats more likely to enact policies, in regards to trade, immigration, and benefiting the financial sector, that increase the power and wealth of the upper classes relative to everyone else.

    Why did so many men vote for amnesty king bush, raegan, and romney

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Why did so many men vote for amnesty king bush, raegan, and romney
     
    Because the alternatives were Gore, Carter and Mondale, Obama. Now get back up on the turnip truck.
  46. Women voted for Obama, in droves, and married respectable White women in the NYT wrote of their sexual fantasies about Obama. Women decisively voted for the Left candidate over the Freedom Party dude in Austria, effectively voting to turn over the nation to Muslim invaders. Women enthusiastically supported the Merkel Youth invasion, and still do; the people angry about it are MEN.

    Trump took White women by 53%, but that is more a feature of depressed turnout for the Dowager Empress among educated White professional women who despise Trump, and increased White working class women voting their pocketbook and not social status mongering.

    At one point during polling, Trump had a twenty point deficit among educated White women, a demo that (President) Romney took by 15 points. Trump made the smart call, betting increased turnout among White male voters would beat a lack-luster Hillary who was a turn-off in every respect though with far better and more experienced voter turnout people; to Trump’s largely social media campaign. But Trump was and is extraordinary, a media force and so sui generis.

    Between say, charisma challenged Kris Kobach or Jeff Sessions, and say Nancy Pelosi, you’d be seeing President Pelosi. Because women vote hard left consistently and certainly in the US.

    This is a function of singleton or duration of marriage; a woman married for ten years or less will view her husband as far more disposable (a long term lease, basically) than one married for twenty years. Even among singles, White men vote conservative far more than women. White women are after all part of the Diversity coalition; allied against White men in the desire for spoils with Blacks, gays, Muslims, etc.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Because women vote hard left consistently
     
    Women vote for the party that has the moral high ground. Until a few decades ago conservative parties occupied the moral high ground. Now it's the globalists/SJWs who hold that position.

    The problem is that social conservatism and opposition to immigration sounds mean and nasty. A way has to be found to make the social conservative and anti-immigration positions seem warm and cuddly and virtuous and unselfish.

    There's another reason women don't support so-called conservative parties like the Republicans. They believe those parties stand for greed, callousness and the destruction of the welfare state. And they're right.
  47. @Deckin
    It's not true that Han Chinese hold all of the minorities in contempt (open or otherwise). In northeastern China, Jilin Province, Yanbian Prefecture, the population is, in some areas, north of 50% ethnic Korean (though it's declining). There are state universities that teach completely in Korean and they have Korean K-12 schools.

    If anything, in that area, it's the Koreans who look down on the ethnic Chinese. Now that flights are opening up to South Korea, many Koreans go there looking for work or just for shopping. They have brought investment in from South Korea and generally take the view that the Chinese are shiftless and on the stupid side.

    The Chinese don't reciprocate though. They take the Koreans quite seriously and generally try to get on well with them. In my experience, the big three of east Asia, the Chinese, the Japanese and the Koreans have a healthy respect for each other, in all areas. The rest of the continent, not so much. Europeans they hold in fairly high regard across the board, but they reserve their highest admiration for Jews.

    China should have some sort of points based immigration system like Australia or Canada, or maybe it can take in Mexicans and Latin Americans, since its labour force is aging rapidly due to the one child policy. Japan is actually opening up its labor force to guest workers from Asia if you read news reports.

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  48. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Canada is going to put a Black woman their currency:

    Canada’s Finance Minister Bill Morneau and Bank of Canada governor Stephen Poloz announced today that Viola Desmond, black rights activist known by some as “Canada’s Rosa Parks” (even though her civil disobedience happened nine years before Parks’ action in the U.S.), will be the first Canadian woman on their $10 bill!

    Above, you can watch a video from the Historica Canada series, Heritage Minutes, in which they talk about the fateful day — November 8, 1946 — when 32-year-old Desmond decided to see a movie at the Roseland Theater in Nova Scotia while her car was being fixed. She was a beautician and a business woman, and so could afford the luxury of paying a bit more to sit in the orchestra section of the movie house, rather than in the balcony.

    However, that movie theater was segregated, and she was denied a ticket for the downstairs area of the theater. When she sat there anyway, she was arrested on the charge of not paying a one-cent tax (the difference in price between theater sections), despite the fact that she’d originally wanted to pay it in the first place. She was eventually released after paying $20 bail and $6 in court costs. While she attempted to appeal her conviction, she lost.
    et that small action, the first known legal action against segregation in Canada, was the catalyst for a larger civil rights movement in the country. She never had her conviction overturned in her lifetime, but as reported by CBSNews, “She was granted a free pardon posthumously in 2010 by former Nova Scotia lieutenant-governor Mayann Francis, the first black person to serve as the Queen’s representative in the province. The provincial government also issued a formal apology.”

    The nation continues to try to make it up to her and her family by selecting Desmond, first from a pool of 460 names selected by Canadians, then twelve names, then a short-list of five, for this honor.

    The Queen of England appears on the front of Canada’s bills, leaving the back of the bills free to honor important Canadians. While Desmond is the first woman on the $10, there have been other women, notably Thérèse Casgrain and a group of women who fought for women’s rights in Canada called The Famous Five — Louise Crummy McKinney, Irene Marryat Parlby, Nellie Mooney McClung, Henrietta Muir Edwards and Emily Murphy — who were on the back of the $50 bill between 2004 and 2012. Curiously, there only seems to be room for one woman on a bill at any one time.

     

    http://www.themarysue.com/feminism-around-the-world-viola-desmond-first-woman-on-canada-10-bill/

    Wouldn’t that be the Queen of Canada appearing on Canadian money ?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Wouldn’t that be the Queen of Canada appearing on Canadian money ?
     
    One side.Viola Desmond goes on the other.
  49. It would actually be better for the capital to be moved to Chang An or Luoyang since it has more of a historical legacy than Beijing. And for the KMT and CPC to form a power sharing government.

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  50. @Clyde
    The Han Chinese version of diversity is have overseas Chinese in so many Asian nations, European nations, America, Australia and so on. They function as listening outposts. And lets admit that too many of these overseas Chinese in places like America are spies and lite spies. Reporting back to the Han mother ship. Maybe eight years ago I read that the Mainland Chinese way of spying in the US was to cast a wide net and to get lite reports from many Chinese here, then piecing them together. Rather than getting a mega-score such as the complete plans for a new US stealth aircraft. Though they try this too.

    This is true.

    In business school my group-mate was Chinese Chinese. She told me point-blank that the Chinese government asked her for information, and that Americans were right to be suspicious of Chinese. She’s a naturalized US citizen now, btw. I still wonder where her loyalties lie.

    In another b-school incident, another Chinese Chinese classmate asked me “You were in the Navy, right?” The way he asked me struck me as contrived, funny, out of place. Totally out of context at the time too.

    I got the feeling he was completing my dossier. The funniest thing was I’ve never been in the military nor would he have any reason to think I was.

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  51. “Gary Locke, the first Chinese-American ambassador to Beijing in 2011-14, was repeatedly criticised by state media for doing his job…”

    At least one newspaper referred to Locke as “a “banana” – a racial term for Asians identifying with Western values despite their skin color…”when a banana sits out for long, its yellow peels will always rot, not only revealing its white core but also turning into the stomach-churning color of black,” read the China News Service editorial.

    http://komonews.com/news/local/china-calls-departing-us-envoy-gary-locke-a-rotten-banana-11-21-2015

    Sounds unlikely that the Chinese have a law of return.

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  52. China struggles to accept that descendants of Chinese emigrants may feel no obligation to reflect China’s interests. Gary Locke, the first Chinese-American ambassador to Beijing in 2011-14, was repeatedly criticised by state media for doing his job—representing American interests, even if they conflicted with China’s.

    What Americans DO NOT GET is that to Chinese (and pretty much everyone outside of white Western countries) race=nation.

    Appointing Gary Locke ambassador to China was a huge mistake. They basically viewed him as a race traitor.

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    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    What Americans DO NOT GET is that to Chinese (and pretty much everyone outside of white Western countries) race=nation.

    Appointing Gary Locke ambassador to China was a huge mistake. They basically viewed him as a race traitor.
     
    Critically-important material there, which--thanks to our MSM blackout of inconvenient facts--will never be known to Americans.

    We do the same thing with respect to our ambassadors in many other countries. It's just the Ruling Class of the USA preening about our Virtuous Diversity. Not everyone else will see it that way.
  53. @ggg
    Why did so many men vote for amnesty king bush, raegan, and romney

    Why did so many men vote for amnesty king bush, raegan, and romney

    Because the alternatives were Gore, Carter and Mondale, Obama. Now get back up on the turnip truck.

    Read More
    • Replies: @shhs
    Gore would not have got into Iraq, or would be content at lobbing a few cruise missiles and air strikes like desert fox, is that a bad thing? And no bush tax cuts or bush deficits.
  54. @melendwyr
    I don't hold to the seemingly common position here that women having the vote is a bad thing. I don't see any evidence at all that women are systematically more foolish with their votes than men; men and women do tend to be foolish in slightly different ways, and so point to the errors the other sex makes which are absurd to them, while overlooking the foolishness they practice and seems 'reasonable' to them.

    Protecting minorities is, quite literally, what American-style representative democracy is intended to do. Granted that's using 'minority' in its technically correct sense, instead of the modern "politically powerful grudge-holder" meaning.

    Have you considered the subject of “Women’s suffrage and the growth of the welfare state?’”

    Read More
    • Replies: @melendwyr
    Or "women's suffrage and Prohibition". Oh, I know, I know.

    As I said before, men notice characteristically female foolishness, but disregard characteristically male foolishness. It's 'normal', and unremarkable.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Women voted more Republican than men until the 1970s.

    In the UK, suffragists warned parliamentarian allies never to allow women to vote on the issue, as suffrage would get creamed worse than had only men voted. They studied the results in Western states.

    Women fear change more than men do. Which is why so many voted More of the Same this year.
    , @Antonymous
    A far better correlation could be made for socialist/deconstructionist politics and growth of the welfare state -- or growth of non-western immigration, non-white preferences, and identity politics itself. Who promoted such policies?

    Women voted conservatively for the first 60 years of the franchise. Feminism and identity politics have used women (and minorities) against the mainstream, a useful-idiot wedge. If white men had been feted, as indeed they've been for neo-con wars, I imagine men too would be a malleable voting block.

  55. @Deckin
    It's not true that Han Chinese hold all of the minorities in contempt (open or otherwise). In northeastern China, Jilin Province, Yanbian Prefecture, the population is, in some areas, north of 50% ethnic Korean (though it's declining). There are state universities that teach completely in Korean and they have Korean K-12 schools.

    If anything, in that area, it's the Koreans who look down on the ethnic Chinese. Now that flights are opening up to South Korea, many Koreans go there looking for work or just for shopping. They have brought investment in from South Korea and generally take the view that the Chinese are shiftless and on the stupid side.

    The Chinese don't reciprocate though. They take the Koreans quite seriously and generally try to get on well with them. In my experience, the big three of east Asia, the Chinese, the Japanese and the Koreans have a healthy respect for each other, in all areas. The rest of the continent, not so much. Europeans they hold in fairly high regard across the board, but they reserve their highest admiration for Jews.

    And yet Den Fujita’s Japanese best-seller “The Jewish way of doing business” remains untranslated…

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  56. @Moses

    China struggles to accept that descendants of Chinese emigrants may feel no obligation to reflect China’s interests. Gary Locke, the first Chinese-American ambassador to Beijing in 2011-14, was repeatedly criticised by state media for doing his job—representing American interests, even if they conflicted with China’s.
     
    What Americans DO NOT GET is that to Chinese (and pretty much everyone outside of white Western countries) race=nation.

    Appointing Gary Locke ambassador to China was a huge mistake. They basically viewed him as a race traitor.

    What Americans DO NOT GET is that to Chinese (and pretty much everyone outside of white Western countries) race=nation.

    Appointing Gary Locke ambassador to China was a huge mistake. They basically viewed him as a race traitor.

    Critically-important material there, which–thanks to our MSM blackout of inconvenient facts–will never be known to Americans.

    We do the same thing with respect to our ambassadors in many other countries. It’s just the Ruling Class of the USA preening about our Virtuous Diversity. Not everyone else will see it that way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Giant Goose
    I understand there's a similar issue when the U.S. sends the descendants of slaves (i.e. African-Americans) as ambassadors to certain African countries. Far from having a special affinity with local elites, they're regarded with contempt because of their lowly origins.
  57. @Peripatetic commenter

    The term “foreign devil” comes up now and then.
     
    鬼佬 is a 广东话ism. (That is, gwai2 lo5 -- foreign or ghost devil -- a Cantonese thing.)

    在中国他们说老外或者外国人。

    That is, in China they use lao3wai4 or wai4guo2ren2.

    Laowai or Waiguoren are neutral terms, if a mainland Chinese person wants to curse/ talk bad about foreigners (specifically white people) he uses the term Yangguizi (洋鬼子), which does translate to foreign ghost or foreign devil.
    The equivalent term for black people would be Heiguizi (黑鬼子), black devil or black ghost.

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    • Replies: @Adar.
    The word Yankee is often said to have an origin in the corruption of the Chinese word for white faced devil. That is us.
  58. @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Why did so many men vote for amnesty king bush, raegan, and romney
     
    Because the alternatives were Gore, Carter and Mondale, Obama. Now get back up on the turnip truck.

    Gore would not have got into Iraq, or would be content at lobbing a few cruise missiles and air strikes like desert fox, is that a bad thing? And no bush tax cuts or bush deficits.

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    • Replies: @Not Raul
    I agree.

    And Gore, as a practical Southern gentleman, wouldn't have gotten the black folks riled up like Obama did.

    He probably would have been a pretty good President. A little on the dorky side; but so what.
  59. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    That’s why China is the main enemy of the US now, because it doesn’t believe in things like diversity. If they were poor and inconsequential, it’d be fine for them to not believe in diversity. But they’re getting too rich and powerful now, and that coupled with not believing in diversity is not really tolerable.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    That’s why China is the main enemy of the US now, because it doesn’t believe in things like diversity.
     
    China is the main enemy of the US now, because it doesn’t believe in things like acknowledging the god-given right of the US to run the world. It's a challenge to American hegemony.

    American elites don't care about diversity. Diversity is just a weapon. A weapon to be used against other nations and a weapon to be used against the American people.

    It's all about power.

    The Chinese are so evil they don't even believe in American exceptionalism! Clearly they must be destroyed.
  60. A person in China once gave me a pithy description of Emperor Qin, China’s first and most important emperor, who united China, burned most books, imposed a single script, and buried scholars alive. This Chinese person smilingly told me, “Emperor Qin was a bit like your Hitler, but 2000 years ago, and if Hitler had won”.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Shi_Huang#As_the_Emperor_of_Qin

    I guess the Chinese really only had one Reich. And despite a few bumps along the way, they have long passed the thousand-year mark, twice.

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Third_Reich#Names

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    • Replies: @Adar.
    The Chinese ideal of the benevolent dictator. You can wonder if Chin was benevolent but nonetheless without question a "strong" man.

    Big Father knows what is best for Little Child.
    , @Peripatetic commenter
    So, will China be good for the Jews?
  61. @Hodag
    One thing I have learned about in the last five years is there are Han and some subgroups.

    There largest "tribe" are the Hakka, who fled from the north of China to the south after some disaster in the middle ages. Google Hakka and there will be some explanation.

    Anyway, a lot of the Han diaspora are Hakka. Hakka did not bind feet. Plus there is another Cantonese non Hakka diaspora. I think Hong Kong politics is riven on this ethnic? line most of the time.

    I also think much of the Chinese diaspora is the Cantonese speaking trading caste.

    But I welcome correction since finding out about this stuff as a white devil is hard.

    You are right to admit your ignorance. China is a world, and most people in the West know so very little about it, we don’t even realize how ignorant we are.

    So here’s one correction to your guess that the Chinese diaspora is Cantonese: a big part of the sizable Chinese community in France is from Wenzhou. Go find that on the map :-) (it’s the southernmost prefecture of Zhejiang, if that’s any help). They speak Wenzhounese, “nicknamed the ‘Devil’s Language’ for its complexity and difficulty”. Yes, they make Mandarin look easy :-) A Chinese friend from Shenyang and Shanghai seemed to look down on them as yokels when he was in Paris, but I probably missed something.

    Another correction: Hokkien is a big language in some overseas Chinese communities, e.g. Singapore. Those Chinese would originally hail from Fujian, I guess.

    Perhaps saying “most of the Chinese diaspora is Cantonese” is like saying “most of the European diaspora is English”… Not wholly wrong, not far from what many not specially world-wise Asians may think, but a bit of a coarse approximation nonetheless!

    Don’t worry about diversity in China. They have plenty of it, you just don’t see it!

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    • Replies: @27 year old
    Don't shanghainese look down on people from everywhere else as yokels?
  62. The birth tourism industry explained:
    … foreign-born children of Chinese nationals get a leg-up in applying to universities.

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  63. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    No one with a brain can doubt that China will be far far richer than, collectively, the EU nations, (if that abomination still exists), will be in the year 2050, both in absolute terms and in terms of per capita income.

    Thomas Piketty said that by mid-century Europe will be ‘required’ to absorb Africa’s surplus population, which, of course, by that time will vastly outnumber the number of ethnic Europeans living. Per capita income is a reasonable correlation of ‘absorbtion capacity’ of unproductive immigrants. Thus by 2050 China will, in theory, be able to absorb vastly more Africans than Europe.

    I doubt whether Piketty will make his demands to China.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I'll doubt it, for two reasons.

    The first is I doubt mass 3rd world immigration to Europe will continue. The political revolt against it has already started.

    The second is it's not clear that modern, 1st world Chinese civilization (of the sort in Singapore, Taiwan, or Hong Kong) can scale to continental size.
  64. @eD
    "It’s pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country."

    This is not correct, though around here I've noticed that its common to mangle the definition of "leftist" so that it can mean anything the commentator wants it to mean.

    Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. If I recall correctly the pattern holds in other countries with a socialist party. Its a minor data point, but the Tories have had two female leaders, as opposed to one interim female leader, while they figured out who would be the more permanent leader, for Labour.

