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Google CEO: "I Don't Regret" Firing James Damore
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From The Verge:

Google CEO Sundar Pichai says he does not regret firing James Damore

“It was the right decision,” says YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki

By Nick [email protected] Jan 19, 2018, 5:20pm EST

Google CEO Sundar Pichai responded today to the firing of employee James Damore over his controversial memo on workplace diversity, stating that while he does not regret the decision, he regrets that people misunderstood it as a politically motivated event. Speaking in a live conversation with journalist and Recode co-founder Kara Swisher, MSNBC host Ari Melber, and YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki in San Francisco, Pichai said that the decision to fire Damore was about ensuring women at Google felt like the company was committed to creating a welcoming environment.

“I regret that people misunderstand that we may have made this for a political belief one way or another,” Pichai said. “It’s important for the women at Google, and all the people at Google, that we want to make an inclusive environment.” When pressed by Swisher on the issue of regret, Pichai stated more definitively, “I don’t regret it.” Wojcicki, who has spoken publicly about how Damore’s memo affected her personally, followed up with, “I think it was the right decision.”

Pichai added, “And Susan’s sister Anne is married to Sergey, so Susan’s the boss. I just work here,” and giggled nervously. But when he looked to Ms. Wojcicki for confirmation, she just stared blankly back at him. After an uncomfortable pause, Pichai muttered, “Oh my God, she isn’t Mrs. Brin anymore, is she? … What have I done?”

Actually, that last paragraph didn’t happen. Sundar Pichai didn’t get where he is by not knowing who is not sleeping with whom.

 
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  1. “Alphabet Soup” maybe is code word for “shag fest”?

    Given the region I’m surprised more tech CEOs have not caught HIV.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Come on. HIV is a gay problem, and tech magnates aren't all gay/bi.
    , @Rod1963
    Speaking of shag fest, here is a article about the sex orgies of the Silicon Valley elite by Vanity Fair.,

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/brotopia-silicon-valley-secretive-orgiastic-inner-sanctum

    Just when you think those ADD freaks, men-boy things, soy-boys couldn't get any freakier, they just have to prove us wrong.
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  2. It’s important for the women at Google, and all the people at Google, that we want to make an inclusive environment.”

    Orwellian doublespeak at its finest. Promote inclusiveness by squashing heterodox viewpoints.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jake
    That is all Liberalism. The differences are matters of specific areas and degrees, not of kind.
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  3. Is Damore gonna win big or what? If so, what changes, if any, could a big Damore victory and payment from Goolag bring? I’ve partially assumed he’ll win. Long term black pilled on the WQ and RQ too. Tech titans have already won, white man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    nah no rule of law anymore
    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    However "Big" Damore might win, it will still be parking change in Google's grand scheme of things-- hence the arrogance of this streetshitter.
    , @TomSchmidt
    Not really. One can use another search engine and avoiding feeding advertising revenue to Google. Google seized control of searching because it was better, no question about it. I've used Bing since the Damore memo, but I still use Google with no tracking on Brave when Bing doesn't find what I need.

    The interesting thing is that, by censoring politically incorrect searches, Google makes itself less useful than fully open search engines. That will drive any number of people at the margin to use a different engine. When the alt-right searchers are all using another engine, you'll have 25-30% of the US market unavailable to people advertising on Google. That will move the locus of power away from Google, and they do not make money on any other product, not enough to pay the salaries of an army of SJWs.
    , @anonymouslee
    zero chance because of location and the general biases of our judiciary on this topic (the law as written* is not necessarily a guide for a particular kind of case on a particular kind of law in a particular court)

    *liberals liked taking power away from the dead cis-hetero white men who wrote the Constitution, of course, but even "conservative" Richard Posner made the somewhat novel move f explicitly articulating that even his *theory* of jurisprudence is, "I do whatever the hell I want to settle the case in front of me because I'm the judge."

    This was a cute bit of gordian knot-cutting since textualists or originalists like Scalia** would fairly often humiliate liberals in debates about their offered theoretical justifications (which did NOT suggest they were legalizing abortion just because they felt like it)

    **even my liberal classmates appreciated a good Scalia iceburn, and he very thoughtfully included in his work many hilariously devastating dissents and opinions with their concomitant sassy asides, rejoinders, footnotes, etc. for the bored & miserable law student.
    , @Roderick Spode

    Is Damore gonna win big or what?
     
    If so, how high do you think he'll have to appeal it before he does?
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  4. Men don’t seem to be in need of inclusion in Googleworld.

    What’s that sound, Mr Damore?

    Ker- ching!

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoWeltschmerz
    Google will never be all women and that's not the goal for reasons that Sergey and Larry well understand. It's not that they don't want men, it's that Google wants the right kind of men who share the company's politics/opinions or are at least willing to keep their mouth's shut.

    You may be prematurely ker-chinging. The fact that the CEO is commenting on pending litigation tells you something. Either they don't think they will lose (a real possibility) or they are more intent on sending current and future employees a message while simultaneously virtue signalling. If you look at Google's financials you'll see that there's nothing Damore could realistically win that would in any way harm Google's pocketbook. The media supports them and they are a financial behemoth, so they will come through this unbowed. If Damore doesn't settle and he were to win his case and Google doesn't appeal or they lose on appeal, Silicon Valley might take some notice but they are clever enough to re-adjust their policies and/or procedures to prevent this situation from occurring in the future without actually changing the politics and environment of the company.

    Mr. Damore seems like a smart guy who exhibited some courage in a hostile environment. I have mixed emotions about the government telling companies who they can hire and fire, but that's the world we live in, so I'd like to see James Damore get compensated for his firing as the chances of him gaining work within his chosen field are not good. Nevertheless, it's a mistake to think this is going to be a watershed case.
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  5. Read More
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  6. This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .

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    • Replies: @WorkingClass

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .
     
    I remember that also. It's called fired without cause and is forbidden in contracts between employers and organized employees. The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd. The zombies now referred to as the left have abandoned the Enlightenment. That's how they are able to assert that exclusiveness is inclusiveness, wrong is right and right is left.

    I wouldn't work for Susan (Queen of rent seekers) Wojcicki for any amount of money.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say ."

    Ah yes, but that was when the left weren't in charge.
    , @Anonymous

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .
     
    That was way, way back when they weren't in power. The only people ever in favor of free speech are those who are not in power. Or those (like our Founding Fathers) who remember it because it was only yesterday.

    The people in power now have been in power for decades. They don't remember being on the outside. Paradoxically enough, an integral part of their mythology is being on the outside always and everywhere. This is how they can justify anything and everything they do to the rest of us.

    I'm frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It's almost as if you haven't been paying attention to this very blog.

    , @Jack D
    The Left was never against McCarthyism. They were against being the TARGETS of McCarthyism. Remember that the Left is 100% who-whom. There are no 1st principles - the answer to any question depends on who is the "who" and who is the "whom".

    Legally this is problematic because Damore is going to try to use the whole structure of "civil rights" and "anti-discrimination" that the Left has built in the last 50 years to hoist them on their own petard.
    , @AnotherDad

    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.
     
    Exactly this.

    They had to craft Susan's hissy fit into some sort of plausible non-political but politically palatable firing offense. There is little doubt that this line has been carefully vetted by their lawyers as the best they can do.

    One big problem they have is ... Susan. Her statements reveal political/personal-resentment motives even in her cooked up dinner table conversations with her kids. And she's bragged about being the driver who pushed the meeting to a decision to can Damore.
    , @WorkingClass
    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .

    I remember that also. It’s called fired without cause and is forbidden in contracts between employers and organized employees. The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd. The zombies now referred to as the left have abandoned the Enlightenment. That’s how they are able to assert that exclusiveness is inclusiveness, wrong is right and right is left.

    I wouldn’t work for Susan (Queen of rent seekers) Wojcicki for any amount of money.
    , @Alden
    Damore's letter does not fit any definition of political activities or affiliations. There is nothing in CA Labor Law 1102 about political beliefs.
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  7. These people just make me sick in a way I’m having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy “The Schnoz” Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it’s hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I’m confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @rogue-one
    >How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes

    Ruling classes have always been protected from criticism. This is why they are the ruling classes. Do you really think the liberal orthodoxy could survive 5 minutes of reasoned debate? (Watch the recent Peterson video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54) But by stifling debate and punishing dissenters, the ruling classes and their ideology are allowed to thrive.

    Kiri-Sute gone allowed Samurais to cut any commoner who insulted their honor. Lèse-majesté punished any perceived insult against the king and his family.

    In today's victimhood hierarchy, straight, white, men are at the bottom and and Kiri-Sute against them by those higher in victimhood totem pole is permissible.
    , @The Alarmist
    You raise an interesting point, in that Indian and other non-American CEOs might be teaming up with with women to marginalise WEMs, who would be the traditional talent pool from which C-Suite ranks are filled.
    , @sabril
    I agree. A lot of society's problems can be traced to the facts that (1) women are basically children; and (2) men are thirsty for female approval.
    , @Seth Largo
    as they run their companies into the ground

    It is starting to seem likely that Sister Anne has not been doing a good job with 23andMe. Their results tend not to jive with other companies' results, which do confirm one another. Who you gonna believe about your ancestry, the woman who rented a garage to the Google guys, or a geneticist?

    https://twitter.com/spwells/status/954186443257204736
    , @Rod1963
    These are all symptoms of a industry that has seen better days. Innovation has basically ceased and been replaced by a form of rent-seeking and mass manipulation for data mining purposes.

    IOW this is not Silicon Valley that spawned SGI, Sun, HP, that made real products.
    , @40 Acres and A Kardashian

    I’m confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.
     
    I'm be willing to bet that the parents of a lot of South African farmers used to be pretty confident that future generations would laugh at the idea of a black run South Africa.
    , @AnotherDad

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground.
     
    This is the continuing mystery. The "strong, independent woman" we were promised back in say 1970, has yet to show up.

    Instead, we apparently need Victorian sexual mores--for men only--to protect the "virtue" of drunken sluts, who hookup with drunken cads and don't feel good about it in the morning (or anytime in the next few months, if he doesn't call).

    And we must protect the feelings of these "strong independent" women in tech, from any suggestion that maybe just maybe they aren't surrounded by a supportive sisterhood, their "sisters" are just way less interested in working on things, than working with people.

    We're approaching 50 years of "liberation" ... and these "strong independent women" keep not showing up.

    , @cynthia curran
    Well, part of its that the right's tech people like Peter Theil and Palmer Luckey could start dozens of tech starts but they don't. Theil has recently made billions from bitcoin. Luckey spent his money on a non tech business in Huntington Beach. Luckey founded Oculus Rift, the VR headset company and sold it to Facebook. He is still worth millions and could start some tech start ups for conservatives but he doesn't.
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  8. I kinda thought the argument would be that the firing couldn’t be political because they didn’t catch Damore carrying a Republican Party card, or something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    I'm sure Google will argue that Damore's memo wasn't political per se.
    , @Alden
    You are right in that the firing is not political because no political parties, candidates, elections or referendums were involved, just his personal opinion about something that is not defined as political by Ca Labor Law code 1102.
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  9. Lol @ that last paragraph.

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  10. Pichai added, “And Susan’s sister Anne is married to Sergey, so Susan’s the boss. I just work here,” and giggled nervously. But when he looked to Ms. Wojcicki for confirmation, she just stared blankly back at him. After an uncomfortable pause, Pichai muttered, “Oh my God, she isn’t Mrs. Brin anymore, is she? … What have I done?”

    I wonder what the Wojcicki’s think of female Chews, especially those adventurous Chews who like to set an example to other women by rapidly shimmying up the corporate totem pole. Do they get extra intersectional Diversity Pokemon points? Enquiring minds want to know!

    Read More
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  11. Well, let’s see: what sort of judges sit on the California bench? Liberal? Conservative? Or, It’s Not Over Until The “That’s Not Who We Are” Lose?

    Read More
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  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I really hope that Damore doesn’t settle. Google can offer boatloads of money to make this go away. I want it to continue through disovery and depositions. Given that the law firm is probably financing the case, and given the political aspirations of the firm’s main partner, they might have some motive and power to pressure Damore to take it all the way. Having a second plaintiff makes that harder.

    The tactic of omitting all federal claims and relying on state law was pure genius, so it gives me hope that the lawyers are smarter than the original complaint makes them seem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    If the political correctness crowd had that kind of political intelligence and common sense, they wouldn't have gotten into this mess in the first place. What makes me laugh is how unnecessary this all was.

    You just fire Damore, what can he do? Gripe over a beer with his buddies. It isn't as though people will care. You'll have made the point clear within the company-you decisively get what you want. But, for some reason, getting what they wanted simply wasn't enough. They needed to sack Carthage and sow the land with salt, out of what can only be interpreted as ideologically fueled animus. So, you attempt to humiliate him and destroy any chance of him getting employment in tech ever again? He's left with little incentive not to sue, he's all of a sudden got plenty of conservative, increasingly anti-Silicon Valley lawyers who'd be happy to help him, and the result is a media spectacle in which Google has little chance of pulling off a long-term strategic victory, regardless of what happens tactically. They have massively overestimated their standing with the American public: the warning signs should have been there with Trump's election, but they didn't get the message.

    (One interesting dynamic in the Republican Party: as the face of big business increasingly becomes the tech titans, one wonders how much pro-oligarchic/monopoly sentiments will have much of a future among right-wing intellectuals.)

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  13. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    >How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes

    Ruling classes have always been protected from criticism. This is why they are the ruling classes. Do you really think the liberal orthodoxy could survive 5 minutes of reasoned debate? (Watch the recent Peterson video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54) But by stifling debate and punishing dissenters, the ruling classes and their ideology are allowed to thrive.

    Kiri-Sute gone allowed Samurais to cut any commoner who insulted their honor. Lèse-majesté punished any perceived insult against the king and his family.

    In today’s victimhood hierarchy, straight, white, men are at the bottom and and Kiri-Sute against them by those higher in victimhood totem pole is permissible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Perspective
    That was a great discussion and presentation of the facts by Jordan Peterson. The best part was the "gotcha" moment @ 23:02, when the gatekeeper host admitted defeat on his point about "hate" speech.

    If the Conservative party ever gets back in to power in Canada, they would be amiss not to use Jordan Peterson as a consultant to reform the university system.
    , @Frau Katze
    The Jordan Peterson-Cathy Newman video is highly recommended.

    In short, she was demolished (the subject: the “female wage gap.”)

    It hasn’t been treated by the US media much yet since involved a Canadian (Peterson) and an English TV interviewer (Newman).

    You need to see it to believe how badly she lost.

    But in the aftermath we’re being told that she has received death threats (don’t these people realize they only make their side look worse?)

    An indeed the English media is not writing about the interview at all; the big story for them are these death threats.

    Thanks, you idiots.
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  14. Before anyone gets too excited about this Damore lawsuit

    Just recall for a minute how often on some blog etc., one reads about a lawsuit being filed, interesting case, much evidence etc. … and then one never hears about it again after the initial burst of alt-media

    Almost zero happens in the US legal system unless the Powers That Be want it to happen

    There is indeed a general agenda of extracting legal fees – including from various ‘settlements’ – as a kind of ‘tax’ upon companies, to help support the lawyer mafia that keeps the proles in the USA under control

    But a case like this, against an insider CIA company like Google – which is also the key propaganda tool hiding the info on USA judge bribery and lawyer corruption, which every US judge well understands -

    Is not going anywhere unless there is an oligarch ‘ok’ behind the scenes

    For those interested in digging deep on Google’s CIA work, consider Google’s CIA mercenary and regime change division, Jigsaw, formerly Google Ideas – Google Idea Groups, run by Jared Cohen … actively on the ground in places like Syria

    And accused by Veterans Today of actively being involved in smuggling poison gas into Syria from Turkey, that was used to murder children in killings falsely attributed to Assad … Gordon Duff of Veterans Today pulls no punches in naming Google Inc – Alphabet as a gang of mass child murderers

    Read More
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  15. @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .

    I remember that also. It’s called fired without cause and is forbidden in contracts between employers and organized employees. The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd. The zombies now referred to as the left have abandoned the Enlightenment. That’s how they are able to assert that exclusiveness is inclusiveness, wrong is right and right is left.

    I wouldn’t work for Susan (Queen of rent seekers) Wojcicki for any amount of money.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    "The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd."

    At least 50 years behind the times.
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  16. @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    “I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .”

    Ah yes, but that was when the left weren’t in charge.

    Read More
    • Agree: Hibernian
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  17. “I regret that people misunderstand that we may have made this for a political belief one way or another,” Pichai said.

    See, that kind of “regretting” shows either a poor command of English (very likely) or it’s more Orwelllian doublespeak (additionally likely). One cannot regret something done by someone else. Mr. Pichai didn’t do the misunderstanding, as he calls it, so he can’t regret that.

    “It’s too bad that people misunderstand that …” would be a lot more honest, although most likely still a bunch of bull, as we KNOW this was done for political reasons. We don’t misunderstand anything, so you can’t do our regretting for us, Mr. Pichai, as there was no mistake to begin with.

    I regret wasting my time reading anything this PC asshole has to say – now THAT is proper use of English, btichez!

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    • Agree: eah, Autochthon, Beckow
    • Replies: @bomag

    he regrets that people misunderstood it as a politically motivated event.
     
    Leaders of large-ish groups are used to telling the underlings what to think.

    I'm surprised he's mouthing off, with a lawsuit pending and all. Usually they clam up and let the process obfuscate the issue; just announce that services were no longer required. To admit he was fired for writing the memo would usually be rather damning, but in today's climate they must feel compelled to push the envelope towards their goal of enforcing goodthink.
    , @David
    According to Webster's 2nd, "To remember with sorrow or grief... To have dissatisfaction, misgivings, or distress of mind concerning." It specifies nothing about only regretting one's own actions or failures and it gives as an example of usage "regret the election of" someone. There's also nothing about the etymology, "to weep," that would support your view.
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  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .

    That was way, way back when they weren’t in power. The only people ever in favor of free speech are those who are not in power. Or those (like our Founding Fathers) who remember it because it was only yesterday.

    The people in power now have been in power for decades. They don’t remember being on the outside. Paradoxically enough, an integral part of their mythology is being on the outside always and everywhere. This is how they can justify anything and everything they do to the rest of us.

    I’m frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It’s almost as if you haven’t been paying attention to this very blog.

    Read More
    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Alden
    You are right. So many conservatives have hoped for so long that there would be one major law suit like Brown or Roe that would drastically change things

    But it won’t happen with our present judiciary and more important the colleges and law schools that produce them and the White hating politicians who appoint them
    , @res

    I’m frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It’s almost as if you haven’t been paying attention to this very blog.
     
    The only way I say Damore prevailing is if Google decides the publicity black eye of making public information gained in discovery (trial, etc.) outweighs the cost of settling.

    The main thing that makes me optimistic in this case is that a lawyer was willing to take it on contingency. Though perhaps the publicity gained is enough of a benefit to offset the costs of a loss.
    , @Frau Katze
    I read or heard a vid claiming that the big event separating “now” from “then” was the fall of Communism.

    The left needed a Utopian project to fill the vacuum. So identity politics became the new thing.

    Assume a decade or so to get every leftist on the board, and the timing fits.

    Another weird aspect of Communism in Eastern Europe is that, despite the Communism they suffered (mostly not as bad as the USSR or China, with Romania likely the worst), the citizens of those countries seem more normal than us.

    We were undoubtedly better off financially. But a creepy new subculture started around 1960 or so.

    This subculture gradually wormed its way into everything: media, education and politics. Their victory seemed unstoppable until the election of Trump. Even outside the US, leftists were in panic over Trump.

    Where we go from here, I don’t know.
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  19. … he regrets that people misunderstood it as a politically motivated event.

    Gosh, yes, sorry for misunderstanding it — our bad.

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    • LOL: res
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  20. @Escher

    It’s important for the women at Google, and all the people at Google, that we want to make an inclusive environment.”
     
    Orwellian doublespeak at its finest. Promote inclusiveness by squashing heterodox viewpoints.

    That is all Liberalism. The differences are matters of specific areas and degrees, not of kind.

    Read More
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  21. @Achmed E. Newman

    “I regret that people misunderstand that we may have made this for a political belief one way or another,” Pichai said.
     
    See, that kind of "regretting" shows either a poor command of English (very likely) or it's more Orwelllian doublespeak (additionally likely). One cannot regret something done by someone else. Mr. Pichai didn't do the misunderstanding, as he calls it, so he can't regret that.

    "It's too bad that people misunderstand that ..." would be a lot more honest, although most likely still a bunch of bull, as we KNOW this was done for political reasons. We don't misunderstand anything, so you can't do our regretting for us, Mr. Pichai, as there was no mistake to begin with.

    I regret wasting my time reading anything this PC asshole has to say - now THAT is proper use of English, btichez!

    he regrets that people misunderstood it as a politically motivated event.

    Leaders of large-ish groups are used to telling the underlings what to think.

    I’m surprised he’s mouthing off, with a lawsuit pending and all. Usually they clam up and let the process obfuscate the issue; just announce that services were no longer required. To admit he was fired for writing the memo would usually be rather damning, but in today’s climate they must feel compelled to push the envelope towards their goal of enforcing goodthink.

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  22. Wojcicki, who has spoken publicly about how Damore’s memo affected her personally, followed up with, “I think it was the right decision.”

    And now, this b…, er, Ms. Wojcicki is ruining Youtube:

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/01/youtube-unveils-new-monetisation-rules-killing-ad-revenue-for-small-creators/

    https://www.amren.com/commentary/2017/08/big-brothers-first-victim-youtube-censorship-race-intelligence/

    Do women tend to love control and censorship of ideas more than men?
    It would seem so, sometimes.

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  23. The feminist Daily Mail is in a hysterical rage that a man dared to argue with a woman

    https://imgur.com/a/LWW0O

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  24. In related news, Salem Village Minister Samuel Parris that he does not regret having hung the witch Bridget Bishop because getting rid of witches is the right thing to do.

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  25. In the meantime OT:

    The biggest mystery in mathematics: Shinichi Mochizuki and the impenetrable proof

    https://www.nature.com/news/the-biggest-mystery-in-mathematics-shinichi-mochizuki-and-the-impenetrable-proof-1.18509

    Three years on, Mochizuki’s proof remains in mathematical limbo — neither debunked nor accepted by the wider community. Mochizuki has estimated that it would take a maths graduate student about 10 years to be able to understand his work, and Fesenko believes that it would take even an expert in arithmetic geometry some 500 hours. So far, only four mathematicians say that they have been able to read the entire proof.

    Inter-universal Teichmüller theory

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-universal_Teichmüller_theory

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    • Replies: @bomag
    Shin M. seems a little too coy here. I'd think he would be a little more interested in explaining the thing.

