The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"Geno-Economics"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From the New York Times Magazine:

THE ‘GENO-ECONOMISTS’ SAY DNA CAN PREDICT OUR CHANCES OF SUCCESS

CRITICS COUNTER THAT THEIR METHODS ARE NAÏVE, OFFENSIVE OR BOTH, BUT ALL AGREE: EITHER WAY, MULTIGENE TESTING WILL LEAD TO A SOCIAL UPHEAVAL.

BY JACOB WARD

Suggestion: when writing about IQ and race, DON’T USE ALL CAPS.

I was corresponding once with a Nobel Laureate who emailed in all caps. I finally got up the courage to suggest that he just type in all lower case, because, you know, the all caps kind of make it look like you are shouting. He responded: “BUT I AM SHOUTING.”

… But [economist Daniel] Benjamin has remained committed to genes, and in 2007, as genome data became cheaper and more plentiful, a new method for connecting genes to outcomes emerged: genome-wide association studies (G.W.A.S.). With the candidate-gene method, you had to essentially guess which genes might be involved, and usually got it wrong. “With G.W.A.S., you look at the whole genome and let the data tell you where there’s variation,” Benjamin says.

Once a G.W.A.S. shows genetic effects across a group, a “polygenic score” can be assigned to individuals, summarizing the genetic patterns that correlate to outcomes found in the group. Although no one genetic marker might predict anything, this combined score based on the entire genome can be a predictor of all sorts of things. And here’s why it’s so useful: People outside that sample can then have their DNA screened, and are assigned their own polygenic score, and the predictions tend to carry over. This, Benjamin realized, was the sort of statistical tool an economist could use. …

As an economist, however, Benjamin wasn’t interested in medical outcomes. He wanted to see if our genes predict social outcomes.

In 2011, with a grant from the National Science Foundation, Benjamin launched the Social Science Genetic Association Consortium, an unprecedented effort to gather unconnected genetic databases into one enormous sample that could be studied by researchers from outside the world of genetic science. In July 2018, Benjamin and four senior co-authors, drawing on that database, published a landmark study in Nature Genetics. More than 80 authors from more than 50 institutions, including the private company 23andMe, gathered and studied the DNA of over 1.1 million people. It was the largest genetics study ever published, and the subject was not height or heart disease, but how far we go in school.

The researchers assigned each participant a polygenic score based on how broad genetic variations correlated with what’s called “educational attainment.” (They chose it because intake forms in medical offices tend to ask patients what education they’ve completed.) The predictive power of the polygenic score was very small — it predicts more accurately than the parents’ income level, but not as accurately as the parents’ own level of educational attainment — and it’s useless for making individual predictions. Like other G.W.A.S., this one reveals patterns but doesn’t explain them.

And with a data set this big, the patterns provide a lot of information. The authors calculated, for instance, that those in the top fifth of polygenic scores had a 57 percent chance of earning a four-year degree, while those in the bottom fifth had a 12 percent chance. And with that degree of correlation, the authors wrote, polygenic scores can improve the accuracy of other studies of education.

For 19 years, Benjamin and his colleagues were looking for fundamentals. Now, they say, they’ve found them. The genes with which you are born travel during your life through a mediating layer of biology and social experience — racism, puberty, vacations, illness, industrial accidents, sexual harassment, poverty, divorce — that seems so complicated as to be unmeasurable. But their study, part of a field now called “geno-economics,” claims to measure, in part, the degree to which our genes determine who we become. How is that possible? And in an era of dramatic political divisions, predatory companies and systemic inequality, should we really be mapping genetics to social outcomes?

THE LIST OF authors on Benjamin’s study is like an academic bus crash: sociologists and economists jumbled with epidemiologists, psychiatrists and geneticists. But Dalton Conley, a professor of sociology at Princeton, is perhaps the most personally and professionally complicated jumble of them all.

“I grew up as a white kid in a largely African-American and Latino neighborhood full of housing projects,” Conley says. “My parents were lefty artists. At a certain point they lied about our address to move me to a public school in Greenwich Village, so I had a daily commute across the socioeconomic landscape.” …

Conley describes his early academic work as “lefty sociology.” His Ph.D. thesis was on the black-white wealth gap and he dedicated his early career to studying the transmission of health and wealth between parents and children.

Conley pointed out that while the white-black IQ gap seems too big to be explained by the white-black income gap, it’s not too big to be explained by the white-black wealth gap. But, of course, which way does causality more flow: from wealth to IQ or from IQ to wealth? And which would be more causally relevant to IQ: income, wealth, or consumption?

At N.Y.U., Conley kept getting into disagreements with geneticists, arguing that their methods were dangerously naïve. It seemed to him implausible that studying only twins — the gold standard of genetics research — was enough to teach us the difference between nature and nurture. But over time, he decided that it wasn’t enough to just argue. Conley is an academic, and even within that tortured group he is something of a masochist. At that time he was a tenured professor, the kind of gig most people see as the endgame of an academic career, and yet he decided to go back and grind out another Ph.D., this time in genetics.

Impressive.

He went into his program believing that our social environment is largely the cause of our outcomes, and that biology is usually the dependent variable. By the end of his time, he says, the causal arrow in his mind had pretty much flipped the other way: “I tried to show for a range of outcomes that the genetic models were overstating the impact of genetics because of their crazy assumptions.” He sighs. “But I ended up showing that they’re right.”

Now he says he’s convinced the benefits of studying polygenic scores are worth the risks. “I still have some queasiness about what can be done with this research, how politically explosive it can be,” he says. “But as someone who wants to drill down into human behavior, I don’t think we can ignore it anymore.”

Benjamin and his co-authors included a long F.A.Q. document that carefully explained the limits of their findings, not least that they shouldn’t be used to create some sort of half-baked genetics-based educational policy. …

If what Benjamin’s study claims to measure is controversial, consider what it doesn’t measure. The study only draws on the DNA of white people — Europeans, Icelanders, Caucasians in North America, Australia and the United Kingdom. And that’s in part because only those groups, along with Chinese nationals, have given over their D.N.A. in large enough numbers to achieve the statistical power that geno-economics researchers need. I shared Benjamin’s paper with Jesus Hernandez, an urban sociologist who spent 30 years working for the state of California and at the University of California, Davis, and now runs his own research firm mapping the distribution of things like transportation, housing and education to predict social outcomes. Later, when I reached him by phone, he laughed bitterly. “We always do white people first,” he says, “because it’s easiest.” …

But even if the same numbers of people from all races provided their data, one group would still have to be excluded from the study: people with recent genetic roots in Africa, which is to say both Africans, African-Americans and many Latinos. This racial exclusion has to do with the origins of modern humans. When a group of people on what is now the continent of Africa decided, some 50,000 to 70,000 years ago, to go see what the rest of the world was about, they formed what geneticists call a “population bottleneck.” The small group that walked off the continent formed the small gene pool from which all non-African people — whether a Caucasian or a Han Chinese — descend. So the genes of people within the much larger, much more ancient gene pool of Africa (including those brought to the United States and elsewhere by slavery) are so much more diverse that researchers would need a far larger sample — at least two or three times as large, Benjamin says — to even have a hope of finding measurable patterns. Benjamin and his collaborators in fact tried applying the polygenic score derived from European DNA to African-Americans and found the method didn’t work well enough to be useful.

Because sub-Saharans are genetically rather different from the rest of humanity. That’s a logical implication of the celebrated Out-of-Africa theory of modern human origins that emerged in the 1980s, even though it was first assumed that Out-of-Africa meant less divergence between sub-Saharan Africans and the rest of humanity.

If you go back to a book of classical physical anthropology like Carleton Coon’s 1965 bestseller The Living Races of Man, Coon figured Europeans and sub-Saharans were closer to each other than they were to East Asians, New World Indians, and Australians. In Coon’s thinking, the giant mountains of central Asia were the main divide, not the Sahara and Congo rainforest. But early DNA evidence in the 1980s eventually pointed toward a sub-Saharan vs. everybody else model.

And that’s kind of how people act today: when they say “Celebrate Diversity” they deep down most intensely mean “Celebrate Sub-Saharans.” Today’s prejudice in which blacks get many more diversity Pokemon Point points than, say, East Asians, Mexican mestizos, American Indians, Samoans, Australian aborigines, or Andaman Islanders turns out to be rather reasonable, genetically speaking.

You might argue that African-Americans aren’t really all that diverse, other than their level of white admixture. In response, you will be told the cliche that Africans have the most genetic diversity, but that’s primarily due to to genes that don’t affect much but are useful for tracking ancestry.

In the real world, African Americans tend to have fairly similar strengths and weaknesses. But that doesn’t matter because blacks, as a group, are considered to be the most Diverse.

The word “diversity” is notoriously slippery in meaning, but the way modern Americans seem to use it as referring to a sort of Vitamin D that is good for you. Blacks have the most Vitamin D, and so the more blacks you have the more Diverse you are, which is for your own good.

 
Hide 237 CommentsLeave a Comment
237 Comments to ""Geno-Economics""
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. teotoon says:

    Why, yes genes do determine success; especially if they are connected to money, status, and class.

  2. J.Ross says: • Website

    Another bizarre big pharma death joins that wealthy and politically connected Jewish Canadian couple who just got really really sad one day. Anon introduced:

    A big pharma exec who aimedto lower drug prices found dead due to multiple blunt force injuries. His death was ruled a suicide and the medical examiner isn’t releasing any further information. How suspicious is this?

    On November 1, 2018, Daniel Best, a 49-year-old executive who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and led an effort to lower prescription drug prices, was found “unresponsive” near the garage door exit of an apartment building in Washington, D.C. Medical personnel were called to the scene, but pronounced him dead shortly after they arrived.
    “The city’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner on Thursday said Best died from ‘multiple blunt force injuries’ and it ruled his death a suicide. It would not release further information.”
    HHS Secretary Alex Azar reported the former CVS Health and Pfizer Pharmaceuticals executive had a strong “desire to serve the American people by making health care more affordable.”

    https://cloverchronicle.com/2018/11/16/pharmaceutical-exec-who-aimed-to-lower-drug-prices-found-dead-due-to-multiple-blunt-force-injuries/

    https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/11/death_of_hhs_official_daniel_b.html

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    , @Dtbb
  3. J.Ross says: • Website

    Is Hollywood out of ideas? They still have not made Hispanic Brady Bunch. At this rate, Danny Trejo won’t get to be Sam the Butcher, which would totally make it worth doing.

    https://nerdist.com/general-mills-cereal-monsters-cinematic-universe/

    “Work With the Monsters” is not a fan contest with a prize. General Mills is turning to Hollywood “calling all filmmakers, actors, agents, writers, producers, animators, tastemakers, dealmakers, movers and shakers” looking for creative partners with creative ways to help bring their iconic mascots to life across any and all mediums.

    “We want to work with you to bring great stories to life. From mythical fables to magical journeys. Fairy tales to folk tales. Cliffhangers to nail-biters. Heroic sagas to cosmic battles. Binge-worthy dramas to historical epics. Blockbusters to indies. Serials to sequels.”

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  4. Pat Boyle says:

    I’m simplifying of course but when I first read about this sort of thing in Hsu’s blog (Information Processing) it seemed pretty simple. We do a scan of a embryo’s genome and compute it’s polygenic score from the 3,000 or so SNPs known to be relevant to intelligence. relevant to IQ. Apparently we already can do this to predict the child’s eventual level of academic achievement.

    Therefore there is not much need for all those tedious paper and pencil IQ tests.

  5. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Pat Boyle

    There was no way to know that a Somali refugee would rape the first inviting-looking target. This was environmental. Europe will just have to get used to wearing burkas like the rest of the Islamic world.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6398169/Somali-migrant-rapes-woman-sunbather-68-beach-month-Italy-granted-refugee-status.html

  6. The researchers assigned each participant a polygenic score based on how broad genetic variations correlated with what’s called “educational attainment.”

    If you’ve used 23andme, you can get get your polygenic score for various traits using the palindromic DNA.land website by importing the 23andme data. The height trait estimate is very accurate – it got mine correct to the nearest cm. Though you could save time by actually using a measuring tape. Maybe it’s useful for estimating adult height from kids DNA? The “intelligence/educational attainment” score is a bit more dubious.

    Today’s prejudice in which blacks get many more diversity Pokemon Point points than, say, East Asians, Mexican mestizos, American Indians, Samoans, Australian aborigines, or Andaman Islanders turns out to be rather reasonable, genetically speaking.

    Until every CEO is Andamanese – preferably North Sentinelese – then I will not be satisfied.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @OP
  7. @Pat Boyle

    At what point do potential parents start doing these types of tests on fertilized eggs. I mean, what’s to stop a couple from fertilizing 10 eggs and testing them to find out which one has the best odds of being smart.

  8. Forbes says:

    Isn’t this covering (some of) the same territory as Plomin’s Blueprint, which I’m just starting to read?

  9. Big Bill says:

    “Benjamin and his co-authors included a long F.A.Q. document that carefully explained the limits of their findings, not least that they shouldn’t be used to create some sort of half-baked genetics-based educational policy.”

    Well, can we at least use it to temper the “disparate impact” and “achievement gap” legal silliness that equates all differences to Evil White Racism (personal or institutional)?

  10. anon[338] • Disclaimer says:

    And that’s kind of how people act today: when they say “Celebrate Diversity” they deep down most intensely mean “Celebrate Sub-Saharans.”

    Just look at the front page of the LA Times Calendar section since #oscarssowhite or a picture therein of the lead actors in almost any new TV show or movie.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  11. @Pat Boyle

    Pat, so then do we eliminate the children that would be a drain on society?

  12. Conley pointed out that white the white-black IQ gap seems to big …

    …while…too…

    Feel free to edit and delete comment!

  13. J.Ross says: • Website

    It’s long been known that Google censors map information in Israel for security reasons, but Medium writer Harel Dan was able to stumble across the probable locations of Patriot missile batteries using publicly available satellite data, prompting us to ask what it is that real intelligence agencies do all day — oh, that’s right, they’s still hunting the mysterious Russian hackers.

    https://medium.com/@HarelDan/x-marks-the-spot-579cdb1f534b

    http://archive.li/g6gD5

    https://rusintel.wordpress.com/2018/11/16/exclusive-all-israeli-patriot-air-defense-systems-are-leaked/

    http://archive.li/StaBT

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  14. anon[132] • Disclaimer says:

    “Pat, so then do we eliminate the children that would be a drain on society?”

