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Geneticist David Reich Wields Occam's Battle-Axe
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As I’ve been pointing out for years, recent genomic breakthroughs have, on the whole, done more to validate old, politically incorrect scientific theories than the newer politically correct conventional wisdom about everything is Socially Constructed.

One obvious example is Ancient DNA research, as practiced by David Reich, Svante Paabo, and the like, where 19th Century ideas like, yes, the Aryans really did invade India, are often being upheld by scanning the DNA found in ancient skeletons that have been (more or less) grave-robbed.

Now the New York Times Magazine attempts to strike back against the new science with a massive chin-stroking article about how it’s All Very Complicated (which no doubt it is):

Is Ancient DNA Research Revealing New Truths — or Falling Into Old Traps?

Geneticists have begun using old bones to make sweeping claims about the distant past. But their revisions to the human story are making some scholars of prehistory uneasy.

By Gideon Lewis-Kraus, Jan. 17, 2019

… In 1967, the molecular biologist Allan Wilson at the University of California, Berkeley, along with one of his students, Vincent Sarich,

I knew Vince, a great guy.

demonstrated that evolutionary relationships between species could be determined not only from fossils but also, via a quantitative analysis of blood proteins, from living specimens. Humans and apes, Wilson found, diverged only five million years ago — far more recently than previously believed.

Within the decade, researchers trained in the discipline of population genetics would get in on the historical act. Every contemporary genome is a mosaic of individual tiles passed along from thousands of ancestors; each of us thus contains not only our “own” ancestry but those of multitudes. With each new generation, random mutations, like misspellings, are introduced into a population; some of these will disappear over time, but others will increase in frequency until they are common enough to become a statistically significant part of a population’s genetic signature. If two populations have been distinct for a long time — that is, if people from one don’t tend to mate with people from the other — they will share fewer of these mutations; if they encountered each other and were fruitful, their mutation frequencies will overlap. These insights could be made relevant to prehistorians insofar as they could demonstrate that modern human populations were forged in the mixture of ancient ones. It was still mostly impossible, though, to conclude anything about when these groups might have mixed, or where, or how.

The answers to those questions required not just contemporary genetic data but actual prehistoric DNA. The idea that it might be preserved in old specimens has been around since 1984, when Wilson announced that his lab had extracted DNA from the salted skin of a quagga, an extinct equine species with the head of a zebra and the haunches of a donkey. The further possibilities suggested by ancient DNA were awarded a special place in the public imagination by the 1993 release of Steven Spielberg’s “Jurassic Park.” …

Over the past few years, a growing cohort of scientists has at last produced a fantastic answer. Ancient DNA, they believe, not only allows us to cut through what scholars once wrote off as “wrapped in a thick fog” of “heathendom.” It promises nothing less than what the Harvard geneticist David Reich has called “the genome revolution in the study of the human past.”

3. The Revisionist
David Reich’s lab is folded into a corner of a glassy, long-corridored labyrinth at Harvard Medical School. …

In his recent book, Reich ranks the “ancient-DNA revolution” with the invention of the microscope. Ancient DNA, his research suggests, can explain with more certainty and detail than any previous technique the course of human evolution, history and identity — as he puts it in the book’s title, “Who We Are and How We Got Here.”

I wrote three Taki’s Magazine essays on Reich’s book last spring:

Reich’s Laboratory

A Pair of Giants

Ghosts of Africa

The NYT Mag continues:

… Reich inherited from his parents a humanistic bent: His mother, Tova, is a novelist of some renown; his father, Walter, is a psychiatrist who was the first director of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington.

Tova’s comic novel My Holocaust fictionalizes David’s dad’s travails with more ethnocentric donors to his Holocaust museum.

… After abandoning medical school at Harvard for a postdoc at M.I.T., Reich returned to Harvard to establish his own medical-genetics lab. His chief interest lay in the effort to design novel statistical approaches to better explain how populations were related to one another. He showed, for example, on the basis of contemporary genetic data, that modern Indians are in fact a product of two highly distinct groups, one that had been on the subcontinent for thousands of years and another that formed more recently.

I.e., the Aryan invaders (e.g., Zarathustra) who fascinated Schopenhauer and Nietzsche:

He got his first opportunity to study ancient DNA when Svante Paabo — a Swedish geneticist who had worked with Wilson

Paabo, who will likely win a Nobel Prize eventually, is the secret biological son of 1982 Nobel Laureate Sune Bergstrom, obviously disproving all this hereditarian nonsense.

— enlisted Reich in his efforts, based out of a lab in Leipzig, to sequence the entirety of the Neanderthal genome. Reich’s analysis helped demonstrate that most living humans, with the general exception of sub-Saharan Africans, have some Neanderthal ancestry.

… So in 2013, Reich, along with a veteran of Paabo’s lab and a longtime mathematician collaborator

Nick Patterson

, retooled his shop at Harvard Medical School as one of the country’s first dedicated ancient-DNA labs….

Reich believes he has proved, to the contrary, that human history is marked not by stasis and purity but by movement and cross-pollination. People who live in a place today often bear no genetic resemblance to people who lived there thousands of years ago, so the idea that something in your blood makes you meaningfully Spanish is absurd.

After all, what is fifty or a hundred generations? Enough time to evolve traits useful in your environment, such as lactose tolerance, but who is counting?

Paabo had shown that early humans mated with Neanderthals, but that was only one small part of the swirling “admixture” that characterized human interbreeding. …

Ancient DNA’s “big bang,” as more than one geneticist described it to me, came with the 2015 publication, in Nature, of a Reich paper called “Massive Migration From the Steppe Was a Source for Indo-European Languages in Europe.” On the basis of genetic information culled from 69 ancient individuals dug up by collaborating archaeologists in Scandinavia, Western Europe and Russia, the paper argued that Europeans aren’t quite who they thought they were. About 5,000 years ago, a “relatively sudden” mass migration of nomadic herders from the east

I.e., Indo-Europeans or Aryans.

— the steppes of eastern Ukraine and southern Russia — swept in and almost entirely replaced the continent’s existing communities of hunter-gatherers and early farmers. These newcomers were known to exploit many of the cutting-edge technologies of the time: the domestication of horses, the wheel and, perhaps most salient, axes and spearheads of copper. (Their corpses sometimes featured cutting-edge wounds.)

The Reich team inferred that the major source of contemporary European ancestry — and probably Indo-European languages as well — was not, in fact, from Europe but from far to the east.

Uhhh, no, the Urheimat of the Aryans appears to be either in Eastern Europe or in Western Asia: Ukraine, Russia, or Kazakhstan. Stalingrad would be not a terrible guess: perhaps crossing the Volga might have been an important achievement in the Aryans breaking out of their homeland to invade either Western Europe or South Asia. (Nietzsche might have liked this speculation of mine as a possible example of “eternal recurrence.”)

With the relatively recent rise of everything we associate with “culture” — technologies like agriculture, metallurgy and eventually writing — much of this continuous “admixture” began to give way, it seemed, to discontinuous episodes better characterized as “replacement” or “turnover.” That is, about 5,000 to 9,000 years ago, human history was, at least in a few crucial places, less about various groups coming together and more about some groups blotting out their neighbors.

Robert E. Howard had a better understanding of ancient history than today’s cultural anthropologists.

This was not only relevant as an eccentricity of prehistoric demography, but broadly consequential for the ongoing study of culture itself — of where new ideas come from and how they proliferate. When we thought of populations as stationary and largely stable, we assumed that whatever evolutionary progress they made, from toolmaking to agriculture, reflected either a native innovation or the incorporation of some adjacent group’s avant-garde practice. Now it seemed as though culture was less about the invention and spread of new ideas and more about the mass movements of particular peoples — and the resulting integration, outcompetition or extermination of the communities they overran. Previously, it was possible to think about prehistory as a kind of grand bazaar. Now the operative metaphor (as multiple science journalists observed) was more like Risk, or even “Game of Thrones.”

… He [Reich] observed that “essentially everybody was surprised.” They were surprised, in part, because archaeologists since the 1960s had been trained never to assume the purity or coherence of a people, a slippery slope to the conclusion that certain peoples came by their advantages “naturally.”

…. Archaeologists, who feel as though they learned this lesson long ago, thus survey the rapid rise of ancient DNA with an overwhelming sense of déjà vu. By once again giving “migration” pride of place in the story of prehistory, paleogenomics has resurrected some old intellectual ghosts.

By the time radiocarbon dating had come of age, in the postcolonial ferment of the 1960s, archaeology was already primed to relinquish its emphasis on narratives of migration. …

This new generation of practitioner agreed that just because similar pots were found in various places didn’t mean they were all made by one homogeneous group of people.

