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GW Bush: Immigrants Should Pick Our Own Damn Cotton
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From the Associated Press:

ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Former President George W. Bush said on Thursday that … “Americans don’t want to pick cotton at 105 degrees (Fahrenheit), but there are people who want put food on their family’s tables and are willing to do that. We ought to say thank you and welcome them.”

What could possibly go wrong?

Anyway, haven’t there been cotton-picking machines since 1943? Do we really need all that many cotton-pickers?

After all, that was the starting point of Nicholas Lemann’s 1991 bestseller “The Great Migration” about how the introduction of a mechanical harvester to the cotton fields during the early 1940s drove five million Southern blacks north to cities like Detroit.

Update: Virginia Postrel has a timely new piece out on the history:

Lessons From a Slow-Motion Robot Takeover

Cotton harvesting is now dominated by machines. But it took decades to happen.
By Virginia Postrel
February 9, 2018, 7:00 AM PST

 
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  1. Yan Shen says:

    Didn’t racist whites basically force black slaves to pick cotton on plantations for a number of decades? Imagine if uh John Derbyshire had been around back in those days endlessly telling everyone how on average blacks were more violent and less intelligent relative to members of other ethnic groups, but that white Americans should still be civic minded and treat African Americans as fellow citizens and human beings.

    I think this would make a great plot for a Hollywood movie. While 2018 PC America seems to despise the message the Derb brings to the table, when he travels back in time a couple hundred years, John Derbyshire becomes one of the most progressive and woke white Americans of his era and is forever remembered by history as a uh Good White. By going back and partially negating America’s Original Sin, he also spares future generations of the country from an eternity of PC and black worship.

    The other movie idea I’ve thrown out before involves an alien invasion uniting John Derbyshire and his black counterpart Ta Nehisi Coates.

    (Derbyshire to Coates): “I never realized that when they cut you, you bleed too just like me.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    WTF does Derb have to do with this? Are you posting to the thread you intended?
    , @ThreeCranes
    Why, when only 1.4% of Americans owned slaves (according to the 1860 U.S. census) is slavery "America’s Original Sin" as you put it?
    , @AnotherDad
    Yan, we all get it now. You "hate, hate, hate" that Derb is banging one of your tribe's women. That feeling is completely natural. However, you're just going to have to deal with it since you or your ancestors felt a white nation was a better place than your native land. If it's really bugging you every waking moment--as seems to be the case--your should just go back.

    However, your feelings about Derb are not actually relevant to most of Steve's posts--including this one. I'd suggest coming up with a handy acronym for your feelings--say DECSPMO--and whenever those feelings are to overpowering to contain, just send out that comment. You'll save yourself and the rest of us cycles and we'll all still be able to empathize with your pain.
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  2. Dr. Doom says:

    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That’s a lack of acumen right there folks, I don’t care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that’s not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    Read More
    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    After this he should go back to painting.

    Maybe he ran out of dead and maimed veterans his lies helped create so has no more sources of inspriation.

    , @Lugash
    Al Gore was criticized from the left and right for criticizing American foreign policy in Saudi Arabia in 2006. It's now apparently OK to criticize domestic policy and Americans as well.

    https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/gores-supreme-disloyalty-in-saudi-arabia/
    , @Pat Boyle
    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver's compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn't exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    If we are just about to have on the market all these self driving cars that will evict us from the driver's seat of the family car, surely a self driving tractor can't be too tricky. A self driving automobile requires a lot of sensors and safety equipment. The public roads are laid out in an almost random fashion. Roads go up, roads go down and right and left and all sorts of angles in between.

    But a typical farmer's field is flat and regular. You can plot out the tractor's path ahead of time. You could plant little signal devices in the soil that would guide the tractor or you could have the tractor receive coordinates from a geosynchronous satellite overhead - or any of several other ways. I have a cheap little navigation gizmo in my car that displays the road ahead and computes alternate routes. It has a screen which shows an animation of the route ahead.

    Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.

    , @International Jew
    He's an idiot, yeah, but compared to Trump he's Adlai Stevenson.
    , @Realist
    "Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?"

    The stupidity of this dumb bastard knows no bounds.
    , @Twodees Partain
    Steve's title was great, "GW Bush: Immigrants should pick our own damn cotton". It's exactly the way W used to speechify. At least now W has moved on from "put food on my family".
    , @Joe Sweet
    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    Hitler...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Adolf_Hitler_-_Wien_Oper.jpg/400px-Adolf_Hitler_-_Wien_Oper.jpg

    vs

    Bush...

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyhuzFdgB8c5h9cMJCFE3aVAYmISnA1RYwC9SQ46FMzDM2Z1IC

    , @SMK
    Imagine, this genuinely "white-privileged," Yale-educated ignoramus and simpleton -who doesn't even know that cotton-picking was mechanized before he was born- was President of the U.S. for 8-years. Al Gore and John Kerry would have been just as bad or even worse on race and immigration, of course, but would they have invaded and occupied Afghanistan. And if so, would they have invaded and occupied Iraq? Probably not -so, on the whole, they would have been less awful than Bush II.
    , @cynthia curran
    Yes, and Texas has been the center of cheap labor Republicanism for years but the right loves Texas. Granted, Abbott is much better governor on the illegal immigrant issue than either Bush or Perry but Arizona a more purplish state took action on the issue better than Texas and I still read a big Briebart praise for Texas, maybe to many on the right no income tax is more important than putting laws on the books that make it harder for Joe Blow to hire illegal immigrants. Remember the Bullshit against e-verify by right wing hero Ron Paul.
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  3. Shouldn’t increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato

    Shouldn’t increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?
     
    No, it's a reason for more productivity in general.

    Of course, people in the eliminated jobs have to move up the skill ladder or go into jobs that cannot be automated. That happens at a slower pace than automation.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie.
     
    Very inside-the-box thinking. Definitely a problem in the nation-wide controlling one-state nepo-capitalistic society. However, one could imagine the emergence of smaller-scale communities that manage the "no-jobs problem" (a pseudo-problem as it tacitly assumes a certain environment that is in no case necessary) and the exchange of goods and the accumulation of wealth quite well without transforming into hellhole on state dripfeed.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.
     
    A resource problem, that's something else.
    , @ic1000
    > Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance?

    Cultural Marxists rather than communists. Privileged, entitled, and often wealthy Cultural Marxists. Their preferred policies will continue to be great for them, their allies, and their offspring.

    Not suggesting that it ends well, but per Steve, one of today’s greatest trends is Not Remembering.
    , @Seamus Padraig
    Our own Christian 'allies' have, in recent memory, been part of the problem. They have consistently lobbied the government to make sure that our foreign aid to third world countries does not include any funds for abortion or birth control.

    Like so many other issues, this one has become a culture-war battle ground, fought over by hardcore ideologues who really don't give a flying flip about anything other than their narrow little agendas. On the one extreme, you have the hairy-legged feminist types who believe that abortion and birth control are always right, and that they should be provided free of charge by the government and preached in kindergarden. On the other extreme, you have some hair-brained Christians who think that abortion and birth control are always wrong, and that the government should ban them and that your doctor should be forbidden even to mention them to his patients.

    Meanwhile, who's looking out for the rest of us?
    , @Bleuteaux
    The globalists want unlimited consumers and next to zero workers.
    , @Anonymous
    No, it's a misconception that technology reduces the demand for people. It's based on the incorrect assumption of a static system. Technology increases the demand for people overall. If you want fewer people, you need less technology, not more.
    , @notanon

    Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance?
     
    It's a problem inherent in capitalism. For any individual business driving down wages leads to increased profits but if they all do it then no one has any spending money leading to economic stagnation - which leads to business wanting more cheap labor to counter the stagnation which leads to more stagnation etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

    We're in this downward spiral now and have been since the banking mafia fully corrupted the media-political class.

    Capitalism requires a political class who recognize this inherent logic and actively seeks to prevent it.
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  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    I would be interested to know.
    Surely, no commercial cotton planter – the only cotton growers worth their salt – could not be economically competitive using hand picking. I’m not talking about small ‘hobbyists’ etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Even somebody running a boutique cotton farm would plant it in accordance with automated pickers and contract with somebody to pick it rather than do it by hand.
    , @Big Bill
    No one picks cotton by hand in the USA. No one. All cotton picking (and planting, and cultivating and spraying) is done by large self-propelled machines.
    , @Daniel H
    >>Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    No. Bush is a man of profound ignorance and stupidity. Nobody has used their cotton-pickin' hands since the early 50s. That the man could grow up in the South, come of age, become president and not understand this........well, I don't know what to say.
    , @CAL2
    No there isn't. There was an article just last week about a cotton grower in Texas who switched to automation basically because immigration enforcement was taking its toll on his workforce. Instead of hiring a bunch of temp hands to harvest cotton he now does it with two of his full time staff.
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  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.

    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    I imagine the families that own the farms can do this on their own. If they need field hands to do it, they can just hire Americans at whatever wage it takes to get them.

    Nobody needs illegals and 1% of our exports is peanuts compared to industries like medical products which don't have any illegal alien workers (although they do sometimes use H-1Bs which should be gotten rid of as well)
    , @Big Bill
    My goodness! When did the federal government ban recruitment/employment of workers in the cotton industry? I need to get in touch with John Deere, Case Corporation, etc. and tell them to cease and desist building cotton harvesters/planters/sprayers immediately!

    Does this recruitment ban apply to cotton harvester dealerships? Used cotton harvester dealers? Cotton harvester mechanics? Can I be jailed for selling diesel to cotton farmers if I know it is going to be used to run cotton harvesters? Please tell us. Inquiring minds want to know.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers."

    Nothing's stopping them. If they can't find workers at their pay rates, pay more. That's how markets should and do work.
    , @anon
    Cotton is King!
    , @Mr. Anon

    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.
     
    Is there any evidence that they don't have enough workers now?
    , @Anonymous
    So it's an industry that hires very few Americans, and it's basically a low tech, low value added agriculture operation. Helping it get more workers is just corporate welfare and subsidies to the few wealthy people that own and run it.
    , @notanon

    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.
     
    It's 1% of US exports because the banking mafia looted the US manufacturing base and moved it offshore.
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  6. By far the stupidest thing I’ve done as an adult was voting for George W. Bush. Al Gore represented the Bill Clinton moderate side of the Democratic Party, which was actually pretty good for the country. (The problem with Clinton was he couldn’t keep his pants on and he never met a donor he wouldn’t accept money from.)

    A Gore presidency would have prevented the insanity of W’s war in Iraq. And it would have kept moderates from going extinct in the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party of 2018 is literally and proudly anti-American and is pulling half the country in that direction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Redman
    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.
    , @Thea
    I'm not sure Gore would have had the backbone to stand down the warmongers.
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  7. Dubya was an idiot when he was in office and he’s gotten worse. Pick cotton when it’s 105 degrees. Is he thinking about post-Civil War Alabama? Slaves out in the fields? Huh? Put food on your family’s tables. What does that even mean? What galaxy does this moron inhabit? Yes it’s a sad state of affairs when a dope like this can make it as far as the oval office.

    He is several bricks short of a load.

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  8. Roger says: • Website

    That is why we had the slave trade, 250 years ago. I hope Bush keeps reminding everyone.

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  9. Perhaps someone should let the UAE know that cotton farming uses a *lot* of water.

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  10. If there is any cotton left to be hand-picked, we should save that work for war criminals.

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    • Agree: TomSchmidt
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  11. Read More
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  12. DJF says:

    Its noticeable that cotton picking machines did not become economic until late WW2 and into the fifties when labor had become scarce and more expensive. Open borders would have stopped that.

    Without that shortage of labor people like Bush would still be on their veranda sipping their mint jubilee and listing to the dark people sing “Pick a Bale of Cotton”

    I wonder what songs the slaves of Abu Dhabi sing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Minor point of order: Busb, ¡Jeb!, et al. are carpetbaggers with no meaningful roots or connection to the southern states, they'd be smoking pipes in a manse in New England, perhaps, or playing at croquet.
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  13. George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn’t add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn’t know “that much about the company” and “should do something else. ”

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.

    It’s amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world’s most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he’s not doing any real work.

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn’t take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    Maybe this reflects the increasing powerlessness of the President versus a gigantic bureaucracy, incredibly complex globalized economy, rapid technological change and the rise of myriad centers of power among lobbying and special interest groups ranging from the NRA to the SPLC to AIPAC and even the AARP. Maybe the best thing a President can really aspire to be is a symbol to his supporters.
    , @Rotten
    His job was to rubber stamp thé décisions or management, and to make a téléphoné call to thé right person in the government if that became necessary for the company.

    It sounds like he did his job well.
    , @George
    but didn’t add value to the group

    W was probably unable to use corrupt means to get Carlyle business, as a D was in office. At the same time being a lazy rich kid he probably did not need the money. After 3 yrs of President O they noticed that a D was going to be in office, perhaps for 13 more years (including 8 for Hillary), or maybe just a different type of R, so they dumped W. Mitt, McCain and Ws brother dropped the ball not W, who never needed the job anyway.

    The David Rubenstein Show: David Petraeus
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-04-26/the-david-rubenstein-show-david-petraeus-video

    What's Petraeus doing? KKR. What's he doing for KKR?

    What type of ammunition was Petraeus wounded by, AK or AR? Answer AR. Since most US injuries were not combat related Petraeus really does have much in common with the troops.

    Which sport did Petraeus play in college? Football or Soccer? Answer Soccer. I think the soccer thing is significant, Petraeus has something in common with the typical D, and likely many of the fancier Rs these days, Congress person and staff. One division within the deep government might be NFL vs FIFA.
    , @whorefinder
    Fake story.

    Corporate boards don't do any real work. Most members are appointed for show, to have a big name to pay so that if the big name's guys oppose the company the big name can talk them down. Many people are on multiple corporate boards as it's just a huge bribe scam. W.'s appointment was no different.

    So this sounds like Rubenstein just using W's departure as an excuse to rip on him.
    , @njguy73

    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.
     
    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he'd be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.
    , @Art Deco
    You mean this David Rubenstein?

    http://www.bushcenter.org/people/david-rubenstein.html



    The particular story your peddling appears to have come from a muckraker magazine journalist named Dan Briody. The problem with muckrakers is that if you've got no scandal, you've got no book.
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  14. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The first Briton

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Is that Gaddafi?
    , @tyrone
    no,no,no, that's the LAST briton!
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  15. I’d estimate a 130-140 IQ. Maybe higher.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Last October, in my VDARE.com article “This Just In: Kerry’s IQ Likely Lower than Bush’s!” I showed that Kerry’s score on the Officer Qualification Test he took when he joined the Navy was no better and probably slightly worse than the score George W. Bush made when he took the Air Force’s equivalent test.

    I estimated that on the IQ test-like sections of the military aptitude tests that Bush scored somewhere around the equivalent of a 125 IQ (which is in line with his 1206 SAT score [under the harder pre-1995 scoring system]) while Kerry scored around the equivalent of a 120 IQ.
     
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/my-article-on-john-f-kerrys-iq/
    , @Anonymous
    What did he say in that interview to lead you to think he'd score 130-140 on an IQ test?
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  16. I accuse George W. Bush of using chain-migration & H1-B visas and for letting ex-British Indians openly conspire in taking over THE INTERNETS.

    George W. Bush is nothing but a dyslexic war criminal. Shrub was so dense he couldn’t even teach Sammy Sosa the right way to inject anabolic steroids or how to properly cork a baseball bat!

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  17. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It’s back to the future time, courtesy of George W. Bush, the man who gave you the Iraq War, Obama and Global Economic Meltdown.

    Yes, here’s an idea, let’s send recruiting agents to west Africa, the Libyan coast, Lagos, etc etc to offer ‘any willing hands with a strong back’ the chance to labour under a hot sun for Massa in de big house.
    Such a great, wonderful, Economist idea. Winners all round! What could *possibly* go wrong?

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  18. El Dato says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Shouldn't increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    Shouldn’t increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    No, it’s a reason for more productivity in general.

    Of course, people in the eliminated jobs have to move up the skill ladder or go into jobs that cannot be automated. That happens at a slower pace than automation.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie.

    Very inside-the-box thinking. Definitely a problem in the nation-wide controlling one-state nepo-capitalistic society. However, one could imagine the emergence of smaller-scale communities that manage the “no-jobs problem” (a pseudo-problem as it tacitly assumes a certain environment that is in no case necessary) and the exchange of goods and the accumulation of wealth quite well without transforming into hellhole on state dripfeed.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    A resource problem, that’s something else.

    Read More
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  19. dr kill says:

    This Greenwald guy is correct much more often recently, isn’t he?

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  20. El Dato says:

    OT: Dismissed for doubting. Oh, and anti-semitism. Better get into the mood and sing about Russian Meddling, eh?

    http://www.jpost.com/International/Facebook-controversey-from-popular-French-Muslim-singer-540977

    In a deeply divided nation that is still reeling from a toxic presidential election last spring [what?], as well as jihadist and racist attacks, Mennel Ibtissem’s performances offered a rare vision of hope.

    The blue-eyed Muslim woman sang Arabic and French-language renditions of Leonard Cohen’s Hallelujah on national television in France while wearing a head cover. She was a favorite on the French edition of The Voice talent and reality show, seeming to embody the values of coexistence and tolerance in a country with a notorious integration problem.

    But in a repeat of recent scandals involving ambassadors for diversity in Europe, Ibtissem’s social media activity showed a different side of her — one that spread pro-Palestinian propaganda, conspiracy theories and accusations that the French state, not jihadists, is responsible for terrorism.

    It was that last remark, posted by the 23-year-old singer on social media in 2016, that prompted the TF1 television network to consider disqualifying Ibtissem from the show.

    “We cannot keep on the show a person who made illegal statements,“ a network spokesman told television host and journalist Jean-Marc Morandini on Tuesday.

    https://www.rt.com/news/418442-ibtissem-voice-quit-terrorism/

    Mennel Ibtissem was a popular contestant on the show. However, she came under pressure to leave the competition after tweets were uncovered in which she appeared to question the official narrative of the 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris and the 2016 Bastille Day attack in Nice.

    “Here we go, it’s become a routine, an attack a week, and, as usual, the ‘terrorist’ takes his ID with him,” Ibtissem wrote after the Nice truck attack, Nice-Matin reported. “It’s true that when you’re plotting something nasty you never forget to take your papers with you.” [That could be used in a Naked Gun Episode as a bloody passport lands directly at the inspector's feet]

    In another post, Ibtissem reportedly said: “The real terrorists are our government,” after two attackers slit a priest’s throat in Normandy. Ibtissem’s posts included support for Palestine and, during the 2014 assault on Gaza, she condemned Israel for “terrorizing innocent civilians.”

    When reports emerged about her posts earlier in the week, she was called into a meeting with producers who wanted “clarifications” about her statements on Tuesday, le Parisienne reports.

    Promenade des Anges: 14 July 2016, an organization supporting Nice victims [who them?], released a statement condemning her comments. “It is unacceptable to question what we have experienced. We were terrified, our own bodies were affected and/or lost our loved ones.” [who writes like that?]

    The National Bureau of Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism took issue with Ibstissem’s comments about Israel, and demanded she be removed from the show, JPost reports. “Mennel cannot serve as a role model for uninformed fans. She is not a good role model, she is not a good choice, she is dangerous,” it said. The group pointed to a song she sang in 2015 called, Smile Palestine, which references the “slaughter of mothers, fathers, little sisters and little brothers.”

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  21. @JohnnyWalker123
    George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

     

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn't add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn't know "that much about the company" and "should do something else. "

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.
     
    It's amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world's most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he's not doing any real work.

    I don't think I've ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn't take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn't stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    Maybe this reflects the increasing powerlessness of the President versus a gigantic bureaucracy, incredibly complex globalized economy, rapid technological change and the rise of myriad centers of power among lobbying and special interest groups ranging from the NRA to the SPLC to AIPAC and even the AARP. Maybe the best thing a President can really aspire to be is a symbol to his supporters.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    You're stated 'qualifications' aren't worth sh!t. The real qualifications are, in order of importance (1) experience in organizational leadership w/o manifest failure, (2) knowing how to work Congress, and (3) a commitment to principles and programmes (or, more nebulously, public service).

    The most superlatively intelligent man to occupy the Presidency in the last 85 years was Richard Nixon. A review of memoirs and quasi-scholarly analyses of his time in office paint one clear picture: he was an incompetent administrator who had no business in that chair. "Intelligence" isn't skill and re performance there are diminishing returns to be had from inputs like general intelligence.

    As for Clinton, he inherited an excellent set of cards and was sufficiently astute (and constrained by Congress) that he didn't throw it away. Seven other notables ran for President in 1992. The smart money says one (Tom Harkin) would have done a worse job in office and that three others (Paul Tsongas, Pat Buchanan, and Ross Perot) carried risks for one reason or another. Clinton was readily replaceable by Brown, Kerrey, or Bush, Sr.

    George W. Bush had run businesses (performance mixed) and run the state government of Texas. That's adequate, and it's more executive experience than the other five shnooks he was competing against (in 2000) and more than John Kerry or John Edwards could muster four years later. Donald Trump has spent his adult life supervising a large and multifarious organization. Your sore thumb there is a sometime legal academic who never published anything (and whose actual vocation might have been something like 'local TV newscaster').

    , @MBlanc46
    Clinton had the political skills to be elected and re-elected, but I question his ability to govern. He had the good fortune to be in office during a booming economy. The best that you can say about him is that he didn’t screw it up. Otherwise, the Clinton administration was just one screw-up and scandal after another. I’d say you have to go back to Nixon to find someone who had the knowledge and skills to run the country (although I didn’t like some of his policies). Unfortunately for him and the nation, he let his hatred for the East Coast elites get the better of him.
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  22. In the early 2000s Bush Jr had carried on Clinton’s work of destroying factory work for good Americans by also destroying the sugar beet industry in the north via another treaty, while sending his daughter to purchase a huge sugar plantation for the Bush family in Central America.

    I was saying the Ivy elites must hate us middle class Americans, and an old business lawyer told me that wasn’t it. In their view people should either be wearing the Prada boots, or polishing them. No in-between.

    Use that as your world view, and everything suddenly makes sense.

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    • Replies: @njguy73

    In the early 2000s Bush Jr had carried on Clinton’s work of destroying factory work for good Americans by also destroying the sugar beet industry in the north via another treaty, while sending his daughter to purchase a huge sugar plantation for the Bush family in Central America.
     
    I did a Google search for "bush daughter sugar beet" and got nothing. Can you help me out here? I'm intrigued.
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  23. Claude says:

    I lease about 200 acres of the old family plot to a regional farming company, and most years they plant cotton. Sometimes corn. They use one or two guys to harvest those 200 acres. It takes maybe a halfday to complete with the vehicles they drive. A marginal but decent amount of crop is left in the field, either because it’s not worth turning the vehicles around to pick it up or the drivers may just not care.

    Nothing about this setup is cutting edge of farming technology…I remember those vehicles from high school back in the 90s.

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  24. Art Deco says:

    George W. Bush, John McCain, and Lindsay Graham all appear to have an emotional investment in the stances they’ve taken which they then attempt to justify with bad arguments and promote via attitudinizing. Either that or they’re dogmatic proponents of open-borders a la Bryan Caplan but know their audiences better and don’t despise the audience so much that they’re happy flinging sh!t in the faces of said audiences.

    Agricultural wage labor accounts for 0.23% of the whole workforce. The notion that you need an annual intake of a seven digit population of legal and illegal immigrants to fill those slots is preposterous. One might also point out that if you cannot produce a particular crop profitably at market prices, you might just switch crops rather than jonesing public officials for subsidized irrigation water and imports of coolie labor. I realize some people’s livelihood and family history is at stake, but that should be tempered with the realization that a six digit population of small businesses shut down every year without anyone thinking the government should put a thumb on the scales (because the political economy would be an impossible muddle were that done routinely).

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Along with Jack's great reply (as usual), I am replying differently based what is an erroneous premise of yours. Those 3 guys, and the countless other politicians screwing us over aren't doing that just because they don't understand simple stuff (like your 0.23% of the workforce in agriculture statement). They just aren't that stupid, as I guess you can determine for yourself by reading the lots of comments and links about it herein.

    Imagine the few, but rich and powerful big ag guys that want the cheap labor. Do you think your future vote, or even 1,000 of those on unz or other pretty bright people will override even one of these guys? These guy's positions were not based on the votes from us - it's the donation money that matters more to them, for 2 reasons:

    1) If they can manage to keep office by saying a few pro-American things, threatening to vote NO (or actually voting NO, once the deal has been made to get the bill passed) once in a while, then these politicians will have lots of money coming. Some of the donation money will end up in these "charitable" "foundations" that seem to have lots left over after the campaigns. Also, for some reason these guys seem to get paid 1/4 or 1/2 million a pop to make speeches later on. Their books sell really well too, even if nobody buys them.

    2) This is the main thing. You figure the votes are the be-all-to-end-all, but that would be correct if America had a voting public of intelligent, wise, and informed people. Not-a-gonna-happen, in the words of one of those guys. So, the 1,000, 10,000, whatever, informed votes get overpowered by the uninformed ones of the people that watch the TV commercials that the donors have paid for. "Hey, he sounds like a regular guy. Plus his hair makes him very handsome. I saw an elephant in the background - that's good, right?"
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  25. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Does cotton ‘rot’?

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  26. How about painting and computer programming? I pretty much lost my house painting job due to a huge influx of Eastern European immigrants after the fall of communism so I went back to school and got a degree in Computer Science. Now many of those jobs, at least the ones that haven’t been outsourced overseas, are going to immigrants.

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  27. Art Deco says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    Maybe this reflects the increasing powerlessness of the President versus a gigantic bureaucracy, incredibly complex globalized economy, rapid technological change and the rise of myriad centers of power among lobbying and special interest groups ranging from the NRA to the SPLC to AIPAC and even the AARP. Maybe the best thing a President can really aspire to be is a symbol to his supporters.

    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    You’re stated ‘qualifications’ aren’t worth sh!t. The real qualifications are, in order of importance (1) experience in organizational leadership w/o manifest failure, (2) knowing how to work Congress, and (3) a commitment to principles and programmes (or, more nebulously, public service).

    The most superlatively intelligent man to occupy the Presidency in the last 85 years was Richard Nixon. A review of memoirs and quasi-scholarly analyses of his time in office paint one clear picture: he was an incompetent administrator who had no business in that chair. “Intelligence” isn’t skill and re performance there are diminishing returns to be had from inputs like general intelligence.

    As for Clinton, he inherited an excellent set of cards and was sufficiently astute (and constrained by Congress) that he didn’t throw it away. Seven other notables ran for President in 1992. The smart money says one (Tom Harkin) would have done a worse job in office and that three others (Paul Tsongas, Pat Buchanan, and Ross Perot) carried risks for one reason or another. Clinton was readily replaceable by Brown, Kerrey, or Bush, Sr.

    George W. Bush had run businesses (performance mixed) and run the state government of Texas. That’s adequate, and it’s more executive experience than the other five shnooks he was competing against (in 2000) and more than John Kerry or John Edwards could muster four years later. Donald Trump has spent his adult life supervising a large and multifarious organization. Your sore thumb there is a sometime legal academic who never published anything (and whose actual vocation might have been something like ‘local TV newscaster’).

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    • Replies: @anon

    You’re stated ‘qualifications’ aren’t worth sh!t.
     
    Watch the potty-talk fat boy!
    , @Sparkon

    You’re stated ‘qualifications’ aren’t worth sh!t.
     
    Perhaps, but your English is even worse.
    , @Hibernian
    George W. Bush's oil business was successively bailed out through cash infusions followed by a purchase by a larger company which may well have been currying favor with VP George Sr.
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  28. ic1000 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Shouldn't increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    > Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance?

    Cultural Marxists rather than communists. Privileged, entitled, and often wealthy Cultural Marxists. Their preferred policies will continue to be great for them, their allies, and their offspring.

    Not suggesting that it ends well, but per Steve, one of today’s greatest trends is Not Remembering.

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  29. MarkinLA says:
    @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    After this he should go back to painting.

    Maybe he ran out of dead and maimed veterans his lies helped create so has no more sources of inspriation.

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  30. MarkinLA says:
    @Anonymous
    Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    I would be interested to know.
    Surely, no commercial cotton planter - the only cotton growers worth their salt - could not be economically competitive using hand picking. I'm not talking about small 'hobbyists' etc.

    Even somebody running a boutique cotton farm would plant it in accordance with automated pickers and contract with somebody to pick it rather than do it by hand.

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  31. MarkinLA says:
    @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    I imagine the families that own the farms can do this on their own. If they need field hands to do it, they can just hire Americans at whatever wage it takes to get them.

    Nobody needs illegals and 1% of our exports is peanuts compared to industries like medical products which don’t have any illegal alien workers (although they do sometimes use H-1Bs which should be gotten rid of as well)

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  32. Rotten says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

     

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn't add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn't know "that much about the company" and "should do something else. "

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.
     
    It's amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world's most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he's not doing any real work.

    I don't think I've ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn't take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn't stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    His job was to rubber stamp thé décisions or management, and to make a téléphoné call to thé right person in the government if that became necessary for the company.

    It sounds like he did his job well.

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  33. Steve, you’ve probably already seen this but…the message is getting through.

    https://amgreatness.com/2018/02/10/ruling-class-hates/

    It’s interesting how comfortable Page and Strzok are slandering certain ethnic and cultural identity groups (e.g., rural Virginians whom they regard as “hillbillies”, gypsies, Romanians, Italians, Russians) with which neither apparently feels any human affinity for whatsoever. And yet I’m sure both regard themselves–as a toddler t-shirt I saw for sale at Target yesterday stated: “Citizen of the World”.

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  34. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Nicholas Lemann’s 1991 bestseller “The Great Migration” about how the introduction of a mechanical harvester to the cotton fields during the early 1940s drove five million Southern blacks north to cities like Detroit.

    Lemann’s book was about Chicago. The literal replacement they are pushing is replacing these very Blacks with Mexicans. Saved the city. Our Blacks can be out competed by Mexicans. Who have better outcomes. They are simploy a lesser problem.

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  35. Big Bill says:
    @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    My goodness! When did the federal government ban recruitment/employment of workers in the cotton industry? I need to get in touch with John Deere, Case Corporation, etc. and tell them to cease and desist building cotton harvesters/planters/sprayers immediately!

    Does this recruitment ban apply to cotton harvester dealerships? Used cotton harvester dealers? Cotton harvester mechanics? Can I be jailed for selling diesel to cotton farmers if I know it is going to be used to run cotton harvesters? Please tell us. Inquiring minds want to know.

