The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Hijabs in Chicago: Immigration or de-Assimilation?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

When I lived in Chicago from 1982-2000, there weren’t many women dressed in Muslim hijabs or burqas. Now I live in my native Los Angeles, which, for better or worse, doesn’t attract many women who want to cover up their entire bodies. But I was talking to somebody just back from Chicago who said the number of hijabs in Chicago is unbelievable these days: “Hindu ladies on the street in Chicago in saris are exotic, colorful, and diverse. But Muslim women in hijabs just look alien and hostile, like they are claiming turf.”

Here’s a question that’s relevant to the Trump Phenomenon: Is the increase in hijabs in Chicago during the Presidency of Barack Hussein Obama more due to immigration or due to Muslims already here de-assimilating into Mecca-style apparel?

And which is less worse?

 
Hide 423 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. It is both. More Muslims and more Muslims willing to shove it in your face. Someone showed how Egyptian Muslims devolved from the 50’s to now with regards to Muslim dress. We’re witnessing the same thing here.

    • Agree: Nico, Barnard, NickG
    • Replies: @Alfa158
    I think that was Derb who published photos of the Cairo University graduating class from the 50's onward. The early classes had lots of women and they were bare-headed. As time went on the proportion of women decreased, and all of the ones now left were covered.
    , @Bill B.
    You are the ghost of Sayyid Qutb at a Greeley church dance and I claim my two camel ride vouchers:

    If Sayyid Qutb of Cairo, ideological beacon of Al Qaeda and a martyr of the Muslim Brotherhood, had had his way, Christmas undoubtedly would be banned in the worldwide sharia paradise he sought. He probably would have banned Baby, It's Cold Outside, too, considering his outrage at the immoral behavior he claimed to have seen accompany the actual playing of the song, chronicled in his 1951 article for Egypt's Al-Risala magazine, "The America I Have Seen: In the Scale of Human Values."2

    Described as a quiet and intelligent man,3 Qutb in 1949 was a middle-aged college student living in Greeley, Colorado. It was a town as quiet as its unique visitor, one that "proudly maintained in the late 1940's the moral rigor, temperance and civic-mindedness that were the hallmarks of its founding fathers."4 Alcohol sales within the city limits were prohibited,5 and Qutb estimated that at least 20 churches served Greeley's population of just over 20,000.6 One evening he attended a church service which was followed by a dance. And what was one of the musical selections the minister tossed onto the record player? Baby, It's Cold Outside.

    According to Qutb, people "danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire." 7
     
    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/baby_its_cold_outside_but_its.html#ixzz4HPwCUHIn
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
    , @ogunsiron
    Devolved ? They simply regressed towards their mean. They're going back to (almost) normal.
    , @John Derbyshire
    They're just saying: "We're here. We're sharia. Get used to it."
  2. Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I’m sure that genie can’t be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    • Disagree: 415 reasons
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    There was never a time when "all" "western" women covered even some of their hair, let alone all of it.
    , @The Z Blog
    I fondly recall walking with my mother as she was covered from head to toe in a burlap sack...

    This is complete nonsense. Sure, women have worn hats and various sorts of head dressings in the West. The West has never covered women for the sake of modesty. Even in Eastern Europe where old women still wear head scarfs, it is not out of modesty.
    , @Cabrini Green Mommy
    I think it was John Durant who once commented that the amount of skin women can show in a society is a sign of the men's capacity for personal restraint and impulse control.
    , @L Woods
    Yeah. This habit of using female immodesty and promiscuity as a cultural litmus test is pretty ridiculous coming from the right.
    , @Massimo Heitor
    Western Christian women used to wear more head coverings: famous classic movie celebs like Audrey Hepburn and Brigitte Bardot and Sophia Loren were known for fashionable head coverings. Those were purely fashion and some practicality. They were never remotely attached to a contentious political statement AFAIK.
    , @Marcus
    Really? I have a photo of my great grandmother and she doesn't appear to be wearing any kind of headscarf. Hair isn't sexual anyway, it's about segregation rather than "modesty." Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women.
    , @Lucas McCrudy
    Well, it's true that in early 19th century America, for example, that married women and spinsters were expected to wear bonnets and up until the 1960s most Christian women were expected to cover their hair while in church. Protestant women generally wore hats to church, assimilationist-minded Catholic women would do the same but more traditional minded ones wore head veils. Modern women in the West don't cover their heads; our men are expected to be able to control their sexual impulses at the sight of another woman's hair. Obviously Moose-limbs don't believe this and still feel it's a woman's burden in life to keep the sexual impulses of males in check by dressing "modestly." Hypocritical Western feminists (and libtards everywhere) are largely silent on this matter and support the importation of misogynistic, lecherous Moose-limbs.
    , @Alden
    Josh,
    Western women haven't worn head veils and wimples (neck coverings) since about 1300. Your statement is idiotic. Get on the Internet or to your nearest public library and check out History of Costume.

    Body, leg and arm coverings are modest. But covering the hair???? Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman. Men may think long or short, curly or straight, and various colors of hair are attractive.

    But no one is sexually turned in by hair. Men are turned on by bodies and faces, not hair so hair covering is not sexual modesty.
    BTW the reason people wore hats scarves veils and other head coverings in the old days was prevention of lice.

    Unlike fleas, lice cannot live more than about 5 or 6 hours without sucking on blood from the scalp. Unlike fleas who can find a seam and get to the body quickly lice cannot borrow through cloth, leather, straw or whatever easily

    Lice cannot climb up braids either which is why girls wore their hair in braids for centuries.

    The hijab burka niqab thing is just a sign of militancy and supremacy

    And again your comment that a hair covering is sexual modesty is ridiculous
    , @Nico
    You can't tell me this is anything even remotely like the hideous Saracen do-ups creeping like dry rot across Europe and America nowadays.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously"
     
    Yes, I'm glad someone else sees this. Muslim body coverings are a somewhat more extreme version of the modest dress customs that used to prevail in the West as well. Note that it is not just for women in Islamic countries. Men generally don't wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either. Indeed, Muslim men should cover their faces too if they are devout, with a beard! So we err when we assume that Muslim dress is purely some kind of sexual supremacy/repression.

    I don't know why this fact is so underappreciated when it is so obvious. The strange hostility of the the naysayers to your comment seems connected to this modern blind spot as well. Perhaps it is the modern fetish for literal/material interpretation of everything?
  3. As Derb has noted, ABsimilation is the worst. At least the parent generation might have a modicum of appreciation.

  4. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    There was never a time when “all” “western” women covered even some of their hair, let alone all of it.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    I suspect Josh was talking about the ever-evolving sluttiness of the American woman of a Millennial/Feminist persuasion. Slutty media, slutty advertising, the "look at me" slutties, name the flavor, we're used to it, but put into a certain perspective, a lot has changed the past 50 years.

    The Western womam tends to inflame Muslims. Some are driven to rape, some to rage. One more reason why we need fewer, not more of them. Muslims, that is, not slutty women.
    , @helena
    The thing about hair covering in European society is that it always had a meaning - rain or church, or for the full removal of hair from sight, vows of chastity.

    When the debate first started in England it was remiss of the CoE not to point out that women imitating nuns is offensive to the native culture.
    , @TheJester
    AndrewR,

    Check your history. Although the face was not covered, it was typical for women to wear full head coverings in the West during the Middle Ages. They looked somewhat like nuns when wearing, in our time, the older religious garb. Full face veils were popular with upper class Western women through the 18th Century to hide facial scars from small pox.

    I traveled extensively in the Middle East from the 1980s through the 1990s. When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s ... fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt.

    Times we forget: In the 1950s, women and girls in the United States were not allowed in Catholic churches without a head covering, even if only a small handkerchief; they also were not allowed to wear pants or expose their arms. The issue was modesty. In some communities in the United States in the 1950s, women were arrested for wearing short-shorts in public. They violated local ordinances.

    That said, there is without question a general race to religious fundamentalism in the Middle East under the influence (or threat) or the Saudi-based Wahhabi religious sect. I doubt if the women I met in Bahrain in the early 1990s could get away with wearing Western fashions in public today, regardless of how modest.

    In the West, all it takes is to look and see that there is a general race to the bottom at the other extreme for women and girls. In the 1980s in California, I once took my son to high school ... only to observe a coed going in the front door dressed in a low hanging halter top, high cut gym shorts, and thongs. (Having enough of social anarchy in California schools, I decided to move the family out of state.) In Virginia where we now live, an article in the Washington Post a few years ago covering social issues regarding dancing and dress in local high schools commented that teachers often called the coed race to the bottom in dress as "the whore wars".

    A question: Given the radical social conservatism among Muslims and the radical social liberalism among Westerners today, is tolerance and diversity that includes both extremes even possible? The cultural, social, and religious values of the one condemn the other.

    , @Percy Gryce
    You might look at these images and revise your assertion.
  5. This is a phenomenon that happens in some muslim countries as well, as more muslims adopt wahhabist customs imported from Saudi Arabia.
    The first time I was in Turkey you could recognize the iranian and arab tourists because they were the only ones wearing hijabs and burkinis. The last time I was there there were lots of women wearing this stuff, even in upscale Istanbul neighbourhoods. This is more surprising because traditionally turkish women wore colorful shalwar pants not those black trash bags.
    Even more depressing is to go to Hyde Park and see countless women in black burqas looking, indeed, like they are claiming the turf, a turf where modernity was born.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_salvar

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?
    , @anon

    This is a phenomenon that happens in some muslim countries as well, as more muslims adopt wahhabist customs imported from Saudi Arabia.
     
    Yes - a *huge* part of this has been the influence of Saudi Arabia funding wahabi mosques all over the world.

    The more a desert is involved in a religion the harsher it will be.
    , @Laugh Track

    The first time I was in Turkey you could recognize the iranian and arab tourists because they were the only ones wearing hijabs and burkinis. The last time I was there there were lots of women wearing this stuff, even in upscale Istanbul neighbourhoods. This is more surprising because traditionally turkish women wore colorful shalwar pants not those black trash bags.
     
    I was first in Turkey in 1989 and I assumed that the women I saw in conservative Konya in full black burkas were visiting Iranians. But later visits and the spread of conservative rural Turks to the big City (Istanbul) led me to believe that those Turkish women I first saw in black burqas were actually just local Turkish rural women.

    The only time I saw Turkish women wearing shalwar pants in my several visits to Turkey were in small town rural contexts. In other words, the rural conservative areas featured both full body burqas and shalwar pants, but those mostly spread to cosmopolitan Istanbul in the last decade or two accompanying the rural to urban migration. The majority of the women I saw on the street in modern secular Istanbul districts were dressed in western fashions.

    But a lot has changed in the last half dozen years since I've been there. I suspect that a visit now would make me witness a much more Islamist-conservative social environment.

    But this is just my subjective view of things. Reality may be otherwise...
  6. @Pseudonymic Handle
    This is a phenomenon that happens in some muslim countries as well, as more muslims adopt wahhabist customs imported from Saudi Arabia.
    The first time I was in Turkey you could recognize the iranian and arab tourists because they were the only ones wearing hijabs and burkinis. The last time I was there there were lots of women wearing this stuff, even in upscale Istanbul neighbourhoods. This is more surprising because traditionally turkish women wore colorful shalwar pants not those black trash bags.
    Even more depressing is to go to Hyde Park and see countless women in black burqas looking, indeed, like they are claiming the turf, a turf where modernity was born.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_salvar

    Which Hyde Park are the hibab’s taking over: Speaker’s Corner in London or Milton Friedman’s Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    • Replies: @Ajf
    If he's referring to London, I second that. Living here for 8 years I've noticed a massive increase in hijab wearing, particularly in the past 2 years or so.
    , @Pseudonymic Handle
    I meant the London one.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Not Milton Friedman's.

    Such black-clad "Muslimas" as exist on Chicago's South Side are primarily there due to Farrakhan's Nation of Islam Maryam mosque on South Stony Island and 73rd. In other words, it is primarily American blacks absimilating (to use Derb's expression). There are also immigrant Muslims, but they don't necessarily gravitate to Farrakhan's mosque. Perhaps a few do, but I have posted here before about how America's Nation of Islam similarity to actual Islam from Mecca and Medina is largely coincidental. That there is some advantage in making common front creates occasional cooperation, however. It may also be that Farrakhan, who is no dummy, is gradually adapting his Nation of Islam to be more like the authentic strain from the East, so the final chapter of this has not been written. Farrakhan's Nation of Islam has been a work in progress throughout his life, claims to immutable law of Muhammad notwithstanding. Farrakhan's followers are not theologians, they are in it for the advantages it confers, so they don't mind. (Wikipedia says Farrakhan is now incorporating Dianetics into NoI!)

    Farrakhan is pretty old, so when he goes, I would not be at all surprised if his heir makes NoI much more orthodox in deference to Saudi funding and influence. Already compared to the 1970's one can discern more orthodox terminology in the NoI pronouncements, so the direction is established. The speed may increase.

    , @North Carolina Resident
    Google Hyde Park webcam. There are several.
    , @quamuri
    The big increase in (non-black) Muslims in Chicago is due partly to numbers and partly to mores, I would say. The reason I say so:

    1. A decade ago, the absolute numbers of Muslims, at ANY level of cultural assimilation/non-assimilation, in Chicago was very, very low. So I assume that what we are seeing now is either more Muslim immigrants, or a previous generation of Muslim immigrants growing exponentially by importing wives and inflicting Sharia on their now-adult children, or Muslims from elsewhere in the US congregating in a few cities. (Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I'm less sure). Demography has to be part of the explanation.

    2. A decade ago, there was a very rare begging... ruse? stratagem? technique? where a woman would go out in a full burqa on the Magnificent Mile, with a baby and a sign claiming that she was a good Muslim and needed help. (Sometimes her husband would lurk nearby.) A decade ago this was a fairly rare thing and I think there was only one woman (person?) doing it. Now, you can see multiple people engaging in Muslim-style begging in the Loop/River North area each day. What that says to me is that whatever cultural feedback led Muslims to avoid overt Muslim-style begging a decade ago has collapsed/transformed to the point that many more people think it makes sense. Mentally I'm modeling Muslim-style begging as the kind of behavior you see at the extreme right-tail of the "unassimilated" normal curve, so if an extreme behavior has become seen as acceptable, that implies that many less extreme behaviors are now seen as much more acceptable as well.

    So, my vote is for some of each.

    >Hyde Park

    I have spent time in Chicago's Hyde Park intermittently over many years and I would say there were very few a decade ago, and still very few today. You're more likely to see NOI women (who wear a scarf around their heads, a la Milan) rather than a true hijab.
    , @Bill B.
    I have seen clothes shops in Southeast Asia advertising themselves as "Arab Style" or somesuch, suggesting not just Islam per se but Middle Eastern soft power.
    , @Tacitus2016
    Elvis Costello mentioned London being full of Arabs in 1978.

    Forget Cromwell Paddy. The Declan MacManus phenotype has conquered England. Long live the eyebrow!

    Impressive lyrics and melody shoehorned into a 3 minute pop song.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LrjHz5hrupA
    , @jack ryan
    I'm in Hyde Park Chicago - Milton Friedman's forming stomping ground.

    These Islamists were showing their butts to me, bowing to the East off the 55th street point on the shore of Lake Michigan.

    I politely gave my opinion that this wasn't appropriate behavior as it was the 21st century not the 8th century.

    Some Lib White U of C grad student rebuked me for being an a*** hole and the Islamists said...

    "peace".

    I responded with

    "Yeah I know it's a religion of peace".
    , @jtxuk
    For what it's worth, the niqab-clad Arabs London's Hyde Park is full of nowadays -- especially in summer -- are generally wealthy vacationers or local residents hanging out with their families and not bothering anyone. I don't think it's good that the wealth in the surrounding area has transferred to them, but I'm wary that someone will conflate them with the BLM rioters from a few weeks ago or aggressive Merkel Muslim types. As far as I can tell from visiting Hyde Park several days a week, it's still a very safe and orderly place aside from a few recent incidents and the gatherings of men listening to Islamic ranters at Speakers' Corner on some Sundays.
  7. Here in the burbs of my big city, there has also been a significant increase in burqas and beards. And it seems to me these are American-born blacks. Islam has been taught in prisons to angry black males for decades now; I fear we’re seeing Americans being assimilated into Islam, and that won’t end well.

    • Replies: @Economic Sophisms
    You see this a lot in Philly. Native black American women wearing hijabs.
  8. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Growing up in the UK of the 1970s, female Muslim dress of the face and body covering variety was rarely to be seen – even though heavy Muslim immigration to the UK started in earnest in the 1960s during the Wilson government.
    I can quite clearly remember the only time I saw women in face veils etc was on the television from news reported from Saudi Arabia etc – and I thought it highly exotic and otherworldly. Occasionally you would see it in shopping trips up to the West End of London – where it was a remarkable sight.

    Something in England changed after the Salmon Rushdie crisis of 1989. From then on in it became ubiquitous. Needless to say London has an absolutely huge Muslim population and seeing full veils etc is absolutely guaranteed even on the smallest, shortest trip outside your front door.

    My notion is that the more a Muslim population feels confident – it’s a strength in numbers thing – the more veils you’ll see.

  9. I recently moved back to Philadelphia and it’s amazing how many women I see wearing burquas. They appear to be mostly African-American women but they are everywhere downtown.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Well, that's one way to solve the 'black women are less attractive than white women' problem that black women angst about a lot.

    I wonder if someone's ever proposed the idea that the burka was adopted as an item of clothing in the Middle East because it hides ugliness. In a society based on arranged marriages, it could be used to delude grooms until it's too late to break it off without a lot of trouble.

    Lack of a burka may have been a genetic driver in making white women more attractive than women in many other places of the planet. If men can see what all the women in a community look like, they'll chase after the prettiest ones, and those women will be the most likely to breed, and more likely to have more children than the ugly ones. 10,000 years of this sort of selective pressure will produce overall effects in the entire white breeding pool.
  10. As far as I know, the only native Brit who has moved into Paddington/Marble Arch area (closest to the Speakers Corner of Hyde Park) in the last 20 years is Tony Blair, and he doesn’t really count.

  11. Americans were not aware of the problems involved in bringing Muslims to the USA. Most people had visited, “Its a small world after all,” [which I have to mention is a song made by Mozart, but not the words.] Americans including myself were very naive about what Muslims are all about. And one a person is in that mind set it is very difficult to get free of it. (It took a good deal of attacks on my person for me to start getting the message. And even then it took time for the message to start sinking in.)

  12. I think the rise in hijabs pre dates Obama. I think it rose after 9/11

  13. I live in the Philly area and can hardly count the number of hijabs I see in crowded places. Contrary to Steve’s friend, though, on an individual level I don’t find them especially bothersome or much more alienating than saris (which is not the same thing as saying I don’t worry about them collectively).

    No, what really weirds me out are the niqabs.

    They’re not common, but they are noticeable: probably at least a dozen times a year I see women in the full-black only-eyes-visible getup, including a neighbor in my suburban apartment complex, and *that* is profoundly alienating. Women’s hair, whatever: a few old church ladies still cover that up on Sundays. Nobody who hides their face from you wants to participate in your society as anything other than a consumer or a self-seeking interest group (at best).

    Unlike the hijabi women, the ones I see in niqabs are nearly always black. Moreover, I have heard some of them talk, and they tend to sound like American blacks. Which makes me wonder: are these (previously) culturally assimilated African immigrants gravitating to fundamentalist Islam? Are Black Muslims (in the Farrakhan sense) getting more extreme in their dress codes? Or are a significant number of African Americans becoming Salafists? I’m legitimately curious, although none of the alternatives sound good.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    Second that...niqabs are quite creepy and emanate hostility....
    , @Almost Missouri
    Short answer: yes. See my reply (36) to Steve above (6).
  14. @AndrewR
    There was never a time when "all" "western" women covered even some of their hair, let alone all of it.

    I suspect Josh was talking about the ever-evolving sluttiness of the American woman of a Millennial/Feminist persuasion. Slutty media, slutty advertising, the “look at me” slutties, name the flavor, we’re used to it, but put into a certain perspective, a lot has changed the past 50 years.

    The Western womam tends to inflame Muslims. Some are driven to rape, some to rage. One more reason why we need fewer, not more of them. Muslims, that is, not slutty women.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    The Islamization of the west is all but inevitable. Feminism and the slut singularity are the result of a degenerate civilization, pussified men and unbridled women. The only way to prevent islamization is to put women back in their place. As it cureently stand, women and betas will not even allow us to reduce the rate of the spread of Islam in the US, let alone reverse Islamic gains.
  15. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    If he’s referring to London, I second that. Living here for 8 years I’ve noticed a massive increase in hijab wearing, particularly in the past 2 years or so.

  16. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In the Michigan Ave and downtown shopping areas there’s a lot of hijab wearers who appear to me to be tourists from the wealthier oil exporting countries. They come out in groups and seem to be staying at some of the upscale hotels in the area. Also, there’s a good number of college students from overseas who can also be seen wearing this type clothing. It ranges from head scarves all the way to total head-to-toe robes with just a slit for the eyes which they sometimes cover with sunglasses. Then there’s those in other areas who don’t seem to be passing through but are probably residents and seem to be from the less prosperous Muslim countries. I’ve guessed many of them to be chain migrators where one person gets a foothold and then imports as many family members and spouses as possible with the help of immigration lawyers. I suspect many of them dropped the hijab routine for purposes of immigration, presenting themselves as ‘modern’, secular types in order to gain approval for entry; then it’s back to business later. There’s more and more of them all over with each passing day, more than one would expect by just looking at the official statistics. It could be we’re being lied to regarding the actual numbers.
    How many are devolving to wearing these outfits from a previous secular style is hard to determine since you can’t ask those people anything; they’re very hush-mouthed. There’s obviously no impulse towards assimilation and the few that do try it are ostracized by all the rest and have to break contact with their family and former friends who then hate them with a passion. The hijab wearers are sending everyone a message as loud and clear as a foghorn: ‘We’re not like you and don’t want to be like you’.

  17. @AndrewR
    There was never a time when "all" "western" women covered even some of their hair, let alone all of it.

    The thing about hair covering in European society is that it always had a meaning – rain or church, or for the full removal of hair from sight, vows of chastity.

    When the debate first started in England it was remiss of the CoE not to point out that women imitating nuns is offensive to the native culture.

    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    You can't expect much from CoE.
  18. Head-scarf wearing is definitely an ego thing for some women – European converts, Islamofeminists, anti-westerners.

    In England we also have the problem of submitting to Islamo-led word pronunciation. Izlam became Isslam a while ago and burqa is just now becoming buor’ha (h as in loch).

  19. De-assimilation.

    My girlfriend went from ‘Oh the Koran doesn’t require a hijab’ to wearing one step away from the Burqa.

    I like Hijab’s and Burqa’s though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them (White men will marry anything if not taught correctly…and then find themselves oddly miserable years down the road…har har har)

    It also encourages white women who fall in love with Muslims to switch to the other side…which hopefully angers White Men thus making political action to stop Muslim immigration more permissible.

    As long as interracial marriage acts as a ‘safety valve’ (like mexican immigration acts as a safety valve for the elites) things will only go from bad to worse for people who consciously decide to protect their heritage.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    "I like Hijab’s and Burqa’s though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims...."

    That's what oceans are for.
    , @Nico

    I like Hijab’s and Burqa’s though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them (White men will marry anything if not taught correctly…and then find themselves oddly miserable years down the road…har har har)
     
    I have long been saying something like this. My response to those who complained, "But it's a hamper to assimilation!" was the same as Clyde Wilson's response to similar complaints about illegal aliens: "I would prefer they do not assimilate. They will be easier to deport if they are not assimilated."
    , @Marcus

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them
     
    Yet you're dating one?
  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve seen older white ladies wearing hijabs at my local health food store. They’re the progressive old white woman types who you’d see 15 years ago driving new VW Bugs with Namaste and Coexist bumper stickers. I don’t know if they converted Islam from yoga and Buddhism or they are just donning the hijab out of solidarity.

    Relatedly, white women are becoming the enemy of the white man. No wonder Derb and other white guys are going for the yellow woman. When’s the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she’s not?

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women. There was never a need for a feminist movement in most of the Nordic countries. Yeah, and gag me with a spoon, with those annoying bumper stickers! I actually loathe my generation's boomer feminists...a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.
    , @Nico

    When’s the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she’s not?
     
    When she's trying to attract a Western man, maybe?

    I would not even consider an Asiatic woman for matrimonial purposes unless she were third-generation, Western born and raised Christian. In other words, a Westerner with an Oriental face. Otherwise, absolutely out of the question that any household of mine have have any Asiatic insignias whatsoever beyond occasional spicy recipes and nostalgic dress-ups, much less to spend my holidays in China, Vietnam or Thailand. Some a Western men are okay with giving their lives and their kids up this way. I am not.
    , @Whiskey
    Smart, Working Class White women are the natural ally of White men (and a resource more precious than gold and diamonds). Professional, Upper Class White women are the (current) sworn enemy of White men. This suggests that the proper response would be political judo, White men to encourage the total purging of White women from Professional ranks (best by Muslim women in a hijab who are the significantly younger third wife of a Muslim man).

    What do you call a White Professional woman who was fired in favor of a hijab wearing younger woman with two other co-wives to a Muslim man? A Trump voter, a racist, etc.
    ------------
    My own observations as a SoCal native and Orange County resident for most of it is that BOTH massive new immigrants from Muslim countries AND the anti-White (male) agenda furthered by White Professional upper class women in the broad and toxic spoils and culture alliance (feminism is just anti-White beta male female rage) has produced a massive new influx of burqas and hijabs.

    For example, South Coast Plaza. In the 1980s, it was mostly a White playground, I had been there many times. It was quite crowded, and had stores catering to White Middle/Upper classes: Rizollis, Brentanos, Pickwick Books. In the early-mid 1990s this continued, a bit more Hispanic by the Sears anchor but with (since departed) Ghiradelli Chocolate (I miss that place) and the MOMA store and Rand McNally, etc. Asian tourists started coming in significant numbers (mostly Chinese, not Japanese) during this time: 1990-1995. Muslims were a very rare presence.

    Muslims started to appear in the mid 2000's, as South Coast Plaza rapidly changed to a non-White majority place, catering to ultra rich Chinese (there is an Omega, Rolex, and IWC watch place each across from each other by the carousel on the second level). AND, significantly, Muslims in full hijabs/burqas.

    Fashion Island in Newport Beach, was still White and very rich White too up until around 2006 or so; after that very large numbers of Muslims started coming in, visible by the beards and dresses the men wear and the tents the women wear. Now, you can go on a busy weekend and see lots and lots of Muslims chattering in Arabic, often with kids in tow (boys in jeans/tshirts, girls in tents). These seem to be residents.

    Irvine CA has gone from "boring" but safe, nice White suburbia in the 1980s to massively Chinese in the 1990s (where mid-level oligarchs stash their cash and kids) to very massively Muslim, part Iranian, part Arab Sunni Muslim. The Iranians are mostly anti-Khomeni exiles, not particularly religious, and not particularly obnoxious. The Arab Sunni Muslims are rude, hostile, and all over the place.

    Point being is that Orange County has gone from a Whitopia into basically a combat zone, and it happened very fast and has made me at any rate always looking to maintain situational awareness and be ready for any attack. I don't feel comfortable in my own home county -- like I was still living in New Orleans which I did not enjoy either.

    My own personal observation is that in New Orleans, there were no Nice White Ladies. The ever present threat of ultra violent crime from the dysfunctional (far worse than South Central Los Angeles) Black underclass made them impossible even among Professional White women.

    Portlandia can only exist when you're not "head on a swivel" looking for the next attack.
    , @Tacitus2016
    Feminism is a shit test that Western men failed. No surprise that Western women are going for men who believe in themselves. How do you expect others to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself?
    , @EvolutionistX
    "When’s the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she’s not?"
    All the damn time. Raging SJWs, the lot of them.
  21. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    I fondly recall walking with my mother as she was covered from head to toe in a burlap sack…

    This is complete nonsense. Sure, women have worn hats and various sorts of head dressings in the West. The West has never covered women for the sake of modesty. Even in Eastern Europe where old women still wear head scarfs, it is not out of modesty.

    • Replies: @Josh
    Ridiculous. You know those old nun's habits? That's just how women dressed in the Middle Ages.
  22. Billionaire [Jewish] real estate executive, 56, ‘divorces wife of 15 years an starts dating [big-boobed Pakistani] 22-year-old Harvard student’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3740712/Billionaire-real-estate-executive-56-divorces-wife-15-years-date-22-year-old-Harvard-student.html

    • Replies: @5371
    If the Mail couldn't find any pix of the "busty Pakistani", I doubt it happened.
    , @Anonym
    There is some serious grade inflation going on if her B cup qualifies as [big-boobed]
  23. Steve, you could write a piece on the waning of the western secular ideal. There are probably a number of causes — the liberal facade has been wearing off, revealing the west is only interested in war; the west’s poor economic performance in recent decades; and the “clash of civilizations.”

  24. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    I meant the London one.

  25. Muslim women are not forced to cover up. They makes the free decision. Obviously Muslim culture is seen as superior to western white “culture”. The proof is in the pudding.

    I actually think covering up is a positive development. I wish all women felt so inclined. Covered up women aren’t throwing their sexuality in the face of frustrated men. I think it is better for society as a whole if women are covered up so as not to inflame the rage and anger of non alpha men

    • Replies: @fish
    ......yawn
    , @Alden
    Tiny Duck

    Apparently Muslim men are absolutely inflamed when thinking about what lies underneath the coverings. It also facilitates the arranged marriages as the bride and groom can't see how ugly they are before the wedding.
    In fact, to covering thing is a reason why Muslims tend to be ugly. When looks are a factor in reproduction, nice looking people reproduce. When they are covered in trash bags and beards the ugly reproduce and after a few centuries everyone is moderately to very ugly.

    There are a lot of Muslim burka and head veil women in my neighborhood and they all have ugly faces. The little girls wear regular clothes. Everyone I have seen in the past 20 years is ugly, ugly because the parents grandparents and ancestors were ugly.
    , @melendwyr
    Covering up makes people more obsessed with sex, not less. Ostentatiously covering up some part of the body and claiming it's for modesty causes that body part to become a sexual symbol. Covering up everything makes everything erotic. Eventually men start ejaculating because they see a bare ankle.
    , @KarlUB
    Finally, I now know for sure Tiny Duck is just goofing. It took a while for me to be sure.

    Bravo, sir.
    , @Jay Fink
    I am a non-alpha male and if all women were covered like you want I would lose all joy of life itself. I would find a way to move to a country with non-covered women because the U.S would become hell on earth to me. I am not exaggerating when I say your idea is the most dreadful one I have ever read in my entire life.
  26. This has been an ongoing process, beginning with Wallace Fard and Elijah Poole. We have gone through the Abd-al-Hamid phase, and are now at the Ibtihaj Muhammad stage.

  27. In my experience the worst is Southern Ontario. When I was there the numbers of burquas, niqabs, chadors, and other ridiculous getups was mind-blowing. Then when I visited the prairie part of Canada I was bracing for the same but there was basically none. I guess living in a place with really harsh winters is for the kuffar.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I was in Calgary this year and saw quite a few. I was also in Vancouver and saw many.
  28. I don’t know about Chicago, but in my neck of the woods, it is clearly due to more immigration from Muslim countries.

    When I go to the grocery store in what used to be a mostly white suburb, I often see more women in hijabs than white people, male and female, combined.

    The numbers have skyrocketed in the last five years.

    Even more shocking was the scene in the local mall at Christmas-time, which was dominated by Muslim women. Were they looking for bargains? Showing off their demographic strength during the Christian holiday?

    Hard to tell. But the lack of seasonal decoration throughout the mall was painfully obvious, as if the owners recognized it might be off-putting to their new clientele. I mean, white people buy stuff through Amazon, right?

  29. I’ve only been to Chicago once but I was in one suburb I forget the name it had a Cheesecake Factory. There were quite a few noticeable Muslims just to the walk to the restaurant & at the adjacent mall but nothing more than you’d see at a suburban VA mall.

    My cab driver to the airport was an older Palestinian man who started a family later in life. He was at his wits end with one of his sons who wouldn’t do anything.

    Oh in Trump news it appears Trump is coming off of his Muslim ban but will instead suggest a questionnaire that scrutinizes prospective immigrants on their views of homo rights. Happy days are here again. Can’t say I blame him but the fact that he thinks he has to do this suggests how far this country has fallen.

  30. In Austin, TX, I see more hijabs than cowboy hats. Five years ago I don’t think I’d ever seen a hjiab in Austin, TX. Now, they are quite common.

    Southern whites have been successfully pressured to shrink their symbols of culture and pride. I’ve seen many statues and schools dedicated to the Confederacy removed and renamed. Muslims are encouraged to be louder about their culture and pride.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    Cowboy hats are a Texas symbol not a southern symbol. And last time I was in Texas (a few months ago) I saw plenty of guys in cowboy hats, mostly old Mexican men.
  31. No one ever says this, but I bet that a fair number of Muslim women like the burqas because they take off the pressure to stay thin. It’s a lot harder to tell how much someone weighs when they’re wearing a loose-fitting sheet.

    • Replies: @donut
    It worked for Homer >

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_rF4kcqLkI
    , @Thea
    It is the ultimate feminist statement as it neutralizes female beauty. Naomi Wolf must love it.

