The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Guardian: The Fact That Narrow-Hipped, Narrow-Skulled Kenyans Keep Winning Distance Running Races Has NOTHING to Do with Race, You Racist, You
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From The Guardian:

Superior by Angela Saini review – how science enables racism

The concept of ‘race’ persists, even though it is biologically meaningless. This important book considers why

Philip Ball, Wed 3 Jul 2019 09.00 EDT

Runners, including eventual winner Justin Kemboi from Kenya, compete in the Two Oceans ultra-marathon in Cape Town in 2018.

Many Kenyan running stars have notably narrow skulls, like Melly in the photo above. I wouldn’t be surprised if narrowness of skulls is related to narrowness of the skeletal pelvis. Wider pelvises are better for birthing babies, but worse for efficiency of stride. Kenyan Olympians tend to have narrow pelvises and narrow skulls, which would seem like a reasonable evolutionary package for highland mild climate grasslands inhabited by horseless cowboys who run in search of stray calves.

More than 90% of the top 20 performances in middle- and long-distance running are by black people of African heritage. Are they simply biologically better at it? That is precisely the kind of casual assumption that, as science writer Angela Saini shows in Superior, has kept “scientific racism” alive for centuries. In fact, more than half of those performances are by Kenyans, coming mostly from eight small tribes. One theory is that, having lived at high altitude for millennia, they have adapted to make more efficient use of oxygen when running. But studies have found no physiological advantage, and it’s possible that the answer is instead sociological. One thing is sure: having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language. The idea of “race” has nothing to contribute to the debate.

Nothing!

It’s a little known fact that many Kenyan distance running medalists are the offspring of Bangladeshi fathers and Guatemalan mothers. You’d be surprised. In contrast to racist stereotypes about genealogy, scientists have proven it’s all totally random what children come out looking like. The storks are assigned which babies to deliver by lottery.

That’s just Settled Science.

If you’re a typical Guardian reader, you might feel fine about, or flattered by, the notion that black people are better runners – it sounds positively antiracist, right? Yet this is the sort of reasoning that feeds racism: that there are meaningful biological distinctions between groups of humans (often on the basis of visible, literally superficial characteristics) that allow them to be categorised into distinct “races”, from which we can meaningfully predict traits.

The problem with scientists, Saini says, is that they too often assume they are above racism

The idea is so deeply ingrained that it is hard even to talk about race without seeming to accept its tenets. This doesn’t simply reflect a long history of prejudice. It is also because “race”, defined in terms of skin colour or facial features, was and sometimes still is a rough-and-ready clue to culture: language, cuisine, perhaps religion and shared moral values. It fits with the way we navigate a complicated world using “good enough” rules of thumb. How, then, can it be as biologically meaningless as Saini says?

The answer is subtle, and in this important book Saini – whose previous book Inferior exploded myths around sex differences – does a superb job of explaining it. Genetics has played a central role in debunking race as a biological entity by showing that there are no clear cut genetic subgroups that map on to our conventional notions of race.

Seriously, when people say Race Does Not Exist Scientifically, I think they tend to mean Race Does Not Exist Mathematically. In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

Human beings like certainty. However, most of science outside physics (physics is Dr. Ball’s area), is beset with uncertainty, with, among other disputes, endemic lumping versus splitting controversies.

For example, Does Neighborhood Exist? The concept of “neighborhood” plays a sizable role in the social sciences. On the other hand, nobody knows how to distinguish one neighborhood from another with certainty. For example, the Wikipedia articles on neighborhoods in Chicago are rather contradictory.

Community areas in Chicago
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The community areas in Chicago, as defined by the Social Science Research Committee at the University of Chicago beginning in the 1920s, are 77 geographical divisions of Chicago. They are now used by the City of Chicago for statistical and planning purposes.[1][2] These areas are well-defined and static. Census data are tied to the community areas, and they serve as the basis for a variety of urban planning initiatives on both the local and regional levels.

The Social Science Research Committee at University of Chicago originally defined seventy-five community areas during the late 1920s. At the time, these community areas corresponded roughly to neighborhoods or inter-related neighborhoods within the city. …

Okay, so U. of C. social scientists socially constructed 75 or maybe 77 neighborhoods or “community areas.” But also from Wikipedia:

List of neighborhoods in Chicago
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are sometimes said to be more than 200 neighborhoods in Chicago,[1] though few residents would agree on their names and boundaries. A city ordinance prescribing and mapping 178 neighborhoods[2] is almost unknown and ignored even by municipal departments. Neighborhood names and identities have evolved over time due to real estate development and changing demographics.[3] The City of Chicago is also divided into 77 community areas which were drawn by University of Chicago researchers in the late 1920s.[4] Chicago’s community areas are well-defined, generally contain multiple neighborhoods, and are less commonly used by city residents.[3][5]

So there!

Or not …

In reality, social scientists don’t worry all that much about the fact that they haven’t come up with a “scientific” definition of “neighborhood,” and continue to use whatever they think is reasonable. For example, Harvard economist Raj Chetty, in his search for Magic Dirt and Tragic Dirt, has used “commuting zones,” counties, and Census tracts, which are all quite different, but also rather informative in different ways.

Many people think this proves that social scientists are Not Scientific. But, to me, it’s inherent to the complex nature of reality.

By the way, the reason “race” in the sense of a contest of speed and “race” in terms of a breed are the same word in English is due to the 16th Century English obsession with breeding horses to win horse races.

 
Hide 198 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. KunioKun says:

    I was watching a steroids documentary recently and a science guy gave a great line:

    “What we used to call talent is really just genetic variation.”

    • Agree: HammerJack, bomag
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  2. It would be worthwhile to think of the reasons why Angela Saini and her many allies want to deny this science and demonise those who bring it up. We can all think of the more base and selfish motives behind this but there are also legitimate ones. Saying that different races exist, and that they’re different between the ears, disturbs the peace. In fact, it’s an idea that could turn many societies upside down. I want this current illiberal liberal order replaced but I know too that there has to be a discussion about what should happen if you guys* win the argument in the public square.

    * I say “you guys” simply because genetics doesn’t especially interest me.

  3. Altai says:

    One theory is that, having lived at high altitude for millennia, they have adapted to make more efficient use of oxygen when running. But studies have found no physiological advantage, and it’s possible that the answer is instead sociological.

    But why did it become sociological? Because they noticed their kinsmen kept winning so that now foreign-born Nilothic ringers are recruited to represent many countries in athletics around the world like Spain, Turkey and Qatar. The best askew amateur athletics entirely and trot the globe to win marathons with cash prizes.

    And, of course, if genetic adaption to low oxygen environments may have not been found in Kenya, it has been in the Himalayas and Andes through convergent evolution using different pathways.

    Anyway this reminds me when the 2016 European Athletics Championships were on during the 10km final and the camera was focused on the leaders. I assumed it was the world athletic championship, then I see the Turkish bibs of the two leaders and cue the camera panning out to reveal… the other race behind them, figuratively and literally.

  4. guest says:

    “the kind of casual assumption”

    Yeah. We can observe something over and over again and pour over all the data recorded about long-distance running and Kenyans. But it’s all “casual” because…universities don’t recognize biological race? Except in cases where ignoring it would be too dangerous.

    Long-distance running has no race-based medical consequences or criminal law consequences, so it’s free not to Notice.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    , @Hail
  5. guest says:

    “scientists have proven it’s all totally random what children come out looking like”a

    Not according to Troy McClure:

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  6. The “explorer of myths” writes:

    One thing is sure

    The one thing being that She’s Going to Tell you How to Think about Things.

    • Replies: @gabriel alberton
  7. That was supposed to read Exploder of Myths..

  8. Since we are on the topic of accomplishments by race:

    European Americans put 12 European Americans on the Moon when America was 90 percent European American……This bothered the Hindus in India so much that they came to America LEGALLY to make sure that this never happens…….And on Nov 3 2020 at 8pm Hindu-Jamaican POTUS Kamala Harris will implement the Hindu “Americans” Policy…….of making sure that this never happens again….

    Former head of NASA (((Dan Golden))):”NASA is too OLD MALE AND PALE”………

    For all you Hindu “Americans” out there:NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICANS!!!!!

  9. Tall, short
    Fat, skinny
    Young, old
    Smart, dumb
    Rich, poor

    These social constructs “do not exist scientifically”, and yet … they keep offering enormous value as practical concepts.

    The problem with sentient beings, Saini says, is that they too often assume they are above categorism

  10. Seriously, when people say Race Does Not Exist Scientifically, I think they tend to mean Race Does Not Exist Mathematically. In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

    Mathematics is a tool to work with numbers and/or other – even more abstract – formalized concepts.

    In the social reality of our lives, we, therefore, can only refer to mathematics in order to improve our understanding of things measured and/or calculated – or otherwise dealt with according to the strict rules of this science.

    Other than that, mathematics (and/or formal logic) does not talk to us. Whenever we have a real-world problem in a societal context we want to solve or try to make sense of, this task cannot be solved with mathematics. The sense (or meaning) part is necessarily a question of what to make with the facts, that have (often times, indeed with the help of mathematics) been found or described or quantified before.

    Angela Saini is not throughout a sound writer/thinker/arguer, Steve Sailer is right.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  11. Rosie says:

    Seriously, when people say Race Does Not Exist Scientifically, I think they tend to mean Race Does Not Exist Mathematically. In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

    Human beings like certainty. However, most of science outside physics (physics is Dr. Ball’s area), is beset with uncertainty, with, among other disputes, endemic lumping versus splitting controversies.

    For example, Does Neighborhood Exist? The concept of “neighborhood” plays a sizable role in the social sciences. On the other hand, nobody knows how to distinguish one neighborhood from another with certainty. For example, the Wikipedia articles on neighborhoods in Chicago are rather contradictory

    You’re very charitable, Steve. I suspect the answer is much simpler. The Left is absolutely committed to race denial because it’s all they have. If they concede that Whites exist as a distinct group, it becomes very difficult for them to justify policies that are sure to annihilate us. This was very evident, as usual, in the ~20 minutes of JT’s CNN interview that I was able to stomach listening to.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    , @Anonymous
  12. Flip says:

    They are the same as flat earthers and creationists.

  13. ic1000 says:
    @guest

    The Guardian paid silly smartie Philip Ball to write

    More than 90% of the top 20 performances in middle- and long-distance running are by black people of African heritage. Are they simply biologically better at it? That is precisely the kind of causal assumption that, as science writer Angela Saini shows in Superior, has kept “scientific racism” alive for centuries.

    At least, that’s how I read it the first time through. Makes more sense that way.

  14. ic1000 says:
    @Rosie

    > The Left is absolutely committed to race denial because it’s all they have.

    Seems to me that the Neo-Bolsheviks and their allies sense victory close at hand. So it’s OK for the prestige press to print people like Saini making claims that IQ 100 normies can recognize as baloney.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  15. If “race” doesn’t exist, then is “diversity” just a scam?