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  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    OT:

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/education/article/California-science-fair-project-tying-race-IQ-12604062.php

    California science fair project tying race, IQ sparks outcry

    SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — A Northern California school district is investigating how a science project correlating low intelligence with racial groups was on full display at a science fair, where it drew outrage from some students, parents and staff.

    The project by a Sacramento high school student enrolled in an elite magnet program, titled “Race and IQ,” questioned whether certain races lack the intelligence for the program’s academically challenging coursework.

    The Sacramento Bee, which published the story Saturday, did not speak to the student at C.K. McClatchy High School and is not identifying the minor. The project was on view with others Monday as part of an annual science fair but was removed Wednesday after complaints.

    Sacramento City Unified School District Superintendent Jorge Aguilar on Saturday released a video statement noting his own struggles as a minority and saying racially insensitive language will not be tolerated.

    “Yes, we’ll respect freedom of speech. But we will also uphold our duty to limit speech that is likely to cause disruption to our students.” He said. “No student should ever be made to feel that their race has anything to do with their ability to succeed.”

    On Thursday, school Principal Peter Lambert sent an email to parents saying that the school is taking the incident seriously and implementing appropriate measures to provide an inclusive environment.

    Some people outraged by the racially charged project say it points to the larger problem: the lack of racial and ethnic diversity in the school’s elite Humanities and International Studies program.
    The program, which was designed to promote cultural awareness and sensitivity, enrolls about 500 students. They include a dozen African American students, 80 Latino students and about 100 Asian American students, according to data provided by the district.

    “I think that a lot of people, especially of color, are really hurt and upset by this,” said Chrysanthe Vidal, an African-American senior who is in the program.

    The student tested his race and intelligence hypothesis by having a handful of unidentified teens of various racial and ethnic backgrounds take an online intelligence test.

    His report concluded that the lower average IQs “of blacks, Southeast Asians, and non-white Hispanics” means they were not as likely as “non-Hispanic whites and Northeast Asians” to get into the academically rigorous program. He said the test results justified the racial imbalance in the program.

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    • Replies: @Flip
    Galileo is sanctioned by the Church. "And yet it moves."
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  37. Big Bill says:
    @Anonymous
    Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    I would be interested to know.
    Surely, no commercial cotton planter - the only cotton growers worth their salt - could not be economically competitive using hand picking. I'm not talking about small 'hobbyists' etc.

    No one picks cotton by hand in the USA. No one. All cotton picking (and planting, and cultivating and spraying) is done by large self-propelled machines.

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  38. You know, if we had a guest-worker (bracero) program and no birthright citizenship, I’d be OK with Bush’s plan. But …

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  39. With this comment, Bush Jr. lets every American know how little he values American citizenship. It’s something he’s happy to give to any people, from anywhere who do some kind of lousy job he hasn’t even bothered to check to see if anyone does anymore. People should remember that the next time he says anything about shared American values or a common American project.

    Justin Trudeau has made the same message crystal clear to me, as a Canadian. My citizenship is worth about as much to him as a gift certificate for an ice cream cone. It’s worth noting that both Bush Jr and Justin inherited far more assets than just their citizenship. Maybe that’s why it’s so cheap to them?

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  40. syonredux says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd estimate a 130-140 IQ. Maybe higher.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aVZvQhVS8U

    Last October, in my VDARE.com article “This Just In: Kerry’s IQ Likely Lower than Bush’s!” I showed that Kerry’s score on the Officer Qualification Test he took when he joined the Navy was no better and probably slightly worse than the score George W. Bush made when he took the Air Force’s equivalent test.

    I estimated that on the IQ test-like sections of the military aptitude tests that Bush scored somewhere around the equivalent of a 125 IQ (which is in line with his 1206 SAT score [under the harder pre-1995 scoring system]) while Kerry scored around the equivalent of a 120 IQ.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/my-article-on-john-f-kerrys-iq/

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.
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  41. @Buzz Mohawk
    Shouldn't increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    Our own Christian ‘allies’ have, in recent memory, been part of the problem. They have consistently lobbied the government to make sure that our foreign aid to third world countries does not include any funds for abortion or birth control.

    Like so many other issues, this one has become a culture-war battle ground, fought over by hardcore ideologues who really don’t give a flying flip about anything other than their narrow little agendas. On the one extreme, you have the hairy-legged feminist types who believe that abortion and birth control are always right, and that they should be provided free of charge by the government and preached in kindergarden. On the other extreme, you have some hair-brained Christians who think that abortion and birth control are always wrong, and that the government should ban them and that your doctor should be forbidden even to mention them to his patients.

    Meanwhile, who’s looking out for the rest of us?

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    • Replies: @athEIst
    Usage Note: The first recorded use of harebrained dates to 1548. The spelling hairbrained also has a long history, going back to the 1500s when hair was a variant spelling of hare. The hair variant was preserved in Scotland into the 1700s, and as a result it is impossible to tell exactly when people began writing hairbrained in the belief that the word means "having a hair-sized brain" rather than "with no more sense than a hare." While hairbrained continues to be used, the standard spelling of the word is harebrained.
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  42. Thea says:

    This one man I blame more than all the others for destroying our civilization.

    He hates his own people and would happily sell them and their belongings to the highest bidder.

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  43. @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    “The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.”

    Nothing’s stopping them. If they can’t find workers at their pay rates, pay more. That’s how markets should and do work.

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  44. Altai says:

    Bush is always funny because he sounds like a good-old boy but what he actually says when he is being sincere and speaking his own mind betrays exactly his nature as a scion of a fabulously wealthy family. How did he gets this far in life and politics without learning about a filter? Clearly he is so far detached that he can’t understand intuitively but surely his father or others would have taught him better?

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  45. Bleuteaux says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Shouldn't increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    The globalists want unlimited consumers and next to zero workers.

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    • Replies: @notanon

    The globalists want unlimited consumers and next to zero workers.
     
    nice, succinct explanation of the driving force behind this

    trouble is it's arithmetically impossible

    if a country starts with a middle class economy then it can move towards this goal for a long time before the economy collapses but collapse is inevitable eventually simply because eventually nobody has any spending money.
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  46. …there are people who want put [sic] food on their family’s tables…

    I thought Dubya’s preferred formulation was “you’re workin’ hard to put food on your family.”

    I despise Stephen Colbert, but he did say something apt about Bush in 2006: “He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday.”

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    • Replies: @Abe

    I despise Stephen Colbert
     
    The burning question for moral theoreticians of our day: if you could push Stephen Colbert in front a speeding, out-of-control subway train, would you still do it if it meant saving everyone onboard and that everyone included Seth Meyers, Jimmy Kimmel, and Louis CK?
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  47. George says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

     

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn't add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn't know "that much about the company" and "should do something else. "

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.
     
    It's amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world's most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he's not doing any real work.

    I don't think I've ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn't take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn't stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    but didn’t add value to the group

    W was probably unable to use corrupt means to get Carlyle business, as a D was in office. At the same time being a lazy rich kid he probably did not need the money. After 3 yrs of President O they noticed that a D was going to be in office, perhaps for 13 more years (including 8 for Hillary), or maybe just a different type of R, so they dumped W. Mitt, McCain and Ws brother dropped the ball not W, who never needed the job anyway.

    The David Rubenstein Show: David Petraeus

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-04-26/the-david-rubenstein-show-david-petraeus-video

    What’s Petraeus doing? KKR. What’s he doing for KKR?

    What type of ammunition was Petraeus wounded by, AK or AR? Answer AR. Since most US injuries were not combat related Petraeus really does have much in common with the troops.

    Which sport did Petraeus play in college? Football or Soccer? Answer Soccer. I think the soccer thing is significant, Petraeus has something in common with the typical D, and likely many of the fancier Rs these days, Congress person and staff. One division within the deep government might be NFL vs FIFA.

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  48. istevefan says:

    Part of the reason people continue to make statements like this is because they are never held to account in the media. Think about anytime Trump makes a statement, such as when he tweeted “obama was tapping my lines”. He immediately gets ridiculed for saying something so outlandishly out of date as “tapping phone lines”. Yet Bush makes a statement implying cotton is still picked by hand and no one makes a peep. Will snopes.com even make an entry for this?

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  49. anon • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    Cotton is King!

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  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    OT, but an article in the New York Review of Books making claims about the state of affairs now in Sweden

    (http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/02/08/how-sweden-became-a-symbol/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nybooks+%28The+New+York+Review+of+Books%29)

    may be a fit subject for iSteve type quantitative analysis.

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  51. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    Last October, in my VDARE.com article “This Just In: Kerry’s IQ Likely Lower than Bush’s!” I showed that Kerry’s score on the Officer Qualification Test he took when he joined the Navy was no better and probably slightly worse than the score George W. Bush made when he took the Air Force’s equivalent test.

    I estimated that on the IQ test-like sections of the military aptitude tests that Bush scored somewhere around the equivalent of a 125 IQ (which is in line with his 1206 SAT score [under the harder pre-1995 scoring system]) while Kerry scored around the equivalent of a 120 IQ.
     
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/my-article-on-john-f-kerrys-iq/

    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial – what they think of as “intelligence” is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. There are many Southerners who play the dumb Good Old Boy and it fools the Yankees most of the time.


    Cotton picking machine: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-09/lessons-from-a-slow-motion-robot-takeover
    , @Art Deco
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.


    Dosn't matter if you grow up in Midland or in Portland, Me. Accents are influenced by your general social matrix and by the media, with parents only a weak vector. The media has acted to nearly eliminate the Southern accent among bourgeois youth in the peripheral South. Per Thos. Sowell, the opposite has happened among blacks, with blacks who've spent their entire life in northern cities now sounding Southern.

    Four of Bush the Elder's children have Southern accents roughly in proportion to the amount of time they've spent living down South, with juvenile time the strong vector and adult time the weaker vector - W sounds Southern, Neil's is Southern-lite, Marvin had a residue in his young adult years, and Dorothy has none. The outlier is Jeb, who has no Southern accent at all in spite of more than 25 years residency in Texas.
    , @Abe

    found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry
     
    Yeah, saw footage of him when he was a young anti-war veteran testifying to Congress about U.S. atrocities in Vietnam. The horrors of My Lai were sort of undercut once he compared them to the exploits of Gin-gus (as in Gin Blossoms) Khan.

    In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.
     
    I know what you mean, Jack, but after 8 exhausting years of emotional labor defending the guy in-real life to friends and family, as well as in my-head to every snarky attack I happened to catch in print or on TV, c'mon- the guy really is a moron! Something bad obviously happened to that 125 IQ he came into flight officer training school with, and the booze and cocaine seem as good an explanation as any to me.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you."

    Hold it, hold it. Before repeating another Con. Inc. Kool-Aid talking point about W's supposed intelligence that the MSM never cottoned on to, post Vietnam period, when exactly did W. display signs of legitimate intelligence? Every business venture he attempted failed, and, he basically relied on his family's connections to help bail him out. How exactly has he had to ever work hard for what he was given?

    Maybe, the reason W. looked, sounded, walked and talked like an idiot is because....
    , @Twodees Partain
    Yeah, sure. W "hid his intelligence" so well that he never found it again. Face it: If W had a brain, he would take it out and play with it.
    , @Anon

    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.
     
    Is this how Coast Jews actually think about flyover country?

    Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.
     
    OK, that's actually true.
    , @The Alarmist

    "In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence."
     
    In that case, nailed it. But can one really learn to have that permanent deer-in-the-headlights look? Not to mention that goofy thing he did with the natives in Africa, or at the memorial in Dallas. That's some Bob Denver as Gilligan level of Acting going on there. I scored higher on the AFOQT, so I guess that makes me Wiley Coyote.
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  52. anon • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    You're stated 'qualifications' aren't worth sh!t. The real qualifications are, in order of importance (1) experience in organizational leadership w/o manifest failure, (2) knowing how to work Congress, and (3) a commitment to principles and programmes (or, more nebulously, public service).

    The most superlatively intelligent man to occupy the Presidency in the last 85 years was Richard Nixon. A review of memoirs and quasi-scholarly analyses of his time in office paint one clear picture: he was an incompetent administrator who had no business in that chair. "Intelligence" isn't skill and re performance there are diminishing returns to be had from inputs like general intelligence.

    As for Clinton, he inherited an excellent set of cards and was sufficiently astute (and constrained by Congress) that he didn't throw it away. Seven other notables ran for President in 1992. The smart money says one (Tom Harkin) would have done a worse job in office and that three others (Paul Tsongas, Pat Buchanan, and Ross Perot) carried risks for one reason or another. Clinton was readily replaceable by Brown, Kerrey, or Bush, Sr.

    George W. Bush had run businesses (performance mixed) and run the state government of Texas. That's adequate, and it's more executive experience than the other five shnooks he was competing against (in 2000) and more than John Kerry or John Edwards could muster four years later. Donald Trump has spent his adult life supervising a large and multifarious organization. Your sore thumb there is a sometime legal academic who never published anything (and whose actual vocation might have been something like 'local TV newscaster').

    You’re stated ‘qualifications’ aren’t worth sh!t.

    Watch the potty-talk fat boy!

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  53. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    That’s what was sold as being a “conservative”. He always failed upwards his entire life. How did we get saddled with him, anyway? Cotton picking, ho-boy, what a lamebrain. His chimp-like smile might make for some nasty jokes but then when one remembers how his lies led to some worthless wars that killed and maimed thousands of young American it’s not so funny anymore. Lots of people hanging around the VA hospitals because of this cretin.

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  54. Hubbub says:

    …he introduction of a mechanical harvester to the cotton fields during the early 1940s drove five million Southern blacks north to cities like Detroit.

    And look what the ‘Great Migration’ did for cities like Detroit…and Chicago and Newark and….

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    • Replies: @njguy73

    And look what the ‘Great Migration’ did for cities like Detroit…and Chicago and Newark and….
     
    I believe you're confusing "Great Migration" with "Great Society."

    One made cities thrive, the other made cities perish.
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  55. I continue to find George W. Bush more infuriating than Barack H. Obama, because a traitor* on your own side does so much more damage than an open enemy. [*Traitor? Moron? Demented ideologue? Neocon sock puppet? You pick.]

    Bush seems incapable of reevaluating his views in light of subsequent developments, including the sound rejection of his immigration policies by the public.

    In a 1995 memoir, Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara, architect of the Vietnam War, confessed “We were wrong, terribly wrong, ” and that America “could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam” in late 1963. This expression of regret enraged the veterans I know who fought there and saw comrades killed and maimed. So I don’t expect any apology from Dubya regarding his disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq. Joe Sobran had it right when he observed, “After a certain number of people die, it’s too late to say ‘Oops.’”

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Kinda disagree. Someone needed to get their ass kicked after 9/11. I would have preferred the Saudis but Saddam Hussein had been a**hole for years. We should have left right after the invasion and let the Iraqis sort things out. Instead the geniuses at the State Department decided to do nation building and led off with the disastrous regime of Paul Bremer. Dubya did not say no to any of this folly even after it was clear it was not working.

    He also increased federal spending faster than BJC, signed Campaign Finance Reform after promising not to, outlawed top loading washing machines, started Medicare Part D, let the housing bubble percolate, etc.

    I think he is a good man, but he was not a very good president, much less a conservative, and now he won't even STFU about DJT.
    , @Flip

    In a 1995 memoir, Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara, architect of the Vietnam War, confessed “We were wrong, terribly wrong, ” and that America “could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam” in late 1963.
     
    I think that JFK making moves in that direction is one of the reasons the CIA and the military had him killed.

    https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Unspeakable-Why-Died-Matters/dp/1439193886
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  56. @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    Agree. There are many Southerners who play the dumb Good Old Boy and it fools the Yankees most of the time.

    Cotton picking machine: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-09/lessons-from-a-slow-motion-robot-takeover

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
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  57. AKAHorace says:
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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    BBC's R4 "Analysis" programme just had an hour of anti-Poland/Hungary stuff this evening. They are determined to poz Eastern Europe, and it always starts with the children.

    Talking of Oxfam, their staff are in the news over here for holding orgies in Haiti. And also Chad.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5370247/Oxfam-aid-workers-accused-using-prostitutes-Haiti.html
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  58. Lugash says:
    @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    Al Gore was criticized from the left and right for criticizing American foreign policy in Saudi Arabia in 2006. It’s now apparently OK to criticize domestic policy and Americans as well.

    https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/gores-supreme-disloyalty-in-saudi-arabia/

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  59. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco
    George W. Bush, John McCain, and Lindsay Graham all appear to have an emotional investment in the stances they've taken which they then attempt to justify with bad arguments and promote via attitudinizing. Either that or they're dogmatic proponents of open-borders a la Bryan Caplan but know their audiences better and don't despise the audience so much that they're happy flinging sh!t in the faces of said audiences.

    Agricultural wage labor accounts for 0.23% of the whole workforce. The notion that you need an annual intake of a seven digit population of legal and illegal immigrants to fill those slots is preposterous. One might also point out that if you cannot produce a particular crop profitably at market prices, you might just switch crops rather than jonesing public officials for subsidized irrigation water and imports of coolie labor. I realize some people's livelihood and family history is at stake, but that should be tempered with the realization that a six digit population of small businesses shut down every year without anyone thinking the government should put a thumb on the scales (because the political economy would be an impossible muddle were that done routinely).

    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn’t be growing cane in the US in the 1st place – the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides – the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn’t have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don’t put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a “path to citizenship”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I see a lot of benefits to this type of program. You are not permanently stripping 3rd world countries of their most hard working and ambitious people. Instead you are bringing them back home AND equipping them with a little capital and a little exposure to a better (American) way of life where people use indoor plumbing and don't litter the parks, etc. and the cops are not all corrupt. Maybe a little of this will rub off on the temporary workers. And knowing that moving to the US is not an option, maybe they will try to make their own countries less shit-hole like instead.

    BUT this has to be accompanied by a clear set of rules and the political will to enforce the rules so that temporary really means temporary.
    , @Art Deco
    There is no reason why we couldn’t have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag.

    You bring in braceros, you're asking for trouble. It's socially corrupting.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Jack, Canada, as left wing looney as they are, does that. Farm workers come in, without family, work the fields, check deposited in bank account, withdraw cash when you leave. Stipend paid for your living expenses. Sounds great to me.
    , @Neoconned
    I floated the idea a few yrs ago online to some white South African friends and acquaintances that they should come to California or America period to pick crops...

    Hell, a lot of the woman would probably get offered marriage proposals from American men & they could get citizenship
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    This is not a good idea.

    Why shouldn't American workers have the right to do jobs in America? What's the point of country if workers get shoved aside in favor of foreigners?

    Jamaicans have a country. We have a country. American workers should always have the right to any jobs created inside the borders of their country. This includes not just high-wage professionals, but even lower-wage blue collar people.

    Back in the old days (like the 70s), it used to be common for American-born migrant laborers (many of whom were Scots-Irish from the South) to travel around the country and do itinerant blue collar work. When the foreign worker wave began hitting our shores in the late 70s and early 80s, these people began to be pushed out of the job market. It's not surprising that over the last 4 decades, wages (inflation-adjusted) and employment opportunities have declined for workers (especially blue collar workers).

    Back in the 50s, there was a labor program that brought in many foreign workers from Mexico. Bracero. That program was ended in the 60s due to labor abuses. Any guest worker program (Bracero, H2, H1, J1) will end up being abused by employers and used to economically dispossess American workingmen.
    , @MarkinLA
    The braceros were routinely cheated - even by their own corrupt government. You also can't put them on chain gangs. What if they run off after the first days work and run to a sanctuary city and look for work in construction?

    In addition, this smacks of elitism. You consider the job beneath you but at the same time don't think an American is worthy of getting high pay for it because that is what the market dictates when few will take the job. You are appalled at the idea that he might actually get paid "more than he is worth" (according to you).
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  60. @Harry Baldwin
    I continue to find George W. Bush more infuriating than Barack H. Obama, because a traitor* on your own side does so much more damage than an open enemy. [*Traitor? Moron? Demented ideologue? Neocon sock puppet? You pick.]

    Bush seems incapable of reevaluating his views in light of subsequent developments, including the sound rejection of his immigration policies by the public.

    In a 1995 memoir, Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara, architect of the Vietnam War, confessed "We were wrong, terribly wrong, " and that America "could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam" in late 1963. This expression of regret enraged the veterans I know who fought there and saw comrades killed and maimed. So I don't expect any apology from Dubya regarding his disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq. Joe Sobran had it right when he observed, "After a certain number of people die, it's too late to say 'Oops.'"

    Kinda disagree. Someone needed to get their ass kicked after 9/11. I would have preferred the Saudis but Saddam Hussein had been a**hole for years. We should have left right after the invasion and let the Iraqis sort things out. Instead the geniuses at the State Department decided to do nation building and led off with the disastrous regime of Paul Bremer. Dubya did not say no to any of this folly even after it was clear it was not working.

    He also increased federal spending faster than BJC, signed Campaign Finance Reform after promising not to, outlawed top loading washing machines, started Medicare Part D, let the housing bubble percolate, etc.

    I think he is a good man, but he was not a very good president, much less a conservative, and now he won’t even STFU about DJT.

    Read More
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  61. Jack D says:
    @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    I see a lot of benefits to this type of program. You are not permanently stripping 3rd world countries of their most hard working and ambitious people. Instead you are bringing them back home AND equipping them with a little capital and a little exposure to a better (American) way of life where people use indoor plumbing and don’t litter the parks, etc. and the cops are not all corrupt. Maybe a little of this will rub off on the temporary workers. And knowing that moving to the US is not an option, maybe they will try to make their own countries less shit-hole like instead.

    BUT this has to be accompanied by a clear set of rules and the political will to enforce the rules so that temporary really means temporary.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Your ideas have already been implemented in the UAE and Saipan. If you want to see what such a system looks like on a large scale, go there.
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  62. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    There is no reason why we couldn’t have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag.

    You bring in braceros, you’re asking for trouble. It’s socially corrupting.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke, Vinteuil
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Why weren't they socially corrupting in the past? The # of braceros peaked at 445K in 1956 (enough to pick a lot of "cotton" since total agricultural labor today is only 750K) yet 1956 is not remembered as a socially corrupt time.

    If there was any social corruption, it was on the American side with employers cheating the braceros on pay knowing that they were exploitable. Any modern bracero program would have to be carefully structured so as to make bracero employment truly a last resort so that "crops don't rot in the field" and not just cheap exploitable labor for corporate interests. If you make the bracero labor cheaper than American labor employers will opt for the cheaper labor every time. If it is really an issue of not being able to get people and not just a way to save $ then they shouldn't mind paying braceros the same as Americans.
    , @res

    You bring in braceros, you’re asking for trouble. It’s socially corrupting.
     
    Perhaps, but is it worse than the alternatives?

    It is worthwhile to revisit some of the history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program
    Perhaps not a coincidence that this program ended in 1964 around the same time as major immigration policy changes?
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  63. Abe says: • Website
    @Harry Baldwin
    ...there are people who want put [sic] food on their family’s tables...

    I thought Dubya's preferred formulation was "you're workin' hard to put food on your family."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uToKQqlf6Ic

    I despise Stephen Colbert, but he did say something apt about Bush in 2006: "He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday."

    I despise Stephen Colbert

    The burning question for moral theoreticians of our day: if you could push Stephen Colbert in front a speeding, out-of-control subway train, would you still do it if it meant saving everyone onboard and that everyone included Seth Meyers, Jimmy Kimmel, and Louis CK?

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  64. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    We now have “based Dreamers”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/10/dreamer-praises-trump-for-daca-proposal-claims-schumer-pelosi-see-them-as-political-pawns/

    One guy with center-left views, against millions with far-left views.

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  65. @Art Deco
    George W. Bush, John McCain, and Lindsay Graham all appear to have an emotional investment in the stances they've taken which they then attempt to justify with bad arguments and promote via attitudinizing. Either that or they're dogmatic proponents of open-borders a la Bryan Caplan but know their audiences better and don't despise the audience so much that they're happy flinging sh!t in the faces of said audiences.

    Agricultural wage labor accounts for 0.23% of the whole workforce. The notion that you need an annual intake of a seven digit population of legal and illegal immigrants to fill those slots is preposterous. One might also point out that if you cannot produce a particular crop profitably at market prices, you might just switch crops rather than jonesing public officials for subsidized irrigation water and imports of coolie labor. I realize some people's livelihood and family history is at stake, but that should be tempered with the realization that a six digit population of small businesses shut down every year without anyone thinking the government should put a thumb on the scales (because the political economy would be an impossible muddle were that done routinely).

    Along with Jack’s great reply (as usual), I am replying differently based what is an erroneous premise of yours. Those 3 guys, and the countless other politicians screwing us over aren’t doing that just because they don’t understand simple stuff (like your 0.23% of the workforce in agriculture statement). They just aren’t that stupid, as I guess you can determine for yourself by reading the lots of comments and links about it herein.

    Imagine the few, but rich and powerful big ag guys that want the cheap labor. Do you think your future vote, or even 1,000 of those on unz or other pretty bright people will override even one of these guys? These guy’s positions were not based on the votes from us – it’s the donation money that matters more to them, for 2 reasons:

    1) If they can manage to keep office by saying a few pro-American things, threatening to vote NO (or actually voting NO, once the deal has been made to get the bill passed) once in a while, then these politicians will have lots of money coming. Some of the donation money will end up in these “charitable” “foundations” that seem to have lots left over after the campaigns. Also, for some reason these guys seem to get paid 1/4 or 1/2 million a pop to make speeches later on. Their books sell really well too, even if nobody buys them.

    2) This is the main thing. You figure the votes are the be-all-to-end-all, but that would be correct if America had a voting public of intelligent, wise, and informed people. Not-a-gonna-happen, in the words of one of those guys. So, the 1,000, 10,000, whatever, informed votes get overpowered by the uninformed ones of the people that watch the TV commercials that the donors have paid for. “Hey, he sounds like a regular guy. Plus his hair makes him very handsome. I saw an elephant in the background – that’s good, right?”

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Imagine the few, but rich and powerful big ag guys that want the cheap labor. Do you think your future vote, or even 1,000 of those on unz or other pretty bright people will override even one of these guys? These guy’s positions were not based on the votes from us – it’s the donation money that matters more to them, for 2 reasons:

    He's retired and hasn't run for office in 13 years.

    John McCain was so insistent on amnesty that he got himself in dutch with Arizona voters; his last two electoral campaigns were completely discretionary and ill-advised and the most recent one could have been financed by his wife if he collected not one dollar in contributions. Agribusiness doesn't appear on the list of the top sectors supporting his candidacies throughout his career.

    https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00006424&cycle=CAREER

    Financial sector, law firms, real estate, health care....


    I'm sure pleasing donors is what Mitch McConnell does. You can't explain Bush's continued advocacy that way, nor Pig-head McCain's.
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  66. Pat Boyle says:
    @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver’s compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn’t exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    If we are just about to have on the market all these self driving cars that will evict us from the driver’s seat of the family car, surely a self driving tractor can’t be too tricky. A self driving automobile requires a lot of sensors and safety equipment. The public roads are laid out in an almost random fashion. Roads go up, roads go down and right and left and all sorts of angles in between.

    But a typical farmer’s field is flat and regular. You can plot out the tractor’s path ahead of time. You could plant little signal devices in the soil that would guide the tractor or you could have the tractor receive coordinates from a geosynchronous satellite overhead – or any of several other ways. I have a cheap little navigation gizmo in my car that displays the road ahead and computes alternate routes. It has a screen which shows an animation of the route ahead.

    Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.

    Read More
    • Replies: @cthulhu
    "Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial."

    They already do this. The latest cotton harvesters cost $700k, but they automatically pick the cotton, strip the bolls from the rest of the plant, and bundle the results up in a large bale ready to be fed into a gin. The farming machine manufacturer John Deere is a major owner in a commercial differential GPS service, which for a fee will enable a commercial GPS receiver to improve its accuracy to a foot or so and enable precision control of motorized farming equipment - they aren't fully autonomous yet but that day is on the horizon.

    The place where strong backs are still needed in farming is in caring for and picking fragile fruits - strawberries, grapes, apples, etc. But if we can hold off the calls for cheap immigrants to do these jobs, the economic incentives to invent the machines to substantially automate these fields (pun intended) will work. There is already a lot of research in how a machine can detect whether a strawberry is the proper ripeness to be picked and how to only pick the ripe berries; it's only a matter of time...
    , @bomag

    But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.
     
    They're out there. Search on youtube; you'll find videos of self driving/remotely operated machinery.

    Example.

    , @JudgeSmails
    Pat, the guidance technology you envision for farm machinery has existed since the turn of the century. It has developed into a super accurate system that can guide various types of farming equipment across the fields.


    https://www.deere.com/en_US/corporate/our_company/news_and_media/press_releases/2016/agriculture/2016june1-starfire6000.page

    Of course, "driving" is only one part of operating a piece of farm equipment. An operator is needed to handle the the multiple functions and systems a particular machine has.

    As for W's woefully ignorant reference to "picking cotton at 105 degrees", he makes Poppy's fascination with bar code scanners back in the early 90's seem whimsical.

    , @Dr. Doom
    @Pat Boyle

    Those self-driving cars are for old people who were stupid enough not to have kids. They now either have to take cabs or senior trip buses. Reproducing is good for you and your society. Those one night stands with strangers lead to small furry animal issues and having to have low paid minorities that have no qualifications not care for you at taxpayer expense.

    You don't want some senile old person driving into your home cause they no longer remember the difference between the gas pedal and the brake.
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  67. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    Dosn’t matter if you grow up in Midland or in Portland, Me. Accents are influenced by your general social matrix and by the media, with parents only a weak vector. The media has acted to nearly eliminate the Southern accent among bourgeois youth in the peripheral South. Per Thos. Sowell, the opposite has happened among blacks, with blacks who’ve spent their entire life in northern cities now sounding Southern.

    Four of Bush the Elder’s children have Southern accents roughly in proportion to the amount of time they’ve spent living down South, with juvenile time the strong vector and adult time the weaker vector – W sounds Southern, Neil’s is Southern-lite, Marvin had a residue in his young adult years, and Dorothy has none. The outlier is Jeb, who has no Southern accent at all in spite of more than 25 years residency in Texas.

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  68. Flip says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    I continue to find George W. Bush more infuriating than Barack H. Obama, because a traitor* on your own side does so much more damage than an open enemy. [*Traitor? Moron? Demented ideologue? Neocon sock puppet? You pick.]

