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Screenshot 2016-07-25 18.27.30

There’s a big new study of average heights around the world over the last century:

A century of trends in adult human height

Published July 26, 2016
Cite as eLife 2016;5:e13410

Abstract
Being taller is associated with enhanced longevity, and higher education and earnings. We reanalysed 1472 population-based studies, with measurement of height on more than 18.6 million participants to estimate mean height for people born between 1896 and 1996 in 200 countries. The largest gain in adult height over the past century has occurred in South Korean women and Iranian men, who became 20.2 cm (95% credible interval 17.5–22.7) and 16.5 cm (13.3–19.7) taller, respectively. In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries and in South Asia over the century of analysis. The tallest people over these 100 years are men born in the Netherlands in the last quarter of 20th century, whose average heights surpassed 182.5 cm, and the shortest were women born in Guatemala in 1896 (140.3 cm; 135.8–144.8). The height differential between the tallest and shortest populations was 19-20 cm a century ago, and has remained the same for women and increased for men a century later despite substantial changes in the ranking of countries.

Height is always interesting as a not-wholly-perfect analog for the Flynn Effect in IQ.

From the NYT write-up:

American men reached their maximum average height in 1996, and women in 1988. Two of the study’s authors, James Bentham and Majid Ezzati, both of Imperial College, London, speculated that the decline could be because of worsening nutrition standards for poor Americans but conceded that they had not measured the effects of immigration from, for example, Central American countries with substantially shorter citizens.

Average heights in North America, Western Europe and Japan rose quickly in the 20th century, then plateaued or shrank slightly, the authors said. African and South Asians have not grown very much and, in some countries, have shrunk slightly.

Africans were taller when the colonial era ended in the 1960s. They may have lost height because of collapsing health care systems, rising population density and less dietary diversity among urbanites, the authors said.

 
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  1. I’ve noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6’8″ himself. Obama is 6’1″, which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): “He’s always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something.”

    I’ve wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it’s just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall—especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not—that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan— I’d chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Oh you're referring to lefty as in leftist, and not left-handedness. Misread for a moment.

    How tall is Trump, by the way? 6'2"? Because Melania looks around 6'0". Eric is around 6'5". Ivanka looks to be near 6'0" herself.

    , @EriK
    Never thought of Gore (6'1") or Jackson (6'3") as particularly tall. Comey is a giant, but I wouldn't call him a leftist.
    , @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    A study came out that the average height of a CEO was 6'4"
    I was considered by my b-school classmates as: a great public speaker, highly educated/well read, charismatic, smart, and a leader... But I'm 5'7"
    So I'm going to start ginning up set asides for CEOs under 6 feet...
    "No longer the brains behind the tall operation!"
    I'm Kidding: height matters in commanding a room. Just as intelligence matters, work ethic matters. Some things that matter you are born with, some you can aquire, but there is no use in worrying about what you weren't born with...
    Aristotle focused on habits as a way to optimize what you were born with, others (including Theophrastus, his greatest pupil) got into the study of what you were born with... Which just leads to astrology basically. Nothing you can do about it...
    , @Truth

    I’d chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.
     
    So I take it you're voting for Hillary?
    , @Contrarian
    Tall men don't get mugged by reality as much.

    I strongly suspect that tall men are less likely to be victims of street crime. There are a lot of smug macho liberals who pride themselves of living in high crime neighborhoods and shame those who are afraid.
    , @Brutusale
    In my lifetime my state has had governors ranging in height from uber-lefty Mike Dukakis (listed at 5'8", in reality he looked my 5'4" ex-wife in the eye) to the current guv, RINO Charlie Baker, listed at 6'6" but, like Washington, the tallest guy in any room.
  2. That’s an incredibly shitty figure because the scales are different on the two colormaps. Plus it doesn’t illustrate the interesting thing, which is the regional variance in height changes, which could be plotted directly.

    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @sflicht
    Clicking through to the correct map (Figure 3) is actually quite interesting. Iran is a big outlier, with a much bigger increase in height than neighboring countries. Seems like there is a noteworthy colonialism/post-colonialism story. (Or perhaps an interesting Shia/Sunni story!)

    Libya is also a positive outlier, in another blow to American geopolitical storytelling.

    Scandinavia's height increase is much smaller than continental Europe's. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.
  3. The Black Lives Matter protesters started shouting during Senator Corey Booker’s speech.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    Yep, and it was a real good speech. Delivered perfectly. After all the filthy rich comedians and singer/songwriters. High I.Q., high talent elites. I could barely listen to the Republican convention. The liberals are smarter, but they hate me and my ilk, which is why I vote against them.
  4. @sflicht
    That's an incredibly shitty figure because the scales are different on the two colormaps. Plus it doesn't illustrate the interesting thing, which is the regional variance in height changes, which could be plotted directly.

    Clicking through to the correct map (Figure 3) is actually quite interesting. Iran is a big outlier, with a much bigger increase in height than neighboring countries. Seems like there is a noteworthy colonialism/post-colonialism story. (Or perhaps an interesting Shia/Sunni story!)

    Libya is also a positive outlier, in another blow to American geopolitical storytelling.

    Scandinavia’s height increase is much smaller than continental Europe’s. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I think the Near- and Middle-Eastern (Iran, Libya) height increase is due to the spread of petro-wealth. Note that Mexico and Venezuela have it too (height increase & petroleum).
    , @Olorin

    Scandinavia’s height increase is much smaller than continental Europe’s. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.
     
    I'm wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.

    People tend to lose stature as they age, and lose relatively more if taller, compared to shorter people on average.

    Average heights in North America, Western Europe and Japan rose quickly in the 20th century, then plateaued or shrank slightly, the authors said.
     

    Aren't these the greying aging horrifying societies that absolutely have to import a gazillion Third World "children" because they're getting old and helpless and stupid and can't figure out how to play Pokemon Go while driving and such?

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age...but that also gets interpreted as "obesity."

    One might almost conclude that aging to the 70s and beyond is not terribly well understood, being so new to the human species and all.

  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    ” David Duke: Trump Left The Door Open To Supporting My Candidacy

    “So he did something, I think he felt like he did as much as he could do.” ”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/david-duke-trump-left-the-door-open-to-supporting-my-candida

    White nationalist and former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke says Donald Trump “did as much as he could” to leave the door open to supporting his Senate bid.

    On Meet The Press on Sunday, Trump was asked if he would support a Democrat over Duke. Trump answered, “I guess, depending on who the Democrat, but the answer would be yes.”

    During his radio show on Monday, Duke noted that Trump didn’t rule out support for his candidacy.

    “‘Would you vote for a Democrat against David Duke’ and Trump says, ‘well, I guess it depends who the Democrat will be so the answer is yes,’” Duke said. “You know, like maybe if there’s a good Democrat. But that’s not the answer they wanted and the headlines there were all over the place, you know, Trump basically said he could possibly vote, he could vote for David Duke if he was running against a liberal Democrat. So he did something, I think he felt like he did as much as he could do.”

    Duke said earlier in the program that he’s never in his political career seen his support as high as it was when he announced his candidacy for Senate as a Republican last week.

    “Since my declaration, I’ve never ever seen the level of overwhelming support in my whole political life as I received when I announced my candidacy for the United States Senate in Louisiana,” Duke said.

    Duke also reaffirmed his support for Trump in the broadcast.

    “I said to my people that they should support Donald Trump, I believe that absolutely with all my heart today because we have no other alternative than Donald Trump and I think he’s doing some great things for the party and for our people,” said Duke.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Duke really needs to shut up. But he knows that.
    , @PistolPete
    Why is this loser trying to screw over Trump? He must be a down low cuck.
  6. @whorefinder
    I've noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6'8" himself. Obama is 6'1", which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): "He's always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something."

    I've wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it's just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall---especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not---that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan--- I'd chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    Oh you’re referring to lefty as in leftist, and not left-handedness. Misread for a moment.

    How tall is Trump, by the way? 6’2″? Because Melania looks around 6’0″. Eric is around 6’5″. Ivanka looks to be near 6’0″ herself.

  7. Lot says:

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries

    I’ve never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe’s supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa’s income distribution.

    • Replies: @Lot
    It seems that most of Africa is getting shorter each year. Peak height for Africans was around 1970 births. Greater India is stagnant, and the rest of the world is getting taller.

    An interesting result is that most sexually dimorphic heights are in Latin America and the Caribbean, followed the Europe. Africans have the smallest sexual height gap.
    , @Anon
    US Africans have a tradition of drinking refrigerated cows' milk, which is less common in Africa, and this gives US Africans a calcium-derived height advantage. The reason Europeans are taller than they used to be is because they started adding yogurt to their diet in the hippie 1970s. Traditionally, Europeans were (and some still are) very scornful of American-style milk swilling. Yogurt-eating has made Europeans a taller people. Africans who were raised from childhood in Europe also eat yogurt, and thus they're taller, too.
    , @Yak-15
    It's hard to tell how tall someone is when they are driving.
    , @Anonymous
    To be in the top quarter of Africa is not much of a claim to wealth or privilege. It just means you aren't destitute and are urbanized.

    The humanitarian mass migration of Africans to the US at the very least is finding the intended targets that the leftists planners had sought.
    , @Unzerker
    There are quite a few African students in my small city and yes they are all short. So are most of the Caribbean blacks we have here from our former colony for that matter.

    I really don't understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.
    , @NickG

    I’ve never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans?
     
    I've lived in South Africa for 23 yrs and travelled extensively around the sub-region and the answer is yes, very much so. I'm 179 cm (5 ft 11 in) and don't often see blacks taller than me and most are quite a bit shorter.

    White South Africans tend to be tall and some of the Afrikaaners are huge.
    , @Perspective
    It would also seem to indicate that we get the top quarter of the Indian population in the west. Most Indian immigrants seem to be just below average height relative to Westerners as far as I can tell. Their children tend to be noticeably taller though. Anecdotally, I know an Indian family on my street where the father is 5'7, at the most. His son is well over 6 feet.
  8. Lot says:
    @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    It seems that most of Africa is getting shorter each year. Peak height for Africans was around 1970 births. Greater India is stagnant, and the rest of the world is getting taller.

    An interesting result is that most sexually dimorphic heights are in Latin America and the Caribbean, followed the Europe. Africans have the smallest sexual height gap.

  9. @Anonymous
    " David Duke: Trump Left The Door Open To Supporting My Candidacy

    “So he did something, I think he felt like he did as much as he could do.” "

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/david-duke-trump-left-the-door-open-to-supporting-my-candida

    White nationalist and former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke says Donald Trump “did as much as he could” to leave the door open to supporting his Senate bid.

    On Meet The Press on Sunday, Trump was asked if he would support a Democrat over Duke. Trump answered, “I guess, depending on who the Democrat, but the answer would be yes.”

    During his radio show on Monday, Duke noted that Trump didn’t rule out support for his candidacy.

    “‘Would you vote for a Democrat against David Duke’ and Trump says, ‘well, I guess it depends who the Democrat will be so the answer is yes,’” Duke said. “You know, like maybe if there’s a good Democrat. But that’s not the answer they wanted and the headlines there were all over the place, you know, Trump basically said he could possibly vote, he could vote for David Duke if he was running against a liberal Democrat. So he did something, I think he felt like he did as much as he could do.”

    Duke said earlier in the program that he’s never in his political career seen his support as high as it was when he announced his candidacy for Senate as a Republican last week.

    “Since my declaration, I’ve never ever seen the level of overwhelming support in my whole political life as I received when I announced my candidacy for the United States Senate in Louisiana,” Duke said.

    Duke also reaffirmed his support for Trump in the broadcast.

    “I said to my people that they should support Donald Trump, I believe that absolutely with all my heart today because we have no other alternative than Donald Trump and I think he’s doing some great things for the party and for our people,” said Duke.
     

    Duke really needs to shut up. But he knows that.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Or Trump needs to stop being a cuck and point out the double standards. They want Trump to punch right but they never ask leftists to punch left.
    , @snorlax
    Yeah. Was also a missed Sister Souljah moment opportunity for Trump.
  10. If I read this right,both Ireland and the UK were lite green in the first diagram,while Ireland is now darker green while the UK remains lite green. Are the Pakis pulling down the average?

    • Replies: @IBC
    In British army records from 200-plus years ago, Irish recruits were actually taller than those born in England. I was thinking that it might have been due to a relative class difference in the recruitment pools, but genetic factors may have also had an influence.
  11. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    US Africans have a tradition of drinking refrigerated cows’ milk, which is less common in Africa, and this gives US Africans a calcium-derived height advantage. The reason Europeans are taller than they used to be is because they started adding yogurt to their diet in the hippie 1970s. Traditionally, Europeans were (and some still are) very scornful of American-style milk swilling. Yogurt-eating has made Europeans a taller people. Africans who were raised from childhood in Europe also eat yogurt, and thus they’re taller, too.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
    Yoghurt eating made Europeans tall? Maybe in southern or eastern Europe. Definitely not in the Netherlands. We drink mostly milk. Always have been for that matter.
    , @anon

    US Africans have a tradition of drinking refrigerated cows’ milk...
     
    I've always been curious about this - if they're c. 20% NW Euro on average what percentage are lactose tolerant? If it was higher than 20% that would be a thing.

