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iSteve commenter Triumph104 notes something interesting:

Asian families use golf to get their daughters into elite colleges.

For example, seven of the nine women on the Harvard golf team are Asian.

In 2017, Arizona State won its 8th NCAA Championship since 1990 and had no Asians on the team. This year ASU still has no Asians on the women’s golf team.

Arizona State is a vast school with 42,000 undergrads (it amusingly comes up in the Rick Singer scandal as the place parents are trying to keep their kids out of), but it’s serious about college golf (e.g., Phil Mickelson won 3 NCAA individual titles there — but Phil employed Rick Singer to get his daughter into Brown), especially girl’s golf, going back to Joanne Carner 60 years ago.

The current ASU women’s squad of six has five girls from Europe on it: Russian, Italian, Spaniard, German, and Northern Irish. Presumably, European golf dads like the idea of sending their daughters to play fall, winter, and spring in the desert sun, then come home to the high latitudes for the summer.

Interestingly, the ASU men’s squad is quite Asian. A lot of Asian-American boys play golf, although not that many pure Asian-Americans have broken through to pro success.

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  1. Anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    If Loughlin’s idiot daughter had gone to ASU, she would’ve gotten the party experience that she hoped to get at USC.

  2. There’s at least one member of our elite who went through ASU:

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Lugash
  3. When The History of this era is written, our descendants will be amazed to find out it all came down to golf.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  4. @Redneck farmer

    Assuming I write the history …

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @David
    , @Desiderius
  5. I checked Stanford women’s golf and it looks like 4 Asian American and one Chinese overseas student out of 9.

  6. That college is bigger than many towns.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    , @Noman
  7. bomag says:

    What is the value of golf at the college level? Does it have much of an audience? Seems something better handled at the club or intra-mural level. There’s the scholarship angle, but it looks like that has been hacked by foreigners.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  8. David says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Woody Guthrie could have written a very moving album of Golfocaust songs. At least a Tom Joad style trilogy.

  9. Anon000 says:

    All but one member of ASU’s team is from a foreign country. Only one member of Harvard’s team, one of the whites, is a foreigner.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  10. Realist says:
    @The Alarmist

    Heather Nauert is a journalist….she is not an elite….she just thinks she is, like all journalists.

  11. @Steve Sailer

    Better fire up that pen then.

    You’re winning.

    • Agree: Peter Johnson
  12. Joanne Gunderson Carner.

    I guess not all Scandinavian-Americans are evil after all.

  13. jcd1974 says:

    What would happen to the PGA if like the LPGA half of the top golfers were Asian (mainly Korean) with limited English?

    One reason why the LPGA has become irrelevant is that for the past decade its been dominated by Korean women. Fan interest has fallen off a cliff, with the number of tournaments shrinking and TV coverage disappearing.

    Could the PGA survive a similar scenario?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  14. So the intense Korean effort to produce golf prodigies was all about ivy?

    The best ones were smart enough to skip New England. It’s colder than their peninsula, and lacks the natural carbon monoxide they like to utilize for heating their homes. (Evidently radon isn’t as toasty warm.)

    Any HBD advantage the Korean girls have would be psychological. Jessica Korda thinks the difference is environmental, and this time the “nurture” explanation is probably right.

    “Honestly, I think they have a better developmental program for juniors,” Korda told reporters on Tuesday. “The Korean girls are dominating. They have a national team. Golf is an expensive sport. They pay for that. They travel to different countries and play a bunch.”

    You just have to have the nature to endure that nurture. The mindset. Hence, Tiger Woods and Mozart. Whose main genetic advantage was mad dads.

  15. Harvard and golf seems like a match, but I bet a lot of alums wished they had a football team like Alabama. Good courses in Alabama too., but you never see 105,000 fans lining the links.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  16. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    The current ASU women’s squad of six has five girls from Europe on it: Russian, Italian, Spaniard, German, and Northern Irish.

    College tennis is like that too. A lot of random colleges in the South that you wouldn’t think would attract any international students have tennis teams that are comprised mainly of European aspiring tennis pros who train at tennis academies in Florida and California and go to college somewhere warm so they can train year round.

    MIssissippi State’s men’s tennis team for example has 6 out of 8 players from Europe:

  17. Lugash says:
    @The Alarmist

    Shh… it’s the secret Deep State training school.

