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Have White Men Committed the Majority of the 521 Mass Shootings Since Orlando?
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From Newsweek:

WHITE MEN HAVE COMMITTED MORE MASS SHOOTINGS THAN ANY OTHER GROUP

BY JOHN HALTIWANGER ON 10/2/17 AT 11:39 AM

The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was shocking in its scale — but it wasn’t a surprise that it was committed by a white male.

Statistics show that since 1982, the majority of mass shootings — 54 percent — were committed by white men, according to data from Mother Jones. Black people were the second largest perpetrators of mass shootings based on ethnic background, but only accounted for roughly 16 percent of the total incidents during the same time period. …

Other research suggests white men commit mass shootings out of a sense of entitlement.

James Holmes, for example, had failed out of his PhD program when he opened fire in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Dylann Roof was unemployed when he gunned down nine people at the end of a prayer service in a Charteston [sic], South Carolina church.

“There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”

But others say it’s hard to point to any single factor in terms of why white men have comitted [sic] most mass shootings.

Such as whites making up a sizable majority of males on average over the time period since 1982?

Meanwhile, from the New York Times:

477 Days [after the Orlando gay nightclub jihadi massacre]. 521 Mass Shootings. Zero Action From Congress.

From Newsweek’s source, Mother Jones, there have only been 10 mass shootings since Orlando. The New York Times, in contrast, counts 521. Which is it?

I can’t tell what Mother Jones’ criteria is, but it looks like a minimum of three killed. The New York Times criterion is a total of at least four wounded or killed.

And if there have been 521 since June 2016, were a majority committed by white men? Or have a large fraction been gangbangers banging away in the general direction of another gang?

All these events are bad. But they tend to be rather different. Most of the NYT’s “mass shootings” are carried out by criminals for impulsive or business reasons. The shooters usually want to stay alive and unarrested so they scram quickly after unleashing some bullets. They typically don’t use rifles and don’t hang around to finish off the wounded.

The much rarer mass killing shootings in the Mother Jones list tend to be carried out by suicidal killers. Suicide is more of a white thing, homicide a black thing.

An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined.

In the Mother Jones list there are only 8 from 1982-1989, and then they start to accelerate around 1991. Interestingly, they stop after 9/11 for almost two years, but then sped up again. Why was that?

 
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  1. I support stronger gun control, but the fact is democrats wouldn’t get anywhere even if without republican opposition because, as this silly article demonstrates, they’re too consumed with their crackpot racial politics. You can’t simultaneously crack down on gun crime and carry out black lives matter mandated de policing.

    Read More
    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @Coemgen
    Why skip past the 1st Amendment to infringe on the 2nd?

    Let's first stop interpreting the 1st in a broad "liberal" manner.

    Let "freedom of the press" be exactly what it states. That is, it only applies to the output of a printing press.

    Let "freedom of speech" be exactly what it states. That is, it only applies to the the sounds from one's mouth to another's ear.

    Electronic transmission of speach or printing would not be free in this case.

    The violent training programs (video games, movies, etc.) would no longer be freely available to teach the "Stephen Paddocks of the world" how to kill.
    , @Neoconned
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-article-1.1221062

    They aren't more common Steve. There were a lot more in the early 20th century.

    And in the recent era they peaked in the 80s and 90s and in particular the late 1990s. Theyve actually been on the decline.

    The 24/7 media didnt exist twenty yrs ago and gins this crap up to get ratings.

    That and the gun grabbers and police unions are pushing this narrative.

    The gun grabbers for obvious reasons and the cops/prison sector because they've created a police state w the largest convict population on the planet that's consuming an insane portiom of GDP.

    That and the fact violent crime is way down since the mid 1990s and they have to scare up fake crime trends to retain their jobs and pensions.

    If more Americans and especially right wingers realized this therewould be credible calls for a 30-60pc reduction in prison slash court slash law enforcement employment and these peoplr would have to compete with honest work like the rest of us broke peons.
    , @Twinkie

    I support stronger gun control
     
    Then women like you don't have to have any. It's a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don't get in the way of MY gun ownership.
    , @Sane Left Libertarian
    Bullseye. The DEM party has only two issues. 1) All white people are racist, and 2) All men are sexist/misogynist. Whatever hay can be made out of those is all they'll ever have.
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  2. White men have a lot of self-control, but they are also good at killing. If they had the self-control of blacks, every non-white person on Earth would be dead by now.

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    • LOL: Abe
    • Replies: @Thomm
    That would be true if smart, successful white guys were inclined to do this. Paddock may have fit this bill, sadly.

    But WN losers are so inept that their mass-shootings kill very few people despite the element of surprise. See the WN loser in Kansas city who tried to kill two Indian engineers, but still only managed to kill one despite the element of surprise and point blank range. That is the typical WN level of competence (fortunately - it is sad that one of the engineers died).

    , @dr kill
    This is what's in store for Europe when the Normals finally have had enough.
    , @Anonymous
    And most whites as well.
    , @Silva
    Not endorsing (or rejecting) a racialist hypothesis (but the same could be said culturally): if whites had the self-control of blacks, they wouldn't be good at killing.
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  3. Such as whites making up a sizable majority of males on average over the time period since 1982?

    Yes. At a minimum, the figures should be weighted according to number of people in each group.

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    • Replies: @oddsbodkins
    Rule 16 of activist journalism:
    Normalize statistics only when the result suits your agenda.
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  4. Alice says:

    Because it’s almost two years til the US war in Iraq, and the ramp up of the mainstream media collusion with ANSWR to push mentally unstable folks to act on their hate of self and/or America.

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  5. The key thing is we disarm to the goyim because #NeverAgain.

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    • Agree: Kevin C.
    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Cucksworth
    The end goal of disarming the population is to eventually rearm a politically connected minority to control/enforce/enslave the now defenseless majority.
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  6. “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”

    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can’t take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas


    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can’t take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.
     
    Not mentioned there is that it's been official government policy for decades to give these jobs, government contracts and below market interest loans to blacks and Mexicans, and it was largely the idea of Jews.
    , @bomag

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012.
     
    Sounds like something made up to fit the narrative. I see the opposite: non-whites lecturing constantly about how everything belongs to them and white men have to go away; white men passively accepting this and going quietly into the dark night.
    , @Antlitz Grollheim
    lol yea black men don't feel entitled to working hard to pay for a bunch of ingrate savages
    , @AndrewR
    Does this guy honestly think that blacks "don't have a feeling of entitlement"??? Blacks on average have a MUCH higher sense of entitlement than whites.
    , @1661er

    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can’t take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.
     
    Remember there were some news reporting about Social Security Administration was ordering large quantity of hallow point bullets?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011107040.html

    One group of workers for whom threats are an increasing problem are Social Security employees, especially the agency's administrative law judges.
     
    They are also very concerned about people who may or may not be able-bodied. Since SSDI had became the default safety net early-retirement for so many people.
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  7. An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined.

    I think that’s wrong. I’m opposed to gun control, but many of the suicidal mass shooters are autistic losers, who want to take revenge on the world for their failed miserable lives. But these guys don’t necessarily have the social skills to find the black market for guns. And using firearms has a certain glamour that plowing a truck into a crowd often lacks. Occasionally they might still resort to a truck attack, though.

    In any event, that’s a very rare type of crime, but it’s not impossible that its likelihood could be reduced by tight gun control. That’s about the only type of crime that I could think of where it really might work.

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    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    There are some Anders Breivik types who would be able to circumvent the laws and get guns. But you're right that some would be so crazy and socially awkward that they simply wouldn't be able to maneuver through the black market.

    It's worth noting that Breivik was also able to get the fertilizer explosives and we still the utility in restricting access to those (a stance that has probably saved countless lives).
    , @MarkinLA
    Anybody can be "sane" for 1/2 an hour. So even if you have to see a psychiatrist to get a gun, it won't change anything except for criminals bribing psychiatrists.
    , @Jack D
    Regarding Olga, I would be really pissed too if I was a cartoon character.
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  8. Sean says:

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined

    Such people in Nevada can apparently get automatic rifles or rifles that can be converted into a belt or massive magazine machine gun.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    If you're shooting into a dense crowd, an automatic gun might be an advantage, especially if you were a bad shot. In most situations, however, it might be a disadvantage, because you'll need to reload too often, basically each time you pull the trigger.
    , @Chris Mallory
    To get a legal automatic rifle takes at least a six month wait while the ATF runs a background check, a $200 tax, and then you have to find one for sale at a cost of $10,000 or more. Citizens are prohibited from buying any automatic weapon made after 1984. So the supply of legal machine guns has a hard limit and the price is sky high.

    Now some might be capable of machining a semi auto and it's parts to make it fully automatic. Or you might smuggle one in from Mexico. Both of those options are illegal.
    , @Rod1963
    No it's more than that.

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex

    Seriously, this guy wasn't your typical gun nut who spent a lot of time at the range and prepper sites with a massive library of military tactic manuals. He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know.

    Plus the motivation angle: None of the traditional motives make any sense.

    His attacking the country music crowd instead of the casinos.This was a political attack There was nothing stopping him from leasing a two engine prop job, loading it to the gills with ANFO or even jet fuel and flying it into the casino.

    He didn't

    Instead he targeted a mostly white, and traditionally American music festival, he was making a deliberate political statement to you know who.

    There is something law enforcement isn't telling us because it's politically very explosive. I mean the police are going out of their way to throw up a wall of bullshit. The only times they say they can't find the motive for a mass killing is when it involves Muslims.

    ISIS would claim the attack as one of their

    Consider that.
    .
    , @MarkinLA
    You cannot legally convert any semi-auto into full auto. That gets you 10 years in a federal prison. Fully automatic weapons are available but are hard to get. There is a long process and the legally transferable ones are very expensive. Some states like California make it very hard for individuals to get them although the work around by that psycho Dorner was to create a corporation and have the corporation own it. That loophole has been tightened. However anybody willing to throw down 16K to get an M-16 is probably not planning to use it criminally.

    http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/christopher-dorner-how-life-on-the-run-ended-for-calif-police-killer-1.4662786

    I wonder if he was a mass shooting guy? He killed people on different days over his firing.
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  9. Brabantian says: • Website

    Certainly the ‘older white guy with guns’ image, has been a Hollywood stereotype staple of vilification for the last quarter century … Who can forget Michael Douglas pulling out a gun to get his fast-food breakfast at WhammyBurger in 1993′s ‘Falling Down’

    And maybe the most over-the-top of all ‘crazy white guy with guns’ films, 2012′s truly odd ‘God Bless America’, where a teen girl joins the guy on a killing spree ending in a theatre massacre

    With all the dodgy aspects of the ‘official story’ of this event, the reports of multiple shooters, video of what appear to be shots from other locations, the lack of any common-sense basis of why this wealthy white guy with cute female companionship would do this, the offer to hire ‘crisis actors’ in Las Vegas before the event, the warning on 4Chan before the concert to avoid public events in Vegas, the ‘Latina couple’ at the concert warning attendees they would be killed shortly … For those inclined, it’s curious to observe that the massacre ‘human sacrifice’ took place directly under the Illuminati-symbolic huge Las Vegas Pyramid & Sphinx, as seen in this photo

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    Don't forget McBain's "Let's Get Silly" where he unleashes gunfire and grenades on a crowd of hecklers. Talk about white privilege. How does he sleep at night?
    , @Cagey Beast
    I'd say Falling Down was sympathetic to White men; to a subversive degree. Robert Duvall's role as the long suffering cop must be kept in mind as well.
    , @Karl
    9 Brabantian > with cute female companionship


    Can I have some of that drug they've been feeding you? I want to feed it to my enemies.

    You know, the one which makes you think that a 62-year-old divorcee with a cock-carousel-riding track record, is "cute".


    With a little effort, the guy could have had one that was 30 years younger.
    , @bored identity




    "...cute female companionship...."

     

    bored identity just learned how the old adage about cuteness being in the eye of the beholder is totally legit.

    Also, alcohol & drugs could be detrimental to your judgment.
    , @Stan d Mute
    Another note for your conspiracy theory file - the site is directly across from Janet Air terminal at McCarran. Janet is of course the primary way into and out of Area 51 and Nevada Test Range.
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  10. There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren’t as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

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    • Replies: @scrivener3
    They are not competent to own a dangerous object, but they are competent enough to vote for politicians and give them unlimited power over abortion, what portion of earnings everyone gets to keep, the monetary obligation of spouses to each other after a divorce, the health care system, interest rates, volume of money,purchase of troubled assets with taxpayer money, subsidies for housing and higher education, regulation of the telecommunications system and the internet, incurring unlimited public debt and basically every other aspect of my life.

    When the debt comes due and borrowing runs out, people who trusted in politicians instead of themselves will be facing real deprivation and wondering why.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    "People are too screwed up to be trusted with them." Speak for yourself pal.

    God, you have more liberal lie BS in that screed than a Brooks' column.
    , @anonymous
    Banning the use and sale of narcotics for non-medical purposes has worked. Banning illegal entry into these United States has worked. So I’m all for banning firearms!
    , @Maj. Kong
    Widespread gun ownership acts as a deterrent on the politicians, a historical practice not usually seen in most countries. While it is inflammatory to say it, the right-wing is willing to accept the deaths as the price to retain its veto power.

    The Canadian Parliament was nearly wiped out by a single terrorist.

    Europe has near-total bans in some nations, and nations where the laws are similar to American blue states. The deranged are easier to deter in a police state with socialist health care, whereas terrorists are not.
    , @Randal

    Neither argument sounded particularly convincing.
     
    Perhaps not to someone who has a visceral fear of guns like yourself, probably, to judge from your "people are too screwed up to be trusted with them" comment. But for the hard headed grownups amongst us, the latter point is objectively correct (see numerous reports from the US debate over the past few decades), and the former is logically incontrovertible.

    Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings
     
    At the cost of infantilising the population and rendering them helpless in the face of criminals with guns, or just bigger and stronger criminals.

    And the reality is that the cost of mass shootings is trivial in national terms - depending upon the definition they account for a few tens to a few hundreds of deaths per year in the US. There were 15,000 homicides in the US in 2015. The inevitable panicky insistence on banning guns in response to the latest incident is sentimental hysteria or cynical opportunism.

    In truth, taking out the US's particular problem with murderous violence in its black ghettos, its overall rate of deaths from guns would easily be a price more than worth paying for the benefits of having guns available to ordinary people to protect their homes and families, even if it were all attributable to its gun liberty.
    , @Buzz Mohawk

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with [guns].
     
    Oh sure, so let's just trust our authorities to have them. That's just great. It's the mentality of "our superiors know better."

    There is a reason for the Second Amendment. It still holds.

    We'll give up our arms when those who are supposed to derive their power from us give up theirs. No, that's not right, because we want them armed, to do their jobs.

    This same gun topic goes 'round and 'round every time. Let's outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.

    Yes, let's take away Man's freedom to make fire. After all, he's too crazy to be trusted with it.

    No wonder most people on Earth have never been free. They're easy to control.

    There's an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people's luggage when they check into hotels now. He says we need to live like the Israelis. Nonsense. We're already being poked, prodded, scanned and intruded upon too much. There comes a point when you have to tell your parents to leave you alone and let you live in the real world with all its risks.

    Liberty or death. So be it.

    , @MarkinLA
    Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings.

    Just like the drugs laws in those countries have kept the drugs out. Why didn't you mention Mexico or Central America as a shining example of what tight gun control can do?
    , @Polynikes
    Charlie hebdo. The nutter in scandanavia. Criminals in seem to get guns OK in Europe.

    Same in Mexico, where they have strict gun control too.
    , @Anonymous
    It's undeniably true that open gun laws will cost lives, but I also think there is something to the argument that a government should have a heathy fear of it's population.

    If the population wasn't armed, the government (which I believe is corrupt) would be far more aggressive in taking away liberties. We see in Europe, the government in Germany censoring media and in the UK police are making visits to people's homes who post impolite things on Internet forums. They have made critique of Jewish power or Israel virtually illegal.

    The elite know people are upset. They would like nothing more than to take away free speech. They would love nothing more than a feeble, pauperized, unthreatening population. What many don't understand is that the elite don't really want a healthy, involved, united middle-class -- the leadership of America have actually become UN-American. They have outgrown America. The American system and it's people hamper and threaten them and their real objectives.

    If you watch the Documentary 'We Need to Talk About Sandy Hook' you'll get some idea of just how keen the government is to get guns out of the hands of Americans.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI6zOKnRZ7I


    We live in interesting times. I hope Americans will stay armed at least until Civil War V.2 is over.
    , @Jack D
    Even if what you say is correct, there are now more guns than people in America. The government has no idea who owns these guns for the most part. Even if you rounded up say 90% of the guns, that would still leave maybe 30 million around. Not to mention that (even putting aside 3D printing and CAD/CAM) it's not that hard to make your own gun. All kinds of illegal drugs get smuggled into the US - gun running would be a lucrative sideline. In short, even if getting rid of guns was really a good idea, you are never going to get the genie back in the bottle.
    , @TWS
    Then don't own one or go live somewhere the ownership and use are not protected rights.
    , @Twinkie

    And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing.
     
    Well, if facts didn't convince you...

    Researcher Gary Kleck's study found 5 times as many defensive use of guns as gun crimes.

    Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren’t as freely available.
     
    You think suicidal people will say, "Gee. I can't get a gun. I guess I won't slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river"?

    Gun deaths by accident are exceedingly rare. Much rarer than drowning in pools or mortally falling from stairs.

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.
     
    I usually find that people who are afraid of guns tend to project.
    , @Dr. X

    Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren’t as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.
     
    Does that include the "screwed up people" who happen to wear a government badge or a government uniform?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.
     
    Certainly people named "Ali".
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  11. Since the vast majority of mass shootings have been carried out by men, and not women or persons of indeterminate sex, it would appear that the prime causative factor is the influence of testosterone on the human brain.

    The solution, then, would probably be gelding all human males at a young age, with exceptions for those who are exceptional candidates for breeding and improving the stock of the human race. Quite a few men are already volunteering for the neutering program without the offer of financial incentives. And there would be no shortage of volunteers (mostly feminists, no doubt) for training as gelding technicians or camel brickers. A beta-testing program has already been given an extended trial on horses, and there is no doubt that it has been effective in reducing equine delinquency. The number of people killed by equine behavior-related accidents has dramatically fallen over the last century or so and a genetic speed limit has been applied to horses, mules, donkeys, ponies, camels and other quadrupeds used for transportation and racing.

    What could possibly go wrong?

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    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Antlitz Grollheim
    finally someone is thinking this thru
    , @bomag, @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Steve's b-school buddy Martine Rothblatt suggested in a book that all males be forced to get vasectomies at puberty, after storing sperm samples, to prevent unwanted pregnancies. The sperm would be given back in adulthood if the man wanted to have children...
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  12. OT, but has Steve ever considered compiling a “Best of iSteve/Steve Sailer” book? I was just thinking about this because it seems that Ta-Nehisi Coates is about to con ~3/4ths of America’s cognoscenti into buying his (already freely available) greatest hits collection when they thought they’d be buying new content.

    Whereas I think a Best of Steve Sailer book would be genuinely valuable, since there’s so much good Steve Sailer content, but trawling through the entire archives is tedious. And there are lots of relatively new Sailer fans, like myself, who would be/are interested in his relatively older writings.

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    • Agree: Travis
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  13. @Sean

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined
     
    Such people in Nevada can apparently get automatic rifles or rifles that can be converted into a belt or massive magazine machine gun.

    If you’re shooting into a dense crowd, an automatic gun might be an advantage, especially if you were a bad shot. In most situations, however, it might be a disadvantage, because you’ll need to reload too often, basically each time you pull the trigger.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The shooter didn't have an automatic weapon. There were pictures of Paddock's room with the guns lying on the floor. One had a bump fire stock, which is cheap and legal. A bump fire stock is easily attached to an semi-auto gun and uses combo of forward movement & recoil to engage trigger rapidly. It's almost indistinguishable from an automatic.
    , @Anonymous
    The shooter didn't have an automatic weapon. There were pictures of Paddock's room with the guns lying on the floor. One had a bump fire stock, which is cheap and legal. A bump fire stock is easily attached to an semi-auto gun and uses combo of forward movement & recoil to engage trigger rapidly. It's almost indistinguishable from an automatic.
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  14. Truth says:

    Quite a few men are already volunteering for the neutering program without the offer of financial incentives.

    I think you meant this in jest, but it wasn’t.

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  15. @reiner Tor

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined.
     
    I think that's wrong. I’m opposed to gun control, but many of the suicidal mass shooters are autistic losers, who want to take revenge on the world for their failed miserable lives. But these guys don’t necessarily have the social skills to find the black market for guns. And using firearms has a certain glamour that plowing a truck into a crowd often lacks. Occasionally they might still resort to a truck attack, though.

    In any event, that's a very rare type of crime, but it's not impossible that its likelihood could be reduced by tight gun control. That's about the only type of crime that I could think of where it really might work.

    There are some Anders Breivik types who would be able to circumvent the laws and get guns. But you’re right that some would be so crazy and socially awkward that they simply wouldn’t be able to maneuver through the black market.

    It’s worth noting that Breivik was also able to get the fertilizer explosives and we still the utility in restricting access to those (a stance that has probably saved countless lives).

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  16. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Are moslems counted as “white”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Travis
    most likely they do count Muslims from Europe , North Africa and the Middle East as white as the US government and the US census still counts them as white.

    They probably also put most hispanics in the white category , as they did with George Zimmerman...
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Are moslems counted as “white”?
     
    Only when it's convenient.

    Just as with "Hispanics"; cf. hate crime victim and perpetrator categories.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Only in the sense that Catholics are also "white".
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  17. Wilkey says:

    Mass shootings are unique in the sense that the perpetrator quite often doesn’t expect to survive. It’s a form of suicide, and whites have higher suicide rates, so it shouldn’t be surprising that a violent crime that is similar to suicide is committed by whites in closer proportion to their share of the general population.

    They are also unique in that the perp isn’t trying to get anything from the victim (money, sex) and a lot of times doesn’t even know them. Black crime is more like a temper tantrum – a perp lashing out angrily for something he can’t obtain, like wealth, sex, “respect,” etc. Yet blacks still commit mass shootings disproportionate to their numbers, if in this case only slightly.

    So this author is using the fact that white men areally almost equally represented to their share of the population (since men commit most violent crimes in general) as a means to attack whites. When is he going to attack black men – ~7% of the population – for committing ~45% of this nation’s murders? Never would be the best guess.

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    • Replies: @Nico

    Yet blacks still commit mass shootings disproportionate to their numbers, if in this case only slightly.
     
    This isn't a surprise. Relative to the general population* blacks are over represented among murderers by a factor of about 7 but among serial killers by a factor of only two. The explanation is that mathematically, extreme statistical outliers tend to converge, so at the far end of the curve there begins to show some convergence. I suspect this phenomenon also accounts for at least some of the convergence in mass shooting representation as well.

    * Race and crime correlations are still defined in terms of "black and white." Casual observations of the "WANTED" lineups suggest that if Hispanics were broken out the black/white differential would be even starker.
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  18. @Sean

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined
     
    Such people in Nevada can apparently get automatic rifles or rifles that can be converted into a belt or massive magazine machine gun.

    To get a legal automatic rifle takes at least a six month wait while the ATF runs a background check, a $200 tax, and then you have to find one for sale at a cost of $10,000 or more. Citizens are prohibited from buying any automatic weapon made after 1984. So the supply of legal machine guns has a hard limit and the price is sky high.

    Now some might be capable of machining a semi auto and it’s parts to make it fully automatic. Or you might smuggle one in from Mexico. Both of those options are illegal.

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  19. Wilkey says:

    If white men have committed *only* 54% of the mass shootings since 1982 then in all likelihood they have committen less than 50% – perhaps much less than 50% – of those since Pulse. The vibrantizing of the Universal Peoplez has accelerated dramatically since 1982.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    If white men have committed *only* 54% of the mass shootings since 1982 then in all likelihood they have committen less than 50% – perhaps much less than 50% – of those since Pulse. The vibrantizing of the Universal Peoplez has accelerated dramatically since 1982.

    Except that hispanics and arabs generally get counted as white when they do bad things.
    , @Travis
    I suspect you are correct.
    80% of the adult population was white in 1985.
    today less than 70% are non-hispanic White, even lower among adults under 40.
    , @MarkinLA
    One need also ask what is so special about 1982? Is this the date that guns became available to the public. This is a lot like the stock picker choosing his end dates to report on his stock picking prowess.
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  20. Thomm says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    White men have a lot of self-control, but they are also good at killing. If they had the self-control of blacks, every non-white person on Earth would be dead by now.

    That would be true if smart, successful white guys were inclined to do this. Paddock may have fit this bill, sadly.

    But WN losers are so inept that their mass-shootings kill very few people despite the element of surprise. See the WN loser in Kansas city who tried to kill two Indian engineers, but still only managed to kill one despite the element of surprise and point blank range. That is the typical WN level of competence (fortunately – it is sad that one of the engineers died).

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  21. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @reiner Tor
    If you're shooting into a dense crowd, an automatic gun might be an advantage, especially if you were a bad shot. In most situations, however, it might be a disadvantage, because you'll need to reload too often, basically each time you pull the trigger.

    The shooter didn’t have an automatic weapon. There were pictures of Paddock’s room with the guns lying on the floor. One had a bump fire stock, which is cheap and legal. A bump fire stock is easily attached to an semi-auto gun and uses combo of forward movement & recoil to engage trigger rapidly. It’s almost indistinguishable from an automatic.

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  22. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @reiner Tor
    If you're shooting into a dense crowd, an automatic gun might be an advantage, especially if you were a bad shot. In most situations, however, it might be a disadvantage, because you'll need to reload too often, basically each time you pull the trigger.

    The shooter didn’t have an automatic weapon. There were pictures of Paddock’s room with the guns lying on the floor. One had a bump fire stock, which is cheap and legal. A bump fire stock is easily attached to an semi-auto gun and uses combo of forward movement & recoil to engage trigger rapidly. It’s almost indistinguishable from an automatic.

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  23. scrivener3 says: • Website
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    They are not competent to own a dangerous object, but they are competent enough to vote for politicians and give them unlimited power over abortion, what portion of earnings everyone gets to keep, the monetary obligation of spouses to each other after a divorce, the health care system, interest rates, volume of money,purchase of troubled assets with taxpayer money, subsidies for housing and higher education, regulation of the telecommunications system and the internet, incurring unlimited public debt and basically every other aspect of my life.

    When the debt comes due and borrowing runs out, people who trusted in politicians instead of themselves will be facing real deprivation and wondering why.

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  24. Other research suggests white men commit mass shootings out of a sense of entitlement.

    If you assiduously avoid peeking into the psychiatric histories of mass shooters, you can make claims like this.

    The NRA has some power. Its contributions come from gun owners.

    Big Pharma takes out multi-page glossy ads in failing periodicals like Newsweek and spends for 45 second spots during prime time and the Superbowl. Now that’s power.

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  25. @Brabantian
    Certainly the 'older white guy with guns' image, has been a Hollywood stereotype staple of vilification for the last quarter century ... Who can forget Michael Douglas pulling out a gun to get his fast-food breakfast at WhammyBurger in 1993's 'Falling Down'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reugi90fjCo
    And maybe the most over-the-top of all 'crazy white guy with guns' films, 2012's truly odd 'God Bless America', where a teen girl joins the guy on a killing spree ending in a theatre massacre
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruArw21EGA
    With all the dodgy aspects of the 'official story' of this event, the reports of multiple shooters, video of what appear to be shots from other locations, the lack of any common-sense basis of why this wealthy white guy with cute female companionship would do this, the offer to hire 'crisis actors' in Las Vegas before the event, the warning on 4Chan before the concert to avoid public events in Vegas, the 'Latina couple' at the concert warning attendees they would be killed shortly ... For those inclined, it's curious to observe that the massacre 'human sacrifice' took place directly under the Illuminati-symbolic huge Las Vegas Pyramid & Sphinx, as seen in this photo
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4dc2ee49e5b6a2b39b2af7fe42bf2e9d5096d87249538be36a17cad17883004.jpg

    Don’t forget McBain’s “Let’s Get Silly” where he unleashes gunfire and grenades on a crowd of hecklers. Talk about white privilege. How does he sleep at night?

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    How does [McBain] sleep at night?
     
    On top of a pile of money, with many beautiful ladies.
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  26. anon says: • Disclaimer

    That’s why I prefer the term rampage shooting. It gets to the heart of the matter.

    I don’t believe the statistic. Whites do their share of domestics and murder/suicide. But it is 2.5 per 100k and in a lot of the country is it 1.0. That is my county. Half domestic types or love gone bad. The rest commuters or the odd vibrant berg. In fact, eliminate the vibrant contingent and it is less than 1/100,000.

    I want to see the numbers. What about all the murders where the race of the perps isn’t known definitively?

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  27. Arclight says:

    A) I doubt it, since most murders are committed in urban centers where there are lots of people hit by strays and the shooters are overwhelmingly black, and B) still doubt it as “white” probably includes a decent slice of white Hispanics.

    The media is studiously ignoring this, since hatefacts like these would only stir up the alt-right neo-Nazi KKKers while also letting them off the hook.

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  28. Romanian says: • Website

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”

    Truly, these people live in the present and have no idea of the past.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Whites do experience unemployment in the present. They live on another planet, since what they say is untrue on this planet and has never been true.
    , @whorefinder
    What a dick.
    , @Nico
    I would like to know what Dr. Fox's reaction would be if the Northeastern University criminology department shut down and he experienced unemployment. By the way, is our good professor white or (((white)))? Just curious.
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  29. @Romanian

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Truly, these people live in the present and have no idea of the past.

    Whites do experience unemployment in the present. They live on another planet, since what they say is untrue on this planet and has never been true.

    Read More
    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    That's ridiculous, whites never have be unemployment, poor or oppressed. Their invisible privilege gives them infinite unicorn power.
    , @Desiderius
    Whites in the context he's using it would more accurately be "blanks" or "clears" - i.e. UMC types who've been deracinated.

    Of course he's not allowed to make that distinction because leaving it ambiguous is too valuable for the people paying his salary. This only gets better when that calculus changes.
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  30. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Deli co-owner apologizes after tweeting Vegas shooting was ‘community outreach’

    Karen Berkowitz, Contact Reporter
    Pioneer Press

    Just weeks after stoking controversy by using Nazi imagery on his Jewish deli’s Facebook page, the co-owner of Max’s Deli in Highland Park again has ignited outrage — this time with a tweet he fired off in response to the Las Vegas shootings.