    Ugh. I get sick of hearing that retort from the overly short-sighted conservatives. Did IVF mean mass euthanasia? Of course not. Embracing science by allowing couples to improve their children genetically may be the only thing that can save Western Civ judging by the way things are going; our government certainly doesn’t have any solutions. It does not mean killing anyone.

  15. anon[418] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Rule By Actress Part 66

    Rapper and Actress Azalea Banks Turns on Bernie Sanders, Declares All of America Racist:

    And previously banned by Twitter for threatening to kill somebody:

    https://dailycaller.com/2016/05/12/azealia-banks-banned-from-twitter-but-not-for-calling-for-palins-gang-rape/

    • Replies: @donut
  16. @Buffalo Joe

    Once this country splits apart, the generous welfare benefits of the “progressive” states will attract most of the negroes. That will solve most of the problems for those of us who live in the redneck world.

    I’m confident that the “progressives” will then implement the policies necessary to solve the negro problem. There will no longer be any need for the phony virtue signaling they now practice.

  17. Jamie_NYC says:

    African genetic diversity: hm, I think yes and no. Most people in East, West and South Africa are Bantu people, which are not only genetically similar, but speak closely related languages. Then, you have small number of bushmen, who are very genetically different, so that a Bantu and a Finn are genetically closer to each other than each of them is to a bushman. Similarly with Pygmies, who diverged from South African bushmen very, very long time ago, and so are genetically very different.

    Since practically all Africans brought to the new world as slaves were Bantu, I don’t think there will be a problem with excess genetic diversity there.

    • Agree: Travis
  18. Rosie says:

    And that’s kind of how people act today: when they say “Celebrate Diversity” they deep down most intensely mean “Celebrate Sub-Saharans.” Today’s prejudice in which blacks get many more diversity Pokemon Point points than, say, East Asians, Mexican mestizos, American Indians, Samoans, Australian aborigines, or Andaman Islanders turns out to be rather reasonable, genetically speaking.

    I think something like this also explains, at least in part, the media obsession with White woman-Black man pairings. Those are the two most obviously distinctive groups. Getting rid of them would be a blow to HBD in a way that getting rid of other groups would not.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  19. @Buffalo Joe

    We prefer…..ease their suffering.

    • LOL: bomag
  20. Travis says:

    it is dubious to believe that African-Americans have much more diverse DNA than white Americans. Only 250,000 Africans were brought to the United States, all from Western Africa and the addition of new African ancestry ceased in near totality by 1810.
    The vast majority of the ancestry of African Americans is colonial. The 250,000 blacks had reached a population of 22 million by 1970 and have since doubled to 42 million today with very little additional African DNA introduced from recent immigration.

    While it may be true that the continent of Africa has a very diverse population, African-Americans are not very diverse and are descendants from an initial small population of 250,000 African slaves from Western Africa, they were not a diverse group of Africans from the various regions of Africa. I suspect the problem with creating polygenic scores for African-Americans is due to the significant European DNA among them…thus Blacks with more European DNA will have higher polygenic scores.

    • Replies: @gcochran
    , @Thomas
    , @Ed
    , @Sean
    , @uman
  21. gcochran says:
    @anon

    With current tech, it surely does.

    • Replies: @megabar
  22. Sean says:

    In his recent book, Robert Plomin says he is at the 90th percentile in terms of his polygenic score for height, but even though height is the most predictive polgenic score found so far, at 6’5” his actual height is at the 99th percentile. As he says, polygenic scores for height or educational level are a better guide than prediction based on an individual’s parents’ height or educational level, so they are a real advance, and they will get better. The heritability of height is 80%, yet the correlation between the polygenic score of an individual and their actual height is 0.39. So while polygenic scores will improve, and maybe even predict the heritable variance of traits or “missing heritability” they are useful as a way of teaching us to be tolerant of others, and oneself.

    The study only draws on the DNA of white people — Europeans, Icelanders, Caucasians in North America, Australia and the United Kingdom. And that’s in part because only those groups, along with Chinese nationals, have given over their D.N.A. in large enough numbers to achieve the statistical power that geno-economics researchers need.

    Plomin does not discuss this but it is the DNA of that group in their own culture that is actually being measured, I think that polygenic scores for educational achievement in Europeans brought up in US culture culture are going to be rather misleading about the prospects of Hispanics in US culture, because Hispanic immigrants’ children and grandchildren differ from Europeans (“whites”) in their abilityto cope with permissive (“white”) Western culture.

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w24394
    Socioeconomic Integration of U.S. Immigrant Groups over the Long Term: The Second Generation and Beyond
    Brian Duncan, Stephen J. Trejo
    NBER Working Paper No. 24394
    Issued in March 2018
    NBER Program(s):Labor Studies

    Most national origin groups arrive with relatively high educational attainment and/or experience enough improvement between the first and second generations such that they quickly meet or exceed, on average, the schooling level of the typical American. Several large and important Hispanic groups (including Mexicans and Puerto Ricans) are exceptions to this pattern, however, and their prospects for future upward mobility are subject to much debate.

    https://www.economist.com/special-report/2015/03/12/from-minor-to-major

    American-born children of Hispanic immigrants tend to be less healthy than their parents*, have higher divorce rates and go to jail more often. Jump from migrants’ children to their grandchildren, and studies have shown academic results slipping in the third generation. [...] Steve Murdock of Rice University, a former boss of the US Census bureau, recently published a paper warning Texans that Hispanics are not getting enough advanced degrees and qualifications to replace highly educated whites retiring from their state’s workforce. By 2050, his study predicts, Hispanic workers will outnumber white ones in Texas by almost three to one, but without a change in education policy the state will be poorer and less competitive.

    Note that Fred Reed who actually knows from experience always talks about Mexicans in Mexico, where they are in a culture that has presumably evolved to best enable Hispanics to flourish. Mexican culture is not individualistic and like most parts of the world (especially Sub Saharan Africa) the control mechanism seems to be more an indoctrination of obligation to ones close knit extended family, rather than personal responsibility and inherent self control.

    In a highly permissive culture that does not do the heavy lifting for them, the children and children’s children of immigrants from a strict culture are thrown back on their own inherent self control, which is not equal to the task. Westerners brought up in the relatively and tight controlling Hispanic culture in Mexico would find the traditional native culture there stultifying of their potential. The West has freedom and consequent innovation and creativity because of the West’s permissive culture, but the genes for self control are doing the heavy lifting. Assimilation of second generation Hispanic immigrants is bad for them and bad for America, and I happen to think it is going to slowly but surely fail.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  23. Noted says:

    No sub saharans carry Neanderthal genes, while most of the rest of us do.

    That’s probably… a big deal.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Slugger O’Toole
    , @anon
  24. J.Ross says: • Website

    Listen: Radical. Cram. School.
    Put down the math and pick up the Malatesta.

    In this episode of RADICAL CRAM SCHOOL, Auntie Kristina tests the Young Rebels to see if they’ve been tainted by the patriarchy, and finds out why Hello Kitty doesn’t have a mouth. RADICAL CRAM SCHOOL is a kid-centric, unscripted web series created by comedian Kristina Wong that empowers Asian girls and all kids of color to embrace their identities, fight for social justice, and be the revolution.

    For Kristina Wong: OFFICIAL SITE: http://www.kristinawong.com

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Lowe
  25. Corvinus says:

    “Because sub-Saharans are genetically rather different from the rest of humanity.”

    OR, all non-Africans can be thought of as a subset of the genetic variation of Africans.

    “And that’s kind of how people act today: when they say “Celebrate Diversity” they deep down most intensely mean “Celebrate Sub-Saharans.”

    No, that would be your desperate effort to craft a narrative.

    “Today’s prejudice in which blacks get many more diversity Pokemon Point points than, say, East Asians, Mexican mestizos, American Indians, Samoans, Australian aborigines, or Andaman Islanders turns out to be rather reasonable, genetically speaking.”

    Who/Whom?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational, meh
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  26. unit472 says:

    On the problem of there being ‘insufficient’ genetic data on Africans. Perhaps true for Africans but in the US the DNA data base on convicted felons should be a large enough data base to study African Americans especially if it could be compared to the more limited African American population with DNA profiles who have ( not yet) been convicted of felonies.

    My guess is there is a larger percentage of African American criminals with DNA profiles than of white Americans who have taken DNA tests.

    • Replies: @Hodag
    , @anon
  27. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Conley pointed out that white the white-black IQ gap

    while

  28. Corvinus says:
    @anon

    “Embracing science by allowing couples to improve their children genetically…”

    That is something bio-ethicists will debate. So, how does this “improvement” fit with religious doctrine? To what extent will Christians be theologically pressed to think through questions of morality on this matter?

    “may be the only thing that can save Western Civ judging by the way things are going;”

    Except Americans generally view matters from an American, rather than Western Civilization, lens. Although I am certain you are married and have 4+ children, since you are part of the solution, right?

    “our government certainly doesn’t have any solutions.”

    Must it have these “solutions”? Should not family formation be a decision best left up to the individual rather than the state?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Alfa158
  29. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    He went into his program believing that our social environment is largely the cause of our outcomes, and that biology is usually the dependent variable.

    For privileged people who grew up among smart people in nice communities, it may seem that way. But for most of us who’ve grown up in the new world, we don’t need Ph.Ds and extensive data to know that genetics matter. I was in Diversity Central from 75 to 79, and I’ve seen things that cannot be explained by social theories. To be sure, power of ideology is such that I came under sway of PBS and sociology classes in high school and etc. But back to the real world, and there you see the differences again. Rl.d is cheaper than Ph.D. Doctor of Reality.

    • Agree: NickG
  30. L Woods says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    The low-iq ditch digger is a far greater contributor to society than the high-iq financier.

  31. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Pat, so then do we eliminate the children that would be a drain on society?

    You know what might be a future idear? Genetic locking. Tweak the DNA so that a person can produce kids only with others with the same ‘keys’. So, if some Jews are upset that too many are marrying OUT, then they can lock the Jewish genes so that Jews can have kids only with other Jews with the same genetic codes. It won’t prevent interracial sex but will prevent miscegenation.

    It will be like the New Covenant at the genetic level. Not just an idea but locked within the genes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Mr. Rational
  32. @Buffalo Joe

    But what if being stupid is an adaptive advantage? Perhaps even a strong one?

    That’s the amusing thing about all of this: everyone assumes that intelligence is an adaptive advantage, while we watch the “smart” and disciplined people contracept themselves out of the gene pool. The stupid and ill disciplined are having most, almost all of the children. The future belongs to them. Unless, of course, the nazis return – come out of hiding – and start eugenically eliminating a whole bunch of people..

    Stupidity has its advantages – stupid people are more amendable to repetitive, physical labor. Not having imagination and intelligence probably makes people on average more psychologically adapted to violence, and less neurotic in general. In most environments, one only needs a certain threshold of intelligence (what, an IQ of about 70 or 80?) to survive, even flourish. Until the rise of automation and computers these past 50 years, society needed a plurality of stupid people to do the scut work, be human cogs in the factories, man the attrition infantry.. It’s only as the economy becomes more and more abstract now, that people on the left side of the bell curve are no longer as useful.

    If technological civilization collapses – due perhaps to the environmental and military effects of the technology itself, the product of the “smart” people – then maybe stupidity will rule once more.. Again, it only takes an IQ of 50 or so to effectively wield a club, or efficiently smash (say) an astro physicist’s head open with a rock.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  33. megabar says:
    @gcochran

    > With current tech, [saving Western civ] surely [means killing people].

    As a thought experiment, consider what could be done with infinite political will. For example, people below some criteria (e.g. requiring welfare assistance, criminal convictions, etc) could only have children from adaptive sperm donors — perhaps matched to their race so the child is like them. Is controlling the father’s DNA enough?

    You could match this with political action to limit the damage until these actions take effect. For example, the same people would have to choose between their vote or an amount of assistance.

    I know that’ll never happen, nor am I sure it would be enough. I’m merely saying that meaningful change _could_ be done with current tech and nothing terribly immoral, in the great scheme of things.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  34. @Noted

    Good point. But since African Americans are from 15% to 75% European they must have measurable Neanderthal DNA.

    • Replies: @Noted
  35. megabar says:

    > when they say “Celebrate Diversity” they deep down most intensely mean “Celebrate Sub-Saharans.”

    It certainly seems that way when watching TV or movies. I’d guess that Hispanics are the least represented, compared to their actual prevalence. Or perhaps Native Americans.

  36. Most of the time blacks seem like a necessary but not sufficient main Diversity ingredient. One notable exception is Black colleges which are maximally diverse because they’re full of blacks. But in other contexts where blacks are already well represented, Diversity can increase by replacing remaining whites with people of other colors.

    A place like Harvard probably prides itself on its Diversity, but even Harvard isn’t crazy enough to make serial incoming classes 100% black, even if that could be perceived as a pinnacle of Diversity. Harvard gives the most bonus points to blacks under its entrance criteria (while saddling Asians and whites with negative points), but there seems to be a quota beyond which other factors supersede increases to Diversity by adding more blacks.

    I think one of the things we miss because most of us are critiquing institutions from outside of their gates is that Diversity by adding a certain figure of blacks isn’t so much remedial anymore as a necessary step to keeping social peace and elevating the institution above certain criticism.

  37. @Sean

    ‘…but the genes for self control…’

    Genes for self-control? I’m all for arguments that give due weight to genetic factors — but it’s possible to get carried away.

    • Replies: @Sean
  38. Lugash says:

    How do you say Tiny Duck in Hindi?

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @anon
    , @J.Ross
  39. @Corvinus

    For you it’s not who/whom, it’s much/more; as in, how much/more have you had to drink since 5pm?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  40. gcochran says:
    @Travis

    Wrong. 250,000 is a big enough sample to preserve almost all the variation that existed in west Africa.

    • Replies: @Thomas
    , @utu
    , @Steve Sailer
    , @Travis
  41. gcochran says:
    @megabar

    Sure, you could do quite a bit, but they’re talking embryo selection.

  42. anon[248] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: The Atlantic [magazine]: What [giving The Presidential Medal of Freedom to] Elvis and Babe Ruth Say About Donald Trump

    There aren’t as many names to go on for Trump, but the picks so far seem to reflect a few things about his personality. One, he is a big fan of celebrities and athletes, who make up four of his seven awardees. Second, he is strongly partisan-minded and highly critical of the press. Obama picked George H. W. Bush; Bush’s son chose the Washington Post publisher Katharine Graham and the former New York Times editor A. M. Rosenthal. It’s all but impossible to imagine Trump reaching across the aisle or celebrating journalists. Indeed, Scalia was a towering conservative figure, and Hatch a Republican stalwart. Adelson is a more peculiar pick. Other presidents have selected campaign donors (Obama chose Warren Buffett, for example), but seldom has one picked an honoree who is most famous for political giving.