    Who can tell what cheekbones, skin smoothness or lips reside behind the veil?
    , @Jay Fink
    Did you ever notice feminists never criticize the burka? I think you are on to something.
  32. It’s definitely more prevalent in ChIraq, but it’s not incredibly common. I believe that many in the Arab diaspora who inhabit my circle of friends still see the hijab as absurd and dated. But those are the same people who associate the hijab with the rabble of the Arab street – the odious working poor. As more of the upper classes adopt the hijab it may come back.

    I do not want to feed the anti-Semite trolls that lurk here, but I have noticed a few more Yarmulkes than in the past.

    • Replies: @Lurker

    I do not want to feed the anti-Semite trolls that lurk here, but I have noticed a few more Yarmulkes than in the past.
     
    Jewish influence is top-down - financial, political, cultural. Their actual numbers are almost irrelevant. Muslims represent a demographic threat - numbers are everything.
  33. The first generation may aspire to assimilate to attain the classic immigrant’s dream.

    Subsequent generations discover there is more profit to be made in the modern version of the immigrant’s dream: victim extortion of the previously dominant productive classes via diversity bonus points.

  34. @AndrewR
    There was never a time when "all" "western" women covered even some of their hair, let alone all of it.

    AndrewR,

    Check your history. Although the face was not covered, it was typical for women to wear full head coverings in the West during the Middle Ages. They looked somewhat like nuns when wearing, in our time, the older religious garb. Full face veils were popular with upper class Western women through the 18th Century to hide facial scars from small pox.

    I traveled extensively in the Middle East from the 1980s through the 1990s. When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s … fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt.

    Times we forget: In the 1950s, women and girls in the United States were not allowed in Catholic churches without a head covering, even if only a small handkerchief; they also were not allowed to wear pants or expose their arms. The issue was modesty. In some communities in the United States in the 1950s, women were arrested for wearing short-shorts in public. They violated local ordinances.

    That said, there is without question a general race to religious fundamentalism in the Middle East under the influence (or threat) or the Saudi-based Wahhabi religious sect. I doubt if the women I met in Bahrain in the early 1990s could get away with wearing Western fashions in public today, regardless of how modest.

    In the West, all it takes is to look and see that there is a general race to the bottom at the other extreme for women and girls. In the 1980s in California, I once took my son to high school … only to observe a coed going in the front door dressed in a low hanging halter top, high cut gym shorts, and thongs. (Having enough of social anarchy in California schools, I decided to move the family out of state.) In Virginia where we now live, an article in the Washington Post a few years ago covering social issues regarding dancing and dress in local high schools commented that teachers often called the coed race to the bottom in dress as “the whore wars”.

    A question: Given the radical social conservatism among Muslims and the radical social liberalism among Westerners today, is tolerance and diversity that includes both extremes even possible? The cultural, social, and religious values of the one condemn the other.

    • Agree: Percy Gryce
    • Replies: @Talha
    Excellent point! Just a century or so ago, even the ultra-liberal Nordics were wearing very modest clothing. Anyone can see by searching for terms like 'traditional nordic dress' and seeing whatever older photographs or sketches come up. And once you get into the Eastern Europeans, then even many traditional folks like Cossacks still cover up the hair.

    Now, as an insider, being a Muslim who moved into Chicago (from Southern California - opposite of Mr. Sailer) for the purposes of preserving religion, I can say Chicago is not very archetypal for the rest of the Muslim community. It has generally very strong religious identity (due mostly to the existence of many traditional institutions and scholars) compared to the rest of North America. The only other cities that compare are; Toronto, parts of NY, Atlanta, Philly, parts of Texas.

    The women in niqab that are seen come from usually two backgrounds; Salafi/Wahhabi and traditional Sunni Orthodox (following the stricter opinion). With the Salafi/Wahhabi, you usually the solid black or dark brown and little diversity and there is probably little likelihood this is going to change because much of it is just an import of the local Saudi or Najdi culture as "Islam". The other portion of women will vary styles (wearing pink, floral patterns, etc.) as is reflective of much of the Muslim culture in the world; niqab can be very locally diverse and ornamented - from the Berbers, rural Iran, etc. Just look up images for 'ornate niqab' or 'niqab styles' and one can see that niqabs were part of local identity much as turban styles were (from Balochistan to Oman). Some are actually made of ornate chain links or even reminiscent of some ancient face plate armor or even mardi gras masks.

    But this is part of a wider discussion/debate within Muslim circles and has little to do with Trump at all - this has been going on since the 90's when there was a genuine religious revival among the common Muslims; what defines modesty and how should it fit into the West? So you have certain uncompromising outlooks:
    http://sunnahstyle.com/

    Versus styles that are designed with local culture in view:
    http://shukronline.com/

    My wife's own teacher who has many students that wear niqab and just hijab has emphasized to them to not wear just black or darks or wear simply abayas or jilbabs in public. Precisely because of how hostile it appears - which seems to be confirmed in many of the comments here.

    And good work getting the kids out of California, though it seems the 'whore wars' are being fought on every front now. Way worse than when I went to high school.

    Peace.
    , @Jefferson
    "When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s … fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt."

    Lucy Ricardo, Carmen Miranda, Marilyn Monroe, and June Cleaver weren't wearing hijabs or burkas in the 1950s. You could always clearly see their hair and faces.

    There was never a time in U.S history where American women were indistinguishable in clothing from Saudi Arabian women and Somali women for example.
    , @ChrisZ
    Interesting question at the end, STS. But perhaps the comment above by leftist Tiny Duck offers a clue to an answer. In defending the dress codes of Muslim women as freely chosen (pro-choice?), he goes a step further by calling this a "positive development" that he wishes "all women" would follow.

    It occurs to me that many leftists, especially the "elite" variety, have become fed-up with the slatternly results of sexual liberation. Sexual libertinism served its purpose for them by eroding traditional social norms, and setting the stage for abortion, divorce, etc. But they no more wish to see their own daughters in immodest public displays than do their "enemies" on the Right.

    What Left-elites CANNOT do is call for a return to the modesty of earlier American eras: this would be seen (rightly) as a vindication of that earlier tradition, Christian morality, and the Right in general. Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however--especially one opposed to the West -- offers a way of endorsing modesty while being "transgressive" at the same time.

    The Left's opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in "Submission." But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.
  35. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    I think it was John Durant who once commented that the amount of skin women can show in a society is a sign of the men’s capacity for personal restraint and impulse control.

    • Agree: Whoever
    • Replies: @Marcus
    This. The pagan Arabs, Persians and many other south Asians probably veiled women long before Islam. It goes back to what James Watson and others have said about melAnin and sex drive. Sadly, we know have ample supporting evidence with how "men" from these areas react to the sight of non-secluded women in Europe and elsewhere.
    , @Talha
    Thus Sub-Saharan African and Amazonian tribes have no peers in this regard!
  36. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    Not Milton Friedman’s.

    Such black-clad “Muslimas” as exist on Chicago’s South Side are primarily there due to Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam Maryam mosque on South Stony Island and 73rd. In other words, it is primarily American blacks absimilating (to use Derb’s expression). There are also immigrant Muslims, but they don’t necessarily gravitate to Farrakhan’s mosque. Perhaps a few do, but I have posted here before about how America’s Nation of Islam similarity to actual Islam from Mecca and Medina is largely coincidental. That there is some advantage in making common front creates occasional cooperation, however. It may also be that Farrakhan, who is no dummy, is gradually adapting his Nation of Islam to be more like the authentic strain from the East, so the final chapter of this has not been written. Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam has been a work in progress throughout his life, claims to immutable law of Muhammad notwithstanding. Farrakhan’s followers are not theologians, they are in it for the advantages it confers, so they don’t mind. (Wikipedia says Farrakhan is now incorporating Dianetics into NoI!)

    Farrakhan is pretty old, so when he goes, I would not be at all surprised if his heir makes NoI much more orthodox in deference to Saudi funding and influence. Already compared to the 1970’s one can discern more orthodox terminology in the NoI pronouncements, so the direction is established. The speed may increase.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    Very true. Here in New York, we have plenty of both NoI and muslim immigrants. They seemingly have nothing to do with each other.
    , @Jefferson
    I read that Louis Farrakhan's father was Portuguese. That would explain why he has a Mulatto phenotype. He doesn't look like he came straight out of The Congo.
    , @Talha
    NOI are a drop in the bucket - they don't number more than a few tens of thousands. Why people pay attention to them is beyond me - nobody among the normative Muslims listens to them - though I'll cop to buying some of their delicious bean pies. The transition to Sunni Islam already occurred shortly after the demise of Elijah Muhammad under his son, the late Warith Deen Muhammad. I used to frequent many African-American mosques in LA during the late 90's - I can assure you they are quite Sunni (they tend toward the Salafi/Wahhabi leaning, but I have seen a resurgence of more Orthodox Sunni as they discover that it was their original West-African flavor) with a local flair of African-American culture.

    Peace.
  37. My Chicago experience is that the MENA populations are mostly isolated to the far north side lakefront neighborhoods, like Uptown and Edgewater. I don’t see hijabs in Near North neighborhoods, or Rahm’s neighborhood of Ravenswood.

  38. The covering their arms & even the head kerchief are fine by me, I guess; it’s the veiled lower face vs. forehead that really irks me (I mean the standard niqab of course, as the full burq w/ pinholes must still be considered outre to most prog-lib tastemakers, being a touch *TOO* hostile to bourgeois comity & civic fellow-feeling, instead of “just right”). Seeing these reminds me of snotty teens pretending to be liquor-store bandits. I don’t place any positive associations with modesty and chastity on it. These chicks are asserting their own importance based on nothing,

  39. On a related note, I think a secret reason why people prefer to use Uber to traditional cabs is that Uber drivers are less likely to look like Osama bin Laden, whereas many Chicago cab drivers are.

  40. “Due to Muslims already here de-assimilating into Mecca-style apparel?”

    Most assimilation is simply adapting to what’s convenient. Indian Immigrants to the US, say, aren’t doing anything all that different from what their parents did when they migrated from small towns and villages to the cities.

    Nobody needs to force a small town girl to adapt to the big city. Unless you want to spend your entire life in a ghetto, the city will eventually win out. Muslims aren’t exempt from this process anymore than, say, Texan cowboy in New York.

  41. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Conservative Tree House predicting Garry Johnson will be in the debates:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/08/15/transparently-predictable-politicalmedia-tripwires-for-august-and-september-16/#more-120230

    Let’s see.

    Meanwhile, according to this poll: http://abcnewsgo.co/2016/08/abc-live-poll-who-are-you-voting-for/

    Hillary is less popular than Johnson.

  42. It’s a version of the Black Shack Phenomena. During Vietnam the Marine higher headquarters identified the ‘Black Shack’ effect within their units. Simply stated, when Blacks begin to approach roughly 10% of a unit, they would self segregate and become very pissy and self absorbed. Under 10%, Blacks identified with the unit and it’s ethos and community. The Hijab is in effect a Black Shack effect. When a neighborhood approaches 10% Crazy Muslim, the women will cover themselves for self protection. Same deal.

    A little diversity goes a long way – too much and you are being colonized.

    • Replies: @carol
    Thank you. Very interesting. I've long suspected that naive open borders liberals do not understand how the dynamic changes once a minority hits critical mass. A solitary, outgoing Mexican or Chinese or Black in your social group can be a lot of fun, and I had them all at one point or other. But it all changes with numbers.

    It's kinda sad too because my mushy liberal parent in LA adored Asians and Hispanics, and tried to strike up friendships but they treated her cautiously and never returned the favor. I had more luck here in Montana than she did in SoCal.

  43. Last time I was in Pasadena I saw a woman in a hijab near Fedco. She looked pretty attractive in it and I was a bit envious though I could not carry it off myself. Anyway that was 10 years ago or more.

    Beware the young non Muslim women who may adopt this fashion for the sake of edginess and attention whoring at the same time. That will muddy the water for sure.

  44. Steve,

    As a long-time Chicago resident (northwest side) I think your friend is correct and my guess is that it is a result of more immigrants (I also find the hijabs or burqas discomfiting and hostile.) I like to use the example of little India on Devon Ave. on the north side as a bellwether of this trend. Little India has grown enormously over the past 20 plus years and is a lively and interesting place to go for Indian food, groceries (occasionally my wife and I will shop at Patel Brothers), and Indian clothes/jewelry. But this is all west of Western Ave. Go east of Western and suddenly you are in Pakistani land — and Muslims are everywhere and Islamic meat shops (advertising halal preparation), bookstores, etc. And you see plenty of women walking around in burqas! It is weird — like the Indians somehow brought the Pakis with them and had to recreate the 1947 partition right here in Chicago!!

    Once again, it is an example of our crazed immigration policies — why can’t somebody have said we only want Hindus (and only a certain amount?) Or even better, we only want Indian Christians! (Somehow the Chicago region has a large number of Indian Christians, who are in communion with the Catholic Church but also kind of strange: http://www.smkcparish.us/)

    Instead, we opened the flood gates and now the Chicago region is full of burqa wearing Muslims. I don’t like it!!!

  45. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    Google Hyde Park webcam. There are several.

  46. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    Yeah. This habit of using female immodesty and promiscuity as a cultural litmus test is pretty ridiculous coming from the right.

    • Agree: European-American
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Yeah. This habit of using female immodesty and promiscuity as a cultural litmus test is pretty ridiculous coming from the right."

    It's not ridiculous coming from the Right. Republican women don't dress anything like Muslim women. If they did none of us would know that Ann Coulter and Laura Ingraham for example are blondes. We wouldn't know that Dana Loesch and Andrea Tantaros are brunettes. You never see the hair color of a Muslim woman because it's always covered in public.
    , @jeremiahjohnbalaya
    Nonsense. The "right" has a concept of "modesty" that covers a wide range of styles well between the extremes of clothing-so-tight-it-delineates-genitalia and we-will-kill-or-rape-you-if-you-show-any-skin-at-all
  47. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    The big increase in (non-black) Muslims in Chicago is due partly to numbers and partly to mores, I would say. The reason I say so:

    1. A decade ago, the absolute numbers of Muslims, at ANY level of cultural assimilation/non-assimilation, in Chicago was very, very low. So I assume that what we are seeing now is either more Muslim immigrants, or a previous generation of Muslim immigrants growing exponentially by importing wives and inflicting Sharia on their now-adult children, or Muslims from elsewhere in the US congregating in a few cities. (Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I’m less sure). Demography has to be part of the explanation.

    2. A decade ago, there was a very rare begging… ruse? stratagem? technique? where a woman would go out in a full burqa on the Magnificent Mile, with a baby and a sign claiming that she was a good Muslim and needed help. (Sometimes her husband would lurk nearby.) A decade ago this was a fairly rare thing and I think there was only one woman (person?) doing it. Now, you can see multiple people engaging in Muslim-style begging in the Loop/River North area each day. What that says to me is that whatever cultural feedback led Muslims to avoid overt Muslim-style begging a decade ago has collapsed/transformed to the point that many more people think it makes sense. Mentally I’m modeling Muslim-style begging as the kind of behavior you see at the extreme right-tail of the “unassimilated” normal curve, so if an extreme behavior has become seen as acceptable, that implies that many less extreme behaviors are now seen as much more acceptable as well.

    So, my vote is for some of each.

    >Hyde Park

    I have spent time in Chicago’s Hyde Park intermittently over many years and I would say there were very few a decade ago, and still very few today. You’re more likely to see NOI women (who wear a scarf around their heads, a la Milan) rather than a true hijab.

    • Replies: @Hidden Cat

    Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I’m less sure
     
    I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many.

    The other thing I have noticed, they are much more willing to wrap up the girls at a younger and younger age. Used to be 11, 12 or so.... now very small girl children are all wrapped up. 5, 6 or so. I mean full covering, more than the hijab and just the middle of the face exposed. Often all in black, even at a young age.

    I read that SFUSD, just two weeks after San Bernardino, had a Monday set aside for "Hug a Muslim Day". In the schools. Uneffingbelievable.
  48. Here in Boston, I was shocked to see how many hijabis there are on the T. I don’t even remember seeing anywhere close to this many even last year. It’s also possible that I’m just more aware of these things because of the news (i.e. the Trump campaign, the migrant crisis etc.)

    • Replies: @Fredrik
    My impression from a recent trip there is that it's the most Muslim major city of the US. That presumably comes from all the students. Many of them rich foreigners.
  49. Hindu ladies on the street in Chicago in saris are exotic, colorful, and diverse

    Sez that guy. I find Hindu ladies in saris to be nauseating.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    Ditto, I usually wish Indian women would actually cover up more. All the sari wearers I've seen in daily life have been for lack of a better word... Woof. Exotic is the last word I would use to describe fat rolls in full display.
    , @ken
    I'll take the Indian ladies over the Muzzies. More friendly, more willing to interact
    , @Percy Gryce, @BB753
    I agree. Older Indian ladies in particular look repulsive in saris. It's also their own way of claiming turf. You'll notice once there are enough of them around.
  50. It’s both.

    The official numbers tell us there have been millions of new muslim arrivals to our country during the Obama years. So there are certainly more of them around.

    I can also think of a lot of reasons why they would be more likely to wear the stuff now:

    1. Most obviously, there is no longer assimilation pressure and at the same time, Saudi Arabia is funding all the mosques, so their preachers are aggressively preaching non-assimilation.

    2. Selection bias. The muslims who wanted to come to America and become more American already came, and now they are reaching further down the chain and getting the ones who want to come to America and keep doing the same shit they’ve always done but with running water and electricity.

    3. Gang colors. If they really feel they are in a hostile, threatening environment, they wear the stuff they can identify their team mates and help eachother out.

    4. Intimidation of the locals. It’s creepy first off and makes people uneasy, and at the second level, many normal Whites figure if you’re wearing the trash bag look, you’re probably hardcore enough to know someone in ISIS, so they better treat you well. Going further, they have to have noticed by now that higher status whites (SWPLs) will become immediately deferential to them while wearing the garb.

    5. Body armor. Again, they have noticed how things work, and they know that if they are victims of crime while being identifiable, obvious muslims, then it becomes hate crime and a Big Deal.

    6. Technology and communication back with the homeland. If they are talking by cell phone/facebook on a constant basis with their older, traditional relatives, they are being pressured to stay true and keep to the old ways. They also might get a facetime video call at any moment which would expose them if not wearing the stuff.

    7. ISIS shifting the muslim version of the overton window further toward traditionalism, making muslims act more muslim-y

    8. (reaching here) Some worldwide strauss/howe type of -thing- going on in the water, air, and/or global, meta-cultural memeplex that is making everybody want to act more to their type. Young right wing whites are getting more right wing than our parents. Young blacks are getting more blackity-black-black. Young liberal whites are going further toward blue hair SJWism. etc

    • Replies: @TheJester
    What an enlightening concept ... that ethnic dress (almost exclusively Muslim) function as "gang colors" to declare their turf and intimate the rest of society. In short, "We're here; we're Muslim; we're taking over ... and there's nothing you can do about it! ... Allahu Akbar!"
    , @AnotherDad
    Nice work 27 year old. I like the bullets. I tend toward overlength wanting to discuss all (or many) aspects of something. You more or less covered all the bases but kept it short and punchy.
    , @Clyde

    The official numbers tell us there have been millions of new muslim arrivals to our country during the Obama years. So there are certainly more of them around.
     
    Last few years I see loads more hijab wearers around so my guessTimate is that whatever you think here multiply by four or five. You--The young are naive. What else is new.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Sorry to get all metaphysical, but some years ago, about 1991, I drove a truck and gave a ride to a guy who told me a kind of prophecy that I have not ever been able to run down, original source-wise. Here it is: Islam surges every 666 years.

    When he told me this, I thought, well that date's approximately right for the founding and original conquests of Islam, but I couldn't think of anything much Islamic happening in 1332, and as far as seven years in the future (1991+7=1998=3x666) I thought Islam has been pretty quiet ever since the Europeans colonized the area a century or so ago, so nothing to worry about there. Crazy prophecy, obviously nothing to it, thought I...

    And yet, I look around today, and ever since 9/11/2001 it's been all Islam all the time. And bizarrely, the more Islam provokes, the more West lies down and takes it. And that dang fool prophecy suddenly looks stunningly prescient.

    Well, it was 66 years from the first 666 to the Battle of Tours, so we should have our 21st century showdown sometime around 2064. Here's hoping men worthy of Charles Martel and Frankish chivalry are born and bred in the next few years. The original Tours was a damn close-run thing...
  51. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Perhaps we can look forward to the Rise of the Hijab-wearing Rocket Girls:

  52. @CAL
    It is both. More Muslims and more Muslims willing to shove it in your face. Someone showed how Egyptian Muslims devolved from the 50's to now with regards to Muslim dress. We're witnessing the same thing here.

    I think that was Derb who published photos of the Cairo University graduating class from the 50’s onward. The early classes had lots of women and they were bare-headed. As time went on the proportion of women decreased, and all of the ones now left were covered.

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    That slideshow has been around for a while.
    , @Mike Street Station
    I think what you are referring to is this old part of PJMedia's site:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20111203060739/http://pjmedia.com/phyllischesler/2010/01/28/the-steady-erosion-of-womens-rights-in-egypt-a-photographic-story/
    , @Bill Jones
    google images of
    "afghan women 1970's"
  53. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    Western Christian women used to wear more head coverings: famous classic movie celebs like Audrey Hepburn and Brigitte Bardot and Sophia Loren were known for fashionable head coverings. Those were purely fashion and some practicality. They were never remotely attached to a contentious political statement AFAIK.

  54. Dirk Dagger [AKA "That\'s Not Who We Are"] says: • Website
    @Alfa158
    I think that was Derb who published photos of the Cairo University graduating class from the 50's onward. The early classes had lots of women and they were bare-headed. As time went on the proportion of women decreased, and all of the ones now left were covered.

    That slideshow has been around for a while.

  55. Steve, back in 2008 a friend of mine bought a house in Norwood Park (far northwest side, nice area, lots of cops/firemen, city workers live there). Almost immediately, we started noticing an unusual number of Muslims walking around the area. They were very visible (woman in hijabs and burqas, men in night shirts with beards). Against the very white neighborhood, this was very conspicuous and it seemed that they were very intent on being seen. We noticed these Muslims were living in an apartment complex a few blocks away.

    This was in the summer/early fall of 2008, before Obama was elected. It should be noted that there is a large Muslim community center near the intersection of Elston Ave. and Montrose on the north side. Constant parking problems associated with said center. Also, Muslims have made significant inroads in suburbs such as Morton Grove, Skokie and Glenview to the north. Oak Lawn, Bridgeview, and Palos Hills to the southwest.

    Yes, Chicago is getting a lot of Muslim immigration and it got going in earnest under G.W. Bush. Worsened under Obama. And yes, for the most part, they are making a point NOT to assimilate to Western norms.

  56. @Almost Missouri
    Not Milton Friedman's.

    Such black-clad "Muslimas" as exist on Chicago's South Side are primarily there due to Farrakhan's Nation of Islam Maryam mosque on South Stony Island and 73rd. In other words, it is primarily American blacks absimilating (to use Derb's expression). There are also immigrant Muslims, but they don't necessarily gravitate to Farrakhan's mosque. Perhaps a few do, but I have posted here before about how America's Nation of Islam similarity to actual Islam from Mecca and Medina is largely coincidental. That there is some advantage in making common front creates occasional cooperation, however. It may also be that Farrakhan, who is no dummy, is gradually adapting his Nation of Islam to be more like the authentic strain from the East, so the final chapter of this has not been written. Farrakhan's Nation of Islam has been a work in progress throughout his life, claims to immutable law of Muhammad notwithstanding. Farrakhan's followers are not theologians, they are in it for the advantages it confers, so they don't mind. (Wikipedia says Farrakhan is now incorporating Dianetics into NoI!)

    Farrakhan is pretty old, so when he goes, I would not be at all surprised if his heir makes NoI much more orthodox in deference to Saudi funding and influence. Already compared to the 1970's one can discern more orthodox terminology in the NoI pronouncements, so the direction is established. The speed may increase.

    Very true. Here in New York, we have plenty of both NoI and muslim immigrants. They seemingly have nothing to do with each other.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    It will be interesting once there are Shiite and Sunni neighborhoods, and how American government will respond to the inevitable violence between these two adversarial groups - they will bring all their squabbles from Iraq & Syria to Queens!

    It will be a real headache for MSM and Progressives. Although, Shiites like the Iranians, are less likely to wear ugly-assed burquas/head coverings if in the USA. Sunnis definitely have uglier "outer wear."
  57. In the Peoria Area downstate any trip to a Wal Mart or a Target you will see at least a few hijabs. Peoria has a large Arab/Lebanese community dating way back. I believe that most of those immigrants were Christian. Former Transportation secretary Ray LaHood was one example. Today there seems to be a lot of Muslims in the area.

  58. @CAL
    It is both. More Muslims and more Muslims willing to shove it in your face. Someone showed how Egyptian Muslims devolved from the 50's to now with regards to Muslim dress. We're witnessing the same thing here.

    You are the ghost of Sayyid Qutb at a Greeley church dance and I claim my two camel ride vouchers:

    If Sayyid Qutb of Cairo, ideological beacon of Al Qaeda and a martyr of the Muslim Brotherhood, had had his way, Christmas undoubtedly would be banned in the worldwide sharia paradise he sought. He probably would have banned Baby, It’s Cold Outside, too, considering his outrage at the immoral behavior he claimed to have seen accompany the actual playing of the song, chronicled in his 1951 article for Egypt’s Al-Risala magazine, “The America I Have Seen: In the Scale of Human Values.”2

    Described as a quiet and intelligent man,3 Qutb in 1949 was a middle-aged college student living in Greeley, Colorado. It was a town as quiet as its unique visitor, one that “proudly maintained in the late 1940’s the moral rigor, temperance and civic-mindedness that were the hallmarks of its founding fathers.”4 Alcohol sales within the city limits were prohibited,5 and Qutb estimated that at least 20 churches served Greeley’s population of just over 20,000.6 One evening he attended a church service which was followed by a dance. And what was one of the musical selections the minister tossed onto the record player? Baby, It’s Cold Outside.

    According to Qutb, people “danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire.” 7

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/baby_its_cold_outside_but_its.html#ixzz4HPwCUHIn
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    According to Qutb, people “danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire.” 7
     
    Why are Baptists against premarital sex?
    Because it might lead to dancing.
    , @The Man From K Street
    What really creeped out Qutb about 1949 White America was not sex--it was attitudes about death. He saw ER residents making macabre jokes about trauma patients. He saw widows talking calmly discussing proceed payouts with life insurance agents 48 hours after their husband's funeral. Etc. He thought it was ghastly.

    Being a closeted homosexual himself, public displays of sexuality were very secondary on Qutb's list of grievances.
    , @Peter Meyer
    Qutb's essay, at least the translation I read, had very little to do with modesty/promiscuity per se. He found it cheap that a church (built for the contemplation of the divine) would be used as a glorified teenaged dating service. He was also shocked that Americans who visited museums would only glance briefly at various great works of art versus actually taking time to contemplate what they were seeing. He said that they treated it as just a box to be checked and that Americans had no capacity for deep or serious emotions, despite their obvious genius for industry and commerce. A totally correct observation which that rambling childish "article" you linked proves quite nicely.
  59. @Alfa158
    I think that was Derb who published photos of the Cairo University graduating class from the 50's onward. The early classes had lots of women and they were bare-headed. As time went on the proportion of women decreased, and all of the ones now left were covered.
  60. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill B.
    You are the ghost of Sayyid Qutb at a Greeley church dance and I claim my two camel ride vouchers:

    If Sayyid Qutb of Cairo, ideological beacon of Al Qaeda and a martyr of the Muslim Brotherhood, had had his way, Christmas undoubtedly would be banned in the worldwide sharia paradise he sought. He probably would have banned Baby, It's Cold Outside, too, considering his outrage at the immoral behavior he claimed to have seen accompany the actual playing of the song, chronicled in his 1951 article for Egypt's Al-Risala magazine, "The America I Have Seen: In the Scale of Human Values."2

    Described as a quiet and intelligent man,3 Qutb in 1949 was a middle-aged college student living in Greeley, Colorado. It was a town as quiet as its unique visitor, one that "proudly maintained in the late 1940's the moral rigor, temperance and civic-mindedness that were the hallmarks of its founding fathers."4 Alcohol sales within the city limits were prohibited,5 and Qutb estimated that at least 20 churches served Greeley's population of just over 20,000.6 One evening he attended a church service which was followed by a dance. And what was one of the musical selections the minister tossed onto the record player? Baby, It's Cold Outside.

    According to Qutb, people "danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire." 7
     
    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/baby_its_cold_outside_but_its.html#ixzz4HPwCUHIn
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    According to Qutb, people “danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire.” 7

    Why are Baptists against premarital sex?
    Because it might lead to dancing.

    • Replies: @Cat Lady
    Correction: Why don't Baptists have sex standing up? Because it might lead to dancing. "Presbyterian" may be substituted for "Baptist."
  61. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    I have seen clothes shops in Southeast Asia advertising themselves as “Arab Style” or somesuch, suggesting not just Islam per se but Middle Eastern soft power.

  62. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    Really? I have a photo of my great grandmother and she doesn’t appear to be wearing any kind of headscarf. Hair isn’t sexual anyway, it’s about segregation rather than “modesty.” Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    "Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women."

    Exactly. Wearing Hijabs/Burqas/Niqabs is diametrically opposed to the idea of gender equality; women's advancement; women's rights. Ugh, headscarves make me feel sick every time I see them...and it makes me feel that the person wearing it is just a pathetic loser submitting to parochial patriarchy.

    Note to chauvinists and weak women: God doesn't care what you wear.

    , @TheJester
    Having twenty-years of experience in the Middle East, I've reached one conclusion: There is a comical sideshow associated with polygamous, Muslim societies.

    If a Muslim male can have more than one wife, he never stops "dating". Since marriages in Muslim societies are almost always arranged marriages (legal contracts) between families for business purposes or schemes to increase family wealth, Muslims in their native societies find it hard to date. Therefore, the loose, free-flowing relationships between the sexes in Western society are just too much to bear. "So many women ... and so little time!"

    There is another quirk in Muslim culture. In Muslim culture, females (like males in Western society) are assumed to be the sexual aggressors, which is why women need to be held under wraps. They cannot sexually control themselves. Women making eye contact with men ... or exposing their curves, legs, or elbows ... are sexually communicating their availability. On the other hand, in Muslim society men (like women in Western society), cannot control their emotions. Therefore, if a woman (the aggressor) communicates sexual availability and a man (who cannot control his emotions) responds, it is the woman's fault, which is why women who are raped in Muslim countries are typically held responsible for the rape. If it was not for the woman's "come ons", the rape would never have happened.

    Notice that this turns the relationships between men and women in Western and Muslim societies on their heads. The two cultures are like two ships passing in the night. They can never comes to terms or understand each other because their perceptions regarding the nature of human beings and the functioning society stands at the antipodes of human perception and experience.

    What is Black to a Westerner is White to a Muslim; and what is Black to a Muslim is White to a Westerner. Is this what makes DIVERSITY so much fun?
    , @European-American
    > Hair isn’t sexual anyway

    I used to think that too (because I grew up astonishingly naive. As a child, it took me a long time to figure out why legs could be sexy. Why on earth would something as mundane and utilitarian as a leg be considered a turn-on?... I think I figured it out now...). Reading Camille Paglia de-stupidified me on the topic of hair:

    "long hair has been and will remain the language of feminine eros"
    https://books.google.es/books?id=TTdfPGhvyBEC&pg=PA329&dq=hair+sexual+personae+paglia+hair

    But what does that crazy lady know, right? So to convince nerds, here's a scientific study:

    "hair length and quality can act as a cue to a woman's youth and health and, as such, signify reproductive potential."
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103100914501

    But really, for most people, the sexual power of hair is utterly obvious.

    I guess different causes can make someone deny this:
    - modern "we are people, not sexual objects" ideology
    - religious blindness "sex is nowhere except in a sinner's mind"
    - childishness "what's this sex thing people talk about?"

    [Spock voice] "Fascinating..."

  63. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    Well, it’s true that in early 19th century America, for example, that married women and spinsters were expected to wear bonnets and up until the 1960s most Christian women were expected to cover their hair while in church. Protestant women generally wore hats to church, assimilationist-minded Catholic women would do the same but more traditional minded ones wore head veils. Modern women in the West don’t cover their heads; our men are expected to be able to control their sexual impulses at the sight of another woman’s hair. Obviously Moose-limbs don’t believe this and still feel it’s a woman’s burden in life to keep the sexual impulses of males in check by dressing “modestly.” Hypocritical Western feminists (and libtards everywhere) are largely silent on this matter and support the importation of misogynistic, lecherous Moose-limbs.

  64. Coming to Chicago from the West Coast originally, I too have noticed the large number of hijabs. I live in a touristy area and I would say possibly as many 1 in 20 women wear hijab (although they are probably visiting from some other neighborhood).

    That said, I would argue that the “mujahabat” (women that wear hijab) fall in two categories: Older women from the old country who just wear it out of tradition and for whom it would be unthinkable and very uncomfortable to dress differently, and younger, American born women who do it as a conscious identity thing. The first category I don’t mind, the second makes me a little uncomfortable. I also see families where one sibling dresses western and the other wears hijab.

    My wife who is Iranian also noticed this and expressed bafflement at how the younger american hijab wearers dress like that. Iranians outside Iran (where hijab is mandatory) practically never wear hijab.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you're in jeans. I've seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can't do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we're close to our destination. Otherwise, they're just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

  65. I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab’s. I don’t recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, “Ralph Kramden” mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren’t very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, “excuse me, can I get through?” I didn’t know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had “out-smarted” me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn’t bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn’t hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee’s were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I’ve never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that’s the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock’s, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    • Replies: @eah
    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Perhaps a rhetorical question -- but I will answer anyway.

