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Everything About SAT Math Racial Gaps Has Changed Since 1972
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From the David Leonhardt of the New York Times:

Screenshot 2017-02-09 16.45.01

In the 45 years I’ve been following the social science stats on math test scores, everything has changed. For example, here was the racial rank order in 1972:

1. Orientals
2. Caucasians
3. Chicanos
4. Blacks

And here’s the completely different racial rank order in 2017:

1. Asians
2. Whites
3. Latinxs
4. African Americans

PS, here’s Tom Edsall trying to spin these SAT scores in the NYT.

And here’s commenter European-American explaining Edsall’s explanation:

The Edsall article is an incredible sequence of non sequiturs:

Headline: Will Trump Destroy Society?
1. There are losers in society, and there has been an election.
2. Test scores indicate whites and (esp.) Asians dominate.
3. This is sad but not inevitable because bla bla bla (sorry couldn’t follow the many paragraphs of irrelevant socially conscious bs).
4. The facts are clear, but will Trump listen?

Huh? Hello?

This from the comments sums it up for me:

Lou — Los Angeles, CA 5 hours ago

This is a perfect example of why people distrust the media. And I say that as a person who was definitely not a Trump supporter.

So the basic theme of this story is that America has pretty much set up minority children to fail and the systems are set up to benefit white kids. Yet the statistic shows here reveal that Asian-American kids blow white kids away. The disparity between whites and Asians is rather large. Yet there is zero attempt to reconcile this reality with the argument that the educational system hurts minorities. None of these social “scientists” seem to care about the white-Asian disparity even though as “scientists”, you would think it would pique their interests.

 
    []
  1. Yan Shen says:

    Having articulated in earlier threads both the essence of Sailerism, and the fundamental theorems of white nationalism and cognitive elitism, let me formulate another sociological thesis, which I call the fundamental theorem of anti-PC/multiculturalism.

    If the current PC insanity in the West ever subsides and reverses, it will in large part be due to the East Asian example… (See for example some of the comments at the NYT in response to the article linked to above.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Odi et amo.
    , @Hunsdon
    And on the seventh day, Yan Shen rested.
    , @Olorin
    Here in Pugetopolis among the most PC people I encounter is an enormous dollop of "East Asian" SJWs playing the race and victimization cards.

    The non-PC people are small business, trades, and infrastructure whites, Mexicans, and Filipinos. You can bet they don't read the NYT.

    I'd think someone trailerhitching on brags about Asian math scores would know the difference between a "thesis" and a "theorem," by the way.

    Though it isn't surprising that all those coached and/or cheated SAT math scores don't signal advanced understanding that many NYT comments are written by a) their own staffers and b) people outside the Grey Hag, variously remunerated for eructating the party line.
    , @bomag
    The East Asian is your future God, and Yan Shen is his prophet.
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  2. Jack D says:

    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics – there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs – even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of “regular” blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter “faux” blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists – somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to “Trump is Wrong”. All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, “Trump is Wrong About X” or “Trump is Lying About X” or “How Trump Broke the Law on X.”

    Read More
    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @JUs' Sayin'...
    Another example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/how-the-anti-vaxxers-are-winning.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0. Notice that about three-quarters of the way into this discussion of vaccination policy there is an attack on Trump. My suspicion is that the fake news oped team required this before they'd publish the article.
    , @European-American
    You are right that everything must be trumpified. Trump has been the irresistible clickbait recipe for over a year, the gift for writers of all persuasions and from all over the world.

    I was going to make a joke about how even ordinary headlines can be trumpified, but the current top news headlines are already all (except one) about Trump... http://www.reuters.com/news

    The only one that isn't about Trump is about the weather, but that's easily fixed:

    Trump ignores storm, tweets about judges: two die

    , @FKA Max

    Quantity has its own quality.
     
    Has anybody noticed this yet?

    Overall these test-takers were 14 percent Asian, 51 percent White, 21 percent Latino and 14 percent black.

    Would it be reasonable to assume, that there would be a higher percentage of non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores if non-Hispanic Whites were represented at their current/actual percentage of the population: 62 percent?

    Nobody seems to have factored this in or pointed this out so far - that I am aware of - that Asians are currently about 5.6 percent of the population, but 14 percent of the test-takers.

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    , @Ed
    I think journalist use Trump's name for clicks. Just slap is name on the headline even if the story has nothing to do with him.

    Edsall wrote about some of these issues before the election so he knows very well many people voted for Trump specifically to prevent forced intergration.
    , @Jimi
    Could the anomaly among Blacks and Asians may be due to extraordinarily intelligent African and Latin immigrants?

    In both groups, the professional immigrant elite demographics are very smart.
    , @Jimi
    Trump Derangement Syndrome has ruined the New Yorker. I enjoy some of their feature pieces on some arcane topic. Some of those essays could reprinted years from now and still be relevant.

    But lately all their features sneak in some criticism of Trump no matter how incidental politics is to the piece. The writers just can't help themselves.
    , @candid_observer
    The graph in the NY Times is based on the same data as presented in the article by those two clowns at Brookings who found many weasel words to describe the performance of blacks in the 750-800 range. Remember the phrase "at most 1000" blacks above 750? Well, apparently, somehow that becomes the official number for the graph. Such a surprise, you know. One set of hacks puts out some deliberately misleading prose and another set of hacks plays telephone and acts as if the claim is the literal and gospel truth.

    And while the Times quotes the sentence about "at most 1000", it of course doesn't quote the following sentence, which at least attempts to put some scientific lipstick on the pig of "at most 1000".

    , @Anon
    There's something new in the liberal mindset in this generation. When I was a kid, people really didn't pay a lot of attention to presidents. This began to change with GW Bush. Liberals became obsessed with him with a hate-filled, stalker-like focus. Liberals then graduated to Obama, and gaga-googooed over him constantly in a way that's excessive even for a star-struck celebrity hunter. Liberals never shut up about him. Now the liberals have flipped into frothing stalker-mode again and their target is Trump. I sure don't remember Ford, Carter, Bush I, or Bill Clinton getting anywhere near as much attention from the public while they were in office. Reagan stirred liberal ire, but liberals didn't talk about him 24/7 and managed to ignore him plenty of times in his 8 years as president.

    The stalker comparison is one I haven't picked at random. Liberals really have turned into stalkers. Psychiatrists will tell you stalkers are inadequate personalities, and broken families and modern society are creating far too many of them.
  3. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,

    My attempt to open up Tom Edsall’s NYT oped piece was blocked by the pay wall. I refuse to give my few shekels to the PC oligarch. Just as well, as I already read more than enough NYT-derived gobbledygook.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Try it in an incognito window.
    , @jim jones
    There is no paywall here in the UK. If you have a VPN set the location to Britain.
    , @william munny
    If you browse using a private window or tab, you get around most paywalls that allow you to read a certain number of articles for free. I use firefox or brave, and both have that option if you click on the top right.
  4. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If Asians are the nation’s top math brains then there are certain arenas of our economy where they should be totally kicking ass.

    Banking/Wall Street

    Gaming/Las Vegas

    These are niches that are wide open to math wizards but you have to perform in the real world and not on a test. If testing predicted real world performance then Asian-Americans would already have taken over these niches.

    One could argue that the bell curve is heavy on good but not great Asian math skills. But we all know that something more than that is playing out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    I work in a very particular niche - trading of financial instruments. It is among the most congnitively demanding fields of work. With potential for unlimited financial gain, trading attracts graduates from top universities and brilliant people from around the world. It even employs many PHDs from sciences and maths. But it's incredibly challenging and many who try the career fail. Since trading is done electronically, it is the ultimate meritocracy since nobody knows who he/she is trading with and racial/sexual/etc discrimination is impossible.

    I have worked at three firms now over a decade and a half and each has been filled with loads of whites and Asians. But almost zero blacks and Hispanics. And very few women.

    Why is that??? Is it possibly related to these tests? Could it possibly be related to g?

    It's fascinating because in this field I have worked with some extreme liberals who I would freely debate the merits of HBD hypothesis and evidence. Even in the yellow/white world around them at work, they still could not accept that there may be extreme differences in racial group intelligence. Modern progressive leftism is truly a religion that will always try to disregard the science no matter how much evidence builds up.

    , @PiltdownMan

    If Asians are the nation’s top math brains then there are certain arenas of our economy where they should be totally kicking ass.
    ...
    Gaming/Las Vegas

     
    I recall hearing that high-stakes Vegas gaming started getting a considerable boost from Chinese high-rollers jetting over to play, starting in the late 1990s. Whether, on balance, they were winners or losers, I don't know. I assume the latter. The house always wins.
    , @Dan Hayes
    Anonymous:

    Historically Asians are relatively recent arrivals to this country.

    Give 'em a little time and rest assured that they'll take over everything!
  5. Jack D says:

    the differences we see in outcomes across neighborhoods are largely due to the causal effect of places rather than differences in the characteristics of their residents.

    Magic Dirt strikes again!

    Read More
  6. The Edsall article is an incredible sequence of non sequiturs:

    Headline: Will Trump Destroy Society?
    1. There are losers in society, and there has been an election.
    2. Test scores indicate whites and (esp.) Asians dominate.
    3. This is sad but not inevitable because bla bla bla (sorry couldn’t follow the many paragraphs of irrelevant socially conscious bs).
    4. The facts are clear, but will Trump listen?

    Huh? Hello?

    This from the comments sums it up for me:

    Lou — Los Angeles, CA 5 hours ago

    This is a perfect example of why people distrust the media. And I say that as a person who was definitely not a Trump supporter.

    So the basic theme of this story is that America has pretty much set up minority children to fail and the systems are set up to benefit white kids. Yet the statistic shows here reveal that Asian-American kids blow white kids away. The disparity between whites and Asians is rather large. Yet there is zero attempt to reconcile this reality with the argument that the educational system hurts minorities. None of these social “scientists” seem to care about the white-Asian disparity even though as “scientists”, you would think it would pique their interests.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Nice to see that someone can spell the word pique and use it correctly in a sentence.
  7. res says:

    And a great quote from Chetty etc. (darn, Jack D beat me to it):

    First, place matters for intergenerational mobility: the differences we see in outcomes across neighborhoods are largely due to the causal effect of places rather than differences in the characteristics of their residents.

    Just in case anyone thinks Magic Dirt theory is a straw man.

    And from a different study: http://www.nber.org/papers/w12078

    Holding constant family background and other factors, a shift from a fully segregated to a completely integrated city closes about one-quarter of the raw black-white gap in SAT scores.

    The interesting question is how is the gap closing accomplished? (anyone have full text to check?)

    But looking at a more recent study: http://www.nber.org/papers/w14211
    Harming the Best: How Schools Affect the Black-White Achievement Gap

    The adverse effect of attending school with a high black enrollment share appears to be an important contributor to the larger growth in the achievement differential in the upper part of the test score distribution.

    From page 16:

    Interestingly, there is little or no systematic variation in initial achievement of blacks across schools of differing proportion black, raising doubts about the importance of demographic composition as a determinant of achievement. However, as Table 5 shows, a pronounced relationship develops as students age. By eighth grade the average black math score equals -0.15 for students in schools that are less than 25 percent black, -0.28 in schools in which the black enrollment share lies between 25 and 50 percent, and -0.40 in schools that are majority black. Our question is how much of this divergence is caused by demographic composition and how much is caused by other school and family factors.

    Table 5 has more detailed results by grade and % black for both whites and blacks.

    Read More
  8. Bugg says:

    Puts “Integration works…” in the title. That is completely unsupported by any facts. In fact by every measure integration doesn’t really work, except that intact 2 parent African-American families who take a serious interest in their children getting a decent education and being involved. For example, Chris Rock’s parents pushed to have him bused from Bed Sty to IS 278, a Marine Park, junior high school, rather than the Bed Sty district school. In his sitcom he called it “Corleone Junior High” and it’s population was and still is largely middle class Italian/secular Jewish/Irish. There will always be smart parents like that. But drop some single parent child from the projects who’s mom views school as babysitting, and it won’t work.

    Further none of the Upper East Siders and Park Slopers reading this preaching to their choir are rolling out the welcome mat to project dwellers and their pathologies. And don’t see any of them volunteering their children to experience the magic dirt of inner city schools. Always laughable that liberals love their concepts in the macro, but the personal micro, not so much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Or as Linux Van Pelt said : https://tvmoviesandgeneralignorance.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/i-love-mankind-its-people-i-cant-stand/
  9. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What a gigantic long term disaster Asian mass immigration has been for Americans whose children must compete with these test jockeys.

    The gatekeepers at the top universities who are limiting the Asian enrollment are absolutely correct to do so. Asian domination of the campus does not increase the intellectual prestige of the school. That is where the rubber meets the road.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    My impression us that if you are smart, the more you prepare for the SAT math test, the higher your score will be. Familiarity with the various types of questions that are often asked and the ways in which the questions and answers can be tricky, can help a person do much better on them. I would think this would give Asians, with their well-known study habits, a definite advantage on the math SATs.
  10. Chebyshev says:

    I took the test three times. Would I be counted thrice?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    That's a really interesting question. Does anyone know how this works in the statistics? If there are systematic differences in who is taking the test multiple times it seems that could introduce a significant bias. To be clear, the theory is that repeated testing does not increase scores much. I am thinking more of the idea that if one group takes the test 3x it implies they would show up as overrepresented relative to their population at all levels. Similarly, if one part of the score distribution tended to take the test more often that could invalidate the normal distribution seen within groups.
  11. syonredux says:

    Among the scholars cited here, there is virtual unanimity on the conviction that one way to improve the prospects of poor minorities, black and Hispanic, is to desegregate both schools and housing.

    Those are difficult goals even in less polarized times, as the intense opposition to the court-ordered construction of 750 units of affordable housing in Democratic Westchester County recently showed.

    MMM, since Asians have the highest scores, shouldn’t we be trying to place Blacks and Hispanics in Asian communities…….

    After all, we’ve gotta do something to close the Black-Asian gap…..

    Read More
  12. @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    Another example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/how-the-anti-vaxxers-are-winning.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0. Notice that about three-quarters of the way into this discussion of vaccination policy there is an attack on Trump. My suspicion is that the fake news oped team required this before they’d publish the article.

    Read More
  13. Jack D says:
    @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    My attempt to open up Tom Edsall's NYT oped piece was blocked by the pay wall. I refuse to give my few shekels to the PC oligarch. Just as well, as I already read more than enough NYT-derived gobbledygook.

    Try it in an incognito window.

    Read More
  14. XYZ says:

    Are there any charts that show distribution of scores within an ethnic group? Am I reading this wrong that the 450 – 500 ethnic group scores are roughly equivalent to their percentage of test takers (but for the Asians)?

    Percentage comparison within the same group across all scores would be very interesting.

    At every point it appears the Asian (-American I hope) students are MUCH better based on percentage of test takers. But the white test takers seem only slightly better than average (which is probable).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    2015 scores:

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf
  15. Yoyo says:

    Eh, I don’t know that looking at the scores over 750 means much. After all, any Black kid knows that getting a 600 will get him into any school he wants, and so he has no motivation to score higher, whereas the Asian kid knows he needs that 800 to get in anything better than a JuCo so he works harder.

    See? Test scores prove nothing about inherent ability!

    Read More
  16. @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    You are right that everything must be trumpified. Trump has been the irresistible clickbait recipe for over a year, the gift for writers of all persuasions and from all over the world.

    I was going to make a joke about how even ordinary headlines can be trumpified, but the current top news headlines are already all (except one) about Trump… http://www.reuters.com/news

    The only one that isn’t about Trump is about the weather, but that’s easily fixed:

    Trump ignores storm, tweets about judges: two die

    Read More
  17. Anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer

    Look at the sample. It is 14% asian. This isn’t a representative sample. It likely didn’t account for people who retook the test. This reminds me, we need to go back to a g-loaded admissions test. Of course the SAT still correlates with IQ around the median, but it isn’t a good test for the highly gifted, who should be going to the best schools. The GMAT has a fantastic format and tests all the skills the SAT does but does it in a g-loaded way that benefits high IQ individuals. Asians do have higher spatial IQs than whites, but they over perform on tests like the SAT for cultural reasons. The irony here is that the SAT moved away from being g-loaded because of Politically Correct concerns. The problem is that blacks don’t study either, so they actually perform slightly worse now than when the SAT was g-loaded.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymouth
    If Asians do have higher spatial IQs than whites, then why are they such bad drivers?
  18. FKA Max says:
    @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    Quantity has its own quality.

    Has anybody noticed this yet?

    Overall these test-takers were 14 percent Asian, 51 percent White, 21 percent Latino and 14 percent black.

    Would it be reasonable to assume, that there would be a higher percentage of non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores if non-Hispanic Whites were represented at their current/actual percentage of the population: 62 percent?

    Nobody seems to have factored this in or pointed this out so far – that I am aware of – that Asians are currently about 5.6 percent of the population, but 14 percent of the test-takers.

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    I admit that presenting the data in terms of % of total test takers who scored above some threshold is a bit misleading, since it ignores the obvious fact that the different groups weren't equally represented in the overall test taking pool. However, this in fact understates the degree to which Asian Americans over-performed, since obviously there were a lot more white Americans in absolute numbers.

    Let's say that instead we were presented percentiles for each of the ethnic groups as is more commonly done. While I wouldn't be surprised if a higher percentage of eligible Asian American high school students took the test compared to eligible high school students of other ethnic groups, wouldn't that most likely hurt Asian Americans in the relative percentile case, since I assume that non-test takers are disproportionately more likely to come from the lower portions of the bell curve? So sure in the way the data was presented in the NYT article, there could only be the same or more absolute numbers of white Americans who scored above a 750, but in the more correct way of analyzing the numbers it probably wouldn't help the percentile right?

    Also, I wouldn't necessarily use overall population percentage as a proxy for percentage of the eligible high school population as a whole. I suspect that Asian Americans are most likely a decently higher % of the latter compared to the former.

    , @Jack D
    14 vs 5.6 - school age pop vs general pop, regional concentration (SAT is a coastal thing, ACT in the middle where there are few Asians). A greater % of Asians on a college track.

    Still doesn't explain how/why 14% of the test takers are getting 60% of the scores from 750 to 800%. If Asians are only 5.6% rather than 14% then they are even MORE over-represented.
    , @map
    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It's an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It's a joke.
    , @wakeup
    SAT test is not compulsory. Those not taking the test is already a self selected group that most probably wont even be in the mid range performance group. Adding them will decrease the high end percent further.
  19. the average black math score equals -0.15 for students in schools that are less than 25 percent black, -0.28 in schools in which the black enrollment share lies between 25 and 50 percent, and -0.40 in schools that are majority black.

    There is an obvious genetic explanation for this: the children of more intelligent, more successful blacks are likely to live in better neighborhoods, where the schools have a lower percentage of blacks, while the reverse is true for children of less intelligent, less successful blacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I'm sticking with Magic Dirt. Anything that requires you to put "less intelligent " and "black" in the same sentence is not good for your job prospects, especially in academia.
    , @res
    The paper addresses this. If you look at Table 5 you'll see that the students start off more comparable (with, oddly, the 75-100% black schools doing best). Here are the numbers in the same order (note the 3 numbers I quoted before elided the difference between -0.40 and -0.39 for the two majority black groups).

    third grade -0.15 -0.19 -0.24 -0.01

    The key point is the scores tend to get worse over time at the majority black schools for both blacks and whites.

    An important point is how different the populations are in each type of school.
    For blacks: observations 20,784 13,664 7,014 8,407
    For whites: observations 219,034 16,761 1,662 185
    One thing that strikes me as odd is how close the 25-50% black school white and black populations are. Looking at all of the numbers either there was some selective sampling or the school % black distribution does not look very Gaussian.

  20. NOTA says:

    Adding Trump to the story automatically makes it better at getting forwarded on Facebook, and getting clicks and attention. That’s the food that all media sources live on right now. So they will go on sticking references to Trump into their stories, as they’ll go on clickbait-i-fying their stories, till they’ve expended all their remaining credibility to stay afloat for a few more years.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Yep, it's like all the stupid click bait crap PJMedia has infested its pages with lately.
    - See what Angie Harmon looks like now!
    - 10 Worst Wedding Photos!
    etc.

    One step above Make Your Penis 3 Inches Longer in 10 Days!
  21. The distribution of White/Asian kids in the top segment (750-800) of about 1:2 very closely matches the distribution of the same kids in my son’s 3rd grade gifted program here in WA state. No Blacks or Latinos, but then not enough many of those live here to even show up. The cutoff for the gifted program in our school district is about top 2% on standardized test, depending on the number of spaces they have available.