    Traditionally, Europeans were (and some still are) very scornful of American-style milk swilling.
     
    Maybe in hotter southern Europe. In NW Europe people drink milk by the bucket full (although less so since the anti-fat fad in the 1970s).

    I drink around four pints a day.
  12. @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    It’s hard to tell how tall someone is when they are driving.

  13. In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan
    African countries and in South Asia over the century of analysis.

    This makes sense since those are the only two major areas where Malthusian dynamics still play a significant role.

    ***

    Fascinating (and a bit questionable?) that in the 1896 cohort males from modern day Russia were similar to, and from Ukraine and Belarus higher than, males from Germany and Great Britain. Back then the Russian Empire was at the Malthusian edge whereas advanced Western Europe had long broken free of it (even if nutrition was substandard amongst the urban proletariat). Selection bias? Most historical auxology relies on military records, but military recruitment systems weren’t homogenous across Europe. I recall different figures from Baten though I’d have to check up on that.

    • Replies: @5371
    The authors have made lots of mistakes and papered over lots of contradictions, inevitable in a study of such vast scope. Height, unlike "IQ", can in principle be compared among almost all adult humans unambiguously, but doing so properly is still very hard.
    , @anon
    As you mention a lot of the records are military so it would depend a bit on recruitment methods.

    IIRC height among the urban poor declined during the industrial revolution so as the army was volunteer maybe that is skewing the results?

    IIRC Irish soldiers in this period were on average an inch taller.

    (alternatively more giant genes counter balancing the Malthusian aspect and bumping up the Russian average)

  14. Were there not famines in both Persia/Iran and Korea in the early 20th century?

    The Korean Americans that grew up in America were generally taller than most other Asians.

    I keep repeating this story but our parish let in a South Vietnamese family who were able to fly out (father was an officer, got wife and four kids on a plane to the US, had some real pull…he was a janitor at the grade school. Did it with a smile.). Anyway the oldest son showed up at age five and got the American diet of meat and milk, could dunk a basketball in eighth grade. Older sister never topped 5 foot. 2 of the four kids now called Dr. Tran.

    • Replies: @TheJester
    The impact of diet ....

    I recall the stories of what happened to the height of children in Japan after its surrender and occupation by US forces at the end of WWII. The US forces brought milk and meat to Japan to supplement a traditional rice and fish diet ... as the story goes. The height of some Japanese youth sored when compared to previous generations. I met the son of a Japanese immigrant who worked at the US university I attended in the 1960s. He was of the right age to have benefited from this change in diet after WWII. He was very tall; he was enormous!

    This would fit into the observation that the average heights in some sub-Saharan countries declined at the end of the colonial era due to a decline in health care, social services, and diet. This would also suggest that the impact of colonialism on indigenous populations was not always negative.
  15. @whorefinder
    I've noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6'8" himself. Obama is 6'1", which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): "He's always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something."

    I've wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it's just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall---especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not---that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan--- I'd chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    Never thought of Gore (6’1″) or Jackson (6’3″) as particularly tall. Comey is a giant, but I wouldn’t call him a leftist.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Gore and Jackson present very tall/big. 6'3" is very tall; professional sports tends to make us forget that while 6'6" is short for pro-baskebtall center, it's nearly a foot taller than a normal man.

    Comey is a leftist; he just admitted on national TV that Hillary Clinton is too powerful for him to prosecute, despite it being a crime for lesser people. He's admitted he's in the tank for the TPTB, which is Leftism in our society.
    , @Maj. Kong
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-director-comey-calls-agencys-lack-of-diversity-a-crisis-1468426138

    An open-shut case of anti-white racism, he wants YT held to quotas. Like the Ivy League used to do with Jews. But of course, WCMs can't be victims.
  16. @L Woods
    Duke really needs to shut up. But he knows that.

    Or Trump needs to stop being a cuck and point out the double standards. They want Trump to punch right but they never ask leftists to punch left.

  17. I wonder how much of the drop in US rankings is due to increased immigration from Asia and Latin America.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    Asians are not genetically short. I now work with a phalanx of very, very tall young Asians. With large amounts of protein, Asians can get as tall as Scandinavians.
    , @JimB
    A before and after comparison of the US and Australia, which had similar demographics in 1896, proves that the post 1965 influx of Hispanics and Asians has had a significant impact on US average height.
  18. I’d like to see California treated as a separate country on that map. Much of my family resided in California in 1896, and they were not short people. But I don’t think there are many of them left there today.

    In any event, this is a sad map to see. We’re now shorter than the French? Geez…

  19. I’m 6ft 4″ and change – 196 centimeters.

    When I’ve been in China or Japan, I’ve always felt like a combine harvester in a field of corn.

  20. The people of the Dinaric Alps (mainly South Slavs) are
    the tallest in the world with a male average height of
    185.6 cm (6ft 1.1 in). They are taller than the Dutch.

    By contrast, I was astonished to learn how short some
    of the 20th century leaders were: Hitler 5’8″, Mussolini 5’6″,
    Stalin 5’5″, Lenin 5’5″, Churchill 5’6″, Ben Gurion 5’0″ .
    But then everyone was shorter 100 years ago.
    On the other hand, Mao was 5’11” . Putin is 5’7″

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Mao's big size was part of his leadership charisma.
  21. The really interesting question of course, is what effect the change in average height had on golf course architecture?

    • Replies: @Hodag
    The increase in height combined with changes to club and ball technology has had a dramatic and deleterious effect on golf course architecture. The players today are giants even when compared to a generation ago. Dustin Johnson is 6 foot 4. Vijay. Jhonny Vegas. There are still some top shortish men (Rory) but the ability to really make the ball go with a huge swing plus go straight with the ProV1 means golf courses have to get longer and longer. The new courses for the US Open (Chambers Bay, Erin Hills) are 8000 yards from the tips. Tall men benefit more because of longer arms create longer swing arcs and more clubhead speed. Look what happened at Augusta to "Tiger-proof" it:. More trees. Higher grass in the "second cut.". Back tees. And they just bought land from Augausta CC next door for more back tees. Disgusting.

    Look what they did to Merion a few years back. Rough a foot high, fairways 20 yards across. There are few if any classic courses that can keep the top, tall men from shooting twenty under par or more. This is creating pressure for higher green speed to defend par. More long tee boxes. Unwalkable courses.

    The cat is out of the bad height wise. The easy fix is the ball.
  22. There was a debate about this elsewhere a couple of years ago. It was simply obvious that our shorter stature and higher BMI were not due to poor nutrition. It’s due to the influx of generally short and pudgy non-Europeans.

    Of course even whites are fatter now, but that’s another story.

  23. @Anon 2
    The people of the Dinaric Alps (mainly South Slavs) are
    the tallest in the world with a male average height of
    185.6 cm (6ft 1.1 in). They are taller than the Dutch.

    By contrast, I was astonished to learn how short some
    of the 20th century leaders were: Hitler 5'8", Mussolini 5'6",
    Stalin 5'5", Lenin 5'5", Churchill 5'6", Ben Gurion 5'0" .
    But then everyone was shorter 100 years ago.
    On the other hand, Mao was 5'11" . Putin is 5'7"

    Mao’s big size was part of his leadership charisma.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Mao was tall. How about Deng XiaPing? He was only 5 feet tall. In the cut-throat, life and death, party leadership power play during Mao's and Deng's time, height and formal education meant very little.
    , @Neil Templeton
    Always the most important question to ask a future leader...So how many hands is yer hoss?
    , @IBC
    Xi Jinping is 5'11". I remember NPR mocking Nicolas Sarkozy for his small size (5'5") and I've heard similar criticisms of Putin, though his height is less unusual. Did you notice Margaret Thatcher's height when you were standing and talking with her? I think people tend not to notice the height of "women" politicians unless they look like "little old ladies" (frail) or are exceptionally tall (potentially awkward looking).
  24. @L Woods
    Duke really needs to shut up. But he knows that.

    Yeah. Was also a missed Sister Souljah moment opportunity for Trump.

  25. In any event, this is a sad map to see. We’re now shorter than the French? Geez…

    Don’t be silly. “We” are not shorter, and “we” are not dumber. “Americans” are. A significant percentage of “Americans” are now stubbies. And stubbies are both short AND dumb.

  26. @EriK
    Never thought of Gore (6'1") or Jackson (6'3") as particularly tall. Comey is a giant, but I wouldn't call him a leftist.

    Gore and Jackson present very tall/big. 6’3″ is very tall; professional sports tends to make us forget that while 6’6″ is short for pro-baskebtall center, it’s nearly a foot taller than a normal man.

    Comey is a leftist; he just admitted on national TV that Hillary Clinton is too powerful for him to prosecute, despite it being a crime for lesser people. He’s admitted he’s in the tank for the TPTB, which is Leftism in our society.

    • Replies: @EriK
    How tall are you?
  27. @JohnnyWalker123
    The Black Lives Matter protesters started shouting during Senator Corey Booker's speech.

    Yep, and it was a real good speech. Delivered perfectly. After all the filthy rich comedians and singer/songwriters. High I.Q., high talent elites. I could barely listen to the Republican convention. The liberals are smarter, but they hate me and my ilk, which is why I vote against them.

    • Replies: @Marcus
    What are you smoking? It was terrible, Booker is yet another talentless high yella closet case.
  28. @sflicht
    Clicking through to the correct map (Figure 3) is actually quite interesting. Iran is a big outlier, with a much bigger increase in height than neighboring countries. Seems like there is a noteworthy colonialism/post-colonialism story. (Or perhaps an interesting Shia/Sunni story!)

    Libya is also a positive outlier, in another blow to American geopolitical storytelling.

    Scandinavia's height increase is much smaller than continental Europe's. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.

    I think the Near- and Middle-Eastern (Iran, Libya) height increase is due to the spread of petro-wealth. Note that Mexico and Venezuela have it too (height increase & petroleum).

    • Replies: @anon
    Shouldn't Iran (and NW India) have a significant amount of northern genes - if so only held back by nutrition.
  29. @Escher
    I wonder how much of the drop in US rankings is due to increased immigration from Asia and Latin America.

    Asians are not genetically short. I now work with a phalanx of very, very tall young Asians. With large amounts of protein, Asians can get as tall as Scandinavians.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Any statistical evidence?
    , @anon
    Where from though?

    There may be regional differences e.g. north China vs south.
  30. @Steve Sailer
    Mao's big size was part of his leadership charisma.

    Mao was tall. How about Deng XiaPing? He was only 5 feet tall. In the cut-throat, life and death, party leadership power play during Mao’s and Deng’s time, height and formal education meant very little.

  31. @Michelle
    Asians are not genetically short. I now work with a phalanx of very, very tall young Asians. With large amounts of protein, Asians can get as tall as Scandinavians.

    Any statistical evidence?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No lack of proteins for South Koreans and Japanese, and yet they are still not tall at all.

    Anyway, Karlin, why do you need evidence?
    Isn't wishful will enough to convince you?
    , @Anonymous
    There isn't any, of course. But there is some shaky circumstancial evidence from the study - SK women gained the most height over the century, and men were near the top as well. If that continues for a few more centuries and Scandinavians gain at their current pace...
  32. Hmmm the charts are a little misleading. At first it looks like Americans and many others shrunk, but the scales are different.

  33. @whorefinder
    I've noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6'8" himself. Obama is 6'1", which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): "He's always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something."

    I've wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it's just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall---especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not---that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan--- I'd chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    A study came out that the average height of a CEO was 6’4″
    I was considered by my b-school classmates as: a great public speaker, highly educated/well read, charismatic, smart, and a leader… But I’m 5’7″
    So I’m going to start ginning up set asides for CEOs under 6 feet…
    “No longer the brains behind the tall operation!”
    I’m Kidding: height matters in commanding a room. Just as intelligence matters, work ethic matters. Some things that matter you are born with, some you can aquire, but there is no use in worrying about what you weren’t born with…
    Aristotle focused on habits as a way to optimize what you were born with, others (including Theophrastus, his greatest pupil) got into the study of what you were born with… Which just leads to astrology basically. Nothing you can do about it…

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Yeah, I can see that height is just something that works in getting you leadership position, and it's not worth fuming over, unless you want to be a miserable, hated turd. Maximize your strengths and become the best you can be and don't be jealous of others. Otherwise you'll end up like feminists who get pissed that the pretty girls get all the alpha males.

    I wonder if many of those "power behind the throne" types in history were just shorter dudes who needed a convincing face to lead people. Wasn't that how Charlemagne's family rose to power initially? I'm not saying Charlemagne was short, but maybe his ancestors were smaller than the kings and just moved in the shadows acquiring power and taller wives until they became legitimately tall/strong enough to dispense with the old kings.

    Food for thought.

  34. Re the Flynn effect issue, one of the great objections of people aware of both HBD and game is that women are choosing the sexy but stupid/poor over the boring but smart/less poor. Thus, they suggest, welfare — by allowing women to ride the “alpha cock carousel”without worrying about a man’s earning potential — would seem to facilitate IQs going down but height going up.

    It’s true that the dumb are both more likely to receive welfare and to have bastard children (e.g., look at black America generally), with welfare exacerbating the fertility difference, which in isolation would seemingly suppress public IQ.