    A suggestion: see my comment here -- watch the video, check the reference list, denk mal darüber...

    Somewhat related I think: A New Study Finds That Men Are Weaker Today Than They Were 30 Years Ago

    The country is being actively emasculated.
    , @anonymous
    You need to get your hormone levels checked. Your response to being lied to in your face and then doormatted is unhealthy.

    She lied when she said "through"... if it was me I would've unloaded on her and retaken my rightful place in line. Just reading this stuff makes me rage.

    All you have to do is fight back. Bullies like this back down like wilted flowers.

    I recently saw a short obese Latin woman in a quickie mart line try to bully an actual cowboy (ranch hand) a big guy and he went verbally ballistic on her and she was terrified and humiliated. It was brutal and appropriate.


    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, “excuse me, can I get through?” I didn’t know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me.
    , @Avenge Harambe
    Yeah, same here in Chicago. You will see a lot of middle easterners at Walmart, it's overwhelming at times. A very third world experience. Add that to the other run of the mill riff-raff, its a very depressing place to shop and best avoided.
    , @Lucas McCrudy
    Your trip to Target is a glance at the Third World dystopia our sick elites have in store for us. And judging by Hillary's current poll numbers, there're still plenty of whites with their heads buried deep in the sand.
    You said there were lots of folks from the Mid East, some apparently Armenian; were they the ones with the head rags? I ask b/c Armenia is predominately Christian (the first country to officially adopt the religion), not Moose-limb. A little tip: If you want to avoid bumping into lots of colorful dregs on your shopping trips the best time to go in the morning or early afternoon. In the evening and at night it can become a zoo (no pun intended) in many retail establishments.
    , @fish
    They took Brechts suggestion.....they're electing a new people!

    I'm curious as to why Muslims though? Because they generally will take a shit ton of abuse from the government is all I can come up with!
    , @Kylie
    Exactly. For me, the issue of immigration is about the culture, not the economy.
    , @Anonymous
    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn’t hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    This describes what I experienced at a couple of rest stops while driving along the N.J. Turnpike a few summers ago. Very few white people and many unfriendly-looking foreign-type people. I have since decided to avoid the N.J. Turnpike.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock’s, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    I remember this, too, and I don't understand why the elites in the West are willing to give this up. They can hide themselves away in gated communities or wherever sonewhat, but even they have to wander out to more public areas, which have become much less pleasant. Even driving on the roads can be a less nice (and sometimes less safe) experience now. And there is also the issue of what appears to be a huge increase in litter along American roads. Has anyone else noticed more litter these days?
    , @Ivy
    Your Target checkout line example is repeated in various ways around the country. The situations are typically cringe-inducing to natives, and usually involve some gross violation of common courtesy or acceptable behavior.

    Here is an example. My wife was in her car, waiting for another car to pull out of a parking spot. The driver behind her bumped into her stopped car, then got out to level a false accusation of backing up into her. Even though the parking lot attendant and others witnessed the whole scene, and would testify as to that driver's fault, that driver decided to file an accident report. We got that tossed immediately and encouraged the DMV to go after her. The attendant said that he had to referee such issues routinely.

    The underlying message for those drivers, or shoppers, or tenants, or other miscreants is to push for whatever you think you can get away with, and not what is right. That is yet another activity that undermines the benefits that our country accrued through the rule of law.
    , @International Jew
    Target, pfff. You should see Walmart. The employees speak so many different languages (which usually don't include English in anything more than broken scraps), I wonder how they can even work together effectively.
    , @Beefychops
    Screen Test-

    As fellow life-long resident of L.A. you described exactly my daily experiences. I recall with fondness going shopping at the Del Amo Mall in Torrance and just wandering around with my mom somewhere within earshot. Friendly faces, similar faces, it felt right and like home. None of that today. When I get off the freeway for work in the morning I feel like I've been transported to a foreign land. Signs in Spanish, graffiti everywhere, street peddlers hawking their wares in the middle of lanes.

    I think what hit home most was your comment stating, "...little families from all over the world, in their own little universes floating around." I have had that exact same thought over and over. There is no sense of community that I can discern. It just seems like a mad push to acquire stuff and exist.

    One final comment related to the dog in the basket you mentioned. I live a few blocks from the beach and was chatting with a lifeguard friend a week or two ago down on the sand. We saw a rotund middle-eastern looking lady walking toward the guard tower and as she got closer we noticed that she had a small dog with her. My lifeguard buddy approached her to remind her that dogs aren't allowed on the beach and the local cops would cite her. It turned into a full blown brouhaha with the lady going into a rage. A few moments later my buddy came back over and sighed. He said that the lady was pissed that he didn't know her dog was a certified "help" dog. The lady wasn't blind and this wasn't a full sized dog. It was some little yapper dog that fits in hoity toity people's purses. But it was a service dog and she could do whatever she wanted. Total breakdown of civilization...
    , @Some Economist
    I think it's important to chronicle these seemingly inconsequential, everyday experiences. Others surely have these same impressions of alienation in their own country, but they don't allow themselves to reflect on it--let alone connect it to policy in any conscious way. It's important that these experiences be articulated.

    We need something like Face to Face with Race, but for immigration.
    https://store.amren.com/product/books/face-to-face-with-race/

    On the subject of what's behind the noticeable increase in Muslim dress: Someone I encounter through work started wearing a cap just after the Paris Bataclan massacre last fall. He's under 30 and quite friendly to speak with; I presume he was born in the US. I believe he is aware of his amiability and that others view him positively, so I think his message here is "Hey, I'm a nice guy. Bet you didn't know I'm a Muslim, too! You probably feel pretty bad about the Islamaphobia in your head now..." This is the best case scenario for what looks to be "absimilation". Still, I ultimately can't help but interpret this all as middle finger in my face.

    Though I'm begrudgingly not religious, I'm very tempted to wear a cross pendant in some sort of cultural solidarity, or at the least to ward off snarky cultural-Marxist comments in my presence. I can't be the only one considering this. Just as I'm apparently not the only one who had a chilling experience on a rare but recent trip to a Target.
    , @Ken
    We stopped having kids.
  66. @27 year old
    It's both.

    The official numbers tell us there have been millions of new muslim arrivals to our country during the Obama years. So there are certainly more of them around.

    I can also think of a lot of reasons why they would be more likely to wear the stuff now:

    1. Most obviously, there is no longer assimilation pressure and at the same time, Saudi Arabia is funding all the mosques, so their preachers are aggressively preaching non-assimilation.

    2. Selection bias. The muslims who wanted to come to America and become more American already came, and now they are reaching further down the chain and getting the ones who want to come to America and keep doing the same shit they've always done but with running water and electricity.

    3. Gang colors. If they really feel they are in a hostile, threatening environment, they wear the stuff they can identify their team mates and help eachother out.

    4. Intimidation of the locals. It's creepy first off and makes people uneasy, and at the second level, many normal Whites figure if you're wearing the trash bag look, you're probably hardcore enough to know someone in ISIS, so they better treat you well. Going further, they have to have noticed by now that higher status whites (SWPLs) will become immediately deferential to them while wearing the garb.

    5. Body armor. Again, they have noticed how things work, and they know that if they are victims of crime while being identifiable, obvious muslims, then it becomes hate crime and a Big Deal.

    6. Technology and communication back with the homeland. If they are talking by cell phone/facebook on a constant basis with their older, traditional relatives, they are being pressured to stay true and keep to the old ways. They also might get a facetime video call at any moment which would expose them if not wearing the stuff.

    7. ISIS shifting the muslim version of the overton window further toward traditionalism, making muslims act more muslim-y

    8. (reaching here) Some worldwide strauss/howe type of -thing- going on in the water, air, and/or global, meta-cultural memeplex that is making everybody want to act more to their type. Young right wing whites are getting more right wing than our parents. Young blacks are getting more blackity-black-black. Young liberal whites are going further toward blue hair SJWism. etc

    What an enlightening concept … that ethnic dress (almost exclusively Muslim) function as “gang colors” to declare their turf and intimate the rest of society. In short, “We’re here; we’re Muslim; we’re taking over … and there’s nothing you can do about it! … Allahu Akbar!”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I used to notice hijabis with foreign voices that can barely rise above a whisper, and closed-off, downtrodden body language. Now I notice them with local accents: loud, obnoxious and in-your-face. That makes me think the signal is "That's right, I'm Muslim, I'm proud, you got a problem with that?" because there isn't a trace of the wilting feminine modesty the hijab is supposed to stamp on its wearer.
  67. They don’t call it Chi-raq for nothing!

  68. Burkas are the new form of exhibitionism. When you are wearing a burka, everyone is looking at you.

  69. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Perhaps a rhetorical question — but I will answer anyway.

    A suggestion: see my comment here — watch the video, check the reference list, denk mal darüber…

    Somewhat related I think: A New Study Finds That Men Are Weaker Today Than They Were 30 Years Ago

    The country is being actively emasculated.

  70. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    You need to get your hormone levels checked. Your response to being lied to in your face and then doormatted is unhealthy.

    She lied when she said “through”… if it was me I would’ve unloaded on her and retaken my rightful place in line. Just reading this stuff makes me rage.

    All you have to do is fight back. Bullies like this back down like wilted flowers.

    I recently saw a short obese Latin woman in a quickie mart line try to bully an actual cowboy (ranch hand) a big guy and he went verbally ballistic on her and she was terrified and humiliated. It was brutal and appropriate.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, “excuse me, can I get through?” I didn’t know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me.

    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    "She lied when she said “through”"
    in That London, over here, it wouldn't have been a lie. She was simply obstructed by the shopper further up the line from you in her righteous attempt to do a runner with a trolley-full of jizya, right out of the store. In the full-on Dalek suit, no security jobsworth would have dared to challenge her (if it was indeed a "her").
  71. Meanwhile, at a lazy cafe in the South of France:

  72. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Yeah, same here in Chicago. You will see a lot of middle easterners at Walmart, it’s overwhelming at times. A very third world experience. Add that to the other run of the mill riff-raff, its a very depressing place to shop and best avoided.

    • Replies: @eah
    A very third world experience.

    Going to a DMV office in CA has been 'a very third world experience' for about forty years -- another way to have your own personal 'third world experience' is to take a trip outside the US, and upon returning, when going thru passport control take a look at who's alongside you in the line for 'US Citizens + Green Card + Immigrant Visa Holders'.
  73. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Your trip to Target is a glance at the Third World dystopia our sick elites have in store for us. And judging by Hillary’s current poll numbers, there’re still plenty of whites with their heads buried deep in the sand.
    You said there were lots of folks from the Mid East, some apparently Armenian; were they the ones with the head rags? I ask b/c Armenia is predominately Christian (the first country to officially adopt the religion), not Moose-limb. A little tip: If you want to avoid bumping into lots of colorful dregs on your shopping trips the best time to go in the morning or early afternoon. In the evening and at night it can become a zoo (no pun intended) in many retail establishments.

  74. @Anonymous
    I've seen older white ladies wearing hijabs at my local health food store. They're the progressive old white woman types who you'd see 15 years ago driving new VW Bugs with Namaste and Coexist bumper stickers. I don't know if they converted Islam from yoga and Buddhism or they are just donning the hijab out of solidarity.

    Relatedly, white women are becoming the enemy of the white man. No wonder Derb and other white guys are going for the yellow woman. When's the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she's not?

    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women. There was never a need for a feminist movement in most of the Nordic countries. Yeah, and gag me with a spoon, with those annoying bumper stickers! I actually loathe my generation’s boomer feminists…a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Probably the major reason they wear the black trash bags is to create anti Muslim hate crime statistics
    CAIR and liberals are always posting anti Muslim hate crime statistics. Dig into them and you will find that 100 percent of the hate crimes are Muslim women reporting that someone looked
    at them in their Halloween costume.

    Like the black thugs looking for trouble, all this hijab display contributes to CAIR's power through victimization tactics.

    Muslim takeover of Skokie and Glenview I'll? Wow!!! Those suburbs used to be solidly Jewish
    , @Forbes

    I actually loathe my generation’s boomer feminists…a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.
     
    LOL.

    A few married boomer feminists I know are actually quite frightened at the Genie they let out of the lamp. Kinda amusing, though far too late. Like anything not strictly conservative, it eventually turns into left-liberal-progressivism. And it doesn't stop.
    , @Anonymous

    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women.
     
    I would steer them toward Korean women out of that bunch. They tend to be good Christians. Why not Eastern European women? They are still sensible and feminine.
  75. Shopping for records in Kabul in the 1950s:

    In NYC it is all over the place now, hijabs and burkas. A white woman lawyer at my office even worse a modified burka (it didn’t cover her eyes and nose and mouth but all else covered. Maybe she was Albanian or some such but I never asked.

    I think the males of the culture are now more insistent on it. And some women are making a fashion statement or cultural statement. To a degree it is deliberately provocative (ironically enough, given what that phrase usually means in dress style).

    Nowadays the goal is to provoke some type of reaction and then say, aha, discrimination. Kinda like transgender pronoun issues.

    Or like the guy who shot the reporter woman and camera man. They had used phrases like “The reporter is out in the filed.” And he’d say “You mean like ‘cotton fields’ you raysuss?”

  76. @Marcus
    Really? I have a photo of my great grandmother and she doesn't appear to be wearing any kind of headscarf. Hair isn't sexual anyway, it's about segregation rather than "modesty." Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women.

    “Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women.”

    Exactly. Wearing Hijabs/Burqas/Niqabs is diametrically opposed to the idea of gender equality; women’s advancement; women’s rights. Ugh, headscarves make me feel sick every time I see them…and it makes me feel that the person wearing it is just a pathetic loser submitting to parochial patriarchy.

    Note to chauvinists and weak women: God doesn’t care what you wear.

    • Agree: Marcus
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    Do you feel the same way about Mother Teresa?
    , @Marcus
    I'd love for all people to abandon Abrahamic religions, but as a White American I don't really care much what they wear in their own countries, and I recognize the HBD element (high status of women is constant in Indo-Aryan cultures). If anything it might be good for them to wear niqabs here to reinforce their alienness.
    , @Whoever

    God doesn’t care what you wear.
     
    If a girl can't party dress so God ogles her and shouts "Hubba! Hubba! Now that's why I created the universe!" where's the fun?
    , @jay
    Those who are anti-patriarchy are just as much a problem as those invaders. The west was patriarchal. Now its being invaded by a foreign patriarchy.
  77. @JLoHo
    De-assimilation.

    My girlfriend went from 'Oh the Koran doesn't require a hijab' to wearing one step away from the Burqa.

    I like Hijab's and Burqa's though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them (White men will marry anything if not taught correctly...and then find themselves oddly miserable years down the road...har har har)

    It also encourages white women who fall in love with Muslims to switch to the other side...which hopefully angers White Men thus making political action to stop Muslim immigration more permissible.

    As long as interracial marriage acts as a 'safety valve' (like mexican immigration acts as a safety valve for the elites) things will only go from bad to worse for people who consciously decide to protect their heritage.

    “I like Hijab’s and Burqa’s though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims….”

    That’s what oceans are for.

    • LOL: Nico
    • Replies: @Anonym
    That’s what oceans are for.

    Or sod.
  78. @Jim Christian
    I suspect Josh was talking about the ever-evolving sluttiness of the American woman of a Millennial/Feminist persuasion. Slutty media, slutty advertising, the "look at me" slutties, name the flavor, we're used to it, but put into a certain perspective, a lot has changed the past 50 years.

    The Western womam tends to inflame Muslims. Some are driven to rape, some to rage. One more reason why we need fewer, not more of them. Muslims, that is, not slutty women.

    The Islamization of the west is all but inevitable. Feminism and the slut singularity are the result of a degenerate civilization, pussified men and unbridled women. The only way to prevent islamization is to put women back in their place. As it cureently stand, women and betas will not even allow us to reduce the rate of the spread of Islam in the US, let alone reverse Islamic gains.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "women and betas will not even allow us"
     
    Dude, no offense, but why are you waiting for their permission?
  79. @JLoHo
    De-assimilation.

    My girlfriend went from 'Oh the Koran doesn't require a hijab' to wearing one step away from the Burqa.

    I like Hijab's and Burqa's though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them (White men will marry anything if not taught correctly...and then find themselves oddly miserable years down the road...har har har)

    It also encourages white women who fall in love with Muslims to switch to the other side...which hopefully angers White Men thus making political action to stop Muslim immigration more permissible.

    As long as interracial marriage acts as a 'safety valve' (like mexican immigration acts as a safety valve for the elites) things will only go from bad to worse for people who consciously decide to protect their heritage.

    I like Hijab’s and Burqa’s though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them (White men will marry anything if not taught correctly…and then find themselves oddly miserable years down the road…har har har)

    I have long been saying something like this. My response to those who complained, “But it’s a hamper to assimilation!” was the same as Clyde Wilson’s response to similar complaints about illegal aliens: “I would prefer they do not assimilate. They will be easier to deport if they are not assimilated.”

  80. @I, Libertine
    Very true. Here in New York, we have plenty of both NoI and muslim immigrants. They seemingly have nothing to do with each other.

    It will be interesting once there are Shiite and Sunni neighborhoods, and how American government will respond to the inevitable violence between these two adversarial groups – they will bring all their squabbles from Iraq & Syria to Queens!

    It will be a real headache for MSM and Progressives. Although, Shiites like the Iranians, are less likely to wear ugly-assed burquas/head coverings if in the USA. Sunnis definitely have uglier “outer wear.”

    • Replies: @yowza

    It will be a real headache for MSM and Progressives. Although, Shiites like the Iranians, are less likely to wear ugly-assed burquas/head coverings if in the USA. Sunnis definitely have uglier “outer wear.”
     
    My god! You're like a wizard!!

    http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/08/france-burqini-ban/495857/
  81. @Anonymous
    I've seen older white ladies wearing hijabs at my local health food store. They're the progressive old white woman types who you'd see 15 years ago driving new VW Bugs with Namaste and Coexist bumper stickers. I don't know if they converted Islam from yoga and Buddhism or they are just donning the hijab out of solidarity.

    Relatedly, white women are becoming the enemy of the white man. No wonder Derb and other white guys are going for the yellow woman. When's the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she's not?

    When’s the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she’s not?

    When she’s trying to attract a Western man, maybe?

    I would not even consider an Asiatic woman for matrimonial purposes unless she were third-generation, Western born and raised Christian. In other words, a Westerner with an Oriental face. Otherwise, absolutely out of the question that any household of mine have have any Asiatic insignias whatsoever beyond occasional spicy recipes and nostalgic dress-ups, much less to spend my holidays in China, Vietnam or Thailand. Some a Western men are okay with giving their lives and their kids up this way. I am not.

  82. It seems like a nightmare come true.I have been seeing this takeover of America by the Dark Side for a long time. I hope there is still hope to stop it.

  83. OT – I cannot find any news about Sheldon Adelson and whether or not he has coughed up the $100 million he pledged in May to support Trump’s campaign. It is getting pretty late in the day. Both conventions are over and we are nearing Labor Day.

    Have they had a falling out?

  84. It’s wahabification + asserting ownership of turf.

    In suburban West London on the ’70s and ’80s hijabs were not seen at all. Nowadays it isn’t uncommon to see 5 year olds wearing them.

    There are more Muslims, of course, but the hijab- wearers are not all FOB. Back then they considered themselves guests; now they are unafraid about imposing their norms on their womenfolk.

    A somewhat amusing aside – yesterday a friend told me that her hairdressers “Farrah’s” was about to change its name because people now associate it with Somalis rather than Farrah Fawcett.

  85. @Pseudonymic
    No one ever says this, but I bet that a fair number of Muslim women like the burqas because they take off the pressure to stay thin. It's a lot harder to tell how much someone weighs when they're wearing a loose-fitting sheet.

    It worked for Homer >

  86. Islam added to the American Black experience is like adding gasoline on a fire:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89e_1471267870

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    I think the most disturbing thing about the video is that security had less than no idea what to do with the woman. She was drunk, on drugs, crazy, or all three. They allowed her/goaded her to develop a full head of steam. She should have been ejected or arrested as soon as she became abusive to the employees, and the employees themselves should be disciplined for responding to her in kind.

    What happened indicates to me that Walmart gives virtually no security training to its employees or security staff. This is going to come back and bite them when there is a real security threat.

    And I realize that if the woman was escorted physically out, there would be a 25% chance of a lawsuit, with a significant chance of being won. The Obama administration and its appointed judges are explicitly on the side of criminals. But, that's part of the cost of doing business in the country right now.
  87. I’ve really noticed the same trend around here, and I think it’s both the result of more immigration and more attitude.

    “Around here” used to be the nexus of New England and New York, you know, one of the birthplaces of European Man’s glorious offspring of England called the United States of America.

    It’s looking more and more like the rest of the world all the time…

  88. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    Josh,
    Western women haven’t worn head veils and wimples (neck coverings) since about 1300. Your statement is idiotic. Get on the Internet or to your nearest public library and check out History of Costume.

    Body, leg and arm coverings are modest. But covering the hair???? Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman. Men may think long or short, curly or straight, and various colors of hair are attractive.

    But no one is sexually turned in by hair. Men are turned on by bodies and faces, not hair so hair covering is not sexual modesty.
    BTW the reason people wore hats scarves veils and other head coverings in the old days was prevention of lice.

    Unlike fleas, lice cannot live more than about 5 or 6 hours without sucking on blood from the scalp. Unlike fleas who can find a seam and get to the body quickly lice cannot borrow through cloth, leather, straw or whatever easily

    Lice cannot climb up braids either which is why girls wore their hair in braids for centuries.

    The hijab burka niqab thing is just a sign of militancy and supremacy

    And again your comment that a hair covering is sexual modesty is ridiculous

    • Disagree: Ozymandias
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman."
     
    Please explain this to the Saudi religious police (mutawaeen) who insist that women cover their hair specifically because of the sexual attractiveness. And I agree with them. Beautiful hair is attractive. And I suspect you (or at least your id) actually agrees too, even if you (ego-you) won't admit it. Have you dated many bald women in your life?
    , @European-American
    > Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman

    It's very interesting to me that you (and some others here) should say this. On the one hand, I see your point: hair? You've gotta be kidding me, what's sexy about hair? [visualizing a hairbrush]

    On the other hand you have about all of Western literature going against you. And fashion. And advertising. And this very basic biology argument: healthy and profuse hair signifies youth and health and therefore the ability to reproduce, which is the basis for sexiness.

    That people here are denying that female hair is sexually attractive is really fascinating, and shows what a bunch of nerds we are here.

    By the way, here's an interesting wrinkle: why did Mother Teresa wear a veil? Surely at her age there was little chance that her old, gray, unhealthy-looking hair would cause lustful thoughts or deeds?

    Obviously because, if unattractive women are allowed not to wear veils, then anyone wearing a veil is likely to be attractive, and then a veil becomes an object of lust, oops!

    But wait a minute... If I see someone in a veil, that means it's a woman... That's kinda hot... To correct this I propose that men also wear veils, or better yet burkas, so no one knows if that shape over there is a man or a woman. Or just hide everyone behind screens and keyboards. Problem solved!

    , @Ken
    How many bald chicks have you dated?
  89. @Marcus
    Really? I have a photo of my great grandmother and she doesn't appear to be wearing any kind of headscarf. Hair isn't sexual anyway, it's about segregation rather than "modesty." Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women.

    Having twenty-years of experience in the Middle East, I’ve reached one conclusion: There is a comical sideshow associated with polygamous, Muslim societies.

    If a Muslim male can have more than one wife, he never stops “dating”. Since marriages in Muslim societies are almost always arranged marriages (legal contracts) between families for business purposes or schemes to increase family wealth, Muslims in their native societies find it hard to date. Therefore, the loose, free-flowing relationships between the sexes in Western society are just too much to bear. “So many women … and so little time!”

    There is another quirk in Muslim culture. In Muslim culture, females (like males in Western society) are assumed to be the sexual aggressors, which is why women need to be held under wraps. They cannot sexually control themselves. Women making eye contact with men … or exposing their curves, legs, or elbows … are sexually communicating their availability. On the other hand, in Muslim society men (like women in Western society), cannot control their emotions. Therefore, if a woman (the aggressor) communicates sexual availability and a man (who cannot control his emotions) responds, it is the woman’s fault, which is why women who are raped in Muslim countries are typically held responsible for the rape. If it was not for the woman’s “come ons”, the rape would never have happened.

    Notice that this turns the relationships between men and women in Western and Muslim societies on their heads. The two cultures are like two ships passing in the night. They can never comes to terms or understand each other because their perceptions regarding the nature of human beings and the functioning society stands at the antipodes of human perception and experience.

    What is Black to a Westerner is White to a Muslim; and what is Black to a Muslim is White to a Westerner. Is this what makes DIVERSITY so much fun?

    • Replies: @Forbes
    That perspective (of opposite attraction perceptions) makes sense today. Yet, I do wonder how much is due to social conformity, e.g. Western women are certainly less modest in attire over the last half-century, while (some) Islamic societies that had been Westernized until 50 years ago have moved in the opposite direction. Certainly the case in Egypt. Iran, until the return of the Ayatollah, was similar to the West. Indian and Pakistani Muslims that migrated to the UK in the ~'60s were inconspicuous/assimilative in attire. There seems to be a finer grained distinction than just Western vs Muslim. Thoughts?
  90. Like Steve, I too live in Los Angeles. I see loose tops and hijab a all the time. I see full shroud face and hair coverings about once a week in my local commercial district.
    They are doing it more and more.

  91. I can confirm that very aggressive pushy Islamists in masks and burkas were in large numbers yesterday on North Michigan Avenue here in Chicago.

  92. @Anonymous
    I've seen older white ladies wearing hijabs at my local health food store. They're the progressive old white woman types who you'd see 15 years ago driving new VW Bugs with Namaste and Coexist bumper stickers. I don't know if they converted Islam from yoga and Buddhism or they are just donning the hijab out of solidarity.

    Relatedly, white women are becoming the enemy of the white man. No wonder Derb and other white guys are going for the yellow woman. When's the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she's not?

    Smart, Working Class White women are the natural ally of White men (and a resource more precious than gold and diamonds). Professional, Upper Class White women are the (current) sworn enemy of White men. This suggests that the proper response would be political judo, White men to encourage the total purging of White women from Professional ranks (best by Muslim women in a hijab who are the significantly younger third wife of a Muslim man).

    What do you call a White Professional woman who was fired in favor of a hijab wearing younger woman with two other co-wives to a Muslim man? A Trump voter, a racist, etc.
    ————
    My own observations as a SoCal native and Orange County resident for most of it is that BOTH massive new immigrants from Muslim countries AND the anti-White (male) agenda furthered by White Professional upper class women in the broad and toxic spoils and culture alliance (feminism is just anti-White beta male female rage) has produced a massive new influx of burqas and hijabs.

    For example, South Coast Plaza. In the 1980s, it was mostly a White playground, I had been there many times. It was quite crowded, and had stores catering to White Middle/Upper classes: Rizollis, Brentanos, Pickwick Books. In the early-mid 1990s this continued, a bit more Hispanic by the Sears anchor but with (since departed) Ghiradelli Chocolate (I miss that place) and the MOMA store and Rand McNally, etc. Asian tourists started coming in significant numbers (mostly Chinese, not Japanese) during this time: 1990-1995. Muslims were a very rare presence.

    Muslims started to appear in the mid 2000’s, as South Coast Plaza rapidly changed to a non-White majority place, catering to ultra rich Chinese (there is an Omega, Rolex, and IWC watch place each across from each other by the carousel on the second level). AND, significantly, Muslims in full hijabs/burqas.

    Fashion Island in Newport Beach, was still White and very rich White too up until around 2006 or so; after that very large numbers of Muslims started coming in, visible by the beards and dresses the men wear and the tents the women wear. Now, you can go on a busy weekend and see lots and lots of Muslims chattering in Arabic, often with kids in tow (boys in jeans/tshirts, girls in tents). These seem to be residents.

    Irvine CA has gone from “boring” but safe, nice White suburbia in the 1980s to massively Chinese in the 1990s (where mid-level oligarchs stash their cash and kids) to very massively Muslim, part Iranian, part Arab Sunni Muslim. The Iranians are mostly anti-Khomeni exiles, not particularly religious, and not particularly obnoxious. The Arab Sunni Muslims are rude, hostile, and all over the place.

    Point being is that Orange County has gone from a Whitopia into basically a combat zone, and it happened very fast and has made me at any rate always looking to maintain situational awareness and be ready for any attack. I don’t feel comfortable in my own home county — like I was still living in New Orleans which I did not enjoy either.

    My own personal observation is that in New Orleans, there were no Nice White Ladies. The ever present threat of ultra violent crime from the dysfunctional (far worse than South Central Los Angeles) Black underclass made them impossible even among Professional White women.

    Portlandia can only exist when you’re not “head on a swivel” looking for the next attack.

  93. @Tiny Duck
    Muslim women are not forced to cover up. They makes the free decision. Obviously Muslim culture is seen as superior to western white "culture". The proof is in the pudding.

    I actually think covering up is a positive development. I wish all women felt so inclined. Covered up women aren't throwing their sexuality in the face of frustrated men. I think it is better for society as a whole if women are covered up so as not to inflame the rage and anger of non alpha men

    ……yawn

  94. In a way this is a positive development: the more alien and hostile immigrants appear the more likely there will finally be some kind of backlash. We don’t want them to assimilate.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    Exactly!

    It promotes a healthy sense of them & us.

  95. @Lagertha
    It will be interesting once there are Shiite and Sunni neighborhoods, and how American government will respond to the inevitable violence between these two adversarial groups - they will bring all their squabbles from Iraq & Syria to Queens!

    It will be a real headache for MSM and Progressives. Although, Shiites like the Iranians, are less likely to wear ugly-assed burquas/head coverings if in the USA. Sunnis definitely have uglier "outer wear."

    It will be a real headache for MSM and Progressives. Although, Shiites like the Iranians, are less likely to wear ugly-assed burquas/head coverings if in the USA. Sunnis definitely have uglier “outer wear.”

    My god! You’re like a wizard!!

    http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/08/france-burqini-ban/495857/

  96. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    They took Brechts suggestion…..they’re electing a new people!

    I’m curious as to why Muslims though? Because they generally will take a shit ton of abuse from the government is all I can come up with!

  97. @Cabrini Green Mommy
    I think it was John Durant who once commented that the amount of skin women can show in a society is a sign of the men's capacity for personal restraint and impulse control.

    This. The pagan Arabs, Persians and many other south Asians probably veiled women long before Islam. It goes back to what James Watson and others have said about melAnin and sex drive. Sadly, we know have ample supporting evidence with how “men” from these areas react to the sight of non-secluded women in Europe and elsewhere.

  98. @Tiny Duck
    Muslim women are not forced to cover up. They makes the free decision. Obviously Muslim culture is seen as superior to western white "culture". The proof is in the pudding.

    I actually think covering up is a positive development. I wish all women felt so inclined. Covered up women aren't throwing their sexuality in the face of frustrated men. I think it is better for society as a whole if women are covered up so as not to inflame the rage and anger of non alpha men

    Tiny Duck

    Apparently Muslim men are absolutely inflamed when thinking about what lies underneath the coverings. It also facilitates the arranged marriages as the bride and groom can’t see how ugly they are before the wedding.
    In fact, to covering thing is a reason why Muslims tend to be ugly. When looks are a factor in reproduction, nice looking people reproduce. When they are covered in trash bags and beards the ugly reproduce and after a few centuries everyone is moderately to very ugly.

    There are a lot of Muslim burka and head veil women in my neighborhood and they all have ugly faces. The little girls wear regular clothes. Everyone I have seen in the past 20 years is ugly, ugly because the parents grandparents and ancestors were ugly.

    • Replies: @Clyde

    Apparently Muslim men are absolutely inflamed when thinking about what lies underneath the coverings. It also facilitates the arranged marriages as the bride and groom can’t see how ugly they are before the wedding.
    In fact, to covering thing is a reason why Muslims tend to be ugly. When looks are a factor in reproduction, nice looking people reproduce. When they are covered in trash bags and beards the ugly reproduce and after a few centuries everyone is moderately to very ugly.

    There are a lot of Muslim burka and head veil women in my neighborhood and they all have ugly faces. The little girls wear regular clothes. Everyone I have seen in the past 20 years is ugly, ugly because the parents grandparents and ancestors were ugly.
     

    Your very original take. I have not seen anywhere else. Ugly women who are the result of generations of inbreeding love the Islamic evolutionary strategy which elevates them into marriage worthy prospects and makes the Jews with their Kev MacDonald evolutionary strategy look like chumps and pissants. Far as Muslim gals/females/whatever you left out ugly and dull and half witted due to inbreeding.
  99. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Exactly. For me, the issue of immigration is about the culture, not the economy.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Your description is correct. I see the same things in similiar places here on the East Coast. I am old enough now to have directly witnessed these changes as they have occurred during the past half-century. They appear to be progressing at an increasing, non-linear rate.
  100. @CAL
    It is both. More Muslims and more Muslims willing to shove it in your face. Someone showed how Egyptian Muslims devolved from the 50's to now with regards to Muslim dress. We're witnessing the same thing here.

    Devolved ? They simply regressed towards their mean. They’re going back to (almost) normal.

  101. @peterike

    Hindu ladies on the street in Chicago in saris are exotic, colorful, and diverse

     

    Sez that guy. I find Hindu ladies in saris to be nauseating.