    However, the overall pattern is that relative to men, women prefer the party the establishment prefers and which is more likely to maintain the status quo. In the US that happens to be the Democrats. Its traditional to regard the Democrats as "left" and the Republicans as "right", though using old (nineteenth century) political science terminology, if anything it should be the other way around, the Republicans are more likely to propose policy changes, and the Democrats more likely to enact policies, in regards to trade, immigration, and benefiting the financial sector, that increase the power and wealth of the upper classes relative to everyone else.

    “Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. “

    Not any more. This certainly used to be the case 60 years ago. At the last election the Labour vote was (small) majority female and the Tory and UKIP votes were (small, though UKIP gap was larger) majority male.

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3575/How-Britain-voted-in-2015.aspx

    IMHO it’s more that small-l liberalism is now the dominant culture, as small-c conservatism was 60 years ago.

    Attlee’s Labour Britain of 1945-50, where misbehaving children were caned, homosexuals and abortionists were imprisoned, murderers were hanged and women generally left the workforce on marriage – but tax rates were very high and a welfare state was created, would seem more like National Socialism today.

    Women have a higher tendency to ‘go along to get along’*, so they’ll vote more for the party that represents the dominant culture, or ‘the winning side’ if you wish.

    * see http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Btw, did the Globalist say that China’s lack of diversity was responsible for its terrible economic stagnation ;-)

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Of course, the Attlee Government passed the 1948 Commonwealth Immigration Act - *the* single measure which led to Britain's multiracial society.
    Possibly, the massive third world immigration was never intended, but was the result of sheer plain ignorance and stupidity.
    Incidentally, the SS Empire Windrush docked in Southampton in 1948. Contrary to popular belief the Jamaican immigrants were never 'invited' in by the UK government to 'help rebuild the country after the war' or to 'fill a labor shortage', they purely and simply were chancers and hustlers.
    In fact, the Labour government wished them gone - but couldn't do anything because of the legislation they had passed.
    Sounds familiar?
    , @Dr. X

    Attlee’s Labour Britain of 1945-50, where misbehaving children were caned, homosexuals and abortionists were imprisoned, murderers were hanged and women generally left the workforce on marriage – but tax rates were very high and a welfare state was created, would seem more like National Socialism today.
     
    Arguably, in s0me ways Attlee's Labour government was more socialist than National Socialism. They nationalized just about every major industry in the UK -- coal, steel, rail, auto, communications, etc. I'm not aware of any other Western nation where the government nationalized more of the private sector. If the UK had been a Third World country, the U.S. would have invaded it or overthrown its government during the Cold War for nationalizing that many industries.
  65. @notsaying: Most of those 10,000/y naturalized in Japan are children and grandchildren of zainichi Koreans, born and brought up in Japan, who often don’t know any Korean and are almost indistinguishable from natives.

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  66. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. "

    Not any more. This certainly used to be the case 60 years ago. At the last election the Labour vote was (small) majority female and the Tory and UKIP votes were (small, though UKIP gap was larger) majority male.

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3575/How-Britain-voted-in-2015.aspx

    IMHO it's more that small-l liberalism is now the dominant culture, as small-c conservatism was 60 years ago.

    Attlee's Labour Britain of 1945-50, where misbehaving children were caned, homosexuals and abortionists were imprisoned, murderers were hanged and women generally left the workforce on marriage - but tax rates were very high and a welfare state was created, would seem more like National Socialism today.

    Women have a higher tendency to 'go along to get along'*, so they'll vote more for the party that represents the dominant culture, or 'the winning side' if you wish.

    * see http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Btw, did the Globalist say that China's lack of diversity was responsible for its terrible economic stagnation ;-)

    Of course, the Attlee Government passed the 1948 Commonwealth Immigration Act – *the* single measure which led to Britain’s multiracial society.
    Possibly, the massive third world immigration was never intended, but was the result of sheer plain ignorance and stupidity.
    Incidentally, the SS Empire Windrush docked in Southampton in 1948. Contrary to popular belief the Jamaican immigrants were never ‘invited’ in by the UK government to ‘help rebuild the country after the war’ or to ‘fill a labor shortage’, they purely and simply were chancers and hustlers.
    In fact, the Labour government wished them gone – but couldn’t do anything because of the legislation they had passed.
    Sounds familiar?

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Possibly, the massive third world immigration was never intended, but was the result of sheer plain ignorance and stupidity.
     
    It's the natural consequence of wanting to have one's anti-imperialism and a commonwealth too.
  67. @Kyle McKenna

    What Americans DO NOT GET is that to Chinese (and pretty much everyone outside of white Western countries) race=nation.

    Appointing Gary Locke ambassador to China was a huge mistake. They basically viewed him as a race traitor.
     
    Critically-important material there, which--thanks to our MSM blackout of inconvenient facts--will never be known to Americans.

    We do the same thing with respect to our ambassadors in many other countries. It's just the Ruling Class of the USA preening about our Virtuous Diversity. Not everyone else will see it that way.

    I understand there’s a similar issue when the U.S. sends the descendants of slaves (i.e. African-Americans) as ambassadors to certain African countries. Far from having a special affinity with local elites, they’re regarded with contempt because of their lowly origins.

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  68. @Anonymous
    No one with a brain can doubt that China will be far far richer than, collectively, the EU nations, (if that abomination still exists), will be in the year 2050, both in absolute terms and in terms of per capita income.

    Thomas Piketty said that by mid-century Europe will be 'required' to absorb Africa's surplus population, which, of course, by that time will vastly outnumber the number of ethnic Europeans living. Per capita income is a reasonable correlation of 'absorbtion capacity' of unproductive immigrants. Thus by 2050 China will, in theory, be able to absorb vastly more Africans than Europe.

    I doubt whether Piketty will make his demands to China.

    I’ll doubt it, for two reasons.

    The first is I doubt mass 3rd world immigration to Europe will continue. The political revolt against it has already started.

    The second is it’s not clear that modern, 1st world Chinese civilization (of the sort in Singapore, Taiwan, or Hong Kong) can scale to continental size.

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    • Replies: @neutral
    Even if the 3rd world immigration did suddenly stop (which I see no sign of doing so), the low birth rates of whites, the high miscegenation rates and the high birth rates of non whites means that Western Europe will be non white by 2050. As for Eastern Europe, who knows what they will do, but their embrace of the very anti white NATO, EU and USA means they are also likely to be knocking at a racial deaths door.

    The real question is if China will succumb to the ideology of diversity before Europe completely demolished. As for Japan I am coming across an ever growing list of news stories about how they need to have mass immigration to solve their problems, because they are under the thumb the US I fear that they will succumb.

    , @Anonymous
    No.

    You're wrong.

    For starters, it is certain that many of the big western European nations will turn majority non-white by 2050, *even if* all further immigration was halted tomorrow - something which definitely, absolutely will not happen. By then, of course, the thirdvworlders will be running these nations for their own self interest - which means bringing their own people in.
    In fact, the trend has been despite politicians talking tough, the trend line of third world immigration into Europe has only increased as time has progressed. Witness Merkel. Witness Tony Blair - the British government used to claim that immigration had 'stopped' prior to 1997.
    Look, the EU - a very very big part of the problem - has done absolutely f*ck all in tackling let alone halting that obvious fraudulent African boat immigration to Italy. In fact the EU would prosecute the Italians if they attempted to stop it.

    As long as we have government by Economist magazine this status quo will prevail. There are no signs of the political class ever seeing sense over the Economist magazine lies.

    By contrast, I'm certain that Chinese GDP will continue to double every 10 years or so way into the foreseeable future.
  69. The famous Tiananmen square protest may have actually been triggered by vicious anti-African protests in Nanking, Shanghai and Beijing just before it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_anti-African_protests#Aftermath

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  70. Zhang Yimou’s latest movie, The Great Wall, is written by Max Brooks, who wrote the screenplay for WWZ apparently.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Wall_(film)

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  71. Sun Yat-Sen picked up a lot of his ideas for China while living in Hawaii. And other places outside of China.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen

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  72. Regarding Tibet and Xinjiang and making the Han the majority, this is not like the American manifest destiny or the German lebensraum, the Chinese have a different approach regarding race and their civilization. Their fear is that the US will use ethnic separist movements to break up the western Chinese lands though. I think in this case their fear is warranted, agencies like the CIA would most certainly use such problems to attack Chinese stability and the Chinese government is acutely aware of this. If Tibet was 90% Tibetan and the US did suddenly decide to ramp up the pressure for independence then things would get bad very fast, if Tibet was say 60% Han, then there will be no hope for some kind of Tibetan Mandela for the US narrative to latch on.

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    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    “I think in this case their fear is warranted, agencies like the CIA would most certainly use such problems to attack Chinese stability and the Chinese government is acutely aware of this.”

    They already have. Have you heard of the Dalai Lama?
  73. @eD
    "It’s pretty much indisputable that women vote more for leftist parties, usually by at least 10%+ relative to men. Check recent election results from any country."

    This is not correct, though around here I've noticed that its common to mangle the definition of "leftist" so that it can mean anything the commentator wants it to mean.

    Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. If I recall correctly the pattern holds in other countries with a socialist party. Its a minor data point, but the Tories have had two female leaders, as opposed to one interim female leader, while they figured out who would be the more permanent leader, for Labour.

    However, the overall pattern is that relative to men, women prefer the party the establishment prefers and which is more likely to maintain the status quo. In the US that happens to be the Democrats. Its traditional to regard the Democrats as "left" and the Republicans as "right", though using old (nineteenth century) political science terminology, if anything it should be the other way around, the Republicans are more likely to propose policy changes, and the Democrats more likely to enact policies, in regards to trade, immigration, and benefiting the financial sector, that increase the power and wealth of the upper classes relative to everyone else.

    Perhaps you could provide illumination on the correct (yours, I suppose) definition of “leftist”. You know how those of us “around here” can be. Thanks

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    • Replies: @Joe Franklin

    Perhaps you could provide illumination on the correct (yours, I suppose) definition of “leftist”. You know how those of us “around here” can be. Thanks

     

    My definition of leftist is people that deliberately ignore and distort the US constitution.

    In particular, leftist piss on parts of the constitution that disallow their schemes, especially the 9th and 10th amendments.

    The supreme law of the land in the US is the US constitution, not the whims of a leftist mob.

    9th amendment says that the people have the power to decide what are civil rights, not the federal government.

    10th amendment says that the state governments have the power to protect civil rights defined by the people, not the federal government.

    Leftist demand that the federal government ignore the constitution and impose fake federal civil rights onto the states and people, civil rights that are designed to benefit leftist.

    Leftist politicians offer fake federal civil rights to buy the votes of fellow leftist.

    In the US, many professional leftist unctuously refer to themselves as diversity, a hysterical and totalitarian victim cult:

    Diversity By Group: African American, Alternate Lifestyle, Asian, Disabled, Hispanic & Latino, Jewish, Native American, Women

    http://www.mindexchange.com/diversity.htm
  74. Chinese history paints the (foreign) Manchus who ran China’s last dynasty, the Qing, as “Sinicised”, yet recent research suggests that they kept their own language and culture, and that Qing China was part of a larger, multi-ethnic empire.

    Recent research done by Harvard which gets all their facts wrong in an effort to deny sovereignty of China over its multiethnic regions. It doesn’t even make sense. The Manchu emperors couldn’t even speak Manchu by 1800. By 1850 practically no one could. All ministers were Chinese-speaking.

    But nothing matters to American scholarship whose only aim is to retcon every single polity in history as a “multi-ethnic multicultural empire”, and so justify Invite the world Invade the world on a global scale. Thankfully the Chinese aren’t buying it.

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  75. @Dave Pinsen
    I'll doubt it, for two reasons.

    The first is I doubt mass 3rd world immigration to Europe will continue. The political revolt against it has already started.

    The second is it's not clear that modern, 1st world Chinese civilization (of the sort in Singapore, Taiwan, or Hong Kong) can scale to continental size.

    Even if the 3rd world immigration did suddenly stop (which I see no sign of doing so), the low birth rates of whites, the high miscegenation rates and the high birth rates of non whites means that Western Europe will be non white by 2050. As for Eastern Europe, who knows what they will do, but their embrace of the very anti white NATO, EU and USA means they are also likely to be knocking at a racial deaths door.

    The real question is if China will succumb to the ideology of diversity before Europe completely demolished. As for Japan I am coming across an ever growing list of news stories about how they need to have mass immigration to solve their problems, because they are under the thumb the US I fear that they will succumb.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    As for Japan I am coming across an ever growing list of news stories about how they need to have mass immigration to solve their problems, because they are under the thumb the US I fear that they will succumb.
     
    The US will certainly do everything in its power to destroy Japan, and they'll try to destroy China. The US will not tolerate the existence of any state foolish enough to think it has the right to decide its own destiny.
  76. Here’s an interesting article from The Economist including facts such as that China has more billionaires than refugees (583). Another highlight:

    Foreigners made up 0.05% of the population in 2010, according to the World Bank, compared with 13% in America.

    In other words, “communist” China is actually more nationalist than the U.S. …and the U.S. is more “communist” than China.

    Remember, it was Marx who said that the “workingman has got no country.” Remember that the next time Obama or Clinton or some other politician tells you that Mexicans and others should be able to cross our border with impunity.

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  77. @Jason Liu
    If you accept the nationalist maxim that there is no state but ethnostate, then xenophobia and homogeneity are equivalent to the concept of nationhood.

    Barring crude personal insults, this definition of nationalism means that in the broader, systemic view, to be anti-racist is to be anti-nation, and therefore anti-civilization.

    The Economist, like most western publications, tries to slip in moral judgment on the grounds that those moral positions are normative:

    The conflation of Han and national identity
     
    Ethnicity and nationality are, and should be, interlinked as often as possible.

    China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes.
     
    Stupid. Diversity is the factor behind ethnic clashes. This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic's.

    Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism...
     
    Hui are more assimilated, not integrated. They are indistinguishable from Han except for their religion. Most Hui today are descended from loyalist Muslims who had a strong sense of nationalism, and helped the government drive rebellious Muslims out of the country into central Asia.

    Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals...
     
    They shouldn't be.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate "Enlightenment" values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

    “Han” is a manufactured ethnicity. Let the Cantonese have their own state (and the Tibetans, Uyghurs, Mongols, Manchus, it goes without saying.) Then we’ll talk.

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  78. @Anon
    Tibetans esp don't believe in it.

    Just ask the Dalai if he feels enriched by Han Chinese diversity.

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.

    Better to maintain borders and do trade with others and exchange ideas.

    Why exchange tons of people?

    We don't need tons of Japanese here to have Japanese TV, we don't need tons of Hindus here to have curry food, we don't need tons of Chinese here to have firecrackers and Chinese tea.

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.

    Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that “opting out”, I suspect.

    Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron.

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    • Replies: @Lurker

    Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese
     
    Isnt that turning out to have been somewhat exaggerated?
    , @Anon
    "Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that “opting out”, I suspect. Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron."

    You know, you goddamn Chinese really make me laugh.

    https://youtu.be/9DZNDEqcSi0?t=46s

    Japanese invasion became brutal because Chinese didn't allow a 'peaceful migration' of Japanese into Manchuria and beyond. 'Xenophobic' Chinese said to 'peacefully migrating' Japanese, "you no come here". You see, if China had not resisted 'peaceful' Japanese settlement and colonization of China, the Rape of Nanking would not have happened.

    Of course, I'm being facetious, you moron. Japanese had no right to move into China, even 'peacefully'. China didn't belong to them. And Chinese had every reason to resist Japanese incursions and eventually opt for war... which is when Japan became esp brutal.

    But it was the same in Tibet. Tibetans initially tolerated Chinese migrations long long ago. But more and more came, and then the Chinese Imperial forces conquered Tibet.
    In the 20th century, Chinese lost direct control over Tibet, and other great powers were looking to gain control over it. But when China became an ally against Japan, the Western powers decided to go along with the notion that Tibet is part of China.

    Tibetans wanted only independence and freedom. Since China was the main threat, they leaned toward other nations. But in the end, Tibet was too isolated and too distant for the great powers to intervene against the Chinese. Besides, Europe had its hands full with other problems at home and in Africa and Middle East to care too much about Tibet.

    And then, the Communists invaded with brutal force in the late 50s and killed 10,000s and destroyed many temples and crushed Tibetan culture.

    Since then, there has been lots of 'peaceful' migrations of Chinese into Tibet, but this has been possible because Chinese military has control over Tibet. Tibetans better not resist this 'peaceful' migration because, if they did, they will be crushed.

    It's like Palestinians had no means to stop the 'peaceful' migration of Zionists into Palestine under British Imperialism. How did that turn out in the end for the Palestinians?
    And today, Israel allows 'peaceful' migrations of Jewish 'settlers' into Jerusalem and West Bank.
    And since globalists have control over EU institutions, they are allowing the 'peaceful' migrations of Africans and Muslims into European homelands.

    So much of what happens 'peacefully' happens with the backing of the threat of Brute Power.

    Listening to Chinese logic makes it clear why so many nations in Asia and around the world don't trust Chinese. Chinese are like snakes. Vile and venomous. Granted, other groups around the world are just as nasty, but Chinese have this middle kingdom arrogance that is sickening to the bone.

  79. @European-American
    You are right to admit your ignorance. China is a world, and most people in the West know so very little about it, we don't even realize how ignorant we are.

    So here's one correction to your guess that the Chinese diaspora is Cantonese: a big part of the sizable Chinese community in France is from Wenzhou. Go find that on the map :-) (it's the southernmost prefecture of Zhejiang, if that's any help). They speak Wenzhounese, "nicknamed the 'Devil's Language' for its complexity and difficulty". Yes, they make Mandarin look easy :-) A Chinese friend from Shenyang and Shanghai seemed to look down on them as yokels when he was in Paris, but I probably missed something.

    Another correction: Hokkien is a big language in some overseas Chinese communities, e.g. Singapore. Those Chinese would originally hail from Fujian, I guess.

    Perhaps saying "most of the Chinese diaspora is Cantonese" is like saying "most of the European diaspora is English"... Not wholly wrong, not far from what many not specially world-wise Asians may think, but a bit of a coarse approximation nonetheless!

    Don't worry about diversity in China. They have plenty of it, you just don't see it!

    Don’t shanghainese look down on people from everywhere else as yokels?

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  80. @Deckin
    It's not true that Han Chinese hold all of the minorities in contempt (open or otherwise). In northeastern China, Jilin Province, Yanbian Prefecture, the population is, in some areas, north of 50% ethnic Korean (though it's declining). There are state universities that teach completely in Korean and they have Korean K-12 schools.

