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Hawaii: Land of the Half-Blood Princes
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One of my themes in my 2008 reader’s guide to Barack Obama’s memoir, America’s Half-Blood Prince: Obama’s ‘Story of Race and Inheritance’ was that growing up of mixed race in post-war Hawaii was radically different than in most of the rest of the U.S. At Punahou Prep, Obama was “just another mixed kid.” He had to strenuously re-invent himself as black to succeed in politics.

From the New York Times:

Want to Be Less Racist? Move to Hawaii
The “aloha spirit” may hold a deep lesson for all of us.

For some reason, Hawaii was just of no interest to the press during the Obama Era …

By Moises Velasquez-Manoff, June 28, 2019

HONOLULU — Kristin Pauker still remembers her uncle’s warning about Dartmouth. “It’s a white institution,” he said. “You’re going to feel out of place.”

Dr. Pauker, who is now a psychology professor, is of mixed ancestry, her mother of Japanese descent and her father white from an Italian-Irish background.

Back in Hawaii, being mixed was so common as to be nearly unremarkable. Many of her friends were some mixture of East Asian ethnicities, white, Filipino, Hawaiian and more, and for the most part, everyone hung out with everyone else.

Here is Hawaii’s demographics in 2018:

Note the tiny black percentage (2.2%). Plus a large fraction of Hawaii’s blacks got their through the military, which uses cognitive entrance tests and screens out the worst criminals. Hence, the white-black gap on NAEP public school scores is smallest in Hawaii of any state.

The Dartmouth student body, on the other hand, seemed self-segregated. The nonwhite students primarily stuck with their own race — blacks sat with blacks in the cafeteria, Asians with Asians, Native Americans with Native Americans.

For the first time in her life, she wasn’t sure where she belonged, and she found herself wondering: Does it have to be like this?

A few years later, as a graduate student in psychology at Tufts, she began her first study probing that question. Psychologists argue that “essentialist” thinking — ideas about human beings’ unchangeable essence, their inherent inferiority or the threat they supposedly pose — makes racism possible. Dr. Pauker wanted to know when children started expressing essentialist views of race.

It’s interesting how the word “essentialist” has come to mean “probabilistic,” since the real threat to the reigning worldview are human pattern recognition skills.

She found that between ages 4 and 11, upper-middle-class children from mostly white neighborhoods around Boston increasingly viewed race as a permanent condition and expressed stereotypes about other racial groups: that blacks were aggressive or, on the flip side, good at basketball; that Asians were submissive and good at math. These children came from public schools in liberal areas. They probably weren’t deliberately taught these stereotypes at home. But they absorbed them from the American ether nonetheless.

Or from trusting their lying eyes.

Obama, growing up in Hawaii, of course was obsessed with basketball.

Would children in Hawaii express the same views? Dr. Pauker repeated the study with middle- and upper-middle-class grade-school students in and around Honolulu, and was not entirely surprised to find that in Hawaii, the children, including those who were white, tended not to express the same essentialist ideas about race. They were not race-blind. They recognized skin color, hair texture and other features commonly associated with race. But they did not attribute to race the inherent qualities — aggression or book smarts — that their mainland brethren did. “They didn’t believe that race was biological,” Dr. Pauker told me.

She had a hypothesis to explain the difference. Whites dominated in the Boston area schools, but were a minority in Hawaii, and always had been. Hawaii also had the highest percentage of mixed-race people by a long shot in the country. (Among them was our first mixed-race president, Barack Obama, who was born there.) Mixed-race people, who make up nearly a quarter of Hawaii’s population of 1.4 million, serve as a kind of jamming mechanism for people’s race radar, Dr. Pauker thinks. Because if you can’t tell what people are by looking at them — if their very existence blurs the imagined boundaries between supposedly separate groups — then race becomes a less useful way to think about people.

Or it could be that in Hawaii, the Japanese and Chinese are less likely to be descended from grad students and more likely to be descended from sugarcane workers? Blacks are both vanishingly rare and likely to be broadly middle class, either military families or eccentrics like poet Frank Marshall or Wilt Chamberlain.

I’m interested in all of this partly because I myself come from a mixed background. I have an Ashkenazi Jewish father and a Puerto Rican mother (neither of which, I should point out, is a race). …

But Dr. Pauker belongs to a small group of psychologists, many of them mixed themselves, who have begun to explore the advantages of being multiracial.

Of course, Obama launched his public career by doubling down on his biological black side, not his environmental white preppy and southeast Asian side, as exemplified by the title of his memoir: “Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.”

Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies. And the United States is not only becoming more diverse, it’s also growing more mixed. Mixed-race people are among the fastest-growing segments of the population — between 2.6 percent and 6.9 percent of the population, depending on the study. By 2060, the segment is projected to double.

And yet, at the same time, we seem to be in the throes of a backlash against diversity, against mixing, with many people trying to claw their way back to a largely mythical, more homogeneous past. Could Hawaii show us another way forward? I flew there to find out.

The sacrifices you make …

… Being African-American isn’t easy in Hawaii, either, said Akiemi Glenn, executive director of the Popolo Project in Honolulu. Stereotypes about African-Americans abound, she told me, in part because so few black people live on the islands to push back against them. …

Moises Velasquez-Manoff, the author of “An Epidemic of Absence: A New Way of Understanding Allergies and Autoimmune Diseases” and an editor at Bay Nature magazine, is a contributing opinion writer.

21st Century genomics has discovered that the main racial division in humanity is between sub-Saharan Africans and the rest of the world. Hawaii is a place where blacks are a tiny and well-selected fraction of the population.

Another interesting aspect is Hawaii’s poor economic performance relative to sky-high expectations in the 1960s. Hawaii today has roughly the same demographics as Silicon Valley, but a snoozy tourism and pineapples economy.

 
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  1. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:

    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    I haven't been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don't take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.
    , @WowJustWow
    Do they have special tribal arrangements with the federal government like mainland Native Americans?
    , @Louis Renault
    Open borders in action.
  2. Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S.

    • Replies: @Anon
    My Chinese ancestry Hawaiian friend, upon hearing that I was visiting Oahu for the first time, just said to stay away from the western side. He didn't really want to get into details.
    , @Tim
    "Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S."


    I remember when I was in elementary school, we got a new kid from Hawaii, and we thought that was fascinating--she lived in paradise. She was white and her Dad was enlisted in the Navy. I asked her what it was like--all I knew about Hawaii was that Greg Brady got lost for a week in the surf, and Bobby and Cindy Brady thought it might be because they had disrespected a Hawaiian totem.

    She said it was awful. The people all hated whites and called them 'Haoles'. She said they were horrible to whites and she was so glad to be gone from that 'paradise.'

    Years later--now, actually--I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands. I'm a JAG officer in the National Guard and there are always posts for what sound like really great jobs in the VI. I asked somebody from there why there are always openings for really great jobs in the VI National Guard, and she said, it's horrible. It's all inbred, they all hate each other, and if you go in there and take one of their really great jobs they are going to hate you even more. She said it's completely crazy how openly hostile they are to whites. None of them are qualified for the position you have, but they aren't gonna take orders from you. It's utter dysfunction--all the way to the bottom.
  3. NYT doesn’t really do genomics, Steve. Unless they can show straight white men BAD.

  4. Off topic —

    EDITORIAL
    Cadet program is a first step in diversity at Boston Fire Department

    When Mayor Martin J. Walsh signed a home rule petition to start a cadet program at the Boston Fire Department, he took a small but important step toward fulfilling his commitment to diversify a city agency that desperately needs a new look.

    Now comes the hard part: getting from promise to program, and then to real change.

    Legislative approval is needed to set up the cadet program. State Representative Chynah Tyler, who filed the bill on behalf of Walsh, said, via e-mail, she will work “my hardest to get as much support as possible from my colleagues and hopefully pass this bill.” But it’s Walsh’s job to let Beacon Hill leaders know this is a priority — and not just cover for an administration that’s falling short on all kinds of diversity results. Walsh should also make sure Boston Fire Commissioner Joseph Finn is on board; if not, he’s not the leader Walsh or Boston needs.

    For years, the Boston Fire Department has resisted serious reform. The most recent department class has 52 men and one woman. Because of the physical demands, it has been harder for women around the country to break into firefighting. Yes, the job involves muscular strength to carry heavy equipment and manage a hose line with 150 pounds of water pressure, but women with such physical stamina are not impossible to find. Plus, the firefighting job has evolved. A 2016 study found that only 4 percent of fire department calls nationwide were fires and 64 percent involved medical emergencies, which can be handled by both men and women.

    🙂

    • Replies: @TWS
    I've never once met a female firefighter who met the standards. I've never even heard of one.
  5. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    … and diverse aerospace companies put diverse men.. oops, nowhere near the moon. I like that “researchers argue” bit too. Yeah, they may argue a lot of things, but then China is probably the strongest economy in the world, yet is not very diverse at all, and the most powerful economy ever seen in relative terms was 1950’s – ’70’s America. Show me the diversity, lady.

    Still, for an all-expenses trip to lovely Hawaii, I’d write about diversity too. Say aloha to Steve McGarrett and Dano for me – now there’s some diversity (though, you can’t disregard Chin Ho entirely … )

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    To your point about China's economy:

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/americas-monopoly-crisis-hits-the-military/
    , @ben tillman

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts
     
    How, pray tell, did they arrive at that conclusion? Are they omniscient?
  6. Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    'Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.'

    Meh. Who told you to look at the Polynesians?

    Having lived on Hawaii for a year and a half, and having lived and traveled elsewhere, I'd say Hawaii does pretty well in the good-looking women department. For starters, tourists who go someplace where they are going to have to disrobe tend to be better looking on average. Then a lot of those mixtures work out pretty well. Finally, there are very few blacks.

    On average, on a one to ten scale, Hawaii scores maybe two points higher than the rest of the world.
    , @Tired of Not Winning

    Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.
     

    Having been to Maui recently, I would have to concur. All the locals, regardless of race, are trashy and/or fat.
  7. Mixed-race people, who make up nearly a quarter of Hawaii’s population of 1.4 million, serve as a kind of jamming mechanism for people’s race radar, Dr. Pauker thinks. Because if you can’t tell what people are by looking at them — if their very existence blurs the imagined boundaries between supposedly separate groups — then race becomes a less useful way to think about people.

    Or, you know, maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..

    researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    Yeah, that must be why Japan is a third-world hellhole, while Mexico and Brazil are first-world powerhouses….

    • Replies: @anon19
    Want to agree but my hour is not up yet.
    , @Bliss

    maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..
     
    So genius, what “biological race” do mixed race people belong to?
  8. increasingly viewed race as a permanent condition

    Seems pretty permanent to me.

    • Replies: @guest
    Ah, but what if you could convince people white is black and black white?

    -the wizards running our culture
  9. It’s like Coudenhove-Kalergi’s best wet dream!

  10. The Kool-Aid is potent here. The Narrative is working overtime.

    Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    Now define diversity. Is that race/ethnic diversity? Socio-economic diversity? Intellectual diversity? Cultural diversity? Language diversity? Country of birth diversity? What?

    “Fairer verdicts”? Really? Measured how?

    More profitable? Are racial/ethnic minority-controlled firms more profitable than Caucasian-controlled firms?

    Researchers argue…blah, blah, blah…

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Think of certain planned communities' ads. There are young, middle aged, elderly, white, black, hispanic, and Asian people shown there.
    Somehow, they ALL look alike.
    , @Skyler_the_Weird
    Verdicts are fairer because they get the defendant off more often even if they are as guilty as OJ.
  11. Not sure why you didn’t include a picture of the author with this post, Steve. It’s all relevant.

    • Replies: @Laugh Track

    Not sure why you didn’t include a picture of the author with this post, Steve. It’s all relevant.
     
    Shaved head...maybe he's just trying to be cool. But shaved eyebrows?
    , @Jim Don Bob
    He won the James Beard Award for Food and Health, so he is obviously a qualified Scientist!
  12. “Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits.” Velasquez-Manoff then lists many of these claimed benefits.

    But do these purported benefits actually exist? I had thought that universities were unable to provide meaningful evidence for their existence.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yes, I hear that “studies prove” Diverse workforces are the best from my colleagues routinely, yet somehow they can never name these “studies.” Color me surprised.
  13. Well, to start with, the speaker’s wishful thinking notwithstanding, Hawaii is not some sort of multi-ethnic paradise.

    The schools notoriously have ‘beat up a Haole Day.’ The ethnic Japanese (politely) monopolize the levers of power. Everyone thinks the ‘Portuguese’ are scum. Everyone thinks the Filipinos are scum. There are multiple castes of whites.

    The Japanese go to Japanese doctors. Etc. If a perfect absence of any sense of community is what you’re looking for, Hawaii might be the place for you. It’s not bad, but…

    Yes, miscegenation has been rife, and most people are actually some sort of mixture of something –but they all have their own community, and it definitely isn’t Hawaiian.

    …unless of course, you’re Hawaiian. But there aren’t very many of those.

    …rather comically, though, everyone knows exactly what to do with blacks. American blacks who try moving to rural Hawaii can find themselves very quickly being made unwelcome — in no uncertain terms.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    An acquaintance, who was born and raised in Hawaii, has told me that they practice an advanced form of affirmative action there. One racial group, say the Fillipinos, gets most of the police jobs, another, say the Japanese get most of the social worker jobs, and so on. (This is a made up example. I cannot remember the details of what he told me.) He also told me race relations, while not poisonous, are balanced on a knife edge. An otherwise minor accidental interaction that would amount to nothing if within a racial group, can explode into a potentially lethal encounter with absolutely no forewarning, nor any possibility of reconstructing why the situation headed south. Friends who spent years in Hawaii have told me the same thing. They emphasized how dangerous certain areas and situations are for Haoles. The tourists never see this and the people in charge apparently do their damdest to hide the true state of affairs.
    , @Curle
    This is all true.

    I am Obama’s age and lived in Hono during HS.

    Punahou at the time had rough ethnic cliques though, at least there were cliques dominated by one race or the other.

    I got jumped one year on Kill Haole Day.

    Bull Conner was nicer to blacks than the HPD which effectively kept them away from Waikiki. HPD was predominantly local. The Feds were investigating HPD over this at the time.

    Japanese ran the place.

    Polynesians hated blacks. I saw some tormenting a young black kid for no reason with taunts of Kunta Kinte.

    The openness story is myth.
  14. Speaking of Hawaii, how have they been getting their fair share of asylum seekers and refugees?

    For the Tulsifans:

    “Tulsi Gabbard on Immigration Reform

    Key Points

    [MORE]

    Tulsi is urgently fighting for legislation to protect millions of young people from deportation with end of DACA (Deferred Actions for Childhood Arrivals)
    Tulsi has worked with the Hawai’i ACLU, Hawai’i Civil Rights Coalition, Hawai’i Coalition for Immigrant Rights and the National Immigration Law Center to work towards meaningful immigration reform
    See also Keeping Families Together
    Legislation

    H.R. 3440 DREAM Act
    H.R. 532 Dreamer Information Protection Act, which prohibits using DACA hearings for deportation
    H.R. 496 Bridge Act, which codifies the DACA program
    H.R. 392: Tulsi co-sponsored the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, which would remove the existing per-country cap on employment-based green cards and ensure all immigrants are treated equally regardless of their country of origin.
    Tulsi’s Statements/Video

    “The Trump Administration’s use of children as pawns in the immigration debate is despicable and must end immediately. We obviously need comprehensive immigration reform.” https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1008898814365667328
    “Private prisons & detention centers hold disproportionate numbers of undocumented people, including minors. We need immigration reform.” https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/924274573310246913
    “I joined over 190 colleagues today & introduced the #KeepFamiliesTogether Act (HR 6135) to end the inhumane practice of taking children from their parents at the border. We need comprehensive immigration reform, but using children for leverage in immigration debate is despicable.” https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1009508400672182277
    “Immigration is a tremendous economic benefit for Hawai’i and our country as a whole. Passing the #DreamAct will help, but we have much more work left to do.” https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard/status/931703519207481345
    Tulsi’s House speech urging passage of the DREAM Act:

    Tulsi calls on Congress to pass DREAM Act: https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-calls-congress-pass-dream-act”

    • Replies: @dr kill
    Hahaha, Obama can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Basketball.
  15. Ha! Hawaii is what good-thinking people imagine Alabama is, or at least it’s closer. The natives hate haole.

  16. her mother of Japanese descent and her father white from an Italian-Irish background.

    Two enemies and a neutral! She’s practically guilty of holocaust herself.

    Hawaii is a place where blacks are a tiny and well-selected fraction of the population.

    In the mid-’90s I did some census research on a university geography lab computer (that could probably be done with a Web site and a smartphone today) on children without adult males in the household, as a proxy for bastardy.

    In 46 states, the black figure was higher than the worst state for whites. But in two states, the black figure was better than the best for any state’s whites.

    Those two states were North Dakota and Hawaii. Obviously the military was doing some serious selecting. The Air Force is prominent in both states, as well as the Navy and Coast Guard in Hawaii. They don’t trust their expensive equipment to just anybody.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Judging by some recent collisions at sea, they are now trusting their expensive equipment to just anybody.
  17. “ Mixed-race people are among the fastest-growing segments of the population — between 2.6 percent and 6.9 percent of the population”

    But how many of those mixed race people identify as mixed race? Or simply as American?

    Barack Obama and Kamala Harris are mixed but they’d probably bristle if described as anything other than black. Then you have these people who have a 1/2 Cherokee grandma. Mixed? “Nope, I’m Native!”

    People seem happy to tribe themselves off on the mainland, mixed or not, and it’s not necessarily the evil white supremacists doing it.

    I’m not enough of an expert to say why Hawaii has such a relaxed and miscegenated view on race, but I see no evidence it is happening/will happening here.

    And this is assuming that Hawaii’s attitude on rave is as relaxed as advertised. I’ve spoken with a couple people who lived in/were stationed in Hawaii. Apparently there are neighborhoods and communities that whites/non-Native Hawaiians are advised to avoid.

  18. Asians get way more laid back when they are culturally comfortable. The Asian immigrant experience in the 80s/90s on the US mainland was much rougher than what Hawaiian Asians experience, so it fed strongly into the striver culture.

    I mean, imagine your kids in a California public school circa 1992, you can’t speak English, and you hear gunshots pretty much every night. The local Korean shopkeeper got blown away recently, and you’re worried you’re next.

    Wouldn’t you move heaven and earth to get your family out of that hellhole?

  19. Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    • Replies: @anon
    The first genuine, joyous smile I've seen from any of the Dem candidates. Really sets her apart from the snakes and clowns with their smirks and rictus grins.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    Tulsi would far and away be the sexiest President.
    , @Bliss
    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/48/4d/a4484db1e2c9ee67209e0d3e54142aef.jpg
    , @Zoodles
    In terms of her genetics she's overwhelmingly european. Her mom was white, her dad was a mix.
    , @Cloudbuster
    Never vote with your d*ck.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    A Samoan woman who isn't grossly overweight. That is a rarity.
  20. @Anon
    Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.

    ‘Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.’

    Meh. Who told you to look at the Polynesians?

    Having lived on Hawaii for a year and a half, and having lived and traveled elsewhere, I’d say Hawaii does pretty well in the good-looking women department. For starters, tourists who go someplace where they are going to have to disrobe tend to be better looking on average. Then a lot of those mixtures work out pretty well. Finally, there are very few blacks.

    On average, on a one to ten scale, Hawaii scores maybe two points higher than the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    On average, on a one to ten scale, Hawaii scores maybe two points higher than the rest of the world.
     
    Where women are concerned, I give top marks to Northern Italy.
  21. The solution is simple but you guys don’t like it

    If there are not enough whites to contaminate the institutions then there is no racism

    white men=bad stuff

    Almost ALL People of Color agree

    • Replies: @Tired of Not Winning
    Most POCs I know are much more racist than whites. Indians hate Pakistanis. Indian upper castes hate the lower castes, even outside India. Light skin Indians look down on dark skin Indians. Yellow Asians look down on brown Asians like Filipinos or Cambodians. Indians and Chinese look down on each other. All Asians look down on hispanics and blacks. Cubanos look down on Puerto Ricans and Chicanos, Chicanos look down on Salvadorans, Nicaraguans and Guatemalans. White hispanics look down on brown hispanics. Light skin blacks look down on dark skin blacks.

    It's no different than among whites: Anglos used to look down on the Nordics and Alpines, who looked down on the Irish, Southern Europeans and Slavs, who looked down on the Jews.

    And regardless of race, within each group, the rich hate the poor.

    My point is, everyone is racist. It's human nature to distrust those who look and sound vastly different from you. Modern humans have existed for 200,000 years, but it's only in the last 500 years that we've started mixing and mingling. Our prejudices have been formed for far too long to be eliminated in just a few decades.
  22. researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    Those guys are never even a little ashamed at the ridiculous contradictions between stories, just this week we have been inundated by propaganda about people wanting to come to the US “for a better life” yet we’re asked to believe American prosperity was caused by the flow of destitutes rather than the other way around?

    40 years ago, had you taken a group of the most prosperous countries on earth, and gave it a catchy name like G7, for short, you would have found preciously little diversity, aside from blacks in the United States. I guess you’re just not supposed to remember anything before year zero (now set somewhere around 2008).

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    True. The stronger economies preceded the diversity in the Western countries I assume she means. We'll see how the economies hold up under increasing diversity.
  23. The mean IQ in Hawaii is probably not very high, due to the Hawaiian natives and Philipinos in the mix. If Hawaii was 80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White, it would be more like Taiwan and less like Puerto Rico, if you get my drift.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?
    , @Triumph104

    The mean IQ in Hawaii is probably not very high, due to the Hawaiian natives and Philipinos in the mix. If Hawaii was 80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White, it would be more like Taiwan and less like Puerto Rico, if you get my drift.
     
    Hawaii is a state not a country. East Asian countries have immigration laws that control and in some areas elminate foreign competition. East Asian immigration laws also keep a lot of the talent from leaving. Hawaii doesn't have that. Three hundred million Americans would have the right to descend on Hawaii and dilute the theoretical "80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White" population. Singapore has millions of immigrants and carefully maintains its population at about 75 percent Chinese, 15 percent Malay, 7 percent Indian, and 3 percent other - something that is obviously illegal in the US. In fact, some states have shipped out their permantly homeless (mentally ill and/or substance abusers) to Hawaii and they are overburdening the healthcare system and criminal justice system. East Asia doesn't have that sort of nonsense.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    I was talking to a friend of mine. He is a successful dentist and his kids go to a private high school. He told me almost all of the kids at these schools go to the mainland for college and careers.

    As well they should. Hawaiian economy is based on tourism and the military. Plenty of jobs but most don't pay very much.

    So we do have some smarties, but they leave.
  24. So is this like a lead into your sequel to the HBP titled the “Half-Blood Polynesian Princess: A story of Matai and Krishna Cults”?

    • LOL: MBlanc46
  25. @Colin Wright
    'Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.'

    Meh. Who told you to look at the Polynesians?

    Having lived on Hawaii for a year and a half, and having lived and traveled elsewhere, I'd say Hawaii does pretty well in the good-looking women department. For starters, tourists who go someplace where they are going to have to disrobe tend to be better looking on average. Then a lot of those mixtures work out pretty well. Finally, there are very few blacks.

    On average, on a one to ten scale, Hawaii scores maybe two points higher than the rest of the world.

    On average, on a one to ten scale, Hawaii scores maybe two points higher than the rest of the world.

    Where women are concerned, I give top marks to Northern Italy.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Do keep in mind that HI has a wide variety of women (e.g. Europeans, Asians, etc) and that Northern Italy for the most part, tends to be somewhat uniform (less diverse), leaning more toward a Northern European hue (which is not a bad thing). And of course, HI is tropical, unlike Northern Italy, and so there is that factor that goes into hot looking women.
  26. @BB753
    The mean IQ in Hawaii is probably not very high, due to the Hawaiian natives and Philipinos in the mix. If Hawaii was 80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White, it would be more like Taiwan and less like Puerto Rico, if you get my drift.

    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    But we are talking about a mean. The Asian population of Hawaii is large enough to be representative. Maybe the place is just too laid back. Maybe the fact that a larger proportion of the Asian population of Hawaii is Japanese. Japanese Americans must be the mellowest, most laid back ethnic group in this country. Maybe they have smarts but little initiative or are low T.

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful? I don't get the impression that they are. There are enough Japanese Americans that we should have seen a smaller scale storming of the Ivy gates by Japanese decades ago. Where was it?
    , @Twinkie

    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?
     
    One problem is that it’s so unique compared to the rest of the country that many high achieving Hawaiians don’t adjust well to mainland life and eventually go back home. For example, doctors who are from there are notoriously difficult to retain at mainland hospitals.

    Remember that genes/race aren’t everything. Environment does matter (e.g. North vs. South Korea).
    , @Reg Cæsar

    How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?
     
    Robert Kiyosaki* wrote a book with Donald Trump!

    Also in your old domain of marketing is "Apple Chief Evangelist" Guy Kawasaki. I mention him because he would be horrified to be mentioned here. I like the advice his dad Hiram, a Honolulu politician, gave him: always dress better than your audience, out of respect for them. That's still pretty casual in the Valley.

    Jake Shimabukuro is top dog in his particular field at the moment. For what that's worth.

    But the most notable Japanese-Americans tend to come from the mainland-- S I Hayakawa, Minoru Yamasaki, Francis Fukuyama... Have any other natives of Canada made it to the U.S. Senate? (Oh, yeah-- Ted Cruz.)

    *Kiyosaki has a statuesque blond wife. Kawasaki may as well, but I'm not sure. Yamasaki's second and third wives were white, possibly both blond too. His first and fourth was Japanese-American. Yes, was. She was the same woman.
    , @1661er
    Michelle Wie, the golfer?! Of course, she is from the post-war stock, not from the plantation workers stock.
    , @deBrutus
    > How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    From NAEP data, the closer the US states are to Asia the less smart they are. Hawaii is just second lowest next to that for Alaska. West coast Chinese are mostly descendants of the legacy gold miners and railroad builders from Guandong. The Guandong average provincial IQ is below the Chinese national average. The number in Silicon Valley does nothing for California. The new professional Chinese immigrants are displaced further to the east. The further to the east away from Asia the smarter.

    http://i67.tinypic.com/2925ytk.png

    , @Tired of Not Winning
    Sunshine has been known to slow the flow of blood and retard the brain, hence the term "lazy coconut blood clot".
  27. @Colin Wright
    Well, to start with, the speaker's wishful thinking notwithstanding, Hawaii is not some sort of multi-ethnic paradise.