    “Soon as I heard it was country music, I felt relief. White people shooting white people isn’t terror … it’s community outreach. #LasVegas,” the tweet read.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/highland-park/news/ct-hpn-las-vegas-shooting-tweet-deli-tl-1005-20171003-story.html

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  31. @Brabantian
    Certainly the 'older white guy with guns' image, has been a Hollywood stereotype staple of vilification for the last quarter century ... Who can forget Michael Douglas pulling out a gun to get his fast-food breakfast at WhammyBurger in 1993's 'Falling Down'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reugi90fjCo
    And maybe the most over-the-top of all 'crazy white guy with guns' films, 2012's truly odd 'God Bless America', where a teen girl joins the guy on a killing spree ending in a theatre massacre
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruArw21EGA
    With all the dodgy aspects of the 'official story' of this event, the reports of multiple shooters, video of what appear to be shots from other locations, the lack of any common-sense basis of why this wealthy white guy with cute female companionship would do this, the offer to hire 'crisis actors' in Las Vegas before the event, the warning on 4Chan before the concert to avoid public events in Vegas, the 'Latina couple' at the concert warning attendees they would be killed shortly ... For those inclined, it's curious to observe that the massacre 'human sacrifice' took place directly under the Illuminati-symbolic huge Las Vegas Pyramid & Sphinx, as seen in this photo
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4dc2ee49e5b6a2b39b2af7fe42bf2e9d5096d87249538be36a17cad17883004.jpg

    I’d say Falling Down was sympathetic to White men; to a subversive degree. Robert Duvall’s role as the long suffering cop must be kept in mind as well.

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  32. GeraldB says:

    The media have mentioned in passing that the Vegas shooter had a pilot’s license and owned two airplanes. I bet he would have killed more people by crashing one of his airplanes into the crowd.

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  33. People make up statistics to prove White men are the worst mass shooters because they’re most afraid of us. Everyone — including other White men — know we can to the most damage once we set our minds to it.

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  34. @Wilkey
    If white men have committed *only* 54% of the mass shootings since 1982 then in all likelihood they have committen less than 50% - perhaps much less than 50% - of those since Pulse. The vibrantizing of the Universal Peoplez has accelerated dramatically since 1982.

    If white men have committed *only* 54% of the mass shootings since 1982 then in all likelihood they have committen less than 50% – perhaps much less than 50% – of those since Pulse. The vibrantizing of the Universal Peoplez has accelerated dramatically since 1982.

    Except that hispanics and arabs generally get counted as white when they do bad things.

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  35. @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    “People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.” Speak for yourself pal.

    God, you have more liberal lie BS in that screed than a Brooks’ column.

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  36. whorefinder says: • Website

    The post-9/11 stoppage in mass guns is easier to explain:

    1. Media stops glorifying shootings, concentrates on glorifying bombings/suicide attacks, so the copycats stop getting ideas in their heads.

    2. Increased federal scrutiny on illegal arms dealing as both a supplier of terrorists and a money-making source for terrorists, ergo fewer gangbangers and nuts get illegal guns.

    3. The surge in patriotism causes a lot of potential shooters/lone wolfs to join the military. Gives them a life mission, as opposed to ending it all via a massive shootout/suicide by cop.

    4. Gangbangers who sell guns locally get a bit more patriotic and choosy when someone wants a gun, and also the patriot act starts making feds lean heavily on gangs.

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  37. @Clark Westwood

    Such as whites making up a sizable majority of males on average over the time period since 1982?
     
    Yes. At a minimum, the figures should be weighted according to number of people in each group.

    Rule 16 of activist journalism:
    Normalize statistics only when the result suits your agenda.

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    • Agree: Frau Katze
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  38. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Chicago has 10 White murder victims in 2017 (my count) and 14 White and Other (per Hey Jackass). Zero mass White killings by any definition.

    Mexicans/Hispanics seem to be doing more ‘mass’ shootings (4 victims).

    In 2016 there were 30-40 and none involving more than two and only a couple that weren’t single shooting victim.

    This has to be false or hopelessly misleading. Toss in Hispanics and MENA terrorists and maybe it goes up a bit.

    The clearance rate is going down so how do they count 4 black shooting victims and no perp in a 99% black neighborhood?

    If it is a crime gone bad, it isn’t a sense of entitlement.

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  39. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Romanian

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Truly, these people live in the present and have no idea of the past.

    What a dick.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    Who? Me?
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  40. Nico says:
    @Wilkey
    Mass shootings are unique in the sense that the perpetrator quite often doesn't expect to survive. It's a form of suicide, and whites have higher suicide rates, so it shouldn't be surprising that a violent crime that is similar to suicide is committed by whites in closer proportion to their share of the general population.

    They are also unique in that the perp isn't trying to get anything from the victim (money, sex) and a lot of times doesn't even know them. Black crime is more like a temper tantrum - a perp lashing out angrily for something he can't obtain, like wealth, sex, "respect," etc. Yet blacks still commit mass shootings disproportionate to their numbers, if in this case only slightly.

    So this author is using the fact that white men areally almost equally represented to their share of the population (since men commit most violent crimes in general) as a means to attack whites. When is he going to attack black men - ~7% of the population - for committing ~45% of this nation's murders? Never would be the best guess.

    Yet blacks still commit mass shootings disproportionate to their numbers, if in this case only slightly.

    This isn’t a surprise. Relative to the general population* blacks are over represented among murderers by a factor of about 7 but among serial killers by a factor of only two. The explanation is that mathematically, extreme statistical outliers tend to converge, so at the far end of the curve there begins to show some convergence. I suspect this phenomenon also accounts for at least some of the convergence in mass shooting representation as well.

    * Race and crime correlations are still defined in terms of “black and white.” Casual observations of the “WANTED” lineups suggest that if Hispanics were broken out the black/white differential would be even starker.

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  41. @Abram Andelman
    The key thing is we disarm to the goyim because #NeverAgain.

    The end goal of disarming the population is to eventually rearm a politically connected minority to control/enforce/enslave the now defenseless majority.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
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  42. Nico says:
    @Romanian

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Truly, these people live in the present and have no idea of the past.

    I would like to know what Dr. Fox’s reaction would be if the Northeastern University criminology department shut down and he experienced unemployment. By the way, is our good professor white or (((white)))? Just curious.

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  43. @reiner Tor
    Whites do experience unemployment in the present. They live on another planet, since what they say is untrue on this planet and has never been true.

    That’s ridiculous, whites never have be unemployment, poor or oppressed. Their invisible privilege gives them infinite unicorn power.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Youngstown, Ohio has been devastated economically for more than 40 years, that's two whole generations born without knowing prosperity.
    , @The Alarmist
    Wow, and all this time I thought it was the magic dirt.
    , @anon
    Exactly! That’s why Barry Sotero checked the white male box on his Harvard Law application (yes, they were on paper in those days) and hid the identity of his father.
    , @Anonymous
    Their invisible privilege that they keep in their invisible backpack.
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  44. I can’t tell what Mother Jones’ criteria is

    Criteria is the plural of criterion.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    19 International Jew > Criteria is the plural of criterion.


    but he ==was== referencing a more-than-one number of cirterionii.


    By the way shipmate, shouldn't you rather be brushing up on your Hebrew grammar?
    , @bored identity




    Criteria is the plural of criterion.

     

    Uuuuuh, bored identity precogs that Ming The Grammarciless has some serious axiom to grind with reprllent Iliterati Sailer....

    According to bored identity's Dictionary of Tribal Denialism, Every.Single.Time. is the hefty plural of your moniker.
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  45. Read More
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  46. To paraphrase the Mayor of London, mass shootings are a hazard of a free, diverse, and vibrant society.

    I’m not for gun control, I’m for criminal control, and the answer is to no longer count on police and the courts to control the criminals and instead to arm yourself to deal with any threats that present themselves. The only problem in that scenario becomes the natural tendency of the police and courts to attempt to put innocent citizens defending themselves out of business, ergo competition with them, by prosecuting them as vigilantes.

    An armed society is often a polite society.

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  47. Maj. Kong says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    That's ridiculous, whites never have be unemployment, poor or oppressed. Their invisible privilege gives them infinite unicorn power.

    Youngstown, Ohio has been devastated economically for more than 40 years, that’s two whole generations born without knowing prosperity.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Unicorns are extinct.
    , @anonguy

    Youngstown, Ohio has been devastated economically for more than 40 years, that’s two whole generations born without knowing prosperity.
     
    It mystifies me why anyone sticks around multi-generational rust belt dysfunction zones. At least Appalachian poverty has nice views, great outdoors, etc.
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  48. @reiner Tor
    Whites do experience unemployment in the present. They live on another planet, since what they say is untrue on this planet and has never been true.

    Whites in the context he’s using it would more accurately be “blanks” or “clears” – i.e. UMC types who’ve been deracinated.

    Of course he’s not allowed to make that distinction because leaving it ambiguous is too valuable for the people paying his salary. This only gets better when that calculus changes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whatmeworry
    There is a pretty clear cut way, with a lot of evidence behind it, to stop or at least reduce these suicidal mass shooters: do not reveal their name or any identifying info. This is very impractical and would require near universal societal agreement. But it would work.
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  49. @Clark Westwood

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can't take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”

    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can’t take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    Not mentioned there is that it’s been official government policy for decades to give these jobs, government contracts and below market interest loans to blacks and Mexicans, and it was largely the idea of Jews.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Is there anyone who does not receive a "blow to their psyche" on losing a high-paying job? Why is this Alan Fox person allowed to babble like this?
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  50. @Daniel Chieh
    That's ridiculous, whites never have be unemployment, poor or oppressed. Their invisible privilege gives them infinite unicorn power.

    Wow, and all this time I thought it was the magic dirt.

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  51. One “problem” is that Whites (and Asians) tend to have higher kills counts, since success in rampages, as with almost everything else in life, is g loaded.

    And say what you will about it but the media recognizes accomplishment.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    ISIS is trying to culturally appropriate his rampage.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I don't think the Orlando Pulse massacre had such a high kill count due to high intelligence. I think it was due to the cops not entering to stop it for hours.
    , @Olorin
    This may look like a throwaway comment on Anatoly's part, but it's not:

    success in rampages, as with almost everything else in life, is g loaded.
     
    IME with and around firearms and training people to use them, as well as talking to wingnuts who know nothing about the machines but have plenty to say about them, this is precisely what is underneath their desire to disarm white men...and increasingly white women.

    Being good/better at everything means also being good/better at war. Breeding the war out of men has been the fantasy of feminists my entire adult life. Anyone else remember this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Woman-Slept-Take-Them-Tree/dp/0915238438

    Vulva-as-Savior at its most self aware/honest.

    This is precisely why my ancestors framed the Bill of Rights as they did--to build into this republic the understanding that government is to be limited, not excellence/difference.

    This is why it's so gratifying to share with people who want to control white men with legalistic terrorism the photos of the armed rooftop Koreans protecting their shops in the LA riots in the '90s.

    Not because RKBA, but because the lefties can't so easily plug Asians into their "retarded redneck" discourse. So they have to admit that it's really only the first letter of "gun" that they're concerned about. Sometimes...rarely...that can form an opening to HBD-type issues.

    Remember also that outlier excellence in any endeavor is a direct affront to the Gospel of Diversity that asserts we're all the same. Only different. Except equal. Meaning fungible human cogs in an enormous hive overseen by a queen bee.

    Compare this:

    http://ltimmelduchamp.com/criticism/metzger.html

    Yes, (((Deena Metzger))) admitted she had ongoing childhood fantasies of being noticed by Hitler.

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  52. So what if white men do commit a majority of the “mass killings” (however defined) in the US. In Japan, Japanese men commit 100% of the mass killings. But when I go to Japan, I don’t worry about being murdered in a crowd. What matters are the murder rates. Plain old “killings”.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    So what if white men do commit a majority of the “mass killings” (however defined) in the US. In Japan, Japanese men commit 100% of the mass killings.
     
    I get your point, but you are not quite accurate. Blacks in Japan are miniscule in population, but punch WAY above their population size in all manners of crime, including murder and rape.
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  53. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Banning the use and sale of narcotics for non-medical purposes has worked. Banning illegal entry into these United States has worked. So I’m all for banning firearms!

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    • LOL: Coemgen
    • Replies: @pepperinmono
    Lot of young people want drugs legalized and gun control.
    Drugs are illegal and ubiquitous .
    What makes these idiots think more gun laws would work?
    Murder is already illegal.
    Isn't this mega obvious?
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  54. Maj. Kong says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Widespread gun ownership acts as a deterrent on the politicians, a historical practice not usually seen in most countries. While it is inflammatory to say it, the right-wing is willing to accept the deaths as the price to retain its veto power.

    The Canadian Parliament was nearly wiped out by a single terrorist.

    Europe has near-total bans in some nations, and nations where the laws are similar to American blue states. The deranged are easier to deter in a police state with socialist health care, whereas terrorists are not.

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  55. Randal says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Neither argument sounded particularly convincing.

    Perhaps not to someone who has a visceral fear of guns like yourself, probably, to judge from your “people are too screwed up to be trusted with them” comment. But for the hard headed grownups amongst us, the latter point is objectively correct (see numerous reports from the US debate over the past few decades), and the former is logically incontrovertible.

    Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings

    At the cost of infantilising the population and rendering them helpless in the face of criminals with guns, or just bigger and stronger criminals.

    And the reality is that the cost of mass shootings is trivial in national terms – depending upon the definition they account for a few tens to a few hundreds of deaths per year in the US. There were 15,000 homicides in the US in 2015. The inevitable panicky insistence on banning guns in response to the latest incident is sentimental hysteria or cynical opportunism.

    In truth, taking out the US’s particular problem with murderous violence in its black ghettos, its overall rate of deaths from guns would easily be a price more than worth paying for the benefits of having guns available to ordinary people to protect their homes and families, even if it were all attributable to its gun liberty.

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    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    WeWe also have violent black and minority urban underclasses in the UK. The lack of freely available guns means they need to stick to knives and blunt instruments to perpetuate gang warfare.

    The result is that the UK, with a population of 66 million has about 500 to 600 homicides per year. Of those, about 6 to 10% are carried out by guns. Chicago by contrast had over 700 homicides in 2016, a city with a population of less than 3m. London with a population close to 9 million and a similar proportion of whites to Chicago usually has between 150 to 200 annually.

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  56. @Anatoly Karlin
    One "problem" is that Whites (and Asians) tend to have higher kills counts, since success in rampages, as with almost everything else in life, is g loaded.

    And say what you will about it but the media recognizes accomplishment.

    ISIS is trying to culturally appropriate his rampage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The longer law enforcement waits to divulge all the evidence from the hotel suite, including video the shooter allegedly took, the more I wonder if there was an ISIS connection. Withholding evidence could be a tactic to try to get ISIS to divulge more.
    https://twitter.com/polNewsInfinity/status/915307812347105280
    , @Truth
    There is no such thing as ISIS, all theatre.
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  57. Karl says:
    @Brabantian
    Certainly the 'older white guy with guns' image, has been a Hollywood stereotype staple of vilification for the last quarter century ... Who can forget Michael Douglas pulling out a gun to get his fast-food breakfast at WhammyBurger in 1993's 'Falling Down'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reugi90fjCo
    And maybe the most over-the-top of all 'crazy white guy with guns' films, 2012's truly odd 'God Bless America', where a teen girl joins the guy on a killing spree ending in a theatre massacre
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruArw21EGA
    With all the dodgy aspects of the 'official story' of this event, the reports of multiple shooters, video of what appear to be shots from other locations, the lack of any common-sense basis of why this wealthy white guy with cute female companionship would do this, the offer to hire 'crisis actors' in Las Vegas before the event, the warning on 4Chan before the concert to avoid public events in Vegas, the 'Latina couple' at the concert warning attendees they would be killed shortly ... For those inclined, it's curious to observe that the massacre 'human sacrifice' took place directly under the Illuminati-symbolic huge Las Vegas Pyramid & Sphinx, as seen in this photo
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4dc2ee49e5b6a2b39b2af7fe42bf2e9d5096d87249538be36a17cad17883004.jpg

    9 Brabantian > with cute female companionship

    Can I have some of that drug they’ve been feeding you? I want to feed it to my enemies.

    You know, the one which makes you think that a 62-year-old divorcee with a cock-carousel-riding track record, is “cute”.

    With a little effort, the guy could have had one that was 30 years younger.

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  58. dearieme says:

    Oi, iSteve, ‘criteria’ is plural.

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  59. dearieme says:

    ” Interestingly, they stop after 9/11 for almost two years, but then sped up again. Why was that?”

    Dunno, but I’m pretty sure that I’ve read that suicide rates fell in Britain during The War.

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  60. Yes, good jobs for white people are disappearing. And why aren’t people able to get work in their own country? Why is a foreign language a requirement for work at some labor jobs? The author doesn’t say what a good job is. In the past truck drivers, bus drivers, and even janitors were decent work and could support a family just like landscaping, police, public works, carpenters, and other labor positions and white men filled those positions. Not everyone in a village will be a rocket scientist and it it is safe to assume that most people know this, so these other positions are jobs that people could do when they know that an advanced degree in physics isn’t on their current radar. But more and more these positions are filled by other people and the wages are stagnant due to, just guessing, the high demand for work, like 600 applications for a McDonalds job.
    We have to work and buy things in this country or we’re looked at as less than the illegal crossing the border and we have to manage it without complaint.

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  61. Karl says:
    @International Jew

    I can’t tell what Mother Jones’ criteria is
     
    Criteria is the plural of criterion.

    19 International Jew > Criteria is the plural of criterion.

    but he ==was== referencing a more-than-one number of cirterionii.

    By the way shipmate, shouldn’t you rather be brushing up on your Hebrew grammar?

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    He said "criteria is".

    הדקדוק העברי שלי הוא בסדר גמור, יא חתיכת חרא.

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  62. Sad state of affairs when the MSM looks for ways to delineate homicides based on race. In the last three years Chicago has had about 1900 homicides, mostly, actually, almost all, black on black crimes. The number of wounded is probably five times the number of homicides. Think about those numbers, those are WWII battle field numbers. In Cleveland, a black woman had the temerity to honk her horn at a car that was blocking the street, on 25th Street, IIRC. Finally, she managed to make her way around the car. According to police, the car proceeded to follow her onto the I-90 East toward a 90 degree turn called Dead Man’s Curve. As she slowed to maneuver through the curve, the car pulled alongside and blasted her van with multiple shots. Her son was shot in the head! Think about that! She “disrespected” some black POS and he shot up her van. Cleveland, two years ago, had a five year old boy, a three year old boy and a five month old girl, all shot and killed. The perps were all black, I am not defending any murder, but enough with the world’s greatest problem is white men.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Sad state of affairs when the MSM looks for ways to delineate homicides based on race.
     
    Not really. They may be opening a door they really want to keep closed.
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  63. Travis says:
    @Wilkey
    If white men have committed *only* 54% of the mass shootings since 1982 then in all likelihood they have committen less than 50% - perhaps much less than 50% - of those since Pulse. The vibrantizing of the Universal Peoplez has accelerated dramatically since 1982.

    I suspect you are correct.
    80% of the adult population was white in 1985.
    today less than 70% are non-hispanic White, even lower among adults under 40.

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  64. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel Chieh
    That's ridiculous, whites never have be unemployment, poor or oppressed. Their invisible privilege gives them infinite unicorn power.

    Exactly! That’s why Barry Sotero checked the white male box on his Harvard Law application (yes, they were on paper in those days) and hid the identity of his father.

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  65. @Desiderius
    Whites in the context he's using it would more accurately be "blanks" or "clears" - i.e. UMC types who've been deracinated.

    Of course he's not allowed to make that distinction because leaving it ambiguous is too valuable for the people paying his salary. This only gets better when that calculus changes.

    There is a pretty clear cut way, with a lot of evidence behind it, to stop or at least reduce these suicidal mass shooters: do not reveal their name or any identifying info. This is very impractical and would require near universal societal agreement. But it would work.

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    Right. Gavin de Becker recommends anonymity and ridicule for mass murderers and serial killers in his book, The Gift of Fear. Very sensible. Instead the MSM adds to theIr importancE by using their full names and emphasizing how terrifying and horrific their crimes are.
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  66. I guess the take away is: people of color should relocate away from white people. Whites are very scary indeed. I’m ok with that.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And yet they flock toward us, worldwide.
    Like moths to a flame, God willing..
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  67. Coemgen says:
    @Guy de Champlagne
    I support stronger gun control, but the fact is democrats wouldn't get anywhere even if without republican opposition because, as this silly article demonstrates, they're too consumed with their crackpot racial politics. You can't simultaneously crack down on gun crime and carry out black lives matter mandated de policing.

    Why skip past the 1st Amendment to infringe on the 2nd?

    Let’s first stop interpreting the 1st in a broad “liberal” manner.

    Let “freedom of the press” be exactly what it states. That is, it only applies to the output of a printing press.

    Let “freedom of speech” be exactly what it states. That is, it only applies to the the sounds from one’s mouth to another’s ear.

    Electronic transmission of speach or printing would not be free in this case.

    The violent training programs (video games, movies, etc.) would no longer be freely available to teach the “Stephen Paddocks of the world” how to kill.

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    • Replies: @Romanian
    So I can say whatever I want in a padded room, as in Communist times, when dissidents were pathologized? Speech without transmission is meaningless in a mass society.
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  68. bomag says:
    @Clark Westwood

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can't take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012.

    Sounds like something made up to fit the narrative. I see the opposite: non-whites lecturing constantly about how everything belongs to them and white men have to go away; white men passively accepting this and going quietly into the dark night.

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  69. The Z Blog says: • Website

    As is always the case, figures don’t lie, but liars figure. Without some standards for data collection and some agreed upon definition, there is not way to answer the question. You can be sure that Mother Jones is not counting as a mass shooting the many times a year Taquan shoots up a party because someone dissed him. That’s in part due to bias, but also due to the fact that most times the cops never find out who did the shooting. Baltimore has a 50% closure rate for murder. It’s a tenth of that for shootings.

    All that said, what we should expect if the blank slate crowd is correct is something close to demographics. if it’s not, and the honky is the more likely to go shoot ‘em up, then it is just another data point indicating biological racial differences.

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  70. @International Jew

    I can’t tell what Mother Jones’ criteria is
     
    Criteria is the plural of criterion.

    Criteria is the plural of criterion.

    Uuuuuh, bored identity precogs that Ming The Grammarciless has some serious axiom to grind with reprllent Iliterati Sailer….

    According to bored identity’s Dictionary of Tribal Denialism, Every.Single.Time. is the hefty plural of your moniker.

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    Your so mean.
    , @Chrisnonymous

    Uuuuuh, bored identity precogs ...
     
    Oh no. Yan Shen's writing style is, uh, contagious!!
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  71. Rod1963 says:
    @Sean

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined
     
    Such people in Nevada can apparently get automatic rifles or rifles that can be converted into a belt or massive magazine machine gun.

    No it’s more than that.

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex

    Seriously, this guy wasn’t your typical gun nut who spent a lot of time at the range and prepper sites with a massive library of military tactic manuals. He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know.

    Plus the motivation angle: None of the traditional motives make any sense.

    His attacking the country music crowd instead of the casinos.This was a political attack There was nothing stopping him from leasing a two engine prop job, loading it to the gills with ANFO or even jet fuel and flying it into the casino.

    He didn’t

    Instead he targeted a mostly white, and traditionally American music festival, he was making a deliberate political statement to you know who.

    There is something law enforcement isn’t telling us because it’s politically very explosive. I mean the police are going out of their way to throw up a wall of bullshit. The only times they say they can’t find the motive for a mass killing is when it involves Muslims.

    ISIS would claim the attack as one of their

    Consider that.
    .

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex.

     

    People who are in a profession tend to overestimate how hard it is for a dedicated amateur to do their job. The guy was very effective but what he did was not rocket science. A pro would not have told him to have a dozen guns and thousands more rounds of ammo than he really used. The guy was over-prepared in the way a dedicated amateur would overprepare.
    , @Anonymous
    Apparently he liked country music and went to country music concerts:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-liked-to-gamble-listened-to-country-music-lived-quiet-retired-life-before-massacre

    In the final years of his life, Stephen Paddock was living out his retirement in quiet obscurity. He liked country music, relatives said, and went to concerts like the Route 91 Harvest festival where he killed so many Sunday night.
     
    , @Anon
    "He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know."

    Any investigation of outstanding gambling debts? Agrees or blackmailed into being the fall guy for an ISIS operation? Didnt' the 9/11ers hang out in casinos or just strip clubs?
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  72. If Only Stephen Paddock Were a Muslim
    Thomas L. Friedman OCT. 3, 2017

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/opinion/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-terrorism.html

    People like Thomas Friedman should have their own country to play with and leave you poor Americans alone to sort things out on your own. He needs to just get out of the kitchen while other people are trying to cook. He needs to get off the bridge while the crew tries to save the ship.

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  73. Olorin says:

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined.

    That assumes that gun control proponents have as their actual motive wanting to “stop somebody determined.”

    They don’t. Their anti-gun goregasms are a dionysiac virtue-signalling ritual/drama. It’s not an actual policy analysis exercise. Gun control has proven ineffective in keeping determined killers from killing. What keeps determined killers from killing? Probably nothing, but in the case of, say, Chicago there’s probably some stuff that could keep blacks from slaughtering blacks.

    But liberals/lefties don’t care about that, do they?

    Sidebar:

    I noted how Hillary sounded kinda disappointed that Vegas Man didn’t have a “silencer,” coz then “imagine how many more deaths.”

    Thought that bit of fantasy on her part was more than a little telling. You can have the worst mass killing in the history of ever, and there will always be someone imagining a worse one.

    And that, ladles and genderspoons, is why we have mass murderers. Hillary has a long history of using various mechanisms and agencies to kill, so her quickly weighing in on this one struck me as absolutely obscene.

    That’s the other thing about “gun control.” Its most vehement proponents have no idea how erotically charged they get from projecting their own thanatophilia onto others. For them, “gun control” is just an excuse to keep imagining, fantasizing, and talking about gore.

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  74. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    /pol/ says no.

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  75. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Just two Sundays ago, a 25-year-old black Sudanese immigrant opened fire on members of a church in Nashville, killing a 38-year-old mother and injuring six others. He had written a note that mentioned Dylann Roof.

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  76. guest says:

    Statistics is one thing, and everyone knows you can jury-rig those. But the, I don’t know what to call it, Cultural Perception is that white people commit all the mass shootings because of what you might call the Ted Bundy Criterion. People think only whites are serial killers despite all the many vibrant serial killers because “serial killer” in the popular imagination means clean-cut white male who has a weird sexual thing and kills many people over the course of years while neighbors don’t notice, thinking they’re polite fellas who keep to themselves.

    Similarly, mass shooters are thought to be white because the most famous ones are ambitious suicide cases who want to efficiently take out as many people as possible. And that’s white/Asian (I haven’t forgotten you, Virginia Tech) M.O. We don’t “beef” over corners or shoot into crowds because D’Shitavious stole Shaqueefa from us.

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  77. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin
    One "problem" is that Whites (and Asians) tend to have higher kills counts, since success in rampages, as with almost everything else in life, is g loaded.

    And say what you will about it but the media recognizes accomplishment.

    I don’t think the Orlando Pulse massacre had such a high kill count due to high intelligence. I think it was due to the cops not entering to stop it for hours.

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours.

    I was stunned to learn that in Las Vegas it took them over an hour:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/card/it-took-police-72-minutes-first-911-call-breach-paddock-n806836
    , @Travis
    did the shooting actually continue for the full 70 minutes (from the first shot until the cops breached his room)...if so I would expect a higher number of victims...
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  78. The irony is that by percentages white men probably make up a low number of shooters and this rate probably reflects white men’s increased propensity to eat shit, which also allows Newsweek to get away with its BS claims.

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  79. I’ve always thought that there are certain crimes which are mental illness driven and therefore no racial or ethnic groups are overrepresented – this includes mass shootings, child molestation (and most sex crimes except for adult rape), kidnapping of children, and perhaps others.

    Unfortunately, the discussion about gun control is warped by how people feel about guns.

    I think there should be a two-part analysis. First, are there things can be done re gun control that would reduce these mass shootings? Second. if the answer is yes, are we, as a society, willing to do whatever that is?

    These are two distinct questions. Presumably we could do what they did in Australia and that would work – but, even without the 2nd Amendment, I doubt that a majority of Americans would want to do that. Perhaps there is something we could do that is effective short of what they do in Australia. I have no idea if there is, and certainly the public debate is never framed in terms of effectiveness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Even if ALL guns in private hands had to be stored in a locked safe at the gun club, what happens when criminals commit home invasion robberies where the occupants are defenseless. Who at the gun club is going to confront somebody who tries to sneak his guns out of the club?

    There are no easy questions, let alone answers.
    , @Romanian
    Isn't the distribution of mental disease also a subject of race differences, just as it is for sex differences? For instance, the distribution of psychopaths.
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  80. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh
    ISIS is trying to culturally appropriate his rampage.

    The longer law enforcement waits to divulge all the evidence from the hotel suite, including video the shooter allegedly took, the more I wonder if there was an ISIS connection. Withholding evidence could be a tactic to try to get ISIS to divulge more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=069_1507068011 More hotel room photos plus grisly photo of the end result of the Las Vegas psycho killer's suicide.
    , @Travis
    could be...Remember when Omar Mateen shot 50+ people in Orlando...The FBI was still searching for a motive weeks later despite his Facebook posts stating “I pledge my alliance to (ISIS leader) abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me,” Mateen wrote. “The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west” …“You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance.”

    When the negotiator asked him to identify himself, Mateen answered, “Call me Mujahideen. Call me the solider of God.”....”You have to tell the U.S. government to stop bombing Syria" Omar told the police.."stop bombing my people"..Mateen makes this demand more than once in multiple calls.

    Weeks later, Attorney General Loretta Lynch refused to describe his attack as Islamic terrorism. Mateen’s "act of terror" was rooted in “hatred and intolerance,” said Lynch. "We still don't know his why , So we will look at all motivations and hope to come to a conclusion"

    Comey confirmed that the 911 call itself "painted a bizarre picture of where Mateen's loyalties lay"..."There is no indication he was part of a plot from outside the US, and no indication of what group he supported,".."There is confusion about his motives," Comey said in September 2016 , 3 months after Mateen killed 49 and stated over and over his motivations for killing Americans.

    If The FBI remains confused and unsure of what Motivated Omar Mateen how do we expect them to understand the motives of a man who never posted his motives on Facebook...Even if Paddock had claimed allegiance to ISIS and told police he was an Islamic Soldier the FBI would remain confused as to his true motives...
    , @Percy Gryce
    https://twitter.com/percy_gryce/status/915423114481324032
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  81. J.Ross says: • Website

    We need go talk about the deliberate “activation” of suggestible people through dishonest and panicked rhetoric, ie the “Rwanda Radio” phenonenon. Every mainstream media outlet and personality has been openly pushing violence against Trump and Trump supporters. Black Lives Matter has been pushing this idea that police are heartless killing machines who hunt innocent black children for sport. This has resulted in uncomplicated inarguable assassinations. The slogan of the extreme left since before the election has been “Punch a Nazi,” where “Nazi” is defined as a Trump supporter or probable Trump supporter.
    When I was a leftist I watched Rachel Maddow every weeknight. Know what was her favorite thing to talk about in the world at that time? It was the idea that if you talk about abortion being straightforward murder, it’s only a matter of time before some suggestible wierdo out there feels the need to do something about it.
    We are familiar, here at extreme free speech sites of the dark web, where all the hackers and cyberbullies hang out and cut off their daughters’ legs (boomers: this is a musical reference), with both the criticism of a certain war-starting religio-ethnic group and also the argument that this criticism should be restrained, against the danger that some suggestible wierdo will act on it. Setting aside free speech issues and the military value of forcing children to watch hardcore pornography, the basic argument for caution is axiomatic. Panicked violence helps no one.
    One more example of the Rwanda radio phenomenon. Suggestible is not a synonym for stupid. Aldous Huxley in Brave New World Revisited remarks on a coincidence found in both private and government research, suggesting that the population breaks neatly into quintiles for suggestibility. At least twenty per cent of us, regardless of intelligence or other factors, are easily persuaded.
    Oh and watch for street blockages and outbursts of urban violence on November Fourth. Antifa is planning something big for that day.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    What is the significance of November 4th?
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  82. Olorin says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    One "problem" is that Whites (and Asians) tend to have higher kills counts, since success in rampages, as with almost everything else in life, is g loaded.