I.e., the Pots Not Peoples orthodoxy of later 20th Century academia: if, say, England of about 4,500 years ago suddenly had an all-new material culture — what old archaeologists called the Battle-Axe Culture but new ones renamed as the Corded Ware Culture in order to discourage heterosexual boys from taking an interest in their field — that must have been because a new interior decorating fad had swept Europe. Heaven forbid that anybody think that a bunch of battle-axe wielding barbarians had conquered England. That would be barbaric!

Instead, archaeologists retreated to a much more modest and fine-comb preoccupation with what they called the “processual”: very particular inquiries into very particular societal dynamics. They paid much closer attention to how individual cultures appeared to change and grow over time and much less attention to how Culture Had Changed — to the fantasy

Uh … the academics whose old theories are being disproved by the new data are the actual fantasists.

that some special key will unlock the secrets of history. This left a big-picture vacuum that paleogenomicists like Reich have been eager to fill.

…The more meaningful division is between two alternate intellectual attitudes: those bewitched by grand historical narratives, who believe that there is something both detailed and definitive to say about the very largest questions, and those who wearily warn that such adventures rarely end well.

Uh … the leftist dogmatists imperialized academia. How did that adventure end?

… But in practice, the paleogenomicists have totally altered the environment in which prehistory is being studied by everyone. The landscape is dominated by four well-funded, well-connected labs, three of which — Paabo’s in Leipzig, along with those of two of his protégés, Reich at Harvard and Johannes Krause, who runs a newer outfit in the small German city Jena — collaborate closely with one another, to the point that some critics accuse them of collusion. The power of these top labs extends to samples, data and even technology: Proprietary chemical reagents let them isolate and enrich ancient samples much more accurately and cost-effectively than other labs can. …

The selective pressure to collaborate with this state-of-the-art oligopoly is extremely strong, not only because of their advantages in funding, speed and operational scale but also because of the relationships they enjoy with the top-tier journals. …

So, part of what is going on is that Reich, Paabo, and a few others have set up a cartel of the best labs (which are much more technically proficient than the next tier of labs) and you have to play ball with them if you want to compete in the big leagues. Lots of good scientists like John Hawks are mad at Reich over his business practices.

There thus reigns, in the world of ancient DNA, an atmosphere of intense suspicion, anxiety and paranoia, among archaeologists and geneticists alike….

… As one ancient-DNA researcher in Turkey put it to me, “Certain geneticists see the rest of world as the 19th-century colonialists saw Africa — as raw-material opportunities and nothing else.” …

It has not gone unnoticed that the stunning, magisterial sweep of genetic revisionism, on the one hand, and a genetic emphasis on radical prehistoric migrations, on the other, bear more than a little in common. Some anthropologists and archaeologists accept this analogy with gallows humor. One told me that I should model this article after the format of the standard Nature paper: “Ancient DNA Reveals Massive Population Turnovers in the Humanities,” she suggested as a title, and proposed this as an abstract: “The aristocratic lab scientists arrived with their superior technology and displaced the pre-existing researchers and their primitive truth-implements and overcomplicated belief systems.”

Others saw less to laugh at. Some archaeologists who had collaborated on the 2015 paper about Indo-European invasions withdrew their names to protest conclusions they saw as echoes of Kossinna — the mass migrations of advanced Indo-Europeans into Central Europe. (Reich got the critics back on board by adding a note, on Page 138 of their paper’s 141-page supplementary materials, that said their work in fact contradicted Kossinna, not because he was wrong about mass migration but on a technicality: The European ancestral homeland had, in fact, been far to the east, near the Caucasus and nowhere near present-day Germany.) The analogue was hard to counter. Geneticists had indeed swept down from their laboratory enclaves to extend their sovereignty over what had always been the terrain of archaeology. And no single individual had as much influence or power as Reich.

Since David is the third person in his nuclear family to become prominent, does that make him the third Reich?

A lot of resentful cultural anthropologists seem to think so.

… Some critics believed that any association with Reich represented a betrayal, too, not only of the ni-Vanuatu but of anyone who believed that culture was as powerful a human determinant as the gene. Shortly before the publication of his book, Reich wrote an Op-Ed in The New York Times in which he warned that the future was likely to demonstrate some meaningful genetic differences among populations and that we needed to be honest about such truths, lest they be abused by racist pseudoscience. He was careful to differentiate the idea of a genetic population from the old idea of race, which he agreed was a social rather than biological fact. But he nonetheless gave comfort to those who maintain that on the deepest of all levels our destiny is written into our genetic signature. It was hard not to see that conviction reflected in the findings of Reich’s papers, which seemed to blithely recapitulate discredited theories of Pacific expansion, making categorical claims not only about four individual skulls but about the shape of human history — claims that were essentially indistinguishable from the racialized notions of the swashbuckling imperial era. …

Gideon Lewis-Kraus is a writer at large for the magazine. His last feature story was about a private-jet dealer.

In answer to the article’s title question — “Is Ancient DNA Research Revealing New Truths — or Falling Into Old Traps?” — ancient DNA science appears to be revealing Old Truths.

 
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  1. iSteve, aren’t you putting yourself at risk of being stripped of all of your committee assignments?

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    iSteve = King Steve, not Steve King.
    , @Mark P Miller
    No. There's blood in the water now. The Restoration will not be denied.
  2. It’s too bad that there was only one good Conan movie.

    • Agree: Travis, South Texas Guy
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce

    Robert E. Howard had a better understanding of ancient history than today’s cultural anthropologists.
     
    Yes, I just hope H.P. Lovecraft didn't have a better understanding of cosmogony.
  3. There was a story like this today on NPR: a census administrator remonstrated long and verbosely about how you just can not attempt to figure out how many citizens and non-citizens we have living in the country, it just can not be done, no matter how temptingly sensible, useful, and germane to the intent of the Founders who required the census it might seem at first, second, and fortieth glance.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    . . . a census administrator remonstrated long and verbosely about how you just can not attempt to figure out how many citizens and non-citizens we have living in the country
    . . .
     
    Did he talk about how they were able to do it when the question was included in the census between 1890-1950?

    I am going to guess "No."
  4. Hi Steve

    Better than anybody faster, faster than anybody better.

    Steve have you seen this Steve Hsu post:
    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2019/01/a-grand-experiment.html

    I noted i would love to see some Steve on iSteve action, but cautioned that ensconced among the witch burner it might be asking a lot of him. He is a bold guy though so I think it is worth you reaching out to him. Perhaps you could drag along your sometimes crazy host and Steve Hsu’s partner in thought crime on the Harvard admissions scandal Ron Unz.

    God bless
    Bob

  5. the future was likely to demonstrate some meaningful genetic differences among populations and that we needed to be honest about such truths, lest they be abused by racist pseudoscience.

    Why can’t we frame it this way: the Chinese are coming, they are truly terrifying in their practices, and they gave CRISPr. We can get out ahead of them now or be their slaves later. No, instead let’s babble about Russia expanding by strategically losing territory.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    You know as well as I do J., we have to prove the Chinese held anti-Jewish pogroms. Then, and only then, will China truly be seeen as a problem.
  6. He was careful to differentiate the idea of a genetic population from the old idea of race, which he agreed was a social rather than biological fact.

    A rose by any other name . . . But if a simple shell game with words is all it takes to placate the scientifically illiterate journalists, then so be it.

    • Replies: @Abe

    But if a simple shell game with words is all it takes
     
    Trump, the carnival barker-esque businessman and hobby politician, is- for all his picayune exaggerations and puffery- still by far the most honest man in Washington, maybe since Washington (and, yes, I know the Federal capital was still in New York City during the great man’s time). The rejected outsider who, when you really stop to think about it, is a purer example of the thing he is tormented for supposedly defiling than any of his normie antagonists, used to be a standard POZ media trope- e,g. the hooker with the heart of gold, the honorable thief, the sexual non-conformist who is still a better pillar of bourgeoisie rectitude than any uptight, secretly-perverted, heart-of-suburban darkness dweller. See SHAPE OF WATER, where the motley crew of mute girl, her fish [email protected] lover, and their assorted gang of misfit friends, is still a purer “family” than white 50’s suburban man and his Stepford wife, is a throwback to this trope.

    Trump is hated because his fun, little lies exposes their big, malice-filled ones. I therefore think we should always call out obvious sophists, goal post-movers, special pleaders and tactical obscurantists (“we may never know what caused the murder rate to spike in 2016 except to say there definitely was no Ferguson Effect”) for what they really are- grifters, con artists, snake oil salesmen and shell game runners.

  7. Speaking of intriguing ancient pseudohistory…

    Have we found Atlantis? The Berbers are involved.

  8. If Reich’s calculations become accepted and true then the Europeans (but not the Jews) will have met their end. I wonder how that is.