    If anything, in that area, it's the Koreans who look down on the ethnic Chinese. Now that flights are opening up to South Korea, many Koreans go there looking for work or just for shopping. They have brought investment in from South Korea and generally take the view that the Chinese are shiftless and on the stupid side.

    The Chinese don't reciprocate though. They take the Koreans quite seriously and generally try to get on well with them. In my experience, the big three of east Asia, the Chinese, the Japanese and the Koreans have a healthy respect for each other, in all areas. The rest of the continent, not so much. Europeans they hold in fairly high regard across the board, but they reserve their highest admiration for Jews.

    When I lived in Japan, almost thirty years ago, the Japanese regarded both Koreans and Chinese as obvious inferiors. If it hadn’t been for the US and the atomic bomb, both Korea and much of China would still be under Japanese rule today, or so many Japanese liked to believe. Maybe attitudes have had adjust to reality given the dramatic growth in South Korea and the PRC over the last few decades, but I suspect they haven’t really changed that much.

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  81. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Dave Pinsen
    I'll doubt it, for two reasons.

    The first is I doubt mass 3rd world immigration to Europe will continue. The political revolt against it has already started.

    The second is it's not clear that modern, 1st world Chinese civilization (of the sort in Singapore, Taiwan, or Hong Kong) can scale to continental size.

    No.

    You’re wrong.

    For starters, it is certain that many of the big western European nations will turn majority non-white by 2050, *even if* all further immigration was halted tomorrow – something which definitely, absolutely will not happen. By then, of course, the thirdvworlders will be running these nations for their own self interest – which means bringing their own people in.
    In fact, the trend has been despite politicians talking tough, the trend line of third world immigration into Europe has only increased as time has progressed. Witness Merkel. Witness Tony Blair – the British government used to claim that immigration had ‘stopped’ prior to 1997.
    Look, the EU – a very very big part of the problem – has done absolutely f*ck all in tackling let alone halting that obvious fraudulent African boat immigration to Italy. In fact the EU would prosecute the Italians if they attempted to stop it.

    As long as we have government by Economist magazine this status quo will prevail. There are no signs of the political class ever seeing sense over the Economist magazine lies.

    By contrast, I’m certain that Chinese GDP will continue to double every 10 years or so way into the foreseeable future.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Brexit, the failure of the Italian referendum, and the French presidential primaries all are, at least in part, revolts against mass immigration to Europe. Even Merkel is talking about deporting some Muslims now.

    No one has an accurate account of how much bad debt is floating around in China, and Chinese are trying to get money out of the country, with China limiting ATM withdrawals in Macau. The idea that its economy is going to keep doubling for decades without any recessions, depressions, or slower growth is daft.
  82. @melendwyr
    I don't hold to the seemingly common position here that women having the vote is a bad thing. I don't see any evidence at all that women are systematically more foolish with their votes than men; men and women do tend to be foolish in slightly different ways, and so point to the errors the other sex makes which are absurd to them, while overlooking the foolishness they practice and seems 'reasonable' to them.

    Protecting minorities is, quite literally, what American-style representative democracy is intended to do. Granted that's using 'minority' in its technically correct sense, instead of the modern "politically powerful grudge-holder" meaning.

    if civilization is what men do to attract women without being sexy, then giving women the possibility to change this deal might have consequences. It is another question whether these consequences are good or bad.

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  83. Becoming an Immigrant Country: Double Standards, East and West

    http://gssc.uni-koeln.de/node/789

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    • Replies: @Bill B.
    The paper opened with robust and quite interesting comments about non-western hypocrisy etc. but then went all silly:

    Latin America and Africa are much more comfortable with messy diversity, and surveys show that their younger cohorts are quite cosmopolitan (Furia 2005). Much of the world’s demographic and economic growth will be concentrated there in coming decades, and not in the likes of Japan, China, and the Emirates. There is good reason to hope, therefore, that world order can be shaped along lines of openness rather than closure.
     
    The writers key problem is that he cannot envisage a world without a (liberal) umpire keeping a benchmark of acceptable conduct for putative "global citizens". That the world might revert to what it has always been prior to the mid-20th Century.
  84. @Anonymous
    That's why China is the main enemy of the US now, because it doesn't believe in things like diversity. If they were poor and inconsequential, it'd be fine for them to not believe in diversity. But they're getting too rich and powerful now, and that coupled with not believing in diversity is not really tolerable.

    That’s why China is the main enemy of the US now, because it doesn’t believe in things like diversity.

    China is the main enemy of the US now, because it doesn’t believe in things like acknowledging the god-given right of the US to run the world. It’s a challenge to American hegemony.

    American elites don’t care about diversity. Diversity is just a weapon. A weapon to be used against other nations and a weapon to be used against the American people.

    It’s all about power.

    The Chinese are so evil they don’t even believe in American exceptionalism! Clearly they must be destroyed.

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  85. @syonredux
    A nice scene from The Right Stuff

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZinWApMjl8

    1962-1964, the Apogee of America’s civilization, one created exclusively by white Europeans. All the intelligence and aspirations of that civilization concentrated in the living consciousness of one man being projected into deep space in a Faustian quest in search of our ultimate source and destiny. Then come the outsiders, the grifters and parasites drawn by the prospect of looting; conniving to literally Steal the Thunder from the daring, brave white Europeans. Where is Thor when we need him?

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  86. @Anonymous
    Of course, the Attlee Government passed the 1948 Commonwealth Immigration Act - *the* single measure which led to Britain's multiracial society.
    Possibly, the massive third world immigration was never intended, but was the result of sheer plain ignorance and stupidity.
    Incidentally, the SS Empire Windrush docked in Southampton in 1948. Contrary to popular belief the Jamaican immigrants were never 'invited' in by the UK government to 'help rebuild the country after the war' or to 'fill a labor shortage', they purely and simply were chancers and hustlers.
    In fact, the Labour government wished them gone - but couldn't do anything because of the legislation they had passed.
    Sounds familiar?

    Possibly, the massive third world immigration was never intended, but was the result of sheer plain ignorance and stupidity.

    It’s the natural consequence of wanting to have one’s anti-imperialism and a commonwealth too.

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  87. @Jason Liu
    If you accept the nationalist maxim that there is no state but ethnostate, then xenophobia and homogeneity are equivalent to the concept of nationhood.

    Barring crude personal insults, this definition of nationalism means that in the broader, systemic view, to be anti-racist is to be anti-nation, and therefore anti-civilization.

    The Economist, like most western publications, tries to slip in moral judgment on the grounds that those moral positions are normative:

    The conflation of Han and national identity
     
    Ethnicity and nationality are, and should be, interlinked as often as possible.

    China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes.
     
    Stupid. Diversity is the factor behind ethnic clashes. This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic's.

    Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism...
     
    Hui are more assimilated, not integrated. They are indistinguishable from Han except for their religion. Most Hui today are descended from loyalist Muslims who had a strong sense of nationalism, and helped the government drive rebellious Muslims out of the country into central Asia.

    Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals...
     
    They shouldn't be.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate "Enlightenment" values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i’m assuming that you’re a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don’t think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren’t. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i’m willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you’re fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I’m shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn’t hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don’t give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don’t see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you’re a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn’t hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn’t hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn’t hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world.
     
    No, they've already burnt their hand on that stove. Besides, the white man's burden is an example of the pathological altruism they loathe. Colonialism cannot long endure without the spiritual fuel of missionary evangelism. These people are not cut from that cloth.

    You are mistaken.
    , @Jason Liu
    Wow man, thanks for enlightening me. All that time I spent familiarizing myself with "this corner of the internet", I somehow missed the fact that the alt-right is full of angry white nationalists.

    I certainly haven't been told to "go back" hundreds of times already, or been victimized by racists on the streets until you brought up the possibility. How could I have been so blind?

    -----

    Those of us who can make cost-benefit analyses see the world more clearly. The odds of me being deported is slim to none. The odds of whites attempting to colonize more countries is even less. They can't even rid their own countries of diversity. Or convince most other whites to stand up for their own race.

    If they want their own white ethnostate, they will have to do it by seccession. There simply is no historical precedent for removing nearly 100 million people from any land, not even through total war. Even in the unlikely scenario of white secessionism, it would present an opportunity for other forms of nationalism in the New World, including Asian.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    You are quite mistaken. Most white separatists I know simply want to be left alone, a sentiment that I fully understand and can appreciate.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn’t hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you.
     
    Your attempt to attribute to your opponents what you want to do to others is another pathetic example of why Libtards like you excite disgust and contempt. Keep your projections to yourself, along with your Marxist superstitions.
    , @Anonymous
    Having experienced the third world imported into their homelands, alt-righters don't want anything whatever to do with the third world - this means, absolutely, not 'colonizing' it.
    All the alt-right wants is the 'right' to be left alone.
    On the other hand, the third-world just will not, cannot, leave the white world alone.
  88. Talk about propaganda:

    It has a severe shortage of social workers, care staff and nurses, jobs that most Chinese are unwilling to fill.

    In NYC and other cities, recently arrived Chinese immigrants pick through garbage to garner recyclable cans and bottles. BUT we are supposed to believe most Chinese refuse to become nurses and social works, which perfectly respectable jobs in China.

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  89. The characteristic signature of the Chinese secret services their use ONLY of Chinese citizens or those persons ethnically Chinese. They do not trust others.

    “All in the family.”

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  90. @European-American
    A person in China once gave me a pithy description of Emperor Qin, China's first and most important emperor, who united China, burned most books, imposed a single script, and buried scholars alive. This Chinese person smilingly told me, "Emperor Qin was a bit like your Hitler, but 2000 years ago, and if Hitler had won".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Shi_Huang#As_the_Emperor_of_Qin

    I guess the Chinese really only had one Reich. And despite a few bumps along the way, they have long passed the thousand-year mark, twice.

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Third_Reich#Names

    The Chinese ideal of the benevolent dictator. You can wonder if Chin was benevolent but nonetheless without question a “strong” man.

    Big Father knows what is best for Little Child.

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  91. @Mouren
    Laowai or Waiguoren are neutral terms, if a mainland Chinese person wants to curse/ talk bad about foreigners (specifically white people) he uses the term Yangguizi (洋鬼子), which does translate to foreign ghost or foreign devil.
    The equivalent term for black people would be Heiguizi (黑鬼子), black devil or black ghost.

    The word Yankee is often said to have an origin in the corruption of the Chinese word for white faced devil. That is us.

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  92. @syonredux

    Over the past century, China’s founding myth has been a source of strength. But as it looks forwards, China risks being borne back ceaselessly into its own past.

    It’s fascinating how F. Scott Fitzgerald has been retconned into a Diversitarian.

     

    Indeed:

    God damn the continent of Europe. It is of merely antiquarian interest. Rome is only a few years behind Tyre and Babylon. The negroid streak creeps northward to defile the Nordic race. Already the Italians have the souls of blackamoors. Raise the bars of immigration and permit only Scandinavians, Teutons, Anglo-Saxons and Celts to enter. France made me sick. Its silly pose as the thing the world has to save. I think it's a shame that England and America didn't let Germany conquer Europe. It's the only thing that would have saved the fleet of tottering old wrecks. (Letters 326)
     

    “Over the past century, China’s founding myth has been a source of strength. But as it looks forwards, China risks being borne back ceaselessly into its own past…”
    Among old civilisations with relatively well recorded history, Chinese can communicate with the past most readily. The average Chinese high school gradutaes can read classical text albeitly with some difficulty. The past is always there to remind us. That’s why confucism needn’t be institionised and instead diffused. Sharing common language, history and future destination is the core of Chinese identity, not worshipping the same gods, keeping old costume, diet taboo..

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  93. @Buck Turgidson
    Perhaps you could provide illumination on the correct (yours, I suppose) definition of "leftist". You know how those of us "around here" can be. Thanks

    Perhaps you could provide illumination on the correct (yours, I suppose) definition of “leftist”. You know how those of us “around here” can be. Thanks

    My definition of leftist is people that deliberately ignore and distort the US constitution.

    In particular, leftist piss on parts of the constitution that disallow their schemes, especially the 9th and 10th amendments.

    The supreme law of the land in the US is the US constitution, not the whims of a leftist mob.

    9th amendment says that the people have the power to decide what are civil rights, not the federal government.

    10th amendment says that the state governments have the power to protect civil rights defined by the people, not the federal government.

    Leftist demand that the federal government ignore the constitution and impose fake federal civil rights onto the states and people, civil rights that are designed to benefit leftist.

    Leftist politicians offer fake federal civil rights to buy the votes of fellow leftist.

    In the US, many professional leftist unctuously refer to themselves as diversity, a hysterical and totalitarian victim cult:

    Diversity By Group: African American, Alternate Lifestyle, Asian, Disabled, Hispanic & Latino, Jewish, Native American, Women

    http://www.mindexchange.com/diversity.htm

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  94. @European-American
    A person in China once gave me a pithy description of Emperor Qin, China's first and most important emperor, who united China, burned most books, imposed a single script, and buried scholars alive. This Chinese person smilingly told me, "Emperor Qin was a bit like your Hitler, but 2000 years ago, and if Hitler had won".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_Shi_Huang#As_the_Emperor_of_Qin

    I guess the Chinese really only had one Reich. And despite a few bumps along the way, they have long passed the thousand-year mark, twice.

    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Third_Reich#Names

    So, will China be good for the Jews?

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  95. @Jason Liu
    If you accept the nationalist maxim that there is no state but ethnostate, then xenophobia and homogeneity are equivalent to the concept of nationhood.

    Barring crude personal insults, this definition of nationalism means that in the broader, systemic view, to be anti-racist is to be anti-nation, and therefore anti-civilization.

    The Economist, like most western publications, tries to slip in moral judgment on the grounds that those moral positions are normative:

    The conflation of Han and national identity
     
    Ethnicity and nationality are, and should be, interlinked as often as possible.

    China risks turning cultural insensitivity into ethnic clashes.
     
    Stupid. Diversity is the factor behind ethnic clashes. This happens in western China because the minorities exist/are not sufficiently assimilated. The minority should be blamed first before the majority, because their existence within an ethnostate is not as morally valid as the core demographic's.

    Hui Muslims have long been the successful face of Chinese multiculturalism...
     
    Hui are more assimilated, not integrated. They are indistinguishable from Han except for their religion. Most Hui today are descended from loyalist Muslims who had a strong sense of nationalism, and helped the government drive rebellious Muslims out of the country into central Asia.

    Although many of China’s citizens are not treated as equals...
     
    They shouldn't be.

    Until the west undergoes some kind of moral reformation, and begins to seriously interrogate "Enlightenment" values, it will continue to put out absurd articles like this.

    Just admit it: you want to genocide all non-Han ethnic groups.

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  96. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Jason Liu
    That has nothing to do with what I said. Did you just want to engage in ethnic shitflinging?

    Nationalism is a human virtue, not limited to China or any other country. Even if your assessment of China is correct -- which, given its ethnic homogeneity and social hierarchy, says otherwise -- it is not a free-pass for western values to go uncriticized. The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.

    The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.

    One shouldn’t take the word of a Chinese nationalist seriously on this topic. He’d suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov’t.

    Liu, why not move to China itself? It’s clear you don’t understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West. Don’t confuse Jewish influence of the last 60 years with the Enlightenment.

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    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    He’d suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov’t.

    Different ethnicities can thrive under different social and political economies, the end result of very different though equally complex historical trajectories.

    No one, however, can thrive long term under the current American social and political economy. I think Liu is right to suggest that we learn to separate the baby from the bathwater if we have any interest in salvaging our secular republic.

    That said, contra Liu, I don't think it's possible to construct an American nationalism on purely ethnic grounds. That ship sailed the minute those morons in the South decided they were too lazy to pick their own cotton. Unless demographic trends change, America will soon be 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 20% Asian, and 10% black. If Americans were smart like the Chinese, they never would have let this happen. However, it's happened, the genie isn't going back in the bottle, so we have a difficult question to answer: what can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?

    My answer is: probably nothing. Which is why I'm having my kid learn Mandarin and praying he marries a Han girl, so that maybe my grandkids can marry Hans and then my great-grandkids can repatriate themselves back to China.
    , @dfordoom

    It’s clear you don’t understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West.
     
    I think Jason Liu is right. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end for western civilisation. The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered. It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems. The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.
  97. @Anonymous Nephew
    "Its pretty well documented that in UK elections the Conservatives fairly consistently get a higher percentage of the female vote than the male vote, and vice versa for Labour. "

    Not any more. This certainly used to be the case 60 years ago. At the last election the Labour vote was (small) majority female and the Tory and UKIP votes were (small, though UKIP gap was larger) majority male.

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3575/How-Britain-voted-in-2015.aspx

    IMHO it's more that small-l liberalism is now the dominant culture, as small-c conservatism was 60 years ago.

    Attlee's Labour Britain of 1945-50, where misbehaving children were caned, homosexuals and abortionists were imprisoned, murderers were hanged and women generally left the workforce on marriage - but tax rates were very high and a welfare state was created, would seem more like National Socialism today.

    Women have a higher tendency to 'go along to get along'*, so they'll vote more for the party that represents the dominant culture, or 'the winning side' if you wish.

    * see http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    Btw, did the Globalist say that China's lack of diversity was responsible for its terrible economic stagnation ;-)

    Attlee’s Labour Britain of 1945-50, where misbehaving children were caned, homosexuals and abortionists were imprisoned, murderers were hanged and women generally left the workforce on marriage – but tax rates were very high and a welfare state was created, would seem more like National Socialism today.

    Arguably, in s0me ways Attlee’s Labour government was more socialist than National Socialism. They nationalized just about every major industry in the UK — coal, steel, rail, auto, communications, etc. I’m not aware of any other Western nation where the government nationalized more of the private sector. If the UK had been a Third World country, the U.S. would have invaded it or overthrown its government during the Cold War for nationalizing that many industries.

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  98. @Anon

    The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.
     
    One shouldn't take the word of a Chinese nationalist seriously on this topic. He'd suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov't.

    Liu, why not move to China itself? It's clear you don't understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West. Don't confuse Jewish influence of the last 60 years with the Enlightenment.

    He’d suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov’t.

    Different ethnicities can thrive under different social and political economies, the end result of very different though equally complex historical trajectories.

    No one, however, can thrive long term under the current American social and political economy. I think Liu is right to suggest that we learn to separate the baby from the bathwater if we have any interest in salvaging our secular republic.

