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GSS: All Groups Except Asians and Foreign-Born Want Fewer Immigrants
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Audacious Epigone points to the always-ongoing General Social Survey asking a sample size of 1,100 in 2014:

“Do you think the number of immigrants to America nowadays should be: 1) Increased a lot, 2) Increased a little, 3) Remain the same as it is, 4) Reduced a little, or 5) Reduced a lot.” …

The quotient is derived by subtracting the percentages who would like to see the number of immigrants in the US reduced from the percentages who would like to see it increased, with those wanting it to remain unchanged discounted.

So negative numbers mean the following groups want fewer immigrants to America, positive numbers mean more:

Partisan affiliation IEQ
Democratic (17.3)
Independent (22.7)
Republican (42.9)
Race
Asian +25.6
Hispanic (14.6)
Black (29.0)
White (32.8)
Social class
Upper class (17.3)
Middle class (23.9)
Underclass (32.1)
Working class (34.5)
Educational attainment
Bachelor’s degree (16.5)
Master’s degree (16.8)
Did not complete high school (30.3)
High school graduate (35.1)
Some college (36.0)
Birthplace
Foreign-born +7.0
Born in the US (35.5)
Sex
Male (23.4)
Female (33.7)
Age
18-29 (13.1)
30-44 (30.2)
65+ (32.1)
45-64 (33.9)

So everybody except Asians and the foreign-born favors reducing the numbers of immigrants to America. Hispanics are solidly so, although not as much as blacks and whites. Women are particularly anti-immigration. Every age group wants the number of immigrants reduced, and every age group over 29 is similar, suggesting it’s not a generation thing, it’s a maturity thing.

 
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  1. Women are particularly anti-immigration

    Whiskey, explain that. You always say women want more sexy, sexy, sexy immigrants. What gives?

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Realizing Whiskey is hasbara explains a lot.
    , @Justin
    Whiskey is correct, all women secretly lust after the 5'5" squat brown Indios who make sub-minimum wage cutting their grass.
    , @5371
    That's easy. He will say they are lying. After all, he claims they are lying on all other surveys as well.
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    Maybe it's because women hate, hate, hate Asian beta males?
    , @Whiskey
    Not sexy immigrants. No one would say that immigrants from Michoacan are sexy. But among the class of White women I move in, Upper Middle class, yes I see a huge demand for immigrants. More and cheaper nannies, housekeepers, more people to mind/babysit in do-nothing social work, more people to manage in HR, etc.

    Keep in mind that I'm not dealing with women negatively affected by immigration: nurses, housewives, etc. [In California Filipino Nurses have effectively pushed out most White nurses outside of ER departments. In my many, many visits to local hospitals for very sick family members it is so rare as to be remarkable to see White nurses on the floors. I do see them in ERs.]

    I am surprised by the numbers. I certainly don't see it in my dealings with UMC White women. But maybe that's just my unique/biased view, not seeing enough working class lower Middle class White women.

    If you are a White nurse, yeah you are very vulnerable to being pushed out by immigrant labor just like a White male coder. A White HR person? So far not, same with a real estate babe, pharmacy rep (they want hot and cute young women, noticeably absent among immigrants who tend to large round balls).
  2. MC says:

    I can relate to the “maturity” part. I was rather fanatically pro-open borders until my mid-twenties. Then I saw during the 2006 debate how pro-immigration types at NRO had absolutely no adequate answer to Mark Krikorian and John Derbyshire, going instead to ad hominem as a first resort. That made me wonder what arguments there were on the immigration reduction side, and here I am.

  3. For once the MRAs/PUAs/red pill men need to stop blaming White women for everything.

  4. Is there a breakdown by, say, which countries we need more or less immigration from? Because I’m guessing even many of the Asians that want more immigration aren’t necessarily indifferent regarding the optimal geographical distribution of any added influx.

    • Replies: @inertial
    People, whether native or foreign-born, are generally for increased immigration of their own group and reduced immigration of other groups.
    , @Anonymous
    In the victimism sweepstakes, the old nation of origin restrictions are pretty much all Asians have going, so they tend to be emphasized in official Asian American political culture.
  5. it all comes down to a lack of democracy. Because of its size and diversity, america is not united. Not united means less able to control the politicians.

    Many american conservatives relish the thought of the western european “socialist” nations (so socialist that more citizens own their own homes than americans) falling prey to mass immigration.

    But we are in much worse shape here in america. We are not even close to being able to fight back against mass immigration as they are doing in western europe. They actually have large demonstrations in public against immigration.

  6. Even foreign born register positive by 7, which doesn’t seem that high. The really surprising number is the difference between men and women–I know it includes all races, etc.–there might be little difference between White women and men–but it surprises me that women are more negative about immigration than men. It goes against so much I’ve assumed, backed up by women having much more liberal voting patterns and policy positions compared to men. I wonder how intense women’s dislike of immigration is. Very interesting.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Perhaps immigrants are more likely to be male? In other words, a disproportionate number of the "foreign-born" respondents are male, and that results in the male/female disparity. Just a guess.
    , @Anonymous
    " ... but it surprises me that women are more negative about immigration than men. It goes against so much I’ve assumed, backed up by women having much more liberal voting patterns and policy positions compared to men. I wonder how intense women’s dislike of immigration is. Very interesting."

    Here are some thoughts:

    1.) Women don't like the implications of increased immigration for the children, in terms of the demographic make-up of the children's schools and how it affects their children's education, the demographic changes in their neighborhoods and how it affects their children's lives (friendships, safety, etc.), and the general outlook for their children's futures, economically and demographically

    2.) Women like places that are safe, and they may be coming to realize that many of the immigrants we're getting might pose some threat to the general safety level of our country.

    3.) Also, they may be realizing that many of the immigrants we're getting are not from countries where women's rights are highly regarded.

    , @SFG
    I always figured it was the crime thing.
  7. My main question is why are women particularly against immigration. They see immigrants as rivals in the job place? Lots of women work in retail, and I don’t see immigrants working there.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Maybe they are finally starting to wise up and realize that immigration is hurting their kids. I once remember being off work and channel surfing. I saw one of those idiot women's afternoon talk shows. They were starting to rant about white men. Finally, one women got up and said her two sons were white men. I kind of quieted the crowd down.
    , @Retired
    The immigrants are on average more violent, criminal and chauvinistic. That's why women don't want them. If we were letting polite Danes, it would be a different story.
    , @Casey
    Immigrant women have taken over industries like nurse's aide, home health aide, and childcare and have driven down wages and benefits in these areas quite dramatically in recent decades. Of course upper class women have benefited, but their numbers are much smaller. Families haven't benefited as far as the low level medical jobs (home health care and nurse's aides in hospitals and nursing homes) because they haven't seen any reduction and most people are not aware of how low paid these workers are. My first job was nurses aide and it paid double minimum wage and I was paid for months while being trained on the job (and for real, shadowing another worker most of the time so they were paying double). Now workers have to pay $1000.+ up front for training to get a CNA certificate and they are lucky to find a job at 9-11/hr etc - same deal as so many other industries. Immigrant men's wives will work as nannies and babysitters cheap - even doing both housework and childcare without complaint, so even if you are a professional and people are willing to value experience, it is hard to demand top dollar.
    , @Hare Krishna
    Immigrants don't go for radical feminism, that's why.
  8. @iSteveFan

    Women are particularly anti-immigration
     
    Whiskey, explain that. You always say women want more sexy, sexy, sexy immigrants. What gives?

    Realizing Whiskey is hasbara explains a lot.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    Have you read my website at all? Any of my posts on Ferguson and Rotherham? I'm likely even more against immigration than Steve, and like Steve I've seen a great place, Southern California ruined in my lifetime into nothing more than Baja Norte. With all that implies.

    But if poll after poll shows that immigration is unpopular, how come being against immigration is a sure-fire political loser? How come NO NADA NONE ZILCH politician has ridden anti-immigration sentiment into the White House? Why is Barack Obama the President and not Tom Tancredo? Or Jeff Sessions? Why is Dave Brat the only success story in primaries against Open Borders Republicans? If voters really don't like mass immigration.

    Yeah there is a lot of bad actors with lots of money: Adelson, Gates, Soros, Zuckerberg, etc. Money does not buy everything, otherwise Chicago would not be rapidly turning into Detroit, with NYC following into Baltimore territory. All that big money can't get Americans out of their cars or get guns banned. Why is it that big money can get gay marriage and tranny worship a fait accompli but can't get guns banned (and thank God at least for that)?

    My answer is not all-powerful secret comic book supervillains, but that most people just don't care enough about immigration. Sentiment is a mile wide and an inch deep. Unlike gun ownership (free men own weapons, slaves don't) voters don't punish people like Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John McCain. Had McCain endorsed gun bans for most of his career it would have been very short. Voters knew damn well he was open borders and that mattered less than gun ownership to them in Arizona, ground zero of demographic transformation.

    My cynical take: B-L-A-C-K-S explains a lot of this. Most White voters might give lip service to sacred Blackness and original White sin and Morgan Freeman Black racial redemption, but when it comes to living with Trayvon and Michael Brown they'd prefer to live in Michoacan than Detroit. For example Mexicans have displaced Blacks from most service jobs, which would have been startling to people in say, 1960 used to seeing Black cooks as an image of delicious food (echoes of which you see in Uncle Ben's rice and the Cream of Wheat dude). Add that working class White males lose the most, and Upper Class and non-service Middle Class White women lose the least, from immigration plus the appeal of White male bashing to White women increasingly removed and non-dependent on White men, and you get a fuller picture.

    TL:DR version: Revealed not stated preference shows that Whites value gun ownership more than preventing half of Mexico and considerable parts of China from moving here, on the theory that the immigrants are at least better than Trayvon. Plus nerdy White guys and blue collar workers get it and that's appealing to a non-trivial part of White women employed in HR and NGO-istan.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    That's always been my suspicion.
  9. On the surface, it looks like the less educated a person is, the more likely he is to be against more immigration. But looking closer, this is not exactly the story. Note the discrepancy between “Some college” and Bachelor’s degree. These two groups are not that far apart in respect to actual education. It’s not educated vs. uneducated, it’s credentialed vs. not.

    I wonder if the same dynamic is at work with other social issues.

    • Replies: @foxy
    people with low IQ are more likely to oppose immigration.
    , @leftist conservative

    On the surface, it looks like the less educated a person is, the more likely he is to be against more immigration. But looking closer, this is not exactly the story. Note the discrepancy between “Some college” and Bachelor’s degree. These two groups are not that far apart in respect to actual education. It’s not educated vs. uneducated, it’s credentialed vs. not.

    I wonder if the same dynamic is at work with other social issues.
     
    education is propaganda from the plutocrats/corporations/govt/media/non-profits. That is pro-immigration multiculturalism.

    The more formal education you have, the more propagandized. In general, of course.
    , @William Badwhite
    Also who is taking it in the shorts economically. 30mm Mexicans aren't pushing out university professors and journalists and diversicrats. But try being a white guy making a living as a carpenter these days.
  10. Is there breakdown of Foreign born Asian and Native born Asian? Is lack anti immigrant sentiment in Asians a result of most of them not being born here rather than them being Asian.?

  11. So outside of Asians and the foreign-born, immigration reduction is the preferred policy in regards to the immigration issue. Quick, somebody tell the GOP brain trust. And while they are at it, somebody needs to tell the democrat brain trust the same thing.

  12. @HA
    Is there a breakdown by, say, which countries we need more or less immigration from? Because I'm guessing even many of the Asians that want more immigration aren't necessarily indifferent regarding the optimal geographical distribution of any added influx.

    People, whether native or foreign-born, are generally for increased immigration of their own group and reduced immigration of other groups.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    so race isn't just a social contruct?
  13. and yet none of the many republicans running for president will pledge to reduce or halt immigration. Just as none are calling for the charges against the Baltimore police officers to be dismissed, or the evidence released. None want to discuss the role of section 8 housing in the destruction of towns like Ferguson.

  14. Kind of meaningless questions. We have the highest immigration rate in the world, and someone wants it “Reduced a little”. What is “a little”, is it 10%? I would like to see the chart with only “reduced a lot” minus the other three.

    Better questions would be: “we need another ‘operation wetback’ and “we should build a fence”.

  15. @inertial
    On the surface, it looks like the less educated a person is, the more likely he is to be against more immigration. But looking closer, this is not exactly the story. Note the discrepancy between "Some college" and Bachelor’s degree. These two groups are not that far apart in respect to actual education. It's not educated vs. uneducated, it's credentialed vs. not.

    I wonder if the same dynamic is at work with other social issues.

    people with low IQ are more likely to oppose immigration.

    • Replies: @pork pie hat
    I wonder if we'll ever valorize dumb people as a class. I wonder why we haven't, already. They're just less interesting, and too lumpen, maybe? Maybe you can't even point out that they're dumb and can't fend for themselves, so that they're an embarrassment rather than something interesting (but that's the same with blacks, who get valorized). Or, better, we know all about them, so there's no new psyche-bending by violating natural and cultural mores to feel self-sacrificial internal pain over and transcend, and thus to feel virtuous about.
    , @MarkinLA
    Well people with low IQ seems to have a higher IQ when it comes to this issue. There are a lot of book smart people who hold quite stupid ideas about the world around them.
    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    Probably too obvious to require stating, but assuming your statement is correct, it is people with low IQ's who are forced to compete with the tidal wave of unskilled, illiterate peasants flooding our country. So at least in this instance, their IQ's are more than adequate to understand where their interests lie. By the way, how's your IQ?
    , @anon
    mass immigration to drive down wages was targeted at the lower income levels first. when it's the turn of the more educated to get the same treatment (which is round about now in the US) it will be too late because by then they will be a minority.
  16. Immigration pollsters never ask responders if they know the number of immigrants the US receives each year. How can someone answer a question about whether we receive too may/too few or just the right amount without knowing the numbers?

    I’d like to see a poll querying responders about basic immigrations facts. Then asking whether we receive too many immigrants or too few immigrants.

    My guess is that more knowledge about current immigration policy correlates with increased opposition to mass immigration.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes and no. It's going to be bimodal. One does not need to be all that knowledgeable about immigration stats to see that his wages are depressed by immigrants.
    , @MarkinLA
    The elites do not want the public to know anything about the whole sorry immigration mess. It makes it easier to keep the scam going and get the answers from polls the elite want.
  17. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    So how about this for a deal?

