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How Many Would Emigrate?
Almost 7 billion people live in countries poorer than U.S., 6 billion in countries poorer than Puerto Rico
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SevenBillion3d-g

Out of the 187 countries represented by spheres, highlighted countries from bottom left to top right include: Pakistan is the pink sphere, Nigeria black, India indigo, Indonesia dark red, China mint green, Brazil blue, Mexico brown, Poland purple, UK yellow, Germany green, and USA red-white-and-blue red.

It’s hard for Westerners to grasp how many people there are in the rest of the world, which is why we often treat frivolously data points that ought to be thought-provoking, such as the Gallup Poll’s finding that 640,000,000 adults want to immigrate. To increase awareness, here’s a graph I’ve created based on the International Monetary Fund estimates for 2015. It shows that almost seven billion people live in countries with lower per capita GDPs than America’s $56,000 (red sphere), most of them much lower.

On the vertical axis is GDP per capita (PPP), while on the horizontal axis is the cumulative world population at that GDP level or lower.

Each country’s population is proportional to the area of its disk.

The IMF doesn’t break out data for Puerto Rico, but it would fall on this graph between Mexico and Germany. One estimate of its per capita GDP is $29,529, while another is $34,938 (due to massive subsidies since the 1950s intended to persuade Puerto Ricans to stay home). In either case, over six billion people live in countries with lower per capita GDP’s than Puerto Rico. Yet, somewhere around 5/8ths to 2/3rds of all Puerto Ricans now live in the Fifty States.

And they’re still coming.

Poland, with a slightly lower GDP than Puerto Rico, represents a non-impoverished country that has been flooding wealthy London with jobseekers who underbid from Brits from the North. With Poland at least there’s some hope that the immigrants might actually return home someday. In contrast, nobody (except Puerto Ricans) seems to think Puerto Ricans will ever go home.

But the take-away lesson is that six billion people live in countries poorer than Poland and Puerto Rico.

By the way, Qatar, host of the 2022 World Cup, is literally off the chart at $144k per capita GDP, by far the highest in the world in the IMF tables. If helping out refugee Arabs is the world’s highest priority, why hasn’t the 2022 World Cup in Qatar been moved (to, say, 2010 host South Africa) and the $200 billion Qatar had budgeted to throw itself a party been freed up to help Qatar’s fellow Arabs and Muslims?

Under the fold is the data for this graph (downloaded from the IMF):


Country GDP Per Cap K Population (Mil) Cumulative Pop
Central African Rep. $1 5 5
Dem. Rep. of Congo $1 82 86
Malawi $1 18 105
Liberia $1 4 109
Burundi $1 9 118
Niger $1 18 136
Eritrea $1 7 143
Mozambique $1 27 170
Guinea $1 12 182
Guinea-Bissau $1 2 183
Madagascar $1 24 208
Togo $2 7 215
Comoros $2 1 216
Ethiopia $2 93 308
Burkina Faso $2 18 326
Kiribati $2 0 327
Sierra Leone $2 6 333
Rwanda $2 11 344
Mali $2 16 361
Haiti $2 11 371
Solomon Islands $2 1 372
Benin $2 11 383
Afghanistan $2 32 415
Uganda $2 39 454
Zimbabwe $2 13 467
South Sudan $2 12 479
Senegal $2 15 494
Vanuatu $2 0 494
Nepal $2 28 523
Tajikistan $3 8 531
Chad $3 12 543
Tanzania $3 49 592
Papua New Guinea $3 8 600
Lesotho $3 2 602
Micronesia $3 0 602
Cameroon $3 23 625
Djibouti $3 1 626
Kenya $3 44 670
São Tomé $3 0 670
Côte d’Ivoire $3 23 693
Marshall Islands $3 0 693
Tuvalu $3 0 693
Kyrgyz Republic $3 6 699
Cambodia $3 16 715
Bangladesh $4 160 875
Yemen $4 28 903
Ghana $4 27 930
Zambia $4 16 945
Sudan $4 38 984
Mauritania $4 4 987
Honduras $5 8 996
Pakistan $5 190 1,186
Nicaragua $5 6 1,192
Moldova $5 4 1,196
Tonga $5 0 1,196
Myanmar $5 52 1,248
Lao P.D.R. $5 7 1,255
Timor-Leste $5 1 1,256
Samoa $5 0 1,256
Uzbekistan $6 31 1,287
Vietnam $6 92 1,379
Nigeria $6 179 1,557
India $6 1,276 2,834
Bolivia $6 11 2,845
Cabo Verde $6 1 2,846
Republic of Congo $7 4 2,850
Guyana $7 1 2,851
Philippines $7 101 2,952
Armenia $7 3 2,956
Angola $7 25 2,981
Guatemala $8 16 2,997
Georgia $8 4 3,001
Swaziland $8 1 3,002
Morocco $8 34 3,036
Bhutan $8 1 3,037
El Salvador $8 6 3,043
Ukraine $8 43 3,086
Belize $8 0 3,086
Fiji $9 1 3,087
Paraguay $9 7 3,094
Jamaica $9 3 3,097
Bosnia $10 4 3,101
Sri Lanka $11 21 3,122
St. Vincent $11 0 3,122
Indonesia $11 255 3,377
Dominica $11 0 3,377
Egypt $11 88 3,466
Namibia $11 2 3,468
Ecuador $11 16 3,484
Tunisia $12 11 3,495
St. Lucia $12 0 3,495
Albania $12 3 3,498
Peru $12 32 3,530
Jordan $12 7 3,537
Grenada $12 0 3,537
Mongolia $12 3 3,540
South Africa $13 55 3,595
Serbia $13 7 3,602
Dominican Rep. $14 11 3,613
China $14 1,375 4,988
Colombia $14 48 5,036
FYR Macedonia $14 2 5,038
Iraq $14 37 5,075
Algeria $14 39 5,114
Thailand $15 69 5,183
Maldives $15 0 5,184
Turkmenistan $15 6 5,189
Costa Rica $15 5 5,194
Montenegro $16 1 5,195
Brazil $16 204 5,399
Libya $16 6 5,406
Venezuela $16 31 5,437
Barbados $16 0 5,437
Palau $17 0 5,437
Botswana $17 2 5,439
Suriname $17 1 5,440
Iran $17 79 5,519
Azerbaijan $18 9 5,528
Belarus $18 9 5,537
Bulgaria $18 7 5,545
Mexico $18 121 5,666
Lebanon $18 5 5,670
Mauritius $19 1 5,672
Turkey $20 78 5,749
Panama $20 4 5,753
Romania $21 20 5,773
Croatia $21 4 5,777
Uruguay $21 3 5,781
St. Kitts and Nevis $22 0 5,781
Argentina $22 42 5,823
Antigua $23 0 5,823
Chile $24 18 5,841
Gabon $24 2 5,843
Russia $24 144 5,987
Kazakhstan $24 18 6,004
Latvia $25 2 6,006
The Bahamas $26 0 6,007
Malaysia $26 31 6,038
Hungary $26 10 6,047
Poland $26 38 6,085
Seychelles $26 0 6,085
Greece $27 11 6,096
Equatorial Guinea $27 1 6,097
Portugal $28 10 6,108
Estonia $28 1 6,109
Lithuania $28 3 6,112
Slovak Republic $29 5 6,117
Slovenia $31 2 6,119
Cyprus $31 1 6,120
Czech Republic $31 11 6,131
Trinidad $33 1 6,132
Israel $33 8 6,141
Malta $35 0 6,141
Spain $35 46 6,187
Italy $36 60 6,248
New Zealand $36 5 6,252
Korea $37 51 6,303
Japan $38 127 6,430
Oman $41 4 6,434
United Kingdom $41 65 6,499
Finland $41 6 6,504
France $41 64 6,568
Belgium $44 11 6,580
Iceland $45 0 6,580
Denmark $45 6 6,586
Canada $46 36 6,621
Germany $47 81 6,703
Austria $47 9 6,711
Sweden $47 10 6,721
Australia $48 24 6,745
Taiwan $48 23 6,769
Netherlands $48 17 6,786
Ireland $51 5 6,790
Bahrain $53 1 6,791
Saudi Arabia $53 31 6,823
United States $56 321 7,144
Hong Kong SAR $56 7 7,151
Switzerland $59 8 7,160
San Marino $62 0 7,160
United Arab Emirates $65 10 7,169
Norway $67 5 7,174
Kuwait $71 4 7,178
Brunei Darussalam $72 0 7,179
Singapore $85 6 7,184
Luxembourg $93 1 7,185
Qatar $144 2 7,187
Syria
The Gambia
Kosovo
EndFragment
 
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  1. Escher says:

    Want to immigrate to Germany? Petition the U.S. President to invade your country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    That's pretty similar to the plot of The Mouse That Roared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYMuJDajujc
    , @GW
    When did we invade Syria?
    , @Bill B.
    You are all push and no pull.

    Most are men, many appear to have greater access to financial resources than people in the Balkans, although many are also from Kosovo, many tear up their id to obscure their motivation.

    Merkel's arrogant reasoning that in order save Europe it is necessary to destroy it has certain precedents in German History.

    There is a debate now over whether Germany is hard-wired to arrogantly assume it's the boss or whether it suffers recurring fits of federalism dressed as altruism.

    This conclusion from the below therefore is arguable:

    "But the truth is it is Germany’s obsession with being seen as ‘good Europeans’ which may well lead to the biggest mess of all. The problem in Europe is not so much German hegemony as a complete absence of leadership."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680183/Is-EU-just-German-racket-Europe-Nearly-25-years-ago-Tory-minister-told-DOMINIC-LAWSON-lost-job-firestorm-followed-right-along.html
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  2. nox says:

    The 2015 revision of the UN World Population Prospect was released.

