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Is It Inappropriate to Culturally Appropriate St. Patrick's Day?
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From the Concord College Concordian:

Thinking critically about St. Patrick’s Day

BY JOHNNY WAGNER / IN COLUMNS, OPINIONS / MARCH 17, 2016

Similar to the way many non-Mexicans celebrate“Cinco de Mayo,”most of the people who celebrate St. Patrick’s Day are not Irish. St. Patrick’s Day seems like just a harmless day on which people go to parades and drink lots of beer, but is it actually an example of subtle cultural appropriation?

… The question, then, is why are some forms of cultural appropriation frowned upon while others are celebrated?

Everyday Feminism Magazine offers a deeper understanding of cultural appropriation: “a particular power dynamic in which members of a dominant culture take elements from a culture of people who have been systematically oppressed by that dominant group.” Basically, for there to be cultural appropriation, there must be a majority party that is taking important, celebrated aspects of another, more oppressed party. It is impossible for a person from an oppressed culture to practice cultural appropriation because, more times than not, oppressed people have to adopt aspects of the majority culture whether they want to or not. When Irish people first came to the United States, especially after the potato famine, they were oppressed and marginalized by the other people who already lived here. Furthermore, most of the people who celebrate St. Patrick’s Day now do not understand its cultural significance. Thus, St. Patrick’s Day is, in fact, an example of subtle cultural appropriation. …

Overall, whether one’s cultural appropriation is acceptable or not comes down to one simple question: is somebody from the culture you are appropriating offended by what you are wearing, doing or saying? If the answer is yes, then you are wrong. In this sense, St. Patrick’s Day is a difficult subject. Per sonally, I’ve not heard of an Irish person being offended by the way Americans celebrate St. Patrick’s Day — but that doesn’t mean every Irish person feels the same way.

Q. What if you are 5/16th Irish and are offended, but a person who is 17/32nd Irish isn’t offended?

A. The offended person is always right.

 
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  1. TL,DR: “Our vast lexicon of pejoratives may only by applied to Whitey.”

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  2. Bless his little heart, trying to apply that mess of pottage he got instead of a liberal arts education.

    Sorry Johnny, caveat emptor!

    Read More
    • Replies: @NOTA
    Imagine if your job was to write drivel like that all day.
  3. Overall, whether one’s cultural appropriation is acceptable or not comes down to one simple question: is somebody from the culture you are appropriating offended by what you are wearing, doing or saying? If the answer is yes, then you are wrong.

    Let’s see.

    Yes Johnny, we’re speakers of the English language and we’re offended by what you’re saying with it. Therefore you are wrong. Pls let us know when you’ve withdrawn your article.

    Read More
  4. “a majority party that is TAKING important, celebrated aspects of another”
    Wow, I never understood that these types actually consider this to be stealing – as if it is the theft of some physical thing in a robbery. The implication being that the ‘oppressed party’ is deprived of some thing: and even worse, the majority party gets to flaunt its own use of the ‘stolen’ custom in front of the oppressed party who can no longer participate – not even in private. (You’ve spoiled it for me forever!!!!)
    It’s like if your neighbor stole your car and drove it in front of you, and parked in the driveway right where you could see it – where you’d have to look at it everyday in his driveway! – and there’d be nothing you could do about it. You’d be out of a car and you’d never be able to get around again – ever.

    I’m going to guess that the author of the article didn’t mention the reason for St. Patrick’s Day because it’s the celebration of a Christian saint who happens to be the patron saint of Ireland. How dare ‘others’ celebrate the patron saint of Ireland!

    Read More
  5. Another post from The Concordian, which makes me think students like Johnny Wagner really have no idea how soon this could all be ending for them.

    http://theconcordian.org/2016/02/04/major-cuts-concordia-admin-announces-program-changes

    I doubt there are a lot of Irish to be offended on the Concordia campus in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro. I’m 1/8 Irish and not offended by St. Patrick’s Day, unless of course I can achieve some sort of grievance status by being offended. The portrayal of the Irish as loud, short tempered drunks is one of the most accurate stereotypes in American history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @passive-aggressivist
    point taken about irish on an ELCA campus but concordia college is in moorhead
    , @Desiderius
    Unfortunately, it doesn't look to be ending at all.

    All those cuts are from the actual liberal arts. Nothing from SJW bullshit.
    , @Ganderson
    This Concordia is in Moorhead. There is also Concordia University in St. Paul. As for the Irish on campus you are probably right, but the St. Paul of my youth was run by the Irish. I'd assume that they have mostly decamped to the burbs, but no shortage of Hibernians in the Twin Cities metro.

    On another note the Massachusetts -Lowell River Hawks culturally appropriated the Fighting Irish 5-1 in the Hockey East quarter finals. Erin Go Bragh indeed!
  6. I love the Irish; I have a bit of Irish ancestry. My Irish ancestor was a Sullivan and he came in through North Carolina sometime before the American colonists seceded from the British Empire. The Southern Irish are different creatures from the Boston, New York, Chicago and Philadelphia Irish. It goes beyond the shanty or lace curtain distinctions some people make. Maybe they came from different parts of Ireland?

    The Irish are now presenting themselves as a problem for the Patriotic GOP. In the USA, government workers of Irish ancestry in the Northern states vote for the Democrats to protect their jobs and benefits.

    Irish politician whores such as Paul Ryan actively push for open borders mass immigration. Paul Ryan is a member in good standing of the GOP Cheap Labor Faction.

    Irish corporate propaganda whores such as Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly never strenuously object to mass immigration. Hannity and O’Reilly are also whores for the Neo-Cons who push endless war in the Middle East. Hannity and O’Reilly are from New York, so you know they tailor their foreign policy views to be in line with New York Jews.

    Irish politicians go on and on about how they will protect illegal alien invaders by declaring their cities or states to be so-called “sanctuary jurisdictions” or “sanctuary cities.” Is there anybody else who wishes the Irish would shut the hell up with their mass immigration boosterism malarkey?

    HAPPY SAINT PATRICK’S DAY TO ALL THE IRISH WHO WANT AN IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM; THE IRISH WHO PUSH MASS IMMIGRATION CAN GO TO HELL

    Read More
  7. @Desiderius
    Bless his little heart, trying to apply that mess of pottage he got instead of a liberal arts education.

    Sorry Johnny, caveat emptor!

    Imagine if your job was to write drivel like that all day.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    It comes naturally to some because it is nothing more than a brain dump.
  8. So does this mean that China has to stop using all Western technology now if Westerners are offended?

    Read More
  9. Steve, at first I was going to chide you for going after some clueless college kid, who, after all, is being pusnished pretty harshly by having to live in Fargo for four years.

    But then I poked around thoughtful (check out his picture) Johnny’s articles, and he turns out to be a full blown O’Brien. Check this passage about Political Correctness:

    Imagine if an entire generation never heard a slur of any kind. If our children never heard us say offensive words, they would never use them. Their children, too, would have no vocabulary for oppression. Oppressive words would, over time, cease to exist. It is for this reason that political correctness is so crucial to the world. The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. Racism itself could very well become an institution of the past. Isn’t that worth taking the extra minute to speak with consideration? So I am sorry, Mr. Trump, but if America is ever to move past discrimination, we must find the time to be politically correct.

    This guy understands very well that limiting a person’s vocabulary limits their ability to think. And so much more dangerously, he believes that he’s on the side of angels, which means the ends justify the means.

    Read More
    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    He's like Godfrey Elfwick's more verbose brother.
    , @Steve Sailer
    In general, I try to pick on the prestigious. But this guy is so ingenuous that he really distills the current conventional wisdom.

    Of course, he might possibly be doing a more verbose version of Godfrey Elfwick.

    , @Buffalo Joe
    If this was my son, I would be sorry that I hadn't place him on the baby lazy susan.
    , @Anonymous
    "He is too intelligent. He sees too clearly and speaks too plainly."
  10. According to this doctrine, it is an act of immense evil to wear a non-white’s funny hat, but an act of supreme good to ethnically cleanse whites and their culture out of existence in their native lands.

    Read More
  11. What isn’t mentioned in Mr. Wagner’s incisive analysis is the”oppressed” (whatever that even MEANS) are the only ones who can claim legitimate offense. Whites can’t be offended regardless how many Officially Recognized Crybaby Class jackasses spit in our face, since we’re the oppressors. Or, more accurately, we must all pretend to believe whites are the oppressors.

    That’s why every loser from every corner of the earth is dying to get here. Oppressor, oschmessor. They know whites are soft-headed soft touches for all the guilt/gelt scams.

    Read More
  12. St. Patrick drove the “snakes” (Jews and pagans) from Ireland. In other words, he was literally Hitler.

    Read More
  13. Q. What if you are 5/16th Irish and are offended, but a person who is 17/32nd Irish isn’t offended?

    I’m 1/4 Ashkenazi, and I’m offended by everything.