    Among Asian kids (Chinese & Indian, more Chinese than Indian) there are both boys and girls. There are White boys, but no White girls. Several kids are mixed (White/Asian, Asian/Asian).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    From '80 to 1992, the Hopkins gifted Study (SAT >700 before age 13) was around 75/25 male/female. I think the Asian/White breakdown that they give back then (1/3 - 2/3) probably has now flipped. Black and Hispanic COMBINED was 1.3% but there were fewer Hispanics back then and fewer Africans. I don't know how the crosstabs break re: white male vs white female but I don't know why they would break differently among the races.

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/Search-Database/entry/A10035
    , @(((Owen)))

    Among Asian kids (Chinese & Indian, more Chinese than Indian) there are both boys and girls. There are White boys, but no White girls
     
    That's why I dated the Oriental girls in school: Smart white American girls have contempt for hard work and learning. They'd rather use their innate verbal skills to be good lawyers and marketers than study hard and learn to build anything.

    (My SAT verbal was significantly higher than my math, but you don't create value in the twenty-first century with verbal fluency; you have to make things and that requires math.)
  22. Off-topic, but is anyone else having trouble getting the reply button to work from a mobile (iOS) device? Current iOS, Safari, ad block.

    Read More
  23. Ed says:
    @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    I think journalist use Trump’s name for clicks. Just slap is name on the headline even if the story has nothing to do with him.

    Edsall wrote about some of these issues before the election so he knows very well many people voted for Trump specifically to prevent forced intergration.

    Read More
  24. Jack D says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    the average black math score equals -0.15 for students in schools that are less than 25 percent black, -0.28 in schools in which the black enrollment share lies between 25 and 50 percent, and -0.40 in schools that are majority black.

    There is an obvious genetic explanation for this: the children of more intelligent, more successful blacks are likely to live in better neighborhoods, where the schools have a lower percentage of blacks, while the reverse is true for children of less intelligent, less successful blacks.

    I’m sticking with Magic Dirt. Anything that requires you to put “less intelligent ” and “black” in the same sentence is not good for your job prospects, especially in academia.

    Read More
  25. Yan Shen says:
    @FKA Max

    Quantity has its own quality.
     
    Has anybody noticed this yet?

    Overall these test-takers were 14 percent Asian, 51 percent White, 21 percent Latino and 14 percent black.

    Would it be reasonable to assume, that there would be a higher percentage of non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores if non-Hispanic Whites were represented at their current/actual percentage of the population: 62 percent?

    Nobody seems to have factored this in or pointed this out so far - that I am aware of - that Asians are currently about 5.6 percent of the population, but 14 percent of the test-takers.

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    I admit that presenting the data in terms of % of total test takers who scored above some threshold is a bit misleading, since it ignores the obvious fact that the different groups weren’t equally represented in the overall test taking pool. However, this in fact understates the degree to which Asian Americans over-performed, since obviously there were a lot more white Americans in absolute numbers.

    Let’s say that instead we were presented percentiles for each of the ethnic groups as is more commonly done. While I wouldn’t be surprised if a higher percentage of eligible Asian American high school students took the test compared to eligible high school students of other ethnic groups, wouldn’t that most likely hurt Asian Americans in the relative percentile case, since I assume that non-test takers are disproportionately more likely to come from the lower portions of the bell curve? So sure in the way the data was presented in the NYT article, there could only be the same or more absolute numbers of white Americans who scored above a 750, but in the more correct way of analyzing the numbers it probably wouldn’t help the percentile right?

    Also, I wouldn’t necessarily use overall population percentage as a proxy for percentage of the eligible high school population as a whole. I suspect that Asian Americans are most likely a decently higher % of the latter compared to the former.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    If non-Hispanic Whites were to test-prep at the same rates and with the same intensity/dedication/ambition as Asians do, there would also be many more non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores:

    Use of Test-Prep Courses and Gains, by Race and Ethnicity

    Group, % Taking Test-Prep Course, Post-Course Gain in Points on SAT
    East Asian American 30% 68.8
    Other Asian 15% 23.8
    White 10% 12.3
    Black 16% 14.9
    Hispanic 11% 24.6

    Notably, the gains come on top of unequal results in SAT scores to start with. Average scores for Asian American students (not broken out by East Asian and other Asian) have been growing at much faster rates than have those for other groups in recent years.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/01/19/study-finds-east-asian-americans-gain-most-sat-courses
     

    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/brookings-race-gaps-in-sat-math-scores-are-as-big-as-ever/#comment-1754618

    Asians are good, but they are not the complete ``naturals'' that many researchers in the IQist-sphere like them or make them out to be.


    The authors add that a superiority complex and insecurity are not mutually exclusive. The coexistence of both qualities "lies at the heart of every Triple Package culture", producing a need to be recognized and a "I'll show them" mentality because the superiority a person has is not acknowledge by the society. Namely, immigrants suffer status collapse though moving up the economic ladder. Thus, this circumstance results in anxiety but also "a drive and jaw-dropping accomplishment."
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Package#Impulse_control
  26. Jack D says:
    @FKA Max

    Quantity has its own quality.
     
    Has anybody noticed this yet?

    Overall these test-takers were 14 percent Asian, 51 percent White, 21 percent Latino and 14 percent black.

    Would it be reasonable to assume, that there would be a higher percentage of non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores if non-Hispanic Whites were represented at their current/actual percentage of the population: 62 percent?

    Nobody seems to have factored this in or pointed this out so far - that I am aware of - that Asians are currently about 5.6 percent of the population, but 14 percent of the test-takers.

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    14 vs 5.6 – school age pop vs general pop, regional concentration (SAT is a coastal thing, ACT in the middle where there are few Asians). A greater % of Asians on a college track.

    Still doesn’t explain how/why 14% of the test takers are getting 60% of the scores from 750 to 800%. If Asians are only 5.6% rather than 14% then they are even MORE over-represented.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    14 vs 5.6 – school age pop vs general pop, regional concentration (SAT is a coastal thing, ACT in the middle where there are few Asians). A greater % of Asians on a college track.
     
    This doesn't explain the disparity. Asians are only 10% in even California which has the highest Asian proportion. Also, they don't have more kids than whites or latinos. The 14% is a sampling problem. It is likely due to counting the same test takers more the once if they took the test more than once. You cannot assume that this sample is a representative one. This wasn't a scientifically done study. This was Brookings taking raw, anonymized College Board data.
  27. res says:
    @Chebyshev
    I took the test three times. Would I be counted thrice?

    That’s a really interesting question. Does anyone know how this works in the statistics? If there are systematic differences in who is taking the test multiple times it seems that could introduce a significant bias. To be clear, the theory is that repeated testing does not increase scores much. I am thinking more of the idea that if one group takes the test 3x it implies they would show up as overrepresented relative to their population at all levels. Similarly, if one part of the score distribution tended to take the test more often that could invalidate the normal distribution seen within groups.

    Read More
  28. Jimi says:
    @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    Could the anomaly among Blacks and Asians may be due to extraordinarily intelligent African and Latin immigrants?

    In both groups, the professional immigrant elite demographics are very smart.

    Read More
  29. Jimi says:
    @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    Trump Derangement Syndrome has ruined the New Yorker. I enjoy some of their feature pieces on some arcane topic. Some of those essays could reprinted years from now and still be relevant.

    But lately all their features sneak in some criticism of Trump no matter how incidental politics is to the piece. The writers just can’t help themselves.

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  30. @European-American
    The Edsall article is an incredible sequence of non sequiturs:

    Headline: Will Trump Destroy Society?
    1. There are losers in society, and there has been an election.
    2. Test scores indicate whites and (esp.) Asians dominate.
    3. This is sad but not inevitable because bla bla bla (sorry couldn't follow the many paragraphs of irrelevant socially conscious bs).
    4. The facts are clear, but will Trump listen?

    Huh? Hello?

    This from the comments sums it up for me:


    Lou -- Los Angeles, CA 5 hours ago

    This is a perfect example of why people distrust the media. And I say that as a person who was definitely not a Trump supporter.

    So the basic theme of this story is that America has pretty much set up minority children to fail and the systems are set up to benefit white kids. Yet the statistic shows here reveal that Asian-American kids blow white kids away. The disparity between whites and Asians is rather large. Yet there is zero attempt to reconcile this reality with the argument that the educational system hurts minorities. None of these social "scientists" seem to care about the white-Asian disparity even though as "scientists", you would think it would pique their interests.
     

    Nice to see that someone can spell the word pique and use it correctly in a sentence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @European-American
    Haha nice to see someone appreciate it!

    For full disclosure, it was spelled wrong by the commenter, and I just had to correct it.

    ...and, to be honest, I had to google it, because I knew "peaked" or "peeked" looked wrong, but I couldn't think of the correct spelling.

    (I think the common misspelling will be acceptable soon... And I'm getting old haha....)

    Anyway it was all worth it since Steve kindly quoted it in the head.
  31. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I don’t have a problem with MSM ignoring the white-Asian gap. The goal of the media is GET WHITEY and has been for a long time and people should recognize this reality.

    Using logical arguments against the left is a waste of time. They are never convinced by logic because leftism is a religion and a status marker.

    Read More
  32. @Bugg
    Puts "Integration works..." in the title. That is completely unsupported by any facts. In fact by every measure integration doesn't really work, except that intact 2 parent African-American families who take a serious interest in their children getting a decent education and being involved. For example, Chris Rock's parents pushed to have him bused from Bed Sty to IS 278, a Marine Park, junior high school, rather than the Bed Sty district school. In his sitcom he called it "Corleone Junior High" and it's population was and still is largely middle class Italian/secular Jewish/Irish. There will always be smart parents like that. But drop some single parent child from the projects who's mom views school as babysitting, and it won't work.

    Further none of the Upper East Siders and Park Slopers reading this preaching to their choir are rolling out the welcome mat to project dwellers and their pathologies. And don't see any of them volunteering their children to experience the magic dirt of inner city schools. Always laughable that liberals love their concepts in the macro, but the personal micro, not so much.
    Read More
  33. @Jack D
    Try it in an incognito window.

    What is an incognito window?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    He refers to private browsing; if I'm remembering the relevant corny branding correctly, he may he conflating the corny branding of Firefix with that of Safari. Anyhow, "open a new private window and try things then" is how I understand his advice. (I have none of my own under your circumstances. I despise Apple, Inc. and everything they stand for; my actual advice is that you stop using their products and subsidising the destruction of Western civilisation.)
    , @Autochthon
    My apologies; I now realise Mr. Hayes was the fellow referring to Safari. Responses to responses get a bit hairy after a bit.
  34. Yak-15 says:
    @Anonymous
    If Asians are the nation's top math brains then there are certain arenas of our economy where they should be totally kicking ass.

    Banking/Wall Street

    Gaming/Las Vegas

    These are niches that are wide open to math wizards but you have to perform in the real world and not on a test. If testing predicted real world performance then Asian-Americans would already have taken over these niches.

    One could argue that the bell curve is heavy on good but not great Asian math skills. But we all know that something more than that is playing out.

    I work in a very particular niche – trading of financial instruments. It is among the most congnitively demanding fields of work. With potential for unlimited financial gain, trading attracts graduates from top universities and brilliant people from around the world. It even employs many PHDs from sciences and maths. But it’s incredibly challenging and many who try the career fail. Since trading is done electronically, it is the ultimate meritocracy since nobody knows who he/she is trading with and racial/sexual/etc discrimination is impossible.

    I have worked at three firms now over a decade and a half and each has been filled with loads of whites and Asians. But almost zero blacks and Hispanics. And very few women.

    Why is that??? Is it possibly related to these tests? Could it possibly be related to g?

    It’s fascinating because in this field I have worked with some extreme liberals who I would freely debate the merits of HBD hypothesis and evidence. Even in the yellow/white world around them at work, they still could not accept that there may be extreme differences in racial group intelligence. Modern progressive leftism is truly a religion that will always try to disregard the science no matter how much evidence builds up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @map
    Yeah, they follow some silly mathematical model, fail to hedge and then blow out their firms.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can't we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn't true - and they do - we should be able to profit from it. Why can't we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don't actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I'd appreciate other thoughts on the subject.
    , @RW
    How many of those Asians you've worked with are immigrants or children of immigrants? There has been a strong selection effect over the last three or four decades for Asian immigrants to the USA with strong quant skills. East-Asians and Indians are probably not as impressive in math in their home countries.
  35. Jack D says:
    @Mark Eugenikos
    The distribution of White/Asian kids in the top segment (750-800) of about 1:2 very closely matches the distribution of the same kids in my son's 3rd grade gifted program here in WA state. No Blacks or Latinos, but then not enough many of those live here to even show up. The cutoff for the gifted program in our school district is about top 2% on standardized test, depending on the number of spaces they have available.

    Among Asian kids (Chinese & Indian, more Chinese than Indian) there are both boys and girls. There are White boys, but no White girls. Several kids are mixed (White/Asian, Asian/Asian).

    From ’80 to 1992, the Hopkins gifted Study (SAT >700 before age 13) was around 75/25 male/female. I think the Asian/White breakdown that they give back then (1/3 – 2/3) probably has now flipped. Black and Hispanic COMBINED was 1.3% but there were fewer Hispanics back then and fewer Africans. I don’t know how the crosstabs break re: white male vs white female but I don’t know why they would break differently among the races.

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/Search-Database/entry/A10035

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    I don’t know how the crosstabs break re: white male vs white female but I don’t know why they would break differently among the races.

     

    Thanks for your link. From there:

    From 1980 through 1992, 1,132 students joined SMPY or SET by scoring between 700 and 800 on the SAT-M, between 630 and 800 on the SAT-V, or both. The data summarized below refer to this population.
    ...
    Of this group, 76.1 percent (N = 861) are male and 23.9 percent (N= 271) are female; 76.0 percent (N= 860) qualified on the SAT-M, 11.3 percent (N = 128) on the SAT-V, and 12.7 percent (N = 144) on both. Females are more heavily represented among the verbal qualifiers, with 55.5 percent of verbal qualifiers being female, compared to only 18.9 percent of the math qualifiers and 25.7 percent of the double qualifiers.

     

    Two speculative thoughts.
    1. The V/M thresholds differed in stringency (see % qualifiers by each). V was harder which disfavored females.
    2. Given the differences in group means and the resultant strong effects at the tails I think we might see M/F difference in variance impacting the sex balance differently by race. I would need to see numbers based on actual distributions to judge this.
  36. map says:
    @FKA Max

    Quantity has its own quality.
     
    Has anybody noticed this yet?

    Overall these test-takers were 14 percent Asian, 51 percent White, 21 percent Latino and 14 percent black.

    Would it be reasonable to assume, that there would be a higher percentage of non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores if non-Hispanic Whites were represented at their current/actual percentage of the population: 62 percent?

    Nobody seems to have factored this in or pointed this out so far - that I am aware of - that Asians are currently about 5.6 percent of the population, but 14 percent of the test-takers.

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It’s an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It’s a joke.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @map
    Not to mention cheating. After all, don't we see that in all of the Westinghouse competitions?

    Tell me, how is it possible for these people to be good at something that they never invented on their own?
    , @FKA Max
    Could not possibly agree more!
    , @Daniel Chieh

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

     

    Not sure if sarcastic, but China actually has been developing along some lines of technology in a faster and, I would say, innovative way. For example, China is seriously tackling freight transport with drones, while the US is still struggling alone.

    I'll say that in a dozen years or so, you'll see China actually take leadership in a number of technological fields.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It’s a joke.

     

    That has as much to do with science turning into a really dumb "publish or perish" mentality where the ability to rush out as many self-justifying papers as possible has become dominant.
    , @Anonymous
    You'd think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn't happened. They've stagnated as well.
    , @Stan Adams
    Yes.

    The telegraph was the key invention that led to the modern world - it was the forerunner of telephony, radio (and television), and, eventually, the Internet.

    There is nothing that we have now that could not have been foreseen by a sufficiently knowledgeable and forward-thinking person in 1973. Indeed, those on the cutting edge in 1929 could have anticipated many if not most of the technologies that we now enjoy. Even someone living in 1873 might have been able to have an inkling of things to come.

    But someone living in 1829 wouldn't have had the conceptual framework to understand many of the devices that we take for granted. How do you explain the idea of watching YouTube clips on your iPhone to someone who's never seen a photograph or watched a movie, or even heard of a telephone?
  37. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Relocating massive numbers of Asian immigrants to American ‘magic dirt’ hasn’t made Asians more creative. That is why they are not taking over prized math related niches like Wall Street even though they have the best math scores.

    Read More
    • Replies: @map
    They are not taking over these niches because they under-perform their test scores in the real world. Top universities track their students because they want to invest in future donors, not future middle managers. Asians end up not doing as well as their credentials would indicate.
    , @Anonymous
    There's very little math involved in most Wall St. and finance jobs beyond arithmetic and basic algebra. Social skills and even things like height are much more important.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-goldman-gary-cohn-got-to-wall-street-2015-5

    "And then literally right after the market's (sic) closed, I see this pretty well-dressed guy running off the floor, yelling to his clerk, 'I've got to go, I'm running to LaGuardia, I'm late, I'll call you when I get to the airport,'" Cohn told Gladwell in the book. "I jump in the elevator, and say, 'I hear you're going to LaGuardia.' He says, 'Yeah,' I say, 'Can we share a cab?' He says, 'Sure.' I think this is awesome. With Friday afternoon traffic, I can spend the next hour in the taxi getting a job."

    It was truly a brilliant move, one most people wouldn't have the guts to make.

    It turned out the man Cohn was sharing the cab with was also running the options business for one of the big brokerage firms. Cohn didn't know what an option was, but he pretended as if he did.

    "I lied to him all the way to the airport," Cohn told Gladwell. "When he said, 'Do you know what an option is?' I said, 'Of course I do, I know everything, I can do anything for you.' Basically by the time we got out of the taxi, I had his number. He said, 'Call me Monday.' I called him Monday, flew back to New York Tuesday or Wednesday, had an interview, and started working the next Monday. In that period of time, I read McMillan's "Options as a Strategic Investment"book. It's like the Bible of options trading."

    (By the way, Gladwell notes, it still takes Cohn about six hours to read 22 pages.)
     
  38. @NOTA
    Adding Trump to the story automatically makes it better at getting forwarded on Facebook, and getting clicks and attention. That's the food that all media sources live on right now. So they will go on sticking references to Trump into their stories, as they'll go on clickbait-i-fying their stories, till they've expended all their remaining credibility to stay afloat for a few more years.

    Yep, it’s like all the stupid click bait crap PJMedia has infested its pages with lately.
    - See what Angie Harmon looks like now!
    - 10 Worst Wedding Photos!
    etc.

    One step above Make Your Penis 3 Inches Longer in 10 Days!

    Read More
  39. res says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    the average black math score equals -0.15 for students in schools that are less than 25 percent black, -0.28 in schools in which the black enrollment share lies between 25 and 50 percent, and -0.40 in schools that are majority black.

    There is an obvious genetic explanation for this: the children of more intelligent, more successful blacks are likely to live in better neighborhoods, where the schools have a lower percentage of blacks, while the reverse is true for children of less intelligent, less successful blacks.

    The paper addresses this. If you look at Table 5 you’ll see that the students start off more comparable (with, oddly, the 75-100% black schools doing best). Here are the numbers in the same order (note the 3 numbers I quoted before elided the difference between -0.40 and -0.39 for the two majority black groups).

    third grade -0.15 -0.19 -0.24 -0.01

    The key point is the scores tend to get worse over time at the majority black schools for both blacks and whites.

    An important point is how different the populations are in each type of school.
    For blacks: observations 20,784 13,664 7,014 8,407
    For whites: observations 219,034 16,761 1,662 185
    One thing that strikes me as odd is how close the 25-50% black school white and black populations are. Looking at all of the numbers either there was some selective sampling or the school % black distribution does not look very Gaussian.

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  40. Chebyshev says:

    I would like to know the racial distribution of AMC 12, American Mathematics Competition 12, test takers in the United States. It must be almost entirely Asian and White, because only serious math students have even heard of it

    Read More
  41. map says:
    @map
    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It's an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It's a joke.

    Not to mention cheating. After all, don’t we see that in all of the Westinghouse competitions?

    Tell me, how is it possible for these people to be good at something that they never invented on their own?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Actually, we invented the written exam. And we're pretty consistently higher in every other academic category as well as income.
  42. res says:
    @Jack D
    From '80 to 1992, the Hopkins gifted Study (SAT >700 before age 13) was around 75/25 male/female. I think the Asian/White breakdown that they give back then (1/3 - 2/3) probably has now flipped. Black and Hispanic COMBINED was 1.3% but there were fewer Hispanics back then and fewer Africans. I don't know how the crosstabs break re: white male vs white female but I don't know why they would break differently among the races.