    It shows the projected population of Africa in 2100 to be 4.4 billion which is 200 million higher than even the 2012 revision.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Link?
    , @Dew
    4.4 billion? One billion is already too much. My wallet looks scared.

    Now I am thinking of that Public Enemy album Fear of a Black Planet. Just for the title alone, not the Afrocentric music.

    , @silviosilver
    That's only a .05% difference in the average annual population growth rate, which could very easily change based on a large number of factors which influence fertility. African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out. Although Africa hasn't been known for producing pleasant surprises with respect to development, I think in this case there's more room for downward revisions than upward revisions. Africa's low economic level has kept it somewhat isolated from global cultural trends tending towards low fertility, but it's not completely immune from those trends, and as it continues to develop economically there's a real chance fertility there could see a very rapid reduction.
    , @newyorker
    They're wrong. No way will the African population get that large. Before that happens Africa will have a malthusian crisis probably in the form of disease and later famine. This is Africa after all, home to nasty types of malaria and the font of new diseases.
    , @Erik Sieven
    I have followed the predictions in the last decade. Every projection has been higher then the projection before. The next one will surely be higher, too. Against the expectations fertility in subsaharan Africa simply does not even start to sink. I say subsaharan Africa will have between 6 and 12 billion people in 2100. Of those some hundred of millions might live in Europe, some hundred of millions might live in China, some hundred of millions in India.
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  3. IA says:

    Steve, they all would.

    Speaking of Eloi, the Hungarian-American director of the 1960 Time Machine, George Pal, based on the H.G. Wells novel, only directed another three Hollywood movies. He lived another 20 years.

    Read More
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  4. George says:

    You keep bringing up the Camp of the Saints. The Syrians and Afghanis are fleeing wars provoked by NATO so you have to consider it European policy. The Camp of the Saints migrations were due to hunger and poverty. The Syrians would not be migrating on mass were it not for the perpetual war in Syria.

    Just admit defeat. Close down some big ticket defense projects like Trident and F-35 and use the money to resettle the Syrians back in Syria before it is too late. Once they have non arab speaking children it will be very hard to resettle them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @GW
    They're not "refugees" (where are the women, children, and elderly?) nor is Europe to blame for Islam's problems.
    , @AnAnon
    As Steves post will attest, there isn't enough money on planet earth to keep them in the 3rd world.
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  5. @nox
    The 2015 revision of the UN World Population Prospect was released.

    It shows the projected population of Africa in 2100 to be 4.4 billion which is 200 million higher than even the 2012 revision.

    Link?

    Read More
    • Replies: @nox
    Graphs:
    http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Graphs/

    Raw data:
    http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/DVD/

    Look under "probabilistic projections" and poke around. The "Medium Variant" is the one with the highest probability


    These are the same URLs they've used in the past, but these are the latest figures
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  6. Clyde says:

    If the worlds poor were given Tyler Cowen spergy style permission to freely immigrate and the ships to get here, one or two billion would come within a year if were announced that the offer was only good for one year. Coming from Brazil for example because the epitome of BRIC power Brazil, is turning into a disaster zone. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11857174/Brazil-reduced-to-junk-as-BRICS-facade-crumbles.html >>>>>>and headed to junk bond status.
    ____________
    Tyler Cowen’s Ethnic Dining Guide | All food is ethnic food.

    https://tylercowensethnicdiningguide.com

    Food has replaced music at the heart of the cultural conversation for so many, and I wonder if it’s because food and dining still offer true scarcity whereas music …
    Annandale · Malaysian · Fairfax · Aladdin · Chinese · Arlington

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  7. WhatEvvs [AKA "Danuta Tramp"] says:

    Charles Blows on Sanders. For some reason AAs don’t warm to Sanders’ earnest intellectuality. Who’da thunk?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/14/opinion/charles-m-blow-bernie-sanders-and-the-black-vote.html

    There are three articles about Serena. They do not have three articles about the migrant crisis.

    Read More
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  8. Dew says:
    @nox
    The 2015 revision of the UN World Population Prospect was released.

    It shows the projected population of Africa in 2100 to be 4.4 billion which is 200 million higher than even the 2012 revision.

    4.4 billion? One billion is already too much. My wallet looks scared.

    Now I am thinking of that Public Enemy album Fear of a Black Planet. Just for the title alone, not the Afrocentric music.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notsaying
    "My wallet looks scared."

    A comment for the ages. One that I will not forget.

    Thank you, thank you for it.

    I will never take my wallet for granted again. I will always wonder now how it's feeling.
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  9. nox says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Link?

    Graphs:

    http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Graphs/

    Raw data:

    http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/DVD/

    Look under “probabilistic projections” and poke around. The “Medium Variant” is the one with the highest probability

    These are the same URLs they’ve used in the past, but these are the latest figures

    Read More
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    damn, how the hell do they make sooo many babies with the lack of food and water?
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  10. I’ve tried two times recently to get an answer to the titular question from an open borders libertarian:

    Instead of asking that question here – where any answer is virtually worthless – why not ask it publicly where the answer – or lack of same – would do some good?

    Read More
    • Replies: @michaelOH
    I asked Alex whether he had any moral objection to a billion immigrants moving to the US tomorrow. The answer was no.
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  11. AnAnon says:

    even if they don’t want to come, their host nation has every incentive to drive out what it might deem undesirables.

    “Want to immigrate to Germany? Petition the U.S. President to invade your country.” – invade a nation that might sort of be near yours, maybe.

    Read More
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  12. @nox
    The 2015 revision of the UN World Population Prospect was released.

    It shows the projected population of Africa in 2100 to be 4.4 billion which is 200 million higher than even the 2012 revision.

    That’s only a .05% difference in the average annual population growth rate, which could very easily change based on a large number of factors which influence fertility. African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out. Although Africa hasn’t been known for producing pleasant surprises with respect to development, I think in this case there’s more room for downward revisions than upward revisions. Africa’s low economic level has kept it somewhat isolated from global cultural trends tending towards low fertility, but it’s not completely immune from those trends, and as it continues to develop economically there’s a real chance fertility there could see a very rapid reduction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill B.
    It would be nice to think so...

    But of course the more migration to the West the less likely this is to happen cf. Paul Collier.

    NB I followed a twitter spat a couple of years ago between some ernest development expert in London and the liberal migration 'realist' David Goodhart where the former absolutely refused to retreat an inch from the notion that migration was a wholly good thing for Africa. It seemed that to her that migration was a religious rite that blessed all sides with its grace.
    , @Erik Sieven
    TFR in small subsaharan countries has decreased, but in the relevant, biggest countries TFR has not decreased at all. It has stalled at a very high level
    , @Big Bill

    African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out.
     
    Well, if a couple hundred million can get anchored in the West and send money back home, their population could grow much faster and indefinitely ... at least until the West collapses.
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  13. rvg says:

    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don’t you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Red Pills Yummy

    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife
     
    The concern (at least from my perspective) is not that Arabs, blacks and Hispanics are "stealing our women". It's that they are not well-suited to function in a high-trust, high-IQ, low-violence society founded on Western European principles and ethics. They are a burden for the rest of whites to bear, both financially and culturally. This is not applicable to East Asians who are also high-IQ, high-trust, and non-violent. (Well, the high-trust part is debatable, at least with the Chinese.)
    , @anon
    Personally speaking, it's just about the numbers - so no.
    , @Foreign Expert
    Maybe NE Asians are a kind of white people.
    , @Bill B.
    Shouldn't you be writing letters against racial preference to newspapers in Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and almost every country in Africa? To name just a few that spring to mind.

    Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.

    You either have what a Muslim commentator here calls a lack of asabiyya or you are lobbying (whether you know it or not) for white replacement. Either way you are some kind of bigot.
    , @Tiny Duck
    Great point but you must realize that the people here don't know much about women, and like Derbyshire have to take what they can get.

    In short-people here are losers and direct their anger at their own failures at others that are more successful and hardworking
    , @Sean
    I truly believe that if there was mass immigration skewed towards young women we would see opposition to it from women, it would be phrased as feminist criticism (older men with young Thai wives are beginning to get that in Scandinavia). When American GI's came home from WW2 with English wives some shop assistants refused them service.

    Re Derbyshire, yes Kevin MacDonald said something like that once and I suppose at an intellectual level it is true that Derb is not a consistent racial nationalist. As far as I am aware I am Derbyshire never claimed to be such .

    In the context of immigration skewed toward young males. if there are hundreds of thousands of excess men on the marriage market, some men are never going to reproduce. Derbyshire has not done anyone who wanted a white woman any harm, quite the opposite. Asian men may feel differently. Some white men marry white women and then divorce them to have children with younger woman, which is also reducing the average fellow's chance to reproduce.
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  14. rvg says:

    Apparently, many here also divide white people into higher whites, such as Northwest European Protestants, and lower whites, such as Celts, Slavs, and Southern Europeans, it is implicit in the way you speak of various types of European whites, such as Nordics vs. Slavs and Latins.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Don't know what you are talking about. There has been a ample concern on this blog, and others, of the fate of Greece, Italy, Hungary, Spain, et. al. due to mass third world migration/invasion.

    Furthermore, it has been noted many times the healthy reaction of Hungary, Slovakia, Serbia...to the invasion compared to the suicidal fatalism of too many of the Swedes, Germans, Norwegians, British and Americans.

