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A job market paper:

Mob Violence and Militancy: The Case of Indian Muslims

Saurabh Pant

October 28, 2017

Abstract: When does militancy arise among marginalized minorities? Muslims are a minority in India who face substantial and wide-ranging marginalization. Yet, militant groups, who exploit such grievances, have only been able to create relatively little militancy among Indian Muslims. This is especially puzzling given that marginalized minority Muslim populations in other parts of the world do not exhibit this same reluctance towards militancy. Due to the limitations of existing explanations, I instead posit a novel theoretical framework that highlights a key factor determining the extent of militant mobilization within aggrieved minority groups: the group’s perception of protection. Using this framework, I argue that minority Indian Muslims police themselves to prevent militancy within their community because they fear retaliatory indiscriminate mob violence, and this fear stems from a lack of confidence in the state to definitively protect Muslims from the mob.

In other words, when some Muslims in India get out of line, this is what happens to all the Muslims in the neighborhood, guilty or innocent

So, Muslims in India try harder to police their own communities than they do in Britain or France.

Pant’s theory is not quite that novel … As I explained in a 2013 Taki’s Magazine column on Pakistani grooming gangs in England (a year before the Rotherham Report):

Strikingly, the Pakistani pimps and johns seem astonished that anybody would object to their behavior. If the girls’ parents cared about protecting their daughters, in their view, they would keep them locked up at home like good Muslims do.

The pimps seemed convinced that since their victims’ families haven’t organized lethal vendettas against them like any honorable Pakistani family would, they must not have cared.

Moreover, since the English people hadn’t carried out mass communal violence, such as burning down Pakistani neighborhoods in the time-honored South Asian manner, clearly they didn’t mind.

And if the English government didn’t want Pakistanis to act Pakistani, they wouldn’t let them into England, now would they?

In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.

It seems like England ought to be able to find some compromise path between the BJP view of punish all Muslims (effective as it may be) and the BBC view of punish no Muslims (ineffective as it always is) such as, I dunno, rule of law and punishment of the guilty. But what did the English ever know about maintaining an orderly yet free society?

 
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  1. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    So think how steeped in irony are the tears of the “British” Muslim bigwigs out there frontlashing against the natives’ retributive attacks that barely register if they even materialize at all (bacon sandwiches on mosque doorsteps anyone?) — all before the bodies are cold after their latest terrorist atrocity.

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    • Replies: @bomag

    how steeped in irony are the tears of...
     
    That's the thing; they quickly seize on the tactic of shameless media advocacy for their side while the other side talks about fairness.

    Their skill set is in exploiting social weakness.
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  2. anon says: • Disclaimer

    At your throat or at your feet….

    In the west in 2017 we prefer them at our throat , preferably with scimitar in hand and wearing a backup suicide vest. Having any other preference would be racist , against the race of Islam.

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    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    yeah kind of like when the south had no negro problem despite negroes outnumbering whites, while these days 10% blacks is enough for bedlam
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  3. Yak-15 says:

    In India, Muslims are also equally as wretchedly poor as everyone else. In western nations, the poverty of most Islamic people breeds murderous resentment. I believe this can also explain why blacks ar eparticukatly violent in the new world (even more so than Africa).

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    • Replies: @Fredrik
    On the other hand the individual Muslims are much better off in the West than in their homelands. Somehow that doesn't count. It isn't surprising because at least the children born in the West will compare themselves to locals and not the cousins back home. Obviously this is another argument to keep them out.
    , @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many...yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.
    , @Dot Not Feather
    It seems to me the areas with the most cantankerous Muslims, Delhi and Western Uttar Pradesh and Hyderabad down south are the places with the most connections to high Urdu culture as patronized by the Mughal empire and other wealthy Muslim lords. Deoband in western UP is the center of an influential 19th century Sunni revivalist movement which is the intellectual source of the Taliban.

    Where I'm from the Muslims are mostly the descendents of Hindu converts and quite poor as you mention. They never get any further than passive-agressive acts like cheering for Pakistan in test cricket matches
    , @biz
    Ah yes, the poverty theory of Muslim misbehavior. Suffers from the defect that it is contradicted by all of the available evidence. I'll start the list to give a taste but I'm not in the mood to finish it:

    Jihadi John: Masters in Comp Sci from LSE
    Doctors plot: Name says it all
    Nidal Hasan: MD with comfortable lifestyle
    San Bernardino couple: Earning $70,000 one year out of undergrad
    9/11 hijackers: More Masters degrees in Engineering than I care to count
    Bin Laden: one of the richest men in the world
    and so on

    , @RonaldB
    Consider that in their native lands of origin, effective social control mechanisms existed to keep the sociopath inhabitants in line. I label the inhabitants sociopath because their controls are external and not internal, unlike most westerners.

    Steve's article mentioned the certainty that in their native lands, the tribe of any girl molested would kill the perp if from another tribe. If from the same tribe, the girl's family would kill him. Or, if someone simply offended the mores of his own tribe, the tribal elders would kill him.

    People who evolve under this form of social control immigrate to the West, where people are expected to restrain themselves, and they just go wild. It's like a youngster in a fully-stocked candy store with no adult in sight.
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  4. The “Cool it! You’ll get us into trouble” minority social dynamic.

    As an aside, I note that the paper, like a lot of papers in sociology and political science these days, is grotesquely math-y in parts. Check out page 68, for instance.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54aa3aa4e4b03d35acd2f769/t/59f7caef6c319421a02b6f28/1509411569318/Job+Market+Paper+-+Mob+Violence+and+Militancy.pdf

    The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy, these days. Quantitative and analytic political science types lord it over more verbal types.

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    • LOL: Daniel H
    • Replies: @International Jew
    If it's anything like the situation in economics, not one person on the planet will ever check his math for errors. Because, as everyone tacitly understands, it's just window dressing.
    , @G Pinfold
    The dynamic you’re talking about is all important. A certain Moldbug wrote of how Cromer kept a lid on Egypt (of all crazy places) for decades, such that no one would even imagine it was a hotbed of revolutionary activism, etc.
    South Africa in the 1970s was similar. Law and order was phenomenal, underpinned by the kind of mild terror that said ‘no good will come of being a hothead.’ All of the underlying trouble was in foment, yet it never manifested.
    Ultimately, the whites lost their resolve and the blacks seized the terror; started burning people to death in the streets for insufficient revolutionary zeal. And the rest is History.
    Back to the topic: There is nothing inevitable about History. The Boers were strong for a while but lost their mojo, and they were thoroughly white-anted too by liberal and communist whites. Someone else could in theory do better.
    , @RonaldB
    "The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy..."

    Maybe.

    On the other hand, he is trying to fit the study into the constraints of game theory. If successful, one would be able to predict how much mob violence was necessary and sufficient to keep a lid on Muslims. It might be unjust, but if the predictions worked, no more unjust than necessary, surely a concept to appeal to the Western mind.

    If truly predictive, his game theory modeling might be able to predict whether Steve's suggestion of rigorous law enforcement against actual perpetrators would be successful in suppressing terror violence.
    , @El Dato
    I see no fault in spicing the discussion up with a few quantitative models. Running with this is all fun and games and may actually lead to solid insights. This could even be reused in a forthcoming game, "Un-Civilization: Remove Ziggy From Premises".
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  5. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.

    My theory is that the police looked the other way as a counterterrorism measure.

    As has been noted, ISIS recruits a lot of sexually frustrated Muslim males.

    So these tens of thousands of enslaved white girls are sexually satisfying literal divisions of Muslims, so they have no frustrations to channel into terrorism.

    And enforcing the law would also feed into the religious persecution => religious terrorism pipeline. (The perpetrators are very quick to bring up “racism” in the courtrooms.)

    That’s a lot of bomb plots quashed. Plots that might actually affect the rich.

    Rape jihad channels bomb jihad away from the cosmopolitan upper-middle-class diversity lovers.

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    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    In pre multi-culti Britain, police "looked the other way" when it came to petty crime. The unspoken agreement was, in return, the petty criminal network would assist the police when it came to violent crimes, particularly assaults on police or use of guns.
    If police "look the other way" these days, it is because the political class and the courts has neutralized the police effort in tracking these people down. Not surprising since governments and courts refuse to uphold their own laws. Virtually every country requires an oath and/or pledge of naturalized citizenship that requires:
    1) a declaration of allegiance to a constitution or monarch;
    2) a declaration to obey the laws of the country;
    3) a declaration to defend the country.

    It would be simple to revoke citizenship and deport these people on any of the above grounds. If they were born in the country, deporting the parent(s) who did not report their children could be done on the same grounds. The extension would be revoking the citizenship of the children given the citizenship of the parents would be considered gained by false pretenses/fraud. A conviction for fraud or other criminal act cannot, under natural justice, result in a benefit for the criminal. If child were to remain in the country, it would be a benefit for the parent. The only problem is a lack of political will.
    , @Forbes
    If that's the strategy, it's a massive failure. Bus and tube bombings, and other assorted acts of terrorism have not been prevented, Britain experienced their unauthorized shopping and arson spree in 2011, meanwhile legions went off to fight with ISIS in Syria.

    A better strategy would've encouraged more to leave and fight with ISIS and bar the return of any survivors.

    I doubt young Muslim males get their restless anxieties sexually satisfied by groomed white girls they treat no better than dogs. Grooming girls for prostitution is a game of power and control over those so enslaved. That there's a market for paid sex proves that there are plenty of low life losers.

    Looking the other way appears to be a result of political correctness gone haywire over so-called religious sensibilities, i.e. whites were cucked into yielding in areas where Muslims were a majority. Any attempt to claim grooming was a trade-off in a counterterrorism strategy is the worst sort of amoral historical revisionism.
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  6. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    IOW, and contra conventional wisdom, rather than causing more terrorism, Islamophobia prevents it.

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    • Agree: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @Shoopster
    Strongly disagree with you, Dave. Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) absolutely causes racism. Any group that feels that it's under attack will inevitably lash out. Just look at the rise of aggressive white identity politics in the US.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Like citizens of the past Soviet Union, today we can easily learning the truth on any given subject just by finding what the conventional wisdom is and then learning the opposite.
    , @pyrrhus
    Precisely...Mob violence has always been an antidote to minorities taking advantage of the majority. In England under Henry II, a certain money lending guy named Aaron died, and it was discovered that he was the 2d richest man in England. Henry II confiscated his wealth under the usury laws, including a large loan to the king himself, and there were a number of mob attacks on other money lenders...This counseled some future discretion on the part of such folks...
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  7. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If you consider the hindoo “religion,” it is arguably the most batshit crazy one out there. What do you think following such a faith, especially taking that to a fundamentalist level, does to a human mind? Think about that.

    I mean, come on;

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BTDJ-gkD2HC/?hl=en

    Anyway, so this fellow is advocating that other nations with significant and marginalised Muslims should also adopt similar state sponsored terror tactics?

    You mean, like the west is not already doing that, internally and externally? What do you think is happening in the ME?

    I laugh at the likes of him. The entire Christian\Polytheist world is sitting on top a spiritual time bomb, and you wish to show Muslims their place in your societies, and the world at large?

    If you spiritual losers have the balls, take a day or two and peruse every corner of this website;

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/m01_religion.htm

    You can cow us down, but at least we have True Monotheism. What you have is a one way ticket to Hell.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Muslim government in Dubai looked the other way when that devotee of the Bhagavad Gita, Chrissie Hynde, called the audience ‘cunts’ and told them to ‘stick their phones up their ass’ because some were using cell fones.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Yoga is part of Hinduism. It's pretty popular.
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  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/

    From 1189 to 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms in London, York, and numerous other cities and towns displayed cruelty and barbarity never before seen by English Jews. Indeed, these acts of violence distinguished themselves as some of the worst atrocities committed against European Jews in the Middle Ages….

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Wow! So mob violence DOES work in England. Good news, that. There is some hope left.
    , @AnotherDad
    I'm against communal violence, and the best way--*the way*--you eliminate it is to avoid "communalism", by which I mean you avoid having separate communities. This in fact is what Christianity did--mostly did--in Europe over the last 1500 or so years--suppressed tribalism.

    Yes there is unfortunate history here--the Jews were already there. Some Jews had moved into England and at the time no one was policing the border, nor would have had the longer term understanding that the Jews were going to be a non-integrable tribe as England consolidated a national identity.

    The outcome here though--for England--was very positive. Having expelled the Jews, as England developed its *own* people did the middle-man trading and bureaucratic functions and as result its population was well prepared to thrive in the age of discovery, launch the industrial revolution and build an Empire.

    In contrast the nations in the East that foolishly took in the Jews--i.e. Poland--had the Jews doing their trading and tax-farming. This was great for the Jews who underwent such a huge population expansion that they overflowed the available middle-man occupations and had to buy land and return to farming. (Ex. Fiddler on the Roof.) But this was terrible for the genetic/cultural development of those peoples, for national cohesion of those nations. And having Jewish tax-farmers over the heads of the peasantry energized ethnic antagonisms--which will always exist with separate ethnic groups anyway. The fallout from this in terms of backwardness, misery, destruction and death right on through the last century is horrific. And the toll is still rising as this history infects American politics/culture and threatens to destroy the US and the West.
    The West may simply not survive it.

    The moral is simple. You don't want communalism--don't allow separate communities. In particular keep out of your nation anyone who will be a separate community from your nation.

    Unfortunately this is precisely what the US--and the broader West--has failed to do. And its destruction looms.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Don't worry, we're equal-opportunity mass-murderers. Danes get it too.
    St Brice's Day, 13 Nov 1002. It's only fair.
    https://www.archaeology.org/issues/109-1311/features/1421-viking-england-st-brices-day
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  9. athEIst says:

    Roman law decreed that if a slave killed his master, all slaves in the household would be put to death.

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  10. unit472 says:

    Just finished reading an interesting feature in the Tampa newspaper on the breakdown of social order in the black community. A man a buys house across from a convenience store and the hoodrats take over his yard. Tragic but inevitable given the nature of black people.

    http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/features/house-on-the-corner/clearwater-shooting-defense-anthony-roy/

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    A lot to unpack from that story. The prosecutor and the cops sound like scumbags, no doubt. No one should be charged for killing someone who had just threatened to shoot up a house in an area where the cops don't even do their jobs at all. Mr. Roy seems like a decent albeit dumb individual who did what any self-respecting person would have done in that situation. But wow, was he stupid to move into that house knowing what his mother's prior tenants had gone through. Negros are endlessly fascinating from an anthropological perspective. All of that happened in the USA in the last few years but it might as well have been in prehistoric Africa. They are just so unlike us.
    , @Big Bill
    That story is so sad. The worst offenders are the white police and prosecutors. They cannot police the city. They ignore the gun-toting and drug-dealing for years, then show up and prosecute a decent black man just trying to live right. Detroit is more hopeful. The (black) Detroit police, prosecutors and courts ignore many killings like this. They characterize them as "justifiable homicides" and do not prosecute.

    If the police won't police chaotic neighborhoods, the people have a right to do so without later nit-picking and hair-splitting pilpul.
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  11. Fredrik says:
    @Yak-15
    In India, Muslims are also equally as wretchedly poor as everyone else. In western nations, the poverty of most Islamic people breeds murderous resentment. I believe this can also explain why blacks ar eparticukatly violent in the new world (even more so than Africa).

    On the other hand the individual Muslims are much better off in the West than in their homelands. Somehow that doesn’t count. It isn’t surprising because at least the children born in the West will compare themselves to locals and not the cousins back home. Obviously this is another argument to keep them out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    What cousins back home? The cousins got to come too via family reunification visas. Fortunately, the inbreeding rates are high enough that, unlike the average person of NW Euro descent, all of one's cousin's cousins are probably one's own relatives, and therefore chain migration is finite. Them family trees don't branch!
    , @Yak-15
    It's all about relative wealth. One of the greatest failures of neoclassical economics is the focus on total wealth rather than relative wealth. People are naturally competitive.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    And then the daughters become too Westernized and want to finish school like the neighbor girls instead of marrying a cousin three times their age, so Daddy has to kill them while Mummy hold them down.
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  12. ChrisD says:

    A while ago I listened to an old broadcast from 1997 of the KQED Public Radio’s Forum program with Michael Kransy in San Francisco interviewing American old school leftist philosopher Richard Rorty. At one point Kransy asks Rorty why he thinks the Muslims in Pakistan are so much more militant than the ones in neighbouring India. Rorty begins with a convoluted explanation of Partition and that the Muslims come from the same area basically so it’s not about the ethnic differences, then he concludes: “Every time the Muslims in India wanna get militant they get killed” and Kransky seems to be non plussed and reluctantly agrees. It is absolutely true however, that leaders like Modi have, in the past, massacred Muslim minorities in order to supress jihadi tendencies or domestic terrorism. That has produced a country with a large Muslim population, yet who are mostly peaceful and afraid to become violent or terrorise the Indian populace. It’s difficult to argue that this current situation is “bad” in any way, shape or form.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    From a utilitarian standpoint, it's indeed very hard if not impossible to say that the status quo in India is worse than having a militant Muslim population. But most people in developed countries would probably say that punishing an entire group for the actions of only a portion of its members is the Worst Thing Ever because NAZIS!!!!!!11111one
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  13. whahae says:

    The South used the same strategy with blacks. Seemed to work.

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    • Agree: David
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    We should try that system again, but in a more rule-of-law inflected fashion
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  14. utu says:

    So, Muslims in India try harder to police their own communities than they do in Britain or France.

    Strikingly, the Pakistani pimps and johns seem astonished that anybody would object to their behavior.

    Self policing in Warsaw 1905? The so called pimp riots (Alfonse pogrom).

    http://www.glaukopis.pl/images/artykuly-obcojezyczne/Mark-Paul-TraditionalJewishAttitudesTowardPoles_MarkPaul.pdf pp. 133-134
    “In late May 1905, Jewish workers clashed with members of the Jewish underworld, and rampaged for several days in and around brothels and other public spaces throughout Warsaw. Although accounts differ over the exact origins and course of the violence, bands of armed Jewish workers went from brothel to brothel ransacking property and assaulting both prostitutes and pimps, who controlled most of the city’s legal brothels, eliminating most of their competitors. Jewish factory workers and artisans looted and destroyed public houses and places frequented by pimps throughout Warsaw, knifing, beating, and throwing pimps and prostitutes out of windows. Forty brothels were torched, eight people were killed (including one prostitute), and more than 100 injured. According to other sources, over 100 apartments were ransacked, five people were killed in the events themselves, another ten died from wounds they incurred during the mayhem, and over forty were hospitalized. ”

    “According to one version, the brothel keepers and prostitutes were perceived to be agents of the Russian police, who were attempting to undermine the Jewish trade union movement. Indeed, the Bund portrayed the Alfonse pogrom “as part of government designs to discredit the revolution. … the regime was cast in the role of the mastermind and director of the affair.” Even though Bund supporters were among the pogromists, the Bund “placed the blame for the developments on the tsarist regime and its reactionary allies, the Black Hundreds, local thieves and ‘the wild youth.’”