    And say what you will about it but the media recognizes accomplishment.

    This may look like a throwaway comment on Anatoly’s part, but it’s not:

    success in rampages, as with almost everything else in life, is g loaded.

    IME with and around firearms and training people to use them, as well as talking to wingnuts who know nothing about the machines but have plenty to say about them, this is precisely what is underneath their desire to disarm white men…and increasingly white women.

    Being good/better at everything means also being good/better at war. Breeding the war out of men has been the fantasy of feminists my entire adult life. Anyone else remember this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Woman-Slept-Take-Them-Tree/dp/0915238438

    Vulva-as-Savior at its most self aware/honest.

    This is precisely why my ancestors framed the Bill of Rights as they did–to build into this republic the understanding that government is to be limited, not excellence/difference.

    This is why it’s so gratifying to share with people who want to control white men with legalistic terrorism the photos of the armed rooftop Koreans protecting their shops in the LA riots in the ’90s.

    Not because RKBA, but because the lefties can’t so easily plug Asians into their “retarded redneck” discourse. So they have to admit that it’s really only the first letter of “gun” that they’re concerned about. Sometimes…rarely…that can form an opening to HBD-type issues.

    Remember also that outlier excellence in any endeavor is a direct affront to the Gospel of Diversity that asserts we’re all the same. Only different. Except equal. Meaning fungible human cogs in an enormous hive overseen by a queen bee.

    Compare this:

    http://ltimmelduchamp.com/criticism/metzger.html

    Yes, (((Deena Metzger))) admitted she had ongoing childhood fantasies of being noticed by Hitler.

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  83. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Ha. Yea …. well the authoritative source is Mother Jones.

    The definition was 4 and then reduced to 3 deaths.

    ‘Public Place’ …. is frequently workplace. Excludes a lot of black murderers. Although isn’t a drug corner a workplace.

    But OK. Whites go postal now and then.

    Total over 25 years is 700. 28 per year. I know one death is a tragedy, etc. Without Vegas, it would have been 26 per year.

    Overall I am underwhelmed. Exclude the circumstances when blacks commit homicide and they aren’t going to be overrepresented. Even though their overall homicide rate is 8 times the rate for whites.

    They found a bad outcome that isn’t racially dominated by Blacks. OK. So what.

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  84. Truth says:

    Hey guys, your president is doing exactly what he said he would, he’s bringing the races together:

    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/10/heartless_felons_douse_men_wit.html

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  85. @Dave Pinsen
    I don't think the Orlando Pulse massacre had such a high kill count due to high intelligence. I think it was due to the cops not entering to stop it for hours.

    As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours.

    I was stunned to learn that in Las Vegas it took them over an hour:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/card/it-took-police-72-minutes-first-911-call-breach-paddock-n806836

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    • Replies: @AM
    "As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours."

    Why wouldn't it take them an hour? The call has to come in - that's zero - but it's not really zero. He would have been shooting for at least 2-3 minutes, but likely closer 5-10.

    Then you get the dispatcher at 911 who can't just send 2 nearby patrol cops out to deal with it. They need to round up a lot of people and they need to get there with enough weapons and body armor.

    And it was dark, so it wasn't obvious which floor the shots were coming from, so they started on the wrong floor, 29 to be exact when they needed to be on 32. Then they had bust in the door.

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don't see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don't know.

    , @Clyde

    I was stunned to learn that in Las Vegas it took police over an hour:
     
    Paddock unloaded for ten minutes and that was it. So I have read. So police slowed down their response to gather forces, you know, the boys with the flash bang grenades.
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  86. Truth says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    ISIS is trying to culturally appropriate his rampage.

    There is no such thing as ISIS, all theatre.

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  87. Sajmon says:

    I’ll leave it here – mass shootings by race:

    https://imgur.com/7mepY4M

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  88. @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with [guns].

    Oh sure, so let’s just trust our authorities to have them. That’s just great. It’s the mentality of “our superiors know better.”

    There is a reason for the Second Amendment. It still holds.

    We’ll give up our arms when those who are supposed to derive their power from us give up theirs. No, that’s not right, because we want them armed, to do their jobs.

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.

    Yes, let’s take away Man’s freedom to make fire. After all, he’s too crazy to be trusted with it.

    No wonder most people on Earth have never been free. They’re easy to control.

    There’s an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people’s luggage when they check into hotels now. He says we need to live like the Israelis. Nonsense. We’re already being poked, prodded, scanned and intruded upon too much. There comes a point when you have to tell your parents to leave you alone and let you live in the real world with all its risks.

    Liberty or death. So be it.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Agree completely. Molon Labe.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.
    , @International Jew

    There’s an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people’s luggage when they check into hotels now.
     
    I've been to a lot of hotels in Israel, and they've never asked to look in my bags. They will, however, want to see what's in the trunk of your car if you want to drive into an underground parking lot.

    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.
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  89. AM says:
    @International Jew
    As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours.

    I was stunned to learn that in Las Vegas it took them over an hour:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/card/it-took-police-72-minutes-first-911-call-breach-paddock-n806836

    “As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours.”

    Why wouldn’t it take them an hour? The call has to come in – that’s zero – but it’s not really zero. He would have been shooting for at least 2-3 minutes, but likely closer 5-10.

    Then you get the dispatcher at 911 who can’t just send 2 nearby patrol cops out to deal with it. They need to round up a lot of people and they need to get there with enough weapons and body armor.

    And it was dark, so it wasn’t obvious which floor the shots were coming from, so they started on the wrong floor, 29 to be exact when they needed to be on 32. Then they had bust in the door.

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don’t see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don’t know.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don’t see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don’t know.
     
    It seems like a long delay when you start with all of the information and work backwards.

    But in the moment there are dozens of "unknown unknowns" in the parlance of Secretary Rumsfeld.

    It probably takes a good 5-10 minutes alone to sort out that people reporting to 911 that other people are being shot at the outside venue were actually being shot from the Mandalay Bay building a few hundred yards away.
    , @guest
    They identified the room and a security guard was shot within 15 minutes.

    8 cops were waiting outside the door within 20 minutes.

    They then waited about 50 minutes to catch the bad guy already dead in the nick of time.

    I don't know why SWAT wasn't ready faster. I'd think those guys would be on standby in Vegas, with all the money. One is wonders what the point of them is if they can't get to an "active shooter" that's already been located within an hour.

    On the other hand, if you want to swarm a peaceful suburban neighborhood with armored personnel carriers, black helicopters, and a squad of ninjas with puppy-killing rifles and flash-bang grenades, cops are your men.

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  90. Males make up the vast majority of mass killers.

    Males make up the vast majority of Unz.com writers and commenters.

    Correlation doesn’t mean causation, but still…

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Males make up the vast majority of Wiki editors and Guardian commenters, too. Not to mention people who tinker with electronics, write code, or put flared wheel arches on cars.

    I've seen reports that the perp had attended anti-Trump demos. Any truth in that?

    BBC news (for what that's worth) reported this morning that he'd bought his weapons "over a period of months". What suddenly triggered that? Was it post-inauguration?
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  91. dr kill says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    White men have a lot of self-control, but they are also good at killing. If they had the self-control of blacks, every non-white person on Earth would be dead by now.

    This is what’s in store for Europe when the Normals finally have had enough.

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  92. White males may make up only their proportion of mass killers but I’ll bet they make up a way higher percentage of old mass killers.

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.
     
    Are we going to read that Paddock was on Prozac or similar or other legal psych drugs? Some blamed Del Shannon's suicide on Prozac.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.
     
    The testosterone has had longer to work on his brain. It is noticeable that it is much rarer--in fact I have never heard of it, but perhaps it happens--for women to fetishize and collect firearms, so this must be considered to be a testosterone-related trait, and it might become more exaggerated as a compensatory mechanism as a man becomes older and less sexually potent.
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  93. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Alec Leamas


    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can’t take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.
     
    Not mentioned there is that it's been official government policy for decades to give these jobs, government contracts and below market interest loans to blacks and Mexicans, and it was largely the idea of Jews.

    Is there anyone who does not receive a “blow to their psyche” on losing a high-paying job? Why is this Alan Fox person allowed to babble like this?

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    Is there anyone who does not receive a “blow to their psyche” on losing a high-paying job? Why is this Alan Fox person allowed to babble like this?
     
    Let's hope Perfesser Fox gets some first-hand experience.
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  94. @Buzz Mohawk

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with [guns].
     
    Oh sure, so let's just trust our authorities to have them. That's just great. It's the mentality of "our superiors know better."

    There is a reason for the Second Amendment. It still holds.

    We'll give up our arms when those who are supposed to derive their power from us give up theirs. No, that's not right, because we want them armed, to do their jobs.

    This same gun topic goes 'round and 'round every time. Let's outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.

    Yes, let's take away Man's freedom to make fire. After all, he's too crazy to be trusted with it.

    No wonder most people on Earth have never been free. They're easy to control.

    There's an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people's luggage when they check into hotels now. He says we need to live like the Israelis. Nonsense. We're already being poked, prodded, scanned and intruded upon too much. There comes a point when you have to tell your parents to leave you alone and let you live in the real world with all its risks.

    Liberty or death. So be it.

    Agree completely. Molon Labe.

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  95. NickG says:

    levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.

    Not especially in a nation of 330 million, given the attendant ‘tail risks’ with the backdrop of advertising for it to attention whores, it’s amazing thing is that it doesn’t happen more.

    This geezer had a PPL – he could have just as easily flown a light aircraft into that crowd and would have likely done for more.

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  96. anon says: • Disclaimer

    This seems an appropriate time to bring up this graph that puts all of NYT’s “quantitative” analysis into perspective:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/02/us/california-mass-shooting-san-bernardino.html?_r=0

    Despite being 1% (?) of the population, the Muslims are certainly “punching up” as the au courant might say…

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  97. Clyde says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    The longer law enforcement waits to divulge all the evidence from the hotel suite, including video the shooter allegedly took, the more I wonder if there was an ISIS connection. Withholding evidence could be a tactic to try to get ISIS to divulge more.
    https://twitter.com/polNewsInfinity/status/915307812347105280

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=069_1507068011 More hotel room photos plus grisly photo of the end result of the Las Vegas psycho killer’s suicide.

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  98. Clyde says:
    @International Jew
    As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours.

    I was stunned to learn that in Las Vegas it took them over an hour:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/card/it-took-police-72-minutes-first-911-call-breach-paddock-n806836

    I was stunned to learn that in Las Vegas it took police over an hour:

    Paddock unloaded for ten minutes and that was it. So I have read. So police slowed down their response to gather forces, you know, the boys with the flash bang grenades.

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  99. Clyde says:
    @anony-mouse
    White males may make up only their proportion of mass killers but I'll bet they make up a way higher percentage of old mass killers.

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.

    Are we going to read that Paddock was on Prozac or similar or other legal psych drugs? Some blamed Del Shannon’s suicide on Prozac.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect ("an increase in suicidal thoughts" or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn't have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn't work all the time, or some patients don't follow the protocol.
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  100. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Mother Jones ‘open source mass killing dataset’.

    Our research has focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventional crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence.

    The interactive map below and our downloadable database have been expanded with 29 additional cases from 2013-2017. Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed.

    (It is important to note that there have been many similar indiscriminate gun rampages—resulting in fewer fatalities—that would otherwise be included in our dataset.) In January 2013, a mandate for federal investigation of mass shootings authorized by President Barack Obama lowered that baseline to three or more victims. Accordingly, we include attacks dating from January 2013 in which three or more victims died. Our original analysis, which covers cases with four or more victims killed from 1982-2012, follows below.

    In other words, this is not the anti-gun database. Rather it is the White rampage and mini rampage database. A bona fide rampage needs more than 3 deaths.

    Overall …. it is a sloppy dataset. It is arbitrary and incomplete. It skews toward ‘going postal’ with a lot of workplace shootings.

    It is a Newsweek writer trying to make inferences from a casual list. Workplace killings with 3-5 deaths happen now and then. There aren’t that many black victims. That’s unusual, I suppose. Maybe that’s why it matters.

    The New York Times is a anti-gun database. Need more killings, so they need to use all the black ‘mass killings’.

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  101. Elli says:

    Black men have responded to the insult of losing their jobs with mass or spree killings. Dorner, former LA cop, and Thornton, ex-employee of Hartford Distributors, come to mind. Livelihood or property disputes also, a different Thornton killed six members of the Kirkwood MS city council.

    It isn’t a white thing.

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  102. Clyde says:

    One job Stephen Paddock had for a while was letter carrier. This makes him the biggest incident of “Going Postal”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal

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  103. jackson says:

    Mother Jones counts Moroccan, Lebanese, hapa and Turkish shooters as “white.”

    And when you break out Arab/MENA shooters into a separate category they absolutely blow all other groups away on per capita basis.

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  104. Travis says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    The longer law enforcement waits to divulge all the evidence from the hotel suite, including video the shooter allegedly took, the more I wonder if there was an ISIS connection. Withholding evidence could be a tactic to try to get ISIS to divulge more.
    https://twitter.com/polNewsInfinity/status/915307812347105280

    could be…Remember when Omar Mateen shot 50+ people in Orlando…The FBI was still searching for a motive weeks later despite his Facebook posts stating “I pledge my alliance to (ISIS leader) abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me,” Mateen wrote. “The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west” …“You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance.”

    When the negotiator asked him to identify himself, Mateen answered, “Call me Mujahideen. Call me the solider of God.”….”You have to tell the U.S. government to stop bombing Syria” Omar told the police..”stop bombing my people”..Mateen makes this demand more than once in multiple calls.

    Weeks later, Attorney General Loretta Lynch refused to describe his attack as Islamic terrorism. Mateen’s “act of terror” was rooted in “hatred and intolerance,” said Lynch. “We still don’t know his why , So we will look at all motivations and hope to come to a conclusion”

    Comey confirmed that the 911 call itself “painted a bizarre picture of where Mateen’s loyalties lay”…”There is no indication he was part of a plot from outside the US, and no indication of what group he supported,”..”There is confusion about his motives,” Comey said in September 2016 , 3 months after Mateen killed 49 and stated over and over his motivations for killing Americans.

    If The FBI remains confused and unsure of what Motivated Omar Mateen how do we expect them to understand the motives of a man who never posted his motives on Facebook…Even if Paddock had claimed allegiance to ISIS and told police he was an Islamic Soldier the FBI would remain confused as to his true motives…

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  105. @Buzz Mohawk

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with [guns].
     
    Oh sure, so let's just trust our authorities to have them. That's just great. It's the mentality of "our superiors know better."

    There is a reason for the Second Amendment. It still holds.

    We'll give up our arms when those who are supposed to derive their power from us give up theirs. No, that's not right, because we want them armed, to do their jobs.

    This same gun topic goes 'round and 'round every time. Let's outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.

    Yes, let's take away Man's freedom to make fire. After all, he's too crazy to be trusted with it.

    No wonder most people on Earth have never been free. They're easy to control.

    There's an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people's luggage when they check into hotels now. He says we need to live like the Israelis. Nonsense. We're already being poked, prodded, scanned and intruded upon too much. There comes a point when you have to tell your parents to leave you alone and let you live in the real world with all its risks.

    Liberty or death. So be it.

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.

    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men–it is always men–have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

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    • Replies: @Guy de Champlagne
    carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally,

    That is a really good idea although the insurance should also cover people that are injured (or killed) intentionally. I think it could win over some conservatives because it emphasizes personal responsibility and uses decentralized market mechanisms to regulate who buys guns and what kinds of purchases they make.

    , @Joe Stalin
    The Chicago Reader free newspaper once ran a large article about how a newspaper war in the last century was fought with hand grenades and not a single word appeared about it in those newspapers.

    One of the newspapers was the Chicago Tribune, a newspaper that once owned two full-auto Thompson sub-machine guns.

    The only reason we have grenades and other destructive devices regulated by BATF is because of the National Firearms Act of 1934. Everyone, including the Attorney General of the U.S. understood that Americans had a fundamental Right to Arms. Therefore, they decided they could tax private arms ownership of guns they didn't like to "regulate" them, so, machine guns acquired a tax of $200 per transfer, an outrageous amount considering the pay was like $4,500/year. In most states, it is LEGAL to own a flame thrower without a state permit. No Federal regulations.

    The McClure-Volkmer Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1985 destroyed the manufacture of new machine guns to the public. This was upheld by all manner of anti-gun judges, showing conclusively that ALL judges are the enemies of the Second Amendment. And add to that the Assault Weapon bans passed and upheld by all three branches of government; that should prove conclusively that there is NO substitute for an actual AR-15 in your home.

    So what are you waiting for? Bargains abound at the gun shop on ARs NOW.
    , @newrouter
    "but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need. "


    the nanny state logic i'm sure
    , @MarkinLA
    have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder,

    Many people who have many or an "obsessive" interest in guns are interested in becoming decent marksman like Gina Davis so they are not really fetishing their guns they are trying to become proficient with a tool.

    carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need

    The gun ranges carry insurance. Very few accidents happen so very few people would actually buy it and if forced to would create a huge stink. What would insurance have done in the case of a mass shooting by a nut? As for too many guns, many people have them for different purposes and don't bother getting rid of the old ones when they decide they want to compete in a different class. The people with a long history of gun use are seldom the ones doing the mass shootings anyway. This guy amassed most of his guns recently as did the San Bernardino shooter.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Spoken just like a woman who doesn't know a damn thing about guns.
    , @Captain Tripps

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.
     
    Your counterargument is even less compelling. Your theoretical example isn't even comparing apples to oranges (which are both at least common fruits), but more like comparing apples to space rocks. One is fairly common, the other much less so. So, you're left with argument by assertion, a fatal error in a proper debate.

    I'll part with one observation. Governments, by far and away, are the biggest mass murderers in human history. Its not even close. From Ozymandias to Saddam Hussein, leaders and their government apparatus exercise their monopoly of violence ruthlessly and liberally. By comparison, the amount of "private militias" ever raised as a counterbalance to marauding government power in human history is minuscule. You can choose to be a sheeple if you want. Me, I prefer to be sheepdog.
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  106. Travis says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    I don't think the Orlando Pulse massacre had such a high kill count due to high intelligence. I think it was due to the cops not entering to stop it for hours.

    did the shooting actually continue for the full 70 minutes (from the first shot until the cops breached his room)…if so I would expect a higher number of victims…

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    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    I suspect the shooter incurred the bulk of the casualties within the first 5-10 minutes as the crowd were confused and trying to sort out what was going on. Once they understood what was happening, they went to cover/evacuated the area. Thus the shooter would have a harder time acquiring additional targets as time went on.
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  107. @Clark Westwood

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can't take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    lol yea black men don’t feel entitled to working hard to pay for a bunch of ingrate savages

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  108. MarkinLA says:
    @reiner Tor

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined.
     
    I think that's wrong. I’m opposed to gun control, but many of the suicidal mass shooters are autistic losers, who want to take revenge on the world for their failed miserable lives. But these guys don’t necessarily have the social skills to find the black market for guns. And using firearms has a certain glamour that plowing a truck into a crowd often lacks. Occasionally they might still resort to a truck attack, though.

    In any event, that's a very rare type of crime, but it's not impossible that its likelihood could be reduced by tight gun control. That's about the only type of crime that I could think of where it really might work.

    Anybody can be “sane” for 1/2 an hour. So even if you have to see a psychiatrist to get a gun, it won’t change anything except for criminals bribing psychiatrists.

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  109. @Jonathan Mason
    Since the vast majority of mass shootings have been carried out by men, and not women or persons of indeterminate sex, it would appear that the prime causative factor is the influence of testosterone on the human brain.

    The solution, then, would probably be gelding all human males at a young age, with exceptions for those who are exceptional candidates for breeding and improving the stock of the human race. Quite a few men are already volunteering for the neutering program without the offer of financial incentives. And there would be no shortage of volunteers (mostly feminists, no doubt) for training as gelding technicians or camel brickers. A beta-testing program has already been given an extended trial on horses, and there is no doubt that it has been effective in reducing equine delinquency. The number of people killed by equine behavior-related accidents has dramatically fallen over the last century or so and a genetic speed limit has been applied to horses, mules, donkeys, ponies, camels and other quadrupeds used for transportation and racing.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    finally someone is thinking this thru

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  110. @anony-mouse
    White males may make up only their proportion of mass killers but I'll bet they make up a way higher percentage of old mass killers.

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.

    The testosterone has had longer to work on his brain. It is noticeable that it is much rarer–in fact I have never heard of it, but perhaps it happens–for women to fetishize and collect firearms, so this must be considered to be a testosterone-related trait, and it might become more exaggerated as a compensatory mechanism as a man becomes older and less sexually potent.

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    • Replies: @hyperbola
    Bla-bla-bla-BLAH. At least in some contexts, killing differences between men and women seem rather small. Subject to the usual reservations about the "validity" of statistical proofs in the social sciences.

    Let's Talk About How Women Want To Kill You
    https://nowloading.co/p/study-reveals-that-female-gamers-prefer-fantasy-weapons-when-killing/4207230
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  111. @Brabantian
    Certainly the 'older white guy with guns' image, has been a Hollywood stereotype staple of vilification for the last quarter century ... Who can forget Michael Douglas pulling out a gun to get his fast-food breakfast at WhammyBurger in 1993's 'Falling Down'
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reugi90fjCo
    And maybe the most over-the-top of all 'crazy white guy with guns' films, 2012's truly odd 'God Bless America', where a teen girl joins the guy on a killing spree ending in a theatre massacre
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruArw21EGA
    With all the dodgy aspects of the 'official story' of this event, the reports of multiple shooters, video of what appear to be shots from other locations, the lack of any common-sense basis of why this wealthy white guy with cute female companionship would do this, the offer to hire 'crisis actors' in Las Vegas before the event, the warning on 4Chan before the concert to avoid public events in Vegas, the 'Latina couple' at the concert warning attendees they would be killed shortly ... For those inclined, it's curious to observe that the massacre 'human sacrifice' took place directly under the Illuminati-symbolic huge Las Vegas Pyramid & Sphinx, as seen in this photo
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4dc2ee49e5b6a2b39b2af7fe42bf2e9d5096d87249538be36a17cad17883004.jpg

    “…cute female companionship….”

    bored identity just learned how the old adage about cuteness being in the eye of the beholder is totally legit.

    Also, alcohol & drugs could be detrimental to your judgment.

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  112. MarkinLA says:
    @Sean

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined
     
    Such people in Nevada can apparently get automatic rifles or rifles that can be converted into a belt or massive magazine machine gun.

    You cannot legally convert any semi-auto into full auto. That gets you 10 years in a federal prison. Fully automatic weapons are available but are hard to get. There is a long process and the legally transferable ones are very expensive. Some states like California make it very hard for individuals to get them although the work around by that psycho Dorner was to create a corporation and have the corporation own it. That loophole has been tightened. However anybody willing to throw down 16K to get an M-16 is probably not planning to use it criminally.

    http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/christopher-dorner-how-life-on-the-run-ended-for-calif-police-killer-1.4662786

    I wonder if he was a mass shooting guy? He killed people on different days over his firing.

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  113. MarkinLA says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings.

    Just like the drugs laws in those countries have kept the drugs out. Why didn’t you mention Mexico or Central America as a shining example of what tight gun control can do?

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  114. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I hate this tone of anti-white animus that has become so prevalent in the media.

    It’s almost always based on complete fiction, but a lot of people see these things in print and they actually believe it. It’s always been there on the fringes, but it’s become the conventional wisdom to many on the left.

    It’s a ‘blood liable’ to use a well known term. Nothing good will come of it, but I can’t see this stopping any time soon. There’s going to be conflict. People are agitating for it… there is zero common ground and diametrically opposed visions of where society is going.

    Enemy camps are formed now. It will need to be settled eventually.

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  115. MarkinLA says:
    @Wilkey
    If white men have committed *only* 54% of the mass shootings since 1982 then in all likelihood they have committen less than 50% - perhaps much less than 50% - of those since Pulse. The vibrantizing of the Universal Peoplez has accelerated dramatically since 1982.

    One need also ask what is so special about 1982? Is this the date that guns became available to the public. This is a lot like the stock picker choosing his end dates to report on his stock picking prowess.

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    • Replies: @Dnought
    Yeah it all depends on the date you choose. Seems to be much more common for non whites in the last 10 years or so.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/die-versity-64-of-last-25-mass-shooters-were-ethnically-diverse/

    And as others have said earlier, even 52% is less than the percentage of white males to total males over that period so shouldn't the question be different?

    So sick of media idiocy. Scares me a lot more than mass shooters, frankly.
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  116. Hrw-500 says:

    Some begin to ponder if there’s might be more than meet the eyes?

    http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/10/deception-at-mandalay-bay.html

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/10/las-vegas-mass-shooting-false-flag-psyop-black-op-to-distract/#more-55331

    Along with the construction of a false narrative. http://voxday.blogspot.ca/2017/10/deception-at-mandalay-bay.html

    Paul Joseph Watson posted a good vlog on this as well.

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  117. @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally,

    That is a really good idea although the insurance should also cover people that are injured (or killed) intentionally. I think it could win over some conservatives because it emphasizes personal responsibility and uses decentralized market mechanisms to regulate who buys guns and what kinds of purchases they make.

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    • Replies: @FPD72
    Great idea. And to be consistent with the other rights conferred by the first two amendments, let’s require liability policies for everybody who talks, in case of slander, for everybody who writes, in case of libel, for everybody who signs a petition or submits a form to the government, in case of fraud, and everybody who gathers with others, in case a riot breaks out. I’m not sure what special hazards might be associated with the practice of religion, but Muslims should pay much higher premiums for obvious reasons.

    The insurance companies of America approve this message.
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  118. MarkinLA says:
    @LeftLawyer
    I've always thought that there are certain crimes which are mental illness driven and therefore no racial or ethnic groups are overrepresented - this includes mass shootings, child molestation (and most sex crimes except for adult rape), kidnapping of children, and perhaps others.

    Unfortunately, the discussion about gun control is warped by how people feel about guns.

    I think there should be a two-part analysis. First, are there things can be done re gun control that would reduce these mass shootings? Second. if the answer is yes, are we, as a society, willing to do whatever that is?

    These are two distinct questions. Presumably we could do what they did in Australia and that would work - but, even without the 2nd Amendment, I doubt that a majority of Americans would want to do that. Perhaps there is something we could do that is effective short of what they do in Australia. I have no idea if there is, and certainly the public debate is never framed in terms of effectiveness.

    Even if ALL guns in private hands had to be stored in a locked safe at the gun club, what happens when criminals commit home invasion robberies where the occupants are defenseless. Who at the gun club is going to confront somebody who tries to sneak his guns out of the club?

    There are no easy questions, let alone answers.

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    • Replies: @LeftLawyer
    @MarkinLA Any figures/statistics on how many home invasion robberies are stopped by armed occupants? I'd be intereste (not being sarcastic here, I'm interested in emprical facts on this.)

    I do remeber that mass shooting in Arizona (the Gabby Gifford one.) Arizona issues concealed weapins permts fairly easily. No civilians shot back at the shooter, the cops hanlded it by themselves.
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  119. @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    The Chicago Reader free newspaper once ran a large article about how a newspaper war in the last century was fought with hand grenades and not a single word appeared about it in those newspapers.

    One of the newspapers was the Chicago Tribune, a newspaper that once owned two full-auto Thompson sub-machine guns.

    The only reason we have grenades and other destructive devices regulated by BATF is because of the National Firearms Act of 1934. Everyone, including the Attorney General of the U.S. understood that Americans had a fundamental Right to Arms. Therefore, they decided they could tax private arms ownership of guns they didn’t like to “regulate” them, so, machine guns acquired a tax of $200 per transfer, an outrageous amount considering the pay was like $4,500/year. In most states, it is LEGAL to own a flame thrower without a state permit. No Federal regulations.

    The McClure-Volkmer Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1985 destroyed the manufacture of new machine guns to the public. This was upheld by all manner of anti-gun judges, showing conclusively that ALL judges are the enemies of the Second Amendment. And add to that the Assault Weapon bans passed and upheld by all three branches of government; that should prove conclusively that there is NO substitute for an actual AR-15 in your home.

    So what are you waiting for? Bargains abound at the gun shop on ARs NOW.

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  120. Polynikes says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Charlie hebdo. The nutter in scandanavia. Criminals in seem to get guns OK in Europe.

    Same in Mexico, where they have strict gun control too.

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  121. newrouter says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    “but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need. ”

    the nanny state logic i’m sure

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  122. MarkinLA says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder,

    Many people who have many or an “obsessive” interest in guns are interested in becoming decent marksman like Gina Davis so they are not really fetishing their guns they are trying to become proficient with a tool.

    carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need

    The gun ranges carry insurance. Very few accidents happen so very few people would actually buy it and if forced to would create a huge stink. What would insurance have done in the case of a mass shooting by a nut? As for too many guns, many people have them for different purposes and don’t bother getting rid of the old ones when they decide they want to compete in a different class. The people with a long history of gun use are seldom the ones doing the mass shootings anyway. This guy amassed most of his guns recently as did the San Bernardino shooter.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Many people who have many or an “obsessive” interest in guns are interested in becoming decent marksman like Gina Davis so they are not really fetishing their guns they are trying to become proficient with a tool.
     
    There is a difference between being interested in guns and being interested in shooting. Its like the difference between being interested in guitars and interested in music.

    Most people have a blend, but lots of people on the poles. Me, I liked shooting but wasn't especially interested in guns for their own sake like others I've known.

    Anyhow, there isn't anything more wrong about "fetishizing" guns than there is in doing so with any other collectors item.
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  123. It’s interesting to see that when the facts are correctly aligned with the narrative, the MSM actually is capable of noticing patterns. Let’s have some fun with who/whom!

    The deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was shocking in its scale — but it wasn’t a surprise that it was committed by a white male.

    The deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history was shocking in its scale — but it wasn’t a surprise that it was committed by a Muslim.

    Other research suggests white men commit mass shootings out of a sense of entitlement.

    Other research suggests black men commit gang shootings/welfare fraud out of a sense of entitlement.

    Other research suggests women commit divorce rape/frivolous lawsuits against their employers out of a sense of entitlement.

    Other research suggests hispanic men commit immigration/social security fraud out of a sense of entitlement.

    Other research suggests Arab and African men rape natives of the nations that welcomed them as refugees out of a sense of entitlement.

    If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.

    Well, yeah. The stigma around unemployment in the white community vs the complete absence thereof in the black community is one of the defining differences between said communities. Some might say it’s dishonest to compare the two in this manner.