    , @Anon
    If we are really good at pattern noticing then how on earth do we not notice that Northwest Europeans (Teutonic parts of Europe minus the Celtic parts) are better at creating prosperous societies than the rest of Europe? Do you want us to not notice for some reason?
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  15. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Maybe somebody could volunteer to label all the circles with the names of the corresponding country, in small type. (What the heck, also add to the label estimated average IQ.)

    A 1960 or 1950 graph would also make for a very interesting comparison.

    Read More
    • Replies: @athEIst
    Yeah, Steve. Since you posted the graph without a link. Also the IQ and comparison to 1960 map might wake up some people.
    I often mentally associate todays open-borders(really it is boarder) types with the abolitionists who when pressed about what to do about the slaves said they would go back to Africa
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  16. @Escher
    Want to immigrate to Germany? Petition the U.S. President to invade your country.

    That’s pretty similar to the plot of The Mouse That Roared: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYMuJDajujc

    Read More
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  17. @rvg
    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don't you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife

    The concern (at least from my perspective) is not that Arabs, blacks and Hispanics are “stealing our women”. It’s that they are not well-suited to function in a high-trust, high-IQ, low-violence society founded on Western European principles and ethics. They are a burden for the rest of whites to bear, both financially and culturally. This is not applicable to East Asians who are also high-IQ, high-trust, and non-violent. (Well, the high-trust part is debatable, at least with the Chinese.)

    Read More
    • Agree: K.K.
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Is that all you really think though? Come on, fess up. Deep down you think asians are going to make you rich, rich, right? So let's pack 'em in. A country's got to have some kind of mass immigration program, after all. Couldn't possibly say 'thanks, but no thanks' to everyone. So if you're forced to completely drown yourself in racial aliens, may as well do it with asians - that's where the money is, you know.

    Agree with this or disagree, but the dividing lines are clear: "HBD" as a political movement is not at all the same thing as the pursuit/defense of white racial interests.
    , @Brutusale
    Not debatable at all with the Chinese. They'll take anything not nailed down, and they act like any common area exists for their benefit ONLY.
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  18. I’m sorry, Dave, I don’t have enough information.

    Too many people. Too little information.

    Read More
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  19. athEIst says:
    @anonymous
    Maybe somebody could volunteer to label all the circles with the names of the corresponding country, in small type. (What the heck, also add to the label estimated average IQ.)

    A 1960 or 1950 graph would also make for a very interesting comparison.

    Yeah, Steve. Since you posted the graph without a link. Also the IQ and comparison to 1960 map might wake up some people.
    I often mentally associate todays open-borders(really it is boarder) types with the abolitionists who when pressed about what to do about the slaves said they would go back to Africa

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    It's my graph. I'm fixing it up in Excel's horrible graph package.
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  20. @Red Pills Yummy

    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife
     
    The concern (at least from my perspective) is not that Arabs, blacks and Hispanics are "stealing our women". It's that they are not well-suited to function in a high-trust, high-IQ, low-violence society founded on Western European principles and ethics. They are a burden for the rest of whites to bear, both financially and culturally. This is not applicable to East Asians who are also high-IQ, high-trust, and non-violent. (Well, the high-trust part is debatable, at least with the Chinese.)

    Is that all you really think though? Come on, fess up. Deep down you think asians are going to make you rich, rich, right? So let’s pack ‘em in. A country’s got to have some kind of mass immigration program, after all. Couldn’t possibly say ‘thanks, but no thanks’ to everyone. So if you’re forced to completely drown yourself in racial aliens, may as well do it with asians – that’s where the money is, you know.

    Agree with this or disagree, but the dividing lines are clear: “HBD” as a political movement is not at all the same thing as the pursuit/defense of white racial interests.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rvg
    The enemy of your enemy is not your friend? That is just like thinking you can be friends with Islamists because both of you dislike Jewish influence and feminism.
    , @bomag
    There is a kind of moral triage here. If our overlords insist we import people, our first step is to import those that more closely reflect our values.
    , @SFG
    Naah, why would it be? Some of its most prominent exponents, like Razib, aren't even white. The people telling you to ignore it (liberals both Jewish and WASP) are against white racial interests, but it's just a part of reality.

    I actually think a few carefully chosen Asians are OK as long as you spread 'em around and keep 'em from forming little enclaves. Without much contact with the motherland, they seem to turn into yellow-skinned white people soon enough.
    , @NOTA
    You're right. White nationalists are concerned with the ethnic interests of whites, but a lot of us here are not white nationalists. I'm interested in understanding the world as it actually is, and this is where hbd insights and various kinds of socially unacceptable clear thinking and question asking are all really helpful.

    For example: How well will Syrians (or Sudanese or Libyans or....) integrate into German society? I don't know the answer to that question for sure, but it sure seems like the question to ask *before* inviting hundreds of thousands of them to come live in Germany.
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  21. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @rvg
    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don't you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    Personally speaking, it’s just about the numbers – so no.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rvg
    Hey RIp Van Winkle, this is not 1956, if there were only 30000 Chinese in the whole of Australia this would not even be an issue.
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  22. Daniel H says:
    @rvg
    Apparently, many here also divide white people into higher whites, such as Northwest European Protestants, and lower whites, such as Celts, Slavs, and Southern Europeans, it is implicit in the way you speak of various types of European whites, such as Nordics vs. Slavs and Latins.

    Don’t know what you are talking about. There has been a ample concern on this blog, and others, of the fate of Greece, Italy, Hungary, Spain, et. al. due to mass third world migration/invasion.

    Furthermore, it has been noted many times the healthy reaction of Hungary, Slovakia, Serbia…to the invasion compared to the suicidal fatalism of too many of the Swedes, Germans, Norwegians, British and Americans.

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  23. GW says:
    @Escher
    Want to immigrate to Germany? Petition the U.S. President to invade your country.

    When did we invade Syria?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    without the help from the West for the rebels and the sanctions against Assad - which means without any meddling - Assad would have crushed down the rebels in 2011. There would be no IS in Syria and Iraq. There would be a quite peaceful middle-income country called Syria without democracy.
    Anyway, also in this scenario if Merkel had said that every Syrian and every Eritrean and everybody who says he is from Syria or Eritrea (which means anybody who does not look east asian or european) has a eternal right to settle in Germany, get welfare free world class health care etc. - they would have come, too.
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  24. GW says:
    @George
    You keep bringing up the Camp of the Saints. The Syrians and Afghanis are fleeing wars provoked by NATO so you have to consider it European policy. The Camp of the Saints migrations were due to hunger and poverty. The Syrians would not be migrating on mass were it not for the perpetual war in Syria.

    Just admit defeat. Close down some big ticket defense projects like Trident and F-35 and use the money to resettle the Syrians back in Syria before it is too late. Once they have non arab speaking children it will be very hard to resettle them.

    They’re not “refugees” (where are the women, children, and elderly?) nor is Europe to blame for Islam’s problems.

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  25. @athEIst
    Yeah, Steve. Since you posted the graph without a link. Also the IQ and comparison to 1960 map might wake up some people.
    I often mentally associate todays open-borders(really it is boarder) types with the abolitionists who when pressed about what to do about the slaves said they would go back to Africa

    It’s my graph. I’m fixing it up in Excel’s horrible graph package.

    Read More
    • Replies: @EriK
    A former co-worker spoke very highly of this product as a substitute for Excel graphs and other things. I think there is a public version or at least a trial version you could try if you want.
    http://www.tableau.com/
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  26. @rvg
    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don't you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    Maybe NE Asians are a kind of white people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous2
    It's more accurate to say that Finno-Ugric parts of Europe (Finns and Hungarians) are a variety of NE Asian.

    10,000 years ago, the people who became Finns and Hungarians emerged from North China.
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  27. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @rvg
    Apparently, many here also divide white people into higher whites, such as Northwest European Protestants, and lower whites, such as Celts, Slavs, and Southern Europeans, it is implicit in the way you speak of various types of European whites, such as Nordics vs. Slavs and Latins.

    If we are really good at pattern noticing then how on earth do we not notice that Northwest Europeans (Teutonic parts of Europe minus the Celtic parts) are better at creating prosperous societies than the rest of Europe? Do you want us to not notice for some reason?

    Read More
    • Replies: @rvg
    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars, and Poland was as lot richer than Prussia until the 1800s? The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2. And how do you explain the per capita GDP of Cordoba in 1200 vs. London in 1200? Or the per capita GDP of Germania vs. Italia in the 2nd century AD?
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  28. @nox
    Graphs:
    http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Graphs/

    Raw data:
    http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/DVD/

    Look under "probabilistic projections" and poke around. The "Medium Variant" is the one with the highest probability


    These are the same URLs they've used in the past, but these are the latest figures

    damn, how the hell do they make sooo many babies with the lack of food and water?

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  29. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Somewhat related, here’s an article in Bloomberg about how Japan is solving the “problem” of its population’s unwillingness to allow mass immigration, by using robots instead of immigrants:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-13/in-japan-the-rise-of-the-machines-solves-labor-and-productivity

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  30. @Foreign Expert
    Maybe NE Asians are a kind of white people.

    It’s more accurate to say that Finno-Ugric parts of Europe (Finns and Hungarians) are a variety of NE Asian.

    10,000 years ago, the people who became Finns and Hungarians emerged from North China.

    Read More
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  31. rvg says:
    @Anon
    If we are really good at pattern noticing then how on earth do we not notice that Northwest Europeans (Teutonic parts of Europe minus the Celtic parts) are better at creating prosperous societies than the rest of Europe? Do you want us to not notice for some reason?

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars, and Poland was as lot richer than Prussia until the 1800s? The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2. And how do you explain the per capita GDP of Cordoba in 1200 vs. London in 1200? Or the per capita GDP of Germania vs. Italia in the 2nd century AD?

