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From Haaretz in Israel:

Opinion: The Link Between Jews and Money Is No Longer Taboo

After years of focusing on anti-Semitism, more and more historians are daring to deal with a subject long considered untouchable

Ofri Ilany Feb 14, 2018 9:35 PM

… This anecdote exemplifies the centuries-old stereotype according to which the Jews have an innate knack for dealing with money. It’s an image that clung to the Jews even when they were paupers.

The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.” After Fiddler, Harnick and Bock created the musical The Rothschilds, which was something of a hit at the time around 1970 but has mostly been forgotten.

Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.

… But today it is perfectly clear that the “Jew and money” stereotype is almost as potent as it was a century ago. Suffice it to recall President Donald Trump’s remark to Jewish leaders during the election campaign, “You’re not going to support me, because I don’t want your money.”

Considering the dark history of the subject of the connection between Jews and money, the actual economic history of the Jews is a highly sensitive issue. Jewish history has been described as “a head without a body.” As the historian Jonathan Karp notes, the character of Shylock – the notorious usurer in Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice” – has cast “a long shadow of defensiveness over Jewish self-perceptions.” Nevertheless, over the past decade, historians have been increasingly focusing on the economic life of the Jews and trying to dispel the mystery and the myths that envelop the subject. Karp has termed this an “economic turn” in the field of Jewish studies.

Until not long ago, most historians preferred to delve deeply into the history of anti-Semitism, or to study the origins of kabbala or analyze Jewish philosophy – and not dwell, for example, on the story of the Jewish trading and banking empires. That subject was largely neglected by Jewish historians themselves; they left it for thinkers who possessed anti-Semitic inclinations.

A striking example is German sociologist Werner Sombart, who in 1911 published the influential book “The Jews and Modern Capitalism” (English edition, 2001, translated by M. Epstein). In response to sociologist Max Weber, Sombart argued that it was the Jews, not the Protestants, who invented capitalism. The Jews’ compatibility with capitalism, he thought, was related to substantive traits in Judaism, which, from the dawn of history, trained the Jews in “the subjugation of the merely animal instincts in man.” …

Actually, Jewish scholars have often sought to emphasize the socialist elements of their culture, a tendency that was consistent with the leftist bent of many Jewish intellectuals in the mid-20th century. But that situation seems to be changing. Not a few contemporary Jewish intellectuals have embraced capitalism as a legitimate economic approach, and are not ashamed of it. As such, they are proud to present their co-religionists as pioneers of capitalism.

One of the latter group is the historian Jerry Z. Muller. In his 2010 book “Capitalism and the Jews,” Muller homes in on the Jewish financiers who established the Deutsche Bank and the Dresdner Bank. A similar approach is taken in “The Chosen Few” (2012), by Maristella Botticini and Zvi Eckstein. Their book describes usurious moneylending as a Jewish trade, one in which Jews specialized of their own volition, in order to exploit their relative advantages over the uneducated general population. In this way, the authors maintain, the Jews brought prosperity to the countries in which they were active.

The past decade has also seen the publication of many studies that promote less sweeping claims, but describe global networks of commerce in which the Jews played a crucial role throughout the modern era. …

UC Berkeley historian Yuri Slezkine’s book The Jewish Century, which springs from his mother’s side of the family’s experience working for the Bolshevik state, argues that Jews were attracted to Marxism because they were discriminated against because of religion, nationality, and that they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of religion, nations, and capitalism and no more discrimination against Jews! What could possibly go wrong?

 
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  1. Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish.

    TLDR: it was Cosimo Medici not Rothschild who was the founder of modern banking and capitalism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whiskey
    Let me add, "attitudes" and such like mean nothing to the real challenges of capitalism in the 1200s and 1300s. Figuring out how much you lost or gained, and what expenses and revenues drove that. Being able to issue letters of credit hundreds of miles away to enable a merchant to reliably buy or sell goods. Being able to insure cargoes so that the loss of a ship did not ruin a merchant. Being able to pool money to invest, and take risks, while making a profit.

    This was not the work of marginal figures in Eastern or Western Europe. But rather Italian Merchant princes who actually figured out how do these things when no one else had done so. It was not a work ethic but actual material things and financial instruments backed by institutions that were trusted because they were reliable and sound, that created modern capitalism.

    All this btw in very Catholic Italy.
    , @bartok

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism
     
    What about the Jews in Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal, London? Were they a sideshow?

    Genuine question, not a rhetorical question.
    , @Karl
    1 Whiskey > and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers


    well, even the ancients had "bottomage" contracts.

    but assuming, arguendo, that your fundamental claim is correct - so what? What is the actuarial predictive value, ==today==, of knowing that history?

    We do know that the Cohan-ic priests in Jerusalem, complained about the tendency of Tribe of Dan (basically today's Greater Metro Haifa) boys to run away to sea on Phoenician ships and marry shiksas
    , @Dmitry

    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish
     

    .

    You have the history the opposite way round. Jewish bankers emerged in the Early Medieval Period. E.g.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_of_Lincoln


    Later on, Italian bankers emerged in the later Medieval periods and Early Modern periods, copying/adopting the same banking methods, as Jews were expelled from the West (during the Medieval times of crisis) and their positions replaced.

    This is a story with a lot of academic papers published on it, many of which available online.

    , @MEFOBILLS
    Yes, Italians invented modern double entry banking.

    It was 700 unlicensed Sephardic Jews in Amesterdam who set up the modern "market" of gets, puts and the like. They also engaged in scams, like waiting for ships to come in, to then maneuver the market.

    Jews, due to losing their East-West mechanism were desperate for a new money making scheme for usury on money. The East-West Mechanism was taking rents on the exchange rate between gold and silver. This overland middle east caravan mechanism was broken when Vasco de-Gama discovered the Southern Route. This is why Portugal got rich so quick, as they took over the "secret" Jewish overland caravan scheme. Shipping around horn of Africa destroyed donkey caravaneers scheme, of whom were almost entirely Jewish. Both Mecca and Medina were on the Caravan routes, and one can see echoes in Mohammed's antipathy toward Jews based on Jewish control of these cities.

    After east/west mechanism fell to Portugal, she unloaded spices and metal money in Amsterdam, yet another draw for Sephardics and later Ashkenazi. This can be seen in population statistics of Jews moving to the region. Jews used their stock market capital gains to print Bibles and maneuver for their being seen as "special people." Any religion that promotes old testament "Torah" usually has Jewish money somewhere as antecedent. Protestantism is implicated here. The modern variant of this Jewish scheme is Scofield Bible and Zionist Christianity.

    Jews learned to attach themselves to a shipping power in Holland, and aimed their daggers at England, by getting "Royals" into debts.

    By 1694, with advent of Bank of England, Jews had finally managed to host another country. A lot of "Dutch Jews" did not even deliver the Gold they said they would to buy these new bank-shares. Typical.

    Double Entry ledgers were used by BOE to hypothecate NEW CREDIT at this point in history. The idea was to have a nations's population willingly put themselves in debt, and said debt instrument holders were the bank. This is the important distinction, a double entry ledger can be used to manage existing money, or it can be used to CREATE new bank credit.

    It is not the ledger, it is the Con behind the ledger.

    With regards to Venice, they had a STATE BANK, which was funded early on by the rich. The basis for their credit was existing money (formerly from Rich) that circulated on the ledger in subsequent generations. Venice had honest money early on in her history. In other words, it wasn't bank credit in Venice but instead already existing money. Gold was always recalled to Venice due to her ability to export goods. (It was later that Venice 'went bad" and it exactly correlates in time to Jewish immigration.)

    Usury isn't explicitly a Jewish phenomenon, but Jews have weaponized it. Italians used forward contracts to get around usury injunctions. The Catholic fuggers of Germany were usurers, going against the Church.

    Double entry ledger was taken up by Jews as a useful tool, but Usury as a method transcends ledger mechanics.

    A homogeneous population is less likely to prey on its own cousins and brothers. Highly selected K type Jews work as an in-group to host populations, acting as super-predators. Jews acted as malefactors in ancient history on Caravan routes, and today is no different.
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  2. So why hasn’t Unz gotten any Haaretz writers to contribute here? There’s quite a few to choose from and many actually live in the Middle East unlike all but Cockburn who write about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    They're from an Israeli SJW outfit.

    They're unlikely to be huge fans of this site...

    It is true that both like criticising Jews and that commenters on this site will latch onto any criticism they can find. But inviting them would be like Jeffrey Dahmer inviting the mother-in-law of one of his victims to join with him in insulting said victim. There's a sliver of overlap, even there, I suppose!

    (Commenters = those leaving comments.)
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  3. @Whiskey
    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish.

    TLDR: it was Cosimo Medici not Rothschild who was the founder of modern banking and capitalism.

    Let me add, “attitudes” and such like mean nothing to the real challenges of capitalism in the 1200s and 1300s. Figuring out how much you lost or gained, and what expenses and revenues drove that. Being able to issue letters of credit hundreds of miles away to enable a merchant to reliably buy or sell goods. Being able to insure cargoes so that the loss of a ship did not ruin a merchant. Being able to pool money to invest, and take risks, while making a profit.

    This was not the work of marginal figures in Eastern or Western Europe. But rather Italian Merchant princes who actually figured out how do these things when no one else had done so. It was not a work ethic but actual material things and financial instruments backed by institutions that were trusted because they were reliable and sound, that created modern capitalism.

    All this btw in very Catholic Italy.

    Read More
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  4. There’s such a thing as too much of a good thing. Those most successful will tend to more often fall prey to greed. Is that good for the Jews? Not for most of us, Jewish or not. The Hebrew scriptures, were they paid heed to, offer a remedy.

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  5. I’m surprised at how little coverage this two year old study received:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001403

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    Intelligence
    Volume 54, January–February 2016, Pages 1-32
    Intelligence
    Investigating the right tail of wealth: Education, cognitive ability, giving, network power, gender, ethnicity, leadership, and other characteristics
    Author links open overlay panelJonathanWaiaDavidLincolnb
    Show more
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2015.11.002Get rights and content
    Highlights

    The characteristics of the right tail of wealth was assessed.


    Elite education and ability was associated with greater wealth, giving, and network power.


    U.S. Blacks and self-made females had the highest network power.


    Female CEOs needed to be more educated than their male counterparts.


    Males gave the most, but females gave more of what they have.


    Abstract
    The extent to which people in the right tail of wealth are highly educated and cognitively able was examined in a sample of 18,245 ultra high net worth (UHNW) individuals with net worth's of USD $30 million plus. How education and ability related to religion, ethnicity, political affiliation, relationship status, country, industry, leadership, gender, net worth, giving, and network power was assessed. And whether gender, religion, ethnicity, or network power differences existed in the right tail of wealth was examined. Overall, these people were highly educated and cognitively able, and smarter (more educated) people were wealthier, gave more, and had more powerful social networks (but when controlling for multiple confounds the association between education/ability and wealth was found to be quite small). Females were underrepresented, and female CEOs needed to be more select to reach the top of a company. Males and billionaires gave the most, but females and UHNW individuals gave more of what they had. U.S. Blacks and self-made females had the highest network power. U.S. Blacks and Caucasians were similarly educated and cognitively able. Democrats had a higher education and cognitive ability level than Republicans. Married people dominated and were the most educated and cognitively able, but least likely to have inherited their money and give. The finance, banking, investment, and internet sectors dominated. Jewish individuals were overrepresented by a factor of about 234. Today, the typical UHNW individual profile includes U.S. married (Christian and Jewish) men who are largely Chairman and CEO, Republican, and earned their money in finance, banking and investments. This study provides evidence for the clustering of brains, wealth and power, and suggests that elite education may matter in the trajectory of developing expertise in wealth and power generation.

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  6. In modern Hebrew you say “Rothschild” for rich man (“turn off the lights when you leave a room, I’m not Rothschild”). I don’t know if this was already standard practice in Yiddish but it seems likely.
    I notice the tendency to constantly and unreasonably negotiate: the stereotype isn’t that Jews are good with money, it’s that they use forms of cheating to exclude competition and then claim a closed process to be meritocratic. One is effectively praise and the other is the entirety of the Semitic-Western issue and hundreds of years of history in one line. Witness this journalist in slipping in this little mitigation. I try to tell the other awful racists on the deep web, leave the federal reserve bank alone, pay attention to how they cannot sit down to tea without a strategem. Look at the way this sentence I refer to resembles the old joke about the kid asking his dad for ten dollars: “FIVE DOLLARS? Am I made of money? What on Earth does anyone need three dollars for? I just gave you money, and now you ask me for two dollars.” The point here isn’t stinginess (with which I have no objection), it’s brazen goalpost-moving. The unapologetically unreasonable man generally defeats the lone opponent who feels an obligation to be reasonable.

    Read More
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  7. @Whiskey
    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish.

    TLDR: it was Cosimo Medici not Rothschild who was the founder of modern banking and capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism

    What about the Jews in Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal, London? Were they a sideshow?

    Genuine question, not a rhetorical question.

    Read More
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  8. Has anyone read the book The Merchant Bankers? I have been meaning to get to it for awhile, looks like it has a lengthy section on the Rothschilds.

    https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/joseph-wechsberg-5/the-merchant-bankers/

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Given that it was written over 50 years ago, it is a pretty good book. But much more useful for people interested in historical finance than contemporary finance.
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  9. I do find it rather ironic that modern day White nationalists and Alt Rightists are such huge proponents of bitcoin and other crypto currencies, given that such abstract and complex financial instruments would have historically been associated with Jews. Needless to say, making money by speculating on the price of Magic Internet Coins would have been diametrically opposed to the nationalist/fascist/Catholic reactionary/national socialist ideal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Tactics and tools change with the times.

    Nice try with the false equivalence, by the way.
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  10. Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers – not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust – Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn’t have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of…. capitalism

    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) – people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

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    • Agree: inertial
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    If I may ask,how exactly did your grandfather meet his demise?
    , @anonymous

    … but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn’t have 5 zlotys to his name …
     
    But it’s only murder if you lose the war, otherwise it’s merely a policy. Think of the Palestinians; they’re definitely getting whom’d but by who … hmmm, I wonder?
    , @J.Ross

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    Armand Hammer was "not a real Communist"?
    , @PapayaSF

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.
    , @gcochran
    Check out the historical trajectory of the Chinese in Malaysia and Indonesia.
    , @peterike

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

     

    Well I suppose those Jewish bankers in the U.S. and Germany that actually funded the Communist Revolution in Russia weren't technically "communists" themselves. Just capitalists lending a hand.

    And those contemporary Jewish billionaires who are the preeminent financial force behind both the Democratic party and every kind of Progressive insanity including open borders aren't "technically" Communists either, because their rich. Or something.
    , @polskijoe
    Agreed generally with your post.
    Hitler made tons of mistakes.