    We will support gay marriage and the right of any aging former big-shot dipshit to cut off his bits and pretend to be a woman if the elites will just stop pushing for more immigration?

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Same here. I am an immigrant who is not all that sure that his admittance to this country was particularly beneficial. I hope it was and I surely try my best to make it so but no matter what there is no denying that my arrival contributed to the decline in desirability of scientific jobs in the USA.

    Immigration needs to be curtailed drastically. Admit the only the best of the best while discriminating somewhat against non-Europeans or the country as we know will be lost.
    , @Truth

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.
     
    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they've made the roof.
  18. @inertial
    On the surface, it looks like the less educated a person is, the more likely he is to be against more immigration. But looking closer, this is not exactly the story. Note the discrepancy between "Some college" and Bachelor’s degree. These two groups are not that far apart in respect to actual education. It's not educated vs. uneducated, it's credentialed vs. not.

    I wonder if the same dynamic is at work with other social issues.

    On the surface, it looks like the less educated a person is, the more likely he is to be against more immigration. But looking closer, this is not exactly the story. Note the discrepancy between “Some college” and Bachelor’s degree. These two groups are not that far apart in respect to actual education. It’s not educated vs. uneducated, it’s credentialed vs. not.

    I wonder if the same dynamic is at work with other social issues.

    education is propaganda from the plutocrats/corporations/govt/media/non-profits. That is pro-immigration multiculturalism.

    The more formal education you have, the more propagandized. In general, of course.

  19. @flyover hick
    Immigration pollsters never ask responders if they know the number of immigrants the US receives each year. How can someone answer a question about whether we receive too may/too few or just the right amount without knowing the numbers?

    I’d like to see a poll querying responders about basic immigrations facts. Then asking whether we receive too many immigrants or too few immigrants.

    My guess is that more knowledge about current immigration policy correlates with increased opposition to mass immigration.

    Yes and no. It’s going to be bimodal. One does not need to be all that knowledgeable about immigration stats to see that his wages are depressed by immigrants.

  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @The most deplorable one
    So how about this for a deal?

    We will support gay marriage and the right of any aging former big-shot dipshit to cut off his bits and pretend to be a woman if the elites will just stop pushing for more immigration?

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.

    Same here. I am an immigrant who is not all that sure that his admittance to this country was particularly beneficial. I hope it was and I surely try my best to make it so but no matter what there is no denying that my arrival contributed to the decline in desirability of scientific jobs in the USA.

    Immigration needs to be curtailed drastically. Admit the only the best of the best while discriminating somewhat against non-Europeans or the country as we know will be lost.

  21. OT:Emma Sulkowicz aka Columbia’s Mattress Girl just released a new reenactment of her “rape”: NSFW found at cecinestpasunviol dot com.
    Crazy and hilarious.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    Was it Haven Monahan?
    , @IBC
    Her father has his own Wikipedia page. It says that he's been described as "one of the most sought after psychoanalysts in the world." Does that tells us something?
  22. Rich people want fewer immigrants according to that chart. So does this mean George Soros, Jeb Bush, Hillary Rodham, and Bill Gates views on wanting mass immigration from the 3rd world into the U.S are in the minority among rich people? Are these people’s political views on immigration considered fringe even by the standards of the wealthy 1 percent?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    So does this mean George Soros, Jeb Bush, Hillary Rodham, and Bill Gates views on wanting mass immigration from the 3rd world into the U.S are in the minority among rich people?
     
    If the antis outnumber the pros, they sure as hell don't outdonate them!
  23. “it all comes down to a lack of democracy. Because of its size and diversity, america is not united.”

    Basically what it comes down to is that Congress has far too many issues on the table for voters to ever effectively render a verdict on any single issue. There are a handful – taxes and perhaps war, but those are pretty much it. So Congress doesn’t have to represent “the will of the people,” and they’re probably quite happy about that.

    The time has come for ballot referenda on the federal level, but how that could be feasibly done is anyone’s guess.

    This country has grown far too large and far too diverse for it to be managed on behalf of the people.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Isn't that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?
    , @leftist conservative

    The time has come for ballot referenda on the federal level, but how that could be feasibly done is anyone’s guess.

    This country has grown far too large and far too diverse for it to be managed on behalf of the people.
     
    The answer lies in devolving power back to the states. Gradually, that is. The more local the gov't, the more democratic. At least as far as white majority nations go.
    Look around the world. Small, white nations are the best place to live.
    The trick is to make the USA into 50 semi-autonomous nations.

    There are two paths:
    1. Propaganda.
    2. An article 5 convention of the state legislatures where 38 state legislatures convene and ratify constitutional amendments to weaken the grip of the fed govt.
  24. @OsRazor
    Even foreign born register positive by 7, which doesn't seem that high. The really surprising number is the difference between men and women--I know it includes all races, etc.--there might be little difference between White women and men--but it surprises me that women are more negative about immigration than men. It goes against so much I've assumed, backed up by women having much more liberal voting patterns and policy positions compared to men. I wonder how intense women's dislike of immigration is. Very interesting.

    Perhaps immigrants are more likely to be male? In other words, a disproportionate number of the “foreign-born” respondents are male, and that results in the male/female disparity. Just a guess.

  25. @Wilkey
    "it all comes down to a lack of democracy. Because of its size and diversity, america is not united."

    Basically what it comes down to is that Congress has far too many issues on the table for voters to ever effectively render a verdict on any single issue. There are a handful - taxes and perhaps war, but those are pretty much it. So Congress doesn't have to represent "the will of the people," and they're probably quite happy about that.

    The time has come for ballot referenda on the federal level, but how that could be feasibly done is anyone's guess.

    This country has grown far too large and far too diverse for it to be managed on behalf of the people.

    Isn’t that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?

    • Replies: @leftist conservative

    Isn’t that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?
     
    But but but....a republic if you can keep it!

    But but but...our constitution!

    But but but ....Jefferson! Washington!

    We gotta keep down that ugly majority. The tyranny of the majority must be stopped! People like you and me are just...bad people!
    , @slumber_j
    Oh, God: they're inside my head. I read that, "To prevent the tranny of the majority."
  26. @foxy
    people with low IQ are more likely to oppose immigration.

    I wonder if we’ll ever valorize dumb people as a class. I wonder why we haven’t, already. They’re just less interesting, and too lumpen, maybe? Maybe you can’t even point out that they’re dumb and can’t fend for themselves, so that they’re an embarrassment rather than something interesting (but that’s the same with blacks, who get valorized). Or, better, we know all about them, so there’s no new psyche-bending by violating natural and cultural mores to feel self-sacrificial internal pain over and transcend, and thus to feel virtuous about.

    • Replies: @Greg Pandatshang
    I seem to recall 9Volt pointing out a long time ago that the platform of the True Finns party (I believe it was) was completely mystifying to him until he realised that everything they stood for was consistently whatever would be good for the bottom half of the IQ bell curve. But of course, the True Finns themselves couldn't say that in so many words.
  27. Do you really think that the elitists give a damn about public opinion?

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Do you really think that [our rulers] give a damn about public opinion?
     
    Hell, yeah, they do. They perceive that as the most crucial means to achieving their ends, and they are right.
  28. @iSteveFan

    Women are particularly anti-immigration
     
    Whiskey, explain that. You always say women want more sexy, sexy, sexy immigrants. What gives?

    Whiskey is correct, all women secretly lust after the 5’5″ squat brown Indios who make sub-minimum wage cutting their grass.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Whiskey is correct, all women secretly lust after the 5’5″ squat brown Indios who make sub-minimum wage cutting their grass."

    I have seen some White trash Gringa chicks dating thuggish looking alpha male Amerindian/Mestizo men who look like they belong to a gang. This is especially common in places like Fresno and The Inland Empire that have a sizable White underclass population. Whites in these areas on average are less affluent than Whites in Los Angeles, San Diego, and The Bay Area.
  29. The some college/bachelor’s contrast is interesting.

  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In the UK the immigrationists used to make a big deal about opposition to immigration being a ‘generational thing’ , claiming that the young are more open to immigration, and that scepticism towards immigration will gradually disappear as the older generations die off – they really are that callous and use those self same words.
    But, unfortunately for the immigrationists, it seems here too it is a ‘maturity thing’, as popular hostility towards massive immigration has never gone away, even after the passage of nigh on 70 years.

    • Replies: @leftist conservative

    In the UK the immigrationists used to make a big deal about opposition to immigration being a ‘generational thing’ , claiming that the young are more open to immigration, and that scepticism towards immigration will gradually disappear as the older generations die off – they really are that callous and use those self same words.
    But, unfortunately for the immigrationists, it seems here too it is a ‘maturity thing’, as popular hostility towards massive immigration has never gone away, even after the passage of nigh on 70 years.
     
    As you grow older and wiser, time and wisdom weaken the grip of the multiculturalist propaganda that was injected into your brain during school.
  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @OsRazor
    Even foreign born register positive by 7, which doesn't seem that high. The really surprising number is the difference between men and women--I know it includes all races, etc.--there might be little difference between White women and men--but it surprises me that women are more negative about immigration than men. It goes against so much I've assumed, backed up by women having much more liberal voting patterns and policy positions compared to men. I wonder how intense women's dislike of immigration is. Very interesting.

    ” … but it surprises me that women are more negative about immigration than men. It goes against so much I’ve assumed, backed up by women having much more liberal voting patterns and policy positions compared to men. I wonder how intense women’s dislike of immigration is. Very interesting.”

    Here are some thoughts:

    1.) Women don’t like the implications of increased immigration for the children, in terms of the demographic make-up of the children’s schools and how it affects their children’s education, the demographic changes in their neighborhoods and how it affects their children’s lives (friendships, safety, etc.), and the general outlook for their children’s futures, economically and demographically

    2.) Women like places that are safe, and they may be coming to realize that many of the immigrants we’re getting might pose some threat to the general safety level of our country.

    3.) Also, they may be realizing that many of the immigrants we’re getting are not from countries where women’s rights are highly regarded.

  32. […] Sailer just posted about which American groups favor immigration.  The numbers disfavoring more immigration would suggest that we will have few immigrants edging […]

  33. @Justin
    Whiskey is correct, all women secretly lust after the 5'5" squat brown Indios who make sub-minimum wage cutting their grass.

    “Whiskey is correct, all women secretly lust after the 5’5″ squat brown Indios who make sub-minimum wage cutting their grass.”

    I have seen some White trash Gringa chicks dating thuggish looking alpha male Amerindian/Mestizo men who look like they belong to a gang. This is especially common in places like Fresno and The Inland Empire that have a sizable White underclass population. Whites in these areas on average are less affluent than Whites in Los Angeles, San Diego, and The Bay Area.

  34. Nico says:

    Interesting that the “foreign-born” differential is smaller than that of the Asian differential. Keeping in mind that Asians have overtaken Latinos in “official” immigration figures, my hunch is that 1. the Asian-born are especially pro-immigration, and 2. fears of Asiatic irredentism/colonialism/”Yellow Peril” are correct.

    The figure for women is very interesting. But then, it’s a well-known but unpronounceable truth that black, Arab and subcontinental men are much more forward with their advances on women than whites are. (That said, it is also true that an important minority of women, who for whatever reason do not share the same class prejudices as their fellow travelers, find that a turn-on.)

  35. The numbers disfavoring more immigration would suggest that we will soon have fewer immigrants replacing American programmers. America is a democracy, and has a long history of successful organized labor movements. Will territorial ‘brogrammers’ edge out foreigners the way they supposedly edge out women?

    I am doubtful, given the docile demeanor of most home-grown coders I have met:
    http://www.crass.us/2015/06/does-americas-history-of-successful-organized-labor-may-signify-nothing-for-american-programmers/

    • Replies: @SFG
    It's not just physical docility--they can be quite aggressive online. It's the general asociality of the personality type; they don't like to lead or follow. They don't form groups well. It's why libertarianism is so attractive to them.

    Myself I remember fantasizing in my younger years about leading a horde of nerds to bully and humiliate athletes, but of course I knew the numbers weren't there on my side.

    The one thing you could do is try to get them to form countermobs against these SJW twitter storms; it's how they exercise at least some of their power and hence an area of vulnerability. Gamergate had some success in this regard, but they didn't follow up. It's one movement I'd have the ability and desire to join, but I have no clue how to do so. (I hate feminism more than other types of liberalism, so...)

    , @MarkinLA
    It isn't just programmers. It is engineering in general. I have been talking to engineers as long as there has been an H-1B program and the answers I get are things like "we do better on our own" or "I can compete with anybody" all thinking they are so special and superior that it is the other guy who will get laid off. They have very little street smarts and are easily conned by management.

    They don't realize that EVERYBODY is replaceable at some point, either your salary is too high for the work you are doing or we don't expect to need your skills for the next few years and will find your replacement when we have to.
  36. @iSteveFan

    Women are particularly anti-immigration
     
    Whiskey, explain that. You always say women want more sexy, sexy, sexy immigrants. What gives?

    That’s easy. He will say they are lying. After all, he claims they are lying on all other surveys as well.

  37. Asians and the foreign-born

    As “Audacious Epigone” points out, there is considerably overlap between those two categories (I think about 70% of Asians in the U.S. are foreign-born, and that proportion is expected to increase in the next decades due to high levels of immigration from Asia).

    I happen to be ethnically Asian and I am also foreign-born. And while I am against further mass immigration from anywhere (I want to reduce immigration drastically), unfortunately other people who fall in the same categories do not share my assimilationist tendencies.

    Today the top immigrant sources of origin are, China, India, and Mexico… whose immigrants happen to have some of the lowest rates of assimilation. When you have a large number of migrants who do not assimilate easily, we no longer have Americans-to-be in a melting pot (better yet, “a little bit of salt in the soup” as Derbyshire once put it) – we now have colonists.

    On a side note, I wish I could see further breakdowns of the survey responses. For example, how do U.S.-born Asians and Hispanics answer compared to American-born Asians and Hispanics (even better, how do they respond in generational terms)? And also, how do the various nationalities (e.g. Chinese vs. Filipinos and Mexicans vs. Cubans, etc.) respond?

