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How Did Indians Exterminate Saber-Toothed Tigers?
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A quarter of a century ago, Jared Diamond wrote a memorable magazine article, “Blitzkrieg and Thanksgiving in the New World,” about how awesome it must have been for proto-Indians who had crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia to finally find a corridor through the receding icefields of the Canadian Rockies and emerge, throwing spears in hand, onto the relatively warm Great Plains, with guileless megafauna stretching to the southern horizon, unaware of how dangerous these funny-looking newcomers were.

Pretty soon, most of the edible big beasts were extinct.

This is still often blamed on Climate Change, since, obviously, it must have been easier for mammoths and the like to survive in the Americas during the Ice Age when the future site of Chicago was buried under a mile of ice.

At West Hunter, Gregory Cochran points out the flip side of Diamond’s Happy Hunting Ground:

On the other hand… there were a lot of predators around, and they didn’t have any baked-in fear of humans either. Dire wolves, sabertooth tigers, scimitar cats, the American lion, short-faced-bears. Today, big predators in Africa and Eurasia know in their genes that Man is dangerous. In America, they probably thought that he was the weakest and most defenseless of all living things, and acted according. The life of those early Amerinds was thus full of interest.

Today, North American mountain lions (panthers, cougars, painters, pumas, etc.) really, really don’t like being around people. They’re quite dangerous when confronted by people, but they go out of their way to avoid confrontations.

Did this characteristic evolve over the last 10k to 15k years? Or were mountain lions, who, presumably, were pretty low on the predator totem pole before the Indians arrive always have a furtive manner?

In contrast, black bears are a little more at ease with people. It’s pretty common on Los Angeles news stations to show video of a black bear who has come down out of the hills for a swim in a backyard pool. The bear’s view of the traditional middle class Southern California lifestyle of a ranch house, backyard, and swimming pool, seems to be: “Cool! But how can they afford that?”

An increasingly good question shared by SoCal humans.

Here’s an LA Times article from a year ago on the famous puma, P-22, who has lived in 8 square mile Griffith Park since 2012 and not long ago ate a koala in the LA Zoo

Rangers caught him and put a tracking collar on him. But out of the 10,000+ who visit Griffith Park on the average day, only a tiny number see him, except for professionals with access to the real time tracking signal.

Wikipedia says the largest species of saber-toothed tiger, weighing up to 880 pounds, lived in South America.

Went extinct 10,000 years ago:

“Smilodon died out at the same time that most North and South American megafauna disappeared, about 10,000 years ago. Its reliance on large animals has been proposed as the cause of its extinction, along with climate change and competition with other species, but the exact cause is unknown.”

Yeah, obviously, that this terrifying beast went extinct just about when proto-Indian super-hunters from the Bering Strait arrived in South America is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.

Seriously, though, how did Indians take on these terrifying beasts?

Did Indians have the bow and arrow yet when they wiped out most megafauna in the New World?

Probably not, just the atlatl, an arm-extension for throwing spears further.

The bow-and-arrow was invented in the Old World, but took a long time to spread into the New World. A 2013 book suggests 200 AD as a point when it was clear the bow-and-arrow had reached the Great Plains. There aren’t a lot of big trees for making bows and arrow shafts near the Bering Strait (although there is some driftwood on the beaches), so it would have been expensive in the Arctic. One theory is that the latecomer Na-Dene (e.g., the Navajo who invaded the American southwest from Canada about 600 years ago) were the first to have the bow and arrow, and may have brought it from Siberia in a second wave into the New World.

Did they have dogs?

Probably.

What would their strategy be? Capture prey alive and tie it to a tree in a defile and wait to ambush the predator? Have dogs find down the den and kill the kittens? Poison?

Are there parts of Asia, such as islands, where hunter-gatherers wiped out all the tigers?

 
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  1. Maybe the people just ate all the tiger’s food.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    People are tiger food.
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  2. backup says:

    @Steve

    This alinea isn’t finished:

    In contrast, black bears are a little more at ease with people. It’s pretty common on Los Angeles news stations to show video of a black bear who has come down out of the hills for a swim in a backyard pool. The bear’s view seems to be that

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  3. dearieme says:

    Are we playing the “use a Churchill quotation” game?

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    • Replies: @DFH
    'Keep Britain white' has always been my favourite
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  4. Davidski says:

    Are there parts of Asia, such as islands, where hunter-gatherers wiped out all the tigers?

    Possibly in the Philippines, but that’s highly speculative.

    In fact, Tigers re-colonized much of Asia, as far as what is now Ukraine, from southern China/Indo-China only about 12,000 years ago. So they would have met a lot of human hunter-gatherers and eventually even farmers along the way, and that didn’t stop them. See here…

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0004125

    And they were doing really well in arid Central Asia, living along rivers and lakes, often close to people, and ate a lot of domesticated sheep, horses and even camels. They were also very common on Java and Bali in Indonesia until very recently, where they were also a nuisance to the growing populations.

    They only became extinct in Central Asia and on the two Sunda islands when the Russian and Dutch colonizers, respectively, brought in a lot of modern firearms and poison, and got the locals to clear most of the forests.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Dski, there are photos from Colonial and Raj India where hunters are posed with the skins of dozens of tigers. Amazing that there any Indian tigers left on that continent.
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  5. backup says:

    I think a good explanation for the connection of megafauna extinction and the arrival of anatomical modern humans may be diseases brought by the newcomers. Something like the Crayfish plague wiping out native European fresh water crayfish.

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  6. Marcus D. says:

    I always was intrigued about bows and arrows. I intuitively thought that it was the most widespread human technology. From the Bushmen of Africa to the Amazon Indians, all
    cultures used it. Seems that the unique people that never used it are the australian aborigines. They invented the boomerang as a long distance weapon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Cochran says that every tribe could quickly grasp the usefulness of the bow and arrow, unlike, say, literacy. The Eskimos didn't bring literacy with them to the new world when they arrived pretty late, because a lot of tribes hadn't seen much point in it. But everybody could see the value of the bow and arrow.

    My guess is that that the problem slowing the spread of the bow and arrow to the new world was the lack of good sized trees in the Bering Strait area.

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  7. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he’ll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth
    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn’t take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

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    • Replies: @El Dato

    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he’ll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth

     

    Probably a junkie puma.

    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn’t take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

     

    Isn't it the case that they also deforested fiercely?. Afterwards, living is reduced to sitting in Dreamland Desert playing the Didgeridoo..

    I remember some paper from the 90s about how Mammoth were done in by new-fashioned human pack hunting. I don't have it on my harddisk though. SAD!
    , @Anonymous
    Yes, the green/left/academic party line is that all the megafauna died out mysteriously at exactly the same point in time that the noble savages discovered the New World, but it had nothing to do with them gently living in harmony with nature... yeah right. I love pointing out how it strains credibility to think anything other than that these large meat sources were eaten much like the Moa was.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa

    The great thing about the Polynesian colonization of New Zealand was that it was recent enough in history that their crimes of extinction (and genocide in the case of the Moriori) are documented, unlike the other supposedly noble savages.
    , @Pincher Martin

    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn’t take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.
     
    2500 years ago?
    , @SteveRogers42
    No worries, mate -- you've still got Burrunjor!

    http://wwwmidgetonfire.blogspot.com/2010/04/burrunjour-living-neovenatorid.html
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  8. @Marcus D.
    I always was intrigued about bows and arrows. I intuitively thought that it was the most widespread human technology. From the Bushmen of Africa to the Amazon Indians, all
    cultures used it. Seems that the unique people that never used it are the australian aborigines. They invented the boomerang as a long distance weapon.

    Cochran says that every tribe could quickly grasp the usefulness of the bow and arrow, unlike, say, literacy. The Eskimos didn’t bring literacy with them to the new world when they arrived pretty late, because a lot of tribes hadn’t seen much point in it. But everybody could see the value of the bow and arrow.

    My guess is that that the problem slowing the spread of the bow and arrow to the new world was the lack of good sized trees in the Bering Strait area.

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    • Replies: @Elli
    If you have wood enough for a spear you've got wood enough for a bow. The Eskimos manage to make kayaks with the little wood they've got. Then there is the horn and wood composite bow. Was it developed solely for more power or because of a wood scarcity on the steppe? Baleen is also used to make bows - there are small all-baleen bows. You don't have to hunt the whale, just find one on the beach.
    , @TWS
    The locals on the west side of the Pacific managed to made bows as did other groups without lots of wood. They can be pretty funky looking as they are often composite bows with extra strings or limbs added to give it more power.

    The Na Dene isn't a uniform bunch. Some are very different and I suspect they came in a couple waves.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Steve, Eskimos, now known as Inuit, must have been the most resourceful people on the planet. Lacking wood, they used bone. I read when lacking both bone and wood they used frozen fish as sled runners. A great read is Peter Freuchen's "Book of the Eskimo."
    , @Thomas O. Meehan
    You don't need a forest of yew trees to make bows. Plains Indian bows were quite short and didn't require large trees to make. They were powerful and lent themselves to quick followup shots. Even in Siberia it's not too hard to find three foot lengths of decent wood. BTW Eskimos with no access to living wood made due with washed up whalebone and driftwood to make pretty much everything they have.

    As someone said, an atlatl is a powerful weapon and is pretty long ranged. Atlatls had superior penetration I believe. At least that's what scientists demonstrating them on TV found. My guess is that as game animals became smaller the bow was found to be handier.
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  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Typo, unfinished sentence:

    The bear’s view seems to be that

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  10. El Dato says:
    @anon
    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he'll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth
    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn't take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he’ll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth

    Probably a junkie puma.

    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn’t take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

    Isn’t it the case that they also deforested fiercely?. Afterwards, living is reduced to sitting in Dreamland Desert playing the Didgeridoo..

    I remember some paper from the 90s about how Mammoth were done in by new-fashioned human pack hunting. I don’t have it on my harddisk though. SAD!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he'll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth
    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn't take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

    Yes, the green/left/academic party line is that all the megafauna died out mysteriously at exactly the same point in time that the noble savages discovered the New World, but it had nothing to do with them gently living in harmony with nature… yeah right. I love pointing out how it strains credibility to think anything other than that these large meat sources were eaten much like the Moa was.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa

    The great thing about the Polynesian colonization of New Zealand was that it was recent enough in history that their crimes of extinction (and genocide in the case of the Moriori) are documented, unlike the other supposedly noble savages.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. Clyde says:

    Annals of Wildlife February 13 & 20, 2017 Issue
    Lions of Los Angeles
    Are the city’s pumas dangerous predators or celebrity guests?

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/13/lions-of-los-angeles

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Are [LA's] pumas dangerous predators or celebrity guests?

    CORRECTION: Are LA's dangerous predators celebrity guests or pumas?
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  13. I’d bet they would set huge fires on the grasslands to trap the beasts.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    James, the Plains Indian, before the arrival of the horse, set fires and drove buffalo over cliffs or into ravines.
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  14. Clyde says:

    At least in the movies, such large animals are intimidated by seven men with spears with the spear tips pointed at the tiger (what have you) from all directions. They close in on the big cat which is paralyzed from action. Then have two extra men start shooting arrows into the beast. Thus ten men bagging one lethal animal. Their reward is higher tribal status and sex with some weaker, not fit for the hunt, not fit to carry their jock straps, dude’s wives and daughters.
    Like I said, in the movies. What say you Tarzan?

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  15. ONLY White people kill things. Does everyone not get this?

    Indians loved all creatures and lived in, uh, harmony with nature. My social studies teacher told me so. She was a Nice White Lady.

    My guess is that the Saber-Toothed Tigers sensed the climate change White people would bring about in about 10,000 years, and opted for suicide.

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    • LOL: Abe, ia
    • Replies: @anonymous
    And all the while I thought that our red brothers and sisters led such Edenic lives until those White European devils started hopping off the boats.
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  16. By eliminating what the predator ate.

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  17. tyrone says:

    ask Matt Graham what you can do with an atlatl and dart ,even today lions don’t mess with maasai with spears

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  18. NickG says:

    My guess is that traps were used much to trap and kill or make easier to kill, large predators and big game animals, such as mamoths.

    Possibly like with the Kalahari bushmen, poison was used too. Bushman’s bows are weak, designed to wound and get poison into an animal’s system, rather than a wound to get it to bleed out, the way the boxcutter like blades on a modern hunting bow work.

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  19. It might have been caused by white supremacy. Whites have a known track record of exterminating Indians, and also of living in disharmony with nature, so they must be somehow at fault here.

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  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Humans, always and everywhere, display every single characteristic of a monstrous cancer upon the globe.

    Now granted, some are worse than others–how else could it be otherwise? But the story remains the same: wherever humans go, they destroy the natural world.