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/Search-Database/entry/A10035

    I don’t know how the crosstabs break re: white male vs white female but I don’t know why they would break differently among the races.

    Thanks for your link. From there:

    From 1980 through 1992, 1,132 students joined SMPY or SET by scoring between 700 and 800 on the SAT-M, between 630 and 800 on the SAT-V, or both. The data summarized below refer to this population.

    Of this group, 76.1 percent (N = 861) are male and 23.9 percent (N= 271) are female; 76.0 percent (N= 860) qualified on the SAT-M, 11.3 percent (N = 128) on the SAT-V, and 12.7 percent (N = 144) on both. Females are more heavily represented among the verbal qualifiers, with 55.5 percent of verbal qualifiers being female, compared to only 18.9 percent of the math qualifiers and 25.7 percent of the double qualifiers.

    Two speculative thoughts.
    1. The V/M thresholds differed in stringency (see % qualifiers by each). V was harder which disfavored females.
    2. Given the differences in group means and the resultant strong effects at the tails I think we might see M/F difference in variance impacting the sex balance differently by race. I would need to see numbers based on actual distributions to judge this.

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  43. map says:
    @Yak-15
    I work in a very particular niche - trading of financial instruments. It is among the most congnitively demanding fields of work. With potential for unlimited financial gain, trading attracts graduates from top universities and brilliant people from around the world. It even employs many PHDs from sciences and maths. But it's incredibly challenging and many who try the career fail. Since trading is done electronically, it is the ultimate meritocracy since nobody knows who he/she is trading with and racial/sexual/etc discrimination is impossible.

    I have worked at three firms now over a decade and a half and each has been filled with loads of whites and Asians. But almost zero blacks and Hispanics. And very few women.

    Why is that??? Is it possibly related to these tests? Could it possibly be related to g?

    It's fascinating because in this field I have worked with some extreme liberals who I would freely debate the merits of HBD hypothesis and evidence. Even in the yellow/white world around them at work, they still could not accept that there may be extreme differences in racial group intelligence. Modern progressive leftism is truly a religion that will always try to disregard the science no matter how much evidence builds up.

    Yeah, they follow some silly mathematical model, fail to hedge and then blow out their firms.

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  44. @Anonymous
    If Asians are the nation's top math brains then there are certain arenas of our economy where they should be totally kicking ass.

    Banking/Wall Street

    Gaming/Las Vegas

    These are niches that are wide open to math wizards but you have to perform in the real world and not on a test. If testing predicted real world performance then Asian-Americans would already have taken over these niches.

    One could argue that the bell curve is heavy on good but not great Asian math skills. But we all know that something more than that is playing out.

    If Asians are the nation’s top math brains then there are certain arenas of our economy where they should be totally kicking ass.

    Gaming/Las Vegas

    I recall hearing that high-stakes Vegas gaming started getting a considerable boost from Chinese high-rollers jetting over to play, starting in the late 1990s. Whether, on balance, they were winners or losers, I don’t know. I assume the latter. The house always wins.

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  45. @Jim Don Bob
    What is an incognito window?

    He refers to private browsing; if I’m remembering the relevant corny branding correctly, he may he conflating the corny branding of Firefix with that of Safari. Anyhow, “open a new private window and try things then” is how I understand his advice. (I have none of my own under your circumstances. I despise Apple, Inc. and everything they stand for; my actual advice is that you stop using their products and subsidising the destruction of Western civilisation.)

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    I do not use Apple anything. Their hardware is 50% overpriced and their software inflexible - do it Steve's way because he knows best. That said, their ergonomics are excellent and very intuitive even for newbies.

    As far as private browsing goes, color me skeptical. I would not doubt that the NSA has back doors into everything; Google tracks you everywhere and does deep packet inspection; Tor was developed by the US Navy, etc. Computers are fast and storage is cheap. There is no online privacy. Google yourself sometime.

    Here is an article about a guy who tried to disappear 7 years ago: https://www.wired.com/2009/11/ff_vanish2/
  46. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anonymous
    If Asians are the nation's top math brains then there are certain arenas of our economy where they should be totally kicking ass.

    Banking/Wall Street

    Gaming/Las Vegas

    These are niches that are wide open to math wizards but you have to perform in the real world and not on a test. If testing predicted real world performance then Asian-Americans would already have taken over these niches.

    One could argue that the bell curve is heavy on good but not great Asian math skills. But we all know that something more than that is playing out.

    Anonymous:

    Historically Asians are relatively recent arrivals to this country.

    Give ‘em a little time and rest assured that they’ll take over everything!

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  47. @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    The graph in the NY Times is based on the same data as presented in the article by those two clowns at Brookings who found many weasel words to describe the performance of blacks in the 750-800 range. Remember the phrase “at most 1000″ blacks above 750? Well, apparently, somehow that becomes the official number for the graph. Such a surprise, you know. One set of hacks puts out some deliberately misleading prose and another set of hacks plays telephone and acts as if the claim is the literal and gospel truth.

    And while the Times quotes the sentence about “at most 1000″, it of course doesn’t quote the following sentence, which at least attempts to put some scientific lipstick on the pig of “at most 1000″.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think there are two things going on there: 1.Just plain lyin' (or "conservative" assumptions) where 200 becomes "at most 1,000" as you say and 2. "African Americans" who aren't in the usual sense - either they are Adam Clayton Powell IV type AAs with <12% African heritage and at least 1 fully white parent (and usually a mulatto 2nd parent), or else they are 100% African Igbos who aren't really American.
  48. map says:
    @Anonymous
    Relocating massive numbers of Asian immigrants to American 'magic dirt' hasn't made Asians more creative. That is why they are not taking over prized math related niches like Wall Street even though they have the best math scores.

    They are not taking over these niches because they under-perform their test scores in the real world. Top universities track their students because they want to invest in future donors, not future middle managers. Asians end up not doing as well as their credentials would indicate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Is $20 million enough?

    http://www.philly.com/philly/health/Main-Line-couple-gives-millions-to-MIT-for-autism-research.html

    Really tragic that 2 such brilliant people should have not 1 but 2 autistic children (one normal). I wonder whether it is one of those things where 1 copy of a certain gene is good (for intelligence) but 2 are bad (make you autistic)?

    , @Anonymous
    What about South Asians? If you measure real world performance by success in attaining upper management and other prominent roles and positions, they don't seem to under-perform. They seem to be overrepresented in them. There are the CEOs of Microsoft, Google, Pepsi, one of the recent CEOs of Citibank, Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, NYC US attorney Preet Bharara, the new FCC chairman, the mayor of London, etc.
  49. FKA Max says:
    @Yan Shen
    I admit that presenting the data in terms of % of total test takers who scored above some threshold is a bit misleading, since it ignores the obvious fact that the different groups weren't equally represented in the overall test taking pool. However, this in fact understates the degree to which Asian Americans over-performed, since obviously there were a lot more white Americans in absolute numbers.

    Let's say that instead we were presented percentiles for each of the ethnic groups as is more commonly done. While I wouldn't be surprised if a higher percentage of eligible Asian American high school students took the test compared to eligible high school students of other ethnic groups, wouldn't that most likely hurt Asian Americans in the relative percentile case, since I assume that non-test takers are disproportionately more likely to come from the lower portions of the bell curve? So sure in the way the data was presented in the NYT article, there could only be the same or more absolute numbers of white Americans who scored above a 750, but in the more correct way of analyzing the numbers it probably wouldn't help the percentile right?

    Also, I wouldn't necessarily use overall population percentage as a proxy for percentage of the eligible high school population as a whole. I suspect that Asian Americans are most likely a decently higher % of the latter compared to the former.

    If non-Hispanic Whites were to test-prep at the same rates and with the same intensity/dedication/ambition as Asians do, there would also be many more non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores:

    Use of Test-Prep Courses and Gains, by Race and Ethnicity

    Group, % Taking Test-Prep Course, Post-Course Gain in Points on SAT
    East Asian American 30% 68.8
    Other Asian 15% 23.8
    White 10% 12.3
    Black 16% 14.9
    Hispanic 11% 24.6

    Notably, the gains come on top of unequal results in SAT scores to start with. Average scores for Asian American students (not broken out by East Asian and other Asian) have been growing at much faster rates than have those for other groups in recent years.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/01/19/study-finds-east-asian-americans-gain-most-sat-courses

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/brookings-race-gaps-in-sat-math-scores-are-as-big-as-ever/#comment-1754618

    Asians are good, but they are not the complete “naturals” that many researchers in the IQist-sphere like them or make them out to be.

    The authors add that a superiority complex and insecurity are not mutually exclusive. The coexistence of both qualities “lies at the heart of every Triple Package culture”, producing a need to be recognized and a “I’ll show them” mentality because the superiority a person has is not acknowledge by the society. Namely, immigrants suffer status collapse though moving up the economic ladder. Thus, this circumstance results in anxiety but also “a drive and jaw-dropping accomplishment.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triple_Package#Impulse_control

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  50. FKA Max says:
    @map
    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It's an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It's a joke.

    Could not possibly agree more!

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  51. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    What a gigantic long term disaster Asian mass immigration has been for Americans whose children must compete with these test jockeys.

    The gatekeepers at the top universities who are limiting the Asian enrollment are absolutely correct to do so. Asian domination of the campus does not increase the intellectual prestige of the school. That is where the rubber meets the road.

    My impression us that if you are smart, the more you prepare for the SAT math test, the higher your score will be. Familiarity with the various types of questions that are often asked and the ways in which the questions and answers can be tricky, can help a person do much better on them. I would think this would give Asians, with their well-known study habits, a definite advantage on the math SATs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    The SAT is supposed to predict how well you do in college. Being smart and well prepared gives you an advantage on EVERYTHING you do, including college work, not just the SAT.
    , @Stan Adams
    Well, let's see how I stack up.

    I'm a white non-Hispanic male in my 30s.

    I was the laziest slacker student you could imagine. (It's a character flaw - I have no ambition, no drive, no hunger, no competitive spirit. I have no need for external validation. Even my libido is low-key. My ideal life is one where everyone leaves me alone to wallow in my sperginess.)

    In high school, I never took any accelerated courses, aside from AP Lit and Lang. I scored 5 on both exams.

    I did absolutely no SAT test prep. Never even looked at the book that my mother got me. Took the test only once, totally cold, early in my senior year.

    On the early-2000s SAT, I got 800 verbal, 660 math. (Embarrassingly low math score, yes.) I applied to a non-elite university and did my four years. (I was legacy, so there you go.) As a total slacker, I graduated cum laude with two BS liberal-arts majors. Big waste of time and money. But my mother and my grandmother kept telling me that "you have to get a degree - any degree," and it wasn't as if I had any burning desire to do anything else, so I dutifully followed their orders. I drifted for a long time after graduation.

    How much money do I make now? That, Winston, you shall never know. (Take note of the fact that I'm not bragging.)

    I'm sure there are people around here who were as lazy as I was and easily scored 1600 on the pre-1995 SAT. (Certainly there are a hell of a lot of people here who took the SAT cold and did much better on the math part.) I know I'm not as smart as those folks. But I am smart enough to get most of what I want out of life, most of the time, and that's enough for me.

    If I'd been more disciplined and motivated, would I be a shining exemplar of the white race? You tell me. More than I am now, I guess.

    About ten years ago, I desperately needed to convince myself that I wasn't a dumb failure, so I went ahead and memorized the calendar. That skill fit in nicely with my spergy interests, and it gave me a nice little ego boost.

    But anyway...
  52. @XYZ
    Are there any charts that show distribution of scores within an ethnic group? Am I reading this wrong that the 450 - 500 ethnic group scores are roughly equivalent to their percentage of test takers (but for the Asians)?

    Percentage comparison within the same group across all scores would be very interesting.

    At every point it appears the Asian (-American I hope) students are MUCH better based on percentage of test takers. But the white test takers seem only slightly better than average (which is probable).
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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Notice that over 100,000 more females than males are now taking the SAT.
    , @XYZ
    Thanks. Very informative. The % of math scores above 700 for Asians is quite stunning -- no other groups come remotely close. I'm not Asian and don't know anything about genetics, just very interesting data.
  53. Jack D says:
    @map
    They are not taking over these niches because they under-perform their test scores in the real world. Top universities track their students because they want to invest in future donors, not future middle managers. Asians end up not doing as well as their credentials would indicate.

    Is $20 million enough?

    http://www.philly.com/philly/health/Main-Line-couple-gives-millions-to-MIT-for-autism-research.html

    Really tragic that 2 such brilliant people should have not 1 but 2 autistic children (one normal). I wonder whether it is one of those things where 1 copy of a certain gene is good (for intelligence) but 2 are bad (make you autistic)?

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  54. @Yan Shen
    Having articulated in earlier threads both the essence of Sailerism, and the fundamental theorems of white nationalism and cognitive elitism, let me formulate another sociological thesis, which I call the fundamental theorem of anti-PC/multiculturalism.

    If the current PC insanity in the West ever subsides and reverses, it will in large part be due to the East Asian example... (See for example some of the comments at the NYT in response to the article linked to above.)

    Odi et amo.

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  55. I teach at an academically selective school in Sydney, Australia. It’s open to anyone via a competitive entry exam.
    The school is 82% Chinese, 10% white, 8% Indian/Korean.
    We had 1 black student two years ago- he was a brilliant and hardworking boy – from Nigeria.

    Basically, the asian/Indian kids far outwork the whites kids (on average).

    I assume the white kids in the US outwork the black kids (on average)?

    What about intelligence? Who cares?!
    As Kasparov said, “Hard work is also a talent.”

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    • Replies: @G Pinfold
    I think you are showing a lack of empathy that is common among people in the 125 plus IQ spectrum. It's something of a paradox that smart people cannot really imagine life with foggy cognitive instruments.
  56. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    14 vs 5.6 - school age pop vs general pop, regional concentration (SAT is a coastal thing, ACT in the middle where there are few Asians). A greater % of Asians on a college track.

    Still doesn't explain how/why 14% of the test takers are getting 60% of the scores from 750 to 800%. If Asians are only 5.6% rather than 14% then they are even MORE over-represented.

    14 vs 5.6 – school age pop vs general pop, regional concentration (SAT is a coastal thing, ACT in the middle where there are few Asians). A greater % of Asians on a college track.

    This doesn’t explain the disparity. Asians are only 10% in even California which has the highest Asian proportion. Also, they don’t have more kids than whites or latinos. The 14% is a sampling problem. It is likely due to counting the same test takers more the once if they took the test more than once. You cannot assume that this sample is a representative one. This wasn’t a scientifically done study. This was Brookings taking raw, anonymized College Board data.

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  57. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Quantity has its own quality. In 1972, 60% of the 750-800 group was NOT Oriental.

    Actually, if you gave the 1972 test today, MORE than 60% of the 750+ group would be Asian because the test was harder.

    BTW, something is very fishy about the 750-800 group for blacks and Hispanics - there are even more in that group than there are in the 700-750 group. That makes no sense statistically. This happens for Asians because of the ceiling effect but I doubt there is much ceiling effect for NAMs - even for whites there is a pronounced dropoff. The only way it makes sense is if the black and Hispanic groups are not really one group each, but a group of "regular" blacks and Hispanics and a group of much smarter "faux" blacks and Hispanics. The other possibility is that they are somehow fudging or lying about the number.

    Trump is really living rent free in the head of Leftists - somehow you have to make every article about Trump. It looked to me as if Edsall had written an article about SATs and then the NY Times asked him if he could change the theme to "Trump is Wrong". All NY Times editorials (and half of the news articles) nowadays are on the them, "Trump is Wrong About X" or "Trump is Lying About X" or "How Trump Broke the Law on X."

    There’s something new in the liberal mindset in this generation. When I was a kid, people really didn’t pay a lot of attention to presidents. This began to change with GW Bush. Liberals became obsessed with him with a hate-filled, stalker-like focus. Liberals then graduated to Obama, and gaga-googooed over him constantly in a way that’s excessive even for a star-struck celebrity hunter. Liberals never shut up about him. Now the liberals have flipped into frothing stalker-mode again and their target is Trump. I sure don’t remember Ford, Carter, Bush I, or Bill Clinton getting anywhere near as much attention from the public while they were in office. Reagan stirred liberal ire, but liberals didn’t talk about him 24/7 and managed to ignore him plenty of times in his 8 years as president.

    The stalker comparison is one I haven’t picked at random. Liberals really have turned into stalkers. Psychiatrists will tell you stalkers are inadequate personalities, and broken families and modern society are creating far too many of them.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    They hated Nixon - utterly loathed him. They destroyed him, drove him from office. The animosity was personal and bitter.

    Shrillary cut her teeth working on one of the Watergate committees.
  58. Jack D says:
    @Triumph104
    2015 scores:

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    Notice that over 100,000 more females than males are now taking the SAT.

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  59. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    My impression us that if you are smart, the more you prepare for the SAT math test, the higher your score will be. Familiarity with the various types of questions that are often asked and the ways in which the questions and answers can be tricky, can help a person do much better on them. I would think this would give Asians, with their well-known study habits, a definite advantage on the math SATs.

    The SAT is supposed to predict how well you do in college. Being smart and well prepared gives you an advantage on EVERYTHING you do, including college work, not just the SAT.

    Read More
  60. @Yak-15
    I work in a very particular niche - trading of financial instruments. It is among the most congnitively demanding fields of work. With potential for unlimited financial gain, trading attracts graduates from top universities and brilliant people from around the world. It even employs many PHDs from sciences and maths. But it's incredibly challenging and many who try the career fail. Since trading is done electronically, it is the ultimate meritocracy since nobody knows who he/she is trading with and racial/sexual/etc discrimination is impossible.

    I have worked at three firms now over a decade and a half and each has been filled with loads of whites and Asians. But almost zero blacks and Hispanics. And very few women.

    Why is that??? Is it possibly related to these tests? Could it possibly be related to g?

    It's fascinating because in this field I have worked with some extreme liberals who I would freely debate the merits of HBD hypothesis and evidence. Even in the yellow/white world around them at work, they still could not accept that there may be extreme differences in racial group intelligence. Modern progressive leftism is truly a religion that will always try to disregard the science no matter how much evidence builds up.

    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn’t true – and they do – we should be able to profit from it. Why can’t we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don’t actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I’d appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    There's the "white guilt" package which apparently is great at making money off them. I think Nigerian scammers should begin to pretend to need intersex ops as well.
    , @AnotherDad


    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn’t true – and they do – we should be able to profit from it. Why can’t we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don’t actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I’d appreciate other thoughts on the subject.
     
    Of course, they don't live the way they talk. But, of course, that's not "racist". The decisions they make are about "neighborhood" and "good schools".

    The folks who make money off them are various leftist charities and activists groups--unfortunately staffed by more leftists. There's a bit of self-parasitism. Dwarfed of course by the parasitism they inflict on the rest of us through taxation, government policies and--most seriously--immigration.

    There is to be money made off what they doing, but it's a very long game. You have to short the US and the West generally. But again it's a long long game because the damage the left is doing rolls out over generations.
    , @biz

    Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?
     
    There was a company called Working Assets that did this a while back. I don't know if they are still around though. The premise was that they charged a lot for a substandard product - they had a credit card, a long distance plan, and I don't know what else - and then donated some of the money to "liberal"* causes.

    Also there is currently a scam promoted via social media where white women can pay $100 I think a month to get an e-mail blast supposedly from their sisters of color reminding them of the ways they can become 'allies' and 'woke.' Seriously it exists, look it up. I don't know how many takers there have actually been though.

    So yeah, my point is it's been figured out.

    *Liberal is in quotes there because I'm sure as time went on some of the money went to illiberal things like defending the right of cultures to keep women in burkas.
    , @King Baeksu

    Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?
     
    Try shorting the stock of companies that indulge in SJW-type virtue-signalling nonsense. Pissing off half of the American populace does not seem like a particularly savvy business move, but I suspect that throughout 2017 and 2018 during the lead-up to the midterm elections, a lot of companies are going to be shooting themselves in the foot by vainly mixing politics and commerce. Starbucks, for example, lost 2% after announcing that it would hire 10,000 refugees in the wake of Trump's travel-ban controversy. Could just be a coincidence, but my gut feeling tells me otherwise.
    , @EdwardM
    Perhaps Arianna Huffington was ahead of the curve on this, morphing from a conservative pundit -- a good one -- to start the ultimate SWPL organ, the Huffington Post, then sold it to a hapless corporation for very good money.

