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Commenter New Deal weighs in:

Submitted on 2018/01/17 at 7:49 pm

I’m a left-Unzist who loves free speech and likes policy based on sober argument and evidence. I’m deeply worried about the extremist open-border lunacy now espoused by the American elite, even in its centrist precincts. It didn’t use to be this way. Many of Trump’s proposals were more courteously enunciated somewhat by Obama, more by Bill Clinton, or by the great Barbara Jordan. Public discussion of immigration policy in the U.S. now, however, is about at the level of adolescent twitter chat about the Kardashians.

Maybe throwing open the borders would bring about prophet Caplan’s paradise on earth; more likely the consequences would be bad for both receiving and sending countries, and even perverse, such as global labor contractors swiftly bringing in millions of Southeast Asians (bonus: many are muslim) and booting Mexicans out of their low-wage niches. At a minimum, no one can predict the consequences of open borders: never have there been so many people, never has travel been so cheap. And you shouldn’t gamble a whole country on an untested policy, look at how that worked out for the Russians after 1917.

Nowadays, recklessly utopian positions are not taken seriously on any other topic (except certain U.S. war policies: invite the world, invade the world, hmmm). Fringes might demand abolition of police and prison, but ordinary people don’t. If you really believe in unqualified pacifism and unilateral disarmament, journalists and politicians would treat you like Trump treated Ali G: a few polite words and a quick good-bye. Any politician proposing a command economy, the free distribution of goods, and the abolition of work would get two percent of the vote and maybe pity from some for being weak-minded. What is most similar to immigration was the faith of Leninists that abolition of the price system by violence would liberate humanity. That belief gripped many academics and gullible reformers, but appalled anyone with the slightest business experience and most economists, and killed a hundred million people. That debate was over well before 1989. But when Jeff Bezos, CIA contractor, funds $33 million of scholarships for illegals, that’s normal, laudatory? Rather than bizarre, like Howard Hughes having his urine collected and stored?

We live in a country where most people obey the law. In the majority of countries people do not, and it makes life worse for everyone. Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War, and more generally legal defiance is contagious. Losing the great advantage of the rule of law is another evil that a responsible citizen would not risk bringing about. I feel like I am one of the non-believers among the Xhosa in the 1850s when their prophets commanded the slaughter of all cattle and destruction of crops, because that would cause the dead to rise again, along with all kinds of livestock, clothing ,and wealth, and “the blind would see, the deaf would hear, cripples would walk.” When it didn’t happen, who was to blame? The non-believers. For not believing hard enough they were persecuted and plundered.

 
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  1. Bill P says:

    They’re freaking out because they are going to lose the argument soon, one way or another. There will be another Cold War, because America’s elites are going to start to see what happens when a patriotic country runs the table on them. All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren’t going to like it. American militarism will collapse under progressive assaults as transsexuals occupy privileged posts in the military and chase out all but their faithful allies, who don’t want to fight.

    The fools who thought that selling out the American people would perpetually be good for their bottom line will find out otherwise. Corruption and moral decline have consequences.

    When elite secular Anglos and Jews find themselves under the thumb of Chinese functionaries they will suddenly find themselves looking favorably upon American nationalism. It’s entirely predictable. Anti-white racism will be put on hiatus indefinitely. The only problem is that they may have already done so much damage to the country that they won’t be able to preserve their interests.

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    We're in an intranational Cold War now, what looms but may still be avoided is a Civil War.
    , @TheBoom
    They aren't going to lose the argument. They are going to win it by immigration. That is why they are so fanatical about it.
    , @Forbes
    By the time "they" lose the argument, it will be too late--the US will have already been sold (down the river).

    The prog-left always argues that the foreseeable consequences just won't happen--and the Queensberry Rules Republicans take the Dems at their word.

    I was reminded of that today at a forum where the 1964 Civil Rights Act was discussed. The floor leader for the Act (as majority whip), Sen. Hubert Humphrey (D-MN), on defending against the accusation that the act would lead to quotas/affirmative action/positive discrimination, insisted such wouldn't happen--and were it to occur, Humphrey would come to the Senate floor and chew-up and swallow (eat) the pages of the legislation.
    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    "All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren’t going to like it."

    Be that as it may, I'm starting to think I might prefer the corrupt Chincom functionary style of rule over the current batch of bleating purple-haired polyamorous yellow-scaled wingless dragonkin of indeterminate gender that are running things from their perches at in Human Resources and Higher Education etc.

    You're probably more familiar with the downside of Red China style corruption, please paint the picture for those of us who've never experienced it up close and personal like you have.
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  2. S says:

    I guess every managerial class cohort has to have something crazy to believe in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Can we get them to believe in vampiric, pedophilic spirit-cookers and turn on eachother?
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  3. eD says:

    Mr. Blank had an excellent comment in one of the other threads that its not just this, public discourse in general is just more idiotic than its been in the past.

    Read More
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  4. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Bill P
    They're freaking out because they are going to lose the argument soon, one way or another. There will be another Cold War, because America's elites are going to start to see what happens when a patriotic country runs the table on them. All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren't going to like it. American militarism will collapse under progressive assaults as transsexuals occupy privileged posts in the military and chase out all but their faithful allies, who don't want to fight.

    The fools who thought that selling out the American people would perpetually be good for their bottom line will find out otherwise. Corruption and moral decline have consequences.

    When elite secular Anglos and Jews find themselves under the thumb of Chinese functionaries they will suddenly find themselves looking favorably upon American nationalism. It's entirely predictable. Anti-white racism will be put on hiatus indefinitely. The only problem is that they may have already done so much damage to the country that they won't be able to preserve their interests.

    We’re in an intranational Cold War now, what looms but may still be avoided is a Civil War.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neoconned
    What the elites are doing in Illinois w the Hispanics to suppress Blacks voting as a Bloc & gaining power or in Arizona, California, Texas etc w blacks & Asians to suppress Latino and specifically Mexican regionalist political aspirations will be their undoing in the longer run as Latinos slowly take over state level political machines....

    Civil war AND BALKANIZATION just like the Soviet Union are coming here....
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  5. unit472 says:

    On Monday the WaPo featured the story of an El Salvadorean transvestite prostitute being held in San Diego pending deportation. The transvestite was fearful gangs in San Salvador would ‘get’ her if he/she returned so she must have had some involvement with them before coming to the US.

    I commented that the ‘Lady in Red’ who fingered famed bank robber John Dillinger for the FBI was a Romanian immigrant who ran a brothel. She was deported for ‘moral turpitude’ despite her assistance to the Feds. Now the WaPo would have me feel sorry for an El Salvadorean illegal immigrant who admits working as a prostitute in the US?

    Read More
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  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    recklessly utopian positions

    Utopian or Elitopian?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  7. TheBoom says:
    @Bill P
    They're freaking out because they are going to lose the argument soon, one way or another. There will be another Cold War, because America's elites are going to start to see what happens when a patriotic country runs the table on them. All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren't going to like it. American militarism will collapse under progressive assaults as transsexuals occupy privileged posts in the military and chase out all but their faithful allies, who don't want to fight.

    The fools who thought that selling out the American people would perpetually be good for their bottom line will find out otherwise. Corruption and moral decline have consequences.

    When elite secular Anglos and Jews find themselves under the thumb of Chinese functionaries they will suddenly find themselves looking favorably upon American nationalism. It's entirely predictable. Anti-white racism will be put on hiatus indefinitely. The only problem is that they may have already done so much damage to the country that they won't be able to preserve their interests.

    They aren’t going to lose the argument. They are going to win it by immigration. That is why they are so fanatical about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    However, the elites that push for massive immigration forget how it will affect their children and grandchildren. Money and stuff runs out once there are hundreds of thousands of people needing/wanting welfare - the zombies that will eat the Progressives' children. I see more pitchforks...and very few, failed, self-driving cars on crappy roads. I see anti-Progress, end of wildlife, death of all good things.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. Steve,
    Here is a really good overview of our immigration from 2016. Daniel Horowitz is correct. Obama and the Democrats DO want to fundamentally change America: https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/immigration-system-really-looks-like/

    One of the best parts: “Chain migration dominates the system: Almost all the new immigrants were the result of chain migration or refugee-type programs. Very few green cards were apportioned based on skills or merit. A whopping 120,000 refugees were brought in. Overall, only 12 percent of all immigrants came through employment-based programs that require some sort of merit. Among the new arrivals, those numbers are starker. Just four percent of all new arrivals came in on employment visas, meaning the remaining 96 percent were either family visas or refugee, asylum, and quasi-amnesties. Only 2,410 individuals, .004 percent of new arrivals, came here with advanced degrees or extraordinary skills.”

    Only 4%! And a lot of those were presumably H1Bs. Look, I’m sure the 2,410 individuals with advanced degrees or extraordinarily skills are a huge asset to America. I absolutely welcome them and their immediate families (spouses and dependent children). But come on. This is a total joke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    Thanks for the link. It's good to have some real numbers behind this stuff.

    So per that article (citing Government stats):

    - In 2016 there were ~620,000 new arrival immigrants.

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we'd get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.

    Which means in a hypothetical trade, the 800,000 DACAs would pay for themselves in net migration terms by about 2020.
    , @jbwilson24
    Good lord, that few? I came here with multiple advanced degrees, seats on international standards bodies, etc. I had no idea that there are so few of us, and so many who are admitted either through lottery, or on account of having relatives here.

    Lotteries and family ties are NOT good ways to build a country. You wouldn't pick employees by lottery.
    , @Desiderius

    Only 4%!
     
    Unless I'm mistaken, you're overly optimistic by three orders of magnitude.
    , @Alden
    2,410 more H1 b visas means 2,410 highly skilled jobs denied to Americans.

    Drs, accountants, nurses, programmers, engineers research scientists, all jobs Americans just won’t do.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. Sunbeam says:

    “Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,”

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    You can recognize authority or oppose it. (You can really only ignore it if it's very weak.) The government's legitimacy comes into question if enough people disagree. Right now the establishment, the academy, the cities, and the newcomers have a wildly different understanding of everything than the American people. Without this disagreement there can be no demand that the army depart Fort Sumter.
    , @Ganderson
    Nullification, or Calhoun's theory of concurrent majorities. The Union had already almost come apart in 1832.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Excellent question. That was my thought exactly. In fact, after I read that I couldn't focus on anything else he wrote.
    , @Joe Sweet
    “Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,”

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    I take it to mean that when the North "self-exempted from the rule of law", namely by disregarding the South's legal right to secede from the Union, the Civil War was triggered.

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  10. L Woods says:

    When it didn’t happen, who was to blame? The non-believers. For not believing hard enough they were persecuted and plundered.

    Certainly aligns with my experience in life. Non-conformity probably only pays off in 1 out of a 1000 lifetimes at best.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses
    Power Law #38: Think as you like, but behave like others.

    If you haven't read Robert Greene's "48 Laws of Power" yet, do. It's like an operating manual for the levers of power and influence as the world really is.

    http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as-you-like-but-behave.html
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  11. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Sunbeam
    "Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,"

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    You can recognize authority or oppose it. (You can really only ignore it if it’s very weak.) The government’s legitimacy comes into question if enough people disagree. Right now the establishment, the academy, the cities, and the newcomers have a wildly different understanding of everything than the American people. Without this disagreement there can be no demand that the army depart Fort Sumter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    But secession isn't "self-exemption from the law." It is a change of jurisdiction entirely. Perhaps he is referrring to the fugitive slave issue?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. Forbes says:
    @Bill P
    They're freaking out because they are going to lose the argument soon, one way or another. There will be another Cold War, because America's elites are going to start to see what happens when a patriotic country runs the table on them. All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren't going to like it. American militarism will collapse under progressive assaults as transsexuals occupy privileged posts in the military and chase out all but their faithful allies, who don't want to fight.

    The fools who thought that selling out the American people would perpetually be good for their bottom line will find out otherwise. Corruption and moral decline have consequences.

    When elite secular Anglos and Jews find themselves under the thumb of Chinese functionaries they will suddenly find themselves looking favorably upon American nationalism. It's entirely predictable. Anti-white racism will be put on hiatus indefinitely. The only problem is that they may have already done so much damage to the country that they won't be able to preserve their interests.

    By the time “they” lose the argument, it will be too late–the US will have already been sold (down the river).

    The prog-left always argues that the foreseeable consequences just won’t happen–and the Queensberry Rules Republicans take the Dems at their word.

    I was reminded of that today at a forum where the 1964 Civil Rights Act was discussed. The floor leader for the Act (as majority whip), Sen. Hubert Humphrey (D-MN), on defending against the accusation that the act would lead to quotas/affirmative action/positive discrimination, insisted such wouldn’t happen–and were it to occur, Humphrey would come to the Senate floor and chew-up and swallow (eat) the pages of the legislation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    So, why didn't any senator of a sporting disposition challenge Humphrey to keep his word?

    Actually, Teddy Kennedy said exactly the same thing about the long term effects of the 1965 Immigration Act, insisting that it would *never* lead to a mass third world influx to the USA.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Moses says:
    @L Woods

    When it didn’t happen, who was to blame? The non-believers. For not believing hard enough they were persecuted and plundered.
     
    Certainly aligns with my experience in life. Non-conformity probably only pays off in 1 out of a 1000 lifetimes at best.

    Power Law #38: Think as you like, but behave like others.

    If you haven’t read Robert Greene’s “48 Laws of Power” yet, do. It’s like an operating manual for the levers of power and influence as the world really is.

    http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as-you-like-but-behave.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    Where was this when I started grad school. Oh well -- who needs friends/sexual relationships lasting longer than one night/a non-hostile work and study environment. Can't wait to leave this sewer of a city behind.
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  14. eah says:

    Losing the great advantage of the rule of law is another evil that a responsible citizen would not risk bringing about.

    They (“America’s elites”) are not responsible. Obviously. And the fact that so many (white) Americans are decent and law-abiding is only an advantage for them (“America’s elites”).

    Read More
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  15. We already lost, all that’s left is the fall. Anyone been to Northern Virginia lately? The grass roots are just filthy anymore.

    Read More
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  16. @Bill P
    They're freaking out because they are going to lose the argument soon, one way or another. There will be another Cold War, because America's elites are going to start to see what happens when a patriotic country runs the table on them. All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren't going to like it. American militarism will collapse under progressive assaults as transsexuals occupy privileged posts in the military and chase out all but their faithful allies, who don't want to fight.

    The fools who thought that selling out the American people would perpetually be good for their bottom line will find out otherwise. Corruption and moral decline have consequences.

    When elite secular Anglos and Jews find themselves under the thumb of Chinese functionaries they will suddenly find themselves looking favorably upon American nationalism. It's entirely predictable. Anti-white racism will be put on hiatus indefinitely. The only problem is that they may have already done so much damage to the country that they won't be able to preserve their interests.

    “All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren’t going to like it.”

    Be that as it may, I’m starting to think I might prefer the corrupt Chincom functionary style of rule over the current batch of bleating purple-haired polyamorous yellow-scaled wingless dragonkin of indeterminate gender that are running things from their perches at in Human Resources and Higher Education etc.

    You’re probably more familiar with the downside of Red China style corruption, please paint the picture for those of us who’ve never experienced it up close and personal like you have.

    Read More
    • Agree: Frau Katze
    • Replies: @Sandmich
    I'll take a wack at that. In a corrupt, but otherwise well organized, kleptocracy like China or Russia, the law doesn't apply above a certain level, and pretty much doesn't exist below that level. Among many other social ills, this leads to clan like behavior where it doesn't matter what you know, but who you know. It's like the mafia writ large where every daily move is about making sure the monster swallow you. Businesses only hire family or people to whom they owe favors, or people that they want owing them a favor; people only shop where their "clan" is affiliated; etc. Look for "china nail house" for an example, is there any doubt that the owners of those houses knew someone who knew someone who knew a local communist party apparatchik?

    I agree with the commentator, once the rule of law is gone, it's very nearly impossible to put back. I'm also tempted to agree with a different commentator in that colonialism (of us, not to other people) may be about the only way to effectively get it back.
    , @Bill P
    As a foreigner, I never experienced it like the Chinese do, but I learned a fair amount just from watching and listening. There is an enormous amount of human cruelty in authoritarian countries without true rule of law. Part of this is simply what you have to do to survive. The humiliations I saw Chinese people endure were more extreme than I've seen anywhere else. But still they take it surprisingly well.

    There's a sort of social darwinism at work that favors the most ruthless and cunning. Those who are neither will never get anywhere in life. For the powerful, following the law is optional. The harder and dirtier your job, the lower your pay. Sex is an outright commodity, without even the customary fig leaf of romance.

    Disputes are settled with violence. Simple street vendors gang up and club their rivals to keep them out of their territory. Death sentences are handed out like candy, and rapidly administered. People with no civil remedy for their grievances, such as farmers who face land seizure, often resort to riots. Sometimes these riots are put down with deadly force.

    The class distinctions are profound, and actually enforced by the law. Those without permission to live in the city are ruthlessly exploited, and prevented from living openly (illegal immigrants in the US have it much better than people with no internal passport in China), yet there's no serious effort to keep them out due to the cheap labor they provide. Because they have this status, one can hire them on the cheap for anything one might find them useful for -- housekeeping, service work, sex, various dangerous, back-breaking jobs and so on.

    When there is flooding, the waters are diverted to areas where the people are less powerful. There is nothing they can do about it.

    Religious people are persecuted to the point where they have to practice their faith in secret. Fake products, cheaters and scammers are everywhere. Every other "doctor" is a quack. Chinese people rip each other off relentlessly, but if they get caught doing the same to the party the consequences are very severe.

    That's just getting started.

    China is not a terrible place, mostly because ordinary Chinese are pretty good people, but it has a long way to go and a lot of catching up to do. Putting CCP officials in charge of Western societies would be a disaster, as they would ruin them in short order. The idea that we have anything to learn from Mainland China in terms of governance could only come about because our elites have engaged in a multi-decade ripoff of the American people with the PRC as their main accomplice; in order to hide the magnitude of their crime, our own elites have softened China's image considerably. This way the truth about their irresponsibility in enriching what is turning out to be a hostile, authoritarian regime at the expense of the American working and middle class doesn't look quite so bad.
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  17. @William Middleton
    Steve,
    Here is a really good overview of our immigration from 2016. Daniel Horowitz is correct. Obama and the Democrats DO want to fundamentally change America: https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/immigration-system-really-looks-like/

    One of the best parts: "Chain migration dominates the system: Almost all the new immigrants were the result of chain migration or refugee-type programs. Very few green cards were apportioned based on skills or merit. A whopping 120,000 refugees were brought in. Overall, only 12 percent of all immigrants came through employment-based programs that require some sort of merit. Among the new arrivals, those numbers are starker. Just four percent of all new arrivals came in on employment visas, meaning the remaining 96 percent were either family visas or refugee, asylum, and quasi-amnesties. Only 2,410 individuals, .004 percent of new arrivals, came here with advanced degrees or extraordinary skills."

    Only 4%! And a lot of those were presumably H1Bs. Look, I'm sure the 2,410 individuals with advanced degrees or extraordinarily skills are a huge asset to America. I absolutely welcome them and their immediate families (spouses and dependent children). But come on. This is a total joke.

    Thanks for the link. It’s good to have some real numbers behind this stuff.

    So per that article (citing Government stats):

    - In 2016 there were ~620,000 new arrival immigrants.

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we’d get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.

    Which means in a hypothetical trade, the 800,000 DACAs would pay for themselves in net migration terms by about 2020.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    I hate to resort to typical keyboard radical "worse is better" thinking, but...I don't see how slowing the boil is going to help. Look, after all, at what the migrant invasion did to kickstart right wing populism in Europe.

    Some might argue that a slower intake might allow time for assimilation. But present fertility rates coupled with the "flight from white" phenomenon all but ensure that the cake is already baked.
    , @Yak-15
    That’s assuming a Dem-run Congress doesn’t reopen the borders. The stand is now and the push back begins with DACA.
    , @Lot

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we’d get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.
     
    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.

    After the backlog cleared in 6-10 years (educated guess), then there would be a significant reduction, but still not 2/3 since the lack of a long wait would encourage more immediate family migration.

    Long term, chain migration reform like this would be very significant. Short term, the best thing on the table is ending the diversity lottery, cutting the president's annual refugee number even further (how about 200 for 2018?) and ending TPS.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  18. @William Middleton
    Steve,
    Here is a really good overview of our immigration from 2016. Daniel Horowitz is correct. Obama and the Democrats DO want to fundamentally change America: https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/immigration-system-really-looks-like/

    One of the best parts: "Chain migration dominates the system: Almost all the new immigrants were the result of chain migration or refugee-type programs. Very few green cards were apportioned based on skills or merit. A whopping 120,000 refugees were brought in. Overall, only 12 percent of all immigrants came through employment-based programs that require some sort of merit. Among the new arrivals, those numbers are starker. Just four percent of all new arrivals came in on employment visas, meaning the remaining 96 percent were either family visas or refugee, asylum, and quasi-amnesties. Only 2,410 individuals, .004 percent of new arrivals, came here with advanced degrees or extraordinary skills."

    Only 4%! And a lot of those were presumably H1Bs. Look, I'm sure the 2,410 individuals with advanced degrees or extraordinarily skills are a huge asset to America. I absolutely welcome them and their immediate families (spouses and dependent children). But come on. This is a total joke.

    Good lord, that few? I came here with multiple advanced degrees, seats on international standards bodies, etc. I had no idea that there are so few of us, and so many who are admitted either through lottery, or on account of having relatives here.

    Lotteries and family ties are NOT good ways to build a country. You wouldn’t pick employees by lottery.

    Read More
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  19. L Woods says:
    @27 year old
    Thanks for the link. It's good to have some real numbers behind this stuff.

    So per that article (citing Government stats):

    - In 2016 there were ~620,000 new arrival immigrants.

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we'd get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.

    Which means in a hypothetical trade, the 800,000 DACAs would pay for themselves in net migration terms by about 2020.

    I hate to resort to typical keyboard radical “worse is better” thinking, but…I don’t see how slowing the boil is going to help. Look, after all, at what the migrant invasion did to kickstart right wing populism in Europe.

    Some might argue that a slower intake might allow time for assimilation. But present fertility rates coupled with the “flight from white” phenomenon all but ensure that the cake is already baked.

    Read More
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  20. Self-exemption from the law? That describes the Abraham Lincoln administration perfectly!

    Read More
    • Agree: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Alden
    Or attacking Fort Sumpter.

    Sorry, don’t want to start a fight.
    , @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Exactly.
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  21. Yak-15 says:
    @27 year old
    Thanks for the link. It's good to have some real numbers behind this stuff.

    So per that article (citing Government stats):

    - In 2016 there were ~620,000 new arrival immigrants.

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we'd get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.

    Which means in a hypothetical trade, the 800,000 DACAs would pay for themselves in net migration terms by about 2020.

    That’s assuming a Dem-run Congress doesn’t reopen the borders. The stand is now and the push back begins with DACA.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    A good idea would be to use Steve's "Immigration Safety Board", which he based on the NTSB.

    I would create a board similar to the FCC and the NLRB. Appoint 5 commissioners with the President's party having a majority, and require a quorum to make a decision. This board will decide the level of immigration into the country, and the jurisdiction of the federal courts will be limited so they cannot interfere.

    This would remove the power to set the immigration levels from the President and Congress, in the same way that control of the money supply is held by the Federal Reserve and not by the Treasury.

    A Dem Congress would find it hard to fill the seats consistently in the frequent examples of divided government, and if there is no quorum then immigration ceases.

    https://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/04/time-for-national-immigration-safety.html

    ---

    If we have to worry about a future Dem Congress undoing Trump, even this solution would be temporary at best. Partition or Putin would be the best permanent solutions.
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  22. L Woods says:
    @Moses
    Power Law #38: Think as you like, but behave like others.

    If you haven't read Robert Greene's "48 Laws of Power" yet, do. It's like an operating manual for the levers of power and influence as the world really is.

    http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.com/2011/05/law-38-think-as-you-like-but-behave.html

    Where was this when I started grad school. Oh well — who needs friends/sexual relationships lasting longer than one night/a non-hostile work and study environment. Can’t wait to leave this sewer of a city behind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Dude, where are you and what are you doing? Get out before you go crazy and wind up bitter and ugly.
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  23. eah says:
    2164568

    Lee Kuan Yew – the best quotes from Singapore’s founding father

    “Here in Singapore, you didn’t come across the white man so much. He was in a superior position. But there you are (in Britain) in a superior position meeting white men and white women in an inferior position, socially, I mean. They have to serve you and so on in the shops. And I saw no reason why they should be governing me; they’re not superior. I decided when I got back, I was going to put an end to this.”

    Read More
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  24. Dr. X says:

    BREAKING: Jews arrested for occupying Senate, demanding passage of DREAM Act

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/dozens-of-jewish-activists-arrested-calling-on-congress-to-protect-dreamers/

    Read More
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  25. We live in a country

    That we do; but they (the elites – sic) live in an empire. Empires have always been fond of mixing and moving their subjects around to dilute nationalist feeling.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    well, the elites are very upset with the deplorables and the Republicans (finally found their nuts) messing things up. It's not an Empire.

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation....and see what happens. Entire buildings could be robbed and wiped out...neighborhoods. That's what happened in neighborhoods in Stalin's time. People stole other people's stuff - killed them...and there was no one to save you - no one to protect you. The fact that so few Americans/Europeans know this, surprises me.

    , @L Woods
    Indeed, since the days of the ancient Assyrians at least.
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  26. @William Middleton
    Steve,
    Here is a really good overview of our immigration from 2016. Daniel Horowitz is correct. Obama and the Democrats DO want to fundamentally change America: https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/immigration-system-really-looks-like/

    One of the best parts: "Chain migration dominates the system: Almost all the new immigrants were the result of chain migration or refugee-type programs. Very few green cards were apportioned based on skills or merit. A whopping 120,000 refugees were brought in. Overall, only 12 percent of all immigrants came through employment-based programs that require some sort of merit. Among the new arrivals, those numbers are starker. Just four percent of all new arrivals came in on employment visas, meaning the remaining 96 percent were either family visas or refugee, asylum, and quasi-amnesties. Only 2,410 individuals, .004 percent of new arrivals, came here with advanced degrees or extraordinary skills."

    Only 4%! And a lot of those were presumably H1Bs. Look, I'm sure the 2,410 individuals with advanced degrees or extraordinarily skills are a huge asset to America. I absolutely welcome them and their immediate families (spouses and dependent children). But come on. This is a total joke.

    Only 4%!

    Unless I’m mistaken, you’re overly optimistic by three orders of magnitude.

    Read More
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  27. Alden says:
    @William Middleton
    Steve,
    Here is a really good overview of our immigration from 2016. Daniel Horowitz is correct. Obama and the Democrats DO want to fundamentally change America: https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/immigration-system-really-looks-like/

    One of the best parts: "Chain migration dominates the system: Almost all the new immigrants were the result of chain migration or refugee-type programs. Very few green cards were apportioned based on skills or merit. A whopping 120,000 refugees were brought in. Overall, only 12 percent of all immigrants came through employment-based programs that require some sort of merit. Among the new arrivals, those numbers are starker. Just four percent of all new arrivals came in on employment visas, meaning the remaining 96 percent were either family visas or refugee, asylum, and quasi-amnesties. Only 2,410 individuals, .004 percent of new arrivals, came here with advanced degrees or extraordinary skills."

    Only 4%! And a lot of those were presumably H1Bs. Look, I'm sure the 2,410 individuals with advanced degrees or extraordinarily skills are a huge asset to America. I absolutely welcome them and their immediate families (spouses and dependent children). But come on. This is a total joke.

    2,410 more H1 b visas means 2,410 highly skilled jobs denied to Americans.

    Drs, accountants, nurses, programmers, engineers research scientists, all jobs Americans just won’t do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    2,410 more H1 b visas means 2,410 highly skilled jobs denied to Americans.

    Drs, accountants, nurses, programmers, engineers research scientists, all jobs Americans just won’t do.
     
    Exactly.
    , @The Alarmist
    2,410 H1b Visas also means 12,000 other immigrants (family plus parents) when they ultimately convert to citizen status. Every time I return to the States via Dallas I see 20+ wheel chairs for the elderly parents of Indians in Dallas, not to mention those walking.
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  28. Alden says:
    @Fidelios Automata
    Self-exemption from the law? That describes the Abraham Lincoln administration perfectly!

    Or attacking Fort Sumpter.

    Sorry, don’t want to start a fight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Prompted by Lincoln's aggression and lies.

    But, yes the South should not have fallen for Lincoln's trick so quickly. They should've stood down the guns longer and made the Northern Aggressors fire first.
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  29. It’s worse than this.

    Our own government’s studies prove the war on a noun is creating the thing it is supposedly fighting. It is the logical consequence, in any case. This is a life and death matter, in terms of a nation’s survival, but we insist on more even knowing its consequences.

    Open racism/sexism against the most productive class – white men. Etc. My local school had three lock-downs this semester where children were forced to huddle in dark classrooms on the floor and stay still. They had to pee and poop in the class garbage cans. Because they heard gunshots in the distance, as they do daily in this rural Alaska community bordering a military base.

    Parents write in to our community facebook page about how grateful they are their children were held hostage and abused like this. You are a dangerous, violent threat if you disagree and the platform’s censorship protocols guarantee this is the prevailing public view.

    I don’t do twitter or television but in reading actual journalism in the alternative media demonstrates people are delusional and under mass hysteria as opposed to “adolescent”.

    An adolescent, a century ago, is superior in emotional maturity, critical thinking, and morality than an adult today.

    We are a disgrace. My family is immigrating out. To a safe country where we have freedom. I just have to keep working until retirement, and then we’re out of here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TheUmpteenthGermanOnHere
    I don't understand the incident you describe and the actual and the purported rationale involved.
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  30. Lagertha says:
    @TheBoom
    They aren't going to lose the argument. They are going to win it by immigration. That is why they are so fanatical about it.

    However, the elites that push for massive immigration forget how it will affect their children and grandchildren. Money and stuff runs out once there are hundreds of thousands of people needing/wanting welfare – the zombies that will eat the Progressives’ children. I see more pitchforks…and very few, failed, self-driving cars on crappy roads. I see anti-Progress, end of wildlife, death of all good things.

    Read More
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  31. Lagertha says:
    @Desiderius

    We live in a country
     
    That we do; but they (the elites - sic) live in an empire. Empires have always been fond of mixing and moving their subjects around to dilute nationalist feeling.

    well, the elites are very upset with the deplorables and the Republicans (finally found their nuts) messing things up. It’s not an Empire.

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation….and see what happens. Entire buildings could be robbed and wiped out…neighborhoods. That’s what happened in neighborhoods in Stalin’s time. People stole other people’s stuff – killed them…and there was no one to save you – no one to protect you. The fact that so few Americans/Europeans know this, surprises me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Apparently home invasions are the new hotness in Australia. It's not being reported though. Oh, and somehow the home invaders always have guns. That's funny.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation….and see what happens.
     
    As much as I have seen Americans wuss out on many Constitutional issues to the point of disgust, I dont think any government would try this. Many patriotic Americans know that the gun thing has got to be the last straw - they understand deep down that the 2nd Amendment wasn't about hunting and not primarily about self-defense either.*

    No, men would come from states all over the country to make a defense of some sort, some specifically to kill whoever was doing this enforcement. The politicians who lead the left-wing know that direct mass confiscation would be a bad move. That's why they push for incremental changes, banning this certain type of gun here, retroactively or not, placing taxes on ammunition there, and above all, lying, lying, lying about via the statistics along with having talking points ready for any gun death anywhere that might help their cause.

    It's been going on like this for as long as I can remember, Lagertha. However, in some areas of the law, due to the NRA's and many patriot's work, gun control has been pushed back - concealed carry laws are one thing, but Constitutional carry states are growing in number.

    Image embedding did not work, unfortunately, but the link above is to a great animated year-by-year image that shows the favorable changes from 1986 throught 2017, with green meaning compliance with the US Constitution (as incorporated by the states).


    * You won't get this from the NRA. They are a good crowd, but they don't want to say this for political reasons. GOA and patriot web sites are a different story.
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  32. Neoconned says:
    @J.Ross
    We're in an intranational Cold War now, what looms but may still be avoided is a Civil War.

    What the elites are doing in Illinois w the Hispanics to suppress Blacks voting as a Bloc & gaining power or in Arizona, California, Texas etc w blacks & Asians to suppress Latino and specifically Mexican regionalist political aspirations will be their undoing in the longer run as Latinos slowly take over state level political machines….

    Civil war AND BALKANIZATION just like the Soviet Union are coming here….

    Read More
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  33. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Lagertha
    well, the elites are very upset with the deplorables and the Republicans (finally found their nuts) messing things up. It's not an Empire.

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation....and see what happens. Entire buildings could be robbed and wiped out...neighborhoods. That's what happened in neighborhoods in Stalin's time. People stole other people's stuff - killed them...and there was no one to save you - no one to protect you. The fact that so few Americans/Europeans know this, surprises me.

    Apparently home invasions are the new hotness in Australia. It’s not being reported though. Oh, and somehow the home invaders always have guns. That’s funny.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Oh, and somehow the home invaders always have guns. That’s funny.
     
    Well, there's another side to every story, Mr. Ross. Most of these home invaders can't read ... you know ... the "Gun-free Zone" signs and the laws .... on the internet ... see. Yeah, that's it. They need more money for education. That'll end the violcnce.
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  34. Whiskey says: • Website

    Liberal Jews like a faster who starves himself lose by mass Muslim or really Third World immigration. Who wants to live even in the Dominican Republic? Heck those on the SS St. Louis preferred mostly to risk death camps than live in the Dominican. So that right there tells you something.

    BUT Liberal Jews get to stick to cousin Al who runs “Crazy Al’s Camera Emporium” and voted for Trump; and embarrasses them, and in particularly Flyover Whites who listen to country music and drink non-ironically Jack Daniels. And their HATE HATE HATE is more important to them than anything else.

    Slave morality, Nietcsche got that right. Defining ones-self on the basis of hate and opposition to others, instead of Master morality defined by your freedom to do things. Own weapons. Go out to war, Fight enemies. Drink to drunken-ness. Swagger about as you please. Instead of living like a mincing soy-boy always having to kow-tow to whatever tranny idiocy is fashionable that month. There is no end to ways in which living in a matriarchy is living hell for the 90% of men who are not natural born Alphas.

    So like crabs in a bucket they aim to pull everyone down as well. Can’t have Alpha Joe Redneck in Alabama enjoying himself, here’s Habib and Muhammed to stage an impromptu chemistry experiment and by the way lets outlaw booze or guns because it only makes Habib and Muhammed angry. And we can’t have that now can we?

    If our elites lived in a man’s world, pace James Brown, they’d be figuring out how to colonize Africa and Latin America again in a way that they’d both get their cut and an increased opportunity to be a leader of men.

    Read More
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  35. L Woods says:
    @Desiderius

    We live in a country
     
    That we do; but they (the elites - sic) live in an empire. Empires have always been fond of mixing and moving their subjects around to dilute nationalist feeling.

    Indeed, since the days of the ancient Assyrians at least.

    Read More
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  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    2,410 more H1 b visas means 2,410 highly skilled jobs denied to Americans.

    Drs, accountants, nurses, programmers, engineers research scientists, all jobs Americans just won’t do.

    2,410 more H1 b visas means 2,410 highly skilled jobs denied to Americans.

    Drs, accountants, nurses, programmers, engineers research scientists, all jobs Americans just won’t do.

    Exactly.

    Read More
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  37. guest says:
    @S
    I guess every managerial class cohort has to have something crazy to believe in.

    Can we get them to believe in vampiric, pedophilic spirit-cookers and turn on eachother?

    Read More
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  38. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    In fact, the experiment of mass of importation of a defiantly non compatible tropical, third world population into a predominantly white society *was* performed in historical times, the experiment being, of course, negro slavery in the USA.

    The ultimate result of that experiment are painfully obvious to anyone with eyes to see.
    The mystery is why the commissioners of the EU are so dead intent on repeating the experiment in the face of such obvious evidence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    Because you express power by forcing people to do things they don't want to do. In this case because it is horrible, stupid, self destructive and civilization destroying.
    , @Anon
    Isn't it cute how the ding-dong Europeans want all the trauma of a post-slavery society, all the crime, welfare, and unemployment, without ever having had the benefits of slavery? At least Americans got some work out of blacks before it all went bad.
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  39. rogue-one says:

    Unrelated. I have found some of Steve’s old work on iq interesting. One of the more interesting articles was “India’s Average IQ in 2100?”. (link: http://www.unz.com/isteve/indias-average-iq-in-2100/)

    I read this article today “In 14-18 years age group, only 43% able to do a simple division correctly, while 47% of 14-year-olds could not read a simple sentence in English, says the ASER study”

    (link: http://www.livemint.com/Education/sLNNNO5Lvl7dcdVJRH5osN/Indias-learning-deficit-is-worsening-ASER-study.html)

    While this is again just one study in a relatively poor county suffering from malnutrition but do studies like these and the decline in relative quality of engineers from India (except from elite and mid-tier schools) affect predictions about iq of India in 2100? Were we overoptimistic or I am reading too much into a very limited dataset of a highly complex society?

    Read More
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  40. “Public discussion of immigration policy in the U.S. now, however, is about at the level of adolescent twitter chat about the Kardashians.”

    No, the Twitterati actually give much more thought to their Tweets about the Kardashians.

    Open Borders has become a new cult religion, complete with its own totems like, “We are a nation of immigrants, ” “Diversity is our strength,” and “That’s not who we are,” the latter now being true because “we” let too many of “them” in and they are now free to decide who else gets in (chain migration … if only there were actual chains!).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Immigration has become a cult among the left because the left has far too many first-generation immigrants among them who don't want their relatives to be stuck in the old country. That's all it is. If these people were three generations away from immigration, they wouldn't care.
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  41. Lot says:
    @27 year old
    Thanks for the link. It's good to have some real numbers behind this stuff.

    So per that article (citing Government stats):

    - In 2016 there were ~620,000 new arrival immigrants.

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we'd get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.

    Which means in a hypothetical trade, the 800,000 DACAs would pay for themselves in net migration terms by about 2020.

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we’d get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.

    After the backlog cleared in 6-10 years (educated guess), then there would be a significant reduction, but still not 2/3 since the lack of a long wait would encourage more immediate family migration.

    Long term, chain migration reform like this would be very significant. Short term, the best thing on the table is ending the diversity lottery, cutting the president’s annual refugee number even further (how about 200 for 2018?) and ending TPS.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.
     
    Logically all the applications in the backlog for a class of immigrant that's no longer allowed should be cancelled immediately when the law changes, but that's unlikely to happen.

    Good info. My point isn't that we should definitely take the deal, it's that we should know and talk about the numbers involved. To the extent that winning debates matters (which is little), we can win the immigration debate much more easily if it's about numbers than if it's about feels and ideas.
    , @Opinionator

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.
     
    Is there any reason, legal or otherwise, why these non-citizens should be grandfathered in contrary to the interests of American citizens?
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  42. Ganderson says:
    @Sunbeam
    "Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,"

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    Nullification, or Calhoun’s theory of concurrent majorities. The Union had already almost come apart in 1832.

    Read More
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  43. Ganderson says:

    As I’ve said many times: eastern and northern European hockey players and their hot wives/girlfriends. That’s it! No one else gets in.

    Read More
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  44. @Backwoods Bob
    It's worse than this.

    Our own government's studies prove the war on a noun is creating the thing it is supposedly fighting. It is the logical consequence, in any case. This is a life and death matter, in terms of a nation's survival, but we insist on more even knowing its consequences.

    Open racism/sexism against the most productive class - white men. Etc. My local school had three lock-downs this semester where children were forced to huddle in dark classrooms on the floor and stay still. They had to pee and poop in the class garbage cans. Because they heard gunshots in the distance, as they do daily in this rural Alaska community bordering a military base.

    Parents write in to our community facebook page about how grateful they are their children were held hostage and abused like this. You are a dangerous, violent threat if you disagree and the platform's censorship protocols guarantee this is the prevailing public view.

    I don't do twitter or television but in reading actual journalism in the alternative media demonstrates people are delusional and under mass hysteria as opposed to "adolescent".

    An adolescent, a century ago, is superior in emotional maturity, critical thinking, and morality than an adult today.

    We are a disgrace. My family is immigrating out. To a safe country where we have freedom. I just have to keep working until retirement, and then we're out of here.

    I don’t understand the incident you describe and the actual and the purported rationale involved.

    Read More
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  45. @J.Ross
    Apparently home invasions are the new hotness in Australia. It's not being reported though. Oh, and somehow the home invaders always have guns. That's funny.

    Oh, and somehow the home invaders always have guns. That’s funny.

    Well, there’s another side to every story, Mr. Ross. Most of these home invaders can’t read … you know … the “Gun-free Zone” signs and the laws …. on the internet … see. Yeah, that’s it. They need more money for education. That’ll end the violcnce.

    Read More
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  46. @Lot

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we’d get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.
     
    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.

    After the backlog cleared in 6-10 years (educated guess), then there would be a significant reduction, but still not 2/3 since the lack of a long wait would encourage more immediate family migration.

    Long term, chain migration reform like this would be very significant. Short term, the best thing on the table is ending the diversity lottery, cutting the president's annual refugee number even further (how about 200 for 2018?) and ending TPS.

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.

    Logically all the applications in the backlog for a class of immigrant that’s no longer allowed should be cancelled immediately when the law changes, but that’s unlikely to happen.

    Good info. My point isn’t that we should definitely take the deal, it’s that we should know and talk about the numbers involved. To the extent that winning debates matters (which is little), we can win the immigration debate much more easily if it’s about numbers than if it’s about feels and ideas.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Win all the "immigration debates" you like, but the fact remains that if all immigration stopped dead flat tomorrow we'd still be sunk because of demographic trends.

    Our delightful Democrats and Republicans have already imported enough third-world refuse to guarantee this. Minority status and eventual slavery for white gentiles.

    The only real solution is to reverse the trend by exporting immigrants already here, by the millions, not the thousands, and including many who have attained legal status by hook or by crook.

    When that's on the table maybe I'll believe that the "Overton Window" has actually shifted. Don't hold your breath.

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  47. @Anonymous
    In fact, the experiment of mass of importation of a defiantly non compatible tropical, third world population into a predominantly white society *was* performed in historical times, the experiment being, of course, negro slavery in the USA.

    The ultimate result of that experiment are painfully obvious to anyone with eyes to see.
    The mystery is why the commissioners of the EU are so dead intent on repeating the experiment in the face of such obvious evidence.

    Because you express power by forcing people to do things they don’t want to do. In this case because it is horrible, stupid, self destructive and civilization destroying.

    Read More
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  48. @Lagertha
    well, the elites are very upset with the deplorables and the Republicans (finally found their nuts) messing things up. It's not an Empire.

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation....and see what happens. Entire buildings could be robbed and wiped out...neighborhoods. That's what happened in neighborhoods in Stalin's time. People stole other people's stuff - killed them...and there was no one to save you - no one to protect you. The fact that so few Americans/Europeans know this, surprises me.

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation….and see what happens.

    As much as I have seen Americans wuss out on many Constitutional issues to the point of disgust, I dont think any government would try this. Many patriotic Americans know that the gun thing has got to be the last straw – they understand deep down that the 2nd Amendment wasn’t about hunting and not primarily about self-defense either.*

    No, men would come from states all over the country to make a defense of some sort, some specifically to kill whoever was doing this enforcement. The politicians who lead the left-wing know that direct mass confiscation would be a bad move. That’s why they push for incremental changes, banning this certain type of gun here, retroactively or not, placing taxes on ammunition there, and above all, lying, lying, lying about via the statistics along with having talking points ready for any gun death anywhere that might help their cause.

    It’s been going on like this for as long as I can remember, Lagertha. However, in some areas of the law, due to the NRA’s and many patriot’s work, gun control has been pushed back – concealed carry laws are one thing, but Constitutional carry states are growing in number.

    Image embedding did not work, unfortunately, but the link above is to a great animated year-by-year image that shows the favorable changes from 1986 throught 2017, with green meaning compliance with the US Constitution (as incorporated by the states).

    * You won’t get this from the NRA. They are a good crowd, but they don’t want to say this for political reasons. GOA and patriot web sites are a different story.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Agree. The funny part is: the left pushes for gun laws (conceivably, against AL/Aurora shooter types; perhaps Las Vegas shooter?)...but, boy, with this latter one, the FBI really shot themselves in the foot with Vegas debacle, haha. They thought they could win the public over with the: "he's crazy" but, they got bupkus because even the crazies, these last few years, obtained their guns legally, or have boatloads of guns, legally...or have multiple homes full of guns, legally.

    Circular firing squad becomes more surreal by the day. And, what really irritates me: so many phony progressives I know, have guns. So many progressives are secretly getting guns - women showing up at ranges that I knew from "parent help" days.

    Kinda' funny that they still think I am a liberal. They know I am intense and, have always been, what was said back-in-the-day, a tomboy...so, these suburban women taking lessons in weapons, think they have joined a sort of sorority of sorts....kinda' of a MeToo with a "make my day" attitude. Guns are "power tools". Sheesh, winter is so fracking long in New England.
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  49. @Sunbeam
    "Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,"

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    Excellent question. That was my thought exactly. In fact, after I read that I couldn’t focus on anything else he wrote.

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  50. @Fidelios Automata
    Self-exemption from the law? That describes the Abraham Lincoln administration perfectly!

    Exactly.

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  51. @Alden
    Or attacking Fort Sumpter.

    Sorry, don’t want to start a fight.

    Prompted by Lincoln’s aggression and lies.

    But, yes the South should not have fallen for Lincoln’s trick so quickly. They should’ve stood down the guns longer and made the Northern Aggressors fire first.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    You are making the mistake of thinking leftists are honest. If you don't respond they will kill you anyway and use their control of the media to prevent you from playing the moral superiority card. There is no winning strategy against the left that does not involve killing them first.
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  52. Altai says:

    About 13 years ago I was in Copenhagen and a small, but loud procession (Telling it was overwhelmingly Danes of more well-off backgrounds) went down calling for open borders. It seemed insane and deeply threatening to me at the time, being a typical progressive teenager. I knew there was a tide of humanity that would displace all before it. Nobody dared call for it except fringe movements, certainly you’d never hear it from mainstream parties.

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  53. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @27 year old

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.
     
    Logically all the applications in the backlog for a class of immigrant that's no longer allowed should be cancelled immediately when the law changes, but that's unlikely to happen.

    Good info. My point isn't that we should definitely take the deal, it's that we should know and talk about the numbers involved. To the extent that winning debates matters (which is little), we can win the immigration debate much more easily if it's about numbers than if it's about feels and ideas.

    Win all the “immigration debates” you like, but the fact remains that if all immigration stopped dead flat tomorrow we’d still be sunk because of demographic trends.

    Our delightful Democrats and Republicans have already imported enough third-world refuse to guarantee this. Minority status and eventual slavery for white gentiles.

    The only real solution is to reverse the trend by exporting immigrants already here, by the millions, not the thousands, and including many who have attained legal status by hook or by crook.

    When that’s on the table maybe I’ll believe that the “Overton Window” has actually shifted. Don’t hold your breath.

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  54. Sandmich says:
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    "All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren’t going to like it."

    Be that as it may, I'm starting to think I might prefer the corrupt Chincom functionary style of rule over the current batch of bleating purple-haired polyamorous yellow-scaled wingless dragonkin of indeterminate gender that are running things from their perches at in Human Resources and Higher Education etc.

    You're probably more familiar with the downside of Red China style corruption, please paint the picture for those of us who've never experienced it up close and personal like you have.

    I’ll take a wack at that. In a corrupt, but otherwise well organized, kleptocracy like China or Russia, the law doesn’t apply above a certain level, and pretty much doesn’t exist below that level. Among many other social ills, this leads to clan like behavior where it doesn’t matter what you know, but who you know. It’s like the mafia writ large where every daily move is about making sure the monster swallow you. Businesses only hire family or people to whom they owe favors, or people that they want owing them a favor; people only shop where their “clan” is affiliated; etc. Look for “china nail house” for an example, is there any doubt that the owners of those houses knew someone who knew someone who knew a local communist party apparatchik?

    I agree with the commentator, once the rule of law is gone, it’s very nearly impossible to put back. I’m also tempted to agree with a different commentator in that colonialism (of us, not to other people) may be about the only way to effectively get it back.

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  55. @L Woods
    Where was this when I started grad school. Oh well -- who needs friends/sexual relationships lasting longer than one night/a non-hostile work and study environment. Can't wait to leave this sewer of a city behind.

    Dude, where are you and what are you doing? Get out before you go crazy and wind up bitter and ugly.

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  56. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    In fact, the experiment of mass of importation of a defiantly non compatible tropical, third world population into a predominantly white society *was* performed in historical times, the experiment being, of course, negro slavery in the USA.

    The ultimate result of that experiment are painfully obvious to anyone with eyes to see.
    The mystery is why the commissioners of the EU are so dead intent on repeating the experiment in the face of such obvious evidence.

    Isn’t it cute how the ding-dong Europeans want all the trauma of a post-slavery society, all the crime, welfare, and unemployment, without ever having had the benefits of slavery? At least Americans got some work out of blacks before it all went bad.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Ah!!!, but think of the vibrancy!
    , @Maj. Kong
    There does appear to be an implacable minority of white people that genuinely desire multikult. We should seek solutions that give them the globalism they want, but stop it from harming us. That will prove difficult, as one of the main benefits of immigration for leftists is "rubbing the Right's nose in diversity".

    Allowing major metropolitan areas autonomy like Hong Kong, or outright independence like Singapore would ease tensions.
    , @Seamus Padraig
    In fairness, many of the major European countries did have third world colonies at some point, which were useful for resources and mercantilism. Plus, the Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese and British did have slavery in their colonies of the western hemisphere, even if they didn't permit it back home. So there's that.
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  57. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    "Public discussion of immigration policy in the U.S. now, however, is about at the level of adolescent twitter chat about the Kardashians."
     
    No, the Twitterati actually give much more thought to their Tweets about the Kardashians.

    Open Borders has become a new cult religion, complete with its own totems like, "We are a nation of immigrants, " "Diversity is our strength," and "That's not who we are," the latter now being true because "we" let too many of "them" in and they are now free to decide who else gets in (chain migration ... if only there were actual chains!).

    Immigration has become a cult among the left because the left has far too many first-generation immigrants among them who don’t want their relatives to be stuck in the old country. That’s all it is. If these people were three generations away from immigration, they wouldn’t care.

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  58. @J.Ross
    You can recognize authority or oppose it. (You can really only ignore it if it's very weak.) The government's legitimacy comes into question if enough people disagree. Right now the establishment, the academy, the cities, and the newcomers have a wildly different understanding of everything than the American people. Without this disagreement there can be no demand that the army depart Fort Sumter.

    But secession isn’t “self-exemption from the law.” It is a change of jurisdiction entirely. Perhaps he is referrring to the fugitive slave issue?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding but the only meaning I get is he's trying to locate the spark. The functional basis of the conflict is the challenge to authority (and authority's response). Without that you don't have a war.
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  59. @Lot

    - Limiting chain migration to spouse + minor children would cut new arrivals by 66%.

    So we’d get around 400,000 fewer new arrival immigrants every year. Around a 33% cut in legal immigration, without even looking at the other approximately half of legal immigrants who were already here on visas.
     
    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.

    After the backlog cleared in 6-10 years (educated guess), then there would be a significant reduction, but still not 2/3 since the lack of a long wait would encourage more immediate family migration.

    Long term, chain migration reform like this would be very significant. Short term, the best thing on the table is ending the diversity lottery, cutting the president's annual refugee number even further (how about 200 for 2018?) and ending TPS.

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.

    Is there any reason, legal or otherwise, why these non-citizens should be grandfathered in contrary to the interests of American citizens?

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    • Replies: @Lot
    My prior comments did not assume any grandfathering. That would make the transition period without an actual reduction in annual chain immigrants more like 10+ years.
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  60. KunioKun says:

    The way people generally follow the law in mundane common place things everyday is one of the nicest things about living in the U.S.. There are plenty of places all over the world where having stop signs and red lights at intersections is pointless or impossible because nobody would pay attention to them and/or they would be cut down and stolen. I do not want to live in a place where to cross the road with my family I have to wade into traffic and pray that the drivers will stop.

    The media’s power to manufacture consensus on any topic can’t go away fast enough. Without that they have nothing.

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  61. This commenter is being overly reflective on the current immigration debate. Perhaps it is due to high IQ or something else. Thankfully, I don’t have a high IQ, so I say if it is going to take Civil War II to stop immigration, then so be it. The WASP / Jew ruling class must be destroyed before their nation-wrecking open border immigration plot goes much further.

    DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS

    IMMIGRATION MORATORIUM NOW!

    REPATRIATE AS MANY FOREIGNERS AS THE BARGES AND C-130s WILL HOLD

    DESTROY THE DEEP STATE OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE BEFORE THEY DESTROY THE UNITED STATES

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  62. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Forbes
    By the time "they" lose the argument, it will be too late--the US will have already been sold (down the river).

    The prog-left always argues that the foreseeable consequences just won't happen--and the Queensberry Rules Republicans take the Dems at their word.

    I was reminded of that today at a forum where the 1964 Civil Rights Act was discussed. The floor leader for the Act (as majority whip), Sen. Hubert Humphrey (D-MN), on defending against the accusation that the act would lead to quotas/affirmative action/positive discrimination, insisted such wouldn't happen--and were it to occur, Humphrey would come to the Senate floor and chew-up and swallow (eat) the pages of the legislation.

    So, why didn’t any senator of a sporting disposition challenge Humphrey to keep his word?

    Actually, Teddy Kennedy said exactly the same thing about the long term effects of the 1965 Immigration Act, insisting that it would *never* lead to a mass third world influx to the USA.

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  63. Bill B. says:

    Slightly OT

    I grew up in a s***hole and spent half my life in a s***hole. I have a love-hate relationship with this s***hole. I wish past Presidents of the United States had referred to Bombay, my birthplace, as a s***hole. Perhaps their use of the acrid adjective would have shamed Bombay’s ruling classes into building toilets rather than temples…

    The most expensive work of poop art is in New York’s Guggenheim Museum. The installation by Maurizio Cattelan is a fully functional toilet cast in 18-carat gold, called America. Visitors to the museum are encouraged to relieve themselves on this throne. ‘Come spend a little alone time with America, and you can ponder that meaning for yourself,’ says the museum on its website.

    The meaning is clear. Guggenheim Museum invites you to defecate on America, on ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’, on the American dream, on Western civilisation and on the glories of Western art. This is the great project of the Left. It is the supreme countermove to the project of Judeo-Christianity.

    When upper-caste Hindus forced Indian untouchables to work as scavengers and carry human excreta in wicker baskets on their heads, it was Christian missionaries, not Leftist activists, who touched them and told them God had created them in his image and likeness. Christianity was the only liberating solution to the worst form of racism the world has ever seen – the Hindu caste system.

    It was Christianity and capitalism, not Hinduism and socialism, that transformed India from a s***hole to an economic and educational powerhouse. Donald Trump needs to use the word s***hole more – not merely to describe countries reeking with the stench of corruption, but every institution in the West that the Left seeks to pollute with its reverse Midas touch, especially s***hole art galleries and museums.

    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/one-mans-shole-lefties-work-art/

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  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Isn't it cute how the ding-dong Europeans want all the trauma of a post-slavery society, all the crime, welfare, and unemployment, without ever having had the benefits of slavery? At least Americans got some work out of blacks before it all went bad.

    Ah!!!, but think of the vibrancy!

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  65. Maj. Kong says:
    @Yak-15
    That’s assuming a Dem-run Congress doesn’t reopen the borders. The stand is now and the push back begins with DACA.

    A good idea would be to use Steve’s “Immigration Safety Board”, which he based on the NTSB.

    I would create a board similar to the FCC and the NLRB. Appoint 5 commissioners with the President’s party having a majority, and require a quorum to make a decision. This board will decide the level of immigration into the country, and the jurisdiction of the federal courts will be limited so they cannot interfere.

    This would remove the power to set the immigration levels from the President and Congress, in the same way that control of the money supply is held by the Federal Reserve and not by the Treasury.

    A Dem Congress would find it hard to fill the seats consistently in the frequent examples of divided government, and if there is no quorum then immigration ceases.

    https://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/04/time-for-national-immigration-safety.html

    If we have to worry about a future Dem Congress undoing Trump, even this solution would be temporary at best. Partition or Putin would be the best permanent solutions.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    That is a reasonable, pragmatic solution that may rationally decide an important policy. Unfortunately, Immigration is a central tenet of an intolerant and incredibly destructive religious cult so it will never happen.
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  66. Maj. Kong says:
    @Anon
    Isn't it cute how the ding-dong Europeans want all the trauma of a post-slavery society, all the crime, welfare, and unemployment, without ever having had the benefits of slavery? At least Americans got some work out of blacks before it all went bad.

    There does appear to be an implacable minority of white people that genuinely desire multikult. We should seek solutions that give them the globalism they want, but stop it from harming us. That will prove difficult, as one of the main benefits of immigration for leftists is “rubbing the Right’s nose in diversity”.

    Allowing major metropolitan areas autonomy like Hong Kong, or outright independence like Singapore would ease tensions.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Of course, there is the option for the leftists to actually emigrate *to* the cultures they so love.

    Don't hold your breath.
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  67. @The preferred nomenclature is...
    Prompted by Lincoln's aggression and lies.

    But, yes the South should not have fallen for Lincoln's trick so quickly. They should've stood down the guns longer and made the Northern Aggressors fire first.

    You are making the mistake of thinking leftists are honest. If you don’t respond they will kill you anyway and use their control of the media to prevent you from playing the moral superiority card. There is no winning strategy against the left that does not involve killing them first.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This, not enough publicity can be spent on that Vietnam vet who infiltrated the SDS and heard them calmly discussing the mass extermination of dissidents in camps, once the leftists take over. In every country, even Grenada, the first thing commies in power do is set up the apparatus of death.
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  68. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Maj. Kong
    There does appear to be an implacable minority of white people that genuinely desire multikult. We should seek solutions that give them the globalism they want, but stop it from harming us. That will prove difficult, as one of the main benefits of immigration for leftists is "rubbing the Right's nose in diversity".

    Allowing major metropolitan areas autonomy like Hong Kong, or outright independence like Singapore would ease tensions.

    Of course, there is the option for the leftists to actually emigrate *to* the cultures they so love.

    Don’t hold your breath.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Think of it from their perspective: Why would you allow genocidal fascists to control any piece of territory?

    If it were up to the left, Messers. Unz, Derbyshire and Sailer would be imprisoned and sities of this nature would be banned. Those of us not killed or jailed would be drugged.

    Leftists seem to think they are being overly generous to even let the right wing peacefully participate in the political process.

    This is your brain on the Frankfurt School.
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  69. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Samuel Skinner
    You are making the mistake of thinking leftists are honest. If you don't respond they will kill you anyway and use their control of the media to prevent you from playing the moral superiority card. There is no winning strategy against the left that does not involve killing them first.

    This, not enough publicity can be spent on that Vietnam vet who infiltrated the SDS and heard them calmly discussing the mass extermination of dissidents in camps, once the leftists take over. In every country, even Grenada, the first thing commies in power do is set up the apparatus of death.

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  70. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Opinionator
    But secession isn't "self-exemption from the law." It is a change of jurisdiction entirely. Perhaps he is referrring to the fugitive slave issue?

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding but the only meaning I get is he’s trying to locate the spark. The functional basis of the conflict is the challenge to authority (and authority’s response). Without that you don’t have a war.

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  71. @Alden
    2,410 more H1 b visas means 2,410 highly skilled jobs denied to Americans.

    Drs, accountants, nurses, programmers, engineers research scientists, all jobs Americans just won’t do.

    2,410 H1b Visas also means 12,000 other immigrants (family plus parents) when they ultimately convert to citizen status. Every time I return to the States via Dallas I see 20+ wheel chairs for the elderly parents of Indians in Dallas, not to mention those walking.

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  72. Maj. Kong says:
    @Anonymous
    Of course, there is the option for the leftists to actually emigrate *to* the cultures they so love.

    Don't hold your breath.

    Think of it from their perspective: Why would you allow genocidal fascists to control any piece of territory?

    If it were up to the left, Messers. Unz, Derbyshire and Sailer would be imprisoned and sities of this nature would be banned. Those of us not killed or jailed would be drugged.

    Leftists seem to think they are being overly generous to even let the right wing peacefully participate in the political process.

    This is your brain on the Frankfurt School.

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  73. Sean says:

    But when Jeff Bezos, CIA contractor, funds $33 million of scholarships for illegals, that’s normal, laudatory?

    The Gateses could make 33 million go a long way in Africa, so no what Bezos is doing isn’t commendable from a humanitarian-universalist viewpoint.

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  74. Bill P says:
    @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    "All these billionaires are going to shortly find themselves tributaries to China, and they aren’t going to like it."

    Be that as it may, I'm starting to think I might prefer the corrupt Chincom functionary style of rule over the current batch of bleating purple-haired polyamorous yellow-scaled wingless dragonkin of indeterminate gender that are running things from their perches at in Human Resources and Higher Education etc.

    You're probably more familiar with the downside of Red China style corruption, please paint the picture for those of us who've never experienced it up close and personal like you have.

    As a foreigner, I never experienced it like the Chinese do, but I learned a fair amount just from watching and listening. There is an enormous amount of human cruelty in authoritarian countries without true rule of law. Part of this is simply what you have to do to survive. The humiliations I saw Chinese people endure were more extreme than I’ve seen anywhere else. But still they take it surprisingly well.

    There’s a sort of social darwinism at work that favors the most ruthless and cunning. Those who are neither will never get anywhere in life. For the powerful, following the law is optional. The harder and dirtier your job, the lower your pay. Sex is an outright commodity, without even the customary fig leaf of romance.

    Disputes are settled with violence. Simple street vendors gang up and club their rivals to keep them out of their territory. Death sentences are handed out like candy, and rapidly administered. People with no civil remedy for their grievances, such as farmers who face land seizure, often resort to riots. Sometimes these riots are put down with deadly force.

    The class distinctions are profound, and actually enforced by the law. Those without permission to live in the city are ruthlessly exploited, and prevented from living openly (illegal immigrants in the US have it much better than people with no internal passport in China), yet there’s no serious effort to keep them out due to the cheap labor they provide. Because they have this status, one can hire them on the cheap for anything one might find them useful for — housekeeping, service work, sex, various dangerous, back-breaking jobs and so on.

    When there is flooding, the waters are diverted to areas where the people are less powerful. There is nothing they can do about it.

    Religious people are persecuted to the point where they have to practice their faith in secret. Fake products, cheaters and scammers are everywhere. Every other “doctor” is a quack. Chinese people rip each other off relentlessly, but if they get caught doing the same to the party the consequences are very severe.

    That’s just getting started.

    China is not a terrible place, mostly because ordinary Chinese are pretty good people, but it has a long way to go and a lot of catching up to do. Putting CCP officials in charge of Western societies would be a disaster, as they would ruin them in short order. The idea that we have anything to learn from Mainland China in terms of governance could only come about because our elites have engaged in a multi-decade ripoff of the American people with the PRC as their main accomplice; in order to hide the magnitude of their crime, our own elites have softened China’s image considerably. This way the truth about their irresponsibility in enriching what is turning out to be a hostile, authoritarian regime at the expense of the American working and middle class doesn’t look quite so bad.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    That sounds awful, but in many ways similar to Imperial and Nationalist China.

    As for persecution of Falun Gong, the last mass mystical physical fitness cult (Boxers) did not go well.
    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    Very interesting. Great perspective. Thanks for sharing.
    Your remarks are real gems here I always look forward to reading.

    Not only have you a great eye for detail that fuels your wisdom of real world experience but you pair that with a great clarity and a style that pulls no punches. Also it's refreshing how sincere and authentic your human compassion is for the ordinary people caught in the hardship and suffering under the powerful and exploitative that are deserving of your contempt.

    As economic activity and opportunity becomes ever more concentrated in America's few crowded and expensive "Winner" cities, I wonder if they'll evolve informal systems of restriction that in practice converge with and resemble China's Hukou more than we can imagine? While we may abandon external national borders, internal barriers will likely increase to insulate people from the unpleasantness and confrontations that waste their time and drain their mental energy. Already gated communities, secured campuses and business improvement districts struggle to assert order against the anarchy, asocial behavior and filth that have been invited, subsidized and enabled by elected civic officials. Meanwhile, like China's "illegal" but tolerated internal migrants, our immigrants and ambitious hopeful young people crowd into apartments and homes to levels of squalor and hardship that would shock ordinary Americans not accustomed to the lifestyles of $hithole favelas.

    Classical economics suggests that in open global economies, incomes eventually converge worldwide.
    Should we perhaps also expect cultures and lifestyles converge to adapt to similarly crowded brutal inhuman urban life?

    ------

    I'd certainly welcome a chance to connect, online or in person if you're ever in Seattle.

    To look me up, private message me on Twitter @euneaux.
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  75. Joe Sweet says:
    @Sunbeam
    "Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,"

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    “Self-exemption from the law triggered the U.S. Civil War,”

    What does this mean? Literally never heard this one before.

    I take it to mean that when the North “self-exempted from the rule of law”, namely by disregarding the South’s legal right to secede from the Union, the Civil War was triggered.

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  76. Yak-15 says:
    @Maj. Kong
    A good idea would be to use Steve's "Immigration Safety Board", which he based on the NTSB.

    I would create a board similar to the FCC and the NLRB. Appoint 5 commissioners with the President's party having a majority, and require a quorum to make a decision. This board will decide the level of immigration into the country, and the jurisdiction of the federal courts will be limited so they cannot interfere.

    This would remove the power to set the immigration levels from the President and Congress, in the same way that control of the money supply is held by the Federal Reserve and not by the Treasury.

    A Dem Congress would find it hard to fill the seats consistently in the frequent examples of divided government, and if there is no quorum then immigration ceases.

    https://isteve.blogspot.com/2013/04/time-for-national-immigration-safety.html

    ---

    If we have to worry about a future Dem Congress undoing Trump, even this solution would be temporary at best. Partition or Putin would be the best permanent solutions.

    That is a reasonable, pragmatic solution that may rationally decide an important policy. Unfortunately, Immigration is a central tenet of an intolerant and incredibly destructive religious cult so it will never happen.

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  77. @Anon
    Isn't it cute how the ding-dong Europeans want all the trauma of a post-slavery society, all the crime, welfare, and unemployment, without ever having had the benefits of slavery? At least Americans got some work out of blacks before it all went bad.

    In fairness, many of the major European countries did have third world colonies at some point, which were useful for resources and mercantilism. Plus, the Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese and British did have slavery in their colonies of the western hemisphere, even if they didn’t permit it back home. So there’s that.

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  78. Lot says:
    @Opinionator

    My understanding is there is a huge backlog/waitlist, so ending chain migration of siblings and parents of citizens would have no effect on the actual numbers of new permanent resident legal immigrants for many years.
     
    Is there any reason, legal or otherwise, why these non-citizens should be grandfathered in contrary to the interests of American citizens?

    My prior comments did not assume any grandfathering. That would make the transition period without an actual reduction in annual chain immigrants more like 10+ years.

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  79. Lot says:
    @Bill P
    As a foreigner, I never experienced it like the Chinese do, but I learned a fair amount just from watching and listening. There is an enormous amount of human cruelty in authoritarian countries without true rule of law. Part of this is simply what you have to do to survive. The humiliations I saw Chinese people endure were more extreme than I've seen anywhere else. But still they take it surprisingly well.

    There's a sort of social darwinism at work that favors the most ruthless and cunning. Those who are neither will never get anywhere in life. For the powerful, following the law is optional. The harder and dirtier your job, the lower your pay. Sex is an outright commodity, without even the customary fig leaf of romance.

    Disputes are settled with violence. Simple street vendors gang up and club their rivals to keep them out of their territory. Death sentences are handed out like candy, and rapidly administered. People with no civil remedy for their grievances, such as farmers who face land seizure, often resort to riots. Sometimes these riots are put down with deadly force.

    The class distinctions are profound, and actually enforced by the law. Those without permission to live in the city are ruthlessly exploited, and prevented from living openly (illegal immigrants in the US have it much better than people with no internal passport in China), yet there's no serious effort to keep them out due to the cheap labor they provide. Because they have this status, one can hire them on the cheap for anything one might find them useful for -- housekeeping, service work, sex, various dangerous, back-breaking jobs and so on.

    When there is flooding, the waters are diverted to areas where the people are less powerful. There is nothing they can do about it.

    Religious people are persecuted to the point where they have to practice their faith in secret. Fake products, cheaters and scammers are everywhere. Every other "doctor" is a quack. Chinese people rip each other off relentlessly, but if they get caught doing the same to the party the consequences are very severe.

    That's just getting started.

    China is not a terrible place, mostly because ordinary Chinese are pretty good people, but it has a long way to go and a lot of catching up to do. Putting CCP officials in charge of Western societies would be a disaster, as they would ruin them in short order. The idea that we have anything to learn from Mainland China in terms of governance could only come about because our elites have engaged in a multi-decade ripoff of the American people with the PRC as their main accomplice; in order to hide the magnitude of their crime, our own elites have softened China's image considerably. This way the truth about their irresponsibility in enriching what is turning out to be a hostile, authoritarian regime at the expense of the American working and middle class doesn't look quite so bad.

    That sounds awful, but in many ways similar to Imperial and Nationalist China.

    As for persecution of Falun Gong, the last mass mystical physical fitness cult (Boxers) did not go well.

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  80. Lagertha says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    In some ways, it would be interesting to see a state like NY or CA push for gun restriction/confiscation….and see what happens.
     
    As much as I have seen Americans wuss out on many Constitutional issues to the point of disgust, I dont think any government would try this. Many patriotic Americans know that the gun thing has got to be the last straw - they understand deep down that the 2nd Amendment wasn't about hunting and not primarily about self-defense either.*

    No, men would come from states all over the country to make a defense of some sort, some specifically to kill whoever was doing this enforcement. The politicians who lead the left-wing know that direct mass confiscation would be a bad move. That's why they push for incremental changes, banning this certain type of gun here, retroactively or not, placing taxes on ammunition there, and above all, lying, lying, lying about via the statistics along with having talking points ready for any gun death anywhere that might help their cause.

    It's been going on like this for as long as I can remember, Lagertha. However, in some areas of the law, due to the NRA's and many patriot's work, gun control has been pushed back - concealed carry laws are one thing, but Constitutional carry states are growing in number.

    Image embedding did not work, unfortunately, but the link above is to a great animated year-by-year image that shows the favorable changes from 1986 throught 2017, with green meaning compliance with the US Constitution (as incorporated by the states).


    * You won't get this from the NRA. They are a good crowd, but they don't want to say this for political reasons. GOA and patriot web sites are a different story.

    Agree. The funny part is: the left pushes for gun laws (conceivably, against AL/Aurora shooter types; perhaps Las Vegas shooter?)…but, boy, with this latter one, the FBI really shot themselves in the foot with Vegas debacle, haha. They thought they could win the public over with the: “he’s crazy” but, they got bupkus because even the crazies, these last few years, obtained their guns legally, or have boatloads of guns, legally…or have multiple homes full of guns, legally.

    Circular firing squad becomes more surreal by the day. And, what really irritates me: so many phony progressives I know, have guns. So many progressives are secretly getting guns – women showing up at ranges that I knew from “parent help” days.

    Kinda’ funny that they still think I am a liberal. They know I am intense and, have always been, what was said back-in-the-day, a tomboy…so, these suburban women taking lessons in weapons, think they have joined a sort of sorority of sorts….kinda’ of a MeToo with a “make my day” attitude. Guns are “power tools”. Sheesh, winter is so fracking long in New England.

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    Sorry that I didn't see your reply till just now, Lagertha. I think lefties owning guns can only be a good thing. Just the responsibility has got to have an effect on their attitudes. They will be a little more likely to support the gun-rights pols, I suppose, but only when it's gonna affect them personally, of course.

    Stay warm up there in New Albion!
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  81. @Bill P
    As a foreigner, I never experienced it like the Chinese do, but I learned a fair amount just from watching and listening. There is an enormous amount of human cruelty in authoritarian countries without true rule of law. Part of this is simply what you have to do to survive. The humiliations I saw Chinese people endure were more extreme than I've seen anywhere else. But still they take it surprisingly well.

    There's a sort of social darwinism at work that favors the most ruthless and cunning. Those who are neither will never get anywhere in life. For the powerful, following the law is optional. The harder and dirtier your job, the lower your pay. Sex is an outright commodity, without even the customary fig leaf of romance.

    Disputes are settled with violence. Simple street vendors gang up and club their rivals to keep them out of their territory. Death sentences are handed out like candy, and rapidly administered. People with no civil remedy for their grievances, such as farmers who face land seizure, often resort to riots. Sometimes these riots are put down with deadly force.

    The class distinctions are profound, and actually enforced by the law. Those without permission to live in the city are ruthlessly exploited, and prevented from living openly (illegal immigrants in the US have it much better than people with no internal passport in China), yet there's no serious effort to keep them out due to the cheap labor they provide. Because they have this status, one can hire them on the cheap for anything one might find them useful for -- housekeeping, service work, sex, various dangerous, back-breaking jobs and so on.

    When there is flooding, the waters are diverted to areas where the people are less powerful. There is nothing they can do about it.

    Religious people are persecuted to the point where they have to practice their faith in secret. Fake products, cheaters and scammers are everywhere. Every other "doctor" is a quack. Chinese people rip each other off relentlessly, but if they get caught doing the same to the party the consequences are very severe.

    That's just getting started.

    China is not a terrible place, mostly because ordinary Chinese are pretty good people, but it has a long way to go and a lot of catching up to do. Putting CCP officials in charge of Western societies would be a disaster, as they would ruin them in short order. The idea that we have anything to learn from Mainland China in terms of governance could only come about because our elites have engaged in a multi-decade ripoff of the American people with the PRC as their main accomplice; in order to hide the magnitude of their crime, our own elites have softened China's image considerably. This way the truth about their irresponsibility in enriching what is turning out to be a hostile, authoritarian regime at the expense of the American working and middle class doesn't look quite so bad.

    Very interesting. Great perspective. Thanks for sharing.
    Your remarks are real gems here I always look forward to reading.

    Not only have you a great eye for detail that fuels your wisdom of real world experience but you pair that with a great clarity and a style that pulls no punches. Also it’s refreshing how sincere and authentic your human compassion is for the ordinary people caught in the hardship and suffering under the powerful and exploitative that are deserving of your contempt.

    As economic activity and opportunity becomes ever more concentrated in America’s few crowded and expensive “Winner” cities, I wonder if they’ll evolve informal systems of restriction that in practice converge with and resemble China’s Hukou more than we can imagine? While we may abandon external national borders, internal barriers will likely increase to insulate people from the unpleasantness and confrontations that waste their time and drain their mental energy. Already gated communities, secured campuses and business improvement districts struggle to assert order against the anarchy, asocial behavior and filth that have been invited, subsidized and enabled by elected civic officials. Meanwhile, like China’s “illegal” but tolerated internal migrants, our immigrants and ambitious hopeful young people crowd into apartments and homes to levels of squalor and hardship that would shock ordinary Americans not accustomed to the lifestyles of $hithole favelas.

    Classical economics suggests that in open global economies, incomes eventually converge worldwide.
    Should we perhaps also expect cultures and lifestyles converge to adapt to similarly crowded brutal inhuman urban life?

    ——

    I’d certainly welcome a chance to connect, online or in person if you’re ever in Seattle.

    To look me up, private message me on Twitter @euneaux.

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  82. @Lagertha
    Agree. The funny part is: the left pushes for gun laws (conceivably, against AL/Aurora shooter types; perhaps Las Vegas shooter?)...but, boy, with this latter one, the FBI really shot themselves in the foot with Vegas debacle, haha. They thought they could win the public over with the: "he's crazy" but, they got bupkus because even the crazies, these last few years, obtained their guns legally, or have boatloads of guns, legally...or have multiple homes full of guns, legally.

    Circular firing squad becomes more surreal by the day. And, what really irritates me: so many phony progressives I know, have guns. So many progressives are secretly getting guns - women showing up at ranges that I knew from "parent help" days.

    Kinda' funny that they still think I am a liberal. They know I am intense and, have always been, what was said back-in-the-day, a tomboy...so, these suburban women taking lessons in weapons, think they have joined a sort of sorority of sorts....kinda' of a MeToo with a "make my day" attitude. Guns are "power tools". Sheesh, winter is so fracking long in New England.

    Sorry that I didn’t see your reply till just now, Lagertha. I think lefties owning guns can only be a good thing. Just the responsibility has got to have an effect on their attitudes. They will be a little more likely to support the gun-rights pols, I suppose, but only when it’s gonna affect them personally, of course.

    Stay warm up there in New Albion!

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