    Lieven Le Bruyn found it to be highly self referential, and suggested that it might be a big middle finger to mathematics.
    , @Anonymous
    There was a good discussion of the state to this Thing here:

    http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=9871
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  26. Feelings are still so important with these people. More important than what happened is how they feel about what happened. I hope they lose their shirts. Figuratively. Literally would be ugly.

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  27. I regret that the US let Sundar Pichai immigrate to this country. Maybe the DOJ can find a way to revoke this Indian’s citizenship and send him back to Mumbai in zip cuffs.

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  28. “Inclusiveness” = discrimination and hateful rhetoric towards white males combined with a complete prohibition on any speech that might offend anyone from a protected class in any way

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  29. Looking at the comments on the Verge article relitigating the Damore firing for the umpteenth time, I notice, not for the first time, that anti-Damore opinions almost immediately take an insulting and vulgar form.

    I suppose it’s like « punch a Nazi »: there are some issues where it’s ok to cast away any pretense of civilized discussion because 1) the wrong side of the issue is so despicable and threatening to innocent people, and 2) the correct side of the issue is so obvious and widely agreed-upon that it’s fine to take off the gloves. One side is more powerful and feels free to use that power.

    I despair a bit that there is a large number of topics where polite and rational discussion is hard to find.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I despair a bit that there is a large number of topics where polite and rational discussion is hard to find.
     
    Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.
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  30. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    1) Damore and the plaintiffs have set up a page to fund legal expenses. https://www.fundedjustice.com/d1JmT3. While their lawyers are likely taking this on contingency, it is a powerful talking point to say a “significant portion of legal expenses were funded by small donations from individuals.” It pre-emptively deflates some narratives that the Left and Media will attempt.

    2) Google is scared of discovery. The internal messages released in the complaint are damning. It is hard to think the private emails will be less so. A major wild card is third class of plaintiffs, the unnamed group that alleges discrimination in hiring. There are likely many cases where a white male with several years experience is rejected as a poor fit, while NAM / woman with marginal experience is hired.

    3) Shocking that no one is talking about the blacklisting aspect of this case. If another employer were checking references, it would be illegal for a Google representative to mention any of this in a background check. But somehow it is excusable for Google execs — sitting atop the most powerful search company — to comment publically on this, effectively blacklisting Damore from his industry. Regardless of the political leanings of Damore, there is an employee rights aspect that has been ignored by the media, who has chosen to cheer for Goliath, uh I mean, Google.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    It's illegal in California to check for felony records, but I think that's about all with the exception of credit ratings for people who handle money.
    , @European-American
    > Damore and the plaintiffs have set up a page to fund legal expenses.
    > https://www.fundedjustice.com/d1JmT3

    Contributed. Thanks for the link.
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  31. Time to make Google live up to its own clearly avowed principles and beliefs. Demand that 50% of its coders be female by 2020! Train them in-house if necessary. Spare no expense. Hypocrisy is no excuse.

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    • Agree: rogue-one
    • Replies: @oddsbodkins
    That's the kind of offer Damore should make to Google in exchange for dropping the suit. Invite them to deliver the dream of coding equality at their expense. The trick being how to word it so they can't weasel around it.
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  32. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    1) Damore and the plaintiffs have set up a page to fund legal expenses. https://www.fundedjustice.com/d1JmT3. While their lawyers are likely taking this on contingency, it is a powerful talking point to say a “significant portion of legal expenses were funded by small donations from individuals.” It pre-emptively deflates some narratives that the Left and Media will attempt.

    2) Google is scared of discovery. The internal messages released in the complaint are damning. It is hard to think the private emails will be less so. A major wild card is third class of plaintiffs, the unnamed group that alleges discrimination in hiring. There are likely many cases where a white male with several years experience is rejected as a poor fit, while NAM / woman with marginal experience is hired.

    3) Shocking that no one is talking about the blacklisting aspect of this case. If another employer were checking references, it would be illegal for a Google representative to mention any of this in a background check. But somehow it is excusable for Google execs — sitting atop the most powerful search company — to comment publically on this, effectively blacklisting Damore from his industry. Regardless of the political leanings of Damore, there is an employee rights aspect that has been ignored by a media that has chosen to cheer for Goliath, uh I mean, Google.

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  33. @Anonymous
    I really hope that Damore doesn't settle. Google can offer boatloads of money to make this go away. I want it to continue through disovery and depositions. Given that the law firm is probably financing the case, and given the political aspirations of the firm's main partner, they might have some motive and power to pressure Damore to take it all the way. Having a second plaintiff makes that harder.

    The tactic of omitting all federal claims and relying on state law was pure genius, so it gives me hope that the lawyers are smarter than the original complaint makes them seem.

    If the political correctness crowd had that kind of political intelligence and common sense, they wouldn’t have gotten into this mess in the first place. What makes me laugh is how unnecessary this all was.

    You just fire Damore, what can he do? Gripe over a beer with his buddies. It isn’t as though people will care. You’ll have made the point clear within the company-you decisively get what you want. But, for some reason, getting what they wanted simply wasn’t enough. They needed to sack Carthage and sow the land with salt, out of what can only be interpreted as ideologically fueled animus. So, you attempt to humiliate him and destroy any chance of him getting employment in tech ever again? He’s left with little incentive not to sue, he’s all of a sudden got plenty of conservative, increasingly anti-Silicon Valley lawyers who’d be happy to help him, and the result is a media spectacle in which Google has little chance of pulling off a long-term strategic victory, regardless of what happens tactically. They have massively overestimated their standing with the American public: the warning signs should have been there with Trump’s election, but they didn’t get the message.

    (One interesting dynamic in the Republican Party: as the face of big business increasingly becomes the tech titans, one wonders how much pro-oligarchic/monopoly sentiments will have much of a future among right-wing intellectuals.)

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    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Re your last point: I'm still waiting for Rush Limbaugh to realize that the big capitalists are not our friends. Rush still gushes over the greatness of Apple!
    , @Farenheit
    As someone who works in Silicon Valley, just wanted to let the Steveosphere know that a guy like Damore, asbergy as he may be, will not be unemployed for long. Guys with his pedigree, who can code at the level he can, are worth their weight in platinum. There’s many a young company in the valley that still place a premium on technical talent, and are not in thrall to the PC zeitgeist, that would love to have him. He’ll have plenty of opportunities for work, but first there’s a fish gutting he needs to attend to.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Response to your last paragraph:

    It seems to me there are a few SV types (Thiel, primarily among them) who understand that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn't good for anyone.

    I'm not sure where Musk falls on that spectrum, but I really do hope he gets that moon colony going soon with some urgency.
    , @J.Ross
    In Michael Crichton's novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the "window seat:" not firing, but permanent suspension of any hope of prestige or advancement. You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
    You would think that with all the Mensaucity of the Google meritocratic leadership they would have considered a subtle self-containing solution like -- naw, let's just publicly fire him without a legal basis and then hope everyone else is as self-righteous as we are.
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  34. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    You raise an interesting point, in that Indian and other non-American CEOs might be teaming up with with women to marginalise WEMs, who would be the traditional talent pool from which C-Suite ranks are filled.

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  35. @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    The Left was never against McCarthyism. They were against being the TARGETS of McCarthyism. Remember that the Left is 100% who-whom. There are no 1st principles – the answer to any question depends on who is the “who” and who is the “whom”.

    Legally this is problematic because Damore is going to try to use the whole structure of “civil rights” and “anti-discrimination” that the Left has built in the last 50 years to hoist them on their own petard.

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    • Replies: @Sagamore Sam
    This is exactly the problem with "the Right." They don't understand why their adversary isn't obeying the rules of the game, and they get themselves wrapped around the axle trying to PROVE that the other side is being hypocritical or illogical. Duh.

    The paradigm of Left-Right, Democrat-Republican, etc., is, once begun, entirely self-perpetuated. Like Big Game rivalries, the annual Fall rituals keep it going. Wrapped in one's red Stanford scarf, or sporting a navy blue Cal beret (we don't notice that both were made at very high margin by the same company in the same factory), we cheer for our side, and boo for the other side. The circumstance lends us a ready-made logic; we don't have to deduce it ourselves. All seems rationally consistent. We feel perfectly righteous about our side's cause, and just as perfectly justified in deploring the personal deficiencies of our opponents. They are filthy and unpatriotic Commies (or Nazis), after all.

    About 27 million Americans watch the "That's the way it is" Big Game version of the day's news each night on ABCCBSNBC. [http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/evening-news-ratings-week-of-jan-8-2/355018]. Cable channels peak during the 9pm Eastern time slot, when the insufferably snarky Maddow on MSNBC draws about 3 million woke viewers. At that same time, about a million (news) junkies are nodding off with Cuomo on CNN, while Fox News claims about 3 million highly dangerous (and deplorable) knuckle-dragging viewers of the godawful Hannity show. [http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/scoreboard-wednesday-january-10/354698] By my rough arithmetic, that's 31 million red scarves to 3 million blue berets. Or maybe it's the other way around? If you're playing that game.

    How many read Steve Sailer yesterday, or watched the YouTube video of James Damore being interviewed by Jordan B. Peterson? [https://youtu.be/SEDuVF7kiPU]

    The Damore firing did get a mention at the time on Fox, but as Peterson might say, "They OWN the damn microphone, man."
    , @Flip
    This is the way many women operate. How they feel about a situation depends on which of the parties they like more, whereas men are willing to adhere more to abstract principles.
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  36. You win by bringing the war to the enemy . It’s time to crush Big Tech. ,break their monopolies, and free the people from their thralldom .

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  37. We’ve seen some of the egregious messages that Damore and his allies at Google have been able to dredge up.

    I’m no lawyer, but I’d expect that in a case like this there would be a lot of discovery related to the suit. That’s where I’d expect to see even more damaging stuff come up. Imagine the SJW to SJW communications — e.g., enforcing the blacklists.

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    • Replies: @oddsbodkins
    That will be most interesting. Unfortunately, there was a lot of time between firing and lawsuit to go about deleting emails and chat logs.
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  38. It’s not Damore’s views that strike me, it’s his status. I find it hard to visualize someone that low on the totem pole surviving public controversy. For example, I can’t imagine him surviving at the Trump Corporation.

    Low level shmucks have even gotten fired for liberal controversial things. Like that guy, Adam Smith, who harangued a Chick-fil-A cashier for homophobia, right at the height of the boycott movement, and promptly lost his job! Condemning Chick-fil-A was pretty popular at the time, so he probably didn’t think he was doing anything risky.

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    • Replies: @Kaz
    He was being an idiot complaining to some minimum wage worker about the views of Chick Fil A's owners. He got fired for being an infantile idiot.

    James Damore was being an idiot for posting his political diatribes in a work space. He got fired for being an idiot too. Then again I don't know how Google works and what other things people were posting but people at my workplace (fortune 50) don't post dumb shit like this on either side of the political fence.
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  39. @BEER/ we're all going to die
    Is Damore gonna win big or what? If so, what changes, if any, could a big Damore victory and payment from Goolag bring? I've partially assumed he'll win. Long term black pilled on the WQ and RQ too. Tech titans have already won, white man.

    nah no rule of law anymore

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    • Replies: @scrivener3
    In my opinion, the State and Federal Attorneys General are where all the abuse occurs. They are basically like that device controlled by Capt. Kirk's mistress in the alternate universe Star Trek episode.

    A dishonest Attorney General can take out any one or any thing. An unsubstantiated charge against a fortune 500 company destroys the company. No trial no due process nothing. A vendetta against an individual destroys the individual. The AG has unlimited resources and no punishment for any overreach or even ethical lapse. At the very worse a conviction is overturned and the AG is free to bring more charges.

    Hillary was beyond legal reach because her husband could meet privately with the Attorney General of the US - that's near unlimited power.

    Google has nowhere near that kind of power. The AG (Sessions) _could_ bring Google's capitalization to a few thousand dollars with little effort and no repercussion.
    , @Prof. Woland
    Either way, this is a loss for Google. If Damore wins it will be because it was proven that Google was anti white male. That is hard on a corporate image that prides itself on hating discrimination. If Damore loses, it will be because of blatant political correctness which will probably make Google look even worse. Rather than being a company that liberates people it is one that crushes anyone who gets in their way. The money from any settlement is inconsequential.
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  40. Pichai said that the decision to fire Damore was about ensuring women at Google felt like the company was committed to creating a welcoming environment.

    That is “politically motivated”. Then they lie about it.

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  41. @nebulafox
    If the political correctness crowd had that kind of political intelligence and common sense, they wouldn't have gotten into this mess in the first place. What makes me laugh is how unnecessary this all was.

    You just fire Damore, what can he do? Gripe over a beer with his buddies. It isn't as though people will care. You'll have made the point clear within the company-you decisively get what you want. But, for some reason, getting what they wanted simply wasn't enough. They needed to sack Carthage and sow the land with salt, out of what can only be interpreted as ideologically fueled animus. So, you attempt to humiliate him and destroy any chance of him getting employment in tech ever again? He's left with little incentive not to sue, he's all of a sudden got plenty of conservative, increasingly anti-Silicon Valley lawyers who'd be happy to help him, and the result is a media spectacle in which Google has little chance of pulling off a long-term strategic victory, regardless of what happens tactically. They have massively overestimated their standing with the American public: the warning signs should have been there with Trump's election, but they didn't get the message.

    (One interesting dynamic in the Republican Party: as the face of big business increasingly becomes the tech titans, one wonders how much pro-oligarchic/monopoly sentiments will have much of a future among right-wing intellectuals.)

    Re your last point: I’m still waiting for Rush Limbaugh to realize that the big capitalists are not our friends. Rush still gushes over the greatness of Apple!

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Limbaugh represents, I think, the old style political thinking about economics and culture.

    It used to be, of course, that the rich in the US were aligned with the Republicans and the working/middle class with the Dems -- who were also the party of the intelligentsia.

    I seem to recall that Tom Wolfe once made the point that what made NYC interesting, compared to DC, for example, was that it had "competing elites". That is, there was a financial elite on Wall Street, which had one set of values, and there was the intellectual, artistic elite that had another. The first would be mainly Republicans, and the second would be Democrats. The two elites had some real contempt for each other.

    Now there is one elite. The fabulously rich and the intellectual types lie down together -- often literally in the same bed, with the husband on Wall Street and the wife in some art gallery or non profit. They are both leftists, as the left is now defined, in terms strictly of identity politics. Diversity is the strength of the elites: they can do all the diversity they want without denting their riches. They are not only financially superior, they are morally and intellectually superior.

    Apple is a paradigm case of the convergence of the two elites - as are Google and Facebook. I think Limbaugh, coming from another age, just hasn't come to terms with the fundamental shift in our political culture.

    , @nebulafox
    The smart thing to do would ironically be the laziest, simplest route: buy him off. Pay him what it will take to get him to drop the suit, sign a last-minute ND agreement forbidding him to talk to the media, and then quietly relocate somewhere else: it'll be as if he never existed at Google. Then, the story dies-Google gets out of trouble and gets to look reasonable and moderate to the public, while Damore gets his life back. It is a quite reasonable deal for both sides. I don't know Damore, obviously, but from what I know of his (our) breed, he probably isn't really interested in a luxurious lifestyle or money for the sake of money, so this would be a pittance for Google.

    But I predict that the apparatchiks won't do that. They are way too emotionally invested in this to back down. To do so would also imply they were, if not wrong, mistaken in how they handled things, if you want to read too much into things, I suppose. (That the American public by and large doesn't usually do that, unlike tech geeks, doesn't seem to register.) So, the only way this happens is if Brin and Page directly intervene and overrule them.

    , @Kam Phlodius
    Rush gushes over a lot of things. Bibi, for example.
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  42. @nebulafox
    If the political correctness crowd had that kind of political intelligence and common sense, they wouldn't have gotten into this mess in the first place. What makes me laugh is how unnecessary this all was.

    You just fire Damore, what can he do? Gripe over a beer with his buddies. It isn't as though people will care. You'll have made the point clear within the company-you decisively get what you want. But, for some reason, getting what they wanted simply wasn't enough. They needed to sack Carthage and sow the land with salt, out of what can only be interpreted as ideologically fueled animus. So, you attempt to humiliate him and destroy any chance of him getting employment in tech ever again? He's left with little incentive not to sue, he's all of a sudden got plenty of conservative, increasingly anti-Silicon Valley lawyers who'd be happy to help him, and the result is a media spectacle in which Google has little chance of pulling off a long-term strategic victory, regardless of what happens tactically. They have massively overestimated their standing with the American public: the warning signs should have been there with Trump's election, but they didn't get the message.

    (One interesting dynamic in the Republican Party: as the face of big business increasingly becomes the tech titans, one wonders how much pro-oligarchic/monopoly sentiments will have much of a future among right-wing intellectuals.)

    As someone who works in Silicon Valley, just wanted to let the Steveosphere know that a guy like Damore, asbergy as he may be, will not be unemployed for long. Guys with his pedigree, who can code at the level he can, are worth their weight in platinum. There’s many a young company in the valley that still place a premium on technical talent, and are not in thrall to the PC zeitgeist, that would love to have him. He’ll have plenty of opportunities for work, but first there’s a fish gutting he needs to attend to.

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    • Replies: @rogue-one
    As someone who used to work in Silicon Valley, I disagree with you. Hiring Damore will bring a PR headache to any organization. "Activists" including some coworkers will start protesting against Damore, media will increase scrutiny,(most) investors will shy away.

    >There’s many a young company in the valley that still place a premium on technical talent, and are not in thrall to the PC zeitgeist, that would love to have him.

    Yes, most companies would love to have Damore's skills as an employee but not the negative PR and tensions he will bring. Overall, perhaps Gab or Thiel might hire him. But not salesforce, apple, or a recent y-combinator company (with exception of Gab).

    >He’ll have plenty of opportunities for work, but first there’s a fish gutting he needs to attend to.

    Probably. Once this thing dies down in a couple of years he might have a chance. Or if he moves to some other city. But he is effectively unhireable in Silicon Valley.
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  43. @Cortes
    Men don’t seem to be in need of inclusion in Googleworld.

    What’s that sound, Mr Damore?

    Ker- ching!

    Google will never be all women and that’s not the goal for reasons that Sergey and Larry well understand. It’s not that they don’t want men, it’s that Google wants the right kind of men who share the company’s politics/opinions or are at least willing to keep their mouth’s shut.

    You may be prematurely ker-chinging. The fact that the CEO is commenting on pending litigation tells you something. Either they don’t think they will lose (a real possibility) or they are more intent on sending current and future employees a message while simultaneously virtue signalling. If you look at Google’s financials you’ll see that there’s nothing Damore could realistically win that would in any way harm Google’s pocketbook. The media supports them and they are a financial behemoth, so they will come through this unbowed. If Damore doesn’t settle and he were to win his case and Google doesn’t appeal or they lose on appeal, Silicon Valley might take some notice but they are clever enough to re-adjust their policies and/or procedures to prevent this situation from occurring in the future without actually changing the politics and environment of the company.

    Mr. Damore seems like a smart guy who exhibited some courage in a hostile environment. I have mixed emotions about the government telling companies who they can hire and fire, but that’s the world we live in, so I’d like to see James Damore get compensated for his firing as the chances of him gaining work within his chosen field are not good. Nevertheless, it’s a mistake to think this is going to be a watershed case.

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    Elegantly argued.

    Thanks for the great reply.

    Are we sure that Damore won’t inspire a white male #MeToo?
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  44. Somewhere in the offices of Damore’s attorneys, all of his lawyers in unison are screaming,

    “KEEP TALKING!”

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    • Agree: ben tillman
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  45. @Harry Baldwin
    Re your last point: I'm still waiting for Rush Limbaugh to realize that the big capitalists are not our friends. Rush still gushes over the greatness of Apple!

    Limbaugh represents, I think, the old style political thinking about economics and culture.

    It used to be, of course, that the rich in the US were aligned with the Republicans and the working/middle class with the Dems — who were also the party of the intelligentsia.

    I seem to recall that Tom Wolfe once made the point that what made NYC interesting, compared to DC, for example, was that it had “competing elites”. That is, there was a financial elite on Wall Street, which had one set of values, and there was the intellectual, artistic elite that had another. The first would be mainly Republicans, and the second would be Democrats. The two elites had some real contempt for each other.

    Now there is one elite. The fabulously rich and the intellectual types lie down together — often literally in the same bed, with the husband on Wall Street and the wife in some art gallery or non profit. They are both leftists, as the left is now defined, in terms strictly of identity politics. Diversity is the strength of the elites: they can do all the diversity they want without denting their riches. They are not only financially superior, they are morally and intellectually superior.

    Apple is a paradigm case of the convergence of the two elites – as are Google and Facebook. I think Limbaugh, coming from another age, just hasn’t come to terms with the fundamental shift in our political culture.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    And, as usually happens when competition cools, they're no longer elite in any meaningful sense.
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  46. @Nico
    “Alphabet Soup” maybe is code word for “shag fest”?

    Given the region I’m surprised more tech CEOs have not caught HIV.

    Come on. HIV is a gay problem, and tech magnates aren’t all gay/bi.

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    • Troll: AndrewR
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  47. @Nico
    “Alphabet Soup” maybe is code word for “shag fest”?

    Given the region I’m surprised more tech CEOs have not caught HIV.

    Speaking of shag fest, here is a article about the sex orgies of the Silicon Valley elite by Vanity Fair.,

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/brotopia-silicon-valley-secretive-orgiastic-inner-sanctum

    Just when you think those ADD freaks, men-boy things, soy-boys couldn’t get any freakier, they just have to prove us wrong.

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  48. @candid_observer
    Limbaugh represents, I think, the old style political thinking about economics and culture.

    It used to be, of course, that the rich in the US were aligned with the Republicans and the working/middle class with the Dems -- who were also the party of the intelligentsia.

    I seem to recall that Tom Wolfe once made the point that what made NYC interesting, compared to DC, for example, was that it had "competing elites". That is, there was a financial elite on Wall Street, which had one set of values, and there was the intellectual, artistic elite that had another. The first would be mainly Republicans, and the second would be Democrats. The two elites had some real contempt for each other.

    Now there is one elite. The fabulously rich and the intellectual types lie down together -- often literally in the same bed, with the husband on Wall Street and the wife in some art gallery or non profit. They are both leftists, as the left is now defined, in terms strictly of identity politics. Diversity is the strength of the elites: they can do all the diversity they want without denting their riches. They are not only financially superior, they are morally and intellectually superior.

    Apple is a paradigm case of the convergence of the two elites - as are Google and Facebook. I think Limbaugh, coming from another age, just hasn't come to terms with the fundamental shift in our political culture.

    And, as usually happens when competition cools, they’re no longer elite in any meaningful sense.

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  49. “Making things welcoming for women”

    Perhaps this explains the recent meltdown of Google Maps. New instructions: “stop and get directions at a gas station!”