    I don't know what her core principles are, if any, but I don't begrudge her entrepreneurial success.
  61. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer
    The graph in the NY Times is based on the same data as presented in the article by those two clowns at Brookings who found many weasel words to describe the performance of blacks in the 750-800 range. Remember the phrase "at most 1000" blacks above 750? Well, apparently, somehow that becomes the official number for the graph. Such a surprise, you know. One set of hacks puts out some deliberately misleading prose and another set of hacks plays telephone and acts as if the claim is the literal and gospel truth.

    And while the Times quotes the sentence about "at most 1000", it of course doesn't quote the following sentence, which at least attempts to put some scientific lipstick on the pig of "at most 1000".

    I think there are two things going on there: 1.Just plain lyin’ (or “conservative” assumptions) where 200 becomes “at most 1,000″ as you say and 2. “African Americans” who aren’t in the usual sense – either they are Adam Clayton Powell IV type AAs with <12% African heritage and at least 1 fully white parent (and usually a mulatto 2nd parent), or else they are 100% African Igbos who aren't really American.

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  62. Hunsdon says:
    @Yan Shen
    Having articulated in earlier threads both the essence of Sailerism, and the fundamental theorems of white nationalism and cognitive elitism, let me formulate another sociological thesis, which I call the fundamental theorem of anti-PC/multiculturalism.

    If the current PC insanity in the West ever subsides and reverses, it will in large part be due to the East Asian example... (See for example some of the comments at the NYT in response to the article linked to above.)

    And on the seventh day, Yan Shen rested.

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  63. MBlanc46 says:

    Pique their interest as scientists? Scientists? Neo-Stalinist ideologues is a more accurate descriptor.

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  64. @map
    Not to mention cheating. After all, don't we see that in all of the Westinghouse competitions?

    Tell me, how is it possible for these people to be good at something that they never invented on their own?

    Actually, we invented the written exam. And we’re pretty consistently higher in every other academic category as well as income.

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    • Replies: @map
    And the US will gift the Chinese government with your skills and talents. I am sure your brethren, or that of any other Asian country, will gladly welcome all that you have to offer for the glory of the Chinese, or any Asian, empire...physically, on Chinese, or Asian, soil.

    I don't say this with any particular animus toward Asians or other people. This is just the wave of nationalism sweeping across the globe. It is as inevitable as the tides.

    After all, where do you thing these nations come from?
  65. @map
    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It's an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It's a joke.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    Not sure if sarcastic, but China actually has been developing along some lines of technology in a faster and, I would say, innovative way. For example, China is seriously tackling freight transport with drones, while the US is still struggling alone.

    I’ll say that in a dozen years or so, you’ll see China actually take leadership in a number of technological fields.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It’s a joke.

    That has as much to do with science turning into a really dumb “publish or perish” mentality where the ability to rush out as many self-justifying papers as possible has become dominant.

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  66. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can't we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn't true - and they do - we should be able to profit from it. Why can't we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don't actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I'd appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

    There’s the “white guilt” package which apparently is great at making money off them. I think Nigerian scammers should begin to pretend to need intersex ops as well.

    Read More
  67. wakeup says:
    @FKA Max

    Quantity has its own quality.
     
    Has anybody noticed this yet?

    Overall these test-takers were 14 percent Asian, 51 percent White, 21 percent Latino and 14 percent black.

    Would it be reasonable to assume, that there would be a higher percentage of non-Hispanic White 750-800 scores if non-Hispanic Whites were represented at their current/actual percentage of the population: 62 percent?

    Nobody seems to have factored this in or pointed this out so far - that I am aware of - that Asians are currently about 5.6 percent of the population, but 14 percent of the test-takers.

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    SAT test is not compulsory. Those not taking the test is already a self selected group that most probably wont even be in the mid range performance group. Adding them will decrease the high end percent further.

    Read More
    • Replies: @wakeup
    https://www.texastribune.org/2012/09/24/texas-sat-scores-drop-participation-rates-surge/

    More students are taking the college admissions test — especially Hispanics and blacks, whose participation rates have increased by 65 and 42 percent, respectively, since 2007. Students' scores, though, decreased from 2o11 by about 5 points across the board in reading, math and writing, continuing the downward trend of the past five years.
  68. @Anon
    There's something new in the liberal mindset in this generation. When I was a kid, people really didn't pay a lot of attention to presidents. This began to change with GW Bush. Liberals became obsessed with him with a hate-filled, stalker-like focus. Liberals then graduated to Obama, and gaga-googooed over him constantly in a way that's excessive even for a star-struck celebrity hunter. Liberals never shut up about him. Now the liberals have flipped into frothing stalker-mode again and their target is Trump. I sure don't remember Ford, Carter, Bush I, or Bill Clinton getting anywhere near as much attention from the public while they were in office. Reagan stirred liberal ire, but liberals didn't talk about him 24/7 and managed to ignore him plenty of times in his 8 years as president.

    The stalker comparison is one I haven't picked at random. Liberals really have turned into stalkers. Psychiatrists will tell you stalkers are inadequate personalities, and broken families and modern society are creating far too many of them.

    They hated Nixon – utterly loathed him. They destroyed him, drove him from office. The animosity was personal and bitter.

    Shrillary cut her teeth working on one of the Watergate committees.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    HRC also got thrown off the Watergate committee for unethical behavior.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/was-hillary-clinton-fired-nixon-impeachment-inquiry
  69. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @map
    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It's an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It's a joke.

    You’d think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn’t happened. They’ve stagnated as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I suspect the low-hanging fruits of science have already all been exploited.
    , @FKA Max
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    According to this Bloomberg Innovation Index, two European countries are ahead of the U.S.: Germany and Finland. The U.S. is in 6th place.

    In the Top 10, you have 5 European countries: Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), Sweden(7th), France(9th), United Kingdom(10th).

    3 Asian countries: Korea (1st), Japan(2nd), Singapore(8th) (all of whom have strong ties with the West).

    Israel in 5th place.

    In the Top 20 there are eleven (11) European countries, three (3) Asian countries, and five (5) Anglosphere countries.

    Russia(14th) and Israel(5th) are the two other countries also in the Top 20.

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations (includes Anglosphere (USA(6th), UK(10th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), New Zealand(18th)).

    I still do not want the Hispanic and Black populations in the U.S. to grow, because it is not good for the traditionally Northern European/Protestant culture and innovativeness of the country. This is why I support Planned Parenthood, want immigration to stop, and oppose amnesty, birthright citizenship and the Catholic Church [ http://www.population-security.org/ ], etc.
    But, I think, qualitatively, Chinese immigrants are far more dangerous and can do a lot more damage and harm to the U.S., e.g., industrial and military espionage, takeover of higher education institutions, etc., than African Americans or Hispanics could ever do, because of their higher IQs.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013
  70. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Relocating massive numbers of Asian immigrants to American 'magic dirt' hasn't made Asians more creative. That is why they are not taking over prized math related niches like Wall Street even though they have the best math scores.

    There’s very little math involved in most Wall St. and finance jobs beyond arithmetic and basic algebra. Social skills and even things like height are much more important.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-goldman-gary-cohn-got-to-wall-street-2015-5

    “And then literally right after the market’s (sic) closed, I see this pretty well-dressed guy running off the floor, yelling to his clerk, ‘I’ve got to go, I’m running to LaGuardia, I’m late, I’ll call you when I get to the airport,’” Cohn told Gladwell in the book. “I jump in the elevator, and say, ‘I hear you’re going to LaGuardia.’ He says, ‘Yeah,’ I say, ‘Can we share a cab?’ He says, ‘Sure.’ I think this is awesome. With Friday afternoon traffic, I can spend the next hour in the taxi getting a job.”

    It was truly a brilliant move, one most people wouldn’t have the guts to make.

    It turned out the man Cohn was sharing the cab with was also running the options business for one of the big brokerage firms. Cohn didn’t know what an option was, but he pretended as if he did.

    “I lied to him all the way to the airport,” Cohn told Gladwell. “When he said, ‘Do you know what an option is?’ I said, ‘Of course I do, I know everything, I can do anything for you.’ Basically by the time we got out of the taxi, I had his number. He said, ‘Call me Monday.’ I called him Monday, flew back to New York Tuesday or Wednesday, had an interview, and started working the next Monday. In that period of time, I read McMillan’s “Options as a Strategic Investment”book. It’s like the Bible of options trading.”

    (By the way, Gladwell notes, it still takes Cohn about six hours to read 22 pages.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @European-American
    That anecdote reminds me yet again that lying and bullshitting are essential tools for success in business.

    Trump's brand of constant outright lying and bullshitting is shocking to see in his position as leader of the country, but is familiar to anyone who has dealt with leaders in business.

    It's different in nature and appearance from the kind of lying and bullshitting used in politics, the media, and academia, so it's very jarring.

    (Sorry to bring it back to Trump... I really have Trump on the brain... But it's so interesting...)
    , @prole
    So true. I worked on Wall Street for 22 years, 12 years at Goldman Sachs....not one of the managing directors and partners who managed me had a STEM degree, but they were excellent communicates and managers , very articulate and knew how to navigate office politics, in fact they spent 75% of their day positioning themselves politically within the firm....getting ahead was less a function of producing results than gaining political allies and working to destroy the careers of those who were a threat to themselves.
  71. @map
    This is wonderful.

    What a gift to give to Asia then all of these brilliant, American-educated Asians who will surely lift the Asian world to Gods among men.

    I have stated this before. All we are seeing is over-performance by a bunch of grinds who have spent most of their high school years preparing for the SAT. So what? Where has this outsized performance really benefited the United States? All of these grinds have migrated into STEM fields, and the result is STEM is stagnant, with little to no innovation. It's an utter disaster fueled by these people.

    Between 1973 and the present, compare the technological innovations of our period to the one between 1973 and 1929. There is no comparison. Scientific and technical innovation in that earlier period re-made the world. Now we celebrate USB ports. It's a joke.

    Yes.

    The telegraph was the key invention that led to the modern world – it was the forerunner of telephony, radio (and television), and, eventually, the Internet.

    There is nothing that we have now that could not have been foreseen by a sufficiently knowledgeable and forward-thinking person in 1973. Indeed, those on the cutting edge in 1929 could have anticipated many if not most of the technologies that we now enjoy. Even someone living in 1873 might have been able to have an inkling of things to come.

    But someone living in 1829 wouldn’t have had the conceptual framework to understand many of the devices that we take for granted. How do you explain the idea of watching YouTube clips on your iPhone to someone who’s never seen a photograph or watched a movie, or even heard of a telephone?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    For example, the fax machine existed in crude form in the 19th Century.
  72. wakeup says:
    @wakeup
    SAT test is not compulsory. Those not taking the test is already a self selected group that most probably wont even be in the mid range performance group. Adding them will decrease the high end percent further.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2012/09/24/texas-sat-scores-drop-participation-rates-surge/

    More students are taking the college admissions test — especially Hispanics and blacks, whose participation rates have increased by 65 and 42 percent, respectively, since 2007. Students’ scores, though, decreased from 2o11 by about 5 points across the board in reading, math and writing, continuing the downward trend of the past five years.

    Read More
  73. @Stan Adams
    Yes.

    The telegraph was the key invention that led to the modern world - it was the forerunner of telephony, radio (and television), and, eventually, the Internet.

    There is nothing that we have now that could not have been foreseen by a sufficiently knowledgeable and forward-thinking person in 1973. Indeed, those on the cutting edge in 1929 could have anticipated many if not most of the technologies that we now enjoy. Even someone living in 1873 might have been able to have an inkling of things to come.

    But someone living in 1829 wouldn't have had the conceptual framework to understand many of the devices that we take for granted. How do you explain the idea of watching YouTube clips on your iPhone to someone who's never seen a photograph or watched a movie, or even heard of a telephone?

    For example, the fax machine existed in crude form in the 19th Century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Yes.

    Once the basic concept that one type of data could be transmitted instantaneously between distant locales had been established, then it was only a matter of time before extrapolations of that method were developed to transmit other types of data.

    Conceptually, folks who lived in the nineteenth century probably regarded the telegraph as an extrapolation of the mail service. The concept of transmitting information over vast distances was not new, but the rapidity with which one could send and receive telegraphs must have seemed amazing.

    Is there a single potential invention or discovery that a reasonably-intelligent person living in 2016 lacks the ability to imagine? I doubt it. Anyone who's watched a few episodes of Star Trek can conceive of such fantastic devices as warp drives, transporters, replicators, and the like. Even Joe Six-Pack has heard of nanotechnology, bioengineering, and other once-esoteric concepts.
  74. G Pinfold says:
    @Helen Hughes
    I teach at an academically selective school in Sydney, Australia. It's open to anyone via a competitive entry exam.
    The school is 82% Chinese, 10% white, 8% Indian/Korean.
    We had 1 black student two years ago- he was a brilliant and hardworking boy - from Nigeria.

    Basically, the asian/Indian kids far outwork the whites kids (on average).

    I assume the white kids in the US outwork the black kids (on average)?

    What about intelligence? Who cares?!
    As Kasparov said, "Hard work is also a talent."

    I think you are showing a lack of empathy that is common among people in the 125 plus IQ spectrum. It’s something of a paradox that smart people cannot really imagine life with foggy cognitive instruments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think you are reading her wrong - she didn't say outsmart, she said outwork. In Asian culture, if you don't understand something in school, it's not because you're dumb but because you're not trying hard enough. Maybe if you do 10 more of the same type of problem, you'll get it eventually.
  75. jim jones says:
    @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    My attempt to open up Tom Edsall's NYT oped piece was blocked by the pay wall. I refuse to give my few shekels to the PC oligarch. Just as well, as I already read more than enough NYT-derived gobbledygook.

    There is no paywall here in the UK. If you have a VPN set the location to Britain.

    Read More
  76. XYZ says:
    @Triumph104
    2015 scores:

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    Thanks. Very informative. The % of math scores above 700 for Asians is quite stunning — no other groups come remotely close. I’m not Asian and don’t know anything about genetics, just very interesting data.

    Read More
  77. @Steve Sailer
    For example, the fax machine existed in crude form in the 19th Century.

    Yes.

    Once the basic concept that one type of data could be transmitted instantaneously between distant locales had been established, then it was only a matter of time before extrapolations of that method were developed to transmit other types of data.

    Conceptually, folks who lived in the nineteenth century probably regarded the telegraph as an extrapolation of the mail service. The concept of transmitting information over vast distances was not new, but the rapidity with which one could send and receive telegraphs must have seemed amazing.

    Is there a single potential invention or discovery that a reasonably-intelligent person living in 2016 lacks the ability to imagine? I doubt it. Anyone who’s watched a few episodes of Star Trek can conceive of such fantastic devices as warp drives, transporters, replicators, and the like. Even Joe Six-Pack has heard of nanotechnology, bioengineering, and other once-esoteric concepts.

    Read More
  78. Jack D says:
    @G Pinfold
    I think you are showing a lack of empathy that is common among people in the 125 plus IQ spectrum. It's something of a paradox that smart people cannot really imagine life with foggy cognitive instruments.

    I think you are reading her wrong – she didn’t say outsmart, she said outwork. In Asian culture, if you don’t understand something in school, it’s not because you’re dumb but because you’re not trying hard enough. Maybe if you do 10 more of the same type of problem, you’ll get it eventually.

    Read More
  79. G Pinfold says:

    Jack. I get that, but Helen is talking about gifted mental athletes training harder to beat each other. The source article was really about The Others, the ones who will never come within a country mile of a selective school. I had the experience you described with math, although I often baled balefully too soon. Yet I scored in the 99th percentile on the verbal GMAT without cramming, prepping, grinding or even having an early night… So I am open minded enough to believe that mathematics is just easy to some people, and easier to some groups of people (on average).
    Key point: some people (and groups on average) are thicker than others and that explains a lot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Correct, but the original point remains: hard work is a talent and is can be utilized everywhere else in life as well. I scored a perfect score in the SAT, and I absolutely grinded for it - but I was able to use the same skills later on for my math and verbal skills.

    I've since been able to be successful and make it into upper management in a multinational corporation, one of the few Chinese to do so. But I still don't have a vast inclination or interest in social skills; I have enough to be useful, as a trained skill, but almost zero native interest in it.

    I imagine that it extends that ultimately my department is by far the most productive by a ridiculous margin, but I doubt that I'm particularly memorable or loved by my people.
  80. @Mark Eugenikos
    The distribution of White/Asian kids in the top segment (750-800) of about 1:2 very closely matches the distribution of the same kids in my son's 3rd grade gifted program here in WA state. No Blacks or Latinos, but then not enough many of those live here to even show up. The cutoff for the gifted program in our school district is about top 2% on standardized test, depending on the number of spaces they have available.

    Among Asian kids (Chinese & Indian, more Chinese than Indian) there are both boys and girls. There are White boys, but no White girls. Several kids are mixed (White/Asian, Asian/Asian).

    Among Asian kids (Chinese & Indian, more Chinese than Indian) there are both boys and girls. There are White boys, but no White girls

    That’s why I dated the Oriental girls in school: Smart white American girls have contempt for hard work and learning. They’d rather use their innate verbal skills to be good lawyers and marketers than study hard and learn to build anything.

    (My SAT verbal was significantly higher than my math, but you don’t create value in the twenty-first century with verbal fluency; you have to make things and that requires math.)

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  81. @Anonymous
    There's very little math involved in most Wall St. and finance jobs beyond arithmetic and basic algebra. Social skills and even things like height are much more important.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-goldman-gary-cohn-got-to-wall-street-2015-5

    "And then literally right after the market's (sic) closed, I see this pretty well-dressed guy running off the floor, yelling to his clerk, 'I've got to go, I'm running to LaGuardia, I'm late, I'll call you when I get to the airport,'" Cohn told Gladwell in the book. "I jump in the elevator, and say, 'I hear you're going to LaGuardia.' He says, 'Yeah,' I say, 'Can we share a cab?' He says, 'Sure.' I think this is awesome. With Friday afternoon traffic, I can spend the next hour in the taxi getting a job."

    It was truly a brilliant move, one most people wouldn't have the guts to make.

    It turned out the man Cohn was sharing the cab with was also running the options business for one of the big brokerage firms. Cohn didn't know what an option was, but he pretended as if he did.

    "I lied to him all the way to the airport," Cohn told Gladwell. "When he said, 'Do you know what an option is?' I said, 'Of course I do, I know everything, I can do anything for you.' Basically by the time we got out of the taxi, I had his number. He said, 'Call me Monday.' I called him Monday, flew back to New York Tuesday or Wednesday, had an interview, and started working the next Monday. In that period of time, I read McMillan's "Options as a Strategic Investment"book. It's like the Bible of options trading."

    (By the way, Gladwell notes, it still takes Cohn about six hours to read 22 pages.)
     

    That anecdote reminds me yet again that lying and bullshitting are essential tools for success in business.

    Trump’s brand of constant outright lying and bullshitting is shocking to see in his position as leader of the country, but is familiar to anyone who has dealt with leaders in business.

    It’s different in nature and appearance from the kind of lying and bullshitting used in politics, the media, and academia, so it’s very jarring.

    (Sorry to bring it back to Trump… I really have Trump on the brain… But it’s so interesting…)

    Read More
  82. Olorin says:
    @Yan Shen
    Having articulated in earlier threads both the essence of Sailerism, and the fundamental theorems of white nationalism and cognitive elitism, let me formulate another sociological thesis, which I call the fundamental theorem of anti-PC/multiculturalism.

    If the current PC insanity in the West ever subsides and reverses, it will in large part be due to the East Asian example... (See for example some of the comments at the NYT in response to the article linked to above.)

    Here in Pugetopolis among the most PC people I encounter is an enormous dollop of “East Asian” SJWs playing the race and victimization cards.

    The non-PC people are small business, trades, and infrastructure whites, Mexicans, and Filipinos. You can bet they don’t read the NYT.

    I’d think someone trailerhitching on brags about Asian math scores would know the difference between a “thesis” and a “theorem,” by the way.

    Though it isn’t surprising that all those coached and/or cheated SAT math scores don’t signal advanced understanding that many NYT comments are written by a) their own staffers and b) people outside the Grey Hag, variously remunerated for eructating the party line.

    Read More
  83. @Anonymous
    Look at the sample. It is 14% asian. This isn't a representative sample. It likely didn't account for people who retook the test. This reminds me, we need to go back to a g-loaded admissions test. Of course the SAT still correlates with IQ around the median, but it isn't a good test for the highly gifted, who should be going to the best schools. The GMAT has a fantastic format and tests all the skills the SAT does but does it in a g-loaded way that benefits high IQ individuals. Asians do have higher spatial IQs than whites, but they over perform on tests like the SAT for cultural reasons. The irony here is that the SAT moved away from being g-loaded because of Politically Correct concerns. The problem is that blacks don't study either, so they actually perform slightly worse now than when the SAT was g-loaded.