    That said, contra Liu, I don’t think it’s possible to construct an American nationalism on purely ethnic grounds. That ship sailed the minute those morons in the South decided they were too lazy to pick their own cotton. Unless demographic trends change, America will soon be 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 20% Asian, and 10% black. If Americans were smart like the Chinese, they never would have let this happen. However, it’s happened, the genie isn’t going back in the bottle, so we have a difficult question to answer: what can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?

    My answer is: probably nothing. Which is why I’m having my kid learn Mandarin and praying he marries a Han girl, so that maybe my grandkids can marry Hans and then my great-grandkids can repatriate themselves back to China.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    What can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?
     
    There have been moderately successful multi-ethnic empires, like the Habsburg Empire. Loyalty to the Crown did work reasonably well. I think you have to accept that if the US has a future it will have to be on that sort of model. Obviously democracy is out of the question - democracy can only work in a mono-ethnic mono-cultural state.

    If the Founding Fathers had known that the US would end up as a multi-ethnic state they might have been sensible enough to choose monarchy rather than a republic as the system of government.
    , @Truth

    Unless demographic trends change, America will soon be 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 20% Asian, and 10% black. If Americans were smart like the Chinese, they never would have let this happen. However, it’s happened, the genie isn’t going back in the bottle, so we have a difficult question to answer: what can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?
     
    One thing can; the millions of Chinese people who would give their eye teeth to leave Han Valhalla and move to L.A.
  99. @Dave Pinsen

    In an exhibition of “Xinjiang’s nationalities” in a museum in Urumqi, the provincial capital, the only person in modern clothes is Han; signs note that Chinese Uzbeks “have a special liking for all kinds of little caps”
     
    America delegated its MLK statue to a Chinese; imagine if we delegated the African American history museum to them too.

    LOL!

    Wouldn’t it be funny if some city actually did it? Funny and instructive about China and, to some extent, Asia in general.

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  100. @Stan
    Have you considered the subject of "Women's suffrage and the growth of the welfare state?'"

    Or “women’s suffrage and Prohibition”. Oh, I know, I know.

    As I said before, men notice characteristically female foolishness, but disregard characteristically male foolishness. It’s ‘normal’, and unremarkable.

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    • Replies: @Antonymous

    As I said before, men notice characteristically female foolishness, but disregard characteristically male foolishness.
     
    Right, female histrionics gets the attention while male anger -- also an IQ-damping emotion -- is accepted. A study from the 80's noted that anger depressed the intellect some 30 IQ points. Don't debate while angry, kids.
  101. @shhs
    Gore would not have got into Iraq, or would be content at lobbing a few cruise missiles and air strikes like desert fox, is that a bad thing? And no bush tax cuts or bush deficits.

    I agree.

    And Gore, as a practical Southern gentleman, wouldn’t have gotten the black folks riled up like Obama did.

    He probably would have been a pretty good President. A little on the dorky side; but so what.

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    • Replies: @Difference maker
    Gore was really dorky. I was appalled at his public address before the 2000 election. I'll bet it cost him the election
  102. Mr. Sailer discussed Qin Shi Huang-di, but didn’t mention perhaps the most important aspect of his rule: his banning of all schools of philosophy other than Legalism and the attempted destruction of every copy of proscribed works.

    Wikipedia briefly describes Legalism as a system “that required the people to follow the laws or be punished accordingly”, but that’s absurd. It would be more accurate to say that Legalism dictates that a system of laws be made such that any given person is always in violation of at least one law, and the leader causes violations to be put under scrutiny at his pleasure. So everyone is always guilty, and in constant peril, but the laws are enforced at a leader’s whim. It’s basically the system 1984 operates under.

    We don’t truly know what was lost in Chinese thought. We know only what managed to survive being hidden.

    China never really recovered from the reign of the “Mountain Spirit King”. That was merely the beginning of its very long decline.

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    • Replies: @Difference maker
    Indeed, the Communists describe Confucianism as having a glaring flaw; that there was no place for even the concept of a meeting of peers or equals

    The Tang dynasty, which is justifiably be called the last golden age, had a noticeably different culture than that of recent eras. * Having emerged out of centuries of competing states and barbarian invasions, statesmen were conscious that the threads of cultural transmission had been broken. Surviving works could not be verified, and they were skeptical about ever being able to ascertain the thoughts of the ancestors

    Reading between the lines this means of course that there was and had been freedom for innovation and pragmatism.

    The Tang dynasty was also the dynasty to implement the imperial examination system in a big way, ** a grand accomplishment.. which i think led to a lot of evils of later days. Just think - a time before the Chinese ever had long experience with an examination system! Of course they were different.

    It is no coincidence that the Chinese never had the same vitality again

    * A martial and extraverted era

    ** This maintained even when the nation became a collection of armed camps in the waning days of the dynasty. Early examinations also had non literary components such as mathematics - another sharp break from later eras
  103. @melendwyr
    I will admit to being concerned when people offer Israel, or China, as examples of how our society should be run. I'm in favor of increasing ethnic solidarity, but not to those degrees and not in those manners.

    It’s more a matter of China staying Chinese while we dissolve ourselves.

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  104. @Numinous

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.
     
    Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that "opting out", I suspect.

    Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron.

    Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese

    Isnt that turning out to have been somewhat exaggerated?

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  105. @Stan
    Have you considered the subject of "Women's suffrage and the growth of the welfare state?'"

    Women voted more Republican than men until the 1970s.

    In the UK, suffragists warned parliamentarian allies never to allow women to vote on the issue, as suffrage would get creamed worse than had only men voted. They studied the results in Western states.

    Women fear change more than men do. Which is why so many voted More of the Same this year.

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  106. @sb
    Wouldn't that be the Queen of Canada appearing on Canadian money ?

    Wouldn’t that be the Queen of Canada appearing on Canadian money ?

    One side.Viola Desmond goes on the other.

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  107. @Whiskey
    Women voted for Obama, in droves, and married respectable White women in the NYT wrote of their sexual fantasies about Obama. Women decisively voted for the Left candidate over the Freedom Party dude in Austria, effectively voting to turn over the nation to Muslim invaders. Women enthusiastically supported the Merkel Youth invasion, and still do; the people angry about it are MEN.

    Trump took White women by 53%, but that is more a feature of depressed turnout for the Dowager Empress among educated White professional women who despise Trump, and increased White working class women voting their pocketbook and not social status mongering.

    At one point during polling, Trump had a twenty point deficit among educated White women, a demo that (President) Romney took by 15 points. Trump made the smart call, betting increased turnout among White male voters would beat a lack-luster Hillary who was a turn-off in every respect though with far better and more experienced voter turnout people; to Trump's largely social media campaign. But Trump was and is extraordinary, a media force and so sui generis.

    Between say, charisma challenged Kris Kobach or Jeff Sessions, and say Nancy Pelosi, you'd be seeing President Pelosi. Because women vote hard left consistently and certainly in the US.

    This is a function of singleton or duration of marriage; a woman married for ten years or less will view her husband as far more disposable (a long term lease, basically) than one married for twenty years. Even among singles, White men vote conservative far more than women. White women are after all part of the Diversity coalition; allied against White men in the desire for spoils with Blacks, gays, Muslims, etc.

    Because women vote hard left consistently

    Women vote for the party that has the moral high ground. Until a few decades ago conservative parties occupied the moral high ground. Now it’s the globalists/SJWs who hold that position.

    The problem is that social conservatism and opposition to immigration sounds mean and nasty. A way has to be found to make the social conservative and anti-immigration positions seem warm and cuddly and virtuous and unselfish.

    There’s another reason women don’t support so-called conservative parties like the Republicans. They believe those parties stand for greed, callousness and the destruction of the welfare state. And they’re right.

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    • Replies: @Antonymous

    A way has to be found to make the social conservative and anti-immigration positions seem warm and cuddly and virtuous and unselfish.
     
    I like to point out that social programs are a zero-sum game. The left picks winners in their utopian preening -- we are so rich, we can host the world -- and conveniently forgets the losers. Or even blames them if they're rural and white. The recent heroin crisis, for example, is a direct result of cheap, Mexican-imported drugs and cartels that intentionally target white youth.

    See also joblessness, stagnant wages, outrageous emergency bills, poor school outcomes -- all related on some level to the porous border. I'd include increased crime as well, but FBI reporting obfuscates the white/hispanic distinction in criminals, while separating the groups for victims.
    , @Opinionator
    Women vote for the party that has the moral high ground.

    What difference is there between that claim and these:

    Women vote for the party that is the dominant societal power.

    Women vote for the party that holds the Megaphone.
  108. @neutral
    Even if the 3rd world immigration did suddenly stop (which I see no sign of doing so), the low birth rates of whites, the high miscegenation rates and the high birth rates of non whites means that Western Europe will be non white by 2050. As for Eastern Europe, who knows what they will do, but their embrace of the very anti white NATO, EU and USA means they are also likely to be knocking at a racial deaths door.

    The real question is if China will succumb to the ideology of diversity before Europe completely demolished. As for Japan I am coming across an ever growing list of news stories about how they need to have mass immigration to solve their problems, because they are under the thumb the US I fear that they will succumb.

    As for Japan I am coming across an ever growing list of news stories about how they need to have mass immigration to solve their problems, because they are under the thumb the US I fear that they will succumb.

    The US will certainly do everything in its power to destroy Japan, and they’ll try to destroy China. The US will not tolerate the existence of any state foolish enough to think it has the right to decide its own destiny.

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  109. @neutral
    Regarding Tibet and Xinjiang and making the Han the majority, this is not like the American manifest destiny or the German lebensraum, the Chinese have a different approach regarding race and their civilization. Their fear is that the US will use ethnic separist movements to break up the western Chinese lands though. I think in this case their fear is warranted, agencies like the CIA would most certainly use such problems to attack Chinese stability and the Chinese government is acutely aware of this. If Tibet was 90% Tibetan and the US did suddenly decide to ramp up the pressure for independence then things would get bad very fast, if Tibet was say 60% Han, then there will be no hope for some kind of Tibetan Mandela for the US narrative to latch on.

    “I think in this case their fear is warranted, agencies like the CIA would most certainly use such problems to attack Chinese stability and the Chinese government is acutely aware of this.”

    They already have. Have you heard of the Dalai Lama?

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  110. @Stan
    Have you considered the subject of "Women's suffrage and the growth of the welfare state?'"

    A far better correlation could be made for socialist/deconstructionist politics and growth of the welfare state — or growth of non-western immigration, non-white preferences, and identity politics itself. Who promoted such policies?

    Women voted conservatively for the first 60 years of the franchise. Feminism and identity politics have used women (and minorities) against the mainstream, a useful-idiot wedge. If white men had been feted, as indeed they’ve been for neo-con wars, I imagine men too would be a malleable voting block.

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  111. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Numinous

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.
     
    Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that "opting out", I suspect.

    Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron.

    “Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that “opting out”, I suspect. Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron.”

    You know, you goddamn Chinese really make me laugh.

    Japanese invasion became brutal because Chinese didn’t allow a ‘peaceful migration’ of Japanese into Manchuria and beyond. ‘Xenophobic’ Chinese said to ‘peacefully migrating’ Japanese, “you no come here”. You see, if China had not resisted ‘peaceful’ Japanese settlement and colonization of China, the Rape of Nanking would not have happened.

    Of course, I’m being facetious, you moron. Japanese had no right to move into China, even ‘peacefully’. China didn’t belong to them. And Chinese had every reason to resist Japanese incursions and eventually opt for war… which is when Japan became esp brutal.

    But it was the same in Tibet. Tibetans initially tolerated Chinese migrations long long ago. But more and more came, and then the Chinese Imperial forces conquered Tibet.
    In the 20th century, Chinese lost direct control over Tibet, and other great powers were looking to gain control over it. But when China became an ally against Japan, the Western powers decided to go along with the notion that Tibet is part of China.

    Tibetans wanted only independence and freedom. Since China was the main threat, they leaned toward other nations. But in the end, Tibet was too isolated and too distant for the great powers to intervene against the Chinese. Besides, Europe had its hands full with other problems at home and in Africa and Middle East to care too much about Tibet.

    And then, the Communists invaded with brutal force in the late 50s and killed 10,000s and destroyed many temples and crushed Tibetan culture.

    Since then, there has been lots of ‘peaceful’ migrations of Chinese into Tibet, but this has been possible because Chinese military has control over Tibet. Tibetans better not resist this ‘peaceful’ migration because, if they did, they will be crushed.

    It’s like Palestinians had no means to stop the ‘peaceful’ migration of Zionists into Palestine under British Imperialism. How did that turn out in the end for the Palestinians?
    And today, Israel allows ‘peaceful’ migrations of Jewish ‘settlers’ into Jerusalem and West Bank.
    And since globalists have control over EU institutions, they are allowing the ‘peaceful’ migrations of Africans and Muslims into European homelands.

    So much of what happens ‘peacefully’ happens with the backing of the threat of Brute Power.

    Listening to Chinese logic makes it clear why so many nations in Asia and around the world don’t trust Chinese. Chinese are like snakes. Vile and venomous. Granted, other groups around the world are just as nasty, but Chinese have this middle kingdom arrogance that is sickening to the bone.

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    • Replies: @Numinous
    I am not Chinese. And I agree with you about Tibet and Tibetans, but it just proves my point rather than yours. There is a fundamental difference between foreigners coming into your country in tanks and fighter planes, and foreigners lining up at their closest US consulate seeking visas. If you don't get that distinction, I'll repeat my earlier assertion that you are a moron.
  112. @Anon

    The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.
     
    One shouldn't take the word of a Chinese nationalist seriously on this topic. He'd suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov't.

    Liu, why not move to China itself? It's clear you don't understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West. Don't confuse Jewish influence of the last 60 years with the Enlightenment.

    It’s clear you don’t understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West.

    I think Jason Liu is right. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end for western civilisation. The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered. It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems. The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered.
     
    Only a few bemoan Teddy Roosevelt's trust busting and regulation of labor and food safety.

    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You've read too much Moldbug, dude.

    The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.
     
    Correction: Marxism and its "ends justify the means" approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures -- including fascism, which was simply a response to Bolshevist insurrections in Germany, Italy, and Spain.
    , @Desiderius

    I think Jason Liu is right. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end for western civilisation.
     
    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10111.html

    It's complicated.

    In retrospect, it (the Enlightenment) does strike one as somewhat autistic/aspergery.
  113. @Hodag
    One thing I have learned about in the last five years is there are Han and some subgroups.

    There largest "tribe" are the Hakka, who fled from the north of China to the south after some disaster in the middle ages. Google Hakka and there will be some explanation.

    Anyway, a lot of the Han diaspora are Hakka. Hakka did not bind feet. Plus there is another Cantonese non Hakka diaspora. I think Hong Kong politics is riven on this ethnic? line most of the time.

    I also think much of the Chinese diaspora is the Cantonese speaking trading caste.

    But I welcome correction since finding out about this stuff as a white devil is hard.

    IIRC, the Hakka were in a state of general antagonism and feuding with the Punti, a S. Chinese group in the mid-19th C. The rivalry played a big part in starting the T’ai Ping Rebellion. The T’ai Pings were a religious group founded by Hong Hsiu-ch’uan, a Hakka from S. China. He was an educated type, destined for a civil service career, and a convert to Christianity. He failed his exams and got very sick. When he recovered he announced he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ come to give them Chinese some gospel preaching.

    Long story short, the authorities cracked down on the T’ai Pings, the T’ai Pings fight back, all hell breaks loose. A few million casualties later peace is restored because everybody’s dead. Somewhere along the line the Hakkas and the Puntis have it out.

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  114. @melendwyr
    Or "women's suffrage and Prohibition". Oh, I know, I know.

    As I said before, men notice characteristically female foolishness, but disregard characteristically male foolishness. It's 'normal', and unremarkable.

    As I said before, men notice characteristically female foolishness, but disregard characteristically male foolishness.

    Right, female histrionics gets the attention while male anger — also an IQ-damping emotion — is accepted. A study from the 80′s noted that anger depressed the intellect some 30 IQ points. Don’t debate while angry, kids.

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  115. @Anonymous
    No.

    You're wrong.

    For starters, it is certain that many of the big western European nations will turn majority non-white by 2050, *even if* all further immigration was halted tomorrow - something which definitely, absolutely will not happen. By then, of course, the thirdvworlders will be running these nations for their own self interest - which means bringing their own people in.
    In fact, the trend has been despite politicians talking tough, the trend line of third world immigration into Europe has only increased as time has progressed. Witness Merkel. Witness Tony Blair - the British government used to claim that immigration had 'stopped' prior to 1997.
    Look, the EU - a very very big part of the problem - has done absolutely f*ck all in tackling let alone halting that obvious fraudulent African boat immigration to Italy. In fact the EU would prosecute the Italians if they attempted to stop it.

    As long as we have government by Economist magazine this status quo will prevail. There are no signs of the political class ever seeing sense over the Economist magazine lies.

    By contrast, I'm certain that Chinese GDP will continue to double every 10 years or so way into the foreseeable future.

    Brexit, the failure of the Italian referendum, and the French presidential primaries all are, at least in part, revolts against mass immigration to Europe. Even Merkel is talking about deporting some Muslims now.

    No one has an accurate account of how much bad debt is floating around in China, and Chinese are trying to get money out of the country, with China limiting ATM withdrawals in Macau. The idea that its economy is going to keep doubling for decades without any recessions, depressions, or slower growth is daft.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Look.

    It's China that's bankrolling the USA, not the USA bankrolling China.
    In the final analysis, all that matters is who has got all the gold - that is trade surplus - despite all the shit the modern breed of economist con themselves and the gullible with.

    And as for Europe, if it had a hope in Hell of controlling third world immigration, then it would have done something about that egregious, obvious, massive ongoing criminal fraud of asylum-faking invasion now, at this very moment, taking place as a global sick joke.

    Instead, it gives the criminal invaders a taxi-service to Italy, and a warm place in which to shit.
  116. @Seth Largo
    He’d suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov’t.

    Different ethnicities can thrive under different social and political economies, the end result of very different though equally complex historical trajectories.

    No one, however, can thrive long term under the current American social and political economy. I think Liu is right to suggest that we learn to separate the baby from the bathwater if we have any interest in salvaging our secular republic.