    If we had one or two billion humans on the planet instead of eight or nine, we could all live like Republicans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, Jacques Cousteau, PBS's aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world's total population at 250 million. Nice guy, huh?
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  21. DFH says:
    @dearieme
    Are we playing the "use a Churchill quotation" game?

    ‘Keep Britain white’ has always been my favourite

    Read More
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  22. Are there parts of Asia, such as islands, where hunter-gatherers wiped out all the tigers?

    The original range of the lion was all of Africa, Europe up to Southern Germany, and then east to the Urals and India. There were mammoths, rhinos and other mega fauna living in Europe and Northern Asia as well > 20000 years ago. They may have been just as unafraid of humans as the North American megafauna.

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  23. Dire wolves, sabertooth tigers, scimitar cats, the American lion, short-faced-bears.

    Hey, Ursa, why the short face?

    OK, you had to know this would be next:

    “In the timbers to Fennario
    The wolves are runnin’ round
    The winter was so hard and cold
    Froze ten feet ‘neath the ground

    Don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me

    I sat down to my supper
    It was a bottle of red whisky
    I said my prayers and went to bed
    That’s the last they saw of me

    Don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me

    When I awoke, the dire wolf
    Six hundred pounds of sin
    Was grinning at my window
    All I said was, “Come on in”

    But don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me

    The wolf came in, I got my cards
    We sat down for a game
    I cut my deck to the queen of spades
    But the cards were all the same

    Don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me
    Don’t murder me

    In the backwash of Fennario
    The black and bloody mire
    The dire wolf collects his due
    While the boys sing ’round the fire

    Don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me

    Don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me

    No, no, no don’t murder me, I beg of you
    Don’t murder me, please, don’t murder me
    Please, don’t murder me”

    Off of Ded “Reckoning”, live acoustic album.

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  24. The current scientific consensus is that the Clovis people, with their nifty fluted spear points, managed to kill off >all< the large fauna in both North and South America in 1,000 years, an unlikely scenario, it seems to me. A few rogue scientists, including Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian, have suggested that the Clovis people came from Europe and North Africa, since their arrow heads resemble Solutrean points, but their ideas have unfortunately become heavily politicized and shouted down. And lately, some have even suggested a comet hit the NA ice sheet in 10,600 BC and killed off both the Clovis people and the large fauna, an idea supported by a good deal of real evidence, in spite of being written about by the interesting but slightly out-there Graham Hancock. https://cosmictusk.com/

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    • Replies: @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    I made my comment before seeing your.

    The comet theory has taken some hits with researchers claiming the shocked quartz found in the black mat was not in fact evidence of a comet impact.

    I still believe it is the most likely scenario of both how and why the Clovis culture and the so many animals disappeared so suddenly. It also explains why that during a major drop in global temps, sea levels kept rising (shattered ice sheet).
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    Good to see that catastrophism is still alive and well. There's a letter on that Tusk site from Bill Napier, whose "The Cosmic Serpent" with Victor Clube fascinated me decades ago. Good to see both of them are still going.

    https://cosmictusk.com/open-letter-napier-joe-rogan-podcast/

    http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/clubenap.htm
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  25. Speaking of bears wandering into town for an easy snack and swim in the pool, I wonder if the selection pressures are for amiability with humans at this point.

    I feel sorta bad for hunters trying to recreate that old Stone Age vibe. For example, they don’t really hunt deer, they harvest deer. I used to watch turkey hunters bundled up sitting in blinds at dawn on the old Outdoor Network. You can do that, or you can just pick them off from your golf cart at 10 a.m. when they stroll onto the green at your lake/mountain community.

    Big, dangerous predators are probably doomed.

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    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Excuse me sir, could you tell where the swimming pool is?

    https://youtu.be/8jRTrRxamxQ
    , @Anonymous
    In the Midwest, illegal mestizos hunt geese in an expedient fashion. They walk out to a pond in full view of all and sundry and bait them with bread or provoke the geese to attack them, then swing a line drive to the goose’s neck with a suitable object such as a discarded camshaft. They throw the goose in a bag and run for the nearest hide or a vehicle driven by an amigo.

    Cops look the other way since the geese are pests and they can’t make money busting mestizoes.
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  26. Dr. X says:

    Yeah, obviously, that this terrifying beast went extinct just about when proto-Indian super-hunters from the Bering Strait arrived in South America is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma.

    Simple. The Indians drove down from the Bering Strait in their SUVs, polluting the air and causing global warming, which in turn melted the glaciers and killed the beasts.

    Just like how Al Gore told us the polar bears were all dying off…

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  27. donut says:

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  28. Sparkon says:

    There were vast herds of American bison on the Great Plains, and also on the prairies of the Midwest at the time of the arrival of the Europeans, so it wasn’t stone age Indian hunters who almost wiped them out with bows and arrows, but rather Americans with long rifles who slaughtered the bison in their millions, and left the carcasses to rot.

    Bison were also rather easy game for the natives. Previously, I’ve posted an account of an Inoca (Illini) hunting party surrounding and wiping out a “large” herd of bison, although by that time, the Indians also had firearms, but they didn’t kill the young bison.

    So why would native people take on a fierce creature like a saber-tooth cat, when there were less dangerous, more numerous, and presumably tastier prey items available, like deer, which the swift, fleet-footed Inoca were able to surround, as well? The Inoca did hunt cougar, and bear, but like deer, they survive.

    Anyway, by that time, the saber-tooth cats, the cave lion, the short-faced bear, and the dire wolf had gotten the irresistible scent of tar in their nostrils, and had set out on the long trek to La Brea.

    Seriously, the gomphothere — an extinct elephant-like creature — survived into the Holocene. It is conceivable that they were hunted to extinction by early arrivals to the western hemisphere, thus depriving the large predators of their food source.

    But, in general, I would argue there are just too many unknowns surrounding the circumstances of human arrival in the western hemisphere at the end of the Pleistocene, and the outset of the Holocene to be able to make cause and effect arguments about the demise of the Pleistocene megafauna in the Americas, especially when this period was marked by sharp, and severe climactic fluctuations like the so-called Younger Dryas.

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    • Replies: @Roger Sweeny
    North America has had 4 Ice Ages in the last half million years, at least ten in the last 2.6 million. After only one was there a lot of magafauna die-off. That was the most recent one, the only one followed by humans in the Americas.

    Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's an awfully big one.
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  29. An example of neo-Darwinian overdeterminism. We’ve all seen deer who are friendly and those who are frightened based on their EXPERIENCE with humans, not genes.

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  30. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Speaking of bears wandering into town for an easy snack and swim in the pool, I wonder if the selection pressures are for amiability with humans at this point.

    I feel sorta bad for hunters trying to recreate that old Stone Age vibe. For example, they don't really hunt deer, they harvest deer. I used to watch turkey hunters bundled up sitting in blinds at dawn on the old Outdoor Network. You can do that, or you can just pick them off from your golf cart at 10 a.m. when they stroll onto the green at your lake/mountain community.

    Big, dangerous predators are probably doomed.

    Excuse me sir, could you tell where the swimming pool is?

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    • LOL: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    OMG that is so sweet.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Beware the Truce of the Bear.

    https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/truce_of_bear.html
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  31. Logan says:

    The extermination of two continents worth of megafauna by a few raggedy Indians has always seems far-fetched. But it’s happened repeatedly elsewhere, to mention just a few Madagascar, Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand.

    Nowhere else on such an incredible scale, to be sure.

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    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    In many places fire was a major factor in the decline of megafuna. Human hunters set fire to forests to drive away ambush predators like leopards and encourage prey animals that feed on young shoots (as well as harvesting shoots and tubers for their own consumption).

    However, as far as I'm aware fire doesn't seem to have been used that extensively in stone-age North America.
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  32. Good stuff Steve. But now that it’s becoming increasingly obvious the people responsible for the mass extinctions 10,000 years ago were NOT the same people putting around on reservations today. I’m not sure if our scholarly and journalist betters are ever going to acknowledge this, but if they do expect the narrative to change again.

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  33. conatus says:

    Jared Diamond, in discussing the backwardness of the aboriginal peoples in the
    Americas makes a big deal out the lack of big animals that were able to be domesticated in the Western hemisphere. But he neglects to mention that the Indians in the new World apparently ate the horse to death and that is why there were no h0rses to tame.

    https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2012/11/29/why-did-horses-die-out-in-north-america/

    It is hard for academics to understand that any other race other than Whites are capable of causing extinctions. In Jared’s mind it is inconceivable, nay impossible! for People of color to eat the horse to death and cause its extinction in the Americas.
    Thus hobbled by horse-meat eating the aboriginal Americans imagined the Spaniards to be mangods upon those four legs.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    conatus, I just stopped reading a book about the Indians of the Iroquois Federation. The authors mentioned that the Mohawks and Seneca fought on opposite sides in the American Revolution. First time in CENTURIES, according to the authors, that these tribes had fought. Yeah right. the Mohawks and Seneca still don't like each other.
    , @Anonymous

    It is hard for academics to understand that any other race other than Whites are capable of causing extinctions.
     
    Negro-type people are closer to the animal world so when they do it it's more natural.

    (T.D. isn't here today so I thought I'd take up the slack.)
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  34. Elli says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cochran says that every tribe could quickly grasp the usefulness of the bow and arrow, unlike, say, literacy. The Eskimos didn't bring literacy with them to the new world when they arrived pretty late, because a lot of tribes hadn't seen much point in it. But everybody could see the value of the bow and arrow.

    My guess is that that the problem slowing the spread of the bow and arrow to the new world was the lack of good sized trees in the Bering Strait area.

    If you have wood enough for a spear you’ve got wood enough for a bow. The Eskimos manage to make kayaks with the little wood they’ve got. Then there is the horn and wood composite bow. Was it developed solely for more power or because of a wood scarcity on the steppe? Baleen is also used to make bows – there are small all-baleen bows. You don’t have to hunt the whale, just find one on the beach.

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  35. TWS says:

    Pumas do not avoid people they avoid being seen by people which are two very different things. Pumas will follow humans for miles or observe them for long periods out of curiosity. Occasionally humans will do something that triggers that prey response and you get the child snatched or biker grabbed on a trail.

    The cougar that ate my house cats off the front porch used to watch my house for hours and used my yard as a pathway for months without me noticing.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The cougar that ate my house cats off the front porch used to watch my house for hours and used my yard as a pathway for months without me noticing.
     
    Then, pray tell, how did you determine this?

    This noticing thing is more complicated than I thought.
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  36. Pat Boyle says:

    Mountain lions (cougars) are indeed shy. I live in the Oakland hills and the city government has posted signs in the woods behind my house, to beware of the cougars. Yet I have never actually seen one of these big cats in over twenty years living here. We have lots of deer, turkeys and raccoons but you never see cougars or bears around here.

    Actually cougars are not big cats. The big cats are lions, tigers, leopards and jaguars. The leopard is the smallest of the big cats while the cougar is the largest of the small cats. Cougars are actually a bit bigger than African leopards. But cougars are mild mannered and shy around people while leopards are dangerous and deadly.

    I’ve never seen a cougar in the thick woods that runs for miles along the ridge line but I have occasionally seen dead deer that have been partially eaten. That could be cougars or possibly coyotes.

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    Is the cheetah Big or Small?
    , @Daniel H
    Cougars with ample food source can grow quite large. Check out this cougar killed in the Canadian Rockies by a hunter. Would not have wanted to be stalked by him. BTW, I disapprove of the hunting of cougars. What is the point? A trophy? Deer? Yes. Moose? Yes. They are consumed as food and are delicious and abundant, but nobody eats cougar. They are magnificent creatures, let them be.


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2017/12/Steve-Ecklund-cougar-The-Edge-hunt-2-889x1013.jpg

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  37. dearieme says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Mountain lions (cougars) are indeed shy. I live in the Oakland hills and the city government has posted signs in the woods behind my house, to beware of the cougars. Yet I have never actually seen one of these big cats in over twenty years living here. We have lots of deer, turkeys and raccoons but you never see cougars or bears around here.

    Actually cougars are not big cats. The big cats are lions, tigers, leopards and jaguars. The leopard is the smallest of the big cats while the cougar is the largest of the small cats. Cougars are actually a bit bigger than African leopards. But cougars are mild mannered and shy around people while leopards are dangerous and deadly.

    I've never seen a cougar in the thick woods that runs for miles along the ridge line but I have occasionally seen dead deer that have been partially eaten. That could be cougars or possibly coyotes.

    Is the cheetah Big or Small?

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    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    Is the cheetah Big or Small?

     

    Big

    A shrew or ferret is small.
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  38. @anon
    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he'll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth
    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn't take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn’t take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.

    2500 years ago?