    Read More
    • Replies: @David
    There were seven dwarfs in 1937. How many in 2015????
    , @Bill B.
    The industrial revolution lifted countries with 'Teutonic" traits that had been in a process of refinement for centuries.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

     

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    , @silviosilver

    The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2.
     
    These are exaggerations. Norway is wealthy for reasons that go well beyond oil, and while both Sweden and Norway were severely underdeveloped in comparison to Britain and France throughout the 19th century, once they began to industrialize around the turn of the century they caught up quite rapidly. Sweden's per capita GDP overtook France's in the 1930s, for instance.

    That said, HBDers who pride themselves on "noticing" tend to only see what's right in front of them, thereby overlooking historical circumstances. So with respect to this discussion, they ignore the fact that prosperity is something you grow into over time, and instead issue blanket statements like "northwest europeans build nice countries." Well, that's not way off, but it does miss some important details.
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  32. rvg says:
    @silviosilver
    Is that all you really think though? Come on, fess up. Deep down you think asians are going to make you rich, rich, right? So let's pack 'em in. A country's got to have some kind of mass immigration program, after all. Couldn't possibly say 'thanks, but no thanks' to everyone. So if you're forced to completely drown yourself in racial aliens, may as well do it with asians - that's where the money is, you know.

    Agree with this or disagree, but the dividing lines are clear: "HBD" as a political movement is not at all the same thing as the pursuit/defense of white racial interests.

    The enemy of your enemy is not your friend? That is just like thinking you can be friends with Islamists because both of you dislike Jewish influence and feminism.

    Read More
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  33. David says:
    @rvg
    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars, and Poland was as lot richer than Prussia until the 1800s? The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2. And how do you explain the per capita GDP of Cordoba in 1200 vs. London in 1200? Or the per capita GDP of Germania vs. Italia in the 2nd century AD?

    There were seven dwarfs in 1937. How many in 2015????

    Read More
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  34. bomag says:
    @silviosilver
    Is that all you really think though? Come on, fess up. Deep down you think asians are going to make you rich, rich, right? So let's pack 'em in. A country's got to have some kind of mass immigration program, after all. Couldn't possibly say 'thanks, but no thanks' to everyone. So if you're forced to completely drown yourself in racial aliens, may as well do it with asians - that's where the money is, you know.

    Agree with this or disagree, but the dividing lines are clear: "HBD" as a political movement is not at all the same thing as the pursuit/defense of white racial interests.

    There is a kind of moral triage here. If our overlords insist we import people, our first step is to import those that more closely reflect our values.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rvg
    What if I prefer Latin values to WASP values then? If you disagree with me then you are free move to England or Germany. Latin Americans are not that bad if you how to get along with them, plus they are not deviously cunning.
    , @silviosilver

    There is a kind of moral triage here. If our overlords insist we import people, our first step is to import those that more closely reflect our values.
     
    No thank you.

    But even if I were to follow your logic, latino values are closer to western values than are asian values.

    What you really mean is people whose IQs are greatest. That's what really energizes the HBDer.

    Well I like high IQ too. Eugenics is a far better way to achieve it than immigration, though - you get all the upside and none of the downside.
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  35. Bill B. says:
    @Escher
    Want to immigrate to Germany? Petition the U.S. President to invade your country.

    You are all push and no pull.

    Most are men, many appear to have greater access to financial resources than people in the Balkans, although many are also from Kosovo, many tear up their id to obscure their motivation.

    Merkel’s arrogant reasoning that in order save Europe it is necessary to destroy it has certain precedents in German History.

    There is a debate now over whether Germany is hard-wired to arrogantly assume it’s the boss or whether it suffers recurring fits of federalism dressed as altruism.

    This conclusion from the below therefore is arguable:

    “But the truth is it is Germany’s obsession with being seen as ‘good Europeans’ which may well lead to the biggest mess of all. The problem in Europe is not so much German hegemony as a complete absence of leadership.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680183/Is-EU-just-German-racket-Europe-Nearly-25-years-ago-Tory-minister-told-DOMINIC-LAWSON-lost-job-firestorm-followed-right-along.html

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  36. rvg says:
    @bomag
    There is a kind of moral triage here. If our overlords insist we import people, our first step is to import those that more closely reflect our values.

    What if I prefer Latin values to WASP values then? If you disagree with me then you are free move to England or Germany. Latin Americans are not that bad if you how to get along with them, plus they are not deviously cunning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag
    Latin Americans are not that bad if you how to get along with them

    IOW, high maintenance.

    plus they are not deviously cunning

    ??? Please. Plenty of lax rule following (immigration (cough)) with a good story to explain it all away.

    Latin America has its charms, but I notice few are clamoring to get into those countries.

    , @Gato de la Biblioteca
    Alternatively, you could move to Latin America rather than foist your own fetishes on the entire nation. Moving one person would be Fuck all easier than moving a few hundred million.
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  37. Bill B. says:
    @silviosilver
    That's only a .05% difference in the average annual population growth rate, which could very easily change based on a large number of factors which influence fertility. African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out. Although Africa hasn't been known for producing pleasant surprises with respect to development, I think in this case there's more room for downward revisions than upward revisions. Africa's low economic level has kept it somewhat isolated from global cultural trends tending towards low fertility, but it's not completely immune from those trends, and as it continues to develop economically there's a real chance fertility there could see a very rapid reduction.

    It would be nice to think so…

    But of course the more migration to the West the less likely this is to happen cf. Paul Collier.

    NB I followed a twitter spat a couple of years ago between some ernest development expert in London and the liberal migration ‘realist’ David Goodhart where the former absolutely refused to retreat an inch from the notion that migration was a wholly good thing for Africa. It seemed that to her that migration was a religious rite that blessed all sides with its grace.

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  38. rvg says:

    I see Steve is letting comments go down the rabbit hole again because he doesn’t want to hurt the pwetty little feelings of his high iq (or so they claim) East Asian friends, how cute, awwwwwwwwwwwww.

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  39. Just at an African investing conference in Cape Town and we’re just discussing demographics.

    The average age in Uganda is 15, in Japan it’s 46 (I believe in the U.S it is around 40.5yrs).

    Apparently Africa’s % of the global pop is going to go from 13.5% currently to 22.5%.

    If anyone knows Africa, they wouldn’t be surprised. Late teens are almost harangued by their elders to produce more sons for the tribe even when there’s no money to go around.

    The West is in a decadent cycle; it’s done so well in the last half millennia (even eclipsing it’s indirect Graeco-Romans antecedents) that white guilt is almost expected. The key will be as soon as Asia actually begins to tip the balance, that’s when the competitive tendencies will stir again.

    Of course there is the “transnational” elite (originally Wasp but now welcomes in other races, most notably Semitics like Arabs & Jews) that is pioneering a global class solidarity over ethno-racial states. They speak English, go to the same schools, network in the same clubs and are sort of reminiscent of the class dynamics in the pre WW1 years. That’s why interfering in nations like Syria and absorbing waves of refugees are so important because it creates a global uniformity of sorts.

    I don’t see Asia, particularly China, partaking in this trans-nationalism to the same extent. There is a strain of nationalism (patriotism) in China that really is unique the world over; the Chinese have their recent history to thank for their exceptional wariness for “liberal democracy.”

    Has the CCP, post Mao, done more for humanity’s welfare than any other global organisation past or present by successfully navigating growth & devlopement without external assistance, interference or domestic instability?

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  40. Bill B. says:
    @rvg
    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don't you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    Shouldn’t you be writing letters against racial preference to newspapers in Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and almost every country in Africa? To name just a few that spring to mind.

    Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.

    You either have what a Muslim commentator here calls a lack of asabiyya or you are lobbying (whether you know it or not) for white replacement. Either way you are some kind of bigot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rvg
    Its you people who see nothing wrong with importing 100 million Chinese and Koreans into the United States because they have high IQ.
    , @rvg
    If one is concerned about the fate of white people, why would one have an Asian wife?
    , @tbraton
    "Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens."

    Or you could simply suggest that India (largely Hindu) and Pakistan (overwhelmingly Muslim) reunite as countries, since they are pretty much the same ethnic stock, reversing the decision of their former imperial master Great Britain. That would also have the virtue of solving the problem of Kashmir. As Rodney King would say, "Can we all get along?"
    , @rec1man
    India has about 10 million illegal bangladeshi muslims and 1 million illegal Pakistani muslims, imported by 'Secular' (anti-Hindu) and Leftist parties for a vote bank
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  41. Bill B. says:
    @rvg
    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars, and Poland was as lot richer than Prussia until the 1800s? The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2. And how do you explain the per capita GDP of Cordoba in 1200 vs. London in 1200? Or the per capita GDP of Germania vs. Italia in the 2nd century AD?

    The industrial revolution lifted countries with ‘Teutonic” traits that had been in a process of refinement for centuries.

    Read More
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  42. anon says: • Disclaimer

    successfully navigating growth & devlopment without external assistance

    Complete opposite of the truth.

    The spark and foundation of China’s recent development was American corporations moving their productive capacity from the west to the east.

    The unbalancing of global supply and demand caused by this is why the world economy is crumbling now.

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  43. @rvg
    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars, and Poland was as lot richer than Prussia until the 1800s? The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2. And how do you explain the per capita GDP of Cordoba in 1200 vs. London in 1200? Or the per capita GDP of Germania vs. Italia in the 2nd century AD?