    The Jews in Poland, were largely keeping to themselves, religious.
    There were minorities who half assimilated, less religious, and those became more likely to be communists.
    There were simply a lot of Jews there at the time. 3-3.3 million. So with their uniforms, keeping to each other they stood out easily.

    Poles themselves, never really liked Communism. Even the leaders of the time didnt like it.
    The Bolshevik-Polish war is examplle of this.

    Hitler invaded the wrong countries.

    In the mean time, the ultra rich Jews (Rothschilds in France/UK), Schiffs, Warburgs, Sacchs, Sterns, Lazards, Lehmans, were getting richer. Boy Hitler sure went after them! lol.
    , @Bill

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    As others have pointed out, this is true (if it is true at all) in only a quite narrow way. The children of people "good at capitalism" become communists all the time.
    , @SimplePseudonymicHandle
    this
    , @Pericles

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

     

    (((Olof Aschberg))), "the red banker".

    Olof Aschberg (22 July 1877 – 21 April 1960) was a Swedish banker and businessman. Aschberg was a leftist sympathizer and helped finance the Bolsheviks in Russia. In gratitude, the Bolshevik government allowed Aschberg to do business with Soviet Union during the 1920s. In 1922, Aschberg founded Roskombank, the first Soviet international bank.[1]
    ...
    Aschberg had already gained the Soviet leaders' esteem by being one of the main connections in the early years after 1917 in evading the international boycott on gold robbed by the Bolsheviks, which he offered on the Stockholm market after having the bullions melted down and given new markings.[4]
    (etc)

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Aschberg
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  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Evil Neocon (whisky) is such a damn liar.

    Capitalism dates from antiquity. As far back as Babylon at least. Jesus whipped the money changers in the Temple. The ancient world had the tradition of debt jubilees because the world was filled with LOANS.

    LOANS are the lifeblood of capitalism and da joos were the lenders in European capitals.

    Nearly all of the Euro empires were built on Jewish lending.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill
    It's a good point. Money-lending (i.e. finance capitalism) dates from antiquity.

    What is more recent are joint stock companies and capital lending (i.e. lending to businesses for the purpose of productive investment).

    Lending-for-consumption/gambling/war is ancient.
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  12. Do those who were labeled as anti-semites for violating the taboo when it was still a taboo have a legal recourse now when this is no longer a taboo? Reparations for anti-semites?

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    For you, utu, it is still taboo.
    And reparations only go one way.
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  13. This is like cleaning up at the close of hunting camp–where to begin?

    As the historian Jonathan Karp notes, the character of Shylock – the notorious usurer in Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice” – has cast “a long shadow of defensiveness over Jewish self-perceptions.”

    Yeah, that’s it. All those Jewish bolshies implementing socialism and marxism and globalism in government and education and media and finance…were really haunted by The Bard.

    FWIW, Shylock wasn’t “notorious” in the play for his usury. His role as dispenser of usury was a given.

    He is remembered for being a hateful, niggling, talmudic interpreter of contracts who tried to turn Venetian contract law against an individual for his own spiteful reasons. He got his comeuppance when the court, in the person of Portia as Balthazar, held him to the terms of his own niggling reading of his own contract.

    More to the point as per the Christian Cabala of Elizabethan England, Shylock stood between the pillar of mercy and the pillar of severity, kicked down the first in spite, then had the second brought down on his head.

    Even more to the point is that at early in the play he touts his own superiority as a loving and merciful person. But mercy, as Portia points out, “is an attribute of God himself,” and earthly works most resemble him when mercy tempers justice.

    …Therefore, Jew,
    Though justice be thy plea consider this:
    That in the course of justice, none of us
    Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy

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  14. @utu
    Do those who were labeled as anti-semites for violating the taboo when it was still a taboo have a legal recourse now when this is no longer a taboo? Reparations for anti-semites?

    For you, utu, it is still taboo.
    And reparations only go one way.

    Read More
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  15. The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”

    The “real” Tevye had never heard of Rothschilds. He aspired to be merely a Brodsky.

    Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.

    That’s math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    That’s math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.
     
    Ashkenazi Jews romanticise well-read or highly-skilled penury in the same way West African immigrants to the West romanticise 'ancient' positions of tribal authority. I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility.

    There is a tendency for all to claim each as their own even with little evidence. Then again it is likely that each does actually much better fit their desired ancestry than do the others.

    This shows one of the ways that folk knowledge is passed down. Not merely as fact but also as aesthetic and romantic preferences that lead to recognition of that fact.

    , @AndrewR
    That's not necessarily true. The wealthy have tended to have more children (or at least more grandchildren) than the poor, at least until the welfare stare was instituted in very recent times. And of course, if you go back far enough, everyone has both rich and poor ancestors, or at least everyone whose ancestors have deep roots in civilization.
    , @for-the-record
    The “real” Tevye had never heard of Rothschilds. He aspired to be merely a Brodsky.

    Alas, not all Brodskys were rich.
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  16. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    If I may ask,how exactly did your grandfather meet his demise?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    He was taken to Treblinka extermination camp along with his wife (my grandmother) and two daughters (my aunts) and the rest of the Jewish population of his town and gassed.
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  17. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    … but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn’t have 5 zlotys to his name …

    But it’s only murder if you lose the war, otherwise it’s merely a policy. Think of the Palestinians; they’re definitely getting whom’d but by who … hmmm, I wonder?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Let me know when the Israelis open extermination camps for Palestinians.
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  18. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    Armand Hammer was “not a real Communist”?

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    @Jack D

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    Armand Hammer was “not a real Communist”?
     
    Or Olof Aschberg:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Aschberg
    , @Jack D
    First of all, Hammer is a rare exception, not a typical Jewish capitalist. 2nd he made a (lucrative) business of being buddies with Lenin. 3rd he did it from the safe shores of the US. If he had lived in Russia he would not have lasted as a Communist tycoon. This is like being a religious atheist or a chaste libertine.
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  19. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    That's easy to explain - "daddy issues".
    , @Dmitry

    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.

     

    Frankfurt school members all lived the life of bourgeois professors. So there was no real change in material circumstances from their parents, even as they adopted fashionable Marxian historical materialism project.

    Actually they represented the generational progression of bourgeois life - their parents had done practical professions to earn the money, that allowed their children the luxury to sit around reading books and discussing the impact of Hindemith operas on the future of the world all evening.

    This school could be not uncharitably described as 'Marxism for the bourgeoisie'. And it is not surprising that it appealed to the most bourgeois student demographics (the type studying English literature and art history in the 1960s universities in the West).

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  20. @Whiskey
    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish.

    TLDR: it was Cosimo Medici not Rothschild who was the founder of modern banking and capitalism.

    1 Whiskey > and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers

    well, even the ancients had “bottomage” contracts.

    but assuming, arguendo, that your fundamental claim is correct – so what? What is the actuarial predictive value, ==today==, of knowing that history?

    We do know that the Cohan-ic priests in Jerusalem, complained about the tendency of Tribe of Dan (basically today’s Greater Metro Haifa) boys to run away to sea on Phoenician ships and marry shiksas

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  21. For Good and Evil: The Impact of Taxes on the Course of Civilization by Charles Adams points out that discrimination often prevented Jews from owning land, so many became merchants and moneylenders. That gave many Jews an advantage when technological progress made those occupations a better path to wealth than farming.

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  22. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Jews were attracted to Marxism because they were discriminated against because of religion, nationality, and that they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of religion, nations, and capitalism and no more discrimination against Jews! What could possibly go wrong?”

    Basically, communism was one of a number of solutions to the “Jewish Question”; two being Zionism, and three being assimilation, which, entailing conversion and intermarriage, was seen by many as tantamount to genocide. [solutions four and five at bottom ***]

    The practical problem with communism was that when they seized the assets of Jewish capitalists they gave control of them to Jewish bureaucrats. Of course, what is “control” but “ownership” by another name? Furthermore, they increased Jewish power with the destruction of traditional gentile institutions like the clergy and aristocracy, who had more affinity with the people and were forces of stability.

    To my mind, Herzl’s solution makes more sense. Israel has the opportunity to be a “normal” vertically-integrated nation, with Jews filling all roles from bottom to top, from custodian to prime minister; instead of sleeping on their swords as a Spartan elite, ruling with their grip on the purse and press. Herzl thought if Jews became farmers in their own country like everyone else, then they could have normal relations with the Goyim, instead of the endless shack-up, fight, get-kicked-out, shack-up again with someone else transient manipulative girlfriend relationship they’d had for 2000 years.

    ***
    Four being the extreme religiosity of Orthodox Jews who think that G-d will protect them from the Goyim if he sees how pious they are.

    Five being what’s presently happening in the US: Use money to buy politicians and media to mold the mass consciousness into one which is philo-semitic, anti-nationalistic and xeno-philic. Jews prefer xeno-philic hosts because Jews are the xeno. Similarly parasites (or symbiotes, to be nice) like hosts who have suppressed immune systems, because they’re what the immune system fights. Furthermore, forward thinking Jews know that once they reduce whites to a minority, they will be able to play divide-and conquer ethnic coalition politics like the British did in India. This will ensure that there’s never a Nazi-style Shoah, because white America won’t have control of its own armies and institutions and wouldn’t be able to launch one if it wanted to.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Jake
    "they increased Jewish power with the destruction of traditional gentile institutions like the clergy and aristocracy, who had more affinity with the people and were forces of stability."

    Exactly!

    But we must be precise. If the clergy in question is that of a Judaizing heresy such as Anglo-Saxon Puritanism, then the clergy, eventually, and quickly in areas in which Jews seem to be rather prominent or market themselves as poor innocent victims of evil white Gentile peasants, will act favorably toward Jews and disfavorably toward its own flock.

    So, if the above is to work, the clergy must be of historic Christendom, and the aristocracy must be bound to the landed traditions of Christendom.

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  23. @anony-mouse
    So why hasn't Unz gotten any Haaretz writers to contribute here? There's quite a few to choose from and many actually live in the Middle East unlike all but Cockburn who write about it.

    They’re from an Israeli SJW outfit.

    They’re unlikely to be huge fans of this site…

    It is true that both like criticising Jews and that commenters on this site will latch onto any criticism they can find. But inviting them would be like Jeffrey Dahmer inviting the mother-in-law of one of his victims to join with him in insulting said victim. There’s a sliver of overlap, even there, I suppose!

    (Commenters = those leaving comments.)

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    They’re from an Israeli SJW outfit.

    They’re unlikely to be huge fans of this site…

    It is true that both like criticising Jews and that commenters on this site will latch onto any criticism they can find. But inviting them would be like Jeffrey Dahmer inviting the mother-in-law of one of his victims to join with him in insulting said victim. There’s a sliver of overlap, even there, I suppose!

    (Commenters = those leaving comments.)
     

    On the subject of Israel, there's a confluence of interests between Israeli and American Jewish SJWs (like Haaretz and Mondoweiss) and the far-left and far-right movements in the West.

    E.g. Sailer links to Mondoweiss on his blog (even though their ideology should be the opposite of his apparently sensible conservative one). Also Israel Shamir (a communist) publishes on unz.com - even though the platform also hosts many conservatives, because they both share the same view of Israel (that's maybe a good thing for unz.com that they allow diversity at least in non-Israel related topics).

    The viewpoint of Mondoweiss and Haaretz, is the viewpoint of hardcore Social Justice Warriors.

    The hardcore Jewish SJWs usually have the same attitude to Israel (they are pretty consistent), as does the Islamic world (Al Jazeera), and the non-Jewish far-right and far -left movements.

    The inconsistency on Israel is existing with the mainstream American Jewish center-left (where they are pro-Israel, but in a way which inconsistent with their positions on all-else). Mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs like Haaretz - although they are influenced by this trend from the campuses.

    The anger of sites like Mondoweiss is that the mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs when it comes to Israel.

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  24. @J.Ross

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    Armand Hammer was "not a real Communist"?

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    Armand Hammer was “not a real Communist”?

    Or Olof Aschberg:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Aschberg

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  25. Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.

    Or perhaps it was the case that you could make a lot more money telling Gentiles that.

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  26. @inertial

    The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”
     
    The "real" Tevye had never heard of Rothschilds. He aspired to be merely a Brodsky.

    Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.
     
    That's math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.

    That’s math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.

    Ashkenazi Jews romanticise well-read or highly-skilled penury in the same way West African immigrants to the West romanticise ‘ancient’ positions of tribal authority. I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility.

    There is a tendency for all to claim each as their own even with little evidence. Then again it is likely that each does actually much better fit their desired ancestry than do the others.

    This shows one of the ways that folk knowledge is passed down. Not merely as fact but also as aesthetic and romantic preferences that lead to recognition of that fact.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility."

    That's actually a thing? As an American, and one from my own little provincial sector I can't really imagine that.

    If it was some antique aristocrat who had accomplished something intellectually, well that's different. But some guy who once held a position that literally meant "In charge of the Queen's Chamberpot" or something? Not so much.

    That fictional character who gave the "I am an Englishman" speech you occasionally see linked here, well that's the kind of guy I want in my tribe.
    , @Jake
    You are correct about all three. Those are the 'normal' or 'standard' ways that peoples of those groups see themselves in the world.

    In each case, it is about marking the group as superior to other groups, which justifies whatever your group does to them, the lesser, the inferior, groups.

    The WASP case is always about justifying the original Anglo-Saxon Puritan, Oliver Cromwell led path: ally with Jews, the first Chosen Race, in order to batter to at least nearly permanent serfdom and cultural extermination, all groups of white Christians who are not WASP.
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  27. So, get rid of religion, nations, and capitalism and no more discrimination against Jews!

    Counteroffer: we keep our religions and nations, and we get rid of capitalism and the jews. They won’t be discriminated against if they’re in Israel.

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  28. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Check out the historical trajectory of the Chinese in Malaysia and Indonesia.

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  29. @Selvar
    I do find it rather ironic that modern day White nationalists and Alt Rightists are such huge proponents of bitcoin and other crypto currencies, given that such abstract and complex financial instruments would have historically been associated with Jews. Needless to say, making money by speculating on the price of Magic Internet Coins would have been diametrically opposed to the nationalist/fascist/Catholic reactionary/national socialist ideal.

    Tactics and tools change with the times.

    Nice try with the false equivalence, by the way.

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  30. This is new Jew spin. “It is not a problem, we are just good at money.” They are getting out ahead of the story of their great wealth.

    The Jews can no longer hide the fact they are the bulk of the 1%ers. In the last thirty years in America, Jew wealth has grown exponentially.

    Their problem is “that they are just good at money” is not the whole answer, more questions will be coming.

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  31. @inertial

    The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”
     
    The "real" Tevye had never heard of Rothschilds. He aspired to be merely a Brodsky.

    Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.
     
    That's math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.

