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2008 track new

Here’s a graph I made up for a VDARE article after the 2008 Olympics. I haven’t updated it, but I doubt all that much has changed in the last 8 years.

I’ve created tables of the 200 fastest times for men by racial background for each of the major distances from 100 meters to the marathon (42,000 meters).

My calculations aren’t perfect, but I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of runners to ascertain their race. For example, the great Cuban 400m and 800m gold medalist at the 1972 and 1976 Games, Alberto Juantorena, wore his hair in the ‘fro style popular at the time.

These days, however, the balding Juantorena looks quite white.

The results are most informative. …

Blacks of West African descent utterly dominate the 100 meter dash, accounting for all but one of the 200 quickest marks in history.

Since 2008, Christophe Lemaitre of France, the 2016 bronze medalist in the 200m, has lowered the white world record in the 100m to 9.92 seconds. A Chinese guy has broken 10 seconds too.

They’re almost as dominant at 200m, not quite as overwhelming at 400m, and only modestly competitive at 800m. They aren’t world class at any longer lengths, although a black Brazilian did once run a fast marathon in the 1990s. (Brazilian blacks appear to average more East African ancestry than American and West Indian blacks.)

In contrast, this graph shows the strengths of the three African distance running powerhouses. The Kenyans (green line) are not competitive in the short sprints but occasionally show up in the 400. They are tremendously strong from 800m through the marathon.

The Kenyans’ northern neighbors, the Ethiopians (red line), don’t emerge until 3000 meters (I’ve averaged the 3000m steeplechase and the 3000m flat race). They peak at 5000 and 10000 meters.

I think the Ethiopians have been working on being better in the middle distances lately.

The northwest Africans (from Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia) aren’t competitive below 800m. Their most famous runners specialized in the 1500 but they are competitive at all the longer distances.

Both the black-skinned Kenyan and brown-skinned Ethiopian runners come overwhelmingly from highland portions of their countries, where evolving an efficient use of the limited oxygen is crucial.

Moreover, the “running tribe” of Kenya, the Kalenjin, had a history of cattle rustling on foot, sending young men to steal neighbors’ cows and stampede them home. The slower ones got spears in their backs, while the faster ones got multiple wives.

Ethiopia tends to produce superstar runners with long careers, such as Haile Gebrselassie and Kenenisa Bekele, while Kenya burns through countless speedy farmboys.

The differences between East Africans and West Africans are often overemphasized. While the former tend to have more aerobic capacity and slow twitch muscle fibers and the latter more musculature and more fast twitch fibers, black Africans tend to share the body structure most efficient for running. As O.J. Simpson, who once shared a world record in the sprint relay with his USC track teammates, explained in 1977: “We are built a little differently, built for speed—skinny calves, long legs, high asses are all characteristics of blacks.”

The Northwest Africans, such as 2004 Olympic hero Hicham El-Guerrouj, in contrast, are primarily olive-skinned Caucasians. Many Berbers and Arabs live in the tall Atlas Mountains of the Maghreb, but it’s not clear whether their runners are predominantly highlanders. Hicham El-Guerrouj, for instance, grew up on the Mediterranean. More research into northwest African runners is needed.

Maybe they just like running the way Belgians like road cycling?

People of European descent (blue line) appear to be about equally strong at all distances, but do relatively best at the lengths where West Africans and East Africans aren’t as specialized: 400 to 1500 and again at the marathon.

East Asians are noticeable only in the marathon, although there have been several good-but-not-great Japanese sprinters. In the 100, Japanese have comprised four of the 64 semifinalists over the last four Olympics, and they account for one of the top 200 times at 200 meters.

The Japanese men won the silver medal in the 4 x 100 meter sprint relay tonight, beating the Americans (who were subsequently disqualified). They might have been in the lead after three runners, but Jamaica had Usain Bolt as anchorman.

The Japanese national record is 10.00 in the 100m, set in 1998 with a barely legal tailwind. That’s the 829th best time ever. (Bolt’s world record is 9.58.) The Japanese are consistently quite good at the 100m and 200m (a Japanese sprinter finished 6th in 100 m final at the Los Angeles Olympics — not 1984, but 1932) without ever being great.

They’re very poor at the middle distances, then decent at the marathon.

My guess is that some number of Japanese just really like sprinting and go about being good at it in a methodical fashion. But I don’t know — there’s nothing much on Google in English about Japanese sprinting.

By the way, that reminds me: the Americans got disqualified from their bronze medal for passing the baton outside the passing zone. That’s actually a ticky-tack violation that officials should reduce in frequency by making the passing zones, say, 50% longer. Yeah, if you have Usain Bolt on your team, you could then have him carry the baton for 105 meters instead of 100, but that’s pretty minor compared to DQ.

The DQ of the Americans is actually unfair to the Japanese who flat out beat the Americans to the finish line. But in the future, people will look up the results, see Japan’s silver medal, then notice that the Americans were disqualified and naturally assume that the Japanese finished behind the Americans and got promoted to the silver medal because the Americans were disqualified. (Canadians may disagree with my logic.)

Not shown on these graph are all the regions with negligible representation. In particular, South Asia is a black hole for sports other than cricket.

It`s true that each culture has its peculiar favorite length—Americans in the 400, Kenyans in the 3000m steeplechase, and Maghrebians in the 1500.

Still, hereditary differences are the simplest explanation for why track-crazy countries like Kenya, Ethiopia, and Morocco can’t buy a sprinter, while Jamaica can’t produce a competitive miler. Runners and coaches always have an incentive to explore longer and shorter distances.

The relationship between amount of effort and amount of success in running is usually assumed to be high, but the relationship is complicated. Sprinting requires less exercise to be world class than just about any other sport. In preparation for winning four gold medals at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, Carl Lewis worked out eight hours per week.

 
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  1. OT but is this what they have in store for us ? white genocide ? Barry’s revenge for the purported flooding of the black ghettos with crack in the 80′s . Seems his dreamers are the pushers. Read it and weep, gents.

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-west-virginia-overdoses-20160817-snap-story.html

    Read More
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  2. “Trump Adviser Reportedly Boasted About Firing Jews, Denied Holocaust ”

    http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.737696

    A foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump allegedly boasted about firing Jews from his government department and denied the Holocaust to a colleague.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    This is based on hearsay:

    Meyer in his complaint quotes John Crane, a former assistant Defense Department Inspector General, as saying that Schmitz made the remarks. In one case, Crane alleged Schmitz said “I fired the Jews.” In another, he “allegedly lectured Mr. Crane on the details of concentration camps and how the ovens were too small to kill 6 million Jews,” Meyer wrote.
     
    , @SFG
    Reading the whole article, this is made by one guy complaining about being fired quoting another guy complaining about being fired. On the other hand, his dad seems to have been fond of IHR, so it's vaguely credible. The evidence seems too limited for me to get excited one way or the other.
    , @Prof. Woland
    As the (((Japanese))) are fond of saying, "If all you have is a hammer, pretty soon the whole world begins to look like a nail." Irrespective of which of the 17 Republican candidates won the primary, they were going to have to run the gauntlet of being accused of sexism and racism. Even Jeb would have been painted as some type of Klan member or campus rapist. The left has to reconcile themselves to the fact that they have had a 70 uninterrupted winning streak in the West but that will be over both in the US and Europe within one or two election cycles. Enjoy it while it lasts.
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  3. Have you noticed that almost all the black runners whether they are from the West Indies or Africa are from former British colonies? You don’t have too many black runners coming from say Brazil or Haiti, Senegal or Mali but lots from Kenya, Jamaica, Britain, Canada and of course the USA.

    I can not emphasize how the British emphasize track and field in their schools, and how they instilled a love for sports in their former subjects. Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.

    British sportsmanship is something else.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.
     
    So how come they dominate in one, and go nowhere in the other? Soccer is basically nothing but endurance, so Ethiopians should wipe the rest of us out. But they, and their neighbors, can't qualify for the bloated World Cup even once.
    , @syonredux
    Yeah, there's definitely an Anglo cultural element at work when it comes to Blacks and Track. As Steve has pointed out, it's nature getting a boost from nurture.
    , @Triumph104
    I'm sure it is just a case of the PEDs specialists sticking to English speaking countries to lessen the risk of exposure. Caribbean runners often attend college in the US so they have the same drug connections that Americans do. Customs is probably lax in the Caribbean so it is easy to import the drugs. Non-English speaking countries like Cuba may be too honest to deal with PEDs, the other countries may be too poor or just don't care that much about winning.

    Nearly all of the Kenyan runners come from the same tribe. They don't have any great love for running. They do it to make money, that's why so many of them are running for countries like Bahrain and Turkey now. They don't grow up running in organized school competitions either.
    , @sb
    There are famous missionary schools in Kenya where some Irish Brothers started track programs which kicked off the Kenyan running tradition of excellence .
    So it was one group of British colonials helping out another group
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  4. It appears the Japanese men took silver in the 4×100 relay.

    There have been many cases of Japanese runners doing quite well running.

    The Jamaican Japanese hapa probably doesn’t hurt this time around, either.

    Also speed skating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @wren
    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Also, here is the speed skating progression.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

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  5. The chart suggests that there should be a 600 meter event – it would appear to be a distance at which West Africans, Kenyans, and Europeans would be most competitive against each other.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I agree that 600M would be an interesting event. I also think 300M is a nice race distance (which is occasionally run).
    , @Brutusale
    High school indoor track, at least in Massachusetts, has a 600 meter event.
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  6. Wow. He does look white compared to his running days. Did he go full blown Sammy Sosa on us, or was it just cutting the Jew fro?

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  7. Japan got silver in the 4x100m relay beating all west-african descended USA team!

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    • Replies: @Rosh
    With a half-West African running their anchor leg! HBD wins even when you think it loses. Who could have predicted that one of the few black Japanese would find himself on the track team as the fastest sprinter for his country.
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  8. It turns out India has now won a Silver medal (women’s badminton) and a bronze medal (women’s wrestling).

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    • Replies: @Rosh
    Which puts all of South Asia (1.6 billion people) even in the medal table with Mongolia, population 3 million.
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  9. Will this be the first Olympics were blacks win every track event with the exception of the ridiculous walk races? Did that happen in any previous Olympics?

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    There is still the men's 1500m. Poland, Ukraine, Italy, and Australia are in the women's 4x400 but I doubt any of them have a chance at gold.
    , @S. Anonyia
    If it weren't for Caster the man running in the 800 meter final later, there'd be pretty good chance that one of the white women would win. Only 3 out of the 8 finalists are black. 2nd fastest semifinal time was a British woman.

    And to be fair, whites medaled in the 200 meter. I can't remember that happening recently.

    The Olympics ought to have a 4 X 800 relay. They have that event in high school/college.
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  10. @JohnnyWalker123
    It turns out India has now won a Silver medal (women's badminton) and a bronze medal (women's wrestling).

    Which puts all of South Asia (1.6 billion people) even in the medal table with Mongolia, population 3 million.

    Read More
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  11. @Luke
    Japan got silver in the 4x100m relay beating all west-african descended USA team!

    With a half-West African running their anchor leg! HBD wins even when you think it loses. Who could have predicted that one of the few black Japanese would find himself on the track team as the fastest sprinter for his country.

    Read More
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  12. Indians might win a surviving a famine on rice gold medal. The tendency to fat, minimally muscled appearance is probably good for that. Athletic endeavors not so much.

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  13. @Merema
    Have you noticed that almost all the black runners whether they are from the West Indies or Africa are from former British colonies? You don't have too many black runners coming from say Brazil or Haiti, Senegal or Mali but lots from Kenya, Jamaica, Britain, Canada and of course the USA.

    I can not emphasize how the British emphasize track and field in their schools, and how they instilled a love for sports in their former subjects. Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.


    British sportsmanship is something else.

    Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.

    So how come they dominate in one, and go nowhere in the other? Soccer is basically nothing but endurance, so Ethiopians should wipe the rest of us out. But they, and their neighbors, can’t qualify for the bloated World Cup even once.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Maybe they realized that soccer is gay.
    , @Anonymous
    You don't know what you're talking about. Football (or soccer for you Amerikaneers) isn't the same as running for 90 mins on a straight line, it's more like interval training. Footballers will sprint, jog, walk, or just stand during a match, and being able to do many 50m sprints and outrun your opponents for the first 70 minutes is much more valuable than not getting tired but never managing to reach the ball first.

    Besides, being skeleton-thin doesn't help you at all in scrambles.

    There's virtually no high-level Kenyan or Ethiopian footballer playing in the elite European leagues. Instead, a big majority of SSA players come from countries of West Africa, including those born/raised in European countries or holding European passports. And, guess what, on average they're all fast and muscular!
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  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    China came in 5th, 4th if you count the US disqualification, in the men’s 4X100m relay, beating Brazil, Britain, and Trinidad.

    The baton passing part of relays may introduce an additional element that involves focus and concentration that downplays somewhat pure running ability relative to the non-relay running events. Mistakes with the handoffs and dropping the baton don’t seem to be that uncommon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Especially for the American men, who have only won the Olympics once since Carl Lewis was their anchorman.
    , @Ola
    Not only the execution of the baton passing, also

    the running order
    the starting positions of runners 2, 3 and 4
    the position of the baton passing
    the free distance (the distance separating the two runners at the baton passing)

    all adds up to make a big difference and the Japanese team seems to have perfected most aspects. Very, very impressive.
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  15. @Reg Cæsar

    Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.
     
    So how come they dominate in one, and go nowhere in the other? Soccer is basically nothing but endurance, so Ethiopians should wipe the rest of us out. But they, and their neighbors, can't qualify for the bloated World Cup even once.

    Maybe they realized that soccer is gay.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Maybe they realized that soccer is gay.
     
    Like our ass-slapping version of football isn't? What with its constant "timeouts", substitutions and reentry, plastic lingerie, etc...

    Anyway, there's something rather cucky about ceding two of your major sports to your local Africans, and yet another to foreign Hispanics. Not to mention taxing yourself to build their arenas.

    And kicking your last-place team out of the league sounds decidedly less "gay" than rewarding it with a "first-round draft choice". (Which sounds like a beer, doesn't it?)
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  16. @Rosh
    Will this be the first Olympics were blacks win every track event with the exception of the ridiculous walk races? Did that happen in any previous Olympics?

    There is still the men’s 1500m. Poland, Ukraine, Italy, and Australia are in the women’s 4×400 but I doubt any of them have a chance at gold.

    Read More
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  17. @Anonymous
    China came in 5th, 4th if you count the US disqualification, in the men's 4X100m relay, beating Brazil, Britain, and Trinidad.

    The baton passing part of relays may introduce an additional element that involves focus and concentration that downplays somewhat pure running ability relative to the non-relay running events. Mistakes with the handoffs and dropping the baton don't seem to be that uncommon.

    Especially for the American men, who have only won the Olympics once since Carl Lewis was their anchorman.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dsgntd_plyr
    The US men's 4x100 team seems to always find a new and interesting way to lose the final to some island nation. Now we can't even beat Canada and Japan. Smh.
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  18. Usain Bolt is 29, but he looks like he could be about 40.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Usain and LeBron get their facials at the same spa: Wrinkles R Us.
    , @Jefferson
    "Usain Bolt is 29, but he looks like he could be about 40."

    I turned 31 this year and look significantly younger than 29 year old Usain Bolt. I can still pass for a college student because of my baby face.

    In his case Black does crack and in my case Pale hasn't gone stale.
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  19. @Merema
    Have you noticed that almost all the black runners whether they are from the West Indies or Africa are from former British colonies? You don't have too many black runners coming from say Brazil or Haiti, Senegal or Mali but lots from Kenya, Jamaica, Britain, Canada and of course the USA.

    I can not emphasize how the British emphasize track and field in their schools, and how they instilled a love for sports in their former subjects. Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.


    British sportsmanship is something else.

    Yeah, there’s definitely an Anglo cultural element at work when it comes to Blacks and Track. As Steve has pointed out, it’s nature getting a boost from nurture.

    Read More
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  20. @Anonymous
    Usain Bolt is 29, but he looks like he could be about 40.