    • Replies: @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    , @guest
  16. jim jones says:

    The American disease has spread to the UK:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  17. Human beings like certainty. However, most of science outside physics (physics is Dr. Ball’s area), is beset with uncertainty

    If only physics wasn’t beset with uncertainty…

    In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

    I’m not sure if the ”prime or nonprime” part is accurate for very large numbers… as in, the ones we use arrows to write. Stuff larger than 2^(2^(2^64). But I know that’s not the point…

    Anyway, since race doesn’t biologically exist, and I think it was determined sex doesn’t biologically exist either, why the pressure to change the demographics of, for example, computer scientists? Everyone (human) there ultimately comes from Africa: that’s for sure. We’re all Africans. And inside everyone there is a woman waiting to come out. So nothing needs to be done about it. Everything is as it should be. Saying that’s not the case and calling for all the Asian- I mean white males to be replaced is biologically meaningless. Also racist.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Gordon Shumway
  18. Steve, I did read where you mentioned the narrow hips of the better-striding mothers, etc., but maybe these guys run so well because their heads are streamlined. What kind of decrease in drag coefficient do you think you’d get from a moon-faced Mongolian to that Kenyan marathoner? Of course, drag is not the biggest factor at these 12 mph average speeds, but still, any advantage. Maybe they should learn to run sideways …

    Here are a couple of streamliners neck and neck through the station toward a photo finish:

    Now, here’s a CSX locomotive climbing the grade, 10 miles behind those other two “I think I can, I think I can”:

  19. BenKenobi says:
    @Cagey Beast

    genetics doesn’t especially interest me.

    But genetics is intererested in you.

    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  20. bomag says:
    @Cagey Beast

    It would be worthwhile to think of the reasons why Angela Saini and her many allies want to deny this science and demonise those who bring it up.

    I just figure they are evil.

    Everyone knows the basic truths of race and inheritance; it plays out in the expected ways all around us. That some deny it just feeds their pet narrative.

  21. Sorry, I’ll get serious now. This Mr. Ball is either logically-retarded or a real duplicitous P.O.Crap:

    One thing is sure: having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language. The idea of “race” has nothing to contribute to the debate.

    C’mon, nobody said that the dark skin is what makes these guys fast in the long-distance races! Being dark comes with their race, which also, on a small level, makes these particular tribes fast due to other genetically-based traits. Speaking Kenyan is a cultural thing and is not related to their skin color by genetics.

    Is that some serious bit of purposeful confusion or what? Let me see if I can reproduce this logic myself:

    One thing is sure, when it comes to this “cats always land on their feet because of their genetics” thing: Having whiskers is irrelevant here, as is the meowing. The idea of “species” has nothing to contribute to the debate about cats vs. dogs.

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  22. @Cagey Beast

    “I say “you guys” simply because genetics doesn’t especially interest me.”

    So, you’re content with labelling it badthink and moving on.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  23. @War for Blair Mountain

    Without African American agricultural researcher George Washington Carver, we might not have had our greatest whitebread President, James Earl Carter.

  24. So did 19th and 20th century British colonizers decide to breed faster Kenyans?

  25. Oxford’s engineering program must be a cakewalk if a word salad artist like Angie can get a Masters degree there.

    Would love to see her final thesis, I need some easy laughs.

  26. @ic1000

    No, the Guardian crowd don’t feel victory is close at hand but rather the opposite. They may have felt that way back around 2014 but it’s all been falling apart for them since then.

  27. Anon[732] • Disclaimer says:

    Guardian writer notices that Guardian readers have noticed that East Africans noticably dominate long-distance running. Tells readers there’s nothing to notice here and shames them into stopping noticing.

  28. Corvinus says:

    Of course it is not necessarily about NOTICING the differences, but how those differences are NOTICED and for what purpose. Of course we know that race is real as a construct developed by humans to describe their surroundings. It is just that the race mongerers of the Coalition of the Right and the Left enjoy muddying up the waters.

    There have been studies that have NOTICED the biological angle regarding the differences in black and white athletes.

    https://www.livescience.com/10716-scientists-theorize-black-athletes-run-fastest.html

    We also know that environment plays an integral role as well. Kenya has won an astonishing 63 medals at the Olympic Games in races of 800m and above (21 gold!), since 1968. It turns out it is not Kenya as a whole that usually emerged victorious, but individuals from a region in the Rift Valley called Nandi. So context matters here, since an argument could be made that distance running is a Nandi phenomenon. The success of “black” distance running is concentrated in a decidedly small area, with the vast majority of the continent under-represented.

    
When it comes to the sprints, why has Africa not dominated? The combined forces of several nations (e.g. Guinea-Bissau, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ivory Coast, Togo, Niger, Benin, Mali, the Gambia, Ghana, Gabon, Senegal) have not won a single sprinting medal (to my knowledge) at the Olympics or World Championships; rather, it has been the Jamaicans and the Americans. Just because some black people are good (or bad) at something does not imply that black people in general will be good (or bad) at something. Training, funding, and past success ALL play a role here.

  29. By the way, the reason “race” in the sense of a contest of speed and “race” in terms of a breed are the same word in English is due to the 16th Century English obsession with breeding horses to win horse races.

    The word race, meaning a contest of speed comes from an Old Norse word related to rushing water, as seen in the term “mill race”. See photo.

    The word race meaning a genus or biological group comes from Old French or Italian razza and has cognates in other Latin languages.

    So, no, they are not the same word.

    Interestingly, though, when Englishmen say that a young lady is “well-bred”, they actually mean that she is well-mannered, the hidden assumption presumably being that good manners are inherited from parents. Ill-bred means bad-mannered, not illegitimate birth.

    On the other hand, a dog or horse that is well-bred has a distinguished pedigree, but is not necessarily well behaved.

  30. anon[408] • Disclaimer says:

    Genetics has played a central role in debunking race as a biological entity by showing that there are no clear cut genetic subgroups that map on to our conventional notions of race.

    Psychometrics has played a central role in debunking personality as a psychological entity by showing that there are no clear cut psychological subgroups that map on to our conventional notions of personality.

    There are no scientific classifications for jerks, clowns, angels, milquetoasts, vamps, eggheads, bullies, charismatic devils and wilting wallflowers. As well, jerks can sometimes be angelic and an angel might on occasion act like a jerk. So there’s no point in trying to characterize people since personality is psychometrically meaningless.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  31. A resounding “Touché!” on that last paragraph, iSteve.

  32. This is the same old tired stuff stemming from one big thing only: Africans, blacks, simply cannot make it, as a group, in any type of society which is beyond most primitive.

    They are not the only people unable to cope. Nor can Australian Aborigines, Eskimos, most North American Indians (as peoples), Maoris, Amazonian Indians, Papuans, … Just:

    a) blacks are too numerous

    b) there are too many of them outside of their natural habitat, due to historical circumstances

    c) they phenotypically stick out too much among other big races (whites, American Indians, mixed Caucasians of MENA & India, east Asians, Malay “race”,…). Others find them too different & most often repulsive.

    There is something tragic about that entire race. They invite & cause misfortune. Everything about them seems to me intractable, unsolvable, hopeless & (self)destructive.

  33. Dan Smith says:

    Jimmy “The Greek” Snyder lost his CBS Sports gig in 1988 after he stated in an interview that American black athletes were the product of selective breeding by slave owners in antebellum times. He faced universal condemnation for his remarks, although no one made an attempt to rebut them with evidence. I don’t give the slave owners that much credit, but has anyone looked? Snyder further sealed his fate by suggesting that coaching jobs were the only positions left in sports dominated by whites but that might change because of political pressures to hire more black coaches. CBS pressured Snyder to resign. He refused and CBS fired him. Everybody knows that the racial makeup in professional sports is completely random.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Hail
  34. “By the way, the reason “race” in the sense of a contest of speed and “race” in terms of a breed are the same word in English is due to the 16th Century English obsession with breeding horses to win horse races.”

    The German ‘rasen’ ‘to race’ and ‘Die Rasse’ ‘The Race’ always had me assuming they both came from a Germanic source.

  35. @Cagey Beast

    [I] know too that there has to be a discussion about what should happen if you guys* win the argument in the public square.

    Separate countries for separate races.

  36. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cagey Beast

    * I say “you guys” simply because genetics doesn’t especially interest me.

    It seems that it does interest you. What do you understand the phrases “interests you” and “doesn’t interest you” to mean.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  37. anon[408] • Disclaimer says:

    One thing is sure: having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language. The idea of “race” has nothing to contribute to the debate.

    Now they tell me. All that time and money wasted painting myself black when competing in high school track meets.

    So, if biology has nothing to do with Kenyan success in middle distance and long distance running, there must be a conspiracy. Using crowbars on promising young white and Guatemalan runners? Bribing IOC officials? Closely guarded juju secrets? Running Protocols of The Learned Elders of Kenya? Exotic medicinals? All of the above?

  38. notanon says:
    @Cagey Beast

    Saying that different races exist, and that they’re different between the ears, disturbs the peace.

    this is a key point and one HBDers need to recognize.

    two broad groups oppose the truth

    1) evil people who want to create a planet of 85 IQ slave-cattle

    and

    2) good people who think group differences in genetic traits are carved in stone and would lead to a permanent racial caste hierarchy – which they can’t deal with for ideological or emotional reasons.

    so pointing out to the 2nd group that group genetic differences are extremely plastic (over generations) would help them to switch sides.

    for example if women on average make babies with men on the left and right sides of their population’s Bell curve in roughly 50/50 proportions then shifting it to 40/60 would increase that populations’s average IQ.

    and all you’d need to do to achieve that is tell the truth and women would change their behavior on their own.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Cagey Beast
  39. @KunioKun

    Steve’s point is that concrete reality isn’t that exact. Genes are a piece, but not the whole piece.

    But advancement currently is highly correlated with abstract thinking, both capacity for and inclination toward, so clean, crisp categorical statements are unduly favored.

    We need more Aristotle and less Plato.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Reg Cæsar
  40. @Jonathan Mason

    the hidden assumption presumably being that good manners are inherited from parents.

    Or that good breeding includes both nature and nurture.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Wayne_Lukas

  41. [T]he reason “race” in the sense of a contest of speed and “race” in terms of a breed are the same word in English is due to the 16th Century English obsession with breeding horses to win horse races.

    Isn’t the act of running and the event from Germanic ras (“running”), but the group of related people from Latin radix (“root”) or Germanic reiza (“line”) – possibly Latin (via French) haraz (“troop of horses”) or Arabic ra’s (“head”).

    It’s a case of a kind of false cognate that can be confusing; the two words with two distinct meanings entered English separately from two different languages, but just happened to sound alike enough that time moulded them into homonyms; emphasised by their nexus in the context of racing horses, where both were used together a lot – which is maybe what you meant, but it’s not, I don’t think, “due to” that coincidence….

  42. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    The Left is absolutely committed to race denial because it’s all they have.