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  14. @Barnard
    Another post from The Concordian, which makes me think students like Johnny Wagner really have no idea how soon this could all be ending for them.

    http://theconcordian.org/2016/02/04/major-cuts-concordia-admin-announces-program-changes

    I doubt there are a lot of Irish to be offended on the Concordia campus in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro. I'm 1/8 Irish and not offended by St. Patrick's Day, unless of course I can achieve some sort of grievance status by being offended. The portrayal of the Irish as loud, short tempered drunks is one of the most accurate stereotypes in American history.

    point taken about irish on an ELCA campus but concordia college is in moorhead

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    My mistake. There is also a Concordia in St. Paul, but you are right, this is the one in Moorhead.
  15. Cultural assimilation was something looked upon favorably–even encouraged, at one time. The resulting ‘melting pot’ was considered a positive attribute of America, i.e. everyone getting along by the sharing of cultural artifacts, traditions, cuisine, etc.

    Now it’s called cultural appropriation and demands Balkanization. Do theses folks want the Irish to go back to Ireland?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Laugh Track

    Cultural assimilation was something looked upon favorably–even encouraged, at one time. The resulting ‘melting pot’ was considered a positive attribute of America, i.e. everyone getting along by the sharing of cultural artifacts, traditions, cuisine, etc.

    Now it’s called cultural appropriation and demands Balkanization. Do theses folks want the Irish to go back to Ireland?
     
    Excellent point. What constitutes the left these days (the coalition of the fringes) has an array of self-contradictory cookie-cutter formulas and axioms that they try to apply in every possible situation. Whiteness "does not exist", but Whites are the ultimate "oppressors". Gender is "socially constructed", but Women are an essential category.

    Critical theory is the postmodern Tower of Babble. Unfortunately, those doing most of the babbling fail to realize that it is all just "theory". It's a belief system. Thanks, but I've got my own beliefs.
  16. I appropriated some green beer over lunch and didn’t feel the slightest but guilty. When I relieved myself later on, I didn’t feel guilty then, either.

    Seriously, folks, when does the premise of appropriation get exposed and roundly ridiculed to drive it back down the grievance memory hole? Maybe I am of the wrong generation, but I have a difficult time suppressing a laugh, or even a raised eyebrow, at what passes for critical discourse in campus. So much of the angst seems like the Emperor’s New Toilet Paper.

    Read More
  17. If a non-Irish person wants to culturally appropriate St. Patrick’s Day, I’m fine with it so long as they buy me a beer.

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  18. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Steve, at first I was going to chide you for going after some clueless college kid, who, after all, is being pusnished pretty harshly by having to live in Fargo for four years.

    But then I poked around thoughtful (check out his picture) Johnny's articles, and he turns out to be a full blown O'Brien. Check this passage about Political Correctness:

    Imagine if an entire generation never heard a slur of any kind. If our children never heard us say offensive words, they would never use them. Their children, too, would have no vocabulary for oppression. Oppressive words would, over time, cease to exist. It is for this reason that political correctness is so crucial to the world. The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. Racism itself could very well become an institution of the past. Isn’t that worth taking the extra minute to speak with consideration? So I am sorry, Mr. Trump, but if America is ever to move past discrimination, we must find the time to be politically correct.



    This guy understands very well that limiting a person's vocabulary limits their ability to think. And so much more dangerously, he believes that he's on the side of angels, which means the ends justify the means.

    He’s like Godfrey Elfwick’s more verbose brother.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    "...The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. ..." - Godfrey Elfwick, Random brain dump.

    "The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible." - George Orwell, 1984.

  19. @Barnard
    Another post from The Concordian, which makes me think students like Johnny Wagner really have no idea how soon this could all be ending for them.

    http://theconcordian.org/2016/02/04/major-cuts-concordia-admin-announces-program-changes

    I doubt there are a lot of Irish to be offended on the Concordia campus in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro. I'm 1/8 Irish and not offended by St. Patrick's Day, unless of course I can achieve some sort of grievance status by being offended. The portrayal of the Irish as loud, short tempered drunks is one of the most accurate stereotypes in American history.

    Unfortunately, it doesn’t look to be ending at all.

    All those cuts are from the actual liberal arts. Nothing from SJW bullshit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    Schools like this are not on a sustainable path. Cuts will start with the liberal arts, but at $50,000 a year to attend and only a $100 million endowment they aren't going to make it long term.
  20. @passive-aggressivist
    point taken about irish on an ELCA campus but concordia college is in moorhead

    My mistake. There is also a Concordia in St. Paul, but you are right, this is the one in Moorhead.

    Read More
  21. Thinking critically = in the real world your only job aptitude is burger flipper and the robots will be eliminating this in five years. I would like to take the current crop of critical thinkers and do a Red Guard on them. Force them to live on cabbage and pig farms for two years where if you don’t work you don’t eat.

    Read More
  22. @Desiderius
    Unfortunately, it doesn't look to be ending at all.

    All those cuts are from the actual liberal arts. Nothing from SJW bullshit.

    Schools like this are not on a sustainable path. Cuts will start with the liberal arts, but at $50,000 a year to attend and only a $100 million endowment they aren’t going to make it long term.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep. Moderately ranked private colleges are likely not long for this world. Who pays $50k a year to go to a school with reputation no better than a $20k public university.

    The Harvards and Georgetowns will be just fine. The Concordias, not so much. Go to UofM - or UofM-Morris if you want a small school.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    So true. And if you try to explain to the faculty members that they themselves are ensuring their own unemployment, they stare at you with incredulity in their eyes.
  23. As grandson of County Leitrim types on mom’s side, a half Irish dad and son in law of Belfasters, Irish people aren’t offended because they aren’t pussies and don’t waste their time on total bullshit.

    Read More
  24. @Steve Sailer
    He's like Godfrey Elfwick's more verbose brother.

    “…The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. …” – Godfrey Elfwick, Random brain dump.

    “The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible.” – George Orwell, 1984.

    Read More
  25. Good Lord. Way to f up one of the few pleasant, harmless, widely loved, public celebrations left.

    Should we have an Oppressed Irish Gender-Neutral Day of Reflection instead? We can get Sinead O’Connor to lecture us for half an hour. Then, say, Mary Daly. And we can meditate on the Hegemonic Corporate legacy of Leprechauns, and how Shamrocks were Neo-Colonial symbols of Transgender negation.

    What fun. No green beer please. Kale salad will be provided.

    Read More
  26. Re: “cultural appropriation,” the old joke might be relevant:

    Q – what’s the difference between St. Patrick’s Day and Martin Luther King Day?

    A – On St. Patrick’s Day, everyone wants to be Irish.

    Read More
  27. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Steve, at first I was going to chide you for going after some clueless college kid, who, after all, is being pusnished pretty harshly by having to live in Fargo for four years.

    But then I poked around thoughtful (check out his picture) Johnny's articles, and he turns out to be a full blown O'Brien. Check this passage about Political Correctness:

    Imagine if an entire generation never heard a slur of any kind. If our children never heard us say offensive words, they would never use them. Their children, too, would have no vocabulary for oppression. Oppressive words would, over time, cease to exist. It is for this reason that political correctness is so crucial to the world. The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. Racism itself could very well become an institution of the past. Isn’t that worth taking the extra minute to speak with consideration? So I am sorry, Mr. Trump, but if America is ever to move past discrimination, we must find the time to be politically correct.



    This guy understands very well that limiting a person's vocabulary limits their ability to think. And so much more dangerously, he believes that he's on the side of angels, which means the ends justify the means.

    In general, I try to pick on the prestigious. But this guy is so ingenuous that he really distills the current conventional wisdom.

    Of course, he might possibly be doing a more verbose version of Godfrey Elfwick.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Give him time. From his writings, he has big future ahead of him at The Atlantic.
    , @jtgw

    In general, I try to pick on the prestigious.

     

    Keep punching up!
  28. An honor to welcome the Taoiseach of Ireland, @EndaKennyTD to the @WhiteHouse today

    A great St Patrick’s day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    After the event, the Éireann delegation had to take a nap to still their nerves because of the Americans' offensive wearing of green ties.
    , @Coemgen
    To all (especially Sean Spicer), taoiseach is pronounced "tea shuck" not "tea such."
    , @Matra
    A great St Patrick’s day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.

    Really? Enda Kenny, the Irish PM, used the opportunity to lecture Americans on immigration, saying St Patrick was an immigrant along with the usual "refuse on teeming shore" nonsense.
  29. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Steve, at first I was going to chide you for going after some clueless college kid, who, after all, is being pusnished pretty harshly by having to live in Fargo for four years.

    But then I poked around thoughtful (check out his picture) Johnny's articles, and he turns out to be a full blown O'Brien. Check this passage about Political Correctness:

    Imagine if an entire generation never heard a slur of any kind. If our children never heard us say offensive words, they would never use them. Their children, too, would have no vocabulary for oppression. Oppressive words would, over time, cease to exist. It is for this reason that political correctness is so crucial to the world. The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. Racism itself could very well become an institution of the past. Isn’t that worth taking the extra minute to speak with consideration? So I am sorry, Mr. Trump, but if America is ever to move past discrimination, we must find the time to be politically correct.