    Still, it’s Presley and Ruth who stick out most. First, they are dead. A very small portion of past picks have been posthumous, and when they are, the honorees tend to be either recently deceased (Scalia, Alexander Calder, John Wayne, Count Basie) or underappreciated in their lifetime (Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, who died in 1992 and was honored in 2016; Martin Luther King Jr.; Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner). It can hardly be said that either Elvis or Babe Ruth was denied acclaim in his lifetime. Presley even had his own (in)famous visit to the White House.

    One reason Trump might gravitate to the deceased is that living celebrities tend overwhelmingly to oppose him, raising the danger that they would refuse the honor. This year, the Trumps are once again skipping the Kennedy Center Honors gala, usually a staple presidential event, lest they receive a hostile greeting.

    Read More:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/11/trump-presidential-medal-freedom-white-nostalgia

    Why didn’t Trump select a golfer or wrestler for this totally made-up useless “medal”?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  43. anon[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash

    What caste is she?

  44. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    If you go back to a book of classical physical anthropology like Carleton Coon’s 1965 bestseller The Living Races of Man, Coon figured Europeans and sub-Saharans were closer to each other than they were to East Asians, New World Indians, and Australians. In Coon’s thinking, the giant mountains of central Asia were the main divide, not the Sahara and Congo rainforest. But early DNA evidence in the 1980s eventually pointed toward a sub-Saharan vs. everybody else model.

    The genetic distance between sub-Saharans and Europeans is smaller than that between sub-Saharans and East Asians et al. Though the genetic distance between Europeans and East Asians et al is smaller than that between either and sub-Saharans. So Coon wasn’t completely off the mark.

  45. Thomas says:
    @Travis

    Beat me to it. Add to that “all from a relatively small, concentrated part of Western Africa convenient to the coasts,” for the most part. No reason that wasn’t a bottleneck itself.

  46. J.Ross says: • Website

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/michael-avenattis-law-firm-getting-evicted

    Michael Avenatti’s law firm has been evicted from its building after failing to pay rent and losing a final appeal.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  47. Thomas says:
    @gcochran

    Wrong. 250,000 is a big enough sample to preserve almost all the variation that existed in west Africa.

    That depends on whether that 250,000 was representative or not. No reason to assume slavery grabbed a representative, random sample of West Africans.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  48. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Lugash

    “I have only observed your culture a short while through the lens of your major media, but already I am certain that everything white people do is evil.”

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  49. Wilkey says:

    “Coon figured Europeans and sub-Saharans were closer to each other than they were to East Asians, New World Indians, and Australians. In Coon’s thinking, the giant mountains of central Asia were the main divide, not the Sahara and Congo rainforest.”

    The people of Sub-Saharan Africa were just a short hop, skip, and a jump from Europe – just a journey on foot or camel across a desert the size of the United States and 1,100 miles wide, then cross a sea that is 500 miles wide, on average.

    Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but it hardly seems to make sense to assume whites are genetically closer to Africans than to Asians. History is replete with all sorts of East/West contacts, from Alexander invading eastward to the Mongols and Turks invading westward, and Indo-European languages spread from Iceland in the west to India in the east. In contrast, S.S. Africa barely enters the picture until the 1800s. Portuguese and Spanish navigators almost seem to have thought of Africa more as an obstacle than a destination in itself.

    • Replies: @songbird
  50. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:

    “That is something bio-ethicists will debate. So, how does this “improvement” fit with religious doctrine? To what extent will Christians be theologically pressed to think through questions of morality on this matter?”

    Another nonsensical question /answer / assertion from Unz’s worst faux intellectual. “Hey everyone, how about we work on this epidemic of fatherless children and single parent homes thing?” Corvinus: “But what will the Mormons think, huh?”

    “To what extent will Christians…”

    You could have said the same thing about IVF. Lots of people did.

    “Except Americans generally view matters from an American, rather than Western Civilization, lens. Although I am certain you are married and have 4+ children, since you are part of the solution, right?”

    1) For a nation that only views matters through an American lens, we seem to have an awful lot of military bases and alliances with other members of this Western Civilization thing. Brilliant analysis otherwise, though.

    2) Giving people the option of genetic engineering in no manner implies that one wants or advocates for larger families. One can support other similar technologies such as IVF without also supporting 8 kids per family. But since you totally missed the “IVF” reference and proceeded to your usual strawman arguments, I’m sure you already knew that.

    “Must it have these “solutions”?”

    Yeah, it probably should have solutions to civilization-ending crises. When we go to war, we expect our government to create and implement solutions. That’s what governments are for.

    “Should not family formation be a decision best left up to the individual rather than the state.”

    You assume much, don’t you? I never said anything about taking away anyone’s decision, but rather giving people the option in the first place. Shouldn’t these technologies be up to individuals and not to guys like yourself?

  51. @J.Ross

    Why is Michael Avenatti approximately the third most famous person in America in 2018?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @J.Ross
    , @Forbes
  52. anon[354] • Disclaimer says:

    “Genes for self-control? I’m all for arguments that give due weight to genetic factors — but it’s possible to get carried away.”

    Genetic background of extreme violent behavior

    “Our results, from two independent cohorts of Finnish prisoners, revealed that a monoamine oxidase A (MAOA) low-activity genotype (contributing to low dopamine turnover rate) as well as the CDH13 gene (coding for neuronal membrane adhesion protein) are associated with extremely violent behavior (at least 10 committed homicides, attempted homicides or batteries)”

    “These results indicate both low monoamine metabolism and neuronal membrane dysfunction as plausible factors in the etiology of extreme criminal violent behavior, and imply that at least about 5–10% of all severe violent crime in Finland is attributable to the aforementioned MAOA and CDH13 genotypes.”

    https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2014130?error=cookies_not_supported&code=dabad3c6-a7d2-4986-9eee-e616e8dae6c6

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  53. @J.Ross

    So would this technique work with the S-300 missile batteries in Syria which the Russophiles on Unz state are a big impediment to unilateral Israeli air actions? Could Israel locate S-300 missile launchers using miniature ELINT systems e.g. hiding and camouflaging such things as civilian satellite receivers?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  54. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Must it have these “solutions”? Should not family formation be a decision best left up to the individual rather than the state?

    The healthy and volkisch State should have an influence-voluntary measures are far better than none at all, and some people should be discouraged by incentive from breeding. Other cases are not as cut and dried-what do we do with the Bree Walkers of the world? Dealing with Bree Walker is a moral decision we have to make, one way or the other. 72 IQ Queefisha and Shi’i’tavius there isn’t a whole lot of question about. They can’t raise kids to succeed even if the kids were not 72 IQ themselves. We have a society where 72 IQ people are certain net liabilities to everyone.

    A program that voluntarily rewards the astronauts, SEALs and Nobel Prize winners for donating sperm so couples who are going to use AI (because hubby’s tadpoles are not doing the job or Hubby has some genetic tendency he himself realizes is bad and should not propagate) can propagate those genes would be good too.

    Knowingly making babies that are doomed to terrible lives and burdens to society is the most egregious violation of the Golden Rule imaginable.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @HA
  55. anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    “Why is Michael Avenatti approximately the third most famous person in America in 2018?”

    Because the democrat NY-LA-DC media hates Donald Trump and his voters with a passion. They have promoted guys like Michael Avenatti in response because those guys will attack Trump on their behalf; instead of CNN and NBC directly attacking president Trump with their supposed news outfits – sullying them – they’ll sometimes use a photogenic guy like Avenatti to do it, instead. They do this so they can both keep their hands clean while maintaining the illusion of impartiality while also enticing his demographic to their side. They think that because he’s white, Avenatti’s attacks will have extra influence, especially among white middle-class voters who might otherwise support the president. It’s the same reason why republicans used to have a couple of black guys like J.C. Watts hanging around as they attacked welfare spending: they were used as a shield against counter accusations of bias (racism) while also being a means of (wishfully) enticing fellow black guys to support their policies. Like goes with like, that kind of thing. At least, that’s their simplistic worldview, anyway.

    • Replies: @Redman
    , @ben tillman
  56. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    He’s a really energetic guy. He’s a pro racecar driver on the side too.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  57. peterike says:

    OT: Diversity!!!

    Chinese woman attacks people in “birth tourism” center with hatchet. In Queens.

    A Queens facility that serves as a boarding house for Chinese “tourist babies” became a scene of horror early Friday when a worker stabbed three newborns and two adults there before trying to kill herself, police and sources said. The carnage happened at around 3:45 a.m. in the three-story home in Flushing, where workers provide care to babies born in the US in exchange for thousands of dollars..

    https://nypost.com/2018/09/21/infants-among-wounded-in-queens-day-care-stabbing/

    Chinese immigrants are great for America!!

    More recent story:

    https://nypost.com/2018/11/16/nanny-accused-of-day-care-stabbing-spree-i-was-trying-to-kill-wolves/

    The crazed nanny who allegedly stabbed three infants at a “birth tourism” day care center in Queens said she saw and was trying to kill “wolves” during the bloody rampage.

    But Chinese girls are cute and will date white male nerds!!

  58. Anonym says:

    Conley pointed out that while the white-black IQ gap seems too big to be explained by the white-black income gap, it’s not too big to be explained by the white-black wealth gap. But, of course, which way does causality more flow: from wealth to IQ or from IQ to wealth? And which would be more causally relevant to IQ: income, consumption, or wealth?

    Here are some examples of IQ massively enhanced by wealth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4443958/The-couples-split-winning-LOTTERY.html

    As they say, a fool and his money will soon generate some good life experiences, which in a perfect world might generate some wisdom.

  59. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer

    He’s an aggressive self-promoter who stumbled across the freak credulity wave of people who desperately want Trump to be guilty of something.

  60. notanon says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    we don’t need to do anything

    just tell the truth and women will make different decisions on who they choose to be the father of their children

    say for the sake of argument
    - 10% of women have kids with men in the next higher IQ decile
    - 80% of women have kids with men in the same IQ decile
    - 10% of women have kids with men in the next lower IQ decile

    and it shifted to
    - 15% of women have kids with men in the next higher IQ decile
    - 80% of women have kids with men in the same IQ decile
    - 5% of women have kids with men in the next lower IQ decile

    that would push the average up without doing anything.

    • Replies: @Slugger O’Toole
  61. anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    “Michael Avenatti’s law firm has been evicted from its building after failing to pay rent and losing a final appeal.”

    It’s scary to think this “alleged” amoral psychopath was actually going to run for president and maybe even win. What was the Left’s argument against Trump again? They embraced an “alleged” woman beater and “alleged” serial liar/scumbag bigot who “allegedly” peddled blatantly anti-white rhetoric for months on CNN and MSNBC for personal gain – money to pay his rent, allegedly, and fame to run for president, also allegedly. Amazing that the Left cried out in pain as they embraced a guy like this to strike us back.

  62. anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    I am so tired of pictures of Asian people screaming.

  63. utu says:
    @gcochran

    If you did random sampling. Catching slaves was not random.

  64. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Joe Stalin

    It was claimed that that was done earlier and this may be revenge for that. All military hardware that was not specifically designed for the current level of satellite surveillance is probably visible given the right position and criterion. During the Iraq invasion we knew the position and launch site of every single Scud and Seersucker within seconds of launch. One very early on flew over a headquarters camp, where I was observing Meat Loaf sing I Would Do Anything for Love on a laptop, and proceeded onward to slightly vandalize a Kuwaiti shopping mall; I don’t think any others got all that far from their launching sites. Hizbullah was able to bother Israel with its katyushas only because of great discipline and mobility.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  65. anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    The adventures of Buckaroo Avenatti in the Ninth Dimension.

  66. anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike

    Stabbing little babies, legal or not?

    Jesus wept.

  67. Alfa158 says:
    @Corvinus

    On current trends it appears Christians and Westerners won’t be worrying about this issue. The Chinese are going full bore on genetically engineering superior humans. Maybe somebody should produce a sci-fi movie about a future of pale skinned, round-eyed Chinese rulers who look like the heroes on old Red Chinese paintings, are 6’3” and have 150 average IQ’s. Captain Kirk can be shown crying out “Chennnnnn!!!! instead of “Khannnnnn!!!!
    I would have donated a DNA sample to the Beijing Genomics Institute when they were soliciting samples from high intelligence individuals from all over the world for their research project, but sadly I didn’t meet the intelligence criteria. Another instance where I was wishing that I had been born smart instead of good-looking.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  68. J.Ross says: • Website
    @peterike

    This is the standard criminal with no psych degree trying for an insanity defense. There was a guy who shot up his office, and to arresting officers he would only say “I’m sorry, I don’t speak German.” Claimed he found himself in Castle Wolfenstein, or the only movie Hollywood knows how to make any more: surrounded not by co-workers but evil uniformed Nazis. Then they checked his internet search records and saw he had repeatedly googled about faking insanity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @BB753
  69. Sean says:
    @Colin Wright

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29404830

    This study used a theoretically-derived set of items of the Achenbach System of Empirically Based Assessment to develop the Achenbach Self-Control Scale (ASCS) for 7-16 year olds. Using a large dataset of over 20,000 children, who are enrolled in the Netherlands Twin Register, we demonstrated the psychometric properties of the ASCS for parent-, self- and teacher-report by examining internal and criterion validity, and inter-rater and test-retest reliability. We found associations between the ASCS and measures of well-being, educational achievement, and substance use. Next, we applied the classical twin design to estimate the genetic and environmental contributions to self-control. Genetic influences accounted for 64-75% of the variance in self-control based on parent- and teacher-report (age 7-12), and for 47-49% of the variance in self-control based on self-report (age 12-16), with the remaining variance accounted by non-shared environmental influences. In conclusion, we developed a validated and accessible self-control scale, and show that genetic influences explain a majority of the individual differences in self-control across youth aged 7-16 years.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  70. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    I was told by a former hostage negotiator that if I ever went nuts and decided to take hostages, always make sure to make one absolutely ludicrous demand along with whatever else I wanted, so in the event I survived the rescue assault I could at least credibly claim insanity and wind up in the nut house rather than prison, as nut houses were a lot more comfortable.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  71. L Woods says:
    @peterike

    The occasional spree stabbing is a small price to pay for the reduction of white female pussy power tbh.