    Usain and LeBron get their facials at the same spa: Wrinkles R Us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They also have similar hairlines.
    , @antipater_1
    Actually, wouldn't Bolt and James get their facials at We Be Wrinkles & Shit?
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  21. Asuka Cambridge, the son of a Japanese mother and Jamaican father, ran the anchor leg of the 4×100 relay to take silver for Japan. And so it was that the total West African ancestry of the Japanese team–representing a nation not especially known for its multiculturalism–was over 10%.

    Readers will note that every element of this story is pure iSteve-bait.

    Read More
    • Replies: @lambdaphagy
    Edit: Same story for Julian Walsh, who is the son of reggae drummer Emanuel Walsh. One begins to wonder just how much of Japan's T&F delegation is half-Jamaican.
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  22. @Anonymous
    "Trump Adviser Reportedly Boasted About Firing Jews, Denied Holocaust "

    http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.737696

    A foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump allegedly boasted about firing Jews from his government department and denied the Holocaust to a colleague.
     

    This is based on hearsay:

    Meyer in his complaint quotes John Crane, a former assistant Defense Department Inspector General, as saying that Schmitz made the remarks. In one case, Crane alleged Schmitz said “I fired the Jews.” In another, he “allegedly lectured Mr. Crane on the details of concentration camps and how the ovens were too small to kill 6 million Jews,” Meyer wrote.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian

    This is based on hearsay
     
    Oh, I guess that this will blow over, what with the American press' punctilious adherence to the norms of objective journalism. I was worried there for a second.
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  23. @Steve Sailer
    Usain and LeBron get their facials at the same spa: Wrinkles R Us.

    They also have similar hairlines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tacitus2016
    When I saw Bolt on TV today I thought he looked old for his age. Those chicken McNuggets must not be good for your health.
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  24. @lambdaphagy
    Asuka Cambridge, the son of a Japanese mother and Jamaican father, ran the anchor leg of the 4x100 relay to take silver for Japan. And so it was that the total West African ancestry of the Japanese team--representing a nation not especially known for its multiculturalism--was over 10%.

    Readers will note that every element of this story is pure iSteve-bait.

    Edit: Same story for Julian Walsh, who is the son of reggae drummer Emanuel Walsh. One begins to wonder just how much of Japan’s T&F delegation is half-Jamaican.

    Read More
    • Replies: @tomv
    Wonder no more. See for yourself.

    https://twitter.com/jaaf_official/status/747291829591105536
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  25. @Merema
    Have you noticed that almost all the black runners whether they are from the West Indies or Africa are from former British colonies? You don't have too many black runners coming from say Brazil or Haiti, Senegal or Mali but lots from Kenya, Jamaica, Britain, Canada and of course the USA.

    I can not emphasize how the British emphasize track and field in their schools, and how they instilled a love for sports in their former subjects. Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.


    British sportsmanship is something else.

    I’m sure it is just a case of the PEDs specialists sticking to English speaking countries to lessen the risk of exposure. Caribbean runners often attend college in the US so they have the same drug connections that Americans do. Customs is probably lax in the Caribbean so it is easy to import the drugs. Non-English speaking countries like Cuba may be too honest to deal with PEDs, the other countries may be too poor or just don’t care that much about winning.

    Nearly all of the Kenyan runners come from the same tribe. They don’t have any great love for running. They do it to make money, that’s why so many of them are running for countries like Bahrain and Turkey now. They don’t grow up running in organized school competitions either.

    Read More
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  26. @wren
    It appears the Japanese men took silver in the 4x100 relay.

    There have been many cases of Japanese runners doing quite well running.

    The Jamaican Japanese hapa probably doesn't hurt this time around, either.

    Also speed skating.

    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Also, here is the speed skating progression.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Read More
    • Replies: @wren
    Excuse me, wrong link for the speed skating. Here it is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_500_m_speed_skating_men
    , @Twinkie

    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).
     
    At the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Japan won both gold and silver in the Marathon. Both runners, however, were Koreans as Korea was under Japanese occupation at the time.

    Great Britain took silver.
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  27. @wren
    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Also, here is the speed skating progression.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Excuse me, wrong link for the speed skating. Here it is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_500_m_speed_skating_men

    Read More
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  28. I wonder which population is best suited for long distance olympic walking. Maybe East Africans could dominate in it like they do in long distance running, if they only tried. Maybe another set of skeletal mechanics, muscle structure etc. is best for this sport. But most likely it is just to much of a niche sport, and the main question for success is not so much talent but rather who has the crazy idea to compete in something like that.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My high school chemistry teacher, the aptly named Larry Walker, finished 22nd in the 20km walk at the 1976 Olympics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1976_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk

    , @Ola
    The mechanics are very different. High, skinny calves and narrow hips, for example, provide much less advantage than in running. I really don't think that East Africans could dominate.

    Race walking is a very niche sport and not even a part of track & field in Sweden. I've never actually seen the event in real life and I have never met anyone who competes in it.
    , @Triumph104
    I tried watching all of the men's 50km race walk. However, I started watching late on tape delay and about an hour before I got to the end CBC was sending popups about the saga of a Canadian finisher so I gave up.

    Race walking, 50km at least, and women's marathon have the same problem with the top contenders getting injured in the race and not finishing. They hardly get to compete because of the lengthy recovery time between races. In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official's naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye.) These sports are too much effort for too little payoff.

    Alex Schwazer, the Italian 2008 Olympic gold medalist in the 50km walk, was banned from the 2012 Olympics for doping and earlier this year was banned another eight years. He had also dodged testers when they came to his home.
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  29. @Erik Sieven
    I wonder which population is best suited for long distance olympic walking. Maybe East Africans could dominate in it like they do in long distance running, if they only tried. Maybe another set of skeletal mechanics, muscle structure etc. is best for this sport. But most likely it is just to much of a niche sport, and the main question for success is not so much talent but rather who has the crazy idea to compete in something like that.

    My high school chemistry teacher, the aptly named Larry Walker, finished 22nd in the 20km walk at the 1976 Olympics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1976_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk

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    • Replies: @wren
    I must note that the current record holder for the 20 km walk is Japanese. ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk_world_record_progression
    , @Anonym
    Do gold medallists in walking manage to get laid more than baseline? It seems like a sport that is one step below curling in the legitimacy stakes.
    , @Tacitus2016
    Same Olympics ironically named Kiwi John Walker won the 1500 metre run.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_(runner)
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  30. @Steve Sailer
    My high school chemistry teacher, the aptly named Larry Walker, finished 22nd in the 20km walk at the 1976 Olympics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1976_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk

    I must note that the current record holder for the 20 km walk is Japanese. ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk_world_record_progression

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  31. Once again the Bolt Broadcasting Corporation led the radio news with Usain Bolt’s third medal, when the UK women’s hockey team won gold last night (in a match the Dutch dominated throughout). That’s two days in a row he’s been first item despite UK gold wins.

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    • Replies: @John Galt
    The media does have a thing for Bolt. It's just as bad on NBC.

    I also was amazed men's field hockey is an Olympic sport. What kind of fairies play field hockey?
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  32. @Steve Sailer
    My high school chemistry teacher, the aptly named Larry Walker, finished 22nd in the 20km walk at the 1976 Olympics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1976_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk

    Do gold medallists in walking manage to get laid more than baseline? It seems like a sport that is one step below curling in the legitimacy stakes.

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  33. @Steve Sailer
    My high school chemistry teacher, the aptly named Larry Walker, finished 22nd in the 20km walk at the 1976 Olympics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1976_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_20_kilometres_walk

    Same Olympics ironically named Kiwi John Walker won the 1500 metre run.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_(runner)

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  34. @reiner Tor
    This is based on hearsay:

    Meyer in his complaint quotes John Crane, a former assistant Defense Department Inspector General, as saying that Schmitz made the remarks. In one case, Crane alleged Schmitz said “I fired the Jews.” In another, he “allegedly lectured Mr. Crane on the details of concentration camps and how the ovens were too small to kill 6 million Jews,” Meyer wrote.
     

    This is based on hearsay

    Oh, I guess that this will blow over, what with the American press’ punctilious adherence to the norms of objective journalism. I was worried there for a second.

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    • LOL: reiner Tor
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  35. @Anonymous
    They also have similar hairlines.

    When I saw Bolt on TV today I thought he looked old for his age. Those chicken McNuggets must not be good for your health.

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  36. That 1970s picture of Alberto Juantorena makes him look like a Mulatto version of Sonny Corleone a.k.a James Caan

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I was thinking a cross between Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman.
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  37. @Jefferson
    That 1970s picture of Alberto Juantorena makes him look like a Mulatto version of Sonny Corleone a.k.a James Caan

    I was thinking a cross between Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "I was thinking a cross between Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman."

    He looks like a 1972 James Caan in The Godfather, if Sonny Corleone hung out in a tanning salon all day long.
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  38. @Anonymous
    Usain Bolt is 29, but he looks like he could be about 40.

    “Usain Bolt is 29, but he looks like he could be about 40.”

    I turned 31 this year and look significantly younger than 29 year old Usain Bolt. I can still pass for a college student because of my baby face.

    In his case Black does crack and in my case Pale hasn’t gone stale.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she's pushing 50.
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  39. @Jefferson
    "Usain Bolt is 29, but he looks like he could be about 40."

    I turned 31 this year and look significantly younger than 29 year old Usain Bolt. I can still pass for a college student because of my baby face.

    In his case Black does crack and in my case Pale hasn't gone stale.

    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she’s pushing 50.

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    • Replies: @Spotted Toad
    I see a lot of people online saying anabolic steroids prematurely age your face. Usain Bolt looked more like a guy on a lot of PEDs this time than previously, to me.

    He's pointed out reasonably enough that he was very very fast before he could have plausibly been juicing, as a teenager. But that was four years before he started breaking records.
    , @syonredux

    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she’s pushing 50.
     
    Yeah. Bolt's prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I've read, prolonged use is bad for the skin
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  40. I wonder what distance (or sport) would be most fair to people accross different racial backgrounds. Perhaps the Decathlon or Pentathlon, since the racial differences are balanced by the variety of sports.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A lot of decathlete gold medalists have been half black: Daley Thompson twice, Dan O'Brien, Bryan Clay (half Japanese), and Ashton Eaton twice. That's six of the last ten gold medalists. Since WWII, there have been two blacks (Milt Campbell and Rafer Johnson) and the rest white. The silver medalist this year was a Nordic looking Frenchman.

    So the decathlon seems quite racially balanced between black and white skills. And decathletes tend to look like what you picture your athletic champ to look like, whereas so many these days are so specialized for their events they look kind of funny.

    Of course, it's pretty unwieldy and goes on for two long days, leaving the champion pretty exhausted at the end when he's being interviewed. When I saw it in 1984, the 8th event, the pole vault took forever and the German contender got sunstroke (he wasn't wearing sunglasses, which was big mistake).

    If I was going to pick a single event, I'd probably pick pole vault, even though it's kind of crazy. But it's a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.

    , @Michelle
    Isn't that like dumbing down firefighting tests and such?
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  41. @Anonymous Nephew
    Once again the Bolt Broadcasting Corporation led the radio news with Usain Bolt's third medal, when the UK women's hockey team won gold last night (in a match the Dutch dominated throughout). That's two days in a row he's been first item despite UK gold wins.

    The media does have a thing for Bolt. It’s just as bad on NBC.

    I also was amazed men’s field hockey is an Olympic sport. What kind of fairies play field hockey?

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    • Replies: @sb
    I doubt that there are many countries outside South Asia where field hockey gets any attention outside the Olympics .
    But that's true for many ( most ? ) Olympic sports .

    I think that a lot of people consider the modern Olympics to be a bit girly and gay . I'm not sure that field hockey is anymore that way than, say, volleyball ( or lacrosse )
    , @Okie
    its just in na that field hockey is femme, in the rest of the world it occupies a niche like lacrosse does here. Heck until the federation changed the turf to artificial, it Was the sport that India dominated like the usa dominated basketball.
    , @Numinous
    What problem do you have with field hockey? And it's been an Olympic sport forever. Lots of countries play it, far more than play ice hockey. It's also a real "sport", which is more than could be said about dressage or synchronized gymnastics.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "What kind of fairies play field hockey?"

    Among male hockey players in the UK there are few fairies, and even fewer among the Asian players. When our local team play an Asian side they're always expecting a battle and bruises at minimum, and when Sikhs have the occasional internal scrap over control of some gurdwara (temple) hockey sticks are the weapon of choice.

    Ladies hockey however is quite (though not exclusively) butch. The gold-winning GB women's team is I believe the first single-sex Olympic-winning side to contain a "married" couple.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-37141969

    "Team GB captain Kate Richardson-Walsh and wife Helen have become the first same-sex married couple to win an Olympic gold in the same final. The win over the Dutch means Kate, 36, and her spouse, 34, are also thought to be the first married couple since 1900 to win medals on the same team. The pair played their first Olympic Games together at Sydney in 2000. Fellow members of Reading Hockey Club have described them as an "inspiration". They became the first British married couple to win gold since Cyril and Dorothy Wright in the sailing in 1920."
     
    That high-pitched whirring sound is Cyril and Dorothy Wright rotating in their graves at 10,000 rpm.
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  42. @TelfoedJohn
    I wonder what distance (or sport) would be most fair to people accross different racial backgrounds. Perhaps the Decathlon or Pentathlon, since the racial differences are balanced by the variety of sports.

    A lot of decathlete gold medalists have been half black: Daley Thompson twice, Dan O’Brien, Bryan Clay (half Japanese), and Ashton Eaton twice. That’s six of the last ten gold medalists. Since WWII, there have been two blacks (Milt Campbell and Rafer Johnson) and the rest white. The silver medalist this year was a Nordic looking Frenchman.

    So the decathlon seems quite racially balanced between black and white skills. And decathletes tend to look like what you picture your athletic champ to look like, whereas so many these days are so specialized for their events they look kind of funny.

    Of course, it’s pretty unwieldy and goes on for two long days, leaving the champion pretty exhausted at the end when he’s being interviewed. When I saw it in 1984, the 8th event, the pole vault took forever and the German contender got sunstroke (he wasn’t wearing sunglasses, which was big mistake).

    If I was going to pick a single event, I’d probably pick pole vault, even though it’s kind of crazy. But it’s a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    If I was going to pick a single event, I’d probably pick pole vault, even though it’s kind of crazy. But it’s a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.
     
    Certainly seems to be the case for the women:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS7eE5W992A
    , @Triumph104
    I watched the entire women's pole vault competition on live stream. After seeing the reigning world champion and the reigning Olympic champion both get eliminated, it appears that pole vault is an event where PEDs play little to no role.
    , @International Jew
    We could shorten the time it takes to complete the decathlon and cut right to the chase if we reduced it to two events: shot put, and marathon.
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  43. @Merema
    Have you noticed that almost all the black runners whether they are from the West Indies or Africa are from former British colonies? You don't have too many black runners coming from say Brazil or Haiti, Senegal or Mali but lots from Kenya, Jamaica, Britain, Canada and of course the USA.

    I can not emphasize how the British emphasize track and field in their schools, and how they instilled a love for sports in their former subjects. Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.


    British sportsmanship is something else.

    There are famous missionary schools in Kenya where some Irish Brothers started track programs which kicked off the Kenyan running tradition of excellence .
    So it was one group of British colonials helping out another group

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    • Replies: @Merema
    Yep-St. Patrick High School.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colm_O%27Connell

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXN-kQZ04M
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  44. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ethiopia was never colonized, but significant number of schools were set-up with British and American help, and the two sports that were emphasized with track and field, and soccer.
     
    So how come they dominate in one, and go nowhere in the other? Soccer is basically nothing but endurance, so Ethiopians should wipe the rest of us out. But they, and their neighbors, can't qualify for the bloated World Cup even once.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. Football (or soccer for you Amerikaneers) isn’t the same as running for 90 mins on a straight line, it’s more like interval training. Footballers will sprint, jog, walk, or just stand during a match, and being able to do many 50m sprints and outrun your opponents for the first 70 minutes is much more valuable than not getting tired but never managing to reach the ball first.

    Besides, being skeleton-thin doesn’t help you at all in scrambles.