    It’s important that we all be vigilant for backlash against innocent members of the white community, most of whom will never commit a mass shooting. #NotAllWhiteMen

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    • Agree: Travis
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  124. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    It’s undeniably true that open gun laws will cost lives, but I also think there is something to the argument that a government should have a heathy fear of it’s population.

    If the population wasn’t armed, the government (which I believe is corrupt) would be far more aggressive in taking away liberties. We see in Europe, the government in Germany censoring media and in the UK police are making visits to people’s homes who post impolite things on Internet forums. They have made critique of Jewish power or Israel virtually illegal.

    The elite know people are upset. They would like nothing more than to take away free speech. They would love nothing more than a feeble, pauperized, unthreatening population. What many don’t understand is that the elite don’t really want a healthy, involved, united middle-class — the leadership of America have actually become UN-American. They have outgrown America. The American system and it’s people hamper and threaten them and their real objectives.

    If you watch the Documentary ‘We Need to Talk About Sandy Hook’ you’ll get some idea of just how keen the government is to get guns out of the hands of Americans.

    We live in interesting times. I hope Americans will stay armed at least until Civil War V.2 is over.

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  125. @J.Ross
    Is there anyone who does not receive a "blow to their psyche" on losing a high-paying job? Why is this Alan Fox person allowed to babble like this?

    Is there anyone who does not receive a “blow to their psyche” on losing a high-paying job? Why is this Alan Fox person allowed to babble like this?

    Let’s hope Perfesser Fox gets some first-hand experience.

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  126. @Buzz Mohawk

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with [guns].
     
    Oh sure, so let's just trust our authorities to have them. That's just great. It's the mentality of "our superiors know better."

    There is a reason for the Second Amendment. It still holds.

    We'll give up our arms when those who are supposed to derive their power from us give up theirs. No, that's not right, because we want them armed, to do their jobs.

    This same gun topic goes 'round and 'round every time. Let's outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.

    Yes, let's take away Man's freedom to make fire. After all, he's too crazy to be trusted with it.

    No wonder most people on Earth have never been free. They're easy to control.

    There's an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people's luggage when they check into hotels now. He says we need to live like the Israelis. Nonsense. We're already being poked, prodded, scanned and intruded upon too much. There comes a point when you have to tell your parents to leave you alone and let you live in the real world with all its risks.

    Liberty or death. So be it.

    There’s an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people’s luggage when they check into hotels now.

    I’ve been to a lot of hotels in Israel, and they’ve never asked to look in my bags. They will, however, want to see what’s in the trunk of your car if you want to drive into an underground parking lot.

    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?
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  127. @Maj. Kong
    Youngstown, Ohio has been devastated economically for more than 40 years, that's two whole generations born without knowing prosperity.

    Unicorns are extinct.

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  128. @Karl
    19 International Jew > Criteria is the plural of criterion.


    but he ==was== referencing a more-than-one number of cirterionii.


    By the way shipmate, shouldn't you rather be brushing up on your Hebrew grammar?

    He said “criteria is”.

    הדקדוק העברי שלי הוא בסדר גמור, יא חתיכת חרא.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think he used a naughty word. Is calling someone "a piece of shit" naughty?
    , @Jimi Shmendrix
    I would gone with "hatichat efes", the more polite variation.
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  129. All these events are bad. But they tend to be rather different.

    They distinguish between “serial” and “spree” killers– e.g., Ted Bundy and Andrew Cunanan, respectively. This one seems to be a hybrid of both.

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  130. @AM
    "As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours."

    Why wouldn't it take them an hour? The call has to come in - that's zero - but it's not really zero. He would have been shooting for at least 2-3 minutes, but likely closer 5-10.

    Then you get the dispatcher at 911 who can't just send 2 nearby patrol cops out to deal with it. They need to round up a lot of people and they need to get there with enough weapons and body armor.

    And it was dark, so it wasn't obvious which floor the shots were coming from, so they started on the wrong floor, 29 to be exact when they needed to be on 32. Then they had bust in the door.

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don't see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don't know.

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don’t see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don’t know.

    It seems like a long delay when you start with all of the information and work backwards.

    But in the moment there are dozens of “unknown unknowns” in the parlance of Secretary Rumsfeld.

    It probably takes a good 5-10 minutes alone to sort out that people reporting to 911 that other people are being shot at the outside venue were actually being shot from the Mandalay Bay building a few hundred yards away.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The point that (apparently) the smoke alarm went off and the security guard got shot in front of the correct door was at 13 minutes. It then took the cops another hour to enter the room for reasons not clear to me. Luckily the guy was not shooting out the window after the 13 min mark from what I understand.
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  131. Dr. X says:

    OT: Jewish liberal Larry David discovers his ancestors owned slaves:

    http://www.al.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/10/larry_david_finding_your_roots.html

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Hopefully he will do the right thing and immediately donate all his money to African Americans. It's only fair.
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  132. L Woods says:

    Yes, how dare white men feel “entitled” to a means to support themselves and a family. How dare they feel “entitled” to a sense of ownership over anything at all. In fact, how dare they feel entitled even to breath. Entitlements are for the Diverse. Have we screeched about a lack of black Oscar/idiocratic trophy of the month winners lately?

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  133. Jack D says:
    @reiner Tor

    An affluent, well-organized, determined suicide killer sounds like an odd case to use as a call for gun control since it’s not clear how gun control could stop somebody determined.
     
    I think that's wrong. I’m opposed to gun control, but many of the suicidal mass shooters are autistic losers, who want to take revenge on the world for their failed miserable lives. But these guys don’t necessarily have the social skills to find the black market for guns. And using firearms has a certain glamour that plowing a truck into a crowd often lacks. Occasionally they might still resort to a truck attack, though.

    In any event, that's a very rare type of crime, but it's not impossible that its likelihood could be reduced by tight gun control. That's about the only type of crime that I could think of where it really might work.

    Regarding Olga, I would be really pissed too if I was a cartoon character.

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  134. george says:

    Darrow might say that it is the forever war that is to blame.

    Clarence Darrow A Plea for Mercy delivered September 1924 final argument Leopold and Loeb trial.

    Now, your Honor, I have spoken about the war. I believed in it. I don’t know whether I was crazy or not. Sometimes I think perhaps I was. I approved of it; I joined in the general cry of madness and despair. I urged men to fight. I was safe because I was too old to go. I was like the rest. What did they do? Right or wrong, justifiable or unjustifiable — which I need not discuss today — it changed the world. For four long years the civilized world was engaged in killing men. Christian against Christian, barbarian uniting with Christians to kill Christians; anything to kill. It was taught in every school, aye in the Sunday schools. The little children played at war. The toddling children on the street. Do you suppose this world has ever been the same since? How long, your Honor, will it take for the world to get back the humane emotions that were slowly growing before the war? How long will it take the calloused hearts of men before the scars of hatred and cruelty shall be removed? …

    It will take fifty years to wipe it out of the human heart, if ever. I know this, that after the Civil War in 1865, crimes of this sort increased, marvelously. …

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  135. Jack D says:
    @Rod1963
    No it's more than that.

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex

    Seriously, this guy wasn't your typical gun nut who spent a lot of time at the range and prepper sites with a massive library of military tactic manuals. He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know.

    Plus the motivation angle: None of the traditional motives make any sense.

    His attacking the country music crowd instead of the casinos.This was a political attack There was nothing stopping him from leasing a two engine prop job, loading it to the gills with ANFO or even jet fuel and flying it into the casino.

    He didn't

    Instead he targeted a mostly white, and traditionally American music festival, he was making a deliberate political statement to you know who.

    There is something law enforcement isn't telling us because it's politically very explosive. I mean the police are going out of their way to throw up a wall of bullshit. The only times they say they can't find the motive for a mass killing is when it involves Muslims.

    ISIS would claim the attack as one of their

    Consider that.
    .

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex.

    People who are in a profession tend to overestimate how hard it is for a dedicated amateur to do their job. The guy was very effective but what he did was not rocket science. A pro would not have told him to have a dozen guns and thousands more rounds of ammo than he really used. The guy was over-prepared in the way a dedicated amateur would overprepare.

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    • Agree: ATX Hipster
    • Replies: @Lugash
    Strong agree. Since 9/11 is there anyone who doesn't war game terrorist scenarios any time they're in a public area? This guy was Charles Wittman with a better plan. No advanced training or previous experience was necessary.
    , @guest
    The argument would be better if it was less amateur versus professional than crackpot versus the Dunning-Kruger effect. Because you kinda have to be overconfident to think you could pull off the greatest mass shooting in history--if that's what he was aiming for--from a hotel room hundreds of yards away.

    If this guy is off his rocker, you might expect him to be overconfident in his abilities and overlook things that would be obvious to more knowledgeable people. I realize they were just kids, but the Columbine killers wanted to out-do Oklahoma City with their bomb, but it was a dud. They (or Eric at least) had too much confidence in their bombmaking abilities. This guy, though he overdid it, apparently knew what he was doing. Crazed amateurs aren't known for that.

    The classic example, though I don't know whether he was crazy, was the guy who robbed banks without any attempt at disguise besides covering himself in lemon juice. Because they use lemon juice for invisible ink, or something.

    I'm not surprised people are suspicious of this guy for not screwing up. He doesn't have to look as foolish as the lemon juice guy or the guy in Iran who paid a wizard to make him invisible before robbing a bank. People just expect him to be less successful than he was.

    , @Bill
    Agree. The praise of this guy is like the praise of the 9/11 hijackers. It's just bizarre. 9/11 was a reasonably good idea with mediocre execution. Same thing here. I guess if you are used to thinking about and dealing with criminals and soldiers, the capabilities of smart people seem implausible to you.

    Does anyone know what those long pauses in the gunfire are in this case? They seem too long to be either magazine exchanges or gun exchanges. So, what's going on? Is he slow and clumsy? Is he admiring his work?
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  136. Jack D says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Even if what you say is correct, there are now more guns than people in America. The government has no idea who owns these guns for the most part. Even if you rounded up say 90% of the guns, that would still leave maybe 30 million around. Not to mention that (even putting aside 3D printing and CAD/CAM) it’s not that hard to make your own gun. All kinds of illegal drugs get smuggled into the US – gun running would be a lucrative sideline. In short, even if getting rid of guns was really a good idea, you are never going to get the genie back in the bottle.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  137. @anonymous
    Banning the use and sale of narcotics for non-medical purposes has worked. Banning illegal entry into these United States has worked. So I’m all for banning firearms!

    Lot of young people want drugs legalized and gun control.
    Drugs are illegal and ubiquitous .
    What makes these idiots think more gun laws would work?
    Murder is already illegal.
    Isn’t this mega obvious?

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  138. Jack D says:
    @Alec Leamas

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don’t see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don’t know.
     
    It seems like a long delay when you start with all of the information and work backwards.

    But in the moment there are dozens of "unknown unknowns" in the parlance of Secretary Rumsfeld.

    It probably takes a good 5-10 minutes alone to sort out that people reporting to 911 that other people are being shot at the outside venue were actually being shot from the Mandalay Bay building a few hundred yards away.

    The point that (apparently) the smoke alarm went off and the security guard got shot in front of the correct door was at 13 minutes. It then took the cops another hour to enter the room for reasons not clear to me. Luckily the guy was not shooting out the window after the 13 min mark from what I understand.

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    • Replies: @AM

    The point that (apparently) the smoke alarm went off and the security guard got shot in front of the correct door was at 13 minutes.
     
    How were the regular police, who come in from the outside, in numbers from somewhere not in at the Mandalay Bay, supposed to know that information? I don't think even the most sophisticated smoke alarms tell you exactly which room it went off in.

    I can imagine the security office only knowing that the smoke alarm went off in a certain bank of floors and that their security guard had not yet returned at the time of arrival, which could have not been later than minute mark 45.

    It's easy to be a armchair security guard. I suspect the actual turmoil of such an unexpected event makes both the 13 minute mark arrival of internal security and the 72 of external quite a miracle.

    Luckily the guy was not shooting out the window after the 13 min mark from what I understand.
     
    It's possible he committed suicide when the security guard first came. I saw a leaked picture with was rather gruesome of his dead body in place. The blood on the edges of the pool looked it had started to dry.
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  139. TWS says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    Then don’t own one or go live somewhere the ownership and use are not protected rights.

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  140. Jack D says:
    @International Jew

    There’s an Israeli-American security expert going around on TV saying we need to inspect people’s luggage when they check into hotels now.
     
    I've been to a lot of hotels in Israel, and they've never asked to look in my bags. They will, however, want to see what's in the trunk of your car if you want to drive into an underground parking lot.

    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

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    • Replies: @L Woods
    Quite a lot once leftists are thrown out/off of it.
    , @newrouter
    "This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. "

    sure like the va tech guy pal
    , @Steve Sailer
    Sounds like the security guard who took a bullet at the 13 minute mark was a hero.
    , @Opinionator
    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American.

    What evidence have you seen for that?
    , @bomag

    What would a wall around the country do in this case?
     
    They are riffing on security in general. If we screen people at entrances; such as country entrances or hotel entrances; then we don't have to be suspicious of every single stranger around us.
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  141. bomag says:
    @Jonathan Mason
    Since the vast majority of mass shootings have been carried out by men, and not women or persons of indeterminate sex, it would appear that the prime causative factor is the influence of testosterone on the human brain.

    The solution, then, would probably be gelding all human males at a young age, with exceptions for those who are exceptional candidates for breeding and improving the stock of the human race. Quite a few men are already volunteering for the neutering program without the offer of financial incentives. And there would be no shortage of volunteers (mostly feminists, no doubt) for training as gelding technicians or camel brickers. A beta-testing program has already been given an extended trial on horses, and there is no doubt that it has been effective in reducing equine delinquency. The number of people killed by equine behavior-related accidents has dramatically fallen over the last century or so and a genetic speed limit has been applied to horses, mules, donkeys, ponies, camels and other quadrupeds used for transportation and racing.

    What could possibly go wrong?

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  142. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    We don’t really know this for sure. Anyone who gambles as much as he did and lives in a casino hotel for months on end is a bit unusual.

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  143. Yak-15 says:
    @Dr. X
    OT: Jewish liberal Larry David discovers his ancestors owned slaves:

    http://www.al.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/10/larry_david_finding_your_roots.html

    Hopefully he will do the right thing and immediately donate all his money to African Americans. It’s only fair.

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  144. L Woods says:
    @Jack D
    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    Quite a lot once leftists are thrown out/off of it.

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  145. OT:

    Steve, I don’t know if you’ve been following Equifax’s leak of about half of America’s private credit data, but in light of L’Affaire Damore, it turns out the head of Equifax’s data security was probably an affirmative action appointment.

    WashPo BezosBlog skips over the lede to plead for tolerance of liberal arts majors in tech.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/09/19/equifaxs-top-security-exec-made-some-big-mistakes-studying-music-wasnt-one-of-them

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    This is not from the Onion: IRS awards multimillion-dollar fraud-prevention contract to Equifax.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/equifax-irs-fraud-protection-contract-243419
    , @MarkinLA
    Yeah like Carly Fiorina another woman running a tech company without any real tech background.
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  146. Jack D says:
    @International Jew
    He said "criteria is".

    הדקדוק העברי שלי הוא בסדר גמור, יא חתיכת חרא.

    I think he used a naughty word. Is calling someone “a piece of shit” naughty?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Is that a traditional insult?
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  147. Neoconned says:
    @Guy de Champlagne
    I support stronger gun control, but the fact is democrats wouldn't get anywhere even if without republican opposition because, as this silly article demonstrates, they're too consumed with their crackpot racial politics. You can't simultaneously crack down on gun crime and carry out black lives matter mandated de policing.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-article-1.1221062

    They aren’t more common Steve. There were a lot more in the early 20th century.

    And in the recent era they peaked in the 80s and 90s and in particular the late 1990s. Theyve actually been on the decline.

    The 24/7 media didnt exist twenty yrs ago and gins this crap up to get ratings.

    That and the gun grabbers and police unions are pushing this narrative.

    The gun grabbers for obvious reasons and the cops/prison sector because they’ve created a police state w the largest convict population on the planet that’s consuming an insane portiom of GDP.

    That and the fact violent crime is way down since the mid 1990s and they have to scare up fake crime trends to retain their jobs and pensions.

    If more Americans and especially right wingers realized this therewould be credible calls for a 30-60pc reduction in prison slash court slash law enforcement employment and these peoplr would have to compete with honest work like the rest of us broke peons.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    Have you ever considered that mass incarceration/law enforcement are why crime has declined since the 1970s and major cities are liveable again? Surely locking up criminals during their prime crime committing years has contributed zero. . .
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  148. @Jack D
    I think he used a naughty word. Is calling someone "a piece of shit" naughty?

    Is that a traditional insult?

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    • Replies: @bomag
    POS is widely used. It is most commonly applied to inanimate objects: "this microwave is a POS"; "my car is a POS".
    , @kaganovitch
    It's Hebrew slang derived from Yiddish "Ah shtik dreck" or "Ah shtik tinef" which mean a p.o.s.
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  149. Dnought says:
    @MarkinLA
    One need also ask what is so special about 1982? Is this the date that guns became available to the public. This is a lot like the stock picker choosing his end dates to report on his stock picking prowess.

    Yeah it all depends on the date you choose. Seems to be much more common for non whites in the last 10 years or so.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/die-versity-64-of-last-25-mass-shooters-were-ethnically-diverse/

    And as others have said earlier, even 52% is less than the percentage of white males to total males over that period so shouldn’t the question be different?

    So sick of media idiocy. Scares me a lot more than mass shooters, frankly.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    So sick of media idiocy. Scares me a lot more than mass shooters, frankly.
     
    Does a lot more damage, too. Wrecks societies and nations.

    But it's not idiocy--it's deliberate and conscious, repeatedly and consistently connecting means with ends.

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  150. Jack D says:

    There’s an old saying that “hard cases make bad law”. The most common type of shooting in America, by far, is black people shooting other black people one or two at a time. Of course these shootings don’t make the front pages. They get listed in the police blotter on p.6 of the local paper:

    A 6-year-old boy was shot and wounded in North Philadelphia. It happened around 7:50 p.m. Friday near 24th and Norris streets. The child was taken by police and rushed to Temple University Hospital, where he is listed in stable condition. The shooter remains at large. There is no immediate word on a motive.

    Repeat every day in every big city thousands of time each year.

    So some kind of worthwhile gun control, if such a thing was possible in the US (it isn’t) would focus on those kind of shootings and not the rare white guy who goes postal.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    The problem for liberals is that they don't want to arrest black shooters. They want all guns to magically and mysteriously disappear. There are tons of black folks that could be sent to prison under state and federal gun charges for being felons in possession of a firearm, armed robbery, brandishing, etc. But if they did that, the black and white liberal communities would start yammering about the school-to-prison pipeline, second chances and the like.
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  151. AndrewR says:
    @Clark Westwood

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can't take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    Does this guy honestly think that blacks “don’t have a feeling of entitlement”??? Blacks on average have a MUCH higher sense of entitlement than whites.

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    • Replies: @TheJester
    Ethnic populations on the "outside looking in" are usually the ones with an overbearing sense of entitlement. They tend not to understand how those who "have" have acquired what they have. They don't see the hard work and, therefore, tend to believe the SWPL are "gifted" to them. This is expressed in the simple, often-heard demand, "I want to own what you own."

    Cameos ....

    We were visiting German friends in Germany when the phone rang. It was from a couple they knew in East Germany; they had escaped to Hungary and were en route to Germany. Our friends sponsored them in their small village. They arranged an apartment, household furniture, and jobs. This soon went sour. The couple did not want to work for the finer things of life. They wanted it given to them. This sentiment turned into demands. Besides, as the man said, he did not want to paint houses; the work was too hard. In short time, the village gave up on them.

    More recently, an older black man confronted a group of white youth protesting something or other in the deep South. The video hit the mainstream. In the video, the black is forthright in expressing his entitlement, "I want to own what you own." That is, what was "gifted" to you I want "gifted" to me, too.

    I once commented on the Unz Review that I sensed that blacks behave as they do since they perceive that SWPL are "gifted to whites. A black commenter agreed. He said that he believed that in his youth until he became a professional and learned how hard white people worked for what they have. He said it was all in the detail ... and whites were to blame because they made it all look so easy. Whites were evidently fooling blacks by making acquiring the good things in life look like "gifting".

    I have first-hand experience with another group of people who believe they are entitled ... and that is Muslims. They are entitled because the SWPL (which includes their oil) are "gifted" to them by Allah as a reward for being Muslim. They do not have to do anything to earn them. I lived and worked in the Middle East for a decade. Muslims expressed this sentiment to me on numerous occasions. Hence, it is an open question whether the masses of Muslims streaming into the European welfare states will ever work. Why should they as they await "Allah's gifts"? Indeed, they have no reciprocal obligations to European society. The fact the infidels took them in was the hand of Allah at work in rewarding them for their Islamic piety.

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  152. Well, the DC Snipers were decidedly dark. There were mass-murdering Blacks for years on the West Coast murdering Whites. The 9/11 folks were Muslims. The Va Tech mutt was Asian. The drive by killings wound tens, killing several every time and they happen all over the country every single DAY. Then, the Blacks shoot up the funerals. Then, they shoot up the memorial marches against violence. The mutts that ambush cops, all Black. Blacks are feral. Considering percentages of population, I don’t know by what tricks of statistics are played that assign Whites such a high number of these. Just the everyday crime in the big, dark, Democrat-base cities ought to be classified as mass-murder. Hey, it’s the NYT and WashPost’s job to prop the Blacks and denigrate the Whites because that happens to be the Israeli mission for now, but aside from a very, very few, the mayhem is decidedly Black in this country. Take away the crime of Blacks and Hispanics and we really wouldn’t even HAVE a crime problem in this country.

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  153. @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    Spoken just like a woman who doesn’t know a damn thing about guns.

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  154. @Jonathan Mason
    Since the vast majority of mass shootings have been carried out by men, and not women or persons of indeterminate sex, it would appear that the prime causative factor is the influence of testosterone on the human brain.

    The solution, then, would probably be gelding all human males at a young age, with exceptions for those who are exceptional candidates for breeding and improving the stock of the human race. Quite a few men are already volunteering for the neutering program without the offer of financial incentives. And there would be no shortage of volunteers (mostly feminists, no doubt) for training as gelding technicians or camel brickers. A beta-testing program has already been given an extended trial on horses, and there is no doubt that it has been effective in reducing equine delinquency. The number of people killed by equine behavior-related accidents has dramatically fallen over the last century or so and a genetic speed limit has been applied to horses, mules, donkeys, ponies, camels and other quadrupeds used for transportation and racing.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Steve’s b-school buddy Martine Rothblatt suggested in a book that all males be forced to get vasectomies at puberty, after storing sperm samples, to prevent unwanted pregnancies. The sperm would be given back in adulthood if the man wanted to have children…

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    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    The sperm would be given back in adulthood if the man wanted to have children…
     
    Oh yeah, I'd trust THAT. By then, Mr. White Man with your White wife, we'll make sure YOUR sample implanted in your wife is from a Black. And you WILL raise and support "your" baby. Actually, there's a lot of that now with White women cheating on their hubbies with Blacks. And when the baby comes out a halfer, the husband gets to support it anyway.
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  155. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    So the constant attack on white people is supposed to make them feel comfortable giving up their guns?

    I guess the shame-based attacks worked in the 70s. But it’s become too obvious they hate our guts. Why would anyone want to be disarmed in such an environment?

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  156. This clip shows how easy it would have been for the shooter. Nothing NSFW in it but notice how many people don’t believe the noise is gunfire. At about 45 seconds, you see a plastic cup get hit on the tarmac in front of the cluster of vaping geniuses in the foreground:

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  157. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Rod1963
    No it's more than that.

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex

    Seriously, this guy wasn't your typical gun nut who spent a lot of time at the range and prepper sites with a massive library of military tactic manuals. He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know.

    Plus the motivation angle: None of the traditional motives make any sense.

    His attacking the country music crowd instead of the casinos.This was a political attack There was nothing stopping him from leasing a two engine prop job, loading it to the gills with ANFO or even jet fuel and flying it into the casino.

    He didn't

    Instead he targeted a mostly white, and traditionally American music festival, he was making a deliberate political statement to you know who.

    There is something law enforcement isn't telling us because it's politically very explosive. I mean the police are going out of their way to throw up a wall of bullshit. The only times they say they can't find the motive for a mass killing is when it involves Muslims.

    ISIS would claim the attack as one of their

    Consider that.
    .

    Apparently he liked country music and went to country music concerts:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-liked-to-gamble-listened-to-country-music-lived-quiet-retired-life-before-massacre

    In the final years of his life, Stephen Paddock was living out his retirement in quiet obscurity. He liked country music, relatives said, and went to concerts like the Route 91 Harvest festival where he killed so many Sunday night.

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    • Replies: @Polynikes
    Makes me think even more that he was a lefty. Probably was disgusted by the amount of Trump and pro America stuff he was increasingly seeing at these concerts.

    Just conjecture, tho
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  158. Are mass killings in America mostly committed by American white men?

    2017 – San Francisco (California) UPS shooting of three Americans – Asian male.
    2017 – Bogue Chitto (Mississippi) shooting of eight Americans – African-American male
    2017 – Fresno (California) shooting of four Americans – African-American male (probably Islam related).
    2017 – Fort Lauderdale (Florida) airport shooting of five Americans – Puerto Rican male (probably Islam related).
    2016 – Los Angeles (California) party shooting of four Americans – Jamaican-African male immigrant
    2016 – Burlington (Washington) Mall shooting of five Americans – Turkish male immigrant (probably Islam related).
    2016 – Baton Rouge (Louisiana) shooting of three American police officers – African-American male
    2016 – Dallas (Texas) shooting of five American police officers – African-American male
    2016 – Orlando (Florida) shooting of 49 Americans – Afghan-American male (2nd generation) (probably Islam related).
    2016 – High Point HS (Maryland) shooting of three Americans – Asian male
    2015 – Inland Regional Center, San Bernardino (California) shooting of 14 Americans – Pakistani-American male (2nd generation) & Pakistani female immigrant (probably Islam related).
    2015 – Umpqua (Oregon) Community College shooting of nine Americans – half-Black male immigrant
    2015 – Chattanooga (Tennessee) shootings of five American military men – Kuwaiti male immigrant (probably Islam related).
    2014 – Alturas (California) shooting of four Americans – Native-American female
    2014 – Springfield (Missouri) shooting of four Americans – African-American male
    2014 – Marysville (Washington) shooting of four Americans – Native-American male
    2014 – Santa Barbara (California) college killing of six Americans – half-Asian male immigrant
    2014 – Fort Hood (Texas) shooting, four Americans killed – Puerto Rican male immigrant
    2013 – Washington Navy Yard (DC) shooting, 12 Americans killed – African-American male
    2013 – Hialeah (Florida) shooting of six Americans – Cuban male immigrant
    2013 – Boston (Massachusetts) Marathon killings, five Americans died – two Chechen male immigrants (probably Islam related).
    2012 – Miami (Florida), three Americans shot – Haitian male immigrant
    2012 – Oikos University (California) shooting of seven Americans – Korean male immigrant
    2011 – Permanente Quarry (California) shooting of three Americans – African-American male
    2011 – Carson City (Nevada) IHOP killing of four Americans – Mexican male immigrant
    2010 – Hartford Distributors (Connecticut) shooting of eight Americans – African-American male
    2009 – Fort Hood (Texas) shooting, 13 American soldiers killed – Palestinian-American male (2nd generation) (probably Islam related).
    2009 – Lakewood (Washington) shooting of four American police officers – African-American male
    2009 – Binghamton (New York) shooting of 13 Americans – Vietnamese male immigrant
    2007 – Virginia Tech (Virginia) shooting killing 32 Americans – Korean male immigrant
    2007 – Salt Lake City (Utah) shopping mall, five Americans killed – Bosnian male immigrant (probably Islam related).
    2005 – Red Lake (Minnesota) shooting of 10 Americans – Native-American male
    2004 – Birchwood (Wisconsin) killing of six Americans – Hmong male immigrant
    2004 – ConAgra (Kansas) killing of five Americans – African-American male
    2003 – Windy City Core Supply warehouse Chicago (Illinois) in 2003, six Americans killed – Mexican male immigrant
    2003 – Huntsville (Alabama) shooting of four Americans – African-American male
    2002 – D.C. Sniper (Washington DC Metro Area) killing of 17 Americans – African-American male and Jamaican-African male immigrant (probably Islam related).
    2001 – Navistar International (Illinois) shooting of four Americans – African-American male
    2000 – Queens Wendy’s (New York) killing of five Americans – African-American male
    2000 – Mi-T-Fine Car Wash (Texas) shootings of six Americans – African-American male
    1997 – Phelon Company (South Carolina) massacre of four Americans – African-American male
    1996 – Aurora Chuck E. Cheese (Colorado) killing of four Americans – African-American male
    1996 – Fort Lauderdale (Florida) shooting of five Americans – African-American male
    1996 – Tardy Furniture (Mississippi) killing of four Americans – African-American male
    1993 – Long Island (New York) Railroad massacre, six Americans dead – Jamaican male immigrant
    1993 – 101 California Street (San Francisco) shootings of nine Americans – Ethiopian male immigrant
    1990 – GMAC massacre Jacksonville (Florida) 11 Americans killed – African-American male
    1987 – Flight 1771 massacre of 42 Americans – Jamaican-African male immigrant.
    1973 – Los Angeles gas station (California) shootings of seven Americans
    1964 – Flight 773 massacre of 44 Americans – Filipino male immigrant.

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  159. Twinkie says:
    @Guy de Champlagne
    I support stronger gun control, but the fact is democrats wouldn't get anywhere even if without republican opposition because, as this silly article demonstrates, they're too consumed with their crackpot racial politics. You can't simultaneously crack down on gun crime and carry out black lives matter mandated de policing.

    I support stronger gun control

    Then women like you don’t have to have any. It’s a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don’t get in the way of MY gun ownership.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Then women like you don’t have to have any. It’s a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don’t get in the way of MY gun ownership.
     
    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    But the real question is to what extent can life as we know it be allowed to deteriorate from what it once was? Conservatism, by definition, is about slowing change and preserving what is good.

    Terrorism has already profoundly impacted several areas of American life, for example air travel has become a nightmare of security rigmaroles, and even long distance bus travel cannot be done now without producing some kind of government ID. Schools are surrounded by chain link fences and patrolled by guards, and often have police officers within the school. Most government buildings and courthouses demand that people turn out their pockets, subject themselves to scans and pat downs, and so on. People are searched on entering sports events and musical concerts.

    Supposing the situation continues to deteriorate and people stop going to public events, which are now played to empty stadiums and only shown on TV, as happened with a Barcelona soccer match last week.

    Supposing government security in areas of the US breaks down to the extent that de facto rule by rival warlords and their armed supporters is the case in large areas of territory? This may seem fanciful, but there are already areas where criminal gangs stake out "territories" that they defend from each other, and in fact internecine gang warfare is probably already the cause of a substantial number of shooting deaths in certain cities.

    Is the ONLY answer that we all need to sit at home with our families behind bulletproof walls with gunports facing the street on each house and defend ourselves with our own weapons? There is a saying that every man's home is his castle, but is this supposed to be figurative or literal?