  72. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    To me, it’s a sign of just how dumb the Islamic terrorists (jihadis, whatever) are that they have not come up with the idea of making drones of their own. If a farm kid and future TV repairman like the late Bernard Pietenpol could build an airplane with a Model A Ford engine that actually flew pretty well in 1933, these rocket surgeons should be able to at least build a drone using a Raspberry Pi and some sort of common engine that would give them some aerial intelligence gathering.

  73. Corvinus says:
    @Alfa158

    “On current trends it appears Christians and Westerners won’t be worrying about this issue.”

    Of course, since genetically modifying human beings, especially with unproven techniques, creates several ethical and possibly legal dilemmas.

    “The Chinese are going full bore on genetically engineering superior humans.”

    Let’s dial it back it a bit. In an Atlantic Council panel on gene editing in September 2016, Dr. Pierre Noel, a professor at the Mayo Clinic and a non-resident fellow at the Brent Scowcroft Center on International Security, agreed the technique could be a threat. “It’s possible that in the future, as the technology becomes more sophisticated, countries may be able to implement gene-editing technology to design…super soldiers…with great muscle force and strength.”

    “Maybe somebody should produce a sci-fi movie about a future of pale skinned, round-eyed Chinese rulers who look like the heroes on old Red Chinese paintings, are 6’3” and have 150 average IQ’s. Captain Kirk can be shown crying out “Chennnnnn!!!! instead of “Khannnnnn!!!!”

    Now that is funny!

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  74. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “The healthy and volkisch State should have an influence-voluntary measures are far better than none at all.”

    We already have tax credits and spending programs to help families afford child care. But specific government backed policies that, for example, encourage whites, rather than non-whites, to pop out kids like Pez dispensers, wreaks of statism.

    “There is a difference and some people should be discouraged by incentive from breeding.”

    Tell you what. Quit your job and dedicate your time and energy on that endeavor. I will even buy you a bullhorn, so long as you record yourself once a week and give us a monthly report.

    “Other cases are not as cut and dried-what do we do with the Bree Walkers of the world? Dealing with Bree Walker is a moral decision we have to make, one way or the other.”

    It is a decision left to her parents, not the government, and assuredly, not you.

    “72 IQ Queefisha and Shi’i’tavius there isn’t a whole lot of question about.”

    That would be around 2% of the population.

    “They can’t raise kids to succeed even if the kids were not 72 IQ themselves.”

    Not really your place to say.

    “We have a society where 72 IQ people are certain net liabilities to everyone.”

    And that is why you do not value human life.

    “A program that voluntarily rewards the astronauts, SEALs and Nobel Prize winners for donating sperm so couples who are going to use AI (because hubby’s tadpoles are not doing the job or Hubby has some genetic tendency he himself realizes is bad and should not propagate) can propagate those genes would be good too.”

    Who/Whom?

    “Knowingly making babies that are doomed to terrible lives and burdens to society is the most egregious violation of the Golden Rule imaginable.”

    That is a false premise on your part.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  75. songbird says:
    @Wilkey

    1965 seems kind of late to have such an idea. There were the Tarim mummies for one thing. All the species that have a geographic range over Eurasia.

  76. Coemgen says:
    @peterike

    But Chinese east-asian girls are cute and will date actually like white male nerds!!

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  77. @gcochran

    250,000 is a big number (and I thought the number of black slaves taken to the U.S. was more in the 400,000s).

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @gregor
  78. Lowe says:
    @J.Ross

    Is that some kind of satire?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  79. Anonymous[527] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    This is more or less the definition of a species.

  80. gcochran says:
    @Thomas

    Speculate all you want. We’ve already looked, and measured.

    • Replies: @Glaivester
  81. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:

    o/t

    Skilled labor shortage is changing metro Detroit’s restaurant industry

    Hardy, who previously worked in New York and Miami, pointed to the relatively small size of the immigrant back-of-house presence here compared with other cities. The current administration’s hard-line stance on immigration hasn’t helped change that — a point brought up by both Riley and Eid.
    “In New York, you have so many different cultures that are accustomed to food and dining and other cuisines,” Hardy said. “We don’t have that here, which is hard.

    Something, something, recipes…

    In addition to his work with Cleary, Hardy has found success hiring formerly incarcerated men, including two cooks and two dishwashers.
    “If they were in prison, they were trained in there and they have a good skill set,” Hardy said. “And they’re a little more disciplined. So they get the job done, versus wanting to be a rock star chef in the next year.”

    Riley said you could comfortably pay line cooks $11 or $12 an hour two years ago and now you’re looking at ranges from $13 on the low end to $18-$20 near the top.

    Buried near the bottom

    https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/dining/mark-kurlyandchik/2018/11/15/skilled-labor-shortage-changing-metro-detroit-restaurants/1933709002/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  82. Glaivester says: • Website
    @gcochran

    …and the results are?

    • Replies: @gcochran
  83. J.Ross says: • Website

    South African uncompensated land seizure is not happening, and when I saw it is not happening, I mean there is a reasonable amount of it but it would be racist to discuss it.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/743025/south-africa-land-seizures-white-farmers-constitutional-change

    This is not genocide. Genocide is when you target, demean, and kill off a people in an efficient manner. Set up a few committees and it’s all a-o-kay.

  84. J.Ross says: • Website

    “In New York, you have so many different cultures that are accustomed to food and dining and other cuisines,” Hardy said. “We don’t have that [in Detroit], which is hard.”
    Go back to Ohio and stop pretending to know anything about Detroit you obvious crypto-Buckeye kurwa.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  85. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Lowe

    It’s two kinds, for either level of consciousness.

  86. CRITICS COUNTER THAT THEIR METHODS ARE NAÏVE, OFFENSIVE OR BOTH, BUT ALL AGREE: EITHER WAY, MULTIGENE TESTING WILL LEAD TO A SOCIAL UPHEAVAL.

    “Either” way? What are the two options?

    More idiocracy at the NYT.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  87. @Rosie

    I think something like this also explains, at least in part, the media obsession with White woman-Black man pairings. Those are the two most obviously distinctive groups.

    They are not. The genetic distance between SSA’s and East Asians is much greater than that between SSA’a and Whites.

    And the obsession with White woman/Black man pairings is due to the media’s desire to destroy the White race, although the fact that Black admixture is the most destructive surely has something to do with it.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  88. Ed says:
    @Travis

    In Skip Gates genealogy show Keenan Ivory Wayans was found to have a Malay ancestor in fact his paternal haplogroup is not in the Africa continent at all. Evidently about 2% of slaves brought to the USA were from Madagascar.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  89. anon[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Noted

    For sure.
    Was there anything unusual about Neanderthal anthropometry, e.g., the radius and ulna being longer proportionally than the humerus, so that a Clean couldn’t be racked on the Deltoids, as we saw in that picture of acting A.G. Whittaker the other day?

  90. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    “Other cases are not as cut and dried-what do we do with the Bree Walkers of the world? Dealing with Bree Walker is a moral decision we have to make, one way or the other.”

    It is a decision left to her parents, not the government, and assuredly, not you.

    Corvy, you’re ignorant of who Bree Walker is and why her actions might present a moral decision needing to be made.

    Do a little research, and get back to us. We are interested in your input once you understand the real issue.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  91. anon[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @fitzhamilton

    It happened at the Australian Tennis Open earlier in the year.
    A couple of Sudanese yoofs approached a visiting New York neurosurgeon for a spare smoke outside the arena, and when he demurred, knocked him out, causing a subdural hematoma.
    Anyway, Dr. Horowitz flew back to Oz for the recent Trial, where he forgave the perps.
    Mighty White of him, I reckon.

    • Replies: @Lowe
  92. @Pat Boyle

    You state GWAS “seemed pretty simple.” Is that meant as a joke or an ironic comment? Perhaps the concept of GWAS is simple (that is arguable) but GWAS is extremely difficult and complex to implement. The technical machinery necessary to read the genome of each of a million individuals took a hundred years of work by teams of scientists to develop. It is an incredible scientific achievement. The statistical methodologies to produce polygenic scores are also technically sophisticated. Read “The Gene” by Siddhartha Mukherjee to get a taste of some of the difficulties that needed to overcome.

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
  93. DPG says:

    For those curious, if my memory serves me the Nobel winner Steve is referring to is economist James Heckman. I recall Steve telling a story about him being rather aggressive on the HBD listserv way back when. Economists seem to be the pushiest in debates, perhaps because they’re emboldened by how pathetic humanities academics are, without ever having to face the humbling empirical results of perfectly controlled, repeatable natural experiments.

  94. EdwardM says:

    With the candidate-gene method, you had to essentially guess which genes might be involved, and usually got it wrong. “With G.W.A.S., you look at the whole genome and let the data tell you where there’s variation,” Benjamin says.

    Once a G.W.A.S. shows genetic effects across a group, a “polygenic score” can be assigned to individuals, summarizing the genetic patterns that correlate to outcomes found in the group. Although no one genetic marker might predict anything, this combined score based on the entire genome can be a predictor of all sorts of things.

    At first glance, this technique looks like p-hacking.

    “Essentially guess[ing] which genes might be involved” and then testing is the typically correct inferential approach.

    • Replies: @gcochran
    , @Peter Johnson
  95. @Ed

    That’s pretty interesting.

    In South Africa, a non-trivial % of the “Colored” group’s ancestry is Malay, although I don’t know whether they come from their homeland in southeast Asia or from Madagascar.

    • Replies: @Ed
  96. Noted says:
    @Slugger O’Toole

    Good point. But since African Americans are from 15% to 75% European they must have measurable Neanderthal DNA.

    I was referring to black people. Not mulattos. Part of the confusion of discussing black people is their ironic insistence on the “one drop” rule. Remember when they used to complain about it, back when “colored” folks were eager to be identified as such? Back in the day, colored folks would actually take offense if you referred to them as black. Now they get unglued if you point out that they truly aren’t.

    People are silly things.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  97. I lnew that Vitamain K was called that because it promotes blood coagulation, and the German-speaking scientist who discovered it named it for the german word for coagulation, which starts with a K; but I didn’t realise Vitamin D was called that because it is the vitamin for Diversity. Is there any specific meaning to D3?

  98. @fitzhamilton

    “everyone assumes that intelligence is an adaptive advantage, while we watch the “smart” and disciplined people contracept themselves out of the gene pool. The stupid and ill disciplined are having most, almost all of the children”

    Globally that’s correct. But inside Western societies it’s facilitated by welfare states designed for (in Europe, certainly) white people who’d fallen on hard times. The Muslim (and Orthodox) UK populations wouldn’t be expanding at their current rates without it.

    There are cultural differences too – Muslims will raise four or more children in a three-bed Victorian terrace, whereas native Brits (whose great grandparents would have raised four or more children in a three-bed Victorian terrace) increasingly think each child “must” have their own room (with TV and internet).

    (On a more general note, it’s good to see stuff like this in the NYT. The genetics tide is coming in and the people who are still in Lewontin-land are slowly becoming more isolated)

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  99. @Steve Sailer

    If we can believe Rep. Major Owens, you way underestimate the numbers.

    This sort of BS, that the slave trade was more about genocide than economics, and the theory that all the Dem racists of the 60s and earlier flipped to the GOP to elect Nixon, a theory now being promoted in American public schools, goes a long way toward explaining AA hostility toward whitey, particularly the GOP and conservatives, and the American system today.

  100. Hodag says:
    @unit472

    Nope. The genetic testing of felons is much more limited than the full genome sampling involved in UKBiobank and 23andMe. 25 year old technolfy. Ancestry.com and 23andMe have the genomes and probably the data but it is proprietary.

    • Replies: @anon
  101. Altai says:

    The word “diversity” is notoriously slippery in meaning, but the way modern Americans seem to use it as referring to a sort of Vitamin D that is good for you. Blacks have the most Vitamin D, and so the more blacks you have the more Diverse you are, which is for your own good.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D

  102. anon[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @unit472

    Exactly.

    And why not?

    Let me guess. Outcomes would be uncomfortably awful. Everybody knows.

    The Bureau of Prisons is uniquely careful with their data.

    Everybody knows/nobody cares.

  103. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    There are people who can afford to, and would, screen their embryos for polygenic scores, but those people generally produce so few embryos, so late in life, that they’ll take what they get.

  104. Realist says:

    Suggestion: when writing about IQ and race, DON’T USE ALL CAPS.

    Better suggestion….never use all caps.

  105. BB753 says:
    @Corvinus

    ““72 IQ Queefisha and Shi’i’tavius there isn’t a whole lot of question about.”

    That would be around 2% of the population.”

    If only! Even if your low number were accurate, two percent of the population is an incredible strain on society. On a smaller scale, imagine that 2 of your second cousins were idiots and the rest of your extended family and yourself, 98 people, had to take care of them, feed and clothe them (and their 7 bastard kids ), get them out of jail, send them to rehab, etc. With the added bonus that those idiots hated and slandered the rest of you, sometimes even stole from you, figuratively bit the hand that feeds them. Would you still love them and provide for them? Wouldn’t they be a greater problem than their small would suggest?
    You should spend more time around real morons, and I don’t mean your liberal friends, so you could truly grasp what kind of threat they are to rest of us.

  106. Anonymous[527] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Well, there you go. If you’re a liberal, some of the best restaurant workers are former felons because they picked up some useful lunchroom experience during their 5-10. Much better than those lazy prudes applying for the spot whose only experience is working exactly the same job for one of your competitors. They’re all the same, not one has the vibrant joie de vivre of a penitentiary alumni. Never mind the missing silverware or the violent confrontation behind the back of the building with the occasional teenage drug addict who came up short, no these guys are disciplined, and they have the neck tattoos to prove it. And if you’re running a bit low on homemade toilet wine or need a shank in a pinch, they gots your back.

  107. donut says:
    @anon

    Tom Terrific and his Thinking Cap :

  108. Anonymous[527] • Disclaimer says:

    A little vitamin D goes a long way. Take too much and you’ve got a Detroit or Haiti on your hands.

  109. Sean says:
    @Travis

    Africans are diverse in the sense of being divergent: having the DNA that is least like Europeans’.

    I suspect the problem with creating polygenic scores for African-Americans is due to the significant European DNA among them

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5291340/

    The challenge of population stratification raises two important considerations for the integration of genome-wide data into social science research. First, it highlights the potential racial specificity of GWAS findings because the particular SNPs identified in GWAS may be differently associated with the true causal loci due to differences in “linkage disequilibria” (e.g., Reich et al. 2001). This implies that a particular SNP measured in GWAS may be highly correlated with an unmeasured causal variant in one population, but not in another. [...] The second consideration raised by the challenge of population stratification is that residual confounding may be present even within samples designed to be racially homogenous. Subtle, genome-wide allele frequency differences exist within even relatively narrowly defined European-descent populations

    My reading of the above is that Blacks with more European DNA will have higher polygenic scores. but that may often be relatively deceptive as to their actual abilities.