    Jews are set against Europeans gaining knowledge and understanding of the significance of genetics because race/genetics heretofore have de facto been a such a powerful weapon employed by Jews in competing against other groups. It is like when you don’t want your rival to learn the secret formula, or a country doesn’t want another country to develop nukes.

    If they concede that Whites exist as a distinct group, it becomes very difficult for them to justify policies that are sure to annihilate us.

    Please explain how you reasoned to this conclusion.

  43. British people are very naive about race and genetics and tend to believe that race is simply about skin color in a very binary way. Either you are black, or you are not black, but all blacks are the same.

    For example it is beyond their comprehension that Dominicans can have negative feelings towards Haitians since they are all (in the opinion of British people) equally black, so it is a question of the pot calling the kettle black.

    Never mind that people who are actually used to a multiracial environment realize that there are all kinds of gradations and subtle differentiations.

    So no surprises in opinion pieces published by The Guardian.

    The ability to run long distances fast is all about power-to-weight ratios and we all know that the Kenyan runners grow up living at altitude, which is a huge advantage in developing oxygen processing ability, but I wonder if possibly they also have lighter bones than Westerners, although this is kind of a circular argument, because if you weigh more, you will develop thicker bones to carry the weight, and if you are very skinny, you will not develop big bones.

    Narrower pelvises, if true, would make for a more efficient running stride.

    Clearly if traditionally white countries want to produce the best distance runners, they need to implement careful runner-breeding programs at altitude, using as parents the people with slight frames, long legs, narrow pelvises and living at altitude. The program should be based at the University of Colorado and funded for two hundred years.

  44. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    We need more Aristotle and less Plato.

    What does this even mean?

    • Replies: @Aft
  45. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    because if you weigh more, you will develop thicker bones to carry the weight, and if you are very skinny, you will not develop big bones.

    Develop or evolve?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  46. @Dieter Kief

    Steve’s speaking metaphorically. A more exact way of putting it would use Arithmetically of Diophantically or something, but comfort with some level of inexactitude is the point of the post, so he’s practicing what he’s preaching.

    In engineer-speak, the metaphor satisfices.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  47. Kenya is on the Eastern side of Africa.

    I think the USA gots slaves from West Africa.

    East Africans run upright for long time and eat khat and drink khat tea for sustenance and energy.

    West Africans run hunched over for speed and power and the ability to move from side to side to evade tacklers and stand alone clothing rack stanchions on wheels.

    These observations are all very unscientific and neither Philip Ball nor Ed Dutton nor Angela Saini would find them to be of any use.

    Watch these USA Blacks and USA Mulattos in Wisconsin, presumably of West African origins, hunch down and weave around stand alone clothing racks — while holding stolen garments — with great speed and agility:

  48. Anonymous[209] • Disclaimer says:

    Actually, I believe horse-racing was introduced into England in the 17th century by the Italians – possibly descended from Roman practice. King Charles II was the great exponent of horse racing in England.

  49. Alfa158 says:

    “having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language.”
    The important color here is red, as in red herring. Of course dark skin pigmentation is irrelevant, but no one is arguing that. What is relevant is the overall genetic inheritance of which dark skin is just one trait. Where would these writers ( I’m not going to call them scientists) be without a ready supply of red herrings and straw men? Pretending this is about skin color is a favorite one.

    • Agree: Desiderius, Logan
  50. @Desiderius

    We need more Aristotle and less Plato.

    I’ve always dismissed Plato as a nut too smart for his (and our) good. So it was a bit of a surprise when I took an online quiz to determine “what kind of thinker you are” and get labeled a Platonist.

    Aristotle is fine, though I lean to Lao-Tse and Jesus.

    Buddha nailed it, though, with his critique of desire. Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you get.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  51. Why are those black guys in green running from the white guys on bikes? Do the latter have nooses?

    Or did the Tour de France catch up with the Boston Marathon?

    • LOL: Bubba
    • Replies: @International Jew
  52. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    According to etymological opinion ‘race’ as in sporting contest derives from the Old English, and thus ancient Germanic, and originally meant ‘a rush, a flow’ . Hence the usage in the archaic ‘Mill race’ – a pond serving a waterwheel, and ‘ball race’ as in engineering.

    ‘Race’ as lineage of descent is believed to originate from the Italian ‘razzia’, meaning the same.

  53. @Cagey Beast

    In fact, it’s an idea that could turn many societies upside down.

    No it wouldn’t, it would turn them right side up again, at which point we all might take an unhealthy interest in the people hiring these writers and their dereliction of their duties.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  54. @Reg Cæsar

    Meh, that’s a little on the womanish side. For a man it’s a mix of the chocolate and the peanut butter.

    “A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?”

    – Browning

    Likewise the genius of Jesus and Lao-Tse was their integration of the concrete and abstract. The Word became Flesh. It did not cease to be the Word.

    Morality

    BY MATTHEW ARNOLD

    We cannot kindle when we will
    The fire which in the heart resides;
    The spirit bloweth and is still,
    In mystery our soul abides.
    But tasks in hours of insight will’d
    Can be through hours of gloom fulfill’d.

    With aching hands and bleeding feet
    We dig and heap, lay stone on stone;
    We bear the burden and the heat
    Of the long day, and wish ’twere done.
    Not till the hours of light return,
    All we have built do we discern.

    Then, when the clouds are off the soul,
    When thou dost bask in Nature’s eye,
    Ask, how she view’d thy self-control,
    Thy struggling, task’d morality—
    Nature, whose free, light, cheerful air,
    Oft made thee, in thy gloom, despair.

    And she, whose censure thou dost dread,
    Whose eye thou wast afraid to seek,
    See, on her face a glow is spread,
    A strong emotion on her cheek!
    “Ah, child!” she cries, “that strife divine,
    Whence was it, for it is not mine?

    “There is no effort on my brow—
    I do not strive, I do not weep;
    I rush with the swift spheres and glow
    In joy, and when I will, I sleep.
    Yet that severe, that earnest air,
    I saw, I felt it once—but where?

    “I knew not yet the gauge of time,
    Nor wore the manacles of space;
    I felt it in some other clime,
    I saw it in some other place.
    ‘Twas when the heavenly house I trod,
    And lay upon the breast of God.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  55. @Jonathan Mason

    Thomas Hardy was proud of his Norman ancestors. Hardy featured a mill race or some other turbulent water way as a dramatic spot for a death scene.

  56. @Desiderius

    That’s why my Jewish billionaire overlord told me to post that comment. He’s terrified of hardcore truth tellers like yourself.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Desiderius
  57. @Desiderius

    Your very name means “desired”, so I detect a conflict of interest.

    https://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  58. @Jonathan Mason

    British people are very naive about race and genetics and tend to believe that race is simply about skin color in a very binary way. Either you are black, or you are not black, but all blacks are the same.

    A Wog is a Wog is a Wog — Gertrude Limey

    The Wogs begin over the next hill — provincial English bastard

    The Wogs begin at Calais — cosmopolitan English bastard

    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Anonymous
  59. Anon[201] • Disclaimer says:

    OT, although Saini’s previous book Inferior was about gender.

    I think I’ve discovered a new variant of gender blank slatism: infertility “blame allocation.”

    I followed a link from a woman’s blog saying that fertility “blame” overall is equal between the male and female in a couple. The link target said something like 30 percent women, 30 percent men, 40 percent joint (the latter presumably some minor problem in each partner that adds up to infertility).

    I Googled, and websites had varying figures, but they are always the same for women and men …

    … Except when you look at WHO figures or published papers, where it’s mostly women to blame. Which is what you’d expect: Women have an extremely complex reproductive system, while men have two simple germ cell factories tubed into a squirt gun. All the hard stuff happens in the woman, and she drops one germ cell to millions of male germ cells. The male cells can live for days in the woman.

    Another problem with the data is that they do not control for age differences in couples: women tend to be younger, often by quite a bit. And some data hilariously counted vasectomy as a male “infertility” cause.

    So I guess it’s sexist and misogynistic and patriarchal to say that women are more often the cause of fertility difficulties, and the reason is often because they waited until they were in their thirties to try to conceive.

    • Replies: @Aft
  60. El Dato says:

    Seriously, when people say Race Does Not Exist Scientifically, I think they tend to mean Race Does Not Exist Mathematically. In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

    As The Bard once said, “As You Like It”!

    We have:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_set

    “In mathematics, fuzzy sets (aka uncertain sets) are somewhat like sets whose elements have degrees of membership.”

    We have Quantum Mechanics, which is a mathematical description based on superpositions of crisp states. I’m sure one can also invent a number that is somewhat prime and somewhat nonprime, a Schrödinger’s prime number as it were. If you absolutely need to.

    What people actually mean is “I don’t want this to exist because believing this means I would be a Bad Person.”

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  61. El Dato says:

    One theory is that, having lived at high altitude for millennia, they have adapted to make more efficient use of oxygen when running. But studies have found no physiological advantage

    Kenyan runners just want to run fast more than you do.

  62. sondjata says:

    “The concept of ‘race’ persists, even though it is biologically meaningless. This important book considers why”

    Never mind the picture of black people running….

  63. sondjata says:

    ” One thing is sure: having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language. The idea of “race” has nothing to contribute to the debate. ”

    Please don’t notice the linked trait!

  64. El Dato says:

    Reviewer Philip Ball is described as a “Science Writer” but he sounds me like a someone writing from the lower reaches of the sociology rabbithole.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/06/live-birth-dead-donor-definition-motherhood-transplants-pregnancy

    But uterus transplants also raise complicated questions for feminism. “There is a feminist position that supports the uterus transplant, arguing that it allows women … to be included in an experience that is, for some, central to and defining of femaleness,” wrote body theorist Sharrona Pearl. But, she added, that is part of the problem: “The uterus transplant supports the social norm of pregnancy as fundamental to being a woman.” Uterus transplants imply that the risks of the procedure are worth it, says Pearl, “in order to fulfil women’s alleged biological destiny as carriers of future children”.

    This tension is nothing new. Ever since the early discussions of assisted reproductive technologies (ART) such as IVF in the 1920s, they have split opinion about the implications for gender roles and female choices in particular. The idea promoted then by biologists such as JBS Haldane of gestation in artificial wombs – ectogenesis – was welcomed by progressives as an emancipating technology that would free women from the duties of childbearing and the associated constraints on opportunity.

  65. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @notanon

    and all you’d need to do to achieve that is tell the truth and women would change their behavior on their own.

    This idea seems potentially interesting but I do not fully understand it. What specifically are you positing that women would be told in this scenario?

    • Replies: @notanon
  66. Unlike in the English Language, in French and Spanish the word “race” is used for both people and animals. Meaning one can speek of Les races (the races) du chiens (of dogs) and Les races humaines (the human races) in French and Las razas de perros (dog races) and Las razas humanas (human races) in Spanish. Maybe if we started calling Pitbulls and Greyhounds and Huskies and Beagles “races” instead of breeds people would see how manifestly absurd it is to say that human races are mere “social contructs.” Leftist intellectualoids would have a harder time convincing the public of the nonsense about races not existing if it were common place to speak of dog races (or other animal species races).