    That said, contra Liu, I don't think it's possible to construct an American nationalism on purely ethnic grounds. That ship sailed the minute those morons in the South decided they were too lazy to pick their own cotton. Unless demographic trends change, America will soon be 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 20% Asian, and 10% black. If Americans were smart like the Chinese, they never would have let this happen. However, it's happened, the genie isn't going back in the bottle, so we have a difficult question to answer: what can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?

    My answer is: probably nothing. Which is why I'm having my kid learn Mandarin and praying he marries a Han girl, so that maybe my grandkids can marry Hans and then my great-grandkids can repatriate themselves back to China.

    What can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?

    There have been moderately successful multi-ethnic empires, like the Habsburg Empire. Loyalty to the Crown did work reasonably well. I think you have to accept that if the US has a future it will have to be on that sort of model. Obviously democracy is out of the question – democracy can only work in a mono-ethnic mono-cultural state.

    If the Founding Fathers had known that the US would end up as a multi-ethnic state they might have been sensible enough to choose monarchy rather than a republic as the system of government.

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  117. @Jason Liu
    That has nothing to do with what I said. Did you just want to engage in ethnic shitflinging?

    Nationalism is a human virtue, not limited to China or any other country. Even if your assessment of China is correct -- which, given its ethnic homogeneity and social hierarchy, says otherwise -- it is not a free-pass for western values to go uncriticized. The error of Enlightenment thinking is all of it except the rejection of religious dogma. Time to start recognizing and abolishing.

    Says the Chinese nationalist.

    News flash:

    You don’t belong in the Enlightenment republic my ancestors created.

    But that’s OK, because China is big and atheist and non-Enlightenment…

    …and I’m sure would welcome your magnificent Recognizing And Abolishing skills.

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    • Replies: @Jason Liu
    Very well, I await your task force to deport legal immigrants. There is one, right?

    Because if not, then we immigrants are going to turn this land into something very different than your ancestor's Enlightenment republic.
  118. @Hodag
    One thing I have learned about in the last five years is there are Han and some subgroups.

    There largest "tribe" are the Hakka, who fled from the north of China to the south after some disaster in the middle ages. Google Hakka and there will be some explanation.

    Anyway, a lot of the Han diaspora are Hakka. Hakka did not bind feet. Plus there is another Cantonese non Hakka diaspora. I think Hong Kong politics is riven on this ethnic? line most of the time.

    I also think much of the Chinese diaspora is the Cantonese speaking trading caste.

    But I welcome correction since finding out about this stuff as a white devil is hard.

    “largest “tribe” are the Hakka”

    But the Hakka are themselves Han.

    Sounds like a 1980s hit – Hakka Han. Hakka Han. Hakka Han …

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  119. @dfordoom

    Because women vote hard left consistently
     
    Women vote for the party that has the moral high ground. Until a few decades ago conservative parties occupied the moral high ground. Now it's the globalists/SJWs who hold that position.

    The problem is that social conservatism and opposition to immigration sounds mean and nasty. A way has to be found to make the social conservative and anti-immigration positions seem warm and cuddly and virtuous and unselfish.

    There's another reason women don't support so-called conservative parties like the Republicans. They believe those parties stand for greed, callousness and the destruction of the welfare state. And they're right.

    A way has to be found to make the social conservative and anti-immigration positions seem warm and cuddly and virtuous and unselfish.

    I like to point out that social programs are a zero-sum game. The left picks winners in their utopian preening — we are so rich, we can host the world — and conveniently forgets the losers. Or even blames them if they’re rural and white. The recent heroin crisis, for example, is a direct result of cheap, Mexican-imported drugs and cartels that intentionally target white youth.

    See also joblessness, stagnant wages, outrageous emergency bills, poor school outcomes — all related on some level to the porous border. I’d include increased crime as well, but FBI reporting obfuscates the white/hispanic distinction in criminals, while separating the groups for victims.

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  120. @alt-right liberal white
    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i'm assuming that you're a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don't think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren't. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i'm willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you're fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I'm shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn't hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don't give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don't see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you're a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn't hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn't hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates

    Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn’t hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world.

    No, they’ve already burnt their hand on that stove. Besides, the white man’s burden is an example of the pathological altruism they loathe. Colonialism cannot long endure without the spiritual fuel of missionary evangelism. These people are not cut from that cloth.

    You are mistaken.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    nope. Ive been around this corner of the internet ever since the alt-right took off so I can speak with authority on this topic. From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies. Furthermore, many WN/alt-righters don't care about imperialism in the sense of the white man's burden aka bringing civilization to the downtrodden dark races, rather they are supportive of imperialism in the sense of creating living space for white people and exploiting the resources of the countries that they would hypothetically colonize. All of what I have said is readily apparent to anybody that spends any amount of time browsing the comments sections and forums of the alt-right. Two caveats:

    1.I said that a very large proportion of the alt-right feels this way or is sympathetic to the idea. I am not making the case that the majority feel this way, because truthfully I have not gotten that impression.

    2.As stated in the segment of the comment that you quoted, I was only addressing a certain demographic of the alt-right; namely those people that are as politically militant as Jason Liu. You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people. Because I have seen just the opposite. On the contrary, it is the more genteel portion of the alt-right that generally disavows imperialism.

    You are mistaken.
  121. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @dfordoom

    It’s clear you don’t understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West.
     
    I think Jason Liu is right. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end for western civilisation. The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered. It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems. The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.

    The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered.

    Only a few bemoan Teddy Roosevelt’s trust busting and regulation of labor and food safety.

    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.

    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You’ve read too much Moldbug, dude.

    The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.

    Correction: Marxism and its “ends justify the means” approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures — including fascism, which was simply a response to Bolshevist insurrections in Germany, Italy, and Spain.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Correction: Marxism and its “ends justify the means” approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures
     
    "Ends justifies the means" doesn't need Marxism, it's the default setting for the human species. That's why the Word had to become flesh, to hack the software of humanity as it were. In bringing down Christendom, the Enlightenment merely cleared the field for a re-emergence of that base brutality.

    If it hadn't been Marxism, there would be some other excuse.
    , @alt-right liberal white


    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You’ve read too much Moldbug, dude.
     
    the irony about @jason liu is that he presumably believes in HBD, yet he seems to forget that different races have different affinities for different political systems. So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities while at the same time saying that instead we should adopt political ideologies that typically appeal more to the unique racial sensibilities of asians. Jason Liu is clueless and in my opinion doth protest too much
    , @dfordoom

    Correction: Marxism and its “ends justify the means” approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures
     
    Marxism was a direct result of the Enlightenment.

    The French Revolution was the first attempt to construct utopia. It was the first time the utopians discovered that utopia could only be built on a mountain of corpses. It didn't discourage them at all.

    Marxism was just another variant on Enlightenment thinking.
  122. @Not Raul
    I agree.

    And Gore, as a practical Southern gentleman, wouldn't have gotten the black folks riled up like Obama did.

    He probably would have been a pretty good President. A little on the dorky side; but so what.

    Gore was really dorky. I was appalled at his public address before the 2000 election. I’ll bet it cost him the election

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  123. @alt-right liberal white
    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i'm assuming that you're a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don't think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren't. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i'm willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you're fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I'm shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn't hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don't give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don't see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you're a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn't hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn't hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates

    Wow man, thanks for enlightening me. All that time I spent familiarizing myself with “this corner of the internet”, I somehow missed the fact that the alt-right is full of angry white nationalists.

    I certainly haven’t been told to “go back” hundreds of times already, or been victimized by racists on the streets until you brought up the possibility. How could I have been so blind?

    —–

    Those of us who can make cost-benefit analyses see the world more clearly. The odds of me being deported is slim to none. The odds of whites attempting to colonize more countries is even less. They can’t even rid their own countries of diversity. Or convince most other whites to stand up for their own race.

    If they want their own white ethnostate, they will have to do it by seccession. There simply is no historical precedent for removing nearly 100 million people from any land, not even through total war. Even in the unlikely scenario of white secessionism, it would present an opportunity for other forms of nationalism in the New World, including Asian.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    I find your sad attempt at backpedaling pretty humorous. Honestly I cringe every time I read one of your comments. Its pretty much the same old thing:

    "white people are stupid for embracing diversity"

    "you guys are doing it wrong!!!!"

    "Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all!!!!"

    As another commenter so aptly put it, you've spent too much time reading moldbug. In fact, I was wrong about you being politically extremist or militant, on the contrary your problem is that you are a one trick pony and your politics lack any nuance at all. I guess it would be more accurate to call you politically autistic, because this is the impression I get whenever I read one of your puerile, sophomoric screeds. I get it already, you want minorities to be treated like crap just because they are minorities and you believe that we should do away with any pretense of political equality for minorities. While there is some merit to your general ideas, you take them to an autistic and unpalatable extreme.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

    No. You're wrong about this. First of all, since you only perceive things one-dimensionally you completely overlook the fact that the asian race has a different psychological profile compared to the white race. As a result, western liberal democratic beliefs will have a different impact on asian populations than they will on white populations. Given my own personal knowledge of asia and my experiences with asian people, they generally tend towards pragmatism and eschew lofty, abstract political notions. Thus, I can't see asians becoming virulently SJW in the same way that whites are, I mean yeah there might be some outliers here and there, but on the whole most asians will be indifferent to the numerous kinds of pathologies that accompany western liberal democratic beliefs. That's why IMO you're getting worked up over nothing. Western liberal democratic beliefs will only stick around in asia in proportion to their actual utility within east asian societies. For useless or even detrimental western liberal democratic beliefs, they will have a very short lifespan in east asia and be soundly rejected since there is not a wide enough receptivity from the population to maintain and repropagate these kinds of ideas.
  124. @Olorin
    Says the Chinese nationalist.

    News flash:

    You don't belong in the Enlightenment republic my ancestors created.

    But that's OK, because China is big and atheist and non-Enlightenment...

    ...and I'm sure would welcome your magnificent Recognizing And Abolishing skills.

    Very well, I await your task force to deport legal immigrants. There is one, right?

    Because if not, then we immigrants are going to turn this land into something very different than your ancestor’s Enlightenment republic.

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    No, you'll just lose interest and go innovation-parasitize some other people's creations.

    Innovators innovate.

    Not everyone is hardwired to innovate.

    Though you won't be alone in overweening pride in racial parasitism.

    Speaking of, I often read in Chinese media that China's very welcoming of Jews these days.

    I'm going long on popcorn.

  125. @Jason Liu
    There can never be true nationalism under liberal democracy. A democratic society exists in a constant state of decline into degeneracy, even during "good times".

    Granted, all states decline over time. But the nature of democracy means that entropy is built into the system, because it gives undue political clout to women and social minorities by design.

    Jason, ever considered joining Quora, it needs a diversity of opinions.

    Rest of you are invited, rather than lurking here.

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  126. @melendwyr
    Mr. Sailer discussed Qin Shi Huang-di, but didn't mention perhaps the most important aspect of his rule: his banning of all schools of philosophy other than Legalism and the attempted destruction of every copy of proscribed works.

    Wikipedia briefly describes Legalism as a system "that required the people to follow the laws or be punished accordingly", but that's absurd. It would be more accurate to say that Legalism dictates that a system of laws be made such that any given person is always in violation of at least one law, and the leader causes violations to be put under scrutiny at his pleasure. So everyone is always guilty, and in constant peril, but the laws are enforced at a leader's whim. It's basically the system 1984 operates under.

    We don't truly know what was lost in Chinese thought. We know only what managed to survive being hidden.

    China never really recovered from the reign of the "Mountain Spirit King". That was merely the beginning of its very long decline.

    Indeed, the Communists describe Confucianism as having a glaring flaw; that there was no place for even the concept of a meeting of peers or equals

    The Tang dynasty, which is justifiably be called the last golden age, had a noticeably different culture than that of recent eras. * Having emerged out of centuries of competing states and barbarian invasions, statesmen were conscious that the threads of cultural transmission had been broken. Surviving works could not be verified, and they were skeptical about ever being able to ascertain the thoughts of the ancestors

    Reading between the lines this means of course that there was and had been freedom for innovation and pragmatism.

    The Tang dynasty was also the dynasty to implement the imperial examination system in a big way, ** a grand accomplishment.. which i think led to a lot of evils of later days. Just think – a time before the Chinese ever had long experience with an examination system! Of course they were different.

    It is no coincidence that the Chinese never had the same vitality again

    * A martial and extraverted era

    ** This maintained even when the nation became a collection of armed camps in the waning days of the dynasty. Early examinations also had non literary components such as mathematics – another sharp break from later eras

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  127. I wish the Chinese women would stop stealing the desirable Jewish men. I have no desire for a reciprocal agreement with them, thank you very much.

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    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    I find it telling that Asian women now seem to be the choice for out marrying Jewish men, rather than the usual Shiksas. It's like the Jews have a sense as to which way the winds of power are blowing.
  128. @Anon
    Tibetans esp don't believe in it.

    Just ask the Dalai if he feels enriched by Han Chinese diversity.

    And China opted out of diverse British empire and diverse Japanese co-prosperity sphere in the 30s and 40s.

    Better to maintain borders and do trade with others and exchange ideas.

    Why exchange tons of people?

    We don't need tons of Japanese here to have Japanese TV, we don't need tons of Hindus here to have curry food, we don't need tons of Chinese here to have firecrackers and Chinese tea.

    “Just ask the Dalai if he feels enriched by Han Chinese diversity. ”

    The Dalai Lama is a pretty sickening individual. WikiLeaks has revealed that for years he has been sending orphans under his care to go to war for India against Pakistan. Man of moral authority? Not!

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  129. @alt-right liberal white
    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i'm assuming that you're a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don't think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren't. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i'm willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you're fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I'm shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn't hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don't give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don't see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you're a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn't hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn't hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates

    You are quite mistaken. Most white separatists I know simply want to be left alone, a sentiment that I fully understand and can appreciate.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    You are quite mistaken, for two reasons.

    1.I was predominately referring to a certain highly militant segment of the alt-right not the entire alt-right.

    2.you are naive and take them at face value. Personally I agree with true white separatist ideology and think its basically morally sound. There is no disagreement here. However, a very large proportion of the people espousing white separatist ideology really just use that as a form of PR to ward off accusations of racism or white supremacy. There have been so many times that I have seen commenters in the alt-right loudly proclaim that they just want to be left alone in their white ethnostate, but then on later occasions I would see them make numerous statements either outright supporting or being heavily sympathetic of imperial adventurism. I've seen situations like this frequently enough to realize that the whole thing about WN just wanting to be left alone in their own ethnostate is pretty much bullshit and anybody who takes them for their word is a dunce. The amount of white separatists that TRULY just want to be left alone to their own devices and eschew all kinds of imperialistic tendencies are probably no more than 20-30%.
  130. @dfordoom

    It’s clear you don’t understand the role of Enlightenment thinking in creating the civilized West.
     
    I think Jason Liu is right. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end for western civilisation. The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered. It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems. The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.

    I think Jason Liu is right. The Enlightenment was the beginning of the end for western civilisation.

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10111.html

    It’s complicated.

    In retrospect, it (the Enlightenment) does strike one as somewhat autistic/aspergery.

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  131. @Anon

    The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered.
     
    Only a few bemoan Teddy Roosevelt's trust busting and regulation of labor and food safety.

    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You've read too much Moldbug, dude.

    The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.
     
    Correction: Marxism and its "ends justify the means" approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures -- including fascism, which was simply a response to Bolshevist insurrections in Germany, Italy, and Spain.

    Correction: Marxism and its “ends justify the means” approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures

    “Ends justifies the means” doesn’t need Marxism, it’s the default setting for the human species. That’s why the Word had to become flesh, to hack the software of humanity as it were. In bringing down Christendom, the Enlightenment merely cleared the field for a re-emergence of that base brutality.

    If it hadn’t been Marxism, there would be some other excuse.

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  132. @dfordoom

    Because women vote hard left consistently
     
    Women vote for the party that has the moral high ground. Until a few decades ago conservative parties occupied the moral high ground. Now it's the globalists/SJWs who hold that position.

    The problem is that social conservatism and opposition to immigration sounds mean and nasty. A way has to be found to make the social conservative and anti-immigration positions seem warm and cuddly and virtuous and unselfish.

    There's another reason women don't support so-called conservative parties like the Republicans. They believe those parties stand for greed, callousness and the destruction of the welfare state. And they're right.

    Women vote for the party that has the moral high ground.

    What difference is there between that claim and these:

    Women vote for the party that is the dominant societal power.

    Women vote for the party that holds the Megaphone.

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  133. @O. Zerk
    Becoming an Immigrant Country: Double Standards, East and West

    http://gssc.uni-koeln.de/node/789

    The paper opened with robust and quite interesting comments about non-western hypocrisy etc. but then went all silly:

    Latin America and Africa are much more comfortable with messy diversity, and surveys show that their younger cohorts are quite cosmopolitan (Furia 2005). Much of the world’s demographic and economic growth will be concentrated there in coming decades, and not in the likes of Japan, China, and the Emirates. There is good reason to hope, therefore, that world order can be shaped along lines of openness rather than closure.

    The writers key problem is that he cannot envisage a world without a (liberal) umpire keeping a benchmark of acceptable conduct for putative “global citizens”. That the world might revert to what it has always been prior to the mid-20th Century.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Latin America and Africa are much more comfortable with messy diversity
     
    Are Africans comfortable with diversity? How much diversity is there in Zimbabwe these days? And I seem to remember that diversity had a few minor problems in Rwanda a while back.

    Of course South Africa, the Rainbow Nation, is a shining example of just how comfortable Africans are with diversity. Apart from the small matter of the slow genocide of the whites. And the tribal hatreds.
  134. @Desiderius

    Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn’t hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world.
     
    No, they've already burnt their hand on that stove. Besides, the white man's burden is an example of the pathological altruism they loathe. Colonialism cannot long endure without the spiritual fuel of missionary evangelism. These people are not cut from that cloth.

    You are mistaken.

    nope. Ive been around this corner of the internet ever since the alt-right took off so I can speak with authority on this topic. From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies. Furthermore, many WN/alt-righters don’t care about imperialism in the sense of the white man’s burden aka bringing civilization to the downtrodden dark races, rather they are supportive of imperialism in the sense of creating living space for white people and exploiting the resources of the countries that they would hypothetically colonize. All of what I have said is readily apparent to anybody that spends any amount of time browsing the comments sections and forums of the alt-right. Two caveats:

    1.I said that a very large proportion of the alt-right feels this way or is sympathetic to the idea. I am not making the case that the majority feel this way, because truthfully I have not gotten that impression.