    Plomin’s book suggests that he thinks an actual use for polgenic scores might be, for example, high achieving parents who want their child to pursue a demanding field but the child would rather be an artisan. A polgenic score for educational attainment might show the parents that the career their child wishes to pursue is more relevant that their dream. However, black parents might get misleadingly high polygenic scores as ammunition to think their offspring’s mediocre attainment was because they were lazy. Or held down by white racism.

    Polygenic scores for blacks are going to be uses to scientifically prove that they are victimsed by white society. The experts in the polygenic field will seize with alacrity on the unexpectedly high polgenic scores for educational attainment of African Americans to validate tpolgenic score research and methods as antiracist, and polygenic scores will be used as a battering ram for affirmative action at the expense of whites.

  110. Travis says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    cost of IVF is $25,000 and failure rate is 50%. But even if the cost drops significantly most women would not choose to go thru the invasive medical procedure and hormone treatments just to potentially increase the IQ of their offspring by 10%.

    most women would probably choose to have a taller more athletic son than a slightly smarter boy if given the choice. When choosing a girl embryo most parents would choose the pretty girl with Blue eyes over the girl with a higher polygenic score. For generations Women have had the ability to select mates , knowing their offspring will be based on their mate selection…and we can see the results of their choices.

    • Replies: @ZeroDay
  111. Ed says:
    @Steve Sailer

    In South Africa they are an actual subgroup of coloureds called Cape Malays but like you I don’t know if they’re from Madagascar or Malaysia. I’m guessing some were directly from Malaysia due to the Dutch connection between S. Africa and Malaysia.

  112. BB753 says:
    @J.Ross

    So what’s your take? That she was killing unwanted female babies as is usual in China?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  113. @J.Ross

    A big pharma exec who aimed to lower drug prices found dead due to multiple blunt force injuries. His death was ruled a suicide and the medical examiner isn’t releasing any further information. How suspicious is this?

    Very.

    But J. Ross, you know damn well we live in a world of “covert actions”, at least when it comes to major policy-making decisions.

    The real question for social scientists is to determine just how much are our policies the result of the overt, public discussions and debates that dominate “the news”, and how much are our policies the result of unseen – but real, powerful and often very violent – forces, forces applied outside the view or consciousness of virtually all Americans?

    (Forces which most Americans could not even describe, let alone explain.)

  114. “With G.W.A.S., you look at the whole genome and let the data tell you where there’s variation,” Benjamin says.

    Isn’t this called “data mining”?

    But Dalton Conley, a professor of sociology at Princeton…

    I always confuse Dalton Conley with the very different Darby Conley, of the comic strip Get Fuzzy. But the latter is from Boston, and was a Zumbye at Amherst. My guess is that Dalton might say his name (when off-guard) Dorrl-ton, as it has a syllable that rhymes with Abbie Salny’s of Mensa. The latter would say Daaah-by Kawwwn-ley.

    For this morning’s cultural appropriation segment, enjoy the Zumbye apocalypse doing Michael Jackson, complete with an Asian kid dressed as a banana (a twofer macroagression!):

  115. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous

    “Corvy, you’re ignorant of who Bree Walker is and why her actions might present a moral decision needing to be made.”

    You are a fool. Despite her condition, she has led a productive life. There is no pity party. There is no guilt. Now, she has two children who also have that same affliction. In the end, it the decision made by her and her husband to have kids, knowing that there was the distinct possibility that they could be born with it. So do you believe that her and her husband ought not to have children simply because it was likely that they would have inherited it?

  116. Travis says:
    @gcochran

    Thanks for enlightening me.

    Does West Africa have much more genetic Diversity than the European continent ?

  117. uman says:
    @Travis

    I think almost 10% of the 42 african “american” population are immigrants, not sure the breakdown between carribean and african immigrants. In fact, going forward, most of the growth of the black population will be new african immigrants etc… look at US censue projections – I’m too lazy to link.

  118. @Corvinus

    wreaks of statism.

    We were getting tired of the same old “eggcorns”, eg, “reigned in, tow the line, wasn’t phased, fazed out. Thanks for the fresh one.

  119. “Geno-Economics”

    I’m disappointed. I was sure this was going to be about Sicily.

    It also reminds me of Jeno Paulucci, son of marchigiani, master of cultural appropriation. He started Chun King canned chow mein in, of all places, Bob Dylan’s Duluth.

    He sold Chun King to La Choy (of Archbold, Ohio), and started Jeno’s frozen pizza, which was his own territory, more or less. Jeno’s, after its own trip to Ohio, was unloaded to the Totino family, and carries their name now.

    But Jeno’s name and logo survives as a pizza chain in Colombia.

    http://www.jenospizza.com.co/

    • Replies: @anon
  120. BTW, Steve, African Americans by and large tend to have a deficiency of Vitamin D when compared to other races. The hypothesis to explain this is that their pigmentation was an adaptive response to overexposure to the sun and limits the beneficial production of vitamin D by the body when exposed to sunlight and UV. The flip side is that white folk in northern climes had pigmentation naturally selected out of them over time to enhance the natural Vitamin D production of their bodies in places on Earth that receive far less UV-B than Africa.

    The long-term genetic implication is that over time African Americans might evolve to lose their pigmentation. This is a problem that AA leadership might ponder, because staying in America means that they might eventually become white, and we know how undesirable that is.

    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/4/1126/4664238

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  121. @J.Ross

    The Lucky Charms mascot has already been done, with the “Leprechaun” horror movie series.

  122. @Big Bill

    “WHITE PEOPLE STOLE ALL THE GOOD GENES (AND ASIANS)!”

  123. bomag says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    mama told me when I was young
    We are all born superstars

    She rolled my hair and put my lipstick on
    In the glass of her boudoir

    “There’s nothing wrong with loving who you are”
    She said, “‘Cause he made you perfect, babe”
    “So hold your head up girl and you’ll go far,
    Listen to me when I say”

    I’m beautiful in my way
    ‘Cause God makes no mistakes
    I’m on the right track, baby I was born this way

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  124. anon[502] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hodag

    Wasn’t @unit472 joking?

  125. @megabar

    Simple solutions: all welfare recipients must be sterilized or implanted with Norplant to obtain benefits; convicted felons will be sterilized in order to obtain parole. Sperm banks will be regulated to ensure only sperm with a high polygenic score is disseminated to women.

  126. anon[502] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Gino’s burgers was resurrected.

  127. In response, you will be told the cliche that Africans have the most genetic diversity, but that’s primarily due to to genes that don’t affect much but are useful for tracking ancestry.

    What’s the evidence for this last assertion? Also, not sure exactly what you mean. Non-coding DNA? Accumulation of silent/neutral mutations? Is that from Reich’s team’s studies?

    I mean, sure, we have the non-African Andamanese and the Aboriginal Australians, but we also have the very Sub-Saharan Pygmies (Cochran apparently likes them Pygmies, in a good way, of course) and the San, who are visibly (phenotypically) different from most other Sub-Saharans, correct? As in, it’s not just some hidden genetic diversity; it shows. Was that what you meant?

  128. Redman says:
    @anon

    Totally agree. About five months ago several good friends and close family members who lean left, but fancy themselves independent, all started raving about “this guy Avenatti.”

    “He’s smart, he’s brash and he beats Trump at his own game,” they claimed. Also, he was on every non-Fox news channel almost simultaneously and all the time. Who but a genius could manage such a feat.

    It’s as if all the MSM decided at once that this guy was special. I immediately suspected that Avenatti was something the MSM was using together, and all were in on the talking points.

  129. notanon says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    iirc that’s already being done for couples at risk of genetic diseases (fertilise a bunch of eggs and test them before implantation) – that’s how people will get around any restrictions, make it about checks for genetic disease and secretly pick the highest IQ one at the same time.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  130. notanon says:
    @Big Bill

    yes – that should be step one

  131. Pat Boyle says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Apparently this can already be done. Read Hsu’s original blog. He appears to be the smartest human being on earth.

  132. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    At what point do potential parents start doing these types of tests on fertilized eggs.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if some parents who are doing IVF have already done this.  Soon, in any event.  Likely in China first.

    I mean, what’s to stop a couple from fertilizing 10 eggs and testing them to find out which one has the best odds of being smart.

    Nothing except lack of a lab offering the test.

    If we can use techniques like this to reduce the general genetic load, it would be accompanied by a general increase in health and welfare.  We should be pushing for this hard.

    • Replies: @ZeroDay
  133. Pat Boyle says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    You seem to be scared about the implications of this technology. That’s understandable. If you weren’t at least a little worried I wouldn’t think you had quite got it.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  134. @Big Bill

    It looks like the “implicit racism” forces can prevent that tempering by refusing to collect the samples required to make GWAS scoring accurate for Africans.  They insist that genes don’t matter anyway, so we can expect them to denounce such data collection as racist.

  135. @Anon

    You know what might be a future idear? Genetic locking.

    Already made it in SF, as part of an eternal-youth scheme.  The idea was to add error-checking and correction to DNA to prevent degradation by mutation, but one of the side effects was to prevent interbreeding with normies.  I could probably dig up the story if I had the time.

  136. @Buffalo Joe

    do we eliminate the children that would be a drain on society?

    Already happened.  Most parents with Down syndrome fetuses abort them.  I suspect that many with spina bifida and cleft palate/face do also.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  137. Pat Boyle says:
    @Peter Johnson

    I don’t doubt anything that you wrote. It’s like the cell phone. My illiterate maids all have them and use them with no trouble. But the complexity of the technology is so great that it is astonishing that they could ever have been invented at all.

    Just a few years ago such devices were features of Star Trek TV shows or James Bond movies. People complained that the future contained no domestic flying cars yet ignore the miracles that surround us all.

    So It is likely to be with embryo genome testing. People who can’t spell genome will still get their embryos scanned and choose the kind of baby they want. All they need to know is – smart or tall or strong etc.

  138. @MikeatMikedotMike

    I drink to make other people interesting, but no amount of alcohol has thus far been sufficient for me to find Corvinus worth reading.

    • Replies: @fish
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
  139. @notanon

    It appears Hispanic women are in fact mating with men of higher socio-economic status more frequently than Whites, Blacks or Asians.

    25% of Hispanic females have children with a white male in America. But what is eugenic for Hispanic females may be dysgenic for whites. Similar pattern with Black males who seek white women to have their children. Dysgenic for whites but eugenic for Blacks.

    • Replies: @notanon
  140. @Slugger O’Toole

    You’d make a heck of a different targeting welfare cases and felons, but given the very small number of babies made through sperm banks you’d probably be wasting your effort.  Also, high polygenic score for WHAT measurable trait(s)?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @megabar
  141. @Mr. Rational

    Heck of a DIFFERENCE.  Time for new glasses.

  142. ZeroDay says:
    @Mr. Rational

    If family planning and childhood nutrition are reasonable behavioral indicators, then the only parents who engage in genetic, pre-natal screening will be whites and asians. Suspect this will create an ethical dilemma of how does one nudge Hispanics and blacks into doing so, while the IQ gap is growing larger.

  143. @ben tillman

    The point-and-splutter looks like making a case to ban multigene testing because it is certain to prove that the Badwhites were right all along.

  144. @Pat Boyle

    Pat, Thank you and I guess I do get it.

  145. @bomag

    bomag, Source please. Very insightful lyrics or poetry.

  146. OP says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    DNA.land was inaccurate with my height, it stated that I was likely shorter than average. I’m taller than average by three inches. 23 and Me got that correct.

  147. @Mr. Rational

    Mr. R., I know a couple that recently had a Downs Syndrome baby. My heart hurts for them, but they are always joyfull, so maybe the problem is mine. Cleft palates are corrected daily by plastic surgeons.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Anonymous
  148. ZeroDay says:
    @Travis

    Boomers have raised the cost of child-rearing to where it is borderline prohibitive to have children, and where having an impaired child is financially ruinous. And this is before we have austerity from their $22 trillion spending spree, or we deal with the fiscal realities of immigration and medicare.

    Point being, the Boomers have created the ideal conditions for Sparta-like acceptance of embryonic eugenics. The cost of IVF will seem relatively inexpensive in a decade or so.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Lowe
    , @Anon
    , @Corvinus
  149. @Sean

    ‘…In conclusion, we developed a validated and accessible self-control scale, and show that genetic influences explain a majority of the individual differences in self-control across youth aged 7-16 years.’

    I stand corrected.

  150. @Buffalo Joe

    “Then do we eliminate the children that would be a drain on society?

    We eliminate the embryos that are likely to result in children that’d be a drain on society.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  151. @Corvinus

    ‘…”There is a difference and some people should be discouraged by incentive from breeding.”

    Tell you what. Quit your job and dedicate your time and energy on that endeavor. I will even buy you a bullhorn, so long as you record yourself once a week and give us a monthly report…’

    I prefer to act positively — and I’m already retired, so no problem there.

    However, a bullhorn doesn’t sound especially likely to work, and I am not about to give you a monthly report.

  152. Lowe says:
    @anon

    In a righteous society, criminals like this would be punished more harshly based on the person whom they attacked. This would probably rate the worst punishment on the scale.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  153. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  154. when they say “Celebrate Diversity” they deep down most intensely mean “Celebrate Sub-Saharans.”

    This line is dripping with white racial resentment. “Diversity” means all kinds of people; young people, old people, LGBT people, disabled people, east Asians, Latin Americans, etc…

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  155. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    NYT: ‘Race isn’t real, race isn’t real, race isn’t real’ followed up by periodic reports that ‘race may be real’ by a Libby scientist. I guess a Libby scientist has a degree of immunity. It’s like what Nixon said of going to China. He could do it because he had credentials as anti-communist.

    So, if race-ism is ever validated, it will be by Libby scientists.

    You have to be officially against something to make it come true. Bill Clinton could lock up tons of blacks because he said, “I luv the Negroes”.

    • Replies: @Travis
    , @anon
  156. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @ZeroDay

    Boomers have raised the cost of child-rearing to where it is borderline prohibitive to have children

    They should be like Mexicans. They still have kids even though they have less.

    White folks need to emphasize race, tribe, and culture more than individual achievement. White folks should prefer a working class white person who is faithful to the race/culture than a rich white person who is a cucky-wuck traitor. But most white parents prefer to have successful individuals than loyal patriots. Their main focus is ‘I hope my kid makes it to the top’.