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rvg
    Fibonacci was Italian, and Cosntantinople relied on the Eyetalians to provide its navy from time to time.
    , @rvg
    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870, with the exception of Prussia. And what do you call the Austrians, who were not Slavic and who are only capable of beating the Turks. And was Napoleon German? And 90% of the German accomplishments in physics come from people of Semitic origin.
    , @SFG
    Germany was backward for centuries because it was a place, not a country. It was lots of little German states which, while they'd produce some very bright people, didn't have much economic heft. And, of course, the Thirty Years War did a lot of damage.

    Germany as an economic superpower started with Bismarck.
    , @Sean
    The Hanseatic League pioneered much of modernity.

    Read Brendan Simms. Most of European history (wars) revolved around keeping the German nation divided, because everyone was scared of its potential.
    , @athEIst
    And then they had the Thirty Years War
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  44. rvg says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

     

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    Fibonacci was Italian, and Cosntantinople relied on the Eyetalians to provide its navy from time to time.

    Read More
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  45. rvg says:
    @Bill B.
    Shouldn't you be writing letters against racial preference to newspapers in Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and almost every country in Africa? To name just a few that spring to mind.

    Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.

    You either have what a Muslim commentator here calls a lack of asabiyya or you are lobbying (whether you know it or not) for white replacement. Either way you are some kind of bigot.

    Its you people who see nothing wrong with importing 100 million Chinese and Koreans into the United States because they have high IQ.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    Do you have any evidence for that, or is that just bluster and assertion? I'm not sure what Bill B.'s stance on Asian immigration is, but I sincerely doubt he's ever said, "Sure, hundred million Chinese and Koreans is just what this country needs!" and if he's never said that, you're not arguing in good faith.
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  46. rvg says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

     

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870, with the exception of Prussia. And what do you call the Austrians, who were not Slavic and who are only capable of beating the Turks. And was Napoleon German? And 90% of the German accomplishments in physics come from people of Semitic origin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Oh please. Planck, Heisenberg, von Helmholtz...the list goes on.

    They definitely shot themselves in the foot with Hitler, but the Germans are more than capable of making their own scientists.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870

     

    Fun fact #237: France gets it's name from the Kingdom of the Franks, a 3rd century confederation of tribes on the Rhine.
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  47. rvg says:
    @Bill B.
    Shouldn't you be writing letters against racial preference to newspapers in Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and almost every country in Africa? To name just a few that spring to mind.

    Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.

    You either have what a Muslim commentator here calls a lack of asabiyya or you are lobbying (whether you know it or not) for white replacement. Either way you are some kind of bigot.

    If one is concerned about the fate of white people, why would one have an Asian wife?

    Read More
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  48. rvg says:
    @anon
    Personally speaking, it's just about the numbers - so no.

    Hey RIp Van Winkle, this is not 1956, if there were only 30000 Chinese in the whole of Australia this would not even be an issue.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill B.
    I think few people who are deeply concerned about the preservation of Western Civilization are wholly obsessed with race and colour except as a marker for that civilization.

    A few Asian wives here or there will not make much difference. A host of white women drifting away from the culture might. Repeated avalanches of alien peoples certainly will.

    WIthout a culture having a "dominant" feel to it - geographically or ethnically - its hold on its population will weaken and the culture itself will tend to shrink on contact with other belief systems and rival banks of memory.

    That is another reason to distrust the anti-white flavour of much contemporary liberal ideology which appears often to seek to break the culture by breaking up white societies. I used to think smashing up white countries was merely the collateral damage of progressive thought; these days I am more cynical.
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  49. rvg says:

    About the superiority of Germanic blood compared to Latin and Slavic blood, how can the Romans produce so many good generals when they originated from Turkey?

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Culture plays a huge role too--the Romans were the Germans of their day--humorless and disciplined--and the same cultures aren't always on top. There seems to be this idea on the Dissident Right that group differences represent some sort of eternal national essence, perhaps influenced by Jung, but really you're talking about populations, which change over time and are subject to both gene flow and changes in culture. Germans weren't fanatically disciplined until Bismarck moved in, and the Scandinavians have gone from Vikings to feminists. Probably it's some combination of reproductive selection and the introduction of other groups.
    , @tbraton
    "About the superiority of Germanic blood compared to Latin and Slavic blood, how can the Romans produce so many good generals when they originated from Turkey?"

    Huh? Leaving aside the fact that the Ottoman Turks did not emigrate to the Near East until the 13th century and did not establish the Ottoman Empire until they conquered Constantinople in 1453, exactly what "Turkish" generals did you have in mind? Any generals originating in Anatolia (present day Turkey) were more likely than not to be Greek, not Turkish. By the time Anatolia became Turkish, the Roman Empire in the West (Rome) had long since bid the world adieu. BTW many of the more successful Roman generals in the West who went on to become Emperors, such as Diocletian and Constantine, came from Illyria. Constantine, of course, was the Roman Emperor who turned the former Greek city of Byzantium into Constantinople, which eventually became the seat of the Roman Empire in the East, eventually to be called the Byzantine Empire after the division of the Roman Empire into two parts, Western Empire (based in Rome) and Eastern Empire (based in Constantinople). In the 6th century A.D., the Byzantine Emperor Justinian sent his excellent general Belisarius, probably of Germanic origin, to conquer a substantial part of the Western Roman Empire. The last great Byzantine Emperor before the rise of Islam was the great general Heraclius. Even though he was the one who made Greek the official language of the Eastern Roman Empire, he himself was of Armenian heritage. So I am a little puzzled by your reference to Turkish generals.
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  50. JoeB says:

    Steve, first nice graph. It puts the Puerto Rico migration numbers in a disturbing context.

    Second, thank you for your posts. They’re definitely the highlight of my visits to Unz.

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  51. SFG says:
    @silviosilver
    Is that all you really think though? Come on, fess up. Deep down you think asians are going to make you rich, rich, right? So let's pack 'em in. A country's got to have some kind of mass immigration program, after all. Couldn't possibly say 'thanks, but no thanks' to everyone. So if you're forced to completely drown yourself in racial aliens, may as well do it with asians - that's where the money is, you know.

    Agree with this or disagree, but the dividing lines are clear: "HBD" as a political movement is not at all the same thing as the pursuit/defense of white racial interests.

    Naah, why would it be? Some of its most prominent exponents, like Razib, aren’t even white. The people telling you to ignore it (liberals both Jewish and WASP) are against white racial interests, but it’s just a part of reality.

    I actually think a few carefully chosen Asians are OK as long as you spread ‘em around and keep ‘em from forming little enclaves. Without much contact with the motherland, they seem to turn into yellow-skinned white people soon enough.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    I actually think a few carefully chosen Asians are OK as long as you spread ‘em around and keep ‘em from forming little enclaves.
     
    A "few carefully chosen" year after year after year after year results in the same mess only extended in time. Unless you one day plan to say STOP - NO MORE, then it still adds up to long-term race-replacement.

    Without much contact with the motherland, they seem to turn into yellow-skinned white people soon enough.
     
    They still look asian to me, no matter how white-acting they are. It's just no advantage to me to be race-replaced by them. I guess it's that specter of Another Holocaust lurking in the back of your mind that prevents you from conceding this most basic, most fundamental, aspect of racial reality.

    The interesting twist in all this is that asians, in my experience, "get it" about race and are more open to admitting that they get it than any frightened-mouse white race-denier. That doesn't necessarily mean they're my friend, but it makes a complete mockery of their shills' claims about them.
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  52. SFG says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

     

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    Germany was backward for centuries because it was a place, not a country. It was lots of little German states which, while they’d produce some very bright people, didn’t have much economic heft. And, of course, the Thirty Years War did a lot of damage.

    Germany as an economic superpower started with Bismarck.

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  53. SFG says:
    @rvg
    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870, with the exception of Prussia. And what do you call the Austrians, who were not Slavic and who are only capable of beating the Turks. And was Napoleon German? And 90% of the German accomplishments in physics come from people of Semitic origin.

    Oh please. Planck, Heisenberg, von Helmholtz…the list goes on.

    They definitely shot themselves in the foot with Hitler, but the Germans are more than capable of making their own scientists.

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    • Replies: @rvg
    The A-bomb was a jewish invention, without the jews there would be no America atomic bomd.
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  54. SFG says:
    @rvg
    About the superiority of Germanic blood compared to Latin and Slavic blood, how can the Romans produce so many good generals when they originated from Turkey?

    Culture plays a huge role too–the Romans were the Germans of their day–humorless and disciplined–and the same cultures aren’t always on top. There seems to be this idea on the Dissident Right that group differences represent some sort of eternal national essence, perhaps influenced by Jung, but really you’re talking about populations, which change over time and are subject to both gene flow and changes in culture. Germans weren’t fanatically disciplined until Bismarck moved in, and the Scandinavians have gone from Vikings to feminists. Probably it’s some combination of reproductive selection and the introduction of other groups.

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    • Replies: @rvg
    Thats rubbish, Roman society and politics was legendary for its corruption and was anything but disciplined, and nobody who visited Rome during the Principate would describe it as a cold and humorless culture, and isnt the inflow of Germanic blood from the north supposed to make them more disciplined and humorless anyway, rather than less disciplined and humorful? There is no proof that the Roman Army was more disciplined that what Hellenistic Greece had, and nobody would call Hellenistic Greece as a cold culture. The early Roman armies before the Samnite wars were in Phalanx formation because that is what everybody was doing in the Eastern Med.
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  55. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The history of modern Europe has been determined by who controlled the coal and iron deposits of Belgium and the Rhineland. If Napoleon had been victorious these territories would have become parts of France and we would now be living in a completely different world.