    Or is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk of dying by bomb or gunfire at home or in the streets, or public and commercial spaces?

    The way many people see it, we are doomed by our immutable Constitution and its Amendments, so perhaps the only answer is a new American Revolution and a new Constitution for modern times that contains new rights for We The People.

    It would be strange if a revolution was the only conservative solution, but when a Constitution becomes fossilized, it might be the only way to break the mold.

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  160. Twinkie says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    There are probably fairly determined would-be killers in Canada, Australia, Europe and the UK. Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings. Even jihadist nutters have to stick to knives, bombs and vehiculsr homicide apart from the Bataclan attack.

    There was an American pro-gun advocate on the BBC Today program this morning. He said strong gun control would not prevent people killing each other e g. the 911 murders were carried out by box cutter wielders. And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing. Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren't as freely available. People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing.

    Well, if facts didn’t convince you…

    Researcher Gary Kleck’s study found 5 times as many defensive use of guns as gun crimes.

    Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren’t as freely available.

    You think suicidal people will say, “Gee. I can’t get a gun. I guess I won’t slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river”?

    Gun deaths by accident are exceedingly rare. Much rarer than drowning in pools or mortally falling from stairs.

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.

    I usually find that people who are afraid of guns tend to project.

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    • Replies: @res

    Researcher Gary Kleck’s study found 5 times as many defensive use of guns as gun crimes.
     
    Twinkie, I usually find you very credible, but how closely have you looked into Kleck's results? My understanding is he performed a telephone survey--which I hardly find definitive. Is there more substance to his research than that? I don't have much of a dog in this fight (my main desire is more enforcement of existing laws against illegal gun ownership and use of a gun in commission of a crime), but this also means I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the literature in this area. Despite that, this link provides some arguments against Kleck's work which I find compelling: https://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/

    Do you have a response?

    P.S. Fairly long excerpt after the MORE.


    In 1997, David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, offered the first of many decisive rebukes of Kleck and Getz’s methodology, citing several overarching biases in their study.

    First, there is the social desirability bias. Respondents will falsely claim that their gun has been used for its intended purpose—to ward off a criminal—in order to validate their initial purchase. A respondent may also exaggerate facts to appear heroic to the interviewer.

    Second, there’s the problem of gun owners responding strategically. Given that there are around 3 million members of the National Rifle Association (NRA) in the United States, ostensibly all aware of the debate surrounding defensive gun use, Hemenway suggested that some gun advocates will lie to help bias estimates upwards by either blatantly fabricating incidents or embellishing situations that should not actually qualify as defensive gun use.

    Third is the risk of false positives from “telescoping,” where respondents may recall an actual self-defense use that is outside the question’s time frame. We know that telescoping problems produce substantial biases in defensive gun use estimates because the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), the gold standard of criminal victimization surveys, explicitly catalogs and corrects for it.

    Specifically, NCVS asks questions on the household level every 6 months. The first household interview has no time frame. Follow-up interviews are restricted to a six-month time frame and then NCVS corrects for duplicates. Using this strategy, NCVS finds that telescoping alone likely produces at least a 30 percent increase in false positives.

    These sorts of biases, which are inherent in reporting self-defense incidents, can lead to nonsensical results. In several crime categories, for example, gun owners would have to protect themselves more than 100 percent of the time for Kleck and Getz’s estimates to make sense. For example, guns were allegedly used in self-defense in 845,000 burglaries, according to Kleck and Getz. However, from reliable victimization surveys, we know that there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries where someone was in the home at the time of the crime, and only 33 percent of these had occupants who weren’t sleeping. From surveys on firearm ownership, we also know that 42 percent of U.S. households owned firearms at the time of the survey. Even if burglars only rob houses of gun owners, and those gun owners use their weapons in self-defense every single time they are awake, the 845,000 statistic cited in Kleck and Gertz’s paper is simply mathematically impossible.
     
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  161. There is an assumption that mass killers must have something wrong with them mentally whereas people who murder just one individual (at a time maybe) do not. My belief that that anyone who murders another person must have something wrong with them.

    Perhaps this is some mental trick to avoid admitting that the usual suspects who do most of the killing are doing so out of some justification such as poverty or racism.

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  162. anonguy says:
    @Maj. Kong
    Youngstown, Ohio has been devastated economically for more than 40 years, that's two whole generations born without knowing prosperity.

    Youngstown, Ohio has been devastated economically for more than 40 years, that’s two whole generations born without knowing prosperity.

    It mystifies me why anyone sticks around multi-generational rust belt dysfunction zones. At least Appalachian poverty has nice views, great outdoors, etc.

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  163. newrouter says:
    @Jack D
    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    “This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. ”

    sure like the va tech guy pal

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Paddock doesn't sound Korean to me.
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  164. Twinkie says:
    @cwhatfuture
    So what if white men do commit a majority of the "mass killings" (however defined) in the US. In Japan, Japanese men commit 100% of the mass killings. But when I go to Japan, I don't worry about being murdered in a crowd. What matters are the murder rates. Plain old "killings".

    So what if white men do commit a majority of the “mass killings” (however defined) in the US. In Japan, Japanese men commit 100% of the mass killings.

    I get your point, but you are not quite accurate. Blacks in Japan are miniscule in population, but punch WAY above their population size in all manners of crime, including murder and rape.

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    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
    • Replies: @John Regan

    “Gee. I can’t get a gun. I guess I won’t slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river”
     
    Yes. Suicide is mostly circumstantial: people are more likely to commit suicide when they have an easy means to do so, in a cultural context where it's not heavily stigmatized and usually for reasons that are fairly arbitrary. People also show a strong preference for certain methods of suicide, either for their perceived glamor, "painlessness" or because of a desire to "act out" in a violent way. If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.
    , @AnotherDad

    Blacks in Japan are miniscule in population, but punch WAY above their population size in all manners of crime, including murder and rape.
     
    Why in God's name do the Japanese allow any black to live there?

    I understand some US sailors or soldier on leave--that's a hit they take as part of being under the US protective umbrella. But why allow any other ones? Kick them out; send 'em home.
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  165. guest says:
    @AM
    "As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Or make that hours."

    Why wouldn't it take them an hour? The call has to come in - that's zero - but it's not really zero. He would have been shooting for at least 2-3 minutes, but likely closer 5-10.

    Then you get the dispatcher at 911 who can't just send 2 nearby patrol cops out to deal with it. They need to round up a lot of people and they need to get there with enough weapons and body armor.

    And it was dark, so it wasn't obvious which floor the shots were coming from, so they started on the wrong floor, 29 to be exact when they needed to be on 32. Then they had bust in the door.

    If I got it wrong, correct me here, but I don't see 72 minutes start to finish as particularly scandalous, depending on other factors. If the police state was right next door maybe it was way too long. Don't know.

    They identified the room and a security guard was shot within 15 minutes.

    8 cops were waiting outside the door within 20 minutes.

    They then waited about 50 minutes to catch the bad guy already dead in the nick of time.

    I don’t know why SWAT wasn’t ready faster. I’d think those guys would be on standby in Vegas, with all the money. One is wonders what the point of them is if they can’t get to an “active shooter” that’s already been located within an hour.

    On the other hand, if you want to swarm a peaceful suburban neighborhood with armored personnel carriers, black helicopters, and a squad of ninjas with puppy-killing rifles and flash-bang grenades, cops are your men.

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    • Agree: Bill, fnn, Travis
    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Exactly.
    , @res
    I basically agree with your points, but my understanding is that the exterior shooting (largely?) stopped after the security guard was shot. Is that correct? If so, I think that security guard deserves significant credit for his willingness to engage and incur injury.
    , @AM

    They identified the room and a security guard was shot within 15 minutes.

    8 cops were waiting outside the door within 20 minutes.

    They then waited about 50 minutes to catch the bad guy already dead in the nick of time.
     
    I didn't see this info earlier. Thanks for the update. That last delay I can see as the problem, regardless of the actual time involved. If takes 30 minutes for the cops to get there responsibly, then that's what it is.

    The hard bit is the opinions that get slung around and I'm sitting thinking, "That doesn't look like an easy job"
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  166. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Clyde

    Testosterone levels go down with age, not up, so the fact that a man who has not mass killed in his youth but does so in his older years is a puzzle.
     
    Are we going to read that Paddock was on Prozac or similar or other legal psych drugs? Some blamed Del Shannon's suicide on Prozac.

    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect (“an increase in suicidal thoughts” or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn’t have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn’t work all the time, or some patients don’t follow the protocol.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect (“an increase in suicidal thoughts” or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn’t have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn’t work all the time, or some patients don’t follow the protocol.
     
    I have heard it claimed that anti-depressants work, essentially, by making you not care so much about things. And maybe a guy who doesn't care about much will start to not care much about his own life or the lives of others. Maybe depression - along with the caring that causes it - is just part of life, and it isn't a good idea to suppress it.
    , @ChrisZ
    A fascinating insight into something that’s puzzled me for some time. Thanks Dave.
    , @res
    There is also discussion of violence as a side effect of antidpressants: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201509/antidepressants-and-violence-link-in-search-cause
    , @Clyde
    Reports are out that Stephen Paddock was on Valium....but that stuff does not make you into a psycho killer.
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  167. anonguy says:
    @MarkinLA
    have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder,

    Many people who have many or an "obsessive" interest in guns are interested in becoming decent marksman like Gina Davis so they are not really fetishing their guns they are trying to become proficient with a tool.

    carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need

    The gun ranges carry insurance. Very few accidents happen so very few people would actually buy it and if forced to would create a huge stink. What would insurance have done in the case of a mass shooting by a nut? As for too many guns, many people have them for different purposes and don't bother getting rid of the old ones when they decide they want to compete in a different class. The people with a long history of gun use are seldom the ones doing the mass shootings anyway. This guy amassed most of his guns recently as did the San Bernardino shooter.

    Many people who have many or an “obsessive” interest in guns are interested in becoming decent marksman like Gina Davis so they are not really fetishing their guns they are trying to become proficient with a tool.

    There is a difference between being interested in guns and being interested in shooting. Its like the difference between being interested in guitars and interested in music.

    Most people have a blend, but lots of people on the poles. Me, I liked shooting but wasn’t especially interested in guns for their own sake like others I’ve known.

    Anyhow, there isn’t anything more wrong about “fetishizing” guns than there is in doing so with any other collectors item.

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  168. @Jack D
    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    Sounds like the security guard who took a bullet at the 13 minute mark was a hero.

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    • Agree: res, yyrvjh
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  169. Whiskey says: • Website

    Observations:

    1. Anti-White male slanders are only prevented by FEAR. I WANT non-Whites and those pretending to be honorary non-Whites to FEAR WHITE MEN and ticking off White men. FEAR creates respect, I could care less about being “loved” or liked or any of that garbage — only FEAR works in a multicultural world (and its great for picking up chicks too btw).

    2. Gun grabbing is all about disarming White men so they can get Reginald Denny’d at any time by Blacks, Hispanics, or Muslims. England disarmed and Muslim men raped their daughters with impunity. I would kindly suggest that Choudhary return to his native land where the camels are free and easy, and there’s a goat for every boy. “Your walking on the fighting side of me.”

    3. The shooter is almost certainly either a hard left loon “radicalized” or a Muslim convert. Hence the media blackout and “we may never know” which means we know damn well. Just don’t want to say it.

    4. White men face constant attacks, at every turn, and being unarmed and mostly alone, are easy prey as Denny was to any mob attack or attack by a larger, stronger adversary (Michael Brown). Only free men own weapons, slaves do not. Of course White Male Slavery is the #1 Agenda of the Media and non-White elite. It is vital getting back to #1 that White men are feared. It would be very good to make an example out of Professor Fox by a deep dive into his background and publicizing any and all misdeeds of himself, his family, and friends, as well as an organized drive to get his employer to fire him.

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  170. newrouter says:

    so the dude breaks 2 windows. nobody knows nothing at the hotel. the dude starts shooting, again nobody knows nothing at the hotel. no guests, no staff no body knows nothing.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I think they figured out where he was when the smoke alarm went off. It was like 13 minutes before the security guard showed up. That sounds reasonable to me.

    Though I don't know much about tracking where gunshots are coming from, nor how easy it is to hear things through the walls, floors, and ceilings of Vegas hotels.
    , @Jack D
    Who should have known what and how? Guy is locked inside his room.
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  171. @Dave Pinsen
    The longer law enforcement waits to divulge all the evidence from the hotel suite, including video the shooter allegedly took, the more I wonder if there was an ISIS connection. Withholding evidence could be a tactic to try to get ISIS to divulge more.
    https://twitter.com/polNewsInfinity/status/915307812347105280

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Interesting. Terry Nichols from the OKC bombing had a Philippines connection too.
    , @Jack D
    No and no. Next question please.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Although apparently she just landed at LAX. You'd figure if she had terrorist links she would have stayed out of dodge.
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  172. @guest
    They identified the room and a security guard was shot within 15 minutes.

    8 cops were waiting outside the door within 20 minutes.

    They then waited about 50 minutes to catch the bad guy already dead in the nick of time.

    I don't know why SWAT wasn't ready faster. I'd think those guys would be on standby in Vegas, with all the money. One is wonders what the point of them is if they can't get to an "active shooter" that's already been located within an hour.

    On the other hand, if you want to swarm a peaceful suburban neighborhood with armored personnel carriers, black helicopters, and a squad of ninjas with puppy-killing rifles and flash-bang grenades, cops are your men.

    Exactly.

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  173. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Percy Gryce
    https://twitter.com/percy_gryce/status/915423114481324032

    Interesting. Terry Nichols from the OKC bombing had a Philippines connection too.

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    • Replies: @It's All Ball Bearings
    There is that and what a McVeigh lawyer researched and wrote The Third Bomber (I think) of an Iraq connection. This Vegas job probably goes real deep.
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  174. The Mandalay Bay Hotel has an anti-gun hotel security policy:

    https://www.mandalaybay.com/content/dam/MGM/mandalay-bay/meetings/documents/mandalay-bay-meetings-convention-mb-private-security-policies-as-of-10-2012.pdf

    5. Weapons of any type (guns, knives, nightsticks, mace, pepper spray, stun guns etc.) are strictly prohibited on Mandalay Bay property. Federal, State and local law enforcement agencies may carry weapons on Mandalay Bay property in the performance of their official duties. These agencies must contact Mandalay Bay Security Management prior to arriving on property.

    The good people who obeyed the Mandalay Bay Hotel’s firearm policy were unable to return fire at the psycho Stephen Craig Paddock.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were "useless" since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    But even aside from that, what are the odds they would have been able to see the sniper and hit him accurately from the stage? It's not like the guy in the clock tower in Texas in the '60s: civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll.
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  175. The strongest argument in favour of gun control is that mass shootings are a lot less common in western countries will more restrictive gun laws. The main argument against is that some western countries with relatively liberal gun laws (such as Switzerland and Finland) don’t have many mass shootings. More restrictive gun laws might reduce mass shootings to some extent, and seem to have had some benefits in the UK Commonwealth, but to get serious results, America has to have a more proactive policy towards dealing with mentally ill males. As Ann Coulter points out, America has the lowest percentage of mentally ill males in supervised care in the western world. Liberal gun laws and liberal mental health policies are a dangerous combination.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://image.ibb.co/mnzEqb/mental_nyt_2jun04.gif

    This is taken from the NYT, June 2004. I'd really like to see a more recent chart, though I've no reason it would be markedly different.

    One possible problem for the future is that the "authorities" get to define mental illness.

    , @hyperbola
    Another Mass Shooting, Another Grab For Guns: 6 Gun Facts
    http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2017/10/another-mass-shooting-another-grab-for.html

    Nothing is more deplorable than hijacking human tragedy to push an unrelated political agenda. A mass murderer taking the lives of some 60 people in Las Vegas this week has nothing to do with the majority of lawful firearms owners in the United States who aren’t and have no intention of ever killing another human being. ....

    ..... Upon examining the following 6 facts, we will see that access to firearms has no significant relationship to violence – and that violence is driven by another entire set of factors that must be addressed if we honestly want a more peaceful and prosperous world.

    1. According to the FBI, more people die of barehanded assaults in the US per year than all rifle violence (“assault rifles” included) combined. In fact, homicide via personal weapons like hands and feet is more than double homicides carried out with rifles......

    ..... Concluding Thoughts

    All 6 facts tell us that violence is driven by socioeconomic factors, not access to firearms. If firearms drove violence, the United States would be by far the most violent nation on Earth, followed by Serbia – they are not. The UK and Japan would have roughly the same rate of homicides – they do not.

    If you truly care about a more peaceful world, address the root causes of violence – which is clearly, obviously not access to weapons. Those who intentionally stir hysteria and prey on the emotions of well-meaning people to push issues like gun control have ulterior motives – and coincidentally allow all of the actual factors that drive violence – socioeconomic disparity and destitution – to continue or even expand......
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  176. Jack D says:
    @Percy Gryce
    https://twitter.com/percy_gryce/status/915423114481324032

    No and no. Next question please.

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  177. Lugash says:
    @Jack D

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex.

     

    People who are in a profession tend to overestimate how hard it is for a dedicated amateur to do their job. The guy was very effective but what he did was not rocket science. A pro would not have told him to have a dozen guns and thousands more rounds of ammo than he really used. The guy was over-prepared in the way a dedicated amateur would overprepare.

    Strong agree. Since 9/11 is there anyone who doesn’t war game terrorist scenarios any time they’re in a public area? This guy was Charles Wittman with a better plan. No advanced training or previous experience was necessary.

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  178. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Buzz Mohawk
    White men have a lot of self-control, but they are also good at killing. If they had the self-control of blacks, every non-white person on Earth would be dead by now.

    And most whites as well.

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  179. Jack D says:
    @newrouter
    "This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. "

    sure like the va tech guy pal

    Paddock doesn’t sound Korean to me.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Paddock doesn’t sound Korean to me.
     
    Actually, I'm going to guess it doesn't look Korean to you. Most average people could probably be convinced that Padok is a Korean name, for instance.
    , @Anonymous
    The idea behind reducing the number of immigrant criminals in your society is that you'll have fewer immigrant criminals in your society. And by that token, fewer criminals overall. It doesn't mean that native-born citizens will never again commit a crime.

    You should write for the SF Chronicle, or Mother Jones.
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  180. guest says:
    @newrouter
    so the dude breaks 2 windows. nobody knows nothing at the hotel. the dude starts shooting, again nobody knows nothing at the hotel. no guests, no staff no body knows nothing.

    I think they figured out where he was when the smoke alarm went off. It was like 13 minutes before the security guard showed up. That sounds reasonable to me.

    Though I don’t know much about tracking where gunshots are coming from, nor how easy it is to hear things through the walls, floors, and ceilings of Vegas hotels.

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  181. @MarkinLA
    Even if ALL guns in private hands had to be stored in a locked safe at the gun club, what happens when criminals commit home invasion robberies where the occupants are defenseless. Who at the gun club is going to confront somebody who tries to sneak his guns out of the club?

    There are no easy questions, let alone answers.

    Any figures/statistics on how many home invasion robberies are stopped by armed occupants? I’d be intereste (not being sarcastic here, I’m interested in emprical facts on this.)

    I do remeber that mass shooting in Arizona (the Gabby Gifford one.) Arizona issues concealed weapins permts fairly easily. No civilians shot back at the shooter, the cops hanlded it by themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Polynikes
    And in Tennessee a few weeks ago, an armed citizen helped stop a shooter. Same with the church shooting in Colorado a decade or so ago.
    , @MarkinLA
    Home invasion robberies are relatively rare compared to the defensive use of guns. The problem with all those statistics is that the one number thrown about by gun advocates is 2 million defensive gun uses a year with most of them never having fired a shot to scare somebody off. The number does seem unrealistic and gun control advocates spend a lot of ink calling it a myth. The American Rifleman has a column called Armed Citizen that usually contains about 6 stories from around the country each month of somebody stopping a crime by actually using his weapon.

    There is also the issue as to what exactly is a home invasion. Is a gang busting into a drug house or a dealers house considered by the cops to be a home invasion or a gang or drug related robbery?

    Arizona has open carry but few people except out in the really rural areas do. People are usually trying to get to a safe place when shooting starts so the idea that somebody with a gun didn't immediately shoot back is probably not all that unusual.

    One thing about home invasion robberies though, once Britain outlawed most private ownership of firearms, they increased significantly so their rarity in the US might have to do with our having them.

    There has been no significant reductions in crime in either Britain or Australia after their weapons confiscation programs.
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  182. Jack D says:
    @newrouter
    so the dude breaks 2 windows. nobody knows nothing at the hotel. the dude starts shooting, again nobody knows nothing at the hotel. no guests, no staff no body knows nothing.

    Who should have known what and how? Guy is locked inside his room.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    The guest next door heard the gunshots, called the front desk, was told they were aware of a situation and that he should shelter in place.
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  183. @Twinkie

    So what if white men do commit a majority of the “mass killings” (however defined) in the US. In Japan, Japanese men commit 100% of the mass killings.
     
    I get your point, but you are not quite accurate. Blacks in Japan are miniscule in population, but punch WAY above their population size in all manners of crime, including murder and rape.

    “Gee. I can’t get a gun. I guess I won’t slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river”

    Yes. Suicide is mostly circumstantial: people are more likely to commit suicide when they have an easy means to do so, in a cultural context where it’s not heavily stigmatized and usually for reasons that are fairly arbitrary. People also show a strong preference for certain methods of suicide, either for their perceived glamor, “painlessness” or because of a desire to “act out” in a violent way. If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.

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    • Replies: @gcochran
    True.
    , @AM

    If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.
     
    This is the romanticized, "I read a novel" version of suicide.

    In real life, people think about suicide for months and even years. Do you really think this mass murder/suicide was spontaneous? One of the markers of suicidal people are strange acts like wiring money and selling houses and giving away stuff they know they aren't going to need anymore. Lots of planning.

    Everyone knows suicide is a drastic step to take. The ability to stop them even the last moments is about how terrible everyone knows suicide to be.

    Meanwhile, one of the highest suicide rates per capita is Japan, where nobody has guns. They do however all have access to knives and ropes and have culture that has history of calling suicide the right thing to do.

    It seems to me that if you want to prevent suicide, the way to do would be to call it a horrible sin against God and humanity and deny a proper public burial for all those who choose that route. There's nothing to be done but pray for the dead, but those social inclinations might give those with tenuous connection something to live for.
    , @larry lurker

    If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.
     
    A Golden Gate Bridge jumper who survived: “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”

    Another one from the same article:

    A beautiful German tourist approached, handed him her camera, and asked him to take her picture, which he did. “I was like, ‘Fuck this, nobody cares,’ ” he told me. “So I jumped.” But after he crossed the chord, he recalls, “My first thought was What the hell did I just do? I don’t want to die.”
     
    One wonders how many murder-suicide guys "snap out of it" mid-rampage, horrified at what they've just done.
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  184. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Percy Gryce
    https://twitter.com/percy_gryce/status/915423114481324032

    Although apparently she just landed at LAX. You’d figure if she had terrorist links she would have stayed out of dodge.

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  185. guest says:
    @Jack D

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex.

     

    People who are in a profession tend to overestimate how hard it is for a dedicated amateur to do their job. The guy was very effective but what he did was not rocket science. A pro would not have told him to have a dozen guns and thousands more rounds of ammo than he really used. The guy was over-prepared in the way a dedicated amateur would overprepare.

    The argument would be better if it was less amateur versus professional than crackpot versus the Dunning-Kruger effect. Because you kinda have to be overconfident to think you could pull off the greatest mass shooting in history–if that’s what he was aiming for–from a hotel room hundreds of yards away.

    If this guy is off his rocker, you might expect him to be overconfident in his abilities and overlook things that would be obvious to more knowledgeable people. I realize they were just kids, but the Columbine killers wanted to out-do Oklahoma City with their bomb, but it was a dud. They (or Eric at least) had too much confidence in their bombmaking abilities. This guy, though he overdid it, apparently knew what he was doing. Crazed amateurs aren’t known for that.

    The classic example, though I don’t know whether he was crazy, was the guy who robbed banks without any attempt at disguise besides covering himself in lemon juice. Because they use lemon juice for invisible ink, or something.

    I’m not surprised people are suspicious of this guy for not screwing up. He doesn’t have to look as foolish as the lemon juice guy or the guy in Iran who paid a wizard to make him invisible before robbing a bank. People just expect him to be less successful than he was.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.
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  186. Mr. Anon says:

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,”

    Oh, really? Black men don’t have a “feeling of entitlement”?

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    • Replies: @res
    Once you start looking for them "projection" and "who, whom" explain a vast amount of media output.
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  187. anonguy says:

    I have a question for somebody who knows.

    It sounds like this guy spent all his time on video poker, slots. Does anyone come out ahead on this? I don’t think so, but I may be wrong on the video poker stuff.

    But if this guy was good enough to survive at poker for decades, wouldn’t he have some tracks somewhere in the gaming community? Maybe did some tournament play back when or something.

    I don’t know anyone who makes their living by gambling, so someone who knows about this stuff, would be nice to hear.

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    • Replies: @dwb
    I do not make my living gambling, but am a mathematician and more often than not win in Vegas (I stick to 21, and basic card counting is pretty easy).

    In the long run, no one is going to come out "ahead" in either video poker or slots. These are not really games requiring any skill - both are random without actual human opponents. The casinos can manipulate the percentage of take up or down, and the Gaming Commission regulate and validate the numbers.

    The House is not going to set the take so that their expected value is negative.

    Video poker is not really poker in the sense that you think of it; you cannot "bluff" the machine nor raise it out of the game. It is strictly a game where you win or lose based on getting certain hands.

    Of course, in any finite number of plays, you can come out on top, but over any large number of games, you are going to lose.

    , @Yngvar
    Nbody lose money playing video slot or any other casino game. They just have to pay a fee to get entertained.
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  188. Polynikes says:
    @Anonymous
    Apparently he liked country music and went to country music concerts:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-liked-to-gamble-listened-to-country-music-lived-quiet-retired-life-before-massacre

    In the final years of his life, Stephen Paddock was living out his retirement in quiet obscurity. He liked country music, relatives said, and went to concerts like the Route 91 Harvest festival where he killed so many Sunday night.
     

    Makes me think even more that he was a lefty. Probably was disgusted by the amount of Trump and pro America stuff he was increasingly seeing at these concerts.

    Just conjecture, tho

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  189. anonguy says:
    @Jack D
    Paddock doesn't sound Korean to me.

    Paddock doesn’t sound Korean to me.

    Actually, I’m going to guess it doesn’t look Korean to you. Most average people could probably be convinced that Padok is a Korean name, for instance.

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  190. Polynikes says:
    @LeftLawyer
    @MarkinLA Any figures/statistics on how many home invasion robberies are stopped by armed occupants? I'd be intereste (not being sarcastic here, I'm interested in emprical facts on this.)

    I do remeber that mass shooting in Arizona (the Gabby Gifford one.) Arizona issues concealed weapins permts fairly easily. No civilians shot back at the shooter, the cops hanlded it by themselves.

    And in Tennessee a few weeks ago, an armed citizen helped stop a shooter. Same with the church shooting in Colorado a decade or so ago.

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  191. Big Bill says:
    @Jack D
    There's an old saying that "hard cases make bad law". The most common type of shooting in America, by far, is black people shooting other black people one or two at a time. Of course these shootings don't make the front pages. They get listed in the police blotter on p.6 of the local paper:

    A 6-year-old boy was shot and wounded in North Philadelphia. It happened around 7:50 p.m. Friday near 24th and Norris streets. The child was taken by police and rushed to Temple University Hospital, where he is listed in stable condition. The shooter remains at large. There is no immediate word on a motive.
     
    Repeat every day in every big city thousands of time each year.

    So some kind of worthwhile gun control, if such a thing was possible in the US (it isn't) would focus on those kind of shootings and not the rare white guy who goes postal.

    The problem for liberals is that they don’t want to arrest black shooters. They want all guns to magically and mysteriously disappear. There are tons of black folks that could be sent to prison under state and federal gun charges for being felons in possession of a firearm, armed robbery, brandishing, etc. But if they did that, the black and white liberal communities would start yammering about the school-to-prison pipeline, second chances and the like.

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  192. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Buffalo Joe
    Sad state of affairs when the MSM looks for ways to delineate homicides based on race. In the last three years Chicago has had about 1900 homicides, mostly, actually, almost all, black on black crimes. The number of wounded is probably five times the number of homicides. Think about those numbers, those are WWII battle field numbers. In Cleveland, a black woman had the temerity to honk her horn at a car that was blocking the street, on 25th Street, IIRC. Finally, she managed to make her way around the car. According to police, the car proceeded to follow her onto the I-90 East toward a 90 degree turn called Dead Man's Curve. As she slowed to maneuver through the curve, the car pulled alongside and blasted her van with multiple shots. Her son was shot in the head! Think about that! She "disrespected" some black POS and he shot up her van. Cleveland, two years ago, had a five year old boy, a three year old boy and a five month old girl, all shot and killed. The perps were all black, I am not defending any murder, but enough with the world's greatest problem is white men.

    Sad state of affairs when the MSM looks for ways to delineate homicides based on race.

    Not really. They may be opening a door they really want to keep closed.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Anonymous, to quote the NFL, upon further review, you may be quite right my friend.
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  193. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Front toward enemy
    I guess the take away is: people of color should relocate away from white people. Whites are very scary indeed. I'm ok with that.

    And yet they flock toward us, worldwide.
    Like moths to a flame, God willing..

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  194. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect ("an increase in suicidal thoughts" or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn't have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn't work all the time, or some patients don't follow the protocol.

    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect (“an increase in suicidal thoughts” or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn’t have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn’t work all the time, or some patients don’t follow the protocol.

    I have heard it claimed that anti-depressants work, essentially, by making you not care so much about things. And maybe a guy who doesn’t care about much will start to not care much about his own life or the lives of others. Maybe depression – along with the caring that causes it – is just part of life, and it isn’t a good idea to suppress it.

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  195. Mr. Anon says:

    It turns out that the killer was a postal-worker for a time back in the 70s.

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  196. @Randal

    Neither argument sounded particularly convincing.
     
    Perhaps not to someone who has a visceral fear of guns like yourself, probably, to judge from your "people are too screwed up to be trusted with them" comment. But for the hard headed grownups amongst us, the latter point is objectively correct (see numerous reports from the US debate over the past few decades), and the former is logically incontrovertible.

    Local gun laws seem to have been effective in preventing mass shootings
     
    At the cost of infantilising the population and rendering them helpless in the face of criminals with guns, or just bigger and stronger criminals.

    And the reality is that the cost of mass shootings is trivial in national terms - depending upon the definition they account for a few tens to a few hundreds of deaths per year in the US. There were 15,000 homicides in the US in 2015. The inevitable panicky insistence on banning guns in response to the latest incident is sentimental hysteria or cynical opportunism.

    In truth, taking out the US's particular problem with murderous violence in its black ghettos, its overall rate of deaths from guns would easily be a price more than worth paying for the benefits of having guns available to ordinary people to protect their homes and families, even if it were all attributable to its gun liberty.