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    • Replies: @anon
    That's what the archaelogical evidence shows. The Negrito people of Tasmania and some parts of the Mainland were here before that.
    Skeletal remains found at Kow Swamp and Lake Mungo, and dated to c.50,000 years, were a different people.
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  39. Dutch Boy says:

    Most likely scenario: disease, changed climate and hunting (the atlatl makes the throwing spear a much more formidable weapon).

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  40. I assume h. sapiens hunted out the large herbivorous megafauna and then the predators starved/reproductive rates declined below replacement levels.

    Ironically the same strategy white settlers used against the natives thousands of years later (kill all the buffalo).

    Powerful, intimidating things aren’t very resilient. They require a constant, large input of calories to stay viable. Disrupt that, and they’re quickly gone. Same is true for human institutions (armies, businesses, etc.)

    What would have been much more impressive is if h. sapiens had wiped out the ground squirrel or the cockroach.

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    • Replies: @ChrisZ
    Figures that the one day I neglect this site, Steve writes a post about the awe-inspiring Smilodon—with a great lead graphic, to boot.

    About the regrettable extinction of Smilodon, SimpleSong expresses my thoughts well. As the name implifies, “Apex” predators hold their positions in an ecosystem as long as the vast populations making up the lower tiers of the figurative pyramid remain stable. If circumstance or another species starts depleting the lower tiers, that undermines the position of the more established predator stock, which sometimes turns out to have been precarious.

    I can add that Smilodon *itself* seems to have effected such a “coup” against a reigning predatory species when its population expanded into the formerly isolated South America. There, several species of giant flightless birds, the aptly named Terror Birds, had long reigned at the top of the ecosystem, but were deposed, and driven to extinction, when Smilodon migrated onto the continent—over yet *another* newly-risen land-bridge.

    Whether the remote ancestors of today’s American Indians were the species that knocked off North America’s elite Pleistocene predators is a good question. It seems to me that some recollection of a beast as dramatic as Smilodon would linger in the mythology of Native tribes. I don’t know enough about it, but I’ve never heard of a “sabertooth spirit” in their otherwise animal-obsessed folklore. Does that suggest that a different, lost population of humans did the dirty work of extermination?
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  41. Don E says:

    Humans killed off tiger food.

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  42. TWS says:
    @Billy Shears
    Maybe the people just ate all the tiger's food.

    People are tiger food.

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    • Replies: @gwood
    Humans, the other white meat.
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  43. TWS says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cochran says that every tribe could quickly grasp the usefulness of the bow and arrow, unlike, say, literacy. The Eskimos didn't bring literacy with them to the new world when they arrived pretty late, because a lot of tribes hadn't seen much point in it. But everybody could see the value of the bow and arrow.

    My guess is that that the problem slowing the spread of the bow and arrow to the new world was the lack of good sized trees in the Bering Strait area.

    The locals on the west side of the Pacific managed to made bows as did other groups without lots of wood. They can be pretty funky looking as they are often composite bows with extra strings or limbs added to give it more power.

    The Na Dene isn’t a uniform bunch. Some are very different and I suspect they came in a couple waves.

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  44. Probably used dogs to chase the into deep pits or over cliff edges.

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  45. A contrarian view of the end of the Mega-fauna in North America:

    The Mega-fauna and the Clovis Culture (humans the predate the natives encountered by the early settlers) both ended quite abruptly. Above a ‘black mat’ found in digs, there is no evidence of either existing.

    The theory I was fed in school was the Clovis died out after killing of their prey. This never made sense since Mammoths and the like was unlikely their only food source. Paleo man needed to be near the coasts, feeding on fish and sea greens. Land plants during the peak glacial periods would have grown very slow due to dry conditions and the lack of CO2 in the atmosphere.

    One theory I do find possible is that North America got smacked by a comet, sending a wave of Tunguska like fireballs as far south as Northern Mexico and as far north as Alaska. The destruction made clear to Western Europe, with the heaviest impacts over the ice sheet in Hudson Bay Canada. The theory is fleshed out in the link below:

    https://cometstorm.wordpress.com/

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  46. gwood says:
    @TWS
    People are tiger food.

    Humans, the other white meat.

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  47. gunner29 says:

    Last 15 years they’re finding more evidence of an asteroid impact about 12K ago. I used to doubt it, but iridium from the asteroid is spread around the earth from that time. Iridium is rare on earth, but abundant in asteroids for some reason.

    Iridium is how they nailed down the dinosaur extinction was an asteroid….

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  48. @Redpill Angel
    The current scientific consensus is that the Clovis people, with their nifty fluted spear points, managed to kill off >all< the large fauna in both North and South America in 1,000 years, an unlikely scenario, it seems to me. A few rogue scientists, including Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian, have suggested that the Clovis people came from Europe and North Africa, since their arrow heads resemble Solutrean points, but their ideas have unfortunately become heavily politicized and shouted down. And lately, some have even suggested a comet hit the NA ice sheet in 10,600 BC and killed off both the Clovis people and the large fauna, an idea supported by a good deal of real evidence, in spite of being written about by the interesting but slightly out-there Graham Hancock. https://cosmictusk.com/

    I made my comment before seeing your.

    The comet theory has taken some hits with researchers claiming the shocked quartz found in the black mat was not in fact evidence of a comet impact.

    I still believe it is the most likely scenario of both how and why the Clovis culture and the so many animals disappeared so suddenly. It also explains why that during a major drop in global temps, sea levels kept rising (shattered ice sheet).

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    • Replies: @Redpill Angel
    I agree, it seems quite possible. I've been reading everything I can find about the Younger Dryas comet possibilities. Fascinates me.
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  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Question: Why is it taken for granted that north america was inhabited exclusively by “indians,” when that is an opposing hypothesis that is currently under qualified scrutiny, especially since finding anything other than bering straight origins is so politically loaded that anthropologists risk loss of grants and charges of bigotry if Soultreans are ever brought up as viable prospects?

    Doesn’t seem like the iSteve way…

    http://communitynewsblog.com/2018/01/b-c-indigenous-people-react-to-the-resurfacing-of-2-migration-theories/

    http://sciencevibe.com/2017/12/13/ice-age-mariners-came-from-europe-to-be-first-ancient-americans/

    https://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520275782

    Also, seems strange to assume that Clovis people invented a spearhead very much like the Soultreans, yet never went on to figure out written language, domesticating animals, or even the wheel before later western europeans took the American stage as agreed upon so far.

    Why did Clovis get so dumb all of a sudden, after the invention of their spearhead?

    iSteve readers want to know…

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  50. OT, but I see the SJWs have caught up with James Thompson, not for badthink himself but for hosting badthinkers. Hope he’ll be OK, my second fave read here, but the precedents aren’t good.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/01/10/ucl-launches-eugenics-probe-emerges-academic-held-controversial/

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  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Clyde
    Annals of Wildlife February 13 & 20, 2017 Issue
    Lions of Los Angeles
    Are the city’s pumas dangerous predators or celebrity guests?
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/13/lions-of-los-angeles

    Are [LA's] pumas dangerous predators or celebrity guests?

    CORRECTION: Are LA’s dangerous predators celebrity guests or pumas?

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  52. Bruce says:

    According to Sunbird by Wilbur Smith, the way to kill a sabertooth is for a Homeric hero to paint eyes on his shield, point a spear at the cat, lift the shield so the cat is challenged by the stare of the eyes and get lucky. All we need is to find a shield with eyes on it at a Clovis site.

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  53. Sean says:

    The sabre canines are not for biting, they are for a sleeper hold (pinching the arteries closed) on the neck of really large prey, so I expect the teeth were a big drawback once herds of suitably sized prey animals were too few. The clouded leopard is supposed to be a sabre tooth descendant.

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  54. @Hell_Is_Like_Newark
    I made my comment before seeing your.

    The comet theory has taken some hits with researchers claiming the shocked quartz found in the black mat was not in fact evidence of a comet impact.

    I still believe it is the most likely scenario of both how and why the Clovis culture and the so many animals disappeared so suddenly. It also explains why that during a major drop in global temps, sea levels kept rising (shattered ice sheet).

    I agree, it seems quite possible. I’ve been reading everything I can find about the Younger Dryas comet possibilities. Fascinates me.

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  55. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn’t take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.
     
    2500 years ago?

    That’s what the archaelogical evidence shows. The Negrito people of Tasmania and some parts of the Mainland were here before that.
    Skeletal remains found at Kow Swamp and Lake Mungo, and dated to c.50,000 years, were a different people.

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    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Mungo Man was apparently 196cm tall - hardly a "negrito."

    Looks like we are looking at SEVERAL competing groups inhabiting Australia prior to today's abos, with vastly different heights, probably specializing in different ecological niches.

    No wonder the abos and their leftard enablers were so desperate to get rid of the evidence of earlier inhabitants.

    Same as Kennewick man and many other cases in the U.S. where tribes prefer to claim that they have lived in their current location since time immemorial. In fact, even the famous Navajo only moved to the Southwest about 600 years ago, shortly before Columbus' landfall.

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  56. @Sparkon
    There were vast herds of American bison on the Great Plains, and also on the prairies of the Midwest at the time of the arrival of the Europeans, so it wasn't stone age Indian hunters who almost wiped them out with bows and arrows, but rather Americans with long rifles who slaughtered the bison in their millions, and left the carcasses to rot.

    Bison were also rather easy game for the natives. Previously, I've posted an account of an Inoca (Illini) hunting party surrounding and wiping out a "large" herd of bison, although by that time, the Indians also had firearms, but they didn't kill the young bison.

    So why would native people take on a fierce creature like a saber-tooth cat, when there were less dangerous, more numerous, and presumably tastier prey items available, like deer, which the swift, fleet-footed Inoca were able to surround, as well? The Inoca did hunt cougar, and bear, but like deer, they survive.

    Anyway, by that time, the saber-tooth cats, the cave lion, the short-faced bear, and the dire wolf had gotten the irresistible scent of tar in their nostrils, and had set out on the long trek to La Brea.

    Seriously, the gomphothere -- an extinct elephant-like creature -- survived into the Holocene. It is conceivable that they were hunted to extinction by early arrivals to the western hemisphere, thus depriving the large predators of their food source.

    But, in general, I would argue there are just too many unknowns surrounding the circumstances of human arrival in the western hemisphere at the end of the Pleistocene, and the outset of the Holocene to be able to make cause and effect arguments about the demise of the Pleistocene megafauna in the Americas, especially when this period was marked by sharp, and severe climactic fluctuations like the so-called Younger Dryas.

    North America has had 4 Ice Ages in the last half million years, at least ten in the last 2.6 million. After only one was there a lot of magafauna die-off. That was the most recent one, the only one followed by humans in the Americas.

    Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but it’s an awfully big one.

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  57. Berty says:

    I like how DACA is on the verge of happening and all Steve can talk about is stupid bullshit like this.

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    • Replies: @Whoever
    To each his own. I find this sort of thing enormously interesting, and, although I've heard the term, I don't know what DACA is and haven't read the threads about it, because political yak-yak bores me; it just seems to be peevish cubicle maggots quarreling with one another. Once in a while, they take a break from politics to wallow in celebrity gossip, complain about women or insult each others' preferences in old rock bands.
    But then I came to Unz to read Peter Frost, Jayman and Razib Khan, and didn't even know Steve Sailer had a blog. My ears perk up when he writes about science, statistics, golf or baseball, and sag when he gets political. Well, except for Merkel's boner. BOHICA, Germany!
    Heh.
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  58. @Davidski

    Are there parts of Asia, such as islands, where hunter-gatherers wiped out all the tigers?
     
    Possibly in the Philippines, but that's highly speculative.

    In fact, Tigers re-colonized much of Asia, as far as what is now Ukraine, from southern China/Indo-China only about 12,000 years ago. So they would have met a lot of human hunter-gatherers and eventually even farmers along the way, and that didn't stop them. See here...

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0004125

    And they were doing really well in arid Central Asia, living along rivers and lakes, often close to people, and ate a lot of domesticated sheep, horses and even camels. They were also very common on Java and Bali in Indonesia until very recently, where they were also a nuisance to the growing populations.

    They only became extinct in Central Asia and on the two Sunda islands when the Russian and Dutch colonizers, respectively, brought in a lot of modern firearms and poison, and got the locals to clear most of the forests.

    Dski, there are photos from Colonial and Raj India where hunters are posed with the skins of dozens of tigers. Amazing that there any Indian tigers left on that continent.

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  59. @Steve Sailer
    Cochran says that every tribe could quickly grasp the usefulness of the bow and arrow, unlike, say, literacy. The Eskimos didn't bring literacy with them to the new world when they arrived pretty late, because a lot of tribes hadn't seen much point in it. But everybody could see the value of the bow and arrow.

    My guess is that that the problem slowing the spread of the bow and arrow to the new world was the lack of good sized trees in the Bering Strait area.