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  56. rvg says:
    @SFG
    Culture plays a huge role too--the Romans were the Germans of their day--humorless and disciplined--and the same cultures aren't always on top. There seems to be this idea on the Dissident Right that group differences represent some sort of eternal national essence, perhaps influenced by Jung, but really you're talking about populations, which change over time and are subject to both gene flow and changes in culture. Germans weren't fanatically disciplined until Bismarck moved in, and the Scandinavians have gone from Vikings to feminists. Probably it's some combination of reproductive selection and the introduction of other groups.

    Thats rubbish, Roman society and politics was legendary for its corruption and was anything but disciplined, and nobody who visited Rome during the Principate would describe it as a cold and humorless culture, and isnt the inflow of Germanic blood from the north supposed to make them more disciplined and humorless anyway, rather than less disciplined and humorful? There is no proof that the Roman Army was more disciplined that what Hellenistic Greece had, and nobody would call Hellenistic Greece as a cold culture. The early Roman armies before the Samnite wars were in Phalanx formation because that is what everybody was doing in the Eastern Med.

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  57. EriK says:
    @Steve Sailer
    It's my graph. I'm fixing it up in Excel's horrible graph package.

    A former co-worker spoke very highly of this product as a substitute for Excel graphs and other things. I think there is a public version or at least a trial version you could try if you want.

    http://www.tableau.com/

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  58. rvg says:

    Roman society was very oligarchic, but the small size of Italia during the Mid Republic limited the stakes and the gains from corruption.

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  59. rvg says:
    @SFG
    Oh please. Planck, Heisenberg, von Helmholtz...the list goes on.

    They definitely shot themselves in the foot with Hitler, but the Germans are more than capable of making their own scientists.

    The A-bomb was a jewish invention, without the jews there would be no America atomic bomd.

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  60. @rvg
    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870, with the exception of Prussia. And what do you call the Austrians, who were not Slavic and who are only capable of beating the Turks. And was Napoleon German? And 90% of the German accomplishments in physics come from people of Semitic origin.

    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870

    Fun fact #237: France gets it’s name from the Kingdom of the Franks, a 3rd century confederation of tribes on the Rhine.

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    • Replies: @rvg
    The Franks were pushed out by the Huns, which caused the Franks to relocate a large part of their kingdom to the west of the Rhine.
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  61. rvg says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    German military power was an oxymoron until 1870

     

    Fun fact #237: France gets it's name from the Kingdom of the Franks, a 3rd century confederation of tribes on the Rhine.

    The Franks were pushed out by the Huns, which caused the Franks to relocate a large part of their kingdom to the west of the Rhine.

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  62. Sean says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

     

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    The Hanseatic League pioneered much of modernity.

    Read Brendan Simms. Most of European history (wars) revolved around keeping the German nation divided, because everyone was scared of its potential.

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    • Replies: @anon
    I'd say most of European history has been about preventing the current top dog from taking over completely.

    Frankish France
    Spain
    France again
    Germany
    Russia

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  63. Hunsdon says:
    @rvg
    Its you people who see nothing wrong with importing 100 million Chinese and Koreans into the United States because they have high IQ.

    Do you have any evidence for that, or is that just bluster and assertion? I’m not sure what Bill B.’s stance on Asian immigration is, but I sincerely doubt he’s ever said, “Sure, hundred million Chinese and Koreans is just what this country needs!” and if he’s never said that, you’re not arguing in good faith.

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  64. bomag says:
    @rvg
    What if I prefer Latin values to WASP values then? If you disagree with me then you are free move to England or Germany. Latin Americans are not that bad if you how to get along with them, plus they are not deviously cunning.

    Latin Americans are not that bad if you how to get along with them

    IOW, high maintenance.

    plus they are not deviously cunning

    ??? Please. Plenty of lax rule following (immigration (cough)) with a good story to explain it all away.

    Latin America has its charms, but I notice few are clamoring to get into those countries.

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  65. newyorker says:
    @nox
    The 2015 revision of the UN World Population Prospect was released.

    It shows the projected population of Africa in 2100 to be 4.4 billion which is 200 million higher than even the 2012 revision.

    They’re wrong. No way will the African population get that large. Before that happens Africa will have a malthusian crisis probably in the form of disease and later famine. This is Africa after all, home to nasty types of malaria and the font of new diseases.

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  66. Tiny Duck says:
    @rvg
    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don't you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    Great point but you must realize that the people here don’t know much about women, and like Derbyshire have to take what they can get.

    In short-people here are losers and direct their anger at their own failures at others that are more successful and hardworking

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  67. The Rising Bubbles of Color.

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  68. NOTA says:
    @silviosilver
    Is that all you really think though? Come on, fess up. Deep down you think asians are going to make you rich, rich, right? So let's pack 'em in. A country's got to have some kind of mass immigration program, after all. Couldn't possibly say 'thanks, but no thanks' to everyone. So if you're forced to completely drown yourself in racial aliens, may as well do it with asians - that's where the money is, you know.

    Agree with this or disagree, but the dividing lines are clear: "HBD" as a political movement is not at all the same thing as the pursuit/defense of white racial interests.

    You’re right. White nationalists are concerned with the ethnic interests of whites, but a lot of us here are not white nationalists. I’m interested in understanding the world as it actually is, and this is where hbd insights and various kinds of socially unacceptable clear thinking and question asking are all really helpful.

    For example: How well will Syrians (or Sudanese or Libyans or….) integrate into German society? I don’t know the answer to that question for sure, but it sure seems like the question to ask *before* inviting hundreds of thousands of them to come live in Germany.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    NOTA, please have the decency to admit you are political. It's not some dry interest in "understanding the world" that motivates your participation in these threads.
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  69. Sean says:
    @rvg
    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife, if you were really concerned about white people instead of being jealous of blacks and hispanics having sex with white women, why don't you jokers go after those white men with asian wives, eurasian kids, and asian girlfriends. Derbyshire has as much business speaking about about white interests as a prostitute has in speaking about the value of saving it until marriage, if Derbyshire is really interested in preserving white people why does he have an Asian wife?

    I truly believe that if there was mass immigration skewed towards young women we would see opposition to it from women, it would be phrased as feminist criticism (older men with young Thai wives are beginning to get that in Scandinavia). When American GI’s came home from WW2 with English wives some shop assistants refused them service.

    Re Derbyshire, yes Kevin MacDonald said something like that once and I suppose at an intellectual level it is true that Derb is not a consistent racial nationalist. As far as I am aware I am Derbyshire never claimed to be such .

    In the context of immigration skewed toward young males. if there are hundreds of thousands of excess men on the marriage market, some men are never going to reproduce. Derbyshire has not done anyone who wanted a white woman any harm, quite the opposite. Asian men may feel differently. Some white men marry white women and then divorce them to have children with younger woman, which is also reducing the average fellow’s chance to reproduce.

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  70. @nox
    The 2015 revision of the UN World Population Prospect was released.

    It shows the projected population of Africa in 2100 to be 4.4 billion which is 200 million higher than even the 2012 revision.

    I have followed the predictions in the last decade. Every projection has been higher then the projection before. The next one will surely be higher, too. Against the expectations fertility in subsaharan Africa simply does not even start to sink. I say subsaharan Africa will have between 6 and 12 billion people in 2100. Of those some hundred of millions might live in Europe, some hundred of millions might live in China, some hundred of millions in India.

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  71. @silviosilver
    That's only a .05% difference in the average annual population growth rate, which could very easily change based on a large number of factors which influence fertility. African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out. Although Africa hasn't been known for producing pleasant surprises with respect to development, I think in this case there's more room for downward revisions than upward revisions. Africa's low economic level has kept it somewhat isolated from global cultural trends tending towards low fertility, but it's not completely immune from those trends, and as it continues to develop economically there's a real chance fertility there could see a very rapid reduction.

    TFR in small subsaharan countries has decreased, but in the relevant, biggest countries TFR has not decreased at all. It has stalled at a very high level

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  72. @rvg
    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars, and Poland was as lot richer than Prussia until the 1800s? The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2. And how do you explain the per capita GDP of Cordoba in 1200 vs. London in 1200? Or the per capita GDP of Germania vs. Italia in the 2nd century AD?

    The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2.

    These are exaggerations. Norway is wealthy for reasons that go well beyond oil, and while both Sweden and Norway were severely underdeveloped in comparison to Britain and France throughout the 19th century, once they began to industrialize around the turn of the century they caught up quite rapidly. Sweden’s per capita GDP overtook France’s in the 1930s, for instance.

    That said, HBDers who pride themselves on “noticing” tend to only see what’s right in front of them, thereby overlooking historical circumstances. So with respect to this discussion, they ignore the fact that prosperity is something you grow into over time, and instead issue blanket statements like “northwest europeans build nice countries.” Well, that’s not way off, but it does miss some important details.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Northwest European (Teutonic minus Celtic) build countries of mass prosperity. Looking at this currently and historically, is there anything to dispute? What exactly are we missing in your opinion?
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  73. @GW
    When did we invade Syria?

    without the help from the West for the rebels and the sanctions against Assad – which means without any meddling – Assad would have crushed down the rebels in 2011. There would be no IS in Syria and Iraq. There would be a quite peaceful middle-income country called Syria without democracy.
    Anyway, also in this scenario if Merkel had said that every Syrian and every Eritrean and everybody who says he is from Syria or Eritrea (which means anybody who does not look east asian or european) has a eternal right to settle in Germany, get welfare free world class health care etc. – they would have come, too.

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  74. @bomag
    There is a kind of moral triage here. If our overlords insist we import people, our first step is to import those that more closely reflect our values.