    • Replies: @Vijay
    "Today the top immigrant sources of origin are, China, India, and Mexico… whose immigrants happen to have some of the lowest rates of assimilation"

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way? Certainly, not in terms of linguistic assimilation -- many of the immigrants themselves are more comfortable in English than in any other language? Rates of intermarriage are really high. Their kids flock to learn Western classical music.

    Obviously, unlike earlier European immigrants, they'll still look different but other than that, I'm not clear on what you're talking about. Since you're Asian yourself, I'm curious why you think this.
  38. So basically this phenomenon is being driven by the political donor class. And maybe the left leadership who believe they are importing votes.

    • Replies: @anon
    Yep, the economic right and the cultural left colluding against the middle.
  39. So everybody except Asians and the foreign-born favors reducing the numbers of immigrants to America. Hispanics are solidly so, although not as much as blacks and whites. Women are particularly anti-immigration. Every age group wants the number of immigrants reduced, and every age group over 29 is similar, suggesting it’s not a generation thing, it’s a maturity thing.

    If America were a democracy, this majority desire for less immigration would presumably translate into less immigration. So America is not a democracy on perhaps the most important issue of all.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    America is an oligarchy.
  40. @Tregon
    So everybody except Asians and the foreign-born favors reducing the numbers of immigrants to America. Hispanics are solidly so, although not as much as blacks and whites. Women are particularly anti-immigration. Every age group wants the number of immigrants reduced, and every age group over 29 is similar, suggesting it’s not a generation thing, it’s a maturity thing.

    If America were a democracy, this majority desire for less immigration would presumably translate into less immigration. So America is not a democracy on perhaps the most important issue of all.

    America is an oligarchy.

  41. The more upper-class/high IQ/educated you are, the more you favor immigration.

    Upper class (17.3)
    Middle class (23.9)
    Underclass (32.1)
    Working class (34.5)

    The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lasch

    We Are The World — “Love is all we need”

    • Replies: @Mike Zwick
    It is significant that the working class has a high number that wants to see immigration reduced. They are much more affected by immigration that any other group. It elites want it because they can pay their workers less if they are foreign born.
    , @AnAnon
    those numbers all indicate opposition to immigration, it is more correct to say the less you disfavor immigration.
  42. As soon as the majority of immigrants will come from west africa women will be rather in favour of immigration

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    As soon as the majority of immigrants will come from west africa women will be rather in favour of immigration
     
    Why would the US allow immigration from Africa? I thought that unlike Europe, you need to be skilled to immigrate. Has that changed? Here in Germany lots of unskilled people are in our country, especially turks and muslims in general. And now lots of africans who don't even speak english fluently are coming to us. That's a bad idea, why would the US do the same? Or is Europe indeed copying the US?
    , @BurplesonAFB
    the cucks only forum is elsewhere, kindly keep your perversions off iSteve
  43. Women prefer to find mates of their own race and background. When you live in a multicultural society, dating is more like slushing through that giant and ever-growing pile of trash in the middle of the ocean. It’s a pain in the arse to have to slap away all these annoying men of other races and ethnicities to get what you want.

    I would even say that nowadays many men and women who interracially marry are those who have given up the fight and just taken the first piece of flotsam that floats their way. I think that in itself is a Darwinian fitness test.

    But if you have limited income, finding a same race mate in a multicultural society could be impossible.

    And that’s a tragedy we all have to work hard to prevent.

  44. @OsRazor
    Even foreign born register positive by 7, which doesn't seem that high. The really surprising number is the difference between men and women--I know it includes all races, etc.--there might be little difference between White women and men--but it surprises me that women are more negative about immigration than men. It goes against so much I've assumed, backed up by women having much more liberal voting patterns and policy positions compared to men. I wonder how intense women's dislike of immigration is. Very interesting.

    I always figured it was the crime thing.

  45. @iSteveFan

    Women are particularly anti-immigration
     
    Whiskey, explain that. You always say women want more sexy, sexy, sexy immigrants. What gives?

    Maybe it’s because women hate, hate, hate Asian beta males?

  46. SFG says:
    @Crassus
    The numbers disfavoring more immigration would suggest that we will soon have fewer immigrants replacing American programmers. America is a democracy, and has a long history of successful organized labor movements. Will territorial 'brogrammers' edge out foreigners the way they supposedly edge out women?

    I am doubtful, given the docile demeanor of most home-grown coders I have met:
    http://www.crass.us/2015/06/does-americas-history-of-successful-organized-labor-may-signify-nothing-for-american-programmers/

    It’s not just physical docility–they can be quite aggressive online. It’s the general asociality of the personality type; they don’t like to lead or follow. They don’t form groups well. It’s why libertarianism is so attractive to them.

    Myself I remember fantasizing in my younger years about leading a horde of nerds to bully and humiliate athletes, but of course I knew the numbers weren’t there on my side.

    The one thing you could do is try to get them to form countermobs against these SJW twitter storms; it’s how they exercise at least some of their power and hence an area of vulnerability. Gamergate had some success in this regard, but they didn’t follow up. It’s one movement I’d have the ability and desire to join, but I have no clue how to do so. (I hate feminism more than other types of liberalism, so…)

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    It’s not just physical docility–they can be quite aggressive online. It’s the general asociality of the personality type; they don’t like to lead or follow. They don’t form groups well.
     
    Also:

    It isn’t just programmers. It is engineering in general. I have been talking to engineers as long as there has been an H-1B program and the answers I get are things like “we do better on our own” or “I can compete with anybody” all thinking they are so special and superior that it is the other guy who will get laid off. They have very little street smarts and are easily conned by management.

    They're productive and apolitical. As Bowery said,

    The promotion of politics exterminates apolitical genes in the population. The promotion of frontiers gives apolitical genes a route to survival.

  47. @inertial
    People, whether native or foreign-born, are generally for increased immigration of their own group and reduced immigration of other groups.

    so race isn’t just a social contruct?

  48. My guess is that women are more likely to interface with immigrants than men are. Therefore they face the problems that they bring at a higher rate. Think of the main female professions – nursing, teachers, bank tellers, HR, social workers, etc.

    The better educated not having as much resistance is simply because they do not see themselves competing against the flood of low performing immigrants.

  49. The Transbordered and the transgendered.

    The true heroes of America.

  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Erik Sieven
    As soon as the majority of immigrants will come from west africa women will be rather in favour of immigration

    As soon as the majority of immigrants will come from west africa women will be rather in favour of immigration

    Why would the US allow immigration from Africa? I thought that unlike Europe, you need to be skilled to immigrate. Has that changed? Here in Germany lots of unskilled people are in our country, especially turks and muslims in general. And now lots of africans who don’t even speak english fluently are coming to us. That’s a bad idea, why would the US do the same? Or is Europe indeed copying the US?

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    "Why would the US allow immigration from Africa?" - diversity lottery. yes thats right, we reward people for being radically different from us and unable to assimilate with American citizenship. From there they get chainmigration, and when that ramps up we'll get unending floods of them.
  51. @European-American
    The more upper-class/high IQ/educated you are, the more you favor immigration.

    Upper class (17.3)
    Middle class (23.9)
    Underclass (32.1)
    Working class (34.5)

    The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lasch

    We Are The World -- "Love is all we need"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BNoNFKCBI

    It is significant that the working class has a high number that wants to see immigration reduced. They are much more affected by immigration that any other group. It elites want it because they can pay their workers less if they are foreign born.

  52. @Anonymous
    Isn't that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?

    Isn’t that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?

    But but but….a republic if you can keep it!

    But but but…our constitution!

    But but but ….Jefferson! Washington!

    We gotta keep down that ugly majority. The tyranny of the majority must be stopped! People like you and me are just…bad people!

    • Replies: @Ivy
    Brucie wanted to get rid of his pesky Y chromosome to become part of the tranny of the majority.
    , @Hibernian
    The Electoral College limits the effect of vote fraud in Massachusetts to Massachusetts, which is in the bag for the Dems anyway. Imagine a President Al Gore on 911. Direct democracy will do more to empower political bosses who vote the graveyards than anyone else, if it is adopted.
  53. @Curtis
    My main question is why are women particularly against immigration. They see immigrants as rivals in the job place? Lots of women work in retail, and I don't see immigrants working there.

    Maybe they are finally starting to wise up and realize that immigration is hurting their kids. I once remember being off work and channel surfing. I saw one of those idiot women’s afternoon talk shows. They were starting to rant about white men. Finally, one women got up and said her two sons were white men. I kind of quieted the crowd down.

  54. @Wilkey
    "it all comes down to a lack of democracy. Because of its size and diversity, america is not united."

    Basically what it comes down to is that Congress has far too many issues on the table for voters to ever effectively render a verdict on any single issue. There are a handful - taxes and perhaps war, but those are pretty much it. So Congress doesn't have to represent "the will of the people," and they're probably quite happy about that.

    The time has come for ballot referenda on the federal level, but how that could be feasibly done is anyone's guess.

    This country has grown far too large and far too diverse for it to be managed on behalf of the people.

    The time has come for ballot referenda on the federal level, but how that could be feasibly done is anyone’s guess.

    This country has grown far too large and far too diverse for it to be managed on behalf of the people.

    The answer lies in devolving power back to the states. Gradually, that is. The more local the gov’t, the more democratic. At least as far as white majority nations go.
    Look around the world. Small, white nations are the best place to live.
    The trick is to make the USA into 50 semi-autonomous nations.

    There are two paths:
    1. Propaganda.
    2. An article 5 convention of the state legislatures where 38 state legislatures convene and ratify constitutional amendments to weaken the grip of the fed govt.

  55. @foxy
    people with low IQ are more likely to oppose immigration.

    Well people with low IQ seems to have a higher IQ when it comes to this issue. There are a lot of book smart people who hold quite stupid ideas about the world around them.

  56. @flyover hick
    Immigration pollsters never ask responders if they know the number of immigrants the US receives each year. How can someone answer a question about whether we receive too may/too few or just the right amount without knowing the numbers?

    I’d like to see a poll querying responders about basic immigrations facts. Then asking whether we receive too many immigrants or too few immigrants.

    My guess is that more knowledge about current immigration policy correlates with increased opposition to mass immigration.

    The elites do not want the public to know anything about the whole sorry immigration mess. It makes it easier to keep the scam going and get the answers from polls the elite want.

  57. @Anonymous
    In the UK the immigrationists used to make a big deal about opposition to immigration being a 'generational thing' , claiming that the young are more open to immigration, and that scepticism towards immigration will gradually disappear as the older generations die off - they really are that callous and use those self same words.
    But, unfortunately for the immigrationists, it seems here too it is a 'maturity thing', as popular hostility towards massive immigration has never gone away, even after the passage of nigh on 70 years.

    In the UK the immigrationists used to make a big deal about opposition to immigration being a ‘generational thing’ , claiming that the young are more open to immigration, and that scepticism towards immigration will gradually disappear as the older generations die off – they really are that callous and use those self same words.
    But, unfortunately for the immigrationists, it seems here too it is a ‘maturity thing’, as popular hostility towards massive immigration has never gone away, even after the passage of nigh on 70 years.

    As you grow older and wiser, time and wisdom weaken the grip of the multiculturalist propaganda that was injected into your brain during school.

  58. @Crassus
    The numbers disfavoring more immigration would suggest that we will soon have fewer immigrants replacing American programmers. America is a democracy, and has a long history of successful organized labor movements. Will territorial 'brogrammers' edge out foreigners the way they supposedly edge out women?

    I am doubtful, given the docile demeanor of most home-grown coders I have met:
    http://www.crass.us/2015/06/does-americas-history-of-successful-organized-labor-may-signify-nothing-for-american-programmers/

    It isn’t just programmers. It is engineering in general. I have been talking to engineers as long as there has been an H-1B program and the answers I get are things like “we do better on our own” or “I can compete with anybody” all thinking they are so special and superior that it is the other guy who will get laid off. They have very little street smarts and are easily conned by management.

    They don’t realize that EVERYBODY is replaceable at some point, either your salary is too high for the work you are doing or we don’t expect to need your skills for the next few years and will find your replacement when we have to.

  59. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve always had a sense that most people don’t want these massive levels of immigration.

    It’s framed as bigotry by the elites, but I don’t really think so. It’s just very disruptive and divisive, and it creates conflict and headaches that people don’t need… everyone is constantly upset and feels hard done by… It’s just plain unhealthy for this upheaval to happen so rapidly. Any rational person should be able to comprehend this.

    If we could just get a series of rock solid studies like this to make people’s feelings openly known….politicians will NEED to fall in line

  60. @Anonymous
    Isn't that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?

    Oh, God: they’re inside my head. I read that, “To prevent the tranny of the majority.”

  61. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Anonymous
    OT:Emma Sulkowicz aka Columbia's Mattress Girl just released a new reenactment of her "rape": NSFW found at cecinestpasunviol dot com.
    Crazy and hilarious.

    Was it Haven Monahan?

  62. @Twinkie

    Asians and the foreign-born
     
    As "Audacious Epigone" points out, there is considerably overlap between those two categories (I think about 70% of Asians in the U.S. are foreign-born, and that proportion is expected to increase in the next decades due to high levels of immigration from Asia).

    I happen to be ethnically Asian and I am also foreign-born. And while I am against further mass immigration from anywhere (I want to reduce immigration drastically), unfortunately other people who fall in the same categories do not share my assimilationist tendencies.

    Today the top immigrant sources of origin are, China, India, and Mexico... whose immigrants happen to have some of the lowest rates of assimilation. When you have a large number of migrants who do not assimilate easily, we no longer have Americans-to-be in a melting pot (better yet, "a little bit of salt in the soup" as Derbyshire once put it) - we now have colonists.

    On a side note, I wish I could see further breakdowns of the survey responses. For example, how do U.S.-born Asians and Hispanics answer compared to American-born Asians and Hispanics (even better, how do they respond in generational terms)? And also, how do the various nationalities (e.g. Chinese vs. Filipinos and Mexicans vs. Cubans, etc.) respond?

    “Today the top immigrant sources of origin are, China, India, and Mexico… whose immigrants happen to have some of the lowest rates of assimilation”

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way? Certainly, not in terms of linguistic assimilation — many of the immigrants themselves are more comfortable in English than in any other language? Rates of intermarriage are really high. Their kids flock to learn Western classical music.