    Ditto, I usually wish Indian women would actually cover up more. All the sari wearers I’ve seen in daily life have been for lack of a better word… Woof. Exotic is the last word I would use to describe fat rolls in full display.

  102. @European in America
    Coming to Chicago from the West Coast originally, I too have noticed the large number of hijabs. I live in a touristy area and I would say possibly as many 1 in 20 women wear hijab (although they are probably visiting from some other neighborhood).

    That said, I would argue that the "mujahabat" (women that wear hijab) fall in two categories: Older women from the old country who just wear it out of tradition and for whom it would be unthinkable and very uncomfortable to dress differently, and younger, American born women who do it as a conscious identity thing. The first category I don't mind, the second makes me a little uncomfortable. I also see families where one sibling dresses western and the other wears hijab.

    My wife who is Iranian also noticed this and expressed bafflement at how the younger american hijab wearers dress like that. Iranians outside Iran (where hijab is mandatory) practically never wear hijab.

    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you’re in jeans. I’ve seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can’t do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we’re close to our destination. Otherwise, they’re just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    • Replies: @European in America
    No, it is mandatory, it's just that they don't enforce it as strictly as before, and Iranian women are constantly pushing the envelope. Each year the hijabs become smaller and more colorful, and more and more hair is visible.
    , @helena
    "I’ve seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. "

    That's a lovely description. I agree there is something quite lovely about the Iranian loose and light head-scarf style.

    , @Forbes
    I had a friend who was an engineer for Babcock & Wilcox building power gen/de-salination plants in Saudi Arabia during the '80s. He marveled at the hypocrisy, After take-off, the pilot would announce leaving Saudi airspace, and all the traditional Saudi garb would come off, and the drinks cart would come out from locked storage. With the reverse occurring on return flights.
    , @Nico
    Iran Shia Islam is known for its libertine, party-hearty and not particularly pious youth. In their mind, the Islamic Republic is an historical accident, an anomaly, a cross-confessional quirk just waiting to be banished.
    , @Daniel H
    >>Otherwise, they’re just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    On average, Iranian women are quite good looking.
  103. @Kylie
    Exactly. For me, the issue of immigration is about the culture, not the economy.

    Your description is correct. I see the same things in similiar places here on the East Coast. I am old enough now to have directly witnessed these changes as they have occurred during the past half-century. They appear to be progressing at an increasing, non-linear rate.

  104. Take it from me, a life long resident of Dearborn, Michigan. Its both. Increased numbers due to immigration and Moooslims already here, feeling empowered and proud of their Moooooslim heritage.

    Islam is a problem. Period. It does not belong in the West.

    • Replies: @Lot

    a life long resident of Dearborn, Michigan
     
    So how is it like and how has it changed? If you are feeling ambitious, you should write something up longer and perhaps Steve can ask vdare to post it as an anonymous guest column.
  105. “No one ever says this, but I bet that a fair number of Muslim women like the burqas because they take off the pressure to stay thin. It’s a lot harder to tell how much someone weighs when they’re wearing a loose-fitting sheet.”

    Quite possibly. I remember way back in the pre-9/11 ’90s reading one or two articles where young Muslim women said, “Ya know, we don’t mind the headscarf, or even the veil sometimes. No big deal if we have a bad hair day or don’t want to put on make up.”

  106. “All the employee’s were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store.”
    Well gee screen test, that would have been hateful. Dogs are just little people ya know!

    The animal rights fervor and “furbaby” attitude are another chapter in America’s decline, but I’m digressing too much.

  107. @TheJester
    AndrewR,

    Check your history. Although the face was not covered, it was typical for women to wear full head coverings in the West during the Middle Ages. They looked somewhat like nuns when wearing, in our time, the older religious garb. Full face veils were popular with upper class Western women through the 18th Century to hide facial scars from small pox.

    I traveled extensively in the Middle East from the 1980s through the 1990s. When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s ... fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt.

    Times we forget: In the 1950s, women and girls in the United States were not allowed in Catholic churches without a head covering, even if only a small handkerchief; they also were not allowed to wear pants or expose their arms. The issue was modesty. In some communities in the United States in the 1950s, women were arrested for wearing short-shorts in public. They violated local ordinances.

    That said, there is without question a general race to religious fundamentalism in the Middle East under the influence (or threat) or the Saudi-based Wahhabi religious sect. I doubt if the women I met in Bahrain in the early 1990s could get away with wearing Western fashions in public today, regardless of how modest.

    In the West, all it takes is to look and see that there is a general race to the bottom at the other extreme for women and girls. In the 1980s in California, I once took my son to high school ... only to observe a coed going in the front door dressed in a low hanging halter top, high cut gym shorts, and thongs. (Having enough of social anarchy in California schools, I decided to move the family out of state.) In Virginia where we now live, an article in the Washington Post a few years ago covering social issues regarding dancing and dress in local high schools commented that teachers often called the coed race to the bottom in dress as "the whore wars".

    A question: Given the radical social conservatism among Muslims and the radical social liberalism among Westerners today, is tolerance and diversity that includes both extremes even possible? The cultural, social, and religious values of the one condemn the other.

    Excellent point! Just a century or so ago, even the ultra-liberal Nordics were wearing very modest clothing. Anyone can see by searching for terms like ‘traditional nordic dress’ and seeing whatever older photographs or sketches come up. And once you get into the Eastern Europeans, then even many traditional folks like Cossacks still cover up the hair.

    Now, as an insider, being a Muslim who moved into Chicago (from Southern California – opposite of Mr. Sailer) for the purposes of preserving religion, I can say Chicago is not very archetypal for the rest of the Muslim community. It has generally very strong religious identity (due mostly to the existence of many traditional institutions and scholars) compared to the rest of North America. The only other cities that compare are; Toronto, parts of NY, Atlanta, Philly, parts of Texas.

    The women in niqab that are seen come from usually two backgrounds; Salafi/Wahhabi and traditional Sunni Orthodox (following the stricter opinion). With the Salafi/Wahhabi, you usually the solid black or dark brown and little diversity and there is probably little likelihood this is going to change because much of it is just an import of the local Saudi or Najdi culture as “Islam”. The other portion of women will vary styles (wearing pink, floral patterns, etc.) as is reflective of much of the Muslim culture in the world; niqab can be very locally diverse and ornamented – from the Berbers, rural Iran, etc. Just look up images for ‘ornate niqab’ or ‘niqab styles’ and one can see that niqabs were part of local identity much as turban styles were (from Balochistan to Oman). Some are actually made of ornate chain links or even reminiscent of some ancient face plate armor or even mardi gras masks.

    But this is part of a wider discussion/debate within Muslim circles and has little to do with Trump at all – this has been going on since the 90’s when there was a genuine religious revival among the common Muslims; what defines modesty and how should it fit into the West? So you have certain uncompromising outlooks:
    http://sunnahstyle.com/

    Versus styles that are designed with local culture in view:
    http://shukronline.com/

    My wife’s own teacher who has many students that wear niqab and just hijab has emphasized to them to not wear just black or darks or wear simply abayas or jilbabs in public. Precisely because of how hostile it appears – which seems to be confirmed in many of the comments here.

    And good work getting the kids out of California, though it seems the ‘whore wars’ are being fought on every front now. Way worse than when I went to high school.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    Where is Fellini when we need him:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eJp-83RQD8
  108. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Wearing a hajib in Chicago is its own payback. The Middle East is sunny year-round. Chicago is a higher latitude city, and these women will not be getting enough Vitamin D via their skin, especially during and after winter. This means they’ll be prone to illness and depression, and any children they have will likely have a higher rate of birth defects, especially since these women are probably somewhat inbred already. Bad health is a cause of poverty. You can’t work if you’re sick, and handicapped children are a financial drain.

    Hajib-wearing women are also more likely to be traditional and not work, meaning their husbands will be the sole bread-winner. Hajibs can also interfere with work at a job by getting physically in the way, and they can impair transactions with customers at a service job by creeping out non-Muslims and making them go elsewhere for their business.

    In short, hajib-wearing is a route to poverty.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "You can’t work if you’re sick, and handicapped children are a financial drain."
     
    Most of the recent family-reunification-type Muslim immigrants are on some kind of welfare or other, so the financial drain is on us, not them.
  109. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn’t hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    This describes what I experienced at a couple of rest stops while driving along the N.J. Turnpike a few summers ago. Very few white people and many unfriendly-looking foreign-type people. I have since decided to avoid the N.J. Turnpike.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock’s, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    I remember this, too, and I don’t understand why the elites in the West are willing to give this up. They can hide themselves away in gated communities or wherever sonewhat, but even they have to wander out to more public areas, which have become much less pleasant. Even driving on the roads can be a less nice (and sometimes less safe) experience now. And there is also the issue of what appears to be a huge increase in litter along American roads. Has anyone else noticed more litter these days?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I remember when the Iranians start to show up in Bullocks and May Company stores in Sherman Oaks around 1974. I sort of imagined they were French. It turned out they were Friends of the Shah who were skimming off the 1973 rise in oil prices back home and feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.
    , @PiltdownMan

    I have since decided to avoid the N.J. Turnpike.
     

    So, what's your alternate route? The Garden State Parkway ? A north-south succession of minor state roads?

    This is important information for reasons other than the one you state.

  110. Steve,
    Just took a look at fertility rates for Muslim countries (this is what I do after the wife and daughter go to bed). A lot of pundits have discussed the falling Muslim fertility rates and that there is nothing to see here. However, a lot of countries are still quite high and seem to have stabilized.

    Afghanistan – 5.33
    Yemen – 3.91
    Iraq – 4.12
    Somalia – 5.99
    Jordan – 3.17

    Have we reached a bottom to the decline in fertility rates? Has the religious component in Muslim countries reached a critical mass? Also, we also keep hearing that Iran has a cratering population. However, its TFR is 1.83. Will is start picking up again at some point now that it has been pretty well Islamized? I honestly don’t know. Curious to hear from others who have studied this in depth.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Then there are the black Sahel countries like Mali on the southern edge of the Sahara. They have the highest TFRs in the world mostly.
  111. Where discretion trumps prosecution, rape afficianado Somali’s flock to Denmark:

    http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1255/denmark-at-least-eight-rapes-every-day.html

    Forget your diabetes medication?

    Best bend over, and think of windmills, because…
    that’s a rapin’…

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37088144

  112. @anon930
    Here in Boston, I was shocked to see how many hijabis there are on the T. I don't even remember seeing anywhere close to this many even last year. It's also possible that I'm just more aware of these things because of the news (i.e. the Trump campaign, the migrant crisis etc.)

    My impression from a recent trip there is that it’s the most Muslim major city of the US. That presumably comes from all the students. Many of them rich foreigners.

  113. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Your Target checkout line example is repeated in various ways around the country. The situations are typically cringe-inducing to natives, and usually involve some gross violation of common courtesy or acceptable behavior.

    Here is an example. My wife was in her car, waiting for another car to pull out of a parking spot. The driver behind her bumped into her stopped car, then got out to level a false accusation of backing up into her. Even though the parking lot attendant and others witnessed the whole scene, and would testify as to that driver’s fault, that driver decided to file an accident report. We got that tossed immediately and encouraged the DMV to go after her. The attendant said that he had to referee such issues routinely.

    The underlying message for those drivers, or shoppers, or tenants, or other miscreants is to push for whatever you think you can get away with, and not what is right. That is yet another activity that undermines the benefits that our country accrued through the rule of law.

  114. That Greeley Co church dance that Syaid Q tai attended was for the married couples club. The index ten touching was done by married couples dancing with each other.

    Foreplay of any kind is considered obscene by strict Muslims Boys are for love women for making babies.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    That's what makes them alphas.
  115. @Cabrini Green Mommy
    I think it was John Durant who once commented that the amount of skin women can show in a society is a sign of the men's capacity for personal restraint and impulse control.

    Thus Sub-Saharan African and Amazonian tribes have no peers in this regard!

  116. @Pseudonymic
    No one ever says this, but I bet that a fair number of Muslim women like the burqas because they take off the pressure to stay thin. It's a lot harder to tell how much someone weighs when they're wearing a loose-fitting sheet.

    It is the ultimate feminist statement as it neutralizes female beauty. Naomi Wolf must love it.

    Who can tell what cheekbones, skin smoothness or lips reside behind the veil?

  117. @Patrick Harris
    I live in the Philly area and can hardly count the number of hijabs I see in crowded places. Contrary to Steve's friend, though, on an individual level I don't find them especially bothersome or much more alienating than saris (which is not the same thing as saying I don't worry about them collectively).

    No, what really weirds me out are the niqabs.

    They're not common, but they are noticeable: probably at least a dozen times a year I see women in the full-black only-eyes-visible getup, including a neighbor in my suburban apartment complex, and *that* is profoundly alienating. Women's hair, whatever: a few old church ladies still cover that up on Sundays. Nobody who hides their face from you wants to participate in your society as anything other than a consumer or a self-seeking interest group (at best).

    Unlike the hijabi women, the ones I see in niqabs are nearly always black. Moreover, I have heard some of them talk, and they tend to sound like American blacks. Which makes me wonder: are these (previously) culturally assimilated African immigrants gravitating to fundamentalist Islam? Are Black Muslims (in the Farrakhan sense) getting more extreme in their dress codes? Or are a significant number of African Americans becoming Salafists? I'm legitimately curious, although none of the alternatives sound good.

    Second that…niqabs are quite creepy and emanate hostility….

  118. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anders
    I recently moved back to Philadelphia and it's amazing how many women I see wearing burquas. They appear to be mostly African-American women but they are everywhere downtown.

    Well, that’s one way to solve the ‘black women are less attractive than white women’ problem that black women angst about a lot.

    I wonder if someone’s ever proposed the idea that the burka was adopted as an item of clothing in the Middle East because it hides ugliness. In a society based on arranged marriages, it could be used to delude grooms until it’s too late to break it off without a lot of trouble.

    Lack of a burka may have been a genetic driver in making white women more attractive than women in many other places of the planet. If men can see what all the women in a community look like, they’ll chase after the prettiest ones, and those women will be the most likely to breed, and more likely to have more children than the ugly ones. 10,000 years of this sort of selective pressure will produce overall effects in the entire white breeding pool.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    In a way, I see your point. I have been weirded-out by burqas and niqabs for a long time....wondering why this is even still a "thing" for today's Muslims (mostly Sunni). I admit to having often thought about the "ugly girls hidden under burqas," so their cultural male counterparts will remember "home cooking," or something pathetic and homely like that.

    And, true, beautiful girls have always had hundreds of suitors beyond their needs. Beautiful girls rule in so many ways. So, maybe the burqa is a way for men to know they get a virgin wife that only produces their progeny - even guys that are not goodlooking will get a virgin bride. However, the lack-of-burqa women will always be that siren call for men, Muslim or not. And, even a not so pretty girl with a hot body is still a hot magnet - "'cause what you see is what you get." So, in my humble opinion (Ehrhmpphh!) burqa-clad still lose by 1. But, if you really hate men (or were stuck with daddy picking one for you) but want children, being under a giant lamp shade may be a weird trade-off.

    I am in my Autumn years as a woman. Yet, when I walk along the boulevards of the Nordic countries, the only young men who stare me down are MENA men. The only other men who stare me down are the silver foxes (I fullly accept that 70+ guys are now hitting on me) in the Rockies when I am skiin' or snow shoeing :)!

  119. Ages ago I took a class on Islam and the professor told us the head covering predates Mohammed. Rich women in the Arabian Peninsula were always covered. The lower class women began to imitate them as often happens.

    About head covers in church, I wear one:
    1 Corinthians 11 :5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    Hijab means curtain or screen (of separation): body covering is only a part of it. Practices like this were indeed practiced by various aristocracies well before Muhammad, see also purdah in South Asia. Lower class women had to be out in the fields helping with the harvest.
  120. @Lagertha
    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women. There was never a need for a feminist movement in most of the Nordic countries. Yeah, and gag me with a spoon, with those annoying bumper stickers! I actually loathe my generation's boomer feminists...a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.

    Probably the major reason they wear the black trash bags is to create anti Muslim hate crime statistics
    CAIR and liberals are always posting anti Muslim hate crime statistics. Dig into them and you will find that 100 percent of the hate crimes are Muslim women reporting that someone looked
    at them in their Halloween costume.

    Like the black thugs looking for trouble, all this hijab display contributes to CAIR’s power through victimization tactics.

    Muslim takeover of Skokie and Glenview I’ll? Wow!!! Those suburbs used to be solidly Jewish

  121. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Target, pfff. You should see Walmart. The employees speak so many different languages (which usually don’t include English in anything more than broken scraps), I wonder how they can even work together effectively.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam's, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I'd never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.
    , @Marcus
    One of the most "amusing" things I've seen recently was a group of Desi girls trying to walk tepidly past a yoof blaring rap from his parked car in the Walmart parking lot, that level of vibrancy is really a national treasure.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Lord isn't that the truth. We are definitely strangers in our own country when to hear only Spanish is close to comforting.

    God I hate the "Elites", including the Charles Murray's of the world that are bashing Trump.
  122. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    Screen Test-

    As fellow life-long resident of L.A. you described exactly my daily experiences. I recall with fondness going shopping at the Del Amo Mall in Torrance and just wandering around with my mom somewhere within earshot. Friendly faces, similar faces, it felt right and like home. None of that today. When I get off the freeway for work in the morning I feel like I’ve been transported to a foreign land. Signs in Spanish, graffiti everywhere, street peddlers hawking their wares in the middle of lanes.

    I think what hit home most was your comment stating, “…little families from all over the world, in their own little universes floating around.” I have had that exact same thought over and over. There is no sense of community that I can discern. It just seems like a mad push to acquire stuff and exist.

    One final comment related to the dog in the basket you mentioned. I live a few blocks from the beach and was chatting with a lifeguard friend a week or two ago down on the sand. We saw a rotund middle-eastern looking lady walking toward the guard tower and as she got closer we noticed that she had a small dog with her. My lifeguard buddy approached her to remind her that dogs aren’t allowed on the beach and the local cops would cite her. It turned into a full blown brouhaha with the lady going into a rage. A few moments later my buddy came back over and sighed. He said that the lady was pissed that he didn’t know her dog was a certified “help” dog. The lady wasn’t blind and this wasn’t a full sized dog. It was some little yapper dog that fits in hoity toity people’s purses. But it was a service dog and she could do whatever she wanted. Total breakdown of civilization…

    • Replies: @Lot
    The majority of California's obnoxious dog owners now call them "service animals." There is no rule or body to certify the need for one, so people just buy a certificate and shirt for the dog online for $15. If they are ever pushed, they figure they can say they are for "emotional support."
  123. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    I think it’s important to chronicle these seemingly inconsequential, everyday experiences. Others surely have these same impressions of alienation in their own country, but they don’t allow themselves to reflect on it–let alone connect it to policy in any conscious way. It’s important that these experiences be articulated.

    We need something like Face to Face with Race, but for immigration.
    https://store.amren.com/product/books/face-to-face-with-race/

    On the subject of what’s behind the noticeable increase in Muslim dress: Someone I encounter through work started wearing a cap just after the Paris Bataclan massacre last fall. He’s under 30 and quite friendly to speak with; I presume he was born in the US. I believe he is aware of his amiability and that others view him positively, so I think his message here is “Hey, I’m a nice guy. Bet you didn’t know I’m a Muslim, too! You probably feel pretty bad about the Islamaphobia in your head now…” This is the best case scenario for what looks to be “absimilation”. Still, I ultimately can’t help but interpret this all as middle finger in my face.

    Though I’m begrudgingly not religious, I’m very tempted to wear a cross pendant in some sort of cultural solidarity, or at the least to ward off snarky cultural-Marxist comments in my presence. I can’t be the only one considering this. Just as I’m apparently not the only one who had a chilling experience on a rare but recent trip to a Target.

    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Lot
    Something to keep in the back of your mind if you ever do interviewing or hiring.

    Still, I ultimately can’t help but interpret this all as middle finger in my face.
     
    Of course it is.

    I’m very tempted to wear a cross pendant in some sort of cultural solidarity, or at the least to ward off snarky cultural-Marxist comments in my presence.
     
    The best response is to have a big family and donate to Steve and to Trump.
  124. @Stick
    It's a version of the Black Shack Phenomena. During Vietnam the Marine higher headquarters identified the 'Black Shack' effect within their units. Simply stated, when Blacks begin to approach roughly 10% of a unit, they would self segregate and become very pissy and self absorbed. Under 10%, Blacks identified with the unit and it's ethos and community. The Hijab is in effect a Black Shack effect. When a neighborhood approaches 10% Crazy Muslim, the women will cover themselves for self protection. Same deal.

    A little diversity goes a long way - too much and you are being colonized.

    Thank you. Very interesting. I’ve long suspected that naive open borders liberals do not understand how the dynamic changes once a minority hits critical mass. A solitary, outgoing Mexican or Chinese or Black in your social group can be a lot of fun, and I had them all at one point or other. But it all changes with numbers.

    It’s kinda sad too because my mushy liberal parent in LA adored Asians and Hispanics, and tried to strike up friendships but they treated her cautiously and never returned the favor. I had more luck here in Montana than she did in SoCal.

  125. @International Jew
    Target, pfff. You should see Walmart. The employees speak so many different languages (which usually don't include English in anything more than broken scraps), I wonder how they can even work together effectively.

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.
     
    Of course, here in Texas, and elsewhere in the South, there was a foreign army that invaded and conquered us.
    , @Anonymous

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.
     
    I was just at a Whole Foods. I'm standing in line around all this wimpy betas with there masculine wives at the checkout. Some with their obnoxious progeny ("Jacob, will you help your father out with those [recyclable] bags?"). I'm standing looking at all the crap at the checkout. Sustainable earth this, sustainable planet that. And I almost had a Michael Douglas in Falling Down meltdown. I felt like calming stating, "I love all this sustainable planet bullshit you people arrange your life around. Me? I'm just looking for sustainable civilization. A civilization free from the ghoulish figures in burkas I had to pass on my way walking in here. Or the beta "mammals" (MAMILs, middle aged men in Lycra) I was stuck behind between lights while driving here. Sustainable civilization is what I'd like. I'm not quixotic, I'd just like to live in an America which is half as nice as the America my parents grew up in. Is that to much to ask for?"

    But I kept my mouth shut, smiled, bought my energy gel packs and went on my way. Pearls before swine.
    , @International Jew
    My Spanish is not so great but these days I find it's more productive to "press 2 for Spanish" because there, the person you get actually knows Spanish, where the "English" operators often know next to no English. (It can take a little while to realize this though. They start with fluent renditions of "Thank you for waiting" or "I'll be happy to help you". But as you try to explain your problem, you realize they aren't following you at all, and those expressions they started with were just lines they were reading.)
  126. @Lagertha
    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women. There was never a need for a feminist movement in most of the Nordic countries. Yeah, and gag me with a spoon, with those annoying bumper stickers! I actually loathe my generation's boomer feminists...a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.

    I actually loathe my generation’s boomer feminists…a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.

    LOL.

    A few married boomer feminists I know are actually quite frightened at the Genie they let out of the lamp. Kinda amusing, though far too late. Like anything not strictly conservative, it eventually turns into left-liberal-progressivism. And it doesn’t stop.

  127. @Agent J
    Here in the burbs of my big city, there has also been a significant increase in burqas and beards. And it seems to me these are American-born blacks. Islam has been taught in prisons to angry black males for decades now; I fear we're seeing Americans being assimilated into Islam, and that won't end well.

    You see this a lot in Philly. Native black American women wearing hijabs.

  128. @CAL
    It is both. More Muslims and more Muslims willing to shove it in your face. Someone showed how Egyptian Muslims devolved from the 50's to now with regards to Muslim dress. We're witnessing the same thing here.

    They’re just saying: “We’re here. We’re sharia. Get used to it.”

    • Replies: @JZ
    I live in a Chicago western suburb--Naperville-- and hijab wearing women are ubiquitous in my neck of the woods. The transformation from non hijab to hijab women is frankly spectacular the past year. Not sure what to make of it.
  129. @Romanian
    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you're in jeans. I've seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can't do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we're close to our destination. Otherwise, they're just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    No, it is mandatory, it’s just that they don’t enforce it as strictly as before, and Iranian women are constantly pushing the envelope. Each year the hijabs become smaller and more colorful, and more and more hair is visible.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    I stand corrected then. Good for them.
  130. @TheJester
    AndrewR,

    Check your history. Although the face was not covered, it was typical for women to wear full head coverings in the West during the Middle Ages. They looked somewhat like nuns when wearing, in our time, the older religious garb. Full face veils were popular with upper class Western women through the 18th Century to hide facial scars from small pox.

    I traveled extensively in the Middle East from the 1980s through the 1990s. When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s ... fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt.

    Times we forget: In the 1950s, women and girls in the United States were not allowed in Catholic churches without a head covering, even if only a small handkerchief; they also were not allowed to wear pants or expose their arms. The issue was modesty. In some communities in the United States in the 1950s, women were arrested for wearing short-shorts in public. They violated local ordinances.

    That said, there is without question a general race to religious fundamentalism in the Middle East under the influence (or threat) or the Saudi-based Wahhabi religious sect. I doubt if the women I met in Bahrain in the early 1990s could get away with wearing Western fashions in public today, regardless of how modest.

    In the West, all it takes is to look and see that there is a general race to the bottom at the other extreme for women and girls. In the 1980s in California, I once took my son to high school ... only to observe a coed going in the front door dressed in a low hanging halter top, high cut gym shorts, and thongs. (Having enough of social anarchy in California schools, I decided to move the family out of state.) In Virginia where we now live, an article in the Washington Post a few years ago covering social issues regarding dancing and dress in local high schools commented that teachers often called the coed race to the bottom in dress as "the whore wars".

    A question: Given the radical social conservatism among Muslims and the radical social liberalism among Westerners today, is tolerance and diversity that includes both extremes even possible? The cultural, social, and religious values of the one condemn the other.

    “When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s … fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt.”

    Lucy Ricardo, Carmen Miranda, Marilyn Monroe, and June Cleaver weren’t wearing hijabs or burkas in the 1950s. You could always clearly see their hair and faces.

    There was never a time in U.S history where American women were indistinguishable in clothing from Saudi Arabian women and Somali women for example.

    • Replies: @Tom-in-VA
    Re-read what he had to say. Women in the ME until the 1990's wore clothing comparable to what Western women wore in the 1950's. The clothing of the ME women has gotten more conservative in the last 20 years. See below for Cairo University graduates from 1959 and 2012. This is mostly the result of Saudi and Gulf money pushing Wahabbism and Salafism, in my opinion, as well as the intellectual failure of leftist Arab nationalism (Nasserism and Ba'athism), which were staunchly secular movements.

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cairo+univerity+women+graduates&view=detailv2&&id=2E90C5E0F7B37C991904192E10CD0798174F98FC&selectedIndex=3&ccid=Lu5J4tQy&simid=607994411902635216&thid=OIP.M2eee49e2d432f8212a03ae3309cd1454o0


    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cairo+univerity+women+graduates&view=detailv2&&id=6F2979741780030BC24AD71961B46D6AB10009A4&selectedIndex=0&ccid=NUM%2bWJBa&simid=608008585286517659&thid=OIP.M35433e58905a40ed3c42f7bd9b16dc76o0
  131. @biz
    In my experience the worst is Southern Ontario. When I was there the numbers of burquas, niqabs, chadors, and other ridiculous getups was mind-blowing. Then when I visited the prairie part of Canada I was bracing for the same but there was basically none. I guess living in a place with really harsh winters is for the kuffar.

    I was in Calgary this year and saw quite a few. I was also in Vancouver and saw many.

  132. @International Jew
    Target, pfff. You should see Walmart. The employees speak so many different languages (which usually don't include English in anything more than broken scraps), I wonder how they can even work together effectively.

    One of the most “amusing” things I’ve seen recently was a group of Desi girls trying to walk tepidly past a yoof blaring rap from his parked car in the Walmart parking lot, that level of vibrancy is really a national treasure.

  133. @Romanian
    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you're in jeans. I've seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can't do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we're close to our destination. Otherwise, they're just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    “I’ve seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. ”

    That’s a lovely description. I agree there is something quite lovely about the Iranian loose and light head-scarf style.

  134. @Anonymous

    According to Qutb, people “danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire.” 7
     
    Why are Baptists against premarital sex?
    Because it might lead to dancing.

    Correction: Why don’t Baptists have sex standing up? Because it might lead to dancing. “Presbyterian” may be substituted for “Baptist.”

  135. @peterike

    Hindu ladies on the street in Chicago in saris are exotic, colorful, and diverse

     

    Sez that guy. I find Hindu ladies in saris to be nauseating.

    I’ll take the Indian ladies over the Muzzies. More friendly, more willing to interact

  136. @L Woods
    Yeah. This habit of using female immodesty and promiscuity as a cultural litmus test is pretty ridiculous coming from the right.

    “Yeah. This habit of using female immodesty and promiscuity as a cultural litmus test is pretty ridiculous coming from the right.”

    It’s not ridiculous coming from the Right. Republican women don’t dress anything like Muslim women. If they did none of us would know that Ann Coulter and Laura Ingraham for example are blondes. We wouldn’t know that Dana Loesch and Andrea Tantaros are brunettes. You never see the hair color of a Muslim woman because it’s always covered in public.

  137. OT, but it looks like Trump, in his latest speech, is performing a most excellent judo move on Hillary and the left:

    Trump’s campaign aides said the new ideological test for admission to the United States would vet applicants for their stance on issues like religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights. The government would use questionnaires, social media, interviews with friends and family or other means to determine if applicants support American values like tolerance and pluralism.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/15/trump-foreign-policy-speech/

    What are they going to say? That it’s an outrage that we might insist on such values in immigrants? If they say, on the other hand, that it’s a good idea, how will many of the Dreamers and especially the Muslims ever get past this hurdle?

    It catches them right in the middle of their own contradictions. Rock and a hard place.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    This is a stupid idea. It's too complex to fit in a headline and will never get fair coverage in the press. If implemented, Muslims would just lie.
    , @AnotherDad

    OT, but it looks like Trump, in his latest speech, is performing a most excellent judo move on Hillary and the left:

    Trump’s campaign aides said the new ideological test for admission to the United States would vet applicants for their stance on issues like religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights.
     

     
    No Candid it's more stupidity and confusion from Trump--who needs *clarity*.

    For starters LBGTQRSTUV ... whatever is not any sort of "American value". It damn sure isn't any value i grew up with. I have what i'd call the normal healthy "disgust" reaction. But nonetheless I'd wish the fags well ... except, Big Homo is a solid member in good standing of leftist bully boy assholes and their war against normal. Their "tolerance" certainly doesn't extend to leaving Christian bakers and wedding photographers and caterers alone. This idea that America==loving gays is appalling. For one, i'll be damn happy when we figure out this germ (Cochran) or fetal brain development issue ... and kill this crap off. Good riddance.

    Actual core American values are "liberty"--our natural rights the Declaration asserts. And limited, republican government with balance of powers and federalism to prevent tyranny.


    Rather than have this contentious and nonsensical argument that America requires respecting homosexuality--dubious, stupid and not likely to motivate large numbers of conservatives to vote for him--Trump needs to be making clear, simple arguments that reinforce and explain what people already feel--that importing Muslims is a bad idea.

    And it's easy:
    1) There is no right to immigration. There is a right to emmigration--to leave your country. But there is no right to demand some other country take you in.
    2) America belongs to Americans. America does not need *any immigrants* and America certainly has no business taking in any immigrants whose presence is not a net benefit to *Americans*.
    3) Muslims all fail the this test in #2. America is a nice place because it is part of Western\Christian civilization. It is prosperous and free because white Westerners made it so. Islam is a distinctly different civilization and one that has been hostile to and attacking and fighting the West for 1300 years. It has very different notions about ... everything. Even outside the West, Muslims create contention wherever they rub shoulders with people of other civilizations. But the West and Islam are a particularly bad mix--oil and water. So the best policy is just separation.

    Muslims leave their own nations--which are many--and demand to come here and enjoy the prosperity and freedom built by white Westerners, while explicitly rejecting the norms, values and culture of white Western civilization that made America great. No thanks.


    Trump needs to stop making small tedious arguments--and worse having his petty feuds--and paint in big bold letters why the establishment narrative is utter nonsense (that is making like worse). This isn't exactly hard to do. The American people know they are getting screwed, they just lack the vocabulary--have been stripped of the vocabulary--to assert the truth: America belongs to Americans and should be run for their benefit.
  138. @iSteveFan
    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam's, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I'd never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.

    Of course, here in Texas, and elsewhere in the South, there was a foreign army that invaded and conquered us.

    • Replies: @Nico

    Of course, here in Texas, and elsewhere in the South, there was a foreign army that invaded and conquered us.
     
    True in one sense but more relevant when pointing out the idiocy of right-wingers embracing the "Party of Lincoln" mantra than for any useful political or identitarian template in the face of the problems confronting all of America, Dixie, the North and the West included.
  139. @Romanian
    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you're in jeans. I've seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can't do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we're close to our destination. Otherwise, they're just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    I had a friend who was an engineer for Babcock & Wilcox building power gen/de-salination plants in Saudi Arabia during the ’80s. He marveled at the hypocrisy, After take-off, the pilot would announce leaving Saudi airspace, and all the traditional Saudi garb would come off, and the drinks cart would come out from locked storage. With the reverse occurring on return flights.