    There is a kind of moral triage here. If our overlords insist we import people, our first step is to import those that more closely reflect our values.

    No thank you.

    But even if I were to follow your logic, latino values are closer to western values than are asian values.

    What you really mean is people whose IQs are greatest. That’s what really energizes the HBDer.

    Well I like high IQ too. Eugenics is a far better way to achieve it than immigration, though – you get all the upside and none of the downside.

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  75. @SFG
    Naah, why would it be? Some of its most prominent exponents, like Razib, aren't even white. The people telling you to ignore it (liberals both Jewish and WASP) are against white racial interests, but it's just a part of reality.

    I actually think a few carefully chosen Asians are OK as long as you spread 'em around and keep 'em from forming little enclaves. Without much contact with the motherland, they seem to turn into yellow-skinned white people soon enough.

    I actually think a few carefully chosen Asians are OK as long as you spread ‘em around and keep ‘em from forming little enclaves.

    A “few carefully chosen” year after year after year after year results in the same mess only extended in time. Unless you one day plan to say STOP – NO MORE, then it still adds up to long-term race-replacement.

    Without much contact with the motherland, they seem to turn into yellow-skinned white people soon enough.

    They still look asian to me, no matter how white-acting they are. It’s just no advantage to me to be race-replaced by them. I guess it’s that specter of Another Holocaust lurking in the back of your mind that prevents you from conceding this most basic, most fundamental, aspect of racial reality.

    The interesting twist in all this is that asians, in my experience, “get it” about race and are more open to admitting that they get it than any frightened-mouse white race-denier. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re my friend, but it makes a complete mockery of their shills’ claims about them.

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  76. @NOTA
    You're right. White nationalists are concerned with the ethnic interests of whites, but a lot of us here are not white nationalists. I'm interested in understanding the world as it actually is, and this is where hbd insights and various kinds of socially unacceptable clear thinking and question asking are all really helpful.

    For example: How well will Syrians (or Sudanese or Libyans or....) integrate into German society? I don't know the answer to that question for sure, but it sure seems like the question to ask *before* inviting hundreds of thousands of them to come live in Germany.

    NOTA, please have the decency to admit you are political. It’s not some dry interest in “understanding the world” that motivates your participation in these threads.

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  77. Luke Lea says: • Website

    Where’s Ukraine on that chart? Were it to get into the EU and the Schengen rules are still in force (a big if now) can you imagine the flow?

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  78. AnAnon says:
    @George
    You keep bringing up the Camp of the Saints. The Syrians and Afghanis are fleeing wars provoked by NATO so you have to consider it European policy. The Camp of the Saints migrations were due to hunger and poverty. The Syrians would not be migrating on mass were it not for the perpetual war in Syria.

    Just admit defeat. Close down some big ticket defense projects like Trident and F-35 and use the money to resettle the Syrians back in Syria before it is too late. Once they have non arab speaking children it will be very hard to resettle them.

    As Steves post will attest, there isn’t enough money on planet earth to keep them in the 3rd world.

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  79. tbraton says:
    @Bill B.
    Shouldn't you be writing letters against racial preference to newspapers in Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and almost every country in Africa? To name just a few that spring to mind.

    Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.

    You either have what a Muslim commentator here calls a lack of asabiyya or you are lobbying (whether you know it or not) for white replacement. Either way you are some kind of bigot.

    “Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.”

    Or you could simply suggest that India (largely Hindu) and Pakistan (overwhelmingly Muslim) reunite as countries, since they are pretty much the same ethnic stock, reversing the decision of their former imperial master Great Britain. That would also have the virtue of solving the problem of Kashmir. As Rodney King would say, “Can we all get along?”

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    • Replies: @Bill B.
    The varying successes of the constituent parts of the former Raj are revealing about the efficacy of Islam for modern development.
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  80. @rvg
    What if I prefer Latin values to WASP values then? If you disagree with me then you are free move to England or Germany. Latin Americans are not that bad if you how to get along with them, plus they are not deviously cunning.

    Alternatively, you could move to Latin America rather than foist your own fetishes on the entire nation. Moving one person would be Fuck all easier than moving a few hundred million.

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    • Replies: @rvg
    Since HBDers are debating over what types of immigrants, are the best, some prefer Chinese, but what if I find NEA culture to be too cold and prefer Latin culture? And unilke NEAs they do not threaten to be smarter than me.
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  81. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Sean
    The Hanseatic League pioneered much of modernity.

    Read Brendan Simms. Most of European history (wars) revolved around keeping the German nation divided, because everyone was scared of its potential.

    I’d say most of European history has been about preventing the current top dog from taking over completely.

    Frankish France
    Spain
    France again
    Germany
    Russia

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  82. Calogero says:

    Can the trolls on this site at least show the courtesy of coming up with a fake name instead of gibberish? Their arguments are moronic, but they can’t be too stupid to type in an actual name as a handle.

    Also, one way to cut down on invaders would be for the West as a whole to end all government welfare.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Indeed. Steve should refrain from publishing comments from posters with random keyboard strokes for handles. Their idiocy index approaches infinity.

    And for the whiny bitches complaining about moderation, what part of "Comments are moderated by Steve Sailer, AT WHIM." don't you get?
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  83. tbraton says:
    @rvg
    About the superiority of Germanic blood compared to Latin and Slavic blood, how can the Romans produce so many good generals when they originated from Turkey?

    “About the superiority of Germanic blood compared to Latin and Slavic blood, how can the Romans produce so many good generals when they originated from Turkey?”

    Huh? Leaving aside the fact that the Ottoman Turks did not emigrate to the Near East until the 13th century and did not establish the Ottoman Empire until they conquered Constantinople in 1453, exactly what “Turkish” generals did you have in mind? Any generals originating in Anatolia (present day Turkey) were more likely than not to be Greek, not Turkish. By the time Anatolia became Turkish, the Roman Empire in the West (Rome) had long since bid the world adieu. BTW many of the more successful Roman generals in the West who went on to become Emperors, such as Diocletian and Constantine, came from Illyria. Constantine, of course, was the Roman Emperor who turned the former Greek city of Byzantium into Constantinople, which eventually became the seat of the Roman Empire in the East, eventually to be called the Byzantine Empire after the division of the Roman Empire into two parts, Western Empire (based in Rome) and Eastern Empire (based in Constantinople). In the 6th century A.D., the Byzantine Emperor Justinian sent his excellent general Belisarius, probably of Germanic origin, to conquer a substantial part of the Western Roman Empire. The last great Byzantine Emperor before the rise of Islam was the great general Heraclius. Even though he was the one who made Greek the official language of the Eastern Roman Empire, he himself was of Armenian heritage. So I am a little puzzled by your reference to Turkish generals.

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    • Replies: @rvg
    I just took the assumption of Roman origins from the Aenid, they may have been entirely indigenous as well.
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  84. rec1man says:
    @Bill B.
    Shouldn't you be writing letters against racial preference to newspapers in Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan, Korea, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and almost every country in Africa? To name just a few that spring to mind.

    Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens.

    You either have what a Muslim commentator here calls a lack of asabiyya or you are lobbying (whether you know it or not) for white replacement. Either way you are some kind of bigot.

    India has about 10 million illegal bangladeshi muslims and 1 million illegal Pakistani muslims, imported by ‘Secular’ (anti-Hindu) and Leftist parties for a vote bank

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    • Replies: @Bill B.
    OK. But I think those folks are within the same ethnic ball park with elements of a common history under the Raj.

    India is often touted as a great multicultural society yet I tend to think of it as a layered, communitarian entity with different groups playing the roles that would be less distinctly defined elsewhere. The caste system being its most vivid exemplar. (Sikhs would probably disagree.)

    What I am trying to say is that India forms a more coherent entity than might appear at first glance - and that a mass of true outsiders would not fit in.

    Expat workers tend not to like India. The Indian diaspora should be a sufficient resource for a subcon with great swathes of low IQ, and large numbers of high, IQ people.
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  85. notsaying says:
    @Dew
    4.4 billion? One billion is already too much. My wallet looks scared.

    Now I am thinking of that Public Enemy album Fear of a Black Planet. Just for the title alone, not the Afrocentric music.

    “My wallet looks scared.”

    A comment for the ages. One that I will not forget.

    Thank you, thank you for it.

    I will never take my wallet for granted again. I will always wonder now how it’s feeling.

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  86. Big Bill says:
    @silviosilver
    That's only a .05% difference in the average annual population growth rate, which could very easily change based on a large number of factors which influence fertility. African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out. Although Africa hasn't been known for producing pleasant surprises with respect to development, I think in this case there's more room for downward revisions than upward revisions. Africa's low economic level has kept it somewhat isolated from global cultural trends tending towards low fertility, but it's not completely immune from those trends, and as it continues to develop economically there's a real chance fertility there could see a very rapid reduction.

    African fertility is declining, but the question is how quickly it will decline and where it will bottom out.

    Well, if a couple hundred million can get anchored in the West and send money back home, their population could grow much faster and indefinitely … at least until the West collapses.

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  87. rvg says:
    @tbraton
    "About the superiority of Germanic blood compared to Latin and Slavic blood, how can the Romans produce so many good generals when they originated from Turkey?"