  9. The article points out the basic war between Anthropology (now a non-science) and Genetics. The Jewish Times of New York has gone full blast with the complete attack on all Western Science. This is nothing new. This falls in line with their complete Marxist agenda that everyone is equal and is congruent with their Op-Eds and other articles touting complete open borders.

    Anthropology was destroyed by Boas, a crazy German Jew, who took the discipline from a Scientific one to a Cultural Cesspool. Margaret Meade was a disciple of Boas and committed numerous academic frauds including the famous Samoan Research exposed by Anthropologist Freeman from New Zealand. Even a cursory inspection of much of her research will show more academic problems.

    The problem I have is Reich. I don’t trust him. I believe when he was asked about doing DNA research on Jewish bodies found in Israel he was not interested. I wonder why because Jewish Anthropology is some of the best Pseudoscience to be found. He’s afraid of what the results will be and the Ashkenazi Magic Myth that they belong in Palestine.

    • LOL: IHTG
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Franz Boas wasn't such a bad guy. His views were a reasonable corrective to the excessive views of his Galtonian opponents.

    But after his death, his side won too big and squeezed out the other side for a long time.

    , @Flip
    I still think there's something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.
  10. @J.Ross
    There was a story like this today on NPR: a census administrator remonstrated long and verbosely about how you just can not attempt to figure out how many citizens and non-citizens we have living in the country, it just can not be done, no matter how temptingly sensible, useful, and germane to the intent of the Founders who required the census it might seem at first, second, and fortieth glance.

    . . . a census administrator remonstrated long and verbosely about how you just can not attempt to figure out how many citizens and non-citizens we have living in the country
    . . .

    Did he talk about how they were able to do it when the question was included in the census between 1890-1950?

    I am going to guess “No.”

  11. Anthropologists to Geneticists: Let Us Stagnate in Peace!

  12. Mucho props to Steve for the namecheck of Robert E. Howard, best (if only, I believe) writer to come out of Cross Plains, Tex.

    It’s a thing here that mid-to present that science has been about the ‘you’re lying eyes’ argument in regards to earlier theories when it comes to various populations (Gould), and thus large gene sharing groups. But a broader view (if not the truth,per se) is slowly seeping out.

    I have copy REH’s letter to Lovecraft arguing that barbarism was the native state of mankind, but I haven’t unpacked it since my last move. For something of an eccentric, to say the least, he had a few valid ideas. By the way, “Beyond the Black River,” is his best. I urge anyone regardless of their like or dislike of fantasy fiction to give it a read.

  13. what old archaeologists called the Battle-Axe Culture

    I thought that was Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi. Silly me.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    No, that is the culture of People Who Cut Themselves.

    Do not confuse the two.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Dianne Feinstein has a concealed carry license.

    Not that she should, after waving a loaded rifle at a crowd of reporters.
  14. “People who live in a place today often bear no genetic resemblance to people who lived there thousands of years ago, so the idea that something in your blood makes you meaningfully Spanish is absurd.”

    Does David Reich think this idea apply to Israelis? or would that be anudda shoah?

    • Replies: @jfjfkdd
    Well, his lab has worked on Naturians to Copper and Bronze Age Levantines, you can see for yourself.

    btw he and one of his students earlier published on sub-Saharan admixture in Jews (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373)

  15. Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish (I’ve said that before, here, whatever). My father, as a boy, read Price Valiant during the War years – he was stuck (his thoughts) in Sweden as a young boy (Sweden was already effeminate even in 1930′ – Norwegians and Finns know what I’m talkin’ about) wondering how W2 would work out!…whether his father would win or die. I still have his comic books and his war set! even tin soldiers of Napolean’s army! I am inundated with my parents stuff! but..slowly, I’ll get thru bc they got thru life and death. I so miss them. This was the first Christmas without either one of them. I feel sad. I loved my parents. They were so much fun and they loved parties, my friends..they loved conversation, they loved dominating conversation…but they loved each guest, each newcomer into our intense family.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    Now I'm feeling sad.
    , @AKAHorace
    Lagartha,

    my condolences. You will feel better with time. All the best.
    , @Hail

    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish
     
    It is these kinds of things (coincidence though it may be) that make Finns absolutely True Europeans of spirit.

    Say No to naysayers, trolls, linguists, and any narrow-view genetic pedants with stick clasped in hand ready to muddy the waters.

    , @protonic
    "Norwegians and Finns know what I’m talkin’ about"
    I visited both Norway and Sweden last spring to visit relatives. (I am descended from Norwegians and Swedes who emigrated to Canada around 1900) I was struck by the differences between the two countries and that Sweden does seem more effeminate. Although to be fair, my experience in Norway was primarily rural while that of Sweden was more urban and I was only there for a month.
  16. @BigDickNick
    "People who live in a place today often bear no genetic resemblance to people who lived there thousands of years ago, so the idea that something in your blood makes you meaningfully Spanish is absurd."

    Does David Reich think this idea apply to Israelis? or would that be anudda shoah?

    Well, his lab has worked on Naturians to Copper and Bronze Age Levantines, you can see for yourself.

    btw he and one of his students earlier published on sub-Saharan admixture in Jews (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373)

    • Replies: @BigDickNick
    So do you think genetically David Reich is a mix, like he tells every other white person they are, or do you think is 150% ashkenazi?
  17. @jfjfkdd
    Well, his lab has worked on Naturians to Copper and Bronze Age Levantines, you can see for yourself.

    btw he and one of his students earlier published on sub-Saharan admixture in Jews (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373)

    So do you think genetically David Reich is a mix, like he tells every other white person they are, or do you think is 150% ashkenazi?

  18. @Anonymous

    what old archaeologists called the Battle-Axe Culture
     
    I thought that was Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi. Silly me.

    No, that is the culture of People Who Cut Themselves.

    Do not confuse the two.

  19. On the one hand, they would have us get all wet between the legs because ancient humans didn’t stay in one place and did lots of interbreeding (i.e., conquering, killing of men and raping of women).

    On the other hand, I’m supposed to regard the unwillingness of Europeans to stay in one place as The Worst Thing That Has Ever Happened, Ever.

    Well, which is it?

  20. @Lagertha
    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish (I've said that before, here, whatever). My father, as a boy, read Price Valiant during the War years - he was stuck (his thoughts) in Sweden as a young boy (Sweden was already effeminate even in 1930' - Norwegians and Finns know what I'm talkin' about) wondering how W2 would work out!...whether his father would win or die. I still have his comic books and his war set! even tin soldiers of Napolean's army! I am inundated with my parents stuff! but..slowly, I'll get thru bc they got thru life and death. I so miss them. This was the first Christmas without either one of them. I feel sad. I loved my parents. They were so much fun and they loved parties, my friends..they loved conversation, they loved dominating conversation...but they loved each guest, each newcomer into our intense family.

    Now I’m feeling sad.

  21. • Replies: @Hail

    Finally, there is the issue concerning indigenous (and non-indigenous) sensitivities. These are real issues [....] scientists are almost certainly going to discover things that conflict with local oral history [...]

    If scientists do not work with indigenous people, then all that will result in ultimately is a lacuna about the histories of these people. Perhaps the world would be better for that, but I’m skeptical.
     

    One such group is the Basque. They have the highest rate of R1b (Indo-European) in Europe, but also a seemingly legitimate claim to being direct cultural heirs (language) of the 'indigenous' Europeans of pre-IndoEuropean times.

    These two pieces don't exactly fit together.

  22. @Lagertha
    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish (I've said that before, here, whatever). My father, as a boy, read Price Valiant during the War years - he was stuck (his thoughts) in Sweden as a young boy (Sweden was already effeminate even in 1930' - Norwegians and Finns know what I'm talkin' about) wondering how W2 would work out!...whether his father would win or die. I still have his comic books and his war set! even tin soldiers of Napolean's army! I am inundated with my parents stuff! but..slowly, I'll get thru bc they got thru life and death. I so miss them. This was the first Christmas without either one of them. I feel sad. I loved my parents. They were so much fun and they loved parties, my friends..they loved conversation, they loved dominating conversation...but they loved each guest, each newcomer into our intense family.

    Lagartha,

    my condolences. You will feel better with time. All the best.

  23. I thought Reich’s determination to wrap his findings in PBS-style PC platitudes would be enough to keep the thought police at bay. Maybe I was wrong.

  24. Since David is the third person in his nuclear family to become prominent, does that make him the third Reich?

    Reich also means rich.

  25. ancient DNA science appears to be revealing Old Truths

    That might be why I’m finding Reich’s book (reading it now) kinda boring; at every turn I find myself thinking, “Didn’t we already know that?”

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    That might be why I’m finding Reich’s book (reading it now) kinda boring; at every turn I find myself thinking, “Didn’t we already know that?”
     
    Well put. My reaction as well.

    … He [Reich] observed that “essentially everybody was surprised.”
     