    This guy understands very well that limiting a person's vocabulary limits their ability to think. And so much more dangerously, he believes that he's on the side of angels, which means the ends justify the means.

    If this was my son, I would be sorry that I hadn’t place him on the baby lazy susan.

    Read More
  30. Ah, yes, the fun loving Irish are open to all being one of them. I remember Leroy Kelly, the great NFL running back, who was a darker shade of green. Years ago I introduced an Irish ironworker acquaintance of mine to a delightful Irish girl. They hit it off and even spoke of marriage. They invited me to join them for a few beers at an Irish bar in south Buffalo. I walked in the door and a beer bottle sailed past my head and broke on the door frame… “Who invited the dago?” I turned and left, so much for ethnic mixing. PS Monday is St. Joseph’s Day.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    Irish, Italian: might have been a big deal at one time but it sure seems like nothing today.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    , @Brutusale
    Indeed. As a non-Irish who grew up on the South Shore of Boston, where 16 of the 20 towns in America with the most Irishmen live are located, Evacuation Day* has always been the one where the odds of getting hit in the head with a bottle spiked.

    I've been wearing orange on March 17th since my freshman year in high school.

    *Evacuation Day is the misdirection the micks in Boston city government used to give Suffolk County employees a paid holiday.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_Day_(Massachusetts)
  31. Cultural appropriation is a concept devised, discussed and defined entirely by certain more Individuals among the putative appropriators.

    These ruminations have the tone and motivations of a Miss Manners column.

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  32. @Clyde
    An honor to welcome the Taoiseach of Ireland, @EndaKennyTD to the @WhiteHouse today

    A great St Patrick's day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/842467917639913472

    http://bit.ly/2mxjU4O --- VIDEO!

    After the event, the Éireann delegation had to take a nap to still their nerves because of the Americans’ offensive wearing of green ties.

    Read More
  33. @Steve Sailer
    In general, I try to pick on the prestigious. But this guy is so ingenuous that he really distills the current conventional wisdom.

    Of course, he might possibly be doing a more verbose version of Godfrey Elfwick.

    Give him time. From his writings, he has big future ahead of him at The Atlantic.

    Read More
  34. My always thoughtful Russian neighbor just walked by with her dog when I was outside smoking, and she hails to me “Happy Birthday Patrick! Today is your Birthday!”

    So I guess that would be cultural misappropriation. And God bless her.

    It seemed like about halfway through my college days five or six years ago there was a little bit of a move to make Cinco de Mayo a May St. Patrick’s Day, but it didn’t feel like it had the stuff to ever catch on, and seems not to have. That’s not surprising I suppose. What’s Cinco de Mayo about again?

    I tell you what though, if you got the Irish in you, and you catch the Irish bug, it sort of takes you over; and swimming in so much lore and so many mysteries nothing else comes to seem to matter a mite you would almost say. Yeats was no dupe, and in one of his most poignant passages late in his career, the words my recall can’t do a justice to at the moment, he had to satisfy himself that what might be true, and what might be myth, must be passed over by the most objective judge— and that was his way of saying that some of the magic is undeniably true.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    It's actually the date of his death, not birth.
  35. “The offended person is always right”

    Only if they’re both white. Or equal with respect to intersectionality. If a Muslim offends a white woman, for instance, the Muslim is right.

    Read More
  36. @Barnard
    Schools like this are not on a sustainable path. Cuts will start with the liberal arts, but at $50,000 a year to attend and only a $100 million endowment they aren't going to make it long term.

    Yep. Moderately ranked private colleges are likely not long for this world. Who pays $50k a year to go to a school with reputation no better than a $20k public university.

    The Harvards and Georgetowns will be just fine. The Concordias, not so much. Go to UofM – or UofM-Morris if you want a small school.

    Read More
  37. St. Patrick was not Irish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    Indeed. He was an Englishman enslaved as a teen by Irish raiders who returned after escaping back to England, if I recall correctly.
    , @Coemgen
    St. Patrick was British. In other words, he would likely have been nearly indistinguishable from the Irish except that he spoke a different dialect of Celtic than they spoke.
    , @Pat Casey
    I take it you believe in the myth that Irish people generally don't know that. I will always remember Bertrand Russell for pointedly propagating that myth in his History of Western Philosophy. Addressing the people who don't know anything as the first ones who need to be enlightened is that "wise as serpents" business gone bad I'm afraid. "For all the rest of you, these Irish folks are all stupid."

    The most probable single reason we remember St. Patrick is because he was not Irish---the Good Word that came from a foreign land logically needed a foreigner to mythologize.

    The hard truth for most Irish-Americans to hear is that the shamrock doesn't exist, any three leaf weed will do.

    And yet, any three leaf weed will do.

    How's that homework comin Mr. Smug?
  38. When we were young, my grandparents warned my brother and me about the dangers of dating Papist Irish girls. In doing so, they were just trying to preserve and pass on their Puritan and Anabaptist culture, which had brought their ancestors to America more than three centuries ago. I think they disapproved of cultural appropriations of this type. They certainly disapproved of drinking. I am more broadminded.

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  39. @Pat Casey
    My always thoughtful Russian neighbor just walked by with her dog when I was outside smoking, and she hails to me "Happy Birthday Patrick! Today is your Birthday!"

    So I guess that would be cultural misappropriation. And God bless her.

    It seemed like about halfway through my college days five or six years ago there was a little bit of a move to make Cinco de Mayo a May St. Patrick's Day, but it didn't feel like it had the stuff to ever catch on, and seems not to have. That's not surprising I suppose. What's Cinco de Mayo about again?

    I tell you what though, if you got the Irish in you, and you catch the Irish bug, it sort of takes you over; and swimming in so much lore and so many mysteries nothing else comes to seem to matter a mite you would almost say. Yeats was no dupe, and in one of his most poignant passages late in his career, the words my recall can't do a justice to at the moment, he had to satisfy himself that what might be true, and what might be myth, must be passed over by the most objective judge--- and that was his way of saying that some of the magic is undeniably true.

    It’s actually the date of his death, not birth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    That's the only reason it was worth mentioning in my mind. Pointing that out would have been an injustice to something like a sensibility. The meaning sort of dies when you make the sacred glib. Here's a question for you my faithful Catholic friend: when does the Mystery of God get finished?
  40. This is of course misunderstanding the whole concept — Irish culture can’t be appropriated, they’re white!

    Read More
  41. This may be disputed by those with IRA membership but overwhelmingly Anglo Saxons do not consider Irish (or other Celts ) as”the Other ”
    It may be different with Mexicans

    It is worth noting that in other Anglophone countries there is not the big distinction made between AngloSaxons and Celts that you find in the US
    I think the DNA evidence supports this

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bugg
    Grew up in outer borough NYC and have lived around Irish people in my family and around me. When traveling in Dublin and Belfast a few years back, could not much tell the difference between Protestants and Catholics in both cities. The Belfast accent (different from the brogue in most other places) was the same for everyone in Belfast.No real physical difference nor dress, nor anything else. And really as Ireland has become less religious seems to matter a lot less on the ground. Would guess a DNA test on the populations of Ireland who identify as either Catholic/Irish or Protestant/Scot-Irish would be very close to indistinguishable. And that might also be true of all the white people of the British Isles.
  42. @Buffalo Joe
    Ah, yes, the fun loving Irish are open to all being one of them. I remember Leroy Kelly, the great NFL running back, who was a darker shade of green. Years ago I introduced an Irish ironworker acquaintance of mine to a delightful Irish girl. They hit it off and even spoke of marriage. They invited me to join them for a few beers at an Irish bar in south Buffalo. I walked in the door and a beer bottle sailed past my head and broke on the door frame... "Who invited the dago?" I turned and left, so much for ethnic mixing. PS Monday is St. Joseph's Day.

    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    Irish, Italian: might have been a big deal at one time but it sure seems like nothing today.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    Even the most enthusiastic white racialists have been saying for decades that Italians etc are white and should be included. Heck, Italy was an axis power.
    , @anonymous

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.
     
    The reason Italians, Irish Catholics, Germans and every other European immigrant group received a hard time was because when they arrived they were different. They spoke a different language, ate different foods, wore different clothing and had different mannerisms, etc.

    Even kids attending a new school have to go through some sort of social ostracism before they are fully accepted by the student body. Why would we think it would be any different for immigrants?
    , @IAmCorn
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    You're probably right. I've read on some alt right blogs or twitters you don't really have "white nationalism" or "white pride" in Europe. You have German pride, Serbian pride, Irish pride, Polish pride etc. In America however whites seem to have largely coalesced into an American or White American identity, even if one does occasionally see an Irish or Italian flag on someone's front porch.
    , @slumber_j
    Well, I'm a little over the 5/16ths Irish that Steve indicates--in some incalculable way that leaves me saying that I'm about a third Irish, which is both counterintuitive and true. In fact, I'm what I guess I'd call classic American Northwestern-European Mix: part 17th c. English Puritan Yankee, part Irish, part German and a little Scottish, plus (in my case) a tiny soupçon of Swiss in there for color.