    The schools notoriously have 'beat up a Haole Day.' The ethnic Japanese (politely) monopolize the levers of power. Everyone thinks the 'Portuguese' are scum. Everyone thinks the Filipinos are scum. There are multiple castes of whites.

    The Japanese go to Japanese doctors. Etc. If a perfect absence of any sense of community is what you're looking for, Hawaii might be the place for you. It's not bad, but...

    Yes, miscegenation has been rife, and most people are actually some sort of mixture of something --but they all have their own community, and it definitely isn't Hawaiian.

    ...unless of course, you're Hawaiian. But there aren't very many of those.

    ...rather comically, though, everyone knows exactly what to do with blacks. American blacks who try moving to rural Hawaii can find themselves very quickly being made unwelcome -- in no uncertain terms.

    An acquaintance, who was born and raised in Hawaii, has told me that they practice an advanced form of affirmative action there. One racial group, say the Fillipinos, gets most of the police jobs, another, say the Japanese get most of the social worker jobs, and so on. (This is a made up example. I cannot remember the details of what he told me.) He also told me race relations, while not poisonous, are balanced on a knife edge. An otherwise minor accidental interaction that would amount to nothing if within a racial group, can explode into a potentially lethal encounter with absolutely no forewarning, nor any possibility of reconstructing why the situation headed south. Friends who spent years in Hawaii have told me the same thing. They emphasized how dangerous certain areas and situations are for Haoles. The tourists never see this and the people in charge apparently do their damdest to hide the true state of affairs.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    My impression as well. Just from "contacts" and a bit of tourist experience, mind you.
    , @PiltdownMan

    An acquaintance, who was born and raised in Hawaii, has told me that they practice an advanced form of affirmative action there. One racial group, say the Fillipinos, gets most of the police jobs, another, say the Japanese get most of the social worker jobs, and so on.
     
    If the race groups don't outmarry too much, you've pretty much got the makings of a caste-based society.That can make for long periods of relative social equilibrium.
  28. How’s everyone’s summer so far? Pretty good? Yeah. Yeah …

    $100,000 salary to treat ebola patients

    New York State is hiring people to treat ebola patients.

    A new job ad was just posted today on Simply Hired. New York state department of health is hiring an ebola pathogen program manager to work non traditional hours (off duty hours) on an emergency basis, working with fire department and police who might need to transport ebola patients.

    http://www.ebolaoutbreakmap.com/listings/ebola-new-york-city-hires-ebola-pathogens-program-manager/

    https://www.simplyhired.com/job/tpjzHFqdks2vsI-c-seX-NEMUwRGl1GR7hEhRofc9xq2oMq7JYO17Q?isp=0&q=ebola

  29. @Anonymous
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    I haven’t been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don’t take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yeah, they are so tough that they lost their homeland to not only whites but Asians.
    , @Seth Largo
    Yes. A friend of mine who was stationed there as a Marine has many stories about Polynesian Hawaiians getting in fight with the white Marines.
    , @Alec Leamas

    I haven’t been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don’t take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.
     
    My experience is that they're generally jolly and slow to anger, but slow to un-anger as well.
    , @Hypnotoad666
    I know a guy who got his jaw broke by some locals. Maybe he had it coming, I don't know. I've also heard from multiple sources that the locals like to beat up haoels with little or no provocation.

    I don't think it's quite the multi-cultural love-fest that this NYT chick imagines.
  30. Anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel H
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    I haven't been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don't take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.

    Yeah, they are so tough that they lost their homeland to not only whites but Asians.

    • Replies: @Loren
    what else could they do?
    their culture, circa 1850, was stone age or close to it.
    I lived there for a year.
    Hawaiians, often poor, obese and angry. I can relate.

    PARADISE LOST.
  31. @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    But we are talking about a mean. The Asian population of Hawaii is large enough to be representative. Maybe the place is just too laid back. Maybe the fact that a larger proportion of the Asian population of Hawaii is Japanese. Japanese Americans must be the mellowest, most laid back ethnic group in this country. Maybe they have smarts but little initiative or are low T.

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful? I don’t get the impression that they are. There are enough Japanese Americans that we should have seen a smaller scale storming of the Ivy gates by Japanese decades ago. Where was it?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It's a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    The Japanese did very well in the early 20th century America as commercial farmers, especially in California. They have strongly intermarried with whites to such an extent I don't think there are a lot of purely Japanese in the US left. They never had a high level immigration to the US like the Chinese and the Koreans either.
    , @Tired of Not Winning

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful?
     
    Most Japanese who emigrated to the US pre-WWII were farmers. Since WWII, emigration from Japan has been reduced to a trickle. In the 80's when Japanese companies started to expand abroad, they only sent the worst managers, and kept all the good ones at home. Today the Japanese make up the smallest of all East Asian groups in the US, around 800,000, and both men and women have the highest outmarriage rate. The ones who are still pure blood are by now third/fourth generation, i.e. fat and lazy like everyone else.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    What would high IQ Japanese do here? There isn't much in the way of research here. A handful of colleges. Biggest business is tourism. No big financial firms headquartered here, though those do have representation.

    I do see a fair amount of Japanese in professional positions. Doctors, dentists, lawyers. So maybe that's the answer.
  32. @Dan Hayes
    "Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits." Velasquez-Manoff then lists many of these claimed benefits.

    But do these purported benefits actually exist? I had thought that universities were unable to provide meaningful evidence for their existence.

    Yes, I hear that “studies prove” Diverse workforces are the best from my colleagues routinely, yet somehow they can never name these “studies.” Color me surprised.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  33. I remember asking that as he was ascending, shouldn’t he be telling us “hey, I’m a mixed race kid from Hawaii and I’m here to tell you how diversity can work well”?

    But no, what we got was his faking the urban background he brought home like an anthropologist from a few visits to a black barber shop, and all the same assumptions.

    One reason is demagogy pays in racial politics–nobody wanted to hear the good news. I suspect it also had a lot to do with that dearth of blacks in Hawaii. Diversity without blacks is not diversity. Tragically, it might be the most viable sort.

    Barack is in every way a refutation of woke anti-racism. He can’t forgive us for that. He wanted to be heroic. Blending in in Hawaii galled his narcissistic ass.

    • Replies: @Loren
    poet Frank Marshall? davis?
    poet?? Are you talking about Obamas presumed daddy? the guy who has a mole on his face in the same place Obama does.
    , @Ghost of Bull Moose
    0bama got mau-maued big-time by Bobby Rush the first time he ran for Congress in 2000. He got crushed.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    We don't have a lot of the particularly violent groups. Hardly any blacks or Hispanics.

    There are some parts of Hawaii that are more dangerous than others. Waianae on Oahu comes to mind. More Hawaiians (almost always mixed with something else) and Pacific Islanders there, but they aren't nearly as murderous as blacks are. Someone might break into your car, but Hawaii has a pretty low murder rate.
  34. @Daniel H
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    I haven't been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don't take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.

    Yes. A friend of mine who was stationed there as a Marine has many stories about Polynesian Hawaiians getting in fight with the white Marines.

  35. One of my colleagues was a contemporary of Barry at Punahou and she claims that she did not know that he was half black. Her recollection is that he presented as generally Polynesian, possibly Fijian. One imagines that he was coy about that fact.

  36. @Anon000
    Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7232/7263925032_e20f34656e_z.jpg

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    The first genuine, joyous smile I’ve seen from any of the Dem candidates. Really sets her apart from the snakes and clowns with their smirks and rictus grins.

  37. @Daniel H
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    I haven't been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don't take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.

    I haven’t been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don’t take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.

    My experience is that they’re generally jolly and slow to anger, but slow to un-anger as well.

  38. @Anonymous
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    Do they have special tribal arrangements with the federal government like mainland Native Americans?

    • Replies: @Alden
    No, but there are a few trying to become ethnic activists who occasionally talk about becoming designated tribes with their own lands.

    They talk and then go back to the beach.
    , @Haole2
    No. A long story, use Google.
  39. @Brobert

    researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    Those guys are never even a little ashamed at the ridiculous contradictions between stories, just this week we have been inundated by propaganda about people wanting to come to the US "for a better life" yet we're asked to believe American prosperity was caused by the flow of destitutes rather than the other way around?

    40 years ago, had you taken a group of the most prosperous countries on earth, and gave it a catchy name like G7, for short, you would have found preciously little diversity, aside from blacks in the United States. I guess you're just not supposed to remember anything before year zero (now set somewhere around 2008).

    True. The stronger economies preceded the diversity in the Western countries I assume she means. We’ll see how the economies hold up under increasing diversity.

  40. @Daniel H
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    But we are talking about a mean. The Asian population of Hawaii is large enough to be representative. Maybe the place is just too laid back. Maybe the fact that a larger proportion of the Asian population of Hawaii is Japanese. Japanese Americans must be the mellowest, most laid back ethnic group in this country. Maybe they have smarts but little initiative or are low T.

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful? I don't get the impression that they are. There are enough Japanese Americans that we should have seen a smaller scale storming of the Ivy gates by Japanese decades ago. Where was it?

    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It’s a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hawaii Statehood is a pretty good example of a good idea that really wasn't.

    Hawaii seems to be a place as good as any for nonblack nonwhites, but isn't particularly good for whites, except for vacations. Regular blacks don't fare well there either, but they don't fare well anywhere by nonblack standards.


    A phony autobiography of an alleged "Honolulu Madam"-actually a thinly disguised smut novel-of the same title inadvertently presents a text book view circa 1969 of what the conventional wisdom was regarding Hawaii then. If one can find a copy, it's worht a read provided you know that it is in fact not an autobiography but a library-read synopsis of the conventional view of things Hawaiian, interspersed with some abject smut written obviously by a man trying to write from a female perspective.


    Honolulu Madam
    Mitsuko, Iolana

    Los Angeles: Holloway House, 1969. 316p., wraps lightly worn.

    Alleged autobiography of a "beautiful half-caste in a white world" who worked her way to the top of the prostitution game in Honolulu.

    Cat.No: 196990


    ISBN: 0870674277

    Price: $12.00

    https://www.bolerium.com/pictures/196990.jpg?v=1508873467

    , @newrouter
    Alaska Five O - TV that didn't happen.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It’s a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.
     
    Same with Alaska. Tell the Puerto Ricans statehood is overrated.
    , @1661er
    1970s was also when the new generations of airplanes allowed airlines to bypass Hawaii on the way between US mainland to/from Asia. I don't think the original 747 could do it, but 747SP could do SFO/LAX-Tokyo without stop at HNL. The first flight for 747SP was 1976.

    A lot of personnel/logistic for the Vietnam War was also channeled through Hawaii.

  41. @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    One problem is that it’s so unique compared to the rest of the country that many high achieving Hawaiians don’t adjust well to mainland life and eventually go back home. For example, doctors who are from there are notoriously difficult to retain at mainland hospitals.

    Remember that genes/race aren’t everything. Environment does matter (e.g. North vs. South Korea).

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment, but nobody much pays attention to it, as we saw with the rise of Obama.
    , @Anonymous
    Yes.

    Just as the left wing fails to take into account genetics, the right wing utterly fails to account for, or even acknowledge the role of environment.

    If you take a British newborn baby and let a black Bantu couple in Africa adopt it, that baby will grow up to speak a Bantu language as his first. If he learns English in adulthood, he will always speak with a Bantu accent, despite being 100% genetically British.

    Hawaii is a unique location with an idiosyncratic culture. Even high IQ and conscientious people become relaxed and unambitious in Hawaii. Just because Hawaiians tend to achieve below what their genetics would predict, doesn't mean they have bad genetics.
  42. @Achmed E. Newman

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    ... and diverse aerospace companies put diverse men.. oops, nowhere near the moon. I like that "researchers argue" bit too. Yeah, they may argue a lot of things, but then China is probably the strongest economy in the world, yet is not very diverse at all, and the most powerful economy ever seen in relative terms was 1950's - '70's America. Show me the diversity, lady.

    Still, for an all-expenses trip to lovely Hawaii, I'd write about diversity too. Say aloha to Steve McGarrett and Dano for me - now there's some diversity (though, you can't disregard Chin Ho entirely ... )
  43. @Anon000
    Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7232/7263925032_e20f34656e_z.jpg

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    Tulsi would far and away be the sexiest President.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    Sexier than Rutherford B. Hayes? I don't think so.
  44. Hail says: • Website

    Surprised that nothing in the OP or the 40 comments so far mentions Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii). She spent the large majority of her formative years in Hawaii, and remains tied to the state today. Reports are that she moved there at age 2 (early 1980s) — with mixed-race father of largely Samoan origin and apparently full-(NW)European mother from Indiana.

    She did not partake in Hawaii school life, though. She was homeschooled.

    Still in Hawaii by 2003 (the year she turned 22), Gabbard signed on with the Hawaii National Guard while combat operations in Iraq were still ongoing (April), putting an early political career on hold (or, for the cynically minded, making a grand investment in it) by volunteering to be deployed to Iraq in 2004. She was back in Hawaii soon enough, though, and earned a degree from Hawaii Pacific Univ. in 2009.

    Tulsi Gabbard is a Hawaiian in several senses:

    1.) by upbringing;
    2.) by race (mixed race with Polynesian component);
    3.) by ‘culture’ (her oddball choice of Hinduism as a religion);
    4.) perhaps by personality;
    5.) by choice (continuing to return, when talent so often leaves).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I met her briefly, and she is very nice in person.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard

    The Hindu is a cult sect.

    , @peterAUS
    Yes.

    As I asked in another tread, it would be good to see what is her take on reverse racism working there.
    "Beat a Haole" and similar stuff.
  45. Incidentally…

    Moises Velasquez-Manoff?

    Aside from the detail that she’s full of shit, that name is a real gold mine. I take it she’s Jewish but decided being Hispanic would pay off.

    …and she’s telling us about Hawaii — in terms that make it clear she’s utterly dishonest.

    ‘Aloha spirit,’ my ass. It’s an interesting place, and not too bad, overall, but diversity paradise?

    No. And it’s irrelevant, but no one says ‘Aloha’ on Hawaii — not unless they’re being paid to say it. I counted. In eighteen months, four times somebody said it who wasn’t being paid to say it. For practical purposes, ‘aloha’ means ‘I’m being paid to say aloha.’

    That’s okay, but hell — ‘Velasquez-Manoff’ isn’t writing about the actual Hawaiian Islands that are off there in the middle of the Pacific. She’s constructing a fantasy to suit her ideological needs.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I thought it was a bit cheesy when Samuel Coleridge-Taylor did that
    , @Dan Hayes
    Colin Wright:

    Constructions of Pacific fantasy-lands have a long and checkered history. A prime example being Margaret Mead's Samoan fantasies (most likely cooked-up in Morningside Heights).
    , @Lot
    “Moises Velasquez-Manoff?

    Aside from the detail that she’s full of shit, that name is a real gold mine. I take it she’s Jewish but decided being Hispanic would pay off.”

    Moises is Spanish for Moses and a common Christian first name in Latin America.

    In this case he looks like an albino.

    https://cdn.glutenfreeliving.com/2014/10/author-interview-22.jpg
  46. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It's a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.

    Hawaii Statehood is a pretty good example of a good idea that really wasn’t.

    Hawaii seems to be a place as good as any for nonblack nonwhites, but isn’t particularly good for whites, except for vacations. Regular blacks don’t fare well there either, but they don’t fare well anywhere by nonblack standards.

    A phony autobiography of an alleged “Honolulu Madam”-actually a thinly disguised smut novel-of the same title inadvertently presents a text book view circa 1969 of what the conventional wisdom was regarding Hawaii then. If one can find a copy, it’s worht a read provided you know that it is in fact not an autobiography but a library-read synopsis of the conventional view of things Hawaiian, interspersed with some abject smut written obviously by a man trying to write from a female perspective.

    Honolulu Madam
    Mitsuko, Iolana

    Los Angeles: Holloway House, 1969. 316p., wraps lightly worn.

    Alleged autobiography of a “beautiful half-caste in a white world” who worked her way to the top of the prostitution game in Honolulu.

    Cat.No: 196990

    ISBN: 0870674277

    Price: $12.00

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You posted this before. I guess she reminds you of Debbie Harry.
  47. @Steve Sailer
    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It's a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.

    Alaska Five O – TV that didn’t happen.

  48. Anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail
    Surprised that nothing in the OP or the 40 comments so far mentions Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii). She spent the large majority of her formative years in Hawaii, and remains tied to the state today. Reports are that she moved there at age 2 (early 1980s) -- with mixed-race father of largely Samoan origin and apparently full-(NW)European mother from Indiana.

    She did not partake in Hawaii school life, though. She was homeschooled.

    Still in Hawaii by 2003 (the year she turned 22), Gabbard signed on with the Hawaii National Guard while combat operations in Iraq were still ongoing (April), putting an early political career on hold (or, for the cynically minded, making a grand investment in it) by volunteering to be deployed to Iraq in 2004. She was back in Hawaii soon enough, though, and earned a degree from Hawaii Pacific Univ. in 2009.

    Tulsi Gabbard is a Hawaiian in several senses:

    1.) by upbringing;
    2.) by race (mixed race with Polynesian component);
    3.) by 'culture' (her oddball choice of Hinduism as a religion);
    4.) perhaps by personality;
    5.) by choice (continuing to return, when talent so often leaves).

    I met her briefly, and she is very nice in person.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard

    The Hindu is a cult sect.

    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
    I met her briefly, and she is very nice in person.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard

    The Hindu is a cult sect.

    Yeah. Further, her mother was a Hindu also (though a convert) and Gabbard was raised in that tradition. If there's anyone oddball in this situation, it's her mother.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    Tulsi does seem very nice and genuine, but there is something a bit masculine in her face, mannerisms, and speech patterns.

    I can't figure out if that touch of masculinity is nature or nuture. I also wonder if she affects or exaggerates certain mannerisms for the public eye.

    I do like the gray streak. That's a difficult look for a younger woman to pull off, but it looks sharp on Tulsi and lends her a bit of physical gravitas.

    I am pretty bleh about her gun control and open borders positions. I need her to do a 180 on those, but I know that is wishful thinking.

  49. @Steve Sailer
    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It's a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.

    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It’s a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.

    Same with Alaska. Tell the Puerto Ricans statehood is overrated.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    Interesting you mention Alaska, in a thread where there's been some discussion of crime. For all the talk about inner city ghettos or meth-ridden Appalachian towns being hotbeds of crime, some of the most dangerous places in the US are the Native villages in Alaska. Being in small isolated communities brings out the worst in some people, police protection ranges from very inadequate to nonexistent, and everyone owns guns.
    , @Alden
    Big problem for PR is statehood means income tax.
    , @MBlanc46
    The difference is that all the Puerto Ricans will move to the mainland.
  50. @Twinkie

    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?
     
    One problem is that it’s so unique compared to the rest of the country that many high achieving Hawaiians don’t adjust well to mainland life and eventually go back home. For example, doctors who are from there are notoriously difficult to retain at mainland hospitals.

    Remember that genes/race aren’t everything. Environment does matter (e.g. North vs. South Korea).

    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment, but nobody much pays attention to it, as we saw with the rise of Obama.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment
     
    It sure is geologically. The islands popped up to the surface about a million years apart, so they are at different stages of development. Hawaii, the island (and county) is the youngest, with the world's largest (Mauna Kea) and most active (Kilauea) volcanoes. The former is taller than Everest when both are measured from the sea floor.

    A new island is due to appear to the south, in about 50,000 years. Get in on the ground floor now!

    The state has America's weirdest county, as well. Most of Molokai is in Maui County. But a new county was erected in Fr Damien's leper colony. It surpassed-- or undercut-- Loving County, Texas, as the least populated in the US.
    , @Art Deco
    It's a pleasant environment if your likes-and-dislikes emphasize certain things. About 60% of the population lives in urban Honolulu, a 2d tier city roughly the size of Buffalo or Nashville. The built environment there is utilitarian and modern ('ticky-tacky' in the words of a woman I knew who'd headed back to the mainland after a period of trial residency). For all the beautiful weather, it's not a pedestrian friendly town. At the time BO was living there, the local university was the butt of jokes. In re the outer islands, the largest settlement on the Big Island has a population of about 35,000; that on Maui about 20,000; that on Kauai perhaps 12,000 if that. Traveling to the nearest city requires you take a scheduled flight and the round trip fare will set you back $150.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    There must be a reason why Marc Zuckerberg purchased half a million acres there, wouldn't you say? I mean, if its due to his wife's Chinese ancestry, he could've just purchased more land in Northern CA (where Asians are pretty well represented).
  51. Anonymous[275] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright
    Incidentally...

    Moises Velasquez-Manoff?

    Aside from the detail that she's full of shit, that name is a real gold mine. I take it she's Jewish but decided being Hispanic would pay off.

    ...and she's telling us about Hawaii -- in terms that make it clear she's utterly dishonest.

    'Aloha spirit,' my ass. It's an interesting place, and not too bad, overall, but diversity paradise?

    No. And it's irrelevant, but no one says 'Aloha' on Hawaii -- not unless they're being paid to say it. I counted. In eighteen months, four times somebody said it who wasn't being paid to say it. For practical purposes, 'aloha' means 'I'm being paid to say aloha.'

    That's okay, but hell -- 'Velasquez-Manoff' isn't writing about the actual Hawaiian Islands that are off there in the middle of the Pacific. She's constructing a fantasy to suit her ideological needs.

    I thought it was a bit cheesy when Samuel Coleridge-Taylor did that

  52. @Colin Wright
    Incidentally...

    Moises Velasquez-Manoff?

    Aside from the detail that she's full of shit, that name is a real gold mine. I take it she's Jewish but decided being Hispanic would pay off.

    ...and she's telling us about Hawaii -- in terms that make it clear she's utterly dishonest.

    'Aloha spirit,' my ass. It's an interesting place, and not too bad, overall, but diversity paradise?

    No. And it's irrelevant, but no one says 'Aloha' on Hawaii -- not unless they're being paid to say it. I counted. In eighteen months, four times somebody said it who wasn't being paid to say it. For practical purposes, 'aloha' means 'I'm being paid to say aloha.'

    That's okay, but hell -- 'Velasquez-Manoff' isn't writing about the actual Hawaiian Islands that are off there in the middle of the Pacific. She's constructing a fantasy to suit her ideological needs.

    Colin Wright:

    Constructions of Pacific fantasy-lands have a long and checkered history. A prime example being Margaret Mead’s Samoan fantasies (most likely cooked-up in Morningside Heights).

  53. @Jus' Sayin'...
    An acquaintance, who was born and raised in Hawaii, has told me that they practice an advanced form of affirmative action there. One racial group, say the Fillipinos, gets most of the police jobs, another, say the Japanese get most of the social worker jobs, and so on. (This is a made up example. I cannot remember the details of what he told me.) He also told me race relations, while not poisonous, are balanced on a knife edge. An otherwise minor accidental interaction that would amount to nothing if within a racial group, can explode into a potentially lethal encounter with absolutely no forewarning, nor any possibility of reconstructing why the situation headed south. Friends who spent years in Hawaii have told me the same thing. They emphasized how dangerous certain areas and situations are for Haoles. The tourists never see this and the people in charge apparently do their damdest to hide the true state of affairs.

    My impression as well. Just from “contacts” and a bit of tourist experience, mind you.

  54. @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    Robert Kiyosaki* wrote a book with Donald Trump!

    Also in your old domain of marketing is “Apple Chief Evangelist” Guy Kawasaki. I mention him because he would be horrified to be mentioned here. I like the advice his dad Hiram, a Honolulu politician, gave him: always dress better than your audience, out of respect for them. That’s still pretty casual in the Valley.

    Jake Shimabukuro is top dog in his particular field at the moment. For what that’s worth.

    But the most notable Japanese-Americans tend to come from the mainland– S I Hayakawa, Minoru Yamasaki, Francis Fukuyama… Have any other natives of Canada made it to the U.S. Senate? (Oh, yeah– Ted Cruz.)

    *Kiyosaki has a statuesque blond wife. Kawasaki may as well, but I’m not sure. Yamasaki’s second and third wives were white, possibly both blond too. His first and fourth was Japanese-American. Yes, was. She was the same woman.

  55. @Hail
    Surprised that nothing in the OP or the 40 comments so far mentions Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii). She spent the large majority of her formative years in Hawaii, and remains tied to the state today. Reports are that she moved there at age 2 (early 1980s) -- with mixed-race father of largely Samoan origin and apparently full-(NW)European mother from Indiana.

    She did not partake in Hawaii school life, though. She was homeschooled.

    Still in Hawaii by 2003 (the year she turned 22), Gabbard signed on with the Hawaii National Guard while combat operations in Iraq were still ongoing (April), putting an early political career on hold (or, for the cynically minded, making a grand investment in it) by volunteering to be deployed to Iraq in 2004. She was back in Hawaii soon enough, though, and earned a degree from Hawaii Pacific Univ. in 2009.

    Tulsi Gabbard is a Hawaiian in several senses:

    1.) by upbringing;
    2.) by race (mixed race with Polynesian component);
    3.) by 'culture' (her oddball choice of Hinduism as a religion);
    4.) perhaps by personality;
    5.) by choice (continuing to return, when talent so often leaves).

    Yes.

    As I asked in another tread, it would be good to see what is her take on reverse racism working there.
    “Beat a Haole” and similar stuff.

  56. Hawaii today has roughly the same demographics as Silicon Valley, but a snoozy tourism and pineapples economy.

    Hawaiian agriculture is unusual and perhaps interesting for that, but accounts for < 0.5% of value-added in the local economy. Arts / Entertainment / Accommodation / Recreation / Food Service is as important as any set of private industries, but still accounts for just 10% of all value-added. The state's per capita GDP is almost precisely the national mean.

  57. Or it could be that in Hawaii, the Japanese and Chinese are less likely to be descended from grad students and more likely to be descended from sugarcane workers?

    A million times this. If I’m not mistaken whites in Hawai’i actually do better academically than Asians. Perhaps because whites are largely descended from elites-cum-trust fund babies, while the Asians are descended from plantation workers.

    I had an ethnically Japanese friend in high school whose family had moved in from Hawai’i. Aside from some Hmong in our school she was the only Asian kid I knew who didn’t spend 80 hours a week studying. She was very connected to her Japanese roots, but she had nothing whatsoever to do with those other Asians.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Perhaps because whites are largely descended from elites-cum-trust fund babies, while the Asians are descended from plantation workers.

    By and large from people who fancy the climate more than whatever might have kept them at home. North of 80% of the haolie population was born outside Hawaii. (North of 85% of the ethnic Japanese were born in Hawaii).
  58. @Reg Cæsar

    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It’s a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.
     