    Reich seems to have a big head, and likes to present his work as painting a brand new, paradigm shattering picture. What bunk. He's certainly entitled to be proud of his work, his lab, but he's basically confirming the correctness of a very old picture--granted against the kumbaya, pots-not-people nonsense of leftist/feminist loons who'd managed to hijack anthropology departments from the 60s.

    The English guys had noticed--as apparently several Portuguese had earlier--relationship between Indian and European languages and then guys like William Jones had done detailed study... in the 18th century! Academics had built up the Indo-European language idea, and August Schleicher presented language families as a tree. This is all by the mid-1800s. The archeologists were running around digging up stuff and this strong material change with the Battle Axe culture was well documented. Hey the steppe people invaded and must have brought Indo-languages! Duh.

    And the early Y-chromosome an mtDNA results of 20 years ago had already confirmed this picture, but seriously the basic picture was understood when I was born!

    Serious people--i.e. not leftist feminist academic loons--always knew they weren't running ESL-pottery classes on the Danube 5000 years ago.

  26. @niteranger
    The article points out the basic war between Anthropology (now a non-science) and Genetics. The Jewish Times of New York has gone full blast with the complete attack on all Western Science. This is nothing new. This falls in line with their complete Marxist agenda that everyone is equal and is congruent with their Op-Eds and other articles touting complete open borders.

    Anthropology was destroyed by Boas, a crazy German Jew, who took the discipline from a Scientific one to a Cultural Cesspool. Margaret Meade was a disciple of Boas and committed numerous academic frauds including the famous Samoan Research exposed by Anthropologist Freeman from New Zealand. Even a cursory inspection of much of her research will show more academic problems.

    The problem I have is Reich. I don't trust him. I believe when he was asked about doing DNA research on Jewish bodies found in Israel he was not interested. I wonder why because Jewish Anthropology is some of the best Pseudoscience to be found. He's afraid of what the results will be and the Ashkenazi Magic Myth that they belong in Palestine.

    Franz Boas wasn’t such a bad guy. His views were a reasonable corrective to the excessive views of his Galtonian opponents.

    But after his death, his side won too big and squeezed out the other side for a long time.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Boas may not have been, but his followers have not squeezed their opponents out temporarily, they have permanently removed them from that field. Niteranger is right, anthropology with cultural anthropologists in it is no longer a science at all. At Harvard and Cal Berkeley, the scientific oriented biological anthropologists have formed their own departments independent of the cultural anthropologists.
  27. Paabo, who will likely win a Nobel Prize eventually, is the secret biological son of 1982 Nobel Laureate Sune Bergstrom, obviously disproving all this hereditarian nonsense.

    On the other hand, his legitimate half-brother born the same year is a dance DJ or some other pedestrian job holder. This could be used as evidence for one of the more robust of environmental factors for success, that of losing a parent young.

    A competing genetic factor could be that Paabo’s mother is Estonian, while his brother’s mother (bromo?) is a Swede. (I assume.) Hybrid vigor could be in play.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    A competing genetic factor could be that Paabo’s mother is Estonian, while his brother’s mother (bromo?) is a Swede. (I assume.) Hybrid vigor could be in play.
     
    Or perhaps his mother was just smarter than the mother of his half-brother.
  28. @Anonymous

    what old archaeologists called the Battle-Axe Culture
     
    I thought that was Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi. Silly me.

    Dianne Feinstein has a concealed carry license.

    Not that she should, after waving a loaded rifle at a crowd of reporters.

  29. ancient DNA science appears to be revealing Old Truths.

    The meta-narrative of European Man was known, essentially correctly, by the early-mid 20th century. As far as I can tell, much of Carlton Coon (1904-1981) of Harvard’s work (among many others worldwide working on ‘racial’-anthropology) has been vindicated by the DNA studies. Coon remains relevant, amazing considering the limited tools at his disposal in the 1930s and 1940s.

    Research in Europe was making great progress at the same time, despite the rise of the Boasian fringe. Too bad about the war and all, about the Marxist ‘win’ that forced Boasian cranks on us all and threw the normals into the metaphorical gulag (or perhaps a literal gulag over on the Iron Curtain’s dismal side). I understand leading European anthropologist Hans Guenther (1891-1968)’s books are still illegal in Germany.

  30. Indo-Europeans or Aryans.

    Ugh, no. Proto- at best. Why do you keep insisting on this?

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    Well Aryans are technically the Proto-Indo-Europeans so they would have been Aryan.
  31. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/gnxp_posts/status/1086021868409114624

    Finally, there is the issue concerning indigenous (and non-indigenous) sensitivities. These are real issues [….] scientists are almost certainly going to discover things that conflict with local oral history […]

    If scientists do not work with indigenous people, then all that will result in ultimately is a lacuna about the histories of these people. Perhaps the world would be better for that, but I’m skeptical.

    One such group is the Basque. They have the highest rate of R1b (Indo-European) in Europe, but also a seemingly legitimate claim to being direct cultural heirs (language) of the ‘indigenous’ Europeans of pre-IndoEuropean times.

    These two pieces don’t exactly fit together.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    And the French speak a Romance language, because they are Italic?

    Conquerors do often assimilate into the language of the conquered... as I type this in English, not Norman French.
  32. @Lagertha
    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish (I've said that before, here, whatever). My father, as a boy, read Price Valiant during the War years - he was stuck (his thoughts) in Sweden as a young boy (Sweden was already effeminate even in 1930' - Norwegians and Finns know what I'm talkin' about) wondering how W2 would work out!...whether his father would win or die. I still have his comic books and his war set! even tin soldiers of Napolean's army! I am inundated with my parents stuff! but..slowly, I'll get thru bc they got thru life and death. I so miss them. This was the first Christmas without either one of them. I feel sad. I loved my parents. They were so much fun and they loved parties, my friends..they loved conversation, they loved dominating conversation...but they loved each guest, each newcomer into our intense family.

    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish

    It is these kinds of things (coincidence though it may be) that make Finns absolutely True Europeans of spirit.

    Say No to naysayers, trolls, linguists, and any narrow-view genetic pedants with stick clasped in hand ready to muddy the waters.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It is these kinds of things (coincidence though it may be) that make Finns absolutely True Europeans of spirit.
     
    Finns have a Siberian admixture.
    , @Lagertha
    Urho Kekkonen was the president of Finland my entire youth: 1956-1982! - I was born in the early 60's.

    Urho out-drank the Russians, probably bc he was so physically fit; walked home from Parliament houses to his home on Seurasaari (5 km). He skied and ran everyday. Urho (Ur) means bear in ancient languages, and truth and loyalty. For those of you who travel: go see his home and I dare you to run "his daily run." - it is tough in any season.

  33. @Hail

    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish
     
    It is these kinds of things (coincidence though it may be) that make Finns absolutely True Europeans of spirit.

    Say No to naysayers, trolls, linguists, and any narrow-view genetic pedants with stick clasped in hand ready to muddy the waters.

    It is these kinds of things (coincidence though it may be) that make Finns absolutely True Europeans of spirit.

    Finns have a Siberian admixture.

  34. Yes, Boas wasn’t a Boasian. He didn’t hold the simplistic views later adopted by many of his followers.

  35. “the Pots Not Peoples orthodoxy of later 20th Century academia”

    It’s amazing how utterly useless huge chunks of academia have become since the 1960s, as they became politicised – anthropology, geography (‘human geography’ is basically sociology), history.

    Churchill (or his researchers) had a more realistic view in the 1930s. From the opening chapter of History Of The English-Speaking Peoples.

    At this point the march of invention brought a new factor upon the scene. Iron was dug and forged. Men armed with iron entered Britain from the Continent and killed the men of bronze. At this point we can plainly recognise across the vanished millenniums a fellow-being. A biped capable of slaying another with iron is evidently to modern eyes a man and a brother. It cannot be doubted that for smashing skulls, whether long-headed or round, iron is best.

  36. @Hail

    Finally, there is the issue concerning indigenous (and non-indigenous) sensitivities. These are real issues [....] scientists are almost certainly going to discover things that conflict with local oral history [...]

    If scientists do not work with indigenous people, then all that will result in ultimately is a lacuna about the histories of these people. Perhaps the world would be better for that, but I’m skeptical.
     

    One such group is the Basque. They have the highest rate of R1b (Indo-European) in Europe, but also a seemingly legitimate claim to being direct cultural heirs (language) of the 'indigenous' Europeans of pre-IndoEuropean times.

    These two pieces don't exactly fit together.

    And the French speak a Romance language, because they are Italic?

    Conquerors do often assimilate into the language of the conquered… as I type this in English, not Norman French.