    If Asians do have higher spatial IQs than whites, then why are they such bad drivers?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    To the extent that "Asians" are actually worse drivers than the average American, it's largely if not entirely a function of the roots of automobile culture in their countries. Not only did the average American grow up in a car-centric culture, so did their parents and grandparents. Many Americans are fifth and sixth generation drivers.

    If you were to take a time machine back in time one hundred years in the US, your cute panties would be full of doo-doo in very short order, since car culture was very new and people didn't really know what they were doing.

    Japan is a country chock full of "Asians" who tend to be excellent drivers. This is because car culture has deep roots there, even if less deep than ours.

    China, on the other hand, is a completely different story. I'm a kid compared to Sailer and a lot of the commenters here but I'm old enough to remember when China was known in large part for its swarms of bicycles.

  84. @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    My attempt to open up Tom Edsall's NYT oped piece was blocked by the pay wall. I refuse to give my few shekels to the PC oligarch. Just as well, as I already read more than enough NYT-derived gobbledygook.

    If you browse using a private window or tab, you get around most paywalls that allow you to read a certain number of articles for free. I use firefox or brave, and both have that option if you click on the top right.

    Read More
  85. bomag says:
    @Yan Shen
    Having articulated in earlier threads both the essence of Sailerism, and the fundamental theorems of white nationalism and cognitive elitism, let me formulate another sociological thesis, which I call the fundamental theorem of anti-PC/multiculturalism.

    If the current PC insanity in the West ever subsides and reverses, it will in large part be due to the East Asian example... (See for example some of the comments at the NYT in response to the article linked to above.)

    The East Asian is your future God, and Yan Shen is his prophet.

    Read More
  86. RW says:
    @Yak-15
    I work in a very particular niche - trading of financial instruments. It is among the most congnitively demanding fields of work. With potential for unlimited financial gain, trading attracts graduates from top universities and brilliant people from around the world. It even employs many PHDs from sciences and maths. But it's incredibly challenging and many who try the career fail. Since trading is done electronically, it is the ultimate meritocracy since nobody knows who he/she is trading with and racial/sexual/etc discrimination is impossible.

    I have worked at three firms now over a decade and a half and each has been filled with loads of whites and Asians. But almost zero blacks and Hispanics. And very few women.

    Why is that??? Is it possibly related to these tests? Could it possibly be related to g?

    It's fascinating because in this field I have worked with some extreme liberals who I would freely debate the merits of HBD hypothesis and evidence. Even in the yellow/white world around them at work, they still could not accept that there may be extreme differences in racial group intelligence. Modern progressive leftism is truly a religion that will always try to disregard the science no matter how much evidence builds up.

    How many of those Asians you’ve worked with are immigrants or children of immigrants? There has been a strong selection effect over the last three or four decades for Asian immigrants to the USA with strong quant skills. East-Asians and Indians are probably not as impressive in math in their home countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yak-15
    In my experience the Asian cohort has been exclusively immigrant Asians as traders and programmers. East Asians in particular. Imported Indian programmers make their appearance here and there but it's mostly whites and then East Asians doing programming work. There are also a handful of sub-continent types who are US natives in the business but not many.

    It is somewhat odd when I think about the mostly male field I work in that is populated nearly exclusively by whites (a good number of Jews) and East Asians. I don't think many others work in a similar environment.

    I imagine it's not much longer before the ACLU figures out that there are almost no NAMs and women in the field. I can see some of the bigger principal trading firms being open to lawsuit in the near future. If I were a young lawyer trying to make a name for myself I would be hunting these firms.

    Though I will add the few NAMs I have seen in the industry did not cut it. They lose money and make it hard not to get rid of them.

  87. AndrewR says:
    @anonymouth
    If Asians do have higher spatial IQs than whites, then why are they such bad drivers?

    To the extent that “Asians” are actually worse drivers than the average American, it’s largely if not entirely a function of the roots of automobile culture in their countries. Not only did the average American grow up in a car-centric culture, so did their parents and grandparents. Many Americans are fifth and sixth generation drivers.

    If you were to take a time machine back in time one hundred years in the US, your cute panties would be full of doo-doo in very short order, since car culture was very new and people didn’t really know what they were doing.

    Japan is a country chock full of “Asians” who tend to be excellent drivers. This is because car culture has deep roots there, even if less deep than ours.

    China, on the other hand, is a completely different story. I’m a kid compared to Sailer and a lot of the commenters here but I’m old enough to remember when China was known in large part for its swarms of bicycles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rodolfo
    This is bullshit! Here in Brazil we have an immense japanese colony and japanese people do poorly compared to whites. Because driving is not just visual-spatial ability, but confidence, and confidence is not a strong attribute of Asians. By the way, Lippa et al, as well as the project Talent in the 60's have demonstrated that for pure visual-spatial abilities such as mental rotation, northern Europeans are superior to Asian !!
  88. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can't we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn't true - and they do - we should be able to profit from it. Why can't we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don't actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I'd appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn’t true – and they do – we should be able to profit from it. Why can’t we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don’t actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I’d appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

    Of course, they don’t live the way they talk. But, of course, that’s not “racist”. The decisions they make are about “neighborhood” and “good schools”.

    The folks who make money off them are various leftist charities and activists groups–unfortunately staffed by more leftists. There’s a bit of self-parasitism. Dwarfed of course by the parasitism they inflict on the rest of us through taxation, government policies and–most seriously–immigration.

    There is to be money made off what they doing, but it’s a very long game. You have to short the US and the West generally. But again it’s a long long game because the damage the left is doing rolls out over generations.

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  89. biz says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can't we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn't true - and they do - we should be able to profit from it. Why can't we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don't actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I'd appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

    Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    There was a company called Working Assets that did this a while back. I don’t know if they are still around though. The premise was that they charged a lot for a substandard product – they had a credit card, a long distance plan, and I don’t know what else – and then donated some of the money to “liberal”* causes.

    Also there is currently a scam promoted via social media where white women can pay $100 I think a month to get an e-mail blast supposedly from their sisters of color reminding them of the ways they can become ‘allies’ and ‘woke.’ Seriously it exists, look it up. I don’t know how many takers there have actually been though.

    So yeah, my point is it’s been figured out.

    *Liberal is in quotes there because I’m sure as time went on some of the money went to illiberal things like defending the right of cultures to keep women in burkas.

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  90. benjaminl says:

    IMHO it’s hard to top Ying Ma’s testimony as to what it is actually like for an Asian-American kid to experience the beautiful success of NAM integration:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/63432/ghetto-racism-ying-ma

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/90407/chinese-girl-ghetto-jamie-glazov

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  91. prole says:
    @Anonymous
    There's very little math involved in most Wall St. and finance jobs beyond arithmetic and basic algebra. Social skills and even things like height are much more important.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-goldman-gary-cohn-got-to-wall-street-2015-5

    "And then literally right after the market's (sic) closed, I see this pretty well-dressed guy running off the floor, yelling to his clerk, 'I've got to go, I'm running to LaGuardia, I'm late, I'll call you when I get to the airport,'" Cohn told Gladwell in the book. "I jump in the elevator, and say, 'I hear you're going to LaGuardia.' He says, 'Yeah,' I say, 'Can we share a cab?' He says, 'Sure.' I think this is awesome. With Friday afternoon traffic, I can spend the next hour in the taxi getting a job."

    It was truly a brilliant move, one most people wouldn't have the guts to make.

    It turned out the man Cohn was sharing the cab with was also running the options business for one of the big brokerage firms. Cohn didn't know what an option was, but he pretended as if he did.

    "I lied to him all the way to the airport," Cohn told Gladwell. "When he said, 'Do you know what an option is?' I said, 'Of course I do, I know everything, I can do anything for you.' Basically by the time we got out of the taxi, I had his number. He said, 'Call me Monday.' I called him Monday, flew back to New York Tuesday or Wednesday, had an interview, and started working the next Monday. In that period of time, I read McMillan's "Options as a Strategic Investment"book. It's like the Bible of options trading."

    (By the way, Gladwell notes, it still takes Cohn about six hours to read 22 pages.)
     

    So true. I worked on Wall Street for 22 years, 12 years at Goldman Sachs….not one of the managing directors and partners who managed me had a STEM degree, but they were excellent communicates and managers , very articulate and knew how to navigate office politics, in fact they spent 75% of their day positioning themselves politically within the firm….getting ahead was less a function of producing results than gaining political allies and working to destroy the careers of those who were a threat to themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Ditto. Been there, done that. I've always despised it with a fury, because those types basically killed the last company that I was in. For me, its painful, because their efforts are akin to being parasites which ultimately kill the host.

    Especially at a time and age when quantitative results are easily found, it seems remarkable if not insane that there are people who are willing to squander millions of profits in order to build up their little fiefdoms, and what feels like a general attention time span of 3 months.

    The amount of BS and waste that goes on at the top levels of Forbes 100 companies, I think, would stagger the imagination of most people. Even thinking about it hurts.

    Indeed, to add to the notion of doubt that the truly qualified are promoted - much of the time, management was far from anything but qualified in the fields that they were in. Its a game of taking credit and avoiding responsibility, and often of pure creative accounting, more than anything else.

    Its really tragic. There's intelligence involved, but the Force here is being used for evil, not good.

  92. @Anonymous
    You'd think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn't happened. They've stagnated as well.

    I suspect the low-hanging fruits of science have already all been exploited.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    It sure seems like it, but that conclusion has been wrong often enough in the past that I am reluctant to make it.

    And who knows what will happen as AI and/or genetically enhanced humans roll along.
  93. @G Pinfold
    Jack. I get that, but Helen is talking about gifted mental athletes training harder to beat each other. The source article was really about The Others, the ones who will never come within a country mile of a selective school. I had the experience you described with math, although I often baled balefully too soon. Yet I scored in the 99th percentile on the verbal GMAT without cramming, prepping, grinding or even having an early night... So I am open minded enough to believe that mathematics is just easy to some people, and easier to some groups of people (on average).
    Key point: some people (and groups on average) are thicker than others and that explains a lot.

    Correct, but the original point remains: hard work is a talent and is can be utilized everywhere else in life as well. I scored a perfect score in the SAT, and I absolutely grinded for it – but I was able to use the same skills later on for my math and verbal skills.

    I’ve since been able to be successful and make it into upper management in a multinational corporation, one of the few Chinese to do so. But I still don’t have a vast inclination or interest in social skills; I have enough to be useful, as a trained skill, but almost zero native interest in it.

    I imagine that it extends that ultimately my department is by far the most productive by a ridiculous margin, but I doubt that I’m particularly memorable or loved by my people.

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  94. @prole
    So true. I worked on Wall Street for 22 years, 12 years at Goldman Sachs....not one of the managing directors and partners who managed me had a STEM degree, but they were excellent communicates and managers , very articulate and knew how to navigate office politics, in fact they spent 75% of their day positioning themselves politically within the firm....getting ahead was less a function of producing results than gaining political allies and working to destroy the careers of those who were a threat to themselves.

    Ditto. Been there, done that. I’ve always despised it with a fury, because those types basically killed the last company that I was in. For me, its painful, because their efforts are akin to being parasites which ultimately kill the host.

    Especially at a time and age when quantitative results are easily found, it seems remarkable if not insane that there are people who are willing to squander millions of profits in order to build up their little fiefdoms, and what feels like a general attention time span of 3 months.

    The amount of BS and waste that goes on at the top levels of Forbes 100 companies, I think, would stagger the imagination of most people. Even thinking about it hurts.

    Indeed, to add to the notion of doubt that the truly qualified are promoted – much of the time, management was far from anything but qualified in the fields that they were in. Its a game of taking credit and avoiding responsibility, and often of pure creative accounting, more than anything else.

    Its really tragic. There’s intelligence involved, but the Force here is being used for evil, not good.

    Read More
  95. Yan Shen says:

    Steve, can I engage in a little bit of Robert Reich conspiracy theorizing here? The data was deliberately presented in terms of % of total students scoring above various thresholds as opposed to percentiles for each ethnic group scoring above certain thresholds in order to minimize the apparent degree of Asian American over-performance so as to better conform to the standard SJW narrative regarding NAMs. Of course judging by the comment section of the NYT article linked to above, it may not have worked out quite as well as they had hoped.

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  96. res says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I suspect the low-hanging fruits of science have already all been exploited.

    It sure seems like it, but that conclusion has been wrong often enough in the past that I am reluctant to make it.

    And who knows what will happen as AI and/or genetically enhanced humans roll along.

    Read More
  97. @Anonymous
    My impression us that if you are smart, the more you prepare for the SAT math test, the higher your score will be. Familiarity with the various types of questions that are often asked and the ways in which the questions and answers can be tricky, can help a person do much better on them. I would think this would give Asians, with their well-known study habits, a definite advantage on the math SATs.

    Well, let’s see how I stack up.

    I’m a white non-Hispanic male in my 30s.

    I was the laziest slacker student you could imagine. (It’s a character flaw – I have no ambition, no drive, no hunger, no competitive spirit. I have no need for external validation. Even my libido is low-key. My ideal life is one where everyone leaves me alone to wallow in my sperginess.)

    In high school, I never took any accelerated courses, aside from AP Lit and Lang. I scored 5 on both exams.

    I did absolutely no SAT test prep. Never even looked at the book that my mother got me. Took the test only once, totally cold, early in my senior year.

    On the early-2000s SAT, I got 800 verbal, 660 math. (Embarrassingly low math score, yes.) I applied to a non-elite university and did my four years. (I was legacy, so there you go.) As a total slacker, I graduated cum laude with two BS liberal-arts majors. Big waste of time and money. But my mother and my grandmother kept telling me that “you have to get a degree – any degree,” and it wasn’t as if I had any burning desire to do anything else, so I dutifully followed their orders. I drifted for a long time after graduation.

    How much money do I make now? That, Winston, you shall never know. (Take note of the fact that I’m not bragging.)

    I’m sure there are people around here who were as lazy as I was and easily scored 1600 on the pre-1995 SAT. (Certainly there are a hell of a lot of people here who took the SAT cold and did much better on the math part.) I know I’m not as smart as those folks. But I am smart enough to get most of what I want out of life, most of the time, and that’s enough for me.

    If I’d been more disciplined and motivated, would I be a shining exemplar of the white race? You tell me. More than I am now, I guess.

    About ten years ago, I desperately needed to convince myself that I wasn’t a dumb failure, so I went ahead and memorized the calendar. That skill fit in nicely with my spergy interests, and it gave me a nice little ego boost.

    But anyway…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dee
    No, there were very few 1600 SAT scores before the great recentering in 1995. You could count all of them in one year on the fingers of your hands and wouldn't need all ten most years.

    And this was out of 1.5 million+ that were taking the test. Since 1995 I've read they get 2,000 or more 1600, perfect scores. And you just know most of them would of never got more than 1350 back when the SAT was a real mother.
  98. @Autochthon
    He refers to private browsing; if I'm remembering the relevant corny branding correctly, he may he conflating the corny branding of Firefix with that of Safari. Anyhow, "open a new private window and try things then" is how I understand his advice. (I have none of my own under your circumstances. I despise Apple, Inc. and everything they stand for; my actual advice is that you stop using their products and subsidising the destruction of Western civilisation.)

    I do not use Apple anything. Their hardware is 50% overpriced and their software inflexible – do it Steve’s way because he knows best. That said, their ergonomics are excellent and very intuitive even for newbies.

    As far as private browsing goes, color me skeptical. I would not doubt that the NSA has back doors into everything; Google tracks you everywhere and does deep packet inspection; Tor was developed by the US Navy, etc. Computers are fast and storage is cheap. There is no online privacy. Google yourself sometime.

    Here is an article about a guy who tried to disappear 7 years ago: https://www.wired.com/2009/11/ff_vanish2/

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  99. @Stan Adams
    They hated Nixon - utterly loathed him. They destroyed him, drove him from office. The animosity was personal and bitter.

    Shrillary cut her teeth working on one of the Watergate committees.

    HRC also got thrown off the Watergate committee for unethical behavior.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/was-hillary-clinton-fired-nixon-impeachment-inquiry

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    She started out as a Goldwater girl. She even went through an Ayn Rand phase.

    ...

    Bill Clinton laughed. He stood naked at the edge of a hill. Whitewater lay far below him.

    Nearby, Hillary gargled. Over the weekend, she'd used up almost an entire jumbo bottle of Scope. And it was only Saturday morning.
  100. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @map
    They are not taking over these niches because they under-perform their test scores in the real world. Top universities track their students because they want to invest in future donors, not future middle managers. Asians end up not doing as well as their credentials would indicate.

    What about South Asians? If you measure real world performance by success in attaining upper management and other prominent roles and positions, they don’t seem to under-perform. They seem to be overrepresented in them. There are the CEOs of Microsoft, Google, Pepsi, one of the recent CEOs of Citibank, Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, NYC US attorney Preet Bharara, the new FCC chairman, the mayor of London, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @map
    Yes...and they all need to go back home.

    They come from sizeable south asian populations that are heavily subsidized bu Euro and American tax dollars. They need to go back.
  101. Yak-15 says:
    @RW
    How many of those Asians you've worked with are immigrants or children of immigrants? There has been a strong selection effect over the last three or four decades for Asian immigrants to the USA with strong quant skills. East-Asians and Indians are probably not as impressive in math in their home countries.

    In my experience the Asian cohort has been exclusively immigrant Asians as traders and programmers. East Asians in particular. Imported Indian programmers make their appearance here and there but it’s mostly whites and then East Asians doing programming work. There are also a handful of sub-continent types who are US natives in the business but not many.

    It is somewhat odd when I think about the mostly male field I work in that is populated nearly exclusively by whites (a good number of Jews) and East Asians. I don’t think many others work in a similar environment.

    I imagine it’s not much longer before the ACLU figures out that there are almost no NAMs and women in the field. I can see some of the bigger principal trading firms being open to lawsuit in the near future. If I were a young lawyer trying to make a name for myself I would be hunting these firms.

    Though I will add the few NAMs I have seen in the industry did not cut it. They lose money and make it hard not to get rid of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Michelle Obama did not make it at a big time law firm. There are places that cannot afford to carry AAs. Sounds like yours is one of them.
  102. FKA Max says:
    @Anonymous
    You'd think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn't happened. They've stagnated as well.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    According to this Bloomberg Innovation Index, two European countries are ahead of the U.S.: Germany and Finland. The U.S. is in 6th place.

    In the Top 10, you have 5 European countries: Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), Sweden(7th), France(9th), United Kingdom(10th).

    3 Asian countries: Korea (1st), Japan(2nd), Singapore(8th) (all of whom have strong ties with the West).

    Israel in 5th place.

    In the Top 20 there are eleven (11) European countries, three (3) Asian countries, and five (5) Anglosphere countries.

    Russia(14th) and Israel(5th) are the two other countries also in the Top 20.

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations (includes Anglosphere (USA(6th), UK(10th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), New Zealand(18th)).

    I still do not want the Hispanic and Black populations in the U.S. to grow, because it is not good for the traditionally Northern European/Protestant culture and innovativeness of the country. This is why I support Planned Parenthood, want immigration to stop, and oppose amnesty, birthright citizenship and the Catholic Church [ http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations
     
    Correction: It is actually eleven (11) historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations in the Top 20; 55% of the list.

    Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), USA(6th), Sweden(7th), UK(10th), Denmark(11th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), Norway(15th), New Zealand(18th), Netherlands(20th).

    I did not include Switzerland(16th) -- even though Switzerland, historically, has been almost 50% Protestant, in particular the innovative cities were predominantly Protestant -- because it is not really Northern European:

    The larger cities and their cantons (Bern, Geneva, Lausanne, Zürich and Basel) used to be predominantly Protestant.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Religion

    P.s.: I forgot the South on Korea; South Korea in 1st place.
    , @Anonymous
    I don't see how that's relevant to my response, since it lists 2 Asian countries as 1 and 2 in its ranking.
  103. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    According to this Bloomberg Innovation Index, two European countries are ahead of the U.S.: Germany and Finland. The U.S. is in 6th place.

    In the Top 10, you have 5 European countries: Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), Sweden(7th), France(9th), United Kingdom(10th).

    3 Asian countries: Korea (1st), Japan(2nd), Singapore(8th) (all of whom have strong ties with the West).

    Israel in 5th place.