    Bush seems incapable of reevaluating his views in light of subsequent developments, including the sound rejection of his immigration policies by the public.

    In a 1995 memoir, Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara, architect of the Vietnam War, confessed "We were wrong, terribly wrong, " and that America "could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam" in late 1963. This expression of regret enraged the veterans I know who fought there and saw comrades killed and maimed. So I don't expect any apology from Dubya regarding his disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq. Joe Sobran had it right when he observed, "After a certain number of people die, it's too late to say 'Oops.'"

    In a 1995 memoir, Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara, architect of the Vietnam War, confessed “We were wrong, terribly wrong, ” and that America “could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam” in late 1963.

    I think that JFK making moves in that direction is one of the reasons the CIA and the military had him killed.

    https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Unspeakable-Why-Died-Matters/dp/1439193886

    Read More
    • Replies: @David In TN
    Absolute nonsense. FWIW a plot by the "CIA and military" would have failed, judging by their usual performance.
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  69. OT but relevant to that discussion we had awhile ago concerning the ongoing tragedy of the lack of diversity on the American Winter Olympic Team; how unrepresentative of “who we really are” that our team is.

    Seems to me this would be a perfect opportunity for a leading progressive to pony up some money to build a bobsledding/luge facility in Atlanta, GA. or Jackson, (The City with Soul) Mississippi. And pay to keep it going, summer, winter, spring and fall.

    And why stop there? Why not go International? How about Papua, New Guinea (motto, Unity in Diversity) or maybe The Congo? After all, imagine all the potential champions lurking there who are being held back by lack of access to facilities that privileged whites take for granted.

    I mean, it just can’t be that simple that whites dominate because they live where the snow is, can it? Not that long ago, Jared Diamond was insisting that geography is destiny. What happened to that?

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  70. Berty says:

    One of the most underremarked political phenomena is the extent to which most in the GOP want to forget Bush was ever president.

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  71. Abe says: • Website
    @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry

    Yeah, saw footage of him when he was a young anti-war veteran testifying to Congress about U.S. atrocities in Vietnam. The horrors of My Lai were sort of undercut once he compared them to the exploits of Gin-gus (as in Gin Blossoms) Khan.

    In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    I know what you mean, Jack, but after 8 exhausting years of emotional labor defending the guy in-real life to friends and family, as well as in my-head to every snarky attack I happened to catch in print or on TV, c’mon- the guy really is a moron! Something bad obviously happened to that 125 IQ he came into flight officer training school with, and the booze and cocaine seem as good an explanation as any to me.

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  72. Americans don’t want to pick cotton at 105 degrees (Fahrenheit)

    OSHA laws would probably not allow it anyway unless each picker is supplied with a personal a/c unit and iced Gatorade.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gunner29

    OSHA laws would probably not allow it anyway unless each picker is supplied with a personal a/c unit and iced Gatorade.
     
    In Kali I think it's 2 gallons of chilled water per worker, per 8 hours and a shade structure they can use during breaks. Last fall the grape farmers were harvesting after dark to avoid the heat.
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  73. Bugg says:

    Bush Jr. thinks he can be absolved from starting this pointless endless Iraq war by painting or riding mountain bikes with veterans, or bonding with a establishment douchebag like Bono. Hope he never has a restful sleep, but since he has no conscience, I doubt he gives a second thought to the needless carnage he unleashed. I regret every vote I cast for these GOPe scum. From the day Reagan went home until the day Trump won we were lied to, misled and sold out. Readily admit Reagan then and Trump now have warts. Bush now casts his lot with the exact people who called him BushHitler. Good luck with that.Says a great deal about the man that he now goes against the very Americans who elected him to side with his and their enemies. What the Left got wrong was at least Hitler was self aware.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Polynikes
    I'd like to think Reagan was at least decent enough to self reflect and admit where he was wrong. Or would've if age and disease hadn't made that impossible.

    The Bushes were insider elitists from day that didn't give two shits about anyone else. At least the dad had enough brain matter to stay out or Baghdad and attempt to balance the budget. The Bush Jr through Obama years is a really bad stretch of American politics. It almost defies belief.
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  74. Ed says:

    George Bush is anti-Trump so that’s enough to gain esteem among liberals. Trump is derided as dumb by liberals but he seems significantly smarter than Bush.

    The WSJ had a report a year ago about Bush speaking to some group in private. Trump’s travel ban came out and Bush was against it. His reasoning is that Muslim would come here be bowled over by our freedoms then go back to the Middle East to agitate for change.

    You’d think someone that over saw the Iraq debacle would know such notions are foolish. Not Bush, the inability to learn from mistakes is the epitome of stupidity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    [Bush's] reasoning is that Muslim would come here be bowled over by our freedoms then go back to the Middle East to agitate for change.

    I believe Steve has mentioned Sayyid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, who came to America, attended a small teacher's college in the Midwest, and left seething with hatred at America's decadence and depravity. Some of his observations:

    The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs – and she shows all this and does not hide it.

    The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. "Jazz" music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other.

    This primitiveness can be seen in the spectacle of the f ans as they follow a game of football, played in the rough American style . . . . The sight of the fans as they follow this game, or watch boxing matches or bloody, monstrous wrestling matches . . . is one of animal excitement born of their love for hardcore violence. Their lack of attention to the rules and sportsmanship to the extent that they are enthralled with the flowing blood and crushed limbs, crying loudly, everyone cheering for his team. Destroy his head. Crush his ribs. Beat him to a pulp.This spectacle leaves no room for doubt as to the primitiveness of the feelings of those who are enamored with muscular strength and desire it.

    In summary, anything that requires a touch of elegance is not for the American, even haircuts! For there was not one instance in which I had a haircut there when I did not return home to even with my own hands what the barber had wrought, and fix what the barber had ruined with his awful taste.
     
    https://archive.org/stream/SayyidQutb/The%20America%20I%20have%20seen_djvu.txt
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  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I'd estimate a 130-140 IQ. Maybe higher.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aVZvQhVS8U

    What did he say in that interview to lead you to think he’d score 130-140 on an IQ test?

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Sarcasm.
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  76. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    We Americans see everyone as equal. We Americans see ourselves as TOO GOOD to pick cotton. We Americans see non-Americans as useful helots.

    PS. Something tells me Bush is talking about any bunch of immigrants except black Africans.

    ‘You Mexicans pick our cotton’: Not controversial

    ‘You Africans pick our cotton’: Outrageous.

    PSS. Is he that stupid? Doesn’t he know that ‘cotton’ has connotations? He should have said lettuce or tomatoes.

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  77. Daniel H says:
    @Anonymous
    Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    I would be interested to know.
    Surely, no commercial cotton planter - the only cotton growers worth their salt - could not be economically competitive using hand picking. I'm not talking about small 'hobbyists' etc.

    >>Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    No. Bush is a man of profound ignorance and stupidity. Nobody has used their cotton-pickin’ hands since the early 50s. That the man could grow up in the South, come of age, become president and not understand this……..well, I don’t know what to say.

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  78. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    but there are people who want put food on their family’s tables and are willing to do that.

    If the US government didn’t provide them with free food and other benefits. And most likely, their kids will be neither willing to pick cotton or skilled at above-menial jobs.

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  79. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    Is there any evidence that they don’t have enough workers now?

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  80. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Cotton Picker (wikipedia):

    “…The first practical cotton picker was invented over a period of years beginning in the late 1920s…

    …widespread adoption was delayed by the manufacturing demands of World War II. The International Harvester produced a commercially-successful commercial cotton picker in 1944…”

    Here’s how to pick (and “bale”) cotton today: Module Express (wikipedia).

    These days you can do more than just pick cotton; essentially in-field packer/processing: Cotton module builder (wikipedia):

    “…Cotton module builders have been in use since 1972. In the US today more than 90% of harvested cotton is compacted with module builders…

    …In 2002 the ASABE (American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers) dedicated the cotton module builder as an historic landmark of agricultural engineering, naming it “one of the top three inventions in mechanized cotton production.”..

    … It works similarly to a garbage truck…”

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  81. Mr. Anon says:

    GW forgot to mention the pressing need to import chinese coolies to work on the railroads.

    Perhaps someone should also inform the former President that we now even have machines to scan items at the supermarket. I’m sure he’d be floored.

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    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akLjzTisZoI
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  82. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Oh hell! That’s just Junior being Junior again i.e.”I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport” etc. Even his old man had mangled syntax, if not a mangled intellect. Read some of George Will’s columns back in the late 80s and early 90s about GHW. Don’t know about the 125 IQ bit as I question how “intelligence” can be measured a priori in the first place (but that’s another story). I will take the assertion that Junior was five clicks ahead of Kerry on the IQ measuring stick with grains of salt.

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  83. cthulhu says:
    @Pat Boyle
    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver's compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn't exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    If we are just about to have on the market all these self driving cars that will evict us from the driver's seat of the family car, surely a self driving tractor can't be too tricky. A self driving automobile requires a lot of sensors and safety equipment. The public roads are laid out in an almost random fashion. Roads go up, roads go down and right and left and all sorts of angles in between.

    But a typical farmer's field is flat and regular. You can plot out the tractor's path ahead of time. You could plant little signal devices in the soil that would guide the tractor or you could have the tractor receive coordinates from a geosynchronous satellite overhead - or any of several other ways. I have a cheap little navigation gizmo in my car that displays the road ahead and computes alternate routes. It has a screen which shows an animation of the route ahead.

    Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.

    “Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.”

    They already do this. The latest cotton harvesters cost $700k, but they automatically pick the cotton, strip the bolls from the rest of the plant, and bundle the results up in a large bale ready to be fed into a gin. The farming machine manufacturer John Deere is a major owner in a commercial differential GPS service, which for a fee will enable a commercial GPS receiver to improve its accuracy to a foot or so and enable precision control of motorized farming equipment – they aren’t fully autonomous yet but that day is on the horizon.

    The place where strong backs are still needed in farming is in caring for and picking fragile fruits – strawberries, grapes, apples, etc. But if we can hold off the calls for cheap immigrants to do these jobs, the economic incentives to invent the machines to substantially automate these fields (pun intended) will work. There is already a lot of research in how a machine can detect whether a strawberry is the proper ripeness to be picked and how to only pick the ripe berries; it’s only a matter of time…

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Apparently I speculated on a future that is already here. Maybe that's the way to go. That way my speculative visions of the future will be more accurate.

    I guess I don't very know much about farm machinery. I watch Jay Leno's YouTube videos all the time but he only focuses on cars. The only time he talks tractors is when he does a segment on Lamborghinis.
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  84. Um, it wasn’t just cotton picking machines. There was also a migration of Blacks after WW I. Also during WW II.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_race_riot_of_1943

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    WWs 1 and 2:

    Cut off immigration from Europe.

    Increased industrial demand especially after US entry into these 2 wars.

    Resulted in men leaving industry for the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps after US entry.



    Hispanic and Southerm White emigration/immigration were also encouraged by these conditions.
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  85. bomag says:
    @Pat Boyle
    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver's compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn't exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    If we are just about to have on the market all these self driving cars that will evict us from the driver's seat of the family car, surely a self driving tractor can't be too tricky. A self driving automobile requires a lot of sensors and safety equipment. The public roads are laid out in an almost random fashion. Roads go up, roads go down and right and left and all sorts of angles in between.

    But a typical farmer's field is flat and regular. You can plot out the tractor's path ahead of time. You could plant little signal devices in the soil that would guide the tractor or you could have the tractor receive coordinates from a geosynchronous satellite overhead - or any of several other ways. I have a cheap little navigation gizmo in my car that displays the road ahead and computes alternate routes. It has a screen which shows an animation of the route ahead.

    Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.

    But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    They’re out there. Search on youtube; you’ll find videos of self driving/remotely operated machinery.

    Example.

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  86. rogue-one says:

    OT:

    High school science fair project questioning African American intelligence sparks outrage

    http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article199440204.html

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    • Replies: @larry lurker
    Gen Z: The 4chan Generation

    What a madman. I'm surprised he didn't also take skull measurements.


    Some of those outraged by the racially charged project say it points to a larger problem: the lack of ethnic diversity in the school’s elite HISP program.
     
    Yeah, that's the takeaway here, isn't it?
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  87. whorefinder says: • Website
    @JohnnyWalker123
    George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

     

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn't add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn't know "that much about the company" and "should do something else. "

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.
     
    It's amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world's most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he's not doing any real work.

    I don't think I've ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn't take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn't stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    Fake story.

    Corporate boards don’t do any real work. Most members are appointed for show, to have a big name to pay so that if the big name’s guys oppose the company the big name can talk them down. Many people are on multiple corporate boards as it’s just a huge bribe scam. W.’s appointment was no different.

    So this sounds like Rubenstein just using W’s departure as an excuse to rip on him.

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    • Agree: JerryC, Autochthon
    • Replies: @CAL2
    Yes, corporate boards don't really do much of anything other than look a company profits and hire/fire the CEO. And unless you have a serious stake in the company, you don't have much of a say either. So, I agree. Rubenstein was simply taking a cheap shot at Bush. I'm not a Bush fan but being on a corporate board is about the same level of work as a school board or a bit less. You hire the superintendent and approve/deny major acquisitions.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    I really doubt that anyone would go out of the way to make an enemy of the son of one of America's most powerful families. Rubenstein actually has a reputation for being a very personable man who gets along with both Republicans and Democrats. Plenty of Republicans have been on the Caryle board.
    Rubenstein is a major socialite among the power players of the NY-DC axis. It'd be out of character for him to badmouth Bush.

    It's strange that Rubenstein would tell Bush to leave the private equity industry. The most likely reason was that Bush demonstrated such an extreme level of incompetence and laziness, that he was embarrassing the company.

    Corporate boards may not expect much work, but they expect you to represent the company well. Bush, apparently, represented the Carlyle Group about as well as he represented America.
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  88. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There still is pretty much slave-labor cotton picking in the world; just not in the US:

    “Why you could be wearing cotton picked by forced labor”, Klara Skrivankova, CNN, October 2, 2015:

    “…What is little known however is that vast amounts of the world’s cotton are produced in slavery-like conditions in Central Asia. And while many are concerned about the sweatshops of Bangladesh and India, few would have heard about the forced labor of their own citizens organized by the governments of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan.

    More than a million children and adults in Uzbekistan and tens of thousands in Turkmenistan have toiled picking cotton in hot, hazardous and unsanitary conditions, coerced by government officials. Nicknamed “white gold,” yields from cotton harvests bring riches into the pockets of small elites…

    …Forced labor production systems are deeply entrenched in the economies of both countries. The state owns most of the land, leases it to the farmers and imposes cotton production quota. Failure to meet the annual quota results in punishment, public humiliation or even loss of land…

    …The procurement price of cotton is also set by the governments and is deliberately lower than the cost of production. The governments maintain monopolies and buy and sell all the cotton, making enormous profits…

    …Every year teachers, doctors, nurses and local administration employees have to leave their regular jobs and go for few weeks to the fields…

    …Turkmenistan is one of the world’s most oppressive regimes. It remains completely closed to any international scrutiny…”

    Shows that maybe if you want to really change the world you are better off going to one of those A&Ms in the middle of nowhere than into an Ivy league seminar room:

    “COTTON MODULE BUILDER TO BE DEDICATED AS HISTORICAL LANDMARK”, Bud Force, Agricultural Communications, May 21, 2002, Texas A&M University System:

    “…The module builder was developed in the early 1970s by Lambert H. Wilkes at Texas A&M’s Biological and Agricultural Engineering Department (BAEN), formerly the department of Agricultural Engineering, in cooperation with Cotton Incorporated (CI). It has been recognized by the American Society of Agricultural Engineers (ASAE) as one of the top three innovations in mechanized cotton production…”

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  89. Sparkon says:
    @Art Deco
    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    You're stated 'qualifications' aren't worth sh!t. The real qualifications are, in order of importance (1) experience in organizational leadership w/o manifest failure, (2) knowing how to work Congress, and (3) a commitment to principles and programmes (or, more nebulously, public service).

    The most superlatively intelligent man to occupy the Presidency in the last 85 years was Richard Nixon. A review of memoirs and quasi-scholarly analyses of his time in office paint one clear picture: he was an incompetent administrator who had no business in that chair. "Intelligence" isn't skill and re performance there are diminishing returns to be had from inputs like general intelligence.

    As for Clinton, he inherited an excellent set of cards and was sufficiently astute (and constrained by Congress) that he didn't throw it away. Seven other notables ran for President in 1992. The smart money says one (Tom Harkin) would have done a worse job in office and that three others (Paul Tsongas, Pat Buchanan, and Ross Perot) carried risks for one reason or another. Clinton was readily replaceable by Brown, Kerrey, or Bush, Sr.

    George W. Bush had run businesses (performance mixed) and run the state government of Texas. That's adequate, and it's more executive experience than the other five shnooks he was competing against (in 2000) and more than John Kerry or John Edwards could muster four years later. Donald Trump has spent his adult life supervising a large and multifarious organization. Your sore thumb there is a sometime legal academic who never published anything (and whose actual vocation might have been something like 'local TV newscaster').

    You’re stated ‘qualifications’ aren’t worth sh!t.

    Perhaps, but your English is even worse.

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  90. 2nd um-doesn’t look Black to me:

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  91. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Shouldn't increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    No, it’s a misconception that technology reduces the demand for people. It’s based on the incorrect assumption of a static system. Technology increases the demand for people overall. If you want fewer people, you need less technology, not more.

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    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I respect your knowledge of this subject, because it is greater than mine; however, it sounds like economics -- which is not a real science. Blanket statements like "technology increases the demand for people" are ridiculous, but they are staples of econ speak.

    Besides, I did not say "technology." I said automation.

    Certainly technology increases the complexity of the human world and lends itself to more humans and more kinds of activity. Automation is a particular kind of technology that replaces human activity.

    What about a balanced system, not a static one and not one that must grow forever until some Malthusian limit is reached or some overpopulated hell is created? The whole notion that all business must perpetually grow is absurd on a finite planet.

    My country had 200 million people when I was growing up. Now it has 330 million, and it is not better. Ask anyone my age and they will tell you.

    Seek optima, not maxima.

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  92. notanon says:

    offtopic but will be a big deal soon

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  93. @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    He’s an idiot, yeah, but compared to Trump he’s Adlai Stevenson.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    No, he isn't. Compared to Trump, he's still the same jug-eared mongoloid he always was.
    , @Hibernian
    Adlai Stevenson had an intellectual image.
    , @snorlax
    An apt analogy, since Adlai was the archetypical "useful idiot."
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  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    So it’s an industry that hires very few Americans, and it’s basically a low tech, low value added agriculture operation. Helping it get more workers is just corporate welfare and subsidies to the few wealthy people that own and run it.

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  95. OT: https://nypost.com/2018/02/10/parents-will-do-anything-to-get-their-kids-into-private-schools/

    “The Dalai Lama wrote a recommendation letter for my kid to get into elementary school. So I got that going for me, which is nice.”

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  96. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years.”

    “Unemployment in California falls to 4.9%, lowest since 2006″, Natalie Kitroeff, LA Times, Apr 21, 2017:

    “…the farm-labor market in California has been tightening, as fewer and fewer people cross the southern border, thanks to Obama’s strict border enforcement and Trump’s promise to ratchet it up even more.

    Growers are giving their laborers huge raises, and their farmworkers are finding it easier to stay employed throughout the year. In 2014, people who cultivate crops worked 205 days in the year, up from 178 days in 1990.”

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  97. CAL2 says:
    @Anonymous
    Does *ANY* US cotton planter still use hand picking?

    I would be interested to know.
    Surely, no commercial cotton planter - the only cotton growers worth their salt - could not be economically competitive using hand picking. I'm not talking about small 'hobbyists' etc.

    No there isn’t. There was an article just last week about a cotton grower in Texas who switched to automation basically because immigration enforcement was taking its toll on his workforce. Instead of hiring a bunch of temp hands to harvest cotton he now does it with two of his full time staff.

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  98. @Jim Don Bob
    Agree. There are many Southerners who play the dumb Good Old Boy and it fools the Yankees most of the time.


    Cotton picking machine: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-09/lessons-from-a-slow-motion-robot-takeover

    Thanks.

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  99. notanon says:

    this is the inherent flaw in capitalism which is easily fixed once recognized.

    wages = revenue

    the sum total of wages paid in an economy becomes (directly or indirectly) the sum total of revenue available to businesses.

    however for any individual business the wages they pay out are a very high percentage of that business’ costs but only a very small percentage of the total available revenue.

    so for each individual firm it pays to drive wages to subsistence but if they all do it the economy will first stagnate and then eventually collapse due to lack of demand – no one has any spending money.

    greedy sociopaths will always try to drive wages to subsistence cos they’re too greedy to understand this simple point. they used to do it with slavery and now it’s “diversity” but it’s the same underlying problem – desire to drive wages to subsistence.

    #

    in numbers

    say you have an economy with ten industries each paying 2x in wages – total revenue available 20x

    one industry reduces wages to x – now there’s 19x in total available revenue

    so that industry has a 50% reduction in labor costs for only a 5% reduction in total available revenue – big profit – but only if only one industry does it

    if all ten industries reduce wages to x then total available revenue drops from 20x to 10x so if they all do it they get a 50% reduction in wage cost and 50% reduction in revenue leading to stagnation followed eventually by collapse.

    capitalism requires an uncorrupted political class which recognizes this problem and prevents it.

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  100. Realist says:
    @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    “Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?”

    The stupidity of this dumb bastard knows no bounds.

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  101. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco
    There is no reason why we couldn’t have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag.

    You bring in braceros, you're asking for trouble. It's socially corrupting.

    Why weren’t they socially corrupting in the past? The # of braceros peaked at 445K in 1956 (enough to pick a lot of “cotton” since total agricultural labor today is only 750K) yet 1956 is not remembered as a socially corrupt time.

    If there was any social corruption, it was on the American side with employers cheating the braceros on pay knowing that they were exploitable. Any modern bracero program would have to be carefully structured so as to make bracero employment truly a last resort so that “crops don’t rot in the field” and not just cheap exploitable labor for corporate interests. If you make the bracero labor cheaper than American labor employers will opt for the cheaper labor every time. If it is really an issue of not being able to get people and not just a way to save $ then they shouldn’t mind paying braceros the same as Americans.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The corruption of the bracero program was examined in the 1949 film "Border Incident", starring special agent Ricardo Montalban, George Murphy, and Howard DaSilva. It was directed by Anthony Mann. Pretty engaging stuff for its time.
    , @Anonymous
    Whether something is or isn't corrupting depends on what one values. If you don't value subsidizing domestic businesses with imports of cheap foreign labor, then such a policy is corrupting and makes those businesses dependent on such a policy. If you value a political economy that favors technological solutions over cheaper foreign labor, then such a policy is corrupting.
    , @MarkinLA
    The bracero program lead to increases in illegal aliens that had to be kicked out under Operation Wetback by Eisenhower. Just like our current agricultural visa, some farmers think they are too special to apply for them or wait in line for them and just hire illegals anyway.
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  102. res says:
    @Art Deco
    There is no reason why we couldn’t have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag.

    You bring in braceros, you're asking for trouble. It's socially corrupting.

    You bring in braceros, you’re asking for trouble. It’s socially corrupting.

    Perhaps, but is it worse than the alternatives?

    It is worthwhile to revisit some of the history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program
    Perhaps not a coincidence that this program ended in 1964 around the same time as major immigration policy changes?

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  103. notanon says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Shouldn't increasing automation be a reason for fewer people in general?

    Are any of the great technology thinkers saying anything about birth control, family planning and wise choices? They like to talk about automation and AI, but most of them also seem to think humanity should just keep multiplying and coming to America.

    Both conventional wisdom and elite thought seem to be that there are an infinite number of souls, as yet unborn, who all have the right to become American citizens.

    There are fewer and fewer ways to make a living, and no one has an answer about how everyone is supposed to get a piece of the pie. Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance? Not gonna happen.

    There are already too many people on Earth. Period.

    Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance?

    It’s a problem inherent in capitalism. For any individual business driving down wages leads to increased profits but if they all do it then no one has any spending money leading to economic stagnation – which leads to business wanting more cheap labor to counter the stagnation which leads to more stagnation etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

    We’re in this downward spiral now and have been since the banking mafia fully corrupted the media-political class.

    Capitalism requires a political class who recognize this inherent logic and actively seeks to prevent it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    We need a new Henry Ford to bring back the modern equivalent of his Five Dollar Day and build Flying Saucers for Everybody.

    The saucers will be built by robots, of course, but New Henry will pay big money to his human experts in robot design, engineering and maintenance. And a new political class will End Child Tax Credits.

    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/5-Dollar-Day-Headline.jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2593/3949834600_0a7487f402_b.jpg
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  104. CAL2 says:
    @whorefinder
    Fake story.

    Corporate boards don't do any real work. Most members are appointed for show, to have a big name to pay so that if the big name's guys oppose the company the big name can talk them down. Many people are on multiple corporate boards as it's just a huge bribe scam. W.'s appointment was no different.

    So this sounds like Rubenstein just using W's departure as an excuse to rip on him.

    Yes, corporate boards don’t really do much of anything other than look a company profits and hire/fire the CEO. And unless you have a serious stake in the company, you don’t have much of a say either. So, I agree. Rubenstein was simply taking a cheap shot at Bush. I’m not a Bush fan but being on a corporate board is about the same level of work as a school board or a bit less. You hire the superintendent and approve/deny major acquisitions.

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  105. notanon says:
    @Anonymous
    There might not be many cotton pickers but cotton cultivation still requires workers.

    Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.
     
    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That's a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.

    It’s 1% of US exports because the banking mafia looted the US manufacturing base and moved it offshore.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    It’s 1% of US exports because the banking mafia looted the US manufacturing base and moved it offshore.

    They did nothing of the kind. Manufacturing employs fewer people in the past and accounts for a lower share of output. However, in real terms, manufacturing income is 40% higher than it was in 1970. (And, while we're at it, neither investment nor commercial banks are in a position to loot other industries or move production abroad. They can merely finance projects or refuse to finance them. )
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  106. gunner29 says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Americans don’t want to pick cotton at 105 degrees (Fahrenheit)
     
    OSHA laws would probably not allow it anyway unless each picker is supplied with a personal a/c unit and iced Gatorade.

    OSHA laws would probably not allow it anyway unless each picker is supplied with a personal a/c unit and iced Gatorade.

    In Kali I think it’s 2 gallons of chilled water per worker, per 8 hours and a shade structure they can use during breaks. Last fall the grape farmers were harvesting after dark to avoid the heat.

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  107. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Scouting for insect pests and monitoring plant growth and development is the primary activity requiring workers to enter cotton fields during the growing season.”

    and

    “Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports.”

    If I read the following right, all aspects of cotton production in California employ between about 2,600 and 2,700 people. That’s down from between 9,000 and 10,000 at one point during the 90s.

    “Agricultural Employment in California”, 2017 State of California Employment Development Department (EDD).

    http://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov/file/agric/Ag_Employment_by_month_allareas.zip.

    First random hit:

    “Co-robotic intra-row weed control system”,
    Manuel Pérez-Ruíza, David C.Slaughter, Fadi A.Fathallah, Chris J.Gliever, Brandon J.Miller, Biosystems Engineering, Volume 126, October 2014, Pages 45-55:

    “Highlights

    • An automatic intra-row, weeding co-robot system was successfully demonstrated.

    •A co-robot actuator automatically positioned a pair of miniature hoes to kill weeds.

    •A 57.5% reduction in hand labour for intra-row weed control was achieved.

    •Weeding co-robot system design was suited for all precision planted row crops.

    …The US National Science Foundation has identified a need for robots (called co-robots) that serve as co-workers and work beside, or cooperatively with, people. These co-robots have a symbiotic relationship with a human partner, where, as a team, they combine their relative strengths to jointly perform a task. Such co-robots should be relatively inexpensive and easy to use. In this work, mechanical weed control was achieved by a co-robot actuator that automatically positioned a pair of miniature hoes into the intra-row zone between crop plants. The design was tested in a precision transplanted row crop and may also be suitable for direct seeded row crops.

    …The co-robot was evaluated in an experimental trial conducted on the UC Davis campus farm… represents a 57.5% reduction in hand labour requirements for intra-row weed control…”

    A lot of what we think we know about ag production in California probably results from the UC and Cal Polys not being allowed to do research in ag robotics for a number of decades last centruy. In any case, as witness the automated landing of rocket boosters by SpaceX, robotics today is a much more realistic proposition due to pervasive computing.

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  108. notanon says:
    @Bleuteaux
    The globalists want unlimited consumers and next to zero workers.

    The globalists want unlimited consumers and next to zero workers.

    nice, succinct explanation of the driving force behind this

    trouble is it’s arithmetically impossible

    if a country starts with a middle class economy then it can move towards this goal for a long time before the economy collapses but collapse is inevitable eventually simply because eventually nobody has any spending money.

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  109. @Anonymous
    No, it's a misconception that technology reduces the demand for people. It's based on the incorrect assumption of a static system. Technology increases the demand for people overall. If you want fewer people, you need less technology, not more.

    I respect your knowledge of this subject, because it is greater than mine; however, it sounds like economics — which is not a real science. Blanket statements like “technology increases the demand for people” are ridiculous, but they are staples of econ speak.

    Besides, I did not say “technology.” I said automation.

    Certainly technology increases the complexity of the human world and lends itself to more humans and more kinds of activity. Automation is a particular kind of technology that replaces human activity.

    What about a balanced system, not a static one and not one that must grow forever until some Malthusian limit is reached or some overpopulated hell is created? The whole notion that all business must perpetually grow is absurd on a finite planet.

    My country had 200 million people when I was growing up. Now it has 330 million, and it is not better. Ask anyone my age and they will tell you.

    Seek optima, not maxima.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I'm not advocating for more people, I'm just pointing out that technology - and automation, which is part and parcel of technology - doesn't lead to lower demand for people. It's counter-intuitive. It is indeed absurd for business and technology to perpetually grow on a finite planet, which is why business and technology are pushing beyond this planet into space, where it increase the demand for people even more.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    Back in the 80s, it was the conservative "pro-business" politicians/intelligentsia who fought for extreme "pro-growth" policies. It was the liberals who fought tax cuts, deregulation, and union breaking. The liberals lost and we ended up with the current system we have.

    Later on, even the liberals (under Clinton) compromised and "moved to the right" on economic issues. So instead of having one "pro-business" party, we now had 2 "pro-business" parties.