    And here is modern academic take on the events.

    https://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=29040093
    JEWS AS THE AVANT-GARDE OF ANTI-PROSTITUTION DISTURBANCES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY
    The present article presents the wave of anti-prostitution disturbances which unfolded in several cities of the Russian Empire and Argentina. Due to the raise of anti-Semitism, repeating accusations against Jews of being white-slave dealers, and personal contacts with the duped women, Jews became the main agents in the anti-prostitution movement. The aim of the present work is to establish why the violent actions against procurers and traffickers of women took place solely in the Russian Empire and Argentina between the years 1905 and 1908. The author assumes that there were couple factors that contributed to the outburst of violence against the Jewish underworld in Warsaw, Łódź, and Buenos Aires. Among the factors were: the concentration of Jewish working class in those urban centers, significant influence of socialist ideology on the participants of the clashes, and the latency of the authorities which supported the traffickers instead of limiting their criminal activities.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Is it bad I approve of killing pimps?
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  15. Joe H says:

    Here is a post from VFR in 2005 where a commenter from India says essentially the same thing: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/003862.html

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  16. Vinay says:

    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    In which universe is this LESS effective than sporadic mob violence and unsolved terrorism cases? India would gladly trade the FBI, the CIA and the Pentagon for a vengeful mob.

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    • Replies: @Pericles

    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

     

    The muslims are colonizing us, not the other way around. Net, it looks like they're winning the war.

    And, as I have mentioned here once or twice, the populations of countries like Iraq and Afghanistan have boomed (lol) since 2001. Doesn't seem like that fire is doing much damage.
    , @rec1man
    The US methodology is more effective vs the external muslim

    The Indian methodology is more effective against the internal muslim

    If USA had done a 2002 - Gujurat type reprisal against internal muslims, after 9-11, there would be no more Jihad inside the USA, instead we have periodic truck bombs, vehicular jihad etc
    , @Anonym
    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    These Muslims were so effective they managed to infiltrate and destroy WTC7 even though it housed a CIA office and wasn't hit by any planes. Which happened under the watch of the son of this CIA guy who unlike any other adult, can't remember where he was when JFK was shot. Inspires a lot of confidence!

    https://youtu.be/ft3eGWZd7LE

    Then you get Fort Hood and the Pulse Nightclub happening anyway, along with the creation of ISIS and millions of Muslims migrating everywhere, raping young white women and children. Oh, and the expenditure of trillions of USD on a footgun, while China eclipses the US GDP and starts militarizing islands in the vicinity.

    I like the India model much better. And after the media arcs up, the next time let the mob go through offices of the media.

    But even better than the India model, I prefer the Israel and Japan model of not letting non-nationals immigrate in the first place.
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  17. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Matters in Britain are complicated by the Labour Party using Britain’s huge Muslim population as a vote farm. Indeed, in the near future this vote farm will be prove crucial to Labour Party political hegemony.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    Hardly any different than how Democrats use blacks in the US as a vote farm--and import Hispanics to supplement it. Tony Blair/Gordon Brown did it overtly. Obama did nothing to impede the Hispanic invasion underway.
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  18. @Yak-15
    In India, Muslims are also equally as wretchedly poor as everyone else. In western nations, the poverty of most Islamic people breeds murderous resentment. I believe this can also explain why blacks ar eparticukatly violent in the new world (even more so than Africa).

    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many…yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rod1963
    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn't they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha's? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don't want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.
    , @Altai
    That's only partly true for places like Britain, Belgium, France and Germany. The bulk, essentially all after the 70s have come in without being overly tied to any industry or place.

    The same process occurs in countries and places where that dynamic did not take place at all.

    , @Yak-15
    Agreed. Their only upside is depressing wages of employees for the large holders of capital - the extremely wealthy.

    The rest of us deal with the negative externalities. The rest of us watch our inheritance dwindle.
    , @vx37
    brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles)

    Don't know for sure, but I doubt it. I'm guessing that the majority came in long after those industries were defunct. Most have probably come in since the '90s, not for economic reasons but because of the media-enforced religious fanaticism that has seized our leaders. Essentially white-hating racism. There was no practical or economic reason for Merkel to bring in a million invaders, she was virtue signalling to her peers and coreligionists with a vast act of charity. Unfortunately what she is giving away doesn't belong to her, but that too is a virtue in this new religion.

    Islam and Christianity are proxies for race in the modern leftist dominated society. You never see lefties attacking non-white Christian churches, and the only value that Islam has for the left is that they are are overwhelmingly not white and are destructive to the white societies they are being imported into. The crimes they commit against the natives are more racial hate crimes than religious ones. The left will support even Islam because they don't really care what comes after, they just want you dead.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Muslims in the USA may earn above-average salaries / wages, I’ll be interested to check ... but they also have more children on average than white Americans, at least three kids as opposed to just under two kids.

    Just one additional child in government school (“public” school) for one year costs fed and state/local taxpayers at least TEN grand per kid in California, $12 k in New Jersey, and TWENTY grand per kid in New York, three populous States where a disproportionate share of US Muslims live.

    One must offset the hefty property taxes that people in those States pay, of course, especially New Jersey.

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  19. @PiltdownMan
    The "Cool it! You'll get us into trouble" minority social dynamic.

    As an aside, I note that the paper, like a lot of papers in sociology and political science these days, is grotesquely math-y in parts. Check out page 68, for instance.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54aa3aa4e4b03d35acd2f769/t/59f7caef6c319421a02b6f28/1509411569318/Job+Market+Paper+-+Mob+Violence+and+Militancy.pdf

    The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy, these days. Quantitative and analytic political science types lord it over more verbal types.

    If it’s anything like the situation in economics, not one person on the planet will ever check his math for errors. Because, as everyone tacitly understands, it’s just window dressing.

    Read More
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  20. eah says:
    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    With Thanksgiving covered, here's a Christmas Holiday shopping tip:

    link

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPW0qiyW4AAk0GQ.jpg
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  21. Heros says:

    Jews were kept mostly peaceful across Europe for decades by the threat of Pogroms. These also served the purpose of preventing numerous blood sacrifices and served to limit the amount of projection and manipulation of gentiles.

    When Jews are allowed to extract wealth by any means they deem the gentiles deserving of, then their inherent scorn always leads to massive projection of their sins onto the “cattle”. This projection is stunning in its degree, but also in the glee with which jews use it as a bludgeon on their victims.

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  22. @Yak-15
    In India, Muslims are also equally as wretchedly poor as everyone else. In western nations, the poverty of most Islamic people breeds murderous resentment. I believe this can also explain why blacks ar eparticukatly violent in the new world (even more so than Africa).

    It seems to me the areas with the most cantankerous Muslims, Delhi and Western Uttar Pradesh and Hyderabad down south are the places with the most connections to high Urdu culture as patronized by the Mughal empire and other wealthy Muslim lords. Deoband in western UP is the center of an influential 19th century Sunni revivalist movement which is the intellectual source of the Taliban.

    Where I’m from the Muslims are mostly the descendents of Hindu converts and quite poor as you mention. They never get any further than passive-agressive acts like cheering for Pakistan in test cricket matches

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  23. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    In China in the provincial capital of Xinjiang in 2009 although Uighurs (a mostly Caucasian looking Muslim group) are only 10% of the city they went on a spree killing that resulted in over 100+ Han and Hui (the 90-something percent majority people are Han and Hui are Muslim versions of Han) deaths on the streets. It was due to police administration being both weak and reliable enough. It was too weak to prevent the congregation of Uighurs that turned into the rampage mob (there was a Normandie and Florence catalyst where the police backed off as the mob congregated) but is considered reliable enough in keeping the order to prevent mass retaliatory attacks–which turned out to be true.

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  24. G Pinfold says:
    @PiltdownMan
    The "Cool it! You'll get us into trouble" minority social dynamic.

    As an aside, I note that the paper, like a lot of papers in sociology and political science these days, is grotesquely math-y in parts. Check out page 68, for instance.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54aa3aa4e4b03d35acd2f769/t/59f7caef6c319421a02b6f28/1509411569318/Job+Market+Paper+-+Mob+Violence+and+Militancy.pdf

    The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy, these days. Quantitative and analytic political science types lord it over more verbal types.

    The dynamic you’re talking about is all important. A certain Moldbug wrote of how Cromer kept a lid on Egypt (of all crazy places) for decades, such that no one would even imagine it was a hotbed of revolutionary activism, etc.
    South Africa in the 1970s was similar. Law and order was phenomenal, underpinned by the kind of mild terror that said ‘no good will come of being a hothead.’ All of the underlying trouble was in foment, yet it never manifested.
    Ultimately, the whites lost their resolve and the blacks seized the terror; started burning people to death in the streets for insufficient revolutionary zeal. And the rest is History.
    Back to the topic: There is nothing inevitable about History. The Boers were strong for a while but lost their mojo, and they were thoroughly white-anted too by liberal and communist whites. Someone else could in theory do better.

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    • Replies: @RonaldB
    "Ultimately, the whites lost their resolve and the blacks seized the terror;"

    Consider the possibility that the whites were victims of their own success. By creating a society with easy welfare and hospitable living circumstances, the white population gradually lost its genetic edge and deteriorated to the point they were unwilling to fight for their own dominance.

    The description of mechanisms for such a deterioration can be found in books such as https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Famine-geniuses-theyre-rescue-ebook/dp/B01AYE5JVQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511452322&sr=8-1&keywords=genius+famine

    The same mechanisms might account for the willingness of whites in Sweden, France, Britain, Canada and others to passively support the mainstream government importing millions of unassimilatable savages.
    , @Bill Jones
    Rhodesia might be ripe for recolonization.
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  25. Rod1963 says:

    In WWII the Nazis in North Africa had no problem with using Muslim workers. Whereas the British and Americans had to resort to using Italian POW’s because the Arabs would steal them blind and not work.

    So what was the Nazi secret sauce so to speak? If the Arabs stepped out of line they were killed on the spot.

    You ask Muslims what they respect and it’s force. They respect the strong man who willing to kick serious ass. Their whole society is based around the use of force or the threat there of. It’s built right into the religion. Where a multitude of transgressions is punished by death. The Golden Rule does not exist in Islam.

    And of course the Paki groomers would see the lack of violent response by the locals as a green light to further depredations.

    Had that happened in 1940′s England the locals would have killed the Pakis on the spot. The same here in the U.S. probably up to 1960′s. It should be the response today. But it isn’t. Whites have no fight left in them.

    Rotherdam could easily happen here and probably will as the Muslim population grows and you’d see the same sort of white passivity with few exceptions usually among the less educated rural folk who still have some idea about right and wrong.

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  26. Rod1963 says:
    @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many...yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.

    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn’t they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha’s? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don’t want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    Read More
    • Agree: bomag, TTSSYF
    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    "When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman."

    I like that!

    It's like with ants or wasps. Just hose down their nest with water or insecticide. They run around bewildered and decamp for friendlier environs. No need to kill them one by one. Just destroy their nest. Excellent!

    The mental image of muzzles wailing in despair as their Mosque is pulverized to dust fills me with joy and hope.
    , @KenH

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.
     
    That's exactly right. And mostly because whites believe that showing tolerance and kindness Muslims will transform them into law abiding Westerners. But most Muslims see this only as weakness and foolishness and it only emboldens them further as we're seeing throughout Europe.
    , @TTSSYF
    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It's sold to us by the media as just another one of the world's great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism, when in fact it is a religio-political system that is at odds with Western enlightenment in almost every regard. We believe in freedom of thought and speech. Muslims believe in a robotic existence where one must interrupt one's day with bending down and scraping one's head in a most undignified and ugly way to pray five times a day, intersperse conversation with constant references to Allah (PBUH) or Mohammed (PBUH), and sleep with one's head facing Mecca. Anything else is "haram". Muslims do not believe in photography, statuary, or any other kind of representational art, as that is "haram". Muslims are cruel to animals, particularly dogs, which they believe to be dirty and disgusting. Muslims do not believe that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow (what we refer to as "interest") and consider it usury. Muslims do not believe in equality of the sexes, as a Muslim man can have multiple wives as long as he "treats them fairly". Women, on the other hand, are considered inherently sinful because their exposed beauty and emotionalism lures otherwise good Muslim men into sin; hence, they must be covered. Muslim men simply cannot accept women's sexuality, even going so far as genital mutilation to try to squelch it.

    Muslims do not belong in the West, even the ones that appear to be pleasant and peaceful. It is oil and water and will lead to nothing good. I have known too many who, while they were high achievers (medical doctors, engineers, research scientists), smart, and had very witty or entertaining personalities, would on occasion allow the mask to slip and reveal intense, burning hatred for the West and Americans. These same people would relate how, when in their native country in the Middle East, the people cheered and passed out candy when the Challenger exploded, and how they would love to be able to assassinate GHWB.

    We can tolerate them in very small numbers, but should that percentage rise to some critical number (10%?), I believe we will see a very different type of collective behavior here in the U.S.

    , @Dave
    The interesting, and rather depressing, point to your conclusion is that until about 2 generations ago, white people did not lack the resolve to deal with miscreants and interlopers... with extreme ruthlessness.
    Something happened after WWII. Western elites lost their resolve, and then started demanding that all white people lose ours. It took awhile, with a lot of emotional and psychological manipulation directed by media and academia towards western populations.
    But it worked, and today we have western peoples, the majority of whom believe that the greatest possible sin is to be seen as "racist". Most western whites would rather die, or be killed, than be seen as bigoted in any way, shape or form.
    , @Frau Katze
    I was only saying that things in the US could get worse... I should have said, will get worse,

    I completely agree that they make terrible immigrants. I know all about the immigration jihad. And that professionals aren’t immune to Sudden Jihad Syndrome.

    In places like the UK and Sweden, they effectively colonized the areas that they’re living in.

    Sadly, I don’t think it’s realistic to think any Western country can get rid of them now. Trump can’t even get a partial ban on more coming to the US.

    And they wouldn’t go without a fight. And Muslims fight dirty.
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  27. Anon says: • Disclaimer
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  28. anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    OT: Cool website from another underemployed Harvard Ph.D. (2007, Sociology)

    Seems like a nice enough kid. Another rube who bought into the higher ed scam. Sad.

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  29. jim jones says:

    Britain moved all the Muslims into Pakistan and made India a viable nation

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Never touched 'em guv.
    Jinnah browbeat the Raj into creating that Muslim heaven-on-earth Pakistan, 'land of the pure', even though Whitehall regarded it as a thoroughly dangerous and reckless expedient.

    Typical Hindu blame-shifting. The Muslims self-deported rather than be hacked to pieces by their fellow Desis from Ghandi's mob, who wanted the whole lot for themselves.
    I wish to God we'd ignored them all, concentrated on fending off the Wehrmacht, and let the Japs have them in '42. That'd larn 'em.
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  30. Shoopster says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    IOW, and contra conventional wisdom, rather than causing more terrorism, Islamophobia prevents it.

    Strongly disagree with you, Dave. Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) absolutely causes racism. Any group that feels that it’s under attack will inevitably lash out. Just look at the rise of aggressive white identity politics in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    Spencer's get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.

    The Left is openly bragging about exterminating white people and the far right is weaker in the West then any time in human history. The only thing different now is the internet.

    Yes, I know you don't believe me. Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage. The Poz does not reverse. It continues until civilization collapses and we are forced to eat each other to survive because no one knows how to run the Haber Process to produce fertilizer in industrial quantities.
    , @Louis Renault

    identity politics in the US
     
    Good idently politics: Black Lives Matter! Viva La Raza!
    Whites, why those racists, what did they ever do for America.
    , @Forbes
    Actual evidence of Islamophobia is rather thin on the ground.

    Where are the reprisal killings? Where are the boycotts? Where is the public shaming? For that matter, where is the irrational fear of Islam?

    Re-define it as "anti-Muslim sentiment," if you want--but that's a con. In reality, it's an explanation for Muslim violence excused on the rationalization that they feel under attack.

    Nice try.

    Where's Tiny Dick...

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  31. NickG says:

    This strong backlash against Muslim collective pugnaciousness is being repeated in Myanmar/ Burma with their Bengali/ Rohingya Muslims in the Western Arakan/ Rakhine state. The press just rarely cover the frontlash that is causing this indigenous Burmese collective backlash.

    This can be seen as a collective immune response to a social pathogen. Western European societies do not seem to have an effective collective functioning immune system against inbreeding, in group prefrence, pugnacious Muslim interlopers.

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    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    I think it is because we assume we can reason with them...that they will be persuaded by our good will, fair play, and logical arguments. It's the same sort of phenomenon you see with bleeding heart Leftists (e.g., Norman Mailer) who think they can reform a cold-blooded murderer (Jack Henry Abbott) by earnest conversation.
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  32. Shoopster says:

    The author of this piece presents a faulty argument and seems to be trying to justify collective violence in retaliation for acts of terror. This is a ludicrous notion and it’s worth noting that Hindus in India are slowly becoming more and more fanatic, to the point where they’ve burned down Christian and Muslim schools over allegations of beef having been served.

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

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    • Replies: @Lurker

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.
     
    Deadly for whom?
    , @rogue-one
    "If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot."

    I think that's precisely the point. Because the cost of conflict is massive & the response from other side is deadly, each side is forced to self police to avoid conflicts.

    Perhaps the memory of the possible race riots of 2010 would force future Pakistani community (and home owners) to self police their neighborhoods and sons.
    , @Louis Renault

    I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites?
     
    Remind me again what Teresa Sullivan did at UVA after the Rolling Stone Rape article? Collective punishment is a prefered technique in all our institutes of higher indoctrination.
    , @Forbes

    Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white *rudeness* being exposed?

     

    FIFY.
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  33. Karl says:

    seminar topic is: “but is it good for the Muslims?”

    bagels and lox will be served.

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  34. I have asked – where are the angry mobs, riots and lynchings in Britian? in response to the rape of white girls, terrorist attacks and immigrant crime.
    The answer is that we have pacified ourselves with a veneer of civilised behaviour and laws, to such a degree that it is self-destructive and has rendered us defenceless.
    Not one English father has gone round and killed the abuser of his daughter.
    We have allowed the Muslims to do what Muslims do and to treat us as inferior beings that can be used, discarded and killed. To them the exploitation and abuse of non-Muslims is allowed and morally justifiable. They see us as deserving abuse.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    A few years ago, the blacks burned down and plundered London because one of their criminals might have been mistreated. On the other hand, we have sent far more strongly worded letters to the editor. Far more.
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  35. @Dave Pinsen
    IOW, and contra conventional wisdom, rather than causing more terrorism, Islamophobia prevents it.

    Like citizens of the past Soviet Union, today we can easily learning the truth on any given subject just by finding what the conventional wisdom is and then learning the opposite.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    I was thinking along the same lines the other day regarding the Catalan situation. The MSM are selling a broadly positive pro-Catalan message. Thus I assume that Catalan independence is probably a bad idea, even though I know little about the facts on the ground.
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  36. Thomas says:

    I once casually dated a Sikh girl in ye olde East Bay of my younger years, which went well enough, until she didn’t need me for co-studying for a particular entrance exam anymore. Regardless, she was quite unsparing in some of the perspectives her family had earned the hard way regarding Muslims back in India, which were quite piquant and interesting to my then-virgin goodwhite ears.