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  50. @Harry Baldwin
    Re your last point: I'm still waiting for Rush Limbaugh to realize that the big capitalists are not our friends. Rush still gushes over the greatness of Apple!

    The smart thing to do would ironically be the laziest, simplest route: buy him off. Pay him what it will take to get him to drop the suit, sign a last-minute ND agreement forbidding him to talk to the media, and then quietly relocate somewhere else: it’ll be as if he never existed at Google. Then, the story dies-Google gets out of trouble and gets to look reasonable and moderate to the public, while Damore gets his life back. It is a quite reasonable deal for both sides. I don’t know Damore, obviously, but from what I know of his (our) breed, he probably isn’t really interested in a luxurious lifestyle or money for the sake of money, so this would be a pittance for Google.

    But I predict that the apparatchiks won’t do that. They are way too emotionally invested in this to back down. To do so would also imply they were, if not wrong, mistaken in how they handled things, if you want to read too much into things, I suppose. (That the American public by and large doesn’t usually do that, unlike tech geeks, doesn’t seem to register.) So, the only way this happens is if Brin and Page directly intervene and overrule them.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    The issue with paying Damore is that it would encourage more Damores. Damoring could become a decent way to get some fu..k you money and split.

    The scenarios are easy. Even if the payouts don't bother Googlistas, the disruptive nature of people creating pretexts to be fired would get more publicity than Damore's trial. They will try to crush him, no payout, it is about the precedent. They will also suppress discovery with 'business secrecy' and judges and juries in California are not exactly into free speech.

    Most damage is from bad publicity. But Google News aggregation knows how to handle that, don't they?
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  51. It’s important for the women at Google, and all the people at Google, that we want to make an inclusive environment.”

    Except for men.

    And whites.

    They aren’t people.

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    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    Correct me if I misunderstand, but a commenter to another iSteve post linked to a Jordan Peterson video. In this interview he pretty much said the same thing as what got Mr. Damore in trouble and pretty much got the same hostile reaction that Mr. Damore was subject to. The major difference is that Jordan Peterson was better versed in the science of gender differences, citing that factor analysis on the gender pay gap revealed 16 components to it for which gender was a minor contributor. Peterson knows this because factor analysis in clinical psychology is what he does.

    So answer me this, does Google bring in outside speakers for their employees to hear? Bell Labs did such a thing in bringing in Stephen Jay Gould once upon a time. I take it that Jordan Peterson would not be invited to Google on account of his gender views?

    OK then, Google is a commercial enterprise and they have their Citizen's United free speech as a corporation to not invite Jordan Peterson. But what about a (non-profit) university? A public university. Will they choose to not invite Jordan Peterson on account of making women students and employees feel included? Will they invite them and this will result in a big protest? Will university administrators let the protesters have their Heckler's Veto?

    This is where I see the Google incident being on the slippery slope. For now, remind them they are exercising there free speech right as a corporation subject to the Citizens United decision and let them contemplate the irony.

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  52. @BEER/ we're all going to die
    Is Damore gonna win big or what? If so, what changes, if any, could a big Damore victory and payment from Goolag bring? I've partially assumed he'll win. Long term black pilled on the WQ and RQ too. Tech titans have already won, white man.

    However “Big” Damore might win, it will still be parking change in Google’s grand scheme of things– hence the arrogance of this streetshitter.

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  53. @guest
    I kinda thought the argument would be that the firing couldn't be political because they didn't catch Damore carrying a Republican Party card, or something.

    I’m sure Google will argue that Damore’s memo wasn’t political per se.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    According to California Labor Law code 1102, his opinions and the letter are not political.
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  54. @BEER/ we're all going to die
    Is Damore gonna win big or what? If so, what changes, if any, could a big Damore victory and payment from Goolag bring? I've partially assumed he'll win. Long term black pilled on the WQ and RQ too. Tech titans have already won, white man.

    Not really. One can use another search engine and avoiding feeding advertising revenue to Google. Google seized control of searching because it was better, no question about it. I’ve used Bing since the Damore memo, but I still use Google with no tracking on Brave when Bing doesn’t find what I need.

    The interesting thing is that, by censoring politically incorrect searches, Google makes itself less useful than fully open search engines. That will drive any number of people at the margin to use a different engine. When the alt-right searchers are all using another engine, you’ll have 25-30% of the US market unavailable to people advertising on Google. That will move the locus of power away from Google, and they do not make money on any other product, not enough to pay the salaries of an army of SJWs.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Good. All we need is a better search engine then. Between Googles endless spam and its endless manipulation it shouldn't really be that hard to come up with an alternative. But how to get to market...
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  55. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    I agree. A lot of society’s problems can be traced to the facts that (1) women are basically children; and (2) men are thirsty for female approval.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
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  56. I don’t regret my decision to permanently ditch Google for internet search.

    It was the right decision.
    .
    .

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    I don’t regret my decision to permanently ditch Google for internet search.

    It was the right decision.
     
    What do you use? I use StartPage sometimes, but Google still seems to have the best search engine. I would like to use something different; any recommendations would be appreciated.
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  57. > “I Don’t Regret”

    Why would Pichai regret? Pichai paid no cost for firing Damore, rather he became a celebrated liberal icon. It is Damore who suffered.

    Unless those on right impose a cost on companies like Google for their uber-liberal values, it is unlikely their leaders will ever regret destroying those who question the liberal orthodoxy.

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  58. They have to buy him out. If it goes to discovery, he’ll get the email traffic and it will blow up.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If anyone on earth can make old internal emails disappear, it's Google.
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  59. @nebulafox
    The smart thing to do would ironically be the laziest, simplest route: buy him off. Pay him what it will take to get him to drop the suit, sign a last-minute ND agreement forbidding him to talk to the media, and then quietly relocate somewhere else: it'll be as if he never existed at Google. Then, the story dies-Google gets out of trouble and gets to look reasonable and moderate to the public, while Damore gets his life back. It is a quite reasonable deal for both sides. I don't know Damore, obviously, but from what I know of his (our) breed, he probably isn't really interested in a luxurious lifestyle or money for the sake of money, so this would be a pittance for Google.

    But I predict that the apparatchiks won't do that. They are way too emotionally invested in this to back down. To do so would also imply they were, if not wrong, mistaken in how they handled things, if you want to read too much into things, I suppose. (That the American public by and large doesn't usually do that, unlike tech geeks, doesn't seem to register.) So, the only way this happens is if Brin and Page directly intervene and overrule them.

    The issue with paying Damore is that it would encourage more Damores. Damoring could become a decent way to get some fu..k you money and split.

    The scenarios are easy. Even if the payouts don’t bother Googlistas, the disruptive nature of people creating pretexts to be fired would get more publicity than Damore’s trial. They will try to crush him, no payout, it is about the precedent. They will also suppress discovery with ‘business secrecy’ and judges and juries in California are not exactly into free speech.

    Most damage is from bad publicity. But Google News aggregation knows how to handle that, don’t they?

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    People like Damore who would have the intelligence and anal quality to create such a memo in tandem with the social ineptitude (or lack of SJW ideology themselves) to voice such opinions are not exactly ruthless, Machiavellian bargainers out for every cent they can get. They want to be left alone to their code. People who would opt for that route typically won't do what Damore did or be in his high performance technical role within the company to start with. Chances are, they'd be in other roles nd would also be lazy enough to not see the profit in it vs. potential risk. Thus, they would simply parrot and enforce SJW ideology instead. Most people want the most money for the least amount of work-and the least amount of risk.

    Damore's memo is very well-written and objective, befitting a former training scientist. He bends over backwards to not discount the problem of sexism in Silicon Valley and to stress the generalities of his conclusions. He doesn't just diagnose, he offers prescriptions. I.e-it is glaringly obvious that he truly believed there was a problem, that he attempted to talk about it in good faith, and that Google's reaction (again: they didn't just fire him, they tried to blacklist him and discredit him) suggested that his critiques had merit. Whereas if someone was just being a loud jerk-off for the sake of offending people to get fired and have a payout, no high-priced lawyer would fight pro bono for him. (Not to mention that Google would have a tougher time blacklisting such a person effectively, especially if they just simply fired him rather than attempt to crush him, as would likely be the case.) The media would not pay loads of attention, either. A lawsuit from somebody like that would get nowhere.

    >Most damage is from bad publicity. But Google News aggregation knows how to handle that, don’t they?

    The bad PR is way, way more damaging. Google has tons of money, enough to do anything they please from political lobbying to pet technical projects. They don't need any more. PR, on the other hand, is a bit of a problem given that America's views on Silicon Valley titans are changing. And control over sources of information is hard to keep going over the course of decades, and is getting ever harder. The New York Times and CNN learned that the hard way. (So did FOX, for that matter.) Now Google is, too.

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  60. @nebulafox
    If the political correctness crowd had that kind of political intelligence and common sense, they wouldn't have gotten into this mess in the first place. What makes me laugh is how unnecessary this all was.

    You just fire Damore, what can he do? Gripe over a beer with his buddies. It isn't as though people will care. You'll have made the point clear within the company-you decisively get what you want. But, for some reason, getting what they wanted simply wasn't enough. They needed to sack Carthage and sow the land with salt, out of what can only be interpreted as ideologically fueled animus. So, you attempt to humiliate him and destroy any chance of him getting employment in tech ever again? He's left with little incentive not to sue, he's all of a sudden got plenty of conservative, increasingly anti-Silicon Valley lawyers who'd be happy to help him, and the result is a media spectacle in which Google has little chance of pulling off a long-term strategic victory, regardless of what happens tactically. They have massively overestimated their standing with the American public: the warning signs should have been there with Trump's election, but they didn't get the message.

    (One interesting dynamic in the Republican Party: as the face of big business increasingly becomes the tech titans, one wonders how much pro-oligarchic/monopoly sentiments will have much of a future among right-wing intellectuals.)

    Response to your last paragraph:

    It seems to me there are a few SV types (Thiel, primarily among them) who understand that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn’t good for anyone.

    I’m not sure where Musk falls on that spectrum, but I really do hope he gets that moon colony going soon with some urgency.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    20%?? We're already about 40 or 50 %. Or did you just mean America. America is already about 25-35%.
    , @AnotherDad

    that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn’t good for anyone.
     
    20%? I wish.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    Mars colony, the Moon mission is not landing there, just a dry run to prove he can leave the Earth's gravity and return back.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I don't want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
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  61. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    as they run their companies into the ground

    It is starting to seem likely that Sister Anne has not been doing a good job with 23andMe. Their results tend not to jive with other companies’ results, which do confirm one another. Who you gonna believe about your ancestry, the woman who rented a garage to the Google guys, or a geneticist?

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Consumer Reports or some other party could perform a comparison between testing companies and their results. Maybe someone has already. That could show which one(s) may apply their own secret sauce to the results. If three of four show X and the fourth one shows X', then somebody should be asked to explain. That could help to flush out those claims of spurious or specious results. In any event, not sure of the compelling reason for most people to consume those tests unless some genetic history indicates a need. The whole thing seems like some devious marketing exercise with a small dollop of actual benefit to a tiny audience.
    , @guest
    I like that pic. She's giving hard "sincere face," but a bit below it's still "check out my tits."
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  62. @Harry Baldwin
    Re your last point: I'm still waiting for Rush Limbaugh to realize that the big capitalists are not our friends. Rush still gushes over the greatness of Apple!

    Rush gushes over a lot of things. Bibi, for example.

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    • Replies: @nebulafox
    His feelings for Israel can be best described as somewhat unnatural, even on right-wing shock jock standards. Even Ted Cruz doesn't display a latent homoerotic tone over it.
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  63. @candid_observer
    We've seen some of the egregious messages that Damore and his allies at Google have been able to dredge up.

    I'm no lawyer, but I'd expect that in a case like this there would be a lot of discovery related to the suit. That's where I'd expect to see even more damaging stuff come up. Imagine the SJW to SJW communications -- e.g., enforcing the blacklists.

    That will be most interesting. Unfortunately, there was a lot of time between firing and lawsuit to go about deleting emails and chat logs.

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    • Replies: @scrivener3
    deleting emails are hard. other people have copies and they may not want to go to jail just to cover up for some heartless corporation.
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  64. Mostly OT, but relevant to the “nurture trumps nature” decree at Google that Damore trespassed: Just in case you didn’t click on this Drudge link, it’s the summary of a documentary that touches on a lot of themes you’re interested in.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/sundance-debuts-dark-tale-triplets-split-birth-093524368.html

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  65. @Luke Lea
    Time to make Google live up to its own clearly avowed principles and beliefs. Demand that 50% of its coders be female by 2020! Train them in-house if necessary. Spare no expense. Hypocrisy is no excuse.

    That’s the kind of offer Damore should make to Google in exchange for dropping the suit. Invite them to deliver the dream of coding equality at their expense. The trick being how to word it so they can’t weasel around it.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    It's my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.

    Then all the liberals can have rejoice that the big bad wolf of merit hiring has been defeated once again.
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  66. @Achmed E. Newman

    “I regret that people misunderstand that we may have made this for a political belief one way or another,” Pichai said.
     
    See, that kind of "regretting" shows either a poor command of English (very likely) or it's more Orwelllian doublespeak (additionally likely). One cannot regret something done by someone else. Mr. Pichai didn't do the misunderstanding, as he calls it, so he can't regret that.

    "It's too bad that people misunderstand that ..." would be a lot more honest, although most likely still a bunch of bull, as we KNOW this was done for political reasons. We don't misunderstand anything, so you can't do our regretting for us, Mr. Pichai, as there was no mistake to begin with.

    I regret wasting my time reading anything this PC asshole has to say - now THAT is proper use of English, btichez!

    According to Webster’s 2nd, “To remember with sorrow or grief… To have dissatisfaction, misgivings, or distress of mind concerning.” It specifies nothing about only regretting one’s own actions or failures and it gives as an example of usage “regret the election of” someone. There’s also nothing about the etymology, “to weep,” that would support your view.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Noah Webster can kiss my ass. I know what the word regret means in American English.

    "I regret the birth of Hillary Clinton." That doesn't sound correct to me. It should be "The birth of Hillary Clinton was egregious."

    Maybe that guy is not even an American ... wait a minute ..
    , @ben tillman
    Well, one certainly can't regret something that is happening now.
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  67. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    These are all symptoms of a industry that has seen better days. Innovation has basically ceased and been replaced by a form of rent-seeking and mass manipulation for data mining purposes.

    IOW this is not Silicon Valley that spawned SGI, Sun, HP, that made real products.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    SGI, Sun, HP, that made real products.
     
    These are names from the domain of nostalgia.

    We still have Nvidia and Intel (the latter sometimes dropping the ball and going for marketing glitz and dubious innovation (dubiovation?) - opaque management engines and random number generators for one - more often that is healthy) and probably others that I don't remember.

    A lot of good software is now "community driven", which is a good, though the results are often klunky due to lack of skills or lack of good project management.

    Ceterum censeo, the whole investment into the JavaScript reinvented square wheel could be skunk at sea and nothing of value would be lost. Too many unchaperoned newcomers are getting dragged into this particular IT opiate crises. It's become actually harmful. Elm is a nice language though.
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  68. @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    Exactly this.

    They had to craft Susan’s hissy fit into some sort of plausible non-political but politically palatable firing offense. There is little doubt that this line has been carefully vetted by their lawyers as the best they can do.

    One big problem they have is … Susan. Her statements reveal political/personal-resentment motives even in her cooked up dinner table conversations with her kids. And she’s bragged about being the driver who pushed the meeting to a decision to can Damore.

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    • Replies: @Sagamore Sam
    California is an "at will" state, meaning an employee can be let go at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. Exceptions for issues related to protected classes, and this will likely be the first bar plaintiff will need to clear.

    Was Damore a whistleblower, fired in retaliation for speaking out about Google's illegal discriminatory behavior? If the company shows the policies Damore complained about were not illegal, perhaps his claim of retaliation is blunted. His memo could then be portrayed, ipso facto, as creating a hostile work environment for "literally shaking" snowflake co-workers. It seems to me the key here is how much leeway the judge will allow Damore's attorneys to pry into Google's HR processes. Google has to make sure the judge won't allow them to pull on that string.

    What I would love to see is Google being forced to detail the demographics of its workforce. There could be patterns of disparate impact of all kinds! Surely their over-40 numbers are deficient. Do they hire even close to the proper numbers of African-Americans? Do their NAM numbers skew to the low-pay end? Obviously the fairer sex is well represented in the executive suite, if you count wives and sisters (mistresses?), but how about at the lower levels of management in the IT department?

    Methinks there is a lot about this case that Google just doesn't want to litigate. There are ministerial investigations of Google going on all over the world, and this case can't help their predicament. Best to resolve it as quickly as possible. Pay the man, and move on. Damore has them over a relatively small barrel, but he should ask a REAL fortune for a settlement. Alphabet made $20 billion profit last reported year (2016). Take a chunk out of that.
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  69. Folks, don’t you love how, whatever the issue, Jack always knew it all along, and is never surprised by anythng? But really, LeftLawyer raises an important point – where are the great trial lawyers? Man, if there was ever a case for Joe Cotchett or Gary Olimpia or Cliff Palefsky, this is it. But no, turns out they’re terrified of women, and it’s more important to protect Valerie Plame from Scooter Libby than all men from the techverse.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Aren't most of the great trail attorneys liberal men?
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  70. @ben tillman

    It’s important for the women at Google, and all the people at Google, that we want to make an inclusive environment.”
     
    Except for men.

    And whites.

    They aren't people.

    Correct me if I misunderstand, but a commenter to another iSteve post linked to a Jordan Peterson video. In this interview he pretty much said the same thing as what got Mr. Damore in trouble and pretty much got the same hostile reaction that Mr. Damore was subject to. The major difference is that Jordan Peterson was better versed in the science of gender differences, citing that factor analysis on the gender pay gap revealed 16 components to it for which gender was a minor contributor. Peterson knows this because factor analysis in clinical psychology is what he does.

    So answer me this, does Google bring in outside speakers for their employees to hear? Bell Labs did such a thing in bringing in Stephen Jay Gould once upon a time. I take it that Jordan Peterson would not be invited to Google on account of his gender views?

    OK then, Google is a commercial enterprise and they have their Citizen’s United free speech as a corporation to not invite Jordan Peterson. But what about a (non-profit) university? A public university. Will they choose to not invite Jordan Peterson on account of making women students and employees feel included? Will they invite them and this will result in a big protest? Will university administrators let the protesters have their Heckler’s Veto?

    This is where I see the Google incident being on the slippery slope. For now, remind them they are exercising there free speech right as a corporation subject to the Citizens United decision and let them contemplate the irony.

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    • Replies: @guest
    You are severely confused. Disallowing Peterson the opportunity to speak at Google would be a free speech issue from Peterson's side, not Google's. Google would be asserting property rights or association rights, which have nothing to do with Citizen's United.

    None of this has anything to do with the Damore case, which is about labor laws, not free speech.

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  71. @BEER/ we're all going to die
    Is Damore gonna win big or what? If so, what changes, if any, could a big Damore victory and payment from Goolag bring? I've partially assumed he'll win. Long term black pilled on the WQ and RQ too. Tech titans have already won, white man.

    zero chance because of location and the general biases of our judiciary on this topic (the law as written* is not necessarily a guide for a particular kind of case on a particular kind of law in a particular court)

    *liberals liked taking power away from the dead cis-hetero white men who wrote the Constitution, of course, but even “conservative” Richard Posner made the somewhat novel move f explicitly articulating that even his *theory* of jurisprudence is, “I do whatever the hell I want to settle the case in front of me because I’m the judge.”

    This was a cute bit of gordian knot-cutting since textualists or originalists like Scalia** would fairly often humiliate liberals in debates about their offered theoretical justifications (which did NOT suggest they were legalizing abortion just because they felt like it)

    **even my liberal classmates appreciated a good Scalia iceburn, and he very thoughtfully included in his work many hilariously devastating dissents and opinions with their concomitant sassy asides, rejoinders, footnotes, etc. for the bored & miserable law student.

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  72. The big driver on this type of case comes down to the big D; Discovery. Google is going to try anything they can to keep lawyers from crawling through their records and deposing employees. For once the Left is going to be a victim of their strategy of using the legal process itself to punish their enemies, regardless of what the final outcome will be of the trial. Mark Steyn’s travails are a textbook case of the Left using legal institutions to drag out a losing case but bankrupt him in the process. You won’t bankrupt a Google but you can embarrass them, and it’s to be hoped, put a little hit on their stock price.

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  73. @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .

    I remember that also. It’s called fired without cause and is forbidden in contracts between employers and organized employees. The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd. The zombies now referred to as the left have abandoned the Enlightenment. That’s how they are able to assert that exclusiveness is inclusiveness, wrong is right and right is left.

    I wouldn’t work for Susan (Queen of rent seekers) Wojcicki for any amount of money.

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  74. For those who wish to not give Google and Susan Wojcicki’s YouTube their business, Duckduckgo.com and Bing.com are fine search engines, and DailyMotion and Vimeo are YouTube-like sites that can serve as an alternative.

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  75. god, he fugly and toopid

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  76. @David
    According to Webster's 2nd, "To remember with sorrow or grief... To have dissatisfaction, misgivings, or distress of mind concerning." It specifies nothing about only regretting one's own actions or failures and it gives as an example of usage "regret the election of" someone. There's also nothing about the etymology, "to weep," that would support your view.

    Noah Webster can kiss my ass. I know what the word regret means in American English.

    “I regret the birth of Hillary Clinton.” That doesn’t sound correct to me. It should be “The birth of Hillary Clinton was egregious.”

    Maybe that guy is not even an American … wait a minute ..

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Sorry, David, I came off sounding mad, but was being somewhat facetious. I really don't think, though, that the use of the word you quoted from Webster's is active. I guess I should try to find an example, but I've been here a long time, and when I think about it, it still seems incorrect.

    "I regret that I didn't put more clean-outs on that stretch of sewer line." OK, fine.
    "I regret that my plumber didn't install those clean-outs on the sewer line after I told him to, before he glued it all together." It is not something I'd say, as it sounds silly. In the 2nd sentence, why would I feel regret. I would feel mild anger.

    This brings up a simlar thing, the apology on behalf of the one you have a disagreement with:

    "The management of Big Corp, Incorporated is sorry for our customers' anger at having to deal with a 10-stage phone tree and then our customer care staff that are just finishing their TOEFL exams. We feel that our customers should be more tolerant on the phone. Again, we are sorry you customers are so angry. You will be receiving coupons for a personal pan pizza (blackout days may apply). - - Big Corp. Legal Dept. head Jackie Chiles.
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  77. @Beckow
    The issue with paying Damore is that it would encourage more Damores. Damoring could become a decent way to get some fu..k you money and split.