    2.As stated in the segment of the comment that you quoted, I was only addressing a certain demographic of the alt-right; namely those people that are as politically militant as Jason Liu. You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people. Because I have seen just the opposite. On the contrary, it is the more genteel portion of the alt-right that generally disavows imperialism.

    You are mistaken.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies
     
    You betray your liberal background here. Liberals are apt to conflate these two things (as things they define themselves against) but one can easily stand without the other, and does among the alt-right. They have no interest in empire. Indeed they see their role as encouraging the other peoples of the world to do what they seek to do in their own country - secure self-determination and sovereignty for their people.

    Vox Day's 16 points are very specific on this point, for instance. It's why he's translated them into so many languages. If Vox isn't militant enough for you, I don't know what to tell you.

    You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people.
     
    They've seen imperialism almost destroy white people, whether past whites trying to inflict it overseas or today's whites bearing the blunt of the globohomo empire here at home. I not only make the case, but you'd have to be blinded by prog propaganda not to think likewise.

    The sort of people you're worried about will always gravitate to the strong horse, whatever the politics or principles of the movement it embodies. That has nothing to do with alt-right, left, or center.
    , @dfordoom

    From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies.

     

    From what I've seen, the alt-right harbours a disturbing number of morons whose grasp on reality is so tenuous as to be almost non-existent.

    These morons are probably only a small minority of the alt-right but they're very noisy and very childish. They're trying desperately hard to shock Mom and Dad. It's their total detachment from reality that is the problem. They are effectively discrediting any attempt to build a politically viable anti-immigration nationalist movement.

    Of course it's quite possible that many are paid trolls (quite likely paid by people like Soros) or FBI plants. Either way they have set back the anti-immigration nationalist cause, possibly be decades. The alt-right has become political poison.

    Most people who are anti-immigration nationalists have no problem with people of other races, they just believe that multi-culturalism is unworkable and destructive. They believe that everyone, regardless of ethnicity, is better off living in their own culturally homogeneous countries. These voices of reason are being drowned out by the morons.
  135. One notices of course that the Economist and its ilk will not seriously entertain the notion that homogenous societies with tremendous ethnicity solidarity and pride might actually have competitive advantages over multiethnic mishmash nations.

    That countries effectively practising 21st Century mercantilism tightly bound by ethnic networks might cut swaths across lands of autonomous “competitors” of only weak loyalties to anything but financial returns.

    Surely it can be strongly argued that even at the factory floor level it is the cohesion and culture of particularistic and idiosyncratic ethno-nations that are currently carving up the global market?

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  136. @Anon

    The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered.
     
    Only a few bemoan Teddy Roosevelt's trust busting and regulation of labor and food safety.

    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You've read too much Moldbug, dude.

    The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.
     
    Correction: Marxism and its "ends justify the means" approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures -- including fascism, which was simply a response to Bolshevist insurrections in Germany, Italy, and Spain.

    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.

    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You’ve read too much Moldbug, dude.

    the irony about @jason liu is that he presumably believes in HBD, yet he seems to forget that different races have different affinities for different political systems. So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities while at the same time saying that instead we should adopt political ideologies that typically appeal more to the unique racial sensibilities of asians. Jason Liu is clueless and in my opinion doth protest too much

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I agree, and incidentally your moniker could describe me too.
    , @dfordoom

    So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities
     
    Those political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities, like liberal democracy, have led us to disaster. They have created degenerate decadent societies.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    He is simply insisting on the system that he proposes is superior, and providing arguments for such. Liberalism can be a toxic brand since its a popular meme that is at the same time, not based in reality.

    I think you've overcomplicating it. I agree with him in general, and yes, even if it'll cause me to be discriminated against. Its quite understandable when one is a "guest" in a "host" country.
  137. @Hannah Katz
    I wish the Chinese women would stop stealing the desirable Jewish men. I have no desire for a reciprocal agreement with them, thank you very much.

    I find it telling that Asian women now seem to be the choice for out marrying Jewish men, rather than the usual Shiksas. It’s like the Jews have a sense as to which way the winds of power are blowing.

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  138. @Jason Liu
    Wow man, thanks for enlightening me. All that time I spent familiarizing myself with "this corner of the internet", I somehow missed the fact that the alt-right is full of angry white nationalists.

    I certainly haven't been told to "go back" hundreds of times already, or been victimized by racists on the streets until you brought up the possibility. How could I have been so blind?

    -----

    Those of us who can make cost-benefit analyses see the world more clearly. The odds of me being deported is slim to none. The odds of whites attempting to colonize more countries is even less. They can't even rid their own countries of diversity. Or convince most other whites to stand up for their own race.

    If they want their own white ethnostate, they will have to do it by seccession. There simply is no historical precedent for removing nearly 100 million people from any land, not even through total war. Even in the unlikely scenario of white secessionism, it would present an opportunity for other forms of nationalism in the New World, including Asian.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

    I find your sad attempt at backpedaling pretty humorous. Honestly I cringe every time I read one of your comments. Its pretty much the same old thing:

    “white people are stupid for embracing diversity”

    “you guys are doing it wrong!!!!”

    “Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all!!!!”

    As another commenter so aptly put it, you’ve spent too much time reading moldbug. In fact, I was wrong about you being politically extremist or militant, on the contrary your problem is that you are a one trick pony and your politics lack any nuance at all. I guess it would be more accurate to call you politically autistic, because this is the impression I get whenever I read one of your puerile, sophomoric screeds. I get it already, you want minorities to be treated like crap just because they are minorities and you believe that we should do away with any pretense of political equality for minorities. While there is some merit to your general ideas, you take them to an autistic and unpalatable extreme.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

    No. You’re wrong about this. First of all, since you only perceive things one-dimensionally you completely overlook the fact that the asian race has a different psychological profile compared to the white race. As a result, western liberal democratic beliefs will have a different impact on asian populations than they will on white populations. Given my own personal knowledge of asia and my experiences with asian people, they generally tend towards pragmatism and eschew lofty, abstract political notions. Thus, I can’t see asians becoming virulently SJW in the same way that whites are, I mean yeah there might be some outliers here and there, but on the whole most asians will be indifferent to the numerous kinds of pathologies that accompany western liberal democratic beliefs. That’s why IMO you’re getting worked up over nothing. Western liberal democratic beliefs will only stick around in asia in proportion to their actual utility within east asian societies. For useless or even detrimental western liberal democratic beliefs, they will have a very short lifespan in east asia and be soundly rejected since there is not a wide enough receptivity from the population to maintain and repropagate these kinds of ideas.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all
     
    Well, the fact that you perpetrated the greatest of all crimes against humanity might have something to do with this. But as you and yours are impervious to both reason and experience, it is no wonder you still abase yourself before the great god Marx.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Oh, and BTW, I want to keep Jason Liu here, and ship you to North Korea.
    , @Jason Liu
    Now it has become clear that you don't read my comments -- which is fine, but don't pretend you did.

    I am not part of the alt-right. I am one of few people on Unz who doesn't disparage minorities. Read through my history. Unequal treatment does not mean "treated like crap" -- that itself is a western assumption that only egalitarianism is just. White people are in fact, doing it wrong. You seem to agree, so your criticism boils down to saying "You sound too forceful!"

    Quote me the backpedaling part, and I'll explain why you're wrong.

    No, HBD reductionism is what's one dimensional. Biology is not sufficient defense against ideological infection. Asians are not a different species. A partial, even temporary lapse into SJWism is still undesirable. Why not avoid illness altogether?

    You're acting like liberal democracy isn't hegemonic, even though it's being forced on almost every country on the planet. You let me know when the west will respect the political systems founded on the "racial sensibilities of other races", and then we'll talk. Not once have I asked anyone to adopt the Asian system. The west (and every country) has a long history of non-liberal, non-democratic governance to fall back on.

    Like many others here, if you had based your response on my comment and not my last name, you would not have come to such an embarrassing litany of erroneous conclusions.
  139. An interesting read here at Unz.

    I’ve always found it a bit strange that the Chinese are intensely “pro-Han” but Chinese girls *always* want American or European white guys – even the Chinese girls who are permanent residents of the USA or a European country.

    No idea why – maybe I’ll read Heartiste or VoxDay to find out.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    And vice-versa, nationalist white guys like the Chinese girls, to white girls' chagrin, see above comment by Hannah Katz. Steve has written a lot about this. There's a parallel thing going with white girls and black guys. It's some kind of testosterone ladder effect... Losers in a free-for-all: black girls and Asian guys.
  140. @Daniel Chieh
    You are quite mistaken. Most white separatists I know simply want to be left alone, a sentiment that I fully understand and can appreciate.

    You are quite mistaken, for two reasons.

    1.I was predominately referring to a certain highly militant segment of the alt-right not the entire alt-right.

    2.you are naive and take them at face value. Personally I agree with true white separatist ideology and think its basically morally sound. There is no disagreement here. However, a very large proportion of the people espousing white separatist ideology really just use that as a form of PR to ward off accusations of racism or white supremacy. There have been so many times that I have seen commenters in the alt-right loudly proclaim that they just want to be left alone in their white ethnostate, but then on later occasions I would see them make numerous statements either outright supporting or being heavily sympathetic of imperial adventurism. I’ve seen situations like this frequently enough to realize that the whole thing about WN just wanting to be left alone in their own ethnostate is pretty much bullshit and anybody who takes them for their word is a dunce. The amount of white separatists that TRULY just want to be left alone to their own devices and eschew all kinds of imperialistic tendencies are probably no more than 20-30%.

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  141. @alt-right liberal white
    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i'm assuming that you're a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don't think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren't. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i'm willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you're fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I'm shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn't hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don't give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don't see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you're a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn't hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn't hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates

    feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn’t hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you.

    Your attempt to attribute to your opponents what you want to do to others is another pathetic example of why Libtards like you excite disgust and contempt. Keep your projections to yourself, along with your Marxist superstitions.

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  142. @alt-right liberal white
    I find your sad attempt at backpedaling pretty humorous. Honestly I cringe every time I read one of your comments. Its pretty much the same old thing:

    "white people are stupid for embracing diversity"

    "you guys are doing it wrong!!!!"

    "Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all!!!!"

    As another commenter so aptly put it, you've spent too much time reading moldbug. In fact, I was wrong about you being politically extremist or militant, on the contrary your problem is that you are a one trick pony and your politics lack any nuance at all. I guess it would be more accurate to call you politically autistic, because this is the impression I get whenever I read one of your puerile, sophomoric screeds. I get it already, you want minorities to be treated like crap just because they are minorities and you believe that we should do away with any pretense of political equality for minorities. While there is some merit to your general ideas, you take them to an autistic and unpalatable extreme.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

    No. You're wrong about this. First of all, since you only perceive things one-dimensionally you completely overlook the fact that the asian race has a different psychological profile compared to the white race. As a result, western liberal democratic beliefs will have a different impact on asian populations than they will on white populations. Given my own personal knowledge of asia and my experiences with asian people, they generally tend towards pragmatism and eschew lofty, abstract political notions. Thus, I can't see asians becoming virulently SJW in the same way that whites are, I mean yeah there might be some outliers here and there, but on the whole most asians will be indifferent to the numerous kinds of pathologies that accompany western liberal democratic beliefs. That's why IMO you're getting worked up over nothing. Western liberal democratic beliefs will only stick around in asia in proportion to their actual utility within east asian societies. For useless or even detrimental western liberal democratic beliefs, they will have a very short lifespan in east asia and be soundly rejected since there is not a wide enough receptivity from the population to maintain and repropagate these kinds of ideas.

    Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all

    Well, the fact that you perpetrated the greatest of all crimes against humanity might have something to do with this. But as you and yours are impervious to both reason and experience, it is no wonder you still abase yourself before the great god Marx.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    this is cute. You're probably autistic and as a result of that you see everything in black and white. The truth of the matter is, leftism and leftists are not completely evil and leftism in an american context actually has some good points. Personally I believe that environmentalism, and concern for workers rights is a positive thing. As well as (reasonable) attempts to accommodate women and minorities. These things I have mentioned are not necessarily incompatible or mutually exclusive with right wing/alt right views. The fact that you think that one must be 100% right wing or left wing just goes to show how shallow your thinking is.
  143. @alt-right liberal white
    I find your sad attempt at backpedaling pretty humorous. Honestly I cringe every time I read one of your comments. Its pretty much the same old thing:

    "white people are stupid for embracing diversity"

    "you guys are doing it wrong!!!!"

    "Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all!!!!"

    As another commenter so aptly put it, you've spent too much time reading moldbug. In fact, I was wrong about you being politically extremist or militant, on the contrary your problem is that you are a one trick pony and your politics lack any nuance at all. I guess it would be more accurate to call you politically autistic, because this is the impression I get whenever I read one of your puerile, sophomoric screeds. I get it already, you want minorities to be treated like crap just because they are minorities and you believe that we should do away with any pretense of political equality for minorities. While there is some merit to your general ideas, you take them to an autistic and unpalatable extreme.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

    No. You're wrong about this. First of all, since you only perceive things one-dimensionally you completely overlook the fact that the asian race has a different psychological profile compared to the white race. As a result, western liberal democratic beliefs will have a different impact on asian populations than they will on white populations. Given my own personal knowledge of asia and my experiences with asian people, they generally tend towards pragmatism and eschew lofty, abstract political notions. Thus, I can't see asians becoming virulently SJW in the same way that whites are, I mean yeah there might be some outliers here and there, but on the whole most asians will be indifferent to the numerous kinds of pathologies that accompany western liberal democratic beliefs. That's why IMO you're getting worked up over nothing. Western liberal democratic beliefs will only stick around in asia in proportion to their actual utility within east asian societies. For useless or even detrimental western liberal democratic beliefs, they will have a very short lifespan in east asia and be soundly rejected since there is not a wide enough receptivity from the population to maintain and repropagate these kinds of ideas.

    Oh, and BTW, I want to keep Jason Liu here, and ship you to North Korea.

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  144. @alt-right liberal white
    I find your sad attempt at backpedaling pretty humorous. Honestly I cringe every time I read one of your comments. Its pretty much the same old thing:

    "white people are stupid for embracing diversity"

    "you guys are doing it wrong!!!!"

    "Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all!!!!"

    As another commenter so aptly put it, you've spent too much time reading moldbug. In fact, I was wrong about you being politically extremist or militant, on the contrary your problem is that you are a one trick pony and your politics lack any nuance at all. I guess it would be more accurate to call you politically autistic, because this is the impression I get whenever I read one of your puerile, sophomoric screeds. I get it already, you want minorities to be treated like crap just because they are minorities and you believe that we should do away with any pretense of political equality for minorities. While there is some merit to your general ideas, you take them to an autistic and unpalatable extreme.

    Back in the real world, western liberal democratic beliefs have already infected many countries, and is a clear and present danger to Asia, where the vast majority of Asians live. Would it really make sense to shill for a hostile foreign ideology based simply on the interests of a small overseas community? It might, but only if you believe the individual comes first.

    No. You're wrong about this. First of all, since you only perceive things one-dimensionally you completely overlook the fact that the asian race has a different psychological profile compared to the white race. As a result, western liberal democratic beliefs will have a different impact on asian populations than they will on white populations. Given my own personal knowledge of asia and my experiences with asian people, they generally tend towards pragmatism and eschew lofty, abstract political notions. Thus, I can't see asians becoming virulently SJW in the same way that whites are, I mean yeah there might be some outliers here and there, but on the whole most asians will be indifferent to the numerous kinds of pathologies that accompany western liberal democratic beliefs. That's why IMO you're getting worked up over nothing. Western liberal democratic beliefs will only stick around in asia in proportion to their actual utility within east asian societies. For useless or even detrimental western liberal democratic beliefs, they will have a very short lifespan in east asia and be soundly rejected since there is not a wide enough receptivity from the population to maintain and repropagate these kinds of ideas.

    Now it has become clear that you don’t read my comments — which is fine, but don’t pretend you did.

    I am not part of the alt-right. I am one of few people on Unz who doesn’t disparage minorities. Read through my history. Unequal treatment does not mean “treated like crap” — that itself is a western assumption that only egalitarianism is just. White people are in fact, doing it wrong. You seem to agree, so your criticism boils down to saying “You sound too forceful!”

    Quote me the backpedaling part, and I’ll explain why you’re wrong.

    No, HBD reductionism is what’s one dimensional. Biology is not sufficient defense against ideological infection. Asians are not a different species. A partial, even temporary lapse into SJWism is still undesirable. Why not avoid illness altogether?

    You’re acting like liberal democracy isn’t hegemonic, even though it’s being forced on almost every country on the planet. You let me know when the west will respect the political systems founded on the “racial sensibilities of other races”, and then we’ll talk. Not once have I asked anyone to adopt the Asian system. The west (and every country) has a long history of non-liberal, non-democratic governance to fall back on.

    Like many others here, if you had based your response on my comment and not my last name, you would not have come to such an embarrassing litany of erroneous conclusions.

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    • Replies: @gshs
    China has had a few queens or empreaa dowagers who are effectively rulers in the past such as wu zetian and queen lu of han, who was the wife of liu bang, and except for tzu Chi they have not been worse on average than the male rulers, yes the female rulers may be harsh, but you are talking about a culture where jurisprudence treats killing not only the offender but his entire bloodline as standard practice, which is beyond the pale even in the middle ages in Europe, in fact Russia may have gotten its oriental despotism from the mongols.
  145. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @alt-right liberal white


    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You’ve read too much Moldbug, dude.
     
    the irony about @jason liu is that he presumably believes in HBD, yet he seems to forget that different races have different affinities for different political systems. So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities while at the same time saying that instead we should adopt political ideologies that typically appeal more to the unique racial sensibilities of asians. Jason Liu is clueless and in my opinion doth protest too much

    I agree, and incidentally your moniker could describe me too.

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  146. @alt-right liberal white
    nope. Ive been around this corner of the internet ever since the alt-right took off so I can speak with authority on this topic. From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies. Furthermore, many WN/alt-righters don't care about imperialism in the sense of the white man's burden aka bringing civilization to the downtrodden dark races, rather they are supportive of imperialism in the sense of creating living space for white people and exploiting the resources of the countries that they would hypothetically colonize. All of what I have said is readily apparent to anybody that spends any amount of time browsing the comments sections and forums of the alt-right. Two caveats:

    1.I said that a very large proportion of the alt-right feels this way or is sympathetic to the idea. I am not making the case that the majority feel this way, because truthfully I have not gotten that impression.