    Regardless, most non-Muslim Indians I’ve met tend to be very aware of the central position of their home country astride the Islamic Crescent from Arabia towards the Straits of Malacca, if you press them on that point and get them at least a little drunk. The Subcontinent has managed to survive, and thrive, as one little corner of religious pluralism and even evangelism (home of the Dharmic religions, including Buddhism) by being somewhat safely nestled between the Indian Ocean and the Himalayas, and difficult to settle in a way that sweeps away the pre-existing natives, among other factors, I’m sure.

    I do have to point out though that as Islam moved farther east, it did have to nativize at least a little. Past the Straits, Islam is less a religion and more an ethnic marker (that you aren’t Chinese, as much as anything).

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  37. In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.

    Muslims and other sacred minorities are an early-warning system for Those Who Must Not Be Named. If the white British can be intimidated into tolerating bad behaviour from minorities, that helps TWMNBN feel safer. So the rule is that minorities are only ever victims, never victimizers. The Labour councils in Rotherham and Rochdale that ignored mass rape of working-class girls by Muslims are parallelled by the Labour council in London that ignored mass rape by homosexuals and ethnics:

    A blind eye to child abuse: Whistleblowers warned Labour leadership favourite Jeremy Corbyn of paedophiles preying on children on his doorstep – but claim he did NOTHING

    • Social workers warned Corbyn that child abuse was rife in his Islington constituency in 1992
    • ‘We’d been seeing so many 12 to 15-year-olds who were being sexually exploited, we could hardly believe it,’ Liz Davies, one of the five social workers, recalled this week
    • Corbyn never wrote to Davies, or telephoned, to acknowledge their meeting, or thank her for seeking to blow the whistle

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181783/Did-Jeremy-Corbyn-try-protect-fellow-Left-wingers-implicated-paedophile-scandal.html

    Islington council was headed by Margaret Hodge, née Oppenheimer, who ignored child abuse on a grand scale in Islington before being appointed Minister for Children by Tony Blair in 2003. Muslims and gays are part of the coalition of the fringes, therefore their bad behaviour is ignored as long as possible. The Stephen Lawrence Cult, overseen by Dr Richard Stone, late of the Jewish Council for Racial Equality, is another part of the strategy.

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye

    Margaret Hodge ... ignored child abuse on a grand scale in Islington before being appointed Minister for Children by Tony Blair in 2003.
     
    When the dust settles in 20 - 30 years, we will find that Hodge acted as procuress of girls and boys to other politicians, and that she continued to facilitate child sex abuse as Minister for Children.

    Anthony "Tony" Blair has long been rumored to be gay. Would it be surprising if he were found to have been a practicing ephebophile all along?

    Would it surprise anyone to learn that the Guardian and the Independent had over years hushed up any stories that would reflect negatively on their tinpot messias of the Frankfurt School of Universal Nirvana?

    , @Pericles
    Curiously enough, Margaret Hodge is denoted by Wikipedia as not just of German-Jewish and Austrian-Jewish descent, but also as an Egyptian Jew (the place of her birth, it seems). She gets around.
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  38. Altai says:
    @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many...yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.

    That’s only partly true for places like Britain, Belgium, France and Germany. The bulk, essentially all after the 70s have come in without being overly tied to any industry or place.

    The same process occurs in countries and places where that dynamic did not take place at all.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. An already bad situation was made worse by letting in even more Muslims.

    And Sweden, who sat out WW II, didn’t need post-war help.

    But they showed how idiotic they were by recently deciding to accept any Syrian who showed up, no background checking. And boat people...
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  39. @Shoopster
    Strongly disagree with you, Dave. Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) absolutely causes racism. Any group that feels that it's under attack will inevitably lash out. Just look at the rise of aggressive white identity politics in the US.

    Spencer’s get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.

    The Left is openly bragging about exterminating white people and the far right is weaker in the West then any time in human history. The only thing different now is the internet.

    Yes, I know you don’t believe me. Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage. The Poz does not reverse. It continues until civilization collapses and we are forced to eat each other to survive because no one knows how to run the Haber Process to produce fertilizer in industrial quantities.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    What on earth are you talking about? Approving of interracial marriage doesn't mean you have to approve of your group becoming second-class citizens. Many, and probably most, whites are anti-racist in the literal, non-Orwellian sense. Interracial marriage per se doesn't bother them (even if it's not something they personally would engage in) and they object to anti-white policies and rhetoric. Obviously, they don't object strongly enough to make much of a political difference, but at least on paper they are anti-anti-white. In my experience, most whites find Richard Spencer types equally as repugnant as they find the anti-white left.

    And even most of the most vehemently anti-white SJWs and Professional POC do not object to interracial marriage, at least openly, although certainly one could find individual examples to the contrary.

    , @Anon

    Spencer’s get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.
     
    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he's a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.

    Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage.
     
    Meanwhile there's little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).
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  40. Svigor says:

    I instead posit a novel theoretical framework that highlights a key factor determining the extent of militant mobilization within aggrieved minority groups: the group’s perception of protection. Using this framework, I argue that minority Indian Muslims police themselves to prevent militancy within their community because they fear retaliatory indiscriminate mob violence, and this fear stems from a lack of confidence in the state to definitively protect Muslims from the mob.

    Yeah, real novel. I’ve been saying it here for like 15 years (though mostly vis-a-vis other groups). Many human groups, particularly those with south Asian, southwest Asian, or African ancestry, are either at your feet or at your throat. We currently have the luxury of deciding which.

    Reminds me of how Iranian Jews don’t get up to much subversion or kulturkampf, at least, not in Iran.

    Nice, soft legal regimes are fine for Euro-Euro interactions. Chivalry is fine when it’s reciprocated. Neither is for dealing with the likes people with SW Asian ancestry.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    The experience of Sweden, I would say, is that sending hardened criminal migrants to soft cozy prisons, possibly more luxurious than the place where they grew up, in order to play Xbox for a couple of years, is not quite the deterrent we expected.
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  41. Lurker says:
    @Almost Missouri
    Like citizens of the past Soviet Union, today we can easily learning the truth on any given subject just by finding what the conventional wisdom is and then learning the opposite.

    I was thinking along the same lines the other day regarding the Catalan situation. The MSM are selling a broadly positive pro-Catalan message. Thus I assume that Catalan independence is probably a bad idea, even though I know little about the facts on the ground.

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  42. Lurker says:
    @Shoopster
    The author of this piece presents a faulty argument and seems to be trying to justify collective violence in retaliation for acts of terror. This is a ludicrous notion and it's worth noting that Hindus in India are slowly becoming more and more fanatic, to the point where they've burned down Christian and Muslim schools over allegations of beef having been served.

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    Deadly for whom?

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  43. Svigor says:

    The author of this piece presents a faulty argument and seems to be trying to justify collective violence in retaliation for acts of terror. This is a ludicrous notion and it’s worth noting that Hindus in India are slowly becoming more and more fanatic, to the point where they’ve burned down Christian and Muslim schools over allegations of beef having been served.

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    The argument is sound. Justify, schmustify. It works. That’s the justification. It’s obvious that it works, when you think about it, and the nature of S/SW Asian and African populations.

    Indian Braves, Muslim Jihadis, both knew they would achieve glory in their tribes, and that their memory will be praised, not cursed, by their own people, after they were dead.

    This is reversed when their tribe spits on their names for getting a bunch of them killed.

    Sometimes deadly race riots are what’s called for.

    Yeah, let’s all sit here and whine about collective punishment. War is collective punishment, writ large.

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

    And who will be “retaliating”? The victims are at least as white as the perps.

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  44. rogue-one says:
    @Shoopster
    The author of this piece presents a faulty argument and seems to be trying to justify collective violence in retaliation for acts of terror. This is a ludicrous notion and it's worth noting that Hindus in India are slowly becoming more and more fanatic, to the point where they've burned down Christian and Muslim schools over allegations of beef having been served.

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

    “If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.”

    I think that’s precisely the point. Because the cost of conflict is massive & the response from other side is deadly, each side is forced to self police to avoid conflicts.

    Perhaps the memory of the possible race riots of 2010 would force future Pakistani community (and home owners) to self police their neighborhoods and sons.

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  45. Svigor says:

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

    What’s funny is the west is filled to the gills with whites engaged in collective punishment of whites.

    The kicker is, there was no crime to avenge.

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  46. Svigor says:

    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    In which universe is this LESS effective than sporadic mob violence and unsolved terrorism cases? India would gladly trade the FBI, the CIA and the Pentagon for a vengeful mob.

    A sustained campaign of riots and lynchings would nip Muslim kiddie-rapist gangs in UK right in the bud.

    Of course, deporting all the non-European foreigners would be even better.

    Strongly disagree with you, Dave. Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) absolutely causes racism. Any group that feels that it’s under attack will inevitably lash out. Just look at the rise of aggressive white identity politics in the US.

    The root of it all is the left’s (inter alia) psychopathic mania for diversity and open borders (for YT).

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  47. Svigor says:

    The thing about collective violence of the sort described is that it’s grass-roots. The problematic group in question know it’s grass-roots, and that it isn’t going to go away when a new administration takes over, or some politician gets bribed. They know it’s not going away any time soon; it’s a cultural value, a fact on the ground and the street. “You know the crackers are gonna burn all our families’ houses down for this, right?” It’s so much more immediate a concern than the legal system. Immediacy is important for people with short time horizons.

    Don’t wag your finger at me – the left knew they were importing all of this. They knew they were destroying Nice White Norms.

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    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    This is a really important point. Civil society has failed white people. We need to bring back tribal forms of social organization. We can't rely on governments, Christian churches, police or militaries to protect us. All of those institutions have failed 100%.
    , @Anonymous

    “You know the crackers are gonna burn all our families’ houses down for this, right?”
     
    That's what used to keep the blacks honest before 1965; not necessarily Johnny law.
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  48. rogue-one says:

    I think the difference between Indian response and the British response is on basis of self-organization of the natives (as pointed out by Sailer in his article).

    In India, RSS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh) is a hindu organization with over 5-6 million members and more than 50,000 chapters. They are very closely affiliated with major political party BJP that prevents the state from going after it. In places with low penetration of RSS, such as Kashmir and now West Bengal, the muslims do not face the same threat of massive retaliation as in places with RSS penetration and they do act with impunity.

    The riots in Gujarat in 2002 started when a group of young muslim men burned a train with many hindus including RSS cadets. BJP (& Narendra Modi) was in power in Gujarat state. RSS got a few days of free rein to retaliate.

    The left in India hasn’t forgiven RSS and BJP for their actions. If not for massive political power of BJP party, RSS would have been finished by now.

    This sort of organization is not possible in the UK or in US. The agencies (FBI, Department of Justice, etc.) would go after an American organization similar to RSS. No major political party would align with them to shield them from the State. The media would go hysterical.

    In absence of any sort of organization for natives and delegitimization of efforts to build such an organization, I don’t see how “submission” can be prevented.

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  49. sb says:

    Interesting how there is a strong British tradition of keeping uppity Catholics in their place ( which some would say still exists or at least did till recently -eg Northern Ireland where the UK military would employ lethal force on unarmed demonstrators in quite recent times ) and yet no Muslim outrage brings a call from the British state for anything stronger than education .

    Hindu and Buddhist societies see Islam for what it is . The Enemy .

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  50. bomag says:
    @Anonymous
    So think how steeped in irony are the tears of the "British" Muslim bigwigs out there frontlashing against the natives' retributive attacks that barely register if they even materialize at all (bacon sandwiches on mosque doorsteps anyone?) -- all before the bodies are cold after their latest terrorist atrocity.

    how steeped in irony are the tears of…

    That’s the thing; they quickly seize on the tactic of shameless media advocacy for their side while the other side talks about fairness.

    Their skill set is in exploiting social weakness.

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  51. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    If you consider the hindoo "religion," it is arguably the most batshit crazy one out there. What do you think following such a faith, especially taking that to a fundamentalist level, does to a human mind? Think about that.

    I mean, come on;

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BTDJ-gkD2HC/?hl=en

    Anyway, so this fellow is advocating that other nations with significant and marginalised Muslims should also adopt similar state sponsored terror tactics?

    You mean, like the west is not already doing that, internally and externally? What do you think is happening in the ME?

    I laugh at the likes of him. The entire Christian\Polytheist world is sitting on top a spiritual time bomb, and you wish to show Muslims their place in your societies, and the world at large?

    If you spiritual losers have the balls, take a day or two and peruse every corner of this website;

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/m01_religion.htm

    You can cow us down, but at least we have True Monotheism. What you have is a one way ticket to Hell.

    The Muslim government in Dubai looked the other way when that devotee of the Bhagavad Gita, Chrissie Hynde, called the audience ‘cunts’ and told them to ‘stick their phones up their ass’ because some were using cell fones.

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  52. AndrewR says:

    I honestly didn’t realize India had any Muslim communities. I figured any Muslims in India would be atomized expats. What was the point of the partition if they didn’t expel all the Muslim communities?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I honestly didn’t realize India had any Muslim communities.
     
    Such profound ignorance, particularly from someone with consistently stringent nationalist voice, is pretty sad. What other important and obvious facts do you not know?
    , @rec1man
    The scumbag Gandhi went on fasts to prevent the expulsion of muslims

    The Sikhs did not listen to Gandhi and eradicated all muslims in Indian East Punjab

    In residual India, Muslims went from 12.5% in 1941 to 10.4% by 1951, after partition migrations

    Since then they are doing demographic warfare and are now 17% by birth , in residual India,
    and Muslims are doing low level partitions ( no-go zones ) all over India
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  53. @anon
    At your throat or at your feet....

    In the west in 2017 we prefer them at our throat , preferably with scimitar in hand and wearing a backup suicide vest. Having any other preference would be racist , against the race of Islam.

    yeah kind of like when the south had no negro problem despite negroes outnumbering whites, while these days 10% blacks is enough for bedlam

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  54. Eagle Eye says:
    @Roche Rumble
    In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.

    Muslims and other sacred minorities are an early-warning system for Those Who Must Not Be Named. If the white British can be intimidated into tolerating bad behaviour from minorities, that helps TWMNBN feel safer. So the rule is that minorities are only ever victims, never victimizers. The Labour councils in Rotherham and Rochdale that ignored mass rape of working-class girls by Muslims are parallelled by the Labour council in London that ignored mass rape by homosexuals and ethnics:

    A blind eye to child abuse: Whistleblowers warned Labour leadership favourite Jeremy Corbyn of paedophiles preying on children on his doorstep - but claim he did NOTHING

    • Social workers warned Corbyn that child abuse was rife in his Islington constituency in 1992
    • ‘We'd been seeing so many 12 to 15-year-olds who were being sexually exploited, we could hardly believe it,’ Liz Davies, one of the five social workers, recalled this week
    • Corbyn never wrote to Davies, or telephoned, to acknowledge their meeting, or thank her for seeking to blow the whistle

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181783/Did-Jeremy-Corbyn-try-protect-fellow-Left-wingers-implicated-paedophile-scandal.html

     

    Islington council was headed by Margaret Hodge, née Oppenheimer, who ignored child abuse on a grand scale in Islington before being appointed Minister for Children by Tony Blair in 2003. Muslims and gays are part of the coalition of the fringes, therefore their bad behaviour is ignored as long as possible. The Stephen Lawrence Cult, overseen by Dr Richard Stone, late of the Jewish Council for Racial Equality, is another part of the strategy.

    Margaret Hodge … ignored child abuse on a grand scale in Islington before being appointed Minister for Children by Tony Blair in 2003.

    When the dust settles in 20 – 30 years, we will find that Hodge acted as procuress of girls and boys to other politicians, and that she continued to facilitate child sex abuse as Minister for Children.

    Anthony “Tony” Blair has long been rumored to be gay. Would it be surprising if he were found to have been a practicing ephebophile all along?

    Would it surprise anyone to learn that the Guardian and the Independent had over years hushed up any stories that would reflect negatively on their tinpot messias of the Frankfurt School of Universal Nirvana?

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  55. @Rod1963
    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn't they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha's? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don't want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    “When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman.”

    I like that!

    It’s like with ants or wasps. Just hose down their nest with water or insecticide. They run around bewildered and decamp for friendlier environs. No need to kill them one by one. Just destroy their nest. Excellent!

    The mental image of muzzles wailing in despair as their Mosque is pulverized to dust fills me with joy and hope.

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  56. AndrewR says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    Spencer's get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.

    The Left is openly bragging about exterminating white people and the far right is weaker in the West then any time in human history. The only thing different now is the internet.

    Yes, I know you don't believe me. Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage. The Poz does not reverse. It continues until civilization collapses and we are forced to eat each other to survive because no one knows how to run the Haber Process to produce fertilizer in industrial quantities.

    What on earth are you talking about? Approving of interracial marriage doesn’t mean you have to approve of your group becoming second-class citizens. Many, and probably most, whites are anti-racist in the literal, non-Orwellian sense. Interracial marriage per se doesn’t bother them (even if it’s not something they personally would engage in) and they object to anti-white policies and rhetoric. Obviously, they don’t object strongly enough to make much of a political difference, but at least on paper they are anti-anti-white. In my experience, most whites find Richard Spencer types equally as repugnant as they find the anti-white left.

    And even most of the most vehemently anti-white SJWs and Professional POC do not object to interracial marriage, at least openly, although certainly one could find individual examples to the contrary.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Interracial marriage per se doesn’t bother them (even if it’s not something they personally would engage in) and they object to anti-white policies and rhetoric.
     
    When America had sane racial attitudes and racial policies, the population opposed inter-racial marriage. The fact they do not oppose inter-racial marriage is evidence of a decline. They are either browbeaten, no longer care about the common welfare or are ignorant.

    You seem to be the last category. Look up the rates of divorce for white women-black man marriages to see why Americans used to oppose inter-racial marriage.

    Obviously, they don’t object strongly enough to make much of a political difference, but at least on paper they are anti-anti-white.
     
    They just support fewer and fewer policies to that end.

    And even most of the most vehemently anti-white SJWs and Professional POC do not object to interracial marriage, at least openly, although certainly one could find individual examples to the contrary.
     
    The United States has half a million Orthodox Jews who reject interreligious (aka interracial marriage).
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  57. actually the globalist UK elite are SUPPORTING the paki grooming gangs- they WANT this to happen because it terrorizes the white population. Also if white english girls convert to islam for protection (and marry non whites) then it’s ‘good’. There’s no downside for the globalist left here…

    Side note- the pakis tried this on a few sikh girls too – sikhs have no love of mulsims- the reason they don’t cut their hair is a vow to not do so until every drop of muslim blood is gone from Punjab… anyway, the Sikhs gave them a pretty thorough beating…. and since it was narrative breaking the police pretty much ignored it. Sikh girls aren’t targeted anymore.

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  58. KenH says:
    @Rod1963
    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn't they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha's? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don't want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    That’s exactly right. And mostly because whites believe that showing tolerance and kindness Muslims will transform them into law abiding Westerners. But most Muslims see this only as weakness and foolishness and it only emboldens them further as we’re seeing throughout Europe.