    The scenarios are easy. Even if the payouts don't bother Googlistas, the disruptive nature of people creating pretexts to be fired would get more publicity than Damore's trial. They will try to crush him, no payout, it is about the precedent. They will also suppress discovery with 'business secrecy' and judges and juries in California are not exactly into free speech.

    Most damage is from bad publicity. But Google News aggregation knows how to handle that, don't they?

    People like Damore who would have the intelligence and anal quality to create such a memo in tandem with the social ineptitude (or lack of SJW ideology themselves) to voice such opinions are not exactly ruthless, Machiavellian bargainers out for every cent they can get. They want to be left alone to their code. People who would opt for that route typically won’t do what Damore did or be in his high performance technical role within the company to start with. Chances are, they’d be in other roles nd would also be lazy enough to not see the profit in it vs. potential risk. Thus, they would simply parrot and enforce SJW ideology instead. Most people want the most money for the least amount of work-and the least amount of risk.

    Damore’s memo is very well-written and objective, befitting a former training scientist. He bends over backwards to not discount the problem of sexism in Silicon Valley and to stress the generalities of his conclusions. He doesn’t just diagnose, he offers prescriptions. I.e-it is glaringly obvious that he truly believed there was a problem, that he attempted to talk about it in good faith, and that Google’s reaction (again: they didn’t just fire him, they tried to blacklist him and discredit him) suggested that his critiques had merit. Whereas if someone was just being a loud jerk-off for the sake of offending people to get fired and have a payout, no high-priced lawyer would fight pro bono for him. (Not to mention that Google would have a tougher time blacklisting such a person effectively, especially if they just simply fired him rather than attempt to crush him, as would likely be the case.) The media would not pay loads of attention, either. A lawsuit from somebody like that would get nowhere.

    >Most damage is from bad publicity. But Google News aggregation knows how to handle that, don’t they?

    The bad PR is way, way more damaging. Google has tons of money, enough to do anything they please from political lobbying to pet technical projects. They don’t need any more. PR, on the other hand, is a bit of a problem given that America’s views on Silicon Valley titans are changing. And control over sources of information is hard to keep going over the course of decades, and is getting ever harder. The New York Times and CNN learned that the hard way. (So did FOX, for that matter.) Now Google is, too.

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    • Replies: @Beckow
    I agree that Damore is rather unique. Yet when lawyers tell Google execs that paying Damore would establish a dangerous precedent, it will be taken seriously.

    Google also has years of media dominance, so they feel self-confident that they can manage it. Bad PR only matters if it is publicised.
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  78. @Kam Phlodius
    Rush gushes over a lot of things. Bibi, for example.

    His feelings for Israel can be best described as somewhat unnatural, even on right-wing shock jock standards. Even Ted Cruz doesn’t display a latent homoerotic tone over it.

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    It's why the Masters of The Media Universe still let him stay on the air.
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  79. @Vinay
    It’s not Damore’s views that strike me, it’s his status. I find it hard to visualize someone that low on the totem pole surviving public controversy. For example, I can’t imagine him surviving at the Trump Corporation.

    Low level shmucks have even gotten fired for liberal controversial things. Like that guy, Adam Smith, who harangued a Chick-fil-A cashier for homophobia, right at the height of the boycott movement, and promptly lost his job! Condemning Chick-fil-A was pretty popular at the time, so he probably didn’t think he was doing anything risky.

    He was being an idiot complaining to some minimum wage worker about the views of Chick Fil A’s owners. He got fired for being an infantile idiot.

    James Damore was being an idiot for posting his political diatribes in a work space. He got fired for being an idiot too. Then again I don’t know how Google works and what other things people were posting but people at my workplace (fortune 50) don’t post dumb shit like this on either side of the political fence.

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  80. @nebulafox
    His feelings for Israel can be best described as somewhat unnatural, even on right-wing shock jock standards. Even Ted Cruz doesn't display a latent homoerotic tone over it.

    It’s why the Masters of The Media Universe still let him stay on the air.

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  81. @Seth Largo
    as they run their companies into the ground

    It is starting to seem likely that Sister Anne has not been doing a good job with 23andMe. Their results tend not to jive with other companies' results, which do confirm one another. Who you gonna believe about your ancestry, the woman who rented a garage to the Google guys, or a geneticist?

    https://twitter.com/spwells/status/954186443257204736

    Consumer Reports or some other party could perform a comparison between testing companies and their results. Maybe someone has already. That could show which one(s) may apply their own secret sauce to the results. If three of four show X and the fourth one shows X’, then somebody should be asked to explain. That could help to flush out those claims of spurious or specious results. In any event, not sure of the compelling reason for most people to consume those tests unless some genetic history indicates a need. The whole thing seems like some devious marketing exercise with a small dollop of actual benefit to a tiny audience.

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  82. @Seth Largo
    as they run their companies into the ground

    It is starting to seem likely that Sister Anne has not been doing a good job with 23andMe. Their results tend not to jive with other companies' results, which do confirm one another. Who you gonna believe about your ancestry, the woman who rented a garage to the Google guys, or a geneticist?

    https://twitter.com/spwells/status/954186443257204736

    I like that pic. She’s giving hard “sincere face,” but a bit below it’s still “check out my tits.”

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    YAWALT
    , @Antlitz Grollheim
    I guess women really can have it all.
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  83. @Farenheit
    As someone who works in Silicon Valley, just wanted to let the Steveosphere know that a guy like Damore, asbergy as he may be, will not be unemployed for long. Guys with his pedigree, who can code at the level he can, are worth their weight in platinum. There’s many a young company in the valley that still place a premium on technical talent, and are not in thrall to the PC zeitgeist, that would love to have him. He’ll have plenty of opportunities for work, but first there’s a fish gutting he needs to attend to.

    As someone who used to work in Silicon Valley, I disagree with you. Hiring Damore will bring a PR headache to any organization. “Activists” including some coworkers will start protesting against Damore, media will increase scrutiny,(most) investors will shy away.

    >There’s many a young company in the valley that still place a premium on technical talent, and are not in thrall to the PC zeitgeist, that would love to have him.

    Yes, most companies would love to have Damore’s skills as an employee but not the negative PR and tensions he will bring. Overall, perhaps Gab or Thiel might hire him. But not salesforce, apple, or a recent y-combinator company (with exception of Gab).

    >He’ll have plenty of opportunities for work, but first there’s a fish gutting he needs to attend to.

    Probably. Once this thing dies down in a couple of years he might have a chance. Or if he moves to some other city. But he is effectively unhireable in Silicon Valley.

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    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars? Google in it's early days, or Facebook when it started certainly was not filled with them, or even had them period. My impression that those types come on board once the company is already a household name of at least some note. I think that was his point. Is there less start up activity in SV now? If companies truly want the best and they no have huge HR infrastructure full of SJWs to object and nobody has heard of them why wouldn't they hire him?
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  84. @Inquiring Mind
    Correct me if I misunderstand, but a commenter to another iSteve post linked to a Jordan Peterson video. In this interview he pretty much said the same thing as what got Mr. Damore in trouble and pretty much got the same hostile reaction that Mr. Damore was subject to. The major difference is that Jordan Peterson was better versed in the science of gender differences, citing that factor analysis on the gender pay gap revealed 16 components to it for which gender was a minor contributor. Peterson knows this because factor analysis in clinical psychology is what he does.

    So answer me this, does Google bring in outside speakers for their employees to hear? Bell Labs did such a thing in bringing in Stephen Jay Gould once upon a time. I take it that Jordan Peterson would not be invited to Google on account of his gender views?

    OK then, Google is a commercial enterprise and they have their Citizen's United free speech as a corporation to not invite Jordan Peterson. But what about a (non-profit) university? A public university. Will they choose to not invite Jordan Peterson on account of making women students and employees feel included? Will they invite them and this will result in a big protest? Will university administrators let the protesters have their Heckler's Veto?

    This is where I see the Google incident being on the slippery slope. For now, remind them they are exercising there free speech right as a corporation subject to the Citizens United decision and let them contemplate the irony.

    You are severely confused. Disallowing Peterson the opportunity to speak at Google would be a free speech issue from Peterson’s side, not Google’s. Google would be asserting property rights or association rights, which have nothing to do with Citizen’s United.

    None of this has anything to do with the Damore case, which is about labor laws, not free speech.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Free speech only applies to government restraint of speech. A business can restrain speech all it wants. For instance, when I was young men were free to make really crude vulgar remarks about women.

    Companies now prohibit it. It is not restraint of speech. Its just a way of making the workplace more civilized. For a while when the gay movement really got going, gays imposed their love affairs and views on fellow co workers. That was construed sex harassement. So HRs ordered it stopped.
    Its not free speech for a gay co worker to tell you all about the 5 guys he had sex with last night.

    It's not free speech for a co worker to tell you he'd like to fuck you.

    Type free speech in to the work place for expert explanations.
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  85. @TomSchmidt
    Not really. One can use another search engine and avoiding feeding advertising revenue to Google. Google seized control of searching because it was better, no question about it. I've used Bing since the Damore memo, but I still use Google with no tracking on Brave when Bing doesn't find what I need.

    The interesting thing is that, by censoring politically incorrect searches, Google makes itself less useful than fully open search engines. That will drive any number of people at the margin to use a different engine. When the alt-right searchers are all using another engine, you'll have 25-30% of the US market unavailable to people advertising on Google. That will move the locus of power away from Google, and they do not make money on any other product, not enough to pay the salaries of an army of SJWs.

    Good. All we need is a better search engine then. Between Googles endless spam and its endless manipulation it shouldn’t really be that hard to come up with an alternative. But how to get to market…

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  86. @Tim
    They have to buy him out. If it goes to discovery, he'll get the email traffic and it will blow up.

    If anyone on earth can make old internal emails disappear, it’s Google.

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  87. @Jack Hanson
    Response to your last paragraph:

    It seems to me there are a few SV types (Thiel, primarily among them) who understand that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn't good for anyone.

    I'm not sure where Musk falls on that spectrum, but I really do hope he gets that moon colony going soon with some urgency.

    20%?? We’re already about 40 or 50 %. Or did you just mean America. America is already about 25-35%.

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  88. @WorkingClass

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .
     
    I remember that also. It's called fired without cause and is forbidden in contracts between employers and organized employees. The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd. The zombies now referred to as the left have abandoned the Enlightenment. That's how they are able to assert that exclusiveness is inclusiveness, wrong is right and right is left.

    I wouldn't work for Susan (Queen of rent seekers) Wojcicki for any amount of money.

    “The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd.”

    At least 50 years behind the times.

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    • Replies: @guest
    It wasn't true 50 years ago, either. Especially if the CEO didn't start the company.

    Of course, they could have been "of the left" simply because they were interested in lining their own pockets. But I'm not interested in whether they did what they did out of genuine love in their hearts for the working class, or whatever the standard may be. Leftist is as leftist does.
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  89. Read More
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  90. @Jack D
    The Left was never against McCarthyism. They were against being the TARGETS of McCarthyism. Remember that the Left is 100% who-whom. There are no 1st principles - the answer to any question depends on who is the "who" and who is the "whom".

    Legally this is problematic because Damore is going to try to use the whole structure of "civil rights" and "anti-discrimination" that the Left has built in the last 50 years to hoist them on their own petard.

    This is exactly the problem with “the Right.” They don’t understand why their adversary isn’t obeying the rules of the game, and they get themselves wrapped around the axle trying to PROVE that the other side is being hypocritical or illogical. Duh.

    The paradigm of Left-Right, Democrat-Republican, etc., is, once begun, entirely self-perpetuated. Like Big Game rivalries, the annual Fall rituals keep it going. Wrapped in one’s red Stanford scarf, or sporting a navy blue Cal beret (we don’t notice that both were made at very high margin by the same company in the same factory), we cheer for our side, and boo for the other side. The circumstance lends us a ready-made logic; we don’t have to deduce it ourselves. All seems rationally consistent. We feel perfectly righteous about our side’s cause, and just as perfectly justified in deploring the personal deficiencies of our opponents. They are filthy and unpatriotic Commies (or Nazis), after all.

    About 27 million Americans watch the “That’s the way it is” Big Game version of the day’s news each night on ABCCBSNBC. (http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/evening-news-ratings-week-of-jan-8-2/355018. Cable channels peak during the 9pm Eastern time slot, when the insufferably snarky Maddow on MSNBC draws about 3 million woke viewers. At that same time, about a million (news) junkies are nodding off with Cuomo on CNN, while Fox News claims about 3 million highly dangerous (and deplorable) knuckle-dragging viewers of the godawful Hannity show. (http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/scoreboard-wednesday-january-10/354698 By my rough arithmetic, that’s 31 million red scarves to 3 million blue berets. Or maybe it’s the other way around? If you’re playing that game.

    How many read Steve Sailer yesterday, or watched the YouTube video of James Damore being interviewed by Jordan B. Peterson? (https://youtu.be/SEDuVF7kiPU

    The Damore firing did get a mention at the time on Fox, but as Peterson might say, “They OWN the damn microphone, man.”

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  91. OT:

    Last week, the new Brightline train began running from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach. This is but the first leg of a privately-run high-speed Miami-Orlando service. (The Miami-Fort Lauderdale leg should open later this year.)

    The ticket machines don’t take cash, so the homeless derelicts who dominate public transportation are mostly shut out. A one-way ticket is $10 – $5 more than the venerable Tri-Rail. (Tri-Rail is slower but has has many more stations along the same route, including the Miami airport; Brightline travels upwards of 90 miles an hour and goes right through the downtown areas of both cities.) A “premium” ticket is $15.

    In the last seven days, Brightline trains have hit three people. The score so far is two dead, one hurt. (Two women who were killed in separate incidents last year, when the train was making trial runs.) It would seem that all three victims have only themselves to blame:

    https://www.local10.com/news/local/fort-lauderdale/train-strikes-man-in-fort-lauderdale

    At least two of the victims were white – one (((white))) – so we can’t blame this on NAMs. But we can blame the leftist “Americans should stop driving and take the train!” types.

    As an aside, the (((white))) guy’s friends (or family) picked a really unflattering picture to give to the media:

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  92. @European-American
    Looking at the comments on the Verge article relitigating the Damore firing for the umpteenth time, I notice, not for the first time, that anti-Damore opinions almost immediately take an insulting and vulgar form.

    I suppose it’s like « punch a Nazi »: there are some issues where it’s ok to cast away any pretense of civilized discussion because 1) the wrong side of the issue is so despicable and threatening to innocent people, and 2) the correct side of the issue is so obvious and widely agreed-upon that it’s fine to take off the gloves. One side is more powerful and feels free to use that power.

    I despair a bit that there is a large number of topics where polite and rational discussion is hard to find.

    I despair a bit that there is a large number of topics where polite and rational discussion is hard to find.

    Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    > Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. "wars" seems ridiculous. In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?

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  93. @Anonymous

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .
     
    That was way, way back when they weren't in power. The only people ever in favor of free speech are those who are not in power. Or those (like our Founding Fathers) who remember it because it was only yesterday.

    The people in power now have been in power for decades. They don't remember being on the outside. Paradoxically enough, an integral part of their mythology is being on the outside always and everywhere. This is how they can justify anything and everything they do to the rest of us.

    I'm frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It's almost as if you haven't been paying attention to this very blog.

    You are right. So many conservatives have hoped for so long that there would be one major law suit like Brown or Roe that would drastically change things

    But it won’t happen with our present judiciary and more important the colleges and law schools that produce them and the White hating politicians who appoint them

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  94. @Spud Boy
    I don't regret my decision to permanently ditch Google for internet search.

    It was the right decision.
    .
    .

    I don’t regret my decision to permanently ditch Google for internet search.

    It was the right decision.

    What do you use? I use StartPage sometimes, but Google still seems to have the best search engine. I would like to use something different; any recommendations would be appreciated.

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    • Replies: @Spud Boy
    I didn't want my post to sound like an ad for a search engine, but I use Bing.
    .
    .
    , @Unladen Swallow
    DuckDuckGo works pretty well.
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  95. @Hibernian
    "The notion that the CEO of a combination in restraint of trade is of the left is absurd."

    At least 50 years behind the times.

    It wasn’t true 50 years ago, either. Especially if the CEO didn’t start the company.

    Of course, they could have been “of the left” simply because they were interested in lining their own pockets. But I’m not interested in whether they did what they did out of genuine love in their hearts for the working class, or whatever the standard may be. Leftist is as leftist does.

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  96. @Achmed E. Newman
    Noah Webster can kiss my ass. I know what the word regret means in American English.

    "I regret the birth of Hillary Clinton." That doesn't sound correct to me. It should be "The birth of Hillary Clinton was egregious."

    Maybe that guy is not even an American ... wait a minute ..

    Sorry, David, I came off sounding mad, but was being somewhat facetious. I really don’t think, though, that the use of the word you quoted from Webster’s is active. I guess I should try to find an example, but I’ve been here a long time, and when I think about it, it still seems incorrect.

    “I regret that I didn’t put more clean-outs on that stretch of sewer line.” OK, fine.
    “I regret that my plumber didn’t install those clean-outs on the sewer line after I told him to, before he glued it all together.” It is not something I’d say, as it sounds silly. In the 2nd sentence, why would I feel regret. I would feel mild anger.

    This brings up a simlar thing, the apology on behalf of the one you have a disagreement with:

    “The management of Big Corp, Incorporated is sorry for our customers’ anger at having to deal with a 10-stage phone tree and then our customer care staff that are just finishing their TOEFL exams. We feel that our customers should be more tolerant on the phone. Again, we are sorry you customers are so angry. You will be receiving coupons for a personal pan pizza (blackout days may apply). – – Big Corp. Legal Dept. head Jackie Chiles.

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  97. Even Professor Scott Sumner, who claims to be far closer to former-President Obama’s world view and is quite hostile to the ideas you would find here wrote (http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=32604) that:

    4. Damore’s statement actually seems quite moderate and non-controversial. As far as I can tell, even noted Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker would agree with the gist of what he said.

    5. The (male) leadership at Google is extremely smart. I’m pretty sure that deep down they agree with Damore. Clearly he was fired to appease Google’s critics.

    7. This sort of left-wing PCism run amok is Donald Trump’s best friend—it converts moderates into conservatives, as people seek a supportive tribe.

    9. This sort of PCism seems to be spreading like a plague.

    The leadership at Google is smart in their domain. But they aren’t smart in seeing through this kind of left-wing PCism run amok. It seems like Google’s support for this kind of idiotic left-wing PCism is quite genuine and not a front at all. They are actually doubling down.

    I also noticed the magazine The Economist wrote a fiery op-ed doubling down: https://www.economist.com/news/international/21726276-last-week-newspaper-said-alphabets-boss-should-write-detailed-ringing-rebuttal

    OT: When entering my work office in Austin, I passed crowds of people wearing the pink vagina hats and presumably marching in the anti-Trump women’s march. I don’t have my Trump t-shirts with me or I might walk from my office over to the crowds to see for myself. As-is, I will stick with getting work done (non-political day job stuff) and helping with kids later.

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  98. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    I’m confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    I’m be willing to bet that the parents of a lot of South African farmers used to be pretty confident that future generations would laugh at the idea of a black run South Africa.

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  99. California is an at will employment state. All the case law Re politics is about firing for political activities such as running for office, working in a campaign, gathering signature to put a candidate or referendum on the ballot. Canvassing for votes or donations at work. Maybe even wearing a Vote For So & So button at work.

    Amore is not protected by the political exemption for fire at will because he did none of those things .

    Political opinions? All the case law is about activities, not opinions. And is discrimination political? There is not one political party that is against discrimination against White men.

    There was an anti affirmative action referendum, proposition 209 in the mid 90s in California. That was political. So people would be allowed to campaign for and against Propisition 209.

    But there was no anti discrimination referendum on the ballot when Damore worked at google .

    What is the definition of political? Generally speaking it refers to elections and elected officials.

    The other thing is did google consult with its attorneys before firing Damore? If google did, the attorneys probably advised google that his memo did not constitute a political activity or opinion.

    If google did not consult with attorneys, it means that the HR feminazi/minority cabal didn’t consider his letter political at all.

    Hostile work environment? The minorities at google will just claim Damore created a hostile work environment for them.

    I’ve been following discrimination against Whites lawsuits since Griggs in the early 1970s

    Don’t hope a White man will win this one. The most he can hope for is a decent settlement with an iron clad agreement that he never say a word about it.

    On the other hand, google has billions with which to defend this lawsuit. I’m sure every other vampire anti White capitalist company in the country will submit Friend of the Court Briefs asking the court to dismiss Damorr’s lawsuit as without merit.

    Any White person who thinks American business and capitalism is not as anti White as the postal service is blind.

    If TPTB had not wanted affirmative action for their employees affirmative action would not exist.

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  100. @Jack Hanson
    Response to your last paragraph:

    It seems to me there are a few SV types (Thiel, primarily among them) who understand that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn't good for anyone.

    I'm not sure where Musk falls on that spectrum, but I really do hope he gets that moon colony going soon with some urgency.

    that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn’t good for anyone.

    20%? I wish.

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  101. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5291373/Catherine-Zeta-Jones-defends-husband-Michael-Douglas.html

    And then they came for Michael Douglas…..

    If ever there was a caricature of the creepy, wormy older dirty old man trying to get the woman old enough to be his daughter…..

    This is like the accusations against Steven Seagal doing actress interviews in his bathrobe….who the hell is shocked?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Supposedly his father Kirk Douglas raped actress Natalie Wood when she was 15. And if you're old enough to remember her, she wasn't some starlet looking for an opening into the business. She was already a major, major star who said no no no all during her child actress years. But forcible rape is a lot different from unwelcome approaches
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  102. @Jack D
    The Left was never against McCarthyism. They were against being the TARGETS of McCarthyism. Remember that the Left is 100% who-whom. There are no 1st principles - the answer to any question depends on who is the "who" and who is the "whom".

    Legally this is problematic because Damore is going to try to use the whole structure of "civil rights" and "anti-discrimination" that the Left has built in the last 50 years to hoist them on their own petard.

    This is the way many women operate. How they feel about a situation depends on which of the parties they like more, whereas men are willing to adhere more to abstract principles.

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  103. Agree absolutely. From HPs founding in the 1930s to around the first internet boom SV was a genuinely technologically innovative place. Big technical advances in electronics, semiconductors, software paradigms, etc. Google was both the last of the old-breed SV companies and the first of the new model.

    The new breed are basically media and advertising companies that use technology to reach their audiences. Twiter, FB, etc. Or they take an extremely boring organizational headache and improve the situation by putting it online or appifying it. (Uber = taxi dispatch company in teh internetz! Amazon = Sears catalog on the internet! (in Seattle instead of SV, but whatevs) ) Obviously, these business provide a lot of value both to customers and to their shareholders. However they are not advancing technology; rather they are fulfilling the promise of technology that was developed at other places a long time ago. If you consider these companies tech companies, you have to consider companies like Disney tech companies as well. The visual effects in the new Star Wars movie took vast amounts of computing power to generate, for example.