    2.As stated in the segment of the comment that you quoted, I was only addressing a certain demographic of the alt-right; namely those people that are as politically militant as Jason Liu. You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people. Because I have seen just the opposite. On the contrary, it is the more genteel portion of the alt-right that generally disavows imperialism.

    You are mistaken.

    a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies

    You betray your liberal background here. Liberals are apt to conflate these two things (as things they define themselves against) but one can easily stand without the other, and does among the alt-right. They have no interest in empire. Indeed they see their role as encouraging the other peoples of the world to do what they seek to do in their own country – secure self-determination and sovereignty for their people.

    Vox Day’s 16 points are very specific on this point, for instance. It’s why he’s translated them into so many languages. If Vox isn’t militant enough for you, I don’t know what to tell you.

    You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people.

    They’ve seen imperialism almost destroy white people, whether past whites trying to inflict it overseas or today’s whites bearing the blunt of the globohomo empire here at home. I not only make the case, but you’d have to be blinded by prog propaganda not to think likewise.

    The sort of people you’re worried about will always gravitate to the strong horse, whatever the politics or principles of the movement it embodies. That has nothing to do with alt-right, left, or center.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    your problem is that you speak too broadly and ironically you are the one conflating the issues. You would have more credibility if you were just trying to speak about certain segments of the alt-right, but on the contrary you attempt to make sweeping statements about the alt-right which just aren't true. The fact of the matter is that everything I said is accurate. There is a rather large (although not necessarily a majority) contingent of the alt-right who are either supportive of some form of darwinian imperialism (survival of the fittest) or are sympathetic to the notion. I have seen this too many times for it to be a coincidence. Nothing you said disproves it, your argument basically comes down to PR talking points, you state what segments of the alt-right believe in theory, but not what they actually believes in practice. Again I want to emphasize that your problem in this debate is not that what you are saying is incorrect. It is not incorrect, rather you are applying it to too broad of a demographic. Only a certain portion of the alt-right feels the way that you are describing, likewise unfortunately quite a large proportion of the alt-right is quite sanguine towards the idea of imperialism and no amount of handwaving on your behalf changes this (obvious) fact. IMO it is usually the hardliners in the alt-right movement who feel this way but also the newcomers or part time alt-righters who haven't quite got the memo yet and still think its edgy to instinctively support against anything that liberals hate. (IE colonialism)
  147. @Anon
    "Being murdered and raped en masse by the Japanese had something to do with that “opting out”, I suspect. Conflating brutal invasions with peaceful migrations marks you as a moron."

    You know, you goddamn Chinese really make me laugh.

    https://youtu.be/9DZNDEqcSi0?t=46s

    Japanese invasion became brutal because Chinese didn't allow a 'peaceful migration' of Japanese into Manchuria and beyond. 'Xenophobic' Chinese said to 'peacefully migrating' Japanese, "you no come here". You see, if China had not resisted 'peaceful' Japanese settlement and colonization of China, the Rape of Nanking would not have happened.

    Of course, I'm being facetious, you moron. Japanese had no right to move into China, even 'peacefully'. China didn't belong to them. And Chinese had every reason to resist Japanese incursions and eventually opt for war... which is when Japan became esp brutal.

    But it was the same in Tibet. Tibetans initially tolerated Chinese migrations long long ago. But more and more came, and then the Chinese Imperial forces conquered Tibet.
    In the 20th century, Chinese lost direct control over Tibet, and other great powers were looking to gain control over it. But when China became an ally against Japan, the Western powers decided to go along with the notion that Tibet is part of China.

    Tibetans wanted only independence and freedom. Since China was the main threat, they leaned toward other nations. But in the end, Tibet was too isolated and too distant for the great powers to intervene against the Chinese. Besides, Europe had its hands full with other problems at home and in Africa and Middle East to care too much about Tibet.

    And then, the Communists invaded with brutal force in the late 50s and killed 10,000s and destroyed many temples and crushed Tibetan culture.

    Since then, there has been lots of 'peaceful' migrations of Chinese into Tibet, but this has been possible because Chinese military has control over Tibet. Tibetans better not resist this 'peaceful' migration because, if they did, they will be crushed.

    It's like Palestinians had no means to stop the 'peaceful' migration of Zionists into Palestine under British Imperialism. How did that turn out in the end for the Palestinians?
    And today, Israel allows 'peaceful' migrations of Jewish 'settlers' into Jerusalem and West Bank.
    And since globalists have control over EU institutions, they are allowing the 'peaceful' migrations of Africans and Muslims into European homelands.

    So much of what happens 'peacefully' happens with the backing of the threat of Brute Power.

    Listening to Chinese logic makes it clear why so many nations in Asia and around the world don't trust Chinese. Chinese are like snakes. Vile and venomous. Granted, other groups around the world are just as nasty, but Chinese have this middle kingdom arrogance that is sickening to the bone.

    I am not Chinese. And I agree with you about Tibet and Tibetans, but it just proves my point rather than yours. There is a fundamental difference between foreigners coming into your country in tanks and fighter planes, and foreigners lining up at their closest US consulate seeking visas. If you don’t get that distinction, I’ll repeat my earlier assertion that you are a moron.

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  148. @Rick Derris
    An interesting read here at Unz.

    I've always found it a bit strange that the Chinese are intensely "pro-Han" but Chinese girls *always* want American or European white guys - even the Chinese girls who are permanent residents of the USA or a European country.

    No idea why - maybe I'll read Heartiste or VoxDay to find out.

    And vice-versa, nationalist white guys like the Chinese girls, to white girls’ chagrin, see above comment by Hannah Katz. Steve has written a lot about this. There’s a parallel thing going with white girls and black guys. It’s some kind of testosterone ladder effect… Losers in a free-for-all: black girls and Asian guys.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    nationalist white guys like the Chinese girls,
     
    No we don't.
  149. @melendwyr
    I will admit to being concerned when people offer Israel, or China, as examples of how our society should be run. I'm in favor of increasing ethnic solidarity, but not to those degrees and not in those manners.

    Israel and China are vastly different countries in terms of how they organize their society. The thing which they have in common, which is perhaps ethnocentricity and homogeneity, should not bother anyone. There can be a great variety in styles of government among a nation of people who wish to maintain the organic racial and cultural aspects of their society, and in fact they used to be the status quo before the multicultural experiment began. Why should any people debate over whether or not they will exist in the future? For White peoples, it is not even an acceptable topic of discussion because the elites have already made up their minds. If anything, that is what ought to concern you.

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  150. Apparently peter frost disagree with you in the article go east, young African, and more than a few Chinese men in Africa are taking home their African wives and half African children, as for black men and east Asian women, if you do not have parental inteferance, black men are only slightly less likely to score with east Asian women than black men are with white women, that is their chances may be lower but certainly a lot above zero.

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  151. @Jason Liu
    Now it has become clear that you don't read my comments -- which is fine, but don't pretend you did.

    I am not part of the alt-right. I am one of few people on Unz who doesn't disparage minorities. Read through my history. Unequal treatment does not mean "treated like crap" -- that itself is a western assumption that only egalitarianism is just. White people are in fact, doing it wrong. You seem to agree, so your criticism boils down to saying "You sound too forceful!"

    Quote me the backpedaling part, and I'll explain why you're wrong.

    No, HBD reductionism is what's one dimensional. Biology is not sufficient defense against ideological infection. Asians are not a different species. A partial, even temporary lapse into SJWism is still undesirable. Why not avoid illness altogether?

    You're acting like liberal democracy isn't hegemonic, even though it's being forced on almost every country on the planet. You let me know when the west will respect the political systems founded on the "racial sensibilities of other races", and then we'll talk. Not once have I asked anyone to adopt the Asian system. The west (and every country) has a long history of non-liberal, non-democratic governance to fall back on.

    Like many others here, if you had based your response on my comment and not my last name, you would not have come to such an embarrassing litany of erroneous conclusions.

    China has had a few queens or empreaa dowagers who are effectively rulers in the past such as wu zetian and queen lu of han, who was the wife of liu bang, and except for tzu Chi they have not been worse on average than the male rulers, yes the female rulers may be harsh, but you are talking about a culture where jurisprudence treats killing not only the offender but his entire bloodline as standard practice, which is beyond the pale even in the middle ages in Europe, in fact Russia may have gotten its oriental despotism from the mongols.

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  152. @Anon

    The Enlightenment eventually led to American Progressivism, the greatest scourge our civilisation has ever encountered.
     
    Only a few bemoan Teddy Roosevelt's trust busting and regulation of labor and food safety.

    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You've read too much Moldbug, dude.

    The Enlightenment is the ultimate source of all silly utopian ideas.
     
    Correction: Marxism and its "ends justify the means" approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures -- including fascism, which was simply a response to Bolshevist insurrections in Germany, Italy, and Spain.

    Correction: Marxism and its “ends justify the means” approach is the ultimate source of 20th century political failures

    Marxism was a direct result of the Enlightenment.

    The French Revolution was the first attempt to construct utopia. It was the first time the utopians discovered that utopia could only be built on a mountain of corpses. It didn’t discourage them at all.

    Marxism was just another variant on Enlightenment thinking.

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  153. @Seth Largo
    He’d suggest atheism, command-control economy, ethnic chauvinism, and authoritarian gov’t.

    Different ethnicities can thrive under different social and political economies, the end result of very different though equally complex historical trajectories.

    No one, however, can thrive long term under the current American social and political economy. I think Liu is right to suggest that we learn to separate the baby from the bathwater if we have any interest in salvaging our secular republic.

    That said, contra Liu, I don't think it's possible to construct an American nationalism on purely ethnic grounds. That ship sailed the minute those morons in the South decided they were too lazy to pick their own cotton. Unless demographic trends change, America will soon be 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 20% Asian, and 10% black. If Americans were smart like the Chinese, they never would have let this happen. However, it's happened, the genie isn't going back in the bottle, so we have a difficult question to answer: what can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?

    My answer is: probably nothing. Which is why I'm having my kid learn Mandarin and praying he marries a Han girl, so that maybe my grandkids can marry Hans and then my great-grandkids can repatriate themselves back to China.

    Unless demographic trends change, America will soon be 40% white, 30% Hispanic, 20% Asian, and 10% black. If Americans were smart like the Chinese, they never would have let this happen. However, it’s happened, the genie isn’t going back in the bottle, so we have a difficult question to answer: what can unite these groups? Can anything unite them?

    One thing can; the millions of Chinese people who would give their eye teeth to leave Han Valhalla and move to L.A.

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  154. @Bill B.
    The paper opened with robust and quite interesting comments about non-western hypocrisy etc. but then went all silly:

    Latin America and Africa are much more comfortable with messy diversity, and surveys show that their younger cohorts are quite cosmopolitan (Furia 2005). Much of the world’s demographic and economic growth will be concentrated there in coming decades, and not in the likes of Japan, China, and the Emirates. There is good reason to hope, therefore, that world order can be shaped along lines of openness rather than closure.
     
    The writers key problem is that he cannot envisage a world without a (liberal) umpire keeping a benchmark of acceptable conduct for putative "global citizens". That the world might revert to what it has always been prior to the mid-20th Century.

    Latin America and Africa are much more comfortable with messy diversity

    Are Africans comfortable with diversity? How much diversity is there in Zimbabwe these days? And I seem to remember that diversity had a few minor problems in Rwanda a while back.

    Of course South Africa, the Rainbow Nation, is a shining example of just how comfortable Africans are with diversity. Apart from the small matter of the slow genocide of the whites. And the tribal hatreds.

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  155. @alt-right liberal white
    nope. Ive been around this corner of the internet ever since the alt-right took off so I can speak with authority on this topic. From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies. Furthermore, many WN/alt-righters don't care about imperialism in the sense of the white man's burden aka bringing civilization to the downtrodden dark races, rather they are supportive of imperialism in the sense of creating living space for white people and exploiting the resources of the countries that they would hypothetically colonize. All of what I have said is readily apparent to anybody that spends any amount of time browsing the comments sections and forums of the alt-right. Two caveats:

    1.I said that a very large proportion of the alt-right feels this way or is sympathetic to the idea. I am not making the case that the majority feel this way, because truthfully I have not gotten that impression.

    2.As stated in the segment of the comment that you quoted, I was only addressing a certain demographic of the alt-right; namely those people that are as politically militant as Jason Liu. You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people. Because I have seen just the opposite. On the contrary, it is the more genteel portion of the alt-right that generally disavows imperialism.

    You are mistaken.

    From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies.

    From what I’ve seen, the alt-right harbours a disturbing number of morons whose grasp on reality is so tenuous as to be almost non-existent.

    These morons are probably only a small minority of the alt-right but they’re very noisy and very childish. They’re trying desperately hard to shock Mom and Dad. It’s their total detachment from reality that is the problem. They are effectively discrediting any attempt to build a politically viable anti-immigration nationalist movement.

    Of course it’s quite possible that many are paid trolls (quite likely paid by people like Soros) or FBI plants. Either way they have set back the anti-immigration nationalist cause, possibly be decades. The alt-right has become political poison.

    Most people who are anti-immigration nationalists have no problem with people of other races, they just believe that multi-culturalism is unworkable and destructive. They believe that everyone, regardless of ethnicity, is better off living in their own culturally homogeneous countries. These voices of reason are being drowned out by the morons.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    So you're pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here. I have repeatedly stated that there is a large proportion of the alt-right who is totally on board with or sympathetic to imperialism, however I never claimed that it was the entire alt-right that believes this. That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don't represent the "TRUE" alt-right. Also its not a small minority that feels this way either. (nor would I claim its a majority of the alt-right for that matter.) Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future) This is our dirty laundry and just trying to handwave it away or trying to act like these sensibilities don't exist is pointless, it is what it is, I am just pointing it out, that is all.
  156. @alt-right liberal white


    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You’ve read too much Moldbug, dude.
     
    the irony about @jason liu is that he presumably believes in HBD, yet he seems to forget that different races have different affinities for different political systems. So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities while at the same time saying that instead we should adopt political ideologies that typically appeal more to the unique racial sensibilities of asians. Jason Liu is clueless and in my opinion doth protest too much

    So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities

    Those political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities, like liberal democracy, have led us to disaster. They have created degenerate decadent societies.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    I hate to break it to you but that's part and parcel of western societies. Western societies are more dynamic and creative than eastern societies, but as a result we usually get a little too carried away with novelty and burn ourselves out sooner as well. That is more or less how we are, we are a lot more restless than our eastern neighbors and we are naturally responsive to ideologies that speak to this restlessness. This is the bigger picture. That being said, is what you're saying incorrect? No, its not. Rather my point of contention is simply that Jason Liu is silly for his ad nauseam advocacy of how he thinks western people should order their societies without taking into account the uniqueness of the western racial psychology. Yeah its obvious that these days western liberal democracy is not working out too well for white folks, but this doesn't change the fact of the matter that a large number of whites DO support western liberal democracy and everything it entails. Thus, even if you can objectively state that western liberal democratic ideas are bad for white people, it doesn't matter since its mostly white people that support these ideas. This is what Jason misses with his cookie cutter approach to ideology for the peoples of the world, he simply fails to take into account that different races generally like to do things in different ways and is blinded by his dogmatism. As a result, its hard to take anything he says seriously.
  157. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Dave Pinsen
    Brexit, the failure of the Italian referendum, and the French presidential primaries all are, at least in part, revolts against mass immigration to Europe. Even Merkel is talking about deporting some Muslims now.

    No one has an accurate account of how much bad debt is floating around in China, and Chinese are trying to get money out of the country, with China limiting ATM withdrawals in Macau. The idea that its economy is going to keep doubling for decades without any recessions, depressions, or slower growth is daft.

    Look.

    It’s China that’s bankrolling the USA, not the USA bankrolling China.
    In the final analysis, all that matters is who has got all the gold – that is trade surplus – despite all the shit the modern breed of economist con themselves and the gullible with.

    And as for Europe, if it had a hope in Hell of controlling third world immigration, then it would have done something about that egregious, obvious, massive ongoing criminal fraud of asylum-faking invasion now, at this very moment, taking place as a global sick joke.

    Instead, it gives the criminal invaders a taxi-service to Italy, and a warm place in which to shit.

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  158. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @alt-right liberal white
    I think its humorous that you have an english first name (assuming that is your real name), and you speak fluent english (thus suggesting that you live in a western country), yet you are so rabidly anti-diversity. While I agree with your ideas in a broad sense, I do think that you seem to be confused about your place in the world and how you are perceived. First of all, i'm assuming that you're a 2nd generation Chinese, because given your extreme political vitirol, I don't think you would have immigrated to the US or some other western country to begin with if you weren't. Secondly your english is top notch. So, working on the assumption that you are indeed a 2nd generation chinese immigrant in some western country, I think that you take the openmindedness and liberality of white people for granted. You talk a strong game about how stupid whites and westerners are for embracing diversity (somewhat true but besides the point in your case), yet i'm willing to wager that youre a personal, and direct beneficiary of these same kinds of white people. Furthermore, given your political views, it seems that you're fairly familiar with this corner of the internet. So that being said, I'm shocked that you seem to be so naive about how a relatively large proportion of this political sphere feel about your ilk. You do realize that your white political equivalent wouldn't hesitate to deport you? But before deporting you he would probably enjoy dehumanizing and humiliating you. The fact is, a very large swath of the hard nationalist right don't give a damn about the fact that you agree with them politically, and contrary to what you may believe, they don't see you as an ally against globalization, rather they see you as a useful idiot. Ironically, that makes you the equivalent to the white liberals that you are constantly railing against. Now, assuming that you are not a citizen of some western country and are just judging this situation from afar, I still think that you're a cuck. Why is that? Because most of the militant whites that you are convinced are your political allies never truly gave up the idea of colonialism and if they could then they wouldn't hesitate to recolonize the rest of the world. The whole shtick about WN/ethnonationalism just being about self love and not about hating others is just something they occasionally spout for PR purposes, but if you scratch beneath the surface you will find that they are actually fully on board with imperial adventures, as long as its imperial adventures that benefit THEM (as opposed to our imperial adventures in the middle east which they hate, not because imperialism is wrong, but because israel is the primary beneficiary and not them). So basically by cheerleading for the most extreme elements of this political sphere, you are essentially supporting the same people that wouldn't hesitate to colonize whatever country you reside in. Have fun with that! Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.