    I have to imagine Italian counts by now, looking at white demography in the US, as must Irish. Or maybe I'm wrong. But I think it would be odd to exclude those ethnicities at this point.

  43. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Basically, for there to be cultural appropriation, there must be a majority party that is taking important, celebrated aspects of another, more oppressed party. It is impossible for a person from an oppressed culture to practice cultural appropriation because, more times than not, oppressed people have to adopt aspects of the majority culture whether they want to or not.

    Brilliant. They are always one step ahead. It’s no wonder that every time I engage in one of these cultural appropriation discussions and bring up that non-Europeans appropriate daily the advances of the European world, such as planes, trains, automobiles, computers, the net, etc., etc.; it invariable falls upon deaf ears.

    Now I have the answer. The oppressed cannot culturally appropriate even when they culturally appropriate. Check and mate!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Same thing with racism. We are told,

    It's literally impossible to be racist to a white person.

     

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dear-white-people-please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real

    Not just impossible, but LITERALLY impossible.


    This asymmetry is really very convenient. If I call you a n-word, then I'm a racist, but if you call me a cracker or a honky, it's not racism. If I wear an Afro, that's cultural appropriation, but if you wear shoes, that's no problem.

    Moldbug says that black people are best understood as royalty ("we wuz kangs"). If a commoner tried to wear the royal purple or address the king as Yo, Henry! - off with his head. But vice versa, no problem.
  44. @Twinkie
    St. Patrick was not Irish.

    Indeed. He was an Englishman enslaved as a teen by Irish raiders who returned after escaping back to England, if I recall correctly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @O'Feeeney
    You could maybe call him a Briton, or a Welshman, or a Roman, but not English. The Anglos and Saxons hadn't left the continent yet.
  45. @Twinkie
    It's actually the date of his death, not birth.

    That’s the only reason it was worth mentioning in my mind. Pointing that out would have been an injustice to something like a sensibility. The meaning sort of dies when you make the sacred glib. Here’s a question for you my faithful Catholic friend: when does the Mystery of God get finished?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    The Sacred is the time without a place and the place without time.
  46. We’ve already mooted it about the Jews. What about the Irish?

    Really White? Or not? ;)

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    They're whiter than most whites, in the absolute 'pale' sense.
    , @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    "What about the Irish?
    Really White? Or not? ;) "
    Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy was black but authentic Irish. This confirms that the Irish are in fact Black.
  47. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    And given that St Pats has devolved into a celebration of drinking, its ok by me, but hardly something to get too possessive about.

    I lived in a college town that had the gamut of ethnic festivals with booths, etc.

    The American Indian one simply served beer. There must have been at least one other aspect of it, but I don’t remember. It was cheap also. Excuse me, a good value. So I was likely hammered.

    Read More
  48. @Frau Katze
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    Irish, Italian: might have been a big deal at one time but it sure seems like nothing today.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    Even the most enthusiastic white racialists have been saying for decades that Italians etc are white and should be included. Heck, Italy was an axis power.

    Read More
  49. @Barnard
    Schools like this are not on a sustainable path. Cuts will start with the liberal arts, but at $50,000 a year to attend and only a $100 million endowment they aren't going to make it long term.

    So true. And if you try to explain to the faculty members that they themselves are ensuring their own unemployment, they stare at you with incredulity in their eyes.

    Read More
  50. @Barnard
    Another post from The Concordian, which makes me think students like Johnny Wagner really have no idea how soon this could all be ending for them.

    http://theconcordian.org/2016/02/04/major-cuts-concordia-admin-announces-program-changes

    I doubt there are a lot of Irish to be offended on the Concordia campus in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro. I'm 1/8 Irish and not offended by St. Patrick's Day, unless of course I can achieve some sort of grievance status by being offended. The portrayal of the Irish as loud, short tempered drunks is one of the most accurate stereotypes in American history.

    This Concordia is in Moorhead. There is also Concordia University in St. Paul. As for the Irish on campus you are probably right, but the St. Paul of my youth was run by the Irish. I’d assume that they have mostly decamped to the burbs, but no shortage of Hibernians in the Twin Cities metro.

    On another note the Massachusetts -Lowell River Hawks culturally appropriated the Fighting Irish 5-1 in the Hockey East quarter finals. Erin Go Bragh indeed!

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  51. @guest
    "The offended person is always right"

    Only if they're both white. Or equal with respect to intersectionality. If a Muslim offends a white woman, for instance, the Muslim is right.

    What if a white Muslim offends a black Irishman ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    John Walker Lindh would be more PC than Phil Lynott, because Islam is now very PC. Plus, Lynott hung out with mostly whites that in America would be seen as rednecks.

    Now if Lynott had been gay, he might get the PC nod.
    , @Anon
    They walk into a bar, where they meet a drunken rabbi who says "That's funny, you don't look Jewish " ...
    , @Jack Highlands
    I know your comment's for laughs, but I gotta sperg out anyway: there's no question the poster-child skin color trumps almost everything.

    I've met a few Albanians and Bosniaks, and I can openly if gently tease them on their tippling slivovica and palinka and their lip-service to the Koran, and refer to Islam as a desert Arab's religion, and get a laugh out of them. I get away with it because I know them pretty well, so much do they remind me of my Christian Slavic in-laws.

    If one of these white Muslims was to get into an offensive public debate with a black 'Irishman' - say a second-generation-in-Dublin young Nigerian who has had time to get the usual chip on shoulder, there is no doubt who wins in the court of liberal opinion.

    , @WowJustWow
    Let's see, if the Black Irish are descendants of the sailors of the Spanish Armada, that means they're Hispanic... So we already had a Diversity James Bond in Pierce Brosnan, and we're not obligated to cast Idris Elba as the next one... Oh wait, I forgot that Hispanic officially means "from any majority Spanish-speaking country -- except Spain". This stuff is really hard! It's almost enough to make you want to switch your major from grievance studies to nuclear physics.
  52. @sb
    This may be disputed by those with IRA membership but overwhelmingly Anglo Saxons do not consider Irish (or other Celts ) as"the Other "
    It may be different with Mexicans

    It is worth noting that in other Anglophone countries there is not the big distinction made between AngloSaxons and Celts that you find in the US
    I think the DNA evidence supports this

    Grew up in outer borough NYC and have lived around Irish people in my family and around me. When traveling in Dublin and Belfast a few years back, could not much tell the difference between Protestants and Catholics in both cities. The Belfast accent (different from the brogue in most other places) was the same for everyone in Belfast.No real physical difference nor dress, nor anything else. And really as Ireland has become less religious seems to matter a lot less on the ground. Would guess a DNA test on the populations of Ireland who identify as either Catholic/Irish or Protestant/Scot-Irish would be very close to indistinguishable. And that might also be true of all the white people of the British Isles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A lot of Scots Irish from Scotland appear to be descended from a Dark Ages Irish invasion of Scotland.
    , @Pat Casey
    That's interesting. But I think Irish Catholics in Belfast would disagree, strongly to some extent, stronger in counties like Tyrone is my understanding. Irish Catholics in Dublin would probably disagree, less strongly, because lots of Irish wind up in Dublin and its always getting to be more of a melting pot, plus a lot of the "Anglo-Irish" in Dublin were just Irish who converted somewhere along the line. But last time my brother got back from Dublin he mentioned the pubs that don't cater to the tourists where you can't understand the patrons a bit their accents are so thick. There are definitely Irish Catholic neighborhoods in Belfast and elsewhere in the north where the kids look different than the Protestants to an outsider's eye by my word of mouth. The term you will hear back here in the states is Potato Face. And those are generally the pockets where the Irish language has survived as strong as anywhere in the West and maybe stronger. One thing everyone in Ireland seems to agree on however outdated the truth may be is that every county has its own accent. If you could observe all they still get up to do for The 12th in Ulster you would see the depth of division is still not nothing no way.
  53. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Frau Katze
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    Irish, Italian: might have been a big deal at one time but it sure seems like nothing today.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    The reason Italians, Irish Catholics, Germans and every other European immigrant group received a hard time was because when they arrived they were different. They spoke a different language, ate different foods, wore different clothing and had different mannerisms, etc.

    Even kids attending a new school have to go through some sort of social ostracism before they are fully accepted by the student body. Why would we think it would be any different for immigrants?

    Read More
  54. @Broski
    Indeed. He was an Englishman enslaved as a teen by Irish raiders who returned after escaping back to England, if I recall correctly.