    A lot of these media companies are natural monopolies due to network effects, however they are much, much more brittle than traditional natural monopolies like the telephone network, because they heavily rely on the power of their brand.

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    • Agree: TomSchmidt
    • Replies: @Alden
    Airnb

    Bed and Breakfast or room for rent signs around European train stations and before trains the main coach stop in town.

    Tinder, prostitute and lonely gay men postcards in phone booths, public bathrooms and convenience stores.


    Whatever near me The old phone book White pages.
    , @Anonymous
    Telcos were not really natural monopolies, they were de jure monopolies. Western Union built a wireline network but was not allowed to run voice over it, just data (dots and dashes, then 5 bit Baudot).

    Search engines, online shopping and social networking sites are "preference monopolies" reinforced by the modern capitalist impulse to walk away from businesses where they cannot be the John Holmes of the market.
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  104. @Jack Hanson
    Response to your last paragraph:

    It seems to me there are a few SV types (Thiel, primarily among them) who understand that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn't good for anyone.

    I'm not sure where Musk falls on that spectrum, but I really do hope he gets that moon colony going soon with some urgency.

    Mars colony, the Moon mission is not landing there, just a dry run to prove he can leave the Earth’s gravity and return back.

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  105. Just like J don’t belong in Ghandiland, Indians don’t belong in the USA.

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  106. @rogue-one
    >How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes

    Ruling classes have always been protected from criticism. This is why they are the ruling classes. Do you really think the liberal orthodoxy could survive 5 minutes of reasoned debate? (Watch the recent Peterson video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54) But by stifling debate and punishing dissenters, the ruling classes and their ideology are allowed to thrive.

    Kiri-Sute gone allowed Samurais to cut any commoner who insulted their honor. Lèse-majesté punished any perceived insult against the king and his family.

    In today's victimhood hierarchy, straight, white, men are at the bottom and and Kiri-Sute against them by those higher in victimhood totem pole is permissible.

    That was a great discussion and presentation of the facts by Jordan Peterson. The best part was the “gotcha” moment @ 23:02, when the gatekeeper host admitted defeat on his point about “hate” speech.

    If the Conservative party ever gets back in to power in Canada, they would be amiss not to use Jordan Peterson as a consultant to reform the university system.

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  107. Here is the pertinent law. Damore was not politically affiliated or engaging in political activities.

    He was an at will employee. He was fired because google didn’t like his letter.

    California Labor Code – LAB

    DIVISION 2. EMPLOYMENT REGULATION AND SUPERVISION [200 - 2699.5] ( Division 2 enacted by Stats. 1937, Ch. 90. )

    PART 3. PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES [920 - 1138.5] ( Part 3 enacted by Stats. 1937, Ch. 90. )

    CHAPTER 5. Political Affiliations [1101 - 1106] ( Chapter 5 enacted by Stats. 1937, Ch. 90. )

    1101.

    No employer shall make, adopt, or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy:

    (a) Forbidding or preventing employees from engaging or participating in politics or from becoming candidates for public office.

    (b) Controlling or directing, or tending to control or direct the political activities or affiliations of employees.
    (Enacted by Stats. 1937, Ch. 90.)

    Affiliations refers to party membership or friends and relatives party membership.

    Note Ca LAB says nothing about opinions

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  108. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rod1963
    These are all symptoms of a industry that has seen better days. Innovation has basically ceased and been replaced by a form of rent-seeking and mass manipulation for data mining purposes.

    IOW this is not Silicon Valley that spawned SGI, Sun, HP, that made real products.

    SGI, Sun, HP, that made real products.

    These are names from the domain of nostalgia.

    We still have Nvidia and Intel (the latter sometimes dropping the ball and going for marketing glitz and dubious innovation (dubiovation?) – opaque management engines and random number generators for one – more often that is healthy) and probably others that I don’t remember.

    A lot of good software is now “community driven”, which is a good, though the results are often klunky due to lack of skills or lack of good project management.

    Ceterum censeo, the whole investment into the JavaScript reinvented square wheel could be skunk at sea and nothing of value would be lost. Too many unchaperoned newcomers are getting dragged into this particular IT opiate crises. It’s become actually harmful. Elm is a nice language though.

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  109. @Anonymous

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .
     
    That was way, way back when they weren't in power. The only people ever in favor of free speech are those who are not in power. Or those (like our Founding Fathers) who remember it because it was only yesterday.

    The people in power now have been in power for decades. They don't remember being on the outside. Paradoxically enough, an integral part of their mythology is being on the outside always and everywhere. This is how they can justify anything and everything they do to the rest of us.

    I'm frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It's almost as if you haven't been paying attention to this very blog.

    I’m frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It’s almost as if you haven’t been paying attention to this very blog.

    The only way I say Damore prevailing is if Google decides the publicity black eye of making public information gained in discovery (trial, etc.) outweighs the cost of settling.

    The main thing that makes me optimistic in this case is that a lawyer was willing to take it on contingency. Though perhaps the publicity gained is enough of a benefit to offset the costs of a loss.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    The only publicity black eye against google for firing a White man who objected to discrimination against Whites is on sites like this on the internet. You won't find one print publication against google because it fired a White man who wrote about affirmative action.

    And if the case is settled, it will be reported for just one day in one sentence on the back pages. It won't make any news outlets except for Santa Clara and maybe, just maybe San Mateo counties.

    But google's defense is that the federal state and local governments all ordered me to discriminate against White men.
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  110. Here is an excellent explanation of California employees rights to engage in political activities and affiliations by an attorney who appears to do Plaintiff employee wrongful termination cases. Note he says nothing about opinions. At any rate, there is no political activity Re: affirmative action and discrimination going on in California right now. 21 years ago there was such a proposition (209) on the ballot.

    If google fired Damore for gathering signatures to put an anti affirmative action referendum on the ballot, google could not fire him because that would be a protected political activity. If Damore’s family member was running for office on a platform of abolishing affirmative action, google could not fire Damore because that is a political affiliation.

    But as an at will California employee, Damore can be fired because his letter that is totally and completely against google HR policies and hiring practices and not political. The defense against a discrimination against Whites lawsuit is that the company is just obeying federal, state, county and city laws mandating discrimination against Whites.

    But nothing political about affirmative action going on right now.

    On behalf of Hennig Ruiz Law Firm posted in California Employment Law on Thursday, June 22, 2017.

    Can You Be Fired for Expressing Political Beliefs in California?

    Heated political debates between friends are one thing, but certain political activities at work may very well get you fired. You may be thinking, “Well, what about my First Amendment rights?” While all American citizens have a right to free speech, the Bill of Rights mainly applies to protect against government action – but not action by corporations.

    Nevertheless, there are certain laws in California that protect private sector employees from being discriminated against due to their political activities and affiliations. This article will help you understand your rights when it comes to expressing your political views in the private California workplace.

    Expressing Political Beliefs in the California Workplace: Understanding Your Rights

    Political Activities in the California Workplace

    A common misconception is that private sector employees in California have the right to exercise free speech at work, including expressing political views. This is partially false. California law bans private employers from discriminating against workers due to their political views, affiliations, or activities. However, there are exceptions. For instance, if you participate in a political activity that creates a conflict of interest with your employer’s business model, your job could potentially be on the line. Additionally, if you are not able to get your work done due to your on-the-clock political activities, it could be perfectly legal for your employer to demote or fire you if they see you as a liability.

    Both federal and California law also protect your right to discuss labor issues – even in a non-union workplace. This includes conversing with coworkers regarding wages, working conditions, and expressing your preference for candidates who support favorable labor issues such as higher wages for hourly workers.

    Political Activities Outside of Working Hours

    California law also prohibits employers from adopting any “rule, regulation, or policy” that bars employees from running for public office, or participating in politics outside of work. However, if you decide to run for office or attend a protest outside of working hours, your employer could legally terminate you if these activities distract you from work to a point that your job performance suffers.

    Political Affiliations in the California Workplace

    While it may be legal for you to express your political affiliations and preferences while working in California, there are times when it could be illegal for your employer to do so. For instance, if your supervisor tries to control your and other employees’ political affiliations or activities by using threats of firing or demoting if you do not engage in certain political activities or actions, this could be considered unlawful behavior.

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  111. Here at Goolag we oppose the free expression of ideas and offer the kind of narrow results you can expect from a Totalitarian Police State like the Soviet Union. Here in The Stone Age of Third World labor we vehemently oppose Free Speech and alternate opinions and hope everyone with some marginal ability to use technology and read at Third Grade Elementary School Level will take advantage of our narrow and biased results that purposely censor alternate opinions.

    Goolag: The Search Engine of Exclusion and Censorship

    * Approved for use by The Chinese Communist Party and Shariah Compliant States.

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  112. @res

    I’m frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It’s almost as if you haven’t been paying attention to this very blog.
     
    The only way I say Damore prevailing is if Google decides the publicity black eye of making public information gained in discovery (trial, etc.) outweighs the cost of settling.

    The main thing that makes me optimistic in this case is that a lawyer was willing to take it on contingency. Though perhaps the publicity gained is enough of a benefit to offset the costs of a loss.

    The only publicity black eye against google for firing a White man who objected to discrimination against Whites is on sites like this on the internet. You won’t find one print publication against google because it fired a White man who wrote about affirmative action.

    And if the case is settled, it will be reported for just one day in one sentence on the back pages. It won’t make any news outlets except for Santa Clara and maybe, just maybe San Mateo counties.

    But google’s defense is that the federal state and local governments all ordered me to discriminate against White men.

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  113. @Simple Song
    Agree absolutely. From HPs founding in the 1930s to around the first internet boom SV was a genuinely technologically innovative place. Big technical advances in electronics, semiconductors, software paradigms, etc. Google was both the last of the old-breed SV companies and the first of the new model.

    The new breed are basically media and advertising companies that use technology to reach their audiences. Twiter, FB, etc. Or they take an extremely boring organizational headache and improve the situation by putting it online or appifying it. (Uber = taxi dispatch company in teh internetz! Amazon = Sears catalog on the internet! (in Seattle instead of SV, but whatevs) ) Obviously, these business provide a lot of value both to customers and to their shareholders. However they are not advancing technology; rather they are fulfilling the promise of technology that was developed at other places a long time ago. If you consider these companies tech companies, you have to consider companies like Disney tech companies as well. The visual effects in the new Star Wars movie took vast amounts of computing power to generate, for example.

    A lot of these media companies are natural monopolies due to network effects, however they are much, much more brittle than traditional natural monopolies like the telephone network, because they heavily rely on the power of their brand.

    Airnb

    Bed and Breakfast or room for rent signs around European train stations and before trains the main coach stop in town.

    Tinder, prostitute and lonely gay men postcards in phone booths, public bathrooms and convenience stores.

    Whatever near me The old phone book White pages.

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  114. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground.

    This is the continuing mystery. The “strong, independent woman” we were promised back in say 1970, has yet to show up.

    Instead, we apparently need Victorian sexual mores–for men only–to protect the “virtue” of drunken sluts, who hookup with drunken cads and don’t feel good about it in the morning (or anytime in the next few months, if he doesn’t call).

    And we must protect the feelings of these “strong independent” women in tech, from any suggestion that maybe just maybe they aren’t surrounded by a supportive sisterhood, their “sisters” are just way less interested in working on things, than working with people.

    We’re approaching 50 years of “liberation” … and these “strong independent women” keep not showing up.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    We’re approaching 50 years of “liberation” … and these “strong independent women” keep not showing up.
     
    OTOH, if you want to get laid PDQ, simply find a table of women, sit yourself down and announce to no one in particular, "You know, I just can't believe how incredibly strong and independent women are!"

    They'll be on you like the proverbial white on rice. You'll be fighting them off and even better, they'll be fighting each other for you.
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  115. @Neoconned
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5291373/Catherine-Zeta-Jones-defends-husband-Michael-Douglas.html

    And then they came for Michael Douglas.....

    If ever there was a caricature of the creepy, wormy older dirty old man trying to get the woman old enough to be his daughter.....

    This is like the accusations against Steven Seagal doing actress interviews in his bathrobe....who the hell is shocked?

    Supposedly his father Kirk Douglas raped actress Natalie Wood when she was 15. And if you’re old enough to remember her, she wasn’t some starlet looking for an opening into the business. She was already a major, major star who said no no no all during her child actress years. But forcible rape is a lot different from unwelcome approaches

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  116. OT:

    Twitter releases shocking information. During the election, Russian bots reached . . . 677,000 people! On a platform with 330 million users.

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  117. @guest
    You are severely confused. Disallowing Peterson the opportunity to speak at Google would be a free speech issue from Peterson's side, not Google's. Google would be asserting property rights or association rights, which have nothing to do with Citizen's United.

    None of this has anything to do with the Damore case, which is about labor laws, not free speech.

    Free speech only applies to government restraint of speech. A business can restrain speech all it wants. For instance, when I was young men were free to make really crude vulgar remarks about women.

    Companies now prohibit it. It is not restraint of speech. Its just a way of making the workplace more civilized. For a while when the gay movement really got going, gays imposed their love affairs and views on fellow co workers. That was construed sex harassement. So HRs ordered it stopped.
    Its not free speech for a gay co worker to tell you all about the 5 guys he had sex with last night.

    It’s not free speech for a co worker to tell you he’d like to fuck you.

    Type free speech in to the work place for expert explanations.

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  118. What else can she say ?

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  119. Sundar Pichai said last August:

    “To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK.”

    Not OK! Ok Susan?

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering? Sundar Pichai suggests they are as capable as men, yet he acts as if women are less suited, otherwise engineering team gender parity would be a fact at Google. And if he believed, it Google would hire only women until they made up half their engineering teams. Susan Wojcicki also knows women are less suited for YouTube engineering teams. So again we have, CEOs spouting Leftist crap who fail to act on what they say they believe. Any intelligent middle school boy can see they are hypocrites.

    That is not ok.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?
     
    Yes, no doubt, and the same for computer software development and programming. I just don't think there are many engineers and engineering teams at Google. It's all computer people. The whole paragraph reads wrong for me, as I'm sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.

    * Not that there's anything wrong with that ... no, not at all.
    , @Thomm

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?
     
    Of course they are less suited. Under a truly free market, about 10% of engineers will be women, and almost all of those will be Asian women. Even there, easier aspects of engineering (like test engineering) is where they will go, and certainly not in any advanced design or architecture positions.
    , @Massimo Heitor

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?

     

    The observed gender disparity is probably due to difference in interests rather than some raw innate ability.

    Men are much more likely to tinker with technology on their own without external pressures such as a school/job/parent. That's not raw ability at all, that's just interest, but sometimes a tinkering hobby eventually develops into a valuable skill. Many times, tinkering hobbies develop into nothing. No one is envious of the tinkering, but people are envious of the success that it may lead to.

    So, yes, while that question is phrased in an offensive manner: women are less biologically suited to certain types of STEM work because they have less innate interest.
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  120. @leftlawyer
    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn't be fired for what they say .

    Damore’s letter does not fit any definition of political activities or affiliations. There is nothing in CA Labor Law 1102 about political beliefs.

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  121. @guest
    I kinda thought the argument would be that the firing couldn't be political because they didn't catch Damore carrying a Republican Party card, or something.

    You are right in that the firing is not political because no political parties, candidates, elections or referendums were involved, just his personal opinion about something that is not defined as political by Ca Labor Law code 1102.

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    • Replies: @guest
    But it was political, obviously. In a common sense way, if not in a way covered by California law. Who hasn't heard of "gender politics?"
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  122. @ScarletNumber
    I'm sure Google will argue that Damore's memo wasn't political per se.

    According to California Labor Law code 1102, his opinions and the letter are not political.

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  123. OT: in pussy hat news, women held rallies today on various safe spaces (like college campuses) to celebrate last year’s women’s march, and some women wore their hats! All the usual slogans that lost them the last presidential election were in effect. It’s looking good for the midterms.

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  124. @NoWeltschmerz
    Google will never be all women and that's not the goal for reasons that Sergey and Larry well understand. It's not that they don't want men, it's that Google wants the right kind of men who share the company's politics/opinions or are at least willing to keep their mouth's shut.

    You may be prematurely ker-chinging. The fact that the CEO is commenting on pending litigation tells you something. Either they don't think they will lose (a real possibility) or they are more intent on sending current and future employees a message while simultaneously virtue signalling. If you look at Google's financials you'll see that there's nothing Damore could realistically win that would in any way harm Google's pocketbook. The media supports them and they are a financial behemoth, so they will come through this unbowed. If Damore doesn't settle and he were to win his case and Google doesn't appeal or they lose on appeal, Silicon Valley might take some notice but they are clever enough to re-adjust their policies and/or procedures to prevent this situation from occurring in the future without actually changing the politics and environment of the company.

    Mr. Damore seems like a smart guy who exhibited some courage in a hostile environment. I have mixed emotions about the government telling companies who they can hire and fire, but that's the world we live in, so I'd like to see James Damore get compensated for his firing as the chances of him gaining work within his chosen field are not good. Nevertheless, it's a mistake to think this is going to be a watershed case.

    Elegantly argued.

    Thanks for the great reply.

    Are we sure that Damore won’t inspire a white male #MeToo?

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    • Replies: @NoWeltschmerz
    Thank you.

    We could try #MeToo, but if we did, we'd be mocked by late night TV hosts, excoriated by the press, banned by Twitter and then lose our current jobs to boot.
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  125. @Anon
    1) Damore and the plaintiffs have set up a page to fund legal expenses. https://www.fundedjustice.com/d1JmT3. While their lawyers are likely taking this on contingency, it is a powerful talking point to say a “significant portion of legal expenses were funded by small donations from individuals.” It pre-emptively deflates some narratives that the Left and Media will attempt.

    2) Google is scared of discovery. The internal messages released in the complaint are damning. It is hard to think the private emails will be less so. A major wild card is third class of plaintiffs, the unnamed group that alleges discrimination in hiring. There are likely many cases where a white male with several years experience is rejected as a poor fit, while NAM / woman with marginal experience is hired.

    3) Shocking that no one is talking about the blacklisting aspect of this case. If another employer were checking references, it would be illegal for a Google representative to mention any of this in a background check. But somehow it is excusable for Google execs — sitting atop the most powerful search company — to comment publically on this, effectively blacklisting Damore from his industry. Regardless of the political leanings of Damore, there is an employee rights aspect that has been ignored by the media, who has chosen to cheer for Goliath, uh I mean, Google.

    It’s illegal in California to check for felony records, but I think that’s about all with the exception of credit ratings for people who handle money.

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  126. @oddsbodkins
    That's the kind of offer Damore should make to Google in exchange for dropping the suit. Invite them to deliver the dream of coding equality at their expense. The trick being how to word it so they can't weasel around it.

    It’s my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.

    Then all the liberals can have rejoice that the big bad wolf of merit hiring has been defeated once again.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    It’s my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.
     
    That's not going to happen.
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  127. @oddsbodkins
    That will be most interesting. Unfortunately, there was a lot of time between firing and lawsuit to go about deleting emails and chat logs.

    deleting emails are hard. other people have copies and they may not want to go to jail just to cover up for some heartless corporation.

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  128. @Marty
    Folks, don't you love how, whatever the issue, Jack always knew it all along, and is never surprised by anythng? But really, LeftLawyer raises an important point - where are the great trial lawyers? Man, if there was ever a case for Joe Cotchett or Gary Olimpia or Cliff Palefsky, this is it. But no, turns out they're terrified of women, and it's more important to protect Valerie Plame from Scooter Libby than all men from the techverse.

    Aren’t most of the great trail attorneys liberal men?

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  129. @Colleen Pater
    nah no rule of law anymore

    In my opinion, the State and Federal Attorneys General are where all the abuse occurs. They are basically like that device controlled by Capt. Kirk’s mistress in the alternate universe Star Trek episode.

    A dishonest Attorney General can take out any one or any thing. An unsubstantiated charge against a fortune 500 company destroys the company. No trial no due process nothing. A vendetta against an individual destroys the individual. The AG has unlimited resources and no punishment for any overreach or even ethical lapse. At the very worse a conviction is overturned and the AG is free to bring more charges.

    Hillary was beyond legal reach because her husband could meet privately with the Attorney General of the US – that’s near unlimited power.

    Google has nowhere near that kind of power. The AG (Sessions) _could_ bring Google’s capitalization to a few thousand dollars with little effort and no repercussion.

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  130. @DevOps Dad
    Sundar Pichai said last August:

    "To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK."

    Not OK! Ok Susan?

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering? Sundar Pichai suggests they are as capable as men, yet he acts as if women are less suited, otherwise engineering team gender parity would be a fact at Google. And if he believed, it Google would hire only women until they made up half their engineering teams. Susan Wojcicki also knows women are less suited for YouTube engineering teams. So again we have, CEOs spouting Leftist crap who fail to act on what they say they believe. Any intelligent middle school boy can see they are hypocrites.

    That is not ok.

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?

    Yes, no doubt, and the same for computer software development and programming. I just don’t think there are many engineers and engineering teams at Google. It’s all computer people. The whole paragraph reads wrong for me, as I’m sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.

    * Not that there’s anything wrong with that … no, not at all.

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    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    I’m sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.
     
    Why? I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an "engineer" is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.

    I have an engineering degree from a top ranked "public ivy" university, I do software development work for a living, and while I don't choose to use the label "engineering" to refer to that type of work myself, I don't see what's wrong with that.
    , @Anonymous
    Computer science and electrical engineering were treated as intimately intertwined disciplines by colleges for decades and indeed it is difficult to imagine a modern EE grad who would not be expected to have a lot of CS and be able to write code effectively. But yes, strictly speaking, they are entirely separate fields. If you implemented computers with hydraulics, fluidics, or mechanics entirely the CS should be the same. In practice though, those technologies never quite worked out.
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  131. @Mr. Anon

    I despair a bit that there is a large number of topics where polite and rational discussion is hard to find.
     
    Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.

    > Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. “wars” seems ridiculous. In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. “wars” seems ridiculous.
     
    They are cultural wars. When the other side considers you to be an enemy, then - yes - it is a war. And like the hot kind, you don't win them by being a gentleman. The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don't seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.

    In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?
     
    Let's hope we find a way of fighting and winning the cultural war before it devolves into some other kind.
    , @guest
    If it helps, the Culture War goes beyond the internet. It's everywhere.

    "War" is hyperbolic. But it's conventional to refer to things which aren't war as war.

    The term's origin is in the German "Kulturkampf" from the times of Bismarck. It was really more like "culture-struggle," though "kampf" derives from the Latin for "battlefield," I think.