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  59. Bitfu says:

    Where have you gone J̶o̶e̶ ̶D̶i̶m̶a̶g̶g̶i̶o̶ General Napier? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

    General Sir Charles James Napier, GCB (10 August 1782 – 29 August 1853), was a soldier and governor of the British Empire and the British Army’s Commander-in-Chief in India, during which period he was the British imperial commander over a group of people in India known as the Sindh.
    The Sindh had a custom called “sati”. Sati was the custom of burning a widow alive on the funeral pyre of her husband. Napier opposed this custom. Napier judged that the immolation was motivated by profits for the priests, and when told of an actual Sati about to take place, he informed those involved that he would stop the sacrifice. The priests complained to him that this was a customary religious rite, and that customs of a nation should be respected. As recounted by his brother William, he replied:
    “Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.”

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  60. AndrewR says:
    @unit472
    Just finished reading an interesting feature in the Tampa newspaper on the breakdown of social order in the black community. A man a buys house across from a convenience store and the hoodrats take over his yard. Tragic but inevitable given the nature of black people.

    http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/features/house-on-the-corner/clearwater-shooting-defense-anthony-roy/

    A lot to unpack from that story. The prosecutor and the cops sound like scumbags, no doubt. No one should be charged for killing someone who had just threatened to shoot up a house in an area where the cops don’t even do their jobs at all. Mr. Roy seems like a decent albeit dumb individual who did what any self-respecting person would have done in that situation. But wow, was he stupid to move into that house knowing what his mother’s prior tenants had gone through. Negros are endlessly fascinating from an anthropological perspective. All of that happened in the USA in the last few years but it might as well have been in prehistoric Africa. They are just so unlike us.

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  61. AndrewR says:
    @Fredrik
    On the other hand the individual Muslims are much better off in the West than in their homelands. Somehow that doesn't count. It isn't surprising because at least the children born in the West will compare themselves to locals and not the cousins back home. Obviously this is another argument to keep them out.

    What cousins back home? The cousins got to come too via family reunification visas. Fortunately, the inbreeding rates are high enough that, unlike the average person of NW Euro descent, all of one’s cousin’s cousins are probably one’s own relatives, and therefore chain migration is finite. Them family trees don’t branch!

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  62. rogue-one says:

    “I instead posit a novel theoretical framework that highlights a key factor determining the extent of militant mobilization within aggrieved minority groups: the group’s perception of protection. ”

    I wonder if the same framework can explain the difference between private truths and public lies of Americans in general. For example, most Whites are unwilling to criticize blacks or muslims or any minority group because they know that they have no protection from media class or even their own fellow whites.

    If people were not afraid of being fired for their “racism” or “islamophobia” what would they say?

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  63. AndrewR says:
    @ChrisD
    A while ago I listened to an old broadcast from 1997 of the KQED Public Radio’s Forum program with Michael Kransy in San Francisco interviewing American old school leftist philosopher Richard Rorty. At one point Kransy asks Rorty why he thinks the Muslims in Pakistan are so much more militant than the ones in neighbouring India. Rorty begins with a convoluted explanation of Partition and that the Muslims come from the same area basically so it’s not about the ethnic differences, then he concludes: “Every time the Muslims in India wanna get militant they get killed” and Kransky seems to be non plussed and reluctantly agrees. It is absolutely true however, that leaders like Modi have, in the past, massacred Muslim minorities in order to supress jihadi tendencies or domestic terrorism. That has produced a country with a large Muslim population, yet who are mostly peaceful and afraid to become violent or terrorise the Indian populace. It’s difficult to argue that this current situation is “bad” in any way, shape or form.

    From a utilitarian standpoint, it’s indeed very hard if not impossible to say that the status quo in India is worse than having a militant Muslim population. But most people in developed countries would probably say that punishing an entire group for the actions of only a portion of its members is the Worst Thing Ever because NAZIS!!!!!!11111one

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  64. AndrewR says:
    @utu
    So, Muslims in India try harder to police their own communities than they do in Britain or France.

    Strikingly, the Pakistani pimps and johns seem astonished that anybody would object to their behavior.


    Self policing in Warsaw 1905? The so called pimp riots (Alfonse pogrom).

    http://www.glaukopis.pl/images/artykuly-obcojezyczne/Mark-Paul-TraditionalJewishAttitudesTowardPoles_MarkPaul.pdf pp. 133-134
    "In late May 1905, Jewish workers clashed with members of the Jewish underworld, and rampaged for several days in and around brothels and other public spaces throughout Warsaw. Although accounts differ over the exact origins and course of the violence, bands of armed Jewish workers went from brothel to brothel ransacking property and assaulting both prostitutes and pimps, who controlled most of the city’s legal brothels, eliminating most of their competitors. Jewish factory workers and artisans looted and destroyed public houses and places frequented by pimps throughout Warsaw, knifing, beating, and throwing pimps and prostitutes out of windows. Forty brothels were torched, eight people were killed (including one prostitute), and more than 100 injured. According to other sources, over 100 apartments were ransacked, five people were killed in the events themselves, another ten died from wounds they incurred during the mayhem, and over forty were hospitalized. "

    "According to one version, the brothel keepers and prostitutes were perceived to be agents of the Russian police, who were attempting to undermine the Jewish trade union movement. Indeed, the Bund portrayed the Alfonse pogrom “as part of government designs to discredit the revolution. ... the regime was cast in the role of the mastermind and director of the affair.” Even though Bund supporters were among the pogromists, the Bund “placed the blame for the developments on the tsarist regime and its reactionary allies, the Black Hundreds, local thieves and ‘the wild youth.’”

    And here is modern academic take on the events.

    https://elibrary.ru/item.asp?id=29040093
    JEWS AS THE AVANT-GARDE OF ANTI-PROSTITUTION DISTURBANCES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY
    The present article presents the wave of anti-prostitution disturbances which unfolded in several cities of the Russian Empire and Argentina. Due to the raise of anti-Semitism, repeating accusations against Jews of being white-slave dealers, and personal contacts with the duped women, Jews became the main agents in the anti-prostitution movement. The aim of the present work is to establish why the violent actions against procurers and traffickers of women took place solely in the Russian Empire and Argentina between the years 1905 and 1908. The author assumes that there were couple factors that contributed to the outburst of violence against the Jewish underworld in Warsaw, Łódź, and Buenos Aires. Among the factors were: the concentration of Jewish working class in those urban centers, significant influence of socialist ideology on the participants of the clashes, and the latency of the authorities which supported the traffickers instead of limiting their criminal activities.

     

    Is it bad I approve of killing pimps?

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  65. Arclight says:

    Not arguing for mob violence, but anecdotally this thesis lines up with my impression that Hindus in India make no bones about how they feel about Islam and the Muslims there know it and it does keep them in line.

    On an evening out with an Indian acquaintance and after several drinks the topic of Islam came up. My companion had nothing good to say about Muslims and basically stated that the only way to keep them from turning violent was to remind them that if they got frisky the consequences would be immediate and severe. He noted that Indians had been dealing with Islam for a lot longer than America and had learned not to trust any promises of ‘moderation’ – if they were allowed to run things it went medieval pretty quickly.

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  66. Pericles says:
    @Vinay
    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    In which universe is this LESS effective than sporadic mob violence and unsolved terrorism cases? India would gladly trade the FBI, the CIA and the Pentagon for a vengeful mob.

    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    The muslims are colonizing us, not the other way around. Net, it looks like they’re winning the war.

    And, as I have mentioned here once or twice, the populations of countries like Iraq and Afghanistan have boomed (lol) since 2001. Doesn’t seem like that fire is doing much damage.

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  67. @Shoopster
    Strongly disagree with you, Dave. Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) absolutely causes racism. Any group that feels that it's under attack will inevitably lash out. Just look at the rise of aggressive white identity politics in the US.

    identity politics in the US

    Good idently politics: Black Lives Matter! Viva La Raza!
    Whites, why those racists, what did they ever do for America.

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  68. Pericles says:
    @Philip Smeeton
    I have asked - where are the angry mobs, riots and lynchings in Britian? in response to the rape of white girls, terrorist attacks and immigrant crime.
    The answer is that we have pacified ourselves with a veneer of civilised behaviour and laws, to such a degree that it is self-destructive and has rendered us defenceless.
    Not one English father has gone round and killed the abuser of his daughter.
    We have allowed the Muslims to do what Muslims do and to treat us as inferior beings that can be used, discarded and killed. To them the exploitation and abuse of non-Muslims is allowed and morally justifiable. They see us as deserving abuse.

    A few years ago, the blacks burned down and plundered London because one of their criminals might have been mistreated. On the other hand, we have sent far more strongly worded letters to the editor. Far more.

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  69. @Shoopster
    The author of this piece presents a faulty argument and seems to be trying to justify collective violence in retaliation for acts of terror. This is a ludicrous notion and it's worth noting that Hindus in India are slowly becoming more and more fanatic, to the point where they've burned down Christian and Muslim schools over allegations of beef having been served.

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

    I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites?

    Remind me again what Teresa Sullivan did at UVA after the Rolling Stone Rape article? Collective punishment is a prefered technique in all our institutes of higher indoctrination.

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  70. Pericles says:
    @Roche Rumble
    In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.

    Muslims and other sacred minorities are an early-warning system for Those Who Must Not Be Named. If the white British can be intimidated into tolerating bad behaviour from minorities, that helps TWMNBN feel safer. So the rule is that minorities are only ever victims, never victimizers. The Labour councils in Rotherham and Rochdale that ignored mass rape of working-class girls by Muslims are parallelled by the Labour council in London that ignored mass rape by homosexuals and ethnics:

    A blind eye to child abuse: Whistleblowers warned Labour leadership favourite Jeremy Corbyn of paedophiles preying on children on his doorstep - but claim he did NOTHING

    • Social workers warned Corbyn that child abuse was rife in his Islington constituency in 1992
    • ‘We'd been seeing so many 12 to 15-year-olds who were being sexually exploited, we could hardly believe it,’ Liz Davies, one of the five social workers, recalled this week
    • Corbyn never wrote to Davies, or telephoned, to acknowledge their meeting, or thank her for seeking to blow the whistle

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3181783/Did-Jeremy-Corbyn-try-protect-fellow-Left-wingers-implicated-paedophile-scandal.html

     

    Islington council was headed by Margaret Hodge, née Oppenheimer, who ignored child abuse on a grand scale in Islington before being appointed Minister for Children by Tony Blair in 2003. Muslims and gays are part of the coalition of the fringes, therefore their bad behaviour is ignored as long as possible. The Stephen Lawrence Cult, overseen by Dr Richard Stone, late of the Jewish Council for Racial Equality, is another part of the strategy.

    Curiously enough, Margaret Hodge is denoted by Wikipedia as not just of German-Jewish and Austrian-Jewish descent, but also as an Egyptian Jew (the place of her birth, it seems). She gets around.

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  71. Pericles says:
    @Svigor

    I instead posit a novel theoretical framework that highlights a key factor determining the extent of militant mobilization within aggrieved minority groups: the group’s perception of protection. Using this framework, I argue that minority Indian Muslims police themselves to prevent militancy within their community because they fear retaliatory indiscriminate mob violence, and this fear stems from a lack of confidence in the state to definitively protect Muslims from the mob.
     
    Yeah, real novel. I've been saying it here for like 15 years (though mostly vis-a-vis other groups). Many human groups, particularly those with south Asian, southwest Asian, or African ancestry, are either at your feet or at your throat. We currently have the luxury of deciding which.

    Reminds me of how Iranian Jews don't get up to much subversion or kulturkampf, at least, not in Iran.

    Nice, soft legal regimes are fine for Euro-Euro interactions. Chivalry is fine when it's reciprocated. Neither is for dealing with the likes people with SW Asian ancestry.

    The experience of Sweden, I would say, is that sending hardened criminal migrants to soft cozy prisons, possibly more luxurious than the place where they grew up, in order to play Xbox for a couple of years, is not quite the deterrent we expected.

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  72. KenH says:

    U.K., Scandinavian and European legal systems are incapable of dealing with the Muslim domestic threat. We like to project our worldview and values onto everyone and it’s getting a lot of white women raped and white Europeans killed as a result. Muslims are not peaceful and pacifistic Europeans, so another, more lethal and brutal justice system needs to be devised to specifically deal with them along with other incorrigible groups that our suicidal immigration and refugee policies allowed entry to.

    Since Muslims are a very recent arrival into Europe then forcible expulsion back to their lands of origins is the best option.

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  73. TTSSYF says:
    @Rod1963
    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn't they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha's? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don't want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It’s sold to us by the media as just another one of the world’s great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism, when in fact it is a religio-political system that is at odds with Western enlightenment in almost every regard. We believe in freedom of thought and speech. Muslims believe in a robotic existence where one must interrupt one’s day with bending down and scraping one’s head in a most undignified and ugly way to pray five times a day, intersperse conversation with constant references to Allah (PBUH) or Mohammed (PBUH), and sleep with one’s head facing Mecca. Anything else is “haram”. Muslims do not believe in photography, statuary, or any other kind of representational art, as that is “haram”. Muslims are cruel to animals, particularly dogs, which they believe to be dirty and disgusting. Muslims do not believe that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow (what we refer to as “interest”) and consider it usury. Muslims do not believe in equality of the sexes, as a Muslim man can have multiple wives as long as he “treats them fairly”. Women, on the other hand, are considered inherently sinful because their exposed beauty and emotionalism lures otherwise good Muslim men into sin; hence, they must be covered. Muslim men simply cannot accept women’s sexuality, even going so far as genital mutilation to try to squelch it.

    Muslims do not belong in the West, even the ones that appear to be pleasant and peaceful. It is oil and water and will lead to nothing good. I have known too many who, while they were high achievers (medical doctors, engineers, research scientists), smart, and had very witty or entertaining personalities, would on occasion allow the mask to slip and reveal intense, burning hatred for the West and Americans. These same people would relate how, when in their native country in the Middle East, the people cheered and passed out candy when the Challenger exploded, and how they would love to be able to assassinate GHWB.

    We can tolerate them in very small numbers, but should that percentage rise to some critical number (10%?), I believe we will see a very different type of collective behavior here in the U.S.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    The problem isn't Islam. The problem is Arabs. Turns out people with an IQ of just north of 80 aren't compatible with Western society.

    However since our leaders took power by telling everyone intelligence doesn't exist because it makes people feel sad, they are unable to deal with this.
    , @Forbes

    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It’s sold to us by the media as just another one of the world’s great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism...
     
    You could've ended right there. That appears to be the extent of the average American's exposure to Islam.

    Since--or I should say, in the aftermath of--9/11, I've taken it upon myself to read several works on Islam, and I've recommended one or two of them to others in conversation. I cannot say that I've run into any American that has read anything on Islam, or holds any but the most superficial PC-infused opinion about Islam. It's rather depressing, both the lack of curiosity and the PC strictures regarding Islam.
    , @Bill Jones
    In what way is "Judaism" one of the worlds great religions?
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  74. TTSSYF says:
    @NickG
    This strong backlash against Muslim collective pugnaciousness is being repeated in Myanmar/ Burma with their Bengali/ Rohingya Muslims in the Western Arakan/ Rakhine state. The press just rarely cover the frontlash that is causing this indigenous Burmese collective backlash.

    This can be seen as a collective immune response to a social pathogen. Western European societies do not seem to have an effective collective functioning immune system against inbreeding, in group prefrence, pugnacious Muslim interlopers.

    I think it is because we assume we can reason with them…that they will be persuaded by our good will, fair play, and logical arguments. It’s the same sort of phenomenon you see with bleeding heart Leftists (e.g., Norman Mailer) who think they can reform a cold-blooded murderer (Jack Henry Abbott) by earnest conversation.

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    • Agree: Forbes
    • Replies: @NickG

    I think it is because we assume we can reason with them…that they will be persuaded by our good will, fair play, and logical arguments. It’s the same sort of phenomenon you see with bleeding heart Leftists (e.g., Norman Mailer) who think they can reform a cold-blooded murderer (Jack Henry Abbott) by earnest conversation.
     
    It's ironic that this is redolent of a mind-numbing lack of empathy.

    It's ironic because of the patronising sanctimony, underpinned by ostentatious status posturing and virtue signaling with which such views are proffered.
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  75. Thea says:

    White men simply do not care about defending their culture or people. If they did none of this would go unpunished.

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  76. M_Young says:

    Back in 2000 or so a Moroccan itinerant worker raped and murdered a girl in Andalucia, Spain. The locals burned the itinerant’s camp down. There was much shock and horror by the great and the good in Madrid and Brussels, but ‘direct action’ seemed to do the trick.

    Come to think of it the threat of white violence and/or disapproval seemed to keep blacks from their worst impulses in the US. Look at the public face of a Nat King Cole or even MLKJ vs. Snoop Dog and Sharpton now.

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  77. biz says:
    @Yak-15
    In India, Muslims are also equally as wretchedly poor as everyone else. In western nations, the poverty of most Islamic people breeds murderous resentment. I believe this can also explain why blacks ar eparticukatly violent in the new world (even more so than Africa).

    Ah yes, the poverty theory of Muslim misbehavior. Suffers from the defect that it is contradicted by all of the available evidence. I’ll start the list to give a taste but I’m not in the mood to finish it:

    Jihadi John: Masters in Comp Sci from LSE
    Doctors plot: Name says it all
    Nidal Hasan: MD with comfortable lifestyle
    San Bernardino couple: Earning $70,000 one year out of undergrad
    9/11 hijackers: More Masters degrees in Engineering than I care to count
    Bin Laden: one of the richest men in the world
    and so on

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    It’s important that you apply your narrative more selectively. I was writing about the mindless violence of masses of inbred, low-IQ Muslims causing social problems in host nations. Your writing about strategically inspired people acting out their hate of US foreign policy. They are different and the remedies for each are somewhat different. But, in both cases, stop their entrance, radically assimilate those who offer upside, deport the rest.
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  78. rec1man says:
    @Vinay
    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    In which universe is this LESS effective than sporadic mob violence and unsolved terrorism cases? India would gladly trade the FBI, the CIA and the Pentagon for a vengeful mob.

    The US methodology is more effective vs the external muslim

    The Indian methodology is more effective against the internal muslim

    If USA had done a 2002 – Gujurat type reprisal against internal muslims, after 9-11, there would be no more Jihad inside the USA, instead we have periodic truck bombs, vehicular jihad etc

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  79. RonaldB says:
    @Yak-15
    In India, Muslims are also equally as wretchedly poor as everyone else. In western nations, the poverty of most Islamic people breeds murderous resentment. I believe this can also explain why blacks ar eparticukatly violent in the new world (even more so than Africa).

    Consider that in their native lands of origin, effective social control mechanisms existed to keep the sociopath inhabitants in line. I label the inhabitants sociopath because their controls are external and not internal, unlike most westerners.

    Steve’s article mentioned the certainty that in their native lands, the tribe of any girl molested would kill the perp if from another tribe. If from the same tribe, the girl’s family would kill him. Or, if someone simply offended the mores of his own tribe, the tribal elders would kill him.

    People who evolve under this form of social control immigrate to the West, where people are expected to restrain themselves, and they just go wild. It’s like a youngster in a fully-stocked candy store with no adult in sight.