    Same with Alaska. Tell the Puerto Ricans statehood is overrated.

    Interesting you mention Alaska, in a thread where there’s been some discussion of crime. For all the talk about inner city ghettos or meth-ridden Appalachian towns being hotbeds of crime, some of the most dangerous places in the US are the Native villages in Alaska. Being in small isolated communities brings out the worst in some people, police protection ranges from very inadequate to nonexistent, and everyone owns guns.

    • Agree: Bliss
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    I knew a savvy Tlingit who had his financial affairs in very good order, likely with outside counsel. That way he could relax and get wasted at the bar every weekend without damage to his future prospects.

    He weighed about twice the US average, so no one was going to pick a fight with him, lest he get smothered.
    , @Corn
    I’ve read that Native villages in Alaska can be really dystopian. Domestic violence rates through the roof, everyone stays in during the long winter drinking and fighting, alot of incest too I’ve heard, guys (sometimes sober but often drunk) will whittle the winter away by chasing the womenfolk under their own roof. Sad.
    , @Redneck farmer
    And they drink heavily.
    , @Loren
    see Drudge today about '10 million dollars to fight crime as Alaska is now crime central.'
  59. @Daniel H
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    But we are talking about a mean. The Asian population of Hawaii is large enough to be representative. Maybe the place is just too laid back. Maybe the fact that a larger proportion of the Asian population of Hawaii is Japanese. Japanese Americans must be the mellowest, most laid back ethnic group in this country. Maybe they have smarts but little initiative or are low T.

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful? I don't get the impression that they are. There are enough Japanese Americans that we should have seen a smaller scale storming of the Ivy gates by Japanese decades ago. Where was it?

    The Japanese did very well in the early 20th century America as commercial farmers, especially in California. They have strongly intermarried with whites to such an extent I don’t think there are a lot of purely Japanese in the US left. They never had a high level immigration to the US like the Chinese and the Koreans either.

    • Replies: @Loren
    strongly intermarried with Whites --How many White women marry japanese men? especially 30-80 years ago?
  60. @Steve Sailer
    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment, but nobody much pays attention to it, as we saw with the rise of Obama.

    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment

    It sure is geologically. The islands popped up to the surface about a million years apart, so they are at different stages of development. Hawaii, the island (and county) is the youngest, with the world’s largest (Mauna Kea) and most active (Kilauea) volcanoes. The former is taller than Everest when both are measured from the sea floor.

    A new island is due to appear to the south, in about 50,000 years. Get in on the ground floor now!

    The state has America’s weirdest county, as well. Most of Molokai is in Maui County. But a new county was erected in Fr Damien’s leper colony. It surpassed– or undercut– Loving County, Texas, as the least populated in the US.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    But a new county was erected in Fr Damien’s leper colony. It surpassed– or undercut– Loving County, Texas, as the least populated in the US.
     
    Any idea what happened over there, Reg? Epidermite Flight?
  61. Oh, come now, there was a proliferation of Hawaiian shaved ice “huts” that replaced all the sno-cone stands in the south. The “snow ” has been drifting back in of late since Obama’s presidency is over.

    And Hawaii should never have been made a state. I’m hoping West Coast the country will be formed from the secession and subsequent union of California, Hawaii, Oregon and Washington.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    And Hawaii should never have been made a state. I’m hoping West Coast the country will be formed from the secession and subsequent union of California, Hawaii, Oregon and Washington.
     
    One of these things (actually one and two thirds) is not like the other.

    Google "Northwest Front", a/k/a "Northwest American Republic".

    The top part of California (the part that wanted to be Jefferson State) is pretty white and rural. Fits with Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, and the part of Montana west of I-5.

    SoCal and Hawaii, then, might be a fit, sort of.

    Hawaiian independence and Brit Commonwealth membership would make even more sense as long as the US got a Gitmo like guarantee on keeping Pearl Harbor. Backed up by the 16" guns of the Mighty Mo, of course. Gets rid of the Democratic forever House and Senate contingent and a bastion of antiwhiteness.

    Once we get rid of pesky Puerto Rico.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-Q_caGJlY
  62. @prosa123
    Interesting you mention Alaska, in a thread where there's been some discussion of crime. For all the talk about inner city ghettos or meth-ridden Appalachian towns being hotbeds of crime, some of the most dangerous places in the US are the Native villages in Alaska. Being in small isolated communities brings out the worst in some people, police protection ranges from very inadequate to nonexistent, and everyone owns guns.

    I knew a savvy Tlingit who had his financial affairs in very good order, likely with outside counsel. That way he could relax and get wasted at the bar every weekend without damage to his future prospects.

    He weighed about twice the US average, so no one was going to pick a fight with him, lest he get smothered.

  63. johnd says: • Website

    Folk of post-war as well as pre-war Hawaii are intensely racially conscious. Some of Jack London’s stories of Old Hawaii gives a tasted of the real “aloha spirt”.

    Here is the real aloha spirit not mentioned an East Coast newspaper;
    https://www.amazon.com/Honolulu-Homicide-Murder-Mayhem-Paradise/dp/1573061565

    This socalled “aloha spirit” is really a marketing gimmink, nothing more.

  64. @Steve Sailer
    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment, but nobody much pays attention to it, as we saw with the rise of Obama.

    It’s a pleasant environment if your likes-and-dislikes emphasize certain things. About 60% of the population lives in urban Honolulu, a 2d tier city roughly the size of Buffalo or Nashville. The built environment there is utilitarian and modern (‘ticky-tacky’ in the words of a woman I knew who’d headed back to the mainland after a period of trial residency). For all the beautiful weather, it’s not a pedestrian friendly town. At the time BO was living there, the local university was the butt of jokes. In re the outer islands, the largest settlement on the Big Island has a population of about 35,000; that on Maui about 20,000; that on Kauai perhaps 12,000 if that. Traveling to the nearest city requires you take a scheduled flight and the round trip fare will set you back $150.

  65. @Wilkey

    Or it could be that in Hawaii, the Japanese and Chinese are less likely to be descended from grad students and more likely to be descended from sugarcane workers?

     

    A million times this. If I'm not mistaken whites in Hawai'i actually do better academically than Asians. Perhaps because whites are largely descended from elites-cum-trust fund babies, while the Asians are descended from plantation workers.

    I had an ethnically Japanese friend in high school whose family had moved in from Hawai'i. Aside from some Hmong in our school she was the only Asian kid I knew who didn't spend 80 hours a week studying. She was very connected to her Japanese roots, but she had nothing whatsoever to do with those other Asians.

    Perhaps because whites are largely descended from elites-cum-trust fund babies, while the Asians are descended from plantation workers.

    By and large from people who fancy the climate more than whatever might have kept them at home. North of 80% of the haolie population was born outside Hawaii. (North of 85% of the ethnic Japanese were born in Hawaii).

  66. @KunioKun
    Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S.

    My Chinese ancestry Hawaiian friend, upon hearing that I was visiting Oahu for the first time, just said to stay away from the western side. He didn’t really want to get into details.

  67. @prosa123
    Interesting you mention Alaska, in a thread where there's been some discussion of crime. For all the talk about inner city ghettos or meth-ridden Appalachian towns being hotbeds of crime, some of the most dangerous places in the US are the Native villages in Alaska. Being in small isolated communities brings out the worst in some people, police protection ranges from very inadequate to nonexistent, and everyone owns guns.

    I’ve read that Native villages in Alaska can be really dystopian. Domestic violence rates through the roof, everyone stays in during the long winter drinking and fighting, alot of incest too I’ve heard, guys (sometimes sober but often drunk) will whittle the winter away by chasing the womenfolk under their own roof. Sad.

    • Agree: prosa123, Bliss
  68. Anon[328] • Disclaimer says:

    Psychologists argue that “essentialist” thinking — ideas about human beings’ unchangeable essence, their inherent inferiority or the threat they supposedly pose — makes racism possible.

    I think the reason Dartmouth students stick with their own race in the dining hall is much simpler. Whites sense the creepy chip on the shoulders of blacks and don’t want to deal with it. Blacks sense that whites think blacks are dumber and got in under affirmative action, and blacks fear that it’s true. And so on. You can either eat in peace, or spend uncompensated emotional labor acting as a miniature United Nations during your meal.

  69. @Forbes
    The Kool-Aid is potent here. The Narrative is working overtime.

    Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    Now define diversity. Is that race/ethnic diversity? Socio-economic diversity? Intellectual diversity? Cultural diversity? Language diversity? Country of birth diversity? What?

    "Fairer verdicts"? Really? Measured how?

    More profitable? Are racial/ethnic minority-controlled firms more profitable than Caucasian-controlled firms?

    Researchers argue...blah, blah, blah...

    Think of certain planned communities’ ads. There are young, middle aged, elderly, white, black, hispanic, and Asian people shown there.
    Somehow, they ALL look alike.

  70. @Steve Sailer
    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It's a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.

    1970s was also when the new generations of airplanes allowed airlines to bypass Hawaii on the way between US mainland to/from Asia. I don’t think the original 747 could do it, but 747SP could do SFO/LAX-Tokyo without stop at HNL. The first flight for 747SP was 1976.

    A lot of personnel/logistic for the Vietnam War was also channeled through Hawaii.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    You bring up a good point, 1661er, but why didn't the older airliners (707s, DC-8s and even the Stratoliners/Stratocruisers) go closer to the great circle route - at least from places like Seattle - which could have made the fuel stop at Anchorage? Maybe some did, as I don't know this history.

    Anchorage faired very well though, anyway, as it's a big freight hub.
  71. @Daniel H
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    I haven't been to Hawaii, but from what I hear they don't take sh*t from anybody, and they are quick to use their fists.

    I know a guy who got his jaw broke by some locals. Maybe he had it coming, I don’t know. I’ve also heard from multiple sources that the locals like to beat up haoels with little or no provocation.

    I don’t think it’s quite the multi-cultural love-fest that this NYT chick imagines.

  72. Tim says:
    @KunioKun
    Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S.

    “Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S.”

    I remember when I was in elementary school, we got a new kid from Hawaii, and we thought that was fascinating–she lived in paradise. She was white and her Dad was enlisted in the Navy. I asked her what it was like–all I knew about Hawaii was that Greg Brady got lost for a week in the surf, and Bobby and Cindy Brady thought it might be because they had disrespected a Hawaiian totem.

    She said it was awful. The people all hated whites and called them ‘Haoles’. She said they were horrible to whites and she was so glad to be gone from that ‘paradise.’

    Years later–now, actually–I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands. I’m a JAG officer in the National Guard and there are always posts for what sound like really great jobs in the VI. I asked somebody from there why there are always openings for really great jobs in the VI National Guard, and she said, it’s horrible. It’s all inbred, they all hate each other, and if you go in there and take one of their really great jobs they are going to hate you even more. She said it’s completely crazy how openly hostile they are to whites. None of them are qualified for the position you have, but they aren’t gonna take orders from you. It’s utter dysfunction–all the way to the bottom.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    As another commenter explained to me previously, 'haole' isn't racist, it just mean 'haole.'

    Captain Cook: He's what's for dinner!

    , @Clifford Brown

    Years later–now, actually–I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
     
    I went to the USVI with some of rich liberal friends three years ago. The resort was incredibly beautiful and everything was impeccable, but because I have a screw loose I wanted to see the "real" US Virgin Islands and spent an afternoon visiting some villages as my cab driver took a liking to me. Brutal, rage inducing poverty and a constant looming threat of violence. The place is borderline crazy if you get off the tourist path. It's basically Baltimore with palm trees.

    End result, I left hating the place and decrying the inequality and extreme violence, while my wealthy liberal friends have no idea why I have such a negative perception of the place. I was completely disgusted by the living conditions. My cabbie was a great, good natured guy who was happy to show me the real USVI while keeping me safe.
  73. @Anonymous
    Never mind that the natives, the Real Hawaiians, are now a minority and take orders from whites, Asians, and mixed.

    Open borders in action.

  74. @prosa123
    Interesting you mention Alaska, in a thread where there's been some discussion of crime. For all the talk about inner city ghettos or meth-ridden Appalachian towns being hotbeds of crime, some of the most dangerous places in the US are the Native villages in Alaska. Being in small isolated communities brings out the worst in some people, police protection ranges from very inadequate to nonexistent, and everyone owns guns.

    And they drink heavily.

  75. @Flip

    increasingly viewed race as a permanent condition

     

    Seems pretty permanent to me.

    Ah, but what if you could convince people white is black and black white?

    -the wizards running our culture

  76. @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    Michelle Wie, the golfer?! Of course, she is from the post-war stock, not from the plantation workers stock.

  77. @Anon000
    Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7232/7263925032_e20f34656e_z.jpg

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    • Replies: @Bliss
    Another prominent example of Samoan admixture is Marcus Mariota the quarterback for the NFL team Tennessee Titans. He is a Heisman Trophy winner who took his college team to the National Championship His mother is of German ancestry:

    https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi/2531513278735/2017/1/1a084374449dd3be167b5c3f0d464960/Marcus-Mariota-Tennessee-Titans-QB-apologizes-to-reporters-after-earful-from-mom.jpg

    His younger brother Matt plays for the same college football team:

    https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/college-football/players/full/3930190.png
    , @syonredux

    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:
     
    His father has significant levels of European ancestry:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Vu3bE0m9yAM/TDcwU7j_6QI/AAAAAAAABfQ/OWW7KLY9tqk/s1600/6435918.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zSsByhrFjd8/UyYhlwk5KpI/AAAAAAAAFYk/evsVJd-xzgo/s1600/DSC_7576.jpg

    , @Bliss
    Another part Polynesian Hollywood star is Jason Momoa, his father is Hawaiian and mother is white-native american. He is married to the African-American actress Lisa Bonet:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Jason_Momoa%2C_Aquaman_%2845655623114%29.jpg/220px-Jason_Momoa%2C_Aquaman_%2845655623114%29.jpg
    , @Triumph104

    ... and his father was an African-American:
     
    Dwayne Johnson's father is a black Canadian or Afro-Canadian.
  78. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @miss marple
    Oh, come now, there was a proliferation of Hawaiian shaved ice "huts" that replaced all the sno-cone stands in the south. The "snow " has been drifting back in of late since Obama's presidency is over.

    And Hawaii should never have been made a state. I'm hoping West Coast the country will be formed from the secession and subsequent union of California, Hawaii, Oregon and Washington.

    And Hawaii should never have been made a state. I’m hoping West Coast the country will be formed from the secession and subsequent union of California, Hawaii, Oregon and Washington.

    One of these things (actually one and two thirds) is not like the other.

    Google “Northwest Front”, a/k/a “Northwest American Republic”.

    The top part of California (the part that wanted to be Jefferson State) is pretty white and rural. Fits with Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, and the part of Montana west of I-5.

    SoCal and Hawaii, then, might be a fit, sort of.

    Hawaiian independence and Brit Commonwealth membership would make even more sense as long as the US got a Gitmo like guarantee on keeping Pearl Harbor. Backed up by the 16″ guns of the Mighty Mo, of course. Gets rid of the Democratic forever House and Senate contingent and a bastion of antiwhiteness.

    Once we get rid of pesky Puerto Rico…..

  79. @Jus' Sayin'...
    An acquaintance, who was born and raised in Hawaii, has told me that they practice an advanced form of affirmative action there. One racial group, say the Fillipinos, gets most of the police jobs, another, say the Japanese get most of the social worker jobs, and so on. (This is a made up example. I cannot remember the details of what he told me.) He also told me race relations, while not poisonous, are balanced on a knife edge. An otherwise minor accidental interaction that would amount to nothing if within a racial group, can explode into a potentially lethal encounter with absolutely no forewarning, nor any possibility of reconstructing why the situation headed south. Friends who spent years in Hawaii have told me the same thing. They emphasized how dangerous certain areas and situations are for Haoles. The tourists never see this and the people in charge apparently do their damdest to hide the true state of affairs.

    An acquaintance, who was born and raised in Hawaii, has told me that they practice an advanced form of affirmative action there. One racial group, say the Fillipinos, gets most of the police jobs, another, say the Japanese get most of the social worker jobs, and so on.

    If the race groups don’t outmarry too much, you’ve pretty much got the makings of a caste-based society.That can make for long periods of relative social equilibrium.

  80. @Bliss
    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/48/4d/a4484db1e2c9ee67209e0d3e54142aef.jpg

    Another prominent example of Samoan admixture is Marcus Mariota the quarterback for the NFL team Tennessee Titans. He is a Heisman Trophy winner who took his college team to the National Championship His mother is of German ancestry:

    His younger brother Matt plays for the same college football team:

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Polynesians do very well at American Football. Further evidence that HBD is real:

    In his book "Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We Are Afraid to talk About It," published in 2000, author Jon Entine tackles the emotionally charged subject of genetic variation.
     

    In it, he wrote: "Polynesians, especially the Samoans, are amongst the world's most mesomorphic (muscular) body types. A number of studies have shown that muscle bulk and the degree of muscularity, especially in the thigh and buttock, are important predictors of success in rugby players, whereas the opposite applies in such sports as distance running. This genetic admixture helps in part explain why athletes from this region are large, agile and fast."
     

    The development of muscles in the thigh and buttocks area is very useful on the NFL field, particularly along the line of scrimmage, where strength, leverage and balance are important factors. It is worth noting that 21 of those 28 Samoans in the NFL play along the offensive or defensive line. Their strength, essentially, is their strength.
     
    http://www.espn.com/gen/s/2002/0527/1387627.html
  81. Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    I am sure that these are some real gold-standard studies (if they really exist). I’d especially like to see how they cooked-up the study that says “diverse companies are more profitable.”

    • Replies: @L Woods
    That point wouldn’t surprise me, but of course they have the arrow of causation deliberately reversed: the Fortune 500 titans are the ones that can afford the wasteful signaling that diversity provides. Cargo cultism at its finest.
    , @Colin Wright
    'Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    I am sure that these are some real gold-standard studies (if they really exist). I’d especially like to see how they cooked-up the study that says “diverse companies are more profitable.”'

    Some positive results might also be a consequence of the lack of trust 'diversity' brings in its train.

    If the a worksite is multi-cultural, nobody's going to be really sure what they can and can't get away with -- so they'll try to at least look busy. That might be good, in a way, but perhaps for the wrong reasons.

    I'm reminded of when I taught high school in a neighborhood that was about 70% Hispanic and 30% Asian. One of the simplest devices in my tool kit to stop Hispanic girls from talking in class was to seat an Asian boy in their midst.

    Diversity! And it worked. Whether I was actually introducing a new and happier world is another matter.
  82. @Anonymous
    Yeah, they are so tough that they lost their homeland to not only whites but Asians.

    what else could they do?
    their culture, circa 1850, was stone age or close to it.
    I lived there for a year.
    Hawaiians, often poor, obese and angry. I can relate.

    PARADISE LOST.

  83. @Dennis Dale
    I remember asking that as he was ascending, shouldn't he be telling us "hey, I'm a mixed race kid from Hawaii and I'm here to tell you how diversity can work well"?

    But no, what we got was his faking the urban background he brought home like an anthropologist from a few visits to a black barber shop, and all the same assumptions.

    One reason is demagogy pays in racial politics--nobody wanted to hear the good news. I suspect it also had a lot to do with that dearth of blacks in Hawaii. Diversity without blacks is not diversity. Tragically, it might be the most viable sort.

    Barack is in every way a refutation of woke anti-racism. He can't forgive us for that. He wanted to be heroic. Blending in in Hawaii galled his narcissistic ass.

    poet Frank Marshall? davis?
    poet?? Are you talking about Obamas presumed daddy? the guy who has a mole on his face in the same place Obama does.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Obama was conceived about 5 months after the Dunhams arrived in Hawaii. At the time they'd rented a house in Hawaii Kai, a peripheral suburb on the southeastern end of the island. Frank Marshall Davis lived 15 miles away. He earned his living running a small company that distributed paper products. He'd have had no reason other than random chance to cross paths with any of the Dunhams. He's known to have been in Stanley Dunham's circle of friends ca. 1971. No one to date has demonstrated he was acquainted with the Dunhams in 1960. He was 37 years older than Ann Dunham and had a wife and children in residence. Barack Obama Sr was six years older than Ann Dunham, his wife was thousands of miles away, and he was student enrolled at the same school as Ann Dunham and in at least one of the same classes.
  84. @Bliss
    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/48/4d/a4484db1e2c9ee67209e0d3e54142aef.jpg

    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    His father has significant levels of European ancestry:

    • Replies: @Bliss
    He is black american. Like Obama is black american. His son, The Rock, honors his legacy:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dwayne-the-rock-johnson-mtv-movie-tv-awards_n_5d083713e4b095327838fc03

    Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson accepted the Generation Award at the 2019 MTV Movie & TV Awards, telling fans that “the most powerful thing that we can be is ourselves.” made a choice. I was not going to conform to Hollywood. Hollywood was going to conform to me,” he added. Johnson went on to say that he’s “proudly half black and half Samoan.”
  85. One person told me that government jobs went to Hawaiians [brown asians] as they were too stupid
    to get jobs elsewhere.

    I was sucker punched while on Big isle and a friend wa badly beaten. by hawaiians.

    lots of good comments here.

  86. @prosa123
    Interesting you mention Alaska, in a thread where there's been some discussion of crime. For all the talk about inner city ghettos or meth-ridden Appalachian towns being hotbeds of crime, some of the most dangerous places in the US are the Native villages in Alaska. Being in small isolated communities brings out the worst in some people, police protection ranges from very inadequate to nonexistent, and everyone owns guns.

    see Drudge today about ’10 million dollars to fight crime as Alaska is now crime central.’

    • Replies: @tyrone
    YES!! Alaska is a gold mine of white criminals!….cop show paradise! Who wants to see another dumb black kid shoot another dumb black kid when you can see a white guy poaching moose!
  87. @Bliss
    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/48/4d/a4484db1e2c9ee67209e0d3e54142aef.jpg

    Another part Polynesian Hollywood star is Jason Momoa, his father is Hawaiian and mother is white-native american. He is married to the African-American actress Lisa Bonet:

  88. @Unladen Swallow
    The Japanese did very well in the early 20th century America as commercial farmers, especially in California. They have strongly intermarried with whites to such an extent I don't think there are a lot of purely Japanese in the US left. They never had a high level immigration to the US like the Chinese and the Koreans either.

    strongly intermarried with Whites –How many White women marry japanese men? especially 30-80 years ago?

  89. @syonredux

    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:
     
    His father has significant levels of European ancestry:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Vu3bE0m9yAM/TDcwU7j_6QI/AAAAAAAABfQ/OWW7KLY9tqk/s1600/6435918.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zSsByhrFjd8/UyYhlwk5KpI/AAAAAAAAFYk/evsVJd-xzgo/s1600/DSC_7576.jpg

    He is black american. Like Obama is black american. His son, The Rock, honors his legacy:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dwayne-the-rock-johnson-mtv-movie-tv-awards_n_5d083713e4b095327838fc03

    Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson accepted the Generation Award at the 2019 MTV Movie & TV Awards, telling fans that “the most powerful thing that we can be is ourselves.” made a choice. I was not going to conform to Hollywood. Hollywood was going to conform to me,” he added. Johnson went on to say that he’s “proudly half black and half Samoan.”

    • Replies: @syonredux

    He is black american.
     
    He's from Canada:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Johnson

    Like Obama is black american.
     
    Obama is half European.
    , @syonredux

    Johnson went on to say that he’s “proudly half black and half Samoan.”
     
    The average Black person in the USA and Canada is approx 20% European. Judging on his appearance, I would guess that the Rock's father is rather more European than average in terms of his ancestry.
  90. @syonredux

    Mixed-race people, who make up nearly a quarter of Hawaii’s population of 1.4 million, serve as a kind of jamming mechanism for people’s race radar, Dr. Pauker thinks. Because if you can’t tell what people are by looking at them — if their very existence blurs the imagined boundaries between supposedly separate groups — then race becomes a less useful way to think about people.
     
    Or, you know, maybe it's because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries.....

    researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    Yeah, that must be why Japan is a third-world hellhole, while Mexico and Brazil are first-world powerhouses....

    Want to agree but my hour is not up yet.

  91. The “aloha spirit” may hold a deep lesson for all of us.

    I suspect the “aloha spirit” at the Punahou School, where the elite could coddle their multiracial offspring, differed from the “aloha spirit” in the Hawaiian public schools where the less fortunate Japanese and white population had to deal with the lumpen Polynesian underclass. White students got the “aloha spirit” good and hard on “Beat Haole Day,” when Polynesians would run riot through the schools knocking over desks and beating the shit out of any Haole with the temerity to show up for classes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    When the New Yorker's surfing correspondent William Finnegan met Barack Obama, Obama was amazed that Finnegan's parents had let a high IQ white kid like him go to a public school in Honolulu.
    , @Prusmc
    Remember Middle Weight Champion Carl "Bobo" Olsan? What was his story?
    , @Art Deco
    The homicide rate in Hawaii is about 1/2 the national mean, the employment-to-population ratio is about average, < 1% of the population is collecting TANF, and perhaps 3.3% are living in subsidized housing. The place doesn't have much of an underclass.
    , @Don't Look at Me
    My kids, half white and half Asian, go to a public school. Private schools are beyond my income level. I asked about Beat Haole Day and they said it wasn't a thing. Might not be the case in all schools though.
  92. In the future, all AI produced material in the NYTimes will have bylines like ‘Moises Velasquez-Manoff.’

  93. @Tim
    "Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S."


    I remember when I was in elementary school, we got a new kid from Hawaii, and we thought that was fascinating--she lived in paradise. She was white and her Dad was enlisted in the Navy. I asked her what it was like--all I knew about Hawaii was that Greg Brady got lost for a week in the surf, and Bobby and Cindy Brady thought it might be because they had disrespected a Hawaiian totem.

    She said it was awful. The people all hated whites and called them 'Haoles'. She said they were horrible to whites and she was so glad to be gone from that 'paradise.'

    Years later--now, actually--I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands. I'm a JAG officer in the National Guard and there are always posts for what sound like really great jobs in the VI. I asked somebody from there why there are always openings for really great jobs in the VI National Guard, and she said, it's horrible. It's all inbred, they all hate each other, and if you go in there and take one of their really great jobs they are going to hate you even more. She said it's completely crazy how openly hostile they are to whites. None of them are qualified for the position you have, but they aren't gonna take orders from you. It's utter dysfunction--all the way to the bottom.

    As another commenter explained to me previously, ‘haole’ isn’t racist, it just mean ‘haole.’

