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Some Brazilian genome background from fellow Unz Review blogger Razib Khan. First, from 2011:

The Pith: Brazil is often portrayed as the second largest black nation in the world, after Nigeria. But it turns out that the majority of the ancestors for non-white Brazilians are European. …

…my post showing that Argentina is not quite as European a country as it likes to consider itself is regularly cited in online arguments … But last week in PLoS ONE a paper looking at the patterns of ancestry in the Brazilian population came to a somewhat inverse conclusion as to the self-conception or perception of the preponderant racial identity of that nation. Let me quote from the conclusion of the paper:

Among the actions of the State in the sphere of race relations are initiatives aimed at strengthening racial identity, especially “Black identity” encompassing the sum of those self-categorized as Brown or Black in the censuses and government surveys. … Nevertheless, our data presented here do not support such contention, since they show that, for instance, non-White individuals in the North, Northeast and Southeast have predominantly European ancestry and differing proportions of African and Amerindian ancestry.

The idea that Brazil is majority non-white, that is black, is one I’ve seen elsewhere. Using the American model of hypodescent, where children inherit the racial status of their most stigmatized ancestral component, no matter its magnitude, well over half of Brazilians are “black.” On the other hand, there’s the persistent trend in the recent analyses which show that black Brazilians have a much higher load of European ancestry than black Americans, while white Brazilians have a much higher load of Amerindian and African, than white Americans.

In all regions studied, the European ancestry was predominant, with proportions ranging from 60.6% in the Northeast to 77.7% in the South. We propose that the immigration of six million Europeans to Brazil in the 19th and 20th centuries – a phenomenon described and intended as the “whitening of Brazil” – is in large part responsible for dissipating previous ancestry dissimilarities that reflected region-specific population histories.

Another aspect is Brazil was a much more common destination of the trans-Atlantic slave trade than the United States. Brazil was much closer to Africa, so the cost of transport and the losses enroute were lower. Plus, the Brazilian sugar economy tended to work slaves to death rapidly. Sugar was a terrible business. Among American slaves, the hierarchy of desirable jobs went something like house or skilled craft slave, tobacco (which involved a lot of semi-skilled indoor sedentary work such as rolling cigars), cotton, and finally sugar. (That’s why Jim, the runaway slave, in Huckleberry Finn is terrified of being caught and “sold down the river” to the sugar plantations of Louisiana.)

So, Brazil isn’t anywhere near as black relative to the U.S. as their respective shares of the Atlantic slave trade would suggest to the naive. Similarly, the long-running Arab slave trade out of East Africa has left a more modest genetic footprint, due to working slaves to death and castration. (It would also be interesting to know about the genetic footprint left by the sizable Islamic trans-Mediterranean slave trade, but this topic of former great interest among Europeans, such as Mozart’s opera Abduction from the Seraglio, isn’t talked about much these days, since historic examples of whites being victimized are considered in poor taste.)

… Nevertheless, after 10 years of these sorts of papers I am convinced that there really does seem to be a fair amount of admixture in the Brazilian population across color lines.

To get a sense of national patterns the authors report that a 2008 survey indicated that of Brazilians 48.4% identified as white, 43.8% as brown, 6.8% as black, 0.6% as yellow, and 0.3% indigenous. These are social constructs. In fact, it seems likely that the indigenous genetic contribution to the total Brazilian population is actually 10-15%, relatively evenly distributed across the white, black, and brown categories. Additionally, American sociologists have generally observed that while very light-skinned individuals with some African ancestry self-identify as black in the USA, in Brazil the same individuals would probably identify as white. That’s a function of the differences between North American and Brazilian societies.

Something that’s going on here is the Two Sisters Effect, which works differently in Brazil than in traditional U.S.. Say that two fraternal twin sisters are born of one parent who is pure black and one who is pure white. One sister is relatively fair in coloration, the other relatively dark. In the traditional U.S. under the One Drop Rule, both would be considered black, although the fairer sister might be invited to join the Jack and Jill Club and other black elite social institutions for those who can pass Paper Bag Test.

In Brazil, however, where there was a Color Contiuum rather than a Color Line, the fair sister is more likely to marry up the social ladder toward the whiter part of society while the darker sister is likely to marry down the social ladder toward the darker part of society. But the rest of their genes besides those affecting coloration are likely to be fairly randomly distributed according to their mutual ancestry.

So, over many generations under this kind of selection, there will be more differentiation between genes for coloration/looks and genes for everything else in Brazil than in the U.S.

Razib points out a paper noting that steamship-era Mediterranean immigrants to Brazil tended to be mostly male, who presumably tended to attract Brazilian wives (at least among those who stayed), who were likely of racially mixed backgrounds:

First, of 1,222,282 immigrants from all origins that arrived in the Port of Santos in the period 1908–1936 the sex ratio (males/females) was 1.76…Second. the two most abundant immigrants, Portuguese and Italians, had sex ratios of 2.12 and 1.83, respectively.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of Italian immigrants to America and Brazil in this regard.

More recently, Razib cites a 2014 abstract:

The Brazilian EPIGEN Initiative: admixture, history and epidemiology at high resolution

Eduardo Tarazona-Santos, et al

As part of the largest Latin-American genomic initiative, we studied three Brazilian longitudinal populational cohorts: Salvador-Bahia (n=1309), Bambui (n=1442) and Pelotas (n=3736) from Northeast, Southeast and Southern Brazil respectively. … While Amerindian ancestry was low (5-7% at population level, with no individual with > 30% of this ancestry), the three populations showed individuals with all possible combinations of African and European ancestry. At population level, African ancestry ranged from 14-15% in Pelotas and Bambui to 51% in Salvador. Our unprecedented high-resolution analysis of population structure of Brazilians in a worldwide context shows that European and African contributions differ from African-Americans at subcontinental level, due to a Mediterranean component and to the African origins of immigrants that in Brazil include Mozambique and Angola (not included in current genomic initiatives).

 
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  1. while very light-skinned individuals with some African ancestry self-identify as black in the USA, in Brazil the same individuals would probably identify as white. That’s a function of the differences between North American and Brazilian societies.

    Specifically it’s a function of the fact that in American society in the 21st century it is advantageous to count as “black” rather than white, even if (or especially if) you are 95% white, while in Brazil things work the other away around. Here in the US the sweet spot is to have the IQ and the cultural values of whites along with enough black skin to get in on the affirmative action gravy train. People in this sweet spot can go very far indeed – even all the way to the White House.

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  2. In Brazil, however, where there was a Color Contiuum rather than a Color Line ..

    I don’t think the past tense is apt here, America has a Color Line to this day.

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  3. But you also people like this in Brazil: http://sadbrazilians.tumblr.com/image/91185961566

    Which suggests that everyone doesn’t have non-European ancestry. I would guess ~40% of Brazilians are what Americans would consider white, maybe ~30% are what we’d consider black, and then the rest (minus the ethnic Japanese minority) are what would pass for Latino here.

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    • Replies: @Marcio
    Actually you can't really tell if this girl has non-european ancestry or not just by her picture. This is the main point of those Brazilian studies that Khan is quoting. Because there was so much mixing and for such a long time (since the 1500s) you just can't guess the genetics of a Brazilian by it's look. There is tons of fair skinned and blonde brazilians with some black and/or native-brazilian ancestry.

    This is very obvious for Brazilians that come from a very mixed family (I have cousins that are blonder than the girl in your picture as well as very black cousins, all from the same family) but I'm glad that people are actually studying this in a more scientific manner.

    And about Brazilians passing for "latino":

    I lived for 6 years in the US. One year in NY, 5 years in San Francisco. In NY everyone would assume I was hispanic, Porto-rican or Mexican to be more specific.

    In San Francisco almost NO ONE thought that, which was very odd. In fact, people would try to guess my nationality all the time: Israeli, Spanish, italian, Indian, Arab, etc...

    I guess because there is so many mexicans in California they know the difference but they can't really pinpoint what I'm, because there isn't that many Brazilians in SF.
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  5. To get a sense of national patterns the authors report that a 2008 survey indicated that of Brazilians 48.4% identified as white, 43.8% as brown, 6.8% as black, 0.6% as yellow, and 0.3% indigenous.

    I am assuming by 43.8% brown, they mean mostly white/black mixture. In the USA blacks makeup about 13%. If we broke down race stats like they do in Brazil, the black component would more than likely fall to below 10%. I wonder if this would be better in the long run since it would seem to diminish the power of the Jesse Jacksons of the world. If you had a separate classification for significantly mixed people, it might serve as a means to weaken the KKKrazy clue you often mention.

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    • Replies: @Marcio
    "I am assuming by 43.8% brown, they mean mostly white/black mixture. "

    This is a very polemic topic in Brazil. Lots of people, myself included, don't think the majority of this 43.8% is black/white, even though the IBGE (the government agency that is responsible for the Census) likes to count this way, after years of pressure from North-American ONGS.

    You have some regions in Brazil where a good amount of people are mixed with native-brazilians (especially North and Center -West), sometimes mixed with white, sometimes with black, a lot of times with both.

    One hint is in our language. In Brazilian portuguese, "caboclo" (a term for mixed race people of white/native-brazilian ancestry) it's also used for rural people of the country side.
    If most mixed people were black/white, the term used would be "mulato", not "caboclo". The use of "caboclo" shows that, at least in some regions, the majority has antive-brazilian ancestry.
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  6. “black Brazilians have a much higher load of European ancestry than black Americans,”

    Even in Salvador, Bahia which is suppose to be the “Blackest” city in Brazil, the average local still has more European admixture than the average African American.

    The average African American is 80 percent Sub Saharan African, while the average person in Salvador, Bahia is 49 percent Sub Saharan African.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador,_Bahia#Demographics

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  7. Brazil is a useful model for the US, where I don’t think in 50 or 100 years we will have a “black race” or “black people” although the number of people with dark skin will be about the same percentage as today. Intermarriage and african/caribbean immmigration will destroy what we know as the black race.

    I can’t say for certain with Italian immigrants to Brazil, but you can clearly see that the ones to Argentina were mostly 1) from northern italy; 2) came with families; and 3) tended to stay as opposed to immigrants to the USA. That is why italian food is better there — the women actualy cooked it as opposed to men re-creating momma’s food.

    All these studies are leaving out the massive arab immigration as well.

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  8. Brazil is garbage.. The rest of the week/year is going to be late-nite hosts’ jokes about waxing and defense treaties w/ Poland. Anyway I’ll be over with my race of supermen singing “Tomorrow Belongs To Me” down at Der Wienerschnitzel

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  9. Is Alexi Lalas white?