    You could maybe call him a Briton, or a Welshman, or a Roman, but not English. The Anglos and Saxons hadn’t left the continent yet.

    Read More
  55. @Bugg
    Grew up in outer borough NYC and have lived around Irish people in my family and around me. When traveling in Dublin and Belfast a few years back, could not much tell the difference between Protestants and Catholics in both cities. The Belfast accent (different from the brogue in most other places) was the same for everyone in Belfast.No real physical difference nor dress, nor anything else. And really as Ireland has become less religious seems to matter a lot less on the ground. Would guess a DNA test on the populations of Ireland who identify as either Catholic/Irish or Protestant/Scot-Irish would be very close to indistinguishable. And that might also be true of all the white people of the British Isles.

    A lot of Scots Irish from Scotland appear to be descended from a Dark Ages Irish invasion of Scotland.

    Read More
  56. @Frau Katze
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    Irish, Italian: might have been a big deal at one time but it sure seems like nothing today.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    You’re probably right. I’ve read on some alt right blogs or twitters you don’t really have “white nationalism” or “white pride” in Europe. You have German pride, Serbian pride, Irish pride, Polish pride etc. In America however whites seem to have largely coalesced into an American or White American identity, even if one does occasionally see an Irish or Italian flag on someone’s front porch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Well, if you're 1/4 German, 1/4 Irish, 1/4 British, and 1/4 Polish, what's your pride? You're a little of each, and some of those heritages hated each other. I can see where the 'generic white American' identity comes from.

    And, honestly, it wasn't a bad one. We put a man on the moon, won both of the world wars we were in (OK, with a lot of of help from everyone else), defeated Communism, went from a bunch of scrawny colonies to a superpower in a few centuries...
  57. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of Scots Irish from Scotland appear to be descended from a Dark Ages Irish invasion of Scotland.

    Dal Riada.

    Read More
  58. @Pat Casey
    That's the only reason it was worth mentioning in my mind. Pointing that out would have been an injustice to something like a sensibility. The meaning sort of dies when you make the sacred glib. Here's a question for you my faithful Catholic friend: when does the Mystery of God get finished?

    The Sacred is the time without a place and the place without time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    That's pretty but the sacred is also that which you don't interfere with.
  59. @Clyde
    An honor to welcome the Taoiseach of Ireland, @EndaKennyTD to the @WhiteHouse today

    A great St Patrick's day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/842467917639913472

    http://bit.ly/2mxjU4O --- VIDEO!

    To all (especially Sean Spicer), taoiseach is pronounced “tea shuck” not “tea such.”

    Read More
  60. @Joe Magarac
    We've already mooted it about the Jews. What about the Irish?

    Really White? Or not? ;)

    They’re whiter than most whites, in the absolute ‘pale’ sense.

    Read More
  61. @IAmCorn
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    You're probably right. I've read on some alt right blogs or twitters you don't really have "white nationalism" or "white pride" in Europe. You have German pride, Serbian pride, Irish pride, Polish pride etc. In America however whites seem to have largely coalesced into an American or White American identity, even if one does occasionally see an Irish or Italian flag on someone's front porch.

    Well, if you’re 1/4 German, 1/4 Irish, 1/4 British, and 1/4 Polish, what’s your pride? You’re a little of each, and some of those heritages hated each other. I can see where the ‘generic white American’ identity comes from.

    And, honestly, it wasn’t a bad one. We put a man on the moon, won both of the world wars we were in (OK, with a lot of of help from everyone else), defeated Communism, went from a bunch of scrawny colonies to a superpower in a few centuries…

    Read More
  62. @Twinkie
    St. Patrick was not Irish.

    St. Patrick was British. In other words, he would likely have been nearly indistinguishable from the Irish except that he spoke a different dialect of Celtic than they spoke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I don't know, it would be rather a stretch to say both the Irish and the English differed only in their particular dialect of Iranic ...

    As a partial Scot and thus more of a Gael than most any Welshman, I say: Let the Celticism rest a bit. Briton or whatever, we all know why St. Patrick is being celebrated today.

    Happy St. Patrick's day!

    P.S.

    Today I called upon that excellent Saint's intercession to remove my car from the encrusted ice. Grazie, San Patrizio!
    , @Twinkie
    Different culture, different language, different religion. Enough to kill back then - still is in many parts of the world. Not everyone shares the phenotype obsession frequently found in this blog.
  63. The problem with the Irish is they started voting Republican. That’s why they’re not a victim group anymore.

    Historically there was some really nasty discrimination against the Irish, particularly in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

    Read More
  64. in which members of a dominant culture take elements from a culture of people who have been systematically oppressed by that dominant group.”

    What are the rules if there is not a dominant group? What if there is a dispute over which is the dominant group? I guess the dominant group decides and that ends that.

    Read More
  65. @Twinkie
    St. Patrick was not Irish.

    I take it you believe in the myth that Irish people generally don’t know that. I will always remember Bertrand Russell for pointedly propagating that myth in his History of Western Philosophy. Addressing the people who don’t know anything as the first ones who need to be enlightened is that “wise as serpents” business gone bad I’m afraid. “For all the rest of you, these Irish folks are all stupid.”

    The most probable single reason we remember St. Patrick is because he was not Irish—the Good Word that came from a foreign land logically needed a foreigner to mythologize.

    The hard truth for most Irish-Americans to hear is that the shamrock doesn’t exist, any three leaf weed will do.

    And yet, any three leaf weed will do.

    How’s that homework comin Mr. Smug?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    That whole conversation was in your mind, not mine.
    , @Cortes
    Old Bertrand was just as Whiggishly anti Irish as his dwarfish grandad, PM during the Famine:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Russell,_1st_Earl_Russell
  66. Happy St. Paddy’s Day to Steve and all others here . Always liked two things – The Irish can’t be mindf-cked with – it’s just not possible LOL . Also , how American Southerners and others in rural areas just say they’re Irish and don’t make a big point about being technically Scottish . Hell the local woman running the Best Western in Arkansas looked just like my aunt from upper Manhattan .

    Read More
  67. “Q. What if you are 5/16th Irish and are offended, but a person who is 17/32nd Irish isn’t offended?

    A. The offended person is always right.”

    No, Steve. It is not that simple. The person who has more non-white blood is always correct, unless the one with less non-white blood is gay.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I believe Steve has recommended that we all be issued cards with Pokemon point values. If , for example, a transwoman found herself in a dispute with a South Asia, they could pull out their respective Pokemon cards and whoever had the greater point value would automatically win. This would save a lot of arguments.
  68. @Augusto Vidal Pinochet
    What if a white Muslim offends a black Irishman ?

    John Walker Lindh would be more PC than Phil Lynott, because Islam is now very PC. Plus, Lynott hung out with mostly whites that in America would be seen as rednecks.

    Now if Lynott had been gay, he might get the PC nod.

    Read More
  69. Is It Inappropriate to Culturally Appropriate St. Patrick’s Day?

    I think this guy should be the final authority.

    Read More
  70. @Anonymous

    Basically, for there to be cultural appropriation, there must be a majority party that is taking important, celebrated aspects of another, more oppressed party. It is impossible for a person from an oppressed culture to practice cultural appropriation because, more times than not, oppressed people have to adopt aspects of the majority culture whether they want to or not.
     
    Brilliant. They are always one step ahead. It's no wonder that every time I engage in one of these cultural appropriation discussions and bring up that non-Europeans appropriate daily the advances of the European world, such as planes, trains, automobiles, computers, the net, etc., etc.; it invariable falls upon deaf ears.

    Now I have the answer. The oppressed cannot culturally appropriate even when they culturally appropriate. Check and mate!

    Same thing with racism. We are told,

    It’s literally impossible to be racist to a white person.

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dear-white-people-please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real

    Not just impossible, but LITERALLY impossible.

    This asymmetry is really very convenient. If I call you a n-word, then I’m a racist, but if you call me a cracker or a honky, it’s not racism. If I wear an Afro, that’s cultural appropriation, but if you wear shoes, that’s no problem.

    Moldbug says that black people are best understood as royalty (“we wuz kangs”). If a commoner tried to wear the royal purple or address the king as Yo, Henry! – off with his head. But vice versa, no problem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    And there's this:

    https://twitter.com/endstpats/status/828017529943646210

    Pride in being white will not be allowed, by order of the Ministry of Love.
  71. @Jake
    "Q. What if you are 5/16th Irish and are offended, but a person who is 17/32nd Irish isn’t offended?

    A. The offended person is always right."

    No, Steve. It is not that simple. The person who has more non-white blood is always correct, unless the one with less non-white blood is gay.

    I believe Steve has recommended that we all be issued cards with Pokemon point values. If , for example, a transwoman found herself in a dispute with a South Asia, they could pull out their respective Pokemon cards and whoever had the greater point value would automatically win. This would save a lot of arguments.

    Read More
  72. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Coemgen
    St. Patrick was British. In other words, he would likely have been nearly indistinguishable from the Irish except that he spoke a different dialect of Celtic than they spoke.