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  67. Bugg says:

    “One thing is sure: having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language.”

    Objectively, no. Light-skinned Anglo-Celts like Eamon Coughlan and Sebastian Coe might have have been great distance runners, but they did their best in stadium tracks and indoor arenas.Being fair skinned on a hot sunny summer day is a disadvantage. Alberto Salazar was probably at an advantage being of Cuban-Spanish stock.

    And as to women, as with soccer, 3rd world African women were not as inclined to participate in sports until recently.

  68. When statistics and probability distributions are involved, I like to use this analogy to make the abstractions more visually obvious: “When looking at two hills in the distance, it’s impossible to say precisely where one hill ends and another begins. Therefore, hills do not exist.” It has the added bonus of injecting some “flat-earther” innuendo into the discussion.

    • Replies: @Lucas McCrudy
  69. Logan says:

    I have a question I hope somebody can help with.

    Seems to me human “races” are quite remarkably similar to sub-species among animals or plants. They have distinguishable characteristics but interbreed freely, so along the zones where their ranges meet they are often interbred, sharing characteristics of both.

    There is thus no precise distinction between them, but no reasonable biologist would therefore say sub-species don’t exist.

    I tried to look up the idea of race and human sub-species and just ran across dozens of articles that said, “No, human races are absolutely nothing like sub-species and don’t you bring it up again, you racist you!” Generally with no attempt whatsoever to explain why the two concepts should be considered entirely different.

    So are human races similar to sub-species? If not, why not?

    • Replies: @Aft
    , @Jonathan Mason
  70. Logan says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Don’t forget “Africa begins at the Pyrenees.”

  71. Logan says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Some decades ago I lived in the CO mountains. Every year they had an ultra-marathon in Leadville, which is very high altitude, and the race went even higher.

    World-class athletes would show up and every year just got pounded into the pavement by the (very) amateur locals. Those who live at high altitude become adapted to it. Duhh.

    As I understand it, long-distance runners finally figured this out and began living and training at high altitude. So I suspect the locals no longer have the advantage there.

    Of course, if altitude is the main issue, why don’t Tibetans or Quechas dominate distance running? They live at much higher altitudes than Kenyans.

  72. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cagey Beast

    ‘There is not a truth existing which I fear, or would wish unknown to the whole world.’

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  73. Aft says:
    @Anonymous

    We need more Aristotle and less Plato.

    I like that. More Aristotle (observation-based heuristics for navigating complex reality) and less Plato (silly categorical and over-logical thinking and general sophistry).

    One matches the childish, moralizing over-simplifying tone of the left and the other matches the wisdom of the mature right who have grappled with the fact that complex choices must be made under uncertainty.

    Everything about today’s over-simplifying left was figured out decades ago by Thomas Sowell (see especially The Vision of the Annointed, “which brands the anointed as promoters of a worldview concocted out of fantasy impervious to any real-world considerations”–sounds a lot like today’s crazy-ignorant left. Even when they’re “smart” it’s skill at manipulating binary labels and moralizing devoid of any contact with or acknowledgement of actual reality.)

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  74. @Anonymous

    I don’t follow your meaning. What I meant was that genetics is a subject that hasn’t captured my imagination. I’m against mass immigration and multiculturalism for other reasons.

  75. Aft says:
    @Anon

    A simple lifetime fertility curve will solve this one quickly. Female subfertility is 50-50 at 31! Sterility, zero ability to bear offspring, for half of women at 41!

    That’s maybe 10 years of great fertility, 10 years of adequate fertility, and 10 years of oops you waited too long. Followed by another 40 years of: didn’t you realize you were supposed to have children and not be a bitter old cat lady?

    Men have 30 years of exceptionality high quality gametes, followed by another couple decades if they’re still in good health. All the nonsense about male paternal age is also nonsense: women are the sole cause of chromosomal abnormalities and older 30ish and 40ish women spontaneously miscarry upwards of 50-90%. There is basically no evidence of male paternal age effects (theoretical arguments about “over thousands of years” mean precisely that, near-zero effect per generation).

    Women control the propaganda around these issues (or people soften it for them) because they can’t take the sting to their id that their bad choices ultimately come back to bite them. (Despite all effort of the left to convince people nothing is your fault ever!!!)

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  76. Of course. It’s race.

    Except that blacks from Congo or Senegal or Sudan or South Africa don’t count. They must not be black.

    You idiots.

  77. Why are you idiots so concerned with trivial boring irrelevant crap like this? Is it possibly because you are part of the PTB project to eternally prevent people from asking where the money went by keeping them blabbering about inconsequential nonsense?

    I bet it is. I bet you are doing your duty. Congratulations.

    • Replies: @mikemikev
  78. Aft says:
    @Logan

    In short, yes. The Fst (genetic relatedness) between those who left Africa and those who didn’t is enormous, on par with the value usually used to indicate different species.

    There is something like 8x more genetic distance between Africans and non Africans than there is between whites, Asians, and Hispanics. Obviously that doesn’t correspond precisely with phenotypes we care about today (or want to pretend don’t differ between “races”) but it is true genetically.

  79. @Anonymous

    Develop or evolve?

    Develop.

  80. @Logan

    Of course, if altitude is the main issue, why don’t Tibetans or Quechas dominate distance running? They live at much higher altitudes than Kenyans.

    The modern Olympic sports of track and field were developed in Britain. Kenya was a British colony with an educational system that promoted British sports like track and field and cross-country.

    The Tibetans would probably excel if there was a long distance cross-country yak-herding race.

  81. Mr. Anon says:

    Human beings like certainty. However, most of science outside physics (physics is Dr. Ball’s area), is beset with uncertainty, with, among other disputes, endemic lumping versus splitting controversies.

    Physics is not immune from statistical considerations.

    Take, for example, a sample of gas: some of the molecules are moving slow, some are moving fast. Now take two separate samples: in sample 1 there are molecules moving faster than almost all of the molecules in sample 2, even though the mean molecular speed in sample 2 is higher than that of sample 1. So clearly there is no real meaning to the concept of mean molecular speed.

    Except that it is also called “temperature”, and sample 1 is air at 25 deg. Fahrenheit, whereas Sample 2 is air at 80 deg. Fahrenheit.

    Or take two samples at the same temperature. They are represented by a distribution function which could be displayed as a density plot on a 3-D graph; the plot would take the form of a sphere. The centroid of sample 2 is shifted ever so slightly from that of sample 1. The difference between them is almost imperceptible to the eye, so that the two distributions plotted together would look like one, very-slightly blurry, sphere. No real difference.

    Except that sample 1 is air on a calm, still day, and sample 2 is a 120 mph wind in a raging hurricane.

  82. Aft says:

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR6yB3pKQznrtFKyEySLIEiZIBNWPmvmDMftfkI_sYrVmVzX52r

    No “clear cut” genetic subgroups?

    A pure African and a pure white or pure Asian or pure Amerindian would never be confused by the simplest or dumbest person with the most limited set of information to go on. Nor to a geneticist with even a portion of a chromosome.

    Saying some people are mixed so nothing is clear cut is missing the point entirely.

    This doesn’t mean traits don’t overlap, and it’s softened by the the hefty admixture of European heritage in African Americans and Hispanics, but still this book sounds like total nonsense.

    The Sports Gene is a better introduction to the subject and a better book, if you’re looking to embrace rather than deny reality.

  83. @Logan

    Every year they had an ultra-marathon in Leadville, which is very high altitude, and the race went even higher.

    Probably the visiting runners also got lead poisoning in their hotel water supply.

  84. Mr. Anon says:
    @Anonymous

    What kind of monster would say such a thing? Surely, nobody we would ever name cities and counties after, or honor with statues and monuments.

  85. @notanon

    I agree with your two categories of opponents and would add a third. I’m thinking of the relatively recent immigrant communities from that huge swath of humanity that’s not White or Black. I’m thinking of people from places like Latin America, India, China and North Africa who know there are differences between the races but want to continue to work the anti-White system they found when they moved here. Like with any big issue, people can mix and use all three justifications over the course of their lives.

  86. Mr. Anon says:
    @Cagey Beast

    * I say “you guys” simply because genetics doesn’t especially interest me.

    I would refer you to Trotsky.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  87. @Dan Smith

    He got fired for suggesting that blacks may lack the necessities to be managers. When asked to clarify ( between all and some, this was left ambiguous in an ominous portent of things to come) he flubbed it and got axed.

    The distinction between the categorical and the merely probable/possible was then understood to be crucial. Not so for Summers or Damore.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
  88. @Reg Cæsar

    Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.

  89. @El Dato

    one can also invent a number that is somewhat prime and somewhat nonprime

    Don’t think that’s how it works, which is part of the fascination with primes. As with all things mathematical, I’m totally stoked to be proven wrong because that’s when the fun stuff happens.

    “I don’t want this to exist because believing this means I would be a Bad Person.”

    No, it means you would be a bad person. Being an SJW is all about falsely demonizing others to avoid the true demons within.

  90. @Paco Wové

    Sure man, that’s exactly what I’m saying. No I’m saying the study of genetics doesn’t especially interest me.

  91. @Mr. Anon

    If Trotsky were here, what would he tell me?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  92. Many moons ago, when I took my Geography exams at age 16, one of the questions showed a picture of a Masai tribesman and an Eskimo and asked the examinee to write a couple of paragraphs describing the most obvious physical differences and how they might be adaptations to local environmental conditions.
    Any idea if this sort of thing is still included in school syllabi, or is this now bad noticing?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  93. @Aft

    More, not only. But yeah, our ruling class is listing to the Platonic. We need to argue an integration/synthesis of the two rather than the merely Aristotelian (noble savage) or a slapdash amalgamation (STEM).

  94. @Cagey Beast

    Cagey Beast indeed!

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  95. @Logan

    So are human races similar to sub-species? If not, why not?

    Sort of, but subspecies in animals are usually a term applied for the sake of convenience to identify populations of the same animal that are unlikely to interbreed, for example Indian and African elephants.

    Different types of dogs are regarded as all being of the same species canis canis, so for example a chihuahua is not a different subspecies from a greyhound even though they look and behave differently. However all dogs have been found to be a subspecies of gray wolf and share the same barcodes in their DNA.

    So humans are a bit like dogs, just one big happy family, as described per the book of Genesis. Dogs are differentiated from foxes, jackals and other canid species, which share some common features.

    However dogs and cats are quite different as all dogs walk moving diagonally opposite paws at the same time, whereas all cats move both legs on the same side together (like camels and giraffes, but are not related.)

    In the case of humans there ARE subspecies, but they are all extinct, for example Neandertals.

    For practical purposes, such as human rights, it is necessary to regard all human races and hybrids as one species, descendants of Adam and Eve, and also of Noah and his family, so although many of Darwin’s discoveries can be seen as undermining the Bible as a source of scientific knowledge, the notion that all humans are part of one family has endured.

    However, it was not always so. For example Dred Scott had no standing before the Supreme Court, because he was not regarded as a qualified human. However the Supreme Court has changed its tune.