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  10. I’d like to see a genetic analysis of Uruguay, Costa Rica, and Chile.

    Argentina is a in the news a lot, compared to these other places, so I’d seen enough TV footage of its people to know that they’re much more Mestizo than they claim, but not of the others. I’ve already forgotten what Chile’s soccer team looked like, I think they were basically Mestizo, but they generally admit this in surveys. Costa Rica though is often said to be majority white, but their team appeared to be almost entirely Mestizo (in terms of European contribution, their Mestizos looked to be about midway between Argentina and Mexico). Uruguay’s team though, aside from the blacks and Mulattoes, looked like Mediterranean whites, like they could have been team Greece or Italy.

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  11. @Dave Pinsen
    But you also people like this in Brazil: http://sadbrazilians.tumblr.com/image/91185961566

    Which suggests that everyone doesn't have non-European ancestry. I would guess ~40% of Brazilians are what Americans would consider white, maybe ~30% are what we'd consider black, and then the rest (minus the ethnic Japanese minority) are what would pass for Latino here.

    Actually you can’t really tell if this girl has non-european ancestry or not just by her picture. This is the main point of those Brazilian studies that Khan is quoting. Because there was so much mixing and for such a long time (since the 1500s) you just can’t guess the genetics of a Brazilian by it’s look. There is tons of fair skinned and blonde brazilians with some black and/or native-brazilian ancestry.

    This is very obvious for Brazilians that come from a very mixed family (I have cousins that are blonder than the girl in your picture as well as very black cousins, all from the same family) but I’m glad that people are actually studying this in a more scientific manner.

    And about Brazilians passing for “latino”:

    I lived for 6 years in the US. One year in NY, 5 years in San Francisco. In NY everyone would assume I was hispanic, Porto-rican or Mexican to be more specific.

    In San Francisco almost NO ONE thought that, which was very odd. In fact, people would try to guess my nationality all the time: Israeli, Spanish, italian, Indian, Arab, etc…

    I guess because there is so many mexicans in California they know the difference but they can’t really pinpoint what I’m, because there isn’t that many Brazilians in SF.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I guess it depends on the part of the country. There are parts of southern Brazil where Japanese, German, and Italian ethnics seem to have pretty much kept culturally and ethnically separate. See, for example, the ethnic German Brazilian basketball player Tiago Splitter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiago_Splitter , or the model Ana Cláudia Michels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Cl%C3%A1udia_Michels

    I don't think either of them has non-European ancestry, and I think that's true of most folks from their hometown of Joinville.
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  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Tangentially related to the Two Sisters effect:

    Could we not convince some doubters about the the reality of racial IQ heritability by showing that that IQ deficits of part-black individuals are more closely related to their actual percentage of black ancestry than to their perceived “blackness” as judged by appearance?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Charles Murray proposed that as a strong test of nature v. nurture in race and intelligence.
    , @AnAnon
    their doubt is based on irrational status seeking, not geniune good faith, so it would be unlikely.
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  13. @Anonymous
    Tangentially related to the Two Sisters effect:

    Could we not convince some doubters about the the reality of racial IQ heritability by showing that that IQ deficits of part-black individuals are more closely related to their actual percentage of black ancestry than to their perceived "blackness" as judged by appearance?

    Charles Murray proposed that as a strong test of nature v. nurture in race and intelligence.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    And the results of such a study could clarify our understanding of humankind more than anything else in generations. Which is why such a study won't happen anytime soon, I presume... the powerful are very invested in maintaining the currently perceived reality.
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  14. @Steve Sailer
    Charles Murray proposed that as a strong test of nature v. nurture in race and intelligence.

    And the results of such a study could clarify our understanding of humankind more than anything else in generations. Which is why such a study won’t happen anytime soon, I presume… the powerful are very invested in maintaining the currently perceived reality.

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  15. Priss Factor [AKA "Cloudcastler"] says:

    “but this topic of former great interest among Europeans, such as Mozart’s opera Abduction from the Seraglio, isn’t talked about much these days, since historic examples of whites being victimized are considered in poor taste.”

    And Eskimos were involved in the trade, and we can’t offend Eskimo sensibilities.

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  16. Is Alexi Lalas white?

    If you consider his half-greek portion white, then yes.

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  17. A basic law:

    white + color = color

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  18. Brazil’s genetics are not surprisingly very complex. Five centuries of intermixing between dozens of different groups from four continents will do that, but certain points need to be considered.

    1. The Colonial Period: Of course the major trends of this period are the settlement of Europeans and the importation of African slaves. Also, many of the coastal Indian tribes were conquered and their women became brides and mistresses of the Portuguese colonists. What is interesting is that certain factors at that early stage shaped things:

    -The overwhelming number of African slaves were male, and were overwhelmingly from South and East Africa rather than the West Africans found in other colonies. Bahia remains the focal point of West Africans who were brought over.

    -Exact ratios are not clear, but the male slaves might have been anywhere from 65 to 90 percent of the total, and were in a poor position to start families. The Portuguese men monopolized the most desirable African women for themselves.

    -Most of the slaves lasted only a few years working in the sugar plantations, but some of them did escape to form Quilombos: colonies deep in the interior of Brazil that preserved much of their lifestyle from Africa. The story of King Zumbi of Palmares is one of the most famous of the period, but it was the smaller colonies that survived to the present. Their descendents are not surprisingly the most strongly African-descended Brazilians around today, but they still on average resemble Black Americans rather than full-blooded Africans.

    - Some 700,000 or more Europeans settled in Brazil, most of them in the 18th century. Almost all were Portuguese, with a small smattering of others like Italians, Spainards, and even Germans (see the Rollemberg family or the founding of Novo Friburgo for examples). The Portuguese came mostly from the North and the Azores, way out of proportion to the rest of the country. 90% were males, but the families that were from white couples were extremely prolific, rich families with 6 to 12 children were rather common (See José Bonifácio de Andrada e Silva and his brothers for examples of the native aristocracy of the period).

    -Those Portuguese men who could not find a European bride would always try to marry a lighter bride whenever possible. Within four or five generations the African and Indian ancestry in a family could become easily submerged to less than an eight of the total. It depended on how wealthy you were. If you made it big, your family could marry into one of the richer (i.e. Whiter) families, and the effect would pick up steam with your children and subsequent generations.

    -Even if you never made it big, your daughters might still have ended up marrying another settler off the boat, so there was a diffusion effect going on in the lower rungs of society as well.

    -On the other end, many mixed-raced people did start families with Indian and African freedmen and women. This kept those populations prominent in Brazil’s demographics, as is clear to this day.

    I’ll continue this in another post.

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  19. […] Source: Steve Sailer […]

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  20. Reader:”A basic law:

    white + color = color”

    Incorrect:

    “One of the main facts about American life is hypodescent, “the practice of determining the lineage of a child of mixed-race ancestry by assigning the child the race of his or her more socially subordinate parent.” Barack Obama & the Kenyan politician Raila Odinga (who, probably falsely, claims to be Obama’s first cousin) are both “black,” despite the fact that when compared to each other Obama’s substantial European ancestry is rather clear. I recall years ago watching the Oprah Winfrey television show where they were discussing the issue of self-hatred with a young black woman who was attempting to become impregnated by a white man (any white man) so that her children would “look white” and be beautiful. An adoption counselor rose up and told this young woman that her agency had many biracial children who they were attempting to place, and “none of them look white, they all look black.” The clear and present background axiom here is that the power of black phenotype ensured the futility of this young woman’s “quest.”

    In hindsight it seems to me that these perceptions are mostly socially constructed. Years ago I had a friend who was of mixed European and Japanese origin who was raised in Japan. I recall once that someone stated that they were surprised that her father was a white American, as she looked “totally Japanese.” My friend got irritated, and replied that that was rather interesting as growing up in Japan people would tell her how white she looked. Obviously these sorts of gestalt perceptions are scaffolded by social context; in Japan my friend’s white characteristics were very salient, while in the United States her Japanese ones were. The norms of reference were socially conditioned, so the scaling of phenotype did not have a linearly proportional effect on perception in identity. In other words, a rather small absolute physical deviation from the social norm can elicit strong relative perceptions of difference.

    All that being said, phenotypes do not emerge just out of our own minds, rather, they often genetically controlled. I have posted a fair amount on skin color because within the last 5 years we’ve really figured out how it shapes the normal range of human variation. In short, about half a dozen loci seem to account for nearly all the between population differences in complexion. But I was talking to a friend today and explained how I realized recently that the nature of the genetic architecture was actually rather counterintuitive from an American perspective. In short, whiteness is dominant!
    More precisely, I noticed that two of the loci of largest effect, SLC24A5 and KITLG, manifest a dominance component in terms of lightening skin color. In other words, if you took a West African and a Northern European their offspring would exhibit a lighter complexion than you would expect from simply blending the two phenotypes. Here’s a table to illustrate what I’m talking about:

    Genotype M Index decrement

    SLC24A, rs1426654, GG (homozygous African) 0.0
    SLC24A, rs1426654, AG (heterozygote) -7
    SLC24A, rs1426654, AA (homozygous European) -9.6

    KITLG, rs642742, AA (homozygous African) 0.0
    KITLG, rs642742, AG (heterozygote) -4.3
    KITLG, rs642742, GG (homozygous European) -6.4

    In the case of SLC24A5 an ancestral guanine base mutated into an adenine at a particular position. For KITLG the reverse occurred. These changes resulted in an operational loss of function in relation to the melanin production for humans so that skin became lighter, and the variant was picked up and driven toward fixation among Europeans by natural selection. The table above illustrates the values of decrease in M index as you substitute an allele on the locus; as you can see, there are diminishing returns. This means that the heterozyogte state is closer to one than the other when taken against a genetic background. Fortunately for us I don’t need to get into statistical assumptions about averaging when comparing Europeans and Africans when it comes to skin color genes; the two populations have very different genetic backgrounds in reference to the variance we’re interested in. For SLC24A5 Europeans and West Africans exhibit disjoint allelic states, almost all Europeans carry the derived variant, while almost all Africans carry the ancestral. For KITLG the numbers are not as extreme, with each population having an 80-95% proportion for the major allele, but the minor allele frequencies are rare enough that its homozygotes are extant on the order of 1%. In other words, if an African and a Northern European produced offspring chances are they would be heterozygotes on these loci.
    We know that West Africans average around 60 for their M Index, while Europeans around 30. That’s a 30 unit spectrum. Adding up the unit effects above you see that SLC24A5 and KITLG account for 16 of them, in other words, over half of the between population variation in skin color in regards to West Africans and Europeans can be attributed to differences on these two genes! Let’s assume that additivity and independence apply to the 14 units not accounted for by these two genes. What does the dominance effect manifest on SLC24A5 and KITLG tell us in regards to the expectation for the offspring? I’ll avoid descripition and make recourse to illustration:

    This surprised me. The reason is that the emergence of light skin seems to be a case of a loss function mutation. Europeans and East Asians have been subject to sweeps which selected for lighter skin within the last 20,000 years, and these sweeps tend to be independent. This is what you would expect from simple loss of functions which constantly occur in the genetic background of the population, but are normally purified because they are deleterious. In contrast, the genetic architecture for very dark-skinned peoples is very similar; the skin color related genes of Bougainville Islanders show identity by state with those of Africans, though these populations are not closely related (Bougainville Islanders are more closely related to East Asians than the typical African since the former are both descended from a Northeast African ancestral population). It should be noted though that the dominance effect would definitely aid in the spread of these alleles through a population because of their immediate exposure to selection due to their strong expression in heterozygote genotypes.