    Covenant wins over Covetousness in the long run. White folks need a Covenant where every white person, even if modest in wealth, feels richness as part of the community. It’s like George Bailey is the ‘richest man in town’ because he’s part of the community. But all we have is individualism and globalism. Individuals have no sense beyond ‘me, me, me’, and globalist identification with the entire world makes for dilution of identity and meaning.

  157. Travis says:

    impaired children are mostly aborted today. The main reason some are not aborted is due to the parents religious beliefs. We already abort babies with any genetic abnormalities or those with observed physical problems in the womb. A healthy child with an IQ of 100 would not be considered impaired and is not likely to rue a family financially.

    The question iS, will parents use IVF to select embryos based on their polygenic scores. Will parents spend the $50,000 per child to increase the odds their child graduates from college ? Even selecting an embryo with a high polygenic barley nudges the IQ and only 57% of those with a top 20% score actually graduate from college. So parents are not likely to waste thousands of dollars and additional invasive treatments resulting in 43% of their offspring not graduating college. (if you have some embryos with a high polygenic score) what will the parents do after spending $25,00 to create 9 embryos and none of them have a polygenic score among the top quintile ? Keep spending more money to create more embryos ?

    Currently the predictive power of ones polygenic score is no better than looking at the Educational attainment of the parents. A high polygenic score embryo is as likely to graduate college as a random embryo from 2 college educated parents…..thus the benefits for embryo selection are quite small for highly educated parents. Those who dropped out of High School would benefit more but are less likely to bother using IVF and costly genetic screening.

    • Replies: @res
  158. Travis says:
    @Anon

    True and it will take a Democratic administration to build a wall and reduce immigration…Under the Obama administration the united States actually build hundreds of miles of border barriers , including steel fencing and walls. Obama was also able to stop accepting Cuban refugees with the stroke of a pen without any negative feedback from the press.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  159. @Buffalo Joe

    I know a couple that recently had a Downs Syndrome baby. My heart hurts for them, but they are always joyfull

    Give them a few decades.  I know someone who is around 60 and STILL caring for what’s euphemistically known as a “special-needs child”.  He says there is no such thing as a vacation and no end this side of death.

    In the case of Down syndrome, the extra chromosome 21 often leads to Alzheimer’s onset in the 40′s.  If people could see what their lives would be like with such offspring, there would be a lot more late-term abortions.  (Practically speaking, this is what the now-ended convention of placement in institutions where such babies died of neglect amounted to:  post-natal abortion.)

    The point of toddlers is that they grow up.  Having a permanent toddler with adult strength, when you’re old and losing your own… that’s one of my visions of hell.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    , @3g4me
  160. Corvinus says:

    “Give them a few decades.”

    And chances are that couple remains joyous.

    “If people could see what their lives would be like with such offspring, there would be a lot more late-term abortions.”

    In this day of information, we are aware of what it all entails. The question is whether or not the couple have the inner strength to raise that child knowing full well there will be pitfalls. It’s really up to them, not you or me.

    “Having a permanent toddler with adult strength, when you’re old and losing your own… that’s one of my visions of hell.”

    Exactly, YOUR vision.

    You know, haven’t you NOTICED that Mr. Sailer does not reflect upon such matters from a religious or Christian perspective. Why?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Dtbb
  161. @anon

    Because the democrat NY-LA-DC media hates Donald Trump and his voters with a passion. They have promoted guys like Michael Avenatti in response because those guys will attack Trump on their behalf; instead of CNN and NBC directly attacking president Trump with their supposed news outfits – sullying them – they’ll sometimes use a photogenic guy like Avenatti to do it, instead. They do this so they can both keep their hands clean while maintaining the illusion of impartiality while also enticing his demographic to their side. They think that because he’s white, Avenatti’s attacks will have extra influence, especially among white middle-class voters who might otherwise support the president.

    They’re badly mistaken about that. The general complaint about Trump for swing voters is his vulgar and licentious personal behavior. Avenatti’s worse in that regard.

  162. Corvinus says:
    @ZeroDay

    “Boomers have raised the cost of child-rearing to where it is borderline prohibitive to have children, and where having an impaired child is financially ruinous.”

    No. Here is what actually part led to skyrocketing costs to raise a family.

    https://www.fatherly.com/love-money/why-cost-raising-kids-skyrocketed-since-1960/

    “the Boomers have created the ideal conditions for Sparta-like acceptance of embryonic eugenics.”

    Who accepts this “embryonic eugenics”?

    “Suspect this will create an ethical dilemma of how does one nudge Hispanics and blacks into doing so, while the IQ gap is growing larger.”

    Why don’t you draft a proposal and submit it to the government?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  163. J.Ross says: • Website
    @BB753

    Everybody who studies China knows about this, this is like their equivalent of mass shootings or going postal. The individual is worthless but everybody cares about babies. I wouldn’t say it’s common but this is hardly the first time, and there’s a well-established pattern.
    Before the Revolution it was not common but not unheard of to commit suicide as an act of outraged divorce, because then the husband is on the hook to buy funeral arrangements and accommodate hostile in-laws.

  164. @The Alarmist

    David Weber has a character from a planet settled by black nationalists. The planet is on the cold side of the habitable zone, so over the centuries, the population’s skin turned pale white.

  165. Corvinus says:
    @Lucas McCrudy

    “We eliminate the embryos that are likely to result in children that’d be a drain on society.”

    Who is this WE, Kemosabe?

    Besides, how do you propose to make this happen? Is there some sort of community board? A government agency? What is the criteria involved? That is, what exactly constitutes “children who most likely will be a drain on society”? Must all parents be subject to what amounts to be an “inspection”? What happens if parents refuse? Are their consequences for that refusal? And, of course, how do you justify this approach in light of religious beliefs which value the sanctity of life?

    Psalm 139:13-17–For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!

    You, Mr. Rational, Slugger O’Toole, and ZeroDay have more than a few screws loose on this issue.

    • Replies: @Lucas McCrudy
  166. @Mr. Rational

    Give them a few decades. I know someone who is around 60 and STILL caring for what’s euphemistically known as a “special-needs child”. He says there is no such thing as a vacation and no end this side of death.

    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2016/04/photo-of-the-day-744/

    This photo of John McClamrock was taken in the tenth grade. John was paralyzed while playing football for Hillcrest High School. His mother Ann has spent almost every waking moment caring for him since.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @J.Ross
  167. megabar says:
    @Mr. Rational

    > Also, high polygenic score for WHAT measurable trait(s)?

    Yes, this is what makes me nervous. Identifying the relevant genes is hard enough, but how can we hope to predict what a good mix of genes is to make a strong society? Can we be sure that we don’t accidentally select against genes that have actually contributed meaningfully to the West?

    That is, a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous, especially if it’s applied on a wide scale.

    As an example, let’s say that we strongly select against people with criminally violent tendencies. What if we go to far and end up creating a nation of pathologically altruistic natures, who then get steamrolled by foreign powers.

    I mean, even more than what’s already going on.

    I’m not saying it shouldn’t be done, when we’re ready. I’m just saying it makes me nervous.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  168. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Knowingly making babies that are doomed to terrible lives and burdens to society is the most egregious violation of the Golden Rule imaginable.”

    That happens every time a French bulldog is born. If you think that is only because they are dogs, and that humans (with their history of Chinese foot binding and Mayan head-plating) will be exempt from such a fate under your Rule of the Golden, you are being naive.

    But yeah, sure, when we, uh, release these babies from the imposition of being allowed to live (or whatever clinical euphemism we go with), we’ll be doing it for THEIR benefit. Let’s just agree to keep telling ourselves that.

    • Disagree: Mr. Rational
  169. @Corvinus

    “How do you propose to make this happen? Is there some sort of community board? A government agency? What is the criteria involved? That is, what exactly constitutes “children who most likely will be a drain on society””

    Uhhhh, ever heard of embryo screening/selection? You should read up on it some time. You see, people in a lab fertilize eggs with sperm creating embyos, then they screen the embyos to determine its genetic makeup or sex (it’s being done right as we speak!) There’s no “community board” or “government agenct” involved at all. Just people wishing to having children free of deleterious genes causing things like cancer and cystic fibrosis. (again, this is happening right as we speak!)
    As to who determines “children most likely to be a drain on society,” ever heard of a book called The Bell Curve? Dumb people are more likely to be unemployed, commit crimes and be on welfare (i.e. be drains on society) than smart people and IQ is about 50-80% heritable. So obviously if we know many of the genes that influence IQ, wouldn’t it make sence to encourage or coerce people to use embyo screening to prevent the birth of babies that would likely grow up to be dullards?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Corvinus
  170. @anon

    A friend has two kids through IVF. So far they are largely a source of struggle and heartbreak for her and her husband. Of course, they may get it together and become wonderful and productive, but I doubt it.

    • Replies: @anon
  171. 3g4me says:
    @Anon

    @157 Anon[425]: “Covenant wins over Covetousness in the long run. White folks need a Covenant where every white person, even if modest in wealth, feels richness as part of the community. It’s like George Bailey is the ‘richest man in town’ because he’s part of the community. But all we have is individualism and globalism. Individuals have no sense beyond ‘me, me, me’, and globalist identification with the entire world makes for dilution of identity and meaning.”

    Brilliantly stated.

  172. 3g4me says:
    @Mr. Rational

    @162 Mr. Rational: “Give them a few decades. I know someone who is around 60 and STILL caring for what’s euphemistically known as a “special-needs child”. He says there is no such thing as a vacation and no end this side of death . . . The point of toddlers is that they grow up. Having a permanent toddler with adult strength, when you’re old and losing your own… that’s one of my visions of hell.”

    This. Before we left our church, we used to regularly see an elderly, gray-haired couple with their middle-aged Downs Syndrome daughter. My heart almost broke with pity and dread – in their waning years, all their time and energy and finances were devoted to what essentially amounted to a genetic and cultural dead-end. I am no fan of abortion, and truly do not know what I would have done if I’d discovered I was pregnant with such a child. I thank God I never had to face that choice.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Corvinus
  173. fish says:
    @Mr. Rational

    I drink to make other people interesting, but no amount of alcohol has thus far been sufficient for me to find Corvinus worth reading.

    Perhaps some of that Pruno mentioned up thread!

  174. ZeroDay says:
    @Anon

    This may work in Canada or Australia. But in the US, the boat sailed with the Bush presidencies.

    The Silent Generation and Boomers have doubled down on naive post-WW2 policies that have a python’s choke on young upwardly mobile family formation, the vast majority of which is white. Asking young people to “be like Mexicans” is yet another attempt to avoid a realistic conversation and will further suppress family formation. Add this to the list of failed GloboBoomer policies: two parent households as a prereq for middle class lifestyle, skyrocketing housing prices, wrecked K to undergrad educational system, etc.

    Most millennials display a greater since of community and solidarity than their predecessors. The only people who preach radical individualism are the spergy Reason.com GenXer’s and your typical Boomer.

  175. notanon says:
    @Slugger O’Toole

    yes, a shrinking middle class creates a situation where a majority of white women are competing for a minority of white men leaving a lot of bare branches among the remaining men.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  176. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    I think in the future we may see less hostage-taking. Dog Day Afternoon is really only possible in a sleepy, pre-Columbine, pre-IX/XI society where the cops are being commanded to coddle the bad guys (before Columbine, cops stayed out as policy to accommodate the bad guy). The Russian use of gas was only marred by EMTs who had not been told about the gas and treated the sleepers like ordinary patients. Even with that tragedy, nobody has the same patience for terrorism that they had before, and we know that we have the technology to rescue hundreds of people without firing a shot. And in front of all that is tightened general security and smartphone era surveillance. I expect less hostages and more thefts and hits.

  177. @ben tillman

    You will please notice that John McClamrock was not BORN paralyzed from a condition that was diagnosed well before birth.

  178. J.Ross says: • Website
    @ben tillman

    From link:

    Then, in November, a letter arrived at the hospital from the most unlikely place of all: the White House. President Richard Nixon, who was in the midst of his spectacular downfall from the Watergate scandal—he was only ten days away from delivering his “I am not a crook” speech—had read about John and stopped what he was doing to write him a sympathetic note.

    “Mrs. Nixon and I were deeply saddened to learn of the tragic accident which you suffered,” he began, “but we understand that you are a very brave young man and that your courage at this difficult time inspires all who know you. You have a devoted family and many friends cheering for you, and we are proud to join them in sending warm wishes to you always.”

    If I didn’t know better I’d admit to a funny feeling that the major news media and entertainment culture want to teach the hatred of decency itself.

    • Replies: @notanon
  179. @megabar

    let’s say that we strongly select against people with criminally violent tendencies. What if we go to far and end up creating a nation of pathologically altruistic natures, who then get steamrolled by foreign powers.

    Ummm…. Sweden?  The UK?

    The UK at least was “pacified” by removing the criminally inclined through capital punishment over centuries, but it appears that the tipping point into cuckery was the two wars in 1914-18 and 1939-45.

    I mean, even more than what’s already going on.

    Perhaps the solution is to save sperm from those who go to fight, and make certain that their legacy is preferred over those who would not or could not.  Extra points for heroism in action.

    • Replies: @megabar
    , @notanon
  180. @Lucas McCrudy

    obviously if we know many of the genes that influence IQ, wouldn’t it make sence to encourage or coerce people to use embyo screening to prevent the birth of babies that would likely grow up to be dullards?

    We can do this without genetic screening.  “Three generations of imbeciles is enough.”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  181. @Mr. Rational

    I expect Corvie drinks to make himself more interesting as well!

  182. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @3g4me

    @162 Mr. Rational: “Give them a few decades. I know someone who is around 60 and STILL caring for what’s euphemistically known as a “special-needs child”. He says there is no such thing as a vacation and no end this side of death . . . The point of toddlers is that they grow up. Having a permanent toddler with adult strength, when you’re old and losing your own… that’s one of my visions of hell.”

    This. Before we left our church, we used to regularly see an elderly, gray-haired couple with their middle-aged Downs Syndrome daughter. My heart almost broke with pity and dread – in their waning years, all their time and energy and finances were devoted to what essentially amounted to a genetic and cultural dead-end. I am no fan of abortion, and truly do not know what I would have done if I’d discovered I was pregnant with such a child. I thank God I never had to face that choice.

    I have known two such families. If one has the money, like Arthur Miller, it’s one thing but for normal people it is absolutely devastating. I don’t judge people for whatever action they take in those situations: I haven’t been in that situation and do not know what I’d do.