    • Replies: @Flip
    , @Logan
    , @Logan
  96. And yet they never have a problem classifying a white man as a white man. That one they somehow know is real.

  97. Mr. Anon says:

    I understand that Saini’s next book will be entitled Maleus Geneficarum – Hammer of Racists.

  98. Steve

    You might want to make post about Saini’s book GEEK POWER…just reading about it to a get a whiff of Hindu Supremacy….India’s rise to GEEK POWER was based upon a deliberate labor policy decision on the part of treasonous UK and US Elites not to develope homegrown NATIVE WHITE TALENT…actually to destroy it over time…..Saini couldn’t possibly be oblivious to this obvious fact….In fact she is not doubt an enthusiast for this policy when she boasts:”Half the STEM PhDs in the US are Indian….”

  99. Dr Who says:

    “Dachshund” is just a social construct wolves use to keep dachshunds down.

    “Clydesdale” is just a social construct Arabian horses use to keep Clydesdales in the yoke of the beer cart.

  100. @BenKenobi

    Oh maybe that’s the quote from Trotsky that Mr Anon was alluding to?

  101. IMHO Aristotle is overrated as a protoscientist. Sure, he liked to make observations. But then he would induce some speculative explanation that (maybe not his fault) ended up becoming received wisdom based solely on his “authority.”

    Plato is like the original progressive. Abstraction rules over reality. Not coincidentally, he believed in rule by elite philosopher kings.

  102. Saini NOTICES that half the STEM PHDs in the US are awarded to Indians and she very much likes this….Check our her Hindu-Sihk Supremacist book:GEEK POWER…..

  103. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Seriously, when people say Race Does Not Exist Scientifically, I think they tend to mean Race Does Not Exist Mathematically. In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

    No, there’s both discrete and continuous mathematics. The former deals with discrete concepts or properties like integers, sets, truth values (e.g. true or false), etc. Continuous math includes things like calculus and geometry that deal with continuous functions, properties, and concepts like lines and curves.

    So when people say race does not exist, they’re not saying it does not exist mathematically. It’s a philosophical or metaphysical debate that is supposed to supersede science or math. It’s a debate over nominalism vs. universalism, Idealism vs. Realism. The people who deny race basically argue from a position of philosophical Idealism, and they’re primarily influenced by Nietzsche and the postmodernist philosophers, who in turn were influenced by German Idealism.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  104. Anonymous[399] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    That hoary old phrase ‘wogs begin at Calais’ is due to that stalwart old Labour MP, later peer, George Wigg – for that was his name.
    He meant it an ironic, facetious sense, mocking an opponent’s parochialism.

    The phrase was famous and somewhat ubiquitous back in the ’60s and ’70s, but now seems distinctly on the wane.

    • Replies: @jim jones
  105. “it’s possible that the answer is instead sociological”

    LOL.

    “Whites are too lazy to do all the training to win the 100 metres”

    “If Samoans were raised in a Highland Kenyan tribe, they’d be good distance runners”

  106. Anonymous[399] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    They are natural born survivors.
    In the Darwinian sense, they have right complement of attributes and personality traits simply to thrive no matter what.
    Hat tip:
    They will still be here when everyone else is gone.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  107. @Desiderius

    Are you Mike Tyson in this exchange or am I? Maybe you’re Don King, I’m the ref and Trotsky is Mike Tyson?

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @El Dato
  108. So, I’m probably the last one to realize this, but I will type it anyways.

    Has anyone else noticed that Ms. Saini’s entire output can be read as arcing towards Sailer’s First Law of Female Journalism?

    Just sayin’

  109. jim jones says:
    @Anonymous

    Whenever I have coffee with my Leftist neighbour and he starts talking about “Asians” I say “do you mean “Wogs?”

  110. anon[175] • Disclaimer says:

    “How science can lead to racism.”

    Here’s an article from Conservapedia entitled “Evolutionary belief and sexual immorality.”* Its amazing how much of the anti-evolution argument is use by the Guardian here. “Science hurt fee fees. Science bad. Bad people do science. Hitler just like science. You just like science, you just like Hitler!”

    “The research survey of 1535 people, conducted by the Australian National University, revealed that belief in evolution is associated with moral permissiveness. Darwin himself apparently feared that belief in evolution by the common man would lead to social decay. The survey showed that people who believed in evolution were more likely to be in favour of premarital sex than those who rejected Darwin’s theory. Another issue which highlighted the contrast between the effect of evolutionary ideas and that of biblical principles was that Darwinians were reported to be ‘especially tolerant’ of abortion.”

    *https://www.conservapedia.com/Evolutionary_belief_and_sexual_immorality

    Oh, and check this out: Evolution and Nazism

    https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Evolution

    Better yet: Darwinism and racism

    “Evolution establishes a “scientific” rationale for racism by extending the “great chain of being” to humanity. Just as animal species are ordered into a hierarchy according development, so too the “races of men” are described as being more or less developed than others.”

    Thesis confirmed. Science leads to racism. So, we must ban the teaching of evolution in schools now. Don’t think it can’t come to that.

  111. One thing is sure: having dark skin pigmentation is as irrelevant here as speaking a Kenyan language. The idea of “race” has nothing to contribute to the debate.

    Another liar who pretends race and skin color are the same thing.

  112. @Cagey Beast

    It’s a totally fair question: “What would happen if it became socially acceptable to acknowledge genetic racial differences?”

    It would be a paradigm shift for respectable society, that’s for sure. But no individual’s IQ or traits are actually being changed by the epiphany.

    Everyone is still an individual and there is no reason to depart from the current ethos that each person should be judged on their own merits. All the laws and mores about not over-generalizing based on group membership would be the same.

    However, acknowledging the truth would remove a massive source of cognitive dissonance that is propelling Leftist insanity. Namely, the Left’s inability to explain observed disparities between groups in any way other than “oppression and racism by white people.”

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  113. It is also because “race”, defined in terms of skin colour or facial features . . . .

    Race was never defined this way.

  114. @Cagey Beast

    Saying that different races exist, and that they’re different between the ears, disturbs the peace. In fact, it’s an idea that could turn many societies upside down.

    Cagey–they’ve infected your brain. You seem to have the “natural” and “artificial” (“ancestral and “derived”) states backwards.

    People have *always* understood that there are genetic differences between the races.

    People see those differences in families in their community/tribe. (Those Jones are more smart/dumb, energetic/lazy, prudent/foolish, peaceful/violent.) Later in their livestock–where they breed for them. And people bred for them in people too–choosing good matches from good families.

    When people encounter other races and tribes, they easily preceived those differences, realized they were like super-families. (Those guys are like hyper-Joneses.)

    This has always been true. The ancient Egyptians recognized the blacks up river were different and had rules to keep them out. And is true now. Chinese know blacks aren’t Chinese in black face. Japanese know Westerners aren’t Japanese inside. Indians know the people in the other castes aren’t the same as them. Everyone from elsewhere knows the Australians Aboriginals are different from them. Jews know the Arabs–and for that matter white gentiles “goyishe kopf”–aren’t as smart. The Arabs know the blacks are different. Heck, you can bet the Igbo know the folks up north–Hausa and such–are stupid. German, French, Italians know they aren’t the same.
    Latin Americans know there are innate differences between whites, indios and negros and the mixes of same. Before the revolution whites and blacks in the US–those that had any contact–knew they weren’t the same.

    This “everyones the same” ideology that you are taking as a default in fact, is only believed by a very thin sliver of propagandized good thinkers in the West. (Or stupid young people outside the West propagandized by academics or pop-stars.) Most people in the world fully understand that the world over are innately not the same as them.

    Yes, these differences did/do generate problems. But after the War–having seen off German and Japanese imperialism–there was a clear consensus that the solution was nationalism: Separate people’s–as much as possible–in their separate nations, with recognized borders. And that was the trend. Ending the empires with foreigners ruling someone else’s territory.

    At root the whole “everyone’s the same” nonsense that is destroying the West–and spasming wildly in the US the last few years–is a recent counter-intutitive propaganda counter attack. Launched by Jewish minoritarians hostile to white gentile nations, but useful for all middle man minorities and deeply comforting to non-whites toiling in a white created intellectual universe and especially immigrants whose very behavior is an admission that they’d rather live in white built nations then amongst their own people. This “equality” ideology was latched onto by elites, first for Cold War politics, but most strongly by the super-state and globlo business+finance as a cudgle to use against the people, republicanism, nationalism–and peoples’ particular culture, norms, behavior and desires.

    But again, my main point here is that “everyone’s the same” is not the “normal” observation of people. It’s a brain infection.

    Removing it is not destabilizing, but actually stabilizing. Returning us to the normal notions most people across time and space have understood. Returning us to sanity.

  115. Seriously, when people say Race Does Not Exist Scientifically, I think they tend to mean Race Does Not Exist Mathematically.

    They mean the same thing parrots mean when they utter human words: nothing.

  116. @Anonymous

    So when people say race does not exist, they’re not saying it does not exist mathematically. It’s a philosophical or metaphysical debate that is supposed to supersede science or math.

    It’s true that that the “race is not a meaningful category” claim is really just a philosophical/semantic debate over the meaning of “meaning.”

    But the proponents don’t admit this. Instead they treat it as some sort of empirical question that has been objectively “debunked” by “studies.”

    I’d like to ask one of these people what evidence they would need to see before they would agree that “race” is a valid biological concept.

  117. @Achmed E. Newman

    In making his dumb point that running ability is not caused by black skin he passed up a much more valid argument for his case.

    He could have said: “East Africans are good at long distance, West Africans are good at sprinting, so it just shows how being African, by itself, doesn’t genetically determine what you are good at.”

    But I guess his ideology won’t allow him to attribute anything to genetics.

  118. @AnotherDad

    Basically “our great grandparents were right“.

  119. Spangel says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Sadly, I basically agree with you. What is the world going to do about blacks?

    The other ethnic groups that are ill adapted for modern civilization are small in number and localized. But Blacks are populous, live in diaspora around the world and reproduce the most. In Darwinian terms, the future is destined to be theirs.

    But that is truly unfortunate for civilizational terms. As blacks migrate en masses to Europe, the European genome will become gradually Africanized. And we see what happened with the Middle East when it became gradually Africanized through the Islamic slave trade. Gone is the once great potential of many middle eastern populations.

    It’s just blacks. Everyone else who exists in large numbers doesn’t have an inherent problem with adapting and net contributing to modern civiliation at some level. I’m not saying let them all in, but I am saying they can do alright somewhere. Even mestizos, who aren’t bright, aren’t nearly as destructive as blacks. Their crime rates are far lower and whatever their official marriage stats, the concept of paternal investment and nuclear family aren’t alien impositions on them. Their instinct is not to collect children by different m fathers and to share parenting among female relatives. No, meztisos are basically content to work hard at their economic niches- lower skill stuff, but they do honest work.