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
    Obviously, languages get corrupted by invaders. Romance languages are latin based. The language of William the Conqueror combined with the native tongue that gave way to Chaucer's Middle English 200 years later.
    But when I was in school, we were taught that the Basque language was unique in that it didn't fit into the prescribed parent language model. That is to say, nobody had any good idea of where it came from (or perhaps, how it survived so unmolested, as it were). I'm nowhere near a linguist, so all I can say is what some PhD told me was the case, so this may be wrong.
    , @Redneck farmer
    And English is a pillow talk mixture of Anglo-Saxon and FRENCH. Of course, how good the Norman's French was, I'm not certain.
    , @Seth Largo
    This argument works poorly in the case of Basque, which is a language isolate and shows few if any signs of being in an 'areal feature' relationship with the surrounding Romance languages, the way Hindi has been influenced a bit by the pre-IE languages of South Asia.

    Also, conquerors assimilating the language of the conquered is by and large a rare phenomenon, and AFAIK, occurs when it's a matter of elite turnover, as was the case of the Norman French in England.
  37. @Inquiring Mind
    iSteve, aren't you putting yourself at risk of being stripped of all of your committee assignments?

    iSteve = King Steve, not Steve King.

  38. @songbird
    It's too bad that there was only one good Conan movie.

    Robert E. Howard had a better understanding of ancient history than today’s cultural anthropologists.

    Yes, I just hope H.P. Lovecraft didn’t have a better understanding of cosmogony.

    • Agree: songbird
    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  39. The writer’s last piece was on a private-jet dealer. Now, that seems like a great indicator that he has the scientific chops to wade into controversies regarding genetic research.

    I think I am qualified to be the NYT Chinese opera critic. True, I might not know anything about the subject but I do know how supportive the reviews need to be for the NYT to have any access and success in China

  40. @J.Ross

    the future was likely to demonstrate some meaningful genetic differences among populations and that we needed to be honest about such truths, lest they be abused by racist pseudoscience.
     
    Why can't we frame it this way: the Chinese are coming, they are truly terrifying in their practices, and they gave CRISPr. We can get out ahead of them now or be their slaves later. No, instead let's babble about Russia expanding by strategically losing territory.

    You know as well as I do J., we have to prove the Chinese held anti-Jewish pogroms. Then, and only then, will China truly be seeen as a problem.

  41. @Twinkie
    And the French speak a Romance language, because they are Italic?

    Conquerors do often assimilate into the language of the conquered... as I type this in English, not Norman French.

    Obviously, languages get corrupted by invaders. Romance languages are latin based. The language of William the Conqueror combined with the native tongue that gave way to Chaucer’s Middle English 200 years later.
    But when I was in school, we were taught that the Basque language was unique in that it didn’t fit into the prescribed parent language model. That is to say, nobody had any good idea of where it came from (or perhaps, how it survived so unmolested, as it were). I’m nowhere near a linguist, so all I can say is what some PhD told me was the case, so this may be wrong.

  42. @Lagertha
    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish (I've said that before, here, whatever). My father, as a boy, read Price Valiant during the War years - he was stuck (his thoughts) in Sweden as a young boy (Sweden was already effeminate even in 1930' - Norwegians and Finns know what I'm talkin' about) wondering how W2 would work out!...whether his father would win or die. I still have his comic books and his war set! even tin soldiers of Napolean's army! I am inundated with my parents stuff! but..slowly, I'll get thru bc they got thru life and death. I so miss them. This was the first Christmas without either one of them. I feel sad. I loved my parents. They were so much fun and they loved parties, my friends..they loved conversation, they loved dominating conversation...but they loved each guest, each newcomer into our intense family.

    “Norwegians and Finns know what I’m talkin’ about”
    I visited both Norway and Sweden last spring to visit relatives. (I am descended from Norwegians and Swedes who emigrated to Canada around 1900) I was struck by the differences between the two countries and that Sweden does seem more effeminate. Although to be fair, my experience in Norway was primarily rural while that of Sweden was more urban and I was only there for a month.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    always: stick to your instincts. Norway is so much more beautiful than Sweden. Finland is the Alaska of Scandinavia, and Denmark is California. Although, I do adore Kopenhamn. Go to the island of Mon, if you ever travel to Denmark.
  43. @Twinkie
    And the French speak a Romance language, because they are Italic?

    Conquerors do often assimilate into the language of the conquered... as I type this in English, not Norman French.

    And English is a pillow talk mixture of Anglo-Saxon and FRENCH. Of course, how good the Norman’s French was, I’m not certain.

    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    My favorite definition of English: a Romance language spoken with a Germanic accent.
  44. Anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:

    Pretty exciting times over at the Eurogenes website.

    Davidski has posited evidence that the ancient ‘Beaker Folk’ were an offshoot of ‘Corded Ware ‘.

    Perhaps that’s all gobbledygook to to the unintiated, but the up shot is that the present day British are, essentially, ‘Russians come by way of Germany’.

    Puts a whole new slant on the ‘Nordicism’ espoused by not a few ‘Anglo Saxons’. 🙂

  45. I think I am qualified to be the NYT Chinese opera critic.

    The question is whether you deserve to be a writer at the NYT. The answer to that question is yes, because everyone deserves to be a writer at the NYT, just as everyone deserves to be an American citizen.

  46. “David Reich’s lab is folded into a corner of a glassy, long-corridored labyrinth…”

    So he’s got a corner office with a nice view?

  47. “… the idea that something in your blood makes you meaningfully Spanish is absurd.”

    Someone should explain to this genius that things have no inherent meaning. Meaning is not an objective property of things, it can only be attributed (or not) to something by humans. I, as a Spaniard who can trace his Spanish roots to the 1650´s at least, choose to attribute a lot of meaning to that fact.

    He, on the other hand, chooses to attribute more meaning to migrations (which happen) than to stasis (which is way more common) because he wants to promote open borders, mass migration and the displacement of white (and only white) people. Just say openly, man. Drop the mask.

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    Well spotted.
  48. What fascinated Nietzsche was nothing practical, especially not subordination to the group, but rather exuberance, splendid animality, the instincts that delight in war and conquest, the deification of cunning, passion, revenge, anger and voluptuousness, of adventure… ritual, custom and the performance of great exploits. His hero, though it has been denied, was Cesare Borgia. Like post modern constructionists complaining about science he did not recognize truth as anything other than a move in a power game without end.

  49. That bit about Spain is so dishonest.

    “People who live in a place today often bear no genetic resemblance to people who lived there thousands of years ago, so the idea that something in your blood makes you meaningfully Spanish is absurd.”

    Not half as absurd as believing that a Spanish passport makes you meaningfully Spanish, in the same sense.

    “Spain” is a social construct. I bet the Yamna didn’t call it that. But I bet you can distinguish Spanish from the Portuguese with DNA. Hell, you can probably distinguish Andalusian from Asturian or Castilian.

    Btw I added an OT comment to the Greg Cochran post and it vanished, as did its successor.

  50. Thank you, Steve, for giving your take, and for defending Reich’s, on this whole thing. I am occupied now, but reading quickly I see a couple of things in this article that are dear to my heart.

    I.e., the Aryan invaders (e.g., Zarathustra) who fascinated Schopenhauer and Nietzsche:

    Cue 2001.

    Since David is the third person in his nuclear family to become prominent, does that make him the third Reich?

    Cue my self-satisfied laughter.

    Your article comes as if in answer to my recently expressed interest in the shrinking living space of white people. Reich shows us that our ancestors were indeed spread farther and wider across Eurasian lands than they are now. My conclusion holds: We are in a phase of receding, being hectored and pushed back and misceginated by those around us.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Reich shows us that our ancestors were indeed spread farther and wider across Eurasian lands than they are now."

    Xinjiang wuz European, we wuz Tocharian Kangz, and Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Now I realize that my idea is embarrassingly oversimplified. I am confused about where "our" European race began and how to draw a line around that. As Steve says, a race is like a hill among hills, with unclear boundaries. So is the history of its formation.

    Reich's chapter on Europe shows that it was 4 or 5 thousand years ago that this was mostly a done deal for Europeans. They had pretty much reached their present form, but did they just stay where they were? Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or have they contracted since then, as I originally thought? If they just sat in one place for 4 thousand years, why?

    I should have known that we can't just say "our" ancestors to the east in Eurasia were just ours, because they also conquered other lands and peoples, giving rise to "cousins" of the Europeans. So, my idea was wrong. Those from the east were not the same people that we are now.

    But clearly European people are being pushed back or slowly infiltrated now, and I think it's pretty obvious that it happened at least once before on the southern part of Europe -- with lingering changes in the people. And I'm still wondering if it happened in any other part of Europe or at any other time.

  51. “a slippery slope to the conclusion”

    In machine learning, it’s called “gradient descent”.

    Like “discrimination”, it’s what those pesky neural networks to us, like make us survive and reproduce. Damn them all straight to Hell!!!