    • Replies: @yowza

    I had a friend who was an engineer for Babcock & Wilcox building power gen/de-salination plants in Saudi Arabia during the ’80s.
     
    One fellow who worked there told me the problem with the OPEC states culturally is they cannot seem to maintain infrastructure, and if it wasn't farmed to western European nations, those countries would go dark, one by one, because they collectively have a massive blind spot when it comes to required maintenance on their power grids etc.
    He said he serviced electrical transformers that hadn't been touched in 10 years, which in sand-blasted countries, is extremely problematic.
  140. @Almost Missouri
    Not Milton Friedman's.

    Such black-clad "Muslimas" as exist on Chicago's South Side are primarily there due to Farrakhan's Nation of Islam Maryam mosque on South Stony Island and 73rd. In other words, it is primarily American blacks absimilating (to use Derb's expression). There are also immigrant Muslims, but they don't necessarily gravitate to Farrakhan's mosque. Perhaps a few do, but I have posted here before about how America's Nation of Islam similarity to actual Islam from Mecca and Medina is largely coincidental. That there is some advantage in making common front creates occasional cooperation, however. It may also be that Farrakhan, who is no dummy, is gradually adapting his Nation of Islam to be more like the authentic strain from the East, so the final chapter of this has not been written. Farrakhan's Nation of Islam has been a work in progress throughout his life, claims to immutable law of Muhammad notwithstanding. Farrakhan's followers are not theologians, they are in it for the advantages it confers, so they don't mind. (Wikipedia says Farrakhan is now incorporating Dianetics into NoI!)

    Farrakhan is pretty old, so when he goes, I would not be at all surprised if his heir makes NoI much more orthodox in deference to Saudi funding and influence. Already compared to the 1970's one can discern more orthodox terminology in the NoI pronouncements, so the direction is established. The speed may increase.

    I read that Louis Farrakhan’s father was Portuguese. That would explain why he has a Mulatto phenotype. He doesn’t look like he came straight out of The Congo.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    He's from Boston and there's a large Potuguese community in Eastern Massachusetts.
  141. @TheJester
    AndrewR,

    Check your history. Although the face was not covered, it was typical for women to wear full head coverings in the West during the Middle Ages. They looked somewhat like nuns when wearing, in our time, the older religious garb. Full face veils were popular with upper class Western women through the 18th Century to hide facial scars from small pox.

    I traveled extensively in the Middle East from the 1980s through the 1990s. When in Bahrain in the early 1990s, the upper class women reminded me of women in the United States in the 1950s ... fashionable but modest. Same for Coptic Christian women in Egypt.

    Times we forget: In the 1950s, women and girls in the United States were not allowed in Catholic churches without a head covering, even if only a small handkerchief; they also were not allowed to wear pants or expose their arms. The issue was modesty. In some communities in the United States in the 1950s, women were arrested for wearing short-shorts in public. They violated local ordinances.

    That said, there is without question a general race to religious fundamentalism in the Middle East under the influence (or threat) or the Saudi-based Wahhabi religious sect. I doubt if the women I met in Bahrain in the early 1990s could get away with wearing Western fashions in public today, regardless of how modest.

    In the West, all it takes is to look and see that there is a general race to the bottom at the other extreme for women and girls. In the 1980s in California, I once took my son to high school ... only to observe a coed going in the front door dressed in a low hanging halter top, high cut gym shorts, and thongs. (Having enough of social anarchy in California schools, I decided to move the family out of state.) In Virginia where we now live, an article in the Washington Post a few years ago covering social issues regarding dancing and dress in local high schools commented that teachers often called the coed race to the bottom in dress as "the whore wars".

    A question: Given the radical social conservatism among Muslims and the radical social liberalism among Westerners today, is tolerance and diversity that includes both extremes even possible? The cultural, social, and religious values of the one condemn the other.

    Interesting question at the end, STS. But perhaps the comment above by leftist Tiny Duck offers a clue to an answer. In defending the dress codes of Muslim women as freely chosen (pro-choice?), he goes a step further by calling this a “positive development” that he wishes “all women” would follow.

    It occurs to me that many leftists, especially the “elite” variety, have become fed-up with the slatternly results of sexual liberation. Sexual libertinism served its purpose for them by eroding traditional social norms, and setting the stage for abortion, divorce, etc. But they no more wish to see their own daughters in immodest public displays than do their “enemies” on the Right.

    What Left-elites CANNOT do is call for a return to the modesty of earlier American eras: this would be seen (rightly) as a vindication of that earlier tradition, Christian morality, and the Right in general. Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time.

    The Left’s opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in “Submission.” But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "The Left’s opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in “Submission.” But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think."

    Muslim women living in Western countries who wear hijabs and burkas are now labeled as progressive feminists by the Left because in their eyes these Muslim women are defying the authority of the White Western Christian male patriarchy.

    , @Jefferson
    "The Left’s opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in “Submission.” But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.”

    Muslim women living in Western countries who wear hijabs and burkas are now labeled as progressive feminists by the Left because in their eyes these Muslim women are defying the authority of the White Western Christian male patriarchy.

    I am sure a lot of old school Atheist feminists from the 1960s Woodstock generation of sex, drugs, and rock n'roll are rolling their eyes at the thought of Muslim women dressed like potato sacks being labeled as progressive feminists by today's mainstream media.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time."
     
    This is the most intriguing interpretation of this conundrum I have yet read.
  142. “Now I live in my native Los Angeles, which, for better or worse, doesn’t attract many women who want to cover up their entire bodies.”

    That’s a good thing. I like the Los Angeles of Randy Newman where you can ride down Imperial highway with a big nasty sexy woman at your side, while cranking up The Beach Boys.

    I don’t want Los Angeles to turn into Yemen.

  143. This is a very interesting thread.

    I remember back before 9/11, GW Bush was promoting a kind of pan-monotheistic political alliance. Like Hispanics, Muslims were supposed to be “natural Republicans”.

    I don’t know if the Muslim immigration after 9/11 was due to this idea living on in the shadows, Saudi influence, or native “anti-racism”.

    Regardless, it’s a shame.

  144. @quamuri
    The big increase in (non-black) Muslims in Chicago is due partly to numbers and partly to mores, I would say. The reason I say so:

    1. A decade ago, the absolute numbers of Muslims, at ANY level of cultural assimilation/non-assimilation, in Chicago was very, very low. So I assume that what we are seeing now is either more Muslim immigrants, or a previous generation of Muslim immigrants growing exponentially by importing wives and inflicting Sharia on their now-adult children, or Muslims from elsewhere in the US congregating in a few cities. (Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I'm less sure). Demography has to be part of the explanation.

    2. A decade ago, there was a very rare begging... ruse? stratagem? technique? where a woman would go out in a full burqa on the Magnificent Mile, with a baby and a sign claiming that she was a good Muslim and needed help. (Sometimes her husband would lurk nearby.) A decade ago this was a fairly rare thing and I think there was only one woman (person?) doing it. Now, you can see multiple people engaging in Muslim-style begging in the Loop/River North area each day. What that says to me is that whatever cultural feedback led Muslims to avoid overt Muslim-style begging a decade ago has collapsed/transformed to the point that many more people think it makes sense. Mentally I'm modeling Muslim-style begging as the kind of behavior you see at the extreme right-tail of the "unassimilated" normal curve, so if an extreme behavior has become seen as acceptable, that implies that many less extreme behaviors are now seen as much more acceptable as well.

    So, my vote is for some of each.

    >Hyde Park

    I have spent time in Chicago's Hyde Park intermittently over many years and I would say there were very few a decade ago, and still very few today. You're more likely to see NOI women (who wear a scarf around their heads, a la Milan) rather than a true hijab.

    Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I’m less sure

    I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many.

    The other thing I have noticed, they are much more willing to wrap up the girls at a younger and younger age. Used to be 11, 12 or so…. now very small girl children are all wrapped up. 5, 6 or so. I mean full covering, more than the hijab and just the middle of the face exposed. Often all in black, even at a young age.

    I read that SFUSD, just two weeks after San Bernardino, had a Monday set aside for “Hug a Muslim Day”. In the schools. Uneffingbelievable.

    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    hug a muslim day is funny, it will be the worst day of the year for the muslim women, because they hate getting touched by men, especially infidels.
    , @Jefferson
    "I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many."

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.
  145. @candid_observer
    OT, but it looks like Trump, in his latest speech, is performing a most excellent judo move on Hillary and the left:

    Trump’s campaign aides said the new ideological test for admission to the United States would vet applicants for their stance on issues like religious freedom, gender equality and gay rights. The government would use questionnaires, social media, interviews with friends and family or other means to determine if applicants support American values like tolerance and pluralism.
     
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/15/trump-foreign-policy-speech/

    What are they going to say? That it's an outrage that we might insist on such values in immigrants? If they say, on the other hand, that it's a good idea, how will many of the Dreamers and especially the Muslims ever get past this hurdle?

    It catches them right in the middle of their own contradictions. Rock and a hard place.

    This is a stupid idea. It’s too complex to fit in a headline and will never get fair coverage in the press. If implemented, Muslims would just lie.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem "complex". Immigrants don't get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.

    The details of how it's implemented can be worked out later.

    Look, Hillary and Obama has said that they are vetting every single one of the 10s of thousands of "refugees" for terrorism. How is what Trump is proposing harder to achieve than that would be?

    It's actually amusing to see the contortions the left is already going through to dismiss this idea. Oh it can't be done! It would require Congress to pass legislation! (As if any number of proposals Presidential candidates make don't also require legislation).

    Here's the point, sputter, and general flailing about of the WAPo on this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/08/15/donald-trumps-crazy-ideas-about-immigration-just-got-even-crazier/

    Look, even if all the proposal amounts to is a filling out of a survey of family and friends, it can be made feasible, even if not 100% effective because of potential lying.

    But here's the thing: Hillary and the left simply cannot allow any such proposal to go forward. They know that Muslim activists will never abide it. They cannot contradict those activists, because that is the progressive religion.

    The proposal puts the basic "intersectionality" contradiction of the left and Hillary on Muslims in full public display. That is the real point of the proposal, from a political point of view.

    I'll love to see how Hillary tries to squirm out of this. That's where debates are really, really handy -- to make simple logical points that are slum dunk wins.

    Milo has something to say about this:

    http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/08/15/republicans-just-overtook-dems-gay-rights/

    , @Jack Hanson
    Well we should probably just give up on having a nation because its too complex.

    No wonder 60% of the comments on this blog are "waaaaaah. I might have to fight for my nation. I would rather just post pithy comments in between throwing a $10 Steve's way".
  146. Might be worth reiterating the old point that the hijab/burka and female modesty has its origins in tribal/clan societies where blood was everything and the fear of one’s females being tainted by outsiders was primal.

    The need to be sure of one’s own blood and the lack of trust in everyone else is the flip-side of the extraordinary hubris and hypocrisy of MENA folk towards outsiders. Islam of course builds on this and reinforces it.

    So yes: more hijab = more clan-type distrust and more sharp-elbows clearing space for the enlightened ones.

  147. @Romanian
    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you're in jeans. I've seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can't do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we're close to our destination. Otherwise, they're just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    Iran Shia Islam is known for its libertine, party-hearty and not particularly pious youth. In their mind, the Islamic Republic is an historical accident, an anomaly, a cross-confessional quirk just waiting to be banished.

  148. @ben tillman

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.
     
    Of course, here in Texas, and elsewhere in the South, there was a foreign army that invaded and conquered us.

    Of course, here in Texas, and elsewhere in the South, there was a foreign army that invaded and conquered us.

    True in one sense but more relevant when pointing out the idiocy of right-wingers embracing the “Party of Lincoln” mantra than for any useful political or identitarian template in the face of the problems confronting all of America, Dixie, the North and the West included.

  149. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I just saw the American Olympic fencing medalist. She was talking about how the hajab is ‘liberating’ … since it eliminates body issues. I could barely watch it. Offensive on multiple levels.

    Any second wave feminist would have a fit … or should. Its a symbol of patriarchy and required in countries like Saudi Arabia, where women aren’t permitted to drive a car.

    I was informed that any anti Islam comments are EXTREMELY politically correct among younger, educated college and recently graduated elites. And …. ‘calling out’ … is also hugely popular …. virtue signaling. Its not like younger, American born female muslims actually understand that it symbolizes oppression.

    But also, women feel oppressed by body image. Check out this book. https://www.amazon.com/Women-Clothes-Sheila-Heti/dp/0399166564 They are forever traumatized by themselves. When you consider high fashion is the creation of gay males … WTF? Just wear shapeless garments that hide cellulite, that inevitable extra 10 pounds, or guys staring at their big tits (a lot of women find this annoying). And unlike a hideous tattoo, you can always freshen up your look.

    As far as them really getting traction, does anyone really want to do all that prayer and abstinence? The West has sex, drugs, and rock and roll. And good luck with ‘hijab as gang colors’ in Chicago. Not many ethnic groups that I wouldn’t prefer to blacks. But seriously …. do people really LIKE religious fundamentalism? I mean in contrast to a more relaxed, lazy secularism? The Kardashians seem like the secular American archetypical family. The women have a vaguely unidentifiable ethnic look. The opposite of Paris Hilton, for example. They are opportunistic and are up for marrying any alpha male with money — pro athlete or rap singer. And if/when they lose their money or status, on to the next. In fact — while the Kennedy’s were and are hell on women, they seem to be hell on men. Bruce was just identifying with his oppressors.

    When the Kardashians start wearing hajabs, we are fucked. Not holding my breath.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    the Kardashians are Armenian (oldest Christian country in the world) so yeah, never gonna happen. Kim was just in Armenia. Armenians are not Arabs (duh) and, if they do emigrate to the USA, they have a lot more money and tend to move closer to where the other American Armenians live in CA, NJ, NYC. Armenians are cool with the Iranians, but NOT with the Azerbaijanis.
  150. An iSteve-ish article:

    Truth in stereotypes
    Social scientists dismiss them, but rather than being universally inaccurate, stereotypes are often grounded in reality
    by Lee Jussim

    https://aeon.co/essays/truth-lies-and-stereotypes-when-scientists-ignore-evidence

  151. OT, but it looks like Trump, in his latest speech, is performing a most excellent judo move on Hillary and the left

    Trump train gotta get to meme-ing.

    Drudge’s “American Merkel” is nice.

    This is pretty funny, btw:

  152. @L Woods
    Yeah. This habit of using female immodesty and promiscuity as a cultural litmus test is pretty ridiculous coming from the right.

    Nonsense. The “right” has a concept of “modesty” that covers a wide range of styles well between the extremes of clothing-so-tight-it-delineates-genitalia and we-will-kill-or-rape-you-if-you-show-any-skin-at-all

  153. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Is the increase in hijabs in Chicago during the Presidency of Barack Hussein Obama more due to immigration or due to Muslims already here de-assimilating into Mecca-style apparel?

    And which is less worse?

    I don’t know about Chicago but all the places I do know it’s both – once immigration creates a local tipping point in numbers then the peer pressure to conform to Arab standards outweighs the peer pressure to adopt the (ex) local standards and earlier generations de-assimilate.

    Hard to say which is worse as it depends a lot on status – dumb people imported to work as cheap labor might feel their new conditions are an improvement at first. However their kids might feel they are at the bottom because of their race / religion and not because they’re dumb.

    Both high status and low status kids might develop jihadist beliefs for ideological reasons but the dumb ones have that extra crime-first-then-jihad route as well.

    (Something similar would probably have happened with southern and eastern Europeans without the 1924 halt on immigration – although the gap wouldn’t have been so extreme.)

    • Replies: @jill
    The tipping point is described by Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

    http://islamthreat.com/word/Islam_Peter_Hammond.pdf
  154. @AndrewR
    There was never a time when "all" "western" women covered even some of their hair, let alone all of it.

    You might look at these images and revise your assertion.

    • Replies: @Progressive Matricist
    Peasant women did not wear those things.
  155. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Pseudonymic Handle
    This is a phenomenon that happens in some muslim countries as well, as more muslims adopt wahhabist customs imported from Saudi Arabia.
    The first time I was in Turkey you could recognize the iranian and arab tourists because they were the only ones wearing hijabs and burkinis. The last time I was there there were lots of women wearing this stuff, even in upscale Istanbul neighbourhoods. This is more surprising because traditionally turkish women wore colorful shalwar pants not those black trash bags.
    Even more depressing is to go to Hyde Park and see countless women in black burqas looking, indeed, like they are claiming the turf, a turf where modernity was born.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_salvar

    This is a phenomenon that happens in some muslim countries as well, as more muslims adopt wahhabist customs imported from Saudi Arabia.

    Yes – a *huge* part of this has been the influence of Saudi Arabia funding wahabi mosques all over the world.

    The more a desert is involved in a religion the harsher it will be.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted

    The more a desert is involved in a religion the harsher it will be.
     
    Well that explains the Aztecs. Maybe a pyramid topped with an altar should be set up in Times Square. Any volunteers for the obsidian knife detail?
  156. @Massimo Heitor
    In Austin, TX, I see more hijabs than cowboy hats. Five years ago I don't think I'd ever seen a hjiab in Austin, TX. Now, they are quite common.

    Southern whites have been successfully pressured to shrink their symbols of culture and pride. I've seen many statues and schools dedicated to the Confederacy removed and renamed. Muslims are encouraged to be louder about their culture and pride.

    Cowboy hats are a Texas symbol not a southern symbol. And last time I was in Texas (a few months ago) I saw plenty of guys in cowboy hats, mostly old Mexican men.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Cowboy hats are a Texas symbol not a southern symbol."

    I saw some men in Oklahoma City wearing cowboy hats when I had a layover flight at Will Rogers World Airport.
    , @Forbes
    I'd have said cowboy hats are a relic of cowboys--all over western rural areas where ranching occurs, e.g. Colorado, Wyoming, Montana. Definitely not a Southern thing.
  157. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    You can’t tell me this is anything even remotely like the hideous Saracen do-ups creeping like dry rot across Europe and America nowadays.

    • Replies: @Josh
    http://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-people/medieval-women/photo-r-m-n-r-g-ojeda/
    This is the traditional headdress of a typical European woman.
  158. @peterike

    Hindu ladies on the street in Chicago in saris are exotic, colorful, and diverse

     

    Sez that guy. I find Hindu ladies in saris to be nauseating.

    Yes, nauseating.

  159. @Anonymous
    Billionaire [Jewish] real estate executive, 56, 'divorces wife of 15 years an starts dating [big-boobed Pakistani] 22-year-old Harvard student'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3740712/Billionaire-real-estate-executive-56-divorces-wife-15-years-date-22-year-old-Harvard-student.html

    If the Mail couldn’t find any pix of the “busty Pakistani”, I doubt it happened.

  160. @Lagertha
    "Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women."

    Exactly. Wearing Hijabs/Burqas/Niqabs is diametrically opposed to the idea of gender equality; women's advancement; women's rights. Ugh, headscarves make me feel sick every time I see them...and it makes me feel that the person wearing it is just a pathetic loser submitting to parochial patriarchy.

    Note to chauvinists and weak women: God doesn't care what you wear.

    Do you feel the same way about Mother Teresa?

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    She seemed invisible - was a very dedicated nun who was fine with living in squalid conditions in India...so simple clothes/head covering were practical. I've always been baffled with nuns...but, since they sacrifice their lives for good deeds, live modestly, ask for no welfare, produce no children...what's not to like/respect?
  161. @peterike

    Hindu ladies on the street in Chicago in saris are exotic, colorful, and diverse

     

    Sez that guy. I find Hindu ladies in saris to be nauseating.

    I agree. Older Indian ladies in particular look repulsive in saris. It’s also their own way of claiming turf. You’ll notice once there are enough of them around.

  162. @Kylie
    "I like Hijab’s and Burqa’s though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims...."

    That's what oceans are for.

    That’s what oceans are for.

    Or sod.

  163. @Lagertha
    "Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women."

    Exactly. Wearing Hijabs/Burqas/Niqabs is diametrically opposed to the idea of gender equality; women's advancement; women's rights. Ugh, headscarves make me feel sick every time I see them...and it makes me feel that the person wearing it is just a pathetic loser submitting to parochial patriarchy.

    Note to chauvinists and weak women: God doesn't care what you wear.

    I’d love for all people to abandon Abrahamic religions, but as a White American I don’t really care much what they wear in their own countries, and I recognize the HBD element (high status of women is constant in Indo-Aryan cultures). If anything it might be good for them to wear niqabs here to reinforce their alienness.

  164. @Anonymous
    Billionaire [Jewish] real estate executive, 56, 'divorces wife of 15 years an starts dating [big-boobed Pakistani] 22-year-old Harvard student'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3740712/Billionaire-real-estate-executive-56-divorces-wife-15-years-date-22-year-old-Harvard-student.html

    There is some serious grade inflation going on if her B cup qualifies as [big-boobed]

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    You do realize that's a picture of the wife, not the girlfriend? (Pro tip ; Pakistanis aren't blonde)
  165. @yowza
    I dropped in to my local L.A. Target about 9:30 pm the other night, and it was depressing. I saw a decent number of women in Hijab's. I don't recall seeing them there before. Lots of folks certainly from the middle-east.

    Some were apparently armenian. They were those fat, "Ralph Kramden" mean-looking guys. LOTS of central americans ladies, and they weren't very pleasant.

    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, "excuse me, can I get through?" I didn't know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me. Her little girl was laughing with glee that her mother had "out-smarted" me, taking the open place while I had to wait. The little girl kept looking back at me, the mother did not. I didn't bother with them. I was in no hurry.

    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn't hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    One shitty-looking apparent Armenian was shopping around the store with a very animated pit bull puppy in his shopping basket. All the employee's were hispanic, and nobody told him to get the dog out of the cart, much less the store. I've never seen a person shopping at a department store with a pit bull jumping around in the basket.

    Maybe that's the bookmark of what was somehow depressing to me. It was like a theme of our future: nothing but self-involved, third world bullshit.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock's, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    What the Sam Fuck has happened to us?

    We stopped having kids.

  166. “And which is less worse?”

    De-assimilation, obviously: A smaller number of more readily identifiable aliens.

  167. OT: These “onesies” slip by too easily… the police caught up to the cop killer in Eastman Georgia. He had fled to Nassau Co Florida. Royheem Delshawn Deeds. Catch the second pic of him.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3741294/Authorities-say-man-accused-killing-Georgia-cop-arrested.html

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    What's your point?
  168. @Almost Missouri
    Not Milton Friedman's.

    Such black-clad "Muslimas" as exist on Chicago's South Side are primarily there due to Farrakhan's Nation of Islam Maryam mosque on South Stony Island and 73rd. In other words, it is primarily American blacks absimilating (to use Derb's expression). There are also immigrant Muslims, but they don't necessarily gravitate to Farrakhan's mosque. Perhaps a few do, but I have posted here before about how America's Nation of Islam similarity to actual Islam from Mecca and Medina is largely coincidental. That there is some advantage in making common front creates occasional cooperation, however. It may also be that Farrakhan, who is no dummy, is gradually adapting his Nation of Islam to be more like the authentic strain from the East, so the final chapter of this has not been written. Farrakhan's Nation of Islam has been a work in progress throughout his life, claims to immutable law of Muhammad notwithstanding. Farrakhan's followers are not theologians, they are in it for the advantages it confers, so they don't mind. (Wikipedia says Farrakhan is now incorporating Dianetics into NoI!)

    Farrakhan is pretty old, so when he goes, I would not be at all surprised if his heir makes NoI much more orthodox in deference to Saudi funding and influence. Already compared to the 1970's one can discern more orthodox terminology in the NoI pronouncements, so the direction is established. The speed may increase.

    NOI are a drop in the bucket – they don’t number more than a few tens of thousands. Why people pay attention to them is beyond me – nobody among the normative Muslims listens to them – though I’ll cop to buying some of their delicious bean pies. The transition to Sunni Islam already occurred shortly after the demise of Elijah Muhammad under his son, the late Warith Deen Muhammad. I used to frequent many African-American mosques in LA during the late 90’s – I can assure you they are quite Sunni (they tend toward the Salafi/Wahhabi leaning, but I have seen a resurgence of more Orthodox Sunni as they discover that it was their original West-African flavor) with a local flair of African-American culture.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    "I used to frequent many African-American mosques in LA during the late 90′s..."

    Really? Seriously?

    As a believer? As a journalist? Or what?

    Sounds interesting. Tell us more.
  169. The vast majority of Indian immigrant women do not look anything like those high caste broads but rather like this:

    • Replies: @Marcus
    Indian-Americans are the wealthiest ethnic group now, I doubt most of them were beggars or snake charmers back home.
  170. Anyone who treats a commandment to kill, convert or tax me as the word of god does not belong in my country. I don’t care how it’s rectified.

    • Agree: Forbes
  171. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    People tend to forget one of the reasons medieval women might wear a head covering is that in the days before cars and carriages, you needed something to keep sun, snow, rain, wind, and dirt off your head while you traveled on horseback or walked along a dirt road. Travel was more unpleasant in that era, and covering your head in this manner had nothing to do with modesty. It was just practical. It also doesn’t seem to occur to people that you might want to wear head coverings indoors because staying warm in winter in medieval times was a big, important problem. Pick a cold winter day, turn off your furnace, and then try to heat your entire house from your fireplace, and you’re get a clue. Caps and hats of all sorts were practical items back then.

  172. @JLoHo
    De-assimilation.

    My girlfriend went from 'Oh the Koran doesn't require a hijab' to wearing one step away from the Burqa.

    I like Hijab's and Burqa's though.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them (White men will marry anything if not taught correctly...and then find themselves oddly miserable years down the road...har har har)

    It also encourages white women who fall in love with Muslims to switch to the other side...which hopefully angers White Men thus making political action to stop Muslim immigration more permissible.

    As long as interracial marriage acts as a 'safety valve' (like mexican immigration acts as a safety valve for the elites) things will only go from bad to worse for people who consciously decide to protect their heritage.

    Keeps a nice separation between whites and Muslims and discourages white men from marrying them

    Yet you’re dating one?

  173. @Alfa158
    I think that was Derb who published photos of the Cairo University graduating class from the 50's onward. The early classes had lots of women and they were bare-headed. As time went on the proportion of women decreased, and all of the ones now left were covered.

    google images of
    “afghan women 1970’s”

  174. @Lagertha
    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women. There was never a need for a feminist movement in most of the Nordic countries. Yeah, and gag me with a spoon, with those annoying bumper stickers! I actually loathe my generation's boomer feminists...a tiresome pathetic bunch who will die alone.

    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women.

    I would steer them toward Korean women out of that bunch. They tend to be good Christians. Why not Eastern European women? They are still sensible and feminine.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    well, I'm Finnish (with some ancient Swedish ancestors) but you're right, many amazing and gorgeous, very intelligent, multilingual, accomplished women (yet still understand family getogethers are sacred - I need to get several loyal daughter-in-laws :)! ) I know here in the states are Polish, Croatian, Czech...so, yeah. Love Prague!
  175. @Lagertha
    "Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women."

    Exactly. Wearing Hijabs/Burqas/Niqabs is diametrically opposed to the idea of gender equality; women's advancement; women's rights. Ugh, headscarves make me feel sick every time I see them...and it makes me feel that the person wearing it is just a pathetic loser submitting to parochial patriarchy.

    Note to chauvinists and weak women: God doesn't care what you wear.

    God doesn’t care what you wear.

    If a girl can’t party dress so God ogles her and shouts “Hubba! Hubba! Now that’s why I created the universe!” where’s the fun?

  176. The first time I remember seeing women in hijabs in America was in the Detroit airport in 1995. I’m pretty sure those were African American women.

    In the late ’90s, I traveled to Northern California and the Pacific Northwest a lot, and in the first couple years of this century, I traveled all around the continental US for work. I don’t recall seeing many hijabs anywhere. Now every time I go to Costco I see them.

  177. @Romanian
    Hijab is not mandatory in Iran. At least not in the big cities. What is mandatory is covering the hair and the nape of your neck (but not necessarily all of the hair) with a scarf like Brigitte Bardot in those French movies and having a longer garment that covers your ass if you're in jeans. I've seen quite a lot of girls that were as coquettish as any in the West, with make-up and nails done, as well as colorful clothing. Their hair covering was hanging on to the top of their hairdos by the force of static, ready to fall off. What you can't do is touch the girls publicly. I got dirty looks from a policeman for hurrying after a Romanian colleague of mine and grabbing her shoulders to turn her the other way, back when I did not have my Muslim world game on. Of course, you see all kinds of garments, including the full face and no eyes one (abaya?).

    Also, leaving for another country, you see this incredible transformation. The moment the plane lifts off, the women immediately discard the head coverings and whatever modest shirt they wore in favor of very Western clothing. When coming to Iran, they start to change into modest attire as soon as the crew announce that we're close to our destination. Otherwise, they're just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    >>Otherwise, they’re just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    On average, Iranian women are quite good looking.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    I'm a bit biased in favor of porcelain skin. It might be a sort of anti-Gypsy sorting mechanism. I especially detest the tanning craze, which is also very unhealthy.

    I will admit that they have an easy sort of exoticism, enough to intrigue but not enough to repel. Kind of like the difference between liking young Halle Berry or Alicia Keys and liking Serena Williams.

    Of course, caste matters. The society is very stratified by social custom, which is why it has so many high achievers, despite not being that great overall. The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe. I've even seen blue eyes. They're mostly the ones you interact with at higher levels. Plenty of brown masses within the cities, though. However, it's the Azeri plurality that takes the cake in the looks department. This is my experience.

    I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian. It's not hard to do, since I also grow a beard for street cred whenever I go to the area. One guy thought I was my minder's cousin.
  178. @Anon
    The vast majority of Indian immigrant women do not look anything like those high caste broads but rather like this: http://angelasbangalore.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/angela-carson-bangalore-expat-blog-working-with-indians-white-lady-woman-wearing-saree-sari.jpg

    Indian-Americans are the wealthiest ethnic group now, I doubt most of them were beggars or snake charmers back home.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Indian-Americans are the wealthiest ethnic group now, I doubt most of them were beggars or snake charmers back home.
     
    Surely, Jews remain the wealthiest ethnic group. Don't confuse reported income with wealth.
  179. Mormon Cuck Evan McMullin was on Fox News today. When asked how he would deal with the Milwaukee riots, he responded by saying we have to admit Blacks face institutional racism that Whites will never experience. Than he went on to say that Donald Trump divides Americans by race. But he doesn’t say Hildabeast also divides Americans by race. He never bashed Hildabeast once. He concentrated 100 percent of his hatred on The Donald. He also said we need to increase the number of Syrian refugees and need to legalize all of the illegals in this country.

    The conspiracy theorist in me believes Evan McMullin is a George Soros plant.

    What type of Conservative voters is Evan McMullin trying to win when he makes excuses for dysfunctional Negro behavior, wants to import more Muslims, and refuses to bash Hildabeast?

    He sounds more like a Social Justice Warrior who is doing an extremely lousy job of trying to masquerade as a Conservative.

    I would vote for Jill Stein before I would vote for Evan McMullin. At least Jill Stein is upfront and honest to the American people about being a Social Justice Warrior. She doesn’t pretend to be Right of center like the snake oil salesman Even McMullin.

    Better to be rulled by an honest progressive than a lying progressive. Evan McMullin is a typical lying politician. He would fit right at home in Washington.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    Thanks for your outstanding report.
  180. @Talha
    NOI are a drop in the bucket - they don't number more than a few tens of thousands. Why people pay attention to them is beyond me - nobody among the normative Muslims listens to them - though I'll cop to buying some of their delicious bean pies. The transition to Sunni Islam already occurred shortly after the demise of Elijah Muhammad under his son, the late Warith Deen Muhammad. I used to frequent many African-American mosques in LA during the late 90's - I can assure you they are quite Sunni (they tend toward the Salafi/Wahhabi leaning, but I have seen a resurgence of more Orthodox Sunni as they discover that it was their original West-African flavor) with a local flair of African-American culture.

    Peace.

    “I used to frequent many African-American mosques in LA during the late 90′s…”

    Really? Seriously?

    As a believer? As a journalist? Or what?

    Sounds interesting. Tell us more.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey vinteuil,

    Yes, just as a Muslim, though I did write one article for a campus paper about bridging the gaps between the immigrant and African-American communities based on my experience. My experience in the area spanned; 1) volunteer work (http://www.ummaclinic.org/), 2) delivering a Muslim student-produced campus paper to the various mosques in the South Central area (I knew the best route by heart from Masjid Felix Bilal to Masjid Bilal Ibn Rabah to Masjid Salaam, etc.), 3) procuring niche products (the African American Muslims had cornered the market on scented oils) and 4) even learning Arabic (my teacher was a brilliant autodidact - the late Ustadh [Teacher] Jamal - who was an African American who knew 7 languages [including Farsi. Arabic and conversational Urdu - I kid you not] and was working on teaching himself Portuguese when I left the area) - he was definitely Linh Dinh interview material.

    Anyway, good times in the 90's. Since I moved into the Chicago area, I have only ventured into the South side a few times to attend a program or a mosque fundraiser, I feel more apprehensive about venturing into the area probably because I'm older now and have a family. The Chicago Muslim community is split into 4 general regions (with some overlap or course); Indo-Pakistani/Bangladeshi, African American, Arab, and Bosnian/Albanian).

    Peace.
  181. @European in America
    No, it is mandatory, it's just that they don't enforce it as strictly as before, and Iranian women are constantly pushing the envelope. Each year the hijabs become smaller and more colorful, and more and more hair is visible.

    I stand corrected then. Good for them.