    Steve, Eskimos, now known as Inuit, must have been the most resourceful people on the planet. Lacking wood, they used bone. I read when lacking both bone and wood they used frozen fish as sled runners. A great read is Peter Freuchen’s “Book of the Eskimo.”

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    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    Stop coddling the canucks. Only the canuck eskimos are inuit, they like to pretend they are the only Aleut-Eskimo group and get offended by making it all about them when you call them eskimos, even if you weren't talking about them.

    Tell them to suck syrup and support your Alaskan Eskimos.
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  60. @James Braxton
    I'd bet they would set huge fires on the grasslands to trap the beasts.

    James, the Plains Indian, before the arrival of the horse, set fires and drove buffalo over cliffs or into ravines.

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  61. Am I the only person here who recoils at the usage “to go extinct”?
    In my day and long before the common usage was “to be extinct”.
    “To be or not to be” is surely what extinction is all about?
    “When did the sabre tooth tiger become extinct?” There, that’s better.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    "Die out" works for me.
    , @Whoever

    Am I the only person here who recoils at the usage “to go extinct”?
     
    No, you're not. Traditional American usage had it that, for example, the North American megafauna became extinct, not went extinct. I suppose the comparison would be with, for example, someone becoming rich or becoming poor -- transitioning from one condition to another, not going somewhere.
    I always have assumed that the "to go extinct" usage was a Britishism that infiltrated our language in recent years, much the way other terms and usages have. In times past, the news would report, say, that Judge Crater had disappeared, not that he had gone missing; an airplane would park on the ramp, not the tarmac. And in bygone days, a good old boy would have had Scotch-Irish roots, same as he would have worn Scotch plaid and eaten butterscotch pudding. No one would have said he was "Scots-Irish." I've seen a handbill printed in the mid-18th century seeking information on a runaway servant that described him as "speaking with a Scotch-Irish accent," so the usage is at least that old.
    I listen to a lot of old-time radio, watch a lot of old movies and read a lot of old books. Going by those, the American usages seem to have held their own until sometime in the 1980s. I don't know what could have caused the British language influence then. Mouseterpiece Theater?
    We don't speak the way we used to, or use the same once-common phrases. No one says "easy does it" anymore, or greets someone by saying, "What do you hear, what do you know, what do you say?" Nor do they "ankle" into a bar, or snarl, "One step closer copper, and the frail gets it!"
    The other day, I was listening to a Jack Benny radio show ("Brought to you by J-E-L-L-O!") from May, 1941, and bandleader Phil Harris described something as "groovy." Benny didn't understand and Harris explained, "You know, groovy, like in the groove, dad. Groovy!" So "groovy" seems to have been a new American coinage, then, although I've read Brits writing that "groovy" is British slang from the 1960s.
    In any case, to me, "groovy" is an old term for "fun, happy, nice, good," as the term is used in that hippy-dippy sixties song, "Groovy Kind of Love," and "in the groove" to me is an old term for doing something correctly, skillfully, exactly right -- on fleek. In my mind, it is related to that other old phrase, "on the beam," an aviation radio-navigation term used by Kookie Burns when he sang that he was "beamed in on Dreamsville."
    But when "groovy" was coined, it apparently was merely a shortening of the phrase "in the groove," and didn't mean what it came to mean a generation later.
    Anyways...whatevs, huh?
    https://youtu.be/hpABRTn6kSA
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  62. Seeing a bull elephant at a zoo makes the idea of hunting mammoths seem rather daunting (though, according to the article below, they certainly had the right tools to do it). Ain’t no way I’d ever come up to one with a pointy stick. I can’t imagine any species capable of routinely taking down mammoths having much issue with large cats.

    https://twilightbeasts.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/clovis-hunting-an-african-elephant/

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  63. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @RichardTaylor
    ONLY White people kill things. Does everyone not get this?

    Indians loved all creatures and lived in, uh, harmony with nature. My social studies teacher told me so. She was a Nice White Lady.

    My guess is that the Saber-Toothed Tigers sensed the climate change White people would bring about in about 10,000 years, and opted for suicide.

    And all the while I thought that our red brothers and sisters led such Edenic lives until those White European devils started hopping off the boats.

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  64. @Anonymous
    Humans, always and everywhere, display every single characteristic of a monstrous cancer upon the globe.

    Now granted, some are worse than others--how else could it be otherwise? But the story remains the same: wherever humans go, they destroy the natural world.

    If we had one or two billion humans on the planet instead of eight or nine, we could all live like Republicans.

    Anonymous, Jacques Cousteau, PBS’s aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world’s total population at 250 million. Nice guy, huh?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    That's universal among the elite and they're still pretty open about it. Nobody with a journalism degree seems to be able to connect this to the constant push for automation and UBI.
    , @Eagle Eye

    Jacques Cousteau, PBS’s aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world’s total population at 250 million.
     
    Eugenics was a universally popular creed, often with quasi-religious undertones, of "nice" upper crust people on both sides of the Atlantic until well into the 1940s. Americans will be familiar with Margaret Sanger's "Negro Project" of reducing the black population through targeted birth control and abortion, with the active help of black clergy and other "community leaders."

    The popularity of such ideas among the soi-disant elites remained strong over the following decades, although public discussion was muted due to the association of racial doctrines with the lately discredited National Socialist cult.

    In the 21st century, the idea of implementing a New World Order as a preliminary to culling deplorables and others not deemed sufficiently subservient and useful to the billionaire class is enjoying an renaissance, including highly organized efforts to subvert the "lower classes" through targeted mass migration, drug addiction, and government propaganda.


    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.
     
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  65. Today, North American mountain lions (panthers, cougars, painters, pumas, etc.) really, really don’t like being around people. They’re quite dangerous when confronted by people, but they go out of their way to avoid confrontations.

    Luv ya, but this is just not true. Just as wolves don’t hunt caribou till they run out of easy pickens like rats, other large carnivores also don’t pick large prey if they don’t have to. Bears eat fish and berries as long as there are enough. Critters are just as lazy as we are. They don’t want a big fight, just dinner. And no, they aren’t afraid of people, they just don’t want to get in a fight for nothing, and any fairly large critter could potentially be a fight.

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  66. Common sense and a bit of Occam’s Razor pares down the mystery considerably.

    The predatory megafauna probably died off from a combination of 1. dwindling food resources and 2. attempting to prey on the humans who ate their food.

    Lack of bow and arrow development seems to make sense in this context; how many arrows would it take to kill an elephant vs. how many spears? Bow and arrows are time (and resource) consuming to develop, not to mention they’re more useful for killing smaller prey—not to mention warfare. If humans were feeding off of large prey, spears/javelins would be considerably more effective.

    There’s the defensive component of throwing spears to consider as well. You can stab a tiger from a safer distance with spear than with an arrow.

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  67. J.Ross says: • Website

    In the time it takes for Dopey to die like a man, short as that is, Doc, Sleepy and Grumpy can ram spears home.

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  68. @conatus
    Jared Diamond, in discussing the backwardness of the aboriginal peoples in the
    Americas makes a big deal out the lack of big animals that were able to be domesticated in the Western hemisphere. But he neglects to mention that the Indians in the new World apparently ate the horse to death and that is why there were no h0rses to tame.
    https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2012/11/29/why-did-horses-die-out-in-north-america/
    It is hard for academics to understand that any other race other than Whites are capable of causing extinctions. In Jared's mind it is inconceivable, nay impossible! for People of color to eat the horse to death and cause its extinction in the Americas.
    Thus hobbled by horse-meat eating the aboriginal Americans imagined the Spaniards to be mangods upon those four legs.

    conatus, I just stopped reading a book about the Indians of the Iroquois Federation. The authors mentioned that the Mohawks and Seneca fought on opposite sides in the American Revolution. First time in CENTURIES, according to the authors, that these tribes had fought. Yeah right. the Mohawks and Seneca still don’t like each other.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    I guess all those French padres didn't really see them killing, cooking and eating their neighbors. White men are uniquely warlike in that nobody really can fight until Europeans come along. Before that it's all big potlaches, barbeques, friendly get-togethers and religious ceremonies where people spontaneously sprout flowers when cut instead of bleeding.
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  69. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, Jacques Cousteau, PBS's aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world's total population at 250 million. Nice guy, huh?

    That’s universal among the elite and they’re still pretty open about it. Nobody with a journalism degree seems to be able to connect this to the constant push for automation and UBI.

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  70. TWS says:

    People seem bound and determined to sell the paleo Indians short as hunters. In a thousand years they could easily hunt hundreds of species to extinction. In two thousand years all that are left are the little versions that were always cannier and more cautious than the bigger versions. Like wolves and coyotes.

    The big bison, elephants, big carnivores, all were too easy for organized bands of humans to hunt down. So we had a big barbeque from the north to the south. Tasty critters is tasty critters.

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  71. I have an Seneca acquaintance who lives on the nearby reservation. I asked him once if he was going hunting on opening day of deer season. He looked at me and laughed…”There is no opening day because there are no “seasons” on the res.”

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    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @TWS
    I ate more venison and salmon growing up than beef and tuna. Open season was when the freezer was getting empty.
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  72. TWS says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    conatus, I just stopped reading a book about the Indians of the Iroquois Federation. The authors mentioned that the Mohawks and Seneca fought on opposite sides in the American Revolution. First time in CENTURIES, according to the authors, that these tribes had fought. Yeah right. the Mohawks and Seneca still don't like each other.

    I guess all those French padres didn’t really see them killing, cooking and eating their neighbors. White men are uniquely warlike in that nobody really can fight until Europeans come along. Before that it’s all big potlaches, barbeques, friendly get-togethers and religious ceremonies where people spontaneously sprout flowers when cut instead of bleeding.

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    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
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  73. I really doubt the Bering Land Bridge theory. To accept it is to accept that humankind started in Africa and spread over the planet. The idea is that we are all originally Africans who evolved into distinct races, becoming white, yellow or red according to where our ancestors ended up.

    Archaeologists are champions at jumping to conclusions about the time periods their finds originated, just as anthropologists are about motivations and capabilities of people who lived in prehistoric times.

    I think that all this stuff is just a guessing game. Your guess is no more valid than mine.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I really doubt the Bering Land Bridge theory.
     
    LOL. There were a lot of other 'land bridges' you're gonna have to doubt then too. Tectonic plates gonna get ya. Hey are you the guy who says man didn't walk on the moon?
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  74. TWS says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    I have an Seneca acquaintance who lives on the nearby reservation. I asked him once if he was going hunting on opening day of deer season. He looked at me and laughed..."There is no opening day because there are no "seasons" on the res."

    I ate more venison and salmon growing up than beef and tuna. Open season was when the freezer was getting empty.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    TWS, you can get a permit to fish on the Cattaraugus Res, but no white eyes can hunt there.
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  75. @dearieme
    Is the cheetah Big or Small?

    Is the cheetah Big or Small?

    Big

    A shrew or ferret is small.

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  76. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Speaking of bears wandering into town for an easy snack and swim in the pool, I wonder if the selection pressures are for amiability with humans at this point.

    I feel sorta bad for hunters trying to recreate that old Stone Age vibe. For example, they don't really hunt deer, they harvest deer. I used to watch turkey hunters bundled up sitting in blinds at dawn on the old Outdoor Network. You can do that, or you can just pick them off from your golf cart at 10 a.m. when they stroll onto the green at your lake/mountain community.

    Big, dangerous predators are probably doomed.

    In the Midwest, illegal mestizos hunt geese in an expedient fashion. They walk out to a pond in full view of all and sundry and bait them with bread or provoke the geese to attack them, then swing a line drive to the goose’s neck with a suitable object such as a discarded camshaft. They throw the goose in a bag and run for the nearest hide or a vehicle driven by an amigo.

    Cops look the other way since the geese are pests and they can’t make money busting mestizoes.

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    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Good for them. Geese are a pest, they are everywhere, and are probably delicious when prepared correctly.

    If they taste anything like duck, I ought to take up goose hunting myself. I find duck delicious.
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  77. @Buffalo Joe
    Steve, Eskimos, now known as Inuit, must have been the most resourceful people on the planet. Lacking wood, they used bone. I read when lacking both bone and wood they used frozen fish as sled runners. A great read is Peter Freuchen's "Book of the Eskimo."

    Stop coddling the canucks. Only the canuck eskimos are inuit, they like to pretend they are the only Aleut-Eskimo group and get offended by making it all about them when you call them eskimos, even if you weren’t talking about them.

    Tell them to suck syrup and support your Alaskan Eskimos.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Lars, too funny but Canadians rarely listen to Yanks.
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  78. istevefan says:

    Maybe they will admit the Indians killed off the major North American predators and then use that to take credit for the future development of the continent. By eliminating the super predators they “broke trail” for the later arriving Europeans.