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  132. @Anon
    1) Damore and the plaintiffs have set up a page to fund legal expenses. https://www.fundedjustice.com/d1JmT3. While their lawyers are likely taking this on contingency, it is a powerful talking point to say a “significant portion of legal expenses were funded by small donations from individuals.” It pre-emptively deflates some narratives that the Left and Media will attempt.

    2) Google is scared of discovery. The internal messages released in the complaint are damning. It is hard to think the private emails will be less so. A major wild card is third class of plaintiffs, the unnamed group that alleges discrimination in hiring. There are likely many cases where a white male with several years experience is rejected as a poor fit, while NAM / woman with marginal experience is hired.

    3) Shocking that no one is talking about the blacklisting aspect of this case. If another employer were checking references, it would be illegal for a Google representative to mention any of this in a background check. But somehow it is excusable for Google execs — sitting atop the most powerful search company — to comment publically on this, effectively blacklisting Damore from his industry. Regardless of the political leanings of Damore, there is an employee rights aspect that has been ignored by the media, who has chosen to cheer for Goliath, uh I mean, Google.

    > Damore and the plaintiffs have set up a page to fund legal expenses.
    > https://www.fundedjustice.com/d1JmT3

    Contributed. Thanks for the link.

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  133. @DevOps Dad
    Sundar Pichai said last August:

    "To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK."

    Not OK! Ok Susan?

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering? Sundar Pichai suggests they are as capable as men, yet he acts as if women are less suited, otherwise engineering team gender parity would be a fact at Google. And if he believed, it Google would hire only women until they made up half their engineering teams. Susan Wojcicki also knows women are less suited for YouTube engineering teams. So again we have, CEOs spouting Leftist crap who fail to act on what they say they believe. Any intelligent middle school boy can see they are hypocrites.

    That is not ok.

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?

    Of course they are less suited. Under a truly free market, about 10% of engineers will be women, and almost all of those will be Asian women. Even there, easier aspects of engineering (like test engineering) is where they will go, and certainly not in any advanced design or architecture positions.

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  134. @utu
    In the meantime OT:

    The biggest mystery in mathematics: Shinichi Mochizuki and the impenetrable proof
    https://www.nature.com/news/the-biggest-mystery-in-mathematics-shinichi-mochizuki-and-the-impenetrable-proof-1.18509

    Three years on, Mochizuki's proof remains in mathematical limbo — neither debunked nor accepted by the wider community. Mochizuki has estimated that it would take a maths graduate student about 10 years to be able to understand his work, and Fesenko believes that it would take even an expert in arithmetic geometry some 500 hours. So far, only four mathematicians say that they have been able to read the entire proof.
     
    Inter-universal Teichmüller theory
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-universal_Teichmüller_theory

    Shin M. seems a little too coy here. I’d think he would be a little more interested in explaining the thing.

    Lieven Le Bruyn found it to be highly self referential, and suggested that it might be a big middle finger to mathematics.

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  135. @Mr. Anon

    I don’t regret my decision to permanently ditch Google for internet search.

    It was the right decision.
     
    What do you use? I use StartPage sometimes, but Google still seems to have the best search engine. I would like to use something different; any recommendations would be appreciated.

    I didn’t want my post to sound like an ad for a search engine, but I use Bing.
    .
    .

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  136. @BEER/ we're all going to die
    Is Damore gonna win big or what? If so, what changes, if any, could a big Damore victory and payment from Goolag bring? I've partially assumed he'll win. Long term black pilled on the WQ and RQ too. Tech titans have already won, white man.

    Is Damore gonna win big or what?

    If so, how high do you think he’ll have to appeal it before he does?

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  137. @Intelligent Dasein
    These people just make me sick in a way I'm having trouble articulating. When I think about the Indian billionaire and the pampered Wojcicki sister gloating over the firing of hapless Jimmy "The Schnoz" Damore because his mildly worded memo touched upon some truths anathema to these phony female CEOs, it's hard to even decide where to vomit.

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground. I'm confident that a future generation will be able to laugh at the self-parodying nature of this material, but we who have to live through it should resent it and oppose it any way we can.

    Well, part of its that the right’s tech people like Peter Theil and Palmer Luckey could start dozens of tech starts but they don’t. Theil has recently made billions from bitcoin. Luckey spent his money on a non tech business in Huntington Beach. Luckey founded Oculus Rift, the VR headset company and sold it to Facebook. He is still worth millions and could start some tech start ups for conservatives but he doesn’t.

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  138. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Simple Song
    Agree absolutely. From HPs founding in the 1930s to around the first internet boom SV was a genuinely technologically innovative place. Big technical advances in electronics, semiconductors, software paradigms, etc. Google was both the last of the old-breed SV companies and the first of the new model.

    The new breed are basically media and advertising companies that use technology to reach their audiences. Twiter, FB, etc. Or they take an extremely boring organizational headache and improve the situation by putting it online or appifying it. (Uber = taxi dispatch company in teh internetz! Amazon = Sears catalog on the internet! (in Seattle instead of SV, but whatevs) ) Obviously, these business provide a lot of value both to customers and to their shareholders. However they are not advancing technology; rather they are fulfilling the promise of technology that was developed at other places a long time ago. If you consider these companies tech companies, you have to consider companies like Disney tech companies as well. The visual effects in the new Star Wars movie took vast amounts of computing power to generate, for example.

    A lot of these media companies are natural monopolies due to network effects, however they are much, much more brittle than traditional natural monopolies like the telephone network, because they heavily rely on the power of their brand.

    Telcos were not really natural monopolies, they were de jure monopolies. Western Union built a wireline network but was not allowed to run voice over it, just data (dots and dashes, then 5 bit Baudot).

    Search engines, online shopping and social networking sites are “preference monopolies” reinforced by the modern capitalist impulse to walk away from businesses where they cannot be the John Holmes of the market.

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  139. @Cortes
    Elegantly argued.

    Thanks for the great reply.

    Are we sure that Damore won’t inspire a white male #MeToo?

    Thank you.

    We could try #MeToo, but if we did, we’d be mocked by late night TV hosts, excoriated by the press, banned by Twitter and then lose our current jobs to boot.

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  140. @Achmed E. Newman

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?
     
    Yes, no doubt, and the same for computer software development and programming. I just don't think there are many engineers and engineering teams at Google. It's all computer people. The whole paragraph reads wrong for me, as I'm sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.

    * Not that there's anything wrong with that ... no, not at all.

    I’m sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.

    Why? I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an “engineer” is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.

    I have an engineering degree from a top ranked “public ivy” university, I do software development work for a living, and while I don’t choose to use the label “engineering” to refer to that type of work myself, I don’t see what’s wrong with that.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    What's wrong with that is that it's not engineering. A guy who installs and fixes piping and valves is not an electrician and he shouldn't claim to be.

    BTW, you are still an engineer, as I think of it like the way the Marines do. You will always be an engineer, Mr. Heitor, but you say you are making a living differently.
    , @ScarletNumber

    I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an “engineer” is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.
     
    Prestige has nothing to do with it. If you have an engineering degree from Fairleigh Dickinson University, you are an engineer.
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  141. I’ve linked to this before, but here’s a feminist ex-Google engineering manager on the impossibility of having population proportionality for the sexes:

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    It’s not like I wasn’t trying to hire women. But I was working with a candidate pool composed of 90% men. Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did.

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far. We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far. We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.
     
    Given that already there aren't enough white kids around to provide the correct educational context for POC children, will something similar happen wrt the sexes? I hope it's obvious that I'm kidding. OTOH, trans progress continues apace.
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  142. @Alden
    You are right in that the firing is not political because no political parties, candidates, elections or referendums were involved, just his personal opinion about something that is not defined as political by Ca Labor Law code 1102.

    But it was political, obviously. In a common sense way, if not in a way covered by California law. Who hasn’t heard of “gender politics?”

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    • Replies: @Alden
    That’s what I wrote. Damore ‘s memo doesn’t fit the legal definition of political activities in the workplace according to the applicable CA code.

    That’s all that matters, not ordinary usage.

    But in anti White affirmative action discrimination cases, the law doesn’t matter at all, whether it’s a state or federal case.
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  143. @Jack Hanson
    Response to your last paragraph:

    It seems to me there are a few SV types (Thiel, primarily among them) who understand that a future Earth with a 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs isn't good for anyone.

    I'm not sure where Musk falls on that spectrum, but I really do hope he gets that moon colony going soon with some urgency.

    I don’t want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

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    • Replies: @Thomm

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
     
    That would be great for me, but you are forgetting that White Nationalists are part of this low-IQ group.
    , @Mr. Anon

    I don’t want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
     
    Yes, conservatives/traditionalists should not - by now - think that simply ceding real-estate is the answer. Isn't it bad enough that we have almost completely been chased out of California? Must we also be chased off the Earth? Earth is the California of the Solar System - the nicest, most pleasant real-estate with the best weather.
    , @Mr. Anon
    It's amusing that commenter Thomm, who is innumerate and a fan of TV wrestling and other pop-culture trash, imagines himself to be part of some kind of cognitive elite.
    , @anonymous coward

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
     
    That would be the most expensive and ineffectual ethnic cleansing in human history. (Guys, this is exactly why you keep losing.)
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  144. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?
     
    Yes, no doubt, and the same for computer software development and programming. I just don't think there are many engineers and engineering teams at Google. It's all computer people. The whole paragraph reads wrong for me, as I'm sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.

    * Not that there's anything wrong with that ... no, not at all.

    Computer science and electrical engineering were treated as intimately intertwined disciplines by colleges for decades and indeed it is difficult to imagine a modern EE grad who would not be expected to have a lot of CS and be able to write code effectively. But yes, strictly speaking, they are entirely separate fields. If you implemented computers with hydraulics, fluidics, or mechanics entirely the CS should be the same. In practice though, those technologies never quite worked out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Right you are. I think that all types of engineers that had to do complex analytical work used to write more code back in the day than today in fact (well, you can't go back too far), as the spreadsheets, Matlab, and lots of other software tools were not around. There was FORTRAN and C, but FORTRAN was for the big number crunching.
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  145. @European-American
    > Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. "wars" seems ridiculous. In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. “wars” seems ridiculous.

    They are cultural wars. When the other side considers you to be an enemy, then – yes – it is a war. And like the hot kind, you don’t win them by being a gentleman. The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don’t seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.

    In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?

    Let’s hope we find a way of fighting and winning the cultural war before it devolves into some other kind.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    Yes, let’s hope we can find a way. Because on the opposite side of this so-called war are many of my friends, family members, colleagues, doctors, scientists, and so on. I’d rather be able to resolve these differences in a civil way.
    , @AndrewR
    Nah, let's get it over with. It's almost guaranteed to turn hot anyway, and even if it's not guaranteed, it would be nice to be permanently free of these people.
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  146. @Harry Baldwin
    I don't want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    That would be great for me, but you are forgetting that White Nationalists are part of this low-IQ group.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Right.
    Pierce, Oliver, Rockwell, all low IQ.
    , @Mr. Anon

    "Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?"

    That would be great for me,...........
     
    Why? Do you fancy living on the Moon? You've never struck me as anything other than an insipid dullard.
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  147. @Harry Baldwin
    I don't want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    I don’t want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    Yes, conservatives/traditionalists should not – by now – think that simply ceding real-estate is the answer. Isn’t it bad enough that we have almost completely been chased out of California? Must we also be chased off the Earth? Earth is the California of the Solar System – the nicest, most pleasant real-estate with the best weather.

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  148. @nebulafox
    If the political correctness crowd had that kind of political intelligence and common sense, they wouldn't have gotten into this mess in the first place. What makes me laugh is how unnecessary this all was.

    You just fire Damore, what can he do? Gripe over a beer with his buddies. It isn't as though people will care. You'll have made the point clear within the company-you decisively get what you want. But, for some reason, getting what they wanted simply wasn't enough. They needed to sack Carthage and sow the land with salt, out of what can only be interpreted as ideologically fueled animus. So, you attempt to humiliate him and destroy any chance of him getting employment in tech ever again? He's left with little incentive not to sue, he's all of a sudden got plenty of conservative, increasingly anti-Silicon Valley lawyers who'd be happy to help him, and the result is a media spectacle in which Google has little chance of pulling off a long-term strategic victory, regardless of what happens tactically. They have massively overestimated their standing with the American public: the warning signs should have been there with Trump's election, but they didn't get the message.

    (One interesting dynamic in the Republican Party: as the face of big business increasingly becomes the tech titans, one wonders how much pro-oligarchic/monopoly sentiments will have much of a future among right-wing intellectuals.)

    In Michael Crichton’s novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the “window seat:” not firing, but permanent suspension of any hope of prestige or advancement. You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
    You would think that with all the Mensaucity of the Google meritocratic leadership they would have considered a subtle self-containing solution like — naw, let’s just publicly fire him without a legal basis and then hope everyone else is as self-righteous as we are.

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein

    In Michael Crichton’s novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the “window seat:”
     
    That scene in the movie which showed Ishihara sitting by the airplane window as Sean Connery explained the concept of the window seat, filled me with mortal dread not unlike the last page of Squirrel Nutkin. I understood it was a fate worse than death and I never wanted to be that guy.
    , @guest
    "Everyone else" barely exists to them, except insofar as we contribute to their profits. I'm sure in deciding to fire him they thought of nothing but the "culture" of screeching SJW harpies who might have won their scalps if they hesitated.

    They are them, but also fear them like the lone settler fears the Comanche.

    , @Anonymous

    You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
     
    I can't tell you how much fun it is reading your writing. As if your writing weren't brilliant and entertaining enough, there's your lucid, trenchant thinking behind it. Since I'm anonymous I can throw this your way without embarrassing myself too much :)
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  149. @David
    According to Webster's 2nd, "To remember with sorrow or grief... To have dissatisfaction, misgivings, or distress of mind concerning." It specifies nothing about only regretting one's own actions or failures and it gives as an example of usage "regret the election of" someone. There's also nothing about the etymology, "to weep," that would support your view.

    Well, one certainly can’t regret something that is happening now.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Says you! I regret typing this.
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  150. @Colleen Pater
    nah no rule of law anymore

    Either way, this is a loss for Google. If Damore wins it will be because it was proven that Google was anti white male. That is hard on a corporate image that prides itself on hating discrimination. If Damore loses, it will be because of blatant political correctness which will probably make Google look even worse. Rather than being a company that liberates people it is one that crushes anyone who gets in their way. The money from any settlement is inconsequential.

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  151. @Massimo Heitor

    I’m sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.
     
    Why? I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an "engineer" is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.

    I have an engineering degree from a top ranked "public ivy" university, I do software development work for a living, and while I don't choose to use the label "engineering" to refer to that type of work myself, I don't see what's wrong with that.

    What’s wrong with that is that it’s not engineering. A guy who installs and fixes piping and valves is not an electrician and he shouldn’t claim to be.

    BTW, you are still an engineer, as I think of it like the way the Marines do. You will always be an engineer, Mr. Heitor, but you say you are making a living differently.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    This was the most famous American engineer who ever lived.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcB9wlmnDPY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJKCWaiYUP4
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  152. @Anonymous
    Computer science and electrical engineering were treated as intimately intertwined disciplines by colleges for decades and indeed it is difficult to imagine a modern EE grad who would not be expected to have a lot of CS and be able to write code effectively. But yes, strictly speaking, they are entirely separate fields. If you implemented computers with hydraulics, fluidics, or mechanics entirely the CS should be the same. In practice though, those technologies never quite worked out.

    Right you are. I think that all types of engineers that had to do complex analytical work used to write more code back in the day than today in fact (well, you can’t go back too far), as the spreadsheets, Matlab, and lots of other software tools were not around. There was FORTRAN and C, but FORTRAN was for the big number crunching.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    There was FORTRAN and C, but FORTRAN was for the big number crunching.
     
    There was FORTRAN and COBOL. FORTRAN was for number crunching and COBOL was for business applications. C came later.

    APL was around, and popular for a while, though arcane in its notation and array-oriented structure, was pretty good for math-y applications but required you to think very differently from the other two. In the recession of 1982, when I got my first regular corporate job, my listing APL as a skill got me a lot of respect from the interviewer, who knew about it.
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  153. @DevOps Dad
    Sundar Pichai said last August:

    "To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK."

    Not OK! Ok Susan?

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering? Sundar Pichai suggests they are as capable as men, yet he acts as if women are less suited, otherwise engineering team gender parity would be a fact at Google. And if he believed, it Google would hire only women until they made up half their engineering teams. Susan Wojcicki also knows women are less suited for YouTube engineering teams. So again we have, CEOs spouting Leftist crap who fail to act on what they say they believe. Any intelligent middle school boy can see they are hypocrites.

    That is not ok.

    But are women less biologically suited for engineering?

    The observed gender disparity is probably due to difference in interests rather than some raw innate ability.

    Men are much more likely to tinker with technology on their own without external pressures such as a school/job/parent. That’s not raw ability at all, that’s just interest, but sometimes a tinkering hobby eventually develops into a valuable skill. Many times, tinkering hobbies develop into nothing. No one is envious of the tinkering, but people are envious of the success that it may lead to.

    So, yes, while that question is phrased in an offensive manner: women are less biologically suited to certain types of STEM work because they have less innate interest.

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  154. @Thomm

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
     
    That would be great for me, but you are forgetting that White Nationalists are part of this low-IQ group.

    Right.
    Pierce, Oliver, Rockwell, all low IQ.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Debating via anecdote is precisely what proves that WNs have extremely low IQs. They adopt debate tactics that negros use.

    By your logic, all black people are as smart as Thomas Sowell.

    You, as a WN, have a demonstrably low IQ.

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  155. @Anonymous
    Right.
    Pierce, Oliver, Rockwell, all low IQ.

    Debating via anecdote is precisely what proves that WNs have extremely low IQs. They adopt debate tactics that negros use.

    By your logic, all black people are as smart as Thomas Sowell.

    You, as a WN, have a demonstrably low IQ.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I know more WNs than you do and while a few aren't the brightest tools in the shed, on average they are smarter than average.
    , @Mr. Anon
    Really? And what statistics do you have to prove your contention.? Provide them, you prating nitwit. Otherwise, you are just arguing by anecdote.

    By the way, how much math have you had? Care to tell us, or does it embarrass you?
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  156. @Mr. Anon

    I don’t regret my decision to permanently ditch Google for internet search.

    It was the right decision.
     
    What do you use? I use StartPage sometimes, but Google still seems to have the best search engine. I would like to use something different; any recommendations would be appreciated.

    DuckDuckGo works pretty well.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Thanks. I'll try it. I've tried Bing, as commenter SpudBoy recommended, but it never seemed as good as Google.
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  157. @Achmed E. Newman
    Right you are. I think that all types of engineers that had to do complex analytical work used to write more code back in the day than today in fact (well, you can't go back too far), as the spreadsheets, Matlab, and lots of other software tools were not around. There was FORTRAN and C, but FORTRAN was for the big number crunching.

    There was FORTRAN and C, but FORTRAN was for the big number crunching.

    There was FORTRAN and COBOL. FORTRAN was for number crunching and COBOL was for business applications. C came later.

    APL was around, and popular for a while, though arcane in its notation and array-oriented structure, was pretty good for math-y applications but required you to think very differently from the other two. In the recession of 1982, when I got my first regular corporate job, my listing APL as a skill got me a lot of respect from the interviewer, who knew about it.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I worked for a guy who was misguided enough to listen to a hoodoo writer who advocated learning and using Adobe PostScript as a general purpose programming language. Bad idea for a lot of reasons. But he got good at coming up with simple, effective graphics in raw PostScript.

    APL was one of those things, like Forth, (which was the basis for PostScript) that did certain things really well but died out because it was a poor tool for generating code anyone else could use or follow.
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  158. @Achmed E. Newman
    What's wrong with that is that it's not engineering. A guy who installs and fixes piping and valves is not an electrician and he shouldn't claim to be.

    BTW, you are still an engineer, as I think of it like the way the Marines do. You will always be an engineer, Mr. Heitor, but you say you are making a living differently.

    This was the most famous American engineer who ever lived.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I'll give railroad engineers a break in their "appropriation" of the term, as there were no official real engineers back during their start, so they are grandfathered in. ;-}

    "The trouble with you is the trouble with me, you got two good eyes, but you still don't see."

    Thanks. A little Dead for the Workingman.

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  159. @Massimo Heitor

    I’m sick of the business of doing computer development, programming, and testing * being called engineering.
     
    Why? I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an "engineer" is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.

    I have an engineering degree from a top ranked "public ivy" university, I do software development work for a living, and while I don't choose to use the label "engineering" to refer to that type of work myself, I don't see what's wrong with that.

    I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an “engineer” is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.

    Prestige has nothing to do with it. If you have an engineering degree from Fairleigh Dickinson University, you are an engineer.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You are correct, and meanwhile Mr Heitor probably meant 'credential' when he said 'criteria' however even more than the degree, there is a license which actually confers the title of P.E.
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  160. Sundar Pichai’s ongoing management problem is Susan Wojcicki, who has outsize influence in the firm relative to her particular management responsibility. People who have worked in family-owned firms are quite familiar with the tensions and problems of family interference, especially by Dragon Lady types. I wonder if Pichai was a sort of patsy for Brin and Page, given the job to absorb the misery of having to deal with Wojcicki? Anyway, they’ve showered a billion dollars in compensation on the hapless guy, so it’s not a bad deal at all.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    Sundar Pichai’s ongoing management problem is Susan Wojcicki, who has outsize influence in the firm relative to her particular management responsibility. People who have worked in family-owned firms are quite familiar with the tensions and problems of family interference, especially by Dragon Lady types. I wonder if Pichai was a sort of patsy for Brin and Page, given the job to absorb the misery of having to deal with Wojcicki? Anyway, they’ve showered a billion dollars in compensation on the hapless guy, so it’s not a bad deal at all.

    This sounds about right.

    Then again, it is not like they can't fire Wojcicki. I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.
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  161. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    There was FORTRAN and C, but FORTRAN was for the big number crunching.
     
    There was FORTRAN and COBOL. FORTRAN was for number crunching and COBOL was for business applications. C came later.

    APL was around, and popular for a while, though arcane in its notation and array-oriented structure, was pretty good for math-y applications but required you to think very differently from the other two. In the recession of 1982, when I got my first regular corporate job, my listing APL as a skill got me a lot of respect from the interviewer, who knew about it.

    I worked for a guy who was misguided enough to listen to a hoodoo writer who advocated learning and using Adobe PostScript as a general purpose programming language. Bad idea for a lot of reasons. But he got good at coming up with simple, effective graphics in raw PostScript.

    APL was one of those things, like Forth, (which was the basis for PostScript) that did certain things really well but died out because it was a poor tool for generating code anyone else could use or follow.