    I think this is all rather interesting because at least judging from emails I receive the general perception is that dark skin is a dominant trait. This is true, if you bin the phenotypes into “dark” and “white,” so that the latter only includes complexions around a narrow range of 30 melanin units. In contrast, when you examine the issue quantitatively it doesn’t turn out that way at all. At a coarse first glance a blending/additive model seems to be appropriate for modeling skin color as a quantitative trait, but upon closer inspection dominance effects need to be noted. Instead of being buried in a rising tide of color, a panmictic world would exhibit a stronger effect of au lait. Next time someone brings up the blondes going extinct meme, you might want to point this out (after explaining the nature of the expression of complex traits in diploid organisms first of course).”

    (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/05/fear-of-a-white-planet/#.U74NSpRdWHg)

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.

    Blackness as a relatively dominant trait or traits was an argument made by an Anglo-Kenyan anthropologist Jonathan Kingdon back in the 1990s. In contrast, Australian Aboriginal looks are widely considered to be relatively recessive. Of course there is lot more to looks than skin color -- the Aboriginal phenotype, for example, seems to come in a variety of colors. Has anybody looked at Aboriginal genetics?

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  21. cloudcastler:”And Eskimos were involved in the trade, and we can’t offend Eskimo sensibilities.”

    Childish euphemisms, eh?

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  22. 2. ‘The Great Wave of Immigration”:

    -Between 1858 and 1963, some five and a half million immigrants settled in Brazil, and with the exception of some 120,000 Japanese and 100,000 Middle Easterners (who mostly came from Lebanon and Syria and were Christian) they were Europeans of one sort or another, and even a few thousand White Americans migrated as well. About 66% stayed permanently, as opposed to around 53% in Argentina, so in some ways this wave affected Brazil even more profoundly then its neighbor, but then again Brazil had about ten times the population to start with, so the immigrants never outnumbered the natives.

    -The immigrants were exceptionally prolific. Even the Germans had sky-high birthrates in the 19th century; much higher than that found in Argentina and yet another reason why European ancestry is so common in Brazil despite the large number of people of full and partial African and Indian ancestry they lived among. These groups also tended to be very insular for several generations before they started intermarrying with the other Brazilians.

    -Italians were the biggest group by a slight margin, with the Northerners coming first and staying dominant until about 1900, when the Southerners replaced them. The North Italians settled mostly in the South of Brazil, and also in the South East. The Southerners mostly went to the South East and to a lesser extent the rest of the country. The difference between the labor roles of the earlier and later Italian immigrants is a fascinating story in itself, but the big roles they tended to fill were in agriculture, banking and industry. They played a critical role in Brazil’s industrialization, with the story of Count Francesco Matarazzo and his progeny being the most striking example. The Count’s descendents are still active in Brazilian business and politics some eight decades after his death.

    -Portuguese were the next largest group, they settled everywhere, and much like in the colonial period they tended to come from the North of Portugal (Minho in particular). They tended to be merchants and farmers and blended in with the locals easily.

    -Spaniards were numerous and tended to come from Andalusia, with Galicians forming the next biggest group. They tended to either blend in or set up small towns in the interior of Sao Paulo state, where many such settlements still have aspects of Spanish culture present.

    -Germans. Only about 250,000 came over, but they obviously have left their mark on the country. They settled overwhelmingly in the South, but also went to the big cities of other regions as well. The first settlers formed exclusive little colonies on the frontier, and had huge families. Within a century the most successful colonies grew into large cities with Germanic architecture and monuments. Gisele Bündchen is a sixth-generation descendent of such colonists, but a few others married into Portuguese and Italian families relatively early. There was sort of a low-grade kulturkampf between the Brazilian government in Rio and the German colonists of the South up until World War II, when the German Brazilians finally assimilated as a result of patriotism and new language laws passed by the dictator Vargas (himself a man from the South who knew much about the local settler culture). As a whole Germans have contributed immensely to Brazilian Industry and Science… and beer, I would be remiss to leave that out.

    -Slavs (Mostly Poles and Catholic Ukrainians) settled almost entirely in the Southern state of Parana, and still make up a sizable chunk of the population there. A lot of them were farmers who moved to the cities later.

    -Other European groups came as well; for example the French made an impact on Rio back when it was fashionable for a wealthy Brazilian patriarch to import a foreign chef or gardener for his mansion. As a whole these other Europeans tended to cluster in Sao Paulo city and the surrounding area. Sao Paulo is in many ways the New York of the Southern hemisphere, and the hodgepodge of European immigrants who built it played a big role in that.

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    Thanks.
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  23. I would also like to see something like this about Uruguay, since it’s said to be the whitest country in Latin America (Euro 88%, Mestizo 8%, Black 4%, Amerindian <1%).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Uruguay

    From what I've read on wiki it looks to be the best country in Latin America as well. I'm curious what bad I might be missing if anyone knows.

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  24. “Could we not convince some doubters about the the reality of racial IQ heritability by showing that that IQ deficits of part-black individuals are more closely related to their actual percentage of black ancestry than to their perceived “blackness” as judged by appearance?”

    I haven’t found any systematic study about this subject, but all the evidence I have seen so far about differences in IQ or educational achievement among races (or colors) in Brazil don’t support a genetic explanation. In one study that has been cited by Lynn, a difference of 1 SD was found between whites and brown IQ, and almos 2 SD between whites and blacks. PISA scores variation in Brazilian states show a similar picture: The south (the whitest ones) come on top while the North and Northeast (the most “black/brown”) in the botton. As far as I remember, the difference between the highest score and the lowest one was close to one SD.

    If the genetic difference between these groups is so small, how to explain such big disparities? It seems that, at least in Brazil, race as social construct has a better explanatory power.

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  25. As a final point. I will post a link to a website:

    http://www.cofeci.gov.br/utilidade-publica/avaliadores-de-imoveis.html

    This is a registry of Brazilian real estate agents. Normally that would not be very relevant to the topic at hand, but in this case it is a photo registry organized by city and state. There are some ten thousand members currently registered there by name with it being updated on a monthly basis. You can get a good feel for how Brazilians look by region by gazing over it when you have some free time. I will let readers draw their own conclusions about it, but I think it both confirms and challenges many preconceptions of the appearance of Brazilians.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    http://www.cofeci.gov.br/utilidade-publica/avaliadores-de-imoveis.html

    "This is a registry of Brazilian real estate agents."

    Very interesting - you can compare, say, what real estate agents look like in Salvador in Bahia state versus Curitiba in Parana state.

    Curitiba is fairly far south in Brazil and is at a little over 3,000 feet elevation. It's well-known for its efficient bus rapid transit system.

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  26. @Cicero
    2. 'The Great Wave of Immigration":

    -Between 1858 and 1963, some five and a half million immigrants settled in Brazil, and with the exception of some 120,000 Japanese and 100,000 Middle Easterners (who mostly came from Lebanon and Syria and were Christian) they were Europeans of one sort or another, and even a few thousand White Americans migrated as well. About 66% stayed permanently, as opposed to around 53% in Argentina, so in some ways this wave affected Brazil even more profoundly then its neighbor, but then again Brazil had about ten times the population to start with, so the immigrants never outnumbered the natives.

    -The immigrants were exceptionally prolific. Even the Germans had sky-high birthrates in the 19th century; much higher than that found in Argentina and yet another reason why European ancestry is so common in Brazil despite the large number of people of full and partial African and Indian ancestry they lived among. These groups also tended to be very insular for several generations before they started intermarrying with the other Brazilians.

    -Italians were the biggest group by a slight margin, with the Northerners coming first and staying dominant until about 1900, when the Southerners replaced them. The North Italians settled mostly in the South of Brazil, and also in the South East. The Southerners mostly went to the South East and to a lesser extent the rest of the country. The difference between the labor roles of the earlier and later Italian immigrants is a fascinating story in itself, but the big roles they tended to fill were in agriculture, banking and industry. They played a critical role in Brazil's industrialization, with the story of Count Francesco Matarazzo and his progeny being the most striking example. The Count's descendents are still active in Brazilian business and politics some eight decades after his death.

    -Portuguese were the next largest group, they settled everywhere, and much like in the colonial period they tended to come from the North of Portugal (Minho in particular). They tended to be merchants and farmers and blended in with the locals easily.

    -Spaniards were numerous and tended to come from Andalusia, with Galicians forming the next biggest group. They tended to either blend in or set up small towns in the interior of Sao Paulo state, where many such settlements still have aspects of Spanish culture present.

    -Germans. Only about 250,000 came over, but they obviously have left their mark on the country. They settled overwhelmingly in the South, but also went to the big cities of other regions as well. The first settlers formed exclusive little colonies on the frontier, and had huge families. Within a century the most successful colonies grew into large cities with Germanic architecture and monuments. Gisele Bündchen is a sixth-generation descendent of such colonists, but a few others married into Portuguese and Italian families relatively early. There was sort of a low-grade kulturkampf between the Brazilian government in Rio and the German colonists of the South up until World War II, when the German Brazilians finally assimilated as a result of patriotism and new language laws passed by the dictator Vargas (himself a man from the South who knew much about the local settler culture). As a whole Germans have contributed immensely to Brazilian Industry and Science... and beer, I would be remiss to leave that out.

    -Slavs (Mostly Poles and Catholic Ukrainians) settled almost entirely in the Southern state of Parana, and still make up a sizable chunk of the population there. A lot of them were farmers who moved to the cities later.

    -Other European groups came as well; for example the French made an impact on Rio back when it was fashionable for a wealthy Brazilian patriarch to import a foreign chef or gardener for his mansion. As a whole these other Europeans tended to cluster in Sao Paulo city and the surrounding area. Sao Paulo is in many ways the New York of the Southern hemisphere, and the hodgepodge of European immigrants who built it played a big role in that.