    Captain Cook: He’s what’s for dinner!

  94. Mixed-race people, who make up nearly a quarter of Hawaii’s population of 1.4 million, serve as a kind of jamming mechanism for people’s race radar, Dr. Pauker thinks. Because if you can’t tell what people are by looking at them — if their very existence blurs the imagined boundaries between supposedly separate groups — then race becomes a less useful way to think about people.

    And then there’s Latin America, that oasis of race-mixing, where mulattoes still hope to breed with whites some day in order to ‘improve the race’ (mejorar la raza) so that their descendents won’t have kinky (‘bad’) hair, also known as pelo malo.

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving …

    They get good at problem-solving through experience, because diversity causes so many problems!

  95. @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    > How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    From NAEP data, the closer the US states are to Asia the less smart they are. Hawaii is just second lowest next to that for Alaska. West coast Chinese are mostly descendants of the legacy gold miners and railroad builders from Guandong. The Guandong average provincial IQ is below the Chinese national average. The number in Silicon Valley does nothing for California. The new professional Chinese immigrants are displaced further to the east. The further to the east away from Asia the smarter.

    • Replies: @Tired of Not Winning
    Most Chinese who are rich enough to emigrate, especially to to the US, are corrupt government officials/businessmen and/or their average IQ and lazy offspring. Corrupt people who are smart enough to swindle a lot of money may be a little smarter than average, but they tend not to be of high IQ, probably around 105-125. Truly high IQ people(>145) tend to be morally upright, as they tend to be highly educated in the STEM field. That's my theory and observation anyway.
  96. @Dennis Dale
    I remember asking that as he was ascending, shouldn't he be telling us "hey, I'm a mixed race kid from Hawaii and I'm here to tell you how diversity can work well"?

    But no, what we got was his faking the urban background he brought home like an anthropologist from a few visits to a black barber shop, and all the same assumptions.

    One reason is demagogy pays in racial politics--nobody wanted to hear the good news. I suspect it also had a lot to do with that dearth of blacks in Hawaii. Diversity without blacks is not diversity. Tragically, it might be the most viable sort.

    Barack is in every way a refutation of woke anti-racism. He can't forgive us for that. He wanted to be heroic. Blending in in Hawaii galled his narcissistic ass.

    0bama got mau-maued big-time by Bobby Rush the first time he ran for Congress in 2000. He got crushed.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Silly me. I lived in that district during the campaign and, due to not knowing much about him, had a fairly high opinion of Obama. I thought that Rush put paid to Obama’s political ambitions.
  97. The take-away policy recommendation – reduce whites to 25% of the population.

  98. @Bliss
    The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, one of Hollywood’s (and Pro Wrestling’s) biggest superstars, is also a Samoan mix: his mother is the daughter of a Samoan chief and his father was an African-American:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/48/4d/a4484db1e2c9ee67209e0d3e54142aef.jpg

    … and his father was an African-American:

    Dwayne Johnson’s father is a black Canadian or Afro-Canadian.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    Dwayne Johnson’s father is a black Canadian or Afro-Canadian.

     

    Thanks for the correction:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Johnson

    A Black Nova Scotian, he is descended from Black Loyalists who immigrated to Nova Scotia after escaping from a southern plantation in the United States after the American Revolutionary War, and also has a small amount of Irish ancestry.

    Along with his partner Tony Atlas, Johnson was a part of the first black tag team to win the World Tag Team championship in the World Wrestling Federation (WWF)

    Johnson married into a prolific Samoan wrestling family, which included the Anoa'i family, by marrying "High Chief" Peter Maivia's daughter Ata Maivia

    Johnson is the first non-Samoan to be named High Chief, and was given the title High Chief Tafiaiafi.
     
  99. @Anonymous
    I met her briefly, and she is very nice in person.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard

    The Hindu is a cult sect.

    I met her briefly, and she is very nice in person.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard

    The Hindu is a cult sect.

    Yeah. Further, her mother was a Hindu also (though a convert) and Gabbard was raised in that tradition. If there’s anyone oddball in this situation, it’s her mother.

  100. @BB753
    The mean IQ in Hawaii is probably not very high, due to the Hawaiian natives and Philipinos in the mix. If Hawaii was 80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White, it would be more like Taiwan and less like Puerto Rico, if you get my drift.

    The mean IQ in Hawaii is probably not very high, due to the Hawaiian natives and Philipinos in the mix. If Hawaii was 80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White, it would be more like Taiwan and less like Puerto Rico, if you get my drift.

    Hawaii is a state not a country. East Asian countries have immigration laws that control and in some areas elminate foreign competition. East Asian immigration laws also keep a lot of the talent from leaving. Hawaii doesn’t have that. Three hundred million Americans would have the right to descend on Hawaii and dilute the theoretical “80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White” population. Singapore has millions of immigrants and carefully maintains its population at about 75 percent Chinese, 15 percent Malay, 7 percent Indian, and 3 percent other – something that is obviously illegal in the US. In fact, some states have shipped out their permantly homeless (mentally ill and/or substance abusers) to Hawaii and they are overburdening the healthcare system and criminal justice system. East Asia doesn’t have that sort of nonsense.

  101. A bit of googling shows that many colleges actually do have “Mixed-Race Students Unions,” but somehow they seem not to get the attention of the Black Students Union, La Raza, etc.

    I wonder how long it will take people of mixed race to realize they are sort of being treated as leftovers in the struggle for spoils (unless, of course, they simply identify as a full-blooded NAM)? And to stir up some attention in the mass media?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    '...I wonder how long it will take people of mixed race to realize they are sort of being treated as leftovers in the struggle for spoils (unless, of course, they simply identify as a full-blooded NAM)? And to stir up some attention in the mass media?'

    I don't think we're going to go there. For starters, 95% of the 'blacks' who actually benefit from affirmative action and so on are actually mulattoes and quadroons.

    ...and no one else cares. Asians don't need special treatment, and Hispanics tend to turn into just more white people over the course of about two generations.
  102. Lot says:
    @Colin Wright
    Incidentally...

    Moises Velasquez-Manoff?

    Aside from the detail that she's full of shit, that name is a real gold mine. I take it she's Jewish but decided being Hispanic would pay off.

    ...and she's telling us about Hawaii -- in terms that make it clear she's utterly dishonest.

    'Aloha spirit,' my ass. It's an interesting place, and not too bad, overall, but diversity paradise?

    No. And it's irrelevant, but no one says 'Aloha' on Hawaii -- not unless they're being paid to say it. I counted. In eighteen months, four times somebody said it who wasn't being paid to say it. For practical purposes, 'aloha' means 'I'm being paid to say aloha.'

    That's okay, but hell -- 'Velasquez-Manoff' isn't writing about the actual Hawaiian Islands that are off there in the middle of the Pacific. She's constructing a fantasy to suit her ideological needs.

    “Moises Velasquez-Manoff?

    Aside from the detail that she’s full of shit, that name is a real gold mine. I take it she’s Jewish but decided being Hispanic would pay off.”

    Moises is Spanish for Moses and a common Christian first name in Latin America.

    In this case he looks like an albino.

  103. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Hawaii Statehood is a pretty good example of a good idea that really wasn't.

    Hawaii seems to be a place as good as any for nonblack nonwhites, but isn't particularly good for whites, except for vacations. Regular blacks don't fare well there either, but they don't fare well anywhere by nonblack standards.


    A phony autobiography of an alleged "Honolulu Madam"-actually a thinly disguised smut novel-of the same title inadvertently presents a text book view circa 1969 of what the conventional wisdom was regarding Hawaii then. If one can find a copy, it's worht a read provided you know that it is in fact not an autobiography but a library-read synopsis of the conventional view of things Hawaiian, interspersed with some abject smut written obviously by a man trying to write from a female perspective.


    Honolulu Madam
    Mitsuko, Iolana

    Los Angeles: Holloway House, 1969. 316p., wraps lightly worn.

    Alleged autobiography of a "beautiful half-caste in a white world" who worked her way to the top of the prostitution game in Honolulu.

    Cat.No: 196990


    ISBN: 0870674277

    Price: $12.00

    https://www.bolerium.com/pictures/196990.jpg?v=1508873467

    You posted this before. I guess she reminds you of Debbie Harry.

  104. @JimB

    The “aloha spirit” may hold a deep lesson for all of us.
     
    I suspect the “aloha spirit” at the Punahou School, where the elite could coddle their multiracial offspring, differed from the “aloha spirit” in the Hawaiian public schools where the less fortunate Japanese and white population had to deal with the lumpen Polynesian underclass. White students got the “aloha spirit” good and hard on “Beat Haole Day,” when Polynesians would run riot through the schools knocking over desks and beating the shit out of any Haole with the temerity to show up for classes.

    When the New Yorker’s surfing correspondent William Finnegan met Barack Obama, Obama was amazed that Finnegan’s parents had let a high IQ white kid like him go to a public school in Honolulu.

    • Replies: @Thirdtwin
    Does Obama still visit Bobby Titcomb every Christmas?
  105. @Anon000
    Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7232/7263925032_e20f34656e_z.jpg

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    In terms of her genetics she’s overwhelmingly european. Her mom was white, her dad was a mix.

  106. @Loren
    see Drudge today about '10 million dollars to fight crime as Alaska is now crime central.'

    YES!! Alaska is a gold mine of white criminals!….cop show paradise! Who wants to see another dumb black kid shoot another dumb black kid when you can see a white guy poaching moose!

  107. Hawaii is the most subsidized place in the US. The military industrial complex has been very very good to HI. Hawaii’s modest population gets the same 2 senators Cali gets. I personally think US islands PR, HI, VI and Samoa should be one state.

  108. @Loren
    poet Frank Marshall? davis?
    poet?? Are you talking about Obamas presumed daddy? the guy who has a mole on his face in the same place Obama does.

    Obama was conceived about 5 months after the Dunhams arrived in Hawaii. At the time they’d rented a house in Hawaii Kai, a peripheral suburb on the southeastern end of the island. Frank Marshall Davis lived 15 miles away. He earned his living running a small company that distributed paper products. He’d have had no reason other than random chance to cross paths with any of the Dunhams. He’s known to have been in Stanley Dunham’s circle of friends ca. 1971. No one to date has demonstrated he was acquainted with the Dunhams in 1960. He was 37 years older than Ann Dunham and had a wife and children in residence. Barack Obama Sr was six years older than Ann Dunham, his wife was thousands of miles away, and he was student enrolled at the same school as Ann Dunham and in at least one of the same classes.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Frank Marshall Davis was the head of the communist party in Hawaii, such as it was, basically him and Stanley Dunham. He was Stanley Dunham’s best friend.

    Davis May have owned a small business. But his commie White wife was a Chicago heiress and completely supported the family and their communist activities.

    Davis was kicked out of the NAACP both in Chicago and Hawaii because of his communism.
    Obama’s auto biographies have a lot about his being mentored by his fathers black best friend who tutored him about race politics and communism.

    Whether he was Obama’s father or not, between the 3 communists, Davis and grandparents, Obama was raised to be a half black half White liberal politician

    Grandpa Stanley Davis was on an FBI surveillance list during WW2 as a person ineligible for a security clearance in some defense plants because of his communist activism.

    Too bad the FBI didn’t deny the security clearances to the communists who ran Los Alamos.

    Great job, FBI allow the atom bomb
    R&D scientists and machinists to be a communist operation that sent the information to Russia but deny security clearances to people who applied to work producing jeeps.
  109. “Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies. And the United States is not only becoming more diverse, it’s also growing more mixed. Mixed-race people are among the fastest-growing segments of the population — between 2.6 percent and 6.9 percent of the population, depending on the study. By 2060, the segment is projected to double.”

    According to studies I read at The Economics Detective, a Canadian site, diverse groups and companies lower productivity. It was only at the highest IQ level that diversity succeeded. Intra group mixed groups of similar race, say whites from CA with whites from the US South worked and produced better than groups from one area.

    Reading this NYT’s article, you might think the author has a pre-conceived conclusion and agenda…

  110. @Steve Sailer
    When the New Yorker's surfing correspondent William Finnegan met Barack Obama, Obama was amazed that Finnegan's parents had let a high IQ white kid like him go to a public school in Honolulu.

    Does Obama still visit Bobby Titcomb every Christmas?

  111. @JimB

    The “aloha spirit” may hold a deep lesson for all of us.
     
    I suspect the “aloha spirit” at the Punahou School, where the elite could coddle their multiracial offspring, differed from the “aloha spirit” in the Hawaiian public schools where the less fortunate Japanese and white population had to deal with the lumpen Polynesian underclass. White students got the “aloha spirit” good and hard on “Beat Haole Day,” when Polynesians would run riot through the schools knocking over desks and beating the shit out of any Haole with the temerity to show up for classes.

    Remember Middle Weight Champion Carl “Bobo” Olsan? What was his story?

  112. @Anon000
    Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7232/7263925032_e20f34656e_z.jpg

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    Never vote with your d*ck.

  113. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Tulsi would far and away be the sexiest President.

    Sexier than Rutherford B. Hayes? I don’t think so.

    • LOL: Kylie, HammerJack
  114. @Hypnotoad666

    Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

     

    I am sure that these are some real gold-standard studies (if they really exist). I'd especially like to see how they cooked-up the study that says "diverse companies are more profitable."

    That point wouldn’t surprise me, but of course they have the arrow of causation deliberately reversed: the Fortune 500 titans are the ones that can afford the wasteful signaling that diversity provides. Cargo cultism at its finest.

  115. The place where they have a ‘beat whitey’ day in schools and we should look to them?

    • Replies: @Haole
    Not beat Haole, it is Kill Haole.
  116. @Colin Wright
    Well, to start with, the speaker's wishful thinking notwithstanding, Hawaii is not some sort of multi-ethnic paradise.

    The schools notoriously have 'beat up a Haole Day.' The ethnic Japanese (politely) monopolize the levers of power. Everyone thinks the 'Portuguese' are scum. Everyone thinks the Filipinos are scum. There are multiple castes of whites.

    The Japanese go to Japanese doctors. Etc. If a perfect absence of any sense of community is what you're looking for, Hawaii might be the place for you. It's not bad, but...

    Yes, miscegenation has been rife, and most people are actually some sort of mixture of something --but they all have their own community, and it definitely isn't Hawaiian.

    ...unless of course, you're Hawaiian. But there aren't very many of those.

    ...rather comically, though, everyone knows exactly what to do with blacks. American blacks who try moving to rural Hawaii can find themselves very quickly being made unwelcome -- in no uncertain terms.

    This is all true.

    I am Obama’s age and lived in Hono during HS.

    Punahou at the time had rough ethnic cliques though, at least there were cliques dominated by one race or the other.

    I got jumped one year on Kill Haole Day.

    Bull Conner was nicer to blacks than the HPD which effectively kept them away from Waikiki. HPD was predominantly local. The Feds were investigating HPD over this at the time.

    Japanese ran the place.

    Polynesians hated blacks. I saw some tormenting a young black kid for no reason with taunts of Kunta Kinte.

    The openness story is myth.

    • Replies: @Mike
    Punahou is a school for elites. The locals could care less about the blacks. The hating is reserved for the haole.

    I grew up in Kailua and left at 18. Never went back. Hawaii is very racist, but it's ok as long as your racism is reserved for whites. I still hate the word "haole" and I'm older than Obama.

    Always annoys me when the media pushes the white racists stuff. Browns are as good or better at being racist.
  117. @bigduke6
    Not sure why you didn't include a picture of the author with this post, Steve. It's all relevant.

    Not sure why you didn’t include a picture of the author with this post, Steve. It’s all relevant.

    Shaved head…maybe he’s just trying to be cool. But shaved eyebrows?

  118. @Triumph104

    ... and his father was an African-American:
     
    Dwayne Johnson's father is a black Canadian or Afro-Canadian.

    Dwayne Johnson’s father is a black Canadian or Afro-Canadian.

    Thanks for the correction:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Johnson

    A Black Nova Scotian, he is descended from Black Loyalists who immigrated to Nova Scotia after escaping from a southern plantation in the United States after the American Revolutionary War, and also has a small amount of Irish ancestry.

    Along with his partner Tony Atlas, Johnson was a part of the first black tag team to win the World Tag Team championship in the World Wrestling Federation (WWF)

    Johnson married into a prolific Samoan wrestling family, which included the Anoa’i family, by marrying “High Chief” Peter Maivia’s daughter Ata Maivia

    Johnson is the first non-Samoan to be named High Chief, and was given the title High Chief Tafiaiafi.

  119. @bigduke6
    Not sure why you didn't include a picture of the author with this post, Steve. It's all relevant.

    He won the James Beard Award for Food and Health, so he is obviously a qualified Scientist!

  120. On a recent trip to Maui, the place looked a lot more third world than I remembered from my last visit 25 years ago, with much more visible inequality. Grocery stores, mostly run by Filipinos, were expensive, cramped and dirty. Restaurants were very expensive while service, again mostly by Filipinos, was extremely poor. Food was poorly cooked and the dishes were dirty, and this was at an expensive restaurant in a main tourist area. Most buildings looked like they were built in the 70’s. We saw lots of rusty abandoned cars along the highway. The local paper reported car prowls and other property crimes on the rise.

    The previously swanky hotel Hana Maui, now called Travaasa, used to be surrounded by pristine, secluded grounds and was a popular celebrity hide-out, is now surrounded by a slum and had to be fenced off.

    In general, there are a lot more Filipinos than I remembered, which is no wonder that the place is increasingly looking like the Philippines.

    Stereotypes are formed for a reason, it’s because they are usually true.

  121. …white, Filipino, Hawaiian…

    No future for people who describe themselves as lower case common nouns.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Yeah, but if I capitalize “white”, it would be rayciss to not capitalize “black”.
  122. @Anon
    Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.

    Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.

    Having been to Maui recently, I would have to concur. All the locals, regardless of race, are trashy and/or fat.

    • Replies: @Anon
    The "hot Hawaiian women" are mostly tourists.
  123. @JimB

    The “aloha spirit” may hold a deep lesson for all of us.
     
    I suspect the “aloha spirit” at the Punahou School, where the elite could coddle their multiracial offspring, differed from the “aloha spirit” in the Hawaiian public schools where the less fortunate Japanese and white population had to deal with the lumpen Polynesian underclass. White students got the “aloha spirit” good and hard on “Beat Haole Day,” when Polynesians would run riot through the schools knocking over desks and beating the shit out of any Haole with the temerity to show up for classes.

    The homicide rate in Hawaii is about 1/2 the national mean, the employment-to-population ratio is about average, < 1% of the population is collecting TANF, and perhaps 3.3% are living in subsidized housing. The place doesn't have much of an underclass.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    ' The place doesn't have much of an underclass.'

    Oh. Next time you're around where I lived on the Big Island, take a walk around the village of Miloli'i. Then head on over to Ocean View.
    , @JimB
    I don’t think looking at stats gives you such a clear picture of Hawaii. The entire public sector is more or less an employment agency for the undereducated Polynesian population, and there is ample tax revenue to fund it from tourists and mainlanders with vacation property. I will grant you that Polynesians lack the homicidal urges of blacks but their illegitimacy rate is high. It’s probably no accident that Disney made a cartoon about a Hawaiian kid with anger issues being raised by her sister and regularly visited by a social worker. Partly this could be do to the fact that when you live in paradise, the best things in life actually are free so you tend to be less angry. Not only that, you have a somewhat greater incentive to stay out of jail when the surf is up.
  124. @Tiny Duck
    The solution is simple but you guys don't like it

    If there are not enough whites to contaminate the institutions then there is no racism

    white men=bad stuff

    Almost ALL People of Color agree

    Most POCs I know are much more racist than whites. Indians hate Pakistanis. Indian upper castes hate the lower castes, even outside India. Light skin Indians look down on dark skin Indians. Yellow Asians look down on brown Asians like Filipinos or Cambodians. Indians and Chinese look down on each other. All Asians look down on hispanics and blacks. Cubanos look down on Puerto Ricans and Chicanos, Chicanos look down on Salvadorans, Nicaraguans and Guatemalans. White hispanics look down on brown hispanics. Light skin blacks look down on dark skin blacks.

    It’s no different than among whites: Anglos used to look down on the Nordics and Alpines, who looked down on the Irish, Southern Europeans and Slavs, who looked down on the Jews.

    And regardless of race, within each group, the rich hate the poor.

    My point is, everyone is racist. It’s human nature to distrust those who look and sound vastly different from you. Modern humans have existed for 200,000 years, but it’s only in the last 500 years that we’ve started mixing and mingling. Our prejudices have been formed for far too long to be eliminated in just a few decades.

  125. @Steve Sailer
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    Sunshine has been known to slow the flow of blood and retard the brain, hence the term “lazy coconut blood clot”.

  126. Few pineapples are grown in Hawaii anymore.

  127. @Bliss
    He is black american. Like Obama is black american. His son, The Rock, honors his legacy:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dwayne-the-rock-johnson-mtv-movie-tv-awards_n_5d083713e4b095327838fc03

    Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson accepted the Generation Award at the 2019 MTV Movie & TV Awards, telling fans that “the most powerful thing that we can be is ourselves.” made a choice. I was not going to conform to Hollywood. Hollywood was going to conform to me,” he added. Johnson went on to say that he’s “proudly half black and half Samoan.”

    He is black american.

    He’s from Canada:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Johnson

    Like Obama is black american.

    Obama is half European.

    • Agree: TWS
  128. @Bliss
    He is black american. Like Obama is black american. His son, The Rock, honors his legacy:

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dwayne-the-rock-johnson-mtv-movie-tv-awards_n_5d083713e4b095327838fc03

    Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson accepted the Generation Award at the 2019 MTV Movie & TV Awards, telling fans that “the most powerful thing that we can be is ourselves.” made a choice. I was not going to conform to Hollywood. Hollywood was going to conform to me,” he added. Johnson went on to say that he’s “proudly half black and half Samoan.”

    Johnson went on to say that he’s “proudly half black and half Samoan.”

    The average Black person in the USA and Canada is approx 20% European. Judging on his appearance, I would guess that the Rock’s father is rather more European than average in terms of his ancestry.

  129. @deBrutus
    > How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    From NAEP data, the closer the US states are to Asia the less smart they are. Hawaii is just second lowest next to that for Alaska. West coast Chinese are mostly descendants of the legacy gold miners and railroad builders from Guandong. The Guandong average provincial IQ is below the Chinese national average. The number in Silicon Valley does nothing for California. The new professional Chinese immigrants are displaced further to the east. The further to the east away from Asia the smarter.

    http://i67.tinypic.com/2925ytk.png

    Most Chinese who are rich enough to emigrate, especially to to the US, are corrupt government officials/businessmen and/or their average IQ and lazy offspring. Corrupt people who are smart enough to swindle a lot of money may be a little smarter than average, but they tend not to be of high IQ, probably around 105-125. Truly high IQ people(>145) tend to be morally upright, as they tend to be highly educated in the STEM field. That’s my theory and observation anyway.

    • Replies: @deBrutus
    http://i66.tinypic.com/1zo836s.png
  130. @Bliss
    Another prominent example of Samoan admixture is Marcus Mariota the quarterback for the NFL team Tennessee Titans. He is a Heisman Trophy winner who took his college team to the National Championship His mother is of German ancestry:

    https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi/2531513278735/2017/1/1a084374449dd3be167b5c3f0d464960/Marcus-Mariota-Tennessee-Titans-QB-apologizes-to-reporters-after-earful-from-mom.jpg

    His younger brother Matt plays for the same college football team:

    https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/college-football/players/full/3930190.png

    Polynesians do very well at American Football. Further evidence that HBD is real:

    In his book “Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We Are Afraid to talk About It,” published in 2000, author Jon Entine tackles the emotionally charged subject of genetic variation.

    In it, he wrote: “Polynesians, especially the Samoans, are amongst the world’s most mesomorphic (muscular) body types. A number of studies have shown that muscle bulk and the degree of muscularity, especially in the thigh and buttock, are important predictors of success in rugby players, whereas the opposite applies in such sports as distance running. This genetic admixture helps in part explain why athletes from this region are large, agile and fast.”

    The development of muscles in the thigh and buttocks area is very useful on the NFL field, particularly along the line of scrimmage, where strength, leverage and balance are important factors. It is worth noting that 21 of those 28 Samoans in the NFL play along the offensive or defensive line. Their strength, essentially, is their strength.

    http://www.espn.com/gen/s/2002/0527/1387627.html

  131. @Daniel H
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    But we are talking about a mean. The Asian population of Hawaii is large enough to be representative. Maybe the place is just too laid back. Maybe the fact that a larger proportion of the Asian population of Hawaii is Japanese. Japanese Americans must be the mellowest, most laid back ethnic group in this country. Maybe they have smarts but little initiative or are low T.

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful? I don't get the impression that they are. There are enough Japanese Americans that we should have seen a smaller scale storming of the Ivy gates by Japanese decades ago. Where was it?

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful?

    Most Japanese who emigrated to the US pre-WWII were farmers. Since WWII, emigration from Japan has been reduced to a trickle. In the 80’s when Japanese companies started to expand abroad, they only sent the worst managers, and kept all the good ones at home. Today the Japanese make up the smallest of all East Asian groups in the US, around 800,000, and both men and women have the highest outmarriage rate. The ones who are still pure blood are by now third/fourth generation, i.e. fat and lazy like everyone else.

    • Replies: @1661er
    Sometime people got exiled to US branch not because they are bad, but because they are perceived as"better culture fit in America." The most famous example was Yutaka Katayama, aka Nissan's Mr. K. He was exiled rather than fired because he was untouchable at Nissan due to
    https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/02/23/yutaka-katayama-the-father-of-the-datsun-z-dead-at-105/

    In 1935, after graduating from Keio University, Mr. K was recruited to Nissan Motor Company by Yoshisuke Aikawa, a distant relative and a founding member of the Japanese automaker.
     
    https://youtu.be/3LPWpzNWO88?t=57
  132. @Hypnotoad666

    Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

     

    I am sure that these are some real gold-standard studies (if they really exist). I'd especially like to see how they cooked-up the study that says "diverse companies are more profitable."

    ‘Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    I am sure that these are some real gold-standard studies (if they really exist). I’d especially like to see how they cooked-up the study that says “diverse companies are more profitable.”’

    Some positive results might also be a consequence of the lack of trust ‘diversity’ brings in its train.

    If the a worksite is multi-cultural, nobody’s going to be really sure what they can and can’t get away with — so they’ll try to at least look busy. That might be good, in a way, but perhaps for the wrong reasons.