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  79. @Old Palo Altan
    Am I the only person here who recoils at the usage "to go extinct"?
    In my day and long before the common usage was "to be extinct".
    "To be or not to be" is surely what extinction is all about?
    "When did the sabre tooth tiger become extinct?" There, that's better.

    “Die out” works for me.

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  80. @Redpill Angel
    The current scientific consensus is that the Clovis people, with their nifty fluted spear points, managed to kill off >all< the large fauna in both North and South America in 1,000 years, an unlikely scenario, it seems to me. A few rogue scientists, including Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian, have suggested that the Clovis people came from Europe and North Africa, since their arrow heads resemble Solutrean points, but their ideas have unfortunately become heavily politicized and shouted down. And lately, some have even suggested a comet hit the NA ice sheet in 10,600 BC and killed off both the Clovis people and the large fauna, an idea supported by a good deal of real evidence, in spite of being written about by the interesting but slightly out-there Graham Hancock. https://cosmictusk.com/

    Good to see that catastrophism is still alive and well. There’s a letter on that Tusk site from Bill Napier, whose “The Cosmic Serpent” with Victor Clube fascinated me decades ago. Good to see both of them are still going.

    https://cosmictusk.com/open-letter-napier-joe-rogan-podcast/

    http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/clubenap.htm

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  81. Totally unrelated but I just found this on Vox:

    https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/1/11/16875028/me-too-racism-reckoning

    Basically it seems they’re trying to set us up for a precedent where any past allegations of “racially insensitive” comments is grounds for the #metoo treatment.

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  82. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Indians would have had to kill predators like saber-toothed tigers just to make the New World safe for their children. Predators with no fear of humans would have swarmed right towards Indian camps looking for something to eat, and distracted, playing children would be an easy target.

    Once Indians had honed their hunting skills, killing large, stupid animals like giant sloths would have been easy pickings. However, the Indians didn’t even make a dent in the buffalo population, which may have actually increased in number and taken over the range of other less-tough, grass-eating herd animals if they had been hunted out.

    Nonetheless, doing all your hunting without guns or horses to ride is not easy, and that’s what Indians had to do before the arrival of whites.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "However, the Indians didn’t even make a dent in the buffalo population, which may have actually increased in number and taken over the range of other less-tough, grass-eating herd animals if they had been hunted out."

    Or perhaps the bison were mostly exterminated, but managed to survive in enough numbers to come back when they no longer had to compete for forage with elephants, etc. The Great Plains when the white man arrived looked like an odd monoculture with zillions of bison, instead of the biodiversity seen in, say, the Serengeti grasslands.

    , @Farenheit
    Here in the Bay Area, I once went to one of the local little museums dedicated to the pre-Euro peoples. I remember being mildly shocked when I learned that they dug their foundations for their thatched huts 4 foot deep, because that was deep enough to keep bears (Grizzly Bears) from reaching in and grabbing their children.
    So at least in Northern California, even a couple hundred years ago, the natives had not yet reached "Apex predator" status.
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  83. Daniel H says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Mountain lions (cougars) are indeed shy. I live in the Oakland hills and the city government has posted signs in the woods behind my house, to beware of the cougars. Yet I have never actually seen one of these big cats in over twenty years living here. We have lots of deer, turkeys and raccoons but you never see cougars or bears around here.

    Actually cougars are not big cats. The big cats are lions, tigers, leopards and jaguars. The leopard is the smallest of the big cats while the cougar is the largest of the small cats. Cougars are actually a bit bigger than African leopards. But cougars are mild mannered and shy around people while leopards are dangerous and deadly.

    I've never seen a cougar in the thick woods that runs for miles along the ridge line but I have occasionally seen dead deer that have been partially eaten. That could be cougars or possibly coyotes.

    Cougars with ample food source can grow quite large. Check out this cougar killed in the Canadian Rockies by a hunter. Would not have wanted to be stalked by him. BTW, I disapprove of the hunting of cougars. What is the point? A trophy? Deer? Yes. Moose? Yes. They are consumed as food and are delicious and abundant, but nobody eats cougar. They are magnificent creatures, let them be.

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    • Disagree: TWS
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    So-called 'hunters' like that should be fair game.
    , @TWS
    Plenty of people eat cougar. It used to be popular around here until city people made it illegal.
    , @dr kill
    Must be related to this guy. I know for a fact that hunters don't lie, it's those fishermen who lie.

    http://www.toledoblade.com/image/2007/05/26/600x600/11-year-old-hunter-bags-1-050-lb-wild-boar-with-50-caliber-pistol.jpg
    , @SteveRogers42
    If these mighty hunters want to re-enact the Stone Age, more power to them. However, they should be forced to do so with Stone Age weapons:

    https://idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/xtreme_idaho/the-man-who-killed-a--pound-jaguar-with-only/article_c0fc300e-0301-5322-9556-4e2760366cd5.html

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  84. Daniel H says:
    @Anonymous
    In the Midwest, illegal mestizos hunt geese in an expedient fashion. They walk out to a pond in full view of all and sundry and bait them with bread or provoke the geese to attack them, then swing a line drive to the goose’s neck with a suitable object such as a discarded camshaft. They throw the goose in a bag and run for the nearest hide or a vehicle driven by an amigo.

    Cops look the other way since the geese are pests and they can’t make money busting mestizoes.

    Good for them. Geese are a pest, they are everywhere, and are probably delicious when prepared correctly.

    If they taste anything like duck, I ought to take up goose hunting myself. I find duck delicious.

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  85. Alex77 says:

    http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article193871684.html

    OT: Thoughts on the fact that the most important person fighting against a flood of immigration is a Jew? When Jews rise to the top of the Left, as would be expected for a high IQ group, it’s a big deal in these corners, but what about Jews on the Right? Granted Jews tend to be liberal for the most part, but that’s to be expected of a group living on the coasts and having spent many years in college and grad schools. Still, the Leftist Jews tend to be anti-Jewish, better known as the “self-hating Jews.” Liberal Jews, particularly young ones, tend to hate their fellow Jews as much as they hate their fellow whites (with few exceptions). By and large, Jews who support the flooding of the US with immigrants also support Africans flooding Israel and passionately justify Palestinian terrorism. Meanwhile Jews who are pro-Israel tend to have right-wing views in general. Bibi Netanyahu sided with Viktor Orban over George Soros, he’s close to Putin and hostile to Scandinavian liberals, and is rumored to have celebrated Trump defeating Hillary. Pro-Israel Jews, including Israelis and Russian Jews, have views many here would agree with. Yes, it may be shocking for you to read this because alt-right and related sites keep talking about Russian Jews being involved with the Bolsheviks 100 years ago, but this is 2018 and not 1917, and Russian Jews who live in the US voted for Trump in higher numbers than ANY other demographic, including the Evangelicals – and they did it for many of the alt-right reasons: keeping America majority-white, anti-BLM, anti-feminism, etc.

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  86. @Anon
    Indians would have had to kill predators like saber-toothed tigers just to make the New World safe for their children. Predators with no fear of humans would have swarmed right towards Indian camps looking for something to eat, and distracted, playing children would be an easy target.

    Once Indians had honed their hunting skills, killing large, stupid animals like giant sloths would have been easy pickings. However, the Indians didn't even make a dent in the buffalo population, which may have actually increased in number and taken over the range of other less-tough, grass-eating herd animals if they had been hunted out.

    Nonetheless, doing all your hunting without guns or horses to ride is not easy, and that's what Indians had to do before the arrival of whites.

    “However, the Indians didn’t even make a dent in the buffalo population, which may have actually increased in number and taken over the range of other less-tough, grass-eating herd animals if they had been hunted out.”

    Or perhaps the bison were mostly exterminated, but managed to survive in enough numbers to come back when they no longer had to compete for forage with elephants, etc. The Great Plains when the white man arrived looked like an odd monoculture with zillions of bison, instead of the biodiversity seen in, say, the Serengeti grasslands.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    There was a big die off of the apex predator in the Americas after the arrival of Columbus. Some tribes just disappeared. Deer, bison, elk all brought up their numbers for a while. Losing most of your most effective predators will do that.
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  87. Whoever says: • Website
    @Old Palo Altan
    Am I the only person here who recoils at the usage "to go extinct"?
    In my day and long before the common usage was "to be extinct".
    "To be or not to be" is surely what extinction is all about?
    "When did the sabre tooth tiger become extinct?" There, that's better.

    Am I the only person here who recoils at the usage “to go extinct”?

    No, you’re not. Traditional American usage had it that, for example, the North American megafauna became extinct, not went extinct. I suppose the comparison would be with, for example, someone becoming rich or becoming poor — transitioning from one condition to another, not going somewhere.
    I always have assumed that the “to go extinct” usage was a Britishism that infiltrated our language in recent years, much the way other terms and usages have. In times past, the news would report, say, that Judge Crater had disappeared, not that he had gone missing; an airplane would park on the ramp, not the tarmac. And in bygone days, a good old boy would have had Scotch-Irish roots, same as he would have worn Scotch plaid and eaten butterscotch pudding. No one would have said he was “Scots-Irish.” I’ve seen a handbill printed in the mid-18th century seeking information on a runaway servant that described him as “speaking with a Scotch-Irish accent,” so the usage is at least that old.
    I listen to a lot of old-time radio, watch a lot of old movies and read a lot of old books. Going by those, the American usages seem to have held their own until sometime in the 1980s. I don’t know what could have caused the British language influence then. Mouseterpiece Theater?
    We don’t speak the way we used to, or use the same once-common phrases. No one says “easy does it” anymore, or greets someone by saying, “What do you hear, what do you know, what do you say?” Nor do they “ankle” into a bar, or snarl, “One step closer copper, and the frail gets it!”
    The other day, I was listening to a Jack Benny radio show (“Brought to you by J-E-L-L-O!”) from May, 1941, and bandleader Phil Harris described something as “groovy.” Benny didn’t understand and Harris explained, “You know, groovy, like in the groove, dad. Groovy!” So “groovy” seems to have been a new American coinage, then, although I’ve read Brits writing that “groovy” is British slang from the 1960s.
    In any case, to me, “groovy” is an old term for “fun, happy, nice, good,” as the term is used in that hippy-dippy sixties song, “Groovy Kind of Love,” and “in the groove” to me is an old term for doing something correctly, skillfully, exactly right — on fleek. In my mind, it is related to that other old phrase, “on the beam,” an aviation radio-navigation term used by Kookie Burns when he sang that he was “beamed in on Dreamsville.”
    But when “groovy” was coined, it apparently was merely a shortening of the phrase “in the groove,” and didn’t mean what it came to mean a generation later.
    Anyways…whatevs, huh?

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    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    I say we actively work to bring back the tough-guy Bogart/Cagney slang from the '30's, but with one alteration: "Frail" would make a perfect addition to the current lexicon when describing the testosterone-challenged soyboys and small-souled bugmen of the Current Year.

    The gender role-reversal would just be icing on the cake.
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  88. TG says:

    Interesting post.

    Yes, one way the ancient humans could have gotten rid of all those big predators would be to have eaten their food – i.e., out-competed them.

    It also needs to be remembered, that prey animals are not defenseless. When a predator chases a prey species, BOTH animal’s lives are at risk. The prey for obvious reasons. The predator because, if it misses enough, it will die. The rabbit that gets away strikes a serious blow at the wolf or cat that was chasing it.

    So one way that humans could have gotten rid of those big predators: we were more difficult prey than the species we replaced.

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  89. Svigor says:

    Funny, I was just reading up on extinct megafauna a few days ago. Saw an article about how dire hyenas (my term, forget what they’re called) might’ve been a serious check on human population growth. Something about being twice the size of modern hyenas, and competing for a scavenging niche we were in.

    I didn’t get around to bears so I did a quick check; the extinct prehistoric ones weren’t much bigger than polar bears. Big bears are a lot more intimidating than great cats. But (tool-using) humans are the most efficient killers. 2500 lbs of short-faced bear is about 16 150 lb human males. That’s enough that I’d bet on the men killing the bear without taking any casualties.

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    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>That’s enough that I’d bet on the men killing the bear without taking any casualties.

    I wouldn't be so sure about taking no casualties. One swipe of the paw, crush of the jaw will, if not kill a man, could seriously wound him, a would that would likely lead to death in a time without antibiotics or advanced surgical techniques.

    Hunting parties probably knew that 1 to several of their members could be seriously wounded, but it was worth the risk because it would provide much needed fresh protein for the rest of the group. Overall, it was a win to hunt these dangerous animals.
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  90. @Logan
    The extermination of two continents worth of megafauna by a few raggedy Indians has always seems far-fetched. But it's happened repeatedly elsewhere, to mention just a few Madagascar, Australia, Tasmania, New Zealand.