    I don’t know, it would be rather a stretch to say both the Irish and the English differed only in their particular dialect of Iranic …

    As a partial Scot and thus more of a Gael than most any Welshman, I say: Let the Celticism rest a bit. Briton or whatever, we all know why St. Patrick is being celebrated today.

    Happy St. Patrick’s day!

    P.S.

    Today I called upon that excellent Saint’s intercession to remove my car from the encrusted ice. Grazie, San Patrizio!

    Read More
  73. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Augusto Vidal Pinochet
    What if a white Muslim offends a black Irishman ?

    They walk into a bar, where they meet a drunken rabbi who says “That’s funny, you don’t look Jewish ” …

    Read More
  74. @Pat Casey
    I take it you believe in the myth that Irish people generally don't know that. I will always remember Bertrand Russell for pointedly propagating that myth in his History of Western Philosophy. Addressing the people who don't know anything as the first ones who need to be enlightened is that "wise as serpents" business gone bad I'm afraid. "For all the rest of you, these Irish folks are all stupid."

    The most probable single reason we remember St. Patrick is because he was not Irish---the Good Word that came from a foreign land logically needed a foreigner to mythologize.

    The hard truth for most Irish-Americans to hear is that the shamrock doesn't exist, any three leaf weed will do.

    And yet, any three leaf weed will do.

    How's that homework comin Mr. Smug?

    That whole conversation was in your mind, not mine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    The morning after. Fare Thee Well my friend. Suffer me to flatter myself by quoting O'Casey. He's who I'm not so it's really my penance.

    So I learned how to resist all aggressive attempts to make me a docile one, and could hit back as hard as he who could hit hardest. This gift, for an earned gift it is, kept within me when I reached the world of thought as it had been in the world of hard labor--at times, I fear, fighting what I thought to be aggression where none was meant.
     
  75. @Coemgen
    St. Patrick was British. In other words, he would likely have been nearly indistinguishable from the Irish except that he spoke a different dialect of Celtic than they spoke.

    Different culture, different language, different religion. Enough to kill back then – still is in many parts of the world. Not everyone shares the phenotype obsession frequently found in this blog.

    Read More
  76. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Steve, at first I was going to chide you for going after some clueless college kid, who, after all, is being pusnished pretty harshly by having to live in Fargo for four years.

    But then I poked around thoughtful (check out his picture) Johnny's articles, and he turns out to be a full blown O'Brien. Check this passage about Political Correctness:

    Imagine if an entire generation never heard a slur of any kind. If our children never heard us say offensive words, they would never use them. Their children, too, would have no vocabulary for oppression. Oppressive words would, over time, cease to exist. It is for this reason that political correctness is so crucial to the world. The spirit of political correctness is not about forcing people to watch what they say, it’s about creating a society in which thoughts are considerate enough that all can speak their minds without offending others. By forcing ourselves to monitor what we say and write now, we can condition the world to one day be a place where political correctness comes naturally. Racism itself could very well become an institution of the past. Isn’t that worth taking the extra minute to speak with consideration? So I am sorry, Mr. Trump, but if America is ever to move past discrimination, we must find the time to be politically correct.



    This guy understands very well that limiting a person's vocabulary limits their ability to think. And so much more dangerously, he believes that he's on the side of angels, which means the ends justify the means.

    “He is too intelligent. He sees too clearly and speaks too plainly.”

    Read More
  77. @Joe Magarac
    We've already mooted it about the Jews. What about the Irish?

    Really White? Or not? ;)

    “What about the Irish?
    Really White? Or not? ;)
    Phil Lynott from Thin Lizzy was black but authentic Irish. This confirms that the Irish are in fact Black.

    Read More
  78. @Bugg
    Grew up in outer borough NYC and have lived around Irish people in my family and around me. When traveling in Dublin and Belfast a few years back, could not much tell the difference between Protestants and Catholics in both cities. The Belfast accent (different from the brogue in most other places) was the same for everyone in Belfast.No real physical difference nor dress, nor anything else. And really as Ireland has become less religious seems to matter a lot less on the ground. Would guess a DNA test on the populations of Ireland who identify as either Catholic/Irish or Protestant/Scot-Irish would be very close to indistinguishable. And that might also be true of all the white people of the British Isles.

    That’s interesting. But I think Irish Catholics in Belfast would disagree, strongly to some extent, stronger in counties like Tyrone is my understanding. Irish Catholics in Dublin would probably disagree, less strongly, because lots of Irish wind up in Dublin and its always getting to be more of a melting pot, plus a lot of the “Anglo-Irish” in Dublin were just Irish who converted somewhere along the line. But last time my brother got back from Dublin he mentioned the pubs that don’t cater to the tourists where you can’t understand the patrons a bit their accents are so thick. There are definitely Irish Catholic neighborhoods in Belfast and elsewhere in the north where the kids look different than the Protestants to an outsider’s eye by my word of mouth. The term you will hear back here in the states is Potato Face. And those are generally the pockets where the Irish language has survived as strong as anywhere in the West and maybe stronger. One thing everyone in Ireland seems to agree on however outdated the truth may be is that every county has its own accent. If you could observe all they still get up to do for The 12th in Ulster you would see the depth of division is still not nothing no way.

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  79. @Frau Katze
    I wonder if one of the effects of mass immigration has been for all white people to feel more like a unit.

    Irish, Italian: might have been a big deal at one time but it sure seems like nothing today.

    Of course, it could be helped by all the intermarriage that leaves few American or Canadian whites with ancestors that all came from one country.

    Well, I’m a little over the 5/16ths Irish that Steve indicates–in some incalculable way that leaves me saying that I’m about a third Irish, which is both counterintuitive and true. In fact, I’m what I guess I’d call classic American Northwestern-European Mix: part 17th c. English Puritan Yankee, part Irish, part German and a little Scottish, plus (in my case) a tiny soupçon of Swiss in there for color.

    I have to imagine Italian counts by now, looking at white demography in the US, as must Irish. Or maybe I’m wrong. But I think it would be odd to exclude those ethnicities at this point.

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  80. @NOTA
    Imagine if your job was to write drivel like that all day.

    It comes naturally to some because it is nothing more than a brain dump.

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  81. @Twinkie
    The Sacred is the time without a place and the place without time.

    That’s pretty but the sacred is also that which you don’t interfere with.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    It's not just pretty - it's what I experience at Mass each time.
  82. @Jack D
    Same thing with racism. We are told,

    It's literally impossible to be racist to a white person.

     

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dear-white-people-please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real

    Not just impossible, but LITERALLY impossible.


    This asymmetry is really very convenient. If I call you a n-word, then I'm a racist, but if you call me a cracker or a honky, it's not racism. If I wear an Afro, that's cultural appropriation, but if you wear shoes, that's no problem.

    Moldbug says that black people are best understood as royalty ("we wuz kangs"). If a commoner tried to wear the royal purple or address the king as Yo, Henry! - off with his head. But vice versa, no problem.

    And there’s this:

    Pride in being white will not be allowed, by order of the Ministry of Love.

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    • Replies: @The Q Entity
    The only surprise is that it took so long for the SJWs to go after the Irish.
    , @Forbes
    So instead, non-whites will otherize whites by encouraging and perpetuating non-white culture.

    All hail and bow down to our new civilizational overlords and masters.
  83. @Twinkie
    That whole conversation was in your mind, not mine.

    The morning after. Fare Thee Well my friend. Suffer me to flatter myself by quoting O’Casey. He’s who I’m not so it’s really my penance.

    So I learned how to resist all aggressive attempts to make me a docile one, and could hit back as hard as he who could hit hardest. This gift, for an earned gift it is, kept within me when I reached the world of thought as it had been in the world of hard labor–at times, I fear, fighting what I thought to be aggression where none was meant.

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  84. @Forbes
    Cultural assimilation was something looked upon favorably--even encouraged, at one time. The resulting 'melting pot' was considered a positive attribute of America, i.e. everyone getting along by the sharing of cultural artifacts, traditions, cuisine, etc.

    Now it's called cultural appropriation and demands Balkanization. Do theses folks want the Irish to go back to Ireland?

    Cultural assimilation was something looked upon favorably–even encouraged, at one time. The resulting ‘melting pot’ was considered a positive attribute of America, i.e. everyone getting along by the sharing of cultural artifacts, traditions, cuisine, etc.

    Now it’s called cultural appropriation and demands Balkanization. Do theses folks want the Irish to go back to Ireland?

    Excellent point. What constitutes the left these days (the coalition of the fringes) has an array of self-contradictory cookie-cutter formulas and axioms that they try to apply in every possible situation. Whiteness “does not exist”, but Whites are the ultimate “oppressors”. Gender is “socially constructed”, but Women are an essential category.

    Critical theory is the postmodern Tower of Babble. Unfortunately, those doing most of the babbling fail to realize that it is all just “theory”. It’s a belief system. Thanks, but I’ve got my own beliefs.