    Thanks.

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  27. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Between 1858 and 1963, some five and a half million immigrants settled in Brazil… even a few thousand White Americans migrated as well…”

    Those would mostly be Confederates who probably had a reason to worry that a pardon would not likely be granted for potential war crimes committed during the war.

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  28. @syonredux
    Reader:"A basic law:

    white + color = color"

    Incorrect:

    "One of the main facts about American life is hypodescent, “the practice of determining the lineage of a child of mixed-race ancestry by assigning the child the race of his or her more socially subordinate parent.” Barack Obama & the Kenyan politician Raila Odinga (who, probably falsely, claims to be Obama’s first cousin) are both “black,” despite the fact that when compared to each other Obama’s substantial European ancestry is rather clear. I recall years ago watching the Oprah Winfrey television show where they were discussing the issue of self-hatred with a young black woman who was attempting to become impregnated by a white man (any white man) so that her children would “look white” and be beautiful. An adoption counselor rose up and told this young woman that her agency had many biracial children who they were attempting to place, and “none of them look white, they all look black.” The clear and present background axiom here is that the power of black phenotype ensured the futility of this young woman’s “quest.”


    In hindsight it seems to me that these perceptions are mostly socially constructed. Years ago I had a friend who was of mixed European and Japanese origin who was raised in Japan. I recall once that someone stated that they were surprised that her father was a white American, as she looked “totally Japanese.” My friend got irritated, and replied that that was rather interesting as growing up in Japan people would tell her how white she looked. Obviously these sorts of gestalt perceptions are scaffolded by social context; in Japan my friend’s white characteristics were very salient, while in the United States her Japanese ones were. The norms of reference were socially conditioned, so the scaling of phenotype did not have a linearly proportional effect on perception in identity. In other words, a rather small absolute physical deviation from the social norm can elicit strong relative perceptions of difference.

    All that being said, phenotypes do not emerge just out of our own minds, rather, they often genetically controlled. I have posted a fair amount on skin color because within the last 5 years we’ve really figured out how it shapes the normal range of human variation. In short, about half a dozen loci seem to account for nearly all the between population differences in complexion. But I was talking to a friend today and explained how I realized recently that the nature of the genetic architecture was actually rather counterintuitive from an American perspective. In short, whiteness is dominant!
    More precisely, I noticed that two of the loci of largest effect, SLC24A5 and KITLG, manifest a dominance component in terms of lightening skin color. In other words, if you took a West African and a Northern European their offspring would exhibit a lighter complexion than you would expect from simply blending the two phenotypes. Here’s a table to illustrate what I’m talking about:

    Genotype M Index decrement

    SLC24A, rs1426654, GG (homozygous African) 0.0
    SLC24A, rs1426654, AG (heterozygote) -7
    SLC24A, rs1426654, AA (homozygous European) -9.6

    KITLG, rs642742, AA (homozygous African) 0.0
    KITLG, rs642742, AG (heterozygote) -4.3
    KITLG, rs642742, GG (homozygous European) -6.4

    In the case of SLC24A5 an ancestral guanine base mutated into an adenine at a particular position. For KITLG the reverse occurred. These changes resulted in an operational loss of function in relation to the melanin production for humans so that skin became lighter, and the variant was picked up and driven toward fixation among Europeans by natural selection. The table above illustrates the values of decrease in M index as you substitute an allele on the locus; as you can see, there are diminishing returns. This means that the heterozyogte state is closer to one than the other when taken against a genetic background. Fortunately for us I don’t need to get into statistical assumptions about averaging when comparing Europeans and Africans when it comes to skin color genes; the two populations have very different genetic backgrounds in reference to the variance we’re interested in. For SLC24A5 Europeans and West Africans exhibit disjoint allelic states, almost all Europeans carry the derived variant, while almost all Africans carry the ancestral. For KITLG the numbers are not as extreme, with each population having an 80-95% proportion for the major allele, but the minor allele frequencies are rare enough that its homozygotes are extant on the order of 1%. In other words, if an African and a Northern European produced offspring chances are they would be heterozygotes on these loci.
    We know that West Africans average around 60 for their M Index, while Europeans around 30. That’s a 30 unit spectrum. Adding up the unit effects above you see that SLC24A5 and KITLG account for 16 of them, in other words, over half of the between population variation in skin color in regards to West Africans and Europeans can be attributed to differences on these two genes! Let’s assume that additivity and independence apply to the 14 units not accounted for by these two genes. What does the dominance effect manifest on SLC24A5 and KITLG tell us in regards to the expectation for the offspring? I’ll avoid descripition and make recourse to illustration:

    This surprised me. The reason is that the emergence of light skin seems to be a case of a loss function mutation. Europeans and East Asians have been subject to sweeps which selected for lighter skin within the last 20,000 years, and these sweeps tend to be independent. This is what you would expect from simple loss of functions which constantly occur in the genetic background of the population, but are normally purified because they are deleterious. In contrast, the genetic architecture for very dark-skinned peoples is very similar; the skin color related genes of Bougainville Islanders show identity by state with those of Africans, though these populations are not closely related (Bougainville Islanders are more closely related to East Asians than the typical African since the former are both descended from a Northeast African ancestral population). It should be noted though that the dominance effect would definitely aid in the spread of these alleles through a population because of their immediate exposure to selection due to their strong expression in heterozygote genotypes.

    I think this is all rather interesting because at least judging from emails I receive the general perception is that dark skin is a dominant trait. This is true, if you bin the phenotypes into “dark” and “white,” so that the latter only includes complexions around a narrow range of 30 melanin units. In contrast, when you examine the issue quantitatively it doesn’t turn out that way at all. At a coarse first glance a blending/additive model seems to be appropriate for modeling skin color as a quantitative trait, but upon closer inspection dominance effects need to be noted. Instead of being buried in a rising tide of color, a panmictic world would exhibit a stronger effect of au lait. Next time someone brings up the blondes going extinct meme, you might want to point this out (after explaining the nature of the expression of complex traits in diploid organisms first of course)."

    (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/05/fear-of-a-white-planet/#.U74NSpRdWHg)

    Thanks.

    Blackness as a relatively dominant trait or traits was an argument made by an Anglo-Kenyan anthropologist Jonathan Kingdon back in the 1990s. In contrast, Australian Aboriginal looks are widely considered to be relatively recessive. Of course there is lot more to looks than skin color — the Aboriginal phenotype, for example, seems to come in a variety of colors. Has anybody looked at Aboriginal genetics?

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  29. Is there a post by anyone refuting the conclusion that comparing brazil and america really does indicate that race is indeed, to some extent, a social construct? Steve you should do a post to clarify this issue.

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  30. So sugar planting was a dangerous occupation. So what killed the plantation slaves? Was ot snake bites?

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    Often infections in cuts made on yourself while chopping away at sugar cane with a machete.
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  31. @Marcio
    Actually you can't really tell if this girl has non-european ancestry or not just by her picture. This is the main point of those Brazilian studies that Khan is quoting. Because there was so much mixing and for such a long time (since the 1500s) you just can't guess the genetics of a Brazilian by it's look. There is tons of fair skinned and blonde brazilians with some black and/or native-brazilian ancestry.

    This is very obvious for Brazilians that come from a very mixed family (I have cousins that are blonder than the girl in your picture as well as very black cousins, all from the same family) but I'm glad that people are actually studying this in a more scientific manner.

    And about Brazilians passing for "latino":

    I lived for 6 years in the US. One year in NY, 5 years in San Francisco. In NY everyone would assume I was hispanic, Porto-rican or Mexican to be more specific.

    In San Francisco almost NO ONE thought that, which was very odd. In fact, people would try to guess my nationality all the time: Israeli, Spanish, italian, Indian, Arab, etc...

    I guess because there is so many mexicans in California they know the difference but they can't really pinpoint what I'm, because there isn't that many Brazilians in SF.

    I guess it depends on the part of the country. There are parts of southern Brazil where Japanese, German, and Italian ethnics seem to have pretty much kept culturally and ethnically separate. See, for example, the ethnic German Brazilian basketball player Tiago Splitter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiago_Splitter , or the model Ana Cláudia Michels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Cl%C3%A1udia_Michels

    I don’t think either of them has non-European ancestry, and I think that’s true of most folks from their hometown of Joinville.

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    That's not really true. I'm from the South of Brazil myself, my hometown is Curitiba, I should know, trust me. Most people in Curitiba have Ucranian, Polish or German ancestry. But most of them are mixed with Brazilians with Iberian ancestry (like me). And most Brazilians with Iberian ancestry tend to be mixed even if they are socially 100% white.

    We do have a lot of "folklore"groups and clubs keeping the traditions of the immigrants but everything it's pretty open to anyone and people mix and intermingle a lot. It's pretty much the same in the States bellow. My brother (who's darker than me) lives for two years in Joinville - it's a very "german influenced" town, for sure but they are in NO WAY "culturally and ethnically separated".

    What happens is that the immigrant group that it's a majority in a city in Brazil tend to give a special "flavour" to that city that reaches all the people in the city. So, in the case of Curitiba, German food is very common as snacks in pubs (and the most famous pub in the city is the "Bar do Alemão"- The German Bar") and Pierogi (Polish dish) it's a very common and traditional food here, alongside typical Brazilian stuff (Pão-de-queijo, coxinha, etc...)

    Trust me they are not. What happens in the USA (I've lived 6 years in the US), where people get in ethnic enclaves simply doesn't happen here - the segregation here is by class, not race or ancestry.

    Even the japanese, that used to be more closed, are pretty integrated nowadays. To the point that a "common sense"myth in California (white woman don't like asian man) is proven totally untrue here in Brazil: it's VERY common for men with japanese ancestry to marry women that are white.

    I'm not saying that a blonde girl from a traditional German family won't have problems marrying a black dude, for example. But in Brazilian context, the Blonde Brazilian with German Ancestry, Darker Brazilian with the Iberian acnestry and even the "Moreno Claro" (Light Brown) are basically considered the same: branco. And all of that takes a back seat to social class.
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  32. @Anonymous
    So sugar planting was a dangerous occupation. So what killed the plantation slaves? Was ot snake bites?

    Often infections in cuts made on yourself while chopping away at sugar cane with a machete.

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  33. I would take anything Sailer states about other countries, especially Brazil, with a grain of salt. After all, Sailer is the guy who said that Brazilians don’t like to read based single-handedly on the testimony of some guy who was delayed at an airport for a few hours. He also claimed that Brazilians are into skin bleaching, which is actually VERY rare in the country – and I can state that with certainty because I lived there.