    Nowhere else on such an incredible scale, to be sure.

    In many places fire was a major factor in the decline of megafuna. Human hunters set fire to forests to drive away ambush predators like leopards and encourage prey animals that feed on young shoots (as well as harvesting shoots and tubers for their own consumption).

    However, as far as I’m aware fire doesn’t seem to have been used that extensively in stone-age North America.

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    • Replies: @Logan
    1491, a book by Michael Mann about the history of the American prior to the obvioius date.

    Fire was very widely used for thousands of years, to the extent that entire ecosystems developed around regular burning. Various oddities of the America ecosystem during the 19th century, such as the enormous buffalo herds and flocks of passenger pigeons, may be related to the great reduction in numbers of the apex predator Indians and a resultant massive reduction in burning.

    Similar factors may apply in parts of S. America.

    Book is highly recommended. Relatively uncorrupted by PCness.
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  91. Whoever says: • Website
    @Berty
    I like how DACA is on the verge of happening and all Steve can talk about is stupid bullshit like this.

    To each his own. I find this sort of thing enormously interesting, and, although I’ve heard the term, I don’t know what DACA is and haven’t read the threads about it, because political yak-yak bores me; it just seems to be peevish cubicle maggots quarreling with one another. Once in a while, they take a break from politics to wallow in celebrity gossip, complain about women or insult each others’ preferences in old rock bands.
    But then I came to Unz to read Peter Frost, Jayman and Razib Khan, and didn’t even know Steve Sailer had a blog. My ears perk up when he writes about science, statistics, golf or baseball, and sag when he gets political. Well, except for Merkel’s boner. BOHICA, Germany!
    Heh.

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  92. Svigor says:

    Then there is the horn and wood composite bow.

    Which, IIRC, only does well in low-humidity climes. FWIW.

    Pumas will follow humans for miles or observe them for long periods out of curiosity.

    Short walk to wondering if curiosity is a predator’s trait. On the other hand, I have noticed that housecats seem much more curious than dogs.

    There’s the defensive component of throwing spears to consider as well. You can stab a tiger from a safer distance with spear than with an arrow.

    Hunters could have carried both, or carried a mix in groups. Shoulder bow, carry spear, see target, drop spear and use bow, as threat closes, drop bow and pick spear back up.

    I guess all those French padres didn’t really see them killing, cooking and eating their neighbors. White men are uniquely warlike in that nobody really can fight until Europeans come along. Before that it’s all big potlaches, barbeques, friendly get-togethers and religious ceremonies where people spontaneously sprout flowers when cut instead of bleeding.

    White Man’s biggest crime = good record-keeping. All the parts leftist don’t like were lies – the rest is grist for the mill.

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  93. Svigor says:

    When Jews rise to the top of the Left, as would be expected for a high IQ group, it’s a big deal in these corners, but what about Jews on the Right?

    Wait, what? First please explain the part where a Jew rising in the leftist ranks is newsworthy in these parts.

    Granted Jews tend to be liberal for the most part, but that’s to be expected of a group living on the coasts and having spent many years in college and grad schools.

    This reminds me of how leftists blame low Black IQ on education and poverty. And how “race realist” and “HBD aware” Jews turn leftist again (and deploy leftist arguments) when the subject changes from Blacks to Jews.

    Still, the Leftist Jews tend to be anti-Jewish, better known as the “self-hating Jews.”

    Horseshit.

    By and large, Jews who support the flooding of the US with immigrants also support Africans flooding Israel and passionately justify Palestinian terrorism.

    Paraphrasing: “I have spent the last few years developing an immunity to iocaine.” Israel ain’t buying, at all, quite the opposite, so the bit of lip service diaspora Jews pay here does more to put a fig leaf on themselves than actually attempt to change the Israelis. That’s really the salient part of the handful of Jews who criticize Israeli immigration policy; right here, in this kind of venue, is where the fact is most used.

    Meanwhile Jews who are pro-Israel tend to have right-wing views in general.

    Diaspora Jews are pro-Israel and against borders for Whitey.

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  94. Svigor says:

    If diaspora Jews wanted to open Israel’s borders, they could always cut off the billions we give to Israel (and say Egypt for playing nice with Israel) until the Israelis comply. I don’t think they want Israel to open her borders.

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  95. @Steve Sailer
    Cochran says that every tribe could quickly grasp the usefulness of the bow and arrow, unlike, say, literacy. The Eskimos didn't bring literacy with them to the new world when they arrived pretty late, because a lot of tribes hadn't seen much point in it. But everybody could see the value of the bow and arrow.

    My guess is that that the problem slowing the spread of the bow and arrow to the new world was the lack of good sized trees in the Bering Strait area.

    You don’t need a forest of yew trees to make bows. Plains Indian bows were quite short and didn’t require large trees to make. They were powerful and lent themselves to quick followup shots. Even in Siberia it’s not too hard to find three foot lengths of decent wood. BTW Eskimos with no access to living wood made due with washed up whalebone and driftwood to make pretty much everything they have.

    As someone said, an atlatl is a powerful weapon and is pretty long ranged. Atlatls had superior penetration I believe. At least that’s what scientists demonstrating them on TV found. My guess is that as game animals became smaller the bow was found to be handier.

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  96. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike
    Excuse me sir, could you tell where the swimming pool is?

    https://youtu.be/8jRTrRxamxQ

    OMG that is so sweet.

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  97. Farenheit says:
    @Anon
    Indians would have had to kill predators like saber-toothed tigers just to make the New World safe for their children. Predators with no fear of humans would have swarmed right towards Indian camps looking for something to eat, and distracted, playing children would be an easy target.

    Once Indians had honed their hunting skills, killing large, stupid animals like giant sloths would have been easy pickings. However, the Indians didn't even make a dent in the buffalo population, which may have actually increased in number and taken over the range of other less-tough, grass-eating herd animals if they had been hunted out.

    Nonetheless, doing all your hunting without guns or horses to ride is not easy, and that's what Indians had to do before the arrival of whites.

    Here in the Bay Area, I once went to one of the local little museums dedicated to the pre-Euro peoples. I remember being mildly shocked when I learned that they dug their foundations for their thatched huts 4 foot deep, because that was deep enough to keep bears (Grizzly Bears) from reaching in and grabbing their children.
    So at least in Northern California, even a couple hundred years ago, the natives had not yet reached “Apex predator” status.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There's a painting from the middle of the 19th Century of Californios on horseback lassoing a grizzly bear in the middle of the San Fernando Valley where I live.

    The grizzly bear is on California's state flag but is extinct in California because it is so dangerous to humans. After it was wiped out, black bears migrated into California and they are pretty good at not making themselves too dangerous to humans, although they are little too accustomed to human presence. When I went camping once, a black bear came through our campsite every night for a week sniffing for food. I didn't believe my poor terrified wife until I woke up on the last night and heard the bear about two feet away on the outside of the tent.

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  98. utu says:

    big predators in Africa and Eurasia know in their genes that Man is dangerous.

    I have problem believing this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not hard to believe. Remember the famous experiment in Russia where foxes were bred to become outgoing in a few generations.
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  99. Eagle Eye says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, Jacques Cousteau, PBS's aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world's total population at 250 million. Nice guy, huh?

    Jacques Cousteau, PBS’s aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world’s total population at 250 million.

    Eugenics was a universally popular creed, often with quasi-religious undertones, of “nice” upper crust people on both sides of the Atlantic until well into the 1940s. Americans will be familiar with Margaret Sanger’s “Negro Project” of reducing the black population through targeted birth control and abortion, with the active help of black clergy and other “community leaders.”

    The popularity of such ideas among the soi-disant elites remained strong over the following decades, although public discussion was muted due to the association of racial doctrines with the lately discredited National Socialist cult.

    In the 21st century, the idea of implementing a New World Order as a preliminary to culling deplorables and others not deemed sufficiently subservient and useful to the billionaire class is enjoying an renaissance, including highly organized efforts to subvert the “lower classes” through targeted mass migration, drug addiction, and government propaganda.

    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.
     
    Promises promises! I'll believe it when I see it.

    https://gucomox.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/cheryltunt.jpg
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Eagle, thank you for the excellent reply.
    , @Anonymous
    Eugenics would still be a popular creed if people had any sense.

    Eugenics just means "good breeding". It doesn't mean killing people or necessarily even practicing any involuntary methods. Voluntary methods with incentives would still give tremendous benefit at reasonable costs.
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  100. Daniel H says:
    @Svigor
    Funny, I was just reading up on extinct megafauna a few days ago. Saw an article about how dire hyenas (my term, forget what they're called) might've been a serious check on human population growth. Something about being twice the size of modern hyenas, and competing for a scavenging niche we were in.

    I didn't get around to bears so I did a quick check; the extinct prehistoric ones weren't much bigger than polar bears. Big bears are a lot more intimidating than great cats. But (tool-using) humans are the most efficient killers. 2500 lbs of short-faced bear is about 16 150 lb human males. That's enough that I'd bet on the men killing the bear without taking any casualties.

    >>That’s enough that I’d bet on the men killing the bear without taking any casualties.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about taking no casualties. One swipe of the paw, crush of the jaw will, if not kill a man, could seriously wound him, a would that would likely lead to death in a time without antibiotics or advanced surgical techniques.

    Hunting parties probably knew that 1 to several of their members could be seriously wounded, but it was worth the risk because it would provide much needed fresh protein for the rest of the group. Overall, it was a win to hunt these dangerous animals.

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  101. @Farenheit
    Here in the Bay Area, I once went to one of the local little museums dedicated to the pre-Euro peoples. I remember being mildly shocked when I learned that they dug their foundations for their thatched huts 4 foot deep, because that was deep enough to keep bears (Grizzly Bears) from reaching in and grabbing their children.
    So at least in Northern California, even a couple hundred years ago, the natives had not yet reached "Apex predator" status.

    There’s a painting from the middle of the 19th Century of Californios on horseback lassoing a grizzly bear in the middle of the San Fernando Valley where I live.

    The grizzly bear is on California’s state flag but is extinct in California because it is so dangerous to humans. After it was wiped out, black bears migrated into California and they are pretty good at not making themselves too dangerous to humans, although they are little too accustomed to human presence. When I went camping once, a black bear came through our campsite every night for a week sniffing for food. I didn’t believe my poor terrified wife until I woke up on the last night and heard the bear about two feet away on the outside of the tent.

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  102. Daniel H says:

    Remains of Atlatls have been found in every primitive culture in the world. I believe that the conception of the Atlatl is so intuitive that common sense of the human species led to its development on many occasions without the need of interact or cultural transference.

    When I was a kid, we always used to make spears out of wooden sticks and branches and throw them, to see how far we could get them to fly. I remember once, never having read or hear of an Atlatl, taking a length of rope, making a loop of about 18 inches, attaching the base of the spear to the back of the loop, holding the front of the loop and spear with the same grip and letting fly the spear, releasing the grip on the spear as my arm moved forward. Voila, an Atlatl. That spear flew further and faster than any of those of my buddies. Not perfect. More could have been done, especially using a slender spear with a weighted arrow point, but the basic idea was there.

    How did I figure that out? Just common sense understanding of the power of leverage and using a simply available tool (the rope) to improve a rudimentary device.

    Atlatl’s are dangerous, though. If children are playing with them, instruct them to use them on a target range and don’t play “army” with their friends using them. There is enough force in a hurled Atlatl to sink deep into the human body.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Werner Herzog tries to throw a spear with an atlatl in his documentary The Cave of Forgotten Dreams. It's goes about as well a Mariah Carey throwing out a ceremonial first pitch at the World Series.
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  103. @Daniel H
    Remains of Atlatls have been found in every primitive culture in the world. I believe that the conception of the Atlatl is so intuitive that common sense of the human species led to its development on many occasions without the need of interact or cultural transference.

    When I was a kid, we always used to make spears out of wooden sticks and branches and throw them, to see how far we could get them to fly. I remember once, never having read or hear of an Atlatl, taking a length of rope, making a loop of about 18 inches, attaching the base of the spear to the back of the loop, holding the front of the loop and spear with the same grip and letting fly the spear, releasing the grip on the spear as my arm moved forward. Voila, an Atlatl. That spear flew further and faster than any of those of my buddies. Not perfect. More could have been done, especially using a slender spear with a weighted arrow point, but the basic idea was there.

    How did I figure that out? Just common sense understanding of the power of leverage and using a simply available tool (the rope) to improve a rudimentary device.

    Atlatl's are dangerous, though. If children are playing with them, instruct them to use them on a target range and don't play "army" with their friends using them. There is enough force in a hurled Atlatl to sink deep into the human body.