    I’m reminded of when I taught high school in a neighborhood that was about 70% Hispanic and 30% Asian. One of the simplest devices in my tool kit to stop Hispanic girls from talking in class was to seat an Asian boy in their midst.

    Diversity! And it worked. Whether I was actually introducing a new and happier world is another matter.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    Actually, your comment reminded me that the only rigorous study of diversity -- by Robert Putnam -- showed that it pretty much sucks. A "diverse" community is actually an alienated and distrustful community. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/robert-putnam-diversity-research-distorted-putnam/


    Of course Putnam's study is memory holed and will never be mentioned by the NYT when discussing why "diversity is our strength" is supposedly science-y.
  133. @syonredux

    Mixed-race people, who make up nearly a quarter of Hawaii’s population of 1.4 million, serve as a kind of jamming mechanism for people’s race radar, Dr. Pauker thinks. Because if you can’t tell what people are by looking at them — if their very existence blurs the imagined boundaries between supposedly separate groups — then race becomes a less useful way to think about people.
     
    Or, you know, maybe it's because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries.....

    researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    Yeah, that must be why Japan is a third-world hellhole, while Mexico and Brazil are first-world powerhouses....

    maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..

    So genius, what “biological race” do mixed race people belong to?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..

    So genius, what “biological race” do mixed race people belong to?
     
    What species do wolf-dog hybrids belong to?
  134. Did the author mean Frank Marshall Davis as an eccentric black who moved to Hawaii?

  135. @PhysicistDave
    A bit of googling shows that many colleges actually do have "Mixed-Race Students Unions," but somehow they seem not to get the attention of the Black Students Union, La Raza, etc.

    I wonder how long it will take people of mixed race to realize they are sort of being treated as leftovers in the struggle for spoils (unless, of course, they simply identify as a full-blooded NAM)? And to stir up some attention in the mass media?

    ‘…I wonder how long it will take people of mixed race to realize they are sort of being treated as leftovers in the struggle for spoils (unless, of course, they simply identify as a full-blooded NAM)? And to stir up some attention in the mass media?’

    I don’t think we’re going to go there. For starters, 95% of the ‘blacks’ who actually benefit from affirmative action and so on are actually mulattoes and quadroons.

    …and no one else cares. Asians don’t need special treatment, and Hispanics tend to turn into just more white people over the course of about two generations.

  136. @Art Deco
    The homicide rate in Hawaii is about 1/2 the national mean, the employment-to-population ratio is about average, < 1% of the population is collecting TANF, and perhaps 3.3% are living in subsidized housing. The place doesn't have much of an underclass.

    ‘ The place doesn’t have much of an underclass.’

    Oh. Next time you’re around where I lived on the Big Island, take a walk around the village of Miloli’i. Then head on over to Ocean View.

  137. @Art Deco
    The homicide rate in Hawaii is about 1/2 the national mean, the employment-to-population ratio is about average, < 1% of the population is collecting TANF, and perhaps 3.3% are living in subsidized housing. The place doesn't have much of an underclass.

    I don’t think looking at stats gives you such a clear picture of Hawaii. The entire public sector is more or less an employment agency for the undereducated Polynesian population, and there is ample tax revenue to fund it from tourists and mainlanders with vacation property. I will grant you that Polynesians lack the homicidal urges of blacks but their illegitimacy rate is high. It’s probably no accident that Disney made a cartoon about a Hawaiian kid with anger issues being raised by her sister and regularly visited by a social worker. Partly this could be do to the fact that when you live in paradise, the best things in life actually are free so you tend to be less angry. Not only that, you have a somewhat greater incentive to stay out of jail when the surf is up.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I don’t think looking at stats gives you such a clear picture of Hawaii. The entire public sector is more or less an employment agency for the undereducated Polynesian population,

    How do you fancy other states manage to staff the public sector absent a population of dopey Polynesians? Or is it your contention that all public sectors are dumping grounds for idiots?

    About 12% of value-added is attributable to the public sector in the country at large, which encompasses about 14% of all employed persons. About 18% of value-added in Hawaii is attributable to the public sector, so you would imagine that public employment is more common there. The Hawaii state government maintains that 20.6% of the local working population consists of public employees:

    http://files.hawaii.gov/dbedt/economic/reports/SelectedRacesCharacteristics_HawaiiReport.pdf

    About 1/4 of the population of Hawaii claims some Polynesian ancestry. The bean counters for the state of Hawaii don't in the foregoing report indicate where mixed race persons are working, but they do indicate the share of workers from various ethnic groups employed in the public sector. As you can see, it varies between 3.4% and 30% depending on the group. Of the major Polynesian groups - Hawaiian and Samoan - just north of 21% of those working are public employees.

    Were the number of uniformed military deployed to Hawaii about average given the state's population, you'd expect to find north of 6,000 men in uniform. There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii, and that largely accounts for the excess number of public employees in the state. I don't think Polynesians are exceptionally common in the Armed Services.

  138. @Achmed E. Newman

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    ... and diverse aerospace companies put diverse men.. oops, nowhere near the moon. I like that "researchers argue" bit too. Yeah, they may argue a lot of things, but then China is probably the strongest economy in the world, yet is not very diverse at all, and the most powerful economy ever seen in relative terms was 1950's - '70's America. Show me the diversity, lady.

    Still, for an all-expenses trip to lovely Hawaii, I'd write about diversity too. Say aloha to Steve McGarrett and Dano for me - now there's some diversity (though, you can't disregard Chin Ho entirely ... )

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts

    How, pray tell, did they arrive at that conclusion? Are they omniscient?

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    "Diversity is next to godliness" is, I'd guess, their mantra now, Ben. I'd put it slightly differently: Diversity is next to perversity.
    , @Alden
    White men are the best at both solving problems and preventing them from developing

    Some black men are as good was Whites that way. But 95% of blacks never solve problems just argue about it. Asians try to ignore them.

    Hispanic Americans, I mean Americans are pretty good at solving and preventing problems.
  139. @Anonymous
    I met her briefly, and she is very nice in person.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard

    The Hindu is a cult sect.

    Tulsi does seem very nice and genuine, but there is something a bit masculine in her face, mannerisms, and speech patterns.

    I can’t figure out if that touch of masculinity is nature or nuture. I also wonder if she affects or exaggerates certain mannerisms for the public eye.

    I do like the gray streak. That’s a difficult look for a younger woman to pull off, but it looks sharp on Tulsi and lends her a bit of physical gravitas.

    I am pretty bleh about her gun control and open borders positions. I need her to do a 180 on those, but I know that is wishful thinking.

    • Replies: @Haole
    She looks like the kind of woman who plays softball or works at Home depot in Hawaii. Native hawaiian and samoan woman seem to have a high number of lesbians.
  140. @WowJustWow
    Do they have special tribal arrangements with the federal government like mainland Native Americans?

    No, but there are a few trying to become ethnic activists who occasionally talk about becoming designated tribes with their own lands.

    They talk and then go back to the beach.

  141. @Diversity is Great!
    Off topic —

    EDITORIAL
    Cadet program is a first step in diversity at Boston Fire Department


    When Mayor Martin J. Walsh signed a home rule petition to start a cadet program at the Boston Fire Department, he took a small but important step toward fulfilling his commitment to diversify a city agency that desperately needs a new look.

    Now comes the hard part: getting from promise to program, and then to real change.

    Legislative approval is needed to set up the cadet program. State Representative Chynah Tyler, who filed the bill on behalf of Walsh, said, via e-mail, she will work “my hardest to get as much support as possible from my colleagues and hopefully pass this bill.” But it’s Walsh’s job to let Beacon Hill leaders know this is a priority — and not just cover for an administration that’s falling short on all kinds of diversity results. Walsh should also make sure Boston Fire Commissioner Joseph Finn is on board; if not, he’s not the leader Walsh or Boston needs.
     

    For years, the Boston Fire Department has resisted serious reform. The most recent department class has 52 men and one woman. Because of the physical demands, it has been harder for women around the country to break into firefighting. Yes, the job involves muscular strength to carry heavy equipment and manage a hose line with 150 pounds of water pressure, but women with such physical stamina are not impossible to find. Plus, the firefighting job has evolved. A 2016 study found that only 4 percent of fire department calls nationwide were fires and 64 percent involved medical emergencies, which can be handled by both men and women.
     
    :)

    I’ve never once met a female firefighter who met the standards. I’ve never even heard of one.

  142. “Fucking Haoles”. Growing up I heard that all the time from locals. No different than hearing “fucking niggers.”

    Anyone that doesn’t think Hawaii is racist must be a tourist. Live there. You’ll see.

  143. @Curle
    This is all true.

    I am Obama’s age and lived in Hono during HS.

    Punahou at the time had rough ethnic cliques though, at least there were cliques dominated by one race or the other.

    I got jumped one year on Kill Haole Day.

    Bull Conner was nicer to blacks than the HPD which effectively kept them away from Waikiki. HPD was predominantly local. The Feds were investigating HPD over this at the time.

    Japanese ran the place.

    Polynesians hated blacks. I saw some tormenting a young black kid for no reason with taunts of Kunta Kinte.

    The openness story is myth.

    Punahou is a school for elites. The locals could care less about the blacks. The hating is reserved for the haole.

    I grew up in Kailua and left at 18. Never went back. Hawaii is very racist, but it’s ok as long as your racism is reserved for whites. I still hate the word “haole” and I’m older than Obama.

    Always annoys me when the media pushes the white racists stuff. Browns are as good or better at being racist.

  144. @1661er
    1970s was also when the new generations of airplanes allowed airlines to bypass Hawaii on the way between US mainland to/from Asia. I don't think the original 747 could do it, but 747SP could do SFO/LAX-Tokyo without stop at HNL. The first flight for 747SP was 1976.

    A lot of personnel/logistic for the Vietnam War was also channeled through Hawaii.

    You bring up a good point, 1661er, but why didn’t the older airliners (707s, DC-8s and even the Stratoliners/Stratocruisers) go closer to the great circle route – at least from places like Seattle – which could have made the fuel stop at Anchorage? Maybe some did, as I don’t know this history.

    Anchorage faired very well though, anyway, as it’s a big freight hub.

    • Replies: @1661er
    I am sure airline did that and some airline still does it seasonally when the headwind is strong enough to require refueling for some shorter range jets. But I doubt passengers disembark or do stopovers in ANC.

    Compare Pan Am's routes from HNL in 1970's
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S1kaIBqJrio/TtdUw_NAGoI/AAAAAAAAAsQ/Hvpm6ycUx1E/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/pan+am+post+card+map.jpg

    With UA which brought Pan Am's Pacific route network more recently, only Tokyo remain as international route, and that's mainly targeting tourist from Japan and maybe Japanese-Americans in Hawaii. Not really for people from lower 48 to connect on their way to Asia.

    http://pointmetotheplane.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/United-Asia-Pacific.jpg
  145. @ben tillman

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts
     
    How, pray tell, did they arrive at that conclusion? Are they omniscient?

    “Diversity is next to godliness” is, I’d guess, their mantra now, Ben. I’d put it slightly differently: Diversity is next to perversity.

  146. Paging Spike Gomes.

    • Replies: @Spike Gomes
    You rang?

    Lots to unpack here, so as the resident (part)-Hawaiian of isteve, I'm going to give it my best shot to answer some of the repeated themes here.

    First off, yes, there is a "Kill Haole" day, but it's nowhere near the peak of the phenomenon, which was the late 60s-early 80s, as the early 1990s coincided with a state crackdown on fighting and other forms of extreme physical bullying. Nowdays, "Kill Haole Day" is confined to rougher schools like Farrington and Campbell, with other schools having "no-go" bathrooms and hang-out spots for whites on that day (usually in April). It's non-existent in private schools, public schools in good neighborhoods, and places where the whites fight back collectively and hard (schools with large amounts of military brats).

    It's unpleasant, but this sort of behavior is rarely "for blood", despite the gruesomeness of the name. The primary goal is humiliation. Hence, one is more likely to get dragged into a bathroom and have their head dunked in an unflushed toilet than to have the stuffing beat out of them. You will get a minor beating if you fight back hard, and you will lose since it'll be ten to one, but at the same time you'll gain a measure of respect, and locals will give you less sh*t in the future.

    Yeah, in general there is a lot of hostility to outsiders here, whether they're white, black or what have you. The best way to deal with it is thus: If it's passive-aggressive joking and comments, just smile and play along with it, be the butt of the joke. Mind you, observations on ethnic origin, religion and stereotypes is very common and accepted by locals, and it might not even be hostile at all. Locals often will comment on even negative ethnic stereotypes without it really being targeted at an individual. If the verbal stuff starts getting overt and targeted, just be silent and stoic, and if it's physical, give back as good as you get... unless you're in a bar or around drunk people. Sh*t get's stupid then, but even then situational awareness of the kind of place the drunk people are will save your ass.

    Speaking of, yes there are ethnic niches here, including for white people. Some of them are remarkably specific. For example, nearly every stonemason here will be Tongan. The Japanese used to be power-brokers for the state here, but that's changed with their demographic decline. They're older, fewer, and the smartest and most talented of their youngest generally leave for greener and more affordable pastures on the mainland. There's still some places like Hilo where they control everything, but now they're forced to share power. Back in the day, from the 1960s-1980s was their peak, though they were most a political and administrative class (including Unions, which are almost a branch of the government here). Economic power was held by the Big Five (Five sugar companies that became land companies, mostly owned collectively by old money Caucasians going back to the 1800s), the Bishop Estate (ostensibly a non-profit for the benefit of Hawaiian education, but mostly run by white and Asian mainline Protestants), and a Chinese mercantile class which ran most of the retail here. Hawaiians were often employed either as blue collar workers by the government, or as entertainers or "face" in the burgeoning tourist industry if they were lucky.

    That economic and political situation changed as more white mainlanders and more FOB Asians moved here in the 70s-80s. The money dumped in here by Japanese investors in the 1980s as well as the widescale opening to national chains and cable television also did a number. Now the political situation is thus: The Dems are completely dominant here, an utter supermajority, with a few Republicans hanging on for dear life in a handful of districts that either have a large retired military population, or a large Evangelical or Mormon Polynesian population. The Dems are divided between two teams, the one that is usually dominant is the old power bloc founded by the Japanese-Americans, which now shares power with most local Asians and Polynesians. It's surprisingly socially conservative, but defers to the national party on plank issues, and it's power and money is located in the Unions, both private and governmental, blue collar voters born here, and the rural districts of the neighboring islands and real estate companies. The Bloc that is not dominant *here* (though they tend to go to the Senate and House of Reps more often than not) is comprised of socially progressive SWPLs originally from the mainland, college educated locals who can't speak pidgin convincingly but somehow never got around to leaving the state, and politically radical Hawaiians who would prefer a restoration of the Kingdom of Hawaii. These two blocs fight a bit over the levers, with the fault lines usually being environmental and cultural concerns (like the recent brouhaha over the new telescopes planned on Mauna Kea).

    The state has a major problem with brain-drain, it really has nothing to offer the talented born here, and even if you're well connected, the price of living is high and home ownership is an impossibility. For those not well connected, and picked a stupid degree in religious studies at the local university, well, I'm a security guard with a Master's Degree. I really should have stayed in STEM, but then, I don't think a botany degree would have me doing much better here.

    That's enough for now.

    Anyone got any questions?
  147. @Art Deco
    Obama was conceived about 5 months after the Dunhams arrived in Hawaii. At the time they'd rented a house in Hawaii Kai, a peripheral suburb on the southeastern end of the island. Frank Marshall Davis lived 15 miles away. He earned his living running a small company that distributed paper products. He'd have had no reason other than random chance to cross paths with any of the Dunhams. He's known to have been in Stanley Dunham's circle of friends ca. 1971. No one to date has demonstrated he was acquainted with the Dunhams in 1960. He was 37 years older than Ann Dunham and had a wife and children in residence. Barack Obama Sr was six years older than Ann Dunham, his wife was thousands of miles away, and he was student enrolled at the same school as Ann Dunham and in at least one of the same classes.

    Frank Marshall Davis was the head of the communist party in Hawaii, such as it was, basically him and Stanley Dunham. He was Stanley Dunham’s best friend.

    Davis May have owned a small business. But his commie White wife was a Chicago heiress and completely supported the family and their communist activities.

    Davis was kicked out of the NAACP both in Chicago and Hawaii because of his communism.
    Obama’s auto biographies have a lot about his being mentored by his fathers black best friend who tutored him about race politics and communism.

    Whether he was Obama’s father or not, between the 3 communists, Davis and grandparents, Obama was raised to be a half black half White liberal politician

    Grandpa Stanley Davis was on an FBI surveillance list during WW2 as a person ineligible for a security clearance in some defense plants because of his communist activism.

    Too bad the FBI didn’t deny the security clearances to the communists who ran Los Alamos.

    Great job, FBI allow the atom bomb
    R&D scientists and machinists to be a communist operation that sent the information to Russia but deny security clearances to people who applied to work producing jeeps.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Grandpa Stanley Davis was on an FBI surveillance list during WW2 as a person ineligible for a security clearance in some defense plants because of his communist activism.

    Who is 'Stanley Davis', and from what corner of the Wacky World of Websites did you obtain this gem?


    Frank Marshall Davis traveled to Hawaii as an official of the West Coast longshoremen, work he'd abandoned by 1960. The Communist Party lost over 80% of its membership between 1947 and 1972. People quit banging their heads against the wall and do something else with their life.

    Stanley Dunham sold furniture and insurance for a living and his wife was in charge of escrow accounts at the Bank of Hawaii. Two quite ordinary people in every respect but their habit (over a 20 year period) of pulling up stakes every few years. No clue how this pair of bourgeois got transmogrifed into 'communists' in your head.



    But his commie White wife was a Chicago heiress and completely supported the family and their communist activities.

    Frank Marshall Davis' mother-in-law was a farmer's daughter from western Michigan. It's conceivable she had money from her 2d husband, who appears to have had some sort of financial sector job. And, it's conceivable her 1st husband (who'd grown up the ward of a flush businessman) had come into money from his guardians at some point. (His own employments were quite unremarkable). Her 1st husband died in 1960 and she in 1970, so it's a reasonable inference Helen Davis wouldn't have had her hands any family money until she was 37 and her husband was 55 (and the Communist Party was a small sect of no consequence).
  148. Anonymous[672] • Disclaimer says:

    21st Century genomics has discovered that the main racial division in humanity is between sub-Saharan Africans and the rest of the world. Hawaii is a place where blacks are a tiny and well-selected fraction of the population.

    Not entirely – the oldest (ca. 300,000 years) and thus DEEPEST division is between the Khoi/San (aka Hottentots or bushmen), now confined to SW Africa, and the rest of us. The next population to split off from the mainstream were the central African forest pygmies (“foragers”).

    There have been persistent reports of other Africans killing and eating pygmies whom they appear to regard as another type of “bush meat.” Cannibalism among mainstream Africans appears to be very rare despite ongoing civil war conditions in some countries.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Homo_sapiens_lineage.svg

  149. @Reg Cæsar

    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It’s a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.
     
    Same with Alaska. Tell the Puerto Ricans statehood is overrated.

    Big problem for PR is statehood means income tax.

  150. A daughter in law is from Hawaii. Her Dads an old hippy Norwegian surfer. Mom Portuguese surname.

    Daughter in law enlisted in coast guard in high school went off to basic training right after 18th birthday. Her Moms a para legal works and lives in California. She can’t stand working in Hawaii because the Island Mentality affects legal work as much as it affects everything else.

    They call Hawaii Welfare Island. They tell me the economic base is the military and welfare checks.

  151. @WowJustWow
    Do they have special tribal arrangements with the federal government like mainland Native Americans?

    No. A long story, use Google.

  152. @ben tillman

    Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts
     
    How, pray tell, did they arrive at that conclusion? Are they omniscient?

    White men are the best at both solving problems and preventing them from developing

    Some black men are as good was Whites that way. But 95% of blacks never solve problems just argue about it. Asians try to ignore them.

    Hispanic Americans, I mean Americans are pretty good at solving and preventing problems.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    White men are the best at both solving problems and preventing them from developing
     
    You, apparently have never worked under/with white mid level and senior corporate management. Lucky guy.

    And.......haha....I mean, if "we" are so good in preventing problems, how the HELL we got into this situation in the first place?

    The first rule of conflict is "know you own troops". Make of that what you will.
  153. “..if you can’t tell what people are by looking at them — if their very existence blurs the imagined boundaries between supposedly separate groups — then race becomes a less useful way to think about people.”

    Wrong. Whites just need to be able to tell how different from themselves others look. To what particular group[s] those others belong is less important than determining how different they look from whites.

  154. @Reg Cæsar

    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment
     
    It sure is geologically. The islands popped up to the surface about a million years apart, so they are at different stages of development. Hawaii, the island (and county) is the youngest, with the world's largest (Mauna Kea) and most active (Kilauea) volcanoes. The former is taller than Everest when both are measured from the sea floor.

    A new island is due to appear to the south, in about 50,000 years. Get in on the ground floor now!

    The state has America's weirdest county, as well. Most of Molokai is in Maui County. But a new county was erected in Fr Damien's leper colony. It surpassed-- or undercut-- Loving County, Texas, as the least populated in the US.

    But a new county was erected in Fr Damien’s leper colony. It surpassed– or undercut– Loving County, Texas, as the least populated in the US.

    Any idea what happened over there, Reg? Epidermite Flight?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Any idea what happened over there, Reg? Epidermite Flight?
     
    I'd say go ask them. But you'd need a permit first:


    http://www.hawaiihighways.com/kalawao-mule-trail-warning-closeup.jpg

    Did you know that Thalidomide is still approved for use with Hansen's disease, aka leprosy? I've read that younger women have to show the use of two forms of birth control to get a prescription.


    https://www.who.int/lep/research/thalidomide/en/

  155. @TWS
    The place where they have a 'beat whitey' day in schools and we should look to them?

    Not beat Haole, it is Kill Haole.

  156. @The Wild Geese Howard
    Tulsi does seem very nice and genuine, but there is something a bit masculine in her face, mannerisms, and speech patterns.

    I can't figure out if that touch of masculinity is nature or nuture. I also wonder if she affects or exaggerates certain mannerisms for the public eye.

    I do like the gray streak. That's a difficult look for a younger woman to pull off, but it looks sharp on Tulsi and lends her a bit of physical gravitas.

    I am pretty bleh about her gun control and open borders positions. I need her to do a 180 on those, but I know that is wishful thinking.

    She looks like the kind of woman who plays softball or works at Home depot in Hawaii. Native hawaiian and samoan woman seem to have a high number of lesbians.

  157. @Alden
    White men are the best at both solving problems and preventing them from developing

    Some black men are as good was Whites that way. But 95% of blacks never solve problems just argue about it. Asians try to ignore them.

    Hispanic Americans, I mean Americans are pretty good at solving and preventing problems.

    White men are the best at both solving problems and preventing them from developing

    You, apparently have never worked under/with white mid level and senior corporate management. Lucky guy.

    And…….haha….I mean, if “we” are so good in preventing problems, how the HELL we got into this situation in the first place?

    The first rule of conflict is “know you own troops”. Make of that what you will.

  158. @Tired of Not Winning

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful?
     
    Most Japanese who emigrated to the US pre-WWII were farmers. Since WWII, emigration from Japan has been reduced to a trickle. In the 80's when Japanese companies started to expand abroad, they only sent the worst managers, and kept all the good ones at home. Today the Japanese make up the smallest of all East Asian groups in the US, around 800,000, and both men and women have the highest outmarriage rate. The ones who are still pure blood are by now third/fourth generation, i.e. fat and lazy like everyone else.

    Sometime people got exiled to US branch not because they are bad, but because they are perceived as”better culture fit in America.” The most famous example was Yutaka Katayama, aka Nissan’s Mr. K. He was exiled rather than fired because he was untouchable at Nissan due to
    https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/02/23/yutaka-katayama-the-father-of-the-datsun-z-dead-at-105/

    In 1935, after graduating from Keio University, Mr. K was recruited to Nissan Motor Company by Yoshisuke Aikawa, a distant relative and a founding member of the Japanese automaker.

  159. @Lot
    Speaking of Hawaii, how have they been getting their fair share of asylum seekers and refugees?

    For the Tulsifans:

    “Tulsi Gabbard on Immigration Reform

    Key Points



    Tulsi is urgently fighting for legislation to protect millions of young people from deportation with end of DACA (Deferred Actions for Childhood Arrivals)
    Tulsi has worked with the Hawai’i ACLU, Hawai’i Civil Rights Coalition, Hawai’i Coalition for Immigrant Rights and the National Immigration Law Center to work towards meaningful immigration reform
    See also Keeping Families Together
    Legislation

    H.R. 3440 DREAM Act
    H.R. 532 Dreamer Information Protection Act, which prohibits using DACA hearings for deportation
    H.R. 496 Bridge Act, which codifies the DACA program
    H.R. 392: Tulsi co-sponsored the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, which would remove the existing per-country cap on employment-based green cards and ensure all immigrants are treated equally regardless of their country of origin.
    Tulsi’s Statements/Video

    “The Trump Administration's use of children as pawns in the immigration debate is despicable and must end immediately. We obviously need comprehensive immigration reform.” https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1008898814365667328
    “Private prisons & detention centers hold disproportionate numbers of undocumented people, including minors. We need immigration reform.” https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/924274573310246913
    “I joined over 190 colleagues today & introduced the #KeepFamiliesTogether Act (HR 6135) to end the inhumane practice of taking children from their parents at the border. We need comprehensive immigration reform, but using children for leverage in immigration debate is despicable.” https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1009508400672182277
    "Immigration is a tremendous economic benefit for Hawai'i and our country as a whole. Passing the #DreamAct will help, but we have much more work left to do." https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard/status/931703519207481345
    Tulsi’s House speech urging passage of the DREAM Act: https://youtu.be/vYOluTLLd0c
    Tulsi calls on Congress to pass DREAM Act: https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/video-rep-tulsi-gabbard-calls-congress-pass-dream-act”

    Hahaha, Obama can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Basketball.

  160. @Alden
    Frank Marshall Davis was the head of the communist party in Hawaii, such as it was, basically him and Stanley Dunham. He was Stanley Dunham’s best friend.

    Davis May have owned a small business. But his commie White wife was a Chicago heiress and completely supported the family and their communist activities.

    Davis was kicked out of the NAACP both in Chicago and Hawaii because of his communism.
    Obama’s auto biographies have a lot about his being mentored by his fathers black best friend who tutored him about race politics and communism.