    (Actually that was the Thunderbird School of International Management, since acquired by ASU)

    Wasn’t the LPGA dominated by Asians a few years ago? You would think they would dominate college level as well. Small note: men’s golf lists height and weight, women’s doesn’t.

  18. Anon[372] • Disclaimer says:

    “Assuming I write the history …”

    Well, your chances might be a little better than you’d otherwise think based on the current trajectory of the West. Many great influencers died in obscurity, after all. And you might naively assume “Westerners”, however defined, will write history. But the way I see it, history will either be written by the Chinese or by a superintelligent AI. Both entities are less likely than your average Justin Trudeau to be a sniveling, self-important and delusional worm; I expect both to be more objective than our contemporary society. If the Chinese write history, then they’ll want to know how the collapse of their great rival occurred, which will be a watershed moment in the history of their nation. This website and a few others I could name would be ideal to study as they’ll likely start their studies in earnest around the year 2000 and leading up and through the present time. If the AI writes history … well, there’s no guarantee that we’ll be around or that it would bother telling anyone, but at least it will know the truth. Some of that truth can be found here, so there’s at least that. Perhaps you could start a side project where you write your own alternative history book of the modern era and publish it here for historical record? Opensource project?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  19. Anon[295] • Disclaimer says:

    Getting into college may be a secondary concern. Asians use golf to snag rich husbands for their daughters. Most men who golf have some degree of money or useful connections. It’s a short cut into the upper class.

  20. My son just graduated from ASU, it’s a good (albeit overpriced) school.
    BTW, judging from the coeds, if I had do-overs, I’d go there, too.

  21. Should be zero foreign-born players on state school athletic teams. Parents have paid nothing into the state system. With their degree, F student visa holders can and do oversay, then compete with US-born kids for jobs. E-Veeify would be helpful here as would visa entry/exit tracking, both disgracefully stalled in Congress for decades.

    Foreign-born golfer touts her skills on the links, promotes her diversity, and almost automatically become a more attractive job candidate than American graduates.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  22. Kevin Na is the prototypical Asian-American golf bro. His drives are so accurate he makes a ton of cuts and Top 25s, but doesn’t hit it long enough to get enough birdies and actually win tournaments.

  23. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Alabama won 2 of the last 6 ncaa mens titles.

    Womens golf is a joke.

    Im amazed Sailer would waste a day watching.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  24. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Its dominated by actual asians, few of whom play ncaa college golf.

    Women can mature and play young like tennis as the competition is feeble.

  25. One of our kids started to apply to ASU as a “safe school.” After we got the acceptance to CalPoly SLO, we stopped the admissions process in the middle for ASU.

    She got admitted to ASU anyway, with a big scholarship!


    She chose UCLA.

  26. @Lugash

    Shh… it’s the secret Deep State training school.


    With a special emphasis on There’s Something About Mary hairstyling.

  27. Alfa158 says:

    I don’t play golf so I don’t know much about the sport, but a couple of days ago I was in a tiki bar having lunch and a drink, and a golf game was on all the TV’s. I noticed there was an Italian golf player trying to get up to par, and suddenly realized something I should have noticed before, given my ethnic roots.
    I’m not aware that there has ever been a prominent golf player of Italian origin. Does anybody here know of one? And if not, why would that be? We’re not the world’s greatest athletes, but even so we have had a few famous athletes in other sports.

  28. @jcd1974

    What sells in women’s sports is nationalism: Team America vs. Team Foreigners, like in soccer.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  29. Alfa158 says:

    I’d love to see a history written by AIs considering the fact that computer programs keep getting caught making “rayciss” ( also known as race realist or objective) observations.
    I wonder to what extent a history written by AI’s would look much different from the contents of this website.

  30. I thought the comments about Harvard’s golf team were interesting, so I looked up Yale’s golf team.

    First, the women’s golf roster, which helpfully includes both photos and hometowns.

    Of the eight lady golfers, only one is clearly white, one is probably Indian-American, and six others are Asian.

    Three of the six Asians on the team are Asian-Americans (California, Texas, and Virginia). Two of the Asians are from China and Hong Kong (the latter of which has what I believe is a French surname, even if her photo is ambiguous as to whether she is of mixed blood). The final Asian femme fatale of the links is from Vancouver, Canada.