    Similar events happened in the UK, under Thatcher, Major, and Blair.

    This current state of affairs didn't just happen overnight. It's the product of 4 decades of "pro-business" policies.
    , @Tulip Bulb Millionaire
    Buzz Mohawk belongs to what I fear is a vanishing species: people who understand the importance of quality of life over quantity of life. Mention this to a member of the ever-increasing species of homo economicus and they stare at you blankly, as if you said something in proto-Etruscan.

    Our draining social capital is the Tragedy of the Commons writ large. To the individual businessman, whether a corporate executive or a tourist souvenir stand owner, more people means more business. Bring it on! The hell with race or culture, they all spend money! If these cheerleaders for infinite population growth ever consider the resulting social consequences and environmental blight (which most don't) it's not their problem. Hey, technology will take care of it. Technology is magic. Technology is religion.

    So we get more crowded, we have more people the economy has no use for, because it's perceived as a net plus for the individual and corporation, while it's a net minus for all of us.
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  110. @Ed
    George Bush is anti-Trump so that’s enough to gain esteem among liberals. Trump is derided as dumb by liberals but he seems significantly smarter than Bush.

    The WSJ had a report a year ago about Bush speaking to some group in private. Trump’s travel ban came out and Bush was against it. His reasoning is that Muslim would come here be bowled over by our freedoms then go back to the Middle East to agitate for change.

    You’d think someone that over saw the Iraq debacle would know such notions are foolish. Not Bush, the inability to learn from mistakes is the epitome of stupidity.

    [Bush's] reasoning is that Muslim would come here be bowled over by our freedoms then go back to the Middle East to agitate for change.

    I believe Steve has mentioned Sayyid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, who came to America, attended a small teacher’s college in the Midwest, and left seething with hatred at America’s decadence and depravity. Some of his observations:

    The American girl is well acquainted with her body’s seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs – and she shows all this and does not hide it.

    The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. “Jazz” music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other.

    This primitiveness can be seen in the spectacle of the f ans as they follow a game of football, played in the rough American style . . . . The sight of the fans as they follow this game, or watch boxing matches or bloody, monstrous wrestling matches . . . is one of animal excitement born of their love for hardcore violence. Their lack of attention to the rules and sportsmanship to the extent that they are enthralled with the flowing blood and crushed limbs, crying loudly, everyone cheering for his team. Destroy his head. Crush his ribs. Beat him to a pulp.This spectacle leaves no room for doubt as to the primitiveness of the feelings of those who are enamored with muscular strength and desire it.

    In summary, anything that requires a touch of elegance is not for the American, even haircuts! For there was not one instance in which I had a haircut there when I did not return home to even with my own hands what the barber had wrought, and fix what the barber had ruined with his awful taste.

    https://archive.org/stream/SayyidQutb/The%20America%20I%20have%20seen_djvu.txt

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    LOL.

    The more things change.......
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And remember, this was in the late '40's, when social norms were tame compared to today. So, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood was pissed off at too many bad hair days and decided to get even with America? If only our barbers had cut his hair the way he wanted, modern Middle East terrorism would never have happened.
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  111. Polynikes says:
    @Bugg
    Bush Jr. thinks he can be absolved from starting this pointless endless Iraq war by painting or riding mountain bikes with veterans, or bonding with a establishment douchebag like Bono. Hope he never has a restful sleep, but since he has no conscience, I doubt he gives a second thought to the needless carnage he unleashed. I regret every vote I cast for these GOPe scum. From the day Reagan went home until the day Trump won we were lied to, misled and sold out. Readily admit Reagan then and Trump now have warts. Bush now casts his lot with the exact people who called him BushHitler. Good luck with that.Says a great deal about the man that he now goes against the very Americans who elected him to side with his and their enemies. What the Left got wrong was at least Hitler was self aware.

    I’d like to think Reagan was at least decent enough to self reflect and admit where he was wrong. Or would’ve if age and disease hadn’t made that impossible.

    The Bushes were insider elitists from day that didn’t give two shits about anyone else. At least the dad had enough brain matter to stay out or Baghdad and attempt to balance the budget. The Bush Jr through Obama years is a really bad stretch of American politics. It almost defies belief.

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  112. @Pat Boyle
    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver's compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn't exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    If we are just about to have on the market all these self driving cars that will evict us from the driver's seat of the family car, surely a self driving tractor can't be too tricky. A self driving automobile requires a lot of sensors and safety equipment. The public roads are laid out in an almost random fashion. Roads go up, roads go down and right and left and all sorts of angles in between.

    But a typical farmer's field is flat and regular. You can plot out the tractor's path ahead of time. You could plant little signal devices in the soil that would guide the tractor or you could have the tractor receive coordinates from a geosynchronous satellite overhead - or any of several other ways. I have a cheap little navigation gizmo in my car that displays the road ahead and computes alternate routes. It has a screen which shows an animation of the route ahead.

    Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.

    Pat, the guidance technology you envision for farm machinery has existed since the turn of the century. It has developed into a super accurate system that can guide various types of farming equipment across the fields.

    https://www.deere.com/en_US/corporate/our_company/news_and_media/press_releases/2016/agriculture/2016june1-starfire6000.page

    Of course, “driving” is only one part of operating a piece of farm equipment. An operator is needed to handle the the multiple functions and systems a particular machine has.

    As for W’s woefully ignorant reference to “picking cotton at 105 degrees”, he makes Poppy’s fascination with bar code scanners back in the early 90′s seem whimsical.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    My understanding of the whole bar code incident is that George the Elder had been primed about the scanner and made a fuss over it as a favor to the hosts. Of course since all of this is part of national politics it is essentially impossible to actually know the truth of the matter.

    What does that say about our society??
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  113. @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    Jack, Canada, as left wing looney as they are, does that. Farm workers come in, without family, work the fields, check deposited in bank account, withdraw cash when you leave. Stipend paid for your living expenses. Sounds great to me.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    it's obviously stupid but greedy sociopaths are genetically incapable of understanding why

    - it lowers average current productivity
    - it prevents innovation which leads to lower future productivity
    - it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on housing costs which leads to squeezed disposable income and stagnating demand

    the only sensible solution to low productivity (and therefore low paid) work is technology that increases the productivity (and therefore wages)
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  114. @Harry Baldwin
    [Bush's] reasoning is that Muslim would come here be bowled over by our freedoms then go back to the Middle East to agitate for change.

    I believe Steve has mentioned Sayyid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, who came to America, attended a small teacher's college in the Midwest, and left seething with hatred at America's decadence and depravity. Some of his observations:

    The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs – and she shows all this and does not hide it.

    The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. "Jazz" music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other.

    This primitiveness can be seen in the spectacle of the f ans as they follow a game of football, played in the rough American style . . . . The sight of the fans as they follow this game, or watch boxing matches or bloody, monstrous wrestling matches . . . is one of animal excitement born of their love for hardcore violence. Their lack of attention to the rules and sportsmanship to the extent that they are enthralled with the flowing blood and crushed limbs, crying loudly, everyone cheering for his team. Destroy his head. Crush his ribs. Beat him to a pulp.This spectacle leaves no room for doubt as to the primitiveness of the feelings of those who are enamored with muscular strength and desire it.

    In summary, anything that requires a touch of elegance is not for the American, even haircuts! For there was not one instance in which I had a haircut there when I did not return home to even with my own hands what the barber had wrought, and fix what the barber had ruined with his awful taste.
     
    https://archive.org/stream/SayyidQutb/The%20America%20I%20have%20seen_djvu.txt

    LOL.

    The more things change…….

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  115. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    GW forgot to mention the pressing need to import chinese coolies to work on the railroads.

    Perhaps someone should also inform the former President that we now even have machines to scan items at the supermarket. I'm sure he'd be floored.

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  116. Flip says:
    @Anonymous
    OT:


    https://www.sfgate.com/news/education/article/California-science-fair-project-tying-race-IQ-12604062.php

    California science fair project tying race, IQ sparks outcry

    SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — A Northern California school district is investigating how a science project correlating low intelligence with racial groups was on full display at a science fair, where it drew outrage from some students, parents and staff.

    The project by a Sacramento high school student enrolled in an elite magnet program, titled "Race and IQ," questioned whether certain races lack the intelligence for the program's academically challenging coursework.

    The Sacramento Bee, which published the story Saturday, did not speak to the student at C.K. McClatchy High School and is not identifying the minor. The project was on view with others Monday as part of an annual science fair but was removed Wednesday after complaints.

    Sacramento City Unified School District Superintendent Jorge Aguilar on Saturday released a video statement noting his own struggles as a minority and saying racially insensitive language will not be tolerated.

    "Yes, we'll respect freedom of speech. But we will also uphold our duty to limit speech that is likely to cause disruption to our students." He said. "No student should ever be made to feel that their race has anything to do with their ability to succeed."

    On Thursday, school Principal Peter Lambert sent an email to parents saying that the school is taking the incident seriously and implementing appropriate measures to provide an inclusive environment.

    Some people outraged by the racially charged project say it points to the larger problem: the lack of racial and ethnic diversity in the school's elite Humanities and International Studies program.
    The program, which was designed to promote cultural awareness and sensitivity, enrolls about 500 students. They include a dozen African American students, 80 Latino students and about 100 Asian American students, according to data provided by the district.

    "I think that a lot of people, especially of color, are really hurt and upset by this," said Chrysanthe Vidal, an African-American senior who is in the program.

    The student tested his race and intelligence hypothesis by having a handful of unidentified teens of various racial and ethnic backgrounds take an online intelligence test.

    His report concluded that the lower average IQs "of blacks, Southeast Asians, and non-white Hispanics" means they were not as likely as "non-Hispanic whites and Northeast Asians" to get into the academically rigorous program. He said the test results justified the racial imbalance in the program.

     

    Galileo is sanctioned by the Church. “And yet it moves.”

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    • Agree: res
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  117. Neoconned says:

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/20/facebook-posts/facebook-post-says-less-2-percent-illegals-are-pic/

    Only three percent of illegal immigrants work in agriculture and related sectors of the economy per Pew Hispanic Center….

    Meaning, you could deport 96% of them AND THEIR ANCHOR KIDS and the crops would NOT rot on the vine… meanwhile where are they working? Construction….

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pew-72-of-illegals-have-jobs-biggest-in-construction/article/2617560

    My coworker Bryan lost BOTH of his previous construction related trades…. roofing and insulation prep due to competition from Spanish speakers. So now he’s making minimum wage in fast food.

    I used to be associated with the local stagehand union here and I’d work for them on occasion. We union types have a term for these ppl…SCABS….

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  118. @Jack D
    Why weren't they socially corrupting in the past? The # of braceros peaked at 445K in 1956 (enough to pick a lot of "cotton" since total agricultural labor today is only 750K) yet 1956 is not remembered as a socially corrupt time.

    If there was any social corruption, it was on the American side with employers cheating the braceros on pay knowing that they were exploitable. Any modern bracero program would have to be carefully structured so as to make bracero employment truly a last resort so that "crops don't rot in the field" and not just cheap exploitable labor for corporate interests. If you make the bracero labor cheaper than American labor employers will opt for the cheaper labor every time. If it is really an issue of not being able to get people and not just a way to save $ then they shouldn't mind paying braceros the same as Americans.

    The corruption of the bracero program was examined in the 1949 film “Border Incident”, starring special agent Ricardo Montalban, George Murphy, and Howard DaSilva. It was directed by Anthony Mann. Pretty engaging stuff for its time.

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  119. Neoconned says:
    @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    I floated the idea a few yrs ago online to some white South African friends and acquaintances that they should come to California or America period to pick crops…

    Hell, a lot of the woman would probably get offered marriage proposals from American men & they could get citizenship

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  120. Redman says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter
    By far the stupidest thing I’ve done as an adult was voting for George W. Bush. Al Gore represented the Bill Clinton moderate side of the Democratic Party, which was actually pretty good for the country. (The problem with Clinton was he couldn’t keep his pants on and he never met a donor he wouldn’t accept money from.)

    A Gore presidency would have prevented the insanity of W’s war in Iraq. And it would have kept moderates from going extinct in the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party of 2018 is literally and proudly anti-American and is pulling half the country in that direction.

    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Sure, pro-war feeling against Afghanistan, at least as far as bombing Taliban bases and going after Osama bin Laden, but why pro-war feeling against Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11?
    , @njguy73

    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.
     
    How do you know 9/11 would have happened on Gore's watch as well?
    , @ben tillman

    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country propaganda from the media.
     
    It wasn't pro-war feeling; it was pro-war propaganda.
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  121. Thea says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter
    By far the stupidest thing I’ve done as an adult was voting for George W. Bush. Al Gore represented the Bill Clinton moderate side of the Democratic Party, which was actually pretty good for the country. (The problem with Clinton was he couldn’t keep his pants on and he never met a donor he wouldn’t accept money from.)

    A Gore presidency would have prevented the insanity of W’s war in Iraq. And it would have kept moderates from going extinct in the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party of 2018 is literally and proudly anti-American and is pulling half the country in that direction.

    I’m not sure Gore would have had the backbone to stand down the warmongers.

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    • Replies: @Redman
    Nor the interest. His core constituency were never the folks concerned with peace.
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  122. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    I respect your knowledge of this subject, because it is greater than mine; however, it sounds like economics -- which is not a real science. Blanket statements like "technology increases the demand for people" are ridiculous, but they are staples of econ speak.

    Besides, I did not say "technology." I said automation.

    Certainly technology increases the complexity of the human world and lends itself to more humans and more kinds of activity. Automation is a particular kind of technology that replaces human activity.

    What about a balanced system, not a static one and not one that must grow forever until some Malthusian limit is reached or some overpopulated hell is created? The whole notion that all business must perpetually grow is absurd on a finite planet.

    My country had 200 million people when I was growing up. Now it has 330 million, and it is not better. Ask anyone my age and they will tell you.

    Seek optima, not maxima.

    I’m not advocating for more people, I’m just pointing out that technology – and automation, which is part and parcel of technology – doesn’t lead to lower demand for people. It’s counter-intuitive. It is indeed absurd for business and technology to perpetually grow on a finite planet, which is why business and technology are pushing beyond this planet into space, where it increase the demand for people even more.

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  123. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Why weren’t they socially corrupting in the past?”

    As someone who, though unwittingly, participated in the resulting annual people smuggling of workers from Mexico (many of these guys crossed-over and went back every year), it was socially corrupting and led to our current situation. It might not have been visible to the intellectual set and their literature (or TV). It wasn’t just a little socially corrupting, it had a widespread influence on the people at the top that you could call sort of a soft corruption. I imagine it’s pretty much like what’s at the top of much of Latin America. (A time or two we’d go down and make arrangements with various “patrones”). An ironic thing was that a lot of the large employers of such labor in Texas became established in Texas when they moved west after the Civil War. Maybe they had the last laugh, because they found another source of very cheap labor.

    Some in the US might not care if the US comes to resemble Latin America. It’s likely they they don’t have very widespread experience.

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  124. @Harry Baldwin
    [Bush's] reasoning is that Muslim would come here be bowled over by our freedoms then go back to the Middle East to agitate for change.

    I believe Steve has mentioned Sayyid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, who came to America, attended a small teacher's college in the Midwest, and left seething with hatred at America's decadence and depravity. Some of his observations:

    The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs – and she shows all this and does not hide it.

    The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. "Jazz" music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other.

    This primitiveness can be seen in the spectacle of the f ans as they follow a game of football, played in the rough American style . . . . The sight of the fans as they follow this game, or watch boxing matches or bloody, monstrous wrestling matches . . . is one of animal excitement born of their love for hardcore violence. Their lack of attention to the rules and sportsmanship to the extent that they are enthralled with the flowing blood and crushed limbs, crying loudly, everyone cheering for his team. Destroy his head. Crush his ribs. Beat him to a pulp.This spectacle leaves no room for doubt as to the primitiveness of the feelings of those who are enamored with muscular strength and desire it.

    In summary, anything that requires a touch of elegance is not for the American, even haircuts! For there was not one instance in which I had a haircut there when I did not return home to even with my own hands what the barber had wrought, and fix what the barber had ruined with his awful taste.
     
    https://archive.org/stream/SayyidQutb/The%20America%20I%20have%20seen_djvu.txt

    And remember, this was in the late ’40′s, when social norms were tame compared to today. So, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood was pissed off at too many bad hair days and decided to get even with America? If only our barbers had cut his hair the way he wanted, modern Middle East terrorism would never have happened.

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    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    No telling what Sayyid would have thought of a place like Disneyland. Some of the animals that Islam considers to be cursed and unclean being given prominent places as popular entertaining educators of children.

    Bad haircut and then a giant mouse and talking dogs? Too much for one person to handle.

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  125. Not Raul says:

    Third Wave Capitalism in action: replacing expensive, capital-intensive cotton-picking machines with cheap, disposable cotton-picking “machines”.

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  126. @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    “In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.”

    Hold it, hold it. Before repeating another Con. Inc. Kool-Aid talking point about W’s supposed intelligence that the MSM never cottoned on to, post Vietnam period, when exactly did W. display signs of legitimate intelligence? Every business venture he attempted failed, and, he basically relied on his family’s connections to help bail him out. How exactly has he had to ever work hard for what he was given?

    Maybe, the reason W. looked, sounded, walked and talked like an idiot is because….

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  127. notanon says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Jack, Canada, as left wing looney as they are, does that. Farm workers come in, without family, work the fields, check deposited in bank account, withdraw cash when you leave. Stipend paid for your living expenses. Sounds great to me.

    it’s obviously stupid but greedy sociopaths are genetically incapable of understanding why

    - it lowers average current productivity
    - it prevents innovation which leads to lower future productivity
    - it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on housing costs which leads to squeezed disposable income and stagnating demand

    the only sensible solution to low productivity (and therefore low paid) work is technology that increases the productivity (and therefore wages)

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Robots who pick strawberries - wonderful, fantastic.

    Temporary foreign workers who pick strawberries - bad, evil.

    I don't get it.
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  128. Luke Lea says:

    Drove through the Mississippi Delta last October on a road trip, intending to show an old friend what real Southern rural poverty looks like. But couldn’t find it. All the rural shacks I remember from my youth were gone. In fact there were no people. Greenville, Mississippi downtown was boarded up. But out in the fields were the biggest tractors and the most humongous pieces of farm machinery I had ever seen, things that must have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars apiece. It was big ag as far as the eye could see.

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  129. @notanon

    Are the elites just communists who hold a vague sense that human nature will change and everyone will share in automated abundance?
     
    It's a problem inherent in capitalism. For any individual business driving down wages leads to increased profits but if they all do it then no one has any spending money leading to economic stagnation - which leads to business wanting more cheap labor to counter the stagnation which leads to more stagnation etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

    We're in this downward spiral now and have been since the banking mafia fully corrupted the media-political class.

    Capitalism requires a political class who recognize this inherent logic and actively seeks to prevent it.

    We need a new Henry Ford to bring back the modern equivalent of his Five Dollar Day and build Flying Saucers for Everybody.

    The saucers will be built by robots, of course, but New Henry will pay big money to his human experts in robot design, engineering and maintenance. And a new political class will End Child Tax Credits.

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    • Replies: @George
    What was going on in 1914 that let Ford earn such profits?
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  130. George says:

    Hey, iSteve. You got it bass ackward and upside down. They don’t come here to pick our cotton. They come here so they don’t have to pick their cotton.

    Working flat out – the child labour behind your Egyptian cotton sheets

    They work 10-hour shifts in 40C heat for 20 pence a day. Their job? Picking the cotton that makes the world’s finest bed linen. Dan McDougall reports on the scandal of Egypt’s child labourers

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/jun/08/childprotection.humanrights

    Or perhaps they come here because they can read the writing on the wall, and they don’t want to be there when the people who pick their cotton start shooting AKs and RPGs.

    BTW, Uzbek Uber drivers are running over Argentine tourists here so they don’t have to pick cotton in Uzbekistan. To be honest I don’t think I would want to pick Uzbek cotton either.

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  131. George says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    We need a new Henry Ford to bring back the modern equivalent of his Five Dollar Day and build Flying Saucers for Everybody.

    The saucers will be built by robots, of course, but New Henry will pay big money to his human experts in robot design, engineering and maintenance. And a new political class will End Child Tax Credits.

    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/5-Dollar-Day-Headline.jpg
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2593/3949834600_0a7487f402_b.jpg

    What was going on in 1914 that let Ford earn such profits?

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The evil War he preached against on his peace cruise.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    He was transforming the automobile from a plaything for the rich to affordable transportation and freedom for a growing middle class. In other words, he was transforming the world into the one we take for granted today -- and paying his own employees enough to participate in it.
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  132. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group…”

    Is Carlyle the biggest private equity firm? They seem to often be ex senior US government people who specialize in getting rich foreign investors such as Saudi princes, various national pension funds, various county’s national banks, and such, to invest in taking US companies private. Often these foreign investors being the sort of people who have lots of dealings with the US government and also need advice on where to park lots of money. (All that money sloshing around has to go somewhere.) Carlyle would have thought Bush could have been a player in this space, if nothing else for his “Rolodex”, but apparently not.

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  133. ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Former President George W. Bush said on Thursday that … “Americans don’t want to pick cotton at 105 degrees (Fahrenheit), but there are people who want put food on their family’s tables and are willing to do that. We ought to say thank you and welcome them.”


    “What could possibly go wrong?”

    I think I see what you did there.

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  134. Art Deco says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Along with Jack's great reply (as usual), I am replying differently based what is an erroneous premise of yours. Those 3 guys, and the countless other politicians screwing us over aren't doing that just because they don't understand simple stuff (like your 0.23% of the workforce in agriculture statement). They just aren't that stupid, as I guess you can determine for yourself by reading the lots of comments and links about it herein.

    Imagine the few, but rich and powerful big ag guys that want the cheap labor. Do you think your future vote, or even 1,000 of those on unz or other pretty bright people will override even one of these guys? These guy's positions were not based on the votes from us - it's the donation money that matters more to them, for 2 reasons:

    1) If they can manage to keep office by saying a few pro-American things, threatening to vote NO (or actually voting NO, once the deal has been made to get the bill passed) once in a while, then these politicians will have lots of money coming. Some of the donation money will end up in these "charitable" "foundations" that seem to have lots left over after the campaigns. Also, for some reason these guys seem to get paid 1/4 or 1/2 million a pop to make speeches later on. Their books sell really well too, even if nobody buys them.

    2) This is the main thing. You figure the votes are the be-all-to-end-all, but that would be correct if America had a voting public of intelligent, wise, and informed people. Not-a-gonna-happen, in the words of one of those guys. So, the 1,000, 10,000, whatever, informed votes get overpowered by the uninformed ones of the people that watch the TV commercials that the donors have paid for. "Hey, he sounds like a regular guy. Plus his hair makes him very handsome. I saw an elephant in the background - that's good, right?"

    Imagine the few, but rich and powerful big ag guys that want the cheap labor. Do you think your future vote, or even 1,000 of those on unz or other pretty bright people will override even one of these guys? These guy’s positions were not based on the votes from us – it’s the donation money that matters more to them, for 2 reasons:

    He’s retired and hasn’t run for office in 13 years.

    John McCain was so insistent on amnesty that he got himself in dutch with Arizona voters; his last two electoral campaigns were completely discretionary and ill-advised and the most recent one could have been financed by his wife if he collected not one dollar in contributions. Agribusiness doesn’t appear on the list of the top sectors supporting his candidacies throughout his career.

    https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00006424&cycle=CAREER

    Financial sector, law firms, real estate, health care….

    I’m sure pleasing donors is what Mitch McConnell does. You can’t explain Bush’s continued advocacy that way, nor Pig-head McCain’s.

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  135. @Buzz Mohawk
    I respect your knowledge of this subject, because it is greater than mine; however, it sounds like economics -- which is not a real science. Blanket statements like "technology increases the demand for people" are ridiculous, but they are staples of econ speak.

    Besides, I did not say "technology." I said automation.

    Certainly technology increases the complexity of the human world and lends itself to more humans and more kinds of activity. Automation is a particular kind of technology that replaces human activity.

    What about a balanced system, not a static one and not one that must grow forever until some Malthusian limit is reached or some overpopulated hell is created? The whole notion that all business must perpetually grow is absurd on a finite planet.

    My country had 200 million people when I was growing up. Now it has 330 million, and it is not better. Ask anyone my age and they will tell you.

    Seek optima, not maxima.

    Back in the 80s, it was the conservative “pro-business” politicians/intelligentsia who fought for extreme “pro-growth” policies. It was the liberals who fought tax cuts, deregulation, and union breaking. The liberals lost and we ended up with the current system we have.

    Later on, even the liberals (under Clinton) compromised and “moved to the right” on economic issues. So instead of having one “pro-business” party, we now had 2 “pro-business” parties.

    Similar events happened in the UK, under Thatcher, Major, and Blair.

    This current state of affairs didn’t just happen overnight. It’s the product of 4 decades of “pro-business” policies.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    Liberals wanted open borders for the voters.

    Banking mafia wanted open borders for the cheap labor.
    , @Art Deco
    This current state of affairs didn’t just happen overnight. It’s the product of 4 decades of “pro-business” policies.

    Organized labor accounted for about 1/3 of the private-sector workforce in 1955 and 9% in 2000. That is, the ratio of unionized to non-union workers went from 0.5 to 0.1, an 80% reduction. People like Robert Kuttner 35 years ago were plumping for amendments to federal labor law because extant labor law which had been sufficient to organize a third of the workforce during the period running from 1930 to 1955 was failing to maintain the union census. The unions have prospered in one endeavour: organizing the public sector (because the Democratic Party found that to be in their interest and the Republicans lacked the cojones to reverse such policies where they were in place). Trade unionism in this country was successful in the manufacturing sector, extractive industries, and in public utilities. In construction and transportation, it was shot through with corruption. In general services, it's been a failure. What sectors were rising and what were declining throughout that period?
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  136. @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    This is not a good idea.

    Why shouldn’t American workers have the right to do jobs in America? What’s the point of country if workers get shoved aside in favor of foreigners?

    Jamaicans have a country. We have a country. American workers should always have the right to any jobs created inside the borders of their country. This includes not just high-wage professionals, but even lower-wage blue collar people.

    Back in the old days (like the 70s), it used to be common for American-born migrant laborers (many of whom were Scots-Irish from the South) to travel around the country and do itinerant blue collar work. When the foreign worker wave began hitting our shores in the late 70s and early 80s, these people began to be pushed out of the job market. It’s not surprising that over the last 4 decades, wages (inflation-adjusted) and employment opportunities have declined for workers (especially blue collar workers).

    Back in the 50s, there was a labor program that brought in many foreign workers from Mexico. Bracero. That program was ended in the 60s due to labor abuses. Any guest worker program (Bracero, H2, H1, J1) will end up being abused by employers and used to economically dispossess American workingmen.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Certain jobs are inherently crappy jobs that American workers shouldn't have to do. Even the least trained ones should have better jobs. Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one and doesn't need to pick strawberries all day. What difference does it make if strawberries get picked by the strawberry picking robot or by temporary foreign workers? Either way American humans are not going to be doing that work. If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone - in part the farmer but in part the consumer.
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  137. @Jack D
    I see a lot of benefits to this type of program. You are not permanently stripping 3rd world countries of their most hard working and ambitious people. Instead you are bringing them back home AND equipping them with a little capital and a little exposure to a better (American) way of life where people use indoor plumbing and don't litter the parks, etc. and the cops are not all corrupt. Maybe a little of this will rub off on the temporary workers. And knowing that moving to the US is not an option, maybe they will try to make their own countries less shit-hole like instead.

    BUT this has to be accompanied by a clear set of rules and the political will to enforce the rules so that temporary really means temporary.

    Your ideas have already been implemented in the UAE and Saipan. If you want to see what such a system looks like on a large scale, go there.

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  138. Pat Boyle says:
    @cthulhu
    "Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial."

    They already do this. The latest cotton harvesters cost $700k, but they automatically pick the cotton, strip the bolls from the rest of the plant, and bundle the results up in a large bale ready to be fed into a gin. The farming machine manufacturer John Deere is a major owner in a commercial differential GPS service, which for a fee will enable a commercial GPS receiver to improve its accuracy to a foot or so and enable precision control of motorized farming equipment - they aren't fully autonomous yet but that day is on the horizon.

    The place where strong backs are still needed in farming is in caring for and picking fragile fruits - strawberries, grapes, apples, etc. But if we can hold off the calls for cheap immigrants to do these jobs, the economic incentives to invent the machines to substantially automate these fields (pun intended) will work. There is already a lot of research in how a machine can detect whether a strawberry is the proper ripeness to be picked and how to only pick the ripe berries; it's only a matter of time...

    Apparently I speculated on a future that is already here. Maybe that’s the way to go. That way my speculative visions of the future will be more accurate.

    I guess I don’t very know much about farm machinery. I watch Jay Leno’s YouTube videos all the time but he only focuses on cars. The only time he talks tractors is when he does a segment on Lamborghinis.

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  139. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    Cotton generates a 20 billion in exports annually. That’s a good 1% of all US exports. The cotton industry should be allowed to recruit more workers.
     
    It's 1% of US exports because the banking mafia looted the US manufacturing base and moved it offshore.

    It’s 1% of US exports because the banking mafia looted the US manufacturing base and moved it offshore.

    They did nothing of the kind. Manufacturing employs fewer people in the past and accounts for a lower share of output. However, in real terms, manufacturing income is 40% higher than it was in 1970. (And, while we’re at it, neither investment nor commercial banks are in a position to loot other industries or move production abroad. They can merely finance projects or refuse to finance them. )

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    • Replies: @notanon
    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    #


    And, while we’re at it, neither investment nor commercial banks are in a position to loot other industries or move production abroad...
     

    ...They can merely finance projects or refuse to finance them. )
     
    yes, apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier and bribing the political class to remove tariff protection on domestic industry their inventing of junk bonds as a way of forcing corporations to off-shore or risk takeover was a third critically important factor.
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  140. @Anon
    The first Briton

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vt2E3F4xlWo/maxresdefault.jpg

    Is that Gaddafi?

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  141. @Yan Shen
    Didn't racist whites basically force black slaves to pick cotton on plantations for a number of decades? Imagine if uh John Derbyshire had been around back in those days endlessly telling everyone how on average blacks were more violent and less intelligent relative to members of other ethnic groups, but that white Americans should still be civic minded and treat African Americans as fellow citizens and human beings.