    In the Top 20 there are eleven (11) European countries, three (3) Asian countries, and five (5) Anglosphere countries.

    Russia(14th) and Israel(5th) are the two other countries also in the Top 20.

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations (includes Anglosphere (USA(6th), UK(10th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), New Zealand(18th)).

    I still do not want the Hispanic and Black populations in the U.S. to grow, because it is not good for the traditionally Northern European/Protestant culture and innovativeness of the country. This is why I support Planned Parenthood, want immigration to stop, and oppose amnesty, birthright citizenship and the Catholic Church [ http://www.population-security.org/ ], etc.
    But, I think, qualitatively, Chinese immigrants are far more dangerous and can do a lot more damage and harm to the U.S., e.g., industrial and military espionage, takeover of higher education institutions, etc., than African Americans or Hispanics could ever do, because of their higher IQs.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations

    Correction: It is actually eleven (11) historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations in the Top 20; 55% of the list.

    Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), USA(6th), Sweden(7th), UK(10th), Denmark(11th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), Norway(15th), New Zealand(18th), Netherlands(20th).

    I did not include Switzerland(16th) — even though Switzerland, historically, has been almost 50% Protestant, in particular the innovative cities were predominantly Protestant — because it is not really Northern European:

    The larger cities and their cantons (Bern, Geneva, Lausanne, Zürich and Basel) used to be predominantly Protestant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Religion

    P.s.: I forgot the South on Korea; South Korea in 1st place.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Interestingly, Protestants are South Korea's largest religious group:

    Christianity is South Korea's largest organised religion, accounting for more than half of all South Korean adherents of religious organisations. There are approximately 13.5 million Christians in South Korea today; about two thirds of them belonging to Protestant churches, and the rest to the Roman Catholic Church. [...] Christianity, unlike in other East Asian country, found fertile ground in Korea in the 18th century, and by the end of the 18th century it persuaded a large part of the population as the declining monarchy supported it and opened the country to widespread proselytism as part of a project of Westernization.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea#Religion

    Quite a few Protestants in Singapore as well:


    Christians in Singapore constitute approximately 18% of the Country's population.[1] In 2010, about 38.5% of the country's Christians identified as Catholic and 61.5% as 'Other Christians' (chiefly Protestants).[2] [...] Christianity was introduced to Singapore by Anglican British colonists. The percentage of Christians in Singapore increased from 12.7% in 1990 to 14.6% in 2000.[4] Whilst the 2015 census showed the Christian population increased again, to 18.8%. [5]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Singapore

    The less Protestant/Northern European and more Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, etc. the U.S. becomes, the less industrious and rich it will be…
     
    - http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-reason-the-fed-is-raising-rates-and-why-it-wont-work/#comment-1710969

    SOCIOLOGY - Max Weber

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICppFQ6Tabw
  104. Rodolfo says:
    @AndrewR
    To the extent that "Asians" are actually worse drivers than the average American, it's largely if not entirely a function of the roots of automobile culture in their countries. Not only did the average American grow up in a car-centric culture, so did their parents and grandparents. Many Americans are fifth and sixth generation drivers.

    If you were to take a time machine back in time one hundred years in the US, your cute panties would be full of doo-doo in very short order, since car culture was very new and people didn't really know what they were doing.

    Japan is a country chock full of "Asians" who tend to be excellent drivers. This is because car culture has deep roots there, even if less deep than ours.

    China, on the other hand, is a completely different story. I'm a kid compared to Sailer and a lot of the commenters here but I'm old enough to remember when China was known in large part for its swarms of bicycles.

    This is bullshit! Here in Brazil we have an immense japanese colony and japanese people do poorly compared to whites. Because driving is not just visual-spatial ability, but confidence, and confidence is not a strong attribute of Asians. By the way, Lippa et al, as well as the project Talent in the 60′s have demonstrated that for pure visual-spatial abilities such as mental rotation, northern Europeans are superior to Asian !!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, with the death rate of Brazilians in traffic accidents being eight times as high as that of the Japanese, I can see that as being absolutely true.

    ...

    Ahem. I'm not sure being able to drive in an environment where violations of driving law are expected as normal is proof of anything. I like law-abiding regularity myself, all other things considered.

    But each to their own, naturally.

    , @AndrewR
    I've spent a lot of time in Brazil.

    Most Brazilian drivers could use a lot less "confidence." You mistake confidence for recklessness. Pode crê.

  105. map says:
    @Anonymous
    What about South Asians? If you measure real world performance by success in attaining upper management and other prominent roles and positions, they don't seem to under-perform. They seem to be overrepresented in them. There are the CEOs of Microsoft, Google, Pepsi, one of the recent CEOs of Citibank, Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, NYC US attorney Preet Bharara, the new FCC chairman, the mayor of London, etc.

    Yes…and they all need to go back home.

    They come from sizeable south asian populations that are heavily subsidized bu Euro and American tax dollars. They need to go back.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In the case of South Asians like Jindal and Haley, not only are their salaries paid by American tax dollars, but they were elevated to their positions and voted into office by American taxpayers.

    South Asians at least, for whatever reason, don't seem to under-perform according to your definition of real world performance.
  106. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations
     
    Correction: It is actually eleven (11) historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations in the Top 20; 55% of the list.

    Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), USA(6th), Sweden(7th), UK(10th), Denmark(11th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), Norway(15th), New Zealand(18th), Netherlands(20th).

    I did not include Switzerland(16th) -- even though Switzerland, historically, has been almost 50% Protestant, in particular the innovative cities were predominantly Protestant -- because it is not really Northern European:

    The larger cities and their cantons (Bern, Geneva, Lausanne, Zürich and Basel) used to be predominantly Protestant.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland#Religion

    P.s.: I forgot the South on Korea; South Korea in 1st place.

    Interestingly, Protestants are South Korea’s largest religious group:

    Christianity is South Korea’s largest organised religion, accounting for more than half of all South Korean adherents of religious organisations. There are approximately 13.5 million Christians in South Korea today; about two thirds of them belonging to Protestant churches, and the rest to the Roman Catholic Church. [...] Christianity, unlike in other East Asian country, found fertile ground in Korea in the 18th century, and by the end of the 18th century it persuaded a large part of the population as the declining monarchy supported it and opened the country to widespread proselytism as part of a project of Westernization.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea#Religion

    Quite a few Protestants in Singapore as well:

    Christians in Singapore constitute approximately 18% of the Country’s population.[1] In 2010, about 38.5% of the country’s Christians identified as Catholic and 61.5% as ‘Other Christians’ (chiefly Protestants).[2] [...] Christianity was introduced to Singapore by Anglican British colonists. The percentage of Christians in Singapore increased from 12.7% in 1990 to 14.6% in 2000.[4] Whilst the 2015 census showed the Christian population increased again, to 18.8%. [5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Singapore

    The less Protestant/Northern European and more Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, etc. the U.S. becomes, the less industrious and rich it will be…

    http://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-reason-the-fed-is-raising-rates-and-why-it-wont-work/#comment-1710969

    SOCIOLOGY – Max Weber

    Read More
  107. @Rodolfo
    This is bullshit! Here in Brazil we have an immense japanese colony and japanese people do poorly compared to whites. Because driving is not just visual-spatial ability, but confidence, and confidence is not a strong attribute of Asians. By the way, Lippa et al, as well as the project Talent in the 60's have demonstrated that for pure visual-spatial abilities such as mental rotation, northern Europeans are superior to Asian !!

    Well, with the death rate of Brazilians in traffic accidents being eight times as high as that of the Japanese, I can see that as being absolutely true.

    Ahem. I’m not sure being able to drive in an environment where violations of driving law are expected as normal is proof of anything. I like law-abiding regularity myself, all other things considered.

    But each to their own, naturally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Exactly. Brazilian roads are insane. There is a method to the madness but it's clear that there are too many "confident" drivers there.
  108. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @FKA Max
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    According to this Bloomberg Innovation Index, two European countries are ahead of the U.S.: Germany and Finland. The U.S. is in 6th place.

    In the Top 10, you have 5 European countries: Germany(3rd), Finland(4th), Sweden(7th), France(9th), United Kingdom(10th).

    3 Asian countries: Korea (1st), Japan(2nd), Singapore(8th) (all of whom have strong ties with the West).

    Israel in 5th place.

    In the Top 20 there are eleven (11) European countries, three (3) Asian countries, and five (5) Anglosphere countries.

    Russia(14th) and Israel(5th) are the two other countries also in the Top 20.

    Of the Top 20 countries, ten (10) are historically majority Protestant/Northern European nations (includes Anglosphere (USA(6th), UK(10th), Canada(12th), Australia(13th), New Zealand(18th)).

    I still do not want the Hispanic and Black populations in the U.S. to grow, because it is not good for the traditionally Northern European/Protestant culture and innovativeness of the country. This is why I support Planned Parenthood, want immigration to stop, and oppose amnesty, birthright citizenship and the Catholic Church [ http://www.population-security.org/ ], etc.
    But, I think, qualitatively, Chinese immigrants are far more dangerous and can do a lot more damage and harm to the U.S., e.g., industrial and military espionage, takeover of higher education institutions, etc., than African Americans or Hispanics could ever do, because of their higher IQs.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013

    I don’t see how that’s relevant to my response, since it lists 2 Asian countries as 1 and 2 in its ranking.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Thanks for reading my comment.

    I don't know if you read the Bloomberg Innovation Index website I linked to in detail, but there is one category or one measurement which kind of distorts the ranking a bit in favor of the U.S., China, Japan, and South Korea, etc.:

    High-Tech Companies
    Top 5
    United States
    China
    Japan
    South Korea
    Canada
    This is the one category in the ranking that isn't adjusted for the size of the economy or population, so it's no surprise that the U.S. finishes way ahead of all other countries, substantially boosting its overall ranking. You can argue that this factor is unfair to small nations. But there is something to be said for the sheer innovative power of America's huge high-tech sector, which ranges from Google to Lockheed Martin to Monsanto. As the aphorism, sometimes attributed to Josef Stalin, has it: Quantity has a quality all its own.
     
    - https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761621

    Also rankings change from year to year. In 2017, South Korea is still Numero Uno, but Japan is ``only'' in 7th place.

    The U.S. is in 9th place in 2017. Five European countries are in the Top 10; Sweden(2nd), Germany(3rd), Switzerland(4th), Finland(5th), Denmark(8th). - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-17/sweden-gains-south-korea-reigns-as-world-s-most-innovative-economies

    My original reply to your comment was about this point of yours, which I wanted to refute:

    You’d think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn’t happened. They’ve stagnated as well.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761895

    It increasingly looks as if (parts of) Europe (have) has started to race ahead of the U.S. when it comes to innovation, etc.

    Also, South Korea is a very special and unique Asian case and economy, not just because almost 20% of their population is Protestant, but because of Samsung:

    Samsung has a powerful influence on South Korea's economic development, politics, media and culture and has been a major driving force behind the "Miracle on the Han River".[10][11] Its affiliate companies produce around a fifth of South Korea's total exports.[12] Samsung's revenue was equal to 17% of South Korea's $1,082 billion GDP.[13]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:

    Samsung retains second spot in global spending on research and development

    https://www.sammobile.com/2016/12/27/samsung-retains-second-spot-in-global-spending-on-research-and-development/
  109. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @map
    Yes...and they all need to go back home.

    They come from sizeable south asian populations that are heavily subsidized bu Euro and American tax dollars. They need to go back.

    In the case of South Asians like Jindal and Haley, not only are their salaries paid by American tax dollars, but they were elevated to their positions and voted into office by American taxpayers.

    South Asians at least, for whatever reason, don’t seem to under-perform according to your definition of real world performance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @map
    Asians, of the south and east variety, qualify for minority disadvantaged business loans.

    Did you know that?

    The model minority argument is a complete fraud built on the backs of American taxpayers.

    Checkout Executive Order 11625.
  110. King Baeksu says: • Website
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can't we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn't true - and they do - we should be able to profit from it. Why can't we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don't actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I'd appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

    Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    Try shorting the stock of companies that indulge in SJW-type virtue-signalling nonsense. Pissing off half of the American populace does not seem like a particularly savvy business move, but I suspect that throughout 2017 and 2018 during the lead-up to the midterm elections, a lot of companies are going to be shooting themselves in the foot by vainly mixing politics and commerce. Starbucks, for example, lost 2% after announcing that it would hire 10,000 refugees in the wake of Trump’s travel-ban controversy. Could just be a coincidence, but my gut feeling tells me otherwise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Then you have to ask yourself: Just how much $5/cup coffee can America afford to drink?
  111. @King Baeksu

    Why can’t we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?
     
    Try shorting the stock of companies that indulge in SJW-type virtue-signalling nonsense. Pissing off half of the American populace does not seem like a particularly savvy business move, but I suspect that throughout 2017 and 2018 during the lead-up to the midterm elections, a lot of companies are going to be shooting themselves in the foot by vainly mixing politics and commerce. Starbucks, for example, lost 2% after announcing that it would hire 10,000 refugees in the wake of Trump's travel-ban controversy. Could just be a coincidence, but my gut feeling tells me otherwise.

    Then you have to ask yourself: Just how much $5/cup coffee can America afford to drink?

    Read More
  112. FKA Max says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't see how that's relevant to my response, since it lists 2 Asian countries as 1 and 2 in its ranking.

    Thanks for reading my comment.

    I don’t know if you read the Bloomberg Innovation Index website I linked to in detail, but there is one category or one measurement which kind of distorts the ranking a bit in favor of the U.S., China, Japan, and South Korea, etc.:

    High-Tech Companies
    Top 5
    United States
    China
    Japan
    South Korea
    Canada
    This is the one category in the ranking that isn’t adjusted for the size of the economy or population, so it’s no surprise that the U.S. finishes way ahead of all other countries, substantially boosting its overall ranking. You can argue that this factor is unfair to small nations. But there is something to be said for the sheer innovative power of America’s huge high-tech sector, which ranges from Google to Lockheed Martin to Monsanto. As the aphorism, sometimes attributed to Josef Stalin, has it: Quantity has a quality all its own.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761621

    Also rankings change from year to year. In 2017, South Korea is still Numero Uno, but Japan is “only” in 7th place.

    The U.S. is in 9th place in 2017. Five European countries are in the Top 10; Sweden(2nd), Germany(3rd), Switzerland(4th), Finland(5th), Denmark(8th). – https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-17/sweden-gains-south-korea-reigns-as-world-s-most-innovative-economies

    My original reply to your comment was about this point of yours, which I wanted to refute:

    You’d think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn’t happened. They’ve stagnated as well.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761895

    It increasingly looks as if (parts of) Europe (have) has started to race ahead of the U.S. when it comes to innovation, etc.

    Also, South Korea is a very special and unique Asian case and economy, not just because almost 20% of their population is Protestant, but because of Samsung:

    Samsung has a powerful influence on South Korea’s economic development, politics, media and culture and has been a major driving force behind the “Miracle on the Han River”.[10][11] Its affiliate companies produce around a fifth of South Korea’s total exports.[12] Samsung’s revenue was equal to 17% of South Korea’s $1,082 billion GDP.[13]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:

    Samsung retains second spot in global spending on research and development

    https://www.sammobile.com/2016/12/27/samsung-retains-second-spot-in-global-spending-on-research-and-development/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Citing an index that ranks Asian countries so highly would not make sense in the context of this discussion. According to your argument, South Korea has raced ahead of the US and Europe.
    , @Daniel Chieh

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:


     

    So let's speculate on this for a moment. If industrial labs in general have indeed been such a lighting rod for innovation, why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?

    Not trying to dispute, actually, genuinely curious and trying to fill a hole in my knowledge.

  113. @Jim Don Bob
    What is an incognito window?

    My apologies; I now realise Mr. Hayes was the fellow referring to Safari. Responses to responses get a bit hairy after a bit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    No offense taken, Autochthon. I knew what you meant.
  114. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @FKA Max
    Thanks for reading my comment.

    I don't know if you read the Bloomberg Innovation Index website I linked to in detail, but there is one category or one measurement which kind of distorts the ranking a bit in favor of the U.S., China, Japan, and South Korea, etc.:

    High-Tech Companies
    Top 5
    United States
    China
    Japan
    South Korea
    Canada
    This is the one category in the ranking that isn't adjusted for the size of the economy or population, so it's no surprise that the U.S. finishes way ahead of all other countries, substantially boosting its overall ranking. You can argue that this factor is unfair to small nations. But there is something to be said for the sheer innovative power of America's huge high-tech sector, which ranges from Google to Lockheed Martin to Monsanto. As the aphorism, sometimes attributed to Josef Stalin, has it: Quantity has a quality all its own.
     
    - https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761621

    Also rankings change from year to year. In 2017, South Korea is still Numero Uno, but Japan is ``only'' in 7th place.

    The U.S. is in 9th place in 2017. Five European countries are in the Top 10; Sweden(2nd), Germany(3rd), Switzerland(4th), Finland(5th), Denmark(8th). - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-17/sweden-gains-south-korea-reigns-as-world-s-most-innovative-economies

    My original reply to your comment was about this point of yours, which I wanted to refute:

    You’d think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn’t happened. They’ve stagnated as well.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761895

    It increasingly looks as if (parts of) Europe (have) has started to race ahead of the U.S. when it comes to innovation, etc.

    Also, South Korea is a very special and unique Asian case and economy, not just because almost 20% of their population is Protestant, but because of Samsung:

    Samsung has a powerful influence on South Korea's economic development, politics, media and culture and has been a major driving force behind the "Miracle on the Han River".[10][11] Its affiliate companies produce around a fifth of South Korea's total exports.[12] Samsung's revenue was equal to 17% of South Korea's $1,082 billion GDP.[13]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:

    Samsung retains second spot in global spending on research and development

    https://www.sammobile.com/2016/12/27/samsung-retains-second-spot-in-global-spending-on-research-and-development/

    Citing an index that ranks Asian countries so highly would not make sense in the context of this discussion. According to your argument, South Korea has raced ahead of the US and Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I think you still fail to see and appreciate the (positive) influence and (huge) impact Samsung has had and has on the South Korean economy and on South Korean innovativeness.

    Let me attempt to put this in perspective for you...

    South Korea, at the moment, has about a 1.5 trillion USD economy. Samung's revenue is around 300 billion, so roughly 20% of GDP.

    Last I checked Samsung invests about 15 billion USD in research and development annually. Equal to about 5% of their revenue.

    An U.S. equivalent would be a 3.6 trillion USD (20% of GDP) revenue company, since U.S. GDP is around 18 trillion USD, which invests about 180 billion USD (5% of revenue) in research and development annually.

    This would have a hugely significant positive impact on the U.S.'s innovativeness and would easily catapult it into 1st place in the Bloomberg Innovation Index ranking.

    Whoa: Samsung Is Responsible for 20% (!?) of South Korea's Economy


    We often bemoan the influence of big business here in the United States. And sure, a few of our companies are monsters (I'm speaking strictly about size). But while the likes of Walmart -- $444 billion in worldwide sales -- might be the corporate equivalent of a giant Amazonian catfish, at least they're swimming around our $15 trillion economy.

    In South Korea, it's apparently a different story. Samsung alone is responsible for 20 percent of the country's $1.1 trillion economy. [...]

    So there you have it: South Korea is one giant company town. Go figure.
     

    - https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-samsung-is-responsible-for-20-of-south-koreas-economy/260552/

    In the early 1990s, believing that Samsung Group was overly focused on producing massive quantities of low-quality goods and that it was not prepared to compete in quality, Lee famously said in 1993 "Change everything except your wife and kids" and true to his word attempted to reform the profoundly Korean culture that had pervaded Samsung until this point. Foreign employees were brought in and local employees were shipped out as Lee tried to foster a more international attitude to doing business.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kun-hee#Samsung
  115. map says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Actually, we invented the written exam. And we're pretty consistently higher in every other academic category as well as income.

    And the US will gift the Chinese government with your skills and talents. I am sure your brethren, or that of any other Asian country, will gladly welcome all that you have to offer for the glory of the Chinese, or any Asian, empire…physically, on Chinese, or Asian, soil.

    I don’t say this with any particular animus toward Asians or other people. This is just the wave of nationalism sweeping across the globe. It is as inevitable as the tides.

    After all, where do you thing these nations come from?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    My wife's white, so any notion of tribalism would be a bit more confused than you intuitively assume. I work with the alt-right, so trust me, a lot of people would wish that people could just line up with their "racial interest" but obviously, it isn't happening on a completely consistent basis. Higher IQ sometimes does that, I guess.

    But that's why we are not all Bedouins. "I against my brother, I and my brother against my family, my family against my tribe, my tribe..."