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  80. RonaldB says:
    @G Pinfold
    The dynamic you’re talking about is all important. A certain Moldbug wrote of how Cromer kept a lid on Egypt (of all crazy places) for decades, such that no one would even imagine it was a hotbed of revolutionary activism, etc.
    South Africa in the 1970s was similar. Law and order was phenomenal, underpinned by the kind of mild terror that said ‘no good will come of being a hothead.’ All of the underlying trouble was in foment, yet it never manifested.
    Ultimately, the whites lost their resolve and the blacks seized the terror; started burning people to death in the streets for insufficient revolutionary zeal. And the rest is History.
    Back to the topic: There is nothing inevitable about History. The Boers were strong for a while but lost their mojo, and they were thoroughly white-anted too by liberal and communist whites. Someone else could in theory do better.

    “Ultimately, the whites lost their resolve and the blacks seized the terror;”

    Consider the possibility that the whites were victims of their own success. By creating a society with easy welfare and hospitable living circumstances, the white population gradually lost its genetic edge and deteriorated to the point they were unwilling to fight for their own dominance.

    The description of mechanisms for such a deterioration can be found in books such as https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Famine-geniuses-theyre-rescue-ebook/dp/B01AYE5JVQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511452322&sr=8-1&keywords=genius+famine

    The same mechanisms might account for the willingness of whites in Sweden, France, Britain, Canada and others to passively support the mainstream government importing millions of unassimilatable savages.

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  81. So basically justice is served out by the ancient tradition of an eye for an eye. And, it actually works.

    Amazin’.

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  82. RonaldB says:
    @PiltdownMan
    The "Cool it! You'll get us into trouble" minority social dynamic.

    As an aside, I note that the paper, like a lot of papers in sociology and political science these days, is grotesquely math-y in parts. Check out page 68, for instance.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54aa3aa4e4b03d35acd2f769/t/59f7caef6c319421a02b6f28/1509411569318/Job+Market+Paper+-+Mob+Violence+and+Militancy.pdf

    The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy, these days. Quantitative and analytic political science types lord it over more verbal types.

    “The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy…”

    Maybe.

    On the other hand, he is trying to fit the study into the constraints of game theory. If successful, one would be able to predict how much mob violence was necessary and sufficient to keep a lid on Muslims. It might be unjust, but if the predictions worked, no more unjust than necessary, surely a concept to appeal to the Western mind.

    If truly predictive, his game theory modeling might be able to predict whether Steve’s suggestion of rigorous law enforcement against actual perpetrators would be successful in suppressing terror violence.

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  83. Malla says:

    The people of the West have been brainwashed to be as self haters and be pussies and the lower classes of the black brown world are predatory towards weakness and niceness. Western people are dying to prove to the darkies that they are not racists. That is one of the worst way to deal with brown black peasant classes, the correct response would be to not care about being called ‘racist’ and actually blame the opposition for being racists. If British people were like Indian Hindus, a party like the BNP would have already won overwhelming majority by now. But British people are suicidal and obsessed with their moral superiority. Ah, the ‘Moral superiority’ craze!! It is the destroyer of nations and peoples. Many a people have gone and will go extinct due to this mental disease. Strangely after they disappear, they are still called evil by ‘official history’. So one will wonders, what he whole thing was about anyways. Becoming extinct over nothing.
    In India, the masses do not care about being called racists nor care about moral superiority beyond a point. Survival trumps everything. That is why 200 years from now there will be no British people, no German people. Their monuments will survive as ruins and their culture a past, like the ancient Egyptians. Official ‘History’ will still call them evil and the victory of the brown masses over the Whites as the victory of good over evil. Good and evil turned upside down. Happened before, will happen again.
    But guess what, Hindus will live, live as a people, live as a culture 200 years from now. They will write their own history and in their ‘history’ they are always the good guys and the others, the bad guy. Even if the Hindus genocide off most of the Muslims of India, their official ‘history’ will still justify why the good Hindus had to kill the bad Muslims, women, children and all. Because for the survivalist Hindus, this is justified.

    Anyways, the philosophy of the RSS or Shiv Sena of the Western state of Maharastra is not much different from the BNP. The Shiv Sena was born as a nationalist party of local Marathis who oppose the immigration of South Indians into the Western State of Maharashtra. It is only later that they turned on local Muslims. That way they are not that different than say the BNP. Indeed I would say that the British Nationalist Party is very mild and civilised compared to the Shiv Sena or the RSS (Rastriya Swamseva Sangh) or the VHP (Vishwa Hindu Parishad translated to World Hindu Council) or Bajrang Dal. But guess what, the Shiv Sena has been in power many times in the State of Maharastra and the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party translated to The Indian People’s Party), the political wing of the VHP is in power with a landslide in India. The BNP (British Nationalist Party) hides in shadows and hardly gets anything in the British Parliament. Indians feel nothing wrong morally for supporting these parties, they support them farting loud and proud. The supporters of the British nationalist Party have to hide in the shadows like rats from other British People, who show their moral superiority (and thus their stupidity) by looking down upon these BNP supporters.

    If 200 years later one is to research, why the British as a people and culture has become extinct and why we Hindus are still there, shitting, farting loud and proud, the above point of the political success of the Indian BJP vs British BNP will explain it all.

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  84. Big Bill says:
    @Anonymous
    http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/

    From 1189 to 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms in London, York, and numerous other cities and towns displayed cruelty and barbarity never before seen by English Jews. Indeed, these acts of violence distinguished themselves as some of the worst atrocities committed against European Jews in the Middle Ages....
     

    Wow! So mob violence DOES work in England. Good news, that. There is some hope left.

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  85. Yak-15 says:
    @Fredrik
    On the other hand the individual Muslims are much better off in the West than in their homelands. Somehow that doesn't count. It isn't surprising because at least the children born in the West will compare themselves to locals and not the cousins back home. Obviously this is another argument to keep them out.

    It’s all about relative wealth. One of the greatest failures of neoclassical economics is the focus on total wealth rather than relative wealth. People are naturally competitive.

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    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
    "One of the greatest failures of neoclassical economics is the focus on total wealth rather than relative wealth."
    Is it a failure, or a misrepresentation of neoclassical economics? Adam Smith was an ethicist, and spoke of the "political economy". He understood that political decisions influenced the economic model. Today's "free trade" agreements and resulting abolishment of excise taxes didn't just happen. Those with the most to gain bought their political whores to enact legislation allowing it.
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  86. Yak-15 says:
    @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many...yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.

    Agreed. Their only upside is depressing wages of employees for the large holders of capital – the extremely wealthy.

    The rest of us deal with the negative externalities. The rest of us watch our inheritance dwindle.

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  87. Malla says:

    I think there is one more point to consider between India and Western Europe for example. The Muslims of India, at least 90% of them are genetically and culturally fully Indians. They have shared the history of the land with Hindus and Jains. Most Muslims here at one level know and realize they were Hindus once centuries ago except that they look at that era as some of ‘era of darkness and false worship of idols’ before they got the message of Allah via Islam, the true message of God. The rest , Ashrafi elite muslims, are Persians, Arabs, Turks, Uzbeks, Mughal/Mongols mixed with upper caste Indians. Hindu and Muslim culture are intertwined.

    That is not the case with 95% of the Muslims of Western Europe, they are outsiders residing in Europe with passports (or not). They are not genetically or culturally European. We are not dealing with real native British or French or German or Dutch White Muslims like is the case in Bosnia. They never shared the history of the land with the other Europeans, their ancestors did not fight the many European wars of the Middle ages. They cannot relate to the European civilization or the land of Europe.

    I forsee a dystopian future, a third world Europe full of brown Muslims and non muslim brown minorities having many riots. The great buildings of Europe, ruins after looting and destruction by riots by the brown hordes in some past. Chinese and rich Hindu arrogant tourists galore around these ruins paying extra for security from the local thugs. Just like how the ruins of Egypt were once full of European tourists once among local people who had no emotional conncetion to those ruins. The natives of Europe, long extinct, ‘official history’ still calls them evil and their destruction the victory of good over evil just as official ‘history’ considers the French and Russian revolutions as good revolutions. Yes, Whites will still be called ‘evil’ even after they sacrifice themselves with their moral superiority and disappear. Is it unfair? Of course it is, right has become wrong and wrong has become right. But the Zio Globalists have framed it that way and the brown black masses, ever jealous of the White world, full of hatred and envy have lapped up the narrative with relish. There are a few browns who suspect that the official history is wrong, it is the moral ones who became extinct but they would rather ignore it and believe the official narrative as they are survivalists and survivalists are always right no matter what they do. Maybe some East Asian historians will write down what really happened.
    In North America, maybe the only surviving Whites, the Mormons live in reservations and Chinese and rich arrogant Indian tourists will go to see them, as tourists now a days go and see the Masai of Kenya. That is the future it seems.
    But India will be full of Hindus farting loud and proud.

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    • Replies: @Third world nationalist
    In India, the Muslim TFR is much higher then the Dharmic TFR, the Muslim population as a percentage has increased since by quite a bit since independence. Should this continue, they will become the majority and the Hindus will be on the receiving end of mob violence. Violence begets violence.The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.
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  88. ATBOTL says:
    @Svigor
    The thing about collective violence of the sort described is that it's grass-roots. The problematic group in question know it's grass-roots, and that it isn't going to go away when a new administration takes over, or some politician gets bribed. They know it's not going away any time soon; it's a cultural value, a fact on the ground and the street. "You know the crackers are gonna burn all our families' houses down for this, right?" It's so much more immediate a concern than the legal system. Immediacy is important for people with short time horizons.

    Don't wag your finger at me - the left knew they were importing all of this. They knew they were destroying Nice White Norms.

    This is a really important point. Civil society has failed white people. We need to bring back tribal forms of social organization. We can’t rely on governments, Christian churches, police or militaries to protect us. All of those institutions have failed 100%.

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  89. @Altai
    That's only partly true for places like Britain, Belgium, France and Germany. The bulk, essentially all after the 70s have come in without being overly tied to any industry or place.

    The same process occurs in countries and places where that dynamic did not take place at all.

    Yes, you’re right. An already bad situation was made worse by letting in even more Muslims.

    And Sweden, who sat out WW II, didn’t need post-war help.

    But they showed how idiotic they were by recently deciding to accept any Syrian who showed up, no background checking. And boat people…

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  90. Dave says:
    @Rod1963
    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn't they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha's? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don't want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    The interesting, and rather depressing, point to your conclusion is that until about 2 generations ago, white people did not lack the resolve to deal with miscreants and interlopers… with extreme ruthlessness.
    Something happened after WWII. Western elites lost their resolve, and then started demanding that all white people lose ours. It took awhile, with a lot of emotional and psychological manipulation directed by media and academia towards western populations.
    But it worked, and today we have western peoples, the majority of whom believe that the greatest possible sin is to be seen as “racist”. Most western whites would rather die, or be killed, than be seen as bigoted in any way, shape or form.

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  91. Big Bill says:
    @unit472
    Just finished reading an interesting feature in the Tampa newspaper on the breakdown of social order in the black community. A man a buys house across from a convenience store and the hoodrats take over his yard. Tragic but inevitable given the nature of black people.

    http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2017/features/house-on-the-corner/clearwater-shooting-defense-anthony-roy/

    That story is so sad. The worst offenders are the white police and prosecutors. They cannot police the city. They ignore the gun-toting and drug-dealing for years, then show up and prosecute a decent black man just trying to live right. Detroit is more hopeful. The (black) Detroit police, prosecutors and courts ignore many killings like this. They characterize them as “justifiable homicides” and do not prosecute.

    If the police won’t police chaotic neighborhoods, the people have a right to do so without later nit-picking and hair-splitting pilpul.

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  92. @Rod1963
    Problem is, income plays no role in radicalization. Any Muslim can flip into jihadi mode under the right circumstances.

    Muslims are colonists in the West, not immigrants. They form their own enclaves and communities have little to do with us Kaffir. They do not respect our laws or culture. In fact they see them as inferior to Islam. They see Westerners as weak and degenerate, unwilling to fight for their own people and country.

    And why wouldn't they. We do nothing when our people are killed by them, except act mystified then go about being sheeple 10 minutes after the attack.

    The more observant a Muslim becomes the more resentful they become to the non-believers around them and start supporting jihadi attacks against their host nation. You see the guys with their women in Burkha's? They are plain ass evil and want you dead if given the opportunity. They are the most likely to fund Jihadis here as well.

    You want it to end? Deport them all. Don't want to? then collective punishment. When one of them kills Americans. You bulldoze down the Mosque he attended and deport the Iman. The same with the Jihadis parents and wife I guarantee you it will stop real fast.

    White Americans lack the innate ruthlessness to deal with these people in the way they respect.

    I was only saying that things in the US could get worse… I should have said, will get worse,

    I completely agree that they make terrible immigrants. I know all about the immigration jihad. And that professionals aren’t immune to Sudden Jihad Syndrome.

    In places like the UK and Sweden, they effectively colonized the areas that they’re living in.

    Sadly, I don’t think it’s realistic to think any Western country can get rid of them now. Trump can’t even get a partial ban on more coming to the US.

    And they wouldn’t go without a fight. And Muslims fight dirty.

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  93. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @anonymous
    If you consider the hindoo "religion," it is arguably the most batshit crazy one out there. What do you think following such a faith, especially taking that to a fundamentalist level, does to a human mind? Think about that.

    I mean, come on;

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BTDJ-gkD2HC/?hl=en

    Anyway, so this fellow is advocating that other nations with significant and marginalised Muslims should also adopt similar state sponsored terror tactics?

    You mean, like the west is not already doing that, internally and externally? What do you think is happening in the ME?

    I laugh at the likes of him. The entire Christian\Polytheist world is sitting on top a spiritual time bomb, and you wish to show Muslims their place in your societies, and the world at large?

    If you spiritual losers have the balls, take a day or two and peruse every corner of this website;

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/db0_onegod.htm

    http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/m01_religion.htm

    You can cow us down, but at least we have True Monotheism. What you have is a one way ticket to Hell.

    Yoga is part of Hinduism. It’s pretty popular.

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  94. vx37 says:

    and this fear stems from a lack of confidence in the state to definitively protect Muslims from the mob.

    So they’re just like whites in America. Except here the government is part of the mob. The main part.

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  95. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Singapore keeps its Muslims from causing trouble in a much better, morally defensible way – the same one it uses on the rest of its population.
    Strong, fair, well- enforced rule of law.
    What a concept, huh?

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  96. @Anonymous

    In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.
     
    My theory is that the police looked the other way as a counterterrorism measure.

    As has been noted, ISIS recruits a lot of sexually frustrated Muslim males.

    So these tens of thousands of enslaved white girls are sexually satisfying literal divisions of Muslims, so they have no frustrations to channel into terrorism.

    And enforcing the law would also feed into the religious persecution => religious terrorism pipeline. (The perpetrators are very quick to bring up "racism" in the courtrooms.)

    That's a lot of bomb plots quashed. Plots that might actually affect the rich.

    Rape jihad channels bomb jihad away from the cosmopolitan upper-middle-class diversity lovers.

    In pre multi-culti Britain, police “looked the other way” when it came to petty crime. The unspoken agreement was, in return, the petty criminal network would assist the police when it came to violent crimes, particularly assaults on police or use of guns.
    If police “look the other way” these days, it is because the political class and the courts has neutralized the police effort in tracking these people down. Not surprising since governments and courts refuse to uphold their own laws. Virtually every country requires an oath and/or pledge of naturalized citizenship that requires:
    1) a declaration of allegiance to a constitution or monarch;
    2) a declaration to obey the laws of the country;
    3) a declaration to defend the country.

    It would be simple to revoke citizenship and deport these people on any of the above grounds. If they were born in the country, deporting the parent(s) who did not report their children could be done on the same grounds. The extension would be revoking the citizenship of the children given the citizenship of the parents would be considered gained by false pretenses/fraud. A conviction for fraud or other criminal act cannot, under natural justice, result in a benefit for the criminal. If child were to remain in the country, it would be a benefit for the parent. The only problem is a lack of political will.

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  97. @Yak-15
    It's all about relative wealth. One of the greatest failures of neoclassical economics is the focus on total wealth rather than relative wealth. People are naturally competitive.

    “One of the greatest failures of neoclassical economics is the focus on total wealth rather than relative wealth.”
    Is it a failure, or a misrepresentation of neoclassical economics? Adam Smith was an ethicist, and spoke of the “political economy”. He understood that political decisions influenced the economic model. Today’s “free trade” agreements and resulting abolishment of excise taxes didn’t just happen. Those with the most to gain bought their political whores to enact legislation allowing it.

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  98. Svigor says:

    On Indians hating Muslims, anyone who wants to verify this can go to Twitter and peep all the Indian Muslim-haters there. It’s to the extent that many praise and admire the Mongols (who killed a shitload of Indians back in the day).

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  99. rec1man says:

    Indian police do baton charge on rioting bearded jihadi muslims

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  100. vx37 says:
    @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many...yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.

    brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles)

    Don’t know for sure, but I doubt it. I’m guessing that the majority came in long after those industries were defunct. Most have probably come in since the ’90s, not for economic reasons but because of the media-enforced religious fanaticism that has seized our leaders. Essentially white-hating racism. There was no practical or economic reason for Merkel to bring in a million invaders, she was virtue signalling to her peers and coreligionists with a vast act of charity. Unfortunately what she is giving away doesn’t belong to her, but that too is a virtue in this new religion.

    Islam and Christianity are proxies for race in the modern leftist dominated society. You never see lefties attacking non-white Christian churches, and the only value that Islam has for the left is that they are are overwhelmingly not white and are destructive to the white societies they are being imported into. The crimes they commit against the natives are more racial hate crimes than religious ones. The left will support even Islam because they don’t really care what comes after, they just want you dead.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    There were some guest workers brought in post WW II, I’ve read about it.

    But they became a really obnoxious presence after even more were let in by idiot politicians. The existing ones were permitted to bring their whole village clans in. “Family reunification”.

    Merkel then just piled on more problems by adding to them.

    Future generations will curse our leaders.

    For the life of me, I can’t figure out her reasoning. Virtue signalling to who?

    Public opinion had started to shift against it by 2015. In the 1990s, before the Internet got really going, there was no organized opposition to mass immigration.

    There might have been some opposition but the general public had no way of locating information about it pre-Internet.
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  101. @Anonymous
    http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/

    From 1189 to 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms in London, York, and numerous other cities and towns displayed cruelty and barbarity never before seen by English Jews. Indeed, these acts of violence distinguished themselves as some of the worst atrocities committed against European Jews in the Middle Ages....
     

    I’m against communal violence, and the best way–*the way*–you eliminate it is to avoid “communalism”, by which I mean you avoid having separate communities. This in fact is what Christianity did–mostly did–in Europe over the last 1500 or so years–suppressed tribalism.

    Yes there is unfortunate history here–the Jews were already there. Some Jews had moved into England and at the time no one was policing the border, nor would have had the longer term understanding that the Jews were going to be a non-integrable tribe as England consolidated a national identity.

    The outcome here though–for England–was very positive. Having expelled the Jews, as England developed its *own* people did the middle-man trading and bureaucratic functions and as result its population was well prepared to thrive in the age of discovery, launch the industrial revolution and build an Empire.