    I think this would make a great plot for a Hollywood movie. While 2018 PC America seems to despise the message the Derb brings to the table, when he travels back in time a couple hundred years, John Derbyshire becomes one of the most progressive and woke white Americans of his era and is forever remembered by history as a uh Good White. By going back and partially negating America's Original Sin, he also spares future generations of the country from an eternity of PC and black worship.

    The other movie idea I've thrown out before involves an alien invasion uniting John Derbyshire and his black counterpart Ta Nehisi Coates.

    (Derbyshire to Coates): "I never realized that when they cut you, you bleed too just like me."

    WTF does Derb have to do with this? Are you posting to the thread you intended?

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  142. @Anonymous
    What did he say in that interview to lead you to think he'd score 130-140 on an IQ test?

    Sarcasm.

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  143. tyrone says:
    @Anon
    The first Briton

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vt2E3F4xlWo/maxresdefault.jpg

    no,no,no, that’s the LAST briton!

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  144. Pat Boyle says:
    @JudgeSmails
    Pat, the guidance technology you envision for farm machinery has existed since the turn of the century. It has developed into a super accurate system that can guide various types of farming equipment across the fields.


    https://www.deere.com/en_US/corporate/our_company/news_and_media/press_releases/2016/agriculture/2016june1-starfire6000.page

    Of course, "driving" is only one part of operating a piece of farm equipment. An operator is needed to handle the the multiple functions and systems a particular machine has.

    As for W's woefully ignorant reference to "picking cotton at 105 degrees", he makes Poppy's fascination with bar code scanners back in the early 90's seem whimsical.

    My understanding of the whole bar code incident is that George the Elder had been primed about the scanner and made a fuss over it as a favor to the hosts. Of course since all of this is part of national politics it is essentially impossible to actually know the truth of the matter.

    What does that say about our society??

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I subscribed to a trade journal covering supermarket scanner technology in 1992 and that was their coverage of the Bush scanner incident: the salesman was explaining the various New Improved features of his state of the art scanner he was demonstrating, like being able to read bar codes that had been accidentally ripped, and the president was politely saying "Gee whiz" in response.
    , @Jack D
    That reporters are Democrat operatives with bylines (as Instapundit says)?

    If Barrack Obama had said the exact same thing, they would have written stories about how the Great Leader displayed an immediate grasp of bar coding technology.
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  145. notanon says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Back in the 80s, it was the conservative "pro-business" politicians/intelligentsia who fought for extreme "pro-growth" policies. It was the liberals who fought tax cuts, deregulation, and union breaking. The liberals lost and we ended up with the current system we have.

    Later on, even the liberals (under Clinton) compromised and "moved to the right" on economic issues. So instead of having one "pro-business" party, we now had 2 "pro-business" parties.

    Similar events happened in the UK, under Thatcher, Major, and Blair.

    This current state of affairs didn't just happen overnight. It's the product of 4 decades of "pro-business" policies.

    Liberals wanted open borders for the voters.

    Banking mafia wanted open borders for the cheap labor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    At this point, both liberals and conservatives are pro-cheap labor. Conservatives more so, but liberals are okay with all these guest worker programs (H1, H2, L1, J1, OPT, etc). You would've never seen them take such positions back in the early 90s. It's astonishing the changes we've seen.

    It really wasn't until the mid 90s when liberals realized that immigrant voters could be useful in taking control of the country. Before that, immigrants weren't that reliably Democratic.

    It was in the 70s/80s era that the Right learned to love immigrants, mostly due to their ability to boost economic growth and profits. In the mid 90s (around the time Pete Wilson became well known nationally), the left became very enamored of them. Not just because immigrants could be reliable vote banks, but also because the Democratic party was moving sharply to the economic right.

    Back in the 80s and early 90s, lots of Democrats (Harry Reid for example) were skeptical of immigration. Many voted against the 86 amnesty. Barbara Jordan (black Congresswoman) was a major voice for immigration restrictionism. Of course, there were anti-immigration right-wing Republicans too, like Pat Buchanan.

    Immigration restrictionism was suppressed for 20-25 years, then resurfaced under the Trump candidacy. However, this time, it's the Right that's supporting lower levels of migration.
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  146. @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    Steve’s title was great, “GW Bush: Immigrants should pick our own damn cotton”. It’s exactly the way W used to speechify. At least now W has moved on from “put food on my family”.

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  147. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Cotton picking machine: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-09/lessons-from-a-slow-motion-robot-takeover”

    A few extracts:

    “Lessons From a Slow-Motion Robot Takeover: Cotton harvesting is now dominated by machines. But it took decades to happen”. by Virginia Postrel, Bloomberg, February 9, 2018.

    …harvesting cotton seems like the easiest job in the world… chug along at four or five miles an hour, watching the giant machine’s bright yellow fingers… every few minutes a plastic-wrapped cylinder eight feet across plops out the back, holding as much as 5,000 pounds of cotton ready for the gin.

    …“This thing is just constantly moving,”… can harvest 100 to 120 acres a day… the previous generation… had to stop periodically to empty its basket… can also keep working in windy weather…

    …he no longer needs to hire a half dozen harvest workers to supplement his three full-time employees… Bringing in the harvest with his new setup takes only two people at a time… Full-timers handle everything, and the machine can run all night if needed…

    a“I figured out this new machine, it’s displacing at least 1,000 people,”

    …How to help displaced workers is a hard problem…”

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  148. @Redman
    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.

    Sure, pro-war feeling against Afghanistan, at least as far as bombing Taliban bases and going after Osama bin Laden, but why pro-war feeling against Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Redman
    I’m not saying it makes sense but those were the times. How soon we forget.

    Why do you think John Kerry and HRC voted in favor of war with Iraq? Because that’s what the damn polls were saying was the wise bet.

    Gore was not the man to stop the rush to
    War with Iraq since he was nothing but a poll watcher like the Clintons.
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  149. Art Deco says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Back in the 80s, it was the conservative "pro-business" politicians/intelligentsia who fought for extreme "pro-growth" policies. It was the liberals who fought tax cuts, deregulation, and union breaking. The liberals lost and we ended up with the current system we have.

    Later on, even the liberals (under Clinton) compromised and "moved to the right" on economic issues. So instead of having one "pro-business" party, we now had 2 "pro-business" parties.

    Similar events happened in the UK, under Thatcher, Major, and Blair.

    This current state of affairs didn't just happen overnight. It's the product of 4 decades of "pro-business" policies.

    This current state of affairs didn’t just happen overnight. It’s the product of 4 decades of “pro-business” policies.

    Organized labor accounted for about 1/3 of the private-sector workforce in 1955 and 9% in 2000. That is, the ratio of unionized to non-union workers went from 0.5 to 0.1, an 80% reduction. People like Robert Kuttner 35 years ago were plumping for amendments to federal labor law because extant labor law which had been sufficient to organize a third of the workforce during the period running from 1930 to 1955 was failing to maintain the union census. The unions have prospered in one endeavour: organizing the public sector (because the Democratic Party found that to be in their interest and the Republicans lacked the cojones to reverse such policies where they were in place). Trade unionism in this country was successful in the manufacturing sector, extractive industries, and in public utilities. In construction and transportation, it was shot through with corruption. In general services, it’s been a failure. What sectors were rising and what were declining throughout that period?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    From the 30s through the late 70s, pro-redistributionist policies put significant downward economic pressure on the wealthy (investors, entrepreneurs, execs, traders). The 70s were an especially difficult era for the wealthy, but prosperity for the working masses. In the tight labor market, wages had climbed so high that the profit margins were absolutely horrendous. So, in the late 70s, business interests pushed back and began to co-opt America's politicians and media.

    By the early 80s, the business interests were back in control of Washington DC. They successfully pushed for large-scale deregulation, tax cuts, and loosening of controls over banking (remember S&Ls?). After Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers, businesses took that action as a greenlight to obliterate their own unions.

    During the early/mid 90s, after the election of Bill Clinton, the business interests fully took over the Democratic party. When Clinton/Gore pushed NAFTA over the opposition of the unions, it marked the end of the unions as a dominant faction in the Democratic party.

    The UK (under Thatcher, Major, and Blair) followed a very similar trajectory. Thatcher was also very pro-business and crushed unions. Blair pushed the labor party in a more pro-business direction amenable to British business interests.

    Other Anglo countries (Canada, NZ, Australia) have repeated this pattern. Continental Euro countries have been more resistant, but (to some extent) even they've gone in a much pro-business direction.
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  150. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    It’s 1% of US exports because the banking mafia looted the US manufacturing base and moved it offshore.

    They did nothing of the kind. Manufacturing employs fewer people in the past and accounts for a lower share of output. However, in real terms, manufacturing income is 40% higher than it was in 1970. (And, while we're at it, neither investment nor commercial banks are in a position to loot other industries or move production abroad. They can merely finance projects or refuse to finance them. )

    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    #

    And, while we’re at it, neither investment nor commercial banks are in a position to loot other industries or move production abroad…

    …They can merely finance projects or refuse to finance them. )

    yes, apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier and bribing the political class to remove tariff protection on domestic industry their inventing of junk bonds as a way of forcing corporations to off-shore or risk takeover was a third critically important factor.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    Serial reduction in tariffs began in 1933. The ratio of tariff revenues to import values stood at 0.24 in 1932 and fell to 0.05 in 1964. Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates - raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.

    https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/docs/w21782.pdf



    apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier

    Bankers don't make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does. No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector. Conceivably, it might speed up plant closings as takeover artists have an assets manager's mentality.
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  151. @Pat Boyle
    My understanding of the whole bar code incident is that George the Elder had been primed about the scanner and made a fuss over it as a favor to the hosts. Of course since all of this is part of national politics it is essentially impossible to actually know the truth of the matter.

    What does that say about our society??

    I subscribed to a trade journal covering supermarket scanner technology in 1992 and that was their coverage of the Bush scanner incident: the salesman was explaining the various New Improved features of his state of the art scanner he was demonstrating, like being able to read bar codes that had been accidentally ripped, and the president was politely saying “Gee whiz” in response.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    You subscribe to supermarket technology trade journals?
    , @Not Raul
    We worked for the same company.

    What’s your take on slotting fees?

    I think that they should be legal (as a way for lower margin supermarkets to share risk with higher margin manufacturers, and as a credible signal that the manufacturer has confidence in the product and is willing to advertise in the future) but plenty of people go the other way.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Right, but the lying MSM spun it as Bush the out of touch elitist, and that story is now the new Truth. As Instapundit says, always bring your own camera crew.
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  152. @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    Yeah, sure. W “hid his intelligence” so well that he never found it again. Face it: If W had a brain, he would take it out and play with it.

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  153. @whorefinder
    Fake story.

    Corporate boards don't do any real work. Most members are appointed for show, to have a big name to pay so that if the big name's guys oppose the company the big name can talk them down. Many people are on multiple corporate boards as it's just a huge bribe scam. W.'s appointment was no different.

    So this sounds like Rubenstein just using W's departure as an excuse to rip on him.

    I really doubt that anyone would go out of the way to make an enemy of the son of one of America’s most powerful families. Rubenstein actually has a reputation for being a very personable man who gets along with both Republicans and Democrats. Plenty of Republicans have been on the Caryle board.
    Rubenstein is a major socialite among the power players of the NY-DC axis. It’d be out of character for him to badmouth Bush.

    It’s strange that Rubenstein would tell Bush to leave the private equity industry. The most likely reason was that Bush demonstrated such an extreme level of incompetence and laziness, that he was embarrassing the company.

    Corporate boards may not expect much work, but they expect you to represent the company well. Bush, apparently, represented the Carlyle Group about as well as he represented America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whorefinder

    I really doubt that anyone would go out of the way to make an enemy of the son of one of America’s most powerful families
     
    Were you around from 2000-2008? Or for that matter, in 2016, when the Bushes went from party bosses and heir apparent-producers to cast offs and out out power?

    Rubenstein is just virtue signalling. It remains hip to hate Bush on both the Left and amongst Trumpers on the right, as well as the more libertarian types. This story sounds like a whole lotta b.s. Likely, Rubenstein didn't like W.'s personality; most of the Left hated W.'s folksy manner, just as they hated Palin for hers. In contrast, Bill Clinton's absolutely fake southern good ol' boy charm turns them on.
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  154. @Art Deco
    This current state of affairs didn’t just happen overnight. It’s the product of 4 decades of “pro-business” policies.

    Organized labor accounted for about 1/3 of the private-sector workforce in 1955 and 9% in 2000. That is, the ratio of unionized to non-union workers went from 0.5 to 0.1, an 80% reduction. People like Robert Kuttner 35 years ago were plumping for amendments to federal labor law because extant labor law which had been sufficient to organize a third of the workforce during the period running from 1930 to 1955 was failing to maintain the union census. The unions have prospered in one endeavour: organizing the public sector (because the Democratic Party found that to be in their interest and the Republicans lacked the cojones to reverse such policies where they were in place). Trade unionism in this country was successful in the manufacturing sector, extractive industries, and in public utilities. In construction and transportation, it was shot through with corruption. In general services, it's been a failure. What sectors were rising and what were declining throughout that period?

    From the 30s through the late 70s, pro-redistributionist policies put significant downward economic pressure on the wealthy (investors, entrepreneurs, execs, traders). The 70s were an especially difficult era for the wealthy, but prosperity for the working masses. In the tight labor market, wages had climbed so high that the profit margins were absolutely horrendous. So, in the late 70s, business interests pushed back and began to co-opt America’s politicians and media.

    By the early 80s, the business interests were back in control of Washington DC. They successfully pushed for large-scale deregulation, tax cuts, and loosening of controls over banking (remember S&Ls?). After Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers, businesses took that action as a greenlight to obliterate their own unions.

    During the early/mid 90s, after the election of Bill Clinton, the business interests fully took over the Democratic party. When Clinton/Gore pushed NAFTA over the opposition of the unions, it marked the end of the unions as a dominant faction in the Democratic party.

    The UK (under Thatcher, Major, and Blair) followed a very similar trajectory. Thatcher was also very pro-business and crushed unions. Blair pushed the labor party in a more pro-business direction amenable to British business interests.

    Other Anglo countries (Canada, NZ, Australia) have repeated this pattern. Continental Euro countries have been more resistant, but (to some extent) even they’ve gone in a much pro-business direction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The 70s were an especially difficult era for the wealthy, but prosperity for the working masses. In the tight labor market, wages had climbed so high that the profit margins were absolutely horrendous. So, in the late 70s, business interests pushed back and began to co-opt America’s politicians and media.

    I take it you're fairly young (or you slept through that decade). The era was difficult for the wealthy because real share prices were declining and people who'd bought bonds prior to 1966 saw their real value severely vitiated by the unanticipated inflation which erupted during the period running from 1966 to 1982. Also, capital gains taxes assessed liability on changes in nominal prices (which was and is absurd). Working people who prospered in that era did so because they took out fixed-rate mortgages prior to 1966. Those who had bought savings bonds or had their money in savings banks (whose interest rates were fixed by law) saw their assets lose value. The chronic inflation generated a great deal of discontent, as did the effects of cack-handed government policy meant to contain it (gas lines, for instance). Also, there was around 1970 a reset in levels of economic dynamism. Real production per capita grew at a rate of about 2.3% per year (on average) from 1947 to 1970, and about 2.0% per year from 1970 to 1991. Throughout the period running from 1960 to 1979, the natural unemployment rate was increasing, making it increasingly costly to attempt contain the inflation. You also had declining quality of life in realms not captured by production statistics (crime rates, educational performance). In addition, there were inter-generational issues you hadn't seen prior to 1955 and really haven't seen much of since 1990. There were ancillary matters which also irritated people, such the quality of workmanship in various realms. I'm remembering a late-middle aged technician from Rochester Telephone showing up at our house in 1979 and looking over some cheap work done by another tech a few years earlier and saying, "the telephone company I joined 25 years ago was not the company it is today". It's the sort of comment you expected to hear in that era. (See also, the Chevy Chevette and Ford Pinto).

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  155. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    Is this how Coast Jews actually think about flyover country?

    Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    OK, that’s actually true.

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  156. Jack D says:
    @notanon
    it's obviously stupid but greedy sociopaths are genetically incapable of understanding why

    - it lowers average current productivity
    - it prevents innovation which leads to lower future productivity
    - it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on housing costs which leads to squeezed disposable income and stagnating demand

    the only sensible solution to low productivity (and therefore low paid) work is technology that increases the productivity (and therefore wages)

    Robots who pick strawberries – wonderful, fantastic.

    Temporary foreign workers who pick strawberries – bad, evil.

    I don’t get it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    If you thought of America as a country you would get it.
    , @education realist
    You don't have to pay a fortune to educate robots, much less pay the various support payments they and their kin shall require.

    There's no such thing as temporary.
    , @snorlax
    How's France doing with those temporary Algerians? Or Germany with their temporary Turks? How'd the temporary Visigoths work out for the Romans? Were the temporary Romans good for the Jews?

    Here in Taxachusetts I'm paying temporary income tax (1916), temporary sales tax (1966, since raised in temporary increments from 3 to 6.5%), and temporary tolls on the Mass Pike (1957, and first scheduled to be taken down when the initial 20-year bond issue was paid off in 1975, then when the Turnpike Extension 20-year bonds were paid off in 1984, then when the Big Dig 10-year bonds were paid off in 2001, and most recently when the Big Dig supplemental 20-year bonds were paid off in 2017).

    Ask me again when libs are proposing robot citizenship.
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  157. @International Jew
    He's an idiot, yeah, but compared to Trump he's Adlai Stevenson.

    No, he isn’t. Compared to Trump, he’s still the same jug-eared mongoloid he always was.

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  158. Pat Boyle says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I subscribed to a trade journal covering supermarket scanner technology in 1992 and that was their coverage of the Bush scanner incident: the salesman was explaining the various New Improved features of his state of the art scanner he was demonstrating, like being able to read bar codes that had been accidentally ripped, and the president was politely saying "Gee whiz" in response.

    You subscribe to supermarket technology trade journals?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Steve just read them for the cartoons.
    , @notanon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tcXblWojdM
    , @Autochthon
    Steve worked for many years doing research and analysis for marketing consumer goods; he was especially involved with such goings-on in supermarkets.
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  159. notanon says:

    I don’t get it.

    yes i know.

    labor will naturally flow from lower productivity jobs (lower wages) to higher productivity jobs (higher wages).

    this is good as increased average productivity is the sole source of prosperity.

    however employers at the lower productivity end want to survive and so will try to import cheaper labor to compensate – this is bad.

    the only sensible long-term solution to this conflict of interest between the nation as a whole and employers of low productivity labor is for the state to recognize the conflict of interest and while preventing the importation of cheap labor also put research funds into increasing the productivity of those jobs so they require fewer but better paid workers.

    win-win

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  160. @Pat Boyle
    You subscribe to supermarket technology trade journals?

    Steve just read them for the cartoons.

    Read More
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  161. notanon says:
    @Pat Boyle
    You subscribe to supermarket technology trade journals?

    Read More
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  162. @rogue-one
    OT:

    High school science fair project questioning African American intelligence sparks outrage

    http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article199440204.html

    Gen Z: The 4chan Generation

    What a madman. I’m surprised he didn’t also take skull measurements.

    Some of those outraged by the racially charged project say it points to a larger problem: the lack of ethnic diversity in the school’s elite HISP program.

    Yeah, that’s the takeaway here, isn’t it?

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  163. whorefinder says: • Website
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I really doubt that anyone would go out of the way to make an enemy of the son of one of America's most powerful families. Rubenstein actually has a reputation for being a very personable man who gets along with both Republicans and Democrats. Plenty of Republicans have been on the Caryle board.
    Rubenstein is a major socialite among the power players of the NY-DC axis. It'd be out of character for him to badmouth Bush.

    It's strange that Rubenstein would tell Bush to leave the private equity industry. The most likely reason was that Bush demonstrated such an extreme level of incompetence and laziness, that he was embarrassing the company.

    Corporate boards may not expect much work, but they expect you to represent the company well. Bush, apparently, represented the Carlyle Group about as well as he represented America.

    I really doubt that anyone would go out of the way to make an enemy of the son of one of America’s most powerful families

    Were you around from 2000-2008? Or for that matter, in 2016, when the Bushes went from party bosses and heir apparent-producers to cast offs and out out power?

    Rubenstein is just virtue signalling. It remains hip to hate Bush on both the Left and amongst Trumpers on the right, as well as the more libertarian types. This story sounds like a whole lotta b.s. Likely, Rubenstein didn’t like W.’s personality; most of the Left hated W.’s folksy manner, just as they hated Palin for hers. In contrast, Bill Clinton’s absolutely fake southern good ol’ boy charm turns them on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Were you around from 2000-2008?
     
    Yes, I was actually. I recall from 2002-2004, the media projected Bush as "War President" on par with Winston Churchill. Rubenstein criticized Bush in the summer of 2003, when he was very popular due to his reponse to 9/11 and the (initially) successful Iraq War. Rubenstein had no reason to make those remarks at that time.

    Bush did finally decline in the popularity around 2005/2006. He sort of disappeared from 2008 through 2015, but he was resurrected in 2016. Over the last couple of years, his image has been rehabilitated. At this point, polls show even the majority of Democrats approve of him.

    This story sounds like a whole lotta b.s. Likely, Rubenstein didn’t like W.’s personality
     
    Bush's father served on Carlyle's board through 2002. So I doubt there was a falling out between the families that lead to W being fired. Most likely, Rubenstein (who made those remarks privately to a group of conference attendees) was genuinely offended at how poorly W. had represented his firm. Wall Street financiers are very image conscious (I know this from personal experience), so Bush's laziness and incompetence probably scandalized the firm at the time.

    If you hire the son of a former President to be on the board, he should at least look presentable and pretend to be qualified. If he's too much of a buffoon, it makes it way too obvious that the job is nothing more than a payoff. There's no plausible deniability anymore.

    What financial firm could honestly say that W is a man who can offer "strategic" advice on investment issues? At least with Romney's sons (who are mostly financiers), it's at least possible they got their jobs through being qualified.
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  164. mhowell says:

    Very cool video that takes me back to my youth in Blytheville, Arkansas. It takes a special kind of vocal shorthand to take a name like Blytheville and turn it into “Blah’-vul”. That’s how the locals have always pronounced it.
    I spent my junior high days in the 70′s living on the old AF base just north of town. It was abandoned twenty years ago and still lives on only as an eerie Google-earth shot. The school all us Air Force kids went to, Gosnell, was surrounded on three sides by cotton fields. Looks like that is still the same forty years later.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "It takes a special kind of vocal shorthand to take a name like Blytheville and turn it into “Blah’-vul”. "

    Trying to pronounce the word "Blytheville" automatically turns my enunciation over-precise into a sort of Christine Baranski-style Blyyyyythe-ville.

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  165. Not Raul says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I subscribed to a trade journal covering supermarket scanner technology in 1992 and that was their coverage of the Bush scanner incident: the salesman was explaining the various New Improved features of his state of the art scanner he was demonstrating, like being able to read bar codes that had been accidentally ripped, and the president was politely saying "Gee whiz" in response.

    We worked for the same company.

    What’s your take on slotting fees?

    I think that they should be legal (as a way for lower margin supermarkets to share risk with higher margin manufacturers, and as a credible signal that the manufacturer has confidence in the product and is willing to advertise in the future) but plenty of people go the other way.

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  166. Thomm says:

    This thread reveals how easily any menti0n of George W. Bush exposes how WN/KKK are really just Democrat ideologies.

    GWB had many flaws. But still..

    The fact that many people here prefer Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders over GWB exposes WN as a left-wing ideology.

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  167. @mhowell
    Very cool video that takes me back to my youth in Blytheville, Arkansas. It takes a special kind of vocal shorthand to take a name like Blytheville and turn it into "Blah'-vul". That's how the locals have always pronounced it.
    I spent my junior high days in the 70's living on the old AF base just north of town. It was abandoned twenty years ago and still lives on only as an eerie Google-earth shot. The school all us Air Force kids went to, Gosnell, was surrounded on three sides by cotton fields. Looks like that is still the same forty years later.

    “It takes a special kind of vocal shorthand to take a name like Blytheville and turn it into “Blah’-vul”. ”

    Trying to pronounce the word “Blytheville” automatically turns my enunciation over-precise into a sort of Christine Baranski-style Blyyyyythe-ville.

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  168. njguy73 says:
    @Redman
    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.

    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.

    How do you know 9/11 would have happened on Gore’s watch as well?

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    • Replies: @Redman
    You think it wouldn’t have? What are you basing that on, the inate brilliance of the DEM foreign policy during the Clinton?

    I’ve never even heard anyone insinuate that 9/11 wouldn’t have happened under Gore. On that issue the uni-party has been pretty consistent.

    That he might not have gone into Iraq is what people usually suggest, which I think makes no sense looking at past patterns.
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  169. @Jack D
    W was a scion of an old line WASP family that found himself growing up in good-old-boyland Midland, Texas. If he had tried speaking with a plummy accent like Kerry he would have been beaten to a pulp. In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence. Moreover, you learn that it is a good thing if your opponents misunderestimate you.

    The Leftist media is very shallow and superficial - what they think of as "intelligence" is really the ability to speak in a Mid-Atlantic accent and to spout academic jargon. There are plenty of Gender Studies professors who can do both flawlessly and whom I would not trust to run a hot dog stand let alone serve as POTUS.

    “In that kind of environment, you learn to hide your intelligence.”

    In that case, nailed it. But can one really learn to have that permanent deer-in-the-headlights look? Not to mention that goofy thing he did with the natives in Africa, or at the memorial in Dallas. That’s some Bob Denver as Gilligan level of Acting going on there. I scored higher on the AFOQT, so I guess that makes me Wiley Coyote.

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  170. njguy73 says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

     

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn't add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn't know "that much about the company" and "should do something else. "

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.
     
    It's amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world's most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he's not doing any real work.

    I don't think I've ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn't take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn't stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he’d be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Probably. I just can't see him in any type of management or professional position.
    , @Art Deco
    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he’d be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.

    He has degrees from Yale and Harvard Business School. That might over-predict his performance, but it's doubtful it would do it to that extent.
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  171. Jack D says:
    @Pat Boyle
    My understanding of the whole bar code incident is that George the Elder had been primed about the scanner and made a fuss over it as a favor to the hosts. Of course since all of this is part of national politics it is essentially impossible to actually know the truth of the matter.

    What does that say about our society??

    That reporters are Democrat operatives with bylines (as Instapundit says)?

    If Barrack Obama had said the exact same thing, they would have written stories about how the Great Leader displayed an immediate grasp of bar coding technology.

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  172. @AKAHorace
    From Poland, Unrelated but of interest:

    https://blogs.oxfam.org/en/blogs/18-02-01-children-remind-us-refugees-and-migrants-deserve-respect-us-all

    BBC’s R4 “Analysis” programme just had an hour of anti-Poland/Hungary stuff this evening. They are determined to poz Eastern Europe, and it always starts with the children.

    Talking of Oxfam, their staff are in the news over here for holding orgies in Haiti. And also Chad.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5370247/Oxfam-aid-workers-accused-using-prostitutes-Haiti.html

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  173. @Steve Sailer
    I subscribed to a trade journal covering supermarket scanner technology in 1992 and that was their coverage of the Bush scanner incident: the salesman was explaining the various New Improved features of his state of the art scanner he was demonstrating, like being able to read bar codes that had been accidentally ripped, and the president was politely saying "Gee whiz" in response.

    Right, but the lying MSM spun it as Bush the out of touch elitist, and that story is now the new Truth. As Instapundit says, always bring your own camera crew.

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  174. njguy73 says:
    @Lawyer Guy
    In the early 2000s Bush Jr had carried on Clinton's work of destroying factory work for good Americans by also destroying the sugar beet industry in the north via another treaty, while sending his daughter to purchase a huge sugar plantation for the Bush family in Central America.

    I was saying the Ivy elites must hate us middle class Americans, and an old business lawyer told me that wasn't it. In their view people should either be wearing the Prada boots, or polishing them. No in-between.

    Use that as your world view, and everything suddenly makes sense.

    In the early 2000s Bush Jr had carried on Clinton’s work of destroying factory work for good Americans by also destroying the sugar beet industry in the north via another treaty, while sending his daughter to purchase a huge sugar plantation for the Bush family in Central America.

    I did a Google search for “bush daughter sugar beet” and got nothing. Can you help me out here? I’m intrigued.

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  175. Jack D says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    This is not a good idea.

    Why shouldn't American workers have the right to do jobs in America? What's the point of country if workers get shoved aside in favor of foreigners?

    Jamaicans have a country. We have a country. American workers should always have the right to any jobs created inside the borders of their country. This includes not just high-wage professionals, but even lower-wage blue collar people.

    Back in the old days (like the 70s), it used to be common for American-born migrant laborers (many of whom were Scots-Irish from the South) to travel around the country and do itinerant blue collar work. When the foreign worker wave began hitting our shores in the late 70s and early 80s, these people began to be pushed out of the job market. It's not surprising that over the last 4 decades, wages (inflation-adjusted) and employment opportunities have declined for workers (especially blue collar workers).

    Back in the 50s, there was a labor program that brought in many foreign workers from Mexico. Bracero. That program was ended in the 60s due to labor abuses. Any guest worker program (Bracero, H2, H1, J1) will end up being abused by employers and used to economically dispossess American workingmen.

    Certain jobs are inherently crappy jobs that American workers shouldn’t have to do. Even the least trained ones should have better jobs. Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one and doesn’t need to pick strawberries all day. What difference does it make if strawberries get picked by the strawberry picking robot or by temporary foreign workers? Either way American humans are not going to be doing that work. If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone – in part the farmer but in part the consumer.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    From my experience, some people will do any work once they get desperate enough. There are lots of people who sell their blood plasma for $25 per draw. In my area, there are people who get $10/hr to twirl signs all day outside in the rain.

    It's not just blue collar people either. Sometime ago, a well-groomed upper-class girl came to my place and asked me if I wanted to buy milk. She was a door-to-door milk saleswoman. Knocking on doors (in the rain), asking people if they wanted to buy milk.

    Americans can and will do crappy jobs. Not happily, but they'll do them when they become desperate enough. If the labor market were tighter, those crappy jobs would pay decent wages and offer better working conditions.

    If there were lots of decent-paying crappy jobs out there, it wouldn't be so hard to make a living these days. If there weren't so many immigrants and foreign investors buying American real estate, it'd be cheaper to afford or rent.

    Back in the old days, lots of iterant American migrant laborers did crappy jobs and lived in cheap flop houses. It sort of sucked, but at least work was available.

    Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one
     
    Not from my experience. Lots of people are underemployed and underpaid. Lots of people do work that they don't want to do.

    For example, most PHDs either are low-wage adjuncts or struggling to find a professional job. Many do lower-paid work on the side, like grading papers for minimum wage. Some even do blue collar work, like driving an Uber. If the H-1bs hadn't ethnically cleansed Americans from IT/software, perhaps some of these PHDs could've become programmers. They certainly have the IQ and credentials, they just don't have the opportunities.
    , @notanon

    Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one
     
    nope

    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    it's why greedy sociopaths want an over supply of labor.
    , @3g4me
    @177 Jack D: " If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone – in part the farmer but in part the consumer."

    Because to some of us, cultural cohesion and sovereignty and mechanical innovation matter more than any perceived "savings" that might come from foreign labor. When I was young, foolish, and still enamored of the liberal bs I was raised with, I used to think Japan was crazy for heavily supporting its rice farmers. Now I realize their wisdom and foresight.
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  176. Joe Sweet says:
    @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    Hitler…

    vs

    Bush…

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyhuzFdgB8c5h9cMJCFE3aVAYmISnA1RYwC9SQ46FMzDM2Z1IC

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  177. njguy73 says:
    @Hubbub

    ...he introduction of a mechanical harvester to the cotton fields during the early 1940s drove five million Southern blacks north to cities like Detroit.
     
    And look what the 'Great Migration' did for cities like Detroit...and Chicago and Newark and....

    And look what the ‘Great Migration’ did for cities like Detroit…and Chicago and Newark and….

    I believe you’re confusing “Great Migration” with “Great Society.”

    One made cities thrive, the other made cities perish.

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  178. @notanon
    Liberals wanted open borders for the voters.

    Banking mafia wanted open borders for the cheap labor.

    At this point, both liberals and conservatives are pro-cheap labor. Conservatives more so, but liberals are okay with all these guest worker programs (H1, H2, L1, J1, OPT, etc). You would’ve never seen them take such positions back in the early 90s. It’s astonishing the changes we’ve seen.

    It really wasn’t until the mid 90s when liberals realized that immigrant voters could be useful in taking control of the country. Before that, immigrants weren’t that reliably Democratic.

    It was in the 70s/80s era that the Right learned to love immigrants, mostly due to their ability to boost economic growth and profits. In the mid 90s (around the time Pete Wilson became well known nationally), the left became very enamored of them. Not just because immigrants could be reliable vote banks, but also because the Democratic party was moving sharply to the economic right.

    Back in the 80s and early 90s, lots of Democrats (Harry Reid for example) were skeptical of immigration. Many voted against the 86 amnesty. Barbara Jordan (black Congresswoman) was a major voice for immigration restrictionism. Of course, there were anti-immigration right-wing Republicans too, like Pat Buchanan.

    Immigration restrictionism was suppressed for 20-25 years, then resurfaced under the Trump candidacy. However, this time, it’s the Right that’s supporting lower levels of migration.

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  179. @Jack D
    Certain jobs are inherently crappy jobs that American workers shouldn't have to do. Even the least trained ones should have better jobs. Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one and doesn't need to pick strawberries all day. What difference does it make if strawberries get picked by the strawberry picking robot or by temporary foreign workers? Either way American humans are not going to be doing that work. If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone - in part the farmer but in part the consumer.

    From my experience, some people will do any work once they get desperate enough. There are lots of people who sell their blood plasma for $25 per draw. In my area, there are people who get $10/hr to twirl signs all day outside in the rain.

    It’s not just blue collar people either. Sometime ago, a well-groomed upper-class girl came to my place and asked me if I wanted to buy milk. She was a door-to-door milk saleswoman. Knocking on doors (in the rain), asking people if they wanted to buy milk.

    Americans can and will do crappy jobs. Not happily, but they’ll do them when they become desperate enough. If the labor market were tighter, those crappy jobs would pay decent wages and offer better working conditions.

    If there were lots of decent-paying crappy jobs out there, it wouldn’t be so hard to make a living these days. If there weren’t so many immigrants and foreign investors buying American real estate, it’d be cheaper to afford or rent.

    Back in the old days, lots of iterant American migrant laborers did crappy jobs and lived in cheap flop houses. It sort of sucked, but at least work was available.

    Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one

    Not from my experience. Lots of people are underemployed and underpaid. Lots of people do work that they don’t want to do.

    For example, most PHDs either are low-wage adjuncts or struggling to find a professional job. Many do lower-paid work on the side, like grading papers for minimum wage. Some even do blue collar work, like driving an Uber. If the H-1bs hadn’t ethnically cleansed Americans from IT/software, perhaps some of these PHDs could’ve become programmers. They certainly have the IQ and credentials, they just don’t have the opportunities.

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  180. notanon says:
    @Jack D
    Certain jobs are inherently crappy jobs that American workers shouldn't have to do. Even the least trained ones should have better jobs. Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one and doesn't need to pick strawberries all day. What difference does it make if strawberries get picked by the strawberry picking robot or by temporary foreign workers? Either way American humans are not going to be doing that work. If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone - in part the farmer but in part the consumer.

    Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one

    nope

    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    it’s why greedy sociopaths want an over supply of labor.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    Employment-to-population ratios are around the median of the last generation and higher than they were in the 1950s.
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  181. @Yan Shen
    Didn't racist whites basically force black slaves to pick cotton on plantations for a number of decades? Imagine if uh John Derbyshire had been around back in those days endlessly telling everyone how on average blacks were more violent and less intelligent relative to members of other ethnic groups, but that white Americans should still be civic minded and treat African Americans as fellow citizens and human beings.

    I think this would make a great plot for a Hollywood movie. While 2018 PC America seems to despise the message the Derb brings to the table, when he travels back in time a couple hundred years, John Derbyshire becomes one of the most progressive and woke white Americans of his era and is forever remembered by history as a uh Good White. By going back and partially negating America's Original Sin, he also spares future generations of the country from an eternity of PC and black worship.

    The other movie idea I've thrown out before involves an alien invasion uniting John Derbyshire and his black counterpart Ta Nehisi Coates.

    (Derbyshire to Coates): "I never realized that when they cut you, you bleed too just like me."

    Why, when only 1.4% of Americans owned slaves (according to the 1860 U.S. census) is slavery “America’s Original Sin” as you put it?

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    • Replies: @notanon
    Brazil got 12x as many slaves as America and yet the anti-white media tout Brazil as a shining example and USA as original sin.
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  182. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Why weren't they socially corrupting in the past? The # of braceros peaked at 445K in 1956 (enough to pick a lot of "cotton" since total agricultural labor today is only 750K) yet 1956 is not remembered as a socially corrupt time.

    If there was any social corruption, it was on the American side with employers cheating the braceros on pay knowing that they were exploitable. Any modern bracero program would have to be carefully structured so as to make bracero employment truly a last resort so that "crops don't rot in the field" and not just cheap exploitable labor for corporate interests. If you make the bracero labor cheaper than American labor employers will opt for the cheaper labor every time. If it is really an issue of not being able to get people and not just a way to save $ then they shouldn't mind paying braceros the same as Americans.

    Whether something is or isn’t corrupting depends on what one values. If you don’t value subsidizing domestic businesses with imports of cheap foreign labor, then such a policy is corrupting and makes those businesses dependent on such a policy. If you value a political economy that favors technological solutions over cheaper foreign labor, then such a policy is corrupting.

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  183. @Buzz Mohawk
    I respect your knowledge of this subject, because it is greater than mine; however, it sounds like economics -- which is not a real science. Blanket statements like "technology increases the demand for people" are ridiculous, but they are staples of econ speak.

    Besides, I did not say "technology." I said automation.

    Certainly technology increases the complexity of the human world and lends itself to more humans and more kinds of activity. Automation is a particular kind of technology that replaces human activity.

    What about a balanced system, not a static one and not one that must grow forever until some Malthusian limit is reached or some overpopulated hell is created? The whole notion that all business must perpetually grow is absurd on a finite planet.

    My country had 200 million people when I was growing up. Now it has 330 million, and it is not better. Ask anyone my age and they will tell you.

    Seek optima, not maxima.

    Buzz Mohawk belongs to what I fear is a vanishing species: people who understand the importance of quality of life over quantity of life. Mention this to a member of the ever-increasing species of homo economicus and they stare at you blankly, as if you said something in proto-Etruscan.

    Our draining social capital is the Tragedy of the Commons writ large. To the individual businessman, whether a corporate executive or a tourist souvenir stand owner, more people means more business. Bring it on! The hell with race or culture, they all spend money! If these cheerleaders for infinite population growth ever consider the resulting social consequences and environmental blight (which most don’t) it’s not their problem. Hey, technology will take care of it. Technology is magic. Technology is religion.

    So we get more crowded, we have more people the economy has no use for, because it’s perceived as a net plus for the individual and corporation, while it’s a net minus for all of us.

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  184. notanon says:
    @ThreeCranes
    Why, when only 1.4% of Americans owned slaves (according to the 1860 U.S. census) is slavery "America’s Original Sin" as you put it?

    Brazil got 12x as many slaves as America and yet the anti-white media tout Brazil as a shining example and USA as original sin.

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  185. @whorefinder

    I really doubt that anyone would go out of the way to make an enemy of the son of one of America’s most powerful families
     
    Were you around from 2000-2008? Or for that matter, in 2016, when the Bushes went from party bosses and heir apparent-producers to cast offs and out out power?

    Rubenstein is just virtue signalling. It remains hip to hate Bush on both the Left and amongst Trumpers on the right, as well as the more libertarian types. This story sounds like a whole lotta b.s. Likely, Rubenstein didn't like W.'s personality; most of the Left hated W.'s folksy manner, just as they hated Palin for hers. In contrast, Bill Clinton's absolutely fake southern good ol' boy charm turns them on.

    Were you around from 2000-2008?

    Yes, I was actually. I recall from 2002-2004, the media projected Bush as “War President” on par with Winston Churchill. Rubenstein criticized Bush in the summer of 2003, when he was very popular due to his reponse to 9/11 and the (initially) successful Iraq War. Rubenstein had no reason to make those remarks at that time.

    Bush did finally decline in the popularity around 2005/2006. He sort of disappeared from 2008 through 2015, but he was resurrected in 2016. Over the last couple of years, his image has been rehabilitated. At this point, polls show even the majority of Democrats approve of him.

    This story sounds like a whole lotta b.s. Likely, Rubenstein didn’t like W.’s personality

    Bush’s father served on Carlyle’s board through 2002. So I doubt there was a falling out between the families that lead to W being fired. Most likely, Rubenstein (who made those remarks privately to a group of conference attendees) was genuinely offended at how poorly W. had represented his firm. Wall Street financiers are very image conscious (I know this from personal experience), so Bush’s laziness and incompetence probably scandalized the firm at the time.

    If you hire the son of a former President to be on the board, he should at least look presentable and pretend to be qualified. If he’s too much of a buffoon, it makes it way too obvious that the job is nothing more than a payoff. There’s no plausible deniability anymore.

    What financial firm could honestly say that W is a man who can offer “strategic” advice on investment issues? At least with Romney’s sons (who are mostly financiers), it’s at least possible they got their jobs through being qualified.

    Read More
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  186. Art Deco says:
    @notanon
    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    #


    And, while we’re at it, neither investment nor commercial banks are in a position to loot other industries or move production abroad...
     

    ...They can merely finance projects or refuse to finance them. )
     
    yes, apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier and bribing the political class to remove tariff protection on domestic industry their inventing of junk bonds as a way of forcing corporations to off-shore or risk takeover was a third critically important factor.

    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    Serial reduction in tariffs began in 1933. The ratio of tariff revenues to import values stood at 0.24 in 1932 and fell to 0.05 in 1964. Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates – raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.

    https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/docs/w21782.pdf

    apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier

    Bankers don’t make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does. No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector. Conceivably, it might speed up plant closings as takeover artists have an assets manager’s mentality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    You are transparently dishonest but i don't know if there's an agenda or simply some kind of compulsive contrarianism. I lean towards the latter.

    Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates – raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.
     
    obvious nonsense

    product X sells for $100 in the USA
    product X costs $80 to produce in the USA -> $20 dollar profit
    product X costs $20 to produce in China (or elsewhere) -> $80 profit

    obvious consequences -> move production offshore and import it back to sell in the US

    it's why
    - there's a massive trade deficit
    - there is such a huge budget deficit
    - so many US corporations are so cash rich

    all predicted in advance 20+ years ago

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI
    , @notanon
    also

    Bankers don’t make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does.
     
    lol

    No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector.
     
    A lot of corporations didn't want to offshore for social reasons even after the banking mafia made it much more profitable to do so.

    Junk bonds and relaxed rules for hostile takeovers forced it.

    It was all tied in with the victory of share holder value as the only business criterion (as exemplified by various movies at the time).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_value#Criticism

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  187. @njguy73

    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.
     
    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he'd be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.

    Probably. I just can’t see him in any type of management or professional position.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You cannot, because you've manufactured a caricature which you believe is a true portrait.
    , @Twodees Partain
    I can't see him cleaning toilets, either. In fact, I can't see the little twit doing anything but standing around looking confused.
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  188. Art Deco says:
    @njguy73

    Of course, that didn’t stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.
     
    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he'd be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.

    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he’d be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.

    He has degrees from Yale and Harvard Business School. That might over-predict his performance, but it’s doubtful it would do it to that extent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Come on, man, surely even you are aware that the real barrier to an Ivy league degree is admission. No one ever fails out of an Ivy. Private schools have private deals, they just refer to them as legacy or development. He's a 1969 UT Austin kind of guy.
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  189. Art Deco says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    Probably. I just can't see him in any type of management or professional position.

    You cannot, because you’ve manufactured a caricature which you believe is a true portrait.

    Read More
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  190. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one
     
    nope

    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    it's why greedy sociopaths want an over supply of labor.

    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    Employment-to-population ratios are around the median of the last generation and higher than they were in the 1950s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    people working multiple part-time jobs for less money
    , @MarkinLA
    than they were in the 1950s

    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household? So of course there were less people working compared to the overall population. In addition, the families were bigger.
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  191. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    Serial reduction in tariffs began in 1933. The ratio of tariff revenues to import values stood at 0.24 in 1932 and fell to 0.05 in 1964. Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates - raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.

    https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/docs/w21782.pdf



    apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier

    Bankers don't make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does. No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector. Conceivably, it might speed up plant closings as takeover artists have an assets manager's mentality.

    You are transparently dishonest but i don’t know if there’s an agenda or simply some kind of compulsive contrarianism. I lean towards the latter.

    Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates – raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.

    obvious nonsense

    product X sells for $100 in the USA
    product X costs $80 to produce in the USA -> $20 dollar profit
    product X costs $20 to produce in China (or elsewhere) -> $80 profit

    obvious consequences -> move production offshore and import it back to sell in the US

    it’s why
    - there’s a massive trade deficit
    - there is such a huge budget deficit
    - so many US corporations are so cash rich

    all predicted in advance 20+ years ago

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    … compulsive contrarianism …
     
    Or as we say in the street “an asshole”. :(
    , @Twodees Partain
    "You are transparently dishonest but i don’t know if there’s an agenda or simply some kind of compulsive contrarianism."

    Notanon, little Artsy was the first person I used the ignore feature on, and from seeing responses of others here to his BS, I conclude that he's clearly a shill of some kind.

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  192. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    Employment-to-population ratios are around the median of the last generation and higher than they were in the 1950s.

    people working multiple part-time jobs for less money

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    About 5% of the working population holds multiple jobs. About 1.5% hold multiple part-time jobs.


    Employee compensation accounted for 66% of national income in 1970 and accounts for about 62% today. National income per capita has increased (in real terms) about 2.3-fold since 1970.
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  193. @Flip

    In a 1995 memoir, Defense Secretary Robert MacNamara, architect of the Vietnam War, confessed “We were wrong, terribly wrong, ” and that America “could and should have withdrawn from South Vietnam” in late 1963.
     
    I think that JFK making moves in that direction is one of the reasons the CIA and the military had him killed.

    https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Unspeakable-Why-Died-Matters/dp/1439193886

    Absolute nonsense. FWIW a plot by the “CIA and military” would have failed, judging by their usual performance.

    Read More
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  194. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    millions of manufacturing jobs were off-shored after tariff protection was removed

    Serial reduction in tariffs began in 1933. The ratio of tariff revenues to import values stood at 0.24 in 1932 and fell to 0.05 in 1964. Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates - raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.

    https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dirwin/docs/w21782.pdf



    apart from the banking mafia changing the rules to make hostile take overs easier

    Bankers don't make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does. No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector. Conceivably, it might speed up plant closings as takeover artists have an assets manager's mentality.

    also

    Bankers don’t make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does.

    lol

    No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector.

    A lot of corporations didn’t want to offshore for social reasons even after the banking mafia made it much more profitable to do so.

    Junk bonds and relaxed rules for hostile takeovers forced it.

    It was all tied in with the victory of share holder value as the only business criterion (as exemplified by various movies at the time).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_value#Criticism

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    A lot of corporations didn’t want to offshore for social reasons even after the banking mafia made it much more profitable to do so.

    Neither bankers nor the fictional banking mafia taking up rent-free space in your head make productive activity profitable or unprofitable. They lend and raise capital, the result of which may be a profitable or unprofitable endeavour.

    A company which finds it worth its while to off-shore is also likely to be facing foreign competition 'ere long if it declines to off-shore, which will in turn create dilemmas of its own.
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  195. Hibernian says:
    @Art Deco
    Who was the last President who was actually objectively qualified (based on native intelligence, analytical skills and experience, not morality) to be President? Probably Bill Clinton. Certainly with Dubya, Obama and Trump we seem content to be electing increasingly incompetent clowns.

    You're stated 'qualifications' aren't worth sh!t. The real qualifications are, in order of importance (1) experience in organizational leadership w/o manifest failure, (2) knowing how to work Congress, and (3) a commitment to principles and programmes (or, more nebulously, public service).

    The most superlatively intelligent man to occupy the Presidency in the last 85 years was Richard Nixon. A review of memoirs and quasi-scholarly analyses of his time in office paint one clear picture: he was an incompetent administrator who had no business in that chair. "Intelligence" isn't skill and re performance there are diminishing returns to be had from inputs like general intelligence.

    As for Clinton, he inherited an excellent set of cards and was sufficiently astute (and constrained by Congress) that he didn't throw it away. Seven other notables ran for President in 1992. The smart money says one (Tom Harkin) would have done a worse job in office and that three others (Paul Tsongas, Pat Buchanan, and Ross Perot) carried risks for one reason or another. Clinton was readily replaceable by Brown, Kerrey, or Bush, Sr.

    George W. Bush had run businesses (performance mixed) and run the state government of Texas. That's adequate, and it's more executive experience than the other five shnooks he was competing against (in 2000) and more than John Kerry or John Edwards could muster four years later. Donald Trump has spent his adult life supervising a large and multifarious organization. Your sore thumb there is a sometime legal academic who never published anything (and whose actual vocation might have been something like 'local TV newscaster').

    George W. Bush’s oil business was successively bailed out through cash infusions followed by a purchase by a larger company which may well have been currying favor with VP George Sr.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    It's been contended for some time that investors were willing to pay excessive sums for his businesses and that his brother was treated absurdly leniently by creditors. That may be, though I'd regard all that with some reserve because it was a thesis peddled by people like Molly Ivins who didn't know the business world from tiddlywinks.

    That George W. Bush ran an unsuccessful business from 1977 to 1989 still doesn't explain to me why that other fellow fancies Bush'd be broke enough today to be working in a bank at age 71 and why he'd be getting a break by being given the assistant manager's position in a branch office located in a 3d tier city. My godmother (b. 1927, d. 1998) had a better job than that with the Crocker National Bank on the strength of an associate's degree.
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  196. dr kill says:
    @Art Deco
    If his last name had been anything but Bush, he’d be lucky to be assistant manager of a Wells Fargo branch somewhere in Lubbock.

    He has degrees from Yale and Harvard Business School. That might over-predict his performance, but it's doubtful it would do it to that extent.

    Come on, man, surely even you are aware that the real barrier to an Ivy league degree is admission. No one ever fails out of an Ivy. Private schools have private deals, they just refer to them as legacy or development. He’s a 1969 UT Austin kind of guy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Come on, man, surely even you are aware that the real barrier to an Ivy league degree is admission.

    No, I'm aware that that's a fashionable narrative in places like this.


    No one ever fails out of an Ivy.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/%22Citation_needed%22.jpg
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  197. Art Deco says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    From the 30s through the late 70s, pro-redistributionist policies put significant downward economic pressure on the wealthy (investors, entrepreneurs, execs, traders). The 70s were an especially difficult era for the wealthy, but prosperity for the working masses. In the tight labor market, wages had climbed so high that the profit margins were absolutely horrendous. So, in the late 70s, business interests pushed back and began to co-opt America's politicians and media.

    By the early 80s, the business interests were back in control of Washington DC. They successfully pushed for large-scale deregulation, tax cuts, and loosening of controls over banking (remember S&Ls?). After Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers, businesses took that action as a greenlight to obliterate their own unions.

    During the early/mid 90s, after the election of Bill Clinton, the business interests fully took over the Democratic party. When Clinton/Gore pushed NAFTA over the opposition of the unions, it marked the end of the unions as a dominant faction in the Democratic party.

    The UK (under Thatcher, Major, and Blair) followed a very similar trajectory. Thatcher was also very pro-business and crushed unions. Blair pushed the labor party in a more pro-business direction amenable to British business interests.

    Other Anglo countries (Canada, NZ, Australia) have repeated this pattern. Continental Euro countries have been more resistant, but (to some extent) even they've gone in a much pro-business direction.

    The 70s were an especially difficult era for the wealthy, but prosperity for the working masses. In the tight labor market, wages had climbed so high that the profit margins were absolutely horrendous. So, in the late 70s, business interests pushed back and began to co-opt America’s politicians and media.

    I take it you’re fairly young (or you slept through that decade). The era was difficult for the wealthy because real share prices were declining and people who’d bought bonds prior to 1966 saw their real value severely vitiated by the unanticipated inflation which erupted during the period running from 1966 to 1982. Also, capital gains taxes assessed liability on changes in nominal prices (which was and is absurd). Working people who prospered in that era did so because they took out fixed-rate mortgages prior to 1966. Those who had bought savings bonds or had their money in savings banks (whose interest rates were fixed by law) saw their assets lose value. The chronic inflation generated a great deal of discontent, as did the effects of cack-handed government policy meant to contain it (gas lines, for instance). Also, there was around 1970 a reset in levels of economic dynamism. Real production per capita grew at a rate of about 2.3% per year (on average) from 1947 to 1970, and about 2.0% per year from 1970 to 1991. Throughout the period running from 1960 to 1979, the natural unemployment rate was increasing, making it increasingly costly to attempt contain the inflation. You also had declining quality of life in realms not captured by production statistics (crime rates, educational performance). In addition, there were inter-generational issues you hadn’t seen prior to 1955 and really haven’t seen much of since 1990. There were ancillary matters which also irritated people, such the quality of workmanship in various realms. I’m remembering a late-middle aged technician from Rochester Telephone showing up at our house in 1979 and looking over some cheap work done by another tech a few years earlier and saying, “the telephone company I joined 25 years ago was not the company it is today”. It’s the sort of comment you expected to hear in that era. (See also, the Chevy Chevette and Ford Pinto).

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses, even if "the worm was in the bud".


    (From a UK perspective I remember all the strikes and poor quality of the Brit car industry, and the appearance of the first ultra-reliable though unfashionable Datsun cars, which were to do to Austin and Vauxhall what Honda motorbikes had done to BSA and Triumph a decade before)
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  198. Art Deco says:
    @Hibernian
    George W. Bush's oil business was successively bailed out through cash infusions followed by a purchase by a larger company which may well have been currying favor with VP George Sr.

    It’s been contended for some time that investors were willing to pay excessive sums for his businesses and that his brother was treated absurdly leniently by creditors. That may be, though I’d regard all that with some reserve because it was a thesis peddled by people like Molly Ivins who didn’t know the business world from tiddlywinks.

    That George W. Bush ran an unsuccessful business from 1977 to 1989 still doesn’t explain to me why that other fellow fancies Bush’d be broke enough today to be working in a bank at age 71 and why he’d be getting a break by being given the assistant manager’s position in a branch office located in a 3d tier city. My godmother (b. 1927, d. 1998) had a better job than that with the Crocker National Bank on the strength of an associate’s degree.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Comparing Crocker National Bank in one era to Wells Fargo in another era is so fanciful it is beyond absurd. Other than being banks they have nothing in common. Was your “godmother” in a branch office … you don’t say. Was she married to … you don’t say. What was her associate’s degree in … you don’t say. Was she working as a banker or a … you don’t say. Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.
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  199. Hibernian says:
    @anony-mouse
    Um, it wasn't just cotton picking machines. There was also a migration of Blacks after WW I. Also during WW II.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_race_riot_of_1943

    WWs 1 and 2:

    Cut off immigration from Europe.

    Increased industrial demand especially after US entry into these 2 wars.

    Resulted in men leaving industry for the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps after US entry.

    Hispanic and Southerm White emigration/immigration were also encouraged by these conditions.

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  200. Art Deco says:
    @dr kill
    Come on, man, surely even you are aware that the real barrier to an Ivy league degree is admission. No one ever fails out of an Ivy. Private schools have private deals, they just refer to them as legacy or development. He's a 1969 UT Austin kind of guy.

    Come on, man, surely even you are aware that the real barrier to an Ivy league degree is admission.

    No, I’m aware that that’s a fashionable narrative in places like this.

    No one ever fails out of an Ivy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    You keep it up and there’s no Schnippers for you.
    , @dr kill
    May I suggest you try Google - average grade at harvard- Business insider, Teh Crimson, Boston.com, Teh Economist,

    or just skim this para.

    13 Schools Where It's Really Hard To Fail - BI - Business Insider
    www.businessinsider.com/13-schools-where-its-really-hard-to-fail-2013-5
    May 29, 2013 - Harvard College, Cambridge, Mass. ... In June 2000, a record 91% of Harvard undergraduate students graduated summa, magna, or cum laude. And USA Today reported that eight out of every 10 Harvard students graduate with honors, with nearly half receiving A's in their courses.

    Boy, that Business Insider really hates Harvard.
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  201. Hibernian says:
    @International Jew
    He's an idiot, yeah, but compared to Trump he's Adlai Stevenson.

    Adlai Stevenson had an intellectual image.

    Read More
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  202. Art Deco says:
    @notanon
    also

    Bankers don’t make those rules, the Securities and Exchange Commission does.
     
    lol

    No clue what you fancy hostile takeovers have to do with changing comparative advantage in the manufacturing sector.
     
    A lot of corporations didn't want to offshore for social reasons even after the banking mafia made it much more profitable to do so.

    Junk bonds and relaxed rules for hostile takeovers forced it.

    It was all tied in with the victory of share holder value as the only business criterion (as exemplified by various movies at the time).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_value#Criticism

    A lot of corporations didn’t want to offshore for social reasons even after the banking mafia made it much more profitable to do so.

    Neither bankers nor the fictional banking mafia taking up rent-free space in your head make productive activity profitable or unprofitable. They lend and raise capital, the result of which may be a profitable or unprofitable endeavour.

    A company which finds it worth its while to off-shore is also likely to be facing foreign competition ‘ere long if it declines to off-shore, which will in turn create dilemmas of its own.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon

    A company which finds it worth its while to off-shore is also likely to be facing foreign competition ‘ere long if it declines to off-shore
     
    right - the removal of tariffs was the key element - the rest was only needed to speed it up.
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  203. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    A lot of corporations didn’t want to offshore for social reasons even after the banking mafia made it much more profitable to do so.

    Neither bankers nor the fictional banking mafia taking up rent-free space in your head make productive activity profitable or unprofitable. They lend and raise capital, the result of which may be a profitable or unprofitable endeavour.

    A company which finds it worth its while to off-shore is also likely to be facing foreign competition 'ere long if it declines to off-shore, which will in turn create dilemmas of its own.

    A company which finds it worth its while to off-shore is also likely to be facing foreign competition ‘ere long if it declines to off-shore

    right – the removal of tariffs was the key element – the rest was only needed to speed it up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The removal of tariffs antedated the decline in manufacturing by decades and consumption of manufactures is not sensitive to tariff rates. Japan maintained domestic rice production for decades with a simple strategem: they banned rice imports (and had very expensive rice). Autarchy's never been public policy in this country, even during the Smoot-Hawley era.
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  204. Hibernian says:
    @George
    What was going on in 1914 that let Ford earn such profits?

    The evil War he preached against on his peace cruise.

    Read More
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  205. Art Deco says:
    @notanon
    people working multiple part-time jobs for less money

    About 5% of the working population holds multiple jobs. About 1.5% hold multiple part-time jobs.

    Employee compensation accounted for 66% of national income in 1970 and accounts for about 62% today. National income per capita has increased (in real terms) about 2.3-fold since 1970.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    product X sells for $100 in the USA
    product X costs $80 to produce in the USA -> $20 dollar profit
    product X costs $20 to produce in China (or elsewhere) -> $80 profit

    obvious consequences -> move production offshore and import it back to sell in the US
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  206. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    About 5% of the working population holds multiple jobs. About 1.5% hold multiple part-time jobs.


    Employee compensation accounted for 66% of national income in 1970 and accounts for about 62% today. National income per capita has increased (in real terms) about 2.3-fold since 1970.

    product X sells for $100 in the USA
    product X costs $80 to produce in the USA -> $20 dollar profit
    product X costs $20 to produce in China (or elsewhere) -> $80 profit

    obvious consequences -> move production offshore and import it back to sell in the US

    Read More
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  207. Sally Field picked cotton in the 1984 movie: Places In The Heart.
    In fact, she was quite industrious and inventive at cotton picking. I recall all her helpers were American, no Bracero labor that I could spot. The cotton picking was a major plot point.
    A trailer on YouTube that includes some of the cotton picking:

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  208. MarkinLA says:
    @Jack D
    I really think there is nothing wrong with coolie labor per se, just with the way we have been doing it in recent years. Before cane cutting (another lousy job) was automated in the US (putting aside that we shouldn't be growing cane in the US in the 1st place - the industry only exists because of tariff walls and benefits only a handful of rich families) there was a program where they would bring in seasonal cane cutters from Jamaica and fly them back when cane cutting season was over. This worked well for both sides - the American cane growers got cheap labor who was skilled in that job (and yes recruiting Americans to do that work was not easy, at any price) and the Jamaicans got more $ than they could have made back home. But these were single men who came without their families and went back home when the cutting season was over.