  52. @Twinkie

    Indo-Europeans or Aryans.
     
    Ugh, no. Proto- at best. Why do you keep insisting on this?

    Well Aryans are technically the Proto-Indo-Europeans so they would have been Aryan.

  53. We are all Cossacks now.

  54. @niteranger
    The article points out the basic war between Anthropology (now a non-science) and Genetics. The Jewish Times of New York has gone full blast with the complete attack on all Western Science. This is nothing new. This falls in line with their complete Marxist agenda that everyone is equal and is congruent with their Op-Eds and other articles touting complete open borders.

    Anthropology was destroyed by Boas, a crazy German Jew, who took the discipline from a Scientific one to a Cultural Cesspool. Margaret Meade was a disciple of Boas and committed numerous academic frauds including the famous Samoan Research exposed by Anthropologist Freeman from New Zealand. Even a cursory inspection of much of her research will show more academic problems.

    The problem I have is Reich. I don't trust him. I believe when he was asked about doing DNA research on Jewish bodies found in Israel he was not interested. I wonder why because Jewish Anthropology is some of the best Pseudoscience to be found. He's afraid of what the results will be and the Ashkenazi Magic Myth that they belong in Palestine.

    I still think there’s something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not really.

    Consider exponential growth. The massive population surge of the Ashkenazi only came in the 18th to 19th centuries.
    , @AnotherDad

    I still think there’s something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.
     
    There's nothing to the Khazar theory. The answer to your question is "population explosion".

    The Jews were--wisely--pushed out of the West in the Late Middle Ages as those nations gelled, and welcomed in the Polish Commonwealth with special protections and sinecures. Not surprisingly the Jews had a huge population explosion in the East at the expense of the natives, so large that they simply outstripped the capability of their middle man occupations to support them.

    (The comparision of nations like England and France that expelled Jews, did their own "middle man" occupations themselves and went on to world historical greatness versus Poland, Eastern Europe, Russia is a reminder that allowing middle-man minorities is a really bad idea. Be your own merchants, bankers, traders, lawyers, bureaucrats, anthoropology professors. Develop your own people's talents and skills and you'll have a much brighter future--and better anthropology.)

    But anyway the bottom line here is middle man occupations are lucrative and women can produce a lot of babies if food is available.
  55. @Buzz Mohawk
    Thank you, Steve, for giving your take, and for defending Reich's, on this whole thing. I am occupied now, but reading quickly I see a couple of things in this article that are dear to my heart.

    I.e., the Aryan invaders (e.g., Zarathustra) who fascinated Schopenhauer and Nietzsche:
     
    Cue 2001.

    Since David is the third person in his nuclear family to become prominent, does that make him the third Reich?
     
    Cue my self-satisfied laughter.

    Your article comes as if in answer to my recently expressed interest in the shrinking living space of white people. Reich shows us that our ancestors were indeed spread farther and wider across Eurasian lands than they are now. My conclusion holds: We are in a phase of receding, being hectored and pushed back and misceginated by those around us.

    “Reich shows us that our ancestors were indeed spread farther and wider across Eurasian lands than they are now.”

    Xinjiang wuz European, we wuz Tocharian Kangz, and Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    LOL. I can't tell if you're laughing at me or with me, and if I wrote something stupid or not.

    Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!
     
    Maybe just take some of the women. Isn't that how it works in this whole story? Y disappears...X remains...etc.?

    http://chinese-sirens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mahire-emet-06.jpg

    Mahire Emet, an Uyghur dancer, actress and singer born in Xinjiang
  56. @Inquiring Mind
    iSteve, aren't you putting yourself at risk of being stripped of all of your committee assignments?

    No. There’s blood in the water now. The Restoration will not be denied.

  57. @Flip
    I still think there's something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.

    Not really.

    Consider exponential growth. The massive population surge of the Ashkenazi only came in the 18th to 19th centuries.

  58. I take this quells the oft ranted refrain about white, black, brown or green purity.

  59. “Now it seemed as though culture was less about the invention and spread of new ideas and more about the mass movements of particular peoples — and the resulting integration, outcompetition or extermination of the communities they overran. ”
    Having lived in Southern California for over half a century and watched it happening, I can vouch for the fact that this is still how history works.
    What has changed is that previous migrations and displacements were usually carried out by one single group of new people. Here and in the rest of the US it is being done by multiple disparate groups in overlapping invasions.
    Younger readers will have the pleasure of seeing if eventually all the groups settle down into a new arrangement and blend in, or if it all turns into the proverbial knife fight in a bar after someone turns all the lights off.

  60. …the leftist dogmatists imperialized academia. How did that adventure end?

    It hasn’t.

  61. @Reg Cæsar

    Paabo, who will likely win a Nobel Prize eventually, is the secret biological son of 1982 Nobel Laureate Sune Bergstrom, obviously disproving all this hereditarian nonsense.

     

    On the other hand, his legitimate half-brother born the same year is a dance DJ or some other pedestrian job holder. This could be used as evidence for one of the more robust of environmental factors for success, that of losing a parent young.


    A competing genetic factor could be that Paabo's mother is Estonian, while his brother's mother (bromo?) is a Swede. (I assume.) Hybrid vigor could be in play.

    A competing genetic factor could be that Paabo’s mother is Estonian, while his brother’s mother (bromo?) is a Swede. (I assume.) Hybrid vigor could be in play.

    Or perhaps his mother was just smarter than the mother of his half-brother.

  62. @Hypnotoad666

    He was careful to differentiate the idea of a genetic population from the old idea of race, which he agreed was a social rather than biological fact.
     
    A rose by any other name . . . But if a simple shell game with words is all it takes to placate the scientifically illiterate journalists, then so be it.

    But if a simple shell game with words is all it takes

    Trump, the carnival barker-esque businessman and hobby politician, is- for all his picayune exaggerations and puffery- still by far the most honest man in Washington, maybe since Washington (and, yes, I know the Federal capital was still in New York City during the great man’s time). The rejected outsider who, when you really stop to think about it, is a purer example of the thing he is tormented for supposedly defiling than any of his normie antagonists, used to be a standard POZ media trope- e,g. the hooker with the heart of gold, the honorable thief, the sexual non-conformist who is still a better pillar of bourgeoisie rectitude than any uptight, secretly-perverted, heart-of-suburban darkness dweller. See SHAPE OF WATER, where the motley crew of mute girl, her fish [email protected] lover, and their assorted gang of misfit friends, is still a purer “family” than white 50’s suburban man and his Stepford wife, is a throwback to this trope.

    Trump is hated because his fun, little lies exposes their big, malice-filled ones. I therefore think we should always call out obvious sophists, goal post-movers, special pleaders and tactical obscurantists (“we may never know what caused the murder rate to spike in 2016 except to say there definitely was no Ferguson Effect”) for what they really are- grifters, con artists, snake oil salesmen and shell game runners.

  63. David Reich’s lab is folded into a corner of a glassy, long-corridored labyrinth at Harvard Medical School. …

    Das Reichsamt fur Sippenforshung

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    :-)
  64. @Flip
    I still think there's something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.

    I still think there’s something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.

    There’s nothing to the Khazar theory. The answer to your question is “population explosion”.

    The Jews were–wisely–pushed out of the West in the Late Middle Ages as those nations gelled, and welcomed in the Polish Commonwealth with special protections and sinecures. Not surprisingly the Jews had a huge population explosion in the East at the expense of the natives, so large that they simply outstripped the capability of their middle man occupations to support them.

    (The comparision of nations like England and France that expelled Jews, did their own “middle man” occupations themselves and went on to world historical greatness versus Poland, Eastern Europe, Russia is a reminder that allowing middle-man minorities is a really bad idea. Be your own merchants, bankers, traders, lawyers, bureaucrats, anthoropology professors. Develop your own people’s talents and skills and you’ll have a much brighter future–and better anthropology.)

    But anyway the bottom line here is middle man occupations are lucrative and women can produce a lot of babies if food is available.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Do you know how stupid you sound?

    Do you know anything about Poland, the greatest country at the present time on the face of the Earth?

    Of course you don't, you are just anothermidwit.

    Prove me wrong, say something intelligent and informed.

    That would be amazing! because you are a condescending midwit, those are the most hopeless kind.

    Read and study the Bible, pray to be less ignorant, lay off the internet for a few months.

    Priceless advice, but of course you are going to snarl in response.

    But you can do better! Rise above the level of tinyduck, anotherdad !

    Don't snarl, read the Bible, try and become less of a midwit!

    You are welcome for the good advice.

    Snarl away if you want, but it would be better for you if you didn't.

  65. @International Jew

    ancient DNA science appears to be revealing Old Truths
     
    That might be why I'm finding Reich's book (reading it now) kinda boring; at every turn I find myself thinking, "Didn't we already know that?"