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    • Agree: PiltdownMan
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  162. @Thomm
    Debating via anecdote is precisely what proves that WNs have extremely low IQs. They adopt debate tactics that negros use.

    By your logic, all black people are as smart as Thomas Sowell.

    You, as a WN, have a demonstrably low IQ.

    I know more WNs than you do and while a few aren’t the brightest tools in the shed, on average they are smarter than average.

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  163. @PiltdownMan
    Sundar Pichai's ongoing management problem is Susan Wojcicki, who has outsize influence in the firm relative to her particular management responsibility. People who have worked in family-owned firms are quite familiar with the tensions and problems of family interference, especially by Dragon Lady types. I wonder if Pichai was a sort of patsy for Brin and Page, given the job to absorb the misery of having to deal with Wojcicki? Anyway, they've showered a billion dollars in compensation on the hapless guy, so it's not a bad deal at all.

    Sundar Pichai’s ongoing management problem is Susan Wojcicki, who has outsize influence in the firm relative to her particular management responsibility. People who have worked in family-owned firms are quite familiar with the tensions and problems of family interference, especially by Dragon Lady types. I wonder if Pichai was a sort of patsy for Brin and Page, given the job to absorb the misery of having to deal with Wojcicki? Anyway, they’ve showered a billion dollars in compensation on the hapless guy, so it’s not a bad deal at all.

    This sounds about right.

    Then again, it is not like they can’t fire Wojcicki. I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Since California seems to be an "at will" employment state, I guess they can technically fire Susan for any reasons not explicitly prohibited, and I guess that includes firing her for harboring resentment regarding the fact that Sergey cheated on her sister. But that could create complications...

    Pretty good: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/04/sergey-brin-amanda-rosenberg-affair

    Maybe world-historical (read it if you haven't yet): https://www.scribd.com/document/368688363/James-Damore-vs-Google-Class-Action-Lawsuit
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.
     
    It was she who divorced him. Do try to keep up.
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  164. @Unladen Swallow
    DuckDuckGo works pretty well.

    Thanks. I’ll try it. I’ve tried Bing, as commenter SpudBoy recommended, but it never seemed as good as Google.

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  165. @Thomm

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
     
    That would be great for me, but you are forgetting that White Nationalists are part of this low-IQ group.

    “Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?”

    That would be great for me,………..

    Why? Do you fancy living on the Moon? You’ve never struck me as anything other than an insipid dullard.

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  166. @Harry Baldwin
    I don't want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    It’s amusing that commenter Thomm, who is innumerate and a fan of TV wrestling and other pop-culture trash, imagines himself to be part of some kind of cognitive elite.

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  167. @Thomm
    Debating via anecdote is precisely what proves that WNs have extremely low IQs. They adopt debate tactics that negros use.

    By your logic, all black people are as smart as Thomas Sowell.

    You, as a WN, have a demonstrably low IQ.

    Really? And what statistics do you have to prove your contention.? Provide them, you prating nitwit. Otherwise, you are just arguing by anecdote.

    By the way, how much math have you had? Care to tell us, or does it embarrass you?

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  168. @guest
    I like that pic. She's giving hard "sincere face," but a bit below it's still "check out my tits."

    YAWALT

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  169. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm
    Sundar Pichai’s ongoing management problem is Susan Wojcicki, who has outsize influence in the firm relative to her particular management responsibility. People who have worked in family-owned firms are quite familiar with the tensions and problems of family interference, especially by Dragon Lady types. I wonder if Pichai was a sort of patsy for Brin and Page, given the job to absorb the misery of having to deal with Wojcicki? Anyway, they’ve showered a billion dollars in compensation on the hapless guy, so it’s not a bad deal at all.

    This sounds about right.

    Then again, it is not like they can't fire Wojcicki. I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.

    Since California seems to be an “at will” employment state, I guess they can technically fire Susan for any reasons not explicitly prohibited, and I guess that includes firing her for harboring resentment regarding the fact that Sergey cheated on her sister. But that could create complications…

    Pretty good: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/04/sergey-brin-amanda-rosenberg-affair

    Maybe world-historical (read it if you haven’t yet): https://www.scribd.com/document/368688363/James-Damore-vs-Google-Class-Action-Lawsuit

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  170. A couple of observations. Women and particularly Nice White Ladies of authority but no competence HATE HATE HATE nerdy White guys. Because they are stupid and hate being reminded of it, and women in general HATE HATE HATE intelligence in men. Witness the fury that erupted mostly from the White ladies in Google, with a few Asian chicks thrown in.

    Second, Google is a function of Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Eric Schmidt. White men themselves who feeling ashamed of their skin and penises seem to have bought into every SJW hate White men schtick there is, hoping abasement will lead to forgiveness of intelligence and lack of swaggering. Say what you will about Trump, I doubt any of his organizations were Hate Whitey. If White men at the leadership top don’t constantly put the boot in on non-Whites and particularly White women, this is just what you get: Google, Twitter, Apple, etc.

    Third, Damore will lose and the courts will hold that no White man any time any place should be employed by anyone. Recall that law is whatever a judge says it is that day, based on his/her personal animus to Donald Trump and White men. And 99.999% of Judges hate hate hate White men.

    Fourth, very likely anyone to the left of Pol Pot will abandon Google as much as possible. Their people are policy and if Twitter non-White employees boast of having every bit of blackmail “on my server” you can bet Google is no different.

    Fifth, the anti-White animus is a reflection of lack of fear of any rival or competition. If an idiot like Susan Wojohiki is running things, based on her sister screwing Sergey once upon a time, you know the place is filled with talentless hacks and aging hos.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    A couple of observations. Women and particularly Nice White Ladies of authority but no competence HATE HATE HATE nerdy White guys. Because they are stupid and hate being reminded of it, and women in general HATE HATE HATE intelligence in men.
     
    That is nowhere close to being true.
    , @anonymous coward

    Second, Google is a function of Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Eric Schmidt. White men themselves who feeling ashamed of their skin and penises seem to have bought into every SJW hate White men schtick there is, hoping abasement will lead to forgiveness of intelligence and lack of swaggering.
     
    Brin, Page and Schmidt are part of the Deep State and are simply following the party line. Complaining about them being feminist is like complaining that Soviet Politburo members are Marxist.
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  171. @Thomm
    Sundar Pichai’s ongoing management problem is Susan Wojcicki, who has outsize influence in the firm relative to her particular management responsibility. People who have worked in family-owned firms are quite familiar with the tensions and problems of family interference, especially by Dragon Lady types. I wonder if Pichai was a sort of patsy for Brin and Page, given the job to absorb the misery of having to deal with Wojcicki? Anyway, they’ve showered a billion dollars in compensation on the hapless guy, so it’s not a bad deal at all.

    This sounds about right.

    Then again, it is not like they can't fire Wojcicki. I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.

    I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.

    It was she who divorced him. Do try to keep up.

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    • Replies: @Thomm
    He was having a number of affairs (even Larry Page disapproved of Sergey's affairs), and the end result is the same - there is no reason they can't fire Susan W now.

    You inability to stick to the main point are a perfect example of Confucius' saying :

    "When a wise man points to the stars, the imbecile* criticizes the finger".

    *you are the imbecile, in case that is unclear to you.
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  172. @J.Ross
    In Michael Crichton's novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the "window seat:" not firing, but permanent suspension of any hope of prestige or advancement. You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
    You would think that with all the Mensaucity of the Google meritocratic leadership they would have considered a subtle self-containing solution like -- naw, let's just publicly fire him without a legal basis and then hope everyone else is as self-righteous as we are.

    In Michael Crichton’s novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the “window seat:”

    That scene in the movie which showed Ishihara sitting by the airplane window as Sean Connery explained the concept of the window seat, filled me with mortal dread not unlike the last page of Squirrel Nutkin. I understood it was a fate worse than death and I never wanted to be that guy.

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  173. Sundar Pichai knows very well that HBD is real
    He is a Tamil Brahmin, in his native state of Tamil Nadu in India, the 99% Tamil Dravidians need a 69% anti-brahmin quota to protect themselves from the 1% Tamil Brahmins

    Sundar Pichai attended IIT, the toughest Engineering school in India and he knows at the high-end of the IQ curve, women are much less represented, 90% of IIT students are male

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Pichai is a real bright guy and isn't very political.
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  174. @European-American
    > Wars are not fought, and certainly not won, by polite, rational discussion.

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. "wars" seems ridiculous. In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?

    If it helps, the Culture War goes beyond the internet. It’s everywhere.

    “War” is hyperbolic. But it’s conventional to refer to things which aren’t war as war.

    The term’s origin is in the German “Kulturkampf” from the times of Bismarck. It was really more like “culture-struggle,” though “kampf” derives from the Latin for “battlefield,” I think.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    Thanks for the explanation. (And I didn’t know the etymology of Kampf, from Latin campus = field, cool!).

    However I’m concerned there is too much grandstanding on both sides.

    If one side makes spurious accusations, uses doubtful science, or unconsciously follows an unwise and dangerous ideology, it may not help to inflame the argument by grandiosely talking about war, or to cheapen the argument with vulgar language and insults.

    Notice the above sentence could be agreed to by both sides. Both sides accuse the other of similar mistakes and hazardous behaviors. These are important matters, but surely you agree giving in to hysterics won’t make things better, and won’t help either side win.

    In some cases strong language, meme-fighting, and below-the-belt attacks can help “winning” (see Trump, Donald). But for us common mortals, I would argue civilized discourse is often the better long term bet.

    It’s just embarrassing when an Internet commenter thinks swearing makes him or her win an argument or seem like a tough person.

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  175. @Mr. Anon

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. “wars” seems ridiculous.
     
    They are cultural wars. When the other side considers you to be an enemy, then - yes - it is a war. And like the hot kind, you don't win them by being a gentleman. The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don't seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.

    In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?
     
    Let's hope we find a way of fighting and winning the cultural war before it devolves into some other kind.

    Yes, let’s hope we can find a way. Because on the opposite side of this so-called war are many of my friends, family members, colleagues, doctors, scientists, and so on. I’d rather be able to resolve these differences in a civil way.

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  176. @Alden
    It's my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.

    Then all the liberals can have rejoice that the big bad wolf of merit hiring has been defeated once again.

    It’s my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.

    That’s not going to happen.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Agree that it's not quite probable, but you might be surprised at the latitude judges can exercise. The worst that can happen is that s/he will get reversed on appeal, and guess which sort of judgment will attract the closest legal scrutiny? With a few notable exceptions, no one wants to get into the career-destroying business of being on the Wrong Side of History. If the judge slams Google, though, you can become a hero to one and all (esp the MSM) by getting him reversed. Your name will become Legend.
    , @Alden
    We’ll see. Last I looked, it’s not on calendar yet. Lots of cases get dismissed on the first court date.
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  177. @rec1man
    Sundar Pichai knows very well that HBD is real
    He is a Tamil Brahmin, in his native state of Tamil Nadu in India, the 99% Tamil Dravidians need a 69% anti-brahmin quota to protect themselves from the 1% Tamil Brahmins

    Sundar Pichai attended IIT, the toughest Engineering school in India and he knows at the high-end of the IQ curve, women are much less represented, 90% of IIT students are male

    Pichai is a real bright guy and isn’t very political.

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  178. @J.Ross
    In Michael Crichton's novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the "window seat:" not firing, but permanent suspension of any hope of prestige or advancement. You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
    You would think that with all the Mensaucity of the Google meritocratic leadership they would have considered a subtle self-containing solution like -- naw, let's just publicly fire him without a legal basis and then hope everyone else is as self-righteous as we are.

    “Everyone else” barely exists to them, except insofar as we contribute to their profits. I’m sure in deciding to fire him they thought of nothing but the “culture” of screeching SJW harpies who might have won their scalps if they hesitated.

    They are them, but also fear them like the lone settler fears the Comanche.

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  179. @AnotherDad

    This interview is obviously related to the recent lawsuit. California law prohibits firing someone because of their political beliefs/activities. So Google is having Sundar get the word out so when he testifies in his deposition he can point to prior consistent public statements.
     
    Exactly this.

    They had to craft Susan's hissy fit into some sort of plausible non-political but politically palatable firing offense. There is little doubt that this line has been carefully vetted by their lawyers as the best they can do.

    One big problem they have is ... Susan. Her statements reveal political/personal-resentment motives even in her cooked up dinner table conversations with her kids. And she's bragged about being the driver who pushed the meeting to a decision to can Damore.

    California is an “at will” state, meaning an employee can be let go at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. Exceptions for issues related to protected classes, and this will likely be the first bar plaintiff will need to clear.

    Was Damore a whistleblower, fired in retaliation for speaking out about Google’s illegal discriminatory behavior? If the company shows the policies Damore complained about were not illegal, perhaps his claim of retaliation is blunted. His memo could then be portrayed, ipso facto, as creating a hostile work environment for “literally shaking” snowflake co-workers. It seems to me the key here is how much leeway the judge will allow Damore’s attorneys to pry into Google’s HR processes. Google has to make sure the judge won’t allow them to pull on that string.

    What I would love to see is Google being forced to detail the demographics of its workforce. There could be patterns of disparate impact of all kinds! Surely their over-40 numbers are deficient. Do they hire even close to the proper numbers of African-Americans? Do their NAM numbers skew to the low-pay end? Obviously the fairer sex is well represented in the executive suite, if you count wives and sisters (mistresses?), but how about at the lower levels of management in the IT department?

    Methinks there is a lot about this case that Google just doesn’t want to litigate. There are ministerial investigations of Google going on all over the world, and this case can’t help their predicament. Best to resolve it as quickly as possible. Pay the man, and move on. Damore has them over a relatively small barrel, but he should ask a REAL fortune for a settlement. Alphabet made $20 billion profit last reported year (2016). Take a chunk out of that.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "California is an 'at will state, meaning an employee can be let go at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. Exceptions..."

    I don't know why you make such a sweeping statement, then mention exceptions. Because there are many, many exceptions. California is not actually an "at will" state. It has very strict labor laws, including ones covering reasons for which you can't be fired.

    The relevant law has been posted on this site numerous times.
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  180. @Whiskey
    A couple of observations. Women and particularly Nice White Ladies of authority but no competence HATE HATE HATE nerdy White guys. Because they are stupid and hate being reminded of it, and women in general HATE HATE HATE intelligence in men. Witness the fury that erupted mostly from the White ladies in Google, with a few Asian chicks thrown in.

    Second, Google is a function of Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Eric Schmidt. White men themselves who feeling ashamed of their skin and penises seem to have bought into every SJW hate White men schtick there is, hoping abasement will lead to forgiveness of intelligence and lack of swaggering. Say what you will about Trump, I doubt any of his organizations were Hate Whitey. If White men at the leadership top don't constantly put the boot in on non-Whites and particularly White women, this is just what you get: Google, Twitter, Apple, etc.

    Third, Damore will lose and the courts will hold that no White man any time any place should be employed by anyone. Recall that law is whatever a judge says it is that day, based on his/her personal animus to Donald Trump and White men. And 99.999% of Judges hate hate hate White men.

    Fourth, very likely anyone to the left of Pol Pot will abandon Google as much as possible. Their people are policy and if Twitter non-White employees boast of having every bit of blackmail "on my server" you can bet Google is no different.

    Fifth, the anti-White animus is a reflection of lack of fear of any rival or competition. If an idiot like Susan Wojohiki is running things, based on her sister screwing Sergey once upon a time, you know the place is filled with talentless hacks and aging hos.

    A couple of observations. Women and particularly Nice White Ladies of authority but no competence HATE HATE HATE nerdy White guys. Because they are stupid and hate being reminded of it, and women in general HATE HATE HATE intelligence in men.

    That is nowhere close to being true.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Try to ignore whiskey. He doesn’t even read the articles. He just inserts his anti women comments no matter how irrelevant to the article.
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  181. @Intelligent Dasein

    I mean, if Sergey can divorce Anne Wojcicki, then certainly they can fire Susan from a corporate position.
     
    It was she who divorced him. Do try to keep up.

    He was having a number of affairs (even Larry Page disapproved of Sergey’s affairs), and the end result is the same – there is no reason they can’t fire Susan W now.

    You inability to stick to the main point are a perfect example of Confucius’ saying :

    “When a wise man points to the stars, the imbecile* criticizes the finger”.

    *you are the imbecile, in case that is unclear to you.

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  182. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes as they run their companies into the ground.
     
    This is the continuing mystery. The "strong, independent woman" we were promised back in say 1970, has yet to show up.

    Instead, we apparently need Victorian sexual mores--for men only--to protect the "virtue" of drunken sluts, who hookup with drunken cads and don't feel good about it in the morning (or anytime in the next few months, if he doesn't call).

    And we must protect the feelings of these "strong independent" women in tech, from any suggestion that maybe just maybe they aren't surrounded by a supportive sisterhood, their "sisters" are just way less interested in working on things, than working with people.

    We're approaching 50 years of "liberation" ... and these "strong independent women" keep not showing up.

    We’re approaching 50 years of “liberation” … and these “strong independent women” keep not showing up.

    OTOH, if you want to get laid PDQ, simply find a table of women, sit yourself down and announce to no one in particular, “You know, I just can’t believe how incredibly strong and independent women are!”

    They’ll be on you like the proverbial white on rice. You’ll be fighting them off and even better, they’ll be fighting each other for you.

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  183. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman

    It’s my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.
     
    That's not going to happen.

    Agree that it’s not quite probable, but you might be surprised at the latitude judges can exercise. The worst that can happen is that s/he will get reversed on appeal, and guess which sort of judgment will attract the closest legal scrutiny? With a few notable exceptions, no one wants to get into the career-destroying business of being on the Wrong Side of History. If the judge slams Google, though, you can become a hero to one and all (esp the MSM) by getting him reversed. Your name will become Legend.

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    • Replies: @Alden
    If a suit gets dismissed, can the plaintiff appeal?
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  184. @ScarletNumber

    I presume the most authoritative criteria for being an “engineer” is having an engineering degree from a prestigious school.
     
    Prestige has nothing to do with it. If you have an engineering degree from Fairleigh Dickinson University, you are an engineer.

    You are correct, and meanwhile Mr Heitor probably meant ‘credential’ when he said ‘criteria’ however even more than the degree, there is a license which actually confers the title of P.E.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The P.E. is the gate the gatekeepers care about.
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  185. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Stephen Marle
    I've linked to this before, but here's a feminist ex-Google engineering manager on the impossibility of having population proportionality for the sexes:

    https://medium.com/the-mission/im-an-ex-google-woman-tech-leader-and-i-m-sick-of-our-approach-to-diversity-17008c5fe999

    It’s not like I wasn’t trying to hire women. But I was working with a candidate pool composed of 90% men. Try software engineers with experience in sensors, wireless and hardware stacks before angrily correcting my stats there. There was no way I was going to come out of that with a larger percentage of women hires than I did.
     

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far. We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.
     

    I left Google to build UrbanAMA. As a woman entrepreneur, I wanted to build a company that had a diverse team. I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve failed miserably so far. We try hard, but again find ourselves with a 98% male candidate pool.

    Given that already there aren’t enough white kids around to provide the correct educational context for POC children, will something similar happen wrt the sexes? I hope it’s obvious that I’m kidding. OTOH, trans progress continues apace.

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  186. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    In Michael Crichton's novel Rising Sun he talks about the modern hara-kiri of the sarariman being the "window seat:" not firing, but permanent suspension of any hope of prestige or advancement. You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
    You would think that with all the Mensaucity of the Google meritocratic leadership they would have considered a subtle self-containing solution like -- naw, let's just publicly fire him without a legal basis and then hope everyone else is as self-righteous as we are.

    You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.

    I can’t tell you how much fun it is reading your writing. As if your writing weren’t brilliant and entertaining enough, there’s your lucid, trenchant thinking behind it. Since I’m anonymous I can throw this your way without embarrassing myself too much :)

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I would rather read what you just wrote than receive an advance from Harper-Collins. I lift my krater to you, xhir!
    [as I write, a rebroadcast of Dennis Prager points out that the "Russian collusion investigation" has to be fake, because, given media history, if there really was a Yakutian Candidate, the media would be on dzhur's side! Perun save Dennis!]
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  187. @ben tillman
    Well, one certainly can't regret something that is happening now.

    Says you! I regret typing this.

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  188. @rogue-one
    As someone who used to work in Silicon Valley, I disagree with you. Hiring Damore will bring a PR headache to any organization. "Activists" including some coworkers will start protesting against Damore, media will increase scrutiny,(most) investors will shy away.

    >There’s many a young company in the valley that still place a premium on technical talent, and are not in thrall to the PC zeitgeist, that would love to have him.

    Yes, most companies would love to have Damore's skills as an employee but not the negative PR and tensions he will bring. Overall, perhaps Gab or Thiel might hire him. But not salesforce, apple, or a recent y-combinator company (with exception of Gab).

    >He’ll have plenty of opportunities for work, but first there’s a fish gutting he needs to attend to.

    Probably. Once this thing dies down in a couple of years he might have a chance. Or if he moves to some other city. But he is effectively unhireable in Silicon Valley.

    Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars? Google in it’s early days, or Facebook when it started certainly was not filled with them, or even had them period. My impression that those types come on board once the company is already a household name of at least some note. I think that was his point. Is there less start up activity in SV now? If companies truly want the best and they no have huge HR infrastructure full of SJWs to object and nobody has heard of them why wouldn’t they hire him?

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    • Replies: @rogue-one
    >Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars?

    Negative PR. Any startup which does not agree with PC commissars will become a target of media. Most startups do not want to associated with being "misogynist" tag.
    , @J.Ross
    Yeah tldr gamergate
    "Oh now that you're successful and popular let me use you as a vehicle for Marxism"
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  189. @guest
    I like that pic. She's giving hard "sincere face," but a bit below it's still "check out my tits."

    I guess women really can have it all.

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  190. @Anonymous

    I remember when the left was in favor of employee rights and believed that employees shouldn’t be fired for what they say .
     
    That was way, way back when they weren't in power. The only people ever in favor of free speech are those who are not in power. Or those (like our Founding Fathers) who remember it because it was only yesterday.

    The people in power now have been in power for decades. They don't remember being on the outside. Paradoxically enough, an integral part of their mythology is being on the outside always and everywhere. This is how they can justify anything and everything they do to the rest of us.

    I'm frankly surprised at people here who imagine that James Damore will prevail through legal proceedings, especially in California. It's almost as if you haven't been paying attention to this very blog.

    I read or heard a vid claiming that the big event separating “now” from “then” was the fall of Communism.

    The left needed a Utopian project to fill the vacuum. So identity politics became the new thing.

    Assume a decade or so to get every leftist on the board, and the timing fits.

    Another weird aspect of Communism in Eastern Europe is that, despite the Communism they suffered (mostly not as bad as the USSR or China, with Romania likely the worst), the citizens of those countries seem more normal than us.