    There’s virtually no high-level Kenyan or Ethiopian footballer playing in the elite European leagues. Instead, a big majority of SSA players come from countries of West Africa, including those born/raised in European countries or holding European passports. And, guess what, on average they’re all fast and muscular!

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  45. @John Galt
    The media does have a thing for Bolt. It's just as bad on NBC.

    I also was amazed men's field hockey is an Olympic sport. What kind of fairies play field hockey?

    I doubt that there are many countries outside South Asia where field hockey gets any attention outside the Olympics .
    But that’s true for many ( most ? ) Olympic sports .

    I think that a lot of people consider the modern Olympics to be a bit girly and gay . I’m not sure that field hockey is anymore that way than, say, volleyball ( or lacrosse )

    Read More
    • Replies: @Numinous
    Watch a penalty corner (start watching at 1:25) being struck and defended and then tell me if field hockey is girly. (For those who don't know, it's a hard ball made of solid plastic.)
    , @Eric Novak
    Lacrosse is becoming a main sport in white urban and suburban high schools in the US. Middle class parents do not want their boys playing football, and girls like it more than basketball and volleyball.
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  46. @Steve Sailer
    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she's pushing 50.

    I see a lot of people online saying anabolic steroids prematurely age your face. Usain Bolt looked more like a guy on a lot of PEDs this time than previously, to me.

    He’s pointed out reasonably enough that he was very very fast before he could have plausibly been juicing, as a teenager. But that was four years before he started breaking records.

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  47. @Steve Sailer
    Usain and LeBron get their facials at the same spa: Wrinkles R Us.

    Actually, wouldn’t Bolt and James get their facials at We Be Wrinkles & Shit?

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    • LOL: IA
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  48. @John Galt
    The media does have a thing for Bolt. It's just as bad on NBC.

    I also was amazed men's field hockey is an Olympic sport. What kind of fairies play field hockey?

    its just in na that field hockey is femme, in the rest of the world it occupies a niche like lacrosse does here. Heck until the federation changed the turf to artificial, it Was the sport that India dominated like the usa dominated basketball.

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  49. @Erik Sieven
    I wonder which population is best suited for long distance olympic walking. Maybe East Africans could dominate in it like they do in long distance running, if they only tried. Maybe another set of skeletal mechanics, muscle structure etc. is best for this sport. But most likely it is just to much of a niche sport, and the main question for success is not so much talent but rather who has the crazy idea to compete in something like that.

    The mechanics are very different. High, skinny calves and narrow hips, for example, provide much less advantage than in running. I really don’t think that East Africans could dominate.

    Race walking is a very niche sport and not even a part of track & field in Sweden. I’ve never actually seen the event in real life and I have never met anyone who competes in it.

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  50. Ola says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    China came in 5th, 4th if you count the US disqualification, in the men's 4X100m relay, beating Brazil, Britain, and Trinidad.

    The baton passing part of relays may introduce an additional element that involves focus and concentration that downplays somewhat pure running ability relative to the non-relay running events. Mistakes with the handoffs and dropping the baton don't seem to be that uncommon.

    Not only the execution of the baton passing, also

    the running order
    the starting positions of runners 2, 3 and 4
    the position of the baton passing
    the free distance (the distance separating the two runners at the baton passing)

    all adds up to make a big difference and the Japanese team seems to have perfected most aspects. Very, very impressive.

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  51. Maybe one of the reasons that the Morrocans are good at middle distance running is because they have mountains that are suitable for training all year round.

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  52. I would be interested in the genetic makeup of 400 meter Gold medalist and new world record holder Wayde Van Niekerk. He is a member of South Africa’s Coloured group, a mixture of Dutch boys and Capoid girls, although other groups have crept into the mix over the years. Is his Y Chromosome something European, like R1b or I1, or something Negroid or even Capoid? It would be interesting for this discussion.

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  53. Did you notice who ran the anchor leg for the Japanese team?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asuka_Cambridge

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  54. @Anonymous
    The chart suggests that there should be a 600 meter event - it would appear to be a distance at which West Africans, Kenyans, and Europeans would be most competitive against each other.

    I agree that 600M would be an interesting event. I also think 300M is a nice race distance (which is occasionally run).

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  55. @Rosh
    Will this be the first Olympics were blacks win every track event with the exception of the ridiculous walk races? Did that happen in any previous Olympics?

    If it weren’t for Caster the man running in the 800 meter final later, there’d be pretty good chance that one of the white women would win. Only 3 out of the 8 finalists are black. 2nd fastest semifinal time was a British woman.

    And to be fair, whites medaled in the 200 meter. I can’t remember that happening recently.

    The Olympics ought to have a 4 X 800 relay. They have that event in high school/college.

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  56. @TelfoedJohn
    I wonder what distance (or sport) would be most fair to people accross different racial backgrounds. Perhaps the Decathlon or Pentathlon, since the racial differences are balanced by the variety of sports.

    Isn’t that like dumbing down firefighting tests and such?

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  57. “The differences between East Africans and West Africans are often overemphasized.”

    I agree, I think that steroids would likely help East Africans run faster in sprints. For instance possibly the most muscular Australian Rules player is of Sudanese descent and he won a sprinting competition. You wouldn’t expect an unusually muscular white athlete to do the same.

    I would imagine that muscle fiber types varies within a population and some people would have unbalanced ratios. But this really doesn’t seem to be the case with African Americans. I can’t think of an example of a West African american who had good running structure, more slow twitch muscle and then found success in endurance running.

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  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    So the Japanese are methodical, but the Jamaicans like Bolt are slacker goofballs? Seems like top down speculation bereft of empirical data, at best. Bolt looks kind of focused and methodical in these training videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEIxpcYukqc

    Also, how would Japanese men outrun almost all West African descended men in the 2016 4 x 100 if they are at such a genetic disadvantage?

    How did the White culture produce a Bronze medalist (2% behind the gold medalist) in the 200M if they are at such a genetic disadvantage to Blacks?

    How did the white culture produce a man (Galen Rupp) in the 2016 10000M who was only 0.25% behind the Black gold medalist if they are at such a genetic disadvantage to Blacks?

    Women and children are clearly at a significant genetic disadvantage to men. And they don’t show up in the Olympic Finals and compete well against men. Ever. Elite women are roughly 15% slower than elite men.

    So what is the level of genetic disadvantage of White or Asian men to Black men in the sprints or middle distance events or long distance events? Looking at the percentage by race in the top 200 all time of events is not the clearest way to answer this question (though it’s an interesting analysis in its own right). For example, White culture produced a 400M runner (Wariner) who is only about 1% slower than the best Black 400M runner of all time (Wayde), and only 3 Blacks have ever run faster than Wariner. That is one example which would seem to cast serious doubt on the idea of substantial Black genetic superiority even if they do hold a large majority of best times.

    Trying to estimate population differences of races by looking mostly at just the extreme outliers (which is what pro athletes are) is not really the right way to discern the genetic level of ability at say the population median, 1 sd, 2sd, levels. You need to measure the untrained populations at those levels. This is especially true in areas like pro athletics where it’s really just a winner take all game and not really an integral part of the modern economy.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Steve has pointed out that when PED use was highly unlikely whites and blacks equally won sprints. Now it is just a question of whether blacks receive more benefits from PEDs than whites. Once the American men started getting caught doping Americans stopped winning gold.

    Of course Bolt is going to be seen working hard with cameras around. If they filmed you at work you would know not to hang out at the water cooler.
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  59. @Anonymous
    "Trump Adviser Reportedly Boasted About Firing Jews, Denied Holocaust "

    http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.737696

    A foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump allegedly boasted about firing Jews from his government department and denied the Holocaust to a colleague.
     

    Reading the whole article, this is made by one guy complaining about being fired quoting another guy complaining about being fired. On the other hand, his dad seems to have been fond of IHR, so it’s vaguely credible. The evidence seems too limited for me to get excited one way or the other.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    his dad seems to have been fond of IHR
     
    Which was probably found out about this guy, and this gave the idea how to smear him.
    , @reiner Tor
    In any event, how credible is it that in Rummie's Pentagon (with Wolfowitz his deputy and the whole leadership full of neocons) you would find a high-ranking official openly denying the holocaust and loudly bragging about having fired all Jews?

    I'm not asking whether there were some relatively high-ranking people who were Jew-haters and held those beliefs about the holocaust, there might have been, the question is how many of them might have been so idiotic to talk about these things openly and still kept their jobs for several years?
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  60. @SFG
    Reading the whole article, this is made by one guy complaining about being fired quoting another guy complaining about being fired. On the other hand, his dad seems to have been fond of IHR, so it's vaguely credible. The evidence seems too limited for me to get excited one way or the other.

    his dad seems to have been fond of IHR

    Which was probably found out about this guy, and this gave the idea how to smear him.

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  61. Juantorena has morphed into Leif Erickson from the High Chaparral.

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  62. @SFG
    Reading the whole article, this is made by one guy complaining about being fired quoting another guy complaining about being fired. On the other hand, his dad seems to have been fond of IHR, so it's vaguely credible. The evidence seems too limited for me to get excited one way or the other.

    In any event, how credible is it that in Rummie’s Pentagon (with Wolfowitz his deputy and the whole leadership full of neocons) you would find a high-ranking official openly denying the holocaust and loudly bragging about having fired all Jews?

    I’m not asking whether there were some relatively high-ranking people who were Jew-haters and held those beliefs about the holocaust, there might have been, the question is how many of them might have been so idiotic to talk about these things openly and still kept their jobs for several years?

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Oh, and how many of these Jew-haters would be comfortable in the Trump campaign, what with Trump's Orthodox Jewish son-in-law wielding influence in it?
    , @Anonymous
    Rumsfeld isn't Jewish and he's actually not a neocon. He also supports Trump.

    The Pentagon is a huge bureaucracy, with political appointees and regular employees.
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  63. @Steve Sailer
    Especially for the American men, who have only won the Olympics once since Carl Lewis was their anchorman.

    The US men’s 4×100 team seems to always find a new and interesting way to lose the final to some island nation. Now we can’t even beat Canada and Japan. Smh.

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  64. @John Galt
    The media does have a thing for Bolt. It's just as bad on NBC.

    I also was amazed men's field hockey is an Olympic sport. What kind of fairies play field hockey?

    What problem do you have with field hockey? And it’s been an Olympic sport forever. Lots of countries play it, far more than play ice hockey. It’s also a real “sport”, which is more than could be said about dressage or synchronized gymnastics.

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    • Replies: @John Galt
    Yea I'm probably displaying American bias, but i can't help it. The number of countries that play a sport doesn't say much about it. American football is far superior to soccer. The majority of people who play soccer in the USA are SWPL types and central Americans.
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  65. I’m surprised Steve hasn’t written about the Eaton’s. US husband wins decathlon gold, Canadian wife wins heptathlon bronze.

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  66. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of decathlete gold medalists have been half black: Daley Thompson twice, Dan O'Brien, Bryan Clay (half Japanese), and Ashton Eaton twice. That's six of the last ten gold medalists. Since WWII, there have been two blacks (Milt Campbell and Rafer Johnson) and the rest white. The silver medalist this year was a Nordic looking Frenchman.

    So the decathlon seems quite racially balanced between black and white skills. And decathletes tend to look like what you picture your athletic champ to look like, whereas so many these days are so specialized for their events they look kind of funny.

    Of course, it's pretty unwieldy and goes on for two long days, leaving the champion pretty exhausted at the end when he's being interviewed. When I saw it in 1984, the 8th event, the pole vault took forever and the German contender got sunstroke (he wasn't wearing sunglasses, which was big mistake).

    If I was going to pick a single event, I'd probably pick pole vault, even though it's kind of crazy. But it's a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.

    If I was going to pick a single event, I’d probably pick pole vault, even though it’s kind of crazy. But it’s a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.

    Certainly seems to be the case for the women:

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  67. @reiner Tor
    In any event, how credible is it that in Rummie's Pentagon (with Wolfowitz his deputy and the whole leadership full of neocons) you would find a high-ranking official openly denying the holocaust and loudly bragging about having fired all Jews?

    I'm not asking whether there were some relatively high-ranking people who were Jew-haters and held those beliefs about the holocaust, there might have been, the question is how many of them might have been so idiotic to talk about these things openly and still kept their jobs for several years?

    Oh, and how many of these Jew-haters would be comfortable in the Trump campaign, what with Trump’s Orthodox Jewish son-in-law wielding influence in it?

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    • Replies: @SFG
    You can have disparate groups pursuing the same goals--the alt-right of Happy Merchant fame is behind Trump despite all these facts, largely because they think he's their best chance to decrease immigration before Hillary ramps it up for 4 years (and I agree). Heck, the GOP was serving God and Mammon pretty successfully for a while.

    Personally I think Haaretz really, really hates Trump for ideological reasons (he reminds them of the nationalist politicians they hate in Israel), and is pulling out all the stops to try to mobilize more (American) Jews against him, trying to get opposition from 90% to 99%. Given what we now know about the Android and iPhones, I'm guessing the famous star tweet was Trump looking at a meme he liked and not thinking about the shapes of all the parts of it too hard. A lot of is somewhat ridiculous (Trump using antisemitism as a reserve prejudice to succeed in an American election?). The guy also has the fantasy that American Jews are going to come over and turn Israel back into a lefty-Ashkenazi wonderland:

    http://forward.com/opinion/335553/how-donald-trump-scared-the-jews-won-the-election-and-saved-israel-this-is/

    (Ignoring the fact that without any American Jews influencing the US government, it would probably just abandon Israel to be destroyed by the Arabs.)

    I don't want to spend too much time on what are literally third-hand allegations (though 4 posts on your part deserve 4 paragraphs of reply), but there was a strong preference in the State Dept. for a while to favor the Arabs over Israelis for Realpolitik reasons (oil, oil, and oil)--which is quite sensible, really. So I can believe there were people in the Pentagon who thought that way. Of course some of them probably had a desire to sell and test their toys, and Israel gives them a chance to do that.

    An actual Trump administration (it seems to be receding by the day) would probably just deport illegal immigrants and decrease Muslim immigration...neither of which I have a problem with. The country in general could use an immigration 'break'. We have always had these after periods of high immigration until recently. And, you know, until multiculturalism, it worked.

    , @Anonymous
    According to what they say and write online, they'd be very comfortable since they say Trump overall coincides with their goals.
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  68. Back in my school days coaches used to mention floating v driving sprint styles.

    It’s possible that relatively light Japanese sprinters can get close to the best times that can be achieved with a floating style.

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  69. @Anonymous
    The chart suggests that there should be a 600 meter event - it would appear to be a distance at which West Africans, Kenyans, and Europeans would be most competitive against each other.

    High school indoor track, at least in Massachusetts, has a 600 meter event.

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  70. Why are Syrians such slow runners, compared to Irish, English, or Nordic?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Why are Syrians such slow runners, compared to Irish, English, or Nordic?"

    Arabs in general are not known for being the gold standard of athleticism.

    They have more Sub Saharan African admixture than Europeans and East Asians yet still perform worst than them in Olympic sports.
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  71. @Anonymous
    "Trump Adviser Reportedly Boasted About Firing Jews, Denied Holocaust "

    http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.737696

    A foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump allegedly boasted about firing Jews from his government department and denied the Holocaust to a colleague.
     

    As the (((Japanese))) are fond of saying, “If all you have is a hammer, pretty soon the whole world begins to look like a nail.” Irrespective of which of the 17 Republican candidates won the primary, they were going to have to run the gauntlet of being accused of sexism and racism. Even Jeb would have been painted as some type of Klan member or campus rapist. The left has to reconcile themselves to the fact that they have had a 70 uninterrupted winning streak in the West but that will be over both in the US and Europe within one or two election cycles. Enjoy it while it lasts.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    Yeah, they spent so much time accusing everyone of being a closeted Klansman nobody can take them seriously when they actually do find a guy who's kind of utilizing white identity politics. Boy who cried Adolf, etc.
    , @Jefferson
    "Irrespective of which of the 17 Republican candidates won the primary, they were going to have to run the gauntlet of being accused of sexism and racism. Even Jeb would have been painted as some type of Klan member or campus rapist."