    That might be why I’m finding Reich’s book (reading it now) kinda boring; at every turn I find myself thinking, “Didn’t we already know that?”

    Well put. My reaction as well.

    … He [Reich] observed that “essentially everybody was surprised.”

    Reich seems to have a big head, and likes to present his work as painting a brand new, paradigm shattering picture. What bunk. He’s certainly entitled to be proud of his work, his lab, but he’s basically confirming the correctness of a very old picture–granted against the kumbaya, pots-not-people nonsense of leftist/feminist loons who’d managed to hijack anthropology departments from the 60s.

    The English guys had noticed–as apparently several Portuguese had earlier–relationship between Indian and European languages and then guys like William Jones had done detailed study… in the 18th century! Academics had built up the Indo-European language idea, and August Schleicher presented language families as a tree. This is all by the mid-1800s. The archeologists were running around digging up stuff and this strong material change with the Battle Axe culture was well documented. Hey the steppe people invaded and must have brought Indo-languages! Duh.

    And the early Y-chromosome an mtDNA results of 20 years ago had already confirmed this picture, but seriously the basic picture was understood when I was born!

    Serious people–i.e. not leftist feminist academic loons–always knew they weren’t running ESL-pottery classes on the Danube 5000 years ago.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    The pages that describe how Reich's India research got stopped cold over Hindu nationalistic bullshit, and the compromise he had to make to salvage that project, are pretty amusing.
  66. These newcomers were known to exploit many of the cutting-edge technologies of the time

    So one could say they blitzkrieg’d all the way left across the Eurasian landmass? Liebensraum 3900 BC- it’s who we are!

  67. @Bartolo
    "... the idea that something in your blood makes you meaningfully Spanish is absurd."

    Someone should explain to this genius that things have no inherent meaning. Meaning is not an objective property of things, it can only be attributed (or not) to something by humans. I, as a Spaniard who can trace his Spanish roots to the 1650´s at least, choose to attribute a lot of meaning to that fact.

    He, on the other hand, chooses to attribute more meaning to migrations (which happen) than to stasis (which is way more common) because he wants to promote open borders, mass migration and the displacement of white (and only white) people. Just say openly, man. Drop the mask.

    Well spotted.

  68. @Steve Sailer
    Franz Boas wasn't such a bad guy. His views were a reasonable corrective to the excessive views of his Galtonian opponents.

    But after his death, his side won too big and squeezed out the other side for a long time.

    Boas may not have been, but his followers have not squeezed their opponents out temporarily, they have permanently removed them from that field. Niteranger is right, anthropology with cultural anthropologists in it is no longer a science at all. At Harvard and Cal Berkeley, the scientific oriented biological anthropologists have formed their own departments independent of the cultural anthropologists.

  69. @AnotherDad

    That might be why I’m finding Reich’s book (reading it now) kinda boring; at every turn I find myself thinking, “Didn’t we already know that?”
     
    Well put. My reaction as well.

    … He [Reich] observed that “essentially everybody was surprised.”
     

    Reich seems to have a big head, and likes to present his work as painting a brand new, paradigm shattering picture. What bunk. He's certainly entitled to be proud of his work, his lab, but he's basically confirming the correctness of a very old picture--granted against the kumbaya, pots-not-people nonsense of leftist/feminist loons who'd managed to hijack anthropology departments from the 60s.

    The English guys had noticed--as apparently several Portuguese had earlier--relationship between Indian and European languages and then guys like William Jones had done detailed study... in the 18th century! Academics had built up the Indo-European language idea, and August Schleicher presented language families as a tree. This is all by the mid-1800s. The archeologists were running around digging up stuff and this strong material change with the Battle Axe culture was well documented. Hey the steppe people invaded and must have brought Indo-languages! Duh.

    And the early Y-chromosome an mtDNA results of 20 years ago had already confirmed this picture, but seriously the basic picture was understood when I was born!

    Serious people--i.e. not leftist feminist academic loons--always knew they weren't running ESL-pottery classes on the Danube 5000 years ago.

    The pages that describe how Reich’s India research got stopped cold over Hindu nationalistic bullshit, and the compromise he had to make to salvage that project, are pretty amusing.

  70. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Reich shows us that our ancestors were indeed spread farther and wider across Eurasian lands than they are now."

    Xinjiang wuz European, we wuz Tocharian Kangz, and Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!

    LOL. I can’t tell if you’re laughing at me or with me, and if I wrote something stupid or not.

    Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!

    Maybe just take some of the women. Isn’t that how it works in this whole story? Y disappears…X remains…etc.?

    Mahire Emet, an Uyghur dancer, actress and singer born in Xinjiang

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Most Uighurs do not look like that.

    Also, the steppe invaders are your ancestors, but they also are ancestors of a lot of non-Europeans.
    , @Lars Porsena
    Deal.

    Make Tocharia Great Again.
  71. @Buzz Mohawk
    LOL. I can't tell if you're laughing at me or with me, and if I wrote something stupid or not.

    Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!
     
    Maybe just take some of the women. Isn't that how it works in this whole story? Y disappears...X remains...etc.?

    http://chinese-sirens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mahire-emet-06.jpg

    Mahire Emet, an Uyghur dancer, actress and singer born in Xinjiang

    Most Uighurs do not look like that.

    Also, the steppe invaders are your ancestors, but they also are ancestors of a lot of non-Europeans.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    I hear you, and I stand corrected.

    So my honest question is: In the past, how widespread in Eurasia were the peoples we would recognize as Europeans? Have they receded, expanded, or remained on the same lands the whole time they have existed in their present form? (Not counting America, Australia, etc.)

    Maybe my whole idea that they have been receding and experiencing miscegenation for a long time is wrong. I do feel that it happened during the spread north of Islamic peoples centuries ago, who were then driven back, and I do believe the same thing is happening now (there and in America and possibly the whole Anglosphere) but what about the sweeping history of the people during the few thousand years they have existed?

  72. @AnotherDad

    I still think there’s something to the Khazar theory. The vast numbers of Ashkenazi Jews in eastern Europe coming from a limited number of people from the Rhineland seems implausible.
     
    There's nothing to the Khazar theory. The answer to your question is "population explosion".

    The Jews were--wisely--pushed out of the West in the Late Middle Ages as those nations gelled, and welcomed in the Polish Commonwealth with special protections and sinecures. Not surprisingly the Jews had a huge population explosion in the East at the expense of the natives, so large that they simply outstripped the capability of their middle man occupations to support them.

    (The comparision of nations like England and France that expelled Jews, did their own "middle man" occupations themselves and went on to world historical greatness versus Poland, Eastern Europe, Russia is a reminder that allowing middle-man minorities is a really bad idea. Be your own merchants, bankers, traders, lawyers, bureaucrats, anthoropology professors. Develop your own people's talents and skills and you'll have a much brighter future--and better anthropology.)

    But anyway the bottom line here is middle man occupations are lucrative and women can produce a lot of babies if food is available.

    Do you know how stupid you sound?

    Do you know anything about Poland, the greatest country at the present time on the face of the Earth?

    Of course you don’t, you are just anothermidwit.

    Prove me wrong, say something intelligent and informed.

    That would be amazing! because you are a condescending midwit, those are the most hopeless kind.

    Read and study the Bible, pray to be less ignorant, lay off the internet for a few months.

    Priceless advice, but of course you are going to snarl in response.

    But you can do better! Rise above the level of tinyduck, anotherdad !

    Don’t snarl, read the Bible, try and become less of a midwit!

    You are welcome for the good advice.

    Snarl away if you want, but it would be better for you if you didn’t.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    And this sort of person is why we will never be completely free of the allegation that Poland really did start WWII.
  73. @Twinkie
    Most Uighurs do not look like that.

    Also, the steppe invaders are your ancestors, but they also are ancestors of a lot of non-Europeans.

    I hear you, and I stand corrected.

    So my honest question is: In the past, how widespread in Eurasia were the peoples we would recognize as Europeans? Have they receded, expanded, or remained on the same lands the whole time they have existed in their present form? (Not counting America, Australia, etc.)

    Maybe my whole idea that they have been receding and experiencing miscegenation for a long time is wrong. I do feel that it happened during the spread north of Islamic peoples centuries ago, who were then driven back, and I do believe the same thing is happening now (there and in America and possibly the whole Anglosphere) but what about the sweeping history of the people during the few thousand years they have existed?

  74. @Mr. Anon

    David Reich’s lab is folded into a corner of a glassy, long-corridored labyrinth at Harvard Medical School. …
     
    Das Reichsamt fur Sippenforshung

    🙂

  75. @Buzz Mohawk
    LOL. I can't tell if you're laughing at me or with me, and if I wrote something stupid or not.

    Trump needs to retake the Tarim Basin!
     