    In contrast the nations in the East that foolishly took in the Jews–i.e. Poland–had the Jews doing their trading and tax-farming. This was great for the Jews who underwent such a huge population expansion that they overflowed the available middle-man occupations and had to buy land and return to farming. (Ex. Fiddler on the Roof.) But this was terrible for the genetic/cultural development of those peoples, for national cohesion of those nations. And having Jewish tax-farmers over the heads of the peasantry energized ethnic antagonisms–which will always exist with separate ethnic groups anyway. The fallout from this in terms of backwardness, misery, destruction and death right on through the last century is horrific. And the toll is still rising as this history infects American politics/culture and threatens to destroy the US and the West.
    The West may simply not survive it.

    The moral is simple. You don’t want communalism–don’t allow separate communities. In particular keep out of your nation anyone who will be a separate community from your nation.

    Unfortunately this is precisely what the US–and the broader West–has failed to do. And its destruction looms.

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    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Yes there is unfortunate history here–the Jews were already there. Some Jews had moved into England and at the time no one was policing the border, nor would have had the longer term understanding that the Jews were going to be a non-integrable tribe as England consolidated a national identity.
     
    Jews were let in specifically because we were a non-integrable tribe; the elite needed people who were willing to screw over others and provide them plausible deniability. The fact Jews were seen as horrible people was a plus for the monarch- it made then dependent on him and a source of wealth to be extracted.

    Never ascribe to accident what can be explained by malice and stupidity.
    , @Forbes
    Separate countries for separate peoples. Like in commerce, there's nothing controversial about arm's length transactions between countries.
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  102. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    and this fear stems from a lack of confidence in the state to definitively protect Muslims from the mob.

    Muslims know that this is no concern in the West as Western governments give the offending muzzies a slap on the wrist while dragging their own people off to prison if they dare criticize or threaten the muzzie terrorists and evildoers.

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  103. Malla says:
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  104. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Svigor
    The thing about collective violence of the sort described is that it's grass-roots. The problematic group in question know it's grass-roots, and that it isn't going to go away when a new administration takes over, or some politician gets bribed. They know it's not going away any time soon; it's a cultural value, a fact on the ground and the street. "You know the crackers are gonna burn all our families' houses down for this, right?" It's so much more immediate a concern than the legal system. Immediacy is important for people with short time horizons.

    Don't wag your finger at me - the left knew they were importing all of this. They knew they were destroying Nice White Norms.

    “You know the crackers are gonna burn all our families’ houses down for this, right?”

    That’s what used to keep the blacks honest before 1965; not necessarily Johnny law.

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  105. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Samuel Skinner
    Spencer's get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.

    The Left is openly bragging about exterminating white people and the far right is weaker in the West then any time in human history. The only thing different now is the internet.

    Yes, I know you don't believe me. Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage. The Poz does not reverse. It continues until civilization collapses and we are forced to eat each other to survive because no one knows how to run the Haber Process to produce fertilizer in industrial quantities.

    Spencer’s get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.

    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he’s a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.

    Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage.

    Meanwhile there’s little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he’s a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.
     
    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.

    Meanwhile there’s little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).
     
    Then name a better metric we have data for. Disapproval of interracial marriage is tied to having healthy racial views; what other criteria do you have to track that.
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  106. Svigor says:

    In absence of any sort of organization for natives and delegitimization of efforts to build such an organization, I don’t see how “submission” can be prevented.

    Conspiratorial insurgencies are a common next step. Cells are spontaneously formed; all the needed ideological and organizational stuff can be distributed anonymously via the net.

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  107. Svigor says:

    Singapore keeps its Muslims from causing trouble in a much better, morally defensible way – the same one it uses on the rest of its population.
    Strong, fair, well- enforced rule of law.
    What a concept, huh?

    When I say “Muslim,” I usually mean south and southwest Asian, north African Muslim populations.

    Which I’m guessing Singapore doesn’t have in numbers.

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  108. MBlanc46 says:

    Rule of law works for most Europeans and perhaps East Asians. For everyone else, best stick with the traditional, proven-effective methods.

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  109. MBlanc46 says:
    @whahae
    The South used the same strategy with blacks. Seemed to work.

    We should try that system again, but in a more rule-of-law inflected fashion

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  110. But what did the English ever know about maintaining an orderly yet free society?

    So true, and so important to remind ourselves today that that is not Who We Are.

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  111. @AndrewR
    What on earth are you talking about? Approving of interracial marriage doesn't mean you have to approve of your group becoming second-class citizens. Many, and probably most, whites are anti-racist in the literal, non-Orwellian sense. Interracial marriage per se doesn't bother them (even if it's not something they personally would engage in) and they object to anti-white policies and rhetoric. Obviously, they don't object strongly enough to make much of a political difference, but at least on paper they are anti-anti-white. In my experience, most whites find Richard Spencer types equally as repugnant as they find the anti-white left.

    And even most of the most vehemently anti-white SJWs and Professional POC do not object to interracial marriage, at least openly, although certainly one could find individual examples to the contrary.

    Interracial marriage per se doesn’t bother them (even if it’s not something they personally would engage in) and they object to anti-white policies and rhetoric.

    When America had sane racial attitudes and racial policies, the population opposed inter-racial marriage. The fact they do not oppose inter-racial marriage is evidence of a decline. They are either browbeaten, no longer care about the common welfare or are ignorant.

    You seem to be the last category. Look up the rates of divorce for white women-black man marriages to see why Americans used to oppose inter-racial marriage.

    Obviously, they don’t object strongly enough to make much of a political difference, but at least on paper they are anti-anti-white.

    They just support fewer and fewer policies to that end.

    And even most of the most vehemently anti-white SJWs and Professional POC do not object to interracial marriage, at least openly, although certainly one could find individual examples to the contrary.

    The United States has half a million Orthodox Jews who reject interreligious (aka interracial marriage).

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  112. @AnotherDad
    I'm against communal violence, and the best way--*the way*--you eliminate it is to avoid "communalism", by which I mean you avoid having separate communities. This in fact is what Christianity did--mostly did--in Europe over the last 1500 or so years--suppressed tribalism.

    Yes there is unfortunate history here--the Jews were already there. Some Jews had moved into England and at the time no one was policing the border, nor would have had the longer term understanding that the Jews were going to be a non-integrable tribe as England consolidated a national identity.

    The outcome here though--for England--was very positive. Having expelled the Jews, as England developed its *own* people did the middle-man trading and bureaucratic functions and as result its population was well prepared to thrive in the age of discovery, launch the industrial revolution and build an Empire.

    In contrast the nations in the East that foolishly took in the Jews--i.e. Poland--had the Jews doing their trading and tax-farming. This was great for the Jews who underwent such a huge population expansion that they overflowed the available middle-man occupations and had to buy land and return to farming. (Ex. Fiddler on the Roof.) But this was terrible for the genetic/cultural development of those peoples, for national cohesion of those nations. And having Jewish tax-farmers over the heads of the peasantry energized ethnic antagonisms--which will always exist with separate ethnic groups anyway. The fallout from this in terms of backwardness, misery, destruction and death right on through the last century is horrific. And the toll is still rising as this history infects American politics/culture and threatens to destroy the US and the West.
    The West may simply not survive it.

    The moral is simple. You don't want communalism--don't allow separate communities. In particular keep out of your nation anyone who will be a separate community from your nation.

    Unfortunately this is precisely what the US--and the broader West--has failed to do. And its destruction looms.

    Yes there is unfortunate history here–the Jews were already there. Some Jews had moved into England and at the time no one was policing the border, nor would have had the longer term understanding that the Jews were going to be a non-integrable tribe as England consolidated a national identity.

    Jews were let in specifically because we were a non-integrable tribe; the elite needed people who were willing to screw over others and provide them plausible deniability. The fact Jews were seen as horrible people was a plus for the monarch- it made then dependent on him and a source of wealth to be extracted.

    Never ascribe to accident what can be explained by malice and stupidity.

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  113. @TTSSYF
    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It's sold to us by the media as just another one of the world's great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism, when in fact it is a religio-political system that is at odds with Western enlightenment in almost every regard. We believe in freedom of thought and speech. Muslims believe in a robotic existence where one must interrupt one's day with bending down and scraping one's head in a most undignified and ugly way to pray five times a day, intersperse conversation with constant references to Allah (PBUH) or Mohammed (PBUH), and sleep with one's head facing Mecca. Anything else is "haram". Muslims do not believe in photography, statuary, or any other kind of representational art, as that is "haram". Muslims are cruel to animals, particularly dogs, which they believe to be dirty and disgusting. Muslims do not believe that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow (what we refer to as "interest") and consider it usury. Muslims do not believe in equality of the sexes, as a Muslim man can have multiple wives as long as he "treats them fairly". Women, on the other hand, are considered inherently sinful because their exposed beauty and emotionalism lures otherwise good Muslim men into sin; hence, they must be covered. Muslim men simply cannot accept women's sexuality, even going so far as genital mutilation to try to squelch it.

    Muslims do not belong in the West, even the ones that appear to be pleasant and peaceful. It is oil and water and will lead to nothing good. I have known too many who, while they were high achievers (medical doctors, engineers, research scientists), smart, and had very witty or entertaining personalities, would on occasion allow the mask to slip and reveal intense, burning hatred for the West and Americans. These same people would relate how, when in their native country in the Middle East, the people cheered and passed out candy when the Challenger exploded, and how they would love to be able to assassinate GHWB.

    We can tolerate them in very small numbers, but should that percentage rise to some critical number (10%?), I believe we will see a very different type of collective behavior here in the U.S.

    The problem isn’t Islam. The problem is Arabs. Turns out people with an IQ of just north of 80 aren’t compatible with Western society.

    However since our leaders took power by telling everyone intelligence doesn’t exist because it makes people feel sad, they are unable to deal with this.

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    • Replies: @Escher
    Disagree. The problem is the corrupting influence of Wahabi Islam. Muslim countries in Africa and South East Asia used to be relatively secular and peaceful before the Saudis started funding Jihad-preaching mosques and Imams.
    , @BB753
    You're mistaken. It's indeed Islam that's at fault. That Muslims are almost universally dim only makes matters worse.
    Just show me a country where Muslims and other religions /ethnic groups coexist peacefully!
    Islam, by its very nature, wants to dominate, submit every non-Muslim or convert them by force. That's why there are two only possible ways to deal with Muslims: deportation (Myanmar) or using the big stick (India, Russia).
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  114. Anonym says:
    @Vinay
    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    In which universe is this LESS effective than sporadic mob violence and unsolved terrorism cases? India would gladly trade the FBI, the CIA and the Pentagon for a vengeful mob.

    After 9/11, the American people didn’t randomly riot against their Muslim neighbors in retaliation. Instead, the US government quickly uncovered the entire plot, started a worldwide hunt for anyone connected with it and toppled the Taliban. Oh, and destroyed Sunni hegemony in Iraq and set the Middle East on fire, for good measure.

    These Muslims were so effective they managed to infiltrate and destroy WTC7 even though it housed a CIA office and wasn’t hit by any planes. Which happened under the watch of the son of this CIA guy who unlike any other adult, can’t remember where he was when JFK was shot. Inspires a lot of confidence!

    Then you get Fort Hood and the Pulse Nightclub happening anyway, along with the creation of ISIS and millions of Muslims migrating everywhere, raping young white women and children. Oh, and the expenditure of trillions of USD on a footgun, while China eclipses the US GDP and starts militarizing islands in the vicinity.

    I like the India model much better. And after the media arcs up, the next time let the mob go through offices of the media.

    But even better than the India model, I prefer the Israel and Japan model of not letting non-nationals immigrate in the first place.

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  115. Like Trump said, take out their families.

    Many, perhaps most of the (((pundits))) who sputtered and spluttered about “a presidential candidate endorsing war crimes” are curiously silent when a certain Middle Eastern country employs collective responsibility tactics in dealing with *its* Muslim terrorist problem.

    Listen to uncle Louis:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfnEKwoUDy0#

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  116. pyrrhus says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    IOW, and contra conventional wisdom, rather than causing more terrorism, Islamophobia prevents it.

    Precisely…Mob violence has always been an antidote to minorities taking advantage of the majority. In England under Henry II, a certain money lending guy named Aaron died, and it was discovered that he was the 2d richest man in England. Henry II confiscated his wealth under the usury laws, including a large loan to the king himself, and there were a number of mob attacks on other money lenders…This counseled some future discretion on the part of such folks…

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  117. @Frau Katze
    Yes, you’re right. These groups become insufferable in our society.

    “Multiculturalism” is a complete disaster.

    However, I’ve read that Muslims in the USA are actually above average in wages (many are professionals and you don’t have that many...yet).

    In Europe Muslims are underachievers. They’re descendants of North African peasants brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles). The jobs are gone but the “guest” workers were still made permanent.

    Their descendants are a resentful, angry , often violent underclass.

    Muslims in the USA may earn above-average salaries / wages, I’ll be interested to check … but they also have more children on average than white Americans, at least three kids as opposed to just under two kids.

    Just one additional child in government school (“public” school) for one year costs fed and state/local taxpayers at least TEN grand per kid in California, $12 k in New Jersey, and TWENTY grand per kid in New York, three populous States where a disproportionate share of US Muslims live.

    One must offset the hefty property taxes that people in those States pay, of course, especially New Jersey.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Yes, large families are a form of jihad.
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  118. Yup, Threats of random extreme violence will do that for ya.

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  119. @Anonymous
    http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Pogroms-1189-1190/

    From 1189 to 1190, the anti-Jewish pogroms in London, York, and numerous other cities and towns displayed cruelty and barbarity never before seen by English Jews. Indeed, these acts of violence distinguished themselves as some of the worst atrocities committed against European Jews in the Middle Ages....
     

    Don’t worry, we’re equal-opportunity mass-murderers. Danes get it too.
    St Brice’s Day, 13 Nov 1002. It’s only fair.

    https://www.archaeology.org/issues/109-1311/features/1421-viking-england-st-brices-day

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  120. El Dato says:
    @PiltdownMan
    The "Cool it! You'll get us into trouble" minority social dynamic.

    As an aside, I note that the paper, like a lot of papers in sociology and political science these days, is grotesquely math-y in parts. Check out page 68, for instance.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54aa3aa4e4b03d35acd2f769/t/59f7caef6c319421a02b6f28/1509411569318/Job+Market+Paper+-+Mob+Violence+and+Militancy.pdf

    The guy probably needs to jump through these formalistic game theory hoops in order to get a job in the academy, these days. Quantitative and analytic political science types lord it over more verbal types.

    I see no fault in spicing the discussion up with a few quantitative models. Running with this is all fun and games and may actually lead to solid insights. This could even be reused in a forthcoming game, “Un-Civilization: Remove Ziggy From Premises”.

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    • LOL: PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    My objection is not to the use of mathematical modeling itself, but the ostentatious and excruciating attempt to make more of the applied math than necessary. The lemmas, proofs and use of set theoretic notation, and a completely unnecessary use of jacobians in the solution is just plain show-offy and detracts from the paper.

    I guess he's trying to baffle 'em.
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  121. Forbes says:
    @Anonymous

    In England for many years the powers that be took the opposite view of Hindus in India: that prosecuting even individual Muslim malefactors was to be avoided because that would stereotype the Muslim community.
     
    My theory is that the police looked the other way as a counterterrorism measure.

    As has been noted, ISIS recruits a lot of sexually frustrated Muslim males.

    So these tens of thousands of enslaved white girls are sexually satisfying literal divisions of Muslims, so they have no frustrations to channel into terrorism.

    And enforcing the law would also feed into the religious persecution => religious terrorism pipeline. (The perpetrators are very quick to bring up "racism" in the courtrooms.)

    That's a lot of bomb plots quashed. Plots that might actually affect the rich.

    Rape jihad channels bomb jihad away from the cosmopolitan upper-middle-class diversity lovers.

    If that’s the strategy, it’s a massive failure. Bus and tube bombings, and other assorted acts of terrorism have not been prevented, Britain experienced their unauthorized shopping and arson spree in 2011, meanwhile legions went off to fight with ISIS in Syria.

    A better strategy would’ve encouraged more to leave and fight with ISIS and bar the return of any survivors.

    I doubt young Muslim males get their restless anxieties sexually satisfied by groomed white girls they treat no better than dogs. Grooming girls for prostitution is a game of power and control over those so enslaved. That there’s a market for paid sex proves that there are plenty of low life losers.

    Looking the other way appears to be a result of political correctness gone haywire over so-called religious sensibilities, i.e. whites were cucked into yielding in areas where Muslims were a majority. Any attempt to claim grooming was a trade-off in a counterterrorism strategy is the worst sort of amoral historical revisionism.

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  122. @jim jones
    Britain moved all the Muslims into Pakistan and made India a viable nation

    Never touched ‘em guv.
    Jinnah browbeat the Raj into creating that Muslim heaven-on-earth Pakistan, ‘land of the pure’, even though Whitehall regarded it as a thoroughly dangerous and reckless expedient.

    Typical Hindu blame-shifting. The Muslims self-deported rather than be hacked to pieces by their fellow Desis from Ghandi’s mob, who wanted the whole lot for themselves.
    I wish to God we’d ignored them all, concentrated on fending off the Wehrmacht, and let the Japs have them in ’42. That’d larn ‘em.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    The movement of Muslims into Pakistan (and non-Muslims from Pakistan into India) was nothing to do with the Brits and everything to do with the locals, who at Partition started massacring their former neighbours and triggering mass population movements across the new borders. Many of those who moved arrived dead, as gangs on both sides of the divide stopped trains carrying refugees and murdered everyone in them.

    "I wish to God we’d ignored them all, concentrated on fending off the Wehrmacht, and let the Japs have them in ’42. That’d larn ‘em."
     
    Calcutta is full of statues of Chandra Bose, the guy who led a Japanese trained force (recruited from captured Indian prisoners of war) against the British in WWII. If he (and the Japanese) had won, given the fate of so many Chinese, I somehow doubt there would be quite so many.

    The Hindi word for India is of course Hindustan, 'the land of the Hindus'. You can hear the shouts of "Hindustan zindabad!" (long live India!) in this film of the ultra-militaristic daily border-closing ceremony at the Lahore-Amritsar crossing. Since this was filmed, both sides have increased "stadium capacity" (in India's case to 15,000-odd) and bus in schoolchildren to cheer on the troops. Imagine this at the US-Mexican or British-Irish borders!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0ue-XGl9c
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  123. Forbes says:
    @Anonymous
    Matters in Britain are complicated by the Labour Party using Britain's huge Muslim population as a vote farm. Indeed, in the near future this vote farm will be prove crucial to Labour Party political hegemony.

    Hardly any different than how Democrats use blacks in the US as a vote farm–and import Hispanics to supplement it. Tony Blair/Gordon Brown did it overtly. Obama did nothing to impede the Hispanic invasion underway.