  183. megabar says:
    @Mr. Rational

    > the tipping point into cuckery was the two wars in 1914-18 and 1939-45.

    At one point I did some napkin math that seemed to indicate that, for the US at least, wartime casualties wouldn’t have had a very large genetic effect, but then I’m not a geneticist. I think the larger issue is simply that the West is spoiled and aimless, and doesn’t understand that the world is ruthless and competitive.

    Perhaps Western governing systems never had a realistic chance to survive prosperity. After all, all of the prosperous ones are failing at the same time. If so, then a new form of society needs to be designed and implemented. Or maybe the progressives are right and in 20 years we’ll be laughing about this.

    > Perhaps the solution is to save sperm from those who go to fight

    Yeah, I’m sure we could come up with reasonable-sounding solutions to specific concerns, and that’s fine fodder for discussion. But the real problem are the unknown unknowns — for every scenario like this one, there are no doubt many we won’t think of. Uncertainty combined with great impact is always scary.

    • Replies: @jim jones
  184. Dtbb says:
    @J.Ross

    Could he have been a jumper?

  185. @anon

    Yeah, slagging on Elvis and Babe Ruth. That’s a real winner.

    Could the elite (sic) media have their collective heads any further up their asses?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Forbes
  186. Dtbb says:
    @Corvinus

    I was walking down a beach and noticed a bottle sitting in the sand. I picked it up and rubbed some sand off to behold it. A Genie emerged and said”I am the Genie of the bottle and will grant you three wishes; the only catch is iSteve commenter Corvinus gets twice what you wish for. What are your wishes”? I answered”Give me a billion dollars.” Whiz bang, a billion dollars magically appears and Corvinus gets two billion. “Next” says the Genie. “Give me a huge mansion”, whiz bang I get a mansion and Corvinus gets two mansions. “Next” says the Genie. I think and think but cannot make up my mind. “Hurry up I am a busy Genie and don’t have time to waste” he says. I look the Genie in the eye and say “BEAT ME HALF TO DEATH!”

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  187. conley will change his mind again with the current pathetic results or he’s a criminal.

  188. Anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    We give them to Mr. Bezos and he uses them to colonize Mars, where most of them die but the tough survive, and raise his proprietary clone army.

  189. the results of the above study are definitive. the missing heritability will never be found, because it was never there in the first place. the twin studies were always garbage.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  190. A joint (multi-phenotype) analysis of educational attainment and three related cognitive phenotypes generates polygenic scores that explain 11–13% of the variance in educational attainment and 7–10% of the variance in cognitive performance.

    lee has said this is as good as it’s ever going to get, and even this isn’t as good as it appears. when lee corrected for stratification the effect was cut in half. and the effect was only for the population studied. applied to other populations it didn’t work.

    hereditism was always something only dumb people beleived, and yes all soc sci profs are dumb, especially the psych profs. congratulations steve.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @notanon
  191. Quora seems to be a little more, well, frank in French than in English:

    Pourquoi Haïti est-il pauvre alors que la République dominicaine est riche?

    C’est un mixte de Démographie,d’ Intelligence et de Gouvernance qui démarque ces deux pays.

    Jordan Peterson , a dit de façon blessante mais lucide, que le progrès d’un pays est proportionnelle a son intelligence moyenne et a la capacité intellectuelle de sa population.

    It is a combination of Demography, Intelligence and Governance that sets these two countries apart.

    Jordan Peterson said, in a hurtful but lucid way, that the progress of a country is proportional to its average intelligence and the intellectual capacity of its population.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  192. Corvinus says:
    @Lucas McCrudy

    “Uhhhh, ever heard of embryo screening/selection? You should read up on it some time.”

    I am familiar with it, as it allows couples at risk of transmitting a genetic disease to ensure their future children are unaffected by the disease without going through the process of prenatal diagnosis (i.e., testing of fetal tissue for the presence of disease genes) and being forced to make the difficult decision regarding pregnancy termination.

    But that is how far it ought to go. Dartmouth College ethics professor Ronald M. Green (April 2008) –> “If misapplied, [these technologies] would exacerbate existing inequalities and reinforce existing modes of discrimination. . .the development and commercial marketing of human genetic modification would likely spark a techno-eugenic rat-race. Even parents opposed to manipulating their children’s genes would feel compelled to participate in this race, lest their offspring be left behind.” Among his brethren, there has been talk that congressional action may be needed to regulate this medical process.

    “As to who determines “children most likely to be a drain on society,” ever heard of a book called The Bell Curve?”

    Which is controversial in and of itself. Murray himself has stated, “We are silent partly because we are as apprehensive as most other people about what might happen when a government decides to social-engineer who has babies and who doesn’t. We can imagine no recommendation for using the government to manipulate fertility that does not have dangers. But this highlights the problem: The United States already has policies that inadvertently social-engineer who has babies, and it is encouraging the wrong women. If the United States did as much to encourage high-IQ women to have babies as it now does to encourage low-IQ women, it would rightly be described as engaging in aggressive manipulation of fertility. The technically precise description of America’s fertility policy is that it subsidizes births among poor women, who are also disproportionately at the low end of the intelligence distribution. We urge generally that these policies, represented by the extensive network of cash and services for low-income women who have babies, be ended.”

    Murray’s tract proposing the comprehensive revision of the American welfare state along eugenicist lines leads to that slippery slope from soft core to hard core eugenics.

    “So obviously if we know many of the genes that influence IQ, wouldn’t it make sence to encourage or coerce people to use embyo screening to prevent the birth of babies that would likely grow up to be dullards?

    “Likely”, NOT “certainly”. Exactly why bio-ethicists issue the cautionary tales about the direction of human genetic engineering. Besides, it is NOT your decision to make as to who has children.

    Again, how do you justify this approach in light of religious beliefs which value the sanctity of life?

  193. res says:
    @Travis

    Currently the predictive power of ones polygenic score is no better than looking at the Educational attainment of the parents. A high polygenic score embryo is as likely to graduate college as a random embryo from 2 college educated parents…..thus the benefits for embryo selection are quite small for highly educated parents.

    That does not necessarily follow. The important question for embryo selection is how much predictive power the polygenic score gives for children of the same parents. I have yet to see a truly convincing analysis of this.

    Gwern takes a comprehensive look at embryo selection in https://www.gwern.net/Embryo-selection

  194. @Desiderius

    Yeah, slagging on Elvis and Babe Ruth.

    Because both were German gluttons like Trump? (“Presley” came from Pressler, not the Scottish Presley.)

    But dead Presleys who need more recognition than Elvis might include Reg:

    Presley wrote the hits “With a Girl Like You”, “I Can’t Control Myself” and “Love Is All Around”. Wet Wet Wet’s 1994 cover of the latter song stayed at No. 1 in the UK Singles Chart for fifteen weeks. Presley used his royalties from that cover to fund research subjects such as alien spacecraft, lost civilisations, alchemy, and crop circles, and outlined his findings in the book Wild Things They Don’t Tell Us, published in October 2002.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Presley

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Desiderius
  195. Corvinus says:
    @3g4me

    “My heart almost broke with pity and dread – in their waning years, all their time and energy and finances were devoted to what essentially amounted to a genetic and cultural dead-end.”

    According to YOU she was this “genetic and cultural dead-end”. So, you attend church. What would your priest or minister say about your thought process? More importantly, what would God say?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  196. Corvinus says:
    @Mr. Rational

    “Three generations of imbeciles is enough.”

    Are you even familiar with the case Bell vs. Buck? No, that would require insight on your part.

    Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., himself a student of eugenics, wrote the formal opinion for the Court. His opinion repeated the “facts” in Carrie’s case, concluding that a “deficient” mother, daughter, and granddaughter justified the need for sterilization. The decision includes the now infamous words: “It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”

    Recent scholarship has shown that Carrie Buck’s sterilization was based on a false “diagnosis” and her defense lawyer conspired with the lawyer for the Virginia Colony to guarantee that the sterilization law would be upheld in court. Carrie’s illegitimate child was not the result of promiscuity; she had been raped by a relative of her foster parents. School records also prove that Vivian was not “feebleminded.” Her 1st grade report card showed that Vivian was a solid “B” student and had been on the honor roll.

    Buck v. Bell supplied a precedent for the eventual sterilization of approximately 8,300 Virginians. Borrowing from Laughlin’s Model Law**, the German Nazi government adopted a law in 1933 that provided the legal basis for sterilizing more than 350,000 people. Harry Laughlin proudly published a translation of the German Law for the Prevention of Defective Progeny in The Eugenical News . In 1936, he was awarded an honorary degree from the University of Heidelberg as a tribute for his work in “the science of racial cleansing.”

    **In 1914, Harry Laughlin, head of the Eugenics Record Office, published a Model Eugenical Sterilization Law that proposed to authorize sterilization of the “socially inadequate”–people supported in institutions or maintained wholly or in part by public expense. The law encompassed the “feebleminded, insane, criminalistic, epileptic, inebriate, diseased, blind, deaf, deformed, and dependent” including “orphans, ne’er-do-wells, tramps, the homeless and paupers.”

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  197. Corvinus says:
    @notanon

    “yes, a shrinking middle class creates a situation where a majority of white women are competing for a minority of white men leaving a lot of bare branches among the remaining men.”

    Well, based on the “logic” by a number of posters here, it stands to reason that it sucks to be those “remaining men”. Best to cull the herd, right? See, that “minority of white men” are genetically superior, so they have more access to the females. Serves them right.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @notanon
  198. @Corvinus

    Are you even familiar with the case Bell vs. Buck? No, that would require insight on your part.

    Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., himself a student of eugenics, wrote the formal opinion for the Court.

    The only dissent was made by a St Paul man, Justice Pierce Butler. An Irish Catholic. Holmes: “Butler knows this is good law, I wonder whether he will have the courage to vote with us in spite of his religion.”

    St Paul’s other two Justices were also involved in one of the worst decisions ever made by the court. Harry Blackmun wrote Roe v Wade, and Chief Justice Warren Burger concurred.

    Appropriately, Butler is the only one honored by a road in the city– and it’s a long one.

    http://saintpaulhistorical.com/items/show/183

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  199. jim jones says:
    @megabar

    The US was hardly affected by WW1:

  200. gcochran says:
    @Glaivester

    Genetic variation in black Americans ( who average 77% sub-Saharan African) is like that of sub-Saharan Africans, about 20% greater than in Europeans. Most of this is neutral, tells you something about history maybe, nothing about phenotype,

    In order to significantly reduce genetic variation, you need either a very tight bottleneck ( one or a few generations) or a moderately larger population that is isolated for a long time, tens of thousands of years.

    Although you can also generate extra genetic variation by mixing long-separated groups, and this must have happened to some extent in Africa.

    Order-of-magnitude estimate for the size of the group that settled eurasia: a few hundred. Reduced genetic variation.

    Ordser of magnoitude estimate for main founding population of Amerindians, coming down from Beringia: also a few hundred. Amerindians have even lower genetic variation that Eurasians generally.

    ~300-400,000, rough size of African-American founding population, is huge as these things go: no chance of significant reduction in genetic Bantu have plenty of variation, very little of that variation was lost in transit, makes transplant matches harder.-

  201. gcochran says:
    @EdwardM

    No. Bonferroni correction. You could look it up.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
  202. anon[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Yeah, ole Bubba may not have read Carleton S. Coon, but he locked plenty up.

  203. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Presley was in the Troggs, famous today largely for “The Troggs Tapes”, of an altercation in the studio. They were also endorsers of Burns guitars. Their only hit over here was “Wild Thing”, better known for being covered by Jimi Hendrix.

  204. anon[242] • Disclaimer says:
    @stillCARealist

    I read that thoroughbred racehorses are only bred through live mating, though AI would be more convenient.
    Whether the reason for this is to prevent a crash in the price, or that live mating produces better results in offspring, or something else, I don’t know.
    I’m also told that thoroughbreds aren’t vaccinated or inoculated under any circumstances.

  205. @Reg Cæsar

    Both were also more than 1/1024th black. If race is a social construct, they were blacker than BHO.

  206. Corvinus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “The only dissent was made by a St Paul man, Justice Pierce Butler. An Irish Catholic. Holmes: “Butler knows this is good law, I wonder whether he will have the courage to vote with us in spite of his religion.”

    Thankfully, for Butler, God’s law trumped man-made laws. So, do you support or oppose that ruling? Try not to be vague.

    “St Paul’s other two Justices were also involved in one of the worst decisions ever made by the court.”

    So abortion, to you, ought to be illegal? Try not to be vague.

    What about the “encouragement or coercion of people to use embryo screening to prevent babies that likely are to grow up to be dullards?” Try not to be vague.

    Interesting how some fine posters here are of the apparent mindset that white couple have the right to kill off their future offspring should they have a “defect”, despite abortion being illegal in our nation.

    Interesting how some fine posters here are of the apparent mindset that white people should be convinced to use science to enable them to ensure a “better” or “superior” baby is born–because family formation–but non-white people should be dissuaded from taking the same action–because drain on society.

    I wonder if Mr. Sailer would care to weigh in here, taking into account the religious implications.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  207. EdwardM says:
    @gcochran

    Good, thanks for pointing that out. I am a bit familiar with the concept, as I did my (public policy) master’s thesis on multiple comparison problems in disparate impact employment discrimination litigation, back before “p-hacking” was a term.

    The article, or at least Steve’s lengthy excerpt, didn’t mention that the researchers applied Bonferroni. I hope it’s the norm when dealing with the threat of false positives due to multiple comparisons.

  208. @EdwardM

    The candidate gene approach, i.e., “essentially guessing which genes might be involved”, does not usually work well empirically, due to the very large number of genes associated with observable traits. GWAS researchers are constantly on the lookout for p-hacking and have stringent test criteria to prevent it. GWAS massively outperforms the candidate gene approach for predicting complex human traits like educational attainment.

  209. notanon says:
    @J.Ross

    it’s almost like it’s an allergic reaction to the ideals of Christianity

    (ideals – not saying reality matches them)

  210. notanon says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Perhaps the solution is to save sperm from those who go to fight, and make certain that their legacy is preferred over those who would not or could not. Extra points for heroism in action.

    if it was up to me i’d use sperm from special forces in infertility clinics instead of medical students: similar IQ (imo), ultra healthy, aggressive but also very self-controlled – this might partially counteract the possibly excessive taming of the population.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  211. notanon says:
    @black lesbian privilege

    this is as good as it’s ever going to get

    and the effect was only for the population studied. applied to other populations it didn’t work.

    alternatively…

    population A develops set of IQ genes A in region A

    some of population A moves to region B and develops some different genes for IQ

    some of population B move to region C and develop some additional genes for IQ

    so you end up with
    - population A has set of IQ genes A
    - population B has set of IQ genes AB
    - population C has set of IQ genes ABC

    so when you do a GWAS including all three populations the only common ones are set A – say 15% correlation

    then maybe you redo the GWAS but separating out the three populations and you get three separate correlations each of 80%+

    and then everyone involved freaks out cos if they say this in public the media will burn them as heretics so instead they decide to slip it out piece by piece.