    FYI, the Brazilian magazine, “Veja”, did a genetic testing some years ago of large segments of Brazilian population, and the Brazilian elite is actually very pure European, with less than 1% non-white ancestry.

    There are plenty of Brazilians from traditional families that are obviously pure white: movie director, Fernado Meirelles, ex-billionaire, Eike Batista and the model, Ana Hickman, are examples of Brazilians who have neglegible non-Caucasian ancestry.

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  34. @Cicero
    As a final point. I will post a link to a website:

    http://www.cofeci.gov.br/utilidade-publica/avaliadores-de-imoveis.html

    This is a registry of Brazilian real estate agents. Normally that would not be very relevant to the topic at hand, but in this case it is a photo registry organized by city and state. There are some ten thousand members currently registered there by name with it being updated on a monthly basis. You can get a good feel for how Brazilians look by region by gazing over it when you have some free time. I will let readers draw their own conclusions about it, but I think it both confirms and challenges many preconceptions of the appearance of Brazilians.

    http://www.cofeci.gov.br/utilidade-publica/avaliadores-de-imoveis.html

    “This is a registry of Brazilian real estate agents.”

    Very interesting – you can compare, say, what real estate agents look like in Salvador in Bahia state versus Curitiba in Parana state.

    Curitiba is fairly far south in Brazil and is at a little over 3,000 feet elevation. It’s well-known for its efficient bus rapid transit system.

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  35. none of them look white, they all look black.

    The black-power types have the same rhetoric as Stormfront.

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  36. Actually you can’t really tell if this girl has non-european ancestry or not just by her picture.

    Yeah, you can’t tell. My cousin and I both have kids that are about 20% African and they’re completely indistinguishable from the general Germanic population.

    This doesn’t surprise Germans, who tend to assume that their genes will dominate, but it drives Americans crazy to think that it’s possible to move from black to white in only two generations. Their whole society depends upon carefully sorting people into separate races, so there’s no way for them to deal with white people with African ancestry.

    There are actually a lot of famous incognegros in the States, so I’m not sure why the theory persists.

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  37. @Alte – Most Brazilians I’ve seen with 80% white/20% black still look a bit blackish (e.g. actress Ildi Silva), but not too much because black ancestry is rarely West African in Brazil (mostly South and Eastern African) and there’s a lot of white paternal ancestry (which increased autosomal results) so they look very different from white/black mixes from the U.S.A.

    On the other hand, people who are 90% white/10% black look much whiter in Brazil.

    I’m not saying this because I’m a “purist”, or some other U.S. American centered theory, but because black appearance for some reason is dominant, and well it’s not recessive at all. It’s like black genetics need a nuclear bomb of “other genetics” (e.g. white Caucasian, Asian, Amerindian) before it starts “dying” out.

    Black looks aren’t generally recessive, and well nuclear attacks of other genetics (e.g. white Caucasian, Asian, Amerindian) are constantly necessary before it goes away.

    Thanks.

    Blackness as a relatively dominant trait or traits was an argument made by an Anglo-Kenyan anthropologist Jonathan Kingdon back in the 1990s. In contrast, Australian Aboriginal looks are widely considered to be relatively recessive. Of course there is lot more to looks than skin color — the Aboriginal phenotype, for example, seems to come in a variety of colors. Has anybody looked at Aboriginal genetics?

    I think Jonathan Kingdon is right Sailer. Black looks are more dominant.

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  38. RE: Brazil,

    Its track record in terms of human accomplishment has been quite weak. Only one Brazilian appears in Murray’s list of significant figures in the arts and the sciences in his HUMAN ACCOMPLISHMENT. Portugal does slightly better with 11.

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  39. Speaking of Brazil-

    “136 variations of Brazilian skin colors”

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/spo?guid=20140708/43171c73-8297-4f20-a91f-e2ecb5435454

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  40. Read More
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  41. @Anonymous
    Tangentially related to the Two Sisters effect:

    Could we not convince some doubters about the the reality of racial IQ heritability by showing that that IQ deficits of part-black individuals are more closely related to their actual percentage of black ancestry than to their perceived "blackness" as judged by appearance?

    their doubt is based on irrational status seeking, not geniune good faith, so it would be unlikely.

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  42. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This doesn’t surprise Germans, who tend to assume that their genes will dominate

    Not really so much dominance as the breaking up of gene complexes normally found together.
    Someone with skin that’s 1/4 Black, a nose 1/4 Black, lips 1/4 Black, hair 1/4 Black will look 1/4 Black.

    Someone with skin that’s the same as a White, a nose that’s 1/2 Black, lips the same as a White and hair 1/2 Black, won’t look 1/4 Black.

    After a couple generations, mixed outcomes like the latter case become likely (especially for facial features, where the differences are driven by a lot more genes).

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  43. @cicero:
    I took a look at the agents from Florianopolis and was expecting a bunch of Germans but they were morely White/Whiteish but Portuguese. That surprised me because I always thought of that place as one of those “german towns” of southern Brazil. Maybe I should try Blumenau :)

    Edit : I just tried Blumenau and it’s much more German and even the Italians and Portuguese look germanised.

    Re: white Brazilians people not being totally White
    I’m aware of Razib’s very interesting observations on the looks of people who come from a mixed background that’s multi-generational. When dealing with Brazilians, I don’t assume that a very dark skinned or even very african looking person is purely african. Just the same, I don’t assume that a totally white looking person is actually totally white. Does that reality pertain to the whole of Brazil ? Are there regions like the extreme south where there has not been much racial mixing and where appearance correlates very well with actual racial mix ?

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    • Replies: @FatDrunkAndStupid
    Florianopolis is located along the coast where Portuguese predominate (it is also a pretty big city and the state capital so the population is naturally going to be more cosmopolitan in nature). Germans tended to colonize inland where there was better farmland just like they did in North America. The amount of race mixing in Southern Brazil is probably no higher than someplace like Pennsylvania. The difference between Southern Brazil and the US is that people are German and Italian/Portuguese rather than German and English/Irish.
    , @Marcio
    The mixing in the South ocurred in a more indirect way. Less black and white relationships, but more of the kind "german/ucranian/polish immigrant with Iberian Brazilian, that looks mediterranean white, but it's actually part black and/or native-brazilian".

    Even if you are a neo-nazi type and try to only date your race here in Brazil you'll have a very high probability of marrying someone that it's mix, but you thought was 100% white (I actually think that's hillarious...)

    But the most important think it's that in Brazil race does not equals culture, like in the US. And race is not identity too.

    To be more clear: no one uses the terms German Brazilians, Italian Brazilians, etc... in Portuguese. The main identitiy it's simply Brazilian.

    And City Identity (Sou curitibano!), State Identity (Sou Paranaense!), Region Identity (Sou sulista!) or even, Soccer Team Identity (Talk with a "gremista"to know what I mean...) is stronger than Race Identity here.
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  44. Florianópolis was originally colonized by Portuguese from the Azores islands.

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  45. @ogunsiron
    @cicero:
    I took a look at the agents from Florianopolis and was expecting a bunch of Germans but they were morely White/Whiteish but Portuguese. That surprised me because I always thought of that place as one of those "german towns" of southern Brazil. Maybe I should try Blumenau :)

    Edit : I just tried Blumenau and it's much more German and even the Italians and Portuguese look germanised.


    Re: white Brazilians people not being totally White
    I'm aware of Razib's very interesting observations on the looks of people who come from a mixed background that's multi-generational. When dealing with Brazilians, I don't assume that a very dark skinned or even very african looking person is purely african. Just the same, I don't assume that a totally white looking person is actually totally white. Does that reality pertain to the whole of Brazil ? Are there regions like the extreme south where there has not been much racial mixing and where appearance correlates very well with actual racial mix ?

    Florianopolis is located along the coast where Portuguese predominate (it is also a pretty big city and the state capital so the population is naturally going to be more cosmopolitan in nature). Germans tended to colonize inland where there was better farmland just like they did in North America. The amount of race mixing in Southern Brazil is probably no higher than someplace like Pennsylvania. The difference between Southern Brazil and the US is that people are German and Italian/Portuguese rather than German and English/Irish.

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  46. @Dave Pinsen
    I guess it depends on the part of the country. There are parts of southern Brazil where Japanese, German, and Italian ethnics seem to have pretty much kept culturally and ethnically separate. See, for example, the ethnic German Brazilian basketball player Tiago Splitter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiago_Splitter , or the model Ana Cláudia Michels http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Cl%C3%A1udia_Michels

    I don't think either of them has non-European ancestry, and I think that's true of most folks from their hometown of Joinville.

    That’s not really true. I’m from the South of Brazil myself, my hometown is Curitiba, I should know, trust me. Most people in Curitiba have Ucranian, Polish or German ancestry. But most of them are mixed with Brazilians with Iberian ancestry (like me). And most Brazilians with Iberian ancestry tend to be mixed even if they are socially 100% white.

    We do have a lot of “folklore”groups and clubs keeping the traditions of the immigrants but everything it’s pretty open to anyone and people mix and intermingle a lot. It’s pretty much the same in the States bellow. My brother (who’s darker than me) lives for two years in Joinville – it’s a very “german influenced” town, for sure but they are in NO WAY “culturally and ethnically separated”.

    What happens is that the immigrant group that it’s a majority in a city in Brazil tend to give a special “flavour” to that city that reaches all the people in the city. So, in the case of Curitiba, German food is very common as snacks in pubs (and the most famous pub in the city is the “Bar do Alemão”- The German Bar”) and Pierogi (Polish dish) it’s a very common and traditional food here, alongside typical Brazilian stuff (Pão-de-queijo, coxinha, etc…)

    Trust me they are not. What happens in the USA (I’ve lived 6 years in the US), where people get in ethnic enclaves simply doesn’t happen here – the segregation here is by class, not race or ancestry.

    Even the japanese, that used to be more closed, are pretty integrated nowadays. To the point that a “common sense”myth in California (white woman don’t like asian man) is proven totally untrue here in Brazil: it’s VERY common for men with japanese ancestry to marry women that are white.

    I’m not saying that a blonde girl from a traditional German family won’t have problems marrying a black dude, for example. But in Brazilian context, the Blonde Brazilian with German Ancestry, Darker Brazilian with the Iberian acnestry and even the “Moreno Claro” (Light Brown) are basically considered the same: branco. And all of that takes a back seat to social class.