    No point here, just thoughts.

    • Replies: @anon

    one of the great objections of people aware of both HBD and game is that women are choosing the sexy but stupid/poor over the boring but smart/less poor
     
    No they're not.

    The problem with "game" is they're focused on getting casual sex rather than on reproduction so they've experimented and found that it's easier to get casual sex from r-type women than k-type women and the way to do it is to behave like an r-type male.

    Yes - makes perfect sense.

    So it's not nonsense but they stretch it too far - other people have been experimenting with getting reproduction out of k-type women for a long time and behaving like an r-type male doesn't work - being a provider works (beta or otherwise).

    1) r-type != k-type
    2) casual sex != reproduction
    3) welfare underclass environment != "normal" environment

    (and if you're a provider and alpha you get both lolz)

  35. @Escher
    I wonder how much of the drop in US rankings is due to increased immigration from Asia and Latin America.

    A before and after comparison of the US and Australia, which had similar demographics in 1896, proves that the post 1965 influx of Hispanics and Asians has had a significant impact on US average height.

  36. @Steve Sailer
    Mao's big size was part of his leadership charisma.

    Always the most important question to ask a future leader…So how many hands is yer hoss?

  37. @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    A study came out that the average height of a CEO was 6'4"
    I was considered by my b-school classmates as: a great public speaker, highly educated/well read, charismatic, smart, and a leader... But I'm 5'7"
    So I'm going to start ginning up set asides for CEOs under 6 feet...
    "No longer the brains behind the tall operation!"
    I'm Kidding: height matters in commanding a room. Just as intelligence matters, work ethic matters. Some things that matter you are born with, some you can aquire, but there is no use in worrying about what you weren't born with...
    Aristotle focused on habits as a way to optimize what you were born with, others (including Theophrastus, his greatest pupil) got into the study of what you were born with... Which just leads to astrology basically. Nothing you can do about it...

    Yeah, I can see that height is just something that works in getting you leadership position, and it’s not worth fuming over, unless you want to be a miserable, hated turd. Maximize your strengths and become the best you can be and don’t be jealous of others. Otherwise you’ll end up like feminists who get pissed that the pretty girls get all the alpha males.

    I wonder if many of those “power behind the throne” types in history were just shorter dudes who needed a convincing face to lead people. Wasn’t that how Charlemagne’s family rose to power initially? I’m not saying Charlemagne was short, but maybe his ancestors were smaller than the kings and just moved in the shadows acquiring power and taller wives until they became legitimately tall/strong enough to dispense with the old kings.

    Food for thought.

    • Replies: @Felix M
    Charlemagne wasn't short but his father, Pepin, was actually called "the Short". Perhaps because he was particularly short or perhaps because he was merely shorter than the other warlords in France (Gaul) at the time.

    BTW, John Howard in Australia is not at all tall. And, because he wasn't that impressive, he had to really fight to become his Party's leader. But, on becoming Prime Minister, his tenacity and application helped him to become quite formidable.
    , @anon

    I wonder if many of those “power behind the throne” types in history were just shorter dudes who needed a convincing face to lead people.
     
    Quite likely imo - especially in a context where the leader has to physically fight.

    It's always seemed to me the "natural" state of things would be the chief (leader) and the priest (adviser) rather than an all-in-one philosopher-king.
  38. Worldwide, iodine deficiency affects two billion people and is the leading preventable cause of intellectual and developmental disabilities.[1][2] According to public health experts, iodisation of salt may be the world’s simplest and most cost-effective measure available to improve health, only costing US$0.05 per person per year.[1] At the World Summit for Children in 1990, a goal was set to eliminate iodine deficiency by 2000. At that time, 25% of households consumed iodised salt, a proportion that increased to 66% by 2006.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodised_salt#In_public_health_initiatives

    We know that human growth hormone being secreted by our pituitary gland is the hormone responsible for growing taller, but there is another one important hormone that we need to consider if we want to increase our height. And that is the hormone being produced by our thyroid gland.

    Thyroid gland is the largest gland in our body. It is located at the neck inferior below thyroid cartilage (also known as adam’s apple for men). Thyroid also helps to grow taller because the thyroxine hormone that this gland produce helps to regulate the body’s metabolic rate and also control the rate of oxidation in our body. So, we need this gland to function properly for maximum height increase. If you just notice, this is why people or children with thyroid hormone deficiency don’t get taller and always have impaired brain.

    Unlike pituitary gland that can be effected by many things to produce human growth hormone, the thyroid needs only one chemical element in order to function properly and that is the iodine.

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Thyroid–Gland-Also-Helps-in-Growing-Taller&id=3114360

    Lynn and Rushton are not too concerned about what constitutes “White” and include North Africans and others who most theorists would not classify as “White”. The IQ of some countries, such as Australia, which has contributed more Nobel Prize winners than Japan, is a poor 98. But according to newspaper reports of televised Australian National IQ tests in 2002 , 2003 and 2004, the average Australian IQ score for a multiracial country was above 100. Men outscored women 112 to 108 and blondes (=Nordics) averaged 111 (which is greater than Lynn’s revised Ashkenazi Jewish average and also refutes the “dumb blonde” ideology of the media). People 181 to 200 cms tall (again predominately Nordics) averaged an IQ of 113.

    http://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    FYI, You need to update your Nobel list by country, Japan has twice the Nobel winners as Australia, two-third's of them since the year 2000, every one since then in the science Nobels. 16 winners in 15 years ( this years haven't been awarded yet ). Obviously, Australia is still ahead per capita.
  39. @whorefinder
    I've noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6'8" himself. Obama is 6'1", which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): "He's always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something."

    I've wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it's just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall---especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not---that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan--- I'd chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    I’d chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    So I take it you’re voting for Hillary?

  40. @Anatoly Karlin

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan
    African countries and in South Asia over the century of analysis.
     
    This makes sense since those are the only two major areas where Malthusian dynamics still play a significant role.

    ***

    Fascinating (and a bit questionable?) that in the 1896 cohort males from modern day Russia were similar to, and from Ukraine and Belarus higher than, males from Germany and Great Britain. Back then the Russian Empire was at the Malthusian edge whereas advanced Western Europe had long broken free of it (even if nutrition was substandard amongst the urban proletariat). Selection bias? Most historical auxology relies on military records, but military recruitment systems weren't homogenous across Europe. I recall different figures from Baten though I'd have to check up on that.

    The authors have made lots of mistakes and papered over lots of contradictions, inevitable in a study of such vast scope. Height, unlike “IQ”, can in principle be compared among almost all adult humans unambiguously, but doing so properly is still very hard.

  41. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    To be in the top quarter of Africa is not much of a claim to wealth or privilege. It just means you aren’t destitute and are urbanized.

    The humanitarian mass migration of Africans to the US at the very least is finding the intended targets that the leftists planners had sought.

    • Replies: @PistolPete
    The brain drain occurring in Africa because of the West is really awful. Imagine them getting dumber? Sad

    Was talking to some liberal relatives about they're safari in south Africa. They were telling me about the safari tour guide, and how his sister was a neurosurgeon in Chicago. They were so joyful about such a success story coming from an African, and all I could think was "HOW AWFUL". Africa I am sure is in far more need of neurosurgeons than Chicago. Also, she will marry and have a family in the us, instead of Africa, which will lose out on her much needed brain power. Selfish if you think about it.
  42. This photograph shows soldiers of the Eight nations alliance in 1900. British and also American soldiers are taller than continental European and Asian soldiers. Left-to-right: Britain, United States, Australian, British India, Germany, France, Austria-Hungary, Italy, Japan.

    http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-european-men-01355.html

    Mentions a decline in infant mortality and smaller family sizes are linked to increasing height.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    When soldiers line up, they line up in order of height. Somehow, I doubt that those soldiers were picked to represent the height of the average soldier in their armies. The purpose of the photograph was perhaps merely to illustrate the militaries in the eight nation alliance.
  43. @Anatoly Karlin
    Any statistical evidence?

    No lack of proteins for South Koreans and Japanese, and yet they are still not tall at all.

    Anyway, Karlin, why do you need evidence?
    Isn’t wishful will enough to convince you?

  44. A moronic map. There’s no sudden 15-centimeter jump in height on the border between Estonia and Russia.

    I wonder how many more moronic mistakes the authors committed.

  45. @Anatoly Karlin
    Any statistical evidence?

    There isn’t any, of course. But there is some shaky circumstancial evidence from the study – SK women gained the most height over the century, and men were near the top as well. If that continues for a few more centuries and Scandinavians gain at their current pace…

  46. @Triumph104

    This photograph shows soldiers of the Eight nations alliance in 1900. British and also American soldiers are taller than continental European and Asian soldiers. Left-to-right: Britain, United States, Australian, British India, Germany, France, Austria-Hungary, Italy, Japan.
     
    http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-european-men-01355.html

    Mentions a decline in infant mortality and smaller family sizes are linked to increasing height.

    When soldiers line up, they line up in order of height. Somehow, I doubt that those soldiers were picked to represent the height of the average soldier in their armies. The purpose of the photograph was perhaps merely to illustrate the militaries in the eight nation alliance.

  47. Africans were taller when the colonial era ended in the 1960s. They may have lost height because of collapsing health care systems, rising population density and less dietary diversity among urbanites, the authors said.

    Barak Obama Sr’s generation of leadership.

  48. @EriK
    Never thought of Gore (6'1") or Jackson (6'3") as particularly tall. Comey is a giant, but I wouldn't call him a leftist.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-director-comey-calls-agencys-lack-of-diversity-a-crisis-1468426138

    An open-shut case of anti-white racism, he wants YT held to quotas. Like the Ivy League used to do with Jews. But of course, WCMs can’t be victims.

    • Replies: @EriK
    I never said he could be trusted.
  49. @sflicht
    Clicking through to the correct map (Figure 3) is actually quite interesting. Iran is a big outlier, with a much bigger increase in height than neighboring countries. Seems like there is a noteworthy colonialism/post-colonialism story. (Or perhaps an interesting Shia/Sunni story!)

    Libya is also a positive outlier, in another blow to American geopolitical storytelling.

    Scandinavia's height increase is much smaller than continental Europe's. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.

    Scandinavia’s height increase is much smaller than continental Europe’s. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.

    I’m wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.

    People tend to lose stature as they age, and lose relatively more if taller, compared to shorter people on average.

    Average heights in North America, Western Europe and Japan rose quickly in the 20th century, then plateaued or shrank slightly, the authors said.

    Aren’t these the greying aging horrifying societies that absolutely have to import a gazillion Third World “children” because they’re getting old and helpless and stupid and can’t figure out how to play Pokemon Go while driving and such?

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age…but that also gets interpreted as “obesity.”

    One might almost conclude that aging to the 70s and beyond is not terribly well understood, being so new to the human species and all.

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    Europe's ethnic cleansing is also effecting drowning stats. Sweden is having a record year.

    Many people overestimate their abilities, they think they’ll float without a lifejacket, or swim straight out into a lake, get tired and their nose gets closer to the surface of the water until they suck in water,” said Wernesten.

    An asylum seeker from Afghanistan was among those who died in drowning accidents this weekend. He perished in the Råneälv river in Norrbotten, northern Sweden, trying to save the life of his friend. Neither of the men could swim.
     
    , @Stan Adams

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age…but that also gets interpreted as “obesity.”
     
    I have observed that aging people of any ancestry can get a lot more messy as time goes along.

    Pull-ups and chucks aren't cheap.
    , @AnotherDad

    I’m wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.
     
    I haven't read the article but those maps are quite clearly tagged for 1896 and 1996 birth cohorts. Presumably there is good data for young adults now and was in 1916 with the Great War underway.

    Pretty much all sociological sampling is junk if you don't look at and compare cohorts, because age structure changes in the population affect all kinds of things--wealth, poverty, employment, fertility, household size, crime, etc. etc.
  50. @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    There are quite a few African students in my small city and yes they are all short. So are most of the Caribbean blacks we have here from our former colony for that matter.

    I really don’t understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.

    • Replies: @anon

    I really don’t understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.
     
    Sports I guess - basketball etc.
    , @AnotherDad

    I really don’t understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.
     
    True as stated. But the difference between American blacks and whites is a tiny fraction of an inch--i'm not going to bother to look it up, but what i remember is something like an eight of inch.

    The black\white difference is *not* anything anyone could notice in their day to day interactions--unlike the very noted and obvious difference between whites and Asians, and whites and Mexicans especially this is more recent wave of more Indio Mexicans\Central Americans. American has gotten noticeably shorter this past generation just due to immigration.

    ~~
    Now the *fact* that American blacks are pretty much the same size as American whites--that's just another of the many huge unearned bonuses blacks get from their ancestors being dragged here, giving today's blacks this golden opportunity to live in a white run country. So of course the blacks bitch about it...
  51. @Anon
    US Africans have a tradition of drinking refrigerated cows' milk, which is less common in Africa, and this gives US Africans a calcium-derived height advantage. The reason Europeans are taller than they used to be is because they started adding yogurt to their diet in the hippie 1970s. Traditionally, Europeans were (and some still are) very scornful of American-style milk swilling. Yogurt-eating has made Europeans a taller people. Africans who were raised from childhood in Europe also eat yogurt, and thus they're taller, too.