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  124. Forbes says:
    @TTSSYF
    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It's sold to us by the media as just another one of the world's great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism, when in fact it is a religio-political system that is at odds with Western enlightenment in almost every regard. We believe in freedom of thought and speech. Muslims believe in a robotic existence where one must interrupt one's day with bending down and scraping one's head in a most undignified and ugly way to pray five times a day, intersperse conversation with constant references to Allah (PBUH) or Mohammed (PBUH), and sleep with one's head facing Mecca. Anything else is "haram". Muslims do not believe in photography, statuary, or any other kind of representational art, as that is "haram". Muslims are cruel to animals, particularly dogs, which they believe to be dirty and disgusting. Muslims do not believe that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow (what we refer to as "interest") and consider it usury. Muslims do not believe in equality of the sexes, as a Muslim man can have multiple wives as long as he "treats them fairly". Women, on the other hand, are considered inherently sinful because their exposed beauty and emotionalism lures otherwise good Muslim men into sin; hence, they must be covered. Muslim men simply cannot accept women's sexuality, even going so far as genital mutilation to try to squelch it.

    Muslims do not belong in the West, even the ones that appear to be pleasant and peaceful. It is oil and water and will lead to nothing good. I have known too many who, while they were high achievers (medical doctors, engineers, research scientists), smart, and had very witty or entertaining personalities, would on occasion allow the mask to slip and reveal intense, burning hatred for the West and Americans. These same people would relate how, when in their native country in the Middle East, the people cheered and passed out candy when the Challenger exploded, and how they would love to be able to assassinate GHWB.

    We can tolerate them in very small numbers, but should that percentage rise to some critical number (10%?), I believe we will see a very different type of collective behavior here in the U.S.

    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It’s sold to us by the media as just another one of the world’s great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism…

    You could’ve ended right there. That appears to be the extent of the average American’s exposure to Islam.

    Since–or I should say, in the aftermath of–9/11, I’ve taken it upon myself to read several works on Islam, and I’ve recommended one or two of them to others in conversation. I cannot say that I’ve run into any American that has read anything on Islam, or holds any but the most superficial PC-infused opinion about Islam. It’s rather depressing, both the lack of curiosity and the PC strictures regarding Islam.

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  125. Forbes says:
    @Shoopster
    Strongly disagree with you, Dave. Islamophobia (or anti-Muslim sentiment) absolutely causes racism. Any group that feels that it's under attack will inevitably lash out. Just look at the rise of aggressive white identity politics in the US.

    Actual evidence of Islamophobia is rather thin on the ground.

    Where are the reprisal killings? Where are the boycotts? Where is the public shaming? For that matter, where is the irrational fear of Islam?

    Re-define it as “anti-Muslim sentiment,” if you want–but that’s a con. In reality, it’s an explanation for Muslim violence excused on the rationalization that they feel under attack.

    Nice try.

    Where’s Tiny Dick…

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  126. Forbes says:
    @Shoopster
    The author of this piece presents a faulty argument and seems to be trying to justify collective violence in retaliation for acts of terror. This is a ludicrous notion and it's worth noting that Hindus in India are slowly becoming more and more fanatic, to the point where they've burned down Christian and Muslim schools over allegations of beef having been served.

    If the English had started to try and burn down Pakistani neighborhoods, do you know what would have happened? A deadly race riot.

    Though, I wonder if the author believes that collective punishment is acceptable against whites? Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white rapists being exposed?

    Shall we start murdering whites in the street in retaliation for all the white *rudeness* being exposed?

    FIFY.

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  127. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AndrewR
    I honestly didn't realize India had any Muslim communities. I figured any Muslims in India would be atomized expats. What was the point of the partition if they didn't expel all the Muslim communities?

    I honestly didn’t realize India had any Muslim communities.

    Such profound ignorance, particularly from someone with consistently stringent nationalist voice, is pretty sad. What other important and obvious facts do you not know?

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    • Troll: AndrewR
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  128. Forbes says:
    @AnotherDad
    I'm against communal violence, and the best way--*the way*--you eliminate it is to avoid "communalism", by which I mean you avoid having separate communities. This in fact is what Christianity did--mostly did--in Europe over the last 1500 or so years--suppressed tribalism.

    Yes there is unfortunate history here--the Jews were already there. Some Jews had moved into England and at the time no one was policing the border, nor would have had the longer term understanding that the Jews were going to be a non-integrable tribe as England consolidated a national identity.

    The outcome here though--for England--was very positive. Having expelled the Jews, as England developed its *own* people did the middle-man trading and bureaucratic functions and as result its population was well prepared to thrive in the age of discovery, launch the industrial revolution and build an Empire.

    In contrast the nations in the East that foolishly took in the Jews--i.e. Poland--had the Jews doing their trading and tax-farming. This was great for the Jews who underwent such a huge population expansion that they overflowed the available middle-man occupations and had to buy land and return to farming. (Ex. Fiddler on the Roof.) But this was terrible for the genetic/cultural development of those peoples, for national cohesion of those nations. And having Jewish tax-farmers over the heads of the peasantry energized ethnic antagonisms--which will always exist with separate ethnic groups anyway. The fallout from this in terms of backwardness, misery, destruction and death right on through the last century is horrific. And the toll is still rising as this history infects American politics/culture and threatens to destroy the US and the West.
    The West may simply not survive it.

    The moral is simple. You don't want communalism--don't allow separate communities. In particular keep out of your nation anyone who will be a separate community from your nation.

    Unfortunately this is precisely what the US--and the broader West--has failed to do. And its destruction looms.

    Separate countries for separate peoples. Like in commerce, there’s nothing controversial about arm’s length transactions between countries.

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  129. eah says:
    @eah
    I cannot think of anything I care to say about this topic, so...

    Happy #Thanksgiving, give thanks to our Pilgrim Fathers who withstood disease, famine, and utter savagery to build the most successful nation in the New World.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPQ3cCLUEAArnsg.jpg

    With Thanksgiving covered, here’s a Christmas Holiday shopping tip:

    link

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  130. rec1man says:
    @AndrewR
    I honestly didn't realize India had any Muslim communities. I figured any Muslims in India would be atomized expats. What was the point of the partition if they didn't expel all the Muslim communities?

    The scumbag Gandhi went on fasts to prevent the expulsion of muslims

    The Sikhs did not listen to Gandhi and eradicated all muslims in Indian East Punjab

    In residual India, Muslims went from 12.5% in 1941 to 10.4% by 1951, after partition migrations

    Since then they are doing demographic warfare and are now 17% by birth , in residual India,
    and Muslims are doing low level partitions ( no-go zones ) all over India

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  131. @G Pinfold
    The dynamic you’re talking about is all important. A certain Moldbug wrote of how Cromer kept a lid on Egypt (of all crazy places) for decades, such that no one would even imagine it was a hotbed of revolutionary activism, etc.
    South Africa in the 1970s was similar. Law and order was phenomenal, underpinned by the kind of mild terror that said ‘no good will come of being a hothead.’ All of the underlying trouble was in foment, yet it never manifested.
    Ultimately, the whites lost their resolve and the blacks seized the terror; started burning people to death in the streets for insufficient revolutionary zeal. And the rest is History.
    Back to the topic: There is nothing inevitable about History. The Boers were strong for a while but lost their mojo, and they were thoroughly white-anted too by liberal and communist whites. Someone else could in theory do better.

    Rhodesia might be ripe for recolonization.

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  132. @El Dato
    I see no fault in spicing the discussion up with a few quantitative models. Running with this is all fun and games and may actually lead to solid insights. This could even be reused in a forthcoming game, "Un-Civilization: Remove Ziggy From Premises".

    My objection is not to the use of mathematical modeling itself, but the ostentatious and excruciating attempt to make more of the applied math than necessary. The lemmas, proofs and use of set theoretic notation, and a completely unnecessary use of jacobians in the solution is just plain show-offy and detracts from the paper.

    I guess he’s trying to baffle ‘em.

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  133. vx37 says:

    Indian Ruling-Party Member Offers Bounty for Beheading of Bollywood Actress and Director Over the Movie “Padmavati”

    https://redice.tv/news/indian-ruling-party-member-offers-bounty-for-beheading-of-bollywood-actress-and-director-over-the-movie-padmavati

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    The news stories don't make it clear what the guy's objection is. Inter-religious romance, perhaps? Going by the trailer, it appears to be a CGI-heavy historical fantasy epic of some sort.

    https://youtu.be/X_5_BLt76c0

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  134. @Malla
    I think there is one more point to consider between India and Western Europe for example. The Muslims of India, at least 90% of them are genetically and culturally fully Indians. They have shared the history of the land with Hindus and Jains. Most Muslims here at one level know and realize they were Hindus once centuries ago except that they look at that era as some of 'era of darkness and false worship of idols' before they got the message of Allah via Islam, the true message of God. The rest , Ashrafi elite muslims, are Persians, Arabs, Turks, Uzbeks, Mughal/Mongols mixed with upper caste Indians. Hindu and Muslim culture are intertwined.

    That is not the case with 95% of the Muslims of Western Europe, they are outsiders residing in Europe with passports (or not). They are not genetically or culturally European. We are not dealing with real native British or French or German or Dutch White Muslims like is the case in Bosnia. They never shared the history of the land with the other Europeans, their ancestors did not fight the many European wars of the Middle ages. They cannot relate to the European civilization or the land of Europe.

    I forsee a dystopian future, a third world Europe full of brown Muslims and non muslim brown minorities having many riots. The great buildings of Europe, ruins after looting and destruction by riots by the brown hordes in some past. Chinese and rich Hindu arrogant tourists galore around these ruins paying extra for security from the local thugs. Just like how the ruins of Egypt were once full of European tourists once among local people who had no emotional conncetion to those ruins. The natives of Europe, long extinct, 'official history' still calls them evil and their destruction the victory of good over evil just as official 'history' considers the French and Russian revolutions as good revolutions. Yes, Whites will still be called 'evil' even after they sacrifice themselves with their moral superiority and disappear. Is it unfair? Of course it is, right has become wrong and wrong has become right. But the Zio Globalists have framed it that way and the brown black masses, ever jealous of the White world, full of hatred and envy have lapped up the narrative with relish. There are a few browns who suspect that the official history is wrong, it is the moral ones who became extinct but they would rather ignore it and believe the official narrative as they are survivalists and survivalists are always right no matter what they do. Maybe some East Asian historians will write down what really happened.
    In North America, maybe the only surviving Whites, the Mormons live in reservations and Chinese and rich arrogant Indian tourists will go to see them, as tourists now a days go and see the Masai of Kenya. That is the future it seems.
    But India will be full of Hindus farting loud and proud.

    In India, the Muslim TFR is much higher then the Dharmic TFR, the Muslim population as a percentage has increased since by quite a bit since independence. Should this continue, they will become the majority and the Hindus will be on the receiving end of mob violence. Violence begets violence.The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Based on this news report on census figures, I don't see Muslims outnumbering Hindus in India for another couple of centuries, if at all.

    The demographic math just isn't there.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Muslim-population-growth-slows/article10336665.ece

    , @rec1man
    Not true, in Kerala, Muslims are the richest, most educated and have the biggest tfr gap

    In Kerala, Muslims have gone from 17% in 1951 to 42% by birth today, despite never having BJP regime, 99% literacy, rich from gulf jobs

    In Assam and West Bengal, the Muslim rise is mainly due to 15 million illegal Bangladeshi muslims imported for a vote bank by anti-bjp congress and commies
    , @Malla

    The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.
     
    Good point.
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  135. @vx37
    Indian Ruling-Party Member Offers Bounty for Beheading of Bollywood Actress and Director Over the Movie "Padmavati”

    https://redice.tv/news/indian-ruling-party-member-offers-bounty-for-beheading-of-bollywood-actress-and-director-over-the-movie-padmavati

    The news stories don’t make it clear what the guy’s objection is. Inter-religious romance, perhaps? Going by the trailer, it appears to be a CGI-heavy historical fantasy epic of some sort.

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    • Replies: @rec1man
    Padmavathi was the queen of a hindu Rajput king , around 1300 AD ;

    The Sultan of Delhi , Alauddin Khilji, besieged her fort to grab her into his harem

    When defeat looked inevitable, she commited Jauhar (Sati ), than fall into his islamic harem

    This is widely known in India, as well as the Alamo defeat in the USA

    The film director, a leftist hindu, spun the script to show a love affair between Khilji and Padmavathi
    and that infuriated a lot of hindus from the Rajput caste
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  136. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The Indian Hindus take no sh** from Muslims at all. And Muslims KNOW this. So they don’t get out of line.

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  137. rec1man says:
    @PiltdownMan
    The news stories don't make it clear what the guy's objection is. Inter-religious romance, perhaps? Going by the trailer, it appears to be a CGI-heavy historical fantasy epic of some sort.

    https://youtu.be/X_5_BLt76c0

    Padmavathi was the queen of a hindu Rajput king , around 1300 AD ;

    The Sultan of Delhi , Alauddin Khilji, besieged her fort to grab her into his harem

    When defeat looked inevitable, she commited Jauhar (Sati ), than fall into his islamic harem

    This is widely known in India, as well as the Alamo defeat in the USA

    The film director, a leftist hindu, spun the script to show a love affair between Khilji and Padmavathi
    and that infuriated a lot of hindus from the Rajput caste

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Ok, I've been reading up on this since I posted.

    While the siege you mention was indeed historical fact, the queen appears to be a literary fiction, the lead character in what appears to be a rather interesting epic poem written in the 1500s, two hundred years after the siege. I wonder if there's an English translation?

    Are these guys getting exercised about a fictional movie retelling of the story of a character who was fictional in the first place?
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  138. It seems like England ought to be able to find some compromise path between the BJP view of punish all Muslims (effective as it may be) and the BBC view of punish no Muslims (ineffective as it always is) such as, I dunno, rule of law and punishment of the guilty.

    The English punished all pistol owners in 1997. (All but the one they should have, a Scot.)

    So there’s precedent.

    Read More
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  139. @rec1man
    Padmavathi was the queen of a hindu Rajput king , around 1300 AD ;

    The Sultan of Delhi , Alauddin Khilji, besieged her fort to grab her into his harem

    When defeat looked inevitable, she commited Jauhar (Sati ), than fall into his islamic harem

    This is widely known in India, as well as the Alamo defeat in the USA

    The film director, a leftist hindu, spun the script to show a love affair between Khilji and Padmavathi
    and that infuriated a lot of hindus from the Rajput caste

    Ok, I’ve been reading up on this since I posted.

    While the siege you mention was indeed historical fact, the queen appears to be a literary fiction, the lead character in what appears to be a rather interesting epic poem written in the 1500s, two hundred years after the siege. I wonder if there’s an English translation?

    Are these guys getting exercised about a fictional movie retelling of the story of a character who was fictional in the first place?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Imagine a film about Lady Godiva as a nympho exhibitionist. Not fun, right?
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  140. @Third world nationalist
    In India, the Muslim TFR is much higher then the Dharmic TFR, the Muslim population as a percentage has increased since by quite a bit since independence. Should this continue, they will become the majority and the Hindus will be on the receiving end of mob violence. Violence begets violence.The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.

    Based on this news report on census figures, I don’t see Muslims outnumbering Hindus in India for another couple of centuries, if at all.

    The demographic math just isn’t there.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Muslim-population-growth-slows/article10336665.ece

    Read More
    • Replies: @Third world nationalist
    The Muslims went from 9 percent at indepedence to 15 percent today, about 1 percent per decade. While they may not be the outright majority for a long time, in certain areas like kerala they are on the verge of overtaking Hindus. Hindus and Christians there have a fertility of 1.7 while the Musliim fertility is 2.9.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kerala
    Check out the live birth by percentages.

    Europe is in a much better shape regarding the differntial in fertility, where we see migrants converge to the native norm.
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  141. Escher says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    The problem isn't Islam. The problem is Arabs. Turns out people with an IQ of just north of 80 aren't compatible with Western society.

    However since our leaders took power by telling everyone intelligence doesn't exist because it makes people feel sad, they are unable to deal with this.

    Disagree. The problem is the corrupting influence of Wahabi Islam. Muslim countries in Africa and South East Asia used to be relatively secular and peaceful before the Saudis started funding Jihad-preaching mosques and Imams.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    The grooming gangs aren't Wahabi. We are screwed without the fanatics; the fanatics just make things obvious.
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  142. @PiltdownMan
    Based on this news report on census figures, I don't see Muslims outnumbering Hindus in India for another couple of centuries, if at all.

    The demographic math just isn't there.

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/Muslim-population-growth-slows/article10336665.ece

    The Muslims went from 9 percent at indepedence to 15 percent today, about 1 percent per decade. While they may not be the outright majority for a long time, in certain areas like kerala they are on the verge of overtaking Hindus. Hindus and Christians there have a fertility of 1.7 while the Musliim fertility is 2.9.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kerala

    Check out the live birth by percentages.

    Europe is in a much better shape regarding the differntial in fertility, where we see migrants converge to the native norm.

    Read More
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  143. … in certain areas like kerala they are on the verge of overtaking Hindus.

    From that link,

    Kerala is home to 2.76% of India’s people… Kerala’s population growth rate is far lower than the national average.

    The link also notes that Kerala has the lowest TFR in India, that the population grew by about 2 million in a decade and that Muslims emigrate in greater numbers than Hindus.

    It seems to me that Kerala’s population dynamics are irrelevant to the big picture of an India of 1.3 billion people.

    Read More
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  144. @vx37
    brought in after WW II to work in dying industries (like textiles)

    Don't know for sure, but I doubt it. I'm guessing that the majority came in long after those industries were defunct. Most have probably come in since the '90s, not for economic reasons but because of the media-enforced religious fanaticism that has seized our leaders. Essentially white-hating racism. There was no practical or economic reason for Merkel to bring in a million invaders, she was virtue signalling to her peers and coreligionists with a vast act of charity. Unfortunately what she is giving away doesn't belong to her, but that too is a virtue in this new religion.

    Islam and Christianity are proxies for race in the modern leftist dominated society. You never see lefties attacking non-white Christian churches, and the only value that Islam has for the left is that they are are overwhelmingly not white and are destructive to the white societies they are being imported into. The crimes they commit against the natives are more racial hate crimes than religious ones. The left will support even Islam because they don't really care what comes after, they just want you dead.

    There were some guest workers brought in post WW II, I’ve read about it.

    But they became a really obnoxious presence after even more were let in by idiot politicians. The existing ones were permitted to bring their whole village clans in. “Family reunification”.

    Merkel then just piled on more problems by adding to them.

    Future generations will curse our leaders.

    For the life of me, I can’t figure out her reasoning. Virtue signalling to who?

    Public opinion had started to shift against it by 2015. In the 1990s, before the Internet got really going, there was no organized opposition to mass immigration.

    There might have been some opposition but the general public had no way of locating information about it pre-Internet.

    Read More
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  145. @Fredrik
    On the other hand the individual Muslims are much better off in the West than in their homelands. Somehow that doesn't count. It isn't surprising because at least the children born in the West will compare themselves to locals and not the cousins back home. Obviously this is another argument to keep them out.

    And then the daughters become too Westernized and want to finish school like the neighbor girls instead of marrying a cousin three times their age, so Daddy has to kill them while Mummy hold them down.