    Whether he was Obama’s father or not, between the 3 communists, Davis and grandparents, Obama was raised to be a half black half White liberal politician

    Grandpa Stanley Davis was on an FBI surveillance list during WW2 as a person ineligible for a security clearance in some defense plants because of his communist activism.

    Too bad the FBI didn’t deny the security clearances to the communists who ran Los Alamos.

    Great job, FBI allow the atom bomb
    R&D scientists and machinists to be a communist operation that sent the information to Russia but deny security clearances to people who applied to work producing jeeps.

    Grandpa Stanley Davis was on an FBI surveillance list during WW2 as a person ineligible for a security clearance in some defense plants because of his communist activism.

    Who is ‘Stanley Davis’, and from what corner of the Wacky World of Websites did you obtain this gem?

    Frank Marshall Davis traveled to Hawaii as an official of the West Coast longshoremen, work he’d abandoned by 1960. The Communist Party lost over 80% of its membership between 1947 and 1972. People quit banging their heads against the wall and do something else with their life.

    Stanley Dunham sold furniture and insurance for a living and his wife was in charge of escrow accounts at the Bank of Hawaii. Two quite ordinary people in every respect but their habit (over a 20 year period) of pulling up stakes every few years. No clue how this pair of bourgeois got transmogrifed into ‘communists’ in your head.

    But his commie White wife was a Chicago heiress and completely supported the family and their communist activities.

    Frank Marshall Davis’ mother-in-law was a farmer’s daughter from western Michigan. It’s conceivable she had money from her 2d husband, who appears to have had some sort of financial sector job. And, it’s conceivable her 1st husband (who’d grown up the ward of a flush businessman) had come into money from his guardians at some point. (His own employments were quite unremarkable). Her 1st husband died in 1960 and she in 1970, so it’s a reasonable inference Helen Davis wouldn’t have had her hands any family money until she was 37 and her husband was 55 (and the Communist Party was a small sect of no consequence).

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    from what corner of the Wacky World of Websites did you obtain this gem?
     
    That's rich, coming from you with over half a million words' worth of assertions on this site alone, buttressed by roughly zero citations.
  161. @Bliss

    maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..
     
    So genius, what “biological race” do mixed race people belong to?

    maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..

    So genius, what “biological race” do mixed race people belong to?

    What species do wolf-dog hybrids belong to?

    • Replies: @Bliss
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?
  162. @Achmed E. Newman
    You bring up a good point, 1661er, but why didn't the older airliners (707s, DC-8s and even the Stratoliners/Stratocruisers) go closer to the great circle route - at least from places like Seattle - which could have made the fuel stop at Anchorage? Maybe some did, as I don't know this history.

    Anchorage faired very well though, anyway, as it's a big freight hub.

    I am sure airline did that and some airline still does it seasonally when the headwind is strong enough to require refueling for some shorter range jets. But I doubt passengers disembark or do stopovers in ANC.

    Compare Pan Am’s routes from HNL in 1970’s

    With UA which brought Pan Am’s Pacific route network more recently, only Tokyo remain as international route, and that’s mainly targeting tourist from Japan and maybe Japanese-Americans in Hawaii. Not really for people from lower 48 to connect on their way to Asia.

  163. @JimB
    I don’t think looking at stats gives you such a clear picture of Hawaii. The entire public sector is more or less an employment agency for the undereducated Polynesian population, and there is ample tax revenue to fund it from tourists and mainlanders with vacation property. I will grant you that Polynesians lack the homicidal urges of blacks but their illegitimacy rate is high. It’s probably no accident that Disney made a cartoon about a Hawaiian kid with anger issues being raised by her sister and regularly visited by a social worker. Partly this could be do to the fact that when you live in paradise, the best things in life actually are free so you tend to be less angry. Not only that, you have a somewhat greater incentive to stay out of jail when the surf is up.

    I don’t think looking at stats gives you such a clear picture of Hawaii. The entire public sector is more or less an employment agency for the undereducated Polynesian population,

    How do you fancy other states manage to staff the public sector absent a population of dopey Polynesians? Or is it your contention that all public sectors are dumping grounds for idiots?

    About 12% of value-added is attributable to the public sector in the country at large, which encompasses about 14% of all employed persons. About 18% of value-added in Hawaii is attributable to the public sector, so you would imagine that public employment is more common there. The Hawaii state government maintains that 20.6% of the local working population consists of public employees:

    http://files.hawaii.gov/dbedt/economic/reports/SelectedRacesCharacteristics_HawaiiReport.pdf

    About 1/4 of the population of Hawaii claims some Polynesian ancestry. The bean counters for the state of Hawaii don’t in the foregoing report indicate where mixed race persons are working, but they do indicate the share of workers from various ethnic groups employed in the public sector. As you can see, it varies between 3.4% and 30% depending on the group. Of the major Polynesian groups – Hawaiian and Samoan – just north of 21% of those working are public employees.

    Were the number of uniformed military deployed to Hawaii about average given the state’s population, you’d expect to find north of 6,000 men in uniform. There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii, and that largely accounts for the excess number of public employees in the state. I don’t think Polynesians are exceptionally common in the Armed Services.

    • Replies: @Hail

    There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii
     
    As usual, this is subject to a certain multiplier for dependent family members and also civilians attached to the military. Both groups, it could be presumed, fit the IQ profiles of the 'military men' (i.e., few low-IQers sub-90 or so, and zero below the the IQ83 cutoff).

    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    Hawaii is at a stable 1.4 million population in the 2010s. If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military.

  164. Hail says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    I don’t think looking at stats gives you such a clear picture of Hawaii. The entire public sector is more or less an employment agency for the undereducated Polynesian population,

    How do you fancy other states manage to staff the public sector absent a population of dopey Polynesians? Or is it your contention that all public sectors are dumping grounds for idiots?

    About 12% of value-added is attributable to the public sector in the country at large, which encompasses about 14% of all employed persons. About 18% of value-added in Hawaii is attributable to the public sector, so you would imagine that public employment is more common there. The Hawaii state government maintains that 20.6% of the local working population consists of public employees:

    http://files.hawaii.gov/dbedt/economic/reports/SelectedRacesCharacteristics_HawaiiReport.pdf

    About 1/4 of the population of Hawaii claims some Polynesian ancestry. The bean counters for the state of Hawaii don't in the foregoing report indicate where mixed race persons are working, but they do indicate the share of workers from various ethnic groups employed in the public sector. As you can see, it varies between 3.4% and 30% depending on the group. Of the major Polynesian groups - Hawaiian and Samoan - just north of 21% of those working are public employees.

    Were the number of uniformed military deployed to Hawaii about average given the state's population, you'd expect to find north of 6,000 men in uniform. There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii, and that largely accounts for the excess number of public employees in the state. I don't think Polynesians are exceptionally common in the Armed Services.

    There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii

    As usual, this is subject to a certain multiplier for dependent family members and also civilians attached to the military. Both groups, it could be presumed, fit the IQ profiles of the ‘military men’ (i.e., few low-IQers sub-90 or so, and zero below the the IQ83 cutoff).

    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    Hawaii is at a stable 1.4 million population in the 2010s. If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military.

    • Replies: @Hail

    If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military
     
    Which, in turn, would mean that "current US military 'stock' (incl. spouses and dependents)" almost certainly exceeds "Polynesian stock" in Polynesian Hawaii, if the average person with any Polynesian ancestry is mixed. (Like Tulsi Gabbard, who is up to 30% Polynesian/Samoan; a low level of other, extraneous exotica; and <69% European [comment-160].)

    About 1/4 of the population of Hawaii claims some Polynesian ancestry
     
    , @Art Deco
    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    No. Again, the value-added attributable to the public sector is 18% of the whole. There's a lot of dispute about the size of multipliers among macroeconomists and estimates are all over the map. They tend to land either side of 1.6x.

  165. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?
     
    One problem is that it’s so unique compared to the rest of the country that many high achieving Hawaiians don’t adjust well to mainland life and eventually go back home. For example, doctors who are from there are notoriously difficult to retain at mainland hospitals.

    Remember that genes/race aren’t everything. Environment does matter (e.g. North vs. South Korea).

    Yes.

    Just as the left wing fails to take into account genetics, the right wing utterly fails to account for, or even acknowledge the role of environment.

    If you take a British newborn baby and let a black Bantu couple in Africa adopt it, that baby will grow up to speak a Bantu language as his first. If he learns English in adulthood, he will always speak with a Bantu accent, despite being 100% genetically British.

    Hawaii is a unique location with an idiosyncratic culture. Even high IQ and conscientious people become relaxed and unambitious in Hawaii. Just because Hawaiians tend to achieve below what their genetics would predict, doesn’t mean they have bad genetics.

  166. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail

    There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii
     
    As usual, this is subject to a certain multiplier for dependent family members and also civilians attached to the military. Both groups, it could be presumed, fit the IQ profiles of the 'military men' (i.e., few low-IQers sub-90 or so, and zero below the the IQ83 cutoff).

    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    Hawaii is at a stable 1.4 million population in the 2010s. If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military.

    If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military

    Which, in turn, would mean that “current US military ‘stock’ (incl. spouses and dependents)” almost certainly exceeds “Polynesian stock” in Polynesian Hawaii, if the average person with any Polynesian ancestry is mixed. (Like Tulsi Gabbard, who is up to 30% Polynesian/Samoan; a low level of other, extraneous exotica; and <69% European [comment-160].)

    About 1/4 of the population of Hawaii claims some Polynesian ancestry

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I'm not sure what you're trying to argue yourself into. Again, just over 20% of the self-identified Hawaiians and Samoans are public employees, which is about average for Hawaii. His thesis is that the purpose of public employment in Hawaii is to provide sinecures for Polynesian dolts. If Polynesians are no more likely to be employed in the public sector than anyone else and 80% of them are employed in private-sector jobs, it's difficult to see how his thesis could be true.
  167. @Hail

    There are supposedly 50,000 military men stationed in Hawaii
     
    As usual, this is subject to a certain multiplier for dependent family members and also civilians attached to the military. Both groups, it could be presumed, fit the IQ profiles of the 'military men' (i.e., few low-IQers sub-90 or so, and zero below the the IQ83 cutoff).

    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    Hawaii is at a stable 1.4 million population in the 2010s. If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military.

    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    No. Again, the value-added attributable to the public sector is 18% of the whole. There’s a lot of dispute about the size of multipliers among macroeconomists and estimates are all over the map. They tend to land either side of 1.6x.

    • Replies: @Hail
    Hawaii Public Schools claim:

    Hawaii is the temporary or long-term home for 300,000-plus military personnel and their families
     
    Not clear what they mean with this number (incl. retired?) or whence they derive it.

    ____________

    Some article from 2000 (author name: Kajihiro)


    In 1998, the military had 47,064 active duty personnel and 85,350 dependents stationed in Hawai'i
     
    Implying a multiplier of 3x, just for active-duty military and dependents.

    If you have better data, it would be more helpful to share it.


    (comment disappeared, I think due to links; posting again without links as a test)

    , @Reg Cæsar

    They tend to land either side of 1.6x.
     
    The Golden Ratio!


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
  168. @Hail

    If the multiplier is 4x-5x, it would mean 14-18% of the island is in, or attached to, the US military
     
    Which, in turn, would mean that "current US military 'stock' (incl. spouses and dependents)" almost certainly exceeds "Polynesian stock" in Polynesian Hawaii, if the average person with any Polynesian ancestry is mixed. (Like Tulsi Gabbard, who is up to 30% Polynesian/Samoan; a low level of other, extraneous exotica; and <69% European [comment-160].)

    About 1/4 of the population of Hawaii claims some Polynesian ancestry
     

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue yourself into. Again, just over 20% of the self-identified Hawaiians and Samoans are public employees, which is about average for Hawaii. His thesis is that the purpose of public employment in Hawaii is to provide sinecures for Polynesian dolts. If Polynesians are no more likely to be employed in the public sector than anyone else and 80% of them are employed in private-sector jobs, it’s difficult to see how his thesis could be true.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  169. Hail says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    No. Again, the value-added attributable to the public sector is 18% of the whole. There's a lot of dispute about the size of multipliers among macroeconomists and estimates are all over the map. They tend to land either side of 1.6x.

    Hawaii Public Schools claim:

    Hawaii is the temporary or long-term home for 300,000-plus military personnel and their families

    Not clear what they mean with this number (incl. retired?) or whence they derive it.

    ____________

    Some article from 2000 (author name: Kajihiro)

    In 1998, the military had 47,064 active duty personnel and 85,350 dependents stationed in Hawai’i

    Implying a multiplier of 3x, just for active-duty military and dependents.

    If you have better data, it would be more helpful to share it.

    (comment disappeared, I think due to links; posting again without links as a test)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    'Multiplier' is a term of art in macroeconomics for the effect of public expenditure on output within the business cycle. You're not in this comment using it in that sense.
  170. @syonredux

    maybe it’s because mixed-race people literally blur actual biological boundaries…..

    So genius, what “biological race” do mixed race people belong to?
     
    What species do wolf-dog hybrids belong to?

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?
     
    And I'll throw back my question: What species is a wolf-dog hybrid?
    , @prosa123
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    I'll give it a try.

    White + black: always black, even if the white percentage is by far the higher and the person looks entirely white. The One Drop Rule is alive and well. There are no signs whatsoever that things are changing. I know the Creoles of New Orleans were a special case, but that was long ago.

    White + other nonwhite (Asian, Hispanic, Native American): no clear answer, depends on relative percentages and physical appearance. It is my impression that if the nonwhite ancestry is one-quarter or less the individual is more likely to identify as multiracial rather than simply minority. Questions of affirmative action eligibility or (WRT Native American) tribal membership can be complicating factors. Even surnames can be relevant.

    Black + other nonwhite: I would have thought these would be prime candidates for multiracial status, but consider that Kamala Harris and Tiger Woods identify solely as black.

    Two nonblack, nonwhite ancestries, for example Asian + Hispanic: the most likely of all to identify as multiracial, though I doubt there are many such people.

    To summarize, the two groups likely to identify as multiracial are those who are white + nonblack minority IF the nonwhite component is low, and those who are a mixture of two nonwhite, nonblack groups.

    , @Hypnotoad666

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?
     
    You answer your own question - they don't belong biologically to just one race but are a mixture of two (or more) races. Not sure why that's a difficult concept.

    Of course, people can apply whatever "social construct" or label they want to this mixed biological reality.

    For example, Kamala Harris is about 25% African but is labeled as "Black." Most African-Americans are about 25% European but nobody labels them as "white."

    If "mixed race" people interbreed long enough they can create a new "race" that generally "breeds true" like Mestizos. This is like creating a new standard breed of "Labradoodle" from mixing Labradors and Poodles for a few generations.
  171. @Achmed E. Newman

    But a new county was erected in Fr Damien’s leper colony. It surpassed– or undercut– Loving County, Texas, as the least populated in the US.
     
    Any idea what happened over there, Reg? Epidermite Flight?

    Any idea what happened over there, Reg? Epidermite Flight?

    I’d say go ask them. But you’d need a permit first:

    Did you know that Thalidomide is still approved for use with Hansen’s disease, aka leprosy? I’ve read that younger women have to show the use of two forms of birth control to get a prescription.

    https://www.who.int/lep/research/thalidomide/en/

  172. @Art Deco
    Could the multiplier be 4x to 5x, =200,000 to 250,000?

    No. Again, the value-added attributable to the public sector is 18% of the whole. There's a lot of dispute about the size of multipliers among macroeconomists and estimates are all over the map. They tend to land either side of 1.6x.

    They tend to land either side of 1.6x.

    The Golden Ratio!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

  173. @Bliss
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    And I’ll throw back my question: What species is a wolf-dog hybrid?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Children, please!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA5UqUyFmT0
  174. @Tired of Not Winning
    Most Chinese who are rich enough to emigrate, especially to to the US, are corrupt government officials/businessmen and/or their average IQ and lazy offspring. Corrupt people who are smart enough to swindle a lot of money may be a little smarter than average, but they tend not to be of high IQ, probably around 105-125. Truly high IQ people(>145) tend to be morally upright, as they tend to be highly educated in the STEM field. That's my theory and observation anyway.

  175. @Tim
    "Native Hawaiians are the most openly racist people I have ever encountered in the U.S."


    I remember when I was in elementary school, we got a new kid from Hawaii, and we thought that was fascinating--she lived in paradise. She was white and her Dad was enlisted in the Navy. I asked her what it was like--all I knew about Hawaii was that Greg Brady got lost for a week in the surf, and Bobby and Cindy Brady thought it might be because they had disrespected a Hawaiian totem.

    She said it was awful. The people all hated whites and called them 'Haoles'. She said they were horrible to whites and she was so glad to be gone from that 'paradise.'

    Years later--now, actually--I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands. I'm a JAG officer in the National Guard and there are always posts for what sound like really great jobs in the VI. I asked somebody from there why there are always openings for really great jobs in the VI National Guard, and she said, it's horrible. It's all inbred, they all hate each other, and if you go in there and take one of their really great jobs they are going to hate you even more. She said it's completely crazy how openly hostile they are to whites. None of them are qualified for the position you have, but they aren't gonna take orders from you. It's utter dysfunction--all the way to the bottom.

    Years later–now, actually–I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

    I went to the USVI with some of rich liberal friends three years ago. The resort was incredibly beautiful and everything was impeccable, but because I have a screw loose I wanted to see the “real” US Virgin Islands and spent an afternoon visiting some villages as my cab driver took a liking to me. Brutal, rage inducing poverty and a constant looming threat of violence. The place is borderline crazy if you get off the tourist path. It’s basically Baltimore with palm trees.

    End result, I left hating the place and decrying the inequality and extreme violence, while my wealthy liberal friends have no idea why I have such a negative perception of the place. I was completely disgusted by the living conditions. My cabbie was a great, good natured guy who was happy to show me the real USVI while keeping me safe.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Real income levels are not that depressed. The dimensions of the working population are depressed, but not as severely as those in Puerto Rico. Homicide rates are off the charts, right now as bad as Baltimore or Detroit. What's curious is that the British Virgin Islands are more affluent (income levels > 20% higher) and a great deal quieter (homicide rates 1/5 th of those on St. Thomas and St. Croix).
  176. @syonredux

    On average, on a one to ten scale, Hawaii scores maybe two points higher than the rest of the world.
     
    Where women are concerned, I give top marks to Northern Italy.

    Do keep in mind that HI has a wide variety of women (e.g. Europeans, Asians, etc) and that Northern Italy for the most part, tends to be somewhat uniform (less diverse), leaning more toward a Northern European hue (which is not a bad thing). And of course, HI is tropical, unlike Northern Italy, and so there is that factor that goes into hot looking women.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    And of course, HI is tropical, unlike Northern Italy, and so there is that factor that goes into hot looking women.
     
    Women who are native to the tropics (Amerinds, Blacks, etc) are not especially attractive.
  177. @Anon000
    Half-Samoans are fully hot!

    https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7232/7263925032_e20f34656e_z.jpg

    (note: Tulsi is 5’8”).

    A Samoan woman who isn’t grossly overweight. That is a rarity.

  178. @Steve Sailer
    I think Hawaii is a pretty interesting environment, but nobody much pays attention to it, as we saw with the rise of Obama.

    There must be a reason why Marc Zuckerberg purchased half a million acres there, wouldn’t you say? I mean, if its due to his wife’s Chinese ancestry, he could’ve just purchased more land in Northern CA (where Asians are pretty well represented).

  179. @BB753
    The mean IQ in Hawaii is probably not very high, due to the Hawaiian natives and Philipinos in the mix. If Hawaii was 80% Chinese/Japanese and 20% White, it would be more like Taiwan and less like Puerto Rico, if you get my drift.

    I was talking to a friend of mine. He is a successful dentist and his kids go to a private high school. He told me almost all of the kids at these schools go to the mainland for college and careers.

    As well they should. Hawaiian economy is based on tourism and the military. Plenty of jobs but most don’t pay very much.

    So we do have some smarties, but they leave.

  180. @Daniel H
    I dunno. How many high achieving northeast Asians have come out of Hawaii?

    But we are talking about a mean. The Asian population of Hawaii is large enough to be representative. Maybe the place is just too laid back. Maybe the fact that a larger proportion of the Asian population of Hawaii is Japanese. Japanese Americans must be the mellowest, most laid back ethnic group in this country. Maybe they have smarts but little initiative or are low T.

    Are Japanese Americans exceptionally successful? I don't get the impression that they are. There are enough Japanese Americans that we should have seen a smaller scale storming of the Ivy gates by Japanese decades ago. Where was it?

    What would high IQ Japanese do here? There isn’t much in the way of research here. A handful of colleges. Biggest business is tourism. No big financial firms headquartered here, though those do have representation.

    I do see a fair amount of Japanese in professional positions. Doctors, dentists, lawyers. So maybe that’s the answer.

  181. @syonredux

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?
     
    And I'll throw back my question: What species is a wolf-dog hybrid?

    Children, please!

    • Replies: @syonredux
    I suppose that I could dumb-down my responses....
  182. @Dennis Dale
    I remember asking that as he was ascending, shouldn't he be telling us "hey, I'm a mixed race kid from Hawaii and I'm here to tell you how diversity can work well"?

    But no, what we got was his faking the urban background he brought home like an anthropologist from a few visits to a black barber shop, and all the same assumptions.

    One reason is demagogy pays in racial politics--nobody wanted to hear the good news. I suspect it also had a lot to do with that dearth of blacks in Hawaii. Diversity without blacks is not diversity. Tragically, it might be the most viable sort.

    Barack is in every way a refutation of woke anti-racism. He can't forgive us for that. He wanted to be heroic. Blending in in Hawaii galled his narcissistic ass.

    We don’t have a lot of the particularly violent groups. Hardly any blacks or Hispanics.

    There are some parts of Hawaii that are more dangerous than others. Waianae on Oahu comes to mind. More Hawaiians (almost always mixed with something else) and Pacific Islanders there, but they aren’t nearly as murderous as blacks are. Someone might break into your car, but Hawaii has a pretty low murder rate.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Have to say, Ka'anapali in Western Maui always felt safe, though. Beautiful beach, wonderful resorts. Just saying. Driving around Western Maui seemed safe enough as well. There must be a reason why HI remains a fairly popular honeymoon destination for couples, and younger more active couples tend to do outdoorsy things, so HI fits the bill quite nicely.
  183. @JimB

    The “aloha spirit” may hold a deep lesson for all of us.
     
    I suspect the “aloha spirit” at the Punahou School, where the elite could coddle their multiracial offspring, differed from the “aloha spirit” in the Hawaiian public schools where the less fortunate Japanese and white population had to deal with the lumpen Polynesian underclass. White students got the “aloha spirit” good and hard on “Beat Haole Day,” when Polynesians would run riot through the schools knocking over desks and beating the shit out of any Haole with the temerity to show up for classes.

    My kids, half white and half Asian, go to a public school. Private schools are beyond my income level. I asked about Beat Haole Day and they said it wasn’t a thing. Might not be the case in all schools though.

  184. @Bliss
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    I’ll give it a try.

    White + black: always black, even if the white percentage is by far the higher and the person looks entirely white. The One Drop Rule is alive and well. There are no signs whatsoever that things are changing. I know the Creoles of New Orleans were a special case, but that was long ago.

    White + other nonwhite (Asian, Hispanic, Native American): no clear answer, depends on relative percentages and physical appearance. It is my impression that if the nonwhite ancestry is one-quarter or less the individual is more likely to identify as multiracial rather than simply minority. Questions of affirmative action eligibility or (WRT Native American) tribal membership can be complicating factors. Even surnames can be relevant.

    Black + other nonwhite: I would have thought these would be prime candidates for multiracial status, but consider that Kamala Harris and Tiger Woods identify solely as black.

    Two nonblack, nonwhite ancestries, for example Asian + Hispanic: the most likely of all to identify as multiracial, though I doubt there are many such people.

    To summarize, the two groups likely to identify as multiracial are those who are white + nonblack minority IF the nonwhite component is low, and those who are a mixture of two nonwhite, nonblack groups.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Perhaps I was being too generous to Bliss, seeing as how I thought that he wanted an answer based in science, not identity politics....
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "...Tiger Woods identify solely as black."

    No, he does not. His famous quote "I'm Cablanasian" meaning, he's a mix of all races. Actually, the closest he's ever come to publicly identifying as anything would tend to be Asian, after his Thai mother.

    Why do you think most blacks aren't down with Eldrick? Cause he's never publicly identified as being mainly black. He doesn't emphasize his blackness enough (meaning hardly at all).

    But FINALLY someone answered the question with a direct answer. Many thanks. That's the only way one can corner Katherine, by answering the question in a direct manner.

  185. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Do keep in mind that HI has a wide variety of women (e.g. Europeans, Asians, etc) and that Northern Italy for the most part, tends to be somewhat uniform (less diverse), leaning more toward a Northern European hue (which is not a bad thing). And of course, HI is tropical, unlike Northern Italy, and so there is that factor that goes into hot looking women.

    And of course, HI is tropical, unlike Northern Italy, and so there is that factor that goes into hot looking women.

    Women who are native to the tropics (Amerinds, Blacks, etc) are not especially attractive.

  186. @prosa123
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    I'll give it a try.

    White + black: always black, even if the white percentage is by far the higher and the person looks entirely white. The One Drop Rule is alive and well. There are no signs whatsoever that things are changing. I know the Creoles of New Orleans were a special case, but that was long ago.

    White + other nonwhite (Asian, Hispanic, Native American): no clear answer, depends on relative percentages and physical appearance. It is my impression that if the nonwhite ancestry is one-quarter or less the individual is more likely to identify as multiracial rather than simply minority. Questions of affirmative action eligibility or (WRT Native American) tribal membership can be complicating factors. Even surnames can be relevant.

    Black + other nonwhite: I would have thought these would be prime candidates for multiracial status, but consider that Kamala Harris and Tiger Woods identify solely as black.

    Two nonblack, nonwhite ancestries, for example Asian + Hispanic: the most likely of all to identify as multiracial, though I doubt there are many such people.

    To summarize, the two groups likely to identify as multiracial are those who are white + nonblack minority IF the nonwhite component is low, and those who are a mixture of two nonwhite, nonblack groups.

    Perhaps I was being too generous to Bliss, seeing as how I thought that he wanted an answer based in science, not identity politics….

    • Replies: @Bliss
    Who are you kidding? You don’t have an answer.

    Since you think race is “biological” that means the answer to my simple question would obviously have to be based on biological science. Right?