    The issue with blacks goes far beyond iq. Adjusted for iq, blacks still have far higher crime rates than whites and far higher illegitimacy rates. Their time preference isn’t the same and in aggregate, they can’t build any industrial level civilization or even sustain one others build for them.

    But in the evolutionary terms, that Bantu lack of impulse control is winning over everyone else’s preference for long term planning of some sort.

  120. @Reg Cæsar

    Race officials most likely. But it is amusing that the only white men in this footrace are riding bikes.

  121. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @adreadline

    In mathematics, we know for certain whether a number is, say, odd or even, prime or nonprime.

    We don’t “know” it so much as we define it to be true.

  122. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @bomag

    Everyone knows the basic truths of race and inheritance;

    What makes you think that? It definitely isn’t consensus or conventional wisdom.

    it plays out in the expected ways all around us.

    Such as what?

  123. Alden says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    According to my old anatomy text book, blacks have higher density thus heavier bones and muscles than Whites and Asians.

  124. @WowJustWow

    … or it’s impossible in many cases to say decisively whether an elevation of land is really a “hill” or a “mountain”

  125. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Of course we know that race is real as a construct developed by humans to describe their surroundings.

    What do you mean that it is “real”?

    We also know that environment plays an integral role as well. Kenya has won an astonishing 63 medals at the Olympic Games in races of 800m and above (21 gold!), since 1968. It turns out it is not Kenya as a whole that usually emerged victorious, but individuals from a region in the Rift Valley called Nandi.

    This just bolsters the case that race rather than environment is integral. Here, the important thing is to be from the Nandi race.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  126. Hail says: • Website
    @guest

    I sense the start of a new trend for the 2020s:

    Precede anything you want to belittle with the word “casual” or “casually.”

    Examples:

    A casual belief by Trump’s bigoted fans is that illegal immigration costs enormous sums of tax money. In fact, illegals pay taxes, too.

    While it is true that African-Americans commit many casual crimes, the most serious crimes are committed by Whites, according to a new joint study by the non-partisan, independent SPLC and ADL.

  127. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Psychometrics has played a central role in debunking personality as a psychological entity by showing that there are no clear cut psychological subgroups that map on to our conventional notions of personality.

    Do you have a citation?

  128. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    They are not the only people unable to cope. Nor can Australian Aborigines, Eskimos, most North American Indians (as peoples), Maoris, Amazonian Indians, Papuans, … Just:

    Are Europeans able to cope? They are the ones going extinct and are unable to enforce their territorial and genetic boundaries.

  129. Hail says: • Website
    @Dan Smith

    Jimmy “The Greek” Snyder

    Apparently he really was of Greek origin,
    – Birth surname: Synodinos
    – (presumably of then-recent, Ellis Island-era, Greek immigrant stock.)
    – b. 1918, Steubenville, Ohio
    – married a Joan Marie Specht (1929-2011)
    – d. 1996; buried in Union [Protestant] cemetery in Steubenville, Ohio, under name James George Snyder, Sr.

    But on the topic of genetics, this is interesting/sad:

    Snyder and his wife Joan lost three of their five children to cystic fibrosis

    (Cystic fibrosis (CF) is a genetic disorder)

  130. Purple proves that red and blue do not exist. Where’s my check Guardian?!?

  131. @AnotherDad

    Probably one of your better comments.. I agree.

  132. @Hail

    Steubenville, Ohio

    Dean Martin was born there like a year before. Interesting. Thought I recognized that place.

    • Replies: @Hail
  133. i think it’s really about them being super small, weak, thin bones, even more so than extreme type I muscle selection. i’ve read that it takes less energy for them to lift their foot and take a step, over miles of running, they use slightly less energy to move forward. that adds up over time.

    this means they are terrible at sports, but awesome at running in a straight line for a long time.

    in relative terms there’s not much difference between european runners under 2:10 and east africans runners under 2:10, but in competition, where all that matters is 1 minute faster and you win big, there’s a huge difference between the east africans and everybody else.

    kipchoge 2:01 is really something.

  134. @adreadline

    2 to any power, no matter how large, is nonprime because it is a multiple of 2. The only numbers not either prime or nonprime are numbers that are not integers. In number theory you learn ways to decide whether very large numbers (e.g. 11^3942 – 1) are prime, and how to prove that there are infinitely many primes.

  135. @bomag

    I just figure they are evil.

    There can be no doubt that they are evil. Their ‘progressive’ platform is nothing but selling envy, covetousness, and jealousy to a clueless mob of ‘intellectuals’ and ‘woke’ halfwits.

    Everyone knows the basic truths of race and inheritance; it plays out in the expected ways all around us. That some deny it just feeds their pet narrative.

    But the difficulty is things like descendants of Africa from the Caribbean doing much better than native African-Americans. Why do slave descendants differ in outcome?

    Nature and HBD cannot be dismissed. Neither can subgroups that ought to be similarly situated, but are not.

    Nonetheless, we can sort this out after implementing an immigration moratorium. Which we need now.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    , @bomag
  136. @eddy wobegon

    Not only is diversity a scam, but what empirical evidence exists indicates that it is a detriment.

  137. notanon says:
    @Anonymous

    something like

    “intelligence is hereditary so have babies with a man who is either a) smarter than you or b) smarter than half the men you know”

  138. guest says:
    @eddy wobegon

    It’s a scam either way.

  139. mikemikev says:
    @obwandiyag

    Why are you idiots so concerned with trivial boring irrelevant crap like this? Is it possibly because you are part of the PTB project to eternally prevent people from asking where the money went by keeping them blabbering about inconsequential nonsense?

    You may be onto something for once.

  140. @AnotherDad

    Cagey–they’ve infected your brain. You seem to have the “natural” and “artificial” (“ancestral and “derived”) states backwards.

    No, on the contrary, it’s you who has things backwards. I’m saying things are now at Point A and it would take a dramatic shift in a lot of people’s thinking to get to Point B. I’m saying those of us who want to get to Point B have to think about all the obstacles and sticking points along the way.

    It turns out the first sticking point is to get the race realists to realise it will take more than yelling “you’re all evil fools who deny the truth because Jewish worms have eaten your brains!”.

    Removing it is not destabilizing, but actually stabilizing. Returning us to the normal notions most people across time and space have understood. Returning us to sanity.

    Removing the existing order is not destabilising it? I’m starting to think you hold a senior State Department position. Were you in any way involved in planning the transformations of post-Soviet Russia or Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya or Syria?

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @bomag
  141. @HammerJack

    Goes well with a ”Period.” at the end. (Or ”Full stop.” if one’s so inclined)

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  142. @Spangel

    But in the evolutionary terms, that Bantu lack of impulse control is winning over everyone else’s preference for long term planning of some sort.

    Is this really true, or has this situation only arisen by the overly generous welfare systems available throughout the Western world with benefits that are all too readily available to those incapable of planning.

    • Replies: @Spangel
    , @Anonymous
  143. @gabriel alberton

    Oh don’t tell these people about saying “full stop” instead of “period”. They were already ripping their tire swings off the chain and biting their little sisters at the use of “in the Autumn”.

  144. @Anonymous

    Your have been reading Darwin not closely enough; also, serious Darwinians are very cautious when they speak/write.

  145. Spangel says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    The situation isn’t really a problem in the western world with its modern welfare state. Black tfr is at parity in the us. That makes it slightly higher than white American tfr, but it’s the kind of disparity that is manageable.

    The massive burst in black population growth is in Africa. Aid to Africa doesn’t seem to be exacerbating the issue, but the existence of modern medicine does. Vaccines, antibiotics and other basic medical care exists and is available to Africans. In addition, even very rudimentary western technologies make them effective enough at agriculture to sustain a high population growth. This is what the the West has done to enable their population growth. It wasn’t a great effort to provide welfare on our part. It’s that we provided the bare minimum to enable massive population growth without providing the considerable resources it would need to transition African blacks into some semblance of middle class lifestyle.

  146. @Spangel

    Nobody knows what will be. Except 2 very sci-fi “solutions” (WW 3 & genetic engineering on such a mass scale & depth black (and many other) phenotype & much of genotype will voluntarily be erased), there remain two -three more realist (which does not mean certain) scenarios: blacks & similar type of people overrun rich West which then becomes dystopian nightmare, while the globe is basically ruled by China, Russia & Japan which ditch UN humanitarian principles & the core West sinks, along with its newly acquired inhabitants, due to mass starvation, chaos & infighting etc.; core West becomes mega-Israel, where “natives” mercilessly control “new inhabitants”, yet reducing their numbers both home & in their breeding ground (which, again, necessitates revocation of UN chief documents & in practice benign patronizing rule over those who cannot rule themselves); new Fascism of high IQ, phenotypically not too different “cousins” who use their knowledge & technology to limit & control “teeming masses”.

    There are numerous other variations, but I’m pretty sure one shall not happen: help from “the above” (gods, alien civilizations,..); if previously affluent West succumbs to extreme deranged suicidal “humanism” & lets Africans & Muslims, in even greater numbers, world order will have collapsed & China plus, perhaps Russia, will adopt the policy of “I’m minding just my own life &, if necessary, let the human parasitic surplus vanish for good”.

    • Replies: @Spangel
  147. @The Alarmist

    our greatest whitebread President, James Earl Carter.

    Jimma Cartah, victim of the swamp rabbit attack

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter_rabbit_incident

    The mighty Jimma condemned the Secret Service for abandoning him to the vicious, nasty teeth of that wicked rabbit.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  148. what these people don’t get is that no one gives a shit about superficial characteristics. That’s why indian-americans pretty much integrate into white society and chinese-americans while still somewhat different are pretty much fine.

    It wasn’t the fact that blacks have dark skin that caused them to fail to invent writing or to turn gary indiana into a wasteland.

  149. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    But the difficulty is things like descendants of Africa from the Caribbean doing much better than native African-Americans. Why do slave descendants differ in outcome?

    Cultural differences, and differences in the educational systems.

    I have known a number of nurses who started life in the Caribbean and then moved to the UK with their husbands and young children, then moved on to Canada, and finally migrated to Florida for the preretirement years and to be closer to the Caribbean.

    In each case the older children of the family have thrived and become professionals in the UK or Canada, but the youngest children have come to the US, dropped out of school, got into delinquency,a and so on.

    One kid who had been born in England, got into legal trouble in the Fort Lauderdale area when it his late teens, and his family had to spend a fortune on lawyers to prevent him being deported back to England, a country he had no memory of and no connections to.

    Despite the notion that anyone can come and be a criminal in the US, the US has, over the years, consistently deported large numbers of kids over the age of 18 to places like Jamaica and the Dominican Republic, even though their parents are permanent residents or citizens of the US.

  150. @Corvinus

    When it comes to the sprints, why has Africa not dominated?

    Sprinting is high tech. Specifically pharmaceutical technology. I can’t recall hearing a marathoner busted for performance enhancing drugs.

  151. Spangel says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    While it would be a tragedy if western civilization were to collapse due to decades of increased African migration, your scenarios are all better than the worst outcome which is that not even eastern and Russian societies resist Africanization. If the West were to fall, it would be better if at least someone could maintain an advanced civilization.