    TLDR Mr.Liu is mad that whites are not sufficiently racist enough and takes for granted that he can walk down the street without being victimized by racist idiots who are kept in check by the liberality of western nations and western people which Mr.Liu constantly denigrates

    Having experienced the third world imported into their homelands, alt-righters don’t want anything whatever to do with the third world – this means, absolutely, not ‘colonizing’ it.
    All the alt-right wants is the ‘right’ to be left alone.
    On the other hand, the third-world just will not, cannot, leave the white world alone.

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  159. @Desiderius

    a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies
     
    You betray your liberal background here. Liberals are apt to conflate these two things (as things they define themselves against) but one can easily stand without the other, and does among the alt-right. They have no interest in empire. Indeed they see their role as encouraging the other peoples of the world to do what they seek to do in their own country - secure self-determination and sovereignty for their people.

    Vox Day's 16 points are very specific on this point, for instance. It's why he's translated them into so many languages. If Vox isn't militant enough for you, I don't know what to tell you.

    You cannot seriously make the case that the most extreme elements of the alt-right disavow imperialism that is beneficial for white people.
     
    They've seen imperialism almost destroy white people, whether past whites trying to inflict it overseas or today's whites bearing the blunt of the globohomo empire here at home. I not only make the case, but you'd have to be blinded by prog propaganda not to think likewise.

    The sort of people you're worried about will always gravitate to the strong horse, whatever the politics or principles of the movement it embodies. That has nothing to do with alt-right, left, or center.

    your problem is that you speak too broadly and ironically you are the one conflating the issues. You would have more credibility if you were just trying to speak about certain segments of the alt-right, but on the contrary you attempt to make sweeping statements about the alt-right which just aren’t true. The fact of the matter is that everything I said is accurate. There is a rather large (although not necessarily a majority) contingent of the alt-right who are either supportive of some form of darwinian imperialism (survival of the fittest) or are sympathetic to the notion. I have seen this too many times for it to be a coincidence. Nothing you said disproves it, your argument basically comes down to PR talking points, you state what segments of the alt-right believe in theory, but not what they actually believes in practice. Again I want to emphasize that your problem in this debate is not that what you are saying is incorrect. It is not incorrect, rather you are applying it to too broad of a demographic. Only a certain portion of the alt-right feels the way that you are describing, likewise unfortunately quite a large proportion of the alt-right is quite sanguine towards the idea of imperialism and no amount of handwaving on your behalf changes this (obvious) fact. IMO it is usually the hardliners in the alt-right movement who feel this way but also the newcomers or part time alt-righters who haven’t quite got the memo yet and still think its edgy to instinctively support against anything that liberals hate. (IE colonialism)

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  160. @Charles Erwin Wilson

    Leftists are completely evil and leftism has no redeeming qualities at all
     
    Well, the fact that you perpetrated the greatest of all crimes against humanity might have something to do with this. But as you and yours are impervious to both reason and experience, it is no wonder you still abase yourself before the great god Marx.

    this is cute. You’re probably autistic and as a result of that you see everything in black and white. The truth of the matter is, leftism and leftists are not completely evil and leftism in an american context actually has some good points. Personally I believe that environmentalism, and concern for workers rights is a positive thing. As well as (reasonable) attempts to accommodate women and minorities. These things I have mentioned are not necessarily incompatible or mutually exclusive with right wing/alt right views. The fact that you think that one must be 100% right wing or left wing just goes to show how shallow your thinking is.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Wash the blood off your hands of just those tortured and murdered by you and yours in the 20th Century and then come back and explain "shallow thinking" tadpole. Your hydrophobia is showing.
  161. @dfordoom

    So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities
     
    Those political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities, like liberal democracy, have led us to disaster. They have created degenerate decadent societies.

    I hate to break it to you but that’s part and parcel of western societies. Western societies are more dynamic and creative than eastern societies, but as a result we usually get a little too carried away with novelty and burn ourselves out sooner as well. That is more or less how we are, we are a lot more restless than our eastern neighbors and we are naturally responsive to ideologies that speak to this restlessness. This is the bigger picture. That being said, is what you’re saying incorrect? No, its not. Rather my point of contention is simply that Jason Liu is silly for his ad nauseam advocacy of how he thinks western people should order their societies without taking into account the uniqueness of the western racial psychology. Yeah its obvious that these days western liberal democracy is not working out too well for white folks, but this doesn’t change the fact of the matter that a large number of whites DO support western liberal democracy and everything it entails. Thus, even if you can objectively state that western liberal democratic ideas are bad for white people, it doesn’t matter since its mostly white people that support these ideas. This is what Jason misses with his cookie cutter approach to ideology for the peoples of the world, he simply fails to take into account that different races generally like to do things in different ways and is blinded by his dogmatism. As a result, its hard to take anything he says seriously.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Yeah its obvious that these days western liberal democracy is not working out too well for white folks, but this doesn’t change the fact of the matter that a large number of whites DO support western liberal democracy and everything it entails
     
    Western liberal democracy is doomed. The globalist elite do not intend to allow democracy to survive. Look at their response to Brexit and the election of Trump. They intend to have, in practice, a one-party state.

    Take a look at surveys of the public's attitudes towards its elected political representatives. They regard them, on the whole, with contempt and outright hatred. The public belief in western liberal democracy is minimal and it's continuing to decline rapidly.

    We're almost certainly going to end up with an authoritarian non-democratic system of government. The EU has almost achieved that objective already. It will most likely be a globalist government and it will be very very unpleasant. The only alternative would be an authoritarian populist nationalist regime.

    I'm not saying any of this is a good thing but the failure of western liberal democracy makes it inevitable. Western liberal democracy is dead and the corpse is beginning to stink.
  162. @dfordoom

    From what I have seen, a very large proportion of the alt-right harbors imperialistic and racially chauvinistic tendencies.

     

    From what I've seen, the alt-right harbours a disturbing number of morons whose grasp on reality is so tenuous as to be almost non-existent.

    These morons are probably only a small minority of the alt-right but they're very noisy and very childish. They're trying desperately hard to shock Mom and Dad. It's their total detachment from reality that is the problem. They are effectively discrediting any attempt to build a politically viable anti-immigration nationalist movement.

    Of course it's quite possible that many are paid trolls (quite likely paid by people like Soros) or FBI plants. Either way they have set back the anti-immigration nationalist cause, possibly be decades. The alt-right has become political poison.

    Most people who are anti-immigration nationalists have no problem with people of other races, they just believe that multi-culturalism is unworkable and destructive. They believe that everyone, regardless of ethnicity, is better off living in their own culturally homogeneous countries. These voices of reason are being drowned out by the morons.

    So you’re pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here. I have repeatedly stated that there is a large proportion of the alt-right who is totally on board with or sympathetic to imperialism, however I never claimed that it was the entire alt-right that believes this. That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don’t represent the “TRUE” alt-right. Also its not a small minority that feels this way either. (nor would I claim its a majority of the alt-right for that matter.) Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future) This is our dirty laundry and just trying to handwave it away or trying to act like these sensibilities don’t exist is pointless, it is what it is, I am just pointing it out, that is all.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    So you’re pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here.
     
    Correct.

    That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don’t represent the “TRUE” alt-right.
     
    I should point out that I don't see myself as belonging to the alt-right. In fact I'm not even on the Right. And I don't really approve of the alt-right. So I'm not setting myself up as a defender of the alt-right.

    I do think there are major divisions within the alt-right. There are many who adhere to the Steve Sailer idea of rejecting both Invade the World and Invite the World. They're happy with respecting other cultures but they think that every culture is better off within its own country. They're white separatists rather than white supremacists. I have no disagreement with this.

    There are other alt-righters who adopt a worrying white supremacist and overtly racist tone. They're the ones who discredit the alt-right and they discredit nationalists and anti-immigrationists in general.

    I honestly don't know how big a proportion of the alt-right this latter group represents. It's impossible to know because the nutjobs make so much noise that they give the impression of being the majority but they may be just a vocal minority. You may be right in thinking that they're a significant proportion of the alt-right.

    Since I'm not alt-right myself I wouldn't care very much except that the alt-right is giving all opponents of globalism a bad name.
    , @dfordoom

    Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future)
     
    Among American alt-righters there is a disturbing tendency to accept the "American exceptionalism" nonsense although they often twist it into white exceptionalism or European exceptionalism.

    American exceptionalism, manifest destiny, Making America Great Again - these are the arrogant (and unfounded) idiocies that have made the US so hated.

    Americans have never been able to accept the idea of the US being just another country, with its good points and its bad points, and they have never been able to accept the idea that other countries have the right to decide their own destinies. American hostility to countries like Russia, China and Iran is entirely driven by the assumption (an unfortunate mixture of arrogance and paranoia) that any country that does not embrace American culture and does not accept vassal status must be an enemy and therefore must be destroyed.

    I don't think this is particularly an alt-right thing, it's more an American thing.

    But essentially I think we are, once again, pretty much in agreement.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Ease up on the glue sniffing.
  163. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @European-American
    And vice-versa, nationalist white guys like the Chinese girls, to white girls' chagrin, see above comment by Hannah Katz. Steve has written a lot about this. There's a parallel thing going with white girls and black guys. It's some kind of testosterone ladder effect... Losers in a free-for-all: black girls and Asian guys.

    nationalist white guys like the Chinese girls,

    No we don’t.

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  164. @alt-right liberal white
    So you're pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here. I have repeatedly stated that there is a large proportion of the alt-right who is totally on board with or sympathetic to imperialism, however I never claimed that it was the entire alt-right that believes this. That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don't represent the "TRUE" alt-right. Also its not a small minority that feels this way either. (nor would I claim its a majority of the alt-right for that matter.) Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future) This is our dirty laundry and just trying to handwave it away or trying to act like these sensibilities don't exist is pointless, it is what it is, I am just pointing it out, that is all.

    So you’re pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here.

    Correct.

    That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don’t represent the “TRUE” alt-right.

    I should point out that I don’t see myself as belonging to the alt-right. In fact I’m not even on the Right. And I don’t really approve of the alt-right. So I’m not setting myself up as a defender of the alt-right.

    I do think there are major divisions within the alt-right. There are many who adhere to the Steve Sailer idea of rejecting both Invade the World and Invite the World. They’re happy with respecting other cultures but they think that every culture is better off within its own country. They’re white separatists rather than white supremacists. I have no disagreement with this.

    There are other alt-righters who adopt a worrying white supremacist and overtly racist tone. They’re the ones who discredit the alt-right and they discredit nationalists and anti-immigrationists in general.

    I honestly don’t know how big a proportion of the alt-right this latter group represents. It’s impossible to know because the nutjobs make so much noise that they give the impression of being the majority but they may be just a vocal minority. You may be right in thinking that they’re a significant proportion of the alt-right.

    Since I’m not alt-right myself I wouldn’t care very much except that the alt-right is giving all opponents of globalism a bad name.

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  165. @alt-right liberal white
    I hate to break it to you but that's part and parcel of western societies. Western societies are more dynamic and creative than eastern societies, but as a result we usually get a little too carried away with novelty and burn ourselves out sooner as well. That is more or less how we are, we are a lot more restless than our eastern neighbors and we are naturally responsive to ideologies that speak to this restlessness. This is the bigger picture. That being said, is what you're saying incorrect? No, its not. Rather my point of contention is simply that Jason Liu is silly for his ad nauseam advocacy of how he thinks western people should order their societies without taking into account the uniqueness of the western racial psychology. Yeah its obvious that these days western liberal democracy is not working out too well for white folks, but this doesn't change the fact of the matter that a large number of whites DO support western liberal democracy and everything it entails. Thus, even if you can objectively state that western liberal democratic ideas are bad for white people, it doesn't matter since its mostly white people that support these ideas. This is what Jason misses with his cookie cutter approach to ideology for the peoples of the world, he simply fails to take into account that different races generally like to do things in different ways and is blinded by his dogmatism. As a result, its hard to take anything he says seriously.

    Yeah its obvious that these days western liberal democracy is not working out too well for white folks, but this doesn’t change the fact of the matter that a large number of whites DO support western liberal democracy and everything it entails

    Western liberal democracy is doomed. The globalist elite do not intend to allow democracy to survive. Look at their response to Brexit and the election of Trump. They intend to have, in practice, a one-party state.

    Take a look at surveys of the public’s attitudes towards its elected political representatives. They regard them, on the whole, with contempt and outright hatred. The public belief in western liberal democracy is minimal and it’s continuing to decline rapidly.

    We’re almost certainly going to end up with an authoritarian non-democratic system of government. The EU has almost achieved that objective already. It will most likely be a globalist government and it will be very very unpleasant. The only alternative would be an authoritarian populist nationalist regime.

    I’m not saying any of this is a good thing but the failure of western liberal democracy makes it inevitable. Western liberal democracy is dead and the corpse is beginning to stink.

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  166. @alt-right liberal white
    So you're pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here. I have repeatedly stated that there is a large proportion of the alt-right who is totally on board with or sympathetic to imperialism, however I never claimed that it was the entire alt-right that believes this. That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don't represent the "TRUE" alt-right. Also its not a small minority that feels this way either. (nor would I claim its a majority of the alt-right for that matter.) Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future) This is our dirty laundry and just trying to handwave it away or trying to act like these sensibilities don't exist is pointless, it is what it is, I am just pointing it out, that is all.

    Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future)

    Among American alt-righters there is a disturbing tendency to accept the “American exceptionalism” nonsense although they often twist it into white exceptionalism or European exceptionalism.

    American exceptionalism, manifest destiny, Making America Great Again – these are the arrogant (and unfounded) idiocies that have made the US so hated.

    Americans have never been able to accept the idea of the US being just another country, with its good points and its bad points, and they have never been able to accept the idea that other countries have the right to decide their own destinies. American hostility to countries like Russia, China and Iran is entirely driven by the assumption (an unfortunate mixture of arrogance and paranoia) that any country that does not embrace American culture and does not accept vassal status must be an enemy and therefore must be destroyed.

    I don’t think this is particularly an alt-right thing, it’s more an American thing.

    But essentially I think we are, once again, pretty much in agreement.

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    • Replies: @alt-right liberal white
    thanks for your insightful replies, in some ways you articulated my own thoughts better than I did. Yeah it appears that we are pretty much on the same page then.
  167. @alt-right liberal white
    this is cute. You're probably autistic and as a result of that you see everything in black and white. The truth of the matter is, leftism and leftists are not completely evil and leftism in an american context actually has some good points. Personally I believe that environmentalism, and concern for workers rights is a positive thing. As well as (reasonable) attempts to accommodate women and minorities. These things I have mentioned are not necessarily incompatible or mutually exclusive with right wing/alt right views. The fact that you think that one must be 100% right wing or left wing just goes to show how shallow your thinking is.

    Wash the blood off your hands of just those tortured and murdered by you and yours in the 20th Century and then come back and explain “shallow thinking” tadpole. Your hydrophobia is showing.

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  168. @alt-right liberal white
    So you're pretty much saying you agree with me then. To me it sounds like there is no disagreement here. I have repeatedly stated that there is a large proportion of the alt-right who is totally on board with or sympathetic to imperialism, however I never claimed that it was the entire alt-right that believes this. That being said, its highly disingenuous of you to try to disown these elements of the alt-right and act like they don't represent the "TRUE" alt-right. Also its not a small minority that feels this way either. (nor would I claim its a majority of the alt-right for that matter.) Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future) This is our dirty laundry and just trying to handwave it away or trying to act like these sensibilities don't exist is pointless, it is what it is, I am just pointing it out, that is all.

    Ease up on the glue sniffing.

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  169. @dfordoom

    Like I said, the unfortunate fact is that a large proportion of the alt-right wants to have their cake and eat it too; they want to preserve their lands, race and heritage, but have little compunction about denying this to others as well. (either past, present or future)
     
    Among American alt-righters there is a disturbing tendency to accept the "American exceptionalism" nonsense although they often twist it into white exceptionalism or European exceptionalism.

    American exceptionalism, manifest destiny, Making America Great Again - these are the arrogant (and unfounded) idiocies that have made the US so hated.

    Americans have never been able to accept the idea of the US being just another country, with its good points and its bad points, and they have never been able to accept the idea that other countries have the right to decide their own destinies. American hostility to countries like Russia, China and Iran is entirely driven by the assumption (an unfortunate mixture of arrogance and paranoia) that any country that does not embrace American culture and does not accept vassal status must be an enemy and therefore must be destroyed.

    I don't think this is particularly an alt-right thing, it's more an American thing.

    But essentially I think we are, once again, pretty much in agreement.

    thanks for your insightful replies, in some ways you articulated my own thoughts better than I did. Yeah it appears that we are pretty much on the same page then.

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  170. @Jason Liu
    Very well, I await your task force to deport legal immigrants. There is one, right?

    Because if not, then we immigrants are going to turn this land into something very different than your ancestor's Enlightenment republic.

    No, you’ll just lose interest and go innovation-parasitize some other people’s creations.

    Innovators innovate.

    Not everyone is hardwired to innovate.

    Though you won’t be alone in overweening pride in racial parasitism.

    Speaking of, I often read in Chinese media that China’s very welcoming of Jews these days.

    I’m going long on popcorn.

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  171. @alt-right liberal white


    It also led to democracy, the most corrupt and destructive of all political systems.
     
    Tell that to Switzerland, which has engaged in direct, decentralized democracy for 800 years (in the 3 founding cantons). This country, alone in Europe, has been peaceful since the middle ages. You’ve read too much Moldbug, dude.
     
    the irony about @jason liu is that he presumably believes in HBD, yet he seems to forget that different races have different affinities for different political systems. So essentially what we have here is a militantly alt-right chinese guy who is railing against whites for creating and embracing political ideologies that appeal most to our unique racial sensibilities while at the same time saying that instead we should adopt political ideologies that typically appeal more to the unique racial sensibilities of asians. Jason Liu is clueless and in my opinion doth protest too much

    He is simply insisting on the system that he proposes is superior, and providing arguments for such. Liberalism can be a toxic brand since its a popular meme that is at the same time, not based in reality.

    I think you’ve overcomplicating it. I agree with him in general, and yes, even if it’ll cause me to be discriminated against. Its quite understandable when one is a “guest” in a “host” country.

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