    Obviously, unlike earlier European immigrants, they’ll still look different but other than that, I’m not clear on what you’re talking about. Since you’re Asian yourself, I’m curious why you think this.

    • Replies: @Sheila
    Typical arrogant, immigrant comment. Assimilation = speaking English (sort of), wearing jeans, and eating pizza. Oh, and let's not forget marrying White women. I prefer the wisdom of Kipling:

    The Stranger within my gates,
    He may be evil or good,
    But I cannot tell what powers control--
    What reasons sway his mood;
    Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
    Shall repossess his blood.

    The men of my own stock,
    Bitter bad they may be,
    But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
    And see the things I see;
    And whatever I think of them and their likes
    They think of the likes of me.

    This was my father's belief
    And this is also mine:
    Let the corn be all one sheaf--
    And the grapes be all one vine,
    Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
    By bitter bread and wine.
    , @Twinkie

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way?
     
    Read the study: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_53.htm

    In particular, look at the figures 3, 5, and 6.

    Among the major immigrant groups, those with the lowest overall assimilation rates are the immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador, China, and India. In particular Chinese, Indians, and Mexicans have the lowest rates of cultural assimilation while Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Indians have the lowest rates of civic assimilation. And this *despite* the fact that Indians typically arrive with much better English ability than immigrants from other Hispanic or Asian countries.

    And when you look at other data over the past thirty years, it becomes very clear that among the major Asian groups while the Chinese account for the plurality among the immigrants, the number of immigrants from India has increased at the highest rate by far, no doubt spurred by the IT industry. So Indians are the fastest growing immigrant group within the fastest growing ethno-racial category ("Asians") in the U.S., and they, along with Chinese and Mexicans, have the lowest rates of assimilation, as well as voting overwhelmingly for the Democratic party, usually by a roughly 8-t0-1 margin.

    In my view, this is not a good trend for conservatives, for the country, and for Christianity in the U.S.
  63. @pork pie hat
    I wonder if we'll ever valorize dumb people as a class. I wonder why we haven't, already. They're just less interesting, and too lumpen, maybe? Maybe you can't even point out that they're dumb and can't fend for themselves, so that they're an embarrassment rather than something interesting (but that's the same with blacks, who get valorized). Or, better, we know all about them, so there's no new psyche-bending by violating natural and cultural mores to feel self-sacrificial internal pain over and transcend, and thus to feel virtuous about.

    I seem to recall 9Volt pointing out a long time ago that the platform of the True Finns party (I believe it was) was completely mystifying to him until he realised that everything they stood for was consistently whatever would be good for the bottom half of the IQ bell curve. But of course, the True Finns themselves couldn’t say that in so many words.

  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, I read you three times a day, but is not your interpretation of the age data a bit tendentious?An alternate interpretation would be as follows: for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this “natural” part of the US landscape. I’m around a lot of young people and many see foreigners as a source of cosmopolitanism, an antidote to the provincialism of their mid-sized cities. Such thinking is anathema to most readers here, but cannot be discounted among the younger citizens of the new, diverse USA.

    Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They’re not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them.
    But I for one doubt that the 18–29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You are probably correct that the young movers and shakers of Manhattan and San Francisco love cosmopolitanism and prefer it to the 'provincialism' of their home towns.

    The people who flock to Manhattan and SF are a self-selecting breed though, and they are a minority. A large percentage of them have pre-existing hostility to mainstream America for various reasons. (They are usually gay, jewish, feminist, etc.)

    These people have the right and the ability to carve out a niche for themselves in society...but they are not satisfied with this - they want to wage a full-on culture war. They will not stop until they have crushed all dissent (or they themselves are crushed)

    Not everyone has the ability or *desire* to be part of a cosmopolitan 'elite'...in fact most people don't want anything to do with it. They are perfectly content in their home towns among their own people.
    , @anon
    "Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They’re not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them."

    They're not going to maintain their profit margins with them.

    Mass immigration doesn't just lower the wages bill; lowering the wages bill lowers the demand in the economy creating a vicious spiral:
    - immigration reduces wages* -> employers make more money
    - reduced wages lowers demand -> employers make less money

    so then they want even more immigration to reduce wages even more and

    - immigration reduces wages -> employers make more money
    - reduced wages lowers demand -> employers make less money

    and round and round it goes.

    Mass immigration is one of the two major *causes* of the global economic depression in the West. (The other being the banks' debt-pushing.)

    (* more accurately the flat-lining of wages combined with increasing housing and transport costs reduces discretionary income)
    , @BillP
    "for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this “natural” part of the US landscape."

    What these young people are going to realize, as many of us who are slightly older already have is that they have been living in a narrow slice of US history, and basing your political worldview on this slice is probably a bad idea.

    What currently seems to them a relatively stable and sustainable age will, as they hit their late 30s, start looking more like what the rest of us see, ie; a gradual decline held together by the lingering institutions of the past into a gaping, rootless chaos.

    For me it was "gosh I can remember when white kids actually worked in fast food" that helped me see the objective demographic/institutional drift during my lifetime. For them it might be "gosh I can remember when white people weren't routinely raped and set on fire".

    , @MarkinLA
    But I for one doubt that the 18–29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35…

    Depends if they have a mortgage and kids and have to start worrying about layoffs and retraining their H-1B replacements then they will get their epiphany.
  65. In 25 years, my Texas suburb has been completely transformed by immigration from India, China and Africa, to the point where it is not at all unusual to look around at the grocery store or mall and realize that you are the only white person in sight.

    There are very real drawbacks to this kind of rapid demographic change. Everyday tasks such as picking up a prescription at the pharmacy become long, drawn-out affairs as customers and workers struggle to communicate. There is little neighborhood cohesion … my next-door-neighbor speaks only Mandarin, and we have no way to communicate. I don’t even know her name, and we’ve lived in close proximity for 10 years.

    There are few community traditions left; my neighborhood canceled its annual Easter egg hunt to avoid offending the many Muslims who have moved in. And the schools have changed dramatically (for the worse) as the population has splintered into various groups of immigrants. Try explaining what “homecoming” is to a parent who barely speaks English and is suspicious of anything American.

    My family calls these things the “immigrant tax” that we pay — every day — to allow all these folks to come here and make a good living. I am tired of paying.

  66. Wade says:

    Seeing those results is breathtaking when I stop to consider how much in the last 7 years or more I’ve heard the phrase “Comprehensive Immigration Reform.” From the results of the poll, you’d think this popular phrase is a euphemism for “we need to put up a boarder fence and start admitting fewer people, then figure out how to send the illegals we’ve got back in a way that is as humane as possible.” Only, Comprehensive Immigration Reform seems to mean the opposite in practice.

  67. This explains the Democrats messaging of “anti-immigrant” towards Romney in 2012, it kicked harder with Asians, who voted D at a higher rate than Latins.

    The right should find a way of linking Asian concerns over crime, which worked in 2014, with immigration, it may shift the table in VA and PA.

  68. How about this for a deal: we will accept amnesty in return for an across-the-board immigration moratorium (pause, time-out) until we can assimilate and integrate the seventy-five million first- and second-generation immigrants who are already here (including the eleven million undocumented), the vast majority of whom are from societies and cultures with no, or very weak, democratic traditions. A biometric ID would also be part of the package, as it is the only realistic way to enforce our immigration laws.

    The advantages of this approach are two-fold: first, it is non-discriminatory; and secondly, it is framed in positive terms, namely, the preservation of our liberal institutions.

    The argument over the economic consequences (lower wages but a bigger GDP) has been a non-starter so far, while proposals to partially limit or reduce immigration immediately gets into the problem of discrimination.

    By phrasing it as a temporary measure, the charge of being against immigration cannot be leveled. If after a decade or two it turns out certain groups show no signs of integrating well into our society, this would be a guide for later modifications of which groups would and would not be admitted in large numbers.

    More generally, it would give us a chance to re-assess the whole issue of mass immigration, just as Europe is starting to do, and it would also allow some much-needed research into the question of whether emigration hurts or helps the development of the poor countries from which most immigrants come.

    The basic strategy should be to seize the high moral ground in terms which right-minded people would find it difficult to disagree with.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    TL;DR

    Give the left nothing, remember 1986!
    , @Anonymous
    There's no incentive for elites to push 19th century nation-state style assimilation. It's not like we have to mobilize the masses to work in factories or fight as infantrymen in a war or something. Most people spend more than half their waking life a day on the internet:

    http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/internet-pushes-media-use-more-8-hours-day-165067

    Furthermore, many middle and upper class people and elites live and work among a handful of major metro areas in the US and foreign cities. Vast expanses of America and Americans are irrelevant to them, so they're going to care even less how well or how much immigrants assimilate to American ways.
    , @anon
    The oligarchs have benefited to the tune of billions from keeping wages flat with mass immigration and they have bought Congress and the media for pennies on the dollar. They don't need to do a deal.

    They are killing the golden goose in the process (again) but I doubt they will be able to see that.
  69. So calling Whiskey Hasbara is also on the marching orders Unz gave Steve about comments that shall not be posted?

  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Asian response is interesting. There is the old adage that would-be immigrants are always in favour of immigration until they become citizens. Once one gains the benefits of citizenship, one would like to prevent these benefits from being diluted by further immigrants. We see this response with Hispanics and Blacks.

    The only reason I can think that Asians are pro-immigration is that they feel more security in numbers. They’re the smallest visible minority group. They are also probably the most fragmented immigrant group, with vast differences between East Asians, South Asians, and Pacific Islanders, which means they probably subjectively feel their numbers are even smaller than a census of number of Asians show.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Asians are well know for bringing in their elderly parents and putting them on welfare. I have a Chinese friend that tells me all the elderly brag to each other at get-togethers on how much they are scamming the system.

    He is so wealthy that his mother can comfortably stay in Hong Kong.
  71. I’d go further. I’m sure they interpreted the answer “Increased a lot” as meaning: “Change the policy to let in a lot more people just like me”.

  72. @European-American
    The more upper-class/high IQ/educated you are, the more you favor immigration.

    Upper class (17.3)
    Middle class (23.9)
    Underclass (32.1)
    Working class (34.5)

    The Revolt of the Elites and the Betrayal of Democracy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lasch

    We Are The World -- "Love is all we need"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BNoNFKCBI

    those numbers all indicate opposition to immigration, it is more correct to say the less you disfavor immigration.

  73. @Anonymous

    As soon as the majority of immigrants will come from west africa women will be rather in favour of immigration
     
    Why would the US allow immigration from Africa? I thought that unlike Europe, you need to be skilled to immigrate. Has that changed? Here in Germany lots of unskilled people are in our country, especially turks and muslims in general. And now lots of africans who don't even speak english fluently are coming to us. That's a bad idea, why would the US do the same? Or is Europe indeed copying the US?

    “Why would the US allow immigration from Africa?” – diversity lottery. yes thats right, we reward people for being radically different from us and unable to assimilate with American citizenship. From there they get chainmigration, and when that ramps up we’ll get unending floods of them.

  74. The result of an addition operation is called the sum (of the two numbers).
    The result of a subtraction is called the difference.
    The result of a multiplication is called the product.
    The result of a division is called the quotient.

    It is confusing that Audacious Epigone used the word “quotient” to describe a difference:
    “The following table shows immigration enthusiasm quotients [IEQ] for several different subgroups of respondents in the 2014 iteration of the GSS. The quotient is derived by subtracting the percentages who would like to see the number of immigrants in the US reduced from the percentages who would like to see it increased, with those wanting it to remain unchanged discounted.”
    Maybe this difference would be less confusingly described as simply the “immigration enthusiasm (IE)” of a given subpopulation. (Or “immigration approvingness”? “Immigration favorability”? Don Draper, call your “Mad Men” office.)

  75. @Erik Sieven
    As soon as the majority of immigrants will come from west africa women will be rather in favour of immigration

    the cucks only forum is elsewhere, kindly keep your perversions off iSteve

  76. Womyn look at the government like a husband; all the things she needs in life come from it.

    Having lots of immigration is like learning her ‘husband’ is supporting a dozen other families.

    Never under estimate how self centered and selfish your average womyn is. I did, to my financial ruin….

    • Replies: @dcite
    Other than Social Security I don't expect anything from the government. A friend tried to get a grant to study nursing -- she made a low-average salary in the 80s. She was told she might get assistance if she were hispanic or black. This was Montgomery County, Maryland. Another friend, in her 20s, going back to school, actually had so little money she was hungry and tried to get food stamps. She was told by the woman behind the counter (this was Florida) that she was the wrong color. And just then, on cue, up drives a black bunch in some expensive car, coming in for their food stamps. And then another friend, tried to get help for her penniless father from Social Services in Baltimore, staffed almost entirely by blacks (1980s again) and they gave her no information. She got no assistance for him and was left to pay his bills and had her credit ruined for years.

    I don't know where you get the idea that every day is strike-it-rich-at-the-government-casino-day for women. Most of the ones I know have their 401ks and Social Security. And that includes some who have been married. I have never known a woman without children to be able to collect alimony, and I have known of at a couple cases where they had to pay child support to the father who had custody--dont' know the whole story, but it was fair I guess, since they were making more than the fathers at the time.

    So no. Right now I'm putting away more than a third of a modest salary, and my calculator tells me I'll probably run out 5 years after retirement.
  77. @Anonymous
    OT:Emma Sulkowicz aka Columbia's Mattress Girl just released a new reenactment of her "rape": NSFW found at cecinestpasunviol dot com.
    Crazy and hilarious.

    Her father has his own Wikipedia page. It says that he’s been described as “one of the most sought after psychoanalysts in the world.” Does that tells us something?

  78. @Curtis
    My main question is why are women particularly against immigration. They see immigrants as rivals in the job place? Lots of women work in retail, and I don't see immigrants working there.

    The immigrants are on average more violent, criminal and chauvinistic. That’s why women don’t want them. If we were letting polite Danes, it would be a different story.

  79. @iSteveFan

    Women are particularly anti-immigration
     
    Whiskey, explain that. You always say women want more sexy, sexy, sexy immigrants. What gives?

    Not sexy immigrants. No one would say that immigrants from Michoacan are sexy. But among the class of White women I move in, Upper Middle class, yes I see a huge demand for immigrants. More and cheaper nannies, housekeepers, more people to mind/babysit in do-nothing social work, more people to manage in HR, etc.