    Given the rate of African population growth and everyone else’s population stagnation and soon to be decline, there is the possibility that they will, over several centuries or millennia become the predominant source of ancestry everywhere.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  152. Mr. Anon says:
    @Cagey Beast

    You may not be interested in genetics, but genetics is interested in you.

  153. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smithsonian

    If such a question is asked today it would be as a test to catch badthinkers. The approved politically correct response to such a question would be

    (a) to deny that all Masai are taller than all Eskimos

    (b) to point out that there is a greater height difference between the tallest Masai and shortest Masai than between Masai and Eskimos in general, and

    (c) that height in adulthood is determined by childhood diet and environment, i.e. wealth and class

  154. @Desiderius

    You are confusing Snyder with Al Campanis on the lacking necessities opinion. Snyder focused on the forced breeding.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  155. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hail

    I knew a couple who after their first kid died at 18 month of some exceedingly rare genetic disease had two more kids, but they used a pinch hitter on the grounds it was the pairing that was jinxed. They are a fine family with no drama now.

    One unusual thing is they never told the other kids about the first one or the AI either.

    • Replies: @Hail
  156. Anon[265] • Disclaimer says:
    @Aft

    I did look at lifetime fertility curves. It struck me that there are several versions that differ quite a bit. I imagine that this is a difficult area to research because it’s so personal, and fertility clinics are small and independent. Important input data like how many times you have sex are likely to be self reported and inaccurate.

    Also: these charts never go below age 20. It’s probably disturbing to feminists, and people in general, that peak fertility may fall in one’s early or mid teens. What is nature trying to tell us?! Yikes!

  157. Anonymous[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    this situation [Africans flooding into the First World] has only arisen by the overly generous welfare systems available throughout the Western world

    Social/welfare payments until the 1980s were subject to:

    – Eligibility requirements – citizenship, residence in location, prior payments into system, etc.
    – Strict ID checks by reference to government ID *ONLY.
    – Needs testing – not just a few convenient stories rehearsed with the help of shadowy “advocates.”
    – Maximum amounts – unemployment and social benefits were strictly limited in duration.
    – MALE ADMINISTRATORS. Most senior administrators and policy makers with high-level control of welfare systems were still males committed to keeping the systems operational, sane and solvent.

    Since then, the floodgates were INTENTIONALLY opened by successively disabling all checks and balances in the interest of the great population dilution project planned by a small clique of billionaires and their relentlessly beavering claws and fangs.

  158. George says:

    “The Fact That Narrow-Hipped, Narrow-Skulled Kenyans Keep Winning Distance Running Races Has NOTHING to Do with Race”

    I don’t get the argument.

    Kenyan is usually not considered a race.

    The tiny subgroup of Africans is just an example of there being more variation within the African race than between races.

  159. anon19 says:

    Hard to believe the British once ruled much of Africa. Now they are sheep. What happened?

  160. @Cagey Beast

    I’m Carl “The Truth” Williams.

  161. @Ron Mexico

    They’re all Greek to me.

    … losing my goddamned mind…

    • LOL: Ron Mexico
  162. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    This has always been true. The ancient Egyptians recognized the blacks up river were different and had rules to keep them out. And is true now. Chinese know blacks aren’t Chinese in black face. Japanese know Westerners aren’t Japanese inside. Indians know the people in the other castes aren’t the same as them. Everyone from elsewhere knows the Australians Aboriginals are different from them. Jews know the Arabs–and for that matter white gentiles “goyishe kopf”–aren’t as smart. The Arabs know the blacks are different. Heck, you can bet the Igbo know the folks up north–Hausa and such–are stupid. German, French, Italians know they aren’t the same.
    Latin Americans know there are innate differences between whites, indios and negros and the mixes of same. Before the revolution whites and blacks in the US–those that had any contact–knew they weren’t the same.

    This “everyones the same” ideology that you are taking as a default in fact, is only believed by a very thin sliver of propagandized good thinkers in the West. (Or stupid young people outside the West propagandized by academics or pop-stars.) Most people in the world fully understand that the world over are innately not the same as them.

    Yes, it was a general detestation of my dad’s behavior and an infatuation withn a certain pop star, which led to an interest in rock music generally, that caused me to believe in equlitarianism until at about 40 I could no longer keep up the pretense.

    My dad was a jerk, but he was right that in general blacks were on average dumb and troublesome and should generally be politely avoided. He was right that fooling with nonwhite women of any stripe was a bad idea.

  163. @Spangel

    I don’t believe in total Africanization, so to speak. My guess is more ruthless mega-Israel, Israelis being Western & other affluent Western peoples who will have passed through the phase of ethnic-racial-cultural awakening & dumped many liberal democratic suicidal lunacies, without going into extremist racialist Nazism/Fascism: basically, we are the people & you better shut up or we’ll boot you (or worse).

    On global level, Africans would, without Western help, have vanished because they cannot even feed themselves. They could, when they were a tiny fraction & had lived as hunters-gatherers with farming in some pockets. But now- no, that race, if forced to take care of themselves, would have died out.

  164. Anonymous[243] • Disclaimer says:

    On the point about sub Saharan African running ability.

    I remember reading in a Victorian era book the observation that ‘flat feet’ (that is feet with no or poorly developed arches), are the norm amongst black Africans. Personal observation seems to confirm this.
    The book continued in saying that flat feet were typically a disqualifaction for army service – apparently, it still is – due to the difficulties the flat-footed contend with on long route marches.

    Seems to fly in the face of African success in distance running.

  165. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    Life imitates art.

    “That’s the most foul, cruel, bad-tempered rodent you’ve ever set eyes on!”

  166. Hail says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Glad you specified what exactly you meant by “pinch hitter” (artificial insemination) lest confusion arise from the imagery of that metaphor.

  167. Hail says: • Website
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    Steubenville, Ohio

    A city whose population peaked in the 1940s, and has lost population in every census from 1950 to 2020 (expected, on 2010s-era census estimates).

    – Peak population: 38,000 in the 1940s
    – 2020 population: 17,500, equal to its ca. 1905 population.

    Steubenville city population in 1940: 100
    Steubenville city population in 2020: 46

    Not just a case of a one-city decline in an otherwise-doing-fine metropolitan area:

    Weirton–Steubenville, WV-OH Metropolitan Statistical Area, also known as the Upper Ohio Valley

    As of the 2010 census, the MSA had a population of 124,454. In 2017, the population was estimated to have gone down to 118,250

    As of 2000, there were 132,008 people […] The racial makeup of the MSA was 94.50% White, 3.91% African American […]

    1990 census: 142,523

    Steubenville metro population in 1990: 100
    Steubenville metro population in 2020: 81 or 82

    Number of Whites in Steubenville metropolitan area: over 135,000 in 1990 to <109,000 in 2020 (expected, from estimates), with avg. age sure to have gone up by a good margin.

    Steubenville is in Jefferson Co., Ohio, which flipped strongly for Trump in 2016, 65-30, after voting D in all elections except three (Eisenhower ’56, Nixon ’72, Romney ’12) since 1932. Bob Dole (R) was walloped in this county 29-56 by Clinton in ’96.

  168. @Cagey Beast

    )))Carlos Slim(((, )))El Jeffe Bezos(((, }}}Pinch{{{

    • Replies: @Hail
  169. Hail says: • Website
    @Desiderius

    Doesn’t inverted parenthesis refer to “counter-Semites”? Carlos Slim and Jeff Bozos are simply non-Jews.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  170. bomag says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    But the difficulty is things like descendants of Africa from the Caribbean doing much better than native African-Americans.

    JM had a good reply.

    Be careful about falling into the either/or trap. Inheritance explains a lot, but it doesn’t explain everything. That doesn’t mean we should reject it completely and wander around aimlessly while our political leadership tries to come up with another explanation.

  171. bomag says:
    @Cagey Beast

    I’m saying things are now at Point A and it would take a dramatic shift in a lot of people’s thinking to get to Point B.

    But we are at point B. Racial sensitivity is cranked up to eleven. The US gov’t happily keeps track of blood quantum levels for Tribal membership in the 500 plus recognized Indian tribes. Our AA infrastructure is a racial counting protocol. The SPLC used to keep a chart on their wall of the declining White percentage of the US population; and all the other usual outlets breathlessly reporting on the majority/minority ratio. Etc, etc.

    Nobody believes in racial non-existence. Why even have the pretense that it doesn’t matter?

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  172. @George

    Kenyan is usually not considered a race.

    The tiny subgroup of Africans is just an example of there being more variation within the African race than between races.

    That is not what the discussion is about.

    Your are just trying to make a fine distinction about the precise meaning of ‘race’. Because races blur at the edges there is no more such a thing as an African race any more than there is a Kenyan race, but within Africa historically there have been many different tribes that have shared genetic characteristics. So there are tribes that excel in sprinting from West Africa and tribes that excel in long distance running from East Africa.

    Why is a greyhound always a favorite to beat a chihuaha in a one-lap race round a track? Why will a labrador retriever always beat a Yorkshire terrier at fetch, or in a swimming or hole-digging contest?

    It is all in the DNA and in the genes.

    Similarly the argument is that different breeds (tribes) of humans also have different characteristics and natural talents or lack of talent in various fields according to their group genetic makeup, or in some cases combinations of groups.

    Dark skin color is a genetic marker that is easily seen by other people, but it is not really an indicator of race per se. Africans, South Asians, Andaman Islanders, Maoris and Australian aboriginals all have dark skin, but are not all closely related genetically to each other.

    Having said that, acknowledgement of racial or group genetic differences in not all that useful for formulation of public policy and services in multiracial democracies.

    While you can confidently select certain breeds of dog for certain tasks like bomb sniffer, blind dog, or sheep herder, it is much harder to work this way with humans and it is probably best to act like everybody is the same until proven otherwise, because there are always exceptions.

    My own black labrador retriever was specially bred at a university superdog program, and was admitted to an elite service-dog college based on her background and family connections, but due to lack of aptitude she dropped out without graduating, and went into a new career as in early childhood companionship, and has been very successful, while still maintaining a capacity to play fetch, swim, and dig holes in her spare time. So breeding is not everything.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  173. Anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones

    That article is here:

    UK universities condemned for failure to tackle racism

    Heidi Mirza, visiting professor of race, faith and culture at Goldsmiths, University of London, said universities’ poor handling of complaints was driving BME staff and students to quit. She said: “This week I have written three references for senior black female staff who want to leave and go to America or anywhere else but England. The attrition rate is symptomatic of the fact that the complaints system doesn’t work.”

    “People come and tell me of something horrendous that has happened to them and they just want to leave. They will not go to the university with it. They know the university will crush them.”

    Goldsmiths anti-racism protest marks 100th day with rally

    Students staging an occupation at Goldsmiths, University of London, in protest against what they describe as “institutional racism in academia”, have marked their 100th day of action with a rally and a pledge to carry on indefinitely until their demands are met.