  116. map says:
    @Anonymous
    In the case of South Asians like Jindal and Haley, not only are their salaries paid by American tax dollars, but they were elevated to their positions and voted into office by American taxpayers.

    South Asians at least, for whatever reason, don't seem to under-perform according to your definition of real world performance.

    Asians, of the south and east variety, qualify for minority disadvantaged business loans.

    Did you know that?

    The model minority argument is a complete fraud built on the backs of American taxpayers.

    Checkout Executive Order 11625.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, I'm familiar with Asians being eligible for minority business loans. I don't think they're relevant to the examples of South Asians I cited. South Asians don't seem to under-perform according to your definition of real world performance, while other minorities, who are also eligible for minority business loans, do.
  117. Dee says:
    @Stan Adams
    Well, let's see how I stack up.

    I'm a white non-Hispanic male in my 30s.

    I was the laziest slacker student you could imagine. (It's a character flaw - I have no ambition, no drive, no hunger, no competitive spirit. I have no need for external validation. Even my libido is low-key. My ideal life is one where everyone leaves me alone to wallow in my sperginess.)

    In high school, I never took any accelerated courses, aside from AP Lit and Lang. I scored 5 on both exams.

    I did absolutely no SAT test prep. Never even looked at the book that my mother got me. Took the test only once, totally cold, early in my senior year.

    On the early-2000s SAT, I got 800 verbal, 660 math. (Embarrassingly low math score, yes.) I applied to a non-elite university and did my four years. (I was legacy, so there you go.) As a total slacker, I graduated cum laude with two BS liberal-arts majors. Big waste of time and money. But my mother and my grandmother kept telling me that "you have to get a degree - any degree," and it wasn't as if I had any burning desire to do anything else, so I dutifully followed their orders. I drifted for a long time after graduation.

    How much money do I make now? That, Winston, you shall never know. (Take note of the fact that I'm not bragging.)

    I'm sure there are people around here who were as lazy as I was and easily scored 1600 on the pre-1995 SAT. (Certainly there are a hell of a lot of people here who took the SAT cold and did much better on the math part.) I know I'm not as smart as those folks. But I am smart enough to get most of what I want out of life, most of the time, and that's enough for me.

    If I'd been more disciplined and motivated, would I be a shining exemplar of the white race? You tell me. More than I am now, I guess.

    About ten years ago, I desperately needed to convince myself that I wasn't a dumb failure, so I went ahead and memorized the calendar. That skill fit in nicely with my spergy interests, and it gave me a nice little ego boost.

    But anyway...

    No, there were very few 1600 SAT scores before the great recentering in 1995. You could count all of them in one year on the fingers of your hands and wouldn’t need all ten most years.

    And this was out of 1.5 million+ that were taking the test. Since 1995 I’ve read they get 2,000 or more 1600, perfect scores. And you just know most of them would of never got more than 1350 back when the SAT was a real mother.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    People Magazine profiled 5 of the 9 perfect score guys on the SAT one year in the early 1990s.
    , @dr kill
    I shot a 1360 in 1971. Came to the test in my camo, fresh out of a deer blind. In those past, misty, gentler times, country-folk didn't rightly understand what those Hebrews and other city-folk already knew about standardized testing and admissions. Cornell and UVM both told me no that winter. But my grades did suck.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I was one of the few 1600s! Do I get a cookie for knowing about analogies? :p
  118. @Dee
    No, there were very few 1600 SAT scores before the great recentering in 1995. You could count all of them in one year on the fingers of your hands and wouldn't need all ten most years.

    And this was out of 1.5 million+ that were taking the test. Since 1995 I've read they get 2,000 or more 1600, perfect scores. And you just know most of them would of never got more than 1350 back when the SAT was a real mother.

    People Magazine profiled 5 of the 9 perfect score guys on the SAT one year in the early 1990s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104

    Nine students out of 1.7 million—.000005 percent—got perfect SAT scores in 1985-86, and all of them were male. The test-givers won’t divulge the names, but PEOPLE has tracked down five students with perfect SATs.
     
    A perfect score on the ACT was 35 back then, not today's 36.

    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/
  119. AndrewR says:
    @Rodolfo
    This is bullshit! Here in Brazil we have an immense japanese colony and japanese people do poorly compared to whites. Because driving is not just visual-spatial ability, but confidence, and confidence is not a strong attribute of Asians. By the way, Lippa et al, as well as the project Talent in the 60's have demonstrated that for pure visual-spatial abilities such as mental rotation, northern Europeans are superior to Asian !!

    I’ve spent a lot of time in Brazil.

    Most Brazilian drivers could use a lot less “confidence.” You mistake confidence for recklessness. Pode crê.

    Read More
  120. AndrewR says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Well, with the death rate of Brazilians in traffic accidents being eight times as high as that of the Japanese, I can see that as being absolutely true.

    ...

    Ahem. I'm not sure being able to drive in an environment where violations of driving law are expected as normal is proof of anything. I like law-abiding regularity myself, all other things considered.

    But each to their own, naturally.

    Exactly. Brazilian roads are insane. There is a method to the madness but it’s clear that there are too many “confident” drivers there.

    Read More
  121. dr kill says:
    @Dee
    No, there were very few 1600 SAT scores before the great recentering in 1995. You could count all of them in one year on the fingers of your hands and wouldn't need all ten most years.

    And this was out of 1.5 million+ that were taking the test. Since 1995 I've read they get 2,000 or more 1600, perfect scores. And you just know most of them would of never got more than 1350 back when the SAT was a real mother.

    I shot a 1360 in 1971. Came to the test in my camo, fresh out of a deer blind. In those past, misty, gentler times, country-folk didn’t rightly understand what those Hebrews and other city-folk already knew about standardized testing and admissions. Cornell and UVM both told me no that winter. But my grades did suck.

    Read More
  122. @Dee
    No, there were very few 1600 SAT scores before the great recentering in 1995. You could count all of them in one year on the fingers of your hands and wouldn't need all ten most years.

    And this was out of 1.5 million+ that were taking the test. Since 1995 I've read they get 2,000 or more 1600, perfect scores. And you just know most of them would of never got more than 1350 back when the SAT was a real mother.

    I was one of the few 1600s! Do I get a cookie for knowing about analogies? :p

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    A fortune cookie, with the message: "May you live in interesting times."

    Your numbers are 4, 14, and 18.

  123. @Yak-15
    In my experience the Asian cohort has been exclusively immigrant Asians as traders and programmers. East Asians in particular. Imported Indian programmers make their appearance here and there but it's mostly whites and then East Asians doing programming work. There are also a handful of sub-continent types who are US natives in the business but not many.

    It is somewhat odd when I think about the mostly male field I work in that is populated nearly exclusively by whites (a good number of Jews) and East Asians. I don't think many others work in a similar environment.

    I imagine it's not much longer before the ACLU figures out that there are almost no NAMs and women in the field. I can see some of the bigger principal trading firms being open to lawsuit in the near future. If I were a young lawyer trying to make a name for myself I would be hunting these firms.

    Though I will add the few NAMs I have seen in the industry did not cut it. They lose money and make it hard not to get rid of them.

    Michelle Obama did not make it at a big time law firm. There are places that cannot afford to carry AAs. Sounds like yours is one of them.

    Read More
  124. @Autochthon
    My apologies; I now realise Mr. Hayes was the fellow referring to Safari. Responses to responses get a bit hairy after a bit.

    No offense taken, Autochthon. I knew what you meant.

    Read More
  125. @map
    And the US will gift the Chinese government with your skills and talents. I am sure your brethren, or that of any other Asian country, will gladly welcome all that you have to offer for the glory of the Chinese, or any Asian, empire...physically, on Chinese, or Asian, soil.

    I don't say this with any particular animus toward Asians or other people. This is just the wave of nationalism sweeping across the globe. It is as inevitable as the tides.

    After all, where do you thing these nations come from?

    My wife’s white, so any notion of tribalism would be a bit more confused than you intuitively assume. I work with the alt-right, so trust me, a lot of people would wish that people could just line up with their “racial interest” but obviously, it isn’t happening on a completely consistent basis. Higher IQ sometimes does that, I guess.

    But that’s why we are not all Bedouins. “I against my brother, I and my brother against my family, my family against my tribe, my tribe…”

    Read More
  126. @FKA Max
    Thanks for reading my comment.

    I don't know if you read the Bloomberg Innovation Index website I linked to in detail, but there is one category or one measurement which kind of distorts the ranking a bit in favor of the U.S., China, Japan, and South Korea, etc.:

    High-Tech Companies
    Top 5
    United States
    China
    Japan
    South Korea
    Canada
    This is the one category in the ranking that isn't adjusted for the size of the economy or population, so it's no surprise that the U.S. finishes way ahead of all other countries, substantially boosting its overall ranking. You can argue that this factor is unfair to small nations. But there is something to be said for the sheer innovative power of America's huge high-tech sector, which ranges from Google to Lockheed Martin to Monsanto. As the aphorism, sometimes attributed to Josef Stalin, has it: Quantity has a quality all its own.
     
    - https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    Quantity, indeed, has its own quality.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761621

    Also rankings change from year to year. In 2017, South Korea is still Numero Uno, but Japan is ``only'' in 7th place.

    The U.S. is in 9th place in 2017. Five European countries are in the Top 10; Sweden(2nd), Germany(3rd), Switzerland(4th), Finland(5th), Denmark(8th). - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-17/sweden-gains-south-korea-reigns-as-world-s-most-innovative-economies

    My original reply to your comment was about this point of yours, which I wanted to refute:

    You’d think Europe would have raced ahead of the US then, since European universities and STEM fields are dominated by native Europeans. But that hasn’t happened. They’ve stagnated as well.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/everything-about-sat-math-racial-gaps-has-changed-since-1972/#comment-1761895

    It increasingly looks as if (parts of) Europe (have) has started to race ahead of the U.S. when it comes to innovation, etc.

    Also, South Korea is a very special and unique Asian case and economy, not just because almost 20% of their population is Protestant, but because of Samsung:

    Samsung has a powerful influence on South Korea's economic development, politics, media and culture and has been a major driving force behind the "Miracle on the Han River".[10][11] Its affiliate companies produce around a fifth of South Korea's total exports.[12] Samsung's revenue was equal to 17% of South Korea's $1,082 billion GDP.[13]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:

    Samsung retains second spot in global spending on research and development

    https://www.sammobile.com/2016/12/27/samsung-retains-second-spot-in-global-spending-on-research-and-development/

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:

    So let’s speculate on this for a moment. If industrial labs in general have indeed been such a lighting rod for innovation, why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?

    Not trying to dispute, actually, genuinely curious and trying to fill a hole in my knowledge.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?
     
    Increased competition and short term focus (and for Bell Labs the breaking up of the AT&T monopoly) seem like adequate (though perhaps incomplete) explanations to me.

    Japan and South Korea seem to still support the corporate research model in contrast to the US where the focus seems to be more on government sponsored university research (with some university affiliated weapons type corporate labs as well).

    But what do you think? I'm guessing you know a good bit about all of this and were simply looking for an alternate view.
    , @FKA Max
    Thanks for your interest.

    Let me quote the 2015 Bloomberg Innovation Index, again:

    Research & Development
    Top 5
    South Korea
    Israel
    Finland
    Sweden
    Japan
    South Korea, No. 1 in this category, is proof that countries can lift themselves up by their bootstraps through a combination of government support and private enterprise. In 1957, not long after the Korean War, the nation's GDP per capita was on the same level as Ghana's. But R&D doesn't do much good if it stays bottled up in the lab. In many countries, such as France, scientists who are government employees working in prestigious institutes have little incentive to commercialize their work, so the public is slow to benefit, says Bronwyn Hall, a professor emerita of economics at the University of California-Berkeley. Hall says a more efficient tech-transfer model is America's National Science Foundation, which makes 94 percent of its research grants to people in university labs and companies. It's not just governments that are doing the heavy lifting. In South Korea, research-intensive companies, led by Samsung, have modernized the whole economy.
     
    - https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/
    , @Jim Don Bob
    That's easy. For years, AT&T used the money made from long distance to subsidize local phone service and Bell Labs. When it was broken up into RBOCs, long distance rates fell because of competition from the likes of MCI, local rates rose to more like their true cost, and there was no money left for Bell Labs.
  127. @Jim Don Bob
    Nice to see that someone can spell the word pique and use it correctly in a sentence.

    Haha nice to see someone appreciate it!

    For full disclosure, it was spelled wrong by the commenter, and I just had to correct it.

    …and, to be honest, I had to google it, because I knew “peaked” or “peeked” looked wrong, but I couldn’t think of the correct spelling.

    (I think the common misspelling will be acceptable soon… And I’m getting old haha….)

    Anyway it was all worth it since Steve kindly quoted it in the head.

    Read More
  128. res says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:


     

    So let's speculate on this for a moment. If industrial labs in general have indeed been such a lighting rod for innovation, why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?

    Not trying to dispute, actually, genuinely curious and trying to fill a hole in my knowledge.

    why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?

    Increased competition and short term focus (and for Bell Labs the breaking up of the AT&T monopoly) seem like adequate (though perhaps incomplete) explanations to me.

    Japan and South Korea seem to still support the corporate research model in contrast to the US where the focus seems to be more on government sponsored university research (with some university affiliated weapons type corporate labs as well).

    But what do you think? I’m guessing you know a good bit about all of this and were simply looking for an alternate view.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I've studied quite a few views on corporate versus government research models, and generally have the belief that government spending aimed is more likely aimed at basic research and therefore has more "long-term" merit while corporate research is aimed at application and incremental improvement. However, the companies such as Bell Labs would seem to challenge that assumption, so its interesting to learn more about this.

    Thanks all!
  129. FKA Max says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:


     

    So let's speculate on this for a moment. If industrial labs in general have indeed been such a lighting rod for innovation, why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?

    Not trying to dispute, actually, genuinely curious and trying to fill a hole in my knowledge.

    Thanks for your interest.

    Let me quote the 2015 Bloomberg Innovation Index, again:

    Research & Development
    Top 5
    South Korea
    Israel
    Finland
    Sweden
    Japan
    South Korea, No. 1 in this category, is proof that countries can lift themselves up by their bootstraps through a combination of government support and private enterprise. In 1957, not long after the Korean War, the nation’s GDP per capita was on the same level as Ghana’s. But R&D doesn’t do much good if it stays bottled up in the lab. In many countries, such as France, scientists who are government employees working in prestigious institutes have little incentive to commercialize their work, so the public is slow to benefit, says Bronwyn Hall, a professor emerita of economics at the University of California-Berkeley. Hall says a more efficient tech-transfer model is America’s National Science Foundation, which makes 94 percent of its research grants to people in university labs and companies. It’s not just governments that are doing the heavy lifting. In South Korea, research-intensive companies, led by Samsung, have modernized the whole economy.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Still, with Alphabet worth around $500 billion and I believe, supposedly heavily dedicated to innovation and research, including with moonshots, it would seem to be comparable as a model. Of course, Alphabet seems to be split into smaller teams each so there might not be a certain economy of scale? But still, the notion of economy of scale is not usually one that is applied to research that I know of.
  130. @Steve Sailer
    People Magazine profiled 5 of the 9 perfect score guys on the SAT one year in the early 1990s.

    Nine students out of 1.7 million—.000005 percent—got perfect SAT scores in 1985-86, and all of them were male. The test-givers won’t divulge the names, but PEOPLE has tracked down five students with perfect SATs.

    A perfect score on the ACT was 35 back then, not today’s 36.

    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Korean tiger dad:


    When Daniel Pak took the SATs as a junior, he scored an impressive 1540 points. “But when I told my father,” recalls Pak, “he looked up and said, ‘Well, too bad.’ ” Last November the elder Pak persuaded his son to drag himself out of bed at 7 a.m. to face the ordeal again. Daniel had one overriding reason to obey: If he hit 1600, his father promised to buy him a car.

    Sungha Pak has reason to drive his son. An ex-professor of German literature in Korea, Sungha has failed to become fluent in English since he and his wife, Shiella, a nurse, emigrated in 1970. As a result, he now works as a maintenance repairman, and he is determined that no other family member will fall short of potential.

    [...] Pak wanted to go to Stanford next year, but his father insisted on Harvard and Daniel yielded.
     
    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/
  131. @Triumph104

    Nine students out of 1.7 million—.000005 percent—got perfect SAT scores in 1985-86, and all of them were male. The test-givers won’t divulge the names, but PEOPLE has tracked down five students with perfect SATs.
     
    A perfect score on the ACT was 35 back then, not today's 36.

    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/

    Korean tiger dad:

    When Daniel Pak took the SATs as a junior, he scored an impressive 1540 points. “But when I told my father,” recalls Pak, “he looked up and said, ‘Well, too bad.’ ” Last November the elder Pak persuaded his son to drag himself out of bed at 7 a.m. to face the ordeal again. Daniel had one overriding reason to obey: If he hit 1600, his father promised to buy him a car.

    Sungha Pak has reason to drive his son. An ex-professor of German literature in Korea, Sungha has failed to become fluent in English since he and his wife, Shiella, a nurse, emigrated in 1970. As a result, he now works as a maintenance repairman, and he is determined that no other family member will fall short of potential.

    [...] Pak wanted to go to Stanford next year, but his father insisted on Harvard and Daniel yielded.

    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I remembered that about the Korean tiger dad who used to be a professor of German literature in South Korea but then emigrated and couldn't learn English and became a repairman. I started feeling more sorry for the black small businessmen in Chicago who were getting squeezed out of the black hair care products retail trade by Korean maniacs who were professionals back home but moved to the 'hood in America to sell Jerri-Curl to unemployed blacks. It didn't seem like a fair fight.
    , @benjaminl
    OK, I googled.

    https://pharmacology.georgetown.edu/faculty/facpak.html

    Don't think any of the other 1600 guys showed up on the web, though (although with common names, it's hard to be sure).

    I guess it just reminds me that the correlation between aptitude and success is not 1.0.
  132. FKA Max says:
    @Anonymous
    Citing an index that ranks Asian countries so highly would not make sense in the context of this discussion. According to your argument, South Korea has raced ahead of the US and Europe.

    I think you still fail to see and appreciate the (positive) influence and (huge) impact Samsung has had and has on the South Korean economy and on South Korean innovativeness.

    Let me attempt to put this in perspective for you…

    South Korea, at the moment, has about a 1.5 trillion USD economy. Samung’s revenue is around 300 billion, so roughly 20% of GDP.

    Last I checked Samsung invests about 15 billion USD in research and development annually. Equal to about 5% of their revenue.

    An U.S. equivalent would be a 3.6 trillion USD (20% of GDP) revenue company, since U.S. GDP is around 18 trillion USD, which invests about 180 billion USD (5% of revenue) in research and development annually.

    This would have a hugely significant positive impact on the U.S.’s innovativeness and would easily catapult it into 1st place in the Bloomberg Innovation Index ranking.

    Whoa: Samsung Is Responsible for 20% (!?) of South Korea’s Economy

    We often bemoan the influence of big business here in the United States. And sure, a few of our companies are monsters (I’m speaking strictly about size). But while the likes of Walmart — $444 billion in worldwide sales — might be the corporate equivalent of a giant Amazonian catfish, at least they’re swimming around our $15 trillion economy.

    In South Korea, it’s apparently a different story. Samsung alone is responsible for 20 percent of the country’s $1.1 trillion economy. [...]

    So there you have it: South Korea is one giant company town. Go figure.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-samsung-is-responsible-for-20-of-south-koreas-economy/260552/

    In the early 1990s, believing that Samsung Group was overly focused on producing massive quantities of low-quality goods and that it was not prepared to compete in quality, Lee famously said in 1993 “Change everything except your wife and kids” and true to his word attempted to reform the profoundly Korean culture that had pervaded Samsung until this point. Foreign employees were brought in and local employees were shipped out as Lee tried to foster a more international attitude to doing business.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kun-hee#Samsung

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I understand the prominence of Samsung in Korea. I think you fail to see that it's irrelevant to the original discussion.
  133. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @map
    Asians, of the south and east variety, qualify for minority disadvantaged business loans.

    Did you know that?

    The model minority argument is a complete fraud built on the backs of American taxpayers.

    Checkout Executive Order 11625.