    Keep in mind that I’m not dealing with women negatively affected by immigration: nurses, housewives, etc. [In California Filipino Nurses have effectively pushed out most White nurses outside of ER departments. In my many, many visits to local hospitals for very sick family members it is so rare as to be remarkable to see White nurses on the floors. I do see them in ERs.]

    I am surprised by the numbers. I certainly don’t see it in my dealings with UMC White women. But maybe that’s just my unique/biased view, not seeing enough working class lower Middle class White women.

    If you are a White nurse, yeah you are very vulnerable to being pushed out by immigrant labor just like a White male coder. A White HR person? So far not, same with a real estate babe, pharmacy rep (they want hot and cute young women, noticeably absent among immigrants who tend to large round balls).

  80. anon • Disclaimer says:

    It’s funny that there are about 25 Republican presidential candidates and none of them have the balls to stand up there and promise an absolute reduction in immigration. Instead, they think that they’re going to sweep to victory on the tide of voters they think are livid over an old rich celebrity getting a boob job and makeup, or the tide of voters they imagine are out there demanding to give bankers more money, cut social security, or invade Iran. It’s as if they want to win, but not badly enough to do even one smart thing.

  81. @Jack Hanson
    Realizing Whiskey is hasbara explains a lot.

    Have you read my website at all? Any of my posts on Ferguson and Rotherham? I’m likely even more against immigration than Steve, and like Steve I’ve seen a great place, Southern California ruined in my lifetime into nothing more than Baja Norte. With all that implies.

    But if poll after poll shows that immigration is unpopular, how come being against immigration is a sure-fire political loser? How come NO NADA NONE ZILCH politician has ridden anti-immigration sentiment into the White House? Why is Barack Obama the President and not Tom Tancredo? Or Jeff Sessions? Why is Dave Brat the only success story in primaries against Open Borders Republicans? If voters really don’t like mass immigration.

    Yeah there is a lot of bad actors with lots of money: Adelson, Gates, Soros, Zuckerberg, etc. Money does not buy everything, otherwise Chicago would not be rapidly turning into Detroit, with NYC following into Baltimore territory. All that big money can’t get Americans out of their cars or get guns banned. Why is it that big money can get gay marriage and tranny worship a fait accompli but can’t get guns banned (and thank God at least for that)?

    My answer is not all-powerful secret comic book supervillains, but that most people just don’t care enough about immigration. Sentiment is a mile wide and an inch deep. Unlike gun ownership (free men own weapons, slaves don’t) voters don’t punish people like Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, John McCain. Had McCain endorsed gun bans for most of his career it would have been very short. Voters knew damn well he was open borders and that mattered less than gun ownership to them in Arizona, ground zero of demographic transformation.

    My cynical take: B-L-A-C-K-S explains a lot of this. Most White voters might give lip service to sacred Blackness and original White sin and Morgan Freeman Black racial redemption, but when it comes to living with Trayvon and Michael Brown they’d prefer to live in Michoacan than Detroit. For example Mexicans have displaced Blacks from most service jobs, which would have been startling to people in say, 1960 used to seeing Black cooks as an image of delicious food (echoes of which you see in Uncle Ben’s rice and the Cream of Wheat dude). Add that working class White males lose the most, and Upper Class and non-service Middle Class White women lose the least, from immigration plus the appeal of White male bashing to White women increasingly removed and non-dependent on White men, and you get a fuller picture.

    TL:DR version: Revealed not stated preference shows that Whites value gun ownership more than preventing half of Mexico and considerable parts of China from moving here, on the theory that the immigrants are at least better than Trayvon. Plus nerdy White guys and blue collar workers get it and that’s appealing to a non-trivial part of White women employed in HR and NGO-istan.

  82. Since less immigration is what most American citizens of almost every type wants, how come our government is not reducing immigration?

    I know this is a dumb question, but still, how can we not ask it over and over again?

    • Replies: @anon
    Congress does what lobbyists pay them to do.
  83. The good part is that if I’m right; that opposition to mass Third World immigration is wide but tepid, ordinary people can be moved by pointing out how rapidly they can go from Michoacan to say, Lagos. Its one thing to live in Mexico Norte. Its another to live in Africa West.

    Supervillain type secret controllers? Nothing can be done if that is true. I don’t think it is though. There’s serious money, but they are not world-rulers either. For all of Soros money, ordinary Americans still have guns.

    Related, see Paul Kersey’s latest on Baltimore at Stuff Black People Don’t Like. Mosby has told police to stand down when not if the next riot happens (as the BS indictments of the six officers are dismissed in the Freddy Grey incident — Mosby is trying to suppress the autopsy results to hide something). There is enormous wealth destruction caused by Democratic dependence on Black voters and Morgan Freeman worship; Mexican/Chinese immigration can be seen as an ugly work-around to social stupidity. Already there is tentative hipster interest in Lennart Park in South Central.

    Honesty about Black dysfunction, that Baltimore’s Black urban underclass needs tough policing that say, Malibu and Persian-Jewish dominated Beverly Hills don’t, can negate the need for that work-around. But until then we will see that secret work-around I think.

    [If you’re not reading SBDL every day you should. Kersey has produced a stunning indictment of the costs of enabling Black urban dysfunction.]

  84. @inertial
    On the surface, it looks like the less educated a person is, the more likely he is to be against more immigration. But looking closer, this is not exactly the story. Note the discrepancy between "Some college" and Bachelor’s degree. These two groups are not that far apart in respect to actual education. It's not educated vs. uneducated, it's credentialed vs. not.

    I wonder if the same dynamic is at work with other social issues.

    Also who is taking it in the shorts economically. 30mm Mexicans aren’t pushing out university professors and journalists and diversicrats. But try being a white guy making a living as a carpenter these days.

  85. @leftist conservative

    Isn’t that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?
     
    But but but....a republic if you can keep it!

    But but but...our constitution!

    But but but ....Jefferson! Washington!

    We gotta keep down that ugly majority. The tyranny of the majority must be stopped! People like you and me are just...bad people!

    Brucie wanted to get rid of his pesky Y chromosome to become part of the tranny of the majority.

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Y chromosomes should be abolished. Stop asking questions, just do as you're told.
  86. Ivy says:

    The educational attainment section may be unpacked to explain the HS/Some college antipathy a little further.

    Educational attainment
    Bachelor’s degree (16.5)
    Master’s degree (16.8)
    Did not complete high school (30.3)
    High school graduate (35.1)
    Some college (36.0)

    If you interpret Some college to mean Corinthian, Phoenix, ITT, DeVry and their ilk, then all you need to do is to visualize the student debtors as crabs trying to crawl out of the bucket. More immigrants would drag them back into the crowded bucket faster.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    By the same token, I see the people with Master's degrees, and I remember that education, public administration, psychology, social "sciences", arts and theology are 7 of the top 10 master's degrees awarded in America. I'm not willing to give them credit for any special intellectual prowess.
  87. @Luke Lea
    How about this for a deal: we will accept amnesty in return for an across-the-board immigration moratorium (pause, time-out) until we can assimilate and integrate the seventy-five million first- and second-generation immigrants who are already here (including the eleven million undocumented), the vast majority of whom are from societies and cultures with no, or very weak, democratic traditions. A biometric ID would also be part of the package, as it is the only realistic way to enforce our immigration laws.

    The advantages of this approach are two-fold: first, it is non-discriminatory; and secondly, it is framed in positive terms, namely, the preservation of our liberal institutions.

    The argument over the economic consequences (lower wages but a bigger GDP) has been a non-starter so far, while proposals to partially limit or reduce immigration immediately gets into the problem of discrimination.

    By phrasing it as a temporary measure, the charge of being against immigration cannot be leveled. If after a decade or two it turns out certain groups show no signs of integrating well into our society, this would be a guide for later modifications of which groups would and would not be admitted in large numbers.

    More generally, it would give us a chance to re-assess the whole issue of mass immigration, just as Europe is starting to do, and it would also allow some much-needed research into the question of whether emigration hurts or helps the development of the poor countries from which most immigrants come.

    The basic strategy should be to seize the high moral ground in terms which right-minded people would find it difficult to disagree with.

    TL;DR

    Give the left nothing, remember 1986!

  88. @foxy
    people with low IQ are more likely to oppose immigration.

    Probably too obvious to require stating, but assuming your statement is correct, it is people with low IQ’s who are forced to compete with the tidal wave of unskilled, illiterate peasants flooding our country. So at least in this instance, their IQ’s are more than adequate to understand where their interests lie. By the way, how’s your IQ?

  89. @Ivy
    Brucie wanted to get rid of his pesky Y chromosome to become part of the tranny of the majority.

    Y chromosomes should be abolished. Stop asking questions, just do as you’re told.

  90. @Curtis
    My main question is why are women particularly against immigration. They see immigrants as rivals in the job place? Lots of women work in retail, and I don't see immigrants working there.

    Immigrant women have taken over industries like nurse’s aide, home health aide, and childcare and have driven down wages and benefits in these areas quite dramatically in recent decades. Of course upper class women have benefited, but their numbers are much smaller. Families haven’t benefited as far as the low level medical jobs (home health care and nurse’s aides in hospitals and nursing homes) because they haven’t seen any reduction and most people are not aware of how low paid these workers are. My first job was nurses aide and it paid double minimum wage and I was paid for months while being trained on the job (and for real, shadowing another worker most of the time so they were paying double). Now workers have to pay $1000.+ up front for training to get a CNA certificate and they are lucky to find a job at 9-11/hr etc – same deal as so many other industries. Immigrant men’s wives will work as nannies and babysitters cheap – even doing both housework and childcare without complaint, so even if you are a professional and people are willing to value experience, it is hard to demand top dollar.

  91. • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Stories like this will become everyday events:

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/apr/26/st-jude-medical-gets-23b-in-trade-secrets-case/
  92. Why do Americans seem to tell pollsters contradictory things about immigration?
    http://www.people-press.org/2015/06/04/broad-public-support-for-legal-status-for-undocumented-immigrants/

    I mean, I imagine that it’s because they sometimes feel guilty about not saying what they think the “right answer” is. Evidently some types of questions or some wordings bring out the sense of peer pressure more than others.

    But I’m interested in hard evidence for this assumption, or alternate hypotheses.

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    Polls can be revealing.

    But keep a steely eye on the pollsters.

    Yes Prime Minister:

    http://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA
    , @MarkinLA
    It has a name it is called push-polling. The questions are designed to get the intended response from the people.

    For example:

    Do you xxxxx if yyyyy and zzzzz. Everybody knows yyyyy and zzzzz will never happen but afterwards they count up all the yes votes and say it supports xxxxx even though it doesn't.
  93. @Vijay
    "Today the top immigrant sources of origin are, China, India, and Mexico… whose immigrants happen to have some of the lowest rates of assimilation"

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way? Certainly, not in terms of linguistic assimilation -- many of the immigrants themselves are more comfortable in English than in any other language? Rates of intermarriage are really high. Their kids flock to learn Western classical music.

    Obviously, unlike earlier European immigrants, they'll still look different but other than that, I'm not clear on what you're talking about. Since you're Asian yourself, I'm curious why you think this.

    Typical arrogant, immigrant comment. Assimilation = speaking English (sort of), wearing jeans, and eating pizza. Oh, and let’s not forget marrying White women. I prefer the wisdom of Kipling:

    The Stranger within my gates,
    He may be evil or good,
    But I cannot tell what powers control–
    What reasons sway his mood;
    Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
    Shall repossess his blood.

    The men of my own stock,
    Bitter bad they may be,
    But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
    And see the things I see;
    And whatever I think of them and their likes
    They think of the likes of me.

    This was my father’s belief
    And this is also mine:
    Let the corn be all one sheaf–
    And the grapes be all one vine,
    Ere our children’s teeth are set on edge
    By bitter bread and wine.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Assimilation = Ellis Islanders quoting Kipling.
  94. All of this is locking the barn door after the horses have escaped ( or rather after the raiders have gained entry). All immigration – legal and illegal, as well as “refugees” could be stopped cold tomorrow, and Whites will STILL be a minority in what was their own country in a decade at most. Those who believe in the paint-job theory (like the majority of the right-liberal commentariat here) think that some sort of pause will result in all the Indians, Asians, and Africans assimilating just as the Italians, Irish, and Poles did (and to a far lesser extent than most realize) 100 years ago. Those of us who are realists, recognize that diversity + proximity = war, and it’s not going to be pretty for either side.

    • Replies: @ingo
    Missouri Lutherans who came in the 1840's continued publishing Sunday school materials in German until 1926. 90 years to assimilation and they were saxons not bantus.
    , @Wade
    You're basically right of course.

    However, there is still hope. We may not be on top at the supreme court, but we still have control over most of our communities. We have to salvage what we can so that we can still keep our way of life. That, I believe, with immigration reduction and other reforms are still possible.

    For example, we have to end affirmative action as we know it, now. Core Americans need to come to utterly dominate all government jobs, elected or otherwise, no apologies. Even if we become a minority in national terms, we can still savage some semblance of the America of old if we make reforms now.

    Sometimes I think what's happening in places like Baltimore and Ferguson are just wake-up calls to do something.
  95. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Luke Lea
    How about this for a deal: we will accept amnesty in return for an across-the-board immigration moratorium (pause, time-out) until we can assimilate and integrate the seventy-five million first- and second-generation immigrants who are already here (including the eleven million undocumented), the vast majority of whom are from societies and cultures with no, or very weak, democratic traditions. A biometric ID would also be part of the package, as it is the only realistic way to enforce our immigration laws.

    The advantages of this approach are two-fold: first, it is non-discriminatory; and secondly, it is framed in positive terms, namely, the preservation of our liberal institutions.

    The argument over the economic consequences (lower wages but a bigger GDP) has been a non-starter so far, while proposals to partially limit or reduce immigration immediately gets into the problem of discrimination.

    By phrasing it as a temporary measure, the charge of being against immigration cannot be leveled. If after a decade or two it turns out certain groups show no signs of integrating well into our society, this would be a guide for later modifications of which groups would and would not be admitted in large numbers.

    More generally, it would give us a chance to re-assess the whole issue of mass immigration, just as Europe is starting to do, and it would also allow some much-needed research into the question of whether emigration hurts or helps the development of the poor countries from which most immigrants come.