    Werner Herzog tries to throw a spear with an atlatl in his documentary The Cave of Forgotten Dreams. It’s goes about as well a Mariah Carey throwing out a ceremonial first pitch at the World Series.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    It's not easy learning primitive weapons. A club or spear are probably the two most instinctive.
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  104. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @conatus
    Jared Diamond, in discussing the backwardness of the aboriginal peoples in the
    Americas makes a big deal out the lack of big animals that were able to be domesticated in the Western hemisphere. But he neglects to mention that the Indians in the new World apparently ate the horse to death and that is why there were no h0rses to tame.
    https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2012/11/29/why-did-horses-die-out-in-north-america/
    It is hard for academics to understand that any other race other than Whites are capable of causing extinctions. In Jared's mind it is inconceivable, nay impossible! for People of color to eat the horse to death and cause its extinction in the Americas.
    Thus hobbled by horse-meat eating the aboriginal Americans imagined the Spaniards to be mangods upon those four legs.

    It is hard for academics to understand that any other race other than Whites are capable of causing extinctions.

    Negro-type people are closer to the animal world so when they do it it’s more natural.

    (T.D. isn’t here today so I thought I’d take up the slack.)

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  105. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @TWS
    Pumas do not avoid people they avoid being seen by people which are two very different things. Pumas will follow humans for miles or observe them for long periods out of curiosity. Occasionally humans will do something that triggers that prey response and you get the child snatched or biker grabbed on a trail.

    The cougar that ate my house cats off the front porch used to watch my house for hours and used my yard as a pathway for months without me noticing.

    The cougar that ate my house cats off the front porch used to watch my house for hours and used my yard as a pathway for months without me noticing.

    Then, pray tell, how did you determine this?

    This noticing thing is more complicated than I thought.

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    • Replies: @TWS
    Funny I didn't notice until he took my cats. When my first cat was eaten I didn't look for tracks I assumed it was the big dog coyote I'd see down the road every once in a while.

    I read the tracks in the driveway of course after the second one but thought the cat was coming from the other side of my house across an old cemetery. I called the fish and game guy and said the cougar was eating my cats. He asked if I was sure it was cougar and not a coyote. I told him to bite me and come take care of the cougar.

    Now he got out to my house and noted that the elk had been eating out of my bird feeders I told him I had missed the eighty or so thousand pound creatures standing on my flowers busting my bird feeders. I showed him pictures on my phone of me trying to chase a spike off my porch and he had a good laugh. So he looks in the tracks in the gravel and says, "yeah maybe a cat."

    Then he starts looking around and spots the trail the coyote has worn into the edge of my yard. I remind him there's no real tracks there because it's grass. He says it goes somewhere doesn't it? So we follow it to the dirt road and big as life there's the cougar tracks. Now I'm feeling stupid because I should have looked after my first cat went missing.

    We walk about ten feet into the tall grass in my neighbor's pasture and find where the cougar had been spending his time watching the house. He'd worn down a nice bed and we both found some hair.

    Now the fish and game guy tracks the other way and finds that the cougar had been going to the houses across the way and watching kids from the brush at the edge of the back yards. He was pooping in the sandboxes too.

    So he shot the critter. The story has a happy ending and from then on I only had to worry about coyotes.
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  106. Ya, it doesn’t seem likely that native americans, or anyone else for that matter, had the ability or desire to mass genocide the thousands of species that went extinct world-wide, not just north america, at that time. Another, and in my mind more reasonable, hypothesis is that there was sort of impact event that occurred a little over 10,000 years ago. Specifically breaking up and hitting the ice sheets over canada. That is why there isn’t any craters left, and also why North America was most drastically affected.

    You can see my longer write up on this and some of the evidence for it here:

    http://atavisionary.com/did-ancient-humans-cause-the-mass-extinctions-of-mega-fauna-outside-of-africa/

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  107. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Twodees Partain
    I really doubt the Bering Land Bridge theory. To accept it is to accept that humankind started in Africa and spread over the planet. The idea is that we are all originally Africans who evolved into distinct races, becoming white, yellow or red according to where our ancestors ended up.

    Archaeologists are champions at jumping to conclusions about the time periods their finds originated, just as anthropologists are about motivations and capabilities of people who lived in prehistoric times.

    I think that all this stuff is just a guessing game. Your guess is no more valid than mine.

    I really doubt the Bering Land Bridge theory.

    LOL. There were a lot of other ‘land bridges’ you’re gonna have to doubt then too. Tectonic plates gonna get ya. Hey are you the guy who says man didn’t walk on the moon?

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  108. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel H
    Cougars with ample food source can grow quite large. Check out this cougar killed in the Canadian Rockies by a hunter. Would not have wanted to be stalked by him. BTW, I disapprove of the hunting of cougars. What is the point? A trophy? Deer? Yes. Moose? Yes. They are consumed as food and are delicious and abundant, but nobody eats cougar. They are magnificent creatures, let them be.


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2017/12/Steve-Ecklund-cougar-The-Edge-hunt-2-889x1013.jpg

    So-called ‘hunters’ like that should be fair game.

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  109. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Jacques Cousteau, PBS’s aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world’s total population at 250 million.
     
    Eugenics was a universally popular creed, often with quasi-religious undertones, of "nice" upper crust people on both sides of the Atlantic until well into the 1940s. Americans will be familiar with Margaret Sanger's "Negro Project" of reducing the black population through targeted birth control and abortion, with the active help of black clergy and other "community leaders."

    The popularity of such ideas among the soi-disant elites remained strong over the following decades, although public discussion was muted due to the association of racial doctrines with the lately discredited National Socialist cult.

    In the 21st century, the idea of implementing a New World Order as a preliminary to culling deplorables and others not deemed sufficiently subservient and useful to the billionaire class is enjoying an renaissance, including highly organized efforts to subvert the "lower classes" through targeted mass migration, drug addiction, and government propaganda.


    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.
     

    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.

    Promises promises! I’ll believe it when I see it.

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  110. Eagle Eye says:
    @anon
    That's what the archaelogical evidence shows. The Negrito people of Tasmania and some parts of the Mainland were here before that.
    Skeletal remains found at Kow Swamp and Lake Mungo, and dated to c.50,000 years, were a different people.

    Mungo Man was apparently 196cm tall – hardly a “negrito.”

    Looks like we are looking at SEVERAL competing groups inhabiting Australia prior to today’s abos, with vastly different heights, probably specializing in different ecological niches.

    No wonder the abos and their leftard enablers were so desperate to get rid of the evidence of earlier inhabitants.

    Same as Kennewick man and many other cases in the U.S. where tribes prefer to claim that they have lived in their current location since time immemorial. In fact, even the famous Navajo only moved to the Southwest about 600 years ago, shortly before Columbus’ landfall.

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    • Replies: @anon
    Where did i suggest Mungo Man was a Negrito?

    At the time of White settlement, the Negritos were the only people in Tasmania, and they were also around present day Nambour and Kuranda [both Qld].
    More likely the Negritos were widespread and unchallenged until the invasion of the 2 separate Aboriginal Races around 500- 700 BC
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  111. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    big predators in Africa and Eurasia know in their genes that Man is dangerous.
     
    I have problem believing this.

    Not hard to believe. Remember the famous experiment in Russia where foxes were bred to become outgoing in a few generations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    If it is so, then Cochran got it wrong again. If in Americas animals had no fear of humans they would be easier to hunt down and wipe out.
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  112. @TWS
    I ate more venison and salmon growing up than beef and tuna. Open season was when the freezer was getting empty.

    TWS, you can get a permit to fish on the Cattaraugus Res, but no white eyes can hunt there.

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  113. @Eagle Eye

    Jacques Cousteau, PBS’s aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world’s total population at 250 million.
     
    Eugenics was a universally popular creed, often with quasi-religious undertones, of "nice" upper crust people on both sides of the Atlantic until well into the 1940s. Americans will be familiar with Margaret Sanger's "Negro Project" of reducing the black population through targeted birth control and abortion, with the active help of black clergy and other "community leaders."

    The popularity of such ideas among the soi-disant elites remained strong over the following decades, although public discussion was muted due to the association of racial doctrines with the lately discredited National Socialist cult.

    In the 21st century, the idea of implementing a New World Order as a preliminary to culling deplorables and others not deemed sufficiently subservient and useful to the billionaire class is enjoying an renaissance, including highly organized efforts to subvert the "lower classes" through targeted mass migration, drug addiction, and government propaganda.


    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.
     

    Eagle, thank you for the excellent reply.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Thanks for info re Coust-eau. Didn't know he was a eugenicist but figures since most "nice" people were.

    Scarily, life writes the best (and worst) stories. Fact is often considerably weirder than the wildest fiction.
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  114. @Lars Porsena
    Stop coddling the canucks. Only the canuck eskimos are inuit, they like to pretend they are the only Aleut-Eskimo group and get offended by making it all about them when you call them eskimos, even if you weren't talking about them.

    Tell them to suck syrup and support your Alaskan Eskimos.

    Lars, too funny but Canadians rarely listen to Yanks.

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  115. TWS says:
    @Daniel H
    Cougars with ample food source can grow quite large. Check out this cougar killed in the Canadian Rockies by a hunter. Would not have wanted to be stalked by him. BTW, I disapprove of the hunting of cougars. What is the point? A trophy? Deer? Yes. Moose? Yes. They are consumed as food and are delicious and abundant, but nobody eats cougar. They are magnificent creatures, let them be.


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2017/12/Steve-Ecklund-cougar-The-Edge-hunt-2-889x1013.jpg

    Plenty of people eat cougar. It used to be popular around here until city people made it illegal.

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  116. Eagle Eye says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Eagle, thank you for the excellent reply.

    Thanks for info re Coust-eau. Didn’t know he was a eugenicist but figures since most “nice” people were.

    Scarily, life writes the best (and worst) stories. Fact is often considerably weirder than the wildest fiction.

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  117. TWS says:
    @Anonymous

    The cougar that ate my house cats off the front porch used to watch my house for hours and used my yard as a pathway for months without me noticing.
     
    Then, pray tell, how did you determine this?

    This noticing thing is more complicated than I thought.

    Funny I didn’t notice until he took my cats. When my first cat was eaten I didn’t look for tracks I assumed it was the big dog coyote I’d see down the road every once in a while.

    I read the tracks in the driveway of course after the second one but thought the cat was coming from the other side of my house across an old cemetery. I called the fish and game guy and said the cougar was eating my cats. He asked if I was sure it was cougar and not a coyote. I told him to bite me and come take care of the cougar.

    Now he got out to my house and noted that the elk had been eating out of my bird feeders I told him I had missed the eighty or so thousand pound creatures standing on my flowers busting my bird feeders. I showed him pictures on my phone of me trying to chase a spike off my porch and he had a good laugh. So he looks in the tracks in the gravel and says, “yeah maybe a cat.”

    Then he starts looking around and spots the trail the coyote has worn into the edge of my yard. I remind him there’s no real tracks there because it’s grass. He says it goes somewhere doesn’t it? So we follow it to the dirt road and big as life there’s the cougar tracks. Now I’m feeling stupid because I should have looked after my first cat went missing.

    We walk about ten feet into the tall grass in my neighbor’s pasture and find where the cougar had been spending his time watching the house. He’d worn down a nice bed and we both found some hair.

    Now the fish and game guy tracks the other way and finds that the cougar had been going to the houses across the way and watching kids from the brush at the edge of the back yards. He was pooping in the sandboxes too.

    So he shot the critter. The story has a happy ending and from then on I only had to worry about coyotes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Fascinating! What general area did this happen in, if you don't mind saying?
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  118. TWS says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "However, the Indians didn’t even make a dent in the buffalo population, which may have actually increased in number and taken over the range of other less-tough, grass-eating herd animals if they had been hunted out."

    Or perhaps the bison were mostly exterminated, but managed to survive in enough numbers to come back when they no longer had to compete for forage with elephants, etc. The Great Plains when the white man arrived looked like an odd monoculture with zillions of bison, instead of the biodiversity seen in, say, the Serengeti grasslands.

    There was a big die off of the apex predator in the Americas after the arrival of Columbus. Some tribes just disappeared. Deer, bison, elk all brought up their numbers for a while. Losing most of your most effective predators will do that.

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  119. TWS says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Werner Herzog tries to throw a spear with an atlatl in his documentary The Cave of Forgotten Dreams. It's goes about as well a Mariah Carey throwing out a ceremonial first pitch at the World Series.

    It’s not easy learning primitive weapons. A club or spear are probably the two most instinctive.

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  120. @anon
    Good on that puma for eating a koala, but he'll never get the taste of eucalyptus out of his mouth
    The Australian Aborigines invaded the Continent about 2500 years ago, and it didn't take them long to exterminate our Megafauna.
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  121. @MikeatMikedotMike
    Excuse me sir, could you tell where the swimming pool is?

    https://youtu.be/8jRTrRxamxQ
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  122. @TWS
    Funny I didn't notice until he took my cats. When my first cat was eaten I didn't look for tracks I assumed it was the big dog coyote I'd see down the road every once in a while.