    (i have no idea if that is what happened but logically speaking it seems the most likely)

  212. notanon says:
    @Corvinus

    But that is how far it ought to go

    i’d agree with that.

    personally i’d never want to stop people having *a* child of their own but i could live with a 1/2/3 child policy (one for dummies, two for average, three for smart) or alternatively if two dummies want to have a kid (assuming polygenic IQ means the couple are unlikely to have the exact same set of IQ genes) then genetic screening where they fertilize a bunch of eggs and pick the one which would produce the smartest version of their kid doesn’t seem like a bad idea.

    Again, how do you justify this approach in light of religious beliefs which value the sanctity of life?

    the thing is rich people are certainly going to do this so the two options are
    1) only the rich do it creating rigid genetic castes
    2) the left-side gets lifted up too

    so if you don’t like the idea of (1) then the only option is figuring out the best way to lift up the left-side as well.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  213. notanon says:
    @Corvinus

    there’s more than one way to organise society around the reality of genetics – once it’s publicly accepted there will be “left/liberal” and “right” perspectives on how to go forward for people to argue over.

    (as to the specific case no – if a shrinking middle class leads to 80% of women competing for 20% of men and only 20% succeed leaving 60% of women as bitter childless roasties and 60% of men as incels that is highly sub-optimal from a healthy tribe/herd point of view)

    Best to cull the herd, right?

    culling the herd is faster but personally i’m fine with slowly improving it with artificial selection.

  214. Forbes says:
    @Desiderius

    Could the elite (sic) media have their collective heads any further up their asses?

    Give ‘em a minute, they’re working on it…

  215. Forbes says:
    @Steve Sailer

    After Trump and Occasionally-Crazy…

  216. Corvinus says:
    @notanon

    “there’s more than one way to organise society around the reality of genetics…”

    Reality of genetics AND environment. Fortunately, it is up to the people collectively to decide whether or not they will organize it around this “reality”.

    “(as to the specific case no – if a shrinking middle class leads to 80% of women competing for 20% of men and only 20% succeed leaving 60% of women as bitter childless roasties and 60% of men as incels that is highly sub-optimal from a healthy tribe/herd point of view)”

    Assuming that these percentages are accurate and that these results (women = bitter childless roasties, men = incels) will actually occur.

    “personally i’d never want to stop people having *a* child of their own but i could live with a 1/2/3 child policy (one for dummies, two for average, three for smart)”

    Except this policy directly interferes with one’s liberty, especially if imposed in the United States. Thankfully, it’s not going to happen. So, how do you justify this approach in light of religious beliefs which value the sanctity of life?

    “or alternatively if two dummies want to have a kid (assuming polygenic IQ means the couple are unlikely to have the exact same set of IQ genes) then genetic screening where they fertilize a bunch of eggs and pick the one which would produce the smartest version of their kid doesn’t seem like a bad idea.”

    So what is the actual criteria you would employ for labeling people “dummies, average, and smart”?

    “the thing is rich people are certainly going to do this so the two options are
    1) only the rich do it creating rigid genetic castes
    2) the left-side gets lifted up too”

    Rigid genetic castes? That sounds like a form of aristocracy. Thanks, but no thanks. We as human beings have been there and done that. Feel free to create your own world based on this phenomenon.

    Just leave white normies out of it.

    “culling the herd is faster but personally i’m fine with slowly improving it with artificial selection.”

    Are you positive that you would have been born based on this system? How so?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @notanon
  217. @Corvinus

    Dartmouth College ethics professor Ronald M. Green (April 2008) –> “If misapplied, [these technologies] would exacerbate existing inequalities and reinforce existing modes of discrimination. . .the development and commercial marketing of human genetic modification would likely spark a techno-eugenic rat-race. Even parents opposed to manipulating their children’s genes would feel compelled to participate in this race, lest their offspring be left behind.” Among his brethren, there has been talk that congressional action may be needed to regulate this medical process.

    No formed opinion on the matter here, but it’s possibly worth noting that congressional action in the United States will not prevent China from pursuing human genetic modification, possibly (some say certainly) leaving the rest of the world — or at least the United States — behind. (There are a couple posts at West Hunter about this)

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  218. @notanon

    how much has been written? too much. none of the writers have gotten meta. they’ve never asked themselves what the test is for their ideology.

    there is ONE definitive test/experiment which would prove or disprove hereditism.

    lots of people are selected at random from around the world and the best PGS is constructed where the phenotype is local rank not global rank…

    then the PGS is tested on another random sample of the whole world.

    what will be found is hereditism was always for low IQ people like art jensen.

    sad!

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @notanon
  219. notanon says:
    @Corvinus

    Are you positive that you would have been born based on this system?

    yes

    How so?

    i would have killed all the other embryos.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  220. notanon says:
    @black lesbian privilege

    there is ONE definitive test/experiment which would prove or disprove hereditism.

    sheep dogs

  221. @Corvinus

    “it is NOT your decision to make as to who has children. Again, how do you justify this approach in light of religious beliefs which value the sanctity of life?”

    Correction: It’s Your religious beliefs which value the so-called “sanctity of life.” I’m agnostic so I don’t find it morally objectionable to discard a microscopic embryo, completely inanimate and incapable of feeling any pain, if that’s what the donors responsible for it decide to do. Obviously aborting a fetus over its genome is more controversial but that’s not what I’m talking about in my post. Capisce?

    “”likely”, NOT “certainly”. Exactly why bio-ethicists issue the cautionary tales about the direction of human genetic engineering. ”

    I’m not talking about “genetic engineering.” Piking and choosing which embryos to initiate pregnancies with based on their genes with is already being done, actual genetic engineering is a completely hypothetical and quite frankly won’t even be do-able for a very long time, maybe our grandkids might have to worry about it, certainly not anyone planning on procreating any time soon.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  222. @Anon

    They should be like Mexicans. They still have kids even though they have less.

    Mexico’s fertility rate has fallen pretty significantly over the past several decades. Currently, TFR in Mexico is 2.2 children per woman.

    White folks need to emphasize race, tribe, and culture more than individual achievement. White folks should prefer a working class white person who is faithful to the race/culture than a rich white person who is a cucky-wuck traitor. But most white parents prefer to have successful individuals than loyal patriots. Their main focus is ‘I hope my kid makes it to the top’.

    Covenant wins over Covetousness in the long run. White folks need a Covenant where every white person, even if modest in wealth, feels richness as part of the community. It’s like George Bailey is the ‘richest man in town’ because he’s part of the community. But all we have is individualism and globalism. Individuals have no sense beyond ‘me, me, me’, and globalist identification with the entire world makes for dilution of identity and meaning.

    From the 30s up through the 70s, there was a social contract in place in America and other Western nations. Under the contract, if you worked hard, you’d be rewarded with a decent income, job stability, and union rights. Sometimes you’d even get a pension. During this era, corporate paternalism, leftist political populism, Keynesian economic policy, and unions kept wages high. There was an emphasis on being hardworking, simple, and cooperative. The sense was that if we all worked together and fulfilled our individual social&economic roles, we could build a more prosperous society together.

    So if someone was especially greedy or ostentation with their wealth, they were shamed. If a corporate CEO took too much pay or was hostile to unions, they were shamed. The business elite were expected to share the largesse with the working masses, while toning down their individual consumption and displays of wealth.

    Then in the 80s, White-Americans (and to a lesser extent other White Anglos and Euros) decided to shred the social contract. They decided that it’d be in their interest to embrace free-market “Reaganomics.” Tax cuts, deregulation, financialization, union busting. Whites embraced this because they thought “pro-growth” capitalism offered them opportunities to finally get rich and attain “the American dream.” Whites understood that in the new system, there’d be winners and losers. However, most Whites thought they’d be among the winners.

    So when unions started to get decimated by management, management told the employees that “high-performers” would benefit under the new regime. When pensions started getting gutted, executives told investors that equity dividends (ie stock price) would go up. When health and safety regulations were relaxed, entreprenuers were told that their net profit would rise.

    A lot of Whites bought into these changes because they thought they’d win.

    White-Americans especially bought into Reagan’s myth of an old “frontier America.” A place where “up by their bootstraps” strivers became wealthy through hard work. A place where people were “too proud” to take help from the govt. Unfortunately, this place was supposedly “destroyed” by unions, liberals, socialists, activist types, “big government” bureaucrats, LBJ’s Great Society, and 60s hippies. Reagan sold the public the myth that by embracing his laissez-faire economic plan, it could be “morning in America” again.

    Most White-Americans forgot the role that the labor movement played in raising wages and working conditions during the late 1800s and early/mid 1900s. Most White-Americans forgot about FDR’s New Deal and the “big government” Keynesianism of the Eisenhower-Nixon era. That’s how Reagan was able to con the public with slick imagery of a place that never existed.

    Michael Moore sums up the Reagan/Thatcher era pretty well.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  223. Corvinus says:
    @notanon

    “i would have killed all the other embryos.”

    I figured that you would troll here. Inspired by Mr. Rational?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  224. Corvinus says:
    @Lucas McCrudy

    “Correction: It’s Your religious beliefs which value the so-called “sanctity of life.””

    It is the religious beliefs of many groups, one of which I am part of.

    “I’m agnostic so I don’t find it morally objectionable to discard a microscopic embryo, completely inanimate and incapable of feeling any pain, if that’s what the donors responsible for it decide to do.”

    Exactly why there will be an eventual discussion, and potential government intervention, on this matter.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  225. Corvinus says:
    @gabriel alberton

    “No formed opinion on the matter here, but it’s possibly worth noting that congressional action in the United States will not prevent China from pursuing human genetic modification, possibly (some say certainly) leaving the rest of the world — or at least the United States — behind. (There are a couple posts at West Hunter about this)”

    So if others are jumping off a cliff, so should we?

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  226. Anon87 says:

    In regards to analyzing genes and predicting behavior, has anyone thought about gathering DNA samples from those people profiled in feel good local news stories, “104 year old granny shares her secret to longetivity – daily bacon and cigarettes!”? It seems like there has to be something there to learn.

  227. @Corvinus

    Interesting how some fine posters here are of the apparent mindset that white couple have the right to kill off their future offspring should they have a “defect”, despite abortion being illegal in our nation.

    What got the National Socialists crossing the line into first-degree murder was a loyal German couple who offered up their severely disabled year-old son for eugenic infanticide. Whether this was for noble or for selfish purposes is hard to say, as the interests aligned.

    You, Crowman, are the one who threw a hissy fit when I said I didn’t care about my East African neighbors’ clitorides. But if we don’t like what they do, then don’t invite them.

    Assimilation is, in fact, genocide.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  228. @JohnnyWalker123

    General Motors was bailed out by the Carter Administration. Reagan opposed it on principle. Walter Mondale defended the action in his 1984 campaign.

    This is what it got him:


    Four counties, just one in the Lower Peninsula where 98% of the state lives.

    The only difference between bailing out banks and bailing out automakers is the number of voters whose jobs are saved. Otherwise, they’re equally indefensible.

    You know who got that right? Which division of GM was allowed to wither and die? Saab. In “socialist” Sweden!

    So if someone was especially greedy or ostentation with their wealth, they were shamed.

    This is Puritanism. The most Puritan counties in America were also the most anti-Roosevelt. Look it up.

    At any rate, the working classes, of all races, are hardly dismissive of ostentation. Haven’t you checked out the checkout lane at the supermarket?

    …and unions kept wages high.

    They kept their own wages high. “I got mine, Jack,” as they say in Old Blighty. They’ve shown almost no concern for those workers outside their ranks. The one policy they backed that helped those non-members, immigration restriction, was abandonded to please their political puppeteers. The ones who used to be their puppets.

    And that policy was the work of 1920s Republicans, not 1930s Democrats.

    You know who really hates unions in America? Not the businessmen, who see them as just another frustrating cost of business. No, it’s the non-union working people. I’ve met many.

    That makes sense, if you accept economists’ claim that collective bargaining doesn’t shift wealth between classes as it much as it does within classes.

  229. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    The problem is that–with so many women delaying childbirth into middle age–more such children are conceived nowadays than in past.

  230. Anonymous[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    They don’t allow anonymous names on that site. Of course, you can make up some pseudonym, but the first time you get into an argument with someone, they will report you for using a fake name and your account will be blocked until you submit proof of identity.

  231. Corvinus says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “What got the National Socialists crossing the line into first-degree murder was a loyal German couple who offered up their severely disabled year-old son for eugenic infanticide.”

    What are you even babbling about? What event are you specifically referring to? Are you suggesting this particular event triggered the National Socialists into formulating, executing, and justifying their racial policies?

    “Whether this was for noble or for selfish purposes is hard to say, as the interests aligned.”

    How convenient for you to sweep things under the rug.

    “You, Crowman, are the one who threw a hissy fit when I said I didn’t care about my East African neighbors’ clitorides.”

    The hissy fit is all you. And your lack of concern for your fellow human being is telling.

    “Assimilation is, in fact, genocide.”

    You are being your typical over dramatic self. Using your own logic, when the English took over the Dutch colony of New York in 1664, and they began to adapt and adopt to “foreign” customs and began willingly to marry each other and sire offspring, then genocide took place. Do you even think before you speak? Wait, don’t answer that question, we already know.

    Again do you support or oppose that ruling (Bell vs. Buck)? Try not to be vague.

    What say you about the “encouragement or coercion of people to use embryo screening to prevent babies that likely are to grow up to be dullards?” Try not to be vague.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  232. gregor says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The number I remember from Hugh Thomas’s book The Slave Trade is under 500k brought to North America, not all of whom survived. Overall, there were around 11 million brought over with the vast majority brought to the Caribbean and Brazil. Whatever the exact numbers, it destroys the myth of slavery being a sin unique to the American South.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @notanon
  233. notanon says:
    @gregor

    it also contradicts the idea that America’s wealth was built on slavery – if it was true then why aren’t those regions 22 times wealthier?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The sources of America’s immigration problems—and a possible solution
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Hundreds of POWs may have been left to die in Vietnam, abandoned by their government—and our media.