    Huh? Leaving aside the fact that the Ottoman Turks did not emigrate to the Near East until the 13th century and did not establish the Ottoman Empire until they conquered Constantinople in 1453, exactly what "Turkish" generals did you have in mind? Any generals originating in Anatolia (present day Turkey) were more likely than not to be Greek, not Turkish. By the time Anatolia became Turkish, the Roman Empire in the West (Rome) had long since bid the world adieu. BTW many of the more successful Roman generals in the West who went on to become Emperors, such as Diocletian and Constantine, came from Illyria. Constantine, of course, was the Roman Emperor who turned the former Greek city of Byzantium into Constantinople, which eventually became the seat of the Roman Empire in the East, eventually to be called the Byzantine Empire after the division of the Roman Empire into two parts, Western Empire (based in Rome) and Eastern Empire (based in Constantinople). In the 6th century A.D., the Byzantine Emperor Justinian sent his excellent general Belisarius, probably of Germanic origin, to conquer a substantial part of the Western Roman Empire. The last great Byzantine Emperor before the rise of Islam was the great general Heraclius. Even though he was the one who made Greek the official language of the Eastern Roman Empire, he himself was of Armenian heritage. So I am a little puzzled by your reference to Turkish generals.

    I just took the assumption of Roman origins from the Aenid, they may have been entirely indigenous as well.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    You are totally full of mindless bullshit. First you spout nonsense about Roman generals coming from Turkey, which is totally preposterous, and now you talk about Virgil's Aeneid. This total nonsense shows that you are nothing but a blithering troll. Fuck off. You are a total waste of anybody's time. Everybody should put you on ignore.
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  88. rvg says:
    @Gato de la Biblioteca
    Alternatively, you could move to Latin America rather than foist your own fetishes on the entire nation. Moving one person would be Fuck all easier than moving a few hundred million.

    Since HBDers are debating over what types of immigrants, are the best, some prefer Chinese, but what if I find NEA culture to be too cold and prefer Latin culture? And unilke NEAs they do not threaten to be smarter than me.

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    • Replies: @anon
    I don't know if you're trolling or not but just in case you're not there's HBD - which is just interesting genetic stuff - and politics.

    There's an overlap sure but I think you're looking at this like it's all "meant" to be politics.

    It seems that way at the moment because every political decision being made contradicts HBD but they're two separate things.

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  89. tbraton says:
    @rvg
    I just took the assumption of Roman origins from the Aenid, they may have been entirely indigenous as well.

    You are totally full of mindless bullshit. First you spout nonsense about Roman generals coming from Turkey, which is totally preposterous, and now you talk about Virgil’s Aeneid. This total nonsense shows that you are nothing but a blithering troll. Fuck off. You are a total waste of anybody’s time. Everybody should put you on ignore.

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  90. Corvinus says:

    “It’s that they are not well-suited to function in a high-trust, high-IQ, low-violence society founded on Western European principles and ethics.”

    You do realize HOW and WHY Europeans built their civilization, right? Through barbaric means. Just like every group known to humankind.

    “They are a burden for the rest of whites to bear, both financially and culturally.”

    Define “whites”. Second, how are “vibrants” a burden culturally?

    “This is not applicable to East Asians who are also high-IQ, high-trust, and non-violent. (Well, the high-trust part is debatable, at least with the Chinese.)”

    High IQ. Check. High trust, ok. What metrics are involved here? How are you able to objectively determine whether Asians are high trust, as opposed to Africans who are low trust?
    Non-violent. Um, ever bear witness to Asian street gangs? They’re a nasty lot.

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  91. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @rvg
    Since HBDers are debating over what types of immigrants, are the best, some prefer Chinese, but what if I find NEA culture to be too cold and prefer Latin culture? And unilke NEAs they do not threaten to be smarter than me.

    I don’t know if you’re trolling or not but just in case you’re not there’s HBD – which is just interesting genetic stuff – and politics.

    There’s an overlap sure but I think you’re looking at this like it’s all “meant” to be politics.

    It seems that way at the moment because every political decision being made contradicts HBD but they’re two separate things.

    Read More
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  92. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Here’s another idea for a graph in that series.

    Leave the US circle as-is and calculate only two other circles, one for Europe and one for the rest of the world (sized and placed correctly). See how the circles compare.

    It would also be interesting to label Russia.

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  93. athEIst says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    Then how come Germany was as poor as dirt until the Napoleonic Wars,

     

    Johannes Gutenberg, born in 1398 in Mainz, educated at the University of Erfurt, invented the Printing press to mass-produce books, which up to that point had to be copied by hand.

    Also, Germany was home the most influential banking family in the Renaissance, the Fuggers.

    Pretty good for a dirt poor country.

    And then they had the Thirty Years War

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  94. Bill B. says:
    @rec1man
    India has about 10 million illegal bangladeshi muslims and 1 million illegal Pakistani muslims, imported by 'Secular' (anti-Hindu) and Leftist parties for a vote bank

    OK. But I think those folks are within the same ethnic ball park with elements of a common history under the Raj.

    India is often touted as a great multicultural society yet I tend to think of it as a layered, communitarian entity with different groups playing the roles that would be less distinctly defined elsewhere. The caste system being its most vivid exemplar. (Sikhs would probably disagree.)

    What I am trying to say is that India forms a more coherent entity than might appear at first glance – and that a mass of true outsiders would not fit in.

    Expat workers tend not to like India. The Indian diaspora should be a sufficient resource for a subcon with great swathes of low IQ, and large numbers of high, IQ people.

    Read More
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  95. Bill B. says:
    @tbraton
    "Try suggesting in India that a million Africans or Latinos be dropped in and see what happens."

    Or you could simply suggest that India (largely Hindu) and Pakistan (overwhelmingly Muslim) reunite as countries, since they are pretty much the same ethnic stock, reversing the decision of their former imperial master Great Britain. That would also have the virtue of solving the problem of Kashmir. As Rodney King would say, "Can we all get along?"

    The varying successes of the constituent parts of the former Raj are revealing about the efficacy of Islam for modern development.

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  96. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @silviosilver

    The only reason that Norway is wealthy os because of oil, and Sweden was dirt poor until after WW2.
     
    These are exaggerations. Norway is wealthy for reasons that go well beyond oil, and while both Sweden and Norway were severely underdeveloped in comparison to Britain and France throughout the 19th century, once they began to industrialize around the turn of the century they caught up quite rapidly. Sweden's per capita GDP overtook France's in the 1930s, for instance.

    That said, HBDers who pride themselves on "noticing" tend to only see what's right in front of them, thereby overlooking historical circumstances. So with respect to this discussion, they ignore the fact that prosperity is something you grow into over time, and instead issue blanket statements like "northwest europeans build nice countries." Well, that's not way off, but it does miss some important details.

    Northwest European (Teutonic minus Celtic) build countries of mass prosperity. Looking at this currently and historically, is there anything to dispute? What exactly are we missing in your opinion?

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Looking at this currently and historically, is there anything to dispute?
     
    You're looking at it historically and you're asking me what there is to dispute? Are you kidding me?
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  97. Brutusale says:
    @Red Pills Yummy

    You people are a joke and are scum, you keep on complaining about Blacks, Arabs, and Latino stealing white women, and yet you have no problem with people like Derbyshire having an Asian wife
     
    The concern (at least from my perspective) is not that Arabs, blacks and Hispanics are "stealing our women". It's that they are not well-suited to function in a high-trust, high-IQ, low-violence society founded on Western European principles and ethics. They are a burden for the rest of whites to bear, both financially and culturally. This is not applicable to East Asians who are also high-IQ, high-trust, and non-violent. (Well, the high-trust part is debatable, at least with the Chinese.)

    Not debatable at all with the Chinese. They’ll take anything not nailed down, and they act like any common area exists for their benefit ONLY.

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  98. Brutusale says:
    @Calogero
    Can the trolls on this site at least show the courtesy of coming up with a fake name instead of gibberish? Their arguments are moronic, but they can't be too stupid to type in an actual name as a handle.

    Also, one way to cut down on invaders would be for the West as a whole to end all government welfare.

    Indeed. Steve should refrain from publishing comments from posters with random keyboard strokes for handles. Their idiocy index approaches infinity.

    And for the whiny bitches complaining about moderation, what part of “Comments are moderated by Steve Sailer, AT WHIM.” don’t you get?

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  99. Bill B. says:
    @rvg
    Hey RIp Van Winkle, this is not 1956, if there were only 30000 Chinese in the whole of Australia this would not even be an issue.

    I think few people who are deeply concerned about the preservation of Western Civilization are wholly obsessed with race and colour except as a marker for that civilization.

    A few Asian wives here or there will not make much difference. A host of white women drifting away from the culture might. Repeated avalanches of alien peoples certainly will.

    WIthout a culture having a “dominant” feel to it – geographically or ethnically – its hold on its population will weaken and the culture itself will tend to shrink on contact with other belief systems and rival banks of memory.

    That is another reason to distrust the anti-white flavour of much contemporary liberal ideology which appears often to seek to break the culture by breaking up white societies. I used to think smashing up white countries was merely the collateral damage of progressive thought; these days I am more cynical.

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  100. @Anonymous
    Northwest European (Teutonic minus Celtic) build countries of mass prosperity. Looking at this currently and historically, is there anything to dispute? What exactly are we missing in your opinion?

    Looking at this currently and historically, is there anything to dispute?

    You’re looking at it historically and you’re asking me what there is to dispute? Are you kidding me?

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  101. michaelOH says:
    @24AheadDotCom
    I've tried two times recently to get an answer to the titular question from an open borders libertarian:

    https://twitter.com/24AheadDotCom_/status/641818877354209281

    Instead of asking that question here - where any answer is virtually worthless - why not ask it publicly where the answer - or lack of same - would do some good?

    I asked Alex whether he had any moral objection to a billion immigrants moving to the US tomorrow. The answer was no.

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  102. […] Uncle Steve wonders, if we had open borders, how many would immigrate here and crunches some numbers. Of course, a lot of them are poorer than Argentina, which considers […]

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