    I read the tracks in the driveway of course after the second one but thought the cat was coming from the other side of my house across an old cemetery. I called the fish and game guy and said the cougar was eating my cats. He asked if I was sure it was cougar and not a coyote. I told him to bite me and come take care of the cougar.

    Now he got out to my house and noted that the elk had been eating out of my bird feeders I told him I had missed the eighty or so thousand pound creatures standing on my flowers busting my bird feeders. I showed him pictures on my phone of me trying to chase a spike off my porch and he had a good laugh. So he looks in the tracks in the gravel and says, "yeah maybe a cat."

    Then he starts looking around and spots the trail the coyote has worn into the edge of my yard. I remind him there's no real tracks there because it's grass. He says it goes somewhere doesn't it? So we follow it to the dirt road and big as life there's the cougar tracks. Now I'm feeling stupid because I should have looked after my first cat went missing.

    We walk about ten feet into the tall grass in my neighbor's pasture and find where the cougar had been spending his time watching the house. He'd worn down a nice bed and we both found some hair.

    Now the fish and game guy tracks the other way and finds that the cougar had been going to the houses across the way and watching kids from the brush at the edge of the back yards. He was pooping in the sandboxes too.

    So he shot the critter. The story has a happy ending and from then on I only had to worry about coyotes.

    Fascinating! What general area did this happen in, if you don’t mind saying?

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    • Replies: @TWS
    Washington state.
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  123. dr kill says:
    @Daniel H
    Cougars with ample food source can grow quite large. Check out this cougar killed in the Canadian Rockies by a hunter. Would not have wanted to be stalked by him. BTW, I disapprove of the hunting of cougars. What is the point? A trophy? Deer? Yes. Moose? Yes. They are consumed as food and are delicious and abundant, but nobody eats cougar. They are magnificent creatures, let them be.


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2017/12/Steve-Ecklund-cougar-The-Edge-hunt-2-889x1013.jpg

    Must be related to this guy. I know for a fact that hunters don’t lie, it’s those fishermen who lie.

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  124. @Daniel H
    Cougars with ample food source can grow quite large. Check out this cougar killed in the Canadian Rockies by a hunter. Would not have wanted to be stalked by him. BTW, I disapprove of the hunting of cougars. What is the point? A trophy? Deer? Yes. Moose? Yes. They are consumed as food and are delicious and abundant, but nobody eats cougar. They are magnificent creatures, let them be.


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2017/12/Steve-Ecklund-cougar-The-Edge-hunt-2-889x1013.jpg

    If these mighty hunters want to re-enact the Stone Age, more power to them. However, they should be forced to do so with Stone Age weapons:

    https://idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/xtreme_idaho/the-man-who-killed-a–pound-jaguar-with-only/article_c0fc300e-0301-5322-9556-4e2760366cd5.html

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    • Replies: @Logan
    Quite right. A while back there was a guide in GA that led wild boar hunts where the hunters were armed only with spears, as in the Middle Ages. A reasonably fair fight.
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  125. @Whoever

    Am I the only person here who recoils at the usage “to go extinct”?
     
    No, you're not. Traditional American usage had it that, for example, the North American megafauna became extinct, not went extinct. I suppose the comparison would be with, for example, someone becoming rich or becoming poor -- transitioning from one condition to another, not going somewhere.
    I always have assumed that the "to go extinct" usage was a Britishism that infiltrated our language in recent years, much the way other terms and usages have. In times past, the news would report, say, that Judge Crater had disappeared, not that he had gone missing; an airplane would park on the ramp, not the tarmac. And in bygone days, a good old boy would have had Scotch-Irish roots, same as he would have worn Scotch plaid and eaten butterscotch pudding. No one would have said he was "Scots-Irish." I've seen a handbill printed in the mid-18th century seeking information on a runaway servant that described him as "speaking with a Scotch-Irish accent," so the usage is at least that old.
    I listen to a lot of old-time radio, watch a lot of old movies and read a lot of old books. Going by those, the American usages seem to have held their own until sometime in the 1980s. I don't know what could have caused the British language influence then. Mouseterpiece Theater?
    We don't speak the way we used to, or use the same once-common phrases. No one says "easy does it" anymore, or greets someone by saying, "What do you hear, what do you know, what do you say?" Nor do they "ankle" into a bar, or snarl, "One step closer copper, and the frail gets it!"
    The other day, I was listening to a Jack Benny radio show ("Brought to you by J-E-L-L-O!") from May, 1941, and bandleader Phil Harris described something as "groovy." Benny didn't understand and Harris explained, "You know, groovy, like in the groove, dad. Groovy!" So "groovy" seems to have been a new American coinage, then, although I've read Brits writing that "groovy" is British slang from the 1960s.
    In any case, to me, "groovy" is an old term for "fun, happy, nice, good," as the term is used in that hippy-dippy sixties song, "Groovy Kind of Love," and "in the groove" to me is an old term for doing something correctly, skillfully, exactly right -- on fleek. In my mind, it is related to that other old phrase, "on the beam," an aviation radio-navigation term used by Kookie Burns when he sang that he was "beamed in on Dreamsville."
    But when "groovy" was coined, it apparently was merely a shortening of the phrase "in the groove," and didn't mean what it came to mean a generation later.
    Anyways...whatevs, huh?
    https://youtu.be/hpABRTn6kSA

    I say we actively work to bring back the tough-guy Bogart/Cagney slang from the ’30′s, but with one alteration: “Frail” would make a perfect addition to the current lexicon when describing the testosterone-challenged soyboys and small-souled bugmen of the Current Year.

    The gender role-reversal would just be icing on the cake.

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  126. utu says:
    @Anonymous
    Not hard to believe. Remember the famous experiment in Russia where foxes were bred to become outgoing in a few generations.

    If it is so, then Cochran got it wrong again. If in Americas animals had no fear of humans they would be easier to hunt down and wipe out.

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  127. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Eagle Eye
    Mungo Man was apparently 196cm tall - hardly a "negrito."

    Looks like we are looking at SEVERAL competing groups inhabiting Australia prior to today's abos, with vastly different heights, probably specializing in different ecological niches.

    No wonder the abos and their leftard enablers were so desperate to get rid of the evidence of earlier inhabitants.

    Same as Kennewick man and many other cases in the U.S. where tribes prefer to claim that they have lived in their current location since time immemorial. In fact, even the famous Navajo only moved to the Southwest about 600 years ago, shortly before Columbus' landfall.

    Where did i suggest Mungo Man was a Negrito?

    At the time of White settlement, the Negritos were the only people in Tasmania, and they were also around present day Nambour and Kuranda [both Qld].
    More likely the Negritos were widespread and unchallenged until the invasion of the 2 separate Aboriginal Races around 500- 700 BC

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  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Jacques Cousteau, PBS’s aquatic saint, thought that eugenics should be used to reduce/maintain the world’s total population at 250 million.
     
    Eugenics was a universally popular creed, often with quasi-religious undertones, of "nice" upper crust people on both sides of the Atlantic until well into the 1940s. Americans will be familiar with Margaret Sanger's "Negro Project" of reducing the black population through targeted birth control and abortion, with the active help of black clergy and other "community leaders."

    The popularity of such ideas among the soi-disant elites remained strong over the following decades, although public discussion was muted due to the association of racial doctrines with the lately discredited National Socialist cult.

    In the 21st century, the idea of implementing a New World Order as a preliminary to culling deplorables and others not deemed sufficiently subservient and useful to the billionaire class is enjoying an renaissance, including highly organized efforts to subvert the "lower classes" through targeted mass migration, drug addiction, and government propaganda.


    The next Holocaust targets 6-7 billion humans.
     

    Eugenics would still be a popular creed if people had any sense.

    Eugenics just means “good breeding”. It doesn’t mean killing people or necessarily even practicing any involuntary methods. Voluntary methods with incentives would still give tremendous benefit at reasonable costs.

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  129. ChrisZ says:
    @SimpleSong
    I assume h. sapiens hunted out the large herbivorous megafauna and then the predators starved/reproductive rates declined below replacement levels.

    Ironically the same strategy white settlers used against the natives thousands of years later (kill all the buffalo).

    Powerful, intimidating things aren't very resilient. They require a constant, large input of calories to stay viable. Disrupt that, and they're quickly gone. Same is true for human institutions (armies, businesses, etc.)

    What would have been much more impressive is if h. sapiens had wiped out the ground squirrel or the cockroach.

    Figures that the one day I neglect this site, Steve writes a post about the awe-inspiring Smilodon—with a great lead graphic, to boot.

    About the regrettable extinction of Smilodon, SimpleSong expresses my thoughts well. As the name implifies, “Apex” predators hold their positions in an ecosystem as long as the vast populations making up the lower tiers of the figurative pyramid remain stable. If circumstance or another species starts depleting the lower tiers, that undermines the position of the more established predator stock, which sometimes turns out to have been precarious.

    I can add that Smilodon *itself* seems to have effected such a “coup” against a reigning predatory species when its population expanded into the formerly isolated South America. There, several species of giant flightless birds, the aptly named Terror Birds, had long reigned at the top of the ecosystem, but were deposed, and driven to extinction, when Smilodon migrated onto the continent—over yet *another* newly-risen land-bridge.

    Whether the remote ancestors of today’s American Indians were the species that knocked off North America’s elite Pleistocene predators is a good question. It seems to me that some recollection of a beast as dramatic as Smilodon would linger in the mythology of Native tribes. I don’t know enough about it, but I’ve never heard of a “sabertooth spirit” in their otherwise animal-obsessed folklore. Does that suggest that a different, lost population of humans did the dirty work of extermination?

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  130. TWS says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Fascinating! What general area did this happen in, if you don't mind saying?

    Washington state.

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  131. Logan says:
    @unpc downunder
    In many places fire was a major factor in the decline of megafuna. Human hunters set fire to forests to drive away ambush predators like leopards and encourage prey animals that feed on young shoots (as well as harvesting shoots and tubers for their own consumption).

    However, as far as I'm aware fire doesn't seem to have been used that extensively in stone-age North America.

    1491, a book by Michael Mann about the history of the American prior to the obvioius date.

    Fire was very widely used for thousands of years, to the extent that entire ecosystems developed around regular burning. Various oddities of the America ecosystem during the 19th century, such as the enormous buffalo herds and flocks of passenger pigeons, may be related to the great reduction in numbers of the apex predator Indians and a resultant massive reduction in burning.

    Similar factors may apply in parts of S. America.

    Book is highly recommended. Relatively uncorrupted by PCness.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    QUOTE: 1491, a book by Michael Mann ...

    You mean CHARLES Mann. Michael Mann is the well-known Global Warming mountebank and fraud who sued Mark Steyn for libel.
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  132. Logan says:

    1

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  133. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Logan
    1491, a book by Michael Mann about the history of the American prior to the obvioius date.

    Fire was very widely used for thousands of years, to the extent that entire ecosystems developed around regular burning. Various oddities of the America ecosystem during the 19th century, such as the enormous buffalo herds and flocks of passenger pigeons, may be related to the great reduction in numbers of the apex predator Indians and a resultant massive reduction in burning.

    Similar factors may apply in parts of S. America.

    Book is highly recommended. Relatively uncorrupted by PCness.

    QUOTE: 1491, a book by Michael Mann …

    You mean CHARLES Mann. Michael Mann is the well-known Global Warming mountebank and fraud who sued Mark Steyn for libel.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Plus he directed Miami Vice and Heat.
    , @Logan
    You are of course correct. Mea culpa!
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  134. @Anonymous
    QUOTE: 1491, a book by Michael Mann ...

    You mean CHARLES Mann. Michael Mann is the well-known Global Warming mountebank and fraud who sued Mark Steyn for libel.

    Plus he directed Miami Vice and Heat.

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  135. Logan says:
    @Anonymous
    QUOTE: 1491, a book by Michael Mann ...

    You mean CHARLES Mann. Michael Mann is the well-known Global Warming mountebank and fraud who sued Mark Steyn for libel.

    You are of course correct. Mea culpa!

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  136. Logan says:
    @SteveRogers42
    If these mighty hunters want to re-enact the Stone Age, more power to them. However, they should be forced to do so with Stone Age weapons:

    https://idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/xtreme_idaho/the-man-who-killed-a--pound-jaguar-with-only/article_c0fc300e-0301-5322-9556-4e2760366cd5.html

    Quite right. A while back there was a guide in GA that led wild boar hunts where the hunters were armed only with spears, as in the Middle Ages. A reasonably fair fight.

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