    Yoghurt eating made Europeans tall? Maybe in southern or eastern Europe. Definitely not in the Netherlands. We drink mostly milk. Always have been for that matter.

  52. @Anonymous
    " David Duke: Trump Left The Door Open To Supporting My Candidacy

    “So he did something, I think he felt like he did as much as he could do.” "

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/david-duke-trump-left-the-door-open-to-supporting-my-candida

    White nationalist and former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke says Donald Trump “did as much as he could” to leave the door open to supporting his Senate bid.

    On Meet The Press on Sunday, Trump was asked if he would support a Democrat over Duke. Trump answered, “I guess, depending on who the Democrat, but the answer would be yes.”

    During his radio show on Monday, Duke noted that Trump didn’t rule out support for his candidacy.

    “‘Would you vote for a Democrat against David Duke’ and Trump says, ‘well, I guess it depends who the Democrat will be so the answer is yes,’” Duke said. “You know, like maybe if there’s a good Democrat. But that’s not the answer they wanted and the headlines there were all over the place, you know, Trump basically said he could possibly vote, he could vote for David Duke if he was running against a liberal Democrat. So he did something, I think he felt like he did as much as he could do.”

    Duke said earlier in the program that he’s never in his political career seen his support as high as it was when he announced his candidacy for Senate as a Republican last week.

    “Since my declaration, I’ve never ever seen the level of overwhelming support in my whole political life as I received when I announced my candidacy for the United States Senate in Louisiana,” Duke said.

    Duke also reaffirmed his support for Trump in the broadcast.

    “I said to my people that they should support Donald Trump, I believe that absolutely with all my heart today because we have no other alternative than Donald Trump and I think he’s doing some great things for the party and for our people,” said Duke.
     

    Why is this loser trying to screw over Trump? He must be a down low cuck.

    • Replies: @Thea
    They want Hillary because she will be awful and finally force whites to wake up and revolt.
    , @anon
    always blame the media first and you'll be right 90% of the time
  53. The Netherlands owes its number one position in height among men to one province: Friesland, along the North Sea coast. Frisians bring up the Dutch average considerably. Without them, the Dutch average height would be lower than that of Denmark and, perhaps, some of the other Scandinavian countries.

  54. @whorefinder
    I've noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6'8" himself. Obama is 6'1", which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): "He's always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something."

    I've wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it's just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall---especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not---that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan--- I'd chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    Tall men don’t get mugged by reality as much.

    I strongly suspect that tall men are less likely to be victims of street crime. There are a lot of smug macho liberals who pride themselves of living in high crime neighborhoods and shame those who are afraid.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'm not a very imposing-looking 6'4", but I am 6'4" and it long ago occurred to me that that's an advantage walking the streets at night.
  55. @Contrarian
    Tall men don't get mugged by reality as much.

    I strongly suspect that tall men are less likely to be victims of street crime. There are a lot of smug macho liberals who pride themselves of living in high crime neighborhoods and shame those who are afraid.

    I’m not a very imposing-looking 6’4″, but I am 6’4″ and it long ago occurred to me that that’s an advantage walking the streets at night.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    One point I heard a while ago is that when large men get angry, people take it seriously, but when smaller men get angry, people dismiss their angry more readily. Arnold Schwarzenegger reportedly talked about the "authority of size", where simply his engorged muscles got him instant respect whenever he walked into a room.

    Of course, certain smaller men have made a career of overcoming their size differential and making themselves ferociously feared--almost because of it. Joe Pesci, James Cagney, and Edward G. Robinson all come to mind as guys who came off small in size but absolutely delivered the tough guy role. Mike Tyson is only 5'10" himself, but that never seemed to hurt him.

    , @Contrarian
    I am tall and athletic myself. With hindsight I now realize that I probably fended off several muggers over the years that I interpreted as obnoxious, aggressive beggars at the time.

    A gullible liberal may even feel sympathy in such situations and readily hand over money right away, so the mugger does not have to get aggressive in the first place.
    , @Olorin
    We call it the Cougar Principle--after our native mountain lion, OC.

    Like many wild creatures whose habit is overall shy, cougar may convert their fear or territoriality or etc. into an advance. Make yourself bigger suddenly (visually or audially) and generally they back down, though it may take a few repeats of the display till they give up trying.

    This is why we carry Cougar Sticks in certain back/high country at certain times of y ear. If they actually attack, those will be useless. (That's what the FNP is for.) But they so rarely do.

    The ability to make yourself seem big is one of nature's coolest tricks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBkWhkAZ9ds

    http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/How_8481f3_2926327.jpg

    The ability to actually grow big is pretty good too.

  56. @whorefinder
    Yeah, I can see that height is just something that works in getting you leadership position, and it's not worth fuming over, unless you want to be a miserable, hated turd. Maximize your strengths and become the best you can be and don't be jealous of others. Otherwise you'll end up like feminists who get pissed that the pretty girls get all the alpha males.

    I wonder if many of those "power behind the throne" types in history were just shorter dudes who needed a convincing face to lead people. Wasn't that how Charlemagne's family rose to power initially? I'm not saying Charlemagne was short, but maybe his ancestors were smaller than the kings and just moved in the shadows acquiring power and taller wives until they became legitimately tall/strong enough to dispense with the old kings.

    Food for thought.

    Charlemagne wasn’t short but his father, Pepin, was actually called “the Short”. Perhaps because he was particularly short or perhaps because he was merely shorter than the other warlords in France (Gaul) at the time.

    BTW, John Howard in Australia is not at all tall. And, because he wasn’t that impressive, he had to really fight to become his Party’s leader. But, on becoming Prime Minister, his tenacity and application helped him to become quite formidable.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    When it comes to height in men, it really is all relative.

    Rather like beauty in women.

  57. At 5’9 I feel pretty short for a millennial. They seem like they are visibly taller than any other age bracket. I think they grew up healthier than any other generation too. Probably in history

    I moved to Brazil when i was 10, and grew up very differently than Americans of my generation. Growing up I would leave the house when I woke up, and only come home late at night. Didn’t eat practically all day, only what what we could shop lift, so not getting nutrition I needed. Basically, a street urchin. Wasn’t poor or anything, just that is the freedom I had growing up. Also I started smoking and drinking at about thirteen, which definitely cost some height.

    I know kids my age in the US(I’m 24) absolutely did not grow up like that. They were supervised constantly, always well fed, bed on time , no tobacco, drugs and alcohol etc. That is my theory on my unimpressive height, and why millenials seem taller.

    Obviously the large amount of Central Americans, and Asians are skewing the numbers downwards. But white Americans arent shrinking.lol

  58. @Felix M
    Charlemagne wasn't short but his father, Pepin, was actually called "the Short". Perhaps because he was particularly short or perhaps because he was merely shorter than the other warlords in France (Gaul) at the time.

    BTW, John Howard in Australia is not at all tall. And, because he wasn't that impressive, he had to really fight to become his Party's leader. But, on becoming Prime Minister, his tenacity and application helped him to become quite formidable.

    When it comes to height in men, it really is all relative.

    Rather like beauty in women.

  59. @Anonymous
    To be in the top quarter of Africa is not much of a claim to wealth or privilege. It just means you aren't destitute and are urbanized.

    The humanitarian mass migration of Africans to the US at the very least is finding the intended targets that the leftists planners had sought.

    The brain drain occurring in Africa because of the West is really awful. Imagine them getting dumber? Sad

    Was talking to some liberal relatives about they’re safari in south Africa. They were telling me about the safari tour guide, and how his sister was a neurosurgeon in Chicago. They were so joyful about such a success story coming from an African, and all I could think was “HOW AWFUL”. Africa I am sure is in far more need of neurosurgeons than Chicago. Also, she will marry and have a family in the us, instead of Africa, which will lose out on her much needed brain power. Selfish if you think about it.

  60. As I recall, the Tutsi people were tall and Hutus short and squat. That seemed to be a source of resentment in Rwanda and the Hutus used machetes to narrow the height differential.

    The other day I commented on Fred Reed’s query as to ‘what’ if anything will be the Latino’s future in America. I didn’t see much of an issue with Columbians, Cubans and other more European Latins but noted it was hard to take seriously Central American mestizo/Indian adult men who were barely 5 feet tall.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Since when are Colombians "more European Latins"? Cuban-Americans, sure. But if you don't see much of an issue with them, you haven't been paying enough attention to the corrupt quagmire that is Miami.
  61. @Steve Sailer
    I'm not a very imposing-looking 6'4", but I am 6'4" and it long ago occurred to me that that's an advantage walking the streets at night.

    One point I heard a while ago is that when large men get angry, people take it seriously, but when smaller men get angry, people dismiss their angry more readily. Arnold Schwarzenegger reportedly talked about the “authority of size”, where simply his engorged muscles got him instant respect whenever he walked into a room.

    Of course, certain smaller men have made a career of overcoming their size differential and making themselves ferociously feared–almost because of it. Joe Pesci, James Cagney, and Edward G. Robinson all come to mind as guys who came off small in size but absolutely delivered the tough guy role. Mike Tyson is only 5’10” himself, but that never seemed to hurt him.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    My club doorman experience was that the short guy will swing much sooner than the big guy.
  62. I am German and I can agree on something in the map: looking at people under age 40 in Sweden and Germany there does not seem to be a difference in height (build-wise Germans seem to be bigger). But Swedish people over 60 are noticeably taller than Germans of the same age group. By subjective observation.

    I have a theory for that, because after World War II the intra-ethnic structure of Germans was mixed up and people from tall regions (traditionally the North and the West) started to have children with people from shorter regions, which reduced the a) the “inbreeding” range and b) height alleles seem to be more dominant in general.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    I can't find the source now, but I remember reading that the average height of males in a country declines as the result of a major war. It is possible that this happened to Germany (but not Sweden obviously), as a result of 1939-1945.
  63. @Steve Sailer
    I'm not a very imposing-looking 6'4", but I am 6'4" and it long ago occurred to me that that's an advantage walking the streets at night.

    I am tall and athletic myself. With hindsight I now realize that I probably fended off several muggers over the years that I interpreted as obnoxious, aggressive beggars at the time.

    A gullible liberal may even feel sympathy in such situations and readily hand over money right away, so the mugger does not have to get aggressive in the first place.

  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Apparently the average height of France and Corsica has topped 180cm – something Norwegian conscripts struggle to do ….

    Let me state for the record that I don’t believe it.

    If European countries can be so bad at recording their average heights; how much faith can we have in studies about blood pressure or IQ?

    • Replies: @NickG

    If European countries can be so bad at recording their average heights; how much faith can we have in studies about blood pressure or IQ?
     
    I dont believe it either, no way is the French average height 180 cm.

    I see that the British Army claims the average height of is 178 cm or 5 ft 10 inches. I don't believe that either.
  65. For once, Ctrl+F “Immig” yields results.

  66. @kaganovitch
    The really interesting question of course, is what effect the change in average height had on golf course architecture?

    The increase in height combined with changes to club and ball technology has had a dramatic and deleterious effect on golf course architecture. The players today are giants even when compared to a generation ago. Dustin Johnson is 6 foot 4. Vijay. Jhonny Vegas. There are still some top shortish men (Rory) but the ability to really make the ball go with a huge swing plus go straight with the ProV1 means golf courses have to get longer and longer. The new courses for the US Open (Chambers Bay, Erin Hills) are 8000 yards from the tips. Tall men benefit more because of longer arms create longer swing arcs and more clubhead speed. Look what happened at Augusta to “Tiger-proof” it:. More trees. Higher grass in the “second cut.”. Back tees. And they just bought land from Augausta CC next door for more back tees. Disgusting.

    Look what they did to Merion a few years back. Rough a foot high, fairways 20 yards across. There are few if any classic courses that can keep the top, tall men from shooting twenty under par or more. This is creating pressure for higher green speed to defend par. More long tee boxes. Unwalkable courses.

    The cat is out of the bad height wise. The easy fix is the ball.

  67. I’m tall, and when I was mugged it wasn’t height that saved the day, but hand-speed. I took his knife off him as he tried to plunge it into my heart.

  68. Intellectual cowardice? “they had not measured the effects of immigration from, for example, Central American countries with substantially shorter citizens”.

    Intellectual courage? “Africans were taller when the colonial era ended in the 1960s.”

    I think the second is courageous enough that the first can’t have been a matter of cowardice.

  69. @FKA Max

    Worldwide, iodine deficiency affects two billion people and is the leading preventable cause of intellectual and developmental disabilities.[1][2] According to public health experts, iodisation of salt may be the world's simplest and most cost-effective measure available to improve health, only costing US$0.05 per person per year.[1] At the World Summit for Children in 1990, a goal was set to eliminate iodine deficiency by 2000. At that time, 25% of households consumed iodised salt, a proportion that increased to 66% by 2006.[1]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodised_salt#In_public_health_initiatives

    We know that human growth hormone being secreted by our pituitary gland is the hormone responsible for growing taller, but there is another one important hormone that we need to consider if we want to increase our height. And that is the hormone being produced by our thyroid gland.