    The basic strategy should be to seize the high moral ground in terms which right-minded people would find it difficult to disagree with.

    There’s no incentive for elites to push 19th century nation-state style assimilation. It’s not like we have to mobilize the masses to work in factories or fight as infantrymen in a war or something. Most people spend more than half their waking life a day on the internet:

    http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/internet-pushes-media-use-more-8-hours-day-165067

    Furthermore, many middle and upper class people and elites live and work among a handful of major metro areas in the US and foreign cities. Vast expanses of America and Americans are irrelevant to them, so they’re going to care even less how well or how much immigrants assimilate to American ways.

  96. @Sheila
    All of this is locking the barn door after the horses have escaped ( or rather after the raiders have gained entry). All immigration - legal and illegal, as well as "refugees" could be stopped cold tomorrow, and Whites will STILL be a minority in what was their own country in a decade at most. Those who believe in the paint-job theory (like the majority of the right-liberal commentariat here) think that some sort of pause will result in all the Indians, Asians, and Africans assimilating just as the Italians, Irish, and Poles did (and to a far lesser extent than most realize) 100 years ago. Those of us who are realists, recognize that diversity + proximity = war, and it's not going to be pretty for either side.

    Missouri Lutherans who came in the 1840’s continued publishing Sunday school materials in German until 1926. 90 years to assimilation and they were saxons not bantus.

  97. Immigration is fine as long as you can profit from it or insulate yourself from it

    You’re a loser if you can’t do either

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Immigration is fine as long as you can profit from it or insulate yourself from it

    You’re a loser if you can’t do either
     
    You're a misanthrope or a moron. Take your pick.
  98. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Steve, I read you three times a day, but is not your interpretation of the age data a bit tendentious?An alternate interpretation would be as follows: for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this "natural" part of the US landscape. I'm around a lot of young people and many see foreigners as a source of cosmopolitanism, an antidote to the provincialism of their mid-sized cities. Such thinking is anathema to most readers here, but cannot be discounted among the younger citizens of the new, diverse USA.

    Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They're not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them.
    But I for one doubt that the 18--29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35...

    You are probably correct that the young movers and shakers of Manhattan and San Francisco love cosmopolitanism and prefer it to the ‘provincialism’ of their home towns.

    The people who flock to Manhattan and SF are a self-selecting breed though, and they are a minority. A large percentage of them have pre-existing hostility to mainstream America for various reasons. (They are usually gay, jewish, feminist, etc.)

    These people have the right and the ability to carve out a niche for themselves in society…but they are not satisfied with this – they want to wage a full-on culture war. They will not stop until they have crushed all dissent (or they themselves are crushed)

    Not everyone has the ability or *desire* to be part of a cosmopolitan ‘elite’…in fact most people don’t want anything to do with it. They are perfectly content in their home towns among their own people.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Mainstream" American culture is media culture devised and disseminated out of NYC, LA, etc. Most people in flyover country do not have a meaningful or significant alternative culture, nor are they particular interested in developing one. For the most part they enjoy and consume the media culture produced on the coasts, with variation and differences in preferred channels or shows or movies, but still the same general culture.
  99. @leftist conservative

    Isn’t that part of the point of federalism? To prevent the tyranny of the majority?
     
    But but but....a republic if you can keep it!

    But but but...our constitution!

    But but but ....Jefferson! Washington!

    We gotta keep down that ugly majority. The tyranny of the majority must be stopped! People like you and me are just...bad people!

    The Electoral College limits the effect of vote fraud in Massachusetts to Massachusetts, which is in the bag for the Dems anyway. Imagine a President Al Gore on 911. Direct democracy will do more to empower political bosses who vote the graveyards than anyone else, if it is adopted.

  100. @Dr. OG
    Womyn look at the government like a husband; all the things she needs in life come from it.

    Having lots of immigration is like learning her 'husband' is supporting a dozen other families.


    Never under estimate how self centered and selfish your average womyn is. I did, to my financial ruin....

    Other than Social Security I don’t expect anything from the government. A friend tried to get a grant to study nursing — she made a low-average salary in the 80s. She was told she might get assistance if she were hispanic or black. This was Montgomery County, Maryland. Another friend, in her 20s, going back to school, actually had so little money she was hungry and tried to get food stamps. She was told by the woman behind the counter (this was Florida) that she was the wrong color. And just then, on cue, up drives a black bunch in some expensive car, coming in for their food stamps. And then another friend, tried to get help for her penniless father from Social Services in Baltimore, staffed almost entirely by blacks (1980s again) and they gave her no information. She got no assistance for him and was left to pay his bills and had her credit ruined for years.

    I don’t know where you get the idea that every day is strike-it-rich-at-the-government-casino-day for women. Most of the ones I know have their 401ks and Social Security. And that includes some who have been married. I have never known a woman without children to be able to collect alimony, and I have known of at a couple cases where they had to pay child support to the father who had custody–dont’ know the whole story, but it was fair I guess, since they were making more than the fathers at the time.

    So no. Right now I’m putting away more than a third of a modest salary, and my calculator tells me I’ll probably run out 5 years after retirement.

  101. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    You are probably correct that the young movers and shakers of Manhattan and San Francisco love cosmopolitanism and prefer it to the 'provincialism' of their home towns.

    The people who flock to Manhattan and SF are a self-selecting breed though, and they are a minority. A large percentage of them have pre-existing hostility to mainstream America for various reasons. (They are usually gay, jewish, feminist, etc.)

    These people have the right and the ability to carve out a niche for themselves in society...but they are not satisfied with this - they want to wage a full-on culture war. They will not stop until they have crushed all dissent (or they themselves are crushed)

    Not everyone has the ability or *desire* to be part of a cosmopolitan 'elite'...in fact most people don't want anything to do with it. They are perfectly content in their home towns among their own people.

    “Mainstream” American culture is media culture devised and disseminated out of NYC, LA, etc. Most people in flyover country do not have a meaningful or significant alternative culture, nor are they particular interested in developing one. For the most part they enjoy and consume the media culture produced on the coasts, with variation and differences in preferred channels or shows or movies, but still the same general culture.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    Yes, this is painfully true. Montana and Wyoming seem to be the only places that don't care too much what comes out of NY and LA.
  102. I think women are a bit to the left of men on immigration. This is from knowing them and seeing how they talk about the issue. They don’t understand threats to their territory like men do.

    So I think this was an outlier poll.

  103. @Sheila
    Typical arrogant, immigrant comment. Assimilation = speaking English (sort of), wearing jeans, and eating pizza. Oh, and let's not forget marrying White women. I prefer the wisdom of Kipling:

    The Stranger within my gates,
    He may be evil or good,
    But I cannot tell what powers control--
    What reasons sway his mood;
    Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
    Shall repossess his blood.

    The men of my own stock,
    Bitter bad they may be,
    But, at least, they hear the things I hear,
    And see the things I see;
    And whatever I think of them and their likes
    They think of the likes of me.

    This was my father's belief
    And this is also mine:
    Let the corn be all one sheaf--
    And the grapes be all one vine,
    Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
    By bitter bread and wine.

    Assimilation = Ellis Islanders quoting Kipling.

  104. @Jefferson
    Rich people want fewer immigrants according to that chart. So does this mean George Soros, Jeb Bush, Hillary Rodham, and Bill Gates views on wanting mass immigration from the 3rd world into the U.S are in the minority among rich people? Are these people's political views on immigration considered fringe even by the standards of the wealthy 1 percent?

    So does this mean George Soros, Jeb Bush, Hillary Rodham, and Bill Gates views on wanting mass immigration from the 3rd world into the U.S are in the minority among rich people?

    If the antis outnumber the pros, they sure as hell don’t outdonate them!

  105. @Anonymous
    "Mainstream" American culture is media culture devised and disseminated out of NYC, LA, etc. Most people in flyover country do not have a meaningful or significant alternative culture, nor are they particular interested in developing one. For the most part they enjoy and consume the media culture produced on the coasts, with variation and differences in preferred channels or shows or movies, but still the same general culture.

    Yes, this is painfully true. Montana and Wyoming seem to be the only places that don’t care too much what comes out of NY and LA.

  106. @The most deplorable one
    So how about this for a deal?

    We will support gay marriage and the right of any aging former big-shot dipshit to cut off his bits and pretend to be a woman if the elites will just stop pushing for more immigration?

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.

    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they’ve made the roof.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they’ve made the roof.

    As they should. The roof does not have infinite space. That is usually the province of leadership, who is supposed to look out for the greater good. But in our case, the leadership is anxious to see the roof collapse, since they apparently have a vested interest in a business that sells roofing supplies.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they’ve made the roof.

     

    Nothing would help those in the basement more than kicking down that ladder from the outside.

    "Cast down your bucket where you are."
    --Booker T Washington
  107. @Greg Pandatshang
    Why do Americans seem to tell pollsters contradictory things about immigration?
    http://www.people-press.org/2015/06/04/broad-public-support-for-legal-status-for-undocumented-immigrants/

    I mean, I imagine that it's because they sometimes feel guilty about not saying what they think the "right answer" is. Evidently some types of questions or some wordings bring out the sense of peer pressure more than others.

    But I’m interested in hard evidence for this assumption, or alternate hypotheses.

    Polls can be revealing.

    But keep a steely eye on the pollsters.

    Yes Prime Minister:

    http://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA

  108. @foxy
    people with low IQ are more likely to oppose immigration.

    mass immigration to drive down wages was targeted at the lower income levels first. when it’s the turn of the more educated to get the same treatment (which is round about now in the US) it will be too late because by then they will be a minority.

  109. @Anonym
    So basically this phenomenon is being driven by the political donor class. And maybe the left leadership who believe they are importing votes.

    Yep, the economic right and the cultural left colluding against the middle.

  110. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Steve, I read you three times a day, but is not your interpretation of the age data a bit tendentious?An alternate interpretation would be as follows: for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this "natural" part of the US landscape. I'm around a lot of young people and many see foreigners as a source of cosmopolitanism, an antidote to the provincialism of their mid-sized cities. Such thinking is anathema to most readers here, but cannot be discounted among the younger citizens of the new, diverse USA.

    Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They're not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them.
    But I for one doubt that the 18--29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35...

    “Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They’re not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them.”

    They’re not going to maintain their profit margins with them.

    Mass immigration doesn’t just lower the wages bill; lowering the wages bill lowers the demand in the economy creating a vicious spiral:
    – immigration reduces wages* -> employers make more money
    – reduced wages lowers demand -> employers make less money

    so then they want even more immigration to reduce wages even more and

    – immigration reduces wages -> employers make more money
    – reduced wages lowers demand -> employers make less money

    and round and round it goes.

    Mass immigration is one of the two major *causes* of the global economic depression in the West. (The other being the banks’ debt-pushing.)

    (* more accurately the flat-lining of wages combined with increasing housing and transport costs reduces discretionary income)

  111. @Anonymous
    Steve, I read you three times a day, but is not your interpretation of the age data a bit tendentious?An alternate interpretation would be as follows: for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this "natural" part of the US landscape. I'm around a lot of young people and many see foreigners as a source of cosmopolitanism, an antidote to the provincialism of their mid-sized cities. Such thinking is anathema to most readers here, but cannot be discounted among the younger citizens of the new, diverse USA.

    Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They're not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them.
    But I for one doubt that the 18--29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35...

    “for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this “natural” part of the US landscape.”

    What these young people are going to realize, as many of us who are slightly older already have is that they have been living in a narrow slice of US history, and basing your political worldview on this slice is probably a bad idea.

    What currently seems to them a relatively stable and sustainable age will, as they hit their late 30s, start looking more like what the rest of us see, ie; a gradual decline held together by the lingering institutions of the past into a gaping, rootless chaos.

    For me it was “gosh I can remember when white kids actually worked in fast food” that helped me see the objective demographic/institutional drift during my lifetime. For them it might be “gosh I can remember when white people weren’t routinely raped and set on fire”.

  112. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Luke Lea
    How about this for a deal: we will accept amnesty in return for an across-the-board immigration moratorium (pause, time-out) until we can assimilate and integrate the seventy-five million first- and second-generation immigrants who are already here (including the eleven million undocumented), the vast majority of whom are from societies and cultures with no, or very weak, democratic traditions. A biometric ID would also be part of the package, as it is the only realistic way to enforce our immigration laws.

    The advantages of this approach are two-fold: first, it is non-discriminatory; and secondly, it is framed in positive terms, namely, the preservation of our liberal institutions.

    The argument over the economic consequences (lower wages but a bigger GDP) has been a non-starter so far, while proposals to partially limit or reduce immigration immediately gets into the problem of discrimination.

    By phrasing it as a temporary measure, the charge of being against immigration cannot be leveled. If after a decade or two it turns out certain groups show no signs of integrating well into our society, this would be a guide for later modifications of which groups would and would not be admitted in large numbers.

    More generally, it would give us a chance to re-assess the whole issue of mass immigration, just as Europe is starting to do, and it would also allow some much-needed research into the question of whether emigration hurts or helps the development of the poor countries from which most immigrants come.

    The basic strategy should be to seize the high moral ground in terms which right-minded people would find it difficult to disagree with.

    The oligarchs have benefited to the tune of billions from keeping wages flat with mass immigration and they have bought Congress and the media for pennies on the dollar. They don’t need to do a deal.

    They are killing the golden goose in the process (again) but I doubt they will be able to see that.

  113. @Buzz Mohawk
    Since less immigration is what most American citizens of almost every type wants, how come our government is not reducing immigration?

    I know this is a dumb question, but still, how can we not ask it over and over again?

    Congress does what lobbyists pay them to do.

  114. @Jack Hanson
    Realizing Whiskey is hasbara explains a lot.

    That’s always been my suspicion.

  115. I guess they were afraid to ask the corollary questions to restricting immigration – should immigrants already in the US be encouraged to leave by making citizenship harder to get? Should all illegal immigrants be forcibly deported (Operation Wetback 2.0)?

    +1 for that from me on both.

    Immigration restrictionism in the US has always been about preventing the entry of the huddled masses of coolies in South and East Asia and restricting Africans to preserve space in this country for Europeans. Time to use the two oceans to our advantage again. We can’t compete numerically with 3 billion SE Asians.