    There is no reason why we couldn't have this type of program for agricultural labor without making all of the ag. laborers (and their wives and children and parent and sisters and brothers and cousins, ad infinitum) into full fledged permanent residents. Just so people don't put down permanent roots, you limit it to a certain # of months each year and you can only do it for 5 years and then you have to get some different Mexicans to come and spread the wealth back in their home villages. No children clogging up the school system, no pregnant wives getting free medical care in the emergency room , just single workers and any infraction gets you put on the plane and permanently banned from the US. Once you take into account not only Latin America but India and Africa there is essentially an infinite labor pool who could be recruited to do this work on a rotating basis with benefits to both sides. So long as everyone understood that this was temporary and not a "path to citizenship".

    The braceros were routinely cheated – even by their own corrupt government. You also can’t put them on chain gangs. What if they run off after the first days work and run to a sanctuary city and look for work in construction?

    In addition, this smacks of elitism. You consider the job beneath you but at the same time don’t think an American is worthy of getting high pay for it because that is what the market dictates when few will take the job. You are appalled at the idea that he might actually get paid “more than he is worth” (according to you).

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  209. anon • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    Come on, man, surely even you are aware that the real barrier to an Ivy league degree is admission.

    No, I'm aware that that's a fashionable narrative in places like this.


    No one ever fails out of an Ivy.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/%22Citation_needed%22.jpg

    You keep it up and there’s no Schnippers for you.

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    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Cheesy, Joe; cheesy!
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  210. Redman says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Sure, pro-war feeling against Afghanistan, at least as far as bombing Taliban bases and going after Osama bin Laden, but why pro-war feeling against Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11?

    I’m not saying it makes sense but those were the times. How soon we forget.

    Why do you think John Kerry and HRC voted in favor of war with Iraq? Because that’s what the damn polls were saying was the wise bet.

    Gore was not the man to stop the rush to
    War with Iraq since he was nothing but a poll watcher like the Clintons.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Kerry and HRC felt they had to support Bush going to war because he had made the (phony) case for it and it had gathered its own momentum, with his "You're either with us or with the terrorists" rhetoric. That doesn't prove that if someone else had been president, they would have chosen the same course.
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  211. anon • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @notanon
    You are transparently dishonest but i don't know if there's an agenda or simply some kind of compulsive contrarianism. I lean towards the latter.

    Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates – raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.
     
    obvious nonsense

    product X sells for $100 in the USA
    product X costs $80 to produce in the USA -> $20 dollar profit
    product X costs $20 to produce in China (or elsewhere) -> $80 profit

    obvious consequences -> move production offshore and import it back to sell in the US

    it's why
    - there's a massive trade deficit
    - there is such a huge budget deficit
    - so many US corporations are so cash rich

    all predicted in advance 20+ years ago

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI

    … compulsive contrarianism …

    Or as we say in the street “an asshole”. :(

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  212. 3g4me says:
    @Jack D
    Certain jobs are inherently crappy jobs that American workers shouldn't have to do. Even the least trained ones should have better jobs. Right now at least, pretty much everyone who wants a job has one and doesn't need to pick strawberries all day. What difference does it make if strawberries get picked by the strawberry picking robot or by temporary foreign workers? Either way American humans are not going to be doing that work. If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone - in part the farmer but in part the consumer.

    @177 Jack D: ” If braceros are $10/hr. and a picking robot costs $15 then that $5 saving will benefit someone – in part the farmer but in part the consumer.”

    Because to some of us, cultural cohesion and sovereignty and mechanical innovation matter more than any perceived “savings” that might come from foreign labor. When I was young, foolish, and still enamored of the liberal bs I was raised with, I used to think Japan was crazy for heavily supporting its rice farmers. Now I realize their wisdom and foresight.

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  213. Redman says:
    @njguy73

    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.
     
    How do you know 9/11 would have happened on Gore's watch as well?

    You think it wouldn’t have? What are you basing that on, the inate brilliance of the DEM foreign policy during the Clinton?

    I’ve never even heard anyone insinuate that 9/11 wouldn’t have happened under Gore. On that issue the uni-party has been pretty consistent.

    That he might not have gone into Iraq is what people usually suggest, which I think makes no sense looking at past patterns.

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    • Replies: @njguy73
    I'm saying that no one can say 9/11 would or wouldn't have happened if Gore was president. It's pure speculation.
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  214. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…About 5% of the working population holds multiple jobs…

    Might be true, but so might this:

    “‘Survey: More Than One-Third Of Working Millennials Have A Side Job’, Renee Morad, Forbes, Sep 29, 2016…

    …Overall, 29% of workers have a second job, but millennials far outpace other age groups. About 39% percent of workers ages 18-24 and 44% of workers ages 25-34 reported earning extra cash on the side. In comparison, 29% of workers ages 35-44 and 22% of those ages 45-52 are hustling with a side gig, according to CareerBuilder’s survey of roughly 3,200 full-time workers in the private sector across all industries and company sizes. Nineteen percent of those ages 55 and older are also working a second job.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Might be true, but so might this:

    No it isn't. The math is impossible. There are 53 million employed persons born after 1981. The number of people holding multiple jobs is 7.7 million, and that's in all age groups.
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  215. Redman says:
    @Thea
    I'm not sure Gore would have had the backbone to stand down the warmongers.

    Nor the interest. His core constituency were never the folks concerned with peace.

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  216. anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    It's been contended for some time that investors were willing to pay excessive sums for his businesses and that his brother was treated absurdly leniently by creditors. That may be, though I'd regard all that with some reserve because it was a thesis peddled by people like Molly Ivins who didn't know the business world from tiddlywinks.

    That George W. Bush ran an unsuccessful business from 1977 to 1989 still doesn't explain to me why that other fellow fancies Bush'd be broke enough today to be working in a bank at age 71 and why he'd be getting a break by being given the assistant manager's position in a branch office located in a 3d tier city. My godmother (b. 1927, d. 1998) had a better job than that with the Crocker National Bank on the strength of an associate's degree.

    Comparing Crocker National Bank in one era to Wells Fargo in another era is so fanciful it is beyond absurd. Other than being banks they have nothing in common. Was your “godmother” in a branch office … you don’t say. Was she married to … you don’t say. What was her associate’s degree in … you don’t say. Was she working as a banker or a … you don’t say. Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    She got her first banking job in 1956. She was married in 1978. Her husband was an engineer and had no influence in the banking business.
    , @Art Deco
    Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.

    My suggestion is that you review the thesis you're implicitly defending.
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  217. MarkinLA says:
    @Jack D
    Why weren't they socially corrupting in the past? The # of braceros peaked at 445K in 1956 (enough to pick a lot of "cotton" since total agricultural labor today is only 750K) yet 1956 is not remembered as a socially corrupt time.

    If there was any social corruption, it was on the American side with employers cheating the braceros on pay knowing that they were exploitable. Any modern bracero program would have to be carefully structured so as to make bracero employment truly a last resort so that "crops don't rot in the field" and not just cheap exploitable labor for corporate interests. If you make the bracero labor cheaper than American labor employers will opt for the cheaper labor every time. If it is really an issue of not being able to get people and not just a way to save $ then they shouldn't mind paying braceros the same as Americans.

    The bracero program lead to increases in illegal aliens that had to be kicked out under Operation Wetback by Eisenhower. Just like our current agricultural visa, some farmers think they are too special to apply for them or wait in line for them and just hire illegals anyway.

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  218. @George
    What was going on in 1914 that let Ford earn such profits?

    He was transforming the automobile from a plaything for the rich to affordable transportation and freedom for a growing middle class. In other words, he was transforming the world into the one we take for granted today — and paying his own employees enough to participate in it.

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  219. Feeding Dubya’s favoring of aliens over Americans are his Mommy issues due to being handed off to a (cheap labor) Mexican nanny to raise him. In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. He extrapolates his pro mass-immigration views from that.

    If only his fabulously wealthy family had spent a bit more on salary and hired a British maid and butler! That would’ve been do-able, as the Brits left many immigration slots un-used pre-1965.

    Jeb! has similar Mommy issues, apparently manifested in his inexplicable choice of a homely wife. Jeb could have had his pick of any talented, educated looker of good breeding from historic American families. Yet he chose a Mutt-and-Jeff pairing with an illegal alien’s unattractive daughter. Columba Bush still barely speaks English and that doesn’t seem to bother Jeb! in the least. Very telling.

    The hand that rocks the cradle . . .

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    " In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. "

    Please. You don't actually believe he wrote a book, do you? Christopher Michel wrote the book that W is credited with writing. He says he stitched it together from W's notes. I shudder to think of him trying to decipher a grocery bag full of scribblings in crayon and managing to come up with a coherent book, of sorts.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.
    , @Art Deco
    Feeding Dubya’s favoring of aliens over Americans are his Mommy issues

    What's grossly amusing about this commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you're insightful.
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  220. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “No one ever fails out of an Ivy.”

    Interesting question. The phenomena of “not failing out” of elite institutions used to be considered common in the world outside of the US, that is, in Europe or Japan one expected that once in the national school, you basically had to work to drop out (some did). What are the US rates?

    Here are the rates for the Ivies: “Ivy League Graduation Rates Comparison Chart”.
    Overall, 95.4%.

    The average graduation rate in the US, from the government’s National Center for Educational Statistics:

    “…he 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began seeking a bachelor’s degree at a 4-year degree-granting institution in fall 2009 was 59 percent. That is, 59 percent had completed a bachelor’s degree by 2015…

    But:

    “…at 4-year institutions with open admissions policies, 32 percent of students completed a bachelor’s degree within 6 years.”

    32% vs 95% is a good bit, but the filtering of the admissions policy has to be considered.

    Some “top” school graduation rates:

    “The top U.S. universities have very different graduation rates”, Roger Riddell, EducationDive, Sept. 17, 2013.

    Lists graduation rates as:

    “COLUMBIA: 90%
    YALE: 89%
    DARTMOUTH: 88%
    PRINCETON: 88%
    DUKE: 87%
    UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: 87%
    HARVARD: 86%
    UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: 86%
    MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: 84%
    STANFORD: 80%
    CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: 79%”

    The US might well be trying to over-educate the population. Perhaps it’s just another form of welfare.

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  221. SMK says: • Website
    @Dr. Doom
    Little W, ladies and gentleman. Talking up Mexico in the Middle East. That's a lack of acumen right there folks, I don't care who you are, you can laugh at this dude. All hat and no cattle.

    He was the Governor of Texas. If that's not a condemnation of this democracy concept, what is?
    Look at that lack of coherence and poorly worded arguments. Can you see democracy in there?

    After this he should go back to painting. Maybe he can go to Vienna and paint postcards for tourists?

    Imagine, this genuinely “white-privileged,” Yale-educated ignoramus and simpleton -who doesn’t even know that cotton-picking was mechanized before he was born- was President of the U.S. for 8-years. Al Gore and John Kerry would have been just as bad or even worse on race and immigration, of course, but would they have invaded and occupied Afghanistan. And if so, would they have invaded and occupied Iraq? Probably not -so, on the whole, they would have been less awful than Bush II.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Redman
    Good question. Now where’s the evidence that Kerry and Gore wouldn’t have bombed Iraq ? Because my sense is both would have been equally hawkish. And with Kerry we can see what he was like with his pro-war stance in Syria.
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  222. MarkinLA says:
    @Jack D
    Robots who pick strawberries - wonderful, fantastic.

    Temporary foreign workers who pick strawberries - bad, evil.

    I don't get it.

    If you thought of America as a country you would get it.

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  223. MarkinLA says:
    @Art Deco
    the deliberate over supply of labor you advocate for has destroyed full-time jobs for the low skilled and replaced them with multiple part-time jobs for less money.

    Employment-to-population ratios are around the median of the last generation and higher than they were in the 1950s.

    than they were in the 1950s

    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household? So of course there were less people working compared to the overall population. In addition, the families were bigger.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household?

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21. A single set of wages could maintain a household...except when it couldn't.
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  224. @JohnnyWalker123
    Probably. I just can't see him in any type of management or professional position.

    I can’t see him cleaning toilets, either. In fact, I can’t see the little twit doing anything but standing around looking confused.

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  225. Redman says:
    @SMK
    Imagine, this genuinely "white-privileged," Yale-educated ignoramus and simpleton -who doesn't even know that cotton-picking was mechanized before he was born- was President of the U.S. for 8-years. Al Gore and John Kerry would have been just as bad or even worse on race and immigration, of course, but would they have invaded and occupied Afghanistan. And if so, would they have invaded and occupied Iraq? Probably not -so, on the whole, they would have been less awful than Bush II.

    Good question. Now where’s the evidence that Kerry and Gore wouldn’t have bombed Iraq ? Because my sense is both would have been equally hawkish. And with Kerry we can see what he was like with his pro-war stance in Syria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    There was no reason for Dubya or any other potential president to invade and occupy Iraq. It took a great deal of effort to cobble one together from dubious intelligence. So why do you assume that any other president would have done so?
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  226. @Sarah Toga
    Feeding Dubya's favoring of aliens over Americans are his Mommy issues due to being handed off to a (cheap labor) Mexican nanny to raise him. In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. He extrapolates his pro mass-immigration views from that.

    If only his fabulously wealthy family had spent a bit more on salary and hired a British maid and butler! That would've been do-able, as the Brits left many immigration slots un-used pre-1965.

    Jeb! has similar Mommy issues, apparently manifested in his inexplicable choice of a homely wife. Jeb could have had his pick of any talented, educated looker of good breeding from historic American families. Yet he chose a Mutt-and-Jeff pairing with an illegal alien's unattractive daughter. Columba Bush still barely speaks English and that doesn't seem to bother Jeb! in the least. Very telling.

    The hand that rocks the cradle . . .

    ” In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. ”

    Please. You don’t actually believe he wrote a book, do you? Christopher Michel wrote the book that W is credited with writing. He says he stitched it together from W’s notes. I shudder to think of him trying to decipher a grocery bag full of scribblings in crayon and managing to come up with a coherent book, of sorts.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

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    • LOL: Sarah Toga
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Without quite calling him his ghostwriter, Bush gives accolades by name to his ghostwriter in his memoir, which was nice of him, since it probably got the fellow more business.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I should think the Bush boys all have mommy issues--look at the way old Barbara belittled and undermined Jeb during the campaign. (Perhaps she put America's interests ahead of her family's.)
    , @Art Deco
    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    Your mother is telling you to get out of the basement and play outside.
    , @Sarah Toga
    ha ha - good observation!
    My aim was to direct people to the source of Dubya's ringing endorsement of his Mexican-substitute-Mommy. It was about page 102 if memory serves.

    I also recall Dubya did not praise is birth mother in his ghost writer's book . . . what else is wrong with those Bush boys?

    Tangentially related - Do you remember the time G.H.W.B included a remark during a public appearance about how his mother made him eat broccoli while growing up, and how he did not have to do so anymore? I think the leftist-journalist-goon-squad was carping about his eating pork rinds with Tobasco. Seems like that didn't hurt. The man is in his 90's and probably will reach age 100, then sky-dive again.
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  227. Svigor says:

    Is UAE anything like Saudi Arabia? Because I can’t think of a country with an immigration policy more evocative of slavery. An oligarch pontificating from the region is pretty rich.

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  228. Svigor says:

    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver’s compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn’t exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    Last I heard, they have GPS systems that do almost all the driving. The guy in the air-conditioned cabin listening to music is just there to make the occasional correction or veto.

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  229. @Twodees Partain
    " In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. "

    Please. You don't actually believe he wrote a book, do you? Christopher Michel wrote the book that W is credited with writing. He says he stitched it together from W's notes. I shudder to think of him trying to decipher a grocery bag full of scribblings in crayon and managing to come up with a coherent book, of sorts.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    Without quite calling him his ghostwriter, Bush gives accolades by name to his ghostwriter in his memoir, which was nice of him, since it probably got the fellow more business.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    W has trouble with multisyllabic words. That's probably why he didn't try to pronounce "ghostwriter". ;-)
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  230. @Redman
    Good question. Now where’s the evidence that Kerry and Gore wouldn’t have bombed Iraq ? Because my sense is both would have been equally hawkish. And with Kerry we can see what he was like with his pro-war stance in Syria.

    There was no reason for Dubya or any other potential president to invade and occupy Iraq. It took a great deal of effort to cobble one together from dubious intelligence. So why do you assume that any other president would have done so?

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  231. @Twodees Partain
    " In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. "

    Please. You don't actually believe he wrote a book, do you? Christopher Michel wrote the book that W is credited with writing. He says he stitched it together from W's notes. I shudder to think of him trying to decipher a grocery bag full of scribblings in crayon and managing to come up with a coherent book, of sorts.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    I should think the Bush boys all have mommy issues–look at the way old Barbara belittled and undermined Jeb during the campaign. (Perhaps she put America’s interests ahead of her family’s.)

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    • Replies: @Sarah Toga

    Perhaps she put America’s interests ahead of her family’s.
     
    I remember thinking that at the time.
    , @Twodees Partain
    I'll bet they all do have Mommy issues. Marvin isn't in the public eye much, but he may well be the same as his two politard brothers. I've really never seen two more useless white men than Jeb! and W.
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  232. Art Deco says:
    @notanon

    A company which finds it worth its while to off-shore is also likely to be facing foreign competition ‘ere long if it declines to off-shore
     
    right - the removal of tariffs was the key element - the rest was only needed to speed it up.

    The removal of tariffs antedated the decline in manufacturing by decades and consumption of manufactures is not sensitive to tariff rates. Japan maintained domestic rice production for decades with a simple strategem: they banned rice imports (and had very expensive rice). Autarchy’s never been public policy in this country, even during the Smoot-Hawley era.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    dishonest
    wrong
    true
    straw man
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  233. Art Deco says:
    @Twodees Partain
    " In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. "

    Please. You don't actually believe he wrote a book, do you? Christopher Michel wrote the book that W is credited with writing. He says he stitched it together from W's notes. I shudder to think of him trying to decipher a grocery bag full of scribblings in crayon and managing to come up with a coherent book, of sorts.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    Your mother is telling you to get out of the basement and play outside.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I was just in the basement doing laundry and if Mom (b. 1929) calls me and tells me to play outside, I will, for at least 5 min.
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  234. Art Deco says:
    @MarkinLA
    than they were in the 1950s

    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household? So of course there were less people working compared to the overall population. In addition, the families were bigger.

    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household?

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21. A single set of wages could maintain a household…except when it couldn’t.

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21.
     
    Facts like this never get in the way of the narrative of a loser like MarkinLA.
    , @notanon

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957
     
    age distribution:
    - young
    - big drop while they had kids
    - back again after kids were old enough
    , @Anonymous

    when most women were married by the age of 21.
     
    A lie. Median doesn't mean most. You owe MarkinLA an apology.
    , @MarkinLA
    Saying 1/3 of the workforce was women says nothing about whether they had full time or part time jobs. It also says nothing about them having to work since the husband didn't make enough or just wanting to work for the extra family income.
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  235. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    Feeding Dubya's favoring of aliens over Americans are his Mommy issues due to being handed off to a (cheap labor) Mexican nanny to raise him. In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. He extrapolates his pro mass-immigration views from that.

    If only his fabulously wealthy family had spent a bit more on salary and hired a British maid and butler! That would've been do-able, as the Brits left many immigration slots un-used pre-1965.

    Jeb! has similar Mommy issues, apparently manifested in his inexplicable choice of a homely wife. Jeb could have had his pick of any talented, educated looker of good breeding from historic American families. Yet he chose a Mutt-and-Jeff pairing with an illegal alien's unattractive daughter. Columba Bush still barely speaks English and that doesn't seem to bother Jeb! in the least. Very telling.

    The hand that rocks the cradle . . .

    Feeding Dubya’s favoring of aliens over Americans are his Mommy issues

    What’s grossly amusing about this commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re insightful.

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    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
    What's grossly disgusting about your comment is you apparently think you can read minds.
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  236. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous
    Comparing Crocker National Bank in one era to Wells Fargo in another era is so fanciful it is beyond absurd. Other than being banks they have nothing in common. Was your “godmother” in a branch office … you don’t say. Was she married to … you don’t say. What was her associate’s degree in … you don’t say. Was she working as a banker or a … you don’t say. Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.

    She got her first banking job in 1956. She was married in 1978. Her husband was an engineer and had no influence in the banking business.

    Read More
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  237. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous
    Comparing Crocker National Bank in one era to Wells Fargo in another era is so fanciful it is beyond absurd. Other than being banks they have nothing in common. Was your “godmother” in a branch office … you don’t say. Was she married to … you don’t say. What was her associate’s degree in … you don’t say. Was she working as a banker or a … you don’t say. Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.

    Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.

    My suggestion is that you review the thesis you’re implicitly defending.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous

    My suggestion is that you review the thesis you’re implicitly defending.
     
    My suggestion is that you put down your Schnippers bun-less sloppy joe and put more work into camouflaging your deflections.

    Answer the questions fat boy! You’re always the asshole asking everyone else for a citation while you just spew “facts” that aren’t facts at all. What’s grossly unamusing about your fact-free commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re god’s gift to reasoned argument. You say that almost all women were married by age 21 and then go on to say that your “godmother” was born in 1929 and wasn’t married until 1978. Arithmetic (not math you pompous blubber boy) tells me she was slighty more than 21 when she got married, so I guess by your reasoning she wasn’t a woman? Can you cite a “fact” for that? Or a study? Or a figure from the Bureau of Weights and Measures? You’re warped.
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  238. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous
    "...About 5% of the working population holds multiple jobs...

    Might be true, but so might this:


    "'Survey: More Than One-Third Of Working Millennials Have A Side Job', Renee Morad, Forbes, Sep 29, 2016...

    ...Overall, 29% of workers have a second job, but millennials far outpace other age groups. About 39% percent of workers ages 18-24 and 44% of workers ages 25-34 reported earning extra cash on the side. In comparison, 29% of workers ages 35-44 and 22% of those ages 45-52 are hustling with a side gig, according to CareerBuilder’s survey of roughly 3,200 full-time workers in the private sector across all industries and company sizes. Nineteen percent of those ages 55 and older are also working a second job."

     

    Might be true, but so might this:

    No it isn’t. The math is impossible. There are 53 million employed persons born after 1981. The number of people holding multiple jobs is 7.7 million, and that’s in all age groups.

    Read More
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  239. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    The removal of tariffs antedated the decline in manufacturing by decades and consumption of manufactures is not sensitive to tariff rates. Japan maintained domestic rice production for decades with a simple strategem: they banned rice imports (and had very expensive rice). Autarchy's never been public policy in this country, even during the Smoot-Hawley era.

    dishonest
    wrong
    true
    straw man

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    dishonest
    wrong
    true
    straw man


    Sorry, buddy. You've manufactured a social fiction. It lives in your head and only in your head.
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  240. Thomm says:
    @Art Deco
    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household?

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21. A single set of wages could maintain a household...except when it couldn't.

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21.

    Facts like this never get in the way of the narrative of a loser like MarkinLA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    the context of the original point was women being able to afford to stay home when they were having kids which means at a certain age so

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21.
     
    appears at first glance to be an argument relevant to the point in question but is in fact the usual dishonest deflection from the point.
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  241. notanon says:
    @Art Deco
    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household?

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21. A single set of wages could maintain a household...except when it couldn't.

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957

    age distribution:
    - young
    - big drop while they had kids
    - back again after kids were old enough

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Yeah but fatso will tell you that his “godmother” was doing important work at the Crocker National Bank in 1956 (she wasn’t even 20!) so that proves you’re all wrong.
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  242. Hibernian says:
    @Art Deco
    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    Your mother is telling you to get out of the basement and play outside.

    I was just in the basement doing laundry and if Mom (b. 1929) calls me and tells me to play outside, I will, for at least 5 min.

    Read More
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  243. notanon says:
    @Thomm

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21.
     
    Facts like this never get in the way of the narrative of a loser like MarkinLA.

    the context of the original point was women being able to afford to stay home when they were having kids which means at a certain age so

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21.

    appears at first glance to be an argument relevant to the point in question but is in fact the usual dishonest deflection from the point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "the usual dishonest deflection from the point"

    Were you expecting anything else from the commenter in question?
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  244. @Jack D
    Robots who pick strawberries - wonderful, fantastic.

    Temporary foreign workers who pick strawberries - bad, evil.

    I don't get it.

    You don’t have to pay a fortune to educate robots, much less pay the various support payments they and their kin shall require.

    There’s no such thing as temporary.

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  245. njguy73 says:
    @Redman
    You think it wouldn’t have? What are you basing that on, the inate brilliance of the DEM foreign policy during the Clinton?

    I’ve never even heard anyone insinuate that 9/11 wouldn’t have happened under Gore. On that issue the uni-party has been pretty consistent.

    That he might not have gone into Iraq is what people usually suggest, which I think makes no sense looking at past patterns.

    I’m saying that no one can say 9/11 would or wouldn’t have happened if Gore was president. It’s pure speculation.

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  246. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics says 5.3% of US jobholders have muliple jobs:

    Persons not in the labor force and multiple jobholders by sex, not seasonally adjusted.

    But then there’s this:

    “More Than 1 in 4 Millennials Work a Side Hustle”, Joshua Sophy, Small Business Trends, Jul 20, 2017.

    “New data from Bankrate shows that 28 percent of Millennials, between the ages of 18 and 26, are working on their own on the side right now…

    …the average Millennial participating in the Bankrate study uses their side job or jobs to make at least $200 a month…”

    “Half of millennials have a ‘side hustle’”, New York Post, November 14, 2017:

    “…50 percent of the young Americans surveyed are currently grinding away outside of their main job…

    …conducted by GoDaddy, found that pursuing side gigs isn’t reserved for the young seeing as many as 24 percent of baby boomers also have a side hustle…

    …the leading reason for people to have a side hustle is out of necessity…

    …61 percent of boomers’ side hustles are started because they need the money…

    …Baby boomers dedicate an average of 15 hours per week to their side hustle, while millennials spend 12 hours on theirs…”

    “More than 44 million Americans have a side hustle”, Anna Bahney, CNN Money, July 12, 2017.

    “Side hustles are the new norm – who’s doing them, what they’re doing”, Ladan Nikravan Hayes, CareerBuilder, August 10, 2017:

    “…According to new CareerBuilder research, nearly a third of workers (32 percent) have side gigs — a trait more common for women than men — 35 percent vs. 28 percent…

    …those under 35 are more likely to have a side hustle (41 percent) versus those over 35 (27 percent). By race/ethnicity, African American workers (46 percent) and Hispanic workers (40 percent) are more likely than White (29 percent) and Asian (26 percent) workers to have a side hustle…

    …One in 4 workers making more than $75k (25 percent) and 19 percent of those making more than $100k currently have a gig outside of their full time job. This is compared to 35 percent of workers making below $50k and 36 percent earning below $35k…”

    Maybe before we get to Argentina we have to go through Italy. Don’t they have a problem with maybe 20% to half their economy “off the books”? USA can do better! ;)

    “Italy’s black economy equals a third of GDP”, Business Standard, January 29, 2016.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon

    Maybe before we get to Argentina we have to go through Italy.
     
    makes sense
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  247. Lagertha says:

    coming from a once, wealthy family: Bushes are caving; not only did they not get another family into court, but, they are bleeding money (big time, btw) with all the non-earning progeny – dumb-ass relatives/suckers-on- I hear Barbara complains about the free loaders.

    But, the Bush family is Exxon, after all, so, they’ve got nuthin.

    Bushes are done, as are the Clintons and Kennedy’s. Those families, like the Romanovs and then royal families of Europe, needed to be destroyed. Millennials demand new people free of shitty parents.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    The Kennedy's (sic) have multiple family members in public life, including their latest village idiot, Congressman Joe Da Turd, picked by his party to give a drooling response to Trump's SOTU.

    Rich political families are like cockroaches; every time you kill one off two more pop up!

    , @Lagertha
    legacies are over.
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  248. Dr. Doom says:
    @Pat Boyle
    There already are farm machines that have a glass enclosed air conditioned driver's compartment where the farmer rides around over his fields while listening to country music on the CD player. So this isn't exactly a crisis where we have to act fast to protect the farmers from heat stroke. But surely John Deere or Mahindra is working on a new model that eliminates the need for the farmer to be in the vehicle at all.

    If we are just about to have on the market all these self driving cars that will evict us from the driver's seat of the family car, surely a self driving tractor can't be too tricky. A self driving automobile requires a lot of sensors and safety equipment. The public roads are laid out in an almost random fashion. Roads go up, roads go down and right and left and all sorts of angles in between.

    But a typical farmer's field is flat and regular. You can plot out the tractor's path ahead of time. You could plant little signal devices in the soil that would guide the tractor or you could have the tractor receive coordinates from a geosynchronous satellite overhead - or any of several other ways. I have a cheap little navigation gizmo in my car that displays the road ahead and computes alternate routes. It has a screen which shows an animation of the route ahead.

    Setting up a farm field for automatic plowing or harvesting seems trivial.

    Those self-driving cars are for old people who were stupid enough not to have kids. They now either have to take cabs or senior trip buses. Reproducing is good for you and your society. Those one night stands with strangers lead to small furry animal issues and having to have low paid minorities that have no qualifications not care for you at taxpayer expense.

    You don’t want some senile old person driving into your home cause they no longer remember the difference between the gas pedal and the brake.

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  249. snorlax says:
    @Jack D
    Robots who pick strawberries - wonderful, fantastic.

    Temporary foreign workers who pick strawberries - bad, evil.

    I don't get it.

    How’s France doing with those temporary Algerians? Or Germany with their temporary Turks? How’d the temporary Visigoths work out for the Romans? Were the temporary Romans good for the Jews?

    Here in Taxachusetts I’m paying temporary income tax (1916), temporary sales tax (1966, since raised in temporary increments from 3 to 6.5%), and temporary tolls on the Mass Pike (1957, and first scheduled to be taken down when the initial 20-year bond issue was paid off in 1975, then when the Turnpike Extension 20-year bonds were paid off in 1984, then when the Big Dig 10-year bonds were paid off in 2001, and most recently when the Big Dig supplemental 20-year bonds were paid off in 2017).

    Ask me again when libs are proposing robot citizenship.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Don't forget the surprise $111 million MBTA budget deficit for FY 2018 that has to be paid for!
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  250. snorlax says:
    @International Jew
    He's an idiot, yeah, but compared to Trump he's Adlai Stevenson.