    Yes, I’m familiar with Asians being eligible for minority business loans. I don’t think they’re relevant to the examples of South Asians I cited. South Asians don’t seem to under-perform according to your definition of real world performance, while other minorities, who are also eligible for minority business loans, do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @map
    That covers south asians as well. Here is a partial copy of the text:

    For purposes of determining eligibility to receive MBDA services, an MBE is defined as a business concern that is owned or controlled by the following persons or groups of persons that are also U.S. citizens or resident aliens admitted for lawful admission to the United States: African Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, Native Americans (including Alaska Natives, Alaska Native Corporations and Tribal entities), Asian Indians and Hasidic Jews. See 15 CFR § 1400.1 and Executive Order 11625. It is important to note that there is no cross-cutting federal MBE classification and the above definition does not serve to establish eligibility for federal programs or services outside of those offered by MBDA.
     
    Soak that in for a moment. The federal government provides taxpayer money basically to nonwhites in America, even when they are legal residents.

    Legal residents?
  134. @Daniel Chieh

    If Samsung makes smart decisions the entire country benefits:


     

    So let's speculate on this for a moment. If industrial labs in general have indeed been such a lighting rod for innovation, why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?

    Not trying to dispute, actually, genuinely curious and trying to fill a hole in my knowledge.

    That’s easy. For years, AT&T used the money made from long distance to subsidize local phone service and Bell Labs. When it was broken up into RBOCs, long distance rates fell because of competition from the likes of MCI, local rates rose to more like their true cost, and there was no money left for Bell Labs.

    Read More
  135. @res

    why is it that Bell Labs, etc, are no longer with us?
     
    Increased competition and short term focus (and for Bell Labs the breaking up of the AT&T monopoly) seem like adequate (though perhaps incomplete) explanations to me.

    Japan and South Korea seem to still support the corporate research model in contrast to the US where the focus seems to be more on government sponsored university research (with some university affiliated weapons type corporate labs as well).

    But what do you think? I'm guessing you know a good bit about all of this and were simply looking for an alternate view.

    I’ve studied quite a few views on corporate versus government research models, and generally have the belief that government spending aimed is more likely aimed at basic research and therefore has more “long-term” merit while corporate research is aimed at application and incremental improvement. However, the companies such as Bell Labs would seem to challenge that assumption, so its interesting to learn more about this.

    Thanks all!

    Read More
  136. @FKA Max
    Thanks for your interest.

    Let me quote the 2015 Bloomberg Innovation Index, again:

    Research & Development
    Top 5
    South Korea
    Israel
    Finland
    Sweden
    Japan
    South Korea, No. 1 in this category, is proof that countries can lift themselves up by their bootstraps through a combination of government support and private enterprise. In 1957, not long after the Korean War, the nation's GDP per capita was on the same level as Ghana's. But R&D doesn't do much good if it stays bottled up in the lab. In many countries, such as France, scientists who are government employees working in prestigious institutes have little incentive to commercialize their work, so the public is slow to benefit, says Bronwyn Hall, a professor emerita of economics at the University of California-Berkeley. Hall says a more efficient tech-transfer model is America's National Science Foundation, which makes 94 percent of its research grants to people in university labs and companies. It's not just governments that are doing the heavy lifting. In South Korea, research-intensive companies, led by Samsung, have modernized the whole economy.
     
    - https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-innovative-countries/

    Still, with Alphabet worth around $500 billion and I believe, supposedly heavily dedicated to innovation and research, including with moonshots, it would seem to be comparable as a model. Of course, Alphabet seems to be split into smaller teams each so there might not be a certain economy of scale? But still, the notion of economy of scale is not usually one that is applied to research that I know of.

    Read More
  137. @Daniel Chieh
    I was one of the few 1600s! Do I get a cookie for knowing about analogies? :p

    A fortune cookie, with the message: “May you live in interesting times.”

    Your numbers are 4, 14, and 18.

    Read More
  138. @Jim Don Bob
    HRC also got thrown off the Watergate committee for unethical behavior.

    https://www.cato.org/blog/was-hillary-clinton-fired-nixon-impeachment-inquiry

    She started out as a Goldwater girl. She even went through an Ayn Rand phase.

    Bill Clinton laughed. He stood naked at the edge of a hill. Whitewater lay far below him.

    Nearby, Hillary gargled. Over the weekend, she’d used up almost an entire jumbo bottle of Scope. And it was only Saturday morning.

    Read More
  139. EdwardM says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Well, this reminds of a constant thorn in my side. Why can't we figure out a way to make money off of white and Asian leftists?

    If a huge number of people with a huge amount of money believe something that isn't true - and they do - we should be able to profit from it. Why can't we?

    My best guess is that those white and Asian leftist don't actually live the way that they talk, thus killing the arbitrage, but I'd appreciate other thoughts on the subject.

    Perhaps Arianna Huffington was ahead of the curve on this, morphing from a conservative pundit — a good one — to start the ultimate SWPL organ, the Huffington Post, then sold it to a hapless corporation for very good money.

    I don’t know what her core principles are, if any, but I don’t begrudge her entrepreneurial success.

    Read More
  140. @Triumph104
    Korean tiger dad:


    When Daniel Pak took the SATs as a junior, he scored an impressive 1540 points. “But when I told my father,” recalls Pak, “he looked up and said, ‘Well, too bad.’ ” Last November the elder Pak persuaded his son to drag himself out of bed at 7 a.m. to face the ordeal again. Daniel had one overriding reason to obey: If he hit 1600, his father promised to buy him a car.

    Sungha Pak has reason to drive his son. An ex-professor of German literature in Korea, Sungha has failed to become fluent in English since he and his wife, Shiella, a nurse, emigrated in 1970. As a result, he now works as a maintenance repairman, and he is determined that no other family member will fall short of potential.

    [...] Pak wanted to go to Stanford next year, but his father insisted on Harvard and Daniel yielded.
     
    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/

    I remembered that about the Korean tiger dad who used to be a professor of German literature in South Korea but then emigrated and couldn’t learn English and became a repairman. I started feeling more sorry for the black small businessmen in Chicago who were getting squeezed out of the black hair care products retail trade by Korean maniacs who were professionals back home but moved to the ‘hood in America to sell Jerri-Curl to unemployed blacks. It didn’t seem like a fair fight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You don't need a professional education to sell hair weaves.

    A peddler working a street corner could do it - but blacks being blacks, would likely kill you first.
    I can't see the connection, no comparative advantage accrues from a university education, as compared to street smarts, in the wig and weave peddling business. In fact, higher education is a disadvantage, as the time and money wasted could have been used on buying stock, premises, networks etc.
    , @Triumph104
    Nowadays, less than half of black women get chemical curls, perms, or relaxers, but over half use hair weaves, extensions, and wigs which can cost several hundred dollars. Because of the expense, many beauty supply stores are robbed and several Asian store employees have been attacked. LINK

    Aron Ranen's Black Hair Documentary shows some of the business practices used by Koreans. They might refuse to carry black-manufactured products or may open a store near a black-owned beauty supply store and offer very low prices until the black-owned store goes out of business. LINK

    Chris Rock's documentary Good Hair focuses on India where much of the real hair for weaves, extensions, and wigs originate. The film also shows Chinese in the black-hair industry, but I don't know what their area of specialty is.

  141. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    I remembered that about the Korean tiger dad who used to be a professor of German literature in South Korea but then emigrated and couldn't learn English and became a repairman. I started feeling more sorry for the black small businessmen in Chicago who were getting squeezed out of the black hair care products retail trade by Korean maniacs who were professionals back home but moved to the 'hood in America to sell Jerri-Curl to unemployed blacks. It didn't seem like a fair fight.

    You don’t need a professional education to sell hair weaves.

    A peddler working a street corner could do it – but blacks being blacks, would likely kill you first.
    I can’t see the connection, no comparative advantage accrues from a university education, as compared to street smarts, in the wig and weave peddling business. In fact, higher education is a disadvantage, as the time and money wasted could have been used on buying stock, premises, networks etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yeah, but you still get Koreans with college degrees immigrating to the 'hood to sell Jerri-Curl to the locals.

    Like a guy who worked for me who arrived from Seoul in Chicago in 1976, his dad was a pharmacist in South Korea. But he couldn't learn English well enough to pass the pharmacy exam in the U.S. so he went into the dry cleaning business in the ghetto and now he owns five dry cleaners. He told me a story once about how hard it was for them when the immigrated in 1976 because the government of South Korea only let them take $50,000 with them out of Korea. Which didn't strike me as all that tiny of a grubstake in 1976 and also suggested they had lots more money at home.

    This stuff helped explain to me why middle class blacks just hated Koreans, like in the movie Boyz N the Hood where there's a lecture about the evils of gentrification by Laurence Fishburne and most whites took it as being about whites, but the billboard says "Seoul to Soul Real Estate."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p9rqqJmDaQ

  142. @Anonymous
    You don't need a professional education to sell hair weaves.

    A peddler working a street corner could do it - but blacks being blacks, would likely kill you first.
    I can't see the connection, no comparative advantage accrues from a university education, as compared to street smarts, in the wig and weave peddling business. In fact, higher education is a disadvantage, as the time and money wasted could have been used on buying stock, premises, networks etc.

    Yeah, but you still get Koreans with college degrees immigrating to the ‘hood to sell Jerri-Curl to the locals.

    Like a guy who worked for me who arrived from Seoul in Chicago in 1976, his dad was a pharmacist in South Korea. But he couldn’t learn English well enough to pass the pharmacy exam in the U.S. so he went into the dry cleaning business in the ghetto and now he owns five dry cleaners. He told me a story once about how hard it was for them when the immigrated in 1976 because the government of South Korea only let them take $50,000 with them out of Korea. Which didn’t strike me as all that tiny of a grubstake in 1976 and also suggested they had lots more money at home.

    This stuff helped explain to me why middle class blacks just hated Koreans, like in the movie Boyz N the Hood where there’s a lecture about the evils of gentrification by Laurence Fishburne and most whites took it as being about whites, but the billboard says “Seoul to Soul Real Estate.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Whilst on the subject of the wig and hair business, George Washington and his ilk - the hallowed gods of secular America, all wore their hair, as a matter of course, in carefully white powdered coiffure - not wigs as commonly thought but a second hand type of hair imitating wig (bizarre to modern times), carefully powdered with finely ground corn starch, which had to be specially imported from England as an 'import dispensation', so vital was it deemed.

    Modern day nationalist Dutch politician, Geert Wilders apparently seems to sport a contemporary version of the said tonsorial elegance.
  143. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Steve Sailer
    Yeah, but you still get Koreans with college degrees immigrating to the 'hood to sell Jerri-Curl to the locals.

    Like a guy who worked for me who arrived from Seoul in Chicago in 1976, his dad was a pharmacist in South Korea. But he couldn't learn English well enough to pass the pharmacy exam in the U.S. so he went into the dry cleaning business in the ghetto and now he owns five dry cleaners. He told me a story once about how hard it was for them when the immigrated in 1976 because the government of South Korea only let them take $50,000 with them out of Korea. Which didn't strike me as all that tiny of a grubstake in 1976 and also suggested they had lots more money at home.

    This stuff helped explain to me why middle class blacks just hated Koreans, like in the movie Boyz N the Hood where there's a lecture about the evils of gentrification by Laurence Fishburne and most whites took it as being about whites, but the billboard says "Seoul to Soul Real Estate."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p9rqqJmDaQ

    Whilst on the subject of the wig and hair business, George Washington and his ilk – the hallowed gods of secular America, all wore their hair, as a matter of course, in carefully white powdered coiffure – not wigs as commonly thought but a second hand type of hair imitating wig (bizarre to modern times), carefully powdered with finely ground corn starch, which had to be specially imported from England as an ‘import dispensation’, so vital was it deemed.

    Modern day nationalist Dutch politician, Geert Wilders apparently seems to sport a contemporary version of the said tonsorial elegance.

    Read More
  144. @Steve Sailer
    I remembered that about the Korean tiger dad who used to be a professor of German literature in South Korea but then emigrated and couldn't learn English and became a repairman. I started feeling more sorry for the black small businessmen in Chicago who were getting squeezed out of the black hair care products retail trade by Korean maniacs who were professionals back home but moved to the 'hood in America to sell Jerri-Curl to unemployed blacks. It didn't seem like a fair fight.

    Nowadays, less than half of black women get chemical curls, perms, or relaxers, but over half use hair weaves, extensions, and wigs which can cost several hundred dollars. Because of the expense, many beauty supply stores are robbed and several Asian store employees have been attacked. LINK

    Aron Ranen’s Black Hair Documentary shows some of the business practices used by Koreans. They might refuse to carry black-manufactured products or may open a store near a black-owned beauty supply store and offer very low prices until the black-owned store goes out of business. LINK

    Chris Rock’s documentary Good Hair focuses on India where much of the real hair for weaves, extensions, and wigs originate. The film also shows Chinese in the black-hair industry, but I don’t know what their area of specialty is.

    Read More
  145. benjaminl says:
    @Triumph104
    Korean tiger dad:


    When Daniel Pak took the SATs as a junior, he scored an impressive 1540 points. “But when I told my father,” recalls Pak, “he looked up and said, ‘Well, too bad.’ ” Last November the elder Pak persuaded his son to drag himself out of bed at 7 a.m. to face the ordeal again. Daniel had one overriding reason to obey: If he hit 1600, his father promised to buy him a car.

    Sungha Pak has reason to drive his son. An ex-professor of German literature in Korea, Sungha has failed to become fluent in English since he and his wife, Shiella, a nurse, emigrated in 1970. As a result, he now works as a maintenance repairman, and he is determined that no other family member will fall short of potential.

    [...] Pak wanted to go to Stanford next year, but his father insisted on Harvard and Daniel yielded.
     
    http://people.com/archive/no-mistake-these-five-kids-have-all-the-answers-they-scored-perfect-1600s-on-their-sat-exams-vol-27-no-23/

    OK, I googled.

    https://pharmacology.georgetown.edu/faculty/facpak.html

    Don’t think any of the other 1600 guys showed up on the web, though (although with common names, it’s hard to be sure).

    I guess it just reminds me that the correlation between aptitude and success is not 1.0.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The four white guys had pretty common names so they are tough to track down.

    I found maybe two. One's an 8th grade English teacher now, very enthusiastic about his job. He mentions he went through a bunch of different careers looking for what he wanted to do.

    I think I found another, but his Facebook page is mostly just pictures of him on his Harley. He seems popular with his blue collarish extended family, but there's no mention of what he does. He may have held some corporate jobs in the 1990s.

    But, yeah, the Korean guy who is a much published brain researching professor at Georgetown Medical School appears to be the super-achiever of the bunch.

  146. @benjaminl
    OK, I googled.

    https://pharmacology.georgetown.edu/faculty/facpak.html

    Don't think any of the other 1600 guys showed up on the web, though (although with common names, it's hard to be sure).

    I guess it just reminds me that the correlation between aptitude and success is not 1.0.

    The four white guys had pretty common names so they are tough to track down.

    I found maybe two. One’s an 8th grade English teacher now, very enthusiastic about his job. He mentions he went through a bunch of different careers looking for what he wanted to do.

    I think I found another, but his Facebook page is mostly just pictures of him on his Harley. He seems popular with his blue collarish extended family, but there’s no mention of what he does. He may have held some corporate jobs in the 1990s.

    But, yeah, the Korean guy who is a much published brain researching professor at Georgetown Medical School appears to be the super-achiever of the bunch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Stutheit was very easy to find, and I am sure that I could find all of them within an hour.
    But why bother: all of them, Pak included, prove that the American obsession with test scores is infantile and unproductive.
    Genius is what makes human beings interesting, and it has nothing to do with acing a multiple choice test. Sheesh, I'm embarrassed to even have to spell it out.
  147. @Steve Sailer
    The four white guys had pretty common names so they are tough to track down.

    I found maybe two. One's an 8th grade English teacher now, very enthusiastic about his job. He mentions he went through a bunch of different careers looking for what he wanted to do.

    I think I found another, but his Facebook page is mostly just pictures of him on his Harley. He seems popular with his blue collarish extended family, but there's no mention of what he does. He may have held some corporate jobs in the 1990s.

    But, yeah, the Korean guy who is a much published brain researching professor at Georgetown Medical School appears to be the super-achiever of the bunch.

    Stutheit was very easy to find, and I am sure that I could find all of them within an hour.
    But why bother: all of them, Pak included, prove that the American obsession with test scores is infantile and unproductive.
    Genius is what makes human beings interesting, and it has nothing to do with acing a multiple choice test. Sheesh, I’m embarrassed to even have to spell it out.

    Read More
  148. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @FKA Max
    I think you still fail to see and appreciate the (positive) influence and (huge) impact Samsung has had and has on the South Korean economy and on South Korean innovativeness.

    Let me attempt to put this in perspective for you...

    South Korea, at the moment, has about a 1.5 trillion USD economy. Samung's revenue is around 300 billion, so roughly 20% of GDP.

    Last I checked Samsung invests about 15 billion USD in research and development annually. Equal to about 5% of their revenue.

    An U.S. equivalent would be a 3.6 trillion USD (20% of GDP) revenue company, since U.S. GDP is around 18 trillion USD, which invests about 180 billion USD (5% of revenue) in research and development annually.

    This would have a hugely significant positive impact on the U.S.'s innovativeness and would easily catapult it into 1st place in the Bloomberg Innovation Index ranking.

    Whoa: Samsung Is Responsible for 20% (!?) of South Korea's Economy


    We often bemoan the influence of big business here in the United States. And sure, a few of our companies are monsters (I'm speaking strictly about size). But while the likes of Walmart -- $444 billion in worldwide sales -- might be the corporate equivalent of a giant Amazonian catfish, at least they're swimming around our $15 trillion economy.

    In South Korea, it's apparently a different story. Samsung alone is responsible for 20 percent of the country's $1.1 trillion economy. [...]

    So there you have it: South Korea is one giant company town. Go figure.
     

    - https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-samsung-is-responsible-for-20-of-south-koreas-economy/260552/

    In the early 1990s, believing that Samsung Group was overly focused on producing massive quantities of low-quality goods and that it was not prepared to compete in quality, Lee famously said in 1993 "Change everything except your wife and kids" and true to his word attempted to reform the profoundly Korean culture that had pervaded Samsung until this point. Foreign employees were brought in and local employees were shipped out as Lee tried to foster a more international attitude to doing business.
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kun-hee#Samsung

    I understand the prominence of Samsung in Korea. I think you fail to see that it’s irrelevant to the original discussion.

    Read More
  149. map says:
    @Anonymous
    Yes, I'm familiar with Asians being eligible for minority business loans. I don't think they're relevant to the examples of South Asians I cited. South Asians don't seem to under-perform according to your definition of real world performance, while other minorities, who are also eligible for minority business loans, do.

    That covers south asians as well. Here is a partial copy of the text:

    For purposes of determining eligibility to receive MBDA services, an MBE is defined as a business concern that is owned or controlled by the following persons or groups of persons that are also U.S. citizens or resident aliens admitted for lawful admission to the United States: African Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, Native Americans (including Alaska Natives, Alaska Native Corporations and Tribal entities), Asian Indians and Hasidic Jews. See 15 CFR § 1400.1 and Executive Order 11625. It is important to note that there is no cross-cutting federal MBE classification and the above definition does not serve to establish eligibility for federal programs or services outside of those offered by MBDA.

    Soak that in for a moment. The federal government provides taxpayer money basically to nonwhites in America, even when they are legal residents.

    Legal residents?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    You can be as white as Jonah Hill and Miles Teller in "War Dogs" and claim to be Hasidic even if you wear your beard Miami Vice length and qualify for Minority Business Development breaks.
  150. @map
    That covers south asians as well. Here is a partial copy of the text:

    For purposes of determining eligibility to receive MBDA services, an MBE is defined as a business concern that is owned or controlled by the following persons or groups of persons that are also U.S. citizens or resident aliens admitted for lawful admission to the United States: African Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, Native Americans (including Alaska Natives, Alaska Native Corporations and Tribal entities), Asian Indians and Hasidic Jews. See 15 CFR § 1400.1 and Executive Order 11625. It is important to note that there is no cross-cutting federal MBE classification and the above definition does not serve to establish eligibility for federal programs or services outside of those offered by MBDA.
     
    Soak that in for a moment. The federal government provides taxpayer money basically to nonwhites in America, even when they are legal residents.

    Legal residents?

    You can be as white as Jonah Hill and Miles Teller in “War Dogs” and claim to be Hasidic even if you wear your beard Miami Vice length and qualify for Minority Business Development breaks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @map
    Steve,

    Is there a federal database of MDBE companies?
  151. map says:
    @Steve Sailer
    You can be as white as Jonah Hill and Miles Teller in "War Dogs" and claim to be Hasidic even if you wear your beard Miami Vice length and qualify for Minority Business Development breaks.

    Steve,

    Is there a federal database of MDBE companies?

    Read More

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