  182. I live in the northern suburbs of Denver, CO, right smack in the middle of the Front Range Urban Corridor, total population nearly 5 million. I almost never see anyone, of either sex, of whatever cultural or ethnic background, wearing traditional Muslim garb. The few women I see wearing head scarves look rather more South Asian than Middle Eastern. In short, I don’t know what the hell everyone else is talking about up-thread. Supposedly there are a large number of Muslim immigrants recently imported into the country, but you don’t see any around here.

    You do see a lot of Mexicans and Central Americans; and while I find many things about them culturally objectionable, their clothing isn’t one of them. They assimilate to American fashion even before they learn to speak English.

  183. @Percy Gryce
    You might look at these images and revise your assertion.

    Peasant women did not wear those things.

    • Replies: @Josh
    http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/
    They wore these things. M
  184. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @iSteveFan
    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam's, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I'd never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.

    I was just at a Whole Foods. I’m standing in line around all this wimpy betas with there masculine wives at the checkout. Some with their obnoxious progeny (“Jacob, will you help your father out with those [recyclable] bags?”). I’m standing looking at all the crap at the checkout. Sustainable earth this, sustainable planet that. And I almost had a Michael Douglas in Falling Down meltdown. I felt like calming stating, “I love all this sustainable planet bullshit you people arrange your life around. Me? I’m just looking for sustainable civilization. A civilization free from the ghoulish figures in burkas I had to pass on my way walking in here. Or the beta “mammals” (MAMILs, middle aged men in Lycra) I was stuck behind between lights while driving here. Sustainable civilization is what I’d like. I’m not quixotic, I’d just like to live in an America which is half as nice as the America my parents grew up in. Is that to much to ask for?”

    But I kept my mouth shut, smiled, bought my energy gel packs and went on my way. Pearls before swine.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Don't go postal and give them the Great White Defendant people have been looking for since they discovered angry White males.
  185. @JerseyGuy
    Steve,
    Just took a look at fertility rates for Muslim countries (this is what I do after the wife and daughter go to bed). A lot of pundits have discussed the falling Muslim fertility rates and that there is nothing to see here. However, a lot of countries are still quite high and seem to have stabilized.

    Afghanistan - 5.33
    Yemen - 3.91
    Iraq - 4.12
    Somalia - 5.99
    Jordan - 3.17

    Have we reached a bottom to the decline in fertility rates? Has the religious component in Muslim countries reached a critical mass? Also, we also keep hearing that Iran has a cratering population. However, its TFR is 1.83. Will is start picking up again at some point now that it has been pretty well Islamized? I honestly don't know. Curious to hear from others who have studied this in depth.

    Then there are the black Sahel countries like Mali on the southern edge of the Sahara. They have the highest TFRs in the world mostly.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Niger has 7, even though its wet areas are what Nigeria considers dry areas :)))

    The population grew like 6 times in the last 40 years. And, when asked, women say they'd have more children if they had more money. I guess polygamy really is key - make them compete against each other to please you.

    Ultimately, the issue is not that everyone will eventually be under replacement (though I do not believe that). It's that the last to reach replacement will have a huge advantage over the others and moral claim over resources and lebensraum. Think of the overpopulation in their land... Wasn't there an article that said migrants should settle the empty spaces of Italy? I still giggle when thinking about that pearl of wisdom. "Screw the archeological dig, they need the stones for housing"

  186. The Muslim population in Chicago has exploded in the past 15 years. They’re replacing white working-and-middle class residents in Bungalow Belt neighborhoods.

  187. @ChrisZ
    Interesting question at the end, STS. But perhaps the comment above by leftist Tiny Duck offers a clue to an answer. In defending the dress codes of Muslim women as freely chosen (pro-choice?), he goes a step further by calling this a "positive development" that he wishes "all women" would follow.

    It occurs to me that many leftists, especially the "elite" variety, have become fed-up with the slatternly results of sexual liberation. Sexual libertinism served its purpose for them by eroding traditional social norms, and setting the stage for abortion, divorce, etc. But they no more wish to see their own daughters in immodest public displays than do their "enemies" on the Right.

    What Left-elites CANNOT do is call for a return to the modesty of earlier American eras: this would be seen (rightly) as a vindication of that earlier tradition, Christian morality, and the Right in general. Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however--especially one opposed to the West -- offers a way of endorsing modesty while being "transgressive" at the same time.

    The Left's opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in "Submission." But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.

    “The Left’s opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in “Submission.” But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.”

    Muslim women living in Western countries who wear hijabs and burkas are now labeled as progressive feminists by the Left because in their eyes these Muslim women are defying the authority of the White Western Christian male patriarchy.

  188. @iSteveFan
    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam's, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn't see it with my own eyes, I'd never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.

    My Spanish is not so great but these days I find it’s more productive to “press 2 for Spanish” because there, the person you get actually knows Spanish, where the “English” operators often know next to no English. (It can take a little while to realize this though. They start with fluent renditions of “Thank you for waiting” or “I’ll be happy to help you”. But as you try to explain your problem, you realize they aren’t following you at all, and those expressions they started with were just lines they were reading.)

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "My Spanish is not so great but these days I find it’s more productive to “press 2 for Spanish” because there, the person you get actually knows Spanish, where the “English” operators often know next to no English. (It can take a little while to realize this though. They start with fluent renditions of “Thank you for waiting” or “I’ll be happy to help you”. But as you try to explain your problem, you realize they aren’t following you at all, and those expressions they started with were just lines they were reading.)"

    Whenever I talk to an English operator regarding my smartphone plan or my credit/debit card for example, most of them sound like they are either from India or The Philippines. And the few times they are American they usually sound Black. I rarely get a White American on the other line.
  189. @Anonymous
    Collectively, the vibe was not friendly in the store. It wasn’t hostile. It was just these little families from all over the world, in their own little universe floating around. It felt like I was at some international weigh station. Like an internment area on a border. Nothing American about it, to me. Very strange. Very stark.

    This describes what I experienced at a couple of rest stops while driving along the N.J. Turnpike a few summers ago. Very few white people and many unfriendly-looking foreign-type people. I have since decided to avoid the N.J. Turnpike.

    I remember as a kid, tagging along with my mom to Bullock’s, or the May Company. Just wandering around the store. All the friendly faces. The ladies at the counter smiling down at me. Always such a pleasant experience.

    I remember this, too, and I don't understand why the elites in the West are willing to give this up. They can hide themselves away in gated communities or wherever sonewhat, but even they have to wander out to more public areas, which have become much less pleasant. Even driving on the roads can be a less nice (and sometimes less safe) experience now. And there is also the issue of what appears to be a huge increase in litter along American roads. Has anyone else noticed more litter these days?

    I remember when the Iranians start to show up in Bullocks and May Company stores in Sherman Oaks around 1974. I sort of imagined they were French. It turned out they were Friends of the Shah who were skimming off the 1973 rise in oil prices back home and feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Wow. I guess the Iranians in L.A. at that time weren't living a typical America lifestyle, although by the sounds of things many of them still don't (based on some of what you've written about them and the Bravo show "Shahs of Sunset"). It's funny that you thought they might be French.
    , @Lot

    feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.
     
    This is why West Coast and NYC real estate, while expensive now, should keep going up. The Chinese economy is huge. US GDP is 18 trillion, China's is 11, and growing much faster. The rich there, in the world's 2nd biggest economy, overwhelmingly would like to live in a big US city over China's big cities.

    The rising generation in China that has money knows the crowds and heavy pollution are unhealthy and unpleasant, and the USA is a much safer and secure place. The prudent thing to do is not buy Chinese real estate, which is even more expensive than US real estate, nor make investments in the country's corrupt stock and bond markets. The banks too are corrupt and keeping money there is an invite to being shaken down by the local communist party's thugs. That money is going to just keep on flowing into US real estate markets.
    , @epebble
    Many are also extremely intelligent (over-represented in Medicine, Science, Engineering etc.). They are not Arabs but Zoroastrians who were forcibly converted to Islam. Without that (the Albatross of Islam), they might have become as successful as the Jews (Iran is Farsi for Aryan).
  190. @Daniel H
    >>Otherwise, they’re just swarthier looking Westerners, flirts and all.

    On average, Iranian women are quite good looking.

    I’m a bit biased in favor of porcelain skin. It might be a sort of anti-Gypsy sorting mechanism. I especially detest the tanning craze, which is also very unhealthy.

    I will admit that they have an easy sort of exoticism, enough to intrigue but not enough to repel. Kind of like the difference between liking young Halle Berry or Alicia Keys and liking Serena Williams.

    Of course, caste matters. The society is very stratified by social custom, which is why it has so many high achievers, despite not being that great overall. The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe. I’ve even seen blue eyes. They’re mostly the ones you interact with at higher levels. Plenty of brown masses within the cities, though. However, it’s the Azeri plurality that takes the cake in the looks department. This is my experience.

    I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian. It’s not hard to do, since I also grow a beard for street cred whenever I go to the area. One guy thought I was my minder’s cousin.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian"

    You must not be blond or light brown haired than. If blond haired Gary Busey for example had traveled to Iran, he would never be mistaken for an Iranian.

    Are you one of those Mediterranean looking Romanians with black hair or dark brown hair? Do you have the same hair color as Spanish actor Javier Bardem?

    , @Jefferson
    "The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe."

    But most Iranians don't look European at all. Most of them look like lighter skin Bollywood Indian elites.

    I have read about lighter skin Indians in California who have been mistaken for Iranians/Persians.

    A lot of people who are half White and half Indian also have an Iranian Persian or Armenian look like Charli XCX and Norah Jones for example.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    "One guy thought I was my minder’s cousin."
    Hah. Friend of my kid went walkabout in unadvisable destinations last year. Got chased by Kazakh and again by Uzbek imbeciles (I suppose we'd call them "winos" here), yelling "Jihadi! Jihadi!" because he'd tried to grow his (post-graduate) beard out en route. For the record, he's half Scottish (ex-Mandate police), and half Palestinian Christian. The saner locals (ex-Soviet oldsters) pulled them off and, er, calmed them down, each time.
    Some kids are just born dumb. And lucky.
  191. Steve you need to clarify what you mean by hijabs, maybe your friend is confusing them with something else?

    Hijabs are mostly just head scarves, ranging from simple solid tones to fashionable silk florals.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=hijabs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy2JmgzsTOAhUFbSYKHZYcDFwQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=955

    Usually not accompanied with anything specifically, though the women in this image result are more modest than average. Most American muslim women wear this with standard blouse/jeans.

    Niqabs/burkas are the hostile ones where you’re wearing a complete black sack.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Niqab is just the face veil. Burka (Afghani) or abaya (Arab) is the body covering.
  192. @Anonymous
    I've seen older white ladies wearing hijabs at my local health food store. They're the progressive old white woman types who you'd see 15 years ago driving new VW Bugs with Namaste and Coexist bumper stickers. I don't know if they converted Islam from yoga and Buddhism or they are just donning the hijab out of solidarity.

    Relatedly, white women are becoming the enemy of the white man. No wonder Derb and other white guys are going for the yellow woman. When's the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she's not?

    Feminism is a shit test that Western men failed. No surprise that Western women are going for men who believe in themselves. How do you expect others to believe in you if you don’t believe in yourself?

  193. @Anonymous

    Yeah, every time I come back from the post office, bank, Sam’s, Target, etc., I get angry at the elites who betrayed us. If I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I’d never believe such a transformation could have taken place without a foreign army invading and conquering us.
     
    I was just at a Whole Foods. I'm standing in line around all this wimpy betas with there masculine wives at the checkout. Some with their obnoxious progeny ("Jacob, will you help your father out with those [recyclable] bags?"). I'm standing looking at all the crap at the checkout. Sustainable earth this, sustainable planet that. And I almost had a Michael Douglas in Falling Down meltdown. I felt like calming stating, "I love all this sustainable planet bullshit you people arrange your life around. Me? I'm just looking for sustainable civilization. A civilization free from the ghoulish figures in burkas I had to pass on my way walking in here. Or the beta "mammals" (MAMILs, middle aged men in Lycra) I was stuck behind between lights while driving here. Sustainable civilization is what I'd like. I'm not quixotic, I'd just like to live in an America which is half as nice as the America my parents grew up in. Is that to much to ask for?"

    But I kept my mouth shut, smiled, bought my energy gel packs and went on my way. Pearls before swine.

    Don’t go postal and give them the Great White Defendant people have been looking for since they discovered angry White males.

  194. @ChrisZ
    Interesting question at the end, STS. But perhaps the comment above by leftist Tiny Duck offers a clue to an answer. In defending the dress codes of Muslim women as freely chosen (pro-choice?), he goes a step further by calling this a "positive development" that he wishes "all women" would follow.

    It occurs to me that many leftists, especially the "elite" variety, have become fed-up with the slatternly results of sexual liberation. Sexual libertinism served its purpose for them by eroding traditional social norms, and setting the stage for abortion, divorce, etc. But they no more wish to see their own daughters in immodest public displays than do their "enemies" on the Right.

    What Left-elites CANNOT do is call for a return to the modesty of earlier American eras: this would be seen (rightly) as a vindication of that earlier tradition, Christian morality, and the Right in general. Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however--especially one opposed to the West -- offers a way of endorsing modesty while being "transgressive" at the same time.

    The Left's opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in "Submission." But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.

    “The Left’s opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in “Submission.” But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.”

    Muslim women living in Western countries who wear hijabs and burkas are now labeled as progressive feminists by the Left because in their eyes these Muslim women are defying the authority of the White Western Christian male patriarchy.

    I am sure a lot of old school Atheist feminists from the 1960s Woodstock generation of sex, drugs, and rock n’roll are rolling their eyes at the thought of Muslim women dressed like potato sacks being labeled as progressive feminists by today’s mainstream media.

  195. @Chrisnonymous
    This is a stupid idea. It's too complex to fit in a headline and will never get fair coverage in the press. If implemented, Muslims would just lie.

    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem “complex”. Immigrants don’t get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.

    The details of how it’s implemented can be worked out later.

    Look, Hillary and Obama has said that they are vetting every single one of the 10s of thousands of “refugees” for terrorism. How is what Trump is proposing harder to achieve than that would be?

    It’s actually amusing to see the contortions the left is already going through to dismiss this idea. Oh it can’t be done! It would require Congress to pass legislation! (As if any number of proposals Presidential candidates make don’t also require legislation).

    Here’s the point, sputter, and general flailing about of the WAPo on this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/08/15/donald-trumps-crazy-ideas-about-immigration-just-got-even-crazier/

    Look, even if all the proposal amounts to is a filling out of a survey of family and friends, it can be made feasible, even if not 100% effective because of potential lying.

    But here’s the thing: Hillary and the left simply cannot allow any such proposal to go forward. They know that Muslim activists will never abide it. They cannot contradict those activists, because that is the progressive religion.

    The proposal puts the basic “intersectionality” contradiction of the left and Hillary on Muslims in full public display. That is the real point of the proposal, from a political point of view.

    I’ll love to see how Hillary tries to squirm out of this. That’s where debates are really, really handy — to make simple logical points that are slum dunk wins.

    Milo has something to say about this:

    http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/08/15/republicans-just-overtook-dems-gay-rights/

    • Replies: @L Woods
    "Our values?" Speak for yourself. I want no part of that culture sewage.
    , @candid_observer
    According to Steven Miller, Trump's campaign adviser, who nicely presses the case, Hillary plans to admit 620K refugees:

    https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/765349216877150208
    , @ben tillman

    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem “complex”. Immigrants don’t get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.
     
    No, they don't, and it's nuts to ASK the government to test us for leftist ideological purity.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem “complex”.
     
    I didn't say it's too complex to understand but too complex for a headline. "Muslim ban" is easy; "American-values vetting" doesn't work. Come to think of it, getting "Muslim ban" out of the headlines might be a good argument for it. But so far it looks like coverage is just "new Trump, crazier than old Trump".
  196. @Hidden Cat

    Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I’m less sure
     
    I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many.

    The other thing I have noticed, they are much more willing to wrap up the girls at a younger and younger age. Used to be 11, 12 or so.... now very small girl children are all wrapped up. 5, 6 or so. I mean full covering, more than the hijab and just the middle of the face exposed. Often all in black, even at a young age.

    I read that SFUSD, just two weeks after San Bernardino, had a Monday set aside for "Hug a Muslim Day". In the schools. Uneffingbelievable.

    hug a muslim day is funny, it will be the worst day of the year for the muslim women, because they hate getting touched by men, especially infidels.

  197. @Steve Sailer
    Then there are the black Sahel countries like Mali on the southern edge of the Sahara. They have the highest TFRs in the world mostly.

    Niger has 7, even though its wet areas are what Nigeria considers dry areas :)))

    The population grew like 6 times in the last 40 years. And, when asked, women say they’d have more children if they had more money. I guess polygamy really is key – make them compete against each other to please you.

    Ultimately, the issue is not that everyone will eventually be under replacement (though I do not believe that). It’s that the last to reach replacement will have a huge advantage over the others and moral claim over resources and lebensraum. Think of the overpopulation in their land… Wasn’t there an article that said migrants should settle the empty spaces of Italy? I still giggle when thinking about that pearl of wisdom. “Screw the archeological dig, they need the stones for housing”

    • Replies: @Clyde
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-demographic-theory-of-war/article/15288
    The above was written in 2007. Just think of how it applies to immigration invasions and the feminist elites (male and female) who allow and encourage such invasions.

    Must be that stuff in plastic water bottles and food containers.
    These Popular Plastic Bottles May Be Messing With Your Hormones
    A new study finds that many BPA-free brands advertised as safe may be anything but.
    Mariah Blake Jun. 16, 2014
    http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/06/bpa-free-plastics-tritan-nalgene-dangerous
    , @Expletive Deleted
    "Wasn’t there an article that said migrants should settle the empty spaces of Italy? I still giggle when thinking about that pearl of wisdom."
    They recently seem to have annoyed the Corsicans again, of all people. Not the Dutch, nor the Spanish or English. The frickin' Corsicans. I guess they must be as dumb as people reckon after all. This will not end well.
    http://www.france24.com/en/20160815-corsica-tense-burkini-beach-brawl-france-muslim-islam
    , @RonaldB
    This may have been your point, but why worry about increasing your population? Having open spaces, wildlife, and lots of land is part of the quality of life. You're not going to out-produce the southern peoples, and why bother trying, as long as you maintain strong borders?

    There is a problem in maintaining the quality of your population in the absence of environmental pressures for quality. In a welfare state with all the environmental challenges negated by technology, and with the pressures for virtue negated by civil service and large government, the virtues we value will deteriorate just through mutations.

    I feel confident that with science, we can maintain the quality of our population, maintain borders, and perhaps even refrain from devastating those countries with populations and needs different from our own.
  198. @Romanian
    I'm a bit biased in favor of porcelain skin. It might be a sort of anti-Gypsy sorting mechanism. I especially detest the tanning craze, which is also very unhealthy.

    I will admit that they have an easy sort of exoticism, enough to intrigue but not enough to repel. Kind of like the difference between liking young Halle Berry or Alicia Keys and liking Serena Williams.

    Of course, caste matters. The society is very stratified by social custom, which is why it has so many high achievers, despite not being that great overall. The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe. I've even seen blue eyes. They're mostly the ones you interact with at higher levels. Plenty of brown masses within the cities, though. However, it's the Azeri plurality that takes the cake in the looks department. This is my experience.

    I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian. It's not hard to do, since I also grow a beard for street cred whenever I go to the area. One guy thought I was my minder's cousin.

    “I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian”

    You must not be blond or light brown haired than. If blond haired Gary Busey for example had traveled to Iran, he would never be mistaken for an Iranian.

    Are you one of those Mediterranean looking Romanians with black hair or dark brown hair? Do you have the same hair color as Spanish actor Javier Bardem?

    • Replies: @Romanian
    I have chestnut hair and hazel eyes, like most of my countrymen. We get blondes and blue or green eyes, but just a decent sized minority. Enough for me to date exclusively. We have more than Bulgaria, but fewer than Hungary. A lot of them can have a Mediterranean look, but it's hard to tell with all the damned tanning during the summer and also the abominable tanning salon trend. I'm personally very stale pale male by nature and am not a beachgoer so I stay like that during the summer as well. The guy who played the Winter Soldier in the Marvel movies is ethnically Romanian. I have his skin tone and general look. But you can find all kinds in Iran, as well, so you're not out of place unless you look like Busey or have the ruddy Anglo Saxon complexion, which they can never have. Also, a lot of the Lebanese and Arabs around here are basically swarthier Romanians in looks, so you can't pick them out like you would in Sweden unless they have the telltale sunken eye look, from a lack of fat around the eyes. That's something I don't see in Romanians. Being conventionally strongjawed handsome also helps with the likelihood of being identified as Iranian. They go a lot for this type. One girl I talked to in a museum specifically commented on my White Iranian look. I had an Iranian colleague in university whom you could have sworn he looked like Oded Fehr in Deuce Bigelow, male gigolo, wavy hair and all.
  199. @Bill B.
    You are the ghost of Sayyid Qutb at a Greeley church dance and I claim my two camel ride vouchers:

    If Sayyid Qutb of Cairo, ideological beacon of Al Qaeda and a martyr of the Muslim Brotherhood, had had his way, Christmas undoubtedly would be banned in the worldwide sharia paradise he sought. He probably would have banned Baby, It's Cold Outside, too, considering his outrage at the immoral behavior he claimed to have seen accompany the actual playing of the song, chronicled in his 1951 article for Egypt's Al-Risala magazine, "The America I Have Seen: In the Scale of Human Values."2

    Described as a quiet and intelligent man,3 Qutb in 1949 was a middle-aged college student living in Greeley, Colorado. It was a town as quiet as its unique visitor, one that "proudly maintained in the late 1940's the moral rigor, temperance and civic-mindedness that were the hallmarks of its founding fathers."4 Alcohol sales within the city limits were prohibited,5 and Qutb estimated that at least 20 churches served Greeley's population of just over 20,000.6 One evening he attended a church service which was followed by a dance. And what was one of the musical selections the minister tossed onto the record player? Baby, It's Cold Outside.

    According to Qutb, people "danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire." 7
     
    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/baby_its_cold_outside_but_its.html#ixzz4HPwCUHIn
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    What really creeped out Qutb about 1949 White America was not sex–it was attitudes about death. He saw ER residents making macabre jokes about trauma patients. He saw widows talking calmly discussing proceed payouts with life insurance agents 48 hours after their husband’s funeral. Etc. He thought it was ghastly.

    Being a closeted homosexual himself, public displays of sexuality were very secondary on Qutb’s list of grievances.

  200. @The Z Blog
    I fondly recall walking with my mother as she was covered from head to toe in a burlap sack...

    This is complete nonsense. Sure, women have worn hats and various sorts of head dressings in the West. The West has never covered women for the sake of modesty. Even in Eastern Europe where old women still wear head scarfs, it is not out of modesty.

    Ridiculous. You know those old nun’s habits? That’s just how women dressed in the Middle Ages.

  201. @Romanian
    Niger has 7, even though its wet areas are what Nigeria considers dry areas :)))

    The population grew like 6 times in the last 40 years. And, when asked, women say they'd have more children if they had more money. I guess polygamy really is key - make them compete against each other to please you.

    Ultimately, the issue is not that everyone will eventually be under replacement (though I do not believe that). It's that the last to reach replacement will have a huge advantage over the others and moral claim over resources and lebensraum. Think of the overpopulation in their land... Wasn't there an article that said migrants should settle the empty spaces of Italy? I still giggle when thinking about that pearl of wisdom. "Screw the archeological dig, they need the stones for housing"

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-demographic-theory-of-war/article/15288
    The above was written in 2007. Just think of how it applies to immigration invasions and the feminist elites (male and female) who allow and encourage such invasions.

    Must be that stuff in plastic water bottles and food containers.
    These Popular Plastic Bottles May Be Messing With Your Hormones
    A new study finds that many BPA-free brands advertised as safe may be anything but.
    Mariah Blake Jun. 16, 2014
    http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/06/bpa-free-plastics-tritan-nalgene-dangerous

  202. @Anonymous

    I predict my sons will marry Japanese, Korean, Icelandic, or Finnish women.
     
    I would steer them toward Korean women out of that bunch. They tend to be good Christians. Why not Eastern European women? They are still sensible and feminine.

    well, I’m Finnish (with some ancient Swedish ancestors) but you’re right, many amazing and gorgeous, very intelligent, multilingual, accomplished women (yet still understand family getogethers are sacred – I need to get several loyal daughter-in-laws :)! ) I know here in the states are Polish, Croatian, Czech…so, yeah. Love Prague!

  203. @John Derbyshire
    They're just saying: "We're here. We're sharia. Get used to it."

    I live in a Chicago western suburb–Naperville– and hijab wearing women are ubiquitous in my neck of the woods. The transformation from non hijab to hijab women is frankly spectacular the past year. Not sure what to make of it.

    • Replies: @eah
    Not sure what to make of it.

    I see.

    What's your gut reaction? Do you like seeing it? Does it look like America to you? Speaking of democracy, is this change something you voted for, or would vote for? Assuming you are white: do you think this change represents something positive for the country? Or do get the feeling we're creating and leaving future generations of Whites a lot of problems to deal with, a country that is more troubled than the one we inherited, one that they would not have chosen either (assuming you answered 'No' to my question re democracy above)?
    , @Expletive Deleted
    It's Mau-Mau, in a different wig. Flak-catchers, stand to.
  204. @S. Anonyia
    Cowboy hats are a Texas symbol not a southern symbol. And last time I was in Texas (a few months ago) I saw plenty of guys in cowboy hats, mostly old Mexican men.

    “Cowboy hats are a Texas symbol not a southern symbol.”

    I saw some men in Oklahoma City wearing cowboy hats when I had a layover flight at Will Rogers World Airport.

    • Replies: @Karl
    > Oklahoma

    you mis-spelled Texas du Norte
  205. @GSR
    Take it from me, a life long resident of Dearborn, Michigan. Its both. Increased numbers due to immigration and Moooslims already here, feeling empowered and proud of their Moooooslim heritage.

    Islam is a problem. Period. It does not belong in the West.

    a life long resident of Dearborn, Michigan

    So how is it like and how has it changed? If you are feeling ambitious, you should write something up longer and perhaps Steve can ask vdare to post it as an anonymous guest column.

  206. @Avenge Harambe
    Yeah, same here in Chicago. You will see a lot of middle easterners at Walmart, it's overwhelming at times. A very third world experience. Add that to the other run of the mill riff-raff, its a very depressing place to shop and best avoided.

    A very third world experience.

    Going to a DMV office in CA has been ‘a very third world experience’ for about forty years — another way to have your own personal ‘third world experience’ is to take a trip outside the US, and upon returning, when going thru passport control take a look at who’s alongside you in the line for ‘US Citizens + Green Card + Immigrant Visa Holders’.

    • Replies: @Lot
    IN 2014 and before, the San Diego DMV office was pretty well run. The wait was about 35 minutes, but you take a number and can go for a half hour walk, then they will be ready for you. No actual standing in line like in some states. You could also schedule online appointments a day or two in advance, though I never needed to do that.

    Once we passed the driver license for illegals law, it quickly went downhill. Since they will not have valid US ids, there is a long process involving foreign documents, us utility bills, and so forth and most by people with weak English. It sucks up so much of their time that wait times are now far longer and appoints require 2+ weeks advance notice.
    , @International Jew

    when going thru passport control take a look at who’s alongside you in the line for ‘US Citizens'
     
    Heh-heh, definitely true in San Fran. It's the people in the foreigners' line — European tourists for the most part — who you'd think are the Americans.
  207. @Percy Gryce
    Do you feel the same way about Mother Teresa?

    She seemed invisible – was a very dedicated nun who was fine with living in squalid conditions in India…so simple clothes/head covering were practical. I’ve always been baffled with nuns…but, since they sacrifice their lives for good deeds, live modestly, ask for no welfare, produce no children…what’s not to like/respect?

  208. @Alden
    Tiny Duck

    Apparently Muslim men are absolutely inflamed when thinking about what lies underneath the coverings. It also facilitates the arranged marriages as the bride and groom can't see how ugly they are before the wedding.
    In fact, to covering thing is a reason why Muslims tend to be ugly. When looks are a factor in reproduction, nice looking people reproduce. When they are covered in trash bags and beards the ugly reproduce and after a few centuries everyone is moderately to very ugly.

    There are a lot of Muslim burka and head veil women in my neighborhood and they all have ugly faces. The little girls wear regular clothes. Everyone I have seen in the past 20 years is ugly, ugly because the parents grandparents and ancestors were ugly.

    Apparently Muslim men are absolutely inflamed when thinking about what lies underneath the coverings. It also facilitates the arranged marriages as the bride and groom can’t see how ugly they are before the wedding.
    In fact, to covering thing is a reason why Muslims tend to be ugly. When looks are a factor in reproduction, nice looking people reproduce. When they are covered in trash bags and beards the ugly reproduce and after a few centuries everyone is moderately to very ugly.

    There are a lot of Muslim burka and head veil women in my neighborhood and they all have ugly faces. The little girls wear regular clothes. Everyone I have seen in the past 20 years is ugly, ugly because the parents grandparents and ancestors were ugly.

    Your very original take. I have not seen anywhere else. Ugly women who are the result of generations of inbreeding love the Islamic evolutionary strategy which elevates them into marriage worthy prospects and makes the Jews with their Kev MacDonald evolutionary strategy look like chumps and pissants. Far as Muslim gals/females/whatever you left out ugly and dull and half witted due to inbreeding.

  209. @27 year old
    It's both.

    The official numbers tell us there have been millions of new muslim arrivals to our country during the Obama years. So there are certainly more of them around.

    I can also think of a lot of reasons why they would be more likely to wear the stuff now:

    1. Most obviously, there is no longer assimilation pressure and at the same time, Saudi Arabia is funding all the mosques, so their preachers are aggressively preaching non-assimilation.

    2. Selection bias. The muslims who wanted to come to America and become more American already came, and now they are reaching further down the chain and getting the ones who want to come to America and keep doing the same shit they've always done but with running water and electricity.

    3. Gang colors. If they really feel they are in a hostile, threatening environment, they wear the stuff they can identify their team mates and help eachother out.

    4. Intimidation of the locals. It's creepy first off and makes people uneasy, and at the second level, many normal Whites figure if you're wearing the trash bag look, you're probably hardcore enough to know someone in ISIS, so they better treat you well. Going further, they have to have noticed by now that higher status whites (SWPLs) will become immediately deferential to them while wearing the garb.

    5. Body armor. Again, they have noticed how things work, and they know that if they are victims of crime while being identifiable, obvious muslims, then it becomes hate crime and a Big Deal.

    6. Technology and communication back with the homeland. If they are talking by cell phone/facebook on a constant basis with their older, traditional relatives, they are being pressured to stay true and keep to the old ways. They also might get a facetime video call at any moment which would expose them if not wearing the stuff.

    7. ISIS shifting the muslim version of the overton window further toward traditionalism, making muslims act more muslim-y

    8. (reaching here) Some worldwide strauss/howe type of -thing- going on in the water, air, and/or global, meta-cultural memeplex that is making everybody want to act more to their type. Young right wing whites are getting more right wing than our parents. Young blacks are getting more blackity-black-black. Young liberal whites are going further toward blue hair SJWism. etc

    Nice work 27 year old. I like the bullets. I tend toward overlength wanting to discuss all (or many) aspects of something. You more or less covered all the bases but kept it short and punchy.

  210. @candid_observer
    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem "complex". Immigrants don't get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.

    The details of how it's implemented can be worked out later.

    Look, Hillary and Obama has said that they are vetting every single one of the 10s of thousands of "refugees" for terrorism. How is what Trump is proposing harder to achieve than that would be?

    It's actually amusing to see the contortions the left is already going through to dismiss this idea. Oh it can't be done! It would require Congress to pass legislation! (As if any number of proposals Presidential candidates make don't also require legislation).

    Here's the point, sputter, and general flailing about of the WAPo on this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/08/15/donald-trumps-crazy-ideas-about-immigration-just-got-even-crazier/

    Look, even if all the proposal amounts to is a filling out of a survey of family and friends, it can be made feasible, even if not 100% effective because of potential lying.

    But here's the thing: Hillary and the left simply cannot allow any such proposal to go forward. They know that Muslim activists will never abide it. They cannot contradict those activists, because that is the progressive religion.

    The proposal puts the basic "intersectionality" contradiction of the left and Hillary on Muslims in full public display. That is the real point of the proposal, from a political point of view.

    I'll love to see how Hillary tries to squirm out of this. That's where debates are really, really handy -- to make simple logical points that are slum dunk wins.

    Milo has something to say about this:

    http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/08/15/republicans-just-overtook-dems-gay-rights/

    “Our values?” Speak for yourself. I want no part of that culture sewage.

  211. @Hidden Cat

    Boston also has vastly more muslims now than it did ten years ago; I want to say the same is true of SF and LA, although there I’m less sure
     
    I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many.

    The other thing I have noticed, they are much more willing to wrap up the girls at a younger and younger age. Used to be 11, 12 or so.... now very small girl children are all wrapped up. 5, 6 or so. I mean full covering, more than the hijab and just the middle of the face exposed. Often all in black, even at a young age.

    I read that SFUSD, just two weeks after San Bernardino, had a Monday set aside for "Hug a Muslim Day". In the schools. Uneffingbelievable.

    “I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many.”

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    • Replies: @eah
    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    It's also where, some years ago, a high school had to cancel its football season -- it had become so heavily Asian -- mostly Chinese -- that there was not enough interest to get a team together -- I remember well how the newspaper story about that did not contain the word "immigration".