    Thyroid gland is the largest gland in our body. It is located at the neck inferior below thyroid cartilage (also known as adam's apple for men). Thyroid also helps to grow taller because the thyroxine hormone that this gland produce helps to regulate the body's metabolic rate and also control the rate of oxidation in our body. So, we need this gland to function properly for maximum height increase. If you just notice, this is why people or children with thyroid hormone deficiency don't get taller and always have impaired brain.

    Unlike pituitary gland that can be effected by many things to produce human growth hormone, the thyroid needs only one chemical element in order to function properly and that is the iodine.

     

    - http://ezinearticles.com/?Thyroid--Gland-Also-Helps-in-Growing-Taller&id=3114360

    Lynn and Rushton are not too concerned about what constitutes “White” and include North Africans and others who most theorists would not classify as “White”. The IQ of some countries, such as Australia, which has contributed more Nobel Prize winners than Japan, is a poor 98. But according to newspaper reports of televised Australian National IQ tests in 2002 , 2003 and 2004, the average Australian IQ score for a multiracial country was above 100. Men outscored women 112 to 108 and blondes (=Nordics) averaged 111 (which is greater than Lynn’s revised Ashkenazi Jewish average and also refutes the “dumb blonde” ideology of the media). People 181 to 200 cms tall (again predominately Nordics) averaged an IQ of 113.
     
    - http://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    FYI, You need to update your Nobel list by country, Japan has twice the Nobel winners as Australia, two-third’s of them since the year 2000, every one since then in the science Nobels. 16 winners in 15 years ( this years haven’t been awarded yet ). Obviously, Australia is still ahead per capita.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Thanks!
    I don't know if the author of that paper forgot to write *per capita* or if he just did not research his claim properly. His main hypothesis, that height and IQ correlate and that therefore high IQ is more common in tall Nordics, still holds up, in my opinion.

    Citing Nobel Prizes as evidence for a high IQ population is always a bit tricky and sketchy anyways, and I usually try to avoid this type of argumentation, since the Nobel has become highly politicized, etc.:

    MacDonald observes that Jews have received a disproportionate number of Nobel Prizes in all categories from 1901 to 1985. Likewise for other scientific and cultural awards. For those such as Lynn and Vanhanen [21] there is a high correlation between IQ and success, not only for individuals, but for entire nations. (Mean national IQ is said to correlate 0.71 with GNP Lynn and Vanhanen believe.) However considering the IQ of Jews, we would expect that the Jewish population would produce individuals with an IQ over 130 at four times the White rate. If the Jewish proportion of the US population is taken to be 3 per cent (absurdly low in our opinion) Jews should constitute 12 per cent of US high achievers. Instead of this Jews constitute 76 per cent of influential intellectuals, 30 per cent of the faculty at elite universities and 23 per cent of the wealthiest Americans.
    High IQ does not adequately explain success. It does not adequately explain the success of groups such as the Southern Italians who would generally have scored below average in IQ tests, yet have excelled in money-making in modern America, Australia and Canada through, if dishonest, hardcore (the Mafia) or softcore (tax evasion) criminal activities, or if honest, through good old-fashioned hard work for which Italians are renowned. [21] Dickens (et al) analyzed how much of the variance in income could be explained by scores on the Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT) (which Herrnstein and Murray believe is a better measure of IQ than other tests) and found that the AFQT could explain only 15 per cent of differences in income. [22]
     
    - https://thechosenites.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/refutation.pdf

    Here is what a wrote on another forum on the topic of 'genius', and how IQ, in my opinion, is just one component of 'genius':

    FKA Max
    July 12, 2016 - 11:01 am | Permalink

    Thank you, T.J..

    As I understood it, the author was arguing in this paper, that ‘genius’ is not merely a matter of intelligence, even though intelligence is a major component of it, but that ‘genius’ is a combination of intelligence plus creativity. Therefore it is tough to measure ‘geniusness’ and IQ tests therefore have a limited applicability in this field (I think you argued this point before as well in a little different context, in a short comment exchange we had about Christopher Langan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan on the topic of intelligence versus wisdom, where my argument was, that intelligence and wisdom always go hand in hand, but that there are plenty of very intelligent people, who lack wisdom, or can be outright evil, e.g. psychopaths. The same could be said about ‘genius’, in my opinion. Genius and high intelligence always come in a package, but there are plenty of highly intelligent people, who are not geniuses), but of course the probability to find and the frequency of geniuses increases in high IQ populations/groups, and so IQ tests are still a very valuable and important tool to figure out where to look for geniuses.

    By such reductionist accounts, present day computers, which even the strong programme in AI do not yet regard as “thinking machines”, are superior to humans. A present day non-thinking computer can be programmed to do better than humans (including East Asian and Jews) on many cognitive tests – remembering that computers can beat humans at chess. Further, we would also expect that “creativity” should be an essential part of “intelligence”. Yet IQ tests do not measure creativity and have never intended to: H.B. Lyman, “Test Scores and What They Mean”, (Allyn and bacon, Boston, 1998), p.41.

    – http://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I have argued before, that this creativity and genius (and also pathological altruism/idealism) common in Whites (Faustian Spirit) is attributable to light eye pigmentation (which suppresses the secretion of melatonin, and is not very common in Asians, thus their lack of creativity/genuises) plus a high IQ:

    Influence of eye colors of Caucasians and Asians on suppression of melatonin secretion by light.
    Higuchi S1, Motohashi Y, Ishibashi K, Maeda T.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17332164

    The percentage of suppression of melatonin secretion by light was calculated. The percentage of suppression of melatonin secretion 2 h after the start of light exposure was significantly larger in light-eyed Caucasians (88.9 +/- 4.2%) than in dark-eyed Asians (73.4 +/- 20.0%) (P < 0.01).

    Effect of Iris Pigmentation and Latitude on Chronotype and Sleep Timing

    Our group has previously noted three effects of light iris pigmentation in patients with seasonal affective disorder(summarized in Goel et al., 2002): (a) a larger summertime increase in photopic sensitivity than patients with darker pigmentation; (b) lower depression and fatigability scores in winter; and (c) earlier awakening during dawn simulation therapy

    – https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276058175_Effect_of_Iris_Pigmentation_and_Latitude_on_Chronotype_and_Sleep_Timing
     
    - http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/07/white-men-cant-jump-black-men-cant-shot-put/#comment-283170
  70. @InspectorKohl
    I am German and I can agree on something in the map: looking at people under age 40 in Sweden and Germany there does not seem to be a difference in height (build-wise Germans seem to be bigger). But Swedish people over 60 are noticeably taller than Germans of the same age group. By subjective observation.

    I have a theory for that, because after World War II the intra-ethnic structure of Germans was mixed up and people from tall regions (traditionally the North and the West) started to have children with people from shorter regions, which reduced the a) the "inbreeding" range and b) height alleles seem to be more dominant in general.

    I can’t find the source now, but I remember reading that the average height of males in a country declines as the result of a major war. It is possible that this happened to Germany (but not Sweden obviously), as a result of 1939-1945.

  71. @Michelle
    Yep, and it was a real good speech. Delivered perfectly. After all the filthy rich comedians and singer/songwriters. High I.Q., high talent elites. I could barely listen to the Republican convention. The liberals are smarter, but they hate me and my ilk, which is why I vote against them.

    What are you smoking? It was terrible, Booker is yet another talentless high yella closet case.

  72. @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    I’ve never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans?

    I’ve lived in South Africa for 23 yrs and travelled extensively around the sub-region and the answer is yes, very much so. I’m 179 cm (5 ft 11 in) and don’t often see blacks taller than me and most are quite a bit shorter.

    White South Africans tend to be tall and some of the Afrikaaners are huge.

  73. @Lot

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries
     
    I've never been to black Africa. Are they really much shorter than US whites and African Americans? Most of black Africa is about 5-5 for men and 5-1 for women for the 1996 birth cohort.

    The unskilled African laborers in the US (janitors and taxi drivers mostly) and the many African street peddlers and hustlers that are all over Europe do not seem to be short.

    This seems to indicate that US/Europe's supposedly humanitarian-motivated mass African migration is mostly coming from the top quarter or so of Africa's income distribution.

    It would also seem to indicate that we get the top quarter of the Indian population in the west. Most Indian immigrants seem to be just below average height relative to Westerners as far as I can tell. Their children tend to be noticeably taller though. Anecdotally, I know an Indian family on my street where the father is 5’7, at the most. His son is well over 6 feet.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I know a Sikh kid in the L.A. suburbs who is maybe 6'6".
  74. @Perspective
    It would also seem to indicate that we get the top quarter of the Indian population in the west. Most Indian immigrants seem to be just below average height relative to Westerners as far as I can tell. Their children tend to be noticeably taller though. Anecdotally, I know an Indian family on my street where the father is 5'7, at the most. His son is well over 6 feet.

    I know a Sikh kid in the L.A. suburbs who is maybe 6’6″.

  75. @whorefinder
    Gore and Jackson present very tall/big. 6'3" is very tall; professional sports tends to make us forget that while 6'6" is short for pro-baskebtall center, it's nearly a foot taller than a normal man.

    Comey is a leftist; he just admitted on national TV that Hillary Clinton is too powerful for him to prosecute, despite it being a crime for lesser people. He's admitted he's in the tank for the TPTB, which is Leftism in our society.

    How tall are you?

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    I have no human height, you trans-phobe.

    I identify as a 2016 Nissan Rogue. My pronouns are vroom/beep/vroom. I'm transmission.
  76. @Maj. Kong
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-director-comey-calls-agencys-lack-of-diversity-a-crisis-1468426138

    An open-shut case of anti-white racism, he wants YT held to quotas. Like the Ivy League used to do with Jews. But of course, WCMs can't be victims.

    I never said he could be trusted.

  77. @Anonymous
    Apparently the average height of France and Corsica has topped 180cm - something Norwegian conscripts struggle to do ....

    Let me state for the record that I don't believe it.

    If European countries can be so bad at recording their average heights; how much faith can we have in studies about blood pressure or IQ?

    If European countries can be so bad at recording their average heights; how much faith can we have in studies about blood pressure or IQ?

    I dont believe it either, no way is the French average height 180 cm.

    I see that the British Army claims the average height of is 178 cm or 5 ft 10 inches. I don’t believe that either.

  78. Is it true that even the whitest north Africans like the Kybile people are 1/5 to 1/4 subsaharan African? I mean if they really have that much SSA admixture how come Marion Cotillard looks like that?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No idea about Kabyle genetics, but as for the Cotillard question, plenty of quadroons look white, and, anyway, Marion Cotillard is only half Kabyle.
  79. @whorefinder
    I've noticed that many Leftists male leaders tend to be very tall. John Kerry, Comey, Al Gore, Jesse Jackson, etc. all tend to be extremely large and imposing physically. Lefty economist John Kenneth Galbraith was 6'8" himself. Obama is 6'1", which is taller than average, though not hugely so.

    Reminds me of a joke Ben Franklin said in the John Adams miniseries, when talking about George Washington (who himself was very tall): "He's always the tallest man in the room. He was bound to become the leader of something."

    I've wondered if the same is true for non-lefty leaders. If so, it's just human beings having an innate, instinctive reaction to choosing leaders by height. Presidents tend to be taller than average. The shorter ones often have their non-tallness noted in history (e.g. President U.S. Grant, who was average height for his time, was often noted for not being tall---especially in contrast to his battlefield opposite General Robert E. Lee, whose aristocratic height and bearing were noted and admired by everyone)

    If not---that is, it is only Lefty leaders who tend to be gargantuan--- I'd chalk it up to natural Lefty cowardice, who just bow down before the most physically intimidating dude around.

    In my lifetime my state has had governors ranging in height from uber-lefty Mike Dukakis (listed at 5’8″, in reality he looked my 5’4″ ex-wife in the eye) to the current guv, RINO Charlie Baker, listed at 6’6″ but, like Washington, the tallest guy in any room.

  80. There used to be a popular saying that, before Napoleon, the French were a race of tall men. I seem to remember Kevin MacDonald saying that French army conscripts from the Germanic North East recorded the highest average heights.

    • Replies: @IBC
    In Friedrich Engels' writing on the Crimean War, I think he describes French soldiers as being something like "small but nimble."
    , @dcite
    In the archives of the Dept. of Immigration, there are files (rejects mostly) of immigrants stalled at various entry ports of the U.S., 1900-1915. Each file had detailed descriptions of the subject, usually with a photo. The tallest Continentals were French pimps (who were not going as a contingent but were just random French pimps over a 15 year period) heading for bordellos in Montana and North Dakota. They were 5'11". Maybe it was a job requirement, because Frenchmen with other job skills were not so tall.

    Most of the Continental Europeans were predictably short. Men from the British Isles and Scandinavia were near today's standards, 5'7" to a few 6 footers. Many women from southern and eastern Europe, including Jewish, were as wide as high -- 4 feet, 10 inches, 160 pounds. That sort of figure.
  81. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    US Africans have a tradition of drinking refrigerated cows' milk, which is less common in Africa, and this gives US Africans a calcium-derived height advantage. The reason Europeans are taller than they used to be is because they started adding yogurt to their diet in the hippie 1970s. Traditionally, Europeans were (and some still are) very scornful of American-style milk swilling. Yogurt-eating has made Europeans a taller people. Africans who were raised from childhood in Europe also eat yogurt, and thus they're taller, too.