    We were undoubtedly better off financially. But a creepy new subculture started around 1960 or so.

    This subculture gradually wormed its way into everything: media, education and politics. Their victory seemed unstoppable until the election of Trump. Even outside the US, leftists were in panic over Trump.

    Where we go from here, I don’t know.

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  191. @rogue-one
    >How telling that these strong, independent women, so accomplished and capable, must be protected by draconian speech codes

    Ruling classes have always been protected from criticism. This is why they are the ruling classes. Do you really think the liberal orthodoxy could survive 5 minutes of reasoned debate? (Watch the recent Peterson video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54) But by stifling debate and punishing dissenters, the ruling classes and their ideology are allowed to thrive.

    Kiri-Sute gone allowed Samurais to cut any commoner who insulted their honor. Lèse-majesté punished any perceived insult against the king and his family.

    In today's victimhood hierarchy, straight, white, men are at the bottom and and Kiri-Sute against them by those higher in victimhood totem pole is permissible.

    The Jordan Peterson-Cathy Newman video is highly recommended.

    In short, she was demolished (the subject: the “female wage gap.”)

    It hasn’t been treated by the US media much yet since involved a Canadian (Peterson) and an English TV interviewer (Newman).

    You need to see it to believe how badly she lost.

    But in the aftermath we’re being told that she has received death threats (don’t these people realize they only make their side look worse?)

    An indeed the English media is not writing about the interview at all; the big story for them are these death threats.

    Thanks, you idiots.

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  192. @PiltdownMan
    This was the most famous American engineer who ever lived.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcB9wlmnDPY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJKCWaiYUP4

    I’ll give railroad engineers a break in their “appropriation” of the term, as there were no official real engineers back during their start, so they are grandfathered in. ;-}

    “The trouble with you is the trouble with me, you got two good eyes, but you still don’t see.”

    Thanks. A little Dead for the Workingman.

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  193. @Harry Baldwin
    I don't want to live on the moon, or Mars either. Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?

    That would be the most expensive and ineffectual ethnic cleansing in human history. (Guys, this is exactly why you keep losing.)

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Well, how about we just tell them we're sending them to a luxury Martian resort and award the rocket contract to the lowest bidder.
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  194. @Whiskey
    A couple of observations. Women and particularly Nice White Ladies of authority but no competence HATE HATE HATE nerdy White guys. Because they are stupid and hate being reminded of it, and women in general HATE HATE HATE intelligence in men. Witness the fury that erupted mostly from the White ladies in Google, with a few Asian chicks thrown in.

    Second, Google is a function of Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Eric Schmidt. White men themselves who feeling ashamed of their skin and penises seem to have bought into every SJW hate White men schtick there is, hoping abasement will lead to forgiveness of intelligence and lack of swaggering. Say what you will about Trump, I doubt any of his organizations were Hate Whitey. If White men at the leadership top don't constantly put the boot in on non-Whites and particularly White women, this is just what you get: Google, Twitter, Apple, etc.

    Third, Damore will lose and the courts will hold that no White man any time any place should be employed by anyone. Recall that law is whatever a judge says it is that day, based on his/her personal animus to Donald Trump and White men. And 99.999% of Judges hate hate hate White men.

    Fourth, very likely anyone to the left of Pol Pot will abandon Google as much as possible. Their people are policy and if Twitter non-White employees boast of having every bit of blackmail "on my server" you can bet Google is no different.

    Fifth, the anti-White animus is a reflection of lack of fear of any rival or competition. If an idiot like Susan Wojohiki is running things, based on her sister screwing Sergey once upon a time, you know the place is filled with talentless hacks and aging hos.

    Second, Google is a function of Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Eric Schmidt. White men themselves who feeling ashamed of their skin and penises seem to have bought into every SJW hate White men schtick there is, hoping abasement will lead to forgiveness of intelligence and lack of swaggering.

    Brin, Page and Schmidt are part of the Deep State and are simply following the party line. Complaining about them being feminist is like complaining that Soviet Politburo members are Marxist.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Brin, Page and Schmidt are part of the Deep State and are simply following the party line.
     
    At that level, they're setting it.

    And no, Whiskey, there's neither shame nor embarrassment nor abasement involved. Quite the opposite. They're drunk on their own power.
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  195. @Unladen Swallow
    Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars? Google in it's early days, or Facebook when it started certainly was not filled with them, or even had them period. My impression that those types come on board once the company is already a household name of at least some note. I think that was his point. Is there less start up activity in SV now? If companies truly want the best and they no have huge HR infrastructure full of SJWs to object and nobody has heard of them why wouldn't they hire him?

    >Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars?

    Negative PR. Any startup which does not agree with PC commissars will become a target of media. Most startups do not want to associated with being “misogynist” tag.

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    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    The MSM is aware of every little start-up in the valley and will attack them even if no one reading has ever heard of them? That seems unlikely. Did the New York Times or Washington Post report on Google, Facebook, or Palantir when they started?
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  196. @guest
    If it helps, the Culture War goes beyond the internet. It's everywhere.

    "War" is hyperbolic. But it's conventional to refer to things which aren't war as war.

    The term's origin is in the German "Kulturkampf" from the times of Bismarck. It was really more like "culture-struggle," though "kampf" derives from the Latin for "battlefield," I think.

    Thanks for the explanation. (And I didn’t know the etymology of Kampf, from Latin campus = field, cool!).

    However I’m concerned there is too much grandstanding on both sides.

    If one side makes spurious accusations, uses doubtful science, or unconsciously follows an unwise and dangerous ideology, it may not help to inflame the argument by grandiosely talking about war, or to cheapen the argument with vulgar language and insults.

    Notice the above sentence could be agreed to by both sides. Both sides accuse the other of similar mistakes and hazardous behaviors. These are important matters, but surely you agree giving in to hysterics won’t make things better, and won’t help either side win.

    In some cases strong language, meme-fighting, and below-the-belt attacks can help “winning” (see Trump, Donald). But for us common mortals, I would argue civilized discourse is often the better long term bet.

    It’s just embarrassing when an Internet commenter thinks swearing makes him or her win an argument or seem like a tough person.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    It’s just embarrassing when an Internet commenter thinks swearing makes him or her win an argument or seem like a tough person.
     
    As always, it depends on the audience.

    Your refined sensibilities function as a "kick me" sign among a decently large swath of your adversaries.
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  197. @anonymous coward

    Can we just send the 20% population of low IQ, low time preference orcs there?
     
    That would be the most expensive and ineffectual ethnic cleansing in human history. (Guys, this is exactly why you keep losing.)

    Well, how about we just tell them we’re sending them to a luxury Martian resort and award the rocket contract to the lowest bidder.

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  198. @Anonymous
    You are correct, and meanwhile Mr Heitor probably meant 'credential' when he said 'criteria' however even more than the degree, there is a license which actually confers the title of P.E.

    The P.E. is the gate the gatekeepers care about.

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  199. @European-American
    Thanks for the explanation. (And I didn’t know the etymology of Kampf, from Latin campus = field, cool!).

    However I’m concerned there is too much grandstanding on both sides.

    If one side makes spurious accusations, uses doubtful science, or unconsciously follows an unwise and dangerous ideology, it may not help to inflame the argument by grandiosely talking about war, or to cheapen the argument with vulgar language and insults.

    Notice the above sentence could be agreed to by both sides. Both sides accuse the other of similar mistakes and hazardous behaviors. These are important matters, but surely you agree giving in to hysterics won’t make things better, and won’t help either side win.

    In some cases strong language, meme-fighting, and below-the-belt attacks can help “winning” (see Trump, Donald). But for us common mortals, I would argue civilized discourse is often the better long term bet.

    It’s just embarrassing when an Internet commenter thinks swearing makes him or her win an argument or seem like a tough person.

    It’s just embarrassing when an Internet commenter thinks swearing makes him or her win an argument or seem like a tough person.

    As always, it depends on the audience.

    Your refined sensibilities function as a “kick me” sign among a decently large swath of your adversaries.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @European-American
    Do you think swearing or vulgar language makes these adversaries respect you more?
    F**k that! :-D

    But I can see how swearing can make you feel strong.

    And I suppose, if you really are strong, cursing notifies your adversaries that you are indeed strong.

    This was my original point: SJWs arguing against Damore by cursing reveal themselves as bullies. But I suppose they are ok with that. It’s ok to punch a Nazi, after all, everyone knows that! You don’t argue with a Nazi, you just bully him.
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  200. @anonymous coward

    Second, Google is a function of Sergey Brin, Larry Page, and Eric Schmidt. White men themselves who feeling ashamed of their skin and penises seem to have bought into every SJW hate White men schtick there is, hoping abasement will lead to forgiveness of intelligence and lack of swaggering.
     
    Brin, Page and Schmidt are part of the Deep State and are simply following the party line. Complaining about them being feminist is like complaining that Soviet Politburo members are Marxist.

    Brin, Page and Schmidt are part of the Deep State and are simply following the party line.

    At that level, they’re setting it.

    And no, Whiskey, there’s neither shame nor embarrassment nor abasement involved. Quite the opposite. They’re drunk on their own power.

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  201. @nebulafox
    People like Damore who would have the intelligence and anal quality to create such a memo in tandem with the social ineptitude (or lack of SJW ideology themselves) to voice such opinions are not exactly ruthless, Machiavellian bargainers out for every cent they can get. They want to be left alone to their code. People who would opt for that route typically won't do what Damore did or be in his high performance technical role within the company to start with. Chances are, they'd be in other roles nd would also be lazy enough to not see the profit in it vs. potential risk. Thus, they would simply parrot and enforce SJW ideology instead. Most people want the most money for the least amount of work-and the least amount of risk.

    Damore's memo is very well-written and objective, befitting a former training scientist. He bends over backwards to not discount the problem of sexism in Silicon Valley and to stress the generalities of his conclusions. He doesn't just diagnose, he offers prescriptions. I.e-it is glaringly obvious that he truly believed there was a problem, that he attempted to talk about it in good faith, and that Google's reaction (again: they didn't just fire him, they tried to blacklist him and discredit him) suggested that his critiques had merit. Whereas if someone was just being a loud jerk-off for the sake of offending people to get fired and have a payout, no high-priced lawyer would fight pro bono for him. (Not to mention that Google would have a tougher time blacklisting such a person effectively, especially if they just simply fired him rather than attempt to crush him, as would likely be the case.) The media would not pay loads of attention, either. A lawsuit from somebody like that would get nowhere.

    >Most damage is from bad publicity. But Google News aggregation knows how to handle that, don’t they?

    The bad PR is way, way more damaging. Google has tons of money, enough to do anything they please from political lobbying to pet technical projects. They don't need any more. PR, on the other hand, is a bit of a problem given that America's views on Silicon Valley titans are changing. And control over sources of information is hard to keep going over the course of decades, and is getting ever harder. The New York Times and CNN learned that the hard way. (So did FOX, for that matter.) Now Google is, too.

    I agree that Damore is rather unique. Yet when lawyers tell Google execs that paying Damore would establish a dangerous precedent, it will be taken seriously.

    Google also has years of media dominance, so they feel self-confident that they can manage it. Bad PR only matters if it is publicised.

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  202. @Sagamore Sam
    California is an "at will" state, meaning an employee can be let go at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. Exceptions for issues related to protected classes, and this will likely be the first bar plaintiff will need to clear.

    Was Damore a whistleblower, fired in retaliation for speaking out about Google's illegal discriminatory behavior? If the company shows the policies Damore complained about were not illegal, perhaps his claim of retaliation is blunted. His memo could then be portrayed, ipso facto, as creating a hostile work environment for "literally shaking" snowflake co-workers. It seems to me the key here is how much leeway the judge will allow Damore's attorneys to pry into Google's HR processes. Google has to make sure the judge won't allow them to pull on that string.

    What I would love to see is Google being forced to detail the demographics of its workforce. There could be patterns of disparate impact of all kinds! Surely their over-40 numbers are deficient. Do they hire even close to the proper numbers of African-Americans? Do their NAM numbers skew to the low-pay end? Obviously the fairer sex is well represented in the executive suite, if you count wives and sisters (mistresses?), but how about at the lower levels of management in the IT department?

    Methinks there is a lot about this case that Google just doesn't want to litigate. There are ministerial investigations of Google going on all over the world, and this case can't help their predicament. Best to resolve it as quickly as possible. Pay the man, and move on. Damore has them over a relatively small barrel, but he should ask a REAL fortune for a settlement. Alphabet made $20 billion profit last reported year (2016). Take a chunk out of that.

    “California is an ‘at will state, meaning an employee can be let go at any time for any reason, or no reason at all. Exceptions…”

    I don’t know why you make such a sweeping statement, then mention exceptions. Because there are many, many exceptions. California is not actually an “at will” state. It has very strict labor laws, including ones covering reasons for which you can’t be fired.

    The relevant law has been posted on this site numerous times.

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  203. @ben tillman

    A couple of observations. Women and particularly Nice White Ladies of authority but no competence HATE HATE HATE nerdy White guys. Because they are stupid and hate being reminded of it, and women in general HATE HATE HATE intelligence in men.
     
    That is nowhere close to being true.

    Try to ignore whiskey. He doesn’t even read the articles. He just inserts his anti women comments no matter how irrelevant to the article.

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  204. @guest
    But it was political, obviously. In a common sense way, if not in a way covered by California law. Who hasn't heard of "gender politics?"

    That’s what I wrote. Damore ‘s memo doesn’t fit the legal definition of political activities in the workplace according to the applicable CA code.

    That’s all that matters, not ordinary usage.

    But in anti White affirmative action discrimination cases, the law doesn’t matter at all, whether it’s a state or federal case.

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  205. @ben tillman

    It’s my belief that google wants the entire lawsuit dismissed as having no merit at the first motions hearing.
     
    That's not going to happen.

    We’ll see. Last I looked, it’s not on calendar yet. Lots of cases get dismissed on the first court date.

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  206. @Anonymous
    Agree that it's not quite probable, but you might be surprised at the latitude judges can exercise. The worst that can happen is that s/he will get reversed on appeal, and guess which sort of judgment will attract the closest legal scrutiny? With a few notable exceptions, no one wants to get into the career-destroying business of being on the Wrong Side of History. If the judge slams Google, though, you can become a hero to one and all (esp the MSM) by getting him reversed. Your name will become Legend.

    If a suit gets dismissed, can the plaintiff appeal?

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  207. @rogue-one
    >Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars?

    Negative PR. Any startup which does not agree with PC commissars will become a target of media. Most startups do not want to associated with being "misogynist" tag.

    The MSM is aware of every little start-up in the valley and will attack them even if no one reading has ever heard of them? That seems unlikely. Did the New York Times or Washington Post report on Google, Facebook, or Palantir when they started?

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    • Replies: @European-American
    > why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars?

    One reason is that everyone around you is likely to be a PC commissar.

    If your company acquires the slightest whiff of a reputation of being sympathetic to non-PC, i.e. “fascist”, “racist”, etc. ideas, that will be an unfortunate distraction, and you will have trouble attracting the highly skilled people you need. Those people, who may only have the vaguest idea of what it’s all about, will instinctively avoid evil-sounding or “problematic” people and environments.

    Reputation is a very important and very old social mechanism, that you ignore at your peril.

    So good luck to Damore finding a job in the near term... He really has sacrificed a lot.
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  208. @Anonymous

    You still work here but now you are the creep who mumbles about his stapler.
     
    I can't tell you how much fun it is reading your writing. As if your writing weren't brilliant and entertaining enough, there's your lucid, trenchant thinking behind it. Since I'm anonymous I can throw this your way without embarrassing myself too much :)

    I would rather read what you just wrote than receive an advance from Harper-Collins. I lift my krater to you, xhir!
    [as I write, a rebroadcast of Dennis Prager points out that the "Russian collusion investigation" has to be fake, because, given media history, if there really was a Yakutian Candidate, the media would be on dzhur's side! Perun save Dennis!]

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  209. @Unladen Swallow
    Just an observation, why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars? Google in it's early days, or Facebook when it started certainly was not filled with them, or even had them period. My impression that those types come on board once the company is already a household name of at least some note. I think that was his point. Is there less start up activity in SV now? If companies truly want the best and they no have huge HR infrastructure full of SJWs to object and nobody has heard of them why wouldn't they hire him?

    Yeah tldr gamergate
    “Oh now that you’re successful and popular let me use you as a vehicle for Marxism”

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  210. @Mr. Anon

    Calling these endless tirades, hissy fits, cursing, hysterics, childish keyboard mashings, emoting, etc. “wars” seems ridiculous.
     
    They are cultural wars. When the other side considers you to be an enemy, then - yes - it is a war. And like the hot kind, you don't win them by being a gentleman. The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don't seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.

    In any case, wars are fought, not by screaming at each other, but with weapons and by killing people. Are you saying issues like workplace diversity, sexism, or freedom of expression are to be settled by violence?
     
    Let's hope we find a way of fighting and winning the cultural war before it devolves into some other kind.

    Nah, let’s get it over with. It’s almost guaranteed to turn hot anyway, and even if it’s not guaranteed, it would be nice to be permanently free of these people.

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    • Replies: @European-American


    The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don’t seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.
     
    it would be nice to be permanently free of these people

     

    I understand the frustration and the danger, but “these people” are members of our families, friends, neighbors, and people who are part of our society and make it work.

    It’s just silly and hysterical and posing to say we could be rid of them. It’s better to aim to turn the tide and convince them, rather than pretend you could (or would want to) fight or eliminate them.

    Ideas matter. Minds can be changed. They often do. A lot of bad ideas come in and out of fashion.
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  211. @AndrewR
    Nah, let's get it over with. It's almost guaranteed to turn hot anyway, and even if it's not guaranteed, it would be nice to be permanently free of these people.

    The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don’t seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.

    it would be nice to be permanently free of these people

    I understand the frustration and the danger, but “these people” are members of our families, friends, neighbors, and people who are part of our society and make it work.

    It’s just silly and hysterical and posing to say we could be rid of them. It’s better to aim to turn the tide and convince them, rather than pretend you could (or would want to) fight or eliminate them.

    Ideas matter. Minds can be changed. They often do. A lot of bad ideas come in and out of fashion.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Spend a few weeks on Facebook and Twitter trying to "change the minds" of people, especially committed leftists, then come talk to me. Ideally you'll try the same IRL with people you know.

    I know what my experiences have been and I know what conclusions must be drawn. But apparently you need to figure out for yourself how far gone the left is.
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  212. @Unladen Swallow
    The MSM is aware of every little start-up in the valley and will attack them even if no one reading has ever heard of them? That seems unlikely. Did the New York Times or Washington Post report on Google, Facebook, or Palantir when they started?

    > why would a small startup be in thrall to PC commissars?

    One reason is that everyone around you is likely to be a PC commissar.

    If your company acquires the slightest whiff of a reputation of being sympathetic to non-PC, i.e. “fascist”, “racist”, etc. ideas, that will be an unfortunate distraction, and you will have trouble attracting the highly skilled people you need. Those people, who may only have the vaguest idea of what it’s all about, will instinctively avoid evil-sounding or “problematic” people and environments.

    Reputation is a very important and very old social mechanism, that you ignore at your peril.

    So good luck to Damore finding a job in the near term… He really has sacrificed a lot.

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  213. @Desiderius

    It’s just embarrassing when an Internet commenter thinks swearing makes him or her win an argument or seem like a tough person.
     
    As always, it depends on the audience.

    Your refined sensibilities function as a "kick me" sign among a decently large swath of your adversaries.

    Do you think swearing or vulgar language makes these adversaries respect you more?
    F**k that! :-D

    But I can see how swearing can make you feel strong.

    And I suppose, if you really are strong, cursing notifies your adversaries that you are indeed strong.

    This was my original point: SJWs arguing against Damore by cursing reveal themselves as bullies. But I suppose they are ok with that. It’s ok to punch a Nazi, after all, everyone knows that! You don’t argue with a Nazi, you just bully him.

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  214. @European-American


    The people who run Google, and any number of other such enterprises, media companies, and the like, don’t seek dialectic with you. They want to grind you into the dust. Merely for thinking some of the the things you probably think, they would be quite cool with you being hounded out of all polite society and any job more responsible or renumerating than fry-cook.
     
    it would be nice to be permanently free of these people

     

    I understand the frustration and the danger, but “these people” are members of our families, friends, neighbors, and people who are part of our society and make it work.

    It’s just silly and hysterical and posing to say we could be rid of them. It’s better to aim to turn the tide and convince them, rather than pretend you could (or would want to) fight or eliminate them.

    Ideas matter. Minds can be changed. They often do. A lot of bad ideas come in and out of fashion.

    Spend a few weeks on Facebook and Twitter trying to “change the minds” of people, especially committed leftists, then come talk to me. Ideally you’ll try the same IRL with people you know.

    I know what my experiences have been and I know what conclusions must be drawn. But apparently you need to figure out for yourself how far gone the left is.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    My sympathies. I also have tried. And I continue to do so. But very, very carefully.

    I know how far gone the left is. Except it’s not the left, it’s almost everyone!

    I don’t aim to convince or discuss with militant leftists, unless they are close to me. But it’s worth trying with the large majority of people who reflexively parrot the same dogmas as the MSM etc., without having thought that much about it. And in my experience the only way is to do it carefully and politely. I’m sure many commenters here do the same.
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  215. @AndrewR
    Spend a few weeks on Facebook and Twitter trying to "change the minds" of people, especially committed leftists, then come talk to me. Ideally you'll try the same IRL with people you know.

    I know what my experiences have been and I know what conclusions must be drawn. But apparently you need to figure out for yourself how far gone the left is.

    My sympathies. I also have tried. And I continue to do so. But very, very carefully.

    I know how far gone the left is. Except it’s not the left, it’s almost everyone!

    I don’t aim to convince or discuss with militant leftists, unless they are close to me. But it’s worth trying with the large majority of people who reflexively parrot the same dogmas as the MSM etc., without having thought that much about it. And in my experience the only way is to do it carefully and politely. I’m sure many commenters here do the same.

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  216. @utu
    In the meantime OT:

    The biggest mystery in mathematics: Shinichi Mochizuki and the impenetrable proof
    https://www.nature.com/news/the-biggest-mystery-in-mathematics-shinichi-mochizuki-and-the-impenetrable-proof-1.18509

    Three years on, Mochizuki's proof remains in mathematical limbo — neither debunked nor accepted by the wider community. Mochizuki has estimated that it would take a maths graduate student about 10 years to be able to understand his work, and Fesenko believes that it would take even an expert in arithmetic geometry some 500 hours. So far, only four mathematicians say that they have been able to read the entire proof.
     
    Inter-universal Teichmüller theory
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-universal_Teichmüller_theory

    There was a good discussion of the state to this Thing here:

    http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=9871

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