    The Yale Men’s golf roster has twelve students. Three of the twelve are from outside the U.S. One golfer attended school in China (since he attended the American School in Shanghai, it’s likely he’s an American citizen – it’s not uncommon for expats working abroad to have their children attend the ubiquitous American Schools.). One other golfer on the team is a Chinese-Canadian from British Columbia. The final foreign golfer is a white kid from England.

    Of the remaining nine golfers on the Yale Men’s team, only two are Asian-Americans (most likely Chinese-Americans, based on their surnames). The other seven are white, through and through. None are black or Hispanic.

  31. I took a quick glance at the various Yale women’s sports to see what degree Asian-Americans have managed to gain spots on their rosters. I looked only at Yale women’s sports because they have smaller rosters than the men, and so it’s easier to look them over quickly.

    Here’s the rundown:

    East Asian women are overrepresented in golf, fencing, and gymnastics.

    They are underrepresented in crew (1 member), cross country (1), field hockey (1), lacrosse (1), soccer (1), squash (1), and track and field (1).

    They appear to have no members on the Yale basketball, ice hockey, softball, volleyball, swim (surprisingly), and sailing teams.

    I glanced over the rosters quickly, and I didn’t look at most of the photos, so I might have missed a couple of names.

  32. njguy73 says:
    @Endgame Napoleon

    That college is bigger than
    – every town in Vermont other than Burlington
    – every town in Maine other than Portland
    – every town in Delaware other than Wilmington
    – every town in Wyoming other than Casper and Cheyenne
    – every town in South Dakota other than Sioux Falls and Rapid City

  33. Noman says:
    @Endgame Napoleon

    Towns have a population of 2,000 or less.
    ASU is larger than any town.

  34. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    I imagine part of the reason also is that golf is one of the few sports Asian girls can play decently. The popular girls team sports like soccer, softball, field hockey, etc. are quite competitive and Asian girls are generally too undersized for them.

  35. @Joe Guzzardi

    Well, she IS more attractive than the Male ones, you gotta admit.

  36. @Anonymous

    Steve suffers so we don’t have to. He doesn’t need a biography, he needs a hagiography.

  37. @Steve Sailer

    That and hot blondes taking their shirts off. The general principle is local pride, so UConn women for instance have a big following.

    But women doing men’s stuff in general has fallen off in popularity as we reach the maximum sexual polarity predicted (remarkably) by Strauss and Howe in 1992.

  38. Anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    “I wonder to what extent a history written by AI’s would look much different from the contents of this website.”

    You’d be shocked how much of history you think it true, isn’t – or at least deserves a second interpretation. Unz has written on that respect in terms of the second world war, but I just read a book review from Brad Griffith that puts the lead up to the Civil War in a different context as well (you’d think secession was a Southern thing, but it started in the North and flared up each time that region thought its influence would be reduced). An AI-written history would almost be the history of a different world to a lot of people.

  39. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    If mooching free golf equipment was a ranked aspect of the sport Joe D would have been a champion.

  40. @Alfa158

    Gene Sarazen (Born as Eugenio Saraceni in Harrison, New York,[3] his parents were poor Sicilian immigrants) was probably the 3rd best golfer of the 1920s-1930s.

    Italian-Americans tend to live pretty far north, and I think it’s harder to become a pro if you can’t play over winter as an adolescent.

    Other Italian-American golfers: Ken Venturi of San Francisco, Fred Couples of Seattle is a Coppola, and Phil Mickeslson’s mom is Italian.

    The Fazio family has designed many beautiful golf courses

    • Replies: @CJ
  41. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Harvard doesnt five athletic fellowships of course, perhaps some role in selection of undergraduates but doubt much.

    • Replies: @BJM
  42. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    In the mens game its hugely significant. Even in the recent era where non americans dominated for a decade, most had some undergrad experience in the US. Partially comes down to weather and good junior competition, learning how to play in the air on American courses.

    A prodigy like McIlroy doesnt need it, but most do.

  43. Curious HBD anecdote (not exactly about golf but not entirely off-topic): could someone explain why the classical music school in a 0.5% East Asian city (in the British Isles) is approximate 25% East Asian? Raw talent, musical proclivities, Tiger mothers, or some combination?

    • Replies: @res
  44. In Korea, Golf is considered a women’s sport. A friend of mine from princeton was born in Korea and is on the professional golf circuit right now

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  45. @Lugash

    Women’s sports rosters almost never list weight, regardless of sport.