    George W. Bush was accused by the Left of being a racist against Nonwhite people during his 8 years in office, even though he had people like Alberto Gonzales and Condoleezza Rice in his administration.

    The Black Lies Matter rally in Salt Lake City, Utah had more White people than the Bush administration, lol.
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  72. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of decathlete gold medalists have been half black: Daley Thompson twice, Dan O'Brien, Bryan Clay (half Japanese), and Ashton Eaton twice. That's six of the last ten gold medalists. Since WWII, there have been two blacks (Milt Campbell and Rafer Johnson) and the rest white. The silver medalist this year was a Nordic looking Frenchman.

    So the decathlon seems quite racially balanced between black and white skills. And decathletes tend to look like what you picture your athletic champ to look like, whereas so many these days are so specialized for their events they look kind of funny.

    Of course, it's pretty unwieldy and goes on for two long days, leaving the champion pretty exhausted at the end when he's being interviewed. When I saw it in 1984, the 8th event, the pole vault took forever and the German contender got sunstroke (he wasn't wearing sunglasses, which was big mistake).

    If I was going to pick a single event, I'd probably pick pole vault, even though it's kind of crazy. But it's a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.

    I watched the entire women’s pole vault competition on live stream. After seeing the reigning world champion and the reigning Olympic champion both get eliminated, it appears that pole vault is an event where PEDs play little to no role.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Silver medalist Sandi Morris (US) and bronze medalist Eliza McCartney (NZ) are both very easy on the eyes!
    , @Ola
    PEDs are extremely useful for pole vaulting. But (to use the language of out host) women's pole vault is still at the beach volleyball stage. That's why some of the medalists get away with a higher body fat percentage than in the rest of the jumping and sprinting events. The world record is not on par with the rest of the world records.

    Eventually, the witch doctors should take over the pole vault too.
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  73. @reiner Tor
    Oh, and how many of these Jew-haters would be comfortable in the Trump campaign, what with Trump's Orthodox Jewish son-in-law wielding influence in it?

    You can have disparate groups pursuing the same goals–the alt-right of Happy Merchant fame is behind Trump despite all these facts, largely because they think he’s their best chance to decrease immigration before Hillary ramps it up for 4 years (and I agree). Heck, the GOP was serving God and Mammon pretty successfully for a while.

    Personally I think Haaretz really, really hates Trump for ideological reasons (he reminds them of the nationalist politicians they hate in Israel), and is pulling out all the stops to try to mobilize more (American) Jews against him, trying to get opposition from 90% to 99%. Given what we now know about the Android and iPhones, I’m guessing the famous star tweet was Trump looking at a meme he liked and not thinking about the shapes of all the parts of it too hard. A lot of is somewhat ridiculous (Trump using antisemitism as a reserve prejudice to succeed in an American election?). The guy also has the fantasy that American Jews are going to come over and turn Israel back into a lefty-Ashkenazi wonderland:

    http://forward.com/opinion/335553/how-donald-trump-scared-the-jews-won-the-election-and-saved-israel-this-is/

    (Ignoring the fact that without any American Jews influencing the US government, it would probably just abandon Israel to be destroyed by the Arabs.)

    I don’t want to spend too much time on what are literally third-hand allegations (though 4 posts on your part deserve 4 paragraphs of reply), but there was a strong preference in the State Dept. for a while to favor the Arabs over Israelis for Realpolitik reasons (oil, oil, and oil)–which is quite sensible, really. So I can believe there were people in the Pentagon who thought that way. Of course some of them probably had a desire to sell and test their toys, and Israel gives them a chance to do that.

    An actual Trump administration (it seems to be receding by the day) would probably just deport illegal immigrants and decrease Muslim immigration…neither of which I have a problem with. The country in general could use an immigration ‘break’. We have always had these after periods of high immigration until recently. And, you know, until multiculturalism, it worked.

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    • Replies: @Eric Novak
    You're being led around like a dummy by polling. Trump's numbers are back as of this weekend.
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  74. @Erik Sieven
    I wonder which population is best suited for long distance olympic walking. Maybe East Africans could dominate in it like they do in long distance running, if they only tried. Maybe another set of skeletal mechanics, muscle structure etc. is best for this sport. But most likely it is just to much of a niche sport, and the main question for success is not so much talent but rather who has the crazy idea to compete in something like that.

    I tried watching all of the men’s 50km race walk. However, I started watching late on tape delay and about an hour before I got to the end CBC was sending popups about the saga of a Canadian finisher so I gave up.

    Race walking, 50km at least, and women’s marathon have the same problem with the top contenders getting injured in the race and not finishing. They hardly get to compete because of the lengthy recovery time between races. In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official’s naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye.) These sports are too much effort for too little payoff.

    Alex Schwazer, the Italian 2008 Olympic gold medalist in the 50km walk, was banned from the 2012 Olympics for doping and earlier this year was banned another eight years. He had also dodged testers when they came to his home.

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    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    "In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official’s naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye."
    being the crumbum I am, I looked at the wiki pages of some of the contesters in the walking discipline a few days ago, among them 20 km winner Wang Zhen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Zhen_(athlete)
    the funny thing: as far as I see both of the walkers in the picture in this wiki article have both of their feet in their air.
    When this is some kind of representative picture this sport really has a problem with the implantation of its rules.
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  75. @Numinous
    What problem do you have with field hockey? And it's been an Olympic sport forever. Lots of countries play it, far more than play ice hockey. It's also a real "sport", which is more than could be said about dressage or synchronized gymnastics.

    Yea I’m probably displaying American bias, but i can’t help it. The number of countries that play a sport doesn’t say much about it. American football is far superior to soccer. The majority of people who play soccer in the USA are SWPL types and central Americans.

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  76. @Prof. Woland
    As the (((Japanese))) are fond of saying, "If all you have is a hammer, pretty soon the whole world begins to look like a nail." Irrespective of which of the 17 Republican candidates won the primary, they were going to have to run the gauntlet of being accused of sexism and racism. Even Jeb would have been painted as some type of Klan member or campus rapist. The left has to reconcile themselves to the fact that they have had a 70 uninterrupted winning streak in the West but that will be over both in the US and Europe within one or two election cycles. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    Yeah, they spent so much time accusing everyone of being a closeted Klansman nobody can take them seriously when they actually do find a guy who’s kind of utilizing white identity politics. Boy who cried Adolf, etc.

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    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    It is journey, not the destination. If Trump wins, it will be because he successfully found a way around the MSM and (((traditional))) donors which is what makes them so nervous. I don't know anyone who thinks Trump will actually harm anyone. The real danger is if he can do it, so can others and that is unacceptable.
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  77. @Anonymous
    So the Japanese are methodical, but the Jamaicans like Bolt are slacker goofballs? Seems like top down speculation bereft of empirical data, at best. Bolt looks kind of focused and methodical in these training videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJDi2UyMR4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEIxpcYukqc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5MapAGaP0

    Also, how would Japanese men outrun almost all West African descended men in the 2016 4 x 100 if they are at such a genetic disadvantage?

    How did the White culture produce a Bronze medalist (2% behind the gold medalist) in the 200M if they are at such a genetic disadvantage to Blacks?

    How did the white culture produce a man (Galen Rupp) in the 2016 10000M who was only 0.25% behind the Black gold medalist if they are at such a genetic disadvantage to Blacks?

    Women and children are clearly at a significant genetic disadvantage to men. And they don't show up in the Olympic Finals and compete well against men. Ever. Elite women are roughly 15% slower than elite men.

    So what is the level of genetic disadvantage of White or Asian men to Black men in the sprints or middle distance events or long distance events? Looking at the percentage by race in the top 200 all time of events is not the clearest way to answer this question (though it's an interesting analysis in its own right). For example, White culture produced a 400M runner (Wariner) who is only about 1% slower than the best Black 400M runner of all time (Wayde), and only 3 Blacks have ever run faster than Wariner. That is one example which would seem to cast serious doubt on the idea of substantial Black genetic superiority even if they do hold a large majority of best times.

    Trying to estimate population differences of races by looking mostly at just the extreme outliers (which is what pro athletes are) is not really the right way to discern the genetic level of ability at say the population median, 1 sd, 2sd, levels. You need to measure the untrained populations at those levels. This is especially true in areas like pro athletics where it's really just a winner take all game and not really an integral part of the modern economy.

    Steve has pointed out that when PED use was highly unlikely whites and blacks equally won sprints. Now it is just a question of whether blacks receive more benefits from PEDs than whites. Once the American men started getting caught doping Americans stopped winning gold.

    Of course Bolt is going to be seen working hard with cameras around. If they filmed you at work you would know not to hang out at the water cooler.

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  78. @reiner Tor
    In any event, how credible is it that in Rummie's Pentagon (with Wolfowitz his deputy and the whole leadership full of neocons) you would find a high-ranking official openly denying the holocaust and loudly bragging about having fired all Jews?

    I'm not asking whether there were some relatively high-ranking people who were Jew-haters and held those beliefs about the holocaust, there might have been, the question is how many of them might have been so idiotic to talk about these things openly and still kept their jobs for several years?

    Rumsfeld isn’t Jewish and he’s actually not a neocon. He also supports Trump.

    The Pentagon is a huge bureaucracy, with political appointees and regular employees.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I never wrote Rumsfeld was Jewish. He didn't quite endorse Trump, just said Hillary would surely be a disaster, whereas Trump was a "known unknown".

    I questioned the "bragged about firing all the Jews" and "openly denying the holocaust" parts. How many such people there could've been back then?
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  79. @reiner Tor
    Oh, and how many of these Jew-haters would be comfortable in the Trump campaign, what with Trump's Orthodox Jewish son-in-law wielding influence in it?

    According to what they say and write online, they’d be very comfortable since they say Trump overall coincides with their goals.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Does the "they" in your sentence refer to people who hate Jews so much they'd risk their careers by loudly bragging about having fired all Jews and explaining to colleagues at work about how the gas chambers didn't exist? Would they not risk their careers as part of the Trump team by doing the exact same thing?

    By the way places further to the right of iSteve don't like Trump much, thinking he'd be an "American Putin" (I think Gregory Hood wrote that), who is still a multiculturalist, but at least no an anti-white multiculturalist, which from a WN point of view might even be worse, because it'd delay or - worse - prevent the White Awakening.
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  80. @sb
    I doubt that there are many countries outside South Asia where field hockey gets any attention outside the Olympics .
    But that's true for many ( most ? ) Olympic sports .

    I think that a lot of people consider the modern Olympics to be a bit girly and gay . I'm not sure that field hockey is anymore that way than, say, volleyball ( or lacrosse )

    Watch a penalty corner (start watching at 1:25) being struck and defended and then tell me if field hockey is girly. (For those who don’t know, it’s a hard ball made of solid plastic.)

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Field hockey is a better game than team handball, which makes the goalie look dorky and ineffectual.

    When I saw field hockey in the 1984 Olympics, there were too many play stoppages due to offsides, but perhaps they improved those rules since then to keep the game moving.

    , @Brutusale
    Another sport where, like ice hockey, the men and the women play entirely different games. Guarding the goal post on a corner set play isn't for the faint of heart.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Any variety of shinty/camanachd or hurling can degerate into a spectacular and unedifying mess fairly rapidly, if played by men (don't watch the whole thing, it's pretty tedious to non-Gaels, just a few minutes will do). Sort of competitive mob-golf, with heavier gear. Fine, if you never had any teeth to begin with, and don't mind a month off work.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIgSRQ1pTWs
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  81. @Steve Sailer
    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she's pushing 50.

    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she’s pushing 50.

    Yeah. Bolt’s prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I’ve read, prolonged use is bad for the skin

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    • Agree: JohnnyWalker123
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Yeah. Bolt’s prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I’ve read, prolonged use is bad for the skin"

    Another thing that cracks Negro skin at an early age besides steroids is heavy drug use. Look at Snoop Dogg for example, he looks a lot older than 44 which is his current age.

    If you go to the Skid Row area of any big racially diverse American city, you will see the Black junkies all have a lot of wrinkles on their face and the vast majority of them are not even old enough to join AARP.

    , @Jefferson
    “Yeah. Bolt’s prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I’ve read, prolonged use is bad for the skin”

    Another thing that cracks Negro skin at an early age besides steroids is heavy drug use. Look at Snoop Dogg for example, he looks a lot older than 44 which is his current age.

    If you go to the Skid Row area of any big racially diverse American city, you will see the Black junkies all have a lot of wrinkles on their face and the vast majority of them are not even old enough to join AARP.

    It's hard to believe that wrinkled face Snoop Dogg and baby face Marco Rubio are the same age.
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  82. @SFG
    Yeah, they spent so much time accusing everyone of being a closeted Klansman nobody can take them seriously when they actually do find a guy who's kind of utilizing white identity politics. Boy who cried Adolf, etc.

    It is journey, not the destination. If Trump wins, it will be because he successfully found a way around the MSM and (((traditional))) donors which is what makes them so nervous. I don’t know anyone who thinks Trump will actually harm anyone. The real danger is if he can do it, so can others and that is unacceptable.

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  83. @wren
    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Also, here is the speed skating progression.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_100_metres_world_record_progression

    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).

    At the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Japan won both gold and silver in the Marathon. Both runners, however, were Koreans as Korea was under Japanese occupation at the time.

    Great Britain took silver.

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    • Replies: @wren
    There have been plenty of Japanese marathon record holders over the years, and quite a few Koreans, too. Obviously, the DNA is not too different.

    The surprising thing to me is how many British show up as well.

    Something to do with islands? Empires? Monarchs?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_world_record_progression

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  84. @sb
    There are famous missionary schools in Kenya where some Irish Brothers started track programs which kicked off the Kenyan running tradition of excellence .
    So it was one group of British colonials helping out another group
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  85. @lambdaphagy
    Edit: Same story for Julian Walsh, who is the son of reggae drummer Emanuel Walsh. One begins to wonder just how much of Japan's T&F delegation is half-Jamaican.

    Wonder no more. See for yourself.

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  86. @Prof. Woland
    As the (((Japanese))) are fond of saying, "If all you have is a hammer, pretty soon the whole world begins to look like a nail." Irrespective of which of the 17 Republican candidates won the primary, they were going to have to run the gauntlet of being accused of sexism and racism. Even Jeb would have been painted as some type of Klan member or campus rapist. The left has to reconcile themselves to the fact that they have had a 70 uninterrupted winning streak in the West but that will be over both in the US and Europe within one or two election cycles. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    “Irrespective of which of the 17 Republican candidates won the primary, they were going to have to run the gauntlet of being accused of sexism and racism. Even Jeb would have been painted as some type of Klan member or campus rapist.”

    George W. Bush was accused by the Left of being a racist against Nonwhite people during his 8 years in office, even though he had people like Alberto Gonzales and Condoleezza Rice in his administration.

    The Black Lies Matter rally in Salt Lake City, Utah had more White people than the Bush administration, lol.

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  87. @Twinkie

    It looks like Jesse Owens in 1936 beat a world record that was held by a Japanese (and some others).
     
    At the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Japan won both gold and silver in the Marathon. Both runners, however, were Koreans as Korea was under Japanese occupation at the time.

    Great Britain took silver.

    There have been plenty of Japanese marathon record holders over the years, and quite a few Koreans, too. Obviously, the DNA is not too different.

    The surprising thing to me is how many British show up as well.

    Something to do with islands? Empires? Monarchs?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_world_record_progression

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    There have been plenty of Japanese marathon record holders over the years, and quite a few Koreans, too. Obviously, the DNA is not too different.
     
    I am not a geneticist, but I think Koreans and Japaneses do have significant differences - Japanese are much more Southeast Asian agriculturalist-like genetically from what I read while Koreans are much more "North Asian hunter-gatherer" descended.

    Koreans have done better than Japanese in Olympic Marathon, with the former earning 2 gold medals (Berlin 1936; Barcelona 1992), 1 silver (Atlanta 1996), and 1 bronze (Berlin 1936) and the latter earning 2 silver (Mexico City 1968; Atlanta 1996) and 1 bronze (Tokyo 1964).*

    *Officially, the Korean medals in the 1936 Berlin Games are creditd to Japan, because Japan had annexed Korea by that time although the semi-official athlete profiles were changed eventually from Japanese to Korean for those medalists.