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  85. Forget St Patty’s…..here is the 21st century in a nutshell:

    Is somebody from a non-white/non-Christian culture offended by what you are wearing, doing or saying?

    If the answer is yes, then you are wrong.

    The Western World has become like one of those faceless housing projects judged unfit for humans; although the problem appears to be the subhumans colonizing it, we must never even appear to say such things…. so let’s blame the architects, the developers, the politicians and -what the hell – Whiteness itself, hovering over the nut-brown multitudes like a Presbyterian shroud. Before we blow it up and start again, natch, learning nothing whatsoever, and robbing the treasury 20 and 30 years down the road to pay for it now.

    The Bourbons got nothing on today’s “smart, hip and successful” whites. They didn’t end up in cannibal cookpots, y’see.

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  86. The ones using the Irish are Wasps with an Irish great grandparent who insist that makes them Irish, and crypto-Lamarckian equalitarians claiming that the original Irish immigrants were considered unwhite level degenerates, but after being allowed to stop digging peat on a diet of spuds, and living in the US for a few generations, they now are achieving at the level of Wasps, or even above that level. But who would put them selves down as a Wasp, or celebrate an ethnically Wasp festival in this day and age?

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  87. @SteveRogers42
    And there's this:

    https://twitter.com/endstpats/status/828017529943646210

    Pride in being white will not be allowed, by order of the Ministry of Love.

    The only surprise is that it took so long for the SJWs to go after the Irish.

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  88. @Clyde
    An honor to welcome the Taoiseach of Ireland, @EndaKennyTD to the @WhiteHouse today

    A great St Patrick's day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/842467917639913472

    http://bit.ly/2mxjU4O --- VIDEO!

    A great St Patrick’s day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.

    Really? Enda Kenny, the Irish PM, used the opportunity to lecture Americans on immigration, saying St Patrick was an immigrant along with the usual “refuse on teeming shore” nonsense.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    Ireland doesn't work as what it says it is--an independent state. Every Irish government loves EU farm subsidies, cheap labour immigration and their own people's emigration in search of decent jobs, so they are infuriated by Brexit. Just as they wanted to be "Free" but retain all the benefits of being in the UK (such as the rights they still have to to walk in to the UK, settle and claim welfare and vote in British elections) they only wanted to be in the EU along with Britain. Well now they can get a little taste of real independence.
  89. Oh, I’m sure the Irish are offended by how we celebrate SPD, since it’s their jobs to be offended by everything Americans do. This is why I make the extra special effort to call it St. Patty’s Day and wear a “Beer Me I’m Irish” t-shirt from Wal-Mart. Anything to get the Irish triggered is my policy. And if they get so triggered that Enda Kenny stays home next time, it’s a huge win.

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  90. @Augusto Vidal Pinochet
    What if a white Muslim offends a black Irishman ?

    I know your comment’s for laughs, but I gotta sperg out anyway: there’s no question the poster-child skin color trumps almost everything.

    I’ve met a few Albanians and Bosniaks, and I can openly if gently tease them on their tippling slivovica and palinka and their lip-service to the Koran, and refer to Islam as a desert Arab’s religion, and get a laugh out of them. I get away with it because I know them pretty well, so much do they remind me of my Christian Slavic in-laws.

    If one of these white Muslims was to get into an offensive public debate with a black ‘Irishman’ – say a second-generation-in-Dublin young Nigerian who has had time to get the usual chip on shoulder, there is no doubt who wins in the court of liberal opinion.

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  91. @Matra
    A great St Patrick’s day at the White House. Hosted by DJT. All political beefs and antagonisms put aside for the day.

    Really? Enda Kenny, the Irish PM, used the opportunity to lecture Americans on immigration, saying St Patrick was an immigrant along with the usual "refuse on teeming shore" nonsense.

    Ireland doesn’t work as what it says it is–an independent state. Every Irish government loves EU farm subsidies, cheap labour immigration and their own people’s emigration in search of decent jobs, so they are infuriated by Brexit. Just as they wanted to be “Free” but retain all the benefits of being in the UK (such as the rights they still have to to walk in to the UK, settle and claim welfare and vote in British elections) they only wanted to be in the EU along with Britain. Well now they can get a little taste of real independence.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Just like Quebec "independence" from Canada. All the goodies and none of the burdens.
  92. @Buffalo Joe
    Ah, yes, the fun loving Irish are open to all being one of them. I remember Leroy Kelly, the great NFL running back, who was a darker shade of green. Years ago I introduced an Irish ironworker acquaintance of mine to a delightful Irish girl. They hit it off and even spoke of marriage. They invited me to join them for a few beers at an Irish bar in south Buffalo. I walked in the door and a beer bottle sailed past my head and broke on the door frame... "Who invited the dago?" I turned and left, so much for ethnic mixing. PS Monday is St. Joseph's Day.

    Indeed. As a non-Irish who grew up on the South Shore of Boston, where 16 of the 20 towns in America with the most Irishmen live are located, Evacuation Day* has always been the one where the odds of getting hit in the head with a bottle spiked.

    I’ve been wearing orange on March 17th since my freshman year in high school.

    *Evacuation Day is the misdirection the micks in Boston city government used to give Suffolk County employees a paid holiday.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_Day_(Massachusetts)

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Brutus, God bless you my friend, living with all those harps. I was a member of a Irish majority union and I still hate most of them. Give them a job and their response was..."Why didn't you hire me two weeks ago?" I volunteer at a inner city soup kitchen, purgatory points, and one of the woman, a mick, said..."Look, I've got the guinea making corned beef and cabbage." If she had balls instead of a vijayjay, I would have knocked her on her ample ass. Ok, I'm over it. Happy St. Joseph's Day.
    , @ganderson
    Gotta have a hack holiday in March, right?
  93. @SFg
    The problem with the Irish is they started voting Republican. That's why they're not a victim group anymore.

    Historically there was some really nasty discrimination against the Irish, particularly in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

    Irish vote Republican? Not in Massachusetts!

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  94. @SteveRogers42
    And there's this:

    https://twitter.com/endstpats/status/828017529943646210

    Pride in being white will not be allowed, by order of the Ministry of Love.

    So instead, non-whites will otherize whites by encouraging and perpetuating non-white culture.

    All hail and bow down to our new civilizational overlords and masters.

    Read More
  95. Hey everybody, Johnny Wagner here!

    I wrote this column a little over a year ago, and if you’re curious, I made like six dollars and fifty cents for doing it. It blew up last year, and I love that it’s still so popular, haha! Barely anybody at Concordia reads the Concordian, so it’s nice to know thousands of complete strangers with better things to do have the time to read what is probably my worst article ever and ridicule it.

    Anyway, last year my column theme was political correctness, so I wrote everything from the lens of being completely politically correct (regardless of whether I believed it or not). This year, my theme was the opposite—in fact, my first column of the school year was titled, “The Pros of a Trump Presidency.” The St. Patrick’s Day column was basically my journey through trying to understand the issue of cultural appropriation, which had always been something I didn’t really think was problem. I think white people should be able to get dreadlocks if they really want to, lol. But I was writing about political correctness, right?

    The Concordian got rid of all the comments on my column, which is unfortunate because there were some good ones on there haha. My personal favorite was, “Johnny Wagner, do the rest of humanity a favor and deepthroat a chainsaw.”

    Time to try to get rid of this hangover—cuz, ya know, yesterday was St. Patrick’s Day and I got hella smashed :)

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  96. @Steve Sailer
    In general, I try to pick on the prestigious. But this guy is so ingenuous that he really distills the current conventional wisdom.

    Of course, he might possibly be doing a more verbose version of Godfrey Elfwick.

    In general, I try to pick on the prestigious.

    Keep punching up!

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  97. @Augusto Vidal Pinochet
    What if a white Muslim offends a black Irishman ?

    Let’s see, if the Black Irish are descendants of the sailors of the Spanish Armada, that means they’re Hispanic… So we already had a Diversity James Bond in Pierce Brosnan, and we’re not obligated to cast Idris Elba as the next one… Oh wait, I forgot that Hispanic officially means “from any majority Spanish-speaking country — except Spain”. This stuff is really hard! It’s almost enough to make you want to switch your major from grievance studies to nuclear physics.

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  98. “It is impossible for a person from an oppressed culture to practice cultural appropriation because, more times than not, oppressed people have to adopt aspects of the majority culture whether they want to or not.”

    This raises the rather interesting question of why these people are not a part of the “majority culture.” Perhaps because they moved from a land in which they belonged to the majority culture to another land which they, uh, appropriated. And then they began appropriating other things, like the language of the majority culture.

    I’m fine if these people want to bitch about “cultural appropriation,” so long as they do so in the language of their ancestors rather than the language of my Anglo-Saxon ancestors, which they have appropriated.