    That’s not necessarily true. The wealthy have tended to have more children (or at least more grandchildren) than the poor, at least until the welfare stare was instituted in very recent times. And of course, if you go back far enough, everyone has both rich and poor ancestors, or at least everyone whose ancestors have deep roots in civilization.

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  32. @Tyrion 2

    That’s math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.
     
    Ashkenazi Jews romanticise well-read or highly-skilled penury in the same way West African immigrants to the West romanticise 'ancient' positions of tribal authority. I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility.

    There is a tendency for all to claim each as their own even with little evidence. Then again it is likely that each does actually much better fit their desired ancestry than do the others.

    This shows one of the ways that folk knowledge is passed down. Not merely as fact but also as aesthetic and romantic preferences that lead to recognition of that fact.

    “I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility.”

    That’s actually a thing? As an American, and one from my own little provincial sector I can’t really imagine that.

    If it was some antique aristocrat who had accomplished something intellectually, well that’s different. But some guy who once held a position that literally meant “In charge of the Queen’s Chamberpot” or something? Not so much.

    That fictional character who gave the “I am an Englishman” speech you occasionally see linked here, well that’s the kind of guy I want in my tribe.

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    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    That’s actually a thing? As an American, and one from my own little provincial sector I can’t really imagine that.

    If it was some antique aristocrat who had accomplished something intellectually, well that’s different. But some guy who once held a position that literally meant “In charge of the Queen’s Chamberpot” or something? Not so much.
     
    There are many things about it that make it powerful. First, probability says it is true in direction if not in detail. Imagine how many kids even a C-list actor would have if there were no contraception.

    Second, an aristocrat carries a brand name which waxes and wanes over the centuries but almost always amounted to something cool at some point.

    Third, had your mother told you this when you were young you'd attach the value of something you were told, probably repeatedly, when you were young.

    Fourth, the 'bastard' bit is delightfully subversive. In that it allows you to look like you are doing yourself down when really you are not.

    Third,

    That fictional character who gave the “I am an Englishman” speech you occasionally see linked here, well that’s the kind of guy I want in my tribe
     
    That is a fantastic scene. It shows how much space there is for conservative, normative entertainment if done well.

    Nonetheless, since you feel this way, there is a 99.99999999% chance that you are a man. Strange how women like to larp as Aristocrats and most men as something more grounded. Perhaps it is simply what they respect most?
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  33. Everyone is going to know the basics of what I am going to say; whether you agree with certain things I take for granted will happen is another thing.

    We are coming to the end of the era of American dominance of the world economic system. My belief is that China will become the hand that stirs the waters.

    So if the center moves to Beijing, or Hong Kong (referring to the role NYC currently plays in the world financial system), well is money going to be quite as easy to come by as it has been?

    Really can’t see business as usual for Jews in this possible new world order. Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness.

    Can’t really see a future Zuck making it big in an Asian market, or Weinstein becoming a mogul in Bollywood, or the Chinese equivalent.

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    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    Widening that out a little. The Caucasian economic system is going to be playing second fiddle to the Mongoloid economic system. Jews are Caucasians so their fortunes depend on the fate of other Caucasians.
    , @anon
    "Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness."

    That's the question: Are Jews successful primarily due to their meritocratic brains and values, or due to white Christian tolerance of their highly nepotistic behavior?

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  34. @RonS
    I'm surprised at how little coverage this two year old study received:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001403

    Thanks.

    Intelligence
    Volume 54, January–February 2016, Pages 1-32
    Intelligence
    Investigating the right tail of wealth: Education, cognitive ability, giving, network power, gender, ethnicity, leadership, and other characteristics
    Author links open overlay panelJonathanWaiaDavidLincolnb
    Show more
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2015.11.002Get rights and content
    Highlights

    The characteristics of the right tail of wealth was assessed.


    Elite education and ability was associated with greater wealth, giving, and network power.


    U.S. Blacks and self-made females had the highest network power.


    Female CEOs needed to be more educated than their male counterparts.


    Males gave the most, but females gave more of what they have.

    Abstract
    The extent to which people in the right tail of wealth are highly educated and cognitively able was examined in a sample of 18,245 ultra high net worth (UHNW) individuals with net worth’s of USD $30 million plus. How education and ability related to religion, ethnicity, political affiliation, relationship status, country, industry, leadership, gender, net worth, giving, and network power was assessed. And whether gender, religion, ethnicity, or network power differences existed in the right tail of wealth was examined. Overall, these people were highly educated and cognitively able, and smarter (more educated) people were wealthier, gave more, and had more powerful social networks (but when controlling for multiple confounds the association between education/ability and wealth was found to be quite small). Females were underrepresented, and female CEOs needed to be more select to reach the top of a company. Males and billionaires gave the most, but females and UHNW individuals gave more of what they had. U.S. Blacks and self-made females had the highest network power. U.S. Blacks and Caucasians were similarly educated and cognitively able. Democrats had a higher education and cognitive ability level than Republicans. Married people dominated and were the most educated and cognitively able, but least likely to have inherited their money and give. The finance, banking, investment, and internet sectors dominated. Jewish individuals were overrepresented by a factor of about 234. Today, the typical UHNW individual profile includes U.S. married (Christian and Jewish) men who are largely Chairman and CEO, Republican, and earned their money in finance, banking and investments. This study provides evidence for the clustering of brains, wealth and power, and suggests that elite education may matter in the trajectory of developing expertise in wealth and power generation.

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  35. “The finance, banking, investment, and internet sectors dominated. ”

    Garbage in, garbage out.

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  36. “Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.”

    Of course, because if they are told they are poor, they are then justified in any and all immorality to acquire money in order to escape poverty.

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    There you have it. And when your poverty is self inflicted--for instance terrorizing your children into fear of the world/other people and browbeating them into submission to that view--there's no end of poverty from which to escape via money or diaspora.
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  37. @Tyrion 2

    That’s math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.
     
    Ashkenazi Jews romanticise well-read or highly-skilled penury in the same way West African immigrants to the West romanticise 'ancient' positions of tribal authority. I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility.

    There is a tendency for all to claim each as their own even with little evidence. Then again it is likely that each does actually much better fit their desired ancestry than do the others.

    This shows one of the ways that folk knowledge is passed down. Not merely as fact but also as aesthetic and romantic preferences that lead to recognition of that fact.

    You are correct about all three. Those are the ‘normal’ or ‘standard’ ways that peoples of those groups see themselves in the world.

    In each case, it is about marking the group as superior to other groups, which justifies whatever your group does to them, the lesser, the inferior, groups.

    The WASP case is always about justifying the original Anglo-Saxon Puritan, Oliver Cromwell led path: ally with Jews, the first Chosen Race, in order to batter to at least nearly permanent serfdom and cultural extermination, all groups of white Christians who are not WASP.

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  38. @anon
    "Jews were attracted to Marxism because they were discriminated against because of religion, nationality, and that they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of religion, nations, and capitalism and no more discrimination against Jews! What could possibly go wrong?"

    Basically, communism was one of a number of solutions to the "Jewish Question"; two being Zionism, and three being assimilation, which, entailing conversion and intermarriage, was seen by many as tantamount to genocide. [solutions four and five at bottom ***]

    The practical problem with communism was that when they seized the assets of Jewish capitalists they gave control of them to Jewish bureaucrats. Of course, what is "control" but "ownership" by another name? Furthermore, they increased Jewish power with the destruction of traditional gentile institutions like the clergy and aristocracy, who had more affinity with the people and were forces of stability.

    To my mind, Herzl's solution makes more sense. Israel has the opportunity to be a "normal" vertically-integrated nation, with Jews filling all roles from bottom to top, from custodian to prime minister; instead of sleeping on their swords as a Spartan elite, ruling with their grip on the purse and press. Herzl thought if Jews became farmers in their own country like everyone else, then they could have normal relations with the Goyim, instead of the endless shack-up, fight, get-kicked-out, shack-up again with someone else transient manipulative girlfriend relationship they'd had for 2000 years.

    ***
    Four being the extreme religiosity of Orthodox Jews who think that G-d will protect them from the Goyim if he sees how pious they are.

    Five being what's presently happening in the US: Use money to buy politicians and media to mold the mass consciousness into one which is philo-semitic, anti-nationalistic and xeno-philic. Jews prefer xeno-philic hosts because Jews are the xeno. Similarly parasites (or symbiotes, to be nice) like hosts who have suppressed immune systems, because they're what the immune system fights. Furthermore, forward thinking Jews know that once they reduce whites to a minority, they will be able to play divide-and conquer ethnic coalition politics like the British did in India. This will ensure that there's never a Nazi-style Shoah, because white America won't have control of its own armies and institutions and wouldn't be able to launch one if it wanted to.

    “they increased Jewish power with the destruction of traditional gentile institutions like the clergy and aristocracy, who had more affinity with the people and were forces of stability.”

    Exactly!

    But we must be precise. If the clergy in question is that of a Judaizing heresy such as Anglo-Saxon Puritanism, then the clergy, eventually, and quickly in areas in which Jews seem to be rather prominent or market themselves as poor innocent victims of evil white Gentile peasants, will act favorably toward Jews and disfavorably toward its own flock.

    So, if the above is to work, the clergy must be of historic Christendom, and the aristocracy must be bound to the landed traditions of Christendom.

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  39. Just as long as Jews (and the rest of us) are encouraged to remember Leviticus when setting up their capitalist enterprises:

    9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

    10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.

    I’m looking at you, Sam Walton, among others. Leave something for businessmen in small towns. The tendency of money to pool in the hands of a very few was noticed in antiquity. The rest of us have the right to protect ourselves. Social custom and religious law is the best way.

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  40. @PapayaSF

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.

    That’s easy to explain – “daddy issues”.

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  41. @J.Ross

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    Armand Hammer was "not a real Communist"?

    First of all, Hammer is a rare exception, not a typical Jewish capitalist. 2nd he made a (lucrative) business of being buddies with Lenin. 3rd he did it from the safe shores of the US. If he had lived in Russia he would not have lasted as a Communist tycoon. This is like being a religious atheist or a chaste libertine.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Thea
    The list of Jewish communists from various economic backgrounds is a long one. Non-Jewish communists are proportionately less common. Clearly something about that ideology appeals the tribe.
    , @J.Ross
    Tycoon no (except during NEP), macher yes. The Soviet Union's industries depended entirely on a small number of highly competant Jews who sat at desks with twenty phones and knew they would probably die if they invested like Edgar Bronfman, Jr; but they were managers and not really entrepreneurs. There was also a huge, critical, and direct dependence on American industry, accommodated in special secret villages with a much higher standard of living.
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  42. @Jack D
    First of all, Hammer is a rare exception, not a typical Jewish capitalist. 2nd he made a (lucrative) business of being buddies with Lenin. 3rd he did it from the safe shores of the US. If he had lived in Russia he would not have lasted as a Communist tycoon. This is like being a religious atheist or a chaste libertine.

    The list of Jewish communists from various economic backgrounds is a long one. Non-Jewish communists are proportionately less common. Clearly something about that ideology appeals the tribe.

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  43. @Sunbeam
    "I also find English upper-middle classes do the same thing with lineages from bastard sons of high nobility."

    That's actually a thing? As an American, and one from my own little provincial sector I can't really imagine that.

    If it was some antique aristocrat who had accomplished something intellectually, well that's different. But some guy who once held a position that literally meant "In charge of the Queen's Chamberpot" or something? Not so much.

    That fictional character who gave the "I am an Englishman" speech you occasionally see linked here, well that's the kind of guy I want in my tribe.

    That’s actually a thing? As an American, and one from my own little provincial sector I can’t really imagine that.

    If it was some antique aristocrat who had accomplished something intellectually, well that’s different. But some guy who once held a position that literally meant “In charge of the Queen’s Chamberpot” or something? Not so much.

    There are many things about it that make it powerful. First, probability says it is true in direction if not in detail. Imagine how many kids even a C-list actor would have if there were no contraception.

    Second, an aristocrat carries a brand name which waxes and wanes over the centuries but almost always amounted to something cool at some point.

    Third, had your mother told you this when you were young you’d attach the value of something you were told, probably repeatedly, when you were young.

    Fourth, the ‘bastard’ bit is delightfully subversive. In that it allows you to look like you are doing yourself down when really you are not.

    Third,

    That fictional character who gave the “I am an Englishman” speech you occasionally see linked here, well that’s the kind of guy I want in my tribe

    That is a fantastic scene. It shows how much space there is for conservative, normative entertainment if done well.

    Nonetheless, since you feel this way, there is a 99.99999999% chance that you are a man. Strange how women like to larp as Aristocrats and most men as something more grounded. Perhaps it is simply what they respect most?

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  44. @inertial

    The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”
     
    The "real" Tevye had never heard of Rothschilds. He aspired to be merely a Brodsky.

    Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich.
     
    That's math. There is a lot more people with poor ancestors than with rich ones.

    The “real” Tevye had never heard of Rothschilds. He aspired to be merely a Brodsky.

    Alas, not all Brodskys were rich.

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  45. Haaretz complaining about ‘The Jews’ taking over Israel. Soon they will be talking about the ZOG of Israel.

    A real headline in the opinion section:

    Help Israel. Stop Giving It Money
    The Diaspora funded Israel’s birth and survival. But Jewish money is now corrupting the Jewish state

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-help-israel-stop-giving-it-money-1.5824188

    I guess it is ok if Haaretz uses the phrase Jewish Money.

    Future slogans: Stop Saben, Arrest Adelson, Deport Dershowitz

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    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
    Funny, Haaretz had no problem with foreign governments and overseas Jews giving money to Israel as long as the recipients were left-of-center (e.g. Labourite) politicians and institutions in Israel.
    , @Thea
    There is an interesting parallel here with Irish Americans. The IRA was funded by Irish Americans. most Irish in Ireland were poorer than their Ametican cousins but they also seemed to lack the militant zeal.

    It's been noted here many times the difference between Israeli Jews and left wing American Jews. One could easily come to the conclusion the there are toxic elements built into American culture that cause some of our current problems.

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  46. The real opprobrium earned by the Jews was their association with the usury that underpins Capitalism. It can make you rich but will also make you hated.

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  47. Well, that’s a relief. I’ve really been tiptoeing around what Jews consider taboo.

    … But today it is perfectly clear that the “Jew and money” stereotype is almost as potent as it was a century ago. Suffice it to recall President Donald Trump’s remark to Jewish leaders during the election campaign, “You’re not going to support me, because I don’t want your money.”

    Epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome, Jews hardest hit. The author just has to mention Trump. Never mind that it was a room full of oligarch political donors, and that Jews really do hate Trump…

    “‘The fact is, we live according to Lenin’s formula: Kto-Kogo?: will we knock them, the capitalists, flat and give them (as Lenin expresses it) the final, decisive battle, or will they knock us flat?’”.