    At the Boston Marathon, Japanese have done better, producing 8 winners over the years (1951; 1953; 1955; 1965; 1966; 1969; 1981; 1987) while Koreans won 3 times (1947; 1950; 2001).*

    *From 1991 to 2004, every winner was a Kenyan except one year - in 2001 - when a Korean won. Subsequently Kenyans also won 6 out of 8 races, with Ethiopians winning the other 2 races.

    Interestingly Chinese are almost completely absent among winners of these races, except for a lone bronze medal at the 2008 Bejiing Games.
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  88. @metoo
    Why are Syrians such slow runners, compared to Irish, English, or Nordic?

    “Why are Syrians such slow runners, compared to Irish, English, or Nordic?”

    Arabs in general are not known for being the gold standard of athleticism.

    They have more Sub Saharan African admixture than Europeans and East Asians yet still perform worst than them in Olympic sports.

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    • Replies: @metoo
    Your logic is impeccable.
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  89. @syonredux

    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she’s pushing 50.
     
    Yeah. Bolt's prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I've read, prolonged use is bad for the skin

    “Yeah. Bolt’s prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I’ve read, prolonged use is bad for the skin”

    Another thing that cracks Negro skin at an early age besides steroids is heavy drug use. Look at Snoop Dogg for example, he looks a lot older than 44 which is his current age.

    If you go to the Skid Row area of any big racially diverse American city, you will see the Black junkies all have a lot of wrinkles on their face and the vast majority of them are not even old enough to join AARP.

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  90. @syonredux

    Leslie Jones looks younger than Usain and she’s pushing 50.
     
    Yeah. Bolt's prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I've read, prolonged use is bad for the skin

    “Yeah. Bolt’s prematurely aged visage might be a sign of steroids. From what I’ve read, prolonged use is bad for the skin”

    Another thing that cracks Negro skin at an early age besides steroids is heavy drug use. Look at Snoop Dogg for example, he looks a lot older than 44 which is his current age.

    If you go to the Skid Row area of any big racially diverse American city, you will see the Black junkies all have a lot of wrinkles on their face and the vast majority of them are not even old enough to join AARP.

    It’s hard to believe that wrinkled face Snoop Dogg and baby face Marco Rubio are the same age.

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  91. @Numinous
    Watch a penalty corner (start watching at 1:25) being struck and defended and then tell me if field hockey is girly. (For those who don't know, it's a hard ball made of solid plastic.)

    Field hockey is a better game than team handball, which makes the goalie look dorky and ineffectual.

    When I saw field hockey in the 1984 Olympics, there were too many play stoppages due to offsides, but perhaps they improved those rules since then to keep the game moving.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Right, handball goalies always have their arms spread out and do this kick type move to try to block the shot with their leg. It looks ridiculous and never works.
    , @Numinous

    there were too many play stoppages due to offsides
     
    I remember those days too (barely, as I was a kid), but the offside rule was abolished in field hockey sometime in the mid-90s. The game has indeed become much faster since then, and goalless draws are extremely rare, 3+ goals/match being the norm these days.
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  92. @Jefferson
    "Why are Syrians such slow runners, compared to Irish, English, or Nordic?"

    Arabs in general are not known for being the gold standard of athleticism.

    They have more Sub Saharan African admixture than Europeans and East Asians yet still perform worst than them in Olympic sports.

    Your logic is impeccable.

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  93. @Steve Sailer
    Field hockey is a better game than team handball, which makes the goalie look dorky and ineffectual.

    When I saw field hockey in the 1984 Olympics, there were too many play stoppages due to offsides, but perhaps they improved those rules since then to keep the game moving.

    Right, handball goalies always have their arms spread out and do this kick type move to try to block the shot with their leg. It looks ridiculous and never works.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Handball goalies should get to hold a tennis racket?
    , @BB753
    Sometimes it works. To be sure, handball goalies get the short end of the stick in what is otherwise a thoroughly enjoyable game to play ( for field players). Back in my salad days, I used to play some handball, both as a goalkeeper and field player. In my opinion, the only way to improve the goalie's chances to stop goals is to enlarge the 20 ft goal area (which players cannot set foot upon) and the whole pitch ( or court as they call it) accordingly, from 131 ft long to, say 155 feet. According to current regulations, the court is IMHO far too wide (66 ft or 20 meters) and too short ( 131 ft or 50 meters) . Which is why the goalie is virtually powerless and the rallies far too short.
    Even so, I find the game more demanding and interesting to watch than volleyball.
    , @Anonymous
    Also the pajama type outfits they wear make them look even more stupid.
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  94. @Anonymous
    Right, handball goalies always have their arms spread out and do this kick type move to try to block the shot with their leg. It looks ridiculous and never works.

    Handball goalies should get to hold a tennis racket?

    Read More
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  95. @Anonymous
    Right, handball goalies always have their arms spread out and do this kick type move to try to block the shot with their leg. It looks ridiculous and never works.

    Sometimes it works. To be sure, handball goalies get the short end of the stick in what is otherwise a thoroughly enjoyable game to play ( for field players). Back in my salad days, I used to play some handball, both as a goalkeeper and field player. In my opinion, the only way to improve the goalie’s chances to stop goals is to enlarge the 20 ft goal area (which players cannot set foot upon) and the whole pitch ( or court as they call it) accordingly, from 131 ft long to, say 155 feet. According to current regulations, the court is IMHO far too wide (66 ft or 20 meters) and too short ( 131 ft or 50 meters) . Which is why the goalie is virtually powerless and the rallies far too short.
    Even so, I find the game more demanding and interesting to watch than volleyball.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's not a bad game. It looks like fun to play and good exercise. Though the game seems better in theory as a spectator sport than it is in practice. Seems like it could be tweaked and experimented with to make it better.

    Maybe the ball could be bigger? The ball is quite small. That seems to be why the goalies are so useless. The goalies are probably primarily worried about getting hit in the face rather than blocking shots. The shooters run and jump and launch themselves towards the goal before chucking the softball sized ball at the goal.
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  96. anon • Disclaimer says:

    My guess is that some number of Japanese just really like sprinting and go about being good at it in a methodical fashion. But I don’t know — there’s nothing much on Google in English about Japanese sprinting.

    I wonder if there’s a regional or Ainu aspect to where their good sprinters come from?

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  97. Centrowitz just won the 1500. (Is he Jewish?) Europeans have a surprising number of slots in the progression of world best times right up until 1985. Last world record set in 1998 (if Wikipedia is correct) which suggests doping:

    Time Auto Athlete Date Place
    3:55.8 Abel Kiviat (USA) 1912-06-08 Cambridge, Massachusetts, United States
    3:54.7 John Zander (SWE) 1917-08-05 Stockholm, Sweden
    3:52.6 Paavo Nurmi (FIN) 1924-06-19 Helsinki, Finland
    3:51.0 Otto Peltzer (GER) 1926-09-11 Berlin, Germany
    3:49.2 Jules Ladoumegue (FRA) 1930-10-05 Paris, France
    3:49.2 Luigi Beccali (ITA) 1933-09-09 Turin, Italy
    3:49.0 Luigi Beccali (ITA) 1933-09-17 Milan, Italy
    3:48.8 Bill Bonthron (USA) 1934-06-30 Milwaukee, United States
    3:47.8 Jack Lovelock (NZL) 1936-08-06 Berlin, Germany
    3:47.6 Gunder Hägg (SWE) 1941-08-10 Stockholm, Sweden
    3:45.8 Gunder Hägg (SWE) 1942-07-17 Stockholm, Sweden
    3:45.0 Arne Andersson (SWE) 1943-08-17 Gothenburg, Sweden
    3:43.0 Gunder Hägg (SWE) 1944-07-07 Gothenburg, Sweden
    3:43.0 Lennart Strand (SWE) 1947-07-15 Malmö, Sweden
    3:43.0 Werner Lueg (FRG) 1952-06-29 Berlin, Germany
    3:42.8+ Wes Santee (USA) 1954-06-04 Compton, United States
    3:41.8+ John Landy (AUS) 1954-06-21 Turku, Finland
    3:40.8 Sándor Iharos (HUN) 1955-07-28 Helsinki, Finland
    3:40.8 László Tábori (HUN) 1955-09-06 Oslo, Norway
    3:40.8 Gunnar Nielsen (DEN) 1955-09-06 Oslo, Norway
    3:40.6 István Rózsavölgyi (HUN) 1956-08-03 Tata, Hungary
    3:40.2 Olavi Salsola (FIN) 1957-07-11 Turku, Finland
    3:40.2 Olavi Salonen (FIN) 1957-07-11 Turku, Finland
    3:38.1 Stanislav Jungwirth (TCH) 1957-07-12 Stará Boleslav, Czechoslovakia
    3:36.0 Herb Elliott (AUS) 1958-08-28 Gothenburg, Sweden
    3:35.6 Herb Elliott (AUS) 1960-09-06 Rome, Italy
    3:33.1 Jim Ryun (USA) 1967-07-08 Los Angeles, United States
    3:32.2 3:32.16 Filbert Bayi (TAN) 1974-02-02 Christchurch, New Zealand
    3:32.1 3:32.03 Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1979-08-15 Zürich, Switzerland
    3:32.1 3:32.09 Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-07-15 Oslo, Norway
    3:31.4 3:31.36 Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-08-27 Koblenz, West Germany
    3:31.24 Sydney Maree (USA) 1983-08-28 Cologne, West Germany
    3:30.77 Steve Ovett (GBR) 1983-09-04 Rieti, Italy
    3:29.67 Steve Cram (GBR) 1985-07-16 Nice, France
    3:29.46 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-08-23 Berlin, Germany
    3:28.86 Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1992-09-06 Rieti, Italy
    3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1995-07-12 Nice, France
    3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) 1998-07-14 Rome, Italy

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  98. @Anonymous
    Right, handball goalies always have their arms spread out and do this kick type move to try to block the shot with their leg. It looks ridiculous and never works.

    Also the pajama type outfits they wear make them look even more stupid.

    Read More
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  99. @sb
    I doubt that there are many countries outside South Asia where field hockey gets any attention outside the Olympics .
    But that's true for many ( most ? ) Olympic sports .

    I think that a lot of people consider the modern Olympics to be a bit girly and gay . I'm not sure that field hockey is anymore that way than, say, volleyball ( or lacrosse )

    Lacrosse is becoming a main sport in white urban and suburban high schools in the US. Middle class parents do not want their boys playing football, and girls like it more than basketball and volleyball.

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  100. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @BB753
    Sometimes it works. To be sure, handball goalies get the short end of the stick in what is otherwise a thoroughly enjoyable game to play ( for field players). Back in my salad days, I used to play some handball, both as a goalkeeper and field player. In my opinion, the only way to improve the goalie's chances to stop goals is to enlarge the 20 ft goal area (which players cannot set foot upon) and the whole pitch ( or court as they call it) accordingly, from 131 ft long to, say 155 feet. According to current regulations, the court is IMHO far too wide (66 ft or 20 meters) and too short ( 131 ft or 50 meters) . Which is why the goalie is virtually powerless and the rallies far too short.
    Even so, I find the game more demanding and interesting to watch than volleyball.

    It’s not a bad game. It looks like fun to play and good exercise. Though the game seems better in theory as a spectator sport than it is in practice. Seems like it could be tweaked and experimented with to make it better.

    Maybe the ball could be bigger? The ball is quite small. That seems to be why the goalies are so useless. The goalies are probably primarily worried about getting hit in the face rather than blocking shots. The shooters run and jump and launch themselves towards the goal before chucking the softball sized ball at the goal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Every Olympics I tune in to Team Handball to see if they've fixed it up and they haven't.
    , @BB753
    You've got to be able to grab the ball. I wouldn't change its size.
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  101. @Anonymous
    It's not a bad game. It looks like fun to play and good exercise. Though the game seems better in theory as a spectator sport than it is in practice. Seems like it could be tweaked and experimented with to make it better.

    Maybe the ball could be bigger? The ball is quite small. That seems to be why the goalies are so useless. The goalies are probably primarily worried about getting hit in the face rather than blocking shots. The shooters run and jump and launch themselves towards the goal before chucking the softball sized ball at the goal.

    Every Olympics I tune in to Team Handball to see if they’ve fixed it up and they haven’t.

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  102. @SFG
    You can have disparate groups pursuing the same goals--the alt-right of Happy Merchant fame is behind Trump despite all these facts, largely because they think he's their best chance to decrease immigration before Hillary ramps it up for 4 years (and I agree). Heck, the GOP was serving God and Mammon pretty successfully for a while.

    Personally I think Haaretz really, really hates Trump for ideological reasons (he reminds them of the nationalist politicians they hate in Israel), and is pulling out all the stops to try to mobilize more (American) Jews against him, trying to get opposition from 90% to 99%. Given what we now know about the Android and iPhones, I'm guessing the famous star tweet was Trump looking at a meme he liked and not thinking about the shapes of all the parts of it too hard. A lot of is somewhat ridiculous (Trump using antisemitism as a reserve prejudice to succeed in an American election?). The guy also has the fantasy that American Jews are going to come over and turn Israel back into a lefty-Ashkenazi wonderland:

    http://forward.com/opinion/335553/how-donald-trump-scared-the-jews-won-the-election-and-saved-israel-this-is/

    (Ignoring the fact that without any American Jews influencing the US government, it would probably just abandon Israel to be destroyed by the Arabs.)

    I don't want to spend too much time on what are literally third-hand allegations (though 4 posts on your part deserve 4 paragraphs of reply), but there was a strong preference in the State Dept. for a while to favor the Arabs over Israelis for Realpolitik reasons (oil, oil, and oil)--which is quite sensible, really. So I can believe there were people in the Pentagon who thought that way. Of course some of them probably had a desire to sell and test their toys, and Israel gives them a chance to do that.

    An actual Trump administration (it seems to be receding by the day) would probably just deport illegal immigrants and decrease Muslim immigration...neither of which I have a problem with. The country in general could use an immigration 'break'. We have always had these after periods of high immigration until recently. And, you know, until multiculturalism, it worked.

    You’re being led around like a dummy by polling. Trump’s numbers are back as of this weekend.

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  103. Steve, I think what running talent the Japanese have is actually in the sprints, where compact bodies are normally better (Bolt is a freak outlier) and coordination is important. They love distance running because it expresses effort and perseverance, which are highly valued in their culture, but are not gifted at it.
    Enormous numbers of Japanese people take part in marathons, and in relay road races, running distances ranging from 3km to 20km. Every school, company and town has a competitive team and the major relays are featured on network television. Still, Japan has no success in international competition at 3000, 5000 and 10,000 meters, and isn’t very strong in the marathon apart from the less competitive women’s division.

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  104. @Steve Sailer
    I was thinking a cross between Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman.

    “I was thinking a cross between Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman.”

    He looks like a 1972 James Caan in The Godfather, if Sonny Corleone hung out in a tanning salon all day long.

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  105. Read More
    • Replies: @wren
    From the Independent article:

    ....

    Indeed, in a race where 265 students can run as fast as the very top European runners, why is the winner not running like a Kenyan? Try as they might, in every big global race, the Japanese almost inevitably finish behind the top east Africans. Why?

    I asked the Kenyan runner what he felt was wrong with the training in Japan, and his answer surprised me. "They train too hard," he said. "Too many long runs." There is a belief, held strongly in Japan – but also shared by many runners in the UK – that to do well you just need to work hard. If your results are not going well, train harder. Feeling tired? Train even harder.

    But in running, sometimes you need to train smarter, not harder. In Kenya, for example, the runners are particularly good at resting. If they are feeling tired, it is not unusual for them to skip a session or train slowly. It sounds simple, but it is a trick few runners manage to get right.

    But it is not just the training. Another reason the Japanese don't do so well in the big global races is because all of their focus is on ekiden. Almost all the top runners in Japan run for university or corporate teams whose primary goal is to do well in the big ekiden races. This is what the runners are paid for, and their training schedules are arranged to peak for these races. In the ekidens, times are regularly run that would break national records in straight races (they don't count as records, because the runners don't start on a fixed line and the distances of the races are not pegged neatly to set lengths as they are in events such as a 10km or a half-marathon).