    An apt analogy, since Adlai was the archetypical “useful idiot.”

    Read More
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  251. anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    Your intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. Cherrypicking “facts” isn’t argument, it’s lying and that makes you a lying liar.

    My suggestion is that you review the thesis you're implicitly defending.

    My suggestion is that you review the thesis you’re implicitly defending.

    My suggestion is that you put down your Schnippers bun-less sloppy joe and put more work into camouflaging your deflections.

    Answer the questions fat boy! You’re always the asshole asking everyone else for a citation while you just spew “facts” that aren’t facts at all. What’s grossly unamusing about your fact-free commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re god’s gift to reasoned argument. You say that almost all women were married by age 21 and then go on to say that your “godmother” was born in 1929 and wasn’t married until 1978. Arithmetic (not math you pompous blubber boy) tells me she was slighty more than 21 when she got married, so I guess by your reasoning she wasn’t a woman? Can you cite a “fact” for that? Or a study? Or a figure from the Bureau of Weights and Measures? You’re warped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You say that almost all women were married by age 21 and then go on to say that your “godmother” was born in 1929 and wasn’t married until 1978.

    No, I said that the median age at first marriage was under 21, which it was. Median, as in half-and-half. No clue why you never learned what a godmother is.


    t your fact-free commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re god’s gift to reasoned argument.

    No, I supply some dry data which contradicts narratives people are invested in, and that pisses them off. The data is out there, if you care what it says.
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  252. anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @notanon

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957
     
    age distribution:
    - young
    - big drop while they had kids
    - back again after kids were old enough

    Yeah but fatso will tell you that his “godmother” was doing important work at the Crocker National Bank in 1956 (she wasn’t even 20!) so that proves you’re all wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    She was 29 in 1956 and promoted within the ranks over the succeeding 30-odd years, like any other salaried employee with a certain degree of competence.
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  253. notanon says:
    @anonymous
    The Bureau of Labor Statistics says 5.3% of US jobholders have muliple jobs:

    Persons not in the labor force and multiple jobholders by sex, not seasonally adjusted.

    But then there's this:

    "More Than 1 in 4 Millennials Work a Side Hustle", Joshua Sophy, Small Business Trends, Jul 20, 2017.


    "New data from Bankrate shows that 28 percent of Millennials, between the ages of 18 and 26, are working on their own on the side right now...

    ...the average Millennial participating in the Bankrate study uses their side job or jobs to make at least $200 a month..."

     

    "Half of millennials have a ‘side hustle’", New York Post, November 14, 2017:


    "...50 percent of the young Americans surveyed are currently grinding away outside of their main job...

    ...conducted by GoDaddy, found that pursuing side gigs isn’t reserved for the young seeing as many as 24 percent of baby boomers also have a side hustle...

    ...the leading reason for people to have a side hustle is out of necessity...

    ...61 percent of boomers’ side hustles are started because they need the money...

    ...Baby boomers dedicate an average of 15 hours per week to their side hustle, while millennials spend 12 hours on theirs..."

     

    "More than 44 million Americans have a side hustle", Anna Bahney, CNN Money, July 12, 2017.

    "Side hustles are the new norm – who’s doing them, what they’re doing", Ladan Nikravan Hayes, CareerBuilder, August 10, 2017:


    "...According to new CareerBuilder research, nearly a third of workers (32 percent) have side gigs — a trait more common for women than men — 35 percent vs. 28 percent...

    ...those under 35 are more likely to have a side hustle (41 percent) versus those over 35 (27 percent). By race/ethnicity, African American workers (46 percent) and Hispanic workers (40 percent) are more likely than White (29 percent) and Asian (26 percent) workers to have a side hustle...

    ...One in 4 workers making more than $75k (25 percent) and 19 percent of those making more than $100k currently have a gig outside of their full time job. This is compared to 35 percent of workers making below $50k and 36 percent earning below $35k..."

     

    Maybe before we get to Argentina we have to go through Italy. Don't they have a problem with maybe 20% to half their economy "off the books"? USA can do better! ;)

    "Italy's black economy equals a third of GDP", Business Standard, January 29, 2016.

    Maybe before we get to Argentina we have to go through Italy.

    makes sense

    Read More
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  254. @notanon
    the context of the original point was women being able to afford to stay home when they were having kids which means at a certain age so

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21.
     
    appears at first glance to be an argument relevant to the point in question but is in fact the usual dishonest deflection from the point.

    “the usual dishonest deflection from the point”

    Were you expecting anything else from the commenter in question?

    Read More
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  255. @Art Deco
    The 70s were an especially difficult era for the wealthy, but prosperity for the working masses. In the tight labor market, wages had climbed so high that the profit margins were absolutely horrendous. So, in the late 70s, business interests pushed back and began to co-opt America’s politicians and media.

    I take it you're fairly young (or you slept through that decade). The era was difficult for the wealthy because real share prices were declining and people who'd bought bonds prior to 1966 saw their real value severely vitiated by the unanticipated inflation which erupted during the period running from 1966 to 1982. Also, capital gains taxes assessed liability on changes in nominal prices (which was and is absurd). Working people who prospered in that era did so because they took out fixed-rate mortgages prior to 1966. Those who had bought savings bonds or had their money in savings banks (whose interest rates were fixed by law) saw their assets lose value. The chronic inflation generated a great deal of discontent, as did the effects of cack-handed government policy meant to contain it (gas lines, for instance). Also, there was around 1970 a reset in levels of economic dynamism. Real production per capita grew at a rate of about 2.3% per year (on average) from 1947 to 1970, and about 2.0% per year from 1970 to 1991. Throughout the period running from 1960 to 1979, the natural unemployment rate was increasing, making it increasingly costly to attempt contain the inflation. You also had declining quality of life in realms not captured by production statistics (crime rates, educational performance). In addition, there were inter-generational issues you hadn't seen prior to 1955 and really haven't seen much of since 1990. There were ancillary matters which also irritated people, such the quality of workmanship in various realms. I'm remembering a late-middle aged technician from Rochester Telephone showing up at our house in 1979 and looking over some cheap work done by another tech a few years earlier and saying, "the telephone company I joined 25 years ago was not the company it is today". It's the sort of comment you expected to hear in that era. (See also, the Chevy Chevette and Ford Pinto).

    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses, even if “the worm was in the bud”.

    (From a UK perspective I remember all the strikes and poor quality of the Brit car industry, and the appearance of the first ultra-reliable though unfashionable Datsun cars, which were to do to Austin and Vauxhall what Honda motorbikes had done to BSA and Triumph a decade before)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses,

    No, the income distribution was somewhat more equalitarian then. That's all.
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  256. @Redman
    I’m not saying it makes sense but those were the times. How soon we forget.

    Why do you think John Kerry and HRC voted in favor of war with Iraq? Because that’s what the damn polls were saying was the wise bet.

    Gore was not the man to stop the rush to
    War with Iraq since he was nothing but a poll watcher like the Clintons.

    Kerry and HRC felt they had to support Bush going to war because he had made the (phony) case for it and it had gathered its own momentum, with his “You’re either with us or with the terrorists” rhetoric. That doesn’t prove that if someone else had been president, they would have chosen the same course.

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  257. @anon
    You keep it up and there’s no Schnippers for you.

    Cheesy, Joe; cheesy!

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  258. @DJF
    Its noticeable that cotton picking machines did not become economic until late WW2 and into the fifties when labor had become scarce and more expensive. Open borders would have stopped that.

    Without that shortage of labor people like Bush would still be on their veranda sipping their mint jubilee and listing to the dark people sing “Pick a Bale of Cotton”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSJZ12iMzvQ

    I wonder what songs the slaves of Abu Dhabi sing?

    Minor point of order: Busb, ¡Jeb!, et al. are carpetbaggers with no meaningful roots or connection to the southern states, they’d be smoking pipes in a manse in New England, perhaps, or playing at croquet.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Busb, ¡Jeb!, et al. are carpetbaggers with no meaningful roots or connection to the southern states, they’d be smoking pipes in a manse in New England, perhaps, or playing at croquet.

    No meaningful connection other than having lived there for decades. In GW's case, about 3/4 of his life has been spent in Texas. In Jeb's, all but about five years has been spent in Texas or in South Florida. Only an odd minority in peninsular Florida are predominantly descended of people who were present there in 1940 - the population has grown 15-fold since then. The population of the three South Florida counties has doubled since Jeb moved there ca. 1985.
    , @Twodees Partain
    True, that. I remember when that little libtard singer said she was ashamed that Bush was from Texas. Libtards are usually confused on minor points like that. She should have known that he's an immigrant.

    W doesn't have a Texas accent, and that gives him away. He sounds like a yankee fratbrat trying to mimic a Texas accent, and his bad grammar comes from his low IQ and poor communications skills.
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  259. @Pat Boyle
    You subscribe to supermarket technology trade journals?

    Steve worked for many years doing research and analysis for marketing consumer goods; he was especially involved with such goings-on in supermarkets.

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  260. Art Deco says:
    @notanon
    dishonest
    wrong
    true
    straw man

    dishonest
    wrong
    true
    straw man

    Sorry, buddy. You’ve manufactured a social fiction. It lives in your head and only in your head.

    Read More
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  261. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous
    Yeah but fatso will tell you that his “godmother” was doing important work at the Crocker National Bank in 1956 (she wasn’t even 20!) so that proves you’re all wrong.

    She was 29 in 1956 and promoted within the ranks over the succeeding 30-odd years, like any other salaried employee with a certain degree of competence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Yes, but internal promotion is largely a thing of the past, and has been for years. I had might as well talk about how easy it was for my great-great-great-great grand-pappy to own his own place: why, he simply showed up in Oklahoma and staked his claim under the Homesteading Act, so I dunno what's the trouble with you lazy, snivelling whipper-snappers nowadays!
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  262. @Art Deco
    She was 29 in 1956 and promoted within the ranks over the succeeding 30-odd years, like any other salaried employee with a certain degree of competence.

    Yes, but internal promotion is largely a thing of the past, and has been for years. I had might as well talk about how easy it was for my great-great-great-great grand-pappy to own his own place: why, he simply showed up in Oklahoma and staked his claim under the Homesteading Act, so I dunno what’s the trouble with you lazy, snivelling whipper-snappers nowadays!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Yes, but internal promotion is largely a thing of the past, and has been for years.

    A statement no less fictional than any other offered here about the economy.
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  263. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And remember, this was in the late '40's, when social norms were tame compared to today. So, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood was pissed off at too many bad hair days and decided to get even with America? If only our barbers had cut his hair the way he wanted, modern Middle East terrorism would never have happened.

    No telling what Sayyid would have thought of a place like Disneyland. Some of the animals that Islam considers to be cursed and unclean being given prominent places as popular entertaining educators of children.

    Bad haircut and then a giant mouse and talking dogs? Too much for one person to handle.

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  264. athEIst says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    Our own Christian 'allies' have, in recent memory, been part of the problem. They have consistently lobbied the government to make sure that our foreign aid to third world countries does not include any funds for abortion or birth control.

    Like so many other issues, this one has become a culture-war battle ground, fought over by hardcore ideologues who really don't give a flying flip about anything other than their narrow little agendas. On the one extreme, you have the hairy-legged feminist types who believe that abortion and birth control are always right, and that they should be provided free of charge by the government and preached in kindergarden. On the other extreme, you have some hair-brained Christians who think that abortion and birth control are always wrong, and that the government should ban them and that your doctor should be forbidden even to mention them to his patients.

    Meanwhile, who's looking out for the rest of us?

    Usage Note: The first recorded use of harebrained dates to 1548. The spelling hairbrained also has a long history, going back to the 1500s when hair was a variant spelling of hare. The hair variant was preserved in Scotland into the 1700s, and as a result it is impossible to tell exactly when people began writing hairbrained in the belief that the word means “having a hair-sized brain” rather than “with no more sense than a hare.” While hairbrained continues to be used, the standard spelling of the word is harebrained.

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  265. @Art Deco
    Feeding Dubya’s favoring of aliens over Americans are his Mommy issues

    What's grossly amusing about this commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you're insightful.

    What’s grossly disgusting about your comment is you apparently think you can read minds.

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    • LOL: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I'm actually reading what you said, which is to offer a retro-psychiatric assessment of someone you wouldn't know from a cord of wood. I'm not interested in your 'mind'.
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  266. @Twodees Partain
    " In his book, Decision Points, Dubya writes very glowingly of their foreign nanny. "

    Please. You don't actually believe he wrote a book, do you? Christopher Michel wrote the book that W is credited with writing. He says he stitched it together from W's notes. I shudder to think of him trying to decipher a grocery bag full of scribblings in crayon and managing to come up with a coherent book, of sorts.

    Of course the Bush boys all have mommy issues. Their mother looks like a scowling old man.

    ha ha – good observation!
    My aim was to direct people to the source of Dubya’s ringing endorsement of his Mexican-substitute-Mommy. It was about page 102 if memory serves.

    I also recall Dubya did not praise is birth mother in his ghost writer’s book . . . what else is wrong with those Bush boys?

    Tangentially related – Do you remember the time G.H.W.B included a remark during a public appearance about how his mother made him eat broccoli while growing up, and how he did not have to do so anymore? I think the leftist-journalist-goon-squad was carping about his eating pork rinds with Tobasco. Seems like that didn’t hurt. The man is in his 90′s and probably will reach age 100, then sky-dive again.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Yes, I remember that. Some growers' association shipped him a big case of broccoli after he made that remark, didn't they? The Bush family is, IMO, a pox on this country that will probably have run its course when old Wobbly dies.

    Even Wobbly himself isn't very intelligent. He just made his way using his family connections and he has no scruples, no morals and probably no soul. His sons are all imbeciles and are no threat to anyone as long as they are kept out of office.
    , @J.Ross

    I also recall Dubya did not praise is birth mother in his ghost writer’s book . . . what else is wrong with those Bush boys?
     
    The one time Warcriminal struck me as human was when he lost his composure as a boy learning that his younger sister had died. His parents didn't lose their composure at all, they went golfing.
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  267. @Harry Baldwin
    I should think the Bush boys all have mommy issues--look at the way old Barbara belittled and undermined Jeb during the campaign. (Perhaps she put America's interests ahead of her family's.)

    Perhaps she put America’s interests ahead of her family’s.

    I remember thinking that at the time.

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  268. Art Deco says:
    @Sarah Toga
    What's grossly disgusting about your comment is you apparently think you can read minds.

    I’m actually reading what you said, which is to offer a retro-psychiatric assessment of someone you wouldn’t know from a cord of wood. I’m not interested in your ‘mind’.

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  269. Art Deco says:
    @Autochthon
    Yes, but internal promotion is largely a thing of the past, and has been for years. I had might as well talk about how easy it was for my great-great-great-great grand-pappy to own his own place: why, he simply showed up in Oklahoma and staked his claim under the Homesteading Act, so I dunno what's the trouble with you lazy, snivelling whipper-snappers nowadays!

    Yes, but internal promotion is largely a thing of the past, and has been for years.

    A statement no less fictional than any other offered here about the economy.

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  270. Art Deco says:
    @Autochthon
    Minor point of order: Busb, ¡Jeb!, et al. are carpetbaggers with no meaningful roots or connection to the southern states, they'd be smoking pipes in a manse in New England, perhaps, or playing at croquet.

    Busb, ¡Jeb!, et al. are carpetbaggers with no meaningful roots or connection to the southern states, they’d be smoking pipes in a manse in New England, perhaps, or playing at croquet.

    No meaningful connection other than having lived there for decades. In GW’s case, about 3/4 of his life has been spent in Texas. In Jeb’s, all but about five years has been spent in Texas or in South Florida. Only an odd minority in peninsular Florida are predominantly descended of people who were present there in 1940 – the population has grown 15-fold since then. The population of the three South Florida counties has doubled since Jeb moved there ca. 1985.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Please excuse my presumption for remembering history before 1940; my own reference point for roots in the southern part of what used to be the U.S.A. dates from colonial times. You see, my people are the lesser, inferior denizens who actually built the place, not like the Bushes and the Jews in Miami, who've so dramatically improved everything they've touched....
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  271. Art Deco says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses, even if "the worm was in the bud".


    (From a UK perspective I remember all the strikes and poor quality of the Brit car industry, and the appearance of the first ultra-reliable though unfashionable Datsun cars, which were to do to Austin and Vauxhall what Honda motorbikes had done to BSA and Triumph a decade before)

    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses,

    No, the income distribution was somewhat more equalitarian then. That’s all.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    No, the income distribution was somewhat more equalitarian then. That’s all.
     
    Data? What data. Did you get this opinion (that's what it is tubby) your "godmother" too?
    , @J.Ross
    What is the difference between equalitarian income distribution and working class prosperity?
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  272. Art Deco says:
    @anonymous

    My suggestion is that you review the thesis you’re implicitly defending.
     
    My suggestion is that you put down your Schnippers bun-less sloppy joe and put more work into camouflaging your deflections.

    Answer the questions fat boy! You’re always the asshole asking everyone else for a citation while you just spew “facts” that aren’t facts at all. What’s grossly unamusing about your fact-free commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re god’s gift to reasoned argument. You say that almost all women were married by age 21 and then go on to say that your “godmother” was born in 1929 and wasn’t married until 1978. Arithmetic (not math you pompous blubber boy) tells me she was slighty more than 21 when she got married, so I guess by your reasoning she wasn’t a woman? Can you cite a “fact” for that? Or a study? Or a figure from the Bureau of Weights and Measures? You’re warped.

    You say that almost all women were married by age 21 and then go on to say that your “godmother” was born in 1929 and wasn’t married until 1978.

    No, I said that the median age at first marriage was under 21, which it was. Median, as in half-and-half. No clue why you never learned what a godmother is.

    t your fact-free commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re god’s gift to reasoned argument.

    No, I supply some dry data which contradicts narratives people are invested in, and that pisses them off. The data is out there, if you care what it says.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    No, I supply some dry data ...
     
    What data fatboy? That the median age at first marriage was under 21? How does an untruthful statistic from the US Census Bureau "prove" that Geo.W. Bush is too qualified to be a bank manager.

    which contradicts narratives people are invested in ...
     
    The fat cells in your brain are clouding your judgement, I never said anything about investing in banks. No one did. I certainly wouldn't invest with your crazy "godmother" who got married after her eggs had rotted. What kind of investment in the future is that?
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  273. Art Deco says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    George W. Bush was invited to be on the board of the very prestigious Carlyle Group, which is a powerful financial group in the world of asset management and private equity.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2003/7/3/democracy_now_exclusive_why_the_carlyle

    DEMOCRACY NOW:In a column posted yesterday on Salon.com, Joe Conason writes: “Preferring to avoid public scrutiny for obvious reasons, executives at the Carlyle Group usually say nothing about their firm’s connections with the Bush dynasty. But last April 23, Carlyle managing director David Rubenstein spoke quite frankly about the comfy sinecure he provided to George W. Bush more than a decade ago — and how useless Bush turned out to be. Whether he knew it or not, Rubenstein’s remarks to the Los Angeles County Employees Retirement Association were recorded.”

     

    Carlyle director David Rubenstein claimed that Bush showed up the board meetings and even collected a paycheck, but didn't add value to the group. Bush did, however, tell lots of dirty jokes. Finally, after 3 years, Rubenstein asked Bush to leave. Rubenstein literally told Bush that he didn't know "that much about the company" and "should do something else. "

    DAVID RUBENSTEIN: But when we were putting the board together, somebody came to me and said, look there is a guy who would like to be on the board. He’s kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. Needs a board position. Needs some board positions. Could you put him on the board? Pay him a salary and he’ll be a good board member and be a loyal vote for the management and so forth.

    I said well we’re not usually in that business. But okay, let me meet the guy. I met the guy. I said I don’t think he adds that much value. We’ll put him on the board because–you know–we’ll do a favor for this guy; he’s done a favor for us. We put him on the board and spent three years. Came to all the meetings. Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years–you know, I’m not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don’t think you’re adding that much value to the board. You don’t know that much about the company.

    He said, well I think I’m getting out of this business anyway. And I don’t really like it that much. So I’m probably going to resign from the board.

    And I said, thanks–didn’t think I’d ever see him again. His name is George W. Bush. He became President of the United States. So you know if you said to me, name 25 million people who would maybe be President of the United States, he wouldn’t have been in that category. So you never know. Anyway, I haven’t been invited to the White House for any things.
     
    It's amazing when you think about it.

    A grown adult man is offered a seat on the board of one of the world's most high-powered private equity groups. Instead of offering strategies to improve corporate profits, this grown man just shows up and tells jokes for 3 years. Finally, he gets fired because he's not doing any real work.

    I don't think I've ever heard of anybody being fired from a corporate board because they chose to tell jokes instead of do real work. Certainly people get fired for other reasons (conflicts over corporate strategy, personality disputes, restructuring, etc), but those people at least showed up and did real work.

    So I guess my point is that Bush is probably not an individual with much business acumen. I wouldn't take his economic views too seriously.

    Of course, that didn't stop him from getting elected (and reelected!) President.

    You mean this David Rubenstein?

    http://www.bushcenter.org/people/david-rubenstein.html

    The particular story your peddling appears to have come from a muckraker magazine journalist named Dan Briody. The problem with muckrakers is that if you’ve got no scandal, you’ve got no book.

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  274. @Art Deco
    Busb, ¡Jeb!, et al. are carpetbaggers with no meaningful roots or connection to the southern states, they’d be smoking pipes in a manse in New England, perhaps, or playing at croquet.

    No meaningful connection other than having lived there for decades. In GW's case, about 3/4 of his life has been spent in Texas. In Jeb's, all but about five years has been spent in Texas or in South Florida. Only an odd minority in peninsular Florida are predominantly descended of people who were present there in 1940 - the population has grown 15-fold since then. The population of the three South Florida counties has doubled since Jeb moved there ca. 1985.

    Please excuse my presumption for remembering history before 1940; my own reference point for roots in the southern part of what used to be the U.S.A. dates from colonial times. You see, my people are the lesser, inferior denizens who actually built the place, not like the Bushes and the Jews in Miami, who’ve so dramatically improved everything they’ve touched….

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  275. Remember in the campaign of 1992, Daddy Bush was seemly fascinated by the supermarket bar code scanner?

    The NYT decided to have there fun with that moment.
    Bush Encounters the Supermarket, Amazed
    By ANDREW ROSENTHAL,
    Published: February 5, 1992

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/05/us/bush-encounters-the-supermarket-amazed.html

    However I guess the NYT has lost there sense of humor and is not reporting to it’s readers or W Bush that no one picks cotton anymore.

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  276. @Redman
    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country.

    Don’t worry about your vote for W. 1. It (your vote) made no difference in the outcome, and 2. You’re likely wrong that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing as Bush after 9/11.

    At least there’s no reason to believe Gore would have behaved differently after 9/11 and stood up against the wave of pro-war feeling in the country propaganda from the media.

    It wasn’t pro-war feeling; it was pro-war propaganda.

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  277. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    You say that almost all women were married by age 21 and then go on to say that your “godmother” was born in 1929 and wasn’t married until 1978.

    No, I said that the median age at first marriage was under 21, which it was. Median, as in half-and-half. No clue why you never learned what a godmother is.


    t your fact-free commentary is that you operate under the illusion that you’re god’s gift to reasoned argument.

    No, I supply some dry data which contradicts narratives people are invested in, and that pisses them off. The data is out there, if you care what it says.

    No, I supply some dry data …

    What data fatboy? That the median age at first marriage was under 21? How does an untruthful statistic from the US Census Bureau “prove” that Geo.W. Bush is too qualified to be a bank manager.

    which contradicts narratives people are invested in …

    The fat cells in your brain are clouding your judgement, I never said anything about investing in banks. No one did. I certainly wouldn’t invest with your crazy “godmother” who got married after her eggs had rotted. What kind of investment in the future is that?

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  278. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses,

    No, the income distribution was somewhat more equalitarian then. That's all.

    No, the income distribution was somewhat more equalitarian then. That’s all.

    Data? What data. Did you get this opinion (that’s what it is tubby) your “godmother” too?

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  279. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    You mean when women stayed home and the single salary of the man could maintain a household?

    About 1/3 of the workforce was female in 1957, at a time when most women were married by the age of 21. A single set of wages could maintain a household...except when it couldn't.

    when most women were married by the age of 21.

    A lie. Median doesn’t mean most. You owe MarkinLA an apology.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    A lie. Median doesn’t mean most. You owe MarkinLA an apology.

    "Most" means the larger share. In this case, that means past the median. The median age at first marriage for women ranged from 20.1 years to 20.9 years over the period running from 1947 to 1972, never higher. About 95% of the women in the United States born prior to 1940 married at some point in their lives. This isn't that difficult.
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  280. @Sarah Toga
    ha ha - good observation!
    My aim was to direct people to the source of Dubya's ringing endorsement of his Mexican-substitute-Mommy. It was about page 102 if memory serves.

    I also recall Dubya did not praise is birth mother in his ghost writer's book . . . what else is wrong with those Bush boys?

    Tangentially related - Do you remember the time G.H.W.B included a remark during a public appearance about how his mother made him eat broccoli while growing up, and how he did not have to do so anymore? I think the leftist-journalist-goon-squad was carping about his eating pork rinds with Tobasco. Seems like that didn't hurt. The man is in his 90's and probably will reach age 100, then sky-dive again.

    Yes, I remember that. Some growers’ association shipped him a big case of broccoli after he made that remark, didn’t they? The Bush family is, IMO, a pox on this country that will probably have run its course when old Wobbly dies.

    Even Wobbly himself isn’t very intelligent. He just made his way using his family connections and he has no scruples, no morals and probably no soul. His sons are all imbeciles and are no threat to anyone as long as they are kept out of office.

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  281. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    I agree with you, but the 70s WAS a time of prosperity for the working masses,

    No, the income distribution was somewhat more equalitarian then. That's all.

    What is the difference between equalitarian income distribution and working class prosperity?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Tight labor markets and general prosperity do not imply a particular income distribution, just that incomes are broadly improving.
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  282. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Sarah Toga
    ha ha - good observation!
    My aim was to direct people to the source of Dubya's ringing endorsement of his Mexican-substitute-Mommy. It was about page 102 if memory serves.

    I also recall Dubya did not praise is birth mother in his ghost writer's book . . . what else is wrong with those Bush boys?

    Tangentially related - Do you remember the time G.H.W.B included a remark during a public appearance about how his mother made him eat broccoli while growing up, and how he did not have to do so anymore? I think the leftist-journalist-goon-squad was carping about his eating pork rinds with Tobasco. Seems like that didn't hurt. The man is in his 90's and probably will reach age 100, then sky-dive again.

    I also recall Dubya did not praise is birth mother in his ghost writer’s book . . . what else is wrong with those Bush boys?

    The one time Warcriminal struck me as human was when he lost his composure as a boy learning that his younger sister had died. His parents didn’t lose their composure at all, they went golfing.

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  283. Why don t you and your family pick some cotton – or do any type of honest work ?

    You re familiar with the concept of honest work ?

    Or are you of the tribe that avoids physical labor?

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  284. Art Deco says:
    @Anonymous

    when most women were married by the age of 21.
     
    A lie. Median doesn't mean most. You owe MarkinLA an apology.

    A lie. Median doesn’t mean most. You owe MarkinLA an apology.

    “Most” means the larger share. In this case, that means past the median. The median age at first marriage for women ranged from 20.1 years to 20.9 years over the period running from 1947 to 1972, never higher. About 95% of the women in the United States born prior to 1940 married at some point in their lives. This isn’t that difficult.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    You think half of 95% is most. This must be how you count calories blubber brain.
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  285. Art Deco says:
    @J.Ross
    What is the difference between equalitarian income distribution and working class prosperity?

    Tight labor markets and general prosperity do not imply a particular income distribution, just that incomes are broadly improving.

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  286. anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Art Deco
    A lie. Median doesn’t mean most. You owe MarkinLA an apology.

    "Most" means the larger share. In this case, that means past the median. The median age at first marriage for women ranged from 20.1 years to 20.9 years over the period running from 1947 to 1972, never higher. About 95% of the women in the United States born prior to 1940 married at some point in their lives. This isn't that difficult.

    You think half of 95% is most. This must be how you count calories blubber brain.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You think half of 95% is most. T

    It doesn't seem to occur to you that a certain number of women get married between the age of 20.5 and 21.0. Some problem sets might help you, Pumpkin.
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  287. @Yan Shen
    Didn't racist whites basically force black slaves to pick cotton on plantations for a number of decades? Imagine if uh John Derbyshire had been around back in those days endlessly telling everyone how on average blacks were more violent and less intelligent relative to members of other ethnic groups, but that white Americans should still be civic minded and treat African Americans as fellow citizens and human beings.

    I think this would make a great plot for a Hollywood movie. While 2018 PC America seems to despise the message the Derb brings to the table, when he travels back in time a couple hundred years, John Derbyshire becomes one of the most progressive and woke white Americans of his era and is forever remembered by history as a uh Good White. By going back and partially negating America's Original Sin, he also spares future generations of the country from an eternity of PC and black worship.

    The other movie idea I've thrown out before involves an alien invasion uniting John Derbyshire and his black counterpart Ta Nehisi Coates.

    (Derbyshire to Coates): "I never realized that when they cut you, you bleed too just like me."

    Yan, we all get it now. You “hate, hate, hate” that Derb is banging one of your tribe’s women. That feeling is completely natural. However, you’re just going to have to deal with it since you or your ancestors felt a white nation was a better place than your native land. If it’s really bugging you every waking moment–as seems to be the case–your should just go back.

    However, your feelings about Derb are not actually relevant to most of Steve’s posts–including this one. I’d suggest coming up with a handy acronym for your feelings–say DECSPMO–and whenever those feelings are to overpowering to contain, just send out that comment. You’ll save yourself and the rest of us cycles and we’ll all still be able to empathize with your pain.

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  288. @notanon
    You are transparently dishonest but i don't know if there's an agenda or simply some kind of compulsive contrarianism. I lean towards the latter.

    Undifferentiated commodities are those whose consumption is most sensitive to tariff rates – raw materials, farm products, &c. Not manufactures.
     
    obvious nonsense

    product X sells for $100 in the USA
    product X costs $80 to produce in the USA -> $20 dollar profit
    product X costs $20 to produce in China (or elsewhere) -> $80 profit

    obvious consequences -> move production offshore and import it back to sell in the US

    it's why
    - there's a massive trade deficit
    - there is such a huge budget deficit
    - so many US corporations are so cash rich