    US Africans have a tradition of drinking refrigerated cows’ milk…

    I’ve always been curious about this – if they’re c. 20% NW Euro on average what percentage are lactose tolerant? If it was higher than 20% that would be a thing.

    Traditionally, Europeans were (and some still are) very scornful of American-style milk swilling.

    Maybe in hotter southern Europe. In NW Europe people drink milk by the bucket full (although less so since the anti-fat fad in the 1970s).

    I drink around four pints a day.

  82. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan
    African countries and in South Asia over the century of analysis.
     
    This makes sense since those are the only two major areas where Malthusian dynamics still play a significant role.

    ***

    Fascinating (and a bit questionable?) that in the 1896 cohort males from modern day Russia were similar to, and from Ukraine and Belarus higher than, males from Germany and Great Britain. Back then the Russian Empire was at the Malthusian edge whereas advanced Western Europe had long broken free of it (even if nutrition was substandard amongst the urban proletariat). Selection bias? Most historical auxology relies on military records, but military recruitment systems weren't homogenous across Europe. I recall different figures from Baten though I'd have to check up on that.

    As you mention a lot of the records are military so it would depend a bit on recruitment methods.

    IIRC height among the urban poor declined during the industrial revolution so as the army was volunteer maybe that is skewing the results?

    IIRC Irish soldiers in this period were on average an inch taller.

    (alternatively more giant genes counter balancing the Malthusian aspect and bumping up the Russian average)

  83. @Almost Missouri
    I think the Near- and Middle-Eastern (Iran, Libya) height increase is due to the spread of petro-wealth. Note that Mexico and Venezuela have it too (height increase & petroleum).

    Shouldn’t Iran (and NW India) have a significant amount of northern genes – if so only held back by nutrition.

  84. @Michelle
    Asians are not genetically short. I now work with a phalanx of very, very tall young Asians. With large amounts of protein, Asians can get as tall as Scandinavians.

    Where from though?

    There may be regional differences e.g. north China vs south.

  85. @Olorin

    Scandinavia’s height increase is much smaller than continental Europe’s. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.
     
    I'm wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.

    People tend to lose stature as they age, and lose relatively more if taller, compared to shorter people on average.

    Average heights in North America, Western Europe and Japan rose quickly in the 20th century, then plateaued or shrank slightly, the authors said.
     

    Aren't these the greying aging horrifying societies that absolutely have to import a gazillion Third World "children" because they're getting old and helpless and stupid and can't figure out how to play Pokemon Go while driving and such?

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age...but that also gets interpreted as "obesity."

    One might almost conclude that aging to the 70s and beyond is not terribly well understood, being so new to the human species and all.

    Europe’s ethnic cleansing is also effecting drowning stats. Sweden is having a record year.

    Many people overestimate their abilities, they think they’ll float without a lifejacket, or swim straight out into a lake, get tired and their nose gets closer to the surface of the water until they suck in water,” said Wernesten.

    An asylum seeker from Afghanistan was among those who died in drowning accidents this weekend. He perished in the Råneälv river in Norrbotten, northern Sweden, trying to save the life of his friend. Neither of the men could swim.

  86. @Father O'Hara
    If I read this right,both Ireland and the UK were lite green in the first diagram,while Ireland is now darker green while the UK remains lite green. Are the Pakis pulling down the average?

    In British army records from 200-plus years ago, Irish recruits were actually taller than those born in England. I was thinking that it might have been due to a relative class difference in the recruitment pools, but genetic factors may have also had an influence.

  87. @PistolPete
    Why is this loser trying to screw over Trump? He must be a down low cuck.

    They want Hillary because she will be awful and finally force whites to wake up and revolt.

  88. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Broski
    Re the Flynn effect issue, one of the great objections of people aware of both HBD and game is that women are choosing the sexy but stupid/poor over the boring but smart/less poor. Thus, they suggest, welfare -- by allowing women to ride the "alpha cock carousel"without worrying about a man's earning potential -- would seem to facilitate IQs going down but height going up.

    It's true that the dumb are both more likely to receive welfare and to have bastard children (e.g., look at black America generally), with welfare exacerbating the fertility difference, which in isolation would seemingly suppress public IQ.

    No point here, just thoughts.

    one of the great objections of people aware of both HBD and game is that women are choosing the sexy but stupid/poor over the boring but smart/less poor

    No they’re not.

    The problem with “game” is they’re focused on getting casual sex rather than on reproduction so they’ve experimented and found that it’s easier to get casual sex from r-type women than k-type women and the way to do it is to behave like an r-type male.

    Yes – makes perfect sense.

    So it’s not nonsense but they stretch it too far – other people have been experimenting with getting reproduction out of k-type women for a long time and behaving like an r-type male doesn’t work – being a provider works (beta or otherwise).

    1) r-type != k-type
    2) casual sex != reproduction
    3) welfare underclass environment != “normal” environment

    (and if you’re a provider and alpha you get both lolz)

  89. @LondonBob
    There used to be a popular saying that, before Napoleon, the French were a race of tall men. I seem to remember Kevin MacDonald saying that French army conscripts from the Germanic North East recorded the highest average heights.

    In Friedrich Engels’ writing on the Crimean War, I think he describes French soldiers as being something like “small but nimble.”

  90. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @whorefinder
    Yeah, I can see that height is just something that works in getting you leadership position, and it's not worth fuming over, unless you want to be a miserable, hated turd. Maximize your strengths and become the best you can be and don't be jealous of others. Otherwise you'll end up like feminists who get pissed that the pretty girls get all the alpha males.

    I wonder if many of those "power behind the throne" types in history were just shorter dudes who needed a convincing face to lead people. Wasn't that how Charlemagne's family rose to power initially? I'm not saying Charlemagne was short, but maybe his ancestors were smaller than the kings and just moved in the shadows acquiring power and taller wives until they became legitimately tall/strong enough to dispense with the old kings.

    Food for thought.

    I wonder if many of those “power behind the throne” types in history were just shorter dudes who needed a convincing face to lead people.

    Quite likely imo – especially in a context where the leader has to physically fight.

    It’s always seemed to me the “natural” state of things would be the chief (leader) and the priest (adviser) rather than an all-in-one philosopher-king.

  91. @Unzerker
    There are quite a few African students in my small city and yes they are all short. So are most of the Caribbean blacks we have here from our former colony for that matter.

    I really don't understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.

    I really don’t understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.

    Sports I guess – basketball etc.

  92. @PistolPete
    Why is this loser trying to screw over Trump? He must be a down low cuck.

    always blame the media first and you’ll be right 90% of the time

  93. IBC says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Mao's big size was part of his leadership charisma.

    Xi Jinping is 5’11”. I remember NPR mocking Nicolas Sarkozy for his small size (5’5″) and I’ve heard similar criticisms of Putin, though his height is less unusual. Did you notice Margaret Thatcher’s height when you were standing and talking with her? I think people tend not to notice the height of “women” politicians unless they look like “little old ladies” (frail) or are exceptionally tall (potentially awkward looking).

  94. I don’t see any correlation between height and IQ, since most Galitzianers (Ashkenazi Jews from Galicia) that I have known have been quite short, about 5 feet, while several of the women have been certifiable candidates for Little People of America. Usually quite sharp. Tall Jews, and especially tall, slender Jews (as per stereotype) seem usually descended from Litvak or Yekke (Lithuanian or German) lines.

    This doesn’t have to do with actual birth country, BTW, since most Galitzianers migrated due west, either into Moravia, and from thence to Prague or Vienna, or to Breslau (Wroclaw) and from there into Germany proper.

    I also suspect that the great efflorescence of Jewish contributions to Western Civilization in the past two centuries was largely fueled by the exposure of the backward Galician Jews to higher civilization, sort of like the Scottish Enlightenment of the 18th century, and for the same reasons. IOW, it was strictly speaking a Galitzianer Enlightenment.

    I am 6’2″ but have never felt tall. I’d say I don’t even notice height between about 5’9″ and 6’5″. Being physically imposing depends a little bit on height, but a lot more on how large your frame is, quality of upper body musculature, voice of authority and personality. In other words, if you think you are short, work on the other qualities.

    Sometimes when I read the comments here I feel a lot of them are written by guys who have been romantically disappointed. Know this: All you need is a woman who is sweet and supportive, who will listen to you and laugh at your jokes, and who will deliver healthy children. This obsession with alphas/betas, beautiful women, and cock carousels is not healthy. Trust me, you don’t want to marry a good looking neurotic woman. You don’t even want to have sex with them.

    • Replies: @anon

    I don’t see any correlation between height and IQ, since most Galitzianers (Ashkenazi Jews from Galicia) that I have known have been quite short
     
    In my understanding it's a solid (if small) statistical thing so if you exclude Jews it would be bigger.

    The difference (imo) will be between general efficiency type genes that effect both brain development and height and specific genes that effect brain operation.
  95. @Steve Sailer
    I'm not a very imposing-looking 6'4", but I am 6'4" and it long ago occurred to me that that's an advantage walking the streets at night.

    We call it the Cougar Principle–after our native mountain lion, OC.

    Like many wild creatures whose habit is overall shy, cougar may convert their fear or territoriality or etc. into an advance. Make yourself bigger suddenly (visually or audially) and generally they back down, though it may take a few repeats of the display till they give up trying.

    This is why we carry Cougar Sticks in certain back/high country at certain times of y ear. If they actually attack, those will be useless. (That’s what the FNP is for.) But they so rarely do.

    The ability to make yourself seem big is one of nature’s coolest tricks.


    The ability to actually grow big is pretty good too.

  96. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @SPMoore8
    I don't see any correlation between height and IQ, since most Galitzianers (Ashkenazi Jews from Galicia) that I have known have been quite short, about 5 feet, while several of the women have been certifiable candidates for Little People of America. Usually quite sharp. Tall Jews, and especially tall, slender Jews (as per stereotype) seem usually descended from Litvak or Yekke (Lithuanian or German) lines.

    This doesn't have to do with actual birth country, BTW, since most Galitzianers migrated due west, either into Moravia, and from thence to Prague or Vienna, or to Breslau (Wroclaw) and from there into Germany proper.

    I also suspect that the great efflorescence of Jewish contributions to Western Civilization in the past two centuries was largely fueled by the exposure of the backward Galician Jews to higher civilization, sort of like the Scottish Enlightenment of the 18th century, and for the same reasons. IOW, it was strictly speaking a Galitzianer Enlightenment.

    I am 6'2" but have never felt tall. I'd say I don't even notice height between about 5'9" and 6'5". Being physically imposing depends a little bit on height, but a lot more on how large your frame is, quality of upper body musculature, voice of authority and personality. In other words, if you think you are short, work on the other qualities.

    Sometimes when I read the comments here I feel a lot of them are written by guys who have been romantically disappointed. Know this: All you need is a woman who is sweet and supportive, who will listen to you and laugh at your jokes, and who will deliver healthy children. This obsession with alphas/betas, beautiful women, and cock carousels is not healthy. Trust me, you don't want to marry a good looking neurotic woman. You don't even want to have sex with them.

    I don’t see any correlation between height and IQ, since most Galitzianers (Ashkenazi Jews from Galicia) that I have known have been quite short

    In my understanding it’s a solid (if small) statistical thing so if you exclude Jews it would be bigger.

    The difference (imo) will be between general efficiency type genes that effect both brain development and height and specific genes that effect brain operation.

  97. Height is the signature of IndoEuropeans. The people of the Dinaric Alps, being the least short, are likely the least altered of the original Indo Europeans, the Yamnaya’.

    The Yanmaya morphed into the Corded War culture and then became a major component of modern north Europeans (a bit shorter and a lot whiter, blonder and lighter eyed).

    Raiding, probably aided by plague , which the Yamnaya brought into Europe, so weakened its population that the entire north fell victim to a rolling wave of conquest. There is no doubt that women were appropriated and even if the conquered women were merely raped and killed the position of women in Corded Ware society would be affected by the easy availability of desirable women.

    I think the Dutch and north Europeans are the end result of some incorporation of indigenous genes into the conquering interlopers, but also a wave of sexual selection within the advancing Indo Europeans, who came to have the colouring, light skin and craniofacial form of the people they were exterminating, and had even came to exceed the vanquished in those characteristics by the time the leading edge of the Indo European conquest reached Sweden and Latvia.

    • Replies: @anon

    Height is the signature of IndoEuropeans. The people of the Dinaric Alps, being the least short, are likely the least altered of the original Indo Europeans
     
    I think it's a signature of archaic/paleo ancestry which is a component of IE hence the distribution: swampy refuges of Atlantic coast (Holland, Baltics), mountainous refuges (Scandinavia, Dinaric Alps) plus a general smattering everywhere the IE spread (Europe, Persia, NW India etc).

    I think the mammoth hunters needed to be big boys.

    (On top of that I'd say the paleo height genes can't fully compensate for bad diet so a region with those genes still needs to have a decent diet also possibly explaining places like Iran.)
  98. @Hodag
    Were there not famines in both Persia/Iran and Korea in the early 20th century?

    The Korean Americans that grew up in America were generally taller than most other Asians.