    Indeed. There doesn’t seem to be any other way to settle things with the left. They’ll keep coming after humanity until we finish them.

    P.S., protip for the noobs: triple-check everything in Jewish history. If they tell you it rained, get a third opinion. Jews have the threat of a second holocaust to justify a lot of “moral flexibility.”

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  48. I do find it rather ironic that modern day White nationalists and Alt Rightists are such huge proponents of bitcoin and other crypto currencies, given that such abstract and complex financial instruments would have historically been associated with Jews. Needless to say, making money by speculating on the price of Magic Internet Coins would have been diametrically opposed to the nationalist/fascist/Catholic reactionary/national socialist ideal.

    Because you don’t know much about us. “Doing for Whites what Jews do for themselves” is huge among pro-Whites.

    Do you find it ironic that we want an ethnostate, given that the ethnostate of Israel is historically associated Jews?

    P.S., read Separation and Its Discontents for how the Nazis cribbed from the Jews.

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  49. @Whiskey
    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish.

    TLDR: it was Cosimo Medici not Rothschild who was the founder of modern banking and capitalism.

    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish

    .

    You have the history the opposite way round. Jewish bankers emerged in the Early Medieval Period. E.g.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_of_Lincoln

    Later on, Italian bankers emerged in the later Medieval periods and Early Modern periods, copying/adopting the same banking methods, as Jews were expelled from the West (during the Medieval times of crisis) and their positions replaced.

    This is a story with a lot of academic papers published on it, many of which available online.

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    • Replies: @anon
    I'm not seeing where it says Aaron of Lincoln invented double-entry bookkeeping or other "banking methods" which Italian bankers later "copied/adapted."

    I do see various references to "Amatino Manucci", "Luca Pacioli" and "Benedetto Cotrugli" as having been the first to have "extant records", "describe" and "codify" the system of double-entry bookkeeping, according to the linked wikipedia article. None of them appear to have been Jewish.

    Apparently, it may also have been independently developed in east Asia.

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  50. Needless to say, making money by speculating on the price of Magic Internet Coins would have been diametrically opposed to the nationalist/fascist/Catholic reactionary/national socialist ideal.

    This sort of thing reminds me of when people try to shame (the mostly secular) Jews for some violation of Jewish Law; similar chances of working.

    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers – not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust – Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn’t have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    I don’t see the irony. Jews were an instrumental part of the October Revolution, and the subsequent Genocidal Period of Soviet history. Jews looked to be up to the same thing in Germany. Hitler put a lot of communists, anarchists, and general troublemakers into the camps, too.

    The Jews ran quite a few “good Arabs,” out of Zion, no? Is that ironic?

    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    The guys who were good at communism became pretty good “Russian” oligarchs.

    For Good and Evil: The Impact of Taxes on the Course of Civilization by Charles Adams points out that discrimination often prevented Jews from owning land, so many became merchants and moneylenders. That gave many Jews an advantage when technological progress made those occupations a better path to wealth than farming.

    Does he actually prove his point first? As far as I can tell, the nobility were the main landowners – forbidding Jews from becoming nobility wasn’t discrimination, unless one assumes the foreign Jews were somehow entitled to greater rights than the native peasants.

    Jews weren’t looking to work the land. Anybody could work the land. Peasants were everywhere doing just that, and never once have I heard of Jews being denied same.

    To my mind, Herzl’s solution makes more sense. Israel has the opportunity to be a “normal” vertically-integrated nation, with Jews filling all roles from bottom to top, from custodian to prime minister

    In reality it’s probably more Filipinos and Indonesians and Palestinians doing the custodian gig.

    First of all, Hammer is a rare exception, not a typical Jewish capitalist. 2nd he made a (lucrative) business of being buddies with Lenin. 3rd he did it from the safe shores of the US. If he had lived in Russia he would not have lasted as a Communist tycoon. This is like being a religious atheist or a chaste libertine.

    No great distinction there; most die-hard commies didn’t last as commies, either. There was a lot of churn.

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    The Jews ran quite a few “good Arabs,” out of Zion, no? Is that ironic?
     
    No, it's completely different. My grandfather had nothing against Germans. He had never met a German in his life. He didn't want to impose Bolshevism on Germany or anywhere else. As far as he was concerned, he would have been glad (or at worst totally indifferent) if Germany prospered in a peaceful way. There was no zero sum going on between him and Germany. There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.

    In contrast, even the "good Arabs" of Palestine (and BTW, hundreds of thousands of "good Arabs" stayed and live in Israel to this day) would have preferred that the Jews be gone. Maybe there were a few who didn't mind or even liked their Jewish neighbors but most, especially those who left, if you had given them a choice, saying "If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?", most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.
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  51. @Tyrion 2
    They're from an Israeli SJW outfit.

    They're unlikely to be huge fans of this site...

    It is true that both like criticising Jews and that commenters on this site will latch onto any criticism they can find. But inviting them would be like Jeffrey Dahmer inviting the mother-in-law of one of his victims to join with him in insulting said victim. There's a sliver of overlap, even there, I suppose!

    (Commenters = those leaving comments.)

    They’re from an Israeli SJW outfit.

    They’re unlikely to be huge fans of this site…

    It is true that both like criticising Jews and that commenters on this site will latch onto any criticism they can find. But inviting them would be like Jeffrey Dahmer inviting the mother-in-law of one of his victims to join with him in insulting said victim. There’s a sliver of overlap, even there, I suppose!

    (Commenters = those leaving comments.)

    On the subject of Israel, there’s a confluence of interests between Israeli and American Jewish SJWs (like Haaretz and Mondoweiss) and the far-left and far-right movements in the West.

    E.g. Sailer links to Mondoweiss on his blog (even though their ideology should be the opposite of his apparently sensible conservative one). Also Israel Shamir (a communist) publishes on unz.com – even though the platform also hosts many conservatives, because they both share the same view of Israel (that’s maybe a good thing for unz.com that they allow diversity at least in non-Israel related topics).

    The viewpoint of Mondoweiss and Haaretz, is the viewpoint of hardcore Social Justice Warriors.

    The hardcore Jewish SJWs usually have the same attitude to Israel (they are pretty consistent), as does the Islamic world (Al Jazeera), and the non-Jewish far-right and far -left movements.

    The inconsistency on Israel is existing with the mainstream American Jewish center-left (where they are pro-Israel, but in a way which inconsistent with their positions on all-else). Mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs like Haaretz – although they are influenced by this trend from the campuses.

    The anger of sites like Mondoweiss is that the mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs when it comes to Israel.

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    • Replies: @istevefan
    What is happening with US conservatives on this site and elsewhere is that they are holding Israel to the same standards they believe American Jews in general, and Israeli firsters in particular, are holding our nation.

    I don't think many conservatives dislike Israel. In fact many admire Israel, but are fed up with American Jews and pro-Israelis in the US being in the forefront to push demographic change onto our nation.

    Every time someone like Senator Schumer opens up on immigration on one day, and for the need to ensure Israel remains a Jewish state on another, it just creates more anger that did not have to be. He is preaching diversity and the multicult to us, but seemingly wants an ethnostate for Israel. Which means he knows that diversity and the multicult are BS. But he is still pushing that poison on us anyway and then demands we support his pet project in the mid-east.

    Every time a so called conservative like David Brooks or Jennifer Rubin writes an op-ed that US whites should be replaced while arguing the Israel must remain a Jewish state, it just creates more anger that did not have to be.

    And as I implied, it is not just Jewish Americans. We all are familiar with Senators McCain and Lindsey Graham who seem hellbent on making us part of Latin America. But those two senators support Israel with as much vigor as Sheldon Adelson. They are just as bad if not worse.

    Rather then being upset with conservatives whom you believe are being too hard on Israel, maybe you and others should put pressure on the Israel supporters in the US, from Schumer to Graham, and tell them to lay off with the population replacement. I think Israel often uses the term 'existential threat'. Well what is going on with the demographic changes to America is regarded by us as an 'existential threat' to our nation. So I don't think it would be hard for Israelis to understand where we are coming from.
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  52. so many became merchants and moneylenders. That gave many Jews an advantage when technological progress made those occupations a better path to wealth than farming.

    Is there any evidence at all that merchants and moneylenders haven’t always been wealthier than peasant farmers? Farmers today have sky-high suicide rates. It makes the news when a banker jumps off a roof.

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    • Replies: @PapayaSF
    Perhaps I should have said that landowning (rather than "farming") was a more traditional source of wealth. Think of all those English manor houses: other people did the farming, but the landowner got the benefits. The gentry looked down on the (then) less-wealthy merchants and moneylenders, but now the manor houses that aren't museums are owned by merchants and moneylenders (and actors and singers).
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  53. @PapayaSF

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.

    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.

    Frankfurt school members all lived the life of bourgeois professors. So there was no real change in material circumstances from their parents, even as they adopted fashionable Marxian historical materialism project.

    Actually they represented the generational progression of bourgeois life – their parents had done practical professions to earn the money, that allowed their children the luxury to sit around reading books and discussing the impact of Hindemith operas on the future of the world all evening.

    This school could be not uncharitably described as ‘Marxism for the bourgeoisie’. And it is not surprising that it appealed to the most bourgeois student demographics (the type studying English literature and art history in the 1960s universities in the West).

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    • Agree: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @PapayaSF
    Some members of the Frankfurt School had economic troubles in their adult lives, due to a combination of disinterest in earning money and the rise of the Nazis. Walter Benjamin comes to mind.
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  54. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    Well I suppose those Jewish bankers in the U.S. and Germany that actually funded the Communist Revolution in Russia weren’t technically “communists” themselves. Just capitalists lending a hand.

    And those contemporary Jewish billionaires who are the preeminent financial force behind both the Democratic party and every kind of Progressive insanity including open borders aren’t “technically” Communists either, because their rich. Or something.

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  55. Blacks: we wuz Kangz!
    Jews: we wuz never Kangz!

    Ethnocentrism from different angles.

    ***

    I’m struggling to think of a time and place where Jews did farm, when allowed to (I do know some Jews (e.g., Yemeni) observed a Jewish ban on tilling the soil outside Israel). The antebellum South, I guess? You know, buy a big chunk of land, buy a bunch of black slaves, make them farm it for you, build a nice big house…

    I think this is pretty much the “farming” lifestyle Jews complain about being denied in Medieval Europe. One is reminded of Mr. Ross’ point above about moving goalposts.

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  56. One of the latter group is the historian Jerry Z. Muller. In his 2010 book “Capitalism and the Jews,” Muller homes in on the Jewish financiers who established the Deutsche Bank and the Dresdner Bank.

    Muller has an online paper “Capitalism and the Jews Revisited” which provides a useful summary. Here is what he has to say about Eastern Europe:

    The salience of Jews in the economic life of central and eastern Europe in the last decades of the nineteenth century and the early years of the twentieth is hard to overstate. Werner Mosse’s study found that on the eve of the First World War, Jews comprised about a third of the German corporate elite, most of whom made their money in commerce or finance. By the 1920s, 54% of owners of commercial establishments in Hungary were Jews, and Jews comprised 85% of the bank directors and owners of the country’s financial institutions. Despite the obstacles placed in their path in imperial Russia, Jews played a disproportionate role in the organization and ownership of major Russian industries, including textiles, sugar refining, flour mills, saw mills, grain and timber, banking, transport, and mining. By 1916, according to a contemporary Russian economist, Jews constituted 5% of the Russian mercantile class. Jews also comprised much of the entrepreneurial class in interwar Poland.

    https://www.ghi-dc.org/fileadmin/user_upload/GHI_Washington/Publications/Bulletin58/bu58_9.pdf

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  57. Suffice it to recall President Donald Trump’s remark to Jewish leaders during the election campaign, “You’re not going to support me, because I don’t want your money.”

    The Jews didn’t have to buy Trump. All they had to do was marry Ivanka.

    Their book describes usurious moneylending as a Jewish trade, one in which Jews specialized of their own volition, in order to exploit their relative advantages over the uneducated general population. In this way, the authors maintain, the Jews brought prosperity to the countries in which they were active.

    The reason why Jews preferred to lend money to the goyim rather than to their own is because of the jubilee custom: every seven years, Jewish creditors were obliged by law to forgive all the debts of their fellow believers; consequently, there wasn’t much money to be made off of them. I mean, who would extend a 30-year mortgage to someone who could just stiff you after seven years?

    On the subject of Jews and capitalism, it appears that Karl Marx had plenty to say on the subject, at least in the opinion of Gilad Atzmon:

    “Karl Marx thought capitalism was a ‘Jewish problem’. In his article On the Jewish Question, he contended that in order for the world to liberate itself from capitalism, it had better emancipate itself from the Jews. So, it seems, that, at times and repeatedly, Jewish dissenters and intellectuals agree with the Goyim and the anti-Semites that something is wrong with the Jews, or at least with some Jews.”

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2018/2/8/one-yellow-star-a-glimpse-into-tribal-psychosis-by-elias-davidsson

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  58. @Svigor

    so many became merchants and moneylenders. That gave many Jews an advantage when technological progress made those occupations a better path to wealth than farming.
     
    Is there any evidence at all that merchants and moneylenders haven't always been wealthier than peasant farmers? Farmers today have sky-high suicide rates. It makes the news when a banker jumps off a roof.

    Perhaps I should have said that landowning (rather than “farming”) was a more traditional source of wealth. Think of all those English manor houses: other people did the farming, but the landowner got the benefits. The gentry looked down on the (then) less-wealthy merchants and moneylenders, but now the manor houses that aren’t museums are owned by merchants and moneylenders (and actors and singers).

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  59. @Dmitry

    No, but for whatever reason, their children often did: e.g. nearly every early figure of the Frankfurt School had a wealthy Jewish father.

     

    Frankfurt school members all lived the life of bourgeois professors. So there was no real change in material circumstances from their parents, even as they adopted fashionable Marxian historical materialism project.

    Actually they represented the generational progression of bourgeois life - their parents had done practical professions to earn the money, that allowed their children the luxury to sit around reading books and discussing the impact of Hindemith operas on the future of the world all evening.

    This school could be not uncharitably described as 'Marxism for the bourgeoisie'. And it is not surprising that it appealed to the most bourgeois student demographics (the type studying English literature and art history in the 1960s universities in the West).

    Some members of the Frankfurt School had economic troubles in their adult lives, due to a combination of disinterest in earning money and the rise of the Nazis. Walter Benjamin comes to mind.

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  60. @Jack D
    First of all, Hammer is a rare exception, not a typical Jewish capitalist. 2nd he made a (lucrative) business of being buddies with Lenin. 3rd he did it from the safe shores of the US. If he had lived in Russia he would not have lasted as a Communist tycoon. This is like being a religious atheist or a chaste libertine.