    So why are you avoiding the very relevant and very simple question that even a child would ask: what race are mixed race people?
  187. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Children, please!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA5UqUyFmT0

    I suppose that I could dumb-down my responses….

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And why not? It hasn't ever stopped you before...

    You know, with all this talk about Hawaii, scrumptious women, etc etc. now would be a good time to post some smutty pictures of native island beauties.

  188. @syonredux
    Perhaps I was being too generous to Bliss, seeing as how I thought that he wanted an answer based in science, not identity politics....

    Who are you kidding? You don’t have an answer.

    Since you think race is “biological” that means the answer to my simple question would obviously have to be based on biological science. Right?

    So why are you avoiding the very relevant and very simple question that even a child would ask: what race are mixed race people?

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Who are you kidding? You don’t have an answer.

    Since you think race is “biological” that means the answer to my simple question would obviously have to be based on biological science. Right?

    So why are you avoiding the very relevant and very simple question that even a child would ask: what race are mixed race people?
     
    Dear fellow, I am answering your question. I fear, though, that you lack the wit to understand.....

    Still, hope springs eternal. And, in that spirit, let me try again. If you breed a dog with a wolf, what species is the offspring?

    If you cannot answer, please say so.
  189. @Blinky Bill
    Paging Spike Gomes.

    You rang?

    Lots to unpack here, so as the resident (part)-Hawaiian of isteve, I’m going to give it my best shot to answer some of the repeated themes here.

    First off, yes, there is a “Kill Haole” day, but it’s nowhere near the peak of the phenomenon, which was the late 60s-early 80s, as the early 1990s coincided with a state crackdown on fighting and other forms of extreme physical bullying. Nowdays, “Kill Haole Day” is confined to rougher schools like Farrington and Campbell, with other schools having “no-go” bathrooms and hang-out spots for whites on that day (usually in April). It’s non-existent in private schools, public schools in good neighborhoods, and places where the whites fight back collectively and hard (schools with large amounts of military brats).

    It’s unpleasant, but this sort of behavior is rarely “for blood”, despite the gruesomeness of the name. The primary goal is humiliation. Hence, one is more likely to get dragged into a bathroom and have their head dunked in an unflushed toilet than to have the stuffing beat out of them. You will get a minor beating if you fight back hard, and you will lose since it’ll be ten to one, but at the same time you’ll gain a measure of respect, and locals will give you less sh*t in the future.

    Yeah, in general there is a lot of hostility to outsiders here, whether they’re white, black or what have you. The best way to deal with it is thus: If it’s passive-aggressive joking and comments, just smile and play along with it, be the butt of the joke. Mind you, observations on ethnic origin, religion and stereotypes is very common and accepted by locals, and it might not even be hostile at all. Locals often will comment on even negative ethnic stereotypes without it really being targeted at an individual. If the verbal stuff starts getting overt and targeted, just be silent and stoic, and if it’s physical, give back as good as you get… unless you’re in a bar or around drunk people. Sh*t get’s stupid then, but even then situational awareness of the kind of place the drunk people are will save your ass.

    Speaking of, yes there are ethnic niches here, including for white people. Some of them are remarkably specific. For example, nearly every stonemason here will be Tongan. The Japanese used to be power-brokers for the state here, but that’s changed with their demographic decline. They’re older, fewer, and the smartest and most talented of their youngest generally leave for greener and more affordable pastures on the mainland. There’s still some places like Hilo where they control everything, but now they’re forced to share power. Back in the day, from the 1960s-1980s was their peak, though they were most a political and administrative class (including Unions, which are almost a branch of the government here). Economic power was held by the Big Five (Five sugar companies that became land companies, mostly owned collectively by old money Caucasians going back to the 1800s), the Bishop Estate (ostensibly a non-profit for the benefit of Hawaiian education, but mostly run by white and Asian mainline Protestants), and a Chinese mercantile class which ran most of the retail here. Hawaiians were often employed either as blue collar workers by the government, or as entertainers or “face” in the burgeoning tourist industry if they were lucky.

    That economic and political situation changed as more white mainlanders and more FOB Asians moved here in the 70s-80s. The money dumped in here by Japanese investors in the 1980s as well as the widescale opening to national chains and cable television also did a number. Now the political situation is thus: The Dems are completely dominant here, an utter supermajority, with a few Republicans hanging on for dear life in a handful of districts that either have a large retired military population, or a large Evangelical or Mormon Polynesian population. The Dems are divided between two teams, the one that is usually dominant is the old power bloc founded by the Japanese-Americans, which now shares power with most local Asians and Polynesians. It’s surprisingly socially conservative, but defers to the national party on plank issues, and it’s power and money is located in the Unions, both private and governmental, blue collar voters born here, and the rural districts of the neighboring islands and real estate companies. The Bloc that is not dominant *here* (though they tend to go to the Senate and House of Reps more often than not) is comprised of socially progressive SWPLs originally from the mainland, college educated locals who can’t speak pidgin convincingly but somehow never got around to leaving the state, and politically radical Hawaiians who would prefer a restoration of the Kingdom of Hawaii. These two blocs fight a bit over the levers, with the fault lines usually being environmental and cultural concerns (like the recent brouhaha over the new telescopes planned on Mauna Kea).

    The state has a major problem with brain-drain, it really has nothing to offer the talented born here, and even if you’re well connected, the price of living is high and home ownership is an impossibility. For those not well connected, and picked a stupid degree in religious studies at the local university, well, I’m a security guard with a Master’s Degree. I really should have stayed in STEM, but then, I don’t think a botany degree would have me doing much better here.

    That’s enough for now.

    Anyone got any questions?

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    ...places where the whites fight back collectively and hard
     
    Elementary. From cave times.

    (schools with large amounts of military brats).
     
    Makes sense.
    Why Whites in other schools don't get organized along the same lines?
    Numbers? Not quite sure.
    10 is good enough to start with. Not necessarily in school itself. I ember it from my youth. A guy gets beaten today. Tomorrow his "clan" waits outside and pounces......Hell, sometimes even around the other guys' homes.

    If widespread enough it would require state reaction which creates some possibilities.

    , @Art Deco
    The haole population is currently 26% of the total. It was 32% in 1960. About 60% of the population lives in owner-occupied housing; I think the national mean is around 65%.
    , @Romanian
    Thanks for the interesting info!

    Why didn't you move away, if there is such a mismatch between your job and your education level?
  190. @Bliss
    Who are you kidding? You don’t have an answer.

    Since you think race is “biological” that means the answer to my simple question would obviously have to be based on biological science. Right?

    So why are you avoiding the very relevant and very simple question that even a child would ask: what race are mixed race people?

    Who are you kidding? You don’t have an answer.

    Since you think race is “biological” that means the answer to my simple question would obviously have to be based on biological science. Right?

    So why are you avoiding the very relevant and very simple question that even a child would ask: what race are mixed race people?

    Dear fellow, I am answering your question. I fear, though, that you lack the wit to understand…..

    Still, hope springs eternal. And, in that spirit, let me try again. If you breed a dog with a wolf, what species is the offspring?

    If you cannot answer, please say so.

    • Replies: @Bliss
    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it. Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?
  191. @syonredux

    Who are you kidding? You don’t have an answer.

    Since you think race is “biological” that means the answer to my simple question would obviously have to be based on biological science. Right?

    So why are you avoiding the very relevant and very simple question that even a child would ask: what race are mixed race people?
     
    Dear fellow, I am answering your question. I fear, though, that you lack the wit to understand.....

    Still, hope springs eternal. And, in that spirit, let me try again. If you breed a dog with a wolf, what species is the offspring?

    If you cannot answer, please say so.

    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it. Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    That's Katherine, it's what he tends to do. That, and copious amounts of cut/pasting answers, usually from Wiki. He does tend to like his Wikis.
    , @syonredux

    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it.
     

    Now we are getting somewhere. Since your answer is Canis lupus, that means that you subscribe to the notion that dogs are a subspecies of wolf, making the dog Canis lupus familiaris.

    Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.
     
    Rome wasn't built in a day. But we are making progress.Some lessons take a while....

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?
     

    Excellent. You are approaching enlightenment. Wolf mates with dog. The offspring is (according to the theory that you follow), Canis lupus...but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?
  192. @Tired of Not Winning

    Hawaii is full of fat Polynesians. Surprisingly few hot girls, outside tourist destinations.

    TV lied to me.
     

    Having been to Maui recently, I would have to concur. All the locals, regardless of race, are trashy and/or fat.

    The “hot Hawaiian women” are mostly tourists.

    • Replies: @Don't Look at Me
    Native Hawaiian women are, in general, not particularly attractive. The pretty island girls on the post cards and travel brochures are almost always Filipino.
  193. @Forbes
    The Kool-Aid is potent here. The Narrative is working overtime.

    Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.
     
    Now define diversity. Is that race/ethnic diversity? Socio-economic diversity? Intellectual diversity? Cultural diversity? Language diversity? Country of birth diversity? What?

    "Fairer verdicts"? Really? Measured how?

    More profitable? Are racial/ethnic minority-controlled firms more profitable than Caucasian-controlled firms?

    Researchers argue...blah, blah, blah...

    Verdicts are fairer because they get the defendant off more often even if they are as guilty as OJ.

  194. @Hail
    Hawaii Public Schools claim:

    Hawaii is the temporary or long-term home for 300,000-plus military personnel and their families
     
    Not clear what they mean with this number (incl. retired?) or whence they derive it.

    ____________

    Some article from 2000 (author name: Kajihiro)


    In 1998, the military had 47,064 active duty personnel and 85,350 dependents stationed in Hawai'i
     
    Implying a multiplier of 3x, just for active-duty military and dependents.

    If you have better data, it would be more helpful to share it.


    (comment disappeared, I think due to links; posting again without links as a test)

    ‘Multiplier’ is a term of art in macroeconomics for the effect of public expenditure on output within the business cycle. You’re not in this comment using it in that sense.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    It's also a (not entirely regular to be sure) term of art in, you know, multiplying.
  195. @Clifford Brown

    Years later–now, actually–I have heard of the same thing in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
     
    I went to the USVI with some of rich liberal friends three years ago. The resort was incredibly beautiful and everything was impeccable, but because I have a screw loose I wanted to see the "real" US Virgin Islands and spent an afternoon visiting some villages as my cab driver took a liking to me. Brutal, rage inducing poverty and a constant looming threat of violence. The place is borderline crazy if you get off the tourist path. It's basically Baltimore with palm trees.

    End result, I left hating the place and decrying the inequality and extreme violence, while my wealthy liberal friends have no idea why I have such a negative perception of the place. I was completely disgusted by the living conditions. My cabbie was a great, good natured guy who was happy to show me the real USVI while keeping me safe.

    Real income levels are not that depressed. The dimensions of the working population are depressed, but not as severely as those in Puerto Rico. Homicide rates are off the charts, right now as bad as Baltimore or Detroit. What’s curious is that the British Virgin Islands are more affluent (income levels > 20% higher) and a great deal quieter (homicide rates 1/5 th of those on St. Thomas and St. Croix).

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    What’s curious is that the British Virgin Islands are more affluent (income levels > 20% higher) and a great deal quieter (homicide rates 1/5 th of those on St. Thomas and St. Croix).
     
    That is curious, given that the demographics probably aren't particularly different:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Virgin_Islands#Demographics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Croix#Demographics

    I blame Puerto Ricans.
  196. @Art Deco
    'Multiplier' is a term of art in macroeconomics for the effect of public expenditure on output within the business cycle. You're not in this comment using it in that sense.

    It’s also a (not entirely regular to be sure) term of art in, you know, multiplying.

  197. @Art Deco
    Grandpa Stanley Davis was on an FBI surveillance list during WW2 as a person ineligible for a security clearance in some defense plants because of his communist activism.

    Who is 'Stanley Davis', and from what corner of the Wacky World of Websites did you obtain this gem?


    Frank Marshall Davis traveled to Hawaii as an official of the West Coast longshoremen, work he'd abandoned by 1960. The Communist Party lost over 80% of its membership between 1947 and 1972. People quit banging their heads against the wall and do something else with their life.

    Stanley Dunham sold furniture and insurance for a living and his wife was in charge of escrow accounts at the Bank of Hawaii. Two quite ordinary people in every respect but their habit (over a 20 year period) of pulling up stakes every few years. No clue how this pair of bourgeois got transmogrifed into 'communists' in your head.



    But his commie White wife was a Chicago heiress and completely supported the family and their communist activities.

    Frank Marshall Davis' mother-in-law was a farmer's daughter from western Michigan. It's conceivable she had money from her 2d husband, who appears to have had some sort of financial sector job. And, it's conceivable her 1st husband (who'd grown up the ward of a flush businessman) had come into money from his guardians at some point. (His own employments were quite unremarkable). Her 1st husband died in 1960 and she in 1970, so it's a reasonable inference Helen Davis wouldn't have had her hands any family money until she was 37 and her husband was 55 (and the Communist Party was a small sect of no consequence).

    from what corner of the Wacky World of Websites did you obtain this gem?

    That’s rich, coming from you with over half a million words’ worth of assertions on this site alone, buttressed by roughly zero citations.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    My assertions come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Census Bureau, the Bureau of Economic Analysis, World Development Indicators, the Federal Reserve, the Digest of Education Statistics, the Statistical Abstracts and miscellaneous places I cite specifically.
  198. @Colin Wright
    'Plenty of research indicates that diversity has many benefits. Diverse groups are better at problem-solving; in mock trials, diverse juries give fairer verdicts; diverse companies are more profitable; researchers argue that diverse countries have stronger economies.

    I am sure that these are some real gold-standard studies (if they really exist). I’d especially like to see how they cooked-up the study that says “diverse companies are more profitable.”'

    Some positive results might also be a consequence of the lack of trust 'diversity' brings in its train.

    If the a worksite is multi-cultural, nobody's going to be really sure what they can and can't get away with -- so they'll try to at least look busy. That might be good, in a way, but perhaps for the wrong reasons.

    I'm reminded of when I taught high school in a neighborhood that was about 70% Hispanic and 30% Asian. One of the simplest devices in my tool kit to stop Hispanic girls from talking in class was to seat an Asian boy in their midst.

    Diversity! And it worked. Whether I was actually introducing a new and happier world is another matter.

    Actually, your comment reminded me that the only rigorous study of diversity — by Robert Putnam — showed that it pretty much sucks. A “diverse” community is actually an alienated and distrustful community. https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/robert-putnam-diversity-research-distorted-putnam/

    Of course Putnam’s study is memory holed and will never be mentioned by the NYT when discussing why “diversity is our strength” is supposedly science-y.

  199. @prosa123
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    I'll give it a try.

    White + black: always black, even if the white percentage is by far the higher and the person looks entirely white. The One Drop Rule is alive and well. There are no signs whatsoever that things are changing. I know the Creoles of New Orleans were a special case, but that was long ago.

    White + other nonwhite (Asian, Hispanic, Native American): no clear answer, depends on relative percentages and physical appearance. It is my impression that if the nonwhite ancestry is one-quarter or less the individual is more likely to identify as multiracial rather than simply minority. Questions of affirmative action eligibility or (WRT Native American) tribal membership can be complicating factors. Even surnames can be relevant.

    Black + other nonwhite: I would have thought these would be prime candidates for multiracial status, but consider that Kamala Harris and Tiger Woods identify solely as black.

    Two nonblack, nonwhite ancestries, for example Asian + Hispanic: the most likely of all to identify as multiracial, though I doubt there are many such people.

    To summarize, the two groups likely to identify as multiracial are those who are white + nonblack minority IF the nonwhite component is low, and those who are a mixture of two nonwhite, nonblack groups.

    “…Tiger Woods identify solely as black.”

    No, he does not. His famous quote “I’m Cablanasian” meaning, he’s a mix of all races. Actually, the closest he’s ever come to publicly identifying as anything would tend to be Asian, after his Thai mother.

    Why do you think most blacks aren’t down with Eldrick? Cause he’s never publicly identified as being mainly black. He doesn’t emphasize his blackness enough (meaning hardly at all).

    But FINALLY someone answered the question with a direct answer. Many thanks. That’s the only way one can corner Katherine, by answering the question in a direct manner.

  200. @Don't Look at Me
    We don't have a lot of the particularly violent groups. Hardly any blacks or Hispanics.

    There are some parts of Hawaii that are more dangerous than others. Waianae on Oahu comes to mind. More Hawaiians (almost always mixed with something else) and Pacific Islanders there, but they aren't nearly as murderous as blacks are. Someone might break into your car, but Hawaii has a pretty low murder rate.

    Have to say, Ka’anapali in Western Maui always felt safe, though. Beautiful beach, wonderful resorts. Just saying. Driving around Western Maui seemed safe enough as well. There must be a reason why HI remains a fairly popular honeymoon destination for couples, and younger more active couples tend to do outdoorsy things, so HI fits the bill quite nicely.

  201. @Bliss
    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?

    You answer your own question – they don’t belong biologically to just one race but are a mixture of two (or more) races. Not sure why that’s a difficult concept.

    Of course, people can apply whatever “social construct” or label they want to this mixed biological reality.

    For example, Kamala Harris is about 25% African but is labeled as “Black.” Most African-Americans are about 25% European but nobody labels them as “white.”

    If “mixed race” people interbreed long enough they can create a new “race” that generally “breeds true” like Mestizos. This is like creating a new standard breed of “Labradoodle” from mixing Labradors and Poodles for a few generations.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Technically, the Poodle was part of the Retriever breed, so its not so much of a stretch, breeding wise. Go back far enough and Poodles and Labs are closer than one might think today. Poodle was technically a German dog, (the word comes from "to splash around in the water"). Now, a more off the wall type of breed would be to cross a Poodle with a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. That would be entirely different, to mix a hunting breed with a retriever.
  202. @Bliss
    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it. Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?

    That’s Katherine, it’s what he tends to do. That, and copious amounts of cut/pasting answers, usually from Wiki. He does tend to like his Wikis.

  203. @syonredux
    I suppose that I could dumb-down my responses....

    And why not? It hasn’t ever stopped you before…

    You know, with all this talk about Hawaii, scrumptious women, etc etc. now would be a good time to post some smutty pictures of native island beauties.

  204. @Hypnotoad666

    Answer the question: what race is a mixed-race person?
     
    You answer your own question - they don't belong biologically to just one race but are a mixture of two (or more) races. Not sure why that's a difficult concept.

    Of course, people can apply whatever "social construct" or label they want to this mixed biological reality.

    For example, Kamala Harris is about 25% African but is labeled as "Black." Most African-Americans are about 25% European but nobody labels them as "white."

    If "mixed race" people interbreed long enough they can create a new "race" that generally "breeds true" like Mestizos. This is like creating a new standard breed of "Labradoodle" from mixing Labradors and Poodles for a few generations.

    Technically, the Poodle was part of the Retriever breed, so its not so much of a stretch, breeding wise. Go back far enough and Poodles and Labs are closer than one might think today. Poodle was technically a German dog, (the word comes from “to splash around in the water”). Now, a more off the wall type of breed would be to cross a Poodle with a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. That would be entirely different, to mix a hunting breed with a retriever.

  205. @Spike Gomes
    You rang?

    Lots to unpack here, so as the resident (part)-Hawaiian of isteve, I'm going to give it my best shot to answer some of the repeated themes here.

    First off, yes, there is a "Kill Haole" day, but it's nowhere near the peak of the phenomenon, which was the late 60s-early 80s, as the early 1990s coincided with a state crackdown on fighting and other forms of extreme physical bullying. Nowdays, "Kill Haole Day" is confined to rougher schools like Farrington and Campbell, with other schools having "no-go" bathrooms and hang-out spots for whites on that day (usually in April). It's non-existent in private schools, public schools in good neighborhoods, and places where the whites fight back collectively and hard (schools with large amounts of military brats).

    It's unpleasant, but this sort of behavior is rarely "for blood", despite the gruesomeness of the name. The primary goal is humiliation. Hence, one is more likely to get dragged into a bathroom and have their head dunked in an unflushed toilet than to have the stuffing beat out of them. You will get a minor beating if you fight back hard, and you will lose since it'll be ten to one, but at the same time you'll gain a measure of respect, and locals will give you less sh*t in the future.

    Yeah, in general there is a lot of hostility to outsiders here, whether they're white, black or what have you. The best way to deal with it is thus: If it's passive-aggressive joking and comments, just smile and play along with it, be the butt of the joke. Mind you, observations on ethnic origin, religion and stereotypes is very common and accepted by locals, and it might not even be hostile at all. Locals often will comment on even negative ethnic stereotypes without it really being targeted at an individual. If the verbal stuff starts getting overt and targeted, just be silent and stoic, and if it's physical, give back as good as you get... unless you're in a bar or around drunk people. Sh*t get's stupid then, but even then situational awareness of the kind of place the drunk people are will save your ass.

    Speaking of, yes there are ethnic niches here, including for white people. Some of them are remarkably specific. For example, nearly every stonemason here will be Tongan. The Japanese used to be power-brokers for the state here, but that's changed with their demographic decline. They're older, fewer, and the smartest and most talented of their youngest generally leave for greener and more affordable pastures on the mainland. There's still some places like Hilo where they control everything, but now they're forced to share power. Back in the day, from the 1960s-1980s was their peak, though they were most a political and administrative class (including Unions, which are almost a branch of the government here). Economic power was held by the Big Five (Five sugar companies that became land companies, mostly owned collectively by old money Caucasians going back to the 1800s), the Bishop Estate (ostensibly a non-profit for the benefit of Hawaiian education, but mostly run by white and Asian mainline Protestants), and a Chinese mercantile class which ran most of the retail here. Hawaiians were often employed either as blue collar workers by the government, or as entertainers or "face" in the burgeoning tourist industry if they were lucky.

    That economic and political situation changed as more white mainlanders and more FOB Asians moved here in the 70s-80s. The money dumped in here by Japanese investors in the 1980s as well as the widescale opening to national chains and cable television also did a number. Now the political situation is thus: The Dems are completely dominant here, an utter supermajority, with a few Republicans hanging on for dear life in a handful of districts that either have a large retired military population, or a large Evangelical or Mormon Polynesian population. The Dems are divided between two teams, the one that is usually dominant is the old power bloc founded by the Japanese-Americans, which now shares power with most local Asians and Polynesians. It's surprisingly socially conservative, but defers to the national party on plank issues, and it's power and money is located in the Unions, both private and governmental, blue collar voters born here, and the rural districts of the neighboring islands and real estate companies. The Bloc that is not dominant *here* (though they tend to go to the Senate and House of Reps more often than not) is comprised of socially progressive SWPLs originally from the mainland, college educated locals who can't speak pidgin convincingly but somehow never got around to leaving the state, and politically radical Hawaiians who would prefer a restoration of the Kingdom of Hawaii. These two blocs fight a bit over the levers, with the fault lines usually being environmental and cultural concerns (like the recent brouhaha over the new telescopes planned on Mauna Kea).

    The state has a major problem with brain-drain, it really has nothing to offer the talented born here, and even if you're well connected, the price of living is high and home ownership is an impossibility. For those not well connected, and picked a stupid degree in religious studies at the local university, well, I'm a security guard with a Master's Degree. I really should have stayed in STEM, but then, I don't think a botany degree would have me doing much better here.

    That's enough for now.

    Anyone got any questions?

    …places where the whites fight back collectively and hard

    Elementary. From cave times.

    (schools with large amounts of military brats).

    Makes sense.
    Why Whites in other schools don’t get organized along the same lines?
    Numbers? Not quite sure.
    10 is good enough to start with. Not necessarily in school itself. I ember it from my youth. A guy gets beaten today. Tomorrow his “clan” waits outside and pounces……Hell, sometimes even around the other guys’ homes.

    If widespread enough it would require state reaction which creates some possibilities.

    • Replies: @Spike Gomes
    Why don't they fight back?

    Two reasons. One, the military brats who do fight back are usually the children of what Hackett called "the Borderlanders". Fighting is in their blood going back generations, and they understand what this is about. It's about turf and respect. They carve out their own little fiefdom of the campus (usually the JROTC program) with it's allied cliques, and they stop getting hassled and have a place at the table.

    The other reason is that lots of whites in Hawaii are of the middle class stock who think life should be fair and violence isn't the answer. Folks really need to get over that. I mean, it's just turfing out and finding the borders, not a war of extermination against whites, and let's be frank you're kind of stuck with it now and who do you got to blame other than yourselves?

    I would have rather stayed an independent Kingdom, you know, but other smarter ethnic groups had better plans, I suppose.
  206. @Art Deco
    Real income levels are not that depressed. The dimensions of the working population are depressed, but not as severely as those in Puerto Rico. Homicide rates are off the charts, right now as bad as Baltimore or Detroit. What's curious is that the British Virgin Islands are more affluent (income levels > 20% higher) and a great deal quieter (homicide rates 1/5 th of those on St. Thomas and St. Croix).

    What’s curious is that the British Virgin Islands are more affluent (income levels > 20% higher) and a great deal quieter (homicide rates 1/5 th of those on St. Thomas and St. Croix).

    That is curious, given that the demographics probably aren’t particularly different:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Virgin_Islands#Demographics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Croix#Demographics

    I blame Puerto Ricans.

  207. Well duh of course it’s still racial. Just because everyone’s mixed doesn’t make them magically aracial – they just cluster out on their own, basically a race for themselves

    Anyways, there is a way to make uppity minorities work for you – just put Arabs and rural Dinarids into mid-level managerial positions. Bam, economy skyrockets. You also get workplaces that make sweatshops look like paradise but it is what it is

  208. @Bliss
    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it. Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?

    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it.

    Now we are getting somewhere. Since your answer is Canis lupus, that means that you subscribe to the notion that dogs are a subspecies of wolf, making the dog Canis lupus familiaris.

    Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.

    Rome wasn’t built in a day. But we are making progress.Some lessons take a while….

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?

    Excellent. You are approaching enlightenment. Wolf mates with dog. The offspring is (according to the theory that you follow), Canis lupus…but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?

    • Replies: @Bliss

    but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?
     
    It’s a wolfdog. Dogs are a subspecies of wolves. Are you saying races are a subspecies of humans?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)#Subspecies

    While in practice subspecies are often defined by easily observable physical appearance, there is not necessarily any evolutionary significance to these observed differences, so this form of classification has become less acceptable to evolutionary biologists.[72] Likewise this typological approach to race is generally regarded as discredited by biologists and anthropologists.
     
  209. @syonredux

    If you have the answer just give it. What’s with the silly BS?

    The answer to your question is C lupus. I had to google for it.
     

    Now we are getting somewhere. Since your answer is Canis lupus, that means that you subscribe to the notion that dogs are a subspecies of wolf, making the dog Canis lupus familiaris.