    WeWe also have violent black and minority urban underclasses in the UK. The lack of freely available guns means they need to stick to knives and blunt instruments to perpetuate gang warfare.

    The result is that the UK, with a population of 66 million has about 500 to 600 homicides per year. Of those, about 6 to 10% are carried out by guns. Chicago by contrast had over 700 homicides in 2016, a city with a population of less than 3m. London with a population close to 9 million and a similar proportion of whites to Chicago usually has between 150 to 200 annually.

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    • Replies: @prole
    33% of the residents of Chicago are Black

    9% of London is Black
    , @MarkinLA
    Yeah, ask the IRA about the British laws keeping guns out of the hands of people who really want them.
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  197. @Jack D
    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American.

    What evidence have you seen for that?

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  198. @Jack D
    Who should have known what and how? Guy is locked inside his room.

    The guest next door heard the gunshots, called the front desk, was told they were aware of a situation and that he should shelter in place.

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  199. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT: Latest chapter of the Russiagate saga:

    (CNN) A number of Russian-linked Facebook ads specifically targeted Michigan and Wisconsin, two states crucial to Donald Trump’s victory last November, according to four sources with direct knowledge of the situation.

    Some of the Russian ads appeared highly sophisticated in their targeting of key demographic groups in areas of the states that turned out to be pivotal, two of the sources said. The ads employed a series of divisive messages aimed at breaking through the clutter of campaign ads online, including promoting anti-Muslim messages, sources said. …

    One person with direct knowledge of the matter said that some of the ads were aimed at reaching voters who may be susceptible to anti-Muslim messages, even suggesting that Muslims were a threat to the American way of life.

    Highlighting unpopular policy positions of a political candidate is a threat to democracy.

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    • Replies: @guest
    God, deliver us from the tyranny of Facebook ads, which we now know can swing national elections.

    By the way, how is it possible to have an electoral ad that isn't "divisive?" Unless they're going for the extreme version of the soft pitch, it has to be promoting one candidate or another. You never see: "Show up on Election Day and vote for whomever you want, I don't really care," outside Rock the Vote, or something. (You know they secretly care, admittedly.)

    I know, I know, they're using the "unity is everyone agreeing with us" ploy. A little dissidence is okay, like disagreeing on which foreign country to bomb. But you better watch it, mister. No unapproved messaging. Because they still own the frame, dangit, and that Overton Window ain't budgin'!

    , @MarkinLA
    Of course, just all that double secret information from the CIA and NSA that we will never see, the offending ads will never be broadcast so that we can decide for ourselves what is so offending and if it would have mattered at all.
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  200. Why is acting “entitled” an accusation I’ve only ever heard directed at whites?

    It is said that whites have a “sense of entitlement.”
    Meanwhile, blacks actually get entitlements, at the expense of whites.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    "Entitlement" is a poorly chosen, provocative word, but I think there's a germ of a legitimate point being made there: when a white guy ends up broke and out of work, it's probably more of a psychological blow to him than it would be to a black guy.
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  201. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dnought
    Yeah it all depends on the date you choose. Seems to be much more common for non whites in the last 10 years or so.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/die-versity-64-of-last-25-mass-shooters-were-ethnically-diverse/

    And as others have said earlier, even 52% is less than the percentage of white males to total males over that period so shouldn't the question be different?

    So sick of media idiocy. Scares me a lot more than mass shooters, frankly.

    So sick of media idiocy. Scares me a lot more than mass shooters, frankly.

    Does a lot more damage, too. Wrecks societies and nations.

    But it’s not idiocy–it’s deliberate and conscious, repeatedly and consistently connecting means with ends.

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  202. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Virtually every major news outlet in America is now carrying some version of this same story.

    White men with guns are America’s real terrorists

    The fact Paddock was an average white male – very much the typical profile for a shooter in America, by the way – points to the darker, ongoing truth, one that speaks to white privilege…

    Mark Morford has been providing hyper-literate, award-winning commentary and cultural criticism to the San Francisco Chronicle and SFGate since 1998. He’s also one of the Bay Area’s premier yoga instructors, leading classes, workshops and retreats in SF and around the world since 2001.

    http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/White-men-with-guns-are-America-s-real-12246941.php

    This is one of several I found which links to the Mother Jones story.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm not a white man, but if I was, I think all these articles would come close to inciting me to provide them with a living demonstration of what the world would be like if their fantasies were true.
    , @Anonymous
    Could someone please post these articles?
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  203. map says:

    You can tell it’s a lie when it is written by a leftist rag like Mother Jones.

    The worst massacre in the US was Waco, Texas, when the FBI massacred 76 Branch Davidians for the crime of minding their own business.

    Waco, Ruby Ridge and the rise of Antifa, with lefty shooters like the one in Las Vegas, are the reasons why you never allow gun control. You can have a school or a concert shooting every day and I would not consider anything less than mandatory concealed carry with a full auto rifle in the trunk of every car.

    Let’s understand that gun control is a fifty year old issue and leftists have proven to be nothing more than dishonest counter-parties in this whole debate. Their agenda is to disarm you so they can do bad things to you that they could not otherwise do if you are heavily armed. For example, through Antifa, Leftists want to control the street with mob violence. Mobs are much more difficult to find volunteers for if there is a chance of being offed by an armed civilian. But take away those guns and the Left could have Antifa at your home attacking your family as soon as they find you saying something offensive.

    Do you really want to be disarmed with this sort of situation looming? Absolutely not.

    Molon Labe.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Kylie
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  204. Moses says:

    Yes, and what is the rate of attacks per White Man? Rate of kills per White Man? How do these compare to rates from other groups?

    Journalists are depressingly innumerate.

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    • Replies: @Kylie
    "Journalists are depressingly innumerate."

    Even worse, they're also despicably disingenuous.
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  205. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @unpc downunder
    The strongest argument in favour of gun control is that mass shootings are a lot less common in western countries will more restrictive gun laws. The main argument against is that some western countries with relatively liberal gun laws (such as Switzerland and Finland) don't have many mass shootings. More restrictive gun laws might reduce mass shootings to some extent, and seem to have had some benefits in the UK Commonwealth, but to get serious results, America has to have a more proactive policy towards dealing with mentally ill males. As Ann Coulter points out, America has the lowest percentage of mentally ill males in supervised care in the western world. Liberal gun laws and liberal mental health policies are a dangerous combination.


    This is taken from the NYT, June 2004. I’d really like to see a more recent chart, though I’ve no reason it would be markedly different.

    One possible problem for the future is that the “authorities” get to define mental illness.

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  206. anonguy says:

    Eric Paddock just gave another interview, about a half hour long.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooter-brother-speaks-again/

    I’m still really curious about this gambling thing. Eric is very sketchy about how his brother succeeded at gambling. Slots? C’mon, does anyone make a living at that?

    Also very cagey about how he and his brother made all their dough. Very cagey on any details, really.

    He says his brother made his living gambling. But at the same time, his brother was super deluxe club star status at all the casinos. Would they be doing this for someone who was consistently beating the system on slots?

    Sounds fishy. Really, think about it, his brother made Eric and his mother as well very wealthy. By playing the slots?

    So, maybe the gambling is money laundering end of something?

    You guys know I”m pretty good about smelling a rat.

    And Eric seemed to know about bump stocks, like everyone has a few of these lying around the house, maybe gathering dust after trying it out once or twice.

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    • Agree: Coemgen, Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Got the impression he didn't have much to do with his brother anyway, but he did seem to be dodging things though.

    Yes his moving around, large bank balance, gambling, planes and criminal father all raise issues. Sounds a stereotypical CIA drug runner, a Barry Seal/David Ferrie type.
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  207. map says:

    http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/uid/LAbNFEtv/

    http://archive.is/aVnvk

    From a guy calling himself John on /pol/ on Sep 10:
    look i feel bad for some of you on this website. so i’ll let you in on a little secret. if you live in las vegas or henderson stay inside tomorrow. don’t go anywhere where there are large groups of people. also if you see three blacks vans parked next to each other immediately leave the area. you’re welcome

    just stay away. go to arizona if you can. they won’t bother you in arizona.

    to clarify i won’t be doing anything to harm anyone. i’m not a killer and i never will be one.

    it’s called the “high incident project”. they want to make the american public think that places with extremely high security aren’t safe. they are trying to create more regulations. you will see laws proposed within the next few years to put up more metal detectors and other security devices. media and politicians will be saying places with lots of police need even more police. i can’t guarantee anything will happen tomorrow but las vegas is on their minds.

    if their plan is successful state of nevada will pass a law in the future making all casinos have mandatory metal detectors and backscatter machines. soon after a federal law will be passed to put these machines in universities, high schools, federal buildings, you name it. osi systems and chertoff are the main producers of these machines. sometime around 2020 chertoff and osi will merge into a single company. after they merge the owners will sell off all their stock and make billions in profit. mr chertoff has been in contact with sheldon adelson. mr adelson will become a huge sponsor of these machines and he will be the first to put them in his casinos when the law passes. this is my last message for now. don’t expect me to return anytime soon

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  208. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Paddock doesn't sound Korean to me.

    The idea behind reducing the number of immigrant criminals in your society is that you’ll have fewer immigrant criminals in your society. And by that token, fewer criminals overall. It doesn’t mean that native-born citizens will never again commit a crime.

    You should write for the SF Chronicle, or Mother Jones.

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  209. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Joe Franklin
    The Mandalay Bay Hotel has an anti-gun hotel security policy:

    https://www.mandalaybay.com/content/dam/MGM/mandalay-bay/meetings/documents/mandalay-bay-meetings-convention-mb-private-security-policies-as-of-10-2012.pdf

    5. Weapons of any type (guns, knives, nightsticks, mace, pepper spray, stun guns etc.) are strictly prohibited on Mandalay Bay property. Federal, State and local law enforcement agencies may carry weapons on Mandalay Bay property in the performance of their official duties. These agencies must contact Mandalay Bay Security Management prior to arriving on property.

     

    The good people who obeyed the Mandalay Bay Hotel's firearm policy were unable to return fire at the psycho Stephen Craig Paddock.

    http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Mandalay-Bay-weapons-policy-600x96.jpg

    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were “useless” since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    But even aside from that, what are the odds they would have been able to see the sniper and hit him accurately from the stage? It’s not like the guy in the clock tower in Texas in the ’60s: civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were “useless” since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.
     
    Then he's retarded, because this situation was sui generis and doesn't represent the overwhelming majority of mass shootings/spree shootings.

    Just because you can't effectively counter a well-planned ambush doesn't mean that a firearm wouldn't be useful in multiple other scenarios.
    , @27 year old
    Some internet people dug up that guys post history and he has in fact been advocating for gun control for a long time. Not a flip. Usual fake news and lies from the (((media))).

    Just like the lie that there is no political motive.
    , @bomag

    civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll
     
    Returning fire is one of the first principles on the battlefield.

    I'm wondering if the police spooled up any counter-fire.

    , @Joe Franklin
    Armed audience members that shot back might have pinned down Paddock until someone could get closer for a better shot.

    Pinning down Paddock with return fire might also have intimidated Paddock enough so that he couldn't shoot as many people as he did.

    Other non-concert people in the hotel might have returned fire too if they too weren't also hindered by the hotel's no-gun policy.

    Business gun prohibition policies only stop honest people.

    Cops didn't arrive to the party until it was way too late, which negates the musician's phony claims.

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  210. 1661er says:
    @Clark Westwood

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. “They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It’s a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you’re a member of a group that hasn’t historically experienced unemployment, there’s a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have.”
     
    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can't take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    Not mentioned there is that straight, able-bodied white men who are pissed because they got fired can’t take their revenge in the peaceable, lawful form of an EEOC complaint and lawsuit.

    Remember there were some news reporting about Social Security Administration was ordering large quantity of hallow point bullets?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011107040.html

    One group of workers for whom threats are an increasing problem are Social Security employees, especially the agency’s administrative law judges.

    They are also very concerned about people who may or may not be able-bodied. Since SSDI had became the default safety net early-retirement for so many people.

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  211. anonguy says:

    Ok, I’m calling it. The gambling is/was money laundering.

    The whole focus on electronic gambling, Eric said something, almost rote-like as if it were something drilled into his head by his brother, about how you always had to have tthat card inserted and gaining points.

    It was a slip, and given all the other anomalous stuff, like playing slots professionally for decades to create great family wealth consistently while all the casinos roll out the red carpet for you?

    No trace of this guy in any pro gambler stuff, just a guy working the low level electronic stuff, laundering money. His brother said it was work and probably really was.

    Other smoke signals have been Eric’s guardedness about “everything is a public record”. That is a pretty lawyerly defense. Beyond that, he’s allowed very little at all other than they made a lot of dough through a gambling career without much other details.

    Worth watching the video of the interview.

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  212. Romanian says: • Website
    @Coemgen
    Why skip past the 1st Amendment to infringe on the 2nd?

    Let's first stop interpreting the 1st in a broad "liberal" manner.

    Let "freedom of the press" be exactly what it states. That is, it only applies to the output of a printing press.

    Let "freedom of speech" be exactly what it states. That is, it only applies to the the sounds from one's mouth to another's ear.

    Electronic transmission of speach or printing would not be free in this case.

    The violent training programs (video games, movies, etc.) would no longer be freely available to teach the "Stephen Paddocks of the world" how to kill.

    So I can say whatever I want in a padded room, as in Communist times, when dissidents were pathologized? Speech without transmission is meaningless in a mass society.

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    • Replies: @Coemgen
    The 2nd Amendment weakens "the government" thereby making it less likely that dissidents are imprisoned.

    Anyhow, strict gun laws absolutely do not prevent mass shootings by government forces.
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  213. Romanian says: • Website
    @LeftLawyer
    I've always thought that there are certain crimes which are mental illness driven and therefore no racial or ethnic groups are overrepresented - this includes mass shootings, child molestation (and most sex crimes except for adult rape), kidnapping of children, and perhaps others.

    Unfortunately, the discussion about gun control is warped by how people feel about guns.

    I think there should be a two-part analysis. First, are there things can be done re gun control that would reduce these mass shootings? Second. if the answer is yes, are we, as a society, willing to do whatever that is?

    These are two distinct questions. Presumably we could do what they did in Australia and that would work - but, even without the 2nd Amendment, I doubt that a majority of Americans would want to do that. Perhaps there is something we could do that is effective short of what they do in Australia. I have no idea if there is, and certainly the public debate is never framed in terms of effectiveness.

    Isn’t the distribution of mental disease also a subject of race differences, just as it is for sex differences? For instance, the distribution of psychopaths.

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  214. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Harry Baldwin
    Why is acting "entitled" an accusation I've only ever heard directed at whites?

    It is said that whites have a "sense of entitlement."
    Meanwhile, blacks actually get entitlements, at the expense of whites.

    “Entitlement” is a poorly chosen, provocative word, but I think there’s a germ of a legitimate point being made there: when a white guy ends up broke and out of work, it’s probably more of a psychological blow to him than it would be to a black guy.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    N0t really (see below) but Paddock in any event didn't fit that description.

    A white guy who is broke and out of work is more likely to figure out a way to get back to work rather than just become homeless.
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  215. gcochran says:
    @John Regan

    “Gee. I can’t get a gun. I guess I won’t slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river”
     
    Yes. Suicide is mostly circumstantial: people are more likely to commit suicide when they have an easy means to do so, in a cultural context where it's not heavily stigmatized and usually for reasons that are fairly arbitrary. People also show a strong preference for certain methods of suicide, either for their perceived glamor, "painlessness" or because of a desire to "act out" in a violent way. If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.

    True.

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  216. LondonBob says:

    When will the FBI let us know if he was a leftie radicalised by CNN or a recent convert radicalised by IS?

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  217. @anony-mouse
    Males make up the vast majority of mass killers.

    Males make up the vast majority of Unz.com writers and commenters.

    Correlation doesn't mean causation, but still...

    Males make up the vast majority of Wiki editors and Guardian commenters, too. Not to mention people who tinker with electronics, write code, or put flared wheel arches on cars.

    I’ve seen reports that the perp had attended anti-Trump demos. Any truth in that?

    BBC news (for what that’s worth) reported this morning that he’d bought his weapons “over a period of months”. What suddenly triggered that? Was it post-inauguration?

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  218. bomag says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Is that a traditional insult?

    POS is widely used. It is most commonly applied to inanimate objects: “this microwave is a POS”; “my car is a POS”.

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  219. ChrisZ says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect ("an increase in suicidal thoughts" or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn't have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn't work all the time, or some patients don't follow the protocol.

    A fascinating insight into something that’s puzzled me for some time. Thanks Dave.

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  220. @Dave Pinsen
    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were "useless" since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    But even aside from that, what are the odds they would have been able to see the sniper and hit him accurately from the stage? It's not like the guy in the clock tower in Texas in the '60s: civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll.

    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were “useless” since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    Then he’s retarded, because this situation was sui generis and doesn’t represent the overwhelming majority of mass shootings/spree shootings.

    Just because you can’t effectively counter a well-planned ambush doesn’t mean that a firearm wouldn’t be useful in multiple other scenarios.

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  221. bomag says:
    @Jack D
    As Steve (or was it Derb) has said: a wall around your country means you need fewer walls within it.

    This guy was a pure bred Yankee Doodle American. What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    What would a wall around the country do in this case?

    They are riffing on security in general. If we screen people at entrances; such as country entrances or hotel entrances; then we don’t have to be suspicious of every single stranger around us.

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  222. Escher says:

    He was very likely on psychiatric meds (like the Batman shooter). Amazing how the media continues to ignore the role these medications play in twisting the mind.
    Americans’ propensity to medicate their worries away is a huge problem.

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  223. @Dave Pinsen
    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were "useless" since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    But even aside from that, what are the odds they would have been able to see the sniper and hit him accurately from the stage? It's not like the guy in the clock tower in Texas in the '60s: civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll.

    Some internet people dug up that guys post history and he has in fact been advocating for gun control for a long time. Not a flip. Usual fake news and lies from the (((media))).

    Just like the lie that there is no political motive.

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  224. @Daniel Chieh
    Is that a traditional insult?

    It’s Hebrew slang derived from Yiddish “Ah shtik dreck” or “Ah shtik tinef” which mean a p.o.s.

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  225. TheJester says:
    @AndrewR
    Does this guy honestly think that blacks "don't have a feeling of entitlement"??? Blacks on average have a MUCH higher sense of entitlement than whites.

    Ethnic populations on the “outside looking in” are usually the ones with an overbearing sense of entitlement. They tend not to understand how those who “have” have acquired what they have. They don’t see the hard work and, therefore, tend to believe the SWPL are “gifted” to them. This is expressed in the simple, often-heard demand, “I want to own what you own.”

    Cameos ….

    We were visiting German friends in Germany when the phone rang. It was from a couple they knew in East Germany; they had escaped to Hungary and were en route to Germany. Our friends sponsored them in their small village. They arranged an apartment, household furniture, and jobs. This soon went sour. The couple did not want to work for the finer things of life. They wanted it given to them. This sentiment turned into demands. Besides, as the man said, he did not want to paint houses; the work was too hard. In short time, the village gave up on them.

    More recently, an older black man confronted a group of white youth protesting something or other in the deep South. The video hit the mainstream. In the video, the black is forthright in expressing his entitlement, “I want to own what you own.” That is, what was “gifted” to you I want “gifted” to me, too.

    I once commented on the Unz Review that I sensed that blacks behave as they do since they perceive that SWPL are “gifted to whites. A black commenter agreed. He said that he believed that in his youth until he became a professional and learned how hard white people worked for what they have. He said it was all in the detail … and whites were to blame because they made it all look so easy. Whites were evidently fooling blacks by making acquiring the good things in life look like “gifting”.

    I have first-hand experience with another group of people who believe they are entitled … and that is Muslims. They are entitled because the SWPL (which includes their oil) are “gifted” to them by Allah as a reward for being Muslim. They do not have to do anything to earn them. I lived and worked in the Middle East for a decade. Muslims expressed this sentiment to me on numerous occasions. Hence, it is an open question whether the masses of Muslims streaming into the European welfare states will ever work. Why should they as they await “Allah’s gifts”? Indeed, they have no reciprocal obligations to European society. The fact the infidels took them in was the hand of Allah at work in rewarding them for their Islamic piety.

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  226. bomag says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were "useless" since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    But even aside from that, what are the odds they would have been able to see the sniper and hit him accurately from the stage? It's not like the guy in the clock tower in Texas in the '60s: civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll.

    civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll

    Returning fire is one of the first principles on the battlefield.

    I’m wondering if the police spooled up any counter-fire.

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  227. Yak-15 says:
    @Neoconned
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-article-1.1221062

    They aren't more common Steve. There were a lot more in the early 20th century.

    And in the recent era they peaked in the 80s and 90s and in particular the late 1990s. Theyve actually been on the decline.

    The 24/7 media didnt exist twenty yrs ago and gins this crap up to get ratings.

    That and the gun grabbers and police unions are pushing this narrative.

    The gun grabbers for obvious reasons and the cops/prison sector because they've created a police state w the largest convict population on the planet that's consuming an insane portiom of GDP.

    That and the fact violent crime is way down since the mid 1990s and they have to scare up fake crime trends to retain their jobs and pensions.

    If more Americans and especially right wingers realized this therewould be credible calls for a 30-60pc reduction in prison slash court slash law enforcement employment and these peoplr would have to compete with honest work like the rest of us broke peons.

    Have you ever considered that mass incarceration/law enforcement are why crime has declined since the 1970s and major cities are liveable again? Surely locking up criminals during their prime crime committing years has contributed zero. . .

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  228. @Twinkie

    I support stronger gun control
     
    Then women like you don't have to have any. It's a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don't get in the way of MY gun ownership.

    Then women like you don’t have to have any. It’s a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don’t get in the way of MY gun ownership.

    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    But the real question is to what extent can life as we know it be allowed to deteriorate from what it once was? Conservatism, by definition, is about slowing change and preserving what is good.

    Terrorism has already profoundly impacted several areas of American life, for example air travel has become a nightmare of security rigmaroles, and even long distance bus travel cannot be done now without producing some kind of government ID. Schools are surrounded by chain link fences and patrolled by guards, and often have police officers within the school. Most government buildings and courthouses demand that people turn out their pockets, subject themselves to scans and pat downs, and so on. People are searched on entering sports events and musical concerts.

    Supposing the situation continues to deteriorate and people stop going to public events, which are now played to empty stadiums and only shown on TV, as happened with a Barcelona soccer match last week.

    Supposing government security in areas of the US breaks down to the extent that de facto rule by rival warlords and their armed supporters is the case in large areas of territory? This may seem fanciful, but there are already areas where criminal gangs stake out “territories” that they defend from each other, and in fact internecine gang warfare is probably already the cause of a substantial number of shooting deaths in certain cities.

    Is the ONLY answer that we all need to sit at home with our families behind bulletproof walls with gunports facing the street on each house and defend ourselves with our own weapons? There is a saying that every man’s home is his castle, but is this supposed to be figurative or literal?

    Or is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk of dying by bomb or gunfire at home or in the streets, or public and commercial spaces?

    The way many people see it, we are doomed by our immutable Constitution and its Amendments, so perhaps the only answer is a new American Revolution and a new Constitution for modern times that contains new rights for We The People.

    It would be strange if a revolution was the only conservative solution, but when a Constitution becomes fossilized, it might be the only way to break the mold.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).
     
    Why do you choose the deliberately incendiary term "fetish?" You're just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors. Do you have a government fetish? A strong Daddy fetish? A nanny fetish? Do you like to have your bottom powdered and a diaper applied to you by frumpy older women? Or do you have a legitimate and reasoned point to make?
    , @Chrisnonymous

    is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk...?
     
    Women like you just don't understand Twinkie's and my country.
    , @Jack D
    Paddock was obviously an exception (BTW, his brother said that he was NOT into guns until obviously recently), but in most cases the kind of guys who collect (or, if you wish, fetish) guns are the LEAST likely to actually use them in a criminal way. Men, especially, have some kind of impulse to collect stuff - some people collect stamps, art, cars, etc. and some people focus their collecting on guns. And not just guns but all of the accessories, etc. And just like some car collectors leave their cars in the garage and other take them out on the road, some gun collectors like to actually shoot their guns. Usually these are the guys who are MOST careful about gun safety. If you are around guns a lot and are NOT careful about safety then you are going to win a Darwin Award so the ones who are around are the ones who are careful - it's like the old saying about pilots - there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old, bold pilots.

    Now of course guys like this have tunnel vision about guns. Guns are the best thing since sliced bread. They are protected by the Constitution, they are the only thing standing between us and tyranny. Don't go infringing MY gun rights. You are never going to convince people like this that the broader society has needs and issues that may outweigh their own interests. This is one of the problems with democracy - if you have an issue that 10 out of 100 people feel passionately about and 90 out of 100 people are either indifferent or mildly opposed to the 10, the 10 are going to prevail because they are the ones who are going to make noise, write their congressman, donate, etc.

    Now gun ownership really IS protected by the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has rightly recognized that Constitutional rights are not absolute. Freedom of the press does not include freedom to libel. The government has the right to enact reasonable regulations to balance the rights of gun owners against the rights of the broader society not to get massacred by madmen. It strikes me that a device that enables you to shoot 100s rounds/second and circumvent the laws against ownership of automatic weapons should not be legal, but that's just me.

    , @MarkinLA
    Schools are surrounded by chain link fences and patrolled by guards, and often have police officers within the school.

    This pre-dates terrorism and probably has a lot more to do with our immigration and integration policies which allowed previously all white schools to be loaded up with black and Hispanic gang members like what happened to my old high school.

    Or is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk of dying by bomb or gunfire at home or in the streets, or public and commercial spaces?

    Yes, become a lot like the USSR or PRC.

    , @TWS
    So clearly you haven't read the constitution or been paying attention to any of U.S. history. When I was a boy high school kids had rifles in the back of the car or truck. Some of them had their competition rifle or pistol which they'd take to the range with their team after school.

    Something changed about America and it wasn't the guns. We now live in a low trust society. Still doesn't change the constitution. If you want to try an amendment, go ahead. No one is stopping you from gathering signatures or lobbying congresses. Law abiding gun owners aren't antifa, no-one is going to break up your meetings with hammers and sticks or try to get your permits pulled for your gatherings.

    You're not doing it that way because you know you can't. Americans guard their freedom at the ballot box. So you want courts or law makers to try and give American freedom the death of a thousand cuts or hope for a authoritarian nanny state judge to rule for you.

    No. You're hyperbolic in your rhetoric and moronic in your arguments. We won't give up our rights and you can go live in the gun free nation of Mexico where there is one gun store and almost zero legally owned guns. Or England or France.
    , @guest
    That fossilized U.S. Constitution, containing the outdated individual right to keep arms, which somehow escaped notice for *70 years* between the Miller and Heller decisions. I'm not sure whether it's still not been "incorporated" along with the rest of the approved rights.

    Shall we ever break free from the suspended animation of *9 years* of the tyranny of Smelly Old Man Constitution?

    It's like we're living in the Handmaid's Tale, or something.

    You're right, essentially "conservatism" means advocating revolution because a statistically miniscule number of deaths in the country frighten you personally. It's not like any means of Constitutional amendment short of revolution were provided for.

    Nor that courts routinely pull judicial decisions out of their asses, and therefore couldn't change their minds on the *9-year* Reign of Endless Terror.

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Supposing government security in areas of the US breaks down to the extent that de facto rule by rival warlords and their armed supporters is the case in large areas of territory?
     
    The only reason for the circumstance you describe is that this is what the Left has prescribed.

    If the government wanted to reverse the urban insecurity and assure urban security in all, and by that I mean each and every, urban area, they could do so before the end of the month.

    There is a reason that the SPLC, the ACLU, the Anti-Defamation League and the rest of the taxpayer-Soros-Libtard caucus funds BLM. It is a pretense to take our guns, and give us the Hobson's Choice between slavery and the Gulag.

    So all your false-dilemma sophistry about pretenses to ensure that we are defenseless don't just ring hollow, they demonstrate your allegiance.

    Maybe you are not a Leftist. Maybe you are stupid (I know, it's hard to believe) or maybe you are a well-intentioned pathway-to-Hell paver, but whatever your defects are, it is clear your allegiance is with the enemy.

    Your Sarumanic pronouncements are duly noted. Repent, or accept your legitimate consignment to the cohort hostis humani generis.
    , @Twinkie

    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).
     
    You are right - I was wrong to cast aspersions on the fairer sex by comparing womanfolk to you. I know many women who are not prone to limp-wristed reasoning like yours and don't deserve to have their mettle maligned thusly.

    There are many reasons, legal and practical, why we Americans have the right to keep and bear arms, and why the U.S. Constitution expressly recognizes (not gives) that natural right. But I have a sense that none of those reasons no matter how rational will persuade you from your pre-determined ideas about guns. You made up your mind and don't want to be confused by facts.

    So go be a sheep somewhere else.
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  229. Silva says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    White men have a lot of self-control, but they are also good at killing. If they had the self-control of blacks, every non-white person on Earth would be dead by now.

    Not endorsing (or rejecting) a racialist hypothesis (but the same could be said culturally): if whites had the self-control of blacks, they wouldn’t be good at killing.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    Good point, Silva, but why not endorse a racialist hypothesis? Study up. You will discover that it is scientific fact.

    Accepting the truth does not mean closing your mind to individual variation. Every breed of man has a distribution of traits, with tails at each end. When we speak of the racial truth, we are talking about averages, large numbers.

    The inability or unwillingness of most people to understand large numbers vs. individual cases is one reason why we can't seem to get anywhere with this argument. People think we're rotten bastards just for stating what is observable in groups; they ignore how we respond to individuals. Many of our opponents, indoctrinated and preoccupied with goodthink, are unable to comprehend this difference.

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  230. Paddock did this for a reason. What motivates mass shooters nowadays is politics, Islam ( which overlaps significantly with politics ), alienation/resentment and mental illness. Of these, politics is the most likely.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    I would agree with that, too - politics. There is chatter about Paddock being a liberal (anti-gun, anti-Trump, etc.) He also did not pursue the typical conservative lifestyle: family, regular job...instead he relied on gambling & real estate as his main source of income....hung out with an Asian casino employee for years; who he carefully sent away and wired money to. He may have been a typical liberal who bucked normie life, and lived in Sin City....and, even if his brother said he went to concerts like the one he shot-up, it seems strange that he would amass this collection of guns, set himself up kill so efficiently.

    And, attacking the country music festival was an odd choice since I saw mostly white people there; and, as the msm is stereotyping the crowd incessantly, possible Trump voters? The media is trying to, too petulantly, to make a connection with the demographic of the audience, and, to state: "yup, another crazy, white, gun-loving guy - psycho." You had to have extreme hate in your heart to shoot all those mostly, young people, or mature people, many women. So, what could have triggered such anger?

    I can't get it out of my head that he was paid a fee for this...a massive one, and one that the GF will eventually receive, perhaps years from now, electronically somewhere. I also can't get it out of my head that someone in the hotel knew in advance. And, the fact that the FBI, and the police dept are so evasive and strange in their behavior...leaked photos of the guns, etc., an obvious note on the table.