    Maybe just take some of the women. Isn't that how it works in this whole story? Y disappears...X remains...etc.?

    http://chinese-sirens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mahire-emet-06.jpg

    Mahire Emet, an Uyghur dancer, actress and singer born in Xinjiang

    Deal.

    Make Tocharia Great Again.

  76. @Buzz Mohawk
    Thank you, Steve, for giving your take, and for defending Reich's, on this whole thing. I am occupied now, but reading quickly I see a couple of things in this article that are dear to my heart.

    I.e., the Aryan invaders (e.g., Zarathustra) who fascinated Schopenhauer and Nietzsche:
     
    Cue 2001.

    Since David is the third person in his nuclear family to become prominent, does that make him the third Reich?
     
    Cue my self-satisfied laughter.

    Your article comes as if in answer to my recently expressed interest in the shrinking living space of white people. Reich shows us that our ancestors were indeed spread farther and wider across Eurasian lands than they are now. My conclusion holds: We are in a phase of receding, being hectored and pushed back and misceginated by those around us.

    Now I realize that my idea is embarrassingly oversimplified. I am confused about where “our” European race began and how to draw a line around that. As Steve says, a race is like a hill among hills, with unclear boundaries. So is the history of its formation.

    Reich’s chapter on Europe shows that it was 4 or 5 thousand years ago that this was mostly a done deal for Europeans. They had pretty much reached their present form, but did they just stay where they were? Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or have they contracted since then, as I originally thought? If they just sat in one place for 4 thousand years, why?

    I should have known that we can’t just say “our” ancestors to the east in Eurasia were just ours, because they also conquered other lands and peoples, giving rise to “cousins” of the Europeans. So, my idea was wrong. Those from the east were not the same people that we are now.

    But clearly European people are being pushed back or slowly infiltrated now, and I think it’s pretty obvious that it happened at least once before on the southern part of Europe — with lingering changes in the people. And I’m still wondering if it happened in any other part of Europe or at any other time.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or have they contracted since then, as I originally thought?
     
    That should read, "Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or did they contract at any time before that, at any time in the past 4 or 5 thousand years?"

    I'm giving up now because I'm tired and embarrassed and not making much sense.

  77. @Buzz Mohawk
    Now I realize that my idea is embarrassingly oversimplified. I am confused about where "our" European race began and how to draw a line around that. As Steve says, a race is like a hill among hills, with unclear boundaries. So is the history of its formation.

    Reich's chapter on Europe shows that it was 4 or 5 thousand years ago that this was mostly a done deal for Europeans. They had pretty much reached their present form, but did they just stay where they were? Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or have they contracted since then, as I originally thought? If they just sat in one place for 4 thousand years, why?

    I should have known that we can't just say "our" ancestors to the east in Eurasia were just ours, because they also conquered other lands and peoples, giving rise to "cousins" of the Europeans. So, my idea was wrong. Those from the east were not the same people that we are now.

    But clearly European people are being pushed back or slowly infiltrated now, and I think it's pretty obvious that it happened at least once before on the southern part of Europe -- with lingering changes in the people. And I'm still wondering if it happened in any other part of Europe or at any other time.

    Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or have they contracted since then, as I originally thought?

    That should read, “Did they expand their territory anytime before they crossed the oceans? Or did they contract at any time before that, at any time in the past 4 or 5 thousand years?”

    I’m giving up now because I’m tired and embarrassed and not making much sense.

  78. @anonymous
    Do you know how stupid you sound?

    Do you know anything about Poland, the greatest country at the present time on the face of the Earth?

    Of course you don't, you are just anothermidwit.

    Prove me wrong, say something intelligent and informed.

    That would be amazing! because you are a condescending midwit, those are the most hopeless kind.

    Read and study the Bible, pray to be less ignorant, lay off the internet for a few months.

    Priceless advice, but of course you are going to snarl in response.

    But you can do better! Rise above the level of tinyduck, anotherdad !

    Don't snarl, read the Bible, try and become less of a midwit!

    You are welcome for the good advice.

    Snarl away if you want, but it would be better for you if you didn't.

    And this sort of person is why we will never be completely free of the allegation that Poland really did start WWII.

  79. @Twinkie
    And the French speak a Romance language, because they are Italic?

    Conquerors do often assimilate into the language of the conquered... as I type this in English, not Norman French.

    This argument works poorly in the case of Basque, which is a language isolate and shows few if any signs of being in an ‘areal feature’ relationship with the surrounding Romance languages, the way Hindi has been influenced a bit by the pre-IE languages of South Asia.

    Also, conquerors assimilating the language of the conquered is by and large a rare phenomenon, and AFAIK, occurs when it’s a matter of elite turnover, as was the case of the Norman French in England.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    The most likely theory regarding the Basque language still is that invaders assimilated to an earlier culture/language and then outbred the natives.
  80. @Redneck farmer
    And English is a pillow talk mixture of Anglo-Saxon and FRENCH. Of course, how good the Norman's French was, I'm not certain.

    My favorite definition of English: a Romance language spoken with a Germanic accent.

    • Replies: @Unzerker
    The French/Romance influence on the English language is vastly overstated. English is a West-Germanic language with a lot of loan words of non-Germanic origin. But that is also the case for Dutch and German.
    The grammar however is Germanic and so is are most of the common words.
  81. @Seth Largo
    My favorite definition of English: a Romance language spoken with a Germanic accent.

    The French/Romance influence on the English language is vastly overstated. English is a West-Germanic language with a lot of loan words of non-Germanic origin. But that is also the case for Dutch and German.
    The grammar however is Germanic and so is are most of the common words.

  82. The book teach something new about Europeans :

    – White are made by 4 people who were as different than black, white and yellows : west hunter gatherer, anatolian/Levantine farmers and metal age invaders (yamnaya et alii) who tbemselves are east hunter-gatherer and iranian/Indus valley farmers.

    – we learn same kind of stories for India.

    —-> This validates the XIX century (and Nazi) thesis about a masculine pastoralisr society savaging Europe and being the real founders of indo-european languages (despite their small numbers they made autochthonous Y dna disappear). It validates the theories with the Svastika. But it invalidates the thesis of a pure race (there were a mixture too) that would have had its origine in Germany and Central Europe. Reich is disingenuous because he over-emphasize the contradiction and novelty above the big confirmation of most philologist theories. But saying there is nothing new is also false. Nazi didn’t get the story straight by far !

    – we learn that the east hunter-gatherer shared same ancestors than North American natives. That’s why they have plenty of genomes in common with french/German people.

    The book is very easy to read. Fascinating because he doesn’t deliver simple results (He could have done that in 30 pages) but he presents the science in flux, showing different hypothesis.

    I love his dynamic Jewish mind . And he gets personal many times. That’s cool and sweet.

  83. So Europeans are Mestizos like Mexicans. Native mothers and foreign invader fathers.

  84. • Replies: @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1087564448225619968
  85. @MEH 0910
    https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1087538030578065408

  86. @protonic
    "Norwegians and Finns know what I’m talkin’ about"
    I visited both Norway and Sweden last spring to visit relatives. (I am descended from Norwegians and Swedes who emigrated to Canada around 1900) I was struck by the differences between the two countries and that Sweden does seem more effeminate. Although to be fair, my experience in Norway was primarily rural while that of Sweden was more urban and I was only there for a month.

    always: stick to your instincts. Norway is so much more beautiful than Sweden. Finland is the Alaska of Scandinavia, and Denmark is California. Although, I do adore Kopenhamn. Go to the island of Mon, if you ever travel to Denmark.

  87. @Hail

    Urheimat means the most valiant in Finnish
     
    It is these kinds of things (coincidence though it may be) that make Finns absolutely True Europeans of spirit.

    Say No to naysayers, trolls, linguists, and any narrow-view genetic pedants with stick clasped in hand ready to muddy the waters.

    Urho Kekkonen was the president of Finland my entire youth: 1956-1982! – I was born in the early 60’s.

    Urho out-drank the Russians, probably bc he was so physically fit; walked home from Parliament houses to his home on Seurasaari (5 km). He skied and ran everyday. Urho (Ur) means bear in ancient languages, and truth and loyalty. For those of you who travel: go see his home and I dare you to run “his daily run.” – it is tough in any season.

  88. @Seth Largo
    This argument works poorly in the case of Basque, which is a language isolate and shows few if any signs of being in an 'areal feature' relationship with the surrounding Romance languages, the way Hindi has been influenced a bit by the pre-IE languages of South Asia.

    Also, conquerors assimilating the language of the conquered is by and large a rare phenomenon, and AFAIK, occurs when it's a matter of elite turnover, as was the case of the Norman French in England.

    The most likely theory regarding the Basque language still is that invaders assimilated to an earlier culture/language and then outbred the natives.

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