    Former professional runner Kenji Takao tells me that when he was running, his team won the biggest professional ekiden – the New Year ekiden – six years in a row. Then, in the seventh year, they didn't win. "Nobody ever said anything to me if I ran badly in an individual race," he says. "But when we lost the ekiden I got mail and faxes from angry fans and from my bosses." He laughs. "Only ekiden matters," he says.

    This unquestioning dedication to hard work and the obsession with ekidens result in many of Japan's best runners burning out from physical and mental exhaustion at an early age. With even the high-school ekidens getting wall-to-wall national TV coverage, there is a lot of pressure on the young athletes and also on their coaches to achieve good results.

    "Ekiden is destroying our athletes," says Takao, who now coaches one of the top university teams. He adds that coaches often don't think about the long-term prospects of their athletes, particularly at high school and university level. The pressure to win is too great, he says, so they push the athletes too hard.

    He is particularly critical of Hakone. He says the preparation for the Hakone ekiden requires regular 30km runs from student runners. "It's too long, too hard."

    It's a conundrum. Ekiden makes the sport popular and gives rise to the world of professional, salaried distance running unique to Japan, which in turn provides the support and system to produce so many high-level runners. But ekiden and the continual push to get the most out of the young runners, risking their long-term prospects, is also the source of many problems. With the marathon likely to be the most prized event in Japan come the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, it's a conundrum Japan is going to have to solve soon if it is to have any chance of getting on the rostrum among the east African runners.
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  106. @Anonymous
    Rumsfeld isn't Jewish and he's actually not a neocon. He also supports Trump.

    The Pentagon is a huge bureaucracy, with political appointees and regular employees.

    I never wrote Rumsfeld was Jewish. He didn’t quite endorse Trump, just said Hillary would surely be a disaster, whereas Trump was a “known unknown”.

    I questioned the “bragged about firing all the Jews” and “openly denying the holocaust” parts. How many such people there could’ve been back then?

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  107. @wren
    Many people have pondered Japanese marathoners.

    http://running.competitor.com/2016/01/training/three-secrets-of-japanese-marathoners_144071

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/why-japans-incredible-long-distance-runners-will-never-win-the-london-marathon-10182050.html

    http://www.mensjournal.com/entertainment/articles/why-japan-is-the-most-running-obsessed-culture-in-the-world-w209376

    Looks like one of the main things is that they have their own events.

    From the Independent article:

    ….

    Indeed, in a race where 265 students can run as fast as the very top European runners, why is the winner not running like a Kenyan? Try as they might, in every big global race, the Japanese almost inevitably finish behind the top east Africans. Why?

    I asked the Kenyan runner what he felt was wrong with the training in Japan, and his answer surprised me. “They train too hard,” he said. “Too many long runs.” There is a belief, held strongly in Japan – but also shared by many runners in the UK – that to do well you just need to work hard. If your results are not going well, train harder. Feeling tired? Train even harder.

    But in running, sometimes you need to train smarter, not harder. In Kenya, for example, the runners are particularly good at resting. If they are feeling tired, it is not unusual for them to skip a session or train slowly. It sounds simple, but it is a trick few runners manage to get right.

    But it is not just the training. Another reason the Japanese don’t do so well in the big global races is because all of their focus is on ekiden. Almost all the top runners in Japan run for university or corporate teams whose primary goal is to do well in the big ekiden races. This is what the runners are paid for, and their training schedules are arranged to peak for these races. In the ekidens, times are regularly run that would break national records in straight races (they don’t count as records, because the runners don’t start on a fixed line and the distances of the races are not pegged neatly to set lengths as they are in events such as a 10km or a half-marathon).

    Former professional runner Kenji Takao tells me that when he was running, his team won the biggest professional ekiden – the New Year ekiden – six years in a row. Then, in the seventh year, they didn’t win. “Nobody ever said anything to me if I ran badly in an individual race,” he says. “But when we lost the ekiden I got mail and faxes from angry fans and from my bosses.” He laughs. “Only ekiden matters,” he says.

    This unquestioning dedication to hard work and the obsession with ekidens result in many of Japan’s best runners burning out from physical and mental exhaustion at an early age. With even the high-school ekidens getting wall-to-wall national TV coverage, there is a lot of pressure on the young athletes and also on their coaches to achieve good results.

    “Ekiden is destroying our athletes,” says Takao, who now coaches one of the top university teams. He adds that coaches often don’t think about the long-term prospects of their athletes, particularly at high school and university level. The pressure to win is too great, he says, so they push the athletes too hard.

    He is particularly critical of Hakone. He says the preparation for the Hakone ekiden requires regular 30km runs from student runners. “It’s too long, too hard.”

    It’s a conundrum. Ekiden makes the sport popular and gives rise to the world of professional, salaried distance running unique to Japan, which in turn provides the support and system to produce so many high-level runners. But ekiden and the continual push to get the most out of the young runners, risking their long-term prospects, is also the source of many problems. With the marathon likely to be the most prized event in Japan come the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, it’s a conundrum Japan is going to have to solve soon if it is to have any chance of getting on the rostrum among the east African runners.

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    • Replies: @mac in japan
    In Kenya, for example, the runners are particularly good at resting.

    Ha ha. Kenyans are particularly good at being born with bodies suited to distance running. Nobody in Japan can run world class times in the 5000 or 10000 because they're too tired from training? Right... the whole article is a testament to Occam's butter knife.
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  108. @Anonymous
    According to what they say and write online, they'd be very comfortable since they say Trump overall coincides with their goals.

    Does the “they” in your sentence refer to people who hate Jews so much they’d risk their careers by loudly bragging about having fired all Jews and explaining to colleagues at work about how the gas chambers didn’t exist? Would they not risk their careers as part of the Trump team by doing the exact same thing?

    By the way places further to the right of iSteve don’t like Trump much, thinking he’d be an “American Putin” (I think Gregory Hood wrote that), who is still a multiculturalist, but at least no an anti-white multiculturalist, which from a WN point of view might even be worse, because it’d delay or – worse – prevent the White Awakening.

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  109. @wren
    There have been plenty of Japanese marathon record holders over the years, and quite a few Koreans, too. Obviously, the DNA is not too different.

    The surprising thing to me is how many British show up as well.

    Something to do with islands? Empires? Monarchs?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_world_record_progression

    There have been plenty of Japanese marathon record holders over the years, and quite a few Koreans, too. Obviously, the DNA is not too different.

    I am not a geneticist, but I think Koreans and Japaneses do have significant differences – Japanese are much more Southeast Asian agriculturalist-like genetically from what I read while Koreans are much more “North Asian hunter-gatherer” descended.

    Koreans have done better than Japanese in Olympic Marathon, with the former earning 2 gold medals (Berlin 1936; Barcelona 1992), 1 silver (Atlanta 1996), and 1 bronze (Berlin 1936) and the latter earning 2 silver (Mexico City 1968; Atlanta 1996) and 1 bronze (Tokyo 1964).*

    *Officially, the Korean medals in the 1936 Berlin Games are creditd to Japan, because Japan had annexed Korea by that time although the semi-official athlete profiles were changed eventually from Japanese to Korean for those medalists.

    At the Boston Marathon, Japanese have done better, producing 8 winners over the years (1951; 1953; 1955; 1965; 1966; 1969; 1981; 1987) while Koreans won 3 times (1947; 1950; 2001).*

    *From 1991 to 2004, every winner was a Kenyan except one year – in 2001 – when a Korean won. Subsequently Kenyans also won 6 out of 8 races, with Ethiopians winning the other 2 races.

    Interestingly Chinese are almost completely absent among winners of these races, except for a lone bronze medal at the 2008 Bejiing Games.

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  110. @wren
    From the Independent article:

    ....

    Indeed, in a race where 265 students can run as fast as the very top European runners, why is the winner not running like a Kenyan? Try as they might, in every big global race, the Japanese almost inevitably finish behind the top east Africans. Why?

    I asked the Kenyan runner what he felt was wrong with the training in Japan, and his answer surprised me. "They train too hard," he said. "Too many long runs." There is a belief, held strongly in Japan – but also shared by many runners in the UK – that to do well you just need to work hard. If your results are not going well, train harder. Feeling tired? Train even harder.

    But in running, sometimes you need to train smarter, not harder. In Kenya, for example, the runners are particularly good at resting. If they are feeling tired, it is not unusual for them to skip a session or train slowly. It sounds simple, but it is a trick few runners manage to get right.

    But it is not just the training. Another reason the Japanese don't do so well in the big global races is because all of their focus is on ekiden. Almost all the top runners in Japan run for university or corporate teams whose primary goal is to do well in the big ekiden races. This is what the runners are paid for, and their training schedules are arranged to peak for these races. In the ekidens, times are regularly run that would break national records in straight races (they don't count as records, because the runners don't start on a fixed line and the distances of the races are not pegged neatly to set lengths as they are in events such as a 10km or a half-marathon).

    Former professional runner Kenji Takao tells me that when he was running, his team won the biggest professional ekiden – the New Year ekiden – six years in a row. Then, in the seventh year, they didn't win. "Nobody ever said anything to me if I ran badly in an individual race," he says. "But when we lost the ekiden I got mail and faxes from angry fans and from my bosses." He laughs. "Only ekiden matters," he says.

    This unquestioning dedication to hard work and the obsession with ekidens result in many of Japan's best runners burning out from physical and mental exhaustion at an early age. With even the high-school ekidens getting wall-to-wall national TV coverage, there is a lot of pressure on the young athletes and also on their coaches to achieve good results.

    "Ekiden is destroying our athletes," says Takao, who now coaches one of the top university teams. He adds that coaches often don't think about the long-term prospects of their athletes, particularly at high school and university level. The pressure to win is too great, he says, so they push the athletes too hard.

    He is particularly critical of Hakone. He says the preparation for the Hakone ekiden requires regular 30km runs from student runners. "It's too long, too hard."

    It's a conundrum. Ekiden makes the sport popular and gives rise to the world of professional, salaried distance running unique to Japan, which in turn provides the support and system to produce so many high-level runners. But ekiden and the continual push to get the most out of the young runners, risking their long-term prospects, is also the source of many problems. With the marathon likely to be the most prized event in Japan come the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, it's a conundrum Japan is going to have to solve soon if it is to have any chance of getting on the rostrum among the east African runners.

    In Kenya, for example, the runners are particularly good at resting.

    Ha ha. Kenyans are particularly good at being born with bodies suited to distance running. Nobody in Japan can run world class times in the 5000 or 10000 because they’re too tired from training? Right… the whole article is a testament to Occam’s butter knife.

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  111. @Anonymous
    It's not a bad game. It looks like fun to play and good exercise. Though the game seems better in theory as a spectator sport than it is in practice. Seems like it could be tweaked and experimented with to make it better.

    Maybe the ball could be bigger? The ball is quite small. That seems to be why the goalies are so useless. The goalies are probably primarily worried about getting hit in the face rather than blocking shots. The shooters run and jump and launch themselves towards the goal before chucking the softball sized ball at the goal.

    You’ve got to be able to grab the ball. I wouldn’t change its size.

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  112. @Steve Sailer
    Field hockey is a better game than team handball, which makes the goalie look dorky and ineffectual.

    When I saw field hockey in the 1984 Olympics, there were too many play stoppages due to offsides, but perhaps they improved those rules since then to keep the game moving.

    there were too many play stoppages due to offsides

    I remember those days too (barely, as I was a kid), but the offside rule was abolished in field hockey sometime in the mid-90s. The game has indeed become much faster since then, and goalless draws are extremely rare, 3+ goals/match being the norm these days.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Maybe Team Handball could study up on how Field Hockey tweaked some of its rules to become a better game.
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  113. @Triumph104
    I tried watching all of the men's 50km race walk. However, I started watching late on tape delay and about an hour before I got to the end CBC was sending popups about the saga of a Canadian finisher so I gave up.

    Race walking, 50km at least, and women's marathon have the same problem with the top contenders getting injured in the race and not finishing. They hardly get to compete because of the lengthy recovery time between races. In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official's naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye.) These sports are too much effort for too little payoff.

    Alex Schwazer, the Italian 2008 Olympic gold medalist in the 50km walk, was banned from the 2012 Olympics for doping and earlier this year was banned another eight years. He had also dodged testers when they came to his home.

    “In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official’s naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye.”
    being the crumbum I am, I looked at the wiki pages of some of the contesters in the walking discipline a few days ago, among them 20 km winner Wang Zhen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Zhen_(athlete)

    the funny thing: as far as I see both of the walkers in the picture in this wiki article have both of their feet in their air.
    When this is some kind of representative picture this sport really has a problem with the implantation of its rules.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That's pretty funny. Both of their feet are clearly in the air. Although they certainly look like they're walking. They look like they're walking in the air.
    , @reiner Tor
    The biggest problem is that it looks like the Ministry of Silly Walks Monty Python sketch. Above a certain speed level humans naturally run, I don't quite get the benefits of this movement form.

    All swimming strokes have advantages (front crawl - fastest; butterfly - fast against big waves; breaststroke - easiest; backstroke - you're on your back, can see the sky or behind you; dolphin - very fast underwater), but this type of running (pretending to be walking very fast) has zero advantages, and also looks silly. It should be abolished.
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  114. @John Galt
    The media does have a thing for Bolt. It's just as bad on NBC.

    I also was amazed men's field hockey is an Olympic sport. What kind of fairies play field hockey?

    “What kind of fairies play field hockey?”

    Among male hockey players in the UK there are few fairies, and even fewer among the Asian players. When our local team play an Asian side they’re always expecting a battle and bruises at minimum, and when Sikhs have the occasional internal scrap over control of some gurdwara (temple) hockey sticks are the weapon of choice.

    Ladies hockey however is quite (though not exclusively) butch. The gold-winning GB women’s team is I believe the first single-sex Olympic-winning side to contain a “married” couple.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-37141969

    “Team GB captain Kate Richardson-Walsh and wife Helen have become the first same-sex married couple to win an Olympic gold in the same final. The win over the Dutch means Kate, 36, and her spouse, 34, are also thought to be the first married couple since 1900 to win medals on the same team. The pair played their first Olympic Games together at Sydney in 2000. Fellow members of Reading Hockey Club have described them as an “inspiration”. They became the first British married couple to win gold since Cyril and Dorothy Wright in the sailing in 1920.”

    That high-pitched whirring sound is Cyril and Dorothy Wright rotating in their graves at 10,000 rpm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Men's field hockey doesn't seem to be a girly or wimpy sport at all. It looks like a good sport and looks pretty intense. It's fast paced and there's plenty of contact. It's a shame that it's become considered a girl's game in the US, because it would be a great additional game for boys and men in the US.
    , @Ron Mexico
    "butch", I dunno, the Dutch team were a big hit in London and had their own calendar. worth checking out the images online.
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  115. @Numinous

    there were too many play stoppages due to offsides
     
    I remember those days too (barely, as I was a kid), but the offside rule was abolished in field hockey sometime in the mid-90s. The game has indeed become much faster since then, and goalless draws are extremely rare, 3+ goals/match being the norm these days.

    Maybe Team Handball could study up on how Field Hockey tweaked some of its rules to become a better game.

    Read More
    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Maybe they should outlaw pump fakes? Handball shooters seem to always do these double clutch pump fakes before shooting that the goalies are totally hapless against.
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  116. @Erik Sieven
    "In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official’s naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye."
    being the crumbum I am, I looked at the wiki pages of some of the contesters in the walking discipline a few days ago, among them 20 km winner Wang Zhen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Zhen_(athlete)
    the funny thing: as far as I see both of the walkers in the picture in this wiki article have both of their feet in their air.
    When this is some kind of representative picture this sport really has a problem with the implantation of its rules.

    That’s pretty funny. Both of their feet are clearly in the air. Although they certainly look like they’re walking. They look like they’re walking in the air.

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  117. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Nephew
    "What kind of fairies play field hockey?"

    Among male hockey players in the UK there are few fairies, and even fewer among the Asian players. When our local team play an Asian side they're always expecting a battle and bruises at minimum, and when Sikhs have the occasional internal scrap over control of some gurdwara (temple) hockey sticks are the weapon of choice.