    Read More
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  146. @RadicalCenter
    Muslims in the USA may earn above-average salaries / wages, I’ll be interested to check ... but they also have more children on average than white Americans, at least three kids as opposed to just under two kids.

    Just one additional child in government school (“public” school) for one year costs fed and state/local taxpayers at least TEN grand per kid in California, $12 k in New Jersey, and TWENTY grand per kid in New York, three populous States where a disproportionate share of US Muslims live.

    One must offset the hefty property taxes that people in those States pay, of course, especially New Jersey.

    Yes, large families are a form of jihad.

    Read More
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  147. rec1man says:
    @Third world nationalist
    In India, the Muslim TFR is much higher then the Dharmic TFR, the Muslim population as a percentage has increased since by quite a bit since independence. Should this continue, they will become the majority and the Hindus will be on the receiving end of mob violence. Violence begets violence.The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.

    Not true, in Kerala, Muslims are the richest, most educated and have the biggest tfr gap

    In Kerala, Muslims have gone from 17% in 1951 to 42% by birth today, despite never having BJP regime, 99% literacy, rich from gulf jobs

    In Assam and West Bengal, the Muslim rise is mainly due to 15 million illegal Bangladeshi muslims imported for a vote bank by anti-bjp congress and commies

    Read More
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  148. rec1man says:

    Myanmar shows this strategy carried to its logical end vs Rohingya

    State sponsored reprisals and ethnic cleansing in reply to jihad

    No muslims = No jihad

    Read More
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  149. @TTSSYF
    I think the average American is woefully ignorant of Islam. It's sold to us by the media as just another one of the world's great religions, right up there with Christianity and Judaism, when in fact it is a religio-political system that is at odds with Western enlightenment in almost every regard. We believe in freedom of thought and speech. Muslims believe in a robotic existence where one must interrupt one's day with bending down and scraping one's head in a most undignified and ugly way to pray five times a day, intersperse conversation with constant references to Allah (PBUH) or Mohammed (PBUH), and sleep with one's head facing Mecca. Anything else is "haram". Muslims do not believe in photography, statuary, or any other kind of representational art, as that is "haram". Muslims are cruel to animals, particularly dogs, which they believe to be dirty and disgusting. Muslims do not believe that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow (what we refer to as "interest") and consider it usury. Muslims do not believe in equality of the sexes, as a Muslim man can have multiple wives as long as he "treats them fairly". Women, on the other hand, are considered inherently sinful because their exposed beauty and emotionalism lures otherwise good Muslim men into sin; hence, they must be covered. Muslim men simply cannot accept women's sexuality, even going so far as genital mutilation to try to squelch it.

    Muslims do not belong in the West, even the ones that appear to be pleasant and peaceful. It is oil and water and will lead to nothing good. I have known too many who, while they were high achievers (medical doctors, engineers, research scientists), smart, and had very witty or entertaining personalities, would on occasion allow the mask to slip and reveal intense, burning hatred for the West and Americans. These same people would relate how, when in their native country in the Middle East, the people cheered and passed out candy when the Challenger exploded, and how they would love to be able to assassinate GHWB.

    We can tolerate them in very small numbers, but should that percentage rise to some critical number (10%?), I believe we will see a very different type of collective behavior here in the U.S.

    In what way is “Judaism” one of the worlds great religions?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Ten Commandments, Psalms, Genealogy of Jesus.
    Note that when women are singled out for mention, it's usually because they were dodgy in some way, i.e., Rahab, Ruth, and Tamar
    God uses all sorts of people for his purposes.
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  150. Every exploding Mohamed should be followed by a droned Mosque.

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  151. @Escher
    Disagree. The problem is the corrupting influence of Wahabi Islam. Muslim countries in Africa and South East Asia used to be relatively secular and peaceful before the Saudis started funding Jihad-preaching mosques and Imams.

    The grooming gangs aren’t Wahabi. We are screwed without the fanatics; the fanatics just make things obvious.

    Read More
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  152. @Anon

    Spencer’s get together in Washington was outnumbered between 5-1 and 10-1 by the Bronie convention that was occurring in the city at the same time.
     
    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he's a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.

    Look up the polling statistics on approval of interracial marriage.
     
    Meanwhile there's little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).

    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he’s a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.

    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.

    Meanwhile there’s little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).

    Then name a better metric we have data for. Disapproval of interracial marriage is tied to having healthy racial views; what other criteria do you have to track that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.
     
    Repeat After Me: You'll never show White America that Hitler (whose regime declared war on Slavs and massacred them) dindu nuffin.
    , @Anon

    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.
     
    Repeat After Me: You'll never show White America that Hitler (whose regime declared war on Slavs and massacred them while allying with the Japs) dendu nuffin.

    Then name a better metric we have data for. Disapproval of interracial marriage is tied to having healthy racial views; what other criteria do you have to track that.
     
    It's called virtue signalling.
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  153. rec1man says:

    https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/kerala-s-malappuram-district-is-against-measles-rubella-vaccine-and-here-s-why-it-s-dangerous-334362.html

    In 80% Muslim majority district of Kerala, 95% literate

    Hindu / Xtian nurses giving vaccination are attacked by muslim mobs, brainwashed against vaccines

    In this state BJP is weak ,and is ruled by pro-muslim congress and commies

    Read More
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  154. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @PiltdownMan
    Ok, I've been reading up on this since I posted.

    While the siege you mention was indeed historical fact, the queen appears to be a literary fiction, the lead character in what appears to be a rather interesting epic poem written in the 1500s, two hundred years after the siege. I wonder if there's an English translation?

    Are these guys getting exercised about a fictional movie retelling of the story of a character who was fictional in the first place?

    Imagine a film about Lady Godiva as a nympho exhibitionist. Not fun, right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Wrong. Fun.

    The English are hardly likely to call for an actress to be beheaded because she starred in a porn movie about Lady Godiva.

    Hindu Rajputs sound exactly like a Muslim honor culture that kills its women for being "shameless."

    What this reminds me of is Britain's long experience in India with the natives getting restless over some wacky rumor being spread in the bazaars and alleyways of their villages.

    Have you, or has anyone other than the movie maker, actually seen the movie or a synopsis of the plot line?

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  155. @Bill Jones
    In what way is "Judaism" one of the worlds great religions?

    Ten Commandments, Psalms, Genealogy of Jesus.
    Note that when women are singled out for mention, it’s usually because they were dodgy in some way, i.e., Rahab, Ruth, and Tamar
    God uses all sorts of people for his purposes.

    Read More
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  156. Yak-15 says:
    @biz
    Ah yes, the poverty theory of Muslim misbehavior. Suffers from the defect that it is contradicted by all of the available evidence. I'll start the list to give a taste but I'm not in the mood to finish it:

    Jihadi John: Masters in Comp Sci from LSE
    Doctors plot: Name says it all
    Nidal Hasan: MD with comfortable lifestyle
    San Bernardino couple: Earning $70,000 one year out of undergrad
    9/11 hijackers: More Masters degrees in Engineering than I care to count
    Bin Laden: one of the richest men in the world
    and so on

    It’s important that you apply your narrative more selectively. I was writing about the mindless violence of masses of inbred, low-IQ Muslims causing social problems in host nations. Your writing about strategically inspired people acting out their hate of US foreign policy. They are different and the remedies for each are somewhat different. But, in both cases, stop their entrance, radically assimilate those who offer upside, deport the rest.

    Read More
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  157. BB753 says:
    @Samuel Skinner
    The problem isn't Islam. The problem is Arabs. Turns out people with an IQ of just north of 80 aren't compatible with Western society.

    However since our leaders took power by telling everyone intelligence doesn't exist because it makes people feel sad, they are unable to deal with this.

    You’re mistaken. It’s indeed Islam that’s at fault. That Muslims are almost universally dim only makes matters worse.
    Just show me a country where Muslims and other religions /ethnic groups coexist peacefully!
    Islam, by its very nature, wants to dominate, submit every non-Muslim or convert them by force. That’s why there are two only possible ways to deal with Muslims: deportation (Myanmar) or using the big stick (India, Russia).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    No doubt, Islam is a problem on it's own but we cannot deny the racial aspects as well. In my opinion, brown black underclasses cannot live in White or East Asian societies peacefully. The high IQ black brown populations on the other hand can be divided into those who are friendly towards Whites and East Asians (about say 10%) and those who are antagonistic towards the White/Yellow host populations. The antagonistic high IQ brown blacks tend to have this combination of superiority and inferiority complex feelings all at once, are corrupt and nepotist and even if they are high on IQ they may be low on the morality or character scale. They do not show their hatred openly and keep it under covers. After all, for Middle class populations, mindless street level violence comes with many costs (loss of reputation or job, surviving jails full of thugs) as compared to the lower classes, they have more impulse control and have the ability to think of long term consequences. Many Whites/Yellows get fooled by that. Islam just makes things worse. The muslim underclasses in say Britain or France use Islam as a rallying point to vent heir hatred towards the White society around them. They should not have been brought into a first world anyways and their taste in culture and basic nature is very different from that of the culture of cold climate populations of the north.

    I was listening to this interview of this French guy on a Hungarian television program and he said that the early North African/ black immigrants were into US style gangsta rap culture but with time turned to fundamentalist Wahabi Islam. In other words before fundamentalist Islam took over their neighbourhoods, they already had a anti-White, Anti-native, anti-France tendencies. Leftist idiots may identify the main source of these tendencies as poverty but I think the real reason is that underclass Black browns cannot stand traditional or even some aspects of modern White or East Asian culture, it goes against their very being. They may accept some of it in small doses like they did during the times of the colonial empires but not full blast when they are in a White country in a sea of White people.

    I also remember a North African girl who was born in France but living in the UK telling me that when her Francophone well educated Algerian Muslim doctor father had come to France decades ago, he steered clear of the low IQ underclass North Africans and preferred to mix more with the native French and he had no problem in doing so i.e. he hardly faced any racism. He was a loose Muslim but believed in Allah and went to a mosque on some days like Id. Already then, he had realized that allowing so many underclass North Africans into France would end in disaster one day. Most White French were too naive about it, according to him. He is an example of those 10% high IQ immigrant I am talking about.

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  158. @Anon
    Imagine a film about Lady Godiva as a nympho exhibitionist. Not fun, right?

    Wrong. Fun.

    The English are hardly likely to call for an actress to be beheaded because she starred in a porn movie about Lady Godiva.

    Hindu Rajputs sound exactly like a Muslim honor culture that kills its women for being “shameless.”

    What this reminds me of is Britain’s long experience in India with the natives getting restless over some wacky rumor being spread in the bazaars and alleyways of their villages.

    Have you, or has anyone other than the movie maker, actually seen the movie or a synopsis of the plot line?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malla
    Yeah, some of these street level Hinduvadi crackpots are just as crazy as Muslim fundamentalists. Hinduism has a violent side but still pales in comparison to the violent nature of Islam. I am not saying Islam is necessarily violent and that Islam does not have a philosophical, intellectual side. Islam has positive side things to it but when it gets violent, it outdoes Hinduism or Christianity with ease.
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  159. Malla says:
    @Third world nationalist
    In India, the Muslim TFR is much higher then the Dharmic TFR, the Muslim population as a percentage has increased since by quite a bit since independence. Should this continue, they will become the majority and the Hindus will be on the receiving end of mob violence. Violence begets violence.The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.

    The indian strategy of keeping the Muslims poor and marginalized is back firing in the long run, since poor socially excluded people produce a ton of kids.

    The Russian strategy is much better in the long run. To develop their Muslim regions and hence there is a convergence in fertility.

    Good point.

    Read More
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  160. Malla says:
    @PiltdownMan
    Wrong. Fun.

    The English are hardly likely to call for an actress to be beheaded because she starred in a porn movie about Lady Godiva.

    Hindu Rajputs sound exactly like a Muslim honor culture that kills its women for being "shameless."

    What this reminds me of is Britain's long experience in India with the natives getting restless over some wacky rumor being spread in the bazaars and alleyways of their villages.

    Have you, or has anyone other than the movie maker, actually seen the movie or a synopsis of the plot line?

    Yeah, some of these street level Hinduvadi crackpots are just as crazy as Muslim fundamentalists. Hinduism has a violent side but still pales in comparison to the violent nature of Islam. I am not saying Islam is necessarily violent and that Islam does not have a philosophical, intellectual side. Islam has positive side things to it but when it gets violent, it outdoes Hinduism or Christianity with ease.

    Read More
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  161. Malla says:
    @BB753
    You're mistaken. It's indeed Islam that's at fault. That Muslims are almost universally dim only makes matters worse.
    Just show me a country where Muslims and other religions /ethnic groups coexist peacefully!
    Islam, by its very nature, wants to dominate, submit every non-Muslim or convert them by force. That's why there are two only possible ways to deal with Muslims: deportation (Myanmar) or using the big stick (India, Russia).

    No doubt, Islam is a problem on it’s own but we cannot deny the racial aspects as well. In my opinion, brown black underclasses cannot live in White or East Asian societies peacefully. The high IQ black brown populations on the other hand can be divided into those who are friendly towards Whites and East Asians (about say 10%) and those who are antagonistic towards the White/Yellow host populations. The antagonistic high IQ brown blacks tend to have this combination of superiority and inferiority complex feelings all at once, are corrupt and nepotist and even if they are high on IQ they may be low on the morality or character scale. They do not show their hatred openly and keep it under covers. After all, for Middle class populations, mindless street level violence comes with many costs (loss of reputation or job, surviving jails full of thugs) as compared to the lower classes, they have more impulse control and have the ability to think of long term consequences. Many Whites/Yellows get fooled by that. Islam just makes things worse. The muslim underclasses in say Britain or France use Islam as a rallying point to vent heir hatred towards the White society around them. They should not have been brought into a first world anyways and their taste in culture and basic nature is very different from that of the culture of cold climate populations of the north.

    I was listening to this interview of this French guy on a Hungarian television program and he said that the early North African/ black immigrants were into US style gangsta rap culture but with time turned to fundamentalist Wahabi Islam. In other words before fundamentalist Islam took over their neighbourhoods, they already had a anti-White, Anti-native, anti-France tendencies. Leftist idiots may identify the main source of these tendencies as poverty but I think the real reason is that underclass Black browns cannot stand traditional or even some aspects of modern White or East Asian culture, it goes against their very being. They may accept some of it in small doses like they did during the times of the colonial empires but not full blast when they are in a White country in a sea of White people.

    I also remember a North African girl who was born in France but living in the UK telling me that when her Francophone well educated Algerian Muslim doctor father had come to France decades ago, he steered clear of the low IQ underclass North Africans and preferred to mix more with the native French and he had no problem in doing so i.e. he hardly faced any racism. He was a loose Muslim but believed in Allah and went to a mosque on some days like Id. Already then, he had realized that allowing so many underclass North Africans into France would end in disaster one day. Most White French were too naive about it, according to him. He is an example of those 10% high IQ immigrant I am talking about.

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  162. NickG says:
    @TTSSYF
    I think it is because we assume we can reason with them...that they will be persuaded by our good will, fair play, and logical arguments. It's the same sort of phenomenon you see with bleeding heart Leftists (e.g., Norman Mailer) who think they can reform a cold-blooded murderer (Jack Henry Abbott) by earnest conversation.

    I think it is because we assume we can reason with them…that they will be persuaded by our good will, fair play, and logical arguments. It’s the same sort of phenomenon you see with bleeding heart Leftists (e.g., Norman Mailer) who think they can reform a cold-blooded murderer (Jack Henry Abbott) by earnest conversation.

    It’s ironic that this is redolent of a mind-numbing lack of empathy.

    It’s ironic because of the patronising sanctimony, underpinned by ostentatious status posturing and virtue signaling with which such views are proffered.

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  163. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Samuel Skinner

    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he’s a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.
     
    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.

    Meanwhile there’s little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).
     
    Then name a better metric we have data for. Disapproval of interracial marriage is tied to having healthy racial views; what other criteria do you have to track that.

    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.

    Repeat After Me: You’ll never show White America that Hitler (whose regime declared war on Slavs and massacred them) dindu nuffin.

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  164. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Samuel Skinner

    Tell us more on how a closet homosexual who pretends he’s a comic book supervillain that advocates an European Superstate and hangs out with a Slant-Eyed Harlot (Tia Tequila) while making Nazi salutes in public is a respectable figure for White Interests.
     
    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.

    Meanwhile there’s little evidence of an actual significant rise in interracial marriage and breeding as far as Whites are concerned (accounting for how White countries have long had the degenerates and social rejects who would latch onto foreigners).
     
    Then name a better metric we have data for. Disapproval of interracial marriage is tied to having healthy racial views; what other criteria do you have to track that.

    Then name a larger and better pro-white organization.

    Repeat After Me: You’ll never show White America that Hitler (whose regime declared war on Slavs and massacred them while allying with the Japs) dendu nuffin.

    Then name a better metric we have data for. Disapproval of interracial marriage is tied to having healthy racial views; what other criteria do you have to track that.

    It’s called virtue signalling.

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  165. Sir / Madam,

    Andrew James Loan Company. Our companies grant loan to both corporate and private entities at a low interest rate of 3% interest rate. The terms are very flexible and interesting.

    Kindly get back if you have projects that need funding for further discussion and negotiation via email: quickloanpayment@gmail.com

    Regards,
    Andrew James

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  166. @Expletive Deleted
    Never touched 'em guv.
    Jinnah browbeat the Raj into creating that Muslim heaven-on-earth Pakistan, 'land of the pure', even though Whitehall regarded it as a thoroughly dangerous and reckless expedient.

    Typical Hindu blame-shifting. The Muslims self-deported rather than be hacked to pieces by their fellow Desis from Ghandi's mob, who wanted the whole lot for themselves.
    I wish to God we'd ignored them all, concentrated on fending off the Wehrmacht, and let the Japs have them in '42. That'd larn 'em.

    The movement of Muslims into Pakistan (and non-Muslims from Pakistan into India) was nothing to do with the Brits and everything to do with the locals, who at Partition started massacring their former neighbours and triggering mass population movements across the new borders. Many of those who moved arrived dead, as gangs on both sides of the divide stopped trains carrying refugees and murdered everyone in them.

    “I wish to God we’d ignored them all, concentrated on fending off the Wehrmacht, and let the Japs have them in ’42. That’d larn ‘em.”

    Calcutta is full of statues of Chandra Bose, the guy who led a Japanese trained force (recruited from captured Indian prisoners of war) against the British in WWII. If he (and the Japanese) had won, given the fate of so many Chinese, I somehow doubt there would be quite so many.

    The Hindi word for India is of course Hindustan, ‘the land of the Hindus’. You can hear the shouts of “Hindustan zindabad!” (long live India!) in this film of the ultra-militaristic daily border-closing ceremony at the Lahore-Amritsar crossing. Since this was filmed, both sides have increased “stadium capacity” (in India’s case to 15,000-odd) and bus in schoolchildren to cheer on the troops. Imagine this at the US-Mexican or British-Irish borders!

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  167. Malla says:

    Imagine this at the US-Mexican or British-Irish borders!

    I am imagining it and it is great. I wish it were true. Lots of cool mariachi bands vs Country music bands and Riverdancers and Morris Dancers/ Cali dancers fighting it out with bagpipes all around.

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