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  47. @ogunsiron
    @cicero:
    I took a look at the agents from Florianopolis and was expecting a bunch of Germans but they were morely White/Whiteish but Portuguese. That surprised me because I always thought of that place as one of those "german towns" of southern Brazil. Maybe I should try Blumenau :)

    Edit : I just tried Blumenau and it's much more German and even the Italians and Portuguese look germanised.


    Re: white Brazilians people not being totally White
    I'm aware of Razib's very interesting observations on the looks of people who come from a mixed background that's multi-generational. When dealing with Brazilians, I don't assume that a very dark skinned or even very african looking person is purely african. Just the same, I don't assume that a totally white looking person is actually totally white. Does that reality pertain to the whole of Brazil ? Are there regions like the extreme south where there has not been much racial mixing and where appearance correlates very well with actual racial mix ?

    The mixing in the South ocurred in a more indirect way. Less black and white relationships, but more of the kind “german/ucranian/polish immigrant with Iberian Brazilian, that looks mediterranean white, but it’s actually part black and/or native-brazilian”.

    Even if you are a neo-nazi type and try to only date your race here in Brazil you’ll have a very high probability of marrying someone that it’s mix, but you thought was 100% white (I actually think that’s hillarious…)

    But the most important think it’s that in Brazil race does not equals culture, like in the US. And race is not identity too.

    To be more clear: no one uses the terms German Brazilians, Italian Brazilians, etc… in Portuguese. The main identitiy it’s simply Brazilian.

    And City Identity (Sou curitibano!), State Identity (Sou Paranaense!), Region Identity (Sou sulista!) or even, Soccer Team Identity (Talk with a “gremista”to know what I mean…) is stronger than Race Identity here.

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  48. @iSteveFan
    To get a sense of national patterns the authors report that a 2008 survey indicated that of Brazilians 48.4% identified as white, 43.8% as brown, 6.8% as black, 0.6% as yellow, and 0.3% indigenous.

    I am assuming by 43.8% brown, they mean mostly white/black mixture. In the USA blacks makeup about 13%. If we broke down race stats like they do in Brazil, the black component would more than likely fall to below 10%. I wonder if this would be better in the long run since it would seem to diminish the power of the Jesse Jacksons of the world. If you had a separate classification for significantly mixed people, it might serve as a means to weaken the KKKrazy clue you often mention.

    “I am assuming by 43.8% brown, they mean mostly white/black mixture. ”

    This is a very polemic topic in Brazil. Lots of people, myself included, don’t think the majority of this 43.8% is black/white, even though the IBGE (the government agency that is responsible for the Census) likes to count this way, after years of pressure from North-American ONGS.

    You have some regions in Brazil where a good amount of people are mixed with native-brazilians (especially North and Center -West), sometimes mixed with white, sometimes with black, a lot of times with both.

    One hint is in our language. In Brazilian portuguese, “caboclo” (a term for mixed race people of white/native-brazilian ancestry) it’s also used for rural people of the country side.
    If most mixed people were black/white, the term used would be “mulato”, not “caboclo”. The use of “caboclo” shows that, at least in some regions, the majority has antive-brazilian ancestry.

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  49. @marcio:
    Don’t know if you will find this funny but I do:
    I’m into the extreme metal subculture and it so happens that a lot of the nazi black metal in the world comes from Brazil. Of course a lot of those guys are fully white or mostly white, but some look like they could be half black or half amerindian , so much hilarity ensues in the worldwide black metal scene because of that. Brazil is one of those places where part whites want to be white.

    I’ve read that in Brazil, fully black (or fully black looking) individuals aren’t considered particularly masculine. Who is seen as stereotypically most manly in Brazil ? White white guys ? Iberian white guys ? Lebanese ? actual mulattoes ?

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    • Replies: @Marcio
    I do find this very funny. I used to be very into metal subculture as a teenager (heavy metal is HUGE in Brazil, just ask Iron Maiden...) and I know the type of guys you're talking about.

    It's especially funny when you're from the South like me - because I'm pretty white for general Brazilian standards, but dark for my Hometown (as I said in the other post, lots of people with Ucranian, Polish and German ancestry here). So when I see a paulista (guy from São Paulo) or carioca (guy from Rio) way darker than me walking aorund with Nazi symbols I have to laugh.

    It's not only in the metal scene. In São Paulo you have a considerable nazi-skinheads (not all skinheads are nazi, it's a sub-culture inside this subculture). There is a joke that they shave their heads to hide their kinky hair.
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  50. RE: Race in Brazil,

    Personal anecdote. My Brazilian plastic surgeon friend is of Italian descent, and quite proud of it. When I made an off-hand observation about many Whites in Brazil having some measure of sub-Saharan ancestry, he told me that he had none. He then produced his 23andMe genome results. No Amerind or sub-Saharan ancestry. According to his genome results, he was completely European.

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    • Replies: @Marcio
    Well, there is some true in the black movement assertion that some Brazilians tend to hide their black/native Brazilian ancestry. Not everyone is very open about being mix like - the fact that people like me are treated 100% as white, reenforces this if they want to hide their ancestry. I

    n my experience this is more common in white Brazilians from Rio, São Paulo and Bahia. It seems to go against the common sense, but I'd say people here in South are less racist than those more multi-racial states.

    This is also more common in people that only know about their white ancestors (because the mixing in their family happened centuries ago and/or between white people with mixed ancestry) so they obviously have a hard time accepting their are not 100% white.

    In my case that wasn't a issue: one of my grandfathers was a very dark mulatto (curiously, with greyish blue eyes) and one of my grandmothers was "cabocla" (white and native-brazilian), so my mixed heritage was very clear to me, even though my parents both look like a typical South Iberian couple.

    About your surgeon friend: it's totally possible that he's 100% European. We got massive european immigration till the 1930s. But my point is that is 100% European by chance. Because so many of those Italian immigrants got married with Brazilians that were white Iberians but actually had a high amount of Native-Brazilian and Sub-saharan ancestry.
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  51. Interesting info on German Brazilians:

    “Between 1937 and 1945 a significant portion of the Brazilian population suffered interference in daily life produced by a “campaign of nationalization”. This population – called “alien” by the Brazilian government – was composed of immigrants and their descendants. Both the Brazilian Empire and the early Republic allowed groups of immigrants to settle in isolated communities, mainly in Southern Brazil, and to some extent in other parts, such as Espírito Santo, in the Southeast. These people had not been assimilated into the majority Brazilian society, a fact that worried the government of President Getúlio Vargas. The army had an important role during this process of forced assimilation of these areas of “foreign colonization” that created so-called “ethnic cysts” in Brazil. German Brazilians saw themselves as part of a pluralist society, so that the Deutschtum conception (of being part of a community with a shared German ancestry) seemed compatible with the fact that they were also Brazilian citizens. However, the Brazilian government only accepted the idea of the jus soli, so that all people born in Brazil should see themselves as Brazilians, and leave other ethnic associations behind. The Brazilian view contrasted with the jus sanguinis conception of most German Brazilians of that time, who were still connected to the ancestral homeland.[53]

    German communities (pink) in Southern Brazil in 1905
    Not only the people of German origin were considered “alien”: almost all descendants of immigrants, in some degree, were “non-assimilated”, in the opinion of Bethlem and other participants in the campaign. However, evidence of greater resistance to abrasileiramento (Brazilianization) was found in those areas considered “redoubts of Germanism”, a situation considered risky to the cultural, racial and territorial integrity of the nation. One of the areas considered “non-patriotic” was the Vale do Itajaí, where the population was composed mostly of Germans, Italians and Poles. In the 1930s, the Vale do Itajaí was described as a place of “strange costumes, full of non-national Brazilians, contaminated by ideals of a nation that collapsed Brazil, a place of disintegration of national spirit”. During this period of nationalization, the Germans were considered the most “alien”, the Italians closest to the Brazilians, and the Poles in an intermediary position, but none of them were seen as unequivocally Brazilian.[54] The fear of secession was not a novelty in regard to the definition of the Brazilian nation-state: long before 1939, Brazilian nationalists feared the collapse of the South, considering it “too Germanized”. Many members of the Brazilian army participated during this process, such as Nogueira:

    “ As we can see, the German colonization has deep roots, has developed across the south of Brazil and would have terrifying aspects if the appropriate measures were not adopted, aimed at defending the interests of the sacred homeland and cut any and all possibility of disintegration of our territory” (Nogueira 1947:18).[55] ”
    Nogueira also compared the German Brazilians to “an octopus extending its tentacles” in Southern Brazil. Nogueira used the image of the occupation of the most fertile areas of southern territory by foreigners, who had no intention of being integrated into the country, but had remained segregated since the beginning of their settlement. The record of the first impressions about the city of Blumenau in his book received the subtitle of “One Weird City”, arguing that “the German language is spoken without constraints, including in public offices”. Silvio Romero (1906) compared German immigration to the Barbarian Invasions which brought about the end of the Roman Empire. Writings by different authors against the German settlement in Brazil displayed clear xenophobia against the so-called “German threat”. The Portuguese language was presented as a fundamental criterion of nationality and this justified the nationalization of education and the closing of ethnic schools. Most German Brazilians could barely speak Portuguese, and when German was prohibited in the country, they faced many difficulties due to this language barrier.

    From this perspective, the human element representative of the “more legitimate” national formation had the task of conforming immigrants and their descendants to the myth of the amalgam of the three races that makes up the Brazilian nation (Europeans, Black Africans and Amerindians).”

    (WIKIPEDIA)

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  52. Key observation from Razib about the persistence of race:

    “The main argument of the paper, which is in line with that of a long line of papers coming out of Brazil over the past ten years, is that assortative mating over the past 300 years has maintained phenotypic races, despite ancestral admixture. In other words, the physical difference between the color categories is much clearer than their ancestral quanta. Why? Because skin color, and perhaps traits like hair curl and nose form, as controlled by a small number of genes. In the case of skin color most of the variance is accounted for by less than half a dozen genes! We all know that among mixed-race siblings some individuals will resemble one race much more than the other, despite similar ancestral quanta. Rashida Jones regularly “passes” for white for her television roles, while her sister Kidada looks a bit more African American. As long as humans fix upon salient characteristics the “post-racial” idea is probably a delusion of idealism.”

    (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/02/brazilians-more-european-than-not/#.U78sC5RdWHh)

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  53. The two Brazilians Dave Pinsen posted actually have a tiny bit of an “ethnic” look if you ask me.

    But Marcio is right, of course, you really can’t go by physical appearance to determine ancestry mixture %’s in mixed race people. (Not to mention he is actually from Brazil and knows what he is talking about.)

    The Nordic-appearing female MMA champion Rhonda Rousey has a black grandparent. No one would be able to guess that based on her appearance.