    Another idea I have: maybe he had recently gotten bad health news - maybe he was terminal. I know someone, a senior citizen, who shot himself in the mouth, not wanting to put his family through it...even though they are still suffering more from the gruesome image. And, if he was terminal, could he have copped the attitude: "well, this will start the push for gun control," which may have been something he felt could be a legacy since he had no children? He was not an NRA member, and, next week there is a big gun event in Vegas.

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  231. Coemgen says:
    @Romanian
    So I can say whatever I want in a padded room, as in Communist times, when dissidents were pathologized? Speech without transmission is meaningless in a mass society.

    The 2nd Amendment weakens “the government” thereby making it less likely that dissidents are imprisoned.

    Anyhow, strict gun laws absolutely do not prevent mass shootings by government forces.

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    • Replies: @Coemgen

    October 3, 2017 at 9:40 pm GMT • 100 Words
    ...
    Why skip past the 1st Amendment to infringe on the 2nd?

    Let’s first stop interpreting the 1st in a broad “liberal” manner.
    ...
    The violent training programs (video games, movies, etc.) would no longer be freely available to teach the “Stephen Paddocks of the world” how to kill.

     

    And, a narrow interpretation of the 2nd Amendment would defund "Hollyweird":

    October 5, 2017 at 11:00 a.m. PST: The New York Times publishes "Harvey Weinstein Paid Off Sexual Harassment Accusers for Decades," ....
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  232. Jack D says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    "Entitlement" is a poorly chosen, provocative word, but I think there's a germ of a legitimate point being made there: when a white guy ends up broke and out of work, it's probably more of a psychological blow to him than it would be to a black guy.

    N0t really (see below) but Paddock in any event didn’t fit that description.

    A white guy who is broke and out of work is more likely to figure out a way to get back to work rather than just become homeless.

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  233. @Jonathan Mason

    This same gun topic goes ’round and ’round every time. Let’s outlaw knives too. And automobiles. And fertilizer. And fire.
     
    The problem is more that mass shootings involving guns and more than two people killed are surprisingly common in the United States, and one possible reason for this is that a lot of the men--it is always men--have a certain type of personality that seems to fetishize guns and take an obsessive interest in guns in a way that they do not with fertilizer bombs or sarin gas, or anthrax powder, and it is much harder to kill a lot of people with a machete or crossbow than with a gun designed for rapid fire. That is just a fact of life.

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don't start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    Your counterargument is even less compelling. Your theoretical example isn’t even comparing apples to oranges (which are both at least common fruits), but more like comparing apples to space rocks. One is fairly common, the other much less so. So, you’re left with argument by assertion, a fatal error in a proper debate.

    I’ll part with one observation. Governments, by far and away, are the biggest mass murderers in human history. Its not even close. From Ozymandias to Saddam Hussein, leaders and their government apparatus exercise their monopoly of violence ruthlessly and liberally. By comparison, the amount of “private militias” ever raised as a counterbalance to marauding government power in human history is minuscule. You can choose to be a sheeple if you want. Me, I prefer to be sheepdog.

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  234. Jack D says:
    @guest
    The argument would be better if it was less amateur versus professional than crackpot versus the Dunning-Kruger effect. Because you kinda have to be overconfident to think you could pull off the greatest mass shooting in history--if that's what he was aiming for--from a hotel room hundreds of yards away.

    If this guy is off his rocker, you might expect him to be overconfident in his abilities and overlook things that would be obvious to more knowledgeable people. I realize they were just kids, but the Columbine killers wanted to out-do Oklahoma City with their bomb, but it was a dud. They (or Eric at least) had too much confidence in their bombmaking abilities. This guy, though he overdid it, apparently knew what he was doing. Crazed amateurs aren't known for that.

    The classic example, though I don't know whether he was crazy, was the guy who robbed banks without any attempt at disguise besides covering himself in lemon juice. Because they use lemon juice for invisible ink, or something.

    I'm not surprised people are suspicious of this guy for not screwing up. He doesn't have to look as foolish as the lemon juice guy or the guy in Iran who paid a wizard to make him invisible before robbing a bank. People just expect him to be less successful than he was.

    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.
     
    I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock's resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.

    But I think your overall point is true given that he wasn't an expert and just a motivated, above average intelligence white dude.
    , @guest
    He could be an unrecognized Thomas Edison for all the conspiracy theorists know. All I'm saying is the thought process goes: mass shooter = crazy = crackpot = probably unaware of his limitations = not so great at killing people.
    , @AM

    Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes.
     
    Or he was slime ball gambler who dallied in crime, just like dear old Dad. You don't have $100,000 in cash to wire to the "high stakes waitress" girlfriend by managing apartment complexes and gambling thousands of dollars at time. I'm not sure what to think about this attempt to improve his non-existent character.

    If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.
     
    As Alec pointed out, he didn't. I suspect Satan is always disappointed in his recruits. If he stopped shooting at minute mark 13 that's fail from Satan's point of view. He might have had hundreds of deaths if just got over the first security guard's arrival.
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  235. @Jonathan Mason

    Then women like you don’t have to have any. It’s a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don’t get in the way of MY gun ownership.
     
    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    But the real question is to what extent can life as we know it be allowed to deteriorate from what it once was? Conservatism, by definition, is about slowing change and preserving what is good.

    Terrorism has already profoundly impacted several areas of American life, for example air travel has become a nightmare of security rigmaroles, and even long distance bus travel cannot be done now without producing some kind of government ID. Schools are surrounded by chain link fences and patrolled by guards, and often have police officers within the school. Most government buildings and courthouses demand that people turn out their pockets, subject themselves to scans and pat downs, and so on. People are searched on entering sports events and musical concerts.

    Supposing the situation continues to deteriorate and people stop going to public events, which are now played to empty stadiums and only shown on TV, as happened with a Barcelona soccer match last week.

    Supposing government security in areas of the US breaks down to the extent that de facto rule by rival warlords and their armed supporters is the case in large areas of territory? This may seem fanciful, but there are already areas where criminal gangs stake out "territories" that they defend from each other, and in fact internecine gang warfare is probably already the cause of a substantial number of shooting deaths in certain cities.

    Is the ONLY answer that we all need to sit at home with our families behind bulletproof walls with gunports facing the street on each house and defend ourselves with our own weapons? There is a saying that every man's home is his castle, but is this supposed to be figurative or literal?

    Or is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk of dying by bomb or gunfire at home or in the streets, or public and commercial spaces?

    The way many people see it, we are doomed by our immutable Constitution and its Amendments, so perhaps the only answer is a new American Revolution and a new Constitution for modern times that contains new rights for We The People.

    It would be strange if a revolution was the only conservative solution, but when a Constitution becomes fossilized, it might be the only way to break the mold.

    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    Why do you choose the deliberately incendiary term “fetish?” You’re just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors. Do you have a government fetish? A strong Daddy fetish? A nanny fetish? Do you like to have your bottom powdered and a diaper applied to you by frumpy older women? Or do you have a legitimate and reasoned point to make?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    You’re just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors.

     

    Definitions of fetish:

    1. any object believed by some person or group to have magic power
    2. any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted
    to make a fetish of sports
    3. Psychiatryany nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings

    I don't know why you automatically assumed that I was using the third of the three definitions listed above. In any case, I was not thinking about people depending on guns for sexual arousal, but about people who have an irrational devotion to guns.

    I once knew a woman who used recreational drugs of various types such as amphetamine. She once said to me: "You know, drugs are not as dangerous as people think, as long as you know what you are doing." Less than a year later I attended her funeral as she had overdosed on heroin mixed with Xanax and Flexeril (I saw her death certificate.) It was reported by an eye witness, her daughter, that this was the second time she had tried heroin. Good thing she knew what she was doing.

    Some people get a bit like this about guns. It is OK to have a gun as a tool as long as you realize that it is potentially deadly tool that should never be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them just like it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children. (I once had a pit bull bitch.) However some people become messianic about guns and devote their lives to explaining to other people that guns are not really dangerous if you know what you are doing.

    Like this guy:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944558/Man-cleaning-gun-accidentally-shoots-kills-son.html

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?

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  236. @Travis
    did the shooting actually continue for the full 70 minutes (from the first shot until the cops breached his room)...if so I would expect a higher number of victims...

    I suspect the shooter incurred the bulk of the casualties within the first 5-10 minutes as the crowd were confused and trying to sort out what was going on. Once they understood what was happening, they went to cover/evacuated the area. Thus the shooter would have a harder time acquiring additional targets as time went on.

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  237. @Jack D
    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.

    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.

    I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock’s resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.

    But I think your overall point is true given that he wasn’t an expert and just a motivated, above average intelligence white dude.

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock’s resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.
     
    I agree but this is exactly opposite to the point raised by "security experts" that Paddock could not possibly have done this at all without expert instruction from someone like them.
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  238. @International Jew
    He said "criteria is".

    הדקדוק העברי שלי הוא בסדר גמור, יא חתיכת חרא.

    I would gone with “hatichat efes”, the more polite variation.

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  239. guest says:
    @Jack D
    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.

    He could be an unrecognized Thomas Edison for all the conspiracy theorists know. All I’m saying is the thought process goes: mass shooter = crazy = crackpot = probably unaware of his limitations = not so great at killing people.

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  240. Wulf says:

    I have a question to gun owners with some idea of the legal framework affecting gun ownership.

    Some years ago, around 2004, I stumbled upon a site in which the owner claimed to have sent a letter to the ATF asking whether the addition of a 14 inch shoestring to the trigger of a rifle would be considered a machinegun. The ATF hilariously responded yes, a the shoestring was considered a machinegun.

    The ATF later back pedaled, claiming in a late response that it was the addition of the shoestring to the rifle what would make the ATF consider the combination a machinegun.

    https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/

    Now, I’m not a big fan of conspiracy theories, but how on earth did the ATF approve for sale a device (bumpstock) which its exclusive purpose is to convert a semi automatic rifle into a fully automated one?

    Are TPTB allowing the sale of such devices – knowing it’s a question of time a serious mass shooting happens – to later push for restrictionist gun control laws?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    ...but how on earth did the ATF approve for sale a device (bumpstock) ...
     
    What makes you think the ATF has the authority to approve or not approve such devices? It's not like they are the FDA where you are required to get approval for all new drugs.
    , @anonguy

    but how on earth did the ATF approve for sale a device (bumpstock) which its exclusive purpose is to convert a semi automatic rifle into a fully automated one?
     
    I'm scratching my head over that one as well.
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  241. @Alec Leamas

    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).
     
    Why do you choose the deliberately incendiary term "fetish?" You're just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors. Do you have a government fetish? A strong Daddy fetish? A nanny fetish? Do you like to have your bottom powdered and a diaper applied to you by frumpy older women? Or do you have a legitimate and reasoned point to make?

    You’re just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors.

    Definitions of fetish:

    1. any object believed by some person or group to have magic power
    2. any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted
    to make a fetish of sports
    3. Psychiatryany nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings

    I don’t know why you automatically assumed that I was using the third of the three definitions listed above. In any case, I was not thinking about people depending on guns for sexual arousal, but about people who have an irrational devotion to guns.

    I once knew a woman who used recreational drugs of various types such as amphetamine. She once said to me: “You know, drugs are not as dangerous as people think, as long as you know what you are doing.” Less than a year later I attended her funeral as she had overdosed on heroin mixed with Xanax and Flexeril (I saw her death certificate.) It was reported by an eye witness, her daughter, that this was the second time she had tried heroin. Good thing she knew what she was doing.

    Some people get a bit like this about guns. It is OK to have a gun as a tool as long as you realize that it is potentially deadly tool that should never be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them just like it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children. (I once had a pit bull bitch.) However some people become messianic about guns and devote their lives to explaining to other people that guns are not really dangerous if you know what you are doing.

    Like this guy:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944558/Man-cleaning-gun-accidentally-shoots-kills-son.html

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    If you are user of illegal drugs, it is impossible to know what you are doing because you can't know the purity of the drugs you are buying or even whether the "heroin" you are buying is really heroin or fentanyl or even something even more potent. (Though maybe if this woman had taken the precaution of keeping Narcan around and making sure that she was not alone so someone could administer it to her, she would still be alive - even when it comes to being a drug addict there are better and worse ways of doing it).

    OTOH, when it comes to gun ownership, if you learn and carefully follow a few simple well established rules you can reduce the risk of accidentally shooting yourself or a loved one to a very low level, certainly to a level that is lower than the risk of driving a car. You could clean your gun every day twice a day for your entire life if that is what pleases you and as long as you follow the well known rules you will never shoot yourself or your loved ones. In fact the kind of person who only cleans his gun occasionally, when it really "needs cleaning" is MORE likely to shoot someone because it is not a well established routine for him and he might miss a step.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    You're being deliberately obtuse. The modern use and connotation of the word "fetish" is its sexual meaning. If you meant the other meanings without the sexual connotation (and attendant insult) you would have used "totem," "talisman" etc.

    Guns are safe if you follow the "10 commandments of gun safety" habitually and perform a proper check of the chamber every time you handle a particular firearm (viz, remove magazine/unload magazine and work the action to eject any chambered cartridge or shell). Which is just a way of saying "assume all firearms are loaded until proven otherwise."
    , @Mr. Anon

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?
     
    Given that he had just shot it at the range, yes, it needed cleaning. But - sure - just because some guy somewhere accidently killed his son cleaning a pistol, let's scrap the second amendment.

    You go on at length about "do you really need a gun"? Well.......do you really need the right to speak freely? Do you really need the right to freely assemble? Do you really need the right to vote? I'm doubtful that you do. How'dya like that?

    The whole idea of a right is that it's a right. It is not subject to need. It is certainly not subject to what some guy somewhere (you, in this case) thinks someone needs.
    , @Kylie
    "...it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children."

    If you are a responsible adult, you never ever leave any dog, regardless of breed or type, alone with small children.
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  242. Svigor says:

    I personally have no objection to people owning guns to protect themselves from home invasions, or for hunting, but it seems logical to have some kind of controls to ensure that gun owners are trained in gun safety procedures, carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally, and don’t start stockpiling semi-military type weapons beyond a reasonable individual need.

    Preventing “stockpiling” “beyond a reasonable individual need” is inherently a gross violation of the 2nd Amendment. “Stockpilers” are how society will arm itself in the event of tyranny, gov’t breakdown, incompetence, or indifference to political violence, natural disaster, rampant crime, etc.

    This is all aside from the fact that firearms are a great durable goods investment; they hold their value in bad times.

    Regardless of what the Second Amendment says about the right to bear arms, the right is not without some boundaries, for example individuals are not allowed to have carry hand grenades or to possess incendiary bombs, so there is some room for legal restrictions to address particular types of risk without offending the general principle that citizens in good legal standing should be allowed to have weapons.

    The limitations you refer to are simply violations of the 2nd Amendment that have been tolerated, because they’ve been found reasonable. Your arguments are a great reason to revoke that tolerance.

    I do not find the argument that people should be allowed to form their own private militias as a counterbalance to excessive government power to be very persuasive, otherwise you are more or less entitling bodybuilders to be armed and to shoot drug enforcement law officers if they believe they should be entitled to buy, sell, and use steroid drugs that are interdicted for recreational use by current law. Or many other theoretical examples.

    I am unable to discern any logic in this babble.

    carry insurance policies to compensate anyone they might injure accidentally

    That is a really good idea although the insurance should also cover people that are injured (or killed) intentionally. I think it could win over some conservatives because it emphasizes personal responsibility and uses decentralized market mechanisms to regulate who buys guns and what kinds of purchases they make.

    The problem is, it amounts to infringement via financial hurdle.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    It sounds to me as if you are saying that ANYTHING that burdens your 2nd Amendment rights is unconstitutional. I don't think this is what the Supreme Court has said. You have a right (albeit not enshrined in the Constitution) to drive a car but states can still enact insurance requirements. If the 2nd Amendment is unlimited, then why can't we all own machine guns or RPGs?

    The problem with the "all or nothing" type approach that you take is that there is always a chance that you will push the public too far and they say, OK, in that case, nothing. If you piss off enough people then even the Constitution can be amended.
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  243. Svigor says:

    Also, I trust insurance companies not to make deplorables uninsurable, and thus bereft of the 2nd Amendment, about as much as I trust tech companies to safeguard our 1st Amendment rights.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  244. Svigor says:

    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    Some people get a bit like this about guns. It is OK to have a gun as a tool as long as you realize that it is potentially deadly tool that should never be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them just like it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children. (I once had a pit bull bitch.) However some people become messianic about guns and devote their lives to explaining to other people that guns are not really dangerous if you know what you are doing.

    I don’t trust anyone (certainly not you) with the power to determine whether someone is exercising their 2nd Amendment rights too enthusiastically.

    Jonathan Mason says:
    October 4, 2017 at 11:12 am GMT • 400 Words

    This is a real loony comment. Even I can’t be bothered to argue with it.

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  245. Ben Gunn says:

    Wait a minute, didn’t Steve publish during the Holmes incident concerning a similar Mother Jones story that “her” figures were fraudulent? She simply deleted non whites.

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  246. @Jonathan Mason

    Then women like you don’t have to have any. It’s a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don’t get in the way of MY gun ownership.
     
    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    But the real question is to what extent can life as we know it be allowed to deteriorate from what it once was? Conservatism, by definition, is about slowing change and preserving what is good.

    Terrorism has already profoundly impacted several areas of American life, for example air travel has become a nightmare of security rigmaroles, and even long distance bus travel cannot be done now without producing some kind of government ID. Schools are surrounded by chain link fences and patrolled by guards, and often have police officers within the school. Most government buildings and courthouses demand that people turn out their pockets, subject themselves to scans and pat downs, and so on. People are searched on entering sports events and musical concerts.

    Supposing the situation continues to deteriorate and people stop going to public events, which are now played to empty stadiums and only shown on TV, as happened with a Barcelona soccer match last week.

    Supposing government security in areas of the US breaks down to the extent that de facto rule by rival warlords and their armed supporters is the case in large areas of territory? This may seem fanciful, but there are already areas where criminal gangs stake out "territories" that they defend from each other, and in fact internecine gang warfare is probably already the cause of a substantial number of shooting deaths in certain cities.

    Is the ONLY answer that we all need to sit at home with our families behind bulletproof walls with gunports facing the street on each house and defend ourselves with our own weapons? There is a saying that every man's home is his castle, but is this supposed to be figurative or literal?

    Or is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk of dying by bomb or gunfire at home or in the streets, or public and commercial spaces?

    The way many people see it, we are doomed by our immutable Constitution and its Amendments, so perhaps the only answer is a new American Revolution and a new Constitution for modern times that contains new rights for We The People.

    It would be strange if a revolution was the only conservative solution, but when a Constitution becomes fossilized, it might be the only way to break the mold.

    is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk…?

    Women like you just don’t understand Twinkie’s and my country.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Fossils like you should stay in the past where you belong and stop stinking up the future.
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  247. I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock’s resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.

    A truck bomb would have killed hundreds. He wasn’t trying that hard – just using the implements on hand to perform his unfortunate act of catharsis.

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  248. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Then women like you don’t have to have any. It’s a free country. Or at least it used to be. Just don’t get in the way of MY gun ownership.
     
    Not sure if this is supposed to be an Onion style parody of gun-rights advocates, but assuming it is not, it raises other questions, such as whether the author has a gun fetish or a reasoned and legitimate need for gun protection (which might well be the case).

    But the real question is to what extent can life as we know it be allowed to deteriorate from what it once was? Conservatism, by definition, is about slowing change and preserving what is good.

    Terrorism has already profoundly impacted several areas of American life, for example air travel has become a nightmare of security rigmaroles, and even long distance bus travel cannot be done now without producing some kind of government ID. Schools are surrounded by chain link fences and patrolled by guards, and often have police officers within the school. Most government buildings and courthouses demand that people turn out their pockets, subject themselves to scans and pat downs, and so on. People are searched on entering sports events and musical concerts.

    Supposing the situation continues to deteriorate and people stop going to public events, which are now played to empty stadiums and only shown on TV, as happened with a Barcelona soccer match last week.

    Supposing government security in areas of the US breaks down to the extent that de facto rule by rival warlords and their armed supporters is the case in large areas of territory? This may seem fanciful, but there are already areas where criminal gangs stake out "territories" that they defend from each other, and in fact internecine gang warfare is probably already the cause of a substantial number of shooting deaths in certain cities.

    Is the ONLY answer that we all need to sit at home with our families behind bulletproof walls with gunports facing the street on each house and defend ourselves with our own weapons? There is a saying that every man's home is his castle, but is this supposed to be figurative or literal?

    Or is there any kind of effective legislative action that federal and state government can take to reduce our risk of dying by bomb or gunfire at home or in the streets, or public and commercial spaces?

    The way many people see it, we are doomed by our immutable Constitution and its Amendments, so perhaps the only answer is a new American Revolution and a new Constitution for modern times that contains new rights for We The People.

    It would be strange if a revolution was the only conservative solution, but when a Constitution becomes fossilized, it might be the only way to break the mold.

    Paddock was obviously an exception (BTW, his brother said that he was NOT into guns until obviously recently), but in most cases the kind of guys who collect (or, if you wish, fetish) guns are the LEAST likely to actually use them in a criminal way. Men, especially, have some kind of impulse to collect stuff – some people collect stamps, art, cars, etc. and some people focus their collecting on guns. And not just guns but all of the accessories, etc. And just like some car collectors leave their cars in the garage and other take them out on the road, some gun collectors like to actually shoot their guns. Usually these are the guys who are MOST careful about gun safety. If you are around guns a lot and are NOT careful about safety then you are going to win a Darwin Award so the ones who are around are the ones who are careful – it’s like the old saying about pilots – there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old, bold pilots.

    Now of course guys like this have tunnel vision about guns. Guns are the best thing since sliced bread. They are protected by the Constitution, they are the only thing standing between us and tyranny. Don’t go infringing MY gun rights. You are never going to convince people like this that the broader society has needs and issues that may outweigh their own interests. This is one of the problems with democracy – if you have an issue that 10 out of 100 people feel passionately about and 90 out of 100 people are either indifferent or mildly opposed to the 10, the 10 are going to prevail because they are the ones who are going to make noise, write their congressman, donate, etc.

    Now gun ownership really IS protected by the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has rightly recognized that Constitutional rights are not absolute. Freedom of the press does not include freedom to libel. The government has the right to enact reasonable regulations to balance the rights of gun owners against the rights of the broader society not to get massacred by madmen. It strikes me that a device that enables you to shoot 100s rounds/second and circumvent the laws against ownership of automatic weapons should not be legal, but that’s just me.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    Yes, everything you say is true, but there is an element of Greek tragedy about the case I provided a link to. I cannot be bothered to reseach the guy's Facebook posts, but I am sure he was immensely proud of how he was protecting his family with his gun and then he goes and kills his son with it at home. Hubris and all that.

    In early manhood Oedipus visited Delphi and upon learning that he was fated to kill his father and marry his mother, he resolved never to return to Corinth.

    Traveling toward Thebes, he encountered a stranger, who provoked a quarrel in which Oedipus killed him (as one does). Arriving at Thebes, Oedipus finds out that the king has recently been killed in an argument on the road. Guess what, the dead king was Oedipus's real dad, who also knew of the prophecy and had left his newborn son on a hillside to be eaten by wolves, only for a kindly shepherd to find the baby, adopt him, and relocate to Corinth. Rotten luck!

    Moral: if you think you can outrun the Fates, no amount of steroids will help you.
    , @anonguy

    but the Supreme Court has rightly recognized that Constitutional rights are not absolute.
     
    Rightly? How does "shall not be infringed" reconcile with "reasonable restrictions" Sounds like infringement to me. "Reasonable" restrictions on rights are just part of a gradualist nullification. It doesn't even have to be nefarious, everyone can be acting reasonably and with good intentions.

    But the right is still eroded by "reasonable" restrictions.

    BTW, what do most people need a dog for? That is something I ask people when they ask what anyone needs a gun for. The era of working dogs for most people is long over.

    Disclaimer. I like and own dogs, and one of the most useless kind at the moment.
    , @Sane Left Libertarian

    Paddock was obviously an exception (BTW, his brother said that he was NOT into guns until obviously recently)
     
    So by my lights, if we aren't going to go the way that Australia did after their first gun massacre (they haven't had one since), there should be a way for the authorities to catch on to the fact that Paddock is suddenly amassing an arsenal. There is nothing in the constitution that prevents the government from tracking these sorts of anomalies, and trying to prevent the ensuing disaster. But the 2A zealots won't allow that either. In fact, most of them swear that guns have nothing to do with gun massacres.
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  249. Svigor says:

    The Constitution says “shall not be infringed.” Change the Constitution if you don’t like it; that’s what Amendments are for. If it’s such a pressing issue, everyone will agree with you.

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  250. AM says:
    @Jack D
    The point that (apparently) the smoke alarm went off and the security guard got shot in front of the correct door was at 13 minutes. It then took the cops another hour to enter the room for reasons not clear to me. Luckily the guy was not shooting out the window after the 13 min mark from what I understand.

    The point that (apparently) the smoke alarm went off and the security guard got shot in front of the correct door was at 13 minutes.

    How were the regular police, who come in from the outside, in numbers from somewhere not in at the Mandalay Bay, supposed to know that information? I don’t think even the most sophisticated smoke alarms tell you exactly which room it went off in.

    I can imagine the security office only knowing that the smoke alarm went off in a certain bank of floors and that their security guard had not yet returned at the time of arrival, which could have not been later than minute mark 45.

    It’s easy to be a armchair security guard. I suspect the actual turmoil of such an unexpected event makes both the 13 minute mark arrival of internal security and the 72 of external quite a miracle.

    Luckily the guy was not shooting out the window after the 13 min mark from what I understand.

    It’s possible he committed suicide when the security guard first came. I saw a leaked picture with was rather gruesome of his dead body in place. The blood on the edges of the pool looked it had started to dry.

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    • Replies: @AM

    the 72 of external quite a miracle.
     
    Just an update here, guest filled in the timeline better for me. Turns out they were there in 20 minutes and stood around for a long time. That's not so exciting. Calling the miracle in 20 minutes and humanness to stand around for 50.
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  251. Svigor says:

    It strikes me that a device that enables you to shoot 100s rounds/second and circumvent the laws against ownership of automatic weapons should not be legal, but that’s just me.

    I have heard of no such legal device. Can you elaborate?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The "bump stock". Somehow the makers convinced the ATF that these should be legal because they contain no springs or something, but ATF should not have allowed them. Technically a bump stock does not make your gun into an automatic because the trigger still needs to get pulled for each shot, but anything that allows your gun to fire 100s of rounds per second sounds like an automatic to me.
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  252. AM says:
    @Jack D
    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.

    Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes.

    Or he was slime ball gambler who dallied in crime, just like dear old Dad. You don’t have $100,000 in cash to wire to the “high stakes waitress” girlfriend by managing apartment complexes and gambling thousands of dollars at time. I’m not sure what to think about this attempt to improve his non-existent character.

    If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.

    As Alec pointed out, he didn’t. I suspect Satan is always disappointed in his recruits. If he stopped shooting at minute mark 13 that’s fail from Satan’s point of view. He might have had hundreds of deaths if just got over the first security guard’s arrival.

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  253. AM says:
    @John Regan

    “Gee. I can’t get a gun. I guess I won’t slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river”
     
    Yes. Suicide is mostly circumstantial: people are more likely to commit suicide when they have an easy means to do so, in a cultural context where it's not heavily stigmatized and usually for reasons that are fairly arbitrary. People also show a strong preference for certain methods of suicide, either for their perceived glamor, "painlessness" or because of a desire to "act out" in a violent way. If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.

    If you remove a common (and effective) means of suicide you decrease the suicide rate; heck, even if you stop someone midway through the act most will not reattempt. Suicide is, in most cases, an impulsive act.

    This is the romanticized, “I read a novel” version of suicide.

    In real life, people think about suicide for months and even years. Do you really think this mass murder/suicide was spontaneous? One of the markers of suicidal people are strange acts like wiring money and selling houses and giving away stuff they know they aren’t going to need anymore. Lots of planning.

    Everyone knows suicide is a drastic step to take. The ability to stop them even the last moments is about how terrible everyone knows suicide to be.

    Meanwhile, one of the highest suicide rates per capita is Japan, where nobody has guns. They do however all have access to knives and ropes and have culture that has history of calling suicide the right thing to do.

    It seems to me that if you want to prevent suicide, the way to do would be to call it a horrible sin against God and humanity and deny a proper public burial for all those who choose that route. There’s nothing to be done but pray for the dead, but those social inclinations might give those with tenuous connection something to live for.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Meanwhile, one of the highest suicide rates per capita is Japan, where nobody has guns. They do however all have access to knives and ropes and have culture that has history of calling suicide the right thing to do.
     
    South Korea has an even higher rate of suicide than Japan does, and civilian firearm ownership is essentially non-existent.

    Anyone who thinks that the lack of civilian firearm ownership prevents or reduces suicides is an idiot.
    , @John Regan
    Suicide is multifactorial: as I said, cultural context, easy access to methods that are appealing, pre-existing mental illness, some kind of life trigger etc. Nobody is saying that by banning guns, if that were even possible, we'd lower the number of people who commit suicide by however many people shoot themselves each year. What is true is that if we banned (or seriously restricted access to) firearms we'd probably see fewer suicides overall. Some would just use alternate means, but many would not. Guns are easy to obtain, have a relatively high rate of success, and are probably more painless than other methods (or at least are perceived that way); many people simply don't have the nerve to jump off a bridge, or are worried about a painful death or about failing and ending up disabled on top of that (both big risks with overdose). Guns also enable impulsive suicide (e.g., while intoxicated) for people who already have them in the home (this is probably even more true of murder btw). Plus there's just the general American cultural fascination with guns and the ability to make one last violent statement, to shock/horrify the society that has "wronged" you (think Budd Dwyer).
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  254. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    You’re just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors.

     

    Definitions of fetish:

    1. any object believed by some person or group to have magic power
    2. any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted
    to make a fetish of sports
    3. Psychiatryany nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings

    I don't know why you automatically assumed that I was using the third of the three definitions listed above. In any case, I was not thinking about people depending on guns for sexual arousal, but about people who have an irrational devotion to guns.

    I once knew a woman who used recreational drugs of various types such as amphetamine. She once said to me: "You know, drugs are not as dangerous as people think, as long as you know what you are doing." Less than a year later I attended her funeral as she had overdosed on heroin mixed with Xanax and Flexeril (I saw her death certificate.) It was reported by an eye witness, her daughter, that this was the second time she had tried heroin. Good thing she knew what she was doing.

    Some people get a bit like this about guns. It is OK to have a gun as a tool as long as you realize that it is potentially deadly tool that should never be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them just like it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children. (I once had a pit bull bitch.) However some people become messianic about guns and devote their lives to explaining to other people that guns are not really dangerous if you know what you are doing.

    Like this guy:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944558/Man-cleaning-gun-accidentally-shoots-kills-son.html

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?

    If you are user of illegal drugs, it is impossible to know what you are doing because you can’t know the purity of the drugs you are buying or even whether the “heroin” you are buying is really heroin or fentanyl or even something even more potent. (Though maybe if this woman had taken the precaution of keeping Narcan around and making sure that she was not alone so someone could administer it to her, she would still be alive – even when it comes to being a drug addict there are better and worse ways of doing it).