    As I recall, the HS was Mission San Jose -- here is a link to their 'Athletics' web page -- nowadays they seem to have given up on football entirely: it is not listed as a Fall sport -- no idea what they do for Homecoming -- I notice badminton is now an intramural sport, however.

    , @Hidden Cat

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.
     
    Wouldn't surprise me.... not sure if it still is but at one point Fremont had the highest Sikh pop. in the US. When the schools try to put in any new policy they don't like the emails flood in, from all along the West coast and from India. We've been invaded, thoroughly.

    A few months ago a Buddhist compound in one of the inneer East Bay cities burned, and affected some surrounding homes not part of their compound.... it was a street of wood framed Victorian, Edwardian smaller homes. The monks had lit one thousand candles and all 4 monks went to bed. Of course camera crews descended and as best I could tell not one of the monks was conversant in ANY language. It all sounded mentally deficient.

    Frankly why on earth are they here? Worse they (the glut of immigrants) are moving into city and town government, often with poor English skills.
  212. @candid_observer
    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem "complex". Immigrants don't get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.

    The details of how it's implemented can be worked out later.

    Look, Hillary and Obama has said that they are vetting every single one of the 10s of thousands of "refugees" for terrorism. How is what Trump is proposing harder to achieve than that would be?

    It's actually amusing to see the contortions the left is already going through to dismiss this idea. Oh it can't be done! It would require Congress to pass legislation! (As if any number of proposals Presidential candidates make don't also require legislation).

    Here's the point, sputter, and general flailing about of the WAPo on this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/08/15/donald-trumps-crazy-ideas-about-immigration-just-got-even-crazier/

    Look, even if all the proposal amounts to is a filling out of a survey of family and friends, it can be made feasible, even if not 100% effective because of potential lying.

    But here's the thing: Hillary and the left simply cannot allow any such proposal to go forward. They know that Muslim activists will never abide it. They cannot contradict those activists, because that is the progressive religion.

    The proposal puts the basic "intersectionality" contradiction of the left and Hillary on Muslims in full public display. That is the real point of the proposal, from a political point of view.

    I'll love to see how Hillary tries to squirm out of this. That's where debates are really, really handy -- to make simple logical points that are slum dunk wins.

    Milo has something to say about this:

    http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/08/15/republicans-just-overtook-dems-gay-rights/

    According to Steven Miller, Trump’s campaign adviser, who nicely presses the case, Hillary plans to admit 620K refugees:

  213. @Jefferson
    "I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian"

    You must not be blond or light brown haired than. If blond haired Gary Busey for example had traveled to Iran, he would never be mistaken for an Iranian.

    Are you one of those Mediterranean looking Romanians with black hair or dark brown hair? Do you have the same hair color as Spanish actor Javier Bardem?

    I have chestnut hair and hazel eyes, like most of my countrymen. We get blondes and blue or green eyes, but just a decent sized minority. Enough for me to date exclusively. We have more than Bulgaria, but fewer than Hungary. A lot of them can have a Mediterranean look, but it’s hard to tell with all the damned tanning during the summer and also the abominable tanning salon trend. I’m personally very stale pale male by nature and am not a beachgoer so I stay like that during the summer as well. The guy who played the Winter Soldier in the Marvel movies is ethnically Romanian. I have his skin tone and general look. But you can find all kinds in Iran, as well, so you’re not out of place unless you look like Busey or have the ruddy Anglo Saxon complexion, which they can never have. Also, a lot of the Lebanese and Arabs around here are basically swarthier Romanians in looks, so you can’t pick them out like you would in Sweden unless they have the telltale sunken eye look, from a lack of fat around the eyes. That’s something I don’t see in Romanians. Being conventionally strongjawed handsome also helps with the likelihood of being identified as Iranian. They go a lot for this type. One girl I talked to in a museum specifically commented on my White Iranian look. I had an Iranian colleague in university whom you could have sworn he looked like Oded Fehr in Deuce Bigelow, male gigolo, wavy hair and all.

  214. @Chrisnonymous
    This is a stupid idea. It's too complex to fit in a headline and will never get fair coverage in the press. If implemented, Muslims would just lie.

    Well we should probably just give up on having a nation because its too complex.

    No wonder 60% of the comments on this blog are “waaaaaah. I might have to fight for my nation. I would rather just post pithy comments in between throwing a $10 Steve’s way”.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    What I disagree with is switching from a ban on immigration from certain places to a ban based on a bureaucrat determining a person's virtue.

    If the switch were going to improve Trump's chances in November, then fine. But they won't. He shouldn't waist time on this since, as I said, because it can't play well in headlines. Events have already borne this out, as headlines have basically been "now Trump is crazier!"
  215. @JZ
    I live in a Chicago western suburb--Naperville-- and hijab wearing women are ubiquitous in my neck of the woods. The transformation from non hijab to hijab women is frankly spectacular the past year. Not sure what to make of it.

    Not sure what to make of it.

    I see.

    What’s your gut reaction? Do you like seeing it? Does it look like America to you? Speaking of democracy, is this change something you voted for, or would vote for? Assuming you are white: do you think this change represents something positive for the country? Or do get the feeling we’re creating and leaving future generations of Whites a lot of problems to deal with, a country that is more troubled than the one we inherited, one that they would not have chosen either (assuming you answered ‘No’ to my question re democracy above)?

  216. @Anon
    I just saw the American Olympic fencing medalist. She was talking about how the hajab is 'liberating' ... since it eliminates body issues. I could barely watch it. Offensive on multiple levels.

    Any second wave feminist would have a fit ... or should. Its a symbol of patriarchy and required in countries like Saudi Arabia, where women aren't permitted to drive a car.

    I was informed that any anti Islam comments are EXTREMELY politically correct among younger, educated college and recently graduated elites. And .... 'calling out' ... is also hugely popular .... virtue signaling. Its not like younger, American born female muslims actually understand that it symbolizes oppression.

    But also, women feel oppressed by body image. Check out this book. https://www.amazon.com/Women-Clothes-Sheila-Heti/dp/0399166564 They are forever traumatized by themselves. When you consider high fashion is the creation of gay males ... WTF? Just wear shapeless garments that hide cellulite, that inevitable extra 10 pounds, or guys staring at their big tits (a lot of women find this annoying). And unlike a hideous tattoo, you can always freshen up your look.

    As far as them really getting traction, does anyone really want to do all that prayer and abstinence? The West has sex, drugs, and rock and roll. And good luck with 'hijab as gang colors' in Chicago. Not many ethnic groups that I wouldn't prefer to blacks. But seriously .... do people really LIKE religious fundamentalism? I mean in contrast to a more relaxed, lazy secularism? The Kardashians seem like the secular American archetypical family. The women have a vaguely unidentifiable ethnic look. The opposite of Paris Hilton, for example. They are opportunistic and are up for marrying any alpha male with money -- pro athlete or rap singer. And if/when they lose their money or status, on to the next. In fact -- while the Kennedy's were and are hell on women, they seem to be hell on men. Bruce was just identifying with his oppressors.

    When the Kardashians start wearing hajabs, we are fucked. Not holding my breath.

    the Kardashians are Armenian (oldest Christian country in the world) so yeah, never gonna happen. Kim was just in Armenia. Armenians are not Arabs (duh) and, if they do emigrate to the USA, they have a lot more money and tend to move closer to where the other American Armenians live in CA, NJ, NYC. Armenians are cool with the Iranians, but NOT with the Azerbaijanis.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Historically, the Kardashians are the abnormal Armenians:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=armenian+dress&espv=2&biw=1536&bih=777&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYx8SDuL3OAhXLOSYKHai5ADMQsAQIGw&dpr=1.25#tbm=isch&q=armenian+traditional+dress&imgrc=_

    Peace.
  217. It is the same thing I and others have observed in the Toronto area in the last 10 years or so. Of all Islamic garb, I would say the niqab has increased at a faster rate than the hijab. Just today I saw three women walking down the street in my suburban city wearing black niqabs. Several years ago I would have been shocked by it, but not anymore. On occasion, I’ve even seen the blue burqa that one often sees in Afghanistan in the east end of Toronto. Nothing says welcome to the third world like the blue burqa does.

  218. @Anonymous
    I've seen older white ladies wearing hijabs at my local health food store. They're the progressive old white woman types who you'd see 15 years ago driving new VW Bugs with Namaste and Coexist bumper stickers. I don't know if they converted Islam from yoga and Buddhism or they are just donning the hijab out of solidarity.

    Relatedly, white women are becoming the enemy of the white man. No wonder Derb and other white guys are going for the yellow woman. When's the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she's not?

    “When’s the last time you saw an Asian woman trying to be something she’s not?”
    All the damn time. Raging SJWs, the lot of them.

  219. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This reminds me of the opposite phenomenon I sometimes experience here in NY and in New England. Sure I see women in burqas a little too often in some areas in and around the big city, but occasionally I do notice some young Arab/Middle Eastern women who are so assimilated I’ve mistaken them for Latinas. Is “assimilated” the right word for this?

    I mean, you see them in the distance in their short skirts, or tight leggings/pants. If they’re very attractive and have a nice figure it can be difficult for a guy like me to look away. As I walk by, I would wrongly assume it’s Spanish they’re speaking for a split second, but then quickly realize it’s Arabic(and possibly Turkish or Farsi)! This doesn’t surprise me as much as it used to, but it’s refreshing to know that not all the woman from that part of the world are covered in hijabs or burqas. I do wonder if any of these women(assuming they’re Muslim) ever revert back to dressing modestly.

  220. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I remember when the Iranians start to show up in Bullocks and May Company stores in Sherman Oaks around 1974. I sort of imagined they were French. It turned out they were Friends of the Shah who were skimming off the 1973 rise in oil prices back home and feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.

    Wow. I guess the Iranians in L.A. at that time weren’t living a typical America lifestyle, although by the sounds of things many of them still don’t (based on some of what you’ve written about them and the Bravo show “Shahs of Sunset”). It’s funny that you thought they might be French.

  221. @Steve Sailer
    I remember when the Iranians start to show up in Bullocks and May Company stores in Sherman Oaks around 1974. I sort of imagined they were French. It turned out they were Friends of the Shah who were skimming off the 1973 rise in oil prices back home and feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.

    feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.

    This is why West Coast and NYC real estate, while expensive now, should keep going up. The Chinese economy is huge. US GDP is 18 trillion, China’s is 11, and growing much faster. The rich there, in the world’s 2nd biggest economy, overwhelmingly would like to live in a big US city over China’s big cities.

    The rising generation in China that has money knows the crowds and heavy pollution are unhealthy and unpleasant, and the USA is a much safer and secure place. The prudent thing to do is not buy Chinese real estate, which is even more expensive than US real estate, nor make investments in the country’s corrupt stock and bond markets. The banks too are corrupt and keeping money there is an invite to being shaken down by the local communist party’s thugs. That money is going to just keep on flowing into US real estate markets.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Go to the Queens crap (county in NYC) blog. Not hard to find. In fact...... http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/
    , @Anonymous
    http://globalnews.ca/news/2804304/vancouvers-real-estate-is-fueled-by-a-money-laundering-bubble-market-analyst/

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vancouver+airport+tops+country+seizures+undeclared+cash/8043419/story.html
  222. @Marcus
    In a way this is a positive development: the more alien and hostile immigrants appear the more likely there will finally be some kind of backlash. We don't want them to assimilate.

    Exactly!

    It promotes a healthy sense of them & us.

  223. @International Jew
    My Spanish is not so great but these days I find it's more productive to "press 2 for Spanish" because there, the person you get actually knows Spanish, where the "English" operators often know next to no English. (It can take a little while to realize this though. They start with fluent renditions of "Thank you for waiting" or "I'll be happy to help you". But as you try to explain your problem, you realize they aren't following you at all, and those expressions they started with were just lines they were reading.)

    “My Spanish is not so great but these days I find it’s more productive to “press 2 for Spanish” because there, the person you get actually knows Spanish, where the “English” operators often know next to no English. (It can take a little while to realize this though. They start with fluent renditions of “Thank you for waiting” or “I’ll be happy to help you”. But as you try to explain your problem, you realize they aren’t following you at all, and those expressions they started with were just lines they were reading.)”

    Whenever I talk to an English operator regarding my smartphone plan or my credit/debit card for example, most of them sound like they are either from India or The Philippines. And the few times they are American they usually sound Black. I rarely get a White American on the other line.

  224. @Josh
    Your point about a hostile foreign populace is taken, but hijabs are really just head coverings that all western women used to wear. I'm sure that genie can't be put back in the bottle, but we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously.

    “we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously”

    Yes, I’m glad someone else sees this. Muslim body coverings are a somewhat more extreme version of the modest dress customs that used to prevail in the West as well. Note that it is not just for women in Islamic countries. Men generally don’t wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either. Indeed, Muslim men should cover their faces too if they are devout, with a beard! So we err when we assume that Muslim dress is purely some kind of sexual supremacy/repression.

    I don’t know why this fact is so underappreciated when it is so obvious. The strange hostility of the the naysayers to your comment seems connected to this modern blind spot as well. Perhaps it is the modern fetish for literal/material interpretation of everything?

    • Replies: @biz

    Men generally don’t wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either.
     
    Men not wearing shorts is not a modesty thing. It isn't even a particularly Muslim thing.

    Most men in third world countries do not wear short pants - especially India, SE Asia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean - for the reason that schoolboys uniforms in those countries do have short pants. It is seen as immature and child-like to wear shorts.
    , @Talha
    On spot! Traditionally, Muslim men covered their whole bodies plus their heads in public - this was near universal. Only Modern/Post-Modern Muslim men have started to bear their arms and heads. In the past, this was considered a sign of such low character that (depending on the society) a bare-headed man's testimony would not be accepted in court.

    It would be great if Western women recaptured their more modest past with a style that is authentically Western in composition. I look at some of the photographs or sketches from the past and I am blown away by how elegant and feminine the dresses are - and they had such unique head dresses/coverings.

    Peace.

  225. @Alden
    Josh,
    Western women haven't worn head veils and wimples (neck coverings) since about 1300. Your statement is idiotic. Get on the Internet or to your nearest public library and check out History of Costume.

    Body, leg and arm coverings are modest. But covering the hair???? Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman. Men may think long or short, curly or straight, and various colors of hair are attractive.

    But no one is sexually turned in by hair. Men are turned on by bodies and faces, not hair so hair covering is not sexual modesty.
    BTW the reason people wore hats scarves veils and other head coverings in the old days was prevention of lice.

    Unlike fleas, lice cannot live more than about 5 or 6 hours without sucking on blood from the scalp. Unlike fleas who can find a seam and get to the body quickly lice cannot borrow through cloth, leather, straw or whatever easily

    Lice cannot climb up braids either which is why girls wore their hair in braids for centuries.

    The hijab burka niqab thing is just a sign of militancy and supremacy

    And again your comment that a hair covering is sexual modesty is ridiculous

    “Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman.”

    Please explain this to the Saudi religious police (mutawaeen) who insist that women cover their hair specifically because of the sexual attractiveness. And I agree with them. Beautiful hair is attractive. And I suspect you (or at least your id) actually agrees too, even if you (ego-you) won’t admit it. Have you dated many bald women in your life?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Women's hair grows longer than men's hair.
    , @Marcus
    Beautiful hair is attractive, but it's far from sexual, try imagining young men (not rapefugees) ogling a woman's hair with a straight face.
  226. @Jefferson
    "I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many."

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    It’s also where, some years ago, a high school had to cancel its football season — it had become so heavily Asian — mostly Chinese — that there was not enough interest to get a team together — I remember well how the newspaper story about that did not contain the word “immigration”.

    As I recall, the HS was Mission San Jose — here is a link to their ‘Athletics’ web page — nowadays they seem to have given up on football entirely: it is not listed as a Fall sport — no idea what they do for Homecoming — I notice badminton is now an intramural sport, however.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "It’s also where, some years ago, a high school had to cancel its football season — it had become so heavily Asian — mostly Chinese — that there was not enough interest to get a team together — I remember well how the newspaper story about that did not contain the word “immigration”."

    Fremont is not as heavily Chinese as Cupertino, Milpitas, and The San Gabriel Valley where the Chinese almost have a monopoly on the Asian demographics.

    A high percentage of the Asians in Fremont are also Pakistanis, Sikhs, and Indians. Fremont is more like London than it is like The San Gabriel Valley. I see a lot of Brown among Fremont Asians, it's not a Yellowtopia.
  227. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    Elvis Costello mentioned London being full of Arabs in 1978.

    Forget Cromwell Paddy. The Declan MacManus phenotype has conquered England. Long live the eyebrow!

    Impressive lyrics and melody shoehorned into a 3 minute pop song.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    In 1980, Hyde Park in London was full of rich Gulf Arabs vacationing.
  228. @Tacitus2016
    Elvis Costello mentioned London being full of Arabs in 1978.

    Forget Cromwell Paddy. The Declan MacManus phenotype has conquered England. Long live the eyebrow!

    Impressive lyrics and melody shoehorned into a 3 minute pop song.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LrjHz5hrupA

    In 1980, Hyde Park in London was full of rich Gulf Arabs vacationing.

    • Replies: @Tacitus2016
    The Daily Mail has a piece every few weeks about vacationing Saudi brats and their gold-plated cars. Came out of a tube station in '91 to walk into an entourage of Saudi tourists with flowing white thawbs. Exotic back then.
  229. @Almost Missouri

    "Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman."
     
    Please explain this to the Saudi religious police (mutawaeen) who insist that women cover their hair specifically because of the sexual attractiveness. And I agree with them. Beautiful hair is attractive. And I suspect you (or at least your id) actually agrees too, even if you (ego-you) won't admit it. Have you dated many bald women in your life?

    Women’s hair grows longer than men’s hair.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Yes, long hair is one of those universal markers of femininity, like breasts and hips, which the mutawaeen also want covered.
  230. @Yak-15
    It's definitely more prevalent in ChIraq, but it's not incredibly common. I believe that many in the Arab diaspora who inhabit my circle of friends still see the hijab as absurd and dated. But those are the same people who associate the hijab with the rabble of the Arab street - the odious working poor. As more of the upper classes adopt the hijab it may come back.

    I do not want to feed the anti-Semite trolls that lurk here, but I have noticed a few more Yarmulkes than in the past.

    I do not want to feed the anti-Semite trolls that lurk here, but I have noticed a few more Yarmulkes than in the past.

    Jewish influence is top-down – financial, political, cultural. Their actual numbers are almost irrelevant. Muslims represent a demographic threat – numbers are everything.

  231. @Beefychops
    Screen Test-

    As fellow life-long resident of L.A. you described exactly my daily experiences. I recall with fondness going shopping at the Del Amo Mall in Torrance and just wandering around with my mom somewhere within earshot. Friendly faces, similar faces, it felt right and like home. None of that today. When I get off the freeway for work in the morning I feel like I've been transported to a foreign land. Signs in Spanish, graffiti everywhere, street peddlers hawking their wares in the middle of lanes.

    I think what hit home most was your comment stating, "...little families from all over the world, in their own little universes floating around." I have had that exact same thought over and over. There is no sense of community that I can discern. It just seems like a mad push to acquire stuff and exist.

    One final comment related to the dog in the basket you mentioned. I live a few blocks from the beach and was chatting with a lifeguard friend a week or two ago down on the sand. We saw a rotund middle-eastern looking lady walking toward the guard tower and as she got closer we noticed that she had a small dog with her. My lifeguard buddy approached her to remind her that dogs aren't allowed on the beach and the local cops would cite her. It turned into a full blown brouhaha with the lady going into a rage. A few moments later my buddy came back over and sighed. He said that the lady was pissed that he didn't know her dog was a certified "help" dog. The lady wasn't blind and this wasn't a full sized dog. It was some little yapper dog that fits in hoity toity people's purses. But it was a service dog and she could do whatever she wanted. Total breakdown of civilization...

    The majority of California’s obnoxious dog owners now call them “service animals.” There is no rule or body to certify the need for one, so people just buy a certificate and shirt for the dog online for $15. If they are ever pushed, they figure they can say they are for “emotional support.”

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I notice business establishments are starting to fight back by allowing only service animals for "leading the visually impaired' or some such wording.

    And yes, all the people I know with "emotional support" animals are exactly the self-righteous, self-absorbed ones who would benefit most from a bit more social conformity and from considering something outside their own enormous sense of entitlement.
  232. @Almost Missouri

    "we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously"
     
    Yes, I'm glad someone else sees this. Muslim body coverings are a somewhat more extreme version of the modest dress customs that used to prevail in the West as well. Note that it is not just for women in Islamic countries. Men generally don't wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either. Indeed, Muslim men should cover their faces too if they are devout, with a beard! So we err when we assume that Muslim dress is purely some kind of sexual supremacy/repression.

    I don't know why this fact is so underappreciated when it is so obvious. The strange hostility of the the naysayers to your comment seems connected to this modern blind spot as well. Perhaps it is the modern fetish for literal/material interpretation of everything?

    Men generally don’t wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either.

    Men not wearing shorts is not a modesty thing. It isn’t even a particularly Muslim thing.

    Most men in third world countries do not wear short pants – especially India, SE Asia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean – for the reason that schoolboys uniforms in those countries do have short pants. It is seen as immature and child-like to wear shorts.

    • Replies: @Matra
    Even in many (most?) parts of Europe you won't see many adults (males in particular) wearing shorts unless they're playing a sport or at a beach resort or something similar.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Uh, yeah, that's kind of the point: attire is a civilizational thing. Discard one, you're endangering the other.
    , @syonredux
    Robert E Howard (the creator of Conan) worked as an assistant for a British geologist who was doing work for various oil companies in Texas in the '20s. Howard was quite shocked by the Brit's fondness for wearing shorts.
  233. @Patrick Harris
    I live in the Philly area and can hardly count the number of hijabs I see in crowded places. Contrary to Steve's friend, though, on an individual level I don't find them especially bothersome or much more alienating than saris (which is not the same thing as saying I don't worry about them collectively).

    No, what really weirds me out are the niqabs.

    They're not common, but they are noticeable: probably at least a dozen times a year I see women in the full-black only-eyes-visible getup, including a neighbor in my suburban apartment complex, and *that* is profoundly alienating. Women's hair, whatever: a few old church ladies still cover that up on Sundays. Nobody who hides their face from you wants to participate in your society as anything other than a consumer or a self-seeking interest group (at best).

    Unlike the hijabi women, the ones I see in niqabs are nearly always black. Moreover, I have heard some of them talk, and they tend to sound like American blacks. Which makes me wonder: are these (previously) culturally assimilated African immigrants gravitating to fundamentalist Islam? Are Black Muslims (in the Farrakhan sense) getting more extreme in their dress codes? Or are a significant number of African Americans becoming Salafists? I'm legitimately curious, although none of the alternatives sound good.

    Short answer: yes. See my reply (36) to Steve above (6).

  234. @Some Economist
    I think it's important to chronicle these seemingly inconsequential, everyday experiences. Others surely have these same impressions of alienation in their own country, but they don't allow themselves to reflect on it--let alone connect it to policy in any conscious way. It's important that these experiences be articulated.

    We need something like Face to Face with Race, but for immigration.
    https://store.amren.com/product/books/face-to-face-with-race/

    On the subject of what's behind the noticeable increase in Muslim dress: Someone I encounter through work started wearing a cap just after the Paris Bataclan massacre last fall. He's under 30 and quite friendly to speak with; I presume he was born in the US. I believe he is aware of his amiability and that others view him positively, so I think his message here is "Hey, I'm a nice guy. Bet you didn't know I'm a Muslim, too! You probably feel pretty bad about the Islamaphobia in your head now..." This is the best case scenario for what looks to be "absimilation". Still, I ultimately can't help but interpret this all as middle finger in my face.

    Though I'm begrudgingly not religious, I'm very tempted to wear a cross pendant in some sort of cultural solidarity, or at the least to ward off snarky cultural-Marxist comments in my presence. I can't be the only one considering this. Just as I'm apparently not the only one who had a chilling experience on a rare but recent trip to a Target.

    Something to keep in the back of your mind if you ever do interviewing or hiring.

    Still, I ultimately can’t help but interpret this all as middle finger in my face.

    Of course it is.

    I’m very tempted to wear a cross pendant in some sort of cultural solidarity, or at the least to ward off snarky cultural-Marxist comments in my presence.

    The best response is to have a big family and donate to Steve and to Trump.

  235. @AndrewR
    The Islamization of the west is all but inevitable. Feminism and the slut singularity are the result of a degenerate civilization, pussified men and unbridled women. The only way to prevent islamization is to put women back in their place. As it cureently stand, women and betas will not even allow us to reduce the rate of the spread of Islam in the US, let alone reverse Islamic gains.

    “women and betas will not even allow us”

    Dude, no offense, but why are you waiting for their permission?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    It will require a coordinated effort.
  236. @Romanian
    I'm a bit biased in favor of porcelain skin. It might be a sort of anti-Gypsy sorting mechanism. I especially detest the tanning craze, which is also very unhealthy.

    I will admit that they have an easy sort of exoticism, enough to intrigue but not enough to repel. Kind of like the difference between liking young Halle Berry or Alicia Keys and liking Serena Williams.

    Of course, caste matters. The society is very stratified by social custom, which is why it has so many high achievers, despite not being that great overall. The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe. I've even seen blue eyes. They're mostly the ones you interact with at higher levels. Plenty of brown masses within the cities, though. However, it's the Azeri plurality that takes the cake in the looks department. This is my experience.

    I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian. It's not hard to do, since I also grow a beard for street cred whenever I go to the area. One guy thought I was my minder's cousin.

    “The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe.”

    But most Iranians don’t look European at all. Most of them look like lighter skin Bollywood Indian elites.

    I have read about lighter skin Indians in California who have been mistaken for Iranians/Persians.

    A lot of people who are half White and half Indian also have an Iranian Persian or Armenian look like Charli XCX and Norah Jones for example.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    That's what I said, too. A minority of them would not look out of place in Europe, but plenty of brown masses in the cities. Google Mohammad Javad Zarif Khonsari, the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Without the typical Iranian diplomat shirt, he would not look out of place teaching in some European University.

    The Shah's second wife, noble born Soraya Esfandiary-Bakhtiari, was also a very European beauty.

  237. @Alden
    That Greeley Co church dance that Syaid Q tai attended was for the married couples club. The index ten touching was done by married couples dancing with each other.

    Foreplay of any kind is considered obscene by strict Muslims Boys are for love women for making babies.

    That’s what makes them alphas.

  238. @vinteuil
    "I used to frequent many African-American mosques in LA during the late 90′s..."

    Really? Seriously?

    As a believer? As a journalist? Or what?

    Sounds interesting. Tell us more.

    Hey vinteuil,

    Yes, just as a Muslim, though I did write one article for a campus paper about bridging the gaps between the immigrant and African-American communities based on my experience. My experience in the area spanned; 1) volunteer work (http://www.ummaclinic.org/), 2) delivering a Muslim student-produced campus paper to the various mosques in the South Central area (I knew the best route by heart from Masjid Felix Bilal to Masjid Bilal Ibn Rabah to Masjid Salaam, etc.), 3) procuring niche products (the African American Muslims had cornered the market on scented oils) and 4) even learning Arabic (my teacher was a brilliant autodidact – the late Ustadh [Teacher] Jamal – who was an African American who knew 7 languages [including Farsi. Arabic and conversational Urdu – I kid you not] and was working on teaching himself Portuguese when I left the area) – he was definitely Linh Dinh interview material.

    Anyway, good times in the 90’s. Since I moved into the Chicago area, I have only ventured into the South side a few times to attend a program or a mosque fundraiser, I feel more apprehensive about venturing into the area probably because I’m older now and have a family. The Chicago Muslim community is split into 4 general regions (with some overlap or course); Indo-Pakistani/Bangladeshi, African American, Arab, and Bosnian/Albanian).

    Peace.

  239. @eah
    A very third world experience.

    Going to a DMV office in CA has been 'a very third world experience' for about forty years -- another way to have your own personal 'third world experience' is to take a trip outside the US, and upon returning, when going thru passport control take a look at who's alongside you in the line for 'US Citizens + Green Card + Immigrant Visa Holders'.

    IN 2014 and before, the San Diego DMV office was pretty well run. The wait was about 35 minutes, but you take a number and can go for a half hour walk, then they will be ready for you. No actual standing in line like in some states. You could also schedule online appointments a day or two in advance, though I never needed to do that.

    Once we passed the driver license for illegals law, it quickly went downhill. Since they will not have valid US ids, there is a long process involving foreign documents, us utility bills, and so forth and most by people with weak English. It sucks up so much of their time that wait times are now far longer and appoints require 2+ weeks advance notice.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "IN 2014 and before, the San Diego DMV office was pretty well run."

    Is San Diego seeing a recent influx of Somalis? When I was in your city last month to attend Comic Con International, I was paired up not once but twice with Somali Uber drivers.
    , @International Jew
    Maybe the ultimate indignity was getting rude treatment from an English-challenged Chinese clerk at my local post office's passport department.
  240. @Lot
    The majority of California's obnoxious dog owners now call them "service animals." There is no rule or body to certify the need for one, so people just buy a certificate and shirt for the dog online for $15. If they are ever pushed, they figure they can say they are for "emotional support."

    I notice business establishments are starting to fight back by allowing only service animals for “leading the visually impaired’ or some such wording.

    And yes, all the people I know with “emotional support” animals are exactly the self-righteous, self-absorbed ones who would benefit most from a bit more social conformity and from considering something outside their own enormous sense of entitlement.

  241. @eah
    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    It's also where, some years ago, a high school had to cancel its football season -- it had become so heavily Asian -- mostly Chinese -- that there was not enough interest to get a team together -- I remember well how the newspaper story about that did not contain the word "immigration".

    As I recall, the HS was Mission San Jose -- here is a link to their 'Athletics' web page -- nowadays they seem to have given up on football entirely: it is not listed as a Fall sport -- no idea what they do for Homecoming -- I notice badminton is now an intramural sport, however.

    “It’s also where, some years ago, a high school had to cancel its football season — it had become so heavily Asian — mostly Chinese — that there was not enough interest to get a team together — I remember well how the newspaper story about that did not contain the word “immigration”.”

    Fremont is not as heavily Chinese as Cupertino, Milpitas, and The San Gabriel Valley where the Chinese almost have a monopoly on the Asian demographics.

    A high percentage of the Asians in Fremont are also Pakistanis, Sikhs, and Indians. Fremont is more like London than it is like The San Gabriel Valley. I see a lot of Brown among Fremont Asians, it’s not a Yellowtopia.

  242. @Jefferson
    "I recently read, and I forget where now, that the San Francisco Bay Area, which is 9 counties iirc and somwhere around 9 million, has an estimated 300 to 500 THOUSAND Muslims. Why the wide range in the estimate, no idea. I have not taken time yet to run it down or find out how many mosques (they sure like to have tons of mosques) but I was just appalled. Sickened. TOO many."

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    Fremont seems to be the most Muslim city in The Bay Area.

    Wouldn’t surprise me…. not sure if it still is but at one point Fremont had the highest Sikh pop. in the US. When the schools try to put in any new policy they don’t like the emails flood in, from all along the West coast and from India. We’ve been invaded, thoroughly.

    A few months ago a Buddhist compound in one of the inneer East Bay cities burned, and affected some surrounding homes not part of their compound…. it was a street of wood framed Victorian, Edwardian smaller homes. The monks had lit one thousand candles and all 4 monks went to bed. Of course camera crews descended and as best I could tell not one of the monks was conversant in ANY language. It all sounded mentally deficient.

    Frankly why on earth are they here? Worse they (the glut of immigrants) are moving into city and town government, often with poor English skills.

  243. @Nico
    You can't tell me this is anything even remotely like the hideous Saracen do-ups creeping like dry rot across Europe and America nowadays.

    http://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-people/medieval-women/photo-r-m-n-r-g-ojeda/
    This is the traditional headdress of a typical European woman.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    And this is the headgear of contemporary European men.
    You're being silly, just stop it.
    , @anon
    You do realize your argument about modesty is a undercut by the massive amount of cleavage right?
    , @Nico
    It's just not clear what your point is. Any way you slice it, the ugly, achromatic, amorphous death shrouds increasingly widespread among female Saracens in the West as well as in those formerly relatively indifferent Muslim countries are quite anathema not only to the modern dress of the former but also to the traditional dress of both.
  244. @Almost Missouri

    "we westerners have seriously harmed our own culture by not taking modesty seriously"
     
    Yes, I'm glad someone else sees this. Muslim body coverings are a somewhat more extreme version of the modest dress customs that used to prevail in the West as well. Note that it is not just for women in Islamic countries. Men generally don't wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either. Indeed, Muslim men should cover their faces too if they are devout, with a beard! So we err when we assume that Muslim dress is purely some kind of sexual supremacy/repression.

    I don't know why this fact is so underappreciated when it is so obvious. The strange hostility of the the naysayers to your comment seems connected to this modern blind spot as well. Perhaps it is the modern fetish for literal/material interpretation of everything?

    On spot! Traditionally, Muslim men covered their whole bodies plus their heads in public – this was near universal. Only Modern/Post-Modern Muslim men have started to bear their arms and heads. In the past, this was considered a sign of such low character that (depending on the society) a bare-headed man’s testimony would not be accepted in court.

    It would be great if Western women recaptured their more modest past with a style that is authentically Western in composition. I look at some of the photographs or sketches from the past and I am blown away by how elegant and feminine the dresses are – and they had such unique head dresses/coverings.