    Ladies hockey however is quite (though not exclusively) butch. The gold-winning GB women's team is I believe the first single-sex Olympic-winning side to contain a "married" couple.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-37141969

    "Team GB captain Kate Richardson-Walsh and wife Helen have become the first same-sex married couple to win an Olympic gold in the same final. The win over the Dutch means Kate, 36, and her spouse, 34, are also thought to be the first married couple since 1900 to win medals on the same team. The pair played their first Olympic Games together at Sydney in 2000. Fellow members of Reading Hockey Club have described them as an "inspiration". They became the first British married couple to win gold since Cyril and Dorothy Wright in the sailing in 1920."
     
    That high-pitched whirring sound is Cyril and Dorothy Wright rotating in their graves at 10,000 rpm.

    Men’s field hockey doesn’t seem to be a girly or wimpy sport at all. It looks like a good sport and looks pretty intense. It’s fast paced and there’s plenty of contact. It’s a shame that it’s become considered a girl’s game in the US, because it would be a great additional game for boys and men in the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You get whacked with a stick now and then, but field hockey is a perfectly fine game. It's not as awesome as ice hockey because you are just running rather than ice skating, but then you don't need an expensive indoor rink. The few times I played ice hockey was always at like 1 AM because that's the only time we could get a rink in L.A.
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  118. @Steve Sailer
    Maybe Team Handball could study up on how Field Hockey tweaked some of its rules to become a better game.

    Maybe they should outlaw pump fakes? Handball shooters seem to always do these double clutch pump fakes before shooting that the goalies are totally hapless against.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Good point -- you can't do as convincing of a pump fake in soccer or hockey because you can't hold on to the ball, so the goalie has a sporting chance of making a stop. Team Handball, however, is like if quarterback Tom Brady was told all he has to do is throw the football into a big net past a goalie. He'd just pump fake the goalie into going one way and then toss the ball in the other half of the net. Whoopie!

    To my eyes, the biggest problem with Team Handball is the goalie gets humiliated constantly. In soccer or hockey the goalie is formidable and cool. Basketball bans goaltending, so it's probably overly high scoring. But Team Handball falls in between: the goalie is mostly just a sacrificial goat.

    Maybe goals could only be scored by punching the ball without gripping it, like in volleyball?

    , @Triumph104
    Water polo players do the one hand pump fake. Also, if the goalie has the ball at the buzzer they heave it across the pool and try to score a goal. Surprisingly it sometimes works.

    https://youtu.be/lqPLKtLeOLc?t=105

    https://youtu.be/V4YkmHlV4Z0
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  119. @Anonymous
    Maybe they should outlaw pump fakes? Handball shooters seem to always do these double clutch pump fakes before shooting that the goalies are totally hapless against.

    Good point — you can’t do as convincing of a pump fake in soccer or hockey because you can’t hold on to the ball, so the goalie has a sporting chance of making a stop. Team Handball, however, is like if quarterback Tom Brady was told all he has to do is throw the football into a big net past a goalie. He’d just pump fake the goalie into going one way and then toss the ball in the other half of the net. Whoopie!

    To my eyes, the biggest problem with Team Handball is the goalie gets humiliated constantly. In soccer or hockey the goalie is formidable and cool. Basketball bans goaltending, so it’s probably overly high scoring. But Team Handball falls in between: the goalie is mostly just a sacrificial goat.

    Maybe goals could only be scored by punching the ball without gripping it, like in volleyball?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    In soccer or hockey the goalie is formidable and cool.
     
    Our high-school health teacher (!) liked to call kids with severe acne "goalie for the dart team".

    (No, not to their faces. The ones in slides and videos.)

    Goaltending would be quite interesting in horseshoes and lawn darts. And golf!
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  120. @Erik Sieven
    "In addition race walking has the problem of numerous competitors getting disqualified when an official’s naked eye sees both feet off the ground at the same time. (The slow-mo camera showed that walkers frequently have both feet leave the ground, but it is just not visible to the naked eye."
    being the crumbum I am, I looked at the wiki pages of some of the contesters in the walking discipline a few days ago, among them 20 km winner Wang Zhen.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Zhen_(athlete)
    the funny thing: as far as I see both of the walkers in the picture in this wiki article have both of their feet in their air.
    When this is some kind of representative picture this sport really has a problem with the implantation of its rules.

    The biggest problem is that it looks like the Ministry of Silly Walks Monty Python sketch. Above a certain speed level humans naturally run, I don’t quite get the benefits of this movement form.

    All swimming strokes have advantages (front crawl – fastest; butterfly – fast against big waves; breaststroke – easiest; backstroke – you’re on your back, can see the sky or behind you; dolphin – very fast underwater), but this type of running (pretending to be walking very fast) has zero advantages, and also looks silly. It should be abolished.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Isn't the idea that for the longest distances, the fastest way for a human to travel naturally is by walking? There are diminishing returns to jogging, and at certain long distances, even slow jogging becomes too stressful on the body and the runner has to stop. At extreme distances, walking seems to be the best and fastest pace for humans. So racwalking doesn't seem that frivolous or ridiculous. There is a kind of athletic logic behind it. One of the Olympic men's racewalking events is 50 km/31miles, longer than the marathon which is 42km/26 miles. Outside of the Olympics, there are 100km/62mile racewalking races.
    , @Ron Mexico
    agree with the absurdity of race walking being an Olympic event, but it is one of the rare events that Mexico might challenge for a medal, so maybe that is why it is kept around.
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  121. @Anonymous
    Men's field hockey doesn't seem to be a girly or wimpy sport at all. It looks like a good sport and looks pretty intense. It's fast paced and there's plenty of contact. It's a shame that it's become considered a girl's game in the US, because it would be a great additional game for boys and men in the US.

    You get whacked with a stick now and then, but field hockey is a perfectly fine game. It’s not as awesome as ice hockey because you are just running rather than ice skating, but then you don’t need an expensive indoor rink. The few times I played ice hockey was always at like 1 AM because that’s the only time we could get a rink in L.A.

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  122. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor
    The biggest problem is that it looks like the Ministry of Silly Walks Monty Python sketch. Above a certain speed level humans naturally run, I don't quite get the benefits of this movement form.

    All swimming strokes have advantages (front crawl - fastest; butterfly - fast against big waves; breaststroke - easiest; backstroke - you're on your back, can see the sky or behind you; dolphin - very fast underwater), but this type of running (pretending to be walking very fast) has zero advantages, and also looks silly. It should be abolished.

    Isn’t the idea that for the longest distances, the fastest way for a human to travel naturally is by walking? There are diminishing returns to jogging, and at certain long distances, even slow jogging becomes too stressful on the body and the runner has to stop. At extreme distances, walking seems to be the best and fastest pace for humans. So racwalking doesn’t seem that frivolous or ridiculous. There is a kind of athletic logic behind it. One of the Olympic men’s racewalking events is 50 km/31miles, longer than the marathon which is 42km/26 miles. Outside of the Olympics, there are 100km/62mile racewalking races.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    They would need to come up with a different definition of walking than having one foot on the ground at all times.
    , @reiner Tor
    50km is way too short for that.

    Even extreme ultra distance races like the Spartathlon are running distances for the winners. (The Spartathlon for example is a 256km race, and is usually won in under 24 hours, it means the average speed is roughly 10 kph, which is a running speed.)

    Running events anyway don't prohibit walking, so if there was a distance where it was deemed the most beneficial, runners would simply walk. There's no need for a separate racewalking event for that.
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  123. @Anonymous
    Isn't the idea that for the longest distances, the fastest way for a human to travel naturally is by walking? There are diminishing returns to jogging, and at certain long distances, even slow jogging becomes too stressful on the body and the runner has to stop. At extreme distances, walking seems to be the best and fastest pace for humans. So racwalking doesn't seem that frivolous or ridiculous. There is a kind of athletic logic behind it. One of the Olympic men's racewalking events is 50 km/31miles, longer than the marathon which is 42km/26 miles. Outside of the Olympics, there are 100km/62mile racewalking races.

    They would need to come up with a different definition of walking than having one foot on the ground at all times.

    Read More
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  124. @reiner Tor
    The biggest problem is that it looks like the Ministry of Silly Walks Monty Python sketch. Above a certain speed level humans naturally run, I don't quite get the benefits of this movement form.

    All swimming strokes have advantages (front crawl - fastest; butterfly - fast against big waves; breaststroke - easiest; backstroke - you're on your back, can see the sky or behind you; dolphin - very fast underwater), but this type of running (pretending to be walking very fast) has zero advantages, and also looks silly. It should be abolished.

    agree with the absurdity of race walking being an Olympic event, but it is one of the rare events that Mexico might challenge for a medal, so maybe that is why it is kept around.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Out of curiosity I looked up Mexico's Rio haul. They won 3 silver medals: 20km walk, diving, and Taekwondo, plus two bronze: boxing and modern pentathlon.
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  125. @Anonymous Nephew
    "What kind of fairies play field hockey?"

    Among male hockey players in the UK there are few fairies, and even fewer among the Asian players. When our local team play an Asian side they're always expecting a battle and bruises at minimum, and when Sikhs have the occasional internal scrap over control of some gurdwara (temple) hockey sticks are the weapon of choice.

    Ladies hockey however is quite (though not exclusively) butch. The gold-winning GB women's team is I believe the first single-sex Olympic-winning side to contain a "married" couple.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-37141969

    "Team GB captain Kate Richardson-Walsh and wife Helen have become the first same-sex married couple to win an Olympic gold in the same final. The win over the Dutch means Kate, 36, and her spouse, 34, are also thought to be the first married couple since 1900 to win medals on the same team. The pair played their first Olympic Games together at Sydney in 2000. Fellow members of Reading Hockey Club have described them as an "inspiration". They became the first British married couple to win gold since Cyril and Dorothy Wright in the sailing in 1920."
     
    That high-pitched whirring sound is Cyril and Dorothy Wright rotating in their graves at 10,000 rpm.

    “butch”, I dunno, the Dutch team were a big hit in London and had their own calendar. worth checking out the images online.

    Read More
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  126. @Anonymous
    Maybe they should outlaw pump fakes? Handball shooters seem to always do these double clutch pump fakes before shooting that the goalies are totally hapless against.

    Water polo players do the one hand pump fake. Also, if the goalie has the ball at the buzzer they heave it across the pool and try to score a goal. Surprisingly it sometimes works.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They have to tread water though, and the ball's bigger and slippery from the water. Most ball sports have some sort of impediment like that on offense to make it more challenging. In basketball you have to dribble and put the ball in a small hoop, in soccer you have to use your feet, etc.
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  127. @Ron Mexico
    agree with the absurdity of race walking being an Olympic event, but it is one of the rare events that Mexico might challenge for a medal, so maybe that is why it is kept around.

    Out of curiosity I looked up Mexico’s Rio haul. They won 3 silver medals: 20km walk, diving, and Taekwondo, plus two bronze: boxing and modern pentathlon.

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  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Triumph104
    Water polo players do the one hand pump fake. Also, if the goalie has the ball at the buzzer they heave it across the pool and try to score a goal. Surprisingly it sometimes works.

    https://youtu.be/lqPLKtLeOLc?t=105

    https://youtu.be/V4YkmHlV4Z0

    They have to tread water though, and the ball’s bigger and slippery from the water. Most ball sports have some sort of impediment like that on offense to make it more challenging. In basketball you have to dribble and put the ball in a small hoop, in soccer you have to use your feet, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Good points.
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  129. @Anonymous
    Isn't the idea that for the longest distances, the fastest way for a human to travel naturally is by walking? There are diminishing returns to jogging, and at certain long distances, even slow jogging becomes too stressful on the body and the runner has to stop. At extreme distances, walking seems to be the best and fastest pace for humans. So racwalking doesn't seem that frivolous or ridiculous. There is a kind of athletic logic behind it. One of the Olympic men's racewalking events is 50 km/31miles, longer than the marathon which is 42km/26 miles. Outside of the Olympics, there are 100km/62mile racewalking races.

    50km is way too short for that.

    Even extreme ultra distance races like the Spartathlon are running distances for the winners. (The Spartathlon for example is a 256km race, and is usually won in under 24 hours, it means the average speed is roughly 10 kph, which is a running speed.)

    Running events anyway don’t prohibit walking, so if there was a distance where it was deemed the most beneficial, runners would simply walk. There’s no need for a separate racewalking event for that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Longer running events like marathons have water stations though. For longer distances, without water breaks, joggers would collapse of heatstroke and dehydration and be severely debilitated or die, while walkers would be able to slog through.

    For ultramarathons like the Spartathlon, it's common for the runners to walk during parts of the race while they drink water, rest, and even eat food. Then they'll run for a while before walking again to rehydrate and refuel. They probably wouldn't be able to run for long stretches without the water and food breaks. Without the water and food, they'd probably have to walk it.

    I agree the 50km is short, but it's sort of a proxy I suppose.
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  130. @Anonymous
    Maybe they realized that soccer is gay.

    Maybe they realized that soccer is gay.

    Like our ass-slapping version of football isn’t? What with its constant “timeouts”, substitutions and reentry, plastic lingerie, etc…

    Anyway, there’s something rather cucky about ceding two of your major sports to your local Africans, and yet another to foreign Hispanics. Not to mention taxing yourself to build their arenas.

    And kicking your last-place team out of the league sounds decidedly less “gay” than rewarding it with a “first-round draft choice”. (Which sounds like a beer, doesn’t it?)

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  131. @Steve Sailer
    Good point -- you can't do as convincing of a pump fake in soccer or hockey because you can't hold on to the ball, so the goalie has a sporting chance of making a stop. Team Handball, however, is like if quarterback Tom Brady was told all he has to do is throw the football into a big net past a goalie. He'd just pump fake the goalie into going one way and then toss the ball in the other half of the net. Whoopie!

    To my eyes, the biggest problem with Team Handball is the goalie gets humiliated constantly. In soccer or hockey the goalie is formidable and cool. Basketball bans goaltending, so it's probably overly high scoring. But Team Handball falls in between: the goalie is mostly just a sacrificial goat.

    Maybe goals could only be scored by punching the ball without gripping it, like in volleyball?

    In soccer or hockey the goalie is formidable and cool.

    Our high-school health teacher (!) liked to call kids with severe acne “goalie for the dart team”.

    (No, not to their faces. The ones in slides and videos.)

    Goaltending would be quite interesting in horseshoes and lawn darts. And golf!

    Read More
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  132. @Triumph104
    I watched the entire women's pole vault competition on live stream. After seeing the reigning world champion and the reigning Olympic champion both get eliminated, it appears that pole vault is an event where PEDs play little to no role.

    Silver medalist Sandi Morris (US) and bronze medalist Eliza McCartney (NZ) are both very easy on the eyes!

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  133. @Numinous
    Watch a penalty corner (start watching at 1:25) being struck and defended and then tell me if field hockey is girly. (For those who don't know, it's a hard ball made of solid plastic.)

    Another sport where, like ice hockey, the men and the women play entirely different games. Guarding the goal post on a corner set play isn’t for the faint of heart.

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  134. Ola says: • Website
    @Triumph104
    I watched the entire women's pole vault competition on live stream. After seeing the reigning world champion and the reigning Olympic champion both get eliminated, it appears that pole vault is an event where PEDs play little to no role.

    PEDs are extremely useful for pole vaulting. But (to use the language of out host) women’s pole vault is still at the beach volleyball stage. That’s why some of the medalists get away with a higher body fat percentage than in the rest of the jumping and sprinting events. The world record is not on par with the rest of the world records.

    Eventually, the witch doctors should take over the pole vault too.

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  135. @Numinous
    Watch a penalty corner (start watching at 1:25) being struck and defended and then tell me if field hockey is girly. (For those who don't know, it's a hard ball made of solid plastic.)

    Any variety of shinty/camanachd or hurling can degerate into a spectacular and unedifying mess fairly rapidly, if played by men (don’t watch the whole thing, it’s pretty tedious to non-Gaels, just a few minutes will do). Sort of competitive mob-golf, with heavier gear. Fine, if you never had any teeth to begin with, and don’t mind a month off work.