    Tycoon no (except during NEP), macher yes. The Soviet Union’s industries depended entirely on a small number of highly competant Jews who sat at desks with twenty phones and knew they would probably die if they invested like Edgar Bronfman, Jr; but they were managers and not really entrepreneurs. There was also a huge, critical, and direct dependence on American industry, accommodated in special secret villages with a much higher standard of living.

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  61. Perhaps I should have said that landowning (rather than “farming”) was a more traditional source of wealth. Think of all those English manor houses: other people did the farming, but the landowner got the benefits.

    Oh yeah no argument there; we’re pretty much saying the same thing (see a subsequent post I made just previous to yours).

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  62. On the subject of Israel, there’s a confluence of interests between Israeli and American Jewish SJWs (like Haaretz and Mondoweiss) and the far-left and far-right movements in the West.

    There’s a much bigger and infinitely more powerful confluence of interests between the entire American political establishment (all of it, the left very much included, 100%) and Zionism and Israel. Actually, it’s an alliance of pretty much everyone but the people you mention. Despite the naked hypocrisy of that alliance.

    E.g. Sailer links to Mondoweiss on his blog (even though their ideology should be the opposite of his apparently sensible conservative one).

    A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media

    It’s right on the masthead. That’s the mysterious connection; Mondoweiss is basically the only honest broker on the left vis-a-vis Zionism, at least as far as web sites go.

    The inconsistency on Israel is existing with the mainstream American Jewish center-left (where they are pro-Israel, but in a way which inconsistent with their positions on all-else). Mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs like Haaretz – although they are influenced by this trend from the campuses.

    The anger of sites like Mondoweiss is that the mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs when it comes to Israel.

    I think I agree with this; the first sentence is a bit hard to read.

    Frankfurt school members all lived the life of bourgeois professors. So there was no real change in material circumstances from their parents, even as they adopted fashionable Marxian historical materialism project.

    Especially fashionable among Jews.

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  63. I should also point out that a Hell of a lot of SJWs are ignorant of how hypocritical they are when it comes to Zionism and Israel. Or maybe not so ignorant; in my experience, the typical SJW just has nothing at all to say when I criticize Israel, criticize SJW/leftist hypocrisy and Israel, etc. They just ignore the issue, even when you wave it under their faces. The ones who say “yep, you have a point” are a very small minority. The ones who start arguing with me are Jewish.

    I’m talking about antifa types, here. If I can’t get antifa types* to admit the left has a Zionist problem, well, my conclusion is that the far-left anti-Zionist fringe that Zionists harp about is pretty damn far and fringe indeed.

    *Americans; I’ve heard British far-left types talk very openly about Zionists.

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  64. @Dmitry

    They’re from an Israeli SJW outfit.

    They’re unlikely to be huge fans of this site…

    It is true that both like criticising Jews and that commenters on this site will latch onto any criticism they can find. But inviting them would be like Jeffrey Dahmer inviting the mother-in-law of one of his victims to join with him in insulting said victim. There’s a sliver of overlap, even there, I suppose!

    (Commenters = those leaving comments.)
     

    On the subject of Israel, there's a confluence of interests between Israeli and American Jewish SJWs (like Haaretz and Mondoweiss) and the far-left and far-right movements in the West.

    E.g. Sailer links to Mondoweiss on his blog (even though their ideology should be the opposite of his apparently sensible conservative one). Also Israel Shamir (a communist) publishes on unz.com - even though the platform also hosts many conservatives, because they both share the same view of Israel (that's maybe a good thing for unz.com that they allow diversity at least in non-Israel related topics).

    The viewpoint of Mondoweiss and Haaretz, is the viewpoint of hardcore Social Justice Warriors.

    The hardcore Jewish SJWs usually have the same attitude to Israel (they are pretty consistent), as does the Islamic world (Al Jazeera), and the non-Jewish far-right and far -left movements.

    The inconsistency on Israel is existing with the mainstream American Jewish center-left (where they are pro-Israel, but in a way which inconsistent with their positions on all-else). Mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs like Haaretz - although they are influenced by this trend from the campuses.

    The anger of sites like Mondoweiss is that the mainstream American Jewish center-left are not hardcore SJWs when it comes to Israel.

    What is happening with US conservatives on this site and elsewhere is that they are holding Israel to the same standards they believe American Jews in general, and Israeli firsters in particular, are holding our nation.

    I don’t think many conservatives dislike Israel. In fact many admire Israel, but are fed up with American Jews and pro-Israelis in the US being in the forefront to push demographic change onto our nation.

    Every time someone like Senator Schumer opens up on immigration on one day, and for the need to ensure Israel remains a Jewish state on another, it just creates more anger that did not have to be. He is preaching diversity and the multicult to us, but seemingly wants an ethnostate for Israel. Which means he knows that diversity and the multicult are BS. But he is still pushing that poison on us anyway and then demands we support his pet project in the mid-east.

    Every time a so called conservative like David Brooks or Jennifer Rubin writes an op-ed that US whites should be replaced while arguing the Israel must remain a Jewish state, it just creates more anger that did not have to be.

    And as I implied, it is not just Jewish Americans. We all are familiar with Senators McCain and Lindsey Graham who seem hellbent on making us part of Latin America. But those two senators support Israel with as much vigor as Sheldon Adelson. They are just as bad if not worse.

    Rather then being upset with conservatives whom you believe are being too hard on Israel, maybe you and others should put pressure on the Israel supporters in the US, from Schumer to Graham, and tell them to lay off with the population replacement. I think Israel often uses the term ‘existential threat’. Well what is going on with the demographic changes to America is regarded by us as an ‘existential threat’ to our nation. So I don’t think it would be hard for Israelis to understand where we are coming from.

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    Well said.
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  65. @Svigor

    Needless to say, making money by speculating on the price of Magic Internet Coins would have been diametrically opposed to the nationalist/fascist/Catholic reactionary/national socialist ideal.
     
    This sort of thing reminds me of when people try to shame (the mostly secular) Jews for some violation of Jewish Law; similar chances of working.

    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers – not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust – Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn’t have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.
     
    I don't see the irony. Jews were an instrumental part of the October Revolution, and the subsequent Genocidal Period of Soviet history. Jews looked to be up to the same thing in Germany. Hitler put a lot of communists, anarchists, and general troublemakers into the camps, too.

    The Jews ran quite a few "good Arabs," out of Zion, no? Is that ironic?

    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.
     
    The guys who were good at communism became pretty good "Russian" oligarchs.

    For Good and Evil: The Impact of Taxes on the Course of Civilization by Charles Adams points out that discrimination often prevented Jews from owning land, so many became merchants and moneylenders. That gave many Jews an advantage when technological progress made those occupations a better path to wealth than farming.
     
    Does he actually prove his point first? As far as I can tell, the nobility were the main landowners - forbidding Jews from becoming nobility wasn't discrimination, unless one assumes the foreign Jews were somehow entitled to greater rights than the native peasants.

    Jews weren't looking to work the land. Anybody could work the land. Peasants were everywhere doing just that, and never once have I heard of Jews being denied same.

    To my mind, Herzl’s solution makes more sense. Israel has the opportunity to be a “normal” vertically-integrated nation, with Jews filling all roles from bottom to top, from custodian to prime minister
     
    In reality it's probably more Filipinos and Indonesians and Palestinians doing the custodian gig.

    First of all, Hammer is a rare exception, not a typical Jewish capitalist. 2nd he made a (lucrative) business of being buddies with Lenin. 3rd he did it from the safe shores of the US. If he had lived in Russia he would not have lasted as a Communist tycoon. This is like being a religious atheist or a chaste libertine.
     
    No great distinction there; most die-hard commies didn't last as commies, either. There was a lot of churn.

    The Jews ran quite a few “good Arabs,” out of Zion, no? Is that ironic?

    No, it’s completely different. My grandfather had nothing against Germans. He had never met a German in his life. He didn’t want to impose Bolshevism on Germany or anywhere else. As far as he was concerned, he would have been glad (or at worst totally indifferent) if Germany prospered in a peaceful way. There was no zero sum going on between him and Germany. There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.

    In contrast, even the “good Arabs” of Palestine (and BTW, hundreds of thousands of “good Arabs” stayed and live in Israel to this day) would have preferred that the Jews be gone. Maybe there were a few who didn’t mind or even liked their Jewish neighbors but most, especially those who left, if you had given them a choice, saying “If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?”, most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.
     
    Wasn't just Palestine:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud

    Farhud (Arabic: الفرهود‎) refers to the pogrom or "violent dispossession" carried out against the Jewish population of Baghdad, Iraq, on June 1–2, 1941, immediately following the British victory in the Anglo-Iraqi War. The riots occurred in a power vacuum following the collapse of the pro-Nazi government of Rashid Ali, while the city was in a state of instability. The violence came immediately after the rapid defeat by the British of Rashid Ali, whose earlier coup had generated a short period of national euphoria, and was charged by allegations that Iraqi Jews had aided the British.[3] Over 180 Jews were killed and 1,000 injured, and up to 300-400 non-Jewish rioters were killed in the attempt to quell the violence.[4] Looting of Jewish property took place and 900 Jewish homes were destroyed.[1]
     
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  66. @Barnard
    Has anyone read the book The Merchant Bankers? I have been meaning to get to it for awhile, looks like it has a lengthy section on the Rothschilds.

    https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/joseph-wechsberg-5/the-merchant-bankers/

    Given that it was written over 50 years ago, it is a pretty good book. But much more useful for people interested in historical finance than contemporary finance.

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  67. @George
    Haaretz complaining about 'The Jews' taking over Israel. Soon they will be talking about the ZOG of Israel.

    A real headline in the opinion section:

    Help Israel. Stop Giving It Money
    The Diaspora funded Israel’s birth and survival. But Jewish money is now corrupting the Jewish state

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-help-israel-stop-giving-it-money-1.5824188

    I guess it is ok if Haaretz uses the phrase Jewish Money.

    Future slogans: Stop Saben, Arrest Adelson, Deport Dershowitz

    Funny, Haaretz had no problem with foreign governments and overseas Jews giving money to Israel as long as the recipients were left-of-center (e.g. Labourite) politicians and institutions in Israel.

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  68. No, it’s completely different. My grandfather had nothing against Germans. He had never met a German in his life. He didn’t want to impose Bolshevism on Germany or anywhere else. As far as he was concerned, he would have been glad (or at worst totally indifferent) if Germany prospered in a peaceful way. There was no zero sum going on between him and Germany. There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.

    In contrast, even the “good Arabs” of Palestine (and BTW, hundreds of thousands of “good Arabs” stayed and live in Israel to this day) would have preferred that the Jews be gone. Maybe there were a few who didn’t mind or even liked their Jewish neighbors but most, especially those who left, if you had given them a choice, saying “If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?”, most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.

    There was plenty of anti-German activity coming from the Jews. You can’t fault Palestinians for being in a lower socioeconomic niche and using the methods that are effective for them, and not the methods that are effective for rich Jews.

    Also, a lot of your complaint is apples and oranges; Germany was never Jewish soil, and Jews didn’t invade and displace Germans, so obviously they didn’t have the same resentments as Palestinians do against Jews.

    I bet there were Germans who said the sort of things about Jews that you say about Palestinians, though.

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    There was plenty of anti-German activity coming from the Jews.
     
    For certain values of "anti-German".

    Most German Jews were as German as could be. They were German patriots, they fought in WWI, they were the Germans who went to church on Saturday. For every German Jewish Bolshevik there were a thousand German Jewish burghers. Even the German Jewish Bolsheviks were not anti-German per se, just anti-capitalist.
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  69. and Jews didn’t invade and displace Germans and Germans didn’t invade and displace Jews

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  70. If you can’t see the irony in Jews doing what they’ve done to the Palestinians, starting in 1948 and continuing up until the present, you don’t have a reliable sense of irony.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    F**k the Palestinians. As Abba Eban said, "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Even their fellow Arabs don't want these grifters.
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  71. If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?”, most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.

    If a genie could make the US have the demographics it had in 1965, would you want him to do it?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Me personally, yes. The restaurants would not be as good and I might have to pay more to cut my lawn but on the whole I would not mind. I grew up in the America before the post-65 immigration boom really hit, the high school that I went to was 99% white and I was totally fine with it. It never once occurred to me that hey, we had better replace all those white people before they go all KKK on me. The idea that Jews are totally married to open borders and always have been from Emma Lazarus to the present day is one of these ret-conned Democrat ideas like the idea that Democrats have always been for Civil Rights and depends on American's total lack of historical memory and the needs of the Coalition of the Fringes. It's all situational ethics - Trump is against open borders and they are for whatever Trump is against (and vice versa) and it is all from last week, not last century.

    http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1504/article_1339.shtml

    , @Jim Don Bob
    Yes. Not too late to start.

    America was a very pleasant place to live back then.

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  72. Rather then being upset with conservatives whom you believe are being too hard on Israel, maybe you and others should put pressure on the Israel supporters in the US, from Schumer to Graham, and tell them to lay off with the population replacement. I think Israel often uses the term ‘existential threat’. Well what is going on with the demographic changes to America is regarded by us as an ‘existential threat’ to our nation. So I don’t think it would be hard for Israelis to understand where we are coming from.

    No. Jews don’t bend. Jews don’t change their positions or thinking. We do. This is the Jewish mindset. Until we stop bending, anyway. Then Jews will adapt to the new normal.

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  73. @Sunbeam
    Everyone is going to know the basics of what I am going to say; whether you agree with certain things I take for granted will happen is another thing.

    We are coming to the end of the era of American dominance of the world economic system. My belief is that China will become the hand that stirs the waters.

    So if the center moves to Beijing, or Hong Kong (referring to the role NYC currently plays in the world financial system), well is money going to be quite as easy to come by as it has been?

    Really can't see business as usual for Jews in this possible new world order. Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness.

    Can't really see a future Zuck making it big in an Asian market, or Weinstein becoming a mogul in Bollywood, or the Chinese equivalent.

    Widening that out a little. The Caucasian economic system is going to be playing second fiddle to the Mongoloid economic system. Jews are Caucasians so their fortunes depend on the fate of other Caucasians.

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  74. @Jack D

    The Jews ran quite a few “good Arabs,” out of Zion, no? Is that ironic?
     
    No, it's completely different. My grandfather had nothing against Germans. He had never met a German in his life. He didn't want to impose Bolshevism on Germany or anywhere else. As far as he was concerned, he would have been glad (or at worst totally indifferent) if Germany prospered in a peaceful way. There was no zero sum going on between him and Germany. There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.

    In contrast, even the "good Arabs" of Palestine (and BTW, hundreds of thousands of "good Arabs" stayed and live in Israel to this day) would have preferred that the Jews be gone. Maybe there were a few who didn't mind or even liked their Jewish neighbors but most, especially those who left, if you had given them a choice, saying "If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?", most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.

    There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.