    Now explain to us how that answers my question. You are a teacher right? So teach.
     
    Rome wasn't built in a day. But we are making progress.Some lessons take a while....

    Here is the question again: if a caucasoid mates with an australoid what race is their child?

    They are both the same species and so will be their child. But what race will the child belong to?
     

    Excellent. You are approaching enlightenment. Wolf mates with dog. The offspring is (according to the theory that you follow), Canis lupus...but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?

    but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?

    It’s a wolfdog. Dogs are a subspecies of wolves. Are you saying races are a subspecies of humans?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)#Subspecies

    While in practice subspecies are often defined by easily observable physical appearance, there is not necessarily any evolutionary significance to these observed differences, so this form of classification has become less acceptable to evolutionary biologists.[72] Likewise this typological approach to race is generally regarded as discredited by biologists and anthropologists.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    You wouldn't listen, would you? If you keep goading Katherine, he will continually seek the upper hand via quick wit, banter, all the while sidestepping the issue/question unless he is certain he will gain the upper hand. He attempts to come across as a reincarnation of Noelle Coward, but its more attune with "I know you are, but what am I?" Race, human, wolf, dog, whatever. It's all the same with Katherine. Doesn't really matter unless he can gain the upper hand in a semi-witty, semi-queer style.

    But you'll learn.
    , @syonredux
    Sorry, dear boy. I completely forgot about our little conversation.....

    but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?

    It’s a wolfdog.
     
    There you go. A mixture of two things. The same holds true for an Australoid + Caucasoid combo.
  210. @Spike Gomes
    You rang?

    Lots to unpack here, so as the resident (part)-Hawaiian of isteve, I'm going to give it my best shot to answer some of the repeated themes here.

    First off, yes, there is a "Kill Haole" day, but it's nowhere near the peak of the phenomenon, which was the late 60s-early 80s, as the early 1990s coincided with a state crackdown on fighting and other forms of extreme physical bullying. Nowdays, "Kill Haole Day" is confined to rougher schools like Farrington and Campbell, with other schools having "no-go" bathrooms and hang-out spots for whites on that day (usually in April). It's non-existent in private schools, public schools in good neighborhoods, and places where the whites fight back collectively and hard (schools with large amounts of military brats).

    It's unpleasant, but this sort of behavior is rarely "for blood", despite the gruesomeness of the name. The primary goal is humiliation. Hence, one is more likely to get dragged into a bathroom and have their head dunked in an unflushed toilet than to have the stuffing beat out of them. You will get a minor beating if you fight back hard, and you will lose since it'll be ten to one, but at the same time you'll gain a measure of respect, and locals will give you less sh*t in the future.

    Yeah, in general there is a lot of hostility to outsiders here, whether they're white, black or what have you. The best way to deal with it is thus: If it's passive-aggressive joking and comments, just smile and play along with it, be the butt of the joke. Mind you, observations on ethnic origin, religion and stereotypes is very common and accepted by locals, and it might not even be hostile at all. Locals often will comment on even negative ethnic stereotypes without it really being targeted at an individual. If the verbal stuff starts getting overt and targeted, just be silent and stoic, and if it's physical, give back as good as you get... unless you're in a bar or around drunk people. Sh*t get's stupid then, but even then situational awareness of the kind of place the drunk people are will save your ass.

    Speaking of, yes there are ethnic niches here, including for white people. Some of them are remarkably specific. For example, nearly every stonemason here will be Tongan. The Japanese used to be power-brokers for the state here, but that's changed with their demographic decline. They're older, fewer, and the smartest and most talented of their youngest generally leave for greener and more affordable pastures on the mainland. There's still some places like Hilo where they control everything, but now they're forced to share power. Back in the day, from the 1960s-1980s was their peak, though they were most a political and administrative class (including Unions, which are almost a branch of the government here). Economic power was held by the Big Five (Five sugar companies that became land companies, mostly owned collectively by old money Caucasians going back to the 1800s), the Bishop Estate (ostensibly a non-profit for the benefit of Hawaiian education, but mostly run by white and Asian mainline Protestants), and a Chinese mercantile class which ran most of the retail here. Hawaiians were often employed either as blue collar workers by the government, or as entertainers or "face" in the burgeoning tourist industry if they were lucky.

    That economic and political situation changed as more white mainlanders and more FOB Asians moved here in the 70s-80s. The money dumped in here by Japanese investors in the 1980s as well as the widescale opening to national chains and cable television also did a number. Now the political situation is thus: The Dems are completely dominant here, an utter supermajority, with a few Republicans hanging on for dear life in a handful of districts that either have a large retired military population, or a large Evangelical or Mormon Polynesian population. The Dems are divided between two teams, the one that is usually dominant is the old power bloc founded by the Japanese-Americans, which now shares power with most local Asians and Polynesians. It's surprisingly socially conservative, but defers to the national party on plank issues, and it's power and money is located in the Unions, both private and governmental, blue collar voters born here, and the rural districts of the neighboring islands and real estate companies. The Bloc that is not dominant *here* (though they tend to go to the Senate and House of Reps more often than not) is comprised of socially progressive SWPLs originally from the mainland, college educated locals who can't speak pidgin convincingly but somehow never got around to leaving the state, and politically radical Hawaiians who would prefer a restoration of the Kingdom of Hawaii. These two blocs fight a bit over the levers, with the fault lines usually being environmental and cultural concerns (like the recent brouhaha over the new telescopes planned on Mauna Kea).

    The state has a major problem with brain-drain, it really has nothing to offer the talented born here, and even if you're well connected, the price of living is high and home ownership is an impossibility. For those not well connected, and picked a stupid degree in religious studies at the local university, well, I'm a security guard with a Master's Degree. I really should have stayed in STEM, but then, I don't think a botany degree would have me doing much better here.

    That's enough for now.

    Anyone got any questions?

    The haole population is currently 26% of the total. It was 32% in 1960. About 60% of the population lives in owner-occupied housing; I think the national mean is around 65%.

    • Replies: @Spike Gomes
    A large part of that "Caucasian" population was Portuguese, like my grandfather and his three sisters. They aren't considered "haole", though my Dad's generation was really the last one of pure Portuguese. They interbred themselves out of existence, leaving only last names, tiny guitars, and the basic cadence of pidgen English as their heritage.

    For that you can mostly blame the Catholic Church. Ethnic parishes never really formed here, as the diocese was staffed mostly by priests and bishops from Europe who were very hostile to the descendants of the Protestant missionaries who ran the plantations. If a young Catholic couple of good standing wanted to get married and the parents disapproved, the couple would often go to their parish priest who would council the families to accept the union lest greater sins occur. Happened twice in my family back in the day.

    Portuguese generally filled out the skilled tradesmen positions in the territorial days. There's still examples of my great-grandfather's stonework standing around the island. As time got on, they were heavily represented in the Police and Fire Departments, but were never a dominating group there.

    Also, lost of people have been living in the same houses for generations here. Just look at the real estate prices. You think the average local is making enough bank to afford a down payment with the wages here?
  211. @peterAUS

    ...places where the whites fight back collectively and hard
     
    Elementary. From cave times.

    (schools with large amounts of military brats).
     
    Makes sense.
    Why Whites in other schools don't get organized along the same lines?
    Numbers? Not quite sure.
    10 is good enough to start with. Not necessarily in school itself. I ember it from my youth. A guy gets beaten today. Tomorrow his "clan" waits outside and pounces......Hell, sometimes even around the other guys' homes.

    If widespread enough it would require state reaction which creates some possibilities.

    Why don’t they fight back?

    Two reasons. One, the military brats who do fight back are usually the children of what Hackett called “the Borderlanders”. Fighting is in their blood going back generations, and they understand what this is about. It’s about turf and respect. They carve out their own little fiefdom of the campus (usually the JROTC program) with it’s allied cliques, and they stop getting hassled and have a place at the table.

    The other reason is that lots of whites in Hawaii are of the middle class stock who think life should be fair and violence isn’t the answer. Folks really need to get over that. I mean, it’s just turfing out and finding the borders, not a war of extermination against whites, and let’s be frank you’re kind of stuck with it now and who do you got to blame other than yourselves?

    I would have rather stayed an independent Kingdom, you know, but other smarter ethnic groups had better plans, I suppose.

    • Replies: @Don't Look at Me
    True dat. I gave my kids the fighting instruction and guidance I never received. I toughened up, lifted weights, and took martial arts while in the service.

    I told my boys to not pick on others, but if someone hit them they should hit them back as hard and as often as necessary. Told them they might get in trouble at school, but they wouldn't be in trouble at home. One day a six year old thought my six year old would be easy prey. He fought back and got sent to the principal. Next day the same thing happened, but it stopped after that.

    Your kid's school wants "peace." If one kid is dominating your kid and your kid doesn't fight back, the school calls that "peace" and is fine with it. You shouldn't be.
    , @peterAUS

    ....lots of whites in Hawaii are of the middle class stock who think life should be fair and violence isn’t the answer.
     
    Hehehe.....yep.
  212. @Art Deco
    The haole population is currently 26% of the total. It was 32% in 1960. About 60% of the population lives in owner-occupied housing; I think the national mean is around 65%.

    A large part of that “Caucasian” population was Portuguese, like my grandfather and his three sisters. They aren’t considered “haole”, though my Dad’s generation was really the last one of pure Portuguese. They interbred themselves out of existence, leaving only last names, tiny guitars, and the basic cadence of pidgen English as their heritage.

    For that you can mostly blame the Catholic Church. Ethnic parishes never really formed here, as the diocese was staffed mostly by priests and bishops from Europe who were very hostile to the descendants of the Protestant missionaries who ran the plantations. If a young Catholic couple of good standing wanted to get married and the parents disapproved, the couple would often go to their parish priest who would council the families to accept the union lest greater sins occur. Happened twice in my family back in the day.

    Portuguese generally filled out the skilled tradesmen positions in the territorial days. There’s still examples of my great-grandfather’s stonework standing around the island. As time got on, they were heavily represented in the Police and Fire Departments, but were never a dominating group there.

    Also, lost of people have been living in the same houses for generations here. Just look at the real estate prices. You think the average local is making enough bank to afford a down payment with the wages here?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Also, lost of people have been living in the same houses for generations here. Just look at the real estate prices. You think the average local is making enough bank to afford a down payment with the wages here?

    Zillow does list astonishing prices for quite banal-looking condos. The Census Bureau has it that 18% of those living in owner-occupied housing were in possession of it prior to 1980 and that another 13% came into possession of it after 1979 but prior to 1990. The analogous figures for a national sample are 11% and 10%.
  213. @HammerJack

    from what corner of the Wacky World of Websites did you obtain this gem?
     
    That's rich, coming from you with over half a million words' worth of assertions on this site alone, buttressed by roughly zero citations.

    My assertions come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Census Bureau, the Bureau of Economic Analysis, World Development Indicators, the Federal Reserve, the Digest of Education Statistics, the Statistical Abstracts and miscellaneous places I cite specifically.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    Apparently you don't know what a citation is. I guess that explains it.
  214. @Art Deco
    My assertions come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Census Bureau, the Bureau of Economic Analysis, World Development Indicators, the Federal Reserve, the Digest of Education Statistics, the Statistical Abstracts and miscellaneous places I cite specifically.

    Apparently you don’t know what a citation is. I guess that explains it.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Apparently, you don't read the citations I give you. If you want them in Turabian format, tough.
  215. @Bliss

    but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?
     
    It’s a wolfdog. Dogs are a subspecies of wolves. Are you saying races are a subspecies of humans?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)#Subspecies

    While in practice subspecies are often defined by easily observable physical appearance, there is not necessarily any evolutionary significance to these observed differences, so this form of classification has become less acceptable to evolutionary biologists.[72] Likewise this typological approach to race is generally regarded as discredited by biologists and anthropologists.
     

    You wouldn’t listen, would you? If you keep goading Katherine, he will continually seek the upper hand via quick wit, banter, all the while sidestepping the issue/question unless he is certain he will gain the upper hand. He attempts to come across as a reincarnation of Noelle Coward, but its more attune with “I know you are, but what am I?” Race, human, wolf, dog, whatever. It’s all the same with Katherine. Doesn’t really matter unless he can gain the upper hand in a semi-witty, semi-queer style.

    But you’ll learn.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    You wouldn’t listen, would you? If you keep goading Katherine,
     
    Katharine, dear fellow. Katherines are far too common...

    He attempts to come across as a reincarnation of Noelle Coward,
     
    Well, if one can't be Ambrose Bierce....
  216. @Anon
    The "hot Hawaiian women" are mostly tourists.

    Native Hawaiian women are, in general, not particularly attractive. The pretty island girls on the post cards and travel brochures are almost always Filipino.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    But pure native Hawaiians aren’t really a relevant percentage anymore. And the Filipinos have long intermixed with Chinese and Portuguese.

    Probably would be accurate to state that the sexy hot looking “Hawaiian” women in the minds and imaginations of Western men are a combination of East Asian-Latino, so they’re basically Eurasian. When a Eurasian mates with a WASP mainlander, the offspring will most like be around 60-75% white.
  217. @Spike Gomes
    Why don't they fight back?

    Two reasons. One, the military brats who do fight back are usually the children of what Hackett called "the Borderlanders". Fighting is in their blood going back generations, and they understand what this is about. It's about turf and respect. They carve out their own little fiefdom of the campus (usually the JROTC program) with it's allied cliques, and they stop getting hassled and have a place at the table.

    The other reason is that lots of whites in Hawaii are of the middle class stock who think life should be fair and violence isn't the answer. Folks really need to get over that. I mean, it's just turfing out and finding the borders, not a war of extermination against whites, and let's be frank you're kind of stuck with it now and who do you got to blame other than yourselves?

    I would have rather stayed an independent Kingdom, you know, but other smarter ethnic groups had better plans, I suppose.

    True dat. I gave my kids the fighting instruction and guidance I never received. I toughened up, lifted weights, and took martial arts while in the service.

    I told my boys to not pick on others, but if someone hit them they should hit them back as hard and as often as necessary. Told them they might get in trouble at school, but they wouldn’t be in trouble at home. One day a six year old thought my six year old would be easy prey. He fought back and got sent to the principal. Next day the same thing happened, but it stopped after that.

    Your kid’s school wants “peace.” If one kid is dominating your kid and your kid doesn’t fight back, the school calls that “peace” and is fine with it. You shouldn’t be.

    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Your kid’s school wants “peace.” If one kid is dominating your kid and your kid doesn’t fight back, the school calls that “peace” and is fine with it. You shouldn’t be.
     
    Yep.
    Now, one day, when....if...we elevate that rule onto national level things could start moving in right direction.
  218. @HammerJack
    Apparently you don't know what a citation is. I guess that explains it.

    Apparently, you don’t read the citations I give you. If you want them in Turabian format, tough.

  219. @Spike Gomes
    Why don't they fight back?

    Two reasons. One, the military brats who do fight back are usually the children of what Hackett called "the Borderlanders". Fighting is in their blood going back generations, and they understand what this is about. It's about turf and respect. They carve out their own little fiefdom of the campus (usually the JROTC program) with it's allied cliques, and they stop getting hassled and have a place at the table.

    The other reason is that lots of whites in Hawaii are of the middle class stock who think life should be fair and violence isn't the answer. Folks really need to get over that. I mean, it's just turfing out and finding the borders, not a war of extermination against whites, and let's be frank you're kind of stuck with it now and who do you got to blame other than yourselves?

    I would have rather stayed an independent Kingdom, you know, but other smarter ethnic groups had better plans, I suppose.

    ….lots of whites in Hawaii are of the middle class stock who think life should be fair and violence isn’t the answer.

    Hehehe…..yep.

  220. @Don't Look at Me
    True dat. I gave my kids the fighting instruction and guidance I never received. I toughened up, lifted weights, and took martial arts while in the service.

    I told my boys to not pick on others, but if someone hit them they should hit them back as hard and as often as necessary. Told them they might get in trouble at school, but they wouldn't be in trouble at home. One day a six year old thought my six year old would be easy prey. He fought back and got sent to the principal. Next day the same thing happened, but it stopped after that.

    Your kid's school wants "peace." If one kid is dominating your kid and your kid doesn't fight back, the school calls that "peace" and is fine with it. You shouldn't be.

    Your kid’s school wants “peace.” If one kid is dominating your kid and your kid doesn’t fight back, the school calls that “peace” and is fine with it. You shouldn’t be.

    Yep.
    Now, one day, when….if…we elevate that rule onto national level things could start moving in right direction.

  221. @Spike Gomes
    A large part of that "Caucasian" population was Portuguese, like my grandfather and his three sisters. They aren't considered "haole", though my Dad's generation was really the last one of pure Portuguese. They interbred themselves out of existence, leaving only last names, tiny guitars, and the basic cadence of pidgen English as their heritage.

    For that you can mostly blame the Catholic Church. Ethnic parishes never really formed here, as the diocese was staffed mostly by priests and bishops from Europe who were very hostile to the descendants of the Protestant missionaries who ran the plantations. If a young Catholic couple of good standing wanted to get married and the parents disapproved, the couple would often go to their parish priest who would council the families to accept the union lest greater sins occur. Happened twice in my family back in the day.

    Portuguese generally filled out the skilled tradesmen positions in the territorial days. There's still examples of my great-grandfather's stonework standing around the island. As time got on, they were heavily represented in the Police and Fire Departments, but were never a dominating group there.

    Also, lost of people have been living in the same houses for generations here. Just look at the real estate prices. You think the average local is making enough bank to afford a down payment with the wages here?

    Also, lost of people have been living in the same houses for generations here. Just look at the real estate prices. You think the average local is making enough bank to afford a down payment with the wages here?

    Zillow does list astonishing prices for quite banal-looking condos. The Census Bureau has it that 18% of those living in owner-occupied housing were in possession of it prior to 1980 and that another 13% came into possession of it after 1979 but prior to 1990. The analogous figures for a national sample are 11% and 10%.

  222. @Don't Look at Me
    Native Hawaiian women are, in general, not particularly attractive. The pretty island girls on the post cards and travel brochures are almost always Filipino.

    But pure native Hawaiians aren’t really a relevant percentage anymore. And the Filipinos have long intermixed with Chinese and Portuguese.

    Probably would be accurate to state that the sexy hot looking “Hawaiian” women in the minds and imaginations of Western men are a combination of East Asian-Latino, so they’re basically Eurasian. When a Eurasian mates with a WASP mainlander, the offspring will most like be around 60-75% white.

  223. @Spike Gomes
    You rang?

    Lots to unpack here, so as the resident (part)-Hawaiian of isteve, I'm going to give it my best shot to answer some of the repeated themes here.

    First off, yes, there is a "Kill Haole" day, but it's nowhere near the peak of the phenomenon, which was the late 60s-early 80s, as the early 1990s coincided with a state crackdown on fighting and other forms of extreme physical bullying. Nowdays, "Kill Haole Day" is confined to rougher schools like Farrington and Campbell, with other schools having "no-go" bathrooms and hang-out spots for whites on that day (usually in April). It's non-existent in private schools, public schools in good neighborhoods, and places where the whites fight back collectively and hard (schools with large amounts of military brats).

    It's unpleasant, but this sort of behavior is rarely "for blood", despite the gruesomeness of the name. The primary goal is humiliation. Hence, one is more likely to get dragged into a bathroom and have their head dunked in an unflushed toilet than to have the stuffing beat out of them. You will get a minor beating if you fight back hard, and you will lose since it'll be ten to one, but at the same time you'll gain a measure of respect, and locals will give you less sh*t in the future.

    Yeah, in general there is a lot of hostility to outsiders here, whether they're white, black or what have you. The best way to deal with it is thus: If it's passive-aggressive joking and comments, just smile and play along with it, be the butt of the joke. Mind you, observations on ethnic origin, religion and stereotypes is very common and accepted by locals, and it might not even be hostile at all. Locals often will comment on even negative ethnic stereotypes without it really being targeted at an individual. If the verbal stuff starts getting overt and targeted, just be silent and stoic, and if it's physical, give back as good as you get... unless you're in a bar or around drunk people. Sh*t get's stupid then, but even then situational awareness of the kind of place the drunk people are will save your ass.

    Speaking of, yes there are ethnic niches here, including for white people. Some of them are remarkably specific. For example, nearly every stonemason here will be Tongan. The Japanese used to be power-brokers for the state here, but that's changed with their demographic decline. They're older, fewer, and the smartest and most talented of their youngest generally leave for greener and more affordable pastures on the mainland. There's still some places like Hilo where they control everything, but now they're forced to share power. Back in the day, from the 1960s-1980s was their peak, though they were most a political and administrative class (including Unions, which are almost a branch of the government here). Economic power was held by the Big Five (Five sugar companies that became land companies, mostly owned collectively by old money Caucasians going back to the 1800s), the Bishop Estate (ostensibly a non-profit for the benefit of Hawaiian education, but mostly run by white and Asian mainline Protestants), and a Chinese mercantile class which ran most of the retail here. Hawaiians were often employed either as blue collar workers by the government, or as entertainers or "face" in the burgeoning tourist industry if they were lucky.

    That economic and political situation changed as more white mainlanders and more FOB Asians moved here in the 70s-80s. The money dumped in here by Japanese investors in the 1980s as well as the widescale opening to national chains and cable television also did a number. Now the political situation is thus: The Dems are completely dominant here, an utter supermajority, with a few Republicans hanging on for dear life in a handful of districts that either have a large retired military population, or a large Evangelical or Mormon Polynesian population. The Dems are divided between two teams, the one that is usually dominant is the old power bloc founded by the Japanese-Americans, which now shares power with most local Asians and Polynesians. It's surprisingly socially conservative, but defers to the national party on plank issues, and it's power and money is located in the Unions, both private and governmental, blue collar voters born here, and the rural districts of the neighboring islands and real estate companies. The Bloc that is not dominant *here* (though they tend to go to the Senate and House of Reps more often than not) is comprised of socially progressive SWPLs originally from the mainland, college educated locals who can't speak pidgin convincingly but somehow never got around to leaving the state, and politically radical Hawaiians who would prefer a restoration of the Kingdom of Hawaii. These two blocs fight a bit over the levers, with the fault lines usually being environmental and cultural concerns (like the recent brouhaha over the new telescopes planned on Mauna Kea).

    The state has a major problem with brain-drain, it really has nothing to offer the talented born here, and even if you're well connected, the price of living is high and home ownership is an impossibility. For those not well connected, and picked a stupid degree in religious studies at the local university, well, I'm a security guard with a Master's Degree. I really should have stayed in STEM, but then, I don't think a botany degree would have me doing much better here.

    That's enough for now.

    Anyone got any questions?

    Thanks for the interesting info!

    Why didn’t you move away, if there is such a mismatch between your job and your education level?

    • Replies: @Spike Gomes
    Because this is where family is, this is where my ancestors are buried. It's important to me to be here even if it's at the cost of my individual personal actualization and happiness.
  224. @Romanian
    Thanks for the interesting info!

    Why didn't you move away, if there is such a mismatch between your job and your education level?

    Because this is where family is, this is where my ancestors are buried. It’s important to me to be here even if it’s at the cost of my individual personal actualization and happiness.

    • Replies: @Romanian
    Thank you for the answer. That is eminently respectable and to be admired. Nor do I wish to move away from my country.
  225. @Spike Gomes
    Because this is where family is, this is where my ancestors are buried. It's important to me to be here even if it's at the cost of my individual personal actualization and happiness.

    Thank you for the answer. That is eminently respectable and to be admired. Nor do I wish to move away from my country.

  226. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    You wouldn't listen, would you? If you keep goading Katherine, he will continually seek the upper hand via quick wit, banter, all the while sidestepping the issue/question unless he is certain he will gain the upper hand. He attempts to come across as a reincarnation of Noelle Coward, but its more attune with "I know you are, but what am I?" Race, human, wolf, dog, whatever. It's all the same with Katherine. Doesn't really matter unless he can gain the upper hand in a semi-witty, semi-queer style.

    But you'll learn.

    You wouldn’t listen, would you? If you keep goading Katherine,

    Katharine, dear fellow. Katherines are far too common…

    He attempts to come across as a reincarnation of Noelle Coward,

    Well, if one can’t be Ambrose Bierce….

  227. @Bliss

    but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?
     
    It’s a wolfdog. Dogs are a subspecies of wolves. Are you saying races are a subspecies of humans?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)#Subspecies

    While in practice subspecies are often defined by easily observable physical appearance, there is not necessarily any evolutionary significance to these observed differences, so this form of classification has become less acceptable to evolutionary biologists.[72] Likewise this typological approach to race is generally regarded as discredited by biologists and anthropologists.
     

    Sorry, dear boy. I completely forgot about our little conversation…..

    but what about the familiaris bit, the subspecies to which the dog belongs. Is the offspring of wolf and dog Canis lupus familiaris?

    It’s a wolfdog.

    There you go. A mixture of two things. The same holds true for an Australoid + Caucasoid combo.

  228. @Reg Cæsar

    her mother of Japanese descent and her father white from an Italian-Irish background.
     
    Two enemies and a neutral! She's practically guilty of holocaust herself.

    Hawaii is a place where blacks are a tiny and well-selected fraction of the population.


     

    In the mid-'90s I did some census research on a university geography lab computer (that could probably be done with a Web site and a smartphone today) on children without adult males in the household, as a proxy for bastardy.

    In 46 states, the black figure was higher than the worst state for whites. But in two states, the black figure was better than the best for any state's whites.

    Those two states were North Dakota and Hawaii. Obviously the military was doing some serious selecting. The Air Force is prominent in both states, as well as the Navy and Coast Guard in Hawaii. They don't trust their expensive equipment to just anybody.

    Judging by some recent collisions at sea, they are now trusting their expensive equipment to just anybody.

  229. @Reg Cæsar

    Hawaii was once intensely in the national spotlight, but since the 1970s it has largely disappeared. It’s a pretty interesting place, but nobody is interested in it anymore.
     
    Same with Alaska. Tell the Puerto Ricans statehood is overrated.

    The difference is that all the Puerto Ricans will move to the mainland.

  230. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    0bama got mau-maued big-time by Bobby Rush the first time he ran for Congress in 2000. He got crushed.

    Silly me. I lived in that district during the campaign and, due to not knowing much about him, had a fairly high opinion of Obama. I thought that Rush put paid to Obama’s political ambitions.

  231. @Gern
    ...white, Filipino, Hawaiian...

    No future for people who describe themselves as lower case common nouns.

    Yeah, but if I capitalize “white”, it would be rayciss to not capitalize “black”.

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