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  54. Key figure in shaping Brazilian thinking regarding race and the nation:

    Gilberto de Mello Freyre (March 15, 1900 – July 18, 1987) was a Brazilian sociologist, anthropologist, historian, writer, painter, journalist and congressman, born in Recife, Northeast Brazil. He is commonly associated with other great Brazilian cultural interpreters of the first half of the 20th century, such as Sérgio Buarque de Holanda and Caio Prado Júnior. His best-known work is a sociological treatise named Casa-Grande & Senzala (variously translated, but roughly The Masters and the Slaves, as on a traditional plantation). Two sequels followed, The Mansions and the Shanties: the making of modern Brazil and Order and Progress: Brazil from monarchy to republic. The trilogy is generally considered a classic of modern cultural anthropology and social history, although it is not without its critics.

    Like other Latin-American intellectuals, Freyre had an internationalist and precocious academic career, having studied at Baylor University, Texas from the age of eighteen and then at Columbia University, where he got his master’s degree under the tutelage of William Shepperd.[1] At Columbia Freyre was a student of the anthropologist Franz Boas.[2] After coming back to Recife in 1923, Freyre spearheaded a handful of writers of the so-called Regionalista Movement. After working extensively as a journalist, he was made Head of Cabinet of the Governor of the State of Pernambuco, Estácio Coimbra. With the 1930 revolution and the rise of Getúlio Vargas, both Coimbra and Freyre went into exile. Freyre went first to Portugal and then to the US, where he worked as Visiting Professor at Stanford.[3] By 1932, Freyre had returned to Brazil. In 1933, Freyre’s best-known work, The Masters and the Slaves was published and was well received. In 1946, Freyre was elected to the federal Congress.[4] At various times, Freyre also served as director of the newspapers A Província and Diario de Pernambuco.[5]

    In 1962, Freyre was awarded the Prêmio Machado de Assis of the Academia Brasileira de Letras (Brazilian Academy of Letters), one of the most prestigious awards in the field of Brazilian literature.[6] Over the course of his long career, Freyre received numerous other awards, honorary degrees, and other honors both in Brazil and internationally. Examples include admission to L`ordre des Arts et Lettres (France), investiture as Grand Officier de La Légion d’Honneur (France), investiture as Knight Commander of the British Empire (Great Britain), the Gran-Cruz of the Ordem do Infante Dom Henrique (Portugal), and honorary doctorates at Columbia University and the Sorbonne.[7]

    Freyre’s most widely known work is The Masters and the Slaves (Casa-Grande & Senzala, 1933). This is a revolutionary work for the study of races and cultures in Brazil, written in a quite personal and impressionistic tone. The book is a turning point in the analysis of the black heritage in Brazil, which is highly extolled by Freyre. His effort both to rehabilitate the black culture and identify Brazil as a conciliatory country is comparable to the ones of other Latin American writers, such as Fernando Ortiz in Cuba (Contrapunteo Cubano de Tobacco y Azúcar, 1940), and José Vasconcelos in Mexico (La Raza Cosmica, 1926).

    The Masters and the Slaves is the first of a series of three books, that included The Mansions and the Shanties (1938) and Order and Progress (1957). Other very important contributions of Freyre were Northeast (Nordeste) and The English in Brazil (1948).

    The actions of Freyre as a public intellectual are rather controversial. Labeled as a communist in the 1930s, he later moved to the political Right. He supported Portugal’s Salazar government in the 1950s, and after 1964 he defended the military dictatorship of Brazil’s Humberto Castelo Branco. Freyre is considered to be the “father” of lusotropicalism: the theory whereby miscegenation had been a positive force in Brazil. “Miscegenation” at that time tended to be viewed in a negative way, as in the theories of Eugen Fischer and Charles Davenport.[8]

    Freyre was also recognised by his literary style. His poem “Bahia of all saints and of almost all sins” provoked Manuel Bandeira’s enthusiasm. Freyre wrote this long poem inspired by his first visit to Salvador. Manuel Bandeira wrote about it in June 1927: “Your poem, Gilberto, will be an eternal source of jealousy to me”(cf. Manuel Bandeira, Poesia e Prosa. Rio de Janeiro: Aguilar, 1958, v. II: Prose, p. 1398).[9]

    Freyre died on July 18, 1987 in Recife.”

    (WIKIPEDIA)

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  55. @ogunsiron
    @marcio:
    Don't know if you will find this funny but I do:
    I'm into the extreme metal subculture and it so happens that a lot of the nazi black metal in the world comes from Brazil. Of course a lot of those guys are fully white or mostly white, but some look like they could be half black or half amerindian , so much hilarity ensues in the worldwide black metal scene because of that. Brazil is one of those places where part whites want to be white.

    I've read that in Brazil, fully black (or fully black looking) individuals aren't considered particularly masculine. Who is seen as stereotypically most manly in Brazil ? White white guys ? Iberian white guys ? Lebanese ? actual mulattoes ?

    I do find this very funny. I used to be very into metal subculture as a teenager (heavy metal is HUGE in Brazil, just ask Iron Maiden…) and I know the type of guys you’re talking about.

    It’s especially funny when you’re from the South like me – because I’m pretty white for general Brazilian standards, but dark for my Hometown (as I said in the other post, lots of people with Ucranian, Polish and German ancestry here). So when I see a paulista (guy from São Paulo) or carioca (guy from Rio) way darker than me walking aorund with Nazi symbols I have to laugh.

    It’s not only in the metal scene. In São Paulo you have a considerable nazi-skinheads (not all skinheads are nazi, it’s a sub-culture inside this subculture). There is a joke that they shave their heads to hide their kinky hair.

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  56. @syonredux
    RE: Race in Brazil,

    Personal anecdote. My Brazilian plastic surgeon friend is of Italian descent, and quite proud of it. When I made an off-hand observation about many Whites in Brazil having some measure of sub-Saharan ancestry, he told me that he had none. He then produced his 23andMe genome results. No Amerind or sub-Saharan ancestry. According to his genome results, he was completely European.

    Well, there is some true in the black movement assertion that some Brazilians tend to hide their black/native Brazilian ancestry. Not everyone is very open about being mix like – the fact that people like me are treated 100% as white, reenforces this if they want to hide their ancestry. I

    n my experience this is more common in white Brazilians from Rio, São Paulo and Bahia. It seems to go against the common sense, but I’d say people here in South are less racist than those more multi-racial states.

    This is also more common in people that only know about their white ancestors (because the mixing in their family happened centuries ago and/or between white people with mixed ancestry) so they obviously have a hard time accepting their are not 100% white.

    In my case that wasn’t a issue: one of my grandfathers was a very dark mulatto (curiously, with greyish blue eyes) and one of my grandmothers was “cabocla” (white and native-brazilian), so my mixed heritage was very clear to me, even though my parents both look like a typical South Iberian couple.

    About your surgeon friend: it’s totally possible that he’s 100% European. We got massive european immigration till the 1930s. But my point is that is 100% European by chance. Because so many of those Italian immigrants got married with Brazilians that were white Iberians but actually had a high amount of Native-Brazilian and Sub-saharan ancestry.

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  57. Speaking of genetics, another White person goes on “The Trisha Goddard Show” takes a DNA test and also finds out she has Sub Saharan African admixture.

    I think Steve Sailer should write an article about his theory on why every White person who goes on her show and takes a DNA test ALWAYS ends up having some Black ancestry.

    Is it just pure coincidence or are the DNA results rigged ?

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  58. On the topic of Brazilian achievement, as a nation they have no doubt punched below their weight, but I think a few factors were at work there. The Portuguese Kings banned printing presses and all forms of higher education in Brazil until the Royal Family fled there during the Napoleonic Wars. Even the White elites were mostly illiterate (which made it harder for them to revolt). The few natives with a more rounded education either received it in Portugal proper or from the Jesuits (who were purged in the 1770′s).

    That Brazil was literally centuries behind the rest of the Americas, to say nothing of Europe, until they were forced by the monarchy to become civilized in a single generation left an indelible mark on the character of the nation and its burgeoning intelligentsia, one that could be described as somewhat bipolar. On the one hand they were still extremely provincial and contemptuous of foreigners, but in order to keep up with the foreigners they often adopted the most extreme political and and philosophical ideas to modernize their institutions. The result was a lot of posturing by the educated classes, matched by some significant output in the arts and sciences, but often marred by a lot of wasted effort and dead ends.

    As for significant Brazilians of intellectual ability, I can think of a few:

    Carlos Chagas, to quote wiki:

    Chagas’ work holds a unique place in the history of medicine. Working in primitive conditions, Chagas described in detail a previously unknown infectious disease: its pathogen, vector (Triatominae), host, clinical manifestations and epidemiology. Chagas was also the first to discover and illustrate the parasitic fungal genus Pneumocystis, later infamous for being linked to PCP (Pneumocystis pneumonia in AIDS victims).

    César Lattes, discover of the pion.

    Oswaldo Cruz, the founder of the modern public health system in Brazil.

    Mário Schenberg, who was a major theorist on the process of how stars go supernova.

    Milton Santos, a prominent and award-winning geographer who contributed to the theory of urban development and planning.

    There are hundreds of other examples past and present as well. None of these men won Noble Prizes, but they were legitimate scientists who did much to expand human knowledge. The problem with Brazil is not that it is mediocre per say, it has produced plenty of capable and productive scholars for the world, rather it has not yet produced even one truly revolutionary intellectual figure. No Newton, no Jefferson, no Archimedes, no Virgil or Cervantes. Not one person who is an eternal household name in the pantheon of World Civilization. It is the perpetual B student of the class, not one bit less but certainly not one bit more. And this, when combined with the Brazilian national ego that compels it time and again to try and match the great nations piece for piece, achievement for achievement has caused its citizens no shortage of agony. Which is why earlier this week you had a country of nearly 200 million people experience a nervous breakdown after their soccer team was routed in the World Cup semi-finals.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/09/brazil-scarred-for-life-world-cup-fred-hulk-willian

    I think that covers it.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The Portuguese Kings banned printing presses"

    Wow, I did not know that. Charles C. Mann points out in "1493" that Imperial Spain managed to keep a printing press operating on Guam on the other side of the world for hundreds of years, which is impressive.

    , @HalfBrazilian
    "As for significant Brazilians of intellectual ability, I can think of a few: . . ."

    What, no mention of Santos Dumont?
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  59. @Cicero
    On the topic of Brazilian achievement, as a nation they have no doubt punched below their weight, but I think a few factors were at work there. The Portuguese Kings banned printing presses and all forms of higher education in Brazil until the Royal Family fled there during the Napoleonic Wars. Even the White elites were mostly illiterate (which made it harder for them to revolt). The few natives with a more rounded education either received it in Portugal proper or from the Jesuits (who were purged in the 1770's).