    I keep repeating this story but our parish let in a South Vietnamese family who were able to fly out (father was an officer, got wife and four kids on a plane to the US, had some real pull...he was a janitor at the grade school. Did it with a smile.). Anyway the oldest son showed up at age five and got the American diet of meat and milk, could dunk a basketball in eighth grade. Older sister never topped 5 foot. 2 of the four kids now called Dr. Tran.

    The impact of diet ….

    I recall the stories of what happened to the height of children in Japan after its surrender and occupation by US forces at the end of WWII. The US forces brought milk and meat to Japan to supplement a traditional rice and fish diet … as the story goes. The height of some Japanese youth sored when compared to previous generations. I met the son of a Japanese immigrant who worked at the US university I attended in the 1960s. He was of the right age to have benefited from this change in diet after WWII. He was very tall; he was enormous!

    This would fit into the observation that the average heights in some sub-Saharan countries declined at the end of the colonial era due to a decline in health care, social services, and diet. This would also suggest that the impact of colonialism on indigenous populations was not always negative.

  99. @Olorin

    Scandinavia’s height increase is much smaller than continental Europe’s. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.
     
    I'm wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.

    People tend to lose stature as they age, and lose relatively more if taller, compared to shorter people on average.

    Average heights in North America, Western Europe and Japan rose quickly in the 20th century, then plateaued or shrank slightly, the authors said.
     

    Aren't these the greying aging horrifying societies that absolutely have to import a gazillion Third World "children" because they're getting old and helpless and stupid and can't figure out how to play Pokemon Go while driving and such?

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age...but that also gets interpreted as "obesity."

    One might almost conclude that aging to the 70s and beyond is not terribly well understood, being so new to the human species and all.

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age…but that also gets interpreted as “obesity.”

    I have observed that aging people of any ancestry can get a lot more messy as time goes along.

    Pull-ups and chucks aren’t cheap.

  100. @Unladen Swallow
    FYI, You need to update your Nobel list by country, Japan has twice the Nobel winners as Australia, two-third's of them since the year 2000, every one since then in the science Nobels. 16 winners in 15 years ( this years haven't been awarded yet ). Obviously, Australia is still ahead per capita.

    Thanks!
    I don’t know if the author of that paper forgot to write *per capita* or if he just did not research his claim properly. His main hypothesis, that height and IQ correlate and that therefore high IQ is more common in tall Nordics, still holds up, in my opinion.

    Citing Nobel Prizes as evidence for a high IQ population is always a bit tricky and sketchy anyways, and I usually try to avoid this type of argumentation, since the Nobel has become highly politicized, etc.:

    MacDonald observes that Jews have received a disproportionate number of Nobel Prizes in all categories from 1901 to 1985. Likewise for other scientific and cultural awards. For those such as Lynn and Vanhanen [21] there is a high correlation between IQ and success, not only for individuals, but for entire nations. (Mean national IQ is said to correlate 0.71 with GNP Lynn and Vanhanen believe.) However considering the IQ of Jews, we would expect that the Jewish population would produce individuals with an IQ over 130 at four times the White rate. If the Jewish proportion of the US population is taken to be 3 per cent (absurdly low in our opinion) Jews should constitute 12 per cent of US high achievers. Instead of this Jews constitute 76 per cent of influential intellectuals, 30 per cent of the faculty at elite universities and 23 per cent of the wealthiest Americans.
    High IQ does not adequately explain success. It does not adequately explain the success of groups such as the Southern Italians who would generally have scored below average in IQ tests, yet have excelled in money-making in modern America, Australia and Canada through, if dishonest, hardcore (the Mafia) or softcore (tax evasion) criminal activities, or if honest, through good old-fashioned hard work for which Italians are renowned. [21] Dickens (et al) analyzed how much of the variance in income could be explained by scores on the Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT) (which Herrnstein and Murray believe is a better measure of IQ than other tests) and found that the AFQT could explain only 15 per cent of differences in income. [22]

    https://thechosenites.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/refutation.pdf

    Here is what a wrote on another forum on the topic of ‘genius’, and how IQ, in my opinion, is just one component of ‘genius’:

    FKA Max
    July 12, 2016 – 11:01 am | Permalink

    Thank you, T.J..

    As I understood it, the author was arguing in this paper, that ‘genius’ is not merely a matter of intelligence, even though intelligence is a major component of it, but that ‘genius’ is a combination of intelligence plus creativity. Therefore it is tough to measure ‘geniusness’ and IQ tests therefore have a limited applicability in this field (I think you argued this point before as well in a little different context, in a short comment exchange we had about Christopher Langan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan on the topic of intelligence versus wisdom, where my argument was, that intelligence and wisdom always go hand in hand, but that there are plenty of very intelligent people, who lack wisdom, or can be outright evil, e.g. psychopaths. The same could be said about ‘genius’, in my opinion. Genius and high intelligence always come in a package, but there are plenty of highly intelligent people, who are not geniuses), but of course the probability to find and the frequency of geniuses increases in high IQ populations/groups, and so IQ tests are still a very valuable and important tool to figure out where to look for geniuses.

    By such reductionist accounts, present day computers, which even the strong programme in AI do not yet regard as “thinking machines”, are superior to humans. A present day non-thinking computer can be programmed to do better than humans (including East Asian and Jews) on many cognitive tests – remembering that computers can beat humans at chess. Further, we would also expect that “creativity” should be an essential part of “intelligence”. Yet IQ tests do not measure creativity and have never intended to: H.B. Lyman, “Test Scores and What They Mean”, (Allyn and bacon, Boston, 1998), p.41.

    http://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I have argued before, that this creativity and genius (and also pathological altruism/idealism) common in Whites (Faustian Spirit) is attributable to light eye pigmentation (which suppresses the secretion of melatonin, and is not very common in Asians, thus their lack of creativity/genuises) plus a high IQ:

    Influence of eye colors of Caucasians and Asians on suppression of melatonin secretion by light.
    Higuchi S1, Motohashi Y, Ishibashi K, Maeda T.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17332164

    The percentage of suppression of melatonin secretion by light was calculated. The percentage of suppression of melatonin secretion 2 h after the start of light exposure was significantly larger in light-eyed Caucasians (88.9 +/- 4.2%) than in dark-eyed Asians (73.4 +/- 20.0%) (P < 0.01).

    Effect of Iris Pigmentation and Latitude on Chronotype and Sleep Timing

    Our group has previously noted three effects of light iris pigmentation in patients with seasonal affective disorder(summarized in Goel et al., 2002): (a) a larger summertime increase in photopic sensitivity than patients with darker pigmentation; (b) lower depression and fatigability scores in winter; and (c) earlier awakening during dawn simulation therapy

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276058175_Effect_of_Iris_Pigmentation_and_Latitude_on_Chronotype_and_Sleep_Timing

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/07/white-men-cant-jump-black-men-cant-shot-put/#comment-283170

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I came across some interesting research, that might be relevant to this post, in explaining why there are differences in height and body size besides genetics and nutrition, namely due to temperature. Maybe this explains why Americans of Northern European descent, who have ''tall genes'' and do not suffer from malnutrition (especially if they have lived in the warmer southern states for generations), might still be shorter than their northern cousins (this is speculation on my part, since I have not found any data on height differences between Americans of Northern European descent depending where they live in the United States). Maybe not all the slowdown in average American height compared to Northern Europeans, who live in colder climates/temperatures, is due to the increased immigration of short South Americans into the U.S.? I still believe though, that immigration of shorter people is the main driver of this trend/decline:

    Tests of ecogeographical relationships in a non-native species: what rules avian morphology?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26936361


    Abstract

    The capacity of non-native species to undergo rapid adaptive change provides opportunities to research contemporary evolution through natural experiments. This capacity is particularly true when considering ecogeographical rules, to which non-native species have been shown to conform within relatively short periods of time. Ecogeographical rules explain predictable spatial patterns of morphology, physiology, life history and behaviour. We tested whether Australian populations of non-native starling, Sturnus vulgaris, introduced to the country approximately 150 years ago, exhibited predicted environmental clines in body size, appendage size and heart size (Bergmann's, Allen's and Hesse's rules, respectively). Adult starlings (n = 411) were collected from 28 localities from across eastern Australia from 2011 to 2012. Linear models were constructed to examine the relationships between morphology and local environment. Patterns of variation in body mass and bill surface area were consistent with Bergmann's and Allen's rules, respectively (small body size and larger bill size in warmer climates), with maximum summer temperature being a strongly weighted predictor of both variables.[my emphasis] In the only intraspecific test of Hesse's rule in birds to date, we found no evidence to support the idea that relative heart size will be larger in individuals which live in colder climates. Our study does provide evidence that maximum temperature is a strong driver of morphological adaptation for starlings in Australia. The changes in morphology presented here demonstrate the potential for avian species to make rapid adaptive changes in relation to a changing climate to ameliorate the effects of heat stress. [my emphasis]
     
    PS: I saw a typo in my above comment. It was supposed to say: Here is what *I* wrote on another forum on the topic of ‘genius’...
  101. @Anonymous
    Is it true that even the whitest north Africans like the Kybile people are 1/5 to 1/4 subsaharan African? I mean if they really have that much SSA admixture how come Marion Cotillard looks like that?

    No idea about Kabyle genetics, but as for the Cotillard question, plenty of quadroons look white, and, anyway, Marion Cotillard is only half Kabyle.

  102. @unit472
    As I recall, the Tutsi people were tall and Hutus short and squat. That seemed to be a source of resentment in Rwanda and the Hutus used machetes to narrow the height differential.

    The other day I commented on Fred Reed's query as to 'what' if anything will be the Latino's future in America. I didn't see much of an issue with Columbians, Cubans and other more European Latins but noted it was hard to take seriously Central American mestizo/Indian adult men who were barely 5 feet tall.

    Since when are Colombians “more European Latins”? Cuban-Americans, sure. But if you don’t see much of an issue with them, you haven’t been paying enough attention to the corrupt quagmire that is Miami.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And speaking of the vibrant Latinx rainbow, why are there so many white (and black) Cubans? There was a discussion in a recent post about the reasons behind the mestization of Latin America, which made me wonder about Cuba. Why was the racial divide in Cuba different?
  103. @Anonymous
    Since when are Colombians "more European Latins"? Cuban-Americans, sure. But if you don't see much of an issue with them, you haven't been paying enough attention to the corrupt quagmire that is Miami.

    And speaking of the vibrant Latinx rainbow, why are there so many white (and black) Cubans? There was a discussion in a recent post about the reasons behind the mestization of Latin America, which made me wonder about Cuba. Why was the racial divide in Cuba different?

  104. @Olorin

    Scandinavia’s height increase is much smaller than continental Europe’s. The Vikings were already tall, so maybe not too much to read into this about Viking-style social democracy.
     
    I'm wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.

    People tend to lose stature as they age, and lose relatively more if taller, compared to shorter people on average.

    Average heights in North America, Western Europe and Japan rose quickly in the 20th century, then plateaued or shrank slightly, the authors said.
     

    Aren't these the greying aging horrifying societies that absolutely have to import a gazillion Third World "children" because they're getting old and helpless and stupid and can't figure out how to play Pokemon Go while driving and such?

    Similarly, aging people of Northern ancestry can get more massy (I mean massy, not obese) as we age...but that also gets interpreted as "obesity."

    One might almost conclude that aging to the 70s and beyond is not terribly well understood, being so new to the human species and all.

    I’m wondering whether they controlled for age in these populations.

    I haven’t read the article but those maps are quite clearly tagged for 1896 and 1996 birth cohorts. Presumably there is good data for young adults now and was in 1916 with the Great War underway.

    Pretty much all sociological sampling is junk if you don’t look at and compare cohorts, because age structure changes in the population affect all kinds of things–wealth, poverty, employment, fertility, household size, crime, etc. etc.

  105. @Unzerker
    There are quite a few African students in my small city and yes they are all short. So are most of the Caribbean blacks we have here from our former colony for that matter.

    I really don't understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.

    I really don’t understand where this idea that black people are tall comes from. Even in America blacks are shorter than whites.

    True as stated. But the difference between American blacks and whites is a tiny fraction of an inch–i’m not going to bother to look it up, but what i remember is something like an eight of inch.

    The black\white difference is *not* anything anyone could notice in their day to day interactions–unlike the very noted and obvious difference between whites and Asians, and whites and Mexicans especially this is more recent wave of more Indio Mexicans\Central Americans. American has gotten noticeably shorter this past generation just due to immigration.

    ~~
    Now the *fact* that American blacks are pretty much the same size as American whites–that’s just another of the many huge unearned bonuses blacks get from their ancestors being dragged here, giving today’s blacks this golden opportunity to live in a white run country. So of course the blacks bitch about it…

  106. The Latvian NBA player Kristaps Porzingis is something like 7’3″. His heritage is this self-isolating group of people in Western Latvia (Couronia). When he was around three, his family went through a tough time during the Soviet collapse, and they couldn’t afford good food, so his mom (who is also tall and a basketball player herself) fed him gravy.

    Per capita, the Baltics are also among Top 10 in the world in producing female models. For instance, Ieva Laguna also comes from Couronia, exactly the same place where I spent my summers as a child and unlike Kristaps Porzingis, we always had good organic food. She is something like 5’9″ or 5’10’.

    These maps are interesting, but our sources say that Latvian women only grew by 6cms in height over the century. And I’ve always had the impression that Lithuanians are taller than Latvians.