    Peace.

  245. @Progressive Matricist
    Peasant women did not wear those things.

    http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/
    They wore these things. M

    • Agree: Percy Gryce
  246. @Lot
    IN 2014 and before, the San Diego DMV office was pretty well run. The wait was about 35 minutes, but you take a number and can go for a half hour walk, then they will be ready for you. No actual standing in line like in some states. You could also schedule online appointments a day or two in advance, though I never needed to do that.

    Once we passed the driver license for illegals law, it quickly went downhill. Since they will not have valid US ids, there is a long process involving foreign documents, us utility bills, and so forth and most by people with weak English. It sucks up so much of their time that wait times are now far longer and appoints require 2+ weeks advance notice.

    “IN 2014 and before, the San Diego DMV office was pretty well run.”

    Is San Diego seeing a recent influx of Somalis? When I was in your city last month to attend Comic Con International, I was paired up not once but twice with Somali Uber drivers.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Hard to say as we've always had East African cab drivers. Many are Eritrean, as I often see "Eritrea Taxi" on the side of them.

    I've never had a Somali Uber driver out of 100+ trips over the years, avoiding unpleasant Muslims is part of the reason I like Uber.

    The one and only time I saw Somalis in my neighborhood was this year, arguing in a store parking lot about something with police kind of observing the argument in the friendly manner. That is not really an influx though.

    I've seen more small, polite Francophone blacks working as store clerks over the past couple years, I don't know for sure if they are African or Haitian, but I'd guess African. Fortunately the rents are too high here to attract much refugee resettlement.
  247. @Tiny Duck
    Muslim women are not forced to cover up. They makes the free decision. Obviously Muslim culture is seen as superior to western white "culture". The proof is in the pudding.

    I actually think covering up is a positive development. I wish all women felt so inclined. Covered up women aren't throwing their sexuality in the face of frustrated men. I think it is better for society as a whole if women are covered up so as not to inflame the rage and anger of non alpha men

    Covering up makes people more obsessed with sex, not less. Ostentatiously covering up some part of the body and claiming it’s for modesty causes that body part to become a sexual symbol. Covering up everything makes everything erotic. Eventually men start ejaculating because they see a bare ankle.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    This. Remember that video of a rapefugee trying to have his way with a mannequin? Another consequence is arguably rampant pederasty in places where sexual segregation is the norm.
    , @Almost Missouri
    I can't agree. Our ubiquitous-porn society is very sex-obsessed even though nothing is covered.
  248. @Steve Sailer
    In 1980, Hyde Park in London was full of rich Gulf Arabs vacationing.

    The Daily Mail has a piece every few weeks about vacationing Saudi brats and their gold-plated cars. Came out of a tube station in ’91 to walk into an entourage of Saudi tourists with flowing white thawbs. Exotic back then.

  249. Pam Geller has been warning about Islam in America for a while. She actually tracks and follows through on individual news items.

    The black Muslim guy who beheaded his white female co-worker (and tried to kill a second co-worker):

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/ohio-muslim-beheads-co-worker.html/

    Soros leak shows his funding of anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian causes, including an enemies list:

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/soros-foundation-enemies-list-pamela-geller-robert-spencer-et-al.html/

    Muslims in Germany dressing up as “Sharia Police” driving around and telling people not to drink:

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/sharia-patrols-in-europe-creating-the-eurabian-caliphate.html/

    Brawl on the beach after Corsican teens attacked by Muslim bathers with hatchets and burkinis:

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/france-muslim-migrants-attack-beachgoers.html/

    Two separate Muslim migrant attacks in the small town of Twin Falls, Idaho: first a 5 year old white girl is gang raped by migrant boys, second a Somali sexually assaults a retarded woman.

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/06/idaho-muslim-migrants-rape-5-year-old.html/

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/another-muslim-migrant-sex-assault-in-twin-falls-idaho-media-touted-perp-as-moderate-2-months-ago.html/

    (They also brought bedbugs to the town)

    Multiple cases of Muslims threatening and physically disrupting Christian church services:

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/california-muslims-screaming-allahu-akbar-through-a-bullhorn-terrorize-church-during-worship-service.html/

    Rotherham child sex ring still going strong, millions spent on investigations without arrests, witness intimidation:

    http://pamelageller.com/2016/08/uk-muslim-child-sex-trafficking-rings-still-happening-on-an-industrial-scale.html/

  250. @Almost Missouri

    "Hair is about the least sexual thing about a woman."
     
    Please explain this to the Saudi religious police (mutawaeen) who insist that women cover their hair specifically because of the sexual attractiveness. And I agree with them. Beautiful hair is attractive. And I suspect you (or at least your id) actually agrees too, even if you (ego-you) won't admit it. Have you dated many bald women in your life?

    Beautiful hair is attractive, but it’s far from sexual, try imagining young men (not rapefugees) ogling a woman’s hair with a straight face.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Please explain this to Camille Paglia

    https://books.google.com/books?id=TTdfPGhvyBEC&pg=PA329&dq=hair+sexual+personae+paglia+hair

    [thanks to European-American for the link]
    , @Josh
    Every man finds a woman less attractive when she gets a short haircut.
  251. @International Jew
    Target, pfff. You should see Walmart. The employees speak so many different languages (which usually don't include English in anything more than broken scraps), I wonder how they can even work together effectively.

    Lord isn’t that the truth. We are definitely strangers in our own country when to hear only Spanish is close to comforting.

    God I hate the “Elites”, including the Charles Murray’s of the world that are bashing Trump.

  252. @eah
    A very third world experience.

    Going to a DMV office in CA has been 'a very third world experience' for about forty years -- another way to have your own personal 'third world experience' is to take a trip outside the US, and upon returning, when going thru passport control take a look at who's alongside you in the line for 'US Citizens + Green Card + Immigrant Visa Holders'.

    when going thru passport control take a look at who’s alongside you in the line for ‘US Citizens’

    Heh-heh, definitely true in San Fran. It’s the people in the foreigners’ line — European tourists for the most part — who you’d think are the Americans.

  253. @Lagertha
    "Muslims keep their women secluded and making babies while they prey on kafir women."

    Exactly. Wearing Hijabs/Burqas/Niqabs is diametrically opposed to the idea of gender equality; women's advancement; women's rights. Ugh, headscarves make me feel sick every time I see them...and it makes me feel that the person wearing it is just a pathetic loser submitting to parochial patriarchy.

    Note to chauvinists and weak women: God doesn't care what you wear.

    Those who are anti-patriarchy are just as much a problem as those invaders. The west was patriarchal. Now its being invaded by a foreign patriarchy.

    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    Exactly.
    , @Lagertha
    ha ha! - depends on the meaning of was! - "The west was patriarchal. Now, its...." Let's agree that foreign patriarchies are not our patriarchies :)
  254. @ChrisZ
    Interesting question at the end, STS. But perhaps the comment above by leftist Tiny Duck offers a clue to an answer. In defending the dress codes of Muslim women as freely chosen (pro-choice?), he goes a step further by calling this a "positive development" that he wishes "all women" would follow.

    It occurs to me that many leftists, especially the "elite" variety, have become fed-up with the slatternly results of sexual liberation. Sexual libertinism served its purpose for them by eroding traditional social norms, and setting the stage for abortion, divorce, etc. But they no more wish to see their own daughters in immodest public displays than do their "enemies" on the Right.

    What Left-elites CANNOT do is call for a return to the modesty of earlier American eras: this would be seen (rightly) as a vindication of that earlier tradition, Christian morality, and the Right in general. Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however--especially one opposed to the West -- offers a way of endorsing modesty while being "transgressive" at the same time.

    The Left's opposition to Christian morality runs deep. In former times it turned to secularism for that purpose; but as secularism collapses under its own failures and contradictions, is it possible that leftists will turn to Islam in order to continue their comfortable defiance of Christianity? That the Left would not only tolerate but defend and embrace Islam was one of the seemingly outrageous predictions made by Houellebecq in "Submission." But as the Duck shows, it may be closer to fulfillment than we think.

    “Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time.”

    This is the most intriguing interpretation of this conundrum I have yet read.

    • Replies: @newrouter
    >“Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time.”<

    i stay away from mentally disturbed folks.
  255. @biz

    Men generally don’t wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either.
     
    Men not wearing shorts is not a modesty thing. It isn't even a particularly Muslim thing.

    Most men in third world countries do not wear short pants - especially India, SE Asia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean - for the reason that schoolboys uniforms in those countries do have short pants. It is seen as immature and child-like to wear shorts.

    Even in many (most?) parts of Europe you won’t see many adults (males in particular) wearing shorts unless they’re playing a sport or at a beach resort or something similar.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Lederhosen must freak them out (particularly when combined with wurst & bier, and beards).
  256. @Lagertha
    the Kardashians are Armenian (oldest Christian country in the world) so yeah, never gonna happen. Kim was just in Armenia. Armenians are not Arabs (duh) and, if they do emigrate to the USA, they have a lot more money and tend to move closer to where the other American Armenians live in CA, NJ, NYC. Armenians are cool with the Iranians, but NOT with the Azerbaijanis.
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    WTF? I've seen all those national costumes since the 80's...don't get your point about 'abnormal.'
    , @Marcus
    I've seen a few photos of Arabic-speaking Christian immigrants to the US pre-1924, the women weren't wearing any head covering, but the men had what I think are fezzes, guess those were worn all throughout the Ottoman lands by a variety of groups.
    , @Alden
    Their Father is Armenian. Parents were divorced when the oldest kid was about 10. It was the Mother who caused the divorce. She got bored with her millionaire good provider attorney husband and had an affair with some exercise instructor or something equally useless

    The Mother is not Armenian, she is Scots English descent. It's the Mother née Christine Houghton who is responsible for what her daughters are. Altogether they are worth about half a billion so I guess posting naked pictures of their fat selves on the Internet is a lot more profitable than teaching or the long hard slog through medical law or business school

    But don't blame their Armenian side for what they are. The Father died young as well as being divorced when the girls were young.
  257. @melendwyr
    Covering up makes people more obsessed with sex, not less. Ostentatiously covering up some part of the body and claiming it's for modesty causes that body part to become a sexual symbol. Covering up everything makes everything erotic. Eventually men start ejaculating because they see a bare ankle.

    This. Remember that video of a rapefugee trying to have his way with a mannequin? Another consequence is arguably rampant pederasty in places where sexual segregation is the norm.

  258. @Almost Missouri

    "women and betas will not even allow us"
     
    Dude, no offense, but why are you waiting for their permission?

    It will require a coordinated effort.

  259. @anonymous
    You need to get your hormone levels checked. Your response to being lied to in your face and then doormatted is unhealthy.

    She lied when she said "through"... if it was me I would've unloaded on her and retaken my rightful place in line. Just reading this stuff makes me rage.

    All you have to do is fight back. Bullies like this back down like wilted flowers.

    I recently saw a short obese Latin woman in a quickie mart line try to bully an actual cowboy (ranch hand) a big guy and he went verbally ballistic on her and she was terrified and humiliated. It was brutal and appropriate.


    When I was waiting in line, one short rotund woman with her brood behind me said, “excuse me, can I get through?” I didn’t know where she planned on going, since it was a line, but I moved my cart aside. She proceeded to move into a space I had left ahead of me, to allow other shoppers to get by, cutting in front of me.

    “She lied when she said “through””
    in That London, over here, it wouldn’t have been a lie. She was simply obstructed by the shopper further up the line from you in her righteous attempt to do a runner with a trolley-full of jizya, right out of the store. In the full-on Dalek suit, no security jobsworth would have dared to challenge her (if it was indeed a “her”).

  260. @Lot

    feathering their getaway nests in case their corruption ever inspired a revolution.
     
    This is why West Coast and NYC real estate, while expensive now, should keep going up. The Chinese economy is huge. US GDP is 18 trillion, China's is 11, and growing much faster. The rich there, in the world's 2nd biggest economy, overwhelmingly would like to live in a big US city over China's big cities.

    The rising generation in China that has money knows the crowds and heavy pollution are unhealthy and unpleasant, and the USA is a much safer and secure place. The prudent thing to do is not buy Chinese real estate, which is even more expensive than US real estate, nor make investments in the country's corrupt stock and bond markets. The banks too are corrupt and keeping money there is an invite to being shaken down by the local communist party's thugs. That money is going to just keep on flowing into US real estate markets.

    Go to the Queens crap (county in NYC) blog. Not hard to find. In fact…… http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/

  261. @biz

    Men generally don’t wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either.
     
    Men not wearing shorts is not a modesty thing. It isn't even a particularly Muslim thing.

    Most men in third world countries do not wear short pants - especially India, SE Asia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean - for the reason that schoolboys uniforms in those countries do have short pants. It is seen as immature and child-like to wear shorts.

    Uh, yeah, that’s kind of the point: attire is a civilizational thing. Discard one, you’re endangering the other.

  262. @helena
    The thing about hair covering in European society is that it always had a meaning - rain or church, or for the full removal of hair from sight, vows of chastity.

    When the debate first started in England it was remiss of the CoE not to point out that women imitating nuns is offensive to the native culture.

    You can’t expect much from CoE.

  263. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    To celebrate the fact that Tiny D*ck is back I leave you with this news about voting intentions:

    https://twitter.com/Ricky_Vaughn99/status/765250124670906370

  264. @anon

    This is a phenomenon that happens in some muslim countries as well, as more muslims adopt wahhabist customs imported from Saudi Arabia.
     
    Yes - a *huge* part of this has been the influence of Saudi Arabia funding wahabi mosques all over the world.

    The more a desert is involved in a religion the harsher it will be.

    The more a desert is involved in a religion the harsher it will be.

    Well that explains the Aztecs. Maybe a pyramid topped with an altar should be set up in Times Square. Any volunteers for the obsidian knife detail?

    • Replies: @newrouter
    Arch of Triumph of Palmyra, not Temple of Baal, to rise in New York and London

    http://www.christiantoday.com/article/arch.of.triumph.of.palmyra.not.temple.of.baal.to.rise.in.new.york.and.london/84086.htm
  265. @biz

    Men generally don’t wear short trousers or even short sleeve shirts in Muslim countries either.
     
    Men not wearing shorts is not a modesty thing. It isn't even a particularly Muslim thing.

    Most men in third world countries do not wear short pants - especially India, SE Asia, the Middle East, and the Caribbean - for the reason that schoolboys uniforms in those countries do have short pants. It is seen as immature and child-like to wear shorts.

    Robert E Howard (the creator of Conan) worked as an assistant for a British geologist who was doing work for various oil companies in Texas in the ’20s. Howard was quite shocked by the Brit’s fondness for wearing shorts.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Part of the job when touring the Colonies, old boy. Wouldn't feel dressed without 'em.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v357/zaphobeeblebrox/WW1_Bush_Shirt.jpg
    Does a top-hole job in over-aweing the Natives, if combined with the odd pith helmet, I'm sure you'll agree. Particularly in Texas, wherever that is. Somewhere hot, probably.
  266. @Jefferson
    I read that Louis Farrakhan's father was Portuguese. That would explain why he has a Mulatto phenotype. He doesn't look like he came straight out of The Congo.

    He’s from Boston and there’s a large Potuguese community in Eastern Massachusetts.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I think Farrakhan is from the Caribbean bourgeois caste. Don't know specifically which Euro admixture.

    He did attend attend the elite Boston schools, though. He's also a good violinist. One of my friends met his daughter. Described her as very educated and polished.
  267. @Romanian
    I'm a bit biased in favor of porcelain skin. It might be a sort of anti-Gypsy sorting mechanism. I especially detest the tanning craze, which is also very unhealthy.

    I will admit that they have an easy sort of exoticism, enough to intrigue but not enough to repel. Kind of like the difference between liking young Halle Berry or Alicia Keys and liking Serena Williams.

    Of course, caste matters. The society is very stratified by social custom, which is why it has so many high achievers, despite not being that great overall. The better sort of Iranians are really White and would not look out of place in Europe. I've even seen blue eyes. They're mostly the ones you interact with at higher levels. Plenty of brown masses within the cities, though. However, it's the Azeri plurality that takes the cake in the looks department. This is my experience.

    I kept getting mistaken for an Iranian. It's not hard to do, since I also grow a beard for street cred whenever I go to the area. One guy thought I was my minder's cousin.

    “One guy thought I was my minder’s cousin.”
    Hah. Friend of my kid went walkabout in unadvisable destinations last year. Got chased by Kazakh and again by Uzbek imbeciles (I suppose we’d call them “winos” here), yelling “Jihadi! Jihadi!” because he’d tried to grow his (post-graduate) beard out en route. For the record, he’s half Scottish (ex-Mandate police), and half Palestinian Christian. The saner locals (ex-Soviet oldsters) pulled them off and, er, calmed them down, each time.
    Some kids are just born dumb. And lucky.

    • LOL: Romanian
  268. @candid_observer
    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem "complex". Immigrants don't get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.

    The details of how it's implemented can be worked out later.

    Look, Hillary and Obama has said that they are vetting every single one of the 10s of thousands of "refugees" for terrorism. How is what Trump is proposing harder to achieve than that would be?

    It's actually amusing to see the contortions the left is already going through to dismiss this idea. Oh it can't be done! It would require Congress to pass legislation! (As if any number of proposals Presidential candidates make don't also require legislation).

    Here's the point, sputter, and general flailing about of the WAPo on this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/08/15/donald-trumps-crazy-ideas-about-immigration-just-got-even-crazier/

    Look, even if all the proposal amounts to is a filling out of a survey of family and friends, it can be made feasible, even if not 100% effective because of potential lying.

    But here's the thing: Hillary and the left simply cannot allow any such proposal to go forward. They know that Muslim activists will never abide it. They cannot contradict those activists, because that is the progressive religion.

    The proposal puts the basic "intersectionality" contradiction of the left and Hillary on Muslims in full public display. That is the real point of the proposal, from a political point of view.

    I'll love to see how Hillary tries to squirm out of this. That's where debates are really, really handy -- to make simple logical points that are slum dunk wins.

    Milo has something to say about this:

    http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/08/15/republicans-just-overtook-dems-gay-rights/

    I have no idea why the basic concept might seem “complex”. Immigrants don’t get in unless they subscribe to our values, which include gay rights and equality for women.

    No, they don’t, and it’s nuts to ASK the government to test us for leftist ideological purity.

  269. Speaking of how clothing defines culture. how’s this for a stark contrast:

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Beach volleyball, Germany vs Egypt


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-buogD8zUHs
  270. @Almost Missouri

    "Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time."
     
    This is the most intriguing interpretation of this conundrum I have yet read.

    >“Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time.”<

    i stay away from mentally disturbed folks.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "i stay away from mentally disturbed folks."
     
    We would all love to. Unfortunately, these mentally disturbed folks, Progressives, don't stay away from us. All must embrace the Progs' "right side of history" or suffer the consequences!
  271. @Steve Sailer
    Women's hair grows longer than men's hair.

    Yes, long hair is one of those universal markers of femininity, like breasts and hips, which the mutawaeen also want covered.

  272. @syonredux
    Speaking of how clothing defines culture. how's this for a stark contrast:




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLpp2nV8HyM

    Beach volleyball, Germany vs Egypt

  273. @Expletive Deleted

    The more a desert is involved in a religion the harsher it will be.
     
    Well that explains the Aztecs. Maybe a pyramid topped with an altar should be set up in Times Square. Any volunteers for the obsidian knife detail?
  274. @Steve Sailer
    Which Hyde Park are the hibab's taking over: Speaker's Corner in London or Milton Friedman's Hyde Park in Chicago? Or both?

    I’m in Hyde Park Chicago – Milton Friedman’s forming stomping ground.

    These Islamists were showing their butts to me, bowing to the East off the 55th street point on the shore of Lake Michigan.

    I politely gave my opinion that this wasn’t appropriate behavior as it was the 21st century not the 8th century.

    Some Lib White U of C grad student rebuked me for being an a*** hole and the Islamists said…

    “peace”.

    I responded with

    “Yeah I know it’s a religion of peace”.

  275. @Anonym
    There is some serious grade inflation going on if her B cup qualifies as [big-boobed]

    You do realize that’s a picture of the wife, not the girlfriend? (Pro tip ; Pakistanis aren’t blonde)

    • Replies: @Anonym
    Yes, I scrolled down.
  276. @newrouter
    >“Embracing the religious strictures of an alien culture, however–especially one opposed to the West — offers a way of endorsing modesty while being “transgressive” at the same time.”<

    i stay away from mentally disturbed folks.

    “i stay away from mentally disturbed folks.”

    We would all love to. Unfortunately, these mentally disturbed folks, Progressives, don’t stay away from us. All must embrace the Progs’ “right side of history” or suffer the consequences!

  277. @Forbes
    I had a friend who was an engineer for Babcock & Wilcox building power gen/de-salination plants in Saudi Arabia during the '80s. He marveled at the hypocrisy, After take-off, the pilot would announce leaving Saudi airspace, and all the traditional Saudi garb would come off, and the drinks cart would come out from locked storage. With the reverse occurring on return flights.

    I had a friend who was an engineer for Babcock & Wilcox building power gen/de-salination plants in Saudi Arabia during the ’80s.

    One fellow who worked there told me the problem with the OPEC states culturally is they cannot seem to maintain infrastructure, and if it wasn’t farmed to western European nations, those countries would go dark, one by one, because they collectively have a massive blind spot when it comes to required maintenance on their power grids etc.
    He said he serviced electrical transformers that hadn’t been touched in 10 years, which in sand-blasted countries, is extremely problematic.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Yes, but it's not just a "blind spot" for "required maintenance". The oil kingdoms entirely depend on Western skills and third world labor. Take those away and they immediately go dark.

    Fortunately for them, oil looks to be a good long-term bet.
    , @Lurker
    The oil is only valuable because YT needed it and it's still YT who is there to get it out of the ground. The Arabs who happen to live above the oil deposits are quite irrelevant from any technical standpoint.
  278. @Anon
    Well, that's one way to solve the 'black women are less attractive than white women' problem that black women angst about a lot.

    I wonder if someone's ever proposed the idea that the burka was adopted as an item of clothing in the Middle East because it hides ugliness. In a society based on arranged marriages, it could be used to delude grooms until it's too late to break it off without a lot of trouble.

    Lack of a burka may have been a genetic driver in making white women more attractive than women in many other places of the planet. If men can see what all the women in a community look like, they'll chase after the prettiest ones, and those women will be the most likely to breed, and more likely to have more children than the ugly ones. 10,000 years of this sort of selective pressure will produce overall effects in the entire white breeding pool.

    In a way, I see your point. I have been weirded-out by burqas and niqabs for a long time….wondering why this is even still a “thing” for today’s Muslims (mostly Sunni). I admit to having often thought about the “ugly girls hidden under burqas,” so their cultural male counterparts will remember “home cooking,” or something pathetic and homely like that.

    And, true, beautiful girls have always had hundreds of suitors beyond their needs. Beautiful girls rule in so many ways. So, maybe the burqa is a way for men to know they get a virgin wife that only produces their progeny – even guys that are not goodlooking will get a virgin bride. However, the lack-of-burqa women will always be that siren call for men, Muslim or not. And, even a not so pretty girl with a hot body is still a hot magnet – “’cause what you see is what you get.” So, in my humble opinion (Ehrhmpphh!) burqa-clad still lose by 1. But, if you really hate men (or were stuck with daddy picking one for you) but want children, being under a giant lamp shade may be a weird trade-off.

    I am in my Autumn years as a woman. Yet, when I walk along the boulevards of the Nordic countries, the only young men who stare me down are MENA men. The only other men who stare me down are the silver foxes (I fullly accept that 70+ guys are now hitting on me) in the Rockies when I am skiin’ or snow shoeing :)!

  279. @Romanian
    Niger has 7, even though its wet areas are what Nigeria considers dry areas :)))

    The population grew like 6 times in the last 40 years. And, when asked, women say they'd have more children if they had more money. I guess polygamy really is key - make them compete against each other to please you.

    Ultimately, the issue is not that everyone will eventually be under replacement (though I do not believe that). It's that the last to reach replacement will have a huge advantage over the others and moral claim over resources and lebensraum. Think of the overpopulation in their land... Wasn't there an article that said migrants should settle the empty spaces of Italy? I still giggle when thinking about that pearl of wisdom. "Screw the archeological dig, they need the stones for housing"

    “Wasn’t there an article that said migrants should settle the empty spaces of Italy? I still giggle when thinking about that pearl of wisdom.”
    They recently seem to have annoyed the Corsicans again, of all people. Not the Dutch, nor the Spanish or English. The frickin’ Corsicans. I guess they must be as dumb as people reckon after all. This will not end well.
    http://www.france24.com/en/20160815-corsica-tense-burkini-beach-brawl-france-muslim-islam

    • Replies: @Romanian
    I wasn't referring to the probable reaction of the Italians. Many of them are cucked, as I found out to my amazement. It was the idea of seeing Italy as some sort of frontier, with wide open spaces to settle like Americans going out West. The whole country wears the garb of past civilization. To settle any part of it is to destroy ruins, build over bones, ruin ancient vistas. It's sacrilege if done by anyone other than Italians.
  280. @Hibernian
    He's from Boston and there's a large Potuguese community in Eastern Massachusetts.

    I think Farrakhan is from the Caribbean bourgeois caste. Don’t know specifically which Euro admixture.

    He did attend attend the elite Boston schools, though. He’s also a good violinist. One of my friends met his daughter. Described her as very educated and polished.

  281. @JZ
    I live in a Chicago western suburb--Naperville-- and hijab wearing women are ubiquitous in my neck of the woods. The transformation from non hijab to hijab women is frankly spectacular the past year. Not sure what to make of it.

    It’s Mau-Mau, in a different wig. Flak-catchers, stand to.

    • Agree: Auntie Analogue
  282. @Thea
    Ages ago I took a class on Islam and the professor told us the head covering predates Mohammed. Rich women in the Arabian Peninsula were always covered. The lower class women began to imitate them as often happens.

    About head covers in church, I wear one:
    1 Corinthians 11 :5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

    Hijab means curtain or screen (of separation): body covering is only a part of it. Practices like this were indeed practiced by various aristocracies well before Muhammad, see also purdah in South Asia. Lower class women had to be out in the fields helping with the harvest.

  283. @yowza

    I had a friend who was an engineer for Babcock & Wilcox building power gen/de-salination plants in Saudi Arabia during the ’80s.
     
    One fellow who worked there told me the problem with the OPEC states culturally is they cannot seem to maintain infrastructure, and if it wasn't farmed to western European nations, those countries would go dark, one by one, because they collectively have a massive blind spot when it comes to required maintenance on their power grids etc.
    He said he serviced electrical transformers that hadn't been touched in 10 years, which in sand-blasted countries, is extremely problematic.

    Yes, but it’s not just a “blind spot” for “required maintenance”. The oil kingdoms entirely depend on Western skills and third world labor. Take those away and they immediately go dark.

    Fortunately for them, oil looks to be a good long-term bet.

  284. @Josh
    http://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-people/medieval-women/photo-r-m-n-r-g-ojeda/
    This is the traditional headdress of a typical European woman.

    And this is the headgear of contemporary European men.
    You’re being silly, just stop it.

    • Replies: @Talha
    He said 'traditional' not contemporary. Traditional head cover for European men varied over time and by region to region - including the helmets. Why are peole having such a difficult time with the fact that the many Europeans (men and women) covered their head in one way or another for centuries? Enter in 'traditional [ethnicity like Spanish] male clothing' into an image search and see what you get...

    Peace.
  285. @jay
    Those who are anti-patriarchy are just as much a problem as those invaders. The west was patriarchal. Now its being invaded by a foreign patriarchy.

    Exactly.

  286. @Matra
    Even in many (most?) parts of Europe you won't see many adults (males in particular) wearing shorts unless they're playing a sport or at a beach resort or something similar.

    Lederhosen must freak them out (particularly when combined with wurst & bier, and beards).

  287. @melendwyr
    Covering up makes people more obsessed with sex, not less. Ostentatiously covering up some part of the body and claiming it's for modesty causes that body part to become a sexual symbol. Covering up everything makes everything erotic. Eventually men start ejaculating because they see a bare ankle.

    I can’t agree. Our ubiquitous-porn society is very sex-obsessed even though nothing is covered.

    • Replies: @melendwyr
    It's covered most of the time. And the changing standards of dress determined what was shocking and what wasn't. The clothing - or lack thereof - changed first, then standards of modesty followed after. Bloomers were shocking when they were first introduced because they exposed the female ankle. Few people would consider that shocking now.

    The more women are forced to conceal, the more significant any exposure becomes. I'm sure there's a comfortable middle ground between burkas and nudity. But standards follow actions, not vice versa.
  288. @syonredux
    Robert E Howard (the creator of Conan) worked as an assistant for a British geologist who was doing work for various oil companies in Texas in the '20s. Howard was quite shocked by the Brit's fondness for wearing shorts.

    Part of the job when touring the Colonies, old boy. Wouldn’t feel dressed without ’em.Does a top-hole job in over-aweing the Natives, if combined with the odd pith helmet, I’m sure you’ll agree. Particularly in Texas, wherever that is. Somewhere hot, probably.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    On the other hand, there's Spode and his Black Shorts:

    The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you’re someone. You hear them shouting “Heil, Spode!” and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: “Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?
     
    ” —Bertie Wooster in The Code of the Woosters (1938)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShRf1svMcuA
  289. @jay
    Those who are anti-patriarchy are just as much a problem as those invaders. The west was patriarchal. Now its being invaded by a foreign patriarchy.

    ha ha! – depends on the meaning of was! – “The west was patriarchal. Now, its….” Let’s agree that foreign patriarchies are not our patriarchies 🙂

    • Replies: @Marcus
    If by patriarchy we mean the benevolent Indo-European customs (which survived even after Christianization) I'd be all for it. I used to agree with Schopenhauer, but most white men are instinctively repulsed by the oriental varieties of patriarchy, this seems to be biological http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/01/feminism-and-women-on-the-right/ see pt 2 also
    , @Lagertha
    your first sentence. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
  290. @Expletive Deleted
    And this is the headgear of contemporary European men.
    You're being silly, just stop it.

    He said ‘traditional’ not contemporary. Traditional head cover for European men varied over time and by region to region – including the helmets. Why are peole having such a difficult time with the fact that the many Europeans (men and women) covered their head in one way or another for centuries? Enter in ‘traditional [ethnicity like Spanish] male clothing’ into an image search and see what you get…

    Peace.

  291. @27 year old
    It's both.

    The official numbers tell us there have been millions of new muslim arrivals to our country during the Obama years. So there are certainly more of them around.

    I can also think of a lot of reasons why they would be more likely to wear the stuff now:

    1. Most obviously, there is no longer assimilation pressure and at the same time, Saudi Arabia is funding all the mosques, so their preachers are aggressively preaching non-assimilation.

    2. Selection bias. The muslims who wanted to come to America and become more American already came, and now they are reaching further down the chain and getting the ones who want to come to America and keep doing the same shit they've always done but with running water and electricity.

    3. Gang colors. If they really feel they are in a hostile, threatening environment, they wear the stuff they can identify their team mates and help eachother out.

    4. Intimidation of the locals. It's creepy first off and makes people uneasy, and at the second level, many normal Whites figure if you're wearing the trash bag look, you're probably hardcore enough to know someone in ISIS, so they better treat you well. Going further, they have to have noticed by now that higher status whites (SWPLs) will become immediately deferential to them while wearing the garb.

    5. Body armor. Again, they have noticed how things work, and they know that if they are victims of crime while being identifiable, obvious muslims, then it becomes hate crime and a Big Deal.

    6. Technology and communication back with the homeland. If they are talking by cell phone/facebook on a constant basis with their older, traditional relatives, they are being pressured to stay true and keep to the old ways. They also might get a facetime video call at any moment which would expose them if not wearing the stuff.

    7. ISIS shifting the muslim version of the overton window further toward traditionalism, making muslims act more muslim-y

    8. (reaching here) Some worldwide strauss/howe type of -thing- going on in the water, air, and/or global, meta-cultural memeplex that is making everybody want to act more to their type. Young right wing whites are getting more right wing than our parents. Young blacks are getting more blackity-black-black. Young liberal whites are going further toward blue hair SJWism. etc

    The official numbers tell us there have been millions of new muslim arrivals to our country during the Obama years. So there are certainly more of them around.

    Last few years I see loads more hijab wearers around so my guessTimate is that whatever you think here multiply by four or five. You–The young are naive. What else is new.

  292. @Tiny Duck
    Muslim women are not forced to cover up. They makes the free decision. Obviously Muslim culture is seen as superior to western white "culture". The proof is in the pudding.

    I actually think covering up is a positive development. I wish all women felt so inclined. Covered up women aren't throwing their sexuality in the face of frustrated men. I think it is better for society as a whole if women are covered up so as not to inflame the rage and anger of non alpha men

    Finally, I now know for sure Tiny Duck is just goofing. It took a while for me to be sure.

    Bravo, sir.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Tiny Duck deserves to be "exterminated." I don't like people wasting space or time. Now is not the time to be anal.
  293. @Lagertha
    ha ha! - depends on the meaning of was! - "The west was patriarchal. Now, its...." Let's agree that foreign patriarchies are not our patriarchies :)

    If by patriarchy we mean the benevolent Indo-European customs (which survived even after Christianization) I’d be all for it. I used to agree with Schopenhauer, but most white men are instinctively repulsed by the oriental varieties of patriarchy, this seems to be biological http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/01/feminism-and-women-on-the-right/ see pt 2 also