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  99. @Brutusale
    Indeed. As a non-Irish who grew up on the South Shore of Boston, where 16 of the 20 towns in America with the most Irishmen live are located, Evacuation Day* has always been the one where the odds of getting hit in the head with a bottle spiked.

    I've been wearing orange on March 17th since my freshman year in high school.

    *Evacuation Day is the misdirection the micks in Boston city government used to give Suffolk County employees a paid holiday.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_Day_(Massachusetts)

    Brutus, God bless you my friend, living with all those harps. I was a member of a Irish majority union and I still hate most of them. Give them a job and their response was…”Why didn’t you hire me two weeks ago?” I volunteer at a inner city soup kitchen, purgatory points, and one of the woman, a mick, said…”Look, I’ve got the guinea making corned beef and cabbage.” If she had balls instead of a vijayjay, I would have knocked her on her ample ass. Ok, I’m over it. Happy St. Joseph’s Day.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    I escaped to the North Shore more than 20 years ago, which is more Italian. The food is far superior and I met an Italian goddess that I can see myself spending forever with.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Buffalo Joe,

    You still may hate most of them (the Irish), but as we say in NYC:

    Ya gotta consider the alternatives!

    , @Cortes
    Look on the bright side, Joe: begorrah, at least you're not bitter...
  100. Some people are more gregarious and fun-loving than others, so of course the Irish have bypassed the entire “cultural appropriation” kill-joy movement. Can you think of anything more anathema to the Irish personality? I cannot. Nah, everyone being invited to partake is exactly what we would expect and it’s exactly what we see.

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  101. @Brutusale
    Indeed. As a non-Irish who grew up on the South Shore of Boston, where 16 of the 20 towns in America with the most Irishmen live are located, Evacuation Day* has always been the one where the odds of getting hit in the head with a bottle spiked.

    I've been wearing orange on March 17th since my freshman year in high school.

    *Evacuation Day is the misdirection the micks in Boston city government used to give Suffolk County employees a paid holiday.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_Day_(Massachusetts)

    Gotta have a hack holiday in March, right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Yeah. There was almost a state hack employee revolt when the legislature took the Evacuation Day and Bunker Hill Day "holidays" away from them a few years ago.
  102. @Buffalo Joe
    Brutus, God bless you my friend, living with all those harps. I was a member of a Irish majority union and I still hate most of them. Give them a job and their response was..."Why didn't you hire me two weeks ago?" I volunteer at a inner city soup kitchen, purgatory points, and one of the woman, a mick, said..."Look, I've got the guinea making corned beef and cabbage." If she had balls instead of a vijayjay, I would have knocked her on her ample ass. Ok, I'm over it. Happy St. Joseph's Day.

    I escaped to the North Shore more than 20 years ago, which is more Italian. The food is far superior and I met an Italian goddess that I can see myself spending forever with.

    Read More
  103. @Buffalo Joe
    Brutus, God bless you my friend, living with all those harps. I was a member of a Irish majority union and I still hate most of them. Give them a job and their response was..."Why didn't you hire me two weeks ago?" I volunteer at a inner city soup kitchen, purgatory points, and one of the woman, a mick, said..."Look, I've got the guinea making corned beef and cabbage." If she had balls instead of a vijayjay, I would have knocked her on her ample ass. Ok, I'm over it. Happy St. Joseph's Day.

    Buffalo Joe,

    You still may hate most of them (the Irish), but as we say in NYC:

    Ya gotta consider the alternatives!

    Read More
  104. @Buffalo Joe
    Brutus, God bless you my friend, living with all those harps. I was a member of a Irish majority union and I still hate most of them. Give them a job and their response was..."Why didn't you hire me two weeks ago?" I volunteer at a inner city soup kitchen, purgatory points, and one of the woman, a mick, said..."Look, I've got the guinea making corned beef and cabbage." If she had balls instead of a vijayjay, I would have knocked her on her ample ass. Ok, I'm over it. Happy St. Joseph's Day.

    Look on the bright side, Joe: begorrah, at least you’re not bitter…

    Read More
  105. @Pat Casey
    I take it you believe in the myth that Irish people generally don't know that. I will always remember Bertrand Russell for pointedly propagating that myth in his History of Western Philosophy. Addressing the people who don't know anything as the first ones who need to be enlightened is that "wise as serpents" business gone bad I'm afraid. "For all the rest of you, these Irish folks are all stupid."

    The most probable single reason we remember St. Patrick is because he was not Irish---the Good Word that came from a foreign land logically needed a foreigner to mythologize.

    The hard truth for most Irish-Americans to hear is that the shamrock doesn't exist, any three leaf weed will do.

    And yet, any three leaf weed will do.

    How's that homework comin Mr. Smug?

    Old Bertrand was just as Whiggishly anti Irish as his dwarfish grandad, PM during the Famine:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Russell,_1st_Earl_Russell

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  106. @Sean
    Ireland doesn't work as what it says it is--an independent state. Every Irish government loves EU farm subsidies, cheap labour immigration and their own people's emigration in search of decent jobs, so they are infuriated by Brexit. Just as they wanted to be "Free" but retain all the benefits of being in the UK (such as the rights they still have to to walk in to the UK, settle and claim welfare and vote in British elections) they only wanted to be in the EU along with Britain. Well now they can get a little taste of real independence.

    Just like Quebec “independence” from Canada. All the goodies and none of the burdens.

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  107. @ganderson
    Gotta have a hack holiday in March, right?

    Yeah. There was almost a state hack employee revolt when the legislature took the Evacuation Day and Bunker Hill Day “holidays” away from them a few years ago.

    Read More
  108. Mr. Wagner’s article is a wonderful illustration of the topsyturviness of modern morality- stupid green hats and silly t-shirts are “problematic” and potentially offensive, but not a word on the morality of drinking until you pass out in a public trash can on top of your own vomit. Likewise, he inverts the normal human experience of reverence and filial piety, holding it wrong to mock or make light of funny foreigners and their weird customs, but if you’re debasing the memory of your own personal ancestors, you get a free pass. In Wagner’s world, the problem is not that Irish-Americans act like a bunch of childish drunks on St. Patrick’s Day, it’s that the non-Irish accidentally make fun of them for it while joining the festivities. Black is white, up is down, good is bad.

    (Speaking for myself- a card-carrying member of the Ancient Order of Hibernians- watching the sordid antics of my distant cousins on March 17th almost makes me want to resurrect the Know-Nothing party and drive these contemptible bog-trotters back across the Atlantic.)

    “When Irish people first came to the United States, especially after the potato famine, they were oppressed and marginalized by the other people who already lived here.”

    Nonsense on stilts, of course. Famine migrants arrived destitute to some of America’s largest and wealthiest metropolises, and within 20 years they and their children were controlling City Hall. That’s not any kind of “oppression” I’ve ever seen. And unlike Mr. Wagner, actual famine-era migrants generally understood that the proper response to being saved from starvation by one’s hosts was gratitude, not surly resentment at every perceived slight.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    There was some fun going in the early days, as see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_nativist_riots . "Marginalization" wasn't in it, nor oppression, but it wasn't for lack of trying on the part of some folks.
  109. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Rapparee
    Mr. Wagner's article is a wonderful illustration of the topsyturviness of modern morality- stupid green hats and silly t-shirts are "problematic" and potentially offensive, but not a word on the morality of drinking until you pass out in a public trash can on top of your own vomit. Likewise, he inverts the normal human experience of reverence and filial piety, holding it wrong to mock or make light of funny foreigners and their weird customs, but if you're debasing the memory of your own personal ancestors, you get a free pass. In Wagner's world, the problem is not that Irish-Americans act like a bunch of childish drunks on St. Patrick's Day, it's that the non-Irish accidentally make fun of them for it while joining the festivities. Black is white, up is down, good is bad.

    (Speaking for myself- a card-carrying member of the Ancient Order of Hibernians- watching the sordid antics of my distant cousins on March 17th almost makes me want to resurrect the Know-Nothing party and drive these contemptible bog-trotters back across the Atlantic.)

    "When Irish people first came to the United States, especially after the potato famine, they were oppressed and marginalized by the other people who already lived here."
     
    Nonsense on stilts, of course. Famine migrants arrived destitute to some of America's largest and wealthiest metropolises, and within 20 years they and their children were controlling City Hall. That's not any kind of "oppression" I've ever seen. And unlike Mr. Wagner, actual famine-era migrants generally understood that the proper response to being saved from starvation by one's hosts was gratitude, not surly resentment at every perceived slight.

    There was some fun going in the early days, as see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_nativist_riots . “Marginalization” wasn’t in it, nor oppression, but it wasn’t for lack of trying on the part of some folks.

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  110. I drove a cab in NYC during college and I never made as much money as I did on St Patrick’s Day. And, no one threw up in my cab.

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  111. @Pat Casey
    That's pretty but the sacred is also that which you don't interfere with.

    It’s not just pretty – it’s what I experience at Mass each time.

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Comments are closed.

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