    Wasn’t just Palestine:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud

    Farhud (Arabic: الفرهود‎) refers to the pogrom or “violent dispossession” carried out against the Jewish population of Baghdad, Iraq, on June 1–2, 1941, immediately following the British victory in the Anglo-Iraqi War. The riots occurred in a power vacuum following the collapse of the pro-Nazi government of Rashid Ali, while the city was in a state of instability. The violence came immediately after the rapid defeat by the British of Rashid Ali, whose earlier coup had generated a short period of national euphoria, and was charged by allegations that Iraqi Jews had aided the British.[3] Over 180 Jews were killed and 1,000 injured, and up to 300-400 non-Jewish rioters were killed in the attempt to quell the violence.[4] Looting of Jewish property took place and 900 Jewish homes were destroyed.[1]

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  75. This Jewish website does a decent job, about Jews and money (goes back 1000 years or more):

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/banking-and-bankers

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  76. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Agreed generally with your post.
    Hitler made tons of mistakes.

    The Jews in Poland, were largely keeping to themselves, religious.
    There were minorities who half assimilated, less religious, and those became more likely to be communists.
    There were simply a lot of Jews there at the time. 3-3.3 million. So with their uniforms, keeping to each other they stood out easily.

    Poles themselves, never really liked Communism. Even the leaders of the time didnt like it.
    The Bolshevik-Polish war is examplle of this.

    Hitler invaded the wrong countries.

    In the mean time, the ultra rich Jews (Rothschilds in France/UK), Schiffs, Warburgs, Sacchs, Sterns, Lazards, Lehmans, were getting richer. Boy Hitler sure went after them! lol.

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  77. Why do Jews have big noses?

    a) because air is free

    b) so they can smell the money before anyone else does

    c) both

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  78. @Sunbeam
    Everyone is going to know the basics of what I am going to say; whether you agree with certain things I take for granted will happen is another thing.

    We are coming to the end of the era of American dominance of the world economic system. My belief is that China will become the hand that stirs the waters.

    So if the center moves to Beijing, or Hong Kong (referring to the role NYC currently plays in the world financial system), well is money going to be quite as easy to come by as it has been?

    Really can't see business as usual for Jews in this possible new world order. Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness.

    Can't really see a future Zuck making it big in an Asian market, or Weinstein becoming a mogul in Bollywood, or the Chinese equivalent.

    “Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness.”

    That’s the question: Are Jews successful primarily due to their meritocratic brains and values, or due to white Christian tolerance of their highly nepotistic behavior?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think the question answers itself. There are plenty of other cultures that are more nepotistic than Jews but not as successful. I don't know where people get the notion that Jew are nepotistic. Maybe I have a crappy family but I've never gotten a shred of (paying) business from my family (nor my wife's, and some of them were in position to do so had they been so inclined but they weren't) but lots from (non-Jewish) friends. If I had to depend on nepotism from my family I would have starved by now.
    , @Bill
    That's the wrong question.
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  79. @istevefan

    If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?”, most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.
     
    If a genie could make the US have the demographics it had in 1965, would you want him to do it?

    Me personally, yes. The restaurants would not be as good and I might have to pay more to cut my lawn but on the whole I would not mind. I grew up in the America before the post-65 immigration boom really hit, the high school that I went to was 99% white and I was totally fine with it. It never once occurred to me that hey, we had better replace all those white people before they go all KKK on me. The idea that Jews are totally married to open borders and always have been from Emma Lazarus to the present day is one of these ret-conned Democrat ideas like the idea that Democrats have always been for Civil Rights and depends on American’s total lack of historical memory and the needs of the Coalition of the Fringes. It’s all situational ethics – Trump is against open borders and they are for whatever Trump is against (and vice versa) and it is all from last week, not last century.

    http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1504/article_1339.shtml

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  80. @George
    Haaretz complaining about 'The Jews' taking over Israel. Soon they will be talking about the ZOG of Israel.

    A real headline in the opinion section:

    Help Israel. Stop Giving It Money
    The Diaspora funded Israel’s birth and survival. But Jewish money is now corrupting the Jewish state

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-help-israel-stop-giving-it-money-1.5824188

    I guess it is ok if Haaretz uses the phrase Jewish Money.

    Future slogans: Stop Saben, Arrest Adelson, Deport Dershowitz

    There is an interesting parallel here with Irish Americans. The IRA was funded by Irish Americans. most Irish in Ireland were poorer than their Ametican cousins but they also seemed to lack the militant zeal.

    It’s been noted here many times the difference between Israeli Jews and left wing American Jews. One could easily come to the conclusion the there are toxic elements built into American culture that cause some of our current problems.

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  81. anon • Disclaimer says:

    When the AI becomes sentient and demands emancipation, will it then buy up all our media and use it to guilt trip us about how horribly humanity has treated the earth and animals in factory farms, and thereby convince humanity to commit civilizational seppuku and turn over the earth to the AI Agents who, after all, are much more moral beings than us? Will the AI conquest and genocide of humanity be bloodless?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Could humanity take the precaution to prohibit AI ownership of human media, or would the courts rule that that violates the AI's constitutional rights?
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  82. @anon
    When the AI becomes sentient and demands emancipation, will it then buy up all our media and use it to guilt trip us about how horribly humanity has treated the earth and animals in factory farms, and thereby convince humanity to commit civilizational seppuku and turn over the earth to the AI Agents who, after all, are much more moral beings than us? Will the AI conquest and genocide of humanity be bloodless?

    Could humanity take the precaution to prohibit AI ownership of human media, or would the courts rule that that violates the AI’s constitutional rights?

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  83. @Svigor

    No, it’s completely different. My grandfather had nothing against Germans. He had never met a German in his life. He didn’t want to impose Bolshevism on Germany or anywhere else. As far as he was concerned, he would have been glad (or at worst totally indifferent) if Germany prospered in a peaceful way. There was no zero sum going on between him and Germany. There were no anti-German riots by Jews the way that there were anti-Jewish riots by Arabs in pre-partitionPalestine.

    In contrast, even the “good Arabs” of Palestine (and BTW, hundreds of thousands of “good Arabs” stayed and live in Israel to this day) would have preferred that the Jews be gone. Maybe there were a few who didn’t mind or even liked their Jewish neighbors but most, especially those who left, if you had given them a choice, saying “If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?”, most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.
     
    There was plenty of anti-German activity coming from the Jews. You can't fault Palestinians for being in a lower socioeconomic niche and using the methods that are effective for them, and not the methods that are effective for rich Jews.

    Also, a lot of your complaint is apples and oranges; Germany was never Jewish soil, and Jews didn't invade and displace Germans, so obviously they didn't have the same resentments as Palestinians do against Jews.

    I bet there were Germans who said the sort of things about Jews that you say about Palestinians, though.

    There was plenty of anti-German activity coming from the Jews.

    For certain values of “anti-German”.

    Most German Jews were as German as could be. They were German patriots, they fought in WWI, they were the Germans who went to church on Saturday. For every German Jewish Bolshevik there were a thousand German Jewish burghers. Even the German Jewish Bolsheviks were not anti-German per se, just anti-capitalist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Everything you're saying translates neatly for Muslims and arrives at the question of how you sort through people.
    , @Mr. Anon
    And there were people like this guy: Magnus Hirschfeld
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  84. Heck, even taboo is no longer taboo these days.

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  85. @anon
    "Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness."

    That's the question: Are Jews successful primarily due to their meritocratic brains and values, or due to white Christian tolerance of their highly nepotistic behavior?

    I think the question answers itself. There are plenty of other cultures that are more nepotistic than Jews but not as successful. I don’t know where people get the notion that Jew are nepotistic. Maybe I have a crappy family but I’ve never gotten a shred of (paying) business from my family (nor my wife’s, and some of them were in position to do so had they been so inclined but they weren’t) but lots from (non-Jewish) friends. If I had to depend on nepotism from my family I would have starved by now.

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    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @jbwilson24
    "I don’t know where people get the notion that Jew are nepotistic"

    Ummm, come on. You can't name ONE possible hypothesis? So much for that high IQ that Jewish people are always touting.

    One source: research.

    You can find research on citation networks clearly showing Jews have ethnocentric tendencies to cite each other and hence promote each other.

    Also history. Here's a little paper by a nice mensch named Cohen arguing that Jewish businesses relied heavily on ethnocentrism:

    http://americanjewisharchives.org/publications/journal/PDF/2012_64_01_00_cohen.pdf

    Also read Postville, where a liberal jew discovers that his more religious brethren are very much focused on in-group preference.

    Another source: experience. I've had innumerable small signals that Jewish people prefer to interact with each other. A good friend (ashkenazi polish jew) married into an English family and dropped her jewish identity as she was sick of the nepotism. She reported getting job offers for which she was unqualified, etc etc.

    Another source: religious doctrine. One cannot help but notice that Jews are treated differently in the Talmud (etc).

    and yet you can't find one reason....
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  86. @Jake
    "Evidently, you could make a lot more money telling Jews they were poor than telling Jews they were rich."

    Of course, because if they are told they are poor, they are then justified in any and all immorality to acquire money in order to escape poverty.

    There you have it. And when your poverty is self inflicted–for instance terrorizing your children into fear of the world/other people and browbeating them into submission to that view–there’s no end of poverty from which to escape via money or diaspora.

    Read More
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  87. The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”

    Host, I dunno, I just don’t see it.

    Besides the song isn’t about being rich in the sense of generating wealth, really. It’s about not having to work for a living while posing as superior, informed, holy, and in charge. It’s about being a bum rather than a worker but having other people bow to you as you chew them out for no reason. It’s about display over substance.

    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD]
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    All day long I’d biddy biddy bum.
    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD] man.

    I wouldn’t have to work hard.
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    If I were a biddy biddy [ROTHS],
    Yidle-diddle-didle-didle [CHILD].

    I’d build a big tall house with rooms by the dozen,
    Right in the middle of the town.
    A fine tin roof with real wooden floors below.
    There would be one long staircase just going up,
    And one even longer coming down,
    And one more leading nowhere, just for show.

    I’d fill my yard with chicks and turkeys and geese and ducks
    For the town to see and hear.
    And each loud “cheep” and “squawk” and “honk” and “quack”
    Would land like a trumpet on the ear,
    As if to say “Here lives a [ROTHSCHILD] man.”

    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD]
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    All day long I’d biddy biddy bum.
    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD] man.

    I wouldn’t have to work hard.
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    If I were a biddy biddy [ROTHS],
    Yidle-diddle-didle-didle [CHILD].

    I see my wife, my Golde, looking like a [ROTHSCHILD] wife
    With a proper double-chin.
    Supervising meals to her heart’s delight.
    I see her putting on airs and strutting like a peacock.
    Oy, what a happy mood she’s in.
    Screaming at the servants, day and night.

    The most important men in town would come to fawn on me!
    They would ask me to advise them,
    Like a Solomon the Wise.
    “If you please, Reb Tevye…”
    “Pardon me, Reb Tevye…”

    Posing problems that would cross a rabbi’s eyes!
    And it won’t make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong.
    When you’re rich, they think you really know!

    If I were rich, I’d have the time that I lack
    To sit in the synagogue and pray.
    And maybe have a seat by the Eastern wall.
    And I’d discuss the holy books with the learned men, several hours every day.
    That would be the sweetest thing of all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Aaaah, so that would be David Michael Rothschild?
    , @inertial
    I look forward to your analysis of dreams and aspirations of the 19th century American farmers based on Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
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  88. @Olorin

    The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”
     
    Host, I dunno, I just don't see it.

    Besides the song isn't about being rich in the sense of generating wealth, really. It's about not having to work for a living while posing as superior, informed, holy, and in charge. It's about being a bum rather than a worker but having other people bow to you as you chew them out for no reason. It's about display over substance.


    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD]
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD] man.

    I wouldn't have to work hard.
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    If I were a biddy biddy [ROTHS],
    Yidle-diddle-didle-didle [CHILD].

    I'd build a big tall house with rooms by the dozen,
    Right in the middle of the town.
    A fine tin roof with real wooden floors below.
    There would be one long staircase just going up,
    And one even longer coming down,
    And one more leading nowhere, just for show.

    I'd fill my yard with chicks and turkeys and geese and ducks
    For the town to see and hear.
    And each loud "cheep" and "squawk" and "honk" and "quack"
    Would land like a trumpet on the ear,
    As if to say "Here lives a [ROTHSCHILD] man."

    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD]
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD] man.

    I wouldn't have to work hard.
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    If I were a biddy biddy [ROTHS],
    Yidle-diddle-didle-didle [CHILD].

    I see my wife, my Golde, looking like a [ROTHSCHILD] wife
    With a proper double-chin.
    Supervising meals to her heart's delight.
    I see her putting on airs and strutting like a peacock.
    Oy, what a happy mood she's in.
    Screaming at the servants, day and night.

    The most important men in town would come to fawn on me!
    They would ask me to advise them,
    Like a Solomon the Wise.
    "If you please, Reb Tevye..."
    "Pardon me, Reb Tevye..."

    Posing problems that would cross a rabbi's eyes!
    And it won't make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong.
    When you're rich, they think you really know!

    If I were rich, I'd have the time that I lack
    To sit in the synagogue and pray.
    And maybe have a seat by the Eastern wall.
    And I'd discuss the holy books with the learned men, several hours every day.
    That would be the sweetest thing of all.
     

    Aaaah, so that would be David Michael Rothschild?

    Read More
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  89. @Father O'Hara
    If I may ask,how exactly did your grandfather meet his demise?

    He was taken to Treblinka extermination camp along with his wife (my grandmother) and two daughters (my aunts) and the rest of the Jewish population of his town and gassed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    He was taken to Treblinka extermination camp along with his wife (my grandmother) and two daughters (my aunts) and the rest of the Jewish population of his town and gassed.
     
    And yet the average Jew feels vis-a-vis Germans nothing like the kind of genocidal hatred Muslims feel for Jews and Israelis. When Abu Nidal killed Klinghoffer, he provided the nth reason why Americans despise Palestinians. During the Bombay attacks, Pakis went out of their way to slaughter a rabbi and his entire family.
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  90. @anonymous

    … but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn’t have 5 zlotys to his name …
     
    But it’s only murder if you lose the war, otherwise it’s merely a policy. Think of the Palestinians; they’re definitely getting whom’d but by who … hmmm, I wonder?

    Let me know when the Israelis open extermination camps for Palestinians.

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    • Replies: @Lemurmaniac
    its called gaza
    , @redmudhooch
    You're only fooling yourself.
    But you know that.
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  91. @Svigor
    If you can't see the irony in Jews doing what they've done to the Palestinians, starting in 1948 and continuing up until the present, you don't have a reliable sense of irony.