    Goldsmiths Anti-Racist Action protesters have occupied Deptford town hall on the south London campus since March, demanding a series of measures to tackle racism at the university, including mandatory anti-racism training for all staff.

    Sadly the articles never fess up about what really goes on. Could be that universities are literally concentration camps, with capos walking the halls, dogwhistling. Could be other things. I only see photos of scowling female diversity profs and bullhorned diversity students.

    They said white university staff were often reluctant to address racism, with racial slurs treated as banter or an inevitable byproduct of freedom of speech, and institutional racism poorly recognised.

    This is the Guardian…

    New sexual harassment claims at Goldsmiths spark calls for inquiry

    Paragraph #2

    The new complaints have come to light as a result of Guardian investigations, which have also revealed that Goldsmiths paid £192,146 in compensation to students who have brought complaints of sexual harassment, assault or rape against members of staff in the last six years.

    Paragraph #5

    The new allegations date back to the late 1980s and early 1990s and focus on staff in one department. One woman, who was in a vulnerable state following a family tragedy, described how as an undergraduate she was “groomed” by a member of staff with whom she subsequently had a brief relationship.

    So, that was before Desert Storm. But now Guardian research reveals!

  174. El Dato says:
    @Cagey Beast

    Remember that Mike Tyson is suffering for your white sins!

    ‘Polish guys didn’t have sh*t happen to them compared to black people’ – Mike Tyson

    “Your Polish guys didn’t have sh*t happen to you compared to what happened to black people in America,” Tyson, 52, said in part of an interview published by TVP.

    “No one imprisoned you for 250 f*cking years. And raped your mother, and your sister, and your brother in front of your eyes before they killed them… What happened to y’all was really bad… but nobody in the world’s been persecuted more than black people.”

    There is a Spielberg movie in that brother-raping race-animosity bullshit going back to the Superior Black Animal Kangz of Egypt.

    OTOH, Europe has always been a pretty pleasant place.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    , @Logan
  175. Flip says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Sort of, but subspecies in animals are usually a term applied for the sake of convenience to identify populations of the same animal that are unlikely to interbreed, for example Indian and African elephants.

    African and Asian elephants are not even in the same genus, much less the same species.

    Elephant
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Elephants are large mammals of the family Elephantidae in the order Proboscidea. Three species are currently recognised: the African bush elephant (Loxodonta africana), the African forest elephant (L. cyclotis), and the Asian elephant (Elephas maximus).

  176. El Dato says:

    OT: The Guardian is a rag to control the lefty masses and a special interest propaganda outlet, but can you transport gefilte fisch in it? Or jerk off into it like a protagonist from “Portnoy’s Complaints”?

    Guardian accused of ‘vendetta’ for ignoring Chomsky’s Labour anti-Semitism comments

    https://twitter.com/DCKennard/status/1147564804997074944/

  177. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    While you can confidently select certain breeds of dog for certain tasks like bomb sniffer, blind dog, or sheep herder, it is much harder to work this way with humans and it is probably best to act like everybody is the same until proven otherwise, because there are always exception.

    So because categories and generalizations have exceptions, they aren’t useful? Got it.

    Let’s stop selecting dogs on the basis of breeds. There are exceptions there, too.

  178. bomag says:
    @George

    The tiny subgroup of Africans is just an example of there being more variation within the African race than between races.

    That little gem is repeated more than it should be.

    Let’s look at some extreme examples.

    If humans and lemurs have the same mean foot speed, but a wide variation within the species, that’s not particularly informative about their differences.

    When talking about traits such as athletic ability and intelligence, the determining individuals are largely the outliers. One group could well have a higher mean and lower variance; thus the outstanding individuals could be from the lower achieving group.

    Also, one group could have a wider variance, but the other group could cluster tighter at the high end, and thus have the outstanding individuals in that trait.

  179. Logan says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    For example Dred Scott had no standing before the Supreme Court, because he was not regarded as a qualified human.

    This is quite inaccurate. The Constitution itself refers, in a euphemism, to slaves as “persons.” The Dred Scott decision refers to Africans as “persons” dozens of times.

    The humanity of the race was not questioned. What the decision said was that they were not, never had been and never could be , short of an amendment, citizens of the United States. (The amendment was therefore duly passed.)

    The DS decision was wrong, BTW, factually and legally, as was duly noted in the dissents. The first and so far most disastrous, but by no means the last, attempt by the Supremes to “settle” a contentious issue by “reinterpreting” the Constitution.

  180. @George

    “The Fact That Narrow-Hipped, Narrow-Skulled Kenyans Keep Winning Distance Running Races Has NOTHING to Do with Race”

    I don’t get the argument.

    Kenyan is usually not considered a race.

    But in this case, we have to think of it that way.

  181. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “What do you mean that it is “real”?”

    I said race is real as a construct. Human beings, in order to make sense of the world around them, designated a term for things they saw.

    “This just bolsters the case that race rather than environment is integral.”

    No, it actually demonstrates that a particular area, i.e. an environment, is well-known for a proclivity.

    “Here, the important thing is to be from the Nandi race.”

    Except there is no such thing as a “Nandi race”.

  182. MEH 0910 says:

    “especially physics”

  183. MEH 0910 says:

    Unfortunately, Dr. Ball might consider you analogous to the cranks who plague physicists with their crackpot theories:

  184. @bomag

    But we are at point B.

    One’s current position is commonly labelled “Point A” and a second position is commonly labelled “Point B”. You described where we are now. That’s why the label, “Point A” fits. I really can’t make this any simpler.

    Nobody believes in racial non-existence. Why even have the pretence that it doesn’t matter?

    Don’t ask me, ask the people parroting the ruling credo. It clearly alternates between saying race does not exist and saying it does. Ask them why and how they do it, not me.

  185. @El Dato

    OTOH, Europe has always been a pretty pleasant place.

    Yeah. Ask Mike Tyson about serfs and he’ll think you mean those White boys who stole surfing from the Hawaiians.

  186. @Aft

    Aft, in “The Clock was Ticking…”, Peak Stupidity discusses a UK Daily Mail article on just this very subject. The good-intentioned but unwise woman profiled insists that her childlessness is “not by choice”. I don’t at all refer to the few that are unfortunately non-fertile due to health reasons. These women think that they didn’t have a choice during their 20-year fertile period, because they didn’t meet the right man.

    From puberty through 25, I think conceiving, carrying to term, and delivery are very easy. From 26 through 32, for most, it’s just some more trouble. After that, it becomes not that much of a sure thing. I agree on your last paragraph especially. I am no doctor, so I don’t know much about men’s fertility, but why did it become an “issue” only during these feminist times? Is it just that “it’s only fair!”?

  187. MEH 0910 says:

    Philip Ball Retweeted :

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  188. MEH 0910 says:
    @MEH 0910

  189. Logan says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    I don’t think you’ve got the definition of sub-species right. “A taxonomic category that ranks below species, usually a fairly permanent geographically isolated race. Subspecies are designated by a Latin trinomial, e.g., (in zoology) Ursus arctos horribilis or (in botany) Beta vulgaris subsp. crassa.”

    Here’s a listing of 38 sub-species of wolf, found throughout most of the northern hemisphere. Note that these are all members of the same species, and that where sub-species meet, they tend to merge. Also, since the divisions are not always obvious, experts differ about where to draw the lines, or even whether some of the sub-species exist

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies_of_Canis_lupus One of these being the domestic dog.

    This all sounds remarkably similar to human “races” to me. “Fairly permanent geographically isolated races.”

  190. Logan says:
    @El Dato

    Clearly, Mike doesn’t know much of anything about the history of Poland.

  191. MEH 0910 says:

    Philip Ball’s Prospect Magazine review of Robert Plomin’s book Blueprint:

    Does DNA really define destiny?
    by Philip Ball / October 15, 2018

    Godwin’s law dictates that all online arguments, if they run for long enough, will end up comparing someone to Hitler. But the Nazis are apt to turn up sooner rather than later in arguments about genetics and human behaviour. If the left too often flinches at what the science says, invoking the spectre of eugenics, the hard-right latches on eagerly hoping to confirm its prejudices about race and inequality. Robert Plomin transcends this divide.

    While he insists that pretty much all of our behaviours are governed to some degree by genetics, his politics are on the liberal left. He wants research to inform progress towards a fairer society. Our prospects for health, wealth and happiness, he argues, are substantially influenced by the shake of the dice when sperm meets egg. But, he adds, “genetic wealth is its own reward.” We should, says Plomin, challenge a value system that confers extra rewards on those who got lucky in the genetic lottery.

    What exactly do genes imply about our behaviour and abilities? Plomin shows persuasively that the genes we inherit affect, sometimes profoundly, our personality, temperament, physical and mental health and, thereby, our life outcomes.

    ******
    “I have been waiting 30 years to write Blueprint,” Plomin says. “My goal is to tell the truth as I see it, without pulling punches for the sake of perceived political correctness.” Plomin believes that naysayers should now accept that genes influence not only our health, height, appearance and hair colour but pretty much every behavioural trait we can measure.

    While some of the statistical tools and their interpretation remain under discussion, he is broadly right to say that behavioural genetics has established that link. To deny these facts leaves the door open to abuse by those with dangerous political agendas, as well as to overlook a biomedical resource of immense potential for health, social policy and our understanding of human nature.

    As far as political sensitivities go, modern behavioural genetics shows why “eugenic” solutions to intellectual disability or assertions of “innate” racial differences that justify hierarchies or stereotypes are flawed from a scientific point of view, as well as an ethical one. One of the key messages of Blueprint is that traits such as intelligence or mental health—vulnerability to schizophrenia or autism, say—are not determined by a few genes, but influenced by tens, hundreds or even thousands of them. In general, the relationships are neither linear nor confined to single traits; so neat divisions between populations seem implausible, and any simple winnowing of “bad” mutations impossible.

    Thus the popular notion that there are “genes for” some complex trait such as height or sexual orientation is plain wrong. Some researchers are now even talking about “omnigenetic” traits (including height), affected by more or less the whole genome made up of some 23,000 genes.

    Soooooo…. is Philip Ball saying that Pygmies can’t be shorter on average because of polygenics? What does that say to the idea that populations can’t differ on average in behavioral traits or intelligence because of polygenics?

  192. O Philip Ball, editor of Nature, former physicist, how low have you sunk.

    You might imagine that a book reviewer might look up some background material; and when checking on Richard Lewontin, would discover that nowadays he is known among geneticists for his eponymous fallacy. You don’t need to look very far: the second hit on Google, or Lewontin’s Wikipedia page, would suffice.

    I don’t understand how an enormously bright, well-read, and polymathic individual like Ball can fail so badly. Has he lost his curiosity, or is he such a political conformist that he no longer dares to challenge the orthodoxies of British pseudo-intellectuals?

    We are doomed.

  193. @Desiderius

    I’ve answered this post of yours in today’s Saini post of Steve Sailer concerning Saini’s ideas about India.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?