  116. Regarding the Some College figure, maybe this is a result of the observation on campus of the Universities devoting ungodly ammounts of resources to recruiting foreigners for “diversity” and filling slots with wealthy foreigners paying full freight at the expense of Americans. They also fill their grad schools with foreigners and dump teaching of first and second year students on unintelligible foreigners, causing students to have difficulty with many classes. Then they search for new full professors from around the world now, resulting in even many classes taught by professors who are difficult to understand and connect with.

    When I look at the make up of my department in my school Carnegie Mellon, I see a huge transformation in 25 years from favoring local American men from Western PA, West Virginia, and Ohio, many of them just needing a hand up or a chance to favoring foreigners and not admitting any locals. My own class breakdown was like this 25 years ago:

    30 White Men
    3 White Women
    1 Hispanic Woman
    3 Black Men
    2 Asian Men
    1 White/Filipino

    When you look today, you have to squint to find the 5 white men lost in a sea of foreigners and overweight white women, and there are no black men. And they wonder why I won’t give them money?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    When I look at the make up of my department in my school Carnegie Mellon, I see a huge transformation in 25 years from favoring local American men from Western PA, West Virginia, and Ohio, many of them just needing a hand up or a chance to favoring foreigners and not admitting any locals. My own class breakdown was like this 25 years ago:

    30 White Men
    3 White Women
    1 Hispanic Woman
    3 Black Men
    2 Asian Men
    1 White/Filipino

    When you look today, you have to squint to find the 5 white men lost in a sea of foreigners and overweight white women, and there are no black men. And they wonder why I won’t give them money?
     

    I am *firmly* in the immigration restriction camp, but I am skeptical about your data (of course, it depends on what your department was). Even back 25 years ago, the STEM departments at Carnegie Mellon had a much higher portion of Asians than indicated by your numbers, especially at the graduate level.
  117. It is competition from Eastern European females that preoccupy the domestic ladies.

  118. Wade says:
    @Sheila
    All of this is locking the barn door after the horses have escaped ( or rather after the raiders have gained entry). All immigration - legal and illegal, as well as "refugees" could be stopped cold tomorrow, and Whites will STILL be a minority in what was their own country in a decade at most. Those who believe in the paint-job theory (like the majority of the right-liberal commentariat here) think that some sort of pause will result in all the Indians, Asians, and Africans assimilating just as the Italians, Irish, and Poles did (and to a far lesser extent than most realize) 100 years ago. Those of us who are realists, recognize that diversity + proximity = war, and it's not going to be pretty for either side.

    You’re basically right of course.

    However, there is still hope. We may not be on top at the supreme court, but we still have control over most of our communities. We have to salvage what we can so that we can still keep our way of life. That, I believe, with immigration reduction and other reforms are still possible.

    For example, we have to end affirmative action as we know it, now. Core Americans need to come to utterly dominate all government jobs, elected or otherwise, no apologies. Even if we become a minority in national terms, we can still savage some semblance of the America of old if we make reforms now.

    Sometimes I think what’s happening in places like Baltimore and Ferguson are just wake-up calls to do something.

  119. @Vijay
    "Today the top immigrant sources of origin are, China, India, and Mexico… whose immigrants happen to have some of the lowest rates of assimilation"

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way? Certainly, not in terms of linguistic assimilation -- many of the immigrants themselves are more comfortable in English than in any other language? Rates of intermarriage are really high. Their kids flock to learn Western classical music.

    Obviously, unlike earlier European immigrants, they'll still look different but other than that, I'm not clear on what you're talking about. Since you're Asian yourself, I'm curious why you think this.

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way?

    Read the study: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_53.htm

    In particular, look at the figures 3, 5, and 6.

    Among the major immigrant groups, those with the lowest overall assimilation rates are the immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador, China, and India. In particular Chinese, Indians, and Mexicans have the lowest rates of cultural assimilation while Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Indians have the lowest rates of civic assimilation. And this *despite* the fact that Indians typically arrive with much better English ability than immigrants from other Hispanic or Asian countries.

    And when you look at other data over the past thirty years, it becomes very clear that among the major Asian groups while the Chinese account for the plurality among the immigrants, the number of immigrants from India has increased at the highest rate by far, no doubt spurred by the IT industry. So Indians are the fastest growing immigrant group within the fastest growing ethno-racial category (“Asians”) in the U.S., and they, along with Chinese and Mexicans, have the lowest rates of assimilation, as well as voting overwhelmingly for the Democratic party, usually by a roughly 8-t0-1 margin.

    In my view, this is not a good trend for conservatives, for the country, and for Christianity in the U.S.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Mexicans, obviously, have low rates of assimilation because of the proximity of Mexico. This has real and tangible effects. Flipping around the radio dial in Southern California, for example, there are very few English-language stations left, and one experiences a deep sense of loss. Also, it wasn't so long ago that one could have ready access to the latest movie offerings from Britain, France, Italy or Sweden (The Seventh Seal anyone?) - German movies were, of course, always verboten. Today the American art houses have been mostly reduced to playing indie and Bollywood movies, with the result that despite growing "diversity," America has become more culturally isolated. The latter claim is reinforced by the fact that fewer books are now translated from foreign languages than ever before in the history of this country.

    Re: low rates of assimilation of immigrants from India and China, there is one factor that has not been mentioned: East Indians and Chinese are typically not Christian. Unless you grow up in the tradition of Western Christendom (mainly Catholicism and Protestantism), you'll find it very difficult to understand what made the West tick in the last 1500 years. Even Christian atheists and agnostics are still culturally Christian, and in my experience the Indians and the Chinese have little understanding of that
  120. @Andrew
    Regarding the Some College figure, maybe this is a result of the observation on campus of the Universities devoting ungodly ammounts of resources to recruiting foreigners for "diversity" and filling slots with wealthy foreigners paying full freight at the expense of Americans. They also fill their grad schools with foreigners and dump teaching of first and second year students on unintelligible foreigners, causing students to have difficulty with many classes. Then they search for new full professors from around the world now, resulting in even many classes taught by professors who are difficult to understand and connect with.

    When I look at the make up of my department in my school Carnegie Mellon, I see a huge transformation in 25 years from favoring local American men from Western PA, West Virginia, and Ohio, many of them just needing a hand up or a chance to favoring foreigners and not admitting any locals. My own class breakdown was like this 25 years ago:

    30 White Men
    3 White Women
    1 Hispanic Woman
    3 Black Men
    2 Asian Men
    1 White/Filipino

    When you look today, you have to squint to find the 5 white men lost in a sea of foreigners and overweight white women, and there are no black men. And they wonder why I won't give them money?

    When I look at the make up of my department in my school Carnegie Mellon, I see a huge transformation in 25 years from favoring local American men from Western PA, West Virginia, and Ohio, many of them just needing a hand up or a chance to favoring foreigners and not admitting any locals. My own class breakdown was like this 25 years ago:

    30 White Men
    3 White Women
    1 Hispanic Woman
    3 Black Men
    2 Asian Men
    1 White/Filipino

    When you look today, you have to squint to find the 5 white men lost in a sea of foreigners and overweight white women, and there are no black men. And they wonder why I won’t give them money?

    I am *firmly* in the immigration restriction camp, but I am skeptical about your data (of course, it depends on what your department was). Even back 25 years ago, the STEM departments at Carnegie Mellon had a much higher portion of Asians than indicated by your numbers, especially at the graduate level.

    • Replies: @Andrew
    Twinkie:

    The numbers are for one class of undergrads, not the whole department. The class was typical for those classes in front and behind me when I was there, so in that sense, it was a typical cross section of the entire undergrad portion of the department.

    The graduate section had many foreigners, especially Chinese.
  121. Most Asians mimic SWPL affectations. As is the case with most SWPL’s, Asians tend to see everything through rose-colored glasses from the cocoon of their urban enclaves.

    The GSS is elucidating, but it needs to dig deeper. Whites are a broad span. How about breaking this down by state, occupation and party?

  122. @Anonymous
    Steve, I read you three times a day, but is not your interpretation of the age data a bit tendentious?An alternate interpretation would be as follows: for the entire lifespans of the 18-29 cohort, the US has been a diverse country. Many of these younger people are not repulsed by this "natural" part of the US landscape. I'm around a lot of young people and many see foreigners as a source of cosmopolitanism, an antidote to the provincialism of their mid-sized cities. Such thinking is anathema to most readers here, but cannot be discounted among the younger citizens of the new, diverse USA.

    Now, the foreigners are here because the top capitalists want them here, make no mistake about it. They're not going to be able to maintain their profit margins without them.
    But I for one doubt that the 18--29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35...

    But I for one doubt that the 18–29s are going to go nativist when they hit 35…

    Depends if they have a mortgage and kids and have to start worrying about layoffs and retraining their H-1B replacements then they will get their epiphany.

  123. @Anonymous
    The Asian response is interesting. There is the old adage that would-be immigrants are always in favour of immigration until they become citizens. Once one gains the benefits of citizenship, one would like to prevent these benefits from being diluted by further immigrants. We see this response with Hispanics and Blacks.

    The only reason I can think that Asians are pro-immigration is that they feel more security in numbers. They're the smallest visible minority group. They are also probably the most fragmented immigrant group, with vast differences between East Asians, South Asians, and Pacific Islanders, which means they probably subjectively feel their numbers are even smaller than a census of number of Asians show.

    Asians are well know for bringing in their elderly parents and putting them on welfare. I have a Chinese friend that tells me all the elderly brag to each other at get-togethers on how much they are scamming the system.

    He is so wealthy that his mother can comfortably stay in Hong Kong.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Asians are well know for bringing in their elderly parents and putting them on welfare. I have a Chinese friend that tells me all the elderly brag to each other at get-togethers on how much they are scamming the system.
     
    No doubt that happens. But nationally, Asians have the lowest welfare utilization rate and the highest median family income (which likely means the highest income tax burden per family), so per capita they are probably contributing more into the system than taking out than any other ethno-racial group in the country.

    Oppose mass immigration (from Asia, or elsewhere for that matter) for the right reasons, not for incorrect/faulty reasons that can be rebutted easily.
  124. @Crassus
    “All of the [recent hacking] attacks are traceable to China.” Not all, New York Times. I promise, H1-B holders spy for China from within the U.S.:
    http://www.crass.us/2015/06/the-future-of-chinese-hacking-into-us-companies-and-government-h1-b-visas/
  125. @Greg Pandatshang
    Why do Americans seem to tell pollsters contradictory things about immigration?
    http://www.people-press.org/2015/06/04/broad-public-support-for-legal-status-for-undocumented-immigrants/

    I mean, I imagine that it's because they sometimes feel guilty about not saying what they think the "right answer" is. Evidently some types of questions or some wordings bring out the sense of peer pressure more than others.

    But I’m interested in hard evidence for this assumption, or alternate hypotheses.

    It has a name it is called push-polling. The questions are designed to get the intended response from the people.

    For example:

    Do you xxxxx if yyyyy and zzzzz. Everybody knows yyyyy and zzzzz will never happen but afterwards they count up all the yes votes and say it supports xxxxx even though it doesn’t.

  126. @Twinkie

    When I look at the make up of my department in my school Carnegie Mellon, I see a huge transformation in 25 years from favoring local American men from Western PA, West Virginia, and Ohio, many of them just needing a hand up or a chance to favoring foreigners and not admitting any locals. My own class breakdown was like this 25 years ago:

    30 White Men
    3 White Women
    1 Hispanic Woman
    3 Black Men
    2 Asian Men
    1 White/Filipino

    When you look today, you have to squint to find the 5 white men lost in a sea of foreigners and overweight white women, and there are no black men. And they wonder why I won’t give them money?
     

    I am *firmly* in the immigration restriction camp, but I am skeptical about your data (of course, it depends on what your department was). Even back 25 years ago, the STEM departments at Carnegie Mellon had a much higher portion of Asians than indicated by your numbers, especially at the graduate level.

    Twinkie:

    The numbers are for one class of undergrads, not the whole department. The class was typical for those classes in front and behind me when I was there, so in that sense, it was a typical cross section of the entire undergrad portion of the department.

    The graduate section had many foreigners, especially Chinese.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The numbers are for one class of undergrads, not the whole department.
     
    STEM or not?
  127. @Anonymous
    Do you really think that the elitists give a damn about public opinion?

    Do you really think that [our rulers] give a damn about public opinion?

    Hell, yeah, they do. They perceive that as the most crucial means to achieving their ends, and they are right.

  128. @SFG
    It's not just physical docility--they can be quite aggressive online. It's the general asociality of the personality type; they don't like to lead or follow. They don't form groups well. It's why libertarianism is so attractive to them.

    Myself I remember fantasizing in my younger years about leading a horde of nerds to bully and humiliate athletes, but of course I knew the numbers weren't there on my side.

    The one thing you could do is try to get them to form countermobs against these SJW twitter storms; it's how they exercise at least some of their power and hence an area of vulnerability. Gamergate had some success in this regard, but they didn't follow up. It's one movement I'd have the ability and desire to join, but I have no clue how to do so. (I hate feminism more than other types of liberalism, so...)

    It’s not just physical docility–they can be quite aggressive online. It’s the general asociality of the personality type; they don’t like to lead or follow. They don’t form groups well.

    Also:

    It isn’t just programmers. It is engineering in general. I have been talking to engineers as long as there has been an H-1B program and the answers I get are things like “we do better on our own” or “I can compete with anybody” all thinking they are so special and superior that it is the other guy who will get laid off. They have very little street smarts and are easily conned by management.

    They’re productive and apolitical. As Bowery said,

    The promotion of politics exterminates apolitical genes in the population. The promotion of frontiers gives apolitical genes a route to survival.

  129. @Anonymous
    Immigration is fine as long as you can profit from it or insulate yourself from it

    You're a loser if you can't do either

    Immigration is fine as long as you can profit from it or insulate yourself from it

    You’re a loser if you can’t do either

    You’re a misanthrope or a moron. Take your pick.

  130. @Truth

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.
     
    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they've made the roof.

    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they’ve made the roof.

    As they should. The roof does not have infinite space. That is usually the province of leadership, who is supposed to look out for the greater good. But in our case, the leadership is anxious to see the roof collapse, since they apparently have a vested interest in a business that sells roofing supplies.