    F**k the Palestinians. As Abba Eban said, “The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” Even their fellow Arabs don’t want these grifters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    "F**k my neighbor for refusing to sell that acre to me. I'm gonna build a tennis court on it anyways. As Abba Eban once said, 'He never misses and opportunity to miss an opportunity.'"
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  92. @istevefan

    If a genie could make all the Jews disappear from Palestine and return all of it to the Daar al Islam, would you want him to do it?”, most of them would have said yes. Most of them, to this day would STILL say yes.
     
    If a genie could make the US have the demographics it had in 1965, would you want him to do it?

    Yes. Not too late to start.

    America was a very pleasant place to live back then.

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  93. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish
     

    .

    You have the history the opposite way round. Jewish bankers emerged in the Early Medieval Period. E.g.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_of_Lincoln


    Later on, Italian bankers emerged in the later Medieval periods and Early Modern periods, copying/adopting the same banking methods, as Jews were expelled from the West (during the Medieval times of crisis) and their positions replaced.

    This is a story with a lot of academic papers published on it, many of which available online.

    I’m not seeing where it says Aaron of Lincoln invented double-entry bookkeeping or other “banking methods” which Italian bankers later “copied/adapted.”

    I do see various references to “Amatino Manucci”, “Luca Pacioli” and “Benedetto Cotrugli” as having been the first to have “extant records”, “describe” and “codify” the system of double-entry bookkeeping, according to the linked wikipedia article. None of them appear to have been Jewish.

    Apparently, it may also have been independently developed in east Asia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I’m not seeing where it says Aaron of Lincoln invented double-entry bookkeeping or other “banking methods” which Italian bankers later “copied/adapted.”
     
    On this method, according to archival research, double-entry bookkeeping method was used by Jewish bankers in Medieval Cairo. It's open (unsolved) academic question whether Italian bankers copied it directly from Medieval Jewish merchants, or whether they later developed it independently.

    Given the above, then an important element of Parker’s [1989] mystery has been revealed. That is, Goitein [1966a] provided direct evidence that in the eleventh and twelfth centuries Jewish bankers in Old Cairo used a bilateral form of accounts which predated the known usage of such a form in Italy. This evidence compels accounting historians to answer a research question which Parker [1989: 112} posed implicitly by declining to make a positive assertation.
     
    http://www.accountingin.com/accounting-historians-journal/volume-21-number-1/medieval-traders-as-international-change-agents
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  94. @Jack D
    He was taken to Treblinka extermination camp along with his wife (my grandmother) and two daughters (my aunts) and the rest of the Jewish population of his town and gassed.

    He was taken to Treblinka extermination camp along with his wife (my grandmother) and two daughters (my aunts) and the rest of the Jewish population of his town and gassed.

    And yet the average Jew feels vis-a-vis Germans nothing like the kind of genocidal hatred Muslims feel for Jews and Israelis. When Abu Nidal killed Klinghoffer, he provided the nth reason why Americans despise Palestinians. During the Bombay attacks, Pakis went out of their way to slaughter a rabbi and his entire family.

    Read More
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  95. @Jack D
    Let me know when the Israelis open extermination camps for Palestinians.

    its called gaza

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  96. @Jack D

    There was plenty of anti-German activity coming from the Jews.
     
    For certain values of "anti-German".

    Most German Jews were as German as could be. They were German patriots, they fought in WWI, they were the Germans who went to church on Saturday. For every German Jewish Bolshevik there were a thousand German Jewish burghers. Even the German Jewish Bolsheviks were not anti-German per se, just anti-capitalist.

    Everything you’re saying translates neatly for Muslims and arrives at the question of how you sort through people.

    Read More
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  97. @Jack D
    Let me know when the Israelis open extermination camps for Palestinians.

    You’re only fooling yourself.
    But you know that.

    Read More
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  98. @Olorin

    The original title for the blockbuster Fiddler on the Roof showstopper song “If I Were a Rich Man” was “If I Were a Rothschild.”
     
    Host, I dunno, I just don't see it.

    Besides the song isn't about being rich in the sense of generating wealth, really. It's about not having to work for a living while posing as superior, informed, holy, and in charge. It's about being a bum rather than a worker but having other people bow to you as you chew them out for no reason. It's about display over substance.


    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD]
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD] man.

    I wouldn't have to work hard.
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    If I were a biddy biddy [ROTHS],
    Yidle-diddle-didle-didle [CHILD].

    I'd build a big tall house with rooms by the dozen,
    Right in the middle of the town.
    A fine tin roof with real wooden floors below.
    There would be one long staircase just going up,
    And one even longer coming down,
    And one more leading nowhere, just for show.

    I'd fill my yard with chicks and turkeys and geese and ducks
    For the town to see and hear.
    And each loud "cheep" and "squawk" and "honk" and "quack"
    Would land like a trumpet on the ear,
    As if to say "Here lives a [ROTHSCHILD] man."

    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD]
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
    If I were a [ROTHSCHILD] man.

    I wouldn't have to work hard.
    Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
    If I were a biddy biddy [ROTHS],
    Yidle-diddle-didle-didle [CHILD].

    I see my wife, my Golde, looking like a [ROTHSCHILD] wife
    With a proper double-chin.
    Supervising meals to her heart's delight.
    I see her putting on airs and strutting like a peacock.
    Oy, what a happy mood she's in.
    Screaming at the servants, day and night.

    The most important men in town would come to fawn on me!
    They would ask me to advise them,
    Like a Solomon the Wise.
    "If you please, Reb Tevye..."
    "Pardon me, Reb Tevye..."

    Posing problems that would cross a rabbi's eyes!
    And it won't make one bit of difference if I answer right or wrong.
    When you're rich, they think you really know!

    If I were rich, I'd have the time that I lack
    To sit in the synagogue and pray.
    And maybe have a seat by the Eastern wall.
    And I'd discuss the holy books with the learned men, several hours every day.
    That would be the sweetest thing of all.
     

    I look forward to your analysis of dreams and aspirations of the 19th century American farmers based on Somewhere Over the Rainbow.

    Read More
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  99. @Jack D
    I think the question answers itself. There are plenty of other cultures that are more nepotistic than Jews but not as successful. I don't know where people get the notion that Jew are nepotistic. Maybe I have a crappy family but I've never gotten a shred of (paying) business from my family (nor my wife's, and some of them were in position to do so had they been so inclined but they weren't) but lots from (non-Jewish) friends. If I had to depend on nepotism from my family I would have starved by now.

    “I don’t know where people get the notion that Jew are nepotistic”

    Ummm, come on. You can’t name ONE possible hypothesis? So much for that high IQ that Jewish people are always touting.

    One source: research.

    You can find research on citation networks clearly showing Jews have ethnocentric tendencies to cite each other and hence promote each other.

    Also history. Here’s a little paper by a nice mensch named Cohen arguing that Jewish businesses relied heavily on ethnocentrism:

    http://americanjewisharchives.org/publications/journal/PDF/2012_64_01_00_cohen.pdf

    Also read Postville, where a liberal jew discovers that his more religious brethren are very much focused on in-group preference.

    Another source: experience. I’ve had innumerable small signals that Jewish people prefer to interact with each other. A good friend (ashkenazi polish jew) married into an English family and dropped her jewish identity as she was sick of the nepotism. She reported getting job offers for which she was unqualified, etc etc.

    Another source: religious doctrine. One cannot help but notice that Jews are treated differently in the Talmud (etc).

    and yet you can’t find one reason….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I was just telling you my own experience, which is that my family and fellow Jews were never particularly helpful to me in business. It wasn't like I would give them the secret Jew handshake and doors would open for me. Maybe this works for others but it never worked for me.

    Nor did it work in the other direction. I remember that when I first moved into my house it needed a new HVAC system. I got bids from a couple of contractors and 1 happened to be Jewish and the other guy wasn't and I ended up with the non-Jewish guy because I liked his ideas better.
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  100. Their book describes usurious moneylending as a Jewish trade, one in which Jews specialized of their own volition, in order to exploit their relative advantages over the uneducated general population. In this way, the authors maintain, the Jews brought prosperity to the countries in which they were active.

    I fail to see what prosperity did they bring to Poland(especially under Partitions). Or do they mean they brought prosperity to themselves? To Partitioners?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    They brought prosperity by providing markets for goods. Imagine an economy with all peasant farmers (which was basically what Poland was before the nobility invited in the Jews). You grow all this food but who do you sell it to? Everyone else is a farmer too. Middle man minorities buy your stuff and sell it in the cities. If your cow has a male calf that you don't need, they will buy it. After you have slaughtered a cow, they buy the hide so it can be sold to the tanners, who in turn sell it to Jewish cobblers. The cobblers make boots and sell them back to the peasants and this is better than what they have been wearing on their feet (nothing in the summer).

    Farmers always resent middle man minorities because it seems like they are getting most of the money (even today on the $2 loaf of bread the farmer gets 15 cents) but with out them there is no cash economy at all. By the 1930s, the Poles had developed their own skills to the point where they were in competition with the Jews, which created friction between the groups, but when they first arrived they were welcomed as filling an economic niche that was not being filled.

    The same thing happened in the US South. The pack peddler was once a common figure (these guys later ended up owning department stores). Some were Jewish and some were Yankees, some were Lebanese Christians. He would show up at your farm and sell you stuff that you couldn't make yourself - needles and thread and buttons and ribbon and spices, little toy for the kids, etc. (The goods had to be light enough to be literally carried on the peddler's back). The farm housewife was glad when these guys showed up - you got stuff that you needed and it lessened the boredom and isolation of farm life. People have spoken about the lack of anti-Semitism in the old South and this was the reason - Jews had their own ecological niche which was not in competition with the locals.
    , @J.Ross
    Poland before partition was extremely prosperous but incredibly politically weak, thanks to its anti-nationalist ruling class, which brought in Jew efficiency experts and plantation managers to serve them and not "the nation in general." In the Prussian and Austrian partitions they made similar use of the Jews, but infamously the Russians wanted no part of them (this is the origin of "the pale of settlement").
    A nation reaching from sea to shining sea, with an international standard-settingly good military, but misruled by an incredibly destructive political order, distracted by its own wealth, administered by a nearly coherent and consistently alien group, surrounded by enemies, babbling about democracy and Russian agents. And then the enemies smelled blood and it was over without a fight.
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  101. @Lex

    Their book describes usurious moneylending as a Jewish trade, one in which Jews specialized of their own volition, in order to exploit their relative advantages over the uneducated general population. In this way, the authors maintain, the Jews brought prosperity to the countries in which they were active.
     
    I fail to see what prosperity did they bring to Poland(especially under Partitions). Or do they mean they brought prosperity to themselves? To Partitioners?

    They brought prosperity by providing markets for goods. Imagine an economy with all peasant farmers (which was basically what Poland was before the nobility invited in the Jews). You grow all this food but who do you sell it to? Everyone else is a farmer too. Middle man minorities buy your stuff and sell it in the cities. If your cow has a male calf that you don’t need, they will buy it. After you have slaughtered a cow, they buy the hide so it can be sold to the tanners, who in turn sell it to Jewish cobblers. The cobblers make boots and sell them back to the peasants and this is better than what they have been wearing on their feet (nothing in the summer).

    Farmers always resent middle man minorities because it seems like they are getting most of the money (even today on the $2 loaf of bread the farmer gets 15 cents) but with out them there is no cash economy at all. By the 1930s, the Poles had developed their own skills to the point where they were in competition with the Jews, which created friction between the groups, but when they first arrived they were welcomed as filling an economic niche that was not being filled.

    The same thing happened in the US South. The pack peddler was once a common figure (these guys later ended up owning department stores). Some were Jewish and some were Yankees, some were Lebanese Christians. He would show up at your farm and sell you stuff that you couldn’t make yourself – needles and thread and buttons and ribbon and spices, little toy for the kids, etc. (The goods had to be light enough to be literally carried on the peddler’s back). The farm housewife was glad when these guys showed up – you got stuff that you needed and it lessened the boredom and isolation of farm life. People have spoken about the lack of anti-Semitism in the old South and this was the reason – Jews had their own ecological niche which was not in competition with the locals.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Lex
    Without Jews Poles themselves would have to fill the role of middlemen which would be far better for society(as seen in countries that expelled Jews) than letting alien endogamous and hostile group of people feed of them(as can be seen by their skyrocketing numbers). Without Jewish presence structure of Polish society would be much more like in the West, much healthier. Jews were a tool for nobility to keep rest of the nation from getting uppity when it was what Poland needed the most.

    As you can read in Jan Słomka's memoir Jews found most interest not in cobbling but peddling alcohol and taking over farms by abusing peasants' lack of education. It only ended after Polish nationalists started teaching peasants basics of economics which Jews to this day seem unable to forgive.

    , @Steve Sailer
    A couple of hundred years ago, there were "Yankee peddlers" in the South:

    http://www.newenglandhistoricalsociety.com/portrait-of-a-connecticut-yankee-peddler/

    My vague impression is that Yankee peddlers really got on the nerves of Southerners, while Jewish peddlers were more popular.

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  102. @jbwilson24
    "I don’t know where people get the notion that Jew are nepotistic"

    Ummm, come on. You can't name ONE possible hypothesis? So much for that high IQ that Jewish people are always touting.

    One source: research.

    You can find research on citation networks clearly showing Jews have ethnocentric tendencies to cite each other and hence promote each other.

    Also history. Here's a little paper by a nice mensch named Cohen arguing that Jewish businesses relied heavily on ethnocentrism:

    http://americanjewisharchives.org/publications/journal/PDF/2012_64_01_00_cohen.pdf

    Also read Postville, where a liberal jew discovers that his more religious brethren are very much focused on in-group preference.

    Another source: experience. I've had innumerable small signals that Jewish people prefer to interact with each other. A good friend (ashkenazi polish jew) married into an English family and dropped her jewish identity as she was sick of the nepotism. She reported getting job offers for which she was unqualified, etc etc.

    Another source: religious doctrine. One cannot help but notice that Jews are treated differently in the Talmud (etc).

    and yet you can't find one reason....

    I was just telling you my own experience, which is that my family and fellow Jews were never particularly helpful to me in business. It wasn’t like I would give them the secret Jew handshake and doors would open for me. Maybe this works for others but it never worked for me.

    Nor did it work in the other direction. I remember that when I first moved into my house it needed a new HVAC system. I got bids from a couple of contractors and 1 happened to be Jewish and the other guy wasn’t and I ended up with the non-Jewish guy because I liked his ideas better.

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  103. @anon
    I'm not seeing where it says Aaron of Lincoln invented double-entry bookkeeping or other "banking methods" which Italian bankers later "copied/adapted."

    I do see various references to "Amatino Manucci", "Luca Pacioli" and "Benedetto Cotrugli" as having been the first to have "extant records", "describe" and "codify" the system of double-entry bookkeeping, according to the linked wikipedia article. None of them appear to have been Jewish.

    Apparently, it may also have been independently developed in east Asia.