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  136. I hate to be the nitpicky one, but the x-axis scale on the graph bugged me. The distances are actual numbers, so why not space them out with a true log scale instead of an approximate one?

    I guess it doesn’t make much of a difference since there is only one distance gap that is more than a factor of 2 (10k to 42k Marathon). But thinking of race distances as scaling exponentially instead of being categorical variables is a nice concept.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reginald Maplethorp
    Just for fun: Steve's data with a linear scale (less information density, but stresses the long tails).

    I wonder if half marathon data would lie on those straight lines between 10k and marathon...?

    Plain text re-construction of Steve's data here.
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  137. @Anonymous
    They have to tread water though, and the ball's bigger and slippery from the water. Most ball sports have some sort of impediment like that on offense to make it more challenging. In basketball you have to dribble and put the ball in a small hoop, in soccer you have to use your feet, etc.

    Good points.

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  138. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor
    50km is way too short for that.

    Even extreme ultra distance races like the Spartathlon are running distances for the winners. (The Spartathlon for example is a 256km race, and is usually won in under 24 hours, it means the average speed is roughly 10 kph, which is a running speed.)

    Running events anyway don't prohibit walking, so if there was a distance where it was deemed the most beneficial, runners would simply walk. There's no need for a separate racewalking event for that.

    Longer running events like marathons have water stations though. For longer distances, without water breaks, joggers would collapse of heatstroke and dehydration and be severely debilitated or die, while walkers would be able to slog through.

    For ultramarathons like the Spartathlon, it’s common for the runners to walk during parts of the race while they drink water, rest, and even eat food. Then they’ll run for a while before walking again to rehydrate and refuel. They probably wouldn’t be able to run for long stretches without the water and food breaks. Without the water and food, they’d probably have to walk it.

    I agree the 50km is short, but it’s sort of a proxy I suppose.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Yes, but as I wrote, running events don't (and for the reasons you gave can't) prohibit walking. If walking was more economical than running (during the Spartathlon, for most participants, uphill it is, downhill it is not), it would be used anyway.

    Walking at running speed (50km in 4 hours) is plain stupid.
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  139. @Reginald Maplethorp
    I hate to be the nitpicky one, but the x-axis scale on the graph bugged me. The distances are actual numbers, so why not space them out with a true log scale instead of an approximate one?

    I guess it doesn't make much of a difference since there is only one distance gap that is more than a factor of 2 (10k to 42k Marathon). But thinking of race distances as scaling exponentially instead of being categorical variables is a nice concept.

    Just for fun: Steve’s data with a linear scale (less information density, but stresses the long tails).

    I wonder if half marathon data would lie on those straight lines between 10k and marathon…?

    Plain text re-construction of Steve’s data here.

    Read More
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  140. Here’s a 20 year-old college term paper about the Rarámuri or Tarahumara Indians of Mexico. The slow ultramarathon runners. The paper is fascinating.

    http://www.lehigh.edu/~dmd1/art.html

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  141. @Anonymous
    Longer running events like marathons have water stations though. For longer distances, without water breaks, joggers would collapse of heatstroke and dehydration and be severely debilitated or die, while walkers would be able to slog through.

    For ultramarathons like the Spartathlon, it's common for the runners to walk during parts of the race while they drink water, rest, and even eat food. Then they'll run for a while before walking again to rehydrate and refuel. They probably wouldn't be able to run for long stretches without the water and food breaks. Without the water and food, they'd probably have to walk it.

    I agree the 50km is short, but it's sort of a proxy I suppose.

    Yes, but as I wrote, running events don’t (and for the reasons you gave can’t) prohibit walking. If walking was more economical than running (during the Spartathlon, for most participants, uphill it is, downhill it is not), it would be used anyway.

    Walking at running speed (50km in 4 hours) is plain stupid.

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  142. Yeah, if you have Usain Bolt on your team, you could then have him carry the baton for 105 meters instead of 100, but that’s pretty minor compared to DQ.

    Doesn’t matter who you’re handing off to, you always want to hand off at the last possible moment. Because the guy taking the handoff is accelerating slower than the previous guy is decelerating (unless you made the handoff zone ridiculously long, like 40 meters!)

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    • Replies: @Ola
    Correct. Thats why you generally should have the fastest guy on the first leg (baton travels 110 m) and the slowest guy on the anchor leg (baton travels 90 m).
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  143. @International Jew

    Yeah, if you have Usain Bolt on your team, you could then have him carry the baton for 105 meters instead of 100, but that’s pretty minor compared to DQ.
     
    Doesn't matter who you're handing off to, you always want to hand off at the last possible moment. Because the guy taking the handoff is accelerating slower than the previous guy is decelerating (unless you made the handoff zone ridiculously long, like 40 meters!)

    Correct. Thats why you generally should have the fastest guy on the first leg (baton travels 110 m) and the slowest guy on the anchor leg (baton travels 90 m).

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Heh, indeed. So why don't they do that?

    When I ran track (high school) I think we handed off pretty early, just to ensure we didn't miss the handoff. (Well, also, I was always in the 4x440, and there was some risk that the incoming runner was so tired, the guy takibg off would oytrub him. But this was so long ago I may be forgetting details...)

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  144. @Steve Sailer
    A lot of decathlete gold medalists have been half black: Daley Thompson twice, Dan O'Brien, Bryan Clay (half Japanese), and Ashton Eaton twice. That's six of the last ten gold medalists. Since WWII, there have been two blacks (Milt Campbell and Rafer Johnson) and the rest white. The silver medalist this year was a Nordic looking Frenchman.

    So the decathlon seems quite racially balanced between black and white skills. And decathletes tend to look like what you picture your athletic champ to look like, whereas so many these days are so specialized for their events they look kind of funny.

    Of course, it's pretty unwieldy and goes on for two long days, leaving the champion pretty exhausted at the end when he's being interviewed. When I saw it in 1984, the 8th event, the pole vault took forever and the German contender got sunstroke (he wasn't wearing sunglasses, which was big mistake).

    If I was going to pick a single event, I'd probably pick pole vault, even though it's kind of crazy. But it's a good all around test speed, strength, agility, and courage. Pole vaulters, like decathletes, tend to look like our Platonic ideal of athletes.

    We could shorten the time it takes to complete the decathlon and cut right to the chase if we reduced it to two events: shot put, and marathon.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    You need a jumping event. Add the high jump.

    The Olympic motto is "Higher, Faster, Stronger", so you need all three.
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  145. @Ola
    Correct. Thats why you generally should have the fastest guy on the first leg (baton travels 110 m) and the slowest guy on the anchor leg (baton travels 90 m).

    Heh, indeed. So why don’t they do that?

    When I ran track (high school) I think we handed off pretty early, just to ensure we didn’t miss the handoff. (Well, also, I was always in the 4×440, and there was some risk that the incoming runner was so tired, the guy takibg off would oytrub him. But this was so long ago I may be forgetting details…)

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    outrun, damn that unz clock!
    , @Ola
    It is strange to see mistakes like that on the world level but I would wager that it is mostly about crowd-pleasing. People like watching the stars on the final stretch as individual runners get lost in the chaos of the changeovers and staggered curves of legs 1-3.

    Also people (both the audience and the runners) seem to prefer having fast runner coming from behind, overtaking a slow one, to having a slow runner in the lead, losing ground to a faster one coming from behind. I guess it seems more heroic and plays into the myth of the individual runner surpassing himself for the cause of the team.

    That said, Jamaica is so fast that they don't have to play it smart in the 4x100.

    Also, Bolt is not the quickest starter so he is not perfectly suited to the first leg even though he is the fastest. He would probably contribute most on the 2nd leg where the baton travels 100m but the runner has to endure 130 m of running (30 m acceleration without the baton), The 3rd leg is similar but run in a curve and therefore better suited to a shorter runner and one with better relative strength as the curve demands constant acceleration.

    There are other considerations too, of course. And the slower the runners, the faster they reach top-speed. In youth relays and 4x400 thus, you don't need 30 m of acceleration. Instead you try to get the fastest runner to get the baton early and leave it late.
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  146. @International Jew
    Heh, indeed. So why don't they do that?

    When I ran track (high school) I think we handed off pretty early, just to ensure we didn't miss the handoff. (Well, also, I was always in the 4x440, and there was some risk that the incoming runner was so tired, the guy takibg off would oytrub him. But this was so long ago I may be forgetting details...)

    outrun, damn that unz clock!

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  147. @International Jew
    Heh, indeed. So why don't they do that?

    When I ran track (high school) I think we handed off pretty early, just to ensure we didn't miss the handoff. (Well, also, I was always in the 4x440, and there was some risk that the incoming runner was so tired, the guy takibg off would oytrub him. But this was so long ago I may be forgetting details...)

    It is strange to see mistakes like that on the world level but I would wager that it is mostly about crowd-pleasing. People like watching the stars on the final stretch as individual runners get lost in the chaos of the changeovers and staggered curves of legs 1-3.

    Also people (both the audience and the runners) seem to prefer having fast runner coming from behind, overtaking a slow one, to having a slow runner in the lead, losing ground to a faster one coming from behind. I guess it seems more heroic and plays into the myth of the individual runner surpassing himself for the cause of the team.

    That said, Jamaica is so fast that they don’t have to play it smart in the 4×100.

    Also, Bolt is not the quickest starter so he is not perfectly suited to the first leg even though he is the fastest. He would probably contribute most on the 2nd leg where the baton travels 100m but the runner has to endure 130 m of running (30 m acceleration without the baton), The 3rd leg is similar but run in a curve and therefore better suited to a shorter runner and one with better relative strength as the curve demands constant acceleration.

    There are other considerations too, of course. And the slower the runners, the faster they reach top-speed. In youth relays and 4×400 thus, you don’t need 30 m of acceleration. Instead you try to get the fastest runner to get the baton early and leave it late.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Humans are not robots. When someone is ahead of you and you're trying to catch him, you will run faster (relative to your own abilities) than if you're ahead of the pack. Your performance in the latter situation will be even worse if you think you're better than the rest anyway. The opposite is true if you think the others are better than you and you have to catch them: it'll demoralize you.

    I think the anchor leg has the greatest responsibility (his mistakes can no longer be corrected by others), so it's natural they give this responsibility to the best runner.

    Did they try it otherwise? If you're right and it works and it's not been tried, it'll eventually spread, the show be damned.
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  148. @International Jew
    We could shorten the time it takes to complete the decathlon and cut right to the chase if we reduced it to two events: shot put, and marathon.

    You need a jumping event. Add the high jump.

    The Olympic motto is “Higher, Faster, Stronger”, so you need all three.

    Read More
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  149. @Ola
    It is strange to see mistakes like that on the world level but I would wager that it is mostly about crowd-pleasing. People like watching the stars on the final stretch as individual runners get lost in the chaos of the changeovers and staggered curves of legs 1-3.

    Also people (both the audience and the runners) seem to prefer having fast runner coming from behind, overtaking a slow one, to having a slow runner in the lead, losing ground to a faster one coming from behind. I guess it seems more heroic and plays into the myth of the individual runner surpassing himself for the cause of the team.

    That said, Jamaica is so fast that they don't have to play it smart in the 4x100.

    Also, Bolt is not the quickest starter so he is not perfectly suited to the first leg even though he is the fastest. He would probably contribute most on the 2nd leg where the baton travels 100m but the runner has to endure 130 m of running (30 m acceleration without the baton), The 3rd leg is similar but run in a curve and therefore better suited to a shorter runner and one with better relative strength as the curve demands constant acceleration.

    There are other considerations too, of course. And the slower the runners, the faster they reach top-speed. In youth relays and 4x400 thus, you don't need 30 m of acceleration. Instead you try to get the fastest runner to get the baton early and leave it late.

    Humans are not robots. When someone is ahead of you and you’re trying to catch him, you will run faster (relative to your own abilities) than if you’re ahead of the pack. Your performance in the latter situation will be even worse if you think you’re better than the rest anyway. The opposite is true if you think the others are better than you and you have to catch them: it’ll demoralize you.

    I think the anchor leg has the greatest responsibility (his mistakes can no longer be corrected by others), so it’s natural they give this responsibility to the best runner.

    Did they try it otherwise? If you’re right and it works and it’s not been tried, it’ll eventually spread, the show be damned.

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    • Replies: @Ola
    It's definitely true that some runners perform better when trying to catch up, but there are others who tense up and perform worse. It's something to consider of course, but there are many considerations. Left-handed runners, for example, are preferred for leg 2 as they hand over to a runner edging to the left of the curve and who therefore must receive with the right hand.

    You see all kind of running orders in 4x100. USA had their fastest (Gatlin) on leg 2 in Rio. So did the Netherlands (Schippers). The big stars/divas like Bolt and Carl Lewis tend to run the anchor leg though.

    But I strongly disagree with the anchor leg having the greatest responsibility. On the contrary, there is less room for the last runner to screw up as he only receives the baton. It's much harder to pass on the baton and leg 2 and 3 have to do both receiving and passing. The clumsiest (or most nervous) runner should therefore as a general rule run anchor leg in team matches when finishing is more important than running a perfect race.
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  150. Ola says: • Website
    @reiner Tor
    Humans are not robots. When someone is ahead of you and you're trying to catch him, you will run faster (relative to your own abilities) than if you're ahead of the pack. Your performance in the latter situation will be even worse if you think you're better than the rest anyway. The opposite is true if you think the others are better than you and you have to catch them: it'll demoralize you.

    I think the anchor leg has the greatest responsibility (his mistakes can no longer be corrected by others), so it's natural they give this responsibility to the best runner.

    Did they try it otherwise? If you're right and it works and it's not been tried, it'll eventually spread, the show be damned.

    It’s definitely true that some runners perform better when trying to catch up, but there are others who tense up and perform worse. It’s something to consider of course, but there are many considerations. Left-handed runners, for example, are preferred for leg 2 as they hand over to a runner edging to the left of the curve and who therefore must receive with the right hand.

    You see all kind of running orders in 4×100. USA had their fastest (Gatlin) on leg 2 in Rio. So did the Netherlands (Schippers). The big stars/divas like Bolt and Carl Lewis tend to run the anchor leg though.

    But I strongly disagree with the anchor leg having the greatest responsibility. On the contrary, there is less room for the last runner to screw up as he only receives the baton. It’s much harder to pass on the baton and leg 2 and 3 have to do both receiving and passing. The clumsiest (or most nervous) runner should therefore as a general rule run anchor leg in team matches when finishing is more important than running a perfect race.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The audience, though, wants to see Bolt or Carl Lewis or Bob Hayes run anchor.
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  151. @Ola
    It's definitely true that some runners perform better when trying to catch up, but there are others who tense up and perform worse. It's something to consider of course, but there are many considerations. Left-handed runners, for example, are preferred for leg 2 as they hand over to a runner edging to the left of the curve and who therefore must receive with the right hand.

    You see all kind of running orders in 4x100. USA had their fastest (Gatlin) on leg 2 in Rio. So did the Netherlands (Schippers). The big stars/divas like Bolt and Carl Lewis tend to run the anchor leg though.

    But I strongly disagree with the anchor leg having the greatest responsibility. On the contrary, there is less room for the last runner to screw up as he only receives the baton. It's much harder to pass on the baton and leg 2 and 3 have to do both receiving and passing. The clumsiest (or most nervous) runner should therefore as a general rule run anchor leg in team matches when finishing is more important than running a perfect race.

    The audience, though, wants to see Bolt or Carl Lewis or Bob Hayes run anchor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ola
    Yes, I think the main reason is to please the audience. Due to the staggered curves and many messy changeovers, it's really hard to keep track of the individual runners in the first three legs. Even if, for example, you know that Bolt is running leg 3 and manage to spot him, it is still almost impossible to assess his race as he probably didn't receive the baton at the same time as his main rivals.
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  152. @Steve Sailer
    The audience, though, wants to see Bolt or Carl Lewis or Bob Hayes run anchor.

    Yes, I think the main reason is to please the audience. Due to the staggered curves and many messy changeovers, it’s really hard to keep track of the individual runners in the first three legs. Even if, for example, you know that Bolt is running leg 3 and manage to spot him, it is still almost impossible to assess his race as he probably didn’t receive the baton at the same time as his main rivals.

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