    • Replies: @Truth

    As they should. The roof does not have infinite space. That is usually the province of leadership, who is supposed to look out for the greater good. But in our case, the leadership is anxious to see the roof collapse, since they apparently have a vested interest in a business that sells roofing supplies.
     
    With all possible respect, you bought roofing supplies when you got here.
  131. @Ivy
    The educational attainment section may be unpacked to explain the HS/Some college antipathy a little further.

    Educational attainment
    Bachelor’s degree (16.5)
    Master’s degree (16.8)
    Did not complete high school (30.3)
    High school graduate (35.1)
    Some college (36.0)

    If you interpret Some college to mean Corinthian, Phoenix, ITT, DeVry and their ilk, then all you need to do is to visualize the student debtors as crabs trying to crawl out of the bucket. More immigrants would drag them back into the crowded bucket faster.

    By the same token, I see the people with Master’s degrees, and I remember that education, public administration, psychology, social “sciences”, arts and theology are 7 of the top 10 master’s degrees awarded in America. I’m not willing to give them credit for any special intellectual prowess.

    • Replies: @dcite
    Such degrees still indicate a higher than average intelligence and diligence. Some of the fields are demanding, and require commitment. It's not ALL just IQ or STEM aptitude. How many of us do have such aptitude.
  132. @bomag
    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they’ve made the roof.

    As they should. The roof does not have infinite space. That is usually the province of leadership, who is supposed to look out for the greater good. But in our case, the leadership is anxious to see the roof collapse, since they apparently have a vested interest in a business that sells roofing supplies.

    As they should. The roof does not have infinite space. That is usually the province of leadership, who is supposed to look out for the greater good. But in our case, the leadership is anxious to see the roof collapse, since they apparently have a vested interest in a business that sells roofing supplies.

    With all possible respect, you bought roofing supplies when you got here.

  133. @Andrew
    Twinkie:

    The numbers are for one class of undergrads, not the whole department. The class was typical for those classes in front and behind me when I was there, so in that sense, it was a typical cross section of the entire undergrad portion of the department.

    The graduate section had many foreigners, especially Chinese.

    The numbers are for one class of undergrads, not the whole department.

    STEM or not?

  134. @MarkinLA
    Asians are well know for bringing in their elderly parents and putting them on welfare. I have a Chinese friend that tells me all the elderly brag to each other at get-togethers on how much they are scamming the system.

    He is so wealthy that his mother can comfortably stay in Hong Kong.

    Asians are well know for bringing in their elderly parents and putting them on welfare. I have a Chinese friend that tells me all the elderly brag to each other at get-togethers on how much they are scamming the system.

    No doubt that happens. But nationally, Asians have the lowest welfare utilization rate and the highest median family income (which likely means the highest income tax burden per family), so per capita they are probably contributing more into the system than taking out than any other ethno-racial group in the country.

    Oppose mass immigration (from Asia, or elsewhere for that matter) for the right reasons, not for incorrect/faulty reasons that can be rebutted easily.

  135. @Twinkie

    Chinese and Indians have low rates of assimilation? In what way?
     
    Read the study: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_53.htm

    In particular, look at the figures 3, 5, and 6.

    Among the major immigrant groups, those with the lowest overall assimilation rates are the immigrants from Mexico, El Salvador, China, and India. In particular Chinese, Indians, and Mexicans have the lowest rates of cultural assimilation while Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Indians have the lowest rates of civic assimilation. And this *despite* the fact that Indians typically arrive with much better English ability than immigrants from other Hispanic or Asian countries.

    And when you look at other data over the past thirty years, it becomes very clear that among the major Asian groups while the Chinese account for the plurality among the immigrants, the number of immigrants from India has increased at the highest rate by far, no doubt spurred by the IT industry. So Indians are the fastest growing immigrant group within the fastest growing ethno-racial category ("Asians") in the U.S., and they, along with Chinese and Mexicans, have the lowest rates of assimilation, as well as voting overwhelmingly for the Democratic party, usually by a roughly 8-t0-1 margin.

    In my view, this is not a good trend for conservatives, for the country, and for Christianity in the U.S.

    Mexicans, obviously, have low rates of assimilation because of the proximity of Mexico. This has real and tangible effects. Flipping around the radio dial in Southern California, for example, there are very few English-language stations left, and one experiences a deep sense of loss. Also, it wasn’t so long ago that one could have ready access to the latest movie offerings from Britain, France, Italy or Sweden (The Seventh Seal anyone?) – German movies were, of course, always verboten. Today the American art houses have been mostly reduced to playing indie and Bollywood movies, with the result that despite growing “diversity,” America has become more culturally isolated. The latter claim is reinforced by the fact that fewer books are now translated from foreign languages than ever before in the history of this country.

    Re: low rates of assimilation of immigrants from India and China, there is one factor that has not been mentioned: East Indians and Chinese are typically not Christian. Unless you grow up in the tradition of Western Christendom (mainly Catholicism and Protestantism), you’ll find it very difficult to understand what made the West tick in the last 1500 years. Even Christian atheists and agnostics are still culturally Christian, and in my experience the Indians and the Chinese have little understanding of that

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Interestingly, my students, and granted, it's a small sample, differentiate sharply between the cultures of East Asia and South Asia. They are very interested in East Asian cultures, especially Japan and Korea (and less China), love to listen to J-POP and K-POP (particularly the girls since American pop music no longer satisfies their desire for romance) but in contrast show little interest in the cultures of India, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Perhaps they view the latter as tropical cultures, and therefore alien to the American experience, unlike the East Asian cultures that thrived in a similar climate to ours
    , @Twinkie

    Mexicans, obviously, have low rates of assimilation because of the proximity of Mexico.
     
    Yes, this is very true, but Hispanics from non-contiguous countries also have low assimilation rates (e.g. Salvadorans).

    Re: low rates of assimilation of immigrants from India and China, there is one factor that has not been mentioned: East Indians and Chinese are typically not Christian.
     
    I brought this up in several threads.

    Let me re-post:

    Koreans in America: total population 1.7 million; 71% Christians (61% Protestant, 10% Catholic).
    Filipinos: 3.4-4.5 million (I assume full-partial ancestry); 86% Christians (21% Protestant, 65% Catholic).
    Chinese: 3.8 million; 30% Christians (22% Protestant, 8% Catholic).
    Indians: 3.1-3.14 million (full-partial); 18% Christians (11% Protestant, 5% Catholic, 3% other).
    Japanese: 0.76-1.3 million (full-partial); 37% Christians (33% Protestant, 4% Catholic).
    Vietnamese: 1.74 million; 36% Christians (6% Protestant; 30% Catholic).
     
    As you can see, Chinese and Indians in America are the least Christian of the major Asian ethnicities.
  136. @Anon 2
    Mexicans, obviously, have low rates of assimilation because of the proximity of Mexico. This has real and tangible effects. Flipping around the radio dial in Southern California, for example, there are very few English-language stations left, and one experiences a deep sense of loss. Also, it wasn't so long ago that one could have ready access to the latest movie offerings from Britain, France, Italy or Sweden (The Seventh Seal anyone?) - German movies were, of course, always verboten. Today the American art houses have been mostly reduced to playing indie and Bollywood movies, with the result that despite growing "diversity," America has become more culturally isolated. The latter claim is reinforced by the fact that fewer books are now translated from foreign languages than ever before in the history of this country.

    Re: low rates of assimilation of immigrants from India and China, there is one factor that has not been mentioned: East Indians and Chinese are typically not Christian. Unless you grow up in the tradition of Western Christendom (mainly Catholicism and Protestantism), you'll find it very difficult to understand what made the West tick in the last 1500 years. Even Christian atheists and agnostics are still culturally Christian, and in my experience the Indians and the Chinese have little understanding of that

    Interestingly, my students, and granted, it’s a small sample, differentiate sharply between the cultures of East Asia and South Asia. They are very interested in East Asian cultures, especially Japan and Korea (and less China), love to listen to J-POP and K-POP (particularly the girls since American pop music no longer satisfies their desire for romance) but in contrast show little interest in the cultures of India, Pakistan or Bangladesh. Perhaps they view the latter as tropical cultures, and therefore alien to the American experience, unlike the East Asian cultures that thrived in a similar climate to ours

  137. @Anon 2
    Mexicans, obviously, have low rates of assimilation because of the proximity of Mexico. This has real and tangible effects. Flipping around the radio dial in Southern California, for example, there are very few English-language stations left, and one experiences a deep sense of loss. Also, it wasn't so long ago that one could have ready access to the latest movie offerings from Britain, France, Italy or Sweden (The Seventh Seal anyone?) - German movies were, of course, always verboten. Today the American art houses have been mostly reduced to playing indie and Bollywood movies, with the result that despite growing "diversity," America has become more culturally isolated. The latter claim is reinforced by the fact that fewer books are now translated from foreign languages than ever before in the history of this country.

    Re: low rates of assimilation of immigrants from India and China, there is one factor that has not been mentioned: East Indians and Chinese are typically not Christian. Unless you grow up in the tradition of Western Christendom (mainly Catholicism and Protestantism), you'll find it very difficult to understand what made the West tick in the last 1500 years. Even Christian atheists and agnostics are still culturally Christian, and in my experience the Indians and the Chinese have little understanding of that

    Mexicans, obviously, have low rates of assimilation because of the proximity of Mexico.

    Yes, this is very true, but Hispanics from non-contiguous countries also have low assimilation rates (e.g. Salvadorans).

    Re: low rates of assimilation of immigrants from India and China, there is one factor that has not been mentioned: East Indians and Chinese are typically not Christian.

    I brought this up in several threads.

    Let me re-post:

    Koreans in America: total population 1.7 million; 71% Christians (61% Protestant, 10% Catholic).
    Filipinos: 3.4-4.5 million (I assume full-partial ancestry); 86% Christians (21% Protestant, 65% Catholic).
    Chinese: 3.8 million; 30% Christians (22% Protestant, 8% Catholic).
    Indians: 3.1-3.14 million (full-partial); 18% Christians (11% Protestant, 5% Catholic, 3% other).
    Japanese: 0.76-1.3 million (full-partial); 37% Christians (33% Protestant, 4% Catholic).
    Vietnamese: 1.74 million; 36% Christians (6% Protestant; 30% Catholic).

    As you can see, Chinese and Indians in America are the least Christian of the major Asian ethnicities.

  138. Koreans in America: total population 1.7 million; 71% Christians (61% Protestant, 10% Catholic).

    That is truly disappointing.

  139. @Curtis
    My main question is why are women particularly against immigration. They see immigrants as rivals in the job place? Lots of women work in retail, and I don't see immigrants working there.

    Immigrants don’t go for radical feminism, that’s why.

  140. @Truth

    BTW, I am an immigrant and I think it should be drastically slowed. About 10 immigrants a year would be fine with me.
     
    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they've made the roof.

    Everybody wants to kick that ladder down once they’ve made the roof.

    Nothing would help those in the basement more than kicking down that ladder from the outside.

    “Cast down your bucket where you are.”
    –Booker T Washington

  141. @Brutusale
    By the same token, I see the people with Master's degrees, and I remember that education, public administration, psychology, social "sciences", arts and theology are 7 of the top 10 master's degrees awarded in America. I'm not willing to give them credit for any special intellectual prowess.

    Such degrees still indicate a higher than average intelligence and diligence. Some of the fields are demanding, and require commitment. It’s not ALL just IQ or STEM aptitude. How many of us do have such aptitude.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    How many of us do have such aptitude? Well, the government constantly tells us that there are literally millions of blacks and Hispanics with just such talent being underserved because of evil white people keeping them down. Who's telling the truth?

    Hey, pursue whichever degree makes you happy. Just don't ask society to forgive the student loans you stupidly took to pursue a degree without much value, and don't ask for salaries far out of line with what the degree's value actually is.
  142. @HA
    Is there a breakdown by, say, which countries we need more or less immigration from? Because I'm guessing even many of the Asians that want more immigration aren't necessarily indifferent regarding the optimal geographical distribution of any added influx.

    In the victimism sweepstakes, the old nation of origin restrictions are pretty much all Asians have going, so they tend to be emphasized in official Asian American political culture.

  143. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Evil World of Disny:

    “Disney Blacklisted Displaced American Workers”, Rachel Stoltzfoos, The Daily Caller:

    “…The American tech workers Disney laid off in January after forcing them to train their foreign replacements were put on a “black list” that disqualified them from hire by any contractor that works with Disney, emails obtained by The Daily Caller News Foundation between one of the laid off workers and a recruiting firm show.

    …had received the highest possible rating on his performance review, so he thought he would be a top candidate for the job.

    …But in an email sent last week and obtained by TheDCNF, the recruiting firm informed him that he is out of the running because he is on a black list, since he is one of the hundreds of tech workers Disney displaced…

    …the workers who replaced him and his American coworkers were brought into the country by the contracting firm Disney hired on temporary work visas known as H-1bs. …

    …a number of recent reports show companies — Southern California Edison, Fossil Group and now Disney — apparently abusing the system to displace American workers.”

    Apparently abusing the system? Sheesh, some people are always the last to get the word, I guess.

    “The Obama administration recently refused an earlier request from a bipartisan group of senators to investigate alleged H-1b visa program abuses…”

    I remember a time when the US government didn’t act like the overriding role of government was to destroy the country…. well, make that at least destroy the people living in the country. But these people clearly have much more important things on their minds. Why, I hear there’s a real KKK ghost haunting Washington, DC. They must all be out looking for it. It’s kind of swampy and dismal there. All’s not well in Denmark, mark me, to mix ghost references.

  144. “Immigration is fine as long as you can profit from it or insulate yourself from it

    You’re a loser if you can’t do either”

    That’s a great theory, right up until you get killed in The Troubles.

  145. @dcite
    Such degrees still indicate a higher than average intelligence and diligence. Some of the fields are demanding, and require commitment. It's not ALL just IQ or STEM aptitude. How many of us do have such aptitude.

    How many of us do have such aptitude? Well, the government constantly tells us that there are literally millions of blacks and Hispanics with just such talent being underserved because of evil white people keeping them down. Who’s telling the truth?

    Hey, pursue whichever degree makes you happy. Just don’t ask society to forgive the student loans you stupidly took to pursue a degree without much value, and don’t ask for salaries far out of line with what the degree’s value actually is.

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