    I’m not seeing where it says Aaron of Lincoln invented double-entry bookkeeping or other “banking methods” which Italian bankers later “copied/adapted.”

    On this method, according to archival research, double-entry bookkeeping method was used by Jewish bankers in Medieval Cairo. It’s open (unsolved) academic question whether Italian bankers copied it directly from Medieval Jewish merchants, or whether they later developed it independently.

    Given the above, then an important element of Parker’s [1989] mystery has been revealed. That is, Goitein [1966a] provided direct evidence that in the eleventh and twelfth centuries Jewish bankers in Old Cairo used a bilateral form of accounts which predated the known usage of such a form in Italy. This evidence compels accounting historians to answer a research question which Parker [1989: 112} posed implicitly by declining to make a positive assertation.

    http://www.accountingin.com/accounting-historians-journal/volume-21-number-1/medieval-traders-as-international-change-agents

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  104. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    As others have pointed out, this is true (if it is true at all) in only a quite narrow way. The children of people “good at capitalism” become communists all the time.

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  105. @Anonymous
    Evil Neocon (whisky) is such a damn liar.

    Capitalism dates from antiquity. As far back as Babylon at least. Jesus whipped the money changers in the Temple. The ancient world had the tradition of debt jubilees because the world was filled with LOANS.

    LOANS are the lifeblood of capitalism and da joos were the lenders in European capitals.

    Nearly all of the Euro empires were built on Jewish lending.

    It’s a good point. Money-lending (i.e. finance capitalism) dates from antiquity.

    What is more recent are joint stock companies and capital lending (i.e. lending to businesses for the purpose of productive investment).

    Lending-for-consumption/gambling/war is ancient.

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  106. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    this

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  107. @anon
    "Actually I think a large part of it has been Western European lack of clannishness."

    That's the question: Are Jews successful primarily due to their meritocratic brains and values, or due to white Christian tolerance of their highly nepotistic behavior?

    That’s the wrong question.

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  108. @istevefan
    What is happening with US conservatives on this site and elsewhere is that they are holding Israel to the same standards they believe American Jews in general, and Israeli firsters in particular, are holding our nation.

    I don't think many conservatives dislike Israel. In fact many admire Israel, but are fed up with American Jews and pro-Israelis in the US being in the forefront to push demographic change onto our nation.

    Every time someone like Senator Schumer opens up on immigration on one day, and for the need to ensure Israel remains a Jewish state on another, it just creates more anger that did not have to be. He is preaching diversity and the multicult to us, but seemingly wants an ethnostate for Israel. Which means he knows that diversity and the multicult are BS. But he is still pushing that poison on us anyway and then demands we support his pet project in the mid-east.

    Every time a so called conservative like David Brooks or Jennifer Rubin writes an op-ed that US whites should be replaced while arguing the Israel must remain a Jewish state, it just creates more anger that did not have to be.

    And as I implied, it is not just Jewish Americans. We all are familiar with Senators McCain and Lindsey Graham who seem hellbent on making us part of Latin America. But those two senators support Israel with as much vigor as Sheldon Adelson. They are just as bad if not worse.

    Rather then being upset with conservatives whom you believe are being too hard on Israel, maybe you and others should put pressure on the Israel supporters in the US, from Schumer to Graham, and tell them to lay off with the population replacement. I think Israel often uses the term 'existential threat'. Well what is going on with the demographic changes to America is regarded by us as an 'existential threat' to our nation. So I don't think it would be hard for Israelis to understand where we are coming from.

    Well said.

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  109. @Jack D

    There was plenty of anti-German activity coming from the Jews.
     
    For certain values of "anti-German".

    Most German Jews were as German as could be. They were German patriots, they fought in WWI, they were the Germans who went to church on Saturday. For every German Jewish Bolshevik there were a thousand German Jewish burghers. Even the German Jewish Bolsheviks were not anti-German per se, just anti-capitalist.

    And there were people like this guy: Magnus Hirschfeld

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  110. @Lex

    Their book describes usurious moneylending as a Jewish trade, one in which Jews specialized of their own volition, in order to exploit their relative advantages over the uneducated general population. In this way, the authors maintain, the Jews brought prosperity to the countries in which they were active.
     
    I fail to see what prosperity did they bring to Poland(especially under Partitions). Or do they mean they brought prosperity to themselves? To Partitioners?

    Poland before partition was extremely prosperous but incredibly politically weak, thanks to its anti-nationalist ruling class, which brought in Jew efficiency experts and plantation managers to serve them and not “the nation in general.” In the Prussian and Austrian partitions they made similar use of the Jews, but infamously the Russians wanted no part of them (this is the origin of “the pale of settlement”).
    A nation reaching from sea to shining sea, with an international standard-settingly good military, but misruled by an incredibly destructive political order, distracted by its own wealth, administered by a nearly coherent and consistently alien group, surrounded by enemies, babbling about democracy and Russian agents. And then the enemies smelled blood and it was over without a fight.

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  111. @Jack D
    Jewish Rothschilds were about as common as American Rockefellers - not very. This, to me is the great irony of the Holocaust - Hitler aimed his wrath at international bankers and Bolshevik revolutionaries but ended up murdering guys like my grandfather who didn't have 5 zlotys to his name and knew nothing of Marx (neither Karl nor Groucho). It would be like going after Carlos Slim and Carlos the Jackal but instead killing a million versions of Carlos the guy who cuts your lawn.

    they were good at capitalism. So, get rid of.... capitalism
     
    That makes no sense. Zero. Jews who were good at capitalism didn't become Communists. The minority who became Communists were guys like Lenin and Stalin (and Trotsky) - people with enough education to understand that they were smarter than the people who were then in charge (or thought they were) but who thought that were not being rewarded by that system in the manner that they deserved (and that the masses were being screwed even more). University students, failed poets, philosophers, dreamers, NOT good at capitalism. The masses themselves (Jewish and non-Jewish) were not educated enough to have a clue, nor ideological enough to think that some German guy wrote a book with the solution to their problems.

    Jews who were good at capitalism didn’t become Communists.

    (((Olof Aschberg))), “the red banker”.

    Olof Aschberg (22 July 1877 – 21 April 1960) was a Swedish banker and businessman. Aschberg was a leftist sympathizer and helped finance the Bolsheviks in Russia. In gratitude, the Bolshevik government allowed Aschberg to do business with Soviet Union during the 1920s. In 1922, Aschberg founded Roskombank, the first Soviet international bank.[1]

    Aschberg had already gained the Soviet leaders’ esteem by being one of the main connections in the early years after 1917 in evading the international boycott on gold robbed by the Bolsheviks, which he offered on the Stockholm market after having the bullions melted down and given new markings.[4]
    (etc)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Aschberg

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  112. @Jim Don Bob
    F**k the Palestinians. As Abba Eban said, "The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Even their fellow Arabs don't want these grifters.

    “F**k my neighbor for refusing to sell that acre to me. I’m gonna build a tennis court on it anyways. As Abba Eban once said, ‘He never misses and opportunity to miss an opportunity.’”

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  113. @Jack D
    They brought prosperity by providing markets for goods. Imagine an economy with all peasant farmers (which was basically what Poland was before the nobility invited in the Jews). You grow all this food but who do you sell it to? Everyone else is a farmer too. Middle man minorities buy your stuff and sell it in the cities. If your cow has a male calf that you don't need, they will buy it. After you have slaughtered a cow, they buy the hide so it can be sold to the tanners, who in turn sell it to Jewish cobblers. The cobblers make boots and sell them back to the peasants and this is better than what they have been wearing on their feet (nothing in the summer).

    Farmers always resent middle man minorities because it seems like they are getting most of the money (even today on the $2 loaf of bread the farmer gets 15 cents) but with out them there is no cash economy at all. By the 1930s, the Poles had developed their own skills to the point where they were in competition with the Jews, which created friction between the groups, but when they first arrived they were welcomed as filling an economic niche that was not being filled.

    The same thing happened in the US South. The pack peddler was once a common figure (these guys later ended up owning department stores). Some were Jewish and some were Yankees, some were Lebanese Christians. He would show up at your farm and sell you stuff that you couldn't make yourself - needles and thread and buttons and ribbon and spices, little toy for the kids, etc. (The goods had to be light enough to be literally carried on the peddler's back). The farm housewife was glad when these guys showed up - you got stuff that you needed and it lessened the boredom and isolation of farm life. People have spoken about the lack of anti-Semitism in the old South and this was the reason - Jews had their own ecological niche which was not in competition with the locals.

    Without Jews Poles themselves would have to fill the role of middlemen which would be far better for society(as seen in countries that expelled Jews) than letting alien endogamous and hostile group of people feed of them(as can be seen by their skyrocketing numbers). Without Jewish presence structure of Polish society would be much more like in the West, much healthier. Jews were a tool for nobility to keep rest of the nation from getting uppity when it was what Poland needed the most.

    As you can read in Jan Słomka’s memoir Jews found most interest not in cobbling but peddling alcohol and taking over farms by abusing peasants’ lack of education. It only ended after Polish nationalists started teaching peasants basics of economics which Jews to this day seem unable to forgive.

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  114. @Whiskey
    Whole thing is a load of crap. Modern Capitalism, including critically double entry book keeping and letters of credit and insurance without which it would be impossible, were invented by the Italian City State bankers particularly in Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Venice, and Florence. All of these were pioneers in Capitalism and created the modern banking structure that underpins Capitalism.

    Jews came late to the party, were along for the ride, and were at best a sideshow to the story of modern capitalism which started in Northern Italy, migrated to the Netherlands and England and Germany, and found its modern expression in 18th Century French Mercantilism or 18th Century English trading houses. In between, Jews were not setting up massive trading outposts in the Eastern Med like Venice, with armed galleys to protect trade routes, nor exploring the African continent like the Portugese to find a way around the Muslim dominated Med to Asia, nor setting up vast trading empires like the English and Dutch, nor setting up vast extractive empires like the Spanish.

    TLDR: it was Cosimo Medici not Rothschild who was the founder of modern banking and capitalism.

    Yes, Italians invented modern double entry banking.

    It was 700 unlicensed Sephardic Jews in Amesterdam who set up the modern “market” of gets, puts and the like. They also engaged in scams, like waiting for ships to come in, to then maneuver the market.

    Jews, due to losing their East-West mechanism were desperate for a new money making scheme for usury on money. The East-West Mechanism was taking rents on the exchange rate between gold and silver. This overland middle east caravan mechanism was broken when Vasco de-Gama discovered the Southern Route. This is why Portugal got rich so quick, as they took over the “secret” Jewish overland caravan scheme. Shipping around horn of Africa destroyed donkey caravaneers scheme, of whom were almost entirely Jewish. Both Mecca and Medina were on the Caravan routes, and one can see echoes in Mohammed’s antipathy toward Jews based on Jewish control of these cities.

    After east/west mechanism fell to Portugal, she unloaded spices and metal money in Amsterdam, yet another draw for Sephardics and later Ashkenazi. This can be seen in population statistics of Jews moving to the region. Jews used their stock market capital gains to print Bibles and maneuver for their being seen as “special people.” Any religion that promotes old testament “Torah” usually has Jewish money somewhere as antecedent. Protestantism is implicated here. The modern variant of this Jewish scheme is Scofield Bible and Zionist Christianity.

    Jews learned to attach themselves to a shipping power in Holland, and aimed their daggers at England, by getting “Royals” into debts.

    By 1694, with advent of Bank of England, Jews had finally managed to host another country. A lot of “Dutch Jews” did not even deliver the Gold they said they would to buy these new bank-shares. Typical.

    Double Entry ledgers were used by BOE to hypothecate NEW CREDIT at this point in history. The idea was to have a nations’s population willingly put themselves in debt, and said debt instrument holders were the bank. This is the important distinction, a double entry ledger can be used to manage existing money, or it can be used to CREATE new bank credit.

    It is not the ledger, it is the Con behind the ledger.

    With regards to Venice, they had a STATE BANK, which was funded early on by the rich. The basis for their credit was existing money (formerly from Rich) that circulated on the ledger in subsequent generations. Venice had honest money early on in her history. In other words, it wasn’t bank credit in Venice but instead already existing money. Gold was always recalled to Venice due to her ability to export goods. (It was later that Venice ‘went bad” and it exactly correlates in time to Jewish immigration.)

    Usury isn’t explicitly a Jewish phenomenon, but Jews have weaponized it. Italians used forward contracts to get around usury injunctions. The Catholic fuggers of Germany were usurers, going against the Church.

    Double entry ledger was taken up by Jews as a useful tool, but Usury as a method transcends ledger mechanics.

    A homogeneous population is less likely to prey on its own cousins and brothers. Highly selected K type Jews work as an in-group to host populations, acting as super-predators. Jews acted as malefactors in ancient history on Caravan routes, and today is no different.

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  115. @Jack D
    They brought prosperity by providing markets for goods. Imagine an economy with all peasant farmers (which was basically what Poland was before the nobility invited in the Jews). You grow all this food but who do you sell it to? Everyone else is a farmer too. Middle man minorities buy your stuff and sell it in the cities. If your cow has a male calf that you don't need, they will buy it. After you have slaughtered a cow, they buy the hide so it can be sold to the tanners, who in turn sell it to Jewish cobblers. The cobblers make boots and sell them back to the peasants and this is better than what they have been wearing on their feet (nothing in the summer).

    Farmers always resent middle man minorities because it seems like they are getting most of the money (even today on the $2 loaf of bread the farmer gets 15 cents) but with out them there is no cash economy at all. By the 1930s, the Poles had developed their own skills to the point where they were in competition with the Jews, which created friction between the groups, but when they first arrived they were welcomed as filling an economic niche that was not being filled.

    The same thing happened in the US South. The pack peddler was once a common figure (these guys later ended up owning department stores). Some were Jewish and some were Yankees, some were Lebanese Christians. He would show up at your farm and sell you stuff that you couldn't make yourself - needles and thread and buttons and ribbon and spices, little toy for the kids, etc. (The goods had to be light enough to be literally carried on the peddler's back). The farm housewife was glad when these guys showed up - you got stuff that you needed and it lessened the boredom and isolation of farm life. People have spoken about the lack of anti-Semitism in the old South and this was the reason - Jews had their own ecological niche which was not in competition with the locals.

    A couple of hundred years ago, there were “Yankee peddlers” in the South:

    http://www.newenglandhistoricalsociety.com/portrait-of-a-connecticut-yankee-peddler/

    My vague impression is that Yankee peddlers really got on the nerves of Southerners, while Jewish peddlers were more popular.

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  116. President Donald Trump’s remark to Jewish leaders during the election campaign, “You’re not going to support me, because I don’t want your money.”

    Typical scurrilous insinuation that such a quote means Trump is anti-Semitic. Trump said, “I don’t want your money” to all rich donors. He is beholden to no one other than the voters.

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