    That Brazil was literally centuries behind the rest of the Americas, to say nothing of Europe, until they were forced by the monarchy to become civilized in a single generation left an indelible mark on the character of the nation and its burgeoning intelligentsia, one that could be described as somewhat bipolar. On the one hand they were still extremely provincial and contemptuous of foreigners, but in order to keep up with the foreigners they often adopted the most extreme political and and philosophical ideas to modernize their institutions. The result was a lot of posturing by the educated classes, matched by some significant output in the arts and sciences, but often marred by a lot of wasted effort and dead ends.

    As for significant Brazilians of intellectual ability, I can think of a few:

    Carlos Chagas, to quote wiki:

    Chagas' work holds a unique place in the history of medicine. Working in primitive conditions, Chagas described in detail a previously unknown infectious disease: its pathogen, vector (Triatominae), host, clinical manifestations and epidemiology. Chagas was also the first to discover and illustrate the parasitic fungal genus Pneumocystis, later infamous for being linked to PCP (Pneumocystis pneumonia in AIDS victims).

    César Lattes, discover of the pion.

    Oswaldo Cruz, the founder of the modern public health system in Brazil.

    Mário Schenberg, who was a major theorist on the process of how stars go supernova.

    Milton Santos, a prominent and award-winning geographer who contributed to the theory of urban development and planning.

    There are hundreds of other examples past and present as well. None of these men won Noble Prizes, but they were legitimate scientists who did much to expand human knowledge. The problem with Brazil is not that it is mediocre per say, it has produced plenty of capable and productive scholars for the world, rather it has not yet produced even one truly revolutionary intellectual figure. No Newton, no Jefferson, no Archimedes, no Virgil or Cervantes. Not one person who is an eternal household name in the pantheon of World Civilization. It is the perpetual B student of the class, not one bit less but certainly not one bit more. And this, when combined with the Brazilian national ego that compels it time and again to try and match the great nations piece for piece, achievement for achievement has caused its citizens no shortage of agony. Which is why earlier this week you had a country of nearly 200 million people experience a nervous breakdown after their soccer team was routed in the World Cup semi-finals.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/09/brazil-scarred-for-life-world-cup-fred-hulk-willian

    I think that covers it.

    “The Portuguese Kings banned printing presses”

    Wow, I did not know that. Charles C. Mann points out in “1493″ that Imperial Spain managed to keep a printing press operating on Guam on the other side of the world for hundreds of years, which is impressive.

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  60. “The two Brazilians Dave Pinsen posted actually have a tiny bit of an “ethnic” look if you ask me.”

    I don’t think they look “ethnic” at all. They would easily be seen as White in The United States. I am seen as White in the U.S and I am darker than than those 2 since I have typical Sicilian pigmentation.

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  61. “Well, there is some true in the black movement assertion that some Brazilians tend to hide their black/native Brazilian ancestry. Not everyone is very open about being mix like – the fact that people like me are treated 100% as white”

    I remember you said that you have the phenotype of a typical Southern European person, if that is the case than no wonder most Brazilians think you are White. How would most Brazilians know that you are racially mixed just by looking at you if you do not have the stereotypical Brazilian Pardo phenotype ?

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  62. Razib speculates on racial politics and genome sampling in Brazil:

    “Finally, a lot of these authors in these papers coming out of Brazil seem rather political when it comes to genomics, race, etc. I have no knowledge of the detailed back story, and I don’t believe that anything but conspiratorial manipulation could result in the consistent pattern in the data. But, in a heterogeneous population there’s always going to be worries about representativeness. From what little I know an awful lot of Brazilians are like Gisele Bündchen, the grandchildren or great-grandchildren of European immigrants. If so, they shouldn’t have any non-European ancestry. So I do wonder if there’s some conscious or unconscious undersampling going on because the researchers want to promote the idea of a racially admixed population.”

    ((http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/02/brazilians-more-european-than-not/#.U78sC5RdWHh))

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  63. Marcio:”About your surgeon friend: it’s totally possible that he’s 100% European.”

    the 23andMe result says that he is; I have no reason to doubt the results.

    Marcio:” We got massive european immigration till the 1930s. But my point is that is 100% European by chance. Because so many of those Italian immigrants got married with Brazilians that were white Iberians but actually had a high amount of Native-Brazilian and Sub-saharan ancestry.”

    I would be interested in seeing a study that just sampled the DNA of German and Italian Brazilians. My friend tells me that he knew many families growing up that married within the Italian community.

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  64. RE: Printing in the New World,

    Date at which printing presses were first set up. Dates come from WIKIPEDIA, so the usual caveats apply.

    Brazil: 1808

    Chile: 1776

    Venezuela : 1808

    Argentina: 1780

    Mexico: 1539

    Cuba: 1707

    Some comparative dates from Anglo America:

    Massachusetts: Colony founded in 1630. Printing press set up in 1638.

    Pennsylvania: settled in 1681. Printing press set up in 1685.

    Interestingly, when compared to the North, the southern colonies show a lag:

    Virginia: settled in 1607. Printing starts in 1682.

    Maryland: Settled in 1632. printing starts in 1686.

    In Anglo America we can see a definite North-South lag, with printing coming early in the North (8 years after the founding in Massachusetts, 4 years after the founding in PA), but late in the South (75 years after the founding in Virginia, 54 years in Maryland). In the case of Virginia, it was a matter of deliberate policy. The Anglican elite in Virginia was quite suspicious of anything that might serve to educate the broad masses. Cf the words of Virginia governor William Berkeley: “[T]here are no free schools nor printing , and I hope we shall not have these [for a] hundred years;for learning has brought disobedience, and heresy, and sects into the world, and printing has divulged them, and libels against the best government. God keep us from both!”

    In terms of Latin America, I’m not sure about the precise nature of the forces that brought printing to Mexico City in 1539, but not to Cuba until 1707 (White settlement in Cuba began in 1511; hence, the printing lag was 196 years).

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  65. Jefferson,
    I didn’t say they didn’t look white. My point was that even going by appearance, one could detect a whiff of admixture. Or more than a whiff, kind of like Sicilians.

    One thing to consider is that in the US, where frequent racial mixing is a more recent phenomenon, most people are only familiar with first-generational mixed race people. They tend not to be aware that when, say, a biracial black/white individual and a white individual have children, the kids frequently lose all visible trace of black ancestry and look just like any other white kids. I would imagine amerindian ancestry (common in Brazil) would “dissolve” visually even more completely.

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  66. “I didn’t say they didn’t look white. My point was that even going by appearance, one could detect a whiff of admixture. Or more than a whiff, kind of like Sicilians.”

    You would definitely be in the minority. The vast majority of Americans would not be able to “detect” Nonwhite admixture in blond haired and blue eyed Tiago Splitter and Ana Claudia Michels. Tiago Splitter and Ana Claudia Michels do not even look like typical Southern Europeans, let alone look like a Quadroon/Ocotoroon. They have typical Germanic pigmentation. They do not even have dark brown hair/black hair and brown eyes like Tony Danza for example.http://img004.lazygirls.info/people/ana_claudia_michels/ana_claudia_michels_cia_maritima_ss_2013_rctmn66.sized.jpg

    You are letting geography cloud your judgement. You think that because a lot of race mixing went on in Brasil, that means every Brazilian must have a Mixed Race looking phenotype.

    You would probably say that even Gisele Bundchen has visible Sub Saharan African features and would look like a Quadroon/Octoroon to you. If you saw Brazil’s coach Felipe Scolari, you would probably say he looks Mixed Race as well.

    You are are seeing invisible Sub Saharan African features that are not there.

    Ana Claudia Michels shares a resemblance to a younger Olivia Newton John. So I doubt she would be mistaken for anything but a Branca in The United States.

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  67. @Cicero
    On the topic of Brazilian achievement, as a nation they have no doubt punched below their weight, but I think a few factors were at work there. The Portuguese Kings banned printing presses and all forms of higher education in Brazil until the Royal Family fled there during the Napoleonic Wars. Even the White elites were mostly illiterate (which made it harder for them to revolt). The few natives with a more rounded education either received it in Portugal proper or from the Jesuits (who were purged in the 1770's).

    That Brazil was literally centuries behind the rest of the Americas, to say nothing of Europe, until they were forced by the monarchy to become civilized in a single generation left an indelible mark on the character of the nation and its burgeoning intelligentsia, one that could be described as somewhat bipolar. On the one hand they were still extremely provincial and contemptuous of foreigners, but in order to keep up with the foreigners they often adopted the most extreme political and and philosophical ideas to modernize their institutions. The result was a lot of posturing by the educated classes, matched by some significant output in the arts and sciences, but often marred by a lot of wasted effort and dead ends.

    As for significant Brazilians of intellectual ability, I can think of a few:

    Carlos Chagas, to quote wiki:

    Chagas' work holds a unique place in the history of medicine. Working in primitive conditions, Chagas described in detail a previously unknown infectious disease: its pathogen, vector (Triatominae), host, clinical manifestations and epidemiology. Chagas was also the first to discover and illustrate the parasitic fungal genus Pneumocystis, later infamous for being linked to PCP (Pneumocystis pneumonia in AIDS victims).

    César Lattes, discover of the pion.

    Oswaldo Cruz, the founder of the modern public health system in Brazil.

    Mário Schenberg, who was a major theorist on the process of how stars go supernova.

    Milton Santos, a prominent and award-winning geographer who contributed to the theory of urban development and planning.

    There are hundreds of other examples past and present as well. None of these men won Noble Prizes, but they were legitimate scientists who did much to expand human knowledge. The problem with Brazil is not that it is mediocre per say, it has produced plenty of capable and productive scholars for the world, rather it has not yet produced even one truly revolutionary intellectual figure. No Newton, no Jefferson, no Archimedes, no Virgil or Cervantes. Not one person who is an eternal household name in the pantheon of World Civilization. It is the perpetual B student of the class, not one bit less but certainly not one bit more. And this, when combined with the Brazilian national ego that compels it time and again to try and match the great nations piece for piece, achievement for achievement has caused its citizens no shortage of agony. Which is why earlier this week you had a country of nearly 200 million people experience a nervous breakdown after their soccer team was routed in the World Cup semi-finals.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/09/brazil-scarred-for-life-world-cup-fred-hulk-willian

    I think that covers it.

    “As for significant Brazilians of intellectual ability, I can think of a few: . . .”

    What, no mention of Santos Dumont?

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