  46. BJM says:

    Athletic prowess is a huge factor in admissions at Ivy League schools, including in relatively minor sports.

    It is a fact that a top male lacrosse recruit can be admitted to Harvard etc with an ACT of 27, vs roughly 35 for non-athletes. Coaches receive an allocation of special-case admits for each team. They still have to qualify, but admissions requirements are much lower than for the general student population.

    Sports always have been and will be the ultimate ticket-puncher at highly academic schools. And I have no problem with that at all. The student-athletes spend hundreds of hours a year practicing and training. Hey, it’s just another form of diversity!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  47. CJ says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Also Mark Calcavecchia, Rocco Mediate, Chris DiMarco.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  48. @BJM

    The big colleges like Harvard must have done a study of who donates the most later in life. I presume minor sport jocks tend to be successful in business and generous donors. Has anybody ever seen such a study?

    • Replies: @BJM
    , @Anonymous
    , @res
  49. BJM says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I am not sure about a study, but it is a known truth that former lacrosse players (sorry to be repetitive, it’s the sports experience I know) tend to be disproportianately successful.

    Part of it is the fact that the athletes tend to come from affluent families to begin with–same with other “minor” sports; not many poor players in the fencing, sailing, field hockey, even soccer applicant pool.

    Part of it is that alums of these sports build powerful networks and look out for each other. Johns Hopkins’ lacrosse pipeline to Wall St. is legendary in the sport.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  50. BJM says:

    I am not sure about a study, but it is a known truth that former lacrosse players (sorry to be repetitive, it’s the sports experience I know) tend to be disproportianately successful.

    Part of it is the fact that the athletes tend to come from affluent families to begin with–same with other “minor” sports; not many poor players in the fencing, sailing, field hockey, even soccer applicant pool.

    Part of it is that alums of these sports build powerful networks and look out for each other. Johns Hopkins’ lacrosse pipeline to Wall St. is legendary in the sport.

    • Replies: @ex-banker
  51. @BJM

    If only the JQers had played some sports and kept in touch, they’d understand just how extensive and varied white networks can be.

  52. BJM says:

    Let’s just say that these days I applaud any unapologetic WASPy network to Wall St., or other centers of money and power

  53. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @ginger bread man

    No, its not. Women are encouraged, but much like their Japanese cousins its subltle elite variation

  54. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    This goes without saying, Calc and demaro theyre Americans . silly discussion. Many others South americans try for etite Univeristy of Florida. A football school, but increasingly massively prestigius among the sout american elite, unlike south miami dont send your daughtrer miami.

  55. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Stevie, do you think these guys are groveling around for admissions cash after the first 10 bil ? fuck theyre hiriing sjdubss to give the shit awaym half the prob.

    Yes, the most prominent whites give large gifts , quasi ” muh undergrad esxperince”

    Steveareno you needa get with th modern age of 500 miillllllll

  56. res says:
    @Steve Sailer

    This is a small study of a single college, but gives some support for your theory.

    Using data on annual giving (between 1990 and 2004) for more than 22,000 active alumni from a highly selective liberal arts college, the authors employ a probit framework to analyze the likelihood of giving and a tobit framework to analyze the determinants of alumni generosity. Both the micro-level analysis and the statistical methodology allow the authors to test for differential impacts (by gender, age, or undergraduate involvement) of sports participation or a winning season on the propensity to give as well as on the generosity of alumni contributions. The results indicate that athletes are more likely to give and that they are more generous than their nonathlete counterparts, especially younger alumni who participated in one of the college’s historically most successful high-profile sports. A winning season in this particular sports program also leads to greater alumni giving and more generous gifts.

  57. @res

    Tonal languages – very interesting! That would give them an advantage perhaps with all the classical instruments at least for mid-range talent. These students are not geniuses, just selected for solid competence at classical music, and the East Asians stand out. I bet there is a genetic link which could be found via a GWAS study: tonal language ethnic background/classical music competence/polygenic index score differences.

    • Agree: res
  58. ex-banker says:

    Wrestlers among the top east coast schools and Ivies have built a similar pipeline into Wall Street. I swear every investment banker under 5-6 I’ve ever met wrestled in the Ivy League or ACC.

    • Replies: @BJM
  59. BJM says:

    That’s a very interesting comment. Come to think of it, I know one banker of short stature, and yep, he wrestled at Columbia.

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