  107. Height changes ? Really Sailer ?

  108. Using the years 1896 and 1996 gives you a nice round century, unfortunately it disguises as much as it reveals because such a large span misses several trends. The reason why America has slid down the literal scale is because since the late 1950’s, American men have stopped growing taller and American women are actually slightly shorter than they were a half century ago. The big “I” word that the media seems to avoid using doesn’t actually explain it all away.

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/04/05/the-height-gap

    Even using surveys that deliberately omit Hispanic and Asian immigrants by targeting native born English speaking households Americans simply haven’t gotten taller following WW2 even though Europe did.

  109. @LondonBob
    There used to be a popular saying that, before Napoleon, the French were a race of tall men. I seem to remember Kevin MacDonald saying that French army conscripts from the Germanic North East recorded the highest average heights.

    In the archives of the Dept. of Immigration, there are files (rejects mostly) of immigrants stalled at various entry ports of the U.S., 1900-1915. Each file had detailed descriptions of the subject, usually with a photo. The tallest Continentals were French pimps (who were not going as a contingent but were just random French pimps over a 15 year period) heading for bordellos in Montana and North Dakota. They were 5’11”. Maybe it was a job requirement, because Frenchmen with other job skills were not so tall.

    Most of the Continental Europeans were predictably short. Men from the British Isles and Scandinavia were near today’s standards, 5’7″ to a few 6 footers. Many women from southern and eastern Europe, including Jewish, were as wide as high — 4 feet, 10 inches, 160 pounds. That sort of figure.

  110. @EriK
    How tall are you?

    I have no human height, you trans-phobe.

    I identify as a 2016 Nissan Rogue. My pronouns are vroom/beep/vroom. I’m transmission.

    • Replies: @EriK
    WTF?
  111. @whorefinder
    One point I heard a while ago is that when large men get angry, people take it seriously, but when smaller men get angry, people dismiss their angry more readily. Arnold Schwarzenegger reportedly talked about the "authority of size", where simply his engorged muscles got him instant respect whenever he walked into a room.

    Of course, certain smaller men have made a career of overcoming their size differential and making themselves ferociously feared--almost because of it. Joe Pesci, James Cagney, and Edward G. Robinson all come to mind as guys who came off small in size but absolutely delivered the tough guy role. Mike Tyson is only 5'10" himself, but that never seemed to hurt him.

    My club doorman experience was that the short guy will swing much sooner than the big guy.

  112. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    Height is the signature of IndoEuropeans. The people of the Dinaric Alps, being the least short, are likely the least altered of the original Indo Europeans, the Yamnaya'.

    The Yanmaya morphed into the Corded War culture and then became a major component of modern north Europeans (a bit shorter and a lot whiter, blonder and lighter eyed).

    Raiding, probably aided by plague , which the Yamnaya brought into Europe, so weakened its population that the entire north fell victim to a rolling wave of conquest. There is no doubt that women were appropriated and even if the conquered women were merely raped and killed the position of women in Corded Ware society would be affected by the easy availability of desirable women.

    I think the Dutch and north Europeans are the end result of some incorporation of indigenous genes into the conquering interlopers, but also a wave of sexual selection within the advancing Indo Europeans, who came to have the colouring, light skin and craniofacial form of the people they were exterminating, and had even came to exceed the vanquished in those characteristics by the time the leading edge of the Indo European conquest reached Sweden and Latvia.

    Height is the signature of IndoEuropeans. The people of the Dinaric Alps, being the least short, are likely the least altered of the original Indo Europeans

    I think it’s a signature of archaic/paleo ancestry which is a component of IE hence the distribution: swampy refuges of Atlantic coast (Holland, Baltics), mountainous refuges (Scandinavia, Dinaric Alps) plus a general smattering everywhere the IE spread (Europe, Persia, NW India etc).

    I think the mammoth hunters needed to be big boys.

    (On top of that I’d say the paleo height genes can’t fully compensate for bad diet so a region with those genes still needs to have a decent diet also possibly explaining places like Iran.)

    • Replies: @Sean
    A lot of hominids were surprisingly tall. The early humans in Europe were very large, with huge heads (a marker for selection for aggression) and probably were in male male competition for mates, but there was a real reduction in the Magdelenian period, which also saw craniofacial reduction as evidenced by the first impacted wisdom tooth ever anywhere. The first farmers were taller than the indigenous hunter gathers and contributed genes for that. The Yamnaya were much taller still (and they carried plague).

    The Yamana exterminated the population of North Europe and tall Germans seem very very tall to me. I think that height is not from the hunter gatherers but the Yamnaya. The blonde hair ect in Northerner Europe is clearly sexual selection and we know that the Hamnaya treated conquered women like cattle (animal husbandry). The position of Yamnaya women would have been altered and that likely caused them to be sexually selected.

  113. @FKA Max
    Thanks!
    I don't know if the author of that paper forgot to write *per capita* or if he just did not research his claim properly. His main hypothesis, that height and IQ correlate and that therefore high IQ is more common in tall Nordics, still holds up, in my opinion.

    Citing Nobel Prizes as evidence for a high IQ population is always a bit tricky and sketchy anyways, and I usually try to avoid this type of argumentation, since the Nobel has become highly politicized, etc.:

    MacDonald observes that Jews have received a disproportionate number of Nobel Prizes in all categories from 1901 to 1985. Likewise for other scientific and cultural awards. For those such as Lynn and Vanhanen [21] there is a high correlation between IQ and success, not only for individuals, but for entire nations. (Mean national IQ is said to correlate 0.71 with GNP Lynn and Vanhanen believe.) However considering the IQ of Jews, we would expect that the Jewish population would produce individuals with an IQ over 130 at four times the White rate. If the Jewish proportion of the US population is taken to be 3 per cent (absurdly low in our opinion) Jews should constitute 12 per cent of US high achievers. Instead of this Jews constitute 76 per cent of influential intellectuals, 30 per cent of the faculty at elite universities and 23 per cent of the wealthiest Americans.
    High IQ does not adequately explain success. It does not adequately explain the success of groups such as the Southern Italians who would generally have scored below average in IQ tests, yet have excelled in money-making in modern America, Australia and Canada through, if dishonest, hardcore (the Mafia) or softcore (tax evasion) criminal activities, or if honest, through good old-fashioned hard work for which Italians are renowned. [21] Dickens (et al) analyzed how much of the variance in income could be explained by scores on the Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT) (which Herrnstein and Murray believe is a better measure of IQ than other tests) and found that the AFQT could explain only 15 per cent of differences in income. [22]
     
    - https://thechosenites.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/refutation.pdf

    Here is what a wrote on another forum on the topic of 'genius', and how IQ, in my opinion, is just one component of 'genius':

    FKA Max
    July 12, 2016 - 11:01 am | Permalink

    Thank you, T.J..

    As I understood it, the author was arguing in this paper, that ‘genius’ is not merely a matter of intelligence, even though intelligence is a major component of it, but that ‘genius’ is a combination of intelligence plus creativity. Therefore it is tough to measure ‘geniusness’ and IQ tests therefore have a limited applicability in this field (I think you argued this point before as well in a little different context, in a short comment exchange we had about Christopher Langan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan on the topic of intelligence versus wisdom, where my argument was, that intelligence and wisdom always go hand in hand, but that there are plenty of very intelligent people, who lack wisdom, or can be outright evil, e.g. psychopaths. The same could be said about ‘genius’, in my opinion. Genius and high intelligence always come in a package, but there are plenty of highly intelligent people, who are not geniuses), but of course the probability to find and the frequency of geniuses increases in high IQ populations/groups, and so IQ tests are still a very valuable and important tool to figure out where to look for geniuses.

    By such reductionist accounts, present day computers, which even the strong programme in AI do not yet regard as “thinking machines”, are superior to humans. A present day non-thinking computer can be programmed to do better than humans (including East Asian and Jews) on many cognitive tests – remembering that computers can beat humans at chess. Further, we would also expect that “creativity” should be an essential part of “intelligence”. Yet IQ tests do not measure creativity and have never intended to: H.B. Lyman, “Test Scores and What They Mean”, (Allyn and bacon, Boston, 1998), p.41.

    – http://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I have argued before, that this creativity and genius (and also pathological altruism/idealism) common in Whites (Faustian Spirit) is attributable to light eye pigmentation (which suppresses the secretion of melatonin, and is not very common in Asians, thus their lack of creativity/genuises) plus a high IQ:

    Influence of eye colors of Caucasians and Asians on suppression of melatonin secretion by light.
    Higuchi S1, Motohashi Y, Ishibashi K, Maeda T.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17332164

    The percentage of suppression of melatonin secretion by light was calculated. The percentage of suppression of melatonin secretion 2 h after the start of light exposure was significantly larger in light-eyed Caucasians (88.9 +/- 4.2%) than in dark-eyed Asians (73.4 +/- 20.0%) (P < 0.01).

    Effect of Iris Pigmentation and Latitude on Chronotype and Sleep Timing

    Our group has previously noted three effects of light iris pigmentation in patients with seasonal affective disorder(summarized in Goel et al., 2002): (a) a larger summertime increase in photopic sensitivity than patients with darker pigmentation; (b) lower depression and fatigability scores in winter; and (c) earlier awakening during dawn simulation therapy

    – https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276058175_Effect_of_Iris_Pigmentation_and_Latitude_on_Chronotype_and_Sleep_Timing
     
    - http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/07/white-men-cant-jump-black-men-cant-shot-put/#comment-283170

    I came across some interesting research, that might be relevant to this post, in explaining why there are differences in height and body size besides genetics and nutrition, namely due to temperature. Maybe this explains why Americans of Northern European descent, who have ”tall genes” and do not suffer from malnutrition (especially if they have lived in the warmer southern states for generations), might still be shorter than their northern cousins (this is speculation on my part, since I have not found any data on height differences between Americans of Northern European descent depending where they live in the United States). Maybe not all the slowdown in average American height compared to Northern Europeans, who live in colder climates/temperatures, is due to the increased immigration of short South Americans into the U.S.? I still believe though, that immigration of shorter people is the main driver of this trend/decline:

    Tests of ecogeographical relationships in a non-native species: what rules avian morphology?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26936361

    Abstract

    The capacity of non-native species to undergo rapid adaptive change provides opportunities to research contemporary evolution through natural experiments. This capacity is particularly true when considering ecogeographical rules, to which non-native species have been shown to conform within relatively short periods of time. Ecogeographical rules explain predictable spatial patterns of morphology, physiology, life history and behaviour. We tested whether Australian populations of non-native starling, Sturnus vulgaris, introduced to the country approximately 150 years ago, exhibited predicted environmental clines in body size, appendage size and heart size (Bergmann’s, Allen’s and Hesse’s rules, respectively). Adult starlings (n = 411) were collected from 28 localities from across eastern Australia from 2011 to 2012. Linear models were constructed to examine the relationships between morphology and local environment. Patterns of variation in body mass and bill surface area were consistent with Bergmann’s and Allen’s rules, respectively (small body size and larger bill size in warmer climates), with maximum summer temperature being a strongly weighted predictor of both variables.[my emphasis] In the only intraspecific test of Hesse’s rule in birds to date, we found no evidence to support the idea that relative heart size will be larger in individuals which live in colder climates. Our study does provide evidence that maximum temperature is a strong driver of morphological adaptation for starlings in Australia. The changes in morphology presented here demonstrate the potential for avian species to make rapid adaptive changes in relation to a changing climate to ameliorate the effects of heat stress. [my emphasis]

    PS: I saw a typo in my above comment. It was supposed to say: Here is what *I* wrote on another forum on the topic of ‘genius’…

  114. @whorefinder
    I have no human height, you trans-phobe.

    I identify as a 2016 Nissan Rogue. My pronouns are vroom/beep/vroom. I'm transmission.

    WTF?

  115. @anon

    Height is the signature of IndoEuropeans. The people of the Dinaric Alps, being the least short, are likely the least altered of the original Indo Europeans
     
    I think it's a signature of archaic/paleo ancestry which is a component of IE hence the distribution: swampy refuges of Atlantic coast (Holland, Baltics), mountainous refuges (Scandinavia, Dinaric Alps) plus a general smattering everywhere the IE spread (Europe, Persia, NW India etc).

    I think the mammoth hunters needed to be big boys.

    (On top of that I'd say the paleo height genes can't fully compensate for bad diet so a region with those genes still needs to have a decent diet also possibly explaining places like Iran.)

    A lot of hominids were surprisingly tall. The early humans in Europe were very large, with huge heads (a marker for selection for aggression) and probably were in male male competition for mates, but there was a real reduction in the Magdelenian period, which also saw craniofacial reduction as evidenced by the first impacted wisdom tooth ever anywhere. The first farmers were taller than the indigenous hunter gathers and contributed genes for that. The Yamnaya were much taller still (and they carried plague).

    The Yamana exterminated the population of North Europe and tall Germans seem very very tall to me. I think that height is not from the hunter gatherers but the Yamnaya. The blonde hair ect in Northerner Europe is clearly sexual selection and we know that the Hamnaya treated conquered women like cattle (animal husbandry). The position of Yamnaya women would have been altered and that likely caused them to be sexually selected.

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