    OTOH, when it comes to gun ownership, if you learn and carefully follow a few simple well established rules you can reduce the risk of accidentally shooting yourself or a loved one to a very low level, certainly to a level that is lower than the risk of driving a car. You could clean your gun every day twice a day for your entire life if that is what pleases you and as long as you follow the well known rules you will never shoot yourself or your loved ones. In fact the kind of person who only cleans his gun occasionally, when it really “needs cleaning” is MORE likely to shoot someone because it is not a well established routine for him and he might miss a step.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    If you are user of illegal drugs, it is impossible to know what you are doing because you can’t know the purity of the drugs you are buying or even whether the “heroin” you are buying is really heroin or fentanyl or even something even more potent. (Though maybe if this woman had taken the precaution of keeping Narcan around and making sure that she was not alone so someone could administer it to her, she would still be alive – even when it comes to being a drug addict there are better and worse ways of doing it).
     
    The wrinkle to this is that heroin dealers are in the habit of "branding" their product (the glassine packaging) with a mark and then cut a certain percentage of the product with material calculated to kill their customers with use. The idea is that heroin addicts will seek out the "brand" that is associated with a recent overdose death(s) because they perceive it to be the "best stuff" yielding the best high.

    So the analogy here would be if gun manufacturers deliberately manufactured some of their products to blow up and kill users using the gun as intended/instructed.
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  255. Ian M. says:

    Steve has often remarked that suicide by cop is a much more of a white thing than a black thing.

    However, wikipedia gives the following stats for male suicides-by-cop:

    41% Caucasian
    26% Hispanic
    16% African American

    So while whites outnumber blacks in a 2.5:1 ratio, on a per capita basis, blacks outnumber whites.

    Is Steve wrong? Or are these stats suspect? I would imagine it might not always being easy to distinguish suicide by cop from mere stupid behavior that results in someone’s death, and this would presumably inflate the black numbers relative to the white numbers. I also suspect that police departments might sometimes try to frame killings by cops as suicides by cop to avoid negative media exposure and backlash from outfits like Black Lies Matter, and this would also inflate the black numbers more than the white numbers.

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  256. jim jones says:

    Talking to friends about this here in the UK the overwhelming opinion is that Americans are lunatics

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Have you checked with Cousin Groypley, mate?

    https://twitter.com/UK_Groyper/status/915405648384241664
    , @Jack Hanson
    People terrified of the police coming through the door for mean comments online while their daughters are raped by Muslims should not comment on anyone's sanity.
    , @Kylie
    Whew, that's a relief. If your friends in the UK had expressed any other opinion, they might well have had to answer for it to some government official.
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  257. Jack D says:
    @Alec Leamas

    The other examples you gave were of people who were very young or stupid or both. Paddock was a mature man, an intelligent man, an accountant who had managed apartment complexes. He was not some ignorant brown person smearing himself with lemon juice. If you asked him to renovate your house, he would renovate your house and it would come out nice and within the budget. If you (or Satan) asked him to conduct a massacre he would conduct a first class massacre.
     
    I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock's resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.

    But I think your overall point is true given that he wasn't an expert and just a motivated, above average intelligence white dude.

    I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock’s resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.

    I agree but this is exactly opposite to the point raised by “security experts” that Paddock could not possibly have done this at all without expert instruction from someone like them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-intelligent-gambler-gun-rights

    This article, based on an interview with the male Australian partner of the sister of Paddock's mistress suggests that Paddock was a bit of a gun fetishist who had build a special room for guns in his home and given a lot of thought to arguments about the rights and wrongs of personal gun ownership.

    Also interesting is the claim that Paddock was able to gamble profitably on machines rather than table games by using algorithms. I find this hard to believe, so it could have been delusional or a front to cover up his gambling losses (IMHO).

    Another interesting point that I have not seen discussed anywhere is how Paddock was able to send $100,000 overseas. My understanding is that you need special authorization to export more than $10,000. You can't just go to Western Union and send off $100,000 on the spur of the moment, you need to get some kind of permit to send large amounts, for example to buy a home overseas, or for business purposes.

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  258. Bill says:
    @Jack D

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex.

     

    People who are in a profession tend to overestimate how hard it is for a dedicated amateur to do their job. The guy was very effective but what he did was not rocket science. A pro would not have told him to have a dozen guns and thousands more rounds of ammo than he really used. The guy was over-prepared in the way a dedicated amateur would overprepare.

    Agree. The praise of this guy is like the praise of the 9/11 hijackers. It’s just bizarre. 9/11 was a reasonably good idea with mediocre execution. Same thing here. I guess if you are used to thinking about and dealing with criminals and soldiers, the capabilities of smart people seem implausible to you.

    Does anyone know what those long pauses in the gunfire are in this case? They seem too long to be either magazine exchanges or gun exchanges. So, what’s going on? Is he slow and clumsy? Is he admiring his work?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Does anyone know what those long pauses in the gunfire are in this case? They seem too long to be either magazine exchanges or gun exchanges. So, what’s going on? Is he slow and clumsy? Is he admiring his work?
     
    It was reported that he had two "stations" from which he laid down the fire with different angles to the crowd and therefore different lines of sight.

    I imagine he may have been traveling back and forth so that people who had gotten cover from fire from the first station might be exposed from the second and vice versa.
    , @Jack D
    He could have been going from window to window in the hope of making it less likely that someone would shoot back at him. Or maybe he was adjusting the cameras - apparently he recorded the whole thing.
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  259. @Jack D
    Paddock was obviously an exception (BTW, his brother said that he was NOT into guns until obviously recently), but in most cases the kind of guys who collect (or, if you wish, fetish) guns are the LEAST likely to actually use them in a criminal way. Men, especially, have some kind of impulse to collect stuff - some people collect stamps, art, cars, etc. and some people focus their collecting on guns. And not just guns but all of the accessories, etc. And just like some car collectors leave their cars in the garage and other take them out on the road, some gun collectors like to actually shoot their guns. Usually these are the guys who are MOST careful about gun safety. If you are around guns a lot and are NOT careful about safety then you are going to win a Darwin Award so the ones who are around are the ones who are careful - it's like the old saying about pilots - there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old, bold pilots.

    Now of course guys like this have tunnel vision about guns. Guns are the best thing since sliced bread. They are protected by the Constitution, they are the only thing standing between us and tyranny. Don't go infringing MY gun rights. You are never going to convince people like this that the broader society has needs and issues that may outweigh their own interests. This is one of the problems with democracy - if you have an issue that 10 out of 100 people feel passionately about and 90 out of 100 people are either indifferent or mildly opposed to the 10, the 10 are going to prevail because they are the ones who are going to make noise, write their congressman, donate, etc.

    Now gun ownership really IS protected by the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has rightly recognized that Constitutional rights are not absolute. Freedom of the press does not include freedom to libel. The government has the right to enact reasonable regulations to balance the rights of gun owners against the rights of the broader society not to get massacred by madmen. It strikes me that a device that enables you to shoot 100s rounds/second and circumvent the laws against ownership of automatic weapons should not be legal, but that's just me.

    Yes, everything you say is true, but there is an element of Greek tragedy about the case I provided a link to. I cannot be bothered to reseach the guy’s Facebook posts, but I am sure he was immensely proud of how he was protecting his family with his gun and then he goes and kills his son with it at home. Hubris and all that.

    In early manhood Oedipus visited Delphi and upon learning that he was fated to kill his father and marry his mother, he resolved never to return to Corinth.

    Traveling toward Thebes, he encountered a stranger, who provoked a quarrel in which Oedipus killed him (as one does). Arriving at Thebes, Oedipus finds out that the king has recently been killed in an argument on the road. Guess what, the dead king was Oedipus’s real dad, who also knew of the prophecy and had left his newborn son on a hillside to be eaten by wolves, only for a kindly shepherd to find the baby, adopt him, and relocate to Corinth. Rotten luck!

    Moral: if you think you can outrun the Fates, no amount of steroids will help you.

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  260. Their definition of white probably includes Jews (Columbine) and Arabs (Fort Hood) which we know drives the number higher.

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  261. kihowi says:

    Interestingly, they stop after 9/11 for almost two years

    Because during that time there was nationalism, unity, jingoism, energy. There was clear morality for the first time in decades: us good, terrorism bad. There was even the illusion of vigorous religion with George Bush. For two years white losers who had been beaten down their whole lives felt part of something.

    Morale is the most important thing in the world.

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  262. @Jonathan Mason

    You’re just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors.

     

    Definitions of fetish:

    1. any object believed by some person or group to have magic power
    2. any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted
    to make a fetish of sports
    3. Psychiatryany nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings

    I don't know why you automatically assumed that I was using the third of the three definitions listed above. In any case, I was not thinking about people depending on guns for sexual arousal, but about people who have an irrational devotion to guns.

    I once knew a woman who used recreational drugs of various types such as amphetamine. She once said to me: "You know, drugs are not as dangerous as people think, as long as you know what you are doing." Less than a year later I attended her funeral as she had overdosed on heroin mixed with Xanax and Flexeril (I saw her death certificate.) It was reported by an eye witness, her daughter, that this was the second time she had tried heroin. Good thing she knew what she was doing.

    Some people get a bit like this about guns. It is OK to have a gun as a tool as long as you realize that it is potentially deadly tool that should never be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them just like it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children. (I once had a pit bull bitch.) However some people become messianic about guns and devote their lives to explaining to other people that guns are not really dangerous if you know what you are doing.

    Like this guy:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944558/Man-cleaning-gun-accidentally-shoots-kills-son.html

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?

    You’re being deliberately obtuse. The modern use and connotation of the word “fetish” is its sexual meaning. If you meant the other meanings without the sexual connotation (and attendant insult) you would have used “totem,” “talisman” etc.

    Guns are safe if you follow the “10 commandments of gun safety” habitually and perform a proper check of the chamber every time you handle a particular firearm (viz, remove magazine/unload magazine and work the action to eject any chambered cartridge or shell). Which is just a way of saying “assume all firearms are loaded until proven otherwise.”

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  263. If you are user of illegal drugs, it is impossible to know what you are doing because you can’t know the purity of the drugs you are buying or even whether the “heroin” you are buying is really heroin or fentanyl or even something even more potent. (Though maybe if this woman had taken the precaution of keeping Narcan around and making sure that she was not alone so someone could administer it to her, she would still be alive – even when it comes to being a drug addict there are better and worse ways of doing it).

    Yes, I told her all this, but she knew more than I did. She was not alone and her partner in crime was kind enough to put her in a cold shower, which was where she was when the ambulance showed up.

    I was out of the country at the time (not in the Philippines, though) and only heard about this a bit later. I had actually forgotten about this until you reminded me, but I mentioned to the local police that under Florida law a person who brought illegal drugs to a residence that caused a death was themself guilty of murder in the first degree, which they had not bothered to investigate as they figured it was just another druggy offing herself and anyway the ambulance crew had messed up the crime scene.

    Detectives knocked on the door of the man involved a few days later, but he was not at home or did not open the door. A few weeks later a detective called me and told me that he had been found dead by suicide in Minnesota.

    See my other post about Greek tragedy.

    Moral: You can hide, but you can’t outrun a guilty conscience.

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  264. @Jack D
    If you are user of illegal drugs, it is impossible to know what you are doing because you can't know the purity of the drugs you are buying or even whether the "heroin" you are buying is really heroin or fentanyl or even something even more potent. (Though maybe if this woman had taken the precaution of keeping Narcan around and making sure that she was not alone so someone could administer it to her, she would still be alive - even when it comes to being a drug addict there are better and worse ways of doing it).

    OTOH, when it comes to gun ownership, if you learn and carefully follow a few simple well established rules you can reduce the risk of accidentally shooting yourself or a loved one to a very low level, certainly to a level that is lower than the risk of driving a car. You could clean your gun every day twice a day for your entire life if that is what pleases you and as long as you follow the well known rules you will never shoot yourself or your loved ones. In fact the kind of person who only cleans his gun occasionally, when it really "needs cleaning" is MORE likely to shoot someone because it is not a well established routine for him and he might miss a step.

    If you are user of illegal drugs, it is impossible to know what you are doing because you can’t know the purity of the drugs you are buying or even whether the “heroin” you are buying is really heroin or fentanyl or even something even more potent. (Though maybe if this woman had taken the precaution of keeping Narcan around and making sure that she was not alone so someone could administer it to her, she would still be alive – even when it comes to being a drug addict there are better and worse ways of doing it).

    The wrinkle to this is that heroin dealers are in the habit of “branding” their product (the glassine packaging) with a mark and then cut a certain percentage of the product with material calculated to kill their customers with use. The idea is that heroin addicts will seek out the “brand” that is associated with a recent overdose death(s) because they perceive it to be the “best stuff” yielding the best high.

    So the analogy here would be if gun manufacturers deliberately manufactured some of their products to blow up and kill users using the gun as intended/instructed.

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  265. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    You’re just not going to get a reasonable response when you imply without evidence that people who disagree with you somehow incorporate guns into their sexual behaviors.

     

    Definitions of fetish:

    1. any object believed by some person or group to have magic power
    2. any thing or activity to which one is irrationally devoted
    to make a fetish of sports
    3. Psychiatryany nonsexual object, such as a foot or a glove, that abnormally excites erotic feelings

    I don't know why you automatically assumed that I was using the third of the three definitions listed above. In any case, I was not thinking about people depending on guns for sexual arousal, but about people who have an irrational devotion to guns.

    I once knew a woman who used recreational drugs of various types such as amphetamine. She once said to me: "You know, drugs are not as dangerous as people think, as long as you know what you are doing." Less than a year later I attended her funeral as she had overdosed on heroin mixed with Xanax and Flexeril (I saw her death certificate.) It was reported by an eye witness, her daughter, that this was the second time she had tried heroin. Good thing she knew what she was doing.

    Some people get a bit like this about guns. It is OK to have a gun as a tool as long as you realize that it is potentially deadly tool that should never be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them just like it is OK to have a pit bull dog as long as you never, ever leave it alone with small children. (I once had a pit bull bitch.) However some people become messianic about guns and devote their lives to explaining to other people that guns are not really dangerous if you know what you are doing.

    Like this guy:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944558/Man-cleaning-gun-accidentally-shoots-kills-son.html

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?

    Most likely he is still saying that guns are safe if you know what you are doing. But did the gun really need cleaning?

    Given that he had just shot it at the range, yes, it needed cleaning. But – sure – just because some guy somewhere accidently killed his son cleaning a pistol, let’s scrap the second amendment.

    You go on at length about “do you really need a gun”? Well…….do you really need the right to speak freely? Do you really need the right to freely assemble? Do you really need the right to vote? I’m doubtful that you do. How’dya like that?

    The whole idea of a right is that it’s a right. It is not subject to need. It is certainly not subject to what some guy somewhere (you, in this case) thinks someone needs.

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  266. res says:
    @Twinkie

    And there were daily incidents of people with guns preventing murders and crime which never made the news. Neither argument sounded particularly convincing.
     
    Well, if facts didn't convince you...

    Researcher Gary Kleck's study found 5 times as many defensive use of guns as gun crimes.

    Plenty of deaths by suicide or accidents would probably be prevented if guns weren’t as freely available.
     
    You think suicidal people will say, "Gee. I can't get a gun. I guess I won't slash my wrist or swallow 100 pills or hang myself or throw myself into the river"?

    Gun deaths by accident are exceedingly rare. Much rarer than drowning in pools or mortally falling from stairs.

    People are too screwed up to be trusted with them.
     
    I usually find that people who are afraid of guns tend to project.

    Researcher Gary Kleck’s study found 5 times as many defensive use of guns as gun crimes.

    Twinkie, I usually find you very credible, but how closely have you looked into Kleck’s results? My understanding is he performed a telephone survey–which I hardly find definitive. Is there more substance to his research than that? I don’t have much of a dog in this fight (my main desire is more enforcement of existing laws against illegal gun ownership and use of a gun in commission of a crime), but this also means I don’t have an in-depth knowledge of the literature in this area. Despite that, this link provides some arguments against Kleck’s work which I find compelling: https://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/

    Do you have a response?

    P.S. Fairly long excerpt after the MORE.

    [MORE]

    In 1997, David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, offered the first of many decisive rebukes of Kleck and Getz’s methodology, citing several overarching biases in their study.

    First, there is the social desirability bias. Respondents will falsely claim that their gun has been used for its intended purpose—to ward off a criminal—in order to validate their initial purchase. A respondent may also exaggerate facts to appear heroic to the interviewer.

    Second, there’s the problem of gun owners responding strategically. Given that there are around 3 million members of the National Rifle Association (NRA) in the United States, ostensibly all aware of the debate surrounding defensive gun use, Hemenway suggested that some gun advocates will lie to help bias estimates upwards by either blatantly fabricating incidents or embellishing situations that should not actually qualify as defensive gun use.

    Third is the risk of false positives from “telescoping,” where respondents may recall an actual self-defense use that is outside the question’s time frame. We know that telescoping problems produce substantial biases in defensive gun use estimates because the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), the gold standard of criminal victimization surveys, explicitly catalogs and corrects for it.

    Specifically, NCVS asks questions on the household level every 6 months. The first household interview has no time frame. Follow-up interviews are restricted to a six-month time frame and then NCVS corrects for duplicates. Using this strategy, NCVS finds that telescoping alone likely produces at least a 30 percent increase in false positives.

    These sorts of biases, which are inherent in reporting self-defense incidents, can lead to nonsensical results. In several crime categories, for example, gun owners would have to protect themselves more than 100 percent of the time for Kleck and Getz’s estimates to make sense. For example, guns were allegedly used in self-defense in 845,000 burglaries, according to Kleck and Getz. However, from reliable victimization surveys, we know that there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries where someone was in the home at the time of the crime, and only 33 percent of these had occupants who weren’t sleeping. From surveys on firearm ownership, we also know that 42 percent of U.S. households owned firearms at the time of the survey. Even if burglars only rob houses of gun owners, and those gun owners use their weapons in self-defense every single time they are awake, the 845,000 statistic cited in Kleck and Gertz’s paper is simply mathematically impossible.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    he performed a telephone survey–which I hardly find definitive.
     
    It can't be "definitive" because the phenomenon at question is not something that lends easily to definitive counting. So, sure, there are limitations to Kleck's methodology, but contrary the critique you quoted, the limitations include under-counting, not just over-counting. In other words, there are likely many instances of defensive use of firearms that are never reported or recorded. So, for example, it is not definitively established that there were "fewer than 1.3 million burglaries where someone was in the home." There might have been far greater number of attempted burglaries or other interpersonal crimes that were foiled and never reported or accurately counted. Or for that matter, neither is "42 percent of U.S. households owned firearms" definitive given that people are likely to be highly averse to answering "yes" to a "Do you have a gun at home?" surveys.

    Finally, there is this lovely jewel - "Hemenway suggested that some gun advocates will lie to help bias estimates upwards by either blatantly fabricating incidents or embellishing situations that should not actually qualify as defensive gun use." In other words, the "people with whom I disagree lie!" line of reasoning to attack a research result. Apparently "gun advocates" are rank liars, but gun control freaks are paragons of truth.
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  267. res says:
    @guest
    They identified the room and a security guard was shot within 15 minutes.

    8 cops were waiting outside the door within 20 minutes.

    They then waited about 50 minutes to catch the bad guy already dead in the nick of time.

    I don't know why SWAT wasn't ready faster. I'd think those guys would be on standby in Vegas, with all the money. One is wonders what the point of them is if they can't get to an "active shooter" that's already been located within an hour.

    On the other hand, if you want to swarm a peaceful suburban neighborhood with armored personnel carriers, black helicopters, and a squad of ninjas with puppy-killing rifles and flash-bang grenades, cops are your men.

    I basically agree with your points, but my understanding is that the exterior shooting (largely?) stopped after the security guard was shot. Is that correct? If so, I think that security guard deserves significant credit for his willingness to engage and incur injury.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The guy was a security guard and not a cop. As it turns out what he did seems to have been helpful but it was just luck that he didn't die and he certainly didn't physically stop the killer. It's not clear why Paddock didn't just go back to shooting at that point. Maybe he figured that more cops would follow at any second (and they didn't). Really the guard had no business approaching that door knowing that the guy on the other side of the door was pouring out rifle fire like crazy. He was not being brave, just foolhardy and he was lucky that he didn't end up like a swiss cheese. Or maybe the guard was just responding to the smoke alarm and had no idea of what he was getting into. Maybe more Keystone Kops than Die Hard.
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  268. res says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    If you watch commercials for antidepressants, they usually include some reference to suicide as a possible side effect ("an increase in suicidal thoughts" or something to that effect). The dynamic I think is that someone who is completely depressed doesn't have the energy to kill himself, but an antidepressant can give him just enough energy to do it. I assume psychiatrists have some strategies to get patients over that hump quickly, but maybe it doesn't work all the time, or some patients don't follow the protocol.
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  269. res says:
    @Mr. Anon

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,”
     
    Oh, really? Black men don't have a "feeling of entitlement"?

    Once you start looking for them “projection” and “who, whom” explain a vast amount of media output.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Agree. This could be a useful aphorism.
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  270. @Almost Missouri
    OT:

    Steve, I don't know if you've been following Equifax's leak of about half of America's private credit data, but in light of L'Affaire Damore, it turns out the head of Equifax's data security was probably an affirmative action appointment.

    WashPo BezosBlog skips over the lede to plead for tolerance of liberal arts majors in tech.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/09/19/equifaxs-top-security-exec-made-some-big-mistakes-studying-music-wasnt-one-of-them

    This is not from the Onion: IRS awards multimillion-dollar fraud-prevention contract to Equifax.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/equifax-irs-fraud-protection-contract-243419

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  271. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rod1963
    No it's more than that.

    The fact is his tactics and deployment got high praise from former Special Ops types who are sure he was either taught by people who do this for a living or someone did the prep for him. FoxNews had on one SF operator who was just shocked that this guy could pull off something so complex

    Seriously, this guy wasn't your typical gun nut who spent a lot of time at the range and prepper sites with a massive library of military tactic manuals. He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know.

    Plus the motivation angle: None of the traditional motives make any sense.

    His attacking the country music crowd instead of the casinos.This was a political attack There was nothing stopping him from leasing a two engine prop job, loading it to the gills with ANFO or even jet fuel and flying it into the casino.

    He didn't

    Instead he targeted a mostly white, and traditionally American music festival, he was making a deliberate political statement to you know who.

    There is something law enforcement isn't telling us because it's politically very explosive. I mean the police are going out of their way to throw up a wall of bullshit. The only times they say they can't find the motive for a mass killing is when it involves Muslims.

    ISIS would claim the attack as one of their

    Consider that.
    .

    “He was a wealthy, hard nosed professional gambler who all of a sudden got the sort of skill set only someone does this professionally would know.”

    Any investigation of outstanding gambling debts? Agrees or blackmailed into being the fall guy for an ISIS operation? Didnt’ the 9/11ers hang out in casinos or just strip clubs?

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  272. @res
    Once you start looking for them "projection" and "who, whom" explain a vast amount of media output.

    Agree. This could be a useful aphorism.

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  273. @Jack D

    I actually think the kill count is blessedly low given Paddock’s resources and planning. Someone more competent with weapons and tactics could have killed far more people.
     
    I agree but this is exactly opposite to the point raised by "security experts" that Paddock could not possibly have done this at all without expert instruction from someone like them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-intelligent-gambler-gun-rights

    This article, based on an interview with the male Australian partner of the sister of Paddock’s mistress suggests that Paddock was a bit of a gun fetishist who had build a special room for guns in his home and given a lot of thought to arguments about the rights and wrongs of personal gun ownership.

    Also interesting is the claim that Paddock was able to gamble profitably on machines rather than table games by using algorithms. I find this hard to believe, so it could have been delusional or a front to cover up his gambling losses (IMHO).

    Another interesting point that I have not seen discussed anywhere is how Paddock was able to send $100,000 overseas. My understanding is that you need special authorization to export more than $10,000. You can’t just go to Western Union and send off $100,000 on the spur of the moment, you need to get some kind of permit to send large amounts, for example to buy a home overseas, or for business purposes.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    This article, based on an interview with the male Australian partner of the sister of Paddock’s mistress
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZd_YyFzPD0
    , @Jack D
    This is not correct. There are IRS reporting requirements but no pre-clearance is required.
    , @EdwardM
    You can't profit long-term by playing video poker, but I suppose you can live a life of subsidized vacations.

    If the payout rate is 99.5%, then you could feed $200K per day into the machine (one hand at a $100 machine every five seconds for three hours) and expect to lose, on average in the long-run, $1,000 per day. This is enough to get you a mid-level comp package at Mandalay Bay -- free room, drinks, and meals -- and more in Reno.

    So if you're retired and can afford to spend $10-20K on a couple -week vacation a couple of times per year, this is feasible.

    But it seems like a stretch for Paddock. He supposedly was at casinos for months at a time and may well have played for more than a few hours per day. Media reports say he was worth $2M. I guess if all of his homes were paid for and his living expenses were minimal, it could be possible. But he still traveled, maintained a girlfriend, collected guns, etc. so in my view the math doesn't quite add up.

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  274. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “There’s a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don’t,” criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012

    Because the Magic Negro is patient, long suffering but wise. Unlike the honky, he holds no grudges. He’s more Christian than you; possibly more Christian than Christ.

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  275. Buck says:

    Of the approximately 100 million white men in this country, an infinitesimally small percentage will ever become a mass shooter. It’s such a tiny minority that real statisticians would rightly write it off as an anomaly. But instead, the anomalies are focused on to smear the vast, vast majority.

    These kind of crimes are so shocking specifically because of their rarity, despite the media focus on such crime now being “commonplace in modern America”. Much more commonplace is mass shootings by black perpetrators in inner city gang related incidents. These don’t even warrant a mention outside of their close media market. In fact, local news in cities with large black populations makes these kind of incidents seem almost routine, even though they too are pretty rare.

    Correspondingly, the 300 million, or so, firearms in this country will never be used in violent crime except for a tiny few. So calls for “commonsense gun laws” for guns (used in crime) which are exceedingly uncommon seems ridiculous.

    Ironically, leftists and conservatives use the same argument when talking about guns or Middle Eastern immigration. That is : Just because ‘guns being used in crime’ or ‘Muslim immigrants becoming terrorists’ is rare doesn’t mean we shouldn’t restrict them.

    Like most middle-aged white American men, I don’t live in fear or anything including guns or terrorists or blacks or white mass shooters. There are many reasons to segregate yourself from others besides some irrational fear. I like to live in a cultural hegemony of whites like most whites of all political persuasions. Few whites choose to become a minority by moving to diverse neighborhoods. That kind of segregation seems to be normal and healthy.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    CNN: "How America has silently accepted the rage of white men"

    https://www.twitter.com/CNN/status/915558235846963201
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  276. @Dave Pinsen
    The country musician who flipped on 2A after the attack noted that his band mates had concealed carry licenses and handguns in their bus, but they were "useless" since they figured they might be shot by cops if they brandished them.

    But even aside from that, what are the odds they would have been able to see the sniper and hit him accurately from the stage? It's not like the guy in the clock tower in Texas in the '60s: civilians shooting back at a high rise hotel would likely have just increased the total civilian death toll.

    Armed audience members that shot back might have pinned down Paddock until someone could get closer for a better shot.

    Pinning down Paddock with return fire might also have intimidated Paddock enough so that he couldn’t shoot as many people as he did.

    Other non-concert people in the hotel might have returned fire too if they too weren’t also hindered by the hotel’s no-gun policy.

    Business gun prohibition policies only stop honest people.

    Cops didn’t arrive to the party until it was way too late, which negates the musician’s phony claims.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Unless they had scoped centerfire rifles and knew how to use them, I would not want them returning fire. I especially would not want people armed with pistols shooting at windows 500 yards away and 100 yards up.
    , @Dave Pinsen

    Armed audience members that shot back might have pinned down Paddock until someone could get closer for a better shot.

    Pinning down Paddock with return fire might also have intimidated Paddock enough so that he couldn’t shoot as many people as he did.
     
    Sure, and they would have likely killed a bunch of innocent people at the hotel. There's an asymmetry: the sniper has a area target, and the good guys have a point target. And they may not even know where the point is.
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  277. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Don’t let the mentally ill own guns”

    What could be more obvious, more common-sensical? No one should own a gun until a Jewish practitioner of a Jewish pseudo-science gives the thumb’s up.

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  278. dwb says:
    @anonguy
    I have a question for somebody who knows.

    It sounds like this guy spent all his time on video poker, slots. Does anyone come out ahead on this? I don't think so, but I may be wrong on the video poker stuff.

    But if this guy was good enough to survive at poker for decades, wouldn't he have some tracks somewhere in the gaming community? Maybe did some tournament play back when or something.

    I don't know anyone who makes their living by gambling, so someone who knows about this stuff, would be nice to hear.

    I do not make my living gambling, but am a mathematician and more often than not win in Vegas (I stick to 21, and basic card counting is pretty easy).

    In the long run, no one is going to come out “ahead” in either video poker or slots. These are not really games requiring any skill – both are random without actual human opponents. The casinos can manipulate the percentage of take up or down, and the Gaming Commission regulate and validate the numbers.

    The House is not going to set the take so that their expected value is negative.

    Video poker is not really poker in the sense that you think of it; you cannot “bluff” the machine nor raise it out of the game. It is strictly a game where you win or lose based on getting certain hands.

    Of course, in any finite number of plays, you can come out on top, but over any large number of games, you are going to lose.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    According to a published interview, Paddock claimed to have some algorithm for playing video poker that would beat the machines and this was the secret to his fortune.. It is possible (but not likely) that there is some flaw in the video poker software such that there exists some strategy that has a long term positive return even if just playing the usual way would yield an advantage to the house and that Paddock had discovered that flaw. I doubt that is what happened but the guy was clearly not broke right up to the very end when he wired his girlfriend $100K.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    In the long run, no one is going to come out “ahead” in either video poker or slots. These are not really games requiring any skill – both are random without actual human opponents. The casinos can manipulate the percentage of take up or down, and the Gaming Commission regulate and validate the numbers.
     
    I try to explain this to my mother, who is convinced that she's "lucky" and that Borgata gives her free suites and hundreds of dollars in "comp" to spend on five lb. lobster dinners because that's how it makes money. "IT'S AN ALGORITHM" I tell her until blue in the face while she chuckles.

    Basically, everyone playing slots throws all of their gambling money in a big pile. The Casino takes a significant chunk of that and distributes it to its shareholders as profit and some to the State in compensation for its gaming license.

    The Casino also takes a percentage to pay for utilities, payroll, maintenance and supplies.

    And then they take another little bit out to give to certain people for "free" food and overhead for the "complimentary" rooms (which they rarely rent for the stated rate) to get them to run down there from suburban Philadelphia on a Thursday afternoon.

    And then they take the rest of the pile and distribute it capriciously to everyone who threw the money in the pile in the first place. The ones who get more money than they threw in the pile are "lucky" and it encourages them to come back to test their "luck" some more, and the ones who got less money than they threw in are "unlucky" or "on a losing streak" and get encouraged to come back and make up for their losses.

    It's so stupid it ought to be criminal (and it is criminal if you do it in your house).
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  279. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer