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From Showbiz411:

Rupert Murdoch Defends Moses Movie Casting: “Since When Are Egyptians Not White?”

by Roger Friedman – November 28, 2014 11:00 pm

Rupert Murdoch took to Twitter tonight to defend 20th Century Fox’s new movie “Exodus” that casts Christian Bale as Moses, and a variety of white actors as Egyptians. There’s been scuffle on Twitter ever since Murdoch made his observations.

Screenshot 2014-11-29 17.03.03

Well, Anwar Sadat was fairly black.

When I met Los Angeles mayor Tom Bradley in mid-1981, I was struck by how much he reminded me of Anwar Sadat, whose picture was omnipresent in the news then, just before Sadat’s assassination.

Presumably, blacks aren’t up in arms about black actors not being cast as Hebrews, but instead are angry about blacks not being cast as Egyptian pharaohs, even though they are supposed to be the bad guys in the movie. Joel Edgerton, the Australian actor who played arch-hate figure Tom Buchanan in the recent Great Gatsby, plays the Yul Brynner role of Ramses.

That reminds me that African-Americans used to identify with the slaves in the Exodus story, but since about 1990 when Afrocentrism became a big deal, African-Americans now tend to identify with the slavemasters.

By the way, over the decades there has been a lot of joking about gentile Charlton Heston playing Moses in Cecil B. DeMille’s The Ten Commandments. Perhaps having a guy named Christian play Moses is the real problem here. (Bale’s English on both sides — oddly enough, Gloria Steinem was his stepmother for a few years, but Christian’s mother was David Bale’s previous wife.)

Likewise, Aaron Paul (Jesse Pinkman on Breaking Bad) plays Moses’ military leader Joshua. Paul is from Boise and his father is a Baptist minister.

In general, there aren’t a lot of fully (by ancestry) Jewish leading men in Hollywood. For example, Scorsese casting the gentile Leonardo DiCaprio as The Wolf of Wall Street neutered a lot of the point of the memoir the movie is based upon, but DiCaprio is a huge star and definitely didn’t phone this performance in.

Fully Jewish leading men include Paul Rudd and Joseph Gordon-Levitt (although everybody thinks, to his irritation, that his grandmother must have had a little Asian in her). Both, like DiCaprio, are in the contemporary boyish mode, while Bale (even though he was a child star of sorts) is more grown up for his age, which seems appropriate for Moses.

In a decade, Andrew Garfield (currently playing Spider-Man) will likely be a fine all-around choice for a leading man, but he’s too young to play Moses at present.

 
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  1. Black mythology says the ancient Egyptians were black and the Greeks then Romans stole their culture. That means western civilization is rooted in Africa.

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    • Replies: @donut
    And in over 5000 years they haven't managed to replace it.
    , @Joe Walker
    Black mythology also says that Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin were saints.
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  2. Anwat Sadat’s mother is of Sudanese extraction. Murdoch is more or less right though. A good approximation of what ancient Egyptians looked like are Egyptian Copts. They intermarry and withstood the Arab invasion which brought to Egypt “black” DNA via the Arabian Peninsula.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Black DNA in Egypt predates the Arab invasions. The ancient Egyptians trafficked in slaves up the Nile from sub-Saharan Africa.
    , @Karl
    The Coptic language lives. There is a small center at the Public Library of the city of Sderot, dedicated to archiving language instructional materials for the renaissance of Gaza as a Coptic-language ruled, non-Arabic-colonized indigenous community.
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  3. When casting an actor to play Moses, a great leader of men, charisma is even more important than age. Between them, Rudd, Levitt and Garfield couldn’t dominate a litter of puppies.

    There are obviously Jewish alpha males who are executives in Hollywood, are there any actors?

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    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    Jewish alpha males are generally not that good-looking. Sheldon Adelson, for example.
    , @Father O'Hara
    Adam Sandler?
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  4. Does Downey count?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Downey is, what, 1/4th Jewish?

    There have been a lot of part-Jewish leading men going back at least to Paul Newman, as Adam Sandler has noted.

    , @syonredux

    Does Downey count?
     
    No; he's only one quarter Jewish:

    Downey was born in Manhattan, New York, the younger of two children. His father, Robert Downey, Sr., is an actor and filmmaker, while his mother, Elsie Ann (née Ford), was also an actress, who appeared in Downey, Sr.'s films.[3] Downey's father is of half Lithuanian Jewish and half Irish and Hungarian descent, while Downey's mother has Scottish, German, and Swiss ancestry.
     
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  5. Perhaps having a guy named Christian play Moses is the real problem here.

    I don’t think so. Scanning the “lumpengentsia” (great phrase, Steve) sites, the only uproar that I can detect centers around Ridley Scott hiring actors of European descent*.For example, here’s a recent piece from the MARY SUE:

    http://www.themarysue.com/christian-bale-exodus-whitewashing/

    *One of the really fascinating developments of recent years is how the “race-does-not-exist” crowd has come to embrace the most extreme versions of late 19th-early 20th century racial attitudes. For example, they seem to think that European and Middle Eastern populations are completely dichotomous.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But a lot of the motivations for attitudes aren't fully spelled out in public.
    , @Priss Factor
    Why did Barry Levinson have goyim play Jews in AVALON and BUGSY?
    Does Beatty look Jewish?

    Why did Hollywood have Montgomery Clift play a Jew in YOUNG LIONS?

    And why does Hollywood cast blacks as Moors? Moors had some black DNA but didn't look like sub-saharan blacks.
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  6. @IHTG
    Does Downey count?

    Downey is, what, 1/4th Jewish?

    There have been a lot of part-Jewish leading men going back at least to Paul Newman, as Adam Sandler has noted.

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    • Replies: @Bee
    As it turns out, Downey is actually 3/8ths Jewish.

    Why "part Jewish" leading men? The 1950s were the golden age of Jewish leading men, like Kirk Douglas, Tony Curtis, Cornel Wilde, John Garfield, Jean-Pierre Aumont, Gene Barry, John Garfiled, Laurence Harvey, Jeff Chandler, and others, all of whom are/were fully Jewish.

    BTW, if it's a requirement that an actor be fully Jewish, then it should be a requirement for other ethnic groups, too (i.e. only full-blooded Italians play Italians, which would put a lot of people out of work, and you called Paul Giamatti Italian even though he's 1/4).

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  7. The race of Egyptians is an interesting topic.

    It’s been fairly common over the last couple decades for blacks to consider Egyptians black. After all, it’s arguably the best claim for an actually black civilization (though it’s somewhat inconvenient that it’s 6000 years old). As such, you can see quite a few NFL players, for example, with Egyptian tattoos. Could any “fact” possibly be more politically correct the the “fact” that the first civilization was created by blacks?

    On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians are pretty clearly not black. Their actual descendants, the Copts, are still around and are rather distinctive looking. They’re also extremely successful. I remember reading a while back that they’re the most over-represented group in various high-profile professions in America (specifically surgeons, if I recall correctly). For what it’s worth, they’re not exactly close with sub-Saharans or Arabs (the latter they really don’t like). The teaching company has a good course on the ancient Egyptians and the professor devotes most of a lecture on whether or not they were black. Short answer is “no.”

    Fortunately, America is busy bringing democracy to Egypt, so the Copts probably won’t be around much longer. A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    There was a Copt in my karate school when I was younger. His mother was a physician working for the VA or something, and he was pursuing a PhD in math. He had Caucasian features and hair but a dark complection - if you didn't know he was a Copt, you'd probably guess he was Indian. But he identified with African American culture, listening to rap, etc.
    , @josh
    Hey, How've ya been?
    , @Truth

    It’s been fairly common over the last couple decades for blacks to consider Egyptians black. ..On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians are pretty clearly not black. Their actual descendants, the Copts, are still around and are rather distinctive looking.
     
    Not too distinctive, if you live in Ethiopia:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copts#mediaviewer/File:Coptic_monks.jpg
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  8. Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

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    • Replies: @Southfarthing
    I was going to say Liev Schreiber, but Wikipedia describes his father as a mix of: "German, Swiss-German, Danish, Dutch, English, French, Irish, Norwegian, Belgian (Flemish), Scottish, and Welsh."

    So that's 12 ancestries total.

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  9. Adam Pascal (Roger in Rent) is mostly a Broadway actor, but he did play an Egyptian once (Radames in Aida).

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  10. Presumably, blacks aren’t up in arms about black actors not being cast as Hebrews, but instead are angry about blacks not being cast as Egyptian pharaohs, even though they are supposed to be the bad guys in the movie.

    I’m not so sure about that, Steve; from what I’ve seen, I think that Blacks would very much like to see both Moses and Ramses played by Black actors. There’s a lot of curious mythologizing at work in the Black community.*

    * http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/

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  11. @IHTG
    Does Downey count?

    Does Downey count?

    No; he’s only one quarter Jewish:

    Downey was born in Manhattan, New York, the younger of two children. His father, Robert Downey, Sr., is an actor and filmmaker, while his mother, Elsie Ann (née Ford), was also an actress, who appeared in Downey, Sr.’s films.[3] Downey’s father is of half Lithuanian Jewish and half Irish and Hungarian descent, while Downey’s mother has Scottish, German, and Swiss ancestry.

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    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Downey's rather good looking for all those ethnicities being mixed up in him..I guess the Irish predominates?
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  12. @Foseti
    The race of Egyptians is an interesting topic.

    It's been fairly common over the last couple decades for blacks to consider Egyptians black. After all, it's arguably the best claim for an actually black civilization (though it's somewhat inconvenient that it's 6000 years old). As such, you can see quite a few NFL players, for example, with Egyptian tattoos. Could any "fact" possibly be more politically correct the the "fact" that the first civilization was created by blacks?

    On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians are pretty clearly not black. Their actual descendants, the Copts, are still around and are rather distinctive looking. They're also extremely successful. I remember reading a while back that they're the most over-represented group in various high-profile professions in America (specifically surgeons, if I recall correctly). For what it's worth, they're not exactly close with sub-Saharans or Arabs (the latter they really don't like). The teaching company has a good course on the ancient Egyptians and the professor devotes most of a lecture on whether or not they were black. Short answer is "no."

    Fortunately, America is busy bringing democracy to Egypt, so the Copts probably won't be around much longer. A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy.

    There was a Copt in my karate school when I was younger. His mother was a physician working for the VA or something, and he was pursuing a PhD in math. He had Caucasian features and hair but a dark complection – if you didn’t know he was a Copt, you’d probably guess he was Indian. But he identified with African American culture, listening to rap, etc.

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  13. Paul Rudd is 45 years old, but could pass for 25.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    But not for Moses.
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  14. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Foseti said:

    “A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy.”

    Puritans have as much influence on US foreign policy as ancient Egyptians. Color revolutions are created and managed by neocons. The allusion to Puritans wasn’t random for Foseti. He is a member of the cult of moldbuggery. Blaming Puritans and their descendants for things done by Jews is a central tenet of the cult.

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    • Replies: @Robbie
    When I saw the word 'Puritanical' I was like 'oh here we again!'

    A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for Judaic territorial expansion.

    I fixed it.
    , @Dutch Boy
    Just as organized crime got pinned on Sicilians/Italians instead of you know who.
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  15. The same Afrocentrics who glee with delight over the Sicilian scene in “True Romance”, also glee with excitement over the thought of the Jewish people having Black blood pumping through their hearts.

    Jews also get the Black brush from Afrocentrics, just like the Italians. Afrocentric claim the reason Jews today have White phenotypes is because the original Black Hebrews mixed with Eastern Europeans to the point where the Sub Saharan African phenotype of the Hebrew people was completely race mixed out of existence.

    They say the Black phenotype was race mixed out of the Jews just like the Black phenotype was race mixed out of Argentina.

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    • Replies: @Bobbala
    ... so success is being anything as long as the black has been removed???
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  16. Frank Snowden, a Black Classical scholar, takes on the “Black Egypt” myth:

    There are others who ignore the primary sources pertaining to the black population in the ancient world and maintain that almost all inhabitants of Africa were black. Two recent publications, Black Women in Antiquity and African Presence in Early Europe, both edited by Ivan Van Sertima, [8] fall into this category. Although many of the writers in these two volumes at times use the terms “African” and “Africoid” loosely’ these words are clearly used regularly as equivalents of Negroid types. Such an equivalency, though contradicted by the ancient evidence, is stated as follows by Chancellor Williams: ” In ancient times ‘African’ and ‘Ethiopian’ were used interchangeably because both meant the same thing: a black.” [9] The word Afer (African), however, was generally employed by the Romans to designate populations of the coastal regions of North Africa west of Egypt (e.g. Numidians, Moors), of the Carthaginians and their allies, and of the inhabitants of the Roman province of Africa. “African,” as an adjective, is applied only once to a clearly Negroid type–the detailed description of a black woman in a poem, the Moretum, written in dactylic hexameter. The use of Afer as a cognomen may also in another instance, because of additional evidence, have indicated Negroid extraction–in the name of the well-known Latin poet, Publius Terentius Afer. [10] These usages however, are exceptions, and the only Greek or Latin word that commonly referred to an unquestionably Negroid type, it must be emphasized, was Aithiops (Aethiops), Ethiopian, literally a person with a burnt skin, a colored person–a word that described a variety of black or Negroid types characterized by combinations of dark or black skin, wooly or tightly coiled hair, thick lips, and flat or broad noses.

    Another frequent misconception in some discussions of the populations of the ancient world is the assumption that words or expressions describing people as dark–or black–skinned were always in classical usage the equivalents of “Ethiopians” i.e. Negroes, or, in twentieth century usage, blacks. Greeks and Romans, well acquainted with their contemporaries, differentiated between the various gradations of color in Mediterranean populations and made it clear that only some of the black- or dark-skinned peoples, those coming from the south of Egypt and the southern fringes of northwest Africa, were Ethiopians, i.e. Negroes. Ethiopians, known as the blackest peoples on earth, became the yardstick by which classical authors measured the color of others. In first century AD, Manilius described Ethiopians as the blackest; Indians, less sunburnt; Egyptians, mildly dark; with Moors the lightest in this color scheme. In other words, to all these peoples–Ethiopians, Indians, Egyptians, and Moors–who were darker than the Greeks and Romans, classical authors applied color-words but it should be emphasized that in general the ancients described only one of these–Ethiopians–as unmistakably Negroid. To summarize this point, there is no justification to equate Egyptians, Moors or any other north Africans, with Ethiopians, even when a color-word is applied to them, unless details are given as to other physical traits such as color, hair, nose, or lips, or unless there is additional evidence to support an equivalence with Ethiopian.

    Further, Diop overlooks the fact that classical authors regularly differentiated between Egyptians and Ethiopians. The Indians south of the Ganges, though browned by the sun, Arrian observed, were not so dark as Ethiopians, whereas northern Indians resembled Egyptians. Finally, it should be noted that Egyptian artists at various times from the middle of the third millennium BC onward depicted southerners (Kushites, Nubians) with tightly coiled hair and thick lips–characteristics clearly differing from those in their portrayals of Egyptians. Further, Egyptian painters often used a carbon black color in representations of Kushites, a reddish tint for Egyptian men and a paler hue for Egyptian women. This important evidence does not mean that there were not inhabitants of Egypt who were apparently racially mixed. In fact, the earliest recognizable portrait of a black in Egyptian art is preserved in a limestone head (ca. 2600 BC) of the Negroid wife of an Egyptian prince from Giza, near modern Cairo. [12] The Negroid archers and their Egyptian wives depicted on stelae at Gebelein were not the only soldiers in the Egyptian army whose wives were Egyptians. Flavius Philostratus may also have had mixed black-white types in mind when he observed that people in the neighborhood of the Egyptian-Nubian boundary were not completely black, but half-breeds in color, not so black as Ethiopians but darker than Egyptians.

    Cleopatra and the Joel A. Rogers “Tradition”

    Cleopatra is another example of an “African” who, it has been argued, was a black. In total disregard of the ancient evidence John Henrik Clarke, in a chapter entitled “African Warrior Queens” in Black Women in Antiquity, leaning heavily on the J. A. Rogers’* “tradition,” makes this astonishing statement: “More nonsense has been written about Cleopatra than about any other African queen, mainly because it has been the desire of many writers to paint her white. She was not a white woman, she was not a Greek…Until the emergence of the doctrine of white superiority Cleopatra was generally pictured as a distinct African woman, dark in color.” [13] In support of this statement Clarke cites a strange medley of unconvincing, if not unscholarly items: Shakespeare’s description of the queen in Antony and Cleopatra as “tawny”; Cleopatra’s description of herself as “black” in the Book of Acts; a reference to Cleopatra as “fat and black” in Ripley’s Believe It or Not; and a modern painting of the queen by Earl Sweeney. Cleopatra, however was not even an Egyptian but, like the other Ptolemies, of Macedonian descent. Coins struck by the Ptolemies, including those with portraits of Cleopatra, leave no doubt about their “Caucasoid” or “non-black” physical traits.[14]

    The assumption that a majority of the inhabitants of north Africa such as Numidians, Gaetulians, and Moors, were blacks, is also contradicted by the ancient evidence. Classical accounts clearly distinguish between the light-skinned inhabitants of coastal northwest Africa and the darker Ethiopians who lived on the southern fringes of the area. The ancient sources also point to the presence in northwest Africa of mixed black-white types, strongly suggested by names such as Libyoaethiopes (Libyan Ethiopians), Leucoaethiopes (white Ethiopians) and Melanogeatuli (black Gaetulians), a kind of intermediate population, an amalgam of whites and Ethiopians, and by the descriptions of the Garamantes, classified in some classical texts as Ethiopians but distinguished from Ethiopians by others. [15] Classical accounts of the physical features of northwest Africans are amply confirmed by the iconographical evidence. Mosaics, sculpture in the round, and other art objects from northwest Africa depict the inhabitants as predominantly white and portray relatively few blacks, far fewer than in the art of the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans. [16]

    Hannibal is an additional illustration of an “African” who has been erroneously regarded as black. J.A. Rogers states that the Carthaginians were descendants of the Phoenicians, a Negroid people, and that in fact until the rise of the doctrine of white superiority Hannibal was traditionally known as a black man. [17] In this same tradition, Van Sertima [18] refers to Carthaginians as “a largely Africoid people”, and publishes some illustrations of coins depicting Negroes and elephants in a drawing by Sylvia Bakos, which are markedly similar to coins from central Italy appearing in Blacks in Antiquity, where it is argued that the Negroes represented Hannibal’s mahouts. [19] Van Sertima’s describes the coins were actually Carthaginians. Coins, however, issued in Spain, with portraits of Hannibal’s family, the Barcaids, depict these Carthaginians as Caucasoids, not as blacks. [20] Finally, neither Rogers nor Van Sertima cites any ancient source as a basis for the statement that the peoples who came to Carthage from Phoenicia, located in southwestern Asia at the eastern end of the Mediterranean, were Negroid or Africoid, i.e. blacks.

    http://library.howard.edu/content.php?pid=554250

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  17. “Likewise, Aaron Paul (Jesse Pinkman on Breaking Bad) plays Moses’ military leader Joshua. Paul is from Boise and his father is a Baptist minister.”

    When the Hebrews stand on the east side of the Red Sea, watching Pharoh’s army getting swept away by the flood, does Joshua yell out “Yeah!…………Yahweh, bitch!”?

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    • Replies: @Hubbub
    Probably. And, I hear that Pharaoh was heard to shout from the opposite shore, 'Jesus Holy Christ, would ya fu*kin' look at that!'
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  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Christian Bale, who was an extremely memorable pre-pubescent in Empire of the Sun, playing a hyper-Anglo blonde kid separated from his parents in a WW2 Japanese internment camp, gave a superb performance recently, including a quite credible lumpen Noo Yawk accent, as the totally, absolutely Jewish shtick leading man in American Hustle… a brilliantly written and acted flick all around.

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  19. @snorlax
    Paul Rudd is 45 years old, but could pass for 25.

    But not for Moses.

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  20. Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I’ve known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there’s plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler than the current day models- there’s even evidence of red-headed pharoahs. So somewhere along the way, they started mating with darker folk, including sub-saharan Africans. Are they white? Visibly you wouldn’t think today’s batch are, but likely you’d have thought of their ancient ancestors as white. Seems to match with what we know about other demographic facts. They were highly competent as a white country, but have devolved into incompetence as they’ve gotten more black.

    Of course, blacks are desperate for black achievement, so tend to gloss over this fact, and just pretend that, hey, they’re African, so that means they must be black, and must have been black all along and so ‘our’ ancestors built the pyramids.

    I guess its too much to hope for blacks to ever come to terms with that little inconvenient truth, but white liberals and libertarians should be intelligent enough to come to terms with the fact (if they can think beyond their multiculturalism religion) that it might not be so wise to flood our country with third worlders when we look at historically what has happened to once-great countries that did similar things.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Are they white? Visibly you wouldn’t think today’s batch are, but likely you’d have thought of their ancient ancestors as white.
     
    The ancient Egyptians didn't look like northern Europeans, which is what you're implying here by "white". They looked like Middle Eastern Caucasians, like many of them still do today. Because that's what they were. Hosni Mubarak would be an example of what they looked like. Hosni Mubarak is and looks like a Middle Eastern Caucasian. Is Mubarak thought of as white? That depends if northern European is implied by "white", which is what some people seem to think.
    , @Bliss

    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I’ve known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there’s plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler
     
    The above is a combination of the ignorance, denial and irrationalism that is always found among white racists. Egyptians in general are actually far lighter today than they ever were in ancient times. They mixed with greek and roman settlers for many centuries before being conquered by arabs from the peninsula who in turn brought in numerous slaves from europe, the caucasus and central asia.

    Rupert Murdoch is an idiot if he thinks all egyptians are white today. And so is the American Census Bureau which classifies all MENAs as white caucasians. Clearly showing how race is a social construct. In ancient times egyptians looked like this:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+egypt+people&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=598&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=p416VIKrCYbroAS9-4D4Bw&ved=0CB0QsAQ#tbm=isch&q=ancient+egypt+paintings

    A very dark skinned people who would have been forced to drink from the fountains reserved for blacks in Jim Crow America. The ancient greeks saw them as related to ethiopians, not to the persians, arabs, levantines etc of the neighborhood.

    Have a looksee at the 4500 years old face of the Great Sphinx of Giza:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_-_20080716a.jpg/1280px-Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_-_20080716a.jpg

    when I visited the Sphinx, its appearance gave me the key to the riddle. On seeing that head, typically Negro in all its features, I remembered the remarkable passage where Herodotus says: ' As for me, I judge the Colchians to be a colony of the Egyptians because, like them, they are black with woolly hair... (Count Volney)
    , @Anonymous
    The ancient Egyptians were Caucasoid, but I don't know that you or people like you would consider them "white". They depicted themselves as darker than other Mideastern Caucasoids such as Libyans, Phoenicians, Arabs, etc.
    , @Priss Factor
    Saying Egypt is black(pure and simple) is like saying Brazil and Cuba are only black.
    Ridiculous. But the black factor cannot be denied in Egyptian history.
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  21. I am not Jewish, but if I was a Hollywood actor I would look like a very believable Moses in a film since I often get mistaken for being Jewish. I probably have MENA ancestors from the Moor invasion of Italy.

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  22. @Ed
    Anwat Sadat's mother is of Sudanese extraction. Murdoch is more or less right though. A good approximation of what ancient Egyptians looked like are Egyptian Copts. They intermarry and withstood the Arab invasion which brought to Egypt "black" DNA via the Arabian Peninsula.

    Black DNA in Egypt predates the Arab invasions. The ancient Egyptians trafficked in slaves up the Nile from sub-Saharan Africa.

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  23. @Foseti
    The race of Egyptians is an interesting topic.

    It's been fairly common over the last couple decades for blacks to consider Egyptians black. After all, it's arguably the best claim for an actually black civilization (though it's somewhat inconvenient that it's 6000 years old). As such, you can see quite a few NFL players, for example, with Egyptian tattoos. Could any "fact" possibly be more politically correct the the "fact" that the first civilization was created by blacks?

    On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians are pretty clearly not black. Their actual descendants, the Copts, are still around and are rather distinctive looking. They're also extremely successful. I remember reading a while back that they're the most over-represented group in various high-profile professions in America (specifically surgeons, if I recall correctly). For what it's worth, they're not exactly close with sub-Saharans or Arabs (the latter they really don't like). The teaching company has a good course on the ancient Egyptians and the professor devotes most of a lecture on whether or not they were black. Short answer is "no."

    Fortunately, America is busy bringing democracy to Egypt, so the Copts probably won't be around much longer. A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy.

    Hey, How’ve ya been?

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  24. I always thought Lou Gossett Jr. to be the prototypical Egyptian archetype, angular and dark yes but not so angular as to be confused with Spock’s father Sarek or so dark as to be mistaken for Montel Williams. Perhaps Mohamed Atta should be the reference, straight out of central (intelligence agency) casting. One could even nominate Michael Brown as the epitome of the pharaoh. Because shutup.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Gossett played Anwar Sadat in the TV movie. The actor is blacker and less Arab looking, but not unreasonable casting: there just aren't that many people in the U.S. with the black and Arab background of a Sadat or a Prince Bandar or a Haile Selassie for that matter.
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  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rudolphus James
    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I've known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there's plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler than the current day models- there's even evidence of red-headed pharoahs. So somewhere along the way, they started mating with darker folk, including sub-saharan Africans. Are they white? Visibly you wouldn't think today's batch are, but likely you'd have thought of their ancient ancestors as white. Seems to match with what we know about other demographic facts. They were highly competent as a white country, but have devolved into incompetence as they've gotten more black.

    Of course, blacks are desperate for black achievement, so tend to gloss over this fact, and just pretend that, hey, they're African, so that means they must be black, and must have been black all along and so 'our' ancestors built the pyramids.

    I guess its too much to hope for blacks to ever come to terms with that little inconvenient truth, but white liberals and libertarians should be intelligent enough to come to terms with the fact (if they can think beyond their multiculturalism religion) that it might not be so wise to flood our country with third worlders when we look at historically what has happened to once-great countries that did similar things.

    Are they white? Visibly you wouldn’t think today’s batch are, but likely you’d have thought of their ancient ancestors as white.

    The ancient Egyptians didn’t look like northern Europeans, which is what you’re implying here by “white”. They looked like Middle Eastern Caucasians, like many of them still do today. Because that’s what they were. Hosni Mubarak would be an example of what they looked like. Hosni Mubarak is and looks like a Middle Eastern Caucasian. Is Mubarak thought of as white? That depends if northern European is implied by “white”, which is what some people seem to think.

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    • Replies: @dcite
    no, that's not what is implied by "white." It is recognition of the overall category of "Caucasian" that does apply traditionally to mid-eastern/north african people. The "people of color" applation is of fairly recent vintage, although "Orientals" as they were known in previous centuries, have always been seen as quite distinct from Euros on the whole. Still, some do pass for "European" and not necessarily even of the darkest type of European. I know a lady of entirely Algerian descent who could be French. Not too rare. Not too common either. The ancient Egyptians did call themselves "white" but that was in comparing themselves with the Nubians further south. There are plenty of artistic representations of Egyptians (I recall one that looked a lot like Cat Stevens) that we sort of know what they looked like, and by and large, it was not sub-Saharan Africa (or Swedish.)
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  26. “Presumably, blacks aren’t up in arms about black actors not being cast as Hebrews”

    The Bible miniseries on the History Channel cast a black actor for Samson, and there were quite a few other blacks cast as Hebrew. Of course, whatever points they hoped to score with Blacks were lost when they cast a Satan that bore more than a passing resemblance to Obama.

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  27. @Tutankhamun
    I always thought Lou Gossett Jr. to be the prototypical Egyptian archetype, angular and dark yes but not so angular as to be confused with Spock's father Sarek or so dark as to be mistaken for Montel Williams. Perhaps Mohamed Atta should be the reference, straight out of central (intelligence agency) casting. One could even nominate Michael Brown as the epitome of the pharaoh. Because shutup.

    Gossett played Anwar Sadat in the TV movie. The actor is blacker and less Arab looking, but not unreasonable casting: there just aren’t that many people in the U.S. with the black and Arab background of a Sadat or a Prince Bandar or a Haile Selassie for that matter.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Gossett played Anwar Sadat in the TV movie. The actor is blacker and less Arab looking, but not unreasonable casting:
     
    The Egyptians seem to have been less than pleased at the casting of a Black actor:

    The film was negatively received in Egypt and was accused there of distorting history and slandering the Egyptian people, and was also criticized for the casting of a black actor, Lou Gossett, Jr., as Sadat.
     
    (WIKIPEDIA)

    Egyptian attitudes towards Blacks are not very friendly:

    Over the years, Egypt has had a particularly difficult time coming to grips with its African identity. Many Egyptians do not consider themselves Africans. Some take offense even to being identified with Africa at all. When speaking to Egyptians who have traveled to countries below the Sahara, nearly all of them speak of going to Africa, or going down to Africa, as if Egypt were separate from the rest of the continent.

    More than a few Egyptian women, for example, told me that they disliked the dark-skinned former President Anwar Sadat, ridiculed for years as "Nasser's black poodle." Sadat, whose mother was Sudanese, they insisted, "did not look Egyptian enough."

    For too many Egyptians, sub-Saharan Africa is a stereotypical exotic land of thick jungles and masses of poor, starving and black-skinned savages. Ironically, a little more than a generation ago, Cairo was the nerve center for the continent's liberation movement. Today the state-controlled media devote scant attention to the affairs of the continent below the Sahara. Even the occasional visit by a head of state from sub-Saharan Africa is greeted with smiles by snickering Egyptian government officials, especially when African visitors choose to wear their national dress.
     
    http://www.theroot.com/articles/world/2011/02/egypt_does_it_have_a_race_problem.3.html
    , @Dave Pinsen
    De Niro could play Sadat's successor, Mubarak.
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  28. glancing over the cast for Exodus: Gods and Kings:

    John Turturro as Pharaoh Seti: Visually, good casting (Turturro is, after all, a Mediterranean Caucasoid). Might be a stretch to cast him as someone from the Ancient World. Some actors (cf Charleton Heston) have a timeless quality to them and can be effective in any era. Turterro, though, …..I find it difficult to imagine him existing much prior to 1920.

    Sigourney Weaver as QueenTuya: Sounds good.Weaver can do regal.

    Indira Varma as Miriam: The prejudices of our age revealed. The first thing that pops into my mind is why a half-South Asian actress is playing a Hebrew woman in Ancient Egypt.But the PC police are only concerned about Caucasoids from Europe playing Caucasoids from the Middle East.Who-whom in action.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    Neither blacks nor whites should complain.
    Egyptians should complain. They are the ones who were left out.

    Hollywood ethno-casting is mostly stupid.

    Take Memoirs of a Geisha where THREE Chinese women were given the leading roles. No, Japanese and Chinese don't all look alike. Chinese lookey likey this, Japanese rook rike that.

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  29. “Fully Jewish leading men include Paul Rudd and Joseph Gordon-Levitt”

    Gordon-Levitt can’t act. He just sits there and looks…serious. He’s been crapping all over otherwise good movies since at least “A River Runs Through It.”

    Seth Rogen might’ve been an interesting choice to play Noah. He’s woolly and rough-hewn. Can he do serious? Probably not.

    Logan Lerman, who is Jewish, was great in “Noah,” but he’s certainly too young.

    And since when have we been caring whether Jewish actors were playing Christian characters or vice versa? Hell, the religiously Hindu, Indian dad on Big Bang Theory is played by a Jewish guy. Meanwhile, Howard Wolowitz’s stereotypical Jewish mother, who we never see? She was voiced by the recently deceased Carol Ann Susi, who was…Italian.

    What did Laurence Olivier say? “Try acting, dear boy.”

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  30. “There was a Copt in my karate school when I was younger. His mother was a physician working for the VA or something, and he was pursuing a PhD in math. He had Caucasian features and hair but a dark complection – if you didn’t know he was a Copt, you’d probably guess he was Indian.”

    I have also seen some Iranians that are so dark that you would mistake them for Pakistani or Indian.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    I have also seen some Iranians that are so dark that you would mistake them for Pakistani or Indian.
     
    There is a part of Iran called Balochistan which is populated by these 'Pakistani' types. While I don't know for certain, I'd have to believe they are not regarded by Iranians as belonging to the Persian ethnicity.
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  31. I would guess that Egyptians were much lighter skinned back before the Arab Muslims took over. Maybe not European white, but certainly white-ish. Besides, it’s our movie. And if blacks can show up in movies and shows about ancient Europe – they even managed to stick a few into the second “Hobbit” movie – why can’t whites play Egyptians?

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    • Replies: @Oswald Spengler
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCi-0zdvI4M

    The story of Bilbo and Frodo's distant cousin Willie Baggins.
    , @Anonymous
    Genetic studies of African admixture in the Middle East place the admixture before the Arab invasions, primarily in Roman times.

    If anything, the opposite is probably true, with trade and commerce being disrupted and more socially conservative mores being introduced.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    The Muslim practice of manumission would have facilitated some blending of races.
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  32. If whites must endure blacks being placed incongruously in WW2 epics, Shakespeare plays, Downton Abbey and Barack Hussein Obama as the President, I think Chuck Norris could play Moses and kung fu the Pharoahs army into the Red Sea and be credible.

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  33. @Steve Sailer
    Gossett played Anwar Sadat in the TV movie. The actor is blacker and less Arab looking, but not unreasonable casting: there just aren't that many people in the U.S. with the black and Arab background of a Sadat or a Prince Bandar or a Haile Selassie for that matter.

    Gossett played Anwar Sadat in the TV movie. The actor is blacker and less Arab looking, but not unreasonable casting:

    The Egyptians seem to have been less than pleased at the casting of a Black actor:

    The film was negatively received in Egypt and was accused there of distorting history and slandering the Egyptian people, and was also criticized for the casting of a black actor, Lou Gossett, Jr., as Sadat.

    (WIKIPEDIA)

    Egyptian attitudes towards Blacks are not very friendly:

    Over the years, Egypt has had a particularly difficult time coming to grips with its African identity. Many Egyptians do not consider themselves Africans. Some take offense even to being identified with Africa at all. When speaking to Egyptians who have traveled to countries below the Sahara, nearly all of them speak of going to Africa, or going down to Africa, as if Egypt were separate from the rest of the continent.

    More than a few Egyptian women, for example, told me that they disliked the dark-skinned former President Anwar Sadat, ridiculed for years as “Nasser’s black poodle.” Sadat, whose mother was Sudanese, they insisted, “did not look Egyptian enough.”

    For too many Egyptians, sub-Saharan Africa is a stereotypical exotic land of thick jungles and masses of poor, starving and black-skinned savages. Ironically, a little more than a generation ago, Cairo was the nerve center for the continent’s liberation movement. Today the state-controlled media devote scant attention to the affairs of the continent below the Sahara. Even the occasional visit by a head of state from sub-Saharan Africa is greeted with smiles by snickering Egyptian government officials, especially when African visitors choose to wear their national dress.

    http://www.theroot.com/articles/world/2011/02/egypt_does_it_have_a_race_problem.3.html

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  34. I did see some Black faces in the trailer for “Exodus Gods And Kings”, but they were background characters rather than important characters that are vital to the film’s storyline.

    The PC police won’t be happy until a Hollywood biblical film about Moses, Jesus Christ, or Noah resembles the cast of “The Wire”.

    They want Moses to look like Omar Little from “The Wire”.

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    • Replies: @Whitney
    The whole black Jesus movement seems implausible to me. It seems like people think white people sprang into to being a couple hundred years ago and that blonde blue eyed people couldn't have existed in the Mediterranean. Let's just ignore the Greeks and the Spartans. Anyway, I think Jesus was white based on the fact that white people followed him. The progressive view is that racism is a new thing. That also seems implausible to me. I imagine it is a very old thing.
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  35. @Rudolphus James
    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I've known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there's plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler than the current day models- there's even evidence of red-headed pharoahs. So somewhere along the way, they started mating with darker folk, including sub-saharan Africans. Are they white? Visibly you wouldn't think today's batch are, but likely you'd have thought of their ancient ancestors as white. Seems to match with what we know about other demographic facts. They were highly competent as a white country, but have devolved into incompetence as they've gotten more black.

    Of course, blacks are desperate for black achievement, so tend to gloss over this fact, and just pretend that, hey, they're African, so that means they must be black, and must have been black all along and so 'our' ancestors built the pyramids.

    I guess its too much to hope for blacks to ever come to terms with that little inconvenient truth, but white liberals and libertarians should be intelligent enough to come to terms with the fact (if they can think beyond their multiculturalism religion) that it might not be so wise to flood our country with third worlders when we look at historically what has happened to once-great countries that did similar things.

    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I’ve known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there’s plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler

    The above is a combination of the ignorance, denial and irrationalism that is always found among white racists. Egyptians in general are actually far lighter today than they ever were in ancient times. They mixed with greek and roman settlers for many centuries before being conquered by arabs from the peninsula who in turn brought in numerous slaves from europe, the caucasus and central asia.

    Rupert Murdoch is an idiot if he thinks all egyptians are white today. And so is the American Census Bureau which classifies all MENAs as white caucasians. Clearly showing how race is a social construct. In ancient times egyptians looked like this:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+egypt+people&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=598&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=p416VIKrCYbroAS9-4D4Bw&ved=0CB0QsAQ#tbm=isch&q=ancient+egypt+paintings

    A very dark skinned people who would have been forced to drink from the fountains reserved for blacks in Jim Crow America. The ancient greeks saw them as related to ethiopians, not to the persians, arabs, levantines etc of the neighborhood.

    Have a looksee at the 4500 years old face of the Great Sphinx of Giza:

    when I visited the Sphinx, its appearance gave me the key to the riddle. On seeing that head, typically Negro in all its features, I remembered the remarkable passage where Herodotus says: ‘ As for me, I judge the Colchians to be a colony of the Egyptians because, like them, they are black with woolly hair… (Count Volney)

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    That the ancient Egyptians were obviously not black can be established very easily by looking at how they depicted Nubians (i.e. Sudanese, themselves not fully black).

    http://wysinger.homestead.com/tributee3.jpg
    http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140204194733/egyptology/images/d/de/1356795020_nubians-offering.jpg
    http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/2-nubians.jpg

    The Copts, the group least intermarried with foreign invaders, are the most obviously Caucasian-featured of all the Egyptians.

    Of course, you were the one who was claiming in another thread that pre-Columbian Mexicans were blacks, so I guess there's no reaching cuckooland.
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  36. @Wilkey
    I would guess that Egyptians were much lighter skinned back before the Arab Muslims took over. Maybe not European white, but certainly white-ish. Besides, it's our movie. And if blacks can show up in movies and shows about ancient Europe - they even managed to stick a few into the second "Hobbit" movie - why can't whites play Egyptians?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCi-0zdvI4M

    The story of Bilbo and Frodo’s distant cousin Willie Baggins.

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  37. anon • Disclaimer says:

    He had Caucasian features and hair but a dark complection – if you didn’t know he was a Copt, you’d probably guess he was Indian.”

    There are about two dozen Copts working on my floor. Why? We had a Coptic boss once. They’re a clannish Middle Eastern people, so they tend to hire their own. I noticed the same thing you did: their facial features tend to be more European than Middle Eastern. The noses for example aren’t as large or convex as in the Levant. But their skin tends to be darker than what you’d see among unmixed Arabs. This combination of Europoid features and brownish skin reminds me of certain types of East Indians. And I remember a quote from an ancient Greek author to the effect that Indians looked like Egyptians to him.

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  38. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I have also seen some Iranians that are so dark that you would mistake them for Pakistani or Indian.

    Like Egypt, Iran is a huge country with a long history of successive dynasties of varying ethnicities. I’ve seen Iranians look all over the map, from redheaded, freckly chicks who looked like they were from Ireland to pretty swarthy folk.

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  39. Re: Indira Varma
    I think of myself as having a pretty good Jew-dar (and am halfsies myself) but the one ethnic group that ALWAYS throws me off is half-Northern Indian, half-White. I always think they are Jewish (prominent nose, dark curly hair) but then they turn out to be half-Indian. It’s generally the only time I misidentify, so this casting doesn’t bother me as much.

    I first saw this article:

    https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/you-probably-shouldnt-go-see-ridley-scotts-pretty-racist-exodus-movie-37471c4d7628

    and then this one:

    https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/ridley-scotts-explanation-for-whitewashing-his-exodus-movie-is-infuriating-8d36bd555ada

    Both of which complain that Africans don’t get to play African Kings and African Queens, but are instead cast as slaves, thieves etc. And then I thought like you did, why no Jews cast as Jews? Don’t Jews control hollywood?! In the words of Sarah Silverman:

    ” [Silverman] has also been condemned by Guy Aoki, the head of an Asian watchdog group, for telling a gag that culminated in the word “chink” on Late Night with Conan O’Brien. Silverman’s response was to incorporate the episode into her stand-up. “[Aoki] put my name in all the papers calling me a racist and it hurt,” she confessed. “As a member of the Jewish community, I was really concerned we were losing control of the media. What kind of a world do we live in where a totally cute white girl can’t say ‘chink’ on network television?” ”

    Scott’s own explanation for why he can’t cast realistic people as Moses in his huge budget flick was:

    “I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such,” Scott says. “I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up.”

    And the author of the article I cited is absolutely incensed (he is “officially angry now”)
    The Scott-directed American Gangster starred Denzel Washington, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Cuba Gooding Jr. and Idris Elba. Gladiator featured Djimon Hounsou. Each of those actors has had box office success. In fact, American Gangster itself grossed more than $250 million with a nearly all-Black cast and Russell Crowe. So even if he didn’t cast “Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such” (which…seriously?), it’s not impossible to find actors of color who have track records of successful movies. And hey, if he’s concerned that a project won’t work without an all-White cast then maybe — and I’m just spitballing here — a movie set in Africa isn’t for him.

    I think… our liberal media doesn’t understand the Saharan divide in Africa. It’s all Africa guys! It’s all AFRICA.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Re: Indira Varma
    I think of myself as having a pretty good Jew-dar (and am halfsies myself) but the one ethnic group that ALWAYS throws me off is half-Northern Indian, half-White. I always think they are Jewish (prominent nose, dark curly hair) but then they turn out to be half-Indian. It’s generally the only time I misidentify,
     
    Odd, growing up I knew a fair number of half-South Asian, half European kids. Indeed, my first serious girlfriend was half-Czech, half South Asian. None of them looked terribly Jewish to me.And none of them had curly hair, either.
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  40. @Wilkey
    I would guess that Egyptians were much lighter skinned back before the Arab Muslims took over. Maybe not European white, but certainly white-ish. Besides, it's our movie. And if blacks can show up in movies and shows about ancient Europe - they even managed to stick a few into the second "Hobbit" movie - why can't whites play Egyptians?

    Genetic studies of African admixture in the Middle East place the admixture before the Arab invasions, primarily in Roman times.

    If anything, the opposite is probably true, with trade and commerce being disrupted and more socially conservative mores being introduced.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No, some of the admixture dates to Roman times. There is also evidence of more recent, predominantly female-mediated sub-Saharan admixture in Muslim Middle Eastern populations via the medieval Arab slave trade.
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  41. 5000 years from now what will people say ‘Americans’ looked like?

    George Washington?
    Denzel Washington?

    Who would be right?

    There were various Ancient Egyptian kingsoms and dynasties. Those based farther south were probably blacker, those farther north, whiter.

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  42. @Rudolphus James
    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I've known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there's plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler than the current day models- there's even evidence of red-headed pharoahs. So somewhere along the way, they started mating with darker folk, including sub-saharan Africans. Are they white? Visibly you wouldn't think today's batch are, but likely you'd have thought of their ancient ancestors as white. Seems to match with what we know about other demographic facts. They were highly competent as a white country, but have devolved into incompetence as they've gotten more black.

    Of course, blacks are desperate for black achievement, so tend to gloss over this fact, and just pretend that, hey, they're African, so that means they must be black, and must have been black all along and so 'our' ancestors built the pyramids.

    I guess its too much to hope for blacks to ever come to terms with that little inconvenient truth, but white liberals and libertarians should be intelligent enough to come to terms with the fact (if they can think beyond their multiculturalism religion) that it might not be so wise to flood our country with third worlders when we look at historically what has happened to once-great countries that did similar things.

    The ancient Egyptians were Caucasoid, but I don’t know that you or people like you would consider them “white”. They depicted themselves as darker than other Mideastern Caucasoids such as Libyans, Phoenicians, Arabs, etc.

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  43. “Rupert Murdoch is an idiot if he thinks all egyptians are white today.”

    Indeed. Look at the Egyptian Hoda Kotb for example from NBC’s “The Today Show”, nobody in the U.S would mistake her for being a Stale Pale Female (White woman) . She clearly looks like a Mulata. She looks closer to a Dominican person in phenotype than she does to a Danish person.

    There has been too much racial miscegenation going on in Egypt so that disqualifies it from being considered a White country today. Saying all Egyptians are White is like saying all Latin Americans are White.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    The Egyptians and Latin Americans Rupert has met are probably all white.
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  44. “The ancient Egyptians were Caucasoid, but I don’t know that you or people like you would consider them “white”. They depicted themselves as darker than other Mideastern Caucasoids such as Libyans, Phoenicians, Arabs, etc.”

    There are some people on The Unz who contradict themselves, meaning they are the first ones to classify Egyptians as a White ethnic group, but do not consider Israeli Jews to be a White ethnic group. Even though the average Egyptian is darker than the average Israeli Jew. Talk about irony.

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  45. @Bliss

    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I’ve known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there’s plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler
     
    The above is a combination of the ignorance, denial and irrationalism that is always found among white racists. Egyptians in general are actually far lighter today than they ever were in ancient times. They mixed with greek and roman settlers for many centuries before being conquered by arabs from the peninsula who in turn brought in numerous slaves from europe, the caucasus and central asia.

    Rupert Murdoch is an idiot if he thinks all egyptians are white today. And so is the American Census Bureau which classifies all MENAs as white caucasians. Clearly showing how race is a social construct. In ancient times egyptians looked like this:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+egypt+people&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=598&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=p416VIKrCYbroAS9-4D4Bw&ved=0CB0QsAQ#tbm=isch&q=ancient+egypt+paintings

    A very dark skinned people who would have been forced to drink from the fountains reserved for blacks in Jim Crow America. The ancient greeks saw them as related to ethiopians, not to the persians, arabs, levantines etc of the neighborhood.

    Have a looksee at the 4500 years old face of the Great Sphinx of Giza:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_-_20080716a.jpg/1280px-Great_Sphinx_of_Giza_-_20080716a.jpg

    when I visited the Sphinx, its appearance gave me the key to the riddle. On seeing that head, typically Negro in all its features, I remembered the remarkable passage where Herodotus says: ' As for me, I judge the Colchians to be a colony of the Egyptians because, like them, they are black with woolly hair... (Count Volney)

    That the ancient Egyptians were obviously not black can be established very easily by looking at how they depicted Nubians (i.e. Sudanese, themselves not fully black).

    The Copts, the group least intermarried with foreign invaders, are the most obviously Caucasian-featured of all the Egyptians.

    Of course, you were the one who was claiming in another thread that pre-Columbian Mexicans were blacks, so I guess there’s no reaching cuckooland.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Nubians were very black in skin tone, however. The ancient Egyptians depicted the Nubians as darker than themselves, but they also depicted themselves as darker than Libyans, Arabs, Phenoicians and other Middle Eastern Caucasians.
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  46. @L
    Re: Indira Varma
    I think of myself as having a pretty good Jew-dar (and am halfsies myself) but the one ethnic group that ALWAYS throws me off is half-Northern Indian, half-White. I always think they are Jewish (prominent nose, dark curly hair) but then they turn out to be half-Indian. It's generally the only time I misidentify, so this casting doesn't bother me as much.

    I first saw this article:
    https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/you-probably-shouldnt-go-see-ridley-scotts-pretty-racist-exodus-movie-37471c4d7628

    and then this one:
    https://medium.com/@DavidDWrites/ridley-scotts-explanation-for-whitewashing-his-exodus-movie-is-infuriating-8d36bd555ada

    Both of which complain that Africans don't get to play African Kings and African Queens, but are instead cast as slaves, thieves etc. And then I thought like you did, why no Jews cast as Jews? Don't Jews control hollywood?! In the words of Sarah Silverman:

    " [Silverman] has also been condemned by Guy Aoki, the head of an Asian watchdog group, for telling a gag that culminated in the word "chink" on Late Night with Conan O'Brien. Silverman's response was to incorporate the episode into her stand-up. "[Aoki] put my name in all the papers calling me a racist and it hurt," she confessed. "As a member of the Jewish community, I was really concerned we were losing control of the media. What kind of a world do we live in where a totally cute white girl can't say 'chink' on network television?" "

    Scott's own explanation for why he can't cast realistic people as Moses in his huge budget flick was:

    “I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such,” Scott says. “I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up.”

    And the author of the article I cited is absolutely incensed (he is "officially angry now")
    The Scott-directed American Gangster starred Denzel Washington, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Cuba Gooding Jr. and Idris Elba. Gladiator featured Djimon Hounsou. Each of those actors has had box office success. In fact, American Gangster itself grossed more than $250 million with a nearly all-Black cast and Russell Crowe. So even if he didn’t cast “Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such” (which…seriously?), it’s not impossible to find actors of color who have track records of successful movies. And hey, if he’s concerned that a project won’t work without an all-White cast then maybe — and I’m just spitballing here — a movie set in Africa isn’t for him.

    I think... our liberal media doesn't understand the Saharan divide in Africa. It's all Africa guys! It's all AFRICA.

    Re: Indira Varma
    I think of myself as having a pretty good Jew-dar (and am halfsies myself) but the one ethnic group that ALWAYS throws me off is half-Northern Indian, half-White. I always think they are Jewish (prominent nose, dark curly hair) but then they turn out to be half-Indian. It’s generally the only time I misidentify,

    Odd, growing up I knew a fair number of half-South Asian, half European kids. Indeed, my first serious girlfriend was half-Czech, half South Asian. None of them looked terribly Jewish to me.And none of them had curly hair, either.

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    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    "Odd, growing up I knew a fair number of half-South Asian, half European kids. Indeed, my first serious girlfriend was half-Czech, half South Asian. None of them looked terribly Jewish to me.And none of them had curly hair, either."

    I once dated a half-white, half South Asian girl from Mississippi of all places. The Indian side of her family were Christians from Goa, who normally have very dark skin. Combined with her white Southerner half, it made her look more like someone who could have been from anywhere in the Middle East. Incidentally, I am half-white and half-East Asian, and I used to joke with her that if we ever had kids, they'd come out looking like Mestizo Hispanics - which makes sense if you think about it.
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  47. But he identified with African American culture, listening to rap, etc.

    Typically, these are much less cases of identification with black culture and more cases of anti-white cultural-political attitudes. Blacks are simply seen as allies in the anti-white struggle. The attitude is more common among those with least exposure to black people. Upon exposure, it quickly becomes apparent that blacks are not a people worth emulating.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Maybe that's the case in Australia, but not necessarily in the US. Going through a listening to rap and wearing baggy jeans phase is common at ages where kids don't think about politics.
    , @Truth

    Typically, these are much less cases of identification with black culture and more cases of anti-white cultural-political attitudes. Blacks are simply seen as allies in the anti-white struggle.
     
    I hear you. Or maybe he liked the music.
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  48. Interesting unpacking of the hidden ethnic dimension of the Wolf of Wall Street at the Occidental Observer. More surprises than you would think?

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  49. @Jefferson
    "There was a Copt in my karate school when I was younger. His mother was a physician working for the VA or something, and he was pursuing a PhD in math. He had Caucasian features and hair but a dark complection – if you didn’t know he was a Copt, you’d probably guess he was Indian."

    I have also seen some Iranians that are so dark that you would mistake them for Pakistani or Indian.

    I have also seen some Iranians that are so dark that you would mistake them for Pakistani or Indian.

    There is a part of Iran called Balochistan which is populated by these ‘Pakistani’ types. While I don’t know for certain, I’d have to believe they are not regarded by Iranians as belonging to the Persian ethnicity.

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  50. @silviosilver

    But he identified with African American culture, listening to rap, etc.
     
    Typically, these are much less cases of identification with black culture and more cases of anti-white cultural-political attitudes. Blacks are simply seen as allies in the anti-white struggle. The attitude is more common among those with least exposure to black people. Upon exposure, it quickly becomes apparent that blacks are not a people worth emulating.

    Maybe that’s the case in Australia, but not necessarily in the US. Going through a listening to rap and wearing baggy jeans phase is common at ages where kids don’t think about politics.

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  51. @snorlax
    That the ancient Egyptians were obviously not black can be established very easily by looking at how they depicted Nubians (i.e. Sudanese, themselves not fully black).

    http://wysinger.homestead.com/tributee3.jpg
    http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140204194733/egyptology/images/d/de/1356795020_nubians-offering.jpg
    http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/2-nubians.jpg

    The Copts, the group least intermarried with foreign invaders, are the most obviously Caucasian-featured of all the Egyptians.

    Of course, you were the one who was claiming in another thread that pre-Columbian Mexicans were blacks, so I guess there's no reaching cuckooland.

    The Nubians were very black in skin tone, however. The ancient Egyptians depicted the Nubians as darker than themselves, but they also depicted themselves as darker than Libyans, Arabs, Phenoicians and other Middle Eastern Caucasians.

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  52. RUPERT MARDUK IS INSANE. MOSES NEVER EXISTED; IF HE DID, HE WAS BLACK.

    Egypt is in African. Egyptians were black. Some whites moved in there during the reign of Alexander the Great.

    Here are their painting from their tombs which clearly show negroid features.

    Moses never existed. He is an African myth, copied from the myth of Mises of Sargon.

    See the bestseller:

    http://www.amazon.com/Moses-Exist-Myth-Israelite-Lawgiver/dp/0979963184

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  53. The same left wingers who believe biblical figures like Jesus Christ, Moses, and Noah did not look White enough to have White actors play them in movies, are the same left wingers who insist that George Zimmerman is Whiter than sour cream and that Elizabeth Warren’s picture should in the dictionary under the definition of Amerindian. Talk about the irony.

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  54. In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either.
    , @syonredux

    In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.
     
    Brynner's ancestry is tangled:

    Yul Brynner was born Yuliy Borisovich Briner in 1920.[3][4] He exaggerated his background and early life for the press, claiming that he was born "Taidje Khan" of part-Mongol parentage, on the Russian island of Sakhalin.[5] In reality, he was born at home in a four-story residence at 15 Aleutskaya Street, Vladivostok, in the Far Eastern Republic (present-day Primorsky Krai, Russia).[6] He occasionally referred to himself as Julius Briner,[1] Jules Bryner, or Youl Bryner.[3] The 1989 biography by his son, Rock Brynner, clarified some of these issues.[5]

    His father, Boris Yuliyevich Briner, was a mining engineer whose father, Jules Briner, was a Swiss citizen who moved to Vladivostok in the 1870s and established a successful import/export company.[7] Brynner's paternal grandmother, Natalya Yosifovna Kurkutova, was a native of Irkutsk and a Eurasian of part Buryat ancestry.[citation needed] His mother, Marousia Dimitrievna (née Blagovidova), came from the intelligentsia and studied to be an actress and singer. He felt a strong personal connection to the Romani people; in 1977, Yul Brynner was named Honorary President of the International Romani Union, an office that he kept until his death.[8][9]
     
    , @Anonymous
    Yul Brynner was only about one-quarter Jewish by ancestry.
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  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Hate to break it to blacks but the Ancient Egyptians were NOT black. It is believed that only 1% of Egypt’s population today has the same DNA as the people who designed and built the Pyramids. Egypt has been invaded countless times in the last several thousand years and has a long coastline on the Mediterranean sea as well. Its population has been dramatically diluted, altered and mixed in the last 40-50 centuries. Of course I would not call the Ancient Egyptians ‘white’ either, although there is evidence that some of the pharaohs had reddish hair. Curiously the toy soldier company KING AND COUNTRY probably has models that look the most like the Ancient Egyptians did. They are shown as a light-brown colored people. (Sorry I have no idea how to establish a link). Btw, i once worked with two guys who were from Iran. The one guy looked like an Italian, which was what i though he was when I first met him. The other fellow was much darker-complexioned, almost Pakistani-like.

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  56. The whole “Egyptians are black” thing is misinformation, but it does have a ring of truth in that some (meaning, not all) black females prostituted themselves during the slave trade with foreign Middle Eastern slave traders (whereas black male slaves were typically castrated).

    Sadly, modern Egypt is a bit different from ancient Egypt. Not too different, but their governance and culture is more welcoming to a stricter religion like Islam than in the past. The “hijab” apparel tends to concentrate on female hair in a more patriarchal matter.

    This isn’t the first time black women have tried this “miscegenation spectacle” and is actually a repetition. Indeed, dark brown skinned women have tried to mix with other men (typically slavetraders) throughout history (e.g. prostitution, sexual predation), typically after conquest and there are some countries I can think of which showcase the mixed descendants of these sexual unions:

    India (e.g. other Asian men) – Very ancient (Millenniums ago)
    Ethiopia (e.g. Arab men) – Somewhat ancient (Millenniums ago)
    Brazil (e.g. Portuguese men) – 17th century
    Dominican Republic (e.g. Spanish men) – 18th century
    Puerto Rico (e.g. Spanish men) – 18th century

    While Ethiopians and Dominican Republic are still mulatto, I’d say that Indians have undergone shifts thanks to their excessive mixture and can be categorized as a separate ethnicity. Hopefully, Brazilians will have their own ethnicity in the future as well. It would be lovely for Brazilians to learn a thing or two from Indians (North/South Asia).

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  57. Cleopatra was in fact, Greek. Being part of the Ptolemiac Dynasty where sister and brother married each other. She spoke only Greek, and a bit of Latin. Not a bit of Egyptian, either. The Egyptians had not had native Pharoahs since the Persians defeated them and placed puppets on the thrones in the 600′s BC or so, to be replaced 300 years later by the Alexandrine Ptolemy Dynasty (one of Alexander’s Generals).

    As for the Ancient Egyptians themselves, well they left lots and lots of mummies and pictures of themselves. Egyptians being the favorite subject of Egyptians. Brown skinned, not Black, and looking different than the more White skinned Hittites depicted and the Nubians who ruled them briefly. DNA analysis seems to confirm this — Egyptians were a brown skinned North African people. Who seemed to have moved from North Africa as it dried up into the Nile Valley, as less rainfall made what had been a malarial death-swamp into the only fertile place. The riches of the Nile were so powerful that Greeks familiar with the glories of the newly built Parthenon and the Colossus of Rhodes were simply awestruck by visiting places like Karnak and Memphis where gigantic temple after temple had been built continuously from around 4,000 BC to about 1,200 BC. Those places are still somewhat intact today and still inspire awe. Let alone the Pyramids.

    As for Jewish actors, there are plenty of talented part or wholly Jewish actresses, including Scarlett Johanssen, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Jennifer Connolly (yeah name threw me too), probably NOT including Natalie Portman past age 13 or so. [Portman has been a dead, wooden presence in most of the movies I saw. Kat Dennings was more entertaining in the Thor movies.] Johanssen in the Captain America and Iron Man movies and the Avengers was quite good, able to give a charismatic performance against scene stealers like Downey.

    But Joseph Gordon Levitt? Maybe he’s a nice guy, or professional, but he just can’t give much of a performance any more. He had more charisma and presence as straight man to looney John Lithgow chewing the scenery, spitting it out, and then chewing it some more, than he does now. I have no idea why he’s cast so much, he lacks the masculine presence of a guy like Bruce Willis and thus was a total dud in Looper. In the last Batman movie, he had all the masculine heft of a Starbucks barista.

    The theory of the dearth of masculine actors in Hollywood and the need for UK/Aussie/Kiwi imports by my readers on my blog is, casting directors in Hollywood are mostly gay men with a few women thrown in, and they dislike straight masculine leading guys. Thus Damien Lewis playing Americans, because few actors with his type of presence get jobs in the US. Look at Karl Urban, the guy is a fabulous actor, very funny in R.E.D. as well as a great Judge Dredd, but there have to be American guys like him who just don’t get a chance. Instead, the slight pretty boys without any threatening masculine characteristics like Mitchum, Garner, Wayne, etc. This is probably made worse by a general lack of emphasis on male toughness which is hard to fake in modern society, Jews being like Upper Class New Englander Puritan types fleeing “tough” stuff like pro athletics, the military, etc.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    By Brazilian standards, most ancient Egyptians were not black.
    But by the American one-drop rule, many were.
    , @Priss Factor
    "But Joseph Gordon Levitt? Maybe he’s a nice guy, or professional, but he just can’t give much of a performance any more... I have no idea why he’s cast so much, he lacks the masculine presence of a guy like Bruce Willis and thus was a total dud in Looper."

    Levitt doesn't look manly but can act it, esp with his command of voice.

    And keep in mind that Willis gained fame as a clown and raised eyebrows when he was cast as an action actor for Die Hard. He proved himself but he was initially cast against type.

    But Keaton as Batman? That wasn't convincing in the least.
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  58. @syonredux

    Re: Indira Varma
    I think of myself as having a pretty good Jew-dar (and am halfsies myself) but the one ethnic group that ALWAYS throws me off is half-Northern Indian, half-White. I always think they are Jewish (prominent nose, dark curly hair) but then they turn out to be half-Indian. It’s generally the only time I misidentify,
     
    Odd, growing up I knew a fair number of half-South Asian, half European kids. Indeed, my first serious girlfriend was half-Czech, half South Asian. None of them looked terribly Jewish to me.And none of them had curly hair, either.

    “Odd, growing up I knew a fair number of half-South Asian, half European kids. Indeed, my first serious girlfriend was half-Czech, half South Asian. None of them looked terribly Jewish to me.And none of them had curly hair, either.”

    I once dated a half-white, half South Asian girl from Mississippi of all places. The Indian side of her family were Christians from Goa, who normally have very dark skin. Combined with her white Southerner half, it made her look more like someone who could have been from anywhere in the Middle East. Incidentally, I am half-white and half-East Asian, and I used to joke with her that if we ever had kids, they’d come out looking like Mestizo Hispanics – which makes sense if you think about it.

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  59. @syonredux

    Perhaps having a guy named Christian play Moses is the real problem here.
     
    I don't think so. Scanning the "lumpengentsia" (great phrase, Steve) sites, the only uproar that I can detect centers around Ridley Scott hiring actors of European descent*.For example, here's a recent piece from the MARY SUE:

    http://www.themarysue.com/christian-bale-exodus-whitewashing/



    *One of the really fascinating developments of recent years is how the "race-does-not-exist" crowd has come to embrace the most extreme versions of late 19th-early 20th century racial attitudes. For example, they seem to think that European and Middle Eastern populations are completely dichotomous.

    But a lot of the motivations for attitudes aren’t fully spelled out in public.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    But a lot of the motivations for attitudes aren’t fully spelled out in public.
     
    Sure, but one can usually detect a trace of the underlying motive. In this case, I simply have not been able to detect anything resembling Jewish animus over a Gentile actor playing Moses.If that motive is in play, it must be very well hidden indeed.

    For my part, I think that the ostensible motive is the real one: Identitarian politics, The POC agenda, etc.
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  60. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Drudge’s headline links to a hollywoodreporter.com article about the movie.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movie/exodus-gods-kings/review/752338

    Even on a presumably liberal PC site about hollywood, the comments are entirely hostile to the “get whitey” narrative. The rabble are rebelling.

    Look at this comment, with an astounding 370 ups and counting:

    Why is “diversity” and “multiculturalism” demanded in All white populations and Only white populations?

    Diversity means Chasing Down the Last White Person

    Why do supposedly World Problems like “racism”, “privilege”, etc. target Only white people and Only white populations?

    Anti racist is a codeword for anti white

    # anti white
    # white genocide

    Mind you, this is an off-topic post on a ‘liberal’ site. Imagine what ‘conservatives’ are saying.

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  61. There are some people on The Unz who contradict themselves, meaning they are the first ones to classify Egyptians as a White ethnic group, but do not consider Israeli Jews to be a White ethnic group. Even though the average Egyptian is darker than the average Israeli Jew. Talk about irony.

    Really? Well, I guess I’m a bit different since I classify Egyptians as a separate yellowish North African group, whereas Israelis tend to strike me as more “preserved” and less brownish.

    Israeli Jews tend to have more overbearing mothers and tend to be quite inbred from what I’ve heard. Their traditional ways for centuries has been to marry/procreate within their social/ethnic group. Middle Easterners are also the same nowadays frankly…

    Is inbreeding (e.g. marriage/children) an Israeli Jewish thing? Possibly…

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Israeli Jew" is a poor descriptor of ethnicity. The Israeli Jewish population includes pure Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim, mixes of these groups, and smaller numbers of Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews (Bnei Menashe). Pure Ashkenazim account for less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.
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  62. Muslims from above the Sahara do not treat blacks well, as in all developing or poor nations the populace doesn’t have time to give lip service to the PC platitudes that you hear in wealthy white countries:

    http://www.irinnews.org/report/93763/libya-sub-saharan-migrants-keep-their-heads-down

    And did everyone know that Iraq is more than 10% sub-saharan black? They are known as the Zanj and live in the marshy South of Iraq around Basra, where the ancestors were imported as agricultural laborers:

    http://www.alternet.org/story/17339/the_hidden_black_iraq

    They get no affirmative action and no access to public life. However, if those had been Chinese laborers imported into Iraq centuries ago we all know that they would have progressed through the ranks of Iraq’s economic and educational ladder.

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  63. ” Incidentally, I am half-white and half-East Asian, and I used to joke with her that if we ever had kids, they’d come out looking like Mestizo Hispanics – which makes sense if you think about it.”

    Mestizos/Amerindians on average have smaller eyes than Caucasians but bigger eyes than East Asians/Southeast Asians. That is why there is a lot of phenotype overlap between them and Eurasians.

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  64. @Auntie Analogue
    In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.

    No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    They do now object.
    , @Priss Factor
    Some white actors looked exotic/mixed and could take on all sorts of ethnic/racial roles.

    Anthony Quinn could play Greek, Mexican, Eskimo, French, etc.

    But my favorite white-as-non-white role of all time. It also has the greatest line in movie history.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abI8cdLvJp8

    "Because I am a river to my people."

    , @Priss Factor
    "No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either."

    Most people don't remember that one. Most people have forgotten Brando in Teahouse of August Moon.
    But they remember Rooney's role in Breakfast at Tiffany's because that is a classic movie.

    When I was young, TV used to show an Omar-Sharif-Genghis-Khan movie pretty regularly.
    The casting was totally bonkers, but I remember loving it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Tmg9ydb_U
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  65. @Auntie Analogue
    In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.

    In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.

    Brynner’s ancestry is tangled:

    Yul Brynner was born Yuliy Borisovich Briner in 1920.[3][4] He exaggerated his background and early life for the press, claiming that he was born “Taidje Khan” of part-Mongol parentage, on the Russian island of Sakhalin.[5] In reality, he was born at home in a four-story residence at 15 Aleutskaya Street, Vladivostok, in the Far Eastern Republic (present-day Primorsky Krai, Russia).[6] He occasionally referred to himself as Julius Briner,[1] Jules Bryner, or Youl Bryner.[3] The 1989 biography by his son, Rock Brynner, clarified some of these issues.[5]

    His father, Boris Yuliyevich Briner, was a mining engineer whose father, Jules Briner, was a Swiss citizen who moved to Vladivostok in the 1870s and established a successful import/export company.[7] Brynner’s paternal grandmother, Natalya Yosifovna Kurkutova, was a native of Irkutsk and a Eurasian of part Buryat ancestry.[citation needed] His mother, Marousia Dimitrievna (née Blagovidova), came from the intelligentsia and studied to be an actress and singer. He felt a strong personal connection to the Romani people; in 1977, Yul Brynner was named Honorary President of the International Romani Union, an office that he kept until his death.[8][9]

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  66. @Anonymous
    No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either.

    They do now object.

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  67. Brynner was fantastic as the imperious Egyptian ruler. And his exotic appearance went well with the exoticness of Egypt.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.
    , @syonredux

    Brynner was fantastic as the imperious Egyptian ruler. And his exotic appearance went well with the exoticness of Egypt.
     
    To my way of thinking, Brynner's two top performances were Rameses in The Ten Commandments and the sinister android gunfighter (dressed just like his character from The Magnificent Seven) in WESTWORLD
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  68. @Anonymous
    Brynner was fantastic as the imperious Egyptian ruler. And his exotic appearance went well with the exoticness of Egypt.

    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.
     
    In Sexual Personae, Paglia notes that we remember Rameses II "though Abu Simbel, The Book of Exodus, and The Ten Commandments, where he is brilliantly played by Yul Brynner."
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Right. So was John Derek as Joshua. The only other actor at the time who could've played Ramses with the same pinnache was Toshiro Mifune, dubbed of course. Yul's whole swaggering kick butt attitude really helped make the role seem larger than life itself, which in turn served him well when he starred in Magnificent Seven.

    So now they're claiming the Egyptians? Guess Spike Lee will have to weigh in on it.

    And of course, this controversy ("were they or weren't they black") dates back to Archie Bunker vs. George Jefferson.

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  69. @Steve Sailer
    But a lot of the motivations for attitudes aren't fully spelled out in public.

    But a lot of the motivations for attitudes aren’t fully spelled out in public.

    Sure, but one can usually detect a trace of the underlying motive. In this case, I simply have not been able to detect anything resembling Jewish animus over a Gentile actor playing Moses.If that motive is in play, it must be very well hidden indeed.

    For my part, I think that the ostensible motive is the real one: Identitarian politics, The POC agenda, etc.

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  70. @Steve Sailer
    Gossett played Anwar Sadat in the TV movie. The actor is blacker and less Arab looking, but not unreasonable casting: there just aren't that many people in the U.S. with the black and Arab background of a Sadat or a Prince Bandar or a Haile Selassie for that matter.

    De Niro could play Sadat’s successor, Mubarak.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The young Qadafi looked like a North African Travis Bickle.
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  71. @Steve Sailer
    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.

    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.

    In Sexual Personae, Paglia notes that we remember Rameses II “though Abu Simbel, The Book of Exodus, and The Ten Commandments, where he is brilliantly played by Yul Brynner.”

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  72. @Wilkey
    I would guess that Egyptians were much lighter skinned back before the Arab Muslims took over. Maybe not European white, but certainly white-ish. Besides, it's our movie. And if blacks can show up in movies and shows about ancient Europe - they even managed to stick a few into the second "Hobbit" movie - why can't whites play Egyptians?

    The Muslim practice of manumission would have facilitated some blending of races.

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    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    The Muslim practice of manumission would have facilitated some blending of races.
     
    Hell yes!!!

    Especially after the Muslims castrated their African slaves.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/saudi-offers-castrated-african-slave-for-sale-on-facebook/

    http://www.aina.org/news/2006100394917.htm

    While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.
     
    But everyone knows that by far the very worst slavery practices occurred right here in the good old USA. And totally explains Ferguson.

    What ever you are smoking Dave must be the really good sh*t.
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  73. @Dave Pinsen
    De Niro could play Sadat's successor, Mubarak.

    The young Qadafi looked like a North African Travis Bickle.

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  74. All this talk of Egyptians and actors and no one mentions Omar Sharif?

    I’ve been to Egypt, and met Egyptians that were typically black. I’ve also met some that were Arab, with skin colors from coffee to cream. And I’ve met some that look like their fathers sat for the pharaoh masks. Crazy mix.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    All this talk of Egyptians and actors and no one mentions Omar Sharif?
     
    For some reason, no one seemed to mind when Omar Sharif played a Russian in Dr Zhivago and a German in Night of the Generals......
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  75. Ridley Scott comments on his casting choices in VARIETY:

    Like most high-profile religious pictures since Martin Scorsese’s 1988 “The Last Temptation of Christ,” “Exodus” became the subject of intense media scrutiny before Scott had ever exposed a frame of (digital) film on stages at London’s Pinewood Studios and on location in Spain. Much of the outcry online stemmed from his decision to cast white American, European and Australian actors in most of the key roles, no matter that the same could be said of “The Passion of the Christ,” “Noah,” “The Ten Commandments” and virtually any other big-budget Bible movies. “I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such,” Scott says. “I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up.”

    http://variety.com/2014/film/news/ridley-scott-exodus-gods-and-kings-christian-bale-1201363668/

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Ridley Scott cast a Syrian actor as Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven.
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  76. @Education Realist
    All this talk of Egyptians and actors and no one mentions Omar Sharif?

    I've been to Egypt, and met Egyptians that were typically black. I've also met some that were Arab, with skin colors from coffee to cream. And I've met some that look like their fathers sat for the pharaoh masks. Crazy mix.

    All this talk of Egyptians and actors and no one mentions Omar Sharif?

    For some reason, no one seemed to mind when Omar Sharif played a Russian in Dr Zhivago and a German in Night of the Generals……

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    • Replies: @Busby
    Night of The Generals, a guilty pleasure for me. I never miss it when it's on. I was and still am totally blown away be the plot twist when Sharif goes to arrest Peter O'Toole. They don't make them like that any more.
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  77. @Jefferson
    The same Afrocentrics who glee with delight over the Sicilian scene in "True Romance", also glee with excitement over the thought of the Jewish people having Black blood pumping through their hearts.

    Jews also get the Black brush from Afrocentrics, just like the Italians. Afrocentric claim the reason Jews today have White phenotypes is because the original Black Hebrews mixed with Eastern Europeans to the point where the Sub Saharan African phenotype of the Hebrew people was completely race mixed out of existence.

    They say the Black phenotype was race mixed out of the Jews just like the Black phenotype was race mixed out of Argentina.

    … so success is being anything as long as the black has been removed???

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  78. Aaron Paul dyed his hair darker in order to be cast as an Egyptian in Exodus Gods And Kings. His hair in real life is naturally lighter than what is depicted in this film.

    Which makes sense because blondism is not common among Egyptians. Not even the majority of Egyptian children have light brown hair/blond hair, let alone Egyptian adults.

    If you visit an elementary school in Cairo you are not going to see classrooms full of blond haired children like you would in say Berlin and Warsaw.

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  79. Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    'Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.'

    'Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?'

    Bur Kirk doesn't look it.
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  80. @Mr. Anon
    "Likewise, Aaron Paul (Jesse Pinkman on Breaking Bad) plays Moses’ military leader Joshua. Paul is from Boise and his father is a Baptist minister."

    When the Hebrews stand on the east side of the Red Sea, watching Pharoh's army getting swept away by the flood, does Joshua yell out "Yeah!............Yahweh, bitch!"?

    Probably. And, I hear that Pharaoh was heard to shout from the opposite shore, ‘Jesus Holy Christ, would ya fu*kin’ look at that!’

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  81. @Steve Sailer
    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.

    Right. So was John Derek as Joshua. The only other actor at the time who could’ve played Ramses with the same pinnache was Toshiro Mifune, dubbed of course. Yul’s whole swaggering kick butt attitude really helped make the role seem larger than life itself, which in turn served him well when he starred in Magnificent Seven.

    So now they’re claiming the Egyptians? Guess Spike Lee will have to weigh in on it.

    And of course, this controversy (“were they or weren’t they black”) dates back to Archie Bunker vs. George Jefferson.

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  82. @Steve Sailer
    Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    I was going to say Liev Schreiber, but Wikipedia describes his father as a mix of: “German, Swiss-German, Danish, Dutch, English, French, Irish, Norwegian, Belgian (Flemish), Scottish, and Welsh.”

    So that’s 12 ancestries total.

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  83. In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.

    Wikipedia doesn’t list him as Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Auntie Analogue
    I stand corrected: Yul Brynner was not a Jew. I recall having years ago read that he was Jewish, but my recollection may have confused him with readings on another actor.
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  84. […] Source: Steve Sailer […]

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  85. Are Murdoch’s inquisitors trying to say Egypt wasn’t full of whites back then, or that it isn’t now (seems like an easily disproved claim)

    For famous Arabs who resemble black Americans, Prince Bandar comes to mind, probably cuz his mother was an African slave. Sadat seemed to me to have a genteel, professorial mien that his successor never could pull off:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-12301713

    There’s a minor character early in Peter Berg’s “The Kingdom” (if memory serves, in the role of Saudi police chief/torture-assigner) who had a great “tough Arab” look, sort of borderline grizzled-Bedouin/swarthy-Somali but off-puttingly brutish in the Danny Trejo fashion — turns out this was played by veteran Israeli actor Uri Gavriel, he of numerous credits in cheesy 80s Cold War releases

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  86. Someone surely has pointed out that Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobos Ramírez in “Highlander” — that would be the part immortalized by Sir Jahmal al-Connery — is technically Egyptian; while the title character was played by a Frenchman, of course

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  87. If Egypt was a Human Being, it would be George Zimmerman because people are always debating on which racial group it belongs to. Both George Zimmerman and Egypt are racially ambiguous.

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  88. Christian Bale ___
    First time I noticed him was in Shaft remake (2000). I said, “Whoa, this guy has some presence”. He also was very good in Empire of the Sun, as others have noted.
    Jeffrey Wright also did great in Shaft.

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  89. @Jefferson
    "Rupert Murdoch is an idiot if he thinks all egyptians are white today."

    Indeed. Look at the Egyptian Hoda Kotb for example from NBC's "The Today Show", nobody in the U.S would mistake her for being a Stale Pale Female (White woman) . She clearly looks like a Mulata. She looks closer to a Dominican person in phenotype than she does to a Danish person.

    There has been too much racial miscegenation going on in Egypt so that disqualifies it from being considered a White country today. Saying all Egyptians are White is like saying all Latin Americans are White.

    The Egyptians and Latin Americans Rupert has met are probably all white.

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  90. “Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?”

    I hope that were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek. Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel.

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  91. “Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?”

    I hope that there were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek. Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I hope that there were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek.
     
    Since the Greeks are White, I'm guessing that you mean that he was too Northern European in appearance?
    , @Anonymous
    Did anyone complain when the rock played Hercules? Here is a half-black/half-Samoan guy playing a Greek.
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  92. He also was very good in Empire of the Sun, as others have noted.

    His best performance was the rant on the set. This is the best 3 minutes of his career.

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  93. @syonredux
    Ridley Scott comments on his casting choices in VARIETY:

    Like most high-profile religious pictures since Martin Scorsese’s 1988 “The Last Temptation of Christ,” “Exodus” became the subject of intense media scrutiny before Scott had ever exposed a frame of (digital) film on stages at London’s Pinewood Studios and on location in Spain. Much of the outcry online stemmed from his decision to cast white American, European and Australian actors in most of the key roles, no matter that the same could be said of “The Passion of the Christ,” “Noah,” “The Ten Commandments” and virtually any other big-budget Bible movies. “I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such,” Scott says. “I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up.”
     
    http://variety.com/2014/film/news/ridley-scott-exodus-gods-and-kings-christian-bale-1201363668/

    Ridley Scott cast a Syrian actor as Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven.

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  94. Another round of people who look like other people:

    Sean Connery and Ayatollah Khomeini

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  95. I hope that were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek. Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel.

    First, Spartacus wasn’t a Greek. He was a Thracian.

    Second, Steve could do an separate post on the appearance of Ancient Greeks versus modern Greeks along the lines of this Ancient Egyptian versus modern Egyptian post. Ancient Greeks were more than likely different from the modern version.

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  96. @Foseti
    The race of Egyptians is an interesting topic.

    It's been fairly common over the last couple decades for blacks to consider Egyptians black. After all, it's arguably the best claim for an actually black civilization (though it's somewhat inconvenient that it's 6000 years old). As such, you can see quite a few NFL players, for example, with Egyptian tattoos. Could any "fact" possibly be more politically correct the the "fact" that the first civilization was created by blacks?

    On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians are pretty clearly not black. Their actual descendants, the Copts, are still around and are rather distinctive looking. They're also extremely successful. I remember reading a while back that they're the most over-represented group in various high-profile professions in America (specifically surgeons, if I recall correctly). For what it's worth, they're not exactly close with sub-Saharans or Arabs (the latter they really don't like). The teaching company has a good course on the ancient Egyptians and the professor devotes most of a lecture on whether or not they were black. Short answer is "no."

    Fortunately, America is busy bringing democracy to Egypt, so the Copts probably won't be around much longer. A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy.

    It’s been fairly common over the last couple decades for blacks to consider Egyptians black. ..On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians are pretty clearly not black. Their actual descendants, the Copts, are still around and are rather distinctive looking.

    Not too distinctive, if you live in Ethiopia:

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  97. @The Z Blog
    Black mythology says the ancient Egyptians were black and the Greeks then Romans stole their culture. That means western civilization is rooted in Africa.

    And in over 5000 years they haven’t managed to replace it.

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  98. @silviosilver

    But he identified with African American culture, listening to rap, etc.
     
    Typically, these are much less cases of identification with black culture and more cases of anti-white cultural-political attitudes. Blacks are simply seen as allies in the anti-white struggle. The attitude is more common among those with least exposure to black people. Upon exposure, it quickly becomes apparent that blacks are not a people worth emulating.

    Typically, these are much less cases of identification with black culture and more cases of anti-white cultural-political attitudes. Blacks are simply seen as allies in the anti-white struggle.

    I hear you. Or maybe he liked the music.

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    • Replies: @bigboy
    Those are Coptic Orthodox clergy from Ethiopia not ethnic Copts from Egypt. Egyptian Christians don't resemble Ethiopians generally

    The links between Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Copic Orthodox Church go back generations. The head of the Ethiopian church was appointed by head of the Coptic church.
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  99. “Jefferson says:

    I hope that were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek.”

    Douglas’s character in “Spartacus” was not a Greek – he was supposed to be a Thracian. What did Thracians look like? I don’t know. I always imagined them to look like Kirk Douglas.

    “Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel.”

    Ancient greeks proably didn’t – they probably looked more like celts or slavs or southern germans. Modern greeks have a lot of turkish and other eastern genes.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The ancient Greeks did not look like Celts, Slavs, or Germans. They wrote of the "Keltoi" and distinguished themselves from them physically.

    Turks are representative of the Caucasoid Anatolian population that has been in Anatolia for millenia.
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  100. “Chuck says:

    Another round of people who look like other people:

    Sean Connery and Ayatollah Khomeini”

    Wow! That is a strong resemblance. Another person whom Khomeini bore a strong resemblance to was the english actor Torin Thatcher (whom you might have seen in “The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad” or “Star Trek TOS”)

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  101. “Steve Sailer says:

    Right. Brynner was incredibly cool in The Ten Commandments.”

    “So shall it be written! So shall it be done!”

    That’s the way a King talks.

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  102. @iSteveFan

    In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.
     
    Wikipedia doesn't list him as Jewish.

    I stand corrected: Yul Brynner was not a Jew. I recall having years ago read that he was Jewish, but my recollection may have confused him with readings on another actor.

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  103. “Likewise, Aaron Paul (Jesse Pinkman on Breaking Bad) plays Moses’ military leader Joshua.”

    Scott should have cast Bryan Cranston as Moses and Giancarlo Esposito as Pharoh. That would be righteous!

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  104. What most people mean by black today is “west-african / bantu”, with those certain physical features, facial features, skull shape and so on. What they do not mean is dark skinned. And if anything some Egyptians were dark skinned, but there was nobody looking like a nigerian, a bantu-kenian or a non-pygmy congolese

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  105. @Ed
    Anwat Sadat's mother is of Sudanese extraction. Murdoch is more or less right though. A good approximation of what ancient Egyptians looked like are Egyptian Copts. They intermarry and withstood the Arab invasion which brought to Egypt "black" DNA via the Arabian Peninsula.

    The Coptic language lives. There is a small center at the Public Library of the city of Sderot, dedicated to archiving language instructional materials for the renaissance of Gaza as a Coptic-language ruled, non-Arabic-colonized indigenous community.

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  106. @Dave Pinsen
    The Muslim practice of manumission would have facilitated some blending of races.

    The Muslim practice of manumission would have facilitated some blending of races.

    Hell yes!!!

    Especially after the Muslims castrated their African slaves.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/saudi-offers-castrated-african-slave-for-sale-on-facebook/

    http://www.aina.org/news/2006100394917.htm

    While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.

    But everyone knows that by far the very worst slavery practices occurred right here in the good old USA. And totally explains Ferguson.

    What ever you are smoking Dave must be the really good sh*t.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    'Prince' Bandar wasn't killed at birth. And there are other Saudis who are black.
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  107. Douglas’s character in “Spartacus” was not a Greek – he was supposed to be a Thracian. What did Thracians look like? I don’t know. I always imagined them to look like Kirk Douglas.

    “Ethiopians say that their gods are snub–nosed [σιμούς] and black
    Thracians that they are pale and red-haired.” (attributed to Xenophanes)

    The Greeks:

    ““Wherever the Hellenic and Ionic race has been kept pure, we see proper tall men of fairly broad and straight build, neatly made, of fairly light skin and blond; the flesh is rather firm, the limbs straight, the extremities well made. The head is of middling size, and moves very easily; the neck is strong, the hair somewhat fair, and soft, and a little curly; the face is rectangular, the lips narrow, the nose straight, and the eyes bright, piercing, and full of light; for of all nations the Greek has the fairest eyes.” [Günther (1927) ] (attributed to Jewish physician and sophist Adamantios, fourth-century AD)

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  108. While modern Egyptians do not resemble African-Americans, modern Egyptians are often dark complexioned, much darker than eg Syrians or Iraqis – who are lighter than most Italians.
    The ancient pre-Ptolemaic Egyptians don’t much resemble any existing race, and appear to have been of two main types, long-faced (pretty Caucasoid) and short/round faced, the latter most resembling a stouter Khoi-San. Judging by the art they saw themselves as lighter than the Nubians to the south; but often shown with a golden-brown complexion rather than white.
    I guess there would be nothing wrong with African-Americans playing the round-face type, from what we can tell they are physically at least as similar to them as Europeans are.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I was at Spirit of America event ~10 years ago, which featured a couple of Iraqi bloggers who were quasi-famous at the time. Both were pretty dark.
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  109. @anon
    Foseti said:

    "A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy."

    Puritans have as much influence on US foreign policy as ancient Egyptians. Color revolutions are created and managed by neocons. The allusion to Puritans wasn't random for Foseti. He is a member of the cult of moldbuggery. Blaming Puritans and their descendants for things done by Jews is a central tenet of the cult.

    When I saw the word ‘Puritanical’ I was like ‘oh here we again!’

    A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for Judaic territorial expansion.

    I fixed it.

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  110. The best answer is in the middle of spectra.

    Neither ”ancient egyptians was white” nor ”ancient egyptians was black”.

    Look at to beautiful ethiopian women today and compare them with queen egyptians sculptures.

    Ethiopians aren’t mulato as at least 50% of brazilians are, they are a decanted mixed subrace. Sorry guys, but egyptians images and sculptures don’t look white snow.

    A racially diverse civilisation probably.

    Egypt look like Brazil today and specially during ”colonial era”, but with some differences.

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  111. My two cents:

    Black people think of Egyptians as black, so of course they’re annoyed at black people being written out of history, so to speak. They weren’t really there to begin with, but nobody can say that now.

    It’s not as if there are magical lines dividing races. A Swede looks different from a Bantu, and acts and behaves differently, but every possible intermediate phenotype is present in some person as well (within reason), and nations always mix with the people on either side. So you’re going to get a ‘cline’ of appearances as you move across the world, particularly after you add in all the empires conquering their neighbors over the millennia.

    Are Egyptians white? Sort of. Are Egyptians black? Sort of.

    Reality doesn’t have much to do with ethnic grievance politics, which is the usual squabbling between human tribal groups for spoils.

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  112. @Jefferson
    "Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?"

    I hope that there were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek. Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel.

    I hope that there were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek.

    Since the Greeks are White, I’m guessing that you mean that he was too Northern European in appearance?

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  113. @anonymous-antimarxist

    The Muslim practice of manumission would have facilitated some blending of races.
     
    Hell yes!!!

    Especially after the Muslims castrated their African slaves.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/saudi-offers-castrated-african-slave-for-sale-on-facebook/

    http://www.aina.org/news/2006100394917.htm

    While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.
     
    But everyone knows that by far the very worst slavery practices occurred right here in the good old USA. And totally explains Ferguson.

    What ever you are smoking Dave must be the really good sh*t.

    ‘Prince’ Bandar wasn’t killed at birth. And there are other Saudis who are black.

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  114. @Simon in London
    While modern Egyptians do not resemble African-Americans, modern Egyptians are often dark complexioned, much darker than eg Syrians or Iraqis - who are lighter than most Italians.
    The ancient pre-Ptolemaic Egyptians don't much resemble any existing race, and appear to have been of two main types, long-faced (pretty Caucasoid) and short/round faced, the latter most resembling a stouter Khoi-San. Judging by the art they saw themselves as lighter than the Nubians to the south; but often shown with a golden-brown complexion rather than white.
    I guess there would be nothing wrong with African-Americans playing the round-face type, from what we can tell they are physically at least as similar to them as Europeans are.

    I was at Spirit of America event ~10 years ago, which featured a couple of Iraqi bloggers who were quasi-famous at the time. Both were pretty dark.

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  115. @Anonymous
    Brynner was fantastic as the imperious Egyptian ruler. And his exotic appearance went well with the exoticness of Egypt.

    Brynner was fantastic as the imperious Egyptian ruler. And his exotic appearance went well with the exoticness of Egypt.

    To my way of thinking, Brynner’s two top performances were Rameses in The Ten Commandments and the sinister android gunfighter (dressed just like his character from The Magnificent Seven) in WESTWORLD

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  116. Egypt was always like multiracial. It’s like Central Asia was a mix of Europeans and Asiatics.
    Some pharaohs were on the black-side.
    But statues of Ramses suggest he wasn’t one of them.

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  117. @syonredux

    Perhaps having a guy named Christian play Moses is the real problem here.
     
    I don't think so. Scanning the "lumpengentsia" (great phrase, Steve) sites, the only uproar that I can detect centers around Ridley Scott hiring actors of European descent*.For example, here's a recent piece from the MARY SUE:

    http://www.themarysue.com/christian-bale-exodus-whitewashing/



    *One of the really fascinating developments of recent years is how the "race-does-not-exist" crowd has come to embrace the most extreme versions of late 19th-early 20th century racial attitudes. For example, they seem to think that European and Middle Eastern populations are completely dichotomous.

    Why did Barry Levinson have goyim play Jews in AVALON and BUGSY?
    Does Beatty look Jewish?

    Why did Hollywood have Montgomery Clift play a Jew in YOUNG LIONS?

    And why does Hollywood cast blacks as Moors? Moors had some black DNA but didn’t look like sub-saharan blacks.

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  118. @Rudolphus James
    Modern Egyptians tend to be fairly dark, at least compared to Europeans. I've known several and their families, and of course, seen Anwar Sadat (he seems exceptionally dark for an Egyptian). Not to mention watched my share of the news. That being said, there's plenty of evidence that the ancient Egyptians, the ones who built the pyramids, and were ages ahead of nearly everyone else at the time, were Caucasians and much paler than the current day models- there's even evidence of red-headed pharoahs. So somewhere along the way, they started mating with darker folk, including sub-saharan Africans. Are they white? Visibly you wouldn't think today's batch are, but likely you'd have thought of their ancient ancestors as white. Seems to match with what we know about other demographic facts. They were highly competent as a white country, but have devolved into incompetence as they've gotten more black.

    Of course, blacks are desperate for black achievement, so tend to gloss over this fact, and just pretend that, hey, they're African, so that means they must be black, and must have been black all along and so 'our' ancestors built the pyramids.

    I guess its too much to hope for blacks to ever come to terms with that little inconvenient truth, but white liberals and libertarians should be intelligent enough to come to terms with the fact (if they can think beyond their multiculturalism religion) that it might not be so wise to flood our country with third worlders when we look at historically what has happened to once-great countries that did similar things.

    Saying Egypt is black(pure and simple) is like saying Brazil and Cuba are only black.
    Ridiculous. But the black factor cannot be denied in Egyptian history.

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  119. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:
    @syonredux
    glancing over the cast for Exodus: Gods and Kings:

    John Turturro as Pharaoh Seti: Visually, good casting (Turturro is, after all, a Mediterranean Caucasoid). Might be a stretch to cast him as someone from the Ancient World. Some actors (cf Charleton Heston) have a timeless quality to them and can be effective in any era. Turterro, though, .....I find it difficult to imagine him existing much prior to 1920.

    Sigourney Weaver as QueenTuya: Sounds good.Weaver can do regal.

    Indira Varma as Miriam: The prejudices of our age revealed. The first thing that pops into my mind is why a half-South Asian actress is playing a Hebrew woman in Ancient Egypt.But the PC police are only concerned about Caucasoids from Europe playing Caucasoids from the Middle East.Who-whom in action.

    Neither blacks nor whites should complain.
    Egyptians should complain. They are the ones who were left out.

    Hollywood ethno-casting is mostly stupid.

    Take Memoirs of a Geisha where THREE Chinese women were given the leading roles. No, Japanese and Chinese don’t all look alike. Chinese lookey likey this, Japanese rook rike that.

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    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Uh, ancient China had a written alphabet, stable form of government and other technological wonders while all of SubSaharan Africa was still living in mud huts and hadn't even discovered the wheel (which they wouldn't until around the age of European Colonialism).

    Uh, yes we can state categorically that from a DNA allele standpoint, there isn't any Sub Saharan DNA mix with ancient Egyptians until fairly recently (most likely post Muhammad).

    It is understandable that blacks in particular feel left out from most of the world's great technological advances and civilizations. Therefore they tend to employ circular reasoning to help assuage their lack of self-esteem among other races. It goes something like this: "Everyone" knows that the African continent has blacks (Negroid). Egypt is in North Africa. Therefore "obviously" the ancient Egyptians were black, just as geometry was pioneered by Euclid (who "obviously" was black) and the warrior general Hannibal was also "obviously" black.

    This does tend to be a constant among modern blacks: To claim any major figure of world history if they were born on the African continent and no amount of facts contrary to this worldview are permitted to penetrate their domes.

    Sorry, but the Malcolm X/Louis Farrakhan way of thinking has to cease. It does not make for good science let alone for accurate history.
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  120. Since most modern Jewish people, including movie actors, have overwhelmingly European ancestry, would it really make sense for one of them to play Moses anyway? If you want a realistic ancient Jew in that role, you will have to hire a Jewish leading actor of real Middle Eastern descent.

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  121. @Whiskey
    Cleopatra was in fact, Greek. Being part of the Ptolemiac Dynasty where sister and brother married each other. She spoke only Greek, and a bit of Latin. Not a bit of Egyptian, either. The Egyptians had not had native Pharoahs since the Persians defeated them and placed puppets on the thrones in the 600's BC or so, to be replaced 300 years later by the Alexandrine Ptolemy Dynasty (one of Alexander's Generals).

    As for the Ancient Egyptians themselves, well they left lots and lots of mummies and pictures of themselves. Egyptians being the favorite subject of Egyptians. Brown skinned, not Black, and looking different than the more White skinned Hittites depicted and the Nubians who ruled them briefly. DNA analysis seems to confirm this -- Egyptians were a brown skinned North African people. Who seemed to have moved from North Africa as it dried up into the Nile Valley, as less rainfall made what had been a malarial death-swamp into the only fertile place. The riches of the Nile were so powerful that Greeks familiar with the glories of the newly built Parthenon and the Colossus of Rhodes were simply awestruck by visiting places like Karnak and Memphis where gigantic temple after temple had been built continuously from around 4,000 BC to about 1,200 BC. Those places are still somewhat intact today and still inspire awe. Let alone the Pyramids.

    As for Jewish actors, there are plenty of talented part or wholly Jewish actresses, including Scarlett Johanssen, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Jennifer Connolly (yeah name threw me too), probably NOT including Natalie Portman past age 13 or so. [Portman has been a dead, wooden presence in most of the movies I saw. Kat Dennings was more entertaining in the Thor movies.] Johanssen in the Captain America and Iron Man movies and the Avengers was quite good, able to give a charismatic performance against scene stealers like Downey.

    But Joseph Gordon Levitt? Maybe he's a nice guy, or professional, but he just can't give much of a performance any more. He had more charisma and presence as straight man to looney John Lithgow chewing the scenery, spitting it out, and then chewing it some more, than he does now. I have no idea why he's cast so much, he lacks the masculine presence of a guy like Bruce Willis and thus was a total dud in Looper. In the last Batman movie, he had all the masculine heft of a Starbucks barista.

    The theory of the dearth of masculine actors in Hollywood and the need for UK/Aussie/Kiwi imports by my readers on my blog is, casting directors in Hollywood are mostly gay men with a few women thrown in, and they dislike straight masculine leading guys. Thus Damien Lewis playing Americans, because few actors with his type of presence get jobs in the US. Look at Karl Urban, the guy is a fabulous actor, very funny in R.E.D. as well as a great Judge Dredd, but there have to be American guys like him who just don't get a chance. Instead, the slight pretty boys without any threatening masculine characteristics like Mitchum, Garner, Wayne, etc. This is probably made worse by a general lack of emphasis on male toughness which is hard to fake in modern society, Jews being like Upper Class New Englander Puritan types fleeing "tough" stuff like pro athletics, the military, etc.

    By Brazilian standards, most ancient Egyptians were not black.
    But by the American one-drop rule, many were.

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  122. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:
    @Whiskey
    Cleopatra was in fact, Greek. Being part of the Ptolemiac Dynasty where sister and brother married each other. She spoke only Greek, and a bit of Latin. Not a bit of Egyptian, either. The Egyptians had not had native Pharoahs since the Persians defeated them and placed puppets on the thrones in the 600's BC or so, to be replaced 300 years later by the Alexandrine Ptolemy Dynasty (one of Alexander's Generals).

    As for the Ancient Egyptians themselves, well they left lots and lots of mummies and pictures of themselves. Egyptians being the favorite subject of Egyptians. Brown skinned, not Black, and looking different than the more White skinned Hittites depicted and the Nubians who ruled them briefly. DNA analysis seems to confirm this -- Egyptians were a brown skinned North African people. Who seemed to have moved from North Africa as it dried up into the Nile Valley, as less rainfall made what had been a malarial death-swamp into the only fertile place. The riches of the Nile were so powerful that Greeks familiar with the glories of the newly built Parthenon and the Colossus of Rhodes were simply awestruck by visiting places like Karnak and Memphis where gigantic temple after temple had been built continuously from around 4,000 BC to about 1,200 BC. Those places are still somewhat intact today and still inspire awe. Let alone the Pyramids.

    As for Jewish actors, there are plenty of talented part or wholly Jewish actresses, including Scarlett Johanssen, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Jennifer Connolly (yeah name threw me too), probably NOT including Natalie Portman past age 13 or so. [Portman has been a dead, wooden presence in most of the movies I saw. Kat Dennings was more entertaining in the Thor movies.] Johanssen in the Captain America and Iron Man movies and the Avengers was quite good, able to give a charismatic performance against scene stealers like Downey.

    But Joseph Gordon Levitt? Maybe he's a nice guy, or professional, but he just can't give much of a performance any more. He had more charisma and presence as straight man to looney John Lithgow chewing the scenery, spitting it out, and then chewing it some more, than he does now. I have no idea why he's cast so much, he lacks the masculine presence of a guy like Bruce Willis and thus was a total dud in Looper. In the last Batman movie, he had all the masculine heft of a Starbucks barista.

    The theory of the dearth of masculine actors in Hollywood and the need for UK/Aussie/Kiwi imports by my readers on my blog is, casting directors in Hollywood are mostly gay men with a few women thrown in, and they dislike straight masculine leading guys. Thus Damien Lewis playing Americans, because few actors with his type of presence get jobs in the US. Look at Karl Urban, the guy is a fabulous actor, very funny in R.E.D. as well as a great Judge Dredd, but there have to be American guys like him who just don't get a chance. Instead, the slight pretty boys without any threatening masculine characteristics like Mitchum, Garner, Wayne, etc. This is probably made worse by a general lack of emphasis on male toughness which is hard to fake in modern society, Jews being like Upper Class New Englander Puritan types fleeing "tough" stuff like pro athletics, the military, etc.

    “But Joseph Gordon Levitt? Maybe he’s a nice guy, or professional, but he just can’t give much of a performance any more… I have no idea why he’s cast so much, he lacks the masculine presence of a guy like Bruce Willis and thus was a total dud in Looper.”

    Levitt doesn’t look manly but can act it, esp with his command of voice.

    And keep in mind that Willis gained fame as a clown and raised eyebrows when he was cast as an action actor for Die Hard. He proved himself but he was initially cast against type.

    But Keaton as Batman? That wasn’t convincing in the least.

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  123. @Anonymous
    No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either.

    Some white actors looked exotic/mixed and could take on all sorts of ethnic/racial roles.

    Anthony Quinn could play Greek, Mexican, Eskimo, French, etc.

    But my favorite white-as-non-white role of all time. It also has the greatest line in movie history.

    “Because I am a river to my people.”

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Several contenders for greatest line in movie history in Lawrence of Arabia.
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  124. Two simple points. A pharaoh of that period should probably be cast as a slightly swarthy white man. Moses could be cast as Chinese for all it matters, because Moses didn’t exist. He’s a character f rom a fairy tale.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/israel/familycohanim.html

    Yeah, whatever.
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  125. Though, on second thoughts, perhaps someone who is half white and half East-African might do as Pharaoh. If only I could think of someone like that, of an actorly disposition.

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  126. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:
    @Anonymous
    No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either.

    “No one seemed to object to John Wayne playing Genghis Khan either.”

    Most people don’t remember that one. Most people have forgotten Brando in Teahouse of August Moon.
    But they remember Rooney’s role in Breakfast at Tiffany’s because that is a classic movie.

    When I was young, TV used to show an Omar-Sharif-Genghis-Khan movie pretty regularly.
    The casting was totally bonkers, but I remember loving it.

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  127. @iSteveFan
    Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?

    ‘Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.’

    ‘Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?’

    Bur Kirk doesn’t look it.

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  128. @syonredux

    All this talk of Egyptians and actors and no one mentions Omar Sharif?
     
    For some reason, no one seemed to mind when Omar Sharif played a Russian in Dr Zhivago and a German in Night of the Generals......

    Night of The Generals, a guilty pleasure for me. I never miss it when it’s on. I was and still am totally blown away be the plot twist when Sharif goes to arrest Peter O’Toole. They don’t make them like that any more.

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  129. Bible scholars say Moses was born an Egyptian. He wasn’t a Jew. The shaggy dog story about his being cast adrift in the bulrushes by his Jewish mother is a pile of bull.

    This is why you’ve never seen a Rodney Dangerfield or a Henny Youngman cast as Moses.

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  130. his grandmother must have had a little Asian in her

    LOL!

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  131. @The Z Blog
    Black mythology says the ancient Egyptians were black and the Greeks then Romans stole their culture. That means western civilization is rooted in Africa.

    Black mythology also says that Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin were saints.

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  132. @Truth

    Typically, these are much less cases of identification with black culture and more cases of anti-white cultural-political attitudes. Blacks are simply seen as allies in the anti-white struggle.
     
    I hear you. Or maybe he liked the music.

    Those are Coptic Orthodox clergy from Ethiopia not ethnic Copts from Egypt. Egyptian Christians don’t resemble Ethiopians generally

    The links between Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Copic Orthodox Church go back generations. The head of the Ethiopian church was appointed by head of the Coptic church.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    "Those are Coptic Orthodox clergy from Ethiopia not ethnic Copts from Egypt"

     

    I may have an 85 IQ, but I can make out the caption "Egyptian Coptic Men" under the photo.
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  133. @Tim
    When casting an actor to play Moses, a great leader of men, charisma is even more important than age. Between them, Rudd, Levitt and Garfield couldn't dominate a litter of puppies.

    There are obviously Jewish alpha males who are executives in Hollywood, are there any actors?

    Jewish alpha males are generally not that good-looking. Sheldon Adelson, for example.

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  134. Limited in scope but interesting talk about ethnic conflict and bankster crony capitalism in Beverly Hills:

    http://www.starktruthradio.com/?p=890

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  135. ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK. MOSES (IF HE REALLY EXISTED) WAS BLACK.

    Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.

    We also have their pictures from their tombs, such as these:

    There are countless others on the internet.

    White people came into Egypt first mainly during the invasion by Alexander the Great.

    I know it hurts to know that Moses was a black man (if he existed) because we all imagine the people we like and admire to look like us, but truth is otherwise. He was raised by the Pharaoh as one of his own, and the Pharaoh never recognized him as different. Also, the girls at the well told their father when they saw Moses that an Egyptian helped them. So he looked like an Egyptian to the girls too, and was therefore was black.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.
     
    MMMM, Syria is in Asia. Asians are Mongoloid. Ancient Syrians were Mongoloid.

    There's a reason why people split up Asia into separate sections (Far East/East Asia, Near East/Middle East, South Asia, etc) dear fellow. It's a big continent with a lot of diverse peoples. Africa is the same way.It's a big continent with a lot of diversity.North Africa (with its Caucasoid population) is quite different from sub-Saharan Africa (with its Negroid, Bushmanoid, and Pygmy populations).
    , @Anonymous
    The Kabyle Berbers live in North Africa and are not black. Their presence there predates Alexander the Great's conquest by thousands of years.
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  136. I can’t wait until they cast Idris Elba as Mo… irresistible force meet immovable object.

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  137. Moses wasn’t Egyptian or African. He was a member of a Levantine population temporarily living in Egypt which had not significantly intermingled with the natives.

    All that’s important to know about who’s white and who isn’t is this: “real” whites – traditional whites – have no say in the matter. If an Egyptian decides to call himself white, then he is white. Those of us who are “real” whites – with full European ancestry – have no right to object. If he decides to call himself something else, we also have no right to object. We traditional whites have no right to say who is in or out of the race. That’s for others to decide. And of course there are Jews who play this game all the time – they are or aren’t white, whatever suits them for the moment.

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  138. Read More
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  139. WhatEvvs [AKA "Bemused"] says:

    Tony Curtis & John Garfield were Jewish.

    I’m tired of the casting criticism on racial grounds, and in any case modern Ashkenazi Jewish actors don’t fit the look any more than any other European (Liev Schrieber is not Semitic looking) but this cast sounds ridiculously Northern European.

    Monica Belluci or some other such Mediterranean type would have been much better than Sigourney Weaver. I can think of lots of actors who would have been better in the other roles, but they are all French, Spanish or Italian, and none of their names mean anything to Americans in today’s impoverished film world. Oh for the days of Omar Sharif and Sophia Loren!

    As for Moses, I understand the casting: an A-list actor secures funding, and Scott probably feels an affinity with a fellow Brit. Affinity important for actors and directors. (But Nolan casting that British character actor as an Italian gangster – NO!) And Bale’s a pretty good actor.

    OT, for an example of truly insane casting criticism, see the hissy fit “transgenders” thew over Jared Leto in Dallas Buyer’s Club.

    Well, everybody has two businesses: theirs and the movie business.

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  140. WhatEvvs [AKA "Bemused"] says:

    An example of terrific but ethnically inappropriate casting: the late, great Stephen Boyd as Messala in Ben Hur. He was a ginger Northern Irish Protestant, so they dyed his hair and gave him brown contact lenses. Probably darkened his skin just a tad. Great performance, he made the movie.

    Later on, in FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, they saddled him with a ridiculous blond dye job, and the movie did very badly for all sorts of reasons. Scorsese loves this film. I’ve seen it, it is pretty darn good and you can see how much Scott lifted from it for GLADIATOR.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    An example of terrific but ethnically inappropriate casting: the late, great Stephen Boyd as Messala in Ben Hur. He was a ginger Northern Irish Protestant, so they dyed his hair and gave him brown contact lenses. Probably darkened his skin just a tad. Great performance, he made the movie.
     
    Boyd was instructed by Gore Vidal to play Messala as Gay and with a massive attraction for Heston's Ben-Hur. Check out Boyd's loving glances at Heston when the characters first appear on screen.Boyd really sells it.


    Interestingly, Raquel Welch claims that Boyd was actually Gay in real life; she says that she came on to him while they were filming Fantastic Voyage, and that he had to tell her the facts of life.
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  141. @Anonymous

    Are they white? Visibly you wouldn’t think today’s batch are, but likely you’d have thought of their ancient ancestors as white.
     
    The ancient Egyptians didn't look like northern Europeans, which is what you're implying here by "white". They looked like Middle Eastern Caucasians, like many of them still do today. Because that's what they were. Hosni Mubarak would be an example of what they looked like. Hosni Mubarak is and looks like a Middle Eastern Caucasian. Is Mubarak thought of as white? That depends if northern European is implied by "white", which is what some people seem to think.

    no, that’s not what is implied by “white.” It is recognition of the overall category of “Caucasian” that does apply traditionally to mid-eastern/north african people. The “people of color” applation is of fairly recent vintage, although “Orientals” as they were known in previous centuries, have always been seen as quite distinct from Euros on the whole. Still, some do pass for “European” and not necessarily even of the darkest type of European. I know a lady of entirely Algerian descent who could be French. Not too rare. Not too common either. The ancient Egyptians did call themselves “white” but that was in comparing themselves with the Nubians further south. There are plenty of artistic representations of Egyptians (I recall one that looked a lot like Cat Stevens) that we sort of know what they looked like, and by and large, it was not sub-Saharan Africa (or Swedish.)

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I'm not saying that's what "white" means objectively. I'm saying that's what many people imply by "white".

    The Arabs called themselves "white". The Chinese did as well for that matter in historical sources.
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  142. RE: playing Moses,

    The Ten Commandments (1923): Theodore Roberts

    The Moon of Israel (1924): Hans Marr

    The Ten Commandments (1956): Charlton Heston

    Moses the Lawgiver (1974): Burt Lancaster

    Moses (1995): Ben Kingsley

    The Prince of Egypt (1998): Val Kilmer

    The Ten Commandments (2006): Dougray Scott

    The Ten Commandments (2007): Christian Slater

    Of the bunch, personal favorite is Burt Lancaster in the 1974 mini-series Moses the Lawgiver

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  143. modern Egyptians are often dark complexioned, much darker than eg Syrians or Iraqis – who are lighter than most Italians.

    Roughly half the population of Italy, if not more, lives north of Rome. And the largest populated region is Lombardy. I don’t think most Italians would be darker than Syrians or Iraqis.

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  144. @Jefferson
    I did see some Black faces in the trailer for "Exodus Gods And Kings", but they were background characters rather than important characters that are vital to the film's storyline.

    The PC police won't be happy until a Hollywood biblical film about Moses, Jesus Christ, or Noah resembles the cast of "The Wire".

    They want Moses to look like Omar Little from "The Wire".

    The whole black Jesus movement seems implausible to me. It seems like people think white people sprang into to being a couple hundred years ago and that blonde blue eyed people couldn’t have existed in the Mediterranean. Let’s just ignore the Greeks and the Spartans. Anyway, I think Jesus was white based on the fact that white people followed him. The progressive view is that racism is a new thing. That also seems implausible to me. I imagine it is a very old thing.

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  145. @Anonymous
    Genetic studies of African admixture in the Middle East place the admixture before the Arab invasions, primarily in Roman times.

    If anything, the opposite is probably true, with trade and commerce being disrupted and more socially conservative mores being introduced.

    No, some of the admixture dates to Roman times. There is also evidence of more recent, predominantly female-mediated sub-Saharan admixture in Muslim Middle Eastern populations via the medieval Arab slave trade.

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  146. @Auntie Analogue
    In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Yul Brynner, a Jew, portrayed Pharaoh Rameses. No one then seemed to object to a Jew playing an Egyptian.

    Yul Brynner was only about one-quarter Jewish by ancestry.

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  147. @Alcestis Eshtemoa
    There are some people on The Unz who contradict themselves, meaning they are the first ones to classify Egyptians as a White ethnic group, but do not consider Israeli Jews to be a White ethnic group. Even though the average Egyptian is darker than the average Israeli Jew. Talk about irony.

    Really? Well, I guess I'm a bit different since I classify Egyptians as a separate yellowish North African group, whereas Israelis tend to strike me as more "preserved" and less brownish.

    Israeli Jews tend to have more overbearing mothers and tend to be quite inbred from what I've heard. Their traditional ways for centuries has been to marry/procreate within their social/ethnic group. Middle Easterners are also the same nowadays frankly...

    Is inbreeding (e.g. marriage/children) an Israeli Jewish thing? Possibly...

    “Israeli Jew” is a poor descriptor of ethnicity. The Israeli Jewish population includes pure Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim, mixes of these groups, and smaller numbers of Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews (Bnei Menashe). Pure Ashkenazim account for less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.

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  148. Given what he’s accomplished Rupert Murdoch must be a smart guy but you wouldn’t know it reading his twitter feed or listening to him being interviewed. He is very poor at expressing himself.

    modern Egyptians are often dark complexioned

    Almost every time I’ve seen a light coloured Egyptian they turned out to be Copts.

    Syrians or Iraqis – who are lighter than most Italians.

    Syrians maybe. Iraqis? I doubt it.

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  149. @Priss Factor
    Some white actors looked exotic/mixed and could take on all sorts of ethnic/racial roles.

    Anthony Quinn could play Greek, Mexican, Eskimo, French, etc.

    But my favorite white-as-non-white role of all time. It also has the greatest line in movie history.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abI8cdLvJp8

    "Because I am a river to my people."

    Several contenders for greatest line in movie history in Lawrence of Arabia.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    The second greatest line and the real reason why so many Jews were upset with Donald Sterling.

    "You never open your mouth til you know what the shot is."

    Silly old fool blabbered the tribal secrets to some bimbo.

    It was not what Sterling said. It's whom he said it to and how.

    http://youtu.be/rW7WlT6OJxE?t=1m35s
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  150. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t think Bale is a good choice for Moses. He doesn’t look paternal enough to play Moses.

    George Clooney, Russell Crowe, Mel Gibson, Eric Bana, etc. would have been better choices.

    The Australian actor, Edgerton, who plays Rameses doesn’t look very convincing either. He looks too Anglo with a bad makeup job. There are plenty of more Mediterranean or exotic looking Caucasian actors, so I don’t know why they casted him. It’s not like he’s even very famous. It looks like his performance will quite literally pale in comparison to Brynner’s great performance as Rameses.

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    • Replies: @CJ
    In the 1956 version of The Ten Commandments Nefretiri (played by Anne Baxter) has been betrothed to Rameses (Yul Brynner) and is taken to meet him. The Pharaoh, buff underneath a headdress and some gold bling, tells her:

    “You will be my wife. You will come to me whenever I call you, and I will enjoy that very much. Whether you enjoy it or not is your own affair… but I think you will.”

    Definitely a few cuts aboveFifty Shades ofGrey.
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  151. @Mr. Anon
    "Jefferson says:

    I hope that were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek."

    Douglas's character in "Spartacus" was not a Greek - he was supposed to be a Thracian. What did Thracians look like? I don't know. I always imagined them to look like Kirk Douglas.

    "Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel."

    Ancient greeks proably didn't - they probably looked more like celts or slavs or southern germans. Modern greeks have a lot of turkish and other eastern genes.

    The ancient Greeks did not look like Celts, Slavs, or Germans. They wrote of the “Keltoi” and distinguished themselves from them physically.

    Turks are representative of the Caucasoid Anatolian population that has been in Anatolia for millenia.

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  152. terrapin gape says:

    But my favorite white-as-non-white role of all time. It also has the greatest line in movie history.

    ““Because I am a river to my people.””

    That’s always been one of my favorites. Quinn also had the funniest line in “Lawrence of Arabia”: “Oh, then it was written.”

    He was great in “The Guns of Navarone” too.

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  153. Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.

    That’s “simple logic” all right. Using that “simple logic”, this guy must be pitch black. After all, he’s from South Africa, and South Africa is in Africa, and Africans are black.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius

    Leftists are both racists and congenital idiots.

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  154. EXODUS NEVER HAPPENED.

    This movie Exodus is fiction, because the Jewish exodus never happened. Not only does it violate the laws of common-sense and physics, but also:

    According to Prof. Ze’ev Herzog who teaches in the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, in an article entitled “Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho”:

    “This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. …….Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people – and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story – now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people’s emergence are radically different from what that story tells.” (in an article in the Jewish magazine Haaretz, as republished on):

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm

    For further evidence, see:

    http://www.umsl.edu/~thomaskp/prevoff.htm

    Also seethe article “False Testament” On Harper’s Magazine at:

    http://harpers.org/archive/2002/03/false-testament/

    Copy at:

    http://www.yorku.ca/dcarveth/false_testament

    Since Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened, the entire notion of Jew and Judaism collapses like a house of cards.

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    It's cute that you linked to an Indian Supremacist ...
    , @Father O'Hara
    Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?
    , @ricpic
    No Jews! Schmuck Larry is free at last, free at last!!!
    , @Dave Pinsen
    That settles it. We can all stop blogging about Jews now.
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  155. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian founder of the Muslim Brotherhood who looked like he was part black, on the “Negro” music of jazz:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb#Two_Years_in_America

    The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. “Jazz” music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other. The American’s intoxication in “jazz” music does not reach its full completion until the music is accompanied by singing that is just as coarse and obnoxious as the music itself. Meanwhile, the noise of the instruments and the voices mounts, and it rings in the ears to an unbearable degree… The agitation of the multitude increases, and the voices of approval mount, and their palms ring out in vehement, continuous applause that all but deafens the ears.[23]

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  156. “Larry says:

    ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK. MOSES (IF HE REALLY EXISTED) WAS BLACK.

    Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.”

    Simple, yes. Logic, no. And completely wrong to boot.

    “We also have their pictures from their tombs, such as these:

    There are countless others on the internet.”

    They look like Malays to me. Were the Eyptians Malays?”

    “White people came into Egypt first mainly during the invasion by Alexander the Great.”

    And yet you afrocentrists also claim Cleopatra as black. But if the ignorance and self-delusion make you happy – knock yourself out.

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  157. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Several contenders for greatest line in movie history in Lawrence of Arabia.

    The second greatest line and the real reason why so many Jews were upset with Donald Sterling.

    “You never open your mouth til you know what the shot is.”

    Silly old fool blabbered the tribal secrets to some bimbo.

    It was not what Sterling said. It’s whom he said it to and how.

    http://youtu.be/rW7WlT6OJxE?t=1m35s

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  158. “Anonymous says:

    The ancient Greeks did not look like Celts, Slavs, or Germans. They wrote of the “Keltoi” and distinguished themselves from them physically.”

    The Greeks were notoriously chauvinistic; that they fancied themselves so different from Celts, Slavs, and Germans (with whom they were not so distantly related) can probably be chalked up to their arrogance.

    “Turks are representative of the Caucasoid Anatolian population that has been in Anatolia for millenia.”

    They are also representative of the east-asian Mongols who overran those areas and occupied them for centuries.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The physical differences among Europeans are apparent. Northern and southern Europeans look different, despite being related. The Greeks themselves were a mix of Greek speakers and the pre-Greek, Mediterranean Minoans and others.

    The Turks that invaded weren't east asian Mongols. They were mainly west Asian Caucasoids. Furthermore they didn't leave a major genetic imprint on the Caucasoid Anatolian population.
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  159. Folks, science exists:

    http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1002397

    Modern Egyptians are about half Arab, a little over a tenth East African, and roughly a fifth European. They are (as expected) closest in their genetics to modern Libyans. The East African admixture seems to be largely Medieval.

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  160. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Larry
    EXODUS NEVER HAPPENED.

    This movie Exodus is fiction, because the Jewish exodus never happened. Not only does it violate the laws of common-sense and physics, but also:

    According to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog who teaches in the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, in an article entitled "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho":

    "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. …….Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells." (in an article in the Jewish magazine Haaretz, as republished on):

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm

    For further evidence, see:
    http://www.umsl.edu/~thomaskp/prevoff.htm

    Also seethe article “False Testament” On Harper’s Magazine at:

    http://harpers.org/archive/2002/03/false-testament/

    Copy at:

    http://www.yorku.ca/dcarveth/false_testament

    Since Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened, the entire notion of Jew and Judaism collapses like a house of cards.

    It’s cute that you linked to an Indian Supremacist …

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  161. @dearieme
    Two simple points. A pharaoh of that period should probably be cast as a slightly swarthy white man. Moses could be cast as Chinese for all it matters, because Moses didn't exist. He's a character f rom a fairy tale.
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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Yeah, whatever.
     
    Does nothing for the historicity of Moses, dear fellow. Moses did not exist and the Exodus never happened.Everything in the Bible prior to the United Monarchy of Saul, David, and Solomon is pure myth. As for the United Monarchy, it is, at best, semi-historical in character. Think King Arthur.Genuine history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC.
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  162. @dcite
    no, that's not what is implied by "white." It is recognition of the overall category of "Caucasian" that does apply traditionally to mid-eastern/north african people. The "people of color" applation is of fairly recent vintage, although "Orientals" as they were known in previous centuries, have always been seen as quite distinct from Euros on the whole. Still, some do pass for "European" and not necessarily even of the darkest type of European. I know a lady of entirely Algerian descent who could be French. Not too rare. Not too common either. The ancient Egyptians did call themselves "white" but that was in comparing themselves with the Nubians further south. There are plenty of artistic representations of Egyptians (I recall one that looked a lot like Cat Stevens) that we sort of know what they looked like, and by and large, it was not sub-Saharan Africa (or Swedish.)

    I’m not saying that’s what “white” means objectively. I’m saying that’s what many people imply by “white”.

    The Arabs called themselves “white”. The Chinese did as well for that matter in historical sources.

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  163. Some years ago, Biblical Archeology Review publish a series of advertisements for copies of the bust of Nefertiti, showing her as completely white (which she is–I’ve seen the original in Berlin). A black reader wrote in denouncing the ads as racist, because Nefertiti, being African, was in reality a black women.

    In response to the letter, the editor of BAR published some comments by an Egyptologist, Frank Yurco, (Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago ) who came to the conclusion that Egyptians today look pretty much like Egyptians back then–mostly whitish in the north, and getting darker as you move south.

    The article is available here (subscription needed): http://members.bib-arch.org/publication.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=15&Issue=05&ArticleID=02&UserID=0&

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  164. @WhatEvvs
    An example of terrific but ethnically inappropriate casting: the late, great Stephen Boyd as Messala in Ben Hur. He was a ginger Northern Irish Protestant, so they dyed his hair and gave him brown contact lenses. Probably darkened his skin just a tad. Great performance, he made the movie.

    Later on, in FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, they saddled him with a ridiculous blond dye job, and the movie did very badly for all sorts of reasons. Scorsese loves this film. I've seen it, it is pretty darn good and you can see how much Scott lifted from it for GLADIATOR.

    An example of terrific but ethnically inappropriate casting: the late, great Stephen Boyd as Messala in Ben Hur. He was a ginger Northern Irish Protestant, so they dyed his hair and gave him brown contact lenses. Probably darkened his skin just a tad. Great performance, he made the movie.

    Boyd was instructed by Gore Vidal to play Messala as Gay and with a massive attraction for Heston’s Ben-Hur. Check out Boyd’s loving glances at Heston when the characters first appear on screen.Boyd really sells it.

    Interestingly, Raquel Welch claims that Boyd was actually Gay in real life; she says that she came on to him while they were filming Fantastic Voyage, and that he had to tell her the facts of life.

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    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    The "play it as gay" story began with Gore Vidal. He's the only source. He claims he told Willie Wyler about it and Wyler said not to tell Cornpone. I dunno whether I believe this. Giving a gay subtext to a straight story is as old as Iago and Othello (Gielgud, remember?), so it could have been. I have to say, I never saw this in the exchange. All I see is intensity, and friendship. But then, I'm not looking for it. The power of suggestion is strong.

    Boyd was was a tortured soul whose Hollywood career shriveled and who drank too much. Sadly, he was on the verge of a comeback, gave a great performance in Michael Apted's first movie THE SQUEEZE, but died of a heart attack on the golf course in 1978.

    A gay golf nut? Anything's possible. Or perhaps he just didn't like Raquel Welch. Anything's possible.

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  165. Moses. Was. Not. Egyptian. He wasn’t even Jewish, in the sense of being from the tribe of Judah. His people were from the Levant, a region of Asia occupied by a relatively light skinned people.

    Now you could make the pharaoh and all the Egyptians black, and have them defeated by the lighter-skinned Israelites. I’m sure that would go over well…

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  166. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "Anonymous says:

    @Mr. Anon

    The ancient Greeks did not look like Celts, Slavs, or Germans. They wrote of the “Keltoi” and distinguished themselves from them physically."

    The Greeks were notoriously chauvinistic; that they fancied themselves so different from Celts, Slavs, and Germans (with whom they were not so distantly related) can probably be chalked up to their arrogance.

    "Turks are representative of the Caucasoid Anatolian population that has been in Anatolia for millenia."

    They are also representative of the east-asian Mongols who overran those areas and occupied them for centuries.

    The physical differences among Europeans are apparent. Northern and southern Europeans look different, despite being related. The Greeks themselves were a mix of Greek speakers and the pre-Greek, Mediterranean Minoans and others.

    The Turks that invaded weren’t east asian Mongols. They were mainly west Asian Caucasoids. Furthermore they didn’t leave a major genetic imprint on the Caucasoid Anatolian population.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    The Turks that invaded weren’t east asian Mongols.

    True. The Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, who have very East Asian features, are probably the closest to the "Urturks". By the time the Turks invaded Anatolia they had swept up a lot of the originally Persian peoples of Central Asia, and the Turkish invaders didn't replace the original Anatolian populations either, they interbred with them.
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  167. WhatEvvs [AKA "Bemused"] says:
    @syonredux

    An example of terrific but ethnically inappropriate casting: the late, great Stephen Boyd as Messala in Ben Hur. He was a ginger Northern Irish Protestant, so they dyed his hair and gave him brown contact lenses. Probably darkened his skin just a tad. Great performance, he made the movie.
     
    Boyd was instructed by Gore Vidal to play Messala as Gay and with a massive attraction for Heston's Ben-Hur. Check out Boyd's loving glances at Heston when the characters first appear on screen.Boyd really sells it.


    Interestingly, Raquel Welch claims that Boyd was actually Gay in real life; she says that she came on to him while they were filming Fantastic Voyage, and that he had to tell her the facts of life.

    The “play it as gay” story began with Gore Vidal. He’s the only source. He claims he told Willie Wyler about it and Wyler said not to tell Cornpone. I dunno whether I believe this. Giving a gay subtext to a straight story is as old as Iago and Othello (Gielgud, remember?), so it could have been. I have to say, I never saw this in the exchange. All I see is intensity, and friendship. But then, I’m not looking for it. The power of suggestion is strong.

    Boyd was was a tortured soul whose Hollywood career shriveled and who drank too much. Sadly, he was on the verge of a comeback, gave a great performance in Michael Apted’s first movie THE SQUEEZE, but died of a heart attack on the golf course in 1978.

    A gay golf nut? Anything’s possible. Or perhaps he just didn’t like Raquel Welch. Anything’s possible.

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  168. @Anonymous
    The physical differences among Europeans are apparent. Northern and southern Europeans look different, despite being related. The Greeks themselves were a mix of Greek speakers and the pre-Greek, Mediterranean Minoans and others.

    The Turks that invaded weren't east asian Mongols. They were mainly west Asian Caucasoids. Furthermore they didn't leave a major genetic imprint on the Caucasoid Anatolian population.

    The Turks that invaded weren’t east asian Mongols.

    True. The Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, who have very East Asian features, are probably the closest to the “Urturks”. By the time the Turks invaded Anatolia they had swept up a lot of the originally Persian peoples of Central Asia, and the Turkish invaders didn’t replace the original Anatolian populations either, they interbred with them.

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  169. @Art Deco
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/israel/familycohanim.html

    Yeah, whatever.

    Yeah, whatever.

    Does nothing for the historicity of Moses, dear fellow. Moses did not exist and the Exodus never happened.Everything in the Bible prior to the United Monarchy of Saul, David, and Solomon is pure myth. As for the United Monarchy, it is, at best, semi-historical in character. Think King Arthur.Genuine history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC.

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    • Replies: @dearieme
    "history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC": I'm surprised it's as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?
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  170. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    @syon, iSteveFan
    & Auntie Analogue,

    the French edition of Wikipedia, usually quiet on this matter, is surprisingly forthcoming:

    Marousia Blagоvidova, fille d’un médecin russe de confession juive.

    Marousia Blagоvidova, [his mother] the daughter of a Russian doctor of Jewish faith.

    Yul Brynner était le parrain de l’écrivain Nathalie Rheims et de l’actrice Charlotte Gainsbourg.

    Yul Brynner was the godfather to writer Nathalie Rheims and actress Charlotte Gainsbourg.

    Both have impeccable credentials.

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  171. @Larry
    ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK. MOSES (IF HE REALLY EXISTED) WAS BLACK.

    Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.

    We also have their pictures from their tombs, such as these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tomb_of_Nakht_%282%29.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Musicians_and_dancers_on_fresco_at_Tomb_of_Nebamun.jpg

    There are countless others on the internet.

    White people came into Egypt first mainly during the invasion by Alexander the Great.

    I know it hurts to know that Moses was a black man (if he existed) because we all imagine the people we like and admire to look like us, but truth is otherwise. He was raised by the Pharaoh as one of his own, and the Pharaoh never recognized him as different. Also, the girls at the well told their father when they saw Moses that an Egyptian helped them. So he looked like an Egyptian to the girls too, and was therefore was black.

    Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.

    MMMM, Syria is in Asia. Asians are Mongoloid. Ancient Syrians were Mongoloid.

    There’s a reason why people split up Asia into separate sections (Far East/East Asia, Near East/Middle East, South Asia, etc) dear fellow. It’s a big continent with a lot of diverse peoples. Africa is the same way.It’s a big continent with a lot of diversity.North Africa (with its Caucasoid population) is quite different from sub-Saharan Africa (with its Negroid, Bushmanoid, and Pygmy populations).

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  172. @syonredux

    Yeah, whatever.
     
    Does nothing for the historicity of Moses, dear fellow. Moses did not exist and the Exodus never happened.Everything in the Bible prior to the United Monarchy of Saul, David, and Solomon is pure myth. As for the United Monarchy, it is, at best, semi-historical in character. Think King Arthur.Genuine history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC.

    “history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC”: I’m surprised it’s as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Most of the details about Abraham (c. 1800 BC) are mundane. I can't see how chroniclers could resist punching it up with more interesting stuff, unless they were really trying to put down in writing the family stories. The story of Moses, in contrast, is boffo stuff, which is why Moses gets made into blockbuster movies a lot more than Abraham.
    , @syonredux

    “history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC”: I’m surprised it’s as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?
     
    Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC). It confirms the existence of some of the personages and events mentioned in the Book of Kings (cf 2 Kings 3:4-8).Hence, it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on.Obviously, there's still a lot of propaganda and mythologizing going on, but the basic outline seems fairly reliable.
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  173. My ideal casting for Moses and others.

    Moses: Mel Brooks or Ben Stein

    Moses’ wife: Mona Charen

    Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc.

    ————-

    But more importantly, I wish this was not a Ridley Scott movie.
    KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, though not without merit, was big and dumb, over-inflated with grandiosity.

    The first half of NOAH by Aronofsky is stupid but the film grows in depth and stature in the second half. The Aronofsky that did the second part of NOAH should have made the new Moses movie. Aronofsky has many faults, but he is a director with ideas, something Scott is not. Scott sometimes has a great eye. But when the material is poor, the overall movie is poor.
    To this day, his only truly great film is BLADE RUNNER.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Blade Runner is a boring shitty movie. It's only good for the visuals. And that's what most people mean when they say they like the movie. It's the visual world building of the movie that's interesting. The plot is boring and sucks.

    Kingdom of Heaven sucked. And it wasn't visually interesting because there was too much CGI for the battles. Exodus looks like it will have too much CGI. CGI has a dullness about it. I don't think Exodus will have the rich, bold colors of the technicolor original.
    , @Wilkey
    "Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc."

    Really? We're filming an orgy, and those are the Jews that come to mind?

    Why not Natalie Portman, Julianna Margulies, and Emmy Rossum? Keri Russell, Jennifer Connelly, and Scarlett Johansson also claim Jewish ancestry. I'll take them, too. It's an orgy, but it's for a good, religious cause. I'm certain they won't object.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    Didn't Mel Brooks play Moses in History of the World, Part I?
    , @Simon
    As a war-movie buff, I'd nominate "Black Hawk Down" -- a personal favorite.
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  174. If ancient Egyptians were black, they invented civilizational slavery, and if Greeks stole everything from black Egypt, then whites learned slavery from blacks who invented it.

    So, the original sin of slavery goes back to Egyptian ‘blacks’.

    So, shut up, Negroes.

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  175. The only true Moses.

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  176. @Tim
    When casting an actor to play Moses, a great leader of men, charisma is even more important than age. Between them, Rudd, Levitt and Garfield couldn't dominate a litter of puppies.

    There are obviously Jewish alpha males who are executives in Hollywood, are there any actors?

    Adam Sandler?

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  177. @syonredux

    Does Downey count?
     
    No; he's only one quarter Jewish:

    Downey was born in Manhattan, New York, the younger of two children. His father, Robert Downey, Sr., is an actor and filmmaker, while his mother, Elsie Ann (née Ford), was also an actress, who appeared in Downey, Sr.'s films.[3] Downey's father is of half Lithuanian Jewish and half Irish and Hungarian descent, while Downey's mother has Scottish, German, and Swiss ancestry.
     

    Downey’s rather good looking for all those ethnicities being mixed up in him..I guess the Irish predominates?

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  178. Burt Lancaster as Moses.

    John Simon’s review of this movie in SOMETHING TO DECLARE is one of the funniest reviews I ever done read.

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  179. @Larry
    ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK. MOSES (IF HE REALLY EXISTED) WAS BLACK.

    Egypt is in Africa. Africans are black. Ancient Egyptians were pitch black. Simple logic.

    We also have their pictures from their tombs, such as these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tomb_of_Nakht_%282%29.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Musicians_and_dancers_on_fresco_at_Tomb_of_Nebamun.jpg

    There are countless others on the internet.

    White people came into Egypt first mainly during the invasion by Alexander the Great.

    I know it hurts to know that Moses was a black man (if he existed) because we all imagine the people we like and admire to look like us, but truth is otherwise. He was raised by the Pharaoh as one of his own, and the Pharaoh never recognized him as different. Also, the girls at the well told their father when they saw Moses that an Egyptian helped them. So he looked like an Egyptian to the girls too, and was therefore was black.

    The Kabyle Berbers live in North Africa and are not black. Their presence there predates Alexander the Great’s conquest by thousands of years.

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  180. Its said that Moses married a Hittite gal.(“come round the outside,round the outside..”) Theyre supposed to be black,n’est-ce pas? that could be some fun casting. How about Rihanna?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Hittites homeland was in Anatolia, and their aristocracy spoke an Indo-European language. Where did you hear of an association between the Hittites and blackness because that's certainly new to me?
    , @syonredux

    Its said that Moses married a Hittite gal.(“come round the outside,round the outside..”)
     
    No. I think that you are referencing the Cushite woman that Miriam objected to in Numbers 12: 10-14.

    Theyre supposed to be black,n’est-ce pas? that could be some fun casting. How about Rihanna?
     
    No, the Hittites were an Indo-European people (or perhaps Indo-Hittite would be the better designation, seeing as how they branched off from I-E at a very early stage) who lived in Anatolia.So, no, they are not Negroid.
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  181. @dearieme
    "history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC": I'm surprised it's as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?

    Most of the details about Abraham (c. 1800 BC) are mundane. I can’t see how chroniclers could resist punching it up with more interesting stuff, unless they were really trying to put down in writing the family stories. The story of Moses, in contrast, is boffo stuff, which is why Moses gets made into blockbuster movies a lot more than Abraham.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Most of the details about Abraham (c. 1800 BC) are mundane. I can’t see how chroniclers could resist punching it up with more interesting stuff, unless they were really trying to put down in writing the family stories.
     
    The devil is in the details, Steve.One of the big problems with reading the Patriarchal narratives (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph) as factual accounts is that they don't match up with a circa 1800 BC date. The details are all wrong:

    In the early to mid-20th century, leading scholars such as William F. Albright and Albrecht Alt believed the patriarchs and matriarchs to be either real individuals or believable composite people living in the "patriarchal age", the 2nd millennium BCE. In the 1970s, however, new conclusions about Israel's past and the biblical texts challenged this portrait. The two works largely responsible were Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974), and John Van Seters' Abraham in History and Tradition (1975). Thompson's argument, based on archaeology and ancient texts, was that no compelling evidence pointed to the patriarchs living in the 2nd millennium and that the biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns; Van Seters, basing himself on an examination of the patriarchal stories, agreed with Thompson that their names, social milieu and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations.[7] By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".[8]
     
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  182. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor
    My ideal casting for Moses and others.

    Moses: Mel Brooks or Ben Stein

    Moses' wife: Mona Charen

    Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc.

    -------------

    But more importantly, I wish this was not a Ridley Scott movie.
    KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, though not without merit, was big and dumb, over-inflated with grandiosity.

    The first half of NOAH by Aronofsky is stupid but the film grows in depth and stature in the second half. The Aronofsky that did the second part of NOAH should have made the new Moses movie. Aronofsky has many faults, but he is a director with ideas, something Scott is not. Scott sometimes has a great eye. But when the material is poor, the overall movie is poor.
    To this day, his only truly great film is BLADE RUNNER.

    Blade Runner is a boring shitty movie. It’s only good for the visuals. And that’s what most people mean when they say they like the movie. It’s the visual world building of the movie that’s interesting. The plot is boring and sucks.

    Kingdom of Heaven sucked. And it wasn’t visually interesting because there was too much CGI for the battles. Exodus looks like it will have too much CGI. CGI has a dullness about it. I don’t think Exodus will have the rich, bold colors of the technicolor original.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "Blade Runner is a boring shitty movie."

    Boring people find great movies boring.
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  183. “Anonymous says:

    The physical differences among Europeans are apparent. Northern and southern Europeans look different, despite being related. The Greeks themselves were a mix of Greek speakers and the pre-Greek, Mediterranean Minoans and others.”

    Based on their statuary, they look little different than other europeans – latins, celts, southern slavs, etc. The claim I was rebutting was that ancient greeks were darker skinned, like Egyptians seemed to have been. I don’t think that there is any evidence for that.

    “The Turks that invaded weren’t east asian Mongols. They were mainly west Asian Caucasoids. Furthermore they didn’t leave a major genetic imprint on the Caucasoid Anatolian population.”

    On this you appear to be correct – the east-asian admixture in modern Turks is less than I had thought.

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  184. @Larry
    EXODUS NEVER HAPPENED.

    This movie Exodus is fiction, because the Jewish exodus never happened. Not only does it violate the laws of common-sense and physics, but also:

    According to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog who teaches in the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, in an article entitled "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho":

    "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. …….Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells." (in an article in the Jewish magazine Haaretz, as republished on):

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm

    For further evidence, see:
    http://www.umsl.edu/~thomaskp/prevoff.htm

    Also seethe article “False Testament” On Harper’s Magazine at:

    http://harpers.org/archive/2002/03/false-testament/

    Copy at:

    http://www.yorku.ca/dcarveth/false_testament

    Since Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened, the entire notion of Jew and Judaism collapses like a house of cards.

    Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?"

    The first Jewish guy who cut off his foreskin.. that was Abraham. So, even if his name wasn't 'Abraham', he was Abraham-in-effect.

    , @syonredux

    Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?
     
    No.
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  185. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:

    http://youtu.be/z7MF2phw_Oo?t=1h13m39s

    Check out this scene in TROJAN WOMEN. The movie finally comes to life when Irene Pappas appears. What a beauty. How authentic. She is Greek through and through. Though other actors and actresses are good in this movie too, they seem like they’re putting on an act. But when Pappas appears, we are transported to ancient times. She’s the real thing. Everything about her says THIS IS GREEK.

    So, I would like to see Hollywood hiring more locals for movies like this. Egypt has a movie industry and actors. Memoirs of a Geisha could have been a half-decent movie if more Japanese had been consulted and hired for roles. LAST SAMURAI is no great masterpiece, but it works because the actors are Japanese. They look it and feel it.
    Costner hired real Indians for DANCES WITH WOLVES, and that was the best thing about that movie(that wasn’t otherwise very good).

    But then, of course, Hollywood rides on star power. Christian Bale is a world famous actor whereas we don’t know any Egyptian ones. It’s too bad that Americans(and people around the world) prefer big name Hollywood stars over local/indigenous ones even in movie taking part in exotic locations. Even non-whites want to see some white guy play Egyptian roles. Even some hindu guy in Mumbai wants to see a big name Hollywood actor in roles in non-western locales.

    I think ALEXANDER and TROY would have done better with Greek actors.

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    • Replies: @Dutch Boy
    Agreed. Irene Pappas was a real beauty.
    , @Steve Austen
    I think former Egyptian Bridge international Omar Sharif was too old for the role but then again I am a little bit ageist.
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  186. @Anonymous
    Blade Runner is a boring shitty movie. It's only good for the visuals. And that's what most people mean when they say they like the movie. It's the visual world building of the movie that's interesting. The plot is boring and sucks.

    Kingdom of Heaven sucked. And it wasn't visually interesting because there was too much CGI for the battles. Exodus looks like it will have too much CGI. CGI has a dullness about it. I don't think Exodus will have the rich, bold colors of the technicolor original.

    “Blade Runner is a boring shitty movie.”

    Boring people find great movies boring.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Pretentious bores find boring movies great.
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  187. “Anonymous says:

    Kingdom of Heaven sucked. And it wasn’t visually interesting because there was too much CGI for the battles.”

    Agreed. “Gladiator” did too. As corny as they often were, I would rather watch “Ben Hur” or “The Ten Commandments”. I think that Scott can be a very good director, and he has it in him to make a great historical epic (well, costume-epic, anyway – how historical is the story of Moses can be questioned), but neither “Kindom of Heaven” nor “Gladiator were such.

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  188. “Its said that Moses married a Hittite gal.(“come round the outside,round the outside..”) Theyre supposed to be black,n’est-ce pas?”

    Nay. The Hittites were centered in Turkey, and the Hittite Kingdom was, SFAIK, one of the first major kingdoms to speak an Indo-European language.

    Even back then the elite were trying to marry white…

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  189. @Priss Factor
    My ideal casting for Moses and others.

    Moses: Mel Brooks or Ben Stein

    Moses' wife: Mona Charen

    Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc.

    -------------

    But more importantly, I wish this was not a Ridley Scott movie.
    KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, though not without merit, was big and dumb, over-inflated with grandiosity.

    The first half of NOAH by Aronofsky is stupid but the film grows in depth and stature in the second half. The Aronofsky that did the second part of NOAH should have made the new Moses movie. Aronofsky has many faults, but he is a director with ideas, something Scott is not. Scott sometimes has a great eye. But when the material is poor, the overall movie is poor.
    To this day, his only truly great film is BLADE RUNNER.

    “Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc.”

    Really? We’re filming an orgy, and those are the Jews that come to mind?

    Why not Natalie Portman, Julianna Margulies, and Emmy Rossum? Keri Russell, Jennifer Connelly, and Scarlett Johansson also claim Jewish ancestry. I’ll take them, too. It’s an orgy, but it’s for a good, religious cause. I’m certain they won’t object.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "Really? We’re filming an orgy, and those are the Jews that come to mind?"

    But re-imagine the scene in TEN COMMANDMENTS. Moses(Heston)descends from Mt. Sinai and is appalled by what he sees. He calls out on the evildoers, and we see Howard Stern mocking him. And then Ron Jeremy pulls apart his robe and shows his meat. That would be a killer scene.
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  190. @Father O'Hara
    Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?

    “Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?”

    The first Jewish guy who cut off his foreskin.. that was Abraham. So, even if his name wasn’t ‘Abraham’, he was Abraham-in-effect.

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  191. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:
    @Wilkey
    "Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc."

    Really? We're filming an orgy, and those are the Jews that come to mind?

    Why not Natalie Portman, Julianna Margulies, and Emmy Rossum? Keri Russell, Jennifer Connelly, and Scarlett Johansson also claim Jewish ancestry. I'll take them, too. It's an orgy, but it's for a good, religious cause. I'm certain they won't object.

    “Really? We’re filming an orgy, and those are the Jews that come to mind?”

    But re-imagine the scene in TEN COMMANDMENTS. Moses(Heston)descends from Mt. Sinai and is appalled by what he sees. He calls out on the evildoers, and we see Howard Stern mocking him. And then Ron Jeremy pulls apart his robe and shows his meat. That would be a killer scene.

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  192. @Father O'Hara
    Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?

    Mind a dumb question? Did Abraham exist?

    No.

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  193. @Priss Factor
    "Blade Runner is a boring shitty movie."

    Boring people find great movies boring.

    Pretentious bores find boring movies great.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "Pretentious bores find boring movies great."

    You're little people.
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  194. @dearieme
    "history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC": I'm surprised it's as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?

    “history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC”: I’m surprised it’s as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?

    Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC). It confirms the existence of some of the personages and events mentioned in the Book of Kings (cf 2 Kings 3:4-8).Hence, it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on.Obviously, there’s still a lot of propaganda and mythologizing going on, but the basic outline seems fairly reliable.

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    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Unlike most here who are not trained biblical scholars, there tends to be a wide interpretation among scholars as to when events can be taken for historical reliability. Some place it around 1000BC while others place it at 1500BC and 1800BC.

    Judaism and Christianity rest and fall on the supernatural events as described in the Bible. It is nearly impossible to separate them from the theological teachings contained in the Scriptures (particularly the latter, Christianity). Some things are better left to the actual competent scholars, archeologists, linguists, etc. who make their living in these fields to better determine a universal consensus regarding such matters.

    What is relevant is how the film has been marketed. The 06 version contained mainly white actors playing the Egyptians so why is there controversy on this one?

    , @dearieme
    "Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC) ... it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on". That's interesting. Is it unfair to say that's a bit late from the point of view of religion, because the big-deal stuff in the Old Testament had already purportedly happened?

    Golly, my memory of all this stuff is weak. So much for Sunday School.
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  195. @Priss Factor
    Neither blacks nor whites should complain.
    Egyptians should complain. They are the ones who were left out.

    Hollywood ethno-casting is mostly stupid.

    Take Memoirs of a Geisha where THREE Chinese women were given the leading roles. No, Japanese and Chinese don't all look alike. Chinese lookey likey this, Japanese rook rike that.

    Uh, ancient China had a written alphabet, stable form of government and other technological wonders while all of SubSaharan Africa was still living in mud huts and hadn’t even discovered the wheel (which they wouldn’t until around the age of European Colonialism).

    Uh, yes we can state categorically that from a DNA allele standpoint, there isn’t any Sub Saharan DNA mix with ancient Egyptians until fairly recently (most likely post Muhammad).

    It is understandable that blacks in particular feel left out from most of the world’s great technological advances and civilizations. Therefore they tend to employ circular reasoning to help assuage their lack of self-esteem among other races. It goes something like this: “Everyone” knows that the African continent has blacks (Negroid). Egypt is in North Africa. Therefore “obviously” the ancient Egyptians were black, just as geometry was pioneered by Euclid (who “obviously” was black) and the warrior general Hannibal was also “obviously” black.

    This does tend to be a constant among modern blacks: To claim any major figure of world history if they were born on the African continent and no amount of facts contrary to this worldview are permitted to penetrate their domes.

    Sorry, but the Malcolm X/Louis Farrakhan way of thinking has to cease. It does not make for good science let alone for accurate history.

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  196. @Father O'Hara
    Its said that Moses married a Hittite gal.("come round the outside,round the outside..") Theyre supposed to be black,n'est-ce pas? that could be some fun casting. How about Rihanna?

    The Hittites homeland was in Anatolia, and their aristocracy spoke an Indo-European language. Where did you hear of an association between the Hittites and blackness because that’s certainly new to me?

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  197. @syonredux

    “history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC”: I’m surprised it’s as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?
     
    Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC). It confirms the existence of some of the personages and events mentioned in the Book of Kings (cf 2 Kings 3:4-8).Hence, it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on.Obviously, there's still a lot of propaganda and mythologizing going on, but the basic outline seems fairly reliable.

    Unlike most here who are not trained biblical scholars, there tends to be a wide interpretation among scholars as to when events can be taken for historical reliability. Some place it around 1000BC while others place it at 1500BC and 1800BC.

    Judaism and Christianity rest and fall on the supernatural events as described in the Bible. It is nearly impossible to separate them from the theological teachings contained in the Scriptures (particularly the latter, Christianity). Some things are better left to the actual competent scholars, archeologists, linguists, etc. who make their living in these fields to better determine a universal consensus regarding such matters.

    What is relevant is how the film has been marketed. The 06 version contained mainly white actors playing the Egyptians so why is there controversy on this one?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Unlike most here who are not trained biblical scholars, there tends to be a wide interpretation among scholars as to when events can be taken for historical reliability. Some place it around 1000BC while others place it at 1500BC and 1800BC.
     
    All those dates are too early.The Israelite historical consciousness did not extend back to 1800 or 1500 BC. That epoch was a pre-historical never-never land to them. 1000 BC was the outer frontier of Israelite history, the earliest epoch of which they had even the slenderest strand of authentic memory.

    Judaism and Christianity rest and fall on the supernatural events as described in the Bible. It is nearly impossible to separate them from the theological teachings contained in the Scriptures (particularly the latter, Christianity). Some things are better left to the actual competent scholars, archeologists, linguists, etc. who make their living in these fields to better determine a universal consensus regarding such matters.
     
    You'll never get a "universal consensus" in a field like Biblical archaeology.However, pretty much no one believes in the historicity of figures like Abraham and Moses.

    What is relevant is how the film has been marketed. The 06 version contained mainly white actors playing the Egyptians so why is there controversy on this one?
     
    2014 isn't 2006.The PC playing field has moved farther to the Left.
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  198. @Steve Sailer
    Most of the details about Abraham (c. 1800 BC) are mundane. I can't see how chroniclers could resist punching it up with more interesting stuff, unless they were really trying to put down in writing the family stories. The story of Moses, in contrast, is boffo stuff, which is why Moses gets made into blockbuster movies a lot more than Abraham.

    Most of the details about Abraham (c. 1800 BC) are mundane. I can’t see how chroniclers could resist punching it up with more interesting stuff, unless they were really trying to put down in writing the family stories.

    The devil is in the details, Steve.One of the big problems with reading the Patriarchal narratives (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph) as factual accounts is that they don’t match up with a circa 1800 BC date. The details are all wrong:

    In the early to mid-20th century, leading scholars such as William F. Albright and Albrecht Alt believed the patriarchs and matriarchs to be either real individuals or believable composite people living in the “patriarchal age”, the 2nd millennium BCE. In the 1970s, however, new conclusions about Israel’s past and the biblical texts challenged this portrait. The two works largely responsible were Thomas L. Thompson’s The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974), and John Van Seters’ Abraham in History and Tradition (1975). Thompson’s argument, based on archaeology and ancient texts, was that no compelling evidence pointed to the patriarchs living in the 2nd millennium and that the biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns; Van Seters, basing himself on an examination of the patriarchal stories, agreed with Thompson that their names, social milieu and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations.[7] By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had “given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible ‘historical figures’”.[8]

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  199. In this film when Moses descends from Mount Sinai is he carrying the Ten Commandments or the more “correct” Ten Suggestions?

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  200. Anwar Sadat was half Sudanese. He was not really a typical Egyptian, although there are many who like him more or less. The Egyptian princess who married the Shah in the 1940s was a blue eyed beauty, though that might be because of a French grandmothers several generations back. But I knew a Copitc Egyptian who was pretty sick of Egypt, Egyptians and all things middle eastern. He didn’t even want to go to Italy because he thought they would be noisy, like Egyptians. He himself preferred Vangelis and was vegetarian. He said when he first came to America he would sort of joke with blacks about being African, but after a while he had no inclination to do that anymore, and by and large was repulsed by the black sub-culture here, though of course he like individual blacks ok. But I did not get the idea that he identified with blacks, or had any desire to do so. As far as looks, when I first saw him n the winter, he was sort of pale, curly black hair, and almond shaped black eyes right out of one of those hieroglyphic pictures. But really couldn’t place him at first because he was so — pale.

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  201. @Larry
    EXODUS NEVER HAPPENED.

    This movie Exodus is fiction, because the Jewish exodus never happened. Not only does it violate the laws of common-sense and physics, but also:

    According to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog who teaches in the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, in an article entitled "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho":

    "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. …….Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells." (in an article in the Jewish magazine Haaretz, as republished on):

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm

    For further evidence, see:
    http://www.umsl.edu/~thomaskp/prevoff.htm

    Also seethe article “False Testament” On Harper’s Magazine at:

    http://harpers.org/archive/2002/03/false-testament/

    Copy at:

    http://www.yorku.ca/dcarveth/false_testament

    Since Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened, the entire notion of Jew and Judaism collapses like a house of cards.

    No Jews! Schmuck Larry is free at last, free at last!!!

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  202. The Abraham yarn and the Moses yarn look like one Foundation Myth too many. Stringing them together was a nice try, but not really successful.

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  203. @Father O'Hara
    Its said that Moses married a Hittite gal.("come round the outside,round the outside..") Theyre supposed to be black,n'est-ce pas? that could be some fun casting. How about Rihanna?

    Its said that Moses married a Hittite gal.(“come round the outside,round the outside..”)

    No. I think that you are referencing the Cushite woman that Miriam objected to in Numbers 12: 10-14.

    Theyre supposed to be black,n’est-ce pas? that could be some fun casting. How about Rihanna?

    No, the Hittites were an Indo-European people (or perhaps Indo-Hittite would be the better designation, seeing as how they branched off from I-E at a very early stage) who lived in Anatolia.So, no, they are not Negroid.

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  204. @anon
    Foseti said:

    "A rich 6000 year tradition is no match for the Puritanical pursuit of democracy."

    Puritans have as much influence on US foreign policy as ancient Egyptians. Color revolutions are created and managed by neocons. The allusion to Puritans wasn't random for Foseti. He is a member of the cult of moldbuggery. Blaming Puritans and their descendants for things done by Jews is a central tenet of the cult.

    Just as organized crime got pinned on Sicilians/Italians instead of you know who.

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  205. @Priss Factor
    http://youtu.be/z7MF2phw_Oo?t=1h13m39s

    Check out this scene in TROJAN WOMEN. The movie finally comes to life when Irene Pappas appears. What a beauty. How authentic. She is Greek through and through. Though other actors and actresses are good in this movie too, they seem like they're putting on an act. But when Pappas appears, we are transported to ancient times. She's the real thing. Everything about her says THIS IS GREEK.

    So, I would like to see Hollywood hiring more locals for movies like this. Egypt has a movie industry and actors. Memoirs of a Geisha could have been a half-decent movie if more Japanese had been consulted and hired for roles. LAST SAMURAI is no great masterpiece, but it works because the actors are Japanese. They look it and feel it.
    Costner hired real Indians for DANCES WITH WOLVES, and that was the best thing about that movie(that wasn't otherwise very good).

    But then, of course, Hollywood rides on star power. Christian Bale is a world famous actor whereas we don't know any Egyptian ones. It's too bad that Americans(and people around the world) prefer big name Hollywood stars over local/indigenous ones even in movie taking part in exotic locations. Even non-whites want to see some white guy play Egyptian roles. Even some hindu guy in Mumbai wants to see a big name Hollywood actor in roles in non-western locales.

    I think ALEXANDER and TROY would have done better with Greek actors.

    Agreed. Irene Pappas was a real beauty.

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  206. @Larry
    EXODUS NEVER HAPPENED.

    This movie Exodus is fiction, because the Jewish exodus never happened. Not only does it violate the laws of common-sense and physics, but also:

    According to Prof. Ze'ev Herzog who teaches in the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, in an article entitled "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho":

    "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. …….Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people - and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story - now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people's emergence are radically different from what that story tells." (in an article in the Jewish magazine Haaretz, as republished on):

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm

    For further evidence, see:
    http://www.umsl.edu/~thomaskp/prevoff.htm

    Also seethe article “False Testament” On Harper’s Magazine at:

    http://harpers.org/archive/2002/03/false-testament/

    Copy at:

    http://www.yorku.ca/dcarveth/false_testament

    Since Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened, the entire notion of Jew and Judaism collapses like a house of cards.

    That settles it. We can all stop blogging about Jews now.

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  207. @Priss Factor
    My ideal casting for Moses and others.

    Moses: Mel Brooks or Ben Stein

    Moses' wife: Mona Charen

    Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc.

    -------------

    But more importantly, I wish this was not a Ridley Scott movie.
    KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, though not without merit, was big and dumb, over-inflated with grandiosity.

    The first half of NOAH by Aronofsky is stupid but the film grows in depth and stature in the second half. The Aronofsky that did the second part of NOAH should have made the new Moses movie. Aronofsky has many faults, but he is a director with ideas, something Scott is not. Scott sometimes has a great eye. But when the material is poor, the overall movie is poor.
    To this day, his only truly great film is BLADE RUNNER.

    Didn’t Mel Brooks play Moses in History of the World, Part I?

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  208. In the much praised french film The Intouchables, Omar Sy (César Award for Best Actor) played the part of (real life person) Abdel Sellou.

    You can see them both in the following picture:

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  209. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Unlike most here who are not trained biblical scholars, there tends to be a wide interpretation among scholars as to when events can be taken for historical reliability. Some place it around 1000BC while others place it at 1500BC and 1800BC.

    Judaism and Christianity rest and fall on the supernatural events as described in the Bible. It is nearly impossible to separate them from the theological teachings contained in the Scriptures (particularly the latter, Christianity). Some things are better left to the actual competent scholars, archeologists, linguists, etc. who make their living in these fields to better determine a universal consensus regarding such matters.

    What is relevant is how the film has been marketed. The 06 version contained mainly white actors playing the Egyptians so why is there controversy on this one?

    Unlike most here who are not trained biblical scholars, there tends to be a wide interpretation among scholars as to when events can be taken for historical reliability. Some place it around 1000BC while others place it at 1500BC and 1800BC.

    All those dates are too early.The Israelite historical consciousness did not extend back to 1800 or 1500 BC. That epoch was a pre-historical never-never land to them. 1000 BC was the outer frontier of Israelite history, the earliest epoch of which they had even the slenderest strand of authentic memory.

    Judaism and Christianity rest and fall on the supernatural events as described in the Bible. It is nearly impossible to separate them from the theological teachings contained in the Scriptures (particularly the latter, Christianity). Some things are better left to the actual competent scholars, archeologists, linguists, etc. who make their living in these fields to better determine a universal consensus regarding such matters.

    You’ll never get a “universal consensus” in a field like Biblical archaeology.However, pretty much no one believes in the historicity of figures like Abraham and Moses.

    What is relevant is how the film has been marketed. The 06 version contained mainly white actors playing the Egyptians so why is there controversy on this one?

    2014 isn’t 2006.The PC playing field has moved farther to the Left.

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  210. WhatEvvs [AKA "Bemused"] says:

    @syon,

    The only source of the play it as it gays Messala story is Vidal, a notorious bitch. Wyler is dead. So who knows? That said, it’s not implausible because adding a gay subtext to two old friends is as old as Iago and Othello. I myself never saw the gay subtext.

    About Boyd, all I know is that he was a tortured soul who maxed out his career in Hollywood, made paella Westerns in Europe, and was on the brink of a comeback in a terrific mid-70s gritty British thriller named THE SQUEEZE, but he died of a massive heart attack on the golf course. He was a golf nut.

    A gay golf nut? Anything’s possible. A straight guy turning down Raquel Welch? Anything’s possible. Most straight guys really don’t like to be aggressively propositioned by women, no matter what you read.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The only source of the play it as it gays Messala story is Vidal, a notorious bitch. Wyler is dead. So who knows? That said, it’s not implausible because adding a gay subtext to two old friends is as old as Iago and Othello. I myself never saw the gay subtext.
     
    Yeah, Vidal could be lying, but his story does seem to work with what is on the screen.Boyd's glances at Heston certainly have an amorous quality.

    About Boyd, all I know is that he was a tortured soul who maxed out his career in Hollywood, made paella Westerns in Europe, and was on the brink of a comeback in a terrific mid-70s gritty British thriller named THE SQUEEZE, but he died of a massive heart attack on the golf course. He was a golf nut.

    A gay golf nut? Anything’s possible. A straight guy turning down Raquel Welch? Anything’s possible. Most straight guys really don’t like to be aggressively propositioned by women, no matter what you read.
     
    As I said, this was Welch's story.I have to confess that a straight, unmarried man turning down a hot to trot Raquel Welch in 1966 (http://prettybeautifulthings.com/2013/07/the-icons-raquel-welch/) certainly sounds a ,little strange.

    Boyd's marriages also sound a bit beard-esque:

    Boyd was married twice: for three weeks in 1958 to Italian-born MCA executive Mariella di Sarzana, and subsequently to Elizabeth Mills, a secretary at the British Arts Council, whom he had known since 1955. Mills followed Boyd to the USA in the late fifties and was his personal assistant and secretary for many years before marrying him about 10 months before his death.

     

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  211. Oscar Isaac, probably next year’s breakout star, should have been given a role in this movie as he’s racially ambiguous, enough to pass for an Egyptian or Jew.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Oscar Isaac in the Yul Brynner role seems like a pretty good idea.
    , @Anonymous
    Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan. He looks neither particularly Egyptian nor Jewish.
    , @syonredux
    He's been cast as the Ancient Egyptian mutant Apocalypse in the next X-Men film. The Hispanic POC clause at work. Apparently, it even works for White guys like Oscar Isaac
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  212. @emilio zapata
    Oscar Isaac, probably next year's breakout star, should have been given a role in this movie as he's racially ambiguous, enough to pass for an Egyptian or Jew.

    Oscar Isaac in the Yul Brynner role seems like a pretty good idea.

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  213. @syonredux

    “history only enters into the Bible around the 9th century BC”: I’m surprised it’s as early as that. I assume the OT was assembled/invented largely during and after the Babylonian captivity. Is there decent evidence for any of its accounts of earlier events being reasonably accurate?
     
    Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC). It confirms the existence of some of the personages and events mentioned in the Book of Kings (cf 2 Kings 3:4-8).Hence, it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on.Obviously, there's still a lot of propaganda and mythologizing going on, but the basic outline seems fairly reliable.

    “Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC) … it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on”. That’s interesting. Is it unfair to say that’s a bit late from the point of view of religion, because the big-deal stuff in the Old Testament had already purportedly happened?

    Golly, my memory of all this stuff is weak. So much for Sunday School.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    That’s interesting. Is it unfair to say that’s a bit late from the point of view of religion, because the big-deal stuff in the Old Testament had already purportedly happened?
     
    No, that would be quite fair. The Bible massively backdates things that we know happened much later. For example, Deuteronomy is part of of the Pentateuch, which Moses is supposed to have written.This would place its origin somewhere in, say, the 13th century BC. The overwhelming majority of serious scholars, however, date Deuteronomy to the 7th century BC (circa 620 BC , the reign of King Josiah)
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  214. @Anonymous
    Pretentious bores find boring movies great.

    “Pretentious bores find boring movies great.”

    You’re little people.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I'm a populist. You're a pretentious, logorrheic bore.
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  215. @WhatEvvs
    @syon,

    The only source of the play it as it gays Messala story is Vidal, a notorious bitch. Wyler is dead. So who knows? That said, it's not implausible because adding a gay subtext to two old friends is as old as Iago and Othello. I myself never saw the gay subtext.

    About Boyd, all I know is that he was a tortured soul who maxed out his career in Hollywood, made paella Westerns in Europe, and was on the brink of a comeback in a terrific mid-70s gritty British thriller named THE SQUEEZE, but he died of a massive heart attack on the golf course. He was a golf nut.

    A gay golf nut? Anything's possible. A straight guy turning down Raquel Welch? Anything's possible. Most straight guys really don't like to be aggressively propositioned by women, no matter what you read.

    The only source of the play it as it gays Messala story is Vidal, a notorious bitch. Wyler is dead. So who knows? That said, it’s not implausible because adding a gay subtext to two old friends is as old as Iago and Othello. I myself never saw the gay subtext.

    Yeah, Vidal could be lying, but his story does seem to work with what is on the screen.Boyd’s glances at Heston certainly have an amorous quality.

    About Boyd, all I know is that he was a tortured soul who maxed out his career in Hollywood, made paella Westerns in Europe, and was on the brink of a comeback in a terrific mid-70s gritty British thriller named THE SQUEEZE, but he died of a massive heart attack on the golf course. He was a golf nut.

    A gay golf nut? Anything’s possible. A straight guy turning down Raquel Welch? Anything’s possible. Most straight guys really don’t like to be aggressively propositioned by women, no matter what you read.

    As I said, this was Welch’s story.I have to confess that a straight, unmarried man turning down a hot to trot Raquel Welch in 1966 (http://prettybeautifulthings.com/2013/07/the-icons-raquel-welch/) certainly sounds a ,little strange.

    Boyd’s marriages also sound a bit beard-esque:

    Boyd was married twice: for three weeks in 1958 to Italian-born MCA executive Mariella di Sarzana, and subsequently to Elizabeth Mills, a secretary at the British Arts Council, whom he had known since 1955. Mills followed Boyd to the USA in the late fifties and was his personal assistant and secretary for many years before marrying him about 10 months before his death.

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    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    Yes, they do. Sound beardy.

    I am waiting for the Snowden of Hollywood to turn up. But no one who ever makes it big in Hollywood would ever go into exile.
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  216. @Anonymous
    I don't think Bale is a good choice for Moses. He doesn't look paternal enough to play Moses.

    George Clooney, Russell Crowe, Mel Gibson, Eric Bana, etc. would have been better choices.

    The Australian actor, Edgerton, who plays Rameses doesn't look very convincing either. He looks too Anglo with a bad makeup job. There are plenty of more Mediterranean or exotic looking Caucasian actors, so I don't know why they casted him. It's not like he's even very famous. It looks like his performance will quite literally pale in comparison to Brynner's great performance as Rameses.

    In the 1956 version of The Ten Commandments Nefretiri (played by Anne Baxter) has been betrothed to Rameses (Yul Brynner) and is taken to meet him. The Pharaoh, buff underneath a headdress and some gold bling, tells her:

    “You will be my wife. You will come to me whenever I call you, and I will enjoy that very much. Whether you enjoy it or not is your own affair… but I think you will.”

    Definitely a few cuts aboveFifty Shades ofGrey.

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  217. I say let’s split the difference: cast Mexicans in all the Egyptian roles.

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  218. @dearieme
    "Mesha Stele (circa 840 BC) ... it seems that we can trust the Bible to be broadly accurate (names of reigning monarchs, big battles, etc) from that point on". That's interesting. Is it unfair to say that's a bit late from the point of view of religion, because the big-deal stuff in the Old Testament had already purportedly happened?

    Golly, my memory of all this stuff is weak. So much for Sunday School.

    That’s interesting. Is it unfair to say that’s a bit late from the point of view of religion, because the big-deal stuff in the Old Testament had already purportedly happened?

    No, that would be quite fair. The Bible massively backdates things that we know happened much later. For example, Deuteronomy is part of of the Pentateuch, which Moses is supposed to have written.This would place its origin somewhere in, say, the 13th century BC. The overwhelming majority of serious scholars, however, date Deuteronomy to the 7th century BC (circa 620 BC , the reign of King Josiah)

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  219. @Priss Factor
    "Pretentious bores find boring movies great."

    You're little people.

    I’m a populist. You’re a pretentious, logorrheic bore.

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  220. The U.S. Government likes to pretend that all North Africans and Middle-Eastern people are as “white” as your average German or Italian. This is honorary whiteness as a form of respect.

    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/09/04/detroit-immigrant-wants-to-be-re-classified-as-black/

    That’s also why, for most of the 20th century, Hispanics were officially classified as “white” regardless of individual differences in color or ancestry:

    http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/Books/bid2344.htm

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  221. It is understandable that blacks in particular feel left out from most of the world’s great technological advances and civilizations. Therefore they tend to employ circular reasoning to help assuage their lack of self-esteem among other races. It goes something like this: “Everyone” knows that the African continent has blacks (Negroid). Egypt is in North Africa. Therefore “obviously” the ancient Egyptians were black, just as geometry was pioneered by Euclid (who “obviously” was black) and the warrior general Hannibal was also “obviously” black.

    Don’t forget the eminent Leonard Jeffries, professor of black studies at CCNY. He actually still has a job at CCNY despite openly claiming that whites are evil and cruel “ice people”, while blacks have the heaviest melanin amounts that provide soul, balance, spirit (all good qualities).

    Amongst his many smart moves is claiming that half the Roman Senate was once black since almost 50% of the delegates at one point in the late Imperial time were from North Africa colonies.

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    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    Yeah, this idea that Africa = Negro is widespread. Hannibal was "black." I think the comedian Hannibal Burress owes his name to this fad.
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  222. @emilio zapata
    Oscar Isaac, probably next year's breakout star, should have been given a role in this movie as he's racially ambiguous, enough to pass for an Egyptian or Jew.

    Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan. He looks neither particularly Egyptian nor Jewish.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan.
     
    His father was a Cuban medical doctor, and his maternal grandfather was French
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  223. @emilio zapata
    Oscar Isaac, probably next year's breakout star, should have been given a role in this movie as he's racially ambiguous, enough to pass for an Egyptian or Jew.

    He’s been cast as the Ancient Egyptian mutant Apocalypse in the next X-Men film. The Hispanic POC clause at work. Apparently, it even works for White guys like Oscar Isaac

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  224. @Anonymous
    Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan. He looks neither particularly Egyptian nor Jewish.

    Oscar Isaac is Guatemalan.

    His father was a Cuban medical doctor, and his maternal grandfather was French

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  225. @syonredux

    The only source of the play it as it gays Messala story is Vidal, a notorious bitch. Wyler is dead. So who knows? That said, it’s not implausible because adding a gay subtext to two old friends is as old as Iago and Othello. I myself never saw the gay subtext.
     
    Yeah, Vidal could be lying, but his story does seem to work with what is on the screen.Boyd's glances at Heston certainly have an amorous quality.

    About Boyd, all I know is that he was a tortured soul who maxed out his career in Hollywood, made paella Westerns in Europe, and was on the brink of a comeback in a terrific mid-70s gritty British thriller named THE SQUEEZE, but he died of a massive heart attack on the golf course. He was a golf nut.

    A gay golf nut? Anything’s possible. A straight guy turning down Raquel Welch? Anything’s possible. Most straight guys really don’t like to be aggressively propositioned by women, no matter what you read.
     
    As I said, this was Welch's story.I have to confess that a straight, unmarried man turning down a hot to trot Raquel Welch in 1966 (http://prettybeautifulthings.com/2013/07/the-icons-raquel-welch/) certainly sounds a ,little strange.

    Boyd's marriages also sound a bit beard-esque:

    Boyd was married twice: for three weeks in 1958 to Italian-born MCA executive Mariella di Sarzana, and subsequently to Elizabeth Mills, a secretary at the British Arts Council, whom he had known since 1955. Mills followed Boyd to the USA in the late fifties and was his personal assistant and secretary for many years before marrying him about 10 months before his death.

     

    Yes, they do. Sound beardy.

    I am waiting for the Snowden of Hollywood to turn up. But no one who ever makes it big in Hollywood would ever go into exile.

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  226. @Camlost

    It is understandable that blacks in particular feel left out from most of the world’s great technological advances and civilizations. Therefore they tend to employ circular reasoning to help assuage their lack of self-esteem among other races. It goes something like this: “Everyone” knows that the African continent has blacks (Negroid). Egypt is in North Africa. Therefore “obviously” the ancient Egyptians were black, just as geometry was pioneered by Euclid (who “obviously” was black) and the warrior general Hannibal was also “obviously” black.
     
    Don't forget the eminent Leonard Jeffries, professor of black studies at CCNY. He actually still has a job at CCNY despite openly claiming that whites are evil and cruel "ice people", while blacks have the heaviest melanin amounts that provide soul, balance, spirit (all good qualities).

    Amongst his many smart moves is claiming that half the Roman Senate was once black since almost 50% of the delegates at one point in the late Imperial time were from North Africa colonies.

    Yeah, this idea that Africa = Negro is widespread. Hannibal was “black.” I think the comedian Hannibal Burress owes his name to this fad.

    Read More
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  227. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Oscar Isaac looks like a Mediterranean Caucasian and thus can play Egyptians or Jews.

    You don’t have to look particularly Egyptian or Jewish to play Egyptians or Jews. You can just be in the range of Egyptian or Jewish looks.

    Red hair and freckles look “particularly Irish”, for example, but you don’t need red hair and freckles to plausibly play an Irishman.

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  228. @Jefferson
    "Kirk Douglas is all Jewish, but his son Michael is not.

    Did anyone complain when Kirk played Spartacus?"

    I hope that there were complaints about him playing a Greek, because with his reddish blond hair Kirk Douglas looked too White to play a Greek. Most Greeks look swarthy Woggish like Andrea Tantaros from Fox News Channel.

    Did anyone complain when the rock played Hercules? Here is a half-black/half-Samoan guy playing a Greek.

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  229. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Egypt was a province of the Roman Empire for several centuries. But Roman writers don’t describe them as black. None of the peoples of Roman North Africa were regarded as “black” by the ancient Romans. Hannibal, of Phoenician background was certainly not black. None of the Roman chroniclers ever wrote about ruling over a black populace.

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  230. What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.

    “Israeli Jew” is a poor descriptor of ethnicity. The Israeli Jewish population includes pure Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim, mixes of these groups, and smaller numbers of Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews (Bnei Menashe). Pure Ashkenazim account for less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.

    It’s also interesting how Jews and clueless heathens (“gentiles”) describe Jewry (especially Israeli Jewry) as diverse, vibrant, and multicultural, but white America (English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, French, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Belgian, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, Austrian, Czech, Greek, Polish, Russian, etc., etc., etc., apologies to those I left out) as a stale white bread inbred monolith desperately in need of some vibrant miscegenation.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.
     
    Christians venerate the OT; hence, OT films can be marketed to both Christians and Jews, but NT films only appeal to Christians
    , @Wilkey
    "What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood."

    Nah. The OT is filled with big, epic stories that make for great movies. The OT's authors could do this because 1) they were writing about an alleged past which few people had the authority to dispute; and 2) they pillaged ancient mythology for many of their tales, such as Noah and the Flood. Indeed, the fact that these myths existed and were widespread lent credence to the claims they actually happened.

    The New Testament is more personal and takes place during the life of Christ and the apostles. Not quite as much there to make movies out of. And of course Christians have plenty of money and plenty of access to film equipment. If they, like Mel Gibson, want to make movies based on the The New Testament there's no lack of options.

    I live in Utah and there are at least 2-3 privately produced Mormon-themed movies of respectable quality (production values if not script) coming out every year. They appear to have no trouble getting screenings in the major theater chains. One that came out about a decade ago starred Anne Hathaway, just before she made it big.

    , @syonredux

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.
     
    Actually, the more that I think about it, I'm not sure that the OT is more prominent than the NT:

    King of Kings (1961)

    King of Kings (1927)

    The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965)

    Ben-Hur (1907)

    Ben-Hur (1925)

    Ben-Hur (1959)

    Ben-Hur (2003)

    Ben-Hur (2010)

    A.D. (1985)

    Jesus of Nazareth (1977)

    The Robe (1953)

    Salome (1953)

    The Nativity (1978)

    The Gospel According to St Matthew (1964)

    Jesus Christ, Superstar (1973)

    Peter and Paul (1981)

    Jesus (1999)

    Mary, Mother of Jesus (1999, featuring Christian Bale as Jesus)

    The Passion of the Christ (2004)

    The Last Temptation of Christ (1988)

    etc, etc
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  231. @Svigor
    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.

    “Israeli Jew” is a poor descriptor of ethnicity. The Israeli Jewish population includes pure Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim, mixes of these groups, and smaller numbers of Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews (Bnei Menashe). Pure Ashkenazim account for less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.
     
    It's also interesting how Jews and clueless heathens ("gentiles") describe Jewry (especially Israeli Jewry) as diverse, vibrant, and multicultural, but white America (English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, French, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Belgian, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, Austrian, Czech, Greek, Polish, Russian, etc., etc., etc., apologies to those I left out) as a stale white bread inbred monolith desperately in need of some vibrant miscegenation.

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.

    Christians venerate the OT; hence, OT films can be marketed to both Christians and Jews, but NT films only appeal to Christians

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    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    What is the ratio of Jews to Christians in the US?
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  232. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Native American Astronaut looks pretty white:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Herrington

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  233. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @syonredux

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.
     
    Christians venerate the OT; hence, OT films can be marketed to both Christians and Jews, but NT films only appeal to Christians

    What is the ratio of Jews to Christians in the US?

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    What is the ratio of Jews to Christians in the US?
     
    Massively in favor of Christians.
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  234. @The most deplorable one
    What is the ratio of Jews to Christians in the US?

    What is the ratio of Jews to Christians in the US?

    Massively in favor of Christians.

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  235. @Svigor
    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.

    “Israeli Jew” is a poor descriptor of ethnicity. The Israeli Jewish population includes pure Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim, mixes of these groups, and smaller numbers of Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews (Bnei Menashe). Pure Ashkenazim account for less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.
     
    It's also interesting how Jews and clueless heathens ("gentiles") describe Jewry (especially Israeli Jewry) as diverse, vibrant, and multicultural, but white America (English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, French, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Belgian, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, Austrian, Czech, Greek, Polish, Russian, etc., etc., etc., apologies to those I left out) as a stale white bread inbred monolith desperately in need of some vibrant miscegenation.

    “What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.”

    Nah. The OT is filled with big, epic stories that make for great movies. The OT’s authors could do this because 1) they were writing about an alleged past which few people had the authority to dispute; and 2) they pillaged ancient mythology for many of their tales, such as Noah and the Flood. Indeed, the fact that these myths existed and were widespread lent credence to the claims they actually happened.

    The New Testament is more personal and takes place during the life of Christ and the apostles. Not quite as much there to make movies out of. And of course Christians have plenty of money and plenty of access to film equipment. If they, like Mel Gibson, want to make movies based on the The New Testament there’s no lack of options.

    I live in Utah and there are at least 2-3 privately produced Mormon-themed movies of respectable quality (production values if not script) coming out every year. They appear to have no trouble getting screenings in the major theater chains. One that came out about a decade ago starred Anne Hathaway, just before she made it big.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I saw that one. It was about a Mormon missionary in the South Pacific in the 1950s. It was pretty decent.
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  236. @Wilkey
    "What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood."

    Nah. The OT is filled with big, epic stories that make for great movies. The OT's authors could do this because 1) they were writing about an alleged past which few people had the authority to dispute; and 2) they pillaged ancient mythology for many of their tales, such as Noah and the Flood. Indeed, the fact that these myths existed and were widespread lent credence to the claims they actually happened.

    The New Testament is more personal and takes place during the life of Christ and the apostles. Not quite as much there to make movies out of. And of course Christians have plenty of money and plenty of access to film equipment. If they, like Mel Gibson, want to make movies based on the The New Testament there's no lack of options.

    I live in Utah and there are at least 2-3 privately produced Mormon-themed movies of respectable quality (production values if not script) coming out every year. They appear to have no trouble getting screenings in the major theater chains. One that came out about a decade ago starred Anne Hathaway, just before she made it big.

    I saw that one. It was about a Mormon missionary in the South Pacific in the 1950s. It was pretty decent.

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  237. @Svigor
    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.

    “Israeli Jew” is a poor descriptor of ethnicity. The Israeli Jewish population includes pure Ashkenazim, Sephardim and Mizrahim, mixes of these groups, and smaller numbers of Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews (Bnei Menashe). Pure Ashkenazim account for less than half of the Israeli Jewish population.
     
    It's also interesting how Jews and clueless heathens ("gentiles") describe Jewry (especially Israeli Jewry) as diverse, vibrant, and multicultural, but white America (English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, French, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Danish, Belgian, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, Austrian, Czech, Greek, Polish, Russian, etc., etc., etc., apologies to those I left out) as a stale white bread inbred monolith desperately in need of some vibrant miscegenation.

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.

    Actually, the more that I think about it, I’m not sure that the OT is more prominent than the NT:

    King of Kings (1961)

    King of Kings (1927)

    The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965)

    Ben-Hur (1907)

    Ben-Hur (1925)

    Ben-Hur (1959)

    Ben-Hur (2003)

    Ben-Hur (2010)

    A.D. (1985)

    Jesus of Nazareth (1977)

    The Robe (1953)

    Salome (1953)

    The Nativity (1978)

    The Gospel According to St Matthew (1964)

    Jesus Christ, Superstar (1973)

    Peter and Paul (1981)

    Jesus (1999)

    Mary, Mother of Jesus (1999, featuring Christian Bale as Jesus)

    The Passion of the Christ (2004)

    The Last Temptation of Christ (1988)

    etc, etc

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    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    The Svigor rule = Godwin's Law for ISteve. (I think you are sufficiently intelligent to figure this out.)

    They are remaking Ben Hur. I sort of look forward to it, but damn, if they CGI that chariot race, why, I'm going to protest on ISteve. I'll be that mad!

    Seriously, if you are interested in a blow by blow description of how they did that chariot race, read Chuck Heston's autobiography. Yakima Canutt was the greatest stunt director ever. It's amazing how he was allowed to flourish, being under the control of Jews and all.
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  238. Priss Factor [AKA "terrapin gape"] says:

    “What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.”

    Old Testament covers a longer time span, so there’s more material.
    Also, people like conflict, esp the physical.
    New Testament is about pacifist men getting whupped without resisting.

    But ACTS can make a great movie. Paul moved around a lot and did so much.
    There was a whole bunch of Jesus movies. A really good one about Paul could be made. Like a travelogue.

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  239. “Steve Sailer says:

    @backspace

    Oscar Isaac in the Yul Brynner role seems like a pretty good idea.”

    How about Arnold Vosloo – the Mummy from “The Mummy”? He looks like he could be Pharoh.

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  240. “Svigor says:

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.”

    I think you’re reaching here. The New Testament is full of theology. The Old Testament is full of stories – great heroic stories. It’s just more kinemagenic.

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  241. “CJ says:

    In the 1956 version of The Ten Commandments Nefretiri (played by Anne Baxter) has been betrothed to Rames…”

    On the subject of people who look like other people – Ellen Barkin bore a remarkable resemblance to Anne Baxter.

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  242. Last year there was a big stink about Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone: Not Black Enough.

    Apparently she wore a prosthetic nose and used black face, so that only got TNC and his gang into more of a lather.

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  243. Bettega [AKA "Derfel"] says:

    Ancient Egyptians were likely Hamitic. Black skinned, but caucasoid, at least the masses, the elite was probably Semitic.

    Which means, American negroids, descended from peoples of West Africa are silly in laying claims to their legacy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic#Anti-Hamitism

    “In my opinion [...] it is time to arrest a quarter of a century of excessive anti-Hamitism in African studies [...] By [Hamitic], of course, was meant Caucasoid, but not just any Caucasoid. Hamitic as a catchall category always seems to presuppose biological resemblance to the ancient Egyptians, modern Berbers, or the better known Ethiopid types such as Beja, highland Abyssinians, Galla, or Somali. Moreover, Hamites had a sort of family resemblance to Semites, a group not only Asian in origin, but also indubitably Caucasoid (“White”). Oddly enough, it was Americans of Semitic ancestry, combating the virulent anti-Semitism of Germany under Nazism as a matter of ethnic survival and racism in anthropology, psychology, and the social sciences as a matter of principle – their attacks were not unrelated to general Euro-American social prejudice against Jews as well – who initially began anti-Hamitism in recent Africanist scholarship [...] But anti-racism has not all been beneficial. A generation grew up drawing strange inferences from it. Since racism is “bad” politically and scientifically, and pro-Hamitic historical theories usually have been associated with racism, Hamites themselves are “bad” or unsavory or one should oppose any hypothesis which credits them with an important role in anything. Such an inference is a non sequitur and one which Greenberg never intended or supported. Is this prejudice immediately ascertainable; can its presence be easily shown, particularly among younger scholars? I believe this point is true but hard to test, particularly because I think it lies among the deep-seated attitudes an Africanist acquires in general training [...] Anti-racism, which has led to silly anti-Hamitism, finally led to falsehood when Ehret set out to restrict the role of the Cushites in eastern African history because they were a kind of Hamite.”

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  244. @Priss Factor
    http://youtu.be/z7MF2phw_Oo?t=1h13m39s

    Check out this scene in TROJAN WOMEN. The movie finally comes to life when Irene Pappas appears. What a beauty. How authentic. She is Greek through and through. Though other actors and actresses are good in this movie too, they seem like they're putting on an act. But when Pappas appears, we are transported to ancient times. She's the real thing. Everything about her says THIS IS GREEK.

    So, I would like to see Hollywood hiring more locals for movies like this. Egypt has a movie industry and actors. Memoirs of a Geisha could have been a half-decent movie if more Japanese had been consulted and hired for roles. LAST SAMURAI is no great masterpiece, but it works because the actors are Japanese. They look it and feel it.
    Costner hired real Indians for DANCES WITH WOLVES, and that was the best thing about that movie(that wasn't otherwise very good).

    But then, of course, Hollywood rides on star power. Christian Bale is a world famous actor whereas we don't know any Egyptian ones. It's too bad that Americans(and people around the world) prefer big name Hollywood stars over local/indigenous ones even in movie taking part in exotic locations. Even non-whites want to see some white guy play Egyptian roles. Even some hindu guy in Mumbai wants to see a big name Hollywood actor in roles in non-western locales.

    I think ALEXANDER and TROY would have done better with Greek actors.

    I think former Egyptian Bridge international Omar Sharif was too old for the role but then again I am a little bit ageist.

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  245. @bigboy
    Those are Coptic Orthodox clergy from Ethiopia not ethnic Copts from Egypt. Egyptian Christians don't resemble Ethiopians generally

    The links between Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Copic Orthodox Church go back generations. The head of the Ethiopian church was appointed by head of the Coptic church.

    “Those are Coptic Orthodox clergy from Ethiopia not ethnic Copts from Egypt”

    I may have an 85 IQ, but I can make out the caption “Egyptian Coptic Men” under the photo.

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  246. Coptic Man and Woman from 18th century German artist

    https://copticliterature.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/how-they-saw-the-copts-the-meyers-konversations-lexikon-or-meyers-lexikon/

    “Coptic festival in upper Egypt:”

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  247. WhatEvvs [AKA "Bemused"] says:
    @syonredux

    What I find most interesting is how the Old Testament is so much more prevalent in film history than the New Testament is, and how nobody acknowledges that this is obviously down to Jewish control of Hollywood.
     
    Actually, the more that I think about it, I'm not sure that the OT is more prominent than the NT:

    King of Kings (1961)

    King of Kings (1927)

    The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965)

    Ben-Hur (1907)

    Ben-Hur (1925)

    Ben-Hur (1959)

    Ben-Hur (2003)

    Ben-Hur (2010)

    A.D. (1985)

    Jesus of Nazareth (1977)

    The Robe (1953)

    Salome (1953)

    The Nativity (1978)

    The Gospel According to St Matthew (1964)

    Jesus Christ, Superstar (1973)

    Peter and Paul (1981)

    Jesus (1999)

    Mary, Mother of Jesus (1999, featuring Christian Bale as Jesus)

    The Passion of the Christ (2004)

    The Last Temptation of Christ (1988)

    etc, etc

    The Svigor rule = Godwin’s Law for ISteve. (I think you are sufficiently intelligent to figure this out.)

    They are remaking Ben Hur. I sort of look forward to it, but damn, if they CGI that chariot race, why, I’m going to protest on ISteve. I’ll be that mad!

    Seriously, if you are interested in a blow by blow description of how they did that chariot race, read Chuck Heston’s autobiography. Yakima Canutt was the greatest stunt director ever. It’s amazing how he was allowed to flourish, being under the control of Jews and all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    They are remaking Ben Hur. I sort of look forward to it, but damn, if they CGI that chariot race, why, I’m going to protest on ISteve. I’ll be that mad!
     
    As Martin Scorsese notes, the chariot race in Ben-Hur is one of the greatest action sequences in film.Heck, look how that hack George Lucas ripped it off for both The Phantom Menace and for Revenge of the Sith.

    Film critic Kevin Brownlow has called the chariot race sequence as creative and influential a piece of cinema as the famous Odessa Steps sequence in Sergei Eisenstein's The Battleship Potemkin, which introduced modern concepts of film editing and montage to cinema.[115]

    The chariot race in Ben-Hur was directed by Andrew Marton and Yakima Canutt,[116] filmmakers who often acted as second unit directors on other people's films. Each man had an assistant director, who shot additional footage.[117] Among these were Sergio Leone,[118] who was senior assistant director in the second unit and responsible for retakes.[119] William Wyler shot the "pageantry" sequence that occurs before the race, scenes of the jubilant crowd, and the victory scenes after the race concludes.[120] The "pageantry" sequence before the race begins is a shot-by-shot remake of the same sequence from the 1925 silent film version.[115] Wyler added the parade around the track because he knew that the chariot race would be primarily composed of close-up and medium shots. To impress the audience with the grandeur of the arena, Wyler added the parade in formation (even though it was not historically accurate).[50]
     
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  248. “[Egyptians] treated blacks as slaves”

    Actually modern historical consensus is that the pyramids were built by well-paid skilled laborers, and that slaves were not involved. Of course the whole notion of Exodus is complete historical bunk, so I don’t know why people are arguing over the color of people in a fictional movie. Hebrews as a linguistic-cultural group didn’t exist until at least a millennium after the supposed date when Moses lived. Exodus is only slightly less make-believe than Genesis.

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  249. @WhatEvvs
    The Svigor rule = Godwin's Law for ISteve. (I think you are sufficiently intelligent to figure this out.)

    They are remaking Ben Hur. I sort of look forward to it, but damn, if they CGI that chariot race, why, I'm going to protest on ISteve. I'll be that mad!

    Seriously, if you are interested in a blow by blow description of how they did that chariot race, read Chuck Heston's autobiography. Yakima Canutt was the greatest stunt director ever. It's amazing how he was allowed to flourish, being under the control of Jews and all.

    They are remaking Ben Hur. I sort of look forward to it, but damn, if they CGI that chariot race, why, I’m going to protest on ISteve. I’ll be that mad!

    As Martin Scorsese notes, the chariot race in Ben-Hur is one of the greatest action sequences in film.Heck, look how that hack George Lucas ripped it off for both The Phantom Menace and for Revenge of the Sith.

    Film critic Kevin Brownlow has called the chariot race sequence as creative and influential a piece of cinema as the famous Odessa Steps sequence in Sergei Eisenstein’s The Battleship Potemkin, which introduced modern concepts of film editing and montage to cinema.[115]

    The chariot race in Ben-Hur was directed by Andrew Marton and Yakima Canutt,[116] filmmakers who often acted as second unit directors on other people’s films. Each man had an assistant director, who shot additional footage.[117] Among these were Sergio Leone,[118] who was senior assistant director in the second unit and responsible for retakes.[119] William Wyler shot the “pageantry” sequence that occurs before the race, scenes of the jubilant crowd, and the victory scenes after the race concludes.[120] The “pageantry” sequence before the race begins is a shot-by-shot remake of the same sequence from the 1925 silent film version.[115] Wyler added the parade around the track because he knew that the chariot race would be primarily composed of close-up and medium shots. To impress the audience with the grandeur of the arena, Wyler added the parade in formation (even though it was not historically accurate).[50]

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  250. “Some white actors looked exotic/mixed and could take on all sorts of ethnic/racial roles.

    Anthony Quinn could play Greek, Mexican, Eskimo, French, etc.”

    Anthony Quinn was a Mestizo, so not a good example of an exotic looking White actor.

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  251. Most people apparently do not know “Good Earth”, the 1937 film based in China.

    Paul Muni (Friedrich Mesilem Meier Weisenfreund), an Austrian Jew who was born in what is now Ukraine and spoke Yiddish as his first language, played a Chinese peasant; he was the Tom Hanks of the day.

    Other members of the casts were also mostly German-speaking Jews, although there were a few Chinese thrown in for token roles.

    Luisa Rainer, a German Jew who played the Muni character’s wife (of course Chinese), managed to snag the Oscar for best actress, something the Academy would rather forget now.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Most people apparently do not know “Good Earth”, the 1937 film based in China.

    Paul Muni (Friedrich Mesilem Meier Weisenfreund), an Austrian Jew who was born in what is now Ukraine and spoke Yiddish as his first language, played a Chinese peasant; he was the Tom Hanks of the day.

    Other members of the casts were also mostly German-speaking Jews, although there were a few Chinese thrown in for token roles.

    Luisa Rainer, a German Jew who played the Muni character’s wife (of course Chinese), managed to snag the Oscar for best actress, something the Academy would rather forget now.
     
    Then there was Dragon Seed (1944), another film with White actors playing Chinese characters. Katherine Hepburn plays Jade (her yellowface makeup is a sight to see). Walter Huston plays Ling Tan, and Aline McMahon plays Ling Tan's wife (she got an Oscar nomination).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ac39xjdGx8
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  252. @colm
    Most people apparently do not know "Good Earth", the 1937 film based in China.

    Paul Muni (Friedrich Mesilem Meier Weisenfreund), an Austrian Jew who was born in what is now Ukraine and spoke Yiddish as his first language, played a Chinese peasant; he was the Tom Hanks of the day.

    Other members of the casts were also mostly German-speaking Jews, although there were a few Chinese thrown in for token roles.

    Luisa Rainer, a German Jew who played the Muni character's wife (of course Chinese), managed to snag the Oscar for best actress, something the Academy would rather forget now.

    Most people apparently do not know “Good Earth”, the 1937 film based in China.

    Paul Muni (Friedrich Mesilem Meier Weisenfreund), an Austrian Jew who was born in what is now Ukraine and spoke Yiddish as his first language, played a Chinese peasant; he was the Tom Hanks of the day.

    Other members of the casts were also mostly German-speaking Jews, although there were a few Chinese thrown in for token roles.

    Luisa Rainer, a German Jew who played the Muni character’s wife (of course Chinese), managed to snag the Oscar for best actress, something the Academy would rather forget now.

    Then there was Dragon Seed (1944), another film with White actors playing Chinese characters. Katherine Hepburn plays Jade (her yellowface makeup is a sight to see). Walter Huston plays Ling Tan, and Aline McMahon plays Ling Tan’s wife (she got an Oscar nomination).

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  253. @Priss Factor
    My ideal casting for Moses and others.

    Moses: Mel Brooks or Ben Stein

    Moses' wife: Mona Charen

    Bad Jews who make the Golden Calf and have an orgy: Howard Stern, Ron Jeremy, Sarah Silverman, Bill Maher, etc.

    -------------

    But more importantly, I wish this was not a Ridley Scott movie.
    KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, though not without merit, was big and dumb, over-inflated with grandiosity.

    The first half of NOAH by Aronofsky is stupid but the film grows in depth and stature in the second half. The Aronofsky that did the second part of NOAH should have made the new Moses movie. Aronofsky has many faults, but he is a director with ideas, something Scott is not. Scott sometimes has a great eye. But when the material is poor, the overall movie is poor.
    To this day, his only truly great film is BLADE RUNNER.

    As a war-movie buff, I’d nominate “Black Hawk Down” — a personal favorite.

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  254. Christians venerate the OT; hence, OT films can be marketed to both Christians and Jews, but NT films only appeal to Christians

    True. There’s also the semi-plausible “blame der goyim” route; they don’t make NT movies because they don’t want to offend Christians. There’s also Wilkey’s (and others’) play (the more classically mythological nature of the OT), which is plausible.

    The New Testament is more personal and takes place during the life of Christ and the apostles. Not quite as much there to make movies out of. And of course Christians have plenty of money and plenty of access to film equipment. If they, like Mel Gibson, want to make movies based on the The New Testament there’s no lack of options.

    Which is to say, if there were more Christians in control of Hollywood, there might be more Christian-friendly content?

    It’s not accurate to say that Jews want to weaken and prostrate non-Jewish countries without qualification.

    I don’t see this much pedantic rigor concerning other groups. It’s not expected on other subjects. So, to do it on this subject is unprincipled.

    I’m not sure Dworkin realized that the sort of Jewish male to survive the Holocaust is exactly the type who would have been militaristic by nature. He’d struggle to survive. The men who died were the nice, passive bookish types.

    Maybe. Or maybe the smarter & wealthier Jews survived (fleeing, hiding, bribing, etc.), while the poorer & dumber Jews died. Heck, maybe the cowards lived and the courageous died. I wouldn’t be surprised if both sentences were true of Germans in WWII (the bravest Germans, for example, are probably buried all over Russia. Or at least, the ones most likely to seek out combat).

    watch what they do not what they say

    “ANTI-SEMITE!!!”

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  255. We already know that African-Americans are weird on the subject of ancient and modern northern African physical anthropology, much like European-Americans, and northern Europeans to a smaller extent, are weird on the subject of ancient and modern southern European physical anthropology.

    In general, ancient Egyptians cluster with western Eurasians (craniofacially etc. obviously not as good as DNA but better than nothing, which is basically what the sub-Saharan side has) and modern Egyptians cluster with western Eurasians and other north Africans and that’s the end of it. Americans can sort out the ‘social race’ stuff among themselves.

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  256. Priss Factor [AKA "dna turtles"] says:

    Maybe some white libs look with favor the black fixation on Egypt in the hope that it will have a Renaissance effect on them. Better to have blacks seek inspiration from civilized Egyptians than from savage tribal blacks of Sub-Saharan Africa.

    Consider Europe. Christianity took over and tried to stamp out paganism and there was a long conservative period of stasis. But in the South, Renaissance came into bloom and the glories of ancient Greece and Rome were recovered and inspired Europe to make great advancement. And the effect of Renaissance flowed northward as well. Renaissance was all about seeking inspiration in science, math, philosophy, and art from the great pagan civilizations that had been lost since the Fall of Rome and breakup between East and West.
    It was pro-civilization and anti-barbarism.

    But what happened in the 19th century? With increased interest in archaeology and with the rise of German nationalism and romanticism, there was the cult of nature and barbarism. Germans became interested in barbarian mythologies of Germanic warriors. Wagner set it to music. This neo-barbarism or barbarissance came to define the soul of Germany. Nietzsche toyed with it. Hitler was stirred by it.
    If Renaissance reconnected man with the life of the mind, Barbarissance reconnected man with primal instinct. Of course, Hitler admired Greece and Rome and all that, but an element of neo-barbarism was key to the appeal of Nazism. And the world was set on fire.

    Since the Civil Rights era, a kind of barbarissance took over the black community. Much of black culture is now tribal, savage, thuggish, warrior-like, and etc. Rappers act like tribal warriors with guns instead of spears. Something like Harlem Renaissance is lost to the black community. Black music is mostly filth and black athletes don’t even try to be credit to their race.

    Given this reality, maybe white folks prefer that blacks look to Egypt to inspiration than to savage dark Africa. And Obama, as a mulatto, has certain Ancient-Egyptian-like features, and that’s been the appeal to white libs. He’s more pharaohic than tribal-chieftainic.

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  257. Consider Europe. Christianity took over and tried to stamp out paganism and there was a long conservative period of stasis. But in the South, Renaissance came into bloom and the glories of ancient Greece and Rome were recovered and inspired Europe to make great advancement. And the effect of Renaissance flowed northward as well. Renaissance was all about seeking inspiration in science, math, philosophy, and art from the great pagan civilizations that had been lost since the Fall of Rome and breakup between East and West. It was pro-civilization and anti-barbarism.

    This is a old-fashioned view of the middle ages. If you’re looking for static civilization, the Roman Empire is a better example. Europe took a few beatings between 400 and 1400 AD, but it always got back on its feet. Someone remarked that there were so many “renaissances” during this supposedly backward period (the Carolingian renaissance, the Ottonian renaissance, the 12th century renaissance), you wonder if they had time for anything else. But the term “renaissance” reflects our prejudice that anything good in the middle ages must be an exception to the rule. Once the second, more disasterous, Dark Age of the 9th and 10th centuries was over, however, European civilization achieved striking economic and cultural advances. Nothing in Roman or Renaissance architecture shows the originality of a Gothic cathedral, and the university was a medieval, not a Renaissance invention. The Renaissance succeeded the middle ages by building on them. There was a change of emphasis, and a ressourcement based on new Latinist scholarship and an influx of scholarly refugees from Byzantium, but there was no break.

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  258. Bee says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Downey is, what, 1/4th Jewish?

    There have been a lot of part-Jewish leading men going back at least to Paul Newman, as Adam Sandler has noted.

    As it turns out, Downey is actually 3/8ths Jewish.

    Why “part Jewish” leading men? The 1950s were the golden age of Jewish leading men, like Kirk Douglas, Tony Curtis, Cornel Wilde, John Garfield, Jean-Pierre Aumont, Gene Barry, John Garfiled, Laurence Harvey, Jeff Chandler, and others, all of whom are/were fully Jewish.

    BTW, if it’s a requirement that an actor be fully Jewish, then it should be a requirement for other ethnic groups, too (i.e. only full-blooded Italians play Italians, which would put a lot of people out of work, and you called Paul